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They are starting with conclusions of wrongdoing. something jr. nefarious has gone out with this white house. thats exactly what they are saying at that level. thats not a goo a policy. howie: others confirmed about jared kushner offering to set up a secret communications channel with the russians, and this is according to u.s. intercept. the question is, thats kind of interesting, maybe it was a naive move on his part. is there anything nefarious in the incoming administration or is this a case...

Much worse than whats going on. they are starting with conclusions of wrongdoing. something jr. nefarious has gone out with this white house. thats exactly what they are saying at that level. thats not a goo a policy. howie: others confirmed about jared kushner offering to set up a secret communications channel with the russians, and this is according to u.s. intercept. the question is, thats kind of interesting, maybe it was a naive move on his part. is there anything nefarious in the incoming ...

Is his personal lawyer, hes a new york corporate lawyer whos handled new york corporate cases. he is not a lawyer who specializes in these kinds of investigations you have in washington. i can understand mr. trump wanting a lawyer who he personally trusts, but he -- mr. cassowitz has got to add some lawyers who are expert in document retrieval, investigation, subpoenas in washington or hes going to remain vulnerable. paul: and hes known as a guy who really fights which you might want -- on the o...

Elicit. so thats the kind of thinking youd be going through, and you wouldnt come to firm conclusions until you turned over all the rocks and heard from everyone, which is, again, one of the reasons i find this frustrating, is when you have something in the intelligence world that requires investigation, it doesnt take you too long to get to the bottom of it, because basically get everyone in a room and say what actually happened here. so, i think here the question of motive is interesting. it c...

Michigan. its good to have you here. your first reaction to what secretary kelly is saying, he doesnt see anything wrong with jared kushner and this alleged attempt to create a secret covert channel >> its a bit shocking somebody in that position and responsibility would dismiss what could be a significant problem and one of the many reasons that i and others think this needs to be taken out of the hands of congress and out of the hands of the administration and have an independent commission th...

Campaign with rauussia. that didnt pan out. oh we have discussions going on during the transition. if this stuff was going on during the transition, din does that blow a hole in the concept of collusion during the campaign? >> no, because they had an investigation we didnt know about during the sumer and it went into -- you wait. comey had an open investigation into trump in collusion in the summer. we did not know about it. there say ton of classified information we still dont know due to the f...

And extent to which the trump team was engaging in conpir toerl behavior before president trump took the oath of office. >> even the russian ambassador kislyak was taken aback reportedly about this proposed back channel by way of using a russian interest and we heard from general mcmaster of the nsa who said back channel communication with a number of countries is, you know, is pretty normal. you even said there were already, you know -- theres support system in place, why not use whats already ...

Channels for communication is not something out of the ordinary. we will take his word as gospel in this case because he understand the need for these back channel communications and you also had a foreign reporter with "the washington post" who outlined something really important its not unusual for russia to insert inaccurate and false information in a channel of communication that they know is being monitored by analysts in order to cause confusion in a situation like this. so we also have to...

Is his personal lawyer, hes a new york corporate lawyer whos handled new york corporate cases. he is not a lawyer who specializes in these kinds of investigations you have in washington. i can understand mr. trump wanting a lawyer who he personally trusts, but he -- mr. cassowitz has got to add some lawyers who are expert in document retrieval, investigation, subpoenas in washington or hes going to remain vulnerable. paul: and hes known as a guy who really fights which you might want -- on the o...

He thought that was inappropriate. a bridge too far, big words. is that accurate at this point, that this could be espionage? >> it could be, and i think the press does have to be careful about getting ahead of ourselves. theres enough real news and cause for concern to prevent us from jumping to too many conclusions. this is extraordinarily disturbing. >> plus the lawyer pushing back saying, oh, mr. kushner made thousands of calls. he doesnt remember, have a recollection of this. i would think ...