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Coming up on the sat with me Nikki Beatty add to Daniel Radcliffe reveals he's not a Method actor at all the time we had numbered our lines one through 6 and they would be all around the studio and then the director would just talk us through the whole thing going Ok now to the tales of this is your head more pain remembers the racist homophobic American south of his youth and there's tremblin in the Kremlin as master political satirist Elmander skew is the politburo in the death of Stalin We have music to British Nigerian singer and Williams tells us how her new album is inspired by the folk stories her grandmother told her and bushy sing in some way to Laura and breaks down the experience of stage fright for us what if I am not enough to do this what if I'm not justified to stand in front of this orchestra with my music all that and I guess choreographer having a different Telson Syrian playwright leeway as Coming up on. Hello I'm Debbie Ross with the b.b.c. News police are trying to establish the motive of a gunman who carried out one of the deadliest shootings in the United States in recent decades u.s. Media outlets are identifying him as Devin Kelly a military veteran dishonorably discharged from the Air Force 26 people were killed and 20 injured when he opened fire at a Baptist church during a service in the small Texas town of Sutherland Springs peaceable those reports the Sunday morning service at the 1st Baptist Church in Southern Springs have been going for about half an hour when the gunman opened fire the victims range in ages from $5.00 to $72.00 this man so what happened from outside the church. Walking toward the church or shooting and hearing shooting he had a face mask already had what looked like body armor just on recapturing from outside should come and then enter the building and continue to fire President Trump and the Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abyei have stressed their common stunts in confronting the North Korean nuclear threat in a joint press conference in Tokyo Mr Trump said the era of strategic patience in relation to Pyongyang was over that the United States of America stands in solidarity with the people of Japan against the North Korean menace history has proven over and over that strong and free nations will always prevail over tyrants who oppress their people are powerful and enduring u.s. Japan alliance includes more than $50000.00 members of the United States military stationed right here in Japan Mr Abbe said that all options are on the table and that Japan and the u.s. Would provide leadership on an international response. South Korea has imposed unilateral sanctions on 18 North Korean Bankas ahead of President don't know trauma's visit to Seoul on Tuesday the sanctions will prevent 2 financial transactions between South Koreans and those sanctioned some of him a stationed in China Russia and Libya the u.s. Commerce secretary Wilbur Ross has been accused of misleading senators after leaked documents known as the Paradise papers disclosed his involvement in a company with financial ties to the Kremlin the Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal told n.b.c. Television the connection was jaw dropping documents obtained by media groups including the b.b.c. Shit Mr Ross had retained an interest in a company shipping oil and gas for the Russian energy firm Siebel 2 of its owners are under u.s. Sanctions and another is closely linked to President Putin Senator Blumenthal said Mr Ross a token West he no longer hell shares in the shipping company the u.s. Commerce Department said Mr Ross hadn't done anything illegal and had never met the Russians facing u.s. Sanctions are you listening to the world news from the b.b.c. . Delegates from almost $200.00 countries are meeting at the 1st u.n. Conference on climate change since President Trump announced his intention to withdraw the United States from the Paris agreement that McGreal reports not content with pulling the u.s. Out of the Paris climate pact the trumpet ministration is now going one step further at this meeting with White House advisers set to attend an endorser presentations by Coal Giant Peabody Energy and others that promote fossil fuels as a solution to the climate problem this approach puts the White House at all odds with most other governments and it's angered many environmental campaigners Meanwhile governors from some of the 14 states who want the u.s. To stay in the Paris pact will be on the ground in Bonn aiming to persuade delegates of the Trump team doesn't speak for everyone the Belgian judge has ordered the conditional release of the ousted Catalan leader Colace puts them on and forth his ministers after questioning the Belgian investigating judge said the 5 Catalans could not leave the country from Brussels Kevin Connolly reports the extradition process against the 5 Catalan politicians is not begun and they're facing a series of deadlines within the Belgian judicial system alongside a tight political timetable in Catalonia they're expected to appearing court in Brussels for extradition proceedings on charges including rebellion and sedition within 2 weeks they would have a right of appeal if the court decides that they should be returned to parts alone or and that process can take up to 60 days yesterday and Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has announced plans to make every m.p. In Senate to declare their citizenship status the Australian Constitution boss those considered subjects of a foreign power from holding parliamentary office in October the High Court found 5 politicians ineligible to sit in Parliament and these included the deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce b.b.c. News. Hello this is the art fair on the b.b.c. World Service I'm making here with 60 minutes of the best global arts and culture conversation from across the group d.c. Coming up on the show in just a moment actor Daniel Radcliffe has no shame in admitting method acting isn't his thing British singer and musician Laura Mbalula talks incredibly openly about her fear and stage nerves out of fear I said to myself it's hard to just actually classical concert knowing all the while that I was just scared. The brilliant Scottish satirist and writer Armando Iannucci he who wrote fabulous political shows like the thick of it in Veep has a movie out it's called the death of Stalin American author Armistead Moore pin gave us the fabulous tales of the City series of books set in San Francisco and now he's written a memoir and he's very honest and joining me to discuss all that and their work are the on form to rebirth of choreographers how via their fruits nuts and Syrian play rightly were yesterday so your new play Lee One speech is real lies go it's in the cast just tell me briefly all the good performances I wish so. I hope so yeah and havea Have you ever worked with animals No I've heard a couple of our dresses and dances that have behaved like a. First then film and he is no longer Harry Potter people can't you see how very very very hard British actor Daniel Radcliffe has been trying to shake off the bespectacled young wizard Association he's thrown himself into what he thought with the edgiest least typecast roles recently last year is very odd Swiss Army man remember that he played a fluxion and corpse that when a couple of horror movies what if the Indy rum calm and the beat Nick. Arma Kill Your Darlings Sadly none have done well at the box office and his latest movie jungle seems to be having a similar lack of in the fact but it's not everything to an actor surely jungle is based on the true story of a young Israeli backpacker Yossi Ginsburg who after a terrible accident survives weeks lost in the Bolivian jungle after being separated from his friends he stranded without a nice map all survival training and deals with quicksand trench foot snake attacks and even had to cut out parasites that were growing under his skin you the B.B.C.'s Samir Ahmed wanted to know what it was about the role and its challenges that appealed to Daniel Radcliffe I think to me there's something incredibly moving actually and very beautiful about the idea that there is this thing inside all of us that just refuses to die and refuse to give up and it could apply to situations of people fighting the war or living under oppressive regimes and this film I think sort of is an example of that same spirit of course interested then in how you physically went through it so much of the film then is you on your own going through this physical injuries and often the cameras on your face as you're suffering terrible things the film wasn't filled in order was it not so how do you deal with that where you don't have an obvious sort of progression as things get darker and darker you know it's you in the director and hair makeup and costume and everyone have to be on the same page of what possibly doing now on was this just going into what sort of state should I be and how tired I am like how I injured my leg by that point should I be limping like you just have to sort of take all that stuff into Layout TACL Yeah you know other than a spiritual you know I mean it doesn't seem like a method thing where you just get yourself into the I'm not thinking of the I'm not a bird at all there are scenes of kind of breakdown or they were you really afraid you're going to die and. I wonder how easy do you find it to make yourself cry to reveal that and wish not not at all something I go quite freaked out about when I know it's coming up sometimes it will just happened some people can tap into that physical mechanism at a moment's notice and I'm kind of jealous of them but I'm also kind of knocks I always think like you must be thinking something very dark that got you that but if I see like he cries uncontrollably I see that stage direction I go we need to somehow show that he's really sad but actually like if you don't end up sobbing uncontrollably that's not normally been a problem for a I think I did Robert Pattinson recent all sorts of reports from the both of you who you know went to acting very young who didn't go into kind of university level for drama training whether there's something about having gone into acting your way that gives you actually unique ability to just throw yourself into the role not overthink it you just have a sense of what everything is and where everything goes and how to not be in the way and what everything means and how to look after yourself on a film set if you've been there from a young age and you've been responsive and kind of enjoyed being engaged in it and also like I think I work in certain ways that like most adult actors do not like work or like I'm perfectly happy for a director to start off camera and literally shout me like guilt him now punish him now a lot and just do a Line 6 or 7 times because that's often how you direct as a kid on pot all the time we had a number of our lines one through 6 and they would be all around the studio and then the director would just talk us through the whole scene going Ok now too and they'd then shout what we're seeing at us and so I think there's a sense of yeah do whatever you like let's just get the shot which I think maybe frees you up a little bit and so on with Daniel Radcliffe there and jungle outs Now you heard the actor discussing taking direction there how do you do as a choreographer when you're creating all recreating your work do you delve into those emotions or attitude. Do you direct your dancers like well this is kind of complicated because I have worked with both actors and dancers and I try to ask or require for the actors to ask me less and for the dancers to ask me more. Which means that we have a common ground and most important is that you know yes it is about finding the truth and the thing is that in theater anything that happens on stage the truth has been artificially created is edited so technique which means I think is something the Daniel is saying technique is about you know having your of your head already in always at a level in which you can actually get that material in common and come out of the rehearsal and even if you will intensively what I tell my dancers all the time in my performers is guys you know whatever happens in this studio stays in the studio Las Vegas Las Vegas all over again so so for me this is important that they they know that at 5 o'clock we're going to go to the park and we're going to talk about something else yes and it's done you were yesterday when you for example make documentaries do you direct the people in them or would that be dishonest actually you know in a way I'm following them in that sense of course the thing that I'm directing is oh my choosing which angle I used to feel should from what is the lines and actually the whole think about which questions and raising the moment that I have a camera that changes the whole thing up in the house how does it change or I mean if you're just come and say knock knock knock Hello I have a camera I'm doing this for you know that would be too i think too violent but to come and sit and talk for a long time and then the camera comes as something very natural and at a certain moment say look guys you know that I'm going to shoot let's go on talking the same so in a way that he's directing isn't it in some ways it's actually but you never you never actually you know manipulation year. What you are is being very sensitive to the subjects of your piece of work on and I am not for example I'm not asking them to say things I'm asking them questions that they couldn't answer me like even by the by the answer I don't want to answer you know so the possibility is there you're listening to me are on the b.b.c. World Service and a musical artist now who blew us all away with her debut album singing to the moon back in 2013 Laura Mvula. Janice Dunn the band. And. A classically trained musician with a British Caribbean background who'd sung in church choirs while she was growing up she had a look and an age combined with the most beautiful voice which we now know belied anxiety and insecurity. It's taken her some time to find her true voice is a singer and she still deals with fear performing at London's Barbican Center with her band arms the London Symphony Orchestra was just one occasion where she had to find something within to pull out in order to cope. Kicks in when I put my ears in. My n.a.s. And I can hear the audience and I can hear whatever group tuning up that's what appear up and. Out of fear I said to myself it's hard to just actually classical concert say anything at all I'm fine and I was giving all kinds of philosophical instance for this knowing all the while that I was just scared. Because what if I am not enough to do this what if I'm not justified to stand in front of this orchestra with my music who are mining to make these 70 plus middle aged white people playing my music like really let's talk about that for a 2nd. To you in a way with a not suspect was that was a bit of a mind games for me that I had ever come. 7 to. a country. With no mess. I the mighty Laura embolus certain lay in the pocket of a grave have you deferred tells you one moved by that piece of audio and music is just extraordinary since she has so without the mess yeah. I was. I mean I know you used to perform as well do you know that Thea and those nerves that she's talking about yet without a doubt tell me more terrifying crippling and during my early years as a performer and again because I perform naked for a number of years I was known for performing you know quite sexualized and an openly very violent work so my. Label was quite of a hellraiser on Hunter really as you said adrenaline always kicked in but I always promised myself that if one day that adrenaline didn't don't I would stop and reach it it happened and it happened specifically in a performance and I remembered looking for an exit sign and just wondering what would happen if I just leave right now and I found I found it fascinating because somehow there was enough craft and enough professionalism to carry on with the show and finish it but the door was very firmly close behind and what do you now in retrospect if you analyze what happened in that moment was it that suddenly just went don't need to do this anymore what am I rebelling against or was it a big affair want to analyze it and well now analyze it has really been on bombastic way to stop performing you know I didn't have a farewell tour. So that's a that's a lot of money so I was I was quite happy that the decision was kind of made for me and then I could actually made that transition I was not a person who yearn to come back to the stage that I was yearning to do my next step which was to become a creator in a garage or for a many of us know about your work naked I've only done one thing you did my life and that is the photographs. But there was something going on in my life that made it possible for me to almost disassociate and remove myself is that what you well know I never did it in order to exhibit I did it because it was a way to tap into being very vulnerable I had great issues about being naked to begin with so I also felt that the minute that I felt very comfortable on stage being naked I should stop being naked because then I was tapping into a very different way it was no longer about an emotion that you and your self could actually relate to which was being vulnerable did you have to have the most perfect controlled body when you were naked yes not necessarily beautiful but control I'm sure it's very beautiful thing. As a playwright documentary filmmaker Have you ever performed yourself yeah only in film oh was did you feel fear or we very confident How was that course I was terrified that's the standard that I'm terrified yeah 1st of all I'm not trained as an actress but the director felt like he was like really telling me I can see you there and I can help you get there there are plenty of other actors as well I really want you that gave me the confidence but still I was like terrified to do that yeah and similarly fearful for you to deliver a script for the 1st time you know terrified when you do that so much I mean the moment I give my script to somebody I feel it's like give it back and I can hide them and I can burn them you know there is a moment when I give the script to somebody to read it that I would try like a boyfriend girlfriend trying to like bring him it's 5 minutes or so to do we need to do not do shower before reader Ok you can have your book 1st 1st how much does it take maybe 10 minutes Ok thank you after 10 minutes if he's sitting and reading in my house that's the most terrible thing because I would be like moving in circles no no it's Ok you can read slowly No problem I'm not just I'm just looking because I'm just in the you know I'm about to explode. So how do you very quickly then we've heard about your fear as a performer quite understandably as a naked performer but what about as a choreographer Do you ever get nervous when you've choreographed a piece were very similar as Les were slightly saying you know you're handing you're handing a form of script to your dancers and you don't know how they're going to take it and you don't know if they're going to. Somebody's forgetting something I'm the one who knows what line they have forgotten nobody else in the audience knows you're part of the nerves has to do that the only unrehearsed part of the show is the audience you never know how the audience is going to affect you I think that's what Laura was saying about when I hear the audience coming in that sense of wow that noise I didn't have in the studio when I was or when I was writing or in the house and I think that that that brings an element that you are completely unprepared for I don't know how the energy of an audience is going to affect those performers which up until the day before they were all beautiful and perfect and that your idea about fear in relation to somebody saying Your words are doing your show is actually the moment I give I give the text to the actors it's really horrifying because then they start saying things that are in my in my mind and I have all those possibilities now and I feel like oh my God now we have like 12 actors and then I really feel responsible for every single word they are saying and that's really a response versus a we're going to talk about your play go in in a little while let me talk to you directly have a different sales congratulations 1st of all because you've just been given the best choreography in film award at the 2017 Chita Rivera Awards in New York they used to be the Fred and Adele a stand Ward's this is for your work on a film called London road basically Actually if you've only just joined the show let me tell you who have the air is he is a Venezuelan born dancer and choreographer known for pushing boundaries in all the fields he works in so that stunts theater visual arts film and he's often described as controversial one of his works eternal damnation to Santa and Sanchez was banned by the b.b.c. For depicting a deformed pope pregnant nuns and wild sex his work is flamboyant. Extreme it's outrageous and it's brave he created a full length ballet with the Pet Shop Boys based on the Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale staged his own death for the sake of art that was complete with a professionally written a bit chewy and a group of very dances and amongst other works at the moment his award winning choreography for Cabaret is currently in revival and touring the u.k. There is also a revival of his award winning El 2nd Aster at the Charlotte ballet in North Carolina I mean I could go on but we'd be here all day wouldn't way and the most incredible thing also goes to goes to Charlotte to next year so that's we're very excited but the most incredible thing is that. Yes The interesting thing when we created the work I remember that we were sad with the producers it was Chris pressure boys and myself and constantly reminding us that do you know it's a family ballad only. Quite a few times finally I snapped and I said if you do find what families in the 21st century interest then I'll be quite happy to go for that family unit but up until you can do that then I think I'm going to do my thing and my thing is that respect for for the audience that is going to see it is understanding your target audience so I want to tell whatever stories or whatever message is important for the work so let's talk about London road because that's what you've just one less very prestigious award for it began as a play and it moved to a film but it basically documents these very shocking events in a rural town called it switch which is in Suffolk in the u.k. Murdered bodies of 5 women who were prostitutes were discovered and the film follows the community who found themselves at the epicenter of those events now you use or the productions use their words so we use the word verbatim when we talk about theatre to describe something. It exactly replicates what's said but how do you get them to what is the choreography Let's break this down so the choreography the choreography is inherent only present throughout the whole of the film I was asked after we did the stage show they said we are very happy with what you have done on stage but now we need you to do something completely different and the different was that I was going to be transparent which I always said you know choreographed me that I mean what does that mean yes I needed to understand how those people talked and if I understood how they talked I understood how they got up and how they walked to the toilet and how they cooked and how they moved is really putting in some kind of choreographic order whatever is involuntary movement is so it's very interesting because people think of choreography very literally as just being a dance move Yes and it and a sequence of moves that are connected eventually Well it's like watching migratory birds you know there is a core inherent in voluntary choreography that only if you edited and regroup it it becomes choreography because it has a middle a big beginning and an end so there is a scene in the film with the girls in the bus where where they move collectively they move in unison because yes girls in a bus chances are they will that's so beautifully observed they would be account to saying we're very nervous and it would start with speech with very nervous and then it was suddenly where very nervous and Livia Coleman's character would be coming out of her door and I think you just made him move ahead you know away from things and that was poetic and said a lot I mean huge congratulations on it thank you people can see this hopefully online wherever they are in the world very very soon it's called London Road the fabulous Senegalese kora player and singer Sacre Kato was back in London recently comes from a. A musical heritage his father is from the Cape Royal line his mother was a clan associated with musicians and this is dedicated to his grandfather who taught to play the Koran it's cold if only I knew. Then go away there's lots more to come back after that. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the u.s. Is made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio content engaging audiences creating meaningful experiences and fostering conversations proud to deliver the highest quality and most respected news the b.b.c. World Service because global times call for global perspectives a.p.m. American Public Media. You know I drive junky car Hello this is Nina Totenberg when my husband and I were courting he was really scandalized by my very old Mazda 626 and when we were invited to a state dinner at the White House he said that I should rent a fancier car I refused of course it's amazing to think that I kissed her and that cards into my favorite programs go to k. R.c.c. Daughter words tales. Would mean a. Subject for skewering and after. A bit. Of choice I was raised as old as my mom. And say No we're using it in English and everything when they give you. Coming up on the. B.b.c. News with. Police in Texas trying to establish the motive of a gunman who carried out a deadly shooting at a Baptist church u.s. Media outlets are identifying him as Devin Kelly a military veteran dishonorably discharged from the Air Force 3 years ago 26 people were killed when he opened fire at the church in the small town of Sutherland Springs. President Trump and the Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abbay have stressed their common stance in confronting the North Korean nuclear threat in a joint press conference in Tokyo Mr Trump said the era of strategic patience in relation to Pyongyang was over Mr Albay said that all options were on the table the u.s. Commerce secretary Wilbur Ross has been accused of misleading senators after leaked documents known as the Paradise papers disclosed his involvement in a company in which some shareholders have ties to the Kremlin the Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal told n.b.c. Television the connection was jaw dropping the u.s. Commerce Department said Mr Ross hadn't done anything illegal delegates from almost $200.00 countries meet today at the 1st u.n. Conference on climate change since President Trump announced his intention to withdraw the United States from the Paris agreement in a move likely to anger environmentalists a White House advisor is expected to take part in a presentation promoting coal natural gas and nuclear energy. A Belgian judge has ordered the conditional release of the ousted cancer land leader Colace pushed him on and 4 of his ministers after questioning they wanted by Spain to face charges including rebellion and sedition and are expected to appear in court in Brussels for extradition proceedings within 2 weeks yesterday in Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has announced plans to make every m.p. And Senator declare their citizenship status in October the High Court found 5 politicians ineligible to sit in Parliament b.b.c. News. Welcome back to the art cell in the d.v.c. World Service with me Nicky Beatty and if you've only just joined us he's a rapid recap of what you missed in the 1st half of the show actor Daniel Radcliffe Not Harry Potter told us he isn't a method actor singer and musician lore and though to talk to very honestly about her performance nerves and fear and I had a good old chat with choreographies on phone to reveal how via different us and he's still with us in the studio as is my other guest Syrian playwright leeway Asti who's going to be talking about goats in a little while that's the title of her new play and those goats represents so much more than just the animal kingdom. Also coming up in this health of the show in a moment Scottish satirist Armando Iannucci on the death of Stalin American author and creator of Tales of the city Armistead Maupin remembers the effect of moving to San Francisco as a young man suddenly the touch of another man is permitted all of that had been terrible before so I felt my heart opening up in a big way and I think that's when I became a writer really in that moment and we find out what musician and singer and a Williams learnt by listening to our Nigerian grandmother to all Mondo Iannucci then creating tremblin in the Kremlin as a writer he's reached peak political satire with the u.k. Television show The Thick of It and its spin off film in the loop and with my favorite American comedy of the last few years Veep and now Amanda has directed and co-written the darkly comic movie the death of Stalin which looks at the intrigue and scrabbling for power amongst a core team of ministers following the death of Joseph Stalin in 1953 the film's formidable a list cast includes Steve Buscemi Simon Russell Beale Michael Palin and Jason Isaacs playing the. Dignitaries Khrushchev Beriah Molotov and Zuckoff a man doing an h. He spoke to Simon Mayo and Markham mode and explained where the comedy comes from in Stalin's Russia fundamentally it's about you know the comedy from is the comedy of people being terrified of doing the wrong thing or saying the wrong thing of putting the you know everything had to be done unanimously in Stalin's Russia there is the famous story of when he gave a speech everyone stands up in applause with the 1st person to stop clapping get shot so the applause would go on for just hours under that little kind of whisper of what we're getting from North Korea is exactly the kind of material that you're you're filming within the origin is in a graphic novel yet French graphic novel called The death of Stalin by Fabien Europe it's not the most obvious subject for a comedy No And you know the challenge is to make it funny but at same time for the comedy not to undermine the seriousness of what was going on because I knew going into it there were going to be scenes that were funny and were going to be scenes that definitely weren't funny and it was up to me to make sure that those scenes where as memorable. As the comic set pieces but for me the comedy was the way into it there is a dark heart to the real yes which is you know and it involves massacres and it involves paedophilia and it involves torture and I guess if you hadn't put those in you'd be accused of of what watching you know a to know absolutely I mean I've been very I've been very honest in conversations and interviews that is 2 things it's a comedy and it is a tragedy and they run similar to uneasily the 1st thing I said to the production team really right at the start the process was you know the comedy takes place in the Kremlin but we have to be very respectful of the fact that millions of people were affected and we can't hide that and we mustn't run away from it and we need to be honest about it we must let it overwhelm the film but I do and I want the audience. To feel by the end that kind of underlying tension and anxiety that I think most people must've felt on a daily basis having put up with 20 years of not knowing whether they were going to live through the night I still think it's it's a very funny film and I wanted to make a very funny film and we've got some great comic performers in it but there is this underlying reality of what's going on when you get a Russian release we've got Russian distributor and the Russian press have said they liked it they thanked us for not using Russian accents. I know someone in the Communist Party there has said that Western conspiracy to undermine Russia but Stalin is is it an ambiguous position in the Soviet Union in Russia now because if you asked especially young people what you taught about Stalin they say some people say he killed millions other people say he industrialized the Soviet Union and won the war you decide and that's the sort of receded both well yeah and there's that ambiguity there but also there is the idea that Putin is projecting of the strong leader so the statues of stallions also statues of Tsar Nicholas the 2nd up in Moscow you know it doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum they are a man doing a new t.v. Talking about his movie The death of Stalin and I need to single out Andrea Riseborough for her performance as for Atlanta Stalin's daughter in this nobody is talking about her leeway yesterday this subject in film could be told as a documentary film are there real life stories do you think that work better as documentaries. And others that work better as fiction you make documentary films or you know I would argue is about artistic approach to think of course there are things that we'd say yeah that would make a fantastic fiction you know but I do believe that you know it's that poses should be combined with the artistic like the deep thinking about the John coming as an organic relation with with a theme so I feel it's really a very instinctive decision about it and I do feel like he could either make a very good documentary or a very bad documentary so it's how do you do it how do you defer to the death of Stalin juxtaposes fast sickle committee with some pretty horrifying tree events and some of your ballets have addressed savage themes they often touch on sex and death . So those things aren't necessarily comfortable to watch but is it is that something that you like well well it depends of the time of day and the pencil when I'm creative working really and really does that tell you what what my interests my interests are you know I was going to complete what Lee was actually saying that you know we are something interesting or the reason why we create a worse of fiction opposite a documentary and I would love to do a documentary but again it's something that I need to I need to control what is the word documentary you know what is your utility The thing about the humor or whenever you push the envelope on either direction is because the current reality is so ridiculously close to fiction that might as well just carry on doing fiction because eventually it's going to catch up with the reality so for instance in the case of eternal damnation in which really this was all about writings of Bangkok talk and he was the horrifying writings about the opium diaries etc etc happened to be very comfortably close to what the situation with the Catholic Church in paedophilia and sexual abuse was and it just so happened to be there for anybody that has seen the works. Understanding there is an incredible sense of humor all the way through it which makes it even more terrifying humor can make things frightening cantered humor also gives us a great deal of distance and permission to say an amount of stuff that on a current form in a straightforward straight through the play would not be able to pass muster. You're listening to the art fair on the b.b.c. World Service and we've been asking you on our Facebook page whether our actor Daniel Radcliffe will ever escape assuming he wants to from Harry Potter Well Christine Kruger who is in Frankfurt Germany says I thought he was good and very on Harry Potter like as Roger had Kipling Sunday My Boy Jack Nischelle Cinna in Hyderabad in India said he did ask acting in the jungle movie Love from India Eric Iverson says he needs a stronger chin cheeks and jaw to become another typecast Hollywood type so it looks history's net and Luke to reject who is in Ouagadougou in booking Afonso says it's probably not the audience nagging him about his use role it's mere lazy media professionals who basically have not much value to add anymore these days so they muck about it a bit and it's paid mockery to I think you're pointing your finger at ass aren't you there all alone see us is Sania from Malawi says he will never escape law lolol he's terrific on stage as well he's done he's done a couple of musicals on Broadway and he's just a river so yeah that's what people should be looking at no leader yesterday as a Syrian writer poet an artist you've worked across a lot of disciplines as a dramaturg a t.v. Scriptwriter a translator and a critic you've also made a documentary which we mentioned it's called haunted but you're here today to talk about your latest work as a playwright It's called goats. And according to your stage directions there are goats bleating in every scene and then as the play goes on in terms of the sound we hear missiles and explosions getting Clara we play tells the story of a small town in Syria that loses its children in the war and the parents of the dead soldiers are given goats as compensation set the scene for us if you will in terms of when is this taking place yeah it's taking place in somewhere in Syria and it's an imaginary little town in Syria and the last the last 3 years of the war like starting from $21617.00 it's an imaginary town then bought it is true story isn't it the goats were suggested as compensation Yeah I mean these little details about details I mean these little horrifying things you know happened actually happened the play is not a documentary play it's just really a fiction a fiction story taking all these horrifying appalling things that really happened in Syria and putting them in that story because you actually alternate a metaphor and reality yeah so as an audience coming to see the play will have moments where we realize that this could be real and then other moments where we think Yeah Ok so why did you choose to tell the story like that actually because I was like all the time I was I was living there and I was like writing notes special notes about things and then of not is that everything that I'm taking as notes were so little things happening in worse times so it looked like I was like really trying I was struggling not to normalize with the silly yes there are going to be real goats on stage Am I right yes now the rule is never work with animals and children you know that So this is going to be an adventure isn't it having gets on stage How's it going to work. I don't know but it's so these real goats on the stage I mean did they have to go through a casting process actually yeah to be honest yeah so there are because you know this is a whole different world you know you just cannot say heart that's me hello you know there's something should happen and there's like a go manager go under that I would say yeah those those are like you you really friendly Those are happy to be mingled with humans you know all the studies and like the research is about what type what breed what size what do you know when I was leaving the rehearsal room I'm looking at one of the people engaged in the issue about growth and I feel like oh my God what I'm doing to the people when we start to meet the characters the parents who've lost sons in the fighting this leads very quickly to a discussion about war whether it's necessary or not and also debate as to whether these young people are martyrs all these actual conversations that you experience liwa actually not actual discussion that I experience but actually questions that I had these questions were all the time in my head like the debate about was this war necessary yes we have a speech for example where one of these officials is saying our countries lead the way in recognizing the role of the martyr in society offering assistance to the families of martyrs a mountain goat eat oh there's a casting No it has to be a mountain goat a mountain goat for each martyrs family a goat for every family it goes on and at the end says What a generous and noble gesture and you start to laugh when you read this and see this because it seems odd but there's a dark underlying truth to that the t.v. Presenter who is doing all this great she knew it this coverage. Is that based in truth I mean for example worth it t.v. Cameras filming someone dying yeah it's really horrifying there was a woman dying after the bombardment and she just ran away maybe with all the good intentions in the world I don't know she went there and she was saying what do you think of those terrorists who wanted to kill you this is the Chile resent running after and this is a real Yeah so I mean that kind of being in that kind of thing and always have to think what is the motivation behind that I mean I wouldn't say that she's like a devil moving with a camera and I'm like I don't know on levels it's an acceptable number I found her on acceptable throughout the play on but I don't like her too much she does not represent my kind of journalism of course I mean she's creating a narrative I don't want to give too much away when Adnan comes home he treats his mother so who Halling Lee and the way he speaks to those women is revolting I wanted to know what you were trying to depict through his character coming back I actually was thinking of trying to imagine what would be a soldier running away from the front to the home that he was raised in to be a hero and yet war and all this contradictions of I'm coming with it from from a different truth and I'm coming from the death. I mean so it's just imagining that thing it's a fascinating premise to use goats like Wes I want to say very very good luck or break a leg or crack a femur with working with bees and I was all excited actually yeah I hope so it premieres at the local theater goats the play here in London on November the 24th It's on until December 30th but hopefully it will travel the world for all. If you're listening right now. You're listening to the art fair on the b.b.c. World Service I'm Nicky Beatty and when I read American authors Mr Moore pins tales of the city novels they were so richly evocative of a time in San Francisco that I really felt I'd been there he transported readers into the freewheeling love lives of a group of San Franciscans gay and straight presided over by a dope smoking transgender landlady called Mrs magical and when I went to San Francisco for the 1st time I could feel those characters on those hilly roads and winding streets the tales of the city novels are required reading for many an American liberal and yet as he reveals in logical family a memoir Armistead Maupin early life was framed by racism bigotry and homophobia in the American south his journey from North Carolina to San Francisco where he lives with his husband includes his time in the Navy out of posting to Vietnam the B.B.C.'s John Wilson talked to more pain about his roots in South Carolina and about his father's ultra conservative beliefs very reactionary a white supremacist massage honest and a phobic any term you want to use from today a Confederate flag flying proudly Yes in the living room and I believed in every bit of it because he was my father and I loved him and I thought that was the way things were supposed to be but also the fact that not just that you were following in your father's political footsteps that you were right wing but also looking at writers of the self O'Connor and Tennessee Williams that you thought they would disparaging they were maligning the proud self Yes I actually wrote an essay my senior year in high school saying that very thing about Faulkner and Williams and I realized later of course it was about the South at all it was about these families and their hidden sexuality and all those themes that make those writers so interesting. And I actually met Tennessee Williams at a gallery opening I saw him there in the crowd people were clamoring to get to him it was really one of the creepiest versions of fame I had ever seen in my life he really looked uncomfortable and I left the gallery and I went out of the yard and I was smoking a joint and moments later he came out walked over towards me and said Would you mind terribly. Sharing my joint so I did I didn't acknowledge I knew who he was or anything else I say in the book I figured he'd prefer the kindness of a stranger was there a sense of struggle internal struggle not just in terms of your sexuality and who you were but also politically socially that you felt so out of place out of time growing up there when I moved to San Francisco that's where I really felt out of place because nobody approved of the life that I had led back in North Carolina and I began to examine that and think well if I'm here getting liberated in the way I'm being liberated with my sexuality and my right to be who I am what other things was everybody wrong about and so I had to look at racism and massage any all of that and see it through new eyes through sexuality that opened up your eyes to a whole different way of looking at the world it was almost completely sexual to suddenly the touch of another man is permitted all of that had been taboo before so I felt my heart opening up in a big way and I think that's when I became a writer really in that moment. And his love Jiko family a memoir out's now have a different self does more thing mean anything to you he is one of the most revered because of his tail is pretty much a part of the urban for policy of gay life in the last 50 years in our history as gay people is as documented pretty young and only. But 50 to 60 years of really documenting and telling it like it is enormous to pretty much has done that again with a great deal of sense of humor and self deprecation which has been our biggest armor . To survive this is great to hear him being slightly more in touch with a real persona his own his own tales of his own city yet to speak as opposed to telling other people stories leeway yesterday and more pin talks there about coming out and being accepted that unlocked him as a writer Have you had a single thing release you as a writer they have that experience you know I had I had. I started thinking that I would be a fine artist and there was a moment when like my father being a fine artist as well but he was a pessimist and that moment like art can really. Make me survive really and then there was a moment when I was like we looked in that situation and then I had to create again art with different tools Yeah actually there wasn't one moment but there was like a process of for violation when I turned from Colors to words that's a visual way of pressing it finally on today's music push Nigerian singer and lyricist and I will mc is the front woman of a.b.b. You sound machine named as her lyrics are in our native Nigerian language. Their sound is afro electro an eclectic mix of contemporary dance and synth sounds laid of a classic Nigerian highlight for them is and vocals although she was born in London Eno grew up in the region of southeastern Nigeria a mainly Christian culture where she was influenced not just by high life but also Nigerian gospel music and African hope her words inspired by the folk stories her grandmother told her in. As a child to her and her band. Music is a unifying force their debut album was released to great acclaim in 2014 and now she's back with another it's called. Celebrating women it's pain Homemade to the women in my family the woman I grew up of our and and women in general just a beauty not just a physical beauty but just a vulnerability and a free spirit of women. Was growing up I was raised by my grandma and sort of my mom I remember her teasing me once and say you know where you sing it in English and everything when are you ever going to sing in the review and this is kind of how this whole thing started I was like Ok if you like but no one's really doing it well you could be the 1st and we went back and forth you know conversing and then she was like all those stories you know with the years of like you know that's true you know and I kind of never thought about it for a long time until she passed away and then the opportunity came along when I was talking to Max who was one of the producers on the record and I started telling him about the stories and singing some of the melodies and phrases and a bit in the bureau and everyone was like wow that's really would make so that's how it really all started what do you sing about in a baby a lot of the stories I got told that the child the main moral stories freedom liberation positiveness and hope as well given for us and giving hope to people she always talked about that a lot. You know down. Here because of the sounds of giving a reason which is a positive kind of vibe addressing a serious subject but giving people hope as well and what is not about that one is about because I actually got taken a few years ago being denied the right to go to school because the Chibok girls Chibok girls I swear it's just kind of made me wonder why girls can't have a right to an education and just generally why people can't be free to be cool with they want to be. As much as as a serious fighter that we didn't want to dwell on the bloom of that we wanted to bring back the sense of hope and the sense of giving people a voice. Would be considered unusual leading this band that apart from the guy is all male I think back in the day there would have been probably a negative there's a lot more women in music now in Nigeria but it is mainly a land to meet industry women need to have a voice and we went women need to be given a voice as well so I think really it's about time that women stepped up to the plate. That was and I really am and the album is called Ojai celebrating women before we get I'd like to ask by my guest in the studio today for a recommendation so something that either of you have heard seen watched or read perhaps that you want us all to experience to havea I'll come to you 1st of all without a hint of a doubt and I'm going to relish in telling his name look at what I mean us very well pronounce Thank you he is incredible call me by your name it's the most extraordinary film this year and probably of the last 10 years devastating and funny and absolute politics in book ation of 1st love and family yet is what surprised me the most Parenthood that's what floored me so it's called Call Me by your name it's a beautiful film from an amazing filmmaker what's about yearly it's actually the. Play by their angry on white Estefan Akim it was written and 1968 it's called the family thought it's actually a grotesque play about a family that is risk. Living Color and coming from war to them and he's completely crazy but because he's a calm No they obey everything he does and the whole thing about grotesque and war and I think it's so much has to do with our times it's about false news we're getting false news thank you both so much I say glass yes to you havea different and so grand so you really were here and thank you for your company on this so if you get you can be in touch with me and the same via email it's the b.b.c. Documentary ek details and information about this week on the website so now I mean and producer Philip Ritchie next week. You're listening to the b.b.c. World news on k. Or c c 2 Southern Colorado's n.p.r. Station broadcast on 91.5 f.m. From our studios in Colorado Springs Colorado you can also hear cares you see in the following communities 88.5 f.m. In West Cliff and Gardner 89 point one f.m. In La Hunter 89.9 f.m. In Lyman 90 point one f.m. In Manitou Springs 91.7 f.m. In Trinidad and Raton New Mexico 94 point one f.m. In Walsenburg and love feeder 95.5 f.m. And leg.