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confused, one goal of mr. giuliani was pretty evident. >> i've been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. >> it's not. >> collusion is not a crime. >> i don't even know if that's a crime, colluding about russians. >> okay. >> you start analyzing the crime, the hacking is the crime. >> that certainly is the origin of the -- >> the president didn't hack. >> of course not. that's the -- >> he didn't pay them for hacking. >> as you know, it has led -- the meeting with the russians. >> if you got the hacked information from the russians here at cnn and you played it would you be in jeopardy of going to jail? of course not. >> okay. the president didn't hack and he didn't pay for the hacking. so that's an interesting thing to say. that, though, you that see there, is an idea that trump's allies have trotted out before. it doesn't hold up to legal scrutiny at all, particularly when you consider that mueller has already charged more than a dozen russians with conspiring against the united states. the kind of conspiracy that could later be augmented with additional co-conspirators, be they russian or be they
so there's this mixture of your nutty grandfather who might get loose and walk around the back yard late at night and you've got to pull him back in the house, and someone who's specifically trying to do something. >> that's the thing. i can't tell. i'm a little bit like is this a bit or not. the hitting the head theatrically. where was i? is that a bit or is that like -- >> i think he's very ill-informed on the fact pattern. >> yes. >> i don't think he's doing his own work. >> or he's being lied to by his client. >> or all of the above. it could be all of the above. what you have is he's a sort of whirling dervish in the midst of this and what he's doing along the way is he's trying to smear people's reputation. on cnn this morning he accused mueller of having business conflicts with trump. he went after andrew weissman, one of the staff prosecutors on mueller's team, saying that he was a scoundrel. >> called him a scoundrel. >> without offering any proof. it's pure mccarthyite kind of tactics. i think anybody in law enforcement or politics who's watched rudy's career is seeing someone devolve into a fairly
hateful operator who's throwing a smoke-screen around this whole investigation in the service of president trump. >> is there also -- it seems to me also there's maybe this attempt to try to like take away -- it's like let's say you're being blackmailed by someone, right? and you just decide i'm going to tell the world what they're blackmailing me about bays take away all your leverage. i wonder if we're seeing some strategy where rudy just tries to tell everyone what michael cohen might know. you see what i'm saying? so michael cohen doesn't have any leverage on him. >> you are speaking the same kind of truth that people in michael cohen's world have been saying for the past two weeks, that they're trying to take cards systematically, one by one, out of his deck to prevent at the very best to prevent michael cohen from controlling the narrative around what's on each of those various cards. whether or not that makes him less likely to cooperate, less likely to be able to cut a deal, or just less likely to control what is said and how it's spun. it is sort of an effective pr strategy. i don't know that it's working
meeting at trump tower. it brings you back to the president inviting the russians to hack hillary's e-mail. he doesn't have to pay for the hackers. he doesn't have to sit with them at the computers. if he creates an environment in which he's facilitating the crime, that's aiding and abetting. >> the irony here is giuliani made his bones, right? became famous by prosecuting the mob. mob cases are rico case. they're conspiracy case. the whole thing is like talking to someone isn't a crime. but if you talk to them to tell them to do something in furtherance of a conspiracy then you might be criminally liable. right? conspiracy is what's at the center here. if you lead that document -- >> which is why he used rico to go after the mob. >> that's right. >> he used a conspiracy charge to take the mob down. and he relied on the testimony of made members of the mob, all of whom had their own agendas, like everyone in this case. >> that's a great point. >> like sammy the bull gravano. >> while the former u.s. attorney for the southern district's going around calling andrew weissman, a federal prosecutor, a scoundrel. >> a man who has an impeccable
career and impeccable credentials. >> emily jane fox and tim o'brien, thank you both. for more on the pr and legal strategy, if you can call it that, of the president and his attorney let's turn to legal analyst ben wittes, national security contributor matt miller, former chief spokesperson for the justice department. i want to play this sound for and you get your response to it, ben. him talking about sort of the call that went -- that don jr. made after he sort of has the exchange about setting up the meeting he calls a blocked number, house intelligence committee famously refused to find out what that number is. listen to what he says about that. >> the meeting with the russians, how can you be sure that the president didn't know beforehand? you're saying it was just a he said -- >> nobody can be sure of anything. but the one who came in and allegedly told the president about it was donald, which donald denies, the president denies and there's no corroboration of. and cohen has never said this at
any time up until now. >> when don -- don jr. made as you know that day before the meeting and i think after calls to a blocked number. was that the president? >> here's my question for you, ben. how important is it that clients share all the information with their lawyers? and do you think that is happening here? >> well, so one question is whether it's happening and the other question is whether the lawyer can have confidence that it's happening, whether or not it is. and i think the answer to the second question is clearly not. nobody who interacts with donald trump can possibly be confident that they've been given all the relevant information or that they've been told the truth. when you are -- particularly if you're a lawyer who's going out on television and making representations on behalf of a client, if you're a remotely responsible lawyer, which here is a condition contrary to fact,
you would want to know everything that could, you know, possibly rise up and bite you in the butt. giuliani does not seem encumbered by that concern at all. and in addition to the fact that he probably doesn't have full information from his client or at least he can't rely on the fact he does, he also appears to be making up facts as convenient to himself or at least getting very confused about them. and so i think there's a compounding effect where the client is not being a good client and the lawyer is not being a good lawyer. >> and there's also, matt, there's been a pattern about the trump tower meeting more than almost any single instance in this story of these disclosures that are just enough to get through the day. it's like the e-mails come out and oh, yeah, it was about, you
know -- it was about adoption. then it wasn't about adoption. well, okay, they said here's dirt on hillary clinton. well, then we actually did talk about it after. so this seems to be part of the pattern, where every time you keep pushing on this one meeting you get more disclosure. >> yeah, that's right. and it's not the only case they've done that. it's been true about the relationship with stormy daniels where they had one story first and they came out with another one. i think it kind of goes to this question -- two things. one is you talked about the importance of telling your lawyer everything. one of the reasons in a situation like this where your lawyer's going to come out publicly and talk su set the goalposts in the right place and you don't set the goalpost first my client never did this only to later move the goalpost to, well, yes, he did it but it's not actually illegal after all, which is what we see them doing. in some ways -- you're right in your analysis at the beginning they're trying to move the goalposts. but i think in some ways they're bringing him back not just to the first letter they sent to special counsel but what donald trump said at the very beginning
if you go back to 2016 at the famous press conference where he said russia, if you can get hillary clinton's e-mails i think you'll be greatly rewarded. katy tur pushed him on it right then if it was appropriate to encourage a foreign government to commit a crime. he told her yes, absolutely, and asked her to be quiet. so i think what you're seeing now is kind of the legal strategy, for lack of a better option, getting back to where donald trump's take on this has been ever since the beginning. >> what do you make of the collusion is not a crime line, ben? >> it's a very silly line. of course collusion is not a crime. but when you collude with some foreign intelligence entity there are many crimes you can commit along the way. and so the question has never been whether collusion is a crime. the question is whether -- first of all, whether some form of improper collusion took place and secondly, if it did, whether it would violate any of a number
of different laws. by the way, death is not a crime either. that doesn't mean murder isn't. >> well said. matt, i don't know what to make of this idea of a meeting on the 7th in preparation. the president's lawyer seems to be sort of floating as a possibility. if it were to be the case that such a lawyer took place -- such a meeting took place, it would strike me as completely destroying the idea this is a seat of the pants ad hoc free-wheeling, freelancing thing don jr. undertook. >> yeah, if you believe that idea anyways. there aren't a lot of free-wheeling seat of the pants meetings like this that involve the campaign manager, the candidate's son, the candidate's son-in-law. so i think that idea's always been pretty silly they put out there and this would just completely destroy it. and i think if you -- the clip that you played before of the president on the day that this premeeting would have happened if it did happen coming out and promising a big revelation about hillary clinton next monday. in the immediate sentence after that he actually talked -- one of the things that he says about hillary clinton is he's going
to -- is he attacks her for her dealings in russia at the state department. so it was the exact same thing that don jr. had been promised in the e-mail he got from the publicist rod goldstone, which were her dealings in russia. you have to believe in a lot of coincidences to think that they were promised that in an e-mail and then the president came out and talked about it publicly. and then of course never gave the speech because maybe they had the meeting they didn't get what they wanted. >> and there's 20 times at least they said oh no, he didn't know about it ahead of time and rudy giuliani still saying that now although he may change his tune tomorrow. >> or tonight. >> ben wittes and matt miller, thank you both. >> cheers. >> coming up the first trial in relation to the mueller probe set to begin tomorrow morning. federal court. the charges against former trump campaign chair paul manafort. what to expect from that trial in two minutes. use the chase mobile app® to pay practically anyone, at any bank? all while creating a masterpiece made of tea leaves? ♪ ♪
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starts with jury selection tomorrow. the charges include bank and tax fraud based on more than $60 million. prosecutors say manafort earned as a consultant for a russia-friendly ukrainian political party. which he apparently spent on everything from multimillion-dollar properties to luxury cars and even a $21,000 watch. this trial's expected to last about three weeks, but manafort also faces separate charges in d.c. and that trial starts in september. even closer to the mid-terms. for more on what's at stake for paul manafort and for president trump former watergate prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst nick akerman and it former federal prosecutor and also msnbc legal analyst paul butler. let's start with this. the basic core issues to me are fairly clear here. it's basically that he had a lost income routed to foreign banks and paid stuff out of them without ever telling the irs he made the money. >> that's right. basically cheating the government out of o'probably $30 million worth of cash.
it's a lot. what this is is it's a tax case. so you have to understand that the proof that's going to come in, they've got to do a couple things here. first they have to show he made a lot of money, that he earned it, that it wasn't a rich uncle in russia or the ukraine that died and left him $30 million. so you're going to have rick gates lay out exactly what they did to earn that money. >> rick gates, who is his deputy, who we know is cooperating with federal prosecutors. >> exactly. and then you've got to show that there were badges of fraud, that he deceived the government, that he hid the money, that he put in phony invoices, he created phony bank accounts and false names, that he did it through cyprus bank accounts and other offshore accounts in order to hide that money. so that's what this case is going to be about. and also in terms of the bank fraud showing that he lied about the value of various properties sew could get more money when he was really short on cash after the ukrainian government fell.
>> paul, in terms of proving this case, i think you called it a paper case before. there should be records they have. in should be people close to him saying here's money moving from x to y and the irs never heard about it. it's fairly straightforward if it in fact happened. >> it is a very straightforward case. in that case the trial's going to be long and kind of boring. there's going to be a lot of e-mails, a lot of documents, a lot of bank records. the prosecutors will try to jazz it up with reports of the $3 million brooklyn brownstone, the estate in the hamptons with the putting green, the million-dollar antique rug. but at the end of the day it's a tax case. the interesting thing is that mueller has charged 32 people with crimes. of those 31 have either pled guilty or are russians who won't be extradited to the united states and brought to justice. so manafort is the last man
standing. he's the highest-level official prosecuted by mueller with the closest ties to russia. and yet the prosecutor said he's not going to say the r word at trial, he's not going to bring up russia, collusion, or trump. >> that is an interesting point. here's what giuliani said about whether manafort has anything on the president. take a listen. >> he has no information incriminating of the president. i know that for a fact. they can squeeze him. paul manafort does not know anything. nor could it be possible that he did. he was with him for four months. >> this is the exact same thing he said about michael cohen a few months ago. that's the exact same words. i mean, it's almost like he's going to join the liar category pretty soon. just like he's called michael cohen a liar, he called james comey a liar. pretty soon he's going to be calling paul manafort a liar. >> but here's the thing. he hasn't cooperated.
to paul's point, he's the only one who's faced trial. i should note that not only rick gates but tad devine, who is a long-time strategist who worked for bernie sanders very prominently in 2016 and was a business partner of paul manafort's is also going to be testifying presumably about the work they did in ukraine. i guess the question, paul, is as a former federal prosecutor is your expectation here they're just going to go through with this trial and they'll do the other trial and if they win paul manafort goes to jail and that's the end of that or do you feel like there's something else about this set of facts with paul manafort in relation to the larger investigation? >> you know, chris, i've tried cases that have settled, that is, the defendant has pled guilty sometimes the day of trial, sometimes in the middle of the trial. they hear the opening statement, they heard very strong witnesses for the government, and they think, wait a minute. so you know, it remains to be seen. if it goes to trial, it's unclear what the defense will be. so far the public defense has been this case doesn't have anything to do with collusion and therefore mueller shouldn't
be bringing it. but that has not persuaded the judge. >> you know, there's one other part of this that i find fascinating which is that he made a lot of money, $60 million, over this -- that's a lost money. political consultants make a lot of money but that's a lot a lot of money. >> it's a lot more than i've seen. >> it's also $60 million he didn't pay taxes on. which is nice work if you can get it. but there's also the fact that he was broke apparently in 2016. he was broke and working for free and he owed deripaska $21 million. it seems at the core of this there's kind of a mystery of what the heck is up with paul manafort's finances? >> i think what he was doing was living way beyond his means. >> apparently. >> and when it came time to make more money when he did is commit the bank fraud. the whole government theory of the case is he stole money from the government by not paying taxes and then when the ukraine went bust and he lost his job and he still had to pay on all of these properties, all of these taxes, keep up his lavish lifestyle, what did he do?
he borrowed money from banks based on these properties by inflating the value of the properties, inflating jobs -- >> because he's totally squeezed and he's totally -- he's got way too many expenses to make up for. nick akerman and paul butler, thank you both for that. next, the president says he has no problem doing a shutdown. that is, shutting down the government over the immigration fight. jess macintosh and leon wolf on calling the bluff before the mid-terms after the break. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru.
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and effectively work together is pretty special. they bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. and the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg&e's been there, too. whatever we need whenever we need it. i do count on pg&e to keep our firefighters safe. that's why we ask for their help. i would certainly be willing to close it down to get it done. as you know, we are already approving things in various bills including we're going to be taking care of the military.
we always put the military and law enforcement very high. but i would be certainly willing to consider a shutdown if we don't get proper border security. thank you. >> the president today the president follows through on the threat he just issued, the federal government fully controlled by republicans could shut down just about a month before the midterm elections. which to be clear is the last thing the republican leadership in congress wants. we know that because paul ryan and mitch mcconnell met with the president last week to "pitch him on a plan to avoid a government shutdown." by delaying a fight over border wall funding until after the election. but now the president's threats of a shutdown appear to fly in the face of any deal republican leaders might have thought they had. >> homeland security won't get funded before the mid-terms. >> probably not. >> so you're not worried about a government shutdown before the mid-terms. >> no, that's not going to happen. >> that's not going to happen. to talk more about what the president is doing here i'm joined by jess mcintosh, executive editor of share bloom media who also worked on hillary
clinton's 2016 campaign, and leon wolfe, managing editor of "the blaze." benji sarly my colleague made the point today that usually shutdowns are this annoying blame game but it's refreshing to have the president just come out and say, he also tweeted over the weekend, he basically wants a shutdown. he will be responsible for a shutdown. >> yes. absolutely. and i think it's clear he doesn't understand how shutdowns work. he also doesn't understand how the optics of a shutdown are supposed to work in washington which is kind of fun. it seems like he is hellbent on sticking the republican party with something just awful right before the mid-terms. it's like we had the putin meeting. he was going to bring putin to the white house just as we're all going to go vote in the mid-terms and remind everybody that he's beholden to a russian dictator. and then that got scrapped and we're going to do that next year instead maybe. now he wants to shut down the government over border wall funding, which is just going to remind everybody what donald trump is doing at the border, which is keeping children in cages. >> and this strikes me, leon, as
something about the politics of this. i think the white house thinks and stephen miller thinks this particularly, like donald trump, that immigration is their strong card to play, they want immigration front and center. but the data on this is not necessarily with them. you have 58% of people disapprove of his handling of immigration. there's a record high 75% of americans saying immigration is a good thing. i think paul ryan and mitch mcconnell do not want this fight in the fall. >> i think probably if you look at this from the most rational standpoint it probably isn't political. you would have to think for him to really do this that for once this is really something donald trump means when he says, that he wants the wall. and he knows this is probably the last chance he's going to have to get it. the best probable case for the gop is they're going to lose some seats in the house but not enough to lose full control of the house and probably they're not going to be able to maintain full control of every gop member after the election for this wall. i think the calculus really is
that if the wall doesn't get funded before these elections it's not going to get funded at all. it always is an open question with trump, does he mean what he says, he's going to force the issue on the wall and i think we're about to find out. >> i take him at his word he wants the wall. the other thing is not just the wall, which by the way remember mexico was going to pay for, which gives the democrats a layup in terms of fighting a shutdown because mexico is supposed to pay for it. but he's also basically saying there's 11 legislative days until the government runs out of money. today he was also talking about changing all immigration policy for the u.s., get rid of what he calls chain migration and get rid of all this. totally redo immigration in the u.s. in the next 11 days before the shutdown zplep doesn't know that he only has 11 days. he doesn't know what chain migration means. he doesn't understand what any of the things he's talking about when it comes to this policy are except perhaps building a wall. it is a very simple concept. it is related to real estate, which is a thing that he tangentially is aware of in a
meaningful capacity. >> true. >> it's why we like -- he likes to see those demonstrations in san diego where everybody brings up the different kinds of walls. how many times has he walked through or had cameras walk through? we could have it look like this. we could have it look like this. this is clearly something he feels a personal connection to. i am going to argue because it's one of the only things before him as president that he has a basis of knowledge for wall building. >> there's reporting steve bannon came up with the idea of the wall. >> then he chanted back. it was his big rally thing. if he thinks the crowds want this. and other than draining the swamp never got as big a crowd reaction as building the wall. if he thinks this is what the crowd is going to go wild for there's no chance he doesn't desperately want it. >> there's nothing interesting about the relationship between ryan, mcconnell, and the white house. mcconnell in that statement where he says it's not going to happen, he doesn't pretend to care what the president thinks about any of this.
he clearly basically thinks the president is an idiot when it comes to this stuff specifically and he's going to run his chaim befr how he runs his chamber. >> and that only goes so far. but i think for the most part mcconnell has been -- he's been death on shutdowns for a long, long time. and i would argue look -- and i'm not in favor of the wall, but i would say, look, the last two shutdowns we had were in 2009 and 2013. the 2010 mid-terms and the 2014 mid-terms didn't turn out so terrible for the gop. i think he's more scared of a shutdown than is actually merited. now, that having been said, i do think that for the most part the senate is going to ultimately follow what mcconnell wants to do, at least those who are not up for re-election or have primaries coming up. >> timing here is important. i think a shutdown right before the mid-terms which we haven't had in a while -- a small one last year which lasted about a weekend. is very different. but i'm with you in the sense of bring it to a head. have a referendum on what the fight's about that voters know. jess mcintosh and leon wolfe,
thanks for joining us. coming up, with under 100 days to go, are republican mega donors really turning on president trump ahead of the mid-terms? color me skeptical. plus tonight's thing 1 thing 2 starts next. ♪ yesss! linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation. linzess can help relieve your belly pain, and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. linzess is not a laxative. it works differently to help you get ahead of your recurring constipation and belly pain. do not give linzess to children less than 6, and it should not be given to children 6 to less than 18. it may harm them. do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach area pain, and swelling. so say yesss! to help for recurring constipation.
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would have no reason to suspect that this guy he was meeting with wasn't really an israeli anti-terror expert. >> why alabama have this strong connection with israel? >> it's just alabama has always been a state that valued freedom, valued liberty. >> of course. >> and appreciated what people went through to get it. and i think that -- >> alabama has always been a place for equality. >> it has. and we've celebrated throughout our history things like this. >> in alabama people have always been free, whatever the religion or race or sexuality -- >> it's part of our heritage. >> of course. >> part of our heritage. that little back and forth was just the preamble to the real pranking featuring a demonstration of a brand new fictional israeli security device.
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book now at choicehotels.com sacha baron cohen's new show, if it's taught us anything, it's that wow, there are a lot of republicans who are really eager to meet with a hyper-macho israeli anti-terror character. disgraced former senate candidate roy moore of alabama is the latest. and this is the moment the anti-terror expert character demonstrated a new marvel of israeli technology. the pedophile detector. >> it is very, very simple to use. you just switch it on, and because neither of us are sex offenders then it make absolutely nothing. you just put it on, you put it nearby. [ beeping ] there's obviously a problem. hold on. [ beeping ] it must be faulty. sorry. is this your jacket?
>> yes. >> did you lend the jacket to somebody else maybe? >> no. i've been married for 33. i never had an accusation of such things. >> i am not accusing you at all. >> well, then if it is an instrument then certainly i'm not a pedophile. okay? >> no, but the machine -- >> well, i don't know -- maybe israeli technology hasn't developed properly. >> this is 99.8% active. it is not saying thaur a pedophile. of course not. >> i am simply cutting this conversation right now. thank you. >> have you been -- >> i support israel. i don't support this kind of stuff. (vo) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? (vo) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds?
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in greece wildfires drove thousands into the sea, killing 91 people. in sweden 2350i660 fires are ras far north as the arctic circle. in siberia of all places nearly 800,000 acres have burned and the smoke has drifted all the way to washington state. it is very, very hot right now, and it is deadly out there this year. there have been record temperatures all-time in dozens of cities across the world from ireland to iran. in the u.s. we saw a record-breaking 117 degrees in van nuys, california. 114 degrees in waco, texas. that's all happening right now. it's happening with an administration and a republican machine that fights tooth and nail to ignore the problem of climate change or to make it worse. and none more so than the koch political network, which has already spent tens of millions of dollars fighting action on climate change over the years. and get this, they're reportedly going to drop another $400 million in the upcoming 2018
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we are just 99 days until november 6th, election day. and the koch political network wants everyone to know this time they'll be holding the gop accountable. invited to their summit that not only do they oppose the trump's divisiveness and trade policies, they would even support pro growth, whatever that means, democrats who are willing to stand up to elizabeth warren. to be clear, despite whatever minor beef the koches have with trump, there are two political groups. the one that includes the trump white house also very much includes the koch organizations which has pledged to spend $400 to $500 million in the days to come is that that's not changing any time soon.
my guests are joining me. jason, i think the koch brothers have gone out of their way to create headlines about how they don't like the trade policy, they're breaking w the white house. i don't quite buy it when you look at the structural investments they're making. >> i think that they use the system illustrates that while they may be very unhappy with what's going on, they know their ideas are not very popular. so they funnel a bunch of dark money into the system every couple years. and then they say to republicans, go out there and convince people that all these ideas that we have are good ideas. and then when the ideas are still really unpopular a couple years later, they say, did you a bad job convincing people these ideas are good ideas. when in reality, perhaps they should just consider that their ideas are bad in the first place. >> here's the thing. when you look at the koch brother agenda, there was a great article in the "new york times," the treasury department
is considering essentially tweaking the way they calculate the sort of expenditure capital gains that would amount to a unilateral executive agency led $100 billion tax cut for the rich without congress. and i saw that and i thought, if you're the koch brothers, you don't like the trade stuff but that's sort of what you're in for. >> well, the koch brothers, you might be like them if you had their father. they very much believe that the federal government should have a military and police force and nothing else. they don't want to pay taxes or believe in regulation. they believe we can do it through contracts because we all have principles. it is very important to remember, the koches are serious peaches. they are good managers of their capital. anyone that thinks like it's a wonderful life, they're going like mr. potter, let's take homes from poor people is making a big mistake. you need to challenge them on their ideas and exactly
correctly, they are very popular on ideas. unpopular ideas. but they are figuring out how to market them so people are deceived. >> one of the things they've done very effectively, it is hard to trace because it is dark money, as up, they put a lot of money into state legislatures and into creating infrastructures in states to push their ideas. we saw in it kansas. i wonder what your experience has been. you're running for mayor if i'm not mistaken, this cycle, how it plays out locally. >> i'll tell you a story from 2012. this is not a new phenomenon. six years ago i was running for secretary of state in missouri. we have an individual, maybe part of the koch net work, i don't know, but who put almost $900,000 into my point's campaign for secretary of state. now the last, this is the secretary of state race. the last over 400,000 of that did not go directly. we didn't have limits on
contributions then but it didn't go directly to my point's campaign. it went through a pac and it was funneled and nobody knew it came from until after the election. the reason he did that was because we called him out on what he was doing. it appeared in the "new york times" a couple weeks before the election. my point is i think that they know that their ideas are unpopular. so what we saw in missouri, this is again when we didn't have contribution limits to what you can give on a campaign and they still chose a dark money route to directly give it. they feel that they're not winning the argument and the only way they can is if they can seal the messenger. >> just to be clear so people are not confused, this donor, i forget his name. a big missouri name. >> rex. >> he's a huge guy, always big chess maven. an interesting guy. >> he is an interesting guy. >> he is the koch guy.
he is not a koch but he plays role. one of the things that's interesting in tipping it more broadly, the koch brothers are not going after heidi heitkamp, they're not giving to her possibly, she voted for regulatory, to roll back dodd frank. and that to me shows where they're focused. >> the koch brothers are not republicans. they're libertarians. big l libertarians and they want to get rid of regulation. they really believe wrongly, but they really believe if we would get rid of all this regulation, we would be richer and healthier, the skies would be cleaner, the water would be cleaner and of course the koch brothers would be fantastically richer than they already are. last time on this program we talked about trade. it seems like you can choose to be a jeff flake here and make a speech or put your money where
your mouth is. they can spend $20 million trying to run against these terrorists. >> absolutely. >> they are the most powerful people in the republican party other than president trump. you asked, how does it compare, it was almost amazing to me how people would come up with a legislative idea, an agenda they thought might be bipartisan, people didn't say go see the speaker, go see the president of the senate. them, and insert a major republican donor. and it is the same deal here with the koch brothers. if they're serious that standing up for the country and putting the country ahead of the party, they can do it better than most of the senators, frankly. >> thanks for joining me. one last thing. if you've listened to our newest episode of our podcast, why is this happening, he has a new article that goes with the
PresidentTrumpMeetingCaseRussiansRobert-muellerCampaignTrump-towerManafort-trialElectionShutdownProblemA woman peers into a neighbor's yard and sees something for a few mysterious seconds: a man, a woman and a moment that's unsettling. What she saw and what she...
>> what had she seen? was this drowning really an accident? >> she's got a huge gash on her head. something like that is not consistent with just falling down. >> a husband and father is suddenly under suspicion. >> he's crying and we're crying. he said, they think i hurt mom. >> three daughters stand by their dad. and one prosecutor stands firm. >> he's holding his wife of almost three decades under the water. my job is to get justice for cristi hall. >> was it murder? hello and welcome to "dateline extra." i'm craig melvin. in this hour, a story that calls to mind the master of suspense. a plot straight out of an alfred hitchcock film. a young woman peers into her neighbor's yard and sees something for a few seconds. a man, a woman, and a moment that was unsettling. was it some kind of accident? a crime? maybe even a murder? what she saw and what she did
would set in motion a chain of events that would divide a family and a jury. here is keith morrison. >> we know the truth. and we know everything that happened. >> how do we know what we know? >> it's emotionally unsatisfying not to have that answer. >> though it is, even if we've seen something, or if we think we have. and thus the question at the heart of the whole puzzle. is this woman right? >> i know what i saw. and i know the conclusion of my story. >> of course she does. of course she does. so why does this other woman think this? >> she doesn't know for sure what she saw. >> a question, we say, on which all the rest will turn. why don't we begin here. calimesa, california, riverside county. historic missions. suburbs creeping around the rim
flirty at the gate. [ laughter ] >> in short order, chris and cristi got married. she was 17. he, 20. and as the girls grew up, they said they never doubted for a single moment the powerful bond of love. their parents with them, and with each other. >> they were probably closer with their parents than most children. they're the parents i hope to one day be. >> cristi, the vivacious but you of the family. chris, her perfect mirror. >> my dad is a little more kicked back, quiet, relaxed. they're the perfect balance. >> chris was a police officer in san bernardino until he was shot in the line of duty. then he went off to become police chief in two small towns in idaho. then in 2005, anticipating an empty nest and eventually
retirement, the halls boston this place in calimesa. life seemed to have hit a sweet spot. >> we happened to be laying on the bed with her. we started talking. she was like, i am just -- i'm so happy that i have you girls and dad. >> it was one of those conversations that you don't have every day. >> still, there was work to be done. it was not a new house. it could use some remodeling. particularly the bathroom. courtney was still living with her parents as the work began. >> they're going to be doing the tile work and stuff. so we wouldn't have a shower for that day. >> so, shower out of commission, they decided to wake up early, put on their bathing suits and rinse off in the outdoor spa
before the contractor arrived at 6:45 a.m. it was june 7th, 2007. chris got up first, turned on the spa to warm it up, then called brianna at her college dorm in san diego. >> your wake-up call, baby. get out and go on that run. >> back at the house, courtney dozed through her first wake-up. while chris and cristi made their way outside to the spa. just after 6:30, chris looked in on courtney again. second call. and headed back to the spa. life's last normal moments. 6:37 a.m. >> i got up out of bed. i was putting on my robe. i heard this panicked, panicked scream from my dad yelling for me. i ran down the hallway to the back porch and i saw him just trying to pull out my mom out of the spa. >> emergency. >> it was she who dialled 911 as she and her father struggled to lift her mother out of the spa. >> it was the first moments of the worst day of our lives. >> is it possible for people to understand what it's like to be in that situation? >> i don't think so. to see just both your parents in the worst times that you've ever
seen them. obviously my mom unconscious. and my dad just panicked and for the first time in my life, seeing him just that way, not knowing what to do. >> because he was a cop, he was used to dealing with these kinds of things. >> he was a cop used to dealing with those kind of things with people that were not his wife. >> so courtney took charge. after calling 911, she started cpr on her mother with her father. emt and firefighter eric norwood was the first to respond. >> he just started, help my wife, oh, my god, help my wife, help my wife. >> chris hall was kneeling at his wife's side, more in the way than anything, and so hysterical they had to move him out of the way. >> he didn't want to leave her. he kept holding her hand, yelling her name. >> the paramedics worked on her for 20 minutes. no vital signs. none. >> no words to describe the fear
and the anxiety. >> you're losing your mother and watching her go right in front of you. >> we tried to save her together. we just couldn't. >> the ambulance rushed her off to the hospital where she was declared dead. she had drowned in the family spa. a private family tragedy. except -- maybe not so private after all. someone was watching. farmers, we've seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything. even "vengeful vermin." not so cute when they're angry. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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home right away. >> it was courtney who eventually broke the news to ashton and brianna. their mother, their father's wife of close to 30 years, was dead. but neither courtney nor countries waited at the house to tell them what happened or to comfort them. nor did they linger over the body at the hospital. they couldn't. because father and daughter were escorted to several squad cars and driven to the police station to talk about the accident. what was that ride like? >> quiet. i remember crying the whole time. i couldn't comfort had i father. he couldn't comfort me. we got to the station and they said that my dad would be a few more minutes. >> chris, so frenzied at the scene, had calmed down by then. he was a cop among cops, after all, and he understood what was necessary to sort out what happened. >> i can't even start to imagine what you're going through, okay?
just, you know, it's a death investigation, and we have to do this. >> happy to help, he said. whatever would get him back home to comfort his daughters as quickly as possible. >> we're all so close. >> chris told investigators what happened. how, as courtney slept, he and cristi were in the spa bathing. >> she got out, went in, went to the bathroom, got some more coffee, tried to wake up courtney. courtney didn't wake up, apparently. she came back out. >> as cristi returned to the spa, said chris, they passed each other on the patio. he went in the house, stopped by courtney's room to make sure she was awake, then went right back outside and saw his wife floating face down in the spa. he called courtney, he said, and they began a frantic effort to revive her. >> in your gut, tell me what
happened. >> she slipped or something. i don't know. that's the only thing i can think of. >> but chris apparently hadn't noticed the nasty three-inch laceration on cristi's head. and here the point of the police interview is revealed. >> she's got a huge gash on her head, okay? something like that is not consistent with just falling down. >> not consistent with just falling down? why would the police think that? >> i mean, you've been around for a while. >> i know where you're going. and no. >> why in fact was this ex-police-chief being questioned at all about the apparently disastrous accident that killed the love of his life? and the answer was right next door. when chris and cristi hall took their outdoor bath that morning in june, someone was watching. her.
>> i got up at 6:00. got my coffee. >> lindsay patterson was on leave from her i.t. job in the navy, visiting her mom who lives just over the backyard wall from the hall house. lindsay was inside, in the bathroom that faced away from the hall house and out onto the street, when she heard a noise. >> it was a horrible scream. it was just, something was wrong kind of scream. >> a woman's, she thought. she went outside to tell her mom. i said, did you hear that scream? she said, yeah, but i think it's just kids playing in the -- playing in the pool. >> kids, at six something in the morning? lindsay walked over to the six-foot brick wall between their yard and the halls'. she stepped on the planter, she said, and looked over the wall. >> at that point i saw a man with his hand, one hand on top of a woman's head and one hand on her back, and she was face down in the water.
>> like something was going on? >> yeah, that's what i assumed. >> that is, she thought she was looking at a sex act in progress. >> i don't know why it didn't seem right. but something made me want to look again. >> that's 90 seconds, she said, between her first and second looks. this time, she said, she only saw the man in the spa. >> he's leaning back, just relaxed in the hot tub. but i don't see her. he's got his elbows back, he's kind of looking around like nothing. >> where did the woman go? lindsay told her mom something seemed strange. >> she again tells me, lindsay, stop being nosy, don't worry about it. but it just didn't seem right. it wasn't enough time for her to have gotten out and gone inside the house. >> so, said nancy, she went to the wall again. her third and final look. >> at that point he was getting out of the jacuzzi. and he was in a very big rush. she's still nowhere to be seen.
the look on his face was almost undescribable. it was almost as if he had just gone into another world. it was scary. >> it was instinct that told her something was wrong, said lindsay. so she called 911. >> 911, state your emergency. >> a woman was killed. >> now, hours and hours later, the detectives confronted chris with lindsay's story. why, they asked, didn't her story match his? >> i'm not going to say she's lying, she sounds like a truthful kid, whatever. but i don't know. i can't explain what she's saying she saw. >> so now that question we posed as we began. did lindsay patterson really know what she saw? two in one? i did mom.
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return from the police station. and they wondered, why was it taking so long? then the phone rang. and they had their answer. >> you know, broken-up words, and he's crying, and we're crying. that was when he said they think i hurt mom. he was very upset. >> but he didn't sound surprised when he said -- >> no, he was crying. he was crying. he was upset. >> very upset. >> but by the time police investigators were questioning chris, remember, they had heard from lindsay patterson. and at the station, chris's version of events in the spa differed in one crucial detail from what lindsay described seeing that first time she period over the wall and into the hall's backyard. >> that specifically, me holding her down in there, there's nothing that took place in that jacuzzi that would explain that. there was no sex. there was no -- i don't even think we had any contact while we were in the jacuzzi other
than when i was getting her out. >> but investigators were getting a good look at christie's body and saw wounds that to them suggested a struggle and more than one nasty blow to the head. so the police had to choose. which version, chris hall's or lindsay patterson's, was more likely the true story of what happened? tom dove is a senior investigator for the riverside d.a. >> i think they felt this was enough to say this was not an accidental drowning. it was purely much more suspicious than that. >> and so before the night was over, chris hall was arrested and charged with the murder of his wife. the girls could stop waiting. he wasn't coming home. >> it was obviously a tragedy, losing our mother that day. but this is a tragedy on top of a tragedy now. >> because knowing our parents, it's the farthest thing from truth. >> and one that felt infected by some kind of madness, said the girls.
cristi was the love of his life. how could he be accused of harming her? she was happy too, they said, as happy as she had ever been, they knew based on that mother/daughter talk they had not long before she died. >> she kept reiterating how happy it was. me and brie will always cherish that. >> that being the last time we actually saw her. >> kind of burned into your memories. >> yeah. >> but right or wrong, the legal trigger had been pulled. chris hall spent almost two months in jail, until his daughters received the payout from cristi's life insurance policy and used the money to bail him out of jail. then he went home to prepare, with the help of his daughters, for a murder trial. >> it's very surprising to have a client in a murder case out on bail. but he was a special man.
and this was a special situation. >> these are attorneys who would eventually defend him, although at first they only heard about the case. steve harmon and paul gretch. you've said two things. special man, special situation. >> i think both of us can say this is a man that we like and we know. we don't feel he could have done anything like this. >> chris hall and his daughters prepared for a trial which they hoped would make clear to everybody, the police, the neighbor, the world, that chris would not, could not, did not harm the love of his life. >> there was never, in 30 years of marriage, never one moment of violence. there was no motive for this man to kill his wife. >> they had a look at the neighbor's eyewitness account and suggested it was really not conclusive at all. it was tragically incomplete. >> she saw three snapshots. what is missed by everyone is the wife getting into the jacuzzi, slipping, falling into
the jacuzzi, hitting her head, going unconscious, and drowning. >> see this sharp corner sticking out into the spa? hitting your head on this would certainly have opened a gash and knocked cristi out, said the attorney. >> she didn't see what was really happening during the times when she was not looking. >> that scream that made lindsay patterson look over the wall? lindsay, they pointed out, was in a bathroom facing the street, not in the backyard when she heard it. it could have been anybody. and courtney, near the spa, didn't hear anything. >> we think she misinterpreted what she saw. >> lindsay concedes she didn't know what she was seeing in those glimpses that morning. >> something was wrong. >> yet you hadn't really seen anything. >> but i knew something was wrong. i don't know if in my brain i was putting things together.
but from between the scream, the position that he was holding her, and the not -- just not having enough time for her to have gone inside. >> it's like you've got three different snapshots. >> right. >> of something going on there. >> right. >> and had to kind of work out what this was. >> yeah. i wasn't thinking at that point, oh, this man murdered his wife. >> but now, based largely on that account, chris hall would go on trial for murder. and it was a trial for his daughters too. >> he loved her. they were each other's best friends. and this is just -- this is not fair to him because he truly loved her more than -- more than anyone. >> and yet the prosecutor was going to try to prove that this family man and former cop murdered his wife. could it be done? -i've seen lots of homes helping new customers bundle and save big, but now it's time to find my dream abode.
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>> burke strunsky is a hard charging man, ex-member in good standing of the d.a.'s office, now senior deputy in riverside. that takes skill, persuasive pour. strunsky would lead them in the case against family man chris hall. >> mr. hall on the surface looks like a loving family man. he looks like a good father. he's somebody that had the support of his family. >> but strunsky was buying the loving father and family man bit. when he heard about chris hall's obvious grief, the wailing that went on after the so-called accident, the phrase that crossed his mind was, "it's an act." >> i think it was a wonderful performance by the defendant of acting like a bereaved husband. but when you look at his actions, how little he did to help his wife. >> who tried harder to save cristi? not chris, said the prosecutor.
but his daughter. >> she called 911. she helped him get the body out of the spa. she is the only one that did chest compression. he had no interest in truly helping his wife. >> a matter of opinion, of course. but prosecutor strunsky poked around in chris hall's past as a policeman. and what did he find? >> this man had an uncanny ability to fabricate stories. >> seven years earlier, while hall was chief of police in cascade, idaho, he was charged with and convicted of misuse of public money, embezzled $9,000, spent ten months in jail. a white collar crime, hardly murder. but what struck the prosecutor is that he says hall tried to cover it up. to plant a fraud, to lie about it, not just lie about it, but lie about it effectively. >> i think that was very telling about who we were dealing with. >> suddenly the prosecutor's prospects were looking better. at the trial, strunsky made lindsay patterson his star witness, of course.
it was her story, after all, that got the whole thing started. but almost as important, he called the riverside county medical examiner who testified that those lacerations in cristi's could not in his opinion have been the result of a single accidental fall. and the bruising on her face and body was the hallmark of a homicide. >> the totality of injuries were not consistent with somebody slipping and falling and then a rescue attempt. >> and there was a clump of hair in the bottom of the spa, instinct entwined with a broken hair clip. that, he said, came from a violent struggle. >> when you lose that amount of hair, it's not explained by any fall. >> there were minor hiccups in the case. lindsay patterson, for example, was a little inconsistent about how long she looked over the backyard wall that first time she saw something going on. was it just a few seconds? or as long as a minute?
but either way, said the prosecutor, lindsay was sure she saw physical contact. that was the important thing. >> he was given the opportunity to explain any physical contact that could in any way reasonably explain what lindsay patterson saw. in other words, were they washing each other, were they involved in a sex act? was there anything she could have misinterpreted? and at the end of the day, you're not just stuck with the fact that lindsay patterson made a mistake. you have to actually believe that lindsay patterson really hallucinated about everything she saw. >> and what made lindsay's story all the more convincing, stayed prosecutor strunsky, was she told it before finding out what happened to cristi. she dialled 911 a full minute and a half before anyone from the hall house did. before lindsay had any idea how it would end. here is what the jury heard her say in that call. >> and i saw him put her underwater and hold her there. >> and she was still on the
phone with 911 when chris hall came outside and found his wife's body floating in the spa and called out for courtney. investigator tom dove. >> i heard it best described during the trial as a cosmic coincidence that someone could see something that they perceived to be more than just some kind of kinky action in a jacuzzi in the morning, and then that actually turn out to be true, that a woman was actually drowned but that spa. that is not a coincidence. that is what she saw. >> the prosecution's theory? somehow, sitting in that spa that morning, chris was overcome by some private fury, who knows what. the hidden violence, is what strunsky called it. and then killed his spouse when he thought nobody was looking. >> chris hall ambushed his wife, grabbed her by the hair, slammed her head twice into the concrete edge. he's holding his wife of almost
three decades under the water, showing absolutely no mercy, no remorse. and absolute desire to end her life at that point. >> and then the piece de resistance. >> he then gets out of the spa, walks into the house where his plan is to wake his 22-year-old daughter, who he can use as an alibi witness. >> one little quibble. why? in fact, as convinced as he was of hall's guilt, strunsky conceded the why was a problem. he didn't legally have to know, he said. but he just didn't. there it was. >> it's emotionally unsatisfying not to have that answer, not to know the entire narrative of what happened. >> but you would want to know why this guy, married to this woman for almost 30 years, apparently happily, would suddenly turn on her and drown her in the pool. >> right.
and i'm not sure we got the answers to that specific question. >> kind of an important question, isn't it? >> it's an important question, and a question that we ask in all spousal homicides. >> so, proof enough? or reasonable doubt? almost three years after cristi hall's death, a riverside jury would have to decide. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands?
tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. help stop the clock on further irreversible joint damage. talk to your rheumatologist. right here. right now. humira. the jury in chris hall's murder trial heard dramatic testimony from his neighbor, lindsay patterson. patterson claimed she had seen hall in the spa with his wife moments before she drowned. she said chris hall's hand was on his wife's head and back while she lay face down in the water.
now it was the defense's turn to show that chris hall loved his wife, would never harm her, and that her death was a tragic accident. here again is keith morrison. >> chris hall's daughters sat through every miserable minute of their dad's trial for murder here at the courthouse in riverside, california. their review of the prosecutor's portrait of their father? it was a lie, they said. >> it was hurtful to us to hear someone basically say he knows our parents better than we do. and he knows our father is a sociopath, and that we're blind to it, and he knows there was hidden violence in our parents' marriage and we just didn't see it. you're basically telling us we didn't know our whole lives were a lie. >> and there's no proof of that. >> chris hall had never been violent, argued the defense, had no motive, no reason to suddenly turn on his wife, it had to be a freak accident. so, said the defense, lindsay patterson didn't really know what she saw. in fact if she really witnessed chris hall drowning his wife,
why then didn't she claim to see cristi's body in the spa when she looked again? it didn't make sense. but the highlight was the daughters' testimony, emotional, quite powerful. it put prosecutor strunsky in a strange position, at odds with the victim's own family. if we had any inkling, we would have seen it, they say. >> they truly believe that in their hearts. this weighs on my greatly. but my job is to get justice for cristi hall. >> after six days of testimony, two days of deliberations, the jury couldn't decide. it was a deadlock. the judge declared a mistrial. chris hall walked out of court with his family, free. but not quite in the clear. and nothing at all like a victory for the hall daughters.
what was it like to get that hung jury? what did you think then? >> that was tragic. >> that was devastating to us. >> you expected a not guilty verdict? >> yes. not a doubt. >> deputy d.a. burke strunsky was disappointed too. he was also determined to retry the case. first he sent his investigator on a mission to explore the life and marriage of chris hall. and what do you know. in idaho, where hall had been a disgraced police chief, the investigator uncovered a startling accusation. >> chris was a great, great con man. >> former los angeles police officer jerry winkel is a county commissioner in idaho now. but once upon a time he was chris hall's friend, that is, before a night of poker and booze when he said paul made a disturbing revelation, that he had shot himself in the leg in order to get retirement benefits.
>> chris had been drinking beer. he came out and told me that he had shot himself. >> but there was more. d.a. investigator tom dove discovered a secret. not in chris's past but in cristi's. >> there had been infidelity in the past. >> the affair was relatively brief, years earlier. but she had been in phone contact with the man just days before she died. had chris found out? impossible to know. but when investigator dove talked to cristi's co-workers at the clinic where she was an x-ray technician, several said they noticed a change in her usually vibrant personality. one co-worker told them more. >> that she was contemplating a divorce. >> if true, it might persuade a jury. prosecutor strunsky also needed
to explain why lindsay patterson didn't see cristi's body when she looked over the wall the second time? the prosecution hired a water expert to do a recreation of the hall spa. she's been assisting law enforcement with drowning investigations for 20 years. she got in the spa. >> from the center of the pool and towards where lindsay was standing, anywhere i was laying, you could not be seen from lindsay's viewpoint. once i sank below the surface and hit the bottom, you could not see me at all from lindsay's viewpoint. >> and now the prosecutor was ready. in may 2011, one year after the first jury deadlocked, burke
strunsky went back to court armed with new evidence for a brand-new panel of hall's peers. jurors heard medical experts testify about the injuries to cristi's head and once again heard the 911 call. cristi's co-workers testified for the prosecution. and his once-friend testified. >> i was ashamed to admit he was once a police officer. >> well-known attorneys steve harmon and paul gretch entered the scene and came out swinging. that story about cristi's affair, for example? there's a shadow hanging over this, a very human shadow, which was that she was having a little affair, right, had a boyfriend. >> yes.
if the husband knew about it. but the wife never, ever mentions it and tells the husband. no one tells the husband. >> quite right, said the judge. and because there was no evidence that chris knew about his wife's affair, he ruled it out of the trial. the story about hall shooting himself for retirement benefits? >> that was just absolutely a lie. that's wrong. there was never, never any evidence or indication or not even a moment's breath that he shot himself. >> anyway, the story was prejudicial, said the judge, so he threw that out too. as for what lindsay patterson says she saw, chris hall holding his wife's head underwater, the defense had prepared its own visual demonstration, had taken pictures from her angle at the wall to show that it could look like two people were touching in the spa even if they weren't. >> this is what she described seeing in her testimony. but on the close-up, what do you notice?
>> they're not touching but they're in position where they could be. >> but that's different than actually touching. >> again, the hall daughters were there every minute. their father's enduring champions. and this time, more family members came to court. two of cristi's own siblings testified for chris. >> and said the same thing. we have not a doubt in our minds that this was not a moment of violence. this was not a murder. the victim's own center and own brother. that's an amazing thing to see. >> perhaps it was. but listen to this. the defense had one more very significant witness. a witness who oozed credibility. the sitting medical examiner for neighboring san bernardino county, who stuck his neck way out to disagree publicly, in a court of law, with the medical examiner from riverside. >> he found this to be an accidental death, not a
homicide. >> this was not some ordinary hired gun. this was a public official who said straight out that cristi's head injuries should and perhaps should be explained by an accidental fall. he didn't rule out homicide? >> he didn't rule out homicide. but he said the preponderance of the evidence was towards an accidental drowning. what -- i have always been astounded by with this case is that the hall family lived so close to the san bernardino border, if cristi had slipped and fell four or five blocks over, the pathologist in that county would never have filed criminal charges. an accident of geography. >> so now a second jury would sort through these two sets of allegations, these two opposing realities. and decide whether chris hall would turn and embrace home and his loving daughters a pair of handcuffs and a life in prison. no, what?
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want to test drive the latest devices? be our guest. want to save on mobile? just ask. want to demo the latest innovations and technology? do it here. come see how we're making things simple, easy and awesome. plus, come in today and ask about xfinity mobile. a new kind of wireless network designed to save you money. visit your local xfinity store today. chris hall's first trial ended in a deadlocked jury. but with new evidence presented by both sides during his retrial, the jury was able to reach a verdict. now, with the conclusion to our story, here is keith morrison. >> may, 2011. for the second time, 12 men and women of riverside county,
california, filed out of the courtroom, a second jury, to make a life decision about chris hall. did he murder his wife? which of the medical examiners should they believe? whose account of the defendant's character and, perhaps most important, what did lindsay patterson see when she peeked three times into the halls' back yard. >> do you ever have those sort of little dark moments of the soul where you think, i may have misinterpreted, misremembered -- >> it's something i've thought about every day, whether i misinterpreted, whether i think i saw something that wasn't there. i didn't see everything. >> yeah. >> but i saw what i saw. and i know the conclusion of my story. i know it. i know it. right here. i know it. >> of course, chris hall's daughters say they know the truth too, real thing. in their hearts. >> i think that we were the three most critical jurors in that courtroom.
believe me, if we had heard anything or had any inkling that our father could have done this, as much as it would hurt and as much as we love our father, we would want that justice for our mother. >> the jurors deliberated two days and then broke for the long weekend. it was memorial day. halls' daughters felt good. >> things can only go so wrong before so long before something has to actually go right for us. >> we just did a lot of talking about the future and this, you know, being over, this being finished and honestly i was concerned about dad and how he was finally going to be able to grieve for the loss of his wife. >> then it was tuesday, 8:45 in the morning. the jury gathered. and minutes later, a signal. they were ready. chris hall and his daughters rushed to court.
and in the end it was very quick. guilty of first degree murder. their father would not be coming home. probably ever. >> he was being cuffed. and potentially put away for life. and yeah. it hurts. and we are angry about that. >> you can still hear those daughters. >> i can. >> thinking you unfairly convicted their father. >> absolutely. it weighs on me. but at the same time, i know who i am dealing with when it comes to chris hall. in fact, he is the one that's stolen their mother from them. >> it had been a peculiar fact of this case that the victims' and defendants' families stood solidly together against the prosecution. what no one knew was the truth was more complicated. offer the verdict at chris hall's sentencing a letter was produced from one of chris
hall's brother, billy carlton who until now had said not one public word about the case. we would like to ask his honor for the maximum sentence, wrote billy. the pain that my family has suffered through this tragedy is unforgivable. >> i didn't want to hurt the girls. i had to say what was on my mind. >> there was a deep divide in the family said billy. some of the relatives believed chris was innocent but he and he said others including cristi's uncle steve mundy urged on the prosecutor silently. >> half the family was convinced he was innocent and half was convinced he wasn't. that's hard to do when you have a big family and you all have to be together once in a while. >> when it involves as member as loved as cristi was. >> exactly. >> does that explain why this kind of group of people in the family decided to just let justice take its course? >> we talked about it quite a bit. you've got to know when to show up sometimes and when not to
show up, just to keep what's left of the family as together as you can have it. >> thank you so much for coming. >> when it was over, hall convicted and sentenced to 25 years to life, some of cristi's relatives met with prosecutor strunsky and thanked him. >> thank you for putting him away because he is a murderer. >> and the hall daughters, having lost their beloved mother, fought to save a father they adored, and having lost that fight, aren't quite sure what they'll do now. >> for the family. to say we were close is an understatement, you know. to go from that to being not able to be there with each other. it's -- it's the biggest heartbreak that anyone can ever experience, i think. >> that's outline for this
SomethingAccidentFatherHeadHusbandGashSuspicionFalling-downWifeDadProsecutorDaughtersgeological, stable area. geologically stable area. we have hardly any earthquakes, and the ground weather conditions are good for our concept. in a final disposal facility... remote—controlled machines will do the work — slotting five—metre copper canisters into holes in the rock, before it's sealed off with clay and a thick concrete plug. most radioactive waste is temporarily stored in pools above ground. and worldwide, around 260,000 tonnes are piling up. but finland believes a geological tomb like this offers a safer solution. you need to cool down the spent fuel for 40 years. the world is full of those temporary storages, and almost all of that oldest waste is ready to be put to its final place. you might imagine that few would welcome such a facility in their back yard, but two thirds of finns support nuclear energy. and in the neighbouring town
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