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You know, kind of bitter end democrats who would rather destroy the country than see the republicans have any political victory. you certainly didnt see that with bush. and the idea, you know, genuine independence like persuadables as opposed to people who say they are independents but have strong ideological leaning, but its a small and disengaged part of the population. its not as if theyre the kind of reasonable ones and everybody else is -- >> i just dont think -- i think the other thing to ...