Get a jump on the day's news with Christine Romans and Dave Briggs.
the russian investigation. that's now off the table the president praising manafort as a good man, but at the same distancings from his former campaign chairman. >> i still feel it's a very sad thing that happens. it has nothing to do with washington collusion. this started as russian collusion. this has absolutely nothing to do. it's a witch hunt. it is a disgrace. >> in west virginia last night the president whipped up the crowd with his attack on the special counsel. >> russian witch hunt. we got a whole big combination where is the tlugs? you know, they're still looking for collusion. where is the collusion? find some collusion. >> despite all the devastating news for the president. his supporters still revived some familiar chances at this rally last night.
tomorrow, following charges from using campaign finance money for personal purchases. in one instance, buying clothing at a golf course and re reporting the purchase as balls for wounded warriors. >> they believe the indictment is politically motivated. house speaker ryan removed him during the case. he was the second member to support president trump, the first, chris collins, wolves recently indicted on insider trading charges. it certainly shows a couple living way beyond near means. using campaign money to fill the gap. a devastating end to the search for mollie tibb etc., the 20-year-old iowa college student two disappeared while jogging, they say christine rivera led investigators to her body buried under corn stalks and corn leaves. he now faces first degree murder charges, the suspect an
undocumented immigrant. at least one border state republican quick to pounce. arizona senate candidate kelly ward tweeted the lack of leadership and courage by open border senators like jeff flake and john mccain, republican, mind you, adding #build the wall. cnn affiliate w.h.o. reports the suspect worked for four years at a farm partly owned by craig lange. >> reporter: this is not the ending so many in this community wanted, in fact, it's not many times you go to a news conference and so many people behind start someing giving details about this. mommy tibb etc. is somebody they wanted to find. people started weeping very loudly. very upset about the details of this from what they know there was a under surveillance camera.
they saw a black car and what they were able to gene from that is there was a man following mollie along. eventually he got out of the car. >> he tells us he ran alongside her or behind her. then at one point he tells us mollie grabbed ahold of her phone and said you need to leave me alone, i'm going to call police. then she took off running. he, in turn, chased her down. he confessed to this. in fact, he took them to the body just yesterday. so you can understand why people are so upset about this. now they have this man in custody, christian rivera has been charged with first degree murder. in fact, we are told he lived in this community some four-to-seven years, in fact, homeland security will give us more information in the coming days about him. we are told he is an illegal immigrant in this country, again a lot of people confused about exactly what happened. he's telling investigators he blacked out some time and maybe placed mollie in the truck. we're not sure how long her body
was in the location where it was found. we do know it was concealed. dave, christine. >> the next question is how was he able to, was he legally work income this country? >> e-verify. >> how did e-verify fail there? it has only happened once before a category 5 hurricane within 350 miles of hawaii. a hurricane watch has been issued. the full track of that storm next. ker you've ever met. there's a lot of innovation that goes into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. precision machinery and high-quality materials from around the world. nobody else even comes close. it's about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. invented in boston, made and sold around the world. order now at gilletteondemand.com. gillette. the best a man can get. whenshe was pregnant,ter failed,
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heads for the island the storm packing maximum sustained winds of 160 miles per hour. schools are closed on the big island and paw which the state's governor signed an emergency proclamation. this is only the second time in history a category 5 hurricane has come within 350 miles of hawaii. residents rushing to stock up on supplies and essentials at this hardware store ahead of that storm. cnn meteorologist is tracking it for us. >> good morning, yes, they're watching hurricane lane carefully. as impress it gets on satellite imagery, very organized, very symmetrical and healthy category 5 as well, hurricane watches in place for molechai. the national hurricane center is taking this seriously. we expect weakening as it shifts to the north. thursday into friday, by the way, friday would be the best possibility for landfall there. that's when we see the
post-drastic weakening down to a potential category 1 as it nears the island to the north. here's what we're watching, a lot of discrepancy in the american models the european models has not a chance. that's how we get this cone. certainly a forecast worth following in the next couple of days. a quick glance along the main land, scattered showers, new york a high around 83 degrees. >> thank you. the food and drug administration extending the expiration date for epipens by four months to help cover a shortage of the life threatening treatment ahead of the new school year. they reviewed data shows certain batches could be used. the medication to stop severe allergic reaction is available if limited quantities due to disrupgss in manufactured issues. they compared againeric epipen but has yet to announce a
release date. emotions are running high as chris watts is arraigned for the killings of his pregnant wife and two small daughters the father of shanann watts in the first row sobbing feet from the alleged killer. watts seems largely emotionless during the proceeding. he agreed to waive a preliminary hearing. watts claims he strangled his wife after she killed their daughters. an autopsy has not yet been released. a check priest in pennsylvania has charged with indecent assault of a minor. he sent messages to a 17-year-old girl. hugged and grabbed her inappropriately. he served in allentown, pa the diocese of allentown says it learned about the allegation in june and immediately removed the priest. father lonergan was not named in
the 300 reports of abuse by priests. in arkansas a three-year-old baby boy and one-year-old brother on their own for days after a car crash that killed the mother the older boy was killed after a 911 call by a toddler by himself on the highway. a family member contacted police. >> they say the mother had not been seen since last week. the 1-year-old was found inside the car, alert, still buckled into his car seat. >> it's nothing short of a miracle. god's blessing that these children were able to survive this accident. >> you got that right. both boys suffered dehydration but since have been released to the family. you can go home again, john carlos stanton feeling the love on his first trip back to miami as a new york yankee.
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meyer saying he knew about an allegation. but he was not aware of a 2016 incident until last month. meyer later said he did follow protocol by reporting it. smith. who denied abuse allegation was fired last month after his wife received a protective order. after month os of attacks over the nfl and protests. president trump is taking aim at espn. espn announcing they will not air the national anthem before the monday night football game. this is what the president said at a rally yesterday in west virginia. >> it was just announced by esp n that rather than defending our national anthem, our beautiful, beautiful national anthem and defending our flack, they decided they just won't broadcast when they play. we don't like that. >> you will remember the nfl put
its national anthem policy on hold last month while they continue to have discussions with players on how to handle it. in the meantime, that mean there is is no punishment for players demonstrating during the anthem. talk about a biter sweet moment, new york includingers carlos stanton traded in miami in december, he made his return and listen to the welcome he got from his former fans. you know they hated to see him go. he called it quote one of the more special moments for sure. it was yankees fans that got the last two of the night. how about that, guys? >> derek jeter now the man in charge of that franchise, has a long way to go to build them into the yankees. >> maybe one day they will. >> urban meyer survived?
>> yes, i think so. >> good to see. >> you in coordination and at the direction of the candidate for federal office, michael cohen implicates the president as he pleads guilty to crimes and campaign finance allegations. is the president in legal jeopardy? work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests.
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undocumented immigrant. we will talk about a category 5 hurricane bearing down on hawaii. that's ahead. welcome back to "early start." i'm dave briggs. >> i'm christine romans. stunned, rattled, blindsided, some of what our sources say about the reaction in the white house after a pair of top trump aides become convicted felons, michael cohen, the president's former fixer, pleaded guilty. admitting he acted at the direction of mr. trump to keep two women women quiet during the campaign to sway the election. nearly the same moment a jury returns guilty investigators against paul manafort on eight counts of financial crisis. a republican congressional source tells cnn top party leaders are quote trying to catch their breath. even the president's support, see the significance of the convictions the dredge report calling it trump tell hour. the attorney for michael cohen suggests the long-time fixer could still have damaging
information for the russia investigation. mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special count sell and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows, not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to ka lecollude in t 2016 election, which the trump tower meeting was all about, but knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. >> all right. the plea does not include cooperation with the government. cohen likely faces three-to-five years in prison at his sanction december 12th the legal team going after what they call cohen's lice and dishonesty. >> paul manafort found guilty on
eight counts of bank and tax fraud. a mistrial declared on other charges the white house was honing for a fresh verdict to have fresh ammo in the investigation. >> that is off the table. the president praising manafort as a good man, while making sure to distance himself from his former campaign chairman. >> i still feel it's a sad thing that happened. this has nothing to do with russian collusion it started as russian collusion. this has absolutely nothing to do. it's a witch hunt, it's a disgrace. >> at a rally in west virginia last night the president whipped up the crowd with this attack on special count sell. >> russian witch hunt. we got a whole big combination. where is the collusion? you know, they're still looking for collusion. where is the collusion? find some collusion. >> despite all the devastating news for the president, his
supporters still revived that all too familiar chant from the campaign trail at the rally. this is draining the swamp off of there president trump is planning 40 days on the road, campaigning before the mid-terms. 76 days away. >> political and legal implications, let's ask the attorney for the middle district of georgia, michael moore and zach wolf. let's start with the legal. michael what does this mean as far as michael cohen, what does it mean legally for the president of the united states? >> well, i mean, trump's name was among the cohen plea, details, he is essentially involved. we know that apparently at his direction, this fec violation and this crime was conducted.
so i don't think there is any more questions about a witch hunt. he can chant at rallies. there is no more talk about. that it tells me this whom cooperation angle is very much in play. i want you to remember there are two district investigations the southern district of new york and the bob mueller investigation. those were intentionally separated by mueller so it was within his purview as he looked at russia, he didn't want to bring cohen into to it to give the president and his reporters something oto crow about. there is a rule 75 in criminal practice. a defendant can come back within a year after sentencing and cooperate with the government the government can go to the court and file a rule 35 motion and have the defendant get credit for that. the fact that there is no spelled out cooperation agreement in this plea agreement is a stroke of genius on bob mueller's part. it keeps the plea clean. it keeps the separation there which needs to be there so that
there is not, we can expect will be the detractors saying, oh, they're working together and they're the ones in colusion with each other. ki hear that now this is a better way to do it. >> zach the politics of this, in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office trying to sway the outcome of an election by keeping two scandals out of the public eye. how cornered is the president here? >> it's obvious, i think now, if it wasn't kind of obvious before, that he was involved with all of this, that you know these efforts, according to michael cohen, to silence the porn star and a former playmate who were alleging affairs with him. that's pretty incredible stuff. now at the same time i'm not sure that trump supporters out there, the legions of them, in this country, i'm not sure they're going to be necessarily swayed by this, but it could
have a real impact on these coming november elections and if democrats enter the senate where they col things, that sort of changes the pace quite a bit. >> the gop response, do you think we will hear from paul ryan and the likes on this, or do they keep quiet? >> i don't think they will come out and hold press coppss. you can guess reporters will at every opportunity to weigh in on this. >> all right. so let's get back to this notion of a cooperation agreement. michael, because lanny davgs again to reiterate what he said. we ran it earlier. he hinted that michael con, donald trump knew about the hacking of the e-mails and cheered it on. so how does a cooperation agreement work going forward if that is the play by lanny davis
who is on "new day" later this morning. >> he would bet mob mueller know another criminal investigation. >> that is, what's going on in the mueller probe and give him some indication of what he thought he would say and i'm sure they would interview cohen. you can now bring him into the grand jury and offer immunity since essentially his plea is resolved in the southern district of new york. mueller can say, look, we want to know what happened with trump. there has already been questions of waiver of privilege. i was stunned when i heard you say and i heard reports that they were shocked and shell shocked inside the white house. i think the fortune teller at the local county fair could have read the tea leaves that michael conwas going to flip. there is no way this guy will give up his family and freedom
for someone who stabbed him in the back. i think you seen cohen move in that direction for a number of months. this has been a long time coming. >> he was stocking his life and decided to reset his life. this is what the washington post said, he represented a stung rebuke. he staffed his campaign with shady characters, fringe idea logs who never would have approached their high positions but for mr. trump's lack of judgment. you know, zach you get the duncan hunter indictment last night as well, chris collins, insider training charges. when you look at the inner circle of donald trump, the early supporters of drunk, it does not leak like drain the swatch. >> you ha-- swamp. >> you have to remember, trump had won a large number of primaries. he had very few supporters in
congress. people still didn't believe he was going to win the primary. those were two of the first people to sign on with him. you know the same with his staffers, he was unable to find the cream of the walk crop, partially because he was promising to drain the swamp. that's who ended up in his administration. >> michael, it's hard to find good news yesterday for the president. but if this had nothing to do with russia the collusion the paul manafort aspect of it. what object the notion of this as a witch hunt and that there is again no sign of collusion as we move forward? what does this mean for bob mueller? . >> i think that bob mueller was sort of acting as the composer of a great opera. he basically played the first song for us. and he told us who the characters are. he talked to us about money. he already knows how this thing will wrap up. he knows how the second trial will come out, the third trial the fourth trial, how the investigation will end or his report is going to end. so i don't really think to the
fact that the president wasn't a central figure means anything positive for the president. this will be a money case. which got no follow the money. this was the start, museumer is starting to tell us about that money coming into officials close to trump and his administration. so, you know, from good news for the president, i think there is none. i think the idea that i've heard some talk about the idea these accounts, there was a hung jury. he's looking to spend the rest of his life in prison. no good news for him yesterday. >> would appear he is playing for a pardon. it certainly sounded like the president was leaving that door opened in his remarks there. >> he called him a good man. >> the question will be, can trump stand that politically? once he does pardon, the about this, manafort has no more
jeopardy. he will be in front of a garage that bob mueller puts together. he has no right. >> a lot of questions. >> michael moore, nice to see both of you bright and early. >> ahead, an undocumented immigrant facing murder charges in the death of an iowa college student. student. the latest ahead.
more now from cnn's ryan young in iowa. >> this is not the ending so many in this community wanted. in fact, it's not many times you go to a news conference and have omany people behind you who start sobbing about this mollie tibb etc. was somebody people wanted to find. after we got the details we got, people started weeping very loudly, very upset from the details, they started going through hundreds of hours of that video. they saw a black car. they were able to glean it was a man following mollie along. eventually he got out of the car. >> he tells us he ran alongside her or behind her. at one point he tells us polly grabbed ahold of her phone, leave me alone, he took off running. he in turn chased her down. they say he confessed to this. in fact, they took him to the body just yesterday. now that i have this man in
custody, christian rivera has been charged with first degree murder, in fact, we are told he's lived in this community some four to seven years, homeland security will give us more information in the coming days about him. we are told he is an illegal immigrant. again a lot of people confused about what is happening. he tells versions he blacked out some time and maybe placed mollie in the trunk. not sure how long her body was out in the location he was found. we do know it was concealed. >> naumpg thank you for. that it's official. this has been the longest period of prosperity in american history the bull mark will be 3,453 days. it began in 2009, since then the dow has gained 19,000 points the s&p 500 quadrupled in value. just yesterday the s&p notched an all time high.
a few things fuelling this record run here. a slow but steady economic recovery, soaring profits, unprecedented aid from the federal reserve. they kept interest rates low. a bull market ends with a 20% loss. there have been several close calls. close call in 2011. remember when america's credit was down graded. stocks never actually fell 20%. analysts think the bull still has more room to run. bull market marks don't die of old age. there is not an expiration stamp on there. there are a few threats, trade war, rising inflation. overall the economy here quite strong. global stocks, though, mostly lower today, because u.s. politics are shaking markets here as top aides to president trump were convicted in tral court. guilty plea, guilty verdicts as well, china gearing up for
another round of trade talks. president trump told reuters he doesn't think anything will come from it. the u.s. will begin checking, excuse me, another $16 billion in chinese goods tomorrow. >> beijing said it would trike back dollar for dollar. they will settle claims of gender discrimination, harassment and unequal pay. irish has been working to fix disparities last year, bunk samarys to make sure all employees are paid equally. that's important as uber gears up to go public next year and helping prep for an ipo, it hired a chief financial officer which had been vacant since 2015. he is a banking and insurance exec. after one of of 16 years, hi there, romans, animal crackers are no longer behind bars. barnum's animal crackers changing the classic design. the animals are not in cages,
instead, they are roaming free in grassland. the company says it's redesigned an evolution of the brand peta says it sent a letter criticizing the glorifying the use of animals. the new box no longer has them for circus shows. we don't joy them eating them. >> run free, animals, on a box. it is just art, anyway. >> it only happened once before a category 5 hurricane is now within 350 miles of hawaii. a hurricane warning has been issued. more next. how do you win at business? stay at la quinta. where we're changing with stylish make-overs. then at your next meeting,
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now, i'll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. hawaii under a hurricane warning as category 5 lane heads for the island the storm packing maximum sustained wednesday of 160 miles per hour. schools are closed on the big island and maui. the state's governor signed an emergency proclamation. only the second time on record a cat 5 hurricane has come within 350 miles of hawaii. they are stocking up on supplies and essentials. out of the storm, lane projected to weaken over the next 24 hours after it makes landfall early friday. >> they are extending the expiration date four months to help cover a startage ahead of
the new school year the fda says it reviewed data showing certain batches could still be used. the med categories is to stop severe allergic reactions. it's been available for manufacturer issues. emotions running high in a california courtroom as as chris watts is arraigned for killing his pregnant wife and two small daughters the father of shanann watts in the front row, sobbing feet from the alleged killer of his daughter and granddaughter. watts seems emotionless. he agreed to waive a preliminary hearing. watts claimed he killed his wife after she strangled their daughters. a check priest charged with indecent assault and corruption of a minor. they say father lonergan sent inappropriate messages to a 17-year-old girl and hugged her
inappropriately. the diocese says it learned about the allegation in june and removed the priest. father lonergan was not named in a recent grand jury report that accused 300 priest office abuse. a new jersey principal coming up with a fresh idea in school. he installed a free in school laundromat mat to help students bullied because they couldn't afford to wash their clothes. the principal says he suspecting bullying was a big reason 85% of students were missing a significant amount of school. >> they were being bullied. it wasn't just on like in the building. it was on snapchat. i'm sitting behind you, i take a picture of your come lar, oh, look at this dirty guy. >> school spirit, a $20,000 grant and donation of laundry supplies. they will be up an running as soon as school starts in a couple of weeks is there thanks for joining us. nice to see you today afternoon.
become a reality among democrats. up first, a tale of two felons. president trump praises paul manafort, his former campaign chairman, now convicted on eight federal counts of tax and bank fraud. the president tweeted this, i feel very badly for paul manafort and his wonderful family. justice, and he puts the word justice in quotes took a 12-year-old tax case among other things applied tremendous pressure on him and unlike michael cohen, he refused to break. make up stories in order to get a deal. such respect for a brave man. the president took another swipe at michael cohen, his former lawyer and personal fixer for more than a decade who pleaded guilty to eight charges and implicated the president of the united states in a hush money scheme. the president tweeted this. quote, if anyone is looking for a good lawyer, i would strongly suggest that you don't retain the services of michael cohen." let's bring in our white house
house, thank you. republicans, meanwhile, in congress for the most part, they failed to act as a check on president trump, but will these guilty verdicts, plea and guilty plea serve as a moment of reckoning for a party hoping to stay in control in november? at the same time, can democrats use this to their advantage to try to stall brett kavanaugh's nomination for the united states supreme court. let's go to our congressional correspondent phil mattingly. he's up on capitol hill. what are you hearing from both sides, phil? >> as you would expect, republicans not rushing out to talk about this. and those who are, certainly not willing to do so in a critical way. look at where republican leaders are. i ran into mitch mcconnell earlier today. he chose not to respond when i asked him about this. speaker paul ryan said they need more information. scra john cornyn said while this was serious, this had nothing to do with russia. also orrin hatch saying there are issues here, but we're not really sure what else we can do. take a listen.
>> they can't be ignored. >> high crimes and misdemeanors? >> i wouldn't go that far. >> do you think this opens up the president to being indicted while sitting in office? >> no, i don't because i don't think he can be indicted while sitting in office. we'll just have to see where this all works out. >> wolf, it's somewhat of a familiar refrain up here where something happens at the white house. some republicans have concerns. others don't want to weigh in on it at all. behind the scenes, aides make clear how serious this is. they just aren't sure what their bosses should do about it. on the democratic side, you've seen democrats led by chuck schumer coalesce around a single strategy. take a listen. >> the president identified as an unindicted co-conspirator of a federal crime, an accusation made not by a political enemy but by the closest of his own confidantes is on the verge of
making a lifetime appointment to the supreme court, a court that may some day soon determine the extent of the president's legal jeopar jeopardy. in my view, the senate judiciary committee should immediately pause the consideration of the kavanaugh nomination. >> senator schumer referring to brets c brett kavanaugh, the president's supreme court nominee. when you've heard from democrat after democrat this morning, it's not impeachment. many of them don't want to touch the issue at all. it's all about that nomination saying as long as this is an issue hanging out there those issues should be postponed. a member of the judiciary committee has canceled her one on one meeting with kavanaugh. the reality is republicans control the chamber. republicans have the votes if they are unanimous to move this nomination through. right now democrats hoping this issue helps their push, not just to block the nomination on the floor but to pause the hearings
Wolf Blitzer looks at politics, breaking news and international stories.
e-mails, which is a computer crime that was the subject of the indictment of the 12 russians. >> let's discuss this and more with our experts. cnn political analyst molly ball, ross garber and carrie cordero. do you think michael cohen has enough information that would be worthwhile to robert mueller, the special counsel, to go ahead and bring him in for questioning and maybe work out some sort of deal with him? >> well, that's the big question. what information of value does michael cohen have? i have tended to think over the last few weeks as his public messaging continued to go along the same lines as lanny davis just said. that michael cohen has information to tell. i've tended to think if he really had information that the investigators needed, that they would have already been talking to him. and so i'm inclined to think the investigators may not need michael cohen as much as michael
cohen needs a deal to lessen his jailtime sentence when he comes up for sentencing. >> he can get five years in december. that's when he's scheduled to be sentenced. >> according to his current plea, he could get five years. so i think it's in his interest and that's why we're seeing his lawyer out front arguing that he has information of value. but all of this time, the special counsel investigators could have been talking to michael cohen and if they haven't, then i'm inclined to think that maybe they don't need him as much as he might need them. >> you saw those tweets posted this morning. paul manafort, now a convicted felon stealing millions of dollars from american taxpayers in these various schemes. he calls him a brave man who refused to break and make up stories to get a deal. and he contrasted that with michael cohen. so you think the president is setting the stage for a pardon for paul manafort? >> it seems hard to read it otherwise. that's the message. the message is, hang in there, buddy. hang tough.
and i think those are really the big issues right now. >> here's the one problem. i'll get to you, molly. the one problem if he issues a pardon, he could be subpoenaed -- we're talking about paul manafort -- testify before congress. he condition no longer plead the fifth if he has a pardon from the president of the united states? >> maybe, maybe not. some of them were tax fraud charges which may expose him to consequences -- criminal consequences in state court. and so his equivalent to the fifth amendment right is available in that context. and it's very rare for a judge to say, no, you can't invoke the fifth. you have to testify. i think as a practical matter he probably still could decline to testify. >> molly, how do you see this unfolding? >> with all due respect, there's a way to read it that is not just as a signal that trump is going to pardon cohen. if he did intend to pardon him -- >> sorry, to pardon manafort.
he's had a lot time of when he could have done that and hasn't seen fit to do it. and his insistent all along, including after the verdict, this case has nothing to do with me. this is stuff manafort did long before i ever knew him. and, you know, there is a point to him announcing this in public on twitter rather than simply sending a private message. he is speaking to the public. he is speaking to his base and his supporters and to republicans. he is sending a message about the whole narrative he's been shaping of this investigation. the narrative of the witch hunt. the narrative of loyalty and disloyalty. these characters that he's created in the public imagination to say, here is a good man who has been loyal to me. here's a bad man who is not loyal to me and we can't trust him. he's continuing his ongoing campaign to discredit anything that michael cohen says by creating this contrast with the character of manafort. >> i agree. i think the fact it's happening in public and that we all get to see it is -- you are exactly right. it's still fascinating and extraordinary. >> some have suggested, carrie,
manafort's association with the president, the odds were good manafort would not have been prosecuted and tried and convicted. >> we wouldn't have known about his crimes. >> exactly. >> now that we know about his crimes, the president is still praising him. >> and still praising him and the president might also think it was unfair that he was jailed pretrial. so the president may actually believe that paul manafort was treated and has been treated unfairly. >> we've got a lot more to discuss, guys. thank you very, very much. everyone stand by. all eyes now on house republicans, how they'll handle this news. i'll speak live with one of them who also happens to be a key member of the house intelligence committee. plus, the sheer number of people in the president's orbit who are now convicted criminals or in serious legal trouble. that number is growing. we'll break it down for you. one democratic senator is standing by to join us live after she just cancelled her meeting with the u.s. supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh suns the president is, what she
calls, an unindicted co-conspirator. stay with us. this is cnn's special coverage. -omar, look. [ thunder rumbles ] omar, check this out. uh, yeah, i was calling to see if you do laser hair removal. for men. notice that my hips are off the ground. [ engine revving ] and then, i'm gonna pike my hips back into downward dog. [ rhythmic tapping ] hey, the rain stopped. -a bad day on the road still beats a good one off it.
-i can still taste it in my mouth! my ci can worry about it,ine. or do something about it. garlique® helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally. and it's odor free. and pharmacist recommended. garlique.® a very dramatic conclusion to a month-long scandal. admitting in federal court he paid off a porn star and a playmate to prevent their alleged affairs with mr. trump from becoming public during the 2016 campaign and that he did so under the direct direction of mr. trump. michael cohen's admission is shocking on its face but also because it exposes the alarming number of lies voters were led to believe by the president and those closest to him.
january 12th, 2018. "the wall street journal" reports michael cohen arranged a $130,000 payment to adult film star stormy daniels just one month before the 2016 election to keep her from going public about an alleged affair with mr. trump. in a statement, cohen called the allegation about the affair outlandish. then, on february 13th, cohen told "the new york times" he used his own personal funds to pay off daniels saying neither the trump organization nor the trump campaign was a party to the transaction and neither reimbursed me for the payment. on march 5th, "the wall street journal" reported cohen wired the money to daniels' lawyer just 12 days before the election. cohen responded with a two-word e-mail statement, fake news. two days later, the white house weighed in. >> i've had conversations with the president about this. there was no knowledge of any payments from the president, and he's denied all of these
allegations. >> on april 5th, president trump broke his silence on the stormy daniels payments, denying involvement. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no, no. >> why did michael cohen make this if there was no truth? >> michael is my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> a few days later he acknowledged michael did represent him in the deal with daniels. >> he represents me like with this crazy stormy daniels deal, he represented me, and, you know, from what i see, he did absolutely nothing wrong. there were no campaign funds going into this. >> why is he pleading the fifth? >> on may 2nd, rudy giuliani took it one step further. >> no campaign finance violation. so they funneled it through a law firm. >> funneled it through a law firm and the president repaid it. but he did know about the
general arrangement that michael would take care of things like this. >> the following morning, mr. trump added that cohen received a monthly retainer. then on july 24th, cohen's lawyer released a secret recording between cohen and mr. trump discussing the logistics of another payment. this time to former playboy model karen mcdougal. >> when it comes time for the financing, which will be -- >> what financing? >> i have to pay -- >> cash. >> no, no, no. >> on august 21st, cohen officially flipped on his former boss and plead guilty to campaign finance charges stemming from those payments to stormy daniels and karen mcdoug ap. he also told the federal judge the mcdougal payment was for the principal purpose of influencing the election. we should note that president trump denies these affairs with these two women. joining us now, utah congressman chris stewart, a republican. a key member of the house intelligence committee. very nice of you, congressman,
to join us today. so many of your republican colleagues are sort of run away from tv cameras right now. but thanks so much for joining us. i want to get your reaction clearly to michael cohen, the president's longtime personal attorney and fixer. what he told this federal court yesterday about the president's direct coordination, direction in these payoffs to these two women. >> well, wolf, it's a mess. and, look, i honestly don't know what to believe at this point. mr. cohen has been very inconsistent. the president hasn't been terribly consistent in things that he has said. it's going to take a little while for us to really understand what really happened here. i do want to say this, though. >> go ahead. >> and that is that, well, there's this allegation or this pleading that he made these payments. and that would only be legally effective if it was an illegal
campaign contribution of some kind. and fec law is a click margin -- it's very complicated, but i talked with an fec attorney and he said i don't think that would be illegal. there are others who clearly think it would be. i'm interested to hear what the fec has to say. >> would it be illegal if you're running for the u.s. house of representatives and gave someone else money to pay off, only days before an election, these kinds of allegations from emerging? would that be illegal? >> well, i mean, if i use my campaign founds, it clearly would be illegal. if i use my personal funds, i don't know that it would be. i'm not trying to defer or protect. i genuinely don't know. >> if that money was being used as an in-kind campaign contribution, the money that you are giving someone else being used as an in-kind campaign
contribution, and it isn't disclosed to the fec as an in-kind campaign contribution, wouldn't that be illegal? >> i honestly don't know that. and john edwards was tried on something very similar. he was not convicted on that. i think it's -- >> john edwards? >> yes. it's a very niche area of law, and not much expertise in this. but if i could draw one other comparison, if i could. i know, wolf, you may not agree with this. but i think it's fair to do this. and that is the american people hope that, two things. one is that no one is above the law. mr. manafort, though he was a friend of the prrkesident, he should be held accountable. i hope the president doesn't pardon him. but it would be a terrible mistake just to pardon someone because they were a friend of the president. the american people want everyone to be treated the same. they don't want anyone to be above the law. but i think you could ask the question, was it illegal for the hillary clinton campaign to hire
fusion gps and foreign agents to dig up dirt on mr. trump? i mean, this is an area that, again, i don't know we know the answers to these questions. they are something we'll have to look at and see what the fec has to say. >> we know the justice department spent more than a year looking into all of these allegations against hillary clinton. we know what the result of those allegations were, what they concluded at the time. but let me basically get your thoughts on this. it's a very sensitive issue right now. and i want to be precise. are you saying you would be upset, you'd be disappointed if the president were to issue a pardon for paul manafort who was convicted yesterday on these eight counts of tax fraud and bank fraud? >> oh, absolutely. absolutely, i would be upset by that and offended by that. why should he be issued a pardon for something that had nothing at all to do with mr. trump. these were transgressions that took place years before he was
working as his campaign chief. he should be held accountable for that. and for the president to pardon him, and by the way, i want to say, i have no indication at all that he's considering that. i don't know that anyone has suggested that. anyone close to the president certainly hasn't. i am just speculating that if he were, that would be a terrible mistake. no reason to pardon him just because he's a friend of the president's. >> i saw his tweets this morning about paul manafort. he said i feel very badly for paul manafort and his wonderful family. and justice took a 12-year-old case, among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him and unlike michael cohen, he refused to break, make up stories in order to make a deal. such respect for a brave man. the president is praising someone who has just been convicted by a jury of his peers of stealing millions of dollars from american taxpayers. is that appropriate? >> well, look, i think the president considers paul manafort a friend. they worked together. if you have a friend or
associate, a family member, someone that you have liked or had a relationship with and they're going to prison, i can understand why the president feels badly for him. but i don't consider mr. manafort a brave man. i don't consider him someone i would hold up in high esteem. look, he broke the law. he should be held accountable for that, just like anyone else should be. >> in the aftermath of these convictions, the plea deal and everything else we've learned over these past several weeks and months, do you think it's appropriate for your committee, the house intelligence committee, to reopen your investigation and, for example, re-interview michael cohen? his lawyer says he's willing to come back without immunity and testify in open session. would that be appropriate to do that with the house intelligence committee? >> you know, wolf, as you and i have talked about many times. the house intel committee's focus is on counterintelligence, protecting national security.
when there are allegations of collusion between the trump campaign or others and russia, that's clearly falls under our purview and area of responsibility. this is something quite different. this is fec law. this is, you know -- >> well, let me rephrase the question. would it be appropriate for another committee in the house of representatives, the oversight committee, judiciary committee, for example, to take a close look at what has just happened? >> well, and that was the point i was about to make. not under intel committee but under judiciary or as you said perhaps government oversight. i think, though, the more effective way to oversee this and prosecute that is through the courts, through the southern court in new york city, as it has been placed. they are the ones who have the investigators, the expertise. it really is a court proceeding, not so much a political proceeding, which it would become if any one of the committees were to take and reopen this. would they have a responsibility for oversight? they have a responsibility to ask these questions. if they feel that's necessary, i
wouldn't object to that. but i don't think it should supplant the judicial process. >> we know there was a judicial process under way during watergate and the nixon impeachment process, yet the house judiciary committee, they went full speed ahead and they opened up a full oversight committee hearing in that area when john dean, the white house counsel stood up and testified and said what he said about those secret tapes. we know what that eventually resulted in. and i want to pick up this conversation, congressman. i know you are going to stand by with me. we have a lot more to discuss, including michael cohen's bombshell sparking calls for president trump's impeachment. we'll discuss that among other issues. also, there's more breaking news. we're getting word right now that the democratic national committee headquarters right here in washington, d.c., has again been targeted in what's being called the sophisticated attempt to hack into voter database. issues, the details just coming in.
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then his former hhs secretary, tom price, scott pruitt from the epa, they've resigned under fire. what do you say to your colleagues, your friends, your constituents about the president's initial promise to surround himself only with the best people. >> well, i mean, that clearly hasn't happened. not in every instance. i think he does have some amazing people around him, some very capable people. especially his national security team. general mattis, mike pompeo, and so he has had a very good team in some cases. in some cases, he's clearly had people who have disappointed him. you have to differentiate degree and scale here as well. mr. manafort and mr. flynn under very different circumstances. the accusations against them are very different. general flynn served his country for many years. you know, the accusation about lying to the fbi is one incident with a very minimal potential jail sentence. that's very different from mr.
manafort and mr. cohen. in fairness, it's important to draw that distinction between those two. >> all right. while i have you, i want to shift gears dramatically. you're just back from a visit to south korea where you have had a chance to assess what's going on with north korea, the aftermath of the president's meet wiing w the north korean leader. what's your bottom line assessment as you look back at where things are. >> the reason is, i'm encouraged. if you'd asked me a year ago, do i think there's any way kim jong-un is going to agree to denuclearization, i would have said no. no possible way we're going to convince him of that. and that wasn't just me. it was the cia analysts and others who shared that view. but i really think there's an opportunity now. last fall, military members there, and as you said, i was just back from the trip. spent a lot of time with cia and other agencies and military. they were actually preparing for the possibility of war some time this spring. and they feel now they've got a
breath of relief. they feel there's an opportunity for diplomacy and for negotiations which we just didn't have before. and such a good thing for the people in korea. such good thing for the american people. it's not going to happen by the weekend. it's going to take years. just like our negotiations with russia took years and the s.a.l.t. and s.t.a.r.t. negotiations. we may be able to do something that just a year ago we thought impossible to do. >> the president keeps praising kim jong-un, saying he's ready for another summit with the north korean leader. we'll see if that happens. welcome back to the united states, congressman. thanks for joining us. as i said earlier, so many of your republican colleagues are reluctant to speak out on this day. you're a good man. appreciate it very much. >> thank you, sir. more breaking news we're following. getting president trump's first reaction to michael cohen's guilty plea and implicating the president in a new interview. stay with us.
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trump. here's what he said just moments ago. this is the president of the united states when asked about his knowledge of those payments. >> later on, i knew. later on. but you have to understand. what he did, and they weren't taken out of campaign finance. that's a big thing. that's a much bigger thing. did they come out of the campaign? they didn't come out of the campaign. they came from me. and i tweeted about it. i don't know if you know, but i tweeted about the payments. but they didn't come out of campaign. in fact, my first question when i heard about it was, did they come out of the campaign because that could be a little dicey. and they didn't come out of the campaign. and that's big. but they weren't -- that's not -- it's not even a campaign violation. if you look at president obama, he had a massive campaign violation. but he had a different attorney general. and they viewed it a lot differently. >> all right. let's assess what we just heard
with our crime and justice reporter shimon prokupecz who is with us and our politics reporter and editor at large chris cillizza. what's your reaction? >> two things. first, donald trump saying he didn't know at the time runs directly counter to what michael cohen said in the plea agreement. mr. cohen said it was directed and coordinated with the president of the united states. >> this is what he told the federal judge in new york. he made these two payments to these two women, quote, in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office. and he then said it was designed to, quote, influence the election. >> okay. so you can say, well, it's a he said/he said. sort of. michael cohen is testifying under oath in that plea agreement and the southern district of new york, the prosecutors have to believe that he is testifying truthfully in order to say, okay, we'll give you a plea agreement. that's point one. point two, i don't know that
donald trump understands what he's talking about as it relates to campaign finance law. sure, if it didn't come from the campaign, that's one thing. but even so it would mean that he was loaning money to michael cohen as sort of an in-kind contribution to his campaign. that would then have to be disclosed. put aside the fact that, according to cohen, this was all part of an attempt to influence the election by keeping these two women, stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, silent. he's not on solid legal ground here. i defoer to shimon. >> this is being done to influence the election. so what does it matter in terms of whether this was a personal, whether this came from the president personally or the campaign. they made it very clear. and michael cohen in court made it very clear. i was doing this to influence the 2016 campaign at the direction and the cooperation of donald trump. so, you know, i think this is going to probably be one of
trump's perhaps arguments in all of this. he keeps changing the story as we know when he knew, what he knew about these payments. you know, and it's better off for him. he has to defend himself. but legally, when you think about it, he should let his lawyers deal with this. >> one other thing to add because in a tweet this morning and in that clip, he mentions the obama thing. barack obama campaign paid a massive fine. >> his campaign. >> now what was that in regards to? it was in regards to, basically in the last, i think it's -- in the last 2 1/2, 3 weeks of a campaign of a primary or general, legeneral election you have to report contributions you get in the last 48 hours. it's so that it's not backlogged in the last months of the campaign. that's what he was fined for. not adequately filing those 48-hour reports in detail. that's a very different thing than directly coordinate --
again, testimony under oath, coordinating and directly sort of advising him, michael cohen, to use money to silence two women making allegations about the president of the united states. and let's remember, stormy daniels it was 11 days before the election that michael cohen had a shell company pay him. >> i'll never forget the payment was $130,000 to stormy daniels. $150,000 to karen mcdougal. >> you have to assume here because prosecutors have been working this investigation for quite some time that there's other evidence here. this isn't just the word of michael cohen. they're not going to just do that in this situation. so there's got -- they have text messages, there are phone calls they know of, e-mails. remember they did the search warrant. they have all this information, thousands of documents and text messages. so it's a problem, i think. for the president to say, you know, he's just kind of picking and trying to figure out exactly how he can perhaps maybe explain all of this. i don't know. the bottom line is we know what the prosecutors here have said.
watergate. and basically that's what's out there. michael cohen did this under oath in open court, and it seems, i think the president obviously realizes that this is a problem for him. his people certainly realize it is a problem for them, and they need an explanation for this. >> to be clear, what he is offering in that interview and in the tweets is in no way well, 50% of people say this and 50% say this. we're talking about results of an extensive investigation. we're talking about seizure of home, hotel, and office, document after document, e-mails, texts. donald trump can tell a fox news source or tweet out something and make it apples and not even orange, apples to a car about barack obama, but that doesn't change the fundamental facts that we know according to sdny and michael cohen. >> and on almost every occasion goes after the attorney general
of the united states and the justice department of the united states. even though he says you've got to support law enforcement down the road, clearly he's got issues with the attorney general, jeffrey toobi sessions. stick around, there's more news we're following. we'll take a quick break, we'll be right back.
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criminal counts, including campaign finance violations. what's your immediate reaction? >> my immediate reaction is that the mueller investigation must proceed and must be protected to its course. so what's happening is i think the walls are closing in on the president and he must be taking this whole situation as real now. he cannot continue to call it a witch hunt because there have been so many indictments already and his former campaign chair has been found guilty of 8 counts, his former fixer has pled guilty to 8 counts, implicating the president who is now an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal matter. >> as a result of this, you announced dramatically today you're actually cancelling your scheduled meeting with the u.s. supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. tell us why. >> the president is an unindicted co-conspirator and i do not owe this president the courtesy to meet with his nominee, brett kavanaugh, who by
the way is being nominated because the president expects justice cavanaugh should he make it to the supreme court to protect the president. >> your colleague on the committee, richard blumenthal is calling for delay in the scheduled hearings, supposed to start september 4th for brett kavanaugh. is that realistic? you're the minority, republicans are the majority. >> from the beginning we democrats have called for delay in terms of the hearing and we said what's good for the goose is good for the gander, whatever the saying is becau, mitch mcco held that seat for a year, we are asking for delay until this election so the american people can weigh in. we called for delay. even more so now with what's
transpired, we think it is important for us to get all of the documents we need and what is the all fire rush to get the person on the supreme court. i think the rush is, the president wants somebody on the court who will protect. >> let me move to what the president is strongly signaling, that he might be ready for a pardon for paul manafort convicted on 8 counts yesterday, what do you think reaction would be if he were to pardon manafort? >> i think the president has no concept of the limits to his power and yes, he does have discretion to pardon people, but in this case i think it would be all admission of guilty. conspiracy to effect the elections and conspire with russia. i think that's what it would
telegraph to me. i hope that's what it would telegraph to the american people. >> finally, i want to switch gears. a category four is moving closer and closer to the hawaiian islands. first of all, is your state prepared? >> yes. there's already been a declaration of disaster. some schools have been closed, offices are closed, and i want to urge all of the people of hawaii to take care, and also let's be kind to each other. tempers flare at a time like this. one more thing regarding judge brett kavanaugh, he can make this claim to this nomination, make his case in open hearing under oath. i at this point will not be voting for him. >> let's see if he gets other democrats to vote for him. if any republicans vote against him. we'll see what unfolds in the coming weeks. senator hirono, thanks for being here.
my ci can worry about it,ine. or do something about it. garlique® helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally. and it's odor free. and pharmacist recommended. garlique.® good evening. a from the people that brought you the notion that truth isn't truth, here's something new. crime that isn't crime, noncrime, by the way that president trump says he never committed even though at least some of his argument is undermined by his own voice on tape, and the surreal little nugget is part of the picture as the president and his people spin the reality that two more of the former associates are felons and one of them attorney michael cohen tied him under oath to pair of crime. his attorney joins us momentarily. as for the president, he responded today by slamming mr. cohen on twitter, saying, "if anyone is looking for a good lawyer, i would strongly suggest you don't retain the services of michael cohen." lat later, the president turned to the fact and law twisting
portion of his morning, quote, "michael cohen pled guilty to two counts of campaign finance violations that are not a crime. president obama had a big campaign violation an easily settled." on the second point, first, the president appears to be referring to a 2008 obama campaign which was fined $375,000 by the federal election commission for missing certain reporting deadlines. the matter didn't rise to the criminal level because there is no evidence that the misreporting was deliberate. by contrast, mr. cohen pleaded guilty to a pair of violations that not only were deliberate but also according to cohen's statement were done and i quote, "in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office." he bought the silence of stormy daniels and karen mcdougal right before the election and he pleaded guilty to it. as for it not being a crime, perhaps mr. cohen should tell that to the judge at his sentencing. beyond this legal claim which we'll discuss shortly with jeff toobin and allen dershowitz, he the president also says that he did not have advance knowledge of the hush payments, also that those payments were lawful.
here's what he said to fox. >> did you know about the payment? >> later on i knew. later on. but you have to understand, what he did -- and they weren't taken out of campaign finance. that's a big thing. that's a much bigger thing. did they come out of the campaign? they didn't come out of the campaign. they came from me, and i tweeted about it, you know, i don't know if you know, but i tweeted about the payments. but they didn't come out of campaign. in fact, my first question when i heard about it was, did they come out of the campaign? because that could be a little dicey. and they didn't come out of the campaign. and that's big. but they weren't -- that's not a -- that's not even a campaign violation. if you look at president obama, he had a massive campaign violation. but he had a different attorney general and they viewed it a lot different. >> well, again, the obama campaign violation certainly drew a hefty fine but was a misdemeanor not a felony. as for the claim the payments he
this a number of times. just because you continue to ask the same questions over and over, i'm not going to give you a different answer. if you want something further, i would refer you to the president's outside counsel. we have addressed this a number of times. the president's addressed this a number of times. i addressed all i'm going to say on the cohen issue. once again, the president has expressed his views on this matter and i have nothing else to add. >> saying you addressed something, that's not saying you answered it, that just means you responded to it. you didn't actually answer the question. well, the only correspondent who managed to press sarah sanders today, or really press, was cnn's kaitlan collins. i want to play the interchange she had with sarah sanders so you get a better sense of the moment. >> in his interview, the president said he found out about those payments that michael cohen made later on. but he's on tape discussing how to make one of the payments with michael cohen. so before the payment was made. so, how do you explain that? >> once again, i've commented on this pretty extensively. what i can tell you about this
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
taken a course he hopes shows he's taking responsibility. secondly, the prosecutors did a thorough job of investigating the facts. and what he said in what is called the allocution where he is talking to the judge about what he is admitting to, on the key issues involving president trump. he said that he was, according to the words of what's called the allocution, that he specifically was directed and coordinated through president trump's direction the payment of this money to miss daniels and he took responsibility under oath and said that that was a -- an illegal act, because it had a primary political purpose, which is the criminal violation of the campaign finance law. >> you can understand why some people are skeptical. >> sure. >> he's doing this under oath. i know you said you only started working with him because he
convinced you he really wanted to start telling the truth. he did, though, have his own friend and attorney, david schwartz, go out on television time and time again, i interviewed him multiple times, repeating the lies that cohen was telling back at that time. i don't know if he lied to david schwartz. i mean, did -- did he lie to david schwartz? if he lied to schwartz, couldn't he be lying to you? >> of course. it took me a while to talk and get to know michael and his decision to change his life and as he said to me, hit the reset button and recognize you can't get a redo in life when you make mistakes and some of the things that he did for mr. trump he talked to me about and not being particularly proud of or things that he said that weren't true on camera. he is not particularly proud of that. >> isn't that a change of heart only after his offices are raided and he realizes he is facing possible serious jail time? >> sure.
but when we talked, it was mostly about his feelings about mr. trump, his positions on issues, his conduct of the presidency and what i found after quite a long period of time talking to him, a sincere conviction that mr. trump represented a danger to the country. and would i help him tell his story, which, i guess i'm known as a crisis manager to get facts out and to, no matter what you've done up to a point, to take responsibility for your mistakes. >> but i mean, that's such -- it's such a huge change of heart for this guy. he was the guy that said he would take a bullet for him. he was on cnn during the campaign -- >> take the bullet. >> yeah. saying things which were, you know, probably demonstratively false, but he would -- he was an
attack dog for the president, to now suddenly say he believes the president's a danger to the country. that's more than a 180. i don't even know what that is. >> well, there are people in life that have transformative experiences and they're sincere and there are people that continue to lie and are opportunists, and you have to judge which is which when you use your instincts when you get to know someone. i took awhile in making the judgment that he was ready to talk about mr. trump and his knowledge about mr. trump and the disadvantages that he now saw that as a businessman were very dangerous as president. now, whether he's telling the truth or not is anybody's judgment, and your skepticism is certainly not only entitled, but founded on what he did in the past. i made the judgement that i believed him. and i would believe him based on his words and his deeds. >> on -- sorry. go ahead. >> i mean, so far i still believe he's telling the truth. >> on "good morning america"
today, you said that michael cohen, and i quote, "can now speak completely the truth without the shadow of the potential prosecution hanging over him." you said you thought he'd be willing to speak without any guarantee of immunity. if that's true, why doesn't michael cohen hold a press conference tonight or tomorrow morning and just speak the truth? if he has no shadow hanging over him, doesn't care about immunity, why doesn't he just stand up in public and say everything he knows right now? >> well, several reasons. first of all, the criminal case in the southern district is not over. there is still a question of sentencing and assessing under the guidelines. >> but wouldn't that speak in his favor if, i mean, if he's told the prosecutors everything he already knows, why can't he just now tell the public everything he already knows? >> i can only tell you, anderson, to complete the thought, that he hasn't fini finished -- that his lawyer has not finished the discussions with the prosecutors, who he's been very respectful of, and
until those discussions on all the details, including, he has a wife and two kids, period of incarceration that he's facing, his lawyers have given him advice that he's got to wait. he also has the special counsel, who he's either going to be talking to or has talked to, i won't be able to tell you which -- >> right. >> -- but there are a lot of moving parts in a very tragic situation that there will come a time, as i said on "good morning america" when the shadow of uncertainty becomes certainty, he's going to be incarcerated and he's going to leave his family behind quite traumatized, that he wants to turn his life and tell the truth. >> you were just on with wolf blitzer. you said that michael cohen was present for a meeting with then-candidate trump and don jr. about the trump tower meeting. this is important. you also said that michael cohen testified truthfully to the senate intelligence committee and according to the chair and
vice chair of the committee, he told them he had no knowledge of the meeting until he saw it in the press. how can both of those things be true? either he knew about the meeting or he didn't know about the meeting. >> well, i think the reporting of the story got mixed up in the course of a criminal investigation. we were not the source of the story. and the question of a criminal investigation, the advice we were given, those of us dealing with the bee ya, is that we could not do anything other than stay silent. >> so can you say now whether in fact michael cohen has information that president trump was aware either before the trump tower meeting that don jr. was part of with russian attorney from the kremlin with dirt on hillary clinton, either that michael cohen has information that president knew about it in advance or knew about it immediately after? >> senator burr and senator warner read the answer to the question about his testimony
which is that he said he was not aware ahead of time. and did not hear anything to the contrary and that was the testimony before the senate as well as the house intelligence committees and he said that testimony was accurate. >> so michael cohen does not have information that president trump knew about the trump tower meeting with the russians beforehand or even after? >> no. there's not. >> i know you won't say if you spoke to mueller's team. i'm obviously not going to press you on that. you said last night that you believe michael cohen, quote, has knowledge about whether or not then-candidate trump knew about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. do you stand by that tonight? >> i think i was a little bit more tentative on that. i think what i said was that at some point, mr. cohen might be able to be useful to the special
counsel about whether president trump knew ahead of time about the hacking of the hillary clinton e-mails. and it's not a certainty the way he recalls it. may or may not be useful to mr. mueller and i don't want to go beyond my intuition. >> right. i know you have to be careful. >> i used the expression i think what he can say would be useful. and that's the way i have to leave it. >> there are two fascinating details in the charging document that haven't gotten a lot of attention. one is on page 16 of the criminal information document. i should call it. it says that cohen "coordinated with one or more members of the campaign including through meetings and phone calls about the fact, nature and timing of the payments." talking about the payments to stormy daniels and mcdougal.
we know one person was the president. if, in, there was another person involved in the campaign who he was talking about this with, e-mailing, discussing, do you know who that other person was? >> no, i don't. and they're unidentified in -- you're reading from the information document. >> correct. >> underlying the plea. and i do not know that. and if i did, i would not be able to discuss that because he's still in the process of dealing with the prosecutors on all of the issues that still remain. >> can you say if there is another person from the campaign or even who is now in the white house? >> i can't say. >> okay. >> i can't say. >> did you ever ask michael cohen that question? >> i've talked to michael cohen about a lot of things, but the specifics until the information came out, i was not aware of the details of what the government was saying and who was involved
in the campaign of command on the decision to pay what looks like an illegal campaign contribution that he has owned up to under oath, which mr. trump has not, but no, the answer is i don't know the identity of a number of individuals that are not identified in that information. >> because obviously, the reason i'm pushing on it, if there is another individual that knows about the payments and part of the campaign and maybe is still part of the white house, that would obviously be extremely important and a new detail an a fascinating one. the other detail in the documents is that michael cohen charged the trump organization $50,000 for what he listed as text services, which according to the court document, which was, "related to work that cohen solicited from a tech company during and in connection with the campaign." previously michael cohen supposedly had no role in the campaign. can you say what company that was and what services were rendered or was that another payment to protect then candidate trump?
or can you even say if michael cohen was involved in the campaign? >> i just learned all this in the last several days. because, as you know, the final plea agreement and the final statement in court was just a couple of days ago. so, i haven't gotten the ability to find out the answer to that question, either. i believe that mr. cohen referenced that contract as something that he was doing to assist the campaign. but i don't know too much about that, either. i'm sorry. >> but officially michael cohen was not part of the campaign. isn't that -- >> correct. >> so if, in fact, he was -- if he was telling the truth in what that billing was, he was claiming to the trump organization that he was actually doing work for the campaign, which here to for had not been known. >> well, i think just reading it without knowing the details, i just read what you read, it appears that he had a contract to provide technology support
and he supplied that vendor to the campaign and passed through the expense. but i'm just reading something that i don't know much about. i have not talked to mr. cohen about so i'm just speculating. >> lanny davis, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. just ahead, we're going to break this down with our own legal analysts, jeffrey toobin and alan dershowitz. and later, stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti on all that's transpired in the last 24 hours, some of which he predicted and where things may go from here for his client and as well as his one-time adversary, michael cohen.
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not have information that candidate trump had prior knowledge of the 2016 trump tower meeting with russians, but he continued to maintain that michael cohen does have information that might be useful to robert mueller's investigation. in any event, what mr. cohen has already said has set off an eruption for the president from a man he thought was a standup guy. the president did tweet, "michael is a businessman for his own account, lawyer i liked and respected. most people flip in the government lets them out of trouble even if it means lying or making up stories. i don't see michael doing that despite the horrible witch hunt and dishonest media." that was a long, long time ago. joining us is alan dershowitz and cnn's chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. i want to go back to this thing which is, i mean, if lanny davis is saying that michael cohen is unburdened. he doesn't care about immunity.
he wants to speak the truth. can he just speak the truth? >> sure. >> i mean he's raising money for people to pay him to speak the truth and fund him. can he just hold a press conference? >> he could. i mean, he is also under the thumb of the prosecutors at this point, and they may not want him to go public at this point. i mean, they may want -- they may be continuing their investigation, they don't want his story out there. >> mueller prosecutors -- >> mueller prosecutors -- particularly the southern district, because that's where his case is. i don't though what thefully has been between cohen and the prosecutors, but certainly, as a legal matter, there's nothing stopping him from telling his story right now. >> professor dershowitz, you said that the white house, that the assertion that the white house made today that the president committed to crime here today, do you think michael cohen committed a crime here? >> well, it all depends. these campaign finance laws are so confusing that even justice scalia with the help of four brilliant law clerks said he
couldn't figure them out. for example, a president or a candidate is entitled to make millions of dollars for contributions to his own campaign. and if he himself, if president trump paid the hush money, hush money is not illegal -- >> if he did it through the corporation. >> no, no, put aside the corporation for a moment. >> but that's how the money was paid back to cohen. >> well, you know, the question is, what was his state of mind at the time, if he directed the person to do it? if he directed the lawyer to do it and if it came from his own money, that would be lawful. >> right, but he didn't -- >> but if cohen himself made the contribution -- we'll wait and see. cohen himself made the contribution, that would be a crime but cohen. but that wouldn't make trump an unindicted coconspirator. you can have a crime committed by cohen but even if he's directed to do it by trump, if trump had the authority to do it and it depends on where the money came from, it depends on a
variety of issues. >> okay, so, but i'm asking you, if you kacame from the trump organization. you seem to be avoiding what was said by cohen himself, that he charged -- >> can i answer your question in one word? >> what we know, there are contributions that are made by corporations and we know that the supreme court has had a terrible time figuring all of this out. and you don't use complex, subtle, confusing criminal law as the basis either for charging or impeaching a president. that's why people are mostly fined violating the laws. >> okay. >> alan, you know, it's very -- it's helpful to donald trump to think this is all that complicated. it's not that complicated. did michael cohen commit a crime? you bet he did. let's think about why campaign finance laws exist at all. right? the reason they exist is so that we know who finances campaigns and we know what they spend the money on. the trump campaign and donald
trump lied about both of those things on an incredibly important subject. because they didn't -- they wanted to spend the money to help donald trump get elected president and they wanted to keep secret how they were spending the money, because the public might not have liked $280,000 spent in hush money for women that donald trump apparently slept with. that's what happened here. >> that's absolutely right. >> and that's a crime. >> but tell me -- no, let's stop there. it's a crime under certain circumstances. it's not a crime under other circumstances. a president would have the right to do the following. he'd have the right to pay the hush money, keep it secret until the next reporting time, which may be after the election, direct his lawyer to pay the money, none of that would be a crime. >> but he didn't do that. i mean -- it's very interesting, but that's not what happened. >> we don't know what he did. you say that cohen committed a crime. >> yeah, so does cohen.
>> actually cohen said he committed a crime and the judge said he committed a crime. but what you seem to be avoiding -- you don't believe the trump organization was billed by michael cohen and that the trump organization paid back michael cohen? >> there's a dispute about the facts. the president said today that he paid the money out of his own pocket. >> well, he just said he paid. >> if it was a corporate contribution, that's very different. >> okay, if it was a corporate contribution, you're saying that is a problem? >> of course. it's all a problem. i'm not here to defend trump. it's a problem. it's a problem because -- >> the president's saying it's not a problem. >> lying is a problem. >> it's a problem. i'm not here to defend the president. i'm here to say that it's a complicated issue and that if a candidate makes a contribution on his own to pay hush money, that sounds terrible, it's a political sin. i'm here to say, you have to
distinguish between political sin and federal felonies, and a lot of the commentary so far has failed to do that. >> you said that all candidates for president violate campaign election laws. >> let me tell you -- don't tell me what i said. >> i have the quote right here. >> i said failing to report -- >> well, yeah. failing to report a lawful contribution is the political equivalent of jaywalking. >> candidates violate election laws all the time. >> how many -- and how many of those -- alan, let me talk for a second, for god sakes. >> it's a crime for the campaign to do it. >> okay. oh, everybody does it -- how many campaigns do it with $130,000 to one woman and $150,000 to another woman in hush money -- >> nothing illegal about that. nothing illegal about that. >> it comes from a campaign. >> it's perfectly okay.
>> well, that's the issue. that was the issue in the edwards case. the jury refused to convict in the edwards case. that was the issue in other cases. this is the most complex -- >> it's not that complicated. >> and rules. and the simple and most important part of it is a candidate -- >> you're saying out of his own pocket, but there's no evidence the president paid out of his own pocket. >> but even -- >> may do it to prevent embarrassment to his own family, if that's the case, that's not a crime. >> even if he does it out of his own pocket, he has to report that he did it out of his own pocket, and that was not done here. >> that's exactly right. and that is a violation. that is a violation. >> okay. so? >> it is a regarded as a minor violation. certainly not an impeachable offense. failure to report a lawful contribution, you find me any case -- >> willful. alan. >> it has to be willful, first
of all, but second of all, failure to report is a crime against the campaign, not against the candidate. you show me any case where a person was actually charged criminally and sentenced to prison for failure to report and entirely lawful campaign contribution. >> alan, i don't have a lot of -- >> this is taking existing laws and targeting somebody who none of us likes and who none of us voted for, and that's the most dangerous thing you can do in the criminal law, stretch it to target somebody who is unpopular with those who are doing the stretching. that's what -- >> it's a heartbreaking treatment of donald trump, who is so sympathetic -- >> it's not heartbreaking to him -- >> jeff, nobody has forced the president of the united states to repeatedly lie about this time and time again, to lie -- >> but it's not a crime. >> i'm not saying it's a crime. i'm just saying -- >> i'm only saying -- >> i'm talking now, and i'm saying it's really sleazy. it's sleazy that michael cohen
lied repeatedly about it, publicly, he got his own attorney to come on television and either lie about it knowingly or accidentally and it's sleazy that sarah sanders -- he seems to have lied to sarah sanders about it -- >> alan, let me talk. >> you don't have to talk all the time. let jeff talk for a second. >> it is undoubtedly true that sleaziness is not a violation of federal criminal law. sleaziness is in the eye of the beholder and i don't think there's any doubt that there was sleazy behavior here. but it is misleading to say that federal campaign laws are so complicated that you can't know what they are. the whole reason why they paid this money in the convoluted way was to avoid -- was to break the law, because they knew how bad it would look. so, it is not a terribly complicated story. it is a willful violation of the law. >> i got to wrap it there.
jeff tube been, professor dershowitz, thank you. coming up, republican action that can only be described as hands off, i'll talk with the ranking democrat on the senate intelligence committee, virginia's mark warner. we have a question about your brokerage fees. fees? what did you have in mind? i don't know. $4.95 per trade? uhhh and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $4.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab.
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and pharmacist recommended. garlique.® more breaking news tonight. phil mattingly reports that aids to republican members of congress that short of firing special counsel robert mueller, there's nothing that's going to split gop senators and house members from president trump, despite what transpired in court yesterday. it's a position highlighted by paul ryan's spokesperson who made this statement yesterday. we are aware of cohen's guilty plea to these serious charges. we will need more information than is currently available at this point. all the information was out when this statement was made. virginia senator mark warner is the ranking democrat on the senate intelligence committee. i spoke to him minutes before air. the response from your republican colleagues has been pretty deafening. mitch mcconnell hasn't said one word about what's been going on. what do you make of that? i mean, is there anything that could make them possibly speak
out? >> well, let's see how this proceeds, but what can they say if they're trying to defend the president when the president's campaign manager, guilty of eight counts and has got another trial in less than a month that will explore his ties to ukraine, pro-russian leaders and oligarchs, that could even be more damaging to the president, and the president's lawyer and fixer not only pleading guilty and accusing the president of breaking the law around campaign finances, but voluntarily saying he's got information for mueller and my understanding is his lawyer at least said he would come before our committee and give information, as well. we've got questions about what he knew about trump's knowledge of the hacked e-mails and how they were used to hurt clinton and help trump. we've got questions for mr. cohen about his involvement in the proposed trump tower and moscow, a lot of unanswered questions there. so, we would welcome his appearance. >> if democrats retake the
house, a lot of them, you know, talking about the idea of possibly impeaching the president. is that something that democrats should pursue, if, in fact, they do retake the house? >> i'm not going to get down the line. i still -- we've still got work to do before we reach our c conclusi conclusion. we're the last standing bipartisan committee that's looking into this investigation. we're still trying to follow the pacts. >> lanny davis says that michael cohen wants to tell the whole truth to the american people, that he's maybe even willing to do it, speak without any immunity guarantees and that he know longer has this cloud, this legal cloud hanging over him. what i don't understand is, if michael cohen wants to tell the truth so badly, what's preventing him right now? i mean, couldn't he just hold a press conference right now -- >> he could go on your show and -- >> right. >> i don't -- again, the -- i think it's safe to say that the cast of characters that are around this president are unusual, to say the least.
i think we shouldn't be surprised. remember, mr. trump was a business guy that no american major bank would do business with because they didn't think he'd paid his debts or honored his word. so, i guess we should not be that surprised, although i'm frankly still fairly shocked that we've got all of these guilty pleas and another 30 indictments coming out of the mueller investigation, as well as every trump security official saying russia is still an ongoing threat, yet the president still denies that threat, and doesn't even have anybody in charge of election security at the white house. >> the president claiming today that he found out about the payments only after they occurred, that's in direct contradiction to michael cohen's plea, the recording of the president talking about making the payments, or buying the life rights from a.m.i. about mcdougal's story. when sarah sanders was asked today if the president lied to the american public about it, she refused to answer, said it
was a ridiculous question. i would think that would be the easiest question of all for her to answer. >> well, i -- i think the american public, even some of the president's strongest supporters, have got to be questioning at this point. and the idea that mr. trump also tells the truth, i think that has been refuted on almost a daily basis and when you've got live video of him saying one thing and then saying another thing, again, mr. cohen has got his own credibility problems, but in this case, in terms of the payments or the timeline, the recordings, the video of trump denies even knowledge of this person, all to me is pretty compelling that in this case, at least, i would bet on the fact that mr. trump knew and was deeply involved in this inprompt payoff. >> and just lastly, sarah sanders would not rule out a pardon for paul manafort. you said that any attempt to pardon manafort would be be an abuse of power. what kind of congressional
action can you take? isn't pardon power absolute? >> well, i started putting this marker down last christmas, saying firing mueller, firing rosenstein or starting to pardon family members or close associates would push us over the line. everything since then from his performance in he sin ski, where he started to threatening members of our national security officials because of people exercising their first amendment rights, if this president might start pardoning people that might have the goods on his bad deeds, even the most ardent supporters of this president, i hope that would make them stand up and stand for rule of law and not for rule of trump. >> senator warner, thank you. >> thank you, anderson. coming up, i'm going to talk to stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti. michael avenatti. more news ahead. op! reggaeton. edm. what about bubble trance? bubble what? bubble trance. it's a thing.
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day that he violated white house laws. michael joins us now. michael, first of all, what went through your mind when you heard president trump today that he didn't know about the payments until after they occurred. >> well, it's absurd. we've heard every story from donald trump and michael cohen for that matter. welcome to the alice in wonderland presidency. here truth is not truth, a crime is not a crime and alan dershowitz is not on television to defend donald trump. someone defending michael cohen and his friend david schwartz, you were on with him multiple times. schwartz repeatedly said all the things michael cohen was saying, which we know was lying.
we reached out to david schwartz to ask him to come on but he declined. he said he was "merely repeating the public positions that were in the public domain at the time. "was michael cohen, you think, lying to his own attorney back then? >> well, i don't know, anderson s. but that statement from schwartz is absolutely false. he made numerous statements on your show and others where he stated he had discussions with cohen in detail and laying out positions we know now were absolute lies. we have spirited debates on your show. i remember them. i know you remember them. now we find out that everything that was being espoused by david schwartz was a complete fabrication. >> i've asked why michael cohen according to his attorney says
he's free from the burden of the shadow hanging over him, he's free to tell the truth, he doesn't care about immunity. why doesn't he come out and have a press conference? jeff toobin said he doesn't want to hurt another case they may have. do you believe he could come forward and just start talking? >> there's no question that he could, anderson. i've been demanding that for weeks, ever since lanny dpaifs got involved and tried to repair the reputation of michael cohen which frankly cannot be repaired. i've been stating for weeks he should come out, release the tapes, come clean with the american people. if he wanted to do it he certainly could. >> lanny davis said this mortgage on tv -- i watch to get did quote right "michael cohen needs the public's health to tell the truth."
he's hoping to fund raise and get donations to faye legal expenses for michael coen. it's a hot of chutzpah on michael cohen's part to now be asking taxpayers to fund him so that he can then actual the truth. >> it's outrageous, anderson, you're absolutely right. i am confident that if they wanted to have a press conference or come on your show or any other show they wouldn't have to be paid to do it. you don't have to be paid money to figure out how to tell the truth. >> you say it's affected your ability to depose the president. how so? >> we have an actual predicate set forth in the amended complaint. he said our case was frivolous,
had no basis. mr. trump and his lawyers have said the same thing. we know all of those were lies. they were complete fabrications. we know that the allegations are on solid footing. we're going to lay that out for the court in los angeles. i'm going to depose michael cohen and then i'll move on to the deposition of the president of the united states. he may want to lie to the american people but with we want to see if he's prepared to lie under oath. >> new questions in the murder of 20-year-old molly tibbets. the president republican leaders are focussing on the case, trying to focus on their agenda. we'll have details on the case ahead. ♪can i get a connection? ♪can i get can i get a connection?♪ ♪can i get a connection?
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remember mollie tibbets, the 23-year-old student who went missing last month and whose body was found yet. the man accused of the murder was arraigned. the co-owner of a darery form learned that he gave false identification pamplts president trump and his allies have been highlighting her murder when they say there needs on the a change in immigration policy. mollie tibbets was in college. her family put out a statement thanking the world who sent their thoughts and prayers. they say they'll hold mollie in their hearts forever. we continue to follow that circle. our newscast just started on facebook. you pick the stories we cover. see it 6:25 week nights. circle. right now the news continues. i hand it to chris cuomo.
telling the truth. he has no shadow hanging over him. the uncertainty is gone. he has stepped up to the line and he has admitted what he did wrong, but he is now liberated to tell the truth. everything about donald trump that he knows. from this point on you're going to see liberated michael cohen speaking truth to power. >> and we will hear a lot more from cohen's lawyer who you just saw there, he is going to be joining "morning joe" later this morning. after four days of deliberations the jury in the fraud trial of paul manafort found president trump's former campaign chairman guilty on eight of the counts against him. the jury has unable to reach a unanimous verdict on the other ten counts manafort faced. his trial marked a critical first stage for robert mueller's investigation. pete williams has more. >> reporter: the jury found paul manafort guilty of intentionally dodging taxes on millions of dollars that he earned as a
political consultant for the former president of ukraine well before manafort served briefly as president trump's campaign chairman. prosecutors say he stashed the money in overseas banks and used it to indulge his expensive tastes in clothes, antiques and cars, by wiring money directly from those accounts to pay his bills, bypassing tax collectors from the irs. from 2010 through 2014 prosecutors said manafort earned more than $30 million but reported less than half of it as income. when the ukrainian money dried up prosecutors said manafort lied in applying for more than $20 million in loans from three banks to maintain his spending habits. the jury convicted of him in two of those bank fraud counts. in all manafort faced 18 criminal counts, the jury convicted him on eight of them but could not agree on the other ten. of those the judge declared a mistrial leaving the prosecutors free to charge them with him all over again. >> the prosecutors will be happy
that the eight counts of conviction were spread out among the different tranches of things that he was accused of so the prosecution will be able to argue at sentencing that the judge should consider everything. >> reporter: the conviction is a boost for robert mueller. manafort was the first person he charged presumably to force his cooperation in the meddling investigation. manafort's lawyer spoke only briefly, thanking the judge and jury for what they said was a fair trial. >> mr. manafort is disappointed of not getting acquit als all the way through or a complete hung jury on all counts. he is evaluating all of his options at this point. >> reporter: the judge hasn't set a sentencing date for paul manafort but he could face up to ten years in prison and next month he goes on trial all over again, this time in federal court in washington where he's charged with failing to register as a lobbyist for ukraine, witness tampering and financial fraud. frances. >> thanks to pete williams. one of the top republicans in the senate said it's up to
the president if he wants to pardon paul manafort. here is senator mitch mcconnell's deputy, majority whip john cornyn of texas speaking to reporters yesterday. >> would you have a problem if the president were to pardon manafort? >> if he was what? >> were to pardon manafort? >> that's above my pay grade. that's the president's choice, but i think -- i think i'd like to see the case run its course and i will let the courts do -- do their job. >> and in the house speaker paul ryan deflected on the guilty plea of the president's lawyer. a spokesperson told nbc news we are aware of mr. cohen's guilty plea to the serious charges. we will need more information than is currently available at this point. >> a lot to dive into. for that we want to bring in danny sivalis. great to have you with us because there's so much to get to on both fronts with this one-two punch. let's start with michael cohen here. what level of surprise was there
given that he made this agreement, this plea, without necessarily a cooperation nl agreement that we know of where he didn't need to implicate the president. >> my level of surprise on a ten scale is a one. it was a foregone -- >> ten being the most. >> this was a foregone conclusion in my mind inevitably michael cohen was going to plead. when you look at the potential sentencing guidelines in any economic crime with losses approaching a million or more, you are looking at a very, very high sentencing level. the only way to drag that sentencing range down is, first, acceptance of responsibility, you plead guilty, and, two, a 5k 1 motion, substantial assistance cooperation with prosecutors. i just want to stress the fact that there's no evidence that he's cooperating now doesn't mean that he's not cooperating behind the scenes and it doesn't mean that he might not cooperate in the future. you know, the federal rules allow for cooperation to happen
even after a defendant is sentenced. not the plea, after he's received his sentence. so there are many opportunities to cooperate and it may just be the case that the prosecutors are timing things for strategic reasons and high level three-dimensional chess that we can't even guess at right now. >> so then the question becomes what does this mean for president trump and his legal team? everybody is focused on michael cohen, what he may or may not be able to offer to implicate the kate but how does this change trump's legal strategy? >> the u.s. attorneys yesterday would not have given you an answer to that question but you can divine an answer from the rules that u.s. attorneys follow and it is a general rule in the u.s. attorney's manual that you don't name an uncharged third party. in fact, you don't even identify him or her with specificity. who are we kidding, him. you don't identify him with specificity so that he can be identified. so, in other words, you can't say senator so-and-so, but you
might say a member of congress. you don't do that as a u.s. attorney unless you have a really good reason or naming that person is essential to describing the crime. for example, bribing a member of congress is the example the manual gives. but for them to name -- to go into that level of specificity and to allow cohen to name him in that level of specificity really is telling. it means that there is something the government believes that there is something more there against that third party and we all know who the third party is. >> and whether or not bob mueller takes that with his investigation we'll see, especially according to cohen's attorney. paul manafort, the time that we have, we will delve into that. surprised that we have not full agreement from here when it comes to all the charges? >> not surprising at all because these charges are not your garden variety federal charges, they are complex, they involve a lot of paper, they involve a difficult interpretation of
federal law, however, i am not surprised that he was convicted on the tax charges. tax perjury is a very easy charge to make out. you essentially ask when he signed -- when he tested to the part about perjury that we all do with our tax forms, was that false. so that's an easier charge to make. the f bar charges maybe the jurors struggled with that, maybe one juror struggled with that, we don't know right now, but in any case like this these charges are in the substantial minority of federal charges brought every year. it's not something that regular jurors see, it's not even something regular attorneys see. >> now we have his next trial and then a pardon if that's even going to happen or possible. a lot to talk about at that point. we will check in with you a little later. and house speaker paul ryan has stripped california congressman duncan hunter of his committee assignments, this following news that hunter and his wife have been indicted. the couple is accused of converting more than a quarter of a million dollars in campaign funds to pay for personal expenses. according to the indictment the
hunters used campaign funds for ski trips, hotel stays and european vacations. they golfed, they bought makeup, they paid for airline tickets for friends and relatives and invested in tequila shots and gourmet steaks. the indictment alleges incident after incident in which they spent campaign money on personal outings and meals and told their campaign treasurer the expenses were legitimate including $1,900 spent sending a family member to a pittsburgh steelers game. both collins and hunter are now under indictment. the spokesperson for hunter said yesterday that the congressman believes this action is purely politically motivated. hunter, a republican, is up for reelection in november. california secretary of state says there is no process to remove his name from the ballot and the state does not allow write in candidates, guys. >> what an interesting development. very busy political and legal
there on many fronts. still ahead, a tragic ending to the search for a missing university of iowa student, an undocumented i'm grant has now been charged with the murder of mollie tibbetts. president trump says fake news is prerchable to censorship as facebook it removes hundreds of fake accounts tied to russia. as king midas, here at midas, you will too. and your oil change comes with a tire rotation as well.
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i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. update in the case of the missing university of iowa student mollie tibbetts who disappeared a month ago during an evening jog. >> now officials say they believe they have found her body in a farm field east of her hometown, the suspect has been charged with first degree murder and authorities say he was in the country illegally. nbc news correspondent ron mott has the details. >> reporter: tonight the mystery of 20-year-old mollie tibbetts missing from her small iowa hometown took a sad turn as authorities announced they have
found her body and a suspect is in custody charged with first degree murder. >> the identity has not been confirmed, however, we believe it to be the body of mollie tibbetts. >> reporter: authorities arrested 24-year-old cristhian bahena rivera an undocumented immigrant whom they say has been in the country as long as seven years. the crucial break, surveillance video showing mollie the day she disappeared in a car belonging to mr. rivera. >> we first approached mr. rivera yesterday. >> reporter: authorities say rivera told them as he drove he saw mollie running, approached the car. >> he ran alongside or behind her and at one point he tells us that mollie grabbed ahold of her phone and said you need to leave me alone, i'm going to call the police, then she took off running. >> reporter: rivera told officials he ran after her and doesn't remember what happened next, though later he said he noticed mollie's headphones in his lap and realized he had put her in a trunk. he led authorities to a body in
a cornfield. for weeks her family and friends held out hope she was still ali alive. >> she's loveable, fun to have around as a friend. >> to know mollie is to love mollie. >> every single day, just as hopeful as from day one as i am until now. if you are not that, then you're not going to make it through any of this. >> reporter: officials have fielded more than 4,000 tips and that the investigation was emotionally difficult. >> we just spoke with the family and i told them that they raised a great daughter. she was a phenomenal individual and so we are saddened for the family. >> our thanks to ron mott for that report. you're right, it was absolutely heart breaking to see the details of this person and when you hear the sound bites from the people that talked about her you can clearly tell how much love she had in her and how much love she gave to the people. >> and heart breaking for the family. they thought that she would be found alive. >> there was a sense of optimism. facebook has taken down more than 600 fake pages, groups and accounts organized by russia and
iran that targeted hundreds of thousands of followers worldwide as part of separate disinformation campaigns. the iranian effort dates back to 2011 and had ties to state media operations in that country facebook said. the new revelations frustrated some members of congress who have urged both the trump administration and the tech industry to take more decisive steps to thwart nations from spreading disinformation online. president trump spoke on cyber deck writ during a campaign rally yesterday, saying he preferred fake news to censorship. >> i would rather have fake news, it's true, than have anybody, including liberals, socialists, anything, than have anybody stopped and secensored. it can turn around and be them next. >> and on the heels of facebook's revelations twitter also said they had removed 284
accounts for engaging in coordinated manipulation. twitter said the accounts also appeared to originate from iran. facebook, twitter and google are expected to testify at a hearing at the senate in september. the fifth. it is expected to focus on foreign interference in u.s. politics and social media. still ahead, president trump once again slams the nfl at a rally last night in west virginia and you might not want to tell mike barnicle this, but the tribe keeps up their winning ways over the red sox. we will have all the details next in sports.
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we're proud of our country, you're proud of our history an unlike the nfl, you always honor and cherish our great americ american -- it was just announced by espn that rather than defending our anthem, our beautiful, beautiful national anthem, and defending our flag, they've decided that they just won't broadcast when they play the national anthem. we don't like that. >> welcome back. time now for sports. that was president trump addressing the crowd at his rally in west virginia last night. once again taking aim at the nfl and failing to address any of the big headlines yesterday, while also criticizing espn for its policy of not airing the playing of the national anthem
prior to its kickoff in its broadcast. turning to major league baseball where the potential american league playoff showcase between the indians and red sox continues. cleveland rookie shane bieber didn't give up a hit until the seventh inning. in the help of a pair of stellar grabs by greg allen along with cabrera's third homer in as many games the indians beat the red sox. final score 6-3. we go to detroit, a demonstration of some incredible power from cubs slugger anthony rizzo who hits a solo shot out to right while down on one knee, falling over in the batter's box before making his home run trot there. that is power. but that's the only run that chicago can muster. the tigers win this one 2-1. >> man. >> when you see his lose his balance and fall forward you wouldn't think it was going to have the distance but he definitely crushed it. >> yankees won last night. some injuries but closing the
ga.for them. still ahead, much more on the two big courtroom dramas that unfolded yesterday. we will talk what michael cohen's plea and paul manafort's conviction mean for president trump. plus the sentencing for former white house national security adviser michael flynn gets delayed again. those stories and more coming up. yes or no? do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? do you want $4.95 commissions for stocks, $0.50 options contracts? $1.50 futures contracts? what about a dedicated service team of trading specialists? did you say yes? good, then it's time for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. looks like we have a couple seconds left. let's do some card twirling twirling cards e*trade. the original place to invest online. lbetter than brushing alone.ts with 6 benefits in one, from cavity prevention to strengthening teeth. so instead of protection like this, you get protection like this. listerine® total care.
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day for the presidency since watergate. on one side a long time confidant bleeds guilty, on the other a former campaign chair found guilty by a jury. both men now convicted felons. first the case that legal experts say could pose the greatest threat to the president, the guilty plea of his former lawyer and fixer michael cohen. among the eight counts against him are two for campaign finance violations by directly implicate donald trump. hallie jackson has more. >> reporter: that bombshell plea deal means the man who used to fix donald trump's problems has now become one for the president. michael cohen implicating his former boss after pleading guilty to eight felony charges of tax fraud, bank fraud and notably campaign finance violations. paying out hush money, telling a judge he broke the law because a candidate told him to. he doesn't name the person, but he only worked for one, donald trump. >> he worked to pay money to
silence two women who had information that he believed would be detrimental to the 2016 campaign and to the candidate and the campaign. >> reporter: that includes $130,000 payment cohen made just days before the election to porn star stormy daniels to keep her quiet about an alleged affair with the president which he denies. michael avenatti represents daniels. >> she feels very vindicated. she believes that she has fought the good fight and she's going to continue to fight the good fight. >> reporter: the president has said he didn't know about the payment at the time. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> reporter: the president's attorney rudy giuliani tells nbc news late tonight there is no allegation of any wrongdoing against the president in the government's charges against mr. cohen. it is clear that as the prosecutor noted, mr. cohen's actions reflect a pattern of lies and dishonesty over a significant period of time. the president himself has suggested he's not concerned with what cohen might say. >> i just want to know if you're worried if he's going to
cooperate. >> no, i'm not because i did nothing wrong. >> reporter: cohen will not have to go to trial, but faces three and a half to five years in prison. he will be sentenced in december. >> he can go to jail for a number of years and so he still has an incentive to help the government, but if he wants to avoid jail, the more information the more truthful information he provides, the better off he will be. >> reporter: it's a stunning development for two men whose relationship dates back a decade. cohen once memorable blee said he would take a bullet for the president, but this summer signs of a split when cohen declared his family and country come first. now a flip for a former loyalist and perhaps to the president a betrayal. >> if he's still your friend -- >> i always liked michael cohen. i haven't spoken to michael in a long time. >> is he still your lawyer. >> no, he is not my lawyer. >> your personal lawyer. >> but i always liked michael. >> thanks to hallie jackson for that report. we should mention that cohen's lawyer lanny davis, will join "morning joe" later this morning. special counsel robert mueller has landed a victory as part of his russia probe after
the jury in paul manafort's fraud trial found him guilty on eight of the charges he was facing. manafort who briefly served as the chairman of donald trump's presidential campaign was convicted of five counts of tax fraud, one count of failure to file a report of foreign bank and financial accounts and two counts of bank fraud. the judge declared a mistrial on ten of the other charges manafort faced after the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on them. the charges at the center of this trial weren't directly related to russia's interference in the 2016 election. in fact, they predate his involvement in the trump campaign. when the verdict was read manafort looked straight ahead offering no reaction as he was led out of the room he whispered into the ear of one of his defense lawyers and nodded at his wife who was sitting in the front row of the courtroom. speaking after the verdict manafort's lead attorney said his client is now evaluating his options. >> mr. manafort is disappointed of not getting acquittals all the way through or a complete
hung jury on all counts, however, he would like to thank judge ellis for granting him a fair trial, thank the jury for their very long and hard fought deliberations. he is evaluating all of his options at this point. >> now, manafort faces the possibility of seven to nine years in prison. prosecutors have until next wednesday to decide what they will do about the ten mistrial charges. manafort also faces another trial on related charges next month in washington, d.c. special counsel robert mueller has asked to postpone the sentencing hearing for president trump's former national security adviser michael flynn. the joint filing yesterday by mueller's team and flynn's defense both parties asked for the sentencing timeline to be pushed back to september 17th. the court had asked for an update by this friday. the special counsel's office writing, quote, due to the status of the investigation the special counsel's office does not believe that this matter is ready to be scheduled for a sentencing hearing at this time.
the judge accepted the request last night. mueller's team had previously asked for a delay in sentencing back in july. flynn pleaded guilty in december to lying to federal investigators and has been cooperating with the special counsel since then. joining us here on set danny cevallos. bob mueller asking another delay for flynn's sentencing. the delay, does it tell us what role michael flynn is playing in the bob mueller investigation? why possibly the delay? >> typically prosecutors will delay a sentencing date in order to do one of two things, continue to cooperate with a cooperating witness or their investigation into all the other big fish is still ongoing and so they need that cooperating witness, they don't want to sentence him because after he's sentenced his obligations may be completed. there may be less to offer him, although he can cooperate after
sentencing in order to organize everything and tie everything up into a nice neat bow. prosecutors will simply delay the sentencing as long as they need to in order to secure the level of cooperation that they want from this particular cooperating witness. >> you just mentioned big fish. do one of those big fish be michael cohen, especially when you have lanny davis on with rachel maddow saying he might have some information about the president here that could include topics of crime, computer crime of hacking, whether or not the president knew ahead of time about the crime or even cheered it on, could that be it? >> that was a mind blowing revelation to me because that was the first inkling or first suggestion that the computer hacking might be part of the bundle of things that donald trump is being implicated in or not too subtly implicated in as he was yesterday in court. when lanny davis said that that was the first time any of us yesterday really hearth computer hacking. i think many jaws dropped and
people said, i've got campaign finance, bank fraud, all the other things, but the hacking -- because the hacking suggests, although it's not conclusive, that it might involve interference in the campaign or even russia collusion. >> but this can also factor in when it comes to a cooperating agreement down the line. when it comes to michael cohen. >> absolutely. you mean for michael flynn or michael cohen? >> michael cohen. >> for michael cohen. michael cohen, yes. cooperation is an ongoing evaluation. just because we didn't see any evidence of a cooperation agreement it's very common. in my cases you don't want to mention a cooperation agreement in open court unless you absolutely have to. there are two major reasons why, number one, you could compromise an ongoing investigation but number two your clients could be at risk if people out there, bad actors, know that he is cooperating. as they say, unfortunately, snitches get stitches. that's a saying that's thrown around the courthouses for a
reason. it's dangerous to be a snitch. it's not uncommon even at sentencing to go to sidebar and say, hey, judge, we have a motion here which is a signal that there's cooperation, then go back in open court and proceed with sentencing. >> danny cevallos, i am sure it is going to be another busy day for you. >> we haven't even talked about manafort yet. >> i will save that for later. still ahead, the white house economic adviser larry kudlow speaking out over hosting the publisher of a white nationalist website at his birthday celebration. the explanation he's offering over his guest. bill karins is back with a check on the forecast as hawaii braces for a rare and powerful hurricane. braces for a rare and powerful (vo) this is not a video game.
but moving forward, it's time to move in a new direction. and i want you to know just how excited i am, to write uber's next chapter, with you. one of our core values as a company, is to always do the right thing. and if there are times when we fall short, we commit to being open, taking responsibility for the problem, and fixing it. this begins with new leadership, and a new culture. and you're going to see improvements to our service. like enhanced background checks, 24/7 customer support, better pickups, and ride quality, for both riders, and drivers. you've got my word, that we're charting an even better road for uber, and for those that rely on us every day. ♪ the publisher of a white nationalist anti-immigration website was a guest in the home of larry kudlow for his 71st
birthday party last weekend. peter brimlow found td v dare.com in 1999. the "washington post" reports he and kudlow have been friends for nearly 40 years. the website promotes white identity politics through a contributor network that the southern poverty law center has described at white supremacists, anti-semites and radicals on the right. the party was held one day after a white house speech writer was dismissed amid reports that he had spoken at a white nationalist conference in 2016. in a statement provided to cnbc where he had worked as a contributor for many years kudlow says he was disappointed and saddened to learn of imlow's views and if i had known any of that i wouldn't have invited him. i don't agree with any of that. let's get a check on your weather now. bill, hurricane lane now a
category 5. >> what a storm. hawaii has never had a storm in our recorded history that we know of this strong near the hawaiian islands. you have to go back to 1992, a billion dollar disaster, 145 mile per hour winds at landfall, that was the last time hawaii has come close to anything like this before. they are rushing to make the last minute preparations as they get prepared for what could be one of the worst storms they have had in their recorded history. i mean, this is a category 5 and it's going to come within 100 miles of the big island. as it weakens it could come close to honolulu and oahu. you're worried about flooding, that's the biggest concern with this storm. right now it's monster, 160 mile per hour winds, 350 miles away now from the big island. the forecast path, this is a new update just out, does take the core of it just about 100 miles offshore, about maybe 70 miles from maui and maybe about 50
miles from oahu. the winds are not the concern with this, the biggest tlit is a slow moving storm with extreme rainfall. they are saying that the peak amounts could end up over two feet of rain in the hawaiian islands. this red is ten inches, that's the big island. as we go through maui and oahu, everyone could easily get up to a foot, highest totals could be up to two feet of rain, extreme flooding, mudslides, rock slides, things that are typically a trickle will turn into a raging river. we will keep monitoring that. could be a billion dollar weather disaster in hawaii. otherwise some showers racing through the northeast. those will exit for a decent afternoon in the mid-atlantic. el of the country no problems at all. all eyes will be on the hawaiian islands over the next 48 hours. still ahead, president trump not talking about the legal troubles of michael cohen and paul manafort during his rally last night. >> up next, we will go to nbc's
cal perry in london on the president's decision to instead attack america's allies. and how yesterday's courtroom dam ma had with his associates are being received overseas. so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys.
i think he might need some support. yes. start them off right, with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. like these for only $2 or less at office depot officemax. like these for only this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is
simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. all the leaders of nato, and they weren't paying their bills, they were delinquent. i said to europe, i said, folks, nato is better for you than it is for us. i said, yes, i will leave you if you don't pay your bills.
i mean, our allies treatise worse than our enemies. believe it. i have people coming to me, some people in congress, sir, can you get this deal done immediately? i said, it doesn't work that way. i don't want to go too fast. the deal is not going to be any good if we do that. we have to take time. it has to jest ate, right? the word gestate. it's like when you're cooking a chicken. turkey for thanksgiving. my mother would say, oh, eight hours. i said, eight hours? she made the greatest turkey i have ever had. takes time. takes time. with that being said we're moving so fast nobody can even believe it. >> you have to love the chain of thought that goes from talking about trade and tariffs to his mother's turkey and how you have to let it marinate and take time to cook. >> that was the president. that was the president once again attacking american allies and nato while making that connection with his mom's homemade cooking, a turkey like no other apparently.
that was at his rally in west virginia, comparing his view of international diplomatic relations to how great his mom's cooking is. >> it comes as we are getting new reaction from overseas to the michael cohen guilty plea and the paul manafort verdict. for that we want to go live to london to somebody who knows a thing or two about cooking turkeys, nbc news international correspondent -- it was too easy, cal. it was too easy. let's talk about the reaction overseas to all of the legal woes that are unfolding here. has it been muted or how are you seeing it play out? >> it's a tsunami. so the bbc, right, the self declared last bastion of all things that protects foreign news led today donald trump the top two stories, the third story was a million people displaced by indian flooding. that i was go us an idea how donald trump is blocking out all foreign news. let's go through the british broadcasters. itn, quote, trump directed payment of hush money to influence election. the daily mail got everything
into one headline, say it with me, trump's loyal to reveal how president con fired to interrupt investigation and new russia's involvement and hush ex-campaign chief -- >> take a breather. >> that's it, man. into one headline. all the british broadcasters and the people around the world are talking about. viewing this as a turning point in the trump administration. maybe a point at which trump cannot go back from. here at the foreign deck surrendering all foreign news from here. that's it. >> what else could the headlines be on any other day? >> india flooding, 1 million displaced. idlib in syria about to be bombed. iraq, syria, currency in india. reunifications. global warming. i have the baltimore orioles here. ayman, you wanted to talk about
the red wings. >> and also didn't talk about the earthquake. 7.0 magnitude earthquake. absolutely right. something about the trump presidency sucking the oxygen from our ability to cover other important stories. >> the "daily telegraph" has an explainer an the sfro eation on. what happens if president trump is impeached and who will be the next president. what happens if this goes all the way. >> appreciate the insight. >> that, glad we got the headlines in there, too. and still to come a look at this morning's "one big thing" with axios. and michael cohen starts a plea deal with federal prosecutors. lanny davis will discuss the information he has cohen has that should be of interest to robert mueller. plus more on the conviction
of trump's campaign manager paul manafort. former fbi special agent clint watts, former assistant attorney for the southern district of new york daniel goldman and law professor jonathan turley all help break down what's next following a very dark day for the trump presidency. "morning joe," everyone, just moments away. so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes.
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looking for this, but we've talked a lot how they could take the house. and look for impeachment records being written on day one. and yesterday from federal court michael cohen saying the president directed him to participate in a federal crime, gervin everything that happened yesterday, all of the moving pieces, what are insiders telling you as axios about the president's mind-set following specifically michael cohen's guilty plea? >> from the mood inside the white house, from folks we spoke to who work in the trump administration, more buoyant have taken on a dark and somber tone. a historian referred to the broader sensitive incident as an inflection point, drawing watergate parallels. interesting, not a good sense of president trump's mood himself. didn't talk about it very much on his way to west virginia,
didn't mention it in the rally. we saw no tweets since i put my phone down. interesting today what i'll look forward to. the public reaction the president or top aides have to the revelations yesterday. >> as we've seen before, too big for any other distraction that may come into play in? a broader sense, really, a bad day for the president. overall for the presidency, what kind of shift does this one-two punch we saw yesterday give to the political landscape there? >> a huge deal. talk about the "one big thing." talking realistically about the things that could be used for it impeachment. now the president is in federal court accused by his former lawyer of being implicated in a federal crime. easy for democrats to begin, possibly in control of congress right behind me in congress to draft articles of impeachment and house democrats take control become the majority party they
will have subpoena power from these committees, broad power. looking for these kinds of things. who knows what else they can dig it and use to hammer the president. >> a bit of a political bombshell yesterday, corruption indictment of republican congressman duncan hunter. what kind of worries does this create for the gop? >> right. the second house republican this month who's been indicted. both two very early supporters of president trump. house democrats already had plans in the november elections to make this a story about republicans being a party of corruption. continuing to hammer this. another negative element for house republicans facing long odds to hold on to the house. >> nicholas johnson. the two bill convicted felons equalling "one big thing" this morning. we'll read about it. sign up for their newsletter at signup.axios.com. that does it for us on this wednesday morning.
i'm ayman mohyeldin alongside yas money vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i did nong wrong. you have to understand. this stuff would have come out a long time ago. i did nothing wrong. >> is michael cohen still your friend? >> i like michael. i haven't spoke ton him in a long time. >> is he your lawyer? >> no, he's not my lawyer. i always liked michael. >> and are you going to cooperate? >> are you going to let me talk. >> i just want to know if you're going to cooperate with federal investigators. >> i did nothing wrong. >> oh, he flipped. in june president trump said he wasn't worried at all that michael cohen would flip. he should have been. the president's former attorney admitted in court yesterday that donald trump personally directed him to buy the silence of two women whose claims of sexual affairs with the presidential candidate threatened to derail his white house ambitions and it
Katy Tur hosts coverage of national and international news, including breaking stories.
interest the sdny. it does seem odd that there is no cooperation agreement already in place. >> so when you are on the outside and you are a former prosecutor, it certainly does seem odd. when you are on the inside and there are a lot of moving parts, it doesn't seem odd at all. that's about the best i can do. >> is this more like a pr campaign to alert mueller or alert the sdny that, hey -- >> no. >> -- cohen has information? >> no. it's about a serious set of moving parts before the word cooperation agreement is used by either party. but what i have been told to say is that michael cohen is going to tell the truth whoever asks him to. the word cooperation as far as we are concerned on that front is irrelevant. >> what sort of information does he have specifically? what would be of interest to the special prosecutor? >> again what do i do when i'm not allowed to tell you what sort of information that he is going to tell katy tur before he
funds. that is completely false under the law. and rudy giuliani said the same thing. so i'm repeating that happened yesterday. historically, is a sitting president accused by a u.s. attorney and a group of prosecutors with one person taking responsibility and pleading guilty of being a fell op. >> i want some clarify here. a moment ago you seemed to imply prosecutors wrote what cohen said. did prosecutors right what michael cohen said in approximate court yesterday? >> it's a collaborative exercise. obviously, nothing michael cohen said could have happened without the approval of the prosecutors. the information filed by the prosecutors wasn't michael cohen's information. it was a statement by the prosecutors of the case, including mentioning anonymously campaign officials who were involved this this transaction. we don't know who they are yet. so it's a collaborative process, katy. certainly the prosecutors would have to agree with every word said by michael cohen as part of
the negotiations to plead guilty. >> does that mean prosecutors have more evidence than just what michael cohen is saying about the president being involved in this, directing this, more than just michael cohen's word? >> for sure. they stated in their information that other people in the campaign were involved in the direction and coordination of this crime. and that was donald trump that they were referring to. this wasn't a document -- >> why is it not in the plea agreement? why is it only what michael cohen said in court? >> i am not sure what you mean by the plea agreement. his allocution where he tells the judge what he did wrong and pleads guilty and explains what he did -- >> i mean the charging document. why is it not in the charging document? >> i don't know. i know what the allocution is supposed to be about, and that's a collaborative exercise that the u.s. attorneys involved have to approve. >> one other question for you. one other reaction for you. the president sat down for an
interview with fox news and said he only knew about the payments later on. in case the viewers haven't seen it, let's take a look. >> did you know about the payments? >> later on i knew. later on. you have to understand, what he did, and they weren't taken out of campaign finance. that's a big thing. that's a much bigger thing. did they come out of the campaign? they didn't come out of the campaign. they came from me. i tweeted about it. i don't know if you know, but i tweeted about the payments. but they didn't come out of the campaign. in fact, my first question when i heard about it was did they come out of the campaign? because that could be a little dicey. and they didn't come out of the campaign. and that's big. but they weren't -- that's not a -- it's not even a campaign violation. if you look at president obama, he had a massive campaign violation. but he had a different attorney general and they viewed it a lot differently. >> earlier today he also said what michael cohen did was not a crime. lanny, what's your response?
>> first of all, did you just witness the president of the united states misstating the law? it doesn't matter whether it's a campaign contribution or whether it's a corporate contribution or whether it's a personal contribution. the campaign limits apply whether it's personal money or campaign money. rudy giuliani misstated the law. you just heard the president of the united states and the interviewer didn't say, wait a minute, mr. president, it doesn't matter whether it's a campaign contribution, which you said is dicey, or whether you write a personal check. the campaign limitations under the law apply the same. you committed a felony if you knew about it afterwards and didn't take that money back and say you can't write a $130,000 that we're going to repay you. you loaned me the money. paid for the silence of miss mcdaniels and i have to pay you back.
that's called a felony. it's about a political contribution exceeding the limits, whether it's personal or campaign, corrupting an election, and it's a felony. and he has no clue that what he just said was wrong as a matter of law, that you followed the advice of rudy giuliani, who also got it wrong. >> where do you see this going? you were by bill clinton's side during his impeachment proceedings. do you consider what michael cohen is alleging, and if the doj can substantiate it or the prosecution can substantiate it, a high crime and misdemeanor? >> i do. if the prosecutors in the southern district, michael cohen, other evidence adds up to the president of the united states knowing, whether before or after the fact, that $130,000 of illegal money, illegal
meaning above the campaign donation limits, were donated to influence an election as was stated in the document, that is a felony. we have heard republicans in the clinton impeachment say it doesn't have to be a crime for it to be an impeachable offense. i agree with that. but if it is a crime, it certainly is an impeachable offense. and here we have i think for the first time in american history a president of the united states accused by prosecutors of committing a felony. and he doesn't even have the law right by saying, well, it would be dicey if it was campaign contributions, but it isn't a crime. who told you there is a difference between campaign contributions and personal donations with respect to the limits on donations and the disclosure of the donations? so this an historic moment. i don't think the trump white house or mr. trump get it. but this isn't the first time i
have seen they don't get it. >> one other question. thank you so much for your time again. last week i had omarosa on and she was alleging that the president knew about the wikileaks leaks before wikileaks released them. knew about the emails before wikileaks released them. an explosive alleges. she couldn't give me any evidence to back that up, but she seemed to imply that any evidence she had, she has handed over to robert mueller. it sounded like what you were saying on rachel maddow last night. let's listen to that. >> mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel. knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. and we know he publicly cheered it on. did he also have private information? >> lanny, can you elaborate on that? >> i was asking questions without being certain that i know the facts.
but i am saying that, and i do agree with your comment about what omarosa said, if he did know that the hacking of john podesta, say emails, had occurred and was about to drop, that is knowledge of a felony of a computer crime by a foreign power. >> you don't know if michael cohen knows that? knows about that? >> excuse me in. >> you don't know if michael cohen has information about that? >> i very carefully used words last night, because it's going to be mr. mueller who hears information first. >> let me read your words. i am a little confused. mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that would be of interest to the special counsel, knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. are you saying you don't know -- >> i said whether or not. >> whether or not. >> i'm not sure --
>> okay. >> the level of his knowledge. but i did say it's my observation that what he knows will be of interest. and i said whether or not mr. trump new ahead of time will remain to be seen. >> lanny davis. lanny, thank you so much for your time. we do appreciate it. >> thank you. wish i could answer your questions a little more directly. >> maybe soon. come on when you can. >> thank you. >> and how will the white house respond the day after? we are moments away from a press briefing. we will bring it to you live. we know what gop lawmakers on capitol hill are saying in the meantime. they are mimicking the president. no collusion. and coming up, video games, tequila shots, trips to italy, a plane ticket for his pet bunny. some in the gop are worried their party looks more like a criminal enterprise. so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes. start them off right, with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long.
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2016. on the left, congressman chris collins who was indicted on felony charges less than two weeks ago. he was the first to endorse donald trump for president. and then on the right side, that's congressman duncan hunter. he was the second sitting member of do know support donald trump for president and now today he too has been indicted on multiple felony charges. who was third? as i say, congressman duncan hunter probably considers himself lucky today. if you're going to get indicted, today was probably a pretty good day. because the news of his indictment arrived on a day like no other. in this remarkable scandal ridden candidacy. we actually called michael beschloss to ask if there's anything like this. has there ever been a single day in the news for any u.s. president that held similar
come one in u.s. history would be march 1st, 1974. that produced this headline the next day. march 1st, 1974, was the day a grand jury indicted richard nixon's campaign manage here he had named attorney general and the president's top two aides in the white house and a bunch of other white house nixon staffers. the critical catastrophe for nixon that day, march 1st, 1974, is that nixon himself was named as an unindicted co-conspirator by the grand jury in that criminal behavior. and those findings of criminal activity by president nixon, those were ultimately handed over to congress for them on impeach him. tonight president trump is not facing impeachment. he is doing a rally in west virginia. but his campaign chairman and his long time personal lawyer are both convicted felons, as of tonight. and there is tremendous interest
him guilty. on those eight guilty verdicts, the defense could appeal. so we'll get more expert advice on this. it turned out the whole story about the federal savings bank in chicago worked out and how the jury viewed paul manafort basically offering trump administration jobs to the ceo of that bank in exchange for him offering manafort millions of dollars in loans, the way the jury saw that turns out to be fascinating. there are three things on watch when it comes to manafort now. specifically, potentially the president's own fate as it relates to paul manafort. three things to watch. the first two are logistical. number one, will manafort's defense team feel eight felony choornlgs which he was found guilty? also, will the government try on charge manafort again to the other ten felonies on which there was no verdict?
so logistics. is this trial over? are these 18 counts settled? or will they continue to be litigated? that's one thing to watch. the second logistical thing to watch. after these convictions today on these eight felony charges, how much better or worse does manafort's fate look for his next felony trial which after all, starts in less than a month in federal court in d.c. this was manafort's trial in virginia. he is about to go on trial in less than a month in d.c. and tonight is the deadline for prosecutors to list that they are planning to use next month. we are expecting over the course of this evening, sometime tonight torsion get access to that evidence list. we're expecting that it will contain well over 1,000 individual pieces of evidence that prosecutors will use in their case against manafort next month. when we get evidence list tonight, presumably it will land
like an anvil on the manafort defense team. right? it will come just hours after the client was convicted on eight felony counts in a different federal court today. >> two things on watch. it will be fascinating to watch. the third thing on watch here when it comes to manafort. with these, the trump campaign manager is facing a maximum sentence of 80 years in prison. now, he won't get 80 years in prison. realistically, according to the sentencing guidelines, he is looking at real-time, maybe seven to nine years. and he is about to face another felony trial against the same special counsel's office who just got him could not voiktd eight felonies and that's coming up in less than a month. you see where this is going. the last thing to watch when it
Rachel Maddow takes a look at the day's top political news stories.
face in his new trial next month. we're going on get some expert advice on this. whatever math paul manafort has done in his head about whether or not he wanted to flip and help prosecutors and any other work on any other cases, including cases potentially involving the president, that math might have changed today when the jury pronounced him guilty. so it is half of what is looming today. does paul manafort feel differently enough that he might be willing to talk? that's half of what is looming. and then there is the president's personal lawyer. the judge. let's begin then with an initial appearance. mr. cohen i am district judge william pauley. the purpose of this proceeding is to inform you of certain rights you have. to inform of, to decide under what conditions you should be released. first, you have the right to
glass of glenlivet 12 on the rocks. the judge, all right. is it your custom to do that? no, your honor. the judge, all right. have you had anything since that time? no, ushs. is your mind clear today? yes. are you feeling all right? yes, sir. are you represented by counsel? i will. who are your attorneys? guy pet littlo and amy. do you have any doubt to your client's competence to plead at this time? i do not, yurns. your attorney has informed me that you wish to enter a plea of guilty. do you wish to enter a plea of guilty? defendant, yes, sir. the judge, have you had a full opportunity on discuss your case with your attorney and to discuss the consequences of a plea of guilty? yes, your honor. judge, are you satisfied with your attorneys, mr. petrillo in this matter? very much, sir. on the basis of mr. cohen's
responses to my questions and the observation of his demeanor this afternoon, i find that he is fully dpoenlt enter an informed plea at this time. warned that he will be prosecuted for perjury if he gives any false statements at this hearing today. they then go through it. there is a long back and forth at this point about cohen understanding the nature his plea deal and the charges against him and the clear mind with which he is pleading guilty. he pleads guilty to eight felony charges today. felony. at a evasion in five separate charges. making a false statement to a financial institution to get a loan that he shouldn't have otherwise gotten and then last two charges blew the proverbial lid off the place today. as they're going through all the charges, between judge and the attorneys and michael cohen, just saying yes, your honor, a lot as they're going through stuff. there comes this moment the today's hearing when the judge
asked michael cohen to explain in his own words the crimes he has committed and to which he is pleading guilty. the judge. mr. cohen, would you please tell me what you did in question, each of the crimes to which you are entering a plea of guilty? michael cohen, yes, your honor. may i stand? the judge. you may. the defendant, thank you, sir. michael cohen. i also just jotted down some notes so i can keep my dpoeks is address this court in proper fashion. as to counts one through five, i evaded paying substantial taxes on certain income i received that i knew was not reflected on the return and that i caused to be filed. i won't read all the details. but he says how he evaded charges. he lied by omission to a bank where he applied for a loan. we learned he used it to pay off stormy daniels. we'll have more only later. with you then we get to the part
that led to front pages like this. this is the front page of the "new york times." cohen pleads guilty implicating president. that's the front page of the "new york times." here's where that comes from in court today. ready? okay. michael cohen. thank you, your honor. as to count number seven, on or about the summer of 2016 in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, i and the ceo of a media company, at the request of the candidate, worked together to keep an individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and to the campaign from publicly disclosing this information. after a number of discussions, we eventually accomplished the goal by the media company entering into a contract with the individual under which she received compensation of $150,000. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principle purpose of influencing the election. the federal candidate in this
case is the president of the united states. the election is the mexielectio that made him president of the united states. and this is the president's attorney, saying under oath, that the president directed this illegal payoff during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the election. this count, number seven, is the karen mcdougal case. the woman who used to model for "playboy" magazine who said she had a long running affair with the president. michael cohen said in court today that the president directed him, michael cohen, and the ceo of a media company, which appears to be david pecker, the ceo of america media, the owner of "national enquirer," michael cohen said the president directed two of them to arrange a payment of $150,000 to karen mcdougal during the election. specifically for the purpose of influencing the election. now, that is something that has been reported in detail. that you have heard about over
months. that is now being charged as a felony. as an illegal corporate contribution to the president's campaign. one that, according to this court proceeding today, was directed by the president himself. now, michael cohen is needing guilty to his own role in that but he is directly implicating both the president of the united states and the executive david pecker in that same criminal act. so we'll have more on that in a second. here's the next part. your honor, as to count number eight, on or about october of 2016, the month before the election, in coordination with and at the direction of the same candidate, i arranged to make a payment to a second individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and the campaign to keep the individual from disclosing the information.
to accomplish this i used a company that was under my control to make a pay. $130,000. the moneys i advanced were later repaid to me by the candidate. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principal purpose of influencing the election. the reason he is saying, i did this in manhattan is because he is being charged by federal prosecutors. that's establishing their jurisdiction to charge with these felonies. when he says he participated in this conduct for the principal purpose of this election, that is identifying it as a campaign-related felony. a campaign finance felony. so the president's lawyer has pled guilty. in so doing, he implicates the president personfully arranging two illegal payoffs during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the outcome of the campaign. mr. cohen, michael cohen, will be going to jail for this
conduct. but he has implicated the president in this criminal act as well. and then after did he that, federal prosecutors told the judge they have lots of evidence to prove this crime. the judge asked the prosecutors to summarize its evidence on these charges that cohen has just described. the prosecution goes through all the evidence. when it comes to the last two bomb shells, the felony charges on which michael cohen implicates the president personally, he stands up and gives bullet points that are a list of evidence that the government has dloektd prove the charges. quote. from search warrants on mr. cohen's premises including hard company documents, seized devitd and audio recordings. messages sent and e-mails. via subpoena including records from the corpse referenced, and
also referenced in the information. finally, we on offer testimony of witnesses including witnesses involved in the transactions in question, who communicated with the defendant. now, that's the list of evidence that government says it has compiled to prove that case. they explain that they've got all that evidence to the judge today in court. but the government is not going to put that evidence on display in a trial against michael cohen. because there's not going to be a trial because cohen has pled guilty. so cohen's plea and the court filings from prosecutors in this case, they implicate cohen. they also implicate the president in this same behavior. cohen's guilty plea spelled it out, out loud in the transcript that i just read to you. it is also spelled out in even more detail in the criminal information document which the prosecutor was just referencing there. the criminal information
document became public later this evening. it spells it out in even more detail. it describes one or more messages of the trump campaign coordinating with michael cohen to make these illegal payoffs. and this is interesting to me. hasn't received a lot of attention today but i think it is worth focusing on. the president's company, his business, the trump organization, also appears to be implicated in the description of this crime. because it is the president's company that is apparently the entity that reimbursed michael cohen for the illegal payoff. it was $130,000 illegal payoff to stormy daniels. they not only reimbursed him for the payoff. they also paid off a lot more on top of the reimbursement. it is spelled out that michael cohen put out this $130,000 as the payoff but then trump organization, the president's business, paid him back. not $130,000. they paid him back over $420,000. for having provided that
service. and that service, of course, was a felony for which mr. cohen will now go to prison. they paid him a lot of money to do that. i don't know if you can indict a president but i'm pretty sure you can indict president's company. so a big day. the indicted congressman today, congressman duncan hunter is very lucky to have had his criminal news land like a rain drop in this ocean of criminal news today about the president's campaign chair and his long time personal lawyer. as of today, both convicted felons. the last day like this, march 1st, 1974, saw mr. nixon named as an unindicted criminal conspirator. today there was no grand jury to do that kind of naming. but in the court filings, the president is implicated just as overtly as nixon ever was.
so now i have questions. i've laid out my questions on manafort. basically, how much time is manafort looking at? will that change his mind on flipping and cooperating? pretty simple. watch this space for that. including watch tonight for the publication of that list of evidence from the prosecution. manafort. but on cohen, tell me this. cohen and federal prosecutors in the federal district of new york, they implicate the president explicitly today in campaign violations with the secret payoffs. that's not the same thing as indicting the president for those charges. but what's the distance between implication by prosecutors, this explicit implication today, and indictment? like how do you travel that distance? and can you travel that distance? what happens now that the president is named as someone involved in the commission of multiple felonies? where does that go?
second question, michael cohen is not required to cooperate with prosecutors as a condition of his plea agreement. why not? did michael cohen not want that? what does that mean? and third, where is the special counsel? robert mueller and his prosecutors at the special counsel's office reportedly initiated this investigation of michael cohen but then handed it off to the regular public corruption investigators in the southern district in new york. the special counsel and his team of prosecutors appear nowhere in the hearing or in any of the hearings about michael cohen. does the special counsel's office want to talk on michael cohen? have they talked on michael cohen? does michael cohen have now or did he ever have an option to reduce his prison time but talking to the special counsel's office about what he knows that might be help envelop their other ongoing investigations? i mean, cohen implicated the
president and two felonies today. if cohen has more to say beyond implicating the president, should we expect that he will have more to say? i think we may be able to get an answer on that from a guest you will be surprised to see here. next. insurance that won't replace the full value of your new car? you'd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. i'm gonna regret that. with liberty mutual new car replacement we'll replace the full value of your car.
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show. i watch you all the time and i appreciate the invitation. >> thank you for saying that. i appreciate it. i know you have a lot of other things to be doing tonight. your client pled guilty to eight counts today. it was a standard plea agreement as far as we can tell. not a cooperation agreement. was that an option for you and your client? why wasn't there any cooperation deal? >> well, there are certain things i can answer directly. so let me try answer this indirectly. when i decided to represent mr. cohen, it was because he committed to me early on in many conversations that he wanted to tell the truth about donald trump. and we talked about what he knew about donald trump. this was one of the subjects. so whether i used the word cooperation or not, my colleague will know the answer to your question. it is truth that michael cohen is committed to and it is truth that so threatens the president
of the united states who has consistently lied in fact on this issue, denied knowing about these payments until rudolph giuliani, his lawyer, waiving attorney-client privilege, said he knew about the payments, directly contrary to the lie on air force one. to answer your question, mr. cohen is dedicated to telling the truth. if that amounts to the word cooperation, i'll leave that to my cohort, the great criminal defense lawyer to explain. >> the special counsel's office, special counsel's robert mueller and any of the prosecutors don't appear anywhere in the court filings today. they weren't discussed in court. that makes them a looming presence in this story and what we know about the future of your client. the future of michael cohen. is there anything to do with the special counsel that was involved in this plea agreement
today? has the special counsel approached michael cohen already about whether he would like to speak some of that truth to their inquiry in addition to what he's just faced in sdny? >> so, i can't tell you the answer to that about contacts between michael and the special counsel. but i can tell you that mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell special counsel all that he knows. not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the american democracy system in the 2016 election chflt the trump tower meeting was all about. but also, knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. we know that he publicly cheered
it on. did he also have private information? one thing to say about michael cohen, if i might, is that he's been through a very tough day. his wife and his two children and his family are, i would say, suffering from this type of event. so is michael. but in one very important respect, michael is relieved. he is a good man with a good heart that i discovered. but he is relieved and liberated, is the word i would say to your audience. because now he has no shadow hanging over him. the uncertainty is gone. he has stepped up to the line and admitted what did he wrong but he is now liberated to tell truth. everything about donald trump that he knows. that led him to approach someone like me, who he knows politically doesn't share anything with president trump. and from this point on, you're going to see liberated michael
cohen speaking truth to power. >> i want to underscore what you referenced, that mr. cohen has information about the president and his advance knowledge of the crime of hacking during the campaign. and you're saying that mr. cohen, whether or not he has spoken to the special counsel's office, he would be happy to discuss that with the special counsel, separate and apart from everything that happen today in the southern district of new york. >> i hate to be overly legalistic with you, but i'm not going to confirm what knowledge michael has. i will confirm that mr. mueller, who i greatly respect, will have a lot of interest in what michael has to say. and by the way, on just the crime of directing somebody to commit a crime, as you pointed out in your opening. it was a crime for president trump to direct michael cohen to the crime of a campaign finance
donation that exceeded the legal limitations. there is something else interesting that isn't so obvious. why didn't president trump do this himself? why didn't he write or sign the check himself? was he covering up because he knew that there was something wrong in what he was doing so he directed his lawyer to do something that he didn't want anybody to know that he did? i think the answer is obvious. there is a cover-up here by our now president of the united states that is undeniable. he directed michael cohen to make this payment of $130,000. he didn't have the courage, or at least, didn't want to expose himself politically so soon before the election. so he directed his lawyer to do that which he was not willing to do. >> thank you for being here. i hope you'll come back. much appreciated. to that last point that he was
making about president trump directing michael cohen to make the payments instead of making them himself, one of the thing we learned is that when trump directed cohen to do it, it could not have been out of convenience. one of the other felonies to which michael cohen pled today was lying the a bank in order to get a $130,000 home equity loan which is what he tapped to make the payment to stormy daniels which president trump directed him to make. so it is not like michael cohen was the easy choice. towed commit another felony to scratch the cash together to make that payment in the president's direction. he did get paid back handsomely for it but now he will go to jail for it. the question what will happen to the president for it? more to get to. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool.
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office. that the fbi agents treated him very fairly then and he felt they treated him very fairly again in this deliberation and these talks. >> i feel like with we step back from the time line that we've all been living in. you've had so much interesting reporting over the weeks and months about cohen. some others have had, reporting along the same lines about cohen. about his feelings about the president. about his likelihood that he would cooperate with prosecutors. that he would be willing to essentially flip after his longstanding relationship with donald trump. after reading all of that, you're now confirming today what seemed quite apparently in court. you've confirmed it tonight. that cohen and prosecutors didn't talk until this last week. so there haven't been ongoing talks. >> there have been communications between his attorney and the government just basic communications, especially his attorney receiving out and
saying, hey. we're here. as you're going through documents, do you have any questions? but deliberations and specific discussions, from my reporting, i know they didn't really begin until last week. for weeks people have been saying, cohen is really quiet. he was out of the news cycle. why put himself back in? last week, that's when these conversations really began in earnest. >> and he pleads guilty today and there is no cooperation agreement that goes along with the plea. >> if you're only talking for the first time last week, and over the weekend, the beginning of this week, we know from all the very smart lawyers on this network all the time, that a cooperating agreement takes a lot of time. it takes a long, weeks if not months to get the witness to a place where they trust the witness, to work out all the details that you want to work out. if you're only starting this last week -- >> isn't that fascinating? prosecutors didn't want to start it earlier. they didn't want to develop him
into a cooperating witness. >> as he ran into the transcript from the beginning of the show, the government went through each charge. if they were intent on bringing those charges, they had what they needed. they took more than 3 million documents from anymore april. it seems like they had testimony from people. people were witnesses, if not already testified. cohen implicated the president to two felonies. to which he has pled guilty, to which serious jail time is attached lechbly davis just suggested on our air live that mr. cohen in addition to those remarkable statements today many court would be happy to speak with the special counsel on matters potentially including the president having advance knowledge of the crime that took place during the campaign, which was the hacking of documents from the democratic party.
that michael cohen may have knowledge that the president had advance warning of that happening and he would be happy to talk on special counsel about it. i'm still processing this. what can you add? >> he had a front row seat the a lot that was happening in trump tower during the campaign and in the last decade. so that was the first time that i had heard that. the stuff about the trump tower meeting, about him knowing about the president having advance knowledge of the payments that he made. when i was on your show. i said to you the exact two things had come up in his initial interview with george stephanopoulos. and i said those aren't bread crumbs. those are loaves of bread. those are things that i know to be true that michael cohen had known. i had no advance knowledge of the hacking situation. would it surprise me a person like michael cohen who was in trump tower day in and day out
and had almost daily access to the president during that time would know that information? no. >> and it is your expectation, if he knows that information, he will happily provide information. >> from everything that i know, everything that i know from where michael cohen is, state of mind, how he feels with the president and what he wants to do going forward. if there is information that he knows that he believes will be helpful, there will be no hesitation in sharing it. >> emily jane fox, senior reporter for "vanity fair." mr. cohen is out on $500,000 bail until his sentencing in early december. i imagine, you keep talking to him, you will continue to have amazing reporting on this style. congratulations being first on so much of this. thanks. we'll be right back. stay with us.
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from the great state of new jersey. thanks for being here. michael cohen and federal prosecutors from the southern district of new york implicated the has himself pled guilty and for which he expects to do jail-time. what's the difference between implicating somebody in a crime and charging them with a crime, otherwise holding them accountable for a crime? >> look, before somebody gets charged you have to have proof beyond a reasonable doubt to make that charge if you're a federal prosecutor. that's the standard for convicting. and federal prosecutors, if they're doing their jobs right, don't actually bring charges until they have enough evidence to convict. michael cohen obviously was in that circumstance. if you read what happened in court today, if you read what the prosecutors said they were prepared to prove, if you look at the detail of the criminal information which is basically a document instead of indictment when somebody is pleading. they had an enormous amount of evidence, they had an enormous a detail on each of the crimes with which he was charged and to
which he pled guilty. they may not have quite that much yet about the president of the united states. that's one reason. the second is they may be subscribing to the same view, that they can't indict the president of the united states, or maybe the southern district of new york shouldn't be the office to make that decision. and so the fact that the president hasn't been charged doesn't mean that there's not enough evidence. it just means that maybe we're not there yet. what i think is clear, though, is because what michael cohen al kutted to, what he admit theed it's not just his own crimes, he effectively admitted to a conspiracy. that makes the president of the united states ab unindicted co-conspirator. >> unindited co-conspirator is a famous phrase because we think of the floating head of richard nixon appears in our minds when we think of that. what are the material impliks of that? >> there aren't any really. the reason that the designation is usually useed is for evidentiary reasons. it has to do with what statements by other people you can get into evidence under certain circumstances. gu the statements of unindicted co-conspirators can come in at trial against a defendant sometimes. >> it helps you get around hearsay. >> it helps you get around the hearsay rules. exactly. we may have talked about this
once before. that's why he's not named that way. it actually is justice department policy not to give the names of people in charging documents like that who have not yet been charged, which is why the president isn't named himself -- >> technically, he's described -- >> right. i think what's also really interesting is that in the charges it says that cohen was working with one or more members of the campaign, which may not necessarily be just the president of the united states. maybe other people as well. so we may see other things coming out of this afterwards. we just don't know yet. >> am i also right that if the president is a de facto unindicted co-conspirator in these two felonies that that might have implications legally if the president tried to pardon one of his alleged co-conspirators? >> it certainly makes it look a lot worse. tough an interest in a particular case, if you have an interest in not having someone cooperate against you, if someone has evidence that would implicate you, that makes the reasons for your pardon so much more suspicious. that's why i think people are pretty exercised about the idea
he would do that here. what's also really interesting i think about what happened today is when michael cohen was asked what he did he talked about the tax evasion. he talked about making the false statement to the bank in order to get the loan. but he -- then he talked about the two campaign violations. the information, the charging document, doesn't say anything about the fact that he was directed to do this by the president. he said that on his own. he said it in what obviously sound node -- i wasn't there, but reading the transcript. like a prepared statement. it's very hard for me to believe that he made that prepared statement without his lawyers having shown it to the prosecutors so they weren't surprised by it. so my guess is he knew that was come to go. >> a remarkable set of charges not only for mr. cohen but because of what it means for the president. what it literally means for the president i guess we have to find out. >> and i don't think the fact the special counsel wasn't around today doesn't mean he's not going to talk to them. there's still plenty of time for that. if it turns out later that he
does cooperate with the special counsel, the special counsel can in fact let the sentencing court know about the extent of that cooperation and that could help michael cohen come sentencing time. >> on our air tonight a few minutes ago his lawyer offered to the special counsel he'd like to talk thoim about some potentially valuable stuff. >> exactly. >> paul fishman, former u.s. attorney for the great state of new jersey. much appreciated. more ahead tonight. stay with us. ♪ a hotel can make or break a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage. now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts
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with eight counts of guilty but ten counts in which the jury didn't come to a verdict. joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. thank you very much for being with us tonight. i know you have been like white on rice on this trial from the beginning. i'm so happy to talk to you about it tonight. >> oh, thanks. i'm glad to be here. >> mistrial on ten counts. is there anything that you can tell about which verdict -- which counts the jury did give a verdict on versus the ones on which they couldn't come to con sensus that tells you about how the case against manafort went and was received by that jury. >> it's hard to know exactly what was going on. we know they convicted on all of the tax counts and so that suggests that you know, that was one where they were all in agreement and didn't have a problem with. they did not convict on most of the f bar accounts. this is the failure to identify foreign bank accounts. only one of those counts. and then they acquitted on -- or were hung on a number of the
bank fraud counts. they did convict on two of them. the one that -- the significant one they did not convict on was the one out of the federal savings bank out of chicago involving steven calc, the one in discussions with paul manafort asking to become secretary of the treasury or secretary of the army. one theory there is i wonder if they didn't consider that more of an inside job because steven calk was involved and that's solely in the hands of paul manafort. hard to read what's going on. and again, it could be just one juror who was holding out on those. but nonetheless, paul manafort was convicted of eight felonies and i would consider it a significant victory for the special counsel. >> do you expect on the ten counts on which there was a hung jury that the prosecution will try to bring those charges against manafort again? will they go back and try again with a different jury? >> i don't know. but i would suspect not. i think they won significant convictions today with the eight. the sentence is likely to be
significant with just those convictions. and the judge is permitted to impose a sentence that includes what's known as relevant conduct under the sentencing guidelines. so if he finds by a preponderance of the evidence, a much lower standard than the jury had to find, that manafort committed those additional crimes, then he is allowed to consider them in imposing sentence. sow i don't know that they have much to gain by retrying the case. so if it were me, i would not. they may have other reasons they want to go forward. >> and briefly, barb, do you think that the special counsel's office will go back to manafort's team now and talk to them again about whether he might want to flip and become a cooperating witness? rather than face the second trial in d.c. and hopefully not have to face all those years in prison he's looking at after all those convictions today. >> i do. in fact, if i were manafort's lawyer i would be advising manafort, this is your moment. i know you wanted to wait as long as possible, but this is it. this is your time. if you ever want to cooperate, now is your opportunity. maybe you could work out a deal where the d.c. case gets dismissed, you ask for a reduced
>> look, again, i think that's a ridiculous accusation. the president in this matter has done nothing wrong and there are no charges against him. >> reporter: today on twitter, the president falsely claimed that, quote, "michael cohen pled guilty to two counts of campaign finance violations that are not a crime." they are, indeed, a crime, spelled out by federal prosecutors. and on fox news, the president floating another defense. >> did you know about the payments? >> later on i knew. later on. but you have to understand, what he did, and they weren't taken out of campaign finance, that's the big thing, that's a much bigger thing. did they come out of the campaign? they didn't come out of the campaign. they came from me. >> reporter: but lawyers say that still doesn't make it legal if the money was never disclosed. and cohen has released a secretly recorded conversation with the president seeming to discuss another hush money arrangement weeks before the election. >> when it comes time for the financing, which will be -- >> listen. what financing? >> we'll have to pay --
no, no. i got -- no, no, no. >> reporter: the president now blasting his one-time right-hand man, but publicly, he has nothing but love for his former campaign chairman paul manafort, convicted of defrauding the federal government and now facing life behind bars. >> he is evaluating all of his options at this point. >> reporter: the president tweeting, "feel very badly for paul manafort and his wonderful family. unlike michael cohen, he refused to break. make up stories in order to get a deal. such respect for a brave man." >> positive words there for paul manafort tonight. cecilia vega joins us from the white house. and cecilia, president trump refusing to rule out a pardon for manafort. >> reporter: david, so far, he says he is not thinking about a pardon for paul manafort, but in a matter of weeks, manafort goes back on trial, facing a second set of charges, potentially even more time behind bars. so, the pressure right now is on. does he plead guilty as part of a deal for leniency, david, or does he hold out hope for a presidential pardon?
we will soon find out. >> all right, cecilia vega leading us off tonight. cecilia, thank you. as i mentioned at the top, michael cohen tonight is signaling he's ready to talk to the special counsel, and not just about those payments. michael cohen's attorney is now suggesting cohen is ready to talk about something else. here's abc's chief national affairs correspondent tom llamas tonight. >> reporter: leaving court, michael cohen was silent. michael, what's your message to the president? michael, what's your message to the president? doing all the talking today, his lawyer, lanny davis, and he was asked if his client is ready to tell all to special counsel robert mueller. >> yes. 100%. >> reporter: michael cohen claims that just before the election, president trump himself directed an effort to silence two women who claimed to have had affairs with him. prosecutors say they have a mountain of evidence about the hush money scheme. documents, seized electronic devices and audio recordings made by cohen. also, text messages, phone records, e-mails. all of this on top of witness testimony. cohen's lawyer says his client is ready to talk, and not just
about payoffs, but about russian hacking and what president trump might have known. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. >> reporter: cohen's attorney now suggesting his client has information about whether donald trump knew in advance about the russian hacking. when democrats e-mails were later distributed by wikileaks. >> i can tell you that mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel. knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. >> reporter: cohen has pleaded guilty to eight felony charges, but there was no agreement to cooperate with the federal government. he's hoping that sharing information with investigators now will help reduce his prison sentence. >> would michael cohen accept a presidential pardon? does he want one? >> he will not and does not want
anything from donald trump. after working for him all of those years, he came to the recognition that donald trump is a president unsuitable to have that office. >> so, let's get to tom llamas with us again tonight. and tom, michael cohen is scheduled to be sentenced on december 12th. it would appear tonight he's very eager to talk with state and federal investigators. and you have news this evening about a new subpoena? >> reporter: that's right. a new development there, david. this has to do with the donald j. trump foundation. you'll remember, that was the president's charitable organization. in june, they were sued by the new york attorney general, accused of self-dealing and illegally coordinating with the trump campaign. according to "the new york times," michael cohen received that subpoena today and called state investigators back, david, asking them when they were ready to talk. david? >> tom llamas with us again tonight. thank you, tom. next this evening here, new developments in the murder of that college student in iowa. the suspect was in court for the first time today. prosecutors say he kidnapped and
killed mollie tibbetts while she was jogging, dumping her body in a corn field. authorities say he was in the u.s. illegally, and that he used a false i.d. to get work. abc's alex perez from iowa again tonight. >> mr. rivera, did you kill mollie tibbetts? >> reporter: tonight, the man accused of murdering mollie tibbetts arriving in an iowa courthouse, shackled and escorted by deputies, 24-year-old cristhian rivera facing a judge. >> mr. rivera, you have been charged with murder in the first degree. >> reporter: rivera listening to the charges through a translator. his girlfriend and family in the courtroom. authorities say rivera confessed to abducting and killing mollie tibbetts while she was out for a jog, dumping her body in a corn field. investigators say they cracked the case using surveillance footage showing the suspect's car near mollie during her run. >> frame by frame and in real-time motion and eventually saw mollie on the video, led us to mr. rivera, identifying the vehicle. >> reporter: according to investigators, rivera, who is
from mexico, was in the country illegally. tonight, the owner of the farm where he worked saying rivera lied. >> what we learned in the last 24 hours is that our employee was not who he said he was. >> reporter: the farm now says when they hired rivera four years ago, they screened him through an older system instead of homeland security's e-verify. >> and alex perez back with us tonight. and alex, tonight, cristhian rivera remains behind bars? >> reporter: that's right, david. the judge ordered he be held on $5 million cash bond. we are also hearing from mollie's family tonight. they issued a statement thanking the public for their love and saying their hearts are broken. david? >> alex perez with us again tonight. thank you, alex. we're going to move on here this evening and to that monster hurricane now closing in on hawaii. the state of emergency already in effect at this hour. hurricane lane as seen from space, now a massive category 4 storm. winds up to 155 miles per hour. more than 1.5 million families and tourists there now bracing for this storm. and abc's gio benitez is right there in hawaii.
>> reporter: tonight, residents rushing to stores and gas stations, loading up on food, water and gas, as lane, a major category 4 hurricane, barrels towards hawaii. >> right now, forecast to stay close to the entire state. >> reporter: hurricane hunters flying inside lane's eye as the storm reached category 5 strength. schools closed. this search and rescue team from san diego flying in to help. >> this hurricane lane is a dangerous storm. and we got to take it very, very seriously. >> reporter: many tourists in the middle of vacations here caught offguard. >> we are not prepared for this. we are going to go to the airport and hopefully get on a flight to maui tomorrow. >> and gio benitez is live from honolulu. a sunny day there, but don't be fooled by that, because officials are warning people to prepare and they're warning them to pay attention to the hours on this thing, the timing, because time is running out. >> reporter: that's right, david. the big island will start feeling those tropical storm conditions in just a few hours. we're talking about the possibility of 20-foot waves,
devastating flooding and perhaps even some landslides. david? >> gio benitez with us tonight from hawaii. let's get right to chief meteorologist ginger zee. you've been tracking this storm all day. where is it right now? >> reporter: this is a hurricane, david, by the way, that has already made history. it is the closest a category 5 hurricane has ever made it to hawaii. so, that's a big news. but it is also a category 4 that is right near it. you can see, nearly dwarfing those islands at this point. moving west-northwest at 8 miles per hour. it still has max sustained winds of easily 155 miles per hour. now, gusts, these are impacts, right, of 75-plus. rain in the 10 to 20-inch range and waves 10 to 20 feet. the path takes it very close to honolulu. friday into saturday, that's when we'll see the heaviest impacts on the islands farthest west. david? >> all right, ginger zee with us tonight. and we'll be tracking this through the coming hours. ginger, thank you. we do turn overseas tonight, and to afghanistan, and the new front in america's longest war. our team learning weeks ago of initial u.s. talks with the taliban now. tonight, our senior foreign correspondent ian pannell takes
us inside one of the most dangerous prisons in the world, right there in afghanistan, filled with taliban prisoners. and right through those prison bars, telling ian their message for the u.s. >> reporter: tonight, we get exclusive access inside the most notorious jail in afghanistan. pole charkhi prison is dangerous, overcrowded, home to thousands of death row terrorists. home to america's sworn enemy for the last 17 years, the taliban. you can see the prisoners shackled to one another. we're heading into one of the main prisons in afghanistan today that houses 4,000 convicted terrorists. we're going here to try to talk to the taliban, but the prison guards are worried. they've told us it's not safe inside. the inmates approach us from the other side of the bars. men who have attacked and killed u.s. and afghan soldiers and civilians. among them, this man, a quiet, english-speaking doctor from afghanistan, also a hard core taliban fighter.
what would you like to say to the american people, to the fathers and mothers of soldiers who have been killed, to the american government? >> american soldiers should leave our country. we have the ability to fight up to 30 years. >> reporter: you won't stop? >> no. we will not stop the fight against american soldiers. >> reporter: other prisoners are eager to talk. this man says he has no problem with other afghans, just the foreigners who invaded, the americans. these exclusive pictures were taken for abc news from inside taliban territory. they now have control or influence over more than half the country, with their own government, police, courts. and this is the man in charge of trying to beat them. commander of all u.s. and foreign troops here, four-star general john nicholson. we fly over land the taliban often attacks. >> it's where the 9/11 originated from. >> reporter: we've been given details of a secret meeting once
unthinkable. american diplomats with the state department quietly initiating talks with the taliban. how would you feel about sitting down and talking to the taliban? >> we want to end this war. we want to end it on terms that protect our nation, our homelands and provide a lower level of violence for the afghans. so, if that were necessary, then absolutely. >> reporter: but the taliban get a say, too, and back at the prison tonight, they're firm. no peace until the americans leave. ian pannell, abc news, kabul, afghanistan. >> ian pannell, our thanks to you again tonight. and there is still much more ahead on "world news tonight" this wednesday. the congressman and his wife indicted. authorities say they spent thousands in your money. 11,000 at costco and a trip to italy. also, the new alligator attack tonight. what we've now learned. the engine of a passenger plane sparking and then igniting. you can see it in the air. and the inferno in l.a.
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next tonight here, the stunning time indictments of california congressman duncan hunter and his wife. prosecutors now accusing them of spending campaign funds, your money, at costco, tuition for their kids, a trip to italy. tonight, the congressman now responding, and here's linsey davis. >> reporter: the california congressman accused of using campaign money as a personal piggy bank, tonight, defiant. >> this is the new department of justice. this is the democrats' arm of law enforcement. that's what's happening right now. it's happening with trump and it's happening with me. >> reporter: but in a 47-page indictment, prosecutors allege duncan hunter and his wife used a quarter million dollars in campaign money and falsified documents to pay for personal expenses they could not otherwise afford. including more than $11,000 at costco, $6,000 for their kids' tuition and more than $14,000 for a family thanksgiving vacation to italy. in that instance, prosecutors
say, in an attempt to legitimize the spending, the marine vet attempted to set up a tour of a u.s. naval facility in italy. when navy officials couldn't offer one on that date, prosecutors say hunter subsequently told his chief of staff, "tell the navy to go expletive themselves." prosecutors say the spending happened when their accounts were overdrawn, racking up $27,000 insufficient funds fees in seven years. tonight, hunter, who was among the first members of congress to endorse donald trump, is refusing calls to step down, calling the allegations politically motivated. and hunter is also refusing to give up his committee duties, so, the republicans will then have to vote in september to have him removed. now, remember, this is the second indictment of a house republican and an early trump endorser this month alone. democrats now think that both seats could now be in play for the midterms. david? >> linsey, thank you. when we come back here tonight, the newest alligator attack. and more on that emergency landing after the engine of a passenger plane ignites.
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to the index. and a new photo raising questions about actress asia argento and allegations involving sex with a teenage actor. the actress and girlfriend of the late anthony bourdain denying she had sex with the actor when he was just 17. an image obtained by tmz of her with the actor, jimmy bennett. she allegedly texted a friend saying she didn't know he was a minor. a swimmer attacked by an alligator in florida. the gator dragging the woman under water. she was able to break free and call for help. this after another woman was killed by an alligator earlier this week in hilton head, south carolina. overseas tonight, the passenger plane engine bursting into flames moments after takeoff. video inside the cabin showing the engine sparking, then igniting. the plane bound for sochi making an emergency landing. all 204 passengers and crew were safely evacuated. and in l.a., more than 100 firefighters battling the flames, the fire exploding in size. they had to get off the roof immediately.
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before collapsing. and today, at the white house, president trump describing what technical sergeant chapman did even in those final moments. >> even though he was mortally wounded, john regained consciousness and continued to fight on, and he really fought. >> reporter: continuing to fire at the enemy while members of his own team could be rescued. his wife valerie was there to receive the medal of honor on behalf of her late husband. blowing a kiss to the sky. and this is what she said in washington about her husband. >> he was such a genuine, good-hearted person. he lived his life team before self, the whole way. the girls and i meant everything to him. and -- just an amazing man. >> we all salute technical sergeant chapman. and we thank you for watching here on a wednesday night. i'm david muir. go . major questions tonight,
verizon admits to throttling data speed for firefighters in fire zones. hundreds gather in iowa to remember mollie tibbetts. this as the man accused of killing her appears in court for the first time. and new details arise. live doppler 7 tracking hurricane lane and the category four storm bears down on the island. >> announcer: now live breaking news. that breaking news is a manhunt in san jose late this afternoon. police received a report that a san jose state student was kidnapped and robbed. this is according to the mercury news. the man was taken from a 7-eleven and forced to withdraw money from several different atms after being released the person called -- called police. we'll bring you more details as they become available. i'm dan ashley. >> and i'm kristen zse.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
Anderson Cooper takes viewers beyond the headlines with in-depth reporting and investigations.
with michael cohen coming. his top lawyer is out of the country. those that know the president best and work with him say he seems like he is backed in a corner and they don't know what it is that the president is going to do next in response to all of this. >> all right. kaitlyn collins, thank you very much. now my conversation with the public face for the moment of michael cohen, lanny davis is a crisis management expert and attorney. tonight his expertise is used to address a question of his client's credibility because regardless of whether you put any credence in mr. cohen's critics or not, he doesn't have a reputation in the past as a truth teller. i asked lanny davis about it just before air time. the central push back is that michael cohen lied about these payments, that he's a liar. he told "the new york times" back in february that either the trump organization or the trump campaign was a party with the transaction of miss clifford and reimburse me directly or indirectly. that was a lie. he said payments to miss
clifford was lawful and not a campaign expenditure. that was a lie. why should the public believe him now? >> well, first of all, he's admitted to lying and he has taken a course he hopes shows he's taking responsibility. secondly, the prosecutors did a thorough job of investigating the facts. and what he said in what is called the allocution where he is talking to the judge about what he is admitting to, on the key issues involving president trump. he said that he was, according to the words of the allocution, that he specifically was directed and coordinated through president trump's direction the payment of this money to miss daniels and he took responsibility under oath and said that that was a -- an
illegal act because it had a primary political purpose which is the criminal violation of the campaign finance law. >> you can understand why some people are skeptical. >> sure. >> he's doing this under oath. you said you started working with him because he convinced you he really wanted to start telling the truth. he did though have his own friend and attorney david schwartz go out on television time and time again. i interviewed him multiple times repeating the lies that cohen was telling back at that time. i don't know if he lied to david schwartz. i mean, did -- did he lie to david schwartz? if he lied to schwartz, couldn't he be lying to you? >> of course. it took me a while to talk and get to know michael and his decision to change his life and as he said to me, hit the reset button and recognize you can't get a redo in life when you make mistakes and some of the things that he did for mr. trump he talked to me about and not being particularly proud of or things
that he said that weren't true on camera. he is not particularly proud of that. >> isn't that a change of heart only after his offices are raided and he realizes he is facing possible serious jail time? >> sure. but when we talked, it was mostly about his feelings about mr. trump, his positions on issues, his conduct of the presidency and what i found after quite a long period of time talking to him, a sincere conviction that mr. trump represented a danger to the country. and would i help him tell his story which i guess i'm known as a crisis manager to get facts out and to no matter what you've done up to a point to take responsibility for your mistakes. >> but i mean that is such a huge change of heart for this guy. he was the guy that said he would take a bullet for him. anything mr. -- he was on cnn
during the campaign -- >> take the bullet. >> yeah. saying things which were, you know, false but he would -- he was an attack dog for the president to now suddenly say he believes the president's a danger to the kun sflicountry? that's a 180. >> there are people in life that have transformtive experiences and they're sincere and there are people that continue to lie and are opportunityists. you have to judge which is which when you use instincts. i took a while in making the judgement that he was ready to talk about mr. trump and his knowledge about mr. trump and the disadvantages that he now saw that as a businessman were very dangerous as president. now whether he's telling the truth or not is anybody's judgement. and your skepticism is certainly not only entitled founded on what he did in the past.
i made the judgement that i believed him. i would believe him based on his words and his deeds. >> on -- sorry. go ahead. >> i mean, so far i still believe he's telling the truth. >> on "good morning america" today, you said that michael cohen and i quote, "can now speak completely the truth without the shadow of the potential prosecution hanging over him." you said you thought he'd be willing to speak without any guarantee of immunity. if that's true, why doesn't michael cohen hold a press conference tonight or tomorrow morning and just speak the truth? if he has no shadow hanging over him, doesn't care about immunity, why doesn't he just stand up in public and say everything he knows right now? >> well, several reasons. first of all, the criminal case in the southern district is not over. there is still a question of sentencing and assessing under the guidelines. >> but wouldn't that speak in his favor if, i mean, if he's told the prosecutors everything he already knows, why can't he just now tell the public everything he already knows?
>> i can only tell you, anderson, to complete the thought he hasn't finished his lawyer has not finished the discussions with the prosecutors who he's been very respectful of and until those discussions on all the details including he has a wife and two kids, period of incarceration that he is facing, his lawyers have given him advice that he's got to wait. he also has the special counsel who he's either going to be talking to or has talked to. i won't be able to tell you which. >> right. >> but there are a lot of moving parts in a very tragic situation that there will come a time as i said in "good morning america" when the shadow of uncertainty becomes certainty. he's going to be incarcerated. he's going to leave his family behind quite traumatized that he wants to turn his life and tell the truth. >> you were just on with wolf blitzer. you said that michael cohen was
present for a meeting with donald trump p and don jr. about the trump tower meeting. this is important. you also said that michael cohen testified truthfully to the senate intelligence committee and according to the chair and vice chair, he told them he had no knowledge of the meeting until he saw it in the press. how can both of those things be true? either he knew about the meeting or he didn't know about the meeting. >> well, i think the reporting of the story got mixed up in the course of a criminal investigation. we were not the source of the story. and the question of a criminal investigation, the advice we were given, those of us dealing with the media is that we could not do anything other than stay silent. >> so can you say now whether in fact michael cohen has information that president trump was aware either before the trump tower meeting that don jr. was part of with russian attorney from the kremlin with
dirt on hillary clinton, either that michael cohen has information that president knew about it in advance or knew about it immediately after? >> senator byrd and senator warner read the answer to the question about his testimony which is that he said he was not aware ahead of time. and did not hear anything to the contrary and that was the testimony before the senate as well as the house intelligence kmp km committees and he said that testimony was accurate. >> so michael cohen does not have information that president trump knew about the trump tower meeting with the russians beforehand or even after? >> no, there's not. >> i know you won't say if you spoke to mueller's team. i'm not going to press you on thafrment y that. you said you believe michael cohen has knowledge about whether or not then candidate trump knew about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. do you stand by that tonight? >> i think i was a little bit
more tentative on that. i think what i said was that at some point mr. cohen might be able to be useful to the special counsel about whether president trump knew ahead of time about the hacking of the hillary clinton e-mails. and it's not a certainty the way he recalls it. may or may not be useful to mr. mueller and i don't want to go beyond my intuition. >> right. i know you have to be careful. >> i think what he can say would be useful. and that's the way i have to leave it. >> there are two fascinating details in the charging document that haven't gotten a lot of attention. one is on page 16 of the criminal information document. it says that cohen "coordinated with one or more members of the
campaign including through meetings and phone calls about the fact, nature and timing of the payments." talking about the payments to stormy daniels and mcdougal. we know one person was the president. if there was another person involved in the campaign who he was talking about this with, e-mailing, discussing, do you know who that other person was? >> no, i don't. and, you know, unidentified in -- you're reading from the information document. >> correct. >> underlying the plea. and i do not know that. and if i did, i would not be able to discuss that because he's still in the process of dealing with the prosecutors on all of the issues that still remain. >> can you say if there is another person from the campaign or even who is now in the white house? >> i can't say. zblfr oka >> okay. >> i can't say. >> did you ever ask michael cohen that question?
>> i've talked to michael cohen about a lot of things but the specifics until the information came out, i was not aware of the details of what the government was saying and who was involved in the chain of command on the decision to pay the what looks like an illegal campaign contribution that he has owned up to under oath which mr. trump has not but, no, the answer is i don't know the identity of a number of individuals that are not identified in that information. >> because obviously, the reason i'm pushing, if there is another individual that knows about the payments and part of the campaign and is still part of the white house that, would obviously be extremely important and a new detail and a fascinating one. the other detail in the documents is that michael cohen charged the trump organization $50,000 for what he listed as text services which according to the court document was "related to work that cohen solicited from a tech company during and in connection with the
campaign." previously michael cohen supposedly had no role in the campaign. can you say what company that was and what services were rendered or was that another payment to protect then candidate trump? or can you even say if michael cohen was involved in the campaign? >> i just learned all this in the last several days. as you know, the final plea agreement and the final statement in court was just a couple days ago. so i haven't gotten the ability to find out the answer to that question either. i believe that mr. cohen referenced that contract as something that he was doing to assist the campaign. but i don't know too much about that either. >> but officially michael cohen was not part of the campaign. isn't that -- >> correct. >> so if, in fact, he was -- if he was telling the truth in what billing was, he -- he was claiming to the trump organization that he was actually doing work for the
campaign which here to for had not been known? >> well, i think just reading it without knowing the details, i just read what you read, it appears that he had a contract to provide technology support and he supplied that vendor to the campaign and passed through the expense. but i'm just reading something that i don't know much about. i have not talked to mr. cohen about so i'm just speculating. >> lanny davis, i appreciate your time. >> we'll break this down with jeffrey tu jeffrey toobin and allen dar dershowitz and all that transpired on the last 24 hours, some of which he predicted and where things may go from here for his client and his one time adversary michael cohen.
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you heard michael cohen's attorney defend his client's credibility in defense of allegations he made in court is not to be trusted and he said mr. cohen did not have information that candidate trum health care plan pri -- trump had prior knowledge of the e-mails before the elections and he has information that may be useful to mueller's investigation. what mr. cohen said set off tremors in washington, triggering an eruption from the president about a man he thought was a standup guy. michael is a businessman for his own account lawyer i liked and respected. most people flip in the government lets them out of trouble even if it means lying or making up stories. i don't see michael doing that despite the horrible witch hunt and dishonest media. joining us is allen dershowitz, also, his law school student, cnn's chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. i want to go back to this thing
which is, i mean, if lanny davis is saying that michael cohen is unburdened. he doesn't care about immunity. he wants to speak the truth. can he just speak the truth? >> sure. >> i mean he's raising money for people to pay him to speak the truth and fund him. can he just hold a press conference? >> he could. he is also under the thumb of the prosecutors at this point. and they may not want him to go public at this point. i mean they may want -- they may continue their investigation. they don't want his story out there. that's possibility. >> you mean the mueller prosecutors? >> mueller prosecutors or the southern district. that's where his case is. >> right. >> so i don't know what the play has been between cohen and the prosecutors. certainly as a legal matter, there is nothing stopping him from telling a story right now. >> professor, you said the white house, that the assertion the white house made that president committed no crime here, i mean, do you think michael cohen
committed a crime here? >> well, it all depends. these campaign finance laws are so confusing that even justice scalia with the help of four brilliant law clerks said he couldn't figure them out. for example, a president or a candidate is entitled to make millions of dollars for contributions to his own campaign. and if he himself, if president trump paid the hush money, hush smn n money is not illegal -- >> if he did it through the corporation. >> put aside the corporation. >> but that's how the money was paid back to cohen. >> well, you know, the question is what was his state of mind at the time if he directed the person to do it? if he directed the lawyer to do it and if it came from his own money, that would be lawful. but if cohen himself made the contribution, we'll see. cohen himself made the contradiction that, is a crime by cohen. that wouldn't make trump an
unindicted co-conspirator. can you have a crime committed by cohen but even if he's directed to do it by trump, if trump had the authority to do it and it depends on where the money came from, it depends on a variety of issues. >> but i'm asking if you it came from the trump organization. you seem to be avoiding what was said. >> can i answer your question in one word? >> what we know there are contributions that are made by corporations and we know that the supreme court has had a terrible time figuring all of this out. and you don't use complex, subtle, confusing criminal law as the basis either for charging or impeaching a president. that's why people are mostly fined violating the laws. >> you know, it's helpful to donald trump to think this is all that complicated. it's no the that complicated. did michael cohen commit a crime? you bet he did.
let's think about why campaign finance laws exist at all. right? the reason they exist is so that we know who finances campaigns and we know what they spend the money on. the trump campaign and donald trump lied about both of those things on an incredibly important subject. because they didn't -- they wanted to spend the money to help donald trump get elected president and they wanted to keep secret how they were spending the money because the public might not have liked $280,000 spent in hush money for women that donald trump apparently slept with. that's what happened here. >> that's absolutely right. but tell me -- let's stop there. it's a crime under certain circumstances. it's no the a crime under any other circumstance. a president would have the right to do the following. he'd have the right to pay the hush money. keep it secret until the next reporting time which may be after the election.
direct his lawyer to pay the money. none of that would be a crime. >> but he didn't do that. that's very interesting. built that's not what happened. >> we don't know what he did. you say that cohen committed a crime. it all depends -- >> so does cohen. >> cohen seld he committed a crime and the judge said he committed a crime. >> i understand that. you don't believe that the trump organization was billed by michael cohen? and that trump organization paid back michael cohen? >> there is a dispute about the facts. the president said today he paid the money out of his own pocket. >> he just said he paid. >> if it was a corporate -- if it was a corporate contribution, that's very different. look, the law is so unclear after citizens united -- >> you're saying that's a problem? >> of course. well, look, it's all a problem. i'm not here to defend trump. it's a problem. it's a problem because -- >> the president is saying it's not a problem. >> it's a problem. i'm not here to defend the president. i'm here to say that it's a complicated issue.
and that if a candidate makes a contribution on his own to pay hush money, that sounds terrible. it's a political sin. i'm here to say you have to distinguish between political sin and federal felonies. i think a lot of the commentary so far failed to do that. >> he compared this to jay walking. you said that all candidates running for -- you said that all candidates for president violate campaign election laws. >> don't tell me what i said. let me tell you what i said. >> i have the quote right here. >> failing to report -- >> well, yeah. >> failing to report a lawful contribution is the political equivalent of jay walking. every political campaign does that all the time. and they should be punished for it. >> and how many of those -- allen, let me talk for a second, for god sake. >> it's a crime for the campaign. >> okay. >> i mean, you know, everybody does it. how many campaigns do it with a $130,000 to one woman and
$150,000 to another woman in hush money -- >> nothing illegal about that. nothing illegal about that. >> if it comes from a campaign? >> it's perfectly okay. that's the issue. that is the issue in other cases. this is the most complex array of laws, relations and rules but the simple part of it and the simple and most important part of it is a candidate may pay for any reason -- >> he said out of his own pocket. there is no evidence he did it out of his own pocket. >> all right. >> if that's what happened, then there is no crime here. >> but even if he does it out of his own pocket, he has to report that he did it out of his own pocket. and that was not done here. >> that's exactly right. that's exactly right and that is a violation. that is a violation. >> okay. >> it is regarded as a minor
violation. certainly not an impeachable offense to fail to report a lawful contribution. you find me any case where failure to report -- it has to be willful, of course, failure to report is a crime against the campaign, not against the candidate. you show me any case where a person was actually charged criminally and sentenced to prison for failure to report an entirely lawful campaign contribution? >> allen, i don't have a lot of -- >> this is existing laws and targeting somebody who none of us likes and who none of us voted for and that's the most dangerous thing can you do in the criminal law, stretch it to target somebody who is unpopular with those who are doing the stretching. that's what i'm talking about. >> it's a heartbreaking treatment of donald trump. >> it's not heartbreaking. >> jeff, nobody is forced the president of the united states to repeatedly lie about this time and time again, to lie
to -- >> it's not a crime to lie. >> okay, i'm just saying it's not that easy. the president of the united states -- >> i'm talking now. and i'm saying it's really sleazy. it is sleazy that michael cohen lied repeatedly about it, publicly, that he got his own attorney to come on television and either lie about it knowingly or accidentally and he seemed to lie to sarah sanders about it. >> allen, let me talk. >> you don't have to talk all the time. let jeff talk for a second. >> allen, there is -- it is undoubtedly true that sleaziness is not a violation of federal criminal law. sleaziness is in the eye of the beholder. i don't think there is any doubt that there was sleazy behavior here. but it is misleading to say that federal campaign laws are so complicated that you can't know what they are. the whole reason why they paid this money in this convoluted
way was to avoid -- was to break the law. because they knew how bad it would look. so it is not a terribly complicated story. it is a willful violation of the law. >> i have to wrap it there. thank you very much. just ahead, republican reaction that can only be described as hands off in the wake of the cohen plea and the paul manafort conviction. i'll talk with mark warner.
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the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell hasn't said one word about what is going on with michael cohen or paul manafort. what do you make of that? is there anything that could make them possibly speak out? >> well, let's see how this proceeds. but what can they say if they're trying to defend the president when the president's campaign manager guilty on eight counts and has got another trial in less than a month that will explore his ties to ukraine, pro russian leaders and oligarchs that could even be war damaging to the president. and the president's lawyer and fixer not only pleading guilty and accusing the president of breaking the law around campaign finances, but voluntarilily saying he's got information from mueller and my understanding is his lawyer at least said even come before our committee and give information as well. we've got questions about what he knew about trump's knowledge of the hacked e-mails and how they were used to hurt clinton and help trump. we've also got questions from mr. cohen about his involvement
in the proposed trump tower and moscow, a lot of unanswered questions there. so we would welcome his appearance. >> if democrats were to take the house, obviously, a lot of them, you know, talking about the idea of possibly impeaching the president, is that something that the democrats should pursue if they do retake the house? >> i'm not going to get down the line. i still -- we still have work to do before we reach our conclusion. we're the last standing bipartisan committee that is looking into this investigation. we're still trying to follow the facts. >> you know, michael cohen's attorney, lanny davis, says that michael cohen wants to tell the whole truth to the american people. that he's maybe even willing to do -- speak without any immunity guarantees and that he no longer has this cloud, this legal cloud hanging over him. what i don't understand is if michael cohen wants to tell the truth so badly, what is preventing him right now? couldn't he just hold a press conference right now and -- >> he could go on your show. >> right. >> i don't -- again, the -- i
think it's safe to say that the cast of characters that are around this president are unusual to say the least. i think we shouldn't be surprised. remember, mr. trump was a business guy that no american major bank would do business with because they didn't think he paid his debts or honored his word. we should not be that surprised although i'm frankly still fairly shocked that we got all of these guilty pleas and another 30 indictments coming out of the mueller investigation as well as every trump security official saying russia is still an on going threat and the president denies that threat and doesn't have anybody in charge of election security at the white house. >> the president claiming today that he found out about the payments only after they occurred. that's in direct contradiction to michael cohen's plea not to mention the recording of the president talking about making
the payments or buying the life rights from ami about mcdougal's story. when sarah sanders was asked today if the president lied to the american public about it, she basically just -- she refused to answer. said it was a ridiculous question. i think that would be easiest question of all for her to answer. >> well, i think the american public, even some of the president's strongest supporters, have got to be questioning at this point. and the idea that mr. trump always tells the truth, i think that has been refuted on our most daily basis. and when you've got live individual yoef him sayi video of him saying one thing and then another thing. mr. cohen has his own credibility problems. but in termsst payments, boy, the time line, the recordings, video of trump denying knowledge of this person all to me is compelling that in this case at least i would bet on the fact that mr. trump knew and was deeply involved in this
inappropriate payoff. >> just lastly, sarah sanders would not rule out a pardon for paul manafort. you said that any attempt to pardon him would be an abuse of power. what kind of congressional action would it require? >> i started putting this down last christmas saying firing mueller or starting to pardon family members or close associates would push us over the line. everything since then from his performance in helsinki where he cow you totowed to a russian prt and starting to threaten members of our national security community by taking away security clearances because of people exercising their first amendment rights, if this president now starts pardoning people that might have the goods on his bad deeds, even the most a ardent of r. supporter ardent supporters of the president, i hope they stand up to rule of law and not rule of trump. >> thank you. coming up, i'll talk with
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star stormy daniels is still working on putting donald trump under oath in the wake of michael cohen's guilty plea yesterday. he said it's clear as day that the president violated campaign finance laws despite the white house assertions did he nothing of the sort. he joins us now. so, michael, what went through your mind when you heard president trum tp today claimin that he didn't know about the payments until after they occurred? >> well, it's absurd, anderson. we've heard every story known to mankind from donald trump and michael cohen for that matter over the last six months. welcome to the alice in wonderland presidency. here, anderson, truth is not truth, a crime is not a crime, and alan dershowitz is not on television to defend donald trump. >> earlier this year somebody else who was on television defending michael cohen was his lawyer in another matter and his friend david schwartz. you were on with him multiple
times. david schwartz repeatedly said all the things that michael cohen was saying at the time, which we now know were lies. whether -- we don't know if david schwartz knew michael cohen was lying or if he was lied to as well. we reached out to david schwartz to ask him, a, to come on. he declined. but he also said, and i want to make sure i get this right, that he was only repeating -- he was "merely repeating the public positions that were in the public domain at the time." was michael cohen do you think lying to his own attorney back then? >> well, i don't know, anderson. but that statement that you just read from david schwartz is absolutely false. david schwartz made numerous statements on your schmo others where he stated that he'd had discussions with michael cohen in detail and he was laying out vehemently positions that we know now were absolute lies. we had very spirited debates on your show. i know you remember them. i know i remember them. and now we find out that
everything that was being espoused by david schwartz was a complete fabrication. >> you know, i've asked the question a couple times tonight, why michael cohen if according to his attorney now lanny davis says he's free from the burden of the shadow hanging over him, he's free to tell the truth and he doesn't care about immunity-y he doesn't come out and hold a press conference. i know you've been pushing for him to release any tapes he may have. jeff toobin raised the possibility that maybe the prosecutors still have something they want from him and he doesn't want to hurt their -- another case they may have. do you believe he could come forward and just start talking? >> there's no question that he could, anderson. and i've been demanding that for weeks, ever since lanny davis got involved and tried to repair the reputation of michael cohen, which frankly cannot be repaired. i've been stating for weeks that he should just come out, disclose what he knows, release the tapes, come clean with the american people. and if he wanted to do it right now, he certainly could. >> lanny davis said i think it was on "good morning america" or "today" show this morning
that -- i want to get the quote right. michael cohen needs the american public's help to tell the truth. basically, that he has a website and he basically is hoping to fund-raise, get donations to pay legal expenses for michael cohen. it's a lot of chutzpah on michael cohen's part that a guy who defrauded the taxpayers of $1.4 million according to the government to now be asking taxpayers to fund him so he can then tell the truth. >> well, it's outrageous, anderson. you're absolutely right. i am highly confident that if michael cohen and lanny davis wanted to have a press conference or come on your show or any other show they wouldn't have to pay in order to do it. you don't have to be paid money in order to figure out a way to tell the truth. it's a pretty simple concept. >> you said you believe cohen's plea has increased your chances of being able to depose the president. how so? >> well, because now we have a factual predicate for our allegations as set forth in the
amended complaint that we filed in the case. you know, for many, many months we were told by michael cohen and his attorneys that our case was frivolous, it had no basis. mr. trump and his lawyers have said the same thing. now we know all of those were lies. they were complete fabrications. we know the allegations in our complaint are on solid footing. and we're going to lay that out for the court in los angeles. i'm going to take a deposition of michael cohen under oath. i'm going to ask very pointed questions. and then i'm going to move on to a deposition of the president of the united states. and he may want to lie to the american people. but we're going to find out if he's prepared to lie under oath. >> michael avenatti, i appreciate your time. michael, thanks very much. >> welcome to the alice in wonderland presidency. >> through the looking glass. michael, thanks. new questions in the murder of 20-year-old mollie tibbetts as a suspect is arraigned in iowa. the present republican leaders are focusing on the case, trying to further their immigration agenda. we'll have the details, the latest on the case ahead. if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis,
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in iowa city tonight a vigil to remember mollie tibbetts, the 20-year-old student who went chrissing last month and whose body was found yesterday. today the man accused of killing her, who was in the united states illegally, was arraigned on a first degree murder charge. the suspect worked in the iowa dairy farm. the co-owner of that farm said they've just learned he gave false identification papers when he applied for the job. president trump and his applies have been highlighting her murder as an example of why they say there needs to be a change in immigration policy. mollie tibbetts was studying psychology at the university of iowa. tonight people gathered to honor her life and her memory. her family put out a statement thanking people from around the world who sent their thoughts and prayers. they said they'll carry mollie in their hearts forever and are asking for time to process the devastating loss. of course we'll continue to follow that story. a reminder, don't miss full sishlg our daily interactive newscast that just started on facebook. you pick the stories we cover.
Rachel Maddow takes a look at the day's top political news stories.
but the president's own fate is a real front burner issue now because of what just happened with cohen and manafort. let's start with manafort. on manafort, you know by now the basics. manafort was convicted on eight felony counts. the jury in the manafort case was not able to reach a verdict on the other ten felony counts that manafort was facing. they didn't find him not guilty on those other ten charges. they just couldn't come to a decision. that gives the prosecution and the defense both some options here. on the counts where the jury didn't reach a verdict, there was a mistrial for those ten counts, than means prosecutors could decide to try paul manafort again on those ten counts. prosecutors have a choice as to whether or not they want to do that. on the other hand, there are the eight counts, the eight felony charges where the jurors did reach a verdict. on all eight charges they found him guilty. on those eight guilty verdicts,
are these 18 counts settled or were they continued to be litigate inside that's one thing to watch. the second logistical thing to watch. after these convictions today on these eight felony charges, how much better or worse does manafort's fate look for his next felony trial which after all, starts in less than a month in federal court in d.c. this was manafort's trial in virginia. he is about to go on trial in federal court in d.c. less than a month from now. and believe it or not, tonight is the deadline for the prosecutors to submit their list of evidence that they are planning on using in that next case against manafort next month. we are expecting over the course of this evening, sometime tonight to get access to that evidence list. we're expecting that it will contain well over 1,000 individual pieces of evidence that prosecutors will use in their case against manafort next month. when we get that evidence list tonight, presumably it will land like an anvil on the manafort defense team. right? it will come just hours after
that your client was convicted on eight felony counts in a different federal court today. is that case over? how does it affect the next case? there's twos things to watch. basically logistical but it be fascinating watch both of those. the third thing on watch here when it comes to manafort. with these eight felony quikszs convictions today, trump campaign manager paul manafort is the facing a maximum snchbs 0 years in prison. he's probably looking at maybe seven to nine years. and he is about to face another felony trial against the same special counsel's office who just got him convicted on eight felonies and that's coming up in less than a month. you see where this is going. the last thing to watch when it comes to paul manafort is, whether being convicted today while staring down the evidence
in the next trial he's about to face in d.c., whether any of this is going to change paul manafort's own calculus about whether or not he might want to help prosecutors now. paul manafort, a lot of other people in the russia scandal have flipped and decided to help prosecutors. not manafort. he has not cooperated with prosecutors at all. if he decided now to start cooperating, his future would look very different. presumably, right? depending on the deal he was able to cut. depending on what he could offer information about. depending on how valuable it might be to prosecutors and any other investigations they are pursuing. the years in prison that he is now looking at as of today for the felonies of which he was convicted today, those years conceivably in a deal with prosecutors, those years might go away, as might the charges he's about to face in his new trial in court in washington, d.c. next month. we're going on get some expert advice on this.
another prosecution for perjury or making a facility statement? or making a false statement? michael cohen, i do, your honor. the judge, very well. for the record, what is your full name? michael cohen says, michael dean cohen. the judge, and at this time, mr. cohen, you may be seated and i would ask that you pull the microphone close to you. the defendant, thank you, your honor. >> mr. cohen, how old are you, sir? the defendant, in four days i'll be 52. the judge, how far did you go in school? >> law. >> the judge. are you able to read, white, speak and understand english. >> the defendant, yes, your honor. >> the judge. are you now or have you recently been under the care of a doctor or psychiatrist? >> the defendant. no, your honor. court, have you ever been treated or hospitalized for any mental illness or hospitalized for any addiction? >> no. >> the judge, in the past 24 hours have you taken any drugs, medicine or pills or have you consumed any alcohol? yes, your honor. the judge, what have you taken or consumed, sir? >> last night at dinner, i had a
glass of glenly vet 12 on the rocks. the judge, all right. is it your custom to do that? no, your honor. the judge, all right. have you had anything since that time? >> the defendant, no, your honor. is your mind clear today? yes. are you feeling all right? yes, sir. are you represented by counsel? >> i am. >> who are your attorneys? >> guy pet trillo and amy lester. >> mr. pet trillo, do you have any doubt as to your client's competence to plead at this time? >> i do not, your honor. >> judge, now, mr. cohen, your attorney has informed me that you wish to enter a plea of guilty. do you wish to enter a plea of guilty? defendant, yes, sir. the judge, have you had a full opportunity to discuss your case with your attorney and to discuss the consequences of a plea of guilty? yes, your honor. judge, are you satisfied with your attorneys, mr. petrillo in their representation of new this matter? >> the defendant, very much, sir. >> the judge, on the basis of mr. cohen's responses to my questions and my observations of his demeanor in the courtroom
this afternoon, i find that he is full competent and informed plea at this time. warned that he will be prosecuted for perjury if he gives any false statements at this hearing today. they then go through it. there is a long back and forth at this point about cohen understanding the nature his plea deal and the charges against him and the clear mind with which he is pleading guilty. he pleads guilty to eight felony charges today. felony tax evasion in five separate charges. making a false statement to a financial institution to get a loan that he shouldn't have otherwise gotten and then last two charges that blew the proverbial lid off the place today. as they're going through all the charges between the judge and the attorneys and mike cohen, just saying yes, your honor a lot as they're going through stuff, there comes this moment in today's hearing when the judge asks michael cohen to explain in his own words the
crimes he has commit and to which he is pleading guilty. the judge. mr. cohen, would you please tell me what you did in connection to each of the crimes to which are you entering a plea of guilty? michael cohen, yes, your honor. may i stand? the judge. you may. the defendant, thank you, sir. michael cohen. i also just jotted down some notes so that i can keep my focus and address this court in proper fashion. as to counts one through five, i evaded paying substantial taxes on certain income i received that i knew was not reflected on the return and that i caused to be filed. and then i won't read all the details but cohen says he how he knowingly lied to a bank that you applied for a loan. we learned he used it to pay off stormy daniels. we'll have more only later. but then we get to the part that led to front pages like this. this is the front page of the "new york times."
cohen pleads guilty implicating president. that's the front page of the "new york times" tonight. here's where that comes from in court today. ready? okay. michael cohen. thank you, your honor. as to count number seven, on or about the summer of 2016 in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, i and the ceo of a media company, at the request of the candidate, worked together to keep an individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and to the campaign from publicly disclosing this information. after a number of discussions, we eventually accomplished the goal by the media company entering into a contract with the individual under which she received compensation of $150,000. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principle purpose of influencing the election. the federal candidate in this case is the president of the united states. the election in this case is the
election that made him president of the united states. and this is the president's attorney, saying under oath, under penalty of perjury, that the president directed this illegal payoff during the campaign for the purposes of influencing the election. this count, number seven, is the karen mcdougal case. this is the woman who used to model forboy" magazine who said she had a long running affair with the president. michael cohen said in court today that the president directed him, michael cohen, and the ceo of a media company, which appears to be david pecker, the ceo of american media, the owner of "national enquirer," michael cohen said the president directed two of them to arrange a payment of $150,000 to karen mcdougal during the election. specifically for the purpose of influencing the election. now, that is something that has been reported in detail that you have heard about over months. that is now being charged as a felony. as an illegal corporate
contribution to the president's campaign. one that, according to this court proceeding today, was directed by the president himself. now, michael cohen is pleading guilty to his own role in that but he is directly implicating both the president of the united states and the executive david pecker in that same criminal act. so we'll have more on that in a second. but then here's the last count. and this part is probably even worse for the president at least the way i read it. back to the print. mike cohen. your honor, as to count number eight, on or about october of 2016, the month before the election, in coordination with and at the direction of the same candidate, i arranged to make a payment to a second individual with information that would be harmful to the candidate and the campaign to keep the individual from disclosing the information. to accomplish this i used a company that was under my control to make a payment in the
sum of $130,000. the moneys i advanced were later repaid to me by the candidate. i participated in this conduct which on my part took place in manhattan for the principal purpose of influencing the election. the reason he is saying, i did this in manhattan is because he is being charged by federal prosecutors. in the southern district of new york. that's essentially establishing their jurisdiction to charge him with these felonies. when he says he participated in this conduct for the principal purpose of influencing the election, that is identifying this felony as a campaign-related felony, a campaign finance felony. so the president's lawyer has pled guilty. in so doing, he implicates the president personally in arranging two illegal payoffs during the campaign for the purpose of influencing the outcome confident campaign. mr. cohen, michael cohen, will be going to jail for this conduct. but he has implicated the president in this criminal act as well.
and then after did he that, federal prosecutors told the judge they have lots of evidence to prove this crime. the judge asked the prosecutors to summarize its evidence on these charges that cohen has just described. the prosecution goes through all the evidence. ought barge charges all the bank charges and all the felony charges on which michael cohen implicates the president personally, he stands up and gives bullet points that are a list of evidence that the government has collected to prove those charges. quote, records obtained from a series of search warrants on olympian cohen's premises including hard copy documents, seized devices and audio recoveredings made by mr. cohen. we would also offer messages september and e-mails. via subpoena including records
from the reference and alsorenced in the information. finally we would offer testimony of witnesses including witnesses involved in the transactions in question who communicated with the defendant. now, that's the list of evidence that government says it has compiled to prove that case. they explain that they've got all that evidence to the judge today in court. but the government is not going to put that evidence on display in a trial against michael cohen because there's not going to be a trial because cohen has pled guilty. so cohen's plea and the court filings from prosecutors in this case, they implicate cohen. they also implicate the president in this same criminal behavior. cohen's guilty plea spelled it out, out loud in the transcript that i just read to you. it's also spelled out in even more detail in the criminal information document which the prosecutor was just referencing there in that quote that i just read. the criminal information document became public later this evening. it spells it out in even more detail.
it describes one or more members of the trump campaign coordinating with michael cohen to make these illegal payoffs. and this is interesting to me. it hasn't received a lot of attention today but i think it is worth focusing on. the president's company, his business, the trump organization, also appears to be implicated in the description of this crime. because it is the president's company that is apparently the entity that reimbursed michael cohen for the illegal payoff. it was $130,000 illegal payoff to stormy daniels. they not only reimbursed him for the payoff. they also paid him a lot more on top of the reimbursement. it is spelled out that michael cohen put out this $130,000 as the payoff but then trump organization, the president's business, paid him back not $130,000. they paid him back over $420,000 for having provided that service. and that service, of course, was
a felony for which mr. cohen will now go to prison. they paid him a lot of money to do that. i don't know if you can indict a president but i'm pretty sure you can indict the president's company company. so a big day. the indicted congressman today, congressman duncan hunter is very lucky to have had his criminal news land like a rain drop in this ocean of criminal news today about the president's campaign chair and his long time personal lawyer. both now as of today, convicted felons. the last day like this, march 1st, 1974, saw mr. nixon named as an unindicted is co-conspirator in criminal cases against his top aides. today there was no grand jury to do that kind of naming. but in the court filings around the michael cohen guilty pleas the president is implicated just as overtly as nixon ever was.
so now i have questions. i've laid out my questions on manafort. basically, how much time is manafort ultimately looking at? will that change his mind on flipping and cooperating? pretty simple. watch this space for that. including watch tonight for the publication of that list of evidence from the prosecution. manafort. but on cohen, tell me this. cohen and federal prosecutors in the southern southern district of new york, they implicate the president explicitly today in campaign violations with the secret payoffs. that's not the same thing as indicting the president for those charges. but what's the distance between implication by prosecutors, this explicit implication today, and indictment? like how do you travel that distance? and can you travel that what happens now that the president is named as someone involved in the commission of multiple felonies? where does that go? second question, michael cohen is not required to cooperate
with prosecutors as a condition of his plea agreement. why not? did prosecutors not want that? did michael cohen not want that? what does that mean? and third, where is the special counsel? robert mueller and his prosecutors at the special counsel's office reportedly initiated this investigation of michael cohen but then handed it off to the regular public corruption prosecutors at the u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york. the special counsel and his team of prosecutors appear nowhere in the hearing or in any of the hearings about michael cohen. does the special counsel's office want to talk to michael cohen? have they talked on michael cohen? does michael cohen have now or did he ever have an option to reduce his prison by talking to the special counsel's office about what he knows that might be helpful in their other ongoing investigations? i mean, cohen implicated the
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michael cohen did not sign a deal that obly guys him to cooperate with prosecutors today but he did plead guilty today in participation in two felonies related to the campaign. two campaign finance violations to when mr. cohen looks like he will expect to do jail time. is michael cohen done? there was no mention of the special counsel or the special counsel's ongoing investigations in his case today. is there any connection at all between the special counsel's work and what just happened to mr. cohen today? joining us now is lanny davis, michael cohen's personal attorney, former special white house counsel to bill clinton. i'm really happy that you're joining us here today. thank you for joining us. >> i want to say it's a long time i've wanted to be on your show.
i watch you all the time and i appreciate the invitation. >> thank you for saying that. i appreciate you being here. i know that you have a lot of other things to be doing tonight. your client pled guilty to eight counts today. it was a standard plea agreement as far as we can tell. not a cooperation agreement. was that an option for you and your client? why wasn't there any cooperation deal? >> well, there are certain things i can answer directly. so let me try to answer this indirectly. when i decided to represent mr. cohen, it was because he committed to me early on in many conversations that he wanted to tell the truth about donald trump. and we talked about what he knew about donald trump. this was one of the subjects. so whether i used the word cooperation or not, and my colleague guy pet trillo, will note answer to your question, it's truth that michael cohen is committed to and it's the truth that so threatens the president of the united states who has
consistently lied in fact on this issue, denied knowing about these payments until rudolph giuliani, his lawyer, waiving attorney-client privilege, said oh, he knew about the payments directly contrary to the lie on air force one. so to answer your question, mr. cohen be dedicated to telling the truth. if that amounts to the word cooperation, i'll leave that to my cohort, the great criminal defense lawyer guy pet trillo to explain. >> the special counsel's office, special counsel's robert mueller and any of the prosecutors don't appear anywhere in the court filings today. they weren't discussed in court. that makes them a looming presence in this story and what we know about the future of your client. the future of michael cohen. is there anything to do with the special counsel that was involved in this plea agreement today? has the special counsel approached michael cohen already
about whether he would like to speak some of that truth to their inquiry in addition to what he's just faced in sdny? >> so, i can't tell you the answer to that question about kaktz between mi about contacts between michael and the special counsel. but i can tell you that mr. cohen has knowledge on certain subjects that should be of interest to the special counsel and is more than happy to tell the special counsel all that he knows. not just about the obvious possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the american democracy system in the 2016 election, which the trump tower meeting was all about. but also, knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time about that crime and even cheered it on. we know that he publicly cheered it on. did he also have private information?
one thing to say about michael cohen, if i might, is that he's been through a very tough day. his wife and his two children and his family are, i would say, suffering from this type of event. so is michael. but in one very important respect, michael is relieved. he is a good man with a good heart that you've discovered. but he is relieved and liberated, is the word i would say to your audience. because now he has no shadow hanging over him. the uncertainty is gone. he has stepped up to the line and admitted what he did wrong but he is now liberated to tell the truth, everything about donald trump that he knows that led him to approach someone like me who he knows politically doesn't share anything with president trump. and from this point on, you're going to see liberated michael cohen speaking truth to power.
>> in terms of what you just said, i just want to underscore what you just referenced, that mr. cohen has information about the president and his advance knowledge of the crime of hacking during the campaign. and you're saying that mr. cohen, whether or not he has spoken to the special counsel's office, he would be happy to discuss that with the special counsel, separate and apart from everything that happened today in the southern district of new york? >> i hate to be overly legalistic with you, but i'm not going to confirm what knowledge michael has. i will confirm that mr. mueller, who i greatly respect, will have a lot of interest in what michael has to say. and by the way, on just the crime of directing somebody to commit a crime, as you pointed out in your opening, it was a crime for president trump to direct michael cohen to the crime of a campaign finance donation that exceeded the legal limitations. there is something else interesting that isn't so
obvious. why didn't president trump do this himself? why didn't he write or sign the check himself? was he covering up because he knew that there was something wrong in what he was doing so he directed his lawyer to do something that he didn't want anybody to know that he did? i think the answer to that question is obvious. so there's a cover-up here by our now president of the united states that is undeniable. he directed michael cohen to make this payment of $130,000. he didn't have the courage, or at least, didn't want to expose himself politically so soon before the election. so he directed his lawyer to do that which he was not willing to do. >> lanny davis, attorney for michael cohen, mr. davis, thank you for being here. i hope you'll come back. >> thank you for having me, rachel. much appreciated. to that last point that he was making about president trump directing michael cohen to make the payments instead of making
them himself, one of the things we learned is that when trump directed cohen to do it, it could not have been out of convenience. one of the other felonies to which michael cohen pled today was lying to a bank in order to get $130,000 home equity loan which is what he tapped to make the payment to stormy daniels which president trump had directed him to make. so it is not like michael cohen was the easy choice. michael cohen had to commit another felony in order to scratch the cash together to make that payment at the president's direction. he did get paid back handsomely for it but now he will go to jail for it. the question what will happen to the president for it? more to get to. stay with us. ♪[upbeat music]
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hotel room and office. that the fbi agents treated him very fairly then and he felt they treated him very fairly again in this deliberation and these talks. i feel like when we sort of step back from the timeline we've all been living in, you've had so much interesting reporting over the weeks and months about cohen. some others have had, reporting along the same lines about cohen. about his feelings about the president. about his likelihood that he would cooperate with prosecutors. that he would be willing to essentially flip after his longstanding relationship with donald trump. after reading all of that, and learning all of that over a period of months, you're now confirming today what seemed quite an apparent in court. you've confirmed it tonight in the "vanity fair" that cohen and prosecutors didn't talk until this last week. so there haven't been ongoing talks. >> there have been communications between his attorney and the government just basic communications, especially
his attorney receiving out and saying, hey. we're here. as you're going through documents, if you have any questions. but deliberations and specific discussions, from my reporting, i know they didn't really begin until last week. for weeks people have been saying, cohen is really quiet. cohen is really quiet. is it because there are conversations. he was out of the news cycle. why put himself back in? last week, that's when these conversations really began in earnest. >> and he pleads guilty today and there is no cooperation agreement that goes along with the plea. >> if you're only talking for the first time last week, and over the weekend, the beginning of this week, we know from all the very smart lawyers on this network all the time, that a cooperating agreement takes a lot of time. it takes a long, weeks if not months to get the witness to a place where they trust the witness, to work out all the details that you want to work out. if you're only starting this last week -- >> isn't that fascinating? prosecutors didn't want to start those conversations with him
earlier, that they didn't want to develop him into a cooperating witness. >> as you read the transcript from the beginning of the show, the government went through each charge and what evidence they had for each of those charges. if they were intent on bringing those charges, they had what they needed. they took more than 3 million documents from him in april. it seems like they had testimony from people. they had empanelled a grand jury and people were witnesses if not already testified. >> cohen today directly implicated the president in two felonies. to which he has pled guilty, to which serious jail time is attached. lanny davis just suggested on our air live that mr. cohen in addition to those remarkable statements today many court would be happy to speak with the special counsel on matters potentially including the president having advance knowledge of the crime that took place during the campaign, which was the hacking of documents
from the democratic party. that michael cohen may have knowledge that the president had advance warning of that happening and he would be happy to talk to special counsel about it. i'm b bumbling that in the way i say it. i'm still processing this. what can you add? >> mike cohen had a front row seat to a lot that was happening in trump taurg durirump tower d campaign and in the last decade. so that was the first time that i had heard that. the stuff about the trump tower meeting, about him knowing about the president having advance knowledge of the payments that he made. when i was on your show. i said to you the exact two things had come up in his initial interview with george stephanopoulos. and i said those aren't bread crumbs. those are loaves of bread. those are things that i know to be true that michael cohen had known. i had no advance knowledge of the hacking situation. would it surprise me a person like michael cohen who was in trump tower day in and day out
and had almost daily access to the president during that time would know that kind of information? no. >> and it is your expectation, if he knows that information, he will happily provide that information to the special counsel provided that they want it? >> from everything that i know, everything that i know from where michael cohen is, state of mind, how he feels about the president and what he wants to do going forward. if there is information that he knows that he believes will be helpful to the special counsel, there will be no hesitation in sharing it. >> emily jane fox, senior reporter for "vanity fair." mr. cohen is out on $500,000 bail until his sentencing in early december. i imagine, if you keep talking to him, you will continue to have some amazing reporting on this story. congratulations being first on so much of this. thanks. we'll be right back. stay with us.
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coordinationing with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office, there is no great mystery of who that candidate was. just in case, in the criminal information document filed by prosecutors that we got access to tonight, there was this description which leaves no doubt. quote, in or about january 2017, michael cohen began holding himself out as the personal attorney to individual one who at that point had become the president of the united states. so individual one, we can narrow it down. joining us now, paul fishman from the great state of new jersey. mr. fish man, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you for having me back. >> michael cohen and federal prosecutors implicated the president today in felonies to which mr. cohen has himself pled guilty and for which he expects to do jail time. what's the difference between implicating somebody in a crime and charging them with a crime, otherwise holding them accountable for a crime? >> oh look, before somebody gets charged you have to have proof
beyond a reasonable doubt to make that charge if you're a federal prosecutor. that's the standard for convicting and federal prosecutors don't actually bring charges until they have enough evidence to convict. michael cohen was obviously in that circumstance. if you read what happened in court, if you look at the detail of the criminal information which is beak a document that instead of indictment when somebody's pleading, if you look at that document, they had an enormous amount of evidence. an amount of detail about each of the crimes which he was charge and to which he pled guilty. they may not have the quite that much yet about the preds of the united states. that's one reason. the second is, they may be subscribing to the same view they can't indict the president of the united states or maybe the southern district of new york office shouldn't be the one to make that decision. the fact that the president hasn't been charged doesn't mean there's not enough evidence. what michael cohen aloe acuted to is not just his own crimes,
he effective lili admitted to a conspiracy. that makes the president an unindict co-conspirator. >> >>. >> what are the material implications of that? >> the reason the designation has to do with what statements by other people you can get into evidence under certain circumstances, the statement of unindicted co-conspirators can come in trial against a defendant. >> it helps with the hearsay. >> exactly. so that's why he's not named that way. it is justice department policy not to give the names of people in charging documents like that who have not yet been charged which is why the president isn't named himself. >> technically he's described within an inch of his life. >> it's interesting in the charges, it says that cohen was working with one or more members of the campaign which may not necessarily be just the president of the united states. maybe other people, as well. we may see other things coming
out of this afterwards. we don't know yet. >> am i right if the president is and defacto unindict co-conspirator in these two felonies that might have implications legally if the president tried to pardon one of his alleged co-conspirators? >> it certainly makes it look worse. if you have an interest in not having someone cooperate against you, if someone has evidence that would implicate you that makes the reasons for your pardon so much more suspicious. that's why people are exercised about the idea he would do that here. what's also interesting about what happened today is when cohen was asked what he did, he talked about the tax evasion and making false statement to the bank in order to get the loan. he talked about the two campaign violations. the information the charging document doesn't say anything about the fact that he was directed to do there by the president. he said that on his own. he said it in what sounded to
me, i wasn't there but reading at trupt like a prepared statement. it's very hard for me to believe that he made that prepared statement without his lawyers having shown it to the prosecutors so that they weren't surprised by it. so my guess is they knew that was coming, too. >> a rackable set of charges today. who the only for mr. cohen but obviously because of what it means for the president what, it literally means for the president we have yet to find out. >> i don't think the fact that the special counsel wasn't around doesn't mean he's not talked to them. there's plenty of time for that. if it turns out later he does cooperate, the special counsel can let the sentencing court know about the extent of that cop of cooperation. >> a few minutes ago his lawyer offered he would like to talk to the special counsel some important stuff. more ahead tonight. stay with us.
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which they couldn't come to consensus that tells you about how the case against manafort went and was received by that jury? >> it's hard to know exactly what was going on. we know they convicted on all of the tax counts and so that suggests that you know, that was one where they were all in agreement and didn't have a problem with. they did not convict on most of the f bar accounts. this is the failure to identify foreign bank accounts. only one of those counts. and then they acquitted on -- or were hung on a number of the bank fraud counts. they did convict on two of them. the one that -- the significant one they did not convict on was the one out of the federal savings bank out of chicago involving steven steven calk, the one in discussions with paul manafort asking to become secretary of the treasury or secretary of the army. one theory there is i wonder if they didn't consider that more of an inside job because steven
calk was involved and that's solely in the hands of paul manafort. hard to read what's going on. and again, it could be just one juror who was holding out on those. but nonetheless, paul manafort was convicted of eight felonies and i would consider it a significant victory for the special counsel. >> do you expect on the ten counts on which there was a hung jury that the prosecution will try to bring those charges against manafort again? will they go back and try again with a different jury? >> i don't know. but i would suspect not. i think they won significant convictions today with the eight. the sentence is likely to be significant with just those convictions. and the judge is permitted to impose a sentence that includes what's known as relevant conduct under the sentencing guidelines. so if he finds by a preponderance of the evidence, a much lower standard than the jury had to find, that manafort committed those additional crimes, then he is allowed to consider them in imposing sentence. so often that they have much to gain by retrying the case. so if it were me, i would not. they may have other reasons they want to go forward. >> and briefly, barb, do you
think that the special counsel's office will go back to manafort's team now and talk to them again about whether he might want to flip and become a cooperating witness? rather than face the second trial in d.c. and hopefully not have to face all those years in prison he's looking at after those ought convictions today? >> i do. in fact, if i were manafort's lawyer i would be advising manafort, this is your moment. i know you wanted to wait as long as possible, but this is it. this is your time. if you ever want to cooperate, now is your opportunity. maybe you could work out a deal where the d.c. case gets dismissed, you ask for a reduced sentence in this case and you agree to cooperate. and i think from robert mueller's perspective it would be worth it because even if paul manafort doesn't have anything incriminating i think robert mueller's quest is to get to the truth and paul manafort certainly knows a lot of what happened. he was present at that june 2016 meeting at trump tower. he has all the connections with the russians and the ukrainians and so it seems that he's in a position to know a lot of what was happening with regard to any connections with russia. so i think we might see that.
Chris Hayes discusses the day's top news.
collude and corrupt the american democracy system in the 2016 election which the trump tower meeting was all about. but also, knowledge about the computer crime of hacking and whether or not mr. trump knew ahead of time. >> lanny davis will be joining me in just a moment. so stick around. the president's involvement of a federal crime. despite having been caught, his role. despite the audio tape we have all heard, the president and cohen planning the mcdougal payment. the president says he didn't know about the hush money until after the facts. >> did you know about the payments? >> later on, i knew. later on i knew. but you have to understand ainsley, what he did, and they
lawyer and assistance to tell a story. >> that is useful, but the legal question here is michael flynn pleaded guilty and cooperated and we never heard about it sort of on the outside. just strange to me, our conversations already happening to mueller. has michael cohen already talked to the investigators? >> i can't answer that question. i have to, unfortunately there are several key questions that i am not able to answer, chris. but i can say that his commitment is to tell everything he knows and tell the truth. he felt on july 2nd when this began that he wanted to hit the reset button for his life in telling the truth and expressing his concerns about donald trump as president.
so he is committed in telling the truth whether it is the special counsel mr. mueller, owning up to his responsibilities as difficult as it was to the southern district prosecutors. and as you noted in the opening report, he has accepted the fact that he is responsible, pled guilty and he is going to go and be incarcerated. >> you think he is going to do jail time? >> yes, i believe that is the case. there is no understanding to the contrary. >> when he says, he says he is doing this for his family, what does that mean? is his family at all exposed legally? >> well, they are suffering personally from two children about dad, wonderful wife looking at husband and father going to prison. they are also suffering deeply
from economic adversity and absent resources. they are living in a hotel only because there was a flood in their apartment from the apartment above. >> sorry. i want to zoom in on the question. are there people in the family who face legal exposure? >> no i don't believe you. i'm sorry i misunderstood your question. the economic distress is clear. >> he furnished the audio tape which has proved to be an important piece of evidence. does he have in his possession other pieces of evidence whether they be documents or recordings that would implicate the president in criminal activity? >> i don't know the answer to that question. even if i did, i couldn't tell you as the investigation
continues, both mr. mueller as well as the southern district prosecutors continue to examine the facts now. now we have the attorney general in new york. and there is an awkwardness to my doing as you said, all of these television shows there, is so much that i can't respond to. >> i will ask you about michael cohen's reputation which you say you are trying to defend. he pleaded to a federal crime that involved an extremely significant act in furthering the election of donald trump by committing felonies that help to get donald trump elected. do you understand why people do not view him as some kind of object of sympathy or you know, heroism because what he did was extremely damaging to, in the views of millions of americans. >> i not only understand, that is the challenge of what i do as a profession. people don't come to me and say
i have great news for you. they come to me with troubles. and i try to start with the basics of taking responsibility, explaining the reasons why mistakes were made and serious ones in the case of mr. cohen and then try to set things right. the most important thing i have tried to do starting with july 2nd in the interview. >> to help understand the president's legal jeopardy, joined by jill win-banks and jeff ackerman. what is the legal applications. >> we don't know what -- i can't believe that he would have pled guilty to exposure of almost six
years in prison without having some knowledge that he has got information that would be helpful to the mueller investigation. it is inconceivable to me that that would not have been discussed beforehand. >> also, jill, what is striking to me, the trump orb shows up. executives are named in there. what is the significance of that. >> well the significance of that of course is that the corporation could also be found for tax violations. for example, if they reduced their payable taxes by claiming
that the legal fees paid to michael cohen which were phony legal fees, and they were actually hush money, if they deducted that, that is a violation of the tax code. but you hit on the main question that i have about this whole thing which is if he really wants to cooperate, why is he doing it through the public? why didn't lanny davis call up the mueller office and say hi, we would like to come up and make a proffer. that is the normal way to do it. when john dean was cooperating, he called and said i want to come in and make a proffer. he talked to us. and told us what he wanted to say. and that is when he started cooperating. >> the idea that he came a come to jesus doesn't stand for a second. he was forced for some reason. >> they were coming up with major bank fraud charges. he was facing huge amounts of prison time just like paul
that happened in watergate. they are deliberately trying, even if you can't prove that they worked with the russian government which seemed to me there is plenty of evidence of that too. just on this alone, they were deliberately trying to conceal information that would influence the election and help him win election >> jill is absolutely on the spot there. you have to look at what happened in the context of everything else that was going on in the campaign at the time. the "access hollywood" tape. all of these women coming out of the wood work that was accusing trump. trump was calling them liars. you had lots of controversy just before the comey tape came out. so all of this happened in that context and it wasn't only when he was running for office but after he was elected, they are still going through this. phonying up documents. >> while he is the sitting president. reimbursing him on monthly basis.
>> phony documents, phony invoices. this is something that is right out of the organized crime book. this looks more like a mafia family than it does the president of the united states and the first family. >> not only that -- yeah. go ahead. >> i can't understand how congress can let this happen and do nothing and for any congressman to say it is up to the legal system, it is up to the legal system but it is also up to congress. this is clearly impeachable offenses. a president that is out of control and conducting himself that is hurting america dramatically and something has to be done about it. >> they have a neat two-step they do. the president can't be indicted and then they say no charges. bounce back and forth. great to have you both. how will congress proceed in
simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. now the president's long time attorney general and closest associates admitted in court that donald trump directed him to exit a felony. congress is left with the question what to do with that information. republicans have the power to open an investigation of course into trump's alleged involvement but no indication they will do that. democrats on the other hand want to use the opportunity to delay the confirmation process of supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. >> the kavanaugh hearing should be postponed. >> i choose not to extend the courtesy to this president. >> we should not be right now
confirming any supreme court justice. >> the senate judiciary should immediately pause the consideration of the kavanaugh nomination. >> joining me now is chris murphy democrat. do you agree with your colleagues? >> there are lots of reasons we should be pressing the pause. there seems to be a reason why republicans are holding back some of the most important documents from his time in the white house. and clearly some important questions to be answered. we need kavanaugh to be open with us. and whether he believes that presidents need to answer subpoenas. the most likely question that is going to come in a supreme court is going to be over an argument on whether donald trump needs to testify to mueller.
it is increasingly unlikely that trump's lawyers want him to get into a position to perjure himself. seems to be one that kavanaugh has to answer and i would hope republicans and democrats would agree he has to answer that question affirmatively before getting confirmed. >> there is a broader question about how you take the facts that you are learning and the questions, the profound questions about the president's legitimacy to be quite frank and deal with being a member of the senate. is there a fact pattern at which everything should stop? >> yeah, so i think that is a really important question and one that i am grappling with in real time. it is somewhat of an arbitrary distinction to say the supreme court hearing process should stop but the president should be
able to go on appointing other judges, running the armed forces and making all sorts of decisions. ultimately the founding fathers gave the power, the power of impeachment. so i guess i do worry about congress deciding that the president has lost legitimacy absent an impeachment conversation. and so listen, we will get a report from mueller and when we do, we will have that conversation. but before that, i think the difficult thing to decide. >> let me ask you this, there are people who say, and i think they have a decent argument that what was alleged, sworn to in federal court yesterday and seems to be endorsed by the southern district is itself is an impeachable defense. are they right? >> well, i think it is important for us to have in front of us,
the evidence that leads the prosecutor to that decision. now we have cohen's testimony but we may other evidence whether it is documents or audio tape to that affect as well. the reason that some of us are punting on that question a little bit today is because we take the indictment at face value and we think that we need all of the evidence before us. >> you are punting on it because you are worried about the politics, isn't that the sub text here? >> a good reason why want mueller to provide us with a report. we want all of the facts in front of you. republicans are wrong because -- i think it is important for us to have all of the facts in front of us. and mueller, has to think at this point about giving us preliminary findings. i mean, there is nothing that stops mueller from saying here is what i know right now and continue on other things.
>> from a transparency stand point, i'm a journalist. with all of us operating with some big thing in a black box that we can't see seems almost maddening. there are some set of facts that we need what happened one a or another. >> process to give us information and what happened yesterday probably compels him to show some cards. not all, but some cards to the extent of what is a proper address to congress. >> and that need will increase because as we were talking about, it will be hard for congress to decide what functions are legitimate going forward and what are illegitimate.
>> the president tweeted this morning some kind words. justice took a 12-year-old tax case among other things and applied tremendous pressure on him and unlike michael cohen he refused to break. what signals have to be sent from your colleagues to be sent. >> and i think republicans need to say to trump effectively what they said on the mueller investigation. republicans give clear signals to trump about six months ago that the red line was the firing of mueller. and that is in part why the investigation proceeds. they have got to say the same thing about a pardon to manafort and that tweet makes it clear to everyone what the reason for that pardon would be. manafort's success in refusing to cooperate. he effectively admitted in that tweet why we would pardon him.
so i haven't heard that definitively from republicans today and what we know is unless republicans draw that line, is trump is going to take advantage of that. thank you. we know of two apparent criminal conspiracies that both worked to get donald trump elected. the uncharted territory the country is in next.
hacking the dnc distributing e-mails. to help trump get elected. michael cohen says he was directed by donald trump to illegally cover up damaging information in order to help get trump elected. i am joined by charlie pierce who compared what happened to watergate and jess mckintosh. >> and i want to start with you jess. we learned yesterday in federal court that there was a criminal conspiracy to cover up damaging information. and i wanted the timing here. the "wall street journal" ran a
story the the release of that made it more urgent that those stories not come out. what do you think about that? >> i think that donald trump's president is illegitimate. it means if you break u.s. laws to get the white house you are not a legitimate president. >> what does that word mean? chris murphy said i am uncomfortable about using the word illegitimate. >> i am using it rhetorically. i know the founders didn't put anything in place. that is what we are dealing with right now. that is the reality of the situation. it is upon all of the democrats that are in office to make a lot of noise and for americans to make a lot of noise. it involves being in the treats and very loud.
especially if we know that he is trying to appoint one who believes that a president can't be investigated or indicted and will probably have to rule on that. >> very soon. >> charlie, you compared this to watergate. and nixon trounced mcgovern by such a margin, that they didn't run the conspiracy, but it is not to run that thought experiment in this case. >> you are absolutely right. and i want to point out and i think jeffrey tubin was the first to point it out. but what michael cohen did in court yesterday which is basically to incriminate the president, none of the watergate guys did that. even john dean didn't do that in front of the senate.
he laid out the fact and let you draw out your own conclusions. but michael cohen went under oath and accused the president of the united states of violating the law. and that is a step up from watergate. >> you are a campaign finance expert and have reported on it for a while and an argument you have seen floated and emerge, oh, everybody is breaking campaign finance law here and there. does that stand for you? >> no. no one does this. this is super rare. there are lots of paper violations of campaign finance laws and they are civil and it is like speeding. they are often accidental. people give too much money by accident because they send in three checks instead of two. and we have a totally different thing here. knowful and willful violation of campaign.
people go to jail for that. it doesn't get prosecuted as often as you think. and somebody sets out, let's hide this money. that is against the law and it is criminal. >> it was hiding a scandal so nobody would know. the money was being hidden but what really was being hidden was the multiple mistresses. and reported it, then it would be reported. so not like an accident and we decided to do it this way. >> speaking of coming at it from the hillary clinton campaign perspective, that day, that the "access hollywood" tape drop, which we did not realize that that was the day michael cohen stormy daniels payments.
both criminal conspiracies that were in the works to elect donald trump saw what happened with the "access hollywood" tape and saw that it was going to take him down and republicans were fleeing and they both went to work to stop it. >> if they had padded these payments into the legal payments, and had don mcgahn's law firm to pay it, no one would have none and it is bone headed. >> yeah. charlie? >> a couple of things if you take a step back that is going on here. without our completely ben jaxed campaign system. you wouldn't have this lagoon of money sloshing around. everything that happened yesterday including the utterly amazing duncan hunter indictment. all of that has to do with a rotten to the core campaign finance system and the other
thing is, and chris, you may have mentioned this on twitter, and i say this in context of the prisoner strike today. we do a rotten job prosecuting white collar crime. >> yes there, is a national prison strike happening right now. millions of people behind bars day in and day out for all kinds of offenses. manafort and cohen were doing these things for years. >> the way that white supremacy works is it starts by saying who laws are applicable to. you set a law and only certain people have to follow it. law and nothing happens. right now we are seeing a president who has broken the law and his inner circle who has
broken the law and they are taking babies away from parent who is have committed misdemeanors crossing the border without documentation. >> i can't help but wonder how many unprosecuted paul manaforts and and michael cohens are out there. are a distinct kind or a larger cohort that gets away with it because they are not close to the president of the united states. >> my suspicion is this kind of money laundering and shell moving, is ubiquitous. and by understanding how ubiquitous it is, those mechanisms are everywhere. and not only for criminal
>> charlie, what one thing strikes me is how much the language of mob movies and cop dramas are the language of this president and inner circles. flip, he didn't break, rat, all of that stuff. it is remarkable. >> it is the argot. they want to talk like these guys. you have rudy giuliani out there behaving like one of the crazy defense attorneys from "law and order." at least the president has defined his persona by the character he plays on television. borrow are dialogue from cheap mob movies. i wait for rudy giuliani to come
on somebody's show and drop a dead fish on the desk. >> thank you all. still ahead, congresswoman maxine waters on the president's collection of indictments. speaking of endorsing, no one does it better than the president. that is tonight's thing one, thing two. next.
thing one tonight donald trump's rallying in west virginia was a bit muted for obvious reasons but found one thing to get excited about. >> in my record, look, i don't want to brag about it, but man, do i have a good record of endorsements. they said if you get an endorsement from ronald reagan, it was a wonderful thing to have but it didn't move the needle. i am not saying it from my standpoint, they are going 20, 30, 40, 50 points. it's crazy. and then you watch the news. will this endorsement mean anything. it is going to mean a lot. >> it's true. donald trump is really good at endorsements just ask this guy. >> wyoming has smiled on me and my family.
and now i am running for government. i know what it takes to foster to raise taxes. >> how did foster fair with trump's complete and total endorse amount, think two in 60 seconds.
>> they are going 20, 30, 40, 50 points. it's crazy. >> so last night was the big election. did foster friess win? >> billionaire foster freiss falls short. beaten by mark gordon in the gop primary. >> i don't want to brag about it, but man, do i have a good record of endorsement. each of us is different. and each cancer is different. how it reacts, how it evades and adapts. and how we attack it. that's why at cancer treatment centers of america, we use diagnostic tools that help us better understand what drives each person's cancer. this is what we mean by outsmarting cancer.
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so a huge story that got buried yesterday. it involves a second member of congress. congressman duncan hunter, republican from california. >> duncan, thank you very much. you better vote for these guys forever, we are never letting them go >> the only member of now, duncan hunter is once again following in chris collins footsteps. hunter and his wife were indicted yesterday on dozens of federal criminal charges accusing them of pilfering more
than a quarter million dollars in campaign funds and trying to cover it up by filing false records with the sec. they golfed, they bought makeup, they paid for airline tickets for friends and relatives and invested in tequila shots and gourmet steaks. the hunters overdrew their bank accounts more than a thousand times. some details are bananas. when hunter told margaret that he was planning to buy my hawaii shorts they could falsely describe it later as some golf balls for the wounded warriors. calling the prosecution a witch hunt led by a corrupt justice department. >> this is the new department of justice. this is the democrats' arm of law enforcement.
that's what happened right now. it happened with trump and with me. >> fact check, jeff sessions does run the justice department. i'll ask another member, congresswoman maxine waters about the corrupt trump --
criminal, has surrounded himself with criminals. i would wonder about your thinking after yesterday. >> i'm thinking this is just the tip of the iceberg, that, yes, manafort was convicted on eight counts and cohen came in and pleaded guilty to eight counts. i have felt this, basically taken a look at this whole crowd, these allies of the president, their relationship to putin, their relationship to the kremlin and oligarches and relationships that will come out with money laundering. i expect this to unfold. i think it will keep unfolding and we will find there's more criminality among this group. there will be more convictions, and, yes, the president is involved.
>> i want to ask you a political question. there's a certain line of thinking that says people couldn't care about the mueller probe, they don't care about the russia stuff or even manafort and stuff. i thought this was interesting, two polls from forks today, mueller's approval rating is quite good. 59% approve and 37% disapprove. the congressional ballot gap is 49% to 38%. do you think democrats should talk about these issues on the campaign trail in the mid-terms? >> i've always felt we could walk and chew gum at the same time. i know some of the democrats are saying, please don't mention the word impeachment, don't worry about the investigation, let mueller take care of that. we have to talk about our issues. we can do both, talk about healthcare and obamacare and medicaid and medicare, we can talk about the infrastructure and how it needs to be built up. we can talk about all of these
things at the same time. we can't turn a blind eye to this president who is destroying this country. this president, the leader of this country, comes to us with a reputation. this is a man who comes with a reputation of not paying his contractors, cheating subcontractors with a fake university, where he cheated students who thought they were going to learn how to become developers. this is a man who has come with the kind of reputation, racism, coding applications for apartments that -- so they would not have to rent them to african-americans and people of color. this is a man who has demonstrated, in more than several ways who he is. he is a flawed character. i think for us to sit blindly by and pretend we don't have to deal with it, somebody else is going to sit it in our laps, really does not speak to what we're thinking about our
responsibility in the congress of the united states of america. and so i think we can do both. that's what i've been doing. >> there are two members of congress republicans have been indicted, chris collins and duncan hunter, early supporters of the president. obviously the president has people around him indicted or pleaded. as democrats take a message about corruption to voters, i want to ask about menendez, a sitting senator from new jersey. backed by the democratic party, had a federal trial that evolved around corruption charges. was it a mistake for democrats to anonymously back menendez given what you're seeing on corruption developed? >> let me say this. both on the democratic side and republican side, these are individuals who have decided to take certain actions that are criminal.
i don't say that trump was somehow, you know, in collusion with hunter, i say that he was in collusion with putin and with the kremlin and oligarches. these individual problems that pop up on either side of the aisle are basically that. individuals who decided to make bad decisions about how they handle themselves. in the case of menendez, he was exonerated. >> he wasn't exonerated, it was a mistrial. >> mistrial, all right. >> congresswoman, maxine waters, thanks for your time.