>> what many of our students need more than anything else is hope. a lot of times, they walk through our doors, they don't have that. >> ifill: those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: president obama moved today to tamp down talk of imminent military action against islamic state fighters in syria. at the white house, he said his priority is to "roll back" the militants' gain in iraq, where u.s. air strikes are already under way. he said calls to expand the campaign into syria amount to "putting the cart before the horse." >> we don't have a strategy yet. i think what i've seen in some of the news reports suggests that folks are getting a lilt further ahead than we currently are. but there's no point in me asking for action on the part of congress before i know exactly what it is that is going to be required for us to get the job done. >> ifill: separately, there was word that islamic state fighters executed more than 150 soldiers captured in recent fighting. the troops were taken prisoner after militants seized a key airbase in northeastern syria. a video posted on youtube showed a long line of bodies lying face down in the sand. gunmen on the syrian side of the golan heights have detained 43 u.n. peacekeepers from fiji. u.n. officials say it happened during fighting between an unidentified armed group and syrian troops. another 81 peacekeepers-- from the philippines-- were trapped. afterward, u.n. troops kept a close watch on the syrian side of the heights. their mission is to monitor a zone of separation between syrian and israeli forces. j.p. morgan-chase bank has confirmed it's investigating a possible cyber attack, but it says the scope is unclear. "bloomberg news" reported it's part of a series of coordinated and sophisticated attacks by russian hackers. and, "the new york times" reported at least four other banks were also targeted in the last month. the stolen data includes checking and savings account information. a family feud over control of a supermarket chain in new england is finally over. the disagreement, which began in june, spawned worker and customer boycotts that attracted national attention. now, arthur t. demoulas will buy the majority stake in the chain from his cousin for $1.5 billion. he celebrated with employees today in tewksbury, massachusetts. the battle for control ultimately cost the grocery chain millions of dollars in lost revenue. on wall street today, stocks edged lower after the latest spark in the ukraine crisis. the dow jones industrial average lost 42 points to close at 17,079. the nasdaq slipped nearly 12 points to close at 4,557. and the s&p 500 dropped three points to 1,996. the national football league is getting tougher on domestic violence. commissioner roger goodell announced today players will be suspended for six games for a first offense. they'll be banned outright if it happens a second time. goodell was criticized when he suspended the baltimore ravens' ray rice for just two weeks for allegedly hitting his fianceée. today, he acknowledged he "didn't get it right." still to come on the newshour: russian troops advance into ukraine, speeding up human trials of a new ebola vaccine, providing for unaccompanied child migrants, reinventing chicago's community colleges, and, the creative process behind designing bold and iconic book covers. >> ifill: the crisis in ukraine intensified today as the government in kiev accused russia of an outright invasion. hari sreenivasan reports. >> we can confirm that russian military boots are on ukrainian ground. >> sreenivasan: the cries of invasion came from ukraine's prime minister arseniy yatseniuk and from president petro poroshenko, who announced, "russian forces have entered ukraine." >> ( translated ): amateur mercenaries along with employed russian servicemen are trying to organize a counter-offensive against positions of our armed forces. without any doubts, the situation is extraordinarily difficult, but it is controllable. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainians charged russian soldiers and armor are helping rebels open a new front in the southeast. kiev confirmed the rebels have captured the town of novoazovsk on the azov sea-- leaving the port city of mariupol suddenly vulnerable to attack. ukraine's government said images from novoazovsk showed a russian tank on the streets. and nato released its own satellite images, showing russian self-propelled artillery units on ukrainian roads. the alliance said well over 1,000 russian troops have crossed the border-- and warned of more to come. >> these latest imagery provides concrete examples of russian activity inside ukraine, but they are only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the overall scope of russian troop and weapons movements. >> sreenivasan: earlier this week, ukraine had released a video showing what it said were russian servicemen captured on its territory. and today, the rebel "prime minister" acknowledged several thousand russians are fighting with the rebels on their own time. >> ( translated ): among volunteers from russia there have always been many retired military servicemen. there are also currently serving soldiers among us who preferred to spend their vacations not on sea beaches, but among us, among brothers fighting for their freedom. >> sreenivasan: the spike in tensions prompted angry words at the u.n. security council. u.s. ambassador samantha power blasted previous russian denials of complicity. >> at every step, russia has come before this council to say everything except the truth. it has manipulated, it has obfuscated, it has outright lied. so we have learned to measure russia by its actions and not by its words. >> sreenivasan: in turn, russian ambassador vitaly churkin dismissed the accusations, without directly denying anything. >> ( translated ): everyone knows that there are russian volunteers in eastern parts of ukraine, no one is hiding that. we'd like to see similar transparency shown by other countries. i would suggest that we send a message to washington. stop interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign states. stop trying to undermine a regime that you don't like-- >> we are not taking military action to solve the ukrainian problem. what we're doing is to mobilize the international community to apply pressure on russia. but i think it is very important to recognize that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming. >> brown: the president argued pressure from existing and possibly new sanctions will take an increasing toll on russia even if it's not apparent now. for more on what's happening on the ground in ukraine, joined by andrew kramer from the "new york times" from donetsk. you were visiting a town where the russian troops were streaming in. describe that scene to us. >> this is in a down o town on . we were standing on the outside of the town speaking with ukrainian soldiers retreating. the soldiers were convinced they were fighting the russians, at least many were. we didn't see the troops coming in, but they were said to have come across the border from russia into ukraine. it was a very chaotic scene. in fact, a day later, that town was seize bid the pro-russian forces. >> brown: you also spoke of locals in the area. what did they think about what's happening. >> people who support the russian cause are cheered by the development. the revolution had been on its last legs in the last few weeks and now there's been a reversal of the fortunes, a turning of the tide here. the separatists and, according to ukrainian government, with the support of russia has moved across the russian border and has now opened a new front in the south along the seashore with the cities onovasosk and mario pal as the objectives. the intention is to form a defensive triangle out of the two cities in donetsk and force the ukrainian government into settlement talks on more favorable terms. >> sreenivasan: you're in donetsk now. what's the impact there on what's happening in the other towns? >> in donetsk, little has changed. an artillery barrage killed two today, hitting residential areas. the ukrainian government is keeping up pressure on donetsk. the assumption is forces will be diverted from here to the south to address this new risk and new push by pro russian and possibly with the support of russian supporters coming in across the border. that's the hope of the separatists in this town. it's a setback for the ukrainians who hope to end the war quickly and on their terms. >> sreenivasan: can you feel a level of intention increasing or decreasing from the events in the past weeks? >> the tension is certainly increasing particularly in the towns and villages affected. we drove along a 75-mile stretch of highway from here in donetsk to the area where the battle is taking place and it was almost wholly deserted. you would see only a few cars carrying refugees, burned-out military vehicles and people who were very concerned, obviously, about this new development and the violence which is coming to their communities. >> sreenivasan: is there a cognition of what's happening and how the rest of the world is paying attention? do the people in ukraine, the ones that you speak with, care about what's happening at n.a.t.o. or whether this is called an invasion or incursion? >> people in the areas that have been shelled are mostly concerned about everyday concerns like fetching water and food and staying out of the way of danger. there is certainly, among the rebels, a larger understanding of the context of this war and this conflict. ukraine has now said -- the president of ukraine has said today that russia invaded, n.a.t.o. was more cautious saying russia had carried out an incursion into ukraine. in any case, what's clearly happening here is across border military action in europe and the consequences are very unpredictable. >> sreenivasan: andrew kramer from "new york times" joining us from donetsk. thanks so much. >> thank you. >> brown: i'm joint by andrew weiss, a director of russian ukrainian and eurasian affairs at the white house national security council and now with the carnegie endowment andrei tegoncof and, a political science and international relations professor at san francisco state university. andrew weiss, how do you describe what's going on and who are the russian soldiers? >> i think the russians are disguising their moments so we may have a new front on the southeastern border between russia and ukraine and a russian attempt to create a land bridge between the russian border and crimea, which will allow them to supply crimea more effectively in the future. >> brown: do you use the word invasion, incursion? >> there's a game played in washington where u.s. officials are trying hard not to use the word invasion so you have the state department spokesman saying it's an incursion. the reason for that is u.s. officials, as president obama said today, said they're trying to avoid any perception there's oust military response in the offing so they're downplaying what's happened, but privately people are worried what we're seeing is a dramatic escalation. >> brown: andrei tegoncof, what do you call it? >> i would call it an escalation as andrew weiss described the second front opening and this is something that's been going on quite some time. we have seen the russia assistance before and this is not news. what's new is the ukrainian side is beginning to lose on the front and the russian president has not gotten what he expected to get and germany is pressuring kiev for peaceful solutions. in addition to russia's escalation, ukraine, kiev is launching a p.r. offense against russia. >> brown: you're seeing this as coming from weakness by the ukrainians as opposed to more aggression by the russians? >> i see both, but russia's intervention is not something that has happened just now. russia has been assisting the eastern rebels before. russian volunteers, we know previous commanders of donetsk and luhansk and primarily donetsk were russian citizens. so russia was certainly involved and makes sense, if russia sees itself as a great power to be involved, so it has been taking place quite some time. this was a new speech. we also see that ukraine is trying to launch a p.r. offensive against russia. >> brown: andrew weiss, ukraine has had a stronger military in many ways which would counteract what weiss is saying. >> it looked like the separatists were cornered into strong holds in donetsk and luhansk, and the question is putin cornered? and putin talks about chasing rats in a building he grew up in and he cornered the rat and discovered the rat will attack. patton at various terms in the crisis has chosen to escalate and he's done that once again. >> brown: so you're seeing this differently from the description we've heard. this is russia reacting? >> i don't think putin is to mount a full scale invasion of ukraine but we're seeing they're not willing to lose and when it looks like the ukrainians are poised to do too much too quickly the russians raise the stakes and that's where we are today. >> brown: andrei tegoncof, what's your response? go ahead. >> i don't disagree. i think russia is raising the stakes. remember russia is raising the stakes in response to the ukrainians raising the stakes. ukrainians have anti-terrorist stipulations, searching for a military solution to the conflict, and the russians will see this as a need to restore balance of power. for them, this is a necessity to negotiate better i political conditions for their interests and values. they have major interests for ukraine wants to be a member of n.a.t.o. and join the european union. they have interests to protect russian language speakers there, those who gravitate toward russia, and this is something that they will be willing to defend if necessary by military means. >> brown: andrew weiss, just before we started, you heard word of a new pronouncement or a news announcement, was it, from putin? >> what seems to be happening is andrew kramer from the "new york times" talked about is this russian incursion into ukraine has caused disruption and soldiers are evacuating in a pall mall environment. the russian putin issued a statement 1:00 a.m. moscow time calling on the rebels not to kill the ukrainian soldiers who are now encircled. he said, open a humanitarian corridor. these people are forced to fight, let them go home to their families. it's not clear what's going on on the ground if there is a significant risk that ukrainian forces are going to be ground up by the new russian forces introduce. but it's striking putin is sending out commands via press release, suggesting the situation is very messy and uncontrolled. >> brown: can you comment on that and the sense of whether russias and mr. putin are feeling any impact of the american sanctions so far, whether the pressure from the west is having any impact? >> let me make one observation about the situation in ukraine. certainly russians who are assisting the rebels and the rebels were losing until recently, but a week ago they began a counteroffensive and that's what's happening today. thousands of ukrainian troops are encircled. that's not sufficiently reported in western media but is something that helps putin to negotiate better conditions. this is one of the reasons why he felt so confident in minsk and one of the reasons he did not feel he would need to negotiate poroshenko because poroshenko already nose the conditions and the ball in many ways is in his court. russia can wait until the fall and possibly winter whether it will also be able to use energy weapons and in the meantime the solution is only a political one. this is something, russia recognizes this, the european union, angela merkel, barack obama recognizes this. so it's essential to move in this direction. >> brown: andrew weiss andrei tegoncof and, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> ifill: there were new numbers and a bleak projection today on the ebola outbreak in west africa. at the same time, it appears human trials will begin for a possible vaccine as soon as next week. the ominous forecast came from the world health organization: ebola cases could top 20,000 as the outbreak continues to spread. >> it is now, as you know, really a multinational effort, three countries, heavily affected, not just remote isolated areas where you can rapidly contain, but we are dealing with this disease in large, urban environments and over large geographic areas. this is very unique. >> ifill: so far, the u.n. agency has confirmed more than 3,000 cases. of that number, more than half have died-- in liberia, sierra leone, guinea and nigeria. but the w.h.o says the outbreak could spread to ten other countries. to contain the virus, the agency announced a $490 million strategic plan for the next nine months. >> when we look at the numbers of people to make this work, we are going to need 750 internationals at least and 12,000 nationals, not in capital that is very difficult in the current environment, but that is the scale of manpower needed to do this. >> ifill: the "current environment" includes a sizeable fear factor, especially in liberia, the country with the most ebola cases and deaths. doctors without borders opened a treatment facility in the liberian capital, monrovia, two weeks ago, but its 120 beds are already full. >> the healthcare system has more or less broken down. hospitals have closed, the clinics are closed, some of them have reopened but the staff is afraid to go back because they are afraid to get the disease. >> ifill: in desperation, liberian officials quarantined monrovia's west point neighborhood and armed police have used live ammunition to stop residents from getting out. the medical emergency has also placed a heavy economic strain on affected countries. the african development bank is urging an end to trade and travel restrictions. >> markets are not functioning, airlines are not coming in, projects are being cancelled, business people have left, that is very, very damaging. >> ifill: adding to the difficulty: a different strain of ebola has appeared in the democratic republic of congo, causing 13 deaths so far. here at home, the national institutes of health announced today it will start testing an experimental ebola vaccine next week. for more on that development, i'm joined by dr. anthony fauci, director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases at n.i.h, he'll oversee those trials. dr. fauci, thanks for joining us again. what would trials like this look like? first of all, it's an early phase one trial, meaning this is the first time this vaccine has been put in humans so safety is paramount, so you take a very small number of people, 20 total, three at a time, and you use the vaccine to determine if there are untoward effects any inflammation, hypersensitivity, pain or anything that might be a red flag about safety, and also you learn whether it induces the kind of response in a person that you would hope would be protective against ebola infection. the reason we chose this vaccine is it showed very favorable results in an animal model, a monkey model, in which it protected monkeys very well against a challenge with lethal ebola. so this is a first, because this is the first time this has been in a human, in now what would be a series of steps to ultimately develop it to determine if, in fact, it is effective. >> ifill: this has been in development for some time. you called this an "uncontrolled outbreak" in west africa. dr. tom frieden for the c.d.c. said it will get worse before better. is it this west african outbreak moving this from development to trial? >> we have been working on an ebola vaccine for a number of years, now. this has been one of the priorities, the hemorrhagic fevers of which ebola is actually the worst of those. this is kind of the culmination of a process of developing it, but it was certainly accelerated by what we're seeing now with this extraordinary outbreak in certain west african countries. so we were on the track of an ebola vaccine, but we accelerated it. we didn't cut corners but we really put the afterburners on to get things done much more quickly so that we could get to the point where, next week, we'll put this first time in a human, in a normal volunteer right here in our clinical center in bethesda. >> ifill: we've spent time trying to figure out zmapp. this plan would be working with glaxglaxosmithkline. does that make a difference in the timetable how quickly we would see it come to market if it worked? >> gwen, it makes an extraordinary amount of difference. it really is the game changer. when you have a company like glaxosmithkline who partners fully with the n.i.h., with our science and their capability of producing this, that's how you get things done and, in fact, one of the reasons why we had not gotten the vaccine up to now or even drugs is that there was relatively little interest on the part of many pharmaceutical companies for even drugs or vaccines, and i think the extraordinary dramatic situation which we're going through right now is really going to get people's attention and we'll see a lot more interest in that which i'm very pleased about because we really do need a vaccine and therapeutics. >> ifill: because ebola is such a dangerous virus, how do you assure the safety not only for those taking it in the trial but also for those handling the virus? >> that's a good question. it's important to point out there's no chance of the vaccine giving ema to anyone because we're not giving them an ebola virus. we're giving them a vaccine that has a very small component of the genetic material from ebola that the that would make a protein that is again an important component of the virus but not a virus that can actually replicate. so there's no chance -- when we say "safety" which is the first part of phase one, we're not talking about safety of giving someone ebola, we're talking about safety of an adverse reaction to the vaccine itself. that's an important difference. >> ifill: we're talking about the pocket of 20,000 cases before this thing begins to subside. how do we know the vaccine is the right solution or even are they the right solution? >> a great question because the solution, right now, is what we know can stop an outbreak and that is the ability and the infrastructure to deliver infection control by isolation, by quarantine, by contact tracing and by protecting the healthcare workers with proper personal protective equipment. the difficulty in those west african countries is they don't have that kind of infrastructure in place, and it's truly a struggle to be able to do that kind of infection control. historically, under other circumstances, there have been now about 24 outbreaks of ebola usually in geographically-restricted areas where it was much easier to contain it. you can contain it with good hospital and infection control capabilities. >> ifill: dr. anthony fauci at the national institutes of health. thank you very much. >> you're quite welcome. >> ifill: the u.s. border patrol has apprehended nearly 63,000 unaccompanied children at the southwest border just this year. many of them are then relocated to various cities across the country, creating a growing need for healthcare and education. judy woodruff recently visited a d.c.-based organization that is providing some of that support. >> woodruff: when maria gomez was 13 years old, she and her mother emigrated to the united states from colombia, after her political activist father was murdered. the two settled in washington d.c., where gomez grew up in the midst of a burgeoning latino community. seeing the difficult time many were having, in 1988, gomez gave up her job as a nurse to open mary's center, a place for pregnant latina women to receive free or low-cost prenatal care. many of these women had come to the u.s. to escape poverty and civil war in countries like el salvador. 26 years later, a much expanded mary's center is on the front lines of providing an array of services to an influx of central american families and children. already this year, nearly 6,000 unaccompanied minors from central america have crossed the u.s. border and been released to sponsors in virginia, d.c. and maryland. mary's center alone has received more than 500 of the unaccompanied children over the past few weeks, putting a serious strain on its resources. since its founding, the organization has grown enormously, in order to address the needs of children and adults who've received little or no formal education and many of whom don't speak english. mary's center now offers schooling and social services, in addition to medical care. a few days ago, i visited one of mary's center's four locations in the washington area and spoke with its president and founder maria gomez. maria gomez, thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: so you have run mary's center for over a quarter of a century since 1988. you have seen families. children, coming into the united states from central america and other places. what are you now seeing how is that incoming of people changing? >> the incoming that we're seeing it's almost the same, but people were coming really fleeing the war back in 1988 from el salvador. now, people are fleeing the gang members who are basically doing pretty much the same-- killing their families. we have one child after another whose families have been killed; their brothers and sisters their mothers, their fathers. yesterday we were at a vigil and one of the boys, a 16-year-old, both of his parents were killed right in front of him, and were threatened that if he did not pay them what he earned and from the rest of the family that was there that he would also be killed. >> woodruff: and these are not an occasional story, you're hearing these regularly, is that right? >> every kid that comes in has a story, whether it was their aunt, their grandmother, their father. many, many men-- the fathers of these children-- have been killed because they refused to give them their daily payments that they earned, and sometimes it's for nothing. at the maximum, two, three, five dollars that these people are making a day anyway. >> woodruff: and how are these children getting here? >> what we're hearing from the families and the kids is that the parents or the family members over there sold pretty much everything they had, the little land they had, whatever they had, the cows, sheep, whatever they had so they could get enough money you know, $5,000. so not only do they now have nothing back home, but now they owe money still to these people. >> woodruff: and you also have young women, girls who are being raped? sexually abused on the way? >> many of them, unfortunately because of the gang activities particularly in honduras, the individuals, the young women are being raped even back home. so they're fleeing, they're fleeing many because they'll there's a 50/50 chance that they will cross the border alive than there is a chance to be living back home where they can either be submissive to the abuse or they get killed. >> woodruff: but once they're in the united states there's a good chance they'll be deported back to their home country, what do they face if they go back? >> death is really what they're facing because once an individual becomes a wage-earner they are threatened daily for their wages or they will be killed. that's basically, that's the option they have at this point. that is why you know many parents are taking the risk of actually sending kids as young as nine and eleven years of age across the north. >> woodruff: so you're dealing with families with children who've seen trauma. what're you seeing and how do you deal with it? >> so right now the biggest >> some of them have gotten pregnant. some of them come to relatives, what we're seeing when they come to relatives they go through another trauma. because the relatives realize they cannot afford to have them in their apartment, they realize that they're sort of nuisance, an extra. many of the kids come with the aspiration of coming to school because they've never been to school, some of those kids have never been to school because it's too dangerous. one girl was telling us that they actually killed one of her friends and left body parts on the way to give her the message that if she went to school that would happen to her unless she became part of the gang group. >> woodruff: where does the money come from to take care of all this? >> so right now it's costing us over $800 to take care of these kids. >> woodruff: a person. >> every person because we're not only taking care of the medical piece but the mental health and the dental health and when you add all those things together we can get bills as high as $1,300, $1,500 per person when you start dealing with that. but the basic health care right now is about $800 per person because we have to do special tests now for kids as young as nine years of age for s.t.ds, for h.i.v, that we wouldn't otherwise do that that young right? >> woodruff: and do you feel you're able to address the need? are you able to do what needs to be done? >> we have the staffing, we have the staff to be able to do that even if it means we extend hours we have the psychologist, the psychiatrists, the medical staff to do that we have the capacity. i think what's concerning now is that right now we're running as of the end of july up to now we've racked up almost $400,000 worth of free care that we've given because these individuals are not able to pay. >> woodruff: the stories you tell and that they tell are so powerful, but yet there are still people in the united states who say, "we're very sympathetic we wish it weren't this way, but we first have to pay attention to problems in our own country. we can't receive people who are suffering from all around the world." what do you say to those people? >> i totally understand what they are saying, but i also know this land has an opportunity, this is how we were created to take people from all over the world. what i say to people who talk about the fact that we can't take on and we have so many people that we have to still take care of. i often wonder are we really as a community, i'm an american now i have a u.s. passport. are we really taking care of the poorest and the most vulnerable in this country? that when we're given an opportunity we as americans always pay it back and that is what i think what we need to look forward to. >> woodruff: maria gomez, mary's center, we thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you very much for the opportunity. >> ifill: next, for years, community colleges in america have opened their doors to everyone, offering a huge variety of courses at a fraction of the cost. but with only 5% of community college students graduating on time, should the schools be revamped? the city of chicago believes so, and has hired a controversial chancellor who has her own story of transformation. hari is back with the next in our series on "rethinking college". these are all natural science classes. >> sreenivasan: cheryl knows these hallways better than most. after all, she walked them some 20 years ago as a community college student. >> let's see if i can recognize any of my old classrooms. >> all righty. >> sreenivasan: today, she walks as the boss. in 2010, heimen was asked by chicago's mayor to leave a lucrative job at the utility giant commonwealth edison to become chancellor of city colleges of chicago, one of the largest community college systems in the country. >> this is how much closer we need to get to the starting. >> sreenivasan: heimen manages a budget of $650 million, overseas, hundreds of employees and seven college campuses. her task was to turn around a dismal record. only 7% of the 115,000 students were graduating. >> good luck and thanks for attending city colleges of chicago. >> sreenivasan: like many students at city colleges of chicago, heimen had a challenging childhood. >> how are you? appy birthday! >> sreenivasan: raised in chicago's public housing by parents addicted to drugs, she left home at age 17, dropped out of high school and, for a time, became homeless. against the odds, heimen returned to school, getting her high school diploma, a bachelor's degree and an nba from northwestern universities prestigious kellogg school of management. how important is it for someone sitting in that sort of prospective student's chair to say here's a woman who came through the housing authority, went through corporate america and she's running this place. i can see myself in her shoes? >> i think a lot. i think a lot. what many of our students need more than anything else is hope. a lot of times they walk through our doors and they don't have that. i think, without that, it doesn't matter what type of education we're providing them, they will never think that they can make it out of their circumstances, but they will somehow think that their circumstances dictate their destiny, and i tried very hard to give them that hope that that's not true. that's part of why i came from corporate america and took this job. >> sreenivasan: now heimen hopes to reinvent the city colleges of chicago. >> how do you establish a model which helps you shift the paradigm of how community colleges should be defined? shift the paradigm from institutions that have typically been solely focused on access to those who now couple access is success, and what we mean by "success" is that students are continuing what they came here for in a timely manner and that those credentials are relevant. >> if you think a dna -- >> sreenivasan: currently, only 5% of the 8.3 million students enrolled in community colleges graduate over time. meaning 35 million americans over age 25 have some college credit but no degree. were students coming to city colleges and taking credits they didn't particularly need or wouldn't translate into a job? >> they were. they would come in with a perception of i want to be x, and then they thumb through this huge course catalog to try to put their future together with the limited information and guidance. >> sreenivasan: when heimen arrived at city colleges of chicago she said too many students were taking classes that didn't advance them toward a degree and, as a result, many dropped out. others like shana henderson say they wasted time and money. henderson ended up with 88 credits, 26 more than she needed for her associate's degree. >> i didn't necessarily know how to navigate college and select classes so i took art because i figured that, you know, i liked drawing, but i didn't know necessarily if that will count towards my graduation. >> what's really going to determine when and how often we offer it is students' availability. >> sreenivasan: heimened tripled the number of students advisors and crated course by course career paths for every student. >> we watched pathways toward success which takes what we know to be relevant industries which represent the job market and what four-year institutions look for and taken those and put them in clear semester-by-semester pathways. ♪ >> sreenivasan: new transfer agreements with four-year universities insured college students were taking proper courses towards a bachelor's degree. that seems basic. that seems fundamental. i would expect a city college or any college would have my credits to transfer. >> it does seem very fundamental to you and i, but it was revolutionary when i started talking about it. students would get their associate's degree and transfer and only half their credits would transfer. >> sreenivasan: the changei helped shana henderson transfer to the university of illinois. >> in my family, they always had to take care of family or work, so i think to take it upon myself to have that accomplishment for my family will make us all proud. (cheering) >> sreenivasan: in three years since heimen lost her reinvention campaign graduation rates nearly doubled. the number of degrees awarded jumped from 2,000 to 4,000. but the reinvention of city colleges also met with controversy. heimen with no background in education was under fire from faculty for hiring expense v outside business consultants and at the same time took the drastic move of replacing six out of seven college presidents. >> students have to juggle their schedules. >> sreenivasan: she cut staff, eliminating courses and other cost and took a hard line on labor negotiations to save $51 million. what is the hardest part of changing a cul culture? >> well, the hardest part of change is culture. i think the hardest part of changing culture is you have to convince everybody that you're changing not to hurt them but you're changing so that everybody can have a win-win. >> sreenivasan: heimen's sweeping changes at city colleges of chicago will be watched closely by both critics and supporters as a reinvention plan heads into its fourth year this fall. >> ifill: tomorrow harry looks at >> ifill: tomorrow hari looks at performance funding at public universities. the more students graduate the more money the institution gets from the state. online, read about how an arizona community college is running its campuses like a business and whether its students benefit from being treated like customers-- that's on our education page. finally tonight: some people may judge a book by its cover. but what about creating a cover that best represents a book? jeff recently talked to a man whose job is to do just that. >> brown: book lovers and you know who you are will recognize the covers of numerous books who appeared in the last decade from issues of classical writers to new novels and works of non-fiction. the man who designs the covers is stepping forward with two books of his own, one that investigates the act of reading called "what we see when we read" and second a compendium of his work and thoughts about it entitled "cover." peter mendelsund is the associate art director. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> brown: how do you see the job? >> the job is to represent the author's words. we read the manuscript when we get it and try to find some way of translating those words into a visual that can sort of bear the weight of the narrative. >> brown: i shouldn't be surprised that you actually read it, but you do a deep reading of the book. >> yeah. it's a serious responsibility, and i like to read the work as closely as i can. it's very important to me that the cover that ends up on the book not be in some way dissident with the author's project as a whole. >> brown: you write about reading in a different way. you're looking for different things than i would be as a general reader. >> it's an extreme process in reading as a designer. i'm interested in visual emblems or occasions in a book i can translate into something visual. it could be a scene, a character, it could be a metaphor itself, but just anything in the text that could be made visual and then that thing can be sort of a vessel that the whole book can be poured into. >> brown: when you say you bear the responsibility, that goes to do we judge a book by its cover, right? you're coming between the author and potential readers. >> it's a very serious responsibility. i feel a tremendous amount of guilt when i get it wrong. it's important to me and my responsibility to the author to make sure they're comfortable with the thing that wraps their -- their baby. >> brown: have you developed a theory about what makes a great cover and vice versa? >> i would say there's two answers to that question. one is a great cover is, as i said, a cover that really does a great job of representing that particular story, but, of course, a great cover is also a cover that sells a book well. >> brown: yeah. and my theory about what sells a book well is not a popular theory, but i think any cover that looks very different from all the covers around it, that cover is going to draw your eye. so if all the covers on the table are colorful and you make a white cover, it may seem bland by itself, but that white cover, just by virtue of being different, will draw your eye and draw you to it. >> brown: i want to give an example. one of the biggest sellers in your successes is steve larson books. why did that work? >> well, i have another theory is if you make something pretty enough, it doesn't matter what it looks like, people will want it. i think this is an extremely violent murder mystery and the cliches for jacketing the books are shadowy guys, trench coats, murder weapons, a lot of blood. you put blood on any kind of jacket image and it will signal it's a crime novel. in this case, there's no blood and it is delicately wrought and the color is very unusual, a very bright day glow yellow. and i think that kind of proves my point was that it just looked so different and, hopefully, was visually appealing enough that when you were in a book store and saw it, at the very least, you would come a little closer to it, close of like a mag pie, you just wanted t to pick it up. >> brown: did you know it away or did sales tell you you succeeded? >> it was an arduous process coming up with the cover, i did probably 50 versions. >> brown: is that normal? sometimes lightning strikes away and you have your eureka moments but i do as much work i feel i need to do to do the job. and even after it's made, there was hemming and hawing about whether it was the right cover, which just proves you can never get consensus on these things. but i was happy with it. ip not sure if it's a good cover by association or whether it's generally a good cover, but i'm proud of it, for what it's worth. >> brown: in what we'll call the smaller book, you asked the question what we see when we read. you're actually talking about what we see, what we imagine, and i'm wondering, we're in a visual culture, now, and this obviously ties to the kind of work you do as a designer of covers. >> that's right. it occurred to me at some point i was plucking, as i said, these sort of visions out of an author's work and it occurred to me it was a strange process. it wasn't quite the way i think i imagined it and the way i had imagined it is the way most people imagines it which is the author provides you their vision of a particular world that's populated by particularly characters and you read about them and you see the author's people and places, then you close the book and it's over. and the strange thing is really, i realized when i started to examine these kind of visions, the author's prompts weren't mattering that much. he might say anna has black hair, is tightly curled. i'm picturing whatever the closest analog i can come up with to the woman tolstoy very narrowly describes to us and that might be a teacher of mine from grade school, turns out when you examine the process and parse it, we all co-create the book along with the writer. >> brown: do you think all of this is changing because of the changing technology, a changing society that is more visual, perhaps, than print oriented? >> in a way it makes this idea of imagining things for ourselves this kind of nebulous anand this world where we're bombarded with visual stimuli, there are very few places other than dreaming that we get a feeling of occupying a metaphysical realm. so it's special this that regard. we text pictures to each other, see pictures on the internet and everything is visual. so it's nice to think of this more, as i put it, kind of amophous place. it becomes more precious. >> brown: what we see when we read and covers. peter mendelsund. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> ifill: we have a photo gallery of peter mendelsund's work, on our art beat page. again, the major developments of the day: ukraine accused russia of invading its territory, the u.s. and other powers said moscow has "outright lied" about its actions, but president obama ruled out a military response. the president also tried to tamp down talk of military action against islamic state fighters in syria. he said, "we don't have a strategy" yet. the world health organization reported the death toll in the west african ebola outbreak rose above 1,550. could be 20,000 cases in the months ahead. on the newshour online right now: the artist who's wrapped entire islands and bridges in bright fabric now wants to cover a 42-mile stretch of the arkansas river with a curtain of translucent silver. but the project, titled "over the river," is on pause due to legal challenges from groups that say it will damage the environment. in the meantime you can see drawings of what this art installation will look like, on our art beat page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, we'll look at zmapp the experimental drug protocol that is being used in very limited amounts to treat ebola. i'm gwen ifill. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> charles schwab, proud supporter of the "pbs newshour." >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
need more than anything else is hope. a lot of times, they walk through our doors, they don't have that. >> ifill: those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: president obama moved today to tamp down talk of imminent military action against islamic state fighters in syria. at the white house, he said his priority is to "roll back" the militants' gain in iraq, where u.s. air strikes are already under way. he said calls to expand the campaign into syria amount to "putting the cart before the horse." >> we don't have a strategy yet. i think what i've seen in some of the news reports suggests that folks are getting a lilt further ahead than we currently are. but there's no point in me asking for action on the part of congress before i know exactly what it is that is going to be required for us to get the job done. >> ifill: separately, there was word that islamic state fighters executed more than 150 soldiers captured in recent fighting. the troops were taken prisoner after militants seized a key airbase in northeastern syria. a video posted on youtube showed a long line of bodies lying face down in the sand. gunmen on the syrian side of the golan heights have detained 43 u.n. peacekeepers from fiji. u.n. officials say it happened during fighting between an unidentified armed group and syrian troops. another 81 peacekeepers-- from the philippines-- were trapped. afterward, u.n. troops kept a close watch on the syrian side of the heights. their mission is to monitor a zone of separation between syrian and israeli forces. j.p. morgan-chase bank has confirmed it's investigating a possible cyber attack, but it says the scope is unclear. "bloomberg news" reported it's part of a series of coordinated and sophisticated attacks by russian hackers. and, "the new york times" reported at least four other banks were also targeted in the last month. the stolen data includes checking and savings account information. a family feud over control of a supermarket chain in new england is finally over. the disagreement, which began in june, spawned worker and customer boycotts that attracted national attention. now, arthur t. demoulas will buy the majority stake in the chain from his cousin for $1.5 billion. he celebrated with employees today in tewksbury, massachusetts. the battle for control ultimately cost the grocery chain millions of dollars in lost revenue. on wall street today, stocks edged lower after the latest spark in the ukraine crisis. the dow jones industrial average lost 42 points to close at 17,079. the nasdaq slipped nearly 12 points to close at 4,557. and the s&p 500 dropped three points to 1,996. the national football league is getting tougher on domestic violence. commissioner roger goodell announced today players will be suspended for six games for a first offense. they'll be banned outright if it happens a second time. goodell was criticized when he suspended the baltimore ravens' ray rice for just two weeks for allegedly hitting his fianceée. today, he acknowledged he "didn't get it right." still to come on the newshour: russian troops advance into ukraine, speeding up human trials of a new ebola vaccine, providing for unaccompanied child migrants, reinventing chicago's community colleges, and, the creative process behind designing bold and iconic book covers. >> ifill: the crisis in ukraine intensified today as the government in kiev accused russia of an outright invasion. hari sreenivasan reports. >> we can confirm that russian military boots are on ukrainian ground. >> sreenivasan: the cries of invasion came from ukraine's prime minister arseniy yatseniuk and from president petro poroshenko, who announced, "russian forces have entered ukraine." >> ( translated ): amateur mercenaries along with employed russian servicemen are trying to organize a counter-offensive against positions of our armed forces. without any doubts, the situation is extraordinarily difficult, but it is controllable. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainians charged russian soldiers and armor are helping rebels open a new front in the southeast. kiev confirmed the rebels have captured the town of novoazovsk on the azov sea-- leaving the port city of mariupol suddenly vulnerable to attack. ukraine's government said images from novoazovsk showed a russian tank on the streets. and nato released its own satellite images, showing russian self-propelled artillery units on ukrainian roads. the alliance said well over 1,000 russian troops have crossed the border-- and warned of more to come. >> these latest imagery provides concrete examples of russian activity inside ukraine, but they are only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the overall scope of russian troop and weapons movements. >> sreenivasan: earlier this week, ukraine had released a video showing what it said were russian servicemen captured on its territory. and today, the rebel "prime minister" acknowledged several thousand russians are fighting with the rebels on their own time. >> ( translated ): among volunteers from russia there have always been many retired military servicemen. there are also currently serving soldiers among us who preferred to spend their vacations not on sea beaches, but among us, among brothers fighting for their freedom. >> sreenivasan: the spike in tensions prompted angry words at the u.n. security council. u.s. ambassador samantha power blasted previous russian denials of complicity. >> at every step, russia has come before this council to say everything except the truth. it has manipulated, it has obfuscated, it has outright lied. so we have learned to measure russia by its actions and not by its words. >> sreenivasan: in turn, russian ambassador vitaly churkin dismissed the accusations, without directly denying anything. >> ( translated ): everyone knows that there are russian volunteers in eastern parts of ukraine, no one is hiding that. we'd like to see similar transparency shown by other countries. i would suggest that we send a message to washington. stop interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign states. stop trying to undermine a regime that you don't like-- >> we are not taking military action to solve the ukrainian problem. what we're doing is to mobilize the international community to apply pressure on russia. but i think it is very important to recognize that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming. >> brown: the president argued pressure from existing and possibly new sanctions will take an increasing toll on russia even if it's not apparent now. for more on what's happening on the ground in ukraine, joined by andrew kramer from the "new york times" from donetsk. you were visiting a town where the russian troops were streaming in. describe that scene to us. >> this is in a down o town on . we were standing on the outside of the town speaking with ukrainian soldiers retreating. the soldiers were convinced they were fighting the russians, at least many were. we didn't see the troops coming in, but they were said to have come across the border from russia into ukraine. it was a very chaotic scene. in fact, a day later, that town was seize bid the pro-russian forces. >> brown: you also spoke of locals in the area. what did they think about what's happening. >> people who support the russian cause are cheered by the development. the revolution had been on its last legs in the last few weeks and now there's been a reversal of the fortunes, a turning of the tide here. the separatists and, according to ukrainian government, with the support of russia has moved across the russian border and has now opened a new front in the south along the seashore with the cities onovasosk and mario pal as the objectives. the intention is to form a defensive triangle out of the two cities in donetsk and force the ukrainian government into settlement talks on more favorable terms. >> sreenivasan: you're in donetsk now. what's the impact there on what's happening in the other towns? >> in donetsk, little has changed. an artillery barrage killed two today, hitting residential areas. the ukrainian government is keeping up pressure on donetsk. the assumption is forces will be diverted from here to the south to address this new risk and new push by pro russian and possibly with the support of russian supporters coming in across the border. that's the hope of the separatists in this town. it's a setback for the ukrainians who hope to end the war quickly and on their terms. >> sreenivasan: can you feel a level of intention increasing or decreasing from the events in the past weeks? >> the tension is certainly increasing particularly in the towns and villages affected. we drove along a 75-mile stretch of highway from here in donetsk to the area where the battle is taking place and it was almost wholly deserted. you would see only a few cars carrying refugees, burned-out military vehicles and people who were very concerned, obviously, about this new development and the violence which is coming to their communities. >> sreenivasan: is there a cognition of what's happening and how the rest of the world is paying attention? do the people in ukraine, the ones that you speak with, care about what's happening at n.a.t.o. or whether this is called an invasion or incursion? >> people in the areas that have been shelled are mostly concerned about everyday concerns like fetching water and food and staying out of the way of danger. there is certainly, among the rebels, a larger understanding of the context of this war and this conflict. ukraine has now said -- the president of ukraine has said today that russia invaded, n.a.t.o. was more cautious saying russia had carried out an incursion into ukraine. in any case, what's clearly happening here is across border military action in europe and the consequences are very unpredictable. >> sreenivasan: andrew kramer from "new york times" joining us from donetsk. thanks so much. >> thank you. >> brown: i'm joint by andrew weiss, a director of russian ukrainian and eurasian affairs at the white house national security council and now with the carnegie endowment andrei tegoncof and, a political science and international relations professor at san francisco state university. andrew weiss, how do you describe what's going on and who are the russian soldiers? >> i think the russians are disguising their moments so we may have a new front on the southeastern border between russia and ukraine and a russian attempt to create a land bridge between the russian border and crimea, which will allow them to supply crimea more effectively in the future. >> brown: do you use the word invasion, incursion? >> there's a game played in washington where u.s. officials are trying hard not to use the word invasion so you have the state department spokesman saying it's an incursion. the reason for that is u.s. officials, as president obama said today, said they're trying to avoid any perception there's oust military response in the offing so they're downplaying what's happened, but privately people are worried what we're seeing is a dramatic escalation. >> brown: andrei tegoncof, what do you call it? >> i would call it an escalation as andrew weiss described the second front opening and this is something that's been going on quite some time. we have seen the russia assistance before and this is not news. what's new is the ukrainian side is beginning to lose on the front and the russian president has not gotten what he expected to get and germany is pressuring kiev for peaceful solutions. in addition to russia's escalation, ukraine, kiev is launching a p.r. offense against russia. >> brown: you're seeing this as coming from weakness by the ukrainians as opposed to more aggression by the russians? >> i see both, but russia's intervention is not something that has happened just now. russia has been assisting the eastern rebels before. russian volunteers, we know previous commanders of donetsk and luhansk and primarily donetsk were russian citizens. so russia was certainly involved and makes sense, if russia sees itself as a great power to be involved, so it has been taking place quite some time. this was a new speech. we also see that ukraine is trying to launch a p.r. offensive against russia. >> brown: andrew weiss, ukraine has had a stronger military in many ways which would counteract what weiss is saying. >> it looked like the separatists were cornered into strong holds in donetsk and luhansk, and the question is putin cornered? and putin talks about chasing rats in a building he grew up in and he cornered the rat and discovered the rat will attack. patton at various terms in the crisis has chosen to escalate and he's done that once again. >> brown: so you're seeing this differently from the description we've heard. this is russia reacting? >> i don't think putin is to mount a full scale invasion of ukraine but we're seeing they're not willing to lose and when it looks like the ukrainians are poised to do too much too quickly the russians raise the stakes and that's where we are today. >> brown: andrei tegoncof, what's your response? go ahead. >> i don't disagree. i think russia is raising the stakes. remember russia is raising the stakes in response to the ukrainians raising the stakes. ukrainians have anti-terrorist stipulations, searching for a military solution to the conflict, and the russians will see this as a need to restore balance of power. for them, this is a necessity to negotiate better i political conditions for their interests and values. they have major interests for ukraine wants to be a member of n.a.t.o. and join the european union. they have interests to protect russian language speakers there, those who gravitate toward russia, and this is something that they will be willing to defend if necessary by military means. >> brown: andrew weiss, just before we started, you heard word of a new pronouncement or a news announcement, was it, from putin? >> what seems to be happening is andrew kramer from the "new york times" talked about is this russian incursion into ukraine has caused disruption and soldiers are evacuating in a pall mall environment. the russian putin issued a statement 1:00 a.m. moscow time calling on the rebels not to kill the ukrainian soldiers who are now encircled. he said, open a humanitarian corridor. these people are forced to fight, let them go home to their families. it's not clear what's going on on the ground if there is a significant risk that ukrainian forces are going to be ground up by the new russian forces introduce. but it's striking putin is sending out commands via press release, suggesting the situation is very messy and uncontrolled. >> brown: can you comment on that and the sense of whether russias and mr. putin are feeling any impact of the american sanctions so far, whether the pressure from the west is having any impact? >> let me make one observation about the situation in ukraine. certainly russians who are assisting the rebels and the rebels were losing until recently, but a week ago they began a counteroffensive and that's what's happening today. thousands of ukrainian troops are encircled. that's not sufficiently reported in western media but is something that helps putin to negotiate better conditions. this is one of the reasons why he felt so confident in minsk and one of the reasons he did not feel he would need to negotiate poroshenko because poroshenko already nose the conditions and the ball in many ways is in his court. russia can wait until the fall and possibly winter whether it will also be able to use energy weapons and in the meantime the solution is only a political one. this is something, russia recognizes this, the european union, angela merkel, barack obama recognizes this. so it's essential to move in this direction. >> brown: andrew weiss andrei tegoncof and, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> ifill: there were new numbers and a bleak projection today on the ebola outbreak in west africa. at the same time, it appears human trials will begin for a possible vaccine as soon as next week. the ominous forecast came from the world health organization: ebola cases could top 20,000 as the outbreak continues to spread. >> it is now, as you know, really a multinational effort, three countries, heavily affected, not just remote isolated areas where you can rapidly contain, but we are dealing with this disease in large, urban environments and over large geographic areas. this is very unique. >> ifill: so far, the u.n. agency has confirmed more than 3,000 cases. of that number, more than half have died-- in liberia, sierra leone, guinea and nigeria. but the w.h.o says the outbreak could spread to ten other countries. to contain the virus, the agency announced a $490 million strategic plan for the next nine months. >> when we look at the numbers of people to make this work, we are going to need 750 internationals at least and 12,000 nationals, not in capital that is very difficult in the current environment, but that is the scale of manpower needed to do this. >> ifill: the "current environment" includes a sizeable fear factor, especially in liberia, the country with the most ebola cases and deaths. doctors without borders opened a treatment facility in the liberian capital, monrovia, two weeks ago, but its 120 beds are already full. >> the healthcare system has more or less broken down. hospitals have closed, the clinics are closed, some of them have reopened but the staff is afraid to go back because they are afraid to get the disease. >> ifill: in desperation, liberian officials quarantined monrovia's west point neighborhood and armed police have used live ammunition to stop residents from getting out. the medical emergency has also placed a heavy economic strain on affected countries. the african development bank is urging an end to trade and travel restrictions. >> markets are not functioning, airlines are not coming in, projects are being cancelled, business people have left, that is very, very damaging. >> ifill: adding to the difficulty: a different strain of ebola has appeared in the democratic republic of congo, causing 13 deaths so far. here at home, the national institutes of health announced today it will start testing an experimental ebola vaccine next week. for more on that development, i'm joined by dr. anthony fauci, director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases at n.i.h, he'll oversee those trials. dr. fauci, thanks for joining us again. what would trials like this look like? first of all, it's an early phase one trial, meaning this is the first time this vaccine has been put in humans so safety is paramount, so you take a very small number of people, 20 total, three at a time, and you use the vaccine to determine if there are untoward effects any inflammation, hypersensitivity, pain or anything that might be a red flag about safety, and also you learn whether it induces the kind of response in a person that you would hope would be protective against ebola infection. the reason we chose this vaccine is it showed very favorable results in an animal model, a monkey model, in which it protected monkeys very well against a challenge with lethal ebola. so this is a first, because this is the first time this has been in a human, in now what would be a series of steps to ultimately develop it to determine if, in fact, it is effective. >> ifill: this has been in development for some time. you called this an "uncontrolled outbreak" in west africa. dr. tom frieden for the c.d.c. said it will get worse before better. is it this west african outbreak moving this from development to trial? >> we have been working on an ebola vaccine for a number of years, now. this has been one of the priorities, the hemorrhagic fevers of which ebola is actually the worst of those. this is kind of the culmination of a process of developing it, but it was certainly accelerated by what we're seeing now with this extraordinary outbreak in certain west african countries. so we were on the track of an ebola vaccine, but we accelerated it. we didn't cut corners but we really put the afterburners on to get things done much more quickly so that we could get to the point where, next week, we'll put this first time in a human, in a normal volunteer right here in our clinical center in bethesda. >> ifill: we've spent time trying to figure out zmapp. this plan would be working with glaxglaxosmithkline. does that make a difference in the timetable how quickly we would see it come to market if it worked? >> gwen, it makes an extraordinary amount of difference. it really is the game changer. when you have a company like glaxosmithkline who partners fully with the n.i.h., with our science and their capability of producing this, that's how you get things done and, in fact, one of the reasons why we had not gotten the vaccine up to now or even drugs is that there was relatively little interest on the part of many pharmaceutical companies for even drugs or vaccines, and i think the extraordinary dramatic situation which we're going through right now is really going to get people's attention and we'll see a lot more interest in that which i'm very pleased about because we really do need a vaccine and therapeutics. >> ifill: because ebola is such a dangerous virus, how do you assure the safety not only for those taking it in the trial but also for those handling the virus? >> that's a good question. it's important to point out there's no chance of the vaccine giving ema to anyone because we're not giving them an ebola virus. we're giving them a vaccine that has a very small component of the genetic material from ebola that the that would make a protein that is again an important component of the virus but not a virus that can actually replicate. so there's no chance -- when we say "safety" which is the first part of phase one, we're not talking about safety of giving someone ebola, we're talking about safety of an adverse reaction to the vaccine itself. that's an important difference. >> ifill: we're talking about the pocket of 20,000 cases before this thing begins to subside. how do we know the vaccine is the right solution or even are they the right solution? >> a great question because the solution, right now, is what we know can stop an outbreak and that is the ability and the infrastructure to deliver infection control by isolation, by quarantine, by contact tracing and by protecting the healthcare workers with proper personal protective equipment. the difficulty in those west african countries is they don't have that kind of infrastructure in place, and it's truly a struggle to be able to do that kind of infection control. historically, under other circumstances, there have been now about 24 outbreaks of ebola usually in geographically-restricted areas where it was much easier to contain it. you can contain it with good hospital and infection control capabilities. >> ifill: dr. anthony fauci at the national institutes of health. thank you very much. >> you're quite welcome. >> ifill: the u.s. border patrol has apprehended nearly 63,000 unaccompanied children at the southwest border just this year. many of them are then relocated to various cities across the country, creating a growing need for healthcare and education. judy woodruff recently visited a d.c.-based organization that is providing some of that support. >> woodruff: when maria gomez was 13 years old, she and her mother emigrated to the united states from colombia, after her political activist father was murdered. the two settled in washington d.c., where gomez grew up in the midst of a burgeoning latino community. seeing the difficult time many were having, in 1988, gomez gave up her job as a nurse to open mary's center, a place for pregnant latina women to receive free or low-cost prenatal care. many of these women had come to the u.s. to escape poverty and civil war in countries like el salvador. 26 years later, a much expanded mary's center is on the front lines of providing an array of services to an influx of central american families and children. already this year, nearly 6,000 unaccompanied minors from central america have crossed the u.s. border and been released to sponsors in virginia, d.c. and maryland. mary's center alone has received more than 500 of the unaccompanied children over the past few weeks, putting a serious strain on its resources. since its founding, the organization has grown enormously, in order to address the needs of children and adults who've received little or no formal education and many of whom don't speak english. mary's center now offers schooling and social services, in addition to medical care. a few days ago, i visited one of mary's center's four locations in the washington area and spoke with its president and founder maria gomez. maria gomez, thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: so you have run mary's center for over a quarter of a century since 1988. you have seen families. children, coming into the united states from central america and other places. what are you now seeing how is that incoming of people changing? >> the incoming that we're seeing it's almost the same, but people were coming really fleeing the war back in 1988 from el salvador. now, people are fleeing the gang members who are basically doing pretty much the same-- killing their families. we have one child after another whose families have been killed; their brothers and sisters their mothers, their fathers. yesterday we were at a vigil and one of the boys, a 16-year-old, both of his parents were killed right in front of him, and were threatened that if he did not pay them what he earned and from the rest of the family that was there that he would also be killed. >> woodruff: and these are not an occasional story, you're hearing these regularly, is that right? >> every kid that comes in has a story, whether it was their aunt, their grandmother, their father. many, many men-- the fathers of these children-- have been killed because they refused to give them their daily payments that they earned, and sometimes it's for nothing. at the maximum, two, three, five dollars that these people are making a day anyway. >> woodruff: and how are these children getting here? >> what we're hearing from the families and the kids is that the parents or the family members over there sold pretty much everything they had, the little land they had, whatever they had, the cows, sheep, whatever they had so they could get enough money you know, $5,000. so not only do they now have nothing back home, but now they owe money still to these people. >> woodruff: and you also have young women, girls who are being raped? sexually abused on the way? >> many of them, unfortunately because of the gang activities particularly in honduras, the individuals, the young women are being raped even back home. so they're fleeing, they're fleeing many because they'll there's a 50/50 chance that they will cross the border alive than there is a chance to be living back home where they can either be submissive to the abuse or they get killed. >> woodruff: but once they're in the united states there's a good chance they'll be deported back to their home country, what do they face if they go back? >> death is really what they're facing because once an individual becomes a wage-earner they are threatened daily for their wages or they will be killed. that's basically, that's the option they have at this point. that is why you know many parents are taking the risk of actually sending kids as young as nine and eleven years of age across the north. >> woodruff: so you're dealing with families with children who've seen trauma. what're you seeing and how do you deal with it? >> so right now the biggest >> some of them have gotten pregnant. some of them come to relatives, what we're seeing when they come to relatives they go through another trauma. because the relatives realize they cannot afford to have them in their apartment, they realize that they're sort of nuisance, an extra. many of the kids come with the aspiration of coming to school because they've never been to school, some of those kids have never been to school because it's too dangerous. one girl was telling us that they actually killed one of her friends and left body parts on the way to give her the message that if she went to school that would happen to her unless she became part of the gang group. >> woodruff: where does the money come from to take care of all this? >> so right now it's costing us over $800 to take care of these kids. >> woodruff: a person. >> every person because we're not only taking care of the medical piece but the mental health and the dental health and when you add all those things together we can get bills as high as $1,300, $1,500 per person when you start dealing with that. but the basic health care right now is about $800 per person because we have to do special tests now for kids as young as nine years of age for s.t.ds, for h.i.v, that we wouldn't otherwise do that that young right? >> woodruff: and do you feel you're able to address the need? are you able to do what needs to be done? >> we have the staffing, we have the staff to be able to do that even if it means we extend hours we have the psychologist, the psychiatrists, the medical staff to do that we have the capacity. i think what's concerning now is that right now we're running as of the end of july up to now we've racked up almost $400,000 worth of free care that we've given because these individuals are not able to pay. >> woodruff: the stories you tell and that they tell are so powerful, but yet there are still people in the united states who say, "we're very sympathetic we wish it weren't this way, but we first have to pay attention to problems in our own country. we can't receive people who are suffering from all around the world." what do you say to those people? >> i totally understand what they are saying, but i also know this land has an opportunity, this is how we were created to take people from all over the world. what i say to people who talk about the fact that we can't take on and we have so many people that we have to still take care of. i often wonder are we really as a community, i'm an american now i have a u.s. passport. are we really taking care of the poorest and the most vulnerable in this country? that when we're given an opportunity we as americans always pay it back and that is what i think what we need to look forward to. >> woodruff: maria gomez, mary's center, we thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you very much for the opportunity. >> ifill: next, for years, community colleges in america have opened their doors to everyone, offering a huge variety of courses at a fraction of the cost. but with only 5% of community college students graduating on time, should the schools be revamped? the city of chicago believes so, and has hired a controversial chancellor who has her own story of transformation. hari is back with the next in our series on "rethinking college". these are all natural science classes. >> sreenivasan: cheryl knows these hallways better than most. after all, she walked them some 20 years ago as a community college student. >> let's see if i can recognize any of my old classrooms. >> all righty. >> sreenivasan: today, she walks as the boss. in 2010, heimen was asked by chicago's mayor to leave a lucrative job at the utility giant commonwealth edison to become chancellor of city colleges of chicago, one of the largest community college systems in the country. >> this is how much closer we need to get to the starting. >> sreenivasan: heimen manages a budget of $650 million, overseas, hundreds of employees and seven college campuses. her task was to turn around a dismal record. only 7% of the 115,000 students were graduating. >> good luck and thanks for attending city colleges of chicago. >> sreenivasan: like many students at city colleges of chicago, heimen had a challenging childhood. >> how are you? appy birthday! >> sreenivasan: raised in chicago's public housing by parents addicted to drugs, she left home at age 17, dropped out of high school and, for a time, became homeless. against the odds, heimen returned to school, getting her high school diploma, a bachelor's degree and an nba from northwestern universities prestigious kellogg school of management. how important is it for someone sitting in that sort of prospective student's chair to say here's a woman who came through the housing authority, went through corporate america and she's running this place. i can see myself in her shoes? >> i think a lot. i think a lot. what many of our students need more than anything else is hope. a lot of times they walk through our doors and they don't have that. i think, without that, it doesn't matter what type of education we're providing them, they will never think that they can make it out of their circumstances, but they will somehow think that their circumstances dictate their destiny, and i tried very hard to give them that hope that that's not true. that's part of why i came from corporate america and took this job. >> sreenivasan: now heimen hopes to reinvent the city colleges of chicago. >> how do you establish a model which helps you shift the paradigm of how community colleges should be defined? shift the paradigm from institutions that have typically been solely focused on access to those who now couple access is success, and what we mean by "success" is that students are continuing what they came here for in a timely manner and that those credentials are relevant. >> if you think a dna -- >> sreenivasan: currently, only 5% of the 8.3 million students enrolled in community colleges graduate over time. meaning 35 million americans over age 25 have some college credit but no degree. were students coming to city colleges and taking credits they didn't particularly need or wouldn't translate into a job? >> they were. they would come in with a perception of i want to be x, and then they thumb through this huge course catalog to try to put their future together with the limited information and guidance. >> sreenivasan: when heimen arrived at city colleges of chicago she said too many students were taking classes that didn't advance them toward a degree and, as a result, many dropped out. others like shana henderson say they wasted time and money. henderson ended up with 88 credits, 26 more than she needed for her associate's degree. >> i didn't necessarily know how to navigate college and select classes so i took art because i figured that, you know, i liked drawing, but i didn't know necessarily if that will count towards my graduation. >> what's really going to determine when and how often we offer it is students' availability. >> sreenivasan: heimened tripled the number of students advisors and crated course by course career paths for every student. >> we watched pathways toward success which takes what we know to be relevant industries which represent the job market and what four-year institutions look for and taken those and put them in clear semester-by-semester pathways. ♪ >> sreenivasan: new transfer agreements with four-year universities insured college students were taking proper courses towards a bachelor's degree. that seems basic. that seems fundamental. i would expect a city college or any college would have my credits to transfer. >> it does seem very fundamental to you and i, but it was revolutionary when i started talking about it. students would get their associate's degree and transfer and only half their credits would transfer. >> sreenivasan: the changei helped shana henderson transfer to the university of illinois. >> in my family, they always had to take care of family or work, so i think to take it upon myself to have that accomplishment for my family will make us all proud. (cheering) >> sreenivasan: in three years since heimen lost her reinvention campaign graduation rates nearly doubled. the number of degrees awarded jumped from 2,000 to 4,000. but the reinvention of city colleges also met with controversy. heimen with no background in education was under fire from faculty for hiring expense v outside business consultants and at the same time took the drastic move of replacing six out of seven college presidents. >> students have to juggle their schedules. >> sreenivasan: she cut staff, eliminating courses and other cost and took a hard line on labor negotiations to save $51 million. what is the hardest part of changing a cul culture? >> well, the hardest part of change is culture. i think the hardest part of changing culture is you have to convince everybody that you're changing not to hurt them but you're changing so that everybody can have a win-win. >> sreenivasan: heimen's sweeping changes at city colleges of chicago will be watched closely by both critics and supporters as a reinvention plan heads into its fourth year this fall. >> ifill: tomorrow harry looks at >> ifill: tomorrow hari looks at performance funding at public universities. the more students graduate the more money the institution gets from the state. online, read about how an arizona community college is running its campuses like a business and whether its students benefit from being treated like customers-- that's on our education page. finally tonight: some people may judge a book by its cover. but what about creating a cover that best represents a book? jeff recently talked to a man whose job is to do just that. >> brown: book lovers and you know who you are will recognize the covers of numerous books who appeared in the last decade from issues of classical writers to new novels and works of non-fiction. the man who designs the covers is stepping forward with two books of his own, one that investigates the act of reading called "what we see when we read" and second a compendium of his work and thoughts about it entitled "cover." peter mendelsund is the associate art director. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> brown: how do you see the job? >> the job is to represent the author's words. we read the manuscript when we get it and try to find some way of translating those words into a visual that can sort of bear the weight of the narrative. >> brown: i shouldn't be surprised that you actually read it, but you do a deep reading of the book. >> yeah. it's a serious responsibility, and i like to read the work as closely as i can. it's very important to me that the cover that ends up on the book not be in some way dissident with the author's project as a whole. >> brown: you write about reading in a different way. you're looking for different things than i would be as a general reader. >> it's an extreme process in reading as a designer. i'm interested in visual emblems or occasions in a book i can translate into something visual. it could be a scene, a character, it could be a metaphor itself, but just anything in the text that could be made visual and then that thing can be sort of a vessel that the whole book can be poured into. >> brown: when you say you bear the responsibility, that goes to do we judge a book by its cover, right? you're coming between the author and potential readers. >> it's a very serious responsibility. i feel a tremendous amount of guilt when i get it wrong. it's important to me and my responsibility to the author to make sure they're comfortable with the thing that wraps their -- their baby. >> brown: have you developed a theory about what makes a great cover and vice versa? >> i would say there's two answers to that question. one is a great cover is, as i said, a cover that really does a great job of representing that particular story, but, of course, a great cover is also a cover that sells a book well. >> brown: yeah. and my theory about what sells a book well is not a popular theory, but i think any cover that looks very different from all the covers around it, that cover is going to draw your eye. so if all the covers on the table are colorful and you make a white cover, it may seem bland by itself, but that white cover, just by virtue of being different, will draw your eye and draw you to it. >> brown: i want to give an example. one of the biggest sellers in your successes is steve larson books. why did that work? >> well, i have another theory is if you make something pretty enough, it doesn't matter what it looks like, people will want it. i think this is an extremely violent murder mystery and the cliches for jacketing the books are shadowy guys, trench coats, murder weapons, a lot of blood. you put blood on any kind of jacket image and it will signal it's a crime novel. in this case, there's no blood and it is delicately wrought and the color is very unusual, a very bright day glow yellow. and i think that kind of proves my point was that it just looked so different and, hopefully, was visually appealing enough that when you were in a book store and saw it, at the very least, you would come a little closer to it, close of like a mag pie, you just wanted t to pick it up. >> brown: did you know it away or did sales tell you you succeeded? >> it was an arduous process coming up with the cover, i did probably 50 versions. >> brown: is that normal? sometimes lightning strikes away and you have your eureka moments but i do as much work i feel i need to do to do the job. and even after it's made, there was hemming and hawing about whether it was the right cover, which just proves you can never get consensus on these things. but i was happy with it. ip not sure if it's a good cover by association or whether it's generally a good cover, but i'm proud of it, for what it's worth. >> brown: in what we'll call the smaller book, you asked the question what we see when we read. you're actually talking about what we see, what we imagine, and i'm wondering, we're in a visual culture, now, and this obviously ties to the kind of work you do as a designer of covers. >> that's right. it occurred to me at some point i was plucking, as i said, these sort of visions out of an author's work and it occurred to me it was a strange process. it wasn't quite the way i think i imagined it an the way i had imagined it is the way most people imagines it which is the author provides you their vision of a particular world that's populated by particularly characters and you read about them and you see the author's people and places, then you close the book and it's over. and the strange thing is really, i realized when i started to examine these kind of visions, the author's prompts weren't mattering that much. he might say anna has black hair, is tightly curled. i'm picturing whatever the closest analog i can come up with to the woman tolstoy very narrowly describes to us and that might be a teacher of mine from grade school, turns out when you examine the process and parse it, we all co-create the book along with the writer. >> brown: do you think all of this is changing because of the changing technology, a changing society that is more visual, perhaps, than print oriented? >> in a way it makes this idea of imagining things for ourselves this kind of nebulous anand this world where we're bombarded with visual stimuli, there are very few places other than dreaming that we get a feeling of occupying a metaphysical realm. so it's special this that regard. we text pictures to each other, see pictures on the internet and everything is visual. so it's nice to think of this more, as i put it, kind of amophous place. it becomes more precious. >> brown: what we see when we read and covers. peter mendelsund. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> ifill: we have a photo gallery of peter mendelsund's work, on our art beat page. again, the major developments of the day: ukraine accused russia of invading its territory, the u.s. and other powers said moscow has "outright lied" about its actions, but president obama ruled out a military response. the president also tried to tamp down talk of military action against islamic state fighters in syria. he said, "we don't have a strategy" yet. the world health organization reported the death toll in the west african ebola outbreak rose above 1,550. could be 20,000 cases in the months ahead. on the newshour online right now: the artist who's wrapped entire islands and bridges in bright fabric now wants to cover a 42-mile stretch of the arkansas river with a curtain of translucent silver. but the project, titled "over the river," is on pause due to legal challenges from groups that say it will damage the environment. in the meantime you can see drawings of what this art installation will look like, on our art beat page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, we'll look at zmapp the experimental drug protocol that is being used in very limited amounts to treat ebola. i'm gwen ifill. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> charles schwab, proud supporter of the "pbs newshour." >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> this is "nightly business report." >> global tensions, the conflict in ukraine flares up again, pressuring stocks, overshadowing better economic data here at home. and that isn't the only event overseas investors need to watch. bounce, a key indicator of the housing market health rises, but there may be more to that report than meets the eye. and minimize the impact. worried about the hack attack on jpmorgan? some steps you can take to protect yourself and your small business. we have all that and more tonight on "nightly business report" for thursday, august 28. >> good evening, everyone. tyler is off tonight. a tug of war on wall street today as investors weighed encouraging data about the u.s. economy against
corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support is provided by: and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by mtj station from viewers like you. thank you. from the tisch wnet studios in lincoln center in new york, hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: good evening. thanks for joining us. isis has executed one of the two japanese hostages it was holding in syria. images released online today by the islamic extremist group purportedly show the beheading of haruna yukawa, a 42-year-old unemployed man who went to syria in july and was captured the next month. the japanese prime minister, shinzo abe, called the execution, "an outrageous and unforgivable act." isis is threatening to kill the second japanese hostage kenji goto, a 47-year-old journalist, unless jordanian authorities release a man they are holding. isis had previously demanded that a $200 million ransom be paid. following the collapse of the government in yemen, efforts by the c.i.a. and the u.s. joint special operations command to combat terrorism reportedly have suffered a setback. the "washington post" reports that the obama administration has been forced to suspend certain operations because of losses suffered by government forces there. those forces helped american drones target extremists. you'll recall that the recent terror attacks in paris were organized by al qaeda in the arabian peninsula which is based in southern yemen. spain today announced the arrest of four terror suspects. authorities described them as" highly radicalized and highly trained." the two pairs of brothers, were taken into custody in the spanish territory of sayota, which borders morocco. a police official said they were of moroccan origin but held spanish citizenship. he said there were many parallels with the brothers who attacked the offices of the french satiric newspaper "charlie hebdo." a 19-year-old from a denver suburb has been sentenced to four years in prison after pleading guilty to charges that she tried to help isis. shannon conley was arrested in april while trying to board a plane for turkey. she had planned to continue on to syria to marry a fighter there whom she had met online. the judge, who imposed the sentence, said it was meant to deter others from trying to aid the terror group. the president and first lady left today on an official visit to india. even before they departed, the white house announced that the trip would be cut short so the president can visit saudi arabia on the way back, to pay his respects and offer condolences to the family of the late king abdullah and to meet with his successor. in ukraine, at least 29 people were killed and almost 100 others wounded after a barrage of rockets fired by pro-russian rebels hit a crowded, open-air market and a nearby neighborhood. the incident occurred in the port city of mariupol, near crimea. that's the area russia forcibly annexed last spring. fighting intensified this week and the rebels announced a new offensive, even though a ceasefire was announced last september. the fighting in eastern ukraine near russia has claimed more than 5,000 lives. we'll have more on the escalating conflict in ukraine later in the program. gas prices continue to plummet. the a.a.a. reports that gas is now being sold for under $2 a gallon at about 60% of gas stations across the united states. the average price is about $2.04. that's the least expensive it has been in six years. the department of energy predicted last week that the average american household will spend about $750 less on gas this year compared to last. two marines have been killed in a helicopter crash during a military training exercise. the incident occurred late yesterday afternoon at the base in twentynine palms california about 120 miles east of los angeles. authorities are investigating the cause of the crash. peggy charren, has died. her decades of activism led to passage of a federal law requiring tv stations to air educational programming for children. she said her campaign had been inspired by watching what she described as "wall-to-wall monster cartoons" with her daughter. the group she founded, action for children's television, is also credited with getting broadcast networks to cut advertising time on saturday morning programming and to halt the advertising of sugar-coated vitamins for kids. and ernie banks, affectionately known as "mr cub," has died. the hall of fame, power-hitting shortstop became the first african-american member of the team in the fall of 1953. he went on to hit 512 home runs, was a two-time national league mvp, and played in 14 all-star games. in 2013, president obama presented ernie banks with the presidential medal of freedom, citing his good cheer, his optimism and his eternal faith that someday the cubs would go all the way. the team last won the world series in 1908. he is also remembered for his signature expression, "let's play 2," a comment he reportedly first uttered on a 105-degree day in chicago. ernie banks was 83 years old. >> sreenivasan: for more about today's beheading of one japanese hostage and japan's efforts to free the second, we are joined now by hajime ozaki he is the new york bureau chief of the kyodo news agency. so what steps did the japanese government take to try and free this particular hostage or what are they still doing to to get the next one? >> i believe that the japanese government is trying all its effort to release mr. kenji goto, the second hostage, so there are channels including neighboring countries, countries to isis, and then jordan and so on. >> sreenivasan: there's been some concern that this is in retaliation to the prime minister's visit to the middle east region pledging another $200 million for counter measures against isil, but also humanitarian support. >> correct. the prime minister last week visited cairo and issued that statement that the japanese is trying to help the refugees and neighboring countries to isis, which are fighting with the threat of isis. apparently isis seized the moment of the prime minister abe's statement, and the ransom that they demanded coincides with the amount of the money that prime minister abe pledged to humanitarian assistance. >> sreenivasan: so is there any chance japan would pay the ransom? back in the late 70s, there was an incident in bangladesh and there was some question about an incident in the late 90s in kyrgyzstan. was there an official government policy that said they wouldn't pay? >> the official government policy is to comply with the kind of international norm, not to bend to the threats of the terrorists. so it is understood that the japanese government is not ready to pay the ransom. but everything may be possible. but on the other hand, now isis changed their demand from the ransom to the release of the hostage taken in jordan. >> sreenivasan: so what has the reaction been in japan over the past few days? obviously, this news broke so late at night that most japanese were asleep and they won't know until tomorrow morning and & that will be the reaction to this hostage's assassination. but over the past several days, as this story has been building in japan, what's it been like? >> of course most of the japanese population are very much concerned and worried about the fate of the two hostages and there was a press conference by one of the it's mother of one of the hostages the other day, and it-- her appeal to free the-- free her son was widely appreciated and a lot of compassion grown in japanese society. >> sreenivasan: all right. >> on the other hand, there are some senseiments in certain people in japan that the guys went to syria knowing that there are risks and there are some voices that blame the behavior-- >> sreenivasan: that they engaged in risky behavior. >> correct. >> sreenivasan: hajime ozaki thank you very much. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: and now to our signature segment. tonight, the debate about employer background checks. how far back should they go? it's more than a personal issue. because a growing body of evidence suggests that anyone with a criminal record, even for a minor offense committed long ago, is much more likely to live in poverty. and tens of millions of americans have some sort of criminal record. the newshour's stephen fee recently traveled to philadelphia and has our report. >> reporter: every afternoon, at his dining room table, 35-year- old ronald lewis does his homework. by day, he's a student, learning to fix heating and air conditioning systems, and he looks after his three kids. he also works the nightshift running high-pressure boilers at a chemical plant here in his hometown philadelphia. >> i'm a father. i'm a hard worker. i'm very ambitious. >> reporter: he's also got a criminal record. a decade ago, lewis had two major run-ins with the law that he says have interfered with his job prospects ever since. in august 2004, he was picked up during a drug arrest alongside his brother. lewis was carrying a 9 millimeter handgun. days later, he was nabbed for stealing a pocketbook from a department store. so what was that like-- and what happened at that stage after they arrested you? >> it was life changing. but it wasn't a good feeling. it wasn't a good feeling because you felt like you disappointed your family and you disappointed your mother, which is the most important person in my life. >> reporter: on the suggestion of his lawyer, lewis took a deal. for both cases, he pled guilty to a total of three misdemeanors and was sentenced to five years probation. no jail time. at that time, were you worried at all about how this might impact your future? >> no. because the lawyer had told me, "it's only a misdemeanor. it's never gonna hurt you. don't even worry about it." so no. i really didn't think that much into it at that point. >> reporter: a short time later, lewis began looking for new work. he was overjoyed when he got a tentative job offer from a building company. >> i worked there for about a month, was honest with them. told them, you know, what was on my record. they still hired me. we're working. so i work there about a month. they called me in the office and said, "your record came back. we've got to let you go." >> reporter: and that was it? even though you had disclosed everything? you were never dishonest in the hiring process? >> never dishonest. never. they looked so scared of me-- it was a shame. >> reporter: what do you mean? >> when they-- we got to get you out of here. we've got to get you off the premises. >> reporter: lewis says that scenario played out over and over again. later on, he had two offers that were then revoked. he had promising phone calls with another company that went nowhere. he says the only explanation he received: the existence of crimes in his past. four of those companies declined to discuss lewis' case with us. there are people who are going to watch this, and they're going to say, "you know what? you weren't a kid. you were 25. you were an adult. you knew what you were doing. and that this is a consequence-- this is a consequence of your actions." >> if you show me one person that hasn't made a mistake, then i won't apply nowhere else. >> reporter: nine in ten companies in the u.s. conduct background checks and with rap sheets widely available online, advocates say people with criminal backgrounds, sometimes just an arrest record, no conviction, are being blocked from employment. they say it's driving a growing number of people into poverty. and that ronald lewis' case is hardly unique. >> it's very common. we see clients come in with variations of his story on a daily basis. >> reporter: sharon dietrich is now ronald lewis' lawyer. she didn't represent him in the original criminal cases. she's also the litigation director at community legal services of philadelphia. she's been there for nearly thirty years. >> we serve the low-income community of philadelphia, basically unemployed and low- wage workers in philadelphia. and it's the single most common reason people come to us for help is because they have a criminal record that has been keeping them from getting a job. >> reporter: last year, the "wall street journal," using data from the university of south carolina, reported that americans with a criminal conviction by age 23 have higher unemployment rates, make less money, and are twice as likely to end up in poverty as their peers. >> the re(c+uv s that with the rise of technology and really with the proliferation of background checks in this nation in really every walk of life from employment to housing a criminal record now carries often lifelong barriers to basic building blocks of economic security. >> reporter: rebecca vallas is a lawyer and poverty expert at the left-leaning center for american progress in washington. she and sharon dietrich, ronald lewis' lawyer, published a report last year linking poverty and criminal backgrounds, especially among black men. >> the fact is that between 70- 100 million americans, and that's nearly one in three of us, has some type of criminal record. and so it's really an incredibly pervasive problem that impacts whole segments of our community. but it-- this issue also really disproportionately impacts communities of color. >> reporter: employers say they aren't just shutting out everyone with a criminal past-- they're being careful and complying with guidelines from the federal equal employment opportunity commission meant to give people second chances. that's according to beth milito at the national federation of independent businesses which represents 350,000 small businesses. a cynical part of me says, "hey if i sat down and, boy, it looks like someone's got a criminal record and then i've got another candidate who doesn't, i'm gonna go with the guy who doesn't have the criminal record," right? >> maybe, maybe not. i think it depends on the nature of the job. the equal employment opportunity commission issued new guidance in april of 2012. and it reiterates that where at all possible it's good for a business to consider three factors: the nature of the crime, the time that's elapsed since the crime and the nature of the job. and when at all possible to make an individualized assessment. and i think many employers will do that. >> reporter: dozens of cities, including philadelphia, along with thirteen states, have passed so-called ban the box measures that basically ban that little check box on job applications asking about your criminal history. but vallas and dietrich's report for the center for american progress wants to go a step further, and seal low-level nonviolent criminal offenses that took place more than ten years ago. according to rebecca vallas, the data show that after a decade, nonviolent offenders are no more likely to commit a crime than anyone else, so their records shouldn't be part of the hiring process at all. >> we really have policies in place that treat a person as a criminal long after they really pose any significant risk of ever re-offending. and it really doesn't make much sense to be shutting someone out of opportunities to access-- a job for instance, because of misconceptions about who that person might be and the risk that they might pose to public safety. >> reporter: but beth milito at the national federation of independent businesses says employers face major risks, and even potential negligent hiring lawsuits, if a past offender commits a crime on the job. and for small business owners especially, their reputations could be on the line. >> hiring decisions are challenging. and they need this information. they can't turn a blind eye. too much is at risk. they can't turn a blind eye to criminal history. it'd be foolish to. you know, there's people, property at stake. >> reporter: someone might be watching this and they say, "you know what? i wouldn't trust you at my business." how do you defend yourself to that charge? >> what i say to them is it was 2004, and i'm pretty sure if you made a mistake in 2004, you don't know what your mistake was. but mine is documented. so you know what my mistake is. and look at the positive things i've done since 2004. so if you're going to hang your hat on just 2004, then you probably aren't the person i wanna work for anyway. >> reporter: do you think an employer doesn't have the right to know what happened in your past? >> employers should know-- should know who they're hiring. it's fair. you-- you should know. but you should also remember that these are lives we're-- these are people's lives we're talking about. it's like if almost double jeopardy. just look at it like this. i serve my-- i did my probation. no violations. model citizen. i go to school and try to better myself, and i'm-- it's like every time i apply for a job, i feel like i'm committing a crime all over again. >> reporter: lewis has submitted two pardon applications to the state to clear his record, and while both have been rejected, he plans on re-submitting in the near future. >> sreenivasan: should employers doing background checks be blocked from seeing non-violent criminal offenses? take our poll and share your views at pbs.org/newshour. >> sreenivasan: that shelling attack that killed dozens of people today in eastern ukraine was only the latest sign of the deteriorating situation there. even though a ceasefire was signed in september, fighting between pro-russian rebels and ukrainian government troops once again has intensified. and yesterday, the rebels launched a new offensive. for more we are joined via skype by andrew e. kramer of the "new york times." he is reporting tonight from the regional capital of donetsk. so, andrew, for most americans we thought this was a conflict that smfs resolved. there was a cease-fire but it was over but for the past week you have been talking about and reporting on a war on multiple fronts. >> that's right. thank you for having me on the show. conventional wisdom seemed to ahead that the economic crisis in russia would encourage the russian government to take a softer line in eastern ukraine but what we've seen in the last week is quite the opposite. russia, of course, formally does not support the separatist movement here mill taylor. we see statements of support for their actions and a major military escalation. >> sreenivasan: when you say "military escalation" is this similar to crimea where you have unmarked uniformed troops rolling in, in tanks? >> i've seen tanks on the streets of donesk. it's impossible to ascertain where they came from precisely. the rebels have not taken new ground in months and yet they have more military equipment than they did when the cease-fire was signed, at least impressionistically when what i see. the donesk republic claims to be operating separate from russia and the assertion is any russian fighting in ukraine is doing so as an individual, as a volunteer and maybe on vacation but not as an stfer member of the russian army. there has been a very aggressive stance on both sides. there has been shelling from the ukrainian side from the city of donesk. a bus was hit recently with tragic consequences. the other way there has been bombing from the rebel side. of course, there is this disastrous shelling in the city of mariupol. >> sreenivasan: this has been one of the least-effective cease fires in recent history. the u.n. estimates more than 1,000 people have been killed after it was signed and are these rebel forces emboldened by the fact they have this military support coming in from russia? >> i think that's the case. without the russian backing the separatist movement would have crumbled or struck a deal long ago. now they say they want to expand their boundaries and ultimately achieve a more sustainable mini state here in eastern ukraine glarp so what about the leverage that the west has? i mean, the sanctions have been in effect. it's squeezed russia's economy. the price of oil has tumbled. we don't really have any more levers to pull. >> there could be additional sanctions. that seems unlikely given the sanction fatigue in europe. other than that, there's only hand wringing. most western governments have said they will not join this fight militarily, given russia's strategic importance and nuclear weapons. and at this point, there are not a lot of breaks on the rebel movement here in eastern ukraine. we have attacks on the donesk airport, the city of mariupol and a road hub vulnerable. >> sreenivasan: all right, andrew kramer, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: this is pbs newshour weekend saturday. >> sreenivasan: and now to viewers like you, your comments about our recent work. tonight, some of what you had to say about last saturday's signature segment from belgium describing that country's euthanasia laws, the least restrictive in the world. one viewer said: "i've seen patients get great comfort out of simply knowing they have the choice to end their suffering. i am, however, somewhat dubious about using euthanasia on psychiatric patients. not because i doubt their suffering, but because i doubt their mental competency to make a life altering decision." hana sheala added: "i live with muscular dystrophy and i hope euthanasia will not be legal, that there always are alternatives for being self determined even as a vented functional quadriplegic." there was this from lstcaress: "after suffering from severe depression for thirty years and growing tired of being a drugged zombie, i'm appalled i'm not allowed this option." and from michelle a. mead: "my mother and my cat were both dying at the same time. one of them was allowed to die with dignity. it was not my mother." others commented about the provision in the belgian law that allows for terminally ill children to choose euthanasia with their parents consent. briee della rocca added: "i wish we had this in the states. everyone, even children, should be allowed to free themselves from unending pain and terminal conditions where treatment is only torture." beth deroos said: "putting an innocent child to death because medical 'professionals' or parents feel it's best? sorry, but actually executing a child which is what this is, is just so wrong." and finally, there was this, from hillery geelon: "unless you're ever in that situation, no one would ever be able to judge." as always, we welcome your comments at newshour.pbs.org, or on our facebook page, and tweet us @newshour. >> sreenivasan: some more news before we leave you tonight: president obama has strongly condemned the beheading of one of two japanese hostages held by isis in syria. kia is recalling 87,000 of its 2014 forte sedans. the company warns of the risk of fire from a cooling fan part. and parts of atlanta's hartsfield-jackson international airport were closed today after bomb threats were made against two inbound passenger jets. both planes landed safely after being escorted by fighter jets. that's all for tonight. join us on air and on line tomorrow. i'm hari sreenivasan. have a good night. captioning sponsored by wnet captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support is provided by: and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. 15,000 years ago after the last great ice age ended and man first began to live in permanent settlements another species was watching closely from the forest. and they saw us as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. within just a few hundred years, these wolves changed from deadly predators into man's best friend. canis lupus familiaris the very first dogs. this transformation from wild wolf to tame dog proved revolutionary to man. dogs became our hunting partners
a lot of times, they walk through our doors, they don't have that. >> ifill: those are just some of the stories we're covering on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> i've been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. the ones getting involved, staying engaged. they are not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is, "how did i end up here?" i started schwab with those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and... >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ifill: president obama moved today to tamp down talk of imminent military action against islamic state fighters in syria. at the white house, he said his priority is to "roll back" the militants' gain in iraq, where u.s. air strikes are already under way. he said calls to expand the campaign into syria amount to "putting the cart before the horse." >> we don't have a strategy yet. i think what i've seen in some of the news reports suggests that folks are getting a lilt further ahead than we currently are. but there's no point in me asking for action on the part of congress before i know exactly what it is that is going to be required for us to get the job done. >> ifill: separately, there was word that islamic state fighters executed more than 150 soldiers captured in recent fighting. the troops were taken prisoner after militants seized a key airbase in northeastern syria. a video posted on youtube showed a long line of bodies lying face down in the sand. gunmen on the syrian side of the golan heights have detained 43 u.n. peacekeepers from fiji. u.n. officials say it happened during fighting between an unidentified armed group and syrian troops. another 81 peacekeepers-- from the philippines-- were trapped. afterward, u.n. troops kept a close watch on the syrian side of the heights. their mission is to monitor a zone of separation between syrian and israeli forces. j.p. morgan-chase bank has confirmed it's investigating a possible cyber attack, but it says the scope is unclear. "bloomberg news" reported it's part of a series of coordinated and sophisticated attacks by russian hackers. and, "the new york times" reported at least four other banks were also targeted in the last month. the stolen data includes checking and savings account information. a family feud over control of a supermarket chain in new england is finally over. the disagreement, which began in june, spawned worker and customer boycotts that attracted national attention. now, arthur t. demoulas will buy the majority stake in the chain from his cousin for $1.5 billion. he celebrated with employees today in tewksbury, massachusetts. the battle for control ultimately cost the grocery chain millions of dollars in lost revenue. on wall street today, stocks edged lower after the latest spark in the ukraine crisis. the dow jones industrial average lost 42 points to close at 17,079. the nasdaq slipped nearly 12 points to close at 4,557. and the s&p 500 dropped three points to 1,996. the national football league is getting tougher on domestic violence. commissioner roger goodell announced today players will be suspended for six games for a first offense. they'll be banned outright if it happens a second time. goodell was criticized when he suspended the baltimore ravens' ray rice for just two weeks for allegedly hitting his fianceée. today, he acknowledged he "didn't get it right." still to come on the newshour: russian troops advance into ukraine, speeding up human trials of a new ebola vaccine, providing for unaccompanied child migrants, reinventing chicago's community colleges, and, the creative process behind designing bold and iconic book covers. >> ifill: the crisis in ukraine intensified today as the government in kiev accused russia of an outright invasion. hari sreenivasan reports. >> we can confirm that russian military boots are on ukrainian ground. >> sreenivasan: the cries of invasion came from ukraine's prime minister arseniy yatseniuk and from president petro poroshenko, who announced, "russian forces have entered ukraine." >> ( translated ): amateur mercenaries along with employed russian servicemen are trying to organize a counter-offensive against positions of our armed forces. without any doubts, the situation is extraordinarily difficult, but it is controllable. >> sreenivasan: the ukrainians charged russian soldiers and armor are helping rebels open a new front in the southeast. kiev confirmed the rebels have captured the town of novoazovsk on the azov sea-- leaving the port city of mariupol suddenly vulnerable to attack. ukraine's government said images from novoazovsk showed a russian tank on the streets. and nato released its own satellite images, showing russian self-propelled artillery units on ukrainian roads. the alliance said well over 1,000 russian troops have crossed the border-- and warned of more to come. >> these latest imagery provides concrete examples of russian activity inside ukraine, but they are only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the overall scope of russian troop and weapons movements. >> sreenivasan: earlier this week, ukraine had released a video showing what it said were russian servicemen captured on its territory. and today, the rebel "prime minister" acknowledged several thousand russians are fighting with the rebels on their own time. >> ( translated ): among volunteers from russia there have always been many retired military servicemen. there are also currently serving soldiers among us who preferred to spend their vacations not on sea beaches, but among us, among brothers fighting for their freedom. >> sreenivasan: the spike in tensions prompted angry words at the u.n. security council. u.s. ambassador samantha power blasted previous russian denials of complicity. >> at every step, russia has come before this council to say everything except the truth. it has manipulated, it has obfuscated, it has outright lied. so we have learned to measure russia by its actions and not by its words. >> sreenivasan: in turn, russian ambassador vitaly churkin dismissed the accusations, without directly denying anything. >> ( translated ): everyone knows that there are russian volunteers in eastern parts of ukraine, no one is hiding that. we'd like to see similar transparency shown by other countries. i would suggest that we send a message to washington. stop interfering in the internal affairs of sovereign states. stop trying to undermine a regime that you don't like-- >> we are not taking military action to solve the ukrainian problem. what we're doing is to mobilize the international community to apply pressure on russia. but i think it is very important to recognize that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming. >> brown: the president argued pressure from existing and possibly new sanctions will take an increasing toll on russia even if it's not apparent now. for more on what's happening on the ground in ukraine, joined by andrew kramer from the "new york times" from donetsk. you were visiting a town where the russian troops were streaming in. describe that scene to us. >> this is in a down o town on . we were standing on the outside of the town speaking with ukrainian soldiers retreating. the soldiers were convinced they were fighting the russians, at least many were. we didn't see the troops coming in, but they were said to have come across the border from russia into ukraine. it was a very chaotic scene. in fact, a day later, that town was seize bid the pro-russian forces. >> brown: you also spoke of locals in the area. what did they think about what's happening. >> people who support the russian cause are cheered by the development. the revolution had been on its last legs in the last few weeks and now there's been a reversal of the fortunes, a turning of the tide here. the separatists and, according to ukrainian government, with the support of russia has moved across the russian border and has now opened a new front in the south along the seashore with the cities onovasosk and mario pal as the objectives. the intention is to form a defensive triangle out of the two cities in donetsk and force the ukrainian government into settlement talks on more favorable terms. >> sreenivasan: you're in donetsk now. what's the impact there on what's happening in the other towns? >> in donetsk, little has changed. an artillery barrage killed two today, hitting residential areas. the ukrainian government is keeping up pressure on donetsk. the assumption is forces will be diverted from here to the south to address this new risk and new push by pro russian and possibly with the support of russian supporters coming in across the border. that's the hope of the separatists in this town. it's a setback for the ukrainians who hope to end the war quickly and on their terms. >> sreenivasan: can you feel a level of intention increasing or decreasing from the events in the past weeks? >> the tension is certainly increasing particularly in the towns and villages affected. we drove along a 75-mile stretch of highway from here in donetsk to the area where the battle is taking place and it was almost wholly deserted. you would see only a few cars carrying refugees, burned-out military vehicles and people who were very concerned, obviously, about this new development and the violence which is coming to their communities. >> sreenivasan: is there a cognition of what's happening and how the rest of the world is paying attention? do the people in ukraine, the ones that you speak with, care about what's happening at n.a.t.o. or whether this is called an invasion or incursion? >> people in the areas that have been shelled are mostly concerned about everyday concerns like fetching water and food and staying out of the way of danger. there is certainly, among the rebels, a larger understanding of the context of this war and this conflict. ukraine has now said -- the president of ukraine has said today that russia invaded, n.a.t.o. was more cautious saying russia had carried out an incursion into ukraine. in any case, what's clearly happening here is across border military action in europe and the consequences are very unpredictable. >> sreenivasan: andrew kramer from "new york times" joining us from donetsk. thanks so much. >> thank you. >> brown: i'm joint by andrew weiss, a director of russian ukrainian and eurasian affairs at the white house national security council and now with the carnegie endowment andrei tegoncof and, a political science and international relations professor at san francisco state university. andrew weiss, how do you describe what's going on and who are the russian soldiers? >> i think the russians are disguising their moments so we may have a new front on the southeastern border between russia and ukraine and a russian attempt to create a land bridge between the russian border and crimea, which will allow them to supply crimea more effectively in the future. >> brown: do you use the word invasion, incursion? >> there's a game played in washington where u.s. officials are trying hard not to use the word invasion so you have the state department spokesman saying it's an incursion. the reason for that is u.s. officials, as president obama said today, said they're trying to avoid any perception there's oust military response in the offing so they're downplaying what's happened, but privately people are worried what we're seeing is a dramatic escalation. >> brown: andrei tegoncof, what do you call it? >> i would call it an escalation as andrew weiss described the second front opening and this is something that's been going on quite some time. we have seen the russia assistance before and this is not news. what's new is the ukrainian side is beginning to lose on the front and the russian president has not gotten what he expected to get and germany is pressuring kiev for peaceful solutions. in addition to russia's escalation, ukraine, kiev is launching a p.r. offense against russia. >> brown: you're seeing this as coming from weakness by the ukrainians as opposed to more aggression by the russians? >> i see both, but russia's intervention is not something that has happened just now. russia has been assisting the eastern rebels before. russian volunteers, we know previous commanders of donetsk and luhansk and primarily donetsk were russian citizens. so russia was certainly involved and makes sense, if russia sees itself as a great power to be involved, so it has been taking place quite some time. this was a new speech. we also see that ukraine is trying to launch a p.r. offensive against russia. >> brown: andrew weiss, ukraine has had a stronger military in many ways which would counteract what weiss is saying. >> it looked like the separatists were cornered into strong holds in donetsk and luhansk, and the question is putin cornered? and putin talks about chasing rats in a building he grew up in and he cornered the rat and discovered the rat will attack. patton at various terms in the crisis has chosen to escalate and he's done that once again. >> brown: so you're seeing this differently from the description we've heard. this is russia reacting? >> i don't think putin is to mount a full scale invasion of ukraine but we're seeing they're not willing to lose and when it looks like the ukrainians are poised to do too much too quickly the russians raise the stakes and that's where we are today. >> brown: andrei tegoncof, what's your response? go ahead. >> i don't disagree. i think russia is raising the stakes. remember russia is raising the stakes in response to the ukrainians raising the stakes. ukrainians have anti-terrorist stipulations, searching for a military solution to the conflict, and the russians will see this as a need to restore balance of power. for them, this is a necessity to negotiate better i political conditions for their interests and values. they have major interests for ukraine wants to be a member of n.a.t.o. and join the european union. they have interests to protect russian language speakers there, those who gravitate toward russia, and this is something that they will be willing to defend if necessary by military means. >> brown: andrew weiss, just before we started, you heard word of a new pronouncement or a news announcement, was it, from putin? >> what seems to be happening is andrew kramer from the "new york times" talked about is this russian incursion into ukraine has caused disruption and soldiers are evacuating in a pall mall environment. the russian putin issued a statement 1:00 a.m. moscow time calling on the rebels not to kill the ukrainian soldiers who are now encircled. he said, open a humanitarian corridor. these people are forced to fight, let them go home to their families. it's not clear what's going on on the ground if there is a significant risk that ukrainian forces are going to be ground up by the new russian forces introduce. but it's striking putin is sending out commands via press release, suggesting the situation is very messy and uncontrolled. >> brown: can you comment on that and the sense of whether russias and mr. putin are feeling any impact of the american sanctions so far, whether the pressure from the west is having any impact? >> let me make one observation about the situation in ukraine. certainly russians who are assisting the rebels and the rebels were losing until recently, but a week ago they began a counteroffensive and that's what's happening today. thousands of ukrainian troops are encircled. that's not sufficiently reported in western media but is something that helps putin to negotiate better conditions. this is one of the reasons why he felt so confident in minsk and one of the reasons he did not feel he would need to negotiate poroshenko because poroshenko already nose the conditions and the ball in many ways is in his court. russia can wait until the fall and possibly winter whether it will also be able to use energy weapons and in the meantime the solution is only a political one. this is something, russia recognizes this, the european union, angela merkel, barack obama recognizes this. so it's essential to move in this direction. >> brown: andrew weiss andrei tegoncof and, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> ifill: there were new numbers and a bleak projection today on the ebola outbreak in west africa. at the same time, it appears human trials will begin for a possible vaccine as soon as next week. the ominous forecast came from the world health organization: ebola cases could top 20,000 as the outbreak continues to spread. >> it is now, as you know, really a multinational effort, three countries, heavily affected, not just remote isolated areas where you can rapidly contain, but we are dealing with this disease in large, urban environments and over large geographic areas. this is very unique. >> ifill: so far, the u.n. agency has confirmed more than 3,000 cases. of that number, more than half have died-- in liberia, sierra leone, guinea and nigeria. but the w.h.o says the outbreak could spread to ten other countries. to contain the virus, the agency announced a $490 million strategic plan for the next nine months. >> when we look at the numbers of people to make this work, we are going to need 750 internationals at least and 12,000 nationals, not in capital that is very difficult in the current environment, but that is the scale of manpower needed to do this. >> ifill: the "current environment" includes a sizeable fear factor, especially in liberia, the country with the most ebola cases and deaths. doctors without borders opened a treatment facility in the liberian capital, monrovia, two weeks ago, but its 120 beds are already full. >> the healthcare system has more or less broken down. hospitals have closed, the clinics are closed, some of them have reopened but the staff is afraid to go back because they are afraid to get the disease. >> ifill: in desperation, liberian officials quarantined monrovia's west point neighborhood and armed police have used live ammunition to stop residents from getting out. the medical emergency has also placed a heavy economic strain on affected countries. the african development bank is urging an end to trade and travel restrictions. >> markets are not functioning, airlines are not coming in, projects are being cancelled, business people have left, that is very, very damaging. >> ifill: adding to the difficulty: a different strain of ebola has appeared in the democratic republic of congo, causing 13 deaths so far. here at home, the national institutes of health announced today it will start testing an experimental ebola vaccine next week. for more on that development, i'm joined by dr. anthony fauci, director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases at n.i.h, he'll oversee those trials. dr. fauci, thanks for joining us again. what would trials like this look like? first of all, it's an early phase one trial, meaning this is the first time this vaccine has been put in humans so safety is paramount, so you take a very small number of people, 20 total, three at a time, and you use the vaccine to determine if there are untoward effects any inflammation, hypersensitivity, pain or anything that might be a red flag about safety, and also you learn whether it induces the kind of response in a person that you would hope would be protective against ebola infection. the reason we chose this vaccine is it showed very favorable results in an animal model, a monkey model, in which it protected monkeys very well against a challenge with lethal ebola. so this is a first, because this is the first time this has been in a human, in now what would be a series of steps to ultimately develop it to determine if, in fact, it is effective. >> ifill: this has been in development for some time. you called this an "uncontrolled outbreak" in west africa. dr. tom frieden for the c.d.c. said it will get worse before better. is it this west african outbreak moving this from development to trial? >> we have been working on an ebola vaccine for a number of years, now. this has been one of the priorities, the hemorrhagic fevers of which ebola is actually the worst of those. this is kind of the culmination of a process of developing it, but it was certainly accelerated by what we're seeing now with this extraordinary outbreak in certain west african countries. so we were on the track of an ebola vaccine, but we accelerated it. we didn't cut corners but we really put the afterburners on to get things done much more quickly so that we could get to the point where, next week, we'll put this first time in a human, in a normal volunteer right here in our clinical center in bethesda. >> ifill: we've spent time trying to figure out zmapp. this plan would be working with glaxglaxosmithkline. does that make a difference in the timetable how quickly we would see it come to market if it worked? >> gwen, it makes an extraordinary amount of difference. it really is the game changer. when you have a company like glaxosmithkline who partners fully with the n.i.h., with our science and their capability of producing this, that's how you get things done and, in fact, one of the reasonshy we had not gotten the vaccine up to now or even drugs is that there was relatively little interest on the part of many pharmaceutical companies for even drugs or vaccines, and i think the extraordinary dramatic situation which we're going through right now is really going to get people's attention and we'll see a lot more interest in that which i'm very pleased about because we really do need a vaccine and therapeutics. >> ifill: because ebola is such a dangerous virus, how do you assure the safety not only for those taking it in the trial but also for those handling the virus? >> that's a good question. it's important to point out there's no chance of the vaccine giving ema to anyone because we're not giving them an ebola virus. we're giving them a vaccine that has a very small component of the genetic material from ebola that the that would make a protein that is again an important component of the virus but not a virus that can actually replicate. so there's no chance -- when we say "safety" which is the first part of phase one, we're not talking about safety of giving someone ebola, we're talking about safety of an adverse reaction to the vaccine itself. that's an important difference. >> ifill: we're talking about the pocket of 20,000 cases before this thing begins to subside. how do we know the vaccine is the right solution or even are they the right solution? >> a great question because the solution, right now, is what we know can stop an outbreak and that is the ability and the infrastructure to deliver infection control by isolation, by quarantine, by contact tracing and by protecting the healthcare workers with proper personal protective equipment. the difficulty in those west african countries is they don't have that kind of infrastructure in place, and it's truly a struggle to be able to do that kind of infection control. historically, under other circumstances, there have been now about 24 outbreaks of ebola usually in geographically-restricted areas where it was much easier to contain it. you can contain it with good hospital and infection control capabilities. >> ifill: dr. anthony fauci at the national institutes of health. thank you very much. >> you're quite welcome. >> ifill: the u.s. border patrol has apprehended nearly 63,000 unaccompanied children at the southwest border just this year. many of them are then relocated to various cities across the country, creating a growing need for healthcare and education. judy woodruff recently visited a d.c.-based organization that is providing some of that support. >> woodruff: when maria gomez was 13 years old, she and her mother emigrated to the united states from colombia, after her political activist father was murdered. the two settled in washington d.c., where gomez grew up in the midst of a burgeoning latino community. seeing the difficult time many were having, in 1988, gomez gave up her job as a nurse to open mary's center, a place for pregnant latina women to receive free or low-cost prenatal care. many of these women had come to the u.s. to escape poverty and civil war in countries like el salvador. 26 years later, a much expanded mary's center is on the front lines of providing an array of services to an influx of central american families and children. already this year, nearly 6,000 unaccompanied minors from central america have crossed the u.s. border and been released to sponsors in virginia, d.c. and maryland. mary's center alone has received more than 500 of the unaccompanied children over the past few weeks, putting a serious strain on its resources. since its founding, the organization has grown enormously, in order to address the needs of children and adults who've received little or no formal education and many of whom don't speak english. mary's center now offers schooling and social services, in addition to medical care. a few days ago, i visited one of mary's center's four locations in the washington area and spoke with its president and founder maria gomez. maria gomez, thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: so you have run mary's center for over a quarter of a century since 1988. you have seen families. children, coming into the united states from central america and other places. what are you now seeing how is that incoming of people changing? >> the incoming that we're seeing it's almost the same, but people were coming really fleeing the war back in 1988 from el salvador. now, people are fleeing the gang members who are basically doing pretty much the same-- killing their families. we have one child after another whose families have been killed; their brothers and sisters their mothers, their fathers. yesterday we were at a vigil and one of the boys, a 16-year-old, both of his parents were killed right in front of him, and were threatened that if he did not pay them what he earned and from the rest of the family that was there that he would also be killed. >> woodruff: and these are not an occasional story, you're hearing these regularly, is that right? >> every kid that comes in has a story, whether it was their aunt, their grandmother, their father. many, many men-- the fathers of these children-- have been killed because they refused to give them their daily payments that they earned, and sometimes it's for nothing. at the maximum, two, three, five dollars that these people are making a day anyway. >> woodruff: and how are these children getting here? >> what we're hearing from the families and the kids is that the parents or the family members over there sold pretty much everything they had, the little land they had, whatever they had, the cows, sheep, whatever they had so they could get enough money you know, $5,000. so not only do they now have nothing back home, but now they owe money still to these people. >> woodruff: and you also have young women, girls who are being raped? sexually abused on the way? >> many of them, unfortunately because of the gang activities particularly in honduras, the individuals, the young women are being raped even back home. so they're fleeing, they're fleeing many because they'll there's a 50/50 chance that they will cross the border alive than there is a chance to be living back home where they can either be submissive to the abuse or they get killed. >> woodruff: but once they're in the united states there's a good chance they'll be deported back to their home country, what do they face if they go back? >> death is really what they're facing because once an individual becomes a wage-earner they are threatened daily for their wages or they will be killed. that's basically, that's the option they have at this point. that is why you know many parents are taking the risk of actually sending kids as young as nine and eleven years of age across the north. >> woodruff: so you're dealing with families with children who've seen trauma. what're you seeing and how do you deal with it? >> so right now the biggest >> some of them have gotten pregnant. some of them come to relatives, what we're seeing when they come to relatives they go through another trauma. because the relatives realize they cannot afford to have them in their apartment, they realize that they're sort of nuisance, an extra. many of the kids come with the aspiration of coming to school because they've never been to school, some of those kids have never been to school because it's too dangerous. one girl was telling us that they actually killed one of her friends and left body parts on the way to give her the message that if she went to school that would happen to her unless she became part of the gang group. >> woodruff: where does the money come from to take care of all this? >> so right now it's costing us over $800 to take care of these kids. >> woodruff: a person. >> every person because we're not only taking care of the medical piece but the mental health and the dental health and when you add all those things together we can get bills as high as $1,300, $1,500 per person when you start dealing with that. but the basic health care right now is about $800 per person because we have to do special tests now for kids as young as nine years of age for s.t.ds, for h.i.v, that we wouldn't otherwise do that that young right? >> woodruff: and do you feel you're able to address the need? are you able to do what needs to be done? >> we have the staffing, we have the staff to be able to do that even if it means we extend hours we have the psychologist, the psychiatrists, the medical staff to do that we have the capacity. i think what's concerning now is that right now we're running as of the end of july up to now we've racked up almost $400,000 worth of free care that we've given because these individuals are not able to pay. >> woodruff: the stories you tell and that they tell are so powerful, but yet there are still people in the united states who say, "we're very sympathetic we wish it weren't this way, but we first have to pay attention to problems in our own country. we can't receive people who are suffering from all around the world." what do you say to those people? >> i totally understand what they are saying, but i also know this land has an opportunity, this is how we were created to take people from all over the world. what i say to people who talk about the fact that we can't take on and we have so many people that we have to still take care of. i often wonder are we really as a community, i'm an american now i have a u.s. passport. are we really taking care of the poorest and the most vulnerable in this country? that when we're given an opportunity we as americans always pay it back and that is what i think what we need to look forward to. >> woodruff: maria gomez, mary's center, we thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you very much for the opportunity. >> ifill: next, for years, community colleges in america have opened their doors to everyone, offering a huge variety of courses at a fraction of the cost. but with only 5% of community college students graduating on time, should the schools be revamped? the city of chicago believes so, and has hired a controversial chancellor who has her own story of transformation. hari is back with the next in our series on "rethinking college". these are all natural science classes. >> sreenivasan: cheryl knows these hallways better than most. after all, she walked them some 20 years ago as a community college student. >> let's see if i can recognize any of my old classrooms. >> all righty. >> sreenivasan: today, she walks as the boss. in 2010, heimen was asked by chicago's mayor to leave a lucrative job at the utility giant commonwealth edison to become chancellor of city colleges of chicago, one of the largest community college systems in the country. >> this is how much closer we need to get to the starting. >> sreenivasan: heimen manages a budget of $650 million, overseas, hundreds of employees and seven college campuses. her task was to turn around a dismal record. only 7% of the 115,000 students were graduating. >> good luck and thanks for attending city colleges of chicago. >> sreenivasan: like many students at city colleges of chicago, heimen had a challenging childhood. >> how are you? appy birthday! >> sreenivasan: raised in chicago's public housing by parents addicted to drugs, she left home at age 17, dropped out of high school and, for a time, became homeless. against the odds, heimen returned to school, getting her high school diploma, a bachelor's degree and an nba from northwestern universities prestigious kellogg school of management. how important is it for someone sitting in that sort of prospective student's chair to say here's a woman who came through the housing authority, went through corporate america and she's running this place. i can see myself in her shoes? >> i think a lot. i think a lot. what many of our students need more than anything else is hope. a lot of times they walk through our doors and they don't have that. i think, without that, it doesn't matter what type of education we're providing them, they will never think that they can make it out of their circumstances, but they will somehow think that their circumstances dictate their destiny, and i tried very hard to give them that hope that that's not true. that's part of why i came from corporate america and took this job. >> sreenivasan: now heimen hopes to reinvent the city colleges of chicago. >> how do you establish a model which helps you shift the paradigm of how community colleges should be defined? shift the paradigm from institutions that have typically been solely focused on access to those who now couple access is success, and what we mean by "success" is that students are continuing what they came here for in a timely manner and that those credentials are relevant. >> if you think a dna -- >> sreenivasan: currently, only 5% of the 8.3 million students enrolled in community colleges graduate over time. meaning 35 million americans over age 25 have some college credit but no degree. were students coming to city colleges and taking credits they didn't particularly need or wouldn't translate into a job? >> they were. they would come in with a perception of i want to be x, and then they thumb through this huge course catalog to try to put their future together with the limited information and guidance. >> sreenivasan: when heimen arrived at city colleges of chicago she said too many students were taking classes that didn't advance them toward a degree and, as a result, many dropped out. others like shana henderson say they wasted time and money. henderson ended up with 88 credits, 26 more than she needed for her associate's degree. >> i didn't necessarily know how to navigate college and select classes so i took art because i figured that, you know, i liked drawing, but i didn't know necessarily if that will count towards my graduation. >> what's really going to determine when and how often we offer it is students' availability. >> sreenivasan: heimened tripled the number of students advisors and crated course by course career paths for every student. >> we watched pathways toward success which takes what we know to be relevant industries which represent the job market and what four-year institutions look for and taken those and put them in clear semester-by-semester pathways. ♪ >> sreenivasan: new transfer agreements with four-year universities insured college students were taking proper courses towards a bachelor's degree. that seems basic. that seems fundamental. i would expect a city college or any college would have my credits to transfer. >> it does seem very fundamental to you and i, but it was revolutionary when i started talking about it. students would get their associate's degree and transfer and only half their credits would transfer. >> sreenivasan: the changei helped shana henderson transfer to the university of illinois. >> in my family, they always had to take care of family or work, so i think to take it upon myself to have that accomplishment for my family will make us all proud. (cheering) >> sreenivasan: in three years since heimen lost her reinvention campaign graduation rates nearly doubled. the number of degrees awarded jumped from 2,000 to 4,000. but the reinvention of city colleges also met with controversy. heimen with no background in education was under fire from faculty for hiring expense v outside business consultants and at the same time took the drastic move of replacing six out of seven college presidents. >> students have to juggle their schedules. >> sreenivasan: she cut staff, eliminating courses and other cost and took a hard line on labor negotiations to save $51 million. what is the hardest part of changing a cul culture? >> well, the hardest part of change is culture. i think the hardest part of changing culture is you have to convince everybody that you're changing not to hurt them but you're changing so that everybody can have a win-win. >> sreenivasan: heimen's sweeping changes at city colleges of chicago will be watched closely by both critics and supporters as a reinvention plan heads into its fourth year this fall. >> ifill: tomorrow harry looks at >> ifill: tomorrow hari looks at performance funding at public universities. the more students graduate the more money the institution gets from the state. online, read about how an arizona community college is running its campuses like a business and whether its students benefit from being treated like customers-- that's on our education page. finally tonight: some people may judge a book by its cover. but what about creating a cover that best represents a book? jeff recently talked to a man whose job is to do just that. >> brown: book lovers and you know who you are will recognize the covers of numerous books who appeared in the last decade from issues of classical writers to new novels and works of non-fiction. the man who designs the covers is stepping forward with two books of his own, one that investigates the act of reading called "what we see when we read" and second a compendium of his work and thoughts about it entitled "cover." peter mendelsund is the associate art director. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> brown: how do you see the job? >> the job is to represent the author's words. we read the manuscript when we get it and try to find some way of translating those words into a visual that can sort of bear the weight of the narrative. >> brown: i shouldn't be surprised that you actually read it, but you do a deep reading of the book. >> yeah. it's a serious responsibility, and i like to read the work as closely as i can. it's very important to me that the cover that ends up on the book not be in some way dissident with the author's project as a whole. >> brown: you write about reading in a different way. you're looking for different things than i would be as a general reader. >> it's an extreme process in reading as a designer. i'm interested in visual emblems or occasions in a book i can translate into something visual. it could be a scene, a character, it could be a metaphor itself, but just anything in the text that could be made visual and then that thing can be sort of a vessel that the whole book can be poured into. >> brown: when you say you bear the responsibility, that goes to do we judge a book by its cover, right? you're coming between the author and potential readers. >> it's a very serious responsibility. i feel a tremendous amount of guilt when i get it wrong. it's important to me and my responsibility to the author to make sure they're comfortable with the thing that wraps their -- their baby. >> brown: have you developed a theory about what makes a great cover and vice versa? >> i would say there's two answers to that question. one is a great cover is, as i said, a cover that really does a great job of representing that particular story, but, of course, a great cover is also a cover that sells a book well. >> brown: yeah. and my theory about what sells a book well is not a popular theory, but i think any cover that looks very different from all the covers around it, that cover is going to draw your eye. so if all the covers on the table are colorful and you make a white cover, it may seem bland by itself, but that white cover, just by virtue of being different, will draw your eye and draw you to it. >> brown: i want to give an example. one of the biggest sellers in your successes is steve larson books. why did that work? >> well, i have another theory is if you make something pretty enough, it doesn't matter what it looks like, people will want it. i think this is an extremely violent murder mystery and the cliches for jacketing the books are shadowy guys, trench coats, murder weapons, a lot of blood. you put blood on any kind of jacket image and it will signal it's a crime novel. in this case, there's no blood and it is delicately wrought and the color is very unusual, a very bright day glow yellow. and i think that kind of proves my point was that it just looked so different and, hopefully, was visually appealing enough that when you were in a book store and saw it, at the very least, you would come a little closer to it, close of like a mag pie, you just wanted t to pick it up. >> brown: did you know it away or did sales tell you you succeeded? >> it was an arduous process coming up with the cover, i did probably 50 versions. >> brown: is that normal? sometimes lightning strikes away and you have your eureka moments but i do as much work i feel i need to do to do the job. and even after it's made, there was hemming and hawing about whether it was the right cover, which just proves you can never get consensus on these things. but i was happy with it. ip not sure if it's a good cover by association or whether it's generally a good cover, but i'm proud of it, for what it's worth. >> brown: in what we'll call the smaller book, you asked the question what we see when we read. you're actually talking about what we see, what we imagine, and i'm wondering, we're in a visual culture, now, and this obviously ties to the kind of work you do as a designer of covers. >> that's right. it occurred to me at some point i was plucking, as i said, these sort of visions out of an author's work and it occurred to me it was a strange process. it wasn't quite the way i think i imagined it and the way i had imagined it is the way most people imagines it which is the author provides you their vision of a particular world that's populated by particularly characters and you read about them and you see the author's people and places, then you close the book and it's over. and the strange thing is really, i realized when i started to examine these kind of visions, the author's prompts weren't mattering that much. he might say anna has black hair, is tightly curled. i'm picturing whatever the closest analog i can come up with to the woman tolstoy very narrowly describes to us and that might be a teacher of mine from grade school, turns out when you examine the process and parse it, we all co-create the book along with the writer. >> brown: do you think all of this is changing because of the changing technology, a changing society that is more visual, perhaps, than print oriented? >> in a way it makes this idea of imagining things for ourselves this kind of nebulous anand this world where we're bombarded with visual stimuli, there are very few places other than dreaming that we get a feeling of occupying a metaphysical realm. so it's special this that regard. we text pictures to each other, see pictures on the internet and everything is visual. so it's nice to think of this more, as i put it, kind of amophous place. it becomes more precious. >> brown: what we see when we read and covers. peter mendelsund. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> ifill: we have a photo gallery of peter mendelsund's work, on our art beat page. again, the major developments of the day: ukraine accused russia of invading its territory, the u.s. and other powers said moscow has "outright lied" about its actions, but president obama ruled out a military response. the president also tried to tamp down talk of military action against islamic state fighters in syria. he said, "we don't have a strategy" yet. the world health organization reported the death toll in the west african ebola outbreak rose above 1,550. could be 20,000 cases in the months ahead. on the newshour online right now: the artist who's wrapped entire islands and bridges in bright fabric now wants to cover a 42-mile stretch of the arkansas river with a curtain of translucent silver. but the project, titled "over the river," is on pause due to legal challenges from groups that say it will damage the environment. in the meantime you can see drawings of what this art installation will look like, on our art beat page. all that and more is on our web site, newshour.pbs.org. and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, we'll look at zmapp the experimental drug protocol that is being used in very limited amounts to treat ebola. i'm gwen ifill. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: ♪ ♪ moving our economy for 160 years. bnsf, the engine that connects us. >> charles schwab, proud supporter of the "pbs newshour." >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> this is "nightly business report." >> global tensions, the conflict in ukraine flares up again, pressuring stocks, overshadowing better economic data here at home. and that isn't the only event overseas investors need to watch. bounce, a key indicator of the housing market health rises, but there may be more to that report than meets the eye. and minimize the impact. worried about the hack attack on jpmorgan? some steps you can take to protect yourself and your small business. we have all that and more tonight on "nightly business report" for thursday, august 28. >> good evening, everyone. tyler is off tonight. a tug of war on wall street today as investors weighed encouraging data about the u.s. economy against geopolitical
corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support is provided by: and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by mtj station from viewers like you. thank you. from the tisch wnet studios in lincoln center in new york, hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: good evening. thanks for joining us. isis has executed one of the two japanese hostages it was holding in syria. images released online today by the islamic extremist group purportedly show the beheading of haruna yukawa, a 42-year-old unemployed man who went to syria in july and was captured the next month. the japanese prime minister, shinzo abe, called the execution, "an outrageous and unforgivable act." isis is threatening to kill the second japanese hostage kenji goto, a 47-year-old journalist, unless jordanian authorities release a man they are holding. isis had previously demanded that a $200 million ransom be paid. following the collapse of the government in yemen, efforts by the c.i.a. and the u.s. joint special operations command to combat terrorism reportedly have suffered a setback. the "washington post" reports that the obama administration has been forced to suspend certain operations because of losses suffered by government forces there. those forces helped american drones target extremists. you'll recall that the recent terror attacks in paris were organized by al qaeda in the arabian peninsula which is based in southern yemen. spain today announced the arrest of four terror suspects. authorities described them as" highly radicalized and highly trained." the two pairs of brothers, were taken into custody in the spanish territory of sayota, which borders morocco. a police official said they were of moroccan origin but held spanish citizenship. he said there were many parallels with the brothers who attacked the offices of the french satiric newspaper "charlie hebdo." a 19-year-old from a denver suburb has been sentenced to four years in prison after pleading guilty to charges that she tried to help isis. shannon conley was arrested in april while trying to board a plane for turkey. she had planned to continue on to syria to marry a fighter there whom she had met online. the judge, who imposed the sentence, said it was meant to deter others from trying to aid the terror group. the president and first lady left today on an official visit to india. even before they departed, the white house announced that the trip would be cut short so the president can visit saudi arabia on the way back, to pay his respects and offer condolences to the family of the late king abdullah and to meet with his successor. in ukraine, at least 29 people were killed and almost 100 others wounded after a barrage of rockets fired by pro-russian rebels hit a crowded, open-air market and a nearby neighborhood. the incident occurred in the port city of mariupol, near crimea. that's the area russia forcibly annexed last spring. fighting intensified this week and the rebels announced a new offensive, even though a ceasefire was announced last september. the fighting in eastern ukraine near russia has claimed more than 5,000 lives. we'll have more on the escalating conflict in ukraine later in the program. gas prices continue to plummet. the a.a.a. reports that gas is now being sold for under $2 a gallon at about 60% of gas stations across the united states. the average price is about $2.04. that's the least expensive it has been in six years. the department of energy predicted last week that the average american household will spend about $750 less on gas this year compared to last. two marines have been killed in a helicopter crash during a military training exercise. the incident occurred late yesterday afternoon at the base in twentynine palms california about 120 miles east of los angeles. authorities are investigating the cause of the crash. peggy charren, has died. her decades of activism led to passage of a federal law requiring tv stations to air educational programming for children. she said her campaign had been inspired by watching what she described as "wall-to-wall monster cartoons" with her daughter. the group she founded, action for children's television, is also credited with getting broadcast networks to cut advertising time on saturday morning programming and to halt the advertising of sugar-coated vitamins for kids. and ernie banks, affectionately known as "mr cub," has died. the hall of fame, power-hitting shortstop became the first african-american member of the team in the fall of 1953. he went on to hit 512 home runs, was a two-time national league mvp, and played in 14 all-star games. in 2013, president obama presented ernie banks with the presidential medal of freedom, citing his good cheer, his optimism and his eternal faith that someday the cubs would go all the way. the team last won the world series in 1908. he is also remembered for his signature expression, "let's play 2," a comment he reportedly first uttered on a 105-degree day in chicago. ernie banks was 83 years old. >> sreenivasan: for more about today's beheading of one japanese hostage and japan's efforts to free the second, we are joined now by hajime ozaki he is the new york bureau chief of the kyodo news agency. so what steps did the japanese government take to try and free this particular hostage or what are they still doing to to get the next one? >> i believe that the japanese government is trying all its effort to release mr. kenji goto, the second hostage, so there are channels including neighboring countries, countries to isis, and then jordan and so on. >> sreenivasan: there's been some concern that this is in retaliation to the prime minister's visit to the middle east region pledging another $200 million for counter measures against isil, but also humanitarian support. >> correct. the prime minister last week visited cairo and issued that statement that the japanese is trying to help the refugees and neighboring countries to isis, which are fighting with the threat of isis. apparently isis seized the moment of the prime minister abe's statement, and the ransom that they demanded coincides with the amount of the money that prime minister abe pledged to humanitarian assistance. >> sreenivasan: so is there any chance japan would pay the ransom? back in the late 70s, there was an incident in bangladesh and there was some question about an incident in the late 90s in kyrgyzstan. was there an official government policy that said they wouldn't pay? >> the official government policy is to comply with the kind of international norm, not to bend to the threats of the terrorists. so it is understood that the japanese government is not ready to pay the ransom. but everything may be possible. but on the other hand, now isis changed their demand from the ransom to the release of the hostage taken in jordan. >> sreenivasan: so what has the reaction been in japan over the past few days? obviously, this news broke so late at night that most japanese were asleep and they won't know until tomorrow morning and & that will be the reaction to this hostage's assassination. but over the past several days, as this story has been building in japan, what's it been like? >> of course most of the japanese population are very much concerned and worried about the fate of the two hostages and there was a press conference by one of the it's mother of one of the hostages the other day, and it-- her appeal to free the-- free her son was widely appreciated and a lot of compassion grown in japanese society. >> sreenivasan: all right. >> on the other hand, there are some senseiments in certain people in japan that the guys went to syria knowing that there are risks and there are some voices that blame the behavior-- >> sreenivasan: that they engaged in risky behavior. >> correct. >> sreenivasan: hajime ozaki thank you very much. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: and now to our signature segment. tonight, the debate about employer background checks. how far back should they go? it's more than a personal issue. because a growing body of evidence suggests that anyone with a criminal record, even for a minor offense committed long ago, is much more likely to live in poverty. and tens of millions of americans have some sort of criminal record. the newshour's stephen fee recently traveled to philadelphia and has our report. >> reporter: every afternoon, at his dining room table, 35-year- old ronald lewis does his homework. by day, he's a student, learning to fix heating and air conditioning systems, and he looks after his three kids. he also works the nightshift running high-pressure boilers at a chemical plant here in his hometown philadelphia. >> i'm a father. i'm a hard worker. i'm very ambitious. >> reporter: he's also got a criminal record. a decade ago, lewis had two major run-ins with the law that he says have interfered with his job prospects ever since. in august 2004, he was picked up during a drug arrest alongside his brother. lewis was carrying a 9 millimeter handgun. days later, he was nabbed for stealing a pocketbook from a department store. so what was that like-- and what happened at that stage after they arrested you? >> it was life changing. but it wasn't a good feeling. it wasn't a good feeling because you felt like you disappointed your family and you disappointed your mother, which is the most important person in my life. >> reporter: on the suggestion of his lawyer, lewis took a deal. for both cases, he pled guilty to a total of three misdemeanors and was sentenced to five years probation. no jail time. at that time, were you worried at all about how this might impact your future? >> no. because the lawyer had told me, "it's only a misdemeanor. it's never gonna hurt you. don't even worry about it." so no. i really didn't think that much into it at that point. >> reporter: a short time later, lewis began looking for new work. he was overjoyed when he got a tentative job offer from a building company. >> i worked there for about a month, was honest with them. told them, you know, what was on my record. they still hired me. we're working. so i work there about a month. they called me in the office and said, "your record came back. we've got to let you go." >> reporter: and that was it? even though you had disclosed everything? you were never dishonest in the hiring process? >> never dishonest. never. they looked so scared of me-- it was a shame. >> reporter: what do you mean? >> when they-- we got to get you out of here. we've got to get you off the premises. >> reporter: lewis says that scenario played out over and over again. later on, he had two offers that were then revoked. he had promising phone calls with another company that went nowhere. he says the only explanation he received: the existence of crimes in his past. four of those companies declined to discuss lewis' case with us. there are people who are going to watch this, and they're going to say, "you know what? you weren't a kid. you were 25. you were an adult. you knew what you were doing. and that this is a consequence-- this is a consequence of your actions." >> if you show me one person that hasn't made a mistake, then i won't apply nowhere else. >> reporter: nine in ten companies in the u.s. conduct background checks and with rap sheets widely available online, advocates say people with criminal backgrounds, sometimes just an arrest record, no conviction, are being blocked from employment. they say it's driving a growing number of people into poverty. and that ronald lewis' case is hardly unique. >> it's very common. we see clients come in with variations of his story on a daily basis. >> reporter: sharon dietrich is now ronald lewis' lawyer. she didn't represent him in the original criminal cases. she's also the litigation director at community legal services of philadelphia. she's been there for nearly thirty years. >> we serve the low-income community of philadelphia, basically unemployed and low- wage workers in philadelphia. and it's the single most common reason people come to us for help is because they have a criminal record that has been keeping them from getting a job. >> reporter: last year, the "wall street journal," using data from the university of south carolina, reported that americans with a criminal conviction by age 23 have higher unemployment rates, make less money, and are twice as likely to end up in poverty as their peers. >> the re(c+uv s that with the rise of technology and really with the proliferation of background checks in this nation in really every walk of life from employment to housing a criminal record now carries often lifelong barriers to basic building blocks of economic security. >> reporter: rebecca vallas is a lawyer and poverty expert at the left-leaning center for american progress in washington. she and sharon dietrich, ronald lewis' lawyer, published a report last year linking poverty and criminal backgrounds, especially among black men. >> the fact is that between 70- 100 million americans, and that's nearly one in three of us, has some type of criminal record. and so it's really an incredibly pervasive problem that impacts whole segments of our community. but it-- this issue also really disproportionately impacts communities of color. >> reporter: employers say they aren't just shutting out everyone with a criminal past-- they're being careful and complying with guidelines from the federal equal employment opportunity commission meant to give people second chances. that's according to beth milito at the national federation of independent businesses which represents 350,000 small businesses. a cynical part of me says, "hey if i sat down and, boy, it looks like someone's got a criminal record and then i've got another candidate who doesn't, i'm gonna go with the guy who doesn't have the criminal record," right? >> maybe, maybe not. i think it depends on the nature of the job. the equal employment opportunity commission issued new guidance in april of 2012. and it reiterates that where at all possible it's good for a business to consider three factors: the nature of the crime, the time that's elapsed since the crime and the nature of the job. and when at all possible to make an individualized assessment. and i think many employers will do that. >> reporter: dozens of cities, including philadelphia, along with thirteen states, have passed so-called ban the box measures that basically ban that little check box on job applications asking about your criminal history. but vallas and dietrich's report for the center for american progress wants to go a step further, and seal low-level nonviolent criminal offenses that took place more than ten years ago. according to rebecca vallas, the data show that after a decade, nonviolent offenders are no more likely to commit a crime than anyone else, so their records shouldn't be part of the hiring process at all. >> we really have policies in place that treat a person as a criminal long after they really pose any significant risk of ever re-offending. and it really doesn't make much sense to be shutting someone out of opportunities to access-- a job for instance, because of misconceptions about who that person might be and the risk that they might pose to public safety. >> reporter: but beth milito at the national federation of independent businesses says employers face major risks, and even potential negligent hiring lawsuits, if a past offender commits a crime on the job. and for small business owners especially, their reputations could be on the line. >> hiring decisions are challenging. and they need this information. they can't turn a blind eye. too much is at risk. they can't turn a blind eye to criminal history. it'd be foolish to. you know, there's people, property at stake. >> reporter: someone might be watching this and they say, "you know what? i wouldn't trust you at my business." how do you defend yourself to that charge? >> what i say to them is it was 2004, and i'm pretty sure if you made a mistake in 2004, you don't know what your mistake was. but mine is documented. so you know what my mistake is. and look at the positive things i've done since 2004. so if you're going to hang your hat on just 2004, then you probably aren't the person i wanna work for anyway. >> reporter: do you think an employer doesn't have the right to know what happened in your past? >> employers should know-- should know who they're hiring. it's fair. you-- you should know. but you should also remember that these are lives we're-- these are people's lives we're talking about. it's like if almost double jeopardy. just look at it like this. i serve my-- i did my probation. no violations. model citizen. i go to school and try to better myself, and i'm-- it's like every time i apply for a job, i feel like i'm committing a crime all over again. >> reporter: lewis has submitted two pardon applications to the state to clear his record, and while both have been rejected, he plans on re-submitting in the near future. >> sreenivasan: should employers doing background checks be blocked from seeing non-violent criminal offenses? take our poll and share your views at pbs.org/newshour. >> sreenivasan: that shelling attack that killed dozens of people today in eastern ukraine was only the latest sign of the deteriorating situation there. even though a ceasefire was signed in september, fighting between pro-russian rebels and ukrainian government troops once again has intensified. and yesterday, the rebels launched a new offensive. for more we are joined via skype by andrew e. kramer of the "new york times." he is reporting tonight from the regional capital of donetsk. so, andrew, for most americans we thought this was a conflict that smfs resolved. there was a cease-fire but it was over but for the past week you have been talking about and reporting on a war on multiple fronts. >> that's right. thank you for having me on the show. conventional wisdom seemed to ahead that the economic crisis in russia would encourage the russian government to take a softer line in eastern ukraine but what we've seen in the last week is quite the opposite. russia, of course, formally does not support the separatist movement here mill taylor. we see statements of support for their actions and a major military escalation. >> sreenivasan: when you say "military escalation" is this similar to crimea where you have unmarked uniformed troops rolling in, in tanks? >> i've seen tanks on the streets of donesk. it's impossible to ascertain where they came from precisely. the rebels have not taken new ground in months and yet they have more military equipment than they did when the cease-fire was signed, at least impressionistically when what i see. the donesk republic claims to be operating separate from russia and the assertion is any russian fighting in ukraine is doing so as an individual, as a volunteer and maybe on vacation but not as an stfer member of the russian army. there has been a very aggressive stance on both sides. there has been shelling from the ukrainian side from the city of donesk. a bus was hit recently with tragic consequences. the other way there has been bombing from the rebel side. of course, there is this disastrous shelling in the city of mariupol. >> sreenivasan: this has been one of the least-effective cease fires in recent history. the u.n. estimates more than 1,000 people have been killed after it was signed and are these rebel forces emboldened by the fact they have this military support coming in from russia? >> i think that's the case. without the russian backing the separatist movement would have crumbled or struck a deal long ago. now they say they want to expand their boundaries and ultimately achieve a more sustainable mini state here in eastern ukraine glarp so what about the leverage that the west has? i mean, the sanctions have been in effect. it's squeezed russia's economy. the price of oil has tumbled. we don't really have any more levers to pull. >> there could be additional sanctions. that seems unlikely given the sanction fatigue in europe. other than that, there's only hand wringing. most western governments have said they will not join this fight militarily, given russia's strategic importance and nuclear weapons. and at this point, there are not a lot of breaks on the rebel movement here in eastern ukraine. we have attacks on the donesk airport, the city of mariupol and a road hub vulnerable. >> sreenivasan: all right, andrew kramer, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> sreenivasan: this is pbs newshour weekend saturday. >> sreenivasan: and now to viewers like you, your comments about our recent work. tonight, some of what you had to say about last saturday's signature segment from belgium describing that country's euthanasia laws, the least restrictive in the world. one viewer said: "i've seen patients get great comfort out of simply knowing they have the choice to end their suffering. i am, however, somewhat dubious about using euthanasia on psychiatric patients. not because i doubt their suffering, but because i doubt their mental competency to make a life altering decision." hana sheala added: "i live with muscular dystrophy and i hope euthanasia will not be legal, that there always are alternatives for being self determined even as a vented functional quadriplegic." there was this from lstcaress: "after suffering from severe depression for thirty years and growing tired of being a drugged zombie, i'm appalled i'm not allowed this option." and from michelle a. mead: "my mother and my cat were both dying at the same time. one of them was allowed to die with dignity. it was not my mother." others commented about the provision in the belgian law that allows for terminally ill children to choose euthanasia with their parents consent. briee della rocca added: "i wish we had this in the states. everyone, even children, should be allowed to free themselves from unending pain and terminal conditions where treatment is only torture." beth deroos said: "putting an innocent child to death because medical 'professionals' or parents feel it's best? sorry, but actually executing a child which is what this is, is just so wrong." and finally, there was this, from hillery geelon: "unless you're ever in that situation, no one would ever be able to judge." as always, we welcome your comments at newshour.pbs.org, or on our facebook page, and tweet us @newshour. >> sreenivasan: some more news before we leave you tonight: president obama has strongly condemned the beheading of one of two japanese hostages held by isis in syria. kia is recalling 87,000 of its 2014 forte sedans. the company warns of the risk of fire from a cooling fan part. and parts of atlanta's hartsfield-jackson international airport were closed today after bomb threats were made against two inbound passenger jets. both planes landed safely after being escorted by fighter jets. that's all for tonight. join us on air and on line tomorrow. i'm hari sreenivasan. have a good night. captioning sponsored by wnet captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> pbs newshour weekend is made possible by: corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement products. that's why we are your retirement company. additional support is provided by: and by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> ♪ >> you he us character in a way that beethoven useded dynamics nav and exciting way. he changed temperament and tempo and also urge of things that morning he was not afraid to compose schizophrenic lay in a way that was shocking and still is shocking now. ♪ >> the melodies lie in the fingers for a string player. we enjoyed them because they are off the bat, they are natural to claim you they are very human very enjoyable. it
democrats, (202) 585-3880. republicans, (202) 585-3881. independents, (202) 585-3882. you can post your comments or e-mail them at c-span.org. to help us understand what is happening, we are joined by john herbst. how do we get to where we are now? there is great dissatisfaction, not just among people in the center and west of the country, but even in the east with his role. corruption, which is a major problem in the ukraine, has become worse. you had his rejection of the trade deal and tens of thousands of protesters came out to protest. he made the mistake of cracking down. the crackdowns are not well received in the public. we had tens of thousands of demonstrators demonstrating on one day. after the crackdown, we have hundreds of thousands in the streets. the numbers have ebbed and flowed ever since. insistingters are that he give up our. they want a ukraine that has democratic freedoms. host: who are the protesters? guest: they appeared spontaneously. protesters that occurred -- the protests that occurred in 2004 were planned by the opposition parties. these occurred spontaneously after he broke the trade agreement with the eu. people came out in the streets addressing their frustration. you have opposition leaders in the ukraine. they only have some influence with the protesters. they do not control them. protesters are bound and to bring concessions out of mr. yana kovacic. nukovich. there are some groups within them, but i would not put stock among the demonstrators. it is not as if there is a single group that speaks for more than a few hundred people in the streets. host: what you make of the violence? guest: ukraine in the post soviet. they do not have a traditional violence. this is a turbulent period. reflects the heavy hand of viktor yanukovych. he used force to try to clear the streets. he does not seem to have the ability to use the major mama force necessary to clear the streets. the armed forces from his perspective are not reliable and he cannot count on them to turn arms against fellow citizens. the police, the main apparatus for exercising control, also not reliable. he has had to use the special police unit. even they are not completely reliable. note are people that do like the idea of firing on their fellow citizens. this may explain why the standoff has lasted so long. host: there was a reference in the paper two thugs. to thugs. guest: they are thugs who are hired to do the dirty work so the regime can claim they have nothing to do with the dirty work. they are out in the streets. there may be a few hundred of them. these are simply people who they hire, where is the people in the streets are committed to a new and better ukraine. that is the real story. this crisis has lasted for three months, despite the fact that it is in wintertime. belowatures drop well zero. it has lasted this long because there are only two possible ways to resolve it. either viktor yanukovych has to , or he haspression to offer a serious concession. he is not ready to do that. he has offered a lot of half measures. he fired the prime minister, it to --. the reason he did not take it is because under the ukrainian constitution, viktor yanukovych can give him that job and fire him tomorrow. if theyo real authority do yana kovacic does not want him to have that -- if viktor yanukovych does not want him to have that authority. host: this is a statement put out on the official website of the ukrainian president. this is from earlier today. radical protesters lots and ascension of -- launch an offensive on the lawn forced officials using firearms during the declared truce. all attempts of the government to establish dialogue and revolve -- resolve the conflict work ignored. these firearms including sniper rifles, they shoot to kill. law enforcement officials are not armed and used special means. bloodshedes to stop and confrontation are being taken. guest: that is excellent in order to justify a crackdown if they try another one. not thet statement is most efficient propaganda. look at the numbers that talk about. dozens or scores of fatalities and injured. we know that there are many thousands of injuries among the protesters. the statement is that the police are not using firearms and they are not using librarian action. that is false. any examination of the injury sustained by thousands of protesters proves that is false. here's a tweet from an abc reporter. diapers targeting news crews filming from windows, including abc's camera. that doesn't surprise me. they don't want an accurate portrayal of the story. one of the things viktor yanukovych did was shut down channel 5. it is owned by a member of the opposition. it was important during the orange revolution, conveying news about what is happening. it was important in this crisis, conveying real news. targeting western journalists are just a step up from what he is doing by targeting -- by shutting down channel 5. he can solve this crisis tomorrow by offering a real concession. he has not been willing to do it. for him, maintaining power is important. host: foreign ministers of european countries may have wrapped up their meetings with the president today. called an emergency meeting to vote on sanctions later today. what do you make of this effort? guest: that is very important. the people doing the nasty things in the ukraine government are not driven by a strong ideal or ideology. they are driven by a love of power and the ability to become rich by being powerful. eu were to sanction individual ukrainian officials responsible for the violence, refusing visas to come to europe, take action against their financial assets in europe, this would weekend the anukovych regime. riches are in danger by carrying out these topicies, they will s doing it. host: should the u.s. do the same? guest: we issued a visa sanctions on about 20 or so ukrainian officials. would move towards some financial sanctions. our impact will be less than the where --ause it is because the eu is where they park their money, much less than the united states. i think we have done a good job so far. we have spoken out in support of democratic processes in the ukraine. we have cautioned the demonstrators to avoid violence. we lead the way on visa sanctions four weeks ago. withve been in touch viktor yanukovych and others to express our concerns about what is happening. should move to financial sanctions, but i don't think this is a tool we should use on a broad scale. choose one or two people and let the europeans choose one or two people. the idea is not to punish folks. it is to encourage them to stop doing nasty and violent things. this economically and diplomatically, not a military? guest: it is not a military matter. with thehe ukraine fighting, it is not a military issue. the ukrainian military has not been involved in political affair since the country became independent. during the orange revolution, the military made it clear that they would not accept a crackdown on protesters. so far this crisis has been studiously outside of the whole contest. thing mr. yana kovacic this week, he sat the chief of the army. the fear is that this man may be g theested in helpin government crackdown. this is not an option -- and operation of just my service. they do not want to repress the ukrainian people. host: john herbst is our guest. 2006.ved from 2003 to what should the role of the united states be? mark, brighton, massachusetts. i would like to bring up the recent conversations which were brought to light of the u.n. best -- the u.s. ambassador who was candid about what the was, which was to bring the ukraine into the european union and into their fold and away from russia. my question is, if we are doing we do if thered was outside the capital of ec, -- of d.c., people through maltz of cocktails s molotov cocktails at police, do you think they would move them down with machine guns? mischaracterize the phone conversation between tori newland and jeff. what they said, they talked about how they would like to see the opposition respond to the last offer from mr. yanukovych o. tori newland was reported to say it would be a good thing if -- became the prime minister. gentleman remained outside the government. that is all they said. if you listened to my conversation with greta, the opposition rejected the proposal to take the prime minister. of course american diplomats have the opinions about individual matters in ukraine. that does not mean we control it. you mischaracterize the demonstrations. the demonstrations were peaceful from the start. the first violence was applied by mr. yanukovych. there have been several efforts since then to crackdown on the demonstrators. depression has been overwhelmingly a tool implied -- employed by the authorities. you haven't seen organized repression and violence on the part of the demonstrators, except in defense. the casualties suggest there are thousands of casualties among the protesters. there are not hundreds of casualties among the police. the usa has no role in ukraine as president obama has made us no longer a superpower. another says if it is a civil war, i don't make we should have any role, unless we started up. another says we need to keep our nose out of it. i want to get to those sentiments. is this a civil war, and our role, but first, andrew kramer is joining us on the phone. he is in kiev. what is happening there now? in thei am standing square and there has been a resumption of violence this morning. morning about 8:00 this .hen there were gunshots there was quite a bit of gunfire. i heard gunfire coming from the police. it was a scene of mayhem. host: does it continue now? --guest:ere is there is a temporary lull. i suspect they will declare a state of emergency this afternoon. the opposition leaders have a plan to hold a recession of parliament. host: what does the state of emergency mean? guest: he could bring in the and to declare martial law try to restore order in the capital. host: the president met with the foreign ministers of european countries. what is the news coming out of that? i have not seen the news from that. i have been out on the square today. host: what were they going to talk about? i think the delegates would be raising me threat of sanctions against ukraine. there have been discussions about the eu joining the u.s. in sanctioning officials deemed to be responsible for the violence. host: there are reports that comings sniper gunfire at cameras. news tweeted out a picture as well. have you witnessed this? guest: yes. there has been quite a bit of sniper fire on the square this morning. when i was out, there were rifle bullets whizzing by in the square. there was shot gunfire, which is a more standard crowd control measure. a doctor has seen some loans from a shotgun -- some wounds from a shotgun shot. host: a doctor was saying there are wounds to the eye of patient they were seeing. guest: those would likely be from the concussion grenades. outside my hotel, there were 11 bodies on the sidewalk. some of them had been hit by real ammunition. whatever caused their deaths, it was not a concussion grenade. ,ost: what are the crowds like compared to the previous days? guest: the crowds are large. many of them are wearing constructionor and helmets, skating pads from in-line skates, caring baseball bats and gloves. some of them are also carrying guns. there's also a good number of people that look like they might , bringing groceries and supplies, but the mood is tense. they have been capturing policeman and parading them through the crowd. saw one man struck by a protester. ofre has been plenty violence, so i do not want to say this is general. we are showing a live feed from reuters. they have one of their cameras set up so people can go to their website to watch this. this area that we are looking at, is characterized as calm, compared to what you're talking about. your hotel is outside of the square? guest: it is right on the square. host: how are you able to cover this story? guest: the police had approached from two sides of the square. causeintention was to people to leave, not so much to trap them over the last two days or so. road testers have built a defensive barricade within about 20 yards of the main stage and then they ate knighted a large bonfire of tires. that was the ring of fire that was intended to keep the crowd a control vehicles away from the stage after some of the vehicles had burned. this was kept up for about a day and a half. her testers moved from outside their barricades and pushed the policeman back. host: are you concerned for your safety? guest: i am being careful. host: let's talk about the death toll. it has reached 35 or more. how are you getting information about how many have been killed? thet: the information from classes on tuesday was from the health ministry of the ukraine. i think their numbers may be off by one person. today, i do not know. i saw what i think is nine bodies on the square. i saw them bringing in wounded and dead people on stretchers. i think the final death toll is not determined. host: what are you watching for today? guest: i think it is important to see if yanukovych declares a state of emergency. he could declare this type of violence is unacceptable in the center of its capital. whether that would have an effect is unclear. also, the opposition planned to use parliament to take back power by changing the constitution. that could be a development today. also, i am just watching the square. kramer, with the new york times, stay safe. what did you hear? guest: he gave a good description of the assumption of violence. i think he was shrewd to observe that mr. yanukovych consid ering a state of emergency, but what that means. it is important, although probably not, but is likely they will not succeed in making reforms. if mr. yanukovych of his allies to go with the opposition, you would have constitutional reform which would be the way to end this crisis peacefully. during the orange revolution, the two sides were at a standoff. the second round of the -- thetial election presidential election was falsified. the government recognizes they cannot maintain this election. they agreed to a third round of the vote. they also insisted the government -- the government insisted on constitutional reform. this is exactly the same technique to avoid confrontation. host: this tweet that -- let's show that to our viewers. u.n. wants to intervene in the ukraine, the u.s. should join a coalition, but we should not do anything on our own. nothing. viewers to weigh in. a video of the mayor announcing leaving the ruling party in euromaidaner violence. guest: we thought it might be the loss of the beginning of internal cohesion. mr. yanukovych was able to stop that. became a common , it is a possibility. us bank more evidence of people shooting -- host: more evidence of people shooting. the u.s. do not think has any role in what is happening. when you look at the republicans and they keep saying there is no money for unemployment and this and that, how can they find money to go into another war. we do not need to be a part of anything else. -- it will be an amount of time before you see john mccain saying let's arm these people in the next people. you give them rifles and you don't know who you are giving them to. as for the president, stay out of it. we do not want to be involved in another war. let's focus on the problems we have here and put our own money here to help our people. host: john mccain put out a ease calling for sanctions against ukrainian persons. they are drafting legislation. that could come to the floor for a vote next week. we will see how this develops. do you want to weigh in on what she had to say? guest: i have all expressed a concern that the united states would intervene in the ukraine. i think this is a natural concern. we have been very incompetent in anddeployments in iraq afghanistan. in libya, we did not do well. this is a different situation. we should be active in ukraine. i have talked about that. sending talking about american troops or billions of american dollars into the ukraine. i'm talking about acts of diplomacy. interest that the ukrainian people have a chance to live in a democracy. it is an hour interest -- it is promotenterest to democracy. we should do this. it is part of creating a world that would be better for american interests. host: until the economic problems that the people feel in ukraine are dressed with them in mind, they appear at the end of their rope. what is there economy like? yes bank that is a smart observation. one of the main reasons for this great frustration with mr. yanukovych is the fact that ukrainian economy has been sputtering along and all the president and his allies seem to sure that they can steal ukrainian resources. alexanderent's son, has become a wealthy man because they are able to buy government assets at bargain basement prices. that is why mr. yanukovych wants to hang onto power. what are their resources? guest: they have serious industrial capacity, chemical industries, serious agricultural assets. they have the largest transportation system of gas pipelines in the world. there are assets that can be privatized. factbook. is the cia they put together the numbers on all the different countries. this is what they say about imports and where they get their import partners. 32% from russia. china, nine percent. this is from 2012. their export partners, russia, 25%. turkey, five percent. egypt, four percent. what about russia's ties economically and otherwise, politically, to the ukraine. guest: those ties are large. is also true that the cultural ties are substantial. people talk about the division in the ukraine between the east on one side and the west on the other. theeast is looking towards west culturally and the west looking towards europe culturally. ukraine needs to have a good relationship with russia. having good relationships with russia does not mean that ukraine should be forced into the eurasian economic union. it is a disastrous idea for economic development for not just the ukraine, but for russia itself. the principal businessman in the ukraine, the oligarchs, including those in the east of the country, understand that ukraine's economic interests lie with europe. russia does not like that under mr. putin. they have threatened economic boycotts. for mr. putin, establishing control over ukraine is more important than the prosperity of the russian economy come or perhaps he does not understand economics. putin playedle has in the violence that we have seen? guest: this is overwhelmingly a ukrainian story. role has been uniformly negative. , theyhreatened to boycott have urged mr. yanukovych to crack down the demonstrators. the point man of the ukraine has justified a violent crackdown. every time yanukovych comes back putin, he is restrained. host: americans are only waking up to the crisis. a should care how this turns out. ukraine want to pull into the western orbit as a matter of human dignity and strategic interest. a europe leaning ukraine can join the company of free nation that fulfill the aspirations of its people. a ukraine tilted toward the corrupt authoritarian regimes allied with moskal will be a source of regional unrest at best. there are some legitimate points in that editorial. there is some purple prose there as well. certainly the united states would prefer if ukraine reached an agreement with the eu, but our policy has been driven, not so much by ensuring the ukraine turns to the west, it is driven for ukraine's democratic aspirations. if yanukovych rejected the deal cracked down on the demonstrators, american diplomacy would not be in high gear. we are responding to the violence in the ukraine on the part of the government. statement bymous , i think headams said it when he was secretary of the state. the united states is the well was sure of everyone's freedom, but only the guarantor of its own. for people who believe that, i think all of your callers expressed that sentiment, what we are doing in the ukraine is more in the way of well wishing than intervening. vention" is very small and surgical like. host: stay out. if they want help, they can ask. here is another one. why can't ukraine accept terms with both russia and the eu? guest: i think that is admiral. i think the you would endorse that sentiment. the kremlin will not. served in ukraine, there were two issues that were relevant. whether the ukraine should join the eu, the other was whether ukraine should join nato. the russian position was in no way should ukraine join nato, but no problem if they joined the eu. since then, the position has shifted. as the prospect of a closer eu-ukraine relationship grew, they said no. russia stopped all ukrainian exports at its border as a way to say to the ukraine, you will suffer if you make a deal with the eu. here's another tweet. he has a picture of a priest with a gas mask. skip, virginia beach, independent caller. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. good morning mr. herbst. i have to react to your first two callers. mark, from massachusetts. he asked the same question i was thinking of -- how would this country respond to mr. herbstand gave a diplomatic answer. the lady from florida said we do not need to get involved and i agree 100% with her. how do you think this government in this country would react if other countries around the world might think they're type of government should be installed in this country. i love this country, i do not want any change in the type of government, but how would we feel if other countries wanted to put their type of government into our country? i gave you the answer from john quincy adams. i do not think that there is a problem in the united states being supportive of democratic freedoms. that is what drives our policy in the ukraine. supporte you would not a violent crackdown on peaceful demonstrators. that is how this began. the demonstrators only became violent, and i would not overstate the violence. it happened after weeks and weeks of impressed -- of oppression by authorities. i can understand why you do not want united states to get involved in a major way in the ukraine, but i do not understand why you would not want the ukrainians to enjoy the same freedoms that we enjoy. president?as the -- jury yanukovych turnedviktor yanukovych his life around and became a successful bureaucrat and a major leader in independent ukraine. his political fortunes prospered and he became prime minister and eventually the presidential candidate in 2004. he lost the presidential during the orange revolution. vote,he lost that everyone assumes his political career was over. he did not assume it. he recognized he was dealing with a new ukraine where there would be democratic elections. eastern andd in the southern part of ukraine. he restored his role as the leader of the opposition at that time. fairn a free and presidential election in 2010. power, he wanted to make sure he would not leave power. he has instituted oppressive measures ever since. his behavior has been wretched. host: possibility of war crimes? guest: i am leery about saying this man has blood on his hands. he has a great deal of power. if there is going to be a peaceful resolution so that from this day or tomorrow that there is no more violence, you will have to make a deal with him. if you say he is a work criminal, you war are saying as no acceptable compromise. i do not think that will help us get a peaceful resolution to the crisis. host: benjamin, republican color, welcome to the conversation. pay -- the u.s. should play a role. it is something that has been in our history. this guy wants power. is no country, there king. there is no person that can hold power forever. we know what power does. like dealing with the human. mr. yanukovych is a convicted criminal. why not let people live in a democratic state? he knows he will start to lose a lot of the power, slowly and surely as the people start to get more content and happier with the way that policies are. this is like syria and libya. it will start popping up more and more. the united states need to say all of you guys that want diplomatic happiness, you have to get it without power or being afraid of a protester giving a criticism of the government. you need to say, this is what we are doing wrong, let's change it. country cannot know what it is doing wrong lessig is criticism from its people. i agree largely with what you said. we have a long and wonderful history of support for democracy. that is what is driving our policy right now. this is a live feed from russia tv. this is the maidan square. what you make of the numbers? guest: it is a large crowd. we do not see how large it extends from beyond the pictures thing. host: richard, you are next. go ahead. i do support what the ambassador said as far as stepping in in terms of diplomacy and may giving advice, but as far as spending any viable resources or time or energy in the ukraine, it seems senseless, considering we still have issues at home in terms of obamacare and our national debt. we should concentrate and focus on our issues here and tackle those before we go anywhere else and deal with their problems. host: here's what the president had to say yesterday. he traveled to mexico city and met with his mexican and canadian counterparts. he was asked about the violence in ukraine. here's the president. [video clip] regard to ukraine and our european partners, we will engage all sides and stress to president yanukovych and the ukrainian government that they have the primary responsibility to prevent the kind of terrible violence that we have seen. to withdrawal riot police, to work with the opposition, to restore security and human dignity and move the country forward. this includes progress towards a multiparty technical government that can work with the international community on a support package and adopt reforms necessary for free and fair elections act your. ukrainians are a proud and resilient people who have overcome extraordinary challenges in their history. that is a pride and strength i hope they draw on now. i have urged the military to show restraint and allow civilians to pursue the dialogue necessary for progress. we have seen reports of a truce between the government and the if the truce is implemented, it could provide space for the sides to resolve their disagreements peacefully. we will do a we can to support ukrainians as they seek a peaceful solution. host: what did you make of what the president had to say? guest: i think it is an excellent statement. he covers all the points. he makes clear that we are looking for a compromise that would be acceptable to the government and the opposition parties. i like that he cautioned that the military to stay out of it and he talked about the willingness to offer some assistance if they are willing to make the necessary reforms. host: a joint statement by eu ambassador and myself, what is his role and what you make of his efforts? .uest: is a solid professional he is handling himself well. is capital in which he accredited and is in crisis. we have to be careful about what we do. he is handling himself well. host: john, independent caller. caller: good afternoon. host: go ahead. the past --nd statements to be disingenuous. the history of america involves themselves and other problems, they look good going in, but the results have not been nice. history bears that all out. if the innate -- if the ukrainian nation wants to solve their problems, and they have a lot of them. the only country that has their and are inhe wealth a position to help them are the russians. anyone who steps on russia will have to be careful. while we wish to ukrainians -- foundingrming fathers told us that there is no democracy like we have here. there is no people in the world like we have here. the people in ukraine have to start thinking. arehey are doing what they doing here in america, i would ask my government to clean the streets. guest: i think you expressed some admiral sentiments. we have intervened in some places around the world. goingnot talking about into the ukraine. we are talking about using diplomacy to come up with a diplomatic solution. what mr. putin is proposing for the ukraine is not good for the people. he is not helping them. he is trying to draw them into an economic and political union, which is a dead-end. the ukrainian people are resisting that. that is understandable. our support for ukrainians is not unreasonable. host: a string of tweets. he ran into the opposition leader who thinks the government vokedroke -- pro today's violence to show visiting foreign ministers a truce was impossible. guest: i don't have at my fingertips to the exact 25 moven, but if 20 or from the government parties to the opposition parties, the opposition would have a majority. that would lead to the constitutional reform we were talking about. 10 is a significant number. in late november, two or three people left. 10 is a lot more interesting and significant. this is coming from the opposition leader, so we do not know if this is true. it is, the serious talk of sanctions is having an impact. these parliamentarians do not want to be sanctioned. , andre showing us especially europe, do not target us. host: bob, virginia. caller: there's a four-part series on youtube, i recommend everybody look at this history. it is by a ukrainian and it covers the 4000 years of the history of the ukraine, which is ofically the meat grinder scintillation over the last 4000 years. thank you. civilizationer of over the last 4000 years. thank you. host: president obama is saying the u.s. condemns in strongest terms the violence that is taking place in the ukraine. that was tweeted out yesterday. mark, columbus, ohio. go ahead. caller: i would like to remind the ambassador that the united states has always had their problems too. i do not recall any country coming into the united states when we were enslaved, when we were fighting for our civil rights, the government turned against us. we were trying to get our own personal civil rights. no one came to help us. the united states should get involved in any type of military action outside the united states. -- let's take the ukraine. when all ukrainians in america return home to help their country, that is when we should get involved. this caller, like most of the others express is a serious concern about the fate intervening overseas. -- about the united states intervening overseas. what we're talking about in the ukraine is not a deployment. it is diplomacy. pute are no dangers when we military for -- of the type that existed when we put military forces on the ground in afghanistan. the caller is right. other countries do not get involved in our civil rights movements. we have a history as the world's to encourageacy democracy around the world. there's nothing wrong with that. host: if we learned anything and rock -- from iraq afghanistan is that invaders have little or no control after regime change. guest: this is not afghanistan. anti-interventionist tendency as a result of our problem deployments in afghanistan and iraq. host: possible sanctions? guest: that is diplomacy. it does not cost anything to issue sanctions. sanctions talk is having an impact. a positive impact. host: who does it impact and who does the cost? guest: it costs those that are causing and promoting violence in the ukraine. that is the beauty of the sanctions. aq --t the sanctions on ir all the sanctions on iran. sanctions against a few oligarchs does not hit the people of ukraine. they pay no cost for. er it leads to bett policies, that is their benefit. host: ukraine opposition leader urges demonstrators for truce as protesters seize government building in kiev. that sound like it is the right thing for the opposition leaders to ask. one of the problems is that the opposition leaders do not control --. host: milo, independent caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. -- theseting to ask people in the ukraine, not just in the ukraine, but venezuela, thailand, egypt, syria, all over they are probably against their government looking into -- listening to their phones, watching their e-mails and texts, knowing everything about their banking, their health, parts of the government putting down any kind of groups that do not agree with them. familiar andnd does this country need to look at our own situation when it comes to democracy and liberty? the new thing now is that we newsroomsators in our , radio stations. they want to monitor our license plate tags. i imagine people all over the world are protesting against that type of situation. host: let me jump in. viewerso update our about the story you mentioned about license plates. the homeland security has canceled the plan for a national license plate tracking device or database. that has been canceled after it was revealed yesterday by the washington post. i agree with the caller that many people around the world aren't happy about the authoritarian policies of their government. it seems to be that call is more about what is happening in the united states. of course we have to be vigilant to preserve our own freedoms. thesehow many of eruptions are in putin's backyard and attributable to his influence? guest: he lives in an unstable region and i do not blame the russians for the current term don't in ukraine. are not playing a helpful role, but the problems are of ukrainian origin. host: what will you be watching for today? we will see if mr. yanukovych issues a state of a state ofdecrees emergency. that is important. we'll see if the military does anything to help control crowds. that is important. thealso, the efforts by apposite -- opposition to pass constitutional reform. these are the things i will be watching. host: where do you get your news? guest: online, i have good contacts with people in ukraine. i get a lot of stuff directly from there. there is a good group of 10 to 15 people in washington that know the ukraine well. over the past several months, we have been in regular touch with each other. host: what are you hearing from the people you know inside ukraine. make: my job is to try to sense of the various reports i get. most of the folks i hear from our people who are on side of the demonstrators. the nastyorts about tactics of the government and we get a lot of reports about their fears. early and mid december, every few weeks i am getting stuff in from people out there saying the crackdown is coming. been efforts of crackdown, there has never been a serious effort. host: thank you for being here. we are going to turn our domestic issue here. later, we will be joined by the authors of the new book, "hrc ." we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight, we will talk with two u.s. senators about their personal lives, careers, and interesting facts about their names. the senator tells us how her name went from mary catherine to heidi. >> i grew up in a small catholic community. the twoas growing up, classes, first and second or third and fourth, were all in the same classroom. a small group of girls, there were a lot of mary's. a mary beth and marianne and mary jo, and then married catherine. my parents never called me merry. my name was cathy. but my best friend's name was cathy. so she decided in the third grade she would rename me. she was a voracious reader and had read hundreds of hooks by the time she was in the third grade and heidi was one of her favorite books. was greatt it alliteration and she gave me the name heidi and it stuck. we came from norway in 1906 and when he got to ellis island, english,not know besides apple pie and coffee. they were asked to change their name because they thought it would be too difficult to spell and pronounce for people in this country. when they got to ellis island, they picked the name of the farm where they lived near norway. they got to ellis island and had a sponsor in south dakota and they came out to work, railroads. interviews profile tonight starting at 9:30 eastern on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org. journal" continues. host: laura barron-lopez is here. that adds to his 2011 standards that the epa and the department of transportation finalized. those standards applied to big rigs and semitrucks, garbage trucks. what did he announce earlier? guest: in 2011, he announced for 2013. they reduce and cut fuel consumption. host: what is expected to be the impact of the latest announcement by the president? the 2011 standards are expected to cut fuel consumption by 130 million barrels of oil. they are also expected to cut emissions by 270 million electric times. some of the most potent greenhouse gases. he has not exactly said what the new standards -- how much they will cut emissions by or fuel consumption. what he did say is he wants them to go into the next tech date and the standards to reach into 2025 the way his car standards do. host: what has been the reaction? so far, good. during the speech tuesday, obama haded the auto industry come back because of the fuel economy and fuel efficiency standards. that these new technologies need to be used. so, the new efficiency standards announced on tuesday, there has been slow reaction to it so far. they have yet to look over it. why do you think it has been slow? will they try to fight him? guest: i am not sure they will. werethe 2011 ones announced, republicans did not exactly take to it completely, but i spoke to the senator the other day and he said he still the newook over standards, the announcement obama made on tuesday. they are in recess right now. that is probably why the reaction has been slow to come out. there is probably one part of it republicans will definitely not take too kindly to, which is the energy security trust obama was touting again. that takes revenue from oil and pushes it into find alternative fuels for vehicles. listening to what the president had to say the other day, talking about green technology. fueleir goal is to develop economy standards for heavy-duty trucks that will take us well into the next decade just like our cars. they will partner with manufacturers and autoworkers and other stakeholders, truckers, to come up with a proposal i march of next year. they will complete the rule a year after that. businesses have sent a clear message is -- a clear message. more oil, savee more money, cut pollution. , whatlaura barron-lopez was the argument? was trying to say fuel efficiency standards are important, that they are crucial for the u.s. to reach the air -- heir efficiency standards. to bring them down from levels in 2005 by about 17-20%. the u.s. has been touting we want to be him a forefront of fighting it missions. a big part of president obama's second term legacy is his climate agenda. what could be the impact on consumers of the new fuel efficiency standards? they are supposed to save -- the heavy-duty truck ones are supposed to save operators and businesses about $50 billion in fuel costs. obama touts they are supposed to save consumers money at the pump , that they are not supposed to be hurting gas prices. that argument could come out in the future when more lawmakers look over the standards. >> could you see the price of cars go up? have you seen it go up? >> i have not seen the price go up. it is not something that has been raised. a lot of green groups are cheering this and saying it consumerwill help the and is good for the economy. putting these new technologies out there. >> how is this part of his overall effort on climate if they arehey say finalized, which they should be green group and a lot of advocates are saying this could be one of the biggest tops it president has taken mitigate the effects of carbon thesions, to help curve drastic effect of climate change, this along with a possible rule the epa has proposed, which is to curb carbon emissions. host: we are talking with laura barron-lopez about the vehicle standards set by the president today and also climate change. paul, you're up first, republican caller. >> good morning. call.you for taking my i appreciate you letting me get these points out. this president is the worst thing that ever happened to this country. he is a disaster. he could not govern a milk farm. the fuel efficiency thing, they are not making these vehicles more fuel-efficient. they are replacing steel with aluminum. now they have changed the narrative from global warming to climate change. tell us how this will help us when china's don't -- china don't acknowledge any of this crap and all of the stuff goes here. we have got coal miners out of work for the very reason the epa is shutting them down. lance --r -- coal fire there is no more coal miners. this president is crippling us. the coalwill speak to aspect. that is something president obama has to deal with. lawmakers like mitch mcconnell in kentucky had valid to make it one of his main points on the election campaign this year, that these new standards are crippling the coal industry, that obama is not being kind to coal miners. the new standards, which , use cut carbon emissions carbon capture technology to do there is something the u.s. says needs to be done in order to stay on the track that obama has set for carbon emission goals. when it comes to china, they definitely have been -- i have been talking to kerry about this. he has been making this a big part of his campaign, climate change. he recently had a speech in indonesia and is also meeting in beijing with some officials. this is definitely a big part of that. i would say china is reacting to it. the biggest carbon emitter, the u.s. second to them. they want to take a stand on this. >> i want to show what our secretary of state had to say when he was in indonesia. he is quoted as saying, think about the proliferation -- response to him comparing climate change to a weapon of mass instruction? there was a good amount of response to that. obviously, conservation groups cheered it and were very happy he took such a strong line when it came to climate change. republican lawmakers like senator john mccain asked kerry what planet he is on because he said, how can you compare extreme weather to a weapon of ?ass destruction john kerrych blasted quite a bit, saying this is not something he should be touting and this is something he should resign for. he called for that, as well. there was a good amount of reaction. host: 83 -- -- a tweet -- natural gas is definitely something obama is trying to expand more. he spoke a lot about in his state of the union. to branch outg into these new technologies. it is something the administration is looking to. it is definitely going to take a because there is a lot of pushback on natural gas. the environmental effects of it are not exactly fully -- they have not come into the scene yet. they are not completely sure all the impacts of it. >> that brings up the keystone pipeline and what is to happen with that. we were talking about natural gas. where does that stand right now? now, the state department is in its 90 day interagency review. they just dropped their environmental impact statement, which takes a look at the environmental impacts of the pipeline. the impact statement found the pipeline would not drastically increase greenhouse gas emissions, that regardless of whether or not it is built, oil sands in canada would expand. so, right now, the state department is finishing the final review and opening the public comment time. done, and it should wrap up in june, that would leave it to president obama to make a decision. a nebraska drudge through a -- nebraska judge through a major hurdle. -- this was tweeted in about vehicle fuel efficiencies, saying -- bob in michigan, a democratic caller. caller: it is time for everybody to start connecting the dots between our unfettered and unregulated trade with countries , that do nothing for their own people, and just wreck the environment, while we continue out of ourss cheese north american continent, spoiling the one resource we still have that no one else has, which is freshwater, and then exporting that resource to the same countries that still rely on slave labor to produce the junk we rely on here. until we connect the dots, we are going nowhere. >> john in columbia, maryland. independent caller. have a couple of statements to make and i will take my answers off air. environment and concerns there, can you talk a little bit about some liquid gas or construction that will be going on in the chesapeake bay and when it comes to the hybrid cars and large batteries, when they are at the end of their life and they can thatnger be used, how is impacting the environment with how they are getting rid of these cars? as far as recycling and such? thank you very much. as far as the batteries and where they're going, they are being used. that is not something that has been addressed on the hill, that i have covered. i probably would not have the best answer for you right now. when it comes to liquid natural gas exports, which is i think what you is asking about, that is something that is heating up in congress. they are looking to a bunch of ,ifferent export possibilities natural gas, which the industry seems to be keen on. crude export as well. exports,, the 1970's band, is something lawmakers are looking to more now than they ever have. the conversation did not seem likely before in the senate but they have brought it up now and have had hearings on it. there is a possibility of those becoming big in the election cycle, certain vulnerable , andrats like alaska louisiana, because it is something constituents look to. also on the issue of climate change, in the papers this morning, usa today had the headline that the high court could put the brakes on gas rule. they will weigh in on one of the most intractable issues of our time -- global warming. the health and welfare of americans will be jeopardize unless the government can continue to combat climate change by regulating greenhouse emissions from all sources -- president obama announcing this week new fuel efficiency for medium and heavy duty trucks. is here ton-lopez talk about that and the administration's overall efforts on climate change. caller.epublican go ahead. all of this climate change, i have been saying over and over again, it is nothing but a bunch of bunk. nobody believes it around here. it is all lies coming out of and the secretary of state, it is all bunk, man. there is nothing to replace gas and coal. all this greenhouse mess is nothing but bunk. host: what do you do for a living? caller: i drive an 18 wheeler. i will not change my fuel in my truck for obama to come up with some bowl. it is all political anyway. know obama don't like america anyway. he wants to destroy this country. host: all right. the guy mark has a new assignment in the senate, given what her constituents are said there, what role is she taking on and what you expect from her leadership? it is a big move. know, definitely, you would likeustry, she to expand and make sure coastal states like louisiana are from offshorenue oil drilling that is afforded, that is allowed on lance. she would likeng to tackle. she has also talked about crude oil exports. it is something she is very interested in. definitely be playing a prominent role and this will help her in her reelection bid because of the fact that she has someower to push forward core issues with her voters in louisiana. ohio, democratic caller. caller: good morning. rebuffs to the couple of people that call. coalne guy saying companies and the power plants are not using coal anymore, and the reason they are not is because natural gas is cheaper. please listen to that. natural gas is cheaper. for the gentleman that just called from louisiana or if you do nots, believe in global warming, the next time you call, try to explain it to everybody why the oceans are acidifying, the ph level is changing, and the coral is dying everywhere. once the coral dies, the oceans are in trouble because the coral is where all fish do their young.g and have their the other guy who called first, theorgot to mention aluminum they are using in their vehicles now to make them more fuel efficient is lighter and so, consequently, it leads to better mileage. thank you. >> all right. on twitter, mark says -- mike, go ahead. caller: thank you. all this is crazy. vehicles since the early 1970's that could get hundreds of miles per gallon and they lock the patents up in a of it.nd that is the end it is all big oil. frankly, if you want to talk , it should be on japan and china, shipping all of their goods over here. listen. i am all for a free market economy. it is a world economy. however, make it fair. you, in a decade or will be run byry china. they will be an economic powerhouse and we will be left in the dust. if we do not get a manufacturing base back in this country, and we could build economic vehicles, and we could build sources to make energy in many different ways, instead of spending money all over the our gigrying to enforce on other people, we should be building -- if california -- we should be using our money to put plants on the ocean by california so they have water to grow crops. host: mike says we should be looking at all options. "the washington times" is reporting -- the energy secretary confirmed wednesday the obama administration will make available the lands of dollars in federal loan guarantees to support private construction efforts. one of those efforts in georgia. in massachusetts. independent caller. one, in 1980, i had a car that went 40 miles to the gallon. 2003, give or take, lot ofn england, a diesel cars were going 75 miles to the gallon. the u.s. has consistently regulations that told get our efficiency up standard. smallt straight to suv's, trucks, instead of producing cars. that is how the car industry got around that one. a recent c-span3 panel pointed and 85 could be used in eliminate theld huge exhaust system they have to use and they would be lighter and cheaper to build and get that are asked mileage and pollute less. whole bunch of options, one of which is getting which china did. early on they need to eat the corn. coal. get methanol from it seems to me like a huge blast task by the oil companies to just continue their control. gas prices have gone up more than 300% since 1999. guest: he mentioned ethanol and biofuels and that is another aspect of the obama administration standards when it comes to the amount of biofuels mixed into the supply within a certain amount of time. the epa recently came out with their proposal on how much biofuels will be mixed in. they retreated this past year. they went back a bit, the first time they had gone back. so, the oil industry was happy about that. the renewable fuel standard should be repealed altogether. it is not something they think is smart for the economy. it is something they think hurts certain fuel engines. say when you mix too much of ethanol into the fuel supply, you hit a blind wall. host: a tweet -- charles, alabama, republican caller. caller: you keep changing the name from the heating to the calling to climate change. i need just a minute to say something about this. this planet is spinning around the sun and we're traveling right now, 76,000 miles an hour on this rocket called earth. in addition, we are a spinning 24 hours, we make a complete circle. things affect the environment, the weather changes, for eons. this thing about the ocean is going to wipe us out, the ocean has come through and divided the to the unitedrica states and south america. i believe it there because we're running out of time. what is next on climate change? what are you watching for? guest: if it does come through, there is severe pushback from republican lawmakers on the hill and also from the coal industry. whether or not obama is able to finalize those in time, it should be finalized, hopefully. the proposals came out earlier this year. we are waiting in june for the epa to push out its proposal for carbon emission limits for existing power plants. the proposal is already out there for new ones. that is something in the pipeline. that as well as the keystone pipeline, whether or not he will make you decision on it by june and whether or not that affects 2410 election cycle. there are things to look for. host: you can follow laura barron-lopez's reporting. thank you very much. up next, we will speak to jonathan allen and amie parnes right after this update from c-span radio. 31 eastern time. nuclearst round of talks between iran and six world powers have just ended. negotiators agree on a plan that aims to reduce concerns about iran posses nuclear ambitions. officials from both sides described plans as very productive. the next round of talks is set for next month. turning to the state of the union address call for an increase in the minimum wage, the president has e-mailed a statement to a clothing's tour signing onto the effort. he says he applauds the gap for announcing a decision that will benefit about 60,000 workers in the u.s.. they plan to raise their minimum to nine dollars this year and $10 in 2015. walmart stores, the largest private employer in the united states, says it is looking to support an increase in the min wage as well. speaking in a telephone interview, he says interviewing -- increasing the minimum wage those people who shop at the chain weekly would now have more income. >> civil rights, black power. march that begins in memphis in the beginning of june 1966 and three weeks later in jackson. you could make an art -- an argument in the three weeks that anduns -- it changes approaches a crossroads. the call for black power is first heard there. that slogan was unveiled midway through march and intermediate -- immediately generates controversy and a great swelling of enthusiasm among many local black people and it ignites a new direction in black politics. those changes might have happened over the course of time anyway. did is dramatized the shift because it brought together civil rights leaders and regular people, white and black, from all across the country, and put them into a asoratory a black politics they move through mississippi. always dramatic moments were created that highlighted key divisions and tensions but also key strengths. rightsok at the civil movement saturday night at 10:00 eastern and sunday at 9:00. about blackmore power and the civil rights movement. a historian will take your calls, comments, and tweets. live on c-span2's booktv. and, at the book club, you still have time to comment on february posses in-depth guest. read a women's history for beginners and then go to website to enter the chat room. >> the all-new c-span.org website is now mobile friendly. you can access our comprehensive coverage. want, when you want, and how you want. posses responsive design scales to fit any of your screens, from the monitor of your desktop computer, to your laptop, tablet, or smartphone, whether you're at home, the office, or on the go. you can watch c-span's live coverage. search our extensive video coverage whenever and wherever you want. c-span.org makes it easy for you to keep an eye on what is happening in washington." -- in washington. >> washington journal continues. host: we're back with two authors. .mie parnes and jonathan allen co-authors. what story are you trying to tell in this book about hillary clinton? a couple of storylines. one is her comeback story. i find it fascinating. i think anyone would find it fascinating. mostly how she would govern if she were president. this is her biggest management job. she manage a 70,000 person bureaucracy and how does she govern and what decisions does she make and who does she surround herself with? all of these things are highlighted in the book. if you are trying to figure out what kind of president she would make, what did you think you needed to say about her? >> we needed to figure out how makes decisions, what she puts an emphasis on, what her priorities are. she has had a lot of experience inside washington. nobody campaigns successfully as the ultimate washington insider. that might be good on television but not necessarily for presidential candidates. the truth is what we see with a lot of recent presidents is the inability to maneuver in washington and work with congress, a lack of understanding of how agencies and the private sector work and interact. we wanted an idea of her views on those things. is of the things we found that she is seen as having a bias for action, wanting to do things and be willing to take risks, calculated risks, but take some risks in order to try to achieve something. most politicians are risk-averse. host: what did you learn about , her personality, her decision-making process? guest: the bias reaction she has. she is a retail politician in her own right. we think of bill clinton as a gregarious guy but she does it as well. we tell a story about how she left the state department and cents 16,000 thank you notes to people, 5000 of them handwritten. quite a task. we thought that was interesting and also how she kept tabs on politics. to 112 away and travel countries, but she always had her pulse on what was happening here back home. host: why do you think that matters? guest: it matters in terms of politics. running for president, we detail how she cut the operation and continue to reach out to the business community, to supporters throughout her time in the state department, helped her husband settle scores on the campaign trail, held president obama with the election. it all sets her up in a better 2016, thanking people. a lot of times when presidential campaigns do not work out, candidates and and it is the end of the world for the them. not only does it help in terms of trying to win an election later, but it helps when you are trying to move them on public holocene issues later on. it is classic politics, the thing all old-school city mayors would do, and something that is one of hillary and invite these ways of reaching out to people. her husband has great charisma in terms of winning people over. she has got to work harder at that. it is interesting there is a lot in here about bill clinton and what he is doing at the same time that she is secretary of the state. why did you include that in the book? guest: they are interwoven. i see her as an individual person, but he is so much a part of her life. his story is her story. they are tied together for good and bad. host: would her aides like it? guest: i do not know they necessarily like the image. i know not all of these things in this book. land anda hillary eight the world and they make a claim you -- universe and there is a crossover when you have two principles with their own interests, sometimes, it lines up perfect we and sometimes less than perfectly. there are strategies for getting things done. a lot of conflict. did you hear from the former secretary of state? are not talking about who we got it from. we heard the reaction. it's reviews. some clintonites not happy with us. some happy and content with the book. guest: that is probably a good way to say it. one of them was this hit list where they tracked the people who do not treat her particularly well and then bill clinton went out on the campaign trail and not many of them out in the primaries. nobody in clinton land like that at all. that made news, but there was one part in here where you talk about claire, the senator, by how much she is disliked the clinton camp. why is that? to this day. it is interesting. she has come out early to endorse hillary clinton. to 2006.back the clintons had campaigned and fun raised for her and she was wasmeet the press," and she asked about president clinton, and she said something to the effect of, i think he has been a great leader but i would not want my daughter near him. that angered a lot of clintonites and following that, she made a quick to a friend saying, she would not want to be stuck in an elevator with her, which we found to be interesting. >> in 2008, she not only it sourced says in -- senator obama, but the issue of a fresh endorsement every day on television, they had -- the headquarters, people were cursing their tv sets every time they saw her on whichever show she would be on. they got very upset or you now where come full circle she is trying to get back into clinton posses good graces. hillary clinton herself and bill clinton will be gracious about that, but when you talk about their -- talk to their aides, they still hate that and it will not change anytime soon. >> i want to go back to her personality and what goes into it. your book. part of she has something driving her more than just power. a strong moral compass. this is a quote, that she leans into. she does not wear religion on her sleeve, but if you had any length of conversation with her as a methodist and talked with her about her faith, she will be very insightful. oft do you make of the role faith? >> is something she has spoken butt at times before, clearly, it is important to her. we found out she is on an e-mail chain with a small set of old friends. 2008, ah adviser in longtime clinton aide, jesse jackson before them. they s andss religious teaching stuff like that. she does not often want to go to church in public because she worries about disturbing other people's ability to worship because of the fanfare that comes along when she sleeps in with the secret service or state department detail. it is something that matters to her. her fate is in methodism, a strong component of public service in it. role to do as her things for the better good. not everybody agrees with her view of how that should happen or what is the better good, but it is something driving within her. you writes that played a role in her decision to accept president obama, many please for her to join his it ministration and take over the state department. guest: she dodged him a few times. went out to chicago and they sat and she said no and he said to think about it and sleep on it. calls aed his fault -- few times. what eventually happened was he offered it to her, and she said, let's talk conditions and called him back one morning and that was a sign. the way she explains it is, if she had been president-elect, and she had asked president -- senator obama to serve for her, she would have expected him to do it. she has a call for public service. she is a politician, but this is something she really believes in. >> there are more details to delve into from the new book, what her role was, what her responsibilities were, what she took credit for, what she did at the state department. we will get into that here. but howard is up first in pennsylvania. a democratic caller. caller: good morning. i think the to say middle-class class, which i consider myself a part of, whether you are a republican or independent or democrat, we are looking for someone to address the problem of our jobs going to china and india, bringing them and i thinkica, obama made a big mistake by emphasizing health care. i think the economy is number one and our jobs. that is all i have to say. host: you write about the role hillary clinton say -- played on president obama said he would push health care. secretary clinton was generally attempted to stay out of domestic politics, generally not the job of the secretary of state to get involved in politics. because she had been involved in health care in the early 1990's, there was a level of toxicity she might have for obamacare had she been publicly involved. behind the scenes, she was to presidentce obama's his top aides on her history with health care, trying to fight in the early 90's for insight. she spoke to a few lawmakers for the white house who were considering what they should do with their votes. we write about a cabinet meeting in 2009, right after the tea party summer in september 2009. basically all the cabinet members were getting upset and there was a lot of frustration and complaint are -- for the white house that their agenda was getting consumed by health care and health care would end up bringing down the party and the rest of the agenda. made anclinton impassioned plea for the cabinet members to get behind president obama. that is not an opportunity comes along like this very often. let's get this done now. told in the administration us they felt that was an underappreciated moment, but still a pivotal moment where she was bringing the force of her political weight behind president obama in front of all these leading democrats. >> you have in the book this picture of president obama receiving a congratulatory hug. clinton had pushed for health care reform when her husband had -- was president. the insistence the lobby past and she spoke up on the president's behalf. let's go to bob in illinois. independent caller. >> good morning. i look forward to reading your book. i have two questions. we are told we should not talk about the past with fast -- with secretary clinton. if she does run, looking forward, i wonder if you guys would rank her accomplishments as secretary of state. with russia, slowing down iran posses development with nuclear bombs, egypt, syria, benghazi, how would you rank those? we saw the photos when osama bin laden was taken down in the white house situation room. as far as we know, hillary clinton and the president were both in washington when that happened. in all your interviews and research, did you ever see a photo in the situation room or know where she was on that day? let's talk about her competence at the state department. of the biggest things is that she did support the president and was a big advocate for him on libya, the afghan laden,the rate for bin but i think the reset button is also a big moment for her. there are other moments i think john can also talk about. generally speaking, the united states was seen around the world after the first term of obama administration and she was a chief advocate abroad. relationships with european partners, some relationships in the arab world approved. that everything got better, but i think that was an important thing she contributed to. elevated development and diplomacy as part of american foreign policy for so long in the post-9/11 world. american foreign-policy was all combat. it was all military. that elevation of diplomacy as part of the foreign-policy mix was an important accomplishment and it would've been harder for some folks with less influence to do it as fast in the american government. >> what about weighing in on the controversial issues that the secretary of state has to take on. the middle east peace process. >> there is obviously no middle east peace. she did not get israelis to sit down and join hands. nor has anybody else in a long time. and the white house really wanted to control the -- those particular issues. she had a special envoy for the middle east. ended up quitting. so yes, she did not make a lot of progress with that. the last time there was an outbreak of violence in the area, the two brotherly palestinians, it was hillary clinton who went in and literally shuttled diplomacy between the israelis and palestinians and the egyptians to get a cease-fire in late 2012. we detail it in the book. she was skeptical of how long that would hold. it has held for about a year and a half so far. no long-term peace deal, but at least they're not shooting at each other. >> before we continue, it is really interesting. her one day came to she cametuation room to lunch, no one knew about it. her aide thought she disappeared for a little while. he actually wanted her buy-in. we think that is a pivotal moment. he saw she had a so-called bias for action that we talked about. he we really wanted her support on this and was important for him. i was a strong moment for her. really someone she aligned with and they shared a lot of opinions, but this was where they disagreed. >> vice president biden as well, who might run against her in the primary, generally that are in the democratic primary to be a dove, but she was the hawk in the national security meetings and biden was the dove and a president obama ended up taking a more hawkish position then democrats thought he would. she andrite that president obama were in washington the day of the raid. guest: the bin laden rate, yes. before the correspondents dinner, you might recall, there was a funny moment where there was a whole situation, what happens, what do we do if the whole thing interferes with the white house correspondent dinner and she used profanity and said, who cares? we are not allowed in the situation room but there is no reason to believe it was fake. you write president obama had to change his jokes because he knew what was about to happen later in the evening. not, lot of his aides did including his speechwriter. guest: they thought it was an interesting moment, like, why are we changing this. at that point, they did not know mitt romney would be a nominee. they went through a series of republican nominees and give them nicknames. they had to change it because they knew the raid was going down, so they changed it. that is one of the fun stories in the book. students's get some involved in the conversation. our big 12 conference tour. today, iowa state university, we have six political science students. i want to start with kristen johnson. go ahead, you are up first. good morning. such an extensive history. it seems remarkable hillary clinton has been able to keep such a positive image for most americans. i was curious what you thought of that? guest: resilience. this is something up and down and when she gets knocked down, she has not stayed down. for her adversaries and enemies, some of them at least respect the fight in her. for those inclined to like her, they see her as an inspiration in terms of coming back time and again. at one point, amy wanted to call the book of the phoenix because she thought hillary clinton was rising from the ashes one more time. we saw on the campaign trail in 2008, she was -- we see the echoes in 2016. as an underdog when barack obama was beating her, she suddenly gained more popularity and seemed more comfortable in that role. it is an interesting thing. a lot of people identified with the basic comeback story. we think that is one of the reasons the book is readable and enjoyable, whether folks agree or disagree with her. she had high numbers at the state department and largely was told by one of her friends, because you are not in politics anymore. as soon as she is coming back in politics, you're seeing that already. her numbers are coming down. her friend advised her one day in a car ride. were talking about numbers and she said, once you come back into politics, watch out here at your numbers are high now. i think the clintons are very aware of this sort of thing. gerald is next, a democratic caller in cow -- carolina. caller: how are you on this pitiful morning? -- beautiful morning? please bear with me. veteran.abled vietnam i have got a couple of quick items. i think what is wrong with america, one reason why hillary clinton keeps bouncing back, is that most americans do not confuse the definition of is with proof, versus accusations, which is without proof. we do not confuse that. the second item is benghazi, somebody brought up this morning. i understand that is a tragedy but most people leave out the senate report that just came out. page 20 and the top of page 21, when the ambassador refused security two times from december 16 -- august 16 until september 11, when the commander offered it to him. one last item, the situation over in syria, russia keeps intervening, the only report they have, why don't we just rented -- hong kong for about 50 years. we could settle the problem over there. with scandaln versus accusations. >> this interesting because of recent papers coming out. lewinsky a little more, and the 1990's, the clintons in the 1990's. they want to move past this. there is disagreement in the republican party about how to handle it. everything issay fair game. karl rove saying, not so much. there is so much to focus on right now, benghazi, where we dredging up the past? how tove to decide handle that. i do not think you will hear a peep from the clintons on that right now. host: a tweet -- guest: interesting. i think the book probably has the most serious, concise, ,ndependent, nonpartisan description of what actually happened in benghazi, what the foreign policy was there, the decision to go into libya, how hillary clinton first put the coalition together to go to knock them out of power, the effort that was put in there to normalize relations with the government, all the way through benghazi not only on the ground there, but in washington as well. then the aftermath, talking points, classified briefings on capitol hill, the famous moment shehe senate hearing when says, what difference at this point doesn't make? -- does it make? as far as benghazi goes, she says it was her biggest regret. there is no evidence the request for security in tripoli, a long-distance from benghazi, ever actually made it anywhere near her desk. she says she is responsible. the question for blame lies with the terrorists first and foremost. then there is a secondary uestion, anybody else? the caller mentioned and others weorting we heard since finished the book, basically suggesting, kristi vince wanted to be out there in dangerous places. -- talking to the linens -- talking to that e libyans. aether that should the decision and ambassador makes on his own is reasonable. i would recommend that readers, particularly read our parts on benghazi. we try to take a serious and fair-minded look. me go back to iowa, students from the iowa state university. morgan, go ahead. when it came to gathering research from your book, what was the biggest obstacle you faced? guest: good question. it was a long complicated process. we started a couple years ago in 2012 around the convention season. the research was really a particularly difficult thing, it was hard to get access. this is a very insular world. john and i had sources on the hill and at the state department , at the white house. we tried to cobble together our source list, talk to as many people as possible. we talked to more than 200 people. people who like her, don't like her, everyone. guest: it is unusual for two reporters to have completely different source lists. there is very little overlap between the people amie talk to and the people i talk to. that was helpful, we were really talkingg who we were to. another thing i found difficult, the state department summarily rejects a lot freedom of affirmation act requests that seem simple. we had a researcher helping us, you have to frame these things pretty carefully. i was surprised at the types of things that came back as rejection letters. makes me want to spend more time constructing requests. host: nancy, texas, independent caller. caller: i have two points of view. what we need in the white house -- we do not need all these politicians and old blood. we need new blood and leaders. host: got amie parnes your amie parnes point, nancy. point, nancy. amie parnes? guest: that is tough for the clintons, they have monica lewinsky and the 1990's. i think they would actually fare quite well. thet: that is one of reasons you see karl rove and republican leaders saying these scandals are not fertile ground, if it did not stick to bill clinton and hurt him politically, it is not going to hurt hillary clinton politically. who was more than a bystander but not much more. and, nearly all female democrats i know one hillary -- want hillary. guest: i am sure there are some female democrats who do not want hillary, it is a small minority. host: what about the female vote, i want to show from her concession speech in 2008. one line, a couple lines she put in there. and the talk about the back story. [video clip] [applause] we were not able to shatter that hardest glass ceiling, but thanks to you it has about 18 million cracks in it. [applause] the light is shining through like never before, filling us all with hope and knowledge that the past will be a little easier. time?amie parnes, next guest: it was arguably her best speech of the campaign. jim kennedy came up with that 18 which weracks line, discovered in the book. i think she is going to embrace it a little more this time, she was reluctant to do that during this particular speech, there was back and forth with one of her aides about how to address the fact that she was a woman candidate, i don't think she will have the same hesitance. guest: taking that speech apart, we do that in the book, there is a rhetorical refrain where she echoes sojourner truth, the abolitionist and seve uffragist. sojourner truth was famous for saying "ain't i a woman." hillary clinton is saying at the end, but i am a woman. sort of linking through sojourner truth the women's movement and the black civil rights movement. her way of getting supporters to see obama as somebody making history. that same logic could be applied should she be running for president, to be the first woman president, to talk to african-americans, hispanics, and others who have seen glass ceilings and went to see those come down. it is interesting to see those seeds planted and later in the convention speech, she uses harriet tubman, known as an abolitionist. a little different from sojourner truth, still using one arc of unifying in person the hopes of folks who wanted to see the first african-american president. host: let's go back to ames, iowa. matalin, go ahead. good morning. you described hillary clinton as a formidable states woman, drawing attention to her adoption of traditionally to achieveraits success. i was wondering, with hillary's success as a strong female leader, do you think she has inspired other fema candidates to defy traditional gender roles and the political realm? guest: she got advice throughout her campaign from people who let people know how strong you are. she had a series of sessions at her house that summer, she learned she should have done that a little more. it does signal you can be a powerful woman and embrace the fact that you are a strong female canada. guest: -- strong female candidate. guest: i want to know whether these students think hillary clinton could win the iowa caucus? i we have any more students, would like their opinion. host: we can have them think about that. dana says why did hillary resign? guest: it was never her intention to stay longer than four years, most cabinet secretaries do not stay on past a first term. therd air force one, president asked the secretary to hey on for another year, says will you stay? someone told us he did not put the screws to her, she did not want to stay, she left a few months later. guest: leon panetta had told him he was not going to stick around, hillary clinton was leaving, the successor for hillary clinton, susan rice, the one obama wanted, was getting destroyed on capitol hill over benghazi and the talking points on the talk shows. her charm to win over some of the senators, she ended up making more enemies than friends. where het a situation will have to have a new defense secretary, a new secretary of state. he has got somebody leaving who has become a pretty loyal and strong advisor to him. he thought we can keep hillary clinton for a while and find the next secretary of state, resurrects susan rice a little bit. interesting moment, she just says i am done. the impacthe think could be on john kerry's tenure, what he might accomplish. if shee overshadow -- decides to run in 2016 -- could he overshadow what she did? sure, he has a few years left, he is reaching for the stars, and efforts to clean up ria's chemical weapons, get iran to give up nuclear weapons, peace in the middle east. on iran, the state department under hillary clinton really started those negotiations. victory, john kerry will get credit, that is a shared victory. we also know there is a possibility for a lot of things to go wrong. a lot of folks thought they were the ones to go into the middle and solve the problem, as we see, assad is still solving his own -- is still slaughtering his own people. , given what ises happening in ukraine, how do you think hillary clinton shaped obama's decision-making process, how do you react in a situation like ukraine? guest: she made him more of a hawk. that surprised a lot of democrats, she brought him farther than he was willing to go. that is why leon panetta wanted her buy in on bin laden. what do you think? guest: we will see what happens with ukraine. for the u.s., we simply do not have that kind of power we would like to have internationally. there was a time when the u.s. would speak and other nations would respond. i think the american public expects there is something the u.s. can do to affect a situation. really, in terms of affecting foreign politics, often it is a long-term thing we can do through sanctions. it is very hard to do immediately. if you are in the ukraine and fighting for your life are fighting to put on a revolution, what the u.s. says or sanctions might not have any immediate bearing. host: talking about hillary clinton's career and her future with the authors of a new book, "hrc." ,"ie parnes of "the hill jonathan allen from bloomberg. this line from your book on libya. war." was hillary's hert: this could have been crown jewel, republicans think that was the attack they were taking, then benghazi happened. guest: in terms of it being her the presidents., and many of his advisers, including update -- including biden werend joe reluctant to get involved in libya. they were already involved in afghanistan and iraq, some knew there was a plan to go after bin laden, another strike on a sovereign nation potentially. europeansnally, the wanted a no-fly zone, americans thought that was ineffectual. you had to get arab nations on board. different politics within them, you had to get them bought in, they were bought into a no-fly zone, then i got turned around -- then it got turned around into a strike. a set of strikes to take out gaddafi. all that was done on the ground in various capitals by hillary clinton. she came back to president obama and said the coalition is here for this if you are willing to do it. put together this coalition, she had her stamp on it. host: terry, indiana, republican caller. caller: good morning. republican.aul but i love the clintons. guest: go figure. caller: when president clinton was in office, the economy was great. i am sure if hillary was the president, it would be great again. can i ask you why you think because it was great under bill clinton, why you assume it would be great if hillary clinton became president? she forgave her husband, he is still by her side, he would help her become a great president. host: she is a two-fer. caller: yes. marijuana should be legalized. if that is what she is for, i am cool with them. host: let's leave it there. guest: a good way to win colorado. that is a great example of a nton crossover voter, interesting to see what he would do a favor and against each other. the economy was in better shape during the clinton years than it is now, some of that is a result of policies that president clinton put in place. the economy goes in cycles and the presidents tend to get too much blame for what is going on. it is fair to say there was a clintonian worldview when it comes to how society should operate. the role of government and the private sector. what is interesting, the clintons seem to believe in both the government and the private sector and that they need to work together to move the country forward and have a economic growth. theblicans tend to favor private sector and have a skeptical eye of the government. democrats tend to favor the government, the clintons have a triangulation of saying we need the private sector and the government as well. would see her you adopt economic policies that were not too different from him. guest: you make the point of a two-for. people say it is a two for one deal, she has tried to establish her own brand away from him. she got upset when somebody asked her what is your husband think of this? she said i am the secretary of state. she has worked hard to separate herself and develop our own brand. host: let's go back to iowa, dakota, go ahead. caller: hillary clinton is a celebrity politician with a mile-long resume of qualifications. she is dealing with her husband's legacy, she is dealing with potential fallout from 2008, she is dealing with being the novelty of being the first female president, and then all of those preemptive strikes with her being in the front running for so long. i was wondering if you thought -- is she still a viable democratic candidate for 2016? host: let me turn that around? do you think she is? using she could win iowa? iowans i believe that are ready to see hillary clinton in 2016. guest: pretty bold prediction. i think she is a viable candidate for 2016 right now, if you look at the polls, polls change fast. she is far and away the leading candidate for nomination. she was that in 2008, a change. and leading republican candidates. what happens in the next few years. whether she is viable, i think she is. landscape is already set up for her, she has fundraising and researching going on, they are waiting for her to jump in. host: on twitter, did the dems show their war on women when they chose obama over hillary in 2008? john, pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: good morning. i have been around a little terser than the commen there, the guests. there has been a clear deterioration in the integrity of the political class. eisenhower --dent he would never consider. jimmy carter -- his post-presidency has been fantastic. he has been selfless, all for others. instance, whenor they retired and left office, when bill clinton left office, he was in debt. worth 5 years, they were $100 million. books, speeches. he want and was giving speeches for a 15000 a pop minute speech at financial firms, jewish community centers. host: do you think this hurts her chances in 2016? caller: the fact is, it is really not even discussed. host: amie parnes? guest: i think the clinton people would say they have done their share of good. the clinton has cgi, clinton global initiative, he travels the world and does good things. if a clinton aide were sitting here, they would point out. caller wouldhe call me on my youth and inexperience, it gets me. these are questions that will be answered in a presidential campaign. reporters will attempt to make. to them. we have a scene in the book where hillary clinton has to raise money for the world's fair in shanghai in a short period of time, the chinese has said it will be an embarrassment if the u.s. does not show up. under the bush administration, there was a decision to not support the world's fair. there was a loophole that allowed the secretary to have some involvement. basically, she hired a couple clinton fundraisers, family raises, to go out and money from the private sector, clintonped into the donor network to build a pavilion at the shanghai expo. showing how involved some of those old donors were to her work at the state department. we have a scene and there will bill clinton inscribes the coffee table book from the shanghai world expo for one of those aide.s s. he says "we did it, buddy." concerned that his network was going to be a conflict at the state department. i don't think we saw that publicly over the four years, any scandals. was not anitely complete disentanglement of the two clinton worlds. about,ne thing you write the lessons she learned from the two thousand eight campaign. how she applied them to being secretary of state. her first five months at state, she had poured mental energy and resources into making sure that her operation was far more forward leaning that her campaign had been. aware that technological superiority could become the force behind a second bid for the presidency." lesson,he learned this she saw barack obama run circles around her campaign and turns of technology. she said what went wrong? she plucked one of his people and brought him over to stay. he started this movement, she implemented a lot of what she learned that state -- at state. i think if she were to run in 2016, she would do the same. host: does she have a team built? team, thereas the are a number of new age tech warriors who grew up studying under innovators like jerry cohen, he was a condi rice protége. , a crowd of people who are even younger. they were figuring out how to use technology to affect political movements abroad. train revolutionaries in another country to upload video of the atrocities going on in their country. you can use gps and text messaging to try to warn people of troop movements. you can raise money for the haitian earthquake victims. all these things they could do to affect political activity abroad could be turned back into a political campaign in 2016. host: she meets with the heads of technology companies and says to them use me like an ad. guest: isn't that interesting? guest: she may not be able to we say she understands technology. there is a joke, she is a person who is detached from the actual mechanisms that are involved but very well aware of how people and organize. what she is saying, in this case, it was in terms of companies being able to do foreign policy, doing commerce abroad, talking to foreign leaders, in some cases threatening foreign leaders. we get into that with syria. she is saying i want to be helpful to you in spending -- expanding your footprint in a way that helps the u.s. and its foreign-policy goals. a woman who said she asked her doctor to send her first -- her daughter to send her first text message and bill clinton was receiving faxes. host: let's get our next student. go ahead, nicole. caller: good morning and thank you for having me. my question is about your brand," youed "hrc mentioned the photo diana walker took that turned into an internet sensation. did that have an effect harming her reputation and brand for young adults because of that picture turning into a joke? guest: you might have a better perspective on that than we do. i had not heard that, that does not mean it is not true. there may be a segment of young voters who think it is ridiculous and shows she is trying to be in touch and is out of touch. there is a careful line you have to play with popular culture. as -- is president obama cool because he listens to jay-z or is he just an old guy who listens to jay-z? she is obviously trying to capture some of that magic. host: she use of that picture on her twitter page. guest: she realizes that a human eyes as her, people had this image of her as being a buttoned up woman who did not come through, she wants a lighter side to come through. host: tim, illinois, independent caller. caller: good morning. how are you? i would like to say i don't believe hillary clinton should be blamed for her husband's dalliances. she could be considered an enabler. the subject i have not heard, we have heard a lot about what she thisrecently about -- at point, what does it matter. i would like to hear somebody issue when file gate hillary clinton was first lady. host: jonathan allen? guest: that is not something we went into in the book, we were focused on the end of 2009 to 2013. we felt like most americans, voters who were trying to judge her and how she makes decisions, needed a better picture of what she was doing at the state department. we did not get into file gate, traveled gate, she fired folks, the impeachment. -- mosthat stuff is americans who will be voting in 2016 have a pretty good handle on those issues. host: why did you title it "hrc "? guest: interesting question. i actually wanted to call it "the phoenix." people actually call her hrc. e-mails, we thought it was a hip way to refer to her. host: does it go to her brand? what is her brand? guest: i don't think "hrc" is something people knew she was called. it comes from the hill, all the members of congress are referred to by their aides by their initials. barack obama was bho. so, that is where it comes from. as a result, when you see e-mail communications as a reporter, you see e-mails from people. they refer to her as "hrc." we just thought it was simple. it was easy. hopefully, it brands the book more than it brands her. host: fred, pennsylvania, independent caller. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. a couple questions on hillary's career. before president clinton became president, he was governor of arkansas. if my memory is working, it was a big white water banking savings and loan scandal in arkansas. on the internet, hillary worked for monsanto as an attorney. host: what is your point? caller: you are saying she is a viable candidate. is it -- what are we not getting? why are these things not brought up? tweet,- host: this is a we already know all the skeletons. will havehink voters that debate if she runs in 2016. the senatee that hearings on benghazi happened in the same room, hart 216 room, where the whitewater investigation went on. it is not that these things were not discussed. you might remember the chairman of the banking committee at the time, the whitewater committee, going after whitewater pretty hard. some of the subsequent scandals grew out of that. that is pretty plowed turf. benghazi, you write about after ambassador stephen'' body was brought back, there was a moment -- maybe after they get the news. president obama asks of the secretary of state if he can go back with her to the state department. why? her,: it meant a lot to aides described this. it meant he was heartbroken over it. him toed -- she wanted come and see the people, see the faces at the state department who were so heartbroken. that moment really did mean a lot to her. guest: and to address them, to talk to the people who had just of their own, including ambassador who was extremely popular. the foreignne in service with him who had remembered him as standing out. people like chris stevens. president obama can to the state department that next day after he had give remarks in the rose garden. he made some unscripted remarks to the people at the state department. host: was it reported on? not, ihis comments were do not think there is a recording. the fact that he was there was reported on. his basic sentiment was recorded. afterwards, he met with people who had been close to chris stevens, hillary clinton introduced them by name to the president. people at the state department we talk to who were not in the clinton world cited that moment as a big day in terms of trying to get in the morning and the healing process to begin. it meant a lot to a lot of them that the president was there and that secretary clinton had brought him there. host: john, vermont, republican caller. caller: two questions and i comment. for amie, early on in the show, you mentioned that hillary had her finger on the pulse of everything going on. i know that benghazi thing has come up. eventually, they blamed that on a video and sent there. over the country landing benghazi on a video. i thought that was a little strange that you would make that comment. in researching your book, both you and jonathan, did you read a body,"lled "ron brown's published in 2004. it is a very insightful book on the history that is being talked about this morning with both clintons. i would recommend anybody to read it. wndas published in 2004 by books. host: ok. the benghazi video. was a movingk it target at that point, they were trying to figure out what was happening. trying to piece together what was happening. they might have erred into doing that. host: did she refused to go on sunday talk shows? put on?susan wrighrice guest: hillary clinton goes on when she needs to. when she is trailing in a campaign and needs a moment, she will do it. generally speaking, her bent is to stay away unless there is a compelling reason. there was other stuff to do, i think she recognized the potential political danger. this is me-- speculating -- maybe felt it was inappropriate for her to be on television when there was so much to do in terms of trying to figure out what happened. know, once she was not available and bookers for the tv shows have gone through the state department and the white house asking for her, they quickly moved to susan rice, susan rice use talking points that had been negotiated. one out beyond what some of those talking points said. ambers of congress decided, lot of members, including some republicans, decided she had lied to the public on the television shows. hillary clinton have been doing briefings on capitol hill where she had talked about armed militants going to the compound. her people who listened to talk about armed militants thought she had said terrorists. the distinction between armed militants and terrorists. she felt like she was telling them one thing and susan rice was telling them something different. host: what is one thing you learned? thinkingcame into this that she was very buttoned up a bigt -- there was not human side to her. she not only is quite funny, she has a wicked sense of humor. this feel of public service, a duty for public service. one of the biggest things i learned, behind the shell, all politicians have it. service women in public should develop skin like a rhinoceros. is some raw there energy and emotion. about decisive, you hear things she said to her aides and her reaction to things like the white house correspondents dinner and the bin laden raid, say she profanity to did not want to think about the effect of the dinner. raw humanome pretty emotions -- good, bad, indifferent -- in a way that some politicians are more careful about hiding. says she is not as cap good as her husband in terms of political -- an aide says she is not as calculating as her husband in terms of political payback. host: "hr amie parnes and jonatn allen, authors of "hrc." a big thanks to our students at iowa state university. thank you for the questions. we are going to open up the fonts -- the phones. weigh in on public policy and politics. jobless numbers in this hour show the number of people seeking benefits fell by 3000 last week. to a seasonally adjusted 336,0 low.ayoffs remain the labor department says the four-week average of applications rose slightly. millionof 3.53 americans received benefits as of february 1. million therom 3.52 previous week. as for consumer prices, the labor department says they rose as a sharp rise in energy cost was offset by cheaper clothing, cars, and airfares. the figures suggest inflation remains a mile. prices have risen 1.6% the past 12 months. turning to politics, the ap reports this year's senate incumbents and hopefuls picked up more than $.5 million a day last year, signaling 2013's off your cash boom will bring campaign ads this year. democrats on the ballot in 2014 raise more than $108 million last year, besting republicans. incumbent democrats outpaced income but republicans by more than 2-1, outspent them by almost 3-1. both parties have roughly the 80 million. banked, $ 35 senate seats in play this year, democrats will be defending 21 of them, republicans need a net gain of 6 seats. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. they wanted me in that spot for two reasons. he thought i could handle it. people,, he wanted young people of both races to come into the supreme court room, as they all do by the hundreds and thousands, and somebody to say -- who is that man there? he is the solicitor general of the united states. thurgood marshall served as solicitor general to the johnson administration from 1965 to 1967. , concluding the series of oral history interviews with supreme court justices. m, washington at 90.1 f online, and nationwide on xm satellite radio 120. >> c-span, we bring public events from washington to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings and conferences. and offering coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry. c-span, created by cable tv 35 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. watch us in hd, like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. "washington journal" continues. host: we are back and open funds for the rest of today's "washington journal." you can start dialing in, republicans, (202) 585-3881. democrats, (202) 585-3880. independents and others, (202) 585-3882. send us a tweet, @cspanwj or post comments on facebook, e-mail us. are already lined up. george, illinois, republican caller. response am calling in to a comment made by a gentleman, to which mr. allen did respond briefly. i believe not quite adequately. i have not yet read the book. he gentleman who called, asked only about one particular involving hillary clinton. that was what became known as a file gate. that travelsponded her rolefile gate and in the impeachment process were prologue, i do not recall the word. my point is -- travel gate received more publicity, as did the impeachment process. than did file gate. file gate involved the sudden appearance, in a most strange and appear -- and mr. is when -- someone' appearance on s bed of files that have been subpoenaed from a law firm, one of the arkansas-based scandals. whitewater resulted in no conviction -- host: why do you bring it up? caller: it has never been adequately explained by the clinton people. it was one of her top aides, i recall seeing her on television, and african-american lady who the discovery, she discovered the files. she worked for hillary. it was the strangest thing, these files had been unaccounted for, nobody knew where they were, they were being subjected, it was the of a prosecutor's investigation. they turned out and were found by one of hillary's top people. host: john, minnesota, democratic caller. caller: hi, thank you. host: what's on your mind? people i hear a lot of denying climate change. it is interesting when you look at where they are coming from and the backgrounds and the industries -- like the trucker that called in and then the coal miner. interesting to look at where people are getting their ideas from. you guys are taking different views so we can hear where people are coming from. host: you heard the truck driver say that when you go to greener technologies, this latest announcement from the president, it impacts his industry. caller: exactly. -- because't think you have an economic interest in this, you should deny science. people are changing all the time, they have to evolve in their jobs. there is different technology that comes along. i just think people need to look at where the deniers are coming from. host: we started out the show this morning talking about the situation in ukraine. after a truce was agreed to yesterday, it fell apart. this is a live feed from reuters. the violence has erupted, bbc news is reporting that at least 21 protesters have been killed by security forces in kiev. witnesses have said some type of a result of single gunshot wins. witnesses reported live rounds, petrol bombs, and water cannons. european union foreign ministers are meeting with the president of ukraine, that was happening earlier today. we heard from andrew kramer, new york times reporter covering the situation in kiev. they are looking to see whether or not the president will call a what willmergency and happen in parliament in that country. a lot unfolding live. go to reuters' website for a live feed, lots of information. an englishkiev post, speaking newspaper out of that country. "the wall street journal" weighs in on ukraine america. americans are waking up to the crisis, but they should care how this turns out. the u.s. should want to pull ukraine into the western orbit as a matter of human dignity and strategic interests. a europe eating ukraine can -- a europe leaning ukraine can fulfill the aspirations of its people. carl, west virginia, go ahead. caller: what i have to talk about -- maybe it will concern you. cc are toying with the idea of sending people out to different newsrooms and different newspapers to find out why they are reporting on certain stories. and why -- what are they reporting on. this is a failed attempt to silence fox news -- this is a veiled attempt to silence fox news. bernsteinting for -- ixon'sto nex shenanigans. the irs thing that is going on now, the media is not covering it. this is one of the most dangerous situations. you see what is going on in that european nation. do you think that couldn't happen here? host: are you talking about ukraine? government is trying to snoop into the newsroom and steer the stories that you're putting out and using the irs to silence their opposition. this is dangerous. host: here is another tweet from the abc news reporter kirit ra dia. wants toine skier maidan,testers at unable to book a flight home. many athletes have withdrawn winter olympics in protest. on the divestment side, usa today has this story about the sec. new net rules. the federal communications commission will begin work on new rules of the road. tom wheeler announced that he wants staff to begin crafting rules that the commission can vote on. last month, a court struck down the fcc's net neutrality rules. update on what is happening with net neutrality. company will raise minimum hourly wage. page 465,000 of its 90,000 workers in the u.s. -- it would raise pay for 65,000 of its 90,000 workers in the u.s. minnie? caller: i would like to highlight for the world how arrogant and inhumane the governor of georgia is. accept thesed to federal government's money to expand medicaid. his name is nathan deal, he is up for reelection later this year. recently went through a snowstorm here in atlanta. tohas said that he is going be asking for money from the government to help with the cost taking care of the snowstorm. i would like to point out how arrogantly selfish and stupid that is to deny people access to health care, free access. it will not cost the state of georgia a penny for three years, he does not want to accept that money, but he will ask the government for money that he spent putting sand on the streets. ridiculous. host: anthony, new york. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my comment is in reference to parnesk "hrc" by mrs. and mr. allen. they are both acting as apologists for hillary clinton. inconceivable that hillary clinton acting as secretary of state did not know that this was a terrorist attack in benghazi. that is my comment. host: keith, indiana, republican caller. take careey need to of what is going on in this country. the president needs to focus on the needs of american people here. he is talking about things that should have already been taken care of. ok, at the end of the vietnam war is when this really started happening. ok, he don't need to worry about these other countries. that is a problem of their own. he needs to take care of the children, the people here. he cannot take care of something he lacks knowledge of. he has not fought a war, he has not done anything in a hard work force, he can not physically do the jobs that american people have done. he cannot stand on the side of an iron worker, a construction worker, a steel worker, and get his hands dirty. 8 hours to 12 hours and physically work with men and women in this country. he does not need to play i know how hard it is. get in there, work 12 hours, come back and tell the american people i know what it is. i feel your pain. host: bill, washington, dc, democratic caller. caller: i would like to talk about ukraine. the u.s. has a weapons system based in alaska called harp. it can send signals around the world that will excite the emotions of people. bob woodward and andrea mitchell are on tape talking about this. we have a conversation by our ambassador to ukraine, this woman, who has ever occurred saying we want to put such and such person in power. it is pretty obvious we are using this weapon to stir up the emotions of people in ukraine. we have an ambassador saying we are going to pick and choose the next leader. host: you think the u.s. is behind what is happening there? caller: not only there, but syria. host: go to our website, www.c-span.org, we had the former ambassador for the u.s. 2 2006.ne, from 2003 he talked about the history of the background of what is going on in that country. go back to our website and listen to that first hour. weets from members of congress reacting to what is happening in ukraine. by reports of ongoing violence, ukrainian government must respect democratic rights of its citizens. says i remain deeply concerned about violence in the ukraine. read his statement there. levin, we call on all sides to take steps to de-escalate the situation. rush, calling for peace in ukraine at a chicago rally. from members of congress tweeting about the situation over the most recent day. paul virginia, independent. caller: two comments. the guy that called about the climate change and saying look at where the people are coming from, the deniers. let's look at the opposite side, the ones who are saying climate is changing and it is man-made. let's look at the money they get. the majority says that we are the ones doing it, the scientists are getting my from the government. host: jim, alabama, republican caller. caller: good morning. i think hillary clinton has her twouch, other than terms in the senate, has been forced on the american public to do her husband -- due to her husband. she has proven herself to be disingenuous and not truthful time after time, file gate, t benghazi., i think she is going to put her foot in her mouth if she decides make a boo boo like landing under fire in kosovo. host: here is a tweet, why don't goper's worry about finding a candidate? ukraine.more tweets on senator robert menendez heads up the foreign relations committee. time for sanctions because of human rights violations. john mccain and senator murphy of connecticut ar draftinge -- fordrafting legislation sanctions. the foreign affairs committee tweeted this out. betty, the lamellae, democratic caller. caller: john mccain should retire, lindsey graham should retire, congress should require -- should retire. greta, some of the commentator, you never know what politics they are. when republicans call, it is a glorified thing. you did not address the president as president obama. you need to do better and address the president has president obama. host: a follow-up story to yesterday, homeland security is canceling national license plate tracking plans. the secretary said on wednesday the cancellation of a plan by the immigration and customs enforcement agency to develop a national license plate tracking system after privacy advocates raised concerns about the initiative. ice solicited proposals from companies to compile a database of license plate information from commercial and law enforcement time readers. carol in texas, nevada caller/ -- independent caller. just talking about growing up. before i did things i did not say i could not do that because i am a republican. , parties, if you are a democrat, you are for abortion but against god. this that and the other. if you are a conservative, you are a god-fearing person. it is the division. because of the labeling. just because of the way you vote does not make the way you feel about certain things. seeing a bunch of kids playing games with peoples minds. if you listen to talk radio every day, there is anger. my husband is angry. just by listening to that garbage they put out there. host: tweeting in about ukraine. all mayhem is created by the government in the u.s. weighs this morning, nsa retaining data for suits. considering enlarging the nsa's anlection of phone records, unintended consequence of lawsuits seeking to stop surveillance programs. a number of lawyers believe federal court rules on preserving evidence related to lawsuits require the agency to stop routinely destroying older phone records. also, on the affordable care act, here is "the washington times." a challenge to obamacare subsidy has been rejected, a judge in virginia has thrown out a claims obamacare subsidies should only flow to residents who live in a state that decided to run its own insurance market. briann, you are last -- phones.in open caller: hi, i wanted to comment on the ukraine. i was sitting here and listening to you and as the ukraine athletes started withdrawing from olympic competitions, i have to tell you that i think it is so sad that athletes around the world are doing this. the olympics were put in place as a means to global french. countries that normally would not come together under peaceful circumstances,
that political games have gotten in the way, and they are affecting how these kids are getting to the olympics. how many times will people get to the olympics in their lifetime, really? it is really sad. when i was growing up, the olympics were not a political statement, you know? i mean, they were friendship between global countries. host: thank you for all of your calls. we'll be back for your comments tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. enjoy the rest of your thursday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] ♪ violent crashes have erupted again in the ukrainian capital of kiev shortly after a truce was appeared to have been reached last night. more than 20 people have been killed today, to bring the death toll to over 60 over the last several days. the head of the security administration resigned, saying we must the guided only by the interest of the people. this most recent update now, from the associated press, the ukraine interior minister says 67 police have been captured by protesters. we expect to hear more from the situation in the ukraine and there will be a press briefing from the white house with josh earnest. we are also asking you on our facebook page to weigh in on what you think the u.s. role should be in the conflict with the majority of you saying the united states should say out. you can share your thoughts, join in on the conversation at facebook.com/c-span. looking at our scheduled in primetime tonight, starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern, the u.s. editor in chief for "the guardian" newspaper talks about how they broke the story about former nsa contractor edward snowden. she is part of a panel organized as part of a year-long project entitled "journalism after snowden." 8:00 p.m. eastern. tonight, we will talk with two u.s. senators. senator heidi hyde can talks about how her name went from mary margaret to heidi. >> i grew up in a small catholic community, and when i was growing up, the two classes, whether it was first and second or third and forth, they were into classrooms, and there was a small group of girls. there was a lot of marys. there was mary beth, mary jo, mary catherine. my parents never called me mary. my name was cathy. i best friends name was cathy. she decided in the third grade that she would rename me. she was a voracious reader and had already read hundreds of books by the time she was in the "heidi" was one of her favorite books. she gave me the name and it sucked. .> -- stock -- stuck his namehune on how was changed. >> my grandparents came from norway and they did not know english, but they were asked by immigration officials to change their name because they thought it would be too difficult for people to spell and pronounce. jelsvlk, so when they got to ellis island, they asked them to change the name the name of the farm near where they lived, farm.was thune they had a sponsor in south dakota, and they came out to work on the railroads. profile those quote tonight starting at 9:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org. president obama was in mexico yesterday for a summit with north american counterparts, accident president enrique pena presidentmexican canadianena nieto, and prime minister stephen harper. they addressed current violence in the ukraine. the leaders held a news conference last night. this is just under one hour. [speaking spanish] >> ladies and gentlemen, now with us, the president of the united mexican states, mr. enrique pena nieto, the president of the united states of america, his excellency enrique pena nieto -- his excellency mr. barack obama, and the prime minister of canada, his excellency mr. stephen harper. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, good evening. your excellency, president of the united states of america, barack obama, prime minister of canada, stephen harper, once again -- i would like to welcome you to our country. it is a great honor to have hosted you for the north american leaders summit here in the state of mexico, toluca in the capital city. a state i had the great honor of being a governor of before i took office with the greatest honor in the world of politics, that is to lead the course of my country. that is why i am very glad we have had the opportunity of having this meeting. i would like to congratulate myself for creating a space where we have had dialogues, where we have outreach to our countries and where we have strengthened our friendships. the one space where we have met, it is very different. from what the teams of men and women representing mexico in sochi are having in russia. they are in very cold weather and fighting hard to win a medal. i would like to present to you a summary -- i would like to summarize for the media and for the delegation the scope of our meeting. i would like to share with you -- we have two highlights in our meeting. a bilateral with president barack obama and his delegation and their counterparts from mexico, to address the following. i would like to share this with you. first of all, we assess the breakthroughs related to the agreements made during president obama's past visit in may to our country. now, i must note that mexico runs top of the list of the most visited countries by president obama. we were able to make progress on the agreements. how much we have advanced the exchange between high-level officials, to precisely boost the trade and commercial relationship that mexico and the u.s. have. we have also analyzed the possibility of setting forward mechanisms to build and fund strategic projects. we have agreed to work on a proposal that would help us find different mechanisms to fund projects so that we can give our infrastructure new life, and to have safer commercial transactions between our countries. we talked about education and we have to have more academic exchanges. so that more mexican students can study in the united states and reciprocally, students from the united states can come to mexico to study. the number of students so far is somehow low considering a potential that we have. out of the 14,000 students, we have set a goal. that is to increase year by year this figure, and reach 100,000 students a year that visit the united states and 50,000 students from the u.s. coming to mexico. we have revised our security agenda and we have agreed to maintain a strategic dialogue to coordinate efforts so we can face a common issue, security in both of our countries and specifically, security at the border. on the other hand, i would like to refer to the outcome of the north american leaders' summit. i would like to share with you the highlights in terms of the agreements reached. we have worked on four main topics. the first one is to foster shared and inclusive prosperity. we have agreed to work on a plan to boost competitiveness. we also have agreed to work on a north america transport plan. that would give us better infrastructure in our three countries to make the commerce that happens between our countries thrived. we also agreed to standardize and expedite all the procedures that take place at our customs house. we have also agreed to enable the movement of individuals. by this, trusted travelers progress as we have a program of this nature with a purpose in mind that all the travelers that are part of the trusted travelers in our countries, is considered a vetted traveler in north america. additionally, in terms of the topics we addressed, i must insist in terms of our national agenda with the united states, we have added canada to work on a program to train professionals by increasing our academic exchanges and ensuring mobility of students between our three countries. we have also agreed to foster sustainable development, working towards the mitigation of the effects of climate change. in the area of sustainability, we have also agreed to work on the preservation of the monarch butterfly. this is a landmark species in north america. this is a species that we have agreed to work a task force to preserve the monarch butterfly. then, another topic is citizen security and regional topics. we have agreed to give privilege to the exchange of information and we have also privilege to coordinate efforts between law enforcement authorities. we will reinforce the measures aimed to fight money laundering and illicit financial flows area for that purpose, we need to integrate our financial systems further. we have also restated our commitment to support and cooperate with the central america as well as the caribbean because they are partners in this hemisphere. we have committed to foster development, economic growth and citizen security as well. basically, i have summarized the commitments made during this summit. we have committed, the three of us, to give follow-up to all the agreements made. we, besides making agreements, we have committed to give follow-up to each one of these agreements and we have committed to make them happen. finally, i would like to share with you that in order to reach our goal, we need to identify that north america is quite valuable. the free trade agreement executed 20 years ago and the intense dialogue that we have between our three countries in the north american region is very valuable, and every exchange is based on trust. we share a very good relationship. all of us will lead our countries. this north american leaders summit has been a very good opportunity to specify what our commitments will be and what are the tasks for the future. it has also served as a space to restate our friendship, good relationship that we have, and the respect that we pay to each other. we have committed to work hard to make significant contribution, to make north america a more competitive region. i would dare to say the most competitive region in the world. this is a region with a true calling for prosperity. we will work to provide better well-being to the citizens of our country. we have made great strides. we create plenty of jobs due to the economic relationship we have managed to achieve. we want more development. we are aware of the potential that we find in north america. i make a pledge so that the seventh summit of leaders of north america serves its purpose. once again, we welcome -- i would like to say that i hope you have had a very doesn't stay stay -- pleasant stat in toluca. i hope this visit has been very fruitful. i hope we are able to build an even stronger relationship. thank you. [applause] >> buenos noches. to the people of toluca and the people of mexico, thank you so much for your instrument rate -- extraordinary hospitality. thank you for welcoming us to your hometown and home state, which like the beautiful surroundings tonight, reflect mexico's proud history as well as the economic dynamism of today's mexico. i want to thank president's pena nieto and prime minister harper. for the united states, canada and mexico, two of our largest trading partners support millions of american jobs. thanks in part to our efforts to boost american exports to canada and mexico, they are continuing to grow faster than exports to the rest of the world. our countries have strengths that give north america a tremendous competitive advantage. the skills of our workers, manufacturing is growing, and new sources of energy. we have to take advantage of these competitive advantages and we need to do it together. all of this positions us to be a powerhouse of the global economy. that is why we are here, to make sure that we are doing everything we can to the more competitive and create more jobs. in canada, and mexico and in the united states. we are focused on making it easier to trade. earlier today i signed a new executive order to make it easier for companies that want to export and import. instead of dealing with dozens of different federal agencies, we are going to create a one-stop shop. online, so companies can submit all their information in one place and save themselves time and money. we are going to keep investing in infrastructure like roads, bridges, border crossings, so our goods are getting to market faster. we have agreed to keep working to make it easier for our business people and tourists to trade and travel. we are going to step up our efforts to streamline and a limited regulations, the red tape that can sometimes stifle trade and job creation. we have agreed to keep working to complete negotiations on the partnership including strong protections for our workers and the environment so that we can compete in the fast-growing market of the asia-pacific. because it will prove the u.s. economy and make the united states more attractive to investors. and because we have to do right i our families and our values. immigration reform remains one of my highest priorities. i am also very pleased that we have agreed to keep expanding educational partnerships. our young people will develop the skills they need to succeed in the global economy. this builds on my initiative that we call 100,000 strong in the americas. we want more students from the united states studying throughout the hemisphere. we one more students from places like canada and mexico studying in the united states. that will serve them and serve our country as well for decades to come. we continue to deepen our clean energy partnerships with creech -- which create jobs and battle climate change. the united states will develop new fuel economy standards for heavy-duty trucks, standards that reduce carbon pollution. all three of our nations have agreed to work together to meet high fuel standards for these heavy-duty trucks. more broadly, we agreed to join with our central american and caribbean partners on a regional energy strategy that builds on the command and -- the commitment i made in central america last year. on a global level, we agree to keep standing together as we push forth to phase down the production and consumption of dangerous hydrofluorocarbons. number 3, we know that realizing our full potential as individual countries and as a region means confronting the criminal traffickers who unleash so much violence on our citizens. here in mexico, the security forces make enormous sacrifices in that fight, and our three nations are united against this threat. in the united states, we continue to be committed to reduce the demand for illegal drugs and we will continue our unprecedented efforts to combat the southbound flow of illegal guns and cash. and finally, given our shared commitment to democratic values, i want to take this opportunity to address the situation in venezuela and ukraine and the unacceptable violence in those two countries which the united states strongly condemns. in venezuela, rather than distract from failings, the by making up acquisitions -- accusations against the united states. along with the organization of american states, we call on the venezuelan government to release protesters that are detainment and engage in real dialogue. all parties have an obligation to work together to restrain violence and restore calm. with regard to ukraine, along with our european partners, we will continue to engage all sides. we continue to stress to president yanukovych and the ukrainian government that they have a primary responsibility to protect the kind of terrible violence we have seen, to withdraw a riot police, to work with the opposition, to restore security and human dignity and move the country forward. this includes progress toward a multiparty government that can work with the international community on a support package and adopt reforms necessary for free and fair elections next year. ukrainians are a proud and resilient people who overcome extraordinary challenges. that is a pride and strength i hope they draw on now. i urge the military and ukraine to show restraint and let civilians pursue the dialogue necessary for progress. we have seen reports of a truce between the government and the opposition. if the truce is implemented, it could provide states with a way to resolve their disagreements peacefully. we will continue to do whatever we can to support ukrainians as they seek a peaceful solution in response to the aspirations of the ukrainian people for a strong, unified democracy. i want to thank enrique and the people of mexico for their wonderful hospitality. if we stay focused on our shared vision, then progress in each of our countries will me more more -- will mean more prosperity and opportunity for everyone. thank you very much. [applause] closed --spanish [speaking spanish] >> allow me to start out by thanking president pena nieto for his generous hospitality. we have had a wonderful stay in this wonderful country in mexico. we are eager to come back soon. today i had fruitful meetings and dialogues with my commercial partners from mexico. in regard to services, information and also shared and fundamental values, and of course our democratic and peaceful world, today we celebrate the 20th anniversary of nafta. as time can tell us, this treaty was successful and it started guaranteeing prosperity from one extreme to the other of the hemisphere. the volume of exchanges is fourfold now. over $30 billion. we have now seen exponential growth and can hope for exponential growth in years to come. we are in agreement to say that we can still grow the success of nafta to implement new ways. for instance, in regard to the transpacific alliance. peace negotiations should be for the best. we need to create employment. this is the key to revitalize the economy and foster prosperity, not only for the canadian populations but for the -- our populations at large. our government will keep working in expanding the free trade and commerce with partners in north america as well as the asia-pacific region and worldwide. since we want to have access on the other side of the atlantic, since we have the free exchange agreement with europe. today, president obama, president pena nieto and myself have dealt it to -- have delved into many topics. especially the world economy at a local regional level and competitiveness, north american competitiveness. we are truly enthusiastic with this idea of collaborating together. we shall keep on working together to make and to take a profit of all the occasions for the well-being of our populations. we will host the forthcoming of the summit in canada. i would like to add a word in regard to the situation in ukraine. there has been a truce, but it is essential that we take action. at the end of the day, the ukrainian government has to be held responsible for settling this situation. the ukrainian government took actions, actions that were not only unpopular but actions that put at risk nature and the aspirations of ukraine becoming an independent nation. >> we have had a wonderful time here in beautiful mexico and i look forward to returning again soon. today we had productive meetings with canada's closest friends and trading partners, partners with whom we share goods, services and information and also fundamental values and a vision for a democratic and peaceful world. this year, we mark the 20th anniversary of the north american free trade agreement. as only time can reveal, the agreement has been an overwhelmingly successful and is responsible for creating prosperity from the bottom to the top of the continent. there has been a fourfold growth in bilateral trade over the last 20 years that now exceeds $1 trillion. it is estimated that the marketplace will continue to expand exponentially in the decades to come. we agree that there is enormous potential to build on the success of nafta a new ways. most notably, through the transpacific partnership. we are focused on bringing those negotiations to a successful conclusion. developing trade is one of the keys to job creation. it is the key to economic vitality and it is the key to long-term prosperity, not just for the canadian people, but for all of our people. that is why our government will continue to work to expand trade with our partners in north america, the asia-pacific region, and around the world. just as we did last year when we expanded our access across the atlantic through the conclusion of the canada-european union comprehensive economic trade agreement. in our meetings today, residents pena nieto, obama and i discussed a range of topics already discussed by my colleagues including the state of the global economy, international security and north american competitiveness. we share a genuine enthusiasm for closer collaboration. the presidents's and i will continue to work together to address the challenges of the 21st century. i do look forward to hosting the next north american leaders summit in canada. and i look forward to hosting the next american leaders summit in canada and would like to conclude with a word on the situation in ukraine. we're encouraged to hear the news of a truce. while this is good news, this kind of news, these kinds of words are only meaningful if they are put into action and ultimately, it is the regime that is responsible for resolving the situation. it is the regime that created the situation, not by taking decisions that were merely unpopular, but by undertaking decisions that went against the very nature and aspirations of ukraine as independent state. for that reason, we hold the government responsible and urge them to take all of the steps necessary to resolve the situation and to put ukraine back on the democratic and euro atlantic path that the ukrainian people desire. [applause] >> another round of questions, jason mcdonald will introduce the canadian journalists asking the questions. >> omar from ctv news. mr. president, good evening to you. canada offered to work with the united states and joint rules to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the oil and gas sector. you have said the keystone xl pipeline won't be approved if it's significantly worsens climate change. the state department reported keystone will not have a significant effect on climate change. so my question to you is what more needs to be done on both sides of the border for this project to go ahead? prime minister, i would love for you to weigh in on this as well. >> i stated previously, there is a process that has been gone through, and i know it's been extensive and at times i'm sure steven feels a little too laborious but these are how we make these decisions about something that could potentially have significant impact on america's national economy and our national interest. the state department has gone through its review. there's a comment period in which other agencies weigh in. that will be evaluated by secretary of state kerry and we will make a decision at that point. in the meantime, steven and i during a break after lunch discussed working together around dealing with greenhouse gas emissions. this is something that we have to deal with. i said previously how keystone impacted greenhouse gas emissions would effect our decision. but frankly, it doesn't affect all of our decisions at this stage because the science is irrefutable. we're already seeing severe weather patterns increase. it has consequences for our businesses, for our jobs, for our families, for safety and security. it has the potential of displacing people in ways that we cannot currently fully anticipate. and we will be extraordinarily costly. i welcome the work we can do together with canada. one of the wonderful things about north america is we had this amazing bounty of traditional fossil fuels and we also have extraordinary businesses that are able to extract them in various ways. and that's something that we should welcome because it helps to promote economic growth. but we only have one planet. so i believe that ultimately we can both promote economic development and growth, recognizing that we're not going to immediately transition off of fossil fuels but that we do have to point to the future and show leadership so that other countries who will be the main emitters fairly soon, china, india, other emerging markets, so that they can look at what we're doing and we have leverage over them in terms of them improving their practices as well. this will be a joint effort. i'm very excited to work with steven around those issues and keystone will proceed along the path it's been set forth on. >> let me just say a couple of things. first of all, obviously, president obama and i had an exchange on this. my views to favor the project are very well known. his views on the process are also equally well known and we had that discussion and will continue on that discussion. i would say two things about the process. first, on the issue of climate change, which is a shared concern. can the united states have a similar target at the at the international level? we already cooperate in several sectors in terms of emission reductions. but in terms of climate change i think the state department report already was definitive on that particular issue. the other thing i just want to draw attention to just because i think it's useful to point out the benefits to canada is the reform that we have done in environmental review and assessment of projects in canada. as you know, a couple years ago we moved to reform our system so we have a single review wherever possible, single review, multidimensional review, that happens over a fixed time line. i think that is a process that's tremendously useful in giving investors greater certainty in terms of kind of plans they may have in the canadian economy. translator: and now i shall repeat my comments in french. we, president obama have put the cornerstone and i can only echo on the american process president obama already proposed on. i would like to comment in regard to process n regard to climate change, we do share these concerns not only the united states but worldwide. we are already collaborating in many sectors to abate the green gas effect emissions and at the same time we have -- we understand that the state department conclusions are quite correct that we wish to forward investments throughout another america so we have established a review of systems for our period in determined and precise time line and these get much better results for our investors. >> next question from the traveling u.s. press goes to jim kunin of the associated press. >> prime minister harper, mr. president, i would like to ask you about trade. do you worry that longstanding opposition to trade deals in the from the president's party and some republicans pose a threat to the transpacific partnership and in your minds, is it essential congress approve it or at least give the president fast track authority this year or can it wait until after the u.s. elections in november? mr. president, if you would like to chime in on that as well. you mentioned parochial interest today. i would be interested in knowing how you plan to bring your democrats along. but i had a question -- >> how many questions you have, jim? >> just one, sir. >> you know i have to answer that one too, right. that was a slick move. >> the common denominator in the strife in ukraine and syria is the support that those two governments get from russia. i'm wondering, sir, if you believe that president putin bears some responsibility for the intransigents of those two regimes and to some degree has this gone beyond just those two countries and has it become a tug of war between two world powers? >> let me answer this briefly on the trade issue. it's not accurate to say my party opposes this trade. there are elements in my party that oppose this trade deal but elements in my party that oppose the south korea free trade agreement, colombia free trade agreement, panama free trade agreement, all of which we passed with democratic votes. so what i said to president nieto and prime minister harper is we will get this passed if it's a good agreement. and the key at this point is to make sure our countries, which hold ourselves up as champions of free trade, result our legitimate, national interests in these negotiations so we can present a united front against a number of the others in the negotiations that don't have as much of a tradition as free trade. and that is to our advantage precisely because north america has this amazing comparative advantage and we're already relatively open markets. part of our goal here 0 to make sure the asia pacific region, faster than any play in the world, has larger population than any place else in the world. that they have a model of trade that is free and fair and open and allows our businesses to compete and allows our workers to make goods and deliver services that those markets are purchasing. we can only do that if we raise the bar in terms of what our trade models look like. i said this to some of my own constituents opposed trade. those are who concerned about losing jobs or out-sourcing need to understand some of the old agreements put us at a disadvantage and that's exactly why we need stronger agreements that open up markets to our agriculture products, that make sure that when it comes to government procurement or sovereign funds in these other countries that they're not taking advantage of our businesses and preventing us from competing there. that's exactly why we've got to get this done and i'm very appreciative of the shared vision and commitment that prime minister harper and president enrique pena nieto have on this issue. now, with respect for syria and ukraine. i do think it is worth noting you have one country that's been a client state of russia. and another whose government is currently been supported by russia, where the people obviously have a very different view and vision for their country. and we have now seen a great deal of turmoil there. that arose organically from within those countries. i don't think there's a competition between the united states and russia. i think this is an expression of the hopes and aspirations of people inside of syria and people inside of the ukraine who recognize that basic freedoms, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, fair and free elections, ability to run a business without paying a bribe, not be discriminated against because of your religion or your beliefs, that those are fundamental rights. that everybody wants to enjoy. mr. putin has a view on many of those issues and don't think there's any secret on that. and our approach in the united states is not to see these as some cold war chess board in which we are in competition with russia. our goal is make sure people of ukraine are able to make decisions for themselves about their future, the people of syria are able to make decisions without having moms going off off -- bombs going off and killing women and children or chemical weapons or towns being starved because a despite wants to cling to power. we will continue to express those national interests. there are times i hope where russia will recognize that over the long term, they should be on board with those values and interests as well. right now there are times where we had strong disagreements and when i speak to mr. putin, i'm very candid about those disagreements. even as we will continue to pursue cooperation with russia on areas where we had shared concerns. but i want to emphasize this, the situation that happened in ukraine has to do with whether or not the people of ukraine can determine their own destiny. and you know, my government and vice president biden and i personally have expressed to president jankovic the need for him to recognize the spirit of the ukrainian people and work with that. as opposed to trying to repress it. so we will continue to stand on the side of the people. my hope is at this point that a truce may hold but steven is exactly right. ultimately the government is responsible for making sure we shift towards some sort of unity government, even if it's temporary, that allows us to move to fair and free elections so that the will of the ukrainian people can be rightly expressed without the kinds of chaos we have seen on the streets, without the bloodshed that all of us i think strongly condemn. >> on the issue of transpacific partnership, we are wanting to see and committed to seeing a good, comprehensive, transpacific partnership trade agreement. i think it's in all of our interests for the reasons that have already been laid out. with that said the government of canada's position is always clear in these matter that's we will only come to an agreement when we are convinced the agreement has been in the best interest of canada. we will stay at the table as long as it takes to get to that particular situation. and i think we have the track record to prove it. our government, current government, canada, is trying more trade agreements than all previous canadian governments combined. what i will say is this -- i'm not going to comment on the process in congress. what i will say is this -- the reason i said what i said about working until we get an agreement that is in the interest of canada is we will have to an agreement that can be sold to the canadian parliament and ultimately to the canadian people. and that's what we're aiming for. [speaking french] translator: i repeat in regard to the transpacific agreement, alliance, the -- and in regard to our relations with the asia pacific region, we have our own perspective and we will negotiate up to the point where we will have an agreement on the table. and we need -- we need to show that our administration has subscribed more agreements than any other previous administrations -- administrations. so, for the canadian government, it is essential to note that we can submit these proposals to the canadian parliament. i have always stated we have been part of the negotiation rounds to eventually reach an agreement of this important opportunity that the t.p.p. offers. we can expand the potential of north america into the asia pacific region. mexico would do its best to be on the side of the solution. overcome this agreement and eventual vote the negotiations rounds present. we hope if -- in this spirit that we reach agreement mexico has made a commitment and has shown political will to be part of the transpacific partnership. i hope that the deal happens. that is the mexican extent and we will work to the best of our ability to reach this goal. now on behalf of mexico, miguel from the mexican editorial orginization will ask a question. >> good evening, everyone. in light of the fact we celebrate the 23rd anniversary of the efforts made my mexico, united states and canada, we have nafta for 20 years, i would like to ask the president of my country, what is the outlook of the northern part of this continental development? and what are the challenges for the development that we have hoped for, that we are expecting and i would like to ask the president of the united states of america, mr. obama, and mr. harper, prime minister of canada, what is the engagement we should expect? what is your commitment to make this region north america that we have 13 1/2 months of your administration, mr. enrique nieto and you partner, neighboring countries, what is your take on this 13 months and a half of the mexican president? thank you very much for your reply. >> translator: i believe we have been very candid in terms of the huge strength we see in north america after 20 years of the free trade agreement. our trade has been able to thrive. we have more commercial exchanges. we have more investments in the region and to date we have integrated, that is changed, between our three countries that is that we are adding value this products that are offered in this great market. we are fully aware of the economic growth since so far we are fully aware of the creation of jobs in north america. that is why we have committed in this summit to take on action that would help us strengthen our economic ties further. to coveted to enable trade to have better infrastructure to have safer exchanges and to make our trade be easier. these are agreement we have made today and we have also acknowledged the enormous potential and future we see on the horizon it would be based on the strength we have built upon over the last of the course of the last 20 years and let us acknowledge we are three countries that we are three democratic countries, three countries who believe in free trade and our country have found a space to create jobs and have more developments in our nations. >> as we said throughout our meetings today, america's success, mexico's success, canadian success, are all bound together. i think if you just look at the facts mexico has made enormous strides over the last several decades and in part that is because we have seen a greater integration of mexico in the world economy. i think the united states and canada have played constructive roles in that. our ability to trade with mexico created jobs and opportunities in our country as well. so it's been a mutually beneficial partnership. based on self-interest but also, as enrique said, based on common values. and we have seen a consolidation of democracy here in mexico and i think the kinds of reforms that enrique initiated over the last 13 months are ones that will put mexico in the stronger competitive footing in the world economy, in the years to come. i recognize they're still implementation issues that will be involved and healthy debate here in mexico. i'm confident given the talent of the mexican people, that the resources of the mexican people, given the growing capacity of mexican businesses and given the fact that we as a north america entity constitutes a huge trading block and economic powerhouse around the world, that we should anticipate mexico's growth to continue, standards of living to continue, jobs and opportunities to continue. and that's what we hope for all of our countries. i'm confident that the partnership we developed is good for the united states, creates jobs in the united states, helps businesses in the united states and if we continue to cooperate and try to reduce some of the barriers that have been in the past slowed down our commercial exchanges as well as educational exchanges, we will be successful. >> allow me this is our perspective -- canada has seen great success but the development of mexico throughout this time period that is 20 years has been unbelievable socially, economically, politically, and mexico is becoming a world of power and we see this raising profits with the support of president nieto. we have made comments on the challenges to meet. i think the greatest one is the need to keep on increasing the flow of goods and services and information across our borders at a time where risks and threats to security are also increased across the borders. and that will be the greatest challenge to meet. >> look, i think the national relationship as i is have said before has been tremendously successful to all of us but i think looking back 20 years, the development of mexico and all of economical, social, political over the period has been incredible. it's a process that's accelerating under president pena nieto's very bold vision for the future and mexico is increasingly becoming a global economic player. you asked about challenges. i think the biggest single challenge is in an era where we are seeing a need to see, even greater movement of goods services, people, investments, borders, but at the same time, the risks and threats to security across those borders continues to rise. will be a challenge to grow human and trade flow while at the same time minimizing the risks. >> president needed to would you like to take the floor so you close theently meeting. >> yes, i would. once again, i would like to congratulate myself for this event. we have built a climate based on and respect, and we have worked toward a relationship where it is very clear in terms of the responsibilities of each of the heads of state. i am certain this relationship will result in greater integration, stronger friendship, and whatever we do for the sake of north america will benefit our peoples. i would like to give further testimony to how grateful i am toward the authorities of the state, the governor of the state of mexico. i would like to thank you for enabling the summit to take place here. i would like to thank the chief justice justice of the state of .exico they provided us with their facilities, and i would like to thank the inhabitants of the capital city of toluca for their hospitality. i thank them. all of like to thank them for the conveniences and all the preparation work and all the security operations needed for the summit. i am very grateful towards them and very grateful for the hospitality you been to the president of the united states, barack obama, and prime minister of canada, stephen harper. have aou very much, and safe trip home. thank you very much. >> president obama came back to the white house late last night. no public events scheduled for today, although he is meeting with governors this weekend for the annual governors association winter meeting. c-span will have coverage of those meetings. check our schedule online to get further details. looking at our schedule in prime time tonight, the editor of the guardian talks about how they broke the story of edward snowden. university journalism school organized the event. it is part of a year-long project called journalism after snowden. that starts tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. with twowe will talk u.s. senators about their personal lives, careers, and some interesting facts about their names. senator heidi high camp tells us how her name went from mary catherine to heidi. >> a group in a small catholic community. classes werehe two all in the same classroom. was a same time, there small group of girls. there were a lot of mary's. there was a mary beth, a mary and, mary jo, and mary catherine. my parents never called me merry. my name is kathy. but my best friends name was cathy, so she decided in third grade that she would rename me. so, she was a voracious reader and had already read hundreds of books i think by the time she was in third grade, and heidi was one of her favorite books. she thought it was great alliteration, she gave me the name heidi, and it was some -- and it stuck. talk withwe will senator john thune. >> my grandfather and great norway to over from ellis island. the only english words they knew where apple pie and coffee, which they learned on the way over. in norway was gjslvik. they were asked to change their name. they settled on the soon farm. they got through ellis island and had a sponsor and came to work on the railroads. tonight starting at 9:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span radio, and c-span.org. here is the latest from the associated press on the unrest in the ukraine. a top medic for the protesters says at least 70 activist's were killed in kiev on thursday. this is on top of reports that there were 67 police captured by protesters in kiev. video footage showed protesters leading police around a sprawling protest camp in central kiev. one of the opposition lawmakers says the police are being held in city hall, which is occupied by protesters. the president nor the opposition leaders he met with are in control of the chaos engulfing ukraine. theill hear the latest from white house on the ukrainian situation during today's press briefing set for 1:00 p.m. eastern, and we will have live coverage here on c-span. we are also asking for your on the rolements the u.s. should play in the conflict. the majority of you say the u.s. should stay out. earlier this morning on washington journal, we spoke with a former u.s. ambassador to ukraine about the events that led to the protest, the role of russian president vladimir putin, and the role the u.s. should play in helping to resolve the conflict. this is about an hour. >> to better help us understand what is happening in the ukraine, we are joined at the table by john herbst. he was the former ambassador to the ukraine. thank you for joining us this morning. how do we get to where we are now? guest: there is great dissatisfaction, not just among people in the center and west of the country, but even in the east with his role. corruption, which is a major problem in the ukraine, has become worse. under his stewardship. you had his rejection of the trade deal and tens of thousands of protesters came out to protest. he made the mistake of cracking down. violently. ukraine is not russia. it is not china. the crackdowns are not well received in the public. we had tens of thousands of demonstrators demonstrating on one day. after the crackdown, we have hundreds of thousands in the streets. the numbers have ebbed and flowed ever since. the protesters are insisting that he give up our. -- power. they may say they want a ukraine that has democratic freedoms. those freedoms were developing under his predecessor. host: who are the protesters? guest: they appeared spontaneously. the protesters that occurred -- the protests that occurred in 2004 were planned by the opposition parties. these have more in common with arab spring protests. these occurred spontaneously after he broke the trade agreement with the eu. people came out in the streets addressing their frustration. you have opposition leaders in the ukraine. they only have some influence with the protesters. they do not control them. protesters are bound and determined to bring concessions out of mr. yana kovacic. -- yanukovich. host: is there more than one group? guest: there are multiple groups. it is less groups than people. there are hundreds of thousands of people. there are some groups within them, but i would not put stock among the demonstrators. it is not as if there is a single group that speaks for more than a few hundred people in the streets. host: what you make of the violence? we are showing our viewers right now video from two days ago. guest: ukraine in the post soviet. -- post-soviet time they do not , have a traditional violence. this is a turbulent period. it reflects the heavy hand of viktor yanukovych. he used force to try to clear the streets. he does not seem to have the ability to use the major mama -- amount of force necessary to clear the streets. the armed forces from his perspective are not reliable and he cannot count on them to turn arms against fellow citizens. the police, the main apparatus for exercising control, also not reliable. he has had to use the special police unit. even they are not completely reliable. there are people that do not like the idea of firing on their fellow citizens. this may explain why the standoff has lasted so long. host: there was a reference in the paper two thugs. -- to thugs. guest: they are thugs who are hired to do the dirty work so the regime can claim they have nothing to do with the dirty work. they are out in the streets. there may be a few hundred of them. these are simply people who they hire, where is the people in the streets are committed to a new and better ukraine. that is the real story. this crisis has lasted for three months, despite the fact that it is in wintertime. temperatures drop well below zero. it has lasted this long because there are only two possible ways to resolve it. either viktor yanukovych has to use mass repression, or he has to offer a serious concession. he is not ready to do that. he has offered a lot of half measures. he fired the prime minister, offered it to --. the reason he did not take it is because under the ukrainian constitution, viktor yanukovych can give him that job and fire him tomorrow. he has no real authority if they do yana kovacic does not want him to have that -- if viktor yanukovych does not want him to have that authority. host: this is a statement put out on the official website of the ukrainian president. this is from earlier today. radical protesters lots and ascension of -- launch an offensive on the lawn forced officials using firearms during the declared truce. all attempts of the government to establish dialogue and revolve -- resolve the conflict work ignored. these firearms including sniper rifles, they shoot to kill. law enforcement officials are not armed and used special means. all measures to stop bloodshed and confrontation are being taken. guest: that is excellent propaganda in order to justify a crackdown if they try another one. even that statement is not the most efficient propaganda. look at the numbers that talk about. dozens or scores of fatalities and injured. we know that there are many thousands of injuries among the protesters. the statement is that the police are not using firearms and they are not using librarian action. that is false. any examination of the injury sustained by thousands of protesters proves that is false. host: here's a tweet from an abc reporter. he tweeted out diapers targeting news crews filming from windows, including abc's camera. guest: that doesn't surprise me. they don't want an accurate portrayal of the story. one of the things viktor yanukovych did was shut down channel 5. it is owned by a member of the opposition. it was important during the orange revolution, conveying news about what is happening. it was important in this crisis, conveying real news. targeting western journalists are just a step up from what he is doing by targeting -- by shutting down channel 5. he can solve this crisis tomorrow by offering a real concession. he has not been willing to do it. for him, maintaining power is important. host: foreign ministers of european countries may have wrapped up their meetings with the president today. the eu called an emergency meeting to vote on sanctions later today. what do you make of this effort? guest: that is very important. the people doing the nasty things in the ukraine government are not driven by a strong ideal or ideology. they are driven by a love of power and the ability to become rich by being powerful. if the eu were to sanction individual ukrainian officials responsible for the violence, refusing visas to come to europe, take action against their financial assets in europe, this would weekend the -- weaken the yanukovych regime. if a person's riches are in danger by carrying out these policies, they will stop doing it. host: should the u.s. do the same? guest: we issued a visa sanctions on about 20 or so ukrainian officials. i hope we would move towards some financial sanctions. our impact will be less than the eu's, because it is where -- because the eu is where they park their money, much less than the united states. i think we have done a good job so far. we have spoken out in support of democratic processes in the ukraine. we have cautioned the demonstrators to avoid violence. we lead the way on visa sanctions four weeks ago. we have been in touch with viktor yanukovych and others to express our concerns about what is happening. maybe we should move to financial sanctions, but i don't think this is a tool we should use on a broad scale. let's choose one or two people and let the europeans choose one or two people. the idea is not to punish folks. it is to encourage them to stop doing nasty and violent things. host: you see this economically and diplomatically, not a military? guest: it is not a military matter. even in the ukraine with the fighting, it is not a military issue. the ukrainian military has not been involved in political affair since the country became independent. during the orange revolution, the military made it clear that they would not accept a crackdown on protesters. the military so far this crisis has been studiously outside of the whole contest. one thing mr. yana kovacic this week, he sat the chief of the army. the fear is that this man may be interested in helping the government crackdown. the head of the ukrainian security services issued an outrageous statement yesterday talking about the demonstrators as terrorist and that he was going to begin an antiterrorist operation. he does not want to be naked a loan repressing the ukrainian -- le, this is not an option -- and operation of just my service. they do not want to repress the ukrainian people. host: john herbst is our guest. he served from 2003 to 2006. what should the role of the united states be? mark, brighton, massachusetts. caller: i would like to bring up the recent conversations which were brought to light of the u.n. best -- the u.s. ambassador who was candid about what the u.s. and eu was, which was to bring the ukraine into the european union and into their fold and away from russia. my question is, if we are doing that, what would we do if there was outside the capital of ec, -- of d.c., people through maltz of cocktails s molotov cocktails at police, do you think they would move them down with machine guns? i think you have been reading too much pat buchanan, who is not at all familiar with the situation in the ukraine. first of all, you completely mischaracterize the phone conversation between tori newland and jeff. what they said, they talked about how they would like to see the opposition respond to the last offer from mr. yanukovych. tori newland was reported to say it would be a good thing if -- became the prime minister. if the other gentleman remained outside the government. that is all they said. if you listened to my conversation with greta, the opposition rejected the proposal to take the prime minister. of course american diplomats have the opinions about individual matters in ukraine. that does not mean we control it. you mischaracterize the demonstrations. the demonstrations were peaceful from the start. the first violence was applied by mr. yanukovych. there have been several efforts since then to crackdown on the demonstrators. depression has been overwhelmingly a tool implied -- employed by the authorities. you haven't seen organized repression and violence on the part of the demonstrators, except in defense. the casualties suggest there are thousands of casualties among the protesters. there are not hundreds of casualties among the police. host: the usa has no role in ukraine as president obama has made us no longer a superpower. another says if it is a civil war, i don't make we should have any role, unless we started up. another says we need to keep our nose out of it. i want to get to those sentiments. is this a civil war, and our role, but first, andrew kramer is joining us on the phone. he is in kiev. what is happening there now? guest: i am standing in the square and there has been a resumption of violence this morning. it began about 8:00 this morning when there were gunshots. there was quite a bit of gunfire. i heard gunfire coming from the police. it was a scene of mayhem. host: does it continue now? caller: there is --guest: there is a temporary lull. i suspect they will declare a state of emergency this afternoon. the opposition leaders have a plan to hold a recession of parliament. host: what does the state of emergency mean? guest: he could bring in the army to declare martial law and try to restore order in the capital. host: the president met with the foreign ministers of european countries. what is the news coming out of that? guest: i have not seen the news from that. i have been out on the square today. host: what were they going to talk about? guest: i think the delegates would be raising me threat of sanctions against ukraine. there have been discussions about the eu joining the u.s. in sanctioning officials deemed to be responsible for the violence. host: there are reports that there is sniper gunfire coming at cameras. bbc world news tweeted out a picture as well. have you witnessed this? guest: yes. there has been quite a bit of sniper fire on the square this morning. when i was out, there were rifle bullets whizzing by in the square. there was shot gunfire, which is a more standard crowd control measure. a doctor has seen some loans from a shotgun -- some wounds from a shotgun shot. host: a doctor was saying there were wounds to the eye of a patient they were seeing. guest: those would likely be from the concussion grenades. outside my hotel, there were 11 bodies on the sidewalk. some of them had been hit by real ammunition. whatever caused their deaths, it was not a concussion grenade. host: what are the crowds like, compared to the previous days? guest: the crowds are large. many of them are wearing makeshift armor and construction helmets, skating pads from in-line skates, caring baseball bats and gloves. some of them are also carrying guns. there's also a good number of people that look like they might be from kiev, bringing groceries and supplies, but the mood is tense. they have been capturing policeman and parading them through the crowd. i saw one man struck by a protester. there has been plenty of violence, so i do not want to say this is general. we are showing a live feed from reuters. they have one of their cameras set up so people can go to their website to watch this. this area that we are looking at, is characterized as calm, compared to what you're talking about. your hotel is outside of the square? guest: it is right on the square. host: how are you able to cover this story? guest: the police had approached from two sides of the square. their intention was to cause people to leave, not so much to trap them over the last two days or so. road testers have built a -- protesters had built a defensive barricade within about 20 yards of the main stage and then they ate knighted a large -- ignited a large bonfire of tires. that was the ring of fire that was intended to keep the crowd a control vehicles away from the stage after some of the vehicles had burned. this was kept up for about a day and a half. her testers moved from outside -- protesters move from outside their barricades and pushed the policeman back. host: are you concerned for your safety? guest: i am being careful. host: let's talk about the death toll. it has reached 35 or more. how are you getting information about how many have been killed? guest: the information from the classes on tuesday was from the health ministry of the ukraine. i think their numbers may be off by one person. today, i do not know. i saw what i think is nine bodies on the square. i saw them bringing in wounded and dead people on stretchers. i think the final death toll is not determined. host: what are you watching for today? guest: i think it is important to see if yanukovych declares a state of emergency. he could declare this type of violence is unacceptable in the center of its capital. whether that would have an effect is unclear. also, the opposition planned to use parliament to take back power by changing the constitution. that could be a development today. also, i am just watching the square. host: andrew kramer, with "the new york times," stay safe. what did you hear? guest: he gave a good description of the assumption of violence. i think he was shrewd to observe that mr. yanukovych consid -- considering a state of emergency, but he is not clear what that means. it is important, although probably not, but is likely they will not succeed in making reforms. if mr. yanukovych of his allies to go with the opposition, you would have constitutional reform which would be the way to end this crisis peacefully. during the orange revolution, the two sides were at a standoff. the second round of the presidential election was falsified. the government recognizes they cannot maintain this election. they agreed to a third round of the vote. they also insisted the government -- the government insisted on constitutional reform. this is exactly the same technique to avoid confrontation. host: this tweet that -- let's show that to our viewers. host: we want our viewers to weigh in. a video of the mayor announcing leaving the ruling party in protest over euromaidan violence. guest: we thought it might be the loss of the beginning of internal cohesion. mr. yanukovych was able to stop that. if this became a common phenomenon, it is a possibility. host: more evidence of people shooting. fort lauderdale, florida, democratic caller. caller: i do not think the u.s. has any role in what is happening. when you look at the republicans and they keep saying there is no money for unemployment and this and that, how can they find money to go into another war. we do not need to be a part of anything else. it will be an amount of time before you see john mccain saying let's arm these people in the next people. you give them rifles and you don't know who you are giving them to. as for the president, stay out of it. we do not want to be involved in another war. let's focus on the problems we have here and put our own money here to help our people. host: john mccain put out a press release calling for sanctions against ukrainian persons. they are drafting legislation. that could come to the floor for a vote next week. we will see how this develops. do you want to weigh in on what she had to say? guest: i have all expressed a concern that the united states would intervene in the ukraine. i think this is a natural concern. we have been very incompetent in our deployments in iraq and afghanistan. in libya, we did not do well. this is a different situation. we should be active in ukraine. i have talked about that. i am not talking about sending american troops or billions of american dollars into the ukraine. i'm talking about acts of diplomacy. it is in our interest that the ukrainian people have a chance to live in a democracy. it is in our interest to promote democracy. we should do this. it is part of creating a world that would be better for american interests. host: until the economic problems that the people feel in ukraine are dressed with them in mind, they appear at the end of their rope. what is their economy like? that is a smart observation. one of the main reasons for this great frustration with mr. yanukovych is the fact that ukrainian economy has been sputtering along and all the president and his allies seem to do is to make sure that they can steal ukrainian resources. the president's son, alexander has become a wealthy man because they are able to buy government assets at bargain basement prices. that is why mr. yanukovych wants to hang onto power. host: what are their resources? guest: they have serious industrial capacity, chemical industries, serious agricultural assets. they have the largest transportation system of gas pipelines in the world. there are assets that can be privatized. host: this is the cia factbook. they put together the numbers on all the different countries. this is what they say about imports and where they get their import partners. 32% from russia. china, nine percent. this is from 2012. their export partners, russia, 25%. turkey, five percent. egypt, four percent. what about russia's ties economically and otherwise, politically, to the ukraine. guest: those ties are large. it is also true that the cultural ties are substantial. people talk about the division in the ukraine between the east on one side and the west on the other. the east is looking towards the west culturally and the west looking towards europe culturally. ukraine needs to have a good relationship with russia. having good relationships with russia does not mean that ukraine should be forced into the eurasian economic union. it is a disastrous idea for economic development for not just the ukraine, but for russia itself. the principal businessman in the ukraine, the oligarchs, including those in the east of the country, understand that ukraine's economic interests lie with europe. russia does not like that under mr. putin. they have threatened economic boycotts. for mr. putin, establishing control over ukraine is more important than the prosperity of the russian economy come or perhaps he does not understand economics. host: what role has putin played in the violence that we have seen? guest: this is overwhelmingly a ukrainian story. putin's role has been uniformly negative. they threatened to boycott, they have urged mr. yanukovych to crack down the demonstrators. the point man of the ukraine has justified a violent crackdown. every time yanukovych comes back from seeing putin, he is restrained. host: "wall street journal" -- "americans are only waking up to the crisis. they should care how this turns out. they should want to pull ukraine into the western orbit as a matter of human dignity and strategic interest. a europe leaning ukraine can join the company of free nation that fulfill the aspirations of its people. a ukraine tilted toward the corrupt authoritarian regimes allied with moscow will be a source of regional unrest at best. guest: there are some legitimate points in that editorial. there is some purple prose there as well. certainly the united states would prefer if ukraine reached an agreement with the eu, but our policy has been driven, not so much by ensuring the ukraine turns to the west, it is driven by support for ukraine's democratic aspirations. if yanukovych rejected the deal with eu and not cracked down on the demonstrators, american diplomacy would not be in high gear. we are responding to the violence in the ukraine on the part of the government. there is a famous statement by john quincy adams, i think he said it when he was secretary of the state. the united states is the well was sure of everyone's freedom, but only the guarantor of its own. for people who believe that, i think all of your callers expressed that sentiment, what we are doing in the ukraine is more in the way of well wishing than intervening. our "intervention" is very small and surgical like. host: on twitter -- "stay out. if they want help, they can ask." here is another one. guest: i think that is admirable. i think the eu would endorse that sentiment. the kremlin will not. when i served in ukraine, there were two issues that were relevant. one, whether the ukraine should join the eu, the other was whether ukraine should join nato. the russian position was in no way should ukraine join nato, but no problem if they joined the eu. since then, the position has shifted. as the prospect of a closer eu-ukraine relationship grew, they said no. russia stopped all ukrainian exports at its border as a way to say to the ukraine, you will suffer if you make a deal with the eu. host: here's another tweet. host: he has a picture of a priest with a gas mask. skip, virginia beach, independent caller. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. good morning, mr. herbst. i have to react to your first two callers. mark, from massachusetts. he asked the same question i was thinking of -- how would this country respond to protesters, and mr. herbst gave a diplomatic answer. the lady from florida said we do not need to get involved and i agree 100% with her. how do you think this government in this country would react if other countries around the world might think they're type of government should be installed in this country? i love this country, i do not want any change in the type of government, but how would we feel if other countries wanted to put their type of government into our country? guest: i think i gave you the answer from john quincy adams. i do not think that there is a problem in the united states being supportive of democratic freedoms. that is what drives our policy in the ukraine. i imagine you would not support a violent crackdown on peaceful demonstrators. that is how this began. the demonstrators only became violent, and i would not overstate the violence. it happened after weeks and weeks of repression by authorities. i can understand why you do not want united states to get involved in a major way in the ukraine, but i do not understand why you would not want the ukrainians to enjoy the same freedoms that we enjoy. host: who is the president? yanukovych -- i met with him frequently. his is a very unusual story. he was a convicted felon as a young man who turned his life around and became a successful bureaucrat and a major leader in independent ukraine. his political fortunes prospered and he became prime minister and eventually the presidential candidate in 2004. he lost the presidential during the orange revolution. after he lost that vote, everyone assumed his political career was over. he did not assume it. he recognized he was dealing with a new ukraine where there would be democratic elections. he campaigned in the eastern and southern part of ukraine. he restored his role as the leader of the opposition at that time. he won a free and fair presidential election in 2010. once he was in power, he wanted to make sure he would not leave power. he has instituted repressive measures ever since. his behavior has been wretched. host: possibility of war crimes? guest: i am leery about saying this man has blood on his hands. he has a great deal of power. if there is going to be a peaceful resolution so that from this day or tomorrow that there is no more violence, you will have to make a deal with him. if you say he is a war criminal, you are saying he has no acceptable compromise. i can understand why people in the square who have seen their friends murdered or beaten and tortured would want him called before court, but i do not think that will help us get a peaceful resolution to the crisis. host: benjamin, republican caller, welcome to the conversation. caller: the u.s. should play a role. it is something that has been in our history. this guy wants power. in our country, there is no king. there is no person that can hold power forever. we know what power does. it is like dealing with the human. mr. yanukovych is a convicted criminal. why not let people live in a democratic state? he knows he will start to lose a lot of the power, slowly and surely as the people start to get more content and happier with the way that policies are. this is like syria and libya. it will start popping up more and more. the united states need to say all of you guys that want diplomatic happiness, you have to get it without power or being afraid of a protester giving a criticism of the government. you need to say, this is what we are doing wrong, let's change it. jfk said a country cannot know what it is doing wrong lessig is criticism from its people. guest: i agree largely with what you said. we have a long and wonderful history of support for democracy. that is what is driving our policy right now. host: this is a live feed from russia tv. this is the maidan square. what you make of the numbers? guest: it is a large crowd. we do not see how large it extends from beyond the pictures screen. host: richard, you are next. go ahead. caller: i do support what the ambassador said as far as stepping in in terms of diplomacy and may giving advice, but as far as spending any viable resources or time or energy in the ukraine, it seems senseless, considering we still have issues at home in terms of obamacare and our national debt. we should concentrate and focus on our issues here and tackle those before we go anywhere else and deal with their problems. host: here's what the president had to say yesterday. he traveled to mexico city and met with his mexican and canadian counterparts. he was asked about the violence in ukraine. here's the president. [video clip] >> with regard to ukraine and our european partners, we will engage all sides and stress to president yanukovych and the ukrainian government that they have the primary responsibility to prevent the kind of terrible violence that we have seen. to withdrawal riot police, to work with the opposition, to restore security and human dignity and move the country forward. this includes progress towards a multiparty technical government that can work with the international community on a support package and adopt reforms necessary for free and fair elections next year. ukrainians are a proud and resilient people who have overcome extraordinary challenges in their history. that is a pride and strength i hope they draw on now. i have urged the military to show restraint and allow civilians to pursue the dialogue necessary for progress. we have seen reports of a truce between the government and the opposition, if the truce is implemented, it could provide space for the sides to resolve their disagreements peacefully. we will do a we can to support ukrainians as they seek a peaceful solution. and respond to the aspirations of the ukrainian people for a full and vibrant democracy. host: what did you make of what the president had to say? guest: i think it is an excellent statement. he covers all the points. he makes clear that we are looking for a compromise that would be acceptable to the government and the opposition parties. i like that he cautioned that the military to stay out of it and he talked about the willingness to offer some assistance if they are willing to make the necessary reforms. host: current ambassador, "a joint statement by eu ambassador and myself," what is his role and what you make of his efforts? guest: he is a solid professional. he is handling himself well. the capital in which he is accredited is in crisis. we have to be careful about what we do. he is handling himself well. host: john, independent caller. caller: good afternoon. host: go ahead. caller: i find the past -- statements to be disingenuous. the history of america involves themselves and other problems, they look good going in, but the results have not been nice. if the ukrainian nation wants to solve their problems, and they have a lot of them. the only country that has their wealth and power to help them are the russians. anyone who steps on russia will have to be careful. while we wish to ukrainians good, our founding fathers told us that there is no democracy like we have here. there is no people in the world like we have here. the people in ukraine have to start thinking. if they are doing what they are doing here in america, i would ask my government to clean the streets. once you break the rule of law, what's left? guest: i think you expressed some admirable sentiments. but also there are some misconceptions. we have intervened in some places around the world. we're not talking about going into the ukraine. we are talking about using diplomacy to come up with a diplomatic solution. what mr. putin is proposing for the ukraine is not good for the people. he is not helping them. he is trying to draw them into an economic and political union, which is a dead-end. the ukrainian people are resisting that. that is understandable. our support for ukrainians is not unreasonable. we are supporting ukrainians who want freedom and that is admirable. host: a string of tweets. he ran into the opposition leader who thinks the government provoked today's violence to show visiting foreign ministers a truce was impossible. havehen he says 10 por defected -- guest: that is a big deal. i don't have at my fingertips to the exact breakdown, but if 20 or 25 move from the government parties to the opposition parties, the opposition would have a majority. that would lead to the constitutional reform we were talking about. 10 is a significant number. in late november, two or three people left. 10 is a lot more interesting and significant. host: this is coming from the opposition leader, so we do not know if this is true. guest: if it is, the serious talk of sanctions is having an impact. these parliamentarians do not want to be sanctioned. they're showing us, and especially europe, do not target us. host: bob, virginia. caller: there's a four-part series on youtube, i recommend everybody look at this history. it is by a ukrainian and it covers the 4000 years of the history of the ukraine, which is basically the meat grinder of civilization over the last 4000 years. seen it, but i will look for it, and you are right, ukraine has had a very sad history. host: president obama is saying the u.s. condemns in strongest terms the violence that is taking place in the ukraine. that was tweeted out yesterday. we will go to mark, columbus, ohio. go ahead. caller: i would like to remind the ambassador that the united states has always had their problems too. i do not recall any country coming into the united states when we were enslaved, when we were fighting for our civil rights, the government turned against us. we were trying to get our own personal civil rights. no one came to help us. this is when the united states should get involved in any type of military action outside the united states. whenever -- let's take the ukraine. when all ukrainians in america return home to help their country, that is when we should get involved. guest: this caller, like most of the others, expresses a serious concern about the united states intervening overseas. what we're talking about in the ukraine is not a deployment. it is diplomacy. there are no dangers of the type that existed when we put military forces on the ground in afghanistan. the caller is right. other countries do not get involved in our civil rights movements. we have a history as the world's oldest democracy to encourage democracy around the world. there's nothing wrong with that.
on the ground in ukraine. we will open up our phones to you in the first 45 minutes. we want to get your thoughts and your reactions. thinkt to know what you the u.s. response should be to that vote. our phone lines are open, democrats can call -- republicans -- you can also catch up with us on all your favorite social media pages, on twitter, facebook, or .-mail us at journal@c-span.org a very good monday morning to you. i want to take you to the u.s. and around the world. here's the front page of "the new york times" today -- sanctions on the horizon. "theront page of washington post" -- the front page of "the hartford current" -- and onto the front page of "the pittsburgh post-gazette" -- finally the front page of "usa today" this morning. stories leading most every u.s. paper around the country. bring you the latest according to the wire result on that vote to secede in crimea. the ap noting the chromium election chief says 90% of voters support joining russia in the final vote results. that is the latest according to the wire services. we want to go on the ground in tf. -- in kiev. andrew kramer joins us now. thank you. guest: thank you. host: what is the latest in kiev ? what is the reaction to this new government in the vote yesterday? guest: the government had a cabinet meeting this morning. they announced additional the military and partial globalization of the army. it is not entirely clear. so there is this sense there is not a whole lot the ukranian government can do. brusselsare focused on where there is a meeting of ministers about sanctions. there is a lot of guess about what the u.s. plans to do. host: another headline from one of the papers this morning -- thoughts in ukraine about the possibility of further efforts in parts of eastern ukraine? guest: people are worried. it's a very somber mood. people in eastern ukraine, russian speakers, who may embrace russia and follow the crimean scenario. in the capital and certainly in western ukraine there is deep concern about what russia intends to do next. host: what do we know about the russian reaction so far? hast: president putin announced he will give a speech in the upper chamber of russian the federation council, tomorrow. that is being interpreted as -- the likely point of that speech will be the exceptions of crimea into the russian federation, annexation. we don't know exactly what will be said. russia seems to be moving quickly with the plans to annex the peninsula. --t: take us to the re-u.s. to the u.s. reaction. what is the latest from john kerry? haven't seen the very latest statements. think the debate really hinges on how deep the sanctions will go and which personalities will be targeted. from what i understand there are several possible stations to the sanctions. after secondary figures first. i heard from a u.s. senator there is consideration of sanctioning russian chemical companies and banks, which would essentially isolate russia economically. host: you mentioned one of the senators you talked to on the subject, we are reading tweets from members of congress and talking about reactions on their twitter pages. here is senator chuck grassley -- that is senator grassley on his own twitter page. andrew kramer, you are in tf. -- you are in kiev. in the the reaction streets? what is the mood about the new government in the streets of kiev? guest: there is still quite a bit of turmoil here. here, thee square center of the uprising against yanukovych. the so-called defenders of the be dressed in .uite crazy outfits they are now wearing military uniforms. there is a recruitment center for the new national guard in the square. air is a militarization -- and there is a militarization of this movement and of the country in general. it was a very short-lived celebration of victory to a test of how patriotic ukraine can be. host: is there any resolution after this vote yesterday as to what happens to ukrainian troops who are in crimea? mostlyroops have been surrounded at their bases in crimea. with: i was at a briefing the defense minister here, the ukrainian defense minister. they said they negotiated a truce until march 21 with the fleet commanders and russian ministry of defense. ukrainians would be allowed to resupply the bases and there would not be further attempts to overrun them. no shots have been fired. they have been occupied by these unidentified soldiers. there is a truce now until the 21st of march. andrew kramer is a reporter with "the new york times." we appreciate you joining us on the phone from kiev. you very much. if there's one thing i could add -- any likely u.s. or european sanctions -- part of the response of russia will likely be here in ukraine and in russia. the brunt of that response will seen in areas of ukraine that may become targets of military advancement. host: thank you so much for joining us this morning. and we are talking with our viewers. we want to hear your thoughts and your take on what the u.s. reaction should be on this vote yesterday. conversation is already happening on our facebook page. if you want to join our conversation there, facebook.com/cspan. we are taking your thoughts and comments all morning. our phone lines are open. we will start with top coming in -- calling in from florida -- bob calling in from florida. i've known a lot of ukrainians for 30 or 40 years. ofse people are very proud their country. that would be like somebody coming into america saying, hey don't you want to become a part of russia? give me a break. far as the world population -- we lost him. 97% in favor of leaving ukraine. a little more on voter reactions , this is from "the washington post" story -- we want to hear your thoughts and comments. we will go to georgia and north carolina on our line for independents. caller: it's just really hard to that arethe voices coming out of this world. hypocritical determine their own fate. we did the same thing in coso though. we did the same thing in south sudan. just think about it. what if the shoe was on the other foot? -- what at the same thing happened in mexico? he moved in and a bunch of we moved in and a bunch of countries -- the only people that are going to profit from this are the bankers. with instability they get to play with money. prices thatfuel have gone up in the last two weeks. three months ago when they started jacking up the fuel prices it was because of syria. when was the last time we heard anything about syria on the news? now it is the ukraine. here is senator john mccain, who was on cnn cost 'state of the union -- on cnn "state of the union." [video clip] term you can't say there is anything but a -- that does not mean we somehow you can have a major part of a country that you yourself signed off in an agreement. they guarantee the integrity -- guarantee the territorial integrity of it. have a wonderful ambassador representing the united states in the ukraine. russia,he vote to join he is saying 80%. it is a done deal. totalshose vote announced this morning. officials in crimea putting it upwards to 97% came out to vote in favor of seceding from ukraine. john mccain talking about some of the military issues involved. here is a story from "the wall street journal" -- that story also has a map above it. showing some of the areas near eastern ukraine where russian troops are conducting maneuvers in several of the states nearby. about the thousand russian troops in crimea. troopst 20,000 russian in crimea. we go back to the phone lines, what is your response to what happened in the past 24 hours? a shamei think it is and our president really screwed up. he doesn't care. a i wonder what the remarks are -- i wonder what the remarks are off mike. .- are off-mic thatnk it is a disgrace the president of the united states is letting this happen. what should he be doing here? how would you like to see him respond? going with the military. not with boots on the ground but with missiles. us thatd explain to there will be a boomerang effect. i think it is terrible. spine.as no he should not be the president. i think we lost marianne there. editorial inead today's "the wall street journal "the wall street journal" on what happened in the ukraine -- the editorial board of "the wall street journal." on ouro to john waiting line for republicans in alexandria, virginia. caller: i would like to comment on why ukraine is important for u.s. interest and why it is important we do something regarding this issue. oil resources the that exist, namely in turkmenistan and kaz extend, on the western side of the caspian. there are pipelines that go through there. this pipeline goes down to turkey and out into the mediterranean. it is very much in u.s. and russian interest to get that pipeline to cut straight to west -- street west through georgia. -- straight west through georgia. that is important because what it allows us to do is die --ersify and weekend and we get the russian monopoly. -- and weaken the russian monopoly. host: do you think the obama administration is doing enough to explain a what you are talking about -- to explain what you are talking about? caller: i don't blame the administration. i more so blamed the media. i think the administration should have that conversation that i don't know of that message would be very well accepted. -- have that conversation but i don't know if that conversation would be very well accepted. the i would like to make -- i would like to make another point. nato is dead.of that is a discussion that has been going on over the past seven years. behink our policy should now to extend nato eastward and take efforts to get the ukraine into nato. once we are able to do that we can reignite this transit lan take relationship -- this transatlantic relationship. now we really have found a reason to do that. alexandria,rom virginia this morning with his thoughts. on our twitter page -- on's go to frederick waiting our line for democrats in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i agree with the last tweeter. america has no right to talk the ukraine in because look at what the republicans are doing with the voter suppression here in america. these are the worst hypocrites in the world. that is my comments. host: that is frederick calling in from pennsylvania. we talked to a new york times reporter earlier in the show. is on obama's policy being put to the test in ukraine. he writes -- that story goes on to the jump 'sge, quoting one of mr. obama former senior national security aides. an analysis piece in today's "new york times." we want to show you a bit from white house senior adviser dan sunday's he was on "meet the press." he gave a bit of his reaction before the vote happened yesterday. [video clip] >> if crimea votes to become part of russia, air is still a concern that there may be an attempt to move into eastern ukraine, a be militarily move into the ukraine further. do you think that will happen? >> this referendum is in violation of international law. the united states is not going to recognize it. we are working with our partners around the world to marshal forces against the russians and put pressure on that in the form of sanctions. the president is signing an executive order to give the authority to do this. you can expect sanctions in the coming days. host: the senior white house adviser going on one of the sunday shows yesterday, talking about what the u.s. is doing. we want to hear your thoughts and what you think about some of the issues that he brought up. randy is waiting in fort worth, texas. the morning to you. -- good morning to you. caller: nobody is talking about the treaty. during the clinton administration there was a treaty with the ukraine. the treaty was to dismantle their military. nobody is talking about that. during the obama administration in 2009 president obama signed a treaty to protect the ukraine. host: which treaty are you talking about? and what do you think about the ukrainian troops that are on the russian bases in and is supportively surrounded by russian troops he ? have the military in ukraine, they cannot fly aircraft's, they cannot take the navy out to protect their ports. russia has them surrounded. they don't have the military. president obama signed that treaty in 2009 saying he would protect them. they have a small military, not enough to defend the russians. line from is on the washington. caller: i just wanted to talk about the first thing that came out of the republicans mouths, -- this isand others the reason we have to open the keystone pipeline as fast as we can. all the keystone pipeline is for is export and they can't get the natural gas out of the ground and exported enough -- export it fast enough. building the keystone pipeline is obviously a process that would take a while if they finished the full pipeline. do you think that would help the situation right now or do you mean sending a message with approving the pipeline? is the corporations that find another reason to get that oil out of canada and ship won't have any effect in lowering our field prices here -- our fuel prices here. they can get the natural gas out of our ground and sell it overseas as fast as they can. the canadians don't want the pipeline going through. an article in national geographic in august of 2010. approach was taking the pipeline from alberta to bc and the canadians would not let them run their own oil through their own pipeline. they have the trains running it. they are taking to heart out of sand and trying to ship it -- they are digging tar out of sand and trying to ship it. they have to mix the tar with something and it looks like they are making it into napalm and shipping it. calling in from washington. a few more comments from our facebook page. you can follow the conversation there on our twitter page as well. later in the show we are going to be talking about one of the upcoming deadlines for enrollment for coverage of this year under the affordable care act. a story on that subject from "the hill" newspaper -- a story that was out yesterday evening. "each day the bracket will be up did it based on votes from online users. it is part of an ongoing attempt to reach young consumers where they are." we are going to be talking about that deadline with a reporter from politico newspaper later in the show today. -- also noting it is primary season. from "the newy york times" on that topic -- we will give you a preview of not just the governors race but some of the other races as well. we have 15 minutes left to discuss this vote on crimea yesterday. let's go to diana waiting in longview, texas. good morning. we want to hear your take on that vote in crimea. i have been watching this since the beginning when the soldiers invaded. there were a few soldiers at first and we did not know who they were. ukrainians understand -- i am not sure this is true. they do not have weapons. everybody was confused who it was. all of a sudden we had this plane crash. so we don't hear anything about what was happening to russia, which is a little more porton. although a plane crash is very tragic. -- little more important. although a plane crash is very tragic. it reminded me of vietnam. we want to know if russians are invading -- hasn'to you think there been enough media attention on this? that it has been leading a lot of the vote yesterday. -- it has been leading a lot of the papers since yesterday. caller: [laughter] host: i think we lost her there. we will go to bill. caller: they are a nation and they have their own way of deciding things. therea r are treaties. to getcanno't afford into a military conflict iwtwith russia. we are trying to get out of the middle east, we have economic issues we are trying to deal with. for those of you who think we -- if youover there put the foot in the door and keep the door open somebody will pull away. we cannot let things escalate. leave thingsould alone for now and see how it turns out. we need to make sure things don't escalate. don't let russians advance any further in europe. we showed you republican senator john mccain on cnn and toss "state -- on cnn's "state of the union." chris murphy was on abc's "this week." here's what he had to say. [video clip] putin moves further in the eastern ukraine, is there anything we can really do to prevent that? >> i don't think there is anything we can do militarily. tos is a longer-term effort build up the ukrainian the military. on monday we announced with the european union a crippling set going after russian business entities. i think that sends a strong message to putin. think anyone believes -- i don't think he believed the u.s. would take a chunk out of his economy. that gives us a chance to change the calculus in moscow. >> will sanctions be enough? luxe we have to wait for european friends to tell us they are willing to move forward. there is no doubt that if you cut off russian gas it will hurt. there's no doubt that if you freeze russian assets in places like germany and great rich and it will hurt them. this is a threat -- and great britain it will hurt them. this is a threat to the territorial integrity of europe. host: if you want to follow on our twitter page it is @cspanwj. pablo waiting in fort lauderdale, florida on our line for independents. caller: thank you for taking my call. explain something we may not be very aware of. kremlin has been an extension is force for years -- an extensionist force for years. teheare clearly geopolitical enemy of us. allowing them to incorporate ukraine is giving them a country of 150 million people, which will become part of our enemy. becomeot allow russia to so much more powerful by annexing ukraine. host: where did he the line drawn here? what do you think should -- where do you want the line drawn here? what do you think should happen with crimea? caller: we are going to allow texas to vote to separate from america? that came up in the past. we are one nation indivisible. the same thing for this italic -- fornd -- for the us the totalitarian country. -- we are it takes many forms to help militarily, not just boots on the ground. psychologically, with weapons, train people there, cyber warfare. pablo calling in from florida. i want to show you a few more headlines in this segment of "the washington journal" today -- if you want to read more on that , robert costa wrote that story for "the washington post." not to the 2014 election but to the 2016 , one oftial election the lead political columnists for "the washington post" writes -- he talks about the reasons that would happen -- he goes on to talk about a third and fourth tier. we have about five minutes left to continue this discussion on the crimean vote. yesterday crimean officials voting to at 97% secede. let's go to our line for democrats. caller: thank you for taking my call. the referendum in crimea -- it beend be noted crimea has historically a russian territory. ukraine in given to the 1950's. people in crimea welcome the referendum. what is not mentioned in the western press, people who are in power in the ukraine along to the neo-nazi parties. they don't want any russian, jewish, or any influence in ukraine. some of this is not being reported. where'd you go to for your information on this subject? russian andad some independent canadian websites. i know you are going to tell me the russianading propaganda websites. i don't think that is the case. there are two sides to the story. that side of the story completely overshadows -- if anybody does simple research and goes online and seeing what the right sector is, what the -- liations are "the new york times" talking about some reactions from the kremlin and from putin -- elf james in california on our line for independents. good morning. i was wondering, are there any reliable figures as to how many russians are in crimea? i hear this 97%. i'm certain that is propoganda. 75% --as theye have to a reasonable argument to take them in -- for the russians to take them in. i don't think they should have ever crossed somebodies border without communication for doing that. -- communication before doing that. i disagree with the lady who suggesting neo-nazis in the ukraine. that is absurd. there is a faction there, but certainly it's not the whole country. we will end the with steven in richmond, virginia on our line for democrats. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. russia, ukraine, and crimea's problem. the international people should stay out and see what they do. i believe the vote was legal. crimeave putin invaded because russia has a lot of investment, a lot of money in area.ertain part of the of the people voted to be in russia, just split crimea in half. a half for ukraine. people international stay out of it but create sanctions for the way putin invaded ukraine. just stay out of it and see what is going on. richmond,hen from virginia. that is all the time we have in this first segment of "the washington journal." we will be joined by michael nlan to discuss -- michael alle to discuss -- kyle cheney from politico. we will be right back. ♪ >> and i have concluded -- >> [indiscernible] the only gentleman on that side who even made a movement was mr. walker. the gentleman did not stand, the gentleman did not rise. i resent the statement. if anybody stands i would have recognized them. >> i did not mean to suggest you are not acting with fairness. what i was suggesting was we do have a bill hear that you have worked with the president of the united states -- >> [indiscernible] on a bill of this type i would never do a thing like that. there wasn't a man on either side of the aisle. did not mean to offend you. >> you have offended me. i will accept your apology. on 35e more highlights years of health coverage on our facebook page. cable, created by the company 35 years ago in karate today as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. brought to ago and you today as a public service by your cable or satellite provider. >> we can eliminate -- we need to make sure we eliminate barriers to getting those out in place. sometimes there are local siting issues, federal rules that .ffect how we employ things we want to make sure we are sensitive to those issues. at the same time we want to make sure we move forward. those that use these devices every day in their lives, depend on having a good strong connection on getting whenever-to-day info they wanted. >> the wireless infrastructure, tonight on "the communicators," at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2. washington journal" continues. michaele are joined by allen. how unusual is it for congressional inquiry, the intelligence community, to become so he did that the that a -- so heated senator would go to the floor and accused the cia from violating -- the cia of violating the law. rare. it is what happened last week with senator feinstein going down to the floor and accusing the cia of searching her staff's computers was pretty remarkable and made a lot of waves around washington. host: you worked in the executive branch on these issues, on the oversight committee and the legislative branch. of talk a little bit -- talk a little bit about the history of the dispute. after 9/11 president bush created a covert program. the covert action program was to capture and detain terrorists and interrogate them to get questions that we might be able to use for national security purposes, to get information and intelligence. president bush declassified the program in 2006. the full committees of congress had been briefed at that time about the program and the senate intelligence community started an investigation into some of the interrogation techniques that were used. it has been going on for about five years. i think the committee has a draft of the report. they are trying to finish up the report. i think the cia sent some comments up to congress, trying to get some things changed in the draft. that is where the flashpoints whether the senate intelligence committee got a hold of some documents. -- some documents the cia says they shouldn't have and whether the cia have looked at some computers that the senate staff were using and whether they should have done that. senator dianne feinstein, from her floor statement, had this to say about what happened. she says -- some tough charges there. you are the former majority staff director on the house select committee on intelligence. how is this oversight process supposed to work? it is obviously not supposed to get to that point where a senator is making those kinds of comments on the floor of the senate. the oversight is supposed to be rigorous, tough, but fair. are able to get all the information about what the cia and the other intelligence agencies are up to. ask hardsupposed to questions, make judgments about whether the programs are working, whether the taxpayers dollars are being spent in the way we want them to be spent, to make sure they are spent .fficiently and effectively that is how the oversight process is supposed to work. it is supposed to be a rigorous but fair person looking over your shoulder. host: talk about the role of staffers. something that angered dianne feinstein on the floor of the senate was the thought that some staffers may be prosecuted by the justice department. how often does that happen in terms of threats against staffers? anst: i can't think of example where the staff has been brought it in such a big way and put in the crosshairs, at least according to senator dianne feinstein's statement. all members of congress rely on their staff. members have a lot going on between constituent services, they have to go back to the district and the rest. the staff demand committees full-time and try to follow developments what is going on -- development across what is going on in their committees. investedhey have a lot and when you have a big fight like this it is not a good place to be in. her statements from the floor, here is cia director's john brennan's statements -- clear up what some of the concerns are about the workload of senate staff members. at least from the cia perspective. anythingdon't know from my last position when i worked for the house intelligence committee. according to the newspapers the senate intelligence committee staff may have been able to access some documents that apparently some in the caa believe they should not have access to in their investigation . that reading between the lines seems to be what brought the cia back to the senate. maybe they got their hands on some documents they weren't supposed to. conducting oversight, how is a congressional staffer supposed to know what to look for, what to ask for when they are looking into an intelligence agency like the cia? guest: this gets to the core of what senator feinstein was talking about in separation of powers. there is a push and pull between the executive branch and congress. to executive branch asked make a lot of assertions of privilege. for example, the deliberative process is something that is geared towards the way president makes decisions. literally putting options before the president about what he can or should or should not do. white house staff and lawyers believe that is something congress should not be able to do. i think people in congress generally acknowledge there are privileges like this. i don't think they give them as much status as the executive branch would. it is why you have the push and the pull of the people trying to get a hold of documents. host: when we talk about senate staffers thomas who actually has the access to go over there and --k at the site -- at these about senate staffers, who action has the access to go over there and look at the cia computers? guest: there are 20 or 30 staffers on the intelligence committee. you have to go through a rigorous academic check -- .igorous background check all the staff have a top secret clearance and have the ability to get the most sensitive information. that is the deal that house and senate intelligence committees struck with intelligence agencies in the 1970's. you are doing a lot of things on behalf of the country that are right up there on the line. they are very controversial but somebody has to know about it in the other branches of government. somebody has to look over your shoulder and make sure that in the eyes of the american people the activities are ok. that is the idea there. host: is it unusual for congressional staff to go to a third-party location or for the cia to look at documents as opposed to having them here on capitol hill? occasionsre are many where we would go out to review cia documents. must investigations -- most investigations -- for example, 9/11, most of the documents were sent up here. secure facility to be able to store classified information. because there were so many millions of documents they struck a different deal. rather than transport them all the way up to congress, why don't you come out to the langley campus or cia property and review them there yet though i was part of the reason we have -- review them their? -- them there? they were housed at the cia facilities. host: we have been talking about senator dianne feinstein and her comments on the floor of the senate. aesident obama himself gave brief reaction that we want to show our viewers when asked about the charges presented by senator feinstein. [video clip] >> with respect to the issues that are going back and forth between the committee and cia, john brennan has referred them to the appropriate authorities. they are looking into it. that is not something that is appropriate for me or the white house to wade into at this point. , which isntive issue how we operate even when we are threatened, even when we have gone through extraordinary trauma, has to be consistent with the rule of law. i acted on back in the first day and that has not changed. host: we are talking to michael allen, a former committee staff director for the select committee intelligence -- select committee of intelligence. this here to talk about conflict between the cia, some of the allegations leveled rights senator dianne feinstein last week on the floor of the senate. up first from tucson, arizona on our line for independents. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment the c.i.a. has black budgets and its purpose is largely related to the global paradigm. meone like dianne feinstein, she is running fisa courts and they have a record of not denying nearly any requests for spying on whoever we're looking to spy on. they claim they're going to say who they're going to spy on, that's really just a lie, cover. but the bigger point is we are are own politicians casting doubt right now trying to implement dissent in america with the second amendment and sandy hook we had fdu run a poll after saying to restrict un rights and there's multiple articles. i've got more comments. host: we've got other callers waiting to chat as well. unless you wanted to comment on john's talk. guest: well, the c.i.a.'s mission and all the community's mission is to collect foreign intelligence. that's why they were created. the point of the system is to be able to get information that can benefit our policy makers so they can make better decisions on behalf of the country. that's what the c.i.a. is trying to do. they're not trying to do anything within the united states. that's not their mission, that's not what they want to do. we've got plenty of problems overseas. so they're really sort of a foreign intelligence enterprise. st: ana in frirks fred rirksburg, virginia. caller: none of the members of congress find their offices in the cross hairs in the post 9/11 war against americans. do you think more might realize that it serves the nation's best interest to summon their courage and openly knowledge that free fall on 9/11 is scientifically impossible unless explosively used? host: john, you talked about the sort of restructuring of the c.i.a. and the intelligence communities after 9/11. any thoughts on ana's comments? guest: well, the commission looked really into all of the facts around the 9/11 commission plot. i know there's some people out there who have different ideas about how this possibly could have happened. but most of the people think that the fact that they put into their report are pretty solid. my book was about mostly their recommendations. now, that was where they got a lot of controversy of did they recommend the right things in terms of restructuring the intelligence community to meet the threats of the new post 9/11 era. but i think as far as the facts are concerned, those are pretty settled and people think the commission did a good job. host: on this between the c.i.a. and what's happening on capitol hill and the overserious, marie tweets. guest: the reason that we have an intelligence community again is to try to figure out how we can keep the country safer. we've got al qaeda at least from north africa all the way up through afghanistan. we see what's going on in russia. we've got major problems in syria. and we have to keep an eye on what's going on in china. this is what the intelligence community is most concerned about. they want to collect information so that we can have warning as a country about what's happening around the globe, so we'll be able to protect ourselves from a variety of national security threats going forward. host: michael allen, the autsdz of of blimpinging red. talking -- blinking red. talking about some of the issues aired on the floof last week. on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. well, the problem i have with all of us democrats is we're not doing what we said we were going to do when we ran for office. a good example of that of urse is mrs. hillary clinton who actually belongs in leavenworth for dare licks of duty with benghazi. she's responsible for four murders and i feel so sorry for president obama because he's lith h a group of ill rat people like dirty harry reid, you know, my gosh. host: what do you think about what was aired on the floor of the senate last week? did you watch any of senator fine stine's statements about what the c.i.a. was doing in this investigation? caller: wem, if they kept their hands clean mrs. feinstein, if she was boof board and told the truth all the time she wouldn't have to worry about it. i mean, the only people that have to really worry about all of this kind of crap is those immoral, i onest, will lithrath, the harry reeds. the doibance. fine stipe herself. hillary clinton of course. it's going to be a terrible waste of money if she actually runs for the presidency because they will probably end up putting her in leavenworth where she belongs. host: we play add comment earlier of president obama when he was asked about this do you think that the white house has plays sort of the proper role here? guest: i think the white house is trying to get somewhere in the middle. they don't want john brennan and the c.i.a. to be in the cross hairs. but at the same time i don't think they want to be seen as trying to change what senator fine stine's staff has put into the draft report on enhanced interrogation techniques. so i think they're playing a little roll somewhere in the middle. but let's take a step back. this is not where the c.i.a. and the administration need to be. you don't want to be on the wrong side of your congressional overseer. very, very powerful chairman, senator fine stine is upset with the central intelligence agency. so i think the white house is going to try to play a mediating role so we don't have such a big blowup as we did last week between the two entities in the intelligence world, they don't necessarily need to get along but they need to not be at such dagger points. host: on our twitter page. talk about president obama and what he did when it came to this investigation and the looking forward as opposed to looking back. guest: i think that president obama supported and does support what the senate intelligence committee -- democrats by the way. the republicans are not involved in the investigation. i think president obama supports the look back to see exactly what happened with this particular c.i.a. program. i think, however, that it's gone on for a long time and i would bet -- i don't know this but i'll bet they're starting to think this is a distraction and i think all parties are probably looking for a way to settle some of their disputes, get at least a summary of the report declassified and released in the next few months so that we can move on. host: harold in louisiana. caller: thank you for taking my call. just wanted to mention that while the c.i.a. certainly does provide a very vital role for providing intelligence to our armed forces, this whole incident as well as the snowden disclosures have really brought to my mind a revisit to what was going on with nixon and his administration and the spying during the watergate incidents. i would just like to hear the guest's thoughts on that. guest: thanks for the question. look, the snowden revelations have locked the intelligence committee and national security posture of the united states really worse than any counter intelligence investigation or incident that most people can remember. so this has been i think -- there's always something big going on in the intelligence community. there was 9/11, there was the iraq wmd issue. there was the reorganization of the community. and now the snowden matter. so there's always something big and major going on. but snowden documents, at least 1.2 million documents that revealed sort of what our intelligence posture is around the united states to have our playbook in other people's hands is a bad thing for the intelligence community and a bad thing for the country. i think it's something we all ought to be worried about going forward. host: you talked about the possible publicication of that senate report on c.i.a. interrogations, when that might happen. the lead editorial in today's "washington post" talks about that. the editorial board says stop squabbling an publish the senate's report on c.i.a. interrogations. >> the senate committee working on that report said there's been nothing like this report written in the past. what's expected to come out of that. guest: it souppeds judging from press report that is they're going to be very harsh about the covert action program that president bush initiated post 9/11. they're going to challenge the efficacy of the interrogations and say that didn't result in actionable intelligence. intelligence that the country could have used. i think a lot of republicans are probably going to dispute that. but, look, the editorial makes a fair point. we should probably figure out a way to get the facts out on the table, learn our lessons from this episode and move on. because we've got bigger fish to fry in the long run when you look at what's going on in the crimea, when you look at what's going on in syria and china, not to minimize what's happened in the past. we need to definitely learn our lessons from that but we've got a lot of big things on the horizon. so i think the view in the c.i.a. is that they're trying to look forward to face the new threats. host: talk about john brennan's role with the c.i.a. not just on how he's handled what's going on now but this was a guy nominated before to head the c.i.a. and some of the concerns and his comments about the interrogation programs were one of the reasons why that nomination was pulled back. correct? guest: i think so. i think in the first term john brennan was rumored to be a candidate for c.i.a. director and then the nomination -- well, the nomination was never sent forward. and people thought it was because he as a career c.i.a. officer probably had something to do with maybe had something to do with this particular enhanced interrogation techniques program during the bush years. i think what happened is that president obama came to rely on him tremendously in the first term when he was the counter terrorism coordinator in the white house and really wanted to move forward with him at the hem of c.i.a. when president obama was reelected. host: on twitter. guest: neither. the cyber command has two hats. the nsa is to collect foreign intelligence overseas, to be able to find information that our policy makers need. but they have a second hat which is as part of the war fighting command that if we ever needed to use cyber as a weapon in our arsenal, cyber command would write up those plans. host: ask asked on twitter. guest: i think a lot of people were upset about how many contractors we relied on after 9/11. set eded a lot of highly intelligence people quickly after 9/11. the numbers, it got up to about $80 billion a couple years ago. that's a lot of capability. we ramped up quickly and the intelligence community had to rely on private contractors to help them, translators, people who could work computers and the rest. so it's something we had to rely on for the safety of the country. most people want to shrink it a little bit and i think that's what the congress is doing. the committees are working on legislation that over time is shrinking the budget a little bit to meet the new threats. host: again we're talking with michael allen, the author of blinking red, crisis and compromise in american intelligence after 9/11. why call it blinking red? guest: george tenant in the summer of 2001 said that when he looked at some of the fragments of intelligence, he said i think that there's an intelligence attack on the way. the system was blinking red. he didn't have what we call tactical intelligence. he didn't know the day it was going to happen. he didn't know what the targets were or the method. but over the summer of 2001, people saw that the threats sort of increased and that was just the way he described it. and it sounded like a great title for a book. host: let's go to richard waiting in arkansas. caller: i would like to have a question. i was thinking probably none of these reports will ever be published. i remember nancy pelosi kept saying she never was made aware of how the enhanced interrogation roles are working. we're going to find out that a lot of those people like pelosi and others were briefed on that even though now they're lying. because when she said that several people said she was in those briefings, too. do you think that's a cat and mouse game they're going to lay? guest: i think there's something to that. i think a lot of folks in the c.i.a. feel like they were a little bit hung out to dry. that the white house supported what they were doing. i think they feel like the justice department gave legal opinions that supported what they were doing. and at least some in the congress were briefed. so it later became controversial in the years after 9/11. so i feel like they probably feel a little whip sawed back and forth as people -- as people got down into the details of what the central intelligence agency was doing. but members of congress are both through the years have both -- of both parties have tried to do a deep dive to figure out what happened. and i think this is what the senate intelligence committee is trying to do to write the definitive history of the program, at least in this time frame. host: are these some of the way that is the committees and the intelligence community can sort of push back against each other when it comes to these type of investigations, whether it's a floor speech or some of the issues that the caller just brought up? guest: i think that is it. people often ask, well, how does the congress control? how does it oversee the intelligence community? one way they do it is to pass an annual budget. that is something that fell by the wayside for a time but at least for the last three years chairman rogers and chairman fine stine along with the ranking members have passed an intelligence budget. so that's one way to actually pass real positive law that they can exercise some authority over the intelligence community. the other way to do it is to go public, be it in a hearing or like senator fine stine did, go out on the senate floor and make a big speech that is going to get people's attention and that is going to make sure that the c.i.a. wants to be -- they want to be able to keep the members of congress satisfied that they're getting the information they need. so it's something that can spur action. host: what are your thoughts bout the tweet guest: i don't know necessarily what they mean. i mean, congress is very, very involved in the activities of the intelligence community. but they have an oversight role. at the end of the day the central intelligence agency is part of the executive branch and answers to the president. but they have to adhere to the constitution. they have to adhere to the laws of the united states. and they need to be able to have a good relationship and be able to have support from the congress. so i think there are a lot of ways that people oversee and throttle back some of our intelligence activities. host: steve waiting in pennsylvania on our line for drabts this morning. steve, you're on with michael allen. guest: good morning. my comments are regards to this blinking red crisis and compromise. i think our intelligence is under compromise since this administration took over in 2008 we have the underwear bomber, failure of intelligence. times square failure of intelligence, we have fort hood failure of intelligence. we have the boston marathon failure of intelligence. here, they're taking all their time, taking information off ow of our cell phones, e-mails, storing them. then you have the i.r.s. leaking tax information to gain political game and also -- it's just a big compromise. they're wasting so much time gathering our information instead of foreign intelligence. guest: i think you're on to something. you list a series of near terrorist attacks that almost have occurred in the last four to five years. and that's why the intelligence community needs the budget it needs. that's why it needs the capabilities to be able to intersement foreign -- intercept foreign telephone calls and e-mails of targets, of bonea fide targets of people who might do us harm. the thing that's missing from the debate in the snowden controversy, there's this underlying theme out there that the intelligence community is interested in lining to what average americans are saying to each other and the rest. that's just not the case. there are so many different threats that the country has got to watch, so many islamic tremists from a really a crescent across africa and afghanistan, so much going on in al qaeda and iraq and syria. there's so many different things that they have to follow around the globe. i don't think they have the time or the inclination to deal with american citizens. there's a different process for that that goes through the fisa court and that's just not really something that they are after. and we need to get more and better collection of intelligence so that the underwear bomber and the times square bomber and these things are foiled not by their own incompetence but because we got the right information at the right time to be able to stop it. host: we talked about your work as a former staff director for the house permanent select committee on intelligence. talk about some of the positions you held in the executive branch when you touched on these issues. guest: sure. i was working in the national security council for president bush and in that role i was the senior director for legislative affairs, which basically means i was the liaison between the white house and the congressional intelligence committees op a variety of different intelligence and national security issues. so i got to see it sort of from the executive branch perspective about what the white house would like to be able to share and would like the intelligence committees to be able to do for them. and then when i worked in the congress i sort of saw it from the other side of the street. host: another question from twitter. guest: well, it's a complicated answer. it's roughly $78 billion of intelligence. and some of that is in the defense department budget because after all most of the intelligence community is in the department of defense. but a lot of it also goes to the c.i.a. so it's split between d.o.d. and other intelligence agencies. host: let's go to kathy waiting in montgomery, texas on our line for republicans. good morning. you're on with author michael allen. caller: i cannot understand president obama the leader of our country and eric holder the head of our justice department they seem to have no knowledge of any of this. personally i think they're too busy bullying our american citizens and i think they're the enemy within. thank you. host: kathy from montgomery, texas. we'll go to betty in indiana on our line for republicans. good morning. are you was? aller: oh, yeah. my question is i don't think we should be wasting none of our money putting hillary in as and i think 2016 they need to keep on investigating the benghazi because she's behind all that. and she lied. she just wouldn't make a good president. host: what our caller is concerned about on benghazi. we've had other callers before. what's your take on that situation? guest: clearly there was a failure on the part of the state department to secure the conflict in benghazi. there are a lot of people in congress who are still investigating and looking into this matter. when i was staff director of the committee chairman rogers was in this issue trying to drill down into the intelligence assessments about what the security situation was in benghazi. my understanding is that those investigations are ongoing and that people are trying to press to get answers about what we knew, or what we should have known, so that we could have prevented the tragedy. host: and the previous caller brought up a possible clinton presidency again in the future. but go back to how the intelligence community sees the new administrations come in, how much does that change the focus of the intelligence community and the staff, how much turnover is there in the intelligence community? guest: the intelligence community does not generally have political appointees except really at the very top. sort of the senate confirmed leaders, the director of national intelligence and the c.i.a. director are among the couple political appointees. so the vast majority of our intelligence enterprise are career civil servants or members of the u.s. armed forces that don't turn over when the white house flips from republican to democrat. i think the intelligence communities sort of creedo is that they are there to serve the commander in chief. they have duty to the congress, they have duty to the law and constitution and they try to fulfill those duties. i think they try to take direction from the president, certainly the c.i.a. does. and that's why they have such a cozy relationship through the years. and so i think that's sort of how they see what their mission is. host: let's go to brian waiting in tennessee on our line for democrats this morning. caller: good morning. my question or comment rather is everybody's worried about talking about benghazi and that's a terrible tragedy. but we have -- if that's important, what about the 8,000 people, the 4,000 people who died in both afghanistan and raq? those are the questions we need to ask. not that the four people who died in benghazi because of a miscommunication aren't important. but what about the others who died based on a lie? guest: the commission that president bush set up to investigate what went wrong on the assessments that there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq i think most people believed the very thorough look at what went wrong and how we can do better in the future. and we certainly looked into the 9/11 commission. the 9/11 disaster was looked at by a commission and the congress and so we have a tradition of looking into major failures that happened when the federal government is involved. and i think you're going to continue to see people press on benghazi and to do similar work that we did in the other two instances. host: the author of blinking red, crisis and compromise in american intelligence after nine letch. we appreciate you joining us on a snowy day on capitol hill. guest: thanks for having me. host: up next, the affordable care act as we get close to that deadline for sign-ups at the end of this month for coverage in 2014 and later in our weekly, your money segment will discuss the five-year anniversary of the home affordable modification program. but first, here's a news update. >> the european union and their foreign ministers have set up a target list for sanctions on russian's link to the is he from of the crimea n ukraine. they condemn the referendum as has the united states which has also promised sanctions. the crime n parliament declared independence today. here at home the pentagon says a team of navy seals is now in control of an oil tanker that escaped libyan efforts to confiscate it. the seals boarded the tanker morning glory late yesterday in international waters southeast of cyprus in an operation approved by president obama. the vessel whose ownership remains a mystery was carrying stolen libyan crude oil. president obama meets today with palestinian authority president eye bass at the white house, and presidential aides say the president plans to urge him to sign on to an accord for a final round of negotiations for a middle east peace plan. two weeks ago president obama ade a similar case to netiau of israel pleading with both sides to accept the document being draft bid john kerry. those are some of the latest headlines. >> we're focused on making sure that we can eliminate barriers to getting those networks in place. building out these networks is our priority. so sometimes there are local siting issues, sometimes federal rules that might affect how we deploy things or what the lighting might be or the impact on historic sites or the environment. we want to make sure we are sensitive to those issues. at the same time we want to make sure we move forward because our customers, those who use these devices every day in their lives depend on having a good strong connection and getting the day-to-day when they want it. and that means having a really robust wireless network. >> the wireless infrastructure tonight on the communicators at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: two weeks from today will mark the final day to sign up for health insurance for 2014 under the affordable care act's exchanges that have been set up. here to talk about how the signup process is going is politico health care reporter kyle cheney. what's the latest we know on enrollment numbers here? guest: it's imprecise but the white house is touting 4.2 million signups. the number is sort of the rough number that we know. host: remind us what the enrollment targets are here. guest: there's been some dispute. i think initially the projections were that 7 million would sign up by the end of march. but then we had the collapse of health care.gov so that was reduced to 6 million. the white house now says we just want millions to sign up. 6 million, 5 million, somewhere in that range is what they're shooting for. but no set number. host: and that 4.2 million that you talked about broken down by age groups, ages 18-25% represent about 10% of those, 26-34 years old represent about 45-5423 and %, above represent 30% of those who sign up. but it seems like the most important numbers at least from the obama administration's perspective is that 18-34 range. correct? guest: exactly and you noted 26% of the total signups so far in that range which is passable i think but to the administration's point of view. but i think they're hoping closer to 40% which would really suggest robust enrollment in that age group what they really need when you have older and less healthier people signing up. host: and there's been a lot of discussion about what the numbers are needed to make the affordable care act work. this is a question that president obama was asked on friday in an interview he did with the website web mm d. here's a bit of what he had to say guest: at this point enough people are signing up that the affordable care act is going to work. the insurance companies will continue to offer these plans. we already have 4 million people, over 4 million people signed up. it will go -- it will be a larger number than that by the end of march 31, the deadline to get insurance this year. if you miss the deadline by the way on march 31, you can get insurance but you'll have to wait until november of next year or november of this year to start signing up again. the impact in terms of the program has always been based more on the mix of people who sign up. do we have a mix of people who are gray haired like me, and may have some old basketball injuries and aches and pains along with young people who are healthy and don't really have any issues right now. do we have a good mix of gender in terms of men and women. host: president obama in his web md interview that was released on friday. one of several different appearances he's made to promote the affordable care act and this upcoming deadline. correct? guest: yes. he's been out there in full force as the deadline gets closer to march 31. you heard him talk about the mix of enrollees which i think you're hearing more and more seems to be the act warne chief there in terms of wanting enough young people again to sign up and when he talks about the mix that's what he means, young people versus older, men versus women. that's the numbers the white house is focusing on rather than the overall 6 or 7 million these days. host: as we're talking about these enrollment deadlines that are coming up. we want to take your thoughts and questions our phones are open. democrats can call republicans can call. dependents and we have a special line set up for those ages 35 and younger who want to talk about the subject. president obama appealing to those folks 35 and younger crowd. he went on the website funny or e to talk with comedian zasm about the health care website. here's a bit from that appearance on funny or die. >> if they get that health insurance it can really make a big difference and they've got until march 31 to sign up. >> i don't have a computer. >> well, then you can call 18003182596. >> i also don't have a phone. i don't want you people looking at my texts. >> first of all, nobody's interested. but second you can do it in person. the law means that inshurers can't discriminate against you if you have a preexisting condition. >> but what about this though? >> that's disgusting. >> how long have you had that? >> just four months. >> really? >> spider bite. i got attacked by spieders. >> you need to get that checked right away. you need to get on health care.gov because that's one of the most disgusting things i've ever seen. >> what's been the reaction to the president's appearance with comedian zack? >> well, the white house reminds everyone that became the leading driver of traffic to health care.gov. so as far as they're concerned that was the best reaction they could have hoped for. some of the fire stomplee where you heard a lot of criticism this is beneath the office of the the president the white house countered we're going to reach young people as they always say where they are. the media they're watching is not all reading mainstream publicications any more, they're scattered. so the reaction's been across the board but i think in some sense that advance it is white house's goal because there was so much buzz around his appearance that it got a lot more traffic than otherwise. >> making one of the header columns this week, a picture of president obama's appearance and the headline is searching for the young invisibles. the economist magazine this week. we're here talking with kyle cheney of politico. we want to take your thoughts and comments. betty in chicago, on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. you know, america some of the people in america are really petty. regardless of the rollout, every thing like that has a side good or bad. since october look how many millions of people that didn't have insurance in this country babies old people didn't have it. they're getting it now. why can't the republicans and people like you all move on and get off that enrollment? we've got people that are being signed up, people that are taken care of, can't you all come from the past and go to the future? also, the republicans keep talking about president obama going on that show. he reached 15 million people what's wrong with that? you get people where you can. this man is trying to get people in this country to have good health insurance. is there anything wrong with hat? host: she was talking about some of the criticism that the obama administration has received on the website and its rollout. how is that -- has that continued today? guest: you don't hear much any more because health care.gov is almost completely functional. you hear scattered bits about people having problems. the criticism you're hearing from republicans now more is about costs, it's about is the law itself going to work or collapse on itself? to the caller's point, the administration and its allies keep emphasizing that look, millions of people regardless of its 6 million or 7 million, millions of people have coverage now many of which may not have before but we don't know how many were uninsured but we still know that millions of people have enrolled or signed up. so this is the white house's point. that's what matters here the long run this is proof that this is working. host: your story in politico, the headline, how many have paid premiums? talk about the difference between paying for the premiums and enrolling? guest: this is why i mentioned earlier the 4.2 million is imprecise. that's people who go to health care.gov or state exchange or sign up for coverage. to actually be enrolled for an insurance company you have to pay your first freedomium. and the industry is very standard for a percentage of people who sign up not to actually pay and therefore never be covered. of course the goal of the affordable care act is to actually cover these people signing up. so when we talk to people in the industry you hear more like 80% of people signing up is actually paid and so the anrollment number may be somewhere south of 4.2 million, could be in the 3's which has some bearing on whether the administration is enrolling as many people as it hoped. host: have a special line set up in this segment for those 35 and younger. that line is on your screen. in the meantime we'll go to thomas waiting in west virginia on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: it's actually kevin. no problem. host: go ahead. sorry about that. caller: that's quite all right. this segue's perfectly into my comment. because from october to now a percentage according to the numbers, people who would have normally gone for free health care relief anywhere because of the unemployment because of the economy, because of people losing jobs, it's built on a lie. 28 different speeches. you want your doctor you can keep -- the whole thing was constructed under a wicked, cruel man iptive lie to gain control of aff sixesth of the economy no matter how much ky it takes. it's a lie. host: talk about how that what the caller was talking about the statement that the president made if you like your health care you can keep it is going to play in the 2014 elections. guest: that's been coming back to haunt him since around november when people or october when people started getting these cancellation notices that basically said their old health plan didn't meet the requirements therefore you have to select a new plan or you're out of luck. if you like your health care plan you can keep it line is a staple already at this point and it's not going anywhere any time soon. and there is actually some concern we might see another wave of cancellations right on the eve of the elections this year, although the administration has made some maneuvers to prevent that from happening. but that's going to be a potent line again it's a fixture of the special election campaign in florida last week, that was that played front and center an a republican won there. so that was a bell weather in some analyst's minds for what we might see. >> on twitter. guest: i think the closer we get you're going to hear more of that. but the idea was always is that you don't want people to be able to sign up the second they get sick. there is there has to be a window where they have to make a decision and so the goal for the administration is to get the word out and educate people but you need that deadline for insurers in particular for this to work for their bottom line and make sure they're sustainable. they need people signing up for insurance for the possibility that they're going to get sick not when they actually are sick and picking and choosing. host: let's go to dan waiting on that line. he's in new hampshire this morning. dan, you're on the "washington journal." guest: calling in lee sponse to the woman from illinois who qualed. as to why it's just republicans that are bashing obama care and why young americans aren't signing up. i'm a young american and i'm an independent. and i live in new hampshire. and we're told that we are going to have all the choices in the world and we're stuck with one inshurens company now. i live in a major city, and it has enormous hospitals, and i would not be able to go to that hospital. and that's for the majority of the major cities in new hampshire. which only have 1.4 million people in the whole state. so i mean, personally i'm not going to sign up. -- all the the part enrollee numbers coming out are skewed. they're not really enrollees. they're based on how many people selected a plan. so i think it's going to be a huge disappointment when it comes time to have these numbers actually come out the real numbers on how many people actually are enrolled and purchased a plan is going to be way lower than what everybody has been projecting and how many people have been enrolled. host: when do we know that those numbers, that the caller is talking about, when are those numbers come out? guest: it may be months. there are still components that aren't built yet and the administration says they may not be built until the summer when we see that data. so it could be a few months at the least. although you can get a rough estimate around 80 to 85% of the people signing up are paying so you sort of ball park it. the caller is correct we don't know how many people have been enrolled at this point. host: another question on enrollments. guest: that's another one of the mysteries we would like to know. we have seen some surveys that suggest started out earlier at 10%, gone up to 25% of people who are again enrolled are new newly enrolled or newly insured. and again that's what strikes part of the heart of the law is to get people who were uninsured into coverage. so knowing that number will be a big help but one of the mysteries we don't know yet. host: on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: thank you for take mig call. way stion is, with the the government has been with the health care, with obamacare started, we had a crash with the obamacare. and my question is, how can we avoid that from happening again? thank you. guest: talking about the website itself? when you're talking about that? caller: yes. the website itself. guest: and again, i mentioned earlier that the website is now for the most part up and running. i think one of the things that that laid bare was part of the problem with the way the federal government contracts with these massive it companies and hands out these massive contracts and the president has spoken to this and says this speaks to the need for contracting reform and the way we select our vendors and the ability to be nimble and flexible when it comes to how we contract and with whom we contract. so i think for any other large undertaking like this, which again this is an undertaking probably larger than any the federal government has ever undertaken, you probably see some kind of reform on the it side in the way the government contracts. host: as we talk about this upcoming deadline we should probably note that there is a difference at what's happening at the end of the month and then signups for medicaid. correct? guest: exactly the march 31 deadline is the deadline for enrollment in exchanges which is the new market places available for people who are above depending on which state you live in above 133% of the poverty level. many are eligible for tax credits. that's the key component for the new law. for those people who don't have affordable coverage offered by their employers. you signed up for medicaid but medicaid you can enroll in all year. host: a question on twitter. guest: and that was one of the things we heard especially in january when coverage first went live and there were gaps and the insurers hadn't been receiving information from the website and feeding incorrect information from the website. so that is definitely a fear i think the administration has made some maneuvers using regulations and urging insurers to be reasonable and treat each case with care and not deny someone important coverage that they need. and then they would sort it out later when they actually correct and reconcile the data. so the idea is that nobody would ever appear in the emergency room or somewhere or be told you're not covered. but again, it's been imperfect and we have heard aneck dotes where people have run into that problem. host: a special line this morning set up for those 35 and younger. we'll go to that line now. pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i was just curious. do you think the president dreamed too big? guest: when it came to the affordable care act here? caller: yes. do you think he saw something that he wants it, he saw something that would be great for this nation. but it just wasn't in reach yet? he just dreamed too big. guest: host: how would you answer your own question? caller: i think that's what happened. the country's not ready for it. we have other thing that is we need to get handled. i mean, our foreign policy's gone to crap. i mean, to hear about it, to hear certain stories, it sounds like the greatest thing ever. yet i mean, have you looked at minimum wage and maybe raised that? giving us the money and the ability to pay some of these premiums and so forth, would that have helped? guest: i think your point is an interesting one because a lot of democrats and his allies in particular say he didn't dream big enough on this law, i think on the left and among democrats the single pair system was always the ideal. which is something that doesn't really have a lot of political traction. but it would eliminate the whole notion of private insurance, which is -- can be very messy and complicated. and it is in part the push to preserve that private insurance system that again occasionally runs up against what democrats really would prefer, that has created some of the complexities of this and some of the problems that we've seen. so in some sense some people would say he tried to be too -- thread the needle too much to preserve the private system but advance health care to all. and when you do that it creates such a thicket of rules and complicated processes, that that actually is the root of the issues that we've seen so far. rather than reaching too far. host: talk about some of the back and forth on the political side. there was another house vote that had to do with part of the affordable care act, a major part on friday. what was that? guest: the house vote on friday just remind me. there's a vote every week on elements. host: to delay. >> right. my mind is going because we have a different repeal vote every week. this one in particular again you mentioned the doc fix, a major change to the medicare physician formula the way they're paid. it's interesting because there's been a bipartisan push in health care you don't see that too often these days among democrats and republicanses in the house and senate to craft a solution to this decades old problem of the way medicare doctors get paid. and it was cruising along and then republicans in the house and the senate actually decide it had way we're going to pay for this change is by delaying the individual mandate which again sort of guts big piece of the affordable care act. and democrats can't support that. it has no traction in the senate. so in a sense it derailed what was actually a bright spot of bipartisanship in the health care arena for the first time in a long time. and so it's unclear if that kills the doc fix for the year, which again is a huge goal in terms of a realigning the way medicare pays its physicians. host: what are the chance force this vote that happened in the house this week in the senate guest: they're nill. the senate won't entertain something that guts a major funding implement. they're back to square one. the policy is still there if they can come up with a pay for it. but delaying the individual mandate will never pass. host: 20 minutes left talking about the looming deadlines for the affordable care act to sign up on those insurance exchanges with kyle cheney, a health care reporter of politico. we're taking your comments on twitter. ou can also e-mail us as well. kevin writes on our twitter page. et's go to diane in texas. caller: good morning. yesterday the president was saying that he has given the green light on the affordable care act. what i would like to know is how could anybody trust that man? he said admittedly on jay leno that he doesn't know math. he couldn't even help his daughter with math. how could he possibly fix an economy and get jobs created when he doesn't know math? he's ill lit rat in it. he should come out right now and explain to us the truth about what's going on. tell us that -- host: can i ask you what's your health care situation and does any of the affordable care act has it affected you? guest: oh, yes. host: how so? caller: you could ask cast row here . host: how has it impacted you personally? caller: for 2-1/2 months all i did every day was go on the website. i called up the attorney general when it switched me over to expeerion. i went out of my mind. i -- a dope addict answered the phone. i couldn't believe it. and i called the attorney general. he had to call washington in the beginning to find out if we were supposed to call expeerion. there was no communications between washington and what was supposed to go on with the act. but obama's good at talking talking rhetoric. but just give us solutions. host: talking about her experience in san antonio, texas. we'll go to david in maryland on our line for those who are 35 and younger. a republican. thanks for calling in this morning. caller: thank you. i just wanted to talk to the gentleman. i'm 31 years old and going to the aca. once you turn 30, you cannot have these quote/unquote catastrophic plans any more. i wanted to say the plan that i have currently with aetna, which they are currently going to leave the state of maryland, and i can't say it's because or not but my plan is 100% co-insurance with a 500 deductible. so the plans that are offered when the state, you know, the common ones are like a 6,000 deductible and would be 06%. even the platinum plans are only 90%. so essentially you could pay more up to a high deductible and then pay part of a cost of the actual coverage once you use the plan which currently i wouldn't pay now, plus it doesn't include anything like dental or vision where mine now covers dental. it's just so ludicrous that these people once they use these plans will realize that the plans are absolute garbage compared to what quote/unquote is junk now. guest: you mentioned the idea about catastrophic plans which again the affordable care act allouse people under 30 as you mentioned to sign up for these certain really small-scale plans. but even some of those small-scale plans have new requirements in them about minimum standards of coverage. so if you were in a plan that didn't meet those that may not be available any more. because you're now over 30 you may not have access to the same kind of catastrophic level plan you described. although there are other exemptions in the health care law that would make you eligible for the plan. and then as you mentioned, too, some of these bronds plans are actually pretty bare-bones coverage. they come with new protections and benefits that may not have been available before the law. but because of the law, because the bronze plans themselves were meant to be sparor than some of the higher tears of coverage you may find yourself with a higher deductible. host: on this st. patrick's day we'll go to irish ice. guest: partly has to do with if you're eligible for tax credits and subsidies from the government, they do a -- sort of a detailed financial check on you that includes through the i.r.s. and homents and other aspects of government where they can verify your records and insure that you truly are eligible for a tax credit. that's part of the process they're using to verify the people who get those tax credits are expected or eligible for them. host: we're talking with kyle cheney, health care reporter with politico. have about 15 minutes or so left to discuss the looming deadline for the affordable care act. would love to hear your experiences. we have a special line set up for those age 35 and younger. the number is on your screen. let's go to david in minnesota on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is pretty simple. i'm a reasonably smart guy and i did the math. when i was working for corporate america i went back and looked it up. my monthly health charge through the company insurance was $460. i called in to the -- one of the affordable care lines and got an estimate. the amount of money that i would have to pay -- and this is personally per month -- is $470 a month. so i'm looking at a yearly bill of $5,600. i am amonged the group of people who have lived a healthy lifestyle. i go out every other morning like clockworks a two-mile walk. i haven't had even a cold for 10 years. so i do myself more as being more in the 35 and under group instead of the 55-year-old where i'm at. all i want from health care is pretty simple. pay for the medications that i need right now. 90-day supply of what i need is $100. i want regular checkups. i don't need anything else at this point in my life. as far as emergency care, i have the reagan health care reform from what was it 1998 that says no emergency room can turn me away. so at that point as opposed to the affordable care act, i am ctually saving myself over $3,000 a year. and if you add in the $700 fine per year from the i.r.s. for not signing up for it, well, then it, it is still close to $3000 a year i am saving. host: your thoughts. sure -- the $700 fine. i think it varies depending on income. the first year, $95 or one percent of your income if you are supposed to get coverage and you don't. i wasn't clear from the caller if he has an employer-sponsored health land, and if the cost of that went up and if that was done by the employer may get a response to some changes. the callerre where would fit in in terms of having prices on theo exchange or tax credit availability and all of that. you do hear situations where people see their bills go up and immediately linked it to the affordable care act and if it is -- and if it is not clear whether the employer made. but the affordable care act becomes -- i don't want to say scapegoat that the cause of concern about seeing premiums rise. host: little rock, arkansas. caller: i am an underwriter. i went through several of the aca classes here in arkansas. thecan tell by the way whole organization for this is put together that they did not bring in anybody who was an expert in any field of creating policies, such things, in the beginning. this think could not have been put together worse from word go. in the united states, insurance has been a regional animal because people make different incomes, have different health. to $6,000,table which is what most cannot afford but if you live in new york or isifornia, $6,000 adaptable probably what you will pay. you live in texas, kentucky, --n south like that, you may not be able to get the money together. as far as people enroll now, we know at least 4 million, as many as 7 million people's insurance was canceled but normally would not so of the people who signed up, we don't know how many are replacement policies. and all the people they put on medicaid, the reason these emergency rooms are even more full is because most doctors will not take medicaid. as far as the whole thing put together, the people thought the little too much about themselves about they could put something together without bringing expert in on it. guest: an argument you hear a lot from critics of the affordable care act, which is the law itself, they basically call it a one-size-fits-all solution where you later these very complicated policies on a nation that is extremely complex. where again, you have states like new york and california that are extremely different than states in the midwest in terms of the cost of living and the expected cost of health care. so when you later these national policies on top of the existing systems in those states and each state retains some form of autonomy over the insurance market, it can be very complicated and you can end up with a lot of states where they are resisting precisely because the affordable care act does not work on their state. host: you talk about critics of the affordable care act. some sit on the republican side of the aisle. on the house ways and means committee, that is where health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius found herself earlier this week answering questions from congressman kevin brady, republican congressman. here is a bit of that exchange. [video clip] >> madam secretary, when you were a for the committee april of last year you ensured there would be no more delays of the affordable care act. we have had eight delays since those assurances which brings the total of 35. for families at home, what other delays can they expect? are you going to delay the mandate that individuals have to buy government approved health care or pay a tax? >> no, sir. >> are you going to delay the open enrollment beyond march 31 question for >> no, sir. >> is it correct that you don't have the authority to extend that deadline? position the centers for medicare and medicaid made, do you agree with that? >> i have not seen their statement, sir, but there is no delay beyond march 31. kyle cheney, how much concern is there that there will be further delays? said: the line of delays the narrative that the bill was not ready for crime -- prime time. they delayed pieces of the periodically. we are not getting a piece -- any signals that any core components of the law will be delayed, whether before the enrollment deadline or march 31 and no signal at all they will extend the deadline am a perhaps maybe for people who had last-minute glitches. i don't think you will see the sort of delays we have seen to this point, which is the big one being the delay of larger employers providing coverage and escaping penalties if they don't. number we have seen a today and republicans underscore that as we get closer to election season, the more they talk about delays and the more it emphasizes that parts of the law were not ready to go live when they were supposed to be. host: a special line for those 35 or younger. washington,re in dc. good morning. go ahead. i am about to turn 25 in april and i got a job. i moved down from new hampshire, like one of your previous callers. i decided to stay on my parents insurance. i was not making enough money -- i guess i am making not enough money to get a subsidy -- i guess i am making enough money not to get a subsidy. i want to the website. i was totally refused to my dad talked me into staying on his insurance for another year because it was such a disaster area. host: and experience you have heard other people have? guest: one of the bright spots for the white house is the estimate around 3 million young adults stay on their parents' plans, and people who may not have that coverage of the wise and individual market or the jobs. when you hear white house talking about millions and rolled, they include a 3 million adults who are able to have covered to not because they stayed on the parents plan. through 26. peoplenot heard about transitioning away once they hit the 26th birthday and have to , those people as they have to -- they have to relearn experiencing the marketplace. host: keith from evansville, indiana. good morning. colorcode good morning, gentlemen. yes, my comment is -- caller: good morning, gentlemen. yes, my comment is my feeling is that everything is being implemented all at one time. the health care, the immigration policy, the stopping of building , the scandal and all of that. it seems like all of this is one big conspiracy to break our country. to pile on so much stuff that there is no way we are going to get out from under it. my son works at a cemetery. he's got a children. and he was promised a job, a full-time job. now since this health care -- this health care thing is coming, he works 29 hours a week and he has to take care of eight kids. he works as but off digging graves all and freezing, 18 degrees below zero, he's got to be there and do his job. help,he is not there to it puts all the work off of my wife. isust feel that all of this one big bill to break our country. this is just a feeling i have at this moment. i voted for president obama. is calling everybody a liar -- liar. all he has to do is call me and i can prove to him my son cannot have his job because of health care. about theerns health-care law cutting back on hours that people can work. guest: absolutely. that is one of the lines you will hear a lot more of year. republicans, in the many hopes to gut the law, actually focused of america,timing saying the law actually encourages companies to employ people fewer than 30 hours ago is that is the threshold that employers need to provide full coverage. aboutave been talking pushing it up to 40 hours and even some democrats are sympathetic to that. although the administration argues there is no data that suggests employers are making that shift toward part-time. on ouroyce is in texas line for republicans. good morning. you are on "washington journal." caller: good morning. i am calling because my husband and i fall into a group -- we are self-employed. fluctuates from month to month, week to week. see abouted to insurance, because we never had insurance. but because we don't qualify for subsidies because sometimes we make more money and someone -- months we make less money, the insurance agent said that if we went above a certain amount, that we would have to repay any subsidies that we have qualify for before. so even looking at the bronze plan, the premium would have been $850 a month and then a $6,000 deductible per person. $850 is equal to my house payment. up.our income is not going i just wondered if there is anything that could be done for --ple who are self-employed we kind of seems to be left out of the equation. guest: at is true. the self-employed do not always fit into a neat box limit comes to health policy. one of the things you talk about that is a real field is real fear that we will hear more of is the notion of reconciliation. receive aes if people tax credit and income during the year was higher than expected, they are actually required to pay back the amount that they shouldn't have received had they predicted the income accurately. when you talk about fluctuating income and whether you may be above or below a certain line for a tax credit, that is something we will hear a lot more about later in the year and it will impact the war self-employed. on the other side of the coin, you will hear from supporters of the law that people have more freedom to pursue their own business ventures and be self-employed because they are not locked into certain jobs where they are totally dependent on that job for their health care. so on the flip side, there are some aspects of the law that could free people up to pursue their own employment, their own business ideas, but then again, you are going to hear complications in terms of things like how do you receive subsidies. host: we talked about the tax penalty. another question from twitter -- is it true the tax penalty can only be elected from tax refunds refundyou go -- get no and do not buy insurance, how will the tax be collected? guest: it is correct. it is meant, when you file your taxes during tax season, the irs certifies whether or not you had health care during all the months you were required to have health care. essentially, if you had health for anything less than nine months of a year you are subject to a penalty and it varies based on your income. it is deducted from your return. i heard theories -- although i am not 100% -- not 100th uninsured -- if you did not receive return they have no mechanism of cannot -- of collecting it from you. host: kyle cheney from politico, health care reporter. he also covered previously when he worked at the statehouse news service in boston. guest: that correct. health care is a pretty big deal and everybody thinks of massachusetts a precursor to obamacare. host: a couple of callers waiting for you. ham, north in dur carolina. caller: good morning. i wonder what health care would look like if democrats, republicans, independents, and americans all worked together. looking at some kind of alzheimer's disease. president obama, when he tried to pass health care, he had so much opposition, it would not have passed. theried to push single-payer system, and every republican went against that. g inthey are still callin this, talking about the problems. but i wonder if we all worked together as americans what health care would look like question mark -- would look like? people a few years ago what it might look like if everyone worked together, you might have people describing the system like the one we have, at least if you talk to supporters of this law. they will say this is built on republican free-market ideas where you actually boost private sector insurance and preserved the system as opposed to what the democrats want, which is the single-payer system which would have totally scrapped everything that is there and disrupted -- been a lot more disruptive than even the admittedly disruptive system that is in place today. it will be interesting to see what it would be like in that sort of hypothetical world with everyone working together. but it may not be so far off from what we looking at today. host: concorde, new hampshire. the line for independents. you will be the last caller for the segment. caller: good morning. this personal call from new hampshire earlier and talked about only one option, one insurance company. i've done research in this because i just have the time to and everybody says this is a federal takeover of health care, but what they forget is there are 50 insurance commissioners. i am happy kyl worked in issachusetts, because when worked in massachusetts and lived in new hampshire i had to get insurance under romneycare. the only problem was he was no good in new hampshire. i actually had to have two health insurance is, one when i was home and adding to my home state and one when i was at work. i insurance new hampshire would not cover me in math and my math insurance will not cover me in new hampshire. say thaterybody to obamacare made all these changes, better start looking at your own state insurance commission. host: kyle cheney, in the last minute. guest: new hampshire is such an interesting situation, as the previous caller mentioned. you have one insurer in the exchange, mississippi has two. you hear a lot of situations where people are not thrilled with the options that are out there. there really aren't options. you are hearing republican starting to put together an alternative proposal to obamacare i wanted the features is the ability for insurers to sell policies across state lines -- one of the features is the ability for insurers to sell policies from across state lines. in a mess -- it is a messy situation where each state gets to control its own insurance market and you later obamacare on top of that and he creates these complexities and conflicts with state and federal law. host: that alternative proposal from republicans making news just this weekend as well. jacob exactly. "washington post" had a story about the principles they are outlined. they are familiar principles but they are at least 30 to but together the pieces of the rebuttal. host: always appreciate you coming by "washington journal." next we will talk about the five-year anniversary of the home affordable modification program, which allows average homeowners to temporarily reduce mortgage payments. but first, a news update from c-span radio. secretary of state john kerry has announced a new special envoy for syria. naming career diplomat daniel rubenstein to the post. theucceeds robert ford in job who retired earlier this year amid a breakdown and talks between the syrian government and opposition forces. secretary kerry says ambassador rubenstein will travel to the region in the coming week. turning to the situation in ukraine, nato secretary-general tweets this hour that the "so-called referendum in crimea is illegal and illegitimate and that it violated the ukrainian constitution and international law." adding that nato allies do not recognize the result. nbc news reports that ukraine's parliament and/or state residential decreed today to deploy 40,000 reservists to the army and national guard. just hours after crimea voted to join russia. minutes ago, the associated press reported that european union foreign ministers imposed travel bans and asset freezes on running when people they linked to a push for the succession and possible annexation of ukraine's crimean peninsula. the ministers meeting in brussels but not immediately release the names and nationalities of those targeted by the sanctions. and those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> what we are focused on making sure we can eliminate barriers to getting those networks in place, building out these networks is our priority. sometimes there are local siting issues, sometimes federal rules that might affect how we or what thengs lighting might be an impact on historic sites on the environment. we want to make sure we are sensitive to those issues. at the same time we want to make sure we move forward on employment because -- deployment because our customers who use these devices every day depend on having a good, strong connection and getting day-to-day when they wanted and wherever they wanted. >> the wireless infrastructure, tonight on "the communicators" 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. "washington journal" continues. this segmentek in we take a look at how your money is at work in a different federal program. this week we are joined by phillip swagel, professor phillip swagel, former assistant treasury secretary for economic policy. we will be discussing the home affordable modification program, which markets five-year anniversary earlier this month. is theor swagel, what hamp program and why was it created in the first place? guest: hamp was a response to the financial crisis. y did lots of things to stabilize the markets and in 2008 and into thousand nine individual steps were taken to help homeowners. of programsuite undertaken by the obama administration starting in 2009 to help individual homeowners, whether to modify mortgages, reduce the principal -- you use -- and now or units you owe $200,000, or lowering interest rates. host: how much money was put into the hand for a gram? -- into the hamp program? guest: the amount of money spent, $10 billion, in real terms is a lot of money but relative to the size of $700 billion in tarp is not a huge amount. most of the money to help individual homeowners came not directly from the federal government through fannie mae and freddie mac, through refinancing. individual homeowners got lower interest rates and the owners of the mortgages as a result got lower payments come and we as taxpayers were owners of many of those mortgages through our ownership of fannie mae and freddie mac. host: statistics on how many program,ed the hamp according to the inspector general. about 1.20 7 million mortgages have been modified under hamp, about 894,000 are still active. defaultedave re- according to the report. that rate of default, is that high according to projections? guest: yeah, it is disappointing but not too surprising. over the last five years we have had a very weak economy and for much of the period, home prices have continued to fall. theireone who has lost job and his underwater on their mortgage and owes more on their loans in the house is worth, there is a very substantial incentive to walk away from their home and allow foreclosure . that's it, the bank in most states do not go after the car or attach wages. it is a powerful center for foreclosure. host: we showed this to our viewers watching a little bit earlier, but we want to talk eligibility requirement. how does one qualify? guest: it is a little bit of a program that is ending because it was meant to help people who through the beginning of 2009 were stuck in unsustainable situations, high interest rates, and could not refinance. years later.e many of the people who were in that circumstances who were meant to be hamp or the suite of tools are now either ok with their home prices going up or they already refinance for they are ready sold and moved. the number of people still eligible is very small. host: is there a number of how much it lowered peoples mortgage payments by? guest: i wrote it down. n monthly savings was er household.h p again, it is not a huge amount of money -- host: the 1.20 7 million people 1.27 million people. guest: what is interesting, another 28 .6 million people who refinance mortgages on their own. we know what happened. interest rates went rock bottom and everyone and their neighbor refinance their mortgage. many people did it on their own. they were not in trouble. they could afford their home. they got a good deal. all is good. but, the 27 million were people who were in danger, and they got help on their own in the private sector. that does not get counted in the special inspector general's report, but it is part of -- i think part of the program that has helped. host: we were talking with phillip swagel, former assistant treasury secretary for economic policy. also a professor of international economics at the university of maryland school for public policy. we are talking in the "your money" segment on the hamp program, home affordability modification program. our phone lands are open. host: and we have a special line for hamp participants -- we would love to hear your stories and how they impacted you -- how it impacted you. when does it end? guest: the administration formally extended it for another year or two. it is coming to an end in the sense that there are very few people who still need the help. again, there are not many americans still in trouble, still in a difficult situation but given the particular eligibility requirements of someone losing their home before 2009 and had trouble with their mortgage, there are very few people in that situation still left. host: we talked about the sigtarp report on the hamp program. here's a chart from that report that we will show to our viewers. it talks about the re-defaulted homeowners who participated in hamp. it breaks it down by region. it noted that the highest re- default rate, those who used the program but then re-defaulted on their loans, cap and in the southwest region, south central region. 104,000 people participated in modifications under the hamp program. defaulted, a0 re- rate of 32%. almost 200,000 people participated in the midwest, 62,500 re-defaulted, a rate of 31%. was there an expectation of numbers of people who would re- default, even though they were using the hamp program? guest: a lot of this was set up on the fly with lots of tinkering, it is probably some of the problems with the program. the adjustments cap coming and it made it difficult for the financial sector side of the occasion to implement it -- the adjustments kept coming. i would say the numbers on the high side but they are not unexpected, again, given what has happened over the last five years. this is where someone has gotten assistance. they are having trouble with their loan and they got assistance, whether their loan balance that reduced or their interest rate. lowered, or both. and then a year later, six later,later, 18 months they got something else and they cannot make it. unfortunately it is naturally going to happen in the weak economy we have had. some people got a modification and it looks good to go, or maybe themselves or their spouse lost a job and they could not do it. it is a tough question for society. someone who can't afford their home, to what extent should the rest of us help them out? bigourse, there is a very incentive and reason why we should, but there is a countervailing reason on the other side saying there should be a limit to public assistance. host: it goes to sandy's question on twitter. since when has it become the government's duty to step in and give free taxpayer money out to save homeowners from default? on theof course, it is other side. it is a very powerful factor behind the obama administration's design. i was in the bush treasury, so i was not there when they did the design. things we talked about when i was in the treasury, and we thought about. the obama administration was trying to thread a needle between helping people and being effective, but not helping so -- what the caller had to say, it is a very legitimate thing. why should this caller help a neighbor who bought too big of a home stay in their house? but there is a good reason, though, and this is something former fed chair ben bernanke has said. if your neighbor defaults on their home, the grass does not get cut, they sell their home for less than they might otherwise, and it affects you in their neighborhood. there's frustration but there is a powerful reason why you might want to help others. and of course, in a rich and caring society, we want to help our neighbors to begin with. host: jim on twitter says that 20%total re-default rate, over the entire program, according to the report here it he says it is outrageously high and approves they made loans to deadbeats. can you talk about how people were selected to participate in this program? i know we went over the qualifications. the comment, that is a tough one. it is hard to know which people make it with some help. people'sis to look at individual situations -- which again, administrative lead, difficult. how many viewers would know where all their loan documents are and be able to produce them? you look at each individual homeowner and say, ok, here is your interest rates that's interest rate now the value of your loan. if we knocked down the value of your loan, if we look we interest rate from 6.5 to 4.5, what does it do to your monthly payment and your incentive? and then try to get low enough so it looks like the homeowner a sustainable. many of these so-called re- default people, they met the criteria. the monthly payment was reduced enough that it looked like they would make it, and then something happened. for many of them, maybe they lost their job and many people lost their job in 2010 after getting a modification. and that is just what is going to happen in a weak economy as we have had for much of the last five years. host: let's go to the callers. a special line set up for hamp participants. 585-3883. other lines are open and we will put them on the screen as well. one of the hamp participants calling in is from st. louis, missouri. he is a democrat and a hamp participant. good morning. i would like to comment on a couple of the facts right quick. first of all, to the guy who calls people deadbeats because that takes advantage. i mean, an unfair disadvantage of an unsuspecting consumer not being financially versed in doing a home loan. america.e problem in sugarcoated by saying the person bit off more than they can chew. how can you blame a victim for a crook? the banks are crooks. me and my wife, when we purchased our home, we had a credit but they put us with the worst loan products, the highest payment. we did not get a walk-through on our house. there were so many things that they violated. , as this program is coming to an end, had you started to see your mortgage rate go back up, and would you mind sharing how much you're seeing them go up? bank has never did anything. they send you all of these offers. they told us they would reduce are known, and this would be our new payment. and then they turn around and try to make us qualify for something we already purchased. 1500, then was adjusted up to $3500, the president or nobody in america could've afforded their home. guest: a couple of thoughts. these are the kinds of stories that go behind the numbers. administration's statistics, if you go to the treasury website there is a link for the number of people help. millions of people, just like our caller, who had got the runaround from the bank or the help was not enough or some other thing happened. of course, one of the most difficult parts of the housing fiasco is foreclosure that millions of americans got into homes they cannot afford. again, i am not saying this particular caller, because i do not know the individual situation. but i think we all understand that. some people were duped, some were victims of predatory lending and some people were victims of themselves, in terms of their eyes bigger than their wallet. and the foreclosure crisis is a mix of all of that, and that is what is so hard, which is to say, which of those people should be helped? a person who cannot afford her home but has three investor homes. the obama administration tried not to help them, but it is hard to weed those people out. two more thoughts on the same topic. the consumer financial protection bureau has a mandate to go after this behavior. predatory lending practices by banks, they have a mandate and they are acting on it. one of the problems as they are not setting out how they are acting on it. you can imagine from the consumer's perspective, you want someone with your back, you want someone watching out for you. from the lender's perspective, you want to know what the rules bre good and the cfp be -- cfp is not done that and it has gone after banks, gotten banks to admit guilt, without saying what the fault is. there could be built. in the could be problems, but we need clear rules of the road so banks can make loans, consumers can find on the dotted line. we need to get our house in system that to normal, and unfortunately we're still some ways away. host: the five-year anniversary of the home affordable modification program did earlier this month. we are talking about it in today's segment on "washington journal." let's go to fred waiting in ohio on our line for republicans. fred, good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. can you hear me? host: yeah, go ahead. i worked in my industry my entire life. i literally got my real estate license and eight -- 80 -- 818, for the broker's license at 21. i am a little over 50. there are so many other solutions. when you go to purchase a property with a mortgage you are generally required to have title insurance. you are generally entitled to have insurance to protect it in the event it is damaged, for whatever reason. you can actually head to the change in value. case shiller came up with the perfect equation. i do it every bit -- every year. you can go to the cme and you can hedge the decline in value of your property. you can also had your interest rate changes. and the cost may be one percent maybe oneit costs percent a year. so why not required -- particularly in the high risk loans, if someone is paying less than 20% they should be required. they are already paying mortgage insurance. they are already paying other things. my dad as well later it off and it shares the risk across the board. it also forces them to become more sophisticated in what options they have available to them. at, we could have avoided the vast majority of these things. because it was definitely people who didn't understand, as the one gentleman said earlier. guest: thanks very much. it is a really great comment. areas.goes into so many as a nation, with all brave homeownership, and properly so. there are many positive externalities from having safe neighborhoods to lower crime, having people invested in their homes and the neighborhoods. and then again, many americans are not quite ready yet for homeownership that you want to make sure people are in a sustainable home. some of the tools fred mentioned would do exactly this. of course, title insurance. but when he talks about hedging the interest rate and price risk. they are really great tools. one of the problems in 2007, 2008, which exacerbated the downward momentum of the housing market is the phenomenon will -- if people do not want to catch a falling knife. a terrible metaphor. home prices were going down and both homeowners and investors did not want to buy homes in a neighborhood in vegas or arizona or the inland empire and california were home prices were falling and the foreclosure dynamics were such that they could be expected to fall, and that behavior put further downward pressure on prices. there are financial products to hedge exactly these kinds of risks. of course, fire insurance when there is a fire is very expensive. so these kinds of financial mechanisms would add to the cost of home ownership. i agree with the caller, he thinks we as a nation should seriously consider it a muggle we have to understand there are impact in both directions. and another thing i want to vehemently agree with the caller that financial education is something that is needed. clearly it was shown in the wake of the crisis. too many americans did not understand what they were getting into. and the documents are complex. financing is complex. but it is very important. host: we mentioned the hamp program is coming to an end and mortgage rates are starting to reset for those participants to the rate they had before dissipating the program. on "the washington post" lays out the number of homes and participants will see their mortgages reset in the coming years. 30,000 will see their mortgages reset in 2014. close to 257,000 in 2015 and it in 2016, to 188,000 125,000 in 2017 and just over 100,000 in 2018. we are talking about the hamp program in the "your money" segment. whether special line for hamp participants. line inn that jacksonville, florida. jia is a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. several little comments to make, and i will try to make it quick. i have been through three housing seminars that have come through jacksonville to help homeowners that are trying to get their loans refinanced or their payments reduced. and over 95% of the people that are at -- that come to the seminars are just average working people that don't own two and three properties, that were in just a regular mortgage, and they were trying to apply to or apply for am modification within their mortgage company. and payments were only reduced not enough to really make a difference, according to their financials. one, the mortgage lenders were able to say we helped those people even though they did not really help someone. if your mortgage is $1500 and it they puteduced $200, all the behind payments on the bottom and it would appear on paper that the mortgages were reduced, but not really. make them look good, but not really to help the participants in their situation. two, in my case, i didn't buy a home that was above my limit. $92,000. but today they tacked on $117,000 worth of fees that no one at this point cannot explain. modifications were not based on your current financial situation. wererd that they computer-generated and they were generated to make every thing even and fair in an perfect and a world to make it look like they helped the participants. saying is, i don't know where he gets the statistics from, but if he has ever been to the seminars, we are just average working people. host: i will let professors wiggle jump in. guest: thanks very much for the comment. the statistic i mentioned when i looked down, right from the treasury website. treasury.gov. and on the right-hand side of the screen, there is a fee. that is what i'm looking at. let me mention two issues raised by the caller. there is no rent answer here, and that is what makes it tough. we are trying to help people with the right amount but not too much. it is really a fine balancing act. if president obama would reflect on this backwards, and maybe tim geithner in his forthcoming book will do this, they will conclude that they were probably too prudent in their perspective. it is a tough balancing act. if they were going to do this, do a homeowner bailout, they've got all the political fire for doing this, for bailing out a homeowner, but they do not do it as effectively as they could have. they only got really effective when they eventually did harp ii , a wider scale refinancing program which ironically was suggested by ed demarco, a career staffer and a holdover from the bush administration. --se are some of the most some of the most effective programs were suggested by people from the bush administration. i'm sure that we'll get some calls on the democratic line. tough part, which is, as the caller mentioned, interest rate modification or the mortgage modification was enough to make it look good but not enough to help them. it is a tough question. and housing part lands they talk about the front end and the back and. imagine somebody who gets a lot of help on their mortgage. their mortgages cut down so it looks like they can afford it, but that same person as credit card debt or other bills. maybe alimony or child support. things like that, which is a very normal situation in our society. you might even expect that housingwho has a lot of debt might also have a lot of credit card debt. the overextended in one direction and maybe in another as well. you can consider all of that if you are going to look at someone's entire financial situation, but that takes time. 2009, 2010, the focus was on speed, on getting people some help right away. and so some of these backend data were not considered as well as they could have been. people were not helped as much as they and needed to. if someone had a huge credit card debt, is it society's responsibility to help them or should they be a renter and rather than a homeowner? let me went in -- mention one other thing that was in the news recently, a national mortgage settlement. the attorneys general of the united states got together to banks and got a certain number of billions of dollars of help. the state of california was just sued by a coalition of housing help groups to say, look, governor brown, you took these billions of dollars that you said was going to help people and you put it to your own purposes, to stabilize the state budget. now you are boasting about the state budget is in great shape -- which is not, but that is what he is boasting about -- but there are millions of californians you said you would help and you didn't. host: you talk about the news recently. there is a new housing related proposal that just came out, i believe, just yesterday, in the senate. correct? guest: that is right. host: what is that? guest: a lot going on still in housing. there is a sense in which housing is the unfinished business of the financial crisis. the dodd-frank law on banks, but housing and how -- and housing finance is still there. senators johnson and crapo, chairman and ranking member of the senate banking committee, yesterday released a text of a proposal on reforming housing finance. this is the form of any may and -- fannie mae and freddie mac. the idea is to better protect taxpayers. there was a $190 million -- $190 billion bailout of fannie and freddie. to better protect taxpayers and at the same time provide the roles of the game so private funds and again flow and be the cash behind mortgages. i still think we can do both as taxpayers and provide better access to mortgages, including those who now are shut out, who cannot get a mortgage now because they perhaps had a being or to on the credit report -- ding or two on the credit report. host: we have 15 minutes left to talk about a hamp program. a few tweets, a common, and then a question. karen's comment. what about personal responsibility? buyers must sign under penalty of perjury that they understand the month it a question from joy availablehamp program to non-us citizens? guest: the second one is a really good question. i don't know. if someone is a legal resident -- that is a good question. i don't know. it is a great question. of course, that has been a big issue with health care, with the affordable care act, which is non-citizens. to on the personal responsibility and signing on a data line. of course, i suspect all of us, when we took the cellophane off of our new laptop computer, click on the button saying i read it and i understand it. i bet one or two of us didn't. where we click but we did not read. i absolutely agree. for most of us, buying a home is the biggest and most important purchase -- biggest and most important financial transaction of their life. and everyone has a responsibility to understand it. in reality, many people didn't. in part, because the products, the mortgages that were used in the run-up to the financial crisis were complex. for twointerest rates or three years, and in their interest rate reset, and it reset based on interest rate index tabulated in london by a bunch of big banks. is natural that many americans do not understand, and the information they were given was not enough to help them understand. that is something the consumer financial protection bureau really has done very well, telling banks you have to provide better information to potential home buyers, including but the payment is going to look like going forward. -- i am not disagreeing about the personal responsibility part. i just think the situation is pretty complex. but there has been some progress on a. host: 10 minutes left with phillip swagel, former assistant secretary of treasury for economic policy, 2006-2009. as i said, a professor of economics at maryland school of public holocene here to take -- public policy, here to take your calls. specialized for hamp participants and ron is on that line, west chesterfield, new hampshire. he is a democrat as well. caller: good morning. can you hear me? ok, great. i am a participant of the hamp program. i've got to tell you, i think that this program -- in fact, i am so this program saved not only my home but also my family as well. i have two disabled members of my family. we had won a five percent down. i am a very hard-working american. had not a deadbeat -- we 25% down. i am a very hard-working americans that i am not a deadbeat. when president bush allowed our economy to crash, i lost is the spirit i'm self-employed. things went a little bit bad. we surely would have lost our home had it not been for this and my family probably would have been split updated there is absolutely no way we would have gotten another home that would have accommodated the disabled members of my family. and i am so thankful for this program. now i have a question. what is the difference between a predatory loan and loansharking? if there is no difference -- and i don't believe there is -- why are these banks that were doing these predatory loans and these extremely high interest rates, taking advantage of people wherever and whenever they could backing 2008 -- back in 2008, why are they not in jail? predatory loan is just another nice word for loansharking. these people should be paying for their crimes. guest: ok, well, i just have to start with one note. the comment about president bush in 2008 "allow the economy to crash." to me, it is one of the symptoms of our divided society. you're one caller earlier talks about the deadbeats, which obviously ron took some exception to, and i think they're reasonably. and you say president bush allowed the economy to crash, which obviously he did not allow the economy to crash. i would say the bush administration, from president bush on down took determined action, creative determined action to make the situation course, iut of understand -- i again, i am family say that but i think it is a little over-the-top. so predatory lending is a real issue. loan forhe right different families? there are some loans, the kind of loan they mentioned before, that have a reset provision. ee year time period of a fixed rate of very little interest rate and then the interest rate resets and it goes up. that might be an appropriate thing for someone. someone whose income is low now but will be high in the future, it is a perfectly reasonable thing. but for many americans, it was not the right mortgage. it was a teaser, it was a pure e.as someone who could afford the low rate but could not afford the next 27 years. completely inappropriate loan. and too many lenders do not do that kind of analysis, did not explain it to people. hey, look, you have to think of all 27 years. and of course, too many americans did not do the analysis on their own. loansharking has certain connotations. the banking industry is very heavily regulated. but what is not heavily regulated until recently was actually origination. of the mortgage origination is regulated at the state level. again, look at the state of california, the epicenter of the foreclosure crisis, that was a failure of regulation and supervision there. and the last thought is this has been in the newspaper just today , about the priorities of the obama administration in enforcing the law. of course, we all know they choose what to enforce and what not to, and it turns out that going after this lending activity was at the bottom of their priority list. know, absolutely, i agree that people who acted badly should face the consequences. host: a comment on our twitter page. good people are still struggling to keep your family in their home in 2014. shouldn't this problem be solved question mark at birth -- question for you, professor swagel. how does the administration measured the success of this program? when it is all said and done, how will they say this has been a success or failure? guest: a good question. and with the caller said is right -- it is 2014 and people are still struggling. on the administration's website they have a monthly scorecard that treasury and hud department put out, and it gives the numbers. the treasury website has numbers. just looking down to read some of them. modifications, 3 million refinances to underwater anothers, fha helping 3.2 million. there are a whole number of statistics he could go through, and these are millions of homeowners helped. -- then another 26.8 million 2620 homeowners that refinancing other open private means. but million suffer closed on. ns like mine in new hampshire when a situation with a difficult economy and different situation and did not make it and suffer closed on. me, that is the terrible tragedy, that there are millions of americans, way more than there should have been, in that situation. and they are the am so the last five years. the financial crisis on the legacy of the financial crisis is what we as a society did not get that. what i saw him this is in terms of the obama administration, if you look at the numbers they put people,y helped many and maybe even more than i would have expected them to be able to give them the kind of modest amount of help they did offer people. but they promised much more, right? early 2009 and as americans we do not know back then that really president obama would overpromise and under deliver, kind of his mo. this was the first 10. in this case he was the victim of his own overpromising, where in the end he actually delivered hee than people think but vastly overpromise so he is still dealing with the political fallout five years later. it's great time for a few more phone calls. -- host: time for a few more phone calls. brian and washington, d.c., on the line for independents. you're on the line with professor phillip swagel. caller: i just have a couple of questions. i have an investment property in maryland, and is that property -- would that qualify for a hamp , i guess, modification? guest: know, generally it will not. i do not know the details of every single program but in general they tried to limit the programs to owner occupied rather than investor housing. host: another question? caller: the other question is, can you tell me in your own xactly what made homes lose their value? it seems that people are trying to say it was the owners and the borrowers. what actually dropped the value of homes and caused this catastrophe? guest: that is a great question and i think academically made this many will be struggling with for years, what were the factors and what were the causes. the first place i would suggest looking is the financial crisis inquiry commission established i congress, it put out this huge report which is really not very good, unfortunately. it was contentious and politicized. , only 27y a dissent pages, with excellent. it is notead it, political. it goes through the causal factors in a very clear and crisp away. that is the first thing i would recommend. ng, in my owni words is what you asked for, is whose fault is it. to me it is the difficulty. no one person is at fault, no one institution. there is a sense in which the entire system failed. banks made loans they should not have, homeowners find them at that align for think they should not have done, credit rating agencies messed up, investors around the world invested in mortgage securities and did not do due diligence. the government did not supervise. the government did not have the right regulations of fannie mae and freddie mac. and on. you can go on and on. it is not like there is one thing that failed and therefore everything is messed up. is everything on top to bottom failed. this is the question of my mind -- imagine if one of those links had not been broken? the investors said, hey, i am not going to buy that subprime mortgage-backed security because i don't know what is in it and they look like crazy loans. i demanded the loan documents and these look like crazy loans. i'm not investing in that. then the money would not have flowed down to the homeowners in california. to me, that is the tragedy, is there were so many broken links that lead to this. host: that is all the time we have with phillip swagel, professor of economic policy at maryland school of public policy and also a former treasury secretary for economic policy in 2006-2 thousand nine. i appreciate you coming on to talk about the hamp program this morning. that will be the show for you today. one programming note, tonight on booktv and prime time on c-span2 we will talk about u.s.-russia relations, and including the book "the new cold war." berman will discuss "implosion," his book, and the afterwards program will discuss "the limits of partnership." that is tonight on c-span2. in the meantime, we hope you have a great tuesday and a great st. patrick's day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] luck, we've got snow here in the nation's capital covering much of the mid-atlantic region here in washington, d.c., between 5 - 10 inches. most of our life programs were canceled. thisess happens to be out before a planned recess. members will return for legislative work next week. in use today we're learning that president obama signed an executive order imposing sanctions on russian officials within the government responsible for ukraine. the white house released a statement saying today's actions and a strong message to the russian government that there are can't does for their actions that violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of ukraine including action supporting referendum for crimean separation. theident obama is welcoming
to hear from women about how your opportunities today compared to the opportunities your mother had when she was growing up. what challenges to mothers and women still face in those areas he echo -- in those areas? if you are in the eastern or central time zone -- e-mail us at journal@c-span.org. a very good mother's day to you. opportunities compared to those of your mother? it was a subject taken up in a series of essays today. the headline of those essays -- in this piece in "the washington post" -- one other piece in that is by the d.c. police chief here in washington dc. she writes -- just two of the pieces you can find in today's washington post. we are opening up the question to our viewers, how do your opportunities compared to that of your mother? we are talking to female viewers only read our phone lines are open. before we get to your calls, a few stats from the pew research .enter a report came out last week and noted there were fewer of today's moms that are married. 69%.ed moms account for 15% are divorced, separated, or widowed. 15% never married. back in the 1960's only two percent of moms -- in the 1960's 92% of moms were married. it also has stats on how many kids mothers had back in the 60's versus today. american mothers are expected to have on average one point nine children compared to 3.7 children in 1960. the average for hispanic mothers is 2.2 children over the course of their lifetime impaired to one point not for non-hispanic 1.8 four asiannd and non-hispanic white mothers. in 1965 mother spent about 10 hours per week in childcare efforts. week were spent on housework and eight hours per week doing paid work. in 2011 those numbers were 14 hours per week in childcare, 18 hours per week in housework, and 21 hours per week in paid work. just some of the changes over time. we are asking how your opportunities compared to those of your mother. our phone lines are open. we will start with marissa calling in from montana this morning. good morning. good morning c-span. i'm so grateful for c-span. i love book tv. if you could possibly expanded during the weeknights i would appreciate it. my comment is there are so many opportunities for women and i am so grateful for c-span. could you possibly start showcasing women outside of the beltway that are working for animal rights issues? pitas working to root animal rights. there are lots of women doing to -- there are aen lot of women doing stuff. to our question how your opportunities today compared to those of your mother, any thoughts on that? amazing,y mother was she got two or three degrees. we american women are so spoiled rotten. the women outside of america need our help and support. if we just reach out to our sisters across the way -- those 300 girls they are trying to rescue. thank you for your hard work. i am so grateful. host: thank you for the call this morning. we want to hear from female viewers. we are asking how your opportunities compared to those of your mother. phone lines by region, eastern and central time zones -- mountain and pacific time zones -- the conversation also happening on our twitter page and facebook page. facebook.com/c-span. a few comments from our facebook page this morning -- one other comment from our facebook page this morning -- you can join in on that conversation on facebook. a few more stats from the pew research poll am comparing .others over the decades mothers and the labor force accounted for 47% of children -- of women with children younger than 18 creative in 2012 it was 71% with women with children younger than 18. . hear your comments this morning on this subject. waiting into linda fayetteville, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. opportunitiesore -- i have a lot more opportunities then my mom had. i was able to go to college. i just think the young girls today -- the sky is the limit. if they make sure they get a good education they can do anything they want to do. -- shewas not able to always wanted to be a nurse but she was not able to go to school but i was able to go to college. i think opportunities are tremendous for young girls today. thank you for the call. loretta is waiting as well in columbus, ohio. good morning. caller: hello. when it comes down to the opportunity of the women that are faced with the obstacle of theirhey go through color, race, nationality, that takes a lot of time. sometimes that takes out the -- rtunity we have to look forward to the we have to follow when it comes to our skills and also the determination of making sure that we get there. it has a lot to do with the background, it is coursese same obstacle but in a different manner. tell us about your mother's experience. you bring up educational obstacles. the chief face educational obstacles he echo caller: -- obstacles -- did she face educational obstacles? caller: she did not have the same opportunities i did. when you go into the lifestyle where you try to take on the light struggles of everyday opportunities in your community, to live on, and that a single -- er all the time that takes circumstances. -- i want to thank you for having the opportunity to talk. we are asking our viewers how your opportunities compared to that of your mother's. we are talking to female viewers on the washington journal. several stories on this topic around the country. here is "the pittsburgh post-gazette here co. -- post-gazette." the headline -- owens,uote from jennifer talking about some of the resistance out there for women in the workplace. we go to pat in minnesota. thank you for calling. caller: thank you for presenting this opportunity to talk about it. i am in my later 70's. my working career began before 1976. i'm thinking about my mother. my mother's only opportunity after she was married was during world war ii. the woman went to work in this country. war the mothers were expected to go back home. 50's and in the early had my children. i was a single mother at the time. a joblooking at losing because one of my children had to have surgery and i couldn't get anybody to take care of him. i lost a job. now i think about all the things they wouldn't hire married women during the korean war. my husband was in korea. thomasdn't get a job relied about our marital status. so much difference. ,t took two acts of congress both the sexist discrimination and the age discrimination. job. 42 before i got a i was working in a processing plant here up in minnesota. the i am thinking is difference is i look at my , she drives anow truck for the highway department for minnesota. she has four children. seeas been interesting to how these generations have progress to read -- have progress. they are trying to take a lot of rights away from us. host: before you go, talk about what you mean and they're trying to take our rights away from us. we talking about women specifically? caller: yes i am. i didn't hear that because i have my -- i am muted. who is trying to take rights away from women these days he echo -- these days? i feel there are a lot of local governments or state governments that are trying to change the laws to take away a lot of the rights that we fought you -- hard for. host: you talked about your mother working during world war ii. did she want to go back to work after she had gone for a few years during the war? caller: actually she did go back to work them. but she went back as a temporary. she never had a regular job. she was an accountant so she could always find work. host: thank you for calling in for minnesota this morning. we are talking to our female viewers about how your opportunities compared to those of your mother. our phone lines are split up regionally in the eastern and central and mountain and pacific time zones. you will keep the lines open for the next half hour or so to talk to our female viewers about the subject. one other bit of recent polling data, this from the market out ofh firm it so maury asks -- it if you want to know the numbers specifically on people who , it wasd to the data .ust 29% in the united states this graph breaking it down. the united states ahead of france, spain, and belgium on that list. how are your opportunities? caller: hello there. now.88 years old when i was a mother it was a full-time job to take care of the kids, to cook, to clean. when the kids came home. i was a very liberated woman. my friends and i would get together every other day or so and play mah-jongg and rink line. how do you like that he echo -- like that? talk about the challenges the next generation faces. caller: i blame what is going on with the lynnwood -- what is the women's liberation. they asked me what i do. i think women are forced to go to work and now they can't handle it. you cannot do it all. don't believe in daycare. i believe in taking care of your children. host: thank you for calling in. a tweet -- we will be talking about the subject with our viewers this morning. several members of congress day holidayother's here in the united states. here is nancy pelosi on friday offering her mother's day wish for women. [video clip] >> when women succeed americans succeed. want equal pay for equal work, raising the minimum wage, paid sick feeling -- paid sick leave us, affordable quality childcare. we certainly want flowers and .oses and mom not having to do the dishes. we also want to unleash the power of women. they want to be entrepreneurial and start their own business and create jobs. they want to be able to do so in a way that has a proper balance between family and work. one other story from the pittsburgh post-gazette on those that minority leader nancy pelosi brought up on friday. women pitching issues to lawmakers. one of the front page stories there. we are talking about how your opportunities compared to those of your mother. mary is in illinois this morning. thank you for calling in. caller: i have mixed feelings. husband did not make enough money and i had to go to work. until my children got older enough to take care of themselves. i had a kind lady that always took them to school for me because she didn't work. i believe that unless it is absolutely necessary a mother should stay home with their children until their children are old enough to take care of themselves and then go to work. these children need their mother when they leave, they need them and i knowome home, that in this day and age now a lot of mothers have to work. work to pay the bills. heart for these little kids that are drugged out in the cold in the winter. i wish all mothers could stay home and take care of their children until they are old enough to get themselves ready. that is just how i feel about it. we played you a piece from house minority leader nancy pelosi. here is a video tribute to that speaker -- video treatment that speaker house -- speaker of the house john boehner put up this week. [video clip] >> i had 11 brothers and sisters. it wasn't easy for my mother. >> never a dull moment. with all that pressure that she had, she stayed awful cool. thing i can close my eyes and vividly see were diapers. there were always diapers. the basement was full of diapers. >> if my mother got angry at us over something she wasn't at all about taking the spark plug wires out of the spark plug. devious. host: the new york times has a piece on the women of city hall, noting that women hold half of the highest ranking in city hall and new york. it notes that the longtime fraternity of government empowering -- helping him build the agenda. there is a picture of the women of city hall as noted by today's new york times. that's go to deborah waiting in buffalo, new york. my great great grandmother worked. she used to break the bread with the -- break the bread on the island she came from. my great-grandmother immigrated to the united states and she worked when she came here. her daughter worked to create a my mother worked through high school to help support her family and then she enlisted in one my father died and my mother got social security she got a degree in teaching she didn't work because she had three children to look after. women have always worked. especially black women. i know women now who have to work because they have to feed their children. women have always worked. things are better for women. the point is can you take advantage of them? that's all i have to say. host: are you a mother? caller: i never had children. host: what you see are the opportunities for the next generation? i think women will advance and women will do better. that.s like host, on our twitter page -- we want to keep you updated on some of the stories from around the country. here is from "the hill" newspaper coming up yesterday. we will talk about that and our 8:00 hour into our 9:00 hour. some of those controversial referendums taking place in eastern ukraine today. we will also talk about that with thetoday's show moscow correspondent of "the new york times" to get an update on how that effort is going. one story that is already making -- headlinesning this morning -- ed donovan confirmed that parlor agents were pulled off of their white house today to check on the safety of the directors assistance in 2011. the spokesman disputed accounts that moment operations lasted for months -- that new story on the secret service coming out in today's "washington post." you how your opportunities compared to your mother. let's go to kathy waiting in new hampshire. go ahead. caller: my opportunities have been incredibly more than what my mother had. was point to an immigrant family back in depression times. pushed that i get an education that she was not able to get herself. i was able to get a professional degree and i have raised two children. the big difference is she really encouraged education and i have those opportunities. there were a lot of schools toes of attend and financial aid. i think they were unimaginable for my mom back when she was younger. host: we will go to kathleen in north carolina. i am kind of like the woman that came before me. my grandmother's mother was a 1900s. back in the early my mother was a secretary. they all had children. we did not have all the things they had to help us. my mom was ringing her closed through a ringer -- her clothes through a ringer. they worked long hours but they made it. even have the cushions we have now in society. they lost their job or got sick the rest of the family had to pitch in and loan them the money or help us get through. host: how do you feel about that cushion? is it too big? caller: i don't think it should be bigger. when you have a big cushion like that it is easier to fall. cushionif you have less you have to pick yourself up by your bootstraps and keep going. from our twitter page -- you can follow the conversation at c-span wj. let's go to tina in millwall key, wisconsin. thank you for calling in. so excited, this is the first time i have gotten on c-span. i grew up in the jim crow south. my mother was phenomenal. she had four children. my mother was able to work hard. she educated two of us, two of us were college graduates. i am really excited about the opportunity to express my feelings about my mother, who is passed away. you getu said she hoped an education, what was her education level? caller: my mother was in eighth grade graduate. she spent a lot of time working with us. post comment you think we overcame most of those obstacles at this point? i know because i had such a strong mother dedicated to educating her children, i was able to have a great experience. i was able to travel abroad. do a lot of things i have not been able to do had it not been for my mother and her dedication to my -- dedication to her children. should be much more encouragement and support from others. host: do you mean on a federal level? proponent ofa big early childhood education. i think the federal government should do more to educate younger children. there are a lot of single woman that needs support in the children in particular need to be educated. i am a big component of that. educate them while they are young. host: we have time for a few more calls. ofant to update you on some the highlights coming up on today's sunday shows. congressman trey gowdy of south carolina was picked to lead that smitty on benghazi this week. mike rogers, congressman mike rogers, the chairman of the select intelligence committee will be appearing on abc's this week. chuck hagel will be appearing along with marco rubio. on today's meet -- on today's newsmakers we welcome congressman harold rogers from kentucky. here is a bit of a clip of that , talking about whether earmarks may return to spending bills. [video clip] now a ban on your marks on the house side. as long as that ban is there i will enforce it on our committee. however there is a lot of merit to the idea that members of congress know their districts better than a bureaucrat in the white house and that we ought to have the u.s. congress with the power of the that areedy problems not being taken care of by the regular process. read -- simplyly redirects money that bureaucrats would have spent with no increase in money. it makes no sense? -- makes no sense. i think it should have to originate only in the subcommittees and not in her drop along the way. tobe it should be limited money directed to units of local government or state government. host: harold rogers appearing on our newsmakers program today after "washington journal here come -- journal." you can also find it at c-span.org. callse some time to take from our female viewers. we are asking how your opportunities compared to those of your mother. .e go to washington good morning. caller: hello. i just wanted to say that i for femaleseasier today. growing up i barely saw my mom. my mom worked three different jobs. females have we as -- i'mhe opportunity to sorry, we take the opportunities we are given for granted. i am in the military. benefits.otted we get the opportunities to go. i think a lot of young females make excuses. there was no time for excuses growing up. there were four of us. she had to go out and make a living. now everything is handed to us. i think it is easier now. but it is harder because no one is taking it -- it is harder because everyone is taking advantage of opportunities. host: i know the pentagon is go about putting women on the front lines in combat situations in the military. your thoughts on that? caller: i think all military opportunities should be equal. as long as we are able to go overseas and fight with these men that we are supposed to call our battle buddies, as long as we are able to do that we should be able to go out and do exactly what they are doing. i am all for fighting on the frontlines. it might seem a little weird because a female may say i'm not going to do that, i'm not going to sit for x amount of hours. we should be able to do whatever it is they do without any kind of discrimination. go to tammy waiting in montgomery, pennsylvania. good morning. how do your opportunities compared to those of your mother? caller: i opportunities are more limited demo mothers. my mother graduated high school andwent to washington dc work for six to nine months there. the war ended and she came back to montgomery. we had a thriving community. montgomeryat the males for 34 years until it closed down. seen things get better. right now she has a disease. she went back to work part-time after she retired. nowadays when you graduate you --her have to go to school go to college or else you have to try to find work. trying to find work and my mother's generation was a lot easier. -- a lot easier if you didn't have a college education. nowadays you cannot do that. host: do you think the opportunities are only going to get slimmer? do you think there is less opportunity now? do you think there is for the competition, as you are describing it? caller: i think it is going to be worse. host: why is that? an --: if you don't have have a college education the only workaround here is going to mcdonald's, usually. a fast food laser something like that. -- fast food place or something like that. going to college is expensive. expensive.ining is and it is very hard to get a. -- get aid. host: one other story i want to note for you this morning, this from "the washington post" -- here's a bit from the first lady's address. [video clip] oni am michelle obama and this mother's day weekend i want to take a moment to honor all of the mothers out there and wish you a happy mother's day. i also want to speak to about an issue of great significance to me as first lady and more importantly as the mother of two young daughters. like millions of people across the globe, my husband and i are outraged and heartbroken over the kidnapping of more than 200 nigerian girls from their school dormitory in the middle of the night. was unconscionable act committed by a terrorist group determined to keep these girls from getting an education. grown men attempting to snuff out the aspirations of young girls. to know that barack has directed our government to do supportng possible to the nigerian government's efforts to find these girls and bring them home. in these girls barack and i see our own daughters. we see their hopes and trains and we can only imagine the anguish their parents are feeling right now. many of them may have been hesitant to send their off -- send their daughters off to school fearing that harming come their way. but they took that risk because they believe -- they believe in their daughters promise and wanted to give them every opportunity to succeed. the girls knew the full dangers of what they may encounter. recentlyls had been closed due to terrorist threats. these girls still insisted on returning to take their -- they were so determined to move to the next level of their education, so determined to one day build careers of their own and make their families and communities proud. in nigeria wased not an isolated incident. it is a story we see every day as girls around the world risk their lives to pursue their ambitions. combos kidnappings are the subject of bill kristol's editorial in this week's weekly standard. he writes under the headline -- if you want to read more on his editorial, that is in this week's weekly standard. we asked our viewers how your opportunities compared to those of your mother. we will go to any in minnesota. the morning. caller: good morning. i am the last of my parents three children. my father was an educator. my mother, eighth grade. they are both deceased. both my sister and i became educators. i am the first on my family on both sides to receive a phd. i am grateful for the parents i have. i went to school when it was not legal for me to use the public library. my parents pay income tax every year. through it all, to my parents didh and determination we our parents proud. say happy mother's day, we love you and miss you. the last color in this washington journal segment. up next we will talk with matt lewis about -- matt lewis of the daily caller and sabrina of the huffington post. later tom tarantino joins us to discuss the reports of misconduct at the asus -- at v.a. facilities. we will be right back. >> on this mother's day, some clips from our c-span video library. >> the day after christmas he came into the kitchen where i was and said mother, would you mind if i invited a girl to visit for two or three days? i said i would be delighted. i called her mother and asked when he wanted her to come. he said today. they both went to boston to school and they married the day after she was graduated. tipper has turned out, as you can gather, to be the very best campaigner of our lives. >> hank miller said roberta, two planes were shot down and we did not see any objections. we went and decided we were not going to say one word at this dinner. and we did go to dinner. , chief ofme home operations called and said, we are sure that johnny is gone. i was taking care of my daughter's three children and i went out to a country house we had and a steward came flying out. can you believe that the best news i have ever had in my life. it depends on where you are standing how things affect you. >> i was 17 years of age when i -- he had gone as a delicate to boys nation in washington. i'll never forget the expression on his face when he came back and showed me the picture. it will be government that will be his career in some form. i have no idea he would be running for the presidency or anything like that. >> all this baloney with george competing with his father, it is ridiculous. they are devoted to each other and there was never any competition. i think they feel loved and i hope if i have a legacy other that iing the enforcer will have raised a great family along with george. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by sabrina siddiqui and matt lewis of the daily caller. the houses on district work break last week. last week was a busy one on capitol hill, highlighted by that committee on benghazi -- on benghazi. what you want them to answer? >> we need to learn about what actually happened in benghazi. why was the consulate not more secure? why was there no be enforcement or calvary to arrive -- or cavalry to arrive? was there a cover-up? was there an intentional effort by the obama administration to downplay the terrorism aspect heading into the 2012 reelection and to talk about this video creating a spontaneous uprising? they have a lot of work cut out for them and i think they will have their hands full. host: there have been congressional hearings on the subject. have some of those questions been answered by these groups? been countlessve hearings and a number of investigations on both the house and senate in the relevant committees. i think certainly the administration can handle this a lot better than they did. the problem is there hasn't been any smoking gun that has emerged from the investigation they have already conducted. i know a republican has actually said before this panel was announced that this chapter is kind of close, there wouldn't be a research on this. there was nothing more they could have done in that circumstance, there was no standdown order given by hillary clinton. there was no evidence of a cover-up. a couple of republicans said to move on for couple of times. i do think that there are some politics to the timing of this investigation. it has been almost two years and john boehner had a lot of pressure to do it up until now. it doesn't strike me as a coincidence. >> here's a headline from the national journalists week. you wrote about this piece in the national journal. what do you mean by that? part of the reason for having an investigation is not to convict people but to discover facts. we saw just in the past week or actually request which produced e-mails. i think showing the administration was attempting to misrepresent what happened in benghazi for political purposes -- this piece essentially argues a pox on both their houses. republicans are overplaying it for political purposes and their fund raising benghazi. are all all bad, they crooks. my point is assuming everything in the article is true, assuming the white house did intentionally mislead the american public and assuming republicans are overplaying it for political purposes, i would still argue the former is much greater and we should hold the white house to higher standard. i think it is a very big deal. >> we invite our viewers to call in. democrats can call in with questions and comments for sabrina siddiqui. if you are outside the u.s., it is -- we will also be checking our twitter feeds and you can also e-mail us. sabrina siddiqui, tell us about the congressman who has been picked ahead for this select committee. what does he bring to this investigation? guest: he has a background as a former prosecutor. risings to be a younger star. this is going to elevate him to a much higher profile and introduce him to a more national audience. he is from south carolina. he has fought certain high-profile cases in the past. as mostuck me interesting about him is he is come out and promised that he is going to be very independent in this investigation. him this is not about politics but rather about answering some of the questions that matt said republicans have not adequately answered. we were talking about fund raising. i think that is maybe an initial moment where he may be had not said what he hoped the party would say. it puts him on the defensive position where they are being asked why their lead investigator as saying don't fund raise off of benghazi. host: e-mails going out? guest: the committee was tasked with collecting the publicans to the house. they have sent several fundraising e-mails. we asked how you justify fundraising off of this, especially when trey gowdy is saying not to do it. us this is about holding the democrats and administration accountable. they believe their voters should be aware of the democrats that voted against establishing the select committee and those democrats don't want americans to learn the truth about what happened in september 11, 2012. then there are a couple of outside groups that are fundraising. there is an actual coordination with members of congress. john boehner and eric cantor was asked whether there should be fund raising. they didn't say there shouldn't be. i think they are of the opinion it is fair game. host: atle bit -- little bit from that press conference. we will come back and get that lewis's thoughts on them. [video clip] >> our focus is on getting the answers to those families who lost loved ones. >> their fundraising off of it. is getting the truth for these four families and for the american people. >> why's that happening? >> our focus is on getting the truth and the american people and these four families. youf that is the case, will -- to make it even more clear that it is not going to be a circus or political? democrats will get shut out and it will be political. >> i had a conversation with the minority leader yesterday. we made it clear this is a serious investigation and we wanted to work together to get to the truth. the 75 split is eminently flip -- imminently fair. >> from their perspective it is not so much about the ratio but the power the democrats have. abouthad a conversation how the committee will operate. there are further conversations continuing on that issue. heatedatt lewis getting questions about fund raising and how the committee will operate. guest: i think it is an effort by democrats to muddy the waters and nullify whatever republicans find. now politicizing this very serious thing. it has also been almost two years. , think it is very bad optics very bad politics for republicans -- for there to be an appearance that they are politicizing. some point these things are no longer tragedies that you are exploiting, like a shooting that just happened and your kind passed legislation five minutes later. the parties actually take a principled stand. look at the iraq war. president obama won the democratic nomination arguably because he opposed that war. you could say he was politicizing it he had a principled stance. he opposed iraq and thought it was a quagmire and does not want that to happen again. of course he is going to fund raise off that. is a principled stand. we are getting that now with benghazi. it is not what you jumping on an issue that happened recently. this is part of our political landscape. it is part of where the parties are coming down. if republicans say we think this is important that the public knows what happened, that is a campaign. you need resources to run a campaign. i don't think there is a problem with this. an appearance of a conflict of interest. for a republican committee to do it, it is probably bad politics. the: here's a headline from newspaper. what are democratic members of congress saying to you as they consider whether to participate or not? guest: there are strong feelings on both sides. one idea that there should be some representation on this committee. then we won't have any control over the subpoenas or how witnesses are questioned or what information is then released to the public. there is a larger coalition of democrats who say we should boycott this altogether. they are taking a principled stand that there are questions , it ised to be answered been two years and this is been investigated time and time again by republicans. they keep bringing it back up for political purposes. we should not play a part of that game. that contention is going to went out. nancy pelosi is not believe that this is anything more than politics. they are most likely inclined to boycott. they will be all in or all out. there won't be in in between. they are leaning toward staying out of it. there is a concern that there might be a lot of miss repton -- misrepresentation of what comes out. one thing we learned about benghazi, if you work for the government and get into a situation you can't depend on obama for help. we will read through tweets and e-mails. canton, north carolina. is hillaryproblem clinton. he -- she said we are going after american citizens in this country exercising his first amendment rights. offends that video muslims. a offends me when they fly plane into our buildings and watch our flag being stomped. the hell out of me. host: how are mirrors of congress keeping those feelings in check? guest: it is an issue that people are very passionate about. we did lose for american lives. the investigations say that this could have been prevented. that was the biggest lesson that came out of it. what could they have done to have prevented this attack from occurring? or should of been more security than there was. some requests had been denied. they also turned down some offers that were made in the months before to provide more protection. it is in hindsight difficult to evaluating how you could have gone about something differently. i think they will think about the security around the globe about where you have any kind of diplomatic mission or ambassadors in place. what kind of warning signs might there be. that is where the focus is. people are trying their best to focus more on the lessons learned. the most passionate person has been darrell issa. he is not on the committee. i think that was a message from republicans that he is seen as a more partisan voice. deliberately out when it comes to investigating this. guest: let me get back to the question about hillary clinton. of hilleryt victim is ambassador rice. ambassador rice went on and did the full ginsburg. she did five sunday shows. she talked about this video. it struck me at the time as lacking believability. this was the anniversary of 9/11. we might have expected an attack. you might have wanted security to be heightened around the anniversary of 9/11. they were pushing the notion that it was a spontaneous attack brought about by a video. it seemed unbelievable at the time. it seems less likely. victims was ambassador rice. twitter, whent on e-mails are held back how can you know the facts? when?id hillary know and back to the phones in montana. caller: good morning. because i feel like everybody is dancing around the issue. the are talking about political fundraising. they are talking about hillary. why is it that we have not brought anybody in for prosecution. we know who they are. we have the videos on it. we are talking about a murdered ambassador. that is serious and all i hear is political garbage going want towhy would nobody continue with this investigation when we have an official that is murdered? that.ld be talking about that would be on every news program. this is the same question on twitter. by all of the investigations, what solutions have they come up with that it doesn't happen again? where are we on that front westmark --? guest: there is still an investigation into whether there is a cover-up. the focus has been that the administration is protecting itself and president obama ahead of israel action. aey would like to find smoking gun that the administration was selecting talking points and they were not being honest with the american people. that is one of the most striking things about benghazi. congress,a member of the most obvious question would be what are we going to do about it now and why have we not held anyone accountable for it westmark --? that is what is the most scary if you are in the american public. to find theone is people who did this and hold them accountable. then reevaluate security in the future. host: henry is in oak ridge, tennessee. caller: my question and problem with the situation, i go all the way back to beirut. to investigatent beirut. they did not want to investigate 9/11. there is nothing there. this is a witchhunt. the republicans want the white house. guest: there was a columnist who brought up beirut last week. interestingt is that liberals are stretching 30 years back to find an example of republicans doing something similar to benghazi in order to justify what happened in benghazi. there is some argument that the to then that he made led rise of bin laden. reagan hadue that his hands full winning the cold war. it is a stretch to look back 30 years and try to find an example of republicans mishandling something in terms of foreign policy or military use to justify the tragedy of benghazi. national democratic committee highlighted this week a video this week. obamacare. obama talked up the success of getting americans to enroll in insurance plans under the affordable care act. 8 million americans have signed up for insurance. and we have to get what happened to the bottom of what happened in benghazi. this demand your impeachment. it looks like nothing more than a partisan stunt. debate is at a stalemate after republicans blocked the paycheck fairness act. the senate filibustered and blocked an increase in the minimum wage. host: the issues brought up in that ad, equal pay laws and immigration and minimum wage. how much are democrats going to talk about these issues in the face of a new benghazi -- committee? guest: it will talk about all of these issues. harry reid needs to talk about minimum wage. nancy pelosi needs to do the same. obama has been going across the country with some of these messages in recent months. that is the strategy they outlined to be competitive in 2014. they're not going to take back the house, but the senate remains competitive. this ideafocused on of income inequality. tohink they will continue emphasize the buying politics in the benghazi thing. 90% of people have paid their first premiums and obamacare. republicans have acknowledged that obamacare for now is running out of steam and they need to refocus their message elsewhere. democrats need to keep pushing the issues that they promised to deliver on to the american people. obama wins and democrats when the talk about things like income inequality and the war on women and lay class warfare. that is what obama was able to do in 2012. democrats, 2013 was full of issues like edward snowden and the irs scandal. the obamacare rollout was disastrous. a badas been about economy and obamacare and benghazi. most wars are won before they are five. who can pick the terrain will win. if the terrain is the war on women and income inequality, democrats do better if it is about something else. great 2012. he's not been a great job of staying on message. host: we are being joined by .att lewis and sabrina siddiqui we are taking your calls and comments. we have about another half an hour or so. we are talking about the 2014 election. let's go to mike waiting in connecticut on the line for independence. i am independent. i don't have a dog in this fight. the onlyformation, thing that i can say is we have not changed the circumstance that led to as having a murdered ambassador and republicans will not finance security through the state department. as we speak, every single diplomat that we have on this planet is in danger because republicans will not finance security to the state department to protect our diplomats. you know this'll be spun into the ground. if we lose one diplomat while they do this ridiculous , the republican party could not get elected dog catcher. that is harsh stuff on mother's day. my mom is watching. he makes an interesting argument about funding. i think that is an argument that democrats could score more points on if you want to play politics. are we funding enough security? that is a legitimate question as far as i am concerned. things,e a couple of barack obama did kill osama bin laden. done. it was a huge deal. house at a white correspondents dinner the night before while navy seals were about to go in. we don't know what precautions are being taken. i hope there are things that we do not know that would protect our diplomats abroad. we should troubling no. from actuallyside focusing on better security and making sure that this never happens again, it is legitimate to talk about the politics of this. it is important that the public knows the truth. it is not academic whether or not that takes place. it is legitimate for there to be an investigation about whether or not the administration intentionally misled the american public for political purposes. that is a big deal if it happened. it may not be as important as making sure that we secure our consulate and our embassies. it is a big deal. host: let's go to dennis in south dakota. caller: i just want to add to the previous caller. in 2011, the republicans voted $128 million.y by in 2012 they voted to cut the security again by $331 million. i would like to hear matt's comments. these colors are doing a better job than harry reid a nancy pelosi. those are legitimate points. i suspect that it is more complex than that. thanis a better argument most democrats are putting forward. host: john is in maryland. good morning. caller: this thing is 20 months ago. just because there is a midterm election coming up. issues the most prominent the republicans could hammer on. fundraising. the reason this happened when it because it was for political reasons. it was because obama needed to look like he was strong and his foreign-policy. this went counter to that. the embassy should not have been here. it had nothing to do with funds for security. we are spending trillions of dollars. we have $18 trillion in debt. for extrasador asked help and they did not have americans defending him. they should not have been there. hillary's doing. we had two presidents involved. that is why people should wake dutyhis was dereliction of to save their own rear ends. ahead, sabrina , what did we learn so far in these early primaries that of artie taken place? guest: they are fascinating. a lot of the narrative leading gop civil war and establishment canada it's our sending out a tea party challenger and being forced to take positions of -- to the right of where they want to be. clearlyhas said very that primary season it needed to be shorter and the did not want to be dismantled by his own party. in north carolina, this was like a primary that never was. the establishment candidate won handily over the tea party candidate. those were the two names at the top. i do think that the tea parties influence appears to be diminishing. at least election. in congress it is very much there. polling that they become less popular with the republican party. this will help them a great deal in 2016. they cannot have this distraction where a candidate is forced so far to the right that it becomes difficult to move back to center an appeal in a general election. an l.a. times story talked about the north carolina election. caller: he is a conservative and establishment. those two things are not mooch really -- mutually exclusive. i think conservatives should see this as optimistic. as the tea party has matured and there is more parity, your ending up with is better candidates. i think what happened in 2010 was after the tea party thing happened you had these egregiously liberal republicans wound up becoming democrats. you had great candidates like marco rubio who are able to oust them and when. republicans and conservatives overreach and nominated people who were not ready for prime time. the pendulum has swung back and we are nominating good conservatives by and large. and are more sophisticated more electable in a general election. host: is there a primary coming up that worries you in terms of this split between tea party and establishment? guest: they should be optimistic. we have nebraska coming up on tuesday. that a selfhance funder will sneak in. that might be a missed opportunity for conservatives. it looks like in places like georgia, conservatives are pushing aside congressman brown who is conservative but maybe not the best face. who knows how these things shake out. they're as a reason why they have a collection's. it seems like the conservative movement and tea party is gotten more pragmatic. host: ron is on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i listen to your show all the time. i just see a bunch of dancing around the issues that affect the american people. one is the health care law. it has been passed. a guy that is making six dollars an hour is getting a raise. he can be pulled onto the government where they force you to go onto welfare to pay for the insurance. the illegal aliens continue to get free medical at our cost. there has been no effort to remove the corruption and abuse where hospitals compete against each other. you guys talk about stuff while saddle our children with debt. we will take on the subject of the affordable care act. you were talking earlier about some of the numbers. talk about some of the challenges that still face the affordable care act. guest: it is still going to be a long road. the administration has benefited from the fact that the enrollment surged later on after the rollout. they can now say we have 8 million people signed up for private plans and another 4 million in the medicaid expansion. the number will be significant. we have learned that a lot. the premiums are being paid. it is staggered in terms of when people have to pay them. people will not pay at the same time because they enrolled at different times. there is still opposition to some of these. the hobby lobby supreme court case is going to affect this. i do like to make predictions with the supreme court, early indication is the court is leaning against the birth control mandate. to theuld be a huge blow politics around the law. if one of the central tenets loses in court, that is going to give republicans a chance to come back in and refocus their message around obamacare and where they believe it is not working and the parts that think the american people don't want. i -- guest: i think sabrina is right. it does seem like there is a movement toward some sort of exception for people of faith. we will see how it works out. i do think the issue of religious liberty is becoming a very important issue. religious liberty is now essentially under attack. if you're a christian or person of faith who has strong objections to something, can you opt out? not the issue of our time, i think depending on how the court decides, it is going to have a big effect going forward. good morning. i appreciate you all being here early this morning. when he made the comment about people reaching back 30 years to give a comparison of bay route to the situation of benghazi i would like to share with matt that my high school best friend that i had known since eighth grade, a graduate of university of illinois was killed in bay route. i'm also an 11-year veteran. i also guard it had united states embassy successfully. so i'm sorry that some of us have a few more years on you than others it doesn't mean that my information is any more pertinent but i would like to address benghazi from a contemporary stand poipt and a mathematics and logistics and marine corps stand point. in combat when you want to quote the art of war, whatever that was. i'm not calling to jump on matt but what i'm trying to say is in combat when you take on a combatant you want to attack at least a two to one ratio or three to one ratio. in benghazi they numbered nywhere from 150 armed people. i would share with the listeners was not technically an embassy or a registered consulate. it may have had a temporary provisional status with the libyan government which was shaky to begin with and it also had a c.i.a. complex in the compound. so it had a anybody luss status to begin with. is this jumping back to the mathematics and logistics. the u.s. marines have a group called the fast team. the fast team is designed specifically i was a part of the foundation of fast team from a counter intelligence and marine corps embassy background and experience, in its inception and they were immediately notified by panetta from what i've read. so the fast team would come from where let me ask you where is it coming from? guest: i nowhere there were some folks in italy. you tell me. host: you seem to know about the topic. let me ask you about the select committee. do you think there's more to find out here that already hasn't been found out from the pentagon reports and some of the congressional investigation that is have already happened? caller: it doesn't appear to me. it doesn't appear that will be. and in fact if there is then that will be the case. the point i want to make about the time distance and travel, benghazi to spain where my fast team company would have come from is about 110 miles. you can find a ch 53 you could fly in a c 130. you'll need about 600 marines to attack that side. and to load up that many people in that many erik is going to take an hour to get everybody in there. then you fly across the mediterranean. that's going to take at least four hours. host: we've got a bunch of people waiting to talk as well but i appreciate your expertise on the subject. let's go to ron waiting in newport beach, california on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. what i want to talk about here is three things. the first thing is that the republicans are making a slight error here. they're looking like a kangaroo court when they go with a 7-5 split. there should be some sense of fairness. point number two is matt you've ot to do more research about fat with a. because simon will tell you what a fat fat wave is. -- fatwa. hese are muleas who make decisions about what is nasty and affect it is muslim community. seven countries are being attacked with fatwa's about this so-called ambiguous movie about mohammed. so that's number two. number three is come on you guys, goudy should be after the veterans department for taking care of our veterans the last 20 years inappropriately rather than spending all their time. i mean, darrell issa spent how long making -- 20 minutes of attacking on benghazi and didn't bring up anything about the torture of the embassy personnel that were there? host: matt, the last two callers wanting to talk to you personally. caller: where to begin. look, i think that let's go to the last caller. and by the way, let me compliment you smart callers. we can agree with that. partisan but smart. so congrats on the good listenership. you know, during watergate there were more important arguably things happening in the world other than whether or not there was a burglary at the watergate hotel or whatever. during iran contra we were trying to win the cold war. arguably more important things than threatening to impeach ronald reagan. yet we go through these exercises and you can call them phony but i think it is important for the american people to be able to trust the president, the administration shooting straight with them. and as president obama's said we can walk and chew gum at the same time. we ought to be concerned about the v.a. but that doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to the possibility that we can do something better to protect our ambassadors in the future when they're under attack or that we ought to investigate whether or not the administration intentionally misled the american people telling them this was a spontaneous thing happening because of the video when in fact it appears not to have been so. host: indnts line. caller: you don't have to go back 30 years to find where for america obama did not call a select committee. he forgave the live weapons of mass destruction to kill 4,000 americans. the tea party ever since then constantly for six years have been hounding this ppt in front of the world embarrassing the america to make him appear weak. these republicans have taken good christian people in the south and with all these political things made them think that we're attacking religion. we are not. we are on both sides of this. we need democrats and we need more people in the center who care about this country and not taking religious people and take fake issues and run them down and make them seem unchristian. you are the people that are unchristian and un-american. you've been doing this since way back in 12979. host: david from arkansas. we've been talking about some of the other issues going on outside of benghazi. other things happening on capitol hill this week. the senate was possibly scheduled to have a vote on the keystone exl pipeline and that vote ended up not happening. what does that vote mean going forward for some of the members of congress who are in tough election battles? guest: it depends on who you ask. arguing over this energy efficiency bill crafted by senator jean shaheen and rob portman is a very -- a rare bill that has broad bipartisan support. i have in recent years not seen harry reid and mitch mcconnell often if at all go to the floor to repeatedly praise the same bill. it would create 190,000 jobs as well as save americans up to $6 billion in energy bills by 2030 is the projection that's come out. the issue is that vulnerable democrats up to 11 of them actually wanted to join republicans and vote on the approval of the keystone pipeline and harry reid did make an offer that we can do that once we pass the energy efficiency bill. mitch mcconnell rejected that offer. he said he wants to vote on keystone as an amendment along with a couple other energy amendments that are reflective of republicans energy priorities and that's where there is now a standstill and republicans are poised to filibuster this bill tomorrow and monday. but i think that it is concerning for the democrats to be able to vote on keystone and go back if you're mary land rue or mark prior or mark begich and jean shaheen -- not jean shaheen. kay hagan in north carolina. they wanted to go to enforce their approval of keystone they can go back and say they fought. but i think they're going to turn around and say it's mitch mcconnell would have allowed a vote because there was a problem off and on to vote on it next week. host: a couple headlines from different outlets on who is to blame here on the keystone vote. obstruction is the headline rom town hall. your thoughts on the keystone vote. guest: number one, maybe i'm -- my opinion is that president obama could have unilaterally acted on this. so by not doing so for years now he has essentially put democrats especially mary land rue in a tough bind where now it's not happening, it's hard for her to argue that her tenure and her way as a u.s. senator will help increase american energy or exploration because clearly it's not happening here. i think this is a very symbolic issue. i think the symbolism is much more important. i don't think that keystone is going to provide a ton of jobs for americans but i think what it is is that environmentalists view this as an example of us remaining dependent on fossil fuels. i think they were hoping that we would run out of dinosaur bones and have to turn to alternative fuels. and now with fracking, with oil sands, with other sort of ways of doing exploration, it seems like this is an attempt to essentially move beyond the use of fossil fuels. the problem is that canada will find a way to get this to market. and if we don't build the pipeline then what they will do is ship it on rail. which will actually be very devastating environmentally. and so it's really this has become a political football on both sides. it's not really about the key stone exl. it's about a much -- it's a surrogate battle over a much larger war about whether or not we're going to stay on fossil fuels. host: just a few minutes left with matt lewis and sabrina of the huffington post. we'll get in a few callers. from farmington, nume. good morning. kiveraget good morning c span. just to back up a minute on the keystone pipeline. the reason the president isn't letting it be built is because of nothing else than his environmentalist base. the benghazi thing which is an outrage thing over there, the secretary of state and the president of the united states are responsible for the security not the republican house or not the house of representatives. they don't design it. the president does. the president did absolutely nothing to help those people over there. the president as far as i can tell i would an hour or so after it started had to get to a fund raiser in las vegas and he went to bed and didn't check all night on what was going on until he got up the next morning and found out they were all dead. those two navy seals that were over there it wasn't 100 something people it was like 400 attackers on that embassy. those navy seals held them off for 7-1/2 hours over there. they were asking and asking and asking for help and they got absolutely zero from hillary clinton and the president of the united states. who are responsible for their safety. those guys held -- they killed like 40 to 60 attackers while they were being held off. host: can i ask, what questions do you want this select committee to get to if you had one or two questions that you would want them to ask? caller: i want them to get the president to admit exactly where he was while that whole thing was going on. because where was he? he was in bed sleeping. they didn't have photographs there like they did when they were nailing bin laden over there and he could get a lot of publicity out of it. he has zero respect for our military. it's 7-1/2 hours. they didn't have a plane in the air at the end of that 7-1/2 hours when those guys got killed. host: all right. matt writing furiously during that segment. your response. guest: well, look, first of all again just to reiterate the purpose of an investigation is not to convict but to discover facts. we just don't know. the fact that there was an email that just surfaced because of a freedom of information act implies there is probably more information being withheld. i think the fact that the obama administration has engaged in obfuse caution has not been forth coming has sparked conspiracy theories and has sort of led to what some people call a witch hunt. i think you can blame the obama administration at least partly for not being forth coming. we don't know where president obama was when the benghazi attack happened. they don't want to talk about it. so then people speculated. it sort of feeds into a paranoia. maybe it's completely innocent but who knows. they won't say. and the caller is right. it was a 7-hour firefight. so the notion that we couldn't or shouldn't have tried to get somebody there to help protect american lives again i want to see an investigation but it is troubling to just sort of leave people twisting in the wind when we could have helped them. host: i'll give you the last 30 seconds or so that we have here. guest: i'll bring it back to earlier in the show with respect to why they didn't send any enforcement to protect these people. buck mckeon i'm going to bring him up again it's rare that a republican is going to stand up and they did investigate this matter for him to have said that there simply weren't the appropriate personnel in place and there was nothing more they could have done even in the course of the 7-1/2 hours. that just raises questions again for the future when you do have a diplomatic mission and it is anybody luss what they were doing there in the first place. guest: and it is on 9/11. guest: then maybe you have that in place beforehand to try to circumvent another future attack. but it does by all means according to republicans in congress appear that for this particular attack there was actually nothing more that could have been done to actually prevent those four americans from being killed unless it was heeding to warning before the attack actually transpired. host: you can follow sabrina on . itter and matt lewis thank you both for being with us today. guest: thank you. ost: up next, tom taryn teeno, iraq and afghanistan veterans joins us. later we'll talk about the latest on situation in ukraine as pro russian separatists hold a referendum today in some eastern parts of that country. we'll be right back. >> a look at the relationship between 1600 pennsylvania avenue and wall street. tonight at 9:00. part of book tv on c-span 2. and on line our book club election is it calls you back. "washington journal" continues. >> we return now to those reports of inadequate treatment and coverups at some veterans ffairs facilities. tom, you met with v.a. secretary eric shin secy on friday morning. what did he have to say about some of these reports? >> he brought in representatives from all the major vets and organizations. he was -- well, he is taking this very seriously p as he should. we had a very positive conversation where he talked about what are the measures that the v.a. is going to do next. they're going to audit the appointment systems of all 1700 points of care. that should be done in a few weeks. they're going to launch another investigation in fort collins in the allegations coming out of shyian. and he talked about how the inspector general is going to do a very thorough report of the allegations coming out of phoenix. so it was a positive conversation. what we need is the secretary to be doing that a lot more and we need the secretary to be doing that in public. it's one thing to reassure me but i'm a professional in the veterans affairs community. he needs to reassure those vets out there who need care and want to go to the v.a. and he said that his primary concern was that there are vets out there that want care that need care that aren't going to get it because they don't have faith in the v.a. and that's our primary concern too. the key to that is getting him out in front. but there are some groups who ant him out of that job. where does the iraq-afghanistan veterans of america come down on whether eric shin seci should stay in that drop? >> that's a pretty drastic move so we are looking at this very carefully. we are polling our members we are talking to our members via social media, calls and email. this used to be a deliberate decision because removing the secretary might be a solution but we have to make sure that not only is this something that the veterans community wants but it is also something that they need. we have to make sure that we are solving the core problem and not just calling for heads. and so this is going to be a very deliberate decision that we're going to go through. we're not going to make this hastefully. i think we have to do is focus on the men and women who are out there that need care and are afraid to get it because of their losing faith in the v.a. system. >> host: are there any results of that polling that you can share with us? guest: i actually haven't seen it yet. host: eric shin seci set to testify this week in the senate committee on veterans affairs. bernie sanders has also been very vocal on these issues. what are the questions that you're expecting him to face besides obviously the phoenix and colorado reports that we've seen? guest: well, what i expect is him first of all to ask what happened. what we really do need is a full accounting of what happened not just in phoenix but also at fort collins and san antonio and austin. and not simply about what is happening in these individual hospitals but is this something that is pervasive throughout the entire v.a. network of care? and that is really the question we have to answer right now. because if that is true, then we have a much larger problem than just waiting a little extra time to get an appointment. then we have v.a. employees, leaders at v.a. hospitals actively deceiving their patients and the american people and that is a very serious problem. >> host: if you want to join in on this conversation with tom taryn teeno of the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america ur phone lines are open. some mixed reaction on capitol hill for eric shin seci the secretary of the v.a. senator jerry moran a tweet from earlier this last week. guest: this is a very complicated scenario. the v.a. when the secretary took over was working on systems that were obsolete before you or i were even born. it was a paper based process basically still living in this post world war ii environment. and they have done a tremendous amount of work to modernize. but if you have a car that's stuck in a ditch and you pull it halfway out you still don't have a running car. your car is still in the ditch. it's going to take a long time and a long process before we get to a place where we're adequately caring for the men and women that have served our country. and to be fair, the v.a. does do a lot of great things. they provide home loans that program is amazing, the give bill has served over a million student veterans. but it doesn't excuse the fact that we still have around 300,000 veterans that are waiting too long for their disability claims and that wait times at hospitals are still too long. and this isn't a new problem. the v.a. actually got in trouble for doing something similar to this in 2011 where mental health wait times where the v.a. was reporting that it was taking two weeks where it in fact it was taking up to 50 days. they changed that system and the changes is what i think is now exposing some of the problems that we're seeing now where people are allegedly cooking the books. >> that is the one thing that is not about. the v.a. hospital is funded by over $60 billion and we don't fund v.a. medical centers but for this year. we fund them a year in advance. so when congress doesn't pass a budget -- which it hasn't in years -- you don't shut down v.a. hospitals. so when the government shuts down patients can still get care. by and large when they do the quality of that care is still very high. it's actually my primary health care provider. that's where i go because i get fairly good care. but what we are seeing across the country, what we're hearing from members and seeing come out now, is that in certain hospitals the management there is not running as efficiently as it should be and people are waiting too long for care. this may be a problem in places across the nation but not -- i don't think it is across the entire system at all 151 v.a. hospitals. that's the question we have to answer in the next few weeks. >> in this segment we have a special line for veterans. bob is a veteran waiting in oklahoma. go ahead. caller: what the man just said a minute ago about the different care in different a lot ls, it's true that of our hospitals don't have a specialty care. and we have to go to a bigger v.a. facility. to be seen. in the past it was that way real bad. like my local hospital, they didn't offer some care that i had to go to oklahoma city or little rock to receive. but the waiting time has really improved over the last few years at our local hospital. i know one time i had to wait. i waited over two years to get a colonoscopy. and finally, i went to unfortunately pretty close to between two and i went to the fayettville hospital. of course you would be concerned about something like that. and by the week i had my colonoscopy done in fayettville and thank goodness it was ok. it's really improved and i think the general has been a big factor in this. and like you said about the management of our hospitals. because you can tell from manager to manager the administration of it. changes. for both better and worse. >> that actually really well outlines the problems and the improvements of the health care system. we have a saying if you have seen one v.a. hospital you've seen one v.a. hospital. it is a system of 1251 hospitals around 800 different clinics. they are not really organized outside of 21 regions around the country. and in the past if you needed care at the v.a. you had to just go to the v.a. if you didn't live near a v.a. facility it would take you a long time. not just to get there but also to wait. that is changing where v.a. hospitals are cooperating a lot more and the clinics are specializing more, and they're starting to shift to having jouth of network care. so if you got to the v.a. and they don't have what you need you can go to a provider outside of the v.a. network that the v.a. knows and things like your records and treatment protocols can go back and forth. that's something that's changing right now and that is going to vastly improve over the next few years. host: we're talking with the chief policy officer at the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america veterans himself former army captain spent ten years in the service here to answer your questions as a special line for veterans in this segment. and we'll stay with that line for now. joe is waiting in texas. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i really appreciate it. it's me and you and who knows how many people out there. i want to know at any level are the people that administer the veterans hospitals political appointees? guest: no actually. and this is interesting about the v.a. it is the second largest government agency yet it has one of the fewest political appointees. generally senior executive service or senior civil servant employees. and this is where we're seeing problems in the system. it's not generally the people at the top although they are ultimately responsible and they need to make sure that the system is accountable. but what we've been seeing is that information is not getting to headquarters. is that medical center directors are lying about wait times. and they are keeping a veapt set of books. these are the allegations out of phoenix. we have seen this happen before with mental health appointments. but what i think -- what -- and this is what we've seen and what i have seen through doing this for a living, is that there's a lot of problems in the regional offices at the edical centers and those problems are not being filtered up to headquarters and not getting held accountable until someone gets busted like they did in the last few weeks. zue there's actually two problems. the first one is wait times. wait times at hospitals, wait times for appointment, wait times for disability. this is more of a process problem. either time, people, resources. this is something that is solveable in terms of better management and better resources and better times. the problem that is causing so much consternation right now is that people were allegedly willingly lying about the wait times. so if you need an appointment you're supposed to be seen within two weeks. they put you into the system and if you're not seen in two weeks the hospital falls in time. what's allegedly happening is that people were putting when people put the v.a. they get put on a separate book and when that appointment would bnb within that two-week window then they would enter them. that is the deception part. that's a problem with management, leadership, personnel accountability. one of the things we don't have is doctors in the mental health field. so in terms of certain parts of care we are having problems with not having enough doctors. but i think speaking specifically to the thing that is causing so many problems right now is that this is people deceiving their patients and deceiving the v.a. ost: guest: if they can't get care inside that hospital doesn't have eetsdzter capacity or the equipment, they can go outto a private care facility. the v.a. will send you out there. the problem is that those hospitals aren't using that system enough. they're not being judicious enough with their fee-based care. and what will happen in the next year is that each part of the country will have a dedicated network of care kind of like your private health care not really hmo but an out-of-service network so people can go to outside facilities easier and the records make it back. in the past if you went to a facility outside the v.a. it was a crap shoot whether your records would make it back to your primary care physician. this is something that is improving and we should see this change pretty significantly in the next year. let's go to robert on our line or veterans. caller: i'm in the appeel process very unique thing. i had my entire stomach removed because i picked up a bug when . was in asia very unusual case. i never had a stomach problem in my life. when i got back from asia i was assigned to fort macarthur so i hit the dispensery in those days all they had was barium upper give. and everybody knows that that didn't really detect much. most stomach problems were related to stress is what they thought. then in the 0s they found out no it wasn't. 90% were related to this bacteria. they found out if a young guy got this bacteria and had it for decades, which i had, i went through misery most of my adult life. it can turn to cancer. now, i was a microbiologist for 12 years and ironically, the last procedure i set up is detection of that organism. but in those days it was just related to ulcers. now it's discovered that it causes cancer, the same cancer i had. put in a claim to the v.a. and they addressed that claim immediately and denied it immediately. so that's how they do their numbers. guest: it's actually not a unique experience. the broken claim system has been a problem for decades. they finally have a digit yat process, finally fixed some of the rules and finally turning it roonlt but there's not a lot of confidence that if we get rid of the backlog there's not going to be a backlog the year later. and to robert's appeal, the emphasis on getting rid of the backlog of claims, the resources shift fix that has caused the appeals backlog to grow tremendously. this is a problem we're going to be deal with for years. guest: yes and no. congress needs to make sure that they appropriate enough money to actually handle the care at the v.a. they also need to make sure that they are doing enough oversight of the v.a. this is something we've seen a lot in the last years in the house and the senate has been very attentive in making sure that the v.a. is accountable. we need the v.a. to actually give congress the information that they ask for. this is one of the reasons that the secretary was subpoenaed last week. a lot of the information that the congress asked for the v.a. simply hasn't been providing whether they don't have it or in a way that that makes sense. i don't know that. but this is something -- congress has a duty to make sure that the money that they're appropriating is going to the care of the men and women who have served in this country and this is something that they need to keep pressure on v.a. just like we do out in the public need to keep pressure on v.a. to make sure that they're keeping their promises. host: on the issue of secretary shin seci and whether he should eep his job. lso asked about the topic. this was on tuesday. here's what he had to say. >> as the president said last week we take the allegations around the phoenix situation very seriously. that's why he immediately directed the secretary to investigate and the secretary has also invited the independent veterans affairs office of the inspector general to conduct the comprehensive review. we must ensure that our nations veterans get the benefits and services they have deserved and earned. the president remains confident in the secretary's ability to lead the department and to take appropriate action based on the ig's findings. host: and we should note the secretary is going to be on capitol hill live on thursday. you can watch him on c-span that's happening at 10:00 a.m. eastern. he is going to be at that hearing on the veterans health care before the senate veterans taking committee that your calls and questions on this topic. let's go to mike on our line for veterans. mike is in oregon. caller: good morning. happy mother's day. host: yes, sir. go ahead. caller: the reason why i'm calling is because i've been red flagged for three years now and i feel that it's detrimental and my care i'm not getting the proper care that i need. i have to drive over two hours to go to roseberg. i actually live in tooze bay to roseberg which is over two hours. and i don't know what a behavioral group is. maybe you can splan to me how a group of people can say red flag you call you names as far as i'm concerned they should call me a veteran and not a red flag person. i don't like it. i do not want to go to the v.a. if a stilt if i can keep from it. i would like to go to anybody around this area. and i've heard comments about it. how do we get -- how do i go about getting it done? host: tom answering his question what is red flagging? guest: itch no idea what that is. i'm sorry. and like i say, this might be something that's happening just in that local hospital might be a policy around the v.a. i certainly hope not. sort of terfying that they're red flagging people for care. he actually brings up a very good point about access at the v.a. if a stilt. they're calling it pc 3 which each area that the v.a. serves in the country is going to be linked to a health care network something like try west or health net or humana. so that people like him don't have to drive two hours. they can -- you know, they can run to the v.a. and the v.a. says you have a care provider in your hometown that's in the network. you can go to them. the key to making this work is making sure that the v.a. does use it. e veterans population is slinking. what that means is you're going to have a large network of hospitals serving a shrinking population. so we have to get creative in how we make sure that veterans can get the care they deserve in the time they need in a reasonable location so you don't have to drive six hours just to get a blood test. >> are there some specific issues that the iraq and afghanistan veterans are facing specifically? they're going to become larger and larger portion of our veterans community in the years to come. guest: my generations has a really great problem is that we generally are surviving combat at an incredibly high rate. there's a 90% survival rate. this is great news. but what that means is there are a lot of injuries that we are seeing that we've never seen before. this concept of poly trauma where you have a brain injury, a physical -- a physical injury, your body as well as mental health injuries like post traumatic stress all interacting together in ways that we've never seen. and this is something that medical science hasn't really gotten into in terms of caring for all these things at the same time. so this is having huge effects on our generation. right now the biggest problem n the veterans care entirely is suicide. 22 veterans a day die by suicide and this is we are at a point where we have to start aggressively looking at this. not just within the v.a. but within the department of defense and within our local communities. because if we don't we are going to have a crisis on our hands. host: if you want to learn more about tom's group the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america is iava.org. we've got about 15 minutes left with him as we talk about these issues. caller: >> how are you doing? >> listen, bringing up the point about the major backlog in this country. this country has an obsession with wars. if we're good at anything we're good at causing casualties and bringing them home. as far as this secretary of veteran affairs, you've got to give this man all the credit and support he deserves. you would have to be half crazy to jump into a job like that to begin with. and as far as anything other than monetary or whatever, we should take the last administration that was generated on war profit tiering. kellogg brown and root, blackwater, executive outcome. halliburton. where have these people pay for what is going on with these individuals today. host: bringing up the debate over secretary shin seci and whether he should keep his job. one comment i want to play for you speaker of the house john boehner from thursday when asked about the same question and whether the secretary should go. >> i'm not ready to join the chorus of people calling for him to step down. the problems at the v.a. are systemic. it's the backlog. it's the preventable deaths that have occurred within their system. there's a systemic management issue throughout the v.a. that needs to be addressed and i don't believe that just changing some at the top is going to actually get to the solutions that many of us are looking for. we're working on the v.a. accountability bill that would allow the secretary more discretion when it comes to firing managers that aren't getting the job done. host: i want to get your thoughts on the v.a. accountable bill. why does the v.a. secretary need more power to be able to fire folks? is he not able to do that right now? guest: it's difficult. even senior executive service are still government employees. and the speaker makes a good point. the problem people, the people allegedly perpetrating the problems it's not the secretary going in and doing that. these are high level senior executive service employees. it is very difficult to fire a medical center director and in the past the v.a. has either been unable or unwilling. there's a lot of stories where you have senior managers at the v.a. who do something really terrible and instead of getting fired they get moved. so we need to not just give the secretary the power to clean house and clear out the people causing problems but also embolden them and encourage them to do that. because this is one of the things about the secretary that we need to see more of. we need to see him out in front. we need to see him out taking bold action. kind of a lame way to say it but he is the veteran in chief of the united states of america. veterans out there who need care at the v.a. need to know that that system is there for them and it is really his job to be out there in front. and up until a few days ago, he really wasn't doing that. he wasn't seen in public. he needs to continue to be out in front to make sure that veterans know the system is out there and people are being held accountable. host: let's go to our line for independents. caller: good morning. thanks. i'm sure we'll do a big study and look at it and make sure the stuff never happens again. i've been hearing that for a lot of years now. all due respect, i'm a veteran too and we need to look out for these guys. the problem with society is heads don't seem to role. so i'm hoping that we do hold the people accountable, that have clearly shown a dare licks of duty. and far peeyond that. to make them perceive like they're doing their jobs when they're not and people need to speak up more. we understand all of that. but the main thing we need to hold the people accountable. you can look at it may seem off track but it isn't. you've got a commander lee polede whose the head of the cole i happened to be in that port many times. he allowed his ship to blow up. many sailors hurt. we had a clear dare licks of duty but yet he goes around the country now speaking like he's an expert. in fact he's been on c-span. so i've been appalled with that. so we need to hold people accountable. host: can i ask you are you confident that the secretary can do that? caller: what i am confident for is that we need to have patients and find out what really happened. but it shouldn't take forever. it's foo early on that to judge him fully on this. if you have managers at v.a. clinics that are gun decking or falsifying documents and saying our people are getting taken care of and they're not it's pretty hard. that's a big outfit so i do think we need to learn more. host: let's go tour line for veterans. john is waiting in florida. john, good morning. caller: good morning. i've been listening to your program about the v.a. one important thing has not been brought up. every veteran that even qualifies does not receive veteran benefits. basically i don't know how long ago, eight nine years ago the government ran out of money, veterans were divided into eight categories. one is the unfortunate individuals that lost limbs disability, goes down to eight categories. those who the government says well you've got enough money get your own benefits. i only wanted to get my prescriptions from the government. the government says do it on your own. and ironically i'm going to my super market and get my same prescriptions for nothing. so not only the government can get to give the veterans the benefits we were promise. guest: the way the v.a. works is there are eight categories of care ranging from permanent disabled, prisoners of war purple heart all the way to you're perfectly healthy and the v.a. can be a health care option for you. the v.a. has actually expanded that access by about half a million over the last four years. they've expand it had category eight. and there's actually we're talking about one of the things that we're looking at is expanding access for care for meltsd care, expanding access for care for combat veterans from five to 15 years. so that when people need care they can go and get it. host: here's a suggestion from he report who writes guest: well, judging by metrics, the veterans health care system tends to have a lot higher quality than the health care that members of congress get. this is what we found is that while people are frustrated with the obvious and insane problems at the v.a., when they actually do get in they like their care. when we survey our members, you know, the v.a. has a very negative rating when it comes to what do you think? doufrpblf do you think the v.a. cares about you? veterans respond overall in the negative. but when you ask specifically what about your care your g.i. bill, your home loan? they respond very positively. so the health care that you get at the v.a. is good. you just have to get in the hospital first. and that's the problem that we're seeing now in certain hospitals. and it's not just the access but it's also people who are supposed to be serving you who are supposed to be caring for you are essentially lying to you. and that's what makes this situation so ridiculous. because it's not a new problem. there's been over six reports on v.a. times and how they measure wait times and what they're measuring isn't actually what's happening in the patient experience. so this isn't a new problem. they're just getting busted for it now. host: let's go to texas. good morning. caller: gorpge. i would like to know if there's any stats tick available that would indicate the percentage of those people applying or attempting to process claims received a clear bill of health on their separation physical. thank you. host: that's a great question. no, there aren't statistics available for that and that is a huge problem. in the past the d.o.d. and the v.a. have had virtually no communication. they now sort of kind of have communication. if you're injured in service and you're leaving the service because of a medical condition there is actually a warm handoff. the v.a. does determine your disability. but most people leave the service and their exit physical is either not done very well or they just want to get out, or injuries that they had in service don't show up. this is a big thing with mental health injuries. post traumatic stress the show years afterwards. we're finding about a quarter of post traumatic stress issues happen 10 to 12 years after leaving service. so it's not necessarily that the day you walk off the military base those injuries are all what's accounted for. there are things that happen to you in service that might not show up until much later. host: i want to go back to something you brought up earlier, the issue of suicides and veterans communities. what work is the iava doing on this topic and where can folks go to seek more information on that if they want to? guest: so this year they're launching our campaign to combat suicide. this is a comprehensive approach to battling suicide within communities. we are looking at connecting over 1 million veterans to services and care. we are looking -- we are asking the congress to pass comprehensive legislation that is going to fix some of the broken parts of the mental health care and health care system and we're asking the president to sign an executive order to do everything he can in his power to fix the health care system and suicide prevention across the country. host: again it's iava.org for folks who want to look up the work that you all are doing. we've got time for a few more comments and questions with tom taryn tino of the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. ted is calling in from massachusetts on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm a veteran vietnam era. i've been in the v.a. system for quite some time. and the main thing that has happened was that the v.a. was started to be privatized back in the early 2000 and after as we entered into war, they did not increase the v.a. facilities. and that's what ended up leaving a lot of veterans back out and nobody taking care of us. presently right now if we make an appointment it can take sometimes three or four months to get that appointment and if you're hurt or feeling bad too make -- to get -- and you miss that appointment, you've got to end up waiting three or four months to get the appointment back. and that's where the main portion and problem exists. host: tom, on some numbers on the issues that he brings up is 152 v.a. hospitals in the v.a. health care system. 800 community based outpatient clinics. 126 home nursing home care units. the caller brings up the question once again is that enough? guest: in terms of v.a. facilities, yes and no. i mean, if you're looking at just the pure v.a. facility they have a decent amount of coverage. the key to this -- they've actually increased the amount of v.a. facilities considerably over the last ten years. and the key to this is making sure that people can get the right care at the right time from the provider that they need. so it's not necessarily that we need to build a v.a. hospital in every small town and across america so that everyone can have a five-minute drive to it. it's to make sure that the care they need organized through the v.a. can get to the vet. and that's why they are reorganizing it. because the system was designed where 10% of every town in america served in the military and that's not true. it hasn't been true for a very long time. so we have to get creative for how the v.a. provides care. we have to make sure that we have a care for veterans to keep the promise. but we also have to get creative with how we provide it. whether it's at a v.a. facility or a contract provider linked to a o facility. host: which brings up this question. guest: because the v.a. first the v.a. is a closed network. it's basically a closed hmo system. and you actually don't want to just go anywhere willy nilly because you have to make sure that your care is managed. so unless you are managing your own medical records, you have -- you wouldn't be able to go to five different doctors and then coordinate all that care. so one of the advantages of the v.a. system is that you do have care coordination. they have electronic health records that can transfer between all hospitals and facilities. one of the biggest problems of veteran care in particular is we do suffer from poly trauma. we have multiple injirns that interact with each other. and if you're seeing one guy for your bone injury and one guy for head injury and another doctor for a give problem, they're not talking to each other, you're going to have problems. so that's why the coordinated kire within the v.a. system is important but it's also why we need to make sure that they're coordinating with the private care providers that people can go to outside of the system. host: one more call in from jeff in tennessee on that line we have for veterans. good morning. caller: hey, thanks for taking my call. i'm a full-term dav, been on 50% service connected disability since 78. i'm familiar with the meb, the peb. and you all raised a lot of questions while i've been on hold, hmo's that's health maintenance, you know. i mean, and those have all kinds of boards. are you familiar with the v.a. experimenting on veterans? i was experimented on in augusta, georgia in the 8 to 90 period with the drugs of loxa pin and i'm a mentally ill disabled vet. now, it comes to pass that that drug is now used opiate addicted individuals. awaiting on some resolution of the claims so i can get a lawyer. i was put onhen disability, my doctor asked for 100%. the government gave me 50%. shut me out. miserable -- >> i do not want to cut you off, but we're running out of time here and i want to give our guest a chance to respond. know of the v.a. conducting experiments. it illustrates a huge problem with the disability system, in that it takes way too long, especially someone with a disability. it is taking way too long to get obvious care to veterans who need it. that is why we need the secretary to really push out in front and make sure people screwing with the system are being held accountable erie this is why veterans need his a focused on the v.a. and make sure the v.a. improves and does not get away with denying care to people who need it. >> you can follow him on twitter. appreciate you coming on. happy mother's day, and happy mother's day to mom. sleeping.you are we will get back to that hearing on thursday happening at 10:00 a.m. we will be right back to open up the phones to our viewers. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> everyone is coming to the new york world's fair. they're coming from five corners, idaho. they come from tokyo and kokomo and rome tom on down through arroyo -- aurora, illinois. 295 from the bronx. in the traveling teachers from kansas. and the wilson's got here at last. there's is the symbol of air, the great units fear. fully -- place playfully demonstrate the law of averages. by chance, the wilson's and they meet and join up or site seeing -- seeing. weekend, to the fair follows a variety of people as they. the 1954 world fair. today on c-span3. for over 35 years, c-span brings public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house event, briefings, and conferences. of rightpublic service industry. we are c-span, created by the cable tv industry 35 -- watch us in hd, like us on facebook, and swap s follow us on twitter. washington journal continues. >> we are back to open up the phone to our viewers here. in the last 25 minutes, we are happy to talk about any of the subjects we were you about this morning. our question this morning talked about the discussion. 202, 585 -- l -- we will also continue to go over some of the headlines and we're happy to take your comments on those as well. one of those headlines from posted -- "hillary clinton's no good, very bad week. week." one day, she was weighing in on gun control and obamacare and social in the alley, and next, taking the heat in benghazi. group behind the kidnap of the girls. then there was the monica of 1998.scandal this was arguably the roughest week hillary clinton has had since she left the state department early last year. that is the story in "politico." a possiblery on presidential contender. vice president joe biden appeared at a closed-door fundraiser in south airliner late friday and delivered an elizabeth warren type speech. the story notes several democrats at the event were struck by one remark he made about the clinton's presidency. biden said the fraying of middle-class economic security did not again during the president george w. bush term, but earlier in the later years of the clinton administration. biden of course could face off against former secretary of state hillary clinton for the democratic nomination in 2000 esteem if they both decide to , marcoe other story rubio headed to new hampshire on friday. the latest sign he is gearing up for a 2016 run. democrats is in front runner, saying, they are threatening to nominate someone now wants to take us to the past, to an era that is gone and never coming back there that friday night dinner with republicans, "the road toare on is the a the american dream. if you want to read more on that, it is on the hill newspaper site here at our phone lines are open and we are happened -- happy to take your calls. elizabeth is in florida, on our line for republicans. i have been listening to this and i am probably a candidate of everything that has gone wrong in the v.a. system. i ditched a jet in the south china sea, a hostage in north vietnam. you do not know about that and nobody does. i have been fighting this battle with the v.a. since i retired and the nsa still has me classified secret. why? deserve? i get what i >> we have been talking about problems with the v.a. and him of the sermon. what are your thoughts on the secretary? 2007, this was a letter. in 2014.01 to 50% i have attempted suicide three imes. our previous guest was talking about some of these issues. we are directing folks to some of their issues on some of these issues, if you're interested there. let's go to thank in arizona on our line or independent. >> good morning. i do a clinic locally and there are times when i do not even get to see my provider. everything goes through the nurse. it depends on her interpretation as to what service i get. i do not think she is all five to make those decisions. host: who is qualified? caller: my provider, or my doctor. host: have you written to the v.a. and asked them to address this? caller: i have written to them, complained of them call them, talk to my senators, and i got no response yet i waited 2.5 years to get a shoulder surgery. i cannot even watch my own hair anymore because i cannot raise my left arm's high enough. host: frankie in arizona. we noted earlier in today's program the referendum vote that in parts of eastern ukraine. we want to bring our viewers up to date in what happened there. we are joined by david of the new york times, a moscow correspondent. you for joining us by phone. -- thank you for joining us by phone. caller: i am in ukraine. ont: bring us up-to-date what the referendum votes are, where they are taking place, and the response of the government. you know the referendums are on the way in the east and part of the country. by unrest and violence for weeks now. some of these names are becoming familiar, american viewers and listeners. we see separatist trying to stage their desire to see it from the ukraine. -- to secede from the ukraine. andrew kramer is telling me some of the stations are filled with lines of people. some of them are not quite sure why they are voting to break up a country they would like to see remain united. they have a lot of anger toward the provisional government and quite a few people are turning out to express their displeasure and say they would rather be part of russia and president vladimir putin. that is where it stems. the government views this as the west does, as an entirely illegal and illegitimate process. it has been loud and clear. of theing head presidential ministration, the chief of staff for the president saying today that folks will be brought to justice and relating this illegal effort. the results will not be recognized in any way. >> we have a headline amid must -- much uncertainty. separatists prepare. fromw kramer has the story the ukraine. what has been the response of the russians so far and president vladimir putin? was he calling for the referendum to be postponed? >> that was a surprise wednesday of this past week when president clinton, who has been very clear he wants to see the rights of the pro-russian votes to be protected thomas saying it was a better idea to hold off. we do not know how sincere he was. yes and trying to make that this is an organic restaurants process. it may have been quite convenient for him to say, hold off and see the leaders on the ground say, we are going forward on the ground. and say, i cannot control these guys anymore then joined the demonstrators over the month -- months they were demonstrating your. some of the ground shifting. maybe more in russia's interest to start a dialogue looking ahead to presidential elections in the ukraine. the results after that, there is goy a -- so long this can on. further sanctions against russia, before it starts to be a real problem for him. off. we know held the inevitable result is that .here is some desire there is a segment of the population that wants this and wants to be part of russia. it was clear ahead of time russia was supporting that process. steps are not quite as clear. we will be watching for reaction and see what the challenge is. we are seeing the vote today. are there other possible votes being talkeds about down the road? is the the main vote presidential election scheduled for may 25. that vote is going ahead. there have been concerns all along, but it seems the central government is quite committed to carrying out that vote. they have provisional plans to allow voting in some of the disputed regions in the east and allow voters in crimea. they do not read nice russia's annexation of crimea. to come out of crimea into the border areas, if they want to vote for president. that would be a very important step. creating a new government that even russia would be hard-pressed to say is illegitimate. they constantly refer to the provisional government as the result of a coup. the ex-president fled. everybody can disagree about that here national elections, a clear winner, moscow would then say the government is illegitimate. that is a consequential moment coming in today. voting across the country for a new president. with the new york times on the ground. before we let you go, what is the latest on what that government is saying about the u.s. and international sanctions? and what effect they're are having in this situation? the government appreciates the sanctions already imposed and would like tougher sanctions, should the unrest continue. you heard warnings about this from the german chancellor and from the french president that if russia were to -- to continue unrest, it would legitimize the results that yet another round of sanctions is prepared. yes, they support that and in fact, russia is pressing ahead, although it -- there is an indication there are now negotiations. we expect to see a national roundtable coming up next week, or some dialogue that gets underway. host: david on the ground. thank you for joining us this morning. here is a headline from the washington post, a piece written by a russian-american journalist , the author of "the man without rise ofthe unlikely vladimir putin. who is next is the question. in a speech in parliament, putin accused the bolsheviks of having drawn an art that artificial borders. the piece notes that more importantly, putin clearly indicated he will -- borders drawn even earlier revolution of 1917 can and should be redrawn. in other words, he positions contemporary russia as the heir to the russian empire, as it was constituted under the czars. speaking to the public via his annual phone hotline, he brought other -- others in his to the scenario, saying parts of them were in czechoslovakia, hungary, and the hungarian empire, and parts of poland. andmessage is borders can have been drawn. let's just divide the ukraine between us. we have done it before. if you want to read more on that piece, it is in "the washington post". "ones to end today's washington journal." good morning. good -- caller: good morning. i want to talk about ted nugent, who called my president a subhuman mongrel. this is from wikipedia. listen to this area -- this. do not read wikipedia peer we want your reaction and not something from the website area caller: -- website. caller: this is the problem. you have people come in with their opinions. i want facts from wikipedia. on anything.basis this is from wikipedia. hello? ok. he tookgent said crystal meth and defecated in his pants -- host: let's move on. at in pennsylvania. good morning. thank you for taking my call. under president bush, we had 12 u.s. consul in attacks. congress, asns in soon as they got control, they cut the funding for security by $500 million. is republicans who did that should be impeached. goes, are john mccain civil war breaks out. he needs to shut up and do his job in america. . just cannot understand i am a republican and this is my party. they kicked me under the bus. i cannot even go into the bars here i say to good people, you supported these guys. it is embarrassing to be a republican anymore. >> who do you see as the leaders of the republican party now? >> i believe leaders are the coke rudders and i will not vote for anyone. i will vote a straight democratic ticket. i've had it with my party. they need all to be out of office. we need to start from scratch. at least democrats, they will do what we want them to do. that is my opinion. from pennsylvania, talking about an upcoming election. the worst week in washington went to a democratic senator of north carolina, noting that tuesday night did not go quite as the senator had hoped. that the state house speaker, widely regarded as the strongest potential challenge, not only finish first in the republican primary but avoided a costly runoff. north carolina is a swing state and national politics winds are blowing in the death their favor. a freshman democrat, you just got harder for them. the independent political handicapper moved a race into the tossup category, noting hagan does not have a significant advantage. watching your narrow edge collapse overnight. you had your worst week in washington. congrats or something. chris writes in his weekly worst week in washington peace. primaries are coming up this week. nebraska and west virginia, next week, highly watched primaries in states including arkansas, georgia, idaho, kentucky, oregon, and pennsylvania. we have got about 10 minutes left or so on here. charles is in las vegas, nevada, on our line for republicans. good morning. go ahead. >> i see a pattern here with the obama administration and the government in general. the government has been infiltrated by primarily the muslim brotherhood. if you look at the benghazi video, it was not about the video. it was about september 11 and killing our ambassador. they say it was our fault. you look at fort hood and they say, that was not an act of muslim terrorism. that was workplace violence. if you look back to the 1993 bombing of the world trade center, that was an isolated group. that was actually the blind shake, and he led the muslim brotherhood faction in egypt. ouror this infiltration of government you're talking about, where'd you go to try to find out information about that eschenbach what news sites do you trust? not necessarily sites. you have to read books. after 9/11, i read three dozen books on the muslim brotherhood, on islam, on sharia. if you get your stuff from sites, you're just reinforcing your own president -- prejudices. what you have got to understand is muslims think mohammed was the perfect man. mohammed was a warrior. he spread islam with the sword. he said "off with your head." we will go to sean waiting in pennsylvania, on our line for independence. "as. good morning. -- open phones. good morning. caller: a quick comment about the ukraine. shortlyteresting that after the situation started over there and started getting pretty bad, you know, our government did not hesitate one second sending our tax held -- taxpayer dollars over there to help. we have to nip it in the but, before it gets too crazy. we do not want to start world war iii or whatever, but i think it is interesting how quickly they're able to fund situations abroad and they are not so quick to help a mystically. -- help domestically. host: we are talking about several subjects here. -- a story from the obituary section of the new york times. a secret service agent who regarded vice president lyndon johnson when president john f. kennedy was assassinated in dallas, and who became a high-ranking secret service official when the administration -- he died on saturday in his home in alabama. he was among three secret service agents writing to record behind the convertible carrying mr. johnson and his wife lady on november 5 second, 1963. there is a picture of a secret service agent there. "theer story from washington post" this morning. noting u.s. officers killed arms civilians in yemen. it is a story that has gotten some attention over the last couple of days as reports have come out. the story noted a u.s. special operations commando fatally shot two armed yemeni last month during a botched kidnapping attempt in a commercial district of a volatile country. officials confirmed over the weekend the americans opened fire on armed yemeni of village -- civilians. a u.s. official said on saturday the u.s. embassy in yemen has been operating on reduced capacity in recent days as u.s. shows there have sought to limit the movement and exposure of their personality and a flurry of warnings. more on that is in "the washington post." glenn in oklahoma on our line for republicans. did i get the town right? caller: that is correct. talking about -- and there arete certain presumptive conditions, cognitives, presentedn, conditions. you submit then claims, you do not have to prove a service connection. .hese are given health issues related to the illness. however, in reality, when you submit a local claim to the local office, when you submit -- when you go for your cmp, you're going to end up getting denied for those presumptive conditions. host: let's go to linda in stanley, new york. linda is waiting on our line for republicans. caller: i have been listening to the program all morning and i keep hearing that the state like to cut over many years. a report just came out within the last two weeks in over five years, the state department has in dollars. six oh -- $6 billion. misplaced $6 billion. i wish people would get their facts straight before they go on here and spew all their hate and rhetoric. thank you. linda will be our last call her today. tune in tomorrow, where we will be joined by david hawking's, a senior editor, to talk about the history of select committees in congress. we will also be joined by luis of the wall street journal health policy or reporter to talk about the affordable care act and the demographics of those who are uninsured. of the simpson center joins us to talk about pay and benefits for active military personnel. that is all tomorrow at 7:00 pacific.0 a.m. hope you have a happy mother's day. ♪ >> today on c-span, "newsmakers." after that, a house debate on establishing a special committee to investigate the 2012 benghazi consulate attack, followed by nancy pelosi talking about the issue. >> we want to welcome back to "newsmakers" the chairman of the appropriations committee, hal rogers. here with us to help us with questions, to reporters, andrew taylor with the associated press and roxana tiron with bloomberg news. to remind youed but it may be useful to remind people viewing that laster's appropriations process was a bit of a mess. if you saw it ahead of the time. a time. i gave you at least uncertainty for what you use for last year's major omnibus bill and for the upcoming round of appropriations bills. yesterday you can rdc some landmines with them attract new -- you could already see some landmines with republicans. you going to avoid a situation in which you get to move the popular bills like the veterans bill or the homeland se
materials. a building there is also evacuated. this started around 8 a.m. when police found a person dead in the building. officers called the fire department after realizing that unknown hazardous materials may be there. >> oh, my god, it's so hot! >> the sun is beating right on you. >> it's going to be more scorcher today around the -- another scorcher today around the bay area with 100s inland. the heat is dangerous. medics took 30 people not emergency room at the alameda county fair yesterday. >> today is going to be hotter around the bay area. in fact, the temperatures soaring now outside looks like the heat is going to continue for the next few days. hot in the valleys, high pressure just dominate our weather right now. and yeah, these temperatures soaring in many spots. out the door, we're already in the 90s. check it out, 97 already in livermore. 93 in concord. 88 in san jose. and 90 in santa rosa. these temperatures running well above the average for this time of year, in fact in livermore, they are expected to be 15 degrees above the average right at triple digits 92 the expected high in san jose. hopefully, a little heat relief on the way, guys. we'll have more on that coming up in weather. >> have to stay hydrated. >> all right, lawrence, thanks. new at noon, today the u.s. supreme court ruled that some companies can opt out of the health law requirement that they cover contraception for women. cbs reporter craig boswell explains the ruling. >> reporter: the supreme court ruled some for-profit companies are not required to provide contraception coverage to employees. the decision came in a case brought by the owners of the arts and crafts store hobby lobby. the evangelical christian couple argued the affordable care act requirement their company provide contraception coverage is not violates their freedom of religious. obama administration says it's essential to women's health but the justices said the people could pay themselves. this will have an effect on 50 covered corporations. the court's 5-4 ruling, the contraception exempts to closely according to who are only under the control of a few people. it is also limited to contraception and not other insurance coverage requirements that may conflict with the employer's religious beliefs. craig boswell, cbs news, the supreme court. >> in writing today's decision, justice samuel alito says it is limited to contraception and doesn't apply to other insurance conversation mandates that might conflict with an employer's religious beliefs. facebook is doing damage control after negative public list to from an experiment to influence users' moods. it happened years ago. kpix 5's mark sayre live in san jose with reaction from some facebook users. >> reporter: well, frank, facebook says the point of the study was to see if emotions can spread from person to person without any face-to-face contacts but this has definitely concerned facebook users, who are already concerned about their privacy. when you scroll through your facebook newsfeed you may expect to see both good news and bad news. to see what impact the postings of your friends had on your mood, in 2012 facebook manipulated the news feeds of 700,000 of its users over a one week period. it removed good news from some feeds and bad news from other feeds, with the goal of seeing if it changed the mood of the user based upon future social postings. >> i don't like that. >> reporter: courtney sanders is a regular facebook user and is not happy with the experiment. >> facebook is part of being positive and negative so if you are going to take out the positive, i don't think that's that great without knowing. >> reporter: facebook user jason agrees. >> i think it's bordering on invasion of privacy because it's not -- it didn't get a consent from the actual person that they are doing it on. so it's almost like they're a guinea pig without knowing it. >> then you have to worry about, what does that mean going forward? are advertisers going to take advantage of that? are they going to start serving you ads if you're feeling blue. >> reporter: the data scientists who designed the experiment say the goal was to help facebook become a better service. andrew kramer says, i can tell you that our goal was never to upset anyone. i can understand why some people have concerns about it, and my co-authors and i are very sorry for any anxiety it caused n hindsight, the research benefits of the paper may not have justified all of this anxiety." and facebook says it is always reviewing its internal controls and may make some changes based upon the reaction to this experiment. mark sayre, kpix 5. >> you can get involved in the conversation on our kpix 5 facebook page. what do you think about facebook's mood experiment? and we have already got a number of responses and we just put it up 10, 15 minutes ago. san francisco general hospital leaders are looking ahead as they look back on last year's asiana airlines crash. tours were offered a couple of hours ago of a mockup construction site. it shows a redesign and new rooms planned for the hospital's emergency department. the changes could be critical after a disaster or mult h1n1 casualty event like the airline crash. >> we use every sort of traumatic event that happens whether it be a gunshot wound, asiana or anything to see what could we improve upon? >> dozens of injured passengers were taken to st. francis general after the asiana airlines accident. sunday will be one year since the crash. the u.s. supreme court refuses to hear an appeal from a north bay oyster farm fighting to stay open. the drakes bay oyster company is trying to renew its lease in the point reyes national seashore. but the interior department wants to return the waters it operates to full wilderness status. today by not taking the case, the justices left in place lower court rulings against the farm. happening today, drivers for san francisco's muni system are voting on a new contract proposal. it would work out in the past several -- it was worked out in the past several days, three- year proposal but details are not release. the old muni contract expires at midnight. an effort to have employees pay into their pensions was a key issue during the negotiations. and new at noon now, a california politician is turning the tables on texas officials who have been trying to lure california jobs it their state. california state senator ted gaines is visiting austin, texas today. one goal is it to try to keep california in the running for a battery plant that tesla may build in texas but he is competing for other jobs, too. >> we're here to invite jobs from texas to california. we are a state of innovators and entrepreneurs and job creators. and i'm going to be heading the charge in the state of california on a bipartisan basis to do so. >> senator gaines holding meetings with businesses to discuss the benefits and the drawbacks of texas's business climate. he will inform them about california's legislation to help businesses. los angeles clippers owner donald sterling is mentally fit according to a doctor's examination. the exam was set up by sterling's lawyer. sterling's estranged wife made a deal to sell the clippers by saying sterling didn't have the mental capacity to handle his business affairs. a court hearing on that question is coming up july 7. san francisco's 42nd annual pride parade was one for the record books. the outrageous outfits and colorful floats. >> good afternoon, roberta gonzales live in pleasanton where currently it's 95 degrees. are we having fun? >> yeah! >> all right. yes! we'll bring you the hot details still straight ahead. >> and hanging out at the pool looks like a good place today, very hot temperatures. there is some heat relief in sight. we'll talk about that next. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, es. the latest new at noon, general motors is recalling 7.6 million vehicles over the faulty ignition switches. the latest recall involves mainly older midsized cars and brings the total number of recalls this year to over 28 million cars. attorneys predict there will be hundreds of wrongful death and injury claims to follow. people filing will have to prove the switches, though, caused the crashes. there is no cap on the amount of money gm will have to pay out, as well. a look at wall street, a flat day out of the gate on this monday. right now, the dow is down a little over 20 points. san francisco's 42nd annual pride parade is a record- breaker. they are still crunching the numbers but turnout was the highest ever! there's also a record number of floats and it was the longest parade in the event's history. during the weekend of celebrations, 65 arrests were made mostly for public intoxication. it is hot out there except right at the coast. a big difference from the beaches to the valleys. you will see those temperatures heating up again already some of the numbers in the 90s inland. and it looks like it's going to get hotter throughout the afternoon. out the door we go. a beautiful shot over coit tower with high clouds. temperatures are on the rise in a hurry today. 90 in santa rosa, 97 in livermore. 72 degrees in san francisco. and 93 degrees in concord. mostly clear skies right now. you can see the clouds hovering off the coastline. a few high clouds overhead up out of the south nothing to ruin your day looks like a beautiful afternoon a few high clouds sweeping on through temperatures getting hot inland. that coastal breeze will be enough to keep the numbers down there. and then tonight a return to some patchy fog while staying clear inland. and then slow cooling over the next few days. still going to be hot in the valleys, but you will see more cooling day after day right through the 4th of july. high pressure in control right now. but this looks to be the peak of the heat. after today that ridge starts to break down a little bit. before you know it, temperatures cool down. but today it will be hot around the state. 108 in sacramento, 110 in redding. 107 in fresno. up 71 degrees very comfortable into the monterey bay. patchy fog likely to return to the coastline later on this evening, then overnight tonight. that ridge still going to be very strong so most of the valleys clear, patchy fog sneaking into the bay. so otherwise, we are looking at a toasty afternoon. these numbers headed up in the south bay into the 90s. about 97 degrees in morgan hill. 95 los gatos. about 70 degrees in pacifica. 82 in hayward. east bay temperatures they are going to be hot, triple digits into pittsburg, antioch and brentwood. about 100 degrees even in livermore and 97 in concord. inside the bay you're looking at 70s and some 80s. so yeah, looks like some sizzling numbers today. changes for tomorrow. your sunset time is at 8:36. sunrise tomorrow 5:52. next couple of days the temperatures dropping off slowly, staying hot inland. then more 4th of july fog is headed our way. so yeah, looks like a scorcher and looks like temperatures slowly cooling down. by the way, if you want to see what your weather will be like, go to our kpix 5 website and download the app for your iphone. >> go to kpix.com. >> thank you. maybe the best place to be today is the swimming pool. >> kpix 5's roberta gonzales joins us from a popular pool in pleasanton. and you have a cute friend. >> reporter: he has his little water rings on. hey, mom. can i put him in the water? are you sure i can do this? let me see if i can do this. i have to put down the microphone for a second. ready? okay! yay! everybody say yay! there's a lot to know about pool safety and children so we have nickie to talk about it. what do we need to know about the kids in the water? >> staying hydrated is so important. you need to have enough water throughout the day in fact we take frequent breaks throughout the day to make sure kids and parents as well are getting enough water. >> also, eating staying fueled is really important. they are expending a lot of energy so they need to eat constantly, too,. >> reporter: when do you open at club sports, we are open 364 days of the year. we have four beautiful pools open monday through friday from 5 a.m. to 11 p.m. and on the weekends from 6 to 10. >> reporter: okay. what we are going to do is let you visit us online at kpix.com for more information. ready, guys? here we go. ready to go in the water? >> all right. >> whoo! >> all right. roberta, thank you so much. looks like fun. right now, president obama is speaking to reporters on his call for $2 billion in federal emergency funds to stem the recent increase in illegal border crossings. the plan calls for faster deportations, more detention facilities, and tougher punishment for those caught smuggling children into the country. let's listen in. >> -- to compromise and get this done. the only thing i can't do is stand by and do nothing while waiting for them to get their act together. and i want to repeat what i said earlier. if house republicans are really concerned about me taking too many executive actions, the best solution to that is passing bills. [ pause ] >> pass a bill! solve a problem. don't just say no. on something that everybody agrees needs to be done. because if we pass a bill, that will supplant whatever i've done administratively. we'll have a structure there that works. and it will be permanent. and people can make plans and businesses can make plans based on the law. >> again, that is president obama talking to reporters about the $2 billion he is asking for in federal emergency funds. he has been criticized saying he is taking too many executive actions but he says the best solution is pass bills. >> much more coming up the 5:00 on that. from oakland to ivy league how this student beat the odds to rise above. ,,,,,,,,,,,, you say tomato? old el paso says diced tomato stand 'n stuff chicken tacos. you say, what's for dinner? old el paso says, start somewhere fresh. how do you helper? make helper with your favorite ingredients, for a fresh taste you'll love. helper. make it yours. helpers three-pack available at walmart. tonight's student risi sh half of all foster kids drop out before graft uv graduating from high school but -- before graduating from high school. but not this student who is rising above. she has even bigger plans for the future. wendy tokuda reports. [ applause and cheers ] >> reporter: carlene ervin graduated valedictorian from inspire prep academy in berkeley. from her speech she quoted from dr. seuss. oh, the places you'll go. >> you're off to great places. you're off and away. >> reporter: she is off and away to yale university this fall. carlene says her foster mother, who raised her, was the one who put her on the path. >> telling me that education was number one and always will be number one. she really has redirected my whole entire life. >> reporter: carlene was the youngest of five children living in west oakland before they were evicted. her parents were both deaf, unemployed and substance abusers. the pictures show a smiling little girl who was basically being raised by her siblings. her parents would leave the children alone for days. >> one day, me and my brothers and sisters were eating cereal, and we ran out of milk and my brother went into the kitchen and got ice cubes and put it into the cartons. shook it up and melted the ice. he says ice cubes make more milk. >> reporter: they ended up in a homeless shelter in richmond. that's when child protective services took the kids away from their parents and placed them in different foster homes. carlene was five. >> someone overheard my mother say that she wanted to kill herself and her children. like it became too much for her. and i never got the chance to ask her if it was true or not because i don't have contact with her. >> reporter: carlene used to have supervised visit with mom until it became too painful. >> i think it's got to be hardee motion nally. i can't imagine -- hard emotionally, i can't imagine anyone having it easy not having a relationship with their family. >> reporter: sarah has known her since middle school at college prep a small charter school for kids who don't go to college. >> every morning i would check in with miss salazar and i would always know i could go to her when i was dealing with something that was hard. >> i consider her family. she's my student. but she is family at the same time. you don't know someone for eight years without forming an attachment in. >> reporter: and the consistency of going to one school helped carlene heal. >> it wasn't like i woke up and all of a sudden i was attitude- free. [ laughter ] >> you know? it was kind of like every day i made a connection with the teacher. >> reporter: or another student. and slowly -- >> i would stop being so angry and stop shutting everybody out. >> reporter: it helped that she loved school and learning. >> she's fierce! carlene is fierce. she's -- she's into it. >> reporter: but more than that -- >> she gives me hope. >> that was wendy tokuda reporting. to find out how you can help students rising above go to kpix.com/sra. we'll be right back. ,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ab nd season 2 of under the dome premieres tonight at 10 p.m. on cbs. >> and i chanted with actor dean doris about the upcoming season and what it's like to work on a series based on author stephen king's famous book. >> no one is safe, that's the tag line. we'll see how that plays out as the season goes on. we had a high body count last year. we're going to keep it high this year. all these great books that you have read throughout your life, now you're getting to actually say the words that this great author writes for you and it was a real honor. >> it's on tonight. captions by: caption colorado comments@captioncolorado.com [ wind gusting ] [ gusting continues ] >> liam: quinn? is that you, you creepy bitch? [ lock clicks ] [ grunts ] aah! aah. [ fanfare plays ] >> pam: it never gets old. isn't it magical, oliver? >> oliver: defit