Our nbc news headquarters here in new york. R this was day 866 of the trump administration, and while the president remains in the uk, tonight here in the u. S. A familiar name from his administration is back in the news. Perhaps because she started out as a student modeling for ralphe lauren and then built a career that earned her the title of White House Communications director at the age of 28, hope hicks was the subject of a lot of fascination, a lot of press coverage early on in the trump presidency. And her name came up again during the investigation as she was called to testify based on g all that she witnessed, all tha she saw and overheard in that job. Hope hicks is back in the news tonight because she has said no to a congressional subpoena because she was told to by the white house. Hicks along with another woman Annie Donaldson, former chief of staff to onetime White House Counsel Don Mcgahn have chosen not to cooperate with subpoenas from the house Judiciary Committee. The committees chairman jerry nadler had requested materials from both women as part of his committees investigation into possible obstruction and abuse of power by the president. They were due by 10 00 a. M. Os today. That didnt happen. The committee got a letter from the current white House Counsel who invoked executive privilege and added that the former aides, quote, do not have the legal right to disclose the white house records to third parties. And that acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney to the president has directed them not to produce documents. Chairman nadler responded with his own statement which read in part, federal law makes clear that the documents we requested, documents that left the white house months ago are no longer covered by executive privilege, if they ever were. The president has no lawful basis for preventing these witnesses from complying with our request. Hicks has already turned over some documents related to her time on the trump campaign. She faces another big test as she and donaldson have been summoned to testify before the Judiciary Committee in person. Nadler was asked about that earlier today. Do you expect Annie Donaldson and hope hicks to appear for these hearings . That was that. For now the latest white house move effectively blocks the democrats access to some of the key witnesses related to the obstruction aspect of the mueller investigation. You may recall the white house also stopped don mcgahn from cooperating with a subpoena to submit documents and to testify. Next week, the full house of representatives is scheduled too vote on holding him and attorney general bill barr in contempt of congress. Barr has so far refused to comply with a subpoena for the full unredacted Mueller Report. The Justice Department had asked that the house call off the vote in respect to barr in exchanged for continued negotiations over the report. But tonight nadler rejected that overture. Uert all of this has democrats now working overtime to find ways to convince this man, Robert Mueller himself in the flesh to testify. He has already made it quite clear he has no desire to testify. It some members of the house st Judiciary Committee now say it is time for chairman nadler to demand his testimony. Im he has to come before the ny committee. If he doesnt come voluntarily, if thats the final determination he makes, then i have confidence that the chireman will issue a subpoena and he will comply. Thhe that man, congressman cicilli cicilline, a democrat from rhode island is one of 12 democrats on that committee who are now in favor of opening an impeachment inquiry. In total 58 House Democrats still just one republican are in favor of such a move. There is also news tonight in the case of Michael Flynn, trumps former National Security adviser who pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi about his phone conversations with a former russian ambassador. Th the federal judge handling the case had ordered the transcripts of those discussions between flynn and ambassador kislyak be made public and on friday prosecutors had refused saying there was no need to file the transcript. Tonight, that same judge has agreed and said nothing else was needed. Ne this is all unfolding as trump, of course, is in london on the second day of his state visit. Trump waded a little further into british Politics Today talking about brexit in a News Conference with Prime Minister theresa may and meeting with its most vocal supporter nigel farage. There was also a new escalation in trumps feud with london mayor khan khan. L im not going to respond by name t calling. Its the behavior i expect from an 11yearold. He is a negative force. He is not a positive force. If you look at what he says, he hurts the people of this great country. I think he should actually focus on his job. K t here for our leadoff discussion on a tuesday evening, carol lening, Pulitzer Prize winning Investigative Reporter for the Washington Post. Kimberly atkins, senior washington correspondent andes mika olang, veteran washington lawyer, former staffer for the house intelligence and Arms Services committees. Welcome to you all. Rv carol, i would like to begin with you. What will the democrats lose by not getting the testimony of these two young women, assuming they say no to that subpoena, as well . Th well, i think your opening was perfect in describing what they lose. Both of these people are os insiders in the most dramatic way in the trump white house. Annie donaldson because she kepa basically a running diary of important things that were beinf said by the president that were ultimately used as potential evidence of obstruction of justice by the president , efforts to throttle the probe. Hope hicks as illustrated by your bs roll is also a compellg figure, a person who was by the president s side whisperring in his ear what she thinks he es should do and him responding he will agree with her or, no, he wants her to do something dramatic and also some of what she saw was used as potential evidence of obstruction of justice in the mueller probe. Really what the democrats are trying to do is bring these people to television so that they can speak and give voice t the Mueller Report, which is lengthy and dense and lawyerly u and not everyone has read it. Although, i should have worn my button from the Washington Post which said i have read the Mueller Report. Not everyone has and democrats want to bring that into the living rooms of american citizens because theyre not feeling that the American Public is in agreement that what the president has done is worrisome. That it rises to the level of either intense scrutiny or potentially impeachment in their view. Lin mika, in all of these cases, jerry nadler follows up with an angry letter. And all the letters seem to be some version of why i ought to. What leverage do the democrats have at this point . They can go to court to try to seek enforcement of their subpoenas. There are other places where they can try to get to collateral witnesses who may be able to shed light on things that may have been happening. There are other places where witnesses might be able to compel to sit at the table if they try to assert various privileges to not actually speak. That could be useful if they read to them the sections of the Mueller Report that are about them while they sit there and ab ask them to respond to silence. There are other things that nadler could be doing. He could be calling witnesses to talk about the importance of obstruction or of Holding President s accountable. There are other ways of trying to explain to the american. People, as carol says, to bring it into their living rooms why these things matter that may not necessarily require hope hicks to say what she saw a on air force one. Or what she heard the president talking about in the oval office. Kimberly, there are aspects of this while we are dealing with civilized people, most of them with advanced degrees that are right out of a mob movie. The latest plot line is the department of justice says, look, you make the contempt of Congress Vote on our guy go away, well show you a little bit more of the Mueller Report that was paid for by taxpayers. This is kind of an unbelievable development. Is it really is. I mean, its really extraordinary that this document that was created to get to the bottom of russian interference h in the 2016 election is now being used as a bargaining pawno between the Justice Department and House Democrats in terms of how much information comes out, whether contempt of Congress Charges are brought. It really is extraordinary, but it shows just how dug in both sides have become. J i say both sides. De i put the Justice Department on the side of the white house e which by and large has been has stuck with the position that there is nothing to see here. This investigation is over and no obstruction, no collusion. And democrats in the house disagree. And so i think those are the battle lines that have been drawn. It is a political battle. Ultimately impeachment is a n ma political exercise by its very legal nature. Ex and thats what youre seeing here. You are seeing the president believing that he wont be impeached, that he shouldnt be impeached and he is pulling out all the stops including ordering private citizens at this point, former white house officials not to cooperate and democrats becoming increasingly frustrateu by this, increasingly alarmed in when even those who have read the Mueller Report saw bob mueller finally speak publicly. Those two things converge and we are seeing an increasing number of democrats say at the very least they want to open an impeachment inquiry even if nota already on board to voting in on favor of impeachment. Kim, im glad you mentioned that. I got one more for you. Ou this is our friend susan page at usa today. Former Senate Majority leader ay harry reid who as recently as last month cautioned democrats about the perils of pursuing President Trumps impeachment now says the house should open an impeachment inquiry that might or might not lead to a formal effort to remove him froh office. Ff quote, its not the right thing to do nothing reid said in an interview. Now, respectfully, kim, when this came out today, i heard people saying it couldnt be easier for harry reid to say this. Hes in the cheap seats now. He doesnt have skin in the game anymore. Right. Thav thats a fair point. He doesnt have skin in the game. He was in the senate even when he was here. E and thats not where this decision is made to bring these charges. But its really remarkable in ar the past about two weeks or so the number of democrats who i have spoken to off the record who have said that their process is shifting, that they are shifting to this place of, you know, supporting at least the opening of this inquiry, at least the ability to move forward. That will increase their rw abilities to do things like issue subpoenas, use the courts and really compel the kind of testimony. Of course, bob muellers testimony would be the absolute best thing. They say, look, when watergate happened, it wasnt that the information about watergate that this breakin immediately changed the mind of the public. They largely ignored it until you had hearings that really were brought to the televisions of americans that really shifted the opinion with watergate. They want to create that same thing with these hearings with this impeachment inquiry. Wam they think that can change the mind of americans and really shift this. Carol leonnig, if we can shift this conversation a bit to the flynn case, something you are more than familiar with. Were you surprised that this t judge changed his tune, this federal judge. We all in the media thought that we were going to be the purveyors to the public of a transcript of mike flynn actually having a we now know surveilled phone conversation with ambassador kislyak. The judge has suddenly thought better of that. I was surprised, brian. Tt this came about because the Washington Post filed a motion with the court seeking for a series of documents in the flynn case to be unsealed. Ri the case is done. Flynn is just going to be sentenced. He has pled guilty. Nt the post argued that many records in this case needed to be unsealed. The government agreed to release some. Rd and then the judge on his own se ordered that this transcript of this very controversial call and a very dramatic one according to National Security experts who had to review it, that it should be made public. The public should hear what the judge loosely described in court as the moment when he believed flynn had sort of he said, i think you sold your country out, sir. And he wanted the public to hear this. S for him to now accept that the government doesnt believe its relevant to sentencing, doesnt believe its necessary to sentence Michael Flynn is very, very surprising to me. Nn and i wonder if perhaps the government has had a conversation about explaining maybe the sensitivities of this conversation, that there is sa Something Else that kislyak says or that theres some precedent that would be set by sharing an intercepted phone call in its entirety. I dont know the answer. I hope we will know it soon but i do find it surprising. Mieke eoyang, do we not think the judge would have said in some verbiage im not going to let this out because portions of it shouldnt be in the Public Domain because it exposes something . Go and, second, how do you think this came about . Do you think someone just made . Very compelling argument to this federal judge and he thought better of it . Yeah. Its a little bit tricky. Theres not up much in the public record. What it looks like is that the government went in and made some kind of ex parte or sealed argument to the judge about the sensitivity of the transcript or the concerns here and then the judge agreed with that. Ou t oftentimes when judges hear classified information they hear it ex parte and secretly and the public might never know that. Perhaps sometime further on they will declassify the records, but for now we dont get to see what was argued to the judge. Kimberly atkins, about this president you cover, as president s do just like fdr and lbj before him, the president at 1 00 a. M. London time called schumer a creep. Im kidding about the prior president s. And then attacked bette midler around 1 30 in the morning. This is the night he had dinner with prince charles. How are we supposed to process this . Im not sure the answer to that, brian, quite frankly. I mean, i had to en route to coming hereto sort of figure out exactly what bette midler had said. Which i didnt anticipate doing today. This is a president who loves venting on twitter. It doesnt matter the hour. I it doesnt matter the proprietyo of the fact that he is overseas meeting withis heads of state a members of the royal family bringing his entire family along to do that. It really doesnt matter. He doesnt seem to need to sleep very much. R he needs to tweet very much. And today is no different. Just when you dont think attacking bette midler should be on the list of tasks taking on by a u. S. President , he surprises us again. Our great thanks to our initial big three guests for starting off our conversation on this g tuesday night. To carol leonnig, to Kimberly Atkins and mieke eoyang. As always, thank you so much for coming on. Coming up for us, the Paul Manafort edition of lockup. Are they really going to transfer Paul Manafort from his federal prison to one of the toughest city jails in this country . And later, is conservatism dead in the age of trump . O upinnain and if so, can it be revived . Pulitzer prize winning columnist george will will tell us what he thinks and share with us the one word he purposefully left out of his new book. The 11th hour is just Getting Started on this tuesday night. But im relentless too. Mbc doesnt take a day off, and neither will i. And i treat my mbc with everyday verzenio the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. 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Tell your doctor if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. Common side effects include nausea, infections, low red and white blood cells and platelets, decreased appetite, headache, abdominal pain, tiredness, vomiting, and hair thinning or loss. Im relentless. And my doctor and i choose to treat my Metastatic Breast Cancer with verzenio. Be relentless. Ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. Did you know comcast business goes beyond fast with a gigspeed network. Complete internet reliability. Advanced voice solutions. Wifi to keep everyone connected. Video monitoring. Thats huge. Did you guys know we did all this stuff . No. Im not even done yet. Wow. Business tv. Cloud apps and support. Comcast business goes beyond at t. Start with internet and voice for just 59. 90 a month. Its everything a Small Business owner needs. Comcast business. Beyond fast. Well, there he is. If you have ever thrown into Laguardia Airport then perhaps you have seen it out the window, Rikers Island home to about 10,000 inmates, part of the jail system in the city of new york. Like laguardia, only worse. Rikers is a place to avoid at all costs. While it was never designed as a fourstar facility, its teeming and grim and dangerous, approximately 100,000 individuals a year cycle through it after their arrest, most of them awaiting trial. New yorkers especially were surprised this morning to wake up and hear a report that Paul Manafort was perhaps heading to Rikers Island while facing state charges in new york. He is already doing time in a federal prison. It turned out there was more to the rikers story, however. Here with us is the chief Investigative Reporter for our new york station here wnbc in addition to being a contributing correspondent for nbc news. Jonathan, first of all, we dont think it is happening in a week. Second of all, we think rikers is one of an array of choices the feds have . Thats correct. Mr. Manafort faces 16 counts in new york. He has to come to new york to face a judge. His lawyer said the earliest it will happen is sometime next week but perhaps later this month. Once he gets to new york, he has to appear before the judge and then decide what happens to him next. Does he go to rikers which is the majority of places where inmates wait awaiting trial in new york. Does he get special treatment and get put in a federal facility here in new york . Is he allowed to go back to his pennsylvania prison which is a five, sixhour drive where the marshals have to fly him back and forth . But the defense is certainly going to argue that mr. Manafort is in a federal prison, keep him in some sort of federal lockup. The mayor of the city of new york said no special treatment for him. If he has security concerns, we will address those in prison. The question is which new york facility he will go to. Most likely rikers, but there are some other options. What is the debate about the nice way of calling it when you are in a cell alone as protective custody because it keeps you away from the rest of the population . The pejorative is solitary confinement. Sometimes lawyers for highprofile clients ask that they stay alone. Its also an example of be careful what you wish for, meet your new room mate. What is the case with Paul Manafort . With officials we spoke with today, it is not solitary confinement in new york. Its 23 hours a day of lockup. Youre allowed out for an hour at a time. Punitive measure. Thats not the case at rikers for a pretrial inmate. What would likely happen is he would be put in the infirmry section because of his age and some of his Health Issues or another protective wing where it is eight inmates with extra guards because they are high profile like officers charged with crimes and can be at risk. Someone like mr. Manafort. Because he is high profile but their cells are left open. There is a common tv area, there is outdoor exercise. He would be around other individuals, just more close hold extra protection, extra security. Still no picnic being on Rikers Island. No, absolutely not. Let me back up a step. The state charges. He is already doing federal time, seven years and change. Remind our audience why these state charges were billed as pardon proof. Because on federal crimes, which mr. Manafort was convicted of, the president can pardon him and he can be released from prison. The president does not have pardon power over state crimes so the Manhattan District Attorney said, this guy we believe committed state crimes, fraud, tax evasion. We are going to charge him here. That way if the president thinks he is going to pardon his friend and former campaign chief, we will prosecute him here and make sure he is held accountable. That is what the Manhattan District Attorney is doing and believes that there were state crimes that deserve and need to be prosecuted. And thats why theyre moving forward. So the bottom line on this story, there could be an inmate in the new york city system who is in for drug charges and murder who is getting processed, looks over and theres every chance they will see a guy they have seen on the news, one Paul Manafort getting processed into the new york system. Theyll see him getting processed. I doubt he will be housed with inmates given the highprofile nature of him. Again, is it going to be rikers . It could be a place called the tombs. No Pleasant Place but thats a jail right next door to the manhattan courthouse. He could be housed there. Defense could ask for the mcc which is a federal facility two blocks from the state courthouse here in new york. So there are various options. Nothing is set. It really will be up to the d. A. , the defense and the judge to hammer this all out when he comes to new york. Its expected certainly in the next week to two weeks. Probably a good rule of thumb to avoid any jail nicknamed the tombs. Jonathan dienst, its a pleasure to have you. Thank you very much. Youve explained the story from top to bottom. Another break for us. Coming up, Steve Kornacki tonight reporting on a place that is a mandatory stop on the road to the white house. Hell be here with us in the studio when the 11th hour continues. danny let me get this straight. After a long day of hard work. You have to do more work . Every day youre nearly fried to a crisp, professionally can someone turn on the ac . no . Oh right. cause there isnt any. Here vo automatically sort your expenses and save over 40 hours a month. Without you, we wouldnt have electricity. Our hobby would be going to bed early. vo you earned it, were here to make sure you get it. danny its time to get yours vo quickbooks. Backing you. We are now just 22 days away from the first democratic president ial debates here on this very network, and we are continuing our new series of reports called the road to miami where Steve Kornacki breaks down everything we need to know about the critical states along the way along interstate 95 from maine to florida. Tonight were stopping in the granite state, New Hampshire. And back tonight is our National Political correspondent Steve Kornacki. Thats right. We crossed the river bridge from maine into New Hampshire, made it into the granite state. By the way, i had to stop at an atm machine, thought i would get some cash in taxfree New Hampshire for the rest of the trip. I took out 100 bucks and realized im in New Hampshire and 100 bucks is a politicians salary, did you know in New Hampshire . A state legislator in the state of New Hampshire makes a salary of 100 a year. In california and new york they get over 100,000 a year. This is the lowest salary you will find in the country. A member of the state Legislature Gets 100 bucks a year, so thats the salary in New Hampshire. Of course, when we talk about the president ial race we talk about New Hampshire and the first in the nation president ial primary. Of course, the democratic race the Iowa Caucuses and switch to New Hampshire. This is the modern history of the New Hampshire primary. These are the winners on the democratic side going back to last half century. What you see here, carter in 76. Carter in 80. Dukakis in 88. Gore in 2000. Kerry in 2004. Half the names you see here, half of the winners of the New Hampshire primary in modern times have gone on to win the president ial nomination on the democratic side. 5 for 10, so thats one thing. New hampshire win knows the field, often, not always, goes on to win the democratic nomination. Here is Something Else to keep in mind in New Hampshire, though. These names. Ed muskie, michael dukakis. Paul tsongas, john kerry, bernie sanders, what do they all have in common . They won and they come from states that border New Hampshire. This is another major factor in the New Hampshire primary. Its going to be a factor in 2020. Bernie sanders running again, won it in 2016 from a border state. Came into the race in 2016 already well known in New Hampshire. Elizabeth warren, seth moulton from massachusetts, well known in New Hampshire going into this campaign particularly southern New Hampshire. The boston media market. What does that do . It raises the bar for candidates from border states. If they dont have a Strong Performance in New Hampshire, it is particularly tough for them to justify continuing with their candidacy. So, New Hampshire, its big for everybody, but its particularly big for candidates with that local connection. Remember, again, sanders got 61 of the vote in New Hampshire in 2016. How do things look at this early point in New Hampshire . This is a poll from about a month ago. Monmouth. This is the most recent one weve got. Looks a lot like what we see nationally. Biden in front doubling up bernie sanders. Bernie sanders the 2016 winner. Buttigieg has gotten some early traction here. Warren again if you looked at polls in New Hampshire, some of the early stuff a year or so ago warren was doing better. Warren, any scenario that gets her the nomination, she will need to perform here in New Hampshire. Again it is a neighboring state for her. A lot of folks know her very well. So one thing to keep an eye on. New hampshire winnows the field all the time and really for the border state candidates particularly important. Steve kornacki, just looking at that list of candidates, states aside, were watching that biden number with some fascination. And based on the political theory of chris matthews, the democrats who get serious about electability, that might mean we see the biden number harden or strengthen. The democrats who feel like the party is about something new. Its about the far left. Its about the younger politicians coming up, thats when we will see the biden number weaken. Thats the most fascinating thing. We saw this. There was a batch of polling out nationally today as well. One of the trends we have seen in this democratic race is a massive divide when it comes to age. There was a poll out from our friends at cnn today that showed that joe biden is losing the democratic race. He is losing democrats under 45 years old to bernie sanders. Democrats over 45 years old and there are a lot of democrats over 45 years old, he is not just winning, he is clobbering sanders and the field. That is bidens strength right now. That was the strength for hillary clinton. Ultimately age, olders voters got her the nomination in 2016. That is a very big strength for biden right now heading into 2020 and a vulnerability for him. Younger democratic voters. Steve kornacki, thank you so much. We look forward to the reports every night. Really appreciate it. Thanks. Coming up, our next guest says conservatives in this trump era are orphans in a cold war with no Political Party to call their own. That man, the author of the conservative sensibility, george will here with us in our studio when we come back. What do you think of republicans who say that they may take action to block you imposing the tariffs . I dont think they do that. I think if they do it is foolish. There is nothing more important than borders. Ive had tremendous republican support. I have a 90 94 Approval Rating as of this morning in the republican party. Thats an alltime record. Can you believe that . Isnt that something . I love records. President trump is counting on his support from the Republican Base from keeping republicans in the senate from following through on a threat to block his plan to block tariffs. Trumps actions have prompted some of the most serious defiance in the republican ranks since the president took office. We are so happy to have with us george will, Pulitzer Prize winning conservative columnist from the Washington Post author of the book, the conservative sensibility. Thank you so much for being here. I am old enough to associate conservivism with two names. Buckley and goldwater. Am i wrong and how do you define conservatism versus what it is were seeing today . The book you are holding is dedicated to the memory of Barry Goldwater for whom i cast my first president ial vote. He lost 44 states, but i think he actually won when they counted the votes 16 years later in 1980 with the election of Ronald Reagan. The argument in America Today about conservatism is what we see represented in the 45th president whose name does not appear in the book or is it something that traces its pedigree to James Madison and our constitutional architecture of separated powers . What you just showed on the screen there, the president aghast at the idea that republicans in the senate might act as an independent rivalerous branch with an opinion of its own. Its nice to see them talking about exercising their own judgment in opposition to tariffs, the least conservative policy you can imagine, which is the government telling americans what they can buy at what price and in what quantities. Bossy government doesnt get much bigger or bossier than it does with protectionism. Along the way i was blown away by this that i found about halfway through your book. This is about who we were. In 1951 when the average american ate 50 more than the average european, americans controlled twothirds of the worlds productive capacity, owned 80 of the worlds electrical goods, produced more than 40 percent of its electricity, 60 of its oil and 66 of its steel. Americas 5 of the worlds population had more wealth than the other 95 and americans made almost all of what they consumed, 99. 93 of new cars sold in america in 1954 were u. S. Brands. That knocked me out, too. By the end of the 50s, gm was a bigger economic entity than belgium and los angeles had more cars than did asia. Such pellmell economic progress produced soaring expectations. This would be the new normal. In 1950, 40 of americans had never seen a television program. By may of 53, boston had more televisions than bathtubs. That should be read to every schoolchild in america. I come away from a paragraph like that wanting to ask, george will, what happened to us . We cant seem to build an airport or an interstate highway or, lord knows, a train that goes over 60 miles per hour. If you read those figures to the president , he would say, you see, were not great anymore. Im going to make America Great again. Actually, the decline of american dominance was american policy to bring back japan and germany and make them productive themselves as consumers of our goods but also as trading partners. Oh, we succeeded there. We certainly did, and its a good thing too. Americans suffer generally from social hypochondria. We are always worried that things are bad and getting worse. Things are not bad and not getting worse. In fact, in terms of the great enrichment that capitalism has brought about, we are still on an upward trajectory. If this all depends on an embrace of globalization, on an embrace of the free market enterprise that does not try to wall ourselves off from the outside world. Now, some people say, and President Trump is elected in part in response to this anxiety, that globalization and economic dine mitchell are just too tiring and dangerous and frustrating and full of frictions and setbacks. We dont want to do it anymore. I have news for the american people. They have made so many promises to themselves through entitlement programs that they depend on rapid economic growth. They cant opt out now. That has to throw off the revenues to pay the bills for the promises we made. They also depend on a continuing high level of immigration to replenish an aging workforce. Very soon there will be only 2. 4 workers for every retiree. That is an unsustainable trajectory for the most popular program, social security. George will has agreed to agreed to stay with us over a break while we consume and think about what he said. Coming up, our guest will explain why he calls this book a summons to pessimism. There is a good reason for it. Well talk about it when we come back. Our guest george will remains with us. Of his new project he writes this, and i quote, this book is among other things a summons to pessimism. What is needed now and what is especially incumbent on conservatives to provide is intelligent pessimism that is more than a mere mood. It should be a mentality grounded in a philosophic tradition, forgive me, its late that has a distinguished pedigree and is validated by abundant historical evidence. Nothing lasts. George will, author of the conservative sensibility. That leads me to another question. Does conservatism depend on a vital countweight because that party has the chance to blow itself up if they lose a second president ial. The Democratic Party seems to me somedays to determine to repeat its 2016 achievement of electing this president in the first place. They made an indispensable contribution. By pessimism, i do not mean fatalism. I do not mean that there are any inevitables in this. Nothing lasts but nothing is inevitable either. By intelligent pessimism i mean things can go wrong in so many ways, and democracy is not the normal default position of the world. It is a complex structure depending on a civil society, rich in the kind of social prerequisites that dont just sprout up like dandelions in august. A free market itself laissezfaire requires courts and contracts, fraud laws and adjudication and arberation and all the rest. Its a complicated system we have, and it will not run by itself unless we are constantly recurring, and this is a summons to recurring back to what the founders gave us. Woodrow wilson was the first great progressive and the first president to criticize the american founding, which he did not do peripherally. He did root and branch. He said, separation of powers is all right once, but now we have this complicated country united by steel rails and copper wires and therefore we need a government that can act with dispatch. Headed by a strong president who would be very much like Woodrow Wilson. Okay, you criticize the separation of powers, you get an emancipated presidency and you get what we have today. Now, some people say, well, we loved teddy roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson and his domestic incarnation. And republicans used to be skeptical of the presidency, too, healthily in my judgment. They believed in congressional supremacy. Then they had the heady and intoxicating experience of Ronald Reagan and they too fell in love with executive power. This is a summons among other things to the restoration of the equilibrium among our three branches of government, which requires the beginning of a revival of congress to quit spinning off powers it has no right to spin off. We go right back to the first thing you showed in this segment as i came on the set, the beginning of a pulse in congress that they might resist the president s unilateral, which he is empowered to do because Congress Gave him the power, unilateral imposition of taxes which are what tariffs are. Were right back into the headlines tonight. Im watching people like rob portman of ohio, a republican whos been silent on so many issues of late. Im watching what he does. And pat toomey of pennsylvania. There are a number of them. George will, its always a pleasure. Thank you so much. The book is the conservative sensibility. Our thanks to the author for staying up late with us and being with us here in new york. Another break for us, our final one and coming up, how a tale of two cities was litigated on Live Television earlier today. When we come back. Last thing before we go here tonight, we have never had a president who came directly from the television business, and its sometimes easy to forget, though, less though for us that he hosted a show that originated from this building for 14 seasons in a business where ratings are everything. And we know donald trump has a wellestablished obsession with crowd size. It was quite literally the opening argument of his presidency, and he was still at it today. While some of londons streets were clogged with roving protesters today, a creative lot for the most part, the president gave his own assessment during his press conference with the Prime Minister perhaps not knowing that our own Richard Engel would be Fact Checking him in realtime. So heres how that went. First, the president and then Richard Engel who was appearing with Andrea Mitchell from the london streets live on this Network Earlier today. As far as the protests i have to tell you because i commented on it yesterday, we left the Prime Minister, the queen, the royal family. There were thousands of people on the streets cheering. Reporter theres something deeply disturbing about President Trump claiming he saw thousands of people here who were celebrating him and welcoming him as a rival. Even coming over today there were thousands of people cheering. Reporter the werent tens of thousands of people or thousands of people out there greeting him. And then i heard there were protests, and i said where are the protests . I dont see any protests. Reporter there were several thousand protesters. I did see a small protest today when i came, very small. Reporter there were thousands of people on the streets. So a lot of it is fake news i hate to say. Reporter they were protesting trump, not celebrating his arrival. You saw the people waving the american flag, waving your flag. It was tremendous spirit and love. Reporter is it that he really believed this . Did he see these people and was told by his advisers, oh, those people down below you are here to welcome you and celebrate you and they love you in this town or there was great love. There was an alliance. Reporter or was he trying to convince the world that he got this heros reception in the united kingdom, which he clearly did not . So it was fake news. Reporter the fact he can say these kinds of things with a straight face when they are so contradictory to the facts that lots and lots of journalists saw for themselves is troubling. A tale of two cities after a noisy day on the streets of london. And with it our broadcast for a tuesday night. Thank you so very much for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Tonight on all in. We will be doing a series of volume one of the Mueller Report. Paul manafort may move to reichers island. Thats what my position is. The latest on investigating the president amid more trump world criminality and corruption. Then, senator Sherrod Brown on the trump campaigns troubles in the midwest. Stacey abrams on georgia in the wake of the abortion law. The big town hall with Elizabeth Warren and how trump voting farmers see 2020. Will you vote for donald