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Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Charlie Rose 20140119

>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> as president obama put in his letter, the world is looking to the u.s. and china to work together to solve pressing challenges. there is great potential for cultural and scientific exchanges to help us solve problems that would benefit all. >> china is one of the most important countries in the world. its relationship with the u.s. is one of the most important relationships in the world. that relationship continues to grow in size and complexity. with me is my guest. he became the ambassador to the u.s. as china's ambassador to japan, i'm very pleased to have him here at this table for the first time in running opal the number of visits to talk about this important relationship. welcome. >> thank you. >> characterize the relationship today between china and the u.s. >> in the last several years since diplomatic -- establishing diplomatic relations, our two countries have gone through many changes. he just in the world and in our own countries. fortunately, we have been able to identify growing common interest and manage what differences we may have. that enables us to develop this relationship. i think now it is more on pretenses and stronger and on a solid basis. >> talk about the promise of the relationship and how it can grow and be construct and for both countries. >> there has been discussion in both countries about the future of this relationship. there is a growing consensus that we have to add a new model of relationship that will be free of conflicts or confrontation. the focus is on cooperation, mutual understanding, it will confidence, and mutual respect. >> you were educated in the u.s. >> right. >> more people who are doubts are middle-aged were educated in the u.s. that is a generation of chinese leadership. are they different because they understand more about the u.s. because they have lived here or were educated here or both? >> we certainly have a younger generation who come here for universities or high schools. for my generation, we spent our adolescent years in the cultural revolution. we spent a lot of time in the poor, remote, rural areas. we have seen the realities of our country and what needs to be done. the challenges that we face. this is the case for our leadership, i think. actually, i think the president is an outstanding leader. this generation has the determination and the vision to build china into a modern country. >> clearly the promise is that to rate countries, two large countries with two huge economies -- two great countries, two large countries with two huge economies, khalili and opportunity to exercise power, whether in terms of economic relationships, whether it is about political hotspots like syria or iran, is that growing at all? this opportunity for china and the u.s. and europe and russia to work together on solving these big problems that are installable ball must there's more participation in a solution? -- are unsolvable unless there's more participation in a solution? >> there are so many global challenges. some are traditional, some are not so traditional. we also have a lot of hotspot issues. all of these things. it is quite obvious that the permanent members of the united nations security council and others and so on what have to work together. we have to make a joint effort in responding to these problem's. >> what great problem's -- what great powers have sometimes is misunderstanding each other. is that a race? >> -- is that a risk? >> there is always such a risk. what the advancement of technology and the media, we have a better chance of mutual understanding. >> give me an example of what is high on the agenda between president obama and the chinese president. is the idea of cyber espionage the possibility of cyber warfare? there's basically this attitude, it seems to me, you do it as much as we do it. there is this looming question of cyber espionage. >> first of all, cyber security is a new issue for both of our countries. compared with other more traditional challenges, this one is not that visible. it is everywhere. there are still no complete set of international rules governing the behavior in a space. that is where we have to concentrate efforts. develop a whole set of international rules governing the behavior of everybody and not just the state actors, but individuals and so on. that is my first point. number two, the u.s. is the most advanced country in technology. normally it is the weaker party that should be worried about the stronger party and not the other way around. china is still very much liking behind. the technology originates from the u.s.. >> clearly. the u.s. technology has been used extensively in china. china' no logical-based is growing and prospering. that kind of thing is clear. some say that there will be different attitudes about privacy and other questions as these companies grow. >> they will debate this issue in many countries should -- across the world. >> the government or aspects of the government carry out cyber espionage against the private sector in the united states and the u.s. says it does not do that. >> whether the u.s. is doing that or not is up to the u.s. government to reply. for china, if they do have evidence or complaints, if it comes to our law enforcement agencies, we handle these cases. so far, we have gotten very few input from them. >> talk about china's economic future. clearly it will have the largest economy in the world. some people 12 425 or may even come some -- some people say 1225. you have 10 cities that have a population -- some regulations of more than one million people. it is a growing population and a country of growing economic progress. do you worry that is slowing down? that you will not see 10% annual growth in your gdp? it is down to seven percent or eight percent? what happens if they go slower? >> we do need relatively high growth rate in order to sustain economic development to provide a sufficient number of jobs for the people and to improve the well-being of the people. you need all of this growth. we are not aiming at double digit growth anymore. >> you know that is a thing of the past. >> it is no longer sustainable. we are restructuring our economy to achieve a more sustainable and balanced and environmentally friendly road. >> on the issue of the environment, many people when they go to olympics and come back, i talked about pollution. your government clearly recognizes it is an issue. how would you deal with it? >> it is a big issue. everyone is complaining about it. we are also told that many have gone through this development in their own. we are trying to avoid the mistakes other countries have made. this is not easy. we are facing this challenge in a direct way. we are determined to improve the environment significantly so that people will have a better environment and economy will be on a more sustainable basis. we can no longer rely on economic growth with the resources. we have low energy efficiency. it would damage our environment here. >> and with rivers with respect to life inside, death. >> we are treating many of them. we are seeing growth in some of them. you look at the river there. it is much cleaner than a decade ago. >> what does xi jinping bring in terms of the vision for china? >> continuity. >> with the government of hu jintao? >> reform in china did not start today. and started 35 years ago. reform started dirty five years ago and we have been proceeding with reform all along in the last -- we started 35 years ago and we have been proceeding with reform all along in the last 35 years. for the new leadership, there is determination that we have to. out sweeping comprehensive reform -- we have to carry out sweeping reform. >> it raises the question of journalism and free expression. the new york times and bloomberg and others have reported activities of china's most prominent families. they say that the access and visas were restricted and they were not allowed to report. why is that and what is the status of it today? >> many of the media agencies, including the new york times and bloomberg, they are ready have a large presence in china. they are reporting development in china. my hope and not just in my capacity as chinese ambassador, but my capacity as longtime leader of the new york times, abide by the laws and the rules. >> is it against the law to report on prominent families in china? >> i think you have to abide by laws and rules in any country when you are present there. it is not just for the reporters, but for everybody, even for chinese reporters. they also have to abide by the law. chinese reporters working here in the u.s., they have to abide by u.s. laws. this is quite clear. number two, they have two base themselves on facts -- to base themselves on facts. sometimes the first paragraphs of stories -- as far as i know, some of the stories are not so much based on facts. >> wouldn't it be more constructive to simply respond to the statements that you believe were there rather than trying to close down the activities of those journalistic efforts? >> we're not closing down the activity in china. we have extended reporters' visas. >> in the case of the new york times? >> yeah. new applications have to be handled according to the rules and the laws according to due process. >> and the status of bloomberg? >> it is still operating in china. >> talk about the pacific region that you inhabit. there have been flashpoints there. how does china see its responsibility and its leadership within the region of its own presence in the pacific? >> we do not see ourselves as a leader in the region. rather we see ourselves as one of the important parts in the region. we know that regional stability will require the efforts of everybody to work with neighbors for regional prosperity. it requires the efforts of everyone. >> japan, obviously you have serious problems with the prime minister of japan going to a kind of site there. in a sense, you considered it an affront to china. how would you characterize that? >> i think the prime minister of japan -- he has challenge the outcome of [indiscernible] he went. they have 14 war criminals there. these criminals were tried and committed at the international [indiscernible] they are the people responsible for all of the war atrocities during the second world war. like chemical warfare, bacterial warfare, forcing women of other countries to be sex slaves, and mass killings of innocent civilians. by visiting the shrine, i think the prime minister is making a statement here. >> what is that political statement? >> he is denying that there were such a war atrocities. he is saying that no one should be responsible for this. i think that this is a real challenge, not only to the post war international order, but also to the international conscience. this is their outlook on history. his rightwing tendency and the steps he had taken and would like to take with regard to security to the japanese military and so on. the combination of this is a recipe for trouble. >> how should the conflict over the islands be settled? >> we believe such disputes should be handled through negotiations. >> between? >> between the countries in a dispute. if it is between china and japan, they should have a negotiation on this. the current japanese government, they do not even admit that there is such a dispute. that is a problem. >> here is what they claim. they argued that china did not even make dramatic claims until they discover that there were mineral resources on those islands. >> it we look at historical records, this has been our position that these islands are part of chinese territory. it has been our position for many years, many decades. >> the u.s. at that time flew b- 2 bombers, i think they were, but not with weapons on them. did you accept that as a responsible thing for the u.s. to do? violating a zone that you had created? >> this is another issue. you're talking about identification zone. china was not the first country. there are dozens of countries who have defense zones, including the u.s. and japan. japan set up its own zone as early as 1969. the closest point to shanghai, the biggest city of china, is only 130 kilometers. >> when i go to china and talk to people, there are some who speak to me and think that the u.s. wants to contain china. is that an opinion represented by the government of china or is that simply isolated sectors of the chinese body politic? >> as far as official statements from the u.s. government are concerned, they never say this is the official position or official policy of the u.s. in reality, i do not think the u.s. would be able to do that. >> does your government believe that u.s. has that intention to contain, even if it could not achieve it? >> i would choose to believe the official statement by the u.s. government. >> that has no -- >> they have to make continued efforts to prevent. -- prove it. >> there is a film that got on the internet that the u.s. had that kind of position and created controversy. >> china is a very open and diversified society with all schools of thought. i think it would be useful and helpful if people could express their views whether you are for them or not, agree with them or not. >> has barack obama -- i think 12 meetings with hu jintao when he was president. they had some kind of relationship. now you have a new president. xi jinping. the hope to see the same level of communication or even better between president obama and president xi jinping? >> you see high levels of contact in the communication. it is always crucial for the element. -- development. we very much want to see contact between the leaders of the country. >> one area that i think u.s. would welcome chinese help is the issue in north korea. how do you see what is going on in the country today and the dramatic views of the executions of the uncle of the president of the north korean leader? >> we see no sufficient clarity about the domestic situation. for china, this is an important issue. our national security interests are at stake. korea is one of our neighbors. we have to make sure that there is no nuclear weapons. we have to make sure that stability and peace would be maintained. we are doing our best to facilitate negotiations to address these major concerns. >> do you think they are listening to you? >> we are doing our best. it is up to others on whether they will listen to us or not. we are communicating with each other on this issue. i think this is a very good area of cooperation. >> look at the rest of the world and tell me where you think they can cooperate with china and the u.s. in a way that would be constructive for the world. >> in terms of -- >> early opportunities of cooperation. >> in terms of political stability, maybe afghanistan would be a good example. both of us want to maintain stability there and want to help the country to reconstruct. afghanistan is also one of our neighbors. this is an area in which we can work with each other. there are so many things we can do together. >> here is a conventional wisdom i hear frequently. china's primary interest is to grow, stabilize, reduced tensions internally. there is a huge, ongoing effort to turn it into a domestic domestic demand economy. it is not easy to do that. you are basically saying to the world, this is our primary focus. give us time to do that. we have to get it right. >> our responsibility is to make our country stable, prosperous, and unified. if we can do that, 1/5 of the global population would be living in a better world. that would be the biggest contribution we can make to the world. >> you have also been very savvy with respect to understanding china's needs and around the world looking out to secure contracts that would ensure a steady supply of natural resources for china. yes? >> you just said -- >> latin america. >> you just said that we have a certain number of people in china. they have legitimate aspirations for better lives. in order to do that, we need resources. we need energy. we need a lot of other things. we are also part of the international market. >> then there is this in every conversation about china. more people are coming out of poverty and into the middle class in china in the history of civilization. it is a fact of life because of the size of the population and because of how the economy has grown for more than 30 years. a remarkable achievement. it is a development of capitalism, but also a respect for markets. rec? -- correct? >> the focus on giving the market the decisive role in allocation of resources -- this market orientation of reform is clear. >> doesn't also mean that there will be less favoritism to state owned corporations? >> i do not think there has been any favoritism to state owned enterprises so far. we'll certainly address the issue of relations between the government and the markets. >> and the private sector as well. >> yes. there would be what we call a level playing field. >> and the question arises of political change and political reform. some argue that it is the ultimate fear of the leadership in china that there'll be some destabilization that would threaten the power of the party. >> i do not agree with that view. i think we have carried out a comprehensive reform in china both in economic and in the political spears. it would be impossible to imagine that all of this economic achievement would be achieved without any change in the political system. >> defined that change in the political system. >> the start of reform in china 35 years ago. a major decision was taken by the party. there was a focus that it should be shifted to economic development rather than political campaign. how can you say this is an economic decision? it is certainly a political decision. a recent decision by the committee for future reforms is a comprehensive one. we are having reform in all of the areas and not just the economy. we're focus on greater social justice. we're focused on the improvement of people's well-being. >> human rights. >> of course including human rights. it is in our constitution. it is very, -- comprehensive. it is all around. we have to move forward on all of the fronts. >> there is this fear of instability that might threaten the power of a party. the leadership of the country is provided by the party. >> if there is instability in china, it is a national interest that would maintain stability while carrying out all of the necessary reform. >> where does the country worry >> where does the country worry about creating instability? >> many incidents could lead to instability. if it would allow social injustice to grow too much, it could cause instability. that is why we are putting so much emphasis on greater social justice. >> what does social justice mean? >> people who have a better rule of law and equal access to opportunity. many things. >> there are two interesting things about china. anybody that you talk to that is proud to be chinese will ask us to respect the long tradition of china in its history as they rightly should. at the same time, they will say to me as a reporter that he expect us to move too fast. we have a change that has just begun in a significant way in the last 30 years. it took you a longer time in the dominant institutions of respect for the rights of the individual does this resonate with you? >> it is always a challenge to keep a proper balance between the tradition and the need to modernize. china is a huge country with such a huge population. it is like a big ship in the sea. you cannot make a sudden turn. you cannot change course all of a sudden. you have to make sure that you are moving forward steadily. >> when you are in the country during the cultural revolution, did you ever imagine that you would be your country's ambassador to the u.s.? >> no. it is really amazing. i think this is a small example of how the world has changed, however country has changed. i told dr. henry kissinger when he made his visit to china, -- i never imagine someday i would come here. >> and graduate and attend johns hopkins school. of international studies. >> thank you very much. all of this has made -- been made possible by the reform we have had. that is why we are all supportive of the reform. >> before i close, i want you to say how you would like to see america change. when you talk of reform, what do you talk about? >> it is a process of modernizing an ancient civilization. >> what does confucius have to do with all of this? >> he was a wise man, of course. people know his teachings and try to get some inspirations in dealing with the new challenges. >> how does he informed that in his teachings? >> i think you see people like confucius. they study a lot of philosophical issues and the relation of human beings with nation and so on -- with nature and so on. there are fundamental challenges. we could get some inspiration and wisdom from our ancestors. >> what is the hardest thing about change for china? >> you have to make sure that changes will not lead to instability. you have to make sure that the people -- if not all of them, put overwhelming majority of them will benefit from the changes. >> finally, for the u.s., what is it that you would like to see change about the u.s.? how would you like to see the u.s. involved? -- evolve? >> the u.s. is clearly the most powerful country in the world. the biggest, developed country in the world. i didn't think anyone can really catch up in the foreseeable future. i hope the u.s. will have a better understanding of china's history, culture, past, present, and maybe future. i hope the u.s. will not the so much worried about possible challenger a threat from china. we have no intention. the so-called rise of china, we have risen from our own past, is not to prevail over anyone else, and certainly not over the u.s. >> thank you for coming. pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you for the conversation. >> ambassador ciu tiankai, ambassador to the u.s. >> stay with us. >> i do not care about the surface. what i really care about is that in the navy -- infinity. they will tell us children, every minute is the minute to begin it. >> kate tempest is here. she is a british poet. she recently identified herself as a rapper. she has performed in a show that is about violence and the trail. charles isherwood writes in the new york times as tempest, gorgeous words flow out. the contrary story so vivid it's as if you had a state of the art blue ray player stuck into your brain, projecting image after image that sears itself into your consciousness. how do you like that? [laughter] that is what you said. you can catch her show in brooklyn through january 19. here is a look at the opening sequence. >> in the old days, the myths with the stories we use to explain ourselves. how can we explain the way we hate ourselves? the things we have made ourselves into? the way we break ourselves into the way we overcomplicate ourselves. we are still mystical. we are still permanently trapped somewhere between the heroic and the pitiful. that is what has made is so monstrous. it feels like we have forgotten that we are much more than the sum of all of these things. the empty skies rise where the old men sit in their desolate and friendless. the young man spits and inside outside they are reckless. these are our lessons. >> so many questions. i'm pleased to have you here. >> i'm pleased to be here. >> tell me what i am seeing in that clip. >> it is the premise of the show. it opens up the themes that we will talk about only get into the narrative. >> tell me how you created it. you were once a wrapper. >> yeah. -- rapper. >> yeah. >> do you prefer rapper to collect -- poet? >> it is a huge word. i was talking to a poet i know. other people can call you poet, but if you call yourself that -- [laughter] it is hard to identify as any one thing. i'm trying to do anything and everything. sometimes it comes out one form and sometimes in another. >> tell me about your evolution as an artist. >> i first came to writing my own stuff when i was writing rhymes. i was writing rhyme schemes. you learned in your ear. it was something very exciting and urgent. i went through years of writing raps. thought about poems. i had this vital of experience with language at first. as i became older, it became more -- >> when you created the characters were they simply coming from your own imagination or do to have someone in mind? >> i think that when you are a writer, all carried her begins in some treats from somewhere. after bp plea have known or loved or otherwise they will not stand up when you need them to. i could see that what i was doing was writing -- you want the character to have contradictions and not be all of the expected ringside characters are. -- expected things that characters are. you let them breathe without you telling them to. >> talk about the characters. talk about kevin. he knows well how to settle for less. >> yeah. [laughter] he is the kind of guy who puts up with life and doesn't expect life to give him anything other than what it has given him. he knows to make these with what he has. he is hard-working and he loves his wife even though he is aware she has been unfaithful to him. he is kind of the man who has resigned to coping. i think there is a lot of strength in that kind of man. often the jerry character, but i think there is a lot of real current and living off of that. >> and jane, his wife? >> she has fallen in love with somebody who is not her husband. she has found herself in life where it is not all of the things she thought it might the. she has fallen into this affair with her neighbor who is a kind of brute and she thinks is great for whatever reason. she find herself trapped in a climate of guilt where she has acted badly and now she has a child to raise that reminds her of this guilt. >> and brian is married to mary. >> he drinks too much and he has got a job that he doesn't love and he is not a great father to his son. he is angry and he resorts to violence and he is in loveless marriage. >> and kevin comes to realize that the child of brian and jane is not his. and secondly, has to live with it. tommy becomes a character. >> yes. he is the sign. i suppose what i was trying to do is having all of these characters present is to give the kind of feeling that you get when you're from a neighborhood or a place and you know everything about somebody's family. these stories about the affair and infidelity lead you into the story of something in his life. >> and clive? >> clive is brian's son with mary. the half-brother. they go up close, but not knowing who the other one is. >> and his first front is -- friend is slider because he is involved in a fire in a ends up with a scar on his face. >> what do you intend for the play? >> i wanted to write it because it was an idea i was working on. it became a show to show what it can do for audiences. it had nothing to do with me. >> it has everything to do with their lives. >> yeah. that is important for artists to let go of it. >> perform something for me if you will. tell us what we will experience. >> i will do the kind of introduction that we just talked about. let's focus. it's dusk on a weeknight. the kids fight. the young men whistle at the girls. this street, this road, this house. here. kevin slowly moves about. you put his plate on the table. he is about to eat. he eyes the empty chair. where is she? she is not there. kevin checks his watch and shrugs his shoulders. the photo on the mantelpiece shows them both, romantic beach excursion from the hazy past. he is smiling gently. my wife and i, he sighs. feels empty. and here we have them. this kevin and jane. jane is bored now and ready for change. kevin don't see it. don't mention your pain. let's meet their neighbors. this is mary and brian. he is sick of his life and stick of his wife. they haven't been happy in years. now jane, never knew she had a body like the forest in the rain. she heard brian say her name. and now shame is ripping through her belly and her brain. living her in pieces with the stickers to contain. lust, heavy in her hands and gut. now her blood gets hot at the thought of his touch. just one night, this can't be love. she is such a fool. she hates the thing she does. she cannot sit still. the panic, thrill, chill. she is smiling. tonight we are not wives or husbands. tonight just us, just this, just crush me, finish me tonight and love me. see him dignified and resolute, head down. a monument to the cavalry of men. see him, i strained from staying too long at her empty chair while she gets herself away and he knows it and he feels it, but can't say. >> brilliant. really is. >> tell me about learning the performance of it all. it has to do with the command of language and the pacing and inflections. it has to do with the passion in the words. >> i have come from a school of rap and rhyming instead of poems. you commit it to memory so you can go and do it anywhere with people. if i want to tell you a poem, i wanted to occur spontaneously. if you commit it to memory so well, you didn't even have to reach for the words. you can just say it. you are in a much more valuable position. i have seen and read about some of the older poets who have committed it to memory. i think it is a more exciting thing to do. you're kind of always on the edge of it. any minute, he could disappear. the same terms of trying to learn it, i just repeated it often. >> is there a technique for you to commit to memory so that you own it? >> you just have to get behind the intention of each line and remember that it leads to somewhere and that once you get on board with it, you have the responsibility and obligation to go the right way. it is a question of knowing where it will be likely to go. you know what has got to happen and how to say it. also just learning lines. >> is it difficult? >> i have never memory something this long. it is the longest piece i have ever wrote. >> did it take six months? >> i do not know good the minute you begin writing, you begin memorizing. i have the strange relationship with it. i worry if i will not be able to do it. >> tell me about your dad and what he taught you. and expense from going from labor to a man who is a criminal lawyer? >> he is a very poetic man. he plays music and paints. and paints. i'm the youngest of five children. my dad went to night school when i was two or three. he got his law degree. he has his own firm where my brother works. he taught me a lot about hard work. about providing. also about never losing the sight of the magic in things. my dad right now i'm a he blows glass. it sends me crazy poetic -- he is a great guide. -- guy. hard-working and creative. that is who he is. it is the example he has left for the children. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me. >> see kate tempest. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ >> what is it like to have customers come and tell you that your product really wasn't that great? >> there was a day when we woke up and realized we could not go any further and unless we fixed the pizza. from a quality and taste standpoint, we had a negative brand. >> we had to go out there and tell them that our old pizza sucked. >> the pizza turnaround and reinventing the core recipe was the first thing we worked and one of the last things we launched. >> it is a new domino's. it is a new era. ♪

Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Charlie Rose 20140119

>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> as president obama put in his letter, the world is looking to the u.s. and china to work together to solve pressing challenges. there is great potential for cultural and scientific exchanges to help us solve problems that would benefit all. >> china is one of the most important countries in the world. its relationship with the u.s. is one of the most important relationships in the world. that relationship continues to grow in size and complexity. with me is my guest. he became the ambassador to the u.s. he also served as china's ambassador to japan, i'm very pleased to have him here at this table for the first time in running opal the number of visits to talk about this important relationship. welcome. >> thank you. >> characterize the relationship today between china and the u.s. >> in the last several years since establishing diplomatic relations, our two countries have gone through many changes. not just in the world but in our own countries. fortunately, we have been able to identify growing common interest and manage what differences we may have. that enables us to develop this relationship. i think now it is more comprehensive and stronger and on a solid basis. >> talk about the promise of the relationship and how it can grow and be construct and for both countries. >> there has been discussion in both countries about the future of this relationship. there is a growing consensus that we have to aim at a new model of relationship that will be free of conflicts or confrontation. the focus is on cooperation, mutual understanding, it will confidence, and mutual respect. >> you were educated in the u.s. >> right. >> more people who are adults and middle-aged were educated in the u.s. that is a generation of chinese leadership. are they different because they understand more about the u.s. because they have lived here or were educated here or both? >> we certainly have a younger generation who come here for universities or high schools. for my generation, we spent our adolescent years in the cultural revolution. we spent a lot of time in the poor, remote, rural areas. we have seen the realities of our country and what needs to be done. and what are the challenges that we face. this is the case for our leadership, i think. actually, i think the president is an outstanding leader. this generation has the determination and the vision to build china into a modern country. >> clearly the promise is that two great countries, two large countries with two huge economies, have an opportunity to exercise power, whether in terms of economic relationships, whether it is about political hotspots like syria or iran, is that growing at all? this opportunity for china and the u.s. and europe and russia to work together on solving these big problems that are unsolvable unless there's more participation in a solution? >> there are so many global challenges. some are traditional, some are not so traditional. we also have a lot of hotspot issues. all of these things. it is quite obvious that the permanent members of the united nations security council and others and so on what have to work together. we have to make a joint effort in responding to these problems. >> what great powers have sometimes is misunderstanding each other. is that a risk? >> there is always such a risk. what the advancement of technology and the media, we have a better chance of mutual understanding. >> give me an example of what is high on the agenda between president obama and the chinese president. is the idea of cyber espionage the possibility of cyber warfare? in the united states, there's basically this attitude, it seems to me, you do it as much as we do it. how do you see this looming question of cyber espionage? >> first of all, cyber security is a new issue for both of our countries. compared with other more traditional challenges, this one is not that visible. it is everywhere. there are still no complete set of international rules governing the behavior in a space. -- cyberspace. that is where we have to concentrate efforts. we have to develop a whole set of international rules governing the behavior of everybody and not just the state actors, but individuals and so on. that is my first point. number two, the u.s. is the most advanced country in technology. normally, it is the weaker party that should be worried about the stronger party and not the other way around. china is still very much lagging behind. the technology originates from the u.s.. >> clearly. the u.s. technology has been used extensively in china. china's technological base is growing and prospering. that kind of thing is clear. some say that there will be different attitudes about privacy and other questions as these companies grow. >> they will debate this issue in many countries across the world. >> one charge against your country is that there are government or aspects of the government carrying out cyber espionage against the private sector in the united states and the u.s. says it does not do that. >> whether the u.s. is doing that or not is up to the u.s. government to reply. for china, if they do have evidence or complaints, if it comes to our law enforcement agencies, we handle these cases. so far, we have gotten very few input from them. >> talk about china's economic future. clearly, it will have the largest economy in the world. some people say 1225 or 1230. you have 10 cities that have a population of more than one million people. it is a growing population and a country of growing economic progress. do you worry that is slowing down? that you will not see 10% annual growth in your gdp? it is down to seven percent or eight percent? what happens if they go lower? >> we do need relatively high growth rate in order to sustain economic development to provide a sufficient number of jobs for the people and to improve the well-being of the people. you need all of this growth. we are not aiming at double digit growth anymore. >> you know that is a thing of the past? >> it is no longer sustainable. we are restructuring our economy to achieve a more sustainable and balanced and environmentally friendly growth. >> on the issue of the environment, many people when they go to olympics and come back, they talked about pollution. your government clearly recognizes it is an issue. how would you deal with it? >> it is a big issue. everyone is complaining about it. we are also told that many have gone through this development in their own. we are trying to avoid the mistakes other countries have made. this is not easy. we are facing this challenge in a direct way. we are determined to improve the environment significantly so that people will have a better environment and economy will be on a more sustainable basis. we can no longer rely on economic growth with the resources. we have low energy efficiency. it would damage our environment here. >> and your rivers with respect to life inside, are said to be close to death. >> we are treating many of them. we are seeing growth in some of them. you look at the river there. it is much cleaner than a decade ago. >> what does xi jinping bring in terms of the vision for china? >> continuity. >> with the government of hu jintao? >> reform in china did not start today. it started 35 years ago. reform started 35 years ago and we have been proceeding with reform all along in the last 35 years. for the new leadership, there is determination that we have to. we have to carry out sweeping reform. >> it raises the question of journalism and free expression. "the new york times" and bloomberg and others have reported activities of china's most prominent families. they say that the access and visas were restricted and they were not allowed to report. why is that and what is the status of it today? >> many of the media agencies, including the "new york times" and bloomberg, they are ready have a large presence in china. they are reporting development in china. my hope and not just in my capacity as chinese ambassador, but my capacity as longtime reader of "the new york times," abide by the laws and the rules. >> is it against the law to report on prominent families in china? >> i think you have to abide by laws and rules in any country when you are present there. it is not just for the reporters, but for everybody, even for chinese reporters. they also have to abide by the law. chinese reporters working here in the u.s., they have to abide by u.s. laws. this is quite clear. number two, they have to base themselves on facts. sometimes the first paragraphs of stories -- as far as i know, some of the stories are not so much based on facts. >> wouldn't it be more constructive to simply respond to the mis-statements that you believe were there rather than trying to close down the activities of those journalistic efforts? >> we're not closing down the activity in china. we have extended reporters' visas. >> in the case of "the new york times?" >> yeah. new applications have to be handled according to the rules and the laws according to due process. >> and the status of bloomberg? >> it is still operating in china. >> talk about the pacific region that you inhabit. there have been flashpoints there. how does china see its responsibility and its leadership within the region of its own presence in the pacific? >> we do not see ourselves as a leader in the region. rather we see ourselves as one of the important parts in the region. we know that regional stability will require the efforts of everybody to work with neighbors for regional prosperity. it requires the efforts of everyone. >> japan, obviously you have serious problems with the prime minister of japan going to a kind of homage to a site there. in a sense, you considered it an affront to china. how would you characterize that? >> i think the prime minister of japan -- he has challenge the outcome of the second world war. he went. they have 14 war criminals there. these criminals were tried and committed at the international war tribunal. they are the people responsible for all of the war atrocities during the second world war. like chemical warfare, bacterial warfare, forcing women of other countries to be sex slaves, and mass killings of innocent civilians. by visiting the shrine, i think the prime minister is making a statement here. >> what is that political statement? >> he is denying that there were such a war atrocities. he is saying that no one should be responsible for this. i think that this is a real challenge, not only to the post war international order, but also to the international conscience. this is their outlook on history. his rightwing tendency and the steps he had taken and would like to take with regard to security to the japanese military and so on. the combination of this is a recipe for trouble. >> how should the conflict over the islands be settled? >> we believe such disputes should be handled through negotiations. >> between? >> between the countries in a dispute. if it is between china and japan, they should have a negotiation on this. the current japanese government, they do not even admit that there is such a dispute. that is a problem. >> here is what they claim. they argued that china did not even make dramatic claims until they discover that there were mineral resources on those islands. >> if we look at historical records, this has been our position that these islands are part of chinese territory. it has been our position for many years, many decades. >> the u.s. at that time flew b- 2 bombers, i think they were, but not with weapons on them. did you accept that as a responsible thing for the u.s. to do? violating a zone that you had created? >> this is another issue. you're talking about identification zone. china was not the first country. there are dozens of countries who have defense zones, including the u.s. and japan. japan set up its own zone as early as 1969. the closest point to shanghai, the biggest city of china, is only 130 kilometers. >> when i go to china and talk to people, there are some who speak to me and think that the u.s. wants to contain china. is that an opinion represented by the government of china or is that simply isolated sectors of the chinese body politic? >> as far as official statements from the u.s. government are concerned, they never say this is the official position or official policy of the u.s. in reality, i do not think the u.s. would be able to do that. >> does your government believe that u.s. has that intention to contain, even if it could not achieve it? >> i would choose to believe the official statement by the u.s. government. >> that it has no -- >> they have to make continued efforts to prove it. >> there is a film that got on the internet that the u.s. had that kind of position and created controversy. >> china is a very open and diversified society with all schools of thought. i think it would be useful and helpful if people could express their views whether you are for them or not, agree with them or not. >> has barack obama -- had i think 12 meetings with hu jintao when he was president. they had some kind of relationship. now you have a new president. xi jinping. the hope to see the same level of communication or even better between president obama and president xi jinping? >> you see high levels of contact in the communication. it is always crucial for the development of the relationship. we very much want to see contact between the leaders of the country. >> one area that i think u.s. would welcome chinese help is the issue in north korea. how do you see what is going on in the country today and the dramatic views of the executions of the uncle of the president of the north korean leader? >> we see no sufficient clarity about the domestic situation. for china, this is an important issue. our national security interests are at stake. korea is one of our neighbors. we have to make sure that there is no nuclear weapons. we have to make sure that stability and peace would be maintained. we are doing our best to facilitate negotiations to address these major concerns. >> do you think they are listening to you? >> we are doing our best. it is up to others on whether they will listen to us or not. we are communicating with each other on this issue. i think this is a very good area of cooperation. >> look at the rest of the world and tell me where you think they can cooperate with china and the u.s. in a way that would be constructive for the world. >> in terms of -- >> early opportunities of cooperation. >> in terms of political stability, maybe afghanistan would be a good example. both of us want to maintain stability there and want to help the country to reconstruct. afghanistan is also one of our neighbors. this is an area in which we can work with each other. there are so many things we can do together. >> here is a conventional wisdom i hear frequently. china's primary interest is to grow, stabilize, reduced tensions internally. there is a huge, ongoing effort to turn it into a domestic domestic demand economy. it is not easy to do that. you are basically saying to the world, this is our primary focus. give us time to do that. we have to get it right. >> our responsibility is to make our country stable, prosperous, and unified. if we can do that, 1/5 of the global population would be living in a better world. that would be the biggest contribution we can make to the world. >> you have also been very savvy with respect to understanding china's needs and around the world looking out to secure contracts that would ensure a steady supply of natural resources for china. yes? >> you just said -- >> latin america. >> you just said that we have a 1.3 billion people in china. they have legitimate aspirations for better lives. in order to do that, we need resources. we need energy. we need a lot of other things. we are also part of the international market. >> then there is this in every conversation about china. more people are coming out of poverty and into the middle class in china in the history of civilization. it is a fact of life because of the size of the population and because of how the economy has grown for more than 30 years. a remarkable achievement. it is a development of capitalism, but also a respect for markets. correct? >> the focus on giving the market the decisive role in allocation of resources -- this market orientation of reform is clear. >> doesn't also mean that there will be less favoritism to state owned corporations? >> i do not think there has been any favoritism to state owned enterprises so far. we'll certainly address the issue of relations between the government and the markets. >> and the private sector as well. >> yes. there would be what we call a level playing field. >> and the question arises of political change and political reform. some argue that it is the ultimate fear of the leadership in china that there'll be some destabilization that would threaten the power of the party. >> i do not agree with that view. i think we have carried out a comprehensive reform in china both in economic and in the political spears. it would be impossible to imagine that all of this economic achievement would be achieved without any change in the political system. >> defined that change in the political system. >> the start of reform in china 35 years ago. a major decision was taken by the party. there was a focus that it should be shifted to economic development rather than political campaign. how can you say this is an economic decision? it is certainly a political decision. a recent decision by the committee for future reforms is a comprehensive one. we are having reform in all of the areas and not just the economy. we're focus on greater social justice. we're focused on the improvement of people's well-being. >> human rights. >> of course including human rights. it is in our constitution. it is very comprehensive. it is all around. we have to move forward on all of the fronts. >> there is this fear of instability that might threaten the power of a party. the leadership of the country is provided by the party. >> if there is instability in china, it is a national interest that would maintain stability while carrying out all of the necessary reform. >> where does the country worry about creating instability? >> many incidents could lead to instability. if it would allow social injustice to grow too much, it could cause instability. that is why we are putting so much emphasis on greater social justice. >> what does social justice mean? >> people who have a better rule of law and equal access to opportunity. many things. >> there are two interesting things about china. anybody that you talk to that is proud to be chinese will ask us to respect the long tradition of china in its history as they rightly should. at the same time, they will say to me as a reporter that he expect us to move too fast. we have a change that has just begun in a significant way in the last 30 years. it took you a longer time in the dominant institutions of respect for the rights of the individual does this resonate with you? >> it is always a challenge to keep a proper balance between the tradition and the need to modernize. china is a huge country with such a huge population. it is like a big ship in the sea. you cannot make a sudden turn. you cannot change course all of a sudden. you have to make sure that you are moving forward steadily. >> when you were in the country during the cultural revolution, did you ever imagine that you would be your country's ambassador to the u.s.? >> no. it is really amazing. i think this is a small example of how the world has changed, how our country has changed. i told dr. henry kissinger when he made his visit to china, i was working on a collective farm. i never imagine someday i would come here. >> and graduate and attend johns hopkins school. of international studies. >> thank you very much. all of this has made -- been made possible by the reform we have had. that is why we are all supportive of the reform. >> before i close, i want you to say how you would like to see america change. when you talk of reform, what do you talk about? >> it is a process of modernizing an ancient civilization. >> what does confucius have to do with all of this? >> he was a wise man, of course. people know his teachings and try to get some inspirations in dealing with the new challenges. >> how does he inform that in his teachings? >> i think you see people like confucius. they study a lot of philosophical issues and the relation of human beings with nature and so on. there are fundamental challenges. we could get some inspiration and wisdom from our ancestors. >> what is the hardest thing about change for china? >> you have to make sure that changes will not lead to instability. you have to make sure that the people -- if not all of them, put overwhelming majority of them will benefit from the changes. >> finally, for the u.s., what is it that you would like to see change about the u.s.? how would you like to see the u.s. evolve? >> the u.s. is clearly the most powerful country in the world. the biggest, developed country in the world. i didn't think anyone can really catch up in the foreseeable future. i hope the u.s. will have a better understanding of china's history, culture, past, present, and maybe future. i hope the u.s. will not the so much worried about possible challenger a threat from china. we have no intention. the so-called rise of china, we have risen from our own past, is not to prevail over anyone else, and certainly not over the u.s. >> thank you for coming. pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you for the conversation. >> ambassador ciu tiankai, ambassador to the u.s. >> stay with us. ♪ >> i do not care about the surface. what i really care about is that in the infinite. they will tell us children, every minute is the minute to begin it. >> kate tempest is here. she is a british poet. she recently identified herself as a rapper. she has performed in a show that is about violence and the trail. it is set in south london. charles isherwood writes in the new york times as tempest, gorgeous words flow out it is so vivid. the contrary story so vivid it's as if you had a state of the art blue ray player stuck into your brain, projecting image after image that sears itself into your consciousness. how do you like that? [laughter] that is what you said. that is what he said. you can catch her show in brooklyn through january 19. here is a look at the opening sequence. >> in the old days, the myths with the stories we use to explain ourselves. how can we explain the way we hate ourselves? the things we have made ourselves into? -- the way we break ourselves in two the way we overcomplicate ourselves. we are still mystical. we are still permanently trapped somewhere between the heroic and the pitiful. that is what has made is so monstrous. it feels like we have forgotten that we are much more than the sum of all of these things. the empty skies rise over the benches where the old men sit in their desolate and friendless. the young man spits and inside outside they are reckless. these are our lessons. >> so many questions. i'm pleased to have you here. >> i'm pleased to be here. >> tell me what i am seeing in that clip. >> it is the premise of the show. it opens up the themes that we will talk about only get into the narrative. >> tell me how you created it. you were once a rapper. >> yeah. >> do you prefer rapper to poet? >> it is a huge word. i was talking to a poet i know. other people can call you poet, but if you call yourself that -- [laughter] it is hard to identify as any one thing. i'm trying to do anything and everything. sometimes it comes out one form and sometimes in another. >> tell me about your evolution as an artist. >> i first came to writing my own stuff when i was writing rhymes. i was writing rhyme schemes. you learned in your ear. it was something very exciting and urgent. i went through years of writing raps. that was before i ever thought about poems. i had this vital of experience with language at first. as i became older, it became more -- serene. >> when you created the characters were they simply coming from your own imagination or do to have someone in mind? >> i think that when you are a writer, all carried her begins in some truth from somewhere. after bp plea have known or loved or otherwise they will not stand up when you need them to. i could see that what i was doing was writing the easy version-- you want the character to have contradictions and not be all of the expected ringside characters are. -- expected things that characters are. you let them breathe without you telling them to. >> talk about the characters. talk about kevin. a guy who knows well how to settle for less. >> yeah. [laughter] he is the kind of guy who puts up with life and doesn't expect life to give him anything other than what it has given him. he knows to make these with what he has. he is hard-working and he loves his wife even though he is aware she has been unfaithful to him. he is kind of the man who has resigned to coping. i think there is a lot of strength in that kind of man. often the dreary character, but i think there is a lot of real current and living off of that. courage in life like that. >> and jane, his wife? >> she has fallen in love with somebody who is not her husband. she has found herself in life where it is not all of the things she thought it might the. she has fallen into this affair with her neighbor who is a kind of brute and she thinks is great for whatever reason. she find herself trapped in a climate of guilt where she has acted badly and now she has a child to raise that reminds her of this guilt. >> and brian is married to mary. >> he drinks too much and he has got a job that he doesn't love and he is not a great father to his son. he is angry and he resorts to violence and he is in loveless marriage. >> and kevin comes to realize that the child of brian and jane is not his. and secondly, has to live with it. tommy becomes a character. >> yes. he is the sign. i suppose what i was trying to do is having all of these characters present is to give the kind of feeling that you get when you're from a neighborhood or a place and you know everything about somebody's family. these stories about the affair and infidelity lead you into the story of something in his life. >> and clive? >> clive is brian's son with mary. the half-brother. they go up close, but not knowing who the other one is. >> and his first friend is spider because he is involved in a fire in a ends up with a scar on his face. >> what do you intend for the play? >> i wanted to write it because it was an idea i was working on. it became a show to show what it can do for audiences. it had nothing to do with me. >> it has everything to do with their lives. >> yeah. that is important for artists to let go of it. >> perform something for me if you will. tell us what we will experience. >> i will do the kind of introduction that we just talked about. let's focus. it's dusk on a weeknight. the kids fight. lights. slow at the the young men whistle at the girls. this street, this road, this house. here. kevin slowly moves about. he put his plate on the table. he is about to eat. he eyes the empty chair. where is she? she is not there. kevin checks his watch and shrugs his shoulders. eggsoks back down at his soldiers. the photo on the mantelpiece shows them both, romantic beach excursion from the hazy past. he is smiling gently. my wife and i, he sighs. feels empty. and here we have them. this kevin and jane. jane is bored now and ready for change. kevin don't see it. don't mention your pain. let's meet their neighbors. this is mary and brian. he is sick of his life and stick of his wife. they haven't been happy in years. now jane, never knew she had a body like the forest in the rain. but she felt all that change when she heard brian say her name. and now shame is ripping through her belly and her brain. living her in pieces with the stickers to contain. lust, heavy in her hands and gut. now her blood gets hot at the thought of his touch. just one night, this can't be love. she is such a fool. she hates the thing she does. she cannot sit still. the panic, thrill, chill. cab.s lipstick in the she is smiling. tonight we are not wives or husbands. tonight just us, just this, just crush me, finish me tonight and love me. poor kevin. see him dignified and resolute, head down. a monument to the cavalry of men. see him, i strained from staying too long at her empty chair while she gets herself away and he knows it and he feels it, but can't say. >> brilliant. really is. >> tell me about learning the performance of it all. it has to do with the command of language and the pacing and inflections. it has to do with the passion in the words. >> i have come from a school of rap and rhyming instead of poems. -- and telling poems where you just know it. you commit it to memory so you can go and do it anywhere with people. if i want to tell you a poem, i wanted to occur spontaneously. if you commit it to memory so well, you didn't even have to reach for the words. you can just say it. you are in a much more valuable position. i have seen and read about some of the older poets who have committed it to memory. i think it is a more exciting thing to do. you're kind of always on the edge of it. any minute, it could disappear. the same terms of trying to learn it, i just repeated it often. >> is there a technique for you to commit to memory so that you own it? >> you just have to get behind the intention of each line and remember that it leads to somewhere and that once you get on board with it, you have the responsibility and obligation to go the right way. it is a question of knowing where it will be likely to go. you know what has got to happen and how to say it. also just learning lines. >> is it difficult? >> i have never memorized something this long. 70 minutes. >> 17? >> 70. >> it is the longest piece i have ever wrote. >> did it take six months? >> i do not know good the minute you begin writing, you begin memorizing. i have the strange relationship with it. i worry if i will not be able to do it. >> tell me about your dad and what he taught you. and expense from going from labor to a man who is a criminal lawyer? >> he is a very poetic man. he plays music and paints. and paints. i'm the youngest of five children. my dad went to night school when i was two or three. he got his law degree. he has his own firm where my brother works. he taught me a lot about hard work. about providing. also about never losing the sight of the magic in things. my dad right now i'm a he blows glass. he writes crazy poetic text messages. he is a great guide. guy. hard-working and creative. that is who he is. it is the example he has left for the children. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me. >> see kate tempest. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ >> the following is a paid presentation for luminess air. now there is a new way to cover your flaws. luminess air will make you look 10 years younger instantly. people ask if i got botox. they come up to me and say, your skin looks beautiful. >> i have had two people tell me it looks like i have porcelain skin. >> introducing the airbrush beauty breakthrough. luminess air is the most exciting new product in years.

Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20140117

eloquent poet and former rap artist. >> i came from a school of rap and of rhyming and telling poems where you just knew it. you put it -- you commit it to memory so that you can go anywhere and be doing it with people and so the idea of reading something from a page, it putsing? between me and you. and if i want to tell you a poem i want it to be almost occurring spontaneously. and if you commit it to memory so well that you don't even have to reach for the words it's just -- you can just mean it then i think you're in a much more valuable position as a storyteller. >> rose: china's ambassador and britain's rap poet artist when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: as president obama put in the his letter, the world is looking to the united states and china to work together to solve pressing challenges and there is great potential for athlete, cultural and scientific eck changes to help solve problem for the benefit of all. >> rose: china is one of the most important countries in the world and its relationship with the united states is one of the most important relationships in the world. that relationship continues to grow in size and complexity. with me now is cui tiankai. in april, he became china's ambassador to the united states. he previously served as vice minister of foreign affairs and as china's ambassador to japan. i am very pleased to have him here at this table for the first time in what i hope will be a number of visits to talk about this important relationship. so welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: characterize the relationship today between china and the united states. today. >> you see, in the last 35 years it seems we established different relations with each other. our two countries have gone through so much changes together. changes in the world at large and in our own countries. and fortunately we've been able to identify growing common interests, expanding our corporation and manage whatever difference we might have effectively. that enables us to develop this relationship. i think it's more comprehensive, stronger, and on a more solid basis. >> rose: let's talk about first the promise of the relationship. how it can grow and be constructive for both countries. >> there's been some discussion in both countries about the future of this relationship. and there's growing consensus that we have to aim at a kind of new model of relationship that will be free of conflict or confrontation and the focus would be on cooperation. the basis would be much better mutual understanding, mutual confidence and mutual respect. >> rose: you were educated in the united states. >> right. >> rose: more and more people who are now -- have adults and middle age were educated in the united states there's a new generation of chinese leadership. are they different because they either lived here or were educated here or both? >> well, we certainly have a younger generation who come here for universities or even for high schools. but for my generation, i think we spend our adolescent years doing the cultural revolution. >> right. >> rose: and we spent a lot of time in the poor remote rural areas i think that we have an understanding of the realities of our own country and what needs to be done. what are the challenges that we still face? and this is the case for our leadership, i think. actually, i believe president xi is an outstanding leader from this generation. so this generation has a determination and a vision to build china into a modern country. clearly the promise is -- >> rose: clearly the promise is they're two great countries, two large count wrez two huge economies that have pivotal not only economic but economic power. it's a different power, power at a different stage but clearly an opportunity to exercise power whether it is in terms of economic relationships or whether it is about political hot spots like syria, like iran. is that growing at all? this opportunity for china and the united states and europe and russia to work together solving these big problems that are insolveable unless there's more participation in the solution? >> i think that that would be in the interest of all the countries concerned and this would be the expectation from the internation community because we are confronted with so many global challenges. some of the traditional, some are not so traditional and we're also handling a lot of hot spot issues. and also nonproliferation, terrorism, all these things. and it's quite obvious that all the countries, maybe particularly the permanent members of the united nations security council and other big countries, we have to work together. we have to make joint efforts in responding to these problems. >> rose: what great powers sometimes worry about is misunderstanding each other. is that a risk? yeah, there's always such a risk. but i think that with the advancement of communication technology with the media we have a much better chance to have a better mutual understanding. >> rose: i'll give you an example. clearly high on the agenda from any conversation from the american president obama and the chinese if the xi jinping is the idea of cyber espionage, the possibility of cyber warfare and yet when you talk to people in the united states, they -- there's basically this attitude that seems to me they say will you do it as much as we do it. how do you see that big question looming question of the cyber espionage? >> well, first of all, cyber security is, indeed, a new issue for both our countries. the technology is relatively new. and compared with other more traditional challenges that one is not that visible. but it is everywhere. there's still no complete set of international rules governing the behavior of the player or the act norse cyberspace and that's where we have to concentrate our efforts. we have to develop a whole set of internation rules governing the behavior of everybody. not only the state actors but also maybe individuals and so this is my first point. number two, the united states is clearly the most advanced country with technology. so normally it should be the weaker party to be war more worried about the stronger party not the other way around. china is still very much lagging behind. a lot of technologies in cyberspace that we are use from the united states that originate from the united states. >> rose: clearly the u.s. technology has been used extensively in china, although china's technological base is growing and chinese companies are prospering and everybody's anticipateing the ali baba public offering. that kind of thing is clear. and some say that there will be different attitudes about privacy and other questions as these companies grow, do you agree. >> i think they aren't going to bet on this issue in many countries. >> rose: across the world. >> indeed. >> rose: one charge leveled against your country that the government-- or aspects of the government-- carry out cyber espionage against the private sector in the united states and the united states says it doesn't do that. well, whether the united states is doing that or not it's up to the u.s. government to give you a replay. but i think for china we have already told the u.s. government and also the american business community if they do have evidence, if they do have complaints they can come to our law enforcement agencies. but so far we have got very few interest from them. >> rose: let me talk now about china's economic future. i mean, clearly not too many years from now it will have the largest economy in the world. some people say 12, 25, some people say 1230. it will not have the largest per capita income for a while. for a long while, probably. >> for a long, long while. >> rose: and that's a crucial difference. >> yeah, that's true. but you have 150 seize that have a population of more than a million people. it's a country with a growing population and it's a country of growing economic progress. do you worry that's slowing down that you will not see 10% annual growth in your g.d.p. it's down to 7% or 8% and what happens if it goes lower? >> we do need a relatively high growth rate in order to stain economic development, to provide sufficient number of jobs for the people and to improve the well-being of the people. you need all this growth to be there. but we're not yet in double digit growth rate anymore. >> rose: you know that's a thing of the past? >> that's right. yeah. it's no longer sustainable. the restructuring of our economy has to achieve a more sustainable development. more balanced, more sustainable, more environmentally friendly growth. >> rose: on the issue of the environment, many people, as you know, when they come back from -- some when they went to the olympics and when they come back talk about pollution and your government recognizes it's an issue. >> it's an issue, yeah. >> rose: how do you deal with it. >> it's a big issue. everybody is complaining about air quality. and we are also told that many countries have gone through this period of development in their past. >> rose: in their own industrial development. >> that's right. yi. yes. we are try very hard to avoid the mistake other countries have made in the past but this is not easy. but we are now facing this challenge in a very direct way. we are determined that we'll have to improve the environment significantly so that people will have a better environment and the economy will be on a more sustainable basis. we can no longer rely on economic growth where we use a lot of resources with very low energy efficiency and damaging the environment. >> rose: and your rivers are said to be in some cases with respect to life inside close to dead. >> rose: we are treat manager of them and we're already seeing progress in some of them. in my hometown, shanghai, we look at the river there, it's much cleaner than a decade ago. >> rose: what does xi jinping bring in terms of vision for china? >> i think first of all there's a very strong continuity. >> rose: continuity? >> yeah, continuity. >> rose: with the government of hu jintao? >> you see, reform in china has not started today. it started 35 years ago. >> rose: with deng xiaoping? >> with deng xiaoping. but reform started 35 years ago and we've been proceeding with reform all along in the last 35 years ago. but now china is again at at new historic juncture. and for the new leadership i think they have already made the determination that we'll have to carry out sweeping comprehensive all around reform so that a country will move forward. >> rose: which raises the question also about journalism and free expression. as you know, the "new york times" and bloomberg and others have reported or were preparing reports on the activities of some of chinese -- china's most prominent families and it is said that their access and their visas in some cases were restricted and they're not allowed to report. in one case i think the "new york times" -- there's been some lessening of that. why is that and what's the status of it today? >> i think of many foreign media agencies-- including "new york times" and bloomberg-- they already have a large presence in china. and they are reporting development in china. but my hope is maybe not only in my capacity as a chinese ambassador but also in my capacity as a long time reader of the "new york times" first of all i hope to really abide by chinese laws and rules. >> rose: but is it against the law to report on prominent families and powerful families in china? >> i think you have to abide by the laws and rules of any country when you're operating there. it's not only for the reporters, but for everybody. even for chinese reporters they also have to abide by the law and chinese reporters working here in the u.s., they have to abide by u.s. laws. this is quite clear. and number two, they have to base themselves on facts. and, to be honest, sometimes i could read the first paragraph of their story and i would not read the rest of it because as far as i know some of the stories are not so much based on facts. >> rose: but wouldn't it be more constructive if simply you respond to the misstatements that you were were there rather than trying to close down the activities of those journalistic efforts? >> we're not closing down the activities in china. we have already extended the reporters evie a in china. >> rose: the case of the "new york times?" >> yeah. and these new applications will have to be handled according to the rules and laws with the due process. >> rose: and what's the status of bloomberg? >> i think it's still operating in china. >> rose: let me talk about the region, the pacific region you inhabit and there's been some flash points here. how does china see its responsibility and its leadership within the region of its own presence in the pacific. >> rose: we don't see ourselves as a leader in the region, rather we see ourselves as one of the important partners in the region. and we know that regional stability will require the efforts of everybody who have to work with our neighbors and regional prosperity was certainly required the efforts of everybody. >> rose: let's take them one by one. japan. obviously you have serious problems with japan going to a kind of homage to a site there because in a sense you considered, i think, an affront to china. how would you characterize that? >> i think it f.i.s. very political foundation of the relationship. >> rose: between china and japan? >> not only that. he has also challenged the outcome of the second world war because the war shrine, he went, they have 14 class" a" criminals there. these criminals were tried and convicted by the international military tribunal of the far east. they are the people responsible for all the war atrocities by japan during the second world war. like like chemical warfare, bacterial warfare, forcing women of other countries to be sex slaves and mass killing of innocent civilians. so i think prime minister abe is making a political statement. >> rose: and what is that political snaplt. >> he is denying that there were such war atrocities and he is even telling us that nobody should be responsible for these things. i think that this is a real challenge, a real challenge not only to the post-war international world but also to the international conscience. you see his outlook on history, his right wing tendency and the steps he has already taken and he would like to take with regard to security to the japanese military and so on. the combination of this is a recipe for trouble. >> rose: how should the conflict over the islands be settled? >> we believe such issues should be handled through negotiations. >> rose: between? >> between the parties concerned. it's a territorial dispute between china and japan, then china and japan should have negotiations on this. but the problem is that the kind of japanese government, they do not even admit there is such a dispute that's a problem. >> rose: and here's where what they claim, too. they argue that china did not even make dramatic claims until after they discovered that there were mineral resources on those islands. >> if you look at historical records, it's quite clear, this has been our position that these islands are part of chinese territory. it's been our position for many, many years. for many decades. >> rose: the united states at that time flew b-2 bombers, i think they were, but not with weapons on them. did you step that for a perfectly responsible thing for them to do? >> well, this is another issue. you're talking about the air defense identification. china was not the first country to set up such zones. there are dozens of countries who have already set up such zones, including the united states and japan. japan set up its own zone as early as 1969 and the closest point to shanghai is only 130 kilometers. >> rose: whatever i go to china and speak to people there are some who speak to me and think that the united states wants to contain china. is that an opinion represented by the government of china or is that simply isolated sectors of the chinese body politic. >> rose: as far as official statements from the u.s. government are concerned, is they never say this is the official position or official policy of the united states. and in reality i don't think the united states would be able to do that. >> rose: but do you believe and does your government believe the united states has that intention to contain even if it could not achieve it? >> i would choose to believe the official statement by the united states government. >> rose: that has no -- >> i think they have to be -- they have to make continued efforts to prove it. >> rose: yes. well, as you know there was a film that got on the internet suggesting somehow that the united states had that kind of position in creating some controversy. >> today's china is a very open and diversified society. there are all kinds of views, all schools of thought. i think it would be useful and helpful if people could just express the views whether you support them or not, whether you agree with them or not then after a certain kind of debate then the policy would be put on a more solid basis. >> rose: has barack obama -- i think i had maybe 12 meetings with hu jintao when he was president. they obviously had some kind of relationship now you have a new president, xi jinping. do you hope to see the same level of communication even better between president obama and president xi jinping? >> you see such high level contact in communication is always crucial for the future development of the relationship. so we would very much -- just very much want to see closer communication and contact between the leaders of the country. >> rose: one area where i think the united states would obviously welcome chinese help is having to do with north korea. how do you see what's going on in that country today and the dramatic news of the execution of the uncle of the present north korean leader. >> you see, there's no sufficient clarity about the domestic situation but for china this is a very important issue because our national security interests are at stake. because korea is one of our neighbors. >> rose: right. >> rose: so we have to make sure that there's no nuclear weapons on the peninsula. we have to make sure that stability and peace would be maintained and we are doing our best to facilitate negotiations to address these major concerns. >> rose: do you think they're listening to you? >> we are doing our best. but it's really up to others whether they will listen to us or not. and we are communicating-- china and the united states-- we are coordinating and communicating with each other on this issue and i think this is a very good area of cooperation. >> rose: look at the rest of the world and tell me where else you think they can cooperate, china and the united states, in a way it would be that would be with constructive to the world. >> well, in terms of -- >> rose: what are the opportunities for cooperation? >> well, in terms of security and the political stability, maybe afghanistan would be another example. both of us want to maintain stability there and want to help in the country to reconstruct. and afghanistan is also one of our neighbors so this is an area that we can work with each other and economically there's so many things that i will have to do together. >> rose: here is the conventional wisdom that i hear frequently. china's primary interest today is to grow, stabilize reduce tensions internally. it has a huge ongoing effort to turn its economy from an exporting economy to a domestic demand economy and it's not easy to do that when you're a country the size of china with a billion three people. it's very hard. and you're basically saying to the world "this is our primary focus. give us time to work on that because we have to get that right." >> you see, i think our biggest responsibility, our biggest international responsibility is to make our own country stable prosperous and unified eventually if we can do that, one-fifth of the global population would be living in a better world. so that would be the biggest contribution we can make to the world. >> rose: you also have been very savvy with respect to understanding china's needs around the world looking out to secure contracts that will ensure a steady supply of minerals and other natural resources for china. yes? from from africa to lalt tin america. >> you just said we have 1.3 billion people in china and we have a legitimate aspiration for a better life. like other people in other countries. in order to do that we need resources, we need energy, we need a lot of other things. and we are also part of the international marketplace. >> then there's this in every conversation about china. more supreme come out of poverty into the middle-class in china in the history of civilization. it's a fact of life, a, because of the size of the population. b, because of how the economy that's grown at 10% for more than 30 years. that's a remarkable achievement that deng xiaoping started. when you look at it, that kind of economic reform as well it is the development of state capitalism but also a respect for markets, correct? >> you see the recent decision taken by the party central committee that has focus on giving the market the decisive role in allocation of resources. so this market orientation is clear. >> rose: and does it also mean that there will be less favoritism to state-owned corporations? >> i don't think there has been any favoritism to state owned enterprises so far. but we will certainly address the issue of relations between the government and the market. >> rose: and the private sector as well? where they are competitive. >> so there would be what we call a level playing field. >> rose: then the question arises of political change and political reform. and some argue it's the ultimate fear of the leadership? china that there will become some destabilization that will threaten the power of the party. >> rose: i don't agree with the review that there there will be only economic reform in china without political reform. i think we have carried out a great economic and political spheres. it would be impossible to imagine that all this economic achievement would be there, would be achieved without any change in the political system. >> rose: but then define that change in the political system. if. >> you see, when deng xiaoping started reform in china 35 years ago a major decision was taken by the priority of the party and the government should be shifted to economic development. how can you say this is just a political decision? it's certainly a political decision. and now the recent decision by the party central committee on future reform is a comprehensive reform. we have reform in all the areas. we're in that much better commonness of the country, better rule of law. is we have the focus on greater social justice. we'll have the focus on improvement of people's welling. >> rose: human rights? >> yeah, of course, including human rights. it's in our constitution. and we're certainly -- a much better natural environment. so it's very comprehensive. it's all around. and i don't think we can achieve real flog just one of them. we have to move forward on all the fronts. >> rose: but you woulding a nooj there is this fear of instability that might threaten the power of the party because the leadership of the country provided by the party, correct? >> yeah, i think if there's any instability in china it will first of all be certain that are the daily life of ordinary chinese people. so it's the national interest that we should maintain stability while we carry out all the necessary reform. >> rose: so where do you and where does your country -- what does it worry about that might create instability? >> well, many of the things could lead to instability. >> rose: there's a tension in the fabric of society. >> rose: it would allow social injustice to grow too much. it could certainly cause instability. that's why we are putting so much emphasis on greater social justice. >> rose: what does social justice mean? >> well, people have the better rule of law, have equal access to opportunities to rights, to rules, anything. >> rose: there's two interesting things about china. neighbor you talk to who's proud to be chinese will ask us to respect the long tradition of china and its great history. as they rightly should. at the same time they will say to me as a reporter "you expect us to move too fast because we have a change that has just begun in a significant way in the last 30 years." and it took you a longer time in the development of democracy, in the development of institutions, in the development of a respect for the rights of the individual. does this resonate with yo >> you see, it's always a challenge to keep a proper balance between the tradition and the need to modernize. i think we're looking to strike the proper balance. and china is such a huge country such a huge population. it's like a big ship in the sea. you cannot make sudden turns. you cannot change cause -- course all of a sudden. you have to make sure you are moving forward steadily. >> rose: when you were in the country during the cultural revolution, did you ever imagine that you would be your country's ambassador to the united states? >> no. no. it's really amazing. i think this is a very small example of how the world has changed. hour our country has changed. i told a doctor so when he made his first secret visit to china i was working on a collective farm on the chinese/russian border. it was far, far away. i never imagined that someday i would come here, nevertheless to be the ambassador here. >> and graduate and attend johns hopkins school. international studies. fluent in english. >> well, thank you very much. but all that has been made possible by the reforms we've had. that's why we all support further reforms. >> rose: before i close, i also want to give you a chance to say what is it you respect from america and how you would like to see america change. but when you talk about reform, what are you talking about? >> maybe to put it another way, with it's a process of modernizing and changing the civilization. >> rose: what does confucius have to do with all of this? >> well, he was a wise man, of course, people are now resorting to his teachings, trying to get some inspirations in dealing with the new challenges. >> rose: and how does he inform that in his teachings? >> i think you see people like confucius they started a lot of philosophical issues like the nature of life, relations of human beings with nature and so on. so maybe today the way i face, again, with these fundamental challenges we can get wiz from our ancestors. >> rose: what's the hardest thing about change from china? >> you have to make sure that changes will not lead lead to instability. and you have to make sure that the people, if not all of them the overwhelming majority of them will benefit from the ching >> rose: finally from for the united states, what is it that you would like to see change about the united states? how would you like to see the united states evolve, the world's oldest democracy. >> rose: the united states is clearly the most powerful country in the world. the biggest developed country in the world. i don't think anybody can really catch up in the foreseeable future. i hope the united states will have a better understanding of china's history, culture, china's past, china's present and maybe china's future. and i do hope that the u.s. will not be so much worried about possible challenge or threat from china. we have no intention to threaten anybody. the so-called rise of china is a rise from our own past. it's not to prevail over anybody else. certainly not the united states. >> rose: thank you for coming. it was a pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you very much for the conversation. >> rose: ambassador cui tiankai, the ambassador of china to the united states. stay with us. >> hand i don't care about the surface! what i really care about is the infinite. the venetian that hides within it, lay down with your spirit from my elders and they will tell us children every minute is the minute to begin it. >> rose: tate tempest is here, she is a british poet who who formally identified herself as a rapper now performing in a show called "brand new ancients." it's the story of love, betrayal violence. it's set in south london. charles isherwood writes in the "new york times" "as tempest gorges words that flow it they can con injury words so vivid it's as if you had a state yard blu ray player stuffed into your brain" how'd you like that? that's what he said. >> that's what he said, yeah. >> rose: you can catch "brand new ancients" at st. anne's warehouse in brooklyn. here is a look at the opening sequence. >> in the old days the myths were the stories we used to explain ourselves. but how can we explain the wait we hate ourselves the things we've made ourselves into? the way we break ourselves in two. the way we overcomplicate ourselves. we are still mythical. we are still permanently trapped somewhere between the heroic and the pitiful. we are still godly. that's what's made us so monstrous. but it feels like we've forgotten that we are much more than the sum of all these things that belong to us. the empty skies rise over the benches where the old men sit and they are desolate and friendless. and the young men spit and inside they're delicate but outside they're reckless and i reckon these are our heroes. these are our lessons. >> rose: in m questions. i'm please pleased to have you here. >> i'm pleased to be here. >> rose: so tell me what i'm seeing in that clip. >> well, it's just the premise of the show is kind of opening up the things that we'll be talking about when we actually get into the narrative. >> and tell me about how you created it. you were once a rapper. >> i'm still a rapper. >> rose: still a rapper. exactly. but do you prefer rapper to poet? >> i think poet is a -- it's a huge word and i was talking to a poet i know and he said he said poet is a praise word. it's given to you, other people can call you a poet. call yourself a poet you are probably not a poet. >> rose: (laughs) >> it's hard to identify as any one thing because i'm trying to do everything and anything and i've got ideas that sometimes come out in one form and sometimes come out in another. >> rose: what kind of skills-- tell me about your own evolution as an artist. >> well, i first came to -- i mirs came to writing my own stuff when i was writing lines and writing rap so it was all spoken. it was heard. i was playing around with rime schemes and patterns but rather than learning them as formal structure you learn them in you're and you feel in the your mouth and it was something very exciting and urgent and i went through years of writing raps before i ever thought about writing poems or thought that i could be the kind of person that would write a poem. so i had this to i had this vital experience with language and as i've grown older it's become more serene? >> rose: isherwood said "finding the majesty and mystery in ordinary lives is precisely the aim of brand new ancients." >> hmm, yeah. >> rose: that's dead on? >> well, i think we got so lost in the everyday as we have to, we have to go to work, we have to feed our families but in the onslaught of the everyday and the kind of surface and money and cities and people and -- that we forget to see the magic in things and how important each moment can be and -- in the bigger picture, in the tiniest little things can be the most wonderful so it's to kind of remind us in the magic of all things and i hope that's what "brand new ancients" reminds the audience of. >> rose: when you created the characters, were they simply coming whole from your own imagination or did you have someone in mind? >> i think that when you're a writer all characters begin some truth from somewhere. they have to be people that you've known or loved otherwise they won't stand up when you need them to. >> rose: right. >> but they -- the first draft of these characters were lacking and i could see what i was doing was writing the easy version and what you want is for a character to have contradictions and to not be all the expected things that characters are so you go back to and revisit them and kind of let them breed without you telling them to. are. >> rose: let's talk about the characters. let's talk about kevin first. you have said about him "a god who knows well how to settle for less." >> yeah. (laughs) he's the kind of guy who puts up with life and doesn't expect life to give him anything other than what it's giving him and he knows to make piece with what he has and he's hardworking and he loves his wife even though he's aware that she's being unfaithful to him and he is kind of -- the kind of man who is resigned to coping and i think that there is a lot of sfleng that kind of man and often that kind of cast is the dreary character but i think there's a lot of real courage in living life like that. >> rose: and jane, his wife? >> jane is -- well, she's fallen in love with somebody who isn't a husband. she's found herself that at this time of life it isn't what she thought it would be and she's fallen in love with this neighbor who is a kind of brute and she thinks he's great for whatever reason and she finds herself trapped in this moment of guilt where she reacted badly and now she has a child to raise that's a reminder of the guilt she characters. >> rose: and brian is married to marry. >> brian is married to mary. he drinks too much and he's got a job that he doesn't love and he's not a great father to his son. he's angry, has great problems with violence and he's in a loveless stifling marriage. >> rose: and kevin comes to realize that brian -- that the child of brian and jane is not his and second these live with it and so tommy becomes a character. >> yes. tom smi the son. i suppose that what i was trying to do is having all of these characters present is give the kind of feeling you get when you're from a neighborhood or from a place and you know everything about somebody's family without even having to think. so you know everything about their parents, so i suppose tommy is is the main character. so these stories about the affair and the infidelity are just the kind of setup that lead you into the story of tommy. >> rose: and who is clive? >> clive is brian's son. >> with mary. >> with mary. and he is tommy's unwitting half brother and they grow up very close not knowing who the other is. >> rose: and clive's first friend is spike. >> spider. >> rose: spider i mean. >> his name is spider because he's involved in a fire that clive actually starts and he ends up with a scar on his face. >> rose: so what do we see in this shea from >> i didn't intend for the play to do anything other than -- i wanted to just write it because it was an idea i was working on. and as it's become a finished show what it can do for audience or readers kind of nothing to do with me. >> rose: it has everything to do with their lives. >> yeah. i think it's important for artists to be able to just say well, i let go of it now, this is for you if you want it and if not that's fine. >> rose: so perform something for me, if you will. some sense of -- and tell us what we are experiencing? >> i'll do the kind of introduction of explaining those characters that we've just talked about. let's focus. it's dusk on a weekday night, the kids scream and fighting the in the roud, the young men whittle at the girls get sworn at, pan out slowly, draw back, here, this street, this road, this house. here. kevin, slowly moves about. he puts his plate on the table, pour it is stout slow from the bottle and he sits, he's about to eat but first we see him eye the empty chair. where is she? she's not there. kevin checks his watch and he shrugs his shoulders and he looks back down at his egg and soldiers, the photo on the mantlepiece shows them both, romantic beach excursion from the hazy past and jane is beaming and kevin clasps her hand in his, and is beaming. my wife, he sighs, feels empty. so here we have them. this is kevin and jane. and jane is bored now and ready for change but kevin don't see it steady and plain, get on and get right tight don't mention your pain. well, let's meet their neighbors this is mary and brian and she's sick of his lies and he's sick of her crying in fact if we're being honest they're sick of the sight of each other, and there's no point in trying, they haven't been happy in years. now jane never knew she had a body like the forest in the rain but she felt all that change when she heard brian say her name and now shame is ripping through her belly and her brain leavinger in pieces with these secrets to contain. you know, lust. heavy in her hands and her guts, the trust was once there and now it's gone all crust. her marriage was robust to the point it was gathering dust but now her blood gets hot at the thought of his touch and it's no big deal right, just to say crush. this can't be love. but nights, weeks, months, it's love. she's such a fool. she tries to call a stop to it then wakes up in a fever sick for loving. she cannot sit still. she's getting changed, the panic thrill, the chill, lipstick in the cab, at the hotel bar, she's had a couple now, she's smiling, touching, tonight we are not wives or husbands, tonight just us, just this, just crush me, finish me tonight, man! love me! poor kevin. see him, dignified, resolute, head down, a monument to the cavalry of men who have never let down a friend. see him eyes strained from staring too long at her empty chair while she gives herself away and he knows it, he feels it all day but can't say. >> rose: stunningly brilliant. >> thank you. >> rose: it really is. so tell me about learning the performance of it all. which has to do with command of language, it these do with pacing and restrictions it these do with the passion and the words. >> rose: well, i came from a school of rapping and rhyming and telling poems with you just knew it. you commit it to memory so that you can go anywhere and be anywhere and be doing it with people. and so if i want to tell you a poem, i want it to be almost occurring spontaneously and if you commit it to memory so well that you don't even have to reach for the words it's just -- you can just mean it then i think you're in a much more valuable position as a storyteller. and i've seen and read about old poets who would commit their poems to memory and i think it's -- i just think it's a more exciting thing to do because you're kind of always on the edge of it. any minute you could disappear but in terms of trying to learn it i just -- i just repeated it often. >> rose: how -- is there a technique for you to commit to memory so you own it? >> you just have to get behind the intention of each line and remember that each line leads somewhere and that once you get on board with it and you grow you have an responsibility an an obligation to the right way. so it's a question of knowing where it will be likely to go. so you know -- i know how i want to say it so this is probably -- and also just -- it's just learning lines. actors do it forever. >> rose: yes. is it difficult, though? >> i've never memorized something this long so this is like 70 minutes. >> rose: 17? >> 70. >> rose: oh, i thought, 17 is too little. >> it's the longest piece that i've memorized. >> rose: did it take six months or -- >> it took -- i don't know. >> rose: it came -- >> the minute you begin writing it you begin memorizing but it's strange. i feel like a burden with it sometimes and i have this strange relationship with it where i worry that i'm not going to be able to do it but when it works it really works. >> rose: so finally tell me about your dad and what he taught you in his experience from going from a labor to a man who was a criminal lawyer. >> he's a really interesting -- he's a very poetic man and -- he plays music and he paints and he used to write plays. but for his job he used to build houses. so he was build when i was it will until the north of england. and when i was born-- i'm the youngest of five children-- my dad went to night school when i was two or three and he trained up and got his long degree and he has his own firm and my brother work there is and he taught me about providing but never losing sight of the magic in things so as you begin this interview i'm talking about how important that is. but my dad now he blows glass and he writes -- you have to see these crazy poetic text messages that you'll get out of the blue. he's a great guy and i didn't realize how unusual that was and to be hardworking and to be intellectual and to be creative but that's just who he is and hopefully it's like -- it's the example that he's left for his children anyway. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thanks for having me. >> rose: pleasure to have you here. kate tempest. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathison and susie gharib brought to you in part by -- >> the street.com is an independent source for stock market analysis. cramer's action alerts plus home service is home to his multimillion dollar portfolio. you can learn more at the street.com/nrv. deep holiday discounts hurt more than they help. can the retailer get itself back on track? 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Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20140117

eloquent poet and former rap artist. >> i came from a school of rap and of rhyming and telling poems where you just knew it. you put it -- you commit it to memory so that you can go anywhere and be doing it with people and so the idea of reading something from a page, it putsing? between me and you. and if i want to tell you a poem i want it to be almost occurring spontaneously. and if you commit it to memory so well that you don't even have to reach for the words it's just -- you can just mean it then i think you're in a much more valuable position as a storyteller. >> rose: china's ambassador and britain's rap poet artist when we continue. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: as president obama put in the his letter, the world is looking to the united states and china to work together to solve pressing challenges and there is great potential for athlete, cultural and scientific eck changes to help solve problem for the benefit of all. >> rose: china is one of the most important countries in the world and its relationship with the united states is one of the most important relationships in the world. that relationship continues to grow in size and complexity. with me now is cui tiankai. in april, he became china's ambassador to the united states. he previously served as vice minister of foreign affairs and as china's ambassador to japan. i am very pleased to have him here at this table for the first time in what i hope will be a number of visits to talk about this important relationship. so welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: characterize the relationship today between china and the united states. today. >> you see, in the last 35 years it seems we established different relations with each other. our two countries have gone through so much changes together. changes in the world at large and in our own countries. and fortunately we've been able to identify growing common interests, expanding our corporation and manage whatever difference we might have effectively. that enables us to develop this relationship. i think it's more comprehensive, stronger, and on a more solid basis. >> rose: let's talk about first the promise of the relationship. how it can grow and be constructive for both countries. >> there's been some discussion in both countries about the future of this relationship. and there's growing consensus that we have to aim at a kind of new model of relationship that will be free of conflict or confrontation and the focus would be on cooperation. the basis would be much better mutual understanding, mutual confidence and mutual respect. >> rose: you were educated in the united states. >> right. >> rose: more and more people who are now -- have adults and middle age were educated in the united states there's a new generation of chinese leadership. are they different because they either lived here or were educated here or both? >> well, we certainly have a younger generation who come here for universities or even for high schools. but for my generation, i think we spend our adolescent years doing the cultural revolution. >> right. >> rose: and we spent a lot of time in the poor remote rural areas i think that we have an understanding of the realities of our own country and what needs to be done. what are the challenges that we still face? and this is the case for our leadership, i think. actually, i believe president xi is an outstanding leader from this generation. so this generation has a determination and a vision to build china into a modern country. clearly the promise is -- >> rose: clearly the promise is they're two great countries, two large count wrez two huge economies that have pivotal not only economic but economic power. it's a different power, power at a different stage but clearly an opportunity to exercise power whether it is in terms of economic relationships or whether it is about political hot spots like syria, like iran. is that growing at all? this opportunity for china and the united states and europe and russia to work together solving these big problems that are insolveable unless there's more participation in the solution? >> i think that that would be in the interest of all the countries concerned and this would be the expectation from the internation community because we are confronted with so many global challenges. some of the traditional, some are not so traditional and we're also handling a lot of hot spot issues. and also nonproliferation, terrorism, all these things. and it's quite obvious that all the countries, maybe particularly the permanent members of the united nations security council and other big countries, we have to work together. we have to make joint efforts in responding to these problems. >> rose: what great powers sometimes worry about is misunderstanding each other. is that a risk? yeah, there's always such a risk. but i think that with the advancement of communication technology with the media we have a much better chance to have a better mutual understanding. >> rose: i'll give you an example. clearly high on the agenda from any conversation from the american president obama and the chinese if the xi jinping is the idea of cyber espionage, the possibility of cyber warfare and yet when you talk to people in the united states, they -- there's basically this attitude that seems to me they say will you do it as much as we do it. how do you see that big question looming question of the cyber espionage? >> well, first of all, cyber security is, indeed, a new issue for both our countries. the technology is relatively new. and compared with other more traditional challenges that one is not that visible. but it is everywhere. there's still no complete set of international rules governing the behavior of the player or the act norse cyberspace and that's where we have to concentrate our efforts. we have to develop a whole set of internation rules governing the behavior of everybody. not only the state actors but also maybe individuals and so this is my first point. number two, the united states is clearly the most advanced country with technology. so normally it should be the weaker party to be war more worried about the stronger party not the other way around. china is still very much lagging behind. a lot of technologies in cyberspace that we are use from the united states that originate from the united states. >> rose: clearly the u.s. technology has been used extensively in china, although china's technological base is growing and chinese companies are prospering and everybody's anticipateing the ali baba public offering. that kind of thing is clear. and some say that there will be different attitudes about privacy and other questions as these companies grow, do you agree. >> i think they aren't going to bet on this issue in many countries. >> rose: across the world. >> indeed. >> rose: one charge leveled against your country that the government-- or aspects of the government-- carry out cyber espionage against the private sector in the united states and the united states says it doesn't do that. well, whether the united states is doing that or not it's up to the u.s. government to give you a replay. but i think for china we have already told the u.s. government and also the american business community if they do have evidence, if they do have complaints they can come to our law enforcement agencies. but so far we have got very few interest from them. >> rose: let me talk now about china's economic future. i mean, clearly not too many years from now it will have the largest economy in the world. some people say 12, 25, some people say 1230. it will not have the largest per capita income for a while. for a long while, probably. >> for a long, long while. >> rose: and that's a crucial difference. >> yeah, that's true. but you have 150 seize that have a population of more than a million people. it's a country with a growing population and it's a country of growing economic progress. do you worry that's slowing down that you will not see 10% annual growth in your g.d.p. it's down to 7% or 8% and what happens if it goes lower? >> we do need a relatively high growth rate in order to stain economic development, to provide sufficient number of jobs for the people and to improve the well-being of the people. you need all this growth to be there. but we're not yet in double digit growth rate anymore. >> rose: you know that's a thing of the past? >> that's right. yeah. it's no longer sustainable. the restructuring of our economy has to achieve a more sustainable development. more balanced, more sustainable, more environmentally friendly growth. >> rose: on the issue of the environment, many people, as you know, when they come back from -- some when they went to the olympics and when they come back talk about pollution and your government recognizes it's an issue. >> it's an issue, yeah. >> rose: how do you deal with it. >> it's a big issue. everybody is complaining about air quality. and we are also told that many countries have gone through this period of development in their past. >> rose: in their own industrial development. >> that's right. yi. yes. we are try very hard to avoid the mistake other countries have made in the past but this is not easy. but we are now facing this challenge in a very direct way. we are determined that we'll have to improve the environment significantly so that people will have a better environment and the economy will be on a more sustainable basis. we can no longer rely on economic growth where we use a lot of resources with very low energy efficiency and damaging the environment. >> rose: and your rivers are said to be in some cases with respect to life inside close to dead. >> rose: we are treat manager of them and we're already seeing progress in some of them. in my hometown, shanghai, we look at the river there, it's much cleaner than a decade ago. >> rose: what does xi jinping bring in terms of vision for china? >> i think first of all there's a very strong continuity. >> rose: continuity? >> yeah, continuity. >> rose: with the government of hu jintao? >> you see, reform in china has not started today. it started 35 years ago. >> rose: with deng xiaoping? >> with deng xiaoping. but reform started 35 years ago and we've been proceeding with reform all along in the last 35 years ago. but now china is again at at new historic juncture. and for the new leadership i think they have already made the determination that we'll have to carry out sweeping comprehensive all around reform so that a country will move forward. >> rose: which raises the question also about journalism and free expression. as you know, the "new york times" and bloomberg and others have reported or were preparing reports on the activities of some of chinese -- china's most prominent families and it is said that their access and their visas in some cases were restricted and they're not allowed to report. in one case i think the "new york times" -- there's been some lessening of that. why is that and what's the status of it today? >> i think of many foreign media agencies-- including "new york times" and bloomberg-- they already have a large presence in china. and they are reporting development in china. but my hope is maybe not only in my capacity as a chinese ambassador but also in my capacity as a long time reader of the "new york times" first of all i hope to really abide by chinese laws and rules. >> rose: but is it against the law to report on prominent families and powerful families in china? >> i think you have to abide by the laws and rules of any country when you're operating there. it's not only for the reporters, but for everybody. even for chinese reporters they also have to abide by the law and chinese reporters working here in the u.s., they have to abide by u.s. laws. this is quite clear. and number two, they have to base themselves on facts. and, to be honest, sometimes i could read the first paragraph of their story and i would not read the rest of it because as far as i know some of the stories are not so much based on facts. >> rose: but wouldn't it be more constructive if simply you respond to the misstatements that you were were there rather than trying to close down the activities of those journalistic efforts? >> we're not closing down the activities in china. we have already extended the reporters evie a in china. >> rose: the case of the "new york times?" >> yeah. and these new applications will have to be handled according to the rules and laws with the due process. >> rose: and what's the status of bloomberg? >> i think it's still operating in china. >> rose: let me talk about the region, the pacific region you inhabit and there's been some flash points here. how does china see its responsibility and its leadership within the region of its own presence in the pacific. >> rose: we don't see ourselves as a leader in the region, rather we see ourselves as one of the important partners in the region. and we know that regional stability will require the efforts of everybody who have to work with our neighbors and regional prosperity was certainly required the efforts of everybody. >> rose: let's take them one by one. japan. obviously you have serious problems with japan going to a kind of homage to a site there because in a sense you considered, i think, an affront to china. how would you characterize that? >> i think it f.i.s. very political foundation of the relationship. >> rose: between china and japan? >> not only that. he has also challenged the outcome of the second world war because the war shrine, he went, they have 14 class" a" criminals there. these criminals were tried and convicted by the international military tribunal of the far east. they are the people responsible for all the war atrocities by japan during the second world war. like like chemical warfare, bacterial warfare, forcing women of other countries to be sex slaves and mass killing of innocent civilians. so i think prime minister abe is making a political statement. >> rose: and what is that political snaplt. >> he is denying that there were such war atrocities and he is even telling us that nobody should be responsible for these things. i think that this is a real challenge, a real challenge not only to the post-war international world but also to the international conscience. you see his outlook on history, his right wing tendency and the steps he has already taken and he would like to take with regard to security to the japanese military and so on. the combination of this is a recipe for trouble. >> rose: how should the conflict over the islands be settled? >> we believe such issues should be handled through negotiations. >> rose: between? >> between the parties concerned. it's a territorial dispute between china and japan, then china and japan should have negotiations on this. but the problem is that the kind of japanese government, they do not even admit there is such a dispute that's a problem. >> rose: and here's where what they claim, too. they argue that china did not even make dramatic claims until after they discovered that there were mineral resources on those islands. >> if you look at historical records, it's quite clear, this has been our position that these islands are part of chinese territory. it's been our position for many, many years. for many decades. >> rose: the united states at that time flew b-2 bombers, i think they were, but not with weapons on them. did you step that for a perfectly responsible thing for them to do? >> well, this is another issue. you're talking about the air defense identification. china was not the first country to set up such zones. there are dozens of countries who have already set up such zones, including the united states and japan. japan set up its own zone as early as 1969 and the closest point to shanghai is only 130 kilometers. >> rose: whatever i go to china and speak to people there are some who speak to me and think that the united states wants to contain china. is that an opinion represented by the government of china or is that simply isolated sectors of the chinese body politic. >> rose: as far as official statements from the u.s. government are concerned, is they never say this is the official position or official policy of the united states. and in reality i don't think the united states would be able to do that. >> rose: but do you believe and does your government believe the united states has that intention to contain even if it could not achieve it? >> i would choose to believe the official statement by the united states government. >> rose: that has no -- >> i think they have to be -- they have to make continued efforts to prove it. >> rose: yes. well, as you know there was a film that got on the internet suggesting somehow that the united states had that kind of position in creating some controversy. >> today's china is a very open and diversified society. there are all kinds of views, all schools of thought. i think it would be useful and helpful if people could just express the views whether you support them or not, whether you agree with them or not then after a certain kind of debate then the policy would be put on a more solid basis. >> rose: has barack obama -- i think i had maybe 12 meetings with hu jintao when he was president. they obviously had some kind of relationship now you have a new president, xi jinping. do you hope to see the same level of communication even better between president obama and president xi jinping? >> you see such high level contact in communication is always crucial for the future development of the relationship. so we would very much -- just very much want to see closer communication and contact between the leaders of the country. >> rose: one area where i think the united states would obviously welcome chinese help is having to do with north korea. how do you see what's going on in that country today and the dramatic news of the execution of the uncle of the present north korean leader. >> you see, there's no sufficient clarity about the domestic situation but for china this is a very important issue because our national security interests are at stake. because korea is one of our neighbors. >> rose: right. >> rose: so we have to make sure that there's no nuclear weapons on the peninsula. we have to make sure that stability and peace would be maintained and we are doing our best to facilitate negotiations to address these major concerns. >> rose: do you think they're listening to you? >> we are doing our best. but it's really up to others whether they will listen to us or not. and we are communicating-- china and the united states-- we are coordinating and communicating with each other on this issue and i think this is a very good area of cooperation. >> rose: look at the rest of the world and tell me where else you think they can cooperate, china and the united states, in a way it would be that would be with constructive to the world. >> well, in terms of -- >> rose: what are the opportunities for cooperation? >> well, in terms of security and the political stability, maybe afghanistan would be another example. both of us want to maintain stability there and want to help in the country to reconstruct. and afghanistan is also one of our neighbors so this is an area that we can work with each other and economically there's so many things that i will have to do together. >> rose: here is the conventional wisdom that i hear frequently. china's primary interest today is to grow, stabilize reduce tensions internally. it has a huge ongoing effort to turn its economy from an exporting economy to a domestic demand economy and it's not easy to do that when you're a country the size of china with a billion three people. it's very hard. and you're basically saying to the world "this is our primary focus. give us time to work on that because we have to get that right." >> you see, i think our biggest responsibility, our biggest international responsibility is to make our own country stable prosperous and unified eventually if we can do that, one-fifth of the global population would be living in a better world. so that would be the biggest contribution we can make to the world. >> rose: you also have been very savvy with respect to understanding china's needs around the world looking out to secure contracts that will ensure a steady supply of minerals and other natural resources for china. yes? from from africa to lalt tin america. >> you just said we have 1.3 billion people in china and we have a legitimate aspiration for a better life. like other people in other countries. in order to do that we need resources, we need energy, we need a lot of other things. and we are also part of the international marketplace. >> then there's this in every conversation about china. more supreme come out of poverty into the middle-class in china in the history of civilization. it's a fact of life, a, because of the size of the population. b, because of how the economy that's grown at 10% for more than 30 years. that's a remarkable achievement that deng xiaoping started. when you look at it, that kind of economic reform as well it is the development of state capitalism but also a respect for markets, correct? >> you see the recent decision taken by the party central committee that has focus on giving the market the decisive role in allocation of resources. so this market orientation is clear. >> rose: and does it also mean that there will be less favoritism to state-owned corporations? >> i don't think there has been any favoritism to state owned enterprises so far. but we will certainly address the issue of relations between the government and the market. >> rose: and the private sector as well? where they are competitive. >> so there would be what we call a level playing field. >> rose: then the question arises of political change and political reform. and some argue it's the ultimate fear of the leadership? china that there will become some destabilization that will threaten the power of the party. >> rose: i don't agree with the review that there there will be only economic reform in china without political reform. i think we have carried out a great economic and political spheres. it would be impossible to imagine that all this economic achievement would be there, would be achieved without any change in the political system. >> rose: but then define that change in the political system. if. >> you see, when deng xiaoping started reform in china 35 years ago a major decision was taken by the priority of the party and the government should be shifted to economic development. how can you say this is just a political decision? it's certainly a political decision. and now the recent decision by the party central committee on future reform is a comprehensive reform. we have reform in all the areas. we're in that much better commonness of the country, better rule of law. is we have the focus on greater social justice. we'll have the focus on improvement of people's welling. >> rose: human rights? >> yeah, of course, including human rights. it's in our constitution. and we're certainly -- a much better natural environment. so it's very comprehensive. it's all around. and i don't think we can achieve real flog just one of them. we have to move forward on all the fronts. >> rose: but you woulding a nooj there is this fear of instability that might threaten the power of the party because the leadership of the country provided by the party, correct? >> yeah, i think if there's any instability in china it will first of all be certain that are the daily life of ordinary chinese people. so it's the national interest that we should maintain stability while we carry out all the necessary reform. >> rose: so where do you and where does your country -- what does it worry about that might create instability? >> well, many of the things could lead to instability. >> rose: there's a tension in the fabric of society. >> rose: it would allow social injustice to grow too much. it could certainly cause instability. that's why we are putting so much emphasis on greater social justice. >> rose: what does social justice mean? >> well, people have the better rule of law, have equal access to opportunities to rights, to rules, anything. >> rose: there's two interesting things about china. neighbor you talk to who's proud to be chinese will ask us to respect the long tradition of china and its great history. as they rightly should. at the same time they will say to me as a reporter "you expect us to move too fast because we have a change that has just begun in a significant way in the last 30 years." and it took you a longer time in the development of democracy, in the development of institutions, in the development of a respect for the rights of the individual. does this resonate with yo >> you see, it's always a challenge to keep a proper balance between the tradition and the need to modernize. i think we're looking to strike the proper balance. and china is such a huge country such a huge population. it's like a big ship in the sea. you cannot make sudden turns. you cannot change cause -- course all of a sudden. you have to make sure you are moving forward steadily. >> rose: when you were in the country during the cultural revolution, did you ever imagine that you would be your country's ambassador to the united states? >> no. no. it's really amazing. i think this is a very small example of how the world has changed. hour our country has changed. i told a doctor so when he made his first secret visit to china i was working on a collective farm on the chinese/russian border. it was far, far away. i never imagined that someday i would come here, nevertheless to be the ambassador here. >> and graduate and attend johns hopkins school. international studies. fluent in english. >> well, thank you very much. but all that has been made possible by the reforms we've had. that's why we all support further reforms. >> rose: before i close, i also want to give you a chance to say what is it you respect from america and how you would like to see america change. but when you talk about reform, what are you talking about? >> maybe to put it another way, with it's a process of modernizing and changing the civilization. >> rose: what does confucius have to do with all of this? >> well, he was a wise man, of course, people are now resorting to his teachings, trying to get some inspirations in dealing with the new challenges. >> rose: and how does he inform that in his teachings? >> i think you see people like confucius they started a lot of philosophical issues like the nature of life, relations of human beings with nature and so on. so maybe today the way i face, again, with these fundamental challenges we can get wiz from our ancestors. >> rose: what's the hardest thing about change from china? >> you have to make sure that changes will not lead lead to instability. and you have to make sure that the people, if not all of them the overwhelming majority of them will benefit from the ching >> rose: finally from for the united states, what is it that you would like to see change about the united states? how would you like to see the united states evolve, the world's oldest democracy. >> rose: the united states is clearly the most powerful country in the world. the biggest developed country in the world. i don't think anybody can really catch up in the foreseeable future. i hope the united states will have a better understanding of china's history, culture, china's past, china's present and maybe china's future. and i do hope that the u.s. will not be so much worried about possible challenge or threat from china. we have no intention to threaten anybody. the so-called rise of china is a rise from our own past. it's not to prevail over anybody else. certainly not the united states. >> rose: thank you for coming. it was a pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you very much for the conversation. >> rose: ambassador cui tiankai, the ambassador of china to the united states. stay with us. >> hand i don't care about the surface! what i really care about is the infinite. the venetian that hides within it, lay down with your spirit from my elders and they will tell us children every minute is the minute to begin it. >> rose: tate tempest is here, she is a british poet who who formally identified herself as a rapper now performing in a show called "brand new ancients." it's the story of love, betrayal violence. it's set in south london. charles isherwood writes in the "new york times" "as tempest gorges words that flow it they can con injury words so vivid it's as if you had a state yard blu ray player stuffed into your brain" how'd you like that? that's what he said. >> that's what he said, yeah. >> rose: you can catch "brand new ancients" at st. anne's warehouse in brooklyn. here is a look at the opening sequence. >> in the old days the myths were the stories we used to explain ourselves. but how can we explain the wait we hate ourselves the things we've made ourselves into? the way we break ourselves in two. the way we overcomplicate ourselves. we are still mythical. we are still permanently trapped somewhere between the heroic and the pitiful. we are still godly. that's what's made us so monstrous. but it feels like we've forgotten that we are much more than the sum of all these things that belong to us. the empty skies rise over the benches where the old men sit and they are desolate and friendless. and the young men spit and inside they're delicate but outside they're reckless and i reckon these are our heroes. these are our lessons. >> rose: in m questions. i'm please pleased to have you here. >> i'm pleased to be here. >> rose: so tell me what i'm seeing in that clip. >> well, it's just the premise of the show is kind of opening up the things that we'll be talking about when we actually get into the narrative. >> and tell me about how you created it. you were once a rapper. >> i'm still a rapper. >> rose: still a rapper. exactly. but do you prefer rapper to poet? >> i think poet is a -- it's a huge word and i was talking to a poet i know and he said he said poet is a praise word. it's given to you, other people can call you a poet. call yourself a poet you are probably not a poet. >> rose: (laughs) >> it's hard to identify as any one thing because i'm trying to do everything and anything and i've got ideas that sometimes come out in one form and sometimes come out in another. >> rose: what kind of skills-- tell me about your own evolution as an artist. >> well, i first came to -- i mirs came to writing my own stuff when i was writing lines and writing rap so it was all spoken. it was heard. i was playing around with rime schemes and patterns but rather than learning them as formal structure you learn them in you're and you feel in the your mouth and it was something very exciting and urgent and i went through years of writing raps before i ever thought about writing poems or thought that i could be the kind of person that would write a poem. so i had this to i had this vital experience with language and as i've grown older it's become more serene? >> rose: isherwood said "finding the majesty and mystery in ordinary lives is precisely the aim of brand new ancients." >> hmm, yeah. >> rose: that's dead on? >> well, i think we got so lost in the everyday as we have to, we have to go to work, we have to feed our families but in the onslaught of the everyday and the kind of surface and money and cities and people and -- that we forget to see the magic in things and how important each moment can be and -- in the bigger picture, in the tiniest little things can be the most wonderful so it's to kind of remind us in the magic of all things and i hope that's what "brand new ancients" reminds the audience of. >> rose: when you created the characters, were they simply coming whole from your own imagination or did you have someone in mind? >> i think that when you're a writer all characters begin some truth from somewhere. they have to be people that you've known or loved otherwise they won't stand up when you need them to. >> rose: right. >> but they -- the first draft of these characters were lacking and i could see what i was doing was writing the easy version and what you want is for a character to have contradictions and to not be all the expected things that characters are so you go back to and revisit them and kind of let them breed without you telling them to. are. >> rose: let's talk about the characters. let's talk about kevin first. you have said about him "a god who knows well how to settle for less." >> yeah. (laughs) he's the kind of guy who puts up with life and doesn't expect life to give him anything other than what it's giving him and he knows to make piece with what he has and he's hardworking and he loves his wife even though he's aware that she's being unfaithful to him and he is kind of -- the kind of man who is resigned to coping and i think that there is a lot of sfleng that kind of man and often that kind of cast is the dreary character but i think there's a lot of real courage in living life like that. >> rose: and jane, his wife? >> jane is -- well, she's fallen in love with somebody who isn't a husband. she's found herself that at this time of life it isn't what she thought it would be and she's fallen in love with this neighbor who is a kind of brute and she thinks he's great for whatever reason and she finds herself trapped in this moment of guilt where she reacted badly and now she has a child to raise that's a reminder of the guilt she characters. >> rose: and brian is married to marry. >> brian is married to mary. he drinks too much and he's got a job that he doesn't love and he's not a great father to his son. he's angry, has great problems with violence and he's in a loveless stifling marriage. >> rose: and kevin comes to realize that brian -- that the child of brian and jane is not his and second these live with it and so tommy becomes a character. >> yes. tom smi the son. i suppose that what i was trying to do is having all of these characters present is give the kind of feeling you get when you're from a neighborhood or from a place and you know everything about somebody's family without even having to think. so you know everything about their parents, so i suppose tommy is is the main character. so these stories about the affair and the infidelity are just the kind of setup that lead you into the story of tommy. >> rose: and who is clive? >> clive is brian's son. >> with mary. >> with mary. and he is tommy's unwitting half brother and they grow up very close not knowing who the other is. >> rose: and clive's first friend is spike. >> spider. >> rose: spider i mean. >> his name is spider because he's involved in a fire that clive actually starts and he ends up with a scar on his face. >> rose: so what do we see in this shea from >> i didn't intend for the play to do anything other than -- i wanted to just write it because it was an idea i was working on. and as it's become a finished show what it can do for audience or readers kind of nothing to do with me. >> rose: it has everything to do with their lives. >> yeah. i think it's important for artists to be able to just say well, i let go of it now, this is for you if you want it and if not that's fine. >> rose: so perform something for me, if you will. some sense of -- and tell us what we are experiencing? >> i'll do the kind of introduction of explaining those characters that we've just talked about. let's focus. it's dusk on a weekday night, the kids scream and fighting the in the roud, the young men whittle at the girls get sworn at, pan out slowly, draw back, here, this street, this road, this house. here. kevin, slowly moves about. he puts his plate on the table, pour it is stout slow from the bottle and he sits, he's about to eat but first we see him eye the empty chair. where is she? she's not there. kevin checks his watch and he shrugs his shoulders and he looks back down at his egg and soldiers, the photo on the mantlepiece shows them both, romantic beach excursion from the hazy past and jane is beaming and kevin clasps her hand in his, and is beaming. my wife, he sighs, feels empty. so here we have them. this is kevin and jane. and jane is bored now and ready for change but kevin don't see it steady and plain, get on and get right tight don't mention your pain. well, let's meet their neighbors this is mary and brian and she's sick of his lies and he's sick of her crying in fact if we're being honest they're sick of the sight of each other, and there's no point in trying, they haven't been happy in years. now jane never knew she had a body like the forest in the rain but she felt all that change when she heard brian say her name and now shame is ripping through her belly and her brain leavinger in pieces with these secrets to contain. you know, lust. heavy in her hands and her guts, the trust was once there and now it's gone all crust. her marriage was robust to the point it was gathering dust but now her blood gets hot at the thought of his touch and it's no big deal right, just to say crush. this can't be love. but nights, weeks, months, it's love. she's such a fool. she tries to call a stop to it then wakes up in a fever sick for loving. she cannot sit still. she's getting changed, the panic thrill, the chill, lipstick in the cab, at the hotel bar, she's had a couple now, she's smiling, touching, tonight we are not wives or husbands, tonight just us, just this, just crush me, finish me tonight, man! love me! poor kevin. see him, dignified, resolute, head down, a monument to the cavalry of men who have never let down a friend. see him eyes strained from staring too long at her empty chair while she gives herself away and he knows it, he feels it all day but can't say. >> rose: stunningly brilliant. >> thank you. >> rose: it really is. so tell me about learning the performance of it all. which has to do with command of language, it these do with pacing and restrictions it these do with the passion and the words. >> rose: well, i came from a school of rapping and rhyming and telling poems with you just knew it. you commit it to memory so that you can go anywhere and be anywhere and be doing it with people. and so if i want to tell you a poem, i want it to be almost occurring spontaneously and if you commit it to memory so well that you don't even have to reach for the words it's just -- you can just mean it then i think you're in a much more valuable position as a storyteller. and i've seen and read about old poets who would commit their poems to memory and i think it's -- i just think it's a more exciting thing to do because you're kind of always on the edge of it. any minute you could disappear but in terms of trying to learn it i just -- i just repeated it often. >> rose: how -- is there a technique for you to commit to memory so you own it? >> you just have to get behind the intention of each line and remember that each line leads somewhere and that once you get on board with it and you grow you have an responsibility an an obligation to the right way. so it's a question of knowing where it will be likely to go. so you know -- i know how i want to say it so this is probably -- and also just -- it's just learning lines. actors do it forever. >> rose: yes. is it difficult, though? >> i've never memorized something this long so this is like 70 minutes. >> rose: 17? >> 70. >> rose: oh, i thought, 17 is too little. >> it's the longest piece that i've memorized. >> rose: did it take six months or -- >> it took -- i don't know. >> rose: it came -- >> the minute you begin writing it you begin memorizing but it's strange. i feel like a burden with it sometimes and i have this strange relationship with it where i worry that i'm not going to be able to do it but when it works it really works. >> rose: so finally tell me about your dad and what he taught you in his experience from going from a labor to a man who was a criminal lawyer. >> he's a really interesting -- he's a very poetic man and -- he plays music and he paints and he used to write plays. but for his job he used to build houses. so he was build when i was it will until the north of england. and when i was born-- i'm the youngest of five children-- my dad went to night school when i was two or three and he trained up and got his long degree and he has his own firm and my brother work there is and he taught me about providing but never losing sight of the magic in things so as you begin this interview i'm talking about how important that is. but my dad now he blows glass and he writes -- you have to see these crazy poetic text messages that you'll get out of the blue. he's a great guy and i didn't realize how unusual that was and to be hardworking and to be intellectual and to be creative but that's just who he is and hopefully it's like -- it's the example that he's left for his children anyway. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thanks for having me. >> rose: pleasure to have you here. kate tempest. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org  ♪ and their buns are something i have yet to find anywhere else. >> i'm not inviting you to my house for dinner. >> breaded and fried and gooey and lovely. >> in the words of arnold schwarzenegger, i'll be back! >> you've heard of connoisseur. i'm a common-sewer! >> they knew i had to ward off some vampires or something.

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