good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. brand-new news that democrats may rather not hear when it comes to their party's chances to maintain control of the senate after november's midterm elections. there are 36 senate races this year and republicans just need to win six additional seats to gain control. a new nbc news/marist poll out this morning underscores the challenge of facing democrats. in arkansas' senate race, republican come cotton leads the democratic inkoum bent mark pryor by five points. in kentucky, mitch mb connell leads allison london grimes by eight points. one bright spot for the democrats in colorado mark udall leads his republican challenger cory gardner by six points. another key senate race is in my new home state of north carolina np which president obama won in 2008 but then lost four years later. his current disapproval rating in north carolina are near an all-time high. the latest poll on the north carolina senate contest, democratic incumbent kay hagan is clinging to a razor-thin lead over north carolina's statehouse speaker tom tillis. and in the state that inspired the moral monday protests, there are a lot of key issues to talk about, education, reproductive rights, voting rights just to name a few. but in the very first debate between hagan and tillis monday night, this was the very first question to the statehouse speaker of north carolina? >> how do you think the administration should proceed? does the u.s. need to strike isis in syria to protect american national security? >> okay. did you catch that? she's asking that of the house speaker, the north carolina house speaker, the first question in the first debate in the u.s. senate race in north carolina is not about anything going on in the state but about isis and the obama administration. as expected, tillis called for tougher action by president obama but so did the president's fellow democrat, senator hagan. the answers by the candidates as well as the question itself demonstrate how in north carolina, like elsewhere, midterm elections are about as much about president obama as they are about anything or anyone closer to home. hagan is just one of several democratic candidates distancing herself from the top democrat in the country. and that's because a whole lot of voters appear to be distancing themselves from the president too. the latest gallup poll, the president's job approval rating has dipped to 41%. it doesn't help that recently at nearly every turn it seems as though the president is confronted with yet another unsolvable crisis. just for starters, there is the brutal militant group isis beheading two americans. friday after smoefrls of steady job growth, employment numbers for august were lower than expected with just 142,000 jobs created. there's vladimir putin messing with ukraine. there's ebola in western africa. and then just yesterday the white house announced that the president will not take any executive action on immigration until after the november midterm elections. and that was at the urging of many in his own party. as "the washington post" reports, senate democrats have warned that any bold executive action ran the risk of upending the chances of several democratic incumbents running for re-election in southern states. one of those democratic incumbents usualing the president not to take executive action, you guessed it. north carolina senator kay hagan. and you may understand why given her challenge is a fairly fervent response to a question on immigration in that same debate wednesday night. >> now, we talk about how easy it is to seal the border, but we're not sealing the border. we'd failed to seal the border dating all the way back to the ray dwan rather. we need to get serious about that. a strong nation needs a strong border. we have to seal the border. >> i think he really wants to seal the border. some republicans are denouncing the president's decision to delay executive action on immigration as a cold political calculation. in an exclusive interview with nbc's chuck todd, the new moderator of "meet the press," the president said the surge of unaccompanied children across the border this summer was a factor in his decision. >> the truth of the matter is the politics did shift midsummer but a of that problem. i want to spend some time even as we're getting all our ducks in a row for the executive action, i also want to make sure the public understands why we're doing this, why it's the right thing for the american people, the right thing for the american economy. >> the president had initially promised to take action on immigration before the end of the summer and it remains to be seen how his reversal and reasoning for it will play with the growing latino electorate. in his interview with chuck todd, the president also spoke act isis and how the u.s. and its allies can contain the sunni militants. the president says he will meet with congress in the coming days and deliver speech about his plans for addressing isis. >> what i'm going to be asking the american people to understand is, one, this is a serious threat. number two, we have the capacity to deal with it. here's how we're going to deal with it. i am going to be asking congress to make sure that they understand and support what our plan is. and it's going to require some resources i suspect above what we are currently doing. >> so from immigration to isis and the politics involved in both, this is clearly a president now operating in crisis management mode. joining me now, "new york times" editor at large marcus mabry. nice to have you. >> good to be here. >> okay, so let's back up for just a second to the polls. clearly the president seems to be responding to these very tight polls. what do they say to you? >> well, it's interesting. many of our polls -- right now "the new york times," we say probably have two-thirds, 66% chance of capturing the senate. all these polls, a lot of them -- you showed the one where is basically republicans are in excellent shape -- there are a few states that could go either way, one or two points, landrieu in louisiana, you know, the democrats are in trouble there. it could go -- we're talking act a wave election potentially, but i don't think you can call that. a wave election would be if republicans took the vast majority. at this point seven to nine toss-up states. all the republicans need as you said are six seats and they're there. >> let me ask you this. don't they already droll senate? and i'm being very serious here because this brings me to the immigration question and the decision to punt. right? it's football days, a lot of punting things going on. but it does feel to me like this presumption that kind of backing off allows for these blue dog democrats to win, nobody is talking act democrats picking up seats and at this point since the senate has to be filibuster proof to actually operate, don't they already control the senate? >> yes and no. the democrats of course exercise the quasinuclear option and said in some actions instead of needing a super majority we'll go with a simple majority and that allows them to get things through like presidential confirmations, which are important. so it's not as you say at this point for the democrats. but i think if you see this tip, i don't see how you actually complete the last two years of the presidency. it's got to be the most miserable situation in the world. the house doesn't do anything. senate would be impossible for the president to -- >> okay so, look, you don't govern in the last two year ts of a -- let's be really, like, hardcore, this is painful for me to say, honest, president obama gets to be president for two more months because then there will be a midterm election and then he will be lame duck and all eyes turn to who will be president next. >> absolutely. >> why not govern in the two months he has left? why not get the immigration done? >> the political calculation is clear enough. there is no reason to do anything that's going to make it harder for one single senate democrat candidate to win in his or her race. there is no upside to that. >> okay. kay hagan, mary landrieu, if they want to win, this is not a general election. they're not in the middle. they've got to get excited again. those voters who do still support president obama. those who have stayed on his side. now shouldn't they in that context go ahead and throw a little caution to the wind and be, like, you know what, i am down with president obama, he's going to do immigration reform, i'm going to stand with him shgt and i dare you not to come out and vote for me? >> the bet is that there's actually more of a downside potential the democrats doing that because it would further invigorate a republican electorate and actually help the republican candidates in these close red and purple states than it would help the democrat by saving the ra l.a. tino base, which would be in support of those kinds of policies. political ka clcalculus is pret brutal. they don't want to enlivin' the base anymore. two years ago republicans were convinced mitt romney was going to win. that's what their internal polling showed them. but their models were wrong. >> you know, we have no time, but i got to tell you, the point at which i feel like the president of the united states is being held hostage by tom tillis politically that the speaker of the north carolina house is one who gets to, you know, pontificate about sealing the border, it makes me wonder what the value of that position is. i want a little hmm! >> he will govern by executive action for the last two years. that might work in the short term. long term for the american political process it is a dire situation. >> all right. i want to remind the viewers that "meet the press" with chuck todd and his exclusive interview with president obama will air today at 2:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. the funeral of joan rivers is set to begin in less than an hour. we'll talk about her legacy next. ♪ ♪ fill their bowl with the meaty tastes they're looking for, with friskies grillers. tender meaty pieces and crunchy bites. in delicious chicken, beef, turkey, and garden veggie flavors. friskies grillers. 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(whistling) joan rivers got her big break back in 1965 when she first appeared on "the tonight show" with johnny carson. she would become a frequent guest and guest host for decades. >> this is like an old cliche. people say that new yorkers are rude and they're polite in los angeles. do you find that true? >> yes. >> i live in both places and i do. >> and it's healthy. >> healthy? >> california, everyone's smiling, they're dying of ulcers at 30. right? here there's hostility and it's overt. you know who you're tealing with. we had a taxi driver today, gave a $6 tip on a $40 ride, he gave us the peace sign, a half of it. >> still with me marcus mabry of the "new york times" and joining us liz winston, co-creator of the "daily show" and author of "lizz free or die." this has been a challenging week because my first reaction was i'm not a big fan of her comedy. and my friend sat me down and said no, you need to understand more about joan rivers. so help me to understand more about why she matters so much. >> yen what she did on stage and the kind of comedy that she was is comedy so subject they've i like to put that aside for a second. from the second joan rivers set foot on stage she announced to the world i'm a woman, i have something to say, i deserve to say it, and if you don't like it, weigh in and i'll weigh in back. and giving that permission -- and in 1965 when the pill was literally the supreme court said the same year, you married ladies can get the pill now, you know, it was a huge step for women to go, wow, i matter and i get to get up there and think about that and a lot of comics when they say especially women that joan rivers was the person who allowed me to feel like i actually deserve to be on the stage and command attention is huge. >> did you actually know joan personally? >> i did. i was on her -- >> there you go. >> that's '91-ish. she had a new talent show and i was on with john cicada. >> wow. >> the brilliance continues for the both of us. >> i can -- part of what is stunning about her is not only did she step on the stage in 1965 but also refused to leave stage. ever. right? she kept looking for another activity, another task, another gig. and in many ways also didn't even think of herself primarily as a comedian. thought of herself as an actor and sper taner and other sorts of identities. >> she always says she was an actor acting the part of a comedian. she so believed in it but also was so vulnerable and i think that's why to many populations, you know, i guess i should have known since 1986, i watched her show. for the lgbt community, especially for gay men, she's meant so much. and for women comedians, she spoke to our sense of i'm here and i'm going the to demand it. amay be marginalized but i'm going to take center stable. to do that for six decades, i think her last incarnation in many ways her most kind of famous incarnation. she's got a broader following now than she did ever before in six decades including being guest host of "the tonight show." >> that's right. >> those criticisms of her as mean or being harsh, sometimes mean and harsh, two people on the red carpet who were also women, are those gendered criticisms? >> you know, i think that comedy isn't nice in general. you know, how many comics that you think of that you go, you know what, i love how that person brings everybody together. >> yeah, yeah. >> comedy is based in that. people can have their feelings. and i think it's whooo what kind of humor appeals to you. do you like humor about fashion, shallowness, taking on celebrities? she took on her -- and i don't mean this as a justification for whether or not people liked it, but she took on herself as much as she did other people. does that mean it's okay to say other things? that's for others to decide for themselves what is they think is okay in comedy. i'm never going to say that. i put it out there and if people don't like it, i got to be able to defend it. >> even more harsh to herself than she was anyone else. the joke act, you know, wake up one morning and thinking she's wearing gray bunny slippers and they were actually her breast ts that had fallen. she said something as harsh and -- would have been hurtful, right? and she said it was one way of her dealing with the pain of self-hate or self-loathing. >> and there's something about somebody putting out there who they are and you don't have to wonder in the least bit about what's going to come it from and what it is. like it's very brave to be at your -- to beat at your absolute self. >> i've heard from many people the ways in which she opened doors but also watched on the night that her death was announced that it was all male late-night comedians who had a stage, who had a microphone to eulogize her. i do hope in addition to opening the doors there are opportunities for women to walk through them. thanks to marcus and lizz. coverage of joan rivers continues this afternoon right here on msnbc including a replay of celebrity joan rivers at -- excuse me, "celebrating joan rivers" at 3:00. up next, the reproductive rights clinic now back up and running but at risk of being shut down all over again. many empty rolls! 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>> you know, melissa, we left our clinic in mckeown completely intact with the hopes of being able to reopen and move from court that these laws provided a tremendous undue burden to the women in the rio grande valley specifically. and so we were hoping for an injunction and we were ready to go in case we were able to get it. even though we've only got two weeks here until the court meets again we felt like it was important to be able to serve these women locally in the community where they've been able to get safe, professional care for years before this law passed last year. >> little bit of flood news for texas and louisiana, but in louisiana it seems to be more of a timing question. the providers weren't given enough time to comply with this new law about admitting privileges. but in texas it does sound like there's a ruling here about an actual unconstitutional, undue burden. are you more hopeful that texas will actually remain -- that this will be a durable finding? >> you know, melissa, i'm always very careful being a reproductive justice person in texas with hope. but i am hopeful this time around. we put together a really good case. our evidence was really strong in the court. and the judge really saw that clearly in his decision. it's very straightforward that this provides very much of a documented and well-established undue burden and that the laws also not passed on anything that has medical evidence behind it. and so we really demonstrated a strong case and i'm looking forward to seeing what the fifth circuit is going to do this coming friday. i actually want to take a moment and have you hear your own corporate vice president making this point last thursday. let's listen. >> before these laws were passed there wasn't any type of public health crisis or any type of increase in complication rates. nothing has changed. abortion has been one of the safest medical procedures in medicine for decades and decades, and none of that's changed. >> so those are obviously the facts but is that a winning argument legally or politically in texas? >> one of the things we're dealing with is the stigma that surround abortion in this country and that a lot of these laws are passed from people's conflicting and moral ambiguity around feelings and beliefs. what we need to keep in mind is these laws are not passed based on medical facts and it is indeed true abortion one of the safetiest procedures, normal, common in health care procedure. almost a third of women in the united states will have an abortion in their lifetime. this law didn't do anything to sort of address unplanned pregnancy or do any prevention. it simply cut women off from their access to safe, professional, compassionate care. so we are really happy to, one, be able to reopen, but, two, are really committed in the long term to fight these kind of regulations that are passed not on medical truth or on fact but are passed basically about feelings and bleaches. >> in richmond, virginia, amy hagstrom miller perhaps having our first-ever good news conversation ever on this show. >> it's true. >> nice to see you. >> thank you. up next, the ebola crisis you have not heard about yet. there's a reason no one says "easy like monday morning." sundays are the warrior's day to unplug and recharge. what if this feeling could last all week? 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>> same way we've stopped past epidemics, when it was still rural, still relatively continue find, when the strategies that had worked in one epidemic after another would have succeeded. unfortunately, by the time the world community woke up and said, wow, we have a crisis on our hands, it was well beyond the boundaries of villages and rural areas and beyond the tactical approaches that had worked in the past and had become complete economy urbanize sod the many majority of cases are in monrovia, in freetown, in the big cities. >> when you talk about that sort of the world waking up, we were here kind of screaming out early on, talking about it going on, and now i have a certain sense of, like, guilt in the pit of my stomach because i wonder if those images that we're seeing, for example, of -- you know, of someone being shoved into the back of a truck, i think, have we just reproduced that sick, dirty, awful continent of africa that no one should go to or invest in? like there's this way in which the african continent has worked so hard to push back those kinds of themes about itself in order to come into an age of economic development. and i wontder if this ends up sort of taking a step back, the continent a step back. >> it could well do, that but i think we need to put this into perspective. as you pointed out, a number of the panelists in our discussions had pointed out, multiple cry cie. it's not just a public health crisis. it's governance crisis. people expect their governments to be able to deal with these things that occur. there will be outbreaks of disease. there will be natural disasters but the perspective i think we need to put it in is that governments often can't live up to the expectations, and unless we get too smug about what's happening in africa, we should remember hurricane katrina and the fact that the u.s. government absolutely let down its public and its citizens in its response. these are governments that are stretched to the limit in the best of circumstances in terms of governance. sierra leone, liberia, are coming out of brutal civil wars. education has been disrupted for decades in those countries. they're rebuilding, which is not an excuse at all for poor governance and a poorer response. but i think we just need to put it into perspective and understand that this is not just an african problem but rather a response to disaster whether it's public health or natural disaster that tests any government. >> and there is an intersection there between that issue of governance, how an economy operates, and this issue of sort of vulnerability in the case of my beloved new orleans to the levees being breached and in the case here of west africa to the question of the spread of this particular disease, because this is in part connected to thousand local economy works. is that right? >> absolutely. you have compete who are completely dependent on a resource for food, which is generally in many of these countries wildlife so, in about central africa alone about a billion pounds of wildlife consumed annually for food. there is limited choices and most people are marginalized in rural areas so they're left to pick and choose what they can in the forest and all these diseases are spreading over from wildlife and then burns out of control. if you have poverty, if you don't have education, if you don't have governance, it's like being surprised we had a forest fire after 20 years of drought. you have 20 years of no investment in education and poverty alleviation. and so it's right for a disaster. >> this is not a small point, this idea that the food source itself, the question of -- the kind of language we hear is bush league, that this language of wildlife that is part of like this key aspect of local economies and then that's precisely also the thing that creates a public health vulnerabili vulnerability. >> it absolutely is. but i think this has gone way beyond that because we see that africa's largest economy in nigeria is dealing with ebola and it didn't come from bushmen. it came from a personal trav traveling and now not just the commercial capital dealing with this the, the oil-rich city are dealing with this, how did thet this get there? a diplomat who contracted ebola got on a flight to talk to a private doctor and that doctor now treated him got sick and his wife is ill. so we look at how people are moving around in africa either by road or by flight and this is cutting across all sorts of things. so it's easier to say, well, let's quarantine people, but that does not work in reality. >> i'm going to add to this. we now have the total genetic analysis of 99 strains skwengsed and there was only one bush entry. >> that's been overstated. 100% human transmission after the initial transition. >> just how it starts. >> this tells you more about how this could be control. let me add i am angry with the united nations, with w.h.o., with the failure to respond. you know, the world health assembly led in many cases by african nations said, you know, we're past the infectious disease era. it's time to start slashing that budget, slash, slash, slash. do you know what the total disease response budget for w.h.o. for the year 2014 is? $114 million. >> million, not billion. >> $114 million. so if anybody thinks w.h.o. has rapid response capacity, a big team in a s.w.a.t. jet and they're going to swoop in and staich day, forget about it. then w.h.o. two weeks ago starts begging, and the world bank comes up and says, wow, you know, we looked around in here and we just found $200 million for you. so now we're up to roughly $300 million for a response that if this was indonesia, $5 billion, the entire u.s. pacific fleet. i mean, mobilization of 12,600 u.s. military personnel. what are we at now? zero. >> stay on exactly that because as soon as we come back, the president in speaking with chuck todd this morning actually addressed the question and i want to bring his voice in and get all the rest of you to respond as well. business, with startup ny. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ she can print amazing things, right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ if we don't make that effort now and this spreads not just through africa but other parts of the world, there is the prospect than that the virus mutates, it becomes more easily transmittable, and then it could be a seriously danger to the united states. >> so that was president obama speaking with chuck todd on mete the -- "meet the press" this morning. i'm sure the president knows there' not much fear about this thing, but it's gearing up for the kind of spending we were talking act before the break. >> i think that's absolutely right. by making it a national security -- potential national security crisis, the president is creating at least some interest in assistance. but as laurie said, the united states, the rest of the world, the u.n., the world health organization, the response is so inadequate. and the ability of the countries that are affected to deal with this is so low as to make such a response almost meaningless. >> i want to go back in part to what laurie is suggesting here. i'm wondering if there's a cross purpose, particularly for political leader, a moment where they say we're past the infectious disease state. is there a cross purpose of economic development interest and the need to attract particularly international economic development versus the need to address the health crisis? that if that actually ends up working against one another? >> well, you know, this is a time for leadership, and president obama had this huge africa summit in august. bring in all african presidents here, say america is ready to partner with you. we have a major crisis going on in west africa, and what really bothers me is that if you're going to say we're going to tried with you, we're going to do business with you but when your people are dying we're just going to wait and see, that doesn't really sound right. >> and the fact trade is actually being impacted, right? >> of course. >> "the new york times" cover story saying airlines have canceled their flights to countries that have been affected, the price of staple foods going up, dwinding supplies -- >> the planting season for several countries has gone down the drain right now. food prices are hiked up in liberia and sierra leone. people are hungry and disgruntled. what is concern to me right now is if you are sick in several of these countries and you don't have ebola, you have nowhere to go. if you are pregnant, if you have meningitis, if you have anything, it's all ebola all the time. so which means malaria season is coming up, people are going to get sick, people could die. this is going to be really catastrophic. and the united states has just said we want to be africa's partner. here's a time to show leadership. don't worry about politics. say these are our trading partners. we need to pump the money into west africa right now to contain this and to take care of this, because as we have said, we no what this does. we've seen ebola before. it's not new. >> is this what you're saying act indonesia? is this why the response would have been different? >> absolutely. here's our opportunity, okay? i'm going to speak now to the pentagon and to its counterparts in other wealthy nations. here's our opportunity moment and you will be hailed as saviors on the streets in western africa if you follow through. ghana has courageously stepped up to the plate and said we're willing to be the air bridge, meaning that all transport of goods -- because as you said, commercial airlines are no longer flying. we can't even get doctors in there now. right? there's no flights. ghana is saying we're prepared to be the air bridge. you can use the airport as a staging ground. you can start bringing in 20, 30, 40, giant c-540 planes with supplies, protective gear, medicine, the 11,000 health care worker theys need now at the current size of the epidemic, which now is by the way increasing by a thousand a week. >> exponential. >> unbelievable. huge increase. we have this opportunity. but, you know, ghana doesn't have the capacity to actually take care of all the kind of logistic and supply issues nap's a great role for the united states air force. >> absolutely. >> and then somebody's got to have the courage to risk that their pilots and crew are willing to make the short flights from the okra airport to whatever staging ground there are in the three countries and perhaps also nigeria. that's another role for the united states air force. >> how does doing that change who the u.s. is in the world? i don't know if anyone from the pentagon is watching. it's football sunday. but if someone is, how does making that decision change who the u.s. is in the world? >> the u.s. is dealing with a number of international crises on a number of different levels. ukraine, russia working with nato. isis in iraq and in syria. showing that degree of -- and we've got american politicians clamoring for the president to make firm statements, stands, actions in those areas. this shows america's soft power and this could be a demonstration of that. and it could also be a demonstration of leadership, showing the way for other wealthy countries to act as well. so, no, this could be -- it won't be transformative, but it could be another way for the united states to show it power -- >> and for a president who is so embattled, everyone is against ebola, right? i mean, this is the sort of thing where you could actually imagine this congress that is going to return to work acting. as we even begin to imagine these kind of large political, geopolitical, and economic responses as you look at this from a public health perspective, do you see, as you talk about malaria season, hunger, that there will be a kind of second wave of public hilt crisis that's not ebola but other kinds of infections that could come on the back end of this? >> oh, yeah. it's just brewing right now. we have to move away from just responding crisis to emergency to another disaster and go upstream and prevent it. the same ways we can educate people about reducing ebola or preventing it is the same thing we need for childed hood vacc e vaccinati vaccinations, the same investment for malaria. it's not extra money. it's just taking a really coordinated approach to engage civil society, give people the opportunity to be educators who can learn how to protect themselves. like i said, we can't prevent every disaster but we can reduce their impact. we have an outbreak in drc right now and that society has been exposed to this for several years and said we need to do something about this ourselves. as we spread around the -- get in front of these things. >> the expent if we don't seem s to be exponential in -- >> we will have endemic ebola in at least three countries, possibly in the whole of the west africa region that will go on for years. and if we don't act now -- and i'm not just saying act. i'm saying we need a log rhythmic increase in the commitment, the personnel on the ground, the logistic concern, the u.s. army to fly in the medevac unit theys ear so good with that we've got battle-hardened skilled guys that know how to walk spririghto a war. they need to fly right in, set up a medical response capacity and boom it's on the ground running in 24 hours. >> there's not anything that could be clearer than the suggestions laurie has made. thank you all for being here. still to come this morning, what an african-american-latino coalition could look like in 2014. and the u.s. attorney general is policing the police for civil rights violations. 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>> a.g. holder greatly overstates the effectiveness of a consent decree. even a doj investigation itself and subsequent federal monitoring. it's all overstated. there is no significant increase in public confidence, effectiveness of the police forces in dealing with municipal environment, et cetera. so i mean it's really an overstatement and it's shameful because i think what happens is people tend to believe that there will be some positive changes coming out of federal investigation and subsequent consent decrees but there is no clear evidence that that is the case. and they're limited -- they have limited themselves in the manner which they deal with these things. for example, newark police department is also under a consent decree, if you will. they'll appoint a federal monitor there. but they do so in conjunction with city government. so you have a cooperative agreement between city government and the federal government to say who will be the monitor and what they'll monitor and what the actual impact will be. >> so both of you have made me a little sad because i have been feeling excited all week about the fact that a.g. holder announced this was going to happen. i always have this kind of reconstruction moment where i'm like ha-ha! federal government coming back, take that! but now i'm sitting here thinking, okay, if what it's really about is what these city governments are about, then maybe the most effective things are the attorney general lawsuits about voting because maybe it's social movements and voting and who is running these places that makes the big difference rather than oversight. >> that's absolutely true. if you look at ferguson and the composition of the city council, for example, in a city hast 67% black, the city council four out of five of the members are bhit whyte. that is due to all sorts of, you know, structural barriers to voting, to political participation in this city, and it shows in the lack of any type of leadership on the part of the city council to represent that community in this moment of crisis. so i think doj should be applauded for this investigation. but it actually is going to take more. this is not a fix to ferguson. this is a fantastic first step but it is absolutely not a fix. >> and it's what the federal government can do. right? or are there other steps that the federal government has some capacity over when it comes to local police departments? >> i think part of the reason why you're hearing skepticism not because consent decrees don't work, it's because as you said we don't have evidence. why is it the case that the federal government has to go in and find out how much force has been used, right? find out how many people are getting stopped? >> it's not even routinely collected. >> collected but not reported to any national body, right? so we have the tragedy of michael brown's shooting death. and now we're following that with the embarrassment of not knowing how often that happens. how can you do that and say you're taking race and policing seriously? >> it makes me wonder, paul, if part of what we need to be looking at and if part of what the lesson of ferguson can be is about sustainable long-term social movement in the face of this sort of injustice so that when we have the hand up don't shoot movement and for at least a moment because of the overreaction of police, we have cameras that come. the cameras induce the a.g. down there, the a.g. sets -- but it does feel like if that's it then it's going to just potentially at least go nowhere. so how then do you keep a movement, a protest asflooif. >> well, i think that's the point is that no one would be there if that protest hadn't started and hadn't been sustained. you know, the whole reason that the attorney general ordered this was because he went there and then asked, and he said, oh, there's been systemic abuses. and i thought, well, you could go to almost any community in america and find that. so what we're looking sat an opportunity here. and one of the is a things i thought was that when this was announced, the civil defense police offers, the head of that in "the new york times" said this is politically motivated, had a chilling effect on police, and i think that's just the wrong message to send. this is an opportunity to are for all of us to say this is what we need, this is what america needs, all citizens. this is not a black issue. this is an american issue. we shall all care about it intensely. >> i have to take issue with that. i think clearly this is a black issue. and i think what has happened in the past is there's been some minimization of it or, you know, people attempt to say this is a broader issue that affects all people equally. it does not. it is a black issue because of the impact it has on black communities. and to go even further than that, this is a larger irk shoe than just doj or police brutality, criminality. this is about an entire criminal justice system that is in desperate need of reform. so until we get to the point where we're willing to accept that the entire system is broken, these things will continue. but this is a black problem. it is not exclusive to the black community but it is a black problem and all data and available evidence supports that. >> okay, on exactly that -- >> i just want to say i completely agree with you, it is not only up to black people to solve it. it is up to all of us to solve it. >> so on exactly that topic when we come back, i'm going to just ask a little question about whether or not having a black solution to the black problem is in fact a sufficient solution. carmax is the best place to start your car search.e, great for frank, who's quite particular... russian jazz funk? 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"the times" reported that in hundreds of police departments nationwide the percentage of white officers on police forces is more than 30 percentage points higher than in the communities they are placing. according to experts cited in the article, those numbers matter because diversity in police departments give them more correct with the communities they serve. now, as both a professor and researcher i am willing to take seriously a claim based on research, data, and expert analys analysis. but i'm also from generation hip-hop. and i'm a student. and so i have to weigh those numbers against a lesson i was taught a long time ago from none other than the teacher himself. on the first solo album released in 1993 from hip-hop icon krs-1, chris raps on the track, black cop, and apparently i'm going to get some help here. 30 years ago there were no black cops you couldn't even run ♪ ♪ drive around the block, recently police trained black cop ♪ ♪ to stand on corner and take gunshot this type of warfare isn't new or shock it's black on black crime ♪ ♪ again nonstop black cop, black cop, black cop ♪ more than 20 years later, the teaching remains the same. simply having more african-americans on the police force willed nod need to less policing in african-american communities. they think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. and for many, it's a struggle to keep your a1c down. so imagine, what if there was a new class of medicine that works differently to lower blood sugar? imagine, loving your numbers. introducing once-daily invokana®. it's the first of a new kind of 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state attorney general's office cited in the report found that per capita african-american drivers in the county are 66% more likely to be stopped than white drivers and are more likely to be arrested once stopped. four of the jurisdictions finds from those violations amount to added revenues. but for the financially vulnerable people who get caught in the system, those violations add up to what one st. louis municipal judge said could become a web of dick ticketing, debt, and if people can't or don't show up in court to show it, warrants and arrests. joining me from st. louis is thomas harvey, executive director of arch city defenders, a law firm that represents low-income people in the area and that recently released a report on local municipal courts. nice to have you. >> thank you for having me. pleasure. >> it seems that there is an actual incentive here. a city budgetary incentive to criminalize local communities. >> there's certainly that impression by my clients and our report is based on taking seriously what our clients had to say about the fact they were stopped because they were black and exploited because they were poor and they routinely told us this isn't about public safety, this is about the money. and when we looked into it we saw a lot of support for what they said in terms of the city budgets, city of ferguson estimates that it will increase -- it will have revenue from its municipal courts to the tune of $6.65 million, adjacent city has revenues for $3 million. and those are largely stemming from traffic tickets. >> hold for me for just one second. i want to come out to you officer. i made this point that i'm not sure having back officers fixes the problem overall, and this is precisely why. if there is an economic incentive for stopping and ticketing and ultimately jailing, what difference does it make if the officer is black or sfwhit. >> excellent point and that's true because it would make no difference, and not only insofar as the ticketing situation is concerned but as far as the allegations of brutality, et cetera. when you have an individual subsumed by the current culture they're in, which is the police culture, then everything else is off the table. you lose a certain level of consciousness oftentimes and that's sad. what's happened sheer that you have what should be professional police officers who now, because of the city's needs or desire to make more money, have turned into bounty hunters. and you have to deal with bounty hunters as bounty hunters and be real about what they are. that's not professional police service nap's bounty hunters. >> as i was listening to the reports about this, as i was reading these numbers, it felt to me like basically what we're talking about is local city jails becoming debtor's prisons, that if you're just a person incapable of paying then the way in which that then mounts are enormous, whereas if you have -- you know, if $100 the -- so not that a part of your monthly budget, you pay your tickets and go on. is there a legal question here? is there a way in which these kinds of city policies might run afoul of larger legal concerns? >> absolutely. when we look at the fact that the police department is subsidized by the municipality and effectively these officers are funding their own salaries through the communities they serve. they're issuing tickets, having their subsidies put in by the people who are targeted. and there should be a legal remedy to this to disincentivize the police officers from targeting the communities they're actually paid to protect and serve. >> so this is an interesting and important point that these communities are also taxpayers who are initially paying in and then they're paying in again with these fine ps. >> i think it's really important to make the distinction what law enforcement is responsible for and what happens to law enforcement. so if the laws of the land are racist it's law enforcement's jobs to enforce racist laws. that's not going to change by going to law enforcement, talking to the chief and begging for a change. the chief has one vote just like every other resident has one vote. if we're talking act police reform, it's so important that we're talking act community reform, municipal reform, because law enforcement is a reflection of the community and the police. it's not just its own entity that creates its own laws, at least it shouldn't be. >> it does seem this question of community, part of what came up for all of us watching ferguson, getting to know ferguson over the course of the past few weeks is how many municipalities they are in a very small geographic ve onand the fact that so many of the officers don't live in whatever the most sort of micromunicipality is. why is that and what effect does that end up having? >> well, there are nine municipalities and when people talk about this being limited to ferguson, i would say that's an error. this is a broader problem in 30 to 40 of the municipalities in that region. there's a lot of talk of outsiders agitating in ferguson, saying they were not from ferguson. if you're from jennings, maybe less than a mile from ferguson, so ferguson's policies impact everybody in that region. everybody's policies in that region impact people from ferguson because you could potentially drive through eight municipalities in a stretch of 30 miles. i did want to speak to something you mentioned about legal remedies. this is clear that incarcerating someone after they've stated that they don't have the ability to pay is unlawful. that's something that we're looking into. that's not the police. that's the court system. they obviously have different responsibilities than police do. i agree completely that adding a handful of african-american officers to ferguson's police force or any of the other municipalities is a welcome first step, but it doesn't address the systemic problems that we have many the region with regards to these municipal courts and the fines that are assessed that disproportionately affect poor people and communities of color. there's a neighboring municipality called pine lawn, predominantly african-american, has african-american representation on its -- at the mayoral level and at the prosecutorial level, and there's the same problem there. >> all right so, this goes back to the point you were making earlier, paul, which is as much as this a problem that disproportionately impacts african-americans and particularly african-american men living in cities, as much as all of that is true, the folks who are going to have to fix this cannot exclusively be -- can't just be adding a handful of american cops to the force. >> no. it has to be a complete coalition. i want to bring in the clergy that were very impressive in, you know, the response to what happened in ferguson from the first night they were there. they were praying, they were on the front lines of the protest. and i think this is a real opportunity for them to be organized in whatever reforms happen. they should be in the front, because often they can offer a liaison, sometimes even the police officers are also in the congregation along with people who are suffering from these racist laws. so i want to encourage that as one step that, you know, could have real solutions. >> living in north carolina, reverend barbour and the moral mondays movement. this is his key. he said you have to take these injustices and frame them as moral questions. thomas harvey, thank yor your time and for your continuing work. thanks to all my guests in new york. stay with us because many of the headlines about policing focus on the treatment of men of color, but there is an alarming case out of oklahoma involving african-american women and a police officer accused of repeated sexual abuse. you do not want to miss this story when we come back. if you suffer from a dry mouth then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. 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>> he has been arrested 56 times and has 34 convictions including ones he walked into a restaurant waving a butcher knife. this man is walking our streets. he's a man who's mentally ill. i'm sure he has addiction problems. he need help. he's part of a failed system. but if you took the man and he was african-american, you better believe he wouldn't be walking in our streets right now. he'd be in some maximum federal security prison probably just for having possession of drugs. this is the kind of story that this tells you that i have to live in a community with than like this that the system has fail and in part has failed us as a community. >> part of why i wanted this table of folks together is it does seem to me as a matter of electoral reality, coalition building is always necessary. but even beyond that, reverend, we often think of particularly i think progress i was tend to think of religion and faith as inherently divisive. do you see the possibility of interreligious, interracial, cross class alliances that actually come from shared experience of vulnerability? >> oh, i absolutely do. i'm just getting back from ferguson, missouri. i've spent two of the last three weeks there. and on the ground there is an amazing coalition forming of religious leaders, clergy, faithful congregants of all religious back backgrounds, not just in ferguson but all over the country. we are certainly seeing that in our work. and not only are we seeing people beginning to have conversations and dialogue at tlaesms they hadn't in the past, but we're also seeing the beginning of the kind of sko ligs building that will really create community. now, there are challenges, obviously. we have a great deal of distance to cover because the system really imposes a kind of religious apartheid in this kun where we're not supposed to have dialog dialogue, christians, muslim, and jews and other faiths. our organization, which is a network of some 2,500 congregations is working very hard and we're working very hard to do that. but i think that the conversations, the public conversations, the important conversations, police violence, immigration, and so forth, are made better, stronger, clearer through the involvement of people of faith. >> so felipe, let me come to you then on exactly right since the rev raenld has brought us to the question of he listed immigration as part of the story, part of the reason you are not with us here in new york but instead in d.c. is because the president who is the beneficiary of perhaps the most diverse electoral coalition in american history, just yesterday announced that he is not going to take individual executive action on the question of immigration reform. how is the part of the coalition that you are in part part of here responding to this? >> well, the president has again failed us on the issue of immigration. more than 2 million people have been deimportanted. local police have been deputized to enforce immigration law, which is partly the reason why it's so hard for immigrants to even come forward when a crime is being committed against them. and it feels like he played with our emotions. he played with our lives. right? 11 million people had their hopes and dreams again up. they believed that we were going to get relief. and yesterday he basically said he chose politics over our lives. >> i want to leave on that powerful thing just for a moment. we'll take a quick break. when we come back, that question of our lives versus splix where i want to ask rev repd paul about how he we go back and make a moral and ethical claim about what our politics really need to look like. so it seemed like a good time to sell my car. well, we make it pretty easy. in fact, your appraisal should be ready, let's pull it up. now, how long do i have to decide on this offer? 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>> well, the truth is that we have to remind the entire country that, number one, they are children. little kids with violence in central america and because of the intervention of the united states. but really what this is all about is the president's 2 million people, 2 million lives too late on this issue and every single day we lose fathers, mothers, we lose our parents. i have to come back home to florida and talk to them and say, the president lied again. the president is asking us to delay our dreams, our hopes one more time and we're tired. and the truth is that every single day that he delays, we're going to continue escalating and the expectation for him to actually show bold leadership will continue to increase. >> and, of course, this is the president. who we elected in part because as a candidate he said the fearest urgency is now. he goes back and quotes king. he says, there's a reason why we cannot wait. there's a reason why justice did i leaed in inherently justice denied. this 2008. we're like, yes, we can. and now i feel like well, maybe we can in two months. it's really infuriating. >> well, paul is absolutely right. we look just like the coalition of different faith background and race background and we are being insistent. this is a moral dilemma. this is a moral issue. we need strong moral leadership as well as political leadership. we have asked the president, we have cajoled the president in the house and in the senate. we have tried to make sure that they are allies, brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors. and all of that is intended to bring us to this moment of real opportunity in this country. and that's what is not being covered really well. we don't see them at this point. the political leadership in this country is not doing what we have been doing so vigorously and so well. >> so let me ask you a question. if the u.s. congress has failed on this, and there's no question that the u.s. congress has failed on this, if the obama administration is now delaying on this and potentially may never act on this, the one group that i have interviewed regularly on the show who is doing something is this lovely little church in arizona who is providing sanctuary. if this is the time, if nobody else is going to do it, shall the faith community step up and say, you will deport no more. all of our churches and synagogues and communities of -- whether they are catholic or presbyterian, you won't come from our families in our communities? >> well, this is the wonderful presbyterian church down there that's doing amazing work. and there's a history of that. it's not new. it would show kind of where the -- putting our morality where our seats are, our sanctuaries and it involves that and on other issues, feeling so much for your situation and how much we all of us, stepping up and saying, this is unacceptable and our police force needs to be taking this seriously like taking race seriously, the muslim community has really suffered. >> and whenever the international politics around something like isis reemerge, then you get a surge in it domestically. >> frankly, people who are interested in yes, welcome, stay, inclusion, more justice, more peace have a real moment because the other way is to say, no, be small, be scared. we have a real opportunity to change it completely. >> felipe, i think around the lgbt rights, the president has become far more expansive both in his personal opinion and as well as the policy work that he has done within the administration. oftentimes when it wasn't clear that public opinion wouldn't stand with him, can you make an argument, mr. president, do here what you did with the lgbt? >> yes. there are people who have to live through harassment and discrimination and deportation every day. so we are building coalition organizations in communities and who are really pushing back the deportation and immigration the truth is, it's a moral question and it's about lives and the president has an opportunity to do something about it right now. >> felipe and others, thank you. we've been talking about how you build coalitions. later on today, i'm rooting for one team, that one team is the new orleans saints and, atlanta, tune in and just see what happens. right now it's time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> can i just say i changed out of my usc shirt. anyway, good luck. we're rooting for you guys. melissa, many excerpts from chuck todd's exclusive interview with "meet the press" and president obama. and saying good-bye to joan rivers. and the drought conditions in california. plus, what america eats. the new foods we love and how many of us call it the five-second rule. don't go anywhere. i'll be right back. my motheit's delicious. toffee in the world. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. dad,thank you mom for said this oftprotecting my future.you. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. there was like an eruption on my skin. i had no idea i had shingles. red and puffy and itchy and burning. i'd lift my arm and the pain back here was excruciating. i couldn't lift my arms to drum or to dance. when i was drumming and moving my rib cage and my arms like this it hurt across here. when i went to the doctor and said what's happening to me his first question was "did you have chickenpox?" i didn't even really know what shingles was. i thought it was something that, you know, old people got. i didn't want to have clothes on. i didn't want to have clothes off. if someone asked me "let's go dancing" that would have been impossible. i will reserve the right to always protect the ameri
existence. tyson for most of that party's existence-— tyson for most of that party's existence. �* , ., ., , ., ~ ., existence. it's allowed, you know! it's not existence. it's allowed, you know! it's not always _ existence. it's allowed, you know! it's not always a _ existence. it's allowed, you know! it's not always a sign _ existence. it's allowed, you know! it's not always a sign of— existence. it's allowed, you know! | it's not always a sign of weakness. it's not always a sign of weakness. it could _ it's not always a sign of weakness. it could potentially— it's not always a sign of weakness. it could potentially be _ it's not always a sign of weakness. it could potentially be a _ it's not always a sign of weakness. it could potentially be a sign - it's not always a sign of weakness. it could potentially be a sign of- it could potentially be a sign of strength — it could potentially be a sign of strength so— it could potentially be a sign of strength so i _ it could potentially be a sign of strength. so i am _ it could potentially be a sign of strength. so i am going - it could potentially be a sign of strength. so i am going to - it could potentially be a sign of. strength. so i am going to stand in this election — strength. so i am going to stand in this election. i— strength. so i am going to stand in this election. i will— strength. so i am going to stand in this election. i will be _ strength. so i am going to stand in this election. i will be launching. this election. i will be launching my candidacy _ this election. i will be launching my candidacy at _ this election. i will be launching my candidacy at midday - this election. i will be launching . my candidacy at midday tomorrow this election. i will be launching - my candidacy at midday tomorrow in the essex _ my candidacy at midday tomorrow in the essex seaside _ my candidacy at midday tomorrow in the essex seaside town _ my candidacy at midday tomorrow in the essex seaside town of— my candidacy at midday tomorrow in the essex seaside town of claxton. i the essex seaside town of claxton. there _ the essex seaside town of claxton. there we _ the essex seaside town of claxton. there we go — the essex seaside town of claxton. there we go. once _ the essex seaside town of claxton. there we go. once we _ the essex seaside town of claxton. there we go. once we have - the essex seaside town of claxton. there we go. once we have a - the essex seaside town of claxton. there we go. once we have a full. there we go. once we have a full list of candidates for the constituency, which will be on alex's birthday on friday, what a great present. you will be able to go on the bbc news website and see a full list! ., �* , , go on the bbc news website and see a full list! . �* , , , ., go on the bbc news website and see a full list!_ 0k. _ full list! that's my plan. 0k, chris, full list! that's my plan. 0k, chris. give — full list! that's my plan. 0k, chris, give us— full list! that's my plan. 0k, chris, give us your _ full list! that's my plan. 0k, chris, give us your big - full list! that's my plan. ok, | chris, give us your big picture thoughts. he chris, give us your big picture thou~hts. , chris, give us your big picture thoughts-— chris, give us your big picture thou~hts. , ., , ., thoughts. he is the master of the ark of jeepardy — thoughts. he is the master of the ark of jeopardy news _ thoughts. he is the master of the l ark of jeopardy news management, thoughts. he is the master of the - ark of jeopardy news management, the ark ofjeopardy news management, the big reveal. so as alex was saying, that's tantalising teasing tweet that's tantalising teasing tweet that had politicaljournalists agog with what it might be about. so managing to extract every morsel of
much coverage different parties get will mean that reform will get a certain amount and he, as the leader, will be able to justifiably come if you like front that. there was going to be limits on how much we see of as the honorary precedents, there is now a race in claxton that will fascinate a good number of our fellow political journalists because it would just be interesting. can he do it? can he make it to westminster at the eighth time of asking? also, perhaps more importantly than that, in terms of the outcome of this general election as opposed to what might happen near this —— on the other side of it is his capacity to potentially, and let's see, transform or not reform , s let's see, transform or not reform �*s prospects. and what he can certainly do, and this is happening already as we recall on newscast, is frightened the whatsit �*s out of plenty of conservatives, because they are he is with hisjocular plenty of conservatives, because they are he is with his jocular kind
over. they sat to achieve something out of this one that _ over. they sat to achieve something out of this one that gives them - over. they sat to achieve something out of this one that gives them the l out of this one that gives them the building blocks for a future one, because my goodness five years is one heck of a long time so just getting that prospect of getting stuck in end properly stuck in, alex, you made this point, i was saying a week ago when people were saying, is it significant that nigel farage is choosing not to stand in a seat? well, actually, doesn't mean he can campaign more freely and vigorously geographically wherever he is drawn to. whereas actually, from reform �*s perspective and indeed his perspective now, he has a contradiction in terms of where he allocates his time. does he spend the vast majority of time and clocked in with the obvious opportunity cuts, or does he spend lots of time and lots of other places and potentially undermine his campaign in claxton? it is really, really hard for a small party to win. you need that concentrated