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dump-in 91, 93- 94 a radical transformation. across the country. new york more than most american cities. new york was in bigger trouble than most american cities. for people at home that haven t picked up on this, broken window theory is if i get somebody for breaking a window, chances are good i arrest him for that even you ll find a robbery attached and possibly a rape, et cetera, et cetera. you get the small crimes lead to bigger crimes. the idea is that somehow if you don t attend to those small disorders somehow it will send a signal to the community they can commit major crimes. now, you put an interesting twist to it which is the relationship between someone who might commit a minor disorder and we saw that back in 93, 94, 95, you stop someone for turnstile jumping you might find a gun on rare occasions. so there are those links.
debate over the so-called broken window theory. an idea that s cragging down on small crimes will prevents bigger ones happening. here with us now is professor from columbia law school, bernard harcourt. he s also the author of illusion of order the false promise of broken window theory. first give us your general theory why is this an illusion. why does the broken window theory not work. there s never been any reliable evidence that cracking down on small disorder reduces serious crime. homicides or robberies or the kind of stuff we care about, violent crime. just never been any reliable evidence for that. there s been a coincidence, a good coincidence, 93 when rudy giuliani that s what i was going to ask you about. everybody started talking about this because new york city was a
isn t the case, if this isn t the video, if this isn t the decision that doesn t wake everybody up. i think you re exactly right, joe. i m seeing a lot of conservatives, it s universal, people speaking out condemning what happened, condemning the grand jury decision. it s incredibly healthy. you also have some action items, police body cams. some standardized procedure about using pepper spray instead of chokeholds. hiring more black police officers. i think we can actually have some real action items and good to come out of this horrible situation. but it s more likely to happen if we are united and don t have people going their respective corners and reflectively white folks defending the police, black folks saying race was the only factor. matt lewis thanks. up next a lot of talk about the so-called broken window theory