we went to the mondawmin corridor. they just outnumbered us and outflanked us. bill: that was yesterday. there is an entirely possible newer the city of baltimore today and they are hopefully as best they can learning from the mistakes of the past 18 hours or so not to be repeated today. will that happen? bill gavin is the former assistant director of the f.b.i. how is it if you are running a city or even a state for that matter that you can find yourself in a situation where you are outnumbered and outflanked? can you explain that? where civil disobedience is permitted. civil disobedience will prevail. the actions of the police, the
law enforcement officers in baltimore who have been outnumbered stood by as places were looted, who have run in the face of rioters throwing bricks at them. that is why baltimore is out of control. so you don t need more restraint. you actually need more force to control the situation on the ground and protect innocent property owners and business owners. martha: we couldn t hear end of what overnight, 200 arrests were made. arrests were made this morning. and i think, i think the situation you re right. there need to be arrests. there needs to be use of force against people perpetrating violence. of course. i think it is happening. we re not protecting people who are burning police cars. we have to be very clear here. we re protecting citizens of baltimore. we re not worried about people, those are people who need to go to jail and quigley. you re right there have been number of arrests. rich, there has been this tone that we have to be somewhat, everyone in this country wan
on the side of the rioters. one of the reasons why police have to use force besides wanting to get their arms around this thing to regain control, defeat the spirit of these rioters, let them know in the long run this is not doing to work out real well for them. as long as you go in there with law enforcement sisters officers and tie their hands all will happen you will keep law enforcement officers in harm s way. this thing will not get better. i don t care if you put two times the amount of officers in there. you have to turn them loose to reasonably under the law use force to get this situation under control. martha: we saw the mayor on sunday, she was talking about the balance between the protesters and protection. she said we have to give them space to destroy. she later tried to take those words back. you hear what the police on the ground have told our reporters. when asked why you are guys holding back, they re saying, quote ask the mayor. the heck with balance at this point.
police cars on fire. so you have to have a zero tolerance policy, do you not? as bill gavin said, former fbi when the first rock is thrown that is when you make the first arrest, do you agree? without a doubt. there was more than just rocks being hurled. there were pieces of concrete being thrown which i think in some circumstances a deadly force response is justifiable. i m not saying to fully unload but at the same time, when i see cops getting bricks and pieces of concrete being thrown at them, all they can do is ward it off, they re in a losing situation. so, if the mayor you know, balancing forget about balance. they have to win. and they have to win now. martha: what about the death of this 25-year-old man in the van when he was under police custody? what do you think about that? we don t have enough facts. i don t have any of the fact the other than the fact that a man lost his life in an interaction with the police. we have to let the investigation ride its course to find o
got it right. thank you bill gaffe vine. thank you for your time in joining us today. frederick douglass high school was the high school we saw let out. we believe the pictures from the helicopters are the students throwing the bricks and stones at the officers as they were back pedaling off that side street. you have a situation where the curfew has been announced but it doesn t go in place for another 12 hours. the schools are closed and the national guard for the first time is outside city hall. the governor will talk at noon eastern. martha: thanks, bill. we ll have more on ball moral in a couple minutes. the colorado move irtheater gunman is on trial two years later. the prosecute yoorl is going try