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A new form of governance could end up meddling with your day—to—day work? well, i think it would be a travesty if it did. i mean, honestly, id rather weary, if i may say so, at these sort of armchair critics who opine about editorial values from the comfort of their offices like charles moore, who described... who said there was a systemic problem in bbc editorial. i mean, it is simply nonsense. let me explain the assault course you go through to get almost anything on air on panorama these ...

Committee many said it was wrong, that was the end of the discussion. bbc had to do accept it. bbc staff didnt like that very much, i have to say. but the authority of the trust was that we could oblige the bbc to make an on—air apology post topic oblige them to change the way they were doing things, and it was a system that didnt work perfect. the trust had lots of other problems, and it was then shut down in 2016. richard, in fact, can i ask... in fact, that bit of system didnt work badly. i...

Their reporting on that. its a huge issue that we are not dealing with the complaints of so many. i hear you. we have a lot to get there. i just briefly want a bit of context for this, because richard sharp, chairman of the bbc, spoke to us on monday. weve got tim davie, the dg, he was on the today programme on tuesday. they have both the announced further internal investigations. its fair to say that the bbc is in crisis mode, but how does that crisis compare to bbc crisis of the past? oh, that...

Appointed to run a new system of governance called the trust, and what happened there was that if there had been a complaint, it would be not judged only by the bbcs own internal staff, what was happening was the bbc were marking their own homework, essentially. the complaints were being held and investigated inside the bbc. the trustees were meant to be independent for the bbc. they were not executives. and we had an editorial standards committee and we employed outside investigators, it could ...

What happens, and its exactly what happened here, is that lots of people in authority, i lots of people who shouldve l been the boss of martin bashir didnt want to ask questionsi because it was a great story. she did an amazing interview. he won awards. _ so, you know, and look at phone hacking. - i mean, how many editors defended themselves- by saying, "we never knew." so, anyway, iwould just like to sort of say that l i think that this is- a culture ofjournalism, that when theres a great - sco...

So i am assuming that steve hewlett — a very clever man — knew a lot about whats martin bashir was doing. hes not in a position now to tell us how much he did know, but he would know, definitely, you would know a lot of detail. richard, can i bring you in here, because i know you are wearing two hats for us today. i want to start off with you wearing your former editor in chief at itn hat. in that role, did you ever involve yourself in discussions between journalists and sources and intervie...

Rightly, its a hell of a job to get authority for that. you have to fill in reams and reams and reams. i mean, this is so closely scrutinised. people like charles moore and this, whats his name, julian knight, they have no idea what its actually like getting a programme together in the bbc. the one thing i would say i think the bbc is vulnerable on, and i dont want to sound complacent. i mean, ijust made a programme about martin bashir. you know, he was an extremely calculating... and you cannot...

Martin bashir�*s editor was, of course, the late steve hewlett, who in his post—panorama career became founding presenter presenter of the media show. now, john, you are an investigative journalist. you have been in the panorama office, i was going to say forever, not quite forever, but you have been there long but you have been there long time. we are familiaryour work on screen. can you give us a sense of before you get to that point, before the cameras are rolling, what is the work and th...

What happened with martin bashir was a very successful and disgraceful deception of his editor and of his management. and i think its quite interesting that this was a story, dorothy is right, this is a story that had potential to go really badly wrong from the beginning. clearly, with the benefit of hindsight, i agree with the judgment about steve hewlett, he was a very good editor. he made the wrong call, which was he thought he could supervise it, the early stages of the project himself. by t...

Of course, and... so, either side were playing - that game, and so when she did what she did, the princess agreed to be interviewed, | it should be seen in - the context of a huge battle that was going on between those two sides. _ of course, and i think thats really useful. what i dont want to do is go down the path of everyone was doing it, because we know what martin bashir was doing. absolutely, - im not excusing it. im trying to put it in context. - of course, of course, and thats really im...