A. M. Out west. Heres whats happening right now. Were beginning with the breaking news. Coverage of a suspected chemical attack in syria, which has reportedly killed dozens, including 22 children. President trump responded with sharp criticism against Vladimir Putin, blaming him because of his support of syrian president Bashar Al Assad. Republicans including senator mike rounds, are praising the president s tough position on russia in this matter. Heres what senator rounds told chuck todd on meet the press this morning. I think he will hold not just syria, but i think he will make it clear he believes russia is also responsible. But lets get all of our facts together. Lets be prepared. Lets do our strategic planning. Lets allow the military to be in a position to where we can be effective in the way that we respond. Dont get pushed into doing it based on putins terms but on our terms. Helping us to go over todays top stories, nbc White House Correspondent jeff bennett, time magazines jane newton small, and perry bacon. Also, were in mexico with those migrants who want to come to america. Were going to head to the white house and jeff first. Jeff, the president is certainly reacting to this situation in syria. Lets get the full picture of what hes saying. Reporter thats right. President trump is blaming former president obama. As you mentioned, hes also calling out russian president Vladimir Putin, saying that putin bears responsibility for this apparent deadly chemical weapons attack in syria. So the president earlier this morning issued three tweets about all of this. The president saying this, many dead, including women and children, in mindless chemical attack in syria. Area of atrocity is lockdown and encircled by syrian army. President putin, russia, and iran are responsible for backing animal asad. Big price to pay. Open area immediately for medical help and verification. Another humanitarian disaster for no reason whatsoever, sick. If president obama had crossed his stated red line in the sand, the syrian disaster would have ended long ago. Animal assad would have been history. And the president is making mention there of what happened back in august 2013 when former president obama said that syrias use of chemical weapons against its own citizens crossed a red line. The former president obama said at the time he was going to seek congressional authorization for air strikes, air strikes that never came to pass. Now, white House Homeland Security adviser appeared on one of the sunday morning political shows and said he and the Overall National Security Team has been reviewing information and photos from syria overnight, and he says that all options are on the table as it relates to a potential response. Take a look. So is it possible there will be another missile attack . I wouldnt take anything off the table. These are horrible photos. Were looking into the attack at this point. American troops arent going to fix this. Six or seven ongoing wars going on in the middle east or syria at this stage. We need Regional Partnership. And remember, it was syrias use of chemical weapons against its own citizens that prompted President Trump last year to launch that surprise missile attack against assads military. The president at the time framed it as a moral issue. The question now, alex, is what, if anything, will the president do now in response. Well, im going to take that question and pick it up and ask it to my panel coming up. Thank you, jeff. Joining me now, jane newton small, contributor for time magazine, and perry bacon jr. Good to see you both. Perry, im curious what you make of the president s reaction to this situation in syria. And this appears to be his most direct public criticism of putin, right. Have you seen anything else to match this . Yeah, thats right. In terms of the president s own words about putin, this is one of the strongest criticisms of him weve seen so far. We should think about the context here though. Earlier in the week, there was a big National Security meeting at the white house with the defense secretary, the nsc, and so on. Hes been talking about pulling back u. S. Troops from syria and withdrawing our role in syria. So in the broader context, trump wants to get out of syria and have us less involved there. Ill be curious what happens today changes that. Its not clear to me one single strike by the u. S. Against syria or in that area makes a big difference. The policy so far has not really worked. Im not sure limited options are going to do anything. Its not clear trump wants to do anything beyond a very limited option in syria. In fact, hes up to now said he wants to do less in syria. I think its a legit position you have there. Considering the president did a limited strike this time last year in response to a chemical weapons attack horror, nothing has changed. So overall in terms of trump putin relations, what does this mean, do you think . Because look, the u. S. Needs russia to try to get the situation in syria under control. Alex, absolutely. Its striking to see donald trump call out Vladimir Putin by name on twitter. I think this is really the first time hes name checked putin in a critical manner on twitter. And it sort of strikes a new phase, i would sary, of that relationship, where hes generally been very flattering, very positive about Vladimir Putin. The only time hes ever not been flattering and positive was the last strike against syria where he was critical of russia and their position here. Its true we cant do anything in syria without russia and iran, without involving them because they are the ones really bolst bolster assads regime. It has been the de facto policy to allow assad to stay in place as they fight isis. Now as the war with isis is winding down on the other side of syria, the question is, is this a change of policy that trump has announced in saying he no longer supports assad in office and that regime change is going to be a priority for him. All right. Lets move to domestic politics and reports of the rising tensions between the president and chief of staff john kelly. The Washington Post has written about this. Kelly is really the fading role in the white house, reporting, quote, kelly neither lurks around the oval office nor listens in on as many of the president s calls, even with foreign leaders. Hes not been fully consulted on several recent key personnel decisions and has lost the trust and support in some of the staff. So i guess the question has to be asked, if kellys being sidelined like this, perry, why does he stay . He may like the job. I think the broader context here is from kelly to mcmaster to gary cohn, the first people in this administration in the first year felt like their role was to direct the president away from his instincts, to tell him no, to tell him this is not the right thing to do, to try to almost like stop the president from his instincts and his decisions. Trump seems to be saying, i dont want that anymore. Im not surprised that kelly is being ignored. Cohn was ignored. Mcmaster was ignored. We talk about these advisers a lot, but at this point, im not sure kelly stays or goes. It doesnt really matter, i would argue. Donald trump, more than last year for sure, more than last february, more than last april, is firmly in charge. Were talking about syria, talking about tariffs. Hes doing things his staff was trying to stop him from doing. Thats the big important story here. With regard to the story itself though, the president has denied the voracity over it. Hes calling it madeup garbage. His new white house chief economic adviser, larry kudlow, also pushed back on this. Lets take a listen to what he said. General kelly has been great to me. He is in charge. Hes operating on much improved process. Every time the president and i talk and that subject comes up, the president has nothing but good things to say about general kelly. Whats your reaction to all this . I think this is yet another edition of the apprentice white house. Every week we talk about whos going to get axed and whos fired next, whether its john kelly or scott pruitt from the epa, whos been under fire in recent weeks. Its what america is obsessed with, what people talk about all the time. Who is trump going to fire next . Whos in, whos out . Its impossible to predict. So a lot of people thought that Rex Tillerson was going to go months before he actually did. A lot of people thought that attorney general Jeff Sessions was going to go years before he did, and hes still there. You know, this is a guy who is just very fickle. Some days he loves people, some days he hates people. Some days people are in, some days people are out. Sometimes people last and sometimes they dont. You know, im going to ask you both this last question. That is that as perry was talking about, the president seems to be becoming more confident in his role as president , some 15 months in now. Hes relying on his own gut instinct more than anything else. Is that a good or bad thing for him politically . It would seem those who elected him into office, thats exactly what they want. I dont think its a good thing. I dont think his instincts are particularly good. I know trump was elected, but hes now at 40 , 42 . Hes one of the most unpopular president s in history. But it is moving up. Im not sure i would say its really moving up in any substantial way. Hes really unpopular. So i dont think his instincts are the right ones, like firing comey was not a smart decision politically, legally, policy wise. I do think the advisers have helped him at times, particularly the more modest ones. I think general mattis has been a help to trump in a lot of ways. Im not sure this path is politically smart, but it is i would say on tariffs particularly, there are some issues where the establishments of both parties have been stuck in their own ways. Trump wants to try something different. I dont think manything is wron with that. He was elected president , so he should try his method. Im not sure politically its going to work. Listen, im actually out of time. Can you give me a quick synopsis . Look, i think that he goes by his gut. Hes always gone by his gut. In some ways hes been tempered by staff, but mostly he hasnt been. The lack of staff is just going to let trump be trump even more so. Okay. Jane newton small, perry bacon, good to see you both. Coming up, an american dream. We caught up with centralamerican migrants in mexico to see where theyre heading next. Dear foremothers, your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands. Commanded armies. Yielded to no one. When i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. My name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. Now with 5 times more detail than other dna tests. Order your kit at ancestrydna. Com american troops arent going to fix the six or seven ongoing conflicts and wars in the middle east or syria at this stage. We need Regional Partnership increased and u. S. Presence decreased. That was the white house adviser on Homeland Security and terrorism with his response to the chemical attack in syria. Meanwhile, the president tweeted president Bashar Al Assad will pay a heavy price, going as far as blaming Vladimir Putin on the attack. Joining me now is Brendan Boyle of pennsylvania, member of the House Foreign Affairs committee. Congressman, welcome to you, sir. I want to put up your statement that is calling the pictures that youre seeing today sickening. Last week i know that you coled a letter to President Trump, urging him to work with our allies, to respond to assads continued use of chemical weapons. So do you expect any action, and if so, what kind, to follow the president s tweets this morning . Well, thanks for having me on. As i mentioned in my statement, the scenes that were seeing are sickening, but i want to point out this is not the first chemical attack to happen. Its not the first this year. This is now the eighth chemical weapons attack to happen. And we know that it is not just possible that they will continue. It is likely that they will continue. When i cowrote that letter to the Trump Administration last week, unfortunately the response from the administration was to announce a full withdrawal from syria. That just create s a total vacum that can be filled by the assad regime as well as iran and russia. I want to see two things. First, i would like to see, frankly, something weve been pushing for, for some time, and that is Holding Russia accountable for the actions of assad in syria. That means with real sanctions, number one. And number two, and this might go a little further than some of my colleagues will be comfortable with, we do have to explore militarily the option of at least degrading, if not crippling, assads air force. It is through his airplanes that hes able to deliver these chemical attacks. If we could take out those planes, we should be able to do so at relatively little cost and not requiring troops on the ground. You will remember that the president and his response to what he found morally reprehensible with the chemical attack last year, he did do specific surgical strikes on those places that would launch those weapons. Granted it was too little in terms of the overall big picture, but here we are again a year later. I mean, how likely is it do you think that your second proposal is even possible . Well, in terms of what President Trump did last time, it was more symbolic than effective. It didnt take out any airplanes. It took out one runway, which was actually fixed and back up, able to be used one week later. So it wasnt very effective at all. It wasnt a real strike. In terms of the ability of the United States as well as other western allies to degrade assads air force, this is something that our military has to explore. Weigh the pros and cons. At the very least, the first thing i strongly suggested, which is real sanctions against russia, that is something that we can and should do. And i do think theres bipartisan support for that on capitol hill. Of course, we know with President Trump there has been a lack of willingness there. What about the president and i want to get your reaction to the tweet he put out there, blaming president obama, saying that if president obama had crossed his stated red line in the sand, this syrian disaster would have ended long ago. Well, you know, its funny because as people quickly found online, at the time donald trump was tweeting the exact opposite, not to act in syria, do not do anything. Something like four or five tweets along those lines. He put that out in 2013, youre right. Yeah, so now he says something the exact opposite. So donald trump is always going to blame barack obama. He seems to have some odd obsession with the former president for the fact he was a popular president and donald trump is not. The reality, though, is that when it comes to syria, in all honesty, the last seven years have been a bipartisan failure in terms of having a policy on syria. I do think that years from now, we, the american people, will look back on the disgrace that is the syrian war and will collectively feel a certain sense of responsibility. The reality is 12 Million People have been displaced. Its often cited that a half a million have been killed. But do you know the u. N. Has stopped keeping those statistics years ago . The reality is its well north of a Million People killed. This happened on our watch, and i think its something that those of us in the west should feel a real sense of shame about. Yeah, i think theres a level of horror at these numbers and the pictures. It is a disgrace, youre right. In terms of going forward, timing here, happening in the middle of a significant personnel turnover in the Trump Administration. John bolton starts his job as National Security adviser tomorrow. Mike pompeo gets his hearing for secretary of state on thursday. I know that you have had some concerns about both men, but are you encouraged about how they will advise the president in his response to syria . Not really. I mean, bolton is especially concerning. Hes prone to believing kind of the worst sort of rightwing conspiracy theories, including about our intelligence agencies. So the fact that some of the more stable members of this administration, like mcmaster, are leaving and being replaced by someone like bolton is more cause for concern in my view. Id also just point out the incredible turnover in this administration. Its exactly why more mainstream republicans are actually cautious and unwilling to join this administration. Because the reality is almost every person works for donald trump comes away from the experience diminished. All right. Democratic pennsylvania congressman Brendan Boyle. Thank you so much for weighing in. Appreciate that. All right. Thank you. Coming up next, an american dream. Weve caught up with the Central American caravan of migrants in mexico to see if theyre still heading for the states. And is the National Guard needed at the border . Well find out whats really going on at the nations doorstep. I just got my cashback match, is this for real . Yep. We match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. Whoo i got my money hard to contain yourself, isnt it . Uh huh let it go whoo get a dollarfordollar match at the end of your first year. Only from discover. Proof of less joint pain. And clearer skin. This is my body of proof that i can fight Psoriatic Arthritis with humira. Humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. Humira is the number 1 prescribed biologic for Psoriatic Arthritis. 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Two weeks and 500 miles later, theyve reached puebla, mexico. This is in the heart of the country. It is a critical juncture where the caravan has dwindled in size from about 1500 to about a third of that. But theres still hundreds of people here, as you can see behind me, mostly women and children in makeshift shelters. Theyre deciding today, in the next couple of hours, whether they continue on to mexico city and some of them try to seek asylum here in mexico, which is a very complicated process, or as was their original intention, to head to the u. S. , mostly to seek asylum. You can imagine they have a ton of legal questions, and theres a group here, including marie, who i want to introduce you to, of about 20 lawyers, mostly american, giving them legal advice. Marie, tell me what kind of services are you providing these migrants . Were providing information about the asylum process in the u. S. So they can make an informed decision about whether to seek asylum in the u. S. Based on why they qualify or why they may not qualify for asylum in the u. S. And also based on detention conditions in the United States. Reporter one of the most frequent questions that you get from them, ive seen you talk to groups of just 20 or more people, raising their hands, and youre doing this several times a day. What are you hearing from them . People want to know if they might qualify for asylum, what are the requirements. They want to know about detention conditions. Theyre really worried about that. They want to know about family separations. Theyve heard that their kids are going to be taken away. They want to know if thats true. And thats the most common questions we get. Reporter and what are they fleeing from . What do they tell you . Why are they here . Theres about 500 Asylum Seekers still here. Most of them are from honduras. Most of them are fleeing Political Violence from the last elections. Reporter thank you so much, marie. As you heard, about 80 of them are from honduras, fleeing gang violence. There was a very contested president ial election in honduras november of last year. A lot of them are fleeing all of that. And they tell me they wouldnt be here if they didnt fear for their lives. They really have more to fear staying in honduras than the threats of u. S. Troops on the border that donald trump has announced. Alex . Ive got to imagine that kind of news, though, of National Guard there on the border is daunting for them. What has been the reaction to that . Do they still want to persevere . Reporter a lot of them have no cell phone, no social media, so the news of President Trump saying hes going to send troops to the border or even that women are being raped in this caravan has sort of been dispersed by word of mouth. Most of the migrants ive spoken to, they say they wouldnt be undergoing all of this, marching for 500 miles. We have met children that arent even 1 year old. If they wouldnt be fearing for their lives in their home countries. Again, one of them just told me now before we went on the air, whats the worst that could happen . I could get arrested by these u. S. Troops, but at least i and my family will be safer than what we are facing with these gangs in Central America. Alex . Its an extraordinary story you are telling. Thank you very much. Joining me now is brandon judd, the president of the National Border patrol council. Thats a union that represents thousands of u. S. Border agents. With a welcome to you, sir. Yesterday National Guard veteran Mary Jennings hager spoke about the National Guard. Lets listen to what she said. A lot of people have pointed to the fact its a waste of resources. The National Guard is largely parttime people with fulltime civilian jobs and families they leave behind to do these things. We stand ready to deploy, to answer our nations call for a multitude of reasons. But what we expect in return for that promise and that ability and willingness to just leave our lives behind is that those decisions are being made in Critical Situations where there is no other option. And so brandon, is this a situation thats so extreme that the only option now is to deploy the National Guard . Well, alex, thanks for having me. What we have to look at is we have to look at the trend of the apprehensions that were seeing. In 2010, president obama deployed the National Guard because the trends were going upward. If you look at the apprehensions that weve had on the border, withwe just had 50,000 in the month of march, which is up 200 from what it was in march of 2017. Wait, brendan. How are you reconciling that . Im being told by others, and im going to presume theyre experts. Theyre saying the amount of people being arrested crossing the border has dropped by like 40 . That was in 2017, not in 2018. In fact, if you compare the 2018 number tots la numbers to the last two years of president obamas administration, 2015 and 16, the numbers are dramatically up from that. Im sorry to interrupt. But what is it that barack obama was doing correctly then . Well, again, it was the ebbs and flows, but when you have a surge like what were seeing, you have to react to that surge, which is what president obama did in 2010. So to say that right now putting the National Guard on the border is irresponsible just isnt true because the surge is there. Were seeing that surge. Now, when we look at these people that are in mexico right now, this caravan thats coming up, if theyre coming up to seek asylum in a legal manner, which is going through the ports of entry, they have nothing to fear. But if theyre going to cross the border illegally, then we have to take them into custody. Butt national gua but the National Guard is not going to be taking anybody into custody. Theyre going to serve as our eyes. They sit in our observation posts, which then allows us to put more of our agents into the field, which allows us to better protect the border. Okay. So it sounds like youre working in conjunction. There will be at some point some coordination between these two entities because right now there are just a bunch of questions as to what exactly the National Guard will be doing. But we know, brandon, that the president signed that memo to put an end to the catch and release policy. How does that affect the numbers of those trying to cross the border . Thats one of the reasons why we saw that dramatic drop in 2017. Most people thought that if they came over here, they would be taken into custody, they would be held pending their deportation proceedings, but thats not what happened. In fact, what happened was we would take them into custody, process them for deportation proceedings, but then we would release them prior to seeing a judge. And that was the magnet that continued to draw people over here. The numbers have been trending upward since april of 2017, and those numbers are trending that way because of that magnet, because were not actually having them go before an immigration judge. If you come to the United States and you ask for asylum, you dont have to present any proof initially. You have to present proof once you go to your immigration hearing. But the vast majority of people that come here, they dont show up for their immigration hearing. In fact, its estimated that its 85 to 88 of those individuals that come here and are released under the catch and release Program Never show up to their immigration hearing. Brandon, how much do you think and just follow the logic here. The president may have brought this on himself, this upstitick of april last year. He campaigned on and by a certain margin was probably elected by the fact he was saying im building a wall, a big beautiful wall. Is there an ideology for those who think about, dream about, hope to come to this country, like we have to go now because some wall may be built and then our chances of getting across the border are null and void or greatly reduced at least . I think the main issue that were facing right now is those surrogates that are supposed to implement the Trump Administration policy just arent doing it. We have way too many agents that are sitting behind desks that are doing nothing. If you look at the ratio of supervisor to agent, its way too high. Weve got one supervisor for 4. 5 agents. Thats the highest i know of in the federal government. I think if we had more of our agents on the border, we wouldnt be facing this problem we currently face. Again, were not talking about legal immigration. Were talking about illegal immigration. Nobody wants to stop legal immigration. Let these individuals come to the ports of entry. Let them present themselves at the port of entry. But what happens is the smugglers and the coyotes, they force these people to cross the border illegally, which then forces us to send our resources to those areas, take them into u. S. C custody, which ties up our hands. That leaves gaps on these borders that allows criminal cartels, a multibilliondollar industry, it creates gaps which allows them to bring across their products, such as opioids or criminal aliens. We want to see them present themselves at the ports of entry. Dont cross the border illegally, which forces us, myself included, to take these individuals into custody. With regard to the National Guard, what is going to be the biggest hurdle for working together effectively . Right now i think its going to be a seamless transition, but its going to be the communications. Are we going to have the number of radios that theyre going to be able to communicate with us directly, or is it going to go through a third party. Thats going to be the biggest issue. Okay. Brandon judd, good conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Coming up next, more on the breaking news we told you about at the top of the hour. International outrage over the attack in syria, but will there be any consequences . That is next. I needed legal advice for my shop. Thats when i remembered that my exex exboyfriend actually went to law school, so i called him. He didnt call me back if your exex exboyfriend isnt a lawyer, call legalzoom and well connect you with an attorney. Legalzoom. Where life meets legal. Miraclegro guarantees results vo these neighbors are starting right. With rich potting mix and essential plant food for three times the blooms. Success is sweet. Miraclegro. Three times the beauty. One powerful guarantee. Again, this breaking news that were following. An alleged chemical attack against civilians in syria. Activists claim the Syrian Government forces have dropped barrel bombs with a chemical agent. This on civilian shelters as well as a hospital. They report dozens have been killed, including 22 children. The president tweeting earlier that the area is in lockdown, encircled by the syrian army and president putin, russia, and iran are responsible for backing animal assad. Joining me with more is the president of the Washington Strategy group and former Deputy Assistant secretary of state joel rueben. Joul joel, good to have you back on broadcast. I want to have you listen with me to what senator Lindsey Graham had to say to the president about this earlier today. Here it is. If it becomes a tweet without meaning, then hes hurt himself on north korea. If he doesnt follow through and live up to that tweet, hes going to look weak in the eyes of russia and iran. So this is a defining moment, mr. President. You need to follow through with that tweet, show a resolve that obama never did to get this right. Give me your assessment of this statement. Is the senator correct . Well, alex, its great to be with you. And clearly President Trump is always looking for an easy way out of complex situations. This is no different from a variety of situations weve seen. No, senator graham is not correct. This is not one where you just fire off a tweet and then the policy follows through. There actually needs to be real strategic coherence and a real deliberate view of what the administration is planning to do regarding syria. And theres not. So sending out this tweet and following up, what does that mean . Does that just mean american air raids now ad nauseam without a plan for the day after . We actually need a real policy and real coherence. You, im sure, also saw what the president tweeted about his predecessor, saying that if president obama had crossed his stated red line in the sand, the syrian disaster would have ended long ago. Animal assad would have been history. Look, you worked for the obama state department. Do you think theres any validity to what President Trump is saying . You know, i have a unicorn that id love to hand you too. Thats fantasy. First of all, we have a real world example of this. Just a year ago where President Trump launched air strikes and we see the results today. Air strikes in isolation do not work. And we have to remember that back in 2013, there was no Political Support here in the United States for air strikes, and we cut a deal with russia and syria to pull out chemical weapons that held for a significant amount of time. Clearly assad has cheated, and that has been a failure we have to look at the causes of. That includes russias involvement and intervention. To say that, wow, if just one initiative had taken place, Everything Else would have been fine, is just really nonsense. This z allegalleged attack w chemical weapons, does it increase in any scenario the prospect of a u. S. russian conflict on the ground there . Well, these pictures are devastating. I received photos of this last night. To see children with foam from their mouths, it just its heart wrenching beyond description. There need to be consequences and severe consequences, but they need to be consequences that actually have an end state that will end this and not have a perpetual occurrence of these kinds of attacks. With russia, we need to get tough. The president has spent a year, year and a half allowing russia to essentially run the Playing Field in syria and elsewhere. He spent that amount of time essentially undermining our strong deterrents against iran with the nuclear deal. Right now easteiran and russia control syria on the ground, much of it. Were there in a small footprint. Imagine if youre a soldier there asking, what policy am i being asked to die for . They cant explain it. There need to be consequences for russia, but we need to expand this and actually engage russia, the europeans, and other regional parties involved in this war in an aggressive, diplomatic action that currently is not under way. Okay. So in addition to what youve just said about getting others in the region, those in europe to get aggressive with their action, are there things that you talked about while you were in the state department that you think could be employed here to help u. S. Policy, to help bring an end to this horrifying situation in syria that just seems never ending . Well, certainly at the beginning, the front end with russia and iran heavily engaged, we need to be engaging in a diplomatic activity that brings them to the table and lays out clearly what the end game should be and work with them on that. There are regional partners as well, such as turkey, with whom weve now had a fissure over syria that we need to repair relations with as well. This is not going to be an americanonly intervention. Thats why America First is a failure as a frame for how to deal with this. This is going to be america engaging and leading, but leading with our partners and allies. Thats what we were working on at the state department. Thats what congress has been actively supporting. But that is right now what this administration has chosen to turn its back on, and the result is, as we see, no real clear policy on how to end the fighting and get american troops out at the same time. Yeah, and stop the heartbreaking pictures we saw all the time. President of the Washington Strategy group, joel rubin, good to see you. Thanks, alex. Coming up next, the new report giving a glimpse inside the oval office and policy time set aside for the president. But can his chief of staff stick around to make sure it happens . very nice. Now im turning into my dad. I text in full sentences. I refer to every child as chief. This hat was free. What am i supposed to do, not wear it . Next thing you know, im telling strangers defense wins championships. Well, it does. Right . Why is the door open . Are we trying to air condition the whole neighborhood . At least i bundled home and auto on an internet website, progressive. Com. Progressive cant save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. I mean, why would i replace this . Its not broken. New reports on tensions in the white house and pushback from the president. Axios reporting chief of staff john kelly blew up at trump in an Oval Office Meeting less than two weeks ago, and while walking back to his office, muttered he was going to quit. The Washington Post has reported a similar account of the scene as this, quote, kelly has threatened to resign on multiple occasions. Though officials have explained his declarations as more expressions of momentary frustration. The president tweeted that the Washington Post story is not true, just another hit job. Lets bring in democratic strategy morris reed, a partner at mercury, republican strategy lauren zelt, managing director at fp1 strategies, and msnbc political analyst maya harris. Always good to have the three of you on. Were going to get into it here. Lauren, youre the one republican on the panel, so im going to start with you. How do you make sense of all of this . Well, you know, i looked at the Washington Post reporting despite what the president and others have tweeted, it does seem to be very well sourced. I think were seeing a moment here where a lot of republicans who may not have really liked the president , he wasnt their choice in the primary, theyve been hoping for the past couple of years that at least he would do a good job of surrounding limb selfwi himself with advisors that could help guide him in the process. So i think you are seeing some alarm bells go off on the right. If these reports are true, then it is a little bit concerning because any president needs to be surrounding with good advisors. If john kelly is losing his grip, that could be a little bit dangerous and i think some people are concerned. There were super high hopes for him when we were all talking about his arrival i think it was last july. I do want to read another part of this washington report. Another quote. Kelly neither lurks around the oval office or listens in on many of the president s foreign calls. He has not been recently consulted on key personnel decisions and he has lost the trust and support of some of his staff as well as angered first lady melania trump. When you lose that power, said leon papanetta, you become a virtual white house internal being told where to go and what to do. Morris, if thats true, why do you think hes still there . Well, i think it is reputational at this point. Ive been one of those people saying structurally the president needed a different structure for his chief of staff. I said jared should have been the one. You look at the last three president s, obama had good structure but he also had comfort with valerie jarrett. George bush can good structure but he can good relationships. I think this structurally was the wrong process. I think he should have gone with comfort and then surround himself with those key advisors as opposed to putting someone he doesnt virtually know. If you notice, he does better with people that hes most comfortable with. Hes able to be candid and speak, frankly, honestly with them. Then theyre able to carry out his mission. I just think structurally this was never going to work. Now you have a guy like john kelly who was a fabulous american who served us, is now looking how to exit this way in a graceful manner, unlike what happened to mcmaster. You will the only person whos come on my broadcast i understand your logic here, big picture but saying that Jared Kushner should serve as his chief of staff. This is, of course, hindsight. This is talking at the beginning of the process. Now obviously jared is much damaged so it is not necessarily jibing. But structurally i thought thats what he should have done from the beginning. If you look at that, hes churned through people because he doesnt know them. If you look at donald trump, hes a personalitydriven person. He wants people around him that hes comfortable so that he can be more honest. Thats the problem. Heres a guy who is an ego maniac. When you have people that are ego maniacs, it is harder for them to be honest with people they dont know. Thats why structurally from the beginning it is a flawed process. Maya, this same report from the post describes some of john kellys contributions to the white house thus far, including, quote, under kellys watch the president now has policy Time Sessions once or twice a time where senators argue their side with trump presiding. What does this say with how the president views policy making . I think thats the real question here, alex. Its kind of ridiculous when you talk about the fact that you have to put policy time on his calendar. What is he doing with the rest of his day . He has policy time. He has tv, which we call executive time. Its like snam tick time. Sounds like adult daycare is alive and well in the white house and it is very distressing because it really does affirm so much of what weve heard about this president and his lack of interest in the substance, his lack of knowledge about the substance, and his inability to keep his attention on the key elements of his job. I got to tell you, i had to just chuckle as you were chronicling all these things because it does sound like daycare. For the record, i am grateful we have not heard about nap time at this point. All right, guys, well turn to spru scott pruitt. Morris, the president doubling down on him, despite these mounting ethics and questions around his epa chief. Referencing some of those questions the president was tweeting. Travel expense is okay. Scott is doing a great job. Why do you think the president is willing to dismiss concerns that scott pruitt is facing . He speaks directly to his base. If you look at people who have been ousted, they dont resonate with the president s base. As you have heard me say consistently on your broadcast and others, this president is 100 focused on reelection. This is a president thats looking to not expand the base because he cannot. Hes looking to suppress the votes. He wants less people to come to the polls. The way you do that is by demoralizing the competition and by keeping people like scott pruitt, you demoralize people that are on the fence. Those 33 of irnd pents who may or may not vote for him. Instead of voting for him they may not go and vote this time. Hes always focused on his base and reelection. This guy helps him with his reelection efforts. But this could be problematic. The House Oversight committee has opened this investigation to scott pruitt, the condo agreement there with the wife of an energy lobbyist. How do you see this one playing out . Well, its about time that republicans really stand up and do something about some of what weve seen in terms of completely inappropriate and unprecedented behavior in this administration. I mean you look at its not just pruitt. Pruitt is at the end of a long line of people who have had ethical issues. Up until now, we have seen republicans simply turn the other way. So i think it is an important step to actually investigate this. Its obscene the actions that pruitt has engaged in. And really fundamentally looking at this entire situation and the multiple people, Public Service is a privilege. It is not an opportunity for you to enrich yourself and live high off the hog on the backs of the american people. So i hope a thorough investigation will be done and there will actually be some consequences and accountability for these actions. Last word to you, lauren. Do you think there will be accountability . Well, i hope so. I think the reason the president is standing by scott pruitt at this point is he knows it would be difficult to confirm another epa administrator in this xli. Climate. One article in politico called him the kato kaelin of capitol hill. I do think we should get to the bottom of whats going on here but i think you arent seeing more republicans come out against him because of the political reality. Thank you all so much. Morris, lauren, maya. Have a great sunday afternoon. 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