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and a battle for the delegates, how many more does donald trump need to secure a victory. is it possible? bill clinton's roll in the campaign, new reaction to an encounter the former president had with black lives matter protesters. >> i know those young people yesterday were just trying to get good television, and they did. but that doesn't mean that i was most effective in answering it. it's all about getting good television right here on msnbc. the place for politics. >> the big news today, ted cruz wins colorado. the texas senator picked up a majority of that state's delegates during the party's state convention in colorado springs. cruz got 21 of the 37 delegates. he has a chance to get 13 more bound delegates at the convention today. cruz is now 224 delegates behind donald trump. later today, cruz will deliver a speech at the colorado convention and travel to las vegas to address the republican jewish coalition. john kasich has three events in new york, one of them is this town hall which is under way right now in rochester. on the democrat side, voters in wisconsin are caucusing today, 14 of that state's -- 18 delegates are up for grabs. but with 10 days until the new york primary, hillary clinton and bernie sanders will once again be crisscrossing the state. clinton has one event in brooklyn, sanders has four events in new york city including one at the apollo theater in harlem. earlier this morning, sanders had this to say about the fight for the democratic nomination. >> if you're just looking at the issues objectively, what you'll find is that we are the strongest democratic campaign to defeat some right wing republicans. i think the reason is we are doing something very unusual in this campaign. we are telling the truth. we are bringing you several reports across this country. nbc's jacob soboroff, kasie hunt in new york following bernie sanders. but we begin with kristen dalghren in wyoming following the caucus for the democrats. kristen is in cheyenne and caucusing begins just about an hour or so from now, so are people still coming in? if so, what are they telling you? >> they are alex. as you can hear it's getting loud in the gym because look at the clourowds that have gathere here. we have bernie supporters on one side of the gym, hillary supporters on this side and those bleachers almost completely full. they're expecting it could be record turnout today. chris muth is a hillary supporter here with her daughter heather. a caucus takes a lot of time. it's a beautiful day out there. what made you want to come out and spend three, four hours here? >> i just am so excited to be part of the process today. i'm excited to support hillary and i've been helping with some volunteer work and it's just an exciting electric atmosphere. >> and what is it about senator clinton that makes you want to support her over senator sanders? >> i think it's her experience. i think she'll go into the job day one and be ready to go. i like her women's rights views, her environmental views. i just think she's the perfect woman for the job. >> and your daughter heather just decided this week to support hillary. what was it that made the change for you? >> i just -- i resonate with her. she has was it takes to make this country a better country. >> great, thank you guys so much. a lot of guys excited, the hillary supporters, a lot of excited sanders supporters as well. robin richie, you're supporting bernie. you were on the phone calling people to get them to come out. what were you telling them. >> i was telling them i was for bernie 2016, i was a volunteer and that we needed their support to get out here. >> did you get anyone that said "i'm going to come down here"? >> i did. we got last-minute people but they're coming. >> how happy are you with the turnout you see in the crowd here? >> it's fantastic. i couldn't ask for more. >> and what is it about bernie that has you so excited? >> his stance on health care, the environment, absolutely everything, education, i agree with the man on every issue. >> great. well, good luck today, a lot of passionate people out here. like you said, alex, about another hour until the caucus begins so we'll continue to keep you updated throughout the day. >> i know you will. we thank you for doing that, kristen dalghren, you and your guest. let's turn to the republican race and the fight for the remaining 13 delegates in colorado. jacob soboroff, you're tracking down unbound delegates. >> before i talk about the behind-the-scenes battle, i want to talk about where they put the media at the colorado state convention. alex, this is an extraordinary thing to see. i don't know if you can visualize what 6,000 republican coloradans look like but it is a sight to behold. they are been down here on the floor vying for 13 seats left for the republican national convention in cleveland this july. those 13 people are going to win their slots by going up there and making ten-second pitches to the assembled crowd and everybody is going to vote for those 13 remaining seats out of the six people in make the pitches. why this is so important as we have been talking about on my delegate hunt is that ted cruz wants to stop donald trump from reaching 1237 delegates on that first ballot which would seal the deal and give him a nomination. right away as they get to cleveland. if he doesn't get there, it goes to an open convention and alex, for now i'll send it back to you. soon we'll be down there hunting delegates on the ground floor. >> that's what you do so well, delegate hunter. very cool behind-the-scenes, too, jacob, appreciate that. while ted cruz is adding to his winning streak, donald trump's aides insist the gop front-runner will clinch the nomination ahead of the nomination in july. here's what trump's senior advisor told me earlier today. >> by the time we get to june 7, which is california and some other states, we'll have 1237. we'll go way past 1237 and this will be over. >> well, five states are voting june 7, including the delegate-rich state of california. 172 delegates are at stake there. jacob rascon is joining me in new york. jacob another good day to you. the trump camp hiring a new strategist to lead his delegate corralling efforts and there are more to come, we're told? >> that information comes, in fact, from him, paul metford says he will be hiring seasoned operatives saying he will steal -- as ted cruz has been doing -- delegates for the trump camp. but there is no doubt they're behind there losing badly in colorado as we've been hearing and you have a major shift in the campaign this week and you're looking ahead to more policy speeches. looking ahead to seasoned operatives jumping on. the main focus of the campaign is new york. they want to win and win big and there's an argument there that they must win big if they really truly want to make sit 1237. if they're able to capture all of the delegates here or most of them, more than 80, for example, then the path becomes different. they have to get 53% of the remaining delegates and the campaign says they are confident they can get there. the they say they are going to be prepared in case they don't make it on the first ballot. paul manna ford leading that record. saying he answers only to trump. major shift going forward. trump left trump tower for the first time in several days, making some off-the-record stops possibly at a diner for example just now he left. >> that's right because we had him cleared with his schedule today. thank you very much, jacob rascon, bernie sanders is campaigning in new york as he looks to stretch his winning streak out west and nbc's kasie hunt is joining me from close by to midtown manhattan in the bronx. casey, what is mr. sanders saying today? >> hey, alex, good afternoon. senator sanders making a series of stops across new york boroughs. he'll end his day at the apollo theater trying to reach out to african-american voters but the democratic race is taking place in wyoming. caucus there is under way. here's what bernie sanders had to say about that today. >> we have won six out of the last seven caucuses and primaries. [ cheers and applause ] there is a caucus taking place today in wisconsyoming and if t a large turnout there i hope we will win that as well. [ applause ] >> of course winning wisconsin means picking up 14 delegates. if he sweeps all of them. so it's a pretty small state. he spent election night after wisconsin in laramie, wyoming, which is a town of about 30,000 people so even a win there won't make a huge dent in that delegate count. sanders about 215 or saegs behind hillary clinton in that pledged delegate count and, of course, that explains why he and secretary clinton are both spending so much time here in new york which has so many more delegates. now, the challenge, of course, for him is that he doesn't do as well in primary elections and especially if closed primary elections where only democrats, registered democrats are able to vote. his lead with independents over hillary clinton has been enormous along the way but they can't vote here in this new york primary and that's likely to benefit hillary clinton. sanders' challenge is that he needs to win these upcoming states by large margins if he hopes to catch her in that pledged delegate count. his campaign is out saying that his campaign manager has said that they can win this potentially with super delegates. they're out saying neither one of these candidates is going to get to that magic number of pledged delegates alone so it's going to fall to the super delegates. that would be different from what happened in 2008 when it was clear barack obama had the pledged delegate lead in early ju june. hillary clinton dropped out, of course, conceded. it's not clear that that's what bernie sanders is going to be do if it plays out that way, alex. >> kasie, since you here in touch with the campaign, do you hear anything whether off or on the record about bernie sanders regretting calling senator clinton unqualified? >> well, i can't tell you anything that i might know off the record seeing as that would violate agreements i made with folks that i talked to. >> okay. >> but i will say that there is a sense that people say on deep background that it was going to be hard to defend his position of calling hillary clinton unqualified day in and day out making that argument was going to be difficult and problematic if in the end they hope to unify the party one way or the other. they, of course, insisting that senator sanders still has a path to this nomination and that that's what he wants from this process. but it's clear he got bruised. that said, alex, they feel like he needs to be willing to hit back at secretary clinton harder than he has been, particularly in the context of new york. secretary clinton, of course, has run several tough races here and if bernie sanders wants to hang in he and his advisors believe they need to take it to her more, alex. >> deep background, all good. thank you very much, kasie hunt. there's a new poll out today that looks at trump supporters, it has been gathered over the last few days and there's one number specifically that may surprise you and in fact shocked the gop establishment. that's next. ♪ there it is... this is where i met your grandpa. right under this tree. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto. they're hugging the tree. 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[ laughter and applause ] and this morning he finally acknowledge that, of course, he doesn't really believe that. there is all pretty silly. >> and with that hillary clinton brushed off a tense week in the democratic race, one that saw her and opponent bernie sanders leveling some very personal attacks at each other. but is that really the end of the vitriol? well, let's bring in rebecca byrd, political reporter at real clear politics and josh barrow senior editor and msnbc contributor. josh, to you first. because sanders' line has been pretty positive and hopeful until this week. do you think he did himself some damage with this kind of talk? >> maybe some very minor damage. i mean, i think when we look at what's happened in the republican race and, you know, donald trump has called ted cruz things that i can't even say on television and so this is the, like, tense acrimonious week at the democratic primary, they'll get over this. i think this race has changed less over time than people give it credit for. the map changes. bernie sanders has gone through a run of states that are very favorable to him so he's won a lot of race of them, some by wide margins. that's not a shift in momentum in the race as it's a shift in the geography. it will come back to states that are more urban, more ethnically diverse, hillary will better. part of the reason this week got tense is that fundamentally this race is over. the math is near insurmountable for bernie sanders, he can't take a lead in pledged delegates without doing better than he's done in the past and if he did hillary would still have a lead in the popular vote which would give her a strong argument that super delegates should hand her the nomination. so i think sanders is annoyed that people are not fully acting like it's a real race even though he's winning all these things. i think that sparked tension. >> you're contradicting what jeff weaver said who said neither of the two democrat candidates are going to walk into the convention having secured the required number of delegates. >> right. but hillary will almost certainly have a lead in pledged delegates and she has a huge lead among super delegates. now, super delegates can change their mind but they'd have to have a reason to change their mind and so one reason might be a different candidate has a lead in pledged delegates so it would seem undemocratic to give hillary the nomination. however she will very likely have the pledged delegate lead anyway. even if she doesn't, sanders has gotten so many of his delegates by winning these caucuses with very low turnout so hillary has over two million votes on bernie sanders to date, even if somehow he were able to catch her, which would involve things like he'd have to win california by 15 points, he'd have to win huge in connecticut and rhode island even if he couldn't win massachusetts. even if he did, hillary would industrial more votes so she would have a strong argument to the super delegates to say "don't abandon me, i am the choice of a majority of democratic voters and you are not violating the will of the party by nominating me with your super delegates. >> okay. rebecca, ted cruz is out aggressively courting delegates but as you wrote, he's not had much success on the endorsement front. why is that? what do you think that could mean for him come convention time? >> well, it's the same problem, alex, that ted cruz has had for this entire race. he is genuinely disliked not only by his colleagues in the senate but by republicans in washington, d.c. in general. now, that's something that's helped him on the campaign trail because he's been able to say in a year that's favored outsiders that there's no better proof that i'm an outsider than everyone in washington, d.c. hating me but we're at a really interesting point in the campaign where ted cruz has emerged as the obvious candidate to take on donald trump and force an open convention. he would be the hero for republicans who don't want trump to be the nominee and yet even under those circumstances republicans here in washington state him so much that they can't bring themselves, they can't hold their noses and support him. so it's a very interesting dynamic. senator mike lee said this week, told rcp that he's trying to get senators to come around and he expects they will at some point but we're not there yet, not even close. >> so let's talk about the democratic race in new york and you said how much fun it is to have everybody right here. it feels like everyone is in our backyard and we have so many places to look at the action right now but this could be a huge delegate prize for whomever wins. you have both candidates that have roots here to some degree, varying degrees but how much of an edge does it give to whomever wins? >> well, it's -- the -- it would be psychologically quite bad for hillary to lose this primary. also, when you look at the map going forward and when you chart out what bernie sanders would have to do to catch up with her in pledged delegates, he'd more than have to win new york, he'd have to win by a few points. if he won new york by four points, five points he'd be on pace to catch hillary clinton in pledged delegates. that said, i think it's likely hillary clinton is going to win the primary, she's ahead in the polls, not by as much but a solid ten-point margin. it's a state she represented in the senate for eight years and it's a disproportionately black and hispanic state and she has generally done better with non-white voters than she has done with white voters. so i think yes if she lost it that would be a significant blow both psychologically and in the delegate count but she's probably going to win. >> rebecca, on the republican side, trump has a 30-point lead. why are cruz and kasich spending so much time and effort? what are they hoping to get out of this primary? >> well, remember new york is not a winner take all state. so a number of delegates will go to the person who places first statewide but then you also have contests by congressional districts so if the winner in each congressional district does not get to 50% then the second place finisher still gets a delegate which is very important when we're looking at a race really just to stop donald trump from getting to the magic number to lock up the nomination before the convention so we're at a stage where it isn't just about winning the state, every delegate counts. and so kasich and cruz are hoping that maybe they can scrape together a few delegates here and there from congressional district to congressional district and just really exceed expectations in new york. that's the game for them. >> here's a question for both of you and that is what if trump isn't the nominee? there's a new poll out there that is suggesting fully one-third of republican voters would either not vote or vote democrat if trump doesn't make it. where, then, does that leave the party. josh, to you. >> first of all, when you poll this question before the nominee has been chosen you get a substantial number of people who say "i won't support this other candidate if that's my party's nominee." it's not usually this substantial, not usually a third. but some people who are saying i won't come home for donald trump in fact will come home. they will remember in the general election that they've hated hillary clinton for 30 years and he's somebody who's not hillary clinton. that said, i do think this demonstrates a very real fissure in the party. i think there are some people who will vote for a third party candidate or not vote at all. similarly, it will be the other way around. if he is nominated -- if he's not nominated his own supporters won't come home to vote for ted cruz or john kasich. so i think republicans -- >> but go so far as to vote democratically. >> wisome will vote democrat. some won't show up. trump, because his base is unusually independent on relatively infrequent voters, there's a risk if trump isn't nominated some people who were fans of his just won't show up at all. john kasich, for example, has more upscale voters and they tend to have high turnout rates. i wouldn't expect a lot of them not to show up but they might not vote republican at the top of the ticket and republicans are very nervous for good reason about what this means for senate races and house races. if they're in disarray, if they're having trouble turning out voters because a significant portion of the party is dissatisfied with the nominee i think that they could lose the senate and they could do much worse than they thought they were going to do in house races. >> rebecca, your thoughts if you want to add to this? >> josh made great point there is and i agree exactly with what he said. what i would add is that that's exactly why you're seeing some republicans saying we really need to consider ted cruz because republicans don't necessarily think that he can win in the general election, most republicans at this stage still are a little hesitant with that idea and think maybe he is probably too far right for most of the general electorate. but they figure ted cruz in a general election would be less damaging than donald trump in the long term. republicans i speak with tell me donald trump is viewed as someone who would be a generationally damaging candidate for the republican party whereas ted cruz, he might lose in the general election but he wouldn't have a lasting damaging effect on the party. so that's sort of the choice we'll see if there is an open convention. do we go with someone who could damage the party for decades to come or someone who maybe won't win but less damaging. >> rebecca berg, josh barro, thanks so much. my conversation with author and talk show host tavis smiley. you'll hear his take on donald trump and his connection to black voters. that's ahead. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like bill splitting equals nitpicking. but i only had a salad. it was a buffalo chicken salad. salad. whyto learn, right?e? 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is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. i'm alex witt on msnbc. at this hour, john kasich is speaking at a town hall in rochester, new york, moments ago he addressed the ain't immigrant rhetoric with a story about his ma tern grandmother. >> her mother could barely speak english so people who think we ought to close our doors to immigrant immigrants nee ear dead wrong. immigrants matter. >> john kasich has two more events in the state and ted cruz will deliver remarks in colorado spring, he will then travel to las vegas. on the democrat side, voters in wyoming will gather in a half hour to caucus. 14 of the 18 delegates are up for grabs. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are both here in new york for a total of five events. clinton's only event of the day later in the afternoon in brooklyn. sanders just wrapped up a rally in manhattan and is headed to the bronx for an event scheduled for 1:30 p.m. new reaction following bill clinton's exchange with black lives matter protesters over a crime bill he signed into law in 1996. it happened on thursday while campaigning for his wife in pennsylvania. i asked secretary of transportation anthony fox, a hillary clinton supporter, if it's any risk having bill clinton out on the campaign trail and here's what he said. >> there is really no better explainer in the country than than president clinton. he has been in the political sphere for some time and i think he he is absolutely an asset. obviously he's spoken to the comments yesterday and, frankly, i think both he and secretary clinton have spoken to the fact that the crime bill from the 1990s was not in all cases a great bill in retrospect. so they themselves have said there are some things that need to be done on criminal justice reform, ending mass incarceration and taking steps to ensure fairness for everybody. >> by the way, that crime bill was signed in 1994, not '96. kristen, as we move into the primary, how effective is it having bill clinton on the trail? >> i think the campaign believes it's important to have him on the trait comes with some riskst this cycle we've seen him stick to the script and just the other day he was asked a question, he said "i'm going stick to the script on this one" which i thought was great because it underscored his own recognition that he's got to rein it in a little bit. of course, back in 2008 he had a mixed record. he had those comments where he referred to then senator barack obama as the biggest fairy tale he'd ever seen and that drew a big backlash. this incident you have been discussed today with the black lives matter protesters really one of the few that we've seen in which he's gotten embroiled in controversy he plays well in a state like new york. it willing all hands on deck here. all of secretary clinton's delegates will be crisscrossing the state between now and primary day. they think the state is crucial to her clinching the nomination. she has a big lead mathematically but a loss in new york from an optics perspective would be devastating. this is where she served as senator for two terms. >> thank you so much kristen welker. i spoke with tavis smiley, host of the pbs show "tavis smiley" and author of a new book "50 for your future, lessons from down the road" about the heating exchange between black lives matter protesters and we talked about donald trump's appeal to black voters. what about the method and the message of the black lives matter protesters? do you agree with that? if not, what do you think could be different? >> i think that what you start with is a moment that moment if you're fortunate builds momentum and that momentum turns into a movement and i want to give the black lives matter movement great credit for what they've done to focus this country on the issues that matter regarding the respect for humanity and dignity of black lives writ large and the lives of african-american young men and even young women. having said that, i think they ought to be applauding because they have forced hillary to address this issue. they have forced bernie to address this issue. again, one can question tactics all day long but at the end of the day i've learned, alex, that well-behaved people rarely get anything done. let's move to the republican side on that note. you've said trump's anti-immigrant comments aren't disqualifying to black voters. should black voters be concerned about a candidate who uses such divisive language? >> they certainly should be and i don't know that he's going to enjoy anything isn't support from the african-american community although i thought at one point before he went completely nutty with these comments that he had a good chance to make a play for the african-american vote and certainly i thought would do better than mitt romney's abysmal showing with black voters the last time around. >> but how would he do that? >> there are a number of ways. trump knows black people and trump hangs out with black people, he as black friends. i call them bfots, black friends of trump. i've talked to a number of high-profile people who have good things to say about trump and i've talked to his friends who say they've never seen him behave in any racist sort of way and so i'm not? sure that donald trump is a racist, but he's certainly acts and talking in a racial sort of way. and i think to the point you raised a moment ago, alex, those anti-muslim anti-immigrant comments, i'm sad to say that, but they're not automatically disqualifying for black voters writ large. black and brown voters aren't always in lockstep. clearly there are examples where we've done some coalition building, but in california where i live, when that anti-immigrant prop 187 was on the ballot, black folk didn't show up in the way hispanic thoughts. prop 209, the anti-affirmative action measure we didn't get the support we wanted from their community. so just because we're getting crumbs from the table doesn't mean we're always politically aligned so those comment aren't necessarily automatically disqualifying. and so i just again don't want the black vote to be taken for granted. but mr. trump and mr. cruz have got to at least make overtures to the black vote. how can you even think that a community would consider voting for you if you don't make overtures to them and especially if you have agendas that run against and run counter to their interest. >> all right, let's talk about the book. what motivated you to write it? >> i thought when i turned 50 last year, alex, this would be a book about lessons learned from my own life and i thought it might in fact become the second phase of my memoir following up my book "what i know for sure." it turned out not to be that. i started focusing on what it meant to be 50 and what i learned along the way and i just believe with humility that wherever and wherever and however and from whomever you learn lessons that you can share to help others make better choices and live better lives. >> what is the best advice that you ever got. was it anything that changed your life? >> 50 of them in this book. so much i've learned along the way from people. i talk in the book about the fact that each day, today is not refundable and i explain what i mean by that. i talk about spending time in stillness. i've had to learn over the years that i just can't be on my hustle and my grind all the time. if i don't spend some time in stillness i don't have the good ideas and energy flow through me. i talk about the fact that time is undefeated. when i turned 35, i realized the life expectancy for black men is only 70, i've lived half of my life. so i wasn't just a young 35-year-old kid. i had to realize, you know, time is fleeting and i better get busy on my grind and hustle if i want to make a meaningful contribution. >> sold. i'm going to run out to a bookstore and pick this up. that's great advice, tavis. before i let you go, any chance you want to make a headline and let me know the candidate you're going to endorse? >> i'm not endorsing anybody. like you, we cover these campaigns so i've never been in the business of endorsing people. further more, i don't like it when people tell me who i ought to vote for. i want to make my own informed decision so i believe our best role is to help people reexamine the assumptions they have, help them expand their inventory of ideas with good reporting and i think the american people are smart enough to make the right choices. i'm just glad this time around in the democratic primary the votes of my community are at least being competed for and in the campaign writ large the general election, the country will have a stark choice. i'll close on this note. this book is about what kind of person you want to be and can be but this election, alex, is about what kind of country we want to be and we better be abundantly clear about what choice we make and what it says to the world about who we really are and whether or not our ideals can match with the ideas that we're going to support with whoever we choose to be the next president of these united states. >> well, very, very well said. i have to say i completely mirror your sentiments about endorsements. well done. tavis smiley, thank you so much for joining me. always a pleasure. >> you're kind to have me on, thank you, alex, have a great weekend. >> you, too. a new report says bernie sanders supporters are pressing hillary clinton's super delegates to flip. can sanders force a contested con sflengs that's next. (laughing) there's nothing like making their day. except making sure their tomorrow is taken care of too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can. so strap yourselves in for action flo! small business edition. oh, no! i'm up to my neck in operating costs! i'll save the day! for plumbers and bakers and scapers of lawn, she's got customized coverage you can count on. you chipped my birdbath! now you're gonna pay! not so fast! i cover more than just cars and trucks. ♪ action flo did somebody say "insurance"? children: flo! ♪ action flo cut! can i get a smoothie, please? ooh! they got smoothies? for me. ooh! they got smoothies? some say "free the whales." for them, nothing else is acceptable. but nothing could be worse for the whales. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort w a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows. they'll continue to receive the highest standard of care available anywhere. and guests can come to see them simply being their majestic selves. inspiring the next generation of people to love them as you do. as bernie sanders works to clinch another win in wyoming, we're learning more about his strategy to win the nomination with the help of super delegates. sanders lags drastically behind clinton. he has 32 speegs compared to her 459. here's what sanders national press secretary shared with my next guest about who these super delegates are. >> there are delegates that are supporting us, t the super delegates that haven't made their support public. i'm not saying we have 300 super delegates wait manager the wings but we have folks that have not yet con forward and made their support of senator sanders known but we look forward to seeing that happen. >> joining me is molly hooper, congressional reporter for the hill. molly, what sense did you get to get these super delegates on board? >> well, this interesting number we're talking about, this 712 number of so-called free agents out there for the democratic candidates to pick up as late as the convention. there's a battle going on for the 12 -- excuse me, the 200 or so unpledged super delegates 245 that have not aligned either with bernie sanders or hillary clinton at this point. so the bernie sanders campaign tells us they have people on staff who are actively and daily in communication with these folks who could again change their position as late as convention day. >> there's this report in today's "wall street journal" examining all the behind-the-scenes by the sanders campaign and supporters to get clinton's super delegates to defect. here's the quote. >> you hearing about these tactics? >> i actually -- let me be honest, i have not yet. because usually we'll find out more about that when the house gets back in session next week and a the members who have been on recess for the past few weeks start chatting amongst themselves about what they're hearing on the trail. that said, it seems like the tactics that these bernie sanders -- boisterous bernie sanders supporters are using are backlashing. in fact, tad devine, a senior strategist to bernie sanders said last week he said that now the campaign, the official campaign is not actively encouraging the supporters to go after hillary clinton's pledge super delegates however they're not discouraging it, either. >> so potentially though you think there could be backlash then for him? >> there could be but the bernie sanders campaign is trying to distance themselves from the tactics used by the supporters that are -- that could be seen as harassing on facebook or via twitter and social media. the report that you mentioned had great examples of unpledged super delegates who have been receiving calls at home, at work and they haven't been able to do anything about it. >> okay. this mcclatchy/marist poll says 79% of clinton supporters would vote for sanders. 69% of sanders supporters say they would vote for clinton. how close do you think super delegates pay attention to this? >> well, this is something we saw with the 2008 election and barack obama who ended up picking off about two or three dozen super delegates who had already aligned themselves with hillary clinton. he ended up picking off a few of those people because the popular will of the people, so to speak, was going in barack obama's direction and these super delegates are -- a lot of them are elected representatives. they're members of the democratic national committee, they sit on city councils, they are state representatives so they are definitely in tune with what's going on at home in their districts in the places where they are representing voters. >> molly hooper, congressional reporter for the hill. thanks, molly. >> thank you. you'll hear what i my next guest who met with the trump campaign this is donald trump was not necessarily expecting to win the nomination, coming your way next. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ is it keeps the food out. for me before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. super poligrip is part of my life now. what if 30,000 people download the new app? we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure. later today ted cruz can pick up an extra 13 delegates in colorado during a new round of voting. he picked up 21 delegates yesterday. cruz's victory puts him 224 delegates behind trump as they ramp up their delegate strategies. let's bring in republican strategist. i want to get your reaction to the delegate fight. has he left it too late where organization is always considered to be so key? >> yes. yes to organization is key. >> does it matter if trump gets 1,237 on the first ballot? >> it does matter. whoever gets 1,237 is going to have the nomination whether they get it in cleveland or beforehand. here is the thing. you have to start building this type of organization early. we know that mr. trump garnered nearly $2 billion worth of free media that the other candidates did not get and from his name i.d. it does take more than that. i think they are caught flat footed now seemingly unaware of what rnc republican convention rules are, what the nominating process is and we see a lot of supporters as well as other people who maybe aren't committed yet or support other candidates seem confused. the fact that it is in focus and the media is focussing and educating people on what the process is, it wasn't something new that came up, nobody trying to steal anything from anyone. this is the process complicated to make sure the party gets the best candidate who can win. i think the scrutiny even though it is difficult is helpful and good. it's a good civics lesson. >> i know that you met with trump's campaign manager to discuss potentially taking on the role of communications director. i don't want to get into fallout here. you told the national review that you came out with the sense that trump doesn't really want the nomination. he wouldn't mind falling short of a delegate must just, losing the nomination and then playing angry celebrity victim in the coming years. >> that wasn't necessarily from those meetings. i was approached by the trump campaign for two meetings. they were pretty standard. this was my opinion in the months following that and in part what we have seen with them not having an organization, not really building the type of team that they needed to thinking if they were anti-establishment we see bringing on a ton of establishment people. the type of people that trump's base says that they hate. so we are seeing that they are starting to realize that there are people who know what they are doing and there is value in that experience. mr. trump did not really have an issues platform to run on. he was winging it and it worked for a while. he is in that part of the process now where people want specifics and want all candidates to be statesman like, to know what they are talking about. this is a person who will be commander in chief. parents of military personnel and spouses and families, they want to know that the person who is in charge basically of the lives of military men and women serving in dangerous situations have the right commander in chief. this is getting a little more serious now and we see that now in the discussions and in the coverage and now that there are fewer candidates the scrutiny is there. i don't see mr. trump really being as crisp on the issues as i think a lot of voters would expect or compared to kasich or cruz. >> how do you see this all ending? >> i think the way the delegate race is going it shows that mr. trump was not prepared. mr. cruz is. kasich is probably going to do well in new york if they keep trump under 50% in new york that really makes a difference. i don't think trump will have the 1,237 going into the convention and i think at that point i don't think they will get an outsider. if cruz has shown he is capable of unifying, a lot of people in washington diplomat like him but they are kind of coming around. they are showing he can do the hard work and pick up the delegates there is also good will towards john kasich because he is certainly a good positive face for the party. if he keeps trump under the 1,237 because the vast majority of republicans do not want trump. as we know in pennsylvania a full one-third of republican voters won't vote for trump but hillary or someone else. the party wants somebody who can win. they want somebody who has been vetted and so they want somebody who shows that they know how to go through the states and really work people and convince them not by bullying them but convincing them that they are the best person to represent the party and who can beat the democrat nominee who will probably be hillary. >> thank you so much as always. coming up next, i will talk with a political scientist who says she rarely agrees with sarah palin but one comment struck accord with her. etter professor by being a more adventurous student? 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New-yorkUnited-statesTexasRhode-islandTown-hallMassachusettsCaliforniaWisconsinWashingtonDistrict-of-columbiaConnecticutWyomingon crow's super yacht. one was in the caribbean, they remember riding jet skis off the side of the yacht. another was a trip to russia in the baltics, where the tour st. petersburg rented helicopter. another guess, on that strip was chris muth, who at the time was president of a major influential conservative think tank, american enterprise institute. >> we're also learning about two other justices, liberal, once justice sotomayor, -- so there are a lot of questions tonight. broader questions about ethics within the supreme court, and whether there should be a reform. and, this is also largely driven by your excellent reported, joshua, on justice thomas and his friendship with harlan crow the billionaire. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> out front next breaking news. the new york times reporting federal prosecutors investigating trump's handling
OneRussiaSideHarlan-crowAnotherSuper-yachtVacationsYachtTripGuessWhere-the-tour-stHelicopter aliens. governor brewer organizes that tough measures are essential. 460,000 people are living in arizona illegally, almost half a million, so says the department of homeland security. the new law is hemmed in, however, by several conditions. item, arrest only within the context of regular contact. no random areftz or roaming latino drag net. item, reasonable suspicion is required. police cannot rely on hunches or race alone. no racial profiling. arizonaens are overwhelmingly in favor. 70% back it, but many democrats in and out of arizona have blasted it, connecting the state's statute with adolf hitler. here is illinois democratic congresswoman january chick jon cicowski. >> the words, show me your papers came from the mouths of a nazi. >> a man of the cloth went even further. cardinal mahoney likened the law to "german nazi and russian communist tech nikes whereby people are required to turn the other words, quizling. question. if you must show identification to board an airplane or to open up a bank account, what's so wrong with having ove your presence in the u.s. is legal? pat buchanan? >> first let mae talk about cardinal mahoney. that is disgraceful to compare the 70% of people in arizona to stall be. as for jan, she does not know what she is talking about. john, since 1940, it's been a requirement of everybody that's in the country, legal immigrant or guest worker to carry his card with him, his green card or work permit. it's required to carry that in federal law. all arizona is doing is saying federal law is now applying in the state. when a cop stops someone for speeding, they say give me your license. if he doesn't have a license, let mae see your registration. if he can't speak english, where did you go to hey school? he takes him in and then calls up immigration enforcement to determine. comparing this to the nazis is an attack on the country. >> reporter: do you agree? >> no. i don't like the comparisons to the nazis. i don't think you ever get anywhere making those comparisons. this doesn't sound like small government america to me to start requiring people to carry papers with them. every country is entitled to monitor their own borders, but it is a federal issue. i think this law arizona passed is almost certainly unconstitutional. it is a cry for help. they have ignited all sorts of debate in this country and it's now landed in the lap of congress with after a lot of dithering over the years and administrations and different political parties will now have to finally confront what to do with this issue. it's not an issue either party wanted to plan on in an election here, but it is here, and it's gonna be divisive, ugly, and may eventually yield some benefit. the fact that we will eventually, president obama's first term get immigration reform. >> the statute in arizona does not deviate from european standards. the europeans require current address of where you are now living. >> that's right. the federal government is constitutionally mandated to provide for the common defense. in this case, that means preservation of u.s. sovereignty and also means national security by enforcing the border. because the federal government refused to do it under both republican and democratic presidents for decades, now we have this situation. that's why arizona was forced to act. since 1940, pat is right, it has been a federal law for any resident alien to carry their papers with them, number one. number two, while eleanor is correct that the primary authority for immigration does rest with washington since 1976, the u.s. supreme court has held that states can enact laws to discourage illegal immigration. that's why the 2007 arizona law that prohibits any business from knowingly hiring illegal aliens was actually upheld by the most liberal circuit court, the ninth circuit court in san francisco. so the only thing arizona really did here was put steel into already existing law. they put a mechanism in place to allow the state to enforce the federal law. >> is immigration on the federal level by reason of of a constitutional mandate, pat? >> the government of the united states is obligated in the constitution to defend the states from invasion. >> it der vieives from that? >> that's me. immigration and citizenship in the united states is federal. >> obviously, right? you can't have states deciding citizenship. >> kristin, welcome. you want to make a point? >> yeah, i have two points. the first part is the hypocrisy, the intellectual hypocrisy because we have as eleanor was pointing out, a lot of the same people ercised righ about big government and pointing out the american tradition of liberty, individual rights are also the people who are on the side of allowing the government to intrude much more into individuals' lives on immigration. i think that's not surprising that we're seeing that rate now because now is a time of tightened economic anxiety. the central issue here is an economic issue. we are seeing the middle class feeling very, very squeezed and very threatened. unemployment is at 9.7%. a classic response is protectionism and ant eye immigration -- >> what i did. >> one more hang on, hang on. >> yes. >> i was at a conference where mike bloomberg spoke. >> the mayor of new york. >> the mayer of new york. he said he is terrified by this immigration debate because he believes america's historic economic strength has been its openness to immigrants. >> is he taking into consideration -- [ all talking at once ] >> hang on, pat. just let me finish. new york city, he says, is strong, very, very much because of immigrants and -- >> but -- >> legal. >> does he have -- [ all talking at once ] >> he thinks it's central -- >> but does bloomberg have -- >> i agree. >> john, let me get in here, please. >> does bloomberg have trucks coming across the border smuggling alien naz new york as happens in arizona? >> phoenix is the kidnapping and human smuggling capital of new york america. to your point, there are 8 million illegal aliens holding jobs in this country while 15 million african-americans, hispanic americans are out of work. i believe we've got to put americans first. >> let's let here. blame the feds. >> those people are free to express their views, but the fact is the arizona legislature and governor acted for one reason, and that is because the federal government did not act and carry out its responsibilities to secure our borders. >> president obama agrees with senator mccain's premise, at least on its principle point. >> our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. that includes, for example, the recent efforts in arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness which we cherish as americans. >> you hear that? is that a cedch issue? >> he is right. the derlition of its duty by the government of united states, which barack obama heads is the reason -- [ all talking at once ] >> let monica in. >> i mean, come on. look, you can agree that there is a problem that arizona as a border state is uniquely vugger inable and legislation that california passed in the past has funneled immigration to arizona. >> yeah -- [ all talking at once ] >> arizona is vulnerable. >> it's an intrusion. [ all talking at once ] >> california put up walls, right? the walls kept them out. >> there are regional differences in how we handle immigration. in fact, texas governor george w. bush, who was very progressive on immigration in texas, handled the situation quite well. but to pat's point saying they are taking jobs from americans is grievance politics. that's the wedge issue that's coming in here. then you have republicans screaming that democrats did. >> wait a minute. >> excuse me. >> how could they ignore it? [ all talking at once ] >> let's give monica a chance. where does this leave the statue of liberty? >> you know what that was a reference to? legal immigration, john. when did we lose sight of the word illegal. illegal immigration is the operative word here. we are a nation of immigrants. if you want to come to this country, we're happy to have you. we have processes in place to do it the right way. >> you think that's -- that is not the issue. >> is that lazarus' words? >> let her finish. [ all talking at once ] >> let me just address kristin's point about how conservatives are so opposed to illegal immigration. there are two constitutional requirements here by the federal government. when you look at the constitution it's one to protect from external enemies, i.e., an illegal immigrant ingration and number -- immigrant invasion and -- [ all talking at once ] >> let her finish. will you let her finish? >> the constitutional requirement is to provide for internal law and order. the chaos we have on the border now is so extreme that the drug cartel and more people have been killed on the border than iraq and set up for citizenship." the bedrock is national identity. if the national identity suffers by reason of multiple languages, then the bedrock of our society, which is our identity, being an american is an american. english preserves that,. >> very true. >> do we have an american culture to which we all contribute. i think, john if we don't have that one culture, we'll wind up vulcanized. there are as many illegal aliens in arizona as there are soldiers in the army of the united states. that is an invasion. >> it's a happy invasion for most people in this country. [ laughter ] [ all talking at once ] >> my turn. we love the diverse itty of food. we have it -- english is the language of commerce. people who come here want to learn our language. there is a problem with human smuggling and with drug smuggling, but the vast majority of mexicans, and that's who we're talking about who come here, come here to work, and they are terrified and keep their heads down. they commit far fewer crimes than other groups. >> if they don't break in, why do they keep their heads down? >> corporate america has welcomed these people with open arms. [ all talking at once ] >> let kristin in here. go ahead. >> yes. i'm going to agree with eleanor's point. i absolutely agree laws must be upheld, but i think arizona's going about it the wrong way. eleanor makes the point that at the employer level you should be enforcing this. if there weren't the demand -- >> why doesn't obama -- >> we're getting similar legislation in texas and colorado, correct? >> sure. arizona passed a law. >> let monica in. >> let me address another point about english being a national language. it is a question about assimilation. teddy roosevelt in 1907 talked about the big waves coming into the united states legally when he said this. it is all a question of assimilation, speaking english, honoring the american flag because becoming an person is not just waltzing over the border and getting amnesty. what has happened in the latino community -- [ all talking at once ] >> do you think -- >> oh, come on, eleanor! [ all talking at once ] >> do you think our national identity as americans is ebbing? >> no. >> no. >> do you? >> yes, it is, because one language one country. you have two languages, two cultures, you get two countries. >> do you see national identity as essential to -- >> national identity is one of the most important issues facing america. >> where they speak 100 different languages that is america's strength. they all learn english, too. >> a hundred languages is just babble. >> exit question. [ all talking at once ] >> immigrants are learning english as they always have done. you guys should have more faith in america. >> exit question. has arizona joined the tea party movement? are the states now in revolt or >> do you think your time has come? >> my time this. the law's too vague and puts too much of a burden on them. you will have conventions boycotting arizona. this will put pressure on the congress to act. they will begin work that the country needs. the governed. when you look at this bill, over 50% of american people agree with what arizona did. we're dealing with the national security aspect of this. we're dealing with so many aspects that the be a very dangerous issue for the republicans. >> i think our national identity has evaporated somewhat. when we come back, has christ risen? the forecast is full of ifs. retirement these days, if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. metlife annuities have helped over a million people stay on course with guarantees for the if in life. get answers about annuities at metlife.com. the risk-takers. the visionaries. the entrepreneurs... who put it all on the line to build and run their own businesses. at at&t, we know something about that. our company started out in a small lab, with not much more than a dream. and today, we know it's small businesses that can create the jobs america needs. that's why at&t is investing billions to upgrade and build out our wired and wireless networks. making them faster, smarter, and more secure. connecting small businesses to markets across the country, and around the world. we invest now, because we know it will pay off... with new jobs, new growth, from a new generation, putting their belief in the future on the line. now is the time for investment and innovation. the future is waiting. and the future has always the future is waiting. and the future has always been our business. at&t. this is power with efficiency. this is an interior that exceeds even the promise of the exterior. this is the all-new jaguar xj. the stunning result of taking a very different road. before this week, florida republican governor charlie had been running for the u.s. senate as a republican. but this week, crist announced that he was changing his political status from republican to independent. the tea party favorite is republican marco rubio, who has held a 20-point lead over crist despite allegations that rubio billed over $100,000 of party funds to a gop credit card that included personal expenditures. minivan repairs, groceries, restaurants, limousines. a $134 haircut. rubio says that any moneys billed to the gop credit card were for "legitimate florida vo crist to announce now if he wins florida that he will caucus when he gets to the senate with the democrats or he will caucus with the republicans? does the public have the right to know now? kristin? >> yeah, i think people should ask him that question. of course they should. >> should he be obliged to answer? >> can he legally be obliged to answer? he's a politician. >> they have the majority leader. >> i were a voter, i would want to know. >> the problem is that you could ask him the question, but charlie crist's words now are mud. last week he went on fox news sunday and said point blank he would not run as an independent. he also said he would stick it out in the republican primary and if someone else won he would throw his support on that person. there are a lot of thins going on in flar, but i think this shows there is an internal struggle within the republican party and it's not just tea party versus moderate it's reform-minded republicans versus the establishment republicans like charlie crist. crist now by taking this road, his political career is finished. >> it looks like rank political opportunism, but that didn't hurt joe lieberman. i think if charlie crist does win, i can make a case for any one of the three major candidates to win that race. i think he will caucus with the republicans. >> like lieberman. >> right, like lieberman caucused with the democrats. i think he would cross the aisle and might make accommodations with a future senate more easy. >> what does jesse helms say about what's in the middle of the road? >> a yellow stripe and dead skunk. >> and what else? >> politicians like crist, right? >> there aren't enough moderates, right? >> charlie crist can't win unless one or the other two candidates, the democrats who will get 25 to 30 even a weak candidate. and rubio should get 40. what he's betting on is i think the so-called scandal in the republican party will sink rubio and then he can move into that base. otherwise -- >> yeah. if the major fight is between the two republicans, really -- [ all talking at once ] >> it opens the door for democrat kendrick who is a good candidate, a former police officer, son of a former congresswoman. he's run statewide. >> monica? >> it's very difficult for any independent to run a successful three-way race. the difference between joe lieberman and charlie crist is that joe lieberman was always a conviction politician. he also had money and infrastructure which is something that the money has certainly dried up for charlie crist. a lost big donors cut him off. >> what about holland? >> absolutely in the same category. arlen specter's the biggest chump in the congress because he thought that the democrat you can wave was gonna continue. it's been halted in its tracks. >> charlie crist might have done better beating and eliminating meek. then he'd have the democrats -- >> one-word answer. exit question. was chris muth smart or dumb, pat bu cannen? >> fatal. >> smart, very dumb. >> the only thing coe do, he had no alternative. >> exceedingly dumb. we'll be right back with predictions. somewhere in america... the slightest breeze harbors immense power. the tallest buildings leave the lightest footprints. a fifty-ton train makes barely a mark on the environment. and a country facing climate change finds climate solutions. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. siemens. the forecast is full of ifs. retirement these days, if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. metlife annuities have helped over a million people stay on course with guarantees for the if in life. get answers about annuities at metlife.com. predictions, pat. ten seconds. >> ukraine's nato bid is dead after letting the russians have the naval base for over 25 years. >> eleanor? >> the catastrophic oil spill in the gulf will silence sarah palin's cry to drill, baby drill. >> what about the president's cry to open up the sea beds? >> it puts that on hold. >> i'm gonna lighten it up a little bit. i predict a british royal wedding. i think that prince william is going to marry his long time girlfriend kate middleton by the end of the year. >> i'm going to move back into serious territory predicting the financial reform will pass and it will be a big bump for the democrats. >> chicago mayor richard m. daly will not run. rahm emanuel will and he will win. bye-bye. 3q this is unlike any car you've ever seen before. this is power with efficiency. this is an interior that exceeds even the promise of the exterior. this is the all-new jaguar xj. the stunning result of taking a very different road.
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