barking dog and that appears to be what alerted the hostage's captors to what was going on. during the firefight that then followed, u.s. forpdss saw a militant go into the shack where the hostages were being held. it is believed that is when he shot both of the hostages, both of them died as a result of those injuries, as u.s. forces were transporting them away. u.s. intelligence did not know the identity of the other hostage being held with somers. he has since been identified as south african teacher pierre korkie. a char that worked with korkie says he was due to be released today. to discuss this and many of the other top stories for the week, joined by our panel, bring in democratic strategist basil smythe, jr., political consultant and former adviser to mitt romney, cater packer gauge and msnbc correspondent, casey packer hunt. obviously on this hostage story, we are learning the details, obviousiously a heartbreaking story, another report i know in the new york times this morning that apparently the south
african who was being held about this american, this charitable group he worked with saying it had reached a dell for his freedom and obviously, that was destroyed by all this, too. another piece in it as well. just goes to show you i think that there was a failed mission a couple of weeks ago. all of these captors that isis has right now, the attempts to get them out, just -- how difficult it is to get any of these people back. >> and the obama administration has announced that they are going to review u.s. hostage policy, in part, because they have faced some criticism from the families of the people who have been held hostage and ultimately killed by isis and other groups much the one thing that the americans say they are not gonna change is whether or not they will pay ransom for a hostage and it sounds like from that preliminary reporting from the "new york times" that the south african group had actually paid a ransom or had been willing to and that he was set to be release and that you know, we didn't know that, the americans didn't know that when they went in. >> and all these isis stories, so many europeans held, yet
these european governments, a lot of them don't admit it publicly, but privately, they pay the ransons and they get their people out. here of in the united states -- talked about the policy before, from the standpoint, wouldn't want to pay ran as soon as, the issues of the families, hey if the government doesn't want to pay it fine, can't i raise the money, can't i get my kid out, get my sop, my dur out? >> right. and there are legal issues there as well, but it's hard to tell a family that you cannot do that. it should be noted that as failed missions are not unusual, unfortunately, it goes took at least 1980 a mission in iran to free the hostages. are they changing tactics, not killed hostages before in this way. are they changing their tactic that may suggest we need to as well? >> if it's a response to isis. >> i think it does speak to a
as the san francisco chronicle reports, minutes before the police disbursed the crowd, several concerts let out downtown, several concert gears waiting to neigh a nearby parking garage were sent running for cover. president obama this morning talking with b.e.t. net workers about this recent unrest in america. >> as painful as these incidents are, we can't equate what is happening now to what was happening 50 years ago and if you talk to parents, grandpar t grandparents, uncles, they will tell you that, you know, things are better, not good in some cases but better. typically, progress is in steps, it's in increments, you know, you're dealing with something as deeply rooted as racism or bias in any society, you got to have vigilance but recognize that it's going to take some time and you just have to be steady. >> that full interview, by the
way, will air tomorrow night, 6 p.m. on b.e.t. basil, considering the president's role in all of this, the ferguson, decision no to go forward with the case was announced by the grand jury out there now, about two weeks ago, the president was on television within ten minutes. how have you assessed his leadership through this? >> i do think his leadership has been fine, he has been measured and i know there are some on the left that don't like that and conservatives don't like that's -- what they would say meddling in local matters. i think he has absolutely struck the right tone. what should be note it had is an be a sect failure of branches of government, particularly the judicial system and i think what -- what needs to happen going forward is that the president should, i know there is a federal investigation, should address the -- the actual issue here which are failures in criminal justice. this is going to impact also his nominee, loretta lynch, to the attorney general post. i know that she is gonna get significant questions on how she
would go forward on some of these issues, but i think his tone was appropriate. i think he handled it fine. but we are waiting to see what's gonna happen with the federal investigation. >> loretta lynch angle on this is really interesting, casey, because she is as the u.s. attorney for this district involved in this case now, obviously, if she becomes the attorney general, potentially involved in anything that doj is doing. so, that just means this -- the decision is made here on whether federal charges had brought against garner is going to intersect with the confirmation politics in the senate. do we have a sense of how that is going to play out? >> absolutely, steph. i think the one thing that distinguishes ferguson, for example, from the garner case is you saw a remarkable amount of unity coming out of capitol hill saying there maybe a miscarriage of justice in this situation. i think the facts in the ferguson case have been much more sort of muddled and argued over. there are people who feel, you know, strongly that the police officer maybe acted in good faith. i think in this particular case, because of the video and because of the evidence that we had,
everyone on capitol hill that i spoke to was pretty shocked that this came down the way it did and i think that while it can -- it has the potential to throw a wrench into her confirmation process, i think unless something particularly inflammatory happens with the investigation, there's nobody out there yet who is saying that pushing harder on this is gonna cause a problem for her. >> interesting, too loretta lynch, she -- political jobs in a way, she knows how to play politics and she has made alliances with people you might not expect, like rudy giuliani, for instance, very supportive. >> she came into it in a very strong position as well. when she was first announced, there was very little opposition to her, which is gonna help her in the long run. >> one of the reasons she was picked. let me ask you this, obviously, we have seen some of the initial polling after ferguson and what struck me about the polling after ferguson, we talked about this in the show a little bit yesterday, it really kind of hues to this basic partisan divide we see on almost any question and sort of the predictable groups go republican have one view of it the predictable groups that go
democratic have one view.t i hear a lot of republicans saying this bothers me, too. >> haven't talked to anybody who has seen that video that suspect sort of shocked by what took place and feel like -- feels like there was just an overwhelming amount of violence in that situation that gives people pause. but not everything is a partisan issue. what there hasn't been a lot of talk about is the media's role in all of. this the fact of the matter is the protesters shall the people talking on either side of it, they don't have all of the information that these grand juries have offered to them. s's a little bit unfair to be second-guessing after the fact, not willing to sit down and look at the evidence -- >> the ferguson, we pretty much did get the evidence. >> we have it available. i'm saying i don't think that too many people are actually sitting down and looking at all the evidence. there's a lot of sort of
inflammatory reporting, in my opinion, that sort of gins this up and doesn't take the time to look at all the facts that are presented. and i do think that because of the video in the garper situation, it does seem much more clear but again, you still don't have all of the evidence that people are reviewing and poring over. >> but i do think what is fair and what the media has done very well is put voices on camera that are speaking to the inequities in the system and disparate treatment we are seeing in ferguson and in the eric garner case that tie those things together. look, cliven bundy is out in the west holding off federal marshals with advanced weaponry. he and his friends are standing on bridges with assault rifles pointing at u.s. maher shals but a man selling loose cigarettes gets choked to death and ten people are standing around him and are absolutely doing nothing. so, i don't think the media has
inflamed anything. i think it is -- it is incumbent upon all of us really in situations like this to bring a lot of those voices to the table and say, yes, this is -- this treatment is disproportionate it is disparate and it's wrong. but the reality is that the criminal justice system, particularly in grand juries, you mentioned that, is where we need to have some real reform. they do not get vetted like trial jurors do and i think that needs change. >> all right. mo tore get to including some interesting comments from valerie jarrett about members of the obama administration. also, the latest on that "rolling stone" story about university of virginia and rape allegations. that's next. [ female announcer ] a 3d white smile
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"rolling stone's" website right now, this morning, click on its apology for that uva rape article it is walking back from, would you find a very different letter posted there than the one the magazine first posted on friday. the magazine made major changes to that original note. the original three-paragraph one stated that "rolling stone" had "misplaced its trust in jackie, the uva student whose claims of being raped are the center piece of the article." the new updated apology letter, the magazine accepts more blame for what happened, saying, "these mistakes are on "rolling stone", not on jackie." "rolling stone" editor will dana's mig match chur is missing from the updated apology. so much to this story, "rolling stone" story, part is how they initially framed it, phrased it, like it was our mistake to trust her. we -- you know, it's your job as a magazine to fact check everybody. if you're not gonna reach out to the supposed perpetrators of
this, that is definitely on you and not her. i'm trying to figure out still what exactly went wrong here. is this a magazine that was just -- they were looking for page views, for clicks, hey, we have got something sensational here is it that? a magazine that sort of had an activist edge to this and they wanted to prove something they already -- they believed had happened without bothering -- i'm still trying to figure out exactly how something like this happens, in terms of failure on a journalism level, i can't remember something this bad recently? >> steve, i think for this subject in particular, it's a shame that this has happened in part because it is so hard for so many of these victims to come forward. you have someone, and clearly the woman at the center of this story had something terrible and traumatic happen to her. now the magazine is struggling to figure out which details line up right and which ones don't. that is up to them. every time something like this happens it sets back the overall goal of making sure victims are believed, not written off, stories are true, so much that
goes into -- feel like they can't come forward because they are not going to be believed and i think that, you know this is a major journalistic sin but as will for our community as a whole as people are trying to combat sexual assault. >> this was a story that -- i have three nieces that are on colleges campuses today and it was a story when i saw it that i immediately share ready with family members, because it sort of terrifies you. to kasie's point, i think it does setback the ability to get people to come forward. you know, there's a lot of things that are worrisome. i think that when a journalist makes a deal that they are not going to talk to the accused, i think that's a dangerous place to be. i think it's also a dangerous police to be when colleges decide that they are gonna try to handle these things internally and not turn something that's felony immediately over to law enforcement. so all of those things, you know, sort of give you pause about this. >> part of it, basil, you read how this came together, there was a point apparently in the reporting where jackie didn't
want to be part of this in i more, you know what i don't want to go down this road. "rolling stone" basically strong armed her, no, we are doing this and hey this is running either way, you want to talk to us or not, we are running this either way, that's lot on "rolling stone." >> and i think it specs to your point you hope it doesn't have a chilling effect. if a victim wants to report the story, wants to report what's happened to them, wants to go forward and talk to the police, whether the campus police are handling it or the local pd will be handling it, you don't want a situation where she's being forced to sort of come out and then not have control of the story of the details of the incident after that. and it looks like, you know, and i hope this doesn't happen, i hope that aring -- the "rolling stone" apology doesn't sort of cut off the conversation about what happened to her but you certainly don't want a chilling effect going forward. >> the university of virginia actually in their statement, i think to their credit, said, okay, well, these questions. coming out about this story but, you know what, this is still a
conversation we need to have. we still need to be focused on making sure that we limit or end sexual assaults on campus. >> for a publication like "rolling stone", too, what do they do now, a brand name in american journals and "rolling stone" around forever. >> each institution has to grapple with this. changing this apology in some ways is a red flag, how you handle this is really -- if something like this happens, how the's handled and the aftermath says a lot about the institution, what they are committed to. so i'm not sure that changing your apology and not mentioning the fact that you changed your apology was -- >> yeah, the instincts, too the first apology they ran, it was just so much like trying to push
this off, oh, we got fooled, we got hoodwinked here, something like that. that didn't look good either. >> there's a lot of these cases that occur and clearly, they gravitated toward a particularly inflammatory case because it would sell and it would cause page views and i think that's on the editorial team, you have got something so incendiary that you are, you know, crossing all the its and dotting all theisms, clearly, they didn't do that >> that was the thing that struck me reading it all the important sort of institutional questions about uv a, its response, the response of colleges to all of this, they are in this arm and there are important things to be raised. almost as if they said, you know what that's not gonna get the page views what is gonna get the page views is the anecdote, we need the anecdote at the top of it, when they get into trouble and raising all the questions. say thanks to, bass the spikele, jr., katie packer gains. kasie will be with us later. and anger over one of
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in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra. it's part of the ritual of washington that when the president nominates someone for a key post in his administration, the sniping about that nominee begins on capitol hill immediately. so, in november, immediately after president obama nominated a man named antonio weiss for the position of undersecretary of the treasury, the blowback started, but here's the twist. the blowback was and is being led by a democrat, by a member of the president's own party. and not just any democrat either, it was massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, who is now representing progressives as part of the democratic leadership in the senate as well as the person who created a wall street watchdog agency at the president's behest. so, that's why warren is upset about the nomination, she believes that the nominee, antonio weiss, is too cozy with wall street. she also accuses him of engineering in his role as the
head of the american banking firm lazzard that a deal, in affect, made burger king a canadian company, there by shielding it from millions of u.s. tax obligations. warren's attacks on weiss are now drawing fire as well, most notably, from andrew ross sorkin of cnc and "the new york times." he is defending weiss and he calls warren's opposition misdirected, saying her understanding of the burger king deal is misinformed. elizabeth warren has pogued herself as the democratic party's leading crusader against wall street. now she is making this a test for her party. will they stand with her and stop the weiss nomination or should they even do that? here to discuss is msnbc contributor jared bernstein, who is also a senior fellow at the center of budget and policy pries and was vice president -- president obama's chief economic adviser and lenore pal dean know, economist and vice president of policy and outreach at the liberal think tank, demost. thank you for joining us. lenore, let me start with you.
the case against weiss this is a member of the president's party, campaigned for obama's re-election, done work on the issue of raising taxes on the wealthy to combat inequality, why is that a bad choice for this position? >> so i think we have to step become and look what the this position actually is. it is somebody at treasury who deals with domestic finance and the implementation of dodd frank, i think two qualifications we need. one is someone who has deep experience with domestic regulation and the other is somebody who is independent from wall street, somebody who is going to be willing to disagree with them and i think that -- >> does he have regulatory experience? >> not that i'm aware of. he is a corporate m & a guy. his experience is really in international corporate business mergers and also this $21 million payout he is getting from lazzard to go into public service that really calls into question independence from wall street. >> okay, jared, that is the case against. what do you make of that? >> i think both lenore and senator warren make a lot of good points. i think, from my own experience,
it really matters a lot who's in the room when you're making economic policy at this level. however, i think they are different rooms, for this. radio, for the undersecretary of domestic finance, i think it's helpful to have someone with the kind of market experience that antonio weiss brings to the table. lenore didn't mention one of the most important parts of the job, that's managing the stock of our national debt, $17 trillion in debt that this undersecretary has to be sure to finance in a way that's highly efficient. if you look at this guy's career, he has spent decades in international markets dealing with global finance. in fact, it's hard for me to realize, and i -- i would argue that senator warren has failed to really name a person who would be appropriate in this position who doesn't have this kind of market background and experience. >> jared, is it a concern to you, no experience unless -- no experience in terms of
regulation, no regulatory experience? >> well, in fact, if you're sitting across the table doing mergers and acquisition and the kinds of advice that lazzard provides to firms, you know a lot about where those skeletons are buried. what really matters in this position, somebody with regulatory ex-peer enwhy, hard pressed to find many in this kind of position who had that kind of experience and that they have the kind of sensibility that senator warren is looking for. and here, i know antonio weiss a little bit and he actually is very much in favor of the kind of rigorous oversight that senator warren and frankly myself think is important. we shouldn't judge him just on the basis of this wall street kind of label that's been attached. >> lenore is there an argument to be made, i wonder what you make of the argument that because he is so close to wall street, because that's his background, because he knows so closely, so intimately how it works it would put him in position to sort of know the trick, to know, hey if this is the regulation this is the
workaround they are going to tray to come up. you want somebody like that, sort of like at the casinos, they hire the guy that knew how to beat the game, beat the house, hire him for security. is there an an analogy there? >> i think it is about the mix of regulators enough treasury and we know how much that ineffective financial regulation led to the last crisis, i don't know antonio weiss. i'm sure's very smart guy and could do a good job. the question is really who would be the best person for this position at this time. >> do you have -- so do you have somebody else? jared was thinking -- >> i don't. but i think there's a number of other consumer advocates, financial regulatory experts, people who have really been in the sausage making, in and around treasury for a long time who would be great fits for the position. >> let me make a point about that, steve, you know, it's important to recognize that mr. weiss, as an undersecretary, will be working under the deputy secretary, sarah bloom rasken. this is someone who has a long history of consumer advocacy and someone who senator warren
really championed and recognized as really -- i think the type of regulate they're both lenore and i recognize is important to have up there, that's basically going to be mr. weiss's boss, if he is confirmed, and she will be driving the regulatory train. that makes me feel a little better about. this >> here is one thing, jerry, my impression from afar watching elizabeth warren in this, also interested in making a statement and having the democratic party make a statement that a democratic party that's had such a close relationship with wall street and wall street that caused so much pain in people's lives the last decade, using this as an opportunity to tell people, you know what, we are looking away from wall street for a change. suspect there an argument to be made for doing it symbolically? >> it is a great argument. half of my article was completely underscoring that argument. let me tell you something from the inside that i think is very important and really isn't part of that argument. when i worked for the obama administration as an economist and we were trying to craft dodd frank and dealing with the recession and recovery act, the
folks on the other side of my progressive/warn/lenore kind of arguments were not necessarily people with wall street experience. i'm not going to name names but the folks that i was arguing against often didn't come from wall street. so, you know, that kind of a litmus test may not be really what's warranted here, no pun intended. >> lenore, final word on this. >> i think we have to look at what would be the best fit for this position at this time and i don't think antonio weiss is it. >> all right. to be continued on this one. my thanks to lenore paladino from demoss, jared bernstein, center of budget and policies. appreciate you joining us this morning. thank you. over a decade since the debut of the bush doctrine and this week, we have a preview of the jeb bush doctrine. we will dissect it. that's next. alright, so this tl arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain.
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jeb bush's biggest liability may be his last name, and that is because of george w. bush, chaos in iraq that dragged down george w. bush's approval rating, the poisonous depths in second term as president and haunted his legacy since. on tuesday, jeb bush, now eyeing a 2016 presidential bid of his own, delivered a 20-minute speech some are describing as the jeb bush doctrine. a meeting of the anti-castro u.s. cuba democracy pac in south florida, bush laid out what he thinks america's role in the world should be. >> we need to have a policy not of unilateralism, although no option should ever be taken off the table. both our country and our president should never negotiate in advance any kind of consideration, but we need a policy of engagement. >> even he's gently inched away from his brother, bush reserved his harshest criticism for president obama.
>> our allies don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us. there is no situation worse for stability and peace than that. the iron rule of superpower deterrent is mean it when you say it. >> so, how much is jeb bush really separating himself from george w. bush's foreign policy legacy? how effective will it be? joining me now is former george w. bush campaign adviser mark mckinnon, now a columnist for the daily beast and co-founder of no labels and msnbc political reporter, kasie hunt, is here with me in the studio. mark, you know this family very well and think of policy and the bushes and i think of george bush senior, the first george bush had a chance to go into baghdad, absolutely wouldn't do it the son absolutely did do it. when you look at jeb bush, which one is easy, the restraint of the father or sort of the -- let's go in there spirit of the son? >> well, probably a mix of the two. you know, first of all, when you see a governor giving a major
foreign policy speech, that's pretty clear indication that he's running. two i would say that i think people saw this speech and conservatives recognize that's, a, really serious on the policy side and very conservative, he's got his own doctrine, very much focused on central and south america and terrorism there, cyber security, so, he is really, talking about going his own way and forging his own foreign policy, but it's a real flag that's getting sear juice about >> i mean, does he believe, i was going back and looking at the speech, hard for me to say, but that idea that sort of animated his brother, animated george w. bush's presidency of just this, the power of sort of testimony mock krk k testimony mock krit testimony mock krit tizization, has he learned from thafrom that?
>> jeb bush thinks we should lean forward, lead from in front and words matter. that would be part of the jeb doctrine. >> i wonder how the republican universe looks at this, aware of the political baggage that comes with the bush name and bush foreign policy tradition, people in the republican party who still believe in it. where is the republican party now, what are they looking for when it comes to foreign policy in >> a couple things on jeb bush and certainly -- any candidacy would be cast in late of his brother and iraq. tough think about what's happened since then, namely, president obama and the raise of senator rand paul. and i think hearing from bush, our words need to mean something that is very much a reflection of the republican party's overall thinking on this president, which is he likes to say things, likes to draw red lines. red lines on syria. >> likes to not follow through. they are looking, i think, for a candidate who is -- who will
push forward with that, we are going to mean what we say. but also, with senator paul there is some significant concern on -- in those factions of the republican party, whether you want to call them neoconservative, not convince they had would call themselves neoconservative anymore, those particular people concerned about israel. >> john mccain, lindsey graham. >> sheldon adeleson a key one, some of big donors, they are looking for somebody who sounds a lot more like jeb bush than rand paul. mark is that one way to maybe interpret this, governors, when delivering foreign policy addresseses that is a pretty clear sign what they are thinking, i agree with that, lack at the con of this speech, telling the types of people in the republican party that kasie was talking about, lack, you're scared of rand paul, i can be the guy who beats rand paul? >> no question, he has firmly established himself to the right of rand paul and ted cruz, which is a real faction now on foreign policy, so this is really separating himself and also
laying down a marker that's very conservative. >> let's put this in a little bit of broader perspective, a poll that came out last week, the republican field, jeb bush, chris christie, you know, sort of running together near the top there, sometimes they throw mitt romney into these things, too, and mitt romney ends up into the lead. there was a story this week, we can also show this, from business insider this week saying romney met recently his inner circle, some emerged convinced that's running. we have been hearing this off and on, mark mckinnon what do you make of the mitt romney stuff? is this just a great smoke screen? an ego trip by a guy getting a few fremonts of press here? do you think there's any chance he runs? >> could be our adlai stevenson. i think there is a chance he could. that -- i saw that as a significant signal this week and in reality, you look at the field and he -- he thinks he could be the establishment candidate again. and you know, it's also something to be said for having run a couple of tapes, he has
got hiss down well, a good candidate, especially in the republican primaries, sitting, having to get out there and deal in the trenches, a lot of candidates. >> would he -- if jeb bush wants to run, does jeb bush sort of get right of first refusal, romney run if bush ran or only if bush doesn't? >> you know, he says he doesn't care what the bush -- what jeb bush would do. i don't think that's really true. i think if jeb bush gets in, he is going to throw a pretty wide net on the establishment money and support. >> kasie, i wonder what you make -- i saw this poll we put up there with bush at 14%, christie, 11%. we think of the bush name, we of the reputation this is the establishment guy this is the one they can all kind of rally around. i'm saying, 14% awfully -- i remember when george w. bush set out in 2000 to run in polls lick this, he was at lick 40%. you're down to 14 now for jeb bush. are we overstating the appetite that's there in the republican party for him? >> i think that, look, very early polls of the an reflection
of name recognition, the bush name is immediately gonna put you -- >> should be higher than 14, right? >> i think what it shows, unlike on the democratic side, hillary is absolutely blowing out the rest of the field there is no one dominant choice for republicans. they have a huge potential field and that's why i think these questions of who's in and who's out are actually going to end up being pretty critical. i would say, his name is there, but what you were talking about as far as who gets the early money, who gets the establishment support, that's gonna sort of say, signal who on that giant long list of candidates, which ones are gonna get squeezed out before they even really have a chance to step forward and to move their number up higher? >> mark mckinnon, quick one-word answer here, we know he is interested in jeb bush, do you think he runs, yes or no? >> i think's in. >> all right. held you to the one-word answer. >> holding to you that, mark. >> mark mckinnon, appreciate you joining us from the daily beast. ms in. bc's kasie hunt. thank you for being with us this morning. election night is not over yet, the official final close 33
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for around $329 a month. we have breaking election news for, nbc news has now called the 36th and final senate election of the year. louisiana democratic senator mary landrieu has officially now been defeated in her bid a fourth term. this in last night's runoff, she lost by a sound margin. bill cassidy, the republican congressman, 56%, landrieu, only 44% that will make cassidy the 54th republican vote mitch mcconnell's new republican senate majority in january. with landrieu's defeat, there will be no democratic senators left from a deep south state. and our next hour, we are going to explore what happened to the southern democrats taking the deep dive with an assist from our big board. but up first, colonel jack jacobs will get a turn of his own at the big board to help
explain what went wrong in that failed hostage rescue in yemen but. enweslplus, wesley clark wi here to explain his analysis. stay with us. i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn't treat chest congestion. really? new alka-seltzer plus day powder rushes relief to your worst cold symptoms plus chest congestion. oh, what a relief it is. here we go! ♪ vicks nyquil severe. helps relieve your ugliest, nastiest, roughest, toughest cold symptoms. vicks nyquil severe. with maximum symptom fighting ingredients. ♪
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as we have been reporting, detai decontinue to emerge this morning about the risky rescue mission yesterday to recover american hostage luke somers from al qaeda captivity. military officials saying the rescue effort "lost the element of surprise before it even began." colonel jack jacobs joins us from the big board. he is going to take a look at the challenges that this particular mission faced. colonel jack what kind of planning went into this operation? >> what's supposed to happen there is a lot of planning, meticulous execution and in order to do that, lots and lots of rehearsals but they didn't have the luxury of time here because the expectation was that al qaeda was gonna execute somers so they had to just go with whatever they had. they had a plan and to execute it as quickly as possible, without all the rehearsals that were necessary under normal
circumstances. you're in an area over here, the objective is somewhere in south central yemen and you position the assets nearby in the gulf of aden. in this particular case, aboard the "uss macon", a ship that typically has lots of rotary winged aircraft, including blackhawks and ospreys like this, tiltrotor aircraft, carry a lot of special operators into the objective area. once you're there, you figure out exactly where you're gonna go, let's say this is the objective, small compound in south central yemen. you don't want to land on top of the objective, 'cause you lose the element of surprise. instead, you land some distance away where they can't hear you and then infiltrate your force under the cover of darkness, took place after midnight and then attract objective. in this instance, they were alerted -- there were some people who were awake, they saw the attacking force and as a
result, a firefight ensued. once the firefight's over, you secure the objective and then you bring in rotary winged aircraft, like the ospreys and blackhawks in order to evacuate casualties, enemy who are captured, intelligence material, the hostages and so on, you bring them back to the "uss macon" or a similar ship and then out of the area. this is an extremely difficult operation to pull off and much, much different than a lot of the operations people have in mind using special operations forces. >> yeah, colonel, on that, what -- do we have a sense, when talking about going into a place lake this where you're trying to rescue people, trying to get them out alive, what the odds are of success for pulling something like this off. >> not as good as going in, for example, going in and getting osama bin laden if you're going to attack to kill or capture enemy, oddly, it's much easier
to do that than it is to go into an area like this and not only kill or capture the enemy, but be able to isolate the hostages from the enemy and bring the hostages out alive, extremely difficult to do. doesn't succeed nearly as often as the -- as the attacks to kill and capture the enemy, very, very tough operation. and done with very little warning. so these things, your honor to the -- unfortunately, don't come out successfully. >> we haven't learned the details yet, any lessons that jump out to you from the experience in this failed mission that we could learn for future ones? >> you know, we had the opportunity to do this before and the mission failed. the mission failed, went about a couple of weeks ago to go snatch him but we didn't get him, we didn't get him because the intelligence wasn't up to speed. they had moved somers just a day before we went into the area. we were able to get some other
hostage bus not somers and points out how important good intelligence is. overhead satellites, we do a lot of that, eavesdropping on telephone conversations. there's nothing -- there's nothing that will compete with good intelligence that will contribute to the successful accomplishment of the mission and so, the lesson here is you got to be vigilant. you got to keep on top of the intelligence. any time somebody is moved, you got to know about it and you have to be able to develop intelligence on the ground. extremely difficult to do in a place like this. in other areas like iraq and afghanistan, they built up areas lots easier because we have people on the ground talking to other people on the ground, place like this, extremely difficult to do. so, the lesson here is stay on top of your intelligence. >> all right, colonel jacobs, the big board used for non-election stuff, very good job, very informative. appreciate that. straight ahead, we will continue this conversation from the perspective of a retired four-star general, former nato
supreme commander wesley clark will be here later. and senator bernie sanders joins us with not just the will he or won't he question about running for president but also the why. you won't want to in miss that. stay with us. ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further.
don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. having less pain... it's a great feeling. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. is t did the u.s. have any choice? thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. next week at this time, the federal government could be shut down, yet again. we are gonna ask two prominent congressmen, one democrat, one republican, whether a deal can be reached before this friday's deadline. also senator bernie sanders from vermont will be here to talk about his plan to rebuild the middle class and maybe his plans to run in 2016. we begin this hour with the new details emerging this morning about the failed operation to
rescue american hostage, luke somers. he and another hostage from south africa were killed in the raid bay the al qaeda militants who had been holding them. nbc's kristen welker joining us live from the north lawn of the white house with the latest. kristen? >> reporter: steve, good morning. i have been talking to senior administrations officials throughout the weekend and one u.s. official describes the rescue mission as a multiagency whole of government effort. it started overnight on thursday. you will remember that's when have a of luke somers was leased by his al qaeda captors who threatened to kill him on saturday. so, we are talking about yesterday. intelligence officials say that they determined the threat was credible. they believe that somers' captors would, in fact, kill him yesterday. they also had credible intelligence about somers' whereabouts base olden their part to initially rescue him. you will recall that happened last month, steve. all of that set off a series of meetings from the pentagon, the state department and right here at the white house. on friday, the president's national security team, i am
told, recommended unanimously that mr. obama approve the mission. he and secretary of defense chuck hagel, who is, of course, outgoing, gave the green light on friday morning. here is how the mission all went down. on friday night, dozens of navy s.e.a.l.s landed about two miles from their target. the american commandos reached what is being described as a cluster of buildings and this's where somers was being held. once the al qaeda captors realized what was happening though, that's when a gun fight broke out. somers and that south african who you mentioned, pierre korkie, were discovered gravely wounded, apparently shot by their captors. they were airlifted, treated by medics, airlifted to as you navy ship but both ultimately died of their wounds. now the u.s. special forces did kill between six to nine al qaeda captors and i am told at this point, it appears as though no civilians were killed when ask if the white house had second thoughts about the mission, one u.s. official told merck look, the president still feels it was the right decision to try to rescue somers because the intelligence about his
location was reliable, he was in that exact location. in a statement yesterday, president obama said "the u.s. would spare no effort to use all of its military intelligence and diplomatic capabilities to bring americans home safely wherever they are located." meanwhile, steve, we are also hearing from his friends and his colleagues today in a statement, his stepmother describes somers as a talented photographer with a sensitive for the people and people's lives. i spoke with one of his colleagues who works at pbs news hour but who had spent some time in yemen as well, steve. that person telling me that he just can't believe that this happened to luke somers. that entire community of people who are his friends and his family just in shock this morning. steve? >> all right, kristen welker live at the white house. thanks for joining us this morning much appreciate that. >> absolutely. thanks. we are joined nowby retired u.s. army general, wesley clark, former supreme allied commander of nato, former presidential candidate, also author. new book "don't wait fort next war." general, welcome, thanks for
being with us. so i mean, listening to what kristen just outlined there, it certainly seems, you know, seems like there was no choice but to take a shot at this, the alternative, they were gonna kill him anyway. the same time, you hear about how this went down, basically, the minute that al qaeda realized that there was a rescue attempt being made, they went in and killed him. and it just raises the question, how can you get these hostages out alive if that's what you're facing? >> sometimes you can get in there with good ingems and you can surprise the enemy and you can get the hostage, sometimes you're not going to succeed. all -- everyone connected in this operation understood the risks but you're faced with the issue of do you let it happen or do you take action, because it's not only about the life of that hostage. in this case, two hostages, but it's also about how you protect americans going forward. it's about whether you increase the value of americans as targets for terrorist
kidnappings or whether you put fear in the hearts of al qaeda and convince them that they will never get away with it. maybe you won't rescue every hostage, but you will never had a team that's holding those hostages that's ever safe and secure. and we will destroy those people who are taking those hostages, time after time, whenever they attempt to do some and that's the united states' policy. this is a long, multiyear, maybe multidecade effort in this region. we are gonna see more of this, as long as they continue to take americans hostage. and i hope the united states is gonna be effective in persuading other governments, including governments like the government of south africa, which reportedly paid money to have the other hostage released, not to do that. we have got to work together and we have got to break this al qaeda hostage taking. >> let me ask you this, i just -- 'cause this summer and early fall, we had a spate of stories about isis, isis taking
hostages, beheading them, being paid ransoms by some european governments, the united states, the uk refusing to do so. this is a different group this is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula doing this is there -- do you have a sense that maybe there are other groups like this group, like al qaeda and the arabian peninsula that maybe saw what isis was doing this summer and sort of a copycat thing now? >> well, it's the way the terrorists can make money. so, if? a tactic that works, then there will be copycat cells all over north africa kand the middle east who will look for americans who were in there for all the right reasons. they will seize them, they will demand payments. they will hold them. so, this is a problem throughout the region, it's not just a single organization, it's the way they make money. the reports from last summer indicated that isis had made millions and millions of dollars from hostage taking. we know this somali pirates in an earlier period were making money off hostage taking and we know we have terrorist cells across north africa and into countries like nigeria with boko
haram, who would do this if they could get their hands on the right americans and thought they could pull it off or the right europeans. so, yes this is a threat throughout the region. >> the other thing is i wonder what you would say, how would you say, from a standpoint of policy, let me put it this way, from a standpoint of policy what you are saying about why we should never pay ransoms, i totally understand, the policy of the united states, but when talking to one of these families has a son, a daughter, who is being held by these groups, and that family is made aware that, hey, if we can just raised 1 million, $2 million, somehow we can come one that money ourselves, we will see our son again and if we don't, we won't. how do you tell that family to resist that urge? >> well, there's two issues here, one is even if the money's raised, you may or may not get your loved one back, because delivering this money and having the hostage released, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's a matter of back and forth communication is the
price gets raised. secondly, i think that all the american people and those families know that they want their government to be involved trying to bring these people back to freedom. now, these european governments, south african governments, they don't have the capacities to mount a rescue operation. so, they buy it off. but by buying it off, you're feeding the threat and you're making more likely that other families and other loved ones will suffer the same fate afterwards. so i think in this case, it's one of those terrible things, if you're a family and you've got a loved one that's going into that area, then i think you have to be aware of the risks and you have to really think again about doing this, because these people are in danger, they are targeted, they are like a walking cash cow for terrorists. so, got to really think hard about whether we want to do that or not. >> we obviously had the intelligence, sufficient intelligence to find out pretty much exactly where they were
being held, the two hostages being held for this mission to begin and apparently, previous effort recently where they had been moved at the last minute which raises the question, a group like al qaedaed in the arabian peninsula, groups like isis, we always talk about our intelligence to find out where they are, how good is their intelligence to know where we are? >> well, they do have intelligence, you know, and they are getting better and better at it you know, a decade ago when the united states first started, it wasn't that easy for them they didn't understand the technology, the techniques, the hard wake the way we operate, they have gotten better and better at this, yes, you can buy commercial satellite imagery. you can probably buy electronic eavesdropping. you can listen on youtube and hear people talk and report things that perhaps shouldn't be reported. we are getting a tremendous amount of information, let's say, about russian activities in ukraine by simply monitoring youtube and watching what people post on facebook. so, there are ways in which information leaks out, but i'd
like to think that our ability to protect our own movements and our own intentions is pretty good. and it's able to be controlled and especially when you have an aircraft carrier or an am fab off the coast like this and it's moving. yes, it may have been seen in a port and yes, there may be fishermen out there who can see things and who knows, but we know how to sanitize that area, if we have to. and we can do that. so, i'm sure we will be tightening up our own intelligence and counterintelligence procedures after this. >> all right, retired army general wesley clark, thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you. all right, how the holidays are threatening to bring another government shutdown bay the end of this week. we will investigate the why and whether it can be prevented with two people in a position to stop it. that's next. i was just looking at your credit report site. do you guys have identity theft protection? [ male voice ] i'm sorry, did you say identity distribution? no. protection. identity theft protection.
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so, stop me if you've heard this one before, congress has until midnight this thursday to pass some kind of legislation to fund the government and if it doesn't, then the government is going to shut down again this friday, december 12th. this latest round of brinkmannship has everything to do with president obama's recent executive action on immigration reform with some on the right demanding an all-out push to stop funding for the department of homeland security, which is implementing the president's orders. desperate to avoid another shutdown though, the house's republican leadership has put together a two-step plan, the first step involved a resolution rebuking the president for his executive action and that resolution passed, mostly on party lanes this past thursday. now, this week comes the harder part, a bill that would keep the government open for a year but with one exception, making funding for the department of homeland security expire a few months from now, which would
allow conservatives to stage another fight then over the president's immigration action. there is some dissent on the right here. house conservatives are complaining they are being rush wood i their leadership as the hill describes it "house conservatives are griping that speaker john boehner is putting the squeeze on them by rushing through $1 trillion spending bill." so, if that bill to keep the government open and to stop it from shutting down is gonna pass this week, republican leaders are going to need some help from democrats. so is this a deal that democrats can live with? republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania, democrat bill pascrell of new jersey, both sides of the aisle, they join us now. thanks for joining us. congressman dent, i will start with you on the republican side, how confident are you right now that there will not be a shutdown this week? >> i am very confident there is not going to be shut down. i thank you a lot of my colleagues learned a regard lesson a little over a year ago and certainly no education to be gained by the second kick of the mule and certainly no wisdom from the third or fourth kick. >> but to listen to some of the
rhetoric coming out of there, it sounds like there's an appetite, especially because this executive action thing, to find some way to undo it through playing with funding for dhs and -- >> well there are a handful of members who, you know, i think would take must that direction. but overwhelmingly, think most of the members in the house, you know, want to pass the cromny bus or omnibus or at least move forward, clear the decks now so we can start the new year with a fresh agenda. >> congressman pascrell, it might come to you as a democrat to provide a critical vote to get this thing passed, if a handful of republican, a dozen of them, a couple dozen of them say, you know, this isn't enough, we don't want to vote for this bill, you're going to need democrats to get it across, this bill, the one we outlined there, something we have to live with? >> we have to pass the legislation but we don't have to be handmaidens, we don't have to -- let them vote first and then vote, let them put up their votes, not all of the -- >> let it go down and then let it come back or -- >> yeah, it's -- some way it will pass, hopefully by 3:00
thursday afternoon. some way it will pass. but we don't have reasonable members, like charlie kent accident on the other side. charlie dent is not an exception, a lot of good republicans who think and try to resolve their problems. but the majority, i think, are caught up in being pushed by the tea party folks and they have gotten away with it for a couple of years and they are going to continue to do it. i mean, they use this immigration thing as an excuse, if it wasn't immigration, it would be something else. there's no doubt about t. >> they want the showdown. >> absolutely, they want a showdown on every situation. and to hold homeland security hostage, charlie, to me, is a pretty -- particularly in the situation we are going to right now throughout the world, is not the right way to do this. in my opinion. >> so, if this gets through this week, it means that funding for the whole government is basically good for a year, except funding for the department of homeland security, which would come up again early
next year and then your party or would want to fight that all over again then? >> no, actually, my preference is to pass an omnibus, all 12 -- >> you want everything passed? >> i want it all passed. >> what they are putting together -- >> not 12. i serve on the homeland security committee and i helped draft that bill, a lot of good stuff in there, i don't particularly want to cr that, kick that into the new year because come february or march, we will pass the homeland security at prop preyations bill, i would just assume pass it now, this week. that's my preference, if the votes aren't there bill said --'s clever guy, bill, he is a friend, look, he is smart, he thinks the republicans, the republicans should put the votes up, 218 before one democrat should vote for it i don't blame them. what i would do but we should -- but the point is if there aren't the votes for the cromny bus, i would say pass the omnibus. >> the way it was explained to merck the sort of tea party crowd wants to fight over the immigration executive action and
that, hence they want to put dhs funding on the table. but even if you stopped dhs funding, the way this thing is being implemented it would still go forward is that right? >> pretty much. much of the u.s. citizens immigration service, uscis is funding through fees and they are gonna get their fees, regardless. so, yeah, i don't think it's a particularly good tactic. i think the way that we republicans should respond to the president's executive action on immigration is by passing some immigration bills in the new year. >> that's what the president wants. and that's exactly what the president's strategy is, charlie and that is you have the senate bill for so long, you didn't do anything. i don't mean you personally, you didn't do it, the president said i'm going to do something about tax critical thing. if immigration is broken, this is my response to it and you have time to pass legislation to undo what i'm trying to do rather than let's go to court, let sue the president. come on, that's not gonna go any
place. >> well, first, look, the president's executive action, i think he overstepped his authority, even the "washington post" editorialized this is a sweeping step. that said -- >> well, they are not the litmus test of what's legal and not legal here. >> this is a whole class of people that the president has, you know, has suspended deportations from. i think this is unprecedented. >> you agree with it though? what if we voted on that tomorrow? what if we voted to do what the president did in executive orderer? would you vote for that? >> let me tell you what i will do. i will vote on a step-by-step basis for several immigration bills. i don't want to do one big comprehensive bill. i want to do border security, i want to do interior enforcement, e-verify, children, you can accompanied children and i'm prepared to have an honest, adult conversation about the 11 million people in this country unlawfully and deal with them in a way that i think will be -- >> and you may. you want to deal with them
humanelism and i -- >> well, congressman -- >> that might be with the republicans increasing their majority in the house that sort of piecemeal approach, what goodlatte has been talking about that may be the reality of what they pursue there, do you see any common ground there, okay there under certain circumstances? >> most of what they might suggest and i haven't seen it in writing about we do this individually, step-by-step, i can agree with. i wish they could have done that with health care, but they didn't, chose not to do that. i think that we are gonna have a long fight over immigration regardless of what happens, whether the president did this last week or not, doesn't matter. i think we are going to have a long fight over. this and i think border security is a ruse. i think if it wasn't that, they would get something else in order to hold up immigration. the system is broken, we need a change and if the chamber of commerce is for it, it can't be
so bad, charlie. >> let me ask but this, we have limited time left, 'cause we heard this after the 2012 election, if there's one thing the two parties are gonna agree on after this, it's immigration reform. we just finished the 2014 election, didn't happen. by the time the 2016 election comes around, do you think congress will have passed ant president will have signed some comp mean sive form of immigration reform? >> yes. >> i believe we will see some progress on immigration reform. i can't say we will pass every piece of it but i think -- certainly think you will see it on things like border security, e-verify, s.t.e.m. workers and hopefully agricultural workers at the very least, maybe the children. >> senator a little less confident. my thanks to bill pascrell from new jersey, charlie dent from pennsylvania. appreciate you joining us this morning. a new proposal by president obama to improve policing but will it work? that's next.
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last night, police used tear gas to disburperse protesters i berkeley, california. some in the crowd broke windows and looted stores. one of the demands made by protesters in recent weeks, demand made by the family of unarmed teen michael brown who was killed by police officer darren wilson in august and demand has been for police to wear body cameras to capture their interactions with the public. and that idea got a major boost this week from president obama. the president is proposing $75 million in federal spending to help state and local police departments outfit their officers with cameras. i think ferguson laid bare a problem that is not unique to st. louis or that area, and is not unique to our time.
and that is a simmering distrust that exists between too many police departments and too many communities of color. i'm going to be proposing some new community policing initiatives that will significantly expand funding and training for local law enforcement, including up to 50,000 additional body-worn cameras for law enforcement agencies. >> obama's proposal follows experiments with body cameras in cities nationwide. new york city the nation's largest police force, started their body cam pilot program this weekend. but then in new york city this week, this also happened, a grand jury dexlined to indict new york city police officer daniel pantaleo in the choke hold death of eric garner, even though garner's death was recorded on camera by a bystander. even after seeing garner held by the throat by police, even after hearing garner cry "i can't breathe" 11 times, the grand jury still declined to issue an indictment.
are body cameras the policy response we need to improve law enforce n this country? joining me to answer that question, baltimore mayor stephanie rollins blake, who spores body cameras but vetoed a city council bill on several concerns, including privacy and with us is former police officer and prosecutor eugene o'donnell, professor at john jay college of criminal justice. mare blake, i will start with you. here's what i'm interested in. you support cod body cameras and vetoed bill for technical reasons this week. i'm curious, we talk in the big picture about body camera, how does this work, in terms of how often do the cameras have to be on? are they on 24/7? does the officer control who turns them on or off? does the public have access to, you know, can we get the recordings from officer charge. ? how will it work, practically speaking? >> and those are the reasons, those questions that you asked should have been asked by the council before they passed that bill. they have a bill that required the officers to wear the body cams, but they didn't even require that they turn them on.
we have to be more thoughtful and thorough if we are going to get this right and we have to answer those questions. tough answer those questions because what happens if a camera is on and a woman calls for a domestic violence complaint? the officer responds, she is battered, she is bruised, what if that becomes public information? we have to deal with those privacy concerns. >> how would you, as the mare, see it work, practically speaking? >> well, what i want to do is what we are doing, we have a work group with the aclu, we have lawyers, we have community members, we have law enforcement people that are all looking at these issues and working together to come out with something that works for baltimore. this isn't a cookie cutter approach. this san approach that i believe needs to be led and included the community needs to be included to make sure we get it right, that's what i'm doing and looking forward to getting that report next month so we can do the implementation and make sure it works. >> so, eugene, obviously, law enforcement background, this is now happening in new york city happening elsewhere, what is the reaction of the average cop being told you are wearing a
camera now, what do you think about that? >> i say we have to have an honest conversation about policing, they use force and it's never pretty and they are not automatically protected and they could become averse to involvement. we have a lot of police departments in the country that are basically employment agencies, the cops drive around, they get there late, they don't engage, struggle on 8th street, slow on 10th street. i have serious doubts whether this will be beneficial, keep our equilibrium, issues about brutality, acknowledge cities in the country, minority communities, the communities asking for police to engage not disengage, very concerned about this looks like mayor walsh in boston also has concerns whether this is going to make cops take steps back. >> you're saying the cop may be pauses, maybe thinks twice, maybe says, it's not necessarily we talk about these dramatic and horrible situations that make the news, but it's more every day stuff that people might -- might be able to quibble with and say that's little over the line or a little tough, whatever, it is really every day policing? >> i have to say bluntly, i see some real class issues here in
terms of the expectation, the cops are unwise enough to get theseselves into these situations, they don't have, again, automatic protection, every time they engage somebody, they could be indicted that makes their job unique and the idea that we are going to look at a video, ex post facto, when they are in these sometimes life and death situations and say for eight seconds, it was okay, the ninth second was not okay, i think we have to take a step become on that and have a police industrial complex, tasers, tasers selling cameras and they are pushing this stuff. tasers may make the police more violent. no the sure about that. so we have to have some real, honest conversations, probably not a great time to have a full-scale conversation about this. >> well, mayor, i'm curious, just listening to what eugene just said, curious what your response is. >> i think eugene makes a good point, i think in far too many places around the country, there's a knee jerk reaction, get cameras on police as soon as possible without asking the tough questions and without understanding that this is not a -- body cameras respect going
to solve all of our problems and the eric garner case, there was tape and the community is still concern and the family is still upset and we have protests all throughout the country, not because the camera -- there wasn't footage of it, but because of the outcome, it's clear that we need a holistic approach, including work that like we are doing in baltimore. i asked the department of justice to come in to help us with our community policing efforts, we have to do better with training. it's clear that cameras are one thing, but it has to include the types of training and the types of engagement that rebuilds the trust that the community and the police need to have with each other. you know, it's important, the people are saying all around the country, when you see these protesters saying something very loud and clear, is do you hear me? do you see me? do i matter? and with proper community policing, that's when we get that right, that we can show the community, yes, they do matter and yes, you know this is a partnership, a true partnership. >> all right, baltimore mayor
stephanie rawlings-blake, former prosecutor, eugene o'donnell, thanks for joining us this morning. thanks a lot. senator bernie sanders, our interview with him. and up next, the president's weekend doesn't go exactly as planned. interesting detail there is on the other side of the break. and the legion of super fans. wow! [ narrator ] on a mission to get richard to his campbell's chunky soup. it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. i love it. and mama loves you. ♪ alright, so this tylenol andarthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain. she still does it the old way. i haven't told her i switched to tide pods. it's a concentrated, 3-1 detergent that gives me an amazing clean with just one pack. you already knew? i can't keep a secret in this family. that's my tide.
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we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. >> that is mary landrieu, senator mary landrieu from louisiana, addressing her supporters last night in louisiana. we can show you what happened. this is it. this is the final outstanding senate race of 2014. this was the runoff in louisiana, mary landrieu, a three-term democratic incumbent, she was defeated last night by congressman bill cassidy, a republican. bill cassidy will now become the 54th republican in the new senate in january. remember, just two years ago,
republicans were left with 45 that means they have gained a total of nine seats in the senate in the 2014 midterms.what's so interesting about these numbers here, in the original election, in the jungle primary a month ago, mary landrieu came in with 42%, in the mons since then, stayed right there climbed a point or two, what happened was there was another republican candidate in that jungle primary and basically, all those votes went to bill cassidy and that's the story of it. mary landrieu loses by 12 points. again, we can see inside the numbers here exactly how this happened. there was no exit poll last night, we can't break this down too exactly. i think we have a pretty good scene what is going on here, look back to 2008, the last time mary landrieu was re-elected, 52% of the vote, got re-elected in 2008. if you look at the white vote in louisiana, these are voters will once, a generation ago two generations ago, all democratic, steadily moving to the republican party in 2008, mary landrieu was still able to get 33% of them. in the jingle primary a month
ago when she just got 42%, look at that, she only got 18% of the white vote. looks like she is stuck around that number. again, we don't have actual exit polls from last night, my guess would be she is at or below 20%. when you are a democrat, when you are in the south, when you are at or below 20% of the white vote, you are not going to be winning anymore. that is why we are saying this is a story about mary landrieu, about louisiana, this is a much bigger story about the south and about the evolution of american politics, really over the last 50 years. and what i mean by that is let's look back 50 years ago, 1964, this is the south in 1964. these are the states of the old confedera confederacy, senate representation from those state, every states blue, two democratic senators, they all had two democratic senators, texas had one republican, john tower, the other democrat, a total in the south 50 years ago of 21 democratic senators and just one republican. that's how dominant the democratic party was in the south, the democratic party in the south was defined by
conservative whites back then, many african-americans couldn't even vote in the south in 1964. you had the civil rights revolution, the voting rights act, demographics changed in the south. look at this now. 50 years later, after last night, accounting for louisiana now electing another republican senator this is what the south now looks like. you have two democratic senators from virginia. and virginia is a state that demographically is becoming more and more northern, a lot of people from the north moving in. that's one of the reasons it's become so blue and florida, you have a democratic senator, again, florida, another state where the demographics have been changed by northerners moving down, beyond that you don't have a single democratic senator left in the entire south. now louisiana is all republican after last night for the first time since reconstruction, a total of 19 republicans in the south, just three democrats, mary landrieu was the last deep south democrat left in the senate. so it's basically a complete flip from where this country was 50 years ago. that's the bigger story about what happened last night. one other thing we want to note
in louisiana, i would be remiss if i did not mention there was a runoff for a congressional seat, you see here edwin edwards, the democrat, losing, not surprising he lost by this much, very republican district but edwin edwards, if you know this name, a throwback politician, think of the days like huey long, the rogue politician, he was the governor of this state, of the state of louisiana four different times, did he time in federal prison. he ran, in fact in 1991, he ran for governor, famous race, his opponent was david duke, the former klan leader, the bumper sticker for edwin edwards says vote fort crook, it's important and he won that race easily. get out of jail a few years ago, 87 years old, figured what do i do with my life, hey, i'm in politics run for office. he ran in this election, nobody expected him to win but looks like this might be the end of the line for the political career of edwin edwards. funny story, he was asked last night what are your plans now after you have lost? i'm going who emto get some sleep? what are you going to do after that? well, i will wake up and i will have breakfast. so, edwin edwards, very colorful
career, looks like it might have come to an end last night, that is the story from louisiana. and up next, that interview we have been talking about all morning with bernie sanders, talk to him about maybe running for president. that's next. right now, you can get a single line with 3 gigs for $65 a month. 3 gigs ... is that a lot? that's about...100 app downloads, 45 hours of streaming music, and 6 hours of video playing. (singing) and five golden rings! ha, i see what you did... (singing) four calling birds...three french hens... (the guys starts to fizzle out) two... turtle... doves... i really went for it there ya you did... you really, really did now get 3 gigs of data on one line for $65 a month. switch to at&t, buy a new smartphone and get $150 credit per line.
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where the people on top have never had it so good and what we are saying today is the head of mcdonald's and to the united states government is that the wealthy cannot have it all. >> that's right. >> working people deserve a fair shake. >> so no secret by now that bernie sanders is considering running for president from the left as "the new yorker's" john cassidy work this week, sanders putting together his progressive manifesto, put democrats to his side of the political spectrum on issues like economic regulation, trade and health care. i talked to bernie sanders on friday about his efforts to make his party or the party he may eventually join more, aggressive. senator bernie sanders, thank you for joining us. so you laid out on the senate floor recent lay 12-point economic agenda and i think people can read that as your agenda, sort of your wish list
for the next congress over the next two years and i think other people can look at that and say that's potentially a platform for a presidential candidacy. so i want to talk to you about both. let's start with the congress that's going to be seated in january for the next two years. this 12-point agenda you laid out. is there anything in there specifically, given that you have a republican house, a republican senate and obama obviously still in the white house. is there anything in there specifically that you believe can and will be passed in the next two years? >> the answer is yes. i think if the president remains strong and if we can rally the american people to demand the congress start working on the disappearing middle class and the growing gap between the rich and the poor, i think we can implement some important policies. right now the fastest way to create the millions of jobs we desperately need is by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems, rail, et
cetera. if we invested $1 trillion over a period of years, we can create 13 million jobs. you know why -- >> i'm sorry, senator, do you think that level of investment, given everything we have seen from the republican republican house over the last four years, do you think that level of investment or anything approaching it is realistic to come out of the republican congress? >> well, you're right. i don't think we will get as much as i want or as much as we need. on the other hand, you have conservatives like jim iminoff of the public works committee who does believe in infrastructure as well as other republican senators and members of the house. so i do hope with the president's support that we can begin substantially investing in infrastructure and creating jobs. other area, i think the minimum wage at $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. i think it has to be raised over a period of time to $15 an hour. but you have people like mitt romney and other republicans
talking about raising the minimum wage. you have four conservative states in the last election voting to raise the minimum wage. do i think the republicans are smart enough to know this is an issue they can move on? i do, and i hope we can make progress there as well. >> as i said, it's something people can look at and say, bernie sanders is exploring a bid for president, a platform to run for president, one of the things people look at is hillary clinton is the big front-runner, everybody acknowledges that on the democratic side right now. when you look at the principle that is you laid out here, the 12 steps you laid out here, realistically, do you believe hillary clinton is in line with you on them or are there differences you see with her potentially? >> my suggestion is to ask hillary clinton about her views on this. i can't speak for hillary clinton. what i do know is virtually every one of the issues, infrastructure, raising the minimum wage, paid equity, transforming the energy system,
demanding and passing legislation, to ask the wealthiest people in the largest corporations of this country to start paying their fair share of taxes. you know what? these are very popular issues that go across the political spectrum. the american people know there's something wrong when the middle class is disappearing and 95% of all new income today goes to the top 1%. so that is an important set of principles that any serious candidate should run on. >> yeah, and i guess what i wonder about is when i listen to democrats, and this includes hillary clinton, she hasn't said too much specifically, that's sort of by design the last few months, but when i listen to her speak in broad terms of principle, i hear what you just said. pay equity, closing the gap between rich and poor in this country, eliminating economic inequality. i hear that from her and every big name democrat out there. it seems on the core principles, i don't hear much difference between you and most other democrats in washington. so where are the differences that would encourage you to run
for president? >> really? i have spent my entire political career taking on every special interest. that's one thing for somebody to talk about, well, we have to expand the middle class, we have to create jobs, everybody says that. including republicans. i think what you have to look at with the specifics of the program that people are outlining, i will be outlining a very specific program within the next few months. >> senator, that's what i'm asking you there, in terms of when you get beyond the broad strokes rhetoric here, i agree with you, you hear that from everybody, so when you look at the democratic party and the leaders of the democratic party, where are they falling short specifically? >> well, we need, for example, we are losing $100 billion every single year because corporations are stashing their money, their profits in the caymen islands and bermuda. i'm going to bring forward and have brought forward legislation
to end that absurd practice. i happen to believe that the united states should not be the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people to a national health care program. i support a single pay and national health care program. i happen to believe that our current trade policies, nafta, permanent normal trade relations with china are a disaster which have lost us millions of jobs and going abroad to countries. i want to change fundamentally trade policies so companies reinvest in america, not china. are those the issues you hear from a lot of folks? >> if you do go ahead and run in the democratic primaries, you have to change your party registration to become a democrat. that's something you have not been throughout your political career are. you comfortable potentially making that step? >> well, that's an issue i'm talking, a, i don't know if i'm going to run or not. look, steve, if you run a campaign based on the principles i believe in, which is
ultimately we don't make change in this country unless we take on the billionaire class, which now has so much economic and political power. in order to do that, you need to run an unprecedented grassroots campaign. are there millions of people who are prepared to stand up and work really, really hard? getting involved in that kind of campaign. you know what? you don't know that, i don't know that. i have to determine that before i make a decision. what you're asking me is i'm the longest serving end pindependen the united states congress. if i do pursue the campaign, can i do it in the structural of the democratic party or outside the party? that's a difficult question. i'm also trying to get some understanding of where people are coming on that. there are positives and negatives of either approach. >> and where at this point in terms of your decision, do you have a sense of when you'll have a decision made? >> i'll make it at the appropriate time. i think people in this country are not necessarily sympathetic to never-ending campaigns.
so i think we have some time to do it. on the other hand, obviously, there's a point if you're going to go forward where you have to make a decision. >> senator bernie sanders, independent, at least for now from vermont. appreciate you taking the time this morning. appreciate that. >> thank you, steve. all right. bernie sanders, we'll keep an eye out on what he does. we have a few extra seconds at the end of the show, so i want to give a shout-out to a team you have never heard of. the new jersey institute of technology. the hilanders, the only independent team in all of college that went to the university of michigan yesterday. it was their first time ever playing a ranked team. just recently they had a 5 51-losing streak and yesterday they won. congratulations to the hilanders. thank you for joining us this weekend. we'll be back next sunday at 8:00 a.m.
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get under his skin that his own running mate is not defending him. i'm curious the kind of mood in trump world right now. >> you know, i have not heard that they're upset by governor pence's performance in any way or that they're worried that he might have upstaged donald trump. there was a lot of pushback to that reporting from the campaign. but what i can tell you was that before they were deciding on who was going to be donald trump's running mate, there was some concern about choosing somebody who would upstage donald trump, somebody like newt gingrich or chris christie who is more of a politician, a more practiced politician, bombastic politicians who know a lot more about policy than donald trump does. so there is precedent for that feeling, but i'm not getting anything from the campaign about them feeling like governor pence did too good of a job last night. but what i do know is that ty want to get donald trump better prepared for this next debate coming up on sunday. i was talking to aides last week, and they were talking about getting him a debate coach
perhaps, also standing him behind a podium to see what that would be like. this next debate won't be behind a podium, but just to get him more used to that feeling. also finding a way to get underneath hillary clinton's skin in a way that she was able to get underneath donald trump's skin, taking her off her game and also pivoting to territory that's more comfortable for him. governor pence did all that decently, if you're going to look at just style and the way that he was able to compose himself during his debate last night. donald trump did not do that, but i can tell you this, chris, i have asked the campaign multiple times this week what they're doing specifically for debate prep, they're just not answering the question. they've gone completely silent on this idea. he's had a pretty robust schedule. he has a campaign rally tomorrow or an event tomorrow in new hampshire. we're going to find out if he has anything else on friday or saturday, but remember before the first debate he had campaign rallies up until the days before and that seemed to hurt him
because he didn't seem as prepared certainly as hillary clinton was. so we're not entirely sure how much debate prep donald trump is doing, but i can tell you the campaign did feel like he needed much more going into this second debate. >> all right, katy tur, thanks for that update from las vegas, nevada. joining me now, a political reporter from "the new york times" and editor and publisher of "the nation" which endorsed hillary clinton today. why progressives should vote for hillary clinton. here's the thing i found most fascinating. donald trump such a maelstrom, the singular force and directs such attention, he so bizarrely fit into republican and modern conservative orthodoxy, in other ways he's a rejection of it. but then you forget that there's an entire republican party, there's literally thousands of people around the country governing at different levels that are not donald trump. this was kind of like what's
going on in that world. a great line today, if pence was a designated survivor o the republican primary, a man held away from the carnage trump has inflicted in the republican party, its conventions, orthodox es and pieties. >> i don't think this country will be the same. i don't think either party will be the same after this election. it's an up-end the rules election. we saw last night an element of the republican party which has been descending, not ascending, even before donald trump -- >> that's interesting. >> -- took this -- >> by that you mean social -- >> social conservatism. if you think what has roiled this election year, it has been populism, economic issues, the class divisions within parties, it has been economic insecurity and not the social issues which so animated the republican party. so we can talk all we want about preparation and this and that. last night we did see an extremist give really extremist positions a reassuring face. but the big issues facing i think this country and both
parties, disruptive globalization, populist nagsablism and the end of party work. how they do it will be central to their future. >> i think that trump has shown that faith voters are not the faith voters we thought they were. >> right. >> you know, that faith, religiosity, social issues as they are normally constructed are not necessarily any more the main drivers of politics in that part of that party. they have the same appetite on immigration, on populism and frankly on rage politics as the peer trumpista. you can't go back to that old model anymore. >> i remember in 2004 when the whole idea was the first evangelical president george w. bush, building america by tom edsel, there's a new rising evangelical base that would support this republican majority. my reminder last night was, look, donald trump, if he's elected president, there are
going to be thousands of mike pence acolytes, people with those politics on social issues who will be in the government. >> yeah, but i'm also thinking we talk a lot about young people, millennials in this election, we see even younger evangelicals, an unwillingness to go with climate denialism and which mike pence is, too, and donald trump. we've seen an opening there. and we've seen, though not as clearly as we thought, republican party can no longer be the party of white sanctuary nationally. >> they think they can abouty. >> they think they can be. the economic security in this country, the bad health outcomes, the end of the coal industry which is not due to hillary clinton but to fracking. so how we as a country come together to confront these challenges. donald trump i love we endorse hillary clinton. i say that only in the sense that when you see someone heading the republican party
poking an eye in the chamber of commerce's eye and poking an eye at the orthodoxy of a failed, discredited foreign policy and economic establishment even while he has failed in a spectacular loser i think is important. >> this is what i find so interesting. there's this little seduction to the left. >> it's not left -- >> no, there is, there's a seduction for little parts of the left in donald trump precisely because he has in many respects the right enemies. >> we endorsed bernie sanders because he was about inclusivity. donald trump is about bigotry and hate. [ many speaking at once ] >> there are voters on the trail who say my first vote was donald trump, my second choice was sandruss. >> i likeshaking up a discredited establishment. bernie sanders did that. >> here's the argument right here. the atlantic for the third time is endorsing.
so as soon as donald trump went off stage, mike pence sat down at the table and said basically yeah if we have to shoot down russian planes over syria, let's shoot down russian planes over syria. he was extraordinarily hawkish. >> the reason you see the party leaders behind trump is not that he's the presidential nominee, they think that if he's the president, it's them in the driver's seat. >> exactly. >> it's the foreign policy the usual -- >> they think they're going to get their trade deals. >> they think they're going to get their way. >> yes. >> because he so often -- but i do think anything we can do to force a debate to shake up the establishment -- >> you're -- [ many speaking at once ] >> we have toefeat donald trump. >> sometimes establishment shaking involves figures like donald trump. thanks for being with me tonight. still ahead how donald trump's headline grabbing personality overshadows the larger problems in the republican party and how mike pence, governor of indiana,
is a perfect reminder of that. did trump take advantage of a mistake in the tax code to pay no taxes after this loss. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of pointsc. learmoret chase.com/ink announcer: they'll test you. try to break your will. but however loud the loudness gets. however many cheese puffs may fly. you're the driver. the one in control. stand firm. ju wait. [click] and move only when you hear the click
that says they're buckled in for the drive. never give up till they buckle up. narrator: it wasn't that long ago. years of devastating cutbacks to our schools. 30,000 teachers laid off. class sizes increased. art and music programs cut. we can't ever go back. ryan ruelas: so vote yes on proposition 55. reagan duncan: prop 55 prevents 4 billion in new cuts to our schools. letty muñoz-gonzalez: simply by maintaining the current tax rate on the wealthiest californians. ryan ruelas: no new education cuts, and no new taxes.
reagan duncan: vote yes on 55. sarah morgan: to help our children thrive. his tax returns showed he went through a very difficult time, but he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. >> how do you know that? we haven't seen his tax returns. >> bhis created a business worth billions of dollars. >> how do you know that? >> when tim kaine kept hammering pence about donald trump's tax returns, it wasn't just about the tax returns. america has never in its history elevated someone to its highest office with less public service experience than donald trump. but trump, of course, does have a long business career, which is american public might be able to accurately judge as the entirety of his resume if he'd release his tax returns. "the new york times" revelation on trump's decades old tax return did shed some light on the subject.
he declared a $916 million loss on his 1995 income tax returns, a tax deduction so substantial it could have allowed him to legally avoid paying any federal income taxes for up to 18 years. trump first responded to that news by saying he had brilliantly used the tax laws to his benefit. mike pence echoed that last night. it's actually the fault of -- wait for it -- hillary clinton. >> she complains about how i have used the tax laws of this country to may benefit. then i ask a simple question. why didn't she ever try to change those laws so i couldn't use them? you know why? she could have changed the laws when she was in the united states senate, but she didn't. >> but, as noted by our next guest, it just so happens there was an egregious tax loophole in the 1990s created by accident which was closed by the job creation and workers assistance act of 2002 a bill that then senator hillary clinton voted
for and president george w. bush signed and it's entirely possible that is the exact tax loophole donald trump may have used if he did indeed manage to avoid paying taxes for nearly two decades. joining me the man who wrote about that tax loophole today, josh barro. we should note we're speaking in the hypothetical because we don't actually know. >> we don't know. we've only seen the first page of this tax return. if we'd have seen the whole return, we could talk more concretely about what's in it. >> how do you lose that much money? >> people haven't quite grasped how big this loss is. obviously $916 million is an enormous amount of money. but the provision he took, the net operating loss. when your business has losses that exceed all your income, you have a negative income. when you look at all the tax returns in the entire country in 1995, there was about $49 billion of that which means donald trump accounted for 2% of the net operating loss in the entire country. >> of the entire gdp of the u.s.
>> right. >> all the different firms and places that are operating. >> it's just individual income tax, but yeah, anyone who has a business like trump's that's owned as an individual company. did he really have $900 million of his own to lose in these businesses that we know did do very badly, in fact, in the early 1990s, his casinos, his airlines. he had three casino bankruptcies. so he did lose a lot of money, but there was this tax loophole. when you're like trump and you own this business and it goes bust and you lose money and the people who loaned you money also lose lots of money, normally those losses are split. the banks don't get paid back, they take part of the loss and you take part. the part that is really yours, you get to write that off your taxes. but there was an error in the way a specific kind of business form was taxed that basically allowed if there was a loss where trump was out 100 million and the banks were out 800 million, he could have written off the entire 900 million off
his taxes even though he really only lost 100 million. >> this is great. i love this. he could write off the bank's loss essentially on the loan. >> yeah. >> it was just a mistake in the tax code. >> it was a mistake in the tax code. as people started filing their taxes using this provision, the irs looked at this and said, this isn't right. there were years of litigation in the tax courts and it got to the supreme court in 2001 and the supreme court said the law does say this even though that's stupid. if you want to change it, you have to change the law. that's how we got this 2002 change. but up until 2002 people, including potentially donald trump, could have used this provision to claim losses on their taxes -- >> that they didn't -- was not their loss. >> yeah. >> so what i love about this story, is, a, it's a sort of window into how complicated and screwed up the tax code can often be? >> right. >> but in this case, it was fixed. they realized it was kraedz and they fixed it. >> this is unusually bad. usually people with loss of income, this is a particularly
egregious provision which is why it got fixed. nobody thought this was a good idea. it happened by accident. >> what i love about the story, this is like from two pages. the amount like eric trump and donald jr. have at various times sort of let the cat out of the bag that the real reason they're not releasing the tax returns is because it would we politically damaging. they've said as much. not just the audit. you get a sense how much information would be packed into these returns if we saw them. >> if what the returnsaid is the story that donald trump has told public which i which is that he built this big empire, lost it, clawed his way back through his own genius and now making more money than ever, you would think he'd want to release the tax returns. but i suspect what they say is actually that this loophole is what they use. this isn't the only tax information that we've seen. we've seen this tax return -- tax information on him from nine different tax years going back
to the 1970s. the highest income he ever reported was less than $120,000. that was back in 1977. we know of six years in which he reported no -- negative income. so the question for me if this was a real loss like mike pence said in the debate. >> he had a bad year. >> when did he make all that money? >> great point. >> we've not seen any tax return that says oh, donald trump made $200 million this year. >> that's a great point. josh barro, thanks for explaining that. >> sure. >> new battleground state polling, how the seemingly unprecedented volatile campaign is falling into a familiar pattern. i'll explain, ahead.
the paris agreement alone won't solve the climate crisis, but this agreement will help delay or avoid some of the worst consequences of climate change. >> today president obama announced that enough nations have now signed on to the paris climate agreement for it to be implemented beginning in 30 days. the first of its kind global treaty requires each nation to set specific targets for carbon emission reduction, then report its progress publicly. it just so happens that earlier today t president was meeting with fema officials to prepare for hurricane matthew, a massive storm that has already claimed 25 lives that made landfall yesterday. after moving through the caribbean, it is expected to hit or come dangerously close to the southeast coast of the united states where emergency evacuations are well under way. joining me now is bonnie schneider. what is the latest for the path of this storm? >> the track hasn't changed, chris, but we have a new position statement. right now the storm is still a
category 3, it's weakened just slightly. the problem is the storm was likely to strengthen to a category 4 before it becomes very close if not making landfall somewhere near the space coast in florida. that's why we have hurricane warnings impacting 9 million americans at this hour. just incredible. the hurricane watch extends all the way along the georgia coast because we are anticipating those strong winds and really dangerous storm surge. the category 4 storm comes perilously close north of melbourne by the time right around 2:00 on friday, but it's really going to ride the coastline whether it makes landfall or not. we're going to see really just dangerous conditions all across the southeast. the track eventually taking it further out to sea but may do a loop. that will be next week. we have to get through the next few days. the dangerous rainfall and flood threat that we're seeing from matthew we're likely to see especially here in south carolina where we could get ten inches of rain. that's one of the reasons we've seen these evacuations happen in the charleston area particularly in the low lying areas.
look for the impact continuing right now in the bahamas with 15 feet of storm surge then as we get closer to the florida coast unfortunately that storm surge will build in and that's going to be a really dangerous threat as well as the winds coming through from savannah all the way to charleston. keep in mind this is a dangerous storm and may be catastrophic for florida. >> bone, thank you for that. nbc meteorologist bonnie schneider. mike pence comes off as the sensible voice of the republican ticket. what that means about the republican party as a whole, next. and make you ill. wow! announcer: but you can keep bacteria from ruining your day with 4imple steps: clean. i'm ready for the rinse cycle! announcer: separate. all: woah! announcer: cook. fire in the hole! announcer: and chill. chipmunk: we chipmunks are notoriously tidy. announcer: check your steps-- the roadchip to food safety starts at foodsafety.gov. chipmunk: whoo! this is awesome!
i am very underleveraged, i have a great company, tremendous income. the reason i say that is not in a bragadocious way. it's because it's about time that this country had somebody running it that has an idea about money. >> i have to tell you, i'm a small town boy from a place not too different from farmville. i grew up with a cornfield in my backward. i dream of representing my home town in d.c., but i honestly never imagined i'd have an opportunity to be governor of the state that i love let alone be sitting at a table like this in this kind of a position. >> with his outside poll rising in personality and utter disinterest in politics donald trump breaks the mold for either party. not often that we get the running mate's views on a beauty queen tweeted out at 3:00 a.m.
behaving like a reasonably competent politician with a decent grasp of policy and political norms. it's a low bar but appears to have made an image of the public. 53% said pence was more likable than tim kaine who took a much more combative approach. but if mike pence representing the kinder, gentler gop that party is as extreme and far right as it's ever been. it's pushing an agenda that's not especially popular with the american public. a flurry of recent controversies have dimmed his hopes for re-election. in past months federal courts have struck down two of pence's key initiatives. in june a court blocked banning abortions based on fetal anomalies that mandated funerary services for aborted fetuses. think about that one for a second. just two days ago an appeals court halted pence's attempt to
bar syrian refugees to be settled in indiana after he took federal money to do just that. then there was the indiana law that would have protected discrimination of business owners by lgbt americans. after sparking a backlash, pence signed a modified version of the bill into law. joining me now,congressman andre carson who is a democrat from indiana and knows congressman mike pence. i wanted to get your reaction. a lot of people think this is the first time they saw an extended mike pence and i will say he has a very kind of avuncular sort of manner about him that's easy to watch. what kind of governor has he been? >> well, he hasn't been that popular. he and i worked together in congress. we went to lunch quite often. personally we have a pretty good relationship, but he's been unpopular in terms of his policies. and i think what you have seen as you referenced the freedom and restoration act.
during that debacle, the height of the debacle, we were hosting -- we were hosting the ncaa tournament, and also it cost the city of indianapolis over $60 million and lost opportunities to host future conventions. i think also one has to remember that governor pence voted against a minimum wage increase in 2007. and so i think that once one did submit deeper. he is likable personally, but i think his policies, he tends to be a bit too dogmatic. so i was pleased to see tim kaine firing back and being aggressive in terms of refuting the governor's claims about mr. trump. >> there was a long extended part of the debate about abortion which is something that has not been foregrounded by the trump campaign. donald trump didn't mention abortion or life once in his rnc speech which i found remarkable. this governor has been, i would say, at the front edge of the
anti-abortion movement across the country. is that a fair characterization? >> well, certainly i think he's been very pronounced in his statements and his actions. mr. pence is committed to his religious identity and principles and i respect that wholly. what we have to be concerned with, as some of my colleagues on the other side love to quote the founding fathers, as complicated as they were, the founding fathers wanted to get away from a theocracy, and i think those of us who are elected officials and i think tim kaine outlined very clearly when he had to deal with an issue regarding the death penalty, as an elective representative, he had to put his religion aside and govern for the people. he recognized that he represents muslims, christians, jewish brothers and sisters, sikhs, hindus, nontheists even and he
has to uphold the united states constitution and state constitution. so i think we have to be cautious of politicians who use their religiosity in a way that's dogmatic and an attempt to politicize and even proselytize to other people which to me is unacceptable. >> congressman andre carson of the great state of indiana. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thing 1, thing 2 ahead. but first a funny thing happened at the trump rally in nevada tonight. i pronounce it nevada and that's how you pronance it. do not pronounce it as nevada, people from nevada hate that. >> meth overdoses are surging in nevada. and you know what i said? you know what i said? i said when i came out re, i said, nobody says it the other way. it has to be nevada. and if you don't say it
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donald trump was retweeting insults about tim kaine looking like a batman villain. the same with russian connections, trump has repeatedly praised putin and the trump campaign chairman resigned after questions arose about his business ties with russia. donald trump tweeted hillary clinton is the one with connections. this morning the clear winning example, the constant interruptions by tim kaine should not have been allowed. mike pence won big. just take a wild guess as to what we're going to play as tonight's thing 2 in just 60 seconds. you were there. you were financially secure - it was glorious. how do you know that? i work at ally - it's my job to know about finances. what else did you see? did i have a speedboat or anything? toss me back in, i'll check. he's finding out if i have a speedboat! nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. negati on the speedboat.
[text message alert rings] [texting keystrokes] this morning donald trump praised his running mate's performance but offered up constructive criticism for the debate's moderator. the constant interruptions by tim kaine should not have been allowed. let that sink in as we go back in time exactly nine days ago. >> there's nothing crazy about not letting our companies bring their money back into their country. >> this is secretary clinton's two minutes. >> a million new jobs, i wrote
about that. >> you called it the gold standard. >> i wrote about that -- >> so it is president obama's fault? is it president obama's fault? >> but in education -- >> you don't even have a plan. >> oh, i do. >> i did not do that. i do not say that. >> there is -- >> you're wrong. >> no, i'm not. >> didn't say it. >> women, men support that. >> not. >> donald supported the invasion of iraq. >> wrong. >> that is absolutely. >> wrong. >> proved over and over again. >> wrong, wrong, wrong. >> and the national have a playing a really. >> would you like to hear. >> why is your judgment. >> wait a minute. there's a person with a temperament that's got a problem. >> secretary clinton. >> woo, okay.
and bans edibles that appeal to children. smart provisions to safeguard our families. learn more about the safeguards at yeson64.org. fox news is no stranger to warranted critique over its racial politics. now the network finds itself facing an actual firestorm of controversy over a segment featuring one of its correspondent. the koerpt was dispatched to new
york's chinatown to ostensibly discuss the 2016 election. but segment that aired had little to do with political discourse. instead it trotted out a host of tire and offensive asian stereotypes half edited together with movie clips. how much trolling, anti-asian racism can you pack into one news segment? more than i ever thought possible. >> am i supposed to bow to say hello? i like these watches. are they hot? >> jcpenney. >> do you like donald trump? >> yes. hillary clinton basically is an extension of obama. >> who are you going to vote for? >> clinton's wife. >> clinton's wife has a name. what is it? >> oh, man. i forget it. >> snap out of it. >> this kind of shtick was played out and racist decades ago. today lawmakers and civil rights orgazations are expressing anger over the segment.
the asian american journalist association is demanding an apology from fox news. quote, it's 2016. we should be far beyond tired, racist stereotypes and targeting an ethnic group for humiliation and objectification on the basis of their race. sadly, fox news proves it has a long way to go in reporting on communities of color in a respectful and fair manner. interestingly enough, fox news has not defended the segment. in fact has not commented on the matter. as for the comment he commented on what i don't think was meant to be a joke, as a political humorist and defended his segment my man on the street interviews are meant to be taken as tongue in cheek and i regret if anyone found offense. in completely and totally unrelated news, asian americans are the fastest growing racial group in the u.s. and could influence key battleground states in the election cycle. the asian american vote in presidential elections has gone from being solidly republican to being solidly democratic.
in fact, new polling shows hillary clinton up 41 points among asian americans. in fact, that same survey found that asian americans are more than twice as likely to identify as democrats than republicans. and maybe, just maybe because they are completely repulsed by a political movement whose most high profile voices think it's hilarious to punk and humiliate their grandmothers. >> trump has been beating up on china. how does that make you feel? >> speak, speak, speak, why don't you, speak. >> boy, it really is impossible to figure out how donald trump came to be the republican nominee, isn't it?
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with a non-insulin option click to activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. nine days since the first presidential debate, the polling has not look good for donald trump. hillary clinton has gained a point and a half while trump has lost a tenth of a point. over that same period of time forecasting sites like fivethirtyeighth have taken her chance of winning at 70%. on its face the 2016 presidential contest has at times seemed unpredictable. that's largely because of the presence of donald trump and partly because hillary clinton is one of the most uniquely polarizing figures in american politics. but when you widen the aperture a bit, the general shape of things doesn't look that much different than 2008 and 2012.
in 2008 it happened after sarah palin, then democrats gained the upper hand and obama pulled out a pretty sizable win. in 2012 it happened in october after which romney was seen as the consensus winner. that race remained pretty close into the final stretch with obama holding a consistent edge. we saw tightening a few weeks ago when clinton had her worst week of polling after she referred to trump supporters as, quote, in a basket of deplorables and fell ill at the 9/11 memorial service. the question now will the basic fundamentals reassert themselves and does that mean democrats are on a glide path to victory? joining me now a former national press secretary for the democratic national committee and former deputy campaign manager for romney 2012 and an msnbc contributor. i remember listening to david
pluth give interviews and he was unflappable. his whole thing was you guys are all freaking out. the fundamentals are the fundamentals. we know how many votes we need in each of these counties and swing states, we know what the composition of the electorate is. don't worry about it. that to me seemed unpersuasive then but maybe looks better now? >> yeah, well, i think he's right. the fundamentals are the fundamentals. the map is the same and the math is the same. it's a much harder road for him to get 270, but more than that donald trump isn't doing what he needs to do. he hasn't invested in data and kate can tell you how much strong data program is going to help on election day, or on gotv or on field. now romney had 17% of the white vote in 2012 and he lost. because of the demographic changes in the country, trump would need 22% --
>> you mean a lead of 17%, above the -- >> yeah, i'm sorry. margin. >> if donald trump was getting 17% of the white vote we'd be looking at a 90-10 kind of election situation. just so people are clear on that. romney won white voters by 17 points. demographic change says that trump would have to win by 22%. >> and he has 13%. so that's where my confidence in the fundamentals of this campaign are really high. and the biggest fundamental of this campaign that hasn't changed is donald trump makes every single day about donald trump, and if it's a referendum on donald trump, he's not going to win. >> hari's point about white voters, there's been so much emphasis on race and donald trump and race and the idea that he can essentially boost his performance along white voters perhaps at the expense of non-white voters by sort of
embracing this line on immigration or the muslim ban. but romney, romney was -- did better than donald trump is currently doing among white voters which is pretty remarkable. >> well, that's the fundamental problem, and you're right, the fundamentals of the race are, as david pluth said, these battleground states are tough places for republicans to win. you know, in spite of some of the mistakes that we made as a campaign in 2012, we did do most things correctly in terms of ground game in terms of get out the vote. and it's just hard. it's hard in most of these states for a republican to win. you don't have any margin for error. and donald trump seems to be going out of his way every single day to alienate exactly the kinds of voters that you need to get you over the threshold. the problem with his whole strategy is these so-called reagan democrats that crossed party lines back in the '80s, they've been voting republican for the last two decades.
so those aren't new voters. those are the same voters that voted for john mccain and george w. bush and mitt romney. we had to have the politics of addition if we want to win that nationally, donald trump is failing that math. >> there's a more sophisticated version of that argument which is the david wasserman missing white voter thesis, which he wrote in 2012. which he points out, and this is factually true, there are millions and millions of white noncollege voters who just don't vote. they're either not registered or they're registered and they don't vote. there was some sense that maybe trump would be the person to bring those voters sitting offline online and there's maybe some evidence in states like wisconsin or ohio where he is sort of overperforming where you would think he'd be that he is but it still doesn't look like it's going to be enough. >> yeah, i think that's right. the other problem is i do
believe he's energizing voters in certain demographics, but the problem is he hasn't been vested in registration efforts or get out the vote efforts, so sort of these fallout voters or the sporadic voters who don't vote every cycle that you're talking about are going to need extra help getting registered and getting to the polls and he hasn't invested in those programs. so those showing up to cast votes for him will be much harder to do that makes the challenge in swing states very difficult. >> just yesterday i was in farmville, virginia, which by the way, absolutely lovely place, longwood university, farmville, could not be a more lovely pristine idyllic college town. talking to obama veterans, my brother was field director for the state in '08 for obama, at the time making a strong play in virginia seemed a real stretch. we're two cycles later and in both virginia and colorado you have states that have seen stretches that are pretty solidly -- i mean, virginia's
remarkably performing for hillary clinton in a way i wouldn't have predicted. that stacks the deck even more. >> what you see in places like virginia and colorado is that for every voter that you were talking about that maybe hasn't been energized to vote in the past that is, you know, working class white voter, that may be coming out for trump, there's one or two suburban white republican women like me who have voted republican their entire life and can't stomach voting for a candidate like donald trump. and so again it's just the politics of basic math. if you're losing a voter or two or every voter you're bringing in, the math just doesn't add up. >> on top of that, there's this sort of ground game question which we're going to sort of get a sense of. hari, very quickly, do you think it's possible for hillary clinton to do something like, say, lose ohio and end up winning, say, north carolina? >> yeah. i do. andhe thing is, she can do that. the fundamental here is that
to publish it. it is not illegal for us to publish it. watch this question of this revelation tonight brings forward. this 1040 report and getting into reporters' hands, there is reasonable to expect that there is more out there and we'll see more of this come up. you know how much the president made and paid in that one year. we only have two pages. there is still a long list of questions that could be answered by the president if you want to release more or anybody else does of this source that gets it in our hands. thanks for being with us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now, it is time for last word of lawrence o' donnel. >> rachel, you know normally at 9:00 p.m. i have some stuff to do to prepare for a 10:00 p.m. live tv show. all that stuff, i made sure it was done at 8:59 p.m. i got to watch every minute tonight. this has been an amazing
out on this program that there is absolutely no proof and never has been proof that any of donald trump's relevant tax returns are being audit. audits begin with a letter from the irs. donald trump has never produced that letter, i have requested that letter from the trump campaign. if he's audited, he would have that letter. it would tell us very much at all. still, even that letter would not prove that donald trump was still being audit. it would only prove that an audit was commenced on a certain date and that audit might or might not still be going on. there is no reason to believe that donald trump is being audited if he will not even release the foreign letter that commences an irs audit. you just heard donald trump says
millions of dollars that he pays in taxes? >> we don't know what this indicates about other years. one of the things david has been able to document over the years is he found when he was looking over trump's businesses, casinos. >> negative income. >> one year and next year, you know you have to watch things like big losses that he takes over a number of year. this year, we havejust been published tonight. you see him carrying over a hundred million dollars of a previous year's loss, that explains a lot about how he's able to minimize tax burden rs over the years. this raises more questions. >> 1995.
>> he does not have to pay jeff fields taxes. >> so, after he gets doing that about paying sales and excess taxes and employment taxes and this illegally public return proves just that. it is totally illegal to steal and publish tax returns. the dishonest media continues to make this their agenda as the president focuses on his which includes tax reforms that'll benefit all america. one of this things that he has been hiding. he knows it is illegal and it is a crime for the irs to review anything of his tax information, including a crime of them to review that he's being audited. he's been able to say that i am being audited and i pays hundreds of millions of dollars. the people who handles those returns at the irs cannot say
anything publicly. the other people are cannot tacs who are worked for trump. david, you got this in your mailbox. i did not hear you stole it. donald trump says you stole this. >> there is nothing illegal about this. i am disappointed of the statement of sean spicer was dishonested in the-- if i go to somebody and say hey, give me your tax returns from your accountant firm and i publish it, that's a different story. i got this over my home. and, suggestion that it is illegal for the public is nonsense. remember to donald trump, he live in a wors in a world where judge screws with him, bad
judge. donald sees himself and talks about the presidency as a dictator. >> calling this a dishonest media in this statement, there is nothing dishonest about this. there is nothing dishonest about this publication or nor would they accuse us. >> we are all journalists and on the look out for somebody trying to sucker us into something. when we got there and david got this and puts this on television. you said to the white house and we sent it to the white house, verify it to us. they did not come back and saying it is not true. they verified the income and the terms of it and the tax paid. they essentially verified the documents and calling us dishonest at the same time. had this been a fake document, nobody would publish it. they give it to us and they pub
iss li lished it and insulted us. that's not at all in keeping of the facts that this is brought to the public. sn >> one thing they did not say is this is dishonest, he pays hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. they did not argue. they adopted it in the statement as much as you are asking for of this being the real thing. >> can we go one other thing on this audit issue. trump has said and i am being audited so i cannot point out on my taxes. david, one of the things you pointed out even if that were true, even if we decided that you could not release tax returns, is it basically impossible that donald trump's tax returns from the 1970s and 1980s and early 2000s, these are
all old and still unaudit? >> there is no statues of limitations. >> trump's lawyers, of the most art full written legal letter that i have read in my life says that he was under audit. >> they never used the word "audit." i think we can assume that 2008 and earlier there is no audit >> well, i would love to see that. that's when he was giving that $95 million for that house. >> when you submit your tax return, you signed of an under personality of jury. i say everything of this return is true of the best of my ability. releasing the audit does not have anything to do with it. you made your collect realization under oath that it is real. >> either we have a president that violates itself and concerns of what we found out or sources of income or obligations to people that bring into questions of his integrity and
loyalty. i am frankly having been covered him are concerned on both of those. we have an absolute contempt for the democratic process in the white house. i don't see any other options here. >> the notion that if we got the rest of this, this return, by the way, could have hundreds of pages. >> 500 or 150 pages easy. >> to backup all the things that are in here. we still may not necessary necessary ly know real sources of income and if not all of it, passes through companies that he owns. that company can pass it to another company that he owns and what shows up in terms of the origin inside here some where, 200 pages down there. it maybe not be the actual. >> we have a much better road map, we may not have a full picture, absolutely >> one of the straightforward lines here that's interesting is
number 7 where he talks about he gets -- he has wages and salary income which is unusual for his case. it is about a million dollars. >> could be hers. his wife is a model. she's on here. she was never at that league of business. >> no. >> that could be -- >> his television income could have been paid that way. even that, most of that is paid throughpersonal cooperatiorpora. >> that's the one that you saw the documents for that. >> the executive producer, he may have gotten both the salary and a profit chair in the program. but, we don't know what that was for. >> can you stay for a little here. eventually, i want to go line by
line. >> that's great. >> i cannot resist this. >> stay with us, we'll be right back with more of this continuing breaking news coverage of the new tax documents revealed tonight on rachel's show, david cay johnston received in his mailbox. that's the news tonight, we'll be right back. ho! ( ♪ ) it's off to work we go! woman: on the gulf coast, new exxonmobil projects are expected to create over 45,000 jobs. and each job created by the energy industry supports two others in the community. altogether, the industry supports over 9 million jobs nationwide. these are jobs that natural gas is helping make happen, all while reducing america's emissions. energy lives here. on a perfect car, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates... maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates
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will you release your tax returns and prove what you are saying? >> you know the only ones that cared about hi tax returns amy reporters. >> no, i won, i became president. >> we are back with rachel maddow and david cay johnston broke stories about the talks of two pages of donald trump's 2005, personal income tax returns filed jointly with his wife melania. we heard him say no one cares about it except rachel maddow
and david cay johnston. >> 74% says he should release his tax returns. 74% of americans. 18% say should not and 8% no opinion. >> 74% wants to see the information that you present tonight and as i said at the break there. he has tweeted saying, thank you, rachel maddow for providing to your trump hating - hating -- followers, how successful that donald trump paid 40 millions in taxes. donald jr. forgets that his father says he paid hundreds of millions in taxes. >> there are very few people and even among trump haters in the world for who he hates about
them -- whether or not there ises hate involvs involved here. and honestly, there is a reason why more than 70% of the country wants to see these tax returns. it is not a belief that you catch donald trump. i think the reason people want to see this because they are worried that their president maybe acting without royalty. we never should have to worry about that, in the 1700s and the 1900s and this century. we never have materials caused to worry about that. this is the one that he won't let us see his finances. that's the problem. if you want to make it about me and hatred and the petty concerns here, go for it. you are nmissing the point. >> you took us on a tour of the
possibilities of divided loyalties in this administrat n administration. the entire story as to why these returns of, this president's returns are the most important in history because we need to know what his financial dependence maybe in russia and elsewhere. >> there are a number of financial ties that he has, business partnerships that raised concerns. i only did some of them, we did not talk about indonesia or south america. >> even if you just -- just look at the focus of of a long new yorker piece recently, it is really easy to absorb. the trump family and the organization, how to partnership there of the family of a notoriously corrupt government official. it made no sense of financial
grounds. the people who they were partnered with have partnered with the iranian revolutionary guards and are profoundly flagrantly corrupted. >> there is a legal under the corrupt act to take income from corrupt sources, to take income to be involved in business partnerships or bribes and etc. there are something bigger of the americ-- we have a problem criminal grounds and national security grounds and in terms of leverage. if either of those things are true, his potential susceptible to blackmail on that subject is mind blowing in terms of what et mean is in our country, alone and in the world. that's why you see this president's tax returns. it is not because of some vanity of how rich he is, it is because of our country and our security.
>> and david, the other thing you can get out of this is there are some public information, rachel has talked a couple of times about this russian. >>. >> we would love to see in tax files how that game was treated. we would love to be able to see, is it the amount that is publicly reported on it. is it some smaller amount and why would it be smaller amount. all of that lives inside these documents. >> the deal and inspected by palm beach had been done by a city councilman. if i can -- >> you over paid the politicians for real estate. >> you are trying to hide money from your wife, you don't want
to over paid. >> donald trump jr. 's tweet. i don't hate donald trump. i find him end lessly fascinating that's why i paid attention to him over 30 years. donald trump has chosen to run for office. if donald trump jr. paid attention in 8th grade civic, he would know that it is our duty to tell the truth about our elected leaders. by his standard, the homicide detective hunts down the killer and hates the killer. >> i don't care who the killer is, all i care is the person that i catch is t"the killer." that's the issue. >> rachel, what are you hoping for in the next chapter of this coverage? >> that's a good question. >> um -- i think that we should focus in part on the fact that this document somehow made its
way to david's. we should know that if the trump administration and the credibility of these is predicated in parts on these documents being unvisiblinvisib anymore. if the president wants the american people to believe him in term of what s of his financ better hope that his tax do you means to back him up on that. this is not the last that's coming out. the more we learn about this, the closer we'll get to the truth about his foreign entanglement explains of what just happened in our election. >> this race is in the trump tax legislation that's coming up. how does he benefit? >> oh, he makes it out like a bandit. we'll pick this up after the break. rachel, thank you very much for joining us tonight and thank you for staying late.
i nu-uh hknew you had a few mors saying about it. >> we are going to be right back with david cay johnston and more details on what we discovered in these summary pages of donald trump's 2005 tax returns. he's the one. (vo)...it was meant to be. and love always keeps you safe. we're fine. (vo) love is why we built a car you can trust. now and for a long time to come. the all-new subaru impreza sedan and five-door. a car you can love no matter what road you're on. the subaru impreza. more than a car, it's a subaru. chooarmy versus army.ion. nation versus nation. the battle has begun. evony: the king's return. download now.
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maddow when he revealed donald trump's federal income tax returns. david cay johnston is still with us. he had those documents delivered to him and he had no idea where it came from, they ended up in his mailbox. he was able to provided them tonight to rachel and us. the dnc issued a statement now in response to what has been revealed tonight on msnbc. the white house's willingness to release some tax information when it suits them proves donald trump's audit excuse is a sham. >> the only reason to not release his returns is to hide what's in them such as financial connection with the russians and
kremlin. to my surprise, the dnc has made an interesting point because i did not think they would. in the white house's statement tonight, they accepted all the numbers that are in the release return pages. that seems to indicate that they are in effect saying this israel. this is really it. why would they would be willing to do that on the rest of these returns or any returns? >> i guess there is nothing to lose at this point. >> but, david, the dnc's point -- they said there are audits. >> there is no proof there is an audit. >> i remember here of the fifth amendment rule and invoke the fifth amendment rights and not testify. when i want and when it is convenience or useful to me, i
will put out a number. they inflated how much he paid in taxes. i had figured this almost certainly of the residue of his dubious tax shelter that we talked about on the show prooeflprooe previously. the statement from the white house referred to $103 million in losses reported on his return as being at least in part because of construction. that's the phrase they usedf construction penses >> what does that tell us? >> i don't understand why it would be there, that was the net loss that's left in the '90s. the income he shows would have been reduced from those things.
>> well, he was making a lot of money and he apparently -- >> his what? >> his net loss. >> it turns out that's not true. we never quite new if he wanted to keep the tax returns or if he was paying taxes or was not. now, we know a little more than that. and david, it is hard for us to know whether this was a good year for donald trump. >> was this the peak or the high point? >> well, where was it? >> we do know that he had a dubious tax shelter that the republicans shut down of 918 million. no more than 103 million of that was left. that implies of the previous ten years where he was writing off of 81.5 million a year that he
had $85.5 million income or each year to write off against it. but, is there anything professor that you can see where donald trump's statement is present tense. i pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. what we are sing he is $38 miion taxes. >> well, if you times it ten years. >> some slacks there, lawrence. >> that's donald -- the words that you get from donald, i think you mean over the years. >> and based on what we are saying here. that's possible that he's paid that much over the year and certainly going forward from there, what do we know, david about his businesses and the successes of his business and going forward of 2005. have the years between now and 2005 been good to him?
>> that we don't know, we know from his own lawsuit to get out of a $40 million loan. the year 2008 was a terrible year for him >> he's heavy on branding. he made most of his big deals in places where they are not commercial transactions that we have in america. >> donald trump does businesses in germany or france with the exception of golf courses. he dos it in places like dubai. >> what does it mean of the integrity of our tax system that the presence of the united states refused of what has be came the presidential's tradition that this is how i am participating and here is how much i make and pay. our tax relies on people's believes and integrity so that
they behave importantly. >> it is very important. nixon is the one that made the rules. >> professional daniel and david cay johnston. thank you for joining us on this important news. >> coming up, this is a fascinating situation. steve bannon, why is he self-estesteve bannon still attacking paul ryan when donald trump is trying to do business with paul ryan? (vo) this is not a video game. this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪
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paul ryan. >> he has released a secret audio of paul ryan back during the campaign after the "access hollywood" video of donald trump bragging of sexually assaults. paul ryan telling his republicans that he would abandon donald trump. lets listen to this. >> his comments are not anywhere in keeping with our party's principles and values. >> there are basically two things that i want to make really clear and as for myself as speaker, i am not going to defend donald trump, not now and not in the fouuture. i am not going thomas hoo be cag with him the next 30 days. >> today paul ryan defended those comments. he did campaign with mike pence. listen to this. >> look, donald and i had our
ups and downs but we merged forward at the end of the campaign. i campaigned with mike pence and since then we have been working hands and gloves together. this is a ancient history and i am surprised it is a story. >> why is breitbart doing this, why is it attacking the trump's healthcare bill? >> it is steve bannon' bannon's breitbart. that's next. ♪ lease a 2017 lincoln mkx for $369 a month. only at your lincoln dealer. does your child need help with digestive balance?
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positive stuff. breitbart is hammering the trump bill. breitbart is still hammering paul ryan and paul ryan is supposed to be donald trump's friend which raises the question what is bannon up to? what does he want? does he still want paul ryan out of there? does he not want this healthcare bill to pass and why would he not want it to pass? >> my theory is one -- i hate these kinds of theories. . >> this is a theory segment tonight. >> breitbart, he's got a grip on tru trump. he's got this twisted weird and intelltual laying out in the world which is bizarre. >> he cannot be the only on one -- this is gross speculations and everything i have been saying about donald trump a year and a half.
>> that's why you are here. >> you get ten years for that. >> josh, we heard fairly reliable that white house staff, trump's campaign staff have attempted to speak to donald trump as the candidate or as the president through the media and they go on shows and tweets and they do different things. bannon has the closest next to media at breitbart where he's empowered to give him a call, you know what, it will be great if you guys would really kill ryan or kill a healthcare bill. >> i am not sure that -- i don't think bannon is controlling breitbart anymore. it is tenuous now. my own sense based on some knowledge is i don't think bannon really does not care about this healthcare bill. now, he may cares about it.
he's a big person in the white house and he wants the white house to succeed. this is not a policy that he cares about terribly one way or another. i think what is happening with breitbart is not so much. i don't think they see this as attacking trump. the people at breitbart and there is always been people who hated paul ryan and a lot of other conservative near trump now that they think that ryan has screwed this up and leading trump into a trap. >> if you are breitbart and you are a trump fan, do you think you are doing trump a fay vovora couple of things. >> this hurts too many people. that i think is true. >> i mean when trump was campaigning. he specifically said, of course, it is all over twitter and reminding him that we'll not cut your medicaid or medicare and
we'll make sure that everybody has health insurance. it is been repeated a zillion times. now, he attaches himself on what he can get through the house. there is a lot of ideal -- he cannot control his caucus because he cannot get anything done. >> we have seen trump's world get on the phone and called up networks and called up the new york times. here is bannon with the cloesse of any media out there. >> that's hard to deny that. >> again, i think that the
people at breitbart, i am not sure they're quite as strategic as you were suggesting. >> these are people who like to blow things up. paul ryan is someone they want to blow it up for a long time. you can see right now, you have defections to the left in the republican senate and defections to the right in the republican house. that does not look good. paul ryan is supposed to be like mr. policy guy and a lot of them seeing it like, you really screw this up, they want to, you know, blow on it. >> can i get josh's opinions on the mercers and what they had to do and where are they and what's going on here? they're big funders. >> i a not sure healthcare is a hugest thing to them either. they are investing and killing. >> all right. >> we are running out of time. josh marshal, howard dean, i cannot extend these.
>> highly scripted. >> we got to break it here. >> lyndsey graham wants to hear from the fbi on exactly what evidence they have of donald trump's accusations of wiretaps and lyndsey graham says he has a way of getting that information. nally. hey ron! they' finally taking down that schwab billboard. oh, not so fast, carl. ♪ oh no. schwab, again? index investing for that low? that's three times less than fidelity... ...and four times less than vanguard. what's next, no minimums? ...no minimums. schwab has lowered the cost of investing again. introducing the lowest cost index funds in the industry with no minimums. i bet they're calling about the schwab news. schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one.
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said today. >> we are having a hearing about russia and you need to come to that hearing because i am going to make an announcement about t the letter and let the fbi know they are about to screw up big time. if they keep on running into the int intel committee and not answer that letter. >> there are reports tonight that senator white house has indicated that fbi director comey may reveal tomorrow the status of any investigations involving donald trump's and russia. >> we'll have more on that next.
we are joined now by the author of the new book, tom nicolls, "the death of expertise." >> one is this demand, reveal to us anything you have on wiretaps from the justice department and the fbi. if they get full disclosures from justice and the fbi on that. will that tell the story for more possibility? >> it is hard to say of what they are looking for because the original charge was so remarkably fantastic that it is like people are filling the content behind here. i think that's part of the
problem so when they are asking for something like that does not exist at this point because of the nature of the president's initial tweet. >> yeah, the tweet saying just discovered president obama was tapping hihones at trump tower. and the "just discovered." it is a saturday morning, he just discovered it. lets assume it was late last night or friday night, who would that be? who could possibly have delivered to him this information that he "just discovered"? >> television? >> breitbart? the internet. you cannot imagine anyone in the president telling him this and no one but the president would know it. >> i find it hard to believe. it would require somebody
knowing that the previous had engaged in illegal activity and holding onto that and letting the president know at 6:30 in the morning, i suspected was something that we don't know. it is amazing of how much time we spent deconstructing -- >> there are reports of others making reference to it that donald trump may have picked that up. that maybe what he was talking about. >> that seems to be the timing of where it came from in the day or two beforehand. >>. >> did you expect there comes a time of investigators mechanism that are operating right now? there will be a day where there will be announcement that donald trump is not telling the truth? >> i don't think that's ever going to come. >> what you are going to get is an announcement that says question found no evidence which is the way investigations always
refuse to share information about the islamic state with the united states. and official telling the post that trump "revealed more information to the russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies." nbc news has not confirmed the reports about the meeting. roughly an hour ago national security adviser h.r. mcmaster emerged from the white house to offer this denial. >> there's nothing that the president takes more seriously than the security of the american people. this story that came out tonight as reported is false. the president and the foreign minister reviewed a range of common threats to our two countries, including threats to civil aviation. at no time -- at no time were intelligence sources or methods discussed and the president did not disclose any military operations that were not already publicly known. two other senior officials who are present, including the secretary of state remember the
meeting the same way and have said that. their on the record accounts should out weigh those of anonymous sources. i was in the room, it didn't happen. >> joining me now, white house correspondent kristin walker, what's your reaction to that denial, the sort of official on the record denial from h.r. mcmaster? >> well, the national security adviser h.r. mcmaster, is effectively parsoned his words, chris. you heard him say that at no time did the president compromise or share classified information about sources or methods, that's not what's in the washington post report. the washington post report deals with classified information that was given by an ally. i can tell you that i was just talking to a top press official here and tried to press this person for clarity, the response i got was that the white house has no further reaction to this report. i can tell you, though, top officials are huddled here behind the scenes in their offices trying to determine what the next steps are. this is, obviously, a bomb shell
no further information this evening. i can tell you we're going to continue to try to get clarification. again, the national security adviser did not directly dispute what is the washington post report, kristin. >> joining me now is congressman, member of the house intelligence committee. congressman, your reaction to the news. >> good evening, chris. you know, the cost of the president's ties to russia cannot be our national security. if this story is true, i'm afraid that's a price we may pay. you know, if true, the president divulged to a foreign adversary, russia not being our friend, potentially classified information that could put at risk american lives. i think the administration should come to congress this week, tell us exactly what was shared because only the russian press was allowed in, not our own national press. also tell us, just what can we expect going forward staas far sharing information with russia. this defies all traditions of
how we treat foreign adversary ris. >> the argumentment i've seen, paul ryan, i believe, senator rich, john mccain, a few others, there's nothing illegal here because the president has invested in his executive authority, unilateral ability to say anything he wants, what's your response to that? >> again, now, chris, if the cost, though, is that american troops or american lives are put at risk, you know, that bad judgment effects all of us, whether we're talking about committing a crime or not. so -- also, chris, this is a moment now for congress to really exercise the check that we have on the presidency. so this week, we'll be calling for a vote to have an independent commission. and the judiciary committee where i serve, we'll be pressing forward to have special counsel appointed to investigate trump's ties to russia. my colleague, elliot ingle and i have introduced regulation, essentially a freeze on anything
that would help russia until the fbi's investigation is complete. we shouldn't act as if we are. >> there's been a lot of commentary on your leagcolleagu across the aisle, folks from the republican party, who don't seem moved by the revelations from the last week, from the yates testimony, to the comey firing, to the president under cutting the own accounts why he did it, admitting that it was tied to the russian investigation. do you've got a sense, privately, from him, their conversation is more concerned about this than they're letting on. do they feel like he's the president and he's the republican and we're going to ride with them. >> eve had a number of conversations in the past week since the firing of james comey about the need to join forces with democrats to have an independent commission. we've got one additional republican, i've showed it last week and came forward. i hope that others have the
urgency to move. because, in our democracy, the integrity of free and fair elections and making sure we understand the ties to russia is counting on it. >> what is your reaction to the fact that we're now looking at the possible mishandling of classified information, carelessness, when that particular critique was, essentially, the core substance of the case against hillary clinton as prosecuted by the current president of the united states. >> that's right. and there seems to be a tweet from donald trump in the past that is contradicted by the current donald trump every time he opens his mouth or every time he acts, these days. you know, as you pointed out, chris, he's the declassifier, if he says something, it's declassified, that doesn't mean that's not bad judgment, it doesn't mean that back in congress we're powerless to hold him accountable. now is the time for republicans
and democrats to really assert our first, you know, our article i, i think, jurisdiction and make sure this president doesn't put any american lives at risk. >> joining me now, nbc contributor, former assistant director, former deputy assistant secretary of state. this is pretty remarkable, if this story bears out and someone who worked in counter intelligence, what's your reaction? >> i'm trying to be objective about this, i simply can't. i mean, there are two rules that i followed and there's trust i had in my case officers, that was my identity and they would do everything to protect me. if you were that terrorist organization and you put two and two together you're going to roll up the people that access and put a bullet in the back of their head. in short, i don't know what we gained by giving this
questions about this. put these points together. this is all happening, the remarkable span of 24 hours, president fires james comey he has a meeting in which he's not in the read out and does not allow american photographers in with the russian official who is sort of also russian media is in, which is how he learned of them and they're talking, apparently, divulging classified information, all this in 24 hours. >> chris, i mean, from that read out and from everything that's been reported, i don't know what the russians gave us. i don't know if anything was obtained. i don't know of any objective, whether it be with syria, but what we do know now is that potentially classified information that could have compromised. when we say sources and methods, let's be clear about this. these are human collectors, these are people designed to infiltrate and spy on that. so we've compromised for what, exactly. i have not heard of anything
that came out of that meeting that was substantive other than grip. the russians walked away with something pretty big here. >> thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> coming up, more on tonight's breaking news and lingering question surrounding president's firing of fbi director james comey, he joins me after this two-minute break. for these pareg around was the only way to get their baby to sleep. so when their windshield got cracked... customer: we can't drive this car. tech: ...they wanted it fixed right. so they scheduled with safelite. our exclusive trueseal technology means a strong, reliable bond, every time. at safelite, we stand behind our work. bye, bye. because the ones you love, sit behind it. (parents whisper jingle) safelite repair, safelite replace. you totanobody's hurt, new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car?
whether he will turn them over to congress if they exist. >> clear last week that the president has nothing further on that. >> does that mean that the president will deny. >> i've said, i'm very clear, the president will have nothing further on that. >> i understand. alexis, i made it clear what the president's issue is on that issue. >> why won't you explain whether or not there are reportings. >> the president has made it clear what the position is. >> i understand that. that's what the president's position is. >> given that you refusing to confirm or deny any of this. >> the president has made it clear what his position is. >> american people are not happy with the president's decision to fire the man investigating his campaign ties to russia. 29% of americans approve, 38% disapprove of the firing. they don't trust congress to investigate the possible trump/russia connection. asked if they would have a,
congress, or b independent commission special prosecutor, just 15% say congress, while 78% support independent commission or special prosecutor, something the white house insist is not necessary. president has repeatedly pointed to testimony national intelligence james clapper argue there's no evidence collusion, he said in his testimony shows no such thing. and added a scathing indictment of the man in the oval office. >> i think in many ways our institutions are under assault, both externally and that's the big news here, russian interference in our election system. and i think, as well, our institutions are under assault internally. >> internally from the president? >> exactly. >> joining me now congressman from texas what was called for the impeachment of the president. congressman, what is your case for impeachment? >> chris if i may, thank you for allowing me on.
i would like to make my point quickly, i heard your story, for someone to make the argument that it wasn't illegal causes me a good deal of concern. it was wrong and at some point we have to focus on the fact that a lot of wrong things are taking place. yes, the president is above the law as it relates to super secret information being revealed, but it was just wrong. now, my case from impeachment is this, first american people have to understand what impeachment is. impeachment does not mean that the president will be removed from office. it is merely the charging of the president in the house of representatives. it's similar to an indictment, not the same but similar to. once these charges are filed against the president, if the president is, in fact, impeached, then it goes to the senate and the senate will have a trial and then the president may be convicted and may be removed from office. but impeachment is all about having the president charged in
the house. it is my belief, and i believe it sincerely, that the president has obstructed justice. the president fired the person who was investigating him and after he fired the person who was investigating him, he revealed that he was considering the reason that he was being investigated when he fired the person. then he goes on to tweet, what might be intimidating words or threatening language, such that all of this combined causes me to conclude that the president should be impeached, constitution allows it. we ought to engage in the process. >> there are a lot of questions about the question of tapes, which become quite germane, particularly in the context of everything that's been happening. whether it's the discussion with comey at dinner, whether it was purportedly said in this meeting. there's a certain attentiveness
to this. they want to see tapes. do you think congress will be able to get its hands on those tapes if they exist? >> well, if he's impeached, we will. and impeachment really is going to depend upon the american people. this is a participate ory democracy. this is a time for american people to weigh in. if the american people will simply say to the representatives and congress that they want impeachment, it can happen. it's not impossible and, yes, the tapes should be brought forth. i believe that there are other means by which we can acquire them, a proper -- pardon me, committee that is investigating can subpoena those tapes, that's the kind of evidence that can be subpoenaed. i think the president might try to exert executive privilege. but i believe there are constitutional scholars on both sides of this and i come down with those who say that sort of evidence should be made
available if a proper investigation is taking place. if there is impeachment taking place, i am absolutely confident that we'll get those tapes. and we need those tapes. we need to know what was said so that we can understand better the level of intimidation that may have been taken place. >> we don't know if the tapes exist as of yet. we do know the white house denies it. >> i think we should assume they exist because the president has given us reason to believe so and until he denies the existence, we should assume that they do. >> that's a fair characterization. thank you for your time. speaking of constitutional scholars, joining me now is opinion piece in the washington post that's titled "trump must be impeached here is why." professor, there are two things that have happened now in the past week, the firing of james comey and the washington post story tonight about the president sharing highly sensitive classified information. defense of the president in both cases are that what he did was
within his powers, within his article power, two powers the president, he can declassify anything he wants and he can fire the fbi director for cause or no cause. what say you to those this is within his authority. you may not like it. but he's acting lawfully. >> the main thing i say with great power comes great responsibility. i think that was aligned from super man or batman. we have a president who exercises his power, not with responsibility, but to cover himself and to make himself more wealthy. take the example of the firing of comey, of course he has the fire to power, i have the power to give $100 to detective investigating me for the police department. but if i say i'll give you that $100 if you stop investigating me or if i even hint that, then
i'm committing some kind of bribery, basically, that's what the president did. even by his own account of what happened at that dinner. whether there are tapes or not, let's face it. the reality is that from the first day that donald trump was president, he was already violating the constitution because he was violating the provisions that say that you cannot have sources of wealth and influence coming from foreign governments. the basic reason they put that in there is because we, as a nation, don't know what the motive of the president is when he does something nice for foreign government. is he doing it just as your prior speaker said to get something good for the american people in return or is he doing it to, basically, on a cya basis, to protect himself and to
make himself more wealthy, the more we learn about the russian connection, the more we need to look into that. now, i agree with congressman green, we need to start investigating, and that is what it means to open an impeachment inquiry in the house. >> it strikes me the sort of deep question here, is whether and how the law applies to the president. it seems to be one of the things that i'm sort of slowly learning. is that impeachment is the remedy. the president can't -- >> it is the remedy. >> the president can't be tried by the -- u.s. attorney for the southern district for violating some part of the federal criminal code in the famous law experiment of shooting a gun on fifth avenue. i mean, impeachment is the remedy and political remedy more than a judicial one and that seems to be the kind of bedrock issue here, right? >> exactly. the whole point is if the president is as casual about the law as he appears to be, if he's as reckless about our national
secrets, if he is so reckless about, basically, offering to keep a guy on the job if only he'll layoff and not look at the truth, then we can't indict the president criminally for bribery oar for witness intimidation, those remedies are unavailable. the only remedy is the political one and the way you get that political one started is for the house of representatives to begin issuing subpoenas and conducting impeachment investigation. and when a lot of my e-mails said, this is too soon, my immediate reaction is, what are you waiting for? with every passing day this guy is a loose cannon threatens the national security. we cannot afford to let this go on, without at least starting the process of digging into the nature of the abu ssive power he
and what the president is gaining. this amazing love affair with our adversary, the russians is explainable with what one of the president's sons said not long ago. we don't need money from american banks, we get all our money from the russians. >> we're going to be talking about that just a little bit in the show. thank you for your time tonight. coming up, good president trump's resistance could have less to collusion and more what might be uncovered about his businesses along the way. new reporting on that ahead. ♪ when it comes to heartburn... trust the brand doctors trust. nexium 24hr is the #1 choice of doctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. for all day and all night protection... banish the burn... with nexium 24hr. dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over.
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republican senator is responding to the tonight. saying the white house needs to get itself under control, quote in here. obviously, they're in a downward spiral right now and they've got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening. if you believe my next guest, the president couldn't get much worse as quickly as they begin to follow trump's money back to russia. that's next, don't go anywhere. e i am. i think is today going to be the day, that we find a cure? i think how much i can do to help change people's lives. that helps me to keep going to cure this. my great great grandfather lived to be 118 years old. i've heard many stories from patients and their physicians about what they are going through. i often told people "oh i'm going to easily live to be 100" and, uh, it looks like i might not make it to retirement age.
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regardless of recommendation i was going to fire comey. i said to myself, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story, it's an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. >> when donald trump admitted that this russia thing is what he was thinking about when he fired fbi director, it fuelled speculation about why he keeps acting like he's covering up something. well, tonight, there's a new contender in the clubhouse. adam davidson joins me now. i like what you wrote. the question you get, if there's nothing there to the possibility of collusion with russia, then what could possibly explain the behavior that seems to be taking every possible action to cover it up.
you present some -- compelling theory, what is it? >> my theory is -- well, the evidence is that -- sometimes from trump's own words is that for a very long time, for decades, but possibly heating up in the last 10, 15 years the trump organization did some fairly shady business with some fairly shady characters around the world. we certainly know from my own reporting and other people's reportings, that he has done business deals with some of the most corrupt folks in some of the most corrupt parts of the world. donald trump himself on cnbc said that the only way to do business around the world was to pay bribes so that would open up -- and and practices act violation, we know the trump organization was incredibly weak on its money laundering trying
to avoid money laundering, casinos, as well as some real estate projects, casinos and real estate being two of the main ways money is laundered around the world. there is a kind of grand theory that there was some deep collusion between trump and putin and trump associates and putin, who knows. we know for sure that this is a company that really tried to hue as close to the line. >> right. >> between legality and ill legality for a long time. >> you did amazing reporting of hotel project where it seemed to be based on your reporting and possibly comlicit in the money laundering scheme. the treasury department is going to hand over documents to the senate committee and what possible threat that could spell for the trump work. >> this to me was possibly the
most important last news last week, even more than the comey firing. they have enforcement network. it's kind of like the fbi of the treasury department. and every single day they collect something called suspicious activity reports from banks, casinos, all sorts of financial institutions all around the country and around the world. and this is part of a global consortium of hundreds of agencies like this. these are just -- they just form a repository, someone called it the google of financial crime, until someone starts investigating. now, five years ago, eight years ago, trump organization was a relatively small player in new york real estate, global real estate, there's no reason to think anyone could have gone looking. once they start searching the reports, they have the potential of really building a global historical map of the trump organization, where money came from, was it money laundering, was it other shady practices.
then you can easily imagine trump staffers, family members being explored for criminal behavior. they have none of the immunities that the president himself has. >> right. you can imagine that the people around president, president himself thinking, even again, bracketing for a second the facts of what happened with you shall sha which we still don't know, but even if there's nothing there, just the thought of someone who is truly independent investigating the many operation of the trump is going to expose us to some serious possible potential liability that i do not want to happen. >> when i walked through what we know now, what is publicly known, what trump himself has admitted to with lawyers, they said, this is enormously risky from a legal standpoint. this is the kind of stuff that businesses just don't do in america. they're a real out liar. so, yes, i don't know for a fact that anyone in the trump organization ever committed a crime. but certainly did a lot of
things of people who do commit crimes do and i think it will keep people busy. a lot of this is in jurisdictions outside of the department of justice, new york, miami, other countries in the world. so we could easily imagine investigators from other jurisdictions investigating. >> thank you. thank you for great reporting, really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> unsettling report on how this president gets his news. including printed out a internet hoax and gave it to the president. thing one, thing two, next. ♪
>> don't wait, particularly, if you're suffering from any symptoms, whether it's nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, seek medical attention immediately. >> the active ingredient is reported to cause severe neuro toxic symptoms in humans if touched, inhaled or eaten. >> the chemical on that pesticide was banned from household use over a decade ago. under the direction of president obama, they were on track to ban agri cultural earlier this year. and we know of one person with a special pen who is pretty happy about that. >> should i give this pen to andrew? i think, maybe, right. [ applause ] >> the trump administration and dangerous chemical that is still in use, that's thing two, in 60 seconds. you too, unnecessary er visits.
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the epa made headlines in march owned the scientific findings and decided not to ban an insecticide that uses a poisonous chemical. among farm workers and young children. a month later the chemical poisoned a bunch of farm workers who reported nausea and vomiting. it sells about 5 million pounds. it donated $1 million to trump's inauguration funds and sent letters asking them to ignore studies that say their products threaten endangered species. we don't know how the trump administration will respond to those letters. their ceo andrew knows just the man to write to if they run into problems. >> should i give this pen to andrew, douw chemical.
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the president's doctor once predicted his patient would be "the healthiest individual elected to presidency." there are several reasons we believe that may not be accurate, not only is the president the oldest one ever, he has a thing for fast food. here he was eating kfc. we learned, the president gets two scoops of ice cream with his chocolate cream pie instead of the single scoop for everyone else. he plays an awful lot of golf making 21 golf course visits thus far, the president is apparently not a big fan of exercise as the washington post reported this weekend, according to recent new yorker, other than golf he considers it misguided arguing a person like a battery is burn with finite amount of energy. trump believed the human body was like a battery with a finite amount of energy which exercise only depleted, so he didn't work
out. the president told "new york times" magazine in 2015, all my friends who work out all the time, they're going in for knee replacements and hip replacements. he stands in front of an audience for an hour that's exercise. now everyone has got their host includ included, but not everyone is the president of the united states. new report sheds light on where the president is getting his information and that's coming up next. i can't wait for her to have that college experience that i had.
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the president of the united states is getting fake flies his own senior white house state of according to a new report out today. political reports that deputy national security advisory mac far inland fox news talking head gave the president a printout of two-time magazine covers one supposedly from the '70s warning of an ice age, according to four white house officials familiar with the matter. the president got lathered up about the hypocrisy. there was one glaring problem. one of thosetime covers was a fake. this image appears to be what mcfarland shared with the president. it's an online hoax that's circulating for years. this was the real cover from 2007. fortunately other staff were able to chase down the truth and intervene before trump tweeted or talked publicly about it.
i'm joined by rick wilson. michael, there's a nexus between story on the and the "washington post" and the president talking russian officials about classified information which is a lack of discipline in this white house, what comes in and goes out. nothing is being controlled. how important is that for a president. >> it's so important. and it starts we chief of staff office. he's the gatekeeper and the one that is the force that will allow something to get to the president's desk or block it. in that ploitco story they talked about rhinoceros telling everybody stop going around me and just giving the president stuff that you want him to have. that is vitally important because when you have a president that takes that kind of information and just absorbs it immediately whether it's fake or real or true or not, and then goes out and retweets it, it
becomes a problem. >> and rick, it strikes me that's why the story in "the washington post" tonight is so plausible because the lack of discipline has been demonstrated publicly time and time again whether it's about things he retweets or things he tweets or says on the australia that aren't true. tas plausible story he's in a conversation and talks about things that are classified because we know that this is not a particularly disciplined operation. >> my friend smielk exactly correct. the chief of staff would be the one person you would rely on in a normal white house to control the flow of information to the president and to make sure the president knew where the lanes were when he's dealing with other people, whether it's a domestic matter or diplomatic matter that he knows what the parameters are. because there's no one in control of the white house except donald trump's egoand no one in control he want his impulses of the moment, the fire
hose of bizarre outlandish stories that donald trump is handed by his pack of lunatic aides and misfit toys, these guys are putting stuff in front of him. trump goes out and says whatever is put in front of him. it's like ron burgundy. he'll read whatever's on the prompter. >> to rick and michael's point, you could put this on the feet of rhinoceros, but the president himself has created a structure where all the normal channels put in place for specific reasons about restricting access to the president, who gets to go in the room, how he's scheduled, it's been thrown out the window by the president. the office doors are open. anyone can come in and stick a memo in. >> i think that's probably the biggest underlying story here is the extent to which the president has totally up ended the normal channels for him to
receive information. remember, the parallel to trump receiving a fake internet hoax, "time" magazine cover is he seems to be paying little attention to the intelligence information he's receiving. the news from tonight and over previous weeks has been incredibly disheartening to members of the community because they feel like he doesn't take their work seriously. like he has this open door oval office policy, but at the same time he's willing to get into trouble with russian officials in a way that will likely make it harder for american intelligence foishlz work with our partners to gather vital intelligence. it's two sides of the same story here, and that's something that's dorng folks in the intel community. >> michael, here's bob corker talking about the downward spiral. thoofrm frto hear that from a
republican. >> obviously they're a in a downward spiral right now and have got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening. the chaos that is being created by the lack of discipline is creating an environment that, i think, makes -- it creates a worrisome environment. >> michael, you can't help but note that carelessness and recklessness were the core of the case of hillary clinton, particularly the e-mails. that there was a lack of compare that was exercised that she should have known better that things before flying around and they didn't know who was going on. look what's happening in this white house. >> actually, there were telltale signs of this on the republican side, and folks just chose to ignore it. all of this how did we get here
moment, particularly in this area, it's phony at this point because you saw the signs, they were there. he told you who he was. to expect a 70 year old man who built an enterprise around media, a cult personality, it's going to change that, it's not going to happen. and here we are >> yeah. >> and rick, that was the case, right? that was case of the folks that were in this sort of never trump camp. and the question here to me, i ask this question of someone last week, and i want to hear it from you. i watch all this happen and i think of the "access hollywood" 48 hours and i remember omega he's toast and obviously he's going to lose and there were republicans who jumped off the train and, frankly, paid the price for it. and i just wonder how much that is in the calculations made by congressional republicans while these stories are coming out. >> bob corker's been a steady supporter of the president.
this is like an iceberg. you're seeing the tip where he's nervous about this. under the waterline, these guys are in a raging panic right now. they recognize that at any moment donald trump can finally snap and run down pennsylvania avenue in a gold speedo and these guys are going to be held responsible for his crazy actions. they're very nervous right now. they fare the criminal liability is ridesing. he puts his head in the noose every single day. it's not a place for people who are very sanguine right now about donald trump. >> is that our sense that the temperature on capitol hill? >> yeah, certainly. skplil throughout the federal agencies within the intel community, within the justice department, you name it, right? i've been getting texts from sources this evening that have a lot of bad words in them. the anxiety level is pretty high.
will they get picked out? today, no answers to that question. sarah huckabee sanders could not or would not answer questions about whether current service members will be removed. >> the president has a lot of support for all americans and certainly wants to protect all americans at all times. the president has expressed concerns since this obama policy came into effect. but he's also voiced that this is a very expensive and disruptive policy, and based on consultation that he's had with his national security team, came to the conclusion that it erodes military readiness and unit cohesion, and made the decision based on that. the decision is based on a military decision. it's not meant to be anything more than that. >> at a white house event an attempt to get clarity from the president later went ignored. people in the military? >> she's very rude.
>> so all we have on this policy change that will profoundly affect thousands of service member's lives are the president's three tweets, which mention the tremendous medical costs and disruption, having transgender service members in the military. what he means by disruption is really anybody's guess. but keeping them honest on the tremendous medical costs, last year a study commissioned by the defense department estimated those costs to be between $2.4 and $8.4 million a year. again, the high estimate is $8.4 million, and as "the washington post" points out, the military spends $41 million a year on viagra. as per sarah huckabee sanders' insistence this was a military decision and nothing more, keeping them honest, if that is true, why were the heads of the four branches of the military caught off guard? beyond that, there's a politics issue and perception issue that can't be ignored. politico reports the sudden transgender ban was in part an
effort to save a house spending bill, a bill in jeopardy because of gop infighting over the issue of the government paying medical costs for transgender troops. and a political reporter quotes an official as saying the ban would force democrats in rust belt states to own the issue, defending transgender service members in the 2018 elections, which the white house believes would hurt those democrats. either motivation amounts to uses transgender as political pawns. and it's no coincidence the president did this when he's getting criticism from conservative supporters for bashing jeff sessions, essentially throwing red meat to conservatives. >> lbg strvegs stat is starting
donald trump very much. you tell me, who's better for gays, tell me, who's better for the gay community and who's better for women than donald trump? believe me. the lbgt community, the gay community, the lesbian community, they are so much in favor of what i've been saying over the last three or four days. as your president, i will do everything in my power to protect our lgbtq citizens. >> as you know, president trump never served in the military. some lawmakers who did have weighed in, including john mccain who said regardless of gender identity any american who wants to and is able to serve should be treated as the patriots they are. earlier, i spoke with senator tammy duckworth, who was shot down in iraq and lost her legs and partial use of her right arm.
senator, cnn is reporting tonight that the service chiefs who represent the four branches of the military were caught off guard by the president's twitter announcement. >> this is very, very typical of this president who blunders forward in areas where he has no expertise. i've said before, he is not fit to be commander in chief and his tweet shows that he has reinforced my opinion of him. >> when the white house says this was purely a military decision, having transgender people serve disrupts military readiness and unit cohesion, do you believe that? >> i do not believe that, anderson. we've had transgender people who have served in tens of thousands have served over the course of our military's history. i don't know why the president is doing this. if anything, what he's doing is disruptive to unit cohesion. >> is this about politics or just appealing to his base? >> i would think this is about appealing to his base, it's not about military readiness. and the facts and figures he
quotes are blatantly wrong. he says it's going to be too expensive when the cost estimate for the health care of transgender people is around in 2015, 2016, $5.6 million. the pentagon spent $41 million on viagra in that same time period. so there are other places that you can cut if you want to talk about cost. >> white house has no answer to the question what's going to happen to transgender members currently serving. does that make sense to you? i would think that would have been something that was figured out before announcing this. >> well, isn't this typical of this administration, anderson? frankly, they move forward, they have not found anything out. they just come one these harmful for our nation.ually are and in this case, harmful for the greatest military on the face of the earth. our military men and women who are willing to die to protect the values deserve far better than this type of policy, especially one that's not been
thought out. >> i want to play for our viewers something the president said just last night which was directed to veterans some remarks he made. >> you carried out your duty with honor, kournlgs acourage a devotion. and with your sacrifice, you earned our freedom. in my administration, we will always protect those who protect us, believe me. we will protect you, because you have protected us. >> is there some irony in that? he said that yesterday. is the president today protecting people who protected us? >> i think that his tweet today made a lie of what he said last night. >> you know, axios spoke to someone in the white house about this decision who said this forces democrats in rust belt states to take ownership of the issue, saying blue collar voters who might not look kindly in opposition to this move from the president, you're from a rust belt state. how do you respond to that? >> when i'm out in my home state of illinois, and i travel with
people or talking about the promises that he has not kept, and they're not talking about this issue. they're talking about the fact that he's allowing the dakota access pipeline to be made with foreign steel, steel made in russia. they're talking about the fact that he spends $3 million a weekend to go to mar-a-lago at a time when we have counties in the southern part of my state that don't have enough sheriff deputies who are on duty. people are not talking about this issue. >> so to the thousands of transgender members serving now in the military, what can you say to them tonight? >> i will be fighting on their behalf. and what i'm going to say to them and to the american people is that when i was bleeding to death in my helicopter after that rpg ripped through cockpit of the aircraft, and an american came to save my life, it didn't matter to me if they were gay, straight, if they were transgender. it object mattnly mattered that
the uniform of the united states military. if you're willing to serve this country in uniform and willing to lay down your life to protect it, you deserve to do that. and so many more americans, including our president, has never worn the uniform. i will stand up and fight for the transgender and all of our military men and women. >> senator, appreciate your time. thank you. joining me now is my panel. dana, is this just about politics, to try to either distract from the russia or jeff sessions or the health care news or feeding red meat to the base? >> it's almost impossible to imagine that it isn't. now, white house sources denied that today, but it does defy any sort of logic that there is any other reason. you know, there are some reporting that -- and some questions about whether it was conservatives in the house who were reaching out to the president to try to get him to do this himself, so that they --
because they felt like they were going to lose the issue legislatively as part of the budget. that is possible. again -- >> what they were focusing on was more medical costs, not a total ban on transgender people. >> that's right. and so that brings me to the next -- to the next point, is that even people who were reluctant to have taxpayer dollars pay for any kind of medical treatment for a transition, they did not expect that the president would just full-on reverse this -- allowing -- or put a ban on transgenders in the military. not anybody on capitol hill. according to barbara starr, the people, despite what the white house is saying, who are in charge of this, who wear the uniform, and so it was a real stunner. never mind the question of how he did it. just random tweets without any interpretation with that, without any explanation, without
any -- never mind a policy paper explaining why. it was absolutely kind of impulse policymaking at its best. >> jeff toobin, legally, the president, can he do this? because a lot of people who were transgender in the military were essentially encouraged last year under the obama policy to come forward and identify themselves and now those who have come forward and identified themselves, i assume under this policy can maybe be fired. >> there certainly will be lawsuits, no doubt about it. the aclu has put out a call for potential plaintiffs who want to bring cases. the problem with challenging this change, and obviously we're going have to see precisely how it's spelled out and applied, is that courts give the military a great deal of deference in terms of how they organize themselves, what they view as militarily necessary deference issues like
unit cohesion. there's a great reluctance of courts to second guess that. that's why most of the don't ask, don't tell challenges failed. it was only when congress and the president, president obama, changed the policy that the policy changed. the courts were not nearly as helpful as they were on same-sex marriage. so i think lawsuits here, they will certainly be filed but likely to be long shots. this is a political and military issue, more than an issue for the courts. >> matt, is this more about politics more than military issues? >> i think -- look, there is an argument, we've had this before with gays in the military about unit cohesion and whether or not we're focused on social engineering versus military readiness. but i don't think that's what this is. it's this was -- seemed to come out of nowhere, and the only rational is political. i think the most -- you listed a
few of the scenarios. the most compelling for me is that you finally now have conservatives, people like breitbart and newt gingrich and others, who are pumping the -- saying lay off of jeff sessions. ann coulter, rush limbaugh. and now donald trump does something that's social conservatives, that cultural warriors would love. seems coincidental to me. >> the white house told the administration was thrilled that this was getting so much coverage from the media. does it distract whether it's russia investigation -- >> i think so. the sad thing is transgender people have become the new boogeyman for social conservatives. now i guess they've lost the battle on gay marriage. now they've moved on to transgender people. you can see in the way this came out that there was no serious argument the transgender people are causing any problems in the military. it's that the cost is too much.
and yet, they spend -- the military spends less than 1% of their budget dealing with health care costs, of their health care budget dealing with health care related to transgender people. they spend five times as much on viagra. so even the argument they're putting forth is false. it's not that costly in terms of their budget, which is massive. >> i want to add to what you said on the politics side of this. that when you have a president who is 35%, basically he's got his base, that is still supporting him. and the fact is, and i was -- i spent a couple of days on capitol hill this week. you see the republican anger about what the president is doing to jeff sessions, who effectively brought donald trump, the conservative base, handed it to him, when he endorsed trump back during the campaign, and so now you have the president trying to reach out and say no, no, don't be mad
about that, please, please. remember, i've got you on this. >> april, to kirsten's point, this was an argument made about allowing african-americans to serve in the armed forces equally in units that weren't segregated. it was made about gays and lesbians. and now it's on transgender people. >> you hit the nail squarely, anderson. in 1948, harry truman abolished segregation in the u.s. military. he abolished it. and the federal government, that was the first piece of the federal government to really start opening up to others. and for this to happen now, many years later, it's sad. this is a community, anderson, i'm sure as you know, there are many people who are very concerned. and i brought up a question today in the white house briefing room, that kind of played off of major garrett's question about health care for transgender military personnel. and there was a concern when
president-elect donald trump was basking in the glory of his win over hillary clinton. many in the transgender community were concerned about aca changing over to trump care, what it would look like with gender reassignment. they said, if we got the top done now, how could we get the bottom done? we don't know what tomorrow brings. so this community has been concerned about this president for a long time. and now this just adds more fuel to the fire, and going back to your original point, it seems like it is red meat for his supporters, but it's also a deflecti deflection, i believe, from the big issue. this is a real issue, but it is deflection. he likes to throw things out there when something is bigger than he wants. >> we're going to continue the conversation next. also, the president publicly criticized his attorney general again in a new tweet that also mentions, you guessed it, hillary clinton. i'm ryan and i quit smoking with chantix.
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s.e.a.l. what is the impact, do you think, for those service members who are transgender who are serving and have been serving honorably? >> well, just like you said, they've been serving honorably. they've been in war zones, back and forth a few times. they're my friends. those are the people serving on our front lines of american freedom and liberty. and now they're going to be told they're going to be rejected and unworthy to serve? that's a huge slap in the face. and they have contracts. so there's going to be a lot of repercussions. you think it's expensive to pay for a few things for these individuals. this is going to get expensive really fast. >> the rest of my interview coming up later. right now, we're back with my panel. christine, is this just about politics, about kind of shoring up the base at a time when he's getting heat from the conservatives? >> i do think about it's about politics, and that is even sadder to me, because what we had this morning was the president of the united states, after he said in the campaign he would stand with the lbgt
community, saying he would stand with the transgender community, to wake up this morning and say transgender americans are unfit to serve. they can't be in the united states military. so it's absolutely politics. it's to distract all of us from russia, to throw red meat to the conservatives. and that makes it even more un-american, to attack americans, to send a message to transgender children, who have one of the highest suicide rates, that they're not worthy. even if they're willing to die for this country, it's repugnant enough. but to do it for cheap votes makes it nothing short of un-american and disgusting. and before jeffrey lloyd raises it, it took barack obama way too long to do this. i was as opposed every year he didn't do this as i was against him and gay marriage. so i don't want to get some trump pivot that we were easier
on trump and clinton, because we were not. and that is only more disrespectful to what he's done to transgender americans today. >> so jeff, we have thousands of transgender men and women who have come forward because they believe the u.s. had changed its policy. is it fair to them, for the president to just wake up today and suddenly it seems like any preamble or public discussion say they're going to be kicked out of the military? >> anderson, it sounds like he was having this discussion with his military advisers. i don't know, but certainly that's the way it sounds to me. >> nobody is say bring that discussion was. because it seemed like the four heads of each branch of the military were caught off guard. >> i don't know. but let me say this, i hate to disappoint my friend christine, but on a scale of -- >> low bar, jeffrey, low bar. >> when you -- wait, when you think of that rally in youngstown last night, the president didn't say this there. if there were a time to maximize
this politically, it was right then and there when all the television cameras, including cnn, were on him and in front of thousands. he could have done that. i honestly don't think this issue registers with most americans. good lord, i saw a poll during the campaign that said abortion didn't even register, and that used to be the hot button issue of all hot button issues. >> you don't believe this has anything to do with politics, that it just happens to come at a time when conservatives are critical of the president for his treatment of jeff sessions, when health care is in doubt, and the russia investigations t? >> i don't think this resonates. while we're on the -- >> you don't think transgender are the easiest people to pick on in this society -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> these are human beings, jeffrey. why does that cease to matter to
trump supporters? these are american human beings. and he just woke up and threw them under the bus. >> while we're on the subject, anderson, i want to make one point. i'm learning from you tonight that the federal government is paying for -- what do i want to say -- >> viagra? >> thank you, thank you. anderson, they have no business doing that either. what is the matter? and to hear people say well, it's not a lot of money. i used to work on the house budget committee staff for a congressman -- >> you're suggesting president trump should ban viagra in the u.s. military? does he have the backbone to ban viagra in the u.s. military? >> i hope he does. i would be with him. >> viagra is $46 million. all of the erectile dysfunction drugs come in at $90 million. that is not my greatest concern,
erectile dysfunction, for a host of reasons. but i understand some of my brothers have challenges and i want to support them to live a full life. >> jeffrey, i'm joking, but i'm not. really, medical coverage is about medical need. and that's a medical need. people serve -- you know what, jeffrey? people serve, they risk their lives. some of them tragically die and they get medical courage and -- >> they don't need viagra. >> who are you to say a man in the military doesn't need via a viagra? i'm not going to say that. >> the american military got along for 200 years without viagra and suddenly this is a necessity? >> what you're arguing is back in the old days people were impotent and it was okay. [ overlapping speakers ] >> you're arguing that viagra is
not something people should be prescribed? >> all i'm saying is pay for it yourself. don't have -- >> so the headline is jeffrey lord tells u.s. military, pay for your own viagra? >> yes. how about that? >> because you have nothing rational to say about the transgender ban. you have put yourself in a more ridiculous, anti military position, because there is no defense, no defense for the -- >> you're making it sound as if viagra is for social use, like going out to disco and popping viagra. there are legitimate reasons people take this. from what i've read. it just seems like don't you argue that our military members should get the best medical care they can get and have the best lives with their families as possible. >> or is the new trump care parcelling out what heroes get?
>> we're in the business in america of providing the basics or people, not in the business of perfecting everybody's sex life. i'm sorry, it couldn't happen any way. >> this is an absurd argument and the real issue here is that donald trump, for no military reason, the department of defense secretary is on vacation. the pentagon admits they were blind sided. he woke up this morning, we don't know why, but if it's because he's a hateful man and hates transgender americans, that's enough. if it's for political reasons, it's even worse. this is a bad day for lgbt americans, but this day will not stand. and if donald trump thinks 147 characterks beat the transgender community, he is, again, wrong and doesn't know what he's stirred up. >> we've got to take a break. >> i'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to serve.
but if the premise is that the government pays for everybody's medical expenses, this is part of the problem. it goes for beyond the military and being transgender. >> the president is saying that they should not be allowed to serve. any way, we got to take a break. breaking news on health care. the senate rejects a full obamacare with no replacement after seven gop rejections in the vote. detail on that in a moment. onald i would always answer hispanic. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm everything. i'm from all nations. i would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark? because i'm everything. and i marked other. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com.
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repeal and delay bill in a 45-55 vote. cnn's ryan nobles joins us from capitol hill. we're expecting senate democrats to offer amendments. now chuck schumer has changed course. what do they plan? >> reporter: make no mistake, this is a pr stunt by democrats. they don't have the votes to pass these amendments, but it's an important part of the process, because it gives them the opportunity to get republicans on the record on a number of different issues related to health care. what we thought was going to happen is when the 20 hours of debate on this bill ends sometime tomorrow, that democrats would begin offering up hundreds of amendments related to health care, forcing republicans to take a vote on some of these issues. but late tonight, senate minority leader chuck schumer announced that's not what democrats are going to do. they're not going to offer any amendments until they see chapter and verse of what republicans plan to offer in this so-called skinny repeal, which would expect to be a
scaled down version of obamacare repeal that they hope can get 50 republican votes and eventually get this bill to a conference committee. so we don't know how this is going to play out tomorrow, and how republicans will handle this situation, but this is certainly a much different course of action than what we expected from democrats. >> the straight repeal, the republicans tried that today of obamacare, that failed. what comes next? >> reporter: what comes next is this final eight hours of debate that we expect sometime tomorrow. and then it's going to be almost a staring contest between republicans and democrats. will democrats begin the amendment process, offering up this variety of amendments that they have at their disposal. or will republicans finally come to the table with their full skinny repeal? at this point, it's just conceptual, anderson. we've not seen any written language connected to this proposal. we just heard what republican aides are planning. we don't even know if it's been written yet, and perhaps we'll find out that tomorrow.
>> ryan nobles, appreciate your reporting. joining me now is my panel. dana, this so-called skinny repeal, does that version have the best chance of passing? >> yes. it doesn't mean it's going to pass. but it has the best chance, and the reason is because it doesn't make significant cuts to medicaid expansion, to effectively giving help to millions and millions of americans who couldn't afford health insurance before. that is the primary reason you see opposition from republican senators like susan collins of maine, lisa murkowski of alaska, and on and on and on. so that is the reason it has the best chance. you know, the problem for the republican leadership is that by getting those senators on board, then you lose some of the conservatives who say wait a minute, this isn't what i signed up for when i promised to repeal obamacare. there's so much of it that would
still be in play. so it's up in the air, but by far the best chance. >> kirsten, the question is what happens when it gets to the house? you have chairman of the house freedom caucus who said it's dead on arrival. >> this is a little bit of a kick the can situation, where they can get something passed and get it to the house to go into conference and go back to the table trying to hash this out again. because the skinny repeal just repeals the employer mandate and the medical device tax. so it's not really what conservatives want. that said, it will send -- if it did pass in the house, it will send the insurance market into complete turmoil, because obamacare doesn't work without the mandate. >> jason, does it seem to you like republicans are just kicking the can down the road with these votes? is there a clear endgame here? >> i think it's worse, anderson. the team player as a republican in me would probably say we need
to pass this skinny repeal, which first of all, i don't speak skinny very well. but we have to go and pass something so that we can go to conference and come together and come up with some bill that we can pass both houses. that's not what is going on here. we're getting bamboozled. we have a president who will sign a repeal of obamacare. we have a president who will sign a repeal and replace of obamacare. and so the fact that we can't get a bill through the senate after all these senators ran for election, saying that they would repeal and replace obamacare is a disgrace. first they told us we had to have the house. so we give republicans the house. then we said the senate, so we give them the senate. now we have the presidency. this is a big shell game by the big government republicans who are scared to go and reduce the size of government. look, the exchange and the way the subsidies, the way we're paying for health care in the medicaid expansion, we can't afford it. it's distorting the markets and
ruining our health care system. and the fact that republicans in the senate won't deal with this now is just absolutely embarrassing. >> there's a lot of democrats who will agree with what jason is saying. the republicans have been running on this for years and years and voted on this multiple times. >> and a lot of republicans agree with jason. having said that, and i think jason would admit this, if the skinny obamacare repeal and replace bill would actually pass the senate and somehow miraculously get through the house, you bet president trump would sign it, right, jason? >> well, again, let's assume they can get something through, because the conservatives in the house are saying it's a nonstarter on that end. but again, what we have to have here is something that's fundamentally going to go and change the way that obamacare is ruining the health care system. we have to do something about the medicaid expansion. we have to change the way the subsidies and get something if we're going to help lower income americans, get something to where it's more of a tax credit. we can't go into that much
detail right now. but the system, as it's currently set up, just fundamentally won't work. premiums are going up. >> none of these republican plans address that. they just don't. >> i think there are some of these plans that do help. i think the ted cruz amendment is probably the best step in the right direction, where that will lower some premiums and lower some of the costs. i think that's the best step. but look, this whole shell game that we're seeing right now, as someone who works so hard to elect some of these problems, it's frustrating. the president launches another attack on jeff sessions. how president trump views loyalty, next. um... i'm babysitting. that'll be $50 bucks. you said $30. yeah, well it was $30 before my fees, like the pizza-ordering fee and the dog-sitting fee... and the rummage through your closet fee. are those my heels? yeah! yeah, we're the same size...in shoes. with t-mobile taxes and fees are already included, so you get four lines of unlimited for just $40 bucks each.
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you know, some of these people have like a 10% loyalty, meaning if they sneeze in the wrong direction, they're gone. >> well, many now believe the president now wants sessions gone. joining me now is michael dantonio, and jack pitney, who wrote an article called "trump the disloyalist." you write in your piece that sessions should not be surprised by trump's behavior toward him. >> trump is a guy who has betrayed contractors, customers, vendors, and wives. his wire careentire career is a train of betrayals. so why sessions should think he's different and special is a mystery. he should have been more aware of trump's history. >> michael, you wrote the book on trump. what does loyalty mean to trump? >> not very much. it falls in one direction, toward him. >> you have to be loyal to him. >> absolutely. and everything is transactional.
so if you done one thing wrong, if you don't demonstrate a reversal the next day, you're out. if i were to channel the president, what i would say about him is that he's a back stabber. he's a fair weather friend. he's a coward. this is a guy who won't stand by the people he's made a commitment to and who have made a commitment to him. but this is nothing new about him. as jack said, he wasn't loyal to two lives. he's on his third. i think he's doing pretty well there. but he's stiffed thousands of bond holders who invested in trump casinos. all these contractors, the people who signed up for trump university. one after another. i mean, political parties, he was in the reform party, then a republican, a democrat, to you a republican again. where is the loyalty here? i think it all runs in one direction. >> jack, is this just politics? when push comes to shove, is anyone in politics loyal? suspect everything based on
self-interest or furthering a political agenda? >> in politics there is a sense of loyalty. you stick with a party, you stick with commitments. and in the place where is i've worked in albany and washington, d.c., the highest praise you can give to a politician is that that person is a straight shooter. yeah, sometimes people fall off the loyalty wagon, but in general, you just don't see the kind of behavior, the kind of massive dishonesty and disloyalty we see with donald trump. >> it is fascinating, michael, in an interview with the wall street journal just yesterday or two days ago, president trump questioned sessions saying like it wasn't so much a loyal thing, he basically saw the size of my crowd in alabama and got on board because he just wanted to be amongst me. >> one other thing, the president is not loyalty is the facts. sessions won 97% of the vote the last time he ran. he didn't need any coat tails and he didn't look at these crowds and say, i want some of
that. >> he had a secure seat and he had seniority as a senator. >> he had more of what donald trump wanted than what donald trump could give to him. so the president very eagerly accepted sessions' endorsement, paraded him around the south, really around the whole country, and i would argue that a lot of people voted for president trump because of the endorsement of jeff sessions. so now we see this playing out in congress with the former senator. and now the attorney general getting lots of support. >> michael, the irony is, jeff sessions not only early on was the first senator to support trump, but is more ideal logically connected to the president. the people that the president has around him now are campaign officials for other candidates. >> well, donald trump doesn't care about trumpism. he only cares about donald trump. the principles, the idealology,
the policies, none of that matters. all that matters is his narrow, direct self-interests. that's what we're seeing with his treatment of jeff session, which from a policy standpoint doesn't make sense at all. >> thank you both. still to come, she was a navy s.e.a.l. for more than 20 years and left the military and came out as transgender. i'll speak to kristen beck about today's ban, next. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites. over the course of 9 days sthe walks 26.2 miles,. that's a marathon. because he chooses to walk whenever he can. and he does it with support from dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. so he even has the energy
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activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. we have no details from the white house about how the ban announced on twitter today will affect thousands of transgender military members who are currently serving. but we can speak to people who have served honorably and heroically. kristin beck was a member of the navy elite s.e.a.l. team. she later came out as transgender. we did a documentary about her journey in 2014. here is a quick clip. >> it's got to be so sad to think that for 20 years you have to -- that you have this incredible bond with these people you're fighting with. >> yes. >> and you want it to be the closest bond imaginable. and yet you can't really let yourself be yourself.
>> it's definitely tough. and when you say, it's strength and honor, that's one of the ones we do, when we shake hands, we say "strength and honor." that's still what i gave true. i gave true brotherhood. i did my best. 150% all the time. and i gave strength and honor. and my full brotherhood to every military person i ever worked with. >> i spoke with kristin beck just before airtime tonight. >> kristin, the white house press secretary was repeatedly asked what will happen to those transgender members currently serving, will they be forced out, and she couldn't answer that question. i know you have transgender friends currently serving. what are they saying? do they know what's going to happen? >> i don't think anyone knows what's going to happen. you keep seeing all the heads of staff, every staffer, every branch in the military are totally blindsided. this is unusual for such a major policy shift. >> what is the impact, do you
think, for those service members who are transgender, who are serving and have been serving honorably? >> just like you've said just then, they've been serving honorably. they've been in war zones, back and forth a few times, a few of them. they're my friends. those people serving on the front lines of american freedom and liberty. now they're going to be told they're going to be rejected and unworthy to serve? it's a huge slap in the face. and the ha they have contracts. there's going to be a lot of repercussions. you think it's expensive to pay for a few things for those individuals? this will get real expensive, real fast. >> the president tweeted, the military cannot be burdened with the costs. what do you think taking transgender military members of out of the service look like? you talk about disruption, to use the president's word. >> that's the word, disruption. one military friend in the army, she speaks farsi, arabic and
five other languages. she's been in the war zone a couple of times, back and forth. she's immensely capable. how will you replace that person? i can give you dozens of accounts of people were that kind of experience. people like me serving in the military, you can't replace a senior chief, you can't replace all that experience. you're talking about huge disruptions. >> the president, according to the white house press secretary, that it erodes military cohesion. that's an argument that's been made, frankly, for, you know, whether or not to have african-americans serving in the military, and whether to have openly gay people serving in the military, gay and lesbian people. does it affect unit cohesion? >> you brought up the exact points. this is the 1950s, going back to segregation, you're going to the don't ask,l era.
diversity makes us stronger. diversity is what we need. it's same thing. these are excuses. this is some kind of -- something's going on. it has nothing to do with unit cohesion, readiness, or their capability. it's nothing to do with that. >> undoubtedly there are members of the military who are not comfortable having transgendered individuals serving with them. when you were serving, you weren't open to your fellow s.e.a.l.s. what do you say to those who say, well, look, if some members of the military are upset about it, then it is going to affect cohesion? >> the thing they're overlooking is what really is at that lowest level, at the company or platoon level? once you start serving with folks, if you sit around me for a couple of hours, let's go out on the ranch, we'll do some shooting, you'll find i'm the same person. they're basing their data,
they're basing their emotions on misinformation. they're basing their emotions on a fantasy of a person in a pink boa. that's one picture of transgender. but transgender is also me. transgender is this picture. don't base all your data on one thing. i'm transgender. i'm capable to serve. i can serve right now. i'll do it with great capabilities that would surprise you. they're giving up a lot. it's a catastrophe. >> kristin beck, i appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you, anderson. up next tonight, the latest from the white house on the transgender ban, and more. so we sent that sample off to ancestry. my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned.
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firing from first round to last? do we know that? >> that's the thing we don't know. what we know, it's an hour and 12 minutes from the time the first shots are phoned in to the police, police get the first call that shots are fired until the door is breached on the hotel room. what we don't know is was he still shooting at the time he broke into the room. police have said as soon as they got on the 32nd floor they knew immediately that's where the shots were coming from. the elevator doors opened and they know immediately that's where the shots are coming from. we don't know why that is, whether it's that they smelled gun powder or they can hear shots being fired. so we can't -- from that time line we simply can't tell when the last shots were fired, whether it was right up until the time that they blew the door off and he shot himself. >> brief note to our viewers, we've just stretched across the top of the 2:00 p.m. hour here on the east coast, obviously covering this national tragedy in las vegas, nevada, 58 dead,
29th floor and worked their way up until they finally figured out it was the 32nd floor, which they said they got from a variety of things, going into the floors, hearing phone calls from people in the hotel calling the police and calling the hotel saying i think somebody is firing shots. they sort of triangulate from those various phone calls. there had been some reports that they were keying off smoke detectors going off in the room, which is plausible from all of this kind of smoke that would come out of these weapons, firing all of these rounds, it's plausible the smoke detectors went off. whether that had a role or not, we don't know but putting all that together, that's how they get to his room and blow in the door. first of all, they have to realize that the shots are coming from the mandalay bay hotel and that takes a while just by itself. >> pete, i said last question i lied. i lot of people come to las vegas to as a friend of mine
transactions report d over $10,000, one of them 30,000. what we don't know, are these losses? are these wins? are these simply money in and out? we don't know but we do know that he was a gambling some high stakes here in just the last few weeks and they say that the pace of his gambling had picked up within just the past few weeks. >> that is a lot of money for anybody to be moving around. pete williams, thank you so much forgiving us the benefit of your reporting so far today. pete williams in our washington bureau. we note on his usual beat this first monday in october. nbc's steve patterson is in las vegas with the latest. steve, you've been listening presumably to the conversation you told us the city was coming to life a little bit more obviously behind you. >> yeah, look, i don't want to say that normalcy is completely returned here but obviously, the city is taking steps to reopen
traffic. you can see it flowing freely behind me. up until the point obviously that you get to that scene where police are investigating, but also, you're starting to see some of this return, you're starting to see pedestrian foot traffic now moving more freely. people smiling and seemingly back on the strip. it's probably the most normal i've seen the las vegas strip in the last 13 hours, which has been something of an oddity. i mean, we were here last night when it was dead silent, when there was nobody around but police and fire and emts in this area that i'm standing, this scene was locked down. you could see victims on stretchers. you could see the red and blue lights shining in the distance to try to prevent people, push people back. you could see police in full riot gear with long guns going from hotel to hotel to hotel to casino to casino. if you go into those casinos you heard the slot machines buzzing and see people gaming. sob yusly a lot of this has
opened up. people seemingly back to normal life here. if you look a little closer, the biggest tourist attraction that we've seen probably in the last two to three hours are these flags the american flags, you can't see them, they are above our live shot up here. there are two of them at half staff. i think i've seen more people take pictures of these flags than i did even yesterday taking picture of the las vegas strip sign. some signs of normalcy coming back, again the most normal i've probably seen the strip in the last 13 hours, but also again there is that tinge of a somber note as people sort of walk through here back on the strip. brian? >> thanks so much for that. that's an important part of reporting this story, what the city feels like and sounds like. it's never not vibrant or not teaming, you can play the slots at 4:00 in the morning if that's what you like doing. it sounds like tonight one night falls again in vegas, it will
feel a little bit closer to the old place. i want to share with our viewers a shot of the next event we're waiting for. and that would be the white house briefing room. sara huckabee sanders will be briefing the press. we presume there will be a lot about the kind of multiple crises this white house is dealing with. don't forget before we heard the news from las vegas, the outrage was chugging along towards the president for what he had said about puerto rican politicians, the nation of puerto rico, puerto ricans themselves, their needing external help because of this storm that is decimated the island of puerto rico, the fact that they needed help from their fellow americans in the continental u.s., our white house correspondent kristen welker standing by live in the briefing room.
kristen, what else can we expect today? >> well, brian, i can tell you this day started with a real focus on puerto rico and then just to set the scene and mood here at the white house, it has been a series of meetings and briefings throughout the day as they have tried to monitor and react to and respond to the tragedy that is unfolding in las vegas. of course, we did hear from president trump very restrained message today, one of unity, calling what happened an act of pure evil. he also spoke about it in the oval office while meeting with the prime minister of thailand. take a listen to what he had to say. apparently we don't have that sound. but he will be visiting puerto rico on wednesday and then -- puerto rico tomorrow i should say and then las vegas on wednesday and will be meeting with first responders as well as victims there.
we're just getting a two-minute warning. i anticipate that sarah huckabee sanders will get a number of questions about what happens next. does the president think there needs to be some type of stiffer gun laws, something that he has traditionally been opposed to. has his thinking on that changed or shifted in any way, shape or form. that will be those who say it is too soon to talk about legislation and next steps but then on the other hand you have mark kelly, of course, husband to gabby giffords shot and wounded gravely when he was in congress and made an incredible recovery, who said today in a press conference, don't let anyone tell you that today is not the day to talk about politics as it relates to gun laws. we anticipate sarah sabd sanders will get asked about all of this and president and first lady will hold a moment of silence later on this hour. >> kristen welker in the briefing room. the two-minute warning is in effect so we will not take our
eyes off of that podium but i do have clint watts, formerly the fbi with us here. clint, we know there's this move afoot to possibly allow silencers on weapons in our country. as someone who's been around guns an ammo so mauch of your adult life, what would that do from your point of view in law enforcement? >> i don't understand what civilian purpose a silencer would be used for. when we talk about the need for weapons and everyone's second amendment rights we're talking about hunting or sports shooting -- >> or personal protection. >> or personal protection. a silencer is an offensive capability. the whole reason you have a silencer is to try to hide the fact that you're shooting the weapon. i can conceive of no legitimate reason why you would need that functionality. and that goes to fully automatic weapons as well. part of the reasons we've had barriers on fully automatic weapons was exactly what we saw last night. >> let's listen to the white
house briefing. >> our thoughts and prayers today are with the victims and survivors in las vegas and with the people of puerto rico and the u.s. virgin islands, where massive storm recovery efforts are ongoing. the president will be flying to puerto rico tomorrow to view the devastation and assure the people there we're with them 100% today and for the long haul. puerto ricans have shown incredible resilience and we're committed to helping them rebuild their lives. last night thousands of citizens endured what the president has rightly called an act of pure evil in las vegas. the president has orlded the flags to half staff and to further honest those lost in the attack, we'll hold a moment of 15 silence at 2:45 eastern time. the president will visit vegas on wednesday to grieve with friends and family of the victims to offer his support to those recovering from their wounds and to thank the courageous first responders. in the coming days this attack
will directly impact communities across the country. one man 29-year-old sunny melton traveled from tennessee to vegas with his wife heather. when the bullets gain raining down sonny shielded her from danger, giving up his life to save hers. married just over a year. others risked their lives to meet people they never met. mike from philadelphia laid on students to protect them from gunfire. they are 20, i'm 53 and lived a good life. lindsey pageant and her fiance fled for cover during the attack and immediately returned to the scene with the pickup truck to help transport the wounded to nearby hospitals. gail davis attending the concert with her husband owes her life to a brave police officer who instinctively served as a human shield protecting her from harm. sadly multiple police officers both on do you think and and off-duty were among those killed
and injured. what they did for each other says far more about who we are as americans than a killer ever could. the gospel of john reminds us there's no greater love than to lay down one's life for a friend. the memory of those who displayed the ultimate expression of love in the midst of an act of hate will never fade. their examples will serve as an enternl reminder that the american spirit will not and cannot be broken. in the days ahead we'll grieve as a nation and honor the memory of those lost as a nation and come together one nation under god and indif visible and with that, i'll take your questions. major. >> can you tell us how the president first learned about it and your engagement with him, his own personal reaction today? said in the oval he might spend more than a day in vegas, was i referring to a couple of days there? >> we're final liesing the details of the travel that will take place. we know for sure he'll be there on wednesday and beyond that
we'll keep you guys posted. those arrangements are finalizeds in terms of activity this morning, the president was briefed early this morning by general kelly and has been updated regularly and constantly throughout the day and will continue to as new information is provided by law enforcement officials. >> have you had a chance to talk about how he dealt with this? >> i've seen him today and i think he like most of america is saddened and certainly his heart and compassion goes out to those that were affected. >> jeff? >> sarah, many times when these horrible massacres occur, it leads to questions about gun control. has this particular massacre made the president think anything more about pursuing tighter gun laws such as background checks to prevent the massacres like this from happening again? >> look, this is an unspeakable tragedy. today is a day for consoling the
survivors and mourning those we lost. our thoughts and prayers are with all of those individuals. this is -- there's a time and place for a political debate but now is the time to unite as a country. there's currently an open and ongoing law enforcement investigation, motive is jyet t be determined and it would be premature to discuss policy when we don't know all of the facts of what took place last night. >> jeff? >> do you believe that -- does the president believe that this is a moment that this is a time when this should not be a political discussion, it should be a policy discussion? does he believe he could bring something new to the gun debate that has been i guess a locked in politics for so many years? >> today is more like i said, a day of reflection, day of mourning. a day of gratefulness for those
that were seraved and i think there will be time for that policy discussion to take place but that's not the place we're in at this moment. but certainly i think there's a time for that to happen. >> before he was elected president in some 15 or 16 years ago, he did have a different view on guns than he had during the campaign. does he believe this is something that he could lead a bipartisan effort on at some point? at what point would that be appropriate? >> i think that's something that we can talk about in the coming days and see what that looks like moving forward. i think one of the things that we don't want to do is try to create laws or stop these type of things from happening. if you look to chicago where you had over 4,000 victims of unrelated crimes. they have the strictest gun laws in the country, that certainly hasn't helped there. i think we have to -- when the time comes for those conversations to take place, i think we need to look at things
that may actually have that real impact. matthew? >> thanks, sarah. on puerto rico, can you tell us about the president's aims for his visit tomorrow and do you expect any tension given some of his comments over the weekend? >> we have several stops that we'll put out later this afternoon in terms of the specifics of that trip. we are going to be spending a significant time there in puerto rico meeting both with first responders as well as storm survivors and we'll put out the details later today. >> some of the comments like the folks wanted everything done for them, do you expect that to come up? >> i expect the focus to be on the recovery efforts which we're fully committed to, the top priority for the federal government is certainly to protect the lives and safety of those affected areas and provide life sustaining services as we
work together to rebuild their lives. that's going to be the focus, not just in the conversations tomorrow but certainly the focus we've had since this began. >> let me pick up on that. who exactly wants everything done? you said they. >> i haven't talked to him specifically about a defined who they might be. the federal government is doing everything they can within our powers and capabilities to first focus on life sustaining and life saving measures as well as on the rebuilding process. we've got over 12,000 federal staff on the ground, 64 hospitals out of 67 are partially or fully operational. 14 are now back on the electrical grid. 45% of customers in puerto rico have access to drinking water. eight commercial airports are operational, 65% of gas stations are open. all of these things are things that we're continuing to push and move forward and will be part of that effort. >> if i may, does the president
believe that what happened amounts to an act of domestic terrorism? >> this is an ongoing investigation and it would be premature to weigh in on something like that before we have any more facts and we'll leave that to local law enforcement to work with also the federal law enforcement to make those recommendations. >> the president was sharply critical of the mayor of san juan. other than the comments on friday morning, which she criticized elaine duke for saying this was a good news story in terms of dhs getting supplies to areas needed. what was she was doing that prompted such criticism by the president? >> right now our focus is to bring the mayor into the coordination efforts. in administration as well as other members on the ground have reached out to her. we hope she will join with us in those efforts and be part of things. she's been invited to participate in the events
tomorrow as well and we hope those conversations will happen. and we can all work together to move forward. >> tom price reimbursed the government yet for his flights and if not, is there a specific deadline when you expect him to do so by? >> i'm not sure on the time frame for that or whether or not it's already taken place. but we'll certainly keep you posted on that. >> jordan? >> given what the president said about secretary of state tillerson's outreach to north korea over the weekend, does the president still have confidence in him as secretary of state? >> he does, yes. >> spoken to him since he sechbt out the tweets? i believe so, i'll have to verify. >> thanks, it's a very sad day in the country as you mention at the top as the president said in his remarks, when he goes out to las vegas, he's going to meet with first responders and in addition to that families of the victims that were impacted by this. what's the message to each of those groups when he goes out there? >> look, i think it's very
simple to say that his goal is simply to be there, to show the support of people from around the country and to stand united and not only this act of evil but against all acts of evil. and that was clear in the president's remarks today and something that you'll see from his visit on wednesday. >> following up on the tweets about the weekend, the president tweeted save your energy rex, we'll do what has to be done. is it the stated position you're trying to get back to talks or have you given up? >> we've been clear that now is not the time to talk. the only conversations that have taken place or that would, would be on bringing back americans that have been detained like that. those are the type of conversations this administration was willing to have beyond that there will be no conversations with north korea at this time.
there are three americans still detained in north korea. >> lines of communication with pyongyang, that's what you're primarily using it for -- >> that would be the only reason for us to have conversations with them at this time. >> hallie. >> does the president believe diplomacy is not worth pursuing in north korea? >> there's a difference between talking and putting diplomatic pressure. we still strongly support putting diplomatic pressure on north korea which we're continuing to do but now is not the time to simply have conversations with north korea. we've encouraged all of our allies and partners to do more and we're going to continue to keep all opgs on the table when it comes to that. >> today as well, you talked about how now is not the time to get into a gun control debate or policy. after the orlando shooting the president that day was out on twitter talking about policy and talking about his travel ban. when for example chris murphy says it's time for congress to get off its ass and do
something -- >> i agree that congress should get up and do something, i don't think it's specific to that but i think congress had months of doing very little and we would like to see legs lags come through. >> what would the president like to see congress do? again, we haven't had the moment to have a deep dive on the policy part of that. we've been focused on on the fact we had a severe tragedy in our country. and this is a day of mourning, a time of bringing our country together and that's been the focus this morning. >> when at that day, he was talking about the travel ban saying he didn't want congratulations essentially -- >> there's a difference between being a candidate and being the president. >> thanks, sarah. i want to ask you before last night's massacre, a bill was advancing through the house that would among other things make it easier for people to buy silencers. hillary clinton tweeted about it this morning, imagine the depths in vegas, the shooter had a
silencer which the nra wants to make easier to get. does the white house have a position on this particular piece of legislation? >> again, i haven't spoken with the president about that specific issue but i don't think that that is something that would have changed, again, i think before we start trying to talk about the what took place last night we need more facts and right now we're not at that point. it's very easy for mrs. clinton to criticize and to come out but i think we need to remember the only person with blood on their hands is that of the shooter. and this isn't a time for us to go after individuals or organizations. i think we can have those policy conversations but today is not that day. >>ny policy descriptions the president considers out of bounds on the policy debate that will happen in the coming weeks. can you articulate what the position on gun control is? >> the president has been clear, he's a strong supporter of the
second amendment and i don't have anything further at this point. i'll take one more question. fred? >> couple questions, one head of the -- i want to ask about the bill, the mccain lee act which would give an exemption, would the administration consider even a permanent repeal of the jones act or at least an exemption from it for puerto rico at some point? >> i don't think that's something that's necessary at this time. if we deemed it was, we could have that discussion then but certainly something we don't feel like is necessary today. so i wouldn't imagine that would be something needed. >> okay. also, on the nomination of -- there have been some impacts among senators, some in the media on her religious beliefs. does the white house have some
concerns about that? >> we certainly support religious freedom and would ask that congress also support that as well. as you all know, we've got a moment of silence taking place on the south lawn here momentarily and so with that i'll close and just again i think we ask collectively that everyone across the country keep the people both in las vegas and in puerto rico and u.s. virgin islands in our prayers. thanks. >> all right the conclusion of the white house briefing and because we live in a politicized world and because it's going to come up again and again and again and because you heard it was already in the twitter feed this morning of hillary clinton, manny gomez is here with us, retired special agent for the fbi, retired nypd sergeant. before we go back to the white house briefing room, manny, i'd like to ask you, can you make
the case for silencers for all? what does that get us? >> it gets us more assassinations and say higher crime rate. silencers were made for one purpose and one purpose alone, to nefariously kill people with little evidence and little to know sound, noise. and that is specifically what law enforcement uses to identify targeted neutralize somebody who is shooting at a crowd or individual like we had last night. and equipment such as shot spotter that we use throughout new york city needs that noise to be able to identify and target where shots come from. >> do they make an effective silencer for long barrel ar-15 bush master style weapon? >> absolutely. and sportsmen, hunters would make an argument they need that so that their target, whether it's a deer, et cetera, don't hear the shot. but numerous other sportsmen
have shot from muskets when the founding fathers started up to now successfully killed game animals without the use of a silencer. so where does this logical progression? are we going to legalize grenades next because sportsmen need the averages to be on their side more? it seems to me we're heading in the wrong direction. the conversation should be what to do about the assault weapons that are killing our population at an alarming rate. saint bernardino, orlando and last night in vegas, literally at this point we have hundreds assassinated by the assault weapons. >> let's go back in the white house briefing room. kristen welker was there. what stood out to you? >> reporter: sarah huckabee sanders got a number of questions about the very topic you and i were talking about heading into this briefing, which is what are the next steps? does the president think that
there needs to be stiffer gun legislation? you heard her make the argument which wasn't all together surprising that today is not the day to talk about politics. she was asked repeatedly though if perhaps this has prompted a shift in his thinking. she did reaffirm his commitment to second amendment rights. effectively signaling that there hasn't been a dramatic shift here inside the white house for the president at this point in time. but of course this is something that he will continue to get pressed on. this is a very short briefing as that moment of silence is about to get under way shortly. there were a few other headlines, including on puerto rico. sarah essentially trying to downplay any tensions between president trump and the mayor of san juan over the weekend after he was tweeting criticizing her and one other point i'll make not on the topic of the tragedy in vegas but is significant, she was asked if he still has confidence in his secretary of state. after he tweeted over the
weekend questioning some of the his tactics as it relates to north korea. she said yes, he still has confidence in rex tillerson. a number of headlines but the shooting in vegas dominating this briefing and sarah huckabee sanders not providing clarity what next steps might look like for this president but we'll continue to press him on that. that's for sure. >> one more thing because people are coming into and out of our coverage. just explain we're going to take it live. explain the moment of silence, what we know about it. >> this is going to be the president, and the first lady, i believe it's going to be on the south lawn. and this is something that we frankly haven't seen here at the white house, a moment of silence that it is called an impromptu way as we are about to witness. i think this is the president, first family's way of underscoring that this is a nation that is in mourning today. and i think that was really highlighted at the top of this briefing, brian. you haurd sarah sanders start to
talk about the shooting in las vegas and she became visibly emotional. this is something that touched so many people in vegas and all across the country and right here at the white house as well as i was talking about earlier in the hour, there have been a series of meetings as the president has been briefed and they tried to respond to and monitor this situation and here now we are seeing the very real emotional i mpact of the traged unfolding in vegas here in the west wing. >> we certainly are. thank you very much, kristen welker. we have a guest to bring in on the phone, joe yankis was shooting video and photos back stage for a blog he maintains when the shooting started. the blog is hello country usa on twitter. joe, i've heard the sound described, someone last night said it sounded like the playing cards, little kids used to put in bicycle spokes if you don't know what the sound is.
others said it was like the sporadic ticking of a taser and people always lose those first few moments wondering just what is that over the sound of the concert. did you go through a similar moment? >> i did. i heard it at first and jason aldean had done a concert, the same concert two years previous and did a lot of pyrotechnics and when we first heard it, we thought -- myself, i said jason aldean doing a pyrotechnic thing and one of the teches wanted to go see it. she went out of the tents and i went to follow her out and within a few moments, as soon as i got out of the tent, she returned around and come running at me, she said run. as i heard it, it kept coming in long bursts and i've shot semiautomatic weapons before and i could tell this was more highly sophisticated gunfire.
and the bursts were -- it seemed like they were more than 30 rounds at a shot. and i immediately turned around and we ran through the tent and lifted up the back and tried to escape through the back. i grabbed my wife's hand and we just tried to find a way out of the maze in the back. and we ran into one fence and there was a bunch of people. we knocked that fence down. the gunfire had stopped so we all kind of took a moment and within a few moments later it started up again. the shots probably -- god, went for more than ten minutes and it was like, you know, is this ever going to end? i was trying to listen for police enforcement to respond of some sort but it was just happening so quickly. so we got to the back and it just -- we weren't sure how this was going down. i wasn't show if people were on the ground. a group had decided to do a siege, we didn't know if people
were coming from behind the stage. we grabbed a -- there was a tractor-trailer and i shoved my wife underneath and we're underneath behind the tires for a while just to try and grasp our surroundings and what was happening. again, the rapid fire started again and it was long and it just seemed to not end. so we're trying to decide what pursuit we were going to take. there's a couple of people in the back, pinned between the tractor-trailer and 9-foot fence. i have a brace on my leg, had knee surgery, a guy was telling everyone -- there were a couple of young kids helping out. it was really awesome to see. and just put my wife over the 9 foot fence and got tangled up and fell to the back side. i tried to make an attempt with the brace on my leg, couldn't make it and i noticed there were boxes stacked along the fence. i pulled over there and that was a chance to get higher up to
toss myself over. as soon as we got over, we just tried to clear out what the best direction to go, we just walked away. we went through -- the artist had tour buses and tractor-trailers and we kind of s serpentined in between there and there was a tanker from the airport. there was a whole bunch of dumpsters, industrial dumpsters and we ran behind that. there was a whole bunch of people there hiding behind it. and we were just trying to figure out what the next move was. we weren't certain what was going to go down so we tried to say what are we going to do if something happens? i told my wife that we would jump in the dumpster if it comes around our area. we waited and we started to pursue more. i wasn't -- i didn't feel safe about getting back to the strip. we were staying at the wynn so we're trying to make our way and that was way down the other end
of the boulevard. and i gijust wanted to stay off the strip but we stayed parallel and kept walking and just kept reminding my wife, it something goes down, run over there and hit the ground. >> this is battlefield stuff you are describing. >> it was. it was horrifying. it just seemed to go on forever and just the sound of that, was just like, you knew it was something serious. so it was just trying to make our way back without something else happening. on the way back, we came across police squads and cruisers that were loading people that have been shot into the back of their cruisers and taking off. and for quite the perimeter around, there was policemen with assault riffles and shotguns trying to secure the area as best they could. >> had you ever been around death and dying in any atmosphere before? >> i'm a retired firefighter from connecticut and we've been
through something like that, but nothing -- anything like this other than just living cloegs by to what had happened at sandy hook. >> joe, what a story you tell. it must be so hard to believe that was last night in your life. and i'm so happy you're able to talk to us and so happy that both of you found a path to safety and eventually, daylight when sun came up on las vegas, not everyone was so lucky. joe yankus joining us by phone. bill young is with us, las vegas, metropolitan police, his daughter was at the concert. two sons are police officer and one went to the concert, helped his daughter get out and tell us, sir, your family story from last night.
>> i've been in this business 40 plus years, emergency response, now in the security business, private sector. b but i got a call from my daughter maybe 10:10 and knew she was at this concert, route 91 and i think it was her third night there and she was all excited about seeing jason aldean because her and i had gone to a hockey game, first -- second hockey game in vegas for our new team and saw a poster. dad, i'm going to be there that night. and so i knew exactly when she called me that something was wrong. and she was screaming -- when i answered the phone, dad, dad, dad, somebody is shooting at us, i don't know where it's coming from. people are falling dead around us. page and her college roommate, grew up with her in vegas, page's brother and his
girlfriend and i asked her if she could get cover. she said i don't know. just all of you run as fast as you can get and get away from that, a moving target is much harder to hit. she did. i said stay on the phone with me. she did her best to do that and called me back a couple of times, lost each other. he ran in the house, got my -- got dressed and outside in the garage and got a gun and my old police badge and headed offer in michely shelby mustang to find and help her. that's what i do. probably the dumbest thing to do but that's what you think of when you've been doing this that long. i got her on the phone again and she said they crossed the street and were in an aircraft hangar that was open. they found a big door to the hanger and hiding under a desk. they couldn't see anybody from where they were at. you stay there until i get there or until metro police officer gets there. and she did. two hours later, one of my sons,
brian, who is a metro police officer was able to get over there to her and in that area. i was stopped by the highway patrol closed the freeway and brian was able to get them and get them to safety and transportation and i'm so thankful to god and metropolitan police department and all of the first responders because being on the other end of this, it's a different feeling. >> after all of the years you've spent on the job, can you believe your department is now the location of actually -- i'm going to stop myself. sheriff, if you can wait a little bit with us, we're going live to the white house south lawn. the trumps and pennsylvances arg out to observe this moment of silence, members of the white house staff on both sides.
>> 2:41 p.m., after pausing a moment of silence, a lone marine sounding chime from the balcony above them. president and first lady vice president mrs. pence go back inside. the white house and now they will probably file inside the members of the white house staff. we were talking with bill young. former sheriff of the las vegas metropolitan police department. sheriff, what i was asking was after all of your years on the job, can you believe that we've had apparently the largest mass murder by gun in the his tri of our country on your old beat in the department you served and loved? >> it's hard for me to even
fathom it and wrap my brain around it. i've always believed that anything is possible anywhere and -- we've got a little situation here, brian. we've got a guy that's going to try to start a fight with somebody here. >> okay. >> i'm going to bet on the sheriff in this situation but it is probably best that we not televise what's going on on that street corner. manny gomez, you can understand after being son the job so many years, what that must feel like, a guy who knows every inch of the city of las vegas, willing to die for it and last night he's got two kids involved in it. what a feeling p helplessness? >> terrible. i have a 21-year-old son myself. i could only imagine what the
former sheriff must have felt terrified. at the same time it tells us the problem that we're having and it should be addressed, the conversation really needs to be addressed as to what we're going to do. this is not the last one. this is one of several and perhaps one of many that will continue to happen if government doesn't do anything about this. >> i think he spoke for all of us when he said i've got my badge and my gun and got in my mustang and drove downtown fast. i think if most of us had a badge and gun, we would have done the same thing. >> 100%, i know i would have, especially knowing my child was there. it's parts of a bigger problem that we need to seriously discuss and being in government as i've been for many years, i saw it inside of government and see it outside of government now, it's a prevalent problem that is not going to stop unless it's addressed at its root.
we'll be here talking about this time and time again, brian. it's sad and unfortunate but it's not being addressed the way it should be. >> think of the fact that all you needed to do a few minutes ago was reel off the names of places in our country. places we're all familiar with and in some cases, people who didn't grow up knowing sandy hook and connecticut, they do now because of a mass murder. >> absolutely. >> and at sandy hook there were children, the other places there were young people. now young people all ages and from all types and places in the u.s. came to gather at this concert to celebrate and instead of a celebration, it was a death sentence unfortunately for many of them. >> aurora, colorado, san bernard de bernardino, california.
>> columbine. >> i should pass along, not verified or confirmed by nbc news, piece of journalism here in the wall street journal, they are reporting investigators found 18 to 20 firearms, some fully ought matic in the room of the 32nd floor of the mandalay bay resort and casino. the room registered to 64-year-old stephen paddock. the weapons included ar-15 style and ak-47 style rifles as well as a large cache of ammunition. the official said this would only match what most of our expert guests have been saying all day today, that if the weapons themselves did not come into the world as full automatic, and manny, correct me, you can take -- what i believe to be the largest best selling gun in the united
states, the ar-15 body, you can take that and retrofit that into something fully automatic that would sound and perform like what we heard on that tape, correct? >> absolutely, it's commercial. you can buy it in the internet and you can buy the kits that convert it and that goe from semiautomatic to fully automaoac easily and cheaply to be quite honest with you. this is something combined with the legality of these assault rifles and the potential of turning them from deadly to deadliest, these are weapons that were made for the military. and they were made for one purpose only, to kill human beings. >> isn't the popularity of the a rif r-15, the basic chassis supports so many modifications. >> it accepts a lot of modifications and the velocity in which one could fire a round, it's much quicker than anything out there than any hunting rifle
and certainly any shotgun and those are the number of rounds per second or per minute leaves the shooter with the potential to whether it's target shooting or hunting or in this case a massachuset mass massacre to get a lot more targets in its bull's-eye than a more conventional firearm. >> i'm told it's now safe to go back to the street corner where former las vegas pd sheriff bill young was so nice to join us and that the altercation has since passed. i was worried i was going to have to come out there. >> i could have used your help. i just stood here in place. i knew that was the best choice especially while you're on camera, to not get involved. >> thank you for your cool professionalism. and it's good to be back with you. how do you think las vegas comes back from this? that's question number one.
and question number two, bill, as a law enforcement professional and i imagine we have people on the job throughout the country watching this today who are just sad and interested in how this kind ever thing could happen, what do you think the lessons learned will be, the after action report from this is going to be after we get through this first wave of sadness for all of the souls who have been lost. >> brian, that's -- you know, that's a very wide ranging question or two. i want to start by first saying this. i was involved in this as soon as i heard about it from my daughter. from the onset. i was responding there at the same time that the first responders in this community were responding and all i can do is tell you, the las vegas metropolitan police department and all of the first responders i encountered especially nevada highway patrol and clark county fire department performed above
and beyond my wild eflt dreams, the quick response clearly in my mind saved many lives. i know there's other first responder i'm leaving out there but those in particular, my sa. my department, i couldn't tell you how proud i am of them today because i know what they did and i saw and heard story after story and from the sheriff who's done a fantastic job, all the way down to the men and women who work in the communication center and every other aspect of our agency, it couldn't be any better. and yet, we still have this result. so that's kind of the answer to this question. something like this can happen in any community, at any time, given the gun law that is we have in the united states, which are the second amendment, which i'm a strong supporter of. we have an individual that i don't know if he has any history of mental illness or what his criminal history is. obviously had ten semiautomatic and automatic rifles at his
disposal. i don't know the history of those rifles. i own 25, 30 guns, i've hunted and fished all my life in this state. i support it. but at the same time, i think that we all have to be cognizant of the fact this world has changed the last 20, 25 years, the fascination with guns on some people's parts that don't have business having a gun because of the results we saw here today. i wish i had a better answer. i will tell you this, that i would suggest to every agency, and i'm sure most agree with this, my colleagues, prepare, prepare, prepare and train like it's the real thing. that's one thing we did do here in las vegas starting, you know, with all the sheriffs that i worked for before me, myself, and have continued then fine tuned and gotten better at it. i was around for just about the the onset of 9/11.
i was elected in november of 2002. we had a lot of threats here towards las vegas, all kinds of terrorism threats. and i thought, first thing in my mind last night responding there this was paris, france, something of that nature and it turned out to be a different type of terrorism than what i had imagined. i always thought that las vegas because of our iconic value, american's place to play, the sheer numbers of hotels, you know, 10 of the 12 largest hotels in the world right there on the strip, large volume of people -- you know, i hesitate to say that, but i'm surprised we waited this long before we had a mass shooting here of some sort. but we've got to live life, all of us in america, and move forward. i grew up here bb this is my town. we're resilient. we've survived a lot in this town. this may be the worse thing we have to come back from, but we
survived 9/11, it had devastating effects to our economy, survived a tremendous recession, which doesn't compare to this. but all i want to express is to all the people in the united states that are sending us here in las vegas good wishes and we thank you and keep all the men and women that were killed and injured in their prayers. the police officers here are fantastic, i have two boys on the job and they were both out there last night in uniform. very proud of them. i have another son that's a clark county fire paramedic, who was off during that. and my daughter, all she can tell you is thank god and thank you police officers. please, people in america, remember what cops really are. they're not how they're being portrayed by some. they're some of the best human beings we have in the country, and they proved it again last night. all you have to do is look at
the video and hear the stories from the people there. >> former sheriff, bill young, las vegas metropolitan police department. there's no reason to add a word to what you just said and said beautifully. thank you so much, god bless. we'll be thinking of all of you in the days and weeks to come. our great thanks to former sheriff young. john chot is with us. he's a former nave steeale, director of operations at the win resorts. he's with us from las vegas. wynn would be one of the modern day kingpins of las vegas. so, sir, how would you secure against this if this guy, now dead, had checked into your hotel? had checked into the wynn and had brought a window punch with him and knocked at a window at
the wynn and fired down on a crowd from there. my theory is there's some things in life that separates he's just a guy one second and in the next second he's a lethal killer. it's like the bridge going across the livriver teems in london, it was a car until it took a sharp turn and became a killing machine. >> yes, sir. obviously in a perfect world we wouldn't have these conversations this afternoon. i think that your whole point is really kind of a key aspect for everybody to understand, which is that in the great scheme of things you can't really protect against everything that occurs out there. if you do, from a theoretical component, i suppose you could put a 50 foot concrete dome over every venue that exists or hotel there is, and strip search
everyone coming into or out of the property. the problem is there's not a reasonableness associated with that. so for this event that took place, i think las vegas has done an exceptional job, particularly in the post 9/11 environment of taking extraordinary steps to enhance what their security offerings are that are outside of the standard realm and the issues that are the day-to-day glor fied securing the cash cage, the proliferation of fake ids or narcotics or whatever else to trying to put into place mitigation measures for these type of events. i can only speak with a certain degree of specificity about the wynn resorts. what mr. wynn foresaw, particularly in light of the san bernardino shootings and the
time, money and personnel they put into developing what i would largely consider to be probably one of the most substantial, at least in the hospitality realm, aspects that exist. this is not a plug for the wynn, i have no association with them anymore. >> i understand. >> but to your original question, these are the two issues that you have to contend with. it's the wolf in the sheep's clothing, so to speak. the likelihood of somebody dressed in black tactical gear strolling up to one of the main valet entrances and using that as their engagement point is probably very low and is reasonably very low. even if that were the case, the properties up and down the strip and in the greater las vegas area all have very robust mitigating measures to address those types of threats.
i think the concern does become and materialize to where your standard vehicle becomes a weapons of choice. what do you do when a guest controls their narrative on how they look normal, checking in like any guest does, but what can you carry in your bag into the hotel -- >> my other question is, would gun cases -- even if this guy came in with multiple gun cases you have a big local gun show the 7th and 8th of october, all of our guests have said, multiple gun cases upon check in, this is nevada, this is las vegas, would not get special mention. >> i can -- again, i can only speak to exactly what takes place at wynn resorts. not only -- because all -- all hotels on the strip are private property. so they can make a -- they can draw out what their particular requirement is, if they will
allow private firearms on the property. if not, i know specifically at the wynn they are not allowed. for the shows that come into town, eventual off duty law enforcement officers that might be here for convention or a leash you areally weekend are still required to check in their firearms. the processes put in place at that property for people who don't necessarily want to check it in, there are substantial ways to observe when somebody is carrying a firearm and then they take the measures to have them check in or remove themselves from property. >> john, thank you so much for joining us. that was an interesting last point. you have to wonder how many people do take it seriously, you have to wonder as we retrace the steps of this now dead gunman, how much imagery is there of him, this stay in this hotel,
this parking garage there, that's at the hard rock hotel and casino and, of course, these firefighters and some of the first responders trying to get through it in biloxi, mississippi there. that's one of the hardest hit areas. the flooding took the first floor of the casino under water. the biloxi fire department took this video as the firefighters were wading through it. >> minutes ago, nate was downgraded to a tropical storm. so far is knocked out power to nearly 73,000 customers in alabama, florida, and mississippi. we are tracking the impact of the storm with a team of meteorologists here in atlanta and reporter in mississippi and alabama. let's begin with meteorologist ivan cabrera, the newest information from the national hurricane center, what are you learning about the strength of the storm? >> the good news is no longer tracking a hurricane here. it is now a tropical storm with winds of 70 miles an hour, though as i'll show you in the current wind gusts, not finding anywhere near that strength.
wind field, we're pretty much done. the winds at their peak, 7 0 miles an hour, there is that wind speed at keisler air force base and louisiana, highest wind gust, 89 miles an hour. cat 2 would be 96. the water did come in. gulf of mexico did take over in biloxi for quite some time. along i-90, pictures of some of the damage there. look at ocean springs, upwards of 10 feet. 6 feet at pascagoula, mississippi. so this was a cat 1. imagine if this was a cat 2 or cat 3, the potential was there for that to happen yesterday as the gulf waters are very warm. what was against this system was the forward speed. it was marching and booking through the gulf. thankfully that allowed this to stay a category 1. still the threat of a tornado or two in the next few hours here. the bands tend to have spin in them. so could spawn a quick tornado, and that is why we still have tornado watch from pensacola to panama city.
that threat will continue over the next several hours. at this point, we'll start transitioning from a wind event to a rain event that will encompass the eastern u.s., upwards of 2 -- half a foot of rainfall in the next couple of days with flood watches in effect with that. >> all right. >> ivan, thank you very much. we'll check back with you throughout the show. talked about what happened in mississippi, how it is lingering a little bit. flooding, there are power outages and he mentioned martin. >> martin savidge is standing by in biloxi. tell us what you're seeing. how have conditions changed over the last hour. >> good morning to you. it is improved, no doubt about it. believe it or not, this was actually the worst hurricane since hurricane katrina at least in this part of mississippi. i should straighten that out. and it wasn't as bad as many had feared. there were times they were talking about this could be a category 2 coming ashore. in the end, it was a category 1.
still, you were rocking and rolling as we were, because it was not just the way the water was falling out of the sky and the wind was blowing, but also the way that the gulf of mexico decided to take up residency on the shoreline here, especially on u.s. highway 90. that is one of the great concerns they have had because they knew that that highway, such a thorough fare, east and west, it would cut off a major route. there was also flooding in the casinos here in biloxi. three in particular. the hard rock, the imperial, and i'm going to lose my thought on the other one. but the golden nugget, thanks very much. the good news is that it looks like the water got primarily into the parking garages and into the public spaces, so that's the entryway areas, the ones closer to the ground. however, we're being told there was no flooding in the gaming area. so that's good there as well. there was one dynamic rescue in harrison county. a family in a car that turned in some water, they used a high
profile truck, got everybody out, they're okay. and on top of it, there was a fire they had to deal with. but, again, no injuries here and back side of the storm is already starting to push away. so it is going to improve, daylight will tell us the real story here. there is a lot of debris on it. so they'll have to send trucks down there first before the public starts driving on it. and we'll see what the morning brings. >> you hold up so well through all of this. thank you so much. we're glad everybody is okay. alabama is feeling nate now. ivan was talking about mobile. and wind and the rain they're getting. guess who's there? >> we have ed lavandera there in mobile. what are things look like where you are? >> reporter: good morning, guys. that wind and rain is already started dying down as the center or what used to be the eye of the storm has passed to the west of where we are. a little north now.
so we're starting to see the back side of the storm and that will bring the rain and windfall significantly down. really the story we have seen throughout the night here is the story of the storm surge. we're on the edge of mobile bay. behind me you can see the water still pushing north in the storm surge is really going to be something to -- as the daylight takes over here in the next couple of hours, to be able to get a better sense of just how significant the damage is from our vantage point over here, storm surge has pushed water out over the roadways here, just to the -- just to the west of where we are, so that would be on the eastern edge of downtown mobile. so hard to get a sense right now, mobility is a little limited into what we can see and just how widespread that will be. i don't think there is any question that there is water on roadways, and low lying areas, the question is just how many homes have taken on water, how
many businesses have taken on water. a lot of that is assessment can't take place until the brunt of the storm has fully passed and then daylight kicks in, and that will give teams the ability to assess that situation and just to see how widespread the flooding situation and where the storm surge pushed water into, once we get that daylight, we'll be able to better assess that. >> we heard from martin in biloxi, that there was just one rescue, no reports of injuries. what are you hearing from officials there in mobile? >> reporter: haven't heard anything like that. we saw, you know, very few people out and about. so, you know, in the mobile area, we haven't heard any of these major reports. you never know in some of the outlying areas if there were people who trapped in homes, maybe wanted to try to get away in some kind of way. haven't heard anything major
like that over the overnight hours. >> ed lavandera for us in mobile, alabama. we'll learn more about the impact as the sun comes up and officials get out to fan out across some of the communities there. thank you so much, ed. we are going to talk more about the coverage of now tropical storm nate and the impact all morning long. let's turn to the president. president trump talked about -- talked about a lot with reporters last evening, including his relationship with the secretary of state, rex tillerson and his chief of staff, general john kelly. and what he plans to do about north korea. we'll talk about that. also, the las vegas gunman left behind key calculations pertaining to his massacre. what these numbers authorities now believe mean as new details emerge.
and the scandal with harvey weinstein, talked about growing rift, at least the reports of that growing rift between himself and the secretary of state rex tillerson. that was after the secretary reportedly called him a moron and talked about the future of white house chief of staff general john kelly. >> john kelly is one of the best people i've ever worked with. he's doing an incredible job. and he told me for the last two months he loves it more than anything he's ever done. he's a military man. but he loves doing this, which is chief of staff, more than anything he's ever done. he's doing a great job. he will be here in my opinion for the entire seven remaining years. no, no, he likes secretary tillerson. so do i. we have a very good relationship. we disagree on a couple of things. sometimes i'd like him to be a
little bit tougher, but other than that, we have a very good relationship. >> the president reiterated his wish to strike a temporary deal with democrat opens obamacare that he says is exploding. he wouldn't clarify his calm before the storm comment and what that meant, nor would he explain his tweets regarding north korea. when he said only one thing will work. although he criticized harvey weinstein with the sexual allegation claims against him, he dismissed his own remarks about women leaked in an "access hollywood" audio recording last year as locker room talk. look at this, this new ap university of chicago poll, finds the president, we don't have it on the screen yet, but president trump's approval rating is now at 32%. back to the breaking news this morning, what is now tropical storm nate over the gulf coast, causing some serious flooding you see here. >> martin savidge is watching
from the storm from biloxi, mississippi, where some of the pictures were taken. how are you doing, martin? >> reporter: we're doing better. there was a storm surge and that was a big fear they had in this area. anywhere from maybe 7 to 11 feet, whether it lived up to that, still remains to be seen. but no question the water just came surging right out of the gulf of mexico. in fact, there was a time we were set up across the street to show you some images there, and it just got too bad. we'll be back with more in a minute. also, key information revealed on a note the las vegas gunman left behind. you see that in the circle there. what his handwritten calculations tell investigators about his plot to massacre innocent people. kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin
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so good to have you on board with us this morning, early. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. breaking news this hour, nate is now a tropical storm. it made landfall twice overnight. first in louisiana, then mississippi, each time a category 1 hurricane. this is the first hurricane to make landfall in mississippi since hurricane katrina. that was in 2005. >> this storm is bringing strong winds and heavy rains. look at this. there is some major flooding in some areas. this was taken inside the golden nugget casino in biloxi, mississippi, there. i would not want to be stuck in that. kudos who got a shot of that. more than 72,000 customers do not have power, not just in alabama, but the florida panhandle, mississippi as well. as storms expected to weaken as it continues to move further
inland, which it is doing right now. >> we're seeing more of a problem that nate is causing since landfall. watch this. >> you can see the surge is halfway up inside this entrance. there is some escalators straight ahead. there is the surge halfway out the door. storm surge is no joke. this is what they warned about. >> i'm only about maybe six or seven steps in, all the way up to my ankles. goes further back, the road dips further back. >> really, really rolling now. and an indication clearly that nate if not right on shore, right up against shore here in biloxi. >> there was martin savidge. this is the bay of biloxi. you see the big gap, that's the eye of the hurricane. that's the center of the storm. >> the highway 90 will be -- will have to be cleaned before we can access it again. we have a lot of power outages
around here. but that's to be expected, i guess. >> we have been watching this storm, it is one of the quickest moving storms on record, maybe the fastest. by the time the sun breaks, it ought to be pretty day. >> ivan cabrera tracking tropical storm nate. ivan, we are seeing some images of what happened as it hit. how much life does this thing have in it and what will it do as it moves up the coast? >> i think it will be a big rain event for the southeast and this is going all the way up to boston. it will be rain, not so much wind. fascinating storm and we do have it official now, this is the fastest moving forward speed storm in the gulf of mexico. and anywhere from 25 to 30 miles an hour, the reason for that, we had an area of low pressure, and push this thing very quickly and thankfully quickly to the north because if it had meandered here for a while, conditions were
favorable for this to intensify, which is what we were worried about. at this point, on the other side now, this is a tropical storm, so the wind field has diminished. still gusty winds, especially the outer bands here that continue to move to montgomery. i'll switch over to the radar, see that more clearly and the center of the storm was the eye there. the band is moving through montgomery and look at the feeder bands continuing to pull that tropical moisture up. that's why the storm on the eastern half is certainly healthier now than on the western side with the dry air getting pulled in on the other side. still a problem with the tornado watch, still going to watch this closely. get the feeder bands rolling in, a lot of difference in wind speeds at the surface and up above as it begins to fuel that friction, rotating thunderstorms, we'll watch for that, numerous tornado warnings. we'll see if any of these materialize, touch ground. that threat remains here.
and now we'll transition into a big rain event, the front continues to push to the north and the east, and we'll take a look at some -- the official track for the national hurricane center as this thing is going to really get going to the north and east and move rather quickly as well as it gains wind speed here. the track at this point is basically where the rain is going to be. you don't have to worry about winds at this point. i don't think that will be an issue for you. we'll have gusty winds, but the accumulating rainfall here which by the way, a lot of folks in the southeast are saying bring it on. we had some significant issues, lack of rainfall, we had rain since the last storm system. some areas, beneficial, i think that will also allow for this, not to be a huge flood event, still flood watches in effect, but if we had been raining here for you, a couple of weeks at a time this would be a bigger factor. look at that windchill into the northeast. as it does so, it is going to do that rather quickly. by monday, this thing -- monday
into tuesday, completely out of our hair. >> we're not done with nate yet. big cities could be impacted today and you say the beginning of the week. i wonder, i've learned fr from weather there is another disturbance out there. what is the concern for another u.s. landfall? any? >> none at this point here. don't have to worry about that. one at a time, please, right? ophelia would be the next one. the disturbance is out in the middle of the atlantic. i'm not worried about it at this point. hopefully nate will be it. hurricane season continues through the end of november. with each passing week, chances for that continue to diminish, hopefully n will be it for 2017, already just a horrific year. >> it has. we hope so. that n is it. you're right. ivan cabrera, thank you so much. back to mississippi. still feeling nate, seeing the storm surge there, cnn's martin savidge is standing by in
biloxi. biloxi got the worst of it, maybe in the clear now. tell us what is happening there and officials had to get out and really find out more about the impact overnight. >> reporter: i hope nate is the last of it. i've had enough of these hurricanes and i'm sure many people have as well. they're doing better here. storm surge was the real concern. remember, this was a storm they feared might come across as a cat 2. in the end because of the speed across the gulf, it came in as a category 1. four or five hours ago it was really, really blowing and you saw how the water just came up. it surged out of the gulf of mexico, across u.s. highway 90, the one that runs along the coastline here, and then it got into some of the casino areas. biloxi is very big on that. and it looks like the water got heavily into some of the parking decks, also the public spaces, but we're told it did not get into any of the gaming areas. these casinos were devastated by
katrina in 2005. they made a lot of changes. so right now they're going to look and see what daylight brings. we have tens of thousand s of people without power along the mississippi gulf coast. we know that. there is one high water rescue that had to be made, a family in the car, turned down the wrong road, they were picked up by a high profile vehicle. they had to deal with a fire at the height of the storm. they did that. no reports of any injuries. but 90 was flooded. it is drained off now. but they have to inspect the whole highway and get trucks to clear debris. there say lot of debris out there including one port-a-potty we saw go floating by. and all, i think they'll say it was not as bad as they feared, but they'll wait until daylight to make the final call. >> all right, martin savidge for us there in biloxi. martin, thank you so much. storm chaser reed timer talked to cnn last hour about
the damage that he saw in mississippi. take a look. >> the main issue this storm was that storm surge. the water was several feet deep, just in front of some areas of biloxi, the eastern side of the island, just before the eyewall came in, we saw a wall of water, waves on top of it, come over this wall of bushes, and then just inundate the eastern side of the island. the winds were gusting to about 75 miles an hour, maybe a little stronger than that. so thankfully the winds weren't as strong. the surge wasn't as high as it could have been. still category 1 hurricane, it shows you how storm surge prone this part of the central gulf coast region is, even with the category 1 hurricane, you still had waters that were several feet deep. you had vehicles that were floating by, some areas, and definitely very high level of storm surge with this storm. >> one of the officials did say that they would be worried about what kind of debris and what kind of mess they would see along the beach at daylight. always the concern as well of downed trees and we did mention
some power outages. have you seen any damage to structures or anything like that? >> we did see some minor damage. there were some signs that were damaged, trees that were down, didn't see power flashes off in the distance as well. but the main damage was mainly that storm surge, the water levels are still too high to leave this area as well. we're inside the hotel. right now, our vehicles are up to the second floor of the parking garage, those vehicles are parked on first level were floating away. we did see some boats too that came apart, floating by as well. there was some damage, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it could have been. >> so that was the view from mississippi. we want to check in on how louisiana is faring. they were the ones on alert as well. >> let's bring in louisiana lieutenant governor billy nungesser. thank you for being with us this morning. what is your headline for louisiana? >> well, we dodged a bullet on
this one. i'm down at plaquemines parish, the point of the finger of louisiana that sticks out in the gulf, got nipped by the storm. we saw very little damage. the levees weren't topped, a little water in the boat harbors, but we dodged a bullet on this one. >> lieutenant governor, are you having any issues with power outages for the folks in lieu lieu ? >> we have had none down here in the parish, which usually loses power first, because we're sticking out in the gulf. the mayor lifted the curfew in the french quarter. people were back in the streets late last night. so we really feel for our people on the gulf coast, but we in louisiana really dodged a bullet here and so little to no damage. >> so we have this report from biloxi of one family that was rescued, still waiting for reports from mobile, reporter there. but for louisiana, any reports of injuries or rescues necessarily? >> no, we had buses and national
guard standing by and participated. we anticipated some of these brand-new federal levees in south plaquemines that don't have grass on them yet, raw dirt, possibly losing the levees, but they all held up. no rescues. we really made out good in this storm. >> so just for, you know, people who may be watching and wondering, i know that late last night there -- the mayor was saying there was still a threat of a storm surge for areas outside of the levee protection. has that diminished for you as well? you're not concerned about any sort of surge at all? >> not anymore. it is passed since that storm has gone ashore. if that storm had jockeyed more to the west, it would have been a whole different picture here in louisiana. and it shows you how little movement can really mean a lot for a city, a town and especially the coast of louisiana. >> we're so glad everybody there is safe. >> good news all around for louisiana. lieutenant governor billy
nungesser, thank you for checking in with us. >> thank you so much. have a good day. >> you too. take good care. let's talk about the new clues about this las vegas shooter. what investigators now are learning from this handwritten note. remember, we discussed the numbers that were on that pad that is highlighted on your screen. well, now they think they know what those numbers mean. i love you, couch. you give us comfort. and we give you bare feet, backsweat, and gordo's... everything. i love you, but sometimes you stink. soft surfaces trap odors. febreze fabric refresher cleans them away for good. because the things you love the most can stink. and plug in febreze to keep your whole room fresh for up to 45 days. breathe happy with febreze.
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that's the mystery one week later now . >> paddock killed himself after killing 58 people who were at that festival, 500 nearly were injured. he had an arsenal of rifle and 50 pounds of explosives there in his car. vice president pence spoke to survivors and the loved ones of people who were killed. listen. >> in america, we mourn with those who mourn. we grieve with those who grieve. and i stand before you today on behalf of my family, and every family in america, to say we are with you, today we are all vegas strong. >> our stephanie elam is in las vegas with more as we get back to the investigation portion of this and what those calculations really mean in trying to establish a motive here. >> calculations, that's what investigators now believe that the numbers written on the note pad found in the shooter's suite
were. this was first reported by cbs news, but what they believe is that there were calculations related to distance and trajectory from the window of the shooter's suite on the 32nd floor down to the venue. of course, having this one piece of information doesn't help at all with the motive, which is the one thing that is still very much frustrating investigators. they still say it is unclear why the 64-year-old man would do such a heinous crime. they do not know why he would do that. but we do have a little bit more information about the man who may have really helped stop this from being a much more tragic event, hard to believe we could think of that. but here is what they're saying jesus campos did. he was responding, because he works for mandalay security, he was responding to an open door alarm on the 32nd floor, several doors down from where the shooter was staying. it had nothing to do with the shooter, but when he came upon that floor, remember, the shooter had cameras out in the
hall, they believe the shooter saw him on the camera and started to engage with him, shot through the door, hitting campos in the leg. but because of campos' quick reaction, he radioed down to security, they were able to tell police where this shooter was, on the 32nd floor, if it hadn't been for him showing up on the floor and also making that call, it could have taken first responders much longer to figure out which floor the shooter was using to rain down bullets on the concert venue. so wrinkle, huge detail there that this could have been a much worse situation had it not been for jesus campos. stephanie elam, cnn, las vegas, nevada. >> thank you so much, stephanie. now, want to tell you about some white nationalists that went back to shacharlottesville virginia. >> a rally in the same place where the violent protests happened in august. according to wvir, this was a much smaller group than the one that was there in august.
lasted for a few minutes, no violence. they stood in front of the robert e. lee statue that first started the trouble, the protests a few months ago. and now has a shroud covering it. government officials reacted pretty quickly. the mayor tweeted this, another despicable visit by neo-nazi cowards, you're not welcome here, go home. we're look at all our legal options. stay tuned. this from virginia governor terry mcauliffe, we're monitoring the situation as we continue to oppose the racists and their message of hate. cnn's brooke baldwin spoke about this group this gathering, with professor mark lamont hill. he said the rally was notably different from august's rally there in several ways. watch. >> reading about this, you know, 20 minutes, much smaller crowd, seemed like not violent, but still they were back. >> they were back. they are very committed to the
idea of saying that this statue removal is a problem. they also decry the loss of white rights. the republican politicians are defending white rights, white interests, this is a white nation, needs to be protected. typical white nationalist rant you heard there, but the crowd was much smaller, response was a little bit different, the mayor said all the right things. this is different from a few weeks ago. we don't want to also diminish how significant it is particularly when they scream we'll be back. you talk about terrorism, this is domestic terrorism, that's a kind of threat, when the klan says we're coming back, that's always been a threat. this is no different. >> they said they would be back the last time. when we covered in august. we remember the way president trump responded and responded again and then he was, you know, extraordinarily criticized of this whole on both sides comments. do you hope that he weighs in? do you hope his response is different this time? >> yes. i actually do hope that he responds. and i hope he gives the ideal
response. ideal response is, similar to the mayor, this is despicable, no place for this kind of ideology in our nation. it exists, we hate it. that's all we have to say about it. we don't have to give this more oxygen than it needs. that's what the white house should say. what trump will say, who knows. i really like the tiki torches, who knows what he'll say. i'd like to see leadership here. i think one thing the white house learned from the last time, they couldn't ignore this. many times trump says things that people find offensive. >> he had to say something. he said the wrong thing. >> he doubled down on the wrong thing. then tried to come back and just last night, donald trump jr. comes back and tries to defend the comments. it is an interesting moment in time for this to happen. this time around, the white house will be much more measured, more careful, and hopefully give a better response. >> what is your -- huge weekend in charlottesville,
bicentennial, tons of people in town. i hear you and saying, you know, don't downplay it, it is horrendous that the people showed back up, do you see it a positive they came through with their tiki torches and that was that? >> the worst case scenario was much worse than this. we could see violence. we don't want to see another death. i'm happy they came, they marched, and no one said much about it. the fact they didn't have a huge crowd was also significant. the fact there wasn't a big uproar is significant. i'm happy about that stuff. we have to remind ourselves that this is a sector of the american public. many people didn't believe this number of people would have come out. certainly not the number of people that came out last time. but important we cover it, talk about it, and know this san artifact of a much bigger cultural moment in the united states. and so i hope we keep talking about it, we don't give it too much oxygen.
we're doing a good balance of it right now. hopefully the white house follows that lead. >> we'll see if they do. stay tuned to the twitter. to the president. >> eyes glued. >> thank you so much. thank you. also a statement from the charlottesville police department, they said that city officials, state officials will be working with them to see if any legal action can be taken in response to the event. >> well, "saturday night live" got real serious, paying tribute to the victims of that las vegas massacre and they did so with the man who was on stage as the gunshots started. country music star jason aldean. ♪ i won't back down hey baby ♪
well, nate is now a tropical storm this hour after it made landfall and did so twice overnight. first in louisiana, and then mississippi. and it did so as a category 1 hurricane. >> on the phone with us now, lee smith is an executive director for the mississippi emergency management agency. he's in gulf port, mississippi. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> so, give us the larger picture here. the headline there is storm surge. what damage has been done by that storm surge? what are you seeing? >> well, we'll start our thorough damage assessments when the sun comes up this morning. but i think that the overall damage is going to be negligible, because of the very good rebuilding efforts with the building codes that we had after hurricane katrina. so primary focus this morning on doing damage assessments with respect to the storm surge will be over in jackson county. which got the brunt of surge. we had reports throughout the night of some damage, but,
again, 70-mile-an-hour winds and darkness, it is difficult to tell the extent of the damage. that's our number one priority as the sun comes up this morning. >> what about rescues? were there any calls for people who were in need? >> we had two high water rescues throughout the night, one in pascagoula, mississippi, which is jackson county, one in gulf port, mississippi. people who did not adhere to the curfew that was out. they were successfully rescued, so other than that, we have no reports of any injuries, certainly no deaths. and for the most part people did adhere to our 7:00 p.m. curfew. >> how about power outages? >> right now we have reports of 40,000 mississippi power and light customers without power. we have not gotten a good look from our cooperative power association right now. we did have 800 line men on stand by last night. they have started moving into the impacted areas now. so we don't expect widespread power outages throughout the day today. i think they have got very good
crews and they're starting to work now. we should see the number of customers without power drastically dropping off as the morning goes on. >> you talked about how you haven't had a lot of problems because you think people really took precautions, they heeded the warnings coming in. i don't know if we can pull that video up of the casino that did flood. and it had some -- there were a couple of cars sitting in this parking garage. and we couldn't help but wonder who would leave their car, there is a truck, looks like lights are blinking because it may be going off, but the -- at alarm, another car sitting there. we know that these have been rebuilt, another car, but on an upper level, why would somebody leave a car on a lower level of a parking garage? >> i have absolutely no idea. these garages were designed to accommodate storm surge, so that's why there is nothing but parking spaces on the lower
levels of those casinos. it is unrestricted parking there. so people could have parked on the upper deck, so my staff and i continue to wonder that. we saw that. there is absolutely no reason. the only thing we can think of is those people simply weren't around, maybe parked their cars and went out of town, we don't know. but it is inexcusable, and, again, that's why when we move the gambling casinos inland after hurricane katrina, one of the things they had to build to was 15 feet of base load elevation, so parking below 15 feet of sea level. so there should have been no vehicles left there unattended. i do have an update on the power outages that i just now got in. 80,000 in our electric power associations without power. and right now we got a good look at 187,000 without power in the
southern part of mississippi. >> 187,000 across southern mississippi. and that's in addition to the other 80,000 -- >> mississippi power and light. and we have private electric power cooperatives and they're reporting 80,000. again, we do have very robust crew of lines men, so we expect that the power outages to be greatly reduced now that the winds have died down and the sun is coming up. >> that's a significant increase, more than a quarter million in mississippi alone. there are line men out trying to get those folks back online. lee smithson, thank you very much for that update. we have this now in from dauphin island, alabama. the mayor there tells cnn there is significant flooding, homes and cars are flooded throughout the island, and the causeway leading to dauphin island is now closed. the west end of the island is inaccessible because of the depths of water, 4 to 6 feet,
he's saying. this is mayor jeff collier who is checking in, saying the water is starting to recede, that's happened in the past hour or so. well, "saturday night live" honors the victims of the las vegas massacre with the very man who was on stage when it all started, jason aldean. >> you can be sure that we're going to walk through these tough times together every step of the way. ♪ in a world that keeps on ♪ if you've got a life, you gotta swiffer with deeply restorative care. garnier whole blends. legendary olive leave-in conditioner.
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break bread, share our day and connect as a family. [ bloop, clicking ] and connect, as a family. just, uh one second voice guy. [ bloop ] huh? hey? i paused it. bam, family time. so how is everyone? find your awesome with xfinity xfi and change the way you wifi. "saturday night live" got serious. they paid tribute to the victims of the lost vegas massacre and they did so and i think it's really important to point out that they did it with country singer jason aldean. he was was their special guest and he was the one last sunday night who was standing on stage when that gunman opened fire on the 22,000 people who were there to see him perform.
♪ >> "snl" opened their show with aldean delivering a message to the victims and their families and then he performed a tribute to tom petty who died monday by playing, "i won't back down." ♪ and i won't back down hey, baby there ain't no easy way out ♪ ♪ hey baby >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news! good morning, everybody. so grateful to have your company. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. breaking news. nate no longer a hurricane. downgraded to a tropical storm and parts of the gulf coast still suffering from widespread
why, next was the fbi involved in this? the agency has 35,000 employees. it's got unmatched resources and expertise. it's the fbi. why would it even consider going to a private investigator to do research on a president-elect? keep in mind, this is not the first time the fbi has outsourced a major investigation. recall that federal agents never examined the dnc servers after they were supposedly hacked by an outside party during the campaign. instead, the fbi relied on the work of a dnc contractor this assured them that russia was behind the hacking. why would the fbi do that? did anyone at the justice department consider that hiring third party actors with unclear motives to conduct a high-profile investigation might be an excellent way for say foreign intelligence operations to sow chaos and promote their agendas? at the least without claims be colored by their natural desire
lot of this stuff and actually pay, use the taxpayer's money to pay this british subject for this wacky report. but to me, one of the most disturbing things about this is, you'll recall that the director of national intelligence, clapper, asked james comey supposedly to get and have a meeting with trump and tell trump that they have a dossier explaining how he likes to enjoy highly specialized prostitution services in eastern europe, and they have this dossier. and then the minute that they held the meeting, it mysteriously -- the news of this meeting gets leaked to the press. and i think it's a reasonable inference that clapper only and comey only actually arranged this. this meeting with trump to tell him about the specialized prostitution services this dossier has about him. this meet -- it's a reasonable
inference this meeting took place only so that news of could be leaked to the press. that's actually extremely deeply disturbing for the intelligence community and the fbi. >> by the way, i agree with you. if they did this to president obama, who i did not like, i'd say the same thing. you cannot have rogue agencies. thanks for that perspective. >> thanks, tucker. >> in an interview this afternoon, former clinton campaign spokesman brian fallon acknowledged that hillary herself may have known about the decision to fund the trump dossier. >> just to be clear, brian, you have said previously in the last 24 hours, you don't believe hillary clinton knew about this either. is that right? >> oh, i don't know. i haven't asked. i haven't spoken to her. >> thanks for clarifying. >> yes. >> shouldn't she know, shouldn't you, someone so high up in the campaign be informed of this? >> she may have known, but the
degree of exactly what she knew is beyond my knowledge. >> she may have known. in other words, she knew. she kept it secret a year. brad is here with us. thanks for coming. >> how are you doing? >> i'm baffled as always. living here in washington. she not only kept this from herself, but it was not disclosed publicly. so here you have a campaign paying a foreign national some of the money probably going to who knows where but other foreign nationals, maybe a foreign government and not disclosing it publicly. i don't think it's legal. >> first of all, i was running a super pact that part of our responsibility was to place opposition research on donald trump. i wish i had this dossier, tucker. i would have tattooed it to my butt and exposed it. but here's the thing. who cares who paid? remember, it began to be paid by
a republican. a republican -- >> still anonymous. >> a republican began the research. >> wait a second. i thought the whole point that these are the russians. this is information that came in part from kremlin connected russian officials and it was used to influence a presidential campaign. that was the very charge democrats were levelling -- >> the point of the opposition -- >> it's okay when they do it? >> it's to identify what was happening with russian collusion with the trump campaign. it was to expose -- >> the hooker part -- >> it was to expose donald trump's connections to russian. >> stop. let me ask you, if this is what you're arguing. >> hold on. are you arguing -- >> here's what i'm asking -- >> are you arguing that the russians were trying to elect hillary clinton? now donald trump -- >> can i ask you -- may i ask
you? >> that's crap. >> may i ask you a real question? we have now confirmed and you just saw hillary clinton's spokesman confirming that the clinton campaign paid money to fusion gps which hired this former intelligence officer from britain that got information from the kremlin in effect. you're saying that's okay, hillary's campaign used information from the kremlin to beat trump because it was exposing trump? >> first of all, the dossier came out after the election. i have no knowledge -- >> no, no. the printed dossier came out. this is intelligence gathering operation. it comes in fits and spurts. that was the whole point. >> you have seen -- >> but you're saying -- may i ask you -- look, they paid for it. the information came from the kremlin. they used it in a political campaign in a presidential campaign. i thought the whole charge was trump was using information from the kremlin to win. but turns out hillary was. >> the charge is, is that the
russians colluded possibly, that's what's under investigation with the trump campaign to elect donald trump. the russians were not cooperating with christopher steele to elect hillary clinton. it's asinine. >> it's more than a charge. the republicans -- >> to what end -- steele was working sources -- >> let me finish any sentence. everyone admits that the russians gave information to the hillary campaign for pay. they paid fusion and steele, information from the russians goes to the hillary campaign to beat trump. you don't think that is -- >> that is opposition research. >> oh! >> it's entirely different than when russians are buying ads -- >> totally makes sense. what i needed is another lesson in washington vocabulary. looked like collusion or what was last week is collusion is
now opposition research. >> we're talking about interfering and collusion. >> i get it. >> let's get to the bottom of what this is about. this is about undermining the fbi investigation. because mueller is in hot pursuit of trump. now you have the -- >> if i can just correct you. what it's about is george orwell who wrote the textbook to -- >> 17 agencies said that russians colluded to help -- >> all right. all right. thanks for joining us. >> not that they were trying to elect hillary, tucker. >> thank you. missing hard drives, bungled time lines. the las vegas security guard that was the only eye witness of this massacre fled the country. why did investigators let him go and where did he go? details in just a minute. you know who likes to be
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chairman nunes joins us tonight. thanks for being here. >> great to be here. >> tucker: so one of the most terrifying facts that we've learned in the past two days is that the fbi apparently was one of the funders of this dossier. even after trump was elected president. how can that be? >> well, let's take a step at a time here, tucker. we don't know that yet. part of the reason why we don't know that yet, we have subpoenaed fbi and justice department to give us this information. what we know so far for -- that's we believe to be factual from "the washington post" piece is that the democrats paid for the dossier. they paid fusion gps for the dossier. we believe that to be true. we have fusion gps that pled the fifth. so they refuse to testify. they're now trying to block us from getting information to get to financial records of who they paid, who could they have paid,
who could they have hired, all those sorts of things. they're trying to block us on that. >> tucker: on what grounds, by the way? on what grounds could you say we don't have a right to know that? >> look, we've subpoenaed the documents. we're waiting -- we have the house general counsel representing us in court. when you plead the fifth and go to court to block us from getting the information and it gets leaked to "the washington post" that the dnc and the hillary campaign paid for this, i think we have a problem. now i think the next focus is going to be on whether or not did the fbi use this dossier to get any warrants, did they use it to open accountser intelligence investigation and if they did, if they're using unverified information to open up inquiries into american citizens, i think we have a big problem. >> tucker: from a political campaign -- >> from a political campaign. >> tucker: which is unverified in some cases to effect the outcome an election. so it's a simple question.
you're the chairman of one of the most powerful committees in the house of representatives. why can't you get an answer? >> you'd think we would be able to. that's the problem. >> tucker: is that constitutional? >> this is why the speaker of the house came out this morning and called on doj to provide this information to the house of representatives. that's why we're in court, trying to get this information. it's been since march. it's not like this is new. we didn't just stumble into this. these subpoenas were issued 60 days ago. >> tucker: but the fbi is not its own country. they can't make their own decisions, right? >> last time i checked, the u.s. congress created the fbi. >> tucker: is there anything more terrifying than the prospect of an armed rogue agency? >> no. no. that's the challenge here. if you had an unverified dossier paid for by political opponents, in this case, the democratic
party and the fbi is taking and using to open investigations into a campaign or into other americans, we are in a slippery slope. i think this is what you see in third world countries where the party in power uses the intelligence services for their political gain. you don't see that in the united states of america. >> tucker: there's a new fbi director. there are lots of fbi officials that go on television. has anybody from the fbi publicly explained why they're not letting the house intelligence committee know this information? >> no, they have not. not yet. >> tucker: that's really upsetting. so the uranium one scandal, we know that a democratic lobbying firm in washington, the podesta group, was engaged in lobbying on behalf of these interests. we know the clinton family foundation took millions from
uranium one. is anybody going to get to whether the obvious happened? that was a quid pro quo. we get to the bottom of that. >> here's what i think is disturbing and what we're looking for first. the new information here, a lot of people are asking, what happened? this was seven years ago. what happened? first of all, you had republicans in 2010 wrote in opposition to the sale on this uranium one. then we now have information -- this is the new information. we have informants that said there was an open fbi doj investigation. we have people that have told us this. we don't know if it's true yet. if it's true, shortly after that -- if you have an open investigation, how do nine cabinet level secretaries approve a sale? >> tucker: great question. >> then the questions that you raised. i was the clinton foundation involved.
millions of dollars -- >> tucker: where was the american interest in this? nonpresent. good luck getting that information. >> we'll get it one way or the other. >> tucker: just a few hours ago, a source provided us the document proving that jesus campos left the country days after being the only witness within the hotel to america's worst massacre in modern history. we know where he went and we will tell you next. when you say you need a heart transplant... that's a whole different ballgame. i was in shock. i am very proud of the development of drugs that can prevent the rejection and prevent the recurrence of the original disease. i never felt i was going to die. we know so much about transplantation. and we're living longer. you cannot help but be inspired by the opportunities that a transplant would offer. my donor's mom says "you were meant to carry his story".
>> tucker: we received this document from a confidential source this afternoon. it shows that jesus campos entered the united states from mexico at the border crossing in san diego county almost exactly to the hour one week after the las vegas shooting the begin of october. the document does not reveal how long campos had been in mexico. our source told us that campos entered the u.s. at the same crossing january of this year. at that time he was driving his own vehicles with nevada plates. in this document from two weeks ago, campos was driving what appears to be a rental car with california plates. this information raises a number of questions about the las vegas investigation and the crime itself. jesus campos is the only eye witness to the biggest mass shooting in modern american history. at the time he was in mexico, the press was reporting that investigators thought stephen paddock may have had an accomplice. why did authorities allow campos
to leave the country just days after the shooting? the investigation was chaotic and ongoing. how did campos who had a gunshot wound to the leg manage to travel to mexico? did he fly? did he drive? was his employer aware that he left the country? was investigators away? did they facilitate the trip? what day did campos get to mexico? how did he drive back to las vegas? why did he take a rental car? the union that represents campos said they claim it was a preplanned visit. why did it take a government leak for the rest of us to find that out? why is mgm so content on cont l controlling availability to campos? why did he appear with a co-worker? why did ellen ask leading softball questions? why are so many people going so
much to shape this story of jesus campos? abc spoke to campos on october 4. was he in mexico? did they know where he was when they talked to him? what do we know about jesus campos? for example, is he a licensed security guard? we checked today. it turns out he's not registered with the state of nevada. we called the sheriff to see what license is required to be a security guard at a las vegas casino. the sheriff's office refused to tell us this. jesus campos is a victim, the spokesman said. we don't speak about victim. naturally we repeated the question. he became angry and started yelling and hung up on us, which raises the question, we won't authorities answer basic questions about jesus campos? here's a few more. does he have a criminal record? not attacking him. what did he do for the hotel? did he have previous contact with stephen paddock? how was campos injured?
press reports claim she was shot in the leg from an ar-15-style rifle. that round could easily destroy a man's leg and often does. given that, how could campo possibly have driven 700 miles from las vegas and back less than a week later? an then there's stephen paddock, the shooter. we still know nothing about him. even the most basic questions about his behavior remain unanswered such as how did he get access to the freight elevator? how many other guests had that access? does video from the casino show him entering the elevator alone or with others? how often did he use it and why was he using it? more broadly, had stephen paddock ever appeared on the radar of the fbi? here was a man gambling millions of dollars and stockpiling weapons and ammunition. his name was all over federal databases. nobody in law enforcement noticed him?
we learned that paddock's computer is missing a hard drive. why did it take a month for investigators to tell us that? did they just find out? we don't know. what do we really know about paddock or his family? his brother was arrested on child pornography charges. was that part of a separate investigation? how many family members does he have? was he in regular contact with them? do they have any reason to believe he was planning attack? where is his girlfriend? this story gets murkier by the day. that is the opposite of what is supposed to happen. it's impossible to know what is going on with the vegas shooting. we're not going to speculate. it's obvious there's lying and incompetence at the heart of it. with us now, former secret service agent, dan bongino. dan, why would investigators allow jesus campos who again was the sole eye witness that we know of to the shooting from within the building to leave the country shortly after while the
investigation is still going on? i'm baffled by that. >> it's very strange, tucker. there's no guarantee he's ever going to return. he's not under arrest. he's not under any court order to stay in the country. they're limited legally what they can do to order him to stay but it's confusing. i was thinking about this. even the most innocent of explanations. he's a witness of one of the most horrific crimes in america. obviously traumatizing. maybe he has family down there he's visiting. he needed some team. but to go to mexico right after the crime when you're the sole eye witness to the crime of the century and as you brought up in the segment, you have a significant injury, a round to the leg is really beyond perplexing. there's no convenient explanation for it. >> tucker: i don't think it's possible. if you were hit with that round,
i don't think you'd be going anywhere. it would have destroyed your leg. i don't know anything about jesus campos. i felt sorry for him. i still do he was injured. but the behavior of the people around him is so weird and weird in a specific way. they're trying to control access to him and control the story about him. they're clamping down on information about him and his actions. why would they be doing that? is it mgm? what is going on? >> i'm with you. neither am i. i'm not trying to impugn his character. this guy was a victim of the crime as well. but the -- that doesn't make the questions go away. the only explanation i can think of from the beginning, the genesis of this, this kind of feud state we're in. because we have more answers against san bernardino and orlando in 24 hours. the fbi is investigating this.
there's no other convenient explanation. that explains the timeline discrepancies. i think this limited and controlled access to jesus campos and a reason why the parent company may not have had a problem with him leaving the country for a couple days. >> tucker: they may have facilitated it. it wouldn't shock me at all. doesn't explain the behavior of the clark county sheriff. our producer called over there today to ask a simple question about licensing. this guy doesn't have a license as a security guard. what are the rules? they were so defensive. they yelled at him and hung up. spokesmen don't act that way when they're asked a simple question. what is that about? >> especially from a major media outlet. tucker, we have to remember -- we respect law enforcement. but this was a crime perpetrated on the american people. people are justifiably concerned why it happened and we have no answers.
you have to expect there's profound media interest in this. yeah, answering like that doesn't help. >> tucker: right. i respect law enforcement. if you want respect, behave in a way that earns it. quickly, this guy, it's not implausible that he came to the attention of authorities. he was gambling, churning a lot of money through the casinos. nobody has asked -- how did he come to the attention of federal authorities. you think it's plausible they knew who he was? >> yeah. once you deposit 10,000 or more, you have to fill out a currency transaction report at a bank. he may have had suspicious activities in banks as well. i don't think he was a ghost. i think his information comes out, you'll see more. >> tucker: i think so. i think there's butt covering going on too. thank you, dan. >> yes, sir. >> tucker: the federal government is giving away millions of work permits to people that don't live here. a lot of them are illegally here. why would they be doing that?
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when you book direct at choicehotels.com. book now. >> tucker: in the past year, the federal government has awarded close to 2 million work permits to asylum seeker and illegals in the u.s. without having a job lined up. why are they doing that? wendy is here with us to explain. thanks for coming up. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: so there's tens of millions of americans out of the work force. 100 million. some don't. some do. why given that, there's an unemployment crisis that's not reflecting the numbers. why would be letting millions here illegally have work permits? >> it's interesting. we have these undocumented workers. they make up 5.2% of the u.s.
labor work force and they get this visa. they work with it. the interesting thing here is discretionary. it can be revoked at any time. 17% of the group are individuals looking for asylum and the other are the daca employees. if you're looking at this from a business case, what you'd say is the economics of it sort of makes sense here. the reason why is that, you know, when we look at the numbers, we see that if you are working and you're one of the undocumented workers, you've made up more money and put into the social security fund, more than you're needed in the country. so it's like $300 billion. >> tucker: that's not actually happening. what is striking to me, when i was a kid, the left cared about workers and their condition and wages and now every liberal i talk to about immigration says, well, it's good for the bottom
line. employers like it. it's good for shareholders. >> yeah. >> tucker: have you noticed that change? >> i have. but it's important for us not to make this a political conversation. if you look at it, you have states like texas, georgia, arizona, even north carolina. these are states that donald trump won in the election. they actually have the highest number of undocumented workers. >> tucker: maybe that's why he won those states. people are frustrated. as a philosophical matter, doesn't any government owe its first allegiance to its own citizens? look out for them first. if i have four kids, if i'm letting my kids starve but giving food to my neighbor's kids, maybe i'm shirking my duty. we're ignoring our employees and employing the rest of the world? >> depends how you look at it. the narrative can be flipped on its head. if you look at individuals that get an h 2 b visa, you have to
advertise that job and tried to fill that job at the wage in which you're offering and only then -- >> but here's the thing. our schools are terrible. the middle of the country is dying. 60,000 people died of drug overdoses last year. what is the incentive to make our schools better and the heartland better if we can import people that are educated in india? nothing against them. why would you ever make american schools better when you can import the talent? >> as an educator, there's enough room for those that live abroad and those that live here. our school system is in dire straits and needs to be focused on. we don't need to look at other people and say let's strengthen our economy with other individuals -- >> tucker: wait a second. the employers really felt like they had no option but to hire americans, if i'm j.p. morgan or
westinghouse or johns hopkins university, i'd say hey, school district, turn out some people that can work for me. capable of it. i want to invest in the schools. make them better. now it's like it doesn't matter. i'll bring in impressing workers that work for less and have impressive engineering degrees. you see where i'm going? >> i am. but there's people that want to hire american workers and they say i won't do the job for this wage. that's where it gets muddy. >> tucker: damn those american workers. they want too much. they want too much. that's all. >> we don't want too much. wore a great country. >> thank you. >> tucker: our next guest says the west is on the brink of destruction. we face a terrifying threat. not islamic extremism. it's white nationalism. that argument is next. ( ♪ )
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>> tucker: welcome back. i want to give you a news update that came in. we had been reporting on uranium one deal/scandal that took place during the obama administration when a rush company took over a huge part of our uranium reserves. there was a justice department investigation into bribery, russians bribing americans to get that deal through and there was an informant at the center of that. he's not been allowed to speak to congress. he's under a gag order. that gag order ended about five minutes ago. the justice department says he will be allowed to speak congressional committees. expect more on that story. a spector is haunting the west. the spector of white nationalism in this book "go back to where you came from." the biggest threat to democracy
isn't mass immigration from nonwestern societies, instead of right wing hostility for new arrivals. sasha, thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me, tucker. >> tucker: i guess the 30,000 feet question is, can you be surprised that when you change a society as old as european society or one as old as ours completely through immigration in a short period of time, that some people won't like it and there will be a backlash. does that surprise you? >> i'm not surprised at all, tucker. i don't believe in absolute open borders and i absolutely understand why people are unsettled, why they're recentful and upset. i reported in germany and france and holland and denmark. people are angry and they have
grievances and fears and the left has not listened to them for years. so i get why people are recentful. what i'm concerned about and what worries me, we have a new group of politicians in far right populus parties want to take our societies back 100 years in a dangerous direction. i'm acknowledging that terrorism is a huge threat to our society. but great democracies persevere and manage. look at the u.k. look at france after the attacks. look at us after 9/11. it's insides that stir resentment. we know where that has taken us in the past. and it's dangerous and divisive and we need leaders and a news channel that will come out and swiftly and forcefully condemn those ideas when they emerge.
>> tucker: yeah. i think you're point is hysterical and silly. part of it is real. part of it is totally real. you're right. there's been a rise in nationalism -- >> doesn't it bother you that people like david duke -- >> tucker: david duke is -- this is the part that makes me take you less seriously. it's hard to take your seriously when you take david duke seriously. when you hold him up in some sort of harbinger of the fewer, i know you're ridiculous, a second ago -- >> people like david duke and richard spencer have emerged into the public square. we have to have a debate about immigration. you and i agree about that. by david duke shouldn't have any part of -- >> tucker: and he doesn't. you're fear mongering and shutting down that debate. >> what happened in charlottesville? what happened in gainsville when
people fired into a crowd of protesters? doesn't that scare you? isn't that a threat to our country and democracy? >> tucker: what you're looking at is a completely myopic picture of what is happening. you're seeing a lot of drama because there's massive social change in this country coming from all directions. some of them are not possible to understand. it's not as simply as the rise of white nationalism. you get a volatile society when you change it overnight and you don't give people a chance to weigh-in on whether they like it or not. it's simple. >> people should have a chance to weigh-in, tucker. what i am talking about is politicians that exploit those fears. it's one thing to say in germany, for instance, we can't take in one million immigrants in one year. that's impossible to integrate no matter how rich and how good -- >> tucker: so what you think you're going to get? >> when politicians emerge in a country like germany that has a history of genocide, it causes concern. >> tucker: i have 10 seconds.
whose fault is that? why aren't you blaming angela merkel for that? >> it's politicians that are stoking fears -- >> tucker: thanks. we're out of time. that was interesting. more on the breaking news from russia. there's an actual russia scandal. we have more on it next. or joi. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is the number one selling brain-health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.
vegas casinos. places tens of thousands of dollars worth of bets in recent weeks. but why he did this, they simply have no clue. they know he has been acquiring weapons over the past several months. he has bought at gun stores in nevada, possibly outside the state as well. that part of nevada he is from, mesquite, is right on the border. so he could go to other states to try to buy weapons and have them sent back to the gun dealers in nevada 20 do it legally. but the big question here is how did he acquire automatic weapons. you've heard the sounds on the videos of these rapid shots. machine guns are illegal in the u.s. but it's possible to buy conventional semiautomatic weapons, meaning they fire every time you pull the trigger, but just one round and convert them. but that conversion process can make the weapons illegal. so the authorities are trying to figure out how he managed to get
his hands on these automatic weapons. he had some of those in the room. he had sniper rifles with scopes. so he clearly intended to have a great deal of firepower. they say when he checked into the hotel last thursday, he had all this arsenal with him in ten suitcases. so ten pieces of baggage. so nobody would have seen obviously that he was carrying in weapons to the hotel, chris. and they say that while he was there thursday, friday, saturday, sunday, and then into today, he didn't -- he didn't have them out in plain view that the hotel housekeeping staff had been in and out of his room and never noticed anything out of line. >> well, that's horrific. what about his father being in the ten most wanted list? what do you make of that? i don't believe in sort of inherited psychopathy. but what do you make of it? >> well, it's certainly something that they want to look
at. his father, benjamin hoskins paddock was arrested for robbing banks in phoenix in 1960, and then in 1968, while he was serving a 20-year sentence for the conviction on that, he scaped. that's what you're looking at now is his wanted poster from the fbi back in '68. then they described him on that poster, chris, down there at the bottom wrun it says caution as somebody who is diagnosed as psychopathic and has suicidal tendencies. and whether it means anything or not, after he -- escaped -- rather, after he robbed the bank in phoenix, he was arrested in las vegas. >> wow. >> so the paddocks have some connection to las vegas. they've been in and out of that area. they lived in arizona and nevada. so this is a part of the country that he is comfortable with. but what the father's background has anything to do with his current frame of mind, we just have no way of knowing.
because, chris, none of the usual indicators here, none of the electronic breadcrumbs seem to be in place. no social media. no note left behind. no at this point obvious internet conversations that we know of. none of these little indicators we tend to have found by this many hours after these past shootings. >> wow. great reporting, pete. we're going find out more as the days go on i'm sure. i'm joined right now by mick akers, a report were "the las vegas sun." that must be something of a lead that the father was on the most wanted list and was listed in the most wanted poster as psychopathic. >> definitely. although he has no background, really. it just adds a little something there. >> what do you know right now about this witnesses? what witnesses do we have on the 32nd floor where he was shooting from? >> yeah, i spoke with one gentleman from atlanta. he said he was about five rooms
away. he was asleep. between 10:00 and 10:15, he was awoken by hundreds of rounds of shots. he could smell the gunpowder. he immediately called the front desk. they said they're aware of an active shooter situation and to remain in his room. he said he hit the ground and waited it out. eventually metro police came up and escorteded him out of his room and down the 32 floors. >> let's get down the floors to the concert area. what do you know you can tell us about the casualty in this random 1200 feet away of a machine gunning of the crowd where he is just aiming the gun into the crowd and it's like a horrible lottery for those people. >> yeah. it just seemed like he was kind of playing a game. he would wait for them to get up and then start shooting. and once they would hit the ground, he would stop and then they would get up and he would start shooting again. a sister was 30-year-old and he was 20.
every time they would jump, she would jump on him. he had a longer life to live and more aspirations. she would gladly take the bullet for him. >> the shooter had some tripods. he also had a scope. you're telling me that he was a sniper. he could actually shoot personal targets from that distance? >> i'm not sure if he was able to do that. i know he was shooting at will. so i'm sure the 22,000 people there in attendance, it wasn't that hard for him to hit people even from that distance. >> thank you so much, mick akers for joining us. i'm joined now by brian hopkins. sea musician who was at l.a. night's concert. thank you. shortly after the shooting started hopkins and others ran for cover, eventually hiding in a large freeze attorney concert grounds. brian, tell us about your experience last night. >> it was -- it was kind of crazy. because when it happened, i wasn't sure what was going on. and we were right in front near the front of the stage.
and i heard bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. and people started rung. i grabbed a couple of girls right in front of me and my best friend, took off and got trampled. he got up and start eed running. and i took these people around the back side. i was backstage so i knew how to get there. and i ran down a wall, down the wall. and you could just hear bang bang bang bang bang happening. and you could hear it banging off the rooftop behind me and hitting around us. so i -- i don't know how -- i remember there was an opening where the entrance was to the right. and we ran into a fence. and i knew i could get over, but i couldn't get all the people that were screaming over. so i see this cooler. and when i opened it up, one of my friends was inside. and we just started throwing
people inside. it was about five feet off the ground. it was an actual freezer. and we locked ourselves in there. and we could hear -- we could hear the firing. and it was so cold inside. and the two young ladies that i was helping, they were amazing because they were calming down the one person and the guy who was throwing his fingers in front of the camera was banging on the walls. and we were trying to calm him down. and then i got up to open up the door. and there was more firing. so we shut the door. and i looked at my friend across the way. and i said everything is going to be okay. and he shook his head, like it's not. so we waited a couple of minutes. and i thought to myself, we're not going to die in here. and so i opened up -- he got up with me. we opened up the door. and someone had put a ramp up along the fence. and one guy jumped out. another guy jumps. and i asked the guy, the second guy to wait.
and i jumped down and i started helping the ladies get up over the fence until everyone was just trying to get over. and we were helping until the last two. and they were the two that i helped -- they stayed with me. and i couldn't get them over. so i turned to ron. and a police officer runs at me and screams "this way, this way." and i remember he is sweating and was just shaken up. but as soon as i get past him, he starts running to where all the noise is going for, all the bad is happening. he runs to it. and i'll never forget it. because then we were running down, and there was a body and body and another body. and the girls start to panic. and one of them started crying and wanted to call her dad. and i said keep running. and then we see a gentleman with a hole in his belly. and his friends trying to bring him to life.
and i started shaking, but it was keep moving, keep moving. and we run across the street. and there are people barricaded behind a bar. and the guy in the passenger seat was shot. and soy just told everybody run to the dark. just run. and people were following me. and we ran as far as we could run. but it still wasn't out of reach. it was like 50 yards. and two gentlemen on another side pull a gate so we can get me through and i could pull the gate open so everyone could get through this gate with us. and start running to hooters. it was terrifying and i don't -- i remember being calm during the whole thing. and as soon as i got home, i broke down. because i don't -- i should have -- part of me like oh, that fence, i can over that fence and i can get out of here. now and i ended up jumping in a cooler with everybody to try to keep them calm. but i didn't know if there were
shooters running around shooting and trying to get people quiet. i had no idea. and i lost my best friend. and i didn't know where he was. so i just stayed with these people. >> sir, i don't know you, but you have a good heart and you have great instincts for saving people. thank you so much, bryan hopkins for that incredible narration of the horror last night. >> thank you. >> joining us right now the nevada congresswoman adena titus. i've been watching. i hear automatic weaponry. i heard a machine gun. and i heard it relentless. it's a lot of clips, a lot of bananas. just kept firing and firing and firing. this guy goes into a hotel room with over a dozen weapons. what does it tell you about the state of las vegas and the law in las vegas? what should it be? what have we got here? >> well, i have to commend law enforcement here in las vegas, along with first responders and with the private security at mandalay bay. i don't know how you could have prevented this. they are looking at now las vegas being more of a hard
target than a soft target to see how we can improve security. but if you look at what all they did, they saved lives. as you heard mr. hopkins saying, running into the area that was full of people who were being harmed. >> well, what do you make of the elements at work here? i don't want to make this into a night of crusade on a night of horror where we should just sort of grieve and accept reality for a while. this guy zbees a hotel with weapons and tripods and scopes, everything with a clear intention to use them. he wasn't going to carry them home with him. is there anything we can do about stopping the act, this kind of act? >> well, you've got to remember, these were all in suitcases. he was staying for several days. he was in a sweet. the housekeeping staff had been in and out and not seen anything out of the way because nothing was visible. what do you do to check people's suitcases when you come in? that's something to look at. but i can tell you, we don't
want to make it political on this day of mourning, as you said. our office is trying to be of service and of solace. but have i stood for one too many times for a moment of silence on the floor of the house. >> i just wonder by picking up at least suitcases with guns in them, i would notice they were extra heavy. anyway, thank you. i like your patience with us tonight and your judgment. we'll get to this debate later. u.s. congresswoman dina titus of las vegas. still ahead, new details about the gunman himself, who he was, and what we know about his motive. boy, that's the question of the night, motive for last night's horror. those people were all alive this time yesterday. in fact, this time they were all alive and never expected this horror. they were going out to a concert. and that guy ended their lives. this one guy did it. we've got to find out why. our coverage continues after this.
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we're learning more about the suspect in last night's mass shooting. 64-year-old stephen craig paddock had been gambling significant amounts of money at las vegas's casinos over the past few weeks. today our nbc station in orlando caught up with the suspect's brother. here is what he said. >> our condolences to everyone. we just don't understand. it's like i said, an asteroid just fell out of the sky, and we have no reason, rhyme, rationale, excuse. there is just nothing. i mean, he has no criminal record. he has nothing, nothing, nothing. >> nbc news correspondent katie bank joins us from mesquite, nevada near the suspect's home. katie, thank you. what can we find out from his house? >> well, chris, we are actually in his community, which is a sleepy retirement community in
the desert. it's about 80 miles from las vegas. this is an upscale neighborhood where people largely come to relax. that's where his brother thought he was come to do when stephen paddock moved in here in 2015. what we have witnessed today is basically police executing a search warrant on his home, looking for any type of evidence, any time of clue that could solve the mystery behind the motive. why did he do it? what was the motivation? and what lies in that house that could potentially solve that for them. they have been in there throughout the day, trying to find anything that would give them those answers. late this afternoon, they finally wrapped up. and when they did come out, we learn they'd had left with 18 firearms, several thousand rounds of ammunition and explosive devices, among other things. they weren't giving us exact details on the other items that were taken out. we imagine they did some forensics on his computers, any type of communication that was on devices in that home. but we are told they have completed the execution of that
search warrant. and now they're going sift through that evidence and see if there is a motive in there somewhere. chris? >> you mean 18 weapons in addition to that almost that amount in the hotel room? is that right? >> correct. and we have also learned independently -- that is correct. we also learned independently that paddock bought several firearms from a gun store just two miles down the road from us here. the store owner told us the background checks were completed when he purchased those firearms, and he didn't see anything in paddock that would strike him as unfit to own a gun. >> well, they are ar-15s. thank you, cattie beck in mesqui mesquite, nevada. a gunman callously opened fire on thousands of people at a country music festival. in the aftermath, the big question is why did this guy do it. >> do you have any kind of motives we're looking at? >> no, ma'am. i can't get into the mind of a psychopath at this point. >> this is a classic wmd.
this is a weapon in a man of mass destruction. >> this is a crazed lunatic full of hate. we don't know much about his background. >> well, statistics we're told show the vegas gunman is 64 years old, was twice the age of the average mass shooter, whatever good that tells us. in interviews with his brother eric said that his brother was not a normal guy and frequently played high stakes video poker. we're getting kind of a disconnect there. not a normal guy and never been in any trouble. we'll see how that fixes together. i'm joined by clint van zandt, former fbi agent and msnbc contributor. clint and candice, what do you make of the combined accounts from the brother? one, sea law-abiding guy and never broke any rules, but he is not quite normal. what? how does that sound to you? >> well, to me, this guy is really an anomaly. so far we don't have any of the
indicators that we see in the past. we don't see money. we don't see health issues. we don't know about girlfriends. we know he is older than the average age. we know he lived in a retirement where he should have been drinking beer and watching baseball instead of accumulating 35 weapons. and ammonium nitrate, all you have to do is mix fuel oil and you have oklahoma city. whether this is two personalities, the one he showed his family and the rest of the world and one he kept hidden, that's still something we have to learn. >> candice, what do you make of the father? the father being on the most wanted list and described in the wanted posters as psychotic? >> well, he was described as psychopathic, which is different. basically, it's a personality disorder where someone just lax empathy. they never feel guilt or remorse for anything they do, which makes it easy for them to commit crimes and become a criminal. it's my understanding the father tried to run down a cop, which
is why he was on the ten most wanted list. >> i see. >> it does make me wonder. that happened in 1968. and offender, the shooter in las vegas was i think born in 1954-'55, what his home life was like. he is being raised by a criminal. we don't know all that much yet. in regards to the brother's contrary statements, chris, it's rare for families to come forward after something like this and say i knew something like this was going to happen. even if they did. >> boy, that's intelligent. let me get back to clint on that. what do you think? it sounds right to me. you don't want to incriminate yourself by saying i knew the guy was heading for trouble. >> well, you know, ted kaczynski's brother raised his hand and said i think there is a problem with my brother. when i was an fbi agent, i sought his father. his father was top ten most wanted fugitive.
and we were looking for guy in the 70s. when i heard that name, there was a distant bell. but again, i don't know that -- you made the comment earlier. i don't know if there is a connection there. we don't know how much influence the father had over him there is a lot of things, chris there is so much we don't know and so much we need to know. we got three things. we got a deal with the psychology of shooters, how to understand their motivation and get in front of them instead of behind them. we have to limit their access to guns. and we have to develop technology that's going help law enforcement react faster. it took an hour and five minutes. and the cops did the very best job the world can do. it still took them an hour and five minutes. what, for example, if they had a remote controlled plane, a little hand-held robol that you throw up in the air. it goes up to the 32nd floor and it says gee, there the guy is. we need to get ahead of these guys. >> yeah. >> in technology, in thinking and psychology. we can't be behind them all this
time. >> candice, what do you make of the -- i'm not calling this guy mcgyver or anything like that to make light of it. but he did have the capacity to go out and get the magazines. he had all the firepower. heed that scope. he had the tripod. he knew how to break open a window. he knew hotels don't have open windows anymore. office buildings don't either. he seemed to have the whole thing scoped out intelligently. and if he wanted to commit mass mayhem, he did it. so in terms of his effectiveness, does that tell you anything about his psychology, that he has a competence that is frightening to go with his bad psychology? >> well, it tells me something about his state of mind. for example, let's compare him to james holmes, the young colorado -- university of colorado student that went into the heater in aurore rachet. >> right. >> it turns out he was seriously mentally ill, as bad as it gets, psychotic, hearing voices,
delusional. and he did a lot of planning as well. but it certainly wasn't on the level that the las vegas shooter's planning was. one of the things that strikes me about what happened in las vegas is that this person, for 72 hours at least was able to plan things out, not apparently jump ahead. maybe he was waiting for sunday night because that was the big event. that was the end of the concert. the headliner was playing. that tells me he probably was not hearing voices, was not delusional. >> yeah. >> there is a famous or a notorious shooting back the '60s at the university of texas. charles whitman went up to the clock tower, and one by one killed 13 people before he was killed bay cop. and it turns out the autopsy revealed that he had an undiagnosed brain tumor. things like to, brain tumor, we know what chronic encephalopathy
can do. there may be something turn up in his physical and mental health that will help explain this madness. >> back then it was rarity, candice. now it's not anymore. thank you. mass shooting. clint van zandt, as always, thank you, sir, candice delong. coming up, law enforcement is being credited with saving many lives last night. we're going look at the police work that went into finding the shooter. our coverage continues after this. [bullfighting music] [burke] billy-goat ruffians. seen it. covered it. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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welcome back to "hardball." our coverage of the deadly shooting in las vegas last night. with the las vegas metropolitan police were quick to mobilize amid reports of the shoot iing last night. the challenge was determining exactly where the shots were coming from. a police scanner captured the response among law enforcement officials as they tried to locate the shooter. >> coming from upstairs in the mandalay bay. upstairs in the mandalay bay, halfway up. i've seen the shots coming from mandalay bay. halfway up. >> we have an active shooter. we have an active shooter inside. >> i'm going to form a strike team. mandalay bay and the boulevard. i need five officers on me. >> be advised. it is automatic fire, fully automatic fire from an elevated position. take cover. >> fully automatic fire. everyone is saying that now. law enforcement made their way to the 32nd floor of the mandalay bay resort, closing in on the room where gunman stephen
paddock had massacred his victims from over a thousand feet away. let's listen to the moment they breached the door with explosives. >> we're going to sit on the suspect's door. i need everybody in the hallway to be aware of it and to get back. we need to pop this and see if we get any type of response from this guy. >> on the 32nd floor, explosive breach. all units move back. >> breach, breach, breach. >> that was the explosion opening the door on the 32nd floor to where the shooter was shooting from. according to sheriff joseph lombardo, they believe he killed himself before the room was breached. he said 15 guns were found inside and chemicals commonly used in explosives were found in his car. 18 additional firearms were also found at his home in mesquite. i'm joined by shawn henry, former executive assistant of the fbi, and david shepherd, served 24 years in the fbi. he is the former executive director of security for the
venetian resort hotel and casino. darrin, you start. i want to talk about the problem with these very high-rise hotels and the difficult in this case of locating the shooterment your thoughts. >> well, of course it's a difficult and arduous task when you have a high-rise. but one of the things that alerted law enforcement to the position of the suspect was the smoke detector. he shot -- he fired so many rounds while he was in the room on the 32nd floor, the smoke detectors ignited. and that's what triggered the response to the 32nd floor. but whenever you're trying to pursue a suspect in the high-rise, and take into consideration a place like new york city, it's always a very arduous task. oftentimes you may not want to use the elevators. you may want to use the stairs to go up. but once again, you need to be in great shape to get up 32 flights of stairs to encounter that assailant in that room. >> why wouldn't you want to use the elevator? >> because a host of things. the assailant can actually stop the elevator himself.
and you don't want something like that to occur. take into consideration when ever there is a fire, you never use the elevator. fear of a malfunction with that elevator. and the same premise holds true with law enforcement responding to an assailant in a place like this. >> shawn henry, i want to ask you about this use of the fact that a smoke alarm was the indicator. which was the shooter's room. and that means it seems to me, if you want to follow that out, if they didn't have the smoke alarm, he would have kept shooting because they wouldn't have known where to find the guy for a while. >> i think they eventually would have found him. >> eventually. >> there were some reports from some of the neighboring guests about loud noises that were coming out. the officers that were out in the venue who were looking up and were reporting where they were seeing bright lights. and then from there, you count up and you count over. and you can start to triangulate on what the shooter's position was. i mean law enforcement in this case, chris, were very, very active in saving people, getting them off to a safe place, as
well as identifying where the shooter was. so that tactical team could get up, make that explosive breach, get into that room, and to eliminate or neutralize the threat. >> what do you make of a guy -- he obviously modified his semiautomatic. he turned into it a machine gun, by all the reports you. ucan hear the rat-tat-tat. he knew he could shoot four football fields away. four football fields away with some accuracy. was that the elevation that he wanted? he got the right room he wanted on the corner, which was the closest to the concert area. so much thought and calculation went into this thing, it seems to me. your thoughts. >> he absolutely had a strategic position. and the elevation provided him with that distinct advantage. i don't think there is anything to him in terms of marksmanship. i think he was trying to put as many rounds possible down range to try and inflict as much harm
as he could. those .223 rounds travel at a high velocity, and they do travel for a very long distance. i think he was trying to put as much lead down into that space to try and kill as many people as possible. and he certainly did that, chris. >> david, tell us about vegas and how this fits with your experience throughout with security for these hotels. because here you got protect people from somebody in the hotel. this isn't the usual guy stealing somebody's diamonds. this is a guy throughout with automatic weapon effectively shooting out the window. and knowing that he could break the window with a hammer, with whatever he used, a hammer-like object, whatever he had. this guy had it figured. >> he planned well from the beginning. this is something that a lot of the active shooters do. and what you're looking at is a person that wanted to do that. he planned. he looked for closest area. he planned it all out as much as he could. the security chiefs, we deal really close with the metropolitan police. we do a lot of training with them. we discuss different scenarios. we do the same thing for the
southern nevada counterterrorism fusion center to look at different type of events. and it's constantly going on. >> is there a lot of despondency about there? i'm sure there. vegas was built on people losing, not winning. everybody keeps talking back east here about how tens of thousands of dollars he lost in the last several days. my hunch is he brought those guns with him to do something with those guns. he didn't just somehow conjure up guns after he lost a few days at the gaming table. thinking wasn't -- this was a planned attack. he checked in on the 28th. so he had some time to coordinate his assault or his offensive against these individuals. but just going back to what you mentioned in terms of the aim, it was like shooting ducks in a barrel. we have 22,000 people right in front of him. it's the equivalent of throwing a bowl into the ocean. unfortunately, when you look at the weaponry that he used in this, it kind of remind me. i'm an ex-army officer. and it reminded me of my
training on the firing line. it was either a belt fed or a weapon that had a drum magazine. because there were numerous rounds that came in continuous succession. we only had three breaks. we had hundreds of rounds that were fired at these individuals. so there was no marksmanship deployed here. >> darrin, what do you make of this testimony we got from a live witness, bryan hopkins, that this guy was picking them off. they would get up. he would shout shoot them when they got up. they would get down, he would stop. he said he was shooting, he was sniepg. >> the witness or the person that shot is in the state of fear. so i can understand them looking at it from that perspective. but the truth of the matter is we just have a person firing aimlessly. he is destined to hit hundreds of people. >> okay. >> we look at three football fields. that's nothing when we look at a .223 or a .30-06 rifle. >> thank you so much. david shepherd, darrin porcher i just spoke with and shawn henry.
coming up, harrowing witness accounts continue following last night's shooting. we speak to one man who was just a few feet from the stage when the gunfire rang out. our coverage continues after this. it's called broccoli of cheddar soup.ve? i loved it, but it was like, "honey, i am way too decadent for you!" so i came up with o, that's good! a new line of comfort soups with a nutritious twist. we replaced a hunk of this... with velvety butternut squash. if i hadn't told you, you wouldn't know. comfort food that loves you back. o... mmm ...that's good!
out in this area. this was, if you can believe it, this was the staging area for police, emts, for fire crews, for everybody that was a first responder on that scene. it was completely littered with squad cars, mostly with units and guys in full riot gear and long guns going from hotel to hotel to hotel doing sweeps. as we arrived onscene, there was a crowd of people rushing our way because of the gunfire that was ensuing behind them. as we went in, we heard victim stories. as we've been hearing all day. we've been hearing about a woman that used the bodies around her to play dead, to escape the fire. we heard about a woman who hid in a bush to escape that gunfire. and people who were shepherding those folks from the scene in their cars away from the scene to safety. so tremendous stories of survival here on scene, chris. >> you're there for the scene. thank you, steve patterson with that great report in las vegas. one of the witnesses to last night's mayhem joins us by phone. buzz brainard is host of "the
highway" on xm radio. buzz, tell me about what you saw, what you felt, what you went through. >> well, we were in the artist tent, which is right off the stage. and it was our last -- our last performance of the three-day festival. and we'd been here for three days, and everybody was in a good mood celebrating. and we heard the bam bam bam bam bam. i think everybody just thought it was fireworks. and i heard that from everybody. and it happened again. people stepped out of the tent. and somebody said it might be some of the power lines above us. and then the third time we realized it was gunfire. and so we were lucky because we were in the backstage area where there was a lot of equipment and there was some tour buses. we immediately dove under the tour buses for cover. and the bullets were coming down you. could see them hitting the dirt in front of you. and the dirt would shoot up in your face. we stayed there for a while. and then security decide it was time for us all to leave. so we all got to run, everybody
backstage. and our quickest exit was right over the stage, running straight away from mandalay bay. and we joined -- we joined the masses of people that were
puerto rico tomorrow. i'm joined right now by nbc's hallie jackson at the white house. so what are the president's plans in terms of reacting to this horror? >> so i think you've seen some of it already, chris. you've seen the moment of silence. you've seen the president scramble the morning plans that he had. he was supposed to hold a deregulation event. instead he came out and delivered that speech. as you noted, calling what happened in las vegas an act of pure evil. this speech was more spiritual in tone than what we've heard from the president before. he used language about scripture, language about faith that he hasn't always talked about after moments like these. we then saw the president add to his schedule what we're watching right now, which is that moment of silence with the first lady, the vice president and the vice president's wife as well. and then sarah huckabee sanders said now is not the time to be talking about gun control, which here in washington some lawmakers, particularly democrats do want to have the conversation about. >> well, we have to wonder when we do have a conversation about it, if not now. anyway, nbc's hallie jackson at
the white house. incredible numbers injured in las vegas. officials are calling for blood donations. i'm joined now by nbc's jo ling kent who is at a blood drive in las vegas. jo ling? >> this line stretches about 150 yards. people have been standing here five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten hours. what they want to do is donate blood because the city has called for it. obviously there are 500 folks in the hospital injured who need that but what you see here is an outpouring of community support. it's a really remarkable feeling. even though this tragedy has hit las vegas so hard you, have you the public coming together in a way that a lot of people here say they've never seen before. and so as a result, you have families bringing groceries, donating food. big companies, small bake risks all coming out to make sure everyone is hydrated, that they're eating, that they're able to wait in line. and all the way around here, you see there are folks lined up, and they are all here to donate blood, chris. and they're not going to close down until they can't take
detail -- she actually had a plan on toughening this body that would prove these kinds of comforter hooked on my controversial deals. she is very knowledgeable on the subject she's a hawk on this issue. for her to pretend like i don't know what was going on stretches credulity and that's one of the reasons we need to have an investigation and really to this point, we have not had a congressional hearing on this. we have not had a grand jury as far as we know. it's just shocking to me that there has been no investigation on this whatsoever. >> tucker: just to be clear, the dots we are connecting are not very far apart. the chairman of this uranium country is also on the board of the clinton foundation and the coastline of the clintons. the podesta group lobbied on behalf of this company. am i getting these facts wrong? >> you are exactly right. here's the bottom line. as this deal was coming for approval in 2010 the clinton
foundation received from nine shareholders in this uranium company that was sold to the russians. none of them all of a sudden decided they were going to donate large amounts of money to the clinton foundation, more than 145 million. by the way, a lot of those donations were never declared publicly by the clintons, they were hidden. it stinks on so many levels. here's the other important national security implications. this deal was predicated on the fact that when the russians got control of this uranium it would not be exported out of the united states, that was part of the agreement. "the new york times" has now reported that that's not true. yellowcake from these uranium mines are being exported out of the united states and we don't even really know where they are going. that and of itself demands investigation. >> tucker: about 20% of it they've reported has gone to an unknown destination. peter schweitzer, the person who broke the story in the beginning it has been on it ever since. thank you. >> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: questions of bribery aside, why exactly did
the obama administration allow a foreign rival, russia, to control 20% of american uranium reserves? soderberg was in the to the united nation's and deputy national security advisor under president clinton and she joins us. thanks for coming on. >> my presser. >> tucker: leaving aside the questions of the doj investigation, why in the world would hillary clinton state department and the obama administration sign off on a deal that allows a rival power to control 20% of our uranium reserves? >> these business deals are ones that had review of nine different agencies and they agreed that since it was going to stay in the country that it would be an acceptable way to keep our uranium safe here and under appropriate control. i think the reporter that has been gone and yellowcake has been really disproven. i really think -- you are digging at the bottom of the barrel here. >> tucker: let me stop you there. you think it was a good idea for the obama administration to give
russia our primary adversary in the world, according to the democrats, control of parnate, 20% of our uranium? why is that a good idea? i'm sincere. why is that a good idea? >> i'm not familiar with the details of this particular uranium deal but we have traded in uranium with appropriate controls throughout the last 40 years, bipartisan, both republican and democrat governments feel that we can keep the appropriate control. the bigger issue here is this whole issue is fake news in terms of an investigation. it's been shut -- all president trump has to do is ask his current deputy attorney general and deputy head of the fbi, who looked at this and closed it in 2015. this is fake news trying to divert -- >> tucker: i'm not engaging in -- you may have that view but i'm not engaging in that. i'm asking about the policies. >> why are we talking what happened wow something that happened almost ten years ago? >> tucker: hold on. >> the russians are -- invading
in our own democracy, we should be talking with that. >> tucker: if we are as concerned about russia as you say we should be, as you just said we are to be, then why wouldn't we be concerned about the fact that according to the nuclear regulatory commission reported in "the new york times," some large percentage of this uranium in the form of yellowcake has been exported to unknown countries? what countries do think those are? switzerland? >> i have no idea. >> tucker: hold on. >> are not a government right now. >> tucker: you have no problem -- hold on. why are you concerned about that? >> look, what i'm more concerned about right now, i'm concerned about any breach of our national security. if there's a problem here we need to investigate it and look at that and that's what both residents at democrats and republicans do. what i'm more concerned about is the invasion of our democracy by that very power you are trying to go back ten years ago. what did the russians do in our investigation right now and why
are the doj -- why are the current -- what i want to know and what your show should be talking about is why are the republicans in this congress trying to cut off the investigation of russia's role in our democracy? that's real news. >> tucker: you know what, i will grant you that point. i don't care. i want to talk about the fact that uranium is being mined in the american west and is controlled by the russian government, the very one that you say poses a threat to our democracy. why shouldn't every american sat bolt upright and safe, what? how the heck did they could control that? it's not ten years ago, it's happening right now. >> the uranium is under very tight control, security. my understanding is they own some -- they own some of the company that owns it. if it's a problem that we need to have the president look into that. he's in charge right now and
president trump should look into it. >> tucker: would you upside off an ideal? knowing what you know about russia, you don't think this is insane? the country six or description, control of our uranium supply? >> this was a deal that almost ten years ago. 2010. it's almost 2018. look, no. >> tucker: that's not speculation, that's a fact. >> all of us take very seriously the control of uranium and plutonium, our stockpiles. absolutely i do. >> tucker: maria blowing past my questions, which are real? >> i've said several times these types of deals, i'm not familiar with this particular one, very, very tight control, reviewed by nine agencies, all of whom signed off. >> tucker: we don't know where the yellowcake is going. if that's been reported by "the new york times," it's not something i'm making up in the right land. why are you upset about it? >> i haven't seen that report and from what i know they have very tight controls on them.
if there's a problem than the trump administration needs to immediately look at it. >> tucker: i agree. >> what i'm concerned about is congress doing russia's bidding for trying to stop the investigation of russia's collusion in our election. why are they -- >> we have an independent counsel investigation. >> congress are trying to it -- why the republicans in congress trying to do russia's bidding and stop the investigation -- >> tucker: i'm a little upset you are going to political bumper stickers. >> you are trying to dig back in history to deflect from what's going on in today's -- what's happening right now -- >> tucker: why am i the policy person in this conversation? >> as i've said, we need to address the security of the deal that was all most ten years old and we will. the president of the united states has the power to do that. what i'm concerned about is what's happening today and russia's interference in our election. >> tucker: this is happening today, they have control right now. >> why is the republican
congress trying to cut that -- >> tucker: whatever, they have no control, it's an independent counsel investigation, they can't stop it. >> they are trying to cut the funding off. >> tucker: i'm worried about the dissemination of yellowcake, i will let our viewers to side. >> the american people need to know what happened in our election and that's the bottom line. >> tucker: all right, ambassador, thanks for joining us, appreciate it. the hollywood backlash against sexual harassment has named mike named inuit. this time amazon. details on that next. for the future. who's he? he's the green money you can spend now. what's up? gonna pay some bills, maybe buy a new tennis racket. he's got a killer backhand. when it's time to get organized for retirement, it's time to get voya. whstuff happens. old shut down cold symptoms fast
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>> tucker: : kaepernick became an icon on the left were voicing his political views and now, irony of ironies, he's going after the nfl owners for expressing their own political views. kaepernick started the trend of kneeling for the anthem. he hasn't been signed by a team in the nfl this year. he says that's because the owners, the team owners, have colluded to keep them blackballed from the league. he is now suing the nfl. does he have a case? saturdays 9:00 p.m. eastern, you already watch it but you should keep doing so. judge, this opens up a whole new list of possibilities. i would love to be in the nfl. can i sue because they haven't hired me? >> calling capper nick has a right to his opinion, but he doesn't have the right to be in the nfl. this guy is a crybaby, he's claiming he's a victim, he's claiming that this collusion in the nfl. think about this, tucker. what he has to prove in this collective bargaining claim of
collusion and conspiracy is that several teams in the nfl, or the nfl officials, and at least one team got together and said we will prevent this great football quarterback from being in the nfl because of his political views. i got news for you: they can keep you out of the nfl for whatever reason they want. they can decide they don't like you and keep you out of the nfl. you don't have a right to be in the nfl. but he's got to prove by a clear preponderance of the evidence, with evidence, that they colluded. what evidence does he have a collusion? right now he's saying that there was a political atmosphere that the president was partisan in this. : kaepernick needs to understand he took a knee and, what was it, august of 2016, when the president had not even mentioned this and he became a free agent in march of this year.
the president didn't talk about any of this until last month. he saying i'm a victim of the president and all this political partisanship, the president didn't open his mouth until a month ago. >> tucker: the claim itself is just ludicrous on common sense grounds. character is clearly not an important criteria in the nfl, they hire horrible people all the time. if it's a pure meritocracy. they hire the best football players. they have a long history of that, right? >> if you look at the rap sheets of any of these? the proportion of the guys who have been arrested. i'm not even going to go into it, but make no mistake, the domestic violence, some of the claims that we fight about, manslaughter, et cetera. what you've got with: kaepernick is a guy who, sure, he helped the 49ers get to the super bowl, but he was benched 2015 for the whole year. we don't say it because you decide you want to be a free agent and get out of your contract, now all of a sudden you have more rights than everybody else. you don't, and i don't care who your lawyer is, i don't care --
this seems to me to be a leftist agenda to bring donald trump into the issue, the president, everything is his fault, no, it isn't and you are not a victim. you are just not as good as you used to be. >> tucker: i like the argument. i've got political views are no nfl contract, i wonder if there was collusion. we've got another studio had brought down by sexual harassment allegations. roy price. a producer for the show "the man of the high castle," one of the most popular shows on amazon says that he aggressively propositioned her for sex. according to a hollywood reporter, this looks something like, a little bit like the harvey weinstein story. what does it add up to? if this evidence that weinstein is not alone? >> i think that it is more evidence that there is a culture in hollywood that allows men in positions of power to try to seduce, sexually harassed, sexually abuse young women that
this casting couch, a.k.a. casting bed, and something that is so much a part of business that they don't even talk about it. and i think that -- look, amazon is huge. you and i both know it's huge. this guy is not only accused of sexual harassment, rose mcgowan said i was raped by harvey weinstein. under federal law you are supposed to look into those allegations. in addition to that, he then got rid of i believe it was -- there was some kind of project being developed by someone who had made a claim of sexual harassment and he got rid of it. this guy, price, was a very tight with weinstein. what we need now, tucker -- look, i was a prosecutor for a long time. i did sex crimes. we need to get to the bottom of this culture in hollywood. we need to have a liaison with the national va association, talk to women in new york, in
l.a., wherever they are doing movies, motion pictures, get the motion picture association to find it if they really mean business, because this is going not just across the country, but across the globe in terms of the victimization of women who are young, vulnerable and want a career. >> tucker: i don't understand this. harvey weinstein was a big donor to planned parenthood, obviously he supports women. that's the one thing we know about hollywood, it's an empowering place. they voted overwhelmingly for hillary clinton, how could they not be on the side of women? >> this is part of the hollywood hypocrisy where do as i say, not what i do. by the way, harvey weinstein's support of women projects and programs is nothing more than a prophylactic, so to speak, for his attempt to do what he's got to do and then say i'm innocent, i love women. i love women, look at all of these issues. >> tucker: i hired lisa bloom, i'm a good person! i thought my indulgences.
it's like the medieval church. >> that's classic hollywood and the fact that so many strong women, tucker, didn't come out and say anything, they just went along with it, tells me we need an outside, independent agency to oversee what's going on in hollywood. >> tucker: [laughs] i'm sorry to laugh, the ironies are so deep. it's great to see you. judge jeanine pirro. every weekend. thank you. he probably thought the threat of president hillary clinton was dead and buried, but like a zombie, it rises once again. professor lauren of harvard has a plan to reverse the election results. joins us next to explain what it is.
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>> tucker: it's been almost a year since the 2016 election, ten months send the inauguration, but the idea of a hillary clinton presidency refuses to die. >> she going to run, please run again. there were a lot of reasons she didn't when my, including the fact that she was not what she did. >> tucker: our next guest says hillary clinton may not even have to run again, she may be appointed president. harvard professor lawrence lessig recently wrote a piece explaining that she can still become president, hillary can, without waiting for 2020. what exactly is this plan? professor lawrence lessig joins us now. next are coming on. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: i want to take this seriously because you are a harvard professor, you are smart. i know you are a sincere person. it doesn't seem like a very
democratic plan, but how exactly does hillary clinton having lost, become the president? >> i didn't like a piece predicting anything. i wrote a piece in response to a question. the question i got was, what happened if it is shown that there was a conspiracy to steal the election? what i said was -- i'm not even sure i think i believe that. there's no evidence evidence of that, not enough to actually speculate about it in public, but if that is true, if it is shown than what should happen? and i think the fundamental point that if you steal the election, you have to give it back, is something we all should be able to agree upon. i don't know why there should be much argument about that. all i was trying to explain is one of the steps that would actually happen if this was the first thing that happen? number one, if it is shown without doubt that there was a conspiracy to steal, which is different from lots of other reasons you might impeach a president. this is a very particular one, the president should resign. if the president to resign, so too share the vice president resigned, and if that happens
that under the presidential succession statute, paul ryan becomes president. that's where the hard question comes. should ryan remain president as somebody who has inherited because of this theft, or should he do what i think is actually the moral thing to do, the right thing to do, which is to correct for the theft. he could correct the theft very easily under the 25th amendment by nominating a democrat, hillary clinton, to be his vice president and then step aside. it's a speculation based on the question that was presented to me hundreds -- not hundreds of times, i'm a law professor, tens of times. >> tucker: a couple of things, when you say theft, do you mean literally theft? if it could be shown that the kremlin somehow controlled the voting machines? or is it theft in the sense in which it's used in washington now, that somehow sophisticated russian propaganda convinced a lot of right-wing mouth breathers and a couple of key
states to vote against their own interests and selecting from? which of those? propaganda? >> its actual theft. it's not just actual theft. if you show that the russians actually controlled the voting booths and flipped the election, but trumpet nothing to do with it, in the sense that you can't show it was a conspiracy, i don't think there's anything that hangs on from. the only thing i was talking about was the extreme case, the unthinkable case where there is an agreement, a conspiracy working together between a foreign government and a campaign to bring about the actual changing of votes, or something at that level, to lead to the flipping of the election. that's the hypothetical i was trying to address. >> tucker: that is so hypothetical. by the way, just for the record, if that was ever shown, i would be leading the charge against anyone who would do something -- that's totally immoral and that would be hope's aversion. >> of course, that's why i'm kind of surprised by the outrage. >> tucker: here's the thing,
that is so unlikely that it almost seemed like you were writing a piece of pornography were desperate for trump to not be president. saying this could actually happen, you know what i mean? you are rating escapist literature for unhappy lefties kind of thing. >> i'm not sure that's what i wrote. the first, the second paragraph of what i wrote, i don't know that i believe it, i certainly haven't seen clear evidence that i don't think is appropriate to speculate about whether there is clear evidence of it. but i get emails from people asking what if there was such a conspiracy? i set it up to say i'm not saying this is true, i'm just trying -- a lot of people say can we have a new election, or can the supreme court forced the electoral college to vote again? what i'm trying to say is none of those things are possible under our constitution. you can't have a new election, you can't have a new electoral college vote, all of that is fixed, there's no way to go
back. but there is this path given the way the 25th amendment works that it could actually work. again, not a prediction, not a plan. >> tucker: i get it, it's a little like saying -- i'm not seeing the israelis are behind 9/11, but just theoretically, would it be better to say using the immoral authority you have is a tenure more professor, that's not true. there's literally zero evidence that the russians got into our voting machines at any level, we look into this, it's not true and move on, wouldn't it be better to do that? >> as soon as the actual ongoing investigation of what happened is finished then yes, i think exactly what you're saying is true. but when i started the piece by saying is that there's this chatter that is coming up. it could just be conspiracy theorists, i don't know, i don't really care. again, i wasn't making a press release and coming out and trying to do some big event drawing attention to this, i was just writing a blog post in response to a question.
>> tucker: people pay attention -- you are not just writing a blog post. people pay attention to what you say because you are smart and you have this position of authority. let me ask you this thing. can you understand the perspective of the term voter looking on at this saying i voted for the car, i knew his boss, but i did it because i felt like he was better than the option -- and ever since i voted for him i've been attacked as a moral by the elites in washington, boston, new york and los angeles calling me immoral and trying to take the election are way for me and i'm offended by that? can you see that perspective? >> oh, my gosh, of course i can. it's not just seeing the perspective -- i completely understand. there's a segment of the people who voted for donald trump who were so deeply frustrated with what they perceived to be the deeply corrupted way that washington works and i'm one of those people that has been on that charge. i completely get it. i'm the first person to say i wish that all of these questions would be bracketed and put to one side, or answered at least.
in the context of this ongoing investigation i don't think it's to be placed on me that i'm answering a question about -- something that came out of the investigation. all i'm saying is here's what could happen if something came out of the investigation. >> tucker: unlikely to happen. as a nonlaw professor. >> i will support you on that, it's unlikely to happen. >> tucker: thank you. lawrence lessig. up next, you pay for illegal immigrants to go to school, college, get food stamps, housing vouchers at a whole lot more. are you ready to start paying for their abortions? that's on the table somehow all of a sudden. we will discuss, next. i was a good soldier.
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our recent online sales success seems a little... strange?nk na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?! hi bill. if that is your real name. it's william actually. hmph! affordable, fast fedex ground. >> tucker: google has appointed itself the internet sheriff against big news, adding to a long list of jobs like controlling your life in every way. google says it's valiantly guarding the innocent and the ignorant masses from lies that would lead them astray, like
voting for donald trump. that's the idea. there are some bugs in the system. earlier this week "the new york times" reported that fake news stories have persistently popped up as, believe it or not, google-driven ads on fact-checking websites. and adam pollitt affects said that melania trump was meeting the white house, a bogus story that joanna gaines was leaving her tv show. perhaps divining fact from fiction isn't google's strong after all. it's well-established at this point the left believes single person on earth has the right to enter this country are not. the avant-garde liberals are finding a new rate for illegal aliens, the right to have an abortion at taxpayer expense. kristin hawkins is president of her students for life for america. just wrote a piece about this, she joins us for night stomach tonight. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for coming on.
>> tucker: you fill in the blanks, liberals are arguing that u.s. taxpayers somehow have an obligation to fund abortion for illegal aliens? true? >> that's right. at this young girl entered our country illegally, she's from central america. she informed the government once she was apprehended that she was pregnant and that she wanted to have an abortion. not surprisingly, the aclu seized this opportunity, along with their abortion allies to mandate that taxpayers facilitate our abortion and this is just a shocking case because it shows you just how far the aclu, their friends at planned parenthood and the abortion industry want to take their extremist abortion agenda. they want to use this girl, and what they're trying to do is use or a sort of a way to internationalize roe vs. wade. declaring that she has a constitutional right to have a taxpayer-funded abortion. the last time i checked the constitution only applies to americans. >> tucker: i don't think it directly addresses whether or
not we have an obligation to pay for the abortions of illegal aliens. it almost seems like -- the left loves abortion, they think it's the key to freedom. it almost seems like it's not really all about the abortion, if the aclu and affiliated group seeing how high they can raise the middle finger in the face of middle america and say we hate you, we despise your values and we will do exactly what we want to make you pay for it whether you like it or not. >> that's right. this is something that goes against the majority of americans. majority of americans are against taxpayer-funded abortions and now they are just doing this again. they actually try to use this gross case to add onto their additional additional losses that they are already trying to stop catholic charities, one of the largest charities in our country from receiving federal grants of up to help refugees and immigrants. this is their antilife, their anti-faith agenda coming out in full force and that's what we're seeing. that's why really it so important that we have president trump there in d.c. we have a pro-life administration, a pro-life hhs,
because they are the ones trying to protect this young girl from the aclu, from planned parenthood, who are simply using her. >> tucker: i am pro-life, but you wouldn't have to be in order to find this appalling, the idea -- if some federal judge decides in fact the constitution has been hiding this obligation for 225 years, would this mean that u.s. taxpayers have an obligation to fund the abortion of anybody from around the world that comes here? >> that's right. this is setting up dangerous precedent. what this will do is tell any young, scarecrow in central america, or anywhere else in the world, come to the united states illegally or legally and we will find a taxpayer-funded abortion for you. this is dangerous stuff, especially when you consider this young girl coming from central america, who made that dangerous, life-threatening journey to cross our borders and this is the signal we will be sending out across the world. >> tucker: this is what trump is going to win back again no matter how flawed he is, normal
people look at the alternative and say you scare me because you are nuts, actually. you are hateful. >> they are extremists. >> tucker: 's that's for sure. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> tucker: that is appearing las vegas guard his back, jesus compost appeared on the ellen to generous show today, but the res about las vegas remain unanswered. you didn't think it was possible, but it has, we will fill you in after the break. shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. ♪ stare with me into the abyss ( ♪ )
last thursday, but he abruptly back out without telling anybody and disappeared. today he resurfaced, he made an appearance on the ellen degenerate show. here's part of it. they go you just want this to be over so you're talking about it now and then you're not going to talk about it again, and i don't blame you, because why relive this over and over again. it's helpful for people to understand what a hero you are, because you being shot in the leg saved so many people's lives, so we just want to celebrate you, that's why you're here today. we want to thank you for what you've done. >> tucker: how exactly does that work? is that really an interview? it turns out it could actually be a bizarre case of cross marketing by mgm resorts, that owns mandalay bay. it sponsors the ellen degenerate show and features ellen theme slot machines and many casinos, including mandalay bay. maybe that's why he did the interview. meanwhile, mgm reached out to us after reports came out
suggesting that jesus compost was using someone else's social security number. mgm company claims they verified his employment eligibility back in 2015 and it was a social security card. mark stein is an author and columnist and he joins us tonight. look, i'm not a conspiracy not at all and i'm desperately hoping the authorities will prevent me from forming my own conspiracies to explain what has become excrete singly and exportable, but it looks like that interview was managed by md that's what it but i'm on ellen show. does that give you confidence that the public is learning anything meaningful about the story? >> no, and i'm not a conspiracy not either, but you are entitled to be one on this, tucker, because whether by intention or design, nothing is proceeding normally in this case. up to the absurdity where someone says i'm only going to give one interview and i'm going
to give it to ellen to generous. >> tucker: [laughs] >> i've got nothing against -- i've got nothing against ellen. >> tucker: i don't either! >> this seems very weird choice and as you say she manages to say you are a true hero because by getting shot in the leg you saved so many lives. that's not what happened. that was the old narrative. >> tucker: exactly. >> at the old narrative was that he interrupted the gunfire, took a shot in the leg and brought the massacre to a halt. then the sheriff said, sorry, i got things the wrong way around, actually mr. compost got there before the mass shooting started and then apparently the shooter between shooting mr. compost in the lake, there was then a six minute delay before he started massacring everybody, during
which time he had a nice cup of tea, a call down to room service or whatever he did and then the hotel said that's not what happened, there's a third timeline and then everybody does the obvious and says why don't we ask mr. compost what happened and then they say suddenly, he has disappeared, he's gone now. he's off the scene, no one has seen him for a week. then he comes back and he's on the ellen to generous show. that's how conspiracy theories start and everybody is entitled to take a flyer on whatever conspiracy theory they want in this case because were, for whatever reason, mandalay bay and the ellen degenerate show have muddied the waters to total impenetrable lady now. >> tucker: i think it so nicely put because it's clear, and by the way, simply because mgm managed this interview, doesn't mean that it's an accurate, i'm not attacking mgm. but i also think it was managed, clearly it was managed. so they are under a ton of legal
pressure because the usual ambulance chasers are circling the hotel looking for payouts and so that suggests that he's under a lot of pressure to give a specific story line that may not be that useful in understanding what happened. >> there's other issues here, talker. las vegas is one of the most surveilled cities on earth, because all these big casinos resort owners want to know what people are doing in the building from every conceivable angle. even before we got the big post-9/11 security, in vegas they had cameras everywhere linked to some back office where everybody is looking at what you're doing. and what's interesting to me is that there are some's that goes on in london or paris or brussels or wherever, the brussels airport farming is a very good example. they pulled some stunned at the
brussels airport, kill a bunch of people. within 24 hours you've got the closed-circuit television picture showing the killer moving through the airport concourse. here, mandalay bay has not released any footage, any shots of the sky, the couple of pictures, event of the hotel room door are actually extremely limited. 200 rounds did indeed come through the store, that must be the best build hotel room door in the history of hotel rooms. >> tucker: exactly right. >> so, i might be wrong, there might be an explanation for tha that. he might not have been a very good shot so he was actually firing through the cheap sheet rock to the side of the door. i don't know. the fact is that mandalay bay has not done what brussels airport did in that terrorist attack. >> tucker: totally right.
>> nobody knows what this guy was doing. >> tucker: there's dishonesty in her somewhere. quickly, just to prove i'm not a conspiracy not, want to ask about the jfk assassination. 54 years ago next month, a long time ago. we are about to get as released by law, the final tranche of papers from the investigation into the murder. the cia is apparently arguing those papers should be held for another 25 years, which would bring the total up to almost 80 years that they are under wrap from public view. what could be the justification for that? >> again, you are entitled to be a conspiracy not on this one too, and it makes you wonder when donald trump in one of his more inventive moves placed ted cruz his father on the grassy knoll that day in the late stages of the presidential primary campaign. makes you wonder, it seemed a little crazy at the time and i you look at the facts.
we all know ted cruz was born in alberta, was his father operating on the instructions of the canadian government? we have some canadian deep sleeper operation going on here. >> tucker: one of my personal favorite moments. we are out of time unfortunately. more conspiracies. that was great. >> thanks a lot, talker. >> tucker: up we will wrap up with the discourse on fitness from cnn's poet laureate chris cuomo. your body was made for better things than rheumatiod arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill
for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of ra, even without methotrexate. ask your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr.
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