so drop by and seize the savings! walgreens. at the corner of happy and healthy. if you have an image in your head for general douglas macarthur, it's probably this one, right? the iconic hat, the awesome sunglasses, before biden, right? douglas macarthur's sunglasses, obviously the giant corn cob pipe when he was the commanding general for u.s. troops in the korean war china sent hundreds of thousands of chinese troops over the border into north korea to help the communist side in the korean fight and general douglas macarthur went to president truman when that happened and he told president truman that he wanted the united states to wage war on china in response.
this is how the defense contractor, fat leonard, bribed officers of the u.s. navy's seventh fleet. in exchange those officers would allegedly give him classified information about the movement of u.s. navy ships and confidenti confidential information about other contractors that fat leonard would use to undercut them so he got the contracts. they even reportedly fed him information on criminal investigations into the bribery by his company so he could keep beating the rap, so he could stay ahead of the criminal investigations. fat leonard built himself a $200 million business supplying u.s. navy ships in ports abroad and he built himself that business by stuffing u.s. navy officers full of foie gras and cognac and other stuff. for example there was in may 2008 what the indictment describes as a "raging multiday party with a rotating carousel of prostitutes in attendance
party historical memorabilia related to general douglas macarthur were used by the participants in sexual acts." thankfully the indictment does not spell out which memorabilia was involved or which acts. i what do they have of macarthur's in the suite? i will say pictures of at least one hat and one corn cob pipe have been put on the internet over the years who say they have been been to the douglas macarthur suite so there's that to go on. but i feel like this story, the fat leonard story is amazing in its own right but because it's so amazing it's a really specific piece of evidence as to where we're at as a country right now because it seems impossible that a scandal this lurid with details like this hasn't taken over your newspar. it's impossible that somet this big and over the top d
ridiculous is not a scandal of national fixation. but it's really not. it's really not because honestly, where we're at as a country, as scandals go this thing can barely compete. there's no room in the scandal-absorbing part of our brains anymore because so many things are cooking all at once right now. for example there's the case of the health secretary tom price who bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stock in health care companies while he was writing and sponsoring and voting on legislation that would affect the price of those stocks in some cases he was buying stock in multiple companies then days later taking action as a congressman that would have the effect of inflating the value of affect of inflating the value of that stock he just bought. aspects of his stock trading while he was chairing an important health committee in congress were reported by the "wall street journal," by cnn, by propublica, by "time" magazine, tons of places but republicans still confirmed him
as secretary of health and human services well, sometimes that stuff comes due, news becomes history and now tonight propublica has a hair raising report that when preet bharara, the u.s. attorney in manhattan, when he was fired last weekend unexpectedly and suddenly by the white house, one of the cases preet bharara was overseeing at the time according to prublica was a criminal investigation into tom price and his stock trades while he was in congress. propublica is citing one source in their report. we tried all day to get further comment from anybody involved. the white house told us they weren't aware of any criminal investigation into health secretary tom price. despite repeated efforts to reach tom price himself and ask him if he has been notified he is the subject of a federal criminal investigation we got no comment from tom price or his department, from hhs about it. and, in fact, we didn't even get a no comment.
we literately got no comment. we got dial tone, nobody home. nobody even there to tell us no. usually what you get is "i'll call you right back" and then they never call. we got nobody. if anybody out there knows how to reach the department of health and human services, let us know. we couldn't get a single freaking person to answer the phone all afternoon long today. www.sendittorachel.com. this tom price thing this is the kind of thing that will hopefully result in congress making inquiries, it's no small thing for a cabinet secretary to be under federal criminal investigation just as it's no small thing for a u.s. attorney to be fired when overseeing an investigation, if that is what happened here. so that's a big potential scandal and we can't get anything out of the administration on it. maybe congress can. that said, congress is busy
right now on monday morning in a normal universe the biggest thing going on would be the start of the confirmation hearings for neil gorsuch, the nominee to be the next supreme court justice. that is obviously a big deal. those hearings are expected to go on for four days. starting monday democrats will likely oppose him in large numbers if not unanimously. they may act procedurally to slow roll his nomination as long as possible. substantively democrats appear to be focusing on his work defending torture and his enthusiasm for guantanamo during the george w. bush administration, but lines of inquiry can be hard to predict before these things get started. so we will see starting monday morning. that said i have to tell you even the confirmations for a supreme court nominee are likely to be overshadowed bthe other hearings that are starting on capitol hill at the same time on monday morning.
monday morning 10:00 a.m. eastern we get the first public congressional hearing into the links between the new administration and russia. former intelligence director james clapper and fbi director james comey are due to testify monday morning in the first open session testimony that we've got about the russian intervention into the election to help donald trump and any ties that may exist between russia and the trump campaign. we have reporting our hearts out on this all day and i can tell you there are a lot of rumors circulating right now as to what director comey will testify about on monday. what he will or won't describe in terms of ongoing investigations into links between trump and russia but despite our best efforts it's rumors only, nothing we can report with confidence as to what comey is going to say. in this case we'll learn what he has to say by waiting.
he's going to be testifying monday morning. also today the other inquiry in the senate they made their first announcement about what will be their first public hearing into the russian attack on our election. senator richard burr on the left, senator mark warner on the right announced today about a week and a half after we get comey and clapper testifying on russia on monday, a week and a half later on thursday, march 30 we're going to get the senate starting their inquiry into russia as well and the senate hearing, something i would sign up for if it was a college class and i was still a surly college student. look at the title. i have to say, this sounds awesome "disinformation, a imer in russian active measures and influence campaigns." really? and it's in two parts, the first part in the morning is going to be the history and characteristics of russian disinformation campaigns and the second part is the role and
capability of cyber operations in support of those activities. yes, please and can i sign up for office hours now with the t.a. and the professor. that sounds great. what's the title again? "disinformation, a primer in russian active measures and influence campaigns." i would read that if that was a novel. but that was just announced today. that's going to be on thursday, march 30. and we also got a related big piece of news today in the form of something that basically in the form of something that wasn't announced. you might remember earlier this week the nsa, fbi and cia all got a letter from the top republican and the top democrat on the house intelligence committee. that letter asked about this guy, michael flynn. you know, it's a scandal in itself. it is a scandal surpassing and
even eclipsing the alleged use of douglas macarthur memorabilia in a u.s. navy sex and bribery ring in manila. it's a scandal of immense proportions that the national security adviser had to get fired 24 days into his tenure because of the content of his communications with a foreign government, with russia. that's an enormous scandal in its own right. one that has a lot of unanswered questions still around it. one of the important things that remains unexplained about michael flynn's firing as national security adviser is how anybody knew what he was talking to the russian government about. michael flynn's calls with the russians were apparently listened into by u.s. agencies who were surveilling those calls. it's one thing to listen in on russian government officials but americans are not supposed to be surveilled by u.s. agencies unless there's a court-ordered warrant that says it's okay to do so. michael flynn was surveilled. why? was michael flynn the subject of a warrant?
if so, tavis warrant for a criminal investigation? was it a warrant for a counterintelligence investigation? and in either instance, if he was on the warrant, if there was a court-ordered warrant to surveil him because of one of those types of investigations, how did the white house end up appointing him to be national security adviser under those circumstances? so the cia, the fbi and the nsa all got a letter demanding that information about michael flynn by today. why was mike flynn surveilled? why was mike flynn -- why were his contacts with the russians surveilled by u.s. agencies. tell us by friday, march 17. tell us by today that letter sent to the nsa, fbi, cia, sent to them by one of the committees that oversees those agencies, fbi, cia, nsa, they can't refuse to hand over this information to the intelligence committee. but apparently they're not doing it.
i almost can't believe it. this is really, really not normal. the intelligence chair p out a statementoday crcally worded but what it says is that of these three agencies who were sent this letter told to explain this michael flynn thing, of told to respond to this, of nsa "partially responded." they say they will fully respond by the end of next week but the cia and fbi haven't responded at all. they haven't said beep, at least not by 9:00 p.m. eastern time. that's nuts. that's impossible. that's at least not normal. that is at least a really big national security deal. i know it seems like an arcane thing about who you you agencies like the fbi and cia won't hand over information like this to the committees that oversee them, that's a big national security deal. that's not the way things work
. those agencies may not want to hand it over, but they have to. they certainly may not want to release that information publicly but they really do have to release it confidentially to the committee. these agencies are overseen by congress, they cannot say no to a request like this from congress, but apparently they're not answering. that's really strange. what's going on with that? one possibility is that mike flynn ended up on that surveillance in error. that it was done improperly or illegally they shouldn't have in that case the fbi and the cia may be trying to get its ducks in a row because it may be people who work to those agencies are about to get in big trouble.
another darker possibility is that there is some damming information about michael flynn, about him being the subject of a warrant and maybe the trump administration folks who head up the cia and department of justice are impeding because it will look bad for mike flynn and the administration. i don't know. we don't know. but the fbi not responding to the intelligence committee? that doesn't fly. our constitution doesn't work that way. they have to respond and their non-answer is a big deal. the russian attack on our election last year, the unexplained connections between the trump campaign and russia during that time, during the time of the attack, the strangeness, particularly, the strangeness of the fbi in its treatment of this matter, it's unsettling it's unsettling not just because this is one scandal among so many scandals for this young administration, so many scandals that some are being
ignored because they're not big enough to warrant attention amid other scandals. right? this is unsettling not because it's one scandal but because if the worst is tru if the presidency is effectively a russian op, if the american presidency right now is the product of collusion between the russian intelligence services and an american campaign, that is so profoundly big we not only need to stay focused on figuring it out, we need to start preparing for what the consequences are going to be if it proves to be true. we need to start thinking about how we're going to deal with the worst revelations if they do come to light, if they are proved true. so tonight we're doing a special report. tonight what we're going to do with most of the rest of the show is we're going to start to try to do that thinking. tonight we are going to talk to some of the people who were the first victims of what happened to us as a country when the russians launched the attack.
real people who got hit first, who saw it up close and got hit in realtime. they haven't told their story of how they experienced it and what damage it did at the time before the country figured out what was going on but they're going to do that starting tonight starting here. that's our special report, it starts next. it's the phillips' lady! anyone ever have occasional constipation,diarrhea, gas or bloating? she does. she does. help defend against those digestive issues. take phillips' colon health probiotic caps daily with three types of good bacteria. 400 likes? wow! try phillips' colon health. it's just a date. i can stay. i'm good. i won't be late hey mom. yeah. no kissing on the first date, alright? life doesn't always stick to a plan, but with our investment expertise
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new staffer got there his job got suddenly very weird because something weird started happening in the campaign and it became his beat, his unexpected responsibility to try to make sense of it, to try to explain it, this thing nobody planned for which is that russian government hackers had broken into the democratic party's computer servers, helped themselves to anything they wanted. those lifted documents and e-mail stolen from the democratic party and ultimately from the chairman of the clinton campaign ended up becoming ammunition in an attack on the u.s. election, an attack designed to weaken the democratic candidate, weaken the democratic party, disrupt their strategy, disrupt their communications and ultimately help the republican candidate, donald trump, win the election. it's easy enough to say that now but in the moment, in the chaos of the campaign it was hard to persuade the public to pay
attention to that bigger picture, that the election was being disrupted it was being tilted. it was being externally operated on by a foreign government in favor of the candidate that that foreign government preferred. but for that new clinton staffer whose job it was to deal with this, this was his life. he was living this everyday. as that campaign nightmare was playing out it became this new staffer's job to learn everything there was to know about this hacking so he could explain it to the world and answer everybody's questions about it. he watched this hijacking of our election in realtime, he saw clues about what was happening early on, he had to figure it out fast, firsthand, live, and now as the country is woken up to the magnitude of what happened to us last year that staffer is ready to talk about it and i think his perspective on what happened is valuable in terms of us really understanding
what happened and starting to unravel it. joining us now for this special report is glen caplin, his responsibilities included answering questions about wikileaks and russia. thank you for getting a babysitter and coming back. >> thank you for having me back. >> i want to hear this so i'm glad you were able to come back so you started to tell thus story last night. i want to start again at the beginning. from your perspective what happened first? what was the first thing that got weird? >> well, the first thing that got weird was the "washington post" broke the story in mid-june that the dnc had been hacked and that was the first it started to get weird that -- >> you didn't have any indication before that report? that that had happened? >> we had indication once the report was happening, they
reached out to us for comment and we were aware of the story a day or two before it broke but that contact was the first we were aware of the dnc hack, that was the first time it got weird. where it got disturbing was when a couple days later guccifer 2 through d.c. leaks started dumping that information. >> and guccifer is -- guccifer 2.0 is like a hacking nom de guerre? it's a persona? >> it's a persona that is believed to be russian intelligence by cyber experts. >> and the guccifer 2 leaks ended up on d.c. leaks web site which is something that didn't exist prior to the campaign. nobody ever heard of. >> correct. and that dump was a massive amount of data, of documents that was not user friendly and was very harto get your arms
around. it didn't get an enormous amount of attention. >> what kind of documents was it? it was all internal to the democratic party. was it donor lists? >> donor lists, research, books, which is a compilation of clips of vulnerabilities of yourself and your opponent, a donald trump research book. >> so democratic oppo research on donald trump. >> right, but remember at that time donald trump wasn't paying for self-research so the fact that that research book was in there was quite interesting to us. and we believed very -- from the first dump that this was intended to help donald trump and undermine hillary clinton and the democratic party. this wasn't about her -- trying to hurt both sides or just undermine the election itself. >> i remember reporting at the time that in the case of the oppo dossier -- the democrats oppo dossier on donald trump there is -- that being published in june meant that any
ammunition the democratic party politically had against trump was then spent. was this out there. >> it felt like a gift to donald trump. . >> yeah. >> that research book being out was not hurtful to donald trump. that was a gift to donald trump. that was one of the tells that very early on this was about hurting us. >> so that happened when? >> mid-june. >> what happened next? >> well, what happened next was the wikileaks dump on the eve of the democratic convention. so if you think about it, this is sort of three shifts, the first is a dump of information in the first place. the russians have done espionage for decades. that's not new. every campaign for going back for years has probably been surveilled and there's been espionage. it was the information actually being weaponized and put into the public arena that was new. >> what do you mean by weaponized? >> put in the public arena as opposed to collecting
information for a foreign government's information and knowing what campaigns are thinking and things like that, which is the normal -- >> rather than them stealing it to use for themselves as the russian government, they were redeploying it into the american bloodstream to have an effect on the way we were dealing with each other as americans. >> correct. >> you talked about how there was a big shift, an operational shift that you saw between that guccifer -- the first leak and the wikileaks one, that it was more sophisticated in terms of how it could be weaponized, how it could be used here. >> correct. >> i hadn't i want to get into more detail with you on that in just a second. glen caplin, senior spokesperson for the hillary clinton campaign specifically on the issue of the russian attack at the time. we'll be right back with more. you have access to in-depth analysis, level 2 data,
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>> meaning? >> meaning traces on the actual documents. you could tell there was russian language on. it. >> so you could tell it was russian hackers? >> correct. now we're going to last week timed on the eve of the convention, highly searchable user friendly search function, we could very easily cull the wheat from the chaff in terms of the e-mails and reporters were able to very quickly search for the bernie e-mails or the dws e-mails. that got metastasized very quickly. >> you said in the earlier leak you talked to somebody who was an expert in these things who told you the russians were good at obtaining stuff but bad at deploying it for propaganda purposes. the second round, the second level of the attack cured that problem for them. >> correct, and the guccifer 2 persona claimed publicly to have given that information to wikileaks at the time. >> what was the affect on the campaign?
obviously the timing was insane i'm going to? this all happened the day after the end of the republican convention, the weekend -- literally on the eve of the democrats convention. what was the effect? >> it created a lot of stress on the campaign at the convention, there's no question about that. but it's hard to overstate how disturbing it is to have this unprecedented intrusion in our democracy. and we tried very hard to tell that story from the candidate herself, she spoke about it in all three debates. campaign chairman john podesta spoke about it, campaign manager, robby mook. communications director, all down the line. we tried to tell the story of this unprecedented disturbing intrusion in our democracy and unfortunately -- >> didn't stick.
>> the coverage tended -- was more about what was in the e-mails as opposed to why the e-mails existed, who is responsible for putting the e-mails into the public discourse and why. and that was frustrating. >> and your job was to try to explain this to people in a way that would make them get it, it was just a completely unreceptive media environment. >> i think there are a couple lessons that need to be learned. i think political campaigns have a lesson to learn because this is not a theoretical threat, this is a real and present danger for every campaign going forward. this is something they have to deal with. so political campaigns have to learn the lesson of how they protect their information going forward. i think 3w45ed needs to learn the lesson of how do you cover something like this when an adversarial foreign government wants you reporting on the details of this information.
in the end, none of the e-mails themselves were particularly damaging but for the last 35 days of the election it was a head wind that was constantly in the news and what does government do? and that's why it's disturbing to see a president who rather than taking this issue on doesn't believe the intelligence. >> did you feel like you had support from the administration in terms of dealing with this as a national security concern or a crime? >> the administration on october 7 attributed this hack to the russian government but what happened on october 7 was after the announcement you had the "access hollywood" tape and then an hour later you had the first dump of podesta e-mails. >> from wikileaks. >> so one wonders if there's a coincidence or not.
>> on that point, there's air force basely a very -- these signs point in a worrying direction, it was addressed by jen palmieri, i want you to comment on that and i'll bring campaign manager robby mook into the conversation after this break. we'll be back with glen caplin and robby mook right after this. stay with us. it's the phillips' lady! anyone ever have occasional constipation,diarrhea, gas orin bloatg? she does. she does. helpefend agnst those digestive issues. take phillips' colon health priotic caps daily with three types of good bacteria. 400 likes? wow! try phillips' colon health. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road.
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i want to bring in his boss, rob -- robby mook who ran the clinton campaign. mr. mook, thank you for joining us tonight. >> my pleasure. >> let me ask you about this point glen was make about how frustrating it was to feel like you guys were describing this accurately, you were putting appropriate emphasis on what was going on here about the outrageousness and the unique nature of the fact that russia had interfered in the campaign but it just couldn't be heard. i know you well enough to know from our conversations on the air to know you were frustrated. looking back with a few months in hindsight do you feel like there's anything different you could have done? is there something you wish you could have changed about the way you handled it to make people understand better? >> it's a good question. i think we were frustrated because as glen said, when the story first came out in the
"washington post" it was a one and done. i know when that first leak through wikileaks happened at the dnc i was on tv sunday morning trying to point to the fact this was the russians and part of a strategy and i think most people just treated it like spin and i think part of that is just because it was so unprecedented. it seemed like something out of a spy novel or something. in retrospect, i wish we could have tried to muster more national security officials to work with reporters and background them to really understand how it wasn't just that this was very possible but it had to be true based on, as glen said, there were russian -- there was russian language in the metadata, the hackers that went into the dnc, they were observed for a little while before they pulled up the drawbridges and they were working russian hours. they weren't working on russian holidays. it was totally clear that this is what's happening and i wish
we could have done more to provide that information so it didn't seem so fictional really. >> and it's partly that maybe people didn't believe it, they weren't prepared to believe it but also even if they did believe it, i'm not sure people understood just how unusual and radical a departure this is from the way things go. we all hear about there being data breaches in private companies or government agencies all the time and we've sort of -- it's become background noise. this was an international atta by a foreign power to try to change our politics. >> that's right and to be honest with you, to this day it's not being taken as seriously as i think it should in some circumstances and i don't know that the urgency is there to try to root it out. because it's not just the fact that they steal information and selectively leak it out, there's also a network in place through social media to disseminate disinformation as
you said russian active measures to create confusion or spread things that aren't true. if we allow these sorts of behaviors to remain and become entrenched in our political process it could have enormous impact on the legislative process. that's what i'm worried about we complain about super pacs and how they over time through punishing legislators who don't vote the way a corporation or wealthy people like that legislators start to fall in line and they make a decision on how to vote with the idea that punishment could come and i'm concerned a legislator could say i'm not going to take that vote against russia because they could hack into my personal e-mail, the e-mails of my family, into my campaign, we cannot allow that to happen, we . that's why we have to take action to flechbt in the future. >> the prospect that this wasn't
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jen paul mary, one of your colleagues on the campaign, she said on msnbc about the trump campaign and the russians, i believe that there was collusion. i believe that the trump staff, trump associates in some form, were at a minimum coordinating with wikileaks. in the timing of the leaks they were way too prepared. when wikileaks came oud with their leak du jour in the morning the trump campaign was ready to go with their statement about that." she's saying her impression. what is your view on that point, what did you observe in that regard? >> there is a lot of connections to the trump campaign and russia that we need to fully understand. so yes, what jen is saying, i agree with. i think every american, whether they're a trump voter on are a hillary voter, deserves the answer to this very, very important question and we need
to get to the bottom of it. >> when you were seeing stuff happen in realtime, did you feel the wikileaks stuff that was happening and the trump campaign stuff, did it seem coordinated? did you see evidence of anything -- >> we were seeing rt tweethe wikileaks dump of the day before wikileaks did. >> that's collusion between russian government and wikileaks. >> roger stone ding the campaign said that he was back-channeling with julian assange. he seemed to predict the podesta e-mails. >> not a formal campaign adviser but a long-time associate of mr. trump? >> a long-time confidant who has publicly taken credit for paul manafort getting the job as campaign manager. there's a lot of connections here. follow the dots and the puzzle's coming together. we need to understand the full picture. but every single american deserves an answer to this question. >> robby, same question. obviously collusion is the big scary possibility here.
nobody said that they have direct evidence of collusion. in your experience of it, did you see evidence for that? >> well, as glen said, i think we've got to answer this question. it can be pretty simply done. congress can get to the bottom of this and they seem to be beginning that process, that's good. you know, as glen mentioned, roger stone admitted that there were some communications there. i would also just say, you know, let's step back for a second. the whole reason we're having the discussion about michael flynn and this wiretapping is because the nsa was tapping russian agents. and in the course of tapping those agents, those agents were speaking to trump aides. and so we know that there were conversations, we just -- we're waiting to find out what they were about. as i said, congress can solve this pretty quickly. the last thing i'd say about it, though, is it's so important that this not be seen as relitigating the election or partisan witch hunt. we've got to get to the bottom of this to make sure it doesn't happen again.
i've been encourage at least very much on the senate side, and we're starting to see on the house side, by partisanship to do this together. >> robby mook, glen kaplan, both formerly of the clinton campaign, thank you very much. i have a feeling we may ask you back on the same topic as we learn more. thanks, gentlemen. i will never wash my hair again.
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form of government when you find yourself working at the very top of it and knowing you're in some crazy grade school recess yard where the big skid sticks the other kids with nicknames, brags about himself like some dangerous clown, and you having to take it every day, every minute? that's "hardball" for now, thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes," starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> did you undercut the secretary of state today with the iq comment president president floats an iq test. >> senator bob corker called the white house an adult day care center -- >> tonight multiple new detailed reports supporting the adult day care method of managing the president. and what it means for the country. >> senator corker is certainly entitled to his own opinion. then blockbuster new assault allegations against harvey weinstein. >> please come in. i'm everything -- i'm a famous guy. >> i'm feeling very uncomfortable right now.
little bob corker up by working recording his conversation, was made to sound a fool and that's what i'm dealing with." like so many statements lie this president that claim is false. according to audio cork i could new the phone interview was on the record and had aides on the line making a recording of their own. >> i know they're recording it and i hope you are too. >> yeah, i am. >> according to reporter jonathan martin, after they got off the phone corker's aides made sure he had recorded the call. they wanted to ensure his extraordinary charges were precisely captured. as the president's retaliatory tweet today demonstrates twitter remains one of his few unsupervised activities and it's apparently one he relishes are according to politico the president has on several occasions walked down to the oval office in the morning and told aides he knew they didn't like the tweets he sent earlier. they're not presidential, i know, he said, with a mocking tone on the word presidential. it's one example of how the president chafes to restrain his impulsive outbursts and defuse the ticking time bomb in the oval office.
>> almost an open secret in washington that bob corker's now saying --py want to put in context the conversation i had with a prominent republican who literally was saying they imagine general kelly and secretary mattis have had conversations that if trump nunch are lunched for the nuclear football, what would they do, would they tackle hill, physically restrain him, from putting the country at perilous risk? that is the kind of situation we're in. >> wait, that's the conversation you had with a very senior republican musing about what would -- >> talking about these are the conversations that they have very good authority, are taking place inside the white house. i would say this mar-a-lago strategy is a sort of emblematic of how general kelly does not want the president to be out of his sight. and i think that's a very serious story that all of us should be talking about. >> the idea being that this is one of the recurring themes, that the president who is -- it's not crazy to sate most powerful person in the world. >> yeah. >> and has the authority to precipitate nuclear war.
kelly speaks to his character. and his stature and his integrity. so yei don't think this is the case behind the scenes they're egging him on, i genuinely think they're trying to a daily basis to do the right thing. that said we're in a situation where the president thinks of himself as someone who is not beholden to advisers. this again is uncharted water. i think the question will be, going into the sort of pressure cooker of trying to get tax reform and others, if the president seems like he has nothing to lose, what does he do next? if he can't get any legislative agenda coming up on the one-year deadline of his first year in office, what happens? >> do they feel that, do you think, in the white house? >> oh, clearly, without question, they know the clock is ticking. that's why you're seeing the drumbeat of stories. the pressure inside is ratcheting up. >> gabe sherman, amazing reporting, thank you for sharing that. congressman dan donovan, a republican from new york
agenda. he set out a very ambitious agenda, chris. he wanted to do health care, he wanted to do tax reform, he wanted to do infrastructure all in the first year of his presidency because he realized in a two-year election cycle like we run in the house, you get more things done in the first year than you do in the second year. i think he's getting frustrated. he's using the bully pulpit to try to push his agenda forward. as you have seen, he's seen talking to democrats to see if he can make deals to get more -- enough people on board that he can get some of these things passed to the american public. he promised the american public he would make america's interests first. >> you think the reporting, you any the on the record statements by senior member of your party in the senate, bob corker, and the constant drumbeat of reporting in which aides to the president speak about him in terms of someone who has to be controlled, a wayward toddler, volatile, you think all of that is wrong and invented, the whole corpus of that is just people with bias or making it up?
>> no i think you said it before, chris. are we getting spin from insiders, people around? are we getting accurate information? you hear people saying that. you hear people saying that the president wants to move the agenda forward. so chris, you're getting different interpretations. you said before about his tweets. the president does that so he can get his message unfiltered out to the public without anybody interpreting -- >> what do you think, honestly, when you wake and up see that he called bob corker little bob corker and he said "the new york times" set him up, and that's clearly not true, that's an untrue statement. it's belied bit tape, we can agree on that. i wonder what's your reaction as a republican member of congress? >> the president has always had nicknames for a lot of people. and today everybody's making a big deal about how he's comparing his iq to other people. those things are the president's way of making some things -- just making them down to earth. so i think he's not getting the credit he deserves for trying to
and certainly health care, i don't know that the president -- >> you just fundamentally don't buy this whole notion that kelly and tillerson and mattis and all these people are just sitting there trying to mind this man that they fundamentally think is so volatile they might have to tackle him if he goes for the nuclear football? >> i don't think so. i think rex tillerson, general mattis, and general kelly, are advising the president using their years of experience to give him the best advice that they could give him, and that they're going to carry out his mission. >> i hope you're right and the reporting's wrong. congress man dan donovan of staten island, appreciate you being here tonight. betsy woodruff is a politics reporter of "the daily beast." mckay, it seems we've turned a corner. i don't know if it's because more things are coming out or because of the tillerson battle or because corker finally said this on the record. i feel like this perspective is essentially an open secret in washington among lobbyists, hill
an anti-establishment insurgency, gotten into office, then kind of conformed somewhat to the norms of washington. they're seeing trump hasn't done that and i think it's alarming a lot of people. >> to the tillerson point about the stakes here, to give people context in case they hadn't seen this quote, "forbes" asked about the moron comment, i think it's fake news but if he did that i guess iq tests can tell you who is going to win. which the white house later said was a joke. he said he didn't undercut anyone. that's to me is the thing that it's easy to lose sight of the stakes here and the reason corker's speaking out is you heard what gabe sherman said. ultimately he's threatening north korea over twitter. he's about to decertify the iran deal. you've got two massively high-stakes nuclear issues on the table. the president is treating the way that he treated running against ted cruz in the primary. >> right. these are extraordinarily consequential issues. and it's kind of easy to talk about the language being used.
corker's tweet about adultdy care. and treat this like a situation that's amusing. butful the top-level, long-term republican operatives that i talk to about this presidency don't treat it like it's funny. >> no, they're scared. >> right, grief and keep concern, exactly. i think it's important that people recognize that. when it comes to looking at what happened between trump and corker, i had a number of conversations over the course of the day with people familiar with his thinking. and the sense that i get from those conversations is that charlottesville was a really important moment for corker in terms of shifting how he talked about trump. he hadn't been shy about criticizing trump prior to that. but when that happened, that's when corker first said that he thought trump hadn't yet evinced the stability to be president. he really went after trump as an individual in terms of his character, in terms of whether or not he as a human being was able, at that particular moment, to lead this country.
and then the tillerson piece is also really important. corker is one of the few people on capitol hill to actually have a close, productive working relationship with tillerson. he chairs the senate foreign affairs committee. when the president goes after tillerson, when he tweets he's wasting his time, when he pooh-poohs the work of the state department, my understanding is that's something that very much rankles corker. corker and staff have put a lot of time and energy into trying to help tillerson, trying to help him manage these really complex issues, including iran and north korea. for cork tore watch the president turn around and just torch all that can't be easy. >> and part of the stakes here, to betsy's point about this sort of -- the kind of policy vacuum, whether it's daca, which steven miller is basically destroying by himself on the hill, like you just get the sense that there's total vacuum about what the agenda is and what the government's going to do, and it's filled by the impulsivity
of the man at the top who at any moment could careen off course based on whatever stimulus he receives. >> this is i think also one of the reasons that you're starting to see republicans like corker more willing to speak out. i mean, also let's be clear here. corker's also retiring. that's a big reason that he's able to speak out. >> right. >> but that doesn't mean the substance of his critique doesn't matter. i think the thing that's happening, though, you mentioned it earlier, the legislative agenda is a disaster. it's entirely boss that i believe we'll get to the end of this year without a single legislative accomplishment from the trump presidency and this republican congress. and republicans on capitol hill who were willing to hold their nose, bite their tongue, for months when it came to donald trump, because they wanted their tax cuts, because they wanted their obamacare repeal, are starting to say, look, if we're not going to get anything done, then i have a lot less incentive here to hold my criticism to
myself. >> mckay, betsy woodruff, thank you. >> thank you. >> the explosive sexual assault and rape allegations against harvey weinstein, the audio recording of a police sting, and the household names coming forward. attorney gloria allred's client said she left the industry after encountering wane stein.
repeatedly asking for a massage or initiating one himself. today in "the new yorker" more than a dozen accusations against weinstein, three that go beyond sexual harassment to allegations of rape. farrah, a nbc news tributer, calls weinstein's behavior well-known among colleagues "16 former, current executive asks assistants at weinstein companies told me they witnessed or had knowledge of unwanted sexual advances and touching associates with weinstein's films and in the workplace." they and others describe a paper of professional meetings that were little more than thin pretexts for sexual advances on young actresses and models. one of the women is ambra gutierrez. she was 22 when she first weinstein in 2015 and went to nypd after she says he groped her in his office. the following audio obtain the by "the new yorker" and published was reportedly recorded the next day as part of a spring traition. ambra agreed to meet weinstein
and spoke to him about the hallway of his hotel as he tries to pressure her to go to his room as she repeatedly refuses. >> i'm not going to do anything, i swear on my children, please come in. on everything, i'm a famous guy -- >> i'm feeling very uncomfortable right now. >> please come in now in one minute, when you want to leave -- >> why yesterday you touch my breast? >> please, i'm sorry, just come on in, i'm used to that -- >> you're used to that? >> yes, come in. >> no, but i'm not used to that. >> i won't do it again, come on, sit here. sit here for a minute, please? >> no, i don't want to. >> if you do this now you will [ inaudible ]. never call me again. okay? i'm sorry. nice -- i promise you i won't do anything. >> i know but yesterday was too much for me. >> i will never do another thing to you. five minutes. >> no criminal charges were ultimately filed in that case. a spokesperson for weinstein says he denies any allegations of nonconsexual sengs and says
he never retaliated against women who rejected his advances. in yet another blockbuster story "the new york times" revealed more accusations against weinstein including on the record a-list oscar-winning hollywood actresses like gwyneth paltrow and angelina jolie. a 91 of outlets, more than 20 women have now accused weinstein of everything from harassment to flat-out rape. the women range from paltrow and jolie to women who left the entertainment industry entirely, in some cases they say because of weinstein. attorney gloria allred is representing one of weinstein's accusers, the mother of attorney lisa bloom, who had been individualing weinstein before resigning from that role saturday. your client is no one.someone -- tell me the accusations she has against weinstein. >> what she reported in her news conference today was that he invited her to pitch a screenplay that she had done to him, that they started out in
the restaurant, that the restaurant then said, well, they're closing, and that he indicated that she should come up to his office. and the office was in the hotel. this was at the sundance film festiv festival. and that she had heard rumors and she said that she asked mr. weinstein in front of a camera at the hotel to promise and swear that he would not do anything, essentially, to her, if in fact she went up to his office in the hotel room. she indicated that he did do that and that she went up to the hotel room, to the office, and they continued to discuss her pitch. for her screenplay. and then she reported in the news conference this morning, she alleged that he came out in a bathrobe.
in her words she said "buck naked." and her allegation was that he wanted her to watch him masturbate. which she did not want to do. she was able to get out of there. but that was a very disturbing situation for her, very upsetting. and she spoke out today because she knows there are many others still who have allegations against mr. weinstein. but who do not want to go public because it may be that they're afraid of retaliation, or to other reasons having to do with the industry. and so she felt that she wanted people to know that we have a process that we've invited mr. weinstein to participate in. because in addition to the therapy that he indicated he would be getting and the pain that he has acknowledged that he has been responsible for, for
some women, we'd like to invite him to help to provide justice for any person who is alleging that she's a victim of mr. weinstein. so we're inviting him to waive, in other words give up and agree not to assert the statute of limitations which is an affirmative defense, in other words, saying it's too late to file a claim if this happened years ago. >> right. >> and to agree with us on a retired judge who could then conduct a trial, that's an arbitration, and then decide after the alleged victims can present their evidence, mr. weinstein can present his defenses, who the judge finds should prevail. if they find that the victims have presented a preponderance of the evidence and should prevail, the judge can decide damages according to proof at trial. if, in fact, the judge finds in favor of mr. weinstein, then, in fact, he can announce that publicly. so he'll have due process.
the alleged victims will have due process. and then that's a fair system to have these allegations resolved. not the court of public opinion only. but in an actual legal process. >> he seems like he has retained attorneys and is going to fight this. even if he expressed contrition in that first statement. and had retained your daughter, who has parted ways with him, i know you were asked about that this morning and said you guys have different decisions on different cases. it seems to me like he's going to fight this tooth and nail. is that your expectation? >> well, my daughter is with a separate law firm. and so she's not representing the accusers, i am. and i love her and respect her and she can represent whomever she wishes because that's her own law firm, not mine. and i know she'll make good judgments about that. what do i expect him to do and through his lawyers? well, this is actually a very reasonable process, as far as we're concerned. very fair. >> right.
>> to everyone involved. and i think it would help him to restore his reputation. because i think, chris, it's likely that harvey weinstein is going to want to come back and produce films in hollywood. even if it's not through the weinstein company. >> yeah. >> and so this will be an important positive step forward where he can reach, we hope, a positive outcome on these numerous claims against him. and it's good for many of the alleged victims too because some of them don't want to speak out publicly. some of them just would like to have access and this help. >> i anticipate we're going to hear from more of them. gloria allred, thank you for joining me. kellyanne conway and others bizarrery trying to score political points on the harvey weinstein scandal but have they forgotten who was elected president?
steve bannon, former white house chief strategist, breitbart chairman, went online to level threats against the republican party. on the heels of a senate victory in alabama, bannon says he's going to support primary challenges to almost every single republican senator next year with one very notable exception. >> remember, i said i'm going after the republican establishment. and we're going to go after them. we're going to challenge as a coalition coming together that's going to challenge every republican incumbent except for ted cruz. >> huh. except for ted cruz? why does ted cruz get an exception? and why incidentally are you again wearing two button-down shirts under a blazer? you mean this ted cruz? >> lyin' ted.
you're a liar, whoo. bible high, bible high. puts it down and then he lies. >> donald, you're a snivel coward, leave heidi the hell alone. this man is a pathological liar. he doesn't know the difference between trues a between truth and lies. >> why is ted cruz of all people getting the gloves-off treatment? people familiar with bannon's plans told bloomberg cruz is considered conservative enough and is thought to be moving toward the populist approach bannon favors. bannon and cruz share a pait criterion, someone who bannon appears utterly unwilling to cross. the reclusive conspiracy-mongering billionaire behind ted cruz, steve bannon, and the trump agenda right after this. me right now, isn't he? yup. (butch barks at man) butch is like an old soul that just hates my guts.
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daughter rebecca redirected the super pac, run by kellyanne conway, to support donald trump instead. the mercer connections to trump, the breitbart movement, and the alt-right go deep. they reportedly funded milo yiannopoulos last seen by "all in" singing "america the beautiful" at a white nationalist bar with white nationalists giving nazi salutes. cambridge an lit ka, a research firm that worked for the trump campaign. robert mercer is quite the character. "the new yorker" reported people who know him say he believes bill and hillary clinton have been involved in murders and that black people are better off economically before the civil rights movement and that humans have no inherent value other than how much money they make. according to one former employee, bob thinks the less government the better, he's happy if theme don't trust the government, if the president's a bozo he's fine with that, he wanted it to all fall down." i'm joined by the former
spokesperson for breitbart news, kurt bardella. how instrumental are the mercers as sort of a force behind breitba breitba breitbart. >> they're the life blood of it. at the end of the day what matters in politics are outcomes of elections. the way you get there is with resources and money. the reason why people are taking steve bannon's attack and assault against the republican establishment so seriously is because they know it's not just steve bannon. it's steve bannon with a benefactor that has very deep and unlimited pockets and resources to put into these type of elections and races and make them at the least competitive, if not to outright have enough money on win them. it's one thing when you have a lunatic like steve bannon and breitbart at the fringes putting up ridiculous headlines, it's another when they have enough money to build an entire political action network that can be incredibly effective in the political process. >> there's also the fact -- going back through the sort of reporting today, i guess i didn't quite grasp or i did but had forgotten how crucial they
were financially to bright wart going from essentially a collection of blogs to being a media company. they were the sort of -- they staked it, the money and capital it needed to become the platform that it would become. >> right. remember, in the wake, immediate aftermath of andrew breitbart's passing are there was a lot of questions what would happen to breitbart, would it survive, is it a viable platform without their namesake behind and it active? all of a sudden here come the percent is with deep pockets giving breitbart that second lease on life, and in fact giving them the resources that made them even more impactful having even more of an audience, being able to use social media to grow their following. they are so much more impactful because of this money. we're seeing now them deploy that. they're not just a media company really functionally, they're a political action network. >> that's the key point here. this is the -- the percenters made a variety of investments that are all sort of working in concert. you've got reporting that rebecca mercer would call up someone at breitbart and say she wants them to do a story on a
conservative whose app has been kicked out of the itunes store, and lo and behold there it is, bannon writes an e-mail being like this is a victory. they have avenues for their political intervention, whether it's a super pac, bannon, breitbart, money the candidates, came bridge anylytica, a diverse portfolio. >> it creates a self-is staining ec echo chamber. to reaching the president of the united states. one of the most terrifying anecdotes so far in the new kelly regime at the white house is trump had asked, where's my breitbart news? think about that. the commander in chief wants to get his information from platforms that are basically self-sustaining propaganda machines. that's terrifying. >> let me ask you this. i followed your career for a while, watched you go through various iterations. when the way you're talking about breitbart is hard to square with you working there. how do you come to -- you're talking about this place as sort of this contemptible hornet's
nest of conspiracy theories, deleterious actions to the country. when did you realize that? >> so i'm sure a lot of your audience right now is wondering, how can chris have this guy on who worked at breitbart in the truth is this. when i first came across breitbart, it was after andrew died, steve had talked about wanting to build a platform that told and chronicled the story that was going on on the center right. there was a lot going on there and i thought, yeah, that story should be told, that's interesting. what i didn't sign up for and didn't realize i was getting into was someone that was as frankly crazy as steve is, who also had this political saegd and wanted to build this ecosystem to prop up someone like donald trump. when i saw that happening i decided i need to get out of this, this isn't right for me, i don't want to be a part of this, i don't feel good about this. so i made the decision to resign and become a -- to speak out and tell as much of the truth as i can about who these people really are. >> do you view bannon and breitbart and the sort of trump
world as essentially a kind of united front mercers? >> yes. bannon has said his goal is to destroy the establishment, to destroy the pillars of the establishment that keep this republic going. and the fact that it goes from bannon to people that are as funded with mercers and the resources all the way to the white house, that is an incredibly dangerous alliance that can do a lot of damage to this country. >> kurt bardella, thank you. next, a very quotable "thing 1, thing 2."
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♪ so we created the only bed that adjusts on both sides to 9 out of 10 couples prefer a different mattress firmness, your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. you can even see how well you're sleeping and make adjustments. does your bed do that? the most amazing part is they start at $699. that's $200 off our queen c2 mattress during the final days of our fall sale. ends sunday. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you. "thing 1" tonight, the president's use of punctuation. you may have seen the president tweet that he launched at bob corker in which he called the tennessee republican little bob corker. you may have noticed in addition to the nontraditional spelling of little, there's a spray
apostrophe after the "e." that's not a big deal but we spotted another trump trend. >> you have lying ted cruz. i nicknamed him lyin'. how would you spell that? lyen. with a big apostrophe. >> that's "thing 2" in 60 seconds.
♪ it's not just a car, it's your daily treat. ♪ go ahead, spoil yourself. the es and es hybrid. experience amazing. all right, one of our favorite internet things are sites that collect unnecessary quotation marks seen out in the world. some examples, a sign written please use "caution" on the stairs. smart lipo by a "real" plastic surgeon. if you are "pregnant" please inform the technician. good for what laugh, no harm done. if you are looking for unnecessary quotation marks we found the mother lode. the twitter guide of the president of the united states. donald trump quoted "just found out that obama had my "wires tapped" in trump tower." there's no need to put the phrase "wires tapped" in quotes
unless he meant something necessarily. >> when i say wiretapped, those words were in quotes that really covers. wiretapping is pretty old-fashioned stuff but that really covers surveillance and many other things. and nobody ever talks about the fact that it was in quotes but that's a very important thing. >> i'm not sure that's what quotation marks are for. but wait, there's more. if the ban were announced with a one-week notice the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. a lot of bad "dudes" out there. i would have far less reason to "tweet." and intelligence agencies should never allow this fake news to "leak" into the public. >> so with all of the people coming in, we'll have problems like you wouldn't believe. she wants 550% more coming in from syria than the thousands and thousands that our "president" has coming in. than our name suggests.
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over the past year arguably the most powerful men in media, in homtd, and in pollties have all been accused by multiple women of various degrees of predatory sexual behavior. roger ailes, chairman and ceo fox news channel, roger ailes was forced out after multiple ak sigsz of misconduct. harvey weinstein was fired from his own company over the weekend over further accusations of sexual predator taking surfaced which he dnlz. and then there's the president of the united states, almost exactly one year ago the famous "access hollywood" was released which we don't need to play because everyone remembers that taip, but what is not always remembered is what happened right after that tape was released. woman after woman came forward, noorl a dozen all, accusing donald trump of inappropriate behavior and sexual assault. "the new york times" spoke with accusers who said donald trump groped her during a flight in the early 1980s. >> it wasn't until they cleared the meal that somehow or another
the armrest in the seat disappeared and it was a real shock when all of a sudden his hands were all over me. i hesitate to use this expression, but i'm going to and that is he was like an objecting toe pus. it was like he had six arms. he was all over the place. when he started putting his hand up my skirt and that was it. that was it. i was out of there. >> the other thing we seem to have collectively forgotten is the way the presidential candidate who denied all the ak sigsz, attacked the women who accused him. >> when you looked at that horrible woman last night, you said i don't think so. i don't think so. whoever she is, wherever she comes from, the stories rl total fiction. i was sitting with him on an airplane and he went after me on the plane. yeah, i'm going to go after you.
believe me, she would not be my first choice. that i can tell you. man. you don't know. that would not be my first choice. >> mere is what trump said about other women who accused him of sexual assault. >> she's right. she's a liar. she is a liar. she's writing a story. check out her facebook page. you'll understand. hey, one came out recently where i was sitting alone in some club. i was sitting alone by myself like this. and then i went wa so somebody. every woman lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign. total fabrication. all of these liars will be sued after the election is over.
[applause] >> what do you -- how are you processing or thinking about the weinstein story a year after that story about the president? >> yeah. watching those clips was toughment i haven't seen those since. >> they're pretty bad. >> i remember that week on the campaign. that was, i think, the hardest week psychologically on the campaign. and it was funny because you would watch snl that night and they would cut to us partying and popping champagne. that was not the mood. there was a lot of women in that office and listening to the cheers as that man suggested that these women were too unattractive to assault. there was no political upside to that. the fact that -- we didn't even know he was going to win at this point, but the fact that somebody had come that far with that kind of backing making that kind of statement already showed that we were much farther gone as a country than i had previously realized. i think at this point aside from the perpetrator's, for the most
part believe -- there are decades of women who all come forward with the staple story at this point thank god we tend to believe them as a story. >> yeah. >> when he said in that "access hollywood" tape he said something like when you're a star, they just let you do it. the women in the -- the 53% of white women, the majority of men who voted for him proved that right. up that's why i think it's so extraordinary we see these latent consequences now finally. >> for weinstein. jess said they believed him or didn't care. >> i think for the most part they believe that that is how men behave. >> yeah. >> even harvey wine sustain, no one would say it's okay to do what he's alleged to do. they knew he was a creep. they knew he liked pretty girls. this is such an entrenched part of the culture that this is the way men behave towards women that i think we've normalized it. >> the weinstein story sent me
back to a gq profile of ted kennedy because i've been thinking about this. there's on the record ak sigsz of him sexually assaulting a waitress there. she's kaultd up into a room. she is tackled on to a table. this is published in gq. and for years conservatives have screamed bloody murder about ted kennedy from chap akwid particular to that and there is some part of people who think but i like ted kennedy and i like his politics and i'm willing to look the other way. i feel like trump, there is some impulse to be like, wait, but he's -- no. it can't be true about him. >> excuse away the worst parts of it but then say well, fine, nobody is perfect. this is not about the moral character. that's the classic bill clinton conundrum and ironically the only person who paid the price was hillary clinton. >> obviously systemic miss on the ground any -- that's why you call it systemic.
but there is in fact a partisan point that i think needs to be made. with we talk about roger ailes or bill o'reilly or donald trump, these men who have these values who treat women this way have become somehow the bloodstream of the modern republican party and it is seen in the policies that they enact that are also intended to make women feel powerless. >> but the argument from conservatives about weinstein and they have been running because they think it val dates him this guy gave a hundreds -- >> gave a few million yon collars. roger ailes became the architect of the modern republican party, the most important piece of infrastructure that they have is fox news. >> i would also invite these conservatives over to feminine land in this universe we've been critiquing -- >> it's the same to say that liberals have excused ted kennedy and bill clinton. if you look hard enough and listen to what fem nisz are saying, present company excluded you can hear there is a critique. it's not a male female thing,
but in a society where men have a monopoly on power and especially in television, in entertainment where very far people have the power to decide whether somebody gets work or not and it's a very subjective assessment where looks are a part of the game -- >> people talk about casting couches like this cartoonish -- >> that's going to happen. but the question is, again, the commonality here is male abuse of power, male monopoly on power. and maybe one party has policies to address that, but no party is immune from that kind of abuse. >> that's very well said. i should say that the sort of feminist writers that i follow, no one is apologizing for harvey weinstein. i think the sangt money of hollywood. there is a lot of people implicated in this in hollywood who knew what was going on and who can be very self-righteous about -- >> i just want to make sure that we turn to the men in hollywood. >> yes. that's right. >> because i'm hearing all of this where is the actresses that
he's worked with, why aren't they saying anything. i don't want to hear from women about the abuse of male power. i want to hear from the men that are most complicit in allowing that kind of thing to happen. >> i want to get your reaction to kellyanne conway. it was sort of bizarre to watch. this was a year ago. i remember when the tape came out. i remember the accusations of the president of the united states, person after person, again. he is accused of sexual assault. he boasted about sexual assault. this is kellyanne conway. it took hillary about five minutes to blame batman's rampage but five days to sort of kind of blame harvey wean steen for his sexual assault. >> sister, you are working for a sexual predator. i don't know where you can get off criticizing anybody for anything in this realm and still look at yourself in the morning. it's just not -- it's so far beyond the pale. i can't even imagine the kind of mental shutting down that she has had to do to be able to comments on a story like thoo while working in a white house for that man. >> well, this is the thing.
nobody does this in a vacuum. so many people didn't come forward is because they owed harvey something, they want something from him or they blamed themselves. >> or they thought would happen to them is what happened to the bem who accused the president of the united states. >> she wore a wire, right. the women who went to the police on the harvey weinstein case, they declined to prosecute despite the fact that he basically admitted on tape that he assaulted her. >> she did everything that you ask of a victim, why didn't you if to the police. she did. >> she went back to him wearing a wire. >> and his legal team smeared her so badly that the cops wouldn't prosecute the case this they understood they already had. >> we went back to look at those rally take place. the president of the united states these women are are liars. exact same playbook we hear time and time again. thank you for your time today. all right. that is all in for in evening.
it emboldened our enemies and look what they've done since then. >> our friends in the region, the saudi's and the israelis never wanted this deal and they are happy it is not being recertified. are you confident that republicans and democrats in congress are going to be able to actually get something done on this in the next 60 days? >> that's the question. there's some great people on the hill that have spoken out about what needs to be done. jesse, what needs to be done you look at the last eight months -- what have the hill where the gop establishment on whether it's obamacare, tax reform -- they have dropped the ball again and again and again, so this is their opportunity to tell the world they are serious as the president is about national security, but it's too early to tell. >> if we scrap the deal altogether come is there anyway to get the billions of cash we gave them back? >> i think that ship has already
left the port. those pallets of cash, the $150 billion, including all the hostage money or the ransom anita was paid -- i mean, we gave the obama administration -- the obama administration unloaded the cash advance, so that money is buying weapons and threatening our friends and troops right now. >> anybody that knows dealmaking, you don't give the cash at the beginning, you get it at the end but obviously that wasn't the case. earlier this week, donald trump smacks down this fake nb nbc reports along the lines of if the president wants to increase the nuclear arsenal by tenfold, he was then asked about it when sitting down with the canadian primprime minister, and here's t he said. >> [inaudible] >> i never discussed the increasing. that was just fake news by nbc,
which gives a lot of fake news lately. i know the capability that we have, believe me. it is awesome. >> the president doubled down network news has become so partisan and fake that licenses must be challenged and if appropriate, revoked, not fair to the public. and of course this sent cnn brian seltzer into a tailspin. >> you could say he's just venting and increasingly angry at the honest accurate coverage of his presidency and white house but we should take his words seriously. he's suggesting that networks, local stations, should have their licenses revoked and presumably given to the pro- trump owners. that is against the first first amendment and against america. it is the talk of an autocrat, not the western democratic leader. >> i don't think the president is going to revoke.
>> does this save honest and accurate -- did he say honest and accurate reporting on the white house? >> yes and that is coming from cnn. >> was that an snl skit? i said all the time when i was in the white house come 80 to 90% of the stuff they wrote about us was either manufactured or 180 degrees opposite of what was going on in the building. we had nine months of russian inclusion made up garbage, and then they spike stories on harvey weinstein sexual predation. it events took a four-star general this thursday chief of staff kellchief ofstaff kelly he press and say guys, why are you doing this because you are just lying? >> you said you don't necessarily make it up, but gets
new forces because they are terrible. >> that is being polite. >> is a very polite guy and did a great job at the briefing. so the president was at the summit, which is a conservative group of people that congregated on in washington. and the war on christmas came up. >> we are getting near the beautiful christmas season that people don't talk about anymore. they don't use the word christmas, because it's not politically correct. you go to department stores and they say happy new year were other things. it doesn't say guess what, we are saying merry christmas again. [cheering] >> shots fired on the war on christmas. doctor gorka, how does this play out? >> doesn't that make you feel good? my boss dumped me from the voter summit. i was supposed to address them today and felt like opening my
speech with merry christmas. it may be october but this is a man, the first time i met him in 2015, i knew donald trump is the kryptonite of political correctness. and he's going to bring it back. we are a judeo-christian country. god bless him, his feed and merry christmas to you. >> and merry christmas to you. i predict the war on christmas is going to be the exact same thing as the nfl dealing controversy. 75% will agree with the president and the hysterical 25% will make themselves look foolish. again, thanks very much for joining us. still i had come is the harvey weinstein disease starting to affect the democratic party? plus, the las vegas massacre generating an insane amount of conspiracy theories. we will be with our experts ne next.ld you are my hammer out there.
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conspiracy theories are running wild. here to break them down is the las vegas police department and the host of blue lives radio, randy. i'm going to start with the first one is swirling around here. the woman who gave an interview with the nbc affiliate -- we can show the video here's what she said. there was a lady that pushed her way forward and started messing with another lady and told us we were all going to die tonight. the reporter said you didn't know why she was saying that come is this after the shots were fired in brianna said it was about 45 minutes before the shots were actually fired but then she was escorted out by security. this is just amazing if it actually happened. what do you think happened?
>> i don't think it happened. if it did happen, that person would have been identified. it would have been questioned by law enforcement and would have been a focus. >> you think the woman is making this up completely out of thin air with the reporter asked you to >> there may have been some disturbance, but i'm not buying it. >> something else very interesting i believe you brought to our attention. the mgm ceo in the weeks leading up to the attack he sold a ton of stock. that's always suspicious when things of this nature have been. why would he be doing that? i'm sure there is a normal reason. >> i think there is a reason, but talk about giving fodder for the conspiracy theory. i mean, you couldn't ask for
anything better. better. let's just feed the sharks. i'm sure there is a legitimate reason. maybe he had to buy the baby new shoes or something. >> that's like when people dump stock right before 9/11 in some industries, it was very suspicious. but it leaves a lot of questions out there. one of the other things i think a lot of people really honed on to at the jump was the isis affiliation. isis immediately taking credit for the attack saying that he converted to six months before and now we see he may have taken some cruises to some middle east locations. do you believe that there is any isis connection? >> i don't think there's been anything that's been said for an isis connection. they are a bunch of leeches. talk about people who are sucking it up for pr. somebody can get killed in oshkosh and they are going to
take credit for it. so i think it's a bunch of garbage. >> and the police are still doing a forensic investigation into his computers, so we don't have that information yet, but so far there is no isis connection. one of the things that interests me, there's been talk about accomplices. there's been talk about second shooters, and people all over the internet say they saw second shooters. if you look at the video -- and now we are hearing about this man employing prostitutes in the days before the attack. do you see any involvement of any other person including the wife or the girlfriend, whoever, that draws your attention? >> not at all. one thing that's interesting about the prostitution angle, a prostitute came forward and said he had violent rape fantasies and considered himself evil. i think that may be more significant than it is being held out to the public.
that does show a very odd personality kind of thing going on. but i do not think there were any shooters. personally, i've gotten some crazy e-mails and messages accusing me of being an accomplice for reporting on this. >> that happens when there is a tragedy, people always look for conspiracies. i was also reading reporting on the prostitution angle. apparently he had told one of the escorts that his father was on the fbi's most wanted list fd he had the bad blood. it could be he just had nasty dna. he is was a suicidal, homicidal maniac that might have ticked down to his bloodstream. but obviously he's an evil person. the last one, the timeline. very confusing. it's now changed three times. the security guard was shot, allegedly, the forehand. then it was afterwards.
then he called in a dead-end call. then the security guard was supposed to do interviews and bailed and no one can find him. what's going on here? >> i think that he was told to shut the hell up is what i think. i think he was ready to come to the studio to do his thing and suddenly moved away by lawyers. i don't think it's going to be mysterious. i think that it was a business decision, if you will. so i think that's the reality. >> because someone at the mgm or the mandalay bay has been out all night figuring out how much money they have to pay in settlements because this thing obviously didn't go well on a number of levels. they also just reported that he checked in on the 28th, then they changed that he checked out on the 25th. they need to get a hold on what actually happened before the
start begin to the public, because i think that is what is bringing out all these conspiracy theories. thank you very much. >> thank you, jesse. >> more disgusting details from sexual predator harvey weinstein. "watters' world" had their own run-in with the producer. plus, al sharpton putting himself in the nfl and some controversy. curt schilling has a take. ♪
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for years, harvey weinstein despicable actions were a dirty secret among the hollywood a-list stars who joked about it. >> i'm not afraid of anyone in show business. i turned down intercourse with harvey weinstein on no less than three occasions. you no longer have to pretend to be attracted to harvey weinstein. >> it seems insiders knew what was going on. nothing came of it. the 2015 nypd operation even had the producer on tape harassing a model. he admitted to groping her the day before. >> please, i'm not going to do anything i swear to my children. >> i'm feeling very uncomfortable right now.
charges were never filed at the time. but that may change. now the fbi has reportedly opened up an investigation as police in new york and london are also taking a fresh look into the allegations. reporters caught up with harvey weinstein at his house. >> i'm not doing okay. i'm trying. i've got to get help. you know, we all make mistakes. >> joining me now to help fill in the blanks, 24/rec seven reporter carlie shimkus. raping a woman is not a mistake. he was also caught giving the finger. i think we have the photo, to the reporters when he was leaving for sex rehab. there he is flipping off reporters. how do you think that he handled this from a pr perspective?
>> you just saw him give the middle finger there. he is very upset, and he should be very upset with his own self inflicted wounds. he lost his job and his wife but those could be the least of his concerns because as you said in the intro, there are criminal charges that could be filed against him in cases in new york city and london. so he could be going to jail. >> speaking of losing his job, there's an interesting thing about his contract they said they put language about not being able to do what? >> this is the smoking gun. tmz reported to harvey weinstein's contract actually a loud sexual misconduct to take place. all he has to do is pay the settlement and then pay to train $250,000 to $1 million to the company and then he would be allowed to keep his job. >> suet insulates him. >> in my opinion, that means
that the weinstein company was profiting off of the instances of sexual assault. also, why would you have that written in your contract if it wasn't already widely known. >> you don't put that in there out of the blue and a lot of board members resigned but they could be facing a legal implications as well if they knew about it and tried to cover it up somehow. so, rose mcgowan has accused him maybe even of raping her and everyone is mad on twitter. >> rose mcgowan is one of the first people to come out against weinstein and has been one of the most vocal out of the accusers. yesterday she went on a twitter tirade and told the amazon studio head i should say, his name is roy, that she was raped and he did nothing about that.
now he's on a leave of absence. there is another allegation against a man that he is now being accused of sexually harassing a woman a few years ago. >> said he is looking up to legal situations. it looks like the cover-up is getting worse and worse. jane fonda as we all know and love, she's been out there first on meghan kelly and now surfaced in this situation and said something like she had been then made aware of this a year ago. but she never said anything. >> i found out about it about a year ago, and i wish that i have spoken out. had spoken out. it didn't happen to me, i didn't want to expose and i will admit i should have been braver. >> now as a woman, you know about something like that, it's complicated, if you don't see anything. did she have good reason not to say anything or hold her tongue?
>> that is a tough situation. the best way that you could put it is no matter how you feel about jane fonda, it wasn't her story to tell. if someone can't fight it in her tummy and who knows maybe she encouraged that women you should say what's going on, it isn't up to her to tell the story. so, i actually think that she is placing blame on herself that she might not -- that might not be warranted. so many women, not just jane fonda that so many other women, and men, said he knew about this. >> i had a little run in with him. i was at a red carpet event after the inauguration and was asking him questions. there'd been a lot of shootings in the country and he put out a lot of movies that have such violence, especially gun violence. so i asked him about that. >> on gun control, do you personally take any responsibility for the
shootings? >> of course not. do you? >> know i'm just saving -- >> so he walks away and comes back when the cameras were off and gets in my face and grabs me by the arm and says that was a bs question and he's in my face right here don't you ever ask me a question like that again. very, very intense moment and i can kind of see the anger in his eyes. it doesn't surprise me what's happening now. >> i feel like we are learning that hollywood is quick to point the correct other people when a lot of the problems are in their own backyard. >> thank you very much. up next, liberal hypocrisy. later, curt schilling, eminem, and donald trump. ♪ s gary? 'saved money on motorcycle insurance with geico.
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authorities in california say they are working on about 300 unresolved missing persons reports due to the catastrophic wildfires that they don't expect a death toll anywhere near that her. now standing at 38. about 100,000 people evacuated so far. hi winds and dry weather continue to pose a threat to containment. more fire crew and equipment staged in the southern part of the state as a precaution. the arts and sciences revoking harvey weinstein membership, a move that is unprecedented. the decision was reached during a session on saturday. the academy released a statement saying that sexual predator behavior in the industry is over. now, back to "watters' world." you are watching fox.
the harvey weinstein scandal and its cover-up and what it means for the democratic party exposing the hypocrisy of hollywood. take hillary clinton it took her five days to respond to the allegations. >> i was just sick. i was shocked and appalled. it was something that was intolerable in every way. you know, like so many people have come forward and spoken out, this was a different side of a person who i and many others had known in the past. >> but she still calls him a friend. >> would you have called him a friend? >> i probably would have come and so what so many others. people in democratic politics for a couple of decades
appreciated his help and support. >> what happens to his political donations? >> would you give the money back? >> there's no one to give it back to. we will donate to charity of course. >> fox contributor tommy, what do you mean there's no one to give it back to? you just write a check back to hollywood. >> we know that hillary struggles with some of these things especially when put in that position. but the funny thing about her comment is that she finds it intolerable. you are still married to bill clinton. apparently you don't find them dot intolerable. >> you believe her when she says that she had no idea about harvey weinstein? >> come on, she just admits we've known each other for decades. i've considered him a friend and many others in the democratic party a friend. of course she knew about it.
everyone knew about it and kept quiet because it didn't fit the narrative and the agenda, it didn't fit their idea of what hollywood is supposed to be and that is the quiet and let them do what they want to do. >> how much damage do you think this does to the democratic party, because weinstein and his money infected everybody at all levels and now there's a little bit of a cover-up going on among possibly the board of the weinstein company, people at amazon who knew about the allegations. do you think that they may suffer from this? >> i don't think they are going to suffer or take accountability unless we hold their feet to the fire and make them discuss this and show the hypocrisy like we are doing right now, because otherwise they will sweep it under the rug and say it's just a bad apple. i'm waiting for more to come out come in at amazon as well, let's see these folks in the liberal elite hollywood circles -- let's
see more people come out, because i have a feeling we will see more in the next couple we. >> every day there's another allegation, and another allegation of a cover-up, speaking of part of the story broke in for the new yorker on msnbc being asked about why they didn't nbc run with the story when he was there and this is what he said. >> i walked into the dover at the new yorker with an explosively reportable piece that should have been public earlier and at the new yorker recognized that and it's not accurate to say that it wasn't reportable, there were multiple sources. >> i'm not saying that they covered it up, but it is suspicious because they have a lot of deals with weinstein, through b-bravo, nbc universal and the fact that they sat on this didn't do anything with it and it broke in the times and right away the new yorker and it makes people think is nbc trying to hide something to preserve
some mulah? >> i have no doubt into the way to get the answer is to ask the question. let's ask when did you know, did you hear about the allegation, why didn't you report, why has it taken this long? let's keep asking until we get answers. >> i think the when did you know, what did you know, that question needs to be asked and there will be more litigation to expose the cover-up of what people knew and when they knew it, and people will have to start paying a lot of money because it is getting worse and worse and worse. we had a theory the other day, if hillary clinton had won the presidency, this story never would have seen the light of day because it would have been so damaging to her, her husband, that it wouldn't have been reported, but now that donald trump became president, it was
easier to report. do you buy into that theory? >> i due in part, but i've got to ask you, jesse, what hasn't she been able to get away with and would it be damaging to her in deleting 33,000 e-mails and was a damaging in bill clinton and his history was a damaging? what more could she do that she hasn't gotten away with? i don't think it would matter, she's getting away with it now. she isn't being held accountable by her own party. we are the only ones doing it. >> someone who calls herself a feminist and champion of women's rights, what would you like to see her do with the weinstein scandal in hollywood? it seems like there's a lot of opportunity for mrs. clinton to make some change in her own backyard. >> well maybe not wait five days to make a statement through your spokesperson, maybe not just call it disgusting five days
later. the time is past for that. but i would like to see what she's going to do with that money. what charity? she's taken a lot of money from people questionable. what's she doing with the money? and moving forward, if there are more people in the inner circle that seem to have a problem, we know anthony wiener, she had to know about that. i want to see her come forth and expose more of her inner circle and then maybe i will give her more credit. >> i know which charity she will give the weinstein money to come of the clinton foundation. >> is a safe bet. >> thank you, tomi lahren. and espn anchor calls it a slave master. curcurt schilling well named the winners and losers and and some controversy. later president of trump working on his pronunciation.
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will not play, period. we are going to respect the flag and create the perception of it. president trump was grateful for the position but not everyone was. we recently made headlines and they called for a boycott of the dallas cowboys advertisers as payback for the patriotism. espn suspended the anchor for two weeks. al sharpton and espn michael will. >> suspicion in many ways in that mentality. the word that comes to my mind coming and i don't care who doesn't like it is plantation. the players are here to serve me and they will do what i want no matter how much i pay them, they are not equal to me. >> joining me now to discuss the world series champ, curt
schilling. there's no slaves or slaveowners in this country, and these guys sign contract. they are dying to get into the nfl and jerry jones pays them a fortune. he isn't a scrappy owner and he's giving second chances with ridiculous rap sheets. to say that he has a plantation mentality, what is going on? >> it's the left playing the race card once again. al sharpton has been a race fraud his whole life. go no further than the duke lacrosse case to find out what kind of a man al sharpton is. and i'm so disappointed with michael, what the hell would he know about the plantation mentality? here's the thing all of a sudden these owners, jerry jones could
be in any crisis. when you work for people it doesn't matter what your salary is, when you are employed by somebody else, they get to make the rules. if you don't like them, go somewhere else or get fired. i was fired from espn because i'm a conservative and i made the offense claim that men should use the men's room to urinate, and jerome hill was suspended for hitting the nfl and espn in the wallet because -- [inaudible] >> money talks and his whole life question. and bosses can tell in employer to do anything. they tell you when to smile, went to eat, how to talk to a customer, when to dance, how to dance, how to dress. why is that okay, but in the nfl, bosses if they tell in them for you to do something all of a sudden it's racist? >> it's the beauty of capitalism that when you are in the private
sector you get to make the rules. and if you are a racist business owner and espouse racist practices than the market can shut you down because customers will not shop at your store. there are no covered only bathrooms anymore, it's not like that. there's always going to be racism in the corn petition, but for people to continue to push the issue, let's be very clear about something, the hand of don't move movement that started was a lie. it is a complete fabrication. never happened. the four women on cnn with their hands uprooting the officer and his wife who was a police officer as well because he shot a felon. the narrative that -- here is what i keep asking. what are you kneeling down for? there is no disproportionate level of violence from police officers to black youth.
it's not true. now that's not to say that the ferguson police department was not correct, and i'm sure that there are things around the country that needs to be fixed. the fact is from the obama administration and all sharpton and all of these civil rights people to turn their backs on our law-enforcement officers is as repulsive -- and i still believe they have blood on their hands from a lot of these murders and assassinations that have happened. >> you and i agree. it is a noble thing if you want to protest and injustice for the police brutality, there's bad apples in every industry but to do it at any time we were supposed to be respecting law enforcement and respecting the men and women that are serving overseas, to protect your rights, not the right time to do it. i've got to run, thank you very much. >> up next, eminem lashes out on president trump. ♪ i don't want to sound paranoid, but d'ya think
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nobody'nobody's doing that, nobs calling him orange like he just did. he's an irrelevant wifebeating win, that's what he is. it's already documented in his songs, he raps about raping and punching women and now he is a snowflake running in sweatpants over president donald trump. he's got a big mouth and small pair. [laughter] you know who he should go after, kid rock. he loves donald trump and his his neighbor and he might hit back. >> maybe he should run against kid rock for senate. >> he's too stupid. >> albright. i'm a safe space in a parking garage and stay there and hope you never run into each other. so, donald trump kicks off national hispanic heritage month and have some fun when he tried to pronouns or mispronounce the island of puerto rico.
>> we are also praying for the people of "pwerto rico." and we also love puerto rico. so he's just having a lot of fun but he caught a lot of heat for that. he's funny. first that's why people like him because he's got a big smile afterwards. other people its outrage. if you go to new york city like the president, you love puerto ricans, they are the life of the city. >> how do you say it? >> puerto rico. >> sometimes on the red carpet this week, a mexican soap star slapped a reporter in the face when asked a question. check this out.
>> [speaking spanish] >> that was eduardo. basically that is the war on the press. you are right about that. that is a microcosm of what trump has been doing. >> that is like the cnn rustling. it was on the red carpet they asked a question, personal question and he got mad so he hit him i guess. the red carpet almost got a lot more red. it's a metaphor about things like that. sometimes they step out of line. i'm not saying that he deserved it, but it happens. they don't like to call him and get him into the octagon. that was a slap. >> no one has ever done that to
you? >> i would have deserved it if i did. >> that's true. the next which celebrities do i look like? we will show you after the break coming up. ♪ 9 out of 10 couples prefer a different mattress firmness, so we created the only bed that adjusts on both sides to your ideal comfort, your sleep number setting. you can even see how well you're sleeping and make adjustments. does your bed do that? the most amazing part is they start at $699. that's $200 off our queen c2 mattress during the final days of our fall sale. ends sunday. visit sleepnumber.com for a store near you steve chooses to walk over the26.2 miles,9 days... that's a marathon. and he does it with dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl's. born to move.
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why is that? is he couldn't ihe couldn'ting. >> he seems to be the person that makes donald trump the most nervous. all of those stay strong, he drnt wadidn't want to fire him. but i think that is looming out there. so you have this committee that is chaired by jeff sessions where the gentleman who was in charge of it recruits in papadopoulous and he is now actually also talking to at least the senate committees and probably to mueller's team as well, you have this team that now seems to be kind of in low customer of the contacts with russia in addition to trump jr., to kushner and others.locust of russia in addition to trump jr., to kushner and others. but carter page overnight is now saying that shortly after his trip to russia to meet with russian officials in july of
2016, which we now learn he did meet with russian high official, not just university officials or whatever he was trying to say before, but shortly after the trip, he sentd an e-mail to one aide describing insights he had. and we now know that he was copied on e-mails that george papadopoulous sent regarding his contacts with moscow. it starts to look like we're circling around what could be collusion. is there is a crime in any of that multiple contacts with a foreign government? >> you know, when the other guests talked about presidents being subject to interviews by the fbi, you have to give a shout out to barack obama. he's the only president since richard nixon who has not been questioned in a federal criminal investigation. carter page, again, ryan, all of these people who seem low level who president trump denies knowing or tries downplay,
mueller is circling around them. they are the little fish designed to deliver the big fish. what do we know about george papadopoulous? we know he got arrested in august and he was cooperating with mueller since then, but we didn't find out about that until monday. so i think it's safe to assume that these other little fish like carter page might be cooperati cooperating. certainly mueller will try to turn mr. ryan who was arrested along with mr. manafort as kind of manafort's boy, he's his associate, so he will be relatively easy i think to get to cooperate with the government. he might give up the goods on people like his boss manafort. that's how these cases are made. i always say it's like law and order, the tv the show, where investigators go office to office asking questions building clues that ultimately leads them
to the big kahuna. >> and that of course is the president of the united states. and liz bet, thelizabeth, that k to trump's consistent desire to get rid of mueller. he ultimately fired james comey. he can't outright fire mueller. he would have to get the deputy attorney general to do it who said he one of the. you now have members of congress introducingdema demanding that robert mueller resign on his own based on this. there are human rule others that steve bannon is encouraging trump to defund mueller's investigation. can any of these attempts be seen on the impeachment side or in a legal sense? >> well, i think that they are
getting into deep water if they try to do that. i think both on a criminal sense and certainly on an impeachment sense. remember we go back to watergate, it was the firing of the special prosecutor archibald cox because he was about to get the tapes, wanted to get the tapes that was going to prove whether richard nixon was guilty or not of a crime. got fired. that produced huge public outcry and led to nixon's downfall. so any kind of fooling around with mueller has the danger of triggering public outrage and anxious impeachment. but it also could be obstruction of justice. just because he's the president and has the power to fire or not fire or whatever that power is, if he does it for the reason of covering up, then we are in obstruction territory in my view. >> and nick, what about if he starts pardoning people, what if
donald trump who i think frank makes a good point, is probably very much in fear of what mike flynn might say, if he sees jared kushner potentially getting in trouble, what if he starts pardoning people, is that obstruction? >> certainly could be obstruction because if he does it with the intent to obstruct the investigation and get rid of it because it is honing in on him, sure. that is obstruction. but don't forget the indictment that mueller came down with is for money laundering. money laundering is a crime in new york state. tax evasion is a crime in new york state. so trump is going to have a problem doing any pardons here. he can't pardon for new york state lieus. some of the new york state laws are more potent and may be more applicable to what happened here than would be some of the federal laws. so he is not in a great position, mr. trump. >> let's remember attempts to pardon or promises of pardons to the watergate burglars by nixon was one of the articles for
grounds for impeachment. >> let's say manafort or papadopoulous got pardoned. would they then go before an fbi agent to be interviewed, can they assert their fifth amendment right? >> they can, but that would take the legs right out from under the fbi interview and i agree with the others, the president is teetering on obstruction of justice. remember obstruction requires just because the president can do something doesn't mean that it's not illegal. if he's doing it to avoid in-cell natuin incriminating himself, that is obstruction. >> and paul, do you see an obstruction of justice case coming out of mueller's office? >> it's certainly possible. mueller is the most powerful person in the district of columbia. so yeah, there is grounds there if it will happen, it won't be impeachment, that is political, but the nation turns its eyes to roberts mueller. >> all right.
thank you all. great panel. up next, new details on how russia gate may have started in the first place. as master sergeant. they really appreciate the military family, and it really shows. we've got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. had an accident with a vehicle, i actually called usaa before we called the police. usaa was there hands-on very quick very prompt. i feel like we're being handled as people that actually have a genuine need. we're the webber family and we are usaa members for life. usaa, get your insurance quote today. people are fighting type 2 diabetes... with fitness... food... and the pill that starts with f. farxiga, along with diet and exercise, helps lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. lowering a1c by up to 1.2 points. do not take if allergic to farxiga. if you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction
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missing e-mails which a lot of republicans including donald trump clearly believed russia had. and if we look at this development in the context of a longer timi time line, it's cle the hunt for russians with dirt on hillary clinton was a recurring theme in the trump campaign. let's go back to march 19, 2016 when russian operatives first hacked lits campaign chairman john podesta's e-mail account which did not become public knowledge until wikileaks released those e-mails in october. a month after the podesta hack in april of 2016, the democratic national committee first learned that russian government hackersr network and that became known in june. and we now know that during that same month, on april 26, trump campaign adviser george papadopoulous met in london with a profession on or who claimed to have contacts with russian government officials who were in
possession of dirt on hillary clinton in the form of thousands of e-mails. about two weeks later, on may 9, fox news analyst andrew napolitano goes on fox news and makes a similar claim about russians with clinton's e-mails. then a month after that, donald trump jr. starts his own search for that dirt when on june 3 he gets an efts ma-mail from rob goldstone who promises information from high level russian officials that would incriminate clinton and be useful to his father's campaign. to that donald jr. responds if it's what you say, i love it. six days later, donald trump jr., paul manafort and jared kushner attend the trump tower e-mail set up that meeting. and on that same day, whenever
the brurussians were offering, father tweeted at clinton where are your 33,000 e-mails that you deleted. and a month later on july 27, trump made that request directly to the russians when he said during a news conference russia if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. fast forward again to september over labor day weekend when the "wall street journal" reports yet another quest for russia access to clinton e-mails that got under way. peter w. smith told the "journal" that he began seekinging tseeking the e-mails he believed to be stolen. smith was found dead of apparent suicide weeks after he talked with the "journal." those efforts to get clinton's e-mails ultimately amounted to a fool's errands because here is the thing, there never has been any evidence that russians are or anyone else ever successfully hacked hillary clinton's private e-mail servers.
or that anybody russian or otherwise ever actually had her deleted e-mails. in fact hillary clinton might have been alone among the dnc, john podesta and even some state and federal government agencies in not being successfully hacked. go figure. and up next, my panel weighs in on whether the russians baited the hook by planting a clever fiction about having hillary clinton's e-mails in order to gain access and influence with donald trump and members of his campaign. stay with us. welcome! how's it going? hi!
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were in possession of quote/unquote dirt on hillary clinton. joining me now is malcolm nance and sarah kensior. we've been on the air together i believe now since last july. >> yes. >> essentially telling the same story over and over again. >> every day. >> and when you first heard and you write in your book the plot to hack america about that andrew innapolitano clip that happened sort of out of the blue in april of last year, when you heard andrew napolitano say that, what did you think? >> in fact i came on msnbc that week to address that statement. because it was impossible. what they were saying was it napolitano had u.s. intelligence sources that were saying that he had information from the kremlin of an internal debate between vladimir putin, his senior staff about should they release 20,000
hacked hillary clinton e-mails. i said that level of intelligence is just impossible to have. >> how would he be saying it? >> he got from a website called what does it mean.com that had put it out and ittedit had a myl character who was a conduit of information from other russian sources that put this story into that conspiracy theory blog site and it made its way to napolitano and then on 27 july it made its way to donald trump. >> and we know that donald trump and the people who like donald trump are avid viewers of fox news. so to you does it make sense that if the kremlin wanted to plant the fictitious idea that they had the 20,000 to 30,000 e-mails that hillary clinton deleted because they were personal or whatever when her state department e-mails were turned over, that if they wanted to plant that, this would be the way to do it? put it on a website, that fox
news picks it up and it's now in the bloodstream. is that a typical way that the kremlin would brate? operate? >> yeah, and that kind of intent would be not just to reach people in the trump campaign, but to reach republicans in general, the trump bhas. and to kind of make this narrative, you know, resonate in american society. i tend to think though that if the kremlin wanted to talk to the trump campaign, they could have easily gone through paul manafort or other people in that campaign who had direct connections to the kremlin. so i don't think they necessarily needed to circumvent it for that particular reason. >> that is a question. you have carter page walking off the street and joinings rump foreign policy team, george papadopoulous who was a low level sort of guy, 29, walk in become a part of the inner sort of foreign policy team of the campaign, and then announce i'm going to on mos moscow, i can g vladimir putin in the room with donald trump. there seemed to be a lot of
people who were pedaling connections to the kremd lynnce contin cekremlin or putin. >> and i've said there will be multiple dirty tricks teams who had independent access or so they thought to information that russia was dangling in front of them. interesting about the whole 20,000 hillary clinton e-mails thing, it comes ten months after the russians initially hacked the dnc, which means their information warfare management team had already had the information they wanted, they needs to now plus up all of their, you know, their surrogates for surrogate surrogates to feed to donald trump. and worked. papadopoulous, maybe carter page, maybe mike flynn and through man for thafort.
all can be completely independent and then come together once it reaches donald trump or donald trump jr. >> and do you assume that the russians were lying, that they were just saying that they had these missing e-mails in order to dangle that possibility and draw in trump campaign people? >> i don't have to assume. we already know that now. because if they had had those e-mails, they would have been out years ago. but again, this came from russian sources. and there is no way anyone would ever know what was being said inside the office of vladimir putin. if that was a u.s. intelligence source, that person would have died with that information. and to leak it out to some obscure website and then shows up on fox news? that tells you you the russians injected it into the bloodstream. >> and do you think the american media needs to do some soul searching here? because all of this information couldn't have survived if it didn't have the oxygen of media interest in the e-mails as a source of news and information.
it wasn't just the conspiracy theorists that were hungry for the e-mails, it was us, the media. >> slooutsly they beabsolutely responsibility for that. a lot of this goes back to kind an obsession with hillary clinton with the false assumption that hillary clinton was bound to win the election so they could spend their time on matters like the ec males. there were also financial improprieties that were happening with the trump campaign that went unexamined. it doesn't take a genius to know that the media will bite on any kind of anti-hillary clinton story. so of course the skrkremlin wou peddle it in that way. it appeals to some of the bernie sanders voters and a lot of the public in general. so a smart move on their part, but the media should have paid more attention and done a better job. >> and is this the most
successful intelligence operation in at least modern kremlin history? >> i'm tempted to say it's the most successful intelligence operation in the history of the world. and i'm a scholar in this and i know people who are very, very close to this who were real time participants and they say that the russians apparently got their hooks into another country that has atomic bombs. but do you know who warned us? hillary clinton. >> she did. there is a lengthy video that you did can find online. nobody listened. thank you both very much. and coming up, why the republicans just can't quit donald trump.
and removing a dangerous president, then what has our government become? i'm tom steyer, and like you, i'm a citizen who knows it's up to us to do something. it's why i'm funding this effort to raise our voices together and demand that elected officials take a stand on impeachment. a republican congress once impeached a president for far less. yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. more than a year into this story of russian attacks on our election and as the scope of the official inquiries widen, one
thing that has remained completely consistent besides donald trump's denials that there was ever any collusion has been the attitude of republicans when it comes to russian interference and that includes the rnc. for a lot of democrats, that is a sign of not just party loyalty to trump, but something worse. complicity with what russia did. back on october 18, on 2016, three weeks before the election, then chair of the dnc donna brazile wrote a letter to reince priebus offering to brief the rnc on the details of the dnc hack and asking that the parties issue a joint statement on the russia attack in an effort to affirm legitimacy of the process. this is 11 days before they officially accused russia government of trying to interfere in the election. and it got drowned out by the "access hollywood" tape. but there was no bipartisan
effort, no united front. we reached out to the rnc for comment. a spokesman pointed out that in july of 2016, priebus said he would be concerned if it were true that russians were behind the dnc hack and he also made comments denouncing the hack of e-mails. but republicans never responded. joini joining me now are former strategists, and a former ethics lawyer. and joel, you were on the clinton campaign. i don't know if you recall this letter that was sent out, i have a copy of it here. and in it, donna brazile starts off saying, you know, we challenged both parties to focus on the integrity of the election day process. she goes in to this question of russia hacking and asks let's stand together and help each over. do you recall any response whatsoever coming from the rnc? >> zero.
no response at all. maybe something happened, but i haven't heard anybody say there was a response. i haven't heard anybody from the rnc say there was. and she also outlined several other steps she wanted to take where they would make a statement jointly about five or six steps that had to be taken and radio silence, nothing. >> i will say that we reached out on to the rnc and we did speak somebody close to the situation or knowledgeable about the situation. and they said one possible explanation for why there wasn't a response is that this letter starts off talking about the russian interference, the e-mails warning that we can put a subject matter expert in place, let's brief each other, but then it goes in to things like the voting rights. and we all know most of us that the rnc is under a concept decree since the 1980s in which they are not allowed to touch anything involving election integrity because they
committed -- how shall we say they were attempting to interfere with the right to vote. >> yes. >> could it be that they didn't respond to the letter because donna brazile went beyond russia and talked about these other things? >> it could be, but for example around that time marco rubio if you recall said hey, today it's the democrats, tomorrow it could be us. and people like rick perry said i don't care what he has to say. people close to trump were putting up their hands saying we don't want go near this. >> and simon, you have written for u.s. news and world report back in april, you said the rnc was at the center of the penetration of trump's campaign by the russian government and nomination and use of russian information. what do you mean by that? >> it's clear that every single day of the general election the rn krm rnc put out a press release bloatings wikileaks releases and amplifying the russian campaign
and encouraging other people to use this thing -- to use these things every day. it was critical to the normalization of the use of this which became common with the media themselves. i mean imagine if the rnc had said we have doubts about this wikileaks stuff, we don't want to on toutouch it, we're patrio partisans and we don't want to put it in the bloodstream of the ecosystem, no question that reince priebus and sean spicer's embrace of the russian campaign was country ritical to its succ. collusion has been established. we know this took place. and i think far more scrutiny has to be placed in us looking at the role that the republican party infrastructure itself prayed in the supray prayed played in the success of this russian meddling. >> and republicans were very cold to the idea of joining with democrats and really actively condemning what russia was doing.
this is a clip where they referenced the "post" piece. it says in august when the obama administration quietly approached capitol hill to seek bipartisan support, cia director john brennan couldn't get top republicans to meet with him. we learned when a they sat down, they completely refused to cooperate. and when jeh johnson contacted people in charge of elections in various states, the republicans in those states booed him off. were republicans essentially willing to benefit from russian interference and essentially refusing to join with democrats out of pure partisanship over really concern for national security? >> well, it's unfortunate that, you know, when he wanted to privately meet with some key republicans to discuss the issue, it's unfortunate that they didn't want to meet.
now, you've got -- we all know that there is bad blood between republicans and democrats on the fact that donna brazile had tried to approach rins somethin do, i can see where reince priebus probably wasn't thrilled to meet with donna braille brazil on how to combat the russian hack. it's true marco rubio tried to.l on how to combat the russian hack. it's true marco rubio tried to. but to look further into this, the rnc should have been more proceed active on looking at it, but what about the fecle and what about t what about the ads that were let loose todemocrats and republicans on facebook, on twitter?about the ads that were loose to hurt both democrats and republicans on facebook, on twitter? this is how some of the hate groups got out. and we say a lot of the evidence
that russian advertisers were playing in our elections to get the right and left entangled in a bitter war. so the rnc maybe should have been more proactive, you're right, but what about the fec and what about getting them to get a little bit more reactive and a little bit more proactive in trying to prevent some of this. >> richard, i think there are a lot of democrats doing soul searching and wishing that the obama administration had been more aggressive, but we have examples in other countries of the same thing happening, the same ad, hacking against e-mails. there was an aggressive attempt to hack into the e-mails of the french candidates. hackers came after them you about but the french were prepared. we had fin land and estonia also
attacked. but the difference is that in those countries and germany and other places, both of the political parties came together and were very public about saying we don't care who wins, we don't want russia involved. and they were very proactive. and so wasn't it incumbent on the republicans to be as alarmed as democrats about an attack on our country? >> well, of course. russians have been do this for 100 years and they supported far left wing communist parties all over the world with some success in some places and you now it's these right wingnuts and so-called religious conservatives that they support and ku klux klan elements in the united states, bright bhart nre news and the rest of it. it's a serious threat to the united states governmentght bre news and the rest of it. it's a serious threat to the united states government and all
americans should be united in opposing this. and conservative voters are not going to tolerate elected officials and other political operatives in the republican party who persist in this coverup and the people for example stooeeve bannon and tho types who are encouraging president trump to fire robert mueller who would be an additional act of ob strubs estf justice. so it's important to distinguish from the extremist elements and the traditional conservatives who have no tomorrlerance of th russian clab rollaborate tors i our government. we have strongly committed to the independence of our own country. we won't allow russia to take advantage of racial animosities
and other issues that we have to deal with in this country in order to dominate us and that is exactly what has happened here and the trump white house is persistent in a coverup rather than allowing robert mueller to complete his investigation. >> very quickly, simon, you've been talking about this for quite some time, i take it your view is that none of those wings stood up to the russians? >> right. and in fact the rnc was critical in the russian operation succeeding. i mean there was active collusion. they all knew this was coming from russia. that is what was established this week. they knew as early as april, may, june that russia was attempting to get involved in the elections here in the united states. think about what happened the day after the republican convention ended, wikileaks released their dnc e-mails and caused the dnc chairman the day before the convention began to resign and created enormous chaos. are you telling me the trump campaign didn't know that was coming from russia? they all knew.
>> and there hasn't been a lot of honesty about what people knew i think is clear. thank you simon, richard and know noelle. noelle. oelle. noelle. (honking) (beeping) we're on to you, diabetes. time's up, insufficient prenatal care. and administrative paperwork, your days of drowning people are numbered. same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face.
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>> 45 years ago the first indictments were handed down in the watergate scandal. less than two months later president nixon was reelected in a landslide, carrying every single state except massachusetts and washington, d.c. you did have this lingering support for richard nixon, even after you had those indictments. why is that? >> why did nixon still have support? >> why did he seem to have such robust support? >> he was a radically popular president at this point in time, winning the reelection that you just mentioned. i think the republican party saw the possibilities of him being a great leader for the country. so i think that mr. republicans kind of callied around michd x richard nixon. >> you see the break-in of the
dnc physically during watergate and virtually through the e-mails by russian hackers. but you have a very different response from republican leadership. there seems to be a great wariness of watergate among senior level republicans in congress. now they don't seem to care all that much. is that a radical shift in the republican party itself or is it richard nixon inspired dread among his allies on the hill? >> no. i thit's ramped up partisanship that's driving what's going on right now. you hear from corker, you hear from flake. you sometimes hear from mccain that there are people who are kind of peeling off the president who are also republicans. that was nixon's biggest fear was that what was going to happen as things were started to be investigated was that people would peel off. for instance, john dean, his white house counsel say there is's a cancer surrounding the
presidency as early as january of '73. that's the fear that's going on. one of the things to keep in mind is that richard nixon as far as his persona goes is somewhat similar to donald trump. there's a real paranoia. there's a real desire for unity at all costs. thinking of any sort of protest as disloyal and infusing disloyalty within the nation. so i mean, i do think there's some parallels here between the two personas of the presidents carrying out both of these crises. the thing to watch, though, would be how many other republican senators start to break with the president. that's quite significant. >> when you talk about the similarities between nixon and trump, there's a certain kind of paranoia. a lot of people are looking at donald trump and seeing a kind of unraling in the way he's behaving publicly. what was nixon's mental state as
watergate was closing in on him? >> this is a debate historians have with themselves an awful lot. there's certainly a kind of feeling that nixon had something of a break down in the white house even before watergate but certainly around watergate he became extremely defensive. he became more warrior like which is i think a quality that he shares with our current sitting president. he certainly had something of a breakdown and was increasingly paranoid. there are allegations that alcohol was shofed in this. we don't necessarily have complete and complete evidence for that. but there certainly seemed to be something of a fall-apart on him as he watches people peel off the administration, people turn on him, people start speaking about what's going on within the white house and of course once the tapes get announced, he becomes increasingly paranoid and kind of prone to see this as a conspiracy against him and as
a victim. >> absolutely. paranoia was certainly the watch word of the day . it might be again. there's so much more coming up. keep it right here on mst nbc be has been excellent. they always refer to me as master sergeant. they really appreciate the military family, and it really shows. we've got auto insurance, homeowners insurance. had an accident with a vehicle, i actually called usaa before we called the police. usaa was there hands-on very quick very prompt. i feel like we're being handled as people that actually have a genuine need. we're the webber family and we are usaa members for life. usaa, get your insurance quote today.
most tumultuous years in american history. his legacy of connecting to americans across race, class and political lines is especially notable in today's hyper partisan age. and considering that the current occupant of the white house regularly says things like that. >> you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. wouldn't you love to see one of these nfl owners when somebody disrespects our flag to say, get that son of a bitch off the field. i'm the only one that matters. when it comes to it, that's what the policy is going to be. >> joining me now chris matthews. i always love talking to you, chris, and reading your books. this one because you are such a scholar on the kennedy family, you write so beautifully about them. it's an interesting time for it to come out.
there are beautiful photos in it. >> doesn't that grab you? this is something that's -- it's the african-americans singing at the baltimore train station the battle hymn of the republic. there's such a statement in that guy. he obviously was in the military as an unlisted guy. he's very poor and yet he had belief in bobby as a patriot. i think both communities trusted him. the 60s were rough and they're still rough. you it shows what you can do with the racial divide this this country. bobby tried to bring people together. >> let me play one clip. this is bobby kennedy talking to african-americans about his own brother's assassination.
a. >> for those of you who are black and are attempted to be filled with hatred and distrust of the injustice of such an act against all white people, i would only say that ki also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. i had a member of my family killed. he was killed by a white man. but we have to make an effort in the united states. we have to make an effort to understand. go beyond these rather difficult times. >> that of course was the night that martin luther king, jr. was assassina assassinated. you have somebody who is white, irish guy from massachusetts, who's able to people with such moral authority to african-americans. there's no one that can do that. >> thanks to working with nbc, i was able to get the tapes.
the police wouldn't go into that neighborhood. they left him alone. it was a tough neighborhood and they didn't know what was going to happen. bobby said, do they know you and the guy says no. there's no twittering, no e-mail or anything. they didn't know and he had to tell them. some of the people were still cheering him because they were just reacting to his presence, they weren't hearing his words. it gets back to what i believe in this book, is that this story of bobby kennedy is the spirit that survives the 60s, the spirit that could work. he said we have to make an effort. that's all he's saying, just make an effort. i think that what this president does -- i only call -- race is the san andreas fault in this country. he jumps on it. squeeze a few more votes out of the guys guys taking a knee. he always tries to find
something wreck get his 40%. that's all he wants. in the electoral college that's enough. let the 60% -- just discard them. >> i love the way you write about the kennedys. there is sort of a gallant narrative with the kenties. they were tough. >> don't you miss them? >> they were with joe mccarthy, right? >> i'll tell you about joe. it is a lot about the thing you mentioned, the irish thing. i grew up like that. my mom was very pro mccarthy. my dad said he went too far. bobby loved the guy. he drank himself to death. he abused witnesses. he used all kinds of tactics. bobby swore i'm never going to do that again. in fact, bobby wrote the resolution for the democrats condemning his friend. but yet at the end he went to
the funeral, he went to the grave site. he hid in the car to show his respect. never got out of the car. i got this from his daughter kathleen. when he heard at national airport that mccarthy had died, he was so distraught that he drove around the airport three times. he loved the guy and yet he knew -- bobby learned people you love can be wrong and can be the bad guy. that is real maturity. i think learning is politics. political career is essentially a learning career. it's like being a dentist. you've got to keep up. this guy trump is groundhog day. every morning is the same tweet. he never matures.
he never learns anything about race or people or foreign policy. it's the same. bobby is always studying civil rights, getting pushed around by james baldwin and his crowd up here in new york. he just took it. he said, you know, if i were them i'd be like this. and he went to his brother a week later and said we've got to do the civil rights thing. bobby did that. >> he was i think for a lot of african-americans the more heroic kennedy. >> his top aide had a lead pipe bashed over his head. >> can you speculate just based on having written this biography, what would have been different about america if bobby kennedy had lived and become president? >> you know, a lot of this i think broke bad president '70s.
let's talk progressive politics for a minute. the only way you get pregnantive action is if the communities hurt by injustice and all the systems that are rigged -- you know how the market works. the money's been taken out of the market before you even invest. so in the early '70s it all became social issues. we all started the joining archie bunker. let's make fun of him and let's make his son-in-law the smart one. so the sbekt actual is the good guy. but the character was sort of ridiculous. why are you living here not making any money and i'm pulling the train here? and then it began that reagan came along. he scooped up all the discarded white working class. you don't like the democrats anymore? come on home. i'm a patriot. when all this stuff kept getting
worse and worse on the social issues, they're legitimate issues. and choice of course became a big issue among the conservative catholics. all of a sudden the country is divided socially rather than economically. i think we're better off when we're divided by economics. that way if you're making 30 or 40 a year and you want to get a break, you would actually vote together. you may not hang out together, but you'll vote together. i think that's broken now. you've got union guys voting for trump. he's not building. he said he was going to rebuild america. where? why don't we go back to rebuilding this country congresswomen roosevelt built it. lincoln built during the civil war. do it. we built the empire state
building in the middle of the depression. we need a system of rapid rail across this country. put every construction trade -- they'd be the happiest construction trades in history. they'd all be working. stop giving tax breaks to the rich and start spending it. that's an old liberal argument. >> i wonder if projecting forward to 2020, i almost feel that the only thing that could sort of beet the nihilism of donald trump is nostalgia. will it take a kennedy or something like that to beat donald trump? >> you could says no tall ja abo -- nostalgia about jesus too. most of the time his heart was out there.
and i think that we have to make an effort and we don't anymore. i think whoever the democratic candidate is next time, it's got to be somebody who hasn't discarded the white working class. it has to be somebody who doesn't go to carol king concerts all day. bruce springsteen maybe. i'm dead serious about this. once you start saying i'm better than you, i went to a really good school, they get the message. a guy i was in the peace corps with said people don't mind being used, they mind being discarded. i think the white working class today feels they've been discarded by the democrats. >> this is a grandson in the lineage of bobby kennedy. i wonder what you think of him and how he's coming along
politically. >> it's hard to stomach a trillion dollar tax cut being proposed to benefit wealthy adults at the same time that our republican colleagues are telling us we can't afford to care for sick kids. it's hard to stomach indifference from this chamber as chip lapsed. >> he seems more like prince harry, doesn't he? >> he's a ginger. >> he's great. he's got it all. he did the peace corps, which is very important to me. he went to law school and worked as a local prosecutor. that's the kennedy route. he didn't jump ahead of the line and say give me what i have a right to. i think he's got it. long before he becomes a senator or president, we've got to restore the spirit. i think a lot of people my age who were in the peace corp with me really do feel that spirit of bobby kennedy.
it's not so much the book that i'm out there promoting. it's him. it's bobby and that spirit of we can work together. look at him. i used -- he would say compassionate. that's what we need. that's what we need. we need maybe a shorter word for it, but looking out for other people. the trump is not that american really if you think about it. not that way. >> it's hard to see how we go back to this era. >> i think a picture is worth a thousand words. that picture and this picture on the cover of those kids looking to him as hope. we don't have that right now. >> we don't. coming up, twitter boots one of their biggest trolls, next.
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trump asked me to get involved because my reputation among other things in politics is understanding of the convention process, the delegate process and most of the major successful big conventions over the last 30 years i've been intimately involved in. >> did roger recommend you for the job? >> roger was one of the two or three people who strongly recommended me, yes. >> did he bring you in? >> no. not at all. >> last friday night paul manafort's long time friend and partner roger stone went ballistic on twitter.
we've had you on before. we brought you back because i feel like your documentary is in a lot of ways the best explainer of donald trump and the nexus between him, roger stone and paul manafort. briefly explain what that connection is. >> so paul manafort and roger stone go back to the early '80s with donald trump. donald trump was was their client at black, manafort and stone. roger stone was literally the first person to suggest to trump to run for the presidency. he spent 29 years as trump's closest political advisor, cultivating him for the white house. >> he kind of talks about roger stone as sort of a nixon. this is donald trump from your documentary get me roger stone, talking about donald trump.
take a listen. >> i was like a jockey looking for a horse. can't win the race if you don't have a horse. i interceded with the portsmouth new hampshire chamber of commerce to arrange a lunch. the helicopter landing was as big a news as his speech. this is kind of the first time i saw the power of trump, the public interest in trump was palpable, electric. >> what do you think roger stone wants from all of this? what does he want from donald trump's presidency? >> roger and a lot of the political consultants have a long history of taking things that have worked in the past and fitting them for the modern era. what he saw in donald trump was to take all the things that worked with richard nixon and ronald reagan and he saw trump had the ability to turn it all into a great tweet and to modernize it. he saw his charisma and over the
years helped teach him the methods to turn that charisma into the presidency. >> he shares with donald trump a certain attitude toward life, a certain penchant for conspiracy theories. he wrote an entire book sort of putting forward his theory that lyndon johnson killed jfk. he believes in these conspiracy theorie theories. he and donald trump are burters. it is kind of destabilizing to think this is who's running the country. you look at roger stone, you're pretty much seeing donald trump. >> right. what paul manafort says in the film is that even though it's a trump presidency, it's influenced by stone philosophy. what we found in studying roger stone's career and relating it to donald trump is that trump doesn't have an ideology so much as a political philosophy. and that philosophy is win at all costs and that correlates
also to nixon. of course roger stone started what richard nixon at the age of 19 and was the youngest person called before the watergate grand jury and now of course is involved in russia gai russia-gate. >> we spend four years chasing paul manafort for an interview and we were actually the last people to interview him on camera. he seemed that after he resigned or was pushed out of the trump campaign that he was embittered
at how he was treated. what is so interesting about the indictment is something that you see in our film. roger and paul manafort were on the vanguard of going to brutal third world dictators and getting their business, making millions of dollars off them. at the time they were registered as foreign agents. we see that part of paul manafort's problems now is that he isn't registered as a foreign agent. they saw an opportunity to make a lot of money off of going and representing some of the most unscrupulous people on the planet. this is a through line in paul manafort's career. >> is paul manafort somebody who saw donald trump as a vehicle to enrich himself? >> absolutely. these guys absolutely love the high of election night, the thrill of the countdown, the manipulation of the people. they're not just in it for the money. the money is a great perk and maybe it morphed into a love of
money. but their real source here is the thrill of the hunt. >> why does it seem that there's so much emphasis on russia, ukraine. why does that seem to be such a particular area of interest for all these guys? >> i think that a lot of these political consul at that particular times and lobbyists could make a lot of money. the lobbying class really exploded and the consulting class gained so much more power. a lot of people went to look overseas for work, lobbying and consulting work. that was one of black, manafort, stone's practices, was representing brutal third world dictators to lobby in the u.s. for foreign aid to support their war against the more leftist communist regimes that were
rising, say in africa. you know, this is -- what they have done, paul manafort especially -- roger stone has also done work in the ukraine. michael ka pew toe has also done work in the ukraine working for boris yet sin. that is their new bread and butter. >> just based on having interviewed paul manafort, interviewed roger stone, do you think they're the type of men who are afraid of going to prison? >> well, paul manafort had -- it's been disclosed that his password seems to have been bond 007. he was leading this lavish jet setting lifestyle hanging out with oligarchs in the lap of luxy ri ri.
roger stone insists that paul manafort is intensely loyal to the president, that if he tried to flip on the president he would be lying and he would never lie. but you see that paul manafort even ob few skated in our film in that clip. >> in 30 seconds. he was either put on by roger stone or not. >> and paul manafort's family is wrapped up in this too. he expressed to us great affection for his family. his daughter is a film maker like us. when the heat is on rgs it's hard to guess what decisions will be made. >> his children were living in some of those multimillion dollar apartments he might have been buying with his ill gotten gains. this is going to get interesting. good luck. oz car buzz. i hope you guys get the award.
up next, the wild crazy governor's race in virginia. stay with us. our recent online sales success seems a little... strange?nk na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?! hi bill. if that is your real name.
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yet today people in congress and his own administration know that this president is a clear and present danger who's mentally unstable and armed with nuclear weapons. and they do nothing. join us and tell your member of congress that they have a moral responsibility to stop doing what's political and start doing what's right. our country depends on it. ms-13 is a mess. raffle northham increased the threat of ms-13. his policies are dangerous. >> i'm ed gillespie, candidate for governor. i sponsored this ad for a safer, stronger virginia. >> the ad you just heard is from the campaign of ed gillespie.
he's facing off against democratic lieutenant governor ralph northam. northam has a narrow 1.2 percentage point lead over gillespie. gilless's ads seem to be working. let's talk a little bit about these ads. we know that gillespie has hire add former trump staffer who worked trump's virginia campaign, actually the field director for the campaign. with that field director in tow, ed gillespie has sharpened the distinctions and running ads that really do push up against
issues of race. i want to play the first ad that the latino victory fund has ran. here's the latino victory fund ad. ♪ >> run, run, run! >> is this what donald trump and ed gillespie mean by the american dream? >> so that ad was pulled on tuesday after a terrorist attack in new york city that involved a pickup truck hitting people for real. now, this is the rebuttal ad from ed gillespie's campaign. it's kind of his closing argument ad as well. take a look. >> this new attack ad from a democratic group -- >> single most disgusting unfair
thing i've ever seen. >> calling people that don't agree with you white supremacists is totally out of bounds. >> this assumes virginia voters are really stupid. >> ralph northam disdains us. >> those ads seem to be working. ed gillespie seems to be gaining with this argument that they just think you're deplorable. what do you think? >> i think i have a really queasy feeling in my stomach about this race. i'm still cautiously optimistic that pause of the energy that we see on the left across the country, northam will still be able to pull this out. make no mistake. this looks a lot like trump and clinton. the republicans, we know what they stand for. it's these culture wars, race ichbl and tax cut-- racism and
cuts. people don't know where he stands on anything. he has tried to reinvent himself for this moment and it has led to tremendous lack of enthusiasm. so the gillespie play book has really worked in this case. i just hope that we can hold on. >> it's interesting. jason, you wrote a piece called conservatives shed white tears over political ads calling out ed gillespie's racist ads. you've also had this weird thing happens where liberal groups have walked away from northam because he has dropped support for sanctuary cities. where ralph northam apparently put out campaign flyers that don't have his black running mate on them. what is going on in virginia? >> this is the thing. i want people to understand this. i'm right next to virginia. i see some of the local ads. i talk to a lot of people on the campaigns. the demographics suggest ralph
northam probably squeaks out a win. the larger issue is this. if he does lose, it's not necessarily because ed gillespie has managed to stap boo the dna of bigots in virginia. leaving fairfax off of campaign literature, that angered a lot of the enthusiastic supporters of justin fairfax. coming out five days before an election and saying i'm not in favor of sanctuary cities, there are no sanctuary cities in virginia. he didn't need to step into that. ralph has allowed gillespie to control the narrative. i think it's also because of ms-13. this is a local race. >> there's something that you will recall, joel, from the campaign that you worked on. the bots have arrived in virginia.
twitter bots swarm into the virginia governor's race promoting chatter about a racially charged ad buy days before the report. the reaction has been amplified by automated bot accounts. out of the 15 accounts tweeted most tweektly, 13 of the 15 belong to fully or partially automated bots. now we have that activity transferred into a local race. >> right. the danger here is we've ignored what happened in the presidential race to an extent with a president who seems to want to live in this fiction that russians didn't meddle with our elections. they did. his campaign colluded with them. the threat was they would do it over and over again in other democrats and now it could be happening at a state level. when bots are engaged, you know there are some nefarious players involved. what's happening on the ground in virginia is what strikes me about it from afar, that northam
has let gillespie control the final week of the conversation, not a great place to be. you always expect it to be tight. historically, if you look at the states that have governor's races the year after a presidential, new jersey and virginia, typically they have elected a person from the party that didn't win the presidential race. that being said, there is dissatisfaction on both sides. you've got people like -- he's pandering to racism and neo confederates. virginia is a moderate state. at the end of the day i think northam may squeeze out a close race here. we are not going to know at 9:00 where this thing stands. >> crystal you ran for office in virginia. you know the state well.
are the democrats making a mistake by chasing after the virginia suburbs and thinking they can get suburb ban white women rather than scooping up the base? >> i think that they need to stand for something. think about the fact that bernie sanders, probably the furthest to the left politician in the democratic party, is also the most popular politician in the democratic party not because he's so far to the left, but because he stands for something. that's the problem. we continue to run these candidates. who people think that they're full of it. they don't trust what they're saying. so it doesn't resonate with anyone, with the base, with white sban women. it doesn't resonate with anyone. >> hillary clinton did win virginia by the way and she won by appealing to sban white women also. tim kaine did that when he won the governor's race in virginia.
i think democrats do well when they can speak to their core constituencies, the part of the base of the party that's active but also appeal to some of the suburban voters. >> charlottesville took place obviously in virginia. think does the monument thing wind up helping elect gillespie? >> if gillespie gets elected, it's northam's race to lose. i still think he's in the lead. if you're in some of these suburban towns in virginia, you're not necessarily worried about the monuments. you're worried about the ads that gillespie ran that says northam wants to give guns to pedophiles. he literally said that. some of the press that you're seeing nationally is not what people are seeing in different parts of the state.
that's why this becomes an issue of the ground game. when you have mistakes like northam has made -- you're alienating your base right before the election. if you look at the primaries, the democrats should probably win, but if they win it will be in spite of mistakes. >> do you think if gillespie is able to win this way, he's pretending to be this sort of defender of the kefs. does that wind of spraeting to the whole gop? >> absolutely. gillespie is a numbers guy. i'm sure they're looking at numbers that are telling them this is the way to go. it's a little bit unusual, but this is where the energy is in the republican party. they draw the democrats into these cultural battles rather than focusing on pocketbook issues. and it's working. >> is that a depressing
diagnosis of the republican party going forward? >> i think long-term the consequencings for this for the republican party are not to be underestimated. i think they will pay a price for this. it's not where the country is. we're becoming more diverse, not less diverse. it will divide us. it will harm us. but long-term trends in this country are behind where this country is going. we have to do a better job as democrats about winning on election day. i think we have more opportunities where we can win and we can't squander them. hopefully tuesday we'll win the dwofr's races in new jersey and virginia. i think virginia is going to be particularly important because it is a swing state. >> it's a swing state where you would give ed gillespie and his trumpy friends the ability to redistrict and draw the gerrymandering lines.
obviously the demographics are only going in one direction. even if short-term this is working for the republican party, this is sort of a goldwater moment for the party in terms of where it has placed itself on the spectrum in terms of race and democracy. >> if you can win a gubernatorial election, i think we should all be looking for passports. that's a very very bad sign. i think the virginia voters are smarter than that. we can't forget, new jersey is about to sweep out everybody with an r in their name. that was a state that chris christie dominated for years both. i don't think a gillespie win means everyone is going to be running around in a confederate flag. i we've got to be careful of
presuming this is a trend as opposed to what might be local. up next, bishop william barber joins us for your moral moment in a challenge to the religious right. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish,
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the evangelical institution and its president, jerry falwell jr. have been prominent supporters, even inviting trump to speak at this year's commencement. now a group of progressive clergy are taking on the university and its mixing of faith and conservative politics. in an open letter to falwell, barber challenges him to a debate and contends we contend that the greatest threat to christianity is that our lord's gospel will be confused with white supremacy. you and others who see the tr p trump -- we have reached out but not heard back. joining me is bishop william barber. bishop barber, this started -- great to talk to you, as always. this started with the expulsion of a clergyman, right? of a pastor from liberty university. can you quickly explain? >> actually it was a prominent christian author named jonathan
martin and a critic of the trump administration on theological and the basis of the gospel who was taken off the campus. he had been invited on. and told that he would be arrested for trespassing if he returned. >> wow. and so martin, according to npr, said that he was photographed, told by liberty university police that he would be immediately arrested if he stepped foot on the property ever again. he's been a frequent critic of donald trump and falwell jr. falwell's response said that martin called the university one of the most hostile environments to the gospel in the u.s. i assume martin is a globalist. we understand that is upsetting to leftist leaning and progressive christians to see so many evangelicals supporting donald trump but many believe evangelicals are among the forgotten men and women in this country who voted for change in 2016. that kind of sounds like steve bannon, globalist. what is that about? >> it actually is a threat to the gospel because it's not the
gospel. falwell joining others like franklin graham and jeffers and tony perkins have actually said that donald trump is the dream president, even though his policies are a nightmare to the very people the gospel lift up that we should be concerned about as a nation, the poor, the sick, creating tax problems that hurt the least of these. it's a nightmare and contrary to the gospel. and falwell and others know they really can't stand the critique. in fact recently falwell was reported as teaming up with steve bannon, the white nationalist, to expose fake republicans. well, white evangelicalism, not evangelicalism, not i'm an evangelical. i tell people i'm a conservative theologically liberal evangelical. but he's trying to connect this -- trying to connect the gospel to white nationalism is as old as the slave masters religion that promoted slavery. this is like the slave masters
religion in the 21st century. what they're afraid of is they're so much against -- first of all, the 2500 scriptures that you hardly ever hear them talk about that talk about our deepest moral principles. scholarship is against them. francis fitzgerald shows how falwell and his like are losing among millenials. and then soon chandra has written a book that has done demographics and shown without african-americans and immigrants, white evangelicalism as a theology is dying. to say white evangelicalism or conservative evangelicalism and then try to suggest the policies line up with the gospel when they really do not. >> and you've had jerry falwell jr. tweet finally a leader in the white house about donald trump, jobs returning, north korea backing down, et cetera. in an interview with
breitbart.com last saturday, he said that he thinks the leadership. republican party should go and that trump, if they do, trump will be the greatest president since abraham lincoln, which is interesting. paul ryan, who has battled with his own church, he is a catholic, on these issues of cutting taxes for the rich and cutting programs for the poor will be selling that on fox news tomorrow. do you challenge paul ryan on his theology, because he claims to be a very grounded catholic. >> deeply, deeply. now, you've always had persons that would attempt to make religion fit the goals of oppression. that's not new. it's as old as the magicians of pharaoh against moses, it's as old as the false profphets against the real prophets. it's as old as ministers who took on dr. king. but listen, the bible actually said, this is the one scripture in ezekial 22. your politicians have become
like wolves when you attack the poor and you have preachers covering up for the politicians. falwell and others are covering up. we're ready for a debate when they're ready to have it. >> let us know if they agree to that debate. that would be terrific and we may host it on this show. so reverend falwell, if you'd like to debate bishop barber, we'd appreciate it. "a.m. joy" is back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. please stay with msnbc for the latest.
down. sounds seedy and weird, of course it is. still not the strangest thing happening in washington right now. tonight we have more on the ongoing saga of the trump dossier. senators chuck grassley and lindsey graham have launched a probe into former national security advisor susan rice. in the very final minutes of the obama administration, just afternoon on inauguration day 2017, rice sent herself an email on the white house computer system. in it she describes a meeting she had attended just two weeks before on january 5th. at that meeting were president obama, vice president joe biden, fbi director jim comey, deputy a.g. sally yates and susan rice herself. according to rice in this email, obama instructed the officials in the room to consider withholding national intelligence from the incoming trump administration in case they were compromised by russia. in other words, almost two months after the presidential election, barack obama viewed trump not as his democratically elected successor but as a
traitor and a russian spy. obama viewed himself as someone who somehow had the right to withhold government documents from an elected president. that's not the behavior of someone who believes in democracy. and, yet, that meeting set the tone for that year and all subsequent arguments since. democrats have treated trump and his elections as illegitimate ever since then. and at the heart of their case against trump and this administration is the steele dot yea. so this day the dossier is the only publicly available document that details alleged collusion with russia. now, of course, we have talked a lot about the dossier on this program. but relatively little about what is in it. what does the dossier actually claim? is any of it true? after more than a year of probing by politicians and intelligence agencies and journalists, here's the sum total of what we actually know about the document that started all of this. we know the dossier was compiled by christopher steele, acting as a
contractor of fusion g.p.s. with funds supplied by the hillary clinton campaign and the dnc. the dossier was a form of opposition research designed to be used against trump in the presidential campaign. it was not an intelligence document. it was oppo. the dossier claims that russian authorities didn't simply collude with trump during the 2016 election, the charge you hear a lot about. it also claims that russian intelligence cultivated donald trump as a kind of asset, a kind of one-man sleeper cell for more than five years. there is no evidence of that. the dossier also claims the kremlin fed the trump team intel reports on hillary clinton and other political opponents for years. there's no proof of that either. it claims trump was favored by moscow with lucrative russian real estate deals as part of his cultivation as a political asset. that sleeper cell. no proof there either. according to the dossier, trump and russia were exchanging intelligence with each other for at least 8
years no. proof of that the dossier goes on to describe the clandestined meeting in prague between michael cohen and representatives that supposedly took place in august of 2016. this is one of the very few claims in the dossier that has been conclusively checked and it's false. cohen wasn't even outside the u.s. at the time the meeting supposedly took place. in sum, the steele dossier is absurd. the closer you read it, the more absurd it is. take 10 minutes to do so yourself. it's online. as you read it, ask yourself who would believe something like this? it's so transparently partisan and unlikely and stupid and flimsy, it reads like a parody of a badly written spy novel. at the same time he was firing people on the apprentice, donald trump was working with vladimir putin to subvert america? it's hard even to say that with a straight face. it's that stupid. yet, keep in mind and never forget, this is the document the fbi used to justify spying on american citizens. these are the claims that democrats in congress
repeatedly cited as the reason to stop the normal functioning of government in order to investigate the administration. this is the famous dossier that even today progressives in the media are spending millions in an attempt to corroborate. and it's all a stupid joke. amazingly a lot of people in power fell for it. congressman ron desantis is a republican representing the state of florida and he joins us tonight. congressman, thanks for coming on. >> good evening. >> tucker: the meeting that susan rice describes had her email the vice president and vice president sally yates and comey is really revealing. trump was accused of considering obama foreign with the birther stuff. obama did consider trump foreign, a foreign agent. can a sitting president deny government documents, intelligence to an incoming president? >> i don't see how you can do that. i mean, just think about what yates was on to at the time with michael flynn met with kislyak, the russian ambassador. that was one of the reasons why she sent the fbi agents to flynn once he got in.
so they were creating some type of boogie man really out of flynn acting like any incoming national security advisor would. >> tucker: a president's authority and legitimacy comes from voters winning an election. that's what makes you the president. how can one president say i don't think the next guy should have this. i don't think is he worthy of this information. >> i think it's improper to do that. it's interesting. this january 5th meeting in the oval with comey, what did comey do that very next day? that was when he briefed trump on the dossier. he went to trump tower. he showed him the dossier. that eventually got leaked to cnn and then that allowed the dossier to get put out into the bloodstream. also, during this whole transition time have you an unprecedented campaign of leaking classified information designed to put a cloud over trump's incoming presidency. so i think susan rice has a lot of questions that she is going to have to answer. why would you all of a sudden right as you are leaving the white house do that email saying obama said
do it by the book? it's just a really odd thing to do. she was trying to create a record and the question is why did she feel the need to do that. >> tucker: what's the answer? >> i think we have to find out the answer. i think it was clear that by the time trump got inaugurated, i mean, you had the permanent bureaucracy in the obama holdovers. they were putting, feeding information to the press on a daily basis. the first two or three months of his administration was constant bombshell reports, quote, unquote, all based on anonymous sources, all based on former or current u.s. officials. and that really started from the day he got elected all the way until the appointment of robert mueller as special counsel. >> tucker: the dossier itself which is the center the public consumption claims that trump was being cultivated by russian intelligence forever five years prior to becoming president is there any evidence that's true? >> no evidence that that's true. think about even what they used for carter page. i mean, the idea that the russian oil company -- energy company was going to
give him 10% stake or 20% stake in a company that is so big that would have been $10 billion that they were going to give to carter page and the fbi used that to get surveillance. so the only thing that has definitely been corroborated is that carter page did travel to russia during the campaign. did he that. he gave a public speech. none of the other key facts have been corroborated at all. >> tucker: not surprisingly. am i overstating it when i say as a normal person readings the dossier it seems prima facie absurd. you would have to be a moron to take that at face value. >> that's my reaction to it it's spectacular and something that comey was actually right about. salacious but unverified. >> tucker: yet, they used it as a basis for spying. it's upsetting. good sty. richard good stein is an power of attorney. he advised both of hillary clinton's presidential campaigns e joins us tonight. richard, great to see you. >> that for having me back. >> tucker: concedes this is
the very center of everything. this comes from buzzfeed. the publication now has apparently hired a former fbi official and others to travel the globe and try to corroborate it so far without success. but you buzzfeed is at the center of this. the fbi used this buzzfeed document to justify spying on an american citizen. so i'm wondering, were there other buzzfeed documents that are partisan? i read buzzfeed i'm sure do you too. >> of course. >> tucker: 31 things girls do in the bathroom but don't talk about. >> anything you want to talk about relevant to the facts that you love. >> tucker: stuff you love if you are lactose intolerant but can't stop eating dairy. >> fbi shielded donald trump because they knew the intelligence community knew that's what they briefed the president and vice president about in the susan rice memo about the fact that russians had interfered and outside the rules to go after hillary clinton. can we at least have that as a premise? >> tucker: the premise is
this: allegations were made against the trump administration. very specific ones. that they colluded with the russian government to win the election that moreover the president had been a long-time russian agent. and those are very serious allegations that former president took them serious enough as you just heard he considered withholding intelligence from the income president. so the question is if you make agencie allegations like tt do you have any obligation to prove them and do you have any obligation to apologize? >> let's talk about five year business and talk about what we know. what we know is michael flynn was a foreign agent. >> tucker: wait, slow down of russia? i'm asking. >> perky, we know that. >> turkey is the same as russia? >> he didn't disclose what he was being paid by russia or turkey we know that. we also know because of the wiretaps of kislyak that he asked kislyak, look, go easy we're going to not proceed with the sanctions. guess what? we just saw that within the past two weeks. lo and behold they did it
shocking. >> tucker: am i misremembering this? i think he campaigned on that in public. does that make him a russian agent? that's actually a policy position you can be against sanctions in russia as i am the and not be a russian agent? does that make sense. >> any russian official would be derelict if they knew that the national security advisor coming in could be compromised because he had lied about the fact that he was a foreign agent. he did not disclose that and guess what? just like rob porter was subject to blackmail, so was michael flynn and guess what if you are coming in -- i'm south i didn'ting we don't know, you are putting this as trump. what the president was saying in the susan rice memo is essentially we have a guy who is going to be sitting stepping from the oval office who is a foreign agent. okay? and we know he has got these ties to russia. we know he approached kislyak. and we can't trust that he won't approach kislyak about something that's more secret than sanctions. >> tucker: let me just ask you a question. are you allowed to a virch view on sanctions than the one barack obama has or the one that you have or is that
criminal? >> it's not a question -- >> tucker: do you realize you are going insane on tv. you are saying things totally legitimate and acting like they are immoral. >> have your official a foreign agent that is insane. that is demonstrably insane. that's what we h sorry. >> tucker: no, actually we didn't at that point. >> yes, we did. >> tucker: i would say as i have said 100 times on this show that it was wrong for mike flynn to make money from the government of turkey in point of fact when he showed up to the white house he was not a foreign agent at that point. like a lot of people in washington, including a lot of people you know, he took money interest a foreign government to change american policy. i think that's wrong. it happens every day and our policies are driven by that fact as you know. >> do that in the white house. in the white house, he used his authority to basically push policies that were going to benefit turkey he told susan rice don't go into raqqa, why? because it would involve the
kurdish military which was adverse to turkish interests. you talk about traitors. that's traitorism. >> tucker: traitorism. we are coining a new word. >> we are. >> tucker: none of that actually get to the point. you are saying he had taken money from the turkish government. that's wrong. i agree with you on that. but none of this has anything to do with the core claim, which is basically wrecked our government for over a year. and at a certain point do you feel like maybe you are responsible for this insanity which is destroying the concept of due process, making it impossible for anyone to think clearly? do you think maybe i'm part of this. maybe i should pull back a little bit and be rationale. >> four points in 10 seconds. the russians said to the trump people we can help you. donald trump jr. love it, bring it on. the russians did it with wikipedia and trump, therefore, used it 100 times on the campaign trail encouraging the russians to steal from hillary clinton. okay? >> tucker: oh. >> that is a problem. >> tucker: so does it bother you that the hillary clinton campaign paid through a
foreign intelligence agent steele, russian sources to gather russian government information to use against their opponent, donald trump? i'm not sure why that's so different? >> i will tell you. >> tucker: oh, very different. >> one step, the russians stole and what hillary clinton did was get information that was frankly a matter of public record. >> tucker: right. a matter of public record that trump was working for the russian government for five years? what public record was that? >> incidentally when the mueller report is finished, we will see what is fact and what's not. you can laugh. we can laugh. >> tucker: i can't tell whether you believe it or not. >> you might be the last one laughing here. >> tucker: i don't know. i may have to leave the country. if all i believed in is not true. pierce morgan made the stunning claim that former white house aid and semiprofessional television official omarosa offered him sex for n. return for her
helping her win celebrity apprentice. that's not the only thing she is up to next. up next deny or confirm. stay tuned. ♪ ♪ some moments can change everything. you can't always predict them, but you can game plan for them. for 150 years, generations of families have chosen pacific life for retirement and life insurance solutions to help them reach their goals. being ready for wherever life leads. that's the power of pacific. ask a financial advisor about pacific life.
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bad as y'all think trump is, you would be worried about pence. we would be begging for days of trump back if pence became president. that's all i would say. he is extreme. i'm christian. i love jesus. but he thinks jesus tells him to say things. i'm like jesus doesn't say that it's scary. >> tucker: meanwhile over on "the view" another reality show the host there characterized the vice president's religious faith as mental illness. >> look, i'm catholic, i'm a faithful person, but i don't know that i want my vice president, you know, speaking in tongues. >> like i said before, i don't know -- >> it's one thing to talk to jesus. it's another thing when jesus talks to you. >> exactly. >> that's different. [applause] >> that's called mental illness if i'm not correct.
>> tucker: ppiers morgan joins us. >> hey, tucker. >> tucker: what do you make of this political pundit and dismissal of -- >> i find it absolutely ridiculous that we are even having to discuss omarosa in any serious political context of the only reason we are doing that was because she was allowed to have an office in the west wing of the white house for nearly a year. i don't know why donald trump would have ever let her in there. she is already behaving exactly how i could have predicted she would behave. in other words, squealing like a canary and taking them all down as, of course, she is going to. she is only rosa. she is a reality television star whose only to be poisonous viper spreading gossip, inend dough and terrorizing everyone in her wake. first question, what was she doing there? >> tucker: i couldn't agree more. >> i mean, seriously.
>> tucker: russian story this is a bigger scandal. omarosa worked in the white house? really? democrats didn't even notice. i guess she seems normal to them, i guess, i don't know. >> qui hav we have all this stuf porter. he shouldn't have been there either given what we know about him. questions for the administration right to the top about who knew what what, when, and where. if we are going to apply that logic and judgment to rob porter. where was that judgment about omarosa with her own office in the west wing? it is almost beyond parody. there is a serious point to this, tucker, who is the president surrounding himself with? i have known donald trump a long time. when i took part on celebrity apprentice with only rosa. he has to have better people around him in the white house, i think, than the types of people we see with rob porter and omarosa. >> tucker: i think omarosa is probably in her own category. i can say, you know, having
been over there a few times it's not chock-full of omarosas. she did work there she became famous for being horrible. i don't think it's an overstatement. you worked with her on the apprentice. what's she like? >> she is absolutely appalling. i mean, literally one of the worst human beings i have ever encountered in my life. i have encountered a lot of bad people. she has no saving grace. she was vicious, conniving, scheming, plotting, treacherous. she -- i mean her first gamut to me day one first challenge. she side arms up to me hey, piers we should have a showmance everyone on the apprentice has sex together and we could sell that and make lots of money. i said are you completely diluted? please, go away. she said what's the matter with you are you gay? i said no, just because i don't want to have sex with
you on this show it doesn't make me gay. i'm a victim of omarosa, tucker. but she gave me then for four or five weeks unrelenting five barrels of abuse, tirades, homophobic stuff and really vicious, nasty stuff. i couldn't believe it. she got beaten on the show. i ended up winning it. that stuck in her mind as well. come forward to the campaign middle of 2017. she is going to be working for donald trump the candidate. what? how can that even make any sense. then i hear when he wins she is going to be in the white house. now, look, again, i have a loft respect for donald trump. but i'm afraid with omarosa this made no sense at the time. it makes no sense now she has left. she apparently achieved absolutely nothing in her time in the white house other than disrupting everybody. and you can just bet your life she was there listening, plotting, scheming, probably tape
recording. we're now going to have celebrity big brother and all this stuff will come out of this. then we will have the book and then the docu series and lifetime movie, tucker at which point you and i will have to leave the country so ridiculously absurd. [laughter] >> tucker: that's one of the most vivid descriptions of anyone i have ever heard. have you been in contact with her? i suppose you are not texting each other. >> we have not stayed in touch. did i bunch in to her at wwe wrestling event. the nausea i felt in the exact moment she made that proposition to me all came flooding back. i literally had to run to the restroom and regurgitate what i had done all those years before. she is beyond any reproach. she is a professiona professione territory. least trustworthy human being ever conceived on god's earth. for her to be lying in to mike pence about religion when religion has somehow created this monster is
beyond any sense of realism you could ever wish to have. >> tucker: what a life you lead running into omarosa at wwe is so fantastic. piers morgan, come back any time. good to see you. >> i will. food to see you. >> tucker: thank you. democrats aren't pretending anymore. dick durbin said it out loud. we need to import more peasants so employers can save on wages. true that story in its details next. ♪ ♪ without starting from scratch. it brings your business up to speed, doing more with systems you have in place. it can bring all your apps to life and run them within your data center. it is... the new ibm cloud private. the cloud that's designed for your data. ai ready. secure to the core. the ibm cloud is the cloud for smarter business.
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>> tucker: democratic senator dick durbin of illinois was surprisingly forth right this week about why we need mass immigration to the united states. immigrants, durbin says, provide the low paying surf labor that american employers desperately want. watch. >> take time you look next time go nice restaurant city of chicago. look who just cleaned the dishes off the table and when the door swings look who is in the kitchen doing dishes. by and large going to be immigrants doing those things. not many of us say to our sons and daughters i'm hoping the day will come when you decide to go and pick fruit for a living. hardly ever hear that because we know it's hard, back-breaking work and immigrants do the work. so many jobs that they fill are jobs that americans aren't jumping to fill. >> tucker: actually fruit is picked by machines but whatever. ron eiler executive director of define american. he joins us tonight. ryan, thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me,
tucker. >> tucker: so striking for someone as old as i am to have a democrat make this case. millions of americans who can't get by have the country can't get $400 on a day's notice. what they need are higher paying jobs. here you have a democratic senator saying no. the point is making sure employers pay as little as possible. import a lot of people from third world countries that will work for less. why is that helping americans and why is the emphasis not on raising their wages. >> yeah, tucker, i think what i would suggest that senator durbin was leaving out is the fact that many immigrants, in fact, twice as many as citizens start businesses. they come over, they try to bring their families, to start family businesses. join families of faith and, sure. many are working in our fields and frankly our agriculture industry would not survive if it were not
for the three quarters of immigrants working in that industry just like in many cities. >> tucker: i don't know if your facts have caught up to current reality which is agriculture is increasingly mechanized. takes far fewer people. >> it is. >> tucker: overwhelmingly mechanized, actually. among daca recipients about a group we know a lot. what's the most single common job among daca recipients? working in restaurants. >> yes. >> tucker: you are talking about low wage, low skilled jobs and also talking about people who are less educated than average native born americans. only 5% of daca recipients have college degrees. that's exactly the group of jobs that's going away because of automation. there has been a lot of the study on this. very weird to me that you would import millions of people to do jobs that are disappearing. why are we doing that. >> because the more immigrants that come here the more jobs that are actually created. so the rhetoric is good and i realize, look, i'm here in kentucky. we are a poor state. my own family, as a matter
of fact, i worked on a farm when i was growing up. i know what kind of back-breaking labor that is i know what we're talking about. i'm worried about that part of the economy, too. but, the truth of the matter is, what we're talking about here has been the backbone of our entire country since the beginning. it's always been family-based migration as it was for your family. >> tucker: what you're doing and i realize you are a minister. i get it you are making a kind of moral argument. i would say half-baked. i'm making economic argument. do you know what supply and demand is the never changing rule if you have overabundance of something its value falls. if you bring in a million new labor borerers, every year what happens to wages at the end? can you guess? they go down. >> all the data is suggesting overall on the whole wages go up on that economic argument. i would say that's the same for your great grandfather. >> tucker: i'm just as an economic matter, how did we
suspend the law of supply and demand when it comes to immigration? it applies to everything else in life. sand is cheap there is a lot of it. not cheap for immigrant labor because of why. >> because the more human beings that are in a place the more they can buy your products. the more human beings that are creating businesses, the more business and entrepreneurship you have. that's been the trick for all of american history. that's what has made our economy so vibrant. go back on that, tucker. >> tucker: hold on, so by that i don't think you have the facts on your side. as theoretical side if low labor makes you rich why isn't mexico richer than the united states? >> well, first of all, i would suggest that you can go to define american.com/facts matter and can you see all of these facts. >> tucker: it actually is richer than the united states? is importing poor people makes you rich, why hasn't it worked for the rest of the world? >> why is the america, tucker that was good enough
for my great grandfather and clearly good enough for your great grandfather who didn't have the merit that you are talking about to come, why is that no longer the america that's good enough for. >> tucker: i would say you know nothing about for one thing my great grandfather and secondly because the economy has changed. it's 2018. we are in a post industrial part of the economy. it's also a lot easier to get here than it ever was. and by the way mackenzie just estimated by 2030 we are going to lose 73 million jobs. you seem not at all concerned by that i bet you if you looked at donors they are big businesses that want cheap labor. i'm throwing that out there. that's just a guess. ignoring facts relevant to modern america. >> as a matter of fact, i'm supporting those facts. look, we ought to be concerned with the mechanickization of labor. immigrants are not creating that as a matter of fact, look at all the businesses created by immigrants in silicon valley it would not be here literally if the current plan on the table that the senate is looking at and that the trump administration is proposing were to be passed.
>> tucker: oh, that's actually -- hold on, i'm not here to defend congress or trump or whatever. i just want to defend the country and say then why wouldn't we limit all future immigration to immigrants with the same profile of the people who started those businesses in silicon valley? >> well, because that's not what the current plan suggests. >> tucker: no, no. why wouldn't we say look, if you have an advanced degree in engineering, you can come here, how is that regardless of color and national origin and if you have a high school education you can't. would that work? >> did your great grandfather or did you have engineering degree at graduate level. >> tucker: i was born here. these are people who don't live here. we get to decide whether they come or not. why wouldn't we get people more impressive why would we bring in people with fifth grade educations? what's the answer? >> well, because we are a country in our most prominent harbor reads give me your tired, your poor. >> tucker: you don't have
economic argument. but you are going to recite a poem. los angeles judge just handed a big win to illegal immigrants and big set back to the rest of the country. we will give you the details next. liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely.
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especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach-area pain, and swelling. ask your doctor if 90 days of linzess may be right for you. >> tucker: a federal judge has issued a ruling suggesting that a core part of isis immigration enforcement is unconstitutional u.s. district judge andre barot jr. who is obama appointee says the l.a. sheriff's department violated the rights holding them to authorities instead of granting them bail. thanks to that ruling illegal immigrants are entitled to damages funded by taxpayers. thanks for coming on.
>> thank you for having me, tucker. >> tucker: left leaning judge declared that illegal immigrants once they sneak in have a right to be unmolested by federal legal authorities and if americans try to do something about it they are the criminals? >> well, actually the characterization that you make is incorrect. these are not people who snuck on in. these are majority of these people were individuals who were here on a work visa that had expired. some individuals in this case were actually u.s. citizens, who were just born in a foreign country. and what happened here is a practice going on in many parts of the country. local jails. los angeles sheriff's department children services surprised by. typically you see this in more obscure places. >> tucker: let me be clear about something. the american citizens are born in other countries, that's a mistake. that's not germane to the policy. that's not germane to this debate. they were accidentally picked up and shouldn't have been. >> part of the class of plaintiffs that sued and actually won in this situation.
that's not true, tucker. >> tucker: what is true is the judge's order pertains to people here illegally. and i should clarify. it doesn't matter how you got here whether you ran over the border and stayed here illegally. >> one person was a u.s. citizen. at least one person. >> tucker: that doesn't apply. u.s. citizens have a right to live here by definition. it's their country. people here illegally don't have right to be here. >> tucker, if i could state this. what was illegal here was how the los angeles county sheriff's department was operating. they basically were getting these detainer requests and it's a request. it's not a requirement for them to act in accordance with. okay. by ice. okay, so it's voluntary on their part. they are not required by law to act on this. they were then going, rounding up and picking up people simply on these detainer requests which did not have any probable cause. that's what the judge found there was no probable cause for these detainer requests. >> tucker: what do the americans have. i'm losing track here.
do we have a right to tell people who are not here legally to leave and make them leave if they don't leave? >> tucker, what you need to walk away with in this case is that undocumented immigrants have legal rights. >> tucker: i hear every day. what are our rights as americans do we have the right people here legally to leave. >> we have the right as tax paying citizens. we have a right to make sure our tax dollars are not being directed towards chasing people who are here and whose matters are to be dealt with in -- they are supposed to be dealt with in civil court. these are civil offenses. these are not crimes. being here because you overstayed a visa is not a crime. it is a civil offense. >> tucker: let me ask you did. >> to be dealt with in the immigration courts which we as the taxpayers pay for. >> tucker: i would like to get a clear answer on this. which is does the country have a right to determine who from other countries
gets to stay here and to say you are not allowed to be here, you didn't go through the process that our congress designed and now you have to leave? you are saying no we don't have that right. >> i'm not saying that. >> tucker: yes, you are. >> i'm saying the courts found. >> tucker: devoted a lot of time stripping us of that right. >> i'm not an immigration attorney. i do not devote any time to what you are stating. what i'm saying that the court found these are matters that have to be resolved. civil offenses that have to be resolved in the immigration courts. >> tucker: i get it? >> that's what has to happen. >> tucker: hold on. this is important this is the core question. >> and so is the judge's ruling. >> tucker: does the country have a right to tell people who are here legall illegally to leave and you are saying no. the entire left is saying no. >> i'm not saying no and neither is the left. we have laws that provide protections. these matters, if you want to deport somebody, that's fine. you don't go to a criminal court. you go to the civil court, immigration court. >> tucker: no jurisdiction in the state in immigration
matters? that's what you are arguing? >> they do have jurisdiction in. >> tucker: they do? tell that to the attorney general of california. >> in the immigration court that have been established by our laws and that we as taxpayers pay for. when they take money out of your paycheck and take money out of mine, it's to pay for these courts to make sure people do. >> tucker: illegals being mean to weren't supposed to be here in the first place and we are violating their rights. i wish you would spend more time thinking about the rights of american citizens. >> i do. i'm an american citizens and we protect ours and those who have constitutional rights, which they do. supreme court decision. >> tucker: i got that thanks. >> have a great valentine's day. >> tucker: yeah. a princeton professor has been forced to cancel his class on free speech after a students couldn't handle speech. that story with brit hume next.
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♪ >> tucker: a professor at princeton has just discovered the limits of academic freedom, the fragile feelings of students. as part of a lesson on free speech in anthropology class the professor called boris rosen asked students whether it was worse for a white man to physically attack a black man or to use a racial slur. students didn't react well. many stormed out. at least one got in his face and screamed the f word. rosen has cancelled his class. brit hume went to college when it was different joins us now. [laughter] so, brit. >> it's been a while though. don't ask me how long it's been. >> tucker: i won't. but, what i found so striking about this one, this class -- this is not something he threw out there. this class was about speech, what speech is offer. it was anthropology class. how odd is it that princeton students couldn't handle it?
>> well, we're talking here about the n word, which is one of the ugliest words in the language. >> tucker: for sure. >> we don't go around using it for that reason and it's offensive. however, i would submit there is a difference between using the word and mentioning the word. there is a difference between using the word that is to say calling someone that or speaking of others and using that word saying that they are, you know, that. and mentioning and discussing the word. and in a class devoted to this very subject of language and what's offensive and what's not, you ought to be able to mention the word and in so doing say the word. after all the professor wasn't calling anybody by that name. he was simply discussing the word itself. and that's a distinction that seems to me has been lost in this absolute wave of political correctness in which some things are simply now unsayable. >> tucker: yes. >> to me it makes no sense. >> tucker: like most people i hate that word and i don't
want to hear it i also would like to think that princeton students would be rationale enough to say we are having a speech violence. is speech ever violence this is a horrible thing and here is what it is. they would be able to track that be smart enough to understand what you are saying but it doesn't seem like they were. >> no. i think one of the problems here, tucker, is that, you know, america is a compassionate country and a country that strives for justice and equality and we want to be sensitive to other people's feelings. and, therefore, if you're a victim in any of these areas, it's kind of a good deal. you get a lot of consideration. you get a lot of sympathy. and it seems to me that we have reached a stage in america where we have people basically going around applying for victim status or seeking to be offended so they can react to it and be indignant and even yell f bombs at college professors. and i sense that it's
utterly regrettable. you see this sensitivity going on all the time. we talk about snowflakes. our colleague fox news contributor guy benson ran into resistance up at brown university and ivy where people said it was offensive and wrong for him to be permitted to speak there. this all spartan part of the same phenomenon. widespread and widely reported on. i think most people in america disprove of this and yet on it goes. the responsibility falls upon university administrators and the faculty which put up with this crap and have for a long time. and this needs to stop. >> tucker: in the letter at brown they accuse guy benson probably the nicest guy in the building enabling white supremacy. if you had an 18-year-old right now would you be worried about sending that child to college? >> well, i have an 18-year-old grand daughter who is at college. and i'm pleased to say that there hasn't been many reports at the college where
she is going of this kind of stuff going on. but it very much concerns me and, yeah, i am concerned about it and i got another granddaughter coming along in a couple years heading off to college and i very much hope that she'll choose a college and will be able to get into a college where there is a minimum of this kind of stuff going on. more than that, tucker, i hope by this time that that attitudes about this will change and these college administrators will begin to grow some backbone. >> tucker: i hope. so the revolution will burn itself out. brit, thank you very much. >> you bet, tucker. >> tucker: great to see you. if you travel at all, you know that cnn is ubiquitous in airports. why does america's least impressive cable channel dominate america's least pleasant location. we actually looked into that question. we have got findings for you next. ♪ ♪ ♪ the tears are in your eyes,
mvo: how hard is it just to take some time out of your day to give him a ride to school and show him you support him. ♪ and don't be ashamed to cry, ♪ let me see you through, ♪ 'cause i've seen the dark side too. ♪ ♪ when the night falls on you, ♪ you don't know what to do, mvo: when disaster strikes to one, we all get together and support each other. that's the nature of humanity. ♪ i'll stand by you, ♪ won't let nobody hurt you. ♪ i'll stand by you, ♪ so if you're mad, get mad, ♪ don't hold it all inside, ♪ come on and talk to me now. ♪ hey, what you got to hide? ♪
mvo: it's a calling to the nation of how great we are and how great we can be. ♪ i'm alive like you. ♪ when you're standing at the cross roads, ♪ ♪ and don't know which path to choose, ♪ ♪ let me come along, ♪ 'cause even if you're wrong ♪ i'll stand by you. ♪ i'll stand by you. ♪ won't let nobody hurt you. ♪ i'll stand by you. ♪ even in your darkest hour, ♪ and i will never desert you. ♪ i'll stand by you.
don't we need that cable box to watch tv? nope. don't we need to run? nope. it just explodes in a high pitched 'yeahhh.' yeahhh! try directv now for $10 a month for 3 months. no satellite needed. a farmer's market.ve what's in this kiester. a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h. for any sort of discomfort in yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it. >> tucker: well, if you have ever been to an american airport, you may have noticed something. everyone is watching cnn. they tonight have a choice. that may have made choice 20 se0
years ago. these days the channel has strayed so far to the left and wacky left conspiracy superiors and strange advice from chris cuomo, have you got to wonder what's going on. airports are like an lesser version of hell food and propaganda posing as food on cnn. why is this network, this channel in every airport in america? we decided to find out. and surprising large number of cases the reason is that cnn is literally paying to have you watch them. cnn has a special package called cnn airport it combines news, sports, and travel in at least 60 airports cnn has signed agreements to show the channel in miami, for example, cnn airport pace the airport authority a minimum of 150 grand a year. in minneapolis, the airport authority there told us, quote, cnn covers the cost related to the tvs and infrastructure and pays us for the opportunity to be in our facility. which raises the question how much would you have to be paid to watch cnn? if the answer is no amount
share this video, got it out to a lot of people beyond we are, we appreciate your perspective and stay safe and wish you the best of luck as you recover from the flood. i want to move on to chris turner, cnn photo journalist, who lives in maryland not far from this area. i know that and this is video that chris actually shot not too long ago. chris, give me an idea of what you are seeing right now. >> right now, ryan, we are seeing a lot of the water has receded. a lot of the mud and debris leftover is laying over. we saw governor hogan walk down the steps through the mud to survey the damage. some of the residents are moving back towards the area. there was one area parking lot that i did take pictures of where the floodwaters were up to the roofs of cars and now just mud. but people are making their way through the mud kind of trying to assess the damage of what just happened.
>> i see in that one bit of video that you shot it looks as though the pavement is just ripped apart creating a huge hole. we see cars being tossed and. that's that video there. that is pretty remarkable. i mean, i know you live in this area. have you ever seen anything like this before? >> you know, i remember in 2016 when the flood happened. my wife and kids were -- and i were, going to eat lunch here and decided against it for some reason and then next thing you know it was flooding. we have seen the video of the floods of 2016. i have rarely seen anything like that. i know that road that was washed away is an access point at the top of the hill coming down into the bottom of historic downtown ellicott city and that's going to take some definitely long time to repair. there's a tree that was cracking as it was -- the soil eroding and falling in.
it was very, very eerie to watch that happening. >> i can only imagine. and you -- i know you told our producers you smelled gas at one point. i would imagine there's more than concern about the water damage when you have something like this happen. >> there's a multitude of concerns here. there's mud damage. there's, you know, you never know what's underneath but this water's pushing a car swiftly down the street so you never know what that car hit, what that water's done inside homes. there was a smell of gas. they did ask us to back off and now let us back towards the scene of all this destruction. and hopefully, you know, this beautiful, quaint little downtown can get back to normal soon. >> yeah. chris turner, just one small example of cnn photojournalists that rush to danger when everybody else is rushing out, thank you for bringing us the incredible pictures. please stay safe. and we'll check back with you in a little bit.
now the full scope of exactly when's happening there by bringing in meteorologist tom seder with experience covering the weather in the washington, d.c. and baltimore areas. tom, what should we expect? are residents there through the worst of it? >> well, ryan, we have got good news and bad news. this is bad enough. the third round of thunderstorms moving in have really weakened so therefore the water's receding but the river has risen almost 18 feet in 2 hours setting an all-time record crest. unbelievable. focus on just the eastern and southeastern u.s. we have been stuck in a pattern for three weeks now where there's a stationary boundary across washington and baltimore, spreading back to the midwest. so the southeast is hitting -- seeing thunderstorms, ground's satch waite saturated and alberto. that is nuance storm. we need to watch it because the
moisture is lifting northward boo this area this week but if you follow the thunderstorms and the lightning strikes, round one and two and three. one, two on the same area. we call it training riding right on the front call area. this is the third one that's dying out. national weather service, believe it or not saying we thought sure six, seven, eight inches, they're saying 6 to 12 inches of rain fallen. that's like a freak of nature and water rescues, highway 29 in columbia. you've got ellicott city, an emergency warning extended to 10:30 and for howard county, you head into east central frederick county and maryland, anyone along the banks of the petasco river to get to the highest ground they can. ten inches of rain. this fell in a short amount of time and what's really staggering here is this is the
water gauge. in two hours, above the record which was 23.6 feet. hits 24.13. that's almost a 18-foot rise in 2 hours. therefore, an all-time record. but the rain is lightening up. we have to watch the precipitation shield up to the north from alberto. anything can had buts. a freak of nature. six to 12 inches, almost unheard of. >> the gauges fall in line with what kali told us, she said a dry street and within a half an hour, a raging, powerful river. absolutely incredible pictures out of maryland. tom, thank you for that. we'll continue to follow the breaking news. we'll be right back. your company is constantly evolving.
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he is expected to be there for a few days for observation but a spokesman said he is awake an alert and not in discomfort. you may recall that last month the 93-year-old has to be hospitalized for a blood infection. just a day after the funeral for his wife former first lady barbara bush n. an e-mail to friends and family, the former president's chief of staff struck a more reassuring tone saying, quote, i guess he partied too hard with the american legion yesterday. darn it. also tonight, rudy giuliani uncensored. the president's attorney suggesting in a new interview with cnn there's a strategy to undermine the work the special counsel is doing. and it has to do with all those conspiracies about the fbi spying on the trump campaign. take a listen. >> they're giving us the material. i couldn't do it if they didn't have the material. they're giving us the material to do it. of course we have to do it in defending the president. we're defending to a large
extent, remember, dana, we're defending -- it is for public opinion because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach/not impeach. members of congress republican and democrat will be informed a lot by the constituent and the jury as it should be is the american people. >> impeach or not impeach. boris sanchez at the white house, despite the apparent pr strategy against mueller, he says he wants to do an interview with him. >> reporter: surprising considering the string of attacks of president trump and the surrogates aiming to discredit the special counsel. today the president referred to it as a witch hunt and referred to russia's actions in the 2016 election as so-called meddling depyett the fact that there have been more than 20 indictments in that probe including to some dozen or so russians who have been indicted for meddling in the 2016 election. it is surprising, also notable,
that giuliani claimed that this investigation would already be over if the president didn't have this adamant stance he wants to meet with robert mueller one on one. listen to this exchange with dana bash on "state of the union." >> well, if he wasn't thinking about it and it wasn't an active possibility we would be finished with that and moving on to getting the investigation over another way. he is adamant in wanting to do it. we are -- the president, but we're more convinced as we see it's a rigged investigation. now we have this whole new spygate thing thrown on top of it, already very legitimate questions. >> reporter: and, ryan, one more note. the president tweeting about the russia investigation over the weekend, including one sort of curious tweet he sent out this morning referring the young and beautiful lives that have been destroyed by the russia investigation. unclear exactly who he means. i reached out to some folks in
the white house press team to try to get some clarity on this. is he talking about george papadopoulos or michael flynn or other figures in the campaign that pled guilty to serious crimes? no response from the white house, ryan. >> boris sanchez at the white house, thank you. coming up, the panel weighs in on rudy giuliani admissions and hawaii on high alert. lava reaching 2,000 acres. we are live on the big island.
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president talking about and not talking about with special counsel robert mueller. listen. >> if mueller -- everything can be worked out then they would probably limit it to collusion and obstruction. the collusion part, we're pretty comfortable with because there's been none. the obstruction part i'm not as comfortable with. the president is fine with it. he's innocent. >> all right. let's bring in the panel to discuss this. joining us from kentucky, cnn political commentator and former special assistant to president george w. bush scott jennings. and in our nation's capital, the deputy managing editor kelly jane torrens. isn't that a target knowing what the lawyers are uncomfortable about talking about him with? >> yeah. you know, ryan, i have to say i take a little bit of a contrarian stance on rudy giuliani. i know a lot of people in washington think, you know, he's
what's going on with him? little crazy. saying this and that. goes on the shows, says too much but i think the most telling thing he said in this interview today on cnn was talking about not making trump the victim. now, trump himself with his tweets constantly tries to make himself the victim of robert mueller's investigation. but rudy giuliani said that he doesn't want to talk about trump firing someone because that would make trump look like a victim and that was the problem with richard nixon. once you look like a victim of this you're a victim because you didn't something wrong and so rudy giuliani's the first lawyer of donald trump's that's really heavily gone on the offense. it is controversial tactic but the other tactics didn't work very well and perhaps this one will. >> going on the offense means attempting at least in some respect to undermine the credibility of the mueller investigation and, scott, a poll found 39% of republicans think trump should testify with robert
mueller. that's down from 54% in march. i mean, how much do you think that president trump's decision to either sit or not sit for an interview could impact republicans in the midterm elections? >> well, i think republicans by and large believe this investigation has gone on too long. they do want to see it concluded and they do want to know if russia meddled in the election but i think republicans think the president is unfairly targeted. i think what rudy and company are doing right now, though, is basically what the clinton white house did in the 1990s. you brought up some polling. what the clinton white house successfully able to do is target the special counsel, the people around ken starr, make it seem like they were unfairly treated. bill clinton's poll numbers went up and up and up. people lost faith in the special counsel and they knew what rudy knows, unlikely to indict a sitting president and aimed at the only political resolution, impeachment in the court of public opinion.
the way i see it, bill clinton's vast right wing conspiracy is donald trump's deep state. they're running essentially the same playbook. >> very similar. there is evidence, kelly jane, it's already working. the same poll finds 44% of people agree with the way that mueller is handling the investigation down from 48% in march. is this the proof that the president's attacks and what rudy giuliani is talking about essentially this political pr campaign that it's working? >> i think it is because let's face it. we don't actually know very much about how robert mueller is handling this probe. he does not go on the air. he is not tweeting. he is keeping very quiet. there have been some leaks but it seems to me that the leaks came from people who have been interviewed by robert mueller or people connected to them. not people on the team itself. and so, i think this pr tactic is working because robert muler is keeping very -- we don't know what information he has. and that's why we can't make a
prior judgment about whether his investigation is, you know, fair or not until we see what his evidence and when he presents it but i think, yes, the pr strategy -- that to me says it is working and i have to say this whole new stuff of spygate, that has nothing to do with robert mueller's probe. that was the fbi listening before robert mueller came on before donald trump was elected. but they're successfully connecting those things in the public's mind and i think you're right, ryan. poll numbers show it having affect. >> the average american is not watching every machinations of this investigation and compare ones a the effect to another. they lump it altogether. that's part of the effectiveness of throwing spygate out there and connecting to robert mueller and doesn't necessarily add up. scott, to that end, you know, ultimately if robert mueller has the goods on donald trump that may still convince the president to fire him or rod rosenstein and there are many republicans
who at least behind the scenes that are talking about being concerned about that and only one of them talking about it publicly and that's senator jeff flake. listen to what he said this morning. >> behind the scenes there is a lot of alarm. there's concern that the president is laying the groundwork to move on bob mueller or rosenstein. and if that were to happen, obviously, that would cause a constitutional crisis. there is concern behind the scenes. i've been concerned that we haven't spoken up loudly enough and told the president you simply can't go there. and he's obviously probing the edges as much as he can. >> right. >> to see how far congress will go. and we've got to push back harder than we have. >> scott, i've heard you many times and the best thing for the president to is allow the investigation to go forward. do you think republicans in congress should actually codify that in law, protect robert
mueller's investigation with a piece of legislation? >> no, i don't. i don't think it's necessary because i don't think the president's going to fire anybody. i think they're going to let the investigation go forward. we have essentially been having the same conversation now for months an months. will we wake up tomorrow and find that donald trump fired somebody? it's never happened. i think many -- >> he has -- scott, scott, he has fired some people. he did fire the fbi director james comey. he is not above not firing people. >> remember when he said he wouldn't fire rex tillerson and then did a few months later? >> he wasn't conducting an investigation boo the presideint and have senior officials warning the president. that's a bad idea at the doj. the best course of action to get it over with. i think firing people would prolong it, getting it over with, getting the information out there and then seeing what you have to deal with at that point, that is the way to expedite this. i think firing people prolongs it and then your political head
aches. >> why is it republicans in the congress reluctant to take that step of passing a law in. >> i think part of it is -- some of them, you have ben sass not a trump nfan and he thinks the president does have the right to hire and fire people in the executive branch. that doesn't mean that he thinks it's a good idea that trump should or should not do this. that doesn't mean he thinks it wouldn't be on junction of justice. there's the question for republicans, is it going against how the constitution and how the executive branch works in this country? surprisingly i think some republicans are thinking more long term and big picture rather than just this presidency. >> quickly, scott, i want you to react to this tweet from the president not too long ago. he said, why didn't president obama do something about the so-called russian meddling when he was told about it by the fbi
before the election? this seems to indicate that the president still is unwilling to concede that russia meddled in the 2016 election. isn't that a problem? >> well, i don't know. the administration and several people in washington have all conceded. reports and committees and other people, the intelligence community, have all said the russians meddled. i think what the president's getting at there is this. this happened on barack obama's watch. he said he had more flexibility. didn't enforce the red line in syria and i think the point is no wonder they tried to meddle in the election. they knew we were weak at the time. unexplored territory and matters to people if mueller finds the russians meddled and collusion, unwilling, there's people saying out there, wait a minute. why didn't the previous administration put a stop to this if they knew about it? we know they knew about it because they admitted they know. >> all right. excellent conversation as always. scott and kelly jane, thank you for joining me. coming up, a new sign that
the north korea summit is back on. a u.s. delegation traveling to the country to prepare for a potential meeting of president trump and kim jong-un. we're live on the korean peninsula. delivery should look like this. crisp leaves of lettuce, freshly-made dressing. clean food that looks this good, eaten at your desk. panera. food as it should be. now delivered. ron! soh really? going on at schwab. thank you clients? well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms...again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. potentially fatal disease.
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paula hancocks is in seoul, south korea. paula, there's a lot of advance work for a summit nobody can say will definitely happen. >> reporter: well, that's right, ryan. and that gives us an indication it could well happen june 12th. we heard the u.s. president say that's a favored date. this delegation in the north korea at the moment an interesting one because it's headed up by a delegation or the delegation's headed up by the ambassador to the philippines. he was the ambassador here in south korea and negotiated in the past with north korea and he understands north korea better than most and understands the pitfalls and the difficulties in trying to negotiate with pyongyang. and at the same time we also know that there is a u.s. delegation in singapore or on its way and they will be looking at the more logistical side of it. the site surveys for the potential summitment all intents and purposes it looks like the summit is going ahead.
we heard from the south korean president moon jae-in on sunday, as well, talking about his surprise meeting with kim jong-un on saturday saying that he hopes the summit goes smoothly, not if but when, and an indication of kim jong-un looking for from mr. trump saying that he's looking for guarantees of regime survival. that is his all through president moon, not directly from kim jong-un himself and saying that he thinks there's economic benefits of north korea and said to mr. kim and said that he has to sit down next to mr. trump face to face to that he can have the guarantees given to him by the u.s. president. we've heard the u.s. president say this before saying he does guarantee kim's regem survival, says he will be safe, happy, his country will be rich. ryan? >> paula, president trump despite cancelling the summit seems optimistic it will happen. do south korean officials and the korean people share that
optimism? >> reporter: absolutely. the president of south korea wants this to happen. he staked his credibility on this dialogue. he is the driving force behind this. the people of south korea for the majority of them they would like to see it go ahead or at least they approve of what president moon's doing. the approval rating near 80% give and take a few percentage points depending on which you one you look at. that's incredible approval rating showing they like what he is doing. ryan? >> all right. paula hancocks live in seoul for us, thank you very much. coming up, lava from the kilauea voluntarily ka th kilauea volcano is so widespread it's visible from space. we'll get a live update. he's saying he's gonna score a bunch of three-pointers on you. yeah, we ball til we fall. there are multiples on the table: one is cash, three are fha, one is va. so what can you do? she's saying a whole lotta people want to buy this house. but you got this! rocket mortgage by quicken loans makes the complex simple.
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the situation on hawaii's big island is getting more dire by the minute. about two hours ago we learned of a new fissure in the estates. it is not threatening any structures yet. another fissure doubled in size in the last 24 hours. another spewing lava more than 100 feet in the air. officials say the eruption is vigorous right now and cuts off neighborhoods and consumes homes. the molten rock destroyed 4 miles. we are in the fourth week of this nightmare. just seems to be getting worse. miguel, what are you seeing right now? >> reporter: yeah. 24 fissures right now and it is getting worse.
a voluntaricanologist said it'sa bit of lava that's capable. this i believe this is fissure 22. it is just become active again and started to mountain out that lava. this is fairly small by some of them that we have seen and growing. now it's looking ten to 15 feet out there and that live camera we have had up digitally for a couple of weeks we have moved it and if you look at that camera now that i believe is fissure 16 to see from here. keep in mind, everything that you are looking at now two weeks ago that was form land. it was all green. it was cows out to pasture. it was perfectly lovely and now it is complete lava field. several dozen feet now of lava if not hundreds of feet of lava in that area. this is becoming very active, as well. one of the biggest problems that people here will face in the
next 24, 48 hours, the trade winds that typically flow from the north to the southwest basically of the island. they're going to change directions and start blowing north and east and that will hit communities like puna and possibly hilo. much bigger populations and the young people, the older people, anybody with breathing problems could have a serious issue. a lot of sulfur dioxide in the air and just causes everything from hoiks to nausea to a bad throat to just about everything you can imagine so it could be a real problem for people in the days ahead. >> miguel, if kilauea outright erupts is there an indication of how big it could be? >> reporter: what they're modeling right now is 1924. that's the last time it erupted in a large manner and what they're seeing is the crater inside kilauea has expanded from 12 acres to 90 acres.
as that soil falls in, the summit itself shrunk and thinking it could be like a 1924 level which was ash for about two weeks. 20,000 feet in the air. ryan? >> wow. incredible. miguel marquez, you and your team stay safe. next, in the midst of a volatile time in american politics, cnn looks back at a tumultuous year that changed this country forever. a preview of the new original original series event "1968" next.
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tour turmoil, tragedy and trump. looking back at the year that changed american history forever. marked by contentious presidential election and a raging vietnam war and the assassinations of martin luther king junior and robert f. kennedy. >> my father really focused on the people in this country. his appeal was to the most disenfranchised. people from harlem, oakland and farm workers. very similar to martin luther king focussing on the poor and working people. >> in the aftermath of dr. king's assassination, it's scott king to make the notation change was needed now. >> my husband always said if anything happened to him, to carry on his work for his
people. >> she was always an activist. before martin was an activist and she continued to be outspoken in order to make the point that you can kill my husband but this movement is going to go on. >> cnn's anna cabrera sat down with three special guests to learn more about tonight's episode. >> let me start with you, with all of the upheaval we talk about in today's politics, american culture. we think about 1968 and really, it's no comparison, is it? >> no, i mean, we live in anxious times now but 1968 was a time of upheaval, just remember some of the horrific events of the time. dr. martin luther king junior is assassinat assassinated. robert kennedy is assassinated. the country is divided and against a war in far off vietnam. the democratic party is imploding. there is a sense of tension and
there is a violence in the streets and unrest in the streets. 1968 was a time when america was tearing itself apart and no one knew what would come next. >> let me ask you about the youth movement. you've written a lot about this and the massive protest in 1968. do you see connections between those demonstrations then and what we're seeing today with the youth movement, particularly when you look at the call to action on gun reform following these school shootings? >> absolutely. i mean, right now we're seeing the first mass student movement since 1968 and the high schoolers now in '68 in the late 60s was mostly college but high school was also really involved in opposing the war and millions and millions of students were taking to the streets and it's important to remember back then 27 million young american men were eligible for the draft. and so it galvanized the entire
country. we're seeing that. to a smaller extent but in a similar way now today and i really think '68 was a blueprint for the student movement. >> david, i want to ask you about the politics, specifically the presidential race of 1968. it was interesting to say the least. you've worked on some pretty contentious presidential elections in your time advising president obama in 2008 and 2012. how do these recent elections compare to the race in '68? >> well, '68 was an astonishing race. you had an incoumbent president beaten and shocked the nation withdrawing from his race for reelection. you had the emerging of robert kennedy as a candidate. i believe robert kennedy would be elected in 1968 and he was assassinated, he would have lived through that. i remember that with great sadness and you have a race
between a very damaged vice president hubert humphry who emerged as the democratic nominee and was carrying lyndon johnson's water into that race. you had richard nixon and let us not forget george wallace. george wallace, the segregationist governor of alabama who ran as a third parody candidate and by the way, you talk about were there roots of today's. look at george wallace and donald trump and look at the themes and thoughts. >> provocative. pioneered themes familiar with people today. >> to find out, no one is above the law. >> richard neixon campaign engages in the 1968 campaign,
which is it establishes contact with the government and encourages the government to obstruct a u.s. diplomatic effort to end the war in vietnam and they are doing this because they know that hubert humphry, who is inching closer and closer to richard nixon in the polls might win the election if the democrats are viewed as the party of peace so richard nixon actually obstructs through a u.s. attempt to try to end the war. >> that was before watergate. >> well, that lays the ground. >> yeah. >> because nixon comes into office with a big secret. >> lbj knew about this and didn't want to effect the election. >> yes, that's a big -- >> sounds familiar. lbj goes to humphry and says this is for the election. if you want to use this information, you can. hubert humphry says no, i won't. >> talk about the assassinations of martin luther king junior and
bobby kennedy. so we have a civil rights icon, a social justice icon being killed. >> i think it was so profoundly devastating for everybody in the country who cared about those two men and it also ultimately disenfranchised many of the youth of america who held up so much hope with both of those men. >> david, you were one of those young people in 1968 as a teenager, you say the events of that year really had an impact on you in the career path you pursued. >> well, look, i can't -- it's hard to describe what it was like to be a young teenager in that time and, you know, i came of age in the kennedy era. i'm an idealest still and believe in the idealism the kennedys stand for and there was a feeling that something bigger
than one person had died with robert kennedy and i remember being hoing home alone and seei bulletin martin luther king was killed and seeing the haunting tape of him talking the night before how he might not get to the promise land but as a people, we'll get to the promise land. i remember getting up and putting the chain on the door in my apartment in new york city, just out of a sense of dread and fear and of what might come next. it was a really, really dramatically haunting time. so just to harken back to your initial theme, you know, we live in times now but nothing like this. it really felt like a coming apart of our country and as a young man, i felt that profoundly. >> david axelrod, thank you-all for joining us. >> thank you. the cnn original series
must be talking to don jr. so he erased them. the expert is going through them trying to figure out a few things like is is a recording of a recording? that he cut it off at the time the? did to go back to laboratory whatever he had and cut it off? >> harris: it didn't stop there, also went after cohen reclaim the president knew about that 2016 trump tower meeting between trump campaign officials and a russian attorney. giuliani says it's flat-out not true. >> is wild, crazy, and are out of their minds. he did not participate in any meeting of the russian transaction. the other meeting said he was never there. at least four separate witnesses who say that against a guy who has been proven to be one of the biggest liars in america. >> harris: one top democrat is not dismissing michael cohen's
allegations. senator patrick leahy says it's time for donald trump jr. to come back before the senate judiciary committee to answer them, but this time in public under oath. what do you think? where are we? is the story moving forward where we mired in an angry x attorney? >> guy: i can tell you this. a place at the president does not want to be is having his current attorney firing back at his longtime attorney. it's not a healthy spot for team trump because michael cullen was a trusted fixer and attorney and confidant for many years for president trump prior to him being president and if he has decided it is in his interest to flip on trump whether he's telling the new truths or inventing new stories to help his own self, save his own skin, and that is a war of words that is not particularly helpful to trump. for example, watching rudy giuliani go on tv and pursing whether certain recordings cut off at a certain time and asking why that's the case, not a
A news show featuring the top headlines of the day from pop culture to politics, which are discussed by a rotating panel of four women and one man.
he is constantly contradicting himself on television. a couple months ago, he called michael cohen an honest man. >> harris: he did not know about this tape and that's what he's been saying. >> adrienne: now he's disparaging the credibility of the tape. i think the last person who donald trump and his current attorney would want to criticize is michael cullen. michael cohen knows a lot. it's been his attorney for years. >> kennedy: they were so terrified and obviously the president and his associates know the content of the meetings that they have with michael cohen in his office and some of the phone conversations, if they were so worried, that's where you would come up with radio silence. not necessarily from democrats. >> harris: whatever is gettable, he wants it. speaking whenever i hear the clinton cleaner out there defending the trump, my ears, i just feel like i want to watch them out with something because it's also tawdry.
lindsey graham said earlier over the weekend when he said i've been a lawyer for a long time and i've never seen a lawyer behave this way talking about cohen and the fact that he recorded all of these conversations with clients and now he's saying the reason why he did this is because he like to record things rather than taking notes. i don't buy that, that's not what lawyers do. >> harris: our senior judicial analyst here at fox news said. he has said that it is actually not rare that people would do this because of the phone devices that people might record to help take notes. it makes it easier contemporaneously. you can get an assistant to help you transcribe. they said it wasn't uncommon. >> guy: is an interesting conversation to have about the tape because of the president's voice on one of them. >> harris: wouldn't you tell the president that you were recording him if he were his
confidant? >> guy: you assume trump would be understandably upset to learn that he was surreptitiously recorded by his own attorney and that tape is now leaking to cnn. as a nightmare scenario. i just want to make one point, rudy now has gone on tv twice today on our network and another one saying that collusion is not a crime. was is a change or a pivot from there is no collusion. and i'm sitting here watching rudy and i'm wondering is this rudy being the pundit or is this a new legal strategy? they have insisted and sworn top to bottom there was no collusion, and if the president top lawyer now is out there ceding this messaging on television that collusion wouldn't be a crime, that seems like a bit of a change and on "fox & friends," rudy said president trump was not at that meeting. donald trump was not at that meeting. that was never the allegation. not that he was there, that's an odd denial of something that no one is alleging. >> adrienne: you bring up such a great point because it is
sit down for an interview with a special counsel. here is giuliani earlier. >> are you still having negotiations with his team? >> not yet. >> those are yet not? >> we haven't heard anything, i don't know why. they can write a report without him, they do not need president trump's -- they have two aspects of this. collusion, they have his side of the story. even as russian meeting, i'm happy to tell them he wasn't there. >> harris: all this is new polling from "cbs news" shows many of the president's supporters have his back in the russian investigation was about 70% calling the russian investigation now the witch hunts. and this comes as the president goes on the attack on the special counsel again, it happened yesterday, he tweeted this. there is no collusion. the robert mueller rigged witch hunts headed now by 17 angry democrats was started by a fraudulent dossier paid for by
cricket hillary and the dnc. therefore, the witch hunt is an illegal scam. just real quickly, that number increased from 13 angry democrats including one obama white house attorney to now 17, just clarifying that. is robert mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to president trump including the fact that we had a very nasty and contentious business relationship? i turned him down to head the fbi. one day before the appointment as special counsel. in our own chief white house correspondent john roberts says while there are still discussions on going, the president's legal team is now leaning toward not having the president sit down for an interview. i don't know that changes much. the facts are fresh. >> guy: will her wand has been the ongoing saga now for months. i feel like i've been sitting on his couch debating whether he will earn will not. >> harris: the president said it politically. i haven't heard in attorney say it's a great idea to sit down.
>> guy: will go out there and say i'd love to talk to him. every attorney has said do not do that so i would be very surprised of this interview were to happen. there's a lot to unpack there in the president's tweets, i'm confused about what this nasty conflict that he is alleging no now. at a golf club is something that we are hearing about. if the idea was that robert mueller was too biased to preside over this investigation because of golf club fees disputes from years ago, it's odd to bring that up now, the highlight that. >> melissa: we've heard that before but i'm really stuck on what you said before because now i heard really giuliani, it sticks out like a sore thumb. when he said it again, he wasn't at the meeting. so he's now saying that intentionally like that was a mistake, he sang it intentionally to different places, probably means he knew about the meeting other change changing the wording now. >> kennedy: is also talking about the parameters of collusion. that has been the basis of his
negotiation with mueller's team. we will talk about collusion, we will not talk about obstruction. if you remember, the 50 questions that were leaked to the potential he came from federal counsel, it was how did you feel when jeff sessions offered his resignation? how did you feel when you heard that george papadopoulos was drunk and very chatty with london business executives? >> harris: i just love to hear kennedy do this. >> kennedy: it seems like an amateur therapist talking you about your fees and not the president of the united states. >> guy: it was like a paraphrase. >> adrienne: it was not leaked from mueller, exactly. >> kennedy: it also wasn't refuted from mueller's team. >> harris: absolutely fair and true. we talk about his team not having any leaks. >> kennedy: he has come out. >> harris: she can't do the other 47 questions. i just kind of want to get an idea because we saw a lot of twitter activity from the
president, and we've heard from his attorneys, you pointed out twice on a monday already, so what does that tell us about what we know? >> >> melissa: it is very aggressive, mix if you like something is coming. >> harris: that's a rudy giuliani homework, that aggressive legal appetite. speak your thinking maybe this is a result of doing too many interviews too early in the morning or a little bit all over the place but it's consistently different now. >> adrienne: i think we're looking at two things here, number one looking at a president who feels like the laws of back are closing in. >> harris: that's from a democrat perspective. you seem to link this investigation is just going to end. >> adrienne: we will see. >> harris: he is also looking at the president's tweets which i've had legal professionals tell me that that length of the investigation but by all means, go right ahead. >> adrienne: i'm just saying
what i think could be happening, who knows? to the point you just made, mueller's team has not leaked anything and they have been radio silent. so first of all, from a democratic perspective, the president feel like the walls are closing in. secondly, he is also delivering red meat to his base to try to solidify their support has a go into the midterms. >> guy: there is a chance that this is a frantic effort from the president's team. the walls are closing in, they really scared. over this president loves brawling, getting out there defending himself, throwing punches or muddying the waters and getting walking over here and having exactly this conversation. >> adrienne: i don't think that's a smart move. >> harris: like i would've been just a few hours ago but there's no evidence of collusion. rudy giuliani and his comments have now gotten all of us to talk about even if there is, is not a crime which is completely different and that would be a shift if he wasn't just a thing.
the president and congressional republicans or does this simply fire up the base? joe manchin said to be the first democrat senator to sit down with the president supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. this is this is senate minority leader chuck schumer works to block that nomination. how this could affect vulnerable democrats. ♪
>> harris: breaking news is happening, italy's prime minister arriving at the white house. italy's prime minister giuseppe conte said to be perhaps the closest of allies in europe to support this president, but he is facing an interesting political ground where he is in italy, antiestablishment forces wanting things like closing the door to migrants and questioning the ground rules of italy's relationship with the european union and in favor of closer ties to russia. those two men now meeting inside the white house, will bring you the news on it as it goes. >> melissa: in the meantime, senator joe manchin from west virginia is scheduled to meet with supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh a short time from now, this will make him the first senate democrat to do so. joe manchin is facing a tough
election battle in a state that president won by a huge margin. the meeting comes a senate minority leader chuck schumer is reportedly pushing red state democrats to hold back any support for brett kavanaugh as long as possible. schumer is also calling for the release of cavanaugh's time in the white house where he worked his legal counsel and staff secretary. this morning, senate majority number said he will try to delay the process until that demand is met. watch. >> the question is what they're hiding, what are they concealin concealing. i will meet this with mark nominee and will certainly urge my colleagues to vote against him if we are denied those documents. >> melissa: in the meantime, senate republican is warning against an expedition saying they should request documents only relevant to who to who is potential supreme court service. i want to ask you about this. if so a bunch of these documents have to do with the time when he was staff secretary at the
white house. they say that job is somewhat called it a paper pusher, that's not quite what that is but they're saying that his job was to not about providing advice, that what it was about is making sure all the documents that were coming from different parts of the executive branch that were supposed to get in front of the president got in front of the president and he saw them and then it has nothing to do with his legal thinking. he didn't have any say over how the documents were constructed or what was in them, he was just responsible for getting them to the president. >> guy: they should strike an agreement about a reasonable document request from the bush administration era days but keep in mind, judge kavanaugh has sat on the d.c. circuit now for 12 years. that is the body of work that is most relevant to his nomination to the u.s. supreme court. i think it's interesting to see him as the first democrat to come in this guy has been a nominee for a month, the democrats are finally getting around to actually meet with him and he is in a very tough spot because there was a poll that came out that polled four red states that democrats currently
hold one senate seat in. three of them are up for reelection this year, in west virginia, his state by 25-point margin. the people of that state want to see him confirmed. in north dakota, which is where heidi heitkamp is running for reelection, it is plus 38 in favor of kavanaugh's confirmation and also a big double digit number in alabama and indiana as well. there was going to be immense pressure brought to bear on these red state democrats from the republican party, from their opponents, and meanwhile chuck schumer is over here saying please give us time for a fishing expedition, they have nothing, let's be honest. and if they want to find something to hang their hat on and they're asking these red state democrats to march along with schumer and company to give them that the lang. >> harris: are not just asking them, look at dick durbin, look at some of the other democrats. they are saying will fall on your sword for the cause. what is the cause exactly when you have opportunity, you're looking at a nominee that has
300 opinions that you could read through. let's say you do get all those documents, i don't know if you can read it all by october 1st bill is not protest too much because i don't think anybody read all of that health care legislation. but you look at these things and democrats have an opportunity to get on the record and meet with him and ask all the questions. it's money, it's dirty. in >> adrienne: first of all, i think everything a united states senator regardless of party affiliation said meet with him. but of course, democrats and the public and should be doing the same thing. we want as much information as we can get on him, that includes his emails and documents from his time in the bush administration. when elena kagan was going through her supreme court nomination, the tables were turned and republicans sought as much information on her. >> harris: they met with her, was of the situation where a month and we are waiting for one i'm a >> guy: her position was solicitor general which is popular for the u.s. government
who argues for the supreme cour. the job was specifically related to working the supreme court. >> adrienne: you should certainly make the argument that his time is very applicable. >> harris: i think others are making that argument which is directly why they went to george w. bush to find out if he would release the paperwork that they are looking for. >> melissa: it seems like a ridiculous question with the staff secretary. that stuff has nothing to do with his legal perspective. it was about getting papers together. >> adrienne: that's assistant to the president. speak to them he asked kennedy, is it suicide for these democrats when you hear the numbers back i if they vote against kavanaugh? is it automatic suicide or just one issue for them? >> kennedy: they have to think are they really representing their state? is so frustrating when we have these conversations because they are so far from the focus of what these meetings should be which is the united states constitution. it is the judicial branch, it is
holding the other two branches accountable, and asking some of those major philosophical questions which i have the opportunity to do. stay when we got breaking news right now, and we've been talking about the attorney for the president of the united states, rudy giuliani. and he is now on the telephone with us. mr. giuliani, you're with us? >> how are you? >> harris: i'm doing fantastic and i know you have your hands full with a whole lot and i went to get right to the questions if i can. do you want to first on earth with the statement because we certainly want to talk about what's happening this morning so take it away. >> let's begin and with that someone said today there is no collusion and therefore that collusion also is no crime, i've been saying that very beginning, it's a very familiar lawyer's argument that the alternative, my client didn't do it and even if he did it, it's not a crime.
and i have said that over and over. collusion is not a crime. the only crime is hacking and is ridiculous to think of the president hacked. why do i say that? i say that to attack the legitimacy of the investigation because it has become crystal clear this investigation that began with peter strzok has been continued as an illegitimate investigation and someday, we may have to prove it is. second thing that i wanted to correct, said why would we attack cohen, he can do terrible things. he could not do terrible things. we are fully confident that he has no evidence that would indicate the president. we have listen to three unique conversations which are all the ones that i would like them to be out of the public to hear them, but i can't do that. i can only respond to the ones that they leak out every time we do, we prove our case that the president did nothing wrong and when i said to him with a decent man, i had no reason not to think he was. all of a sudden, i find out the
man is taking his client, he is lying to him and hiding tapes, that he had lied and that i find out from listening to these tapes a lot of other things we don't know yet. but i think i've got a scandal on my hands. and of course, i'm not going to have my client attacked by a scoundrel. >> harris: i want to unpack that a little bit. first of all, let's start off with a collusion because what you said was he wanted to correct yourself and what we had you in two interviews today saying what appeared to be a shift was that you said collusion would not be a crime. but what you're now correcting for the record as i understand, is that you have said all along that there was a, no collusion and then b of their work collusion, it would not be a crime. is that correct? stay back there may be some sentences and that 40 minute interview that i didn't say both at the same time. it's similar. we say the flint conversation never took place with comey but
if it did take place, you can ask a prosecutor to go easy on somebody. >> harris: so we got that one point, he went on to a couple of others but i want to skip ahead to something else which seemed also like a shift today. and that was the tower, the trump tower meeting with the russian officials who were here to meet with donald junior, donald trump jr. and others from the trump campaign. in that meeting at trump tower there, it has been a question because of michael cohen now saying that he was willing to go on the record with russia investigation had robert mueller to save the president knew that meeting was going to take place. what we heard you say today was the president was not at that meeting. that actually takes on a question that has not been asked or even suggested. so why did you say that? >> because there were two different meetings, one of which has big doubt and the other one who has given the three reporters, beating up excellent
take you through it. the day of the meeting with the russians, cohen has said, he liked it so we are not even sure he said it. somebody set up for him the reporter. he said that he was in president trump's office in donald trump walked in, that is categorically untrue. didn't happen, two witnesses demonstrate that. he has talked about this endlessly on those 193 unique recordings and he never mentions it at all. he would have it had anything to do with anything. the reason he is saying it's one of the few things he can lie about where the tapes don't contradict, but the testimony of other people does. second, there was another meeting that has been leaked that hasn't been published yet. that was an alleged meeting three days before according to
be 13 or according to the leak, maybe cohen will withdraw this, i don't know. they haven't pursued it. and two publications are not going to publish it. i think they found independent contradiction. he says it was a meeting with donald, jr., with jared kushner, with paul manafort, possibly to others. in which they out of the presence of the president discussed the meeting with the russian. we checked with their lawyers, the ones we could check with, that meeting never took place, it didn't happen. it's a figment of his imagination or he's lying. the only meeting that they find for that day that included any of these people is a meeting about the hispanic judge that the president had criticized back around that time. so that hopefully set the record straight. >> harris: let me just ask it this way. to you now told us about two
meetings, there was one that the public knows about, which when you talk about a meeting and you say the president wasn't there, that's the one that everybody would assume that we are on the same page about what you're saying now is that there was another meeting that was leaked that has not been made public and i would assume until now, really described by you in detail that have been three days prior that had done, jr., jared kushner, paul manafort, gates, and possibly to others and thus the meeting that michael cohen says the president knew about the head of time, but you say the president was not there. >> but i don't know. all i have are two reports telling me cohen told him there was a meeting three days before with a group of people that i said that they discussed it and that the president was not there. he didn't say the president knew about it. i am telling you the meeting didn't take place, never happened, he had to handle it himself.
second, there's another leak, this one is out, and this one, he says he was in donald trump's office when donald trump jr. walked in and told him about a russian meeting that was about to start. that is also not true. >> melissa: this is melissa francis and i just want to jump in. i don't think any of that really addresses the question of why he would say he wasn't at the meeting? why are you saying that the president wasn't at the meeting? i understand those two meetings that you just set out there, but that doesn't explain why you're saying. who asked if he was there? no when asked if he was there. >> he is alleging the meeting took place and we are making it clear that the president was not at that meeting. cohen doesn't even allege that the cut it off. two alleged meetings, first meeting, a group people, not the
president, that group of people says the meeting didn't take place, who alleged it is cohen and secondly, president's office, in walks donald trump jr., says let me meet with the russian, never took place, didn't happen. >> melissa: neither of them happen, is different to say that meeting didn't happen to say it didn't happen but to say he wasn't there implies that it happened and he wasn't there. >> is alleged by a liar. as alleged by cohen. >> harris: they understand that. i went to get to this, mr. giuliani just so that everybody is on the same page. there was a meeting that witnesses saw. it wasn't really secret, they walked into trump tower, people went into that meeting. what do you say today about that meeting that we know of and don jr. was at that meeting, this is the first one, not the second, what is your latest take on that as you get ready
potentially to decide whether the president will sit down with robert mueller separate from anything? i just want to get you back on the record about that meeting. >> that meeting that did take place, they did in take place anywhere near that. that meeting that we are talking about with the russian woman and the other russian did take place, it's been described already by donald, jr., it's been described by i think jared, i'm not sure. but they came, they were supposedly going to be some bad information about hillary clinton, didn't have any, the meeting was over and it was never followed up. in the president didn't know about that meeting beforehand. >> harris: and that's the one that people really key in on and you've given us some information about things that are not in the bloodstream of america yet and now they are. and as we learn more, we have kai benson who was with us today and he has a couple of follow-ups if you can hang on for just one second.
>> guy: thank you so much for calling in. i just want to make this crystal clear for the audience because there are so many meetings, it's hard for all of us to keep track of. so the questions are very simple, number one, regardless of whether or not collusion would be a crime, is it still the position of you and your client that there was no collusion with the russians whatsoever on behalf of the trump campaign? >> correct. >> guy: second question is, of that meeting that we knew about at trump tower with the russians and high-level people within the trump world, the trump campaign at the time, you were saying again for the record that the presidential nominee, donald trump at the time did not know about the existence of that meeting prior to it occurring. >> i'm glad you asked that a very, very clear, yes. let me make one slight amendment when i say the trump campaign, i mean the upper levels of the trump campaign. they have no reason to believe anybody else did. the only people i checked with of the top four or five people.
>> harris: kennedy is here too, she wants to get in the question but before we go there, want to follow up with something that you said because you said one of the meetings that may not have happened according to michael cohen had donald, jr., jared kushner, paul manafort, these would've been the upper people in the trump campaign that you're talking about in your amendments here. >> correct. >> kennedy: mayor giuliani. >> they have all denied it. >> kennedy: i want to ask you more broad question because we have heard some of the parameters that you have laid out for the president sitting down in an interview with special counsel. what does a special counsel want from you? what are some of the guidelines that they have given you a? what are they requesting from you from the president? >> i can't go into all the details. number one because he want to keep it as privileged, not privileged or confidential as possible. second, the keep changing.
it keeps changing. the central parameters of it are we believe they are not entitled to ask any questions about obstruction because obstruction is could not have happened. under article two of the constitution. the president had a right to fire comey, he's got ten good reasons, he can't go try to construct another good reason another trying to do it by looking at tweets. i've never heard of obstruction by tweets. if they want to talk about collusion, which as i told you, we are very clear on. we might allow some questions about that. we didn't think they were trying to trap them. and that's what we have been negotiating. if there's some area where we can agree, it would be helpful to them and we wouldn't feel like being trapped. >> harris: mr. giuliani come at this point, we do have a democrat cast on our cash today, adrienne elrod, worked very closely with a hillary clinton
camp and one of the things that we have learned via adrian and other democrats is that there is this thought that we might be coming more to a close with the investigation that mueller has. knowing what you know, and we don't know all of what he has, are you now a "yes" or "no" on a sit down between the president and robert mueller? >> two things, no want to sit down until we get ironed out exactly what they want to do. and then the process is, we have five cocounsel, senior people, we will advise the president, he decides. and he's always leaned in favor of doing it. be when what you're telling him about that? what advice are you giving him? >> right now, i'm telling him no way. the five as a politician or as a lawyer? >> as a lawyer. i can be a politician, it's too confusing if you try to be both. and that was a very good question because there's a whole
political when you represent and the president, you're not as representing and there's a whole political aspect of this, however, i do think the political climate has changed a bit and i think people will understand much better now and maybe one of the reasons we reemphasize the point about the legitimacy of the investigation is we want to show that maybe he shouldn't be testifying at an investigation that has been no legitimacy. so i agree with the woman you mentioned, that i have the sense that he is near the end, i don't know that. he hasn't said that. he did say one thing that i can sort of support that with him at two months ago, back before all of this stuff happened, he was aiming at beginning of september at the time to get the report, he never said it, but i thought he was thinking of the november election. >> harris: interesting. to grow quickly, can i just do a
fastball up, you say that you think the political climate has changed in terms of what's "happening now" with the president, how so and why? >> i think going back, rewind, you didn't have the raid on the 13, he didn't have the horwitz report, the beating up on the legitimacy of the hillary clinton investigation and also the beginnings of the counterintelligence investigation against the trump campaign. because he's never been a subject of that. but i'm not sure i know what that means. the way that they define it. and it seems to me that we are at a natural ending point now and i hope it happens because ultimately, remember, he can indict. >> harris: he said he wouldn't. he said he would in any way. >> he did, you're right. that means he writes a report,
he's got plenty to write a report. >> melissa: can i ask you quickly? this is melissa francis again. i just want to clarify, you're talking about a second meeting that you say was going to possibly come out in the media, but it didn't happen, so now it is not going to surface as a meeting and it didn't happen. and that's one one where you d. walked into president trump's office? >> so the public record contains a leak by cohen that he was present at a meeting in which donald junior came in and informed the president, we deny that happen, we say didn't happen and if it had happened, it would've been mention a long time ago on the various outlets of tapes that we have. the second meeting was brought to my attention from jay sekulow, both of us out with it with two different reporters,
essentially the same information about at this meeting that took place three days early with a whole group of people, everyone of those people said it didn't happen and why did i mention it? because first of all, i thought it was going to come out, second, my experiences that when you have something like this floating around, it comes out. i don't want to come out and be unreported when it originally comes out. if it's part of what we are trying to do, the jury for this case of the american public. the congress, yes, the congress is a creature public opinion and how it's being shifted. 22% net for the president. meaning disapproval of his investigation has gone up, some polls have it over 50%, used to be down to 37 or 38, and in the president's division has shifted by about an equal number including his approval rating. so it seems to me there be more
understanding why you might not just run in their and testify. also, all of you put on so many lawyer and say we would be out of our minds of it but the president up for questioning come of it has to affect the public. i tell the president if we make you testify, we are going to get disbarred. >> harris: it's interesting what you say and people may watch this and wonder okay, so they're getting there influence from fox news or other media, but the actual truth of the matter is there a lot of people both sides of whatever political idol that you might drop to say in a legal profession separating out the politics should be crazy to put your client into a situation when you know that he is not economic with his words. and it might get a little dicey and who would do that with your client? so if you have separated the two hats that you wear because you were formally a politician. i want to go back grow quickly just to something that you said.
>> of euros and a doctor coming after be able to represent the doctor. he can't pretend you're not. and also, if you are not the president, the advice would be clear, he would not be testifying as normally as you know, defendants don't testify in grand jury's for the prosecutor. they got to make up their minds without that. >> harris: just going back to something you just said post to melissa's question, why do you feel is necessary to get on the record with things that haven't been asked yet? or that are not public yet? what is coming? >> when i thought it was going to be published, i wanted to get out in front of it. and the reality is that i can't comment on the dates and less for the situation unless we are attacked, we are not allowed to do that so we were being attacked and i would actually my life would be a lot easier if everyone of of those tapes was out there.
if you had all the transcripts. but i can't do it. >> harris: can i get this straight though? the reporting this morning is that there's only one reporting but the president's voice on it yet you talk about it and i wrote it down, 183 tapes or recordings. what is on those that would be so different if they don't contain the president and even if you don't name names and you probably can't, it's a big question. >> it is, but it's easy to answer. there are only 12 recordings of any substance, 11 of them. the others are coming back, see you later, the president of this today, the president did that today. some of them have little substance to them but nothing harmful. but them aside, there are 12 we would think of as conversations, one of them only when i could mention. because it has come out publicl publicly. what is the recording of cohen and the president.
what is the recording of ♪ ♪ and the president. the other ten or with other mostly reporters, i think the others, might be some media executives. >> harris: who was recording these things? >> the scoundrel. >> harris: i just want to get this straight, i want to try to understand. of these recordings and we are assuming that some of them, it's not old-school as kennedy has said, nobody has cassette tapes anymore. so these are really recordings and they are probably on a digital device like our phones i'm assuming, but i think i'm probably pretty right. you have prints promo with the president for two hours. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> melissa: to the president of that was being recorded? >> harris: chris comeau and
cohen? and the state of new york, we put that as legal? >> yes, legal. >> harris: and then another tape with cuomo and the president, how long would you say for that one? >> cohen in the president, was a 3 minutes. >> harris: then he said the other ten or so or what? >> similar conversations to the one between cohen and colombo. different reporters, all being deceived about being taped clearly, you can hear it. in a few cases hot, he goes through a major centrifuge which is he takes his phone and he puts it in a drawer and says i'm not recording this, he must have another phone with which he was recording it. >> harris: 's you can hear him saying after what you called subterfuge, i'm going to stop this one and put in a drawer. a couple of these he makes a big deal about it.
>> harris: is a lot of information. >> the one that would be a real problem for him aside from credibility problems with the others is the one with his client. the one with president trump. >> kennedy: who leaks the tape to cnn? >> the first one was leaked at the time to michael schmidt, they went on the restaurant, record and said it was in us. it is turn them over to us. they didn't get until a day later. >> melissa: does chris palma know about this? >> he knows everything about it, he reported on it. i'm not sure he's ever really -- he was an off the record conversation which is kind of silly now because it's off the record recorded in link to the public. you have to ask him about it. they would grow quickly before we let you go, is there any legal recourse that you take on
an off the record surreptitious recording? i understand how the laws work here in new york, there are exceptions to the laws, what are you looking at? >> the ones without the president have no legal implications and they have ethical implications, just for human relationships. the one with the president is a real problem because he's the president's lawyer. and it's another subject discussed that's clearly attorney-client privilege, the one we are talking about is attorney-client privileged and has to lead to some kind of disbarment proceedings, i'm sur sure. >> harris: that is when it is not public yet, that other subject. >> although somebody is actually mentioned it, it's not worth it. >> harris: rudy giuliani, the personal attorney for the united states president, we appreciate you calling in and thank you very much for taking all of our questions. >> also want to understand the
confusion and is going to get more confusing when his other tape start coming out but eventually, when you put them altogether, it's going to mean the president did nothing wrong. >> harris: got it, you've given us some of that information about things that are in the bloodstream yet and some that are not. appreciate your time. thank you. >> very good, thank you. >> harris: guy benson, your notebook is full. >> guy: first of all, can we talk about how extraordinary it is that he called in to the show live after watching her for segment? >> harris: we can talk about how extraordinary that is because he wanted to get on the record, you and i were talking about the fact that twice already today, he has said if there was collusion, that it wasn't a crime, and he wanted to get in and i were to town, he wanted to correct the record because he said it several times, maybe root was captured and didn't get captured were he actually said there is no evidence of collusion, but if there were it would not be illegal. >> guy: i just wanted to make sure which as i lie at the very blunt question, are you still saying there was absolutely no collusion and yes, the distiller
position. i would be curious if we had five more minutes with him to ask how he would define collusion, but at least that position appears to be unchanged where is this morning, it looked like the goalposts were shifting and also, on the second part of it, the second meeting, he said trump wasn't at the meeting and we are all sitting here thinking why are you saying that, we know he wasn't at the meeting, no one says he was and now we have learned of a second meeting that apparently has been alleged is about to come out but doesn't exist? >> harris: hence why he answered a question that has been asked yet. we're like why is he telling us? >> guy: it still didn't quite make sense. >> melissa: if the meeting didn't happen, why did you say he was an addict? >> guy: would say didn't happen. >> kennedy: was not in studio 54 with abraham lincoln. >> harris: what i thought was critical here and i called you up because i wanted him to know that we had someone here to and
opened up the possibility for you to ask question as well. but i thought this was really important. i said why do you think the political climate has changed for the president such that you would consider doing anything differently in his legal representation? he said that rewind three months, the rate on michael cohen, the ig report from horwitz which seemed to beat up on hillary clinton and her campaign, and it feels like a natural ending. i come to you on that because if you have raised the point that it also sort of seem like a natural ending for the russian investigation by bob mueller. >> adrienne: he is interviewed so many witnesses that would make one conclude that we are coming to an end. i want to talk with her quickly because i know we don't have much time left but these tapes that he is talking about, the additional tapes that are coming forward is something that is another issue. >> harris: he said out of the 183 or so that were on point with the issues at hand legally.
>> guy: the subterfuge part was really interesting. that he would go for a whole show. >> harris: fascinating hour of television here on out numbered, we will be back, stay close. ♪ when i touch you like this
topics: A petri dish of meat, please!; What's the color of insect blood?; Does microdosed LSD make you smarter?; Alcohol and the unforgiving liver; Nuisance...
that fast. to things friends have in common they're all free of animal products the number of vegetarians is growing around the globe most of them are now asia almost twenty percent of the population. there motivation is a very good animal welfare. concerns about the environment. all religion and more and more people are choosing a meat free diet but some say meat tastes too good to give up biotechnology is coming to their aid food this is the beef burger and this is the animal behind that the further it is still alive how does that work cost of maastricht university cooked up the idea he has pioneered clean or cultured meat the real thing but mine is the butchery. i think says he thinks that one day we may look
back in disbelief at these barbaric times when we slaughtered animals for food. in the lab in maastricht they have been working since the one nine hundred ninety s. on growing muscle tissue the main component of meat from stem cells mark past is the driving force behind the research. in twenty thirteen presented his first in vitro hamburger it was made of pure beef grown from bovine stem cell at a cost of a quarter of a million euros the few who got to taste it concluded that it was indeed like a pretty run of the mill burger. in the early days still took stem cells from slaughter cattle out of one tiny chunk of meat ten thousand kilograms could in theory be grown. stem cells
cultured meat has advantages over natural beef heads of cattle do not have to roll and cultured meat is free of unwanted material like sinews gristle and facia and it comes without hair or bones. the meat is also free of bacteria and of the antibiotics and other chemicals often found in wheat from non-organic lee grown cattle nowadays post only takes tiny samples of muscle from living animals to extract the stem cells but there is another problem. the medium in which stem cells are grown contains fetal bovine serum taken from the blood of cow fetuses both they and their mother colleagues have to be slaughtered. passed is working on an alternative culture medium that does not involve killing any animals. substances found an audi look promising.
production costs have come down a lot one of pos synthetic burgers would now cost about ten euros if it were on sale but only if the lab grown meat were mass produced in quantities comparable to regular ground beef today so scaling up is key for the researchers but that's still a long way off and there are several companies now working on cultured meat in the united states there is memphis meats a start up in san francisco. eric should say is on the team of scientists developing technology to grow clean meat and large bio reactors. he says it may sound weird but it is in fact an entirely natural process we just don't need a cow for it. it's just one bad full could yield forty thousand portions at memphis meets a baby meat ball still costs sixth out. thousand dollars so they have some way to
a kind of red hemoglobin in their bodies in order to transport oxygen. and some insects have a type of blood that's yellowish the ladybug for example it emits smelly human lymph when it's attacked as i'm not just warning. hundreds said that the blood of this bug the coaching male is used to color lipstick but that's not quite true and the pigment kamin is indeed made from dried but not from their blood instead come any acid which the insect emits to fend off predators is what creates the ruby red color. if outlet is red white object class and if they feel it to. pick as i do you have a science question can you touch. send us your question via video text of your smile we'd love to hear from you. just ask if. you'll
going through life with a bit more. makes a bit easier to go through this morning i woke up i meditated i went to the sauna this is something i do quite consistently and then of course i took a micro i was like you know my critics sing psychedelic drugs is becoming increasingly popular and austin has set himself up as a mike criticizing coach for him it's about integrating psychedelics into mainstream culture he says there's a tremendous upside to responsible psychedelic use he talked about this is a conference in switzerland where there were a number of fellow supporters. i've tried it it's wonderful mr is right to tell you like the idea but more for fun than to become say a more efficient. if you guys. i work with my mind so i would very much like to try it. near enhancement is
now increasingly for the purported neuro enhancing effects aside from l.s.d. therapy to block and my doctor now a methyl found a tight often called by the brand name ritalin. quite now is a psychopharmacologist he says the intervening twin haunts one function comes at a price because the brain is a vastly complex network of networks that story system military and responds to interventions by countering them when you so understand i take such a substance the desired results are often offset by ones i don't want my motivation in alertness might be enhanced but other cognitive capacities will be diminished. one way side. the tropic drugs is by intervening in the flow of neurotransmitters sometimes increasing their numbers so activating that receptus. neurotransmitters carry messages from one nerve cell to the next in the brain and throughout the body . a number of so-called neuro enhances
been researched at all. my personal opinion is that one should not take l.s.d. regularly even in micra doses. by coal. the message is messing with the brain is a risky business if you want a little stimulation without too many side effects a nice cup of coffee might be just right. coffee might give you a buzz but fresh fruit and vege are probably the key to physical well being out of substances manhunts our mental state as we saw we asked on facebook if you take pills to boost your mental capability. come in or rodriguez says it's a very tempting question but she asks what the cost of boosting brainpower might be . mighty don't come to zip is not convinced she distrusts brain pills and says
they're just placebos intended to generate money for the pharmaceutical industry. so our one seems to be ok with taking neuro enhancing drugs but only when he has an exam found on clinical points out of these substances will not miraculously improve intelligence she recommends natural products. and omaha he says pretty even if such drugs are legal you should first consult a doctor before taking up. thanks to all of you for writing and keep those answers coming. and now we move on to another drug one that is commonly not taken in my critters. in many parts of the world alcohol is considered a legal high with a long tradition of wine for example has been cultivated for fuzzy's of years.
for doc other drugs alcohol has side effects had alcohol abuse takes quite a toll on the body. can't. move. afterward some people treat themselves to a beer it's relaxing but how exactly does it affect our bodies. after being swallowed alcohol rapidly enters the bloodstream most of it by the small intestine. it's then transported throughout the body and inhibits the absorption of nutrients. within minutes the alcohol reaches the liver which begins to metabolize it unfortunately the byproduct of this process is more toxic than alcohol itself. in the brain alcohol disturbs the balance between inhibition and excitation it also
jacks up the release of feel good hormones like dopamine serotonin and endorphins so it first drink is typically become more talkative and outgoing the problem begins when the drinking doesn't stop. the liver can only process one unit of alcohol an hour alcohol it's toxic by products damage cells throughout the body. it results in inflammation of the a suffocates and stomach and too much drinking can damage d.n.a. in cells making drinkers more susceptible to various kinds of cancers. while the alcohol is being toxified in the liver fatty globules accumulate there replacing healthy tissue chronic excessive drinking leads to what's called a fatty liver in this condition liver function progressively declines at this stage
every drink poses a health risk. alcohol abuse damages and even kills off nerve cells in the brain in some cases leading to memory loss and cognitive impairment meanwhile the liver damage gets worse and worse scars form as cells are being destroyed by continued drinking the final stage liver cirrhosis drinkers don't feel the slowly progressing disease even if they do sleep off the short term effects. and the impact of chronic alcohol abuse can involve social as well as physical problems. cutting back on alcohol or giving it a mall together it's a good idea then if you're lucky your body will start recovering quickly if the damage isn't too advanced fatty liver can regenerate within weeks and inflammation can subside if you stick to a healthy lifestyle but that's no reason to celebrate there will always be
a residual impact it may take years for your cancer risk to be reversed if at all. just a day with another kind of substance abuse. looking at these images you might think wait. well yes that. we're going to look at quite a different kind of wheat. the kind you don't want a new field and this was super weeds which of development assistance to have a site one culprit is slender foxtail or black cross it's proven a nightmare. this is weed control the easy way blanket spraying fields with herbicides for twenty years that's been an integral part of the job for a farmer function to it but using all those chemicals has come at
a price the emergence of another unwelcome invader a super weed that powering over his prized wheat. this is black grass the main problem is that it's spreading like and that can rapidly mean a loss of income of over fifty percent. of course there are short term solutions in the form of herbicides from the agro chemical giants but even they can no longer eliminate black grass for good it's now spreading like a plague. you can see they grow. every month and if you have three or four hundred of dispersed where meters there's no room for the displaced grown ups. as will probably be the case here soon. together with you they're born a month from the regional farming authority frank stewart has been documenting the
onward march of this noxious weed the world's most widely used herbicide for example is proving increasingly ineffective. for zada sound for todd having a life or say it would normally kill everything including black grass. we now have fields in northwestern germany where it's failing in the fight against black rocks . it's shocking to see how the weeds develop such. wrong resistance as a sense is a all. that's resistance that makes the lead practically invincible with superpowers bestowed by human intervention. random genetic mutations can lead to a weed becoming resistant to a particular herbicide. once resistant black grass has infested the field sprayed with that chemical the non resistant plants competing for the space with air and die. the surviving variety
then thrives unimpeded leaving seats which in turn produce more resistant black grass weeds that evolved this way and are no longer vulnerable to new herbicides are called super winds. the rapid proliferation of multi resistant weeds has become a global problem. from the chemical industry say they might have a new product in ten or fifteen years time it used to be every five or ten years so once black grass or develop resistance to these active ingredients that be something new to replace them that it works except farmers fail to adapt that planting system and it's on balls to stay involved in it. until now chemical agents have enabled conventional farmers to grow the most profitable crops now many of them are looking enviously at colleagues they used to mock organic farmers. weeds
grow in their fields too except here they're not exterminated with chemicals. organic farmer finer bone harvest uses methods that have proven first full since the dawn of agriculture this is seeds was our ubiquitous hairy event which is a real nuisance during harvest was on the go because but we've learnt to keep it under control through howling. good time you know we have a lovely clean crop but it's a minor because it's all thanks to mechanical weed control. we called little you had worn. organic farmers are not averse to high tech methods either some now have state of the art mechanical hose that relieve fields of unwanted visitors they're fitted with cameras g.p.s. and an auto steer function. but some conventional farms have remained resistant to mechanical tillage seeing it as a step backwards from herbicides. i'm fucking that it was so easy to rig up the sprinkler still of the tank and just drive the job was over in no time
or interest would i people always claim that mechanical options were too expensive and time consuming we could hide it's fond of them at the greater efficiency argument didn't actually wash which i'm finished. so there's more to organic farming than just modern technology finer bornhorst gets to grips with weeds and other pests without chemical assistance and by following the laws of nature rather than the market he could potentially sell far more of these red potatoes every year but he prefers to rotate and only plant them every four years on the same field. then as it so often the one on the quality rapidly declines when you grow them too frequently in succession the potatoes become extremely present to disease and past slow and organic farmers can't take much action against them. so variety and long intervals between planting are the best means of producing nice healthy potatoes
the best the mr orme was on no and sure to cut off and. herbicides not hose high output crops instead of more robust varieties for years franks tooted here to that logic of the agricultural industry but no longer. fear musson aunts often for up she don't have to stop spraying everything with herbicides which are the heavy handed option. but instead we should be returning to crop. rotation and intensive tillage like in the old days like our grandfathers did. he won't stop using herbicides overnight but he is looking at alternatives such as broad beans instead of wheat perhaps not as lucrative but a more resilient crop in the long term. next time we take to the what the hell can our robot falcon. be cheap in the sky
over at ports free of charge that my client with planes. join us for that and more next time on tomorrow today.
to run beethoven. his works in the goddess fortuna. the munster intrigue of. the children gone the twenty teams. who did the fighting for the case to be taken seriously in the words of one here's what's coming up. this talk on g.w. oh they do use the female superheroes on a mission to change out to some smart women spaz smart trucks smart station a legend isn't by no means missed out on a brain creasing lean dangerous time the fuck up you made from. how's your view of the world. where i come from but oh is that clear does this go it just like this chinese food does matter where i am supposed to is reminds me of
home after decades of living in germany china is flotus one of the things i miss the most but that taking a step back i see things a little of difference we now are. made of the express as an articulation that exists the other part of the wall haven't been implemented in china that's because i'm not attacking people wondering if their foot is safe to move but if you. but i had to learn the oldest strategy it is this is the job just under so much how i see it i don't understand why i have enough my job because i tired to do it exactly maybe an hour a day my name of the uninsured and i work at your. business
Brian Williams examines the day's top political stories and current political-campaign news.
"washington post" also reports tonight the white house is preparing an executive order that authorizes the president to punish foreign interference in u.s. elections. the post writes, quote, the eight-page draft order appears to be an effort to stave off aggressive legislation, including a bill introduced in congress this month and to quell criticism that trump seems to give more credence to russian president vladimir putin's denials of interference than to u.s. intelligence agencies' conclusion to the kremlin sought to undermine the 2016 election. that comes to us as florida democratic senator bill nelson, whose running in a tough reelection fight, tells the tampa bay times, quote, russian operatives have penetrated some of florida's election systems ahead of the 2018 mid terms. he said any further information is classified. today the white house actually did impose new sanctions on
russia, but not for election meddling. the administration is penalizing the kremlin for using chemical weapons against an ex-spy and his daughter in the uk, a decision that congress had to push the white house to make. meanwhile, republican senator rand paul is in moscow this week, of all place, apparently on his own summer outreach mission to the kremlin. the senator had been one of the few open defenders on capitol hill of president trump's overtures to vladimir putin, the only defender at times. today he wrote this about his visit. quote, i was honored to deliver a letter from president trump to president vladimir putin's administration. the letter emphasized the importance of further engagement in various areas, including countering terrorism, enhancing legislative dialogue, and resuming cultural exchanges. putin was not in moscow to meet with the senator personally, we're told. the white house was quick to respond that the letter was written at senator paul's request. on that, let's bring in our lead-off panel on a wednesday night.
jonathan lemire for the associated press. robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post," and moderator of washington week on pbs. and barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. good evening and welcome to you all. robert costa, i'd like to begin with you with the proviso, the reminder to everybody watching we are seeing exactly one side of these negotiations over a sit-down meeting between the president and mueller. the mueller team doesn't talk. and as far as we know, they don't leak. so robert, is this all kind of a tv game show we're watching? is any of this truly serious or binding? and will you believe any of it until it happens? >> your healthy skepticism is right on, brian, because i've been talking to mayor giuliani in recent days and keep urging him, we'd like to see this letter, the response you've given to bob mueller and his investigators. but the president's lawyers will not release the lawyers who are relying on their accounts.
department of justice in the code there that mueller is certainly a buy the book prosecutor, and we believe that they believe that they would not for that. perhaps it's perjury. everyone, as i reported before, people around the president just feel that he is walking into a land mine situation if he goes in there, that he is so undisciplined when he speaks, and that he sometimes will try to say things to win over the room and to curry favor with these investigators. he's going to walk in there and some some mistruths or say things that aren't right or be selective in what he says and therefore as giuliani says, walk himself into perjury. the president, though, to this point is publicly saying he still wants to do this. i think the long their goes on, the more that giuliani and the legal team moves the goalpost sort of making it almost impossible for mueller to finally to agree to this. as much as the special counsel does want this interview. as bob just said that. >> need to be able to identify. they need to figure out the intent what was behind the president, the actions when he moved whether it was comey or flynn and so on. but at some point they're going to have to make a decision, if he is not going to sit down, then we have to think about the subpoena. i think at this point, giuliani and others, they're trying to run out the clock here. they know that mueller is trying not to wade into the mid terms. that if he doesn't do it then, he tables it as of labor day and revisits in november or december, even though, of course, we did see jim comey open up a federal investigation that absolutely mattered to an election just about ten days before voters went to the ballot box. >> more on that in a moment. barb, i watched giuliani on fox tonight. at a certain point, giuliani stopped talking about this.
he kind of referred to -- deferred to jay sekulow. a, it is possible one of the feds said your side should really stop talking about these negotiations? and, b, what are the feds likely to make of all this public sharing of letters and demands and no questions on obstruction and the like? >> well, ordinarily, the department of justice doesn't want to silence people who want to talk. they have first amendment rights to do that. so i'm sure they don't like it. they probably aren't happy with it. it may not even be accurate. but they're probably not going to do anything about it if giuliani and sekulow want to continue to talk about it. i don't think it advances their position in negotiating by talking about it in the public sphere. but i don't think that the justice department is going to order them to stop in any way. but you're right that the affect of it all is we get this very one-sided narrative. we dent even know whether it's true. they made representations about their letter. we haven't seen the letter and certainly we're not hearing from robert mueller. so we don't know what it says. but i do get the sense that they're slow-walking this. they're trying get themselves as close to september as possible. say we're negotiating, we're still keeping the door open because they know that as that election approaches, it's less likely that robert mueller would serve that subpoena and launch what's likely to be some very explosive litigation. >> also, barb, what is rudy talking about when he says this investigation will violate doj rules if it goes past september 1? >> well, he is conflating some things here.
i don't know whether it's intentional or not, but there are sometimes something referred to as a 60-day rule before an election, there is usually a cooling off period. the language of the rule really is very broad. it just says prosecutors shouldn't do anything to influence the outcome of an election. and what you do or don't do really depends on the facts of the case. but many people have interpreted that to be sort of a 60-day rule that says when you get 60 days out of an election, you probably should cool off and not file anything publicly. so with the elections in november, that would be about labor day. so i think there have been many suggesting that robert mueller would be unlikely to serve a subpoena then. but to suggest the investigation needs to be over by then is a very different thing. even if he does go into a cooling off period, which he may or may not do with trump on the ballot, nothing says he has to be done by that point. >> no one expects mueller to do anything incautious, a.
and b, one of the hardened cynics in our business proffered this theory tonight, and that is that by saying september 1, by getting that out into the bloodstream, rudy, who is a member of this team that says nothing really by accident. usually it's back referenced, may be getting into the public consciousness what he sees as a win if and about when mueller suspends for election season, they can say it's been properly this investigation been paused, and that's a victory for us. >> that's right, brian. talking to mayor giuliani, you see him preparing right now pour the subpoena, fight that subpoena threat, goes all the way become to march when mueller
made it in a private exchange with then trump attorney john dowd. the republican party is on edge, especially after tuesday's primaries in ohio and elsewhere about the midterm elections. they don't want to have the mueller report hanging over their heads. in my conversations with republican lawmakers on capitol hill, they're telling the white house, they're telling trump allies, they're telling giuliani and the president, anything you can to get russia off of our plate, we'd appreciate it. and they know they have to take a tough line and sanctions. the party is more hawkish than the president of russia, but they want this mueller report to be not hanging out there as a variable. and so that's why in part this is a political strategy for giuliani as much as a legal strategy. >> jonathan lemire, i want to read you the quote, two very
young promising writers a the associated press have worked together on this piece. oh, look, it's you and your co-author. trump has seethed to confidantes that he views the manafort charges as a warning shot from mueller. he has told those close to him that as he watches the courtroom proceedings, he fears that donald trump jr. could at some point be the one on trial, left out all the careful sourcing that you were careful to put in this. you're just back from bedminster, new jersey. how is the president enjoying his vacation? >> we haven't seen too much of him on the vacation. >> exactly the way they planned it. >> that's right. he did have a dinner with business leader last night. we saw the first few minutes of it. but largely he has been laying
low. the white house hasn't been speaking out who he has been reading with and golfing with. we know over the last ten days or so, we have seen reflected in his tweets, as well as these private conversations how upset he has been watching the manafort trial day after day. it's the cable coverage, it's in his face. it's mostly you, inescapable every day that he sees it there. and that he -- as he's told people around him, he feels that sort of mueller's opening act. even though this trial is not about russia, but he feels mueller's hand is involved, obviously manafort was a prominent part of his campaign and it's a sense of what could still be to come. even though he doesn't believe his son did anything wrong, but he suggests that a, he inadvertently broke the law, perhaps, or b, he is simply the victim of a witch-hunt. stop me if you've heard that before from the president. and in this case, he feels that that could be next. and that is something that even though publicly he is suggesting i'm not worried about don jr., privately he is. don jr. himself also very much taking this brash approach, moving for ward. he has become a very popular surrogate among republicans for the midterm elections crisscrossing the country. so he is not letting this slow him down. >> big thanks to our big three on a wednesday night in august. jonathan lemire, robert costa, barbara quaid. thank you. coming up, he went big for trump early, arrested and charged by a trump appointee at the justice department for something he might have been photographed doing at the white house on the lawn. and later, the president says he's five for five. others in his own party, however, are scoring the situation a bit differently with the midterms 90 days away. "the 11th hour" just getting started on wednesday night.
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the white house lawn june 2017. indeed, he is visible in picture there's from that day. pictures that appear to show him on his phone at times. it's alleged that during the event, he received an e-mail from the ceo of the company informing him of bad news that a key drug trial had failed. collins was on the board of the company. but armed with that insider information, the feds say he immediately called his son. the indictment says collins' son cameron sold a large block of stock and tipped off others, including his fiancee's father, who is also facing charges of insider trading. the feds allege they avoided in all more than $700,000 in losses by dumping the stock when they did. u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, a trump appointee, by the way, said someone who helps write the laws
of this land act as if they didn't apply to him. >> congressman collins cheated our markets and our justice system. these charges are a reminder that this is a nation of laws. and that everybody stands equal before the bar of justice. >> all three men, including the congressman pleaded not guilty in manhattan federal court. earlier tonight in buffalo, collins said he is looking forward to clear his name. >> the charges that have been levied against me are meritless, and i will mount a vigorous defense in court to clear my name. i look forward to being fully vindicated and exonerated, ending any and all questions relating to my affiliation with an aide. >> congressman says he is not only staying in his seat, his name will be on the ballot as he is running for reelection in november. meanwhile, house speaker paul ryan has stripped collins of his post on energy and commerce pending an investigation into the accusations. with us tonight to talk about it, daniel goldman, former assistant u.s. attorney for, wait for it, the southern district of new york, who prosecuted an insider trading case just last year. and shane goalmacher is back with us. welcome to you both. shane, i don't want this to become an episode of billion, but we have upstate political players and power bosses and we
have the aforementioned southern district of new york. talk about this seat. how safe was it for collins? what was his position in the new york delegation? and what would it take for those political bosses to say, you know what? this seat is too valuable. we need you to step aside. >> well, his position in the new york delegation shifted dramatically the day he endorsed donald trump. he was the first member of congress to do that, because after that he became a senior member when trump became president because suddenly he had entree to the white house. the president was calling him on the phone. he became an important member of the delegation. he wasn't before. he was a back bench member. and he represents the trumpiest seat in new york. donald trump won almost 60% there, more than any other seat in the state. this is seen as a safe republican seat, except candidates running under
indictment are almost never actually safe. >> counselor, correct me if i'm wrong, other when there is an earnings call and a stock takes a tumble, or skyrockets up, when there is an event that cause as stock to tumble or soar, doesn't the s.e.c., don't the feds kind of rewind the tapes two, three days and look for any large blocks of stock, any significant movement of stock? and you've got guys like this member of congress. don't they understand people are watching and listening? >> well, it is interesting. finra, which is the sort of nonprofit arm funded by congress has algorithms that goes back and looks at all of these things. and that's where a lot of these investigations begin. but, you know, it was a small, small stock generally speaking. it was 50 cents when this occurred, or when this information was relayed to him. it was very difficult to trade in the united states. it was only over the counter. it was not on a larger exchange because it's an australian stock. so i think it was -- it seems, if you can put yourself in his
mind-set, it was almost instinctive, like i got this information, i got to tell my son. i can't sell my shares, which is laid out in the indictment as to why he can't, including the fact that his shares were in australia and there was a moratorium on trading them. so i'm just going to tell my son. and then his son took it and told everybody else. but this guy was on the board of this company. he has a fiduciary duty to maintain the confidentiality of what is clearly inside information. and for someone in elected office to completely abdicate that responsibility and pass along information that he unquestionably knew he should not be doing is a blatant violation of the law. >> by the way, 50 cents a share. we're talking about a lot of stock, if they were stemming losses potentially close to 3/4 of a million dollars? >> yeah. the stock went down 92% after this was made public. >> a true penny stock after this. shane, the problem with the seat
and the area in new york state where it's located is how cruel the economy was to that real estate, that part of new york state. the optics of a member of congress cozy with the trump white house on the lawn, on the south lawn, on his phone. it looks very swampy. and if the right democrat comes along in that district and says this is the rich getting richer. must be nice to be at a picnic at the white house, must be nice to avoid three quarters of a million dollars. you could see red turn to blue. >> the democrats don't have the candidate they wanted in this race. it's a local elected official progressive activist. but the governor was actually trying to get his running mate, kathy hoch toll leave the
governorship and run for congress. he publicly basically lobbied for her to do so. she lost to chris collins a few years back. she said no. so they ended up with this progressive activist. he has almost no money, about $81,000 in the bank. chris collins has $1.3 million in campaign cash and millions in personal funds he can tap into. but he is already running up legal bills. may not want to front the legal bills himself. he may want to use the campaign money to pay off things. he spent $250 million already to the law firm defending him. if you're facing jail time and you have millions of dollar, i think you spend as much as you can to not go behind bars. that's one of the hopes the democrats have over the long run. the seat went from off the board to on the board. this may not be the most competitive seat in new york. it may not be the most competitive seat certainly in the country. but it's something that certainly the republicans are going to have to look at you.
saw that video, right? this is on the white house lawn, on camera, on the phone. that is a devastating political ad. >> daniel, roughly how many years is he looking at if convicted? >> guessing in the four to five-year range. >> okay. gentlemen, thank you. we couldn't help but note goldman and goldmacher would make great letterhead. thank you both very much. coming up, prosecutors in the trial of paul manafort may be resting their case. and tonight what's now an open question. is the judge in this case making the case more difficult for the feds, when we come back.
day seven in the trial of the president's former campaign chairman and jacket enthusiast paul manafort, and the star witness against manafort took the stand for a third straight day. rick gates pleaded guilty to helping manafort commit tax and bank fraud. manafort's defense made another attempt to discredit gates by pointing out he embezzled from his boss, and they called his character into question, getting gates to admit on the stand that he made many, many mistakes over the years. but the real meat of today's testimony came in the form of financial documents and flow charts. an fbi forensic accountant testified that manafort's lavish purchases coincided with massive wire transfers from foreign banks. an irs agent told the jury manafort hid $16 million from
the government, and that his 2014 tax return was, quote, false. back with us is barbara mcquade, who not only is a former u.s. attorney, she was in court for today's readings. we can't thank her enough for staying late to talk about it with us. barbara, what does the jury make of this thing thus far? we've gone from are ostrich jackets to mention of four extramarital affairs to a man they know is the star witness. >> one of the things today i thought was a great recovery day for the government. after sort of this roller coaster ride of rick gates on the stand, they had sort of a stomach soothing day with these two experts. the forensic accountant and the irs revenue agent who did a very nice job, rather tedious presentation, but went through charts that they had compiled that showed very meticulously thats it was paul manafort who controlled these accounts overseas, that wire transfers went from the accounts to buy his luxury goods, the suits, the rugs, the car, the homes, and all of those things, and that this income did not show up on his income tax return. so i thought that was very methodical. it was exactly what they needed
after hearing from rick gates. you know, they often refer to that as if the cooperator sandwich, you want to put the cooperator whose testimony is likely to be risky in the middle of the case. that seems to be exactly what the government is doing. >> and i want to ask you about this federal judge again. well talked about him last night. but the question is what did this judge do today that got your attention and why? >> well, one of the things he did today, again, is interjecting his own views about the case when it's supposed to be the jury who is the fact finder. at one point, this forensic accountant testified that two of paul manafort's purported signatures appeared to her to be different. and the judge remarked you think those signatures are different? well, i guess the jury will decide. what is the jury supposed to make of that? he is almost testifying.
so these interjections i think are incredibly inappropriate. now it may be that if and when the defense puts on a case, he does the same thing to them. but i do think that there are messages that the jury gets in these cases. the thing that bothers me the most is in his obsession, really to move the case along quickly, he often refuses to allow the jury to see exhibits in realtime. he says they can look at those later. but i think in a case as complex as this, it's really important to see those exhibits as they're coming in. you know, a trial is supposed to be a show-and-tell. they're getting the tell part, but not necessarily the show. and the idea of going back later and finding which one of these bank records matches up to the testimony of the witness is really difficult. so he allowed more of that today, of seeing these charts that were made by these experts, but i do worry about keeping those documents out of the view of the jury as we move things quickly to the detriment of the government who has the burden of proof. if the jury is not convinced, they means they can't find the defendant guilty. >> as paul newman's character said, your honor, if you're going to try my case, try not to lose it. barbara mcquade, whose days
start very early in that courtroom and who was so kind to stay late and bring us up to date on this trial. can't thank you enough. >> my pleasure, brian. thanks. coming up for us, one party's big voter turnout. the arrest of a republican member of congress, and a reality tv star's claim of secret recordings. there she is, of president donald trump, her old boss. the growing problems for the grand old parties when we come back.
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to be the clean government party is a powerful place to be. >> that's what a former republican sounds like. political strategist steve schmidt reacting to the current situation we're watching in washington after republican congressman chris collins was arrested and charged with insider trading and lying to the government earlier today. the charges against collins come as republicans trying to figure out a game plan, perhaps leading into the mid terms in 90 days. last night's special election in an ohio district that trump won by 11 points still too close to call as our network sees it right now. robert costa of "the washington post," who we had on earlier tonight, puts it this way. talking about all of last night's results, many republican strategists viewed the results as a dark omen three months ahead of election day, saying
they illustrate the limits of trump's ability to boost candidates, particularly in suburban areas where the president's popularity has suffered. even in republican primaries, securing trump's endorsement was not a guarantee of electoral success. we are so happy tonight to be joined by both eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post," and a.b. stoddard, a columnist and associate editor at real clear politics. eugene, what's happening in the republican party? what's happening in the electorate, and is it such a moving target that if i ask you on monday, your answer could perhaps be different? >> oh, totally, totally. >> i'll wait and ask you. >> so, but here we are on wednesday, and we just had some elections yesterday. so you can say the republican party is looking at some substantial losses in the midterm election. they're looking down that barrel. >> as in no more speaker ryan? >> certainly could be. and i think you'd say that's likely now. like i will only lasts for a
couple of days in this era, apparently. but right now you'd have to say that's likely. you know, democrats have to close the deal, right? they have an edge on in enthusiasm. you saw that again last night. clearly, they have made a whole lot of what should be safe republican districts competitive. but they got to close the deal. and one they can fail to do that is being complacent about last night's results. donald trump went to that district in ohio, and it looks like he might have brought the republican balderson across the finish line, right? 1500 votes right now. it's too close to call. so we can't -- we don't know. but he's ahead by 1500 votes. and that could have made the difference of those 1500 votes. you can't doubt that he boosted gop enthusiasm to some degree in that district. and democrats should prepare for that. i mean, they have to amp it up too. >> a.b., our friend eugene is not hyperbolic.
he is a level headed man who i've known for long time. and yet i'm looking at the headline on his column. trump's rally rhetoric is going to get somebody killed. and sadly, there is a good chance eugene may be right. and you combine that, that speaks to the tone and tenor of our times with all this politics we're seeing. the question to you is, what are republicans really talking about in cloakrooms and restaurants and homes? >> right. what's interesting is that troy polamal -- troy balderson, if he won, it would have been because trump. as trump comes and rallies and his reporters love all that disgusting stuff about the fake news and all the stuff he does, all of that aggressive talk really riles them up, and they enjoy it. so when you're in the house and you're looking too hold the house, and you're at the nrcc, the campaign committee, you're looking at the map, you think that's fine for donald trump to go to senate -- help senate republicans in states he won by landslide margins. he can't go to swing districts in the house if they risk losing, and they need to defend their majority. he is welcome in safe districts,
but they aren't the ones that they need to hold. >> and those are a moving target too. >> so that's really -- right. >> the definition of safe. >> if you look at the political report data that republicans -- that's making them so nervous, it's that if you -- they did a comparison recently from august of 2006 to november. august of 2010 to november. there are more competitive seats this august, and those numbers always grow. and they have no idea. it's 53 right now. they have no idea where it's going go november 6th. >> think of the day the president is having today, while he is keeping his campaign chairman continue on trial. >> deputy campaign director is the star witness. >> the star witness. his first supporter in congress is arrested and indicted and arrested today. and there are the election results from last night which he puts a brave face on. i'm sure people have explained to him this really isn't that good, mr. president. so i think you can anticipate in the next few days he might be on a jag. i think a tweet storm is coming.
>> don't forget there is somewhere there is an ostrich saying was it really worth to it kill my brother so this guy could have a jacket. a.b., you're such a nice person, you don't deserve this. multiple sources with direct knowledge of the situation tell the daily bowes that omarosa newman, the infamous star secretly recorded conversations with the president, conversations she has since leveraged while shopping her forthcoming tell-all book bluntly titled "unhinged." a.b., nice person, level headed person, what does this say about our time? >> what this says about president trump is he asked for this. i'm told that the omarosa character was the viper, and you didn't mess with her, she was not loyal to anybody. she was happy to cause trouble and she would turn on you. he let her into the west wing. she had a nebulous job. no one knew what she did. if this is true, the danger of trump and omarosa is they are not in the reputation preservation business. they're unembarrassable. >> you sure you never really watched? >> i don't do reality tv. >> but think about -- think about it, though. he brought a reality television contestant into the white house
>> don't forget there is somewhere there is an ostrich saying was it really worth to it kill my brother so this guy could have a jacket. a.b., you're such a nice person, you don't deserve this. multiple sources with direct knowledge of the situation tell the daily bowes that omarosa newman, the infamous star secretly recorded conversations with the president, conversations she has since leveraged while shopping her forthcoming tell-all book bluntly titled "unhinged." a.b., nice person, level headed person, what does this say about our time? >> what this says about president trump is he asked for this. i'm told that the omarosa character was the viper, and you didn't mess with her, she was not loyal to anybody. she was happy to cause trouble and she would turn on you. he let her into the west wing. she had a nebulous job. no one knew what she did. if this is true, the danger of trump and omarosa is they are not in the reputation preservation business. they're unembarrassable. >> you sure you never really watched? >> i don't do reality tv. >> but think about -- think about it, though. he brought a reality television contestant into the white house
as a senior adviser. in the west wing. >> think about this. he worked in this building and received a paycheck from this company for 14 years. eugene robinson and a.b. stoddard, our thanks. terrific conversation. i think she has been sneaking reality television. coming up, as we have reported, the trump presidency has been very good for the book publishing business. there is a new one, already up to number two in new releases in just 24 hours on amazon, and it's unambiguous. it's equally unambiguous author standing by to join us.
it's called "everything trump touches dies," a republican strategist gets real about the worst president ever. in it, rick wilson writes "while imitation of trump is the stupidest form of political flattery, is r the plague of trump-like candidates racing toward their own doom keeps growing. republican primaries have become contests for the dar awards. donald trump causes him dumb as a rock which our guest wears as a bang of honor. you have a dedicated following on social media. i'm among them. the book is a heck of a journey. how did the trump era happen? it takes two to tango in politics. there were some really good republican candidates. >> absolutely. >> how did this happen? when people ask you that question, what's your answer?
>> this was a failure of leadership at the highest levels of the party, and that includes reince priebus and the money part of the party, all those 17 candidates who were considered some of the best and brightest in the field and all of them ris read the situation and all the professional class guys like me misread the situation, too. a lot of us thought this guy is a joke, he's a clown, he's going to self-destruct. we didn't reckon with people vote ford a candidate who they thought was a character he played on reality television 14 years in a huge hit show for this network and for trump. the misreads and missteps it's a gigantic leadership failure. now that he's in the presidency and his behavior and his leadership and his governance is such a train wreck, they're trying to pretend this is the new way we do things and they've had to walk away from every principle that republicans have ever stated that they believed in. and we've got a president who gompbz by rage tweets from the toilet at 6:00 in the morning. so the journey getting here as a
guy who was a party loyalist and who fought in the trenches for 30 years in the conservative movement in the republican party, it wasn't an easy transition. but i sleep well every night. i'm comfortable with it. >> as opposed to some of those you've chosen in the book, you go through the individuals attracted to work for trump. and you give them outside of a benny hannah, you don't see a filet job like this individually. do us is the honor, one of the passages that already got me we've excised a dirty word from the first sentence. this is your own writing. first two paragraphs on steve bannon. will you give us a reading? >>. >> the brightest hottest weirdest blank star in the trump constellation from the moment of the donald's unexpected electoral victory was steve bannon. if you're looking for the white hot center of esoteric trumpism, bannon is the architect. once you get past the homeless drifter with a hitchhiker's head
in his backpack, bannon who looks like a spokesperson for a go out med, he is known for his multiple shirts. the tactical operator pants are haul washings of his style. persistently rumpled, he was no one's idea of the white house's dull but suit and tie culture. his eyes stare and odd constellation of facial moles make him look. >> that's the book's dedication. i'm kidding. that is just the portion on rick bannon. rick agreed to stay with us over the back. when we come back, i'm going to ask him how this all ends. welcome back. rick wilson agreed to stay with
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strong international alliances that protect america from the vis sisitudes of wild foreign affair swings. all those things have been abandoned. at some point, either the democrats will pick up the mantle of some of those things and own them. they have a huge market opportunity to own fiscal discipline because we're spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave. and the debt is rising. deficit is rising. we've made a huge bet with this tax bill helping 150 guys down on wall street. all those things unless you want to reset on them and do the hard work of it, the party will become the trump party and maybe a conservative party emerges from that and hives off from it. but it's a very dark path ahead. we -- the statism and nationalist populism that
defines trump lymph will become under the republican brand is unsellable to people younger than 55. >> what is your 30-second answer to how does it end? how does the trump era end? >> that whole scene in mad max where the guy is playing the guitar, pretty much like. trump will collapse of his own weight. he's a man under enormous pressure. this is not a comfortable space for him. he thought it was going to be a prank and joke and make a ton of money off of it. you can tell he is fiscally and mentally uncomfortable with the position he's in as president. i don't think it lasts. >> which can wilson's new book "everything trump touches dies" is presently ranked number two among new releases on amazon. where it has leapfrogged the russia hoax by gregg jarrett and now trails only this, "stay sexy and don't get murdered," which i think is good advice for all of us. with our thanks to rick wilson for joining us, that is our broadcast on a wednesday night. thank you so very much for being with us. good night for all of us here at nbc news headquarters in new york.
Brian Williams examines the day's top political stories and current political-campaign news.
Brian Williams examines the day's top political stories and current political-campaign news.
he said, "any further information is classified." today the white house actually did impose new sanctions on russia, but not for election meddling. the administration is penalizing the kremlin for using chemical weapons against an ex-spy and his daughter in the uk, a decision that congress had to push the white house to make. meanwhile, republican senator rand paul is in moscow this week, of all places, apparently on his own summer outreach mission to the kremlin. the senator had been one of the few open defenders on capitol hill of president trump's overtures to vladimir putin, the only defender at times. today he wrote this about his visit. quote, "i was honored to deliver a letter from president trump to president vladimir putin's administration. the letter emphasized the importance of further engagement in various areas, including countering terrorism, enhancing legislative dialogue, and resuming cultural exchanges." putin was not in moscow to meet with the senator personally, we're told. the white house was quick to respond that the letter was written at senator paul's
Brian Williams examines the day's top political stories and current political-campaign news.
trap is forbidden. and that is when you have no legitimate purpose for calling someone the a grand jury other than to try to catch them in a lie. that is, you don't believe they've committed any other crime. but you're going to try to catch them in a lie so you can charge them with that lie. i think in this instance it's clear that robert mueller has a lot of legitimate questions that he wants to ask of president trump. and the idea that it's a perjury trap only exists if he chooses to lie. >> now jonathan lemire, the question for you which may call for a judgment, what is greater do you think in the trump camp? the fear of a subpoena or the fear of perjury? >> i think they're worried about both. i mean, they believe they have legal arguments to protect them against a subpoena. they don't believe that the department of justice in the code there that mueller is certainly a buy the book prosecutor, and we believe that they believe that they would not for that. perhaps it's perjury. everyone as i've said before and i reported before, people around the president just feel that he's -- it's walking into a land
course, we did see jim comey open up a federal investigation that absolutely mattered to an election just about ten days before voters went to the ballot box. >> more on that in a moment. barb, i watched giuliani with sean on fox tonight. it was interesting. at a certain point, giuliani stopped talking about this. he kind of referred to -- deferred to jay sekulow. a, is it possible one of the feds said your side should really stop talking about these negotiations? and b, what are the feds likely to make of all this public sharing of letters and demands and no questions on obstruction and the like? >> well, ordinarily, the department of justice doesn't want to silence people who want to talk. they have first amendment rights to do that. so i'm sure they don't like it. they probably aren't happy with it. it may not even be accurate. but they're probably not going to do anything about it if giuliani and sekulow want to continue to talk about it. i don't think it advances their
position in negotiating by talking about it in the public sphere. but i don't think that the justice department is going to order them to stop in any way. but you're right that the effect of it all is we get this very one-sided narrative. we don't even know whether it's true. they made representations about their letter. we haven't seen the letter and certainly we're not hearing from robert mueller. so we don't know what it says. but i do get the sense that they're slow-walking this. they're trying to get themselves as close to september as possible. say we're negotiating, we're still keeping the door open because they know that as that election approaches, it's less likely that robert mueller would serve that subpoena and launch what's likely to be some very explosive litigation. >> also, barb, what is rudy talking about when he says this investigation will violate doj rules if it goes past september 1? >> well, he is conflating some things here. i don't know whether it's intentional or not, but there are sometimes something referred to as a 60-day rule before an election, there is usually a cooling off period.
the language of the rule really is very broad. it just says prosecutors shouldn't do anything to influence the outcome of an election. and what you do or don't do really depends on the facts of the case. but many people have interpreted that to be sort of a 60-day rule that says when you get 60 days out of an election, you probably should cool off and not file anything publicly. so with the elections in november, that would be about labor day. so i think there have been many suggesting that robert mueller would be unlikely to serve a subpoena then. but to suggest the investigation needs to be over by then is a very different thing. even if he does go into a cooling off period, which he may or may not do without trump on the ballot, nothing says he has to be done by that point. >> bob, on that point no one expects mueller to do anything incautious, a. and b, one of the hardened cynics in our business proffered this theory tonight, and that is that by saying september 1, by getting that out into the bloodstream, rudy, who is a member of this team that says
nothing really by accident, usually it's back-referenced, may be getting into the public consciousness what he sees as a win if and when mueller suspends on or about september 1st for election season they can say it's been properly, this investigation's been paused and that's a victory for us. >> that's right, brian. talking to mayor giuliani, you see him preparing right now for the subpoena fight. that subpoena threat goes all the way back to march when mueller made it in a private exchange with then trump attorney john dowd. the republican party is on edge, especially after tuesday's primaries in ohio and elsewhere about the midterm elections. they don't want to have the mueller report hanging over their heads. so in my conversations with republican lawmakers on capitol hill, they're telling the white house, they're telling trump allies, they're telling giuliani and the president, anything you can to get russia off of our plate, we'd appreciate it. and they know they have to take a tough line and sanctions. the party is more hawkish than
the president on russia, but they want this mueller report to be not hanging out there as a variable. and so that's why in part this is a political strategy for giuliani as much as a legal strategy. >> jonathan lemire, i want to read you the quote, two very young promising writers at the associated press have worked together on this piece. oh, look, it's you and your co-author. "trump has seethed to confidantes that he views the manafort charges as a warning shot from mueller. he has told those close to him that as he watches the courtroom proceedings he fears that donald trump jr. could at some point be the one on trial." left out all the careful sourcing that you were careful to put in this. you're just back from bedminster, new jersey. how is the president enjoying his vacation? >> we haven't seen too much of him on the vacation. >> exactly the way they planned it. >> that's right. he did have a dinner with business leaders last night. we saw the first few minutes of it. but largely he has been laying low. the white house hasn't been reading out who he's been speaking with and golfing with.
we know over the last ten days or so, we have seen reflected in his tweets, as well as these private conversations, how upset he has been watching the manafort trial day after day. it's the cable coverage, it's in his face. it's mostly you, inescapable every day that he sees it there. and that he -- as he's told people around him, he feels that that's sort of mueller's opening act. even though this trial is not about russia, but he feels mueller's hand is involved, obviously manafort was a prominent part of his campaign and it's a sense of what could still be to come. even though the president tells people around him he doesn't believe his son did anything wrong. but he suggests that equality, a, he inadvertently broke the law perhaps or, b, he's simply the victim a witch hunt. stop me if you've heard that before from the president. and in this case, he feels that that could be next. and that is something that even though publicly he is suggesting i'm not worried about don jr., privately he is. don jr. himself also very much taking this brash approach, moving forward. he has become a very popular surrogate among republicans for
the midterm elections crisscrossing the country. so he is not letting this slow him down. >> big thanks to our big three on a wednesday night in august. jonathan lemire, robert costa, barbara mcquade. thank you. coming up, a prom nept member of congress who went big for trump early arrested and charged by a trump appointee at the justice department for something he might have been photographed doing at the white house on the lawn. and later, the president says he's five for five. others in his own party, however, are scoring the situation a bit differently with the midterms 90 days away. "the 11th hour" just getting started on wednesday night. are you ready to take your wifi to the next level?
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information, the feds say he immediately called his son. the indictment says collins' son cameron sold a large block of stock and tipped off others, including his fiancee's father, who is also facing charges of insider trading. the feds allege they avoided in all more than $700,000 in losses by dumping the stock when they did. u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, a trump appointee, by the way, said someone who helps write the laws of this land act as if they didn't apply to him. >> congressman collins cheated our markets and our justice system. these charges are a reminder that this is a nation of laws. and that everybody stands equal before the bar of justice. >> all three men, including the congressman, pleaded not guilty in manhattan federal court. earlier tonight in buffalo, collins said he is looking forward to clear his name. >> the charges that have been levied against me are meritless, and i will mount a vigorous
defense in court to clear my name. i look forward to being fully vindicated and exonerated, ending any and all questions relating to my affiliation with innate. >> the congressman says he is not only staying in his seat, his name will be on the ballot as he is running for re-election in november. meanwhile, house speaker paul ryan has stripped collins of his committee post on energy and commerce pending an investigation into the accusations. with us tonight to talk about it, daniel goldman, former assistant u.s. attorney for, wait for it, the southern district of new york, who prosecuted an insider trading case just last year. and shane goldmacher is back with us. chief metro political correspondent for the "new york times." welcome to you both. shane, i don't want this to become an episode of "billions," but we have upstate political players and power bosses and we have the aforementioned southern district of new york.
talk about this seat. how safe was it for collins? what was his position in the new york delegation? and what would it take for those political bosses to say, you know what? this seat is too valuable. we need you to step aside. >> well, his position in the new york delegation shifted dramatically the day he endorsed donald trump. he was the first member of congress to do so. because after that he became a senior member when trump became president because suddenly he had entree to the white house. the president was calling him on the phone. he became an important member of the delegation. he wasn't before. he was a back bench member. and he represents the trumpiest seat in new york. donald trump won almost 60% there, more than any other seat in the state. this is seen as a safe republican seat, except candidates running under indictment are almost never actually safe. >> counselor, correct me if i'm wrong, other when there is an earnings call and a stock takes
a tumble, or skyrockets up, when there is an event that causes a stock to tumble or soar, doesn't the s.e.c., don't the feds kind of rewind the tapes two, three days and look for any large blocks of stock, any significant movement of stock? and you've got guys like this member of congress. don't they understand people are watching and listening? >> well, it is interesting. finra, which is the sort of nonprofit arm funded by congress, has algorithms that goes back and looks at all of these things. and that's where a lot of these investigations begin. but you know, it was a small -- small stock generally speaking. it was 50 cents when this occurred, or when this information was relayed to him. it was very difficult to trade in the united states. it was only over the counter. it was not on a larger exchange because it's an australian stock. so i think it was -- it seems,
if you can put yourself in his mindset, it was almost instinctive, like i got this information, i got to tell my son. i can't sell my shares, which is laid out in the indictment as to why he can't, including the fact that his shares were in australia and there was a moratorium on trading them. so i'm going to just tell my son. and then his son took it and told everybody else. but this guy was on the board of this company. he has a fiduciary duty to maintain the confidentiality of what is clearly inside information. and for someone in elected office to completely abdicate that responsibility and pass along information that he unquestionably knew he should not be doing is a blatant violation of the law. >> by the way, 50 cents a share. we're talking about a lot of stock, if they were stemming losses potentially close to 3/4 of a million dollars? >> yeah. the stock went down 92% after this was made public. >> a true penny stock after this.
shane, the problem with the seat and the area in new york state where it's located is how cruel the economy was to that real estate, that part of new york state. the optics of a member of congress cozy with the trump white house on the lawn, on the south lawn, on his phone. it looks very swampy. and if the right democrat comes along in that district and says this is the rich getting richer. must be nice to be at a picnic at the white house, must be nice to avoid three quarters of a million dollars in stock losses as alleged. you could see red turn to blue, could you not? >> you could. one challenge is the democrats don't have the candidate they wanted in this race. it's a local elected official progressive activist. but the governor was actually trying to get his running mate, kathy hochul to leave the lieutenant governorship and run for this seat. he publicly basically lobbied for her to do so. she lost to chris collins a few years back. she said no. so they ended up with this progressive activist. he has almost no money, about $81,000 in the bank.
chris collins has $1.3 million in campaign cash and millions in personal funds he can tap into. but he is already running up legal bills. he may not want to front the legal bills himself. he may want to use the campaign money to pay off things. he spent $250,000 already at a law firm that's defending him. but look, if you're facing jail time and you have millions of dollars i think you spend as much as you can to not go behind bars. frankly that's one of the hopes the democrats have over the long run. but look, this seat went from off the board to on the board. right? this may not be the most competitive seat in new york. it may not be the most competitive seat certainly in the country. but it's something that certainly the republicans are going to have to look at you. you saw that video, right? this is on the white house lawn, on camera, on the phone. that is a devastating political ad. >> daniel, roughly how many years is he looking at if convicted? >> guessing in the four to five-year range. >> okay. gentlemen, thank you. we couldn't help but note goldman and goldmacher would make great letterhead if they were going to form a
firm of some point. daniel goldman, shane goldmacher, thank you both very much. coming up, prosecutors in the trial of paul manafort may be days away from resting their case. and tonight what's now an open question. is the judge in this case making the case more difficult for the feds? when we come back. beginning ... it was always our singular focus, a distinct determination. to do whatever it takes, use every possible resource. to fight cancer. and never lose sight of the patients we're fighting for. our cancer treatment specialists share the same vision. experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. specialists focused on treating cancer. using advanced technologies. and more precise treatments than before. working as hard as we can- doing all that we can- for everyone who walks through our doors. this is cancer treatment centers of america. and these are the specialists we're proud to call our own.
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paul manafort, and the star witness against manafort took the stand for a third straight day. rick gates pleaded guilty to helping manafort commit tax and bank fraud. manafort's defense made another attempt to discredit gates by pointing out he embezzled from his boss, and they called his character into question, getting gates to admit on the stand that he made many, many mistakes over the years. but the real meat of today's testimony came in the form of financial documents and flow charts. an fbi forensic accountant testified that manafort's lavish purchases coincided with massive wire transfers from foreign banks. an irs agent told the jury manafort hid $16 million from the government, and that his 2014 tax return was, quote, false. back with us is barbara mcquade, who not only is a former u.s. attorney, she was in court for today's proceedings. we can't thank her enough for staying late to talk about it with us. barbara, what does the jury make of this thing so far?
we've gone from ostrich jackets to mention of four extramarital affairs for a man they know is the star witness. >> one of the things today i thought was a great recovery day for the government. after sort of this roller coaster ride of rick gates on the stand, they had sort of a stomach-soothing day with these two experts. the forensic accountant and the irs revenue agent, who did a very nice job, rather tedious presentation, but went through charts that they had compiled that showed very meticulously that it was paul manafort who controlled these accounts overseas, that wire transfers went from those accounts to buy his luxury goods, the suits, the rugs, the car, the homes, and all of those things, and that this income did not show up on his income tax return. so i thought that was very methodical. it was exactly what they needed after hearing from rick gates. you know, they often refer to that as the cooperator sandwich. you want to put the cooperator whose testimony is likely to be risky in the middle of the case.
you want to start strong and end strong and put that cooperator in the middle. and that seems to be exactly what the government is doing. >> and i want to ask you about this federal judge again. we talked about him last night. but the question is what did this judge do today that got your attention and why? >> well, one of the things he did today again is interjecting his own views about the case when it's supposed to be the jury who is the fact finder. at one point this forensic accountant testified that two of paul manafort's purported signatures appeared to her to be different. and the judge remarked, "you think those signatures are different? well, i guess the jury will decide." what is the jury supposed to make of that? he's almost testifying. so these interjections i think are incredibly inappropriate. now, it may be that if and when the defense puts on a case, he does the same thing to them. but i do think that there are messages that the jury gets in these cases. the thing that bothers me the most is in his obsession, really, to move the case along quickly he often refuses to allow the jury to see exhibits in real time.
he says they can look at those later. but i think in a case as complex as this it's really important to see those exhibits as they're coming in. you know, a trial is supposed to be a show-and-tell. they're getting the tell part, but not necessarily the show. and the idea of going back later and finding which one of these bank records matches up to the testimony of the witness is really difficult. so he allowed more of that today, of seeing these charts that were made by these experts, but i do worry about keeping those documents out of the view of the jury as we move things quickly to the detriment of the government who has the burden of proof. if the jury is not convinced, they means they can't find the defendant guilty. >> as paul newman's character said in the great courtroom movie "the verdict," "your honor, if you're going to try my case, try not to lose it." barbara mcquade, whose days start very early in that courtroom and who was so kind to stay late and bring us up to date on this trial. can't thank you enough. appreciate it. >> my pleasure, brian. thanks. coming up for us, one party's big voter turnout. the arrest of a republican
member of congress. and a reality tv star's claim of secret recordings. there she is. of president donald trump, her old boss. the growing problems for the grand old party when we come back.
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situation we're watching in washington after republican congressman chris collins was arrested and charged with insider trading and lying to the government earlier today. the charges against collins come as republicans trying to figure out a game plan, perhaps leading into the mid terms in 90 days. last night's special election in an ohio district that trump won by 11 points still too close to call as our network sees it right now. robert costa of "the washington post," who we had on earlier tonight, puts it this way. talking about all of last night's results, "many republican strategists viewed the results as a dark omen three months ahead of election day, saying they illustrate the limits of trump's ability to boost candidates, particularly in suburban areas where the president's popularity has suffered. even in republican primaries, securing trump's endorsement was not a guarantee of electoral success." we are so happy tonight to be joined by both eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post," and
a b. stoddard, veteran washington journalist, a column exist associate editor at real clear politics. eugene, what's happening in the republican party? what's happening in the electorate? and is it such a moving target that if i ask you on monday your answer could perhaps be different? >> oh, totally, totally. >> i'll wait and ask you. >> so, but here we are on wednesday, and we just had some elections yesterday. so you can say the republican party is looking at some substantial losses in the midterm election. they're looking down that barrel. >> as in no more speaker ryan? >> certainly could be. and i think you'd say that's likely now. likely only lasts for a couple of days in this era, apparently. but right now you'd have to say that's likely.
you know, democrats have to close the deal, right? they have an edge on in enthusiasm. you saw that again last night. clearly, they have made a whole lot of what should be safe republican districts competitive. but they've got to close the deal. and one they can fail to do that is being complacent about last night's results. donald trump went to that district in ohio, and it looks like he might have brought the republican balderson across the finish line, right? 1500 votes right now. it's too close to call. so we can't -- we don't know. but he's ahead by 1500 votes. and that could have made the difference of those 1500 votes. you can't doubt that he boosted gop enthusiasm to some degree in that district. and democrats should prepare for that. i mean, they have to amp it up too. >> a.b., our friend eugene is
not hyperbolic. he is a level-headed man who i've known for long time. and yet i'm looking at the headline on his column. trump's rally rhetoric is going to get somebody killed. and sadly, there is a good chance eugene may be right. and you combine that, that speaks to the tone and tenor of our times with all this politics we're seeing. the question to you is, what are republicans really talking about in cloakrooms and restaurants and homes? >> right. what's interesting is that troy balderson, if he won, it would have been because of trump as eugene said. and if he lost it would have been because of trump. so as trump comes and rallies and his supporters love all that stuff about the disgusting fake news and everything he does, really all of that aggressive talk really riles them up and they enjoy it. so when you're in the house and you're looking to hold the
house, and you're at the nrcc, the campaign committee, you're looking at the map, you think that's fine for donald trump to go to senate -- help senate republicans in states he won by landslide margins. he can't go to swing districts in the house if they risk losing, and they need to defend their majority. he is welcome in safe districts, but they aren't the ones that they need to hold. >> and those are a moving target too. >> so that's really -- right. >> the definition of safe. >> if you look at the political report data that republicans -- that's making them so nervous, it's that if you -- they did a comparison recently from august of 2006 to november. august of 2010 to november. there are more competitive seats this august, and those numbers always grow. and they have no -- it's 53 right now. they have no idea where it's going go november 6th. >> think of the day the president is having today. his campaign chairman on trial. >> deputy campaign director is
the star witness. >> the star witness. his first supporter in congress is arrested and indicted and arrested today. and there are the election results from last night which he puts a brave face on. i'm sure people have explained to him this really isn't that good, mr. president. so i think you can anticipate in the next few days he might be on a jag. i think a tweet storm is coming. >> don't forget there is somewhere there is an ostrich saying was it really worth it to kill my brother so this guy could have a jacket. a.b., you're such a nice person, you don't deserve this. but i'm going to read you this daily beast quote anyway. "multiple sources with direct knowledge of the situation tell the daily beast that omarosa manigault newman, the infamous "apprentice" star o'who followed trump to the white house, secretly recorded conversations with the president, conversations she has since leveraged while shopping her forthcoming tell-all book bluntly titled "unhinged."
a.b., nice person, level headed person, what does this say about our time? >> what this says about president trump is he asked for this. i do not watch "the apprentice." but i'm told by people who did that the omarosa character was the viper and you didn't mess with her, you mess with the bull you get the horns. she was not boil to anybody. she was happy to stir up trouble and she will turn on you. he let her into the west wing. she had a nebulous job. no one knew what she did. she recorded him. if this is true, the danger of trump and omarosa is they are not in the reputation preservation business. they're unembarrassable. >> are you sure you never watched? you're really good on this subject. >> i don't do reality tv. >> but think about -- think about it, though. he brought a reality television contestant into the white house as a senior adviser. in the west wing. >> think about this. he worked in this building and received a paycheck from this company for 14 years. eugene robinson and a.b. stoddard, our thanks. terrific conversation. i think she has been sneaking reality television.
coming up, as we have reported, the trump presidency has been very good for the book publishing business. there is a new one, already up to number two in new releases in just 24 hours on amazon, and it's unambiguous. its equally unambiguous author standing by to join us.
toward their own doom keeps growing. republican primaries have become contests for the darwin awards, a political version of hold my beer, watch this bubbaism." rick wilson is a proud floridian, a veteran strategist and admaker. donald trump has called him weak, totally conflicted and dumb as a rock. which our guest tonight wears as an enormous badge of honor. thank you for coming on. you have a dedicated following on social media. i'm happy to say i'm among them. >> thank you, sir. >> the book is a heck of a journey. how did the trump era happen? it takes two to tango in politics. there were some really good republican candidates. >> absolutely. >> how did this happen? when people ask you that question, what's your answer? >> this was a failure of leadership at the highest levels of the party, and that includes reince priebus and the money part of the party, all those 17 candidates who were considered
some of the best and brightest in the field and all of them misread the situation and all the professional class guys like me misread the situation, too. a lot of us thought this guy is a joke, he's a clown, he's going to self-destruct. but we didn't reckon with the fact people were voting for a candidate who they thought was the character he played on reality television. >> 14 years in this building. >> 14 years in this building in a huge hit show for this network and for trump. and the misreads and the missteps, it's a gigantic leadership failure. and they've compounded it by the fact that now he's in the oval office and now he's president and his behavior and his leadership and governance is such a train wreck they're trying normalize it and say this is the new way we do things. they've had to walk away from every principle republicans have ever had or ever stated they believed in and we've got a president who governs by rage tweets from the toilet at 6:00 in the morning. so the journey getting here as a guy who was a party loyalist and a guy who fought in the trenches for 30 years in the conservative
movement in the republican party, it wasn't an easy transition. but i sleep well every night. i'm comfortable with it. >> as opposed to some of those you've chosen in the book, you go through the individuals attracted to work for trump. and you give them outside of a benihana you don't see a fillet job like this individually. do us the honor. one of the passages that really got to me, we've excised a dirty word from the first sentence. this is your own writing. first two paragraphs on steve bannon. will you give us a dramatic reading? >> i will happily give you a dramatic reading. "the brightest, hottest, weirdest blank star in the trump constellation from the moment of the donald's unexpected electoral victory was steve bannon. if you're looking for the white hot center of esoteric trumpism, bannon is the intellectual architect, once you get past the homeless drifter with a hitchhiker's head in his backpack affect. bannon, a man who looks like a spokesmodel for a new line of gout medication-s known for his
oddball sar torial choices, the multiple shirts, the tactical operator pants, and the barber jacket are all hallmarks of his bus shelter chic style. persistently rumpled, persistently grizzled, and persistenly looking like he's been dragged over 30 miles of bad road, bannon was no one's idea of the white house's dull but professional suit and tie culture. his rheumy-eyed stare and odd constellation of facial moles, warts, scrofula, weeping sores, and grizzled beard patches make him look vaguely piratical." >> and that's the book's dedication -- no. i'm just kidding. that is just the portion on steve bannon. we'll take a break. rick wilson has agreed to stay with us over the break. because when we come back i'm going to ask him how this all ends.
opportunity to own fiscal discipline because we're spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave. and the debt is rising. the deficit is rising. we've made a huge bet with this tax bill which is helping 150 guys down on wall street. so all those things, unless you want to reset on them and do the hard work of it, the republican party is going to become the trump party and maybe a conservative party emerges from that and hives off from it but it's a very dark path ahead. we -- the statism and nationalist populism that defines trumpism is going to become under the republican brand something i think is unsellable to people who are younger than 55. >> what is your 30-second answer to how does it end? how does the trump era end? >> that whole scene in mad max where the guy is playing the guitar on the truck and the flamethrower. pretty much like that. no. i think trump will collapse of his own weight in the end. he's not happy. he's a man under enormous pressure. this is not a comfortable space for him.
he's stuck in this. he thought it was going to be a prank and joke and make a ton of money off of it. you can tell he is physically and mentally uncomfortable with the position he's in as president. and i don't think it lasts. >> rick wilson's new book, "everything trump touches dies," is presently ranked number 2 among new releases on amazon. and this is important. where it has leapfrogged the russia hoax by gregg jarrett and where it now trails only this, "stay sexy and don't get murdered," which i think is good advice for all of us. with our thanks to rick wilson for joining us. that is our broadcast on a wednesday night. thank you so very much for being with us. good night for all of us here at nbc news headquarters in new york.