He was arrested for allegedly selling loose cigarettes garners cry of I can't breathe became a rallying cry that gave rise to the black lives matter movement the decision on Officer ventilator was still not final the city's police commissioner has the last word on whether to dismiss him this is n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society is committed to bringing hope to patients with acute myeloid leukemia through its persuasion medicine clinical trial learn more at l.l.s. Dot org from the w o u b news room I'm a teach by Idea Columbus's ban on bump stocks is back in effect for now to gun rights group sued Columbus after an act of the ban last year of Rankin County judge then ruled that municipalities can regulate bump stops under federal law but the Columbus Dispatch reports the temp district court of appeals reversed that decision yesterday and sent the case back to county court for further proceedings the court also found the firearms group didn't have standing to participate in the case and moves forward with a gun rights activist as a plaintive bum stocks are a gun accessory that allows a semiautomatic weapons to be fired rapidly. Gov Mike De Wine says evidence made public over the past 2 weeks makes clear that drug makers were responsible for the u.s. Opioid crisis the wind spoke today at a joint appearance with us drugs are Jim Carroll the president's chief drug policy adviser and you're highlighting record usage of prescription drug monitoring portal door and said frozen new documents made public in the massive series of lawsuits seeking to hold the pharmaceutical industry accountable for the deadly opioid epidemic leave no doubt in anyone's mind drug makers were to blame and urged them to quickly settle drug makers argue doctors regulators and ego drug sales played roles it was the one who filed Ohio's lawsuit against certain drug makers as attorney general he said today's comments weren't about a particular lawsuit twin brothers driving to the twins day festival and Twinsburg Ohio said they got pulled over for the 2nd time in 2 years but they say they got off with a ticket and just laugh Andy Baker says he has twin brother Chad were driving from Nashville Tennessee to Twinsburg on Thursday when they were stopped he says they were pulled over because the trooper thought the identical twins had identical license plates but there is a slight difference because one plate houses 0 while the other has the letter o bakers at the trooper got a good laugh out of it and was a good sport he says the brothers weren't so lucky last year when they got tickets for speeding That's a look at your standard regional news at this hour for the latest headlines you can log on to our Web site. This is Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow later in the hour do you know what's in your sunscreen in that it moves from your skin into your blood We'll talk about that but 1st the Amazon rain forest that is often called the planet's lungs in the process of growing and breathing its trees supped suck up a quarter of the Earth's carbon and produce a 5th of the world's oxygen so new data from the National Institute for Space Research in Brazil is of great concern researchers monitoring satellite images of Amazon tree cover found an alarming spike in the Amazon's the forestation in the 1st 7 months of 2019 the rain forest lost 50 percent more trees than during the same time last year that spike in tree loss coincides with Brazil's new president you have a airball in sorrow taking office and. Since January he's She slashed environmental production and has reportedly called the new deforestation data a lie but climate scientists warn deforestation is pushing the Amazon rain forest to a tipping point that would disrupt both its ecosystem and the global climate Dr Carlos no Bray is a climate scientist at the University of South Palos Institute of Advanced Studies He joins us via Skype Welcome to Science Friday. Thank you very much so put this in perspective would you how alarming are these new numbers on the forestation. The numbers are very warming because Brazil was most of the other I was on a Contras for 10 years from 2 poles and 4 of them 1213 they were declining over 70 percent deforestation rates there were really moving towards almost as 0 deforestation and still the production of agricultural products or increasing so deforestation has nothing to do we agree cultural production so everybody was happy but after all the port team deforestation rates. Started to climb back again and the ear of the last 12 months have seen a spike of seeing a surge a very troublesome search very likely to get less 12 months we will see an increase of 40 to 50 percent in the 1st station rates in Brazil also for 6 rates in Kabul government crisi So this is a sign that we might be closer to the tipping point for demo's on if we if it's more than 25 percent of the forest in the Amazon Basin we might be ruing the Amazon forest that would move to a new system in which it becomes irreversible to wanting to force over 56 percent of the basin and now this spike in the 1st Asian has happened under Brazil's news new president gyre Bowl some of also narrow Does he understand this that this is you know a danger. I'm not sure the current president and he's mostly the ministers associate that particularly minister of the environment have a full understanding. Of the risks that our Brazil and the Amazon countries are under because you see the forest is. The Amazon forest provides a lot of ecosystem service for instance recycling water vapor and increasing rainfall keeping temperatures. To 3 degrees cooler dent with all the courts will dismiss all benefits even for agricultural production of salt of the Amazon and so if the force disappears the life Agricultural the life of the people we'll be much worse we call it the courses so I don't think. The president and his Minister for Agriculture understand the full consequences of continuing to do force demos on I think their their policies are aimed at the very short term gains in closing the agricultural year cattle farms and also soil plantations into the Amazon but so is it all about the money. It's about short term gains it's about really seeing opportunities to increase production of those. Goods I recall to a goods but this is very short term because without the Amazon forest if it the productivity of cattle farms or crops will be diminished up to the point that you might not have suitable agricultural crops Lents or grazing lands for cattle in the future in less than 2030 years and what about the indigenous communities and their land in the Amazon and what are his policies on their rights . He comes naturally even when he was a House member for 28 years the president was a House member for a long time he has defended the idea that the Indian nationals lands are too little too large an extent they should not be demarcate that anymore and also knowledge the president he's trying to to convert indigenous culture into a different culture into let's say our culture our farmers. Cattle ranchers so but that's really goals very much I guess that cultural inheritance of these more than 200 different indigenous communities in the Brazilian Amazon they want to keep their cultural weak east I said the forest culture which is not only good for them for their culture but it's also very important for the maintenance of climate stability for the planet if the Amazon forest disappears we are almost impossible to reach the. Targets of the Paris agreement to keep the temperature of the planet less than 2 degrees warmer Well when is there going to be a tipping point in the rain forest where that happens. A lot of scientific studies and I've been involved in those steps for. Almost 30 years they indicate that that if we exceed that 20 to 25 percent of deforestation in the whole Amazon all are if we. Keep global warming unchecked and that temperature in the Amazon region. Increased 4 degrees Celsius we might really see that this balance and the transform see $5060.00 up to 70 percent of the force into the Great that subtle and that which much less carbon with much less biodiversity so we are now currently at the top of deforestation is about 5060 percent in the basin the Amazon is up all to $1.00 degrees warmer so if we continue that deforestation rates as they are the last few years due to pinpoint we'll be exceed that reached something like 20 years and do you find. You know anything besides president ball so narrow in your way or or in the way of making that making sure that doesn't happen well we hope that he will listen to the forces of the people of the Brazilian people the Amazonian people because all all. Polls conducted the west 20 years including polls conducted after he was elected. 90 percent of the Brazilians are against them us only forestation So we hope the moccasin We'll have the last word every Brazilian almost all Brazil does 9 out of 10 I guess them us on forestation So I hope it's actually democracy we don't. And that he will listen to the voice of the people including including his electors . Now how so are some us on forestation Well let's talk about if the rain forest does become a savanna what does happen to the global climate Well initially there will be over the course of these 2 and Zeeshan which might take between 30 and 50 years. A tremendous loss of car the forest source a lot of carbon in underground in the trunks Brant use etc It's a lot of carbon it's about 12020 min and 50 columns of carbon. $13000.00 square metres. Of the grid lots of on it that by quick pace the force is for something like $30.00 to $40.00 so we lose $70.00 to $80.00 tons of cargo per hectare that we end up in the atmosphere s. Carbon dioxide again complicating the. The global global climate crisis so if all these carbon ends up in the atmosphere the. Keeping meeting the targets of the Paris accord will become much much less difficult perhaps even impossible so this is a fact a very important fact and also something known as the great goods of honest content much less by the verse t. So we are talking about extinction of tens of thousands of species that exist only the top of course and the last but not less important is the fact that you know perhaps 1000000 people living in indigenous Lents with their culture their forests go to Mike Yet the risk of losing the force are you hopeful about this seems very scary. Well I'd hopeful that blocks 1st of course with Brazil and all other elements on the Contras that are. To monitor since old people go out and vote so I hope you know this because this issue became so urgent so critical with the. Increase in the poorest ational rates in the last year we are start to pull in the last 12 months that the voice of the people we will be hurt by all politicians not only Brazil but it all cultures and that they will eventually start thinking. Heart there are 5 ways it's almost all we're called we thought of course we have to leave it there and we share your optimism Dr Carlos no break climate scientist at the University of South Palos Institute of Advanced Studies we're going to take a break and come back we're going to talk about sunscreen How much do you know about it how much do you know how it's regulated how much do you know how much of it gets into your bloodstream even though you put it on your skin talk all about that stuff after the break stay with us. I'm Ira Flatow this is Science Friday from studios thank you for joining us for Science Friday on your n.p.r. Station. Science Friday is made possible with support from Jackie streets the brewpub has a menu featuring pizza by the slice from 7 30 pm to 1 am the brewpubs open Thursdays at 7 Fridays at 4 and Saturdays at 2 information Jackie dot com looking at tonight's weather forecast we have a clear night ahead of us overnight lows around 65 degrees sunshine tomorrow with temperatures in the mid and upper eighty's partly cloudy tomorrow night lows near 65 and Sun John Sunday with highs in the mid eighty's coming up tonight. At 9 o'clockne American Masters tonight Ursula k. Le Guin will explore the remarkable life and legacy of the late feminist author whose groundbreaking work included the Left Hand of Darkness which transformed American literature by bringing science fiction into the literary mainstream Ursula k. Le Guin tonight on American Masters That's at 9 o'clock on t.v. . This is Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow it is summer time it is a time when doctors have been telling us to wear sunscreen they've been telling us to do this for decades now right and for good reason melanoma is one of the most dangerous forms of cancer and while some of us might slather spray it on before a day at the beach others are even more diligent and use a little bit of sunscreen every day we asked you to tell us on the Science Friday vox pop app what you've been told about sunscreen and how you use it I have been told by my dermatologist to use a use it use it I've tried it but I don't use it that often I try and just stay covered up as much as I can Recently I read an article suggesting that sunscreen doesn't actually block the cancer causing that it does block the use it causes you to get some good and my understanding is that you need both Uva and u.v.b. Protection probably at least s.p.f. 30 or greater although I've been told that anything above that probably doesn't offer you that much more protection that's just hype Well we're going to talk about that and then those who are listening is Richard in Wisconsin Andrew in New Zealand bill in Oregon on the Science Friday vox pop app so I'm asking you now again what have you been told about sunscreen do you use it download the Science Friday vox pop app and leave us a little voice message there like they did to let us know and you also you can call us now at 844-724-8255 heedful 4724 sign talk or of course you can tweet us at Cy Frye one thing that we're probably all been told is that sunscreen can prevent sunburn even skin cancer but listen to this a recent study conducted by the f.d.a. Put sunscreen safety in question my next guest was not part of the f.d.a. Study but is here to discuss what. We need to know in light of it cannot they a professor of dermatology and the editor in chief of The Journal of the American Medical Association dermatology just to know we did the reach out to the f.d.a. For this segment but they said no one was available to join us today welcome to Science Friday fact that you so much for having me on the show that's great we know that we should use sunscreen but exactly how does it protect our skin from the sun well sunscreen is used for 2 purposes The 1st is to prevent sunburn and the 2nd is to prevent skin cancer when you are exposed there's really 2 types of sunscreens and I think consumers have noticed this when they go shopping to look for purchasing a sunscreen the 1st type is mineral sunscreen These are literally minerals things like titanium dioxide and zinc oxide they coat the skin and that causes reflection or refraction of ultraviolet rays they literally bounce off the skin surface and are blocked from entering the skin the 2nd type are chemical sunscreens these are chemical filters that are used typically in combination with with each other to provide a broad spectrum arse or meaning coverage over the uva and u.v.b. Spectrum and these absorb ultraviolet light now the f.d.a. Tested for chemical sunscreens that are sold in stores today and what did they see . Well they used for commercially available formulations of sunscreen and apply them on a small number of human subjects were 4 groups of 6 in the study and these are paid these are subjects that were kept in climate controlled environment and were asked to apply the medication 4 times a day to 75 percent body surface area so akin to what you would do if you followed the sunscreen label and perhaps or at the beach so you're basically covering all the exposed areas of skin and then what they proceeded to do was to measure the blood levels of the specific sunscreen ingredients they looked at for ingredients oxybenzone to cry Elaine Occam Saul and Eva Ben zone and looked at how the body absorbed these sunscreens over time and the medications were applied 4 times a day for 4 days and what was striking about the study was they saw systemic absorption as early as day one and they saw absorption that persisted into day 7 so 3 days after the sunscreen application had stopped for all of the 4 sunscreens that were tested and those are the chemical substance sunscreens right not the mineral sunscreen that's correct these are all for chemical sunscreen to the mineral ones work differently I mean do they get absorbed into the bloodstream like the chemical ones. That has been tested in the answer is clearly no so titanium dioxide and zinc oxide are not absorbed into the bloodstream Now did the f.d.a. Say there was any you know reason to give up some screens to these chemical ones after they were found in increasing levels in the bloodstream and above f.d.a. Limits correct. That's right so what's striking about the study is that this the levels of sunscreen that were detected in the subjects bloodstreams exceeds a level that has been set by the Food and Drug Administration to be a threshold for testing and that testing is point 5 nanograms per milliliter of blood and what that threshold is is that any medication that's sold in the u.s. . An over the counter medication that's no matter how it's an adjusted or are taken if it exceeds that threshold it needs to go on undergo a safety testing specifically to look at cancer risk and whether that medication has any impact on reproduction and other biog biology functions well now that exceeded that threshold is the f.d.a. Going to test these substances. Well it's important to recognize the Food and Drug Administration is not a testing agency their regulatory agency So their role in in human medicine or in health is to really set the standard for how things should be examined it's really up to the the drug makers to provide the evidence that all of these tests have been done so the 1st test is whether or not it's absorbed and whether it exceeds that threshold that we just talked about and then the 2nd if it is absorbed the drug manufacturers are obligated to provide standard testing results. Things like the cancer risk and reproduction farm so there are they required now to go out and do these tests that's correct and in fact there's a proposal that's been put forth by the Food and Drug Administration that we would like that they would like this to happen before November of $21000.00 so that soon in just a couple of months however this conversation has been going on for decades so the Food and Drug Administration has regulated sunscreen since the 1970 s. And in the late 1990 s. The Food and Drug Administration asked sunscreen manufacturers to provide the safety dating data about systemic absorption and for many years they've gone back and forth and for various reasons they have not seen the results yet so this has been a dance that's going on for decades. That's right it really has to do with really it gets at the heart of how over the counter medications are regulated in the u.s. I'm not an f.d.a. Member I'm not a drug regulatory expert but I my understanding is that all over the counter medications are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration So that's important to recognize sunscreen isn't just a cosmetic here in the u.s. It's a medication and that's different in other countries sunscreen is sold as a cosmetic agent so it does undergo different testing outside of the u.s. But in the u.s. It's considered a medication and therefore it does have to fall under all the same regulations that other medications that we take do here in the u.s. And but that that retesting has never happened and it has a lot to do with the fact that sunscreens were initially approved as medications many many decades ago before a lot of this modern era of drug regulation really took place it's really now in more recent years that we have clear standards for how all over the counter medications are tested so if I'm just going to assume that we we should assume that what is past is also going to be happening in the future that we're not going to get these tests why suddenly Should we be getting these tests and if we're not getting these tests what do you as a dermatologist recommend that people Him do about themselves and their kids. Well what we know right now is that these 4 at least these 4 chemical sunscreens that were studied in this particular research article are absorbed into the bloodstream what we don't know and this is so important for listeners to understand is that we don't know if they have any human harm in terms of health impacts or health effects so the 1st really important issue is that we need to do these studies either the sunscreen industry needs to do them or medicine needs to do them and that's really the 1st and foremost point I wanted to make the 2nd is for listeners to recognize that there's many different forms of what we call sun protection are many different steps of how we protect ourselves from the sun and sunscreen is just one of them. It's very important for people to wear protective clothing that includes hats sunglasses you know long sleeve shirts long long pants when we're outdoors when possible and then to use sunscreen on the areas that are exposed people have a lot of control over when they do their exercise to for example of voiding sun direct sun during the peak hours of the sun which are defined as 10 am to 2 pm in the afternoon and seeking shade when possible so these are all parts of a sort of a sun protection regimen that people can participate in the other is that there still are sunscreens that we know are safe these are the minimal mineral sunscreens that I mentioned earlier the titanium dioxide in the sink oxide those are widely available in throughout the u.s. And make up a good portion of the sunscreens that are available here in the u.s. And are have been deemed have been tested and deemed safe so those are a great option for people who have any concerns about the chemical sunscreens Well what about bringing in some screens from other countries if you're in you're in Great Britain or wherever you can you just go into boots or someplace and you know and stock up on them. That's absolutely right for those who are lucky enough to travel outside the u.s. They've probably noticed that when they try to purchase sunscreen in a different country that the sunscreen agents that are available there are very different from those that are available here in the u.s. We've really had kind of a standstill in terms of new sunscreen filters being approved by the Food and Drug Administration in the u.s. And it wasn't until 2014 under President Obama that that there was a sunscreen Innovation Act which really put forth a roadmap for how the new sunscreen ingredients would be approved into the u.s. While being regulated there are many different agents out there in sunscreen ingredients that are available worldwide that is definitely want to option we also don't know a lot about the testing on those because as I mentioned before they are they are regulated as cosmetics elsewhere so I think it's really going to set forth a big self reflection of the sunscreen industry in terms of thinking about how we should be testing these things how we should be regulating them and these are all really important questions that have been raised by the current study see if we get a few phone calls in because of course everybody's concerned Michael in Fayetteville Arkansas. Oh go for. It yeah about that in years ago I got a sunspot on my neck in fact by a doctor told me that the wear sunscreen I work outside I wear sunscreen I put it on at least 3 times a day you know I lather it on repeat I'm concerned that that's not. The get there kind of a support spoken but it is just this one thing and protect me from you know you know or should I be you know it's hot down here in Arkansas but I've considered wearing long sleeves and just completely covering my body that's the best option if I do have concerns about Answer I do have a father and grandmother that effect it to move from their forehead and neck Ok good question. Covering up down is our say even though it's hot and maybe the better thing to do. Well covering up is definitely an option and we're lucky to have so many different. Different ways of doing that you know and I think of the fashion around it has also improved there's much more fashionable sun sun clothing available and it's widely available at you know really common stores not just the sports stores so I would definitely courage people to do that you mention the spot on your neck and there are things that they're called neck buff they're like scars but not made out of wool that we wear in the winter but they're made out of different types of lighter breathable materials that can cover the neck and will really allow you to be able to work outside in under hot conditions and I really liked what your caller said about reapplying what we don't know from the study as I mentioned the study showed people who are kept in more climate controlled. Environment but what we don't know is how much is sunscreen is absorbed in real world conditions for example when we are working outside when we're sweating when we're swimming doing exercise we don't know whether that systemic absorption would go up or down relative to those research subjects that were studied in this article so definitely love the idea of covering up I love the idea of reapplying the sunscreen especially if you're working and sweating I'm Ira Flatow this is Science Friday from w. N.y.c. Studios. Talking about sunscreens with Dr Kanade. Tell us about s.p.f. Factors they go from 15 to 100. Well I remember growing up we had sunscreen s.p.f. 248 and maybe 15 was the highest it went and now I've seen sunscreens as high as 110 s.p.f. S.p.f. Is really a factor that allows us to measure how much protection we have in terms of time outdoors if you're likely to burn within a certain amount of time s.p.f. 2 would allow you to be outdoors or under direct sun exposure for twice the length of your normal burn rate obviously that's going to be different for every individual who uses sunscreen but the recommendation is that s.p.f. 30 is a good thing to shoot for when you're out purchasing a sunscreen because that works for most people and essentially blocks almost 95 percent to 97 percent of all the u.v. That's that's you're being exposed to so you don't have to go for 50 or 70 you're saying or anything above 30 well that's the party line s.p.f. 30 is definitely the party line however we do know from from many scientific studies that in real world use many users don't apply the sunscreen thick enough and if you don't apply the sunscreen adequately you're actually getting less s.p.f. Protection right because you're just dosing yourself with less of the medication so one of the purposes of looking at an s.p.f. That's 50 or higher can be that if you use half the amount you're essentially getting the right amount right however Yeah and I think also too that it gives you a little bit more wiggle room in terms of some of the factors that we don't have a lot of control over for example how much of your sunscreen gets rubbed off or how much of it how much of it washes off when we're swimming or sweating but if you do it the right way and you put and then and that's an important thing that you brought up you have to put enough of it on your skin some so I think I don't want to waste it and when I don't want to use the tube up so I put it in layer on right . That's right well for the average sized adult The recommendation is to use one ounce or a shot glass if that helps your listeners kind of visualize how much of that sunscreen would be and most sunscreens that we purchase in a store at least a regular sized tube of sunscreen would be about 4 ounces so if you can imagine an adult going out to the beach and they're going to apply the medication to their entire body and are going to put it on 4 times a day which is what it says on the sunscreen label that that bottle is going to go pretty quickly it's going to be pretty much used up within a day or 2 and as we probably all would admit that that usually doesn't happen so it means to say that all of us are probably not using enough and of course you want to put it on again as it wears off so that bottles are going to last even a whole day. Now this is a really interesting stuff Ana thank you for taking time to be with us today my pleasure. Professor of dermatology and editor in chief of The Journal of the American Medical Association term Attala g. Section we're going to take a break and afterwards we're going to get slimed I love that movie didn't you we're going to talk about not that kind of slime algal slime algae you might not know it but algae is key for a healthy planet we'll talk more about it just about everywhere I mean or where there's water there's algae the green stuff even you know at this zoo in polar bears I'll tell you about my 1st experience with it after the break steak Stay with us we'll be right back. I'm Ira Flatow this is Science Friday from w. N.y.c. Studios. Science Friday is supported by Progressive Insurance offering snapshot a device designed to reward safe drivers learn more at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive Now that's progressive support also comes from the high sing Simons foundation unlocking knowledge opportunity and possibilities more at h.s. Foundation dot org Science Friday is supported by Indeed with indeed employers can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then 0 in on a short list of screen candidates using an online dashboard more info at Indeed dot com slash higher Science Friday is produced by the Science Friday initiative dedicated to increasing the public's access to scientific information learn more about their work at Science Friday dot This is Science Friday on member supported w. B. Public media looking at tonight's weather forecast it's going to be a clear night temperatures will fall back into the mid sixty's again tomorrow sunshine much like today we're expecting high temperatures in the mid and upper eighty's partly cloudy Tomorrow night a low of 65 and sunshine Sunday with highs in the mid eighty's Thanks for turning into Science Friday this afternoon it's made possible with support from Stewart's opera house Nelsonville presenting the Summer Wine Express on the Hawking Valley Scenic Railway Friday August 23rd at 630 an evening of wine cheese and historic train ride tickets available at 740-753-1924 or at Stewart's opera house dots were g. . So people in Paradise California are rebuilding after the deadly campfire but they're getting mixed messages from officials about whether the water is safe to drink the flip flopping is what causes me more stress knowing that one day it's fine couple weeks later whoops it's not I'm Audie Cornish the water crisis in paradise this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News. That story much more coming up on all things considered that gets underway at 4 o'clock here on the music coming up tonight at 7 o'clock it's Friday so get things started with live from your McAlpin and for Peace Ranch We're back in the studios at 8 o'clock for crossing boundaries with Brian Gibson at 10 o'clock the World Cafe That's all tonight on. This is Science Friday I'm Ira Flatow as a kid the 1st time I saw a polar bear at this zoom I was shocked to see that its fur was green where did that green come from I wonder Well years later I would learn that polar bear fur was actually hollow and in the hollows would grow algae finding its way in from the water polar bears like to swim in those Bears started me on a lifelong citizen science Quest about algae here think about algae if you have a fish tank you do seeing it growing on the glass in bright green fluffy mats boy I encountered that in my fish tank factors of the algae is all around us for good and bad algae provide 50 percent of the oxygen that we breathe but they can also bloom into poisonous and deadly pools these ancient organisms are a big part of all this since the photosynthesis on our planet but they usually go unnoticed until something bad happens my next guest says you won't find algae dressed in flowers wafting sense or sporting seeds and berries plants are the fancy pants photosynthesize of our world algae are the plain Janes in fact he says algae are not plants we'll talk about that in a new book she gives these plain Janes their time in the sun sharing with us her hunt to see how algae are used around the world for food alternative fuels and importantly for a healthy planet with Cason ger is a science writer based out of Bethesda and her new book is called slime how algae created us plague us and just might save us welcome to Science Friday. Thank you for inviting me I'm delighted to be here I love how that name rolls off your tongue when I took some while for you to do then I. We have an excerpt of your book on our website at Science Friday dot com slash Slimer you might get this a lot but how did you get interested in algae I mean I got interested I told you at the zoo it became a lifelong passion for me added that happen for you well I was working on another book book about the history of conservatories glass conservatories and looking for the most modern representation of one of those and that took me to El Paso Texas in about 2008 where an entrepreneur was growing algae underneath a. Glass conservatory and growing it in clear plastic panels were about 8 feet tall and 4 feet wide and a few inches thick and filled with water that had algae growing in it and he was determined to grow the algae spin the water out of the algae and then. Get the oil out of the algae and he was doing it. He his business didn't survive but I was so fascinated by this because wow here we are making oil instead of. Taking it out of the ground and we're doing it without using any arab oil land or any fresh water it just seemed great to me and the more I looked into the more I realized that even this wonderful application was just a small part of what algae is all about let's talk about that how what algae actually is because I think people are are shocked to learn that algae is not a plant is it what exactly is it will you know it's really hard to say exactly what algae is because it's not a taxonomic category like Anna Mae Alia or homo sapiens it's actually a catch all term that refers to 3 different kinds of organisms the smallest one is cyanobacteria and that is a very simple organism we dated to bacteria only at Fota synthesizes then there are micro algae which are a little bit larger but still invisible and they're more complicated inside and can produce a lot more kinds of proteins and vitamins things that we really appreciate and then there are macro algae which are the seaweeds you know those that those are the conglomerations of algae that actually have parts like a plant but as you said in your opening algae are definitely not part of the plant community they don't have far they don't have stems they don't have flowers. So they actually are more efficient at taking sunlight and turning it into things that we like rather than turning it into plant material in my quest to study algae over the years I've learned some interesting facts that I'd like to check with you for example. 90 percent of all the green stuff growing in the ocean and not plants like it's algae is 90 percent including the giant kelp beds kelp around kelp or algae the up there 150 feet tall and there they are algae macro algae. And how do they reproduce that. Well the smallest ones the cyanobacteria simply divide micro algae most of them divide but some of them reproduce sexually. But don't get any x. Rated visions in your head because all they do is release spores that meet in the ocean and form new individuals and that's the same thing with seaweeds. Now we've heard we were in the summer we've heard about these deadly algae blooms What is that what's going on there will most of these blooms are really manmade it's because algae are very happy in warm water and they love nitrogen and phosphorus and that nitrogen and phosphorus gets to them in large amounts because we're putting too much fertilizer onto our farmland and so for example in the Midwest. Where there are lots of farms the fertilizer washes off in the spring. Finds its way into the Mississippi then finds its way into the Mississippi the mouth of the Mississippi and into the Gulf of Mexico and algae with all that food for them because that's what they eat nitrogen and phosphorus they just go crazy and divide and divide and divide can algae live without water at all for any period of time like bacteria might yes algae you know are pretty remarkable in that they can survive in almost any environment there are algae that go dormant in the desert and might only reappear get green and reproduce in with spring rains there algae that live only in the Arctic and they're actually pretty important algae. Hikers often see those there are a kind of algae The variety is called in the valise and they have red pigments that they use to capture sunlight and they turn the snow red or pink when they bloom in in the spring when there's just a little bit of free water interesting Our number 844-724-8255 extension 84 Forsyte Saga if you'd like to join us you can also tweet us at Cy fry if algae are that hardy and can survive I remember seeing algae growing in lakes in Antarctica when I was there many years ago. Might me we might we when we send probes to other planets for the moons of other planets and their oceans there should we be looking possibly for. I think it's you know it's it's a possibility why not the algae can survive in very salty waters and the scientists best guess are that the wall water's on Mars beneath the surface . Are extremely salty and that's what helps keep them liquid. So they could be there and certainly scientists who are interested in colonizing Mars do think about taking algae with them to one create oxygen and also there they can be full of protein and and other. Vitamins and other good things for human beings so you know we we might be wanting to take algae with us to Mars and that the title of your book talking with Ruth passengers slime how algae created this plague us and just might save us where does the term slime come from when you talk about algae Well the slime that we are not very appreciative of on seaweed for example is really a saving grace for for the organism when algae 1st evolved and that was about 3800000000 years ago there was no oxygen in the air and so there was no ozone layer and they were their d.n.a. Would have been fried if they hadn't developed a kind of sunscreen and that's exactly what they did it said polysaccharide sunscreen that. Protected cyanobacteria and all other micro algae and sea weeds and I should add it is under investigation as a sunscreen for us very well and we talked about that earlier in the prior so and that's a that's fastenings the algae by creating this sunscreen allowed life to develop. On the planet Yes yes algae were absolutely critical to making our planet a livable place to be. Of course they produced oxygen and we all we all been obviously benefit from that and all oxygen breathing creatures but they also created all the iron oxide on the planet the the seas used to be filled with iron and it actually took more than a 1000000000 years for the oxygen escaping from algae to oxidize all the iron so a 3000000000 tons of iron oxide on the planet is all due to algae and they were also critical in capturing nitrogen if if algae weren't able to fix nitrogen then there would be no life on the planet that was more complicated than a single cell. Quite fascinating let's go to the phones let's go to Priscilla in Baton Rouge hyper Sela. Or how are you fine how are you I don't get time ever calling any time if. I'd like you so a lot I appreciate all all that you do here is my question Ok. Like in that though the definition of a plant right don't we usually think of a plant that's something that makes its own set of the process of that that you got your guest was saying that like well they're not really plants so. I'd like an answer to why it's not a plant if in fact it does. Produce its own food Ok. With the thought of that that because you asked for it we're going to answer that root passenger Thanks thanks for calling Thanks for being a listening room well. Plants. Have roots and they have what are known as the ask you are systems which are tubes inside that carry water up and food down to the roots and to the leaves algae don't have those things algae because they float in the water although they do photosynthesize they don't need those kinds of systems because the nutrients that they are getting come not from the earth but they just pass right through the algae cells cell walls so that's the critical difference between algae and plants. We're talking about algae with Ruth gas and you're author of slime how algae created us plague us and just might save us on Science Friday from w. N.y.c. Studios. And you know like we talk about bacteria in the plural Algy is also the plural term right it is is the singular Yeah I know confuse those. Change your plea. Now the forms something called mucilage doesn't sound very appetizing No that's that that's that stuff that is the slime that keeps them from getting their d.n.a. Fried and it's not very pleasant to touch although I have to say after years of touching seaweed actually it's perfectly fine I think now let's talk about how we're algae it's all over the place for example the famous white cliffs of Dover are not made out of little court sand particles it's all that algae right that's right it's algae and some other. Microscopic creatures but yes you know algae after they voted to synthesize and divide and eventually die they sink to the bottom of the ocean taking their carbon with them which is a very good thing for our atmosphere they constantly are cleaning the atmosphere of carbon dioxide but after millions in some cases billions of years with tectonic plate movements and volcanoes and other shifts in the ocean crust those layers become visible again and that's exactly what happened with the white cliffs of Dover. That's many many feet of. Of dead algae and other creatures Now I know used to have a coral reef a small coral reef and my fish tank in my in my house and I used to notice had the colors in there and I learned that algae are crucial for the the livelihood of coral correct and that they if they lose their algae they baby they die off yes you know it's it's it's in post. Well to imagine you cannot have a coral reef without algae corals are actually animals and what we see and think of the coral part is really the calcium carbonate shell that they build up over time but inside the calcium carbonate is a little animal looks a bit like an anemone and it's called a polyp and that polyp comes out of the coral at night chiefly and snags little microscopic creatures and is so plankton but that's not enough to feed a pall that's only about 10 percent of the polyps diet the rest of the food that the polyp gets from the algae that are living inside it and those algae photosynthesize produce sugars and share them with the halt fascinating thank you fascinating I but we've run out of time so much and Ruth Cass and yours book Ruth is a science writer based in Bethesda her new book is slime how algae created this plague us and just might save us a lot of great reading great and great research on this Ruth thank you for doing this for mine l.j. Lover to another thank you very much for having me you're welcome and you can read an excerpt up on our website at Science Friday dot com slash slime quick a program note a few weeks ago when our degrees of change segment we asked you to tell us on the side fry vox pop app if you've changed what you eat in response to climate change and here's what my really in Oregon had to say at our home we have made some changes to our diet we now try to find foods that are grown local and we also try to make dishes that include foods that are in season and not just the foods that are provided year round and we want to continue gathering your opinions and ideas on all kinds of topics for upcoming shows So share with us here right. She is just like she that all you have to do is download the Science Friday vox pop app where ever you get your apps and just leave us a little measuring a little message on there like she did and you can join us each week have a great weekend we'll see you next week I'm Ira Flatow in New York in New York. Science Friday is supported by Progressive insurance providing tools designed to help customers consider options from multiple insurers comparisons available at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive Now that's progressive Science Friday's also supported by Indeed with indeed employers can post a job in minutes set up screener questions and 0 in on a shortlist of screen candidates using an online dashboard more info at Indeed dot com slash higher support for Science Friday comes from the Research Corporation for science advancement nurturing teachers scholars and innovative basic research in the physical sciences and American colleges and universities since 1912 more at rest corp dot org. This is supported w. In y.c. Studios thank you for joining us for Science Friday on this Friday afternoon here on your n.p.r. Station public media we are b.f.m. Adams w o u c f m Cambridge w both you well of them Ironton w u h f m Chillicothe the use e.f.m. Zanesville You can also find us at w o u b dot org Science Friday was made possible with support from Jackie o. As on Western street napkins the brewpub has a menu featuring pizza by the slice from 7 30 pm to 1 am the brewpubs open Thursdays at 7 Fridays at 4 and Saturdays at 2 information at Jackie o o's dot com. All things considered is next at 7 o'clock the music begins with live from your commands for Peace Ranch. For crossing boundaries that aids planet 10 o'clock stick around for the World Cafe on the next World Cafe we celebrate the launch of season 3 of n.p.r. Music's. Season 3 shines a spotlight on the 8 founding mothers of modern music including Sister Rosetta Tharpe Billie Holiday Ella Fitzgerald and Cruz. For turning the tables on the next well cafe. Join us for the World Cafe tonight at 10 o'clock right here on double to be public media a news update from n.p.r. Is coming up in one minute then we'll check in with the w.b. Newsroom at 4 after it's 4 o'clock Good afternoon. By the president a wave of retirements. Republican House member today is Friday August 2nd and this is All Things Considered from n.p.r. News. I'm Audie Cornish and I'm Ari Shapiro coming up the woman in charge of recruiting new g.o.p. Candidates is also leaving what all this says about the direction of the party also our Friday political commentators review the highs and lows of the Democratic primary debates. Even though the flavor in Texas the death of a 9 month old girl in a hot car highlights a rare but dangerous risk that parents forget that the child's in the car just in the same way the parent might forget to stop at the grocery store on the way home plus a new survey finds public trust of scientists is growing this news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying a majority of House Democrats is now on the record in favor of an impeachment inquiry against President Donald Trump N.P.R.'s Susan Davis has more California congressman Salut car Bahal became the 118th congressman in support of impeachment proceedings in a statement he said he read the report and concluded the president encouraged Russian meddling in the 2016 election evaded questioning about it and encouraged staff to lie Karbala said those actions were quote criminal and if anyone but the president had done it they would be indicted the symbolic milestone is not expected to budge Speaker Nancy Pelosi she supports the ongoing investigations by 6 House committees but has said the House will not move forward with impeachment unless there's an overwhelming case to make and with bipartisan support Susan Davis n.p.r. News Washington. Put our egos at a political crossroads says the u.s. Commonwealth approaches the 2 year anniversary of Hurricane Maria an hour from now governor. Is expected to leave office after weeks of mass demonstrations against corruption N.P.R.'s up in your losses says this hour the legislature has been questioning procedure as possible successor pivotal p.s. Louis c. Embattled governor with card to grossly Yost pick to become the next governor better p.r. Louis c. Is a lawyer with an ex those of public record on the island and in Washington a former secretary of justice and Puerto Rico's representative in the u.s. Congress but some legislators in Puerto Rico have raised concerns when asked directly about conflict of interest Peter Lucy said it's hard to answer a hypothetical question from the tsunami. I don't forsee conflicts he said but if anything were to come out we have ethics laws and mechanisms to prevent it but legislators questioned his work overseeing board to Rico's finances on the federal control board Mary's opinion n.p.r. News San Juan Puerto Rico a New York Police Department judge is recommending officer Daniel Pearl.