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qu quote, deutsch banks takes its legal obligations seriously. here's an interview with the "new york times" a couple of months ago, answering questions as to whether his businesses and finances were fair gain. >> if mueller was looking at your finances and your family finances unrelated to russia, is that a red line? >> i would say yes. >> let's get to all of this with our reporters and guests, white house bureau chief phil rucker, with me on set, national security reporter ken delaney. and chuck rosenberg, a former u.s. attorney who worked on the staff of robert mueller and james comb koecomey of the fbi. let me start with those financial headlines. there's a dispute about the facts, but would you surmise that donald trump's taxes are something that bob mueller either has or will seek to
which the president and james comey have very different accounts of what happened there. and finally to the deutsch bank discussion that you're having. jay sekulow is another one of the president's outside counsel, who says, look, deutsch bank has not turned over any records. and yet, nicole, it is possible, and i'll leave it to your legal team to dig into this more deeply. but the president's legal team wouldn't be advised by that. so a lot of unanswered questions and of course shadowing over all of that the fact that you do have this dispute with the president's legal team, over whether the president can commit obstructio obstruction, and say they that he can't. >> i heard from three senior republicans closely aligned with this white house, firmly behind the president and his agenda. who all have been in contact with people who are of interest
to bob mueller, not necessarily subjects of the investigation, but witnesses in the investigation. who say that it is abundantly clear to them that bob mueller is building an obstruction of jugs case. >> yeah, i think that's right and i think that's why securing the cooperation from former national security advisor michael flynn was so critical to mueller and his investigative team. they hope that flynn will be able to tell a lot of stories about what the president knew, when he knew it, what he might have said in private meetings and so forth. but the dispute and tension within the president's legal team is really important right now, just in the last few days, i have been reporting on this and hearing a great deal of tension from people close to the president inside the white house and outside the white house who feel like he's not being well served by dowd in particular with his evolving stories publicly over the last few days and a real befuddlement if you will, with a comment that dowd
made yesterday that he doesn't believe, it's his assessment that the president cannot obstruct justice on his reading of the constitution, which many legal sclholars and experts disagree with. >> i want to ask you about something i picked up from these senior republicans. they suggested that once someone like mike flynn has flipped and has joined team america as the source put it, it is unknowable what bob mueller knows. so he may only know what mike flynn knows, but he may also know more than the white house sort of can imagine. that this becomes sort of an investigation that is impossible to imagine if you're being investigated. and that's always the advantage that a prosecutor has over his sort of the subjects and the witnesses. because the white house doesn't have any way of knowing who's already helped fill in different pieces and one of the chief concerns is that on just the simple things that someone could be wearing a wire.
i mean no one had heard of george popadopoulos but now he's a household name, but there could be other people that mike flynn interacted with a whole bur bunch of people on the campaign, and it is a known unknown that the white house can not function as though it's business as usual. >> i think that's exactly right, nicole, there's a lot that mueller's doing that we don't know either. wh trying to keep tabs on the investigation, trying to read the tea leaves, find out who's been interviewed by mueller and piecing to some guesses some assumptions so that the president can stay ahead of this and know what's going on. but a lot of things are not knowable at this point, and mueller has been very stealth about his investigate and he hasn't spoken about it nor have
the people working for him. a lot of trump lawyers are concerned about it. they see a team of 16 to 17 killers who are out to get the president somehow send it's unclear what he might know. >> i worked with bob mueller when he was in the white house and i know a lot about what president bush thought about him in his job. he was the consummate professional. he had no patience, no tolera e tolerance, no appetite, no interest in the media circus. it was not a game he played. one of the people i talked to last night suggested that that put the trump team at a significant disadvantage because of the president's obsession with the immediamedia coverage and this investigation and of bob mueller. his team has spent two news cycles swallowed up by a debate about what john dershowitz said. could you talk about the strategic advantage that a man
like bob mueller has over someone who is obsessed with small, petty, vain things? >> it's what you said, nicole, he is absolutely focused on two things, and one of them is not the media or the debate about what's happening. two things. the facts and the law. he's gathering facts, he's applying the fact to the law. and so that's what drives the investigation. i have to differ a little bit with something someone said. bob mueller is not out to get anyone. bob mueller isn't out to make an obstruction case. bob mueller is out to gather facts and apply them to the law. if that turns out to get someone or it results in an obstruction case, so be it. it but that's the way good prosecutors think and he's a good prosecutor. >> can you speak to the discrepancy, what i picked up is that the kinds of questions he's asking suggests that he's as interested in everything that went down at the white house from the moment sally yates walked in and warned them about
mike flynn until the moment he left, including the firing of jim comey. so could that sort of -- could we all be right here? >> yes, the 18-day period that mike flynn remained in office after the white house was warned that there was a problem, that's figuring very large in robert mueller's investigation. the theory out there, it's just a theory. but bob bare, the former prosecutor said that -- >> if we are to accept the white house twitter feet, we have been told that the white house the quitter feed represents official presidential statements so that is at the moment our operational understanding of what's happening now. >> wouldn't it make sense that the day after flynn left the white house, that trump pulls comey aside and says, couldn't you let that go? james comey declined that
request and then was fired. >> i saw you nodding at some of that, can you speak to sort of the ptsd that both the flynn revelation from sally yates has brought from this white house senior staff and the comey firing has brought about for this white house staff? i get a lot of, you know, oh, gods and, y0uou know, pray for from the people i know on the inside. >> reporter: the inside and those who are close to the president in his inner circle, nicole. i think that a number of people felt blind sided on friday when mike flynn entered that plea agreement with the fbi. some of these legal counsel did think it was coming eventually, but they didn't know it was coming on friday. so there was a lot of scrambling behind the scenes to respond to it. and then i think there's a concern, on two fronts, one that this is getting closer to the oval office, getting closer to the president himself, concern about what mike flynn is going
to say, of course the white house and white house attorneys have said, look, mike flynn doesn't have any damaging information about the president, so we're not concerned. that's the official line. but privately, officials will acknowledge that they're concerned about mike flynn, will he for example build up some of the story that he has to tell for investigators? that's an unknowable fact at this point in time. and then the second part to this and the second part to the consternation which you can think of is the concern about the legal deal and the fact that they haven't been on the same page, there's some concern that he's not tough enough. then there's been some push back from ty cobb on some of that criticism. he said it's time to release documents and he said it will be tied up in a timely fashion. you heard sarah sanders reiterate that.
>> let me give you the last word and ask you to string together three things and tell me if your expertise is incompetence or something more sinister. paul manafort, after he's been indicted pens an op-ed with someone who has ties to, you can guess, russian intelligence and the trump legal team is in their 47th hour fighting about whether a president can or cannot on instruct justice. would you paint all of these acts as potentially criminal and sinister, or is it just an epic chapter of the incompetence of the american presidency? >> i don't know that i can answer that, nicole. i'm not a lawyer. i don't know if it's criminal or not. >> it takes a lawyer to decide? their best defense is that they're incompetent. >> i don't know, there are
always these sort of missing pieces of information or things that officials are forgetting when it comes to russia and it's been this cloud that's been hanging over the presidency of donald trump since before he even took office and it's going to be there for a while and we're going to have to see what happens and whether any of these other figures are going to get charged. >> kristen welker, phil rucker, ken delaney and ken rosenberg. when we come back, we'll be talking about whether it's a good strategy to say that a president can't obstruct justice, instead of maintaining that your client, the president didn't obstruct justice. also ahead, roy moore rising, fresh off the endor endorsement from the president, the accuse ed molester tap into the rnc bank account to fund his campaign. a young woman steaming the
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technical defenses such as the one arctticulated by dershowitz and others. let's bring in democratic congressman harold ford, and john, how are we already getting into trouble. and brett stevens, "new york times" op-ed columnist and msnbc contributor, and former aid of the george w. bush white house. >> ty cobb knows that donald trump's legal team is going to be -- he's made himself a witness, he can't represent -- cobb will need to leave trump's legal team because he's made himself a potential part to -- dowd will have to leave trump's legal team because he has now made himself a party to this crime. the question of whether or not he wrote that tweet for trump is now a material fact in the
obstruction of justice case, so he will now be brought before mueller as a witness and so you can't represent a client in a case to which you are a party. that's an inevitable chain of events and i think ty cobb is saying i need to create some distance. >> this is because of the nature of what was tweeted from the president's feed suggests that donald trump knew this mike flynn had lied to the fbi. a source close to don mcgahn confirms what salliate y atyate testified to that mike flyshe d that mike flynn had lied to the fbi, what she said was that he could be vulnerable to a blackmail attempt from the russians. they're in a vulnerable position, how do they undo this scramble that they're in, john? >> i don't know that it's
undoable. they're certainly in a bad position -- >> of their own making? >> of their own making. the question of whether don mcgahn knew or not, as you suggest, mcgahn is sticking to his story that he did not know. but the question is there's been a lot of days since the days that sally yates came forward to today. and the question that how sar sarah -- so when did donald trump know? at what point was it made clear to the president? was it that day that sally yates spoke to don mcgahn? or was it someday between then and now in the many months since? we don't know the answer to that question and we don't know what happened on the day that that tweet was sent. but i think most people reading that tweet is that no lawyer dictated or wrote a tweet that included the word pled. >> right, because he said pleaded. let me ask you, this is also surreal. it feels like only donald trump would have a legal team that implicates him as someone who
gives us more proof points to the potential case that he obstructed justice in his effort to defend his own client. there's something in axios that i thought was pretty apt. the donald trump survival plan, the trump fog machine blows daily, the idea is to taint the critics. trump is playing not for a court per se, but the court of public opinion. do you think they really see an impeachment proceedings a foregone conclusion? >> i don't know. what i do know is everything that's been said here and all that has transpired you could also interpret mr. dowd's comments in some ways as an admission that the president did engage in an act that could be legally construed and proven to be obstruction of justice, but i'll let his lawyers sort it out. >> harold is a lawyer, let's be clear. >> one of the things you have to
wonder, john, you are articulate, you have to wonder, does this stop the tweets? if it doesn't, does he now offer some plausible events where he's saying that someone else dictated these tweets. i listen to kellyanne conway whose husband is one of the great litigators in this country. she says she has seen other people help the president write tweets. >> but she doesn't have a record of telling the truth on television. >> it's different, don't get me wrong, i don't go on television and not tell the truth. but it's different when you're on television and whether you're talking to bob mueller. >> john dowd became a witness, is kellyanne conway -- i mean does bob mueller not want to know who writes the president's tweet sngs. >> from press reports, he's asked that question, he's asked about tweets and if the president now has some sort of
defense that hess n is not the author of the originator of all these tweets, i have no idea which tweets he's looking at. but even politically, the president may say that others are writing his tweets. every day we get these big, big helpings of things that are happening, and it's hard to remember them all. and at some point, you have to wonder if roy moore is elected, do republicans at some point and step back and wonder, i'm voting with the person who has a mountain of allegations against him around pedophilia or rape and other matters, is this what i want to be a part of. it's no longer just want to be a part of trump. you now have another element of this, and i don't know if he's going to win or not, but if he does, that has to be a tipping point for the flakes and corkers, that they can't work with him. i watched jeff flake sit next to the president today, when is enough enough? >> there is no tipping point,
that's what we have learned about the republican party, when people tip, they leave, whether it's bob corker or jeff flake or other republicans who have become disgusted, the lesson they have drawn is that the trump machine is fundamentally unstoppable and that lesson will be more strongly held in the event that roy moore wins the special election in alabama. so the tipping point comes when democrats take control of both houses of congress, and there are impeachment proceedings under their leadership and a conviction under their leadership. because i don't see any republican congress, even with the most visible evidence of obstruction or other mall or misfeasance by the president or the administration voting for impeachment, voting against the president, republican party simply isn't capable of doing it. once you have endorsed an allegedor an accused pedestriop to join you in your ranks as a
senator, nothing else is going to compare to that. >> just think how terrible this past month has been for roy moore and he hasn't even opened his mouth. he hasn't been speaking to the press, he has been involved in a debate. when he -- every republican is going to asked to be constantly answer for roy moore and they're going to be constantly asked if senate pages are safe in the senate with roy moore serving. >> not just pages, but their daughters. when we come back, a democratic congressman retires today in the wake of sexual harassment scandals, but alabama candidate roy moore, as we have been discu discussing, an accused molester has had the rnc for funds for his campaign.
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i think he's going to do real well. we don't want to have a liberal democrat in alabama. we want strong borders, we stand stopping crime, we want to have the things we represent and we certainly don't want to have a liberal democrat that's controlled by nancy pelosi and controlled by chuck schumer, question donwe don't want to have that for alabama. >> going, going, gone. that was the republican party's soul, what's left of it after the president gave roy moore his full endorsement and the rnc candidacy. hitting on them in courthouses and stalking them in malls. moore isn't the only politician accused of sexual misconduct. watch this.
>> he basically laid out some blankets on the floor of his living room and proceeded to, um, seduce me, i guess you would say. and during the course of that, he removed by clothing. >> it was sexual harassment, violating -- violating my body, propositioning me, inviting me to hotels with the guise of discussing business, and then propositioning me to, you know, for sex. >> he just put his hand on the back of my head and, he mashed his face against -- it mean it happened so fast. >> he was all over the place, if he had stuck with the upper part of the body, i might not have gotten -- i might not have gotten that upset. but it was when he started putting his hand up my skirt and that was it. >> those were the women who have accused judge roy moore,
democratic congressman john ck n conyers and president trump, all of them accused of sexual harassment and worst. most of them have resigned or apologized. >> i would argue that the democrats' slow response helped put roy moore in a stronger position. >> you know what, i would normally agree with you, but al franken as -- they're not fighting the same way, conniers is gone. he went to the hospital and now today has retired. roy moore is about to start his senate career and donald trump is politically untapt inted. >> but they did have the opportunity to have the more high ground, and nancy pelosi had chosen to -- that just re-enforcess what alabama voter see as media hypocrisy, and roy
moore has benefitted in the polls since nancy pelosi made that appearance. >> roy moore is in a totally different category, as bad as conyers is, it's a different category. for a number of reasons. number one, taking someone like al franken. al franken has apologized. number two, what al franken did pales, compared to what's alleged of roy moore. so to have the entire republican party accomplishment get behind something like this, something that is criminal. i was saying this earlier today. any of us who are parents of teenagers know exactly what we would do to a 30-something-year-old man who tried to proposition any of our children, i don't have to spell it out. so we're -- i meaning it's just not -- these aren't equivalent situations, even with the case of bill clinton and his abuses in the oval office, they're not -- that's not the same sport.
>> let me put up your tweet. >> i understand what she's saying, she's saying that he's got voters that view us as hypocrites in the press and the media and up here. >> i was saying democrats did have a time to have more high ground on this issue and they completely -- enter they still do. but i do think that voters in alabama saying you're not treating us all the same and roy moore, this is disgusting, i know what you're talking about, i have a 3-year-old daughter and i can only imagine if she was 13 or 14 and something like this happened how i might react. the reality is you have a republican party now, including the head of the party, who has endorsed the guy because they want a tax bill passed. if there was a surplus of votes with mcconnell and the president be supportive of roy moore? but because they need that one vote, they're willing to -- >> i happen to like most of the tax bill.
i happen to be generally in favor of tax cuts, i think it would be stimulative for the economy. but to ask me do you want a party who's going to hold the line against certain kinds of behavior, even when -- i'll take the high taxes. ultimately the party is destroying itself. when you said there goes the soul of the republican party, gone. >> the stories are all horrible, for most women who are victims of sexual assault, their lives are never the same from that moment on, so when a woman goes on to tv and describes it they retraumatized, john conyers, roy moore and al franken have all had women who have told their stories. al franken may or may not survive. nancy pelosi may or may not have
stepped into it. the parties are not treating sexual abusers the same way. roy moore is about to win and donald trump is flying high. >> the president of the united states, accused all of the women who accused him of being liars, said he was going to sue all of them. and in the case i believe of the woman that we showed on that tape is the woman that trump mocked a couple days later as being not good looking enough, like no one could believe i could harass her, i mean come on, you can't be serious, i would never attack her. he was the one that denied it, he called them all liars, said he was going to sue them and then made fun of some of them to not being up to his standards of beauty, that would fall into the category of someone he might harass. i agree, john conyers should have resigned, al franken should resign. the things they have admitted to do are different that were roy moore, and their response to it
is just in a different league from what donald trump's response has been, is to go on and retraumatize them in the most horrific way possible. >> mitch mcconnell did say there would be an ethics probe, i think we have that. >> there's been no change of heart. i had hoped earlier he would withdraw as a candidate, that obviously is not going to happen. if he were to be elected, he would immediately have an ethics committee case and the committee would take a look at the situation and give us advice. >> it so let's play this forward, i appreciate that mitch mcconnell said from the outset, i believe the women. i was disappointed to see him cave and yesterday his line on this was that the people of alabama should decide. this was his response today. if he proceeds with an ethics investigation, do you have any idea whether the ethics committee would vote to expel
roy moore? >> no. after a half minute of consideration. why? because the party is now the party of steve bannon and they all live -- any republican who's not stepping down or doesn't plan to run for re-election, all lives in fear of being primary ed, all lives in fear of that particular shadow. so do i see a kind of bob packwood treatment to expel him. i see that as unlikely. again it would have to wait for a democratically controlled senate. >> this is illume nattive of a broader thing. jeff flake when he gave his retirement speech said i will not be complicit or silent and i don't want to be too hard on jeff flake. >> say what you said in a text or i'll read it. >> what is jeff flake doing at the white house? is he just clueless? does he not know that there's a
chance he's going to be used as a political prop? the cameras are there the, dude, if you want to say you're not with roy moore, all those reporters would take statement from jeff flake at that moment or walk away, or not go in the first place, but jeff flake has been relatively courageous, compared to a lot of republicans on capitol hill related to donald trump. yet in this moment, donald trump ropes him in, brings him to the white house and he sits there like a bump on a log while the president talks about why roy moore belongs in the senate. >> you said this picture is everything you need to know about the debasement of the gop. i hate to pay you two complements in one hour. but it was perfectly said. when we come back, what would you do if your boss with who has a violent temper asks you to
steam his pants while he was wearing them. hope hicks placed a chair in front of the president and did just that. ♪when sundown pales the sky i want to hide a while behind your smile ah, but i may as well try and catch the wind♪ our mission is to make off-shore wind one of the principle new sources of energy. not every bank is willing to get involved
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. especially a version of the republican party that was about free trade, enterprise, openness, democracy, human rights and so on. all of that pales compared to the moral health of the party. can i say to my children, you ought to be republicans because of x? how can i belong to a party that includes a pedophile. that's going to haunt the rent party for decades. >> david bossy paints a bigger picture of david management style. one of the duties assigned to hope hicks, the campaign
spokeswoman. get the machine, he'd yell and hope would take out the steamer and start steaming mr. trump's suit while he was wearing it. yeah. one time hope forgot to bring the steamer on the jet. i don't think we have time sir, she said, when he yelled for the machine. we'll just get you pressed at the machine, but when hope finally admitted she forgot the steamer. it was a mistake she would never make. but this idea in this picture of a man who screams at his staff is one that i have heard is ongoing.
she doesn't have very much experience, but at least she's good looking. and that's in the book too. it's a weird book, and there's a lot of it that's meant to make trump look noble and valiant and making great sacrifices and paint a hero's portrait. if you strip out all of that, and there's moments that are meant to look great and leaderly, if you strip out the -- this particular portrait, forget about the steaming of the pants while on, i don't know how you do that. i would like to see it. >> it sounds painful. >> it reminds me of the mitt romney moment of that movie where she's ironing the suit jacket while it's on him and he's burning himself. just the whole tone of it. where's the machine, you know, the profancitprofanity, the ins
the abuse, they're painting a portrait of trump, man, i would never want to work for this guy. >> everybody knows he could be dreadful towards his secretaries and kind of vain, authoritarian >> at least he was churchill. >> western europe from nazi tyranny. >> i have to show everybody a few more nuggets from the book. it's about his diet and lowering the plane to an altitude where he could get a cell signal. we'll have to sneak in break, we'll be right back. them all to♪ ♪ and how, i can't explain ♪ ♪ oh yeah, well well well youuuu ♪ ♪ you make my dreams come true ♪ ♪ well, well, well youuuu ♪ topped steak & twisted potatoes at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.
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there's more from this book by people who claim they know the president and his diet. there were also ancillary groups including vienna fingers and the oreo. the reason the package of oreos was unopened waus because trump wouldn't eat from a previously opened package. he also had the pilot to lower the phone to get a signal. did you say i shouldn't be on tv on sunday and paul was like he couldn't hear him because of the helicopter motor. i said i'll going on tv anytime time i bleep want. tone it down? i want to tone it up. i don't want to play anything down. i've had enough. this certainly rings true.
>> throughout those excerpts he is very harsh on the way that paul maf paul manafort was treated by trump. i think that's cory lieuewando i lewandowski's portrait. hey, let's not do the sunday show and donald trump lashing out at that. one thing that he does point out consistently is donald trump complimenting people's hair and skin and saying they're good looking. cory lieuewandowski said he did to him. i do not get how that plays into a campaign operative. >> i disagree. i have to say monafoone thing ts to be acknowledged. trump had a political animal
genius for what the electrorate wanted. the idea he had to turn it up when those of us around the table were saying that's outrageous, you can't say that, mr. trump. he always took it like in that movie 211. that's effective. >> can i just say, you know, i have a lot of quarrels with this president. the mcdonald's i don't. i don't have a problem with pop eye's. >> there's a lot to quarrel with him, i'm not going to quarrel him -- >> are you a germophobe. >> when i'm on with you, absolutely. >> i love fast food, there's nothing wrong with fast food. >> we have to sneak in one more break. >> my wife is going to kill me. back to taxpayers. who could possibly be against that? well, the national debt is $20 trillion. as we keep adding to it, guess who pays the bill? him.
and her. and her. congress, we should grow the economy. not the debt. ♪
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