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Speakership may be in danger anyway going into 2014, not necessarily because democrats take over but a threat from his own caucus, why accidedoesnt h decide to do the right thing for his party and country and work with nancy pelosi and the democrats to avoid a government shut down right now? >> i wouldnt be surprised if thats the way it ends. i think you raise an interesting point, beyond this whole -- the focus of course has been on the controversy over de-funding obama care. but beyond that, t...

Cramer, for the republican party to get candidates who believe the way you do that are obamacare is a pernicious law and should be defunded and basically thrown out? have them run on that ticket, all right? and then win as mr. blakeman suggests. and then accumulate power so that you might do something. but again, president obama will veto. hes in there for three years. going to veto anything. wouldnt that make more strategy cal sense, ms. cramer? >> i think we are fighting on that front, too, we...

We talk about continuing resolutions, it goes until the midnight hour, and what happens? the c.r. is passed. republicans are making symbolic votes in keeping with the american people as far as what they believe, their thoughts on obamacare are. but this isnt the mechanism by which you will amend or kill obamacare. thatll come at another time, another place, another debate. i happen to think the senate will vote down, of course, the house as far as defunding obamacare. the president, assuming the...

Boehner, chris. i think speaker boehners power right now is so fragile, if he actually has to break the hastert rule on the cr or debt limit, the chances for immigration reform will be very small. and speaker boehner right now is just trying to survive. hes going to his conference every day and saying, just try to come with me. im throwing you a bone with this vote on friday, but eventually well have to come together. >> finally and quickly, why do they hate ted cruz so much? i cannot get over t...

>> so it goes to the senate. it comes back to you. it comes back in two parts. one is for the cr. the other part is for the defunding of obama care. would you support that after it has failed in the senate? >> listen, thats -- its hard to predict what may come back from the senate. weve not seen any plan for the senate. so im not going to guess at what might come back. >> okay. >> i think we have an opportunity here to keep government open and to stop obama cares troubles for the american people...

If the idea is to get through the cr and use the debt ceiling as leverage, what suggests to them that the president will be anymore willing to take a hatchet to obama care then than he is now? >> thats exactly right. and the white house is in a better strategic position now than they were in the summer of 2011, when they did deal on the debt limit. now the president just won re-election, and he has a senate majority. heres the question for boehner. can he break the so-called hastert rule. will h...

Viviana as well as bill. appreciate your perspectives. >> thank you. >> you can find more from our panel on our website, tv.msnbc.com. follow the think to thomas roberts. the conversation is not over. well talk to democratic congressman john yarmuth of kentucky about how some democrats may be voting for the cr that is up for vote right now. while the shutdown showdown unfolds on capitol hill, president obama is about to land in missouri to give a speech on the economy. hell tour a ford plant...

Cramer, for the republican party to get candidates who believe the way you do that are obamacare is a pernicious law and should be defunded and basically thrown out? have them run on that ticket, all right? and then win as mr. blakeman suggests. and then accumulate power so that you might do something. but again, president obama will veto. hes in there for three years. going to veto anything. wouldnt that make more strategy cal sense, ms. cramer? >> i think we are fighting on that front, too, we...

Speaker john boehner is putting pressure on senator cruz and other senate conservatives to fall through. to get the votes for defunding, but of course we know thats going to be very difficult. >> heres the thing. the reason that the drama seems so high and the reason that people are now going at each other in the public spotlight is everyone understands, they are now all collectively pursuing a doomed strategy. i mean, is that realization dawning on everyone? >> thats exactly right. theres reall...

That may be something that the senate determines as the senate passes something that does include a cr. >> and nonetheless, speaker boehner is fired up speaking that the vote was a vote for common sense and most are saying, this is just a complete waste of time in all reality. next week you could have the 46 gop senators vote not to fund obama care and it would still pass. the question now becomes, molly, how will this play out in the house? we know its not going to make it through the senate. h...