And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. [ laughter ] im laughin already, we aint even started yet. Please welcome Jerrod Carmichael and David Alan Grier back to this program. They are stars of the show the carmichael show, starring molly gibbs, i love her. I know its hard honey, and i know its a lot. But im serious about ending my life. And i need your blessin. Ahoh, snickerdoodles ready. [ laughter ] man, if i had known grandmother was going to kill herself, i would have worn a different outfit. [ laughter ] you got to get these thoughts out of her head. I dont know, dad. I mean, i dont want grandmother to go through with this either, but think about it like this. Grandma wants to go out on top. Wouldnt you have rather seen Michael Jordan retire after hitting that three pointer against the jazz in 98 instead of him stew way past his time in the wizards jersey . If only grandma plays for the wizards. Theres so much in that clip, i dont know where to start. Its good to see you both. Great to see you. My mom only cares about, my mother is like, when are you going back on tavis . Word to your mom. Let me start with this, i guess. So rape . Assisted suicide . Yeah. When we gettin to the nword . Its coming. The 21st. Its right around the corner. People are going to theres another response to that question, but i didnt go there. Yeah. Its comin. You want to go there . Negro, please. Come on, man. It was. But its very timely. A lot of these episodes are timing out, unfortunately, some fortunately, just with culture in a real way this season, yeah. Without asking you to give anything away. Mmhm. Give me a sense of how youre framing around that episode. Is it about who can use the word . Is it about the word itself . Its more so about rules. Yeah, yeah. You grow up. And its not just being black. But i think this applies to everyone you grow up with, this set of rules, this unwritten set of rules that you abide by and these guidelines, and its kind of understood, its in the black community, certain things we didnt do, certain things we didnt allow. Certain rules, and its kind of examining that and turning it on its head and, you know, saying the nword, i have to stop myself from saying nigger. I hate saying the nword. It feels so cheap. Were adults. But thats a rule itself. So its a really rich conversation. Is there anything for bill maher tomorrow in this episode . All the white people on the planet just dont use it one of my white friends said, is it ever appropriate . I said you can use it if youre prepared for what comes afterward. I grew up in detroit. You will get a knuckle in your eye. Thats just, im 60 years old, but that is the appropriate response. Yeah. Knuckle in your eye. Oh it actually hurts thinking about it. A knuckle in the oh, yeah. That would cure a lot. That, youre on to something. Thats serious business. Mmhm. A response to a white person using a word like that. How do you guys take such serious issues and find the funny in it . I mean, for me, the carmichaels really represent a closer reality when i go home, when i hang out with my family, this is the kind of stuff we talk about. Not by the letter, but we talk about everything. And it was in the context of a family, you know, everybody in the rooms got to say their piece. Some people didnt read the article. Theyre going to say their piece. Some people read the article. Theyre going to say their piece. Some person got the news from the worst website. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. By way of facebook. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, you know, thats just the way a family works. And they all have equal strengths. Everybody said, you know, let your cousin say, hes a guest. That kind of thing. So i think the show really captures that organic family dynamic, you know. So. Is it getting harder to write or easier or maybe not, you tell me to situate the show in the moment in which we live . I ask that, because it seems like snl has certainly found its legs in this trump era, but not just donald trump, but with all thats going on in the world. Is it easier or more challenging to situate a comedy like this . For us, the key is nuance. You know, having a conversation that has both sides, genuinely heard as opposed to, i think its, now were in a time in culture when its easy to get swept up in talking points, almost a hash tag culture about how everyone else feels about something and allowing your views to feed into that. But the difficult thing is nuance in an argument. So thats what we try to stay true to when making the show. Its just like, even if its unpopular, even if people dont like it, you dont worry about that. Because we all say unlikable things. We all have unlikable views. We all have unpopular opinions, unpopular thoughts that whether you share it or not, as a human being, its a full spectrum. So just showing those, showing those moments is really important. And i just try and do that. Let me ask two politically incorrect questions if i may. Please. Get really tell us how you feel, tavis. I figure two black comedians, if i cant ask you their sounis sounds like it to be really fun or the end. So, about the jew. Dont ask about the jew. White folks dont say the nword, and i dont mess with the jews. Thats your rule. Leave me alone. Theyre my best friends. [ laughter ] yeah, i dont mess with the jews. Tavis will be on the air for the rest no, no, my first question is, how is the network treating you 40 years after Richard Pryors show on nbc . I didnt realize it had been 40 years. Just researching for our conversation. Yeah. I didnt realize. 40 years on the same network. Yeah. There are battles. Its a string of battles. Because one, youre dealing with a corporation. You never want to forget that, as much as you want to be a bleeding heart artist and say, this is truth, this is what should be seen, you are working within the confines of corporation. Anything that you see on television, even the internet, to a certain degree, youre working with, you know, these rules of people that are very cautious and very cautious about perspective thats so strong. The fear is that it will turn viewers away. Right . They dont, people dont want to say real things because theyre afraid, if you disagree, you wont watch it, but, you know, i think its, again, staying true to yourself in perspective as you know. Thats what we hold onto when anytime the networks a little cautious. We say, but this is honest, this is real. And people connect with that. And people love when you dont lie to them. To answer your question, how is the network treating us, i, for one, wish we did a lot more shows. I wish that we were not taken off the air for a year. And i think we deserve that. Weve earned that, so i, thats how i feel. Can i be more yeah, yeah. Why wont nbc get behind your show the way abc has gotten behind blackish . Its racism, tavis what did you say . Blackish. [ talking simultaneously ] answering very honestly with you, i think nbcs figuring out what their comedy brand is, right . Were kind of a casualty of figuring out exactly what the tone is, who the audience is, all of these things. Our show, i truly believe, is one of the more provocative shows on television. More than its a family show, it really is about the argument itself that allows us to do episodes like the one that aired last week about consent and it allows us to do episodes where your grandmother wants to end her own life, and you have these really heavy episodes, but it also puts up alex tn extra wall caution. Its a constant battle. Anytime, you know, if something proves profitable, people try to protect that at all costs, but what you end up doing is making a watereddown version of what youre trying to create. What you do, we said niggers six time on network television. Did they say how many . We asked for, we asked for one. It was one. Yeah. Daniella, to write two. We wrote more, we wrote more. But we wrote four, and then we taped six. How long was the meeting . The meeting was eight hours. Every white person, well, the nigger when you say nigger. Every person. Every white person was like, are you talking about the nigger show . Thats what the shows about, you know, so id like to speak my mind. You know. [ laughter ] they want dispensation. Can i say it now . No. No. [ laughter ] i think we topped that episode on this episode. Well, jerrod, all those will be bleeped when this actually airs. I think this is more educational than sesame street. Well, wait, for one thing, i never, ever, as a black man, you know, when they say its different if its the er. In a social situation, are you breaking down the er, the a. Give me the phonetics on that. In the moment, the word is the word. How do you guys get through, how do you get shows done, with all of this going on, all of this comedy . We have, we have our moments where were just all like, losing it. We have a lot of moments where we are just, not only that, but whats fun about us is we get so deep in a conversation, even outside of, outside of whatever were taping, that well be in the middle of a conversation and like they will yell action. And were still talking about, were just locked in and yelling with each other and then lorettas like, we dont talk about this later. And its fun. It really is like a real, so you and loretta have, i mean, the cast, the whole cast is great, but you and loretta have a chemistry. Ive known her forever. I feel like im married. Its like a real marriage. No sex whatsoever. We dont even live in the same house sounds like every marriage i know. Every day, i go home. No, but i have known loretta since like 1983. Weve worked together so many times over the years. So its just kind of a looked at it from dream girls to an episode of a different world. But what i was just trying to say, theres certain things you cant fake. Theres just a knowledge that we have of each other. Of all those years, and theres a trust thats there that didnt have to be learned or, or qualified. Its just walking in a room. Thats what we have. They push each others buttons very well. Like they know how to genuinely, not only, like get on each others nerves, but then use it for the camera. Theyre like, two of the most brilliant actors. Its amazing. When you guys cast this, jerrod, did you know of this longstanding friendship and believe that thats would aid and abet . I didnt know it was that long. I didnt know dream girls is where you met. I didnt know any of this. We were just happy to have both. And then the chemistry working the way it does, its like this added bonus. Its amazing. When youre coming up with concepts, jerrod, to turn into shows, this is a strange question, how do you, how do you know . What allows you, what makes you assume that a particular theme or topic will work for an episode . And i raise that, because as comedians, you may have a toipi you can get two or three jokes out of. It is whether or not you can have the real argument about it. Can i talk about this for 22 minutes. We did a cosby episode we had to shorten it. You can talk about alzheimers, all these things, these family situations for a long amount of time. So just making sure you have the perspective, not only that, but can i argue against myself . Or can we argue in the writers room. We have this brilliant staff, is there an opposite perspective thats as strong, you know, that can be heard. I think, when ive written things and you put a premise out there, a good premise grows. It blossoms. Like a tree. So that means discussion goes on and on and on and gets bigger and bigger and more complex. A bad idea is going to rot. I mean, youll put it on the table. A few jokes, and this is going to die. One of the clues to me, for a great idea is if it sparks that kind of conversation. There are a lot of times when we did the episode with my mom, i didnt, as an actor, know if we, the audience was go with us until the night we actually filmed it. Because thats when we have a live audience. We do Everything Else amongst ourselves. How scary is that, not knowing until . Its exciting. Its titillating. Its like comedy, you can sit in your bedroom and write all this quote, unquote brilliant material, but when you get on stage and you get that feedback, and then you know. Its so fun, because, you know, they expect, you know, a lot, like typical sitcom and then shes like, hey, i have alzheimers and everybodys going oh, okay. And i want to kill myself, whoa. Oh, no its always a wonderland. Dont do it, mama thats my favorite, when you hear a black woman go, mm what is, thats a, thats a question, i think, which is, how do i want to phrase it . What is the joy on the one hand or the risk on the other hand either on stage or on the small screen, screen in pushing black peoples buttons . Oh. Pushing their buttons. If i may. Please. You may. Black people at our best, are the most gifted people in the world, i genuinely believe that. I think the most incredible artists. What we have to remember to do is hold onto not only truth but also expand consciousness with our work. Because its really easy to, because black people have very strong reactions to your material. And if its something that is kind of outside of it, you can be rebelled against. I had a nightmare about black twitter the other night. Im not even on twitter. Im not even on twitter. I was like, oh, uh. Im going to start using black twitter to, as a boogeyman for my nephew. [ laughter ] and its indicative of the very strong response. But i think its so important to challenge. You have to have malcolm and you have to have martin. You can still want whats best and have different views. You know, and i think thats really important. I think an argument in general, nuance kind of falls out, you know, and especially, i think with black art and black content. Its very easy to just give the empowering speech of how, and i know were strong, i know were capable. I know were brilliant. I know were geniuses. How can we expand that, how can we challenge everything that we know. How can we push us forward and move into the future and not just hold on to, you know, everything from the past, some things are meant, you have to let go of in order to grow. Have you ever tried anything, david on stage or elsewhere, or black folks said, that aint funny, man. That aint funny. In maen masse, talking about breaking up with a woman who has kids. And you say, im no longer going to be your makebelieve dad anymore, and every woman was like, boo its not really me, but you have to get out there. Its the element. But youre told vociferously, dont go down that road. I saw your standup, a few months ago. I thought it was amazing. And ive seen that thing a halfdozen things, and ive been dying to ask this question. I didnt know what to expect, of course, when i saw this standup. But theres something about this last that you did that was different, i mean, in terms of the way you framed it, your style. No. What did you do that was different . The goal was vulnerability. Okay. Like the goal was to make it as vulnerable. The spark of it was, i was listening to this marvin gaye album called vulnerable. And the material on it was so open and honest. With standup comedy, its so bold. I wanted to say these thoughts that were unpopular, that people would disagree with, and i worked with a friend of mine, bo burnham, who is just a very, very brilliant human being, amazing director and amazing, hes a comedian himself and performer. I wouldnt even call him a comedian, just a performer. Hes amazing. And we just tried to shoot it, you know, in such a real way. Just looking at, you know, old videos and like etta james, these things that just captured a very vulnerable performance, and he and kris tor. We just wanted to be honest. We just wanted to do a standup special that was completely different than anything that you would normally see. We cut out anything that wasnt necessary, kept it really honest and about the words and about the perspective. It worked, it worked. Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. David and jerrod, to look at comedians in that setting, that audience was not overwhelmingly black. No, you know its funny. You tell me. I was telling somebody, because they were like, man, you had a mostlywhite audience, and i requested it as such. It may have been a little bit over 50 black. Okay. Since rosa parks, i think weve just gone back to sitting in the back. If you look at the balcony. If you look at the balcony, it was just like a bunch of black people. I was looking. Where they at . I had family up there. I had brothers up in the back. I aint sittin close to the stage. I dont know whether, david, if theres a particular challenge to telling those kind of jokes in front of white folk versus being at the apollo. I started at the apollo. Ill put it like this, man. I told my first joke when i first performed as a standup at the apollo, and it hit so hard, i thought the sandman was behind me. And i was afraid to look up stage, and i thought, im totally going to lose them. But the apollo was, ooh, it was deep. He didnt get you. No. It hit good. In a good way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And ive performed there many times but nothing like the apollo. Its big, but when youre on stage, it gets small. Its like a tunnel. Thats how it feels. Yeah, its an incredible place. All right, jerrod, you have the last word here. What do we have to look forward to this season on the show . Tomorrow night. Yeah, molly gibbs, thanks to her for the grandmother with alzheimers, we have things about, selfappearance. We have things about, we have a threesome episode. What, threesome . We breezed through that. Loretta and i dont get involved. [ laughter ] because but wait, let me tell a quick story. Marlas there, and shes like david, what . I dont want to die. Too late now. [ talking simultaneously ] you can come back in a dream. Mama, im so happy to have you back. You are . Then why you killin me off . She was lobbying. Maybe we can face time with your spirit. Hologram. Its my favorite season on television. And i know its hard for me to be objective here, but i mean it. I respect your judgment, if you say that, it works for me. The carmichael show, starring Jerrod Carmichael and David Alan Grier hey, mom. Im on tavis, mom. Thank you for watching. As always, keep the faith. For more information on todays show, visit tavis smiley at pbs. Org. Hi, im tavis smiley. Join me next time for paula pound stone and cheech marin. Well see you then. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Today on americas test kitchen, julia and bridget make sensational beef stirfry, jack challenges bridget to a tasting of soy sauce, and keith makes julia unforgettable scallion pancakes. Its all coming up right here on americas test kitchen. Americas test kitchen is brought to you by the following Fisher Paykel. Since 1934, Fisher Paykel has been designing