short those names in the holiday season? >> broad market is lower despite the gdp number. we'll get the view. bombshell ticktock in "the new york times." futures off the lows after the release of the final -- preliminary hearing gdp report from before the presidential election. data showing the economy grew 2% in the third quarter. that's above expectations and up from 1.3 we saw in q-2. numbers were boosted by consumer spending and defense and a big part of this, we'll see today whether we're still in an environment where people question data clearly gdp is more hard to manipulate than the jobs number. >> i thought the same. as soon as numbers came out, i said the people who do not like obama will say this was padded by five more planes sold. this one was padded by an error that will be reversed or california counted twice. we're in a weird mode. whatever it said, if it's positive, it's a lie. i'm not buying that. these are good numbers. reverse the market. it's for real. >> good or just not bad? >> not bad. any kind of good news would be welcome right here and this comes under the category of good news. >> better than what we anticipated. better than we saw in the last quarter. maybe we can keep it going although one wonders where we are this quarter already given how much talk there is about the fiscal cliff and everyone pulling back and not like the numbers we've seen although those were third quarter numbers we saw from corporate america but particularly technology where it seems as though spending really did slow. >> september was bad. the u.k. yesterday posted a number of 1%. i was watching when the number came out. there were people high fiving. 2%. that's twice as good as what they did. >> two times the amount of high five. >> romney supporters may not question the validity of the data but they'll say that 2% is not strong enough to support job growth in this economy. while the numbers are not bad, they're not bad, they're not good and they're not good enough for job creation. >> last night on "mad money" you said almost no company gets through the ridiculous gauntlet of the third quarter unscathed and you have said the next 11 days before election day are going to be tough no matter what. >> they're torture. i keep coming back to a couple -- this is the best example. we had broadcom on the other day. scott mcgregor, the ceo. they blew in numbers when it comes to wireless. they did good cable numbers. we had comcast with good numbers. they exceeded every single metric. they have tremendous apple business. i was joking about going 33 bid because stock was at 34 at a time. the stock has not had a minute's rest. it keeps going down. what more does the market want? the gauntlet is to high. it had technology. it had a sense that the peak was reached with apple. in other words, sell broadcom. that stock would have been at least 5% if it wasn't for the gauntlet that we're in right now. >> meantime, let's talk about apple. fourth quarter profits falling short of street estimates as does current quarter forecast. apple sold 14 million ipads and that's fewer than analysts had been expecting. the company also sold nearly 27 million iphones exceeding forecasts. there is something for everyone here, jim, and what is remarkable is that in the post-market session yesterday, apple was down as much as 3% on the news on the miss. and then the stocks are recovering on the belief that once again apple is sandbagging when it comes to fiscal first quarter. >> two companies reported last night. neither plays by the rules. there was apple. more granular than i thought. and all i could hear about was someone saying listen, fourth quarter not that great. could you tell me where the shortfall, gross margins -- meanwhile, he's stuck with r-- e doesn't see it the same way. you mentioned samsung but they're doing better than you guys. when i finished, i said the analysts think they are knuckleheads and they must be out there. i'm not sure what kind of equipment they're buying. maybe research in motion. sticking by this fabulous company hewlett packard. cook is saying they're doing well. amazon is going to say that we're great. the neck with you. >> i don't think there are any other companies. it works for amazon. for whatever reason. because of the confidence in the ceo and the plan and long history, by the way i think in some ways you can view it as a positive sign for investing because you have to be an investor when it comes to amazon. it is an open ended growth story. you can make an argument that amazon will be the biggest company in the world one day and you won't look at me like i have four heads. >> maybe three. it's remarkable story. >> there's no valuation support for stock at this level. >> there's none. there was a moment on the call where i kept saying when will someone ask a question and they'll answer it. finally someone said, listen, now you are starting to have to pay taxes in different states. how are you doing? we're doing the same as without taxes. can you go into that? no. we're not going to go into that. >> international trading weak relative to everything else. tax trend at large is working against them state by state. big boxes do match. does that make a difference going into a quarter where the tre pressure is on. >> netflix quarter, they are not growing international. they're talking about credit card problem. amazon is not growing fast enough because they seem to be able to control the growth. they could grow faster. trying to put up as many different warehouses as possible. it's clear that these guys have such -- david is right. if they said that international was slowing, people would blame it on anyone other than amazon. amazon, tell me what they told y that made it so that stock is flying. they said we're doing a great job. go shot up and just recommend us. >> one thing they cannot gloss over is charge for living social. $169 million total. net is 240 something. they have -- it's been a bad horse. >> it has. >> 37 cent loss compared to what was for living social specifically versus what was expected which was an eight cent loss. much bigger in terms of order of magnitude. that was more than half of the net loss that they posted for the quarter. >> that's a tough business. i didn't say they screwed up. i revere them so much. one of the things that i think -- remember i said that the apple analysts seemed to be weighted to fantastic information technology that we get. on this call, i was waiting for the guy to say, i'm an amazon prime and i just want to say how fabulous it is next. >> i tell you what was interesting, back to apple, we all know steve jobs never pulled any punches when referring to competitors, david. but to hear tim cook call the surface compromised and confusing felt like they were out on a limb. >> as much as a different personality today. >> but then some of the reviews have been even rougher from microsoft which had two presentations yesterday as we all know. one for windows 8 in terms of running it on everything else and then for the surface and some of the reviews have been brutal in terms of the windows 8 as well because of this mixed message so to speak that it's sending. >> i'm interviewing this as part of this homecoming. i want to ask is how much contempt did jobs really have for microsoft? it does seem there was this really weird relationship. >> between him and gates. >> there was no relationship between hthem. you do this and i think it's an exciting product. but then i start reading reviews and i say i guess i was wrong. it's not exciting. i was wrong it's not that interesting. i'm wrong to like it. i don't like it anymore. >> you never had to make the consumer decision of whether or not to buy it. >> remember, i did see at my college reunion, i saw someone with a microsoft phone. >> we know who that is. >> he's not abandonning that phone. he's sticking by the microsoft phone, which is a statement. >> back to apple for a minute. the operating margin guy w-- guide was not good. >> there is a thinking that as the iphone 5 and ipad mini ramp up in production, costs will go down and so this could be the trump when it comes to margins and improve by next june. >> we come back to multiple which is nine times, ten times. >> cash on hand. >> $20 billion in cash. >> did you get the funny moment -- >> it's still a huge consumer growth story. how many are out there? >> calling itv was supposed to be tim cook's hobby. and another one where they said aren't you pricing ipad mini too high. it's the greatest thing we ever created. $39 to high. when you go into an apple store do you say this is $39 too high. i got to go to see what dollar tree has. maybe they have a hewlett packard. meg whitman, able to underprice that with her tablet? >> i don't know. i don't know. i haven't talked to meg about that. i doubt it. >> the isi note i thought was interesting. brian marshall, whether or not international is reaching some theoretical threshold of potential. we all know the infrastructure outside of this country is not what it is in the united states and international showing signs of maybe not keeping pace with the u.s. >> i remember rick hill who used to be the ceo came on "mad money" and said go outside of the u.s. samsung do what apple is. samsung reports this remarkable quarter. china, tim cook did give that double digit threshold when intel got to one-third china intel took off. you did get the feeling of this, wait a second, if i were in korea right now i would say -- >> hong kong and singapore on the trains, on buses, on streets, you see samsungs and more rarely do you see an apple iphone. samsung results prove it. 18.8% margins. highest level in two years since adopting international accounting standards. they are on a trajectory that's higher but the holiday season may be tepid. >> who is funding the samsung expansion? apple. they use apple's chips. intel said you want to stop giving them business and give it to us. i think about what jobs said about intel which is they are plotting upward even though andy grove was a sometime friend of jobs. >> you mention seasonality at apple. there's a question about the dearth of products once new year hits and it's not expected until spring so what happens between january and the spring when there is no product coming out because it's been a very prolific quarter when it comes to product rollouts. >> i say, okay, would i rather own new corps or apple? timkin or apple? general mills. mentioning stocks that have mire multiples. png. now, johnson & johnson. i'll take my chances with the company. >> let's move on and talk citi. back in the spotlight this morning. sources telling "the new york times" bank's chairman michael o'neill was working behind the scenes for months and that pandit was summoned to a meeting telling him the board lost confidence in you. pandit then resigned immediately. >> it made it difficult from what i understand in terms of the relationship with the board, which was quite testy. we knew that day when it was announced something was awry. we reported quickly he had been forced out. i used the word fired. that's clearly the case. been waiting for a story like this to give us more. i've been doing reporting on this and having conversations but this is a nice story by the "times" in giving us that time line. we wondered when o'neill came in and i heard this antidotedly that he wanted this job. it has been said to me that this guy is running citi right now. that would seem to be the case from the reporting that's been done from the "times" in terms of the process he took to get board members over to his side to force out pandit. with pandit i wonder why he went down a route of saying it was my decision. maybe better having said nothing. >> he obviously did plan this between 10:03 and 10:07. >> it was his decision. >> so certainly he had -- >> he said, maybe i don't want this job. >> opposed to saying get out at the end of the day, he chose the latter option. >> the "times" asks whether the board was unnecessarily ruthless. are you grateful o'neill is there or do you think he acted harshly? verdict? >> i don't think we can have a verdict at this point. i think time will tell. there was a feeling within the bank to a certain extent that while pandit got them through difficult periods, he was not a banker and that they needed somebody who was. we'll see whether that ends up being the case. i think there was -- we talked about this day one this feeling they need to get smaller and not smaller as in taking everything in but just more focused and he may have resisted that so we'll see if it was the right call or not. >> it was a good quarter sbut they put out numbers saying they were the least productive bank. >> it's a heck of a read in the "times" today. when we come back, dairy giant dean foods taking a part of the company public today. rising organic and silk and we'll talk to the chairman of dean foods. we'll take you to a microsoft pop-up store for the latest. one more look at futures. da damage undone this morning as a result of a slightly better than expected gdp number. "squawk on the street" is back in a moment. a pop-up store is in times square. there have been crowds at the store and people online waiting to pick up tablets since midnight. what's the scene like right now, simon? >> reporter: good morning to you. welcome to one of the 34 pop-up stores across america that microsoft has launched today taking the message very much the commercial message to the streets. you can see it's busy. they opened this at 10:00 last night. there's 34 stores across america that will remain open until 1:00 monday morning. obviously it's the launch of the surface, the new tablet. you know that. also the launch of windows 8. they want to create the buzz that apple is able to create. they want to take it right on the street. guess who just turned up? the chief operating officer for microsoft, kevin turner, is with us. quite an endeavor to put up 34 outlets like this. i presume you had to train this staff. >> absolutely, simon. today we're opening up 34 of our stores in addition to 30 of our regular stores. we have 64 stores open. we have lines getting people trained and excited. there's excitement around windows 8 and certainly surface. >> i don't see a huge number of surface being sold. >> all of these bought surface and are waiting to be trained. i see a lot of boxes that have been sold. we had lines down the street in times square. it's been an incredible turnout. we want to take this product to a billion people around the world that use microsoft products every day. >> what about this idea perhaps that the software isn't quite where the hardware would like it to be? >> the hardware is coming. it's happening rapidly. great partners, hp, dell, great hardware coming. we're excited about that. >> thank you very much. kevin turner joining us. back to you, guys. i'll race back down to the stock exchange. >> all right. see you then, simon. interesting. we understand that initial sales of the ipad mini have sold out within minutes of when they first went on sale midnight pacific time. >> they did it in minutes. that's disappointing. i was looking for them to be sold within the first 43 seconds. you know that fellow, that j jamaican, i thought they should have done it in that time. >> his 200 or 100 time? >> 100. >> hello. >> it's very disappointing number. i have to take my price target down again. >> all right. last night on "mad money" cramer revealed obstacles standing in bulls way. how should you go today? mad dash up next. bob... oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. >> mad dash on this friday. things getting crowded in here as we await the ipo of white wave. we'll start with expedia. nice acceleration in hotels. >> why do people not understand this country is replacing the travel part of major enterprises. people are now told you go using expedia. this company saves companies money and that's why it beats the number. >> is there a priceline halo today. >> people are saying they are still traveling chlg th ingtrav. they want to travel cheaper. value has been a theme. people keep wanting to sell stocks thinking no one will travel. people have to travel. they travel priceline and expedia. >> hotels and airlines too. not a bad quarter. >> really good. >> when we come back this morning, the home of land o'lakes is about to go public today. we'll get the opening bell in just a moment. mike rowe here at a ford tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee... affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. buy four select tires, get a $60 rebate. use the ford service credit credit card, get $60 more. that's up to $120. where did you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts, which is why he trades with a company that doesn't nickel and dime him with hidden fees. so he can worry about other things, like what the market is doing and being ready, no matter what happens, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense, from td ameritrade. >> the dow has not had a losing october since 2008. so far this month the dow is down 2.5%. s&p down two. nasdaq down four. we'll see if we get more inspiration today. the maker of silk soy products and horizon organic milk. microsoft celebrating windows 8 and windows 8 pcs. amid the apple news that we talk about, we did not mention potential effect on a pandora. >> i am shocked pandora is not down. trading $1.50 in the market and they could roll out something similar. i don't want to compete against apple. >> apple is flat. exactly flat in today's session. we're also seeing microsoft basically flat and ibm flat as well. for technology, yesterday after the bell when amazon numbers initially crossed apple numbers you thought one would think it would be a bad day for technology. here we are. both of those major stocks are flat and nasdaq here is edging toward the green. >> amazon up over 4%. >> shut up, analysts, and buy us. >> when you treat analysts like dogs, they are obedient. sit. buy. okay. rollover. all right. that's how i feel analysts behave. >> they don't listen to analysts. let's try to remember that. it is the decision of investors at the end of the day. there are numerous that believe in the company and the strategy. >> apple is a value stock. obviously they could take the dividend and triple the dividend tomorrow if they would like. it wasn't clear what they were going to do with the cash. >> for apple, i'm not trying to be an apple defender or anything like that. when it comes to estimates on apple analysts put forth, bullish. when we say that apple missed, maybe we say that analysts got it wrong. they're too bullish. apple gave guidance lower than consensus guidance was and they've been doing that quarter after quarter after quarter which is why apple sandbags when they give guidance. analysts take that and come up with an estimate that's higher that apple may or may not miss. >> apple is running the business the way you would run it. you have a hot product. you want to get that product out. you know that people have demand for that product. analysts say if you had done this december 11th, you would have made a better fourth quarter. what are you thinking? we're not thinking about anything you're thinking about. we're thinking about running a company that's a great american company and understand that we're not general mills. general mills will do what they're supposed to do. 26. they'll do 27. cisco is supposed to be 19, they'll do 18. apple, we're not constrained by what you want us to do. we'll run the business in a good way. >> back in the real world, goldman sachs with a nuance trade on caterpillar. keeps the buy but removes the conviction buy because they say dynamics that prompted them to put it on conviction buy in the first place have not panned out. where does that leave us? >> let's go over that. okay. they put it on the list and since then it's down 13% versus the s&p being up 11%. >> that's a strike against. >> we bought some in honor of analysts this morning because it seemed like, wait a second, it's down -- maybe up in the s&p because if you're that wrong, then it's conceivable that you could be equally as wrong when you pull it. >> right. >> that guy is clearly someone that you want to find out. i used to talk to tommy all the time. he said what you're looking for is an analyst that does the wrong thing so next time he does the wrong thing, you know which way to bet. i always thought tommy and his father were great investors. to go against him seems too logical. >> on the right side of the scree screen, 19.5. 18 to 21. 19 to 19.5 is the best indication right now as far as whitewave. wwav is the ticker signal on this. we'll talk to the chairman in a few moment's time. this is in that health food category demanding premium valuations with whole foods. >> terrific guy. i've been aggressive on the show. i'll mention this. i have two -- at the time they were vegans. the only thing you can have is almond milk. give me almond milk. this company is sin has the stu vegans love. people who like bad tasting -- people who like almond milk. >> land o'lakes has never treated me wrong. right on the money. >> bob? >> okay. so whitewave priced 23 million shares at $17. that was well above the initial price talk. $14 to $16. right now we look $14 to $16. priced at 17. opening around $19. should open in a couple of minutes. this is capitalizing on the craze for health related products. silk one of their products. land o'lakes. this is a popular food category. let's just move on. i think melissa had a good point this morning. did you notice overnight a lot of worry on apple. apple trades up most of the night. amazon turns around very quickly trades up. futures were down but came well off of their lows. was never really that bad overnight. came well off their lows once we got the gdp numbers out better than expected. shorts are very nervous right here. the biggest risk to stocks all week and market has reflected that companies missing on revenues. we have seen some money managers all throughout the week suggesting lowering exposure to stocks. very respected guy on the street talking about that just recently. he had a very good point. they seem more worried about the earnings cliff rather than the fiscal cliff. that's a very valid point. i've been mentioning it all week. i had eight big companies that i followed overnight of them half of them, five of them missed on the revenue front. that's been the big story. that's the main story that's going on. look at one company guys. goodyear tire. love the company. simple product to understand. global reach. did you see the numbers? key metric is volume. how much are they selling in tire and dollar volume. well below expectations. not just in europe. we knew that. china below expectations. asia. latin america and the united states volumes were below expectations. they don't provide earnings guidance but volumes below expectations in the fourth quarter as well. another good example, erickson, one of the biggest in the world, samsung is a rival. u.s. sales erupt. good in the u.s. europe and china sales were notably to the downside. $2.2 million getting ready to open on that one. come back to you shortly. back to you. >> all right. we should shift to bonds in the dollar. let's go to rick santelli at the cme group in chicago. >> we had data this morning. unlike some of the previous data points that just seemed to defy logic, this is stronger than expected. traders are the cynical bunch and didn't look at it the same way they did the big drop in claims or big drop in the unemployment rate. what they are paying most attention to are the components and things like defense spending which carl brought up but all in all it kind of was in the quasi range. did it move markets a lot? not really. however, look at a two-day chart of five-year, ten year and 30 year. the five year was selling off more aggressively than the rest of the curve. as you see today, we see the effects of that as the longer maturity rates dropped harder on those two-day charts. if you look at a two-day chart of euro versus dollar, you can see weakness creeping in there. foreign exchange traders say it's because on november 1st there will be new derivative rules. if you don't own spanish debt, you're not going to buy them. derivative changes coming. last chart, dollar yen over two days. you can see that the dollar is losing steam and had had a nice run. we need to go to bob pisani. maybe there's breaking news. >> all right. we're open. $19 here for whitewave. 14 to 16 was the range. priced at 17. opened at 19. we'll have the ceo in just a couple moments. back to you. here's the families. just get a shot. babies are here. families are bringing their children in. this is our man. his daughters standing right here. this is america. this is capital formation. this is the biggest day of a lot of people's lives here. shareholders comie ining in. this is what america is. one reason i like being down on the floor. >> this leads the question of what to do with the company, dean foods. dean foods owns much of whitewave and intends to spin that off. dean foods is looking to sell morning star business and then it will have its fresh dairy business and what sort of valuation do you put on a fresh dairy business at a time when dairy costs seem to be rising. for dean food shareholders, that's a question with whitewave ipo. >> on "mad money" we used a $20 price target using a breakup basically confirmed value. this is a high growth business, white wave. and really dean foods is just the old commodity business. you get a really nice boost for the rest of what they own. i like this stock very much. >> does the broader consumer environment support growth trajectories in premium? anything premium in this case premium dairy? if people are trading down from chipotle, for instance. >> that's great question. if you can genuinely feel -- people this is healthier. milk is like soda and this is a step up. dean isn't going to say our milk business is bad. the whole food halo is one of the most important left in the market. people don't trade from healthy to unhealthy. no. they want to be healthy. >> chocolate milk. >> they have good chocolate milk. >> they have chocolate soy. >> chocolate pudding is delicious. >> we'll talk to dean food chairman and whitewave ceo after this break. as we head to break, look at the early movers on wall street. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 when i'm trading, i'm totally focused. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and the streetsmart edge trading platform from charles schwab... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 gives me tools that help me find opportunities more easily. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i can even access it from the cloud and trade on any computer. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and with schwab mobile, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i can focus on trading anyplace, anytime... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 until i choose to focus on something else. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 trade at charles schwab for $8.95 a trade. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 open an account and trade up to tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 6 months commission-free online equity trading tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with a $50,000 deposit. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 call 1-866-294-5373. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! oh...there you go. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! i'm gonna stand up to her! no you're not. i know. you know ronny folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than a witch in a broom factory. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. celebrating ipo today, whitewave. splitting off from dean foods. shares of whitewave are trading nicely. dean foods is down. we did get a downgrade. let's welcome whitewave. a large shareholder of dean foods. good to see you. >> good morning, jim. great to be here. >> you spoke to me clearly. you have a commodity business but inside that commodity business is a great secular grower. do you think you'll finally get credit for one of the fastest growing natural food businesses in the world? >> i think so. we're already getting credit from the time we announce d untl today we added over a billion dollars of equity market for dean foods. we got a great reception out on the road. really well attended road show. people excited about the growth prospects of this business. we're just thrilled. >> i'm a big user. even though it's more expensive than milk, it lasts longer. constantly throwing out milk. do you think there are people that are all-natural food or people that say it's a bargain longer term because i can keep it in the fridge for a while? >> clearly if you are throwing milk away, the servings are more expensive if you don't fact yfan what you don't consume. if you want 30 calorie serving of almond milk on your cereal, that's a great alternative for a lot of people and it taste great. >> at my house you're not allowed to have that. none of that regular milk. my kids think it's an insult. this is a demographic trend, isn't it? >> if you look at how the product breaks down, it skews young people and young families. >> is there a difference between organic milk and regular milk? price points are different. is there an actual dirchfferenc? i asked a number of pediatric n pediatricians and you get different answers. >> if you take chemicals apart from chemical basis and you look at protein and fat, there's no difference in that regard. organic is how the product is abused. no antibiotics. no hormones. no pesticides used in feed that goes into organic animals. there's a genuine concern about whether or not those things get incorporated in the food and that's what i think drives the organic milk business. >> i think the question at this point as we see dean foods trading lower off the downgrade to a hold, what happens to that business? you mentioned market cap added to dean foods because the expectation of whitewave. morning star, where are you with that sale and what happens to the fresh dairy business? >> as we started into this process, one of the key outcomes of the separation that we're engaging in is to leave the milk business with just a rock solid balance sheet. that's what you're going to see is that the milk business is going to be positioned to compete incredibly well. it's a great business. it's a $10 billion business. 38% market share in the u.s. a category that's not going away. it's a big staple food product. dean foods historic has and will in the future make a lot of money in the milk business. it's a really solid business. eet to support it in its balance strategic endeavors going forward. >> either here or in europe, how likely is a consumer that's pressured to trade down from organic? is it a lifestyle choice once you make it you'll give up something else before you give up that? >> you saw this morning i have four little girls in my household. >> we have a picture of them. >> they're hanging out on the trading floor. >> there's no chance that my wife, molly is going to bring something nonorganic into our household. there's a few things she believes in where our kids should be in terms of nutrition. that's where they'll be in our house. as you see conventional milk prices be more volatile because the organic bilk business is on a domestic market, you see people who aspire to be in organic market moving in. >> don't you gain a soy milk user and lose a fresh dairy user? >> i think the reality is that dairy alternative products, soy, almo almond, they are sourcing volume from larger traditional dairy products category. from whitewave's perspective, the great thing from whitewave perspective is that's a billion dollar of a $50 billion category. there's a lot of volume to source going forward. i personally believe that the plant based alternatives will source from conventional dairy for the rest of our natural lives. i think that's a trend that's here to stay. >> you talked about nutrition and importance of it. obesity is something the country is focussed on. i don't know if you know the numbers but you may. in terms of sales at dean foods, what the are the sales of chocolate milk? i heard it's extraordinarily high. >> it's not single digits somewhere. >> i thought it was higher. >> in terms of total chocolate milk. >> i do love chocolate milk. >> you should try true moo ch e chocolate milk product. less sugar than regular chocolate milk. >> people said we had this drought. costs were up. some of these prices moderating. the scare of drought passed now for you? >> it's not quite as dire as it was in the beginning. it never really is. the important part about this is corn is a crop. we are going to have another crop next year. chances are we won't have as devastating a weather situation as we did this year. i think if you look at the long-term here, you know, we should have seen, i think, late 2012 and early 2013 the peak in these grain markets and if we get decent crops, you'll see it come back to a more normal level. >> what happens to morning star? the estimates in terms of the value. is that what you're looking for? >> we have said we're out there in the market marketing this property. we're not going to comment about valuation until it's done. we have a great process and we're moving expeditiously through that process. >> by year's end? what's the time frame on the sale? >> we're well in our process. they don't have a fixed time line but we hope in the near future we'll have completion of that process. >> i know we went a long time without seeing you on our air and then we got you back starting this summer. welcome back. congratulations. >> thanks so much. we're excited about it. hope to see you again. >> the ticker wwav. whitewave food company. watching apple this morning. up a quarter of a percent after still shaking their heads over the price action last night. >> it was amazing. some people would have knocked apple. it is about 13% lower not including today's actions from its highs reached earlier this month above $700 a share. it was reached on light volume. here we are in the rally back from the session on a technical basis positive for the stock able to hold some ground here. >> kind of embarrassing to watch the trading last night. people knew nothing and they're trading furiously. the after hours people who trade in after hours performance, why don't they just take money and burn it in a chimney? unless you know what the company is saying, you can't trade on the headlines. just doesn't work. >> you have to be on the conference call which starts much later. we want to check on shares of expedia. you mentioned it in your mad dash. people always travel. some analysts are saying that a switch to new technology pl platform is showing large payoffs. expect aations were lower. nice surprise here in trading off that. a gain of 15%. >> only because i have that summit do i know that expedia fills up our rooms overnight. >> they do it. it's turnkey for you. >> they look inside and you have to give them access to your rooms and they book your rooms. you come in. they cut you a check each day. they take their cut. they automated everything. when you go to a major company and say you want to come and stay at our inn. we don't handle that. that's expedia. talk to them. >> it's not every base we get to actually have you comment directly as a participant in the business. >> i didn't know how powerful they were. i didn't want to let them in. they control our reservations? people skip. people skip. no one can skip with expedia because you pay ahead of time. >> shares of priceline up 5.5%. >> yelp. >> and finally with a few seconds left here, jim, facebook faces the expiration. a big one coming on monday. after everything with earnings this week, how cautious are you in front of it? >> this is one i wouldn't be surprised to see the stock does not trade down because of that quarter. i think the shorts didn't all cover. this is going to be it for people. >> let's get to rick santelli in chicago. consumer sentiment. >> october final university of michigan is 82.6. remember, 83.1 was mid month. that disappears. that one when it was released was a five-year high. this number is darn close to a five-year high as well taking us back to september of 2007. 82.6 our final read and now officially follows the final read in september. back to you. >> all right. thank you so much. the dow almost exactly flat on that news. 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[ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real . between black and white on keanswers...world moving. ...and 1,000 shades of grey duff & phelps finds the sweet spot that powers sound decisions. duff & phelps financial advisory and investment banking services. welcome to the world leader in derivatives. welcome to superderivatives. it is with profound sadness that we report a cnbc tragedy. our head of operations here two children die. there are no words to convey the magnitude of this tragedy. we can come together to express our unwavering support for a friend in need. all of us at cnbc and nbc universal will be there kevin, marina and their family. we ask that you keep kevin's family in your hearts. welcome back to "squawk on the street." let's get the road map for the next hour. a lot going on on this friday. we'll kick it off with apple's fourth quarter miss. will the iphone mini give the next quarter a boost and how many iphones 5 do you need to sell? >> disappointing the street so far but with third quarter gdp coming in better than expected, are we gearing for another move higher? amazon posting the first loss in a decade as operating costs are up 28%. are concerns over the miss overblown and how will the kindle stack up this holiday season? >> can a las vegas hotel room actually make you feel better. mgm grand thinks so. we'll take you live to sin city for the launch of a new wellness initiative. back to fourth quarter results which disappointed as ipad sales missed targets. revenue above estimates. shares of apple are trading slightly lower at this point. guys, good to have you both. >> good to be here. >> i want to ask you first, do you think that the price actually seen in apple traded lower in post-market session yesterday and then it recovered and it's holding in there. is it a reluctance to not want to be out of apple shares as you go into what has been a strong quarter for apple? >> i think there are two things. bulls are happy about revenue guidance and management comments that they are making more iphones today than they were earlier in the month. there's clearly good indication that there's going to be strong supply which has been a factor in the phone sales. on the bearish side are people who can pick on things like margin guidance coming down quite a bit. it's highly understandable. a lot of new products. they expect 80% of the revenues to come from new products. lower margin because of where they are in the life cycle and they'll ramp up from here. it's a great opportunity to buy. we think they're going to have a great holiday season with iphones and ipads and they're going to do well this quarter. margin will have upside based on what they guided. >> are these things understandable or are we making up excuses for apple? 36% in margins for the fiscal first quarter. that is the lowest level in about four years. they have a lot of new products. they can't keep up with demand so you risk the customers who can't get hands on an ipad mini. might go to a kindle fire or a nook. >> that's a great point. there's been so much new products and this is an opportunity for some of the competitors and what i think is really interesting, my take away is that even if you are going to look beyond this next quarter, think about this. for calendar 2013, we'll be on the verge of something we have never seen with apple before and that is that we may have a complete year of to see what the true demand is. we really haven't had a quarter of where we haven't had supply issues until about a year ago when the print was 1378. i'm thinking consensus is 50-53. if they solve the supply issues, i think 60-65 over the next year in terms of earnings and that's the next big thing for apple is getting the supply chain to match up with demand and let's see what this company can really do over a course of 12 months just not a quarter or two but what they can earn over the next 12 months. the numbers are higher than what people are thinking about right now. >> somebody e-mails us talking about worries about apple not being as hot a product overseas. she says she has a german friend who said you should go out and switch from a microsoft product to an apple product. no. it's too expensive. she said why don't you want to do it? i need office products. she said you can get office on a mac. she said it was like pulling teeth trying to get the european to graduate into apple. is that reflective of the broader environment overseas and is that going to be a problem? >> clearly it's the high end of the market. clearly a lot of followers who will follow it and keep buying the new product. and in overseas market you'll find a lot of people who are more cost conscious and will buy products that will be cheaper but a different type of value. those are two different types of markets. we think within the market there is a lot of opportunity. as david just pointed out, next year is going to be great year for them because they can achieve demand and supply balance in most products. >> it's going to have to be. if you have a 750 price target from here, you are suggesting that the stock can rise 25%. given where we traded yesterday and the fact that momentum has been lost from it, that may seem -- most people watching this would hope that to be true. the skeptics would say momentum is out of this stock. who else will buy it? >> it's basically as we go into the holiday season, we get more data points about iphone production. they'll launch in china this quarter. it will be in over 100 countries. as we start getting data points they are getting into the holiday season where we see a lot of people that can't get back into the stock. that's what we think going to -- next year we'll have more distribution of the products. it should help us get there. >> when you were speaking about calendar year 2013 being a big one for apple because you're on the verge of seeing what true demand is, i read that as you're entering a period in which there's uncertainty because there's no major product upgrade or a product cycle except for maybe apple tv and maybe apple tv and that will happen likely in the spring of next year which leaves many, many months in which there's no huge new product cycle to drive apple's earnings. in your view, is that going to be a period where the stock doesn't have a catalyst? >> i don't think so. what we've seen over the past few years is every now and then we'll get a clean earnings report, supply and demand is in balance an we have a new significant product upgrade. people sit on their hands and defer purchases. if you think about the product lineup right now, the oldest product right now is a mere four months. so again, this is going to be a different time. not a different time frame but reality with apple where we see the true earning power of this company. i submit between now and christmas, it's going to be like running of the bulls or running of the bears if you will. within just one month, all we're going to be talking about on apple isn't new products. it's how crowded the stores are. it's a different paradigm if you will. a different mindset. i welcome it. i think it will be surprisingly good for apple bulls. >> great to speak to you both. >> thank you. >> speaking of apple, the tech titan is reportedly in talks to license music for a custom radio service likely to be a direct competitor with pandora. julia boorstin joins us now with more on that story. >> that's right, carl. apple and the music labels are in ongoing talks to launch an ad supported streaming service which could present a threat to pandora. apple teedeals are on track to final before the holidays. look at that drop. it's rebounding this morning. jpmorgan out saying pandora is a buy as it will continue to make money on mobile advertising regardless of apple competition. pandora stock dove in september when news of apple's move into the space was first reported. pandora dominates internet radio and is available on more than 600 devices but about half of its listening is on apple devices unlike internet radio which set federal rates, apple negotiate its own deals to offer ondemand streaming which would be similar to another free service. apple would pay the label licensing fee and ad revenue which is a point of concern for the labels as apple has neither a dedicated sales team or nor the best track record with ads. apple isn't the only tech giant threatening pandora. last monday microsoft offered the free service. apple's move into this space makes sense. it wants to profit from the ways people listen to music on its devices and like facebook and google, it sees opportunity in this new surge in mobile advertising. carl? >> julia boorstin, thank you so much. >> incredibly important development. it keeps cropping up on the program. there's something generic happening here. let me give you another example. apple i believe is also working on something called i travel which will be an online travel agency for want of a better expression. google and apple and microsoft also going into this particular area of internet with music. all encroaching on the areas where we see so many small specialized intercompanies at the moment and a lot of them -- i see you are still there could be in difficulty further down the line. we don't know where apple will go next and what business it will challenge. >> absolutely. i think the thing with apple is that it wants people to stay within its ecosystem. it wants to give people a free music service to sell them songs rather than people listening to pandora on its iphones, it wants them to stay within that itunes ecosystem and that's how it is trying to do that. i think what we see with microsoft as well is all of these companies are trying to keep people on their devices in their ecosystem using their search tools so they can capture you will of that revenue opposed to going to expedia app in the example of travel. >> huge moving forward. >> good for all of us to have all of these guys fighting over our -- a volatile start to earnings season and race for the white house just days away. what does it mean for the markets? we'll check in with pimco and get their take. and east coast is bracing for hurricane sandy's landfall. we have a live report in just minutes. a crash management system and the world's only tridion safety cell which can withstand over three and a half tons. small in size. big on safety. [ male announcer ] the exceedingly nimble, ridiculously agile, tight turning, fun to drive 2013 smart. ♪ tight turning, fun to drive 2013 smart. we call this our mission.mpany, green toys teaches children that if i have a milk jug and i stick it in the recycling bin it can turn into something new. chase allows us to buy capital equipment to be able to manufacture in the states to the scale we need to be a global company. with a little luck green toys could be the next great american brand. find what's next for your business at chase.com/mainstreet >> neil joins us this morning from beautiful newport beach. good to have you back. >> great to be here preside. >> bill taking his parallel between our own fiscal environment even farther comparing us to one of the characters in breaking bad. we know how that turned out. with that in mind, how do you hedge the possibility that the cliff is not at least fixed for the short-term in the short-term? >> our base case scenario is that roughly two-thirds of the fiscal cliff will be deferred. we think about 450 billion will get kicked the can down the road for six months or a year and $250 billion will end up still hitting the economy. our outlook is one of muted growth. it should not tip us into recession. there's a lot that can go wrong. the part that's really hard for us to quantify is how much damage democrats and republicans will do to the economy with their fighting. just like a year ago. we didn't default on the debt. they raised the debt ceiling. that was the right thing to do. it kept businesses and individuals on the sidelines. that's the part we're afraid of right now. >> there's already cover of "the washington post" this morning from nam saying uncertainty we have seen cost us a million jobs. sounds like you're talking about close to 0% growth opposed to 2%. >> maybe around 1%, 1.5% growth next year. for the next several months, there aren't many upside scenarios. the election obviously has a lot of uncertainty. there's still a lot of uncertainty coming out from europe. will they keep the eurozone together and reform economies. the next few months i would expect to see increasing volatility toward the end of the year and not big catalyst for upside in equities. there is downside potential and that's what keeps us very cautious right now. >> there's a consensus view that i hear more often these days. you may have heard it. i think i know your answer. basically it goes along this line. we can take the fiscal cliff. if you're worried about the deficit, we have 5 trillion reductions over the next few years that will take care of that. do you think that's an argument that's got anything? >> not a rationale argument. if the full fiscal cliff hit us, we would be back in a recession. it's very hard to tackle these major structural reforms when you are on your back, when you are fighting from a position of recession. it's much better to tackle these even if you are growing moderately you're in a much stronger position and so we need to keep the economy growing in the short-term. i think bernanke is doing whatever he can with monetary policy to try to buy time for the fiscal authorities to make long-term structural reforms but then we need to tackle entitlements and tax reform in a comprehensive manner. that's the upside. if the congress and executive branch can come together and make tough choices, not easy choices, tough choices, then the markets will rally and we'll see upside from here. >> i want to go to your stock picks and specifically samsung on a day when we had apple earnings yesterday. samsung earnings overnight. is samsung in your view an anti-apple pick? do we have to see apple falter for samsung to succeed? >> we don't think so. the smartphone market is a huge global market. there's absolutely room for both samsung and for apple to do well and to thrive and so samsung is still one of our top positions. we trimmed our apple position over the last few months and only have a very small apple stake today. we still are long-term optimistic on samsung and at the right price, we may become buyers of apple again. >> what happens to samsung if apple chooses to cords with samsung in terms of using it as a supplier of components. >> that's important. what if china stops doing business with america. it's a complicated business that are interwoven. it's in apple's interest to have a strong, healthy samsung as a p partner and supplier and vice versa. >> good to see you. we'll see you next time. >> let's stick with the subject of earnings. keeping a record of which companies are coming up, it says here with the worst excuses for their big misses. do you still blame the ceos? >> you know what? it depends. we'll blame all sorts of things here. deck the company put out bad guidance after the close yesterday. they didn't just blame the weather. they blamed the hot weather, mild weather, cold weather and the warm weather. in fact, deckers mentioned weather 40 times on its earnings call. while they were at it, they blame the economy in europe, economic uncertainty and growing trend of buy now wear now which pushed back selling season. in other words, everything -- wait a minute. they also blamed the olympics. while these are legitimate excuses, the critics think these excuses deflect from a more critical issue at deckers and maybe the shoes are not the fashion trend they used to be. a bigger issue with deckers is who knew what when? the stock as we reported yesterday after 4:00 took a steep dive in the last 30 minutes of trading just before the bad news hit. meanwhile, over at diamond foods which is a name we haven't mentioned for a while, it has nothing to do with excuses but it has everything to do with explanations which we're still waiting for. in the midst of earnings news yesterday, the company announced it is still working on its long awaited restatement of two years worth of income statements in the wake of improper accounting of payments. now includes two additional quarters. the company has been working on trying to keep itself listed on the nasdaq. still in an interim period there. simon, back to you. >> buy now, wear now. i remember that through the weekend. >> you do that, simon. you buy now and you wear now. >> do i? >> i would imagine. you are a fashionable fellow. >> united airlines pilots are fuming after a removal of a safety device. we have details next on the program. still to come, a vegas first. a shower infused with vitamin c arriving in sin city today. >> how does that help you? >> would you pay 20% to 30% more to stay in a hotel designed for the health conscious traveler? we'll take you live inside the debut of the wellness rooms at the mgm grand next.wo . and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. it's just common sense. mike rowe here at a ford tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee... affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. buy four select tires, get a $60 rebate. use the ford service credit credit card, get $60 more. that's up to $120. where did you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer. they optimized our data center and got us on the cloud. they even sent tour champion, paula creamer, to help with charles' swing. maybe don't do that. that's not good. no! his job isn't to look good. it's to make the clients look good. oh my goodness! i can't help you. that's what i thought. if your tv were a glass of milk, zeebox would be a double chocolate chip cookie. when they unite...magic. cookie! [ male announcer ] and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't deserve the extra chocolate chips. download zeebox free, and make magic when you watch tv. melissa, since 9/11 cockpit safety has been a priority to the pilots wonder why united removed this which came preinstalled as standard equipment. united took possession of the boeing dreamliner, first of many it would get last month and pilots confirm the second barrier is gone. it drapes across the galley to prevent someone from rushing in. why take it out? federal rules do not require the second barrier. in this merger, the planes coming in from united almost all of them have it and none of the continental planes do i'm told. the airline tells cnbc flight security has various components with secondary barriers being one that we use in different combination. security matrix can vary from one type of aircraft to another. we're thorough in carrying out our security responsibilities for every flight but safety and security of our employees and customers are our top priorities. pilots are not happy. they sent management a letter saying if safety is a top priority, stop stripping them of the safety measure that guarantees cockpit is protected. john russell is a united pilot and union representative. >> to remove the barrier, what are you telling your passengers? what are you telling your employees? you tell them safety is a priority. you are telling them something different. >> and this letter was written over a week ago to united ceo. he came over from continental in the merge. he's the widow of united captain whose plane was flown into the south tower on 9/11. >> i was indignant. i was furious. to install these as standard equipment in an airplane and for united airlines to pay extra to remove these barriers when these barriers are needed. >> she has not heard back from the airline. back to you. >> important story to watch. thanks so much. amazon posting its first quarterly loss in a decade. shares are higher this morning. what's behind the move and how will kindles stack up against the latest mini addition. one hour through the trading day. these are the stories we're talking about. university of michigan's consumer sentiment index posting below the forecast and down from mid month levels. devry shares are soaring. and roller coaster debut for whitewave foods opening sharply and then wiping out its gains. trading 1% below the ipo price of $17 a share. dean foods from which it was spun off trading down by 11% as well. now back to another earnings miss from last night. shares of amazon are up today after falling slightly in after-hours trading. the first quarterly loss in nearly ten years was posted. companies saying the law stem from the ownership stake and living social. anthony is internet media analyst with barclays. welcome back. >> how are you doing? happy friday. >> same to you. your report titled great consumer brand troubled stock. walk us through that and then tell us why it's up today. >> i think it's up today because you have some relief that earnings revisions weren't negative. they also weren't positive. you have a company that trades at 100 times next year's earnings. 50 times 2014 with revenue growth starting to decelerate just a bit one would think that we should need positive earnings revisions for this stock to really work and fulfill that high multiple. >> your current target, you were at 230. are you still at 220? >> yes. our target is based on 25 times free cash flow. the thing here is that -- the thing here is that people think they're going to get a positive earnings revision in january because we got that earnings revision this year, right? so the stock actually was great in the first quarter of 2012. hedge fund investors i talk to want to own it into the end of the year. if you look at performance, the stock went down each month of the year last year and it usually declines in december. it was down in december each of the last three years. you may not get gratification or positive earnings revision until we get to january and of course company spending aggressively fundamentally on media content and data centers. it can't even guarantee that we'll get a lift in operating margins when we get the next report in january. some uncertainty here. >> i many, you know, it may have gone down a few months but it's gone up a lot over the last year as we see right there, anthony. investors seem to have more patience with this name perhaps than any other name out there. why don't you believe that will continue to be the case? >> it's a fantastic consumer brand and people that use it love it. the thing is you've got a company that is taking corporate profits and excess free cash flow that may go to equity holders and reinvest into lower prices and convenience to the consumer. they are sucking out margins from the rest of retail. the question is when do shareholders get gratification or returns on amazon strategy? does satisfying the consumer always mean that in the long run you're ultimately going to satisfy the shareholder? i'm sorry, shareholders are greedy and want earnings and free cash flow. we don't have that fl a.rom ama. we have to look out two to three years to see the possibility of that. i think people have been patient with it because revenue growth has been awesome. now we saw in the third quarter that revenue growth is slowing just a tad. fourth quarter guide is for another decel. if the company grows at mid 20s or low 20s instead of high 20s, you have a top line decel. i love the brand. i love the service. i'm having hard time getting into that shareholder value. >> >> a $2 million fine. the citi fine, the journal says, is for disclosure of confidential information regarding facebook. mahaney terminated. we'll bring you more if we get it. you own more than 34,000 shares of amazon. channing, if you're going to go short into the holiday season on amazon, you better be sure of yourself, right? >> we take a little bit longer view than anthony. you know, what we're focused on is gross margins. that's what is really going to determine the value of the stock going forward to us. amazon has been in a transition for the last two years. really since 2010 it's been investment. investment and fulfillment centers and investment in technology. we see that management team is making a big investment in digital media. we think that will pay off. there's a huge investment there. margins are pumping along the bottom. if you look back to 2010, margins were in that 4.5% range. we think the stock will get back to that level once we get through the investment phase. the key is how successful is digital going to be? digital media is 13% of revenues. if they continue to grow, they are higher margin product categories and stock could see higher margins in the future. you have to be patient. >> can i speak to that? >> is there a point at which even shareholders say you cannot -- it's your money. we're not going to let you spend it the way you want all of the time. 100%. is there any discipline imposed by shareholders? >> it's why it's a 1.5% position in our portfolio. they have a great track record. people question when they brought third-party retailers in. they questioned them with amazon prime and he proved them wrong. he does have some wiggle room. going forward is going to be tough. as we move into digital, wyou'r not competing with apple and you're competing with google that have established networks on digital media space. the road will be tougher. it's a challenge. it's not a foregone conclusion that amazon is going to succeed over the next ten years. they're in position now. we see margins going up. kindle fire is getting traction. necessary evil to get into this media space. it's a big question mark. can they be successful in media? if they can, we think stock will move higher. if they have to rely on lower margin general merchandise in electronics, the stock is overvalued at this point. >> anthony, i want to go back to the news that we just broke that mark mahaney of citi has been terminated. the termination follows the $2 million fine from regulators over the disclosure of information surrounding the ipo. as an analyst, what sort of information could you imagine that could be surrounding an ipo and should every analyst who covers facebook be a little bit nervous at this point? >> i think you know that i can't comment on that. i just can't comment. can we go back to the amazon? i want to just talk about what was said about the bull case on gross margins. it's interesting. so one of the bull cases is that amazon gross margins are expanding and they have in the last two quarters. operating margins are not. so you have cyclicality in the margin that will come back. the reason they are expanding is because of third party. fulfillment stand alone. that requires investment in big fulfillment centers. you can't look at gross margin in isolation. same with amazon web services. all of the data centers that amazon invests in require operating expense. on the media content, you look at the content deals they're doing for amazon prime. that's a free service. they're giving that content to the customer. it's a subscription service in some ways because you pay for it with $79 in prime. we have seen with netflix that business is not necessarily an economic business in terms of returns. so i don't think -- i have sort of changed my mind on this. i don't think we can look at gross margin in isolation for amazon going forward. we have to look at the fully loaded operating margin. >> i would agree with that, anthony. you look at costs to get sold and that's not include. third party sales are a big part of that margin expansion story. i think the key is that digital. if they can be successful there. i would also say when you look at the fulfillment centers, you know, they'll build that out and at that point there will be less investment there. so that's also going to boost. is it going to be a game changer? probably not. the investment mode they're in right now is impacting margins and we can argue about what extent of that will be. i would look out if you're investing in a stock not at the next quarter but next year or two if you want to play the stock. >> what fun is that? anthony, thanks so much. we'll see you later. >> thanks. have a great weekend. >> we do have breaking news on facebook. kayla tausche is back at hq. >> federal agents arrested a new york state man who has in the past sued mark zuckerberg claiming he has a contract granting him 50% of the company. now, we expect the details will be unveiled a little bit later today. it is believed that the charges do relate to that disputed contract. he sued facebook back in 2010 claiming the contract went back to 2003 and alleged contract between him and mark zuckerberg. facebook denied this claim saying that he doctored documents. the legal team quit in june. we haven't heard much since then. we understand he's been arrested by federal agents today. >> thank you very much. meanwhile, extraordinary new details of how he was ousted from citi. should the bank have been more fort coming from the beginning? the former s.e.c. chairman will join us next on cnbc. for your legal matters. maybe you want to incorporate a business you'd like to start. or protect your family with a will or living trust. legalzoom makes it easy with step-by-step help when completing your personalized document -- or you can even access an attorney to guide you along. with an "a" rating from the better business bureau legalzoom helps you get personalized and affordable legal protection. in most states, a legal plan attorney is available with every personalized document to answer any questions. get started at legalzoom.com today. and now you're protected. get started at legalzoom.com today. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! oh...there you go. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! i'm gonna stand up to her! no you're not. i know. you know ronny folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than a witch in a broom factory. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. this morning in "the new york times," pandit was presented with three options by the company chairman according to the report. resign now, resign later or get fired. harvey pitt is with us. good to get your insights. we had you on during the day in question. a lot of questions about the events as they went. "times" reporting here is most likely quite accurate. was there an obligation on the part of citi to tell us what was going on opposed to presenting it as his decision which appears to not be the case. >> this makes a mockery of corporate disclosure requirements. i believe it will be seen as a violation of the federal securities laws. >> why? the process described here is one that's gone on at many companies in the past. it's not that rare that when they want a ceo out, they tell him but they plan for it in a better way perhaps and it is presented as a voluntary resignation. why is this any different even if it unfolded over a very short amount of time. >> what makes this different is that there were specific concerns about pandit's leadership and that this was a board decision. investors and the investing public have the right to understand what the board's processes were. the fact that pandit chose an option and therefore chose voluntarily to leave is one thing. the rationale for his departure and the fact that it was at the board's impetus is something that should have been disclosed. i don't think you can play fast and loose with information like this which is material to the public. >> although the stock didn't actually -- do they have a case to be made here? they didn't really suffer losses. the stock did not react negatively to the news itself. does it come into play at all? >> that would only come into play if private parties sued. the s.e.c.'s concern would be is this the way we want corporations to handle their disclosure obligations and in particular the person who seems to have made the most affirmative statement was mr. o'neill who said this was absolutely voluntary as i recall. if that's true, he has a lot of explaining to do in the fact that the stock didn't move is not relevant in terms of what the disclosure obligation should have been. >> harvey o'neill is the chairman of the board and so e, you know, if it is found that there were federal security laws broken, what could happen? what could be the penalty? what could be the punishment? do you think the s.e.c. wants to make this an example because it involves a chairman of a board? >> the s.e.c. has a lot of authority including the power to seek from a court an order that bars any person that violates the security laws and commits what is deemed to be fraud from serving as an officer or director of a public company. i don't know that this will be that kind of a case and all of the facts will have to be assessed but it does strike me that his conduct clearly contradicts what the spirit and letter of disclosure law is supposed to be. >> i think we sort of covered this on the day of but the difference between a regulator taking aim and shareholder filing a suit as a result of these facts, does it make a difference? are they open to shareholder litigation? >> they may be. the fact that nobody suffered any damages makes this an unappealing shareholder case. some might argue that that would be relevant even if a regulator's case but the regulators will look at the nature of the conduct and the shareholders would look to recoup losses. if there weren't any losses, there's really no lawsuit. >> are you saying they would have been better off saying nothing? is there an obligation to say anything or only because they said something that seems to have not been true? >> this is an affirmative -- it seems like it's an affirmatively false statement. the law doesn't necessarily distinguish like -- between those. i would think they would not have been better off saying nothing, but given the choice between saying nothing and lying, i think saying nothing was a better choice. >> usually is. harvey, appreciate it. thank you. still ahead in the show, can a las vegas hotel room actually make you feel better? the mgn grande in sin city hoping to do just that. we'll take you live for the latest on mgm's stay well rooms. vegas gets a first today. hotel rooms designed to make you more healthy. the 44 wellness rooms debut at the mgn grande. each room has features designed to reverse jet lag and better regulate your body, while they say removing toxins and allergens. the hope is that health-conscious travelers will pay 20% to 30% more to stay in them. we have the features, co-founder, and president and coo of mgm grande drove the project through. both of them joining us live. thank you for joining us. we actually sent a camera crew to the rooms. >> great. >> the first thing we shot here is the shower. >> yeah. >> that injects -- look at the shower -- injects vitamin c into the stream. what is it for? >> vitamin c is great for your skin and hair and scripps cletr chlorine from water. guest enjoy smoother skin, better hair. >> the lights that mimic dawn and blue flashing lights that remove jet lag. >> the dawn simulator is the scientifically proven best way to wake up. it gently lets you awaken. and the flashing lights make you more alert and energetic. >> all of the major hotel chains are now massively investing to innovate in this sort of way. we'll see that over the next year, 18 months starting to come out. why did you choose this idea? uf got a big choice at mgm. you could take any brand, any innovation. why this? >> we're constantly looking at ways to improve the guest experience. at the same time improve our growth opportunity. and we were so impressed with the research they've done on the products, and the studies we've done, we found that there is a customer that is inspired by this. they want this when they travel. this is their lifestyle at home, why not bring it to las vegas? >> will they pay 2 % or 30% -- 20% or 30% open? as you open today, are you able to price at that premium? >> so far we've booked over 300 room nights. today's the first check-inment and we thi -- check-in. we think the premium we're charging we'll be able to get. >> how much is the upgrade to make these well not rooms? i'm wondering how long it takes to recoup the costs. >> it's hard to dedicate the cost of the wellness rooms because it's part of a $1160 million room renovation that we just completed. was combined in the efforts with the 44 rooms that we turned into stay-well rooms. >> you've done specific work on. this you believe the cost, additional capital investment, be it in hotel rooms or real estate, is quite small. therefore, it is a huge return for entrepreneurs and therefore major business or for a lot of people -- >> we do believe that. we've learned a lot from the greensboro indust green industry and enhancement costs to green rooms. it's comparable to green or mood certification. >> green saves energy. so it saves on costs. wellness rooms, you can't -- it doesn't trickle down to the business p&l, does it? how -- >> we think the market opportunities for wellness is tremendous. it's the fastest growing industry in the world. there are travel-oriented wellness consumers. >> let me ask a final question. groups and corporates were the first part in 2008 and they've been back -- i hear the competition for conventions, putting it away for municipalities away from vegas is huge for next year. how are your bookings? >> they're absolutely -- bookings look strong for 2013 and going into 2014. they're almost to the point where they were before the downturn in the economy. so things are really looking good with the convention business. >> nice to meet you both. thank you. >> thanks. >> thanks you to. see you tonight. simon, see you in 30. we'll talk a little bit of europe, as well. if you're just joining us -- we'll do the tape in a second. when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. welcome to hour three of "squawk on the street." here's what's happening so far. >> we need to put in place a framework so that markets look and see that after the economy recovers, whenever that comes, it will take time. after the economy is fully recovered, that the nation's finances are sustainable. >> we need to have both sides kind of go -- one hand, $250,000 in income, on the other hand, effectively infinity, they need come together in some way or we're not going to have a deal. >> our first look at third quarter gdp, 2.0. 2%. >> you're in some weird mode. whatever is said, if it's positive, it's a lie. i'm not buying that. these are good numbers, reverse the market. it's for real. >> some of the reviews have been even rougher from microsoft which this two presentations yesterday as we know. one for windows 8 in terms of running it on everything else, then for the surface. some reviews have been brutal. >> is $39 too high? when you go into an apple store, do you go, this is $39 too high? i got to go -- i need to see what the dollar tree has. [ bell ] [ applause ] >> now our outlook for the u.s. economy is one of muted growth. but strong enough growth that that $200 billion or $250 billion fiscal drag should not tip us into recession. good friday morning. welcome back to post nine of the new york stock exchange. check the markets on a day where the dow is in the red. we started the day out relatively flat, up a little bit. we loftst some ground. s&p 500 down 6.5. white wave foods, the dean foods spinoff, making its trading debut at the nyse. shares opening at 19. pulling back a bit, trading around 17. dean foods also down sharply. the ceo was on the show earlier, addressing the company's balance sheet. >> a category that's not going away. it's a big staple food product. and dean foods historically has and will make money in the milk business. it's a solid business. now it's going to have a really solid balance sheet to support the strategic endeavors going forward. >> meantime expedia, priceline, some of the biggest gainers after expedia reported better than expected results. and benchmark citing to buy at a solid execution. a tale two of apples. the company missing earnings but selling enough white ipad minis to sell out in about 20 minutes. we'll find out which story should matter most to investors. plus, just as facebook seems to have found its footing, another lockup ex-police statlo. should you sell going into the weekend? then hurricane sandy bearing down on the east coast. we're tracking the storm and with several refineries in the path, what could that mean for oil prices? and apple on track to launch its own internet music service. the news spooking investors in pandora. we'll find out if pandora really has anything to fear from apple. that's coming up. we'll starts wi with breaki news. internet analyst mark ma haney being dismissed from citigroup. we have more what turned out to be a barn-burner of a story. carl, the termination comes in the face of a $2 million fine that citigroup faced from a massachusetts regulatedor, largely concerning failure to supervise analysts. mahaney as well as an unnamed junior analyst in a consent order we just reviewed from the state of massachusetts, noting that mahaney gave reports to a reporter at the french capitol over revenue estimates for youtube, a subsidiary of google. revenue estimates that had yet to be published by by mahaney. the junior analyst shared a preview of the forthcoming reports on facebook even as citigroup signed a nondisclosure agreement with the social network in conjunction with that poip. t osteoporosis -- ipo. when asked whether that could be published, he said, "my boss would eat me alive." an interesting story for citigroup and the analyst community. a lot of them are quick to make comments. mahaney, according to the consent order, made the comments to the french reporter. then when the approval was signed said he did not respond. going back on his words. a very interesting read if you pull it up. that's the latest now. >> also raises questions about the degree to which senior analysts like mark who was perhaps the biggest gun at ci citi in a lot of ways responsible for the junior team. >> i think that's exactly right. obviously the junior -- if you go and read this e-mail correspondence, the junior reporter was merely sharing it with a reporter at tech crunch to give a sense of how the street was viewing the facebook ipo. when you share the information with a reporter, you're opening up a whole other can of worms. it largely raises questions about maybe the culturn that group, carl. >> all right. thank you very much for that. now to the ipad mini. the newest gadget sold out on line. john ford tracking numbers, here with the latest. john? >> hey. we have at least one sign of a strong strong for the ipad mini less than an hour after opening at 3:00 a.m. eastern. the white mini sold out. apple won't be shipping many for weeks. many who preordered the black version are being told it will arrive a week from today. it's hard to read too much in the first hours, apple tends to make fewer white versions and sometimes has a harder time puttingle this togeth le thilel putting them together. selling out of white minis might not be a huge deal. two signals i'll be looking for. one, will apple put out a release letting us know how preorders are going? two, we'll have to look at apple stores a week from today. will there be lines? will apple staff up like it's an iphone launch? even if the ipad mini preorder demand looks strong, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. apple made it clear yesterday that the profit margin on the minutesy y mini is blow the market average. it's clear it uses the same materials as the iphone 5. this is not cheap. if you're an apple noinvestor, i look at this as apple spending a ton of money to push devices out and capture holiday demand? is this an invest that will pay off in the medium term? or thcould this be the new realy for apple margins? from what i heard yesterday, it sounds like this is an investment apple hope will pay off later. >> that is a key, key question, john. thank you very much. something that hasn't happened in more than a decade. apple missing earnings expectations for the second quarter in a row, and the company warns of a drop in holiday earning because its gadgets are so expensive to make. should you be bobbing for apple at these levels? eric jackson is an apple shareholder, founder of iron fire capital. still has an aggressive longer term priets targprice target an scott kessler, cut his price target from apple to 800 to 700. good morning to both of you. eric, everybody's worried, three quarters in a row. margins down. john asks the question, are we in a newi iity for margins? do you care? >> i think margins are obviously a concern. and nestedably they're going to go down because -- i'm expecting that the volumes that apple's going to sell of all their products is going to increase over time. so how they manage that will be a key thing on earnings which is obviously a driver of the stock. now take a step back in relation to analysts' earnings for the quarter. last quarter they sold nearly 27 million fountains. -- million iphones. in the quarter, there were 440 million sold worldwide, smart phones or dump phones. apple hedge e only honly has a . i think it's reasonable to assume that more people will buy smartphones and apple will get a chunk of the business. you know, if they only got a 35% share of that larger number, we're talking about 155 iphones in a quarter. and i think that's where we are headed a few years from now. >> yeah. scott, going from 800 to 700, that's not an insignificant move even though you keep the buy. what's your thinking? >> the thinking is pretty clear. over the last number of quarters, they've shown that the business is more product and hit driven than it's ever been. that increases the rate of challenge in terms of execution. also increases the volatility in the stock. nonetheless, we expect a very big and successful holiday season for apple. really no other company comes close at this point. and now we think with the ipad mini, folks who were looking for a form factor smaller than the ipad have somewhere to go other than amazon and google, for example. >> yeah. the big chats e-- chatter was pattern recognition. they're looking for the sandbag. they've done this before, cautious guidance, come in three months later and beat it by a mile. is that trend getting tired? are they really going do that again, scott? >> it remains to be seen. it seemed like the guidance particularly in terms of gross margin which john was talking about earlier, that seemed particularly conservative. we understand that the ipad mini has higher costs, a new product. so's the iphone 5. and so's the new ipad. but the reality is that a 400 boun basis points sequential reduction seems important to us. >> you said $1,600 in three years or five years? >> three years. >> three years. you've also pointed out that we have seen corrections in the stock beyond the 14% that we -- hard to remember it's been so long. you say we've seen corrections as severe as 42%. are you calling for that in the near term? i mean, how much damage can be done between now and 1,600 if that's what happens? >> it's hard to say. i think now we're about 14% below the all-time high of 705, just a month ago. you know, my -- my gut feeling is that we're probably close to the trough here on this particular pullback, about 14% which, again, not that all significant when you go back. i think since in the last eight years there have been between -- pullbacks of between 17 and -- you know, in '08, 52% in terms of pullbacks. they were always followed up by huge run-ups, sometimes a doubling of the stock or more. i think probably we're in a holding pattern at the beginning of this quarter until we see how the minis sell. i funding people get a sense that the minis are a hit, you could see the stock start to ramp back up again toward the end of the year. >> that mentality changes quickly as we know. guys, have a great weekend, thanks for your insight on a tough quarter to analyze. scott kessler, eric jackson. at least one company is trading at some all-time highs. we have that back at h.q. brian? eastman chemical dating back to 1994 when it split from kodak. they reported late yesterday eps was a beat, revenues light. we've heard that story obviously in the entire earnings season. the key here is they increased their eps guidance not only above what they said before but also well above consensus. it's trading with heavy volume. back to you. >> all right. talk to you in a bit. now to the cme group. rick santelli talking some global stimulus and a lot of people, rick, think there is more to come in the near future. >> absolutely rights. -- absolutely right. almost as if the batman sign goes up, a big sign in the sky that says "we want more stimulus." you know what, it isn't the u.s. at this point. maybe it's europe, but i'm referring specifically to japan. okay? and you know, here's something fascinating. many people in this country think we're really unique. we have gridlock in the government. we have debt we can't afford. and we keep wanting to add more and more, and the government's very ineffective at dealing with the problems. hence, the fiscal cliff. but it transcends borders. it's japan, it's europe, to some extents it's china. and the funny part about it is it isn't unique. they're all experiencing it. so japan, they're calling potentially for new elections, why? because the opposition government doesn't want to give more stimulus money. what has it done? so they might run out of money in november. it's like a bad rerun. we have a lot of people, a cross section of america on this trading floor today. they're from l.a., kansas city. >> miami -- >> miami. and when they walked on the floor, the first thing they said to me was, do you want more stimulus or not -- >> no stimulus! >> i'll tell you, it's just so funny how it just seems to transcend. we have some democrats, we have some republicans. but one thing seems assured now. whatever medicine is being administered, it knows no boundaries. really doesn't seem to be making a difference. and as we come to elections in this country, we're so not unique. leaders around the globe had to deal with a crisis. and have they done it well? do you think they've done it well? >> no. >> no! >> are you proud of your leaders? >> no way. >> when you vote, are you going votes in the same people or vote out the incumbents, what i hear from everybody? whether it's japan, whether it's greece, whether it's spain which, by the way, 25% unemployment today, deterioration in the euro. we will continue to march on to try to fix what ails the globe. one thing we know for sure -- that the rerun we get over and over and over isn't funny, isn't interesting, and it isn't working anymore. carl, back to you. >> rick, the voice of the people. hard to argue with that. thank you very much. we'll come back to you in a bit. when we return, facebook has had a pretty solid week so far. that could all change on monday. for the second time since the ipo, a lockup on millions of shares will be lifted. we'll show you how you should be playing the stock ahead of the expiration. later, hurricane sandy barreling toward the east coast bringing both rain and snow. we have a live report. plus how it might impact the energy market. mike rowe here at a ford dealer with a little q&a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee... affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. buy four select tires, get a $60 rebate. use the ford service credit credit card, get $60 more. that's up to $120. where did you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer. you're taking a look at how facebook shares performed the week of its first lockup expiration in august. that was painful. a second expiration looms on monday. current and former employees of the social network will be able to sell shares for the first time. question is, how do you play it ahead of that expiration? victor anthony is a senior analyst at topeka capital markets. kept his buy through the summer since the ipo reined in its price targets at 34. good to have you back. i guess the thinking, most people say, if you're liking it, if you are tempted at some of these prices and given the quarter you might want to wait. is that -- is that safe to say? >> i not that's safe to say. you know, i think they're entering the lockup periods with the wind to their back. it was a great quarter. they clearly refuted the bad news on the stock which is more -- which i thought was -- would have become a part of the revenue mix. it happened several quarters ahead of my expectations. but it was great. it was only on one -- they've since launched several other ad units, the gifts, free commerce, mobile ad network, facebook ad network, as well. and mobile ad installs. all of these setting up facebook to reaccelerate against in the fourths quarter. they're entering lockups with the wind to their back. however, based on past history, i have no reason to believe that the owners of the stock won't sell. i don't know their liquidity issues, i don't know their time horizon. so you know, i wouldn't advise people to wait it out and then jump into the stock in a big way. i think the stock goes into the 30s. >> hard it put your mind in the head of an employee. >> right. >> there are tax implications coming here -- >> exactly. >> chances are this will be movement on it. what are expectations for the quarter we're now in? >> i think it's ticking it up significantly. say it was 14% of revenues in the third quarter. i think it will be 20%-plus in the fourth quarter. you're looking at mobile probably becoming roughly close to 50% of revenues over the next year and a half. so it's changed expectations. like i said, i think it's refutesed the bear thesis in a big way. i think the company fundamentally is on good pharmaceuticaling n ifooting now. >> do you see big marketers come on line, basically refuting what g.m. said months ago? that is, we are in. they've proven the return to us, and we're going to be making investments on this platform? >> well, you know, i've spoken to several ad agencies, several marketers, as well, over the past few months. it's still experimental. they're running facebook, learning how to use it, learning the metrics. trying to understand the roi and how to benefit from the platform. but you're seeing the walmarts, seeing the amazons, the big brand advertisers, procter and gambles. they're advertising on facebook. they're on a desktop, on the mobile feed, as well. so they're coming around. i think when they learn how to use the platform better, i think you will see all of them rush in in a big way. >> finally, i don't know if you've seen the news on one of your rivals, mark mahaney at citi, on your beat. he's been terminated according to the "wall street journal." it looks at this early stage that it appears to have had something to do with a junior analyst, disclosing information, as well. does that weigh on the community in terms of how you manage your staff? >> well, you know, i've only seen the headlines. from what i know about mark ma haney, he's a great analyst, great guy, i've met him. that's unfortunate. i think it definitely will force people to reassess how they function and work together. >> we'll see what happens with that on monday. thanks for coming in. >> thank you. when we come back, the u.s. economy grew by 2% in the third quarter. that was better than expected. still might not be enough to offset the effects of that fiscal cliff. we'll see what the ceo of blackrock had to say next. 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>> you know, it's hard to say. i don't think there's any particular trend there. the inventory numbers will be rejiggered, probably the investor numbers. everything can come in. trade is a big factor, inventory's a big factor. hard to know, carl. right now it just -- it doesn't change your mind, right? had the number been 2.5 or 3%, i would have said, hey, time to rethink the economy. 2%, 1.8%, six of one, half a dozen of another. >> we'll get a lot of numbers t. >> we'll get to the european close in 2:38. simon hobbs here in a moment. if we want to improve our schools... ... what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated equipment? they can help, but recent research shows... ... nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... all ] i'm with scottrade. the european markets are closing now. >> a lot of attention stateside with the gdp number and earning. spanish unemployment always lingers, simon. >> yes. absolutely. absolutely. and 25% one and four. today you had the finance minister coming through to explain that and saying they needed more labor reform. to be honest, while they have their news conference in madrid, the bigger issue for many as far as spain was concerned is that you had the ue.u., imf, done a lot on banking. furthered the banking situation. that seems to have buoyed the markets. if you're in market, you're more focused now on u.s. affairs like the fiscal cliff for direction and arguably what's happening there. you've got a move higher. the result was we pushed down yields on spanish bonds. but the biggest story is this growing belief that spain is pushing out the idea that it will apply for the bailout and therefore the ecb will generally buy their bonds and during the week you've had a gentle rising in rates, not serious, not dramatic. they are beginning to drift higher as people sell out of the margin there. spain is -- as we learned, is basically funded all that it needs to on the markets. this year the government more or less is talking about funding next year. will they bother to ask for a bailout before the end of the year? that's one of the next catalysts that many people in europe are looking for. let's look at where we are on the weekly performance. what's interesting is according to reuters -- and it's obvious really that more european companies would miss their earnings estimates than the u.s. because they will be more weighted to economies in europe which obviously are performing far worse than the rest of the world. reuters now says 40% of e.u. companies have missed earnings estimates so far this earnings season. whereas in the united states, it's closer to 30%. interestingly, during the course of the week, we've kind of traded the same on both sides of the atlantic. this is the top 30 blue chips or the dow. this is the top 50 blue chips within the eurozone. similar for the week overall. for the record, more profit warnings for today coming through ranstad, a large dutch temporary employer. warning that conditions are deteriorating in france and germany. that stock down 5%. ericsson, what a business, selling those mass -- the equipment from mobile phones, down again today. marine harvest is the largest salmon producer in the world. i think that's got more to do with the environment and how many salmon they'll catch moving forward. they down. there are always bright spots. as jim cramer would say, always a bull market somewhere. bank of america is suggesting that you should buy strauman, a medical devices operator over in switzerland. that stock has done well. there you go, up 8.5%. and belgercom -- belgacom, deutsche telekom in belgium, raising estimates for next year. >> have a great weekend,citement -- weekend, simon. >> thanks. >> pleasure. >> let's get to rick santelli at the cme talking bailouts in europe. of course, it's a big topic. and our head guest is dimitri. my first question is a simple one. let's start with greece and go to europe proper. do you think the current bailouts and revised bailouts and new bailouts ultimately going to work and save greece? >> i would say the simple answer is now. but you know, the european leaders haven't understood this. they applied the first bailout, and the results were abysmal. unemployment is unprecedented. people have 25% unemployment, their poverty is at the all-time high, and also i have the social conditions that actually deteriorating. there are more suicides, soup kitchens and so on. to answer your question, no, it will not work. i think that the bailout will be passed by the parliament. but when supplied, it's going to give us again abysmal results. something different is needed. >> before we get to what may be needed, let's open to europe proper. we obviously would see what's going on with spain, and you know, yesterday reuters reported that the finance minister in spain said, listen, 95% of my funding needs for the year on done. but then you have the 17 autonomous regions that are crying that they need funding. can you weigh in on this, and also whether the medicine that's being potentially applied in spain's case is going to turn out any better than what you said about greece? >> well, one can understand very well why the prime minister of spain is reluctant to seek a bailout because as we know the bailouts come with very tight strings attached. and even though some of the austerity measures have been applied in spain by the government, they expect those measures will become even harsher and avoid that. whether they will be able to ultimately avoid the bailout, i think it's a big question. as you say, the regions are expecting a bailout from the central government. the central government is running out of money. so unless something different happens in the -- in brussels and in berlin, i think we will see a repetition of what happened in portugal and especially in greece. >> well, dimitri, we have one minute left. if you right now were put in charge. european bailout -- in charge of the european bailout, what change would you make? making them simple or overreaching, do you have suggestions? >> yes. i would use a marshall-type plan for development in the countries of southern europe. those countries cannot be competitive and cannot be competitive through an internal depreciation by having low wages. that kind of a competitive cannot happen because it will be erased to the bottom. the second thing is i would put a banking union so that i can have insurance for all the deposits, will avoid the bank runs. and the fourth thing is i'm going to try to create a fiscal union because a monetary union does not work. it allows the experiment to separate governments from their sovereign currency. this is something that has not worked and will not work. >> dimitri, thank you, a succinct wrap-up. back to you. thanks. bob, the market in your words, have disappointed everyone. >> this is why people go nuts dealing with the stock market. everyone was sets up for volatility today. going up or down, something happening. nobody was set up for nothing because that's what happened. it's about apple. apple tends to be volatile the morning after earning historically. look what happens. apple opens, it's down about 1% but opened flat. that made people crazy. the markets are basically flat. the volatility level is basically flats. up and down a little, it's flat. and the volume is light. nobody was thinking that this was going to happen. everybody was thinking something was going to happen. now apple, traditionally volatile the morning. put up apple, i'll show what's going on here. q3, stock was down 4%. q2 next day, stock up almost 10%. then 8% -- they're set up, either options are up 5%, down 5%. and what happens -- it closes at 6:09 last night, opens at 6:09. nobody set up for that to happen. it's frustrated. the greatest number of potential investors that are out there. let me move on. you get the point. this is why people go crazy dealing with the stock market. let me show you other things of what's going on. there's a little worry about the banks. they've been drifting lower all morning. they've had a fairly rough week. and this is the thing they're watching for, long-term movements around the net interest margins being weak. these banks are down 2% to 3% for the weekend or week again. let me show you the q3 earnings picture. so far, better today. remember, earnings basically have been flat for the quarter. but the big story have been the revenues. the revenues were expected to be up about 5% even just a couple of months ago. now it's down to 1.3%. that's been the story for the whole week. and that's how people are trying to adjust their numbers. there's been a lot of discussion about whether we should be taking down their stock exposure on this. barry ridholz discussed this the other day, bringing down exposure based on the weaker revenue numbers. he talked about the earnings cliff, not the fiscal cliff, as being more concerned to stock traders. i agree with the overall analysis. that's the news, the earnings cliff we're seeing now. >> bob, see you later. bob pisani. meantime, hurricane sandy is making its way toward the east coast, expected to make landfall in a few days. could ruin halloween for a lot of kids. find out how the area is preparing in the northeast and the effects on energy prices. jack, you're a little boring. boring. boring. 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[ crowd cheering, mouse clicks ] [ male announcer ] get more access with a citi card. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! oh...there you go. wooohooo....hahaahahaha! i'm gonna stand up to her! no you're not. i know. you know ronny folks who save hundreds of dollars switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than a witch in a broom factory. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. hurricane sandy leaving a paths of destruction in the caribbean and threatening the east coast of the united states. the storm expected to make landfall early tuesday. our maria la rosa's live at the weather channel tracking the storm. maria? >> already beginning to leave the bahamas. so that's good news for them. we're feeling the effects already on to the eastern coast of florida with gusty winds and squali weather. here are the stats now. still a hurricane, maximum winds at 80 miles per hour. slow to move a little to the north now at about six miles per hour. and that puts it about 25 miles northeast of the island. notice through tomorrow, we're still going to see the gusty winds on the east coast of florida from miami to daytona. high rip current risk, obviously when you're talking about waves 10 to 15 feet, that's not going to make for a very good beach day. but at that point, it will be on the move. of course, everyone want to know what's going to be happening next. i'm going to show what's not going to be happening. this is a look at all the computer models. we're not seeing any of the mcdonald el models take this away from the northeast. we're confident that between long island sound and the chesapeake bay, this will make landfall into tuesday. here's the official track. notice how widespread it goes inland. we're expecting not just those areas along the coast to feel the impacts, but we're feeling it inland and likely for days, well into next week. >> yeah. a lot of chatter here at the stock exchange involves all the hotels close to us booked for next week. it's going to be crazy. thanks, maria. maria la rosa from the weather channel. sandy threatens five refineries with a total of 1.15 million barrels a day of crude capacity, in delaware, philadelphia, new jersey. how bad will the impact be on the energy market? andy lipow, president of lipow associates. joining us from houston. welcome. >> thank you. >> how dense relatively speaking is the northeast when it comes to capacity? >> the capacity of the refineries is very small, only the 6.5% relative to the rest of the country. and the northeast depends on supplies from europe, as well as canada and the gulf coast which are really going to be unaffected by the storm. >> yeah. you make the point that at least here in the northeast you might have some supply disruptions, but you're also going to have demand disruptions. can you explain? >> exactly. i mean, although we know that most of these refineries are going to shut down and we lose supply, the fact of the matter is that business is going to close for several days up in the northeast, as well as airports will shut down. that's the mitigating effect to the supply disruption. >> obviously in hurricanes, you know, the old saying as you know goes if the wind doesn't get you, the water will. wind, rain, flooding, what is -- where are refineries most vulnerable when it comes to the elements? >> well, in the northeast in particular, i would say it's the wind affecting damage to some of the equipment that's around the refinery. i don't anticipate much flooding depending on where the eye of the storm falls, we've got the philadelphia area refineries, water" k can go into the river. unlike the coast where you is a storm surge preventing water from draining. >> we have made this broader move in crude which i'm curious to get your thoughts on. we've got a little relief today. still, you know, awfully close to 85. where is that trend headed given the fact that we were trading north of here in a band north of here not too long ago? >> well, i see that crude supplies are quite amp ample. you look at north america with increasing production, i'm expecting to go to 85, then back to 82 to 83 just in light of higher and higher inventories and good production out of both saudi arabia and iraq. >> and then there's gas prices. you know, i've heard -- seen more stories in the media lately about how gas prices are going to fall 50 cents in the next 30 days. is that overstating it, or are we going to see immediate relief to the consumer in the next few weeks? >> i think it's quite overstating it. today we're at $3.57. by halloween, i expect $3.50. as a average in, a pharmaceuticals later to get around $3.35 to $3.40. >> missouri's close to $3. some other states will catch up, too. >> in fact, if you look at texas, missouri, and south carolina, you'll already see stations well below $3 a gallon. >> if you were going to have a hurricane, andy, that did not hit the galveston coast, is the northeast the next worst place you could put it? >> well, it is because of the concentration of the refineries in the philadelphia area. of course on the gulf coast we've got 40% of the nation's refining capacity. so a hurricane here takes out a lot of the supply that the rest of the country depends on. >> right. we're so used to watching storms hit where you are. this time it's your turn to watch us go through it again. andy, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> andy lipow in houston. pandora taking a hit for the second day on news that apple is making a foray into internet radio. is it time for investors to just face the music? 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[ male announcer ] one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. welcome back to "squawk on the street." brian shakman taking a look at moody's, touching a 52-week high. great earnings, great eps growth. they raised their guidance, as well, by 7%. and of course it's up 5.5%. the most interesting thing, say what you want about ratings, their ratings revenue up 71%. >> yep. a lot more instruments to rate. that's for sure. thanks, brian. pandora meantime down about 2.5% now. the news that apple is launching a radio streaming service driving the stock down yesterday. the question is, will pandora be able to compete, or will listeners simply tune out for good? rich greenfield's co-head of research and media analysts at btig. good to have you back. >> thanks for having me. >> at first blush, you're dealing with a company in apple that has more money than god. does not look like a fair fight. >> you've got a company in n pandora that doesn't make money today. they are begging the government for corporate welfare in terms of relieving them or giving them relief on their royalty structure which simply isn't going to happen, certainly not with this congress and i doubt in the next one. now you've got behemoths, not just apple, but microsoft launched a music service. you've got the big technology heavyweights can tons s with t in the music business, and people spend a lot of time, over two hours a day, listening to music. there's a huge opportunity to control out of home and in your car media that companies want to own. >> right. is this -- for all -- pandora has a decent subbase already. i listen to it every day in some capacity cd it get taken out? how does it survive in this new environment? >> well, imagine you get off work today at cnbc and want to drive to the garden stated mall. apple's getting in your car, they want to be eyes free siri. you say you wanting to to see the mall, it will note through apple maps, know where you want to go, plot your course. you will say, hey, i'd like to listen to music, pick your type of station. siri will auto tune to that music and will know you're going to the mall, it will know what's in the mall because it knows exactly where you are because they own the device. they'll say, hey, would you like a coupon for starbucks? that will be the ad in the middle of the show. automatically it will go in your pass book. when walk up to the starbucks, the coupon will pop up on your phone. that's what apple's after. the control of the local experience. pandora doesn't control the phone. they don't know that information. this is going to be a serious competit competitor. and i think what might be most compelling for you to switch services is, one, they'll auto download it i assume to your phone, and it's going to have basically significantly more skips, it's going to be global. and it's probably going to have the ability to cache. you'll be able to go to a subway or airplane and still keep listening which pandora can't do. >> the ipad. so if apple is literally spinning aweb around the pan -- a web around the pandoras, groupons, you make the point they're not just devices, they are really into e-commerce and local advertising. they want to know where you, that explains maps. is this all done organically, rich, or not just pandora, but anybody who has the tiny piece of that pie, can they be acquired, be a part of that party after being purchased? >> y >> well, anything is possible in terms of being acquired. i would be surprised if someone tries to buy pandora. doesn't make any money. anyone who wants to launch a music service, you know, the compulsory rights that pandora has are easy to do. what apple's doing is different rights. they're not going after the compulsory rights where you don't actually need label approval. my guess is the people that actually would want to compete with the so-called apple service that we're talking about, they're going to want rights that are far beyond what pandora has. buying pandora actually doesn't do very much. i mean, look, if it falls to a low enough price, we've got a 3.75 target, this is our first short idea, anything is possible. when i think about why google did android, why apple does ios, that control of the ecosystem is one of the key reasons why we're skeptical and have a short sell rating on facebook. that control of the operating system is very important. and i think leads to a lot of different opportunities in a mobile world. businesswise. >> yeah. rich, you're known for concise, provocative points of view. i appreciate you sharing them. see you later. rich greenfield at btig. the yacht business used to be a party, but the party may be over thanks to the financial crisis. we'll find out what the state of the ad industry says about the state of the world's wealthiest individuals. when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. yachts may look glamorous, but the multibillion dollar yachting business may be rounding aground. our reporter robert frank is live in ft. lauderdale where they don't have a hurricane on the way. following the yacht economy and all the details, good morning, robert. good morning, thank you very much. well, the yachting industry is an $85 billion-a-year business. a little like the weather in florida this morning, the industry is going through some very stormy seas. let me give you some numbers as an example. in 2008, there were orders for more than 100 new boat of 130 feet or more, mega yachts. that number fell from 100 to 10 the following year, a drop of more than 90%. now things are coming back a little bit, but basically prices for used boats are open more than 10%, 2 0%. sales way down. china's good, other parts of the world are fine. but industry, sales are still off by more than half of what they used to be. let's take a listen. >> this is bad. it's been bat since 2008 when the crisis hit. >> we saw the two big boats, more than 170 feet, they are understanding the meaning of buying yachts. china needs. they are growing but have not passed in this business. >> now at this boat show, there are more than 1,000 boats for sale just to give you a sense. one for sale is this pretty amazing boat called diamonds are forever. built by john stalupa. he loves to name his boats after james bond movies. this is incredible. it is filled with gold, with silver, with all kinds of diamonds. it's got pictures of bond girls all over the walls. it's got two jet skis down below, in case you need to make a bond-like escape. of course, there is the martini bar upstairs. an amazing boat, yours for only $63 million. i am told by everyone that that is a bargain. hard to believe, but bargains are relative in the yachting business. back to you. >> that is an amazing number. quickly, you've -- you know and have talked to so many wealthy people in this country, where to yachts fall on the spectrum on their wish lists? above or below a corporate jet? >> it's usually the last thing that people buy. i mean, corps jets, people can use those for corporate business to get somewhere faster. there's no excuse for owning a yacht other than you really enjoy. we'll talk later about how much they cost to own later
parts. >> goes a long way. >> i know because my family is from those parts. thanks for watching. >> do you say redneckonized? >> thank you. hi, everybody. good afternoon. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo at the new york stock exchange. the market down today. todd, welcome back. >> happy new year. i'm tyler mathisen. bill griffin will be back with us tomorrow. in the markets now, let's look where the dow stands. it's down 53 points. nasdaq right now in percentage terms with a slightly more modest loss down six points. 6.5 at 3095. about a fifth of a percentage point lower. the s&p 500 at the moment is down by about 5 2/3 points at 1460. that is a little better than a 1/3 of a percent decline. >> is this the beginning of the bigger move lower? brian belski is preventing for a move of about 8% from here for the s&p 500. >> but does the rest of our panel agree? joining us along with brian is peter anderson of congress asset management and our own steve leisman and rick santelli. you think it's going to be another good year of gains. target on the s&p 1575. defend it. >> well, we do. i'll remind everyone we were at 1420 last year. we base all of our analysis on fundamentals. >> you were off by a point. >> i'm sorry. >> a whole point. >> seriously. >> i'm sorry. but we think the fundamental condition of u.s. stocks remains very strong. if you take a look at the balance sheet strength, earning stability. fourth quarter earnings i think was a surprise to the upside. companies have been conservative of all these great things. no that we're done with this fiscal cliff situation, i think we do have a bit of wind behind our sails. however, we don't think that 2013 will be as strong as 2012 given the fact that so many people were underexposed stocks in 2012. we've had this kind of natural rotation back in. i think 2013 will be positive. >> but are we really done is the question. we've got the debt ceiling debt bait coming. peter, what's your take? >> well, i think the debt ceiling, we've been through that before -- once before. this second time i think it's going to be actually maybe too much to say a piece of cake, but we've seen it before and i think that we will sail through that. and earnings, i'm looking at earnings to be probably sideways this past quarter. going into 2013 i think it's going to be one heck of a year. >> you mean a strong year? >> yes. strong. >> and you think stocks react to that? >> i do. i think they will react very strongly. i think there's a lot of risk, uncertainty out there. but on top of that, i think you will see stock buybacks. and i also still think you will see some dividend increases which are great for investors. >> brian, do you think it's going to be a piece of cake the debt ceiling discussions? >> what? >> that's what he said. >> this has been a market place that since 2007, 2008, that reacts to every little sound bite. we're going to see some volatility during every time of situation or news bit that comes out of washington. this is not going to be an easy year. but what we will say is that stocks in general are exquisitely priced number one. number two, they're providing income for those portfolios that are beginning to lose money in their bond positions the second half of the year. 2012 was still a net positive year for bonds. but the second half of the year was the first six-month period where bond investors were actually losing money. we need to see more of that before we see the massive rotation out of bonds and into stocks. that will really catapult the second bull market. >> you have to believe that at the end of the year, the fact that dividend taxes go to 20% rather than much higher, some expectations, and capital gains taxes also 20%. good number there. but steve, let's talk about the uncertainty ahead. steve leisman, you've got the debt ceiling talks, a lot of people expect a big fight here. what do we need to know and focus on on the impact on stocks? >> the first is the disagreement over whether or not we're going to reach an employment level that will allow the government to stop buying assets. this time last year the fed was predicting an unemployment rate for the fourth quarter of the next year or 2012. that was up almost a percentage point higher than it ended up being. so the fed was too pessimistic about unemployment. if you do get a fast improvement in unemployment, then the fed may end up stopping easing faster than the market believes. the second thing we're finding out is a growing concern on the federal reserve about the exit strategy and the kind of impact it would have on the fed's balance sheet. if higher rates forces to take losses. and the kind of payments it will have to make to banks on interest on reserves. those are two things. on the debt ceiling, i guess i just point out that the market's kind of been twice burned on this on the pessimistic side. whether or not this is the battle royale we've been waiting for here, yob. but two out of the last three times you were better off sitting there and holding unless you had exquisite timing and were able to get in at the bottom. >> let's turn to you rick santelli. i want to get your reaction to what peter says. he says on the debt ceiling we've been here before. we know how this ultimately plays out. and in his words, i don't mean to overstate your case, peter. you did it brilliantly before. it's going to be a piece of cake. how do you see it and traders you're talking to see it? >> they think the rotation out of fixed income into equities is definitely going to continue. but it's going to be like turning a barge in a very small waterway and it's going to take a lot of time. now, just for the first week we see yields are up on the tens. stocks are up about 2%. but don't look for that pace obviously to continue. and in terms of the debt ceiling, i actually in part agree with your guess. i don't think that's going to be the definitive issue. i think the tester is going to be the sequester. in my opinion. because that's where the spending cuts are, and i agree with today's op-ed. that's the only spending cuts in sight. >> do you think today's decline, brian, is partly just sort of let's take a breather? one trader i was talking to earlier said one of the issues today is there's just a lack of buyers. not heavy selling going on. just a lack of buyers. >> everyone's coming back to work, too, for the first full-time. first full monday of the year. that may be part of it. volume's low. maybe decisions are taken off the table in terms of short-term. but longer term people are much more positively disposed now than they were two months ago. funny thing, rising price stocks make people feel better. >> peter give me your best pick for 2013. >> how about madison square garden? just had some great news on the hockey break there. and in terms of valuations, the deeply valued and undervalued stock, look at something like that. anything that has risk of if they could be bought out or leveraged buyout. anything like that this year, i think investors should start looking at. because cash is at an all-time high as we know. and people will not want to take high risk situations. so we'll look at where they will be bought back. >> thank you very much. great conversation. we appreciate your time tonight. meanwhile, bank stocks dragging down the averages. a lot of news out of that sector today. let's get to kayla tausche. >> hi. news this week of banks settling lawsuits started out as a positive for investors. if you've got litigation issues quantified and off the books. but the stocks turned south on how much they would shave from the books. $8.5 billion suit. and the federal reserve was detailed midday. it will cost $3.3 billion in cash and $5.5 billion in mortgages. sun trust, u.s. bancorp, and ci citi. another $10 billion in fannie mae. the stock popped premarket. the bank must pony up $2 million in cash. the bank said it will be modestly profitable for q4 next week. but it could swallow the quarter. considering that wouldn't be the first first time it would wipe away nearly all of its earnings. >> thank you so much. kayla tausche with the latest there. we'll be watching those banks. we are about 50 minutes before the closing bell sounds. the dow down about 55 points right now. >> as we close down on the next crisis, mitch mcconnell has a simple question. we will tell you what it is and how those on the other side of the aisle are answering it. and then states are scrambling for revenue and you could see the miles you drive get taxed. this has some people up in arms. we'll look under the hood on that debate. that's coming up on the program. then it is the biggest night in college football. the bcs championship and the champion will be crowned. wait until you hear the unbelievable amount of money this sport and tonight's game bring in. then decide if you think the athlete who is are playing should be compensated. ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you turn an entrepreneur's dream... ♪ into a scooter that talks to the cloud? 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[ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. welcome back. economists are debating now if worries about the fiscal cliff impacted hiring as businesses added just 155,000 jobs in the month of december. but the jobs market is facing another danger. that of course the debt ceiling. >> and if we see another standoff on this one, a rank rous one, how bad will it hurt? we have tom stemburg now a partner at highland consumer fund. and she was a member of president obama's council of jobs and competitiveness. so where does the debt ceiling rate with the fiscal cliff game we saw? miss tyson, let me begin with you. if i understand your view correctly, you feel we have a situation in the economy where too much austerity would do the economy a great deal of damage right now. but an awful lot of people on the other side of the aisle say if not now, if we don't address spending now, when are we going to do it and that we have been saying fundamentally the same thing will take care of spending later, later, later and it never gets taken care of? >> well, i think that it is correct that we don't need fiscal austerity now, but we do need to -- a long-term plan to bring spending growth down in the future. you know, if we had a political system that worked efficiently, we could have both. we could have a plan, a long-term plan, maybe with some triggers. the federal reserve has triggered its interest rate policy based on what the economy is doing. so why not put in some spending cuts now, trigger them in gradually as the economy recovers? we could do that. >> tom, let me get your take on this. >> i think we're in a crisis here. our house is burning. as dick just pointed out on your air. . we've got an entity taking in $2.2 trillion a year and spending $8.8 trillion a year. so i think we got to begin to attack this today. and the real big issues here are entitlements. and i think we've got to look at entitlements. it seems to me that senator alexander has other solutions such as means testing for medicaid and medicare. such as raising the retirement age, not today but a few years down the road by a couple years. to account for a longer lifetime and longer working career. these things aren't that hard. i can't for the life of me understand why the obama administration doesn't embrace the ideas and move forward. >> has this impacted the business climate, tom? what are you hearing from ceos and managers of businesses you're talking to. >> do you think we're done with the uncertainty? >> no. i think we still see -- well, when you hear people like speaker pelosi talking about increasing taxes even further, when we already raised taxes by i think a little over a trillion dollars, the notion of more tax increases scares people. by the way, when we talk about those we're forgetting about the medicare tax that came from obama care. we forget about the investment tax of 3.8% if you're in the real estate business. or the investment business. we forget about the fact we've taken now the fica reductions down. you can't suck that much out of the economy and expect the economy to thrive. >> well, that sort of rebounds back on miss tyson's point. let me play a sound bite from yesterday on the abc program this week from senator mcconnell. >> why aren't we trying to settle the problem? why aren't we trying to do something about reducing spending? we know we need to do it. when are we going to do it? we don't need to use the deadline. >> miss tyson, just said taxes took money out of the economy that we can't afford. >> they took out of the economy. >> if you take more money out from spending cuts your argument is you do more damage to the economy. >> no, no. look. tax increases are spending cuts with different multipliers. take things out of the economy now. the deal we passed is retraction nar to the government by 0.6 percentage points. so if a gdp rate that isn't that high. there's already a fiscal cap in place on federal spending. there's a fiscal contraction in place right now. so the truth is from fiscal policy point of view on the current state of the economy with gdp gap of 6%, we are taking spending power out of the economy. yes the tax deal did that. the issue about the long run is we do not want the government to be competing with the private sector for barrowing when capital markets are tight. right now the federal government can borrow at less than 2%. right now we have, for example, a $2.3 trillion deficit in infrastructure. why aren't we investing in infrastructure right now? why aren't we borrowing to build our future? that is separate from whether we decide now on a change in the retirement age for one of our n entitlement programs. >> let's answer that question. what do you think? i mean, do you think part of this is the indecision in washington that just what tom said that, you know, folks are out there saying there's too much uncertainty. why do you think folks are not hiring yet? what's the answer? >> i think it's a bit of uncertainty and still the fact that if you look at median incomes in the united states, if you look at per capita household incomes in the united states, if you look at household wealth in the united states, we are nowhere back to where we were in 2007. therefore the economy cannot generate the kind of consumption it generated in 2007. >> we're forgetting one other factor which is regulation. >> yep. >> bank regulators is one example. the small businesses i work with at the highland consumer fund have trouble getting capital. one of the reasons is despite the rhetoric from washington, the bank regulators have put in so much spending restrictions so that my small businesses who want to add jobs can't do so because they can't get the capital. >> i completely agree on that. >> we're very focused on regulations as well. >> i completely agree on the small business capital market conditions. this has been a big, big problem. it's one of the reasons the recession was so deep and one of the reasons the recovery is so slow. i agree with that. but i really want to point out, why is it so difficult to get a spending deal? i think it's important to recognize that the american people, the majority of american people do not agree with a change in the retirement age. the majority of american people do not agree with significant cuts to medicare and medicaid. >> nobody ever wants to go on a diet. >> this is not president obama saying that he -- this is basically -- >> we all want free stuff. we all want lots of stuff. the question is can we afford it? there's no doubt about it. you're right. >> maria, the tax deal that we just passed, the economists included in that taking -- adding back into medicare the 700 millions of provider cuts that were already in there. at the same time they're essentially raising taxes, they're walking away from a set of spending cuts that were already in there. >> you know, the biggest bunch of baloney about spending cuts i've heard is the notion of these medicare cuts. every year they say they pay the doctors less. the doctors scream and congress and administration rescinds it. these are phony cuts. we've got to deal with real cuts. and the job creators alliance is trying to get people to focus on real cuts. >> that's a great point, tom. much of the cuts we're talking about are cuts of projected spending. not actual cuts in spending. we got to run. >> the point you want the cuts in projected spending because it's spending relative to growth and gdp. i think the cuts in projected spending is correct to do. >> yeah. the only issue is it just doesn't impact the $16 trillion we're faced with. thank you so much. we appreciate your time. we'll see you soon. biotech stocks among the big movers today. over to you, seema. >> hi, there. a lot of moves as the jpmorgan conference kicks off. gilead sciences moving up. says today's update keeps gilead in the race which he says is an $18 billion market opportunity. ls elsewhere we're seeing a bright spot in the biotech space for celgene. also activity to keep note of, athenahealth in the mobile health care space. epocrates added a 2% premium. it's a small cap, but that stock is moving sharply higher today. look at illumina. that's not what's moving the stock. here's what is. telling the newspaper over the weekend that illumina is definitely off the table based on those comments. there is speculation that roche may not further pursue an illumina deal. that's what's weighing on shares of illumina today. >> thank you so much. coming up, we'll talk with the head of one of the biggest today. the ceo of snofi chris viehbacher. >> there's a lot of flu going around. it's a bad one. minutes before the bell, look where the dow sits now. dow at 13,387 and change. >> google executive chairman eric schmidt arrived today in north korea. not a popular move with the white house. but google stock is popular with investors. that story and a look at google stock coming up. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] don't just reject convention. drown it out. introducing the all-new 2013 lexus ls f sport. an entirely new pursuit. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. goog -- google opens up anyone with a internet connection. now google's executive chairman eric schmidt is in north korea. our chief international correspondent michelle caruso-cabrera has the latest. >> it's not exactly clear why eric schmidt is in north korea. we do know this. as google's executive chairman, he is the most high profile business executive to travel there. this is video from early this morning u.s. time almost nighttime there in north korea. what's interesting is they land in north korea. there you see him with governor bill richardson who organized the trip. says he invited eric schmidt. google says this is a personal and private trip, has nothing to do with them. bill richardson has been to north korea half a dozen times in the past 20 years. he invited schmidt. it has nothing to do with a diplomatic mission from the united states. there were reporters in north korea on the ground, they must have been condoned by the dictatorship there which is secretive and nuclear ambitious, here's how they responded to the reporters who were there. >> no interviews. no interviews. >> this is a private humanitarian visit. we're here as individual american citizens looking at the humanitarian situation. we're going to ask about the american detainee who's here. we're interested in the economic and political situation. we are concerned about the missile launches and we're concerned about the importance of dialogue. >> the state department did not want them to take this trip. here's the statement from last week. they were not going to be accompanied by any u.s. officials. frankly we do not think the timing of this is particularly helpful but they are private citizens and are making their own decision. that is victoria nuland. back to you. >> thank you. whether you think the trip to north korea is a good idea or not a good idea, is it a good idea to buy google stock here? let's get to the technical side of the story. carter worth is with oppenheimer. john stevenson is with first asset management. carter, let me kick off with you. what's the chart look like on google? >> it looks great. let's look at two charts. the first is a five year chart. the 660 level and how formed that is. then the breakout last year. stock hit 775. and if you break out and fall back to the level from which you broke out, you have rebound potential. again, that's exactly what google has done. then the second chart which is equally important puts in context of the breakout of last year. that breakout to 775 allowed google to make an all time high. able to eclipse its 2007 peak. and how many stocks in technology have done that? not many. how many stocks in general are now making their '07 highs. this is impressive and it looks like more to come. >> what do you say, john? how's the fundamentals looking? >> i don't see that at all. one part of the chart we haven't talked about is how in the third quarter of last year the stock tumbled $100 a year when it missed expectations. it will again. why? operating margins are down from 31% to 19%. motorola still losing money. they're a core desktop business. all of this is negative for google. and i would sell right now and run away before the quarter. >> sell and run away, carter? you think if a chart looks good it's going to continue to look good. >> what's important here is large cap tech is dreadful. from microsoft, apple, ibm. this is outperforming the sector, if you will, and market having made an all time high when the s&p has not been able to do that. then most recently the market's been over a bit of pressure. and it is holding up well. we think this is quite timely and would stay the course. >> we'll leave it there. that is what makes the market shine. thank you very much. ty, over to you. >> right now the dow is down about 41 points. the s&p is almost level up about four right now. just a few minutes before the closing bell. you think you just have to worry about the federal government when it comes to higher taxes? no, no, no. now some states are paving the way towards something that could become a mileage tax. yes, a mileage tax on our driving. that is next. get ready to get angry. and it's safe to say people who can afford this car won't be too concerned about having to pay a few extra bucks in taxes. stick around for details on a car that costs more than a million and a half dollars and you can't drive in the u.s. yet. a bunch of americans have already preordered it. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 when i'm trading, i'm so into it, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 hours can go by before i realize tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 that i haven't even looked away from my screen. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 that kind of focus... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 that's what i have when i trade. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and the streetsmart edge trading platform from charles schwab... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...helps me keep an eye on what's really important to me. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 it's packed with tools that help me work my strategies, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 spot patterns and find opportunities more easily. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 then, when i'm ready... act decisively. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i can even access it from the cloud and trade on any computer. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with the exact same tools, the exact same way. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and the reality is, with schwab mobile, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i can focus on trading anyplace, anytime... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...until i choose to focus on something else. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 all this with no trade minimums. and only $8.95 a trade. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 open an account with a $50,000 deposit, and get 6 months commission-free trades. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 call 1-800-578-4439 tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and a trading specialist tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 will help you get started today. here's one of those unintended consequences. more fuel efficient cars are leading to a shortfall in gasoline taxes. now some states are getting creative to make up for that lost revenue. >> phil lebeau joins us in chicago with the details. phil? >> we're talking about essentially a mileage tax. and what we're seeing, the first state to do this essentially is is the state of washington. starting next month it will be taxing those who own an electric vehicle $100 per year. why electric vehicles? you can't get a gas tax from those who are charging their car at home. as a result that tax revenue is going into the state transportation fund. why is washington doing this and other states looking at something similar? gas tax revenues are under pressure. first the recession means people are driving less. particularly painful for the federal government. it gets 18 cents in tax from every gallon of gas bumped in the country. on top of that, you have fewer high efficiency models. every year we have seen the fuel efficiency increase. it's now at its all-time high for new vehicles. 23.9 miles per gallon in december. 23.8 for all of 2012. as a result a lot of states particularly washington, oregon, minnesota, others. they're studying vehicle use taxes. minnesota and oregon by the way conducting pilot studies looking at taxes per mile driven. bottom line is this, maria and tyler, the states have to make up for the lack of tax revenue from gasoline. they're going to look at other ways to tax you for how far you were driving. this is where you're going to get these vmt, vehicle miles traveled, taxes coming in. >> amazing. stay right there. we want to bring in a couple more voices on this issue. joining us now is the president of the electric drive transportation association. he's concerned this will in fact discourage people from buying fuel efficient cars. dan weiss is senior fellow at the center for american progress. he's generally conservative minded but looks at this sort of tax as a user fee to be paid by users rather than the rest of us. good to see you, guys. what kind of dent does this make, you think, in the effort to get people to drive fuel efficient cars? >> it's certainly not going to help. and i think we have already agreed as a national imperative it's important to use less and less petroleum. we don't want to use policies that are essentially in conflict with what has already been agreed as a policy objective. we think that's what's going to happen. >> you know, dan, you basically agree that energy efficiency is a noble goal, but you also think it's okay to tax mileage on electric cars. generally you tax things you want to do less of. so you wouldn't tax electric cars. and you would more heavily tax the things that you want to consume less. and that is carbon. >> here's the thing. first we're strong supporters of investments that will help increase the number of electric cars on the road. that's a good thing. but at the same time our infrastructure is ailing. it's estimated that half of our roads need to be resurfaced or repaired. close to 1/3 of the interstate highway system is in sub standard condition that has economic costs. right now the gasoline tax doesn't pay for all the repairs that are needed. so we've got to raise revenue. and it's better to do it from the users of the roads including electric vehicles rather than from the general public. if you live in new york city or chicago and only ride the subway all the time, why should your tax dollars go to pay for roads that you don't use? that's why this -- go ahead. >> no, no. you go ahead. finish your thought. >> i was going to say that's why putting a fee on electric cars is not a great idea, but it's a user fee for people using the roads. and that's better than taking the money from generalrevenue. there's other options as well we can look at like cutting tax breaks for big oil companies. perhaps doing oil import fee. but we need to have some form of revenue to help repair our crumbling roads and bridges. >> you know, that's the issue. everybody's looking for revenue any way they can find it. are there better ways to raise revenues? you just mentioned the oil companies. phil lebeau, what are you hearing? what are the better ways to face revenue? >> i think the states look at this and say if we already do it on toll roads and bridges and select states around the country, why not do this across the board? and that's why they're looking at how do you implement this. the ion, maria, is it's coming. as much as people don't like it, it's coming. how do you monitor how many miles you're driving every year or tyler is driving. and if you do this with some type of an ez pass then people say i don't want the state knowing how far i drove. >> that's exactly right. i mean, they do know if i use ez pass. they know where i am at any given time or if i went through the tolls any hour. >> they know where you are at all times. >> they know where i am. what are the privacy concerns here? and are they potentially grievous or overblown? >> i think phil's right. over time what we're going to have to look at is a comprehensive solution. it needs to be technology neutral. and it needs to be constructed in a way it's not at odds with essentially our efficiency goals. which also become our national security and energy security goals over time and are consistent with our environmental policies for clean air. this is where we have an opportunity here to utilize a lot of leverage. electric vehicles which are called out at the top of the program are, i think, i think it was dan that said including electric vehicles. we're okay with that but we don't want to disadvantage a technology essentially we've worked hard to get policies in place to encourage. it's just emerging into the market place. >> brian makes a good point about making technology neutral. we need to make sure to include all sources. but electric causes road wear and tear just like a same sized gas powered car. we need more electric cars to reduce our oil use and pollution, but we need to make sure people who use our roads pay for those roads. one other thing we need to look at it is the federal gasoline tax is worth about 50% less than it was when it was last raised 20 years ago. >> all good points. >> let's just be clear, dan. you're not going to have enough electric cars to close this gap any time soon. >> that's a great point. >> absolutely. that's true too. >> and we need the stations to accommodate. good to talk with you all. >> thank you for having us. about 20 minutes before the closing bell sounds on wall street. dow down about 40 points. and the nasdaq off of the lows. so far this year bond yields moving higher. so is the bond rally officially over? they blowed the whistle on it. >> going to get his ideas. then earning season kicking into gear tomorrow. how it will impact your money. plus later my observation on the coming earning season. we'll have revealing information on that. tomorrow don't miss an interview with the ceo of alcoa. that's right here tomorrow. 4:00 p.m. eastern on "closing bell." on gasoline. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. 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[ male announcer ] save on ground shipping at fedex office. if you want to make money in bonds this year, our next guest says the most bullish bet may come down to one single word. housing. >> pimco's mark keisel joins us now. he was named morning star's bond fund manager of 2012 just last week. mark, good to see you. and congratulations. bob pisani only joining us. mark, let's talk about that. first, congrats on this terrific naming from morning star. why housing? what's the bond play? >> i think the bond play is that there are several companies in the housing sector that can benefit from really strong cash flow growth. housing is in the beginning stages of a multi-year expansion. we're likely to see growth of 20% to 30% growth for companies. that will lead to credit upgrades for companies. there are many companies in housing that will benefit. you want to own them on the bond side. >> mark, you had a good year. good to see you again. saw you last week out at morning star. had a great year last year. up 15% in your fund. how much more difficult is it going to be to make money in fixed income this year and beyond housing how are you going to try and do it? >> good question, tyler. nice to talk to you again. i think it's going to be a lot more difficult. we're very much underweight the long yield curve. we're focused on potential for higher rates. we like energy and pipelines. what's happening is you get this huge production in the united states. and in the shale and in the permian basin. we're focused on the firms like markwest energy that are processing all of this crude oil and gas. those are the companies specifically we think will see very high growth. and similar to the housing companies, be very good for bond investors. >> how does that equate in equities, in the equities world? great returns to 2012. has the performance so far this year and what can you say in terms of equities versus the bond world? >> let's talk about how housing is. i concur that housing is getting better. we talked about it throughout the year. i've got two problems. number one the stock prices are reflecting that. most of the big home builders are near new highs. even the support guys. they're at multi-year highs as well. the second concern i have is are mortgage rates getting higher? it hasn't happened yet. we're around 3.5% on a 30-year. but watch the gyrations in the bonds lately, that's got people nervous. mark, isn't it true while home prices, stocks of home building companies is up, isn't corporate bonds as well? prices higher here. >> i think you bring up a good point on the equities side. the equities have definitely shot up in 2012. 100% for a lot of those names. but this is a multi-year earnings growth background. so what we're looking at is basically companies that are going to deliver a strong growth. i think we still have a fair amount on the upside. >> a tremendous amount of money has been flowing into munis and more is going to as a result of taxes going higher. do you think they are overvalued? or do you think they are dangerous at these prices? >> well, i think you want to be more on the short end of the yield curve. when you expand out to 30-year bonds, you are taking a lot of interest rate risk. really the best part of the curve is the five to ten year on the curve. individuals, taxes are going up. and i think they could go up further over the next five to ten years. >> quick comment, maria. the hottest space in bond etfs last year is where mark was. corporate bond etfs. the biggest bond etfs in the united states is the i-shares corporate bond fund. $20 billion in assets. i know you're bigger, mark. but bottom line is that's the hot space. you're in it, my friend. >> gentlemen, thank you very much. we'll keep watching. mark keisel just broke down the muni market finish us. now let's get the super bull on the group. blackrock's peter hayes is with us unveiling his muni predictions. meanwhile let's get to eamon javers who has news about ticketmaster. >> it seems like a significant error here on the part of ticketmaster last night is going to result in a snafu for those trying to buy tickets to the inaugural ball and parade this month. apparently according to folks i spoke to at the presidential committee, ticketmaster accidentally sent out an e-mail last night. it included a live link. as a result tickets that were supposed to go on sale today actually were available for purchase last night to the inaugural ball and to the parade. those tickets have sold out and it's not entirely clear that there are going to be any more tickets available or made available to the general public as a result of this mistake. they say they're going to honor those tickets that were sold. they were legitimately purchased last night. >> all right. eamon javers, thank you very much. we've got about nine minutes to go before the closing bell. and the dow is a bit below water there. down about 45 points right now. down 1/3 of a percent as we get ready to close. navigating the e next couple of months from the looming debt ceiling and problems in the middle east, the global watcher is with me to tell you what he thinks is the biggest risk to your money in 2012. stay with us later on. but first notre dame and alabama set to kick it off at the national championship game tonight. both schools will rake in the cash. but the players won't see a dime of it. that could soon change, however. details when we come back. policewoman ake 70,0 trades a . ♪ reach one customer at a time? 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in heiglight of the fact that everything you just said donald trump said wasn't going to happen. it is the most under-reported story related to the campaign but not directly in the campaign. each day we see something new that was kind of unimaginable weeks ago. >> he says the u.s. military is a disaster, that operation is a disaster, he half believes that mosul is part of syria. >> thank you, rachel. today, the wife of the biggest cyber bully in the world said that if you make her first lady of the united states, she will work hard to stop cyber bullying. annemarie cox will join us with her reaction to melania trump's speech today. but first, we have a new electoral college projection. and that projection indicates that the next president of the united states will not have a first lady. >> this isn't a joke.
this isn't survivor. this isn't the bachelorette. this counts. >> say whoa. >> if donald trump were to win this election, we would have a commander in chief who is completely out of his depth. >> ah, this and that, oh, give me a break. >> donald trump is temperamentally unfit. >> best thing i have is my temperament. >> now he knows we can see and hear him, right? >> i think the gig is up. >> we have to find a better way to talk to each other. to respect each other. >> these people are stupid. they're stupid people. >> come on, man! >> i promise you, i will never enter a bicycle race. >> stay on point, donald, stay on point. >> we need to teach our youth american values. kindness. honesty, respect. >> stupid people, remember that. >> sometimes the tentation is to tune it out, and you want to
just focus on the cubs winning the world series. [cheers and applause] >> and who knows, maybe we'll see even more history made in a few days. >> this is the last word on campaign 2016. >> with just four campaign days left now before the presidential election, american voters have probably already decided who the next president of the united states will be. most of the models repeatedly used to predict the winner are predicting a win for hillary clinton. on this program, we presented the moody's analytics model this week that uses economic factors as well as political factors to predict a winner. that shows hillary clinton winning 332 electoral votes to donald trump's 206 electoral votes. larry sabato, the director of the university of virginia center for politics is now ready with his numbers. joining us now, larry sabato.
this is not your final projection, because, there's a couple is states you're still thinking about, but give us your count as of tonight. >> yes, lawrence, we'll update on monday, but right now we think that clinton has 293 electoral votes. she will, we believe, win nevada, despite some of the late polling that has her behind there. we think she's ahead in north carolina. and as long as democrats can manage to get out more the african-american vote, and they're working hard on that, she will win north carolina. our big toss-up, in fact the only toss-up state is florida. you could argue new hampshire is a toss-up state. there are only four electoral votes there and 29 in florida. florida has flummoxed us so far. but 293 is a respectable total. if she wins florida, she'll go
clinton among latinos, latino decisions have excellent new data on this showing that clinton is getting a larger percentage of latinos than brau barack obama did. he got 21%. she's getting 79%, donald trump is in the teens. gee, i wonder why. that is a big, big gain for hillary clinton. the electorate's never static, and different pieces move in different directions every four years, but over all, i think people who are saying hillary clinton is collapsing and the blue wall is falling, you know, it's chicken little all over again. >> and quickly, larry on the senate, if hillary clinton, if your projection's right, hillary clinton's going to be the next president. is she going to be able to get a supreme court nominee through the next united states senate? >> well, she needs, she needs 50 democratic senators plus tim
donald trump's temperament. >> i'm also honored to have the greatest temperament that anybody has, because we know how to win. she spends $1 billion. she spends so much money, i see these ads. people that know me, say how can they say that? you know, we have a temperament, we have a certain temperament. it's a temperament of knowing how to win. >> donald stood on a stage and said, and i quote, i'm honored to have the greatest temperament that anyone's ever had. now he, he knows we can see and hear him, right? this is someone who at another rally yesterday actually said out loud to himself, stay on point, donald. stay on point. his campaign probably put that in the teleprompter. stay on point, donald, stay on point. >> and joining the discussion
now, elysse jordan. former adviser to rand paul's presidential campaign. and also with us, steve mcmahon, a democratic strategist and the ceo and co-founder of purple strategies. elysse, it still seems for the clinton campaign, the best material for hillary clinton every day is whatever donald trump just said. >> that's why this week has been damaging to her. so much attention has been focussed on the fbi and the e-mail server. if she can get back to pointing out to what ridiculous things donald trump is saying, his message the entire campaign, she's in much firmer, better territory. >> steve mcmahon, you've been, i was going to say you've been in campaigns like this. i take it back. no one's ever been in a campaign like this. but you've certainly been there where there's four campaign days left. obviously hillary clinton likes keeping the focus on what donald
funny to basically not pay somebody who's done work for him and say go ahead and sue me, because i've got more money than you and you can't do anything about it. >> larry sabato, is that approach based on voter analysis, that that is what is working with voters? talking about donald trump's temperament and character? >> oh, absolutely. this has come through for months, even before the conventions. and it's just as true today as it was then. the two big factors, they don't think he has the temperament to sit in the oval office and make critical decisions, and they don't think he's qualified in terms of experience and background, to deal with complex public policy issues. the more those two things can be stressed, the better for democrats, and president obama had a marvelous term there. uniquely unqualified. and, again, i think most people would agree with that, just based on the facts.
>> all right, let's look at the latest clinton campaign ad that goes straight at this. ♪ >> i'd look her right in that fat, ugly face of hers. >> he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people who weren't captur captured, okay? you got to look at this guy, oh, i don't remember. i would bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. i love war in a certain way. >> elysse, i think about people like you and steve wishing you could be in the room working on ads against donald trump, because they just serve up the, donald trump serves up that material. >> it is a gift that keeps giving when it comes to ads. but back to this temperament issue that we're talking about and how clinton and president obama are trying to stress this on the campaign trail this week,
out of all the focus groups that i've sat in during this campaign season, temperament was the absolute, number one issue that undecided voters mentioned when it came to pulling the trigger for donald trump. they're simply worried not only what he would do domestically been internationally, it's okay if he's a wrecking ball domestically, but internationally, they are really concerned. so this is definitely her closing argument. >> so steve mcmahon, never mind the supreme court in the last four days of the campaign, would you suggest they ignore issues, just go straight at donald trump the character? >> absolutely. she's got a 40 or 45-point edge on this trait which voters think is very important to a president, and i've sat in focus groups too and saw the same thing. voters are very worried about donald trump. they sort of like that he wants to change washington, they would like a change and broken glass
there, but they don't want that in the middle east or places where it's dangerous and scary. they want a balanced, experienced leader who's not going to get us into a war. >> steve mcmahon, elysse jordan, larry sabato, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, melania trump's speech today was accompanied by the most inappropriate music ever used by the trump campaign or any campaign in the history of campaigns. in the history of music. annemarie cox will give us her take on that speech. and former speechwriter for president george w. bush david from will join us to explain why he voted today for hillary clinton for president. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise,
today, the microphone, i should say, but it was not for that press conference that donald trump promised since weeks ago in which melania trump would produce all her immigration records and prove to us her legality. instead, it was a speech accompanied by the most inappropriate music in the history of the campaign. annemarie cox will join us next and we'll bring you some of that speech. well this here's a load-bearing wall. we'll go ahead and rip that out. that'll cause a lot of problems. hmm. totally unnecessary and it triples the budget. we'll be totally behind schedule, right? (laughschedules. schedules. great, okay. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant?
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♪ ♪ aquarius ♪ aquarius ♪ sympathy and trust abounding >> okay, that was weird. that is the most inappropriate piece of introductory music ever used at a campaign event. the last line of the lyric you just heard, "sympathy and trust abounding ". and then, for some inexplicable reason, the lyrics stop, the music continues, but the lyrics aren't there. they just stop. and the very next line, the lyrics that just don't happen, the next line is "no more falsehoods or derisions."
now it just can't be possible that the trump campaign, the campaign of falsehoods and derisions, was self-aware enough to realize that they just couldn't play that lyric today. it couldn't be that, because if the trump campaign was so self-aware, then they would never have chosen a hit song from the 1968 broadway musical "hair." it was the first nude musical. for the most part, they were dressed in the hippy costuming of the day. it was a story of dropping out, and dropping acid and free love and celebration of the hippy lifestyle. aimed at donald trump's age, graduated a month after "hair " opened on fraud way, but it definitely wa lly wasn't donalds kind of show. it was about, as the lyrics said, harmony and understanding,
sympathy and trust abounding. no more falsehoods or derisions. golden living dreams of visions mystic crystal revelation and the mind's true liberation. the music and the cultural world of people graduating from college in 1968 in donald trump's year, that year was deaf identified between the hippies singing about love and understanding and the mind's true revelation and elvis, unrepentant, 1950s rock and roll. so melania trump made her entrance to a song that stands against everything the trump campaign stands for. no more falsehoods or derisions. and oddly, melania trump's speech was about falsehoods and derisions. making her the first trump ever
to take a stand against falsehoods and derisions. >> as we know, now social media is a centerpiece of our lives. it can be a useful tool for connection and communication. it can ease isolation that so many people feel in the modern world. technology has changed our universe. but, like anything that is powerful, it can have a bad side. we have seen this already. as adults, many of us are able to handle mean words, even lies. children and teenagers can be fragile. they are hurt when they are made fun of or made to feel less in looks or intelligence. this makes their life hard and can force them to hide and
retreat. our culture has gotten too mean and too rough. especially to children and teenagers. >> made to feel less in looks and intelligence. so, the wife of the world's biggest, wildest, most out of control cyber bully, wants to assume the position of first lady so she can stop cyber bullying. no. this is not a self-aware campaign. four years ago, melania trump's husband tweeted this. cher, i don't wear a rug, it's mine, and i promise not to talk about your massive plastic surgeries that didn't work. melania trump's husband also tweeted this, ariana huffington is unattractive both yinside an out. i understand why her husband left her for a man. and he made a comment on the
fact that women were serving in the military. 26,000 unreported sexual assaults in the military, on only 238 convictions. what did these geniuses expect? how much money is the extremely unattractive both inside and out, ariana huffington paying her ex-husband for the use of his name. if hillary clinton can't satisfy her husband, what makes her think she can satisfy america. donald trump has tweeted that megyn kelly is a bimbo, attacked bette midler's attractiveness on twitter and said utterly poisonous things about rosie o'donnell, time and time again here, and i was the person donald trump threatened to sue
on twitter, he's attacked this show, saying it's unwatchable and first predicted the cancellation of this show five years ago, it was going to happen at any moment back then. also on twitter, donald trump has called me a poor journalist, stupid, a very dumb guy, the dumbest political commentator on television and the dumbest man on tv. today donald trump tweeted about watching his wife's speech, but he didn't say anything, anything about her condemnation of cyber bullying. joining us now, annemarie cox, senior political news correspondent for mtv news. i was looking at the trump hits on me, i have to confess, all of which made me laugh. and i thought he never goes after guys' looks. he only does the looks thing with women. and then i found this one. lawrence, this is from several years ago. lawrence will soon be off tv, bad ratings, he has a face made
for radio. so he has gone after, at least one guy, on looks. >> yeah, he's mocked krischri c too. he does save his real venom for women. that is true. and, you know, so i was working under a theory for a while that melania was an silon, because she has that weird thing where her eyes go back and forth, and she looks somewhat alien. but an android's circuits would fry, only a truly delusional human being could give a speech like she gave and survive it. a computer couldn't handle it. you've shown a hlot of the iron. but to go a step further beyond
trump himself doing the bullying, what about attacking people of the jewish faith who have covered him and they've sent people into hiding and remember the journalist that wrote a profile of melania and was deluged with anti-semitic remark, and the campaign and melania herself refused to say anything about it. >> it's one of those speeches where it makes you wonder, do these people ever talk to each other. it was all that portion of it was well-written. those were all good ideas, very well-considered stuff. but donald trump is just the most glaring, you know, violator of everything melania trump talked about today. >> right, you know, i always thought it was a little bit a shade that laura bush chose literacy as her cause when bush was president. i thought that was pretty
clever. but this is at another level. if this is self-aware subtweeting, it's like sticking the knife in. i don't, you know, it's hard to critique, you know, the families, right? i think everyone wants to not go to hard on the families of candidates. you know, a lot of us say things like this person didn't sign up for th. but i've been thinking. we don't know what melania signed up for. trump has said there's a prenuptial agreement. i imagine it's pretty long. she literally signed up for this. >> she definitely did literally sign something. i think when the families are trying to elect the most dangerous candidate in the history of the country, we've got a whole set of what's relevant and what isn't. >> and when she's trying to make the argument that somehow the donald that she knows is different than the one we know, we've seen no evidence of that. this is a case where we actually
have evidence of what he's like when he doesn't think the cameras are on, right? and it's pretty consistent, actually. like that's the thing that's sort of amazing, right? there's no hidden depths to hem. there's no other side of donald trump. hi like he's exactly the jerk you think he is. >> and what matters is who a president is going to be publicly. this is who he is publicly. >> and the temperament argument that all the hillary surrogates is making is a powerful one. we'd like to live in a country where we're having our des agreements about policy, but in the end, it really is about temperament when we elect a president, because there's not going to be, we can't predict every policy problem that comes forward. we can't predict everything that will happen in the world. at some point, it will be the president at his or her desk making the decision about
millions of lives of people. we have to have faith that that decision is going to be made, not in anger, not off the handle and not off of personal pique. >> thank you, ana marie. >> thank you. up next, david from has announced that he is voting for hillary clinton for president. the former speechwriter for george w. bush will join us with his reasons. is is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis.
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when republican governor and former candidate john kasich voted in the battle ground state of ohio, he ducked the real choice of hillary clinton versus donald trump for president. governor kasich could not bring himself to vote for donald trump, and he couldn't bring himself to vote for hillary clinton, so he wrote in a vote for john mccain. david from accepted the real choice and announced today that he voted for hillary clinton. he wrote in an oped for the flaentsic, i have no illusions about hillary clinton. she is a patriot and will uphold the sovereignty of the united states. why didn't you write in john mccain? and what do you say to republicans who are thinking about writing in john mccain or something else? >> well, i wrote, the article i wrote for the atlantic
immediately before made the best case i could from a conservative point of view for donald trump, hillary clinton and a protest candidate. i feel like you have to face your choices. the absentee ballot which i septembe sent, stayed in my box about four days. >> when did you send it? >> about a week ago. but i would say, i'm not one who is greatly swayed by endorsements, but vladimir putin's, that cut a lot of weight with me. >> that would be the thing in the end that weighed the heaviest on you, which one does vladimir putin really want? >> the first is, i do think we are seeing an attempt to manipulate an american election by an unfriendly foreign power,
and it's really important that that unfriendly power get the strongest signal that this isn't acceptable. in the second thing, i do think hillary clinton, i mean, clintons, i've got a lot of critiques of the clinton foundation. i do think they bend the law. but hillary clinton accepts the concept of legality, she accepts that courts are asupreme and hls should be followed. and those pay sibasic rules. the system that we have is one that protects my rights under a president i don't approve of and tomorrow will do the same for you. and what people have in common is their commitment to those shared rules. and if you have a challenger to show shar those shearared rules, that's
unacceptable. >> are you having conversations with a number of your republican friends who are having the same problem that you are? >> there are a lot of shy clinton voters. i know marriages where they're both republicans, but women find this an easier step than the men do. i know a lot of republicans making a protest vote, and i don't complain about that. there are people who say my vote an expression and people who say my vote an instrument. i believe it is an instrument, not an expression. >> thank you very much. coming up, trump campaign is worried about getting out to vote, but are they telling the truth about that? that's in tonight's war room wi with mike murphy. [ piercing sound ]
good luck! so, it turns out buzzed driving and drunk driving, they're the same thing and it costs around $10,000. so not worth it. did you get your e-mail from donald trump begging for money? he's sending out e-mails to
finance his get out to vote operation. but donald trump doesn't have a get out to vote operation. what's up with that? that's coming up. but first, here's how it looked today on the campaign trail. >> one way or another come this january, america is going to have a new president. >> if hers is a track record, if hers is experience, i want no experience. look what that experience has got us. >> please remember, that before he was a presidential candidate, he was a leader of the so-called birther movement. >> if he doesn't respect all americans, how can we trust him to serve all americans? >> we're all aware that hillary clinton has a problem with the truth. even among politicians, and that does not make her unique in the swamp that is washington. but hillary stands out. >> she's a very dishonest person, probably the most dishonest person ever to run for the office of president.
>> anybody who is upset about a "saturday night live" skit you don't want in crge of nuclear weapons. >> make america great again is not just some slogan. it is what has been in his heart since the day i met him. >> he has spent this entire campaign offering a dog whistle to his most hateful supporters. >> who you are, what you are, does not change after you occupy the oval office. all it does is magnify who you are. all it does is 1450i7b a spot height on who you are. and runn, anywhere in the planet. wherever there's a phone, you've got a bank, and we could never do that before. the cloud gave us a single platform to reach across our entire organization. it helps us communicate better. we use the microsoft cloud's advanced analytics tools to track down cybercriminals. this cloud helps transform business.
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septembersent an e-mail to supporters this week asking them for money pause, we are currently executing a highly costly early voting push and get out to vote operation to ensure identified trump voters make it to the polls before election day. and this picture was tweeted with this caption, expensive early vote and get out to vote operation. that clearly doesn't exist. what grifters, con man. with four days left for the presidential war rooms, joining us tonight is mike murphy, republican campaign strategist and the host of the pod cast, radio free gop. so i have friends getting these trump e-mails, begging for money. this one you say is more fraud length thfraudu lent than most, because there isn't even a get out to vote
push? >> i'm the sheriff of corrupt town. but this one was particularly egregious. you can argue, there's a fig leaf. it's the joint fund raising committee between the rnc, and they do do generic things, but the e-mail implies, the technique they use is from kellyanne conway, and the idea they need money for this big tv system, which the campaign doesn't have. the rnc has some of it, that's why they'd argue there was a whip of truth. it was misleading. make a trump appeal. that's fine, but let's not pretend there's somet that doesn't exis >> it still cracks me up that the guy is asking for money. why ask for money? why not pump all that trump money that was supposed to come in. >> that's a promise we heard for a long time.
and he's put some money in, but not nearly what he said he would, but that's no surprise with trump. >> he will end up spending less than mike bloomberg did to get elected mayor of new york city. here's the count on field offices. hillary clinton has more field offices in 41 states, chug in every battleground state than donald trump has. here are the states where donald trump has more field offices han hillary clinton. arizona, south dakota, arkansas and mississippi. and arizona's the only one of those that's even in play. >> yeah, there's no trump field operation by real campaign standards. there's generic stuff the rnc is doing to help congressional races. but trump is doing none of the enhanced things that a normal presidential campaign would do. they're doing much of anything that a normal presidential
campaign would do. there's no real serious policy staff. the list goes on and on. trump is like the ice kcapades. it is this concert tour, and we'll see how that pays off on election day. i think with all the noise about how it's too close to call and all that, i'm making bets, i think trump's going down. >> walk us through your bet. on election night, which chips do you expect to see falling on the east coast? do you think in the early closings we'll see florida go for hillary clinton? >> i actually believe hillary is going to carry florida. i could be wrong, but even if trump wins ohio where he's a little stronger than florida and loses florida, let's give him both. and even if he were to win north carolina which has more republican proclivitieproclivit still has to make it up other places i don't think he can. i don't think he's going to poll
the inside strait. and i think hillary clinton's going to win nevada. i know florida pretty well, and i won't have to see a lot of returns to make a pretty informed guesstimate on that state. i think some of that election night drama will be less than people are expecting right now. >> what do you make of the survey that's come out of the early voting in florida that shows a very large crossover of republicans, 28% of republicans in the early vote going to hillary clinton? >> my guess is that number's a little high, but i think the point it makes is true. the parties always do this. more republicans bas on party registration have voted early than democrats, but the margin's less, you know, there's all these comparative stats, but i think trump is going to underperform with republicans.
normally you get 95% when you win. i think trump's republican number will be in the 80 s somewhere. so one of his many problems is, not all these republican votes by registration are actually trump votes. i don't know if it will be 28 to hillary, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's in the high teens, which is twice what it should be in a winning republican model. >> mike murphy, it's great to get your last word on this campaign as we approach tuesday, really appreciate. thanks, mike. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up next, the lawyer who fought the voter i.d. law in north carolina. indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea!♪ here's pepto bismol! ah. ♪nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea!♪ why don't you let me... and me... help you out?
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they say some 6,700 people have been purged. a federal judge reinstated those purged voters' rights, calling the way that they were removed, quote, insane. that was the judge's word. insane. and the judge said it was out of the jim crow era. while democratic turnout for early voting is outpacing republican turnout in north carolina so far, black voter turnout is down 16% from 2012 and some activists say that that is due to that kind of voter suppression. the justice department plans to monitor voting in four counties in north carolina next tuesday. joining us now, penda haire. can you tell me what the judgment found to be insane?
i've heard a lot of judges speaking and writing from the bench. that's a word you don't hear very often. >> let me say first, lawrence, that the judge has not yet issued her final decision, but she did make some comments from the bench. what she found to be insane was that private people mailed pieces of mail to voters in the county, and then they took returned mail to the county and asked the county board of elections to purge those voters from the roles. and the counties actually did so on the behest of these private vigilantes. and more than 400 voters were purged in one county, and over 60 in another county, and in the larger county, it was thousands of voters who were purged. and a lot of this was done right up until election day. . there's another hearing to purge more voters on monday in one of these counties.
>> current polling shows hillary clinton leading donald trump 47-44 in north carolina. let's listen to the way president obama described this situation. >> grace bell lived in belhaven north carolina her entire life. all 100 years of her life. just a few weeks ago republicans challenged her voter registration status. and tried to remove her from the voter rolls. now grace got her voter regge administration reinstated. and you better believe she's going to vote. but this 100-year old woman wasn't alone in being targeted. the list was two-thirds black and democratic. that didn't happen by accident. >> and is that a pretty fair description of what's going on? >> yes. mrs. grace bell harditsson plai
brought. she's voted 23 elections in a role and was at risk of being purged. she got the challenge withdrawn after the north carolina naacp learned about her sorry and made it public. and many, many others in her county are not so lucky and are still subject to having their vote taken away unless the federal judge rules, which we believe will happen fairly quickly. >> if someone has trouble voting in north carolina, what should they do? >> well, they should insist on voting. and if the election officials will not give them a regular ballot, they should ask for a provisional ballot and make sure they are given the provisional ballot. and then after the election, the
caution, you are about to enter the "no spin zone" ." "the factor" begins right now. ♪ ♪ hi, i am bill o'reilly, thanks for watching us tonight. president obama's job performance, that is a subject of this evening's "talking points" memo. about an hour from now, barack obama will deliver his farewell address. after eight years in office, he believes he has been successful. others dissent. "wall street journal" editorializing today, "barack obama's presidency has been a disappointment at home and abroad. in fact, ironically, underscored by mr. obama's relentless insistence that he has been a so, now, "talking points" would like to assess and present the facts about president obama on the job. first of all, some of you
believe that i, your humble correspondent, have been too easy on mr. obama. over the years, i've received letters like these. speaking of matthew richards, native massachusetts come i didt realize that you are the new spokesman for the white house. bill, you threw softballs of the president. you are losing your edge. monro township new jersey, o'reilly, why are you defending president obama? "talking points" replies this way. i have been fair. i haven't bashed a president. i have not attacked him personally. i have not bought into the opinion that he wants to damage the usa. i have not bought into that. what i have done is analyze what he has done in a fact-based way. so, let's take a hard look at that. president obama the first, he is half african-american, he's a historic figure. he has given hope too many minorities and others who see him as a person with little
advantage in his early life. who, through hard work, grows up to become the most powerful man in the world. that is a very positive thing. mr. obama is a role model for success. on the negative side, and expectedly, the president has not improve the economic or social situation of most poor minority americans. there is no more poverty in the usa that there was when he took office. black home ownership down on his administration. and racial division way up. groups like black lives matter have polarized blacks and whites and mr. obama welcomed that radical group to the white hous white house. kind of a mystery to me why barack obama did not concentrate more on solving the poverty problem. key to that is keeping families intact. at one point, i expected mr. and mrs. obama to make that theme one of of the top priorities. it never happened. for poor education in the inner cities. a lax view on narcotics.
and the president's muted support of the police, all contributed to chaos poor neighborhoods. those take a look at the health care situation. mr. obama's vision is good. all americans should have acces. but the execution of obamacare put a steep burden on working-class families, as we all know. health insurance premiums way up, deductibles way up. and doctors accepting the health mandate, becoming fewer and fewer. there is no question obamacare will be repealed under president trump. we all have to hope that the republicans will put forth a better plan. on the economic front, mr. obama did a good job on his first year of stabilizing the economy, which was in free fall, because of the mortgage can't that led to the recession. for example, he made the right decision bailing out some american carmakers who have since repaid the feds. but then, mr. obama shifted into massive income redistribution
country. that's destabilized europe, as the migrants pour in. and lead to even more terrorism on the continents. on the russia front, mr. obama was totally impotent in the face of the tyrant putin. the former kgb officer did exactly what he wanted to do, including invading countries and hacking into the american political system. also, the chinese don't fear barack obama. they have made the south china sea international waters their own. they took it over. chinese have also undermined the american economy, as donald trump has so often pointed out. finally, the new treaty with iran, still debatable. what is not debatable is that iran is the primary sponsor of terrorism in the world! including, the direct destabilization of countries in the mideast and afghanistan. the iranians do not fear barack obama. in international matters, it's clear, president obama believes
global warming is more important than stabilizing and protecting the world. in the face of a global. now, global warming is real. climate change is happening. but mr. obama's vision of hurting certain economic sectors in america in order to lessen fossil fuel intrusion cannot possibly work unless countries like india and china do the same thing. as everyone knows, they are not. so, mr. obama imposed regulations that hurts the american economy, knowing full well that climate change wouldn't improve for a while. does that make any sense? at this point in history, two-thirds of the american people think america is on the wrong track. but they still like barack obama. his approval ratings are about 50%. that is up to the president's credit. he has put forth in emmett java responsibility. but as the nation's leader, mr. obama has not improved the economy to any significant
extent, has not diminished poverty and poor education, has not brought americans together, and has used the power of this great nation in a way that has created mayhem abroad. that is the historical record. nothing to do with ideology or wishful thinking. it has everything to do with performance. and that's the memo. next on the rundown, took our presidential historians will react. later, a nasty racial controversy on capitol hill including a painting offensive to american police officers. "the factor" is coming right back. ♪ take medication, you may sometimes suffer from a dry mouth. that's why there's biotene. and biotene also comes in a handy spray. so you can moisturize your mouth anytime, anywhere. biotene, for people who suffer from dry mouth symptoms.
the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which can be serious and life threatening. it may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. check your blood sugar levels daily while using toujeo®. injection site reactions may occur. don't change your dose or type of insulin without talking to your doctor. tell your doctor if you take other medicines and about all your medical conditions. insulins, including toujeo®, in combination with tzds (thiazolidinediones) may cause serious side effects like heart failure that can lead to death, even if you've never had heart failure before. don't dilute or mix toujeo® with other insulins or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. toujeo® helps me stay on track with my blood sugar. ask your doctor about toujeo®. ♪ >> bill: our lead story, president obama's legacy. he will be speaking in just under an hour, giving his farewell address. joining us from washington, david azzerad, presidential historian. national tennessee, jon meacham,
also a presidential historian, latest book, "test destiny and power." all right, jon, i know you are overcome with my brilliance, but that i make any mistakes in "the memo"? >> it was longer than a sermon on the mound that is perhaps as memorable. i don't think you made mistakes. i think there are some omissions that i would offer up as context, if i were writing the historical legacy of obama. i think on the economic front, you do have to give credit for the rise in the towel, only two other president since 1900 have presided over a rise in a stock market of this scope, calvin coolidge and bill clinton. the tax rates, you talk about how he was interested in redistribution of income. the tax rates are still lower than they were when ronald reagan assigned the bill on his ranch in august of
1981. lowering the rate from 70 under carter to 50, finally got it or 28. >> bill: not the overall -- it's a little sleight-of-hand, meacham, i am surprised that you are down here in nashville, you don't take into social security facts, which is really whacked. working americans, because, the restraints are off, it is much, much higher. and the state situation burden, you have the tax system. and the highest rate of corporate tax of the world, jon. >> right, you have a 3.8% obamacare tax on investing. >> bill: right, so, come on? it's a strange goal situation if you are looking for vibrant growth, you can't get it. >> i agree with that. the economy grew twice as fast under george h.w. bush and he got thrown out of office after one year. >> bill: let's go to mr. azzerad. what do you say? >> i generally agree with you, bill. the problem is with obama, it's his policies. obama, by all accounts, is a good man. i think we could and cried and
the fact that he was our first african-american president. the problem is, when you turn to the policies, he pursued aggressively from obamacare to the iran deal to climate change, they are unpopular and they are unsuccessful. i find it telling that when obama is on the ballot, he wins. when he isn't, when it's his policies, it's his legacy, the american voters overwhelmingly reject him in the democratic party gets shellacked as the president himself. >> bill: what is it about barack obama? has he mesmerized people? as i said, his approval rating is better than 50%. yet, two-thirds of the american people think the countries had to get the wrong direction. it doesn't really stock. >> he is young, he is charismatic, the first black president. people want him to succeed. he carries himself more often than not with a certain dignity. so, i don't think it is anything personal. the left wants us to believe that the american people are racist and don't like it president for who he is. i think the whole country wanted him to succeed. he just pushed an agenda that was much more progressive than
the country was ready for. and displayed a tin air to the e problems facing the country. >> bill: he wasn't nimble. you think he was too stubborn, jon? he didn't want to work with the republicans, i understand a lot of them were trying to sabotage him. in isis, that really bothers me. everyone told him, hey, you got a big problem here, leon panetta told him, his own guys told him. he kept going, i don't really care. i think that that is going to go down in history, either he was in denial on an issue that has killed tens of thousands of people or he just was incompetent, which is at? >> well, when you write history, character is destiny, you know this. part of the presidents character is he has occasionally given off the sense that if only the american people were commensurate with his brilliance, things would be
better. i think that has been a problem with his leadership. i think one thing we have to give him credit for, the other thing about that, he also overcorrected as presidents tend to do, from his predecessor. anything that smacked of george w. bush, obama was going to go the other way. >> bill: particularly dick cheney. but ice is in a glaring error. i don't understand, mr. azzerad, why a president would avoid a confrontation with the group, seeing the massive, massive chaos that it caused. you know, all of these people in the middle east and africa now going into europe. that is going to be a problem for decades to come. it's right on obama's watch. >> his heart was never into foreign policy. i mean, he promised to fundamentally transform the united states of america, to remake the country. he was never interested in foreign policy. he viewed it as a distraction. this accounts were part of it, his heart was never into it
braids >> bill: still, the jihad is a presence main focus to protect us. do you think, jon, do you think that barack obama at this point understands the criticisms that i just laid out? or is he one of these people that blocks all that out and said, i did a great job, i don't want to hear anything else? >> he would answer each one. you've interviewed him a lot. one of his favorite formulations is, this notion that -- then, he undercuts it. >> bill: now, we have eight years of facts. >> he is going to spend a long time, this is a man who can live another 50 years, arguing. let me say one other thing about terrorism. i think he has to get credit, i want to hear what you think about this, there has not been a spectacular attack on my on the homeland and his eight years. >> bill: correct. >> he launched ten times, 100 times, as many drone strikes as george w. bush. he killed 3000 terrorists. and i think, and many ways,
alienated many people on the left with his anti-terror campaigns. azzerad isis is incredibly impo. >> bill: i think that when it was convenient for him to attack, he attacks. when it was no downside, he did it. but when it was complicated, he didn't. i will give mr. azzerad the last word. give president obama -- i want to grade from you, jon meacham, mr. azzerad, give me a grade. >> according to what you want to great him, i would say, what that he promised to do? president obama promised hope and change. he give us angst and insecurity. he promised to unify us and all he did was divide us by race, by religion, by class, by paying identity politics. i think he has earned a f. but in this stage of great inflation, he will probably get a d. >> i think it is a b. i think the prosperous have
gotten more prosperous, that is one of the reasons trump won because the prosperity did not come down to where it needed to come. also, in history, as you know, bill you are not judged only by what your predecessors did, but by how your successors do. so, this will be an open question. >> bill: you gave him a b and mr. azzerad is giving him a d. good discussion. directly ahead, senator sessions telling americans what he should be the next attorney general, even as a some clowns interrupt his testimony on capitol hill. later, the feds once again wasting a colossal amount of tax money on incredibly stupid things. upcoming. say hello to a powerful tool that gives you options to fit your budget. ♪ oh, i'm tied to this chair! ♪ dun-dun-daaaa! i don't know that an insurance-themed comic book is what we're looking for. did i mention he can save people nearly $600? you haven't even heard my catchphrase. i'm all done with this guy. box him up.
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call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ >> bill: impact statement tonight, not too many fireworks the testimony proposed attorney general jeff sessions. the senator answer the questions. everybody pretty much behave.
>> took a people from the northernmost part of our country and the southernmost part of our country -- >> thank you so much for being here. white people don't get arrested ! >> bill: with us now in new york city, melissa francis and mary anne marsh. these far left is his eyelids, marianne, do they care, do you think they care that they care? americas, most of them, think that it is a despicable display. >> the fact is, bill the people that protested jeff sessions are the same people that protested hillary clinton throughout the
entire presidential campaign. many people condemned the behavior today applauded it during the campaign. i think that speaks to the divisions we see in this country. i think the more effective protest was by kaiser con today, the gold star father, who bore silent witness in his opposition to jeff sessions, and his nomination because of his opposition to the full voting rights act, his support of donald trump's muslim band, and his criticism of civil rights groups. >> bill: no one is saying that there are legitimate protesters in a good thing. you mentioned the division of this country, remember, your guy, president obama, promised to bring everyone together. but the country is more divided now than ever, is that correct? >> i think unfortunately, what you say, bill the very beginning of barack obama's presidency, he was met with opposition from the tea party republicans and even donald trump. >> bill: it's not his fault? >> it's a continuation. i think democrats and the left saw that the tea party, the right enter them, were rewarded
for that opposition i fail, they are going to do that. >> bill: you see the country as more divided than we have seen in decades, you see that, correct? >> i agree with that. >> bill: let me get over to melissa. so, my posture is that these crazy far left people help sessions and a trump at all of the stuff that they do works against what they really want. >> i don't know who they are really persuading. i saw one woman leaving, she was chanting about black lives matter but she was reading from a note card. i am like, you are so committed to reading this role, you are reading your lines and he didn't even bother to memorize it. it's not very convincing. these folks yell racist at any one who is right of center. and for sensible people out there watching the program tonight, they look inside their own hearts. you only really know your own heart. they say, i know i'm not racist. if that is your best argument, that this point -- >> bill: anyone who voted for donald trump is a racist. that is how they extreme they are. why do you think i'm a melissa,
that the country is so divided? >> i think it is based on money. i think we have seen the gap between what mike rich and poor widen amazingly between the president's tenure. meaning, income has fallen. when people are falling behind, can put enough food in the table, don't see their kids' lives as being better, they are so preoccupied with these things, they get very frustrated. all these other things, you blame other thing, is it about a race come about that. everybody was doing better and prospering, -- >> bill: bad economic times mean more frustration. >> more friction. >> bill: do you agree with that, mary anne? >> certainly, tough economic times certainly defines that. then, also, as defined by race and gender. you can't escape that. you have to give barack obama credit, as you did in your talking points, for putting the country back on track economically. what didn't happen is people didn't make more money. they lost wages. they lost the opportunity to get ahead. it took all eight years --
>> bill: as you heard, he did a good job in his first year, then, he went wild with the income redistribution and strangled the economy by all of the higher taxes and regulations. that was my analysis. the last row to melissa. >> i disagree with that. >> bill: do you think that trump puck, who is a polarizing figure, just like barack obama is a polarizing figure, do you think that trump will bring peoe together more? >> i think it's a challenge. a lot of that depends on the economy, as well. if he truly brings jobs back, he gets families doing better, i think that brings more people together, because most people are focused on their own family and their own community. >> bill: he can improve the job -- >> he has potential to divide further and do more race baiting. it could go either way but i bet on the economy. >> bill: all right, ladies, thank you. bill, last point. trump said on election night he would bring the country together but he has yet to do it since that night. >> he's not president yet, so, there you go. >> bill: i was just going to
say that. melissa stole that from me. more as "the factor" moves along the ceiling. the state of california setting itself up to go out had to head with president trump once he's in office. former first lady of san francisco kimberly guilfoyle has some thoughts on nuts. then, nasty racial controversy at the capital. we hope you stay tuned for those reports. i am totally blind. i lost my sight in afghanistan. if you're totally blind, you may also be struggling with non-24. calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com.
♪ >> bill: you may have heard about a painting that has been hanging in the capitol complex in d.c. since last june. it depicts a police officer in uniform as a pig aiming a gun at african-american protesters. again, this is my capitol. congressman duncan hunter, i a republican, took the gun down, physically took it down. but congressman lacy clay, a democrat, had the picture product, and wants to charge hunter with theft. something that will not happen. at this point, the offending pictures up, down, up, down, up, down, depending what minute it is. joining us from washington, lisa boothe and juan williams. is it appropriate in the capitol complex, i believe? >> i don't get is inappropriate. you can have a standard to controversial or inflammatory. but the problem is, would you say the same thing about statues to confederates that lead us to have a civil war? clearly, you want art that an flex passion, feeling -- >> bill: you don't think this
is an appropriate? >> not at all. to be when i ask you this question, please answer richard directly. if i commission a painting of black gang members shooting a 9-year-old boy in chicago, is that going to be appropriate to put in the capitol building? >> if you could mention it, probably not. if you asked me, i would say on the same basis that i say that is appropriate, that is appropriate. those are alarming issues. >> bill: a black gang member with a gun shooting a 9-year-old, it's in the capitol. >> this is art that came from a member of congress. >> bill: this guy, lacy clay -- >> he had won in our contest. >> bill: no, no, no. lacy clay picked him, that guy, picked him. it was his contest, clay. come on! it's bogus! he wanted that. he wanted that up! what to say you? >> this is reprehensible and it's irresponsible for representative clay flared i worked on capitol hill, i have walked the hallway where these pictures and pieces of artwork are hung up.
it is chosen by the member's office to represent both the member and also, the congressional district. this guy is choosing, to be represented by a picture that depicts a false narrative from ferguson, which we have seen since ferguson and just this past year alone, 56% increase in police -- ambush style police killing of police officers. >> bill: if that picture were displayed somewhere else, would you object to its? >> absolutely. i think it's disgusting. i think what it is -- >> bill: wait, wait, wait. >> sure. >> bill: is of the artist have the freedom under our constitution to display art tha? >> yes, bill. the problem is of the fact that the representative chose this out of many options to represent his office. >> bill: he wanted to insult the police, he wanted to get attention, all that. i'm worried when you say it should be banned. i don't think it should be banned. no, no, no. i want to get back to you on the bogus argument that clay put
forth and you parroted about confederate people like robert e lee being displayed in the capitol building. that is history. all right? that is history. we don't have to like all of our historical figures. but robert e lee is a general. he was a pivotal figure in the civil war. so, you put up his statue and you say, this is what robert e lee did. it's not endorsing robert e lee, is not showing him with a gun shooting a 2-year-old, it's not doing any of that. that argument is bogus. >> i disagree with you. >> bill: so come historical figures -- >> i think you are supporting my argument, you are saying, something of historical significance -- by the way, lisa, you said, false narrative. there is no false narrative. do you go ask the minority community in this country -- >> from ferguson? >> he will find out lots of people have lots of problems. >> bill: there is no history in that picture. >> wait a minute. i didn't lisa refer to ferguson
and the tensions between police and black people? 's >> bill: it had nothing to do with the police officer as a pig. that is not history! are you kidding? >> that is what some people have called -- >> bill: it doesn't matter, that's not history! >> can i answer? >> bill: that is not history. >> do you think -- >> bill: it doesn't matter. it's the appropriateness of the venue. last word, lisa. >> it's not just that. the way that the artist's is depicting ferguson is absolutely false. there is a false narrative that was driven by the left and the media and it has led to a lot of police deaths across this country and it is reprehensible for this member of congress to pick this painting among many to represent both himself and the congressional office. >> bill: we are talking specifically about ferguson. they are talking more broadly. >> bill: it doesn't matter, this congressman wanted to insult police my capitol. his name is lacy clay if you want to give him a buzz tomorrow, i'm sure he would like to talk to you. lisa, juan, thank you.
we will talk with kimberly guilfoyle about the state of california challenging donald trump on a number of issues. that could be. intense. and to gutfeld and mcguirk on your tax money being wasted in incredible ways. those stories after these messages. it's not just a car.. it's your daily retreat. go ahead, spoil yourself. the es and es hybrid. this is the pursuit of perfection.
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save now when you buy philips sonicare. >> bill: thanks for staying with us. i am fellow riley. the federal government versus the state of california. the showdown is coming. no question, donald trump in the golden state are in a collision course. the state will pay former attorney general eric holder to stop president trump from taking action against sanctuary cities. lieutenant governor gavin newsom says he may file suit against the trump administration if it tries to build a wall between california and mexico. on environmental reasons. governor jerry brown has nominated a far left guy to be the attorney general.
xavier. i'm not sure his first name. once married to gavin newsom, who i called gary, kimberly guilfoyle. [laughter] all right. it may be xavier, javier. >> we will settle without periods. when i got misled by somebody who i will beat up later. anyway, you have an interesting viewpoint or vantage point because you were married to newsom when he was the mayor of san francisco, which is the most far left major city in the country. to >> for sure. >> bill: a bout of people who don't live in california, they don't understand why this state has moved so far to the left. do you? >> they really feel that they have a mandate that they will be basically the head of state against -- for the antitrust movement. they really believe these ideologies. i would grow up, i was born and raised in san francisco. i saw what happened there,
horrible homeless problems. i worked as a prosecutor, assistant district attorney. this was the top sanctuary city, as you know, with the murder there of kate steinle. to >> bill: there was no remorse for her death. there was a justification, you saw it, we ambushed him, we ran him around at all of that. but again. >> i know, -- >> bill: what is the mentality of people who, despite seeing the homeless destroy their city, leading the league and property crimes, all of that, still refused to say, maybe we are not going in the right direction here? >> they refuse to actually equip themselves with the facts come,h the statistics. as you saw, this is a state that voted very strongly for hillary clinton. what they are not prepared for, they are ill-equipped, a fight that they are going to get. >> bill: who is going to end that? >> president-elect trump and sessions. >> bill: it will be jerry brown against donald trump,
essentially. who is going to end my? >> ultimately come , i think the governor, gavin newsom, i think he will win, he will -- he has punch on his podcast, also known as my ex-husband, he has pledged to go against donald trump. he said that the wall will never happen. they have filed an environmental lawsuit. >> bill: does he want open borders? newsom? does he want everyone to come in? >> he doesn't want to have closed borders. he will fight very, very aggressively against it. in addition too many -- >> bill: i'm trying to get into his mindset. if you were here, i would say, mr. newsom, do you support having anyone who wants to walk into the united states? what would he say? yes or no? >> eventually, he would say yes. >> bill: i think he would say yes but and make an excuse. >> i don't think he will make an excuse. he up embraces these policies. he is one of the top surrogates for hillary clinton during this
campaign. he is really going to -- >> bill: you say he's the next governor? >> i guarantee he will be the next governor. >> bill: the central part of california on the northern part, not that liberal, once you get away from the coast, they are mixed independent, mixed. but the coast, the coastal cities, san francisco, l.a., all of that southern california, with with the exception of orange county. you say they are true believers, they will never see another point of view, no matter how many policies do not work, they want a left-wing policy, they don't care whether they work boys because they want left-wing policies. i'll give you an example, when i was first lady, we had a program called "care, not cash. we didn't believe in giving people cash to let them use drug abuse. horrible homeless drug problem there. they will not allow you, essentially, to give services, which is what we tried to do, when i was married to gavin, they let couches on fire in front of my house. they rang the bell all hours of the day and night, death
threats, only because we were trying to help people. >> bill: you didn't want to give them cash because you knew they would spend the cash on the drugs? you want her to give other forms of assistance where they could help themselves but not by hair when? >> job training, rehabilitation. >> things lit on fire around the house, to the point it wasn't safe to stay there. >> bill: i usually walk away from that mentality when a seat on the street but i wanted to try to get involved and why so many californians think that way. gutfeld and mcguirk on deck. $5 billion of our tax money wasted by our country recently. the boys next. said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double.
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segment tonight, what the heck just happened? an amazing report released by senator jeff flake of arizona called "wastebook," porkemon go. it chronicles $5 billion, an amazing display of waste. here now, with the top three each, all right, gutfeld, what is your first run? >> they spent 300 grand trying to answer one thing, what are boys play with more often, transformers are barbies? i'm going to blow your mind here. it turns out they play with transformers. >> bill: why did they want to know what little boys play with, it dolls or the transformers? >> this is all part of the social science thing that is trying to say that boys and girls aren't any different, but they left out boys that don't play with transformers or barbies, boys like me, who just find things on the highway to play with. >> bill: okay. >> like women's shoes, scissors,
matches. >> bill: mcguirk, your first one. >> my first one is the ominous music makes people afraid of sharks. >> bill: how much was spent on ms.? >> they spent $3 million. the goal was to positively promote sharks. 2000 viewers was the test, they showed them shark videos and they determined that yes, the ominous music unfairly demonizes the sharks and the uplifting music, i don't know what it was, "the sound of music," it actually made people want to -- >> bill: $3 million for this agency, the government gave them 3 million tax dollars, okay, to find out if sharks are being demonized by music. >> that's right. >> bill: okay. number two. >> they spent 460 grand teaching computers or artificial intelligence to watch television to see how humans think. so, they had computers watch "desperate housewives," or "the office" so they could predict human behavior.
i think this is a great idea but they picked the wrong shows. they should have picked "the o'reilly factor," the artificial intelligence would say, not having it. not having it. kimberly guilfoyle, everybody. >> bill: 460,000, so computers could watch the shows and predict what again? what did they want to predict? >> so they can predict human behavior. they should have had them watch "mr. ed," so the computers thought that horses could talk. that would've been hilarious. >> the national institutes of health, $3.4 million to have male hamsters pitted against each other to "study aggression and anxiety in rodents." by the way, they used syrian hamsters, they said they were the most useful in these fights. i know what you are thinking. >> bill: he is banned syrian hamsters. >> why are we allowing syrian hamsters into this country? that ends january 20th. the conclusion is that the more hamster's right, the more they went would not come if they use steroids, they are more aggressive. >> bill: so, they had two
hamsters from syria fight each other -- >> at northeastern university. >> bill: perfect. perfect. you can't even wear a sombrero up there but you can have hamsters fighting. and the one on steroids with the kids to the one without steroids? >> that's correct. >> bill: did the steroid one? >> always won. >> bill: last one. >> this, actually think it's well worth it. they spent $88,000 looking at 500 years of climate change data and they saw a slight increase in temperature increases the quality of a fine wine. red wine taste better if the temperature goes up slightly, just slightly. this means that global warming is good, especially if you are a drunk like me. better wine means happier people, which means fewer wars, a better planet. ie, ergo, global warming equals global peace. we win. i love you. >> cheers! i like that. >> bill: 's what is your last one? >> my last run is how to be more popular online, actually.
how to be more popular online. one of the first photos containing faces, 38% more likely to receive likes. that is unless you have a face like brian kilmeade, of course. [other factor that increases the number of likes is having a lot. don't be posting pictures of your dead pets. >> bill: so, why does the government wants to know how to be more popular online? cloud where they want to know that? why would they spend money to find that out? >> so, they could burn money, bill. that is the whole idea. >> bill: i know that gutfeld has tax liens against them. it is not as personal. but mcguirk and i pay a lot of taxes. >> i like meeting people online. they don't know who i am. >> bill: >> to counter disinforn campaigns. >> bill: bottom line -- >> i met a woman online. >> i'm glad. we congratulate senator flake, good job, $5 billion on all this nonsense and not one penny should have been spent on it. gentlemen, thank you. and that is it for us tonight
because we have a whole bunch of stuff coming up. thanks again for watching. tomorrow on "the factor" rule we will cover donald trump's first press conference in quite a while. right, president obama warming up for his farewell address. the tenant off to tucker carlson, who was standing by in >> tucker: good evening i am tucker carlson, president obama's farewell address will be in chicago. there is other news tonight too. senate democrats went after jeff sessions today, of course, donald trump's pick for attorney general. in a few minutes, president obama will try to explain why his eight years in office have been a lot better than a lot of people seem to remember them. for a game attempt defending the obama legacy. but first, as we await the president, we are joined by fox news chief political anger.
>> of hope and change, his explanation of what happened in those eight years. obviously, you will hear a litany of defense of what he believes are his accomplishments but i think you're going to hear a lot about coming together as a country, perhaps some mornings to the president-elect, donald trump. and remember, this is 2,989 days after he del victory speech in grant park, just a short way away from mccormick place, where he is delivering this farewell address in chicago. and he is going to try to say that he made america a better place over eight years. i think you would have a lot of critics out there, especially even in chicago. where there are some who say things didn't get better and the election of donald trump was a repudiation of obama's policies. with a high approval rating,
politics has met about 4% tonight. >> tucker: so he wrote this speech himself or at least worked on it closely? if you want to know what obama really thinks, listen tonight. he is going to tell us what he really thinks. no political reasons. what he believes his legacy will be. do you think that is fair? >> i think he is laying the groundwork for his party. this is a democratic party trying to find itself. it is licking its wounds because he has lost under eight years of president obama, there are now fewer governors that are democrats, state legislatures have been obliterated as far as from a democratic point of view and obviously he doesn't have control of the house and the senate as he leaves office. something that he did have control of as he took office. in 2008. you have obamacare and the solution, the repeal and replace
it is going to come and all of the regulations that are going to be signed out by donald trump as he takes the office january 20th. >> tucker: he has suggested obliquely that he will continue to speak out on issues in his post-presidency. do you want to tell us more on that? >> we don't know, think that is the biggest question going forward. what does it look like in the post-presidency for president obama who will live in washington, d.c. his kids are still going to go to school there in washington and barring some figure who comes out for the democratic party to lead the way, president obama is probably that figure in the short term. >> tucker: you expect president-elect trump will respond in any way to the address tonight? >> i do, from the news conference tomorrow, i believe it 11:00 a.m. eastern time, you will hear a response.
probably directly. that will be president-elect trump's first press conference since election, it will be his first news conference since july, actually. >> tucker: interesting. the biggest issue on the table right now obviously is obamacare. if you could, rate the likelihood of a repeal and replacement of obamacare in the next few months. do you think it is high? >> i think it is high. grandpa went through a detailed plan tonight that president electron has signed on to. i think it is a tough hurdle, they have a lot of plans out there and they they're going te together it started already in the next couple months. >> tucker: it has got to be an awfully bitter thing for the still president obama to watch. >> it is, and that is his signature piece of legislation. you're going to hear a defense tonight, i think.
and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. so the wheels are coming off a little bit. if the wheels are not yet off you are starting to hear the start of lug nuts stripping their threads and pinging across lanes of traffic while the wheels start to wobble. there's a bit of a freakout in washington and we're seeing it on two big stories developing tonight. why is it always friday night? one of these two stories tonight, developing tonight that shows this freakout, one of them is about the administration itself, the other one breaking tonight appears to be about the prospect of investigation into the administration.
press, we the citizens of the united states know about the content of communications with the russian government? michael flynn was reportedly exposed as having lied about the content of his calls to the russian government because u.s. law enforcement or u.s. intelligence agencies were listening in on at least one call that was recorded and then transcribed. we have seen quotes and various newspapers from multiple officials who say they have seen the transcripts, the transcripts from michael flynn talking to a russian government official. even though the transcripts have never been leaked or published, we have been told what's in them. we have been told, it's been reported, that the transcripts show that mike flynn discussed u.s. sanctions on russia. everybody though he lied and said he didn't. we still don't know -- and this is going to end up being important -- we still don't know why michael flynn's calls with a russian official were reported and transcribed by u.s. officials.
if it was routine surveillance of foreign government officials in the united states, they always listen in on the russians. okay, that makes sense why a russian government official would have been recorded and had his communication transcribed but that kind of routine surveillance should not have included anything involving an american person. it was an official under routine surveillance, any american getting on the line, that should not be included in that surveillance because americans cannot be surveilled just because they happen to speak with foreign officials. if it was done under a fisa warrant, we would expect any person captured in the communication would be what they call minimized, would be excised out of the communication, wouldn't be recorded or transcribed, we would haven't access to what that u.s. person said. a communication involving a u.s. person is a different thing legally speaking than a communication involving just
foreigners. why do we have access to what flynn and a russian official were talking about? if there was a warrant out on michael flynn himself and that's why the call was being recorded, well, that would explain why we've got a recording and a transcript of what mike flynn said when he was talking to a russian official, but there's been nothing to indicate that mike flynn was the subject of a criminal warrant or the subject of a national security warrant, a fisa warrant which in that case you'd only be able to get because you suspected him of something very serious like espionage. we haven't seen anything that would indicate that there were warrants taken out to surveil mike flynn specifically. so that's one of the big things that's still to be determined here. one of the things we need to understand if we are going to know what has happened to our government and what's going on with this new presidency and particularly the russian connection. we still don't know the circumstances of how u.s. law enforcement or intelligence
agencies came to be monitoring and recording and transcribing calls between russian officials and mike flynn during the transition. if you are waiting for shoes to drop in this particular news environment, that one's like a big freaking logging boot that will fall off a ten-story window sill at some point. wear a hard hat. we are still waiting for an explanation of that and we don't have one. the other part of michael flynn's firing that never made sense, though was its timing. mike flynn reportedly had multiple conversations with russian government officials during the presidential campaign which, of course, is when russia was interfering in our presidential election to hurt hillary clinton and help donald trump, his multiple communications with russian officials, those also remain unexplained. what was he talking to the russian government about while the russian government was attacking our election? i would love to know. that said, further non-explained data here, michael flynn
apparently continued his communications with russian officials beyond the campaign past election day and into the transition. his conversations with the russian ambassador that led to his firing happened during the transition. they happened in late december around christmas and new year's. two weeks after that on january 15 the vice president, mike pence went on tv and assured the american public that michael flynn definitely didn't talk to the russians about sanctions during the transition. >> let me ask you about it. it was reported by david ignatius that the incoming national security adviser michael flynn was in touch with the russian ambassador on the day the united states government announced sanctions for russian interference with the election. did that contact help with that russian -- kind of moderate response to it? that there was no counter reaction from russia? did the flynn conversation help pave the way for that sort of
more temperate russian response? >> i talked to general flynn about that conversation. they didn't discuss anything having to do with the united states' decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against russia. what i can say is that those conversations that happened to occur around the time the united states took action to expel diplomats had nothing whatsoever to do with those sanctions. >> but that still leaves open the possibility that there might have been other conversations about the sanctions. >> i don't believe there were more conversations ant -- >> okay, let's move on. >> i can confirm that those elements were not part of that discussion. >> what mike pence said there was not true. we now know that michael flynn did discuss sanctions with the russian government even though mike pence said he didn't. so there are two possible ways to explain that. one is that, you know, vice president mike pence was knowingly lying. he was straight up lying.
he knew what flynn had actually done but he lied about it on tv. that's one possibility. that's a very dark possibility. the other possibility is that mike pence thought he was telling the truth. he thought he was telling the truth but because michael flynn fed him a b.s. story, mike pence innocently relayed that b.s. story to the american people as if it was true even though he wasn't in on the real facts of the matter. that latter story is what the white house decided to go with vice president mike pence would never knowingly lie to the american people, he passed on what mike flynn told him. that's the story from the white house. mike pence made those comments on tv january 15. 11 days later, january 26, the then acting attorney general of the united states sally yates, we now know, she went to the white house with apparently the
information gleaned from those transcripts, those recordings of michael flynn's calls talking to the russians. she brought that information to the white house and said basically "hey, what you've been saying about how mike flynn was communicating with the russians and what he was and wasn't talking to the russians about, what you've been saying is not true. mike flynn did talk to the russian government about the sanctions. and we know because we heard it and then we wrote it down. what does not make sense here, what has never made sense here is what happened after that visit from the department of justice. avenue that visit from the acting attorney general because what happened next after she told them mike flynn was, in fact, talking about sanctions when he talked to the russians. what happened next after she told him that was nothing. from january 26 all the way through the end of january all the way through the end of the first week through february, to february 13 the white house did nothing in response.
their line for why they had to fire michael flynn on february 13 is that they were so outraged that michael flynn lied to mike pence. look at mike pence. how dare you lie to him? how could you lie to somebody like that? they were so outraged they had to fire michael flynn but they found out about michael flynn supposedly lying to mike pence almost three weeks before. and it apparently took three weeks to start bothering them so much. it didn't bother them until it hit the news and then everybody found out that mike pence had talked about sanctions with the russian ambassador and had been lying about it, that's when they finally fired mike flynn. it's never made sense in the white house account of what happened to michael flynn and how he was fired and why he was fired. it has never made sense that the reason he had to go was that he lied to mike pence and nobody
lies to mike pence and gets away with it. the white house sat on the news of that lie for three weeks, did nothing about it before they finally got dragged into firing him because of public exposure. the only thing that makes sense is that his lies got finally publicly exposed. so why did it happen that way? what what they're saying makes no sense. why did it happen for real? why did they stick with mike flynn for so long even when the department of justice came to them and said he's lying and unless mike pence is in on the lie, he's apparently lying to mike pence, he's lying to the vice president and in terms of what he's lying about, remember, the department of justice told the white house they thought michael flynn as national security adviser might be vulnerable to russian blackmail. still they held on to him for another three weeks. they held on through a lot of
embarrassing stuff. there was a profoundly negative bipartisan reaction to him being appointed a top national security adviser to the campaign and them even more so to him being appointed actual national security adviser to the president. for somebody with such a distinguished military career, everything else about what mike flynn -- i don't mean it in the a mean way -- it was embarrassing. his online statements, the tweets he deleted, the ones he didn't, his son who he employed at his consulting business who was embarrassing enough and extreme enough that he has the rare distinction of being one of the only people ever fired from the trump apparatus for being too embarrassing even for these folks. michael flynn never had an explanation for why he took tens of thousands of dollars from the russian government through russian state-owned television. he never had an explanation for what he was doing not only taking their money but sitting next to vladimir putin at that
gala dinner for russia today and standing up and applauding putin at the end of putin's speech, giving him a standing ovation. leading the standing ovation for putin. then there was michael flynn being on the payroll for a foreign government while he was on the campaign during the transition. and that point, him being on another government's payroll, lobbying for another government while he was in the white house, right? while he was just transition official, while he was running -- that point is what has really sent the lug nuts skittering off the wheels in washington tonight. on election day, while michael flynn was serving as the top national security advisor to the republican candidate for president, michael flynn published this over-the-top op-ed in the hill newspaper. the op-ed praised the authoritarian leader of turkey.
it also called for the heads of his dissidents and opponents. it was weird at the time. the timing itself was weird because it was on election day but the content was weird and within days, the daily caller and politico confirmed this weird op-ed makes sense, he wasn't just writing that out of the goodness of his heart, actually michael flynn's consulting group is being paid to represent the interest of the government of turkey retired general michael flynn in the running for a top national security post in the new administration runs a consulting firm that is lobbying for turkish interests. this wasn't like a rumor or like a secret. the daily caller reported it, politico reported it, cnn reported it, the a.p. reported it, bloomberg reported it. on the 11th of november some dumb cable show did a big long story at the top of the hour at 9:00 eastern on msnbc. it was widely publicly known and discussed that michael flynn and his consulting company were taking money to represent the turkish government.
they were lobbying for the turkish government's interests. while he was the top of the national security apparatus in the trump transition, while he was advising trump on national security matters, he was taking that money, he'd been on the turkish payroll during the presidential campaign. well, now this week finally mike flynn has finally retroactively registered with the justice department as a foreign agent. he has admitted that he took hundreds of thousands of dollars to lobby for the government of turkey last year between august and november. but again this filing is retroactive. he's not filing now to say he's about to start taking noun lobby for the turkish government. he's filing now to report that he was lobbying for the turkish government last year while he was also working for trump. now, the white house said today that president trump had no idea, no idea that michael flynn was an agent of a foreign government while he was advising
the trump campaign and leading the national security part of the trump ran the sigts and honestly while he was sitting in on the presidential daily brief and all of the other things he did as part of the trump effort. maybe amazingly that's true that president trump had no idea michael flynn was a foreign agent while he was doing that because maybe the president consumes no news and information that is publicly available to the rest of us, maybe he didn't notice anything on cable news, maybe he didn't notice anything on the daily caller or the a.p. or cnn or bloomberg or any of it, just didn't notice. but you know, just a week after we did that big segment that we did on michael flynn working for a foreign government, one week after that democratic congressman elijah cummings wrote to the trump transition team to formally alert them to these credible news reports that the top national security adviser was lobbying for turkish interests.
notification from congress and now today the associated press has confirmed that the transition team beyond the letter from elijah cummings, beyond the news coverage and public discussion, the transition team was formally notified by michael flynn's lawyers during the transition that he was on the payroll of a foreign government. "lawyers for flynn told trump transition team that flynn might need to register as an agent for a government foreign power. so even if you believe that president trump never heard any of this, how did you find out about this crazy story? oh, it was in the a.p.? even the president had no access to that publicly available information we know for certain the white house is tonight confirming that even if they're still saying the president
didn't know they're confirming the transition knew. the transition team was informed at the highest levels that michael flynn maybe needed to register as a foreign agent. even if you don't -- even if the president somehow was completely immune to this information, the white house confirms the transition knew. that the head of the transition was informed. who is the head of the transition? an incredibly honest looking gentleman named mike pence. >> michael flynn has filed with the department of justice as a foreign agent for making more than $500,000 as a lobbyist for turkey. your reaction to that considering that doesn't that mean mr. vice president that even if he didn't lie to you about what the russian ambassador said or didn't say, that you would have had to fire him anyway? >> well, let me say hearing that story today was the first i heard of it and i fully support the decision that president
trump made to ask for general flynn's resignation. >> you're disappointed by the story? >> the first i heard of it and i think it's an affirmation of the president's decision to ask general flynn to resign. >> first of all, bret baier at fox asks the question perfectly. he lays it out, lays it out accurately, let me get your reaction. basically saying is this not a significant scandal involving general flynn? how does mike pence respond to that? play that bit again. >> well, let me say hearing that story today was the first i heard of it. >> that was not actually the question you were asked. but -- nobody asked when you heard of it but twice mike pence volunteers that this is all news to him. >> you're disappointed by the story? >> it's the first i heard of it. >> it is impossible this is the first time mike pence has heard of it.
mike pence was the head of the transition. all of those stories about michael flynn on the payroll of turkey, he was the head of the transition when michael flynn was being vetted for the national security adviser job, he was the head of the transition when congress formally notified the head of the transition that michael flynn appears to be on a foreign government's payroll. he was the head of the transition when michael flynn's personal lawyers came and told the head of the transition that michael flynn maybe needed to register as a foreign agent and now mike pence's explanation to this whole story inexplicably is he's never heard any of this. >> let me say hearing that story today was the first i heard of it. >> that cannot be true. there is something wrong in this story. there's something wrong here. it's one thing to pick somebody manifestly unfit for the job of national security adviser to be national security adviser, that's one thing. it's another thing if you bring somebody on board to a top
national security position while they're also on the payroll of a foreign government and you either don't notice or don't care and you have them sit in on the president's daily brief and you have them receive and deliver intelligence briefings while another government is paying them to represent that foreign government. that's a second-level scandal here. but it's a third level of scandal when you start making utterly implausible denials that you had any knowledge of this thing that not only happened in plain view but you very clearly did know about it at the time that it was happening and you were notified of it directly. what's going on with the michael flynn story and his links to foreign governments? honestly it didn't make sense why they hired him in the first place. their explanation for why he was fired makes no sense whatsoever. especially if you believe that mike pence was the innocent wronged party in that drama, then it really doesn't make sense.
now that we have mike flynn lawyering up or at least starting to cover his legal tracks and retroactively filing as a foreign agent from the time he was managing intelligence briefings for the new president, now their explanation for that part of the story also makes absolutely no sense and does not comport with the facts. why can't they simply explain what happened here? mike flynn's gone, you can blame the whole thing on him, but you have to make sense if it happened the way you said it did. why are the denials and explanations around him and his contacts with foreign governments, why are they getting more arcane, more incoherent and more elaborate? nobody asked mike pence when he first found out mike flynn was a foreign agent. why is he repeatedly volunteering an implausible answer to that unasked question? on this one, the white house makes no sense. they appear to be trying to protect themselves or position themselves, maybe in the event of further questions here, further revelations here, maybe an investigation here? we can see the freakout happening.
we do not yet know why they are freaking out like this about this. but if they're freaking out about the prospect of a real investigation into this kind of stuff then that explains what else happened tonight. and that's next. when you hit 300,000 miles. or here, when you walked away without a scratch. maybe it was the day your baby came home. or maybe the day you realized your baby was not a baby anymore. every subaru is built to earn your trust. because we know what you're trusting us with. subaru. kelley blue book's most trusted brand. and best overall brand. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. [kids cheering] [kids screaming] call the clown! parents aren't perfect but then they make us kraft mac & cheese
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on the day donald trump asked preet bharara to stay on from the obama administration to continue his work as a u.s. attorney in into new administration, that exact day, preet bharara was on twitter crowing about the fact that it was the one year anniversary of him locking up the speaker of the assembly in new york state. he has bicameral interests, though, he also incidentally nailed the leader of the new york state senate as well. he also nailed two of governor andrew cuomo's top advisors recently. preet bharara was appointed by barack obama there 2009 and it is not unheard of for a prosecute to stay on beyond their four year term even into a new presidency if the next president wants to keep them on. in this case, when donald trump became the new president, he decided he want preet bharara to say on. >> the president-elect asked me because he's a new yorker and is aware of this great work our office has done asked me whether
i'd be prepared to stay on as the united states attorney to do the work as we have done it independently without fear of favor for the last seven years. we had a good meeting. i said i would consider staying on. i agreed to stay on. i have already spoken to senator sessions who is, as you know, the nominee to be the attorney general. he also asked i stay on so i expect i'll be continuing to work at the southern district of new york. that's all i have. >> that was right around the end of november, so after the election, the early days of the transition "i agreed to stay on. that's all i have but thank you." i agreed to stay on, i was asked to stay on by donald trump, by jeff sessions personally, i have agreed to stay on. now something has happened and apparently he's out. in one fell swoop, the trump administration asked for the
resignation of 46 obama administration federal prosecutors, u.s. attorneys in the justice department and i should tell you, it's not unheard of for a new president to clean house of all the u.s. attorneys from the previous administration. it doesn't always happen but it's not unprecedented. in 1993, president bill clinton's new attorney general janet reno replaced all the u.s. attorneys across the country as well. but nobody had any idea this was coming today. they had not given any signal that was going to happen and they made this unannounced decision to drop the hammer on all the remaining u.s. attorneys at once. they reportedly started calling people late today to tell them to submit their resignations effective immediately these u.s. attorneys are gone tonight. boom, boom, done. the ranking member of the senate judiciary committee, dianne feinstein, released this statement. she writes "in january i met with vice president pence and white house counsel don mcgahn and asked specifically whether
all u.s. attorneys would be fired at once. mr. mcgann told me the transition would be done in an orderly fashion to preserve continuity. this is not the case, i'm very concerned about this unexpected decision in federal law enforcement. they previously said they wouldn't do this but tonight they decided to. part of what remains here as a question is whether this applies to preet bharara, too. because he kind of had a special deal he was asked to stay on by the president, by the attorney general. he accepted. tonight nbc news asked the justice department if this new order applies to preet bharara, if they want him to stay on or leave and the justice department told nbc "ask the white house." nbc called the white house to ask about preet bharara's situation and the white house said "ask the justice department."
so somewhere between the white house and the justice department maybe somebody knows but we don't know for sure either way. i mean, the president has the power to fire preet bharara if he wants to. he's allowed to do that. but it would be a strange and dramatic decision if he did it because there was an overt personally worked out deal admitted publicly to keep him on. what happened since then? why have they decided preet bharara has to go? is there something to be afraid of? in addition to his reputation for aggression in prosecuting public corruption, it may be that his jurisdiction here matters. being the u.s. attorney for manhattan doesn't mean that you cover, for example, all of wall street. it also means in his case his jurisdiction includes the headquarters of trump tower where you see him there the day he made his deal to stay on. two days ago a letter was sent to preet bharara from a few different ethics watchdog groups asking him based on his jurisdiction in manhattan to investigate whether the trump organization is receiving
illegal financial benefits from foreign governments that are redownding to the president himself. "we call on you as the united states attorney for the jurisdiction where the trump organization is located to exercise your responsibility to investigate and take appropriate action to ensure the trump organization and related trump business enterprises do not receive payments and financial benefits from foreign governments that benefit president trump." so that letter was sent from ethics watchdogs groups to preet bharara two days ago. you have jurisdiction here. if the president is getting payments ftom foreign governments through his businesses because he's not divested, you have jurisdiction to investigate that. that letter went to preet bharara two days ago. now apparently preet bharara has been fired two days later. what are you so afraid of? we've got a good guest on this subject coming up who may be able to shed light on what's
going on here, why this has happened, but i should tell you that there is one previous example just in case this becomes relevant. there is one previous example of a federal prosecutor in new york resisting and saying no when a president tried to remove him. his name was robert morgenthau. in 1969 he had the same gig preet bharara has now. president nixon called for robert morgenthau's head and he dug in his heels and said he would not leave. he would resist being fired. it was dramatic but the way it ended is he had to leave because the president can decide who's in these jobs. the president has this power. why a president chooses to use to exercise it at a time like this making a u-turn from his previous decision without any advanced notice and any explanation, that's a really interesting question regardless of whether or not he's got the power to do it. that's next. per roll
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president initiated a call to me saying he wanted mr. bharara to remain. by asking for the resignation before their replacements have been confirmed or nominated the president is interrupting ongoing cases and investigations and hindering the administration of justice. any president can clean house like this. a president can switch the u.s. attorneys out. but why tonight? why so abruptly? and why ask preet bharara to stay and then change your mind. joining us now is charlie savage, he's been reporting on the latest move by the trump administration, he's the author of power wars, inside obama's post 9/11. mr. savage, thank you very much for being here tonight, thank you. so he can appoint as many u.s.
attorneys as he likes, is this a standard operating procedure for his administration? is there anything unusual about the fact that there was no announcement or the fact that there was no announcement to replace these attorneys? >> the first point is absolutely a president can remove u.s. attorneys at will, they serve at the pleasure of the president and it is not unusual for a new president, especially when there's been a change of party, to replace the 93 top federal prosecutors in federal districts around the country. typically it happens on a more rolling basis with transition time and we'll replace this guy and then that guy and then this woman or as you mentioned earlier there was one precedent for a mass firing which came
from president bill clinton in march of -- 1993 even that was a little different than this then however because the people weren't all told the pack up their offices and get out by the close of business that day. i talked to one of president george h.w. bush's u.s. attorneys who was there in january of 1993 when president bill clinton took over in mckay in seattle and -- michael mckay and he told me well i was going to leave but when this thing came down they let me stay three weeks beyond that, there was another guy he remembered who had had a big investigation open, they let him stay. so this very abrupt get out is part of what's unusual about this unexpected mass firing which we did not expect to happen in one big gulp but we did expect to happen in slow motion over quite a lot of time. >> in terms of your reporting and your understanding of the dynamics at work here, was there a beef? was there a political analysis that made this seem like an
imperative? was there a grudge against the u.s. attorneys as a group? >> i don't know about the u.s. attorneys but for the last few weeks as these various leaks have been coming out about trump campaign officials and michael flynn and contacts with russia and chaos inside the trump administration there's been a growing counternarrative in conservative circle which is is that all these leaks are sabotage by leftover obama era officials who are embedded in the government and are -- need to be purged. we've had a growing clamor of conservative talk radio people and members of congress escalating with sean hannity on fox news saying it's time for trump to purge -- his word -- all of these saboteurs, his word, which means ever holdover obama-era official, he has to get them out. and hannity in particular talked about how clinton got rid of all 93 u.s. attorneys at the beginning of his administration and it was no big deal.
>> on the issue of preet bharara specifically, there's two things at work here. one he has jurisdiction geographically over what would include the trump organization, two, there was a public announcement he would stay on i think that's a particular point of concern for people looking at this story tonight. >> we don't know. stuff may come out but in from this vantage point at this moment in time i think the most likely explanation is that at the time that trump made that deal with preet bharara in november of last year, he was in a sort of moment of bromance with chuck schumer the incoming democratic minority leader, he was like we can work with this guy, we can find common ground when somebody people on the left were saying scorched earth schumer was saying no, let's find things we can do together and this was a gesture towards senator schumer because preet
bharara is a long time -- prior to being u.s. attorney was counsel to chuck schumer, chuck schumer was his patron, chuck schumer got him the position of being u.s. attorney by telling barack obama he should nominate him. so that was a gesture. since then relations between president trump and chuck schumer have become increasingly toxic, trump has insulted schumer and schumer in turn called for an independent investigation into the russia thing, he said jeff sessions should resign. they are not friends anymore and that may be why this deal that sort of was thrown together capriciously in november when things looked very different no longer was that attractive to trump or to sessions. >> if we ever find outs about the presence or absence of any trump-related investigations out of the u.s. attorney's office you'll probably be the guy who writes the amazing book about it. charlie savage, pulitzer prize winning correspondent for the "new york times." thanks. >> thank you very much.
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to see what's coming down that road. >> on point, senator, on point. so what is your advice to your constituents? folks who experience this administration as an unmanned fire hose. >> there are people who are afraid right now about the environment, about health care, ant immigration, education. >> people shouldn't be afraid, i don't think, in this country, we should be proud. >> don't be afraid. be -- it appears a lot of senator gardner's constituents are deciding to be proud. in part on his office doorstep. they have mounted a long-standing and forceful effort to push senator cory gardner to say no to trump plans and republican plans on everything from repealing the affordable care act to the muslim ban to the wall on the mexican border, coloradoens have been demanding time with their
senator, they have been pressuring him to hold town halls, they have been be doing whatever they can to reach him to get his attention through prank missing poster signs. try to initiate contact. see the small print there? if you have seen or heard from this man, please inform his constituents. they've tried flattery, senator gardener, will you make a date with colorado? they have tried getting his attention by holding town halls without him where they pose questions to a cardboard version of cory gardner. they have made art from his face. that pressure may be starting to move things. after the president's first muslim ban took effect senator gardner called on the president to change it. says it goes too far. i urge the administration to take the appropriate steps to fix this overly broad executive order. on the subject of health reform this we can he joined three other republican senators in saying he wouldn't support and
he did it under cover of one of these telephone town halls, one of the things that they set up to save their constituency without having to be anywhere near them. luckily someone had the foresight to record this. it turns out once the senator is confronted by his constituents directly, he's less shy when he talks to them about it. >> as far as the wall goes, i believe we have to have border security. but i do think billions of dollars on a wall, i don't need a tariff -- we do need security on the border, but that may mean personnel, it may mean a fence,
may mean an electronic fence. we shouldn't just build a wall at millions of dollars because that's what somebody said should be done. >> we shouldn't just build a wall just because somebody says it should be done. republican senator corey gardner coming out against spending billions on the border wall and his constituents got him to do a town hall to say that and when they got him to say it, they got him to say it on tape. the pressure is working and so are the tape recorders. >> we shouldn't just build a wall at billions of dollars because that's what somebody said should be done.
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this was the museum that isis captured in 2014 and they showed the video of isis taking sledge hammers to the artifacts. all they were able to find were piecemeal remains of tablets and syrian statues, pieces of the super rare ancient culture destroyed. in terms of what's going to happen next, there's one thing we're told to anticipate next in terms of the fight against isis to take back the rest of mosul. one other building besides that museum in mosul since isis has had it and it's from the one time that the head of isis has ever been seen in public, the place where he declared himself
the kalif of muslims, it's the al-nuri mosque. we are now told to expect that iraqi troops are closing in on that mosque now. they are about to take it back from sooiisis after all these y. watch this space. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced. our senses awake. our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say...if you love something set it free. see you around, giulia
but there's no place like home. there's always something different to do like skiing in the winter, jet skiing in the summer. we can do everything. new york state is filled with bright minds like samantha's. to find the companies and talent of tomorrow, search for our page, jobsinnewyorkstate on linkedin. one thing to keep an eye on this weekend, we've been trying to watch town halls and constituents getting in touch with their members and senators in congress, in part because that sometimes is leading to obvious change in the views and behavior of those members of congress. darrell issa had a town hall in his district during the congressional recess that a lot of his constituents went to but he didn't. he is apparently going to be doing two town halls tomorrow. they are both totally full up, oversubscribed.
believe me, is the united states of america. >> tucker: the president also denied allegations he pressured to fired fbi james coming to advance in an investigation of former national security advisor michael flynn. >> did you urge james comey in any way, shape, or form, to back to me investigation against michael flynn? >> no. no. next question. >> tucker: donald trump is a volatile president. he's impulsive, he changes course on a dime, sometimes without claiming why. he's elusive about what he really believes that he talks and tweets about himself too much, too much for his own good or for the country's good. by the way, he's not always a great manager. the white house is actually pretty chaotic right now, but not just media spin. it's real. if you voted for tom, you already know this. you probably knew it back in november when you voted for him. but what you also knew, and what has worth remembering right now, is that there are worse things than what we currently have. so, the left badly wants to
remove donald trump from office, not with votes in the next presidential election as you typically see in working democracies, but they want to remove him right now, today, using legal action or impeachment, mass protests, whatever. it doesn't really matter how it happens. by any means necessary, they often say. the left wants to do this for a number of reasons. but mostly because they used to be in power but they aren't anymore and they would much like to be so again. okay, so, let's imagine they get their way. trump goes a mayor and tried once again. what happens then? this is worth thinking about because the democratic party of right now bears almost no resemblance to the democratic party of ten years ago, much less the democratic party you grew up with. it has changed in ways that ought to worry you. the modern left is no longer an ideological movement. instead, it's an organized movement around identity politics. that's the idea that every american is a member of a subgroup, usually a racial category, and the point of achieving power is to win spoils for that group.
another word for this is tribalism and it's the most divisive possible way to run a country. because it's not about ideas and based instead on immutable characteristics, identity politics is inherently unreasonable. there is no winning arguments or even having arguments. if there is only victory or defeat for the group you belong to you. your gain is my loss by definition. in the end, every group finds itself at war with every other group. it is the perfect inversion, the perfect pro version, of the american ideal. out of 1, benny. and it never ends well. we know this because it is the story of much of the rest of the world. and the left has brought here to america. once you understand this, you begin to see the futility is dealing with modern progressives as just another political faction, people you can reason with or perhaps convince. they don't want to argue. they want to win. the old rules that you are member, those mean nothing to them. the left doesn't believe american traditions are noble or worth preserving. on the contrary, anything old must be destroyed.
that would include the basic institutions of our society going back to colonial times. the nuclear family, freedom of speech, traditional religious faith, the rule of law, all of these are under direct and open assaults by the left. this is not an exaggeration. they are not pretending anymore. they are saying it. indeed, the left has grown so impatient, much more than ever, that it is now unable to acknowledge the basic legitimacy of any government act they disagree with. every executive order here is an opportunity to demand massive resistance to the law itself. every expression of conservative opinion is a chance to get somebody else fired. every fake hate crime is the opportunity to demand new concessions that are granted even when the fraud is exposed. now, beneath all of us, which is the monster under the bed, as a threat of violence. at this stage, only the fringes are calling for that, but the rest of us know it's there. we can feel it. sometimes, especially recently, we can see it. and that is the end, or the beginning of it. violence is what separates politics for more. it's a point or hurt feelings
become dead bodies. the point at which countries become ungovernable part of the people that can begin leaving for somewhere else. you don't want to get there. the most important thing our leaders can do is prevent that from happening yet increasingly, they are refusing to pay the kind of arguments we used to have in washington centered around tax rates are trade agreements. suddenly, that seems antique. here's what we are talking about now. watch what happened with mees two progressives were asked on this show whether they would condemn a political violence. >> because of his race, he was pulled from his truck and smash room had with a cinderblock until he sustained a brain damage. it was a hate crime if there ever was one. it all happen on videotape, helicopter caught it, and it happened and maxine waters' city. but she did not denounce the attack preyed on the contrary, she all but endorsed the attack. that puts her outside the pale, endorsing violence, that is a line, she crossed it. >> i don't know if we would have our current president if that was a line. >> she has a right to say what she thinks. >> tucker: is that a legitimate tactic, to smash windows? >> is not effective.
>> is it legitimate? so, it's okay? there is time when losing violence -- i am asking you a philosophical question. >> i can't answer every question when violence is appropriate or not. >> tucker: "i can't answer whether violet is appropriate or not." okay. until they can answer "yes," on hesitatingly, we are in danger. >> dana loesch is a radio host d a spokesman for the national rifle association and she joins us tonight. use those clips, you have been awake in america for the past nine months. do you think that the left is very different from what it was two years ago and do you think they are ready to leave the country if they succeed in eliminating the president from office? >> tucker, thanks for having me. it sure does feel different. it feels way differently than it used to. i get the sense -- this is what really troubles me. you mentioned tribalism. there are people on the left who
are so try ballistic, tucker, that they are not willing to admit what is truth. they want to be right. they prioritize being right, prioritize winning an argument, over what is true and over what is correct. and we have seen mistrust in the clip that you play. we have seen this over and over. it seems as though that they take personal offense whenever you point out, this is what you are pushing, promoting, simply doesn't add up. that is a problem. we should never get to the point where we are more for a tribe then we are for truth. sadly, these individuals, they seem to be so triggered about it, to use their terms, that it does push them to the point of violence. violence is not civil discourse. violence is not reasonable discourse. it is of the last refuge of the coward. it is the last refuge of the person who cannot make their argument intellectually. and that is what we are seeing from a lot of those people, particularly on the fringe on the left. >> tucker: i agree. here is what i think has changed.
there have always been wackos on the fringes of american politics, ready to take up arms and hurt up other people and been neighborhood rather because they are for. i get it. but what i am shocked by is that the leaders on the left haven't said anything about it. when you press them, is it acceptable to shout down a speaker, do smash store windows, to take to the streets, block traffic, those are acts of violence. they will not condemn them. that is different. >> no. they won't. and that is shameful. for all of the individuals and some of the people on the left, i see them on social media, tucker, i know you do come too. you talk about them on your show. i've seen you debate them. there are individuals who say i guess we will take up arms because we didn't get our way in the election. they think that is going to be easier than going out into the street and changing hearts and minds? what a lazy response. they can't go out to vote to somewhat make them think they will be able to win some kind of conflict. it's insane. elected officials need to be able, they should, they are required, it is their responsibility to be able to
control the passions of their side and say, you know what, there are better ways to go about this. instead of attacking people when they are on college campuses or attacking people in the street because you don't like the inauguration or for damaging property. they need to be more responsible for the passions, tucker, that they are inflaming. >> tucker: these are not partisan points. by the way, i would like to see leaders on both sides and the congress make an articulate defense of basic american values. first among them, freedom of speech. you have a right to say would you think is true. a period. there is no hedges on that. hate speak is not a legal category. that is all a y. so much a stand up for that and the right of people to do that without fear of violence. i don't hear anybody saying that. why is that? >> that's a great question. i hear people who are on the right side of the aisle sang it quite frequently. i know people like you say it, people like me say it. but on the left, though, tucker, maxine waters, or the people you
spoke to in the clip that you played at the beginning of the segment, what is so wrong with saying that violence is unacceptable? if we see violence on our side because they always had, remember the tea party, they always have the tea party was so violent, if we were to see anything like that, what didn't happen, we would have called it out because that is not what we are about. the left needs to figure out what they are about. tucker, we are rolling towards 2018, we are rolling towards 2020. folders already told these people, the fringe, we don't buy your identity politics. we like jobs, trade, manufacturing cap. can you people please get back to the point? that is what they're based told them. they are not doing it, tucker. >> tucker: they don't believe it. i think that's it. if you have maxine waters, who is endorsing racial violence, which she explicitly did, after the l.a. riots, and she becomes a folk hero, that is a huge red flag i think. dana loesch, thanks a lot for joining us. it was great. >> i agree. >> tucker: special counsel robert mueller has performed less than a day of work for the
congresswoman maxine waters is confident what he'll find. here's what you just said. >> we are going to learn a lot about the connections between this president, his allies, and the kremlin. it is going to be very revealing and i know a lot of people don't like to hear the word impeachment but i believe that it's going to lead right to impeachment. >> tucker: is it responsible or wise to throw out the word impeachment so confidently and casually before the facts are in? exactly candace is a former dnc former advisor. he led the trump war room and he joins us now. thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: i am playing by rules that are clearly out of date. but i thought the democrats are calling for an independent investigation because they wanted to know what the facts were. here, we have an independent investigation, run by someone whose integrity i don't think anyone is calling into question, and yet, they skipped right past the investigation are calling for impeachment. >> i am not calling for impeachment. other democrats i know are not calling for impeachment. there are certain individuals are calling for impeachment.
i encourage you to have them on the show to talk about that. that is not where i am. where i am, we need to ensure that this investigation is allowed to go forward, this investigation is well resourced, this investigation is not interfered with and the way that these investigations have been interfered with in the past by this white house. b-1 is so, how are we going to do that? >> i think we have to remain vigilant. there's a lot of ways this administration can screw with us investigation, and that means cutting off resources, that it includes interference. let's remember -- -- >> tucker: i don't think it is. by statute, if i'm mistaken, please, call into the show and set me straight if you are a lawyer fluent in this. but i think as a matter of fact, independent counsel has a budget that is not subject to the whims of the white house. it -- >> an independent counsel is different of a special prosecutors in the past. this is within the hierarchy come over the chain of command. >> tucker: i'm aware. it's not exactly -- i read of the announcement
yesterday. >> come department of justice filed a spiritual counselor not? >> tucker: yes. i think that is reassuring. you never want anyone with the power that an independent prosecutor has, who is totally beyond the control of anyone, that would be a dictatorship. you would never want that. >> the last time we had a an independent counsel or something similar that could be fired by the white house, they were, his name was archibald cox, during the watergate scandal. >> tucker: here's the thing. you are saying you are not for impeachment but i just can't let you skate that easily on that, considering there is a brand-new "new york times" piece about 20 minutes ago, pointing out that the democratic grassroots are not only for impeachment, but a number member of congress, number people running for office in off year elections, there is a national march for impeachment. maxine waters says "i know that there are those that are talking about that we will get ready for the next election, mimicking her more cautious colleagues, no, we can't wait that long. we don't need to eat that long. we need to impeach."
she said we don't believe in elections. >> i strongly encourage you to have maxine waters on. i told you what a make of it. we are not at impeachment. we are out investigation. we need to make sure it is not hindered by this white house, that we can get to the facts because the fact that we know right now are pretty damaging. >> tucker: here is the leader of democracy for america. "we cannot have congress sit back and let this play out with trump and his stooges. congress needs to impeach trump." this is "the new york times" ." this is a movement on the left to short-circuit the democratic process. they are saying we can't wait for the stupid election. >> you can cherry picks are democratic leaders but what most of us are calling for -- >> tucker: the head of democracy for america? >> i'm a democrat and i am telling you what we are calling for is a robust investigation to get to the bottom of this. we need to protect our democracy from the intervention --
>> tucker: i am gratified to hear that you are committed to our systems. >> absolutely. >> tucker: our centuries old system. >> centuries old. >> tucker: you are think i might you want to say, your colleagues and allies won't say, word one about this investigation until it wraps up, years from now, we find of the facts. that is what you're saying? >> about the investigation? >> tucker: the one run by robert mueller? >> i think people can comment on it. i don't know how it is -- >> tucker: you are applying political pressure to someone. if you are yapping on television -- >> bob mueller is susceptible to political pressure in the news. >> tucker: what would be the poignant -- >> that you would say that he would be susceptible to pressure in the news by us democrats calling for us? that is just outrageous! >> tucker: no mortal man is above pressure. period. >> got it. >> tucker: there is no reason to comment on this. is there? unless you are trying to apply pressure to robert mueller or the many attorneys working for
him. that is the real thing. so, why would you comment on it? until we get the facts? >> the issue is not commenting on investigations. the issue is calling the fbi director before you are in the oval office and telling you to knock off the investigation. that is a problem. that is interfering in the election. >> tucker: that is also over and we moved onto a step that you have been calling for four months. on the white house has ceded to pressure from the left, perhaps very foolishly. if you are thrilled about that, that's a bad sign. they did it. >> i'm not the only one thrilled about it. republicans -- >> tucker: i'm sure. i'm just saying, you called for this and now, you are going to see your friends in the democratic party saying that it's not enough, we need to remove him from power. we can't wait for voters to decide. you can't say that's wrong? >> i have said repeatedly on the show that i think that impeachment is not the right move. we need to be insuring to this investigation goes through in a robust way.
>> tucker: good. then, you know what? your within the bounds as far as i'm concerned. i hope you stick to that position. >> i will. >> tucker: believe in the rule of law and democracy. zac, thanks for coming on. donald trump destroyed jeb bush by calling him low energy but now the white house is being accused of lethargy weighed on my multiple scandals. up next, charles krauthammer will be were here with my voice a trump administration get back on track fast. also, the economist magazine predicted the donald trump residency what amount to an economic and catastrophe. we'll ask forecasters what this guy is still firmly in place above our heads six months after his victory. and my impractical wardrobe changes, those all set? not even close. oh, this is probably going to shine in your eyes at the worst possible time. perfect. we're looking at a real train wreck here, am i right? wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back with 1% when you buy, and 1% as you pay.
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♪ >> tucker: whether you support the president or not, it seems clear that has white house has been slow down, not immobilized, by recent advance. immigration reform on obamacare repeal have been brushed off the agenda for now, replaced by constant flareups over james comey, russia, or some of the presidents tweeting. trump is still the president and his party still controls congress for another 18 months at minimum. how can the white house get its mojo back and reclaim its freedom of action? this is a question that charles krauthammer has pondered. he is a writer, a columnist, and a psychiatrist and your favorite thinker, and he joins us now. charles, what can the white house to? if you are to give them five pieces of advice, what would it be? >> i think you take your playbook from bill clinton. he was tied up in the lewinsky scandal, in his case, he knows he is lying from the beginning. he keeps on lying. but he was able to keep a straight face, try to keep his nose to the business he wanted
to carry out, the famous statement, "i did not have sexual relations" ends with i'm going to go back to work. he pretended as if this thing was a distraction. he went back to work. what trump needs to do is spend less effort and time and emotional energy on this, starting with, you make an unimpeachable fbi director appointment. right now, he needs to calm the craziness. i think he actually was helped by the appointment of the special counsel. even though, in the long run, it means the white house loses control of it. in the short run, people say, there is an investigation, let's talk about health care, let's talk about tax reform. that will take care of it. it's a way to deflect. if you make a good appointment for the fbi, by good, i mean politically astute, which means somebody unimpeachable on
"special report," i said you need a eliot ness. that gives you a lot of points and allows you to move onto other stuff. that would be my number one. >> tucker: was number two? >> stop tweeting. that is never going to happen because i think he is hardwired, like neurologically, attached to his tweeting machine. but it would help because when you tweet, you see what you really believe and that is not always -- it's not usually the smartest thing in politics. >> tucker: [laughs] >> i tell the truth because it is easier to memorize. but i am not the president, a politician. >> tucker: [laughs] true. >> a gap in washington is when the politician accidentally tells the truth. they are so much emotional truth pouring out of the presidents tweeting machine that he gets in trouble. >> tucker: too much reality. >> number three, go on the foreign trip. thereby, number four code, change the narrative. he has a real opportunity. there is going to be a big deal
what happens in saudi arabia. there are going to be 50 sunni arab countries there. there is going to announcement to the world of the total reversal of the obama era iran appeasement policy. we chose a radical shiite regime. we chose their favor over the sunni arabs who want to do support us and over israel, which will be stopped number two. that will be a big deal. it will allow him to announce and really exemplify a huge change in foreign policy. the last thing is, daily sessions with dr. krauthammer. >> tucker: [laughs] >> i'm still licensed, board-certified, and he's the only one who could afford my rates. >> tucker: can you give us a sense of the range of your rates? >> they start -- let's say they start in the stratosphere. in his case, i would double that. >> tucker: our viewers have been getting your services for the price only of a monthly
cable subscription. >> i know. i am truly underpaid. >> tucker: [laughs] last question. you think the president can follow at least the first four of these? >> he is making his trip. he doesn't easily compartmentalize. he doesn't have that kind of almost psychopathic ability to make distinctions, as clinton did. i think he gets sort of into anything, and it takes them ove over. i don't think he can but that is why he needs to see me. probably for an hour a day for several years. >> tucker: [laughs] do you have visiting hours? >> by appointment only. >> tucker: [laughs] dr. charles krauthammer. fantastic. thank you. >> sure. >> tucker: the economist magazine predicted economic clout of any of donald trump won. he did. the lights are still on. what happened? we'll talk to one of the economist expert forecasters next. computer.
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them. thanks a lot for joining us tonight. one of my personal obsessions, not just with a trump election, but just with all of the predictions one hears in our business, is that nobody ever stands up and says that "i was wrong." the pleasure of hearing you say that will make my day. how did you get it so wrong? >> nothing will give me greater pleasure than making your day. but we haven't gotten it wrong yet. >> tucker: [laughs] really? >> we are four months in a four year presidency. we will see where we end up. you are not completely wrong. we were a little bit off in some places because it hasn't gone as badly as we feared. in many ways, we avoided the worst, and we are still helping a little bit for the past. when i talk about the worst, global trade wars, trump had branded trying to the biggest currency manipulator in history. change his mind for whatever reason. and he thinks that china isn't a currency manipulator. at the same time, you still hope that he will get the tax reform through, which can provide stimulus for business.
>> tucker: i guess what bothered me about it -- i think probably your macro view on this is probably right, not on trump but on trade, prosperity, et cetera. your analysis seemed to ignore the nature of the distribution of the wealth. one of the reasons trump was elected is because a small group of people got really rich during the obama years to come up with a middle-class language. you are seeing the same phenomenon across western europe. as of something that politicians need to address otherwise you will get political chaos? is something you need to factor in? >> that's absolutely right. inequality is a massive problem. the loss of faith in american institutions has come along side a big increase in inequality. back in 1982 in the u.s., it's the same in the u.s. the average ceo executive pay was 30 times more than your average worker. it's now about 135 times your average worker. that is a major, major problem. trump's policies are only going to make inequality a lot worse.
it's pretty peculiar to see him giving tax giveaways for people who are handling over five and a half million dollars in their estates. >> tucker: wait a second. now, you will have rewriting history. i would agree with you that policy is inconsistent with what he ran on. but when you guys made your prediction, he wasn't saying anything like that. he wasn't saying that i will staff my white house with goldman sachs guys. he was making a pretty straight populist economic argument. and that was repugnant to you and to policymakers and elites across the globe. my question is, have you looked inside? maybe we should have paid more attention to the suffering of the metaclass then and this wouldn't have happened? >> obviously, -- we just want what is best for everyone. if you have populist policies, the reason they are called populist typically is because they sound really great but in reality they don't work at all. the reason why we are committed to free trade is because it makes good it's cheaper for everyone. the people who generally buy
imported goods are those on the lower income. if you therefore put up trade barriers, push up the cost for these imported goods and those who suffer the most are those who can least afford it. we actually have that in mind when we are opposing -- >> tucker: i have heard this argument for decades, and the argument that the middle class needs more brightly colored garbage from china -- he is as big a threat to the world as isis. you said that in your prediction. >> that's not entirely true. >> tucker: that it is why i am bringing it up. >> back to the global economy. we thought he was the biggest threat to the global economy from a terrorist attack. an extraordinarily gloomy reality that terrorist attacks are a fact of life. even if you look at the brussels attacks from the stock market went up. it is a peculiar country trend. but when you look at who was going to be the most powerful
man in the world, such a unique candidate, and he still is a unique president. then, you have to take that into account in terms of the global macro economic forecast. >> tucker: there is an internal contradiction. you guys are for markets, obviously. you believe it marketed to principals, markets are wise over the long run. but markets responded positively to the election of the guy you said would destroy the global economy. so, who is right? you are the markets? why would they do that? >> we are such beautiful fools. the dollar strengthened. but there was a certain amount -- remember, rational exuberance? we'll see how long it lasts. yesterday was a good example of a huge stock market fall for something that we had forecast. the trump presidency getting quite a lot of political chaos. that is something we are seeing snowballing over time. the stock market has absolutely outperformed. what we are a little curious as to how sustainable this is. a lot of it depends on getting through the agenda. he has not made any meaningful
outreach to the democrats, even though he is aware he needs to do it. >> tucker: i'm losing track of whether markets are rational or not. are they rational or not? >> they are rational -- they change every single day. >> tucker: [laughs] >> they move in line with the news, just as we all do. >> tucker: thanks a lot for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> tucker: president trump have already received more intelligence coverage then you can consume in your entire life. we are not daring you to try that. up next, we'll talk to a professor who says the whole story is a lie, a big lie. he'll explain why. the school musical
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who's the new guy? they call him the whisperer. the whisperer? why do they call him the whisperer? he talks to planes. he talks to planes. watch this. hey watson, what's avionics telling you? maintenance records and performance data suggest replacing capacitor c4. not bad. what's with the coffee maker? sorry. we are not on speaking terms. >> tucker: it took only a few decades of bad reporting with "the new york times" has finally admitted that the gender pay gap has nothing to do with sexism. you may have missed it but in a recent article, the reporter pointed out that what has actually been obvious for a long time, "the gender pay gap is largely because of motherhood."
of course, anyone who thought about it for a second already knew it. even in 2017, women are the ones who give birth to babies and they often take the lead in raising them for you doing that, though, takes focus away from a conventional career. so, many women quit or take flexible but lower paying jobs. there's nothing wrong with any of that. some people still believe that raising decent kids is more important than working at a law firm and is the right to think that. of course, it would have been nice for the times to show this kind of honesty during the eight years of president obama's terms when the bands to eliminate the sexism based pay gap were never ending. paper still seems to see women's lack of enthusiasm for global capitalism as a moral crisis, something that we need to fix immediately. the same article they had met the gap is simply caused by different choices, freely made. the article says "the long-term price theft government giving up economic productivity to have families and plots ways to reverse it, because nothing more and more hard and then adding to the sum total of globalism, even
your kids." that is the times position, anyway. it's time for the reality check. as has been noted, people will fall more easily for a big lie than a small one. victor davis hanson is a historian and a fellow at the hoover institution. he says that the entire russia story we have been talking about for months is just such a big lie created by the democratic party with the help of the media. victor davis hanson joins us tonight. professor, you are saying that this whole thing is just nonsense. is that what you are saying? >> i think you have to go to the origins and the causes and the methodology and the objectives. this whole thing started during the nomination process when the never trump people commissioned a dossier by retired british agent, the so-called christopher steele dossier that was pretty much ridiculous. then, it was passed on after trump got the nomination to the
clinton campaign. then, it was forgotten about. suddenly, when she did with nobody thought she would do and lost, and robbie moog's analytics and data didn't prove to be successful, and she didn't go to the blue wall states efficiently, then, the new narrative came. the russians must have done it by the wikileaks probe process and then the dossier that somehow got into the hands of the fbi director, whether he paid for it or not. i think senator grassley is investigating that. now, we have this idea that trump colluded and this dossier was leaked to media sources that it was pretty obscene, pretty outrageous. have things in it that could not have been true. where are we now? we have a director of national intelligence, james clapper, said it didn't exist. we have senators feinstein and grassley say that fbi director comey said there was not an ongoing investigation. it was very unlikely because donald trump, he didn't dismantle eastern european
missile defense. he didn't go to geneva and press a plastic red button. he didn't make fun of romney for saying russia was an existential enemy. he didn't have a hot mic exchange with a russian president saying that he would be more flexible with the russians after the election. that entire reset, appeasement of russia, came from the clinton-obama team, not from donald trump. now, it was very unlikely anyway because he ran all is a jacksonian who was going to beef up u.s. defenseman's and get tough with the rivals abroad. it wouldn't be necessarily logical that putin would want him to be president. yet, here we are. i think the real message that we are missing is that there was evidence that some people in the obama administration had a surveilled people either trump himself, or around trump. that information had either been reversed targeted, deliberately, to find information from or incidental. it didn't matter because the names were unmasked and then, they were leaked to pet her
partners. for the last six months, between the dossier and the surveilling, we have the leaks. special investigator mueller looks at the totality of the so-called russian collusion-surveillance story, will come to conclusions that we don't expect. >> tucker: how ironic would it be, though, if in the course of the investigation, these investigations go in directions that you can't predict? no one can. people got in trouble, because that happens with these things. and at the same time, we discover that at its core, the story was just a lie. there was nothing there. there was no collusion between putin and trump. but it still ended up really hurting or bringing down this administration. is that possible? >> yeah, i think it is. we have had a whole cadre of washington and new york reporters who have done nothing other than for six months, using all of their tools at their disposable, their genie is, experience, to prove that donald trump colluded with the russians. they can't find anything.
they haven't spent commits or attempt to look at who was unmasking individuals. and that come out from the house intelligence committee. but what we are seeing, i don't want to be too dramatic, but historically, a slow-motion coup. you have the nexus of celebrities, academics, the democratic and progressive parties, then, you have the media, and they feel that they can delegitimize a president with 1,000 next, none of them significant in themselves. but they coalesced to build a narrative that trump is an experience, that he is uncouth, he is crude, he is reckless. each day, the point is to drive his popularity down one half point, one point, until he can't function in congress because purple state congressional representatives don't want to take the risk to take initiatives. meanwhile, at the aca, the tax reform, his appointments, everybody agrees they have been excellent. there is trump, the message and
agenda, versus trump the demonized president. >> tucker: you got to wonder if the people who run the news organizations ever think to themselves, it's kind of where that my priorities alignment precisely with those of the democratic party? [laughs] may be that's corrupt? [laughs] >> i think the democratic wrapped is taking its cue from the media. when the media has a narrative, the use of profanity, the democratic party follows on course. they have been following the trump story because the media has been generated and at. >> tucker: professor, i love talking to people with great memories. and you have one in perspective. thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me, tucker. >> tucker: up next, sean hannity makes his return to the friend zone to talk about the former president of this company, roger ailes, who passed today. stay tuned.
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>> tucker: we invited one of our friends from fox onto the show. joining us tonight, sean hannity, who knew how mike needs no introduction, except to say that he knew our former bos. how would you some of the guy as big as roger? >> there is only been three people in my life that i have met that have this deeper dimenn in terms of the thought process. you know, i would often sit with him, and a time i would have a meeting, i don't care if it was on the phone or in his office, i would always take a pattern a paper because they knew i was going to get four or five great ideas that would make me seem much smarter than i am. he saw things differently. he would be able to cut to the chase, get rid of all the clutter, and, lo, tucker, i wouldn't be on with you tonight. i was a young, local radio host in atlanta with very little tv experience. took a big risk, gave me a shot, here i am, and he believed in me. and he did that for so many
other people. as a set in my statement today, i think he would see things and people that they didn't know existed in themselves and i can tell you, for my own personal experience, that was the case. i never thought i could do this. one other thing that he dated, tucker, which i think is pretty amazing, i was so bad. all you need to do is google hannity's first show. it is humiliating. you want to bring me down to earth and need a i cringe when i see it. he stuck with me. he changed my life so much for the better and so many others. >> tucker: he did that with people. he did stick with them. what did he tell you when he first hired you? >> i couldn't remember one thing. that's a great question. i remember one meeting, he warned everyone, they will probably have technical collectors, something's going to happen. but just a call. i remember he told everybody, smile, have a good time, it doesn't have to be perfect on day one. this is long ball. we want to change the media
landscape in the country. he emphasized fair and balanced. he wanted both sides. then, he pointed to me and alan and said, except for you to, you can do whatever the hell you guys want. >> tucker: and you did! [laughs] he just let us do our thing. one other great thing, we always work on a ratings pressure world, he never once called me and said, great ratings. he never once called me and said, what is wrong with your ratings, either. he knew there was an ebb and flow to the new cycle, ups and downs. that has kept me very centered. basically, you build it and you are calm, every night you do a great show. that is why people are watching it. every night, you do a great show, you work hard for your audience, you are in their viewership every night. >> tucker: that is really wise. he saw the big picture. he was a tough guy, too. not easily pushed around. >> listen, i am a better fighter today because i learned from hi him. when i first started, maybe -- i
remember there would be certain people who were working at the fox news channel, they get their first negative article, i.e. seiko google my name, it will come of hannity is evil, hannity is satan. and then when you read it, you will feel so much better. so many people have done that and follow that advice. it used to bother me come i can't even remember when. i don't care, tucker. i don't care what people tweet, right, say. and i enjoy the competitive back in the forth in life. >> tucker: for our viewers were wondering if you are being sincere, i work with you, and i can say he is not joking. [laughs] >> when i am tweeting come of my twitter wars am smiling. everyone thinks, twitter fight, and i am like, let's get in there. i believe in fighting for what we believe in. now, we have to fight as irredeemable deplorables. that is a fight that i will engage in until my last breath because they are trying to undermine that election. >> tucker: sean hannity, ladies and gentlemen.
>> i don't ever want to be in the enemy's own. >> tucker: [laughs] you never will be. we'll be right back. go ahead, spoil yourself. the es and es hybrid. experience amazing.
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lease the c300 sedan for $399 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. >> tucker: we've heard a lot about roger ailes on this channel today, he was a huge figure here into american life. if you like to hear more, i recommend looking up the remarkable attributes we've heard from brit hume and shepard smith. he captured so precisely, a lot of us got emotional watching them. i would add only one thing to what they said, he always rooted for the underdog. it's not common in our business with the success is the god most people worship. while others kissed up and kicked down, roger ailes always did the opposite. he was kinder to the cleaning crew than he was two presidential candidates, i saw that. he picked fights with someone his own size, if not bigger and he was always fearless. half my friends here washed out of somewhere else. roger saw something in them, took pity, and hire them. i know because it happened to me
train station. madison square garden is right on top of it. it's that kind of layered construction. the train station went through a huge reconstruction and manchester arena is no more than that years old. camera crews and civilians were out talking to eyewitnesss and media -- immediately after the blast, we want to bring you some of that. >> i said it was non -- balloon. who told you it was a balloon. >> staff, to stop us. >> how did you manage to get out? >> told us to be cabin and a few
you're reminded listening to the accidents of people who are still in the moment reacting to this, that manchester is in a unique part of the country. it has whales to the west, approximately, scotland to the north. it is part of the northern uk, an industrial city and proud of it. >> yeah, brian, i guess the equivalent of the u.s. would be the u.s. this is an old industrial type part of the uk, sort of, following disrepair for decades and since undergone a surgery. these are salt of the earth people, good -- big moment class revelation. a lot of new industry moving into that area as well. at this concert, as you mentioned, i think, this arena is massive.
it holds 21,000 people. it's the biggest arena in the uk and biggest in europe. you would have had people coming from all of the around to uk to go to this area. the third stop in her tour of just the uk. she had played some dates in other parts of europe. this was a big, big deal for these young people and sort of industrial and northern india. good whole some, you know, families headed out for a great night of entertainment for teenage girls, teenage boys. bombs and dad going with their kid and then, of course, this happened. we see a lot of this social media video showing just kind of a panic that happened after that explosion was heard. you know, a sold out concert and brian, a packed arena.
the final son had already been song and left the stage, one of the fans told us she had gone, the lights were on, people were heading for the exits when they heard this blast. one young woman who spoke to us they thought it was a small drop. >> they didn't realize the full extent of what was happening until they got out of that arena. you know, this seems on the outside now as we understand the blast did happen outside, according to an ree na statement, it happened at a public space. this seen is very much different from inside the concert hall. one man told local station here that he was there to pick up his wife and daughter and that he was fairly close to the glass that's thrown 30 feet and afterwards saw the aftermath. others talk about seeing fans
bloodied on their faces. we eve seen pictures of young people and adults walking around, walking wounded with damage around their knees, ripped to jeans, volunteer first responder told us that they've been treating shrapnel like injuries that's when we got the sense that this was something very sinister, that this was, potentially, an explosion. we have since learned, as you know, brian, multiple u.s. law enforcement sources telling nbc news they've been briefed by uk officials and saying this was -- appears to have been the work of a suicide bomber and based on forensic after evidence at the scene, brian, they believe they know who the bomber is. we don't have any ideas yet. we have a tore numbers. we haven't heard anything sense in doubt, the investigative work
is in full force at this very early saul ri. >> kelly, here with the scene from there and what it's been like this whole evening long as we've gone through the slow realization that this was, in fact, what we all feared it was and that is investigators are pointing to a single acting alone, that is, suicide bomber at one of the, potentially one of the main exits. we're joined in the staud yi by police commissioner bill. commissioner when you hear kelly report, again, sources of the investigating world i know who this is, i know what this is. what does it take for them to be able to say that, first and second what is our relationship for people who are just joining our coverage and talked about this a little bit earlier, what's our relationship with the uk back in forth? >> relationship with the uk
really seamless and i can speak from personal instruction. the intelligence services, the coordination, slab ration that has to be pretty significantly after 9/11. in terms to quickly identify individual those are on air and in policy. two thoughts there that one we'll let you be fact of how that technology is. you'll start to think that it may have had a suspect or suspects in line. they tend to match up very quickly because what they had going into the small scene. >> they had a stream of information available intelligence and police services before this event, that will be
part of the investigation of the days ahead. but we get better at this all the time. we'll have to pace these events. >> what are they saying, law enforcement, terrorist only has to get lucky once, but law enforcement have to be lucky every single time. >> thank you very much. >> our senior national security analyst and a former deputy national security adviser, four terrorism for president george w. bush. more on this intelligence sharing. we're not critiquing the finding that kelly was reporting from someone in your line of work that they have some degree of sernd, what's behind this and who this was and how can that be possible in such show amount of
time. >> i think bill has a right. i think the british authorities are incredibly good at their work. they're tracking a number of individuals of concern. this seems to suggest that this may be an individual that was on the radar screen, or at least that they had information about or bio me tricks and other available information. want to be very quick in these cases. they want to find out what they know, not only about this attack in particular, but they want to make sure that they understand what the support networks are around this individual, this attack. nothing else is a pace. nothing else is unforming. so i think there's going to be more information coming out understanding that this they're going to dig hard into who this individual is. his social ned work and any communication with other suspect
individual or even isis or al qaeda elements that may have been either training him, inspiring him or even directing him in this attack. there's much more to be learned. but the fact that british authorities think that they've identified this individual, u.s. authorities are tracking that as well. very significant sign and certainly a demonstrate of great capability to do this this quickly in the wake of such a horrific account. >> they really the art form of flooding the zone with cameras for digital imagery. when that happened, when that error broke and when they kind of debuted their system. it was people from the nypd who traveled to london, looked around. society debates constantly, as it should, the exchange of privacy for safety in a free society. but what are the rules governing
immature -- they've got six angles before this and let's assume, getting his face out there, would help for people wondering, do you -- have you seen this, does this ring a bell? >> well, it's a great point, brian. british authorities will use whatever authorities they have ability. their system allows them access to several advantage points, no doubt. they're going to be looking not only to what they can do to identify this individual at the point of the attack, but whether or not they can spot others who may have supported, dropped off or been a part of this particular and that. they'll be pouring over whatever footage they have available. to your point about privacy and security, you know, the british have been criticized for this coverage and i think for every open society, the debate, how
much security is enough. it's impossible that an open society to prevent these kind of attacks. there is the work of intelligence gathering, which is probably the longful here in the tent here, you try to understand who the suspects are, you try to understand where the threats are coming from to try to prevent this from happening to begin with. to the extent you have capabilities like footage in public arena like boyfriend you try to use that to maximum efficiency to ensure there aren't other attacks as well as to deter those who are trying to perpetrate these kind of attacks to begin with. it's an important question, because every society, including the united states have to grapple with, how much are we really for us to know beforehand, how much information is gathered and then how much surveillance are we allowing the public arena and public square to allow authorities to react in
an on fortunate attack. >> british authorities have come to a balance, that, obviously, a question for the u.s. still moving forward, how much security is enough, especially when terrorists are going after shortfallings. >> you can't blame them for being part of our coverage. we within the to welcome back jonathan. what we're covering political news. we just joined us looking for the 11th hour we will also be doing here tonight, there's plenty of that. first this breaking news from manchester, jeremy, former chief of staff and cia and defense. jeremy, i asked you earlier, what gets lit up and what gets turned on on a night like this given the close relationship between u.s. and u.s. airport. >> fingerprint from the individual who conducted the attack, i'll take that and run
it through the database and come up with a name. that name will go through a number of databases, e ours is called the data environment tied. it's run by the national terrorism center. the uk authorities, their internal service works with all the other partners in the world. they'll try to match that name with any other aspect of known terrorist network. i predict they'll use that name, identify an address, probably somewhere in the uk and you'll see armoured rain forest by the uk, police, apparent military s.w.a.t. teams, they'll remove and they'll introduce the home, z and i told you about that. >> reporter: they'll take evidence. they'll take fgs. they will look at electronic holdings of the intelligence,
remail it suspect, phone intercepts. within hours we'll have more information of -- sent to us this person is tied to another network. we'll talk about whether he acted alone, was directing. i've been looking through previous terrorist attacks here the last several months. if you look at truck attacks in sweden april 2017, truck attack in berlin. knife attacks the niece truck attack that killed 36. those were lone individuals operating a truck, handgun, a knife something they can get in their every day life. it's attacks that provide high powered explosives like the aware in turkey, the attack in brussels i kept telling them 32. it's gng to march. the attack in paris, of course, they killed 89 and over all paris in -- those individuals
are part of a network. they're part of a terrorist organization, inspired or directed by other people who want to do harm against civilians. i think it has me tonight based on the fact the use of explosives, based on the fact this individual went to a place where they knew it would be several hundred brilliant surveillances working on. this has to be the hypothesis tonight. grien, again, you will see all of these activities lead up to a targeting package and understand of entertainment, you'll see steel on target, iraq as a result of this, if in fact, it's connected to isis. >> jeremy bash thank you so much for being part of our coverage tonight. for those of you watching just when official word came in from manchester, we had been talking about a block bruce ter, which
we are minutes away from getting to ourselves. that's when our investigative producer had been on the air talking about presidential politics. and ken asked me, preston, the serena, getting that all you can about this investigation. what have you learned? >> all right. i just spoke to u.s. intelligence official. if you see a complex ball, does that suggest network, the answer is yes it very well mike. >> there are instances where isis is now walking through people taking bomb making instructions online. i think they're showing the ability to recruit, disturb individuals or take them to the steps to get to radicalization and get to operational ability on line. but in either scenario folks are telling me, we're likely to see a situation where encryption was used. that's going to raise questions,
there's a lot of something hear. there may have been a point where some of the terrorist use encryption to disguise their plotting. if it wasn't themselves or lie sis, from intelligent services. it's becoming running into debate in this country, you know, find a way to penetrate that. is there absolute right to have your conversations secure from government, surveillance or not and that's going to continue. >> i had one official say to me tonight, in the reassuring tone, that by this time tomorrow, the brits will know everything this person ever surged -- searched on google and when and what the result was. >> i think that may be -- ha they didn't know in time is whether this person was communicating either with
terrorist abroad. unfortunately they didn't know it in time to stop this attack. while we've been recording, united states command has announcing a raid into yemen that killed seven, aqpl 10, just another reminder that the u.s. at war against terrorist around the war. >> thank you. also unrelated to this incident or so we hope was the visual all day long until about dinner time east coast time when we realized our news day and our coverage was about to change because of breaking news out of manchester. but previously, all day long the news was about the president's trip to the middle east, a trip that started in saudi arabia and a trip that took him to israel today. the problem is, d -- the
problem, again, the news from back home in the u.s. that continues to follow this president and this administration, and, again, today it was the washington post that was out with another bomb shell report, quoting from the washington report headline tonight" trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against fbi collusion probe after comey revealed its existence. this report says, back in march, "trump made separate appeals to the director of national intelligence and to michael rogers director of national security agency. urging them to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election. the report goes on the new revelations and to a growing body of evidence that trump sought to coopt and then under
mine comey before he fired him, may not explain. >> connecticut senior also that statement added this point. >> it adds additional mounting powerful evidence of a cover up and obstruction of justice. what is really significant about it is, that it's cumulative on the issue of intent because donald trump donald trump's defendants said he didn't mean any harm when he questioned comey, he didn't mean what he said. this repeated attempt to stifle investigative work, stop the truth from coming out, eventually becomes evidence of intent. all of it mounting evidence of powerful undeniable dimensions and it goes to the issue of intent. >> again, that was part of the news that went into this day and earlier today we learn mike
flynn will invoke the fifth amendment in response to a subpoena requesting documents about his ties and contacts with rush shachlt we'll talk more about this a little later on. flynn was also accused in a letter today, elijah cumming of lying to security clearance investigators back in 2016 about being paid by russian media. those payments were for an appearance at a now well chronical dinner honoring vladimir putin in december of 2018 for our tea, russian television here. here with us tonight discuss it eli, "wall street journal," bost in globe columness, ethics chair at the pointer institute. and plit skoliticpolitico, mich. mike, you'll get the first question tonight what just
happened today? >> well, brian, it's another log on the fire. i assume we're talking about the latest reports -- particularly this washington post appreciate it. what it does is, you know, just build out as if we needed any more evidence that this president doesn't seem to respect or care about traditional boundaries that should limit him, that should restrict him from ongoing investigation at a minimum, i think the most charitable thing you can say when you read this story, he's a very wealthy man and use to picking up the phone and getting things done and new york city and in his real estate deals and he thinks that works to a better investigation that involves nefarious influence by a foreign power, but then you see, you know, senator blumenthal gets in front of it. you see it brian, somewhat married in that story. below the name, which describes
trump asking two senior intelligence officials to come out and essentially say he's not under investigation and clear him. other white house officials are not named in the story, apparently made inquiries without getting them to pressure comey now fired to drop his investigation into michael flynn. and there's really no way to explain that away, so in the first case, trump could be a rich guy who thinks hey, i have this guy wh is not more people come out and say something. it should not make those phone calls it's inappropriate. it's crossing into lanes you should not be in. the second part of it, brian, i think is very troubling the white house officials are leaning on people saying, go to comey, get him to drop the pregnancy. >> eli, finding new stories like
yours, we're allowed to get yours average. they have the conversation like he was carrying. if it is true that means donald trump as president was going around to people in government saying, either, make this go away or, tell the folks that i'm clear and tell folks everything is fine. >> yeah, it's another, whoa what trump now. we don't generally have a habit of printing things that are not true. they source these things. they have sources deep inside these intelligence agencies. you're starting to see a pattern with these stories documenting the same behavior over and over again. when they come back to the white house you saw it again today. there's no denial of the allegations in the story. today the white house said something like we're not going to talk about it because it's based on unnamed sources. before they were defending and trying to say i didn't doch this. the thing they were saying they
didn't do was yet to put pressure comey or that he pressured the new other intelligence officials. and then a lot of other newspaper and other outlets. there are a lot of sources across what donald trump i like to think of as the deep state, that's our government. that's the intelligence community. it's the community of people who are bound together by belief in and respect for the rule of law. this is an executive in the oval office, if it's someone who doesn't seem to have a respect for the rule of law, you can understand why there were so many damaging leaks and we probably haven't seen the end of it. >> he was not a traditional ceo, in that he didn't have a board to report to. it's been said that with great frequency today over and over again. i think here is a guy you have one way of doing things in his world.
it was the only world he knew. not only is the mindset of a good government type foreign to him, but he thought he could pull the leopards of waiting on them to see. is this really the learning curve someone from the business world now in the oval office. >> it's not the curve from anyone in the business world who might have wanted oval office. it certainly is that way for donald trump, a person who has never had to answer for anyone, p 0 years old and surrounded himself with culinary yemen and women, people who got things done for him. always look the other way on ethical things, legal things they sort of budget. you can't do that when you're in a system, when you're in a system of government and you have all of these checks and balances in federal bureaucracy. thousands and thousands of people who can be checked on the power itself.
this happened back in march, this around the same time -- it did stories, true. the same time he was sharing these things, the senior official committee was trying to end it. at the same time he's been president attack and his wires, the chair of the house intelligence devin nunes to go around and try to stand up that story and convince the media that the president might be on to something. all of this was happening when they thought he could manufacture their own truth. we hear the president is advising the legal team saying you have to be more judicious and discrete with your words you can't say things you have to be bound by the facts. he's never tried to do that and it may be too late, even if they make headway and it changes the behavior now. he may have already done too much and said too much. in terms of allowing people to
make a case. >> welcoming you back to the broadcast, i saved an interesting one for you, i'm going to take you back, it's been a long time, about a week to when we learned that the president had two russians in the oval office. there were no american journalists there, footnote, the russian news agency toss what is there. it was their photos that got sent around the world. we later learned that in the e val office, donald trump shared intelligence, code name intelligence with the visiting russians. it was whispered and further leaked that this was an intelligence partner that lead a lot of people to advise if it was israel that further we had, perhaps, endangered someone's deep cover among elements of isis overseas. that element was never confirmed by the white house. fast forward a whole wink unto
today. he's in april. he's -- and trump chooses, out of nowhere, to kind of silence the combined press corps so he could speak up and make a point. we'll air that and then you can talk about it on the other side. >> just so you understand, i never mentioned the word or the name israel. i never mentioned throughout the conversation. so you had to know the story. never mentioned the word israel. >> for the record none of us were saying he did. his national security adviser, general mcmaster came out, in fact, he was never told the source of that information, so he would not have paed along the sources of tt information. on this front what just happened? >> right. well the kri nolg here, it was the washington post that broke that incredible story about the
code word intelligence that donald trump shared with the russians. in the same conversation in which he called james comey and said fortunately i've fired him. i think many of us who cover national security and foreign policy immediately drump to the conclusion or had sources who made us believe that it was, in fact, israel, it was the original source that's why it was so sensitive and naming the city, it was so interest. fast forward the next day and the "new york times" had a separate story in which they said israel was the source of the intelligence, according to their sources the two things were not together, but by him responding to this reporter who shouted out to bb, are you yet comfortable, we felt compiled to say i never mentioned him. he's inadvertently confirming in the view that it was in fact israel that was the source.
you can see how the prime minister looked momentarily uncomfortable about the whole situation. everyone was kind of krinching, that was bt the only crib marriott maine. we've just come back from the middle east. they have not certified one. they put his hand up to his head and put it back as if, no, i meant to do that. so there have been a lot of things said that were foot and mouth moments. you know, in this middle east trip. >> a lot of the trip transpired over the weekend after we had signed off, midnight eastern, friday night right ununtil now. a lot of the imagery, it had been, i think, going well on a pass/fail basis. but then the statement on israel -- then the statement that, perhaps, they've been in the middle east yesterday but why traveling to israel were no
longer. so, you know, it was a low bar for trump to clear in saudi arabia, he basically had no not get caught saying something con feet and then he had to redisspeech lairty and he managed to do those things. by the way, that speech was temperate critic it was not the worse case scenario from the perspective when he wen in guns blazing saying he spent on -- it was a fairly established speech and i think people were saying, okay, this president on the world stage you might disagree with his policies, but he can, at least, sort of pick my numbers and do stage crap without causing any kind of big problems. today was a reminder that when donald trump is out with the mic and he's not completely scripted, the odds are pretty good he is going to say something that makes an unwelcome headline that is in
discrete that makes him look foolish. by the end, i will add that brian, you know, this trip is just starting. he's got a couple more stops. he'll be meeting with a lot more foreign leaders. he's going to g 7-meeting and goes to nato summit, that's the blt -- he's been rolling out this one, really trying to reboot and knowing that trump comes to them ready to give them a warmth huggy. when you -- a lot of unresolved issues and a lot of point, how much are other countries are spending. do they believe he's necessary at the last point, elephant in the room, that nato is summit. it was formed, to defend your russian aggression so to the extent trump has been running away from the russia story on this trip, he is running into africa story when he arrives to
meet with the nato officials. >> someone is going to drump the american president tomorrow morning local time in israel and ask for his response to what happened in manchester. and there, i suppose, right there in that moment would be a very stark choice of words. >> well, i suspect he may go back to the formulation that he was so comfortable with during the campaign, talking about radical islamic terrorism. the fakts he had been talking about it for a couple of hours, the british authority do believe it was probably a terrorist attack. i think, hopefully you'll be getting the say the correct thing. but i do think this goes back to wearing the larger problem of me not taking advice, many use to saying whatever he wants to or saying. it's the head of a company with no board as michael said. i think michael's explanation, bethe way, of why he says
whatever he wants, trying to tell the director of national intelligence to type down or come out and say i'm not the subject, it's a completely understandable explanation, but it's not a justification for that. by the same token he needs to be listening to advice of people who know better about governing things and he doesn't seem to be very good at taking that advice. he's use to doimg things his own way. eli, again, started in an entirely different direction, but we had this story about general flynn announcing his intention to take the fifth amendment. explain to our viewers, what prong of the investigation this is and if capital hill investigation can't result in any kind of charges, why would this be? >> well, this was the senate intelligence committee request for flynn to test above and
he'll be taking the fifth and refusing to do so. it was immediately bringing back to the news channels, to the coverage, all the clips, the times during the campaign when donald trump and his advisers opined about hillary clinton and her aides taking the fifth and saying doing so made it seem like they were guilty as heck. michael flynn was not feature, probably if he had a good story to tell. i think, you know, folks who are running these intelligence investigations on the hill and to the intelligence community which has its own investigation and now special counsel leading up to that investigation. there's not a lot of concern about the truth, eventually, getting out, about being able to find this stuff out, obviously, we've seen the amount across the government and i think with multiple investigations going on simultaneously, people work pretty good of getting to the fact. i think one way or another
you'll seem pretty coverage pa lent room. if you focus on the next several months of what actually happened, whether or not people like michael flynn will come warning. thank you all, it's been an eventful day and a sad evening, but the political news, the go political news really commended our attention tonight. we'll fit in a break in our coverage, again, we're covering these dual stories, the traveling white house today and all that means what the newspaper back here in the states and this terrible tragedy in the current terrorist attack in manchester uk this evening. we'll be right back. standby.
hey katy, let me show you how behind schedule we are. yeah. are those the pyrotechnics that are gonna startle me from a distance? yep. and my impractical wardrobe changes, those all set? not even close. oh, this is probably going to shine in your eyes at the worst possible time. perfect. we're looking at a real train wreck here, am i right? wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back with 1% when you buy, and 1% as you pay. the citi double cash card. double means double. with this level of intelligence... it's a supercomputer. with this grade of protection... it's a fortress. and with this standard of luxury... it's an oasis. the 2017 e-class. it's everything you need it to be... and more. lease the e300 for $569 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.
>> so many family members were together for tonight's concert, so many parents, for example, brought their teenage daughters. the crowd base for ariana grande, the concert tonight and manchester arena. i want to read you the way the associated press is putting in at this hour, dateline manchester england ap, a highly anticipated night for ariana grande fans ended in blood and terror after an explosion tore through the foyer, at least is the concert goers were killed, about a others were injured on monday night. all evening long we've been getting contributions from jonathan deets who is part of our investigative reporting team here in new york. bring us up to date, especially for viewers who may just be learning about this story or looking for a late live update. >> you know, the very latest we
have, all indications, at least at that arena, it was a lone attacker, likely a suicide bomber with some sort of backpack bomb filled with nails and bolts to inflict maximum damage as well as the stampede that caused other injuries. a lone attacker outside the arena along the check points of crowds going in. it was as the crowd was filing out that this explosion took place causing the panic. the question, now, who is this suspect. we've been told from law enforcement officials here, that they had tentative i.d. of the possible suicide bomber and that they're working very hard to confirm that and track that and that's important because they want to know was he a lone actor or was he part of any part of a terror cell. britain has been faced with threats, we saw the incident
outside west minister. there have been more than a dozen pods there last year. there are hundreds of extremist inside that country that intelligence agencies are trying to track and monitor. some had traveled to syria, isis controlled territory in syria and returned so there's that whole picture of, again, the question was this a lone actor or part of a cell. the brits are clamping down because now the investigation is very much underway as they try to track and see did this bombing have any help, was he part of any cell, how did he pull this off without getting caught. >> jonathan, initially, we heard about the toll, especially of the injured. but then sadly the dead and there were people theorizing that maybe this had been a stampede, maybe some of the deaths came that way. i was loosely trying to explain to folks who may be familiar
with new york, folks all across the country, who have had the pleasure -- the experience of being to the station and madison square garden, which sits right on top of it. it's not unlike the manchester arena, they're one on top of the other using the air rights of the train station. there are levels between trains, the box office and the venue itself. >> and thousands of people all moving in that direction to the exits to try to get to that transportation and all of a sudden the explosion takes place, so all the people start running the other way causing terrible confusion. you and i have seen the videos at kennedy airport when erroneous scare, airport shutdown if you're in a similar scare in los angeles recently where panic. this one described as a major
chest pounding thud, in terms of the explosion that took place around the crowd of people and ensuing panic. i think we saw some video, people jumping over the sides of the stands to get to the alleyways to try to make their exits just sheer panic. right now it's 50 injured, 19 dead. we're waiting to hear more about the extent of the injuries of those people we've seen in cases like this. you would expect that several to be in critical condition, at this time. we'll await to hear from the hospital authorities on the status of those injuries, some officials caution us, perhaps, expect to see the toll of casualties arise in the hours ahead. >> in the hours ahead, i expect we'll get new image what we've been forced to repeat and repeat and repeat. thank you so much for contributing to our reporting. i want to bring in our senior
national security analyst. and i'm going to ask you an oddly political question and it's this, you served on the national security staff of president bush 43. if this president is getting a proper briefing tomorrow morning local time in israel, what do you counsel a president to say when he's asked about a strongly suspected terrorist attack over night in the uk? >> well, i think the first thing the president is going to want to know is what do we know about the attack itself, about the perpetrator. are there any american citizens who have been suffered as a result of the attack, either killed or injured. are we providing support to our british colleagues, to the full force and weight of our capabilities. do we know if anything ties this attack to other threats that we may be concerned about and are
there preventative measures we should be taking in concert with state and local authorities to include forces like nypd and lapd to ensure that there is no potential, that there is an attack in the u.s. that's either a copy cat and maybe something that's attached. those are things that the president is going want to know. i was in the white house on the 7/7 attack in 2005. president bush was in scotland for the g 8 meetings at that point. we went immediately into briefing mode. he knew more, he was on the ground. he was in prime minister blair at the time. we were clearly going through the whole assortment of issues and concerns about what we knew about the attack in london at the time and what we were doing to not only help our british colleagues, but also to secure the u.s. in the eventuality that
there was some connection of what was happening in london and what was potentially happening in the u.s. the president is going to be briefed based on what we know. it sounds like the british are getting down to some great details in terms of who the perpetrator is. there's no doubt in the coming hours going to find out more about his identity, his whereabouts, his communications, his network, those are things that the brit irn will share, no doubt, with the u.s. and those things will be brief toded to t president. >> since this is no ordinary time and since this is a president like no other, what do you tell him not to say, rather, based on regional sensitivities, based on what we may not know, based on, it's just really smart not to say this? >> well, i think there will be three principles you want to convey to the president, first is, you know, this is a fog of war, the initial stages of
anything is going to be incomplete information and may actually be wrong information, you don't want to be the lead fact witness on what's happening. we'll continue to brief and update you. but don't get too far in front of your ski tips here in front of the information because it could be wrong. this is a british-led investigation. this is a british issue first and foremost you don't want to get out in front of the british. let the british take the lead and we will follow. if they want us to share information, we need to share information, we can go back and ask them. let's be careful with respect to that. third, i think if there's anything sensitive conveyed, anything that leads to the potential that this is involving isis, al qaeda, other networks you want to make sure that the president knows where those areas of sensitivity are and you want to make sure he is aware that he probably shouldn't be talking openly to others or publicly about some of those
threats. it could be important to unraveling what could be a support network to this attack. >> and so i would start with those first principles, i would be very open with the president and hopefully the president is getting his feet under him in terms of how to handle these kind of briefings and this kind of sensitive information. >> now, that was an answer, useful information. as always, thank you, we have just a few minutes remaining in this hour's coverage. ken delaney of nbc news joins us back here in the studio. ken, as americans go to sleep, as daybreaks in the uk, we're going to know so much more by the time we all get up in the morning. >> it sure looks that way, brian. if they have a name, as you said, they'll know a lot about him. who he was communicating with, everybody bit bit if there's a network, you may see some over night raids and armoured vehicles coming to the door, if it's not a network, we may be
learning new details about who he is. i want to bring a point about president trump, he made a remarkable statement, speech in saudi arabia. it was a rhetoric return. he did not use the kind of phrases that he's used during the campaign, he said that islam hates us. it's going to be an interesting test whether he can hue to this new line that's coming out hr mcmaster and james mattis or whether we'll see the old donald trump lashing out. >> sean henry, we have 35 seconds to play with, do you rush out the imagery, which you know they'll have of this bomber to help garner more information? >> i think that certainly they'll do anything they can to identify any potential coconspirators if they know who this person is, they may be following him and to the extent they can identify others who
might be kplcomlicit with him. >> that's going to conclude this hour's coverage, complicated what is normally the 11th hour, we were unable to cover pure politics because of this tragedy from manchester. our coverage will continue. microsoft and its partners are using smart traps to capture mosquitoes and sequence their dna to fight disease. there are over 100 million pieces of dna in every sample. with the microsoft cloud, we can analyze the data faster than ever before. if we can detect new viruses before they spread, we may someday prevent outbreaks before they begin.
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going on. but tonight i actually showed up with something planned to say. >> oh, okay. >> and you ruined it. because i just listened again. rachel. >> bless our hearts and other parts. >> all right. but -- [ laughter ] i didn't know i could get you to say that again. >> i'm regretting it immediately. >> okay. i'm going to try to say the thing i planned to say. >> okay. >> and what i planned to say is wouldn't it be nice if it was just completely totally absolutely impossible to suspect that vladimir putin orchestrated what happened in syria this week so that his friend in the white house could have a big night with missiles and all of the praise he has picked up over the last 24 hours?
wouldn't it be so nice if you couldn't even in your wildest dreams imagine a scenario like that? >> wouldn't it be great if we could go back to "wag the dog" being a sitcom plot, you know. >> exactly. and i don't know what it is. is it a 2% chance? is it a 50% chance? i don't know. but i don't think it's a zero percent chance. and it used to be with every other president prior to donald trump. >> and the question of how we will ever find out whether or not that's ever true is intertwined with the ongoing intelligence operation of this president's campaign in terms of whether or not he colluded with russia. maybe eventually we'll get an answer to that from jim comey. >> we will wait. thanks, rachel. well, when bill clinton fired missiles during his presidency, republicans questioned that they questioned whether that was to distract attention from the monica lewinsky scandal, and that was a legitimate question.
you couldn't possibly get through covering that story without having that question come up. because the president was deeply involved in the scandal. and the missiles changed the subject as the missiles always do. missiles always change the subject. and so tonight we have some questions about the motivations of everyone involved. in what has happened inside syria. >> the united states took a very measured step last night. we are prepared to do more. >> she is clearly telegraphing a deeper involvement in syria, which again, several days ago was not a key priority for the trump administration. -- the strikes on syria? >> thank you very much. >> i'm dentist trustful of how quickly he switched. i don't know what his motivations were. >> it is frankly not helpful to launch a small scale attack and
to continue a policy of denying exit from syria to the millions of children and parents. >> i think the president owes it to the american people to come to congress and present a plan. >> this is not one of the vital u.s. national security interests. north korea. iranian nukes. >> i believe lots of very potentially bad problems will be going away. >> i think frankly, if there is a danger right now, it would be that the u.s. is expressing too much confidence. >> there is a reason it's been hard to figure this out. it is very complicated. and there are millions of people suffering in the meanwhile. >> it's perfect. just perfect. i wish it wasn't. if vladimir putin, if, if, if vladimir putin masterminded the last week in syria, he has gotten everything he could have asked for.
vladimir putin was essentially the man in charge of making sure that syria got rid of all of its chemical weapons under a deal with the obama administration. so it makes perfect sense to question whether president bashar al assad would have checked with his most important patron, vladimir putin, before using chemical weapons that vladimir putin was supposed to have helped get rid of. it would be terribly embarrassing to vladimir putin if president assad had exposed vladimir putin as having completely failed to get rid of those chemical weapons. you wouldn't want to be bashar al assad in a conversation with vladimir putin after that. unless you had a conversation with him before that. unless vladimir putin said i have an idea. go ahead. do a small chemical attack. nothing -- nothing like the big ones you've done in the past. just big enough to attract media attention so that my friend in the white house will see it on tv. and then donald trump can fire
some missiles at syria that will do no real damage, and then the american news media will change the subject from russian influence in the trump campaign and the trump transition and the trump white house. it's perfect. it doesn't just change the subject. for most of the news media, it changes the conventional wisdom about the dynamic between vladimir putin and donald trump. president trump has finally dared to do something that vladimir putin doesn't like. it changes everything. as long as you never, never question whether vladimir putin wanted all of this to happen this week. and when you question that and you look at what has a happened, it's always worth remembering that if vladimir putin really does have ways known or unknown to donald trump to influence donald trump, then every day that is a good day for president
trump is a good day for president putin. now not one word that i've just said could possibly have been said about any president prior to donald trump. >> in syria, you could be absolutely sure that president assad and president putin did not do that in order to help the image of the president of the united states. that, that is the world that donald trump has given us. that is the range of possibility donald trump has given us. you will hear the counter to the possible scenario that i have just outlined. but what you won't hear is proof that that scenario that i have just outlined is impossible. because with the presidency of donald trump has shown is that
with donald trump anything is possible. you have heard in the last 25 hours pundits on television reaching for the momentous, as they always do, reaching for the line that for better or worse will get your attention. and so you have heard the profound pronouncement that last night donald trump became president of the united states. you should all be used to that by now. that whenever donald trump does something routine, something that most presidents would have done, pundits will rush to the microphone to marvel at how presidential the president has become. and they will all, within a matter of days be embarrassed by the least presidential person ever to occupy the white house. we went through this cycle before when the president gave an address to congress and read every word in his teleprompter. after which he was instantly declared to have just become
president of the united states. and four days after they he tweeted "terrible. just found out that obama had my wires tapped in trump tower just before the victory. nothing found. this is mccarthyism." and so now we now await that next round of embarrassment for pundits. and we look back on the days when we could be absolutely certain. and i mean 100% certain that vladimir putin did not conspire to kill people as a way of helping the image of the president of the united states. joining us now, david corn, the washington bureau chief for mother jones and msnbc political analyst rick wilson, republican strategist and contributor to the daily beast. also with us indira lakshmanan. indira, i raise this and i raise
it without assigning a statistical probability to it. i don't know what it is. i just know that it's not zero, and it should be zero. it has been zero with every previous president. but when you look at the way the events have unfolded this week, donald trump could not have asked for a better end of the week for his presidency as he sees it. >> well, lawrence, this is of course the problem with credibility. that when any white house or any politician has a problem with telling the truth, or is caught in repeated lies, then of course the public is going to have trouble believing them. and that's why the scenario that you spun while i don't abide by it necessarily, or don't put credence in it, nobody can say that it is untrue. we have no way of disproving it. and the fact that anyone would think it at all possible is because we have reason to doubt because so many crazy things have happened. what i will say is that he did these air strikes having alerted the russians to it.
you know, they call it deconflicting. it's certainly known that the russians who are backing assad would have alerted the syrians to this and allowed the syrians to get out of place before these airstrikes happened. so while you can on the one hand say yes, president trump did send a strong message. at the same time it's a message where the consequences for the russians and the syrians were reduced. that's for sure. >> yeah, and david corn, they used weapons that won't harm the runways of that airfield. they know exactly how much they're limiting the damage to the airfield. you could go on and on about it. but if vladimir putin wants the trump presidency to succeed so that he can manipulate the trump presidency, vladimir putin is going to have to find ways to help him out. >> well, yes. and perhaps there is talk about working on the sanctions if the russians don't overreact. but the word i'm thinking about
tonight, lawrence, begins with f. that's feckless. because you know if obama had done anything like this, a minimum impact launch with telling the russian, and it's a good thing you tell the russians first so it doesn't escalate. >> yep. >> and the next day, as was reported today, the syrians are back using the same air base to launch strikes against civilian targets and rebels, that the republicans on the right would be calling obama feckless. their favorite word for him. this didn't really matter, didn't really do anything, didn't really signal much. so i do think while a lot of pundits as you noted went overboard last night and called him presidential, there is a lot to settle about this one episode. and i don't think, you know, a few days from now, a week or two from now, it may not look as glorious and thus as smart inspired by putin as it might look last night and this morning. >> let's listen to what nikki
haley said today at the united nations. >> it could be that russia is knowingly allowing chemical weapons to remain in syria. it could be that russia has been incompetent in its efforts to remove the chemical weapons. or it could be that the assad regime is playing the russians for fools. the world is waiting for russia to reconsider its misplaced alliance with bashar assad. the united states will no longer wait for assad to use chemical weapons without any consequences. those days are over. >> and rick wilson, it could also be that vladimir putin was complicit and aware of this chemical weapons attack. >> look, vladimir putin is a former intelligence officer, a classic sort of russian czechist. and this is a guy who stacks bodies like cord wood in his own country to suit his political ends. i put zero past vladimir putin
in this sort of thing. and the fact of the matter is there are the emotional reaction by donald trump to this week to set off a one and done attack that was supposed to be a signal. i think people are way overinterpreting the consequences of this in the short and long-term. i don't think this means anything to putin. i think he is laughing all the way to the bank on this. he doesn't care that trump got a little credit for it. he likes that, i think. and it doesn't do anything to change the actual behavior of the assad regime. and it doesn't dismiss the russian clients status of syria to russia. i don't think it moved the ball at all. it let president bang bang whoosh whoosh get to turn the key and watch the pretty rockets go. but i don't think it did anything beyond that. >> and indira, if there is no real russian response beyond vladimir putin's mandatory
statement today saying it was an act of aggression, might not donald trump in the trump white house be grateful that there was no larger response from russia in this? and could that then mean hands off, russia, in syria? >> sure. trump does not want the escalate this into a problem between the united states and russia. but i think the bottom line here is we have to look at the broader question of all of this, which is what is trump's actual policy in syria. and in my column in today's paper, what i wrote about is it's very hard to send a message if you don't have a message to send. and donald trump's policy to syria has been oppositeville. basically, four years ago when there was the first chemical weapons attack he sent out this tweet storm to president obama in which he said don't strike. don't strike assad. don't do this. there is going to be a disaster. there is no percentage in it for the united states. don't do it. now he does the opposite.
it seems the trump doctrine is do the opposite of what obama would do. in fact, fewer people were killed in this chemical weapons attack than the last one four years ago. so i think the question is just a few days ago, his people, nikki haley and rex tillerson were saying assad can stay in power. and now they're saying assad has to leave. so what is their actual policy beyond 59 air strikes? what's the next move? it's got to be sanctions. it's got to be diplomacy. at the end of the day wars don't end with a bunch of airstrikes. wars end with diplomacy. so they have to have a plan b. and i don't think they have thought this through. a few days ago they were going to let assad stay in power. now they're suddenly doing airstrikes. they need to think through what is the next plan they're going to do. i'll say very quickly, on my flight from washington to boston tonight, both senator markey and senator elizabeth warren were on the same flight. i spoke to both of them and asked them what do ow think? what next? and both of them were very clear that they think the president has to come to congress if he is going to do anything beyond this in terms of an authorization for
more military force. so the president says he is ready to do more. i think he is going to find a congress that is resistant to letting him do more without coming and first asking for permission. >> i'm reserving my seton friday night washington to boston flight next friday night. that's the place to be. >> it was good one. >> and david corn, the possibility here that no one in the administration has a hint of a policy. rex tillerson if you look what he is saying days ago had no hint of a policy. suddenly now he is supposed to be saying to the russians this is what we need in syria. this is someone who hadn't given it a thought prior to tuesday. >> well, this is war by impulse. donald trump had a policy, so to speak, for a couple years now, don't do anything. then he changed his mind on the basis of a graphic, gruesome attack. but one that wasn't much different from what we've seen in the past. as indira just pointed out,
there is no strategy beyond the attack. rex tillerson is due to see putin soon. what is he going to say? what is the policy here? what is the policy about any other region? what is the policy in terms of iraq and iran? we just don't have any because ultimately, it's not about policy for donald trump. it's about himself. >> go ahead, rick. >> you know, david is right. this is policy by impulse. and what you saw last night was an action, not a policy. >> yeah. >> this was a moment where john mccain and marco rubio and lindsey graham and everybody else who has been out there for ages saying we've got to have a cohesive, coherent policy against the assad regime, to not only to defeat isis, for one moment donald trump did something in that lane. he is impulsive. he has the attention span of a gnat on meth. this is a guy with zero ability to focus.
by tomorrow we could be back to crazy tweet town. and i don't think he has ever thought it through. i think there are competing strains. mcmaster, mattis, and to my understanding now, a little bit even rex tillerson, one of the more nuanced thing. bannon wants to keep assad in power so he can wage his war against the brown people. and this is an administration that is riven by all these different strains and different competing schools of thought. and i think trump literally, i think david's exactly right. he saw some terrible pictures and said turn the key, launch the missiles. i don't think this is considered in any way. >> rick wilson gets the last word in this segment. rick wilson and indira lakshmanan. what do you think? i think i know who i'm betting on.
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i think that one thing that vladimir putin understands, and that's power. >> do you expect this president to change his verbiage on vladimir putin? >> i hope so. and i think that he is beginning to obviously have a significant shift there. dear predictable, there's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something...
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be murdered in chemical attacks. >> pentagon officials are now investigating russia's involvement in the chemical attack. president putin's spokesman says friday that the missile strikes significantly damaged russian-american relations, saying president putin considers the u.s. strikes against syria an aggression against a sovereign country, violating the norms of international law. next week scheduled to have his first face-to-face meeting with putin when rex tillerson travels to syria. rex tillerson said clearly russia has failed in its responsibility to deliver on that commitment from 2013. so either russia has been complicit or russia has been simply incompetent in its ability to deliver on its end of that agreement. joining us now tom nichols, foreign policy expert who is a professor at the u.s. naval war college and the author of "the death of expertise." and from moscow david flipof,
washington bureau chief for "the washington post." what do you suppose is the likelihood that president assad who have launched a chemical attack without vladimir putin's knowledge or approval? >> well, there is always the theory that president assad doesn't want any peace agreement. he wants to win the war outright. president putin has been trying to broker a peace deal that brings in turkey and iran because it makes russia have a higher profile. from that point of view, what assad saw was a complete embarrassment to putin and it puts putin in a horrible spot. now he is the guy backing the pariah. now assad being the guy who he is, the pariah pulling this off and putin being as shocked as anybody. do i back that guy or stand down as my position as the regional peace broker? it's terrible for putin. >> and what would be in that scenario, what would be putin's choice?
>> well, he's just said we're going to turn off the line of communication that prevents air front indications between russia and u.s. aircraft. so there is that route, which how do we know that that ends up, you know, with somebody not shooting somebody down. or there is the route of next week when secretary of state tillerson comes in saying we've got to back off of assad and back off our support, come to some sort of agreement with the international community and condemn this. i don't know. everything we've ever talked about with putin and trump is what is going to happen when there is a military confrontation between these two disrupters in chief. and we're about to find that out. it seems to me it's hard for putin to back way from his guy at this point. >> tom nichols, vladimir putin is assad's most important sponsor, without putin there is no future for assad. putin has guaranteed the removal of chemical weapons. then assad used his chemical
weapons. would he use those chemical weapon, given all of that and given putin's direct responsibility on those chemical weapons. would he have used those without checking with vladimir putin first and saying i have this in mind? >> it's quite possible. i mean, the russian military in syria can't keep tabs on bashar assad all day long. assad runs his own country and he runs his own military. this is not -- he doesn't have to go all the way to the kremlin for permission to do be a things. as david just said, he has now put putin in a terrible position. putin is a mafia guy. he is a mob boss. and one of his underlings just made him look really bad. putin may have decide at least this once because his guy did this one thing against the boss's interest that he's got to take a beating but o. but maybe not repeated beatings which is why putin may have
decided to not to turn off the deconfliction channel. >> act of aggression, international law, it didn't sound like there was any really powerful language in that. >> exactly. it's as much as anyone could have said without actually offering anything aggressive and without actually threatening to do anything. even turning off that line, that deconflicting line, it doesn't amount to aggression. it's only aggression if you decide to shoot things down. let's not forget, there is another player in here. assad is not alone with russia. it's got iran. iran is assad's ally, and iran really wants to win that war and doesn't want other people involved in it either. so one of the things that putin is thinking about, hey, i had this big deal with iran and turkey. what is going on here? i got to be in charge of that. so when putin lashes out and all his people lash out, tune that out and look at it. what exactly is he doing that he wasn't doing yesterday? and there is not that much. >> yeah. tom nichols, to that point, what
is vladimir putin's next move in this situation? >> well, he has to decide just how much trouble assad is worth. in a sense he is backed into a corner. he can't leave him -- he can't leave assad out in the cold now that the americans have struck him. but he's got a troublesome client, and a client who clearly has an interest in this different from russia's who has other friends like iran. and so i think the really interesting question about what develops next is yes, the trump-putin relationship is going to be recognize the see what happens next. but also the putin-assad relationship. because assad just gave him a lot more of a headache than putin needed, and really that he probably thinks that assad merit. >> and david, the trump administration tonight is getting out the word that this is a one-time event. they have no plans for any further actions involving syria. that's the breaking news actually that is coming in while we've been speaking, that senators who have been briefed on the administration's plans have just revealed that the
administration, the trump administration has no follow-up planned for this at all. so when vladimir putin looks at that and says they coordinated with us ahead of time so that we could get everybody out of any danger at that airfield. they made sure they didn't destroy the airfield. they were in effect as gentle as they could be with a missile strike. and vladimir putin gets the word tonight that that's it. that's the end. donald trump is finished. how does putin react to that? >> well, you know, there is a possibility that putin was never going to back downey way because he is vladimir putin. but letting them know about the rockets was part of the procedure they would have had with the deconflicting line. and it also, by the way, saved putin from the possible embarrassment that let's say they try to shoot down 59 tomahawks and they can't do it. those systems wouldn't have been able to take out all those missiles. you would have had a situation there where everybody is firing at each other and it would have looked really bad for everyone. but i see where you're going
with this. there is definitely a possibility that the same way putin really didn't say anything aggressive today, it's also true that that gesture really didn't do a whole lot of damage. it's two actors there not really doing a whole lot while making it look really, really, you know, you know, striking. so what's really up is what are we going to see next week when secretary of state tillerson comes. how are they going to be talking to each other? are they talking about solving a problem? are they talking about deconflicting? are they talking about the third world war? i think it's none of those things. how with committee move forward and sell everybody on the idea. >> david filipov, thank you very much for joining us from moscow tonight. and tom nichols, thank you for joining us. really appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. coming up, what next in syria. that's the question we just got the word, the breaking news tonight that the trump administration has zero plans for a next step in syria. and the war inside the trump
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administration's plans, senators say they believe that the trump administration now has no other actions planned for syria. here is what the secretary of state said earlier today. >> we will monitor syria's response to that strike in terms of whether they attack our own forces or coalition forces, or whether we detect that they are considering or mobilizing to undertake additional chemical weapons attacks. and i'd say at this point the future will be guided by how we see their reaction. >> joining us now phyllis bennis, a fellow with the institute for policy studies. phyllis, adulthood is that ability to prior to taking an action, asking yourself the question, and what happens after that? and we are now at the stage that of course we're hoping that the trump administration would have been at before they took their action. but as you see it, what happens next?
>> i think one of the biggest problems, lawrence, no one in the white house knows what comes next because this military attack yesterday has no connection to an actual strategy to end the war in syria. what we're seeing is a reaction, a spontaneous reaction. it seems to have come from something donald trump was watching on television. we used to talk, you know, about the fox factor, when a lot of people would be watching television and would be motived for some good reasons to say we must do something. and too often the something was equated with something military. and if it wasn't military, it didn't count. and now we're seeing that as if trump has his own fox factor all by himself, or a twitter factor where he sees something and he turns and says we've got to do something. send the marines. send the bombers. there is no strategy. there is no understanding of how this could make things dramatically worse for precisely those civilians in syria that trump says that he is so
concerned about. the same ones that is slamming the door of our country in their face are the same babies that he says he now wants to go to war to protect. there is this -- it's not only hypocrisy, it's an enormous level of confusion. and it's all based on the idea that there is no strategy. this is still, it seems, a president who believes he can somehow win this war. i don't think he could even identify the majority of the forces that are fighting in the war in syria, because as we know, the war in syria is not one war. by my last count, it's about 11 separate wars that are regional war, that are global war, that are sectarian wars, all being fought to the last syrian. and it's the syrians that are doing the dying. in the war between the turkey and the kurds, it's the syrians that are dying. in the war between syria and iran, it's the syrians who are
doing the dying. in the slightly warmer war between the united states and russia, it's syrians who are doing the dying. so this is what we have to sort of get a grasp of. and what's very clear is that no one in the white house seems to understand it. >> i want to just review for a moment why president obama did not take the same action. and in his extensive interview with jeffrey goldberg, the atlantic, when he was explaining his thinking on syria, his thought about this kind of strike was, what he feared about it was yes, we could do it. easy to do this. and it would be perceived within a very short period of time, if not immediately as a weak response in the region, and that a weak response with no follow-up makes the united states look powerless. it's almost -- what president obama feared was it would be an open declaration of powerlessness to do only this. >> in fact, this kind of a strike is an act of war, whether it's perceived one way or
another or not. the problem is that whole analysis by president obama, whatever the analysis was of president trump and those around him, it leaves out the people of syria. it leaves out the people who are affected by this. it assumes that the u.s. can move in militarily, and that will somehow transform the situation. despite the fact that we know and president obama repeated this over and over again, there is no military solution. that means there has to be a willingness to say there isn't an instant solution that looks dramatic and beautiful as one of your commentators last night was repeating several times, which was completely inappropriate, saying that the bombing trails are somehow beautiful. those bombing trails hold the risk of killing people. and they are violent acts. and to say that we are going to send this as a message without strategy to end this war.
the real reason president obama did not go forward is there was no political support for it. first the brits said we would not back it. it was turned over to congress. massive uprising in this wasn't where offices of congress were saying they were getting calls, 600, 700 to 1 against going to war in syria. now things are very different in 2017 than they were four years ago. in 2013 at the time of the earlier crisis around chemical weapons, there was a sense that we could -- that we could do this militarily. now i think what we're seeing is this does not change the considerations. it is not going to end the war. we need diplomacy, not war. >> phyllis bennis, thank you for joining us tonight. i really brought it. >> thank you. coming up, the war inside the white house between steve bannon and jared kushner whom. do you think who do you think is going to win
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mr. chaos, president trump, is trying to diffuse the chaos in the trump white house. according to new reports, according to politico, quote, steve bannon and jared kushner had a bury the hatchet meeting officiated by president donald trump after arriving at that hotel in florida this week. the sit-down, which was confirmed by two white house officials was an attempt to smooth over tensions between the two men. and "the new york times" reports that the president told steve bannon and reince priebus on thursday to, quote, work this out. how is that for the wisdom of solomon, figuring out exactly how to solve this. work this out. axios reported president trump is considering a broad shake-up that could include the replacement of white house chief of staff reince priebus and the departure of chief strategist steve bannon. the white house called that
report completely false. so it must be completely false. but according to nbc's katy tur, a source close to bannon says things are very bad for him in the white house right now. allies are telling him to lay low. and wait out the storm. you can't wait out the storm if the storm is the president's son-in-law. jonathan swann of axios has spoken with the associates of steve bannon this week. he will join us, along with david corn, next. e to talk abou. but then i realized there was. so, i finally broke the silence with my doctor about what i was experiencing. he said humira is for people like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers,
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and about medicines you take. movantik may interact with them causing side effects. why hold it in? have your movantik moment. talk to your doctor about opioid-induced constipation. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. are you shaking things up --? >> i think we have shaken them up. i think we've had some of the most successful 13 weeks in the history of the president. if you look at all we've done, i think we've had a tremendous success, and we've just begun. >> shakeup in the white house. joining us now, jonathan swan, national political reporter for axios. and back with us, david corn.
so an orthodox jew and a anti-semite walk into the white house. jonathan swan, what could possibly go wrong? steve bannon, i just want to clarify, his wife in divorce papers under oath said that steve bannon did not want his daughters in los angeles going to a school because it had too many kids there like jared kushner's kids. they include orthodox jus and jewish people who never heard him say anything remotely anti-sem ittic. i think that's a non-issue.
they are both stylistic and they go to policy. kushner has grown frustrated with banno's burn the whole showdown attitude. he also finds his policy views particularly his economic nationalism and some of his views, you know, in terms of immigration, too extreme and jared wants to moderate the president in his policy views. it created a schizm between the two of them. steve bannon believe has the new yorkers in the white house which also includes gary cohen, trump's top economic adviser, who bannon personally despises leading him away from his voters towards sort of squishy conventional wall street democrat kind of philosophy. >> david corn, "new york times" reporting that in an argument, steve bannon with jared kushner,
jared kushner said to -- sorry. steve bannon said to jared kushner, here's the reason there is no middle ground. you're a democrat. there he is accusing jared kushner of the worst thing he could possibly be other than jewish in steve bannon's mind, a democrat. >> well, i want to know if jared kushner returned the favor and said you know you said you were running a platform for the all the right which is part of a conservative movement made up of white nationalists. are you a racist? are you a white nationalist? they can go back and forth. i think the real problem is not kushner, bannon, reince priebus, kellyanne conway. it's not anyone. it's donald trump. they are trolling about because at the core of the white house there is no core. donald trump has gone back and
forth on many key policies. health care, tax reform, abortion, middle east, you know military action. because he doesn't give strong directions about ideas because he doesn't have is a lot of ideas and because it's never about his ideas, it's just about him, he leads -- you know, it leads to this sort of battleground where anybody who gets him on the right day or shows him the right video image can win a policy argument. that raises the stakes and creates a lot more chaos. we saw in the health care fight it doesn't tend to work. >> jonathan swan, the seen here of the president saying to priebus and bannon, work this out, not saying that to jared kushner -- is there any indication in any of your reporting that the president is putting any pressure on jared kushner to find the solution to this relationship? >> my understanding is he has told them to cut it out. he's sick of seeing this.
it's really -- the last week has just become -- the tension was sort of building, but this week has just been ridiculous. there are stories from both sides. >> give us the most ridiculous example of how ridiculous it has become. >> you know, you have got stories now of like steven bannon saying to the president, i want to take my skills elsewhere, if you don't like me. anyone who knows steve bannon, he doesn't talk like that, doesn't say sentences like that. whoever put that out there -- it's not something steve bannon would say. he doesn't talk like that. he is a much more blunt instrument. there is leaking on both sides. the president is frustrated. my understanding is there is going to be some sort of kumbaya. who knows if this thing is going to work. >> i don't want to hear steve bannon singing. >> we are done with it on the. thank you both. >> sure shy if you hate
tvatizing there is a show on fox news that doesn't have any. bill roel. owe riley losing all -- pretty much. i think there is one advertiser i think there is one advertiser left o that's coming up. it's off to work we go! woman: on the gulf coast, new exxonmobil projects are expected to create over 45,000 jobs. and each job created by the energy industry supports two others in the community. altogether, the industry supports over 9 million jobs nationwide. these are jobs that natural gas is helping make happen, all while reducing america's emissions. energy lives here. all while reducing america's emissions. welcome to holiday inn! ♪ ♪ whether for big meetings or little getaways, there are always smiles ahead at holiday inn.
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bill o'reilly has lost advertisers every day this week, including today. one of the companies that stuck through -- stuck with him as long as they could this week. this is after the "new york times" reported that $13 million in sellingments have paid by fox news and by bill o'reilly to women who have accused him of sexual harassment. angie's list announced its decision to drop advertisingan the o'reilly factor saying we are no longer advertising on the program. and angie's list, i watched this on twitter all week. they were pressured and pressured, and pressured. rosie o'donnell leaned on ain angie's list on twitter. it succeeded. i think ay's list dropped o'reilly. earlier this week i think ay's list was saying it wasn't their policy to judge the content of shows that they were advertising on. o'reilly has not said a word about this on any night this week on his show. not one word. more than 50 companies have
our shoppers and shopping centers. if you look at shopping centers and jobs in stores it's been very, very tough for them. they have had a hard time closing at numbers and records that have never been seen before. so we have to stop that. the online predatory practices. since the beginning of the year, we have already created over 50,000 brand-new manufacturing jobs. and we're just getting started. we will lift our citizens from welfare to work. we will turn boarded up communities into new outposts of american commerce. and we will once again rediscover our heritage as a manufacturing nation. we used to be a manufacturing nation. not so much anymore but i will tell you, you look at michigan, you look at some states that have really moved, you know, in pennsylvania, two weeks ago they opened a mine -- the first mine that was opened in decades.
industry and much of that comes at the border. george washington encouraged americans to produce their own goods so that our young nation could become truly independent. president james garfield said of our nation's manufacturers that to them the country owes the splendor of the position it holds before the world. meaning, protect us. theodore roosevelt declared in his first message to congress that reciprocity, my favorite word, reciprocity, because we have countries that charge us 100% tax on a product and when that product is sold by them to us we brilliantly charge them nothing. people say that's free trade. no, that's stupid trade. that's really stupid trade. incredible.
that was the president trying to stay on message at the white house. that was a made in america/some mining jobs are back/shopping centers are in trouble/farms are losing their land event. by trump's standards on message but he started to tweet about his son's meeting with the russians guaranteeing that the perm acloud will hang over his presidency. most politicians would have gone to the meeting like the one don jr. attended in order to get info on the opponent. that's politics. here's sean spicer on the same topic. >> look, you know i'm not going to get into the specifics of this. but it's quite often given for people in the heat of the campaign to ask what that is. that's what he did. the president's made it clear through his tweet and there was nothing as far as we know that
would lead anyone to believe that there was anything except for a discussion about adoption of the magnitsky act. >> except, sean, for the e-mail from rob goldstone that i read on don jr.'s twet feed, in their meeting they offered to provide information that would incriminate hillary and her dealings with russia. this is very high level and sensitive information but it's part of russia and its government support for mr. trump. end quote. for you mr. president, that is not politics. in fact, it looks like an awful lot like collusion with a hostile foreign power. something you repeatedly denied. your news story that's just politics and that most politicians would have attended the meeting. well, we'll dissect everything wrong with your tweets. but first, to the reporters. we have hans nichol at the white
house, along with "new york times" julie herschel davis and a former chief of staff for the cia. hans, that was the president trying to be on message at a made in america event. but as the brilliant frank bringny said the teleprompter is his quiver and all the others are his tributaries. a great way to get into his mind. but what did you make of the day's communications starting with the tweet about the meeting that his son took and book ended by this address at the white house? >> well, the address to the white house he did take one detour from the made in america event and that is to talk about health care. and he seemed to be expressing renewed optimism almost as if there's an urgency to this, it could get done quicker than many are expecting. from what i heard from the president, the news that he thinks the vote can done. he thinks they have the votes. they have to do a little horse
trading. our colleagues on capitol hill aren't exactly reflecting that in their reporting. it seems to be a much more difficult swath. the president looked at mike pence, mike, it's up to you, you have to get this across the line. we learned what his favorite word is, reciprocity. >> good to know. >> nicolle, something you can agree with, he referred to the senator -- current senator from arizona, john mccain, as a crusty voice. you'd agree with that, do you think that's accurate? crusty voice? >> it's certainly better than the prior descriptions of john mccain so i'm sure that john mccain who has the thickest skin of anyone in politics will take it as a compliment. >> i suspect you're right on that. but he said he needed mccain's vote and he wished him well and said he needs to get back soon and suggested that he's going to be coming back much more quickly than others expected. i didn't know if that was inside
information that president trump has, that mccain's recovery is going at least as publicly reported. i think those are the two bits of news. the rest of the briefing earlier today was really focused on sean spicer reverting back to the earlier trump defense and the don jr. defense. >> why would he do that? i listened -- sean is one of the most tragic figures in american political history, but why would he trot out the adoption story today? >> it's mid july and you're asking me why questions about the trump administration? i can't answer why questions. what happened i can do and how they might plan to do something but the why is beyond my far power of words to describe. that's what -- that's what the kind of line was from sean today. and that the trump tweet speaks for itself, which is a circular response we get. any reasonable observer would look at that meeting he had with the russian lawyer and say it was about the magnitsky act which can't be true as you pointed out because the pretext for the meeting was on something other than the magnitsky act. it was sharing information that
could be helpful to donald trump's presidential aspirations. again, the why, i'm going -- i'm going to kick that over to jeremy bash. he used to be in the cia, maybe he has some intel. >> jeremy, take your cue from hans there and tell me why the white house spokesperson would use the podium to revert back to a nine day old -- i was on vacation but i kept track with the story of the day. and that it was a meeting about adoption was the story nine days ago. >> because here's the deal, nicolle. i believe the president's favorite word is reciprocity. because that meeting in june was about reciprocity. if russia and the government of russia came forward with incriminating information on hillary clinton then the reciprocity would be support for relieving the magnitsky act. in fact, they're very consistent and they tell exactly the story
of what happened that i believe at that meeting. >> what do you think happened at this meeting? >> well, i believe that the russian government dangled that lawyer, natalia veselnitskaya, into that meeting. she's too well connected to have done this as a freelancer. she was there accompanied by a former soviet officer, who has strong connections to the kremlin and to the russian government. they went in there to test the waters to see whether or not in offering support by the russian government the trump campaign would bite. of course don jr.'s response i love it. and the response in meeting we're interested in this. he didn't shoo them away and that's taken as a greenlight by the russian intelligence. if you're pitched by the russian intelligence, you don't alert the authorities, you're willing to play and it seems they were willing to play. >> the excuse is now not that
collusion is illegal. not that the russians were anyone other than just a friend offering helpful oppo. but that it didn't work out. that it was bungled collusion. but bungled collusion is still collusion, isn't it? >> well, yes. i mean, far be it for me to try to get inside of sean spicer's head but it seemed like what he was saying today was trying to somehow assert that the meeting didn't -- there was no discussion in that meeting of the reason for which it was billed and if the damaging information on hillary clinton. instead, they just talked about the magnitsky act. even if that were the case, the fact that donald trump jr. accepted the meeting as jeremy said it's sort of the nut of the problem here for them. even if it never did come up in the meeting and of course we don't know what happened and it's difficult to take their word on anything that happened during that meeting given the changing and evolving story line they have given us for whether it even happened.
if there's no promised dirt during that meeting at trump tower the fact the meeting was accept and that don jr. was willing to have that conversation and willing to not alert authorities and then it wasn't disclosed by him or by anyone in the campaign including jared kushner being one of those, makes this an issue that's not going to go away. >> so julie, i talked to west wing folks today and outside advisers to donald trump and the defender of this meeting could not be found. they thought it was a stupid meeting to take and they all thought that had read through the e-mail from goldstone would have seen it was a clear quid pro quo and i really have a hard time imagining how they're going to continue to deal with the president tweeting about a meeting that no one will privately defend, a spokesperson telling a different story than jay sekulow and the president.
it's like three people juggling knives and someone is going to get hurt pretty soon. >> well, that's true. i mean, the president's tweet this morning was inexplicable for that reason. the fact he brought the conversation back to the meeting can't be really defended and his own fbi candidate director last week said it was problematic and lawyers should have been consulted and the fbi should have been called in. it's clearly just a bad set of facts for them. don jr. himself in his interview about this last week actually admitted that. he said in retrospect i would have done it differently. there's no good way to explain it away. the best thing they can hope for which seems unlikely is that people will forget about it, not focus on it. i think bob mueller is very focused on it. and there are hopes that the public might forget about it is being crushed daily by the president himself who continues to tweet about it and to talk about it in that context. >> jeremy bash, what does
mueller make of the president's tweet this morning and the continued inability to come clean about a meeting that now the whole world knows about, thanks to don jr. tweeting out the e-mail chain himself. >> well, every week explanation looks like an effort to cover this up. if you're the special prosecutor charged with investigating this matter you're looking very carefully not just at this meeting but also about conversations that happened inside the trump campaign around this meeting. in the run-up to the meeting what were those three individuals representing the trump campaign discussing among themselves. when they walked out what did they discuss, are there e-mails about that? who else did they talk to? i think bob mueller wants to interview every single person who parent -- participated in the meeting an find out what the follow-up was. >> thank you for spending a little bit of time for us. jeremy is sticking around for the hour. real life campaign operatives on
what real life opposition looks like and when you should call the fbi instead of the ad makers. and the russia cloud is having an impact on donald trump's agenda and his approval ratings. he's the most unpopular president in the history of polling. we'll look closely at the most troubling numbers in all the data. ahh. where are mom and dad? 'saved money on motorcycle insurance with geico! goin' up the country. love mom and dad' i'm takin' a nap. dude, you just woke up! ♪ ♪ i'm goin' up the country, baby don't you wanna go? ♪ ♪ i'm goin' up the country, baby don't you wanna go? ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides. going somewhere? whoooo. here's some advice. tripadvisor now searches more than 200 booking sites to find the hotel you want
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you know, maybe concrete evidence to all the stories i had been hearing about, but probably underreported for, you know, years, not just during the campaign. so i think i wanted to hear it out. >> he's actually right in thames of people are always whispering i've got opposition here. i've got information there. and sometimes people want to aggrandize their own position, they wish to be helpful. >> if it wasn't about russian opposition research, that goes on all the time. it's a big part of campaigning. >> up o -- opposition research, what it is and is not. with a couple of folks including myself who have dealt with the mosten seemly aspects of presidential politics. joining me is frank bruni, a fellow at harvard shoren stein center. joel beninton, a senior adviser to the clinton campaign and joining me by phone is msnbc
contributor, steve schmidt and jeremy bash is still with us. steve, let me get you to weigh in on two things since you're on the phone. first, the president's tweet this morning saying that anyone with a -- would have taken the meeting that don jr. took. >> well, you and i wouldn't. neither would have joel bennett or any other loyal american with a sense of rectitude. this was an attempt at conspiracy, a part of a hostile foreign power. the most senior level of a political campaign. this has nothing to do with opposition research. this was an intrusion by the russian government, by its intelligence services to the highest levels of the republican nominee, and i think one of the things that would be interesting that we don't have a good answer for is why is it that the only sweat equity at the republican platform, that the trump campaign put forward was on the
issue of arm sales to the ukrainian government which the russians wither on the opposite side of? there are so many unanswered questions, but chiefly the notion that anybody would do this is just -- could not be more wrong. most everybody on the campaign, democrat and republican, in fact, would not do it. they would go to the fbi. >> joel, does this strike you -- i mean, i think we had this conversation during the campaign on television together. the asymmetry of the way donald trump ran against you and secretary clinton was almost in hindsight unbeatable. i mean, there was no moral compass. there was no adherence to norms. there was no -- i mean, i'll let jeremy weigh in on saying i love it to a foreign adversity is illegal. jeremy, quickly, is that illegal to say i love it to a foreign adversary promising dirt on hillary clinton? >> depends on the context.
go back to joel and i'll give you a more complete idea on this. >> in hindsight, how could you have adjusted to his -- to have defeated someone like this? >> i think you have to go back to the premise and recognize he was an unconventional candidate from the beginning. he went further than a lot of people thought even in the republican primary, took a long time for that to sink in. and then you have to still try to run your campaign. you can't get caught up -- >> but the question -- but the question gets confused, to you, to jen palmieri, how did you lose to this guy? i think that when we see the sort of lengths that i went to, how could you beat someone who was willing to accept help from a foreign adversary? >> look, if 40,000 voted differently we would have beat him fair and square. >> do you think that's -- >> a lot has unfolded and we thought that russian was meddling in the summer of last year. we thought all the evidence pointed to it. hillary clinton brought it up in the e -- debate.
whether it got enough attention remains to be seen. it's tarnishing his presidency. it is tarnishing his approval ratings. you have 23% of republican, 19% who say he acted unethically and another 4% who say it legally those are not good numbers. if i was a republican congress i'd start paying attention to how bad his numbers are really below the surface with republicans. >> to piggyback on who you're saying it's -- well, at the time it wasn't the trump administration, but what donald jr. did and what the trump campaign did, there's the this ecosystem of fake news which includes all of this russian meddling. there was a new report that came out called the fake news machine. whether things were true or false we have to remember that the russians were constantly inserting anti-clinton messaging into the election. now there are the new reports that south carolina's voting
machines had over 100,000 attempted hacks. there's the question of what happened in terms of the trump administration actually accepting, you know, possible information and collusion. there's the fake news ecosystem which we know about. i wouldn't rule out that there was some vote tampering. we don't know for sure. but we need to keep following that too. >> frank, what is the gut check? to me it's that we have -- i always wake up in middle of the night, we have been asking the wrong question. i think on this question of you know how -- why couldn't hillary beat this guy? how could you win against someone -- this is what we know about because don jr. apparently got backed into the corner by a reporter from your paper. but how do you -- and this to me is the asymmetry of our last conversation was about a news organization, cnn firing investigative journalists. what do you do about the unethical nature of this president? >> you're talking about the past.
i think at this point what you do is what you see the media doing. what we're doing at this table. you demand and search answers. the story is not going away because when you peel everything back, the central question is did we actually have a fair election that was fairly fought in which we got a result that truly reflect what is a majority thinks should happen for the country. that's an enormous question. i don't recall that question existing in this form in any election in any lifetime. quite to this extent. and because that's such a big question and because everything you get from trump world is quarter truths or outright lies, emissions, evasions, every day a new piece of information comes out we can't trust what we have heard to date. we'll be back here in a year and having a similar conversation. >> jeremy bash, i want to have you weigh in on the legal side of this. what does bob mueller do with
the team that struggled so openly and really in a scary way with the truth? >> well, bob mueller i think is going to focus on a couple of important federal criminal statutes and he's going to look at the facts and apply them to the statutes. first is whether or not they crossed any legal line with respect to federal election act which prohibits possessing of value from a foreign national let alone a foreign government. in all the individuals -- >> let me stop you right there because i want to bring in steve schmidt. i don't know if you watched jay sekulow make the rounds yesterday, but he was asked about whether this was something of value. the russians promising to help hillary clinton was -- or to help hurt hillary clinton to advantage donald trump was that a violation? he had a technical answer. steve, i wonder if you think that a campaign violation may have been committed by this
meeting with don jr.? >> well, it's certainly possible. one thing i know for sure, nicolle, is that the arbiter of what's legal or not legal in this matter is not jay sekulow. ultimately the justice department will make a determination if there's enough evidence there for there to be a criminal indictment. and so the one thing we know for sure is that at every instance as this story has unfolded, and really six hour one of the administration we have never seen an administration be more untruthful. lie after lie after lie compounding on each other. this story evolving and changing really almost on a quarter hour basis. so is it possible that when they were scheming with what they thought were russian government officials that a legal line was crossed? it's highly possible. the special counsel will make the determination on that.
but we do know enough to know that it was certainly dishonorable. it was unethical. and it is abhorrent behavior that's never been seen in any campaign for the president, republican or democrat, in the modern era. >> all right. we're hitting pause. no one is going anywhere. we'll be back with this discussion on the other side of a break. to stay in control. so i asked about tresiba®. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® is a once-daily, long-acting insulin that lasts even longer than 24 hours. i need to cut my a1c. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® works like my body's insulin. releases slow and steady. providing powerful a1c reduction. my week? hectic. my weekends? my time. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ i can take tresiba® any time of day. so if i sleep in, and delay my dose, i take it as soon as i can, as long as there's at least 8 hours between doses. once in use, tresiba® lasts 8 weeks, with or without refrigeration, twice as long as the lantus® pen.
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>> should we watch it again? >> one more time. >> one more time. please. there we go. >> well, i wondered why the secret service if this was nefarious, why did the secret service allow these people in? the president had secret service protection at that point. that raised a question with me. >> well, i wonder why it's raining sundays and sunny on other days. i mean, a lot of -- >> jay sekulow, the rest of his story was that the president wasn't there. he was in wisconsin. what does the secret service -- >> they have nothing -- >> these are things made up on the fly. they have nothing to with anything. it's like running out the clock and throwing the ball over there. >> but the secret service is sort of -- i guess i was going to see like the pope. but they attacked them too. but the secret service lashes back. i mean, they protect you. >> they're not even vetting these -- they're not like saying if i say this, what's going to happen five minutes later? remember the old episodes of
"get smart." would you believe this, that's what this damage control from the trump administration is. >> there's at layer to it that the blurred lines between the trump administration and the trump family and their political and financial interests are part of the big picture. because don jr. was not under secret service protection, but was he acting on behalf of the campaign? i would say so. >> but they're paying all his legal bills. >> but the fact there's a mushy set of influences where it's like, well, i'm not part of the administration, but i am in the white house doing this. i mean, the whole trump family is sort of pinch-hitting and that makes it very complicated to even track. >> and a white house official today told me there are some good things about having a family that's never been involved in politics before and some very bad things, put that in that category. and jay sekulow said this
bringing in of the secret service made me wonder about this. >> do you know for sure everyone who was at this meeting with donald trump jr.? >> no, i don't represent donald trump jr. and i do not know everyone for sure that was at that meeting. and the president was not at the meeting. i can tell you who was not there, the president was not aware of the meeting and he did not attend it. >> he was not at the meeting, therefore the secret service wasn't there. what do you think happened at the meeting? >> i doubt the president was there. >> why? >> i think it would have leaked out by somebody. because everything else is leaking out of that white house. i think that this is anything that would rise to the candidate in any campaign, that you said it's -- there's asymmetry there. i can't imagine anybody putting a candidate in the room even if you're a novice. >> probably tweeting -- >> elevated -- >> this is crisis mismanagement by the day. every day they dig a hole deeper. what sekulow said about the
secret service it creates another problem. we're talking about this every single day because they can't get out of their own way. >> and i would just add though, it's important to understand that a lot of trump voters are really frustrated by conversations like the ones we're having and we need to be having this conversation because it all does blur together. i would say that's actually not just sort of mismanagement, but possibly a tactic. if you can't understand anything, you can't believe anything. that's classic soviet disinformation tactic. i'm not saying they're not digging themselves a hole but i think also when you throw a lot of confetti in the air, people look around. for voters this can seem like confetti. >> it can, but if you look at trump's approval ratings with the independents it's disastrous. to give you a compare on the george w. bush who also won by losing the popular vote at this point in his presidency, he was about 20 points above water on his approval rating.
donald trump is 20 points under. with independents, he has a majority of independents who disapprove of him. you can't get things done in washington and get any of this stuff they're talking about on track if you can't demonstrate you're winning a sizable chunk of the middle. they have been losing the middle and squandering it day after day. >> maybe it's creating a lot of confusion and distraction but they're not getting any legislation moved forward. at some point, voters are going to say, what happened during this trump presidency, has anything changed to give me hope for the future? is my life better in any way? >> and his voters will give him time. that's what confounds the media. but they're not going to give him a free pass on that agenda. all right, frank, are you leaving me? no. you're staying here. frank, steve and jeremy are all staying here. it says you're leaving. the president is hitting a new record level for the president. while the downward trend is necessarily new but it should concern him when it comes to his core base.
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that's the power of and. and a new poll showing president trump hitting historic low job approval ratings, not climbing above 40%. gallup put his approval rating at 39%. beneath the six month benchmark of recent presidents including president clinton's tumult jous start. and even before the e-mails one in five republicans were saying that donald trump had done anything illegal or up ethical as joel pointed out. joining us is a former senior adviser to marco rubio and nbc news national political correspondent, steve kornacki. i know we talked all the time
and we talked about it on your appearances here about the durability of his pace. but the softest part of the kohl russian looking for results and may -- coalition are looking for results and they may see the endlessly bad news cycle. >> they may and i'm not sure we can articulate fully what it is his base wants. we can ask is it this issue or that issue, but watching the poll numbers tell me i don't know we can answer that. today is july 17, 2017. go back to july 17, 2016 we had a brand-new poll. he had historically low numbers. no candidate has been less popular on this day a year ago, his favorable rating was 27%. so you can't win with that. the republican party as a whole was running 22 points behind the democratic party on the image.
on the question of donald trump's views mainstream? 60% said no. his approval ratings that's roughly the same range his support fell in last year. we looked at it, republicans said, you know what, not only is it a bad campaign but a losing campaign. he'll lose a big chunk of republicans. he got 90% of republicans and he won the election. i don't know that anything has changed. >> alex, do you think -- let's bring alex into the conversation. do you think that republicans in congress are as immune to historically low poll numbers as donald trump is? >> they're not. especially when you get closer to the midterms. congressional republicans support president trump as long as he's going to sign their legislation into law. the problem is they're not passing much legislation. and if they fail to pass health care reform, if they fail to pass corporate tax reform, comprehensive tax reform, then they start asking themselves what's the point of tank all of
this flak for supporting a president if we can't get legislation to him to sign? >> what are you hearing from republicans on the hill about whether or not he's undermined or done enough or done too much or needs to do more when it comes to health care, calling the house bill mean, saying the republican bill needed more heart. what's the state of mind -- >> if health care reform fails it's president trump's fault. big things happen when you have presidential leadership and we haven't seen much from this president. he has yet to give a press conference about it. his tweets are all over the map. they're celebrating things like made in america week when they should be talking about health care reform. this is the most unpopular piece of legislation we have seen in a generation and they're doing nothing to do sell it. >> would your analysis be because that he doesn't need to. the base is with him -- >> well, my analysis on that would be that -- think of the psychology of the average
republican member of congress, think of how they reacted to everything i is a sid a about the campaign last year. they thought he was a loser. a lot of them didn't endorse them. a lot of republicans said i'll check his name off because he's the republican but i'm not campaigning for him. paul ryan cut him loose three weeks before election day. he put all the republican members of congress on a call and said you know what, if you off to disown this guy, disown him. they thought he was a dead candidate walking because everything he was saying was inflammatory. he wasn't talking about the issues. he wasn't putting coherent proposals out there. he had all of this personal scandals the "access hollywood" thing. they thought he was a loser to drag them down. not only did he win, that was critical in and of itself, here's a key if you're a republican member of the congress. he won 90% of republican voters. the polls all last year not only was he going to lose, but he was shedding republican support. he wasn't a true conservative. i think that -- >> well, joe scarborough has an op-ed out there.
he's getting 90% of a shrinking party -- >> we called it a shrinking party last year. >> there's fewer registered republicans -- >> the reason we're here in the middle of july with revelations coming last week, you couldn't imagine revelations -- >> but he's -- he's driving people out of the republican party. >> the message that the average member of congress took, and like democratic members of congress they worry more about primaries in this age that we live in than general elections. he understands the base of the party better than i do. he has a stronger bond and you know what? i don't know i understand what that bond is. that's a scary thing for politicians. >> the economic anxiety. >> but when you look at a bunch of longitudinal studies it's like a culture war like brexit. than any specific policy. you can't win a culture win with
facts. you have to go in and say what is it that really makes people affiliate themselves with this idea of making america great again and then you can start drilling down. but first of all, rational arguments are not really the motivation for a lot of people. and what i would say is that donald trump in counties that he won is still pulling about a 50% approval rating, which is about 15% higher than the national average. so people have not abandoned him in the places where he's run. and they may eventually, but really the math is for congressional republicans, they have to figure out how to try anger late between the sen trisz in their base and then donald trump has shown that he's willing to pill other republicans who don't hugh to him and right now he's still too dangerous to divide. >> thanks for breaking it down. up next, on top of the low approval rating and the russia investigation dominating the news cycle, the president is still hoping to get a bill passed to repeal and replace obamacare.
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discussions. >> pgs press secretary sean spicer says president trump. but the white house may alsoing going by any means necessary. the white house has reached out to respective primary senators for arizona senator jeff flake. erica, what is going on behind closed doors on capitol hill? i mean, jeff flake is as conservative as sort of as an old-fashioned conservative can get? >> well, as you know, jeff flake was probably the most outspoken senator during the campaign against president trump, and the white house seems to want to settle scores. but i don't know why they would pick now to do it when they need senator flake's vote on health care and there's not a single vote to spare. as you know, the vote this week that was planned has been put
off due to senator mccain's absence following surgery. i don't think anyone knows whether that really twhartd senator mcconnell's plans. however, every day that bill is not dead, it's alive, and that's where it is right now. and that's good news for senator mcconnell and the president. >> erica, do senate republicans look more wear ill at the white house or senate democrats? i guess dean heller was attacked by the trump super pack for, as you said, not falling into line on health care. jeff flake is now going to get primaried by a reported trump ally. i mean, are senate republicans walking around more sort of skeptical and anxious about what the white house is going to do or are they watching their flank from the democrats? >> well, i think as some of your earlier guests srp talking about, any republican in the current political environment is probably more worried about a
primary from their right than about their general election. that said, as you know, there really are only two senate republicans in this midterm cycle who have anything to worry about in either regard, and those are senator heller and senator flake, both of whom are he merging as key votes onel health care. senator heller in particular we're all dying to know what he thinks. he has yet to he merge today. we're all going to be looking for him later today when the senators return for votes. but i don't know that the white house gets very far by poking these senators when they need them this legislation. >> steve smith, way in on the practice of poking members of your own party on twitter and in the press as opposed to picking up the phone and trying to woou them. >> typically it doesn't work. look, politics is a
transactional business and the trump administration is ultimately going to need their votes on tangs reform and other initiatives. and ultimately the last thing in the world the trump administration wants is to see a democratic house or a democratic senate with subpoena power. so you talk about a self-defeating strategy, unbelievable. >> jeremy bash, weigh in on the pearls for the republicans on the intel kmelz of getting too mired in the politics of the trump white house. >> yeah. they have to strike this very independent r cord, here s nichole. they have to show that they are willing to pursue this investigation and the facts wherever it leads. so there is some peril if they line up too closely on the russia investigation or other matters. >> alex, does marco rubio like mr. trump. >> personally, they get along fine. they obviously have some big policy disagreements. >> on what? on -- i mean, the whole presidential primary dpan, you know, they were arguing over
healthcare reform. >> i remember, but sometimes -- >> immigration reform is a classic example. free trade is a clask example. human rights where marco -- >> but what fight has he picked with him since he's been president. >> human rights. he's fought the white house and criticized them when they had, for instance, warmer relations with ejust a minute. marco is a strong supporter of free trade and has been critical of this administration when they have been trying to withdraw from the world. >> joe scarborough left are the republican party. we were talking about polling, a shrinking number of people identifying themselves as republican. what do you think at this moment the state of the republican party is? >> i think it's if a bit of disarray and i think it's in danger. joe scarborough left for a reason. we're talking about this for a reason. right now donald trump is behaving in ways that many voters disapprove of. he's behaving in ways that violate republican ort doeks all
likely the influence of the new chief of staff here, retired general john kelly who has been clear, trying to send a signal there is a new sheriff in town. that he's not going to tolerate discord and some of these tweets that are off message. but will we see this over the course of time? that remains to be seen. we've had sort of the pockets of the president being very restrained when it comes to his messaging. i think when it comes to the relationship on capitol hill and this next battle that you talk about, the challenges, not only do you have republicans, conservatives like jeff flake speaking out, obviously he's been critical of candidate trump all the way back to the campaign trail, but republicans just don't seem that afraid of him. that's why you have lisa murkowski saying i'm going to vote against you in the health care fight. how does he get republicans on board to get tax reform done? the reality may be that they're looking at tax cuts, because they don't have that big, broad
support and they didn't get health care reform passed. >> very quickly, i'm curious, was there any chatter, you know, off camera or any chatter that hey, this president plans to make jeff flake pay a political price in 2018? any of that chatter today? >> i think there's not that chatter today. there was more of a dismissing jeff flake today say thing is someone who has always been critical of the president. we're not going to worry about him. but more broadly, that's the direction the president could go in as we get closer to 2018, not just against jeff flake but others who have been critical from him. >> the lack of response from him, that is very mature way to respond. so kasie, you talked to any member you could find today, none of them willing to back up jeff flake. is he a man on an island, or a man on a public island, but if there were a private island, he
would have a lot of company? >> i think he has a lot of company on his private island, but nobody wants to be seen showing up by private plane on the island. i spoke to a number of republicans today. you saw there john cornyn responding hey, are you afraid of president trump? they all insist that they're not, but there is this pervasive fear of president trump. i think that's driving a lot of these dynamics. look at the actual on paper progress that this congress has made on behalf of president trump. they're ignoring his plea to take up health care again. mit and they're ignoring his frustration with jeff flake. we have a new statement tonight that unequivocally says the nrsc
supporting senator flake, as we do all of our incumbent members. so they're still standing by him. >> i know you just caught up with him. tell me about the quick interview you just had with jeff flake. >> so i talked to him about this. one thing i will say, chuck, to what kristen was saying about the white house not responding, this has been a long-time critic, senator flake has been a little taken aback by the level of focus on what he had to say. i think he's been a little bit -- he's not said -- used the same strong words that he used in the op-ed in the book on camera necessarily. but he did have one noteworthy statement. talking about populism and the president's impact on the country. take a look. >> populism is -- you can win elections with it. it's popular, it's populism. but it's not a governing philosophy. it's kind of a sugar high.
and if you continue in that vein, we'll lose elections. >> reporter: i think it's noteworthy that i didn't use the word populism in a question, he brought that up on his own by himself. look, i think flake also is confident that mcconnell will stand by him. he said hey, look, i have one tough re-elections in arizona before. >> thank you both. and kristen, give a special shutout to dennis gaffney. i think this is his last live shot on our show today. >> it is indeed, chuck. we just had some cupcakes, toasting him for an incredible legacy. >> he did plenty of my live shots and made me look less ugly than normal. >> makes us all look good, that's for sure. he's smiling from ear to ear right now. >> thank you both. let me bring in my panel.
welcome all. this feels like we are -- the canary in the coal mine with jeff flake. we criticize politicians all the time for not taking a risk. he's doing this, arizona. he's putting his political career on the line with his criticism. no one can say he's not doing that. >> i believe that. i believe he saw something in the tea leaves three or four months ago when he started writing the book, which that trump has hated him since the fall of 2015. they had a confrontation in a meeting and flake told him his behavior was appalling, and trump said i really hope you lose. and flake said i'm not up next year. and there are noises about some of them primarying him in arizona, and whether flake would find himself in the race of his
life and trump would be winking and nodding for people to vote for his opponent. he may think he has nothing to lose. but having said this, this was an extraordinary thing he did, and he is reflecting opinion inside the republican party about -- opinions expressed freely during 2016. trump has brought the same spirit from the campaign to the presidency, and as haste week's hijinks with anthony scaramucci indicate, that is a terrifying thing for anybody who wants the country to be managed effectively. not just scaramucci, but the failure to pass a health care bill, which is a sign of not only his weakness, the president's weakness. he can't scare murkowski, collins and mccain for voting
for the health care bill, he's not -- it's not that he's a lame duck. he's pretty lame for somebody only seven months into office. >> that's a bunch of other quotes here and in some ways he blames the voice. we've given into politics of anger. these are the spasms of a dying party. anger and resentment and blaming groups of our people might work in the short term, but it's a dangerous impulse in a pluralistic society. the state of arizona gave us joe arpaio. the republican party there has always been schizophrenic, it's given us john mccain and jeff flake, and then back in the day evan meekum. he really is putting himself and this issue front and center. >> we're one of the last states to recognize the king holiday. the reality is, you have to ask
yourself what was donald trump's crime in the minds of republican elites. jeff flake has voted 95.5% with donald trump. the predictive score is he would have voted with trump about 61% of the time. so this is not a difference in content or what they want to do. it is really to me about the gap between the text and the s subtext. if donald trump committed a crime among republican elites, he made the long-term subtext -- if you've been listening to right wing talkradio, the same anger and rage and anger at the changes in the country, the same sort of, you know, sometime vulgarity existed. it's just that elites in the republican party didn't accept that as the way to market the party to the world. donald trump recognized better
than they did that he could simply identify with the text of what people were saying on talkradio or listening to when they heard rush limbaugh, the anger and rage they felt all the time, the political correctness and the i can't say these things, trump said yes, you can, or i can say them for you. all trump did is take a lot of the anger already there. trump is just making it open and obvious, and the republican elites can't stand it. they want to get rid of medicaid. trump's instinct is to say that's mean. trump knows more about the republican base than jeff flake does. >> she brought up an interesting point. how does jeff flake square voting with him? what is that line -- it's clear jeff flake's problem is more in character than anything else. >> jeff flake is essentially
doing what donald trump is doing, except in reverse, which is making a statement about what he sees the values and the tone of the republican party should be. donald trump has a tone that he thinks should be the tone of the republican party. jeff flake, he reminded me of mitt romney. >> ever use the phrase compassionate conservative? >> when mitch mcconnell brings forward a bill, of course jeff flake is going to vote for that. donald trump has no policy ideology. he doesn't have any policies he wants to advance. he was brazen and bold saying i don't think people care about policy on the campaign trail. so yes, jeff flake is going to vote with the policies. >> jeff flake is a conventional republican conservative. donald trump is an unconventional, non-republican, non-conservative. >> and most of the base of the
republican party agreed with donald trump. >> and they also agree with jeff flake. they like trump, they have no trouble with flake's voting record or no problem with the way flake views things. >> how does this play out? >> it's about character and behavior. >> if that mattered, donald trump would not have been the nominee of the republican party. he ran against the tin dolls of the beltway media. he ran against marco rubio -- >> you said trump is nice on medicaid. >> no, no, i said he understands the base of your party better than the e heat lites do. >> it's not my party. >> the elites of the republican party thinks that the base agrees on eviscerating medicaid. donald trump understands the base of the party is fine with big government, as long as they're the beneficiaries. [ overlapping speakers ] donald trump gets them and the
elites of the republican party don't. >> this makes very clear that jeff flake does not agree with donald trump that donald trump is someone to be feared in 2018. >> all right. we'll pause the conversation. coming up, can john kelly bring some much-needed direction to the white house? i'll talk to someone who has been in kelly's shoes. former clinton chief of staff william panetta joins me just ahead. only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product but i was like well i've had usaa for a while, why don't we call and check the rates? it was an instant savings and i should've changed a long time ago. there's no point in looking elsewhere really. we're the tenneys and we're usaa members for life. usaa. get your insurance quote today.
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as the acting director in the interim. so now he'll be sworn in, presumably in the next 24 hours. this is the first time any fbi director is getting more than one no vote, there is three of them. the entire state of oregon is a no on wray. looking fabulous in my little black dress? that's cool. getting the body you want without surgery, needles, or downtime? that's coolsculpting. coolsculpting is the only fda-cleared non-invasive treatment that targets and freezes away stubborn fat cells. visit coolsculpting.com today and register for a chance to win a free treatment. this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail
they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ >> >> welcome back. the new white house chief of staff did not waste any time yesterday asserting himself in his new role. he's the latest in a long line in white house chiefs of staff, brought in by presidents to right the ship in tumultuous times. another president, bill clinton, made one of those moves bringing in leon panetta to serve as chief of staff to calm a jittery capitol hill and white house staff. presidents clinton and trump were in similar positions in the polls when they had to make
their chief of staff. i'm joined now by leon panetta. i don't know what to say. i need the chief title today, sir. >> it's which ever one you want to use, chuck. normally it's secretary panetta. >> you will love this lead. this was in "the new york times" the day you started. the announcement came at a time which mr. clinton is being strongly buffeted by political cross currents home and abroad. his stam his health reform effort is being picked apart in congress and he's increasingly being accused of indecisiveness in foreign affairs. so you do know what john kelly is going through. oven
obviously, there's some differences between perhaps the public discipline of donald trump and bill clinton. but let's focus on the similarities. explain what you think john kelly is going through right now that you remember. >> well, i think the big challenge is to walk into the white house and really be able to get your arms around the operations within the white house. it's really critical that he establish relationships first and foremost, obviously with the president. there has to be a relationship of trust between the president and the chief of staff. now, in addition to that, he's got to be able to establish a relationship with the staff that's there, and make them understand that he's going to be chief of staff, and that they're going to have to go through him. so i think the real challenge for john right now is to be able to put in place elements of
discipline, a strong chain of command, the ability to develop some kind of orderly process or policy. those are the big challenges that he faces from the get-go. >> now, you had to create a personal rapport with bill clinton that wasn't there in the beginning, because you were a washington and california guy, with an arkansas democrat. and you're brought in to fix things. on one hand, you have a honeymoon period. how much advice do you give to john kelly saying if you got tough decisions to make, make as many as you can in the first couple of weeks. how do you basically take advantage of your honeymoon period with your boss? >> well, it's very important that first and foremost that john kelly and the president understand each other in what needs to be done. and that the president is willing to delegate that
authority to his new chief of staff. that has to take place. bill clinton understood the problems that were in the white house. he was willing to delegate authority to me as chief of staff, to be able to reorganize the white house and develop the kind of chain of command. that was important there. so the most important ingredient is to have a president who is willing not only to give you the authority you need, but is willing to back you up and to trust you in that process. that's going to be fundamental to john kelly's ability to be able to get his job done. >> you don't have just a unique insight of the job. john kelly, i believe he was one of your chief military aides during part of your tenure at the pentagon. what is a skillset that he has that you wish you had going into being chief of staff? >> well, i do know john. he was my military aide when i was secretary of the department
of defense. he's a tough marine. he understands what discipline is all about. he understands what a strong chain of command is all about. he understands what an orderly process is all about. he understands that you have to stay focused on accomplishing the mission. those are all important ingredients that go to his experience as a marine. those are good qualities. i think the important thing he's going to have to pick up on is the politics of operating within the white house. the politics of understanding where the staff is, what the relationships are, and also the politics of dealing with capitol hill. because in the end, if this president is going to survive, it isn't just have just to change your chief of staff. you have to get some things done for the country and the chief of staff is going to be very important to whether or not that happens. >> before i let you go, there are two developments on the international front that i want to get you take on.
secretary tillerson made sort of the most remarks he's made yet about north korea and he said the following in a briefing to reporters. he said he wants a dialogue with north korea, he doesn't want regime change. he said we are not the enemy, but they are threatening us. we're not asking for reunification of the peninsula. he's trying to send a message they want to talk, negotiate. does et seem to be a contradiction of where we were headed before? frankly, i am confused to what is our policy when it comes to north korea and that leadership. >> well, that's the first thing that i think the administration has to focus on is one of the things that john kelly and general mcmaster are going to have to focus on is what is the strategy here? obviously, there has to be containment. obviously, we have to be tough in terms of our military presence. obviously, we have to be tough in terms of making clear that
the north koreans cannot develop an intercontinental ballistic missile that could threaten our country, and we have to take strong steps to deal with that. but at the same time, we have to reach out diplomatically to see whether there is an opportunity to engage in negotiations. but it's going to take both efforts. you need a strong military effort. you need a strong diplomatic effort. if there's going to be any hope of dealing with north korea. >> and there's been some reports, there was "washington post" report and no final decision, but the state department is thinking about editing the mission statement that would eliminate of promoting democracy, essentially promoting democratic values around the world. are you concerned about that? some could argue that american foreign policy has to be more realistic and pragmatic, so take that out of the mission. what say you? >> america's diplomacy in the
world has been based on our values and our principle value is our respect for our democracy, our freedoms, and our ability to be able to engage in self-government. those are the critical features of what makes us a strong country in the world, what makes us the world leader. if we eliminate reference to democracy, if we limit reference to the basic freedoms and liberties that are critical, not only for our country but the rest of the world, then i think it undermines our ability to exert world leadership. it makes us weaker. >> so you would advise secretary tillerson don't make any changes to this? >> don't mess with that. you don't need to mess with that. what you need to do is to get more diplomats in the state department to do the job that you have to do, which is to reach out to the world and engage in diplomatic relationships that can help our country provide security to the world.
>> secretary panetta, wish we had more time with you. but appreciate you coming on and sharing your views, sir. >> good to be with you, chuck. still ahead, why a power grab in venezuela could have a significant impact on our politics at home, coming up next. this is the new guy? hello, my name is watson. you know wine, huh? i know that you should check vineyard block 12. block 12? my analysis of satellite imagery shows it would benefit from decreased irrigation. i was wondering about that. easy boy. nice doggy. what do you think? not bad.
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ask your doctor about victoza®. i promised you some quick christopher wray news. the three senators didn't vote at all, mccain, al franken and richard burr.
the five democratic no votes, the oregon delegation and the massachusetts delegation. so there you have it. coming up, the trump administration's own version of fake news. we'll be right back. about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. he's happy.t's with him? your family's finally eating vegetables thanks to our birds eye voila skillet meals. and they only take 15 minutes to make. ahh! birds eye voila so veggie good
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him of human rights abuses and calling him a dictator, disregarding the will of his people. join me now is the author of "the florida playbook" and has been covering the issue of venezuela interests in american politics. mr. caputo, good to see you. >> good to see you, chuck. >> let me start with the fact that the two senators from florida here, democrat and republican, are lock step on what to do about venezuela and what action they want to see taken. it reminds me of how lock step the two parties were when it came to cuba policy oh, i want to say circa 25 years ago. >> before marco rubio coined the term a few years ago, but venezuela is the new cuba, its government is not only reminisce
sent of cuba but heavily influenced by it. so you have the belief in florida that what meduro is doing and what chavez before him was doing is destabilizing the region. what we're starting to see in florida is more and more of an influx of expats coming here from venezuela. and the latest wave are the venezuelans. there's at least 117,000 who now live here. it grew that much between 2000 and 2012. it's probably about 36,000 venezuelan born voters on the florida voter rolls. >> and let's remember the way this works. this is -- basically this new exodus out of venezuela began with hugo chavez, and obviously it's been accelerated with meduro. but the venezuelans that have come over, they were the ones that had the means to do it,
that had the connections to do it. so almost by the definition, these new venezuelan residents and soon perhaps to be voters and citizens, they come in extraordinarily engaged in the political process as it is, which i assume makes them more persuasive to the marco rubios and bill wells. >> of the 35,000 venezuelan born voters in florida, their turnout rate in the last election was 80%. the rest of the state was 75%. but it's an up for grabs lector cat. of them 17,000, about half, are registered as independent voters. about 12,000 are register eed a democrat, 6,000 registered as republicans. they appear to lean a little more left than the right.
but it's not clear which way they broke right or left, and they seem to be up for grabs and both parties are trying to grab them. >> i have noticed in my visiting back home pockets of the influence of venezuelan exiles and venezuelan culture. but is it -- are you starting to see larger communities being built in south florida just from the same way we have a little havana, we're going to have a little caracas. >> you're not quite seeing that, but the city of dural where donald trump has his golf course, but it's fick named duraluela. you're seeing these bigger pockets grow in influence and numbers. you're going to see more and more of that as the meduro regime appears to crack down more and more. one of the lessons from cuba, if
you're going to do sanctions, don't expect them to change a dictator or a regime's behavior, do it because you think it's necessarily the right thing to do. but i don't have much faith, considering our cuban history, in venezuela or meduro changing his behavior to the degree we want it to change. >> and is history repeating itself, where the people that can make the change in venezuela are fleeing and then comes here. >> you know, mao said all political power comes from the barrel of a gun, and meduro is intent on exercising that political power right now. >> mark, a pleasure to have you on. still ahead, why so many statements by this administration require a sequel. . the at&t network is helping first responders connect with medical teams in near real time...
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on the sunday version of "meet the press." >> can you tell me about the reports that the president was involved in the initial response that donald trump, jr. gave "the new york times"? >> so i read those reports as well. and the president was not -- did not draft the response. the response was -- came from donald trump, jr. >> i notice you ducked the aspect of whether you can guarantee that nobody will be worse off financially. >> i firmly believe that nobody will be worse off financially in the process that we're going through, understanding that they'll have choices that they can select the kind of coverage that they want for themselves and for their families. >> i have talked to general flynn. none of that came up, none of the subject matter of sanctions or the actions taken by the obama administration did not come up in the conversation. >> there was no challenge of american policy currently by mr. flynn with the russians? >> none. >> i answered the question of
why the president asked the white house press secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a falsehood, why did he do that? it undermines the credibility of the entire white house press office. >> don't be so ofly dramatic about it, chuck. they're giving sean spicer -- he gave alternative facts to that. >> in these and other cases what the administration said ended up being wrong. not a shade of it, not a way to spin it, it was just flat out wrong. did the people say what they believed to be true at the time? did they mislead unintentionally? did they mislead intentionally? was it a lie? was it that kind of motivation? we don't know that, but at this point, they have accumulated a ton of instances where it appears they owe us that explanation in that front. it's a reminder why young journalists are taught the
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lid time. panel is back. phillip, let me start with you. this issue of boy, the white house just keeps getting caught not telling the truth. they seem to be okay with it in the moment. it's like everything is short term. get out of the moment, avoid a bad story in the moment and hope it just never pops up later. we go with this idea. did the president get involved in donald trump junior's statement. new york times said he had a hand in that statement. jay said to me as we just showed, no. no part of it at all. now sarah huckabee sanders is saying he took an interest in the way any father would. >> anything further the thing that struck me about what sanders said is she said his origin gnal statement is true wh is misleading. >> you want to define true. there was no, nothing in there
was fault. they just didn't tell us. >> here's the thing to keep this mind about donald trump, his experience in politics is you say whatever you want to say. late er you backtrack. >> you said it experience in politics. you are both new yorkers here. that's his experience dealing with tabloids. you could say whatever you need to do to get through page 6 today and worry about it later. >> it's up, your down. it is what it is. market change in real estate. trump used to dealing that way. i wonder what does don do all day. tlp is a white house counsel office that should be advising these guys to conduct themselves that doesn't put them in legal jeopardy. we lempbed this time and time again, in other words for the team to tell the truth, they have to be told the truth by the principle. we don't know what donald trump
is telling them. >> i think something happened that first week after his election when it was laid out by lawyers that he would not have to denude himself of the trump organization and there was this body of law that suggested that a president could not be indicted or sued or be the subject of criminal action while in office and he was like, get out of jail free card. >> he's like this is great. i can go four years without lawsuit. >> nixon was right. i'm free. i'm not kidding about this. you can see it when he said it three or four times this november or december. it's like this lightbulb over his head. problem is, nobody else has the free pass. his son doesn't have a free pass. his daughter doesn't have a free pass. all these people are lawyered up. they're going to be interviewed. >> hesitate realit's really jus
pence. it's the two heads of the executive branch. >> remember the fact he was told repeatlied for a year and a half you can't do this. you can't lie. you have to be honest and he won. he was validated, obviously, he spends a lot of time how he's validated by having won the election but this in particular he feels that way. >> this gets a the challenge we all get accused of bias but when somebody is this blatant in their contradiction it makes you question everything they say. >> i think beyond trump's legal jeopardy, the problem is it starts to call into question the mundane coming out of the administration. you're smoezed esupposed to tr
basic. it becomes to trust the difficult writ large. we're back at the nixon moment because minor things are lies. i don't know. i can't head our tailing of it. that's what he wants. >> all white houses do this. all white houses spin, through news story, try to change focus. say we're moving forward for a year when bill clinton became president. it's time to move forward from this story. the story just been out for an hour. that's a classic thing. >> we'll leave it there. thank you all. you can catch joy reid tonight. she's filling in for rachel maddow. after the break you wouldn't
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