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Every public member of the Virginia House of Delegates is asking for a recount after official results show him losing by less than 30 votes delegate Chris Stoll has requested a recount after the State Board of Elections certified that he lost a Democrat Nancy guide by 27 votes out of more than 20000 cast still as a member of a prominent Virginia Beach political family and has served in the house since 2010 Democrats will control the House regardless of the outcome of the recount also the Board Certified that Republican delegate Nick Freydis won reelection he was forced to mount a writing campaign after failing to submit election paperwork on time he's Peter's reporting now about a quarter back to talk about I know it hasn't gone right hip surgery after suffering a dislocation in Saturday's went to Mississippi State and have a team surgeon Dr Bao Cain said Monday the procedure in Houston was successful he described the quarterback's prognosis is excellent more of the stories at townhall dot com of Patrick draws and now I thought from Geico motorcycle It took 15 minutes to take a spirit animal quiz online please be the cheetah. And learn your animal isn't the cheetah but the far less appealing blobfish. Come on Glenn insult to injury you could have used those 15 blobfish minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to Geico Geico 15 minutes could save you 50 percent or more on motorcycle insurance these 2 musicians play the same instrument one is a right the other is more romantic They may sound nothing alike but they're in total harmony when it comes to breakfast at McDonald's whether you play licks or can't play a lick together we breakfast get into the groove with a $1.00 any size Macapp a premium roast coffee only at McDonald's your morning starts. Limited time only a participating McDonald's cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal money 155 k. Sack. This is where you have be even this is our American stories and we chat with authors of all sorts and well long kinds of books here too and today we're joined by Sam Walker the founding editor of The Wall Street Journal sports section and the author of the captain class the hidden force the creates the world's greatest teams and Sam look there's no better way to start a bar fight than to pick the greatest teams in the world I mean that's really hard and also you can have a bar fight deciding what's a sport what's a. Talk about both of those things and was it hard or was it easy sometimes telling me it's pretty hard I thought it would be easy you know I had those arguments at the bar you know they always ended just someone storming out as it was impossible to answer and what I realized is that this really no set criteria for how we define greatness and no one had really done a rigorous study or tried to actually you know down so that was the one of the toughest things I had to do at the beginning was to find greatness and in the end what I decided was that we have. Be a little more specific about what team is a team has to have a certain number of people it can't be 2 people that's who are partners and I finally decided that 55 people was really the point at which Herb contributions and group chemistry was more important than individual performance so basketball was a small sport that I studied and I had another set of questions which was how do you define greatness and you know for me one of the problems is when people talk about great teams there's no real set period of time that we apply to it a lot of people talk about teams that recruit in one season or an incredible undefeated season but what I really wanted to study what I realize was important is teams that had sustained their dominance for a long time because I think any team can get lucky they can win a championship in one season or 2 seasons but really to rule out walk completely into talk about culture and chemistry then you really have to set the bar for years and let's talk about some competing theories that are out there because the name of your book is The captain quest some people think it's the coach who some people think it's the management some people think it's that superstar player or the team of players what led you to this categorization and your choice to study the captains I was completely shocked I had all of the same assumptions and I think everyone when I finally identify these teams that's of years and years of work I went through 25000 tire history of sports. And I got down to 17 of them and you know the 1st thing I looked at was tell right I thought talent would be the thing you know but I quickly realized that some of these teams you know they all were talented but some had talent that was clearly a virtue or even mediocre in some cases So wasn't that the 2nd day I was coaching you know it's got to be coaching to my great surprise there wasn't a pattern there I'm not saying coaching isn't important but some of these teams had more. In one coach you know they changed coaches or you know somebody would have coaches or coaches who really didn't take an active role in fact only one of them had a coach who was considered a great coach when their run of dominance began so that wasn't the magic bullet I was looking for I also look at things like tactics and I thought maybe they just had incredible brilliant strategies that stood out above the rest but again only a handful of them could say so that was an out and either it didn't have anything to do with organization or even management at the higher levels the only thing that they all had in common and it was slap your forehead obvious and it was just so plain as day when I looked at it was that these runs of greatness he's Longstreet Saddam they always correspond it almost precisely to the arrival and departure of one player and that player in every single case is the leader team captain and let's take a deep dive in Dear Captain theory with the 1st captain I want to talk about and this great American sports franchise called the Boston Celtics Bill Russell who was the. Bill Russell is in my mind the greatest team leader in sports history and what that team accomplished I've never seen a thing the likes of I mean they want to level n.b.a. Championships in 13 seasons and people forget that we talk about the the bowls Michael Jordan the Warriors today Bron James you know what we don't see that incredible consistency the whole notion of a team that has won 10 n.b.a. Titles and yet is still hungry to win in the 11th this kind of incredible and they pulled it off year after year and again at St began and it with Bill Russell started his rookie season when they won their 1st championship in the something set never want to title before and the year he retired was the last chance championship of the street in the following season they even make it to 500 make the playoffs as many more years for them to return to glory so this was completely bracketed by Bill Russell and I want to make the point very clearly how much saying that all you need is a great captain to have a great team and you need a lot of things a lot of things have to work but to me the captain is really like the urbanists it's you know if you had to the nouns and the punctuation all these other things might be more interesting more memorable but without the verb it's not a sense it doesn't work together and that's kind of the role these captains played in bringing exams together and Russell such a great example because Russell was absolutely on the court completely strange he was a big man who did not score which was very unusual for the day and you know back then defenders were supposed to leave their feet you know but he would fly through the air and block shots and he played this ferocious brand of defense was completely relentless you know never seen anything like that and his numbers were not startle and some people didn't understand and you know off the court too he was strange and he didn't care about a door since he didn't sign autographs he was very. Prickly with the press and didn't really seem to care much about the fans or being a role model or anything that we associate with with leadership you know in fact he turned down the hall of fame you know when he was inducted it's I just don't want any part of it people thought he was an oddball but really what they didn't understand it was that all he cared about was the collective accomplishments of the team and all his effort every one inside the team and inside the team is team that loves him you know and everything about him understood him completely and then he would do anything for him and on the court you know he understood that you know what the team didn't need was someone pouring in baskets and getting the highlight reel and he'd Someone who do all the glamorous grunt work every 30 job done in order to help the team win and that was his role so he's just the epitome of great leadership and he was a misunderstood his time and you know I think only today were really start to understand the full dimensions of what he brought to it and anyone who was around during that day knows who Bill Russell was by the way he played at the universities you know Francisco and from straight college as well when we come back more and say I'm Walker of the captain Clint this is now American. 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This is our American stories and we're back with Sam Walker the author of the captain class they didn't force the creates the world's greatest teams we were just talking about Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics and Sam You began the book with the words of his legendary Captain quote my ego demands for myself the success of my team Yeah I know I love that has such a great encapsulation of what you need to be if you want to be a great leader and you know all the different ways that you need to think about your role and much 'd harder to work and how much of yourself to just forget about you know really need to kind of give yourself completely to the girls and that's something that we're not trying to do this is goals are teaching people to do that selflessness in self-sacrifice aren't generally words people use for most C.E.O.'s in America we can we can say that safely Sam talk about the Coleman play because one of the things about Bill Russell I'm going to learn this more about some of these other captains is this word called Desire and my goodness anybody who played around Bill Russell understood what that word meant. So this is one of my favorite stories because I think it shows one of the characteristics that we all kind of know is important but that we don't really understand why it's important and that is relentlessness and Bill Russell was relentless and into an extreme he would get sick before every game they play meaningless games you throw up in the locker room and in fact if he didn't for office you may say Russ he could throw up quick what's wrong with you. Because he cared so much but the colon play was a perfect example of why this matters now this happened in the rookie season and they made the n.b.a. Finals and that Game 7 against the Santos hawks and now this one the 1st game 7 it was just a huge of a credible pressure and Russell as a rookie you know lately game boss and a one point Lee is a minute left and Boston got a rebound and Russell charged on the court and he tried to dump all this stuff this time missed and St Louis got the rebound and now St Louis affording Jack home and had been sort of hanging back behind the play and they quickly inbound to Baltimore at midcourt and he's at midcourt with the ball and a running start now Russell who had missed that duck Where was he he was underneath his own basket off the court on the other side he was about $96.00 heat from the basket and Coleman was $545.00 with a run start but when Coleman came to the rim and to make a layup Now this is late again they were taking a lead 'd my own in the end this blur appeared behind a lot of the ball and it was Russell and he had somehow twice the distance that Coleman had in the same time I mean nobody on in that arena or with Audi had a chance and he certainly must not have known himself but just that Rod desire that he demonstrated over and over again in competition the thing about it is that was consistent for him and what we. I don't understand is that studies have shown that well what was this is highly contagious you know if a group of people in the studio something together thinks that one person in that group is giving 100 percent effort a real maximum effort that all of them will raise their own performance if you have someone in your midst like that who is Roland listened committed to playing at all times and 100 percent there are going to be serious marginal hands that you will you'll see in your team work and that's just not something we can quantify so it's not something that we teach but I think it's about time we start we've all been around people who have that kind of drive and focus and what it does to our game we raise our game we raise the bar when those people aren't present we don't even know where the bar is right exactly you know this fire because there are some of motions that are contagious inside a group and relentless This is contagious always in a good way toughness is always contagious a good way if you show toughness and perseverance others will too and another one is emotional control or something all these leaders have they had the ability to overcome really difficult personal circumstances and not just compete well compete at a higher level than ever Tom Brady of the Patriots is a great example of this you know a couple seasons ago after this whole deflate gate situation in the service suspension but he came back and played one of his greatest seasons but even after they won the Super Bowl this incredible comeback against the land and we find out that his mother having undergoing chemotherapy you know I had been diagnosed with cancer that season so he was going through that he never said a word about no one knew about it and he had the control to put that away and to play as hard as he could and it's playing a deal with separately and no doubt we're going to get to Brady in a little bit because it's such a fascinating chapter in your book but let's talk about one more basketball player because I don't think he gets the credit he deserves Tim Duncan of the sin in Tony oath perves talk about timmy Duncan who is he. He is a very unusual guy he was a great swimmer I mean really had incredible talent could have maybe even been an Olympic swimmer but you know the hurricane came in and destroyed the local pool and about the same time his mother passed away and you know he had a these hard knocks and he started picking up basketball and was very want to recruit in fact way forces one on the schools that really took him seriously and he was very skinny kid in this and wanted his body but you know he got there and really mature became a really hot and be a prospect but you know I don't think anyone really thought that he was going to become the star that he was or he would develop skills or he did but the thing that's fascinating about tendon there are 2 things I think so much about him that is instructive for leaders but I think the most important thing really is the way he played and he had the talent to dominate the n.b.a. In terms of scoring you know any of the famous Scalia's statistics but if you look at his totals It's 'd really amazing to me some years he was very prolific score some years it was not his blocks and rebounds other things were off the charts he would change his position on the court and play different positions the pending on the makeup of the team it just showed they had the same quality that Russell had which is that he didn't care what its numbers were or what he thought of them or whether he got on the cover of a magazine he only cared about the team winning and he would do whatever grunt work needed to be done and he would change his role to fit but the thing about Tim Duncan that really everyone should study is the way he communicates I was completely surprised when I looked at these cabins because the 1st thing I thought the 1st way that you know to meet a team is is with a speech you give a big speech right you motivate them with words and none of these captains 8 feet and they did not like to do it so I'm purposely avoided and I did not understand this. In understand how they communicate effectively the team is out I went right to Duncan because if you there watched and give an interview you know that he is not a charismatic guy he sounds like he's going it cold and ask Pete what they think answered questions he just has no motions 'd he's monosyllabic right he doesn't come across as a charismatic person so how does he communicate well he talks a lot but it's a different sort of communication he's always working the room talking individually to one person one on one incredible intense stares uses eye contact and gestures and touch to communicate very intensely with people and he listens as much as he talks as a lecturer he listens and he has interactions all the time and he has them in the moment especially when someone has done something wrong or needs and courage and that's when he springs into action and when I realize that the Spurs talk more than any team or state and they're always talking on the floor on the bench because the communication and this creates an atmosphere everyone feels like they can contribute they feel heard and they also feel like they have to account for themselves and all the problems that team had work dressed in the moment nothing ever festered this talkative style that they have allowed them to address problems in the moments in the past and that's why they were so good for so long as why they made the playoffs in 1000 consecutive seasons with a credible revolving cast of players and won 5 champions and had the greatest long term winning percentage in n.b.a. History it was because that that whole climate doesn't create you know allow them to slot new people and get them talking and solving problems so even though they didn't always have the best hour or so not the most money they were the most dominant team of their And yet. We're talking to Sam Walker author of the Kaplan class I want to refer theories is that. Wherever you might put him in the pantheon of great. 19 consecutive playoff 5 Gippi in chips and the best winning percentage in National Basketball Association history and by the way if you like what we do here in our American story speaking of police trying to raise the bar and lead the dialogue maybe the captain of the class and storytelling go to our American Network dot org and sign up for our free newsletter 5 best stories each week you'll get them and also please send the link to a friend if you like what you're hearing please help us succeed in the market in the marketplace of ideas and stories we're working hard to get this out to the American people there's a lot of screaming there's a lot of yelling there's a lot of these shows always about well interesting compelling and good things when we come back Sam Walker author of the Kaplan class here on our American store. Coke are 67000 u.s. 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This is our American stories and we continue our conversation with Sam Walker author of the capping class and for anybody out there who's listening leading anything and anyone who's a sports fan but even if you're not what a great discussion we were just talking about Tim Duncan probably the highest paid person to ever have written an academic psychology paper again in college Sam he coauthored one title blowhard snobs and narcissists into personal reactions to excessive egotism in the opening paragraph is the line quote Simply put we don't like egotistical people so we even as an undergrad Tim Duncan got it. It just shows you the level of intelligence and emotional intelligence that these great leaders have and I don't know I think I think that my sense was Ok I've never spoken to him about this and I was very proud of the paper but I think that really was who he was and that that research that he did really explained to him that who he was as a leader you don't look like a leader that you would you would pick out of a crowd and his teammates always said if you walked into practice you would never imagine that he was the leader of the team because he didn't he wasn't a lot's Loyce he was a huge presence of a charismatic person who barked out orders he didn't do any things that we use a supposed to do what I found in my book and what I hope is inspiring in it to people is that you know you may not think that you have your shit characteristics you need think that there are things that you just aren't good at but really the truth is that all of the things that these leaders were really about behavior and the choices that they made in the team context every day and behavior can be modeled leadership can be can be improved choice and he better and when you start to understand what leadership really involves and you start to separate out the myths then you can see why someone like Tim Duncan may not be the guy on posters in every kid's bedroom but he is by far the winningest and most effective leader of his generation you know his coach once said that Duncan didn't have an ounce of m.t.v. In him even agreed to be paid less than market value why did he do that what was he thinking on his agent must do Went to me What are you talking about you want the maximum so I can get the maximum commission what are you doing you know Tom Brady the same thing with the Patriots and you can restructure his contract every year so they can have more salary cap room to sign other players I mean it's that's what you do he's made more money I'm sure than he ever imagined he would make his life and as most of his players have and it's not an affectation that he cared about. The team and the team's result that's where all his satisfaction came from much more than is satisfaction from having more money in the bank or having you know yet another super car his garage and stuff to her and he's an incredible person and you know I have so much respect for him and I I do think that there's a lot of appreciation for him but he's often left out of the conversation and people talk about the greatest players of all time and I just don't understand it I don't understand this Hall of Fame mentality where you know we separate out an individual from is seen a it's to say this person deserves special praise I don't understand I mean I think they knew that they are whatever they are accomplishments were all depend on other people and you can't always divide a team that it's important parts it's less important parts one unit indeed I want to quote from the book because it's such a good quote and it's something we all know and experience in any workplace quote one of the great paradoxes of management is that the people who pursue leadership positions most ardently are often the wrong people for the job you then cited a study of superstar C.E.O.'s and now as they lift themselves up they often lower others in the process Tim Duncan in so many members of your Captain class they did the exact opposite talk about that. Well my favorite example of this is a woman named Carla over and I doubt that you mediately remember that. She was the captain of that great 1999 u.s. Women's soccer team that won the World Cup and you know really dominated that's Or for about 56 years just one of the best soccer teams of all time and you remember Mia Hamm and Julie Foudy and Brandi justin all the big stars of that team but there's a reason you don't know Carla over back it's because she did not care she did not won you know she was she had no interest in this volley whatsoever and a personal accolades and she was not the best player in the team she was under and you should never do anything flashy she never scored she you know would would pass the ball off the minute she got into one routine and it's and she you know she's played with this relentless pace but what was amazing about her that I think she understood what leadership is really about and it's really about service she was incredible with this because she did things I've never seen before when this team would go on a long road trip to Japan or Norway they would get to their hotel they'd be exhausted and they'd get a knock on the door and open it up and it was Carlo over back who was carrying their bags from the bus to their rooms for the captain of the team doing this as were who were coaches about this I said how is this leadership how does this help or be a leader and he said you know she knew exactly what she was doing because Carl Overbeck would do these things on behalf of her teammates and they understood that to her also cared about was the collective the team she did not care about herself to do anything for and this gave her a certain amount of currency like a bank account that she could spend when she needed and she would spend it on the field because the minute that someone messed up or was not focus you'd be all over or encouraging them when they did something great and it meant something everyone understood who she was. What she was all about and had great power when she did it in competition made the team better let's talk about football now one and 2 teams in particular 1st in 1970 s. Pittsburgh Steeler teams who is Jack Wennberg And why did you include him in this book most folks think of Terry Bradshaw when they think of the powerhouse Steeler team why was Jack Wennberg the guy you focused on but really the heart and soul that he was defense I mean he was extraordinary historically great defense and that was really the you know that you know that's him forward and this looked a moment to Jack Lambert showed up I mean this years and never want to Super Bowl 40 got there and you know never and now they're you know one more think than any other team and you know they are they are really a creation of Lambert's tenacious style and it's aggressive play and his relentlessness Jack Lambert was a player who had an understanding of something that all these these elite captains knew to some extent but I think used by the best example of it they understood the power of nonverbal communication of just gestures they understood that there were moments where they needed do something in full view of their teammates that would show their level of passion is that would transfer to them and allow play harder and Jack Lemmon was famous of course for the last a couple teeth and I school playing pickup basketball any how depressed that it denture that he wore in public but he would take it off on the field so they had a toothless you know mouth and he would scare people so that was part of it but my favorite chocolate ever story that I think shows you the genius of his leadership was that they were playing a game I believe in 1976 and they had won the Super Bowl but they started one in 4 people written them off like it's over for the Steelers and they had to win this in that the Bengals and he want to play up. 5 games career in terms of the number of tackles you covered fumbles he basically accounted for most esteemed points single handedly so it was an incredible game but on the middle of this game he had came to the end he had a cut on his hand and he bandaged it up and you know he went out there and of course the band just failed in the blood starts burning out it was all over uniforms pants I mean it was a mess I tracked down one of the trainers and I asked him why didn't you just rewrap that bad when it came off the field or changes uniform have time or something and he said your stand his exact Lambert loves you know for and he understood how powerful that message was and how how much harder it made his teammates play and how much intimidate its opponents and he did that on purpose and Jack lever did all kinds of things that might seem crazy on him but when you listen to talk about it and he always says that these were calculated acts these were things that I did you know on purpose because I understood the power they would have hours to affect half of the team and you know that's one of the reasons that the team was so good and so consistently and won 4 Super Bowls and 6 years which their team is and what a great story telling and when we come back the final segment with Sam Walker more stories to come author of the captain class this is our American story. 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In the Wall Street Journal sports section and author of the captain Quest the hidden force that creates the world's greatest teams it's a terrific read go to Amazon dot com and order it you won't be disappointed I had to read something to you Sam from quarterback John Elway of course he played in Denver and this was him talking about Jack Lambert and by the way he was a rookie and here's what he wrote Lambert had no teeth he was slobbering all over himself and I'm thinking you can have your money back just get me outta here let me go be an accountant I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there and so you were talking about all this nonverbal communication my goodness it didn't just fire up his team it scared the heck out of the opponents about courage and how captains develop it. You know a lot of it comes from emotional control and you know we don't think of Jack Lambert as being someone who was emotionally controlled but like all of these great athletes you know he was not someone who got in trouble off the field I mean he was not someone who got in a lot of brawls and none of these campus there were really very quiet off the field Jack levels really have an introverted private person I mean he was a big reader and you know a road trip he would he would often just fit his room reading a book I mean he wasn't an outsized character that aggression that he had on the field didn't translate to the rest of the life and that was going to solve all of these athletes and you know I think it's a way of redefining courage because you know he poured everything into football and all of his aggression always passed everything you know he would he would put it all out on the field and you know when he wasn't there he had this incredible ability to shut it off and to kind of return to normal and to to be a quieter person and you know that's a form of courage that we don't really understand its ability to control your emotions you know being able to do that you know it's not courage in the sense of Rio running up the hill in a rain of bullets and some big military battle but it's a different sort of courage that I think is very contagious because I think people see you dealing with your emotions that way being able to control the knee able to target them toward objectives and I think it gives everyone a better understanding of how to operate a team environment and what courage really is let's talk about Tom Brady at the University of Michigan where he played as a collegian no one could imagine what would have been in store for him as an n.f.l. Player he was a 6th round draft pick and the trouble keeping the starting job in college the last . Does your Henson it was you know full to be the next great you know quarterback the 2nd coming of you know Joe Montana Yeah no he went through a lot and you know. The fact that he even got on the field was a fluke because he only got to play because when the serious injury to Drew Bledsoe and it really shows you you know that it's very easy sometimes to not look inside someone I mean I think he had great talent physical talent and you know we've seen many facets of that Michigan but what was really lurking inside him was incredible leadership ability and you know also great tactical mind and all those things that you know I think scouts too often dismiss Brady was tough because you know Brady's accomplishments I know everyone loves to talk about Brady and greatness of the Patriots but you know until I believe this season when they made another Super Bowl and won 88 straight after championship games you know their record was very similar to the 49 ers in that long stretch where they were very dominant so same number of Super Bowls roughly the same winning percentage so I had a very hard time saying either one of those teams was unique so initially for the hard cover I didn't put the Patriots and but later on I after they made that Super Bowl I decided put them in because I thought their record clearly outpaced the 49 ers But the thing about Brady that stands out to me the most beyond his leadership quality is his relationship as coach and that is something that is fascinating to me and I said the coaches weren't the important factor the crucial factor and I don't think they are but what's really important in these great teams with coaches is that they have a partnership with their captain and I saw this over and over again it was in a boss employee kind of relationship Bill Belichick in Tom Brady 'd had this relationship that was unusual it was like the relationship Tim Duncan had Greg Popovich to it was very affectionate and there's a lot of love between them but. They knew how to fight and they would fight all the time they would come into conflict about tactics never personal it was always about how teams play Bella tech would go to team meetings in front of everyone for mistakes and granny would take it and it would tell everyone that no one is above the team but you know if Tom Brady isn't like the Super Bowl playbook that he was given he would tell him to rip it up and start over so that partners I think was really under rated if you remember that 1st season Tom Brady can't use a 6th round draft pick no one thought was anything and Bill Belichick was a guy who got fired at Cleveland no one thought had the chops to be a head coach and together they became 2 of the legends of football but I don't think you can separate them I don't think it was something they could have achieved individually I think that partnership in their ability to work together was so important and I think the message for coaches and people managers and people who are trying to assemble teams with this kind of leadership model is that you've got to pick someone to lead that team that you can really partner with and that you respect and that you can really treat is a peer I think that's true and there was a balance of power you wrote about in a mutual respect and that fighting wasn't a bad thing and you equate the great captains and coaches to married couples I was lucky to see a great marriage my mom and dad would fight like cats and dogs and it was over right after the fight and then I'd see him loving each other and then when they disagreed they'd go at it and it was respect for each other and they taught me how to fight which is a wonderful thing people who can disagree and then carry on you're giving the greatest gift in the world. It's true so under-rated and it's funny because especially in sports there's this weird sense that conflict is that you know there are there's there are certain players and in think about these captains when they were not. I mean they would push back on anything they didn't think was the best interest of the team but it was something big or small they would push back against the coaches they were prospectus or teammates as well they were willing to stand apart and you talk about courage in that's an under-rated form of courage it's the ability to just dissent from the group and science to actually shown that that there is a an element of physical discomfort that comes with banning a part so it's something that's not easy to do and yet it's so crucial you know all the studies that have been done a team performance show. That teams that really work together in in close ways as they do in sports a certain level of conflict is sensual but there's a different kind of conflict there's 2 kinds really there's a kind of conflict a called Task conflict which is really about an argument about process about how the team is doing something or how they should do something and there's another form of conflict which is personal conflict this is one of the sort of the conflict is really just I don't like and there's a real difference at all these cabins whenever they introduce conflict in their teens they mean a huge point to makes clear that it wasn't personal they never singled out individuals they never blamed any one person it was always about the collective and it was always about the task in the process and it's a huge difference it's so easy to mistake those 2 things and look at someone who is creating conflict as a bad thing when you're not really necessary looking at why they're doing it or how they're doing it and that was one of the real secrets I feel like I'm covering something I had no idea about until I really took our look at it Sam You wrote something fascinating about all these captains that they were more like jazz musicians than conductors and that they freely improvised on and off the court to get the job done. It was one of the things I had never considered when I think about teams but there was a famous researcher named Richard Hackman who was a Harvard psychologist who passed away a few years ago he spent all his career imbedded with performance teams that do things in real time whether airplane cockpit crews or emergency room units or even Symphony Orchestra's and he would watch the way leadership work and what he discovered was so does act really parallel to what I found in these teams which is that the lead here is charisma and talent that. It just wasn't a factor you could have a take and not have it didn't really make it different. All that mattered in fact in terms of leadership inside a group is that every single important function of leadership gets done that's it you know anything that needs to be done in order to help the team from leadership perspective long as someone does it doesn't have to be the leader it can be somebody else and all these great teams what you saw was that these captains had established themselves as the person who would do anything if there's a burning building that no one else wants to go into they're going to go into it and once that's established and basically everyone on the team whether a superstar or bench player understands that they're free to do their jobs and focus on what they need to do and if they want to contribute to leadership they can they can do with the ways they want to do the things that they're good at where it's mentorship or you know being the sparkplug or being sheriff or doing something else to help the team as a group and you start to see this happening this beautiful symphony that starts where everyone who does what they're good at and everyone pitches in and every single function of leadership gets taken care of and a great leader will never feel territorial never feel unhappy that someone is doing a leadership function because frankly this is a hard job being a great leader you know and sustaining actual incident credibly taxing and difficult and anyone who's doing it the right way will be so happy to have help and assistance from others well in this book will help others and assist them too we've been talking to Sam Walker the founding editor of The Wall Street Journal sports section and author of the captain class the hidden force to create the world's greatest teams pick it up on Amazon I promise you you will not be disappointed and Sam thanks so much for doing this and by the way go to our American Network dot org to hear all that we do sign up for our free newsletter 5 best stories each week to come in audio form in print form and again all you have to do is give us your e-mail address go to our American Network dot org The captain 20. 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