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pay ellen weisselberg, and others, off the books through very sort of brazen and blatant ways. by creating, effectively, separate. books allen weisselberg sign checks on behalf of the trump organization that paid for his rent, his car, that pay for his children's tuition, and it was all documented within the trump organization because, it all went towards his overall salary, but it allowed him to avoid paying income taxes, and allow the trump organization to reduce its tax requirements. from a very technical perspective, it is clear that the manhattan da's office has overwhelming evidence, documentary ever in evidence -- they're clearly in possession of a number of tax records, and documents, including the spreadsheet. so, if we are going to focus
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iceberg when it comes to the multitude of illegalities that the district attorney is currently looking at. i think it is wrong of us to presume, for a moment, that this is it. this isn't the big surprise. hey everybody, look, we will get allen weisselberg. it's not allen weisselberg they are looking for. >> interesting point there, that prediction tonight from former trump organization employee, and former trump personal lawyer, michael cohen. as we mentioned, the trump organization and it cfo have pleaded not guilty today to tax charges. back with us is neil conte all department of justice, former acting solicitor during the obama administration who has argued cases before the supreme court. well let's talk about the chump matter with that prime diction
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cooperation and targeted him oppose the linchpin of the trump organization, as the individual who would know the most about the finances, and most likely to say whether trump or his children were involved in this scheme, or some of the other fraud allegations they have been investigating. this isn't new today to allen weisselberg. when he goes to sleep tonight he will say, okay, i call their bluff. they threatened they were gonna charge me if i didn't cooperate. they chose -- i chose not to cooperate, this is where i will be. let's see how this plays out. what's weisselberg is banking on, because new york state sensing -- for white collar cases are relatively lenient, he's not likely to face that much jail time. i think you will wait to see the evidence that the prosecutors have, which they have to turn over within 45
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then out there for a while. people factor in their equations and their views of the president. of course we will hear a lot more about it in the coming days. >> so daniel goldman, given your experience, take us behind the scenes. ellen weisselberg is alone with his thoughts. one happened starting tonight? one happened starting over the holiday weekend? if there were a mob movie made about this, i would be compelled to ask. is there anything barring dumb nor trump and weisselberg for being in touch either tele--- -less or anything barring a third party from transmitting a message to weisselberg? >> only in the laws against obstruction of justice. it would bar donald trump from trying to influence weisselberg one way or another. this was not a surprise to allen weisselberg. the da's office wanted haze
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case against weisselberg. everyone sees this is not an indictment that can reach the former president, they apparently don't have proof of his intent, or knowledge of the schemes. the question is, is there something here that would cause weisselberg to flip, and to cooperate down the road? the reality is, sentencing here is likely in low single digits, something that weisselberg would've been aware of going into it. as michael cohen says sometimes the feeling of the handcuffs can cost to the change. certainly, when people feel their family -- as was the case with michael cohen, just a mounting pressure of legal bills and paying back taxes can cause weisselberg to ultimately flip. we don't know how far this goes after weisselberg incorporation. >> peter baker, how show --
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narrowly on the charges in this indictment, the manhattan da's office has the goods, and it appears as though it's a very strong case. >> joyce vance, you know, attention spans being what they are in the stage for people want to cut to the chase, and get a preview, please preview what kinds of penalties weisselberg and the company that large, are looking at, if convicted? >> sure. so, the company obviously can't go to prison so we are talking about fines in that scenario. ultimately, perhaps, if the new york attorney general has appetite to do it, she can go after the company using some new york's sky laws organ -- that they operate with the significant power of fraud is west sanctions. everyone sees there is a strong
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michael cohen just made, what do you think it comes down to? >> i think michael cohen is absolutely right. the prosecutors here are looking for something bigger than just. this once we left and people don't talk about in the discord, these charges are against the trump organization where donald trump run as the president, brandon and his name. they are not minor charges. they allege about 1 million dollars in taxes not being. paid it's like 1 million dollar highs. the justice department does do a 15-minute google surged. you will see the justice department puts people in jail for five years for that. it's mine, or in something that's being used as leverage probably, to try and get allen weisselberg to flip. it should go without saying, today it, donald trump's business was labeled a criminal organization, essentially. >> want to pivot to the supreme
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