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this compromise bill. so as you mention the politics are fascinating. you have the president and vice president calling rank and file democrats asking them to vote in favor of the package. you had nancy pelosi and elizabeth warren on the other side saying stand up and fight. bottom line it got through. there were conservative defections because some of them wanted to vote to fight the immigration executive order. it now appears that that will happen in february when funding for homeland security is due to expire, sean. >> mike, thank you. joining us mow from the white house is fox's own ed henry. i guess we've got a new world order in washington tonight, ed. >> we do. >> and why would john boehner not wait for the new congressional majority and just do a short-term cr? >> well, that's a good question. and i think john boehner's going to be facing that come january. everyone's going to run out of town now if in fact this gets through the senate. that's still a hurdle that has to be met. you've got democrats like senator elizabeth warren saying she may hold all this up and do
this. again, he keeps the government open. and that was a short-term priority. but medium and long-term the president gets his health care and immigration priorities moving forward. that's not what rank and file conservatives want. there are republican leaders tonight saying, look, what we did was set the stage for big battles ahead next year. we'll see. we've heard that before. we're going to repeal obamacare. we're going to do this and then republican leaders don't follow through. we'll see whether their base is upset tonight or not, sean. >> ed, the speaker would have had more leverage with the majority of congress coming in in january here. as you pointed out health care is funded, obamacare's funded through october now of next year. immigration will come up, what, some time in february. >> february. >> there's no telling what they're going to do there either. the question is if every republican ran on the idea of repealing health care and replacing it, that's off the table now pretty much for the rest of the year, right? >> exactly. and, look, in fairness to john boehner, maybe he made the calculation tonight and we'll
see the reporting in the hours and days ahead that as you're suggesting, look, he'll have a stronger majority in january and february and big deal he'll have mitch mcconnell majority leader, harry reid will be out as leader. so maybe john boehner is calculating we'll win the battles ahead on immigration and health care. but you can bet the president is calculating every time he wins one of these battles and gets funding for his health care law, funding for executive action on immigration, the president lives another day to keep moving the ball forward and delaying stoppages. so john boehner may be calculating he'll win down the road, the president is happy he didn't lose tonight. >> joining me from capitol hill our texas congressman louie gohmert. i want to start with this alliance because as they voted on the rule earlier today, there
was a point they were down three votes. then you had a shift of a couple people in the final moments. but you had the president, jou had john boehner, rather, needing joe biden, needing the president, needing steny hoyer, throughout the day at any point were you consulted, were you brought in to the discussions? were you encouraged to vote for this? >> no. there was no encouragement to conservatives. the speaker and majority leader, these folks knew there's money for abortion, money for the epa to hurt states like texas, arizona. there's just all kinds of money in there for things we don't support. and, sean, you and i know some of us have gone to our leadership and said, look, we can do this very easily. let's do it together with conservatives. that's the bulk of our conference.
don't make them take a wrong vote. let's fund everything for two months. let us have a vote on defunding obama's amnesty. and we'll even agree that the senate can take it out if they take the hard vote to do that and let it go from there to the president. we were willing to work with them to compromise. and not one word, as you know, the calls went to the white house when in a time that the speaker needed votes he turned to somebody that he really identifies with, the president and liberal democrats and got them to help him pass this vote. >> congressman, let me bring you in. the whip said tonight, we have set the stage for battle with the president of the united states. didn't they just give up a lot of leverage that they would have had with the new majority? do you agree with that statement? do you see any way now with the funding of obamacare through the fiscal year that there's any way it could be defunded at this
point? >> not unless we put out a new spending bill. and i don't see that happening. also back to the question you asked louie, i went to leadership told them -- there is a bicameral, house is send it to the senate and stop folding before we even show our hand. i said if we would send it to the senate and then let it then work there will, we may be surprised. there may be a lot of democrats feeling pain and heat from the election that they'll do the right thing. but you never know. you never know if you always punt the ball. sometimes you've got to run, sometimes you've got to pass. but my frustration is i led the charge with the letter about a month and a half ago with 69 people saying we wanted to defund this. and we both voted against the
rule. we did not switch our vote at the last minute. we believe the right thing to do was let the members have a vote on this amendment. but they didn't want it coming to the floor because they knew it would pass. >> if you would have passed a short-term resolution to fund the government, that you would have had the opportunity to maybe do some new bold and dynamic things. for example maybe deal with the issue of the budget deficit which wasn't addressed here, not fund obamacare. there's a new poll out today, 58% of the american people want it repealed that you could have addressed that issue. and john boehner, the speaker, you know, work with the president, vice president, harry reid to get this thing done. so one has to ask the question, did john boehner mean what he said when he talked about that they were going to defund obamacare, repeal and replace it? why is john boehner cutting deals with the president? >> he said he was going to fight it tooth and nail. and fighting it tooth and nail would have been to put our amendment on the floor.
in three weeks we're going to all raise our right hand and swear to defend the constitution -- >> well, sean, what we did was only fund dhs for two months. so it appears the thing we want to take hostage is the department of homeland security. the border patrol. so the rule in taking hostages is never take a hostage the other side wants you to shoot. we go to the president, this is the way it plays out. this is the hand we're left with. we go to the president in two months and say, okay, either you stop your amnesty altogether, or we're not going to put border patrol on the border. >> last question. i'm running out of time. do you think either one of you in any way, shape, matter or form that this impacts john boehner's running for re-election as speaker? is this going to come up in play now? >> i think he ought to be able to pick up some democratic votes for speaker this time.
for capitol hill chad per gragr. you are in charge of updating all of us on comings and goings and you have been so detailed all day long. inside but very important to all of us here at fox. thank you for your great work. >> thank you. >> you started early this morning by talking about the rule vote and how the republicans almost didn't get that passed and a lot of drama. walk us through what happened. >> well, in the house of representatives on almost every piece of legislation that comes to the floor you first have to approve what's called the rule. this is just a procedural matter here. if you don't have a rule which governs the debate, you can't get to the actual bill. you have to do that first. this was very high drama in the house of representatives. at one point the democrats were actually beating this back by about three or four votes. then you had two members that came down into the well of the chamber, a republican who switched his vote from indiana,
200-213, that's a tie by rule and then a freshman who lost his primary, republican from michigan, he switched his vote and they passed it 214-212. that was really tough. and i talked to bentivolio later in the day and he said, look, there was this flash of political savvy that came about him and he was trying to be a little facetious, but he thought i thought maybe we could get a better deal if i voted to move this to advance that package there. so that was pretty high drama. otherwise this would have been dead in the water, toast, and they couldn't have gotten to this vote just about an hour ago in the house. >> interesting the speaker had to rely on the president and all the democrats. in this bill you've got amnesty being funded to the tune of $2.5 billion, chad, when you break it all down in the varying departments. marsha blackburn says it funds king obama's amnesty.
and then health care funded through the fiscal year october 1, correct? >> that's the interesting thing in this is all the fighting and all the skirmish over obamacare over the last five years on capitol hill, no new funding for obamacare. no new funding. so there was not really a fight over obamacare in this bill. that was the interesting thing. >> isn't that the leverage they gave up? >> that was the fight last fall. >> yeah. >> that's what some people think. and that was if you talked to conservatives like michele bachmann and steve king, they were very disappointed the night before last where this was not made an order their amendment to sort of shackle the department of homeland security, shackle the spending in some way the dhs would handle immigration services. and that amendment was not made an order. the problem of course then a democratic senate and harry reid probably wopt have thought too kindly of that and president obama would have veto that had and that would have invited a government shutdown.
so this was the fine line that the republican leadership and specifically house speaker john boehner had to walk. to fight this next year on immigration. >> they certainly could have gone with a short-term cr otherwise the democrats would have been responsible for shutting down the government. chad, great job. obviously you helped all of us here at fox. joining us now fox news political analyst juan williams and from the weekly standard fox news contributor steve hayes. there's a reason in my mind, steve, that john boehner would need the president, the vice president, harry reid and steny hoyer in all of this. and i think it's pretty simple. i think the reason that obama would support him and biden and reid would support him is because they knew that the speaker would have more power and leverage if they did a cr into february. so the question is, why did john boehner do this? i understand why the president did, because i think this was a great deal for the president. >> yeah. there's no question, i was just talking to republican members of congress including conservatives who supported the deal.
and they say in effect, look, that wouldn't have helped us much. we wouldn't have the kind of leverage that many people outside think we would have had. in any case what this shows is that democrats are divided or more divided than republicans. we've seen this kind of infighting between republicans in the past. what we haven't seen is this open defiance of president obama from leaders of the left of the democratic party. >> i guess we could argue that the president's a lame duck and ed henry rightly so was making that argument all day, this would be a test of the president's power. the president did get enough votes to get what he wanted. he wanted this bill passed. and, juan williams, i've got to believe this probably makes you happy because this is the best case scenario, the president gets $2.5 billion for illegal immigrants, he gets obamacare funded through october. >> you know, the whole different narrative going on here, sean, which is that you have the liberals up in arms over there because of the changes that are in this bill that allow, of
course, more money to be spent in terms of blind money coming to campaign finance, but most of all rolls back some of the dodd frank financial stuff. so they're the ones that are angry at president obama. and i hear from, you know, steve king and you saying, oh, we're upset that boehner played along. let me tell you, it's the left here and the split with president obama that i think is the big story. >> but the president -- hang on, but president still got the votes he needed to want. >> he did. >> he wanted this bill passed. i understand all the people you're referring to, i read the adjustments to the dodd frank provision, but in the end the president got what he wanted. and i think he was astute enough. and, steve, i go back to my point he was astute enough to understand this was going to be the better deal because with the new majority in january, boehner would have had more power. and they constitutionally have the power of the purse. and i suspect the president feared that come february,
right? >> well, that is precisely the argument david axelrod said on twitter. he basically said in 140 characters exactly what you just said. >> oh, great. i'm done. you just ruined me, steve. you just ruined my life. what are you doing? >> i was telling the truth, sean. i report. you decide. >> you report, i decide, i'm dead. look at how juan williams is smiling. he's giddy. >> i could go crazy but this is where we are in the politics of the moment. >> it's crazy. >> the senate just voted to say we're going to continue this for two more days so there won't be a shut down. and they're going to have a fight because elizabeth warren and left wing politics so angry at wall street is going to be on full display in terms of saying
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confusion or abnormal behavior. the most common side effects are mild to moderate nausea and vomiting. ask your doctor about tamiflu and attack the flu virus at its source. this a fox news alert. a government shutdown has been avoided. a short time ago the house passed a $1.1 trillion spending bill that was reported by both speaker boehner, president obama, harry reid and vice
president biden. and as you can imagine this measure did not sit well with a number of conservatives including me and including congressman jim bridenstein. he put out this tweet explaining why. i think it quotes it very well. he says, here are just the five of the main reasons i will be voting now on the omnibus bill that fully funds obamacare, over 1600 pages long, actually 1774, and spends $1.1 trillion filled with political favors. here with reaction minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann and iowa congressman steve king. i know you tried to persuade the speaker and leadership all day to go for a short-term cr. what is the possible explanation why they would not do something that was so smart that would have given them more leverage and power come the new year? >> well, i think the reason why they did it is because the political establishment made a decision months ago this they
were going to get amnesty. and they were going to pay for amnesty. the executive amnesty is what they didn't like. president obama doing it alone. but they wanted amnesty. let's not mince words. both republican and democrats, the leadership, the establishment, wanted to have amnesty -- >> hold on. are you saying, congresswoman, that this deal was struck, we think back in september when they decided -- remember when they decided to move this deal to december -- i forget the exact month. but you're saying that you think john boehner sat in a room with barack obama and said we want to, a wink and a nod, and this is how we'll do it? you believe that happened? >> the political establishment wants full-on amnesty. they were going to get it one way or another. they wanted it all done before the new senate was sworn in. i think the main thing we need to know is this vote never, ever, ever, in any parallel universe would have happened the week before the election. it wouldn't have happened.
people? did john boehner cut a back room deal on this? and is that why he did not accept the power of the new majority when he would have had more authority? do you believe that some type of back room deal was made, congresswoman? >> a deal was made. there's no question. a deal was made. they wanted to have amnesty. they were completely fine with amnesty -- >> they don't want to de-fund obamacare? they don't want to de-fund it and replace it? >> all i know is this afternoon the speaker gave a private meeting to steve king and i. we offered a positive alternative that would unify the gop and get this deal done. john boehner told us he was going to do the cromnibus -- >> did john boehner make a deal with president obama? >> yes. i think no good ideas outside of that deal were going to be considered unless we could have succeeded on taking the rule down. and at that point we would have had a new ball game. and i think we had a chance.
but we failed by a vote to take the rule down. >> we were close. >> that's when we lost. >> all right, guys. thank you both. it's a sad day that john boehner doesn't realize there was an election, the people have spoken. and you're right, congresswoman, if this vote took place a week before the election, this never would have happened. >> never would have happened. >> that speaks volumes about politics in washington and how john boehner has disrespected the people that voted for all those republicans tonight. that's my take on it. thank you both. coming up, the architect, karl rove, he's here to weigh in on the cia's enhanced interrogation report. that and another live update as breaking news continues on capitol hill. we'll check in with rich lowry and scotty hue straight ahead. i don't care whether you have a ph.d. or an mba. everyone has questions about money. you know, i think about money kind of a lot. -money's freedom. -money's always on my mind. credit cards. -mortgage. -debt. it's complicated. it's not easy. i'm not a good budgeter. unfortunately, i'm a spender. i would love to learn more about finances. so there's questions about the world that all of us have,
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now, among the many issues and concerns discussed brennan explained that there were times when cia officers exceeded policy. but despite much debate the techniques did in fact produce useful and valuable intelligence. >> in many respects the program was uncharted territory for the cia and we were not prepared. we had little experience housing detainees and precious few other officers were trained interrogators. but the president authorized the effort six days after 9/11 and it was our job to carry it out. there was useful intelligence, very useful valuable intelligence that was obtained from individuals who had been at some point subjected to eits. whether that could have been obtained without the use of those eits is something that again is unknowable. >> here with reaction fox news military analyst lieutenant general thomas mcinerney.
general mcamericinerney, i apol to me this is outrageous because it's going to put people's lives in danger. but dianne feinstein write a report about enhanced interrogation and not a word about a drone program by obama killing thousands of innocence. do you see the irony. >> i do. dianne feinstein has normally been a very balanced senator running that committee. in this case it was a very partisan report. the points that you're making of the dichotomy of what i would call enhanced torture and the killing of -- >> enhanced torture or interrogation? >> excuse me. enhanced interrogation versus the drones killings, it is a sharp contrast. and the fact is this report is
the most dangerous report, i believe, that has ever come out of the congress to our national security. >> yeah. >> it is very, very harmful to the people that it has presidential approval, it had d.o.j. approval, the leadership of the cia was watching it very closely as john brennan just talked about. and so what is going to happen in the future to our people today in the drone wars that they're going to say six years from now they're going to come and say i committed a murder by shooting insurgents and radical islamists? it is very, very dangerous. and i believe the blood will be on her hands for this report. >> very strong words. and i agree with those words. if something happens, blood will be on her hands. mike baker, i like to use this analogy. imagine any parent that's watching this program. two kidnappers take your kids out of their house, out of your house, you run after them. you tackle one of the captors. you have that captor.
the other guy gets away with your kids. where will you stop in terms of getting information to identify where your kids have been taken? i can speak for myself. i will stop at nothing to get that information. is that a similar analogy after 3,000 americans died? >> well, i mean, it is. and a lot of people agree with you, feel the same way. we know because we've spent years and years debating the interrogation rendition program. we know there are some folks you're never going to shift from their position. either talking to a detainee or everything else is torture. as director brennan pointed out as well as previous directors and managers, they did play a role. the problem is this report, and i run a company that does complex investigations all around the world. if anybody came to me and brought me a report based on investigation and i say who did you talk to, we didn't talk to anybody.
and more so we had a finding and wrote a report around it rather than let the evidence guide you than deciding your findings, i would suspend those people and give the client their money back. that's kind of what we're dealing with here. very disappointing use of $40 million. i think it's important to have these conversations. of course it is. talk about policies and procedures. but you would like to think that, you know, we would come far enough in this whole discussion that this thing would have been objective, unbiased and they would have taken the time and done the hard work to find everybody involved from the administration, the agency, sit down. they didn't do it. >> and that's well said. 6,000 pages they never spoke to any of the key people involved in the interrogation program including cia directors tenant, michael hayden or jose rodriguez who was in the cia and oversaw this. general mcinerney, mike baker, appreciate it. meanwhile dick cheney blasted the cia -- the vice
president also set the record straight about then-president george bush's knowledge of the cia's interrogation techniques. take a look. >> i think that he knew everything he needed to know and wanted to know about the program. >> did he know the details? >> i think he knew certainly the techniques. we did discuss the techniques. there was no effort on our part to keep him from that. he was just with the tariff surveillance program. he had to personally sign off on that every 30 to 45 days. so the notion that the committee's trying to peddle somehow the agency was operating on a rogue basis and we weren't being told or the president wasn't being told is just a flat out lie. >> here with reaction former senior adviser to president george w. bush, fox news contributor karl rove. we had jose rodriguez on the program the over night. heover saw the water boarding of khalid sheikh mohammed and other instances.
he says without that technique we wouldn't have found the courier which led us to bin laden. if he was there and he saw and had the information and they don't interview him for this report, how do they possibly come to the conclusion that they did that this did not help find some of these terrorist sns. >> well, look, it clearly did. and there's plenty of evidence on the record, including president bush's own book in which he talks about on pages i believe it is 168 through 170 where he talks about the origination of this program. it begins with zubedah initially coughed up information and then he shut up. and he became uncooperative. the cia, there was a high level of chatter about follow-up attacks on the united states. the cia comes to the president and says we need to have additional authority to undertake some additional interrogation techniques, the enhances interrogation techniques. here are 13 of them. bush has them reviewed by the lawyers and approved.
and he determines he's uncomfortable with two of them and authorizes use of the other 11. he gets broken. after waterboarded he literally says you have to do this for all the brothers. we've been told not to talk. this frees me from my responsibility. you must save my other brothers by doing this. he coughed up information -- the recruiter for osama bin laden. this guy is the logistics master mind for 9/11 and the post-9/11 plotter. he's the guy in charge of figuring out what to do in follow on attacks. we get him. he initially is problematic. he's subjected to these techniques. he begins to cough up information. and the information from zubedah and -- lead us to khalid sheikh mohammed. remember he said i'll see you in new york with my lawyers. we remember how he sort of taunted america. once he broke though he led us
to the efforts in southeast asia and gave up his brother in charge of the effort to attack the west coast of the united states. and we swept up 17 members of his cell. and they were in training probably to use aircraft to attack places on the west coast. the idea that somehow or another these techniques did not -- i mean, we knew about canary war, we knew about attacks on hethrow. -- >> karl, very well said. why do you think dianne feinstein did this then? >> look, i think she's being driven -- she reminds me of the red queen in "alice in wonderland." conclude first and allegation second. left wing staffers spent $40 million and six years in a vendetta against george w. bush in order to attack the fundamentals of the cia, in
order to attack the record of the previous administration and achieve a partisan political goal. i'm sorry to see her do this. i think your previous guest was right. she's forever going to bear this as a stain on her record. >> last question about a top story tonight. why do you think john boehner went for an omnibus bill to fund the government for the entire year rather than a continuing resolution where they would have more power in the purse with the new majority both the increase majority in the house and obviously the majority in the senate? why would he do it that way? >> well, they've got two tracks. they wanted to get most of the government funded through the balance of the fiscal year. it is stupid for us to be funding a $3.5, $3.7 trillion enterprise called the federal government. he wants to return to regular order and use the leverage of funding through the end of the year to get significant concessions from the democrats. they kept a short leash on homeland security so that we can have a battle next year from the position of strength with
majorities in the house and a majority in the senate to help us -- >> but it fully funds obamacare. >> well, look, you think the united states senate is going to go along with an effort to de-fund obamacare? we can't get 60 votes in it next year -- >> now coming up, we're going to have more on tonight's breaking news out of washington. when we come backse, i'm going explain why i think john boehner needs replaced as speaker and our question of the day.
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>> i believe the president continues to act on his own. when you play with matches, you take the risk of burning yourself. and he's going to burn himself if he continues to get on this path the american people made it clear election day. they want to get things done. and they don't want the president acting on a unilateral basis. >> john boehner talking tough on the issue of amnesty but unfortunately that is all it was. conservatives feel they have been burned with aligning them self was the president to pass a spending bill just a short time ago. joining us now, scotty hughes.
john boehner bloomberg conservatives tonight and by that, i mean, conservative base in particular, and michelle bachman hit the nail on the head he never would have done this before the election. he has no inspiring vision and to me, he's a democratic party light. he doesn't have those bold difference that's reagan talked about. he should not be the speaker and should be replaced reaction? >> if on twitter now, the majority of the american as agree with you, sean. we've got issues with boehner all along. >> over two years sh he should go. >> he was with pelosi with insider trading and visa bill. he's had issues all along. this is a great opportunity, i think. >> john boehner is full of it. what do you think? >> no one else wants the job so
he's not going anywhere. one theme we've heard is that congress shouldn't pass enormous bills without knowing what is in the bill. >> out of 1603 pages they added more pages nobody has read. and what bothers me about this, it funds $2.5 billion for illegal imgrants, funded then, we've got obamacare funded through the year. he's not doing his job representing an alternative vision for the country. it seems he's cowardly and has a fear of being blamed for a shut down, no vision to inspire the country that he has an idea that is going to solve problems we face which are great at this
moment in history. >> it's amazing how democrats are praising elizabeth warren in the senate. >> listen. go elizabeth. >> she called people that wanted to shut down the government. >> let me go back to the tweet. because this is how he summed it up. it funds obamacare. and is filled with political favorites. they could have defunded obamacare and offered an alternative. they could have taken the president on with his un-constitutional, unlawful action. and shown they're tough. >> has the party been desperate to push something through if
they're going to gain power? >> they're afraid of the shut down and gave into appropriators that crafted these bills and wanted to be done with it. they could have had a vote you're getting senate democrats on record, for pushing back against the president's amnesty. now, you've created this huge skepticism. >> i expect it's john boehner trying to sabotage the republican party and boehner now, i think he's a wolf in sheep's clothing. >> when we come back, our question of the day. straight ahead.
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you think it smells fine, but your passengers smell this... eliminate odors you've gone noseblind to for up to 30 days with the febreze car vent clip. female passenger: wow. smells good in here. vo: so you and your passengers can breathe happy. time for the question of the day. did speaker boehner make a mistake by teeming up with reid? you know he never would have done this before the election. that is all you need to know. he sadly, i've got to say that he represents everything that is wrong with washington.
PresidentVice-presidentLiberal-democratsFilePackageNancy-pelosiFavorCompromise-billBottom-linePoliticsElizabeth-warren-on-the-other-sideSeanfootsteps trying to follow your lead for how to extract information from this man. >> we have double-teamed him, as has the world on this question of where did you get the information? and what strikes me as so interesting today, no reporters have caught up with that. there's no report in the "new york times," "the washington journal," "the washington post," no one has figured out where michael avenatti got all this banking information about michael cohen. >> and we've got little pieces of it and prospects of little piece of it. we have news organizations, including nbc news saying they too have seen financial documents that corroborate what michael avenatti reported p p we have these big companies corroborating what he reported saying yeah we paid that money to michael cohen. now we have the treasury inspector general reportedly investigating to find out if somebody released suspicious
reports from the banking sector and if that's the way he got this information. if that's the way he got it, and the news organizations got it, it might be a legal problem for whoever leaked that information in the first place. i got to think we'll figure it out, but not before we get more revelations about what michael cohen does for a living. >> i think michael cohen's lawyers might force michael avenatti to tell us, that's what they were asking for in court today. i was very pleased to see my math checkout because i had done this calculation about an hour before michael avenatti did it on your show where he pointed out that the amount of -- the amounts that are in dispute in his reporting are $20,000 out of what he said was 3.5 million. he said that was 99.3% accurate. there's actually 4.5 million in
the total flow we know about now. so that makes michael avenatti's number 99.6% accurate, which i had figured out all on my own before michael avenatti said that. >> it is an -- i mean, tactically it's an interesting thing to take a document that's been substantially admitted to, at&t and the company associated with the russian oligarch, saying yeah that's all true. so it's a tactically interesting move to say the part of it we have issue with is the $700 that went through the kenyan bank account. tactically it's interesting. that will be the way the right and maybe cohen's lawyers in court seize on this document trying to discredit it. and it makes me all the more curious as to where the information came from. because clearly some of the information is definitely true
and it m seems like some of it might not be true. it's weird to get a mixed bag of half true and half untrue information or 99% true and 1% untrue information. >> michael avenatti is clearly driving michael cohen's lawyers crazy because they rushed into court today with this document which basically said he's more than 99% right but we're really, really angry -- we're really angry about this less than 1% he got wrong and he should be slapped on the wrist for that and forced to reveal where he got that. that's an understandable pleading. i can understand legally why they made that pleading, but they ran the risk, which they did, of completely confirming all of the big transactions in the bank records. >> and making that document and those allegations about michael cohen's business life part of that case. the only reason a document released by michael avenatti
would end up in that case is because michael cohen's lawyers made it that way. the only hook they have have to go after avenatti with the judge is that avenatti sought at one point to join that case. he did not join that case. he's not associated with the case, he's not a party in the matter. yet they're asking the judge to reach out beyond the inl of the case to go after him on this. all they're doing is succeeding in moving these damning allegations into the center. >> these are the things when you talk to michael avenatti the errors that he forces them to make. that's what that pleading in federal court in new york looks like to me. >> he's a sure footed man. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thanks, rachel. it's like every day since
michael avenatti entered his life, a crazy day for michael cohen. >> mr. cohen -- >> how are you doing today? >> doing great. thank you. >> my comment about michael avenatti? in response? any response to avenatti? >> his document is inaccurate. >> how do you feel about you may have changed an election? >> people who've known michael cohen a long time tell me this is what he's always wanted. to be a celebrity. a celebrity in sunglasses surrounded by the paparazzi. that's why he wanted to be in trump world. he wanted to be at least near a celebrity, donald trump. that's what people who knew him before he knew donald trump tell me about michael cohen. and so, the good news for michael cohen, is finally
paparazzi are gathered outside his door. so he loves that part. that's why he walks you out of the hotel and says good morning to the awaiting cameras and when asked how is he, i'm great, as if he's a movie star on the oscar's red carpet. and for that second, michael cohen is standing on the tip of the highest peak he's ever been on in his life. way up there in the thinner air of his very own celebrity. and then, in the next second he's brought crashing back down to earth by the two words that have made him such a celebrity, michael avenatti. any comment about michael avenatti? any response? and michael cohen, coming as close as he can to speaking grammatically correct english
says, his documents is inaccurate. and for once michael cohen is right. the documents that stormy daniels' lawyer, michael avenatti presented to us on this program last night showing $4.5 milli $4.5 million going into and out of the llc that michael cohen created in order to pay stormy daniels $130,000 to keep her quiet, those documents contain some minor inaccuracies that michael cohen has been owning up to as soon as they were discovered. sitting here last night michael avenatti described $4,425,033.46 that flowed through essential consultants l.l.c. and michael cohen's bank accounts. the flow of that money contains possible inaccuracies about four
transactions, amounting to $20,583. so that makes michael avenatti's document 99.6% accurate. one of the inaccuracies in michael avenatti's document was a wire transfer from kenya to michael cohen for $980, but it was not michael cohen, the man who has said he would take a bullet for donald trump. it was a 26--year-old israeli named michael cohen, who told nbc news, i am an aveonic technician in ll airlines. the 26-year-old michael cohen said he had no idea how the mixup could have occurred but he's been getting lots of attention. my whole family was surprised. friends called me, it was a crazy day. it was a crazy day because of
michael avenatti's 99.6% accuracy of the flows into the accounts of the man who has always called him donald trump's fixer. last night michael avenatti told us there were possibly more payments than he discovered and today that was proven true. michael cohen showed a farm -- pharmaceutical company. the company or michael cohen seemed intent on recording on something less than $100,000 a month. each payment was $99,980. all the companies involved with michael cohen are now offering explanations of why they funneled massive amounts of money to with a man with no no skilled, a man who couldn't even
successfully execute a pay to a porn star to stay quiet about the most embarrassing sex of her semi-public sex life. the corporate payments to michael cohen are the very definition of filling the swamp with money. the washington influence swamp that donald trump lied about to his voters when he promised to drain that swamp. at mntt paid michael cohen $50,000 at the beginning of the presidency in the hope that michael would convince the president to support at&t's merger with time warner. at&t failed to get support for the merger. but who knows what else they got with their michael cohen money
with regard to the myriad of regulations that affect their business. novartis tried to blame their former ceo last night but we learned much more about the novartis deal today. michael cohen reached out after the election and promised access to the new administration. novartis said they paid michael cohen $100,000 a month for advice on u.s. health care policy matters. and according to sources at the company, novartis had exactly one meeting with michael cohen three months into the deal. and by the end of that meeting, they realized they were wasting their money. one un-named employee said, quote, they decided not to really engage cohen for any activities after that. the employee continued. rather than attempt to cancel the contract, the company
allowed it to lapse early in 2018 and not run the risk of ticking off the president. it might have caused anger, this person said. if they cancelled that contract when they discovered that president trump's friend, michael cohen, was absolutely useless to them. new reporting in "the washington post" tonight quotes michael cohen as saying, i'm crushing it when all the money was pouring in. and now it is apparently crushing him. "the washington post" reports as he's facing mounting legal bills michael cohen refinanced his park avenue condominium in recent days. everyone tried to get the answer to my first question to michael avenatti last night which is how did he get this information about money flowing to and from michael cohen?
no reporters have figured it it out. but michael cohen's lawyers may have figured it out. in a letter to the judge in considering how to handle michael cohen's case, they said that, quote, michael avenatti appears to be in possession of some information from mr. cohen's actual bank records. he should be required to explain to this court how he came to possess and release this information. and we're going to be right back with more discussion of this with our panel. riends. and we got to know the friends of our friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer.
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he was hired for one reason and one reason only, and that was he was selling access to the highest office in the land. at best that's what he was doing. at best. and ultimately, robert mueller or myself or someone else will get to the bottom of exactly what he was selling, and perhaps more importantly, rachel, where did all of this money go? >> that was michael avenatti talking about michael cohen with rachel in the last hour. we're joined now by ron klain, former chief of staff and a former senior aid. barbara mcquade, former federal prosecutor, and deanna fill la pain co, a form investigator.
ron klain, the speculation continues of where michael avenatti got this information. there's one expert quoted in one report saying that this is the kind of information that could be obtained from one of those suspicious activity reports or from a series of suspicious activity reports about bank transactions but so far it's michael avenatti leading the way on this. >> it is. and, you know, he will, i imagine that judge wood will order him to disclose the source of this information and he'll have to do so. if indeed it did come from an illegally disclosed sar, the person who disclosed it will be in trouble. as you said earlier the fundamental point from the broader perspective here is the information he put forward turned out to be 99.6% accurate. who could have imagined just a few days ago that the single least slimy transaction would be paying a former adult star
$130,000 to be quiet about her affair with the president. what is piling up is a powerful tale of corruption and undisclosed payments. where they came from, particularly the payments from the russian oligarch, are troubling and there's a lot more to come out about that. >> the explanations from the companies about why they spent money with michael cohen vary in, i guess, laughability in a way. so the company backed by the russian oligarch is claiming that there's no russian influence whatsoever here. there's no reason to claim that. and then the reasons they give for paying michael cohen have absolutely nothing to do with anything michael cohen has ever done in business. >> absolutely. i mean, the statement that we've had from columbus nova is that these were payments made for
investment advice. this is not consistent with what michael cohen has been engaged with. when we pair the statement from columbus nova with the other companies we see there's great inconsistency in what they're saying the services were from michael cohen. this raises a red flag in my mind because if you're typically a bona fide company if michael cohen was providing consulting or lobbying advice you would expect to have consistent services you're offering. here we have an array of different clients that are, you know, providing different reasons for why they engaged his consulting and advice. >> barbara mcquade, i'm particularly struck by the way the story has unfolded with novartis. first of all last night we all heard the statement they issued saying this deal was done under the ceo who no longer works here, disowning it as much as
they could. today it was revealed after three months of paying michael cohen $100,000 a month, there was no business reason to do so but they were afraid to stop paying him because they were afraid of the reaction of the president of the united states. so they went on to pay michael cohen an additional $900,000 because they were afraid, in effect, of retribution from the president of the united states. zb zb >> yeah, some red flags here. first the shifting stories. they issued a couple of statements. and then the fear of retribution. it may be something they assumed themselves without any warnings from someone else. so i want to be careful not to make allegations at this stage. but as a prosecutor investigating this, is this some sort of pay to play scheme? in some of the cases my former
office investigated against a big city mayor, the mayor was surrounded by all kind of consultants and you had to pay the consultants in you wanted access to the mayor and consideration of your business being done in the city. so there's some concern maybe that's what's going on here. it's bribery if it's aufroffered it can be extortion if it's demanded. that's certainly something i would think robert mueller might want to look at. or the public corruption unit at the southern district of new york, which is assigned to this case. >> perhaps the most ridiculous reason for paying michael cohen, the winner of that goes to at&t, and part of the reason they released publically was, it was to pay for an understanding of the inner workings of trump, his thought process, how he likes to operate, how he likes to make
decisions, how he process information. ron klain, i guess they never watched "the apprentice" and read a world available in the press about donald trump. they were paying michael cohen $50,000 a month for a look inside the mind of donald trump. and six months into paying that, this book came out, from michael wolff, 30 bucks could have saved that half, at least, of the $600,000, they pay to michael cohen. >> as the old joke goes the inner workings of the mind of donald trump would be the shortest book ever written. i don't think they needed to pay $50,000 a month for that. i think that raises a lot of questions. i think the payments from the kore korean aerospace company raise questions as does novartis.
the most troubling is the russian oligarch, we don't know whatever advice was being sought there. and it's against the story of various russian efforts throughout 2016 to work with the trump campaign to try to influence our election. that's the one thing here, lawrence, all the red flags is the reddest of the red flags. >> dionna your reaction to that? >> absolutely. i think what's also interesting with the payment made by the vekselberg company, is there was a contribution to the trump inaugural committee, $250,000 paid, so this fits the trend we're seeing. the company put out a statement it's owned by americans, it's an american based company. we have to ask who's exerting the ultimate control over the company and directing the
actions being made. we have information that they've been very influential in the actions of columbus nova. so the pattern of seeing the vekselberg entity made to trump before, it raises questions what they intend for this particular payment was. >> barbara mcquade, michael avenatti keeps saying -- the recurring chorus from him is he wants the suspicious activity reports on michael cohen released, he believes they should be made public now. can they be made public now is one question, but the other part is, what is it that michael avenatti believes? it's as if he knows something in there, and something in there will create a new round for this story? >> first of all, i don't think they can be released p p they're private documents, law enforcement sensitive. these are documents the banks
file with the law when they view something in a bank account and they can be viewed by law enforcement. i don't think they can be released by the treasure department or michael cohen, i don't think he has access to them. why is michael avenatti pushing to have those suspicious activity reports released? i don't know. i wonder if there isn't additional information in them or he is bluffing knowing no one will release them and he can point to this is more effort to cover up what's going on here. i don't know what his end game is. i imagine he's trying to put pressure on president trump to resolve his lawsuit with stormy daniels. but i do worry that all of these things in the public domain could be harming robert mueller's investigation. he is no doubt several steps ahead of all of us but this could be tipping off people causing them to tamper with
witnesses or evidence. >> thank you all for joining this discussion. really appreciate it. coming up the latest michael cohen scandal is now moving in more interesting directions every day. but i've got an idea. get domo. it'll connect us to everything that's going on in the company. get it for jean who's always cold. for the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. give us the data we need. in one place, anywhere we need it. help us do our jobs better. with domo we can run this place together. well that's that's your job i guess. ♪ ♪ better than all the rest ♪ applebee's new bigger bolder grill combos. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.
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thousands of lobbyists outside of the trump government profiting from the trump swamp, including huge profit tiers like michael cohen, who never registered as a lobbyist but was in effect being paid as a lobbyist of some sort. when fired trump campaign manager corey lewandowski set up the lobbying shop in washington his partner said they had more clients than they could handle and they had to turn some away. and president trump is creating new openings for lobbyists, like threatening tariffs that lobbyist then try to get exemptions from for companies and countries. and the same thing is happening with president trump threatening to impose sanctions on companies doing business with iran. that means hundreds of millions of dollars of lobby fees will be
paid. in a new report from "the washington journal," michael cohen helped a law firm recruit a corporate client with ties to jared kushner's family company. among five companies michael cohen delivered before the firm terminated the contract with him was u.s. immigration fund llc, which last year organized a trip to china for several kushner officials, including his sister to seek investors for commercial and residential towers in jersey city, new jersey in exchange for residency visas shathat would aw the chinese investors into the united states. joining us now is david frum and
matt miller. david frum, the michael cohen saga is but one window into what has truly become an unprecedented size swamp that the trump swamp now is. >> the question i think you have been asking the past half hour and that rachel was asking for the last hour before that, is a variant of an episode from the old sew soprano show. the thing that got you into the most trouble was not kicking up, you got the fat envelope full of cash, you took your piece of it, and then delivered the thicker envelope to the next ranking person in the organization. that's the thing everyone is struggling with. donald trump hates people making money off him without sharing. michael cohen made a lot of money very fast, did he kick up?
>> and that's exactly what michael avenatti has been suggesting in our discussions. matt miller here's a president who creates opportunities for lobbyists unlike anything we have ever seen, even when he apparently randomly decides to attack a company on twitter for whatever its legal business is on the united states. what happens for the lobbying bills for that company the day the president launches a twitter attack on that company? >> if you look at his influx of business you have to look at what was happening in the transition. the president was attacking companies and every time that happened, all of these companies were scrambling trying to figure out what to do in response and every major company in america was trying to figure out what to do to head that off. in the middle of that, michael cohen comes cold calling ceos and offers what is potentially a
protection racquet. i will introduce you to people in the trump world. there's the old-time influence peddling, trying to make introductions, and then there's the new era of the trump world, you have a president out bullying companies in public and someone offering, to use the w analogy, if you want these attacks to go away, hire me. >> let's listen to what eric swalwell told ari melber today. >> any tree that you shake in this trump forest, a russia falls out. the president is in a position where he and his lawyer are deceiving the american people. and a president who lies is a president who is weak. >> david frum here we see in the michael avenatti massive flows
of money, of course, standing behind one big pot is a russian oligarch. >> right. and we have discovered that beginning in about 2006, the trump organization suddenly seemed to have a lot of catch to spend but spent it in weirdly unwise ways, on money-losing golf courses. there's the question of where do these flows of very large money into the trump organization come from? we shake the tree and we think we know the answer. >> matt miller in terms of what we're seeing michael avenatti unearth every other week it seems there's something kind of extraordinary coming from him, who's feeding off who here? is avenatti working off of what appear to be fruits of federal investigations or is he feeding the federal investigations? >> i think it's probably a
little bit of both. we know he's been cooperating with the investigation in the southern district of new york looking into potential company finance violations, he said that publically. but it does appear the release he made yesterday was probably the result of an internal federal investigation i would suspect from the treasury department, possibly leaked from the justice department but most likely leaked from the treasury department. it does lead you to ask the question, are other people coming forward? there are whistle blowers in the private or public sector who might look at michael cohen now as someone out taking on the president and saying this is someone i can bring information to, he'll take it public, he's not afraid to back down, but he's someone i can share damning information and make sure it gets in the right hand. >> one thing i learned about michael avenatti is he always knows more than what he tells us in any given round.
you can feel it when he's sitting here and talking to you. last night he was very clear about having information about where the money went. last night's discussion and today's discussion with him has been the money that has come in to michael cohen. he seems to know something about where the money went and he has in effect promised that's the next chapter of this story for him. >> i've been woring for a long time, worrying and hoping, the united states government is in the grip of an auto immune disorder. all through the government there are people seeing things that are not appropriate for the president of the united states to do, worse than not appropriate. and what do they do about that? well, many of them, as we've been suggesting here, they are doing things that aren't appropriate for them because the system is reacting to this alien intrusion of something it's never seen before. and it's shedding information in directions where it thinks it can do some good for self-protected purposes. there are enduring systematic
ethical and institutional questions. how do you carry on the government if people develop these habits of leaking in order to protect the country from leaders they see as improper. >> matt miller, as i say, it does sound like the next chapter for michael avenatti is where that money went and he is strongly suggesting it didn't all go to michael cohen. >> whoever provided him the information about michael cohen's bank accounts clearly was able to see what money was coming into the bank account, there's no reason to think they wouldn't be able to see where that money was going to when it left his bank account, whether it was going to finance his other businesses or to someone else in the trump organization, the trump world, maybe trump himself. there's no reason to think the person that leaked that doesn't
have that knowledge. >> thank you both. next, donald trump's pick for cia director contradicted donald trump in her senate confirmation hearing. that's next. coppertone sport.
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as far as i'm concerned you can go a lot stronger than water boarding. than you like. don't tell me it doesn't work. torture works. only a stupid person would say it doesn't work. it works. here's the president's nominee to be the next director of the cia, gina haspel at her hearing today. >> the president has asserted that torture works. do you agree with that statement? >> senator, i -- i don't believe that torture works. i believe that in the cia's program, and i'm not attributing this to enhanced interrogation techniques. i believe as many people, directors who have sat in this chair before me that valuable information was obtained from senior al queda operatives that alloweds to defend this country and present another attack. >> is that a yes? >> no, it's not a yes. we got valuable information from debriefing of al queda
detainees. i don't think it's knowable whether interrogation techniques played a role in that. >> and then the question that ended up deciding senator john mccain's position on gina haspel. >> do you believe the previous interrogation techniques were immoral? >> senator, i believe that cia officers to whom you referred -- >> it's a yes or no answer. do you believe the previous interrogation techniques were immoral? i'm not asking do you believe they were legal. i'm asking do you believe they were immoral? >> senator, i believe that cia -- >> it's a yes or no -- >> -- did extraordinary work to prevent another attack on the country given the legal tools -- >> please answer yes or no.
do you believe, in hindsight, those techniques were immoral. >> what i believe sitting here today, is i support the higher moral standard we have decided to hold ourselves to. >> can you please answer the question. >> i believe i have answered the question. >> no, you have not. do you believe the techniques -- now armed with hindsight, do you believe they were immoral? yes or no? >> senator, i believe we should hold ourselves to the moral standard outlined in the army field manual. >> you've not answered the question, but i'm going to move on. >> senator john mccain was watching at home. that was all he had to hear to decide his position on this confirmation. gene robinson and nick christophe join us with that next. makes the complex simple... (high-pitched whir) ...giving you super hero levels of confidence.
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what does she do if the president orders her to do it. she said she would not restart under any circumstances. so i don't know if that means resign. i don't know what that means. >> unfortunately she was also very evasive. she didn't really renounce it. boy, i so much would like to support gina haspel for this job. i think she's very smart. the folks at cia strongly support her. women there would love to have a woman director of central intelligence. but how can you support somebody who not only oversaw torture, but refuses to renounce it now, refuses to renounce the fact that she destroyed these videotapes as an investigation was approaching. and i guess i also worry, lawrence, that a little bit about whether she's sort of a stalking course for mike pompeo. to the extent that she doesn't have a lot of independent connections on the hill, for example. mike pompeo supports her.
and i guess i worry that if he's at state and has a protege at langley, that there is some risk that he could get intelligence to support his policy decisions, which i think is another major concern to have. >> senator john mccain watching at home on television issued this statement at the hearing. ms. haspel's role overseeing torture by americans is disturbing. her refusal to acknowledge torture's immorality is disqualifying. i believe the senate should exercise its duty of advise and consent and reject this nomination. >> that's right.
i'm with john mccain on the subject. john mccain, being one of the few americans who has experienced torture, he knows that water boarding is torture. he knows other things done to the detainees constituted torture. nothing i heard today changed my mind. it was a very -- that period in the vcia, it's a broad national consensus in 2002 and 2003 that we should take prisoners to terrorism suspects to secret prisons in foreign lands and torture them. i was never asked about that. you were never asked about that. and yet this revisionism maintains that somehow we all agree that that was okay for them. it was okay. it was illegal then, it was immoral then.
and while i grant that you can't disqualify the sfwier cia for its participation, in fact, there was not a unanimous view inside the cia. and certainly it was opposed by many in the fbi by virtually all in the pentagon who thought that was crazy. this was terrible. and someone who participated in the deinstruction of the evidence of that crime, which shows consciousness of guilt, i think she's disqualified. >> nick, one of the extraordinary moments for me listening to her testimony this morning was she was asked on the destruction of the videos of the torture, she was asked why -- the idea was to protect the identities of the agents involved. she was then asked, why not just digitize the face of the agents so there would never be any issue about who was involved in the torture. and then the video could be
preserved, which most of the authorities who spoke about the preservation of this video wanted it preserved, even when it was destroyed. her answer to the question of why not just digitize the face was, i'm not a technical person, i don't know that works. now, we think of the cia director as knowing an awful more about an awful lot of levels of sophistication. a cia director who doesn't know if you can digitize a face was a real stunning moment to me. >> as you suggest, it was an enormously implausible answer. it seems completely implausible. it does injustice to her. she's a smart, savvy person. clearly she knew there were other avenue ps .this is the kind of thing that people do
when they go on the hill and can't tell the truth. and so they dissemiable. and she dissembled today. and she may well end up as director of the cia. looks like she may end up with the votes. >> the goodwill she does seem to have with democrats comes from the obama administration apparently relying on her and welcoming her into their deliberations. i think the problem is her very public, and i think shameful role in the torture program. >> thank you for joining us. we'll be right back. (vo) what if this didn't have to happen? i didn't see it. (vo) what if we could go back?
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>> nancy pelosi and other dems are slamming the wall street journal article on biden's mental acuitg thy, calling it at piece. president biden, though, is refusin.g to comment because he thinks he's an avocado. the prosecution and biden's gun trial told the judge they have six more witnesses to go. and here's a surprise. s only five of them are strippes . >> msnbc's chris matthews. said it's very reasonable to assume that trump becomeelece a dictator if elected. i thind.k i for millionsican of americans when i say chris matthews is alive. texas will pay a group of female deputies e $1.5 millii to settle a lawsuit claiming that they were harassedes $ se. by their bosses. they would have gotten more, but the judge said they weren't hot enough t more. enou
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PressureInflationFiguresChoicesSetUnionsPainfulLevelPupil-numbersPopulationSchoolsNorthern-englandquick break and then disa array in congress as republican house speaker mike johnson is accused of not holding his ground on border security, failing to rein in all of the reckless spending. >> as i see it now, i'm not so sure there's a difference between mike johnson being in charge and the democrats being in charge. the debt, the deficit this year will be $1.5-2 trillion, and and that's mike johnson's bill. he put it forward, he supported it with a minority of republicans, with a majority of democrats. this is not using the power of the purse, this is abdicating the power of the purse. maria: that is senator rand paul with me last weekend. up next, georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor green with her reaction. stay with us.in ♪ g chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat.
Mike-johnsonRepublicansUnited-states-congressAllHouse-speakerBorder-securityBreakGroundSpendingArrayDifferenceDemocratsquick break and then disa array in congress as republican house speaker mike johnson is accused of not holding his ground on border security, failing to rein in all of the reckless spending. >> as i see it now, i'm not so sure there's a difference between mike johnson being in charge and the democrats being in charge. the debt, the deficit this year will be $1.5-2 trillion, and and that's mike johnson's bill. he put it forward, he supported it with a minority of republicans, with a majority of democrats. this is not using the power of the purse, this is abdicating the power of the purse. maria: that is senator rand paul with me last weekend. up next, georgia congresswoman marjorie taylor green with her reaction. stay with us here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. they need their lawn back fast and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass.
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