But they have not arrested him. Fox w5s fox landry tells us the dead mans grieving family wants to know why not. Is that a friend of yours . My son. This afternoon we met tracy martin at the crime scene. He says his 17yearold son, Trayvon Martin was shot to death. He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store. The guy on the bottom who i believed had a red sweater on was yelling to me, help, help. I told him to stop and i was calling 911. The family of 17yearold Trayvon Martin is asking the state attorneys office, attorney general and Sanford Police to prosecute the miami teenagers killer. In this case, mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of selfdefense. Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we dont have the grounds to arrest him. Outraged residents asked the Sanford Police department to show accountability. If this young man would have shot this man, wouldnt he have been arrested . He definitely would have been arrested. My heart hurts for my son. Trayvon is my son. Trayvon is your son. Justice equals peace. Yes. Which means no justice no peace. Crowds gather in florida, and for that matter in cities and towns across the country brought together in their outrage over the killing of an unarmed teenager in florida. Hundreds of students walked out of more than a dozen schools in Trayvon Martins hometown of miami. From 30th street station, Peaceful Protesters marched about 15 blocks hoping their price for justice reach hundreds of miles away from sanford, florida. Massive support continues to spread across the country. From atlanta, to new york, and chicago. Thousands donned hoodies in church in solidarity with Trayvon Martin. The miami heat where many town friday night sure to beat the pistons, but also used the game to make a statement about how they feel about a teen from their area, Trayvon Martin. A lot of us are fathers, a lot of us have young boys. You know, if our boys can help in any kind of way, thats what were going to do. When i think about this boy, i think about my own kids, and i think every parent in america should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this. And the online groundswell continues to build. 1. 2 Million People have signed the martin familys internet petition demanding zimmermans arrest. The special prosecutor has charged George Zimmerman with seconddegree murder. George zimmerman, 28 years old, was taken into custody. Today we filed an information charging George Zimmerman with murder in the is Second Degree. A capias has been issued for his arrest. Do you feel you wouldnt be here for this interview if you didnt have that gun . No, sir. You feel you would not be here . I feel that it was all gods plan and for me to second guess it, or judge it on april 11th, 2012, special prosecutor angela corey filed a charge of murder in the Second Degree against George Zimmerman. He pleaded not guilty claiming selfdefense. More than a year later after 12 days of testimony and 2 days of deliberation, the jury reached its verdict. Were going to go to craig melvin right now. Craig, what do you got . We have a verdict, chris jansing. The p. I. O. For courthouse indicated a verdict has been reached in the murder trial of George Zimmerman. In the Circuit Court for seminole county, florida, state of florida versus George Zimmerman. Verdict, we the jury find George Zimmerman not guilty. So say we all, foreperson. To the living we owe respect. To the dead we owe the truth. We have been respectful to the living. We have done our best to assure due process to all involved. And we believe that we brought out the truth on behalf of Trayvon Martin. I think the evidence supported that George Zimmerman did nothing wrong and he was battered and beaten by a 17yearold, for whatever reason, we wont know, thought that he had to lash out and attack violently. To everybody who put their hoodies up and to everybody who said, i am trayvon, his family expressed their heartfelt gratitude for helping them these past 17 months. So far the paranoid predictions of mass race riots have not come true. That does not mean there is not fury and anger. There have been Peaceful Demonstrations and Prayer Services across the country, and the anger and deep disappointment has as much to do with the context of this verdict as the verdict, itself. A perception that in America Justice is not blind. Home, were just walking home were just walking home there are now questions of a possible civil trial and continuing Justice Department investigation as well as some astounding postverdict remarks by zimmermans Defense Attorneys about the prosecution of George Zimmerman being a disgrace. Well also look at why the stand your ground law was somehow not available to Marissa Alexander, a 31yearold black woman who felt threatened by an estranged husband in the same state and under the jurisdiction of the same state attorney, angela corey, who oversaw the zimmerman prosecution. Well get to all of that. First, we are all still processing what this verdict says about equal justice under law. Joining me on satellite is Melissa Harrisperry, host of the show that airs right here on msnbc, on saturday and sunday mornings at 10 00 a. M. And joining me here at the table, is msnbc political analyst Michael Eric Dyson, professor of sociology at georgetown university. And maya wiley, civil rights attorney and founder and president of the center if social inclusion, a social justice nonprofit. Melissa, i want to begin with you. You were incredibly compelling and eloquent and emotional in what you said on saturday night, and on sunday. How are you feeling about the fallout from the verdict now, today on monday . Well, you know, chris, i think you and i have talked before, when weve you got, initially had your weekend show about a year before i got the m. H. P. Show and how odd it felt as people who werent initially journalists to suddenly have a tv show in this way. I have to say this weekend was maybe one of the first times when i felt really not up to the task, that a lot of the personal rawness of the Emotional Experience was potentially overcoming anything that i had to say. And i dont say that because anybody should have sort of feelings for me about it, but rather that i think im not completely an outlier in that and many of us are going through multiple stages of grief and fury and resignation and also trying to analyze it. Its not as though we believe that any verdict, of course, would bring back young trayvon. I mean, that was never on the table as a possibility, but there is this sense of alienation from the state that compounds the sense of agony in this case. Do you feel like, michael . I think thats a fascinating way of putting it, alienation from the state that somehow were not playing by the same rules, were not covered by the same system that we have been pushed outside the tent by this verdict. Absolutely right. And melissa is absolutely right there. Verdict. Truth. But its not our truth. And the alienation from the state, especially ironic, in light of the fact that the ostensible or head of that state is a black man and the head of the Justice System is another black man. Yet we know now that symbolic representation of our enormous progress undeniable is juxtaposed to the reality, the system, robin kelly makes this argument in a brilliant piece in counterpunch. He said its not that the system failed us, the system worked as its supposed to work because the system has been rigged against us from the very beginning. Weve never been able to stand our ground because the system has protected white peoplehood, White Property and White Privilege and thats the bottom line. Maya . I i was a little undone by your opening clips. I thought i had gotten to a point where the raw emotion of that, seeing sybrina say, this is my son, this is your son. Its very much still present. What i think is most important, which, and i agree with both melissa and michael, the Justice System is not a just system. And one of the most damaging, damaging to the fabric of the nation and damaging to the reform is that we now have people saying, Trayvon Martin was convicted. Not George Zimmerman was acquitted because there was not sufficient proof but that Trayvon Martin was convicted of a crime. Right. There was this incredible i have to say that i have i have actually tried very hard throughout the trial to kind of give the defense the benefit of the doubt, as human beings because they are i have a lot of respect for Defense Attorneys. And its a hard job and they are doing their constitutional duty to defend their client and with as much zeal and vigor as they can. I thought the press, the postverdict press conference was an abomination, was just an absolute because you dont have to do that. Theres nothing you have to do about that press conference. I want to play this one clip, because this was the one that really, like, really made me angry. This is don west and mark omara. Take a look. I think the prosecution of George Zimmerman was disgraceful. As happy as i am for George Zimmerman, im thrilled that this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty. I think that the things would have been different if George Zimmerman was black for this reason. He never would have been charged with a crime. Melissa, did that so what i appreciate about what you just said is something i think we have to keep in mind here that is critical going forward, and that, you know, thats right, George Zimmerman was absolutely, constitutionally had the right to a vigorous defense. These Defense Attorneys put on a vigorous defense. I think theres a lot of reasons to ask about how vigorous the prosecution was. That said, what we are now looking at is sort of the social and political and economic construction that comes around this case and thats the thing thats bigger than the actual trial, itself. You know, someone said this thing on twitter, i think it was a guy named jim henley who i really like and follow. He said, you know, i hope i have one thought, i hope George Zimmerman goes home tonight and thinks about what he did and what happened, but there is this world awaiting him that wants to embrace him as a hero. Theres an entire universe to whom he has become hes been made on icon. I ran into my hotel that evening, ran into George Zimmermans best friend. We had a vigorous, nonhostile conversation for 20 minutes. I said to him, sir, your friend just murdered an unarmed young man. He said, but there was no probable cause for him to be arrested. I said, were not only speaking different languages, were living in different universes. There is a world awaiting George Zimmerman that will support him economically, that will make him an icon. Hes become a kind of patron saint of the right wing in a very serious way. And seeing the reaction to the verdict, this crazy, you know, way the verdict was processed through the american lens of both racial polarization and partisan polar statiizatoin just, like they converged. On the one hand for the Defense Attorneys to say this was not about race, and then on the other hand to come out and say if George Zimmerman was a blackman, he wouldnt be charged, is to say were actually trying to say it is about race and were trying to flip the script. The other thing i found so fascinating is this conservative obsession with zimmermans race, the fact that he is that he is not white. The thing i keep saying is, it is about Trayvon Martins race. This case. I mean, when sean bell was shot by new york cops, some of which who happened to be africanamerican, the people i know, the activists in new york were not like, its okay because some of the cops were black. Its about this chris, this is such an important point. Ive been hearing in the days sens since, this language, were all racist in some ways. I. To be really clear. Sure, we are. Were all racist against africanamericans. Its not that were all racists and black folks are racist against whites. There is a Constant Group for whom there is this sense of criminality, a sense of, you know, being takers, not makers. And that is shared even among often members of that group because of how our media operates and because of how a deep history of segregation and the continuing realities of that segregation operate to reinforce those beliefs about blackness and black bodies. Melissa, i want you to speak around. Were going to bring in congressman Hakeem Jeffries to talk about what could happen at the federal level after we take this break. Many with our panel coming up including our very own Melissa Harris perry whos written a personal account about a conversation with her daughter about the race and zimmerman trial. Its posted at msnbc. Com. Were asking viewers to send their stories online. Send them to mhpmail msnbc. Com. Or use caringforourchildren. Well be right back. [ male announcer ] usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. Because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaas commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy, get an Auto Insurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. [ herbie ] theres no doubt about it brent, a real gate keeper. Heres kevin, the new boyfriend. Lamb to the slaughter. Thats right brent. Moms baked cookies but hell be lucky to make it inside. And heres the play. Oh dad did not see this coming. [ crowd cheering ] now if kevin can just seize the opportunity. Its looking good, herbie. Hes seen it. Its all over. Nothing but daylight. Yes id love a cookie. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. The allnew nissan sentra. When the defense say that mr. Zimmerman wont see a courthouse again, that is not true. Zimmerman will have to testify in a civil suit. You cannot avoid that. And his testimony could lead to some very interesting new evidence. The federal government, the Justice Department, suspended an investigation. They did not end it. That was my colleague, the reverend al sharpton, commenting on the contention of George Zimmermans defense attorney, mark omara. Zimmerman would not see another day in court. Joining me now, congressman Hakeem Jeffries, from new york. With me, Michael Eric Dyson, maya wiley and Melissa Harris perry. You did a press event to talk about what possible investigation might be pursued at the federal level. What avenueses of redress are there for people that feel that justice was not done in that courtroom or even if the verdict was right and proper based on the evidence that jury saw, that the larger sense that something wrong here that should be held to account has gone unaddressed . Congressman rangel, congressman meeks, members of the new york delegation, one wanted to support the continuation of the Justice Department investigation as it relates to the civil Rights Violations that we believe took place in the killing of Trayvon Martin. We also wanted to make sure that it was a comprehensive investigation that ultimately led to the presentation of evidence to a grand jury so that the grand jury can decide whether the civil rights of Trayvon Martin were violated. That a Justice Department that ultimately yields no prosecution will only result in a further continuation of the frustration and dismay we have with the system at this point. Yeah, maya . Whats really point here, we need an evidentiary change of law because the Justice Department is facing the problem that it has to show generally some form of smoking gun. George zimmerman saying fing punch, which we all read as the code about him being black, and therefore, a criminal, is not generally enough even though thats the code. Right. Melissa, i mean, when i think about the politics of this also, i mean, we have seen the president issued a statement that was fairly, fairly neutral, it was kind of thoughtful about the loss of the life, but it certainly didnt say take sides or say this verdict was unjust. It called for peace and reflection. You can only i mean, seeing what was on drudge in the runup to this, seeing the way the right wing has stirred themselves up on this, the fact hannity got the first interview with George Zimmerman. You can only imagine, melissa, what would happen if president obama and eric holders Justice Department were to indict George Zimmerman on federal civil rights charges, right . I mean, yes, but i can also only imagine sort of what would happen if they dont. In terms of their base of support. Amen. So i just want to be really careful. I think the challenge here is when the department of justice brings these kinds of charges, they typically do it, with, as maya was saying, sort of a smoking gun piece of evidence. The problem is, maya and i have been talking about this for days now, is what racism is is not necessarily reflected in our laws. The notion that racism requires you to sort of spout forth these particular kinds of words, rather than an understanding that it is a racial context in which people are operating. Right. I think in terms of the to piggyback on that, in terms of what the politicians do, this is a moment that the president , i think, can seize to assert a bully pulpit report to suggest that beyond the law, lets have an open, honest engagement with the context that melissa is speaking about, because were talking about implicit assumptions. Were talking about explicit assumpti assumption, the jumble of stereotypes. This is implicated in a range of practices that have to be acknowledged and addressed. Congressman . We have had several incidents where there have been highprofile cases that have failed, in the beating of rodney king, acquittal, allwhite jury, simi valley. With videotape. With videotape. Not necessarily a smoking gun in terms of racial animus. Right. Same situation with the choking death of anthony baez by Police Officer francis lavoty. Acquittal in the bronx. Subsequent prosecution by manhattan federal prosecutors that was successful. And in an instance where an africanamerican stabbed an Orthodox Jewish man, rosenbaum, in new york, was acquitted by a brooklyn jury and subsequently prosecuted for a hate crime violation by the Justice Department in the absence of a smoking gun of racial animus. Precedence does exist to move forward. Thats a very important point. Its a critically important point. Precedence matters. My point, if we telescope out and take a broader frame, at the end of the day we have got to reform our laws so that were not because right now the attack is on all evidentiary standards and any race case. Not just this one. The right is taking on what we call disparate impact which is whether or not we can look at the impacts of our decisionmaking on a whole group of people. And, in fact, the Voting Rights action, section 5, section 4 was essentially i mean, not on the same legal logic but the historic understanding of, because racial bias, because it no longer announces itself facially as racial bias has left the playing field. Were trying to out it to make sure let me say this and go to you, melissa. I also think its really important to distinguish that between this, a judgment that George Zimmerman has a human being is a racist. That word attached to him is an essential feature of his character. I have no idea. I know what ive seen, im pretty damn sure of, the race of Trayvon Martin played a huge role in what happened that night because of a suspicion that attached to him as a young black man, that was going through George Zimmermans head. I feel like what ends up happening is the right wants us to litigate a discussion about what is in the heart, what is in the soul, what is the thing we kpaent cant see . That is not the point, right, melissa . Chris, this is why communities are reacting with terror, grief, and sadness. Its not because we think our child is going to walk down the street and meet up with George Zimmerman. Its not because we think there is some one individual bad actor out there. It is, to underline the point that mike said earlier, and robin kelly, brilliant historian and social critic wrote about, it is because this is the law working. We can actually see this jury probably made socalled the right decision based on the evidence presented to them under florida law. The thing that is terrifying is the very idea these sets of laws are set up to allow and encourage the circumstances that will lead to the death of africanamerican people, young people, children, and, by the way, let me also make very clear, women. Because the other group of people who are deeply impacted by this are folks in circumstances of domestic violence. We know it about Marissa Alexander which you will talk about later. Basically vulnerable populations are made more vulnerable by a set of policies that say this is a system in which you will not be protected, even after youre dead. Melissa harris perry, host of the show Melissa Harris perry. Congressman Hakeem Jeffries. Msnbc political analyst, Michael Eric Dyson and maya wiley from the center of social inclusion. Thank you, all. If you are young and black in this country, the verdict communicates something very specific. You are suspicious until proven otherwise. Ill talk with a young black man whos experienced that firsthand, coming up. Ll rolling. In cities like charlotte, atlanta, and chicago, were revving people up to take a lap around the legendary nascar race track with drivers from the cocacola racing family. Cocacoca family track walks give thousands of race fans the chance to get out, get moving, and have fun. All along the way. Its part of our goal to inspire more than three Million People to rediscover the joy of being active this summer. 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Read and consider it carefully before investing. Risk includes possible loss of principal. Do i look suspicious . Do i look suspicious . Contrary to what america has led many to believe, all young black males are not suspicious. We dont deserve to be harassed, murdered, prosecuted, not protected by the Justice System all because america believes we are suspicious. Do i look suspicious . Do i look suspicious . Unfortunately, for trayvon, who would never know what was in store for him, all because america believed this innocent child was suspicious. My name is howard conday, proud alum of the Howard School university of law and Howard University school of business. We all are not suspicious. Great video made by some alums and students at Howard University about suspicion. The suspicion that attaches to black men in our society. Joining me now is cofound and executive of brotherhood sister soul. And nicholas, a former client of the brotherhood sister soul. Now an Afterschool Program facilitator there and plaintiff in a Class Action Lawsuit against the controversial stop and frisk tactic new york city Police Department uses. You have to work with young folks that are constantly having interactions particularly in new york city with police but not just the police in which they are objects of suspicion. What are you going to tell them . What were you telling them today after this kind of verdict . What message does that send . As soon as the verdict came down on saturday, my phone started ringing, vibrating, every message that was possible. People were dealing with the trauma of the verdict. People were dealing with the pain of the verdict. Feeling like their lives did not matter. We can sometimes lose sight of the fact that a black boy was killed. A black boy was killed and he was killed in the space of a long line of black boys and young men who have been killed in this country. People say, were not suspicious, were not all a threat. Our young people feel they are seen as threats and thats part of the historical on text as being seen as threats, black men and boys in this country. Nicholas, you wrote this opped for the times about the experience of being stopped and frisked numerous times. I want to read a section of it. I remember reading it in the times. I was stunned and scared. There i was on the ground with a gun pointed at me. I couldnt see what was happening but feel a policemans hand reach into my pocket and remove my wallet. Essentially i incorporated into my daily life the sense i might find myself up against the wall or on the ground with an officers gun to my head. For a black man in his 20s like me, its a fact of life in new york. Do you feel you are suspicious, when you walk through the streets of new york, you have to think of others perception of you in that moment so youre allaying their fears of what you might be . Thats the reality we have, you know, you have to worry about, you know, a Police Officer is thinking and what an Authority Figure is thinking. Being stopped on 96th street on my 18th birthday, i felt i didnt belong there. That was the only conclusion i could come up with for me being stopped. That was a message from the police you should stick to where you do belong and not be somewhere you arent. Thats what i thought. This happens several hundred thousand times, several hundred thousand times. 94 of those stopped are innocent so its extremely alarming. It also creates the societal message that you do have something to hide. I mean, it gets incorporated into your psychology. Right . It certainly does. The psychological consequences of it and feeling like this is a normal thing after a certain amount of stops. You know, these are people who work for the city. The state of new york. And you have them stopping young people. And i think its extremely alarming when you have a young person who hasnt been stopped and, you know, the only conclusion they could come up with is, oh, i was hanging out late at night. This is something that the mayor said about stop and frisk. Obviously in the case of George Zimmerman, were dealing with someone who was a former Neighborhood Watch person, was not an official arm of law. The suspicion attached to Trayvon Martin is similar in many respects to the suspicion that young men of color particularly in new york city carry around. This is mayor bloomberg defending stop and frisk. Take a listen. Theres a couple of one newspaper and one news service, they keep saying, its a disproportionate percentage of a particular ethnic group. That may be, but its not a disproportionate percentage of those who witnesses and victims describe as committing the murder. In that case, incidentally, i think we disproportionately stop whites too much and minorities too little. What did you make of that comment . You know, i think its an extremely distressing comment by the mayor. First off, it is disingenuous and not based in factual evidence. The mayor conflates murder suspects with 530,000 stops last year. There were not 530,000 stops in new york city last year because of murder suspects. There were less than 500 murders. The mayor is putting two numbers together that do not correlate. Instead what stop and frisk is to police certain communities and make them fearful to walk down the street, to make them fearful of the police. That is the result of this practice. It has nothing to do with homicide. So when he says that and hes not called to task on it hes able to put this false narrative forward. Has that been successful, nicholas, in the way you think about walking down the streets in new york . Has it made you fearful . Certainly. When i have to when i know im more likely to be stopped at night in my own neighborhood, thats a problem. Let me ask you, i mean, one question around this when you conflate this issue with whats happened with George Zimmerman, when black children are talked to by their parents, theyre often told, you know, to deal with the police in a very particular way. Not to run, to talk to them, to look them in the eye. Keep your hands absolutely. This is the talk you get. Now lets look at the zimmerman case. Here you have a situation where a man whos not a Police Officer pulls up in a dark car with a gun and says he wants to talk to you. Any parent would say, dont stop and talk to them. Run at all costs. So what are children suppose to be told when walking down the street . What is the lesson for young black men . If everyone can be a freelance arm of the law. Where do we draw the line . What is the freedom . Do black young men not have the right to pursue happiness and life and liberty . Federal law and the constitution and declaration of independence not supersede florida in its stand your ground law . They have a right to be free. The ground was trayvons just like it was George Zimmermans. Khary lazarrewhite. And youth activist nicholas peart. As the nation grapples over what the outcome of the Trayvon Martin murder case means for the role race plays in our Justice System, another florida case is getting new attention. Just wait until you hear why this florida mother was sentenced to 20 years in prison and who successfully prosecuted her. [ mortazavi ] im definitely a perfectionist. Details are really important during four course. I want to make sure that everything is perfect. Thats why i do what i do. [ male announcer ] its red lobsters just 14. 99. Start your feast with a choice of soup, then salad, plus biscuits next, choose one of nine amazing entrees like new coconut and citrus grilled shrimp or linguini with shrimp and scallops. Then finish with dessert. 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There are people out there who actually hate him though they shouldnt. In meantime, we have our First Official posttrial cash in. A juror signed with a literary a agent to cowrite along with her husband. The juror has already conducted a Television Interview during which her identity was concealed. Its not clear if she will extend her anonymity to the dust jacket of this upcoming tellall. Coming up, theres another case in florida that didnt work out like George Zimmermans did. It involves a black woman who got 20 years in prison for firing what she calls a warning shot at her estranged husband after a physical altercation. That storys coming up. This man is about to be the millionth customer. Would you mind if i go ahead of you . Instead we had someone go ahead of him and win fifty thousand dollars. Congratulations you are our one millionth customer. Nobody likes to miss out. Thats why ally treats all their customers the same. Whether youre the first or the millionth. 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We have done our best to assure due process to all involved. And we believe that we brought out the truth on behalf of Trayvon Martin. Our hearts, as always, go out to our victims family and all victims of crime. But as long as they know that there will always be prosecutors fighting for the truth, i think that victims will continue to rely on this Justice System. Florida state attorney angela corey who oversaw the failed prosecution of George Zimmerman in what can only be described at best as a pretty tonedeaf appearance. That was not angela coreys first time in front of the cameras in a highprofile case. Heres another case that angela corey prosecuted, albeit far more successfully. In 2010, coreys office charged Marissa Alexander with aggravated assault with a Deadly Weapon after she fired a bullet at a wall in 2010, what she described as a warning shot to scare off her abusive husband during an altercation. Two children were in the house, but no one was hurt. Alexander argued she fired the weapon in selfdefense against her estranged husband whos twice been arrested for domestic battery. She tried to invoke floridas now famous stand your ground law. Angela corey argued the stand your gun law did not apply because alexander acted in anger. Saying by returning to the house after she got the gun, she showed he was not in near of her life. In may of 2010, Marissa Alexander was sentenced to 20 years in prison. That 20year sentence is required under floridas mandatory minimum gun law. After alexanders family urged leniency in the sentencing, judge daniel described the issue as out of my hands, saying the legislature has not given me the discretion to do what the family and others asked me to do. Congresswoman karim brown represents jacksonville where Marissa Alexander is from. Heres how she reacted to the case. This is the beginning, not the end. Thats right. This is the beginning. Clearly there is institutional racism. There is no way. She overcharged by the prosecutor. Period. Overcharged. She never should have been charged. She sure shouldnt have. And how in jacksonville you shoot in the air and no one gets hurt, and you gets 20 years. Marissa alexanders jury was out just 12 minutes before they convicted her. Its hard in the wake of the zimmerman verdict not to put these two cases up for comparison and come to some pretty awful conclusions about the state of justice in florida. Joining me now at the table, jehlani cobb, associate professor of history, director of the institute for africanamerican studies at the university of connecticut. Barry shack, civil rights attorney, cofounder and codirector of the innocence project. And joining me from jacksonville is congresswoman corrine brown, democrat from florida. Congresswoman, ill begin with you and ask you why youve paid such careful attention to this case. What about this case has captured your imagination and precipitated your advocacy . First of all, let me just tell you that sanford, florida, is also in my district and my heart is just so heavy for the martin family. You need to know that. And i contacted the Justice Department as soon as this incident happened along with the Congressional Black Caucus and asked them to investigate. Now, the case in jacksonville, Melissa Alexander has a masters degree. Never had any trouble with the law. And the case shows that she was abused, beaten, put in the hospital pregnant with a baby of this, her husband at the time. She shot a warning shot. She was overcharged and got 20 years. The week before, someone convicted of murder got 15 years. Let me just say that the criminal Justice System is not working for the people that i represent. Its not working for not just blacks, but poor people. Something needs to happen and you cant not just expect the president or the congressperson, but youve got to arm your stuff, youve got to be registered. Youve got to vote that ballot. Youve got to vote for the attorney general, the judges. I mean, everybody got to do their part because this is unacceptable. Barry, let me ask you about mandatory minimums. Thats a huge part of this case. It seems like this is one of those cases, you see them occasionally, judges will just say essentially without saying it, this is ridiculous, this is a ridiculous sentence, i wish i tnt have to. Mandatory minimums have been a huge trend in american criminal justice and do lead to a lot of unjust outcomes. Thats the number one reason weve had this skyrocketing increase in incarceration, overcriminalization. Its destroying our misdemeanor courts, destroying felony courts. Disproportionate number of people in prison in this country, particularly by race, is unimaginable. That should be the one great thing that comes out of this Trayvon Martin case, that, you know, congressman jeffries is actually having an overcriminalization hearing in the house. And they had five republicans and five democrats appointed to this commission. You have the right on crime people. Mark levin and others are taking seriously this whole issue of overcriminalization. So the first thing, as the congresswoman said, is that the judge had no choice. But this case was overcharged. And i want to say, i wonder if the congresswoman agrees that angela coreys predecessor, Harry Shorestein would have never, ever charged this case. Never. Never. He never would have charged her like this. Never. And congresswoman and youre talking about someone that had no priors. A person who had a masters degree, had a job. And it was an incident. Right. One incident. And the week before, a person got convicted of murder and got 15 years, and the next week she got sentenced to 20 years. And i want you to know when i talk to my colleagues and ive talked to different groups and organizations around the country, its hard for them to believe that a person could actually get 20 years for firing a warning shot and no one got hurt, but yet, in sanford, you kill a youth and, yet, youre not guilty. Im not comparing it, but its something wrong with the system, and we need to double down and change the law. Thats the state legislators. We need judges to give them more discretion. Yep. We need to we need to deal with the criminal Justice System. And let me just say one thing, as a mother, we tell our children, do not talk to strangers. Right. And we work with them to talk with the police force. But George Zimmerman was not a Police Officer. He had no business saying anything to that young man. None whatsoever. I think everyone agrees they wish that that he had stayed in the car that night. Congresswoman corrine brown, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Well be right back. I want to talk about this overcriminalization right after this. [ tap ] [ tap ] cause tonight [ tap ] well share the same dream at the dark end of the street you and me you and me you and me we offered her three years and kept that open. No, maam, three years in the prison which is down 17 years of of the 20 years. And we offered that to her and kept the offer open until right before she chose to go to a jury. You asked, did we show her mercy . We offered her a plea bargain. Thats what we offer in cases where we weigh. Thats state attorney angela corey who was a prosecutor in the George Zimmerman case. Explaining her decision to offer a plea to Marissa Alexander. She did not take that plea. Shes now doing 20 years in prison. Still with me, jelani cobb from university of connecticut. And mr. Scheck. There are differences, but side by side in the same jurisdiction, what do you see . The thing i find most striking about this is she brought charges. She brought these charges against miss alexander voluntarily. She didnt have to. They were forced, essentially, by political pressures, and ongoing mass demonstrations to bring the charges against mr. Zimmerman. So what it says to me is that she found this case more palatable. Despite the fact that thereses exculpatory evidence here, there is a track record of domestic violence. The exhusband, the estranged husband did say he had been violent toward her and two previous women describing punching his exwife in the mouth. There are the instances of the restraining orders. And so this gives you a reason to say this persons life is in jeopardy. And i think part of what makes the what made the verdict so hard to swallow on saturday night in the broad context is the fact that the way the criminal Justice System works is that we all got to see this trial which is great, and the system working, and the reasonable doubt and a very vigorous defense, which i think is a very welldone defense in the context of putting on a defense, right . Most of the american criminal Justice System looks absolutely nothing like that. I mean, you look at this, it looks nothing like that. Nothing like it, and the overcharging, though, by angela corey, in this Marissa Alexander case, is so troubling. Given the fact that the abusive husband, admittedly abusive husband, at one point recants his testimony, then flips back at the time of the trial. The son had recanted. You know, shes giving these statements that, oh, she went into the garage and came back and therefore shes not entitled to stand your ground. When she went into the garage, she couldnt get out. She was looking for her keys. Thats why she brought the gun back. I mean, it just is the kind of case that screams out for the exercise of prosecutorial discretion. She should have never been put into that position in the first place where shes running the risk of 20 years. I thought it was interesting this idea, well, we offered the plea and she didnt take it. Pleaing is what the criminal Justice System does. Thats actually what these officers are prepared to do. The sheriffs criminal case going to trial dropped sharply. In 2010, its less than 5 . So what were seeing is a system that now has, can dangle much harsher possible penalties for people. The much harsher penalty is the thing that scares people into pleaing. We have a system that is only equipped to plea people out. If everyone went to trial, the entire thing, right, the entire thing would collapse in on itself. What we effectively do is curtail the right to a jury, a trial by jury of your peers. Because you have two options, and a draconian sentence or a possibly terrible plea bargain. Right. And so this is what we have. We wind up with situations like Marissa Alexander which we should say the issue is not solely her, but what happens to the next person whos innocent and knows about this case . They take a plea bargain. Something they really shouldnt have ever been charged. People will say about the criminal Justice System, theyll be like, well, all these people are guilty. You know, thats and you, you know, you find the odd person whos innocent with your innocence project, and you find the dna. Not just a few. But does the system do a good job of essentially exercising any discretion . I mean, is it mindful . Is it just in who it prosecutes and who it doesnt . Well, its become almost mindless because we have such an expansion, just take misdemeanors. People go to criminal court all the time on cases where they cant afford lawyers. The lawyers are overburdened, themselves. They dont have enough resources. If you want to come back to court five, six, seven times and lose your job, you have that option or take this misdemeanor plea with the collateral consequences. There are more people pleading
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