At the age of $52.00 he found himself confronting a steep learning curve despite his years as a top executive in the global hospitality industry what he found as he worked to get up to speed in the tech world was that. For one another in the workplace we have the opportunity to create a generational transfer of wisdom so that the wisdom doesn't flow just downhill it flows in both directions so. All of us can learn from each other. Joins us to discuss what he learned about ages from in tech and that's coming up next right after this. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington Stevens the Mendocino complex fire in Lake County California is now being called the state's largest ever the blaze has grown to nearly 284000 acres and is one of 18 major wildfires in California Cal Fire spokesman Scott McLean says the state's current fire season has been brutal We have over 14000 individuals the signs are very fires in the state that's most they've ever heard of and that comes from roughly 17 states and national guard Australia New Zealand McLean's has 200 active duty u.s. Soldiers from Joint Base Lewis McChord in Washington are being trained to help firefighters he says nearly 630000 acres have burned in California so far this year Rick Gates says he and his former business partner Paul man of Fort carried out an elaborate offshore tax evasion and fraud scheme Gates testified Monday a man of Forte's federal trial on tax evasion and bank fraud charges Gates says he also embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from that afford a one time Trump campaign chairman that may be harder for secret political donors to remain anonymous under ruling by a federal judge in Washington d.c. And Peter Overby reports that the decision appears to close a major loophole in campaign finance law and could curtail millions of dollars in secret funding for campaigns the case is mainly about social welfare organizations which solicit $6.00 and $7.00 figure contributions until now the Federal Election Commission has allowed donors to remain secret unless the earmark the money for specific ads but federal district chief judge Beryl Howell is throwing out that regulation ruling that it contradicts the law as Congress passed it no a bookbinders director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington which sued the f.e.c. Any of these nonprofit organizations that are spending money in politics are going to have to play by a new set of rules. Alice decision could be appealed and meanwhile donors for issue ads would still remain anonymous those are the ads that avoid using vote for vote against messages Peter Overby n.p.r. News Washington 4 people are confirmed dead and one is missing from a weekend plane crash near North America's highest mountain the look Manning member station Katie uname reports the crash site is in an area known as Thunder Mountain which the National Park Service describes as a knife edge ridge with steep slopes and loose rock it took a Denali National Park ranger suspended from one of the rescue helicopters to clear snow away from the 4 bodies all but one of the people on board the flight that crashed Saturday evening the names of the pilot and passengers have not yet been released key to aviation the company that owns the aircraft says its staff is grieving the loss of life and is cooperating fully with all responding agencies for n.p.r. News I'm Phillip Manning in Alaska you're listening to n.p.r. News. Iran is accusing the United States of reneging on the nuclear agreement that was signed by the Obama administration many sanctions eased under the landmark deal are now back in effect President Trump signed an executive order Monday to reimpose some economic sanctions on financial transactions to exert what the administration calls maximum pressure state run Saudi Airlines is suspending flights to Toronto it's the latest move in a growing diplomatic riff over women's rights activists being detained in Saudi Arabia the B.B.C.'s Paul Blake has more the flight cancellations are just one of several measures the kingdom is taking after Dick used Canada of violating its sovereignty auto was said last week that it was concerned by reports that several civil and women's rights activists had been detained in recent weeks since then relations have abruptly and rapidly deteriorated the Saudis have described Canada's comments as blatant interference in their domestic affairs they've suspended educational exchange programs kicked out the Canadian ambassador and banned any new trade between the countries the B.B.C.'s Paul Blake reporting Indonesian soldiers have pulled a man alive from the rubble of a large mosque that was flattened by an earthquake thousands of survivors are still waiting for aid and tourists stranded at camp are camping out at beaches and in the lobbies of damaged hotels the north of the island of Lombok has been devastated by the quake which had a magnitude of 7.0 that struck Sunday night and rescuers are faced with thousands of damaged buildings while struggling to reach all the affected areas this is n.p.r. News. Support for n.p.r. Comes from Dreamwave maker of luxury massage chairs from Japan with shiatsu point its action and 16 program to massages including morning night and stretch sessions retailers nationwide more Dreamwave chair dot com and the ne Casey Foundation. Thank. You. I'm going. With the I'm. Welcome back to forum I'm Michael Krasny and when Chip Conley started his career at air b.n. B. At the age of 52 he brought with him decades of experience as a top executive in the hotel industry he quickly realized however that he had a lot to learn about life at a tech start up where he was twice the age of most of the employees he joins us this hour in studio to share his insights on ages I'm in Silicon Valley and how Boomers and millennial can actually learn from one another His forthcoming book which will be on September's called wisdom at work the making of a modern elder welcome to come on Michael it's great to be back and to have you back here lots of talk about in this book but let's get right to the point here this word elder It kind of. Has a strange effect on me I members interviewing Alice Walker a number of years ago and she said Michael you and I are elders and I kind of recoiled when I heard the word you know because we like to keep our youth preserved in our sweet pretty youth all too often flies away from us and all that and the word elder as a signifier seemed heavy it's like when another former student I refer to me as venerable and I thought at the same kind of recall as something about age that makes us feel that way yes that gets right to a lot of the heart of what you're talking about Sure well 1st of all one of my goals is to liberate the word elder from elderly not to say that being elderly is a bad thing it's just actually a later stage of life in my opinion the average age of a person going into a nursing home 50 years ago was 65 today it's 81 so with longevity we've created a new increased you know midlife so midlife used to be a midlife crisis is a word that came our phrase that came out of 165 and it's partly because nobody knew what to do with mid life because longevity was 47 in 2900 and have a 77 in 2000 and so long story short is midlife is a new thing but it's probably for now from 35 to 75 and I think being an elder is the latter part of your midlife where you actually realise you have some wisdom to offer as opposed to. Elderly which is when you're in a state of later in life which you still may have wisdom but you baby it in a place where a little bit more independence so elder implies that your mind is associated very strongly with the nature of wisdom acquired through experience and age period correct although I think the modern elder is as much an internal as they are a mentor because there's no doubt in the past elder was sort of like the venerable elder or the Rev You had a reverence for the elder today it's more about relevance than reverence in the sense that I think that an elder needs to have some clue about what's happening in the world otherwise their wisdom may not land very far from them because people feel like they are from a cold different era so I think it's a combination of how do you make yourself relevant by being a great beginner's mind learner while at the same time I offered him some timeless wisdom that I think frankly younger people are still thirsty for maybe sometimes wisdom to have given the different areas in the different cultures and thank you get into your book about that culture gap which is pretty significant when you think about and you went into this job at 52 sort of as a cultural anthropologist but also they're talking about shipping product you don't know what the heck they were talking yeah it is fun to see you know I took a little bit of philosophy in college 0 comps and so I'm sitting in a room with engineers is my 3rd day and clearly the unusual guy in the room and the leader of the meeting who's 25 wizard engineer he turned to me and he said if you shipped a feature and nobody used it did it really ship. Sort of like the tree in the forest I didn't know how to respond I was in deep shit. Because I didn't know what it meant to ship a feature I didn't know that product was in fact the website not the homes of the apartments so I had to really right size my ego and be humble enough to be the dumbest person in the room a lot yeah but you felt like an internet you put it but at the same. Time you quickly realize that you had a lot to offer in the way of emotional intelligence that maybe a lot of these young folks who are staring at their faces for too long periods of time in the business really care or tearing at their apparatuses I mean I'm going to touch that one but I think what I would say is the e.q. For d.q. Trade agreement is to me like the inner generational potluck what I mean by that is as you get older you actually do pick up some. Wisdom and how to recognize that pattern recognition around humans so as you understand humans more your emotional intelligence grows younger people have the d.q. The digital intelligence and the idea is you create a workplace where there's a mutual mentoring that can go on in both directions. That wisdom flowed from old the young and today I think it's actually in both directions and it makes sense since we have 5 generations in the workplace from your metaphor is fine wine as opposed to a carton of milk with the expiration date or a should date on it I understand that although part of me says whether a lot of these elders who don't necessarily deserve or haven't acquired the kind of wisdom that you're attributing Well I agree with you I think we all get older we don't necessarily all get elder. That what I mean by that is I actually think it's something you have to harvest and cultivate and what does that mean I think in the modern era means that you have to evolve your identity for so many people one of the biggest challenges they have as an older person surrounded by younger people is they sort of expect everybody to just have reverence for them and they actually are so attached to maybe the historical perspective what of what an elder deserves and today I think it's more about learning I think when people saw that I was open to asking very naive why and what if questions they were open to the idea that Chip's a learner and therefore he's humble enough to be somebody I could approach and I was approached by over 100 employees in the company. To be a mentor of some in some role over the 5 and a half years I've been at Mt Lynch also put it why and what as opposed to how and why why I did it excuse me as opposed to how why and what if questions are kind of questions a 4 year old asks and you don't expect it necessarily from a senior leader what you hear from senior leaders are the optimization questions of what and how so I think being that beginner's mind and being willing to learn a lot later in life you know Peter Drucker lived to age 95 most famous management theorist of all time and he was all about every 2 years he would create he'd find a new subject he's going to be curious about that had nothing to do with his work so I think being catalytically curious is a sign of being a modern elder I think like you I was a long time in my er Drucker's And he also got it was ahead of the learning curve of our knowledge workers Way back when well you know thank you for serving up that softball because I think knowledge workers are still relevant he talked he actually came up with that phrase in 1990 day be a year before I was born but today I think knowledge is all about what's in the computers so it's more about wisdom workers and Ken Dychtwald who's Bay Area guy and Sun friend c.e.o. Of Age Wave created that phrase wisdom worker 30 years ago but I think it's more relevant today more than ever and the idea is if if a computer can spit out all kinds of answers to you who's the wise person who can ask you a kind of questions it'll be catalytic in your life so you're an older guy you're going into a company where they're all young and digital and you can be a sage to them or you can at least make some inner personal connections or intergenerational connections that are very important at the same time that you're being a student and learning I found myself thinking about this sort of spinning off in a lot of number of ways because I've always been a strong advocate that people who are tired to be go back to elementary school learning from the kids and not only that the teaching the kids and especially those who are living on a decent pension they can. You know provided an enormous public service voluntary There are many Experience Corps there many or organizations on core dot org to actually do that and in fact in fact why don't we build new seniors living centers next door to daycare centers you know there's a lot of programs that are doing that around the world there's a program in Brazil where Brazilian high school students are learning English from Chicago people who live in a Chicago senior living community and so they just do a weekly one on one call between the teenager in Brazil and the senior in go there's also maybe I'm serving up another softball her but there's also a whole sensibility that you've certainly in many ways a pit of my eyes and comes across in your work about being a disruptor I know that word is used pretty freely and maybe even for Miss Chris Lee but you use an example that I think is a good one of Netflix they said they disrupted blockbuster obviously when they disrupted themselves when they had streaming services and so I was looking toward ways of disrupting remember we talked once about air and I want to talk about her being be with you we talked about her being and be taking on a whole new attitude toward conversation about this to reaching out to the hotel industry where ya came from and making some kind of pact with the and so they would serve each other in a dual way yeah it's as the only person in the building in the early days of Erin be done not by the way I came along about 5 and a half years after the company had started the 3 founders did a great job starting the company and I'm but they're all 21 to 23 years younger than me and didn't have any experience in the travel or hospitality industry so one of the things that I knew that is going to be a disruptor we better figure out a cordial way to build bridges to other people in our industry and so we had the c.e.o. Of Marriott and his senior team and a variety of other companies help accept or come to our headquarters not with the intention of us negotiating anything but for a day and a half for us to. Teach them about home sharing and for us to teach them about how do you market to millennial what that would be kind of like Lifton Hoover teaching taxi cab drivers all the other here's the big difference there I'll just say I think that without spending a lot of time talking over because those are different companies that is a bit of a you know they're in direct competition with taxis hotels and everybody are not exactly direct competition because the average length of stay for an air b.n. B. Guest is twice as long as for hotel so part of what the hotels want to learn is how do we address the fact that there's a growing number of digital nomads people who because everyone because of a wife by a connection and they've got a phone or a laptop they can go work and live anywhere and those people are staying longer periods of time and they're not appropriate for hotel so I think a lot of hotel companies want to learn that business and my point of us is let's teach them and why not why not create It's hard to it's hard to be the villain when we're where the money is a teacher when we're putting the welcome mat out we're talking to chip Connelly and the strategic adviser for hospitality in leadership now they're being be has a forthcoming book called wisdom at work the making of a modern elder and talking about elders in the whole concept of elders working between somehow digital intelligence an emotional intelligence that comes with sometimes with age we like to think more frequently. I was also interested in talking to you about air b.n. B. And another from another point of view if we could just touch as here because Roger Cohen had an article I don't know if you saw yes in the Sunday Times and he was saying he was comparing air b.n. B. To NATO I mean seems like a stretch for probably for many people's minds but there it was and there was the argument he was saying you know you're crossing borders like nobody else's and you're making the reality that you could be kind of universal in hospitality you know your specific area yeah I think you know it was I think a little bit of a stretch in terms of his argument but I think it was certainly well appreciated by us in the sense that at a time when borders are going. Up and you know walls are going up and a lot of rhetoric is certainly up. There b. And b. Is a company that has thrived and grown primarily because over half of our guests are international travelers so we are we do well when the world feels like a safer place and we want to help turn strangers into friends all around the world so in some ways we are different than the way the world is today and yet we're still growing and thriving and getting much larger and we're building relationships across borders so I think it I mean it you know it's sort of a commercial version of the Peace Corps on some level but by no means are we going to be negotiating any arms treaties. The Peace Corps though was really dedicated to you know higher principle no doubt and even selflessness this is a profit making organization I was struck by what Brian Chesky. Said Who is the c.e.o. Of fed and co-founder in the forward to your book says you know you go to a different place and you can get outside of yourself and you can you know change in some ways and Emerson comes back to be the Everson I know you take you wherever you go you know which is sort of what I've always believed but nevertheless there is that concept that a lot of people have that you're living in somebody else's domicile you're experiencing the world through kind of living within those quarters and so forth and it's even alters consciousness I think it is you know I'll call out a couple elders Michael and Debbie Campbell have been on the road for 5 years now they started when he was 68 and she was 58 and now obviously they're 5 years old and that they've gone to 200 state in 200 air b.n. B. Is around the world in 80 countries and I think when you talk to them and they were featured in New York Times a couple weeks ago what you hear from them is their whole world view changed their sense of what does it mean to be the other and. Sense of empathy for just others all over the world and so is that why people stay in their b. And b. No people stay in her b. And b. Often because it's cheap and it's you know more space but the part that I think is the collateral benefit of the air being the experience if you critical ation ship in a local neighborhood with the host is you get that sense of connection that sense of being able to belong anywhere which is not necessarily the feeling you have in a generic Holiday Inn That looks just like the one you know halfway around the world so I think the idea that you get to understand the local culture is a key part of what people are looking for back in the era when I started with Eco tells in the mid 1980 s. That's exactly where to go tells were and actually are to me just took it 10 steps further with the horror stories we hear I mean is it more prevalent in hotels then an air b.n. B. Or more prevalent air b.n. B. Or somebody comes in and you know like the rock star type of thing wrecks the place you know I think you you heard that a lot in the early days of air b.n. B. You don't hear it nearly as much and I think it's partly because our trust and safety team has just gotten better and better about you know making sure the bad actors so to speak who who abuse the platform are on the platform but it happens everywhere I mean it when some people are outside their home or frankly when they're in their home sometimes they trash their homes so you know bad behavior will happen everywhere I think the key for us is to just do our best to try to be a positive spirit in the community now I know there are a lot of listeners who have feelings one way or the other about air b.n. B. Or maybe questions about it but mostly like to hear from you about the idea of modern elders What do you think about that concept and have you learned something from a coworker who's older or for that matter younger than you are and just this idea of intergenerational connectedness. Let me hear from some of our listeners and let me give you the phone number that you can join us at the toll free 806-733-6786 you can join us right now we do invite your calls again it's 866-733-6786 the number to call. You can also join us by e-mailing us forum at k.q.e.d. Dot org Or go to our website k.q.e.d. Dot org slash form click on the segment or tweet us or Twitter handle is at k.q.e.d. Form you kind of alluded to this before to some extent but what kind of major things have you learned other than shipping products from your hair color Well I think I understand the culture you know the one things interesting is there's a great Rumi quote When in doubt you know through a Rumi quote in so Rumi the poet said long ago my life can be summed up in 3 phases I was raw I became cooked and then I burned those 3 faces sort of define the 3 stage life that we've had you learn until you're 25 you earn until you're 65 and then you retire one of the things I learned from young people is that 3 stage life that we grew up with Michael doesn't exist anymore the idea that you're just going to learn for a period time and then earn for a period time it's all age stratified and then you're going to retire on some golf course these younger people are like they're doing it all at the same time there's things programs like remote year where people go for a month with a cohort of $25.00 or 30 other people they go for a month in one place and they learn about that place but they're all working at the same time they all have jobs or they're entrepreneurs so they're learning and earning and retiring at the same time so I think it's time for us to realise that the 3 stage life if we're going to live to 100 probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense some time off to talk to you about the offer Deepak Chopra made to me to write a book on Rumi with him or so ago I went to the Rumi with whirling dervish festival in Konya Turkey 5 years ago which was fascinating Well you're more of a physician out of than I am I well I don't know about that I'm going to Turkey have to talk to you though about speaking about learning from the young you've learned a hell of a lot from Procter and Gamble I mean not to give them. Away but one statement that I love you made was the only 3 institutions that continue to promote people. The higher ranks are the Catholic Church the military of Procter and Gamble but they do things differently there just in terms of the elder role Yeah it's very interesting I flew to Cincinnati to their headquarters and I'm not a huge Procter and Gamble fan in fact I thought well what I've learned there but the thing that is interesting is that they have a very strong culture of having the senior level leaders come from within the ranks so institutional knowledge is important there but the thing that's interesting is they also have an archive that is as much about the institutional edge as what they learned from it and so they've created these masters roles so it's sort of like modern elders masters whose role over time they have less of a core collection of things that their scope is responsible for and their role over time is more to be the institutional knowledge person in the organization who shares it with new employees who shares it with you know teams are having troubles so I think this idea of modern elders being the people in an organization who can almost be like an in-house coach and we spend over a $1000000000.00 a year in the us an extra mile coaches and companies why not actually look at some of our existing employees who are getting into their fifty's and sixty's and have a lot of knowledge help them become the internal coach within the company to Connally with us author of forthcoming book wisdom at work and that's at like you see in the ad on the Internet or an email the Soto's the making of a modern elder and let's go right to our calls and not Terry here let's begin Chris with you good morning. Good morning great conversation gentlemen thanks for having I wanted to offer the perspective of a member of Generation x. . A long time in the workforce took many years off after 2008 and wound up working in an outfit that has younger folks millennial and I guess you call them silent generation. Very markedly noticed. People are 20 people addicted to appoint someone to 40 to come in and start working and it's interesting because I am clearly elder to some of these kids and they're also . Very junior assistant role to some of the older cats who went a lot to offer but they they come from a 180 you know business technology perspective and. You know they're fireflies and it's a strange place to be from in it's very interesting and rewarding kids and cats I love that young kids and they all cats Well there's what you're describing is our future it's in your case it's in your present but the idea that we have 5 generations in the workplace for the 1st time is not going away and it's partly because people are going to work longer. And that's why I say midlife which used to be a crisis is now the midlife marathon because instead of from 45 to 65 it goes from 35 to 75 because the silent generation who you talk about people in their seventy's and they are going to continue to work and that why they can do that because frankly they don't have the savings to actually to to actually retire or in some cases they just want to continue to be relevant so you are a good facilitator there we're coming up on a break but when we come back we'll take more your calls and e-mails and again you can join us by calling us or e-mailing us or going to our website or Facebook page or tweet us so want to touch on one thing a Porton part of this modern elder notion that you're putting forward here is an idea that was mastered by someone who I think we both were very close to in different ways George Leonard who talked about mastery I mean mastery is a real big part of it yeah I think so as you get older you not only learn your own Personal Mastery of how you create last year but you also learn environmental mastery which means you know which habitats you will thrive them. Talking. We are talking about being a modern elder we do want to hear from you and again toll free number. Comes for you can join the program at 866-733-6786 You can also join us by e-mailing us though for. Going to our website. Forum click on the segment or Twitter handles at k.q.e.d. Form and when we return we'll hear more of what you have to say. More. On Michael Krasny. Right now on Monday night let's hear from our Rodgers he has a traffic evening it's all talk about rubric this evening already you're going to find some heavy slow traffic in the southbound one a one Spencer Avenue to the north end of Golden Gate Bridge they're also doing some strike. On the eastbound Richmond Center fell bridge from Sir Francis Drake over toward their toll plaza till 5 am every traffic eastbound. Pass various lanes closed down for paving worked out until 5 am. Q.e.d. a News report brought to you by the Crohn's and Colitis foundation support for k.q.e.d. Comes from the from Comcast sticks finity Internet delivers in home why 5 for all devices in the home plus customers receive comprehensive protection with Norton security suite and Stanford continuing study on campus and online courses sciences creative writing and professional development for registration opens Aug 20th Continuing Studies Stanford dot edu our beaches are disappearing 2 thirds of Southern California sandy shore could be gone this century but that's not all you know what else depends on sand roads buildings computer screens and phones and it's running out what do we bury our heads in then who's robbing the sandbanks next time. More about sand and other topics tonight in less than 30 minutes it's one a at 11 o'clock after forum on k.q.e.d. Public Radio. It will be mostly clear inland with the exception of Hasan smoke especially after midnight particularly in the north bay in the East Bay mostly cloudy along the coast with fog returning especially after midnight lows in the fifty's partly to mostly sunny tomorrow after morning fog and clouds smoke and haze again in parts of the North Bay in the East Bay on Tuesday ice from the sixty's to the upper ninety's this is forum a Michael Krasny we're talking about ages I'm in modern elders and a whole range of topics related to the older folks among us making connections of all kinds with the younger folks among us particularly when it comes to work in different platforms which is what our guest has been involved in recent years should say to Conley started out the hotel industry with a bunch of boutique hotels and did very well thank you and then moved to 52 to work for air b.n. B. And he's been there and remains there to this as a strategic advisor for hospitality and leadership he's also the author of a forthcoming book which I believe can be preordered it will be out in September it's called wisdom at work the making of a modern elder and let's go to more your calls and let's go to Berkeley and welcome Drew good morning. Hi good morning thank you very much I was interested in the. Idea of senior housing paired with childcare I'm a community college teacher and one thing I've noticed in the classroom is the tremendous benefit of having older students and younger students together there's an instant mentorship that takes place in conversation it's tremendously valuable so I was wondering if. Your guest would comment on the idea of modern elders in the educational environment Thank you I'll take my answer off the time thank you for the question sure you know there's actually a school in Ohio that there's a seniors home Heigho that actually had 5 extra bedrooms and they offered it to local music students for a local music college so that the students got free housing and got to actually perform once a week and get to know the elders the elders or the people who were living in the seniors home and the elders actually got to have that little dose of some youth amongst them and there's no doubt we could use more of that there's a lot to be learned across generations and the more we do that both in workplaces but also in society the better because we've really created quite an age segregated life especially with this 3 stage life of learn you know why can't we learn why can't we go to a gap year in our fifty's what part of the reason is because it's hard to Ford and so how can we create societal ie the ability for people to actually have money that allows them to take in their mid life the ability to take a week or a month or maybe even a whole year off to imagine how they're going to repurpose the rest of their life. So also a lot to be said for you know people who are in homes for the aged who are nursing homes and so forth take kids in there and actually have them interact I mean kids who for example are longing for not only some wisdom but maybe a grandfather surrogate of some kind a grandmother surrogate no doubt I mean there are a lot of ways of this kind of connect the dots and let me bring more of our callers aboard we go next to you Christine you're on a morning. Quick morning Chip might recognize my voice this is Christina to work for him yes what has he just been God I mean yes. I'm thinking about what I worked for you chip and how you created an environment you were certainly my bets were but you're also my my contemporaries terms of our each but there were other people we worked with in the environment there were our elders if I'd mention their names kill us but. They were testable and there was there was. Offered very rich to me because of the physical space I think you created remember signing didn't exist as much now people are working from home like myself you know people working in silos we're asked to do with you with companies to ensure there's a physical space where some of my guy can learn from a wise old there but almost no froom the technology you know savvy social media savvy younger generation that's a great question Christine So you're right I think the ability for people have the flexibility to work from home is a beautiful modern age perk in the job but it also creates some level of isolation and just doing a zoom or Scott collar people isn't quite the same so my recommendation to companies that do that is to offer that is to figure out how do you convene more often than you normally would with groups of teams in person if you have people remote because that you know are mirror our mirror neurons like to dance together and that's hard to do on a phone call or a video call so I'd say that's one thing that's another thing is as new people are coming in an organization how do you use some of the institutional wisdom of elders in their own station to actually welcome them and talk about the history of the company so that those new people can actually understand the cultural wisdom of the organization and Christine thank you so much he was from the son of a good mentor a good boss. Crissy Sally I think she's gone oh she is that Ok it obviously Saturday where I was just getting confirmation and validation for you tell me something I know when she talks about the lack of physical space like there used to be there's also a different kind of rite of passage used to have you growing up me growing up well let's know that society can and communities have historically created rites of passage when people are going through transition so puberty mitzvah Bar-Mitzvah Kinston euro from adolescence to adulthood commencement graduation from high school or college you can get married you have a wedding you don't have babies if a baby shower you die you have a funeral but between baby shower and funeral they are nothing and so what we need to realize is that frankly in 1900 when people died at age 47 midlife was 23 or 24 so they really didn't need to be rituals but there are a lot of transitions that people go through a midlife today whether milestones to their milestones their milestones What do you do it 50 you might have a birthday party you know it's up there but there really aren't rich the idea of ritual which is meant to say help support people through a period of transition doesn't really exist in midlife so. We decided you know I've been I've worn the had of the for profit elder now it's right of even then at air b.n. B. But I'm wearing the hat of the social entrepreneur entrepreneur now by creating something called the Modern elder Academy it's the 1st midlife wisdom school in the world dedicated to creating rituals and celebrations and for people who go through this period with a collection of other people so it's it's an hour north of Kabul San Lucas and half the people are on scholarship and so a social worker and an investment banker might walk down the beach together and actually share that that education with each other so that it's a weeklong and a 2 week long program core curriculum is just all about how do people repurpose themselves in the 2nd half of their life still walking the walk and I still. Well you know it's what's interesting I love about this is I'm about to go tell your so I love hospitality and so it's sort of a boutique hotel experience but I also as you know I've been on the board of the excellent Institute for you know 7 or 8 years and I've been a teacher there for almost a dozen years so I love personal growth and then this book this idea of how do we help people move into this role of being the elder there or the emerging elder The average age of the people coming through the programs only 52 years old but it's been beautiful in the 1st half of the year we did the beta and now it opens to the public in November and people can see it at modern elder Academy dot org And you can see the website and we welcome you to sign up and apply with all that you're doing and with the new book interviewing people would say You're saying. Well you know I think I'm staying relevant you know staying young Let's let's let's take the I'm going to call you out for some ages in here and actually she said people would say oh yes I said listen if Ashton Applewhite was here with me right now she'd say she did the 10 x. The ted talk a couple years ago on ages I'm staying young is true I think there's an element we say that staying young means that in some ways we're not maybe appreciating our elder roots I think that one of the things that's true is that our physical peak as humans is in our twenty's as adults our financial peak for many people especially in Silicon Valley is maybe our mid to mid forty's to mid fifty's so our From a physical peaks in our twenty's our financial peak is our forty's our human peak the time in our life when we most actually come into our hall as a human is after that and so yes I may I may be staying young in certain ways but I'm hopefully actually. I don't know blossoming into and I don't know I'm elderflower. It's just a new avatar that's all it is how you know it might be I think the thing we need to get clear of though is if people are feeling irrelevant after about a. Aged 35 in Silicon Valley or Africa after age 45 in the general population what do we do with them if they're going to live to 100 you know I'm 57 if you go I go to a longevity website and says here's how long I'm going to live based upon my genes and how I do my life that says I mean I live to 98 so if I mean live to 98 and I'm 57 I am less than halfway through my adult life if you start counting at 18 which means that when you're 50 your life's not over it's really just beginning I remember Stewart Brand who started the Whole Earth Catalog telling me when he turned 50 this is only midway and he was talking particular about changes in biotechnology and so forth I'm sorry when he turned 60 so this is only midlife for me because all these changes are taking place and I expect to live much longer you got people like Ray Kurzweil and googled now you know looking for I don't know what they're doing there reversing the enzyme process or something you know this may not necessarily philosophically be all that great an idea because it depends and I think you're intimating this in this is probably where we are in agreement depends on the quality of life it does and if you can't get a job after age 40 who wants to live forever. So here's the interesting thing there's a great book that came up recently called the happiness curve and talks about something that's been talked about a lot which is the idea that there's a you curve in happiness and what happens is after about mid twenty's it starts to go down your thirty's goes down $45.00 is about as bad as it gets so for those of you out there for $45.00 I feel for you that was a tough period for me. And then starting in your late forty's and early fifty's it gets better and people in their seventy's are happier than their sixty's who are happier than the fifty's in her happier than the forty's so why is that why is it that people get happier later in life and the number one thing to actually point out is that people actually stop caring what other people think and they get better at editing their lives we spend the 1st half of our life accumulating things and roles and responsibilities and we spend the 2nd half of our life editing and editing process we get clear on what's important to us. Here's a listener who brings up air b.n. B. Let me get a response to this how has it Linda writes How us air b.n. B. Dealt with the profiling and discrimination experienced by African-American guests and host it's been reported on as a former air b.n. B. Host and guest I have felt both sides of that you know we have a couple of in 3 years now ago Eric Holder in 2 years ago Eric Holder former attorney general to the Obama administration was brought on to help us with this because this was an issue on the platform wasn't that air b.n. B. As the company was necessarily the discriminating party it was actually people on the platform so we did a 3 month study with some people for of write it different and folks who actually also helped with that and we came up with a new set of rules and community rules and since then we've actually seen much less of racial profiling by our hosts but we just continue have to have to get better at this because in many ways a b. And b. Is a mirror for the social positives and ills of society as well. I read a comment from Valerie who says there is nothing new about having multiple generations in the workplace when I joined Chevron and 1985 I was in my twenty's and there were people there 30405060 isn't even a few in their seventies the older people were definitely mentoring younger people it's called managing in training this is not new this is very new because it was the sixty's and 7 year olds and 50 year olds who are trained the 20 year olds today it doesn't both directions it is not just a hierarchical from old the young transfer of wisdom the young have wisdom to transfer back to the old and that's called reverse mentoring but mutual mentoring when it gets really interesting is when it goes in both directions with you know with somebody else and that's what I did with Brian Brian Brian mentored me as the c.e.o. Of the company in ways that around digital intelligence and cultural new trends and I think helped him with leadership and strategy and emotional intelligence and there's Rocco says you believe certain cultures like Japan maybe Scandinavian countries have a deeper understanding and respect for elders Why is or isn't that the case that absolutely there's no doubt that the u.s. Is one of the most elder unfriendly places in the world and Japan is one of the most elder friendly What's interesting though is with the growth and of digital around the world you're starting to see some cultures like Korea which is has historically had a very reverent approach to elders and parents actually seeing the suicide rate of elders in Korea has spiked I think is maybe 3 times what it used to be personally because the reference is now being paid to your Samsung phone in Korea not to your elders and as us as a result there has been this period of time where people older are actually feeling forgotten and so I think that you know each culture is in the process of figuring out how to not that fascination with the new digital with the wisdom of the elders . It's a big question. And there's friend who says have to work in business and technology for many years sometimes I feel that my age defines how people view me things that help avoid clothes that say I'm no longer in the game keep your interest broaden your vocabulary up to date throw those old clothes out. And Isabel says can the growing modern elder movement learn from the me too movement. I don't know that's I'd love to understand that when a little bit further. I think if there's anything about me too in the modern elder movement it's about having radical transparency and I think so I think in terms of the person before that I think the idea of making sure that you look younger is not a bad thing to do but if that's your primary way of thinking that you're going to succeed in the workplace today then you're playing on somebody else's playing field you're an older person you have something to offer because you have some wisdom that you've actually generated over the years find a habitat find an environmental mastery so you can work in a habitat where they actually want to hear it kindly as against and his forthcoming book is wisdom and work the making of a modern elder And our next caller is Beth Beth welcome Hi Thanks so much it was May be here that chick was on today what a surprise I have a lot of things I would love to ask but I think all focus on I do read the ms letter and I enjoy reading it when I receive it and what it does bring up in me is the idea of marketing and you know there are so many opportunities today that there's a lot of emphasis on marketing and promotion and that you know people are working so well then you know you really have to get yourself out there you know with all of the self promotion and social media and marketing how people kind of maintain a balance between both meaning and kind of that we go and look what I've done and I'm very kind of a humble modest you know quiet warrior. A great question I hope I hope I do an Ok job of it I don't think you can tell me it is hard. What I'll say is this is I think special in Silicon Valley that hubris of youth the confidence of a young 20 something. Entrepreneur who has to go get venture capital money is it's all about how how much. Confidence they're there exerting So I think part of our life is moving from hubris to humility and from ego to soul that I think that is just the nature of life forever that's been happening way before we had digital devices What's changed is the idea of you know having your own channel your own channel is your fears your Facebook page your or whatever form of social media you use and I think that the thing that more than anything else that we need is beyond hubris and humility is just a sense of humor and I think when people take themselves too seriously in how they promote themselves without actually having some sense of humor about it they lose some of the humanity in the process so I'll do my best to continue to have a sense of humor I know Michael well and Beth we thank you for the call and this next caller's a voice we both know and admire conduct will hike how well. You guys. Get there for you yeah I mean I'm enjoying the show it's great to hear you guys talking about the subject I got a question for you Jeff 1st of all I want to weigh in on that if you would. 'd take it as a compliment thank you Michel I think I think you need to let me turn that corner but here's my question chip. Art to being an effective modern elder or you're just walking around telling everybody what stock and hoping that they think you're funny. Is definitely not talking about Woodstock on the night you think is good sex may be making a comeback the number one quality of an elder is presence. The opposite opposite of presence absence absence is what happens and with our with our devices so being present and having someone feel like they're being listened to I was in Utah the last couple days at the Summit Series which is a bunch of millennial young people and before I was giving a talk to them on wisdom there was an owl there's a there was an eagle owl outside somebody actually had and that and the bird or who had the Alice said the thing about owls is they listen Wow So it's an interesting Alice are known for wisdom and so I think listening is the number one quality and not just listening to the story but listening for the story being able to actually see the pattern recognition and understand the threat of what someone saying to you because you may have had in your life a similar situation and you don't have to tell the situation all that much but you certainly can offer the wisdom of what you learn from your experience and so I think that's the number one quality can is definitely not about you know having a pulpit and you know spouting wisdom it's really listening to people and then tailor making what you have inside of you to offer them a Greek and. Yeah I think I'm captivated by have tip is kind of sculpting a new way of thinking about all of this one last little question on the following. Do these younger people you've been exposed to such an incredible cast of characters and the spec revolution to put these younger people because you know had to help them make more money or because they have a potion at college and serve because you've been to the rodeo before or you know people what they want from you you think in addition to being prepped. Well 1st of all there's a number of studies that show that about 75 percent of millennia olds are looking for a mentor so what they want from a mentor they want somebody who's going to be able to help them to build their awareness both it's 2 sides to it there's both the developmental process of how they actually become a better human and then there's actually the technical skills at times what they're looking for is you know how and you know who the No Who is your network the know how is technical skills that make you help you to be better is a safe to say though that a lot of them are not necessarily good listeners see you yes occasionally but honestly if someone's not a great listener and they're looking for my help then you know I tell them that relatively early on. Ken good to hear from you who. Think Thanks for calling Here's Giotto asks it sounds like your guest had a skill set gained after years in the hotel business that was needed by the 20 somethings who started their b. And b. However not every person over 50 or 60 has that kind of experience or skill set talking about the modern elder does not reflect the reality of looking for a job when you're past the age of young and cute Well this is part of the reason we created the modern elder Academy you know we've had a 153 people went to the beta program the 1st 6 months of this year and they're not all former C.E.O.'s there are social workers and teachers and all kinds of people and so the program and hopefully the book really speaks to the idea that once you start to mine your mastery and understand what it is that you have actually built as a set of talents and skills in the world once you understand that yourself it's easier for you to articulate that and find the habitat where people are going to appreciate that so yes my situation was unusual because Brian Chesky came looking for me I wasn't looking for a job or b. And b. But I totally agree that that's the future the future is how do we help to. Help people to feel that sense of right. Evans and that's something that sense of repurpose in themselves for the 2nd half of their life matters says I've written about aging for the past 6 years and the response I get from people when I tell them what I do is always the same getting old sucks how do we change the way older adults perceive themselves in today's world overwhelmingly ruled by youth Yeah good question is why I called you out on that you know you're getting younger. Let me just start with Elder the word elder again I sought out talked about Elder versus elderly I also say also say that sometimes you have to take back a word if you know Yankee was the word the derogatory word the the car the Brits called the colonists they called them dandy Yankees being black in the South was a drug a trait word from the whites and so and then Malcolm Malcolm x. And others took back the word of Black is Beautiful queer was not the word I wanted to hear called that was called You know in on the playground when I was growing up and now there's a queer movement and there's a whole idea that being queer is to be proud about that you also stigmatize a word by using it that's right so I that's what I that's what I'm trying to do here with Elder I'm trying to say it isn't the old version of elders not the Reverent elder It's the modern elder who's more relevant and the point of this is deciding to own the word and to say that's what we are and then to show up with hopefully some some kind of positive role models for it is I think the start of us actually helping to telling people to realize that you could aspire to maturity but you will concede that a lot of old people older people elderly people are generally unhappy and they're unhappy because in many cases they're bored or they're impaired or they're you know receding in terms of their life I tell it in the in their purpose in life I mean unfortunately there's a lot of depression there's no programs of Oh yeah there's no doubt that that physical decline is part of what happens after a certain point I mean less so maybe today than in the past but the fact is that when you're playing on the playing field where. The only way you look at yourself is physically yes you will see that life is a process of decline but there's a lot of other ways you can look at your life well it's the old my mother used to talk about maybe yours there too you know the cup being half empty or half full and we'll take some more calls let me go next to you Jim You're on Morning. Hey good morning my good morning to one the one who wonderful conversation I'm calling in just since say I am 77 years old a p.h.p. Some college and my wife is 75 and we work as exec and in America in the tech industry we get we have heard so much from the one time we've given them a great deal that big not have otherwise. Thank you you know I asked someone the other day the following question who's about your age I said when did you make the best decisions in your life was it 75 or 50 or 25 and he said really like in the just one second 75 I made the best decisions in my life now because I know myself better so I say that only so the venture capitalists who are listening to this right now can hear that because actually just because I was 25 and brilliant doesn't necessarily mean they have the life experience so why don't you what do you match that 25 year old who's got a brilliant new technology with someone twice their age who can actually help provide some of the emotional intelligence that can help the company succeed and thank you Jim for that call and I've got a listener I guess may be calling you out here Chip Please break the habit of thinking of the variety of generations as consisting of boomers and millennial xor 7 a lot of unique insight to teach both of those generations completely agree as the as the person said earlier the guy in the workplace who is the ex or yeah and in many ways the exes have learned to facilitate the folks on the other side we talk a lot about boomers and millenniums because they're the larger generations. And the issues can maybe even help bring some of those connections to bear and bring fruit to fruition Liz could Peter our next Peter thanks for waiting you're on My pleasure good morning I was impressed with your revert your comparison to. The Peace Corps commercial version of the Peace Corps and spending a little time on your website just now I was impressed with the air being. Citizen page and the community compact so I just wondered if you have any explicit partnerships with other non were with nonprofit organizations and particularly one that might promote good civic values for 1st better behavior yes there's a there's a whole social good. Division and department within every me that actually has great relationships with nonprofits all over the world as well as some global one so I think if you actually looked up social good air b.n. B. You might be able to learn more about that and I thank you for the coming of seconds left Jeff want to know how you define wisdom Jeff go ahead. Jeff do I have you. Yes Hi How are you Ok Ok great yeah because that I've been with you this you know and it's really great show and I notice that when people talk about with them I never really get a good working definition of it yet give us a really good working definition of with them here's a rookie Yes pattern recognition over time based upon a combination of confidence and doubt. There you go you got your definition Jeff and thank you for the call and thank you Chip Conley always good Thank you Michel great to be here Chip Kelly has a book coming out in September it's called wisdom at work made making of a modern elder and he strategic advisor for hospitality leadership for b. And b. And tomorrow in this hour we're going to be talking about Russia among other things with Norman Solomon and I hope you will join us for that thank you for joining us today for all of us here at k.q.e.d. Michael Christ. Funds for the production of forum are provided by the members of k.q.e.d. 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