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it began, authorities say, at the electrical fire. chris? >> ivan, unfortunately we have too much experience with what the variables are here. so what do we know about how much equipment they had for emergencies in this mine and what the chance that there are air pocket where's people can sustain life for a while under ground? what are they saying? >> well, chris, the authorities say they're pumping air down into the mine shaft. of course, that's a big problem. the oxygen supply just disappears when you have an underground fire like this. one of the -- on the scene, he says that there's no communication thus far with the miners that are still believed to be trapped down there. one of the big concerns is that the safety record of this particular mine. just about 2 1/2 years ago a lawmaker from this region submitted a proposal in the turkish parliament calling for an investigation of this very mine because of safety concerns there. it was overturned, voted down in parliament just 2 1/2 weeks ago. and now we have again what could be the deadliest mining disaster in turkish history with more than 200 people dead already and serious fears that that number could go up as well. we see a community here that is is clearly devastated by the catastrophe, chris. >> a big portion of this immediate area works in this mine. there's going to be every family there that is connected to this situation. overnight we are watching footage of the rescues. some of the men coming up are walking, others are on stretchers. what is the information about what the condition were of people they were able to save overnight? >> the main cause of death that we've heard from authorities thus far has been smoke inhalation. you're trapped deep under ground. you're in enclosed space. there's a raging fire. this morning the fires were still burning. and that, in fact, they had to try to find a way to pump out some of the smoke so that the rescue teams could go in because it could be dangerous for them, as well. so it sounds logistically this is a very difficult and dangerous operation. and the fact that it was an electrical fire suggests that the power supplies down to the bottom of the coal shaft, that they were probably interrupted by this fire which would have made it also very difficult perhaps to not only get lighting down there but operate elevators up and down. we're trying to more information from the turkish authorities. they've been updating people periodically. the sad thing has been watching the vigil of hundreds of relatives and family members not only outside the hospital where some of the wounded who have been rescued have been brought to but also outside the mine itself where the frantic rescue operation is under way. these people waiting, praying for some news that their loved ones will come out safe and sound. but it has been a really horrific night for this community and for turkey as well. the flags are flying at half-mast across this province. i've seen a massive deployment of riot police, security forces, as well, throughout this area. as some people are starting to get very frustrated and start to hurl accusations just who is at fault in this deadly mining disaster. chris? >> not a surprise. ivan, i'll let you get back to the work of reporting. the idea of a fire in the mine, the experts who do firefightering in these situations will tell you it's the worst variable to deal with because of what fire hazards are a give and take. it gives smoke which chokes you out in a closed space and it takes in oxygen which is feeding the fire. that's a very bad situation for them to deal with. >> some hope that they're getting somes are cues overnight. we'll see what they find obviously as today as well. we'll continue to cover that throughout the morning. let's turn to cnn exclusive. magic johnson responding to donald sterling. the nba legend says he felt he had to speak up because sterling made the issue about race, not just about him. after making those racist comments, sterling lashed out at magic johnson in a separate cnn exclues i. saying johnson should be ashamed for contracting hiv and also claiming that johnson hasn't helped or hasn't reached out to the black community. listen to what johnson told ander son cooper about the bizarre remarks and the picture that sparked the controversy. >> it was or of disappointing but i had to respond in terms of, okay, you don't want me to come no to your games. i won't come to your games. you don't have to worry about that. but also i was upset because he threw the minorities in, african-americans, latinos into this situation. so i had to speak up. i'm one of the leaders of the black community so i can't let anybody attack our people and not respond. and so that's why i responded. >> when -- first of all, you said you were photographed with v. stiviano, probably photographed with -- >> millions of people. >> -- millions of people. he claimed in this interview that i did with him the other day, you knew her, you knew her well. >> these are the facts. i never met this young lady. i took a picture with her probably, looked like at a dad jer game. that's it. that's all i know of her. you know, and then he said i'm trying to set him up. how am i trying to set him up? he asked me to go on the barbara walters show with him. >> this is a week ago? >> a week ago. >> because he met with barbara walters on a friday. >> it was before that. i told him i wouldn't do it. i said, the number one thing you need to do, which you haven't done, is apologize to everybody and myself. i'll get to that. i'll get to that. >> so he wanted you to go on with barbara walters sitting next to him? >> sitting next to him. >> to kind of give him cover? >> exactly. so i said no. then i told him, i said, donald, you should consult with your attorneys. i said, this thing is a big thing. and you should deal with your attorneys and let them advise you on what to do. but i said, you need to go public and apologize to everybody. >> how did he respond? >> i, i, i will apologize later but i want you to go on this show. he was adamant about me going on this show with him. i told him no, i wouldn't do it. that's what happened. this is really weird. i'm really disturbed by the fact that, you know, when he called me, he should have said, magic, i'm sorry. >> right. i asked him specifically if he had apologized to you, and he said no. >> no. no, he didn't apologize at all. >> it seemed like a surprise to him that he would actually be expected to make an apology to you. >> well, he's the one who said, don't bring magic to my games. so, you know, he's the one who made these comments. so i was expecting at least an apology. and the american public wanted an apology. he finally did that. but this is -- it's sad. when i saw that interview, it's sad. it really is. i'm going to pray for this young man. i hope donald can see the mistake that he has made and also the people he has hurt along the way. and then what's really sad, you know, it's not about me. . this is about the woman you love outing you and taping you and putting your -- and putting your conversation out here for everybody to know. that wasn't me. i didn't do that. i don't know this young lady. this is between you two. but then we he wants to include me. and i'm not included in this situation. and then he wants to, you know, ask me what i've done, you know, in the minority community. that's well documented, what i've done. >> if you think about it the situation is now become even more bizarre because magic johnson is completely puzzled as to why he was ever relevant to donald sterling. trying to make sense of it. bring in malik rose, game analyst for comcast sportsnet philadelphia. and mr. sean gregory, senior writer for "time" magazine and time.com. what's your take away from this, sean? >> the barbara walters, you know, bequest -- >> also known as abc news. >> that was the most bizarre thing. magic said something interesting at the end when we talk about tend game of all this. it looks like donald sterling is going to get pushed out and he's going to get his money. and what does he do with that money? and, you know, anderson suggested, give it to a good cause. maybe he will do some good with that money. magic made the point, do we take that money? that gets to larger questions of the donald sterling were to set up a scholarship fund for minorities he said in his interview, i love to help minorities, do you take that money? and but if you don't take that money, are you denying opportunities, you know, to go to college? are we going to have a larger conversation about forgiveness at the end of all of this. >> and who should -- to get forgiveness though, malik, what's the first rule we teach our kids, to be forgiven you must say i'm sorry and you must mean it. how dit, how do you make sense of the fact that he calls magic and says i need you to come on tv with me and doesn't even apologize? how do you make sense of that? >> i don't know if you can make sense of that. i mean, if i was in pr and i had the school people on how to do an interview and how not to do an interview, these two interviews would be cued up 24 hours a day. i don't really understand -- this magic johnson interview actually made me have more questions as to, you know, why -- not even why but, you know, the lies that mr. sterling was saying as far as like magic called me. that was one thing i took away from the first donald sterling interview when he said magic called me and said don't do anything. i wanted to learn more about that. now to hear that mr. sterling was the one that initially called magic and asked him to go on the barbara walters abc special, it's like par for the course. >> i don't get what dsonald sterling's thing is with magic. he doesn't know the woman. he's not making a move on the clippers. he has no relationship with donald sterling. why -- what do you think is fueling sterling's paranoia about this guy? >> i think it's just, you know, he just can't stop himself. you know, like anderson wasn't taking him to magic johnson and then he just started going off on magic johnson. i think it's donald sterling, you know, maybe you can blame, you know, his age or dementia for just kind of having no filter and just going off. it's -- it's unexplanable. >> other than the obvious intrigue of scandal that drives interest, there are two big reason and seanous lined them about why you want to follow this story. what do you make of this, why he said why it's not tolerable and what it means going forward. miami dolphins safety talks about the michael sam kiss of his partner haend says it's horrible. what happens to him, what do we do when people do things we don't like. the second thing is see what the league does. malik, what do you think of the fact the owners met yesterday and adjourned quickly and said we'll meet again next week. why didn't they have the vote? >> i have no idea. there could be a litany of reasons why they didn't have the vote. >> give me two good ones. >> members didn't show up. maybe all the members didn't show up and they don't have a plan of action. i think the vote is what's probably going to be the easy pa part. he's going to be out. lack bash and people start to dig further, good reporters like yourself and anderson cooper are going to ask questions and dig into the the background of other owners. that's just a guess, not what could happen. but this is probably what they're thinking of. i think the decision is probably made, but after the decision, what's going to happen then. that's probably what the owners are starting to prepare for. >> i think there is somewhat of a process here. you have a hearing and there's some back and forth. i also wonder if the nba is trying to delay as much as possible to put some focus back on the basketball. the problem is we keep having interviews and donald sterling keeps saying things where we're having no focus on the basketball. >> process is off and protection. they want to make sure they cover all their bases, perhaps. that meeting next week is going to have a lot of attention no matter what goes on in the playoffs. much bigger than the game. it's good to have magic johnson his piece. he doesn't want to talk about this anymore, he shouldn't have to. but we will. malik rose, thank you. sean gregory, appreciate it. we hope you can watch "ac 360" tonight. yes, there is still more you're going to want to see. also coming up on "new day," a preview of what made sterling actually break down in tears. that will be interesting. kate? let's get over to don lemon now for today's big stories. >> good morning to you. good morning, everyone. developing this morning, more bled shed in eastern ukraine. ambush by pro-russian nrns killing six yooukian on thursday as they emerge as a players as a push for peace. germany's for written minister is in ukraine trying to kick start talks for moscow and kiev. he wants to decentralize the ukrainian government. a wildfire near san diego is almost under control after scorching 800 acres and threatens thousand of homes. it started tuesday morning and fanned by strong winds and low humidity in the area. parents had to pick up their children from three different elementary schools because of the fire threat. officials say those schools will be open this morning. a federal r federal judge struck down a voter approved ban on same-sex in idaho. the 2006 amendment defining marriage as between a man and woman violates a state's guarantee of equal protection. the decision will not take effect until friday morning giving a higher court time for a review. idaho's governor is vowing to appeal. this is happening in several states where they do it and it's struck down. >> equal protection is a very strong clause of the constitution. makes this somewhat of a simple legal question. >> right. coming up next on "new day," new fears at a dangerously fatal new virus is spreading inside the united states. a hospital worker may have contracted the virus in florida. what you need to know, ahead. did you hear this wild political claim ignited a fire storm of course. maybe that was its intention. we'll explain. karl rove claiming hillary clinton may have brain damage? some in his own party are now taking him on. the question is, is it all part of a dirty little plan. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. woman: this is not exactly what i expected. man: definitely more murdery than the reviews said. captain obvious: this is a creepy room. man: oh hey, captain obvious. captain obvious: you should have used hotels.com. their genuine guest reviews are written by guests who have genuinely stayed there. instead of people who lie on the internet. son: look, a finger. captain: that's unsettling. man: you think? captain: all the time. except when i sleep. which i would not do here. hotels.com would have mentioned the finger. mayo? corn dogs? you are so outta here! aah! 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[ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition. welcome back to "new day." this morning new fears, a mistee use and potentially deadly virus is spreading inside the united states for the first time. about 20 health care workers in orlando may have been exposed to mers, or middle east reps stospy syndrome. two workers are under going testing. the virus was first detected in saudi arabia and defense secretary chuck hagel arrived for meeting where thermal meters were used to try and detect the virus. a very real risk. we're joined by a clinical associate professor of emergency medicine and chief of depositionment at uvc hospital. doctor, thanks for joining us this morning. a lot of questions for many people wondering what they need to be aware of, but first, this news coming out this morning about defense secretary chuck hagel goes in to this meeting. they said they used thermal meters to try to look for high body temperature maybe to detect if the mers virus was present. have you heard of this being used before? is this something you can see being used in the united states? >> sure, we've heard use of this but the efficacy of it is questionable. the problem with mers virus is it's no different than any other flu virus where you develop low grade temperature to suddenly developing severe respiratory symptoms. you may be quarantining or thinking a lot of people have mers when they actually don't. considering that, when you do this in saudi arabia it makes sense because there's a higher potential or possibility of people having mers there. imp my ming something like that in the united states really doesn't make sense. >> knowing that the united states defense secretary is entering the meetings, clearly they'll do everything to make sure everyone is careful there. you talked about symptoms being similar to other flu viruses. what are the specific symptoms that are unique to mers? >> the unique part about mers is that it progresses rapidly and becomes lethal. but the symptoms otherwise are similar to the flu. fever, cough, shortness of breath. the unfortunate thing is for about 30% of the people who contract this they actually die from this. that's where the scary part of this virus comes? >> what is it -- is it because it progresses so quickly that t its more fatal than other virus snes what is it about mers that makes it more deadly than other virus snes. >> that's what has scientists excited about doing the research. most viruses the human body has been exposed to for thousands of years and understood how to defend itself. whenever a new virus pops up the medical community gets worried. why? we don't know how the human body will react. not just one human body but the global population. it's a lock and key phenomenon. if that certain key fits the human body's ability to unlock its potential for disaster, then we're in deep trouble. >> and this is spread through direct human contact. i heard maybe the one good thing about mers is it is more difficult to contract, it doesn't spread as easily as other viruses. describe this direct contact. what does that mean practically speak for folks at home? >> practically speaking, it smooens means someone really close and taking care of somebody who has contracted the illness which means body fluids, really cough is what we're talking about. respiratory stuff. somebody is coughing on you, you're getting it on your hands and then you're not washing your hands and you're getting it in your mouth, your eyes, and you're contracting the illness. people at high risk are people taking care of people who have mers, family member or health care workers. >> that's why the hospital workers are at such heightened risk and hops are now starting to pay special attention to this. doctor, great to see you. thanks so much for waking up early and coming in. appreciate it. gooded ed advice for everybody. coming up on "new day," it is on. karl rove suggesting hillary clinton may not be he think enough to be president. how would he know? now, if she runs, wing, wing, will it be a legit question or has the 2016 mud slinging already begun? you can answer that question easily. and "shark tank" star dallas mavs' owner mark cuban, remember, he was the owner of the nba franchise that said donald sterling should be able to keep the clippers. to keep the clippers. what does he think now? at any minute... ...you could be a victim of fraud. most people don't even know it. fraud could mean lower credit scores, higher mortgage rates... ...and not getting the home you really want. it's a problem waiting to happen. check your credit score, check your credit report, at experian.com. america's number one provider of online credit reports and scores. don't take chances. go to experian.com. 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[ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] she makes trains that are friends with trees. ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ welcome back to "new day." i'm don lemon. we're following breaking news. a mine disaster in western turkey where crews are desperately trying to find survivors. at least 205 people are dead. another 200 are believed to be trapped about two-thirds of a mile below ground. the shaft collapsing and burning after a transformer exploded in the mine. clean air is being pumped to parts of the mine where there is no fire. and we're going to go live to the scene at the top of the hour. nigerian officials have now positively identified 77 of the kidnapped schoolgirls seen in this video taken by the boko haram terror group but there are new questions about some of those girls and who they are and whether they were even part of the last month's abduction. meanwhile, u.s. spy planes have arrived in nigeria and already joined that search. terrifying scene in upstate new york. parents looking on as an inflatable bounce house with children inside swept off the ground. look at that. wind storm. two boys inside fell from the house from about 15 feet in the air. they suffered serious injuries and remain hospitalized. a 10-year-old girl also inside suffered minor injuries. some kids fell from week two floors up into the the air. unbelievable. >> i never heard this happens. kate was saying it happens all the time. >> i don't know if we say all the time but i think it's noteworthy when it happens even once, right? >> absolutely. >> but it has happened before. all right. so here's the question for you this morning. dirty pool, republican strategist karl rove suggest that more needs to be made of hillary clinton's 2012 concussion and subsequent hospital stay. here's what he said. 30 days in the hospital and when she reappears she's wearing glasses that are only for people who have traumatic brain injury? we need to know what's up with that. tuesday mr. rove backpedalling a little bit saying he never said she had brain damage but her health is still an issue if she runs for president. listen for yourself. >> my point was, is that hillary clinton wants to run for president, but she would not be human if this didn't enter in as a consideration. and my other point is, this will be an issue in the 2016 race and whether she likes it or not. >> whether he likes it or not or whether she likes it or not? clinton spokesman called the motives behind his comments, quote, flagrant and thinly veiled. here with us is former senior adviser to bill clinton and margaret hoover, cnn political commentator, republican consultant. margaret, you, full disclosure, you know mr. rove. you worked with him on 2004-2005 in the white house but we're not pinning this on you. >> pin it on me. >> i see it's like a football huddle. karl rove is drawing in the sand. i'm going to carry the the ball on this one. i'm going to take this shot and then you can jump in and say how can you say that karl, but then it's out there. oh, my god, that's exactly right. >> you're not going to say that. what are we here for? >> it's working. >> it's working. >> and we're done. thanks. >> karl rove bumped his head as well. you know. >> what do you think, margaret? >> first of all, clearly, that works. but let's also not forget that age is a very reasonable thing to mention about anyone's age. you have to be careful when it's a female president. >> this isn't about age. >> this is age and health, always has to be age. and -- and this has been raised for ronald reagan, bob dole, john mccain, dick cheney. it was so much of an issue for ronald reagan that he owned it at every campaign stop in new hampshire in his campaigning he made his 69th birthday celebration and by the end of the campaign he actually was seen as more vigorous than jimmy carter because he double downed and owned it. hillary could take a page from this an not let it hurt her and embrace it and kickback. >> do you think it's a good -- what do you think karl rove is doing? is he doing anything smart? >> look, i think you guys -- i think you guys nailed it. you put it out there. you let -- karl is crazy like a fox. >> he raised it with mccain, as well. >> crazy like a fox. >> there's a difference between -- richard, weigh in on this. reasonable basis to question the age, advanced age, health problems. you mentioned dick cheney with all due respect to him and future health. the guy had many heart attacks. >> hillary clinton is a relatively young woman in this day and age. 66 years old. >> 66 is the new 56. >> exactly. or the new 46. >> seriously, it is. >> it is. people are living longer. no one really -- no one really questions her stamina or her intellect. she's giving a speech today at the world bank. >> including lindsey graham. >> who else at this time is giving a speech today at the world bank on world monetary policy. nobody questions her ability and her intellect and her sharpness. but so now all of a sudden karl rove comes out with this big lie. it is like a big lie. it's the mccarthyism of the internet age where you can put anything out there, make a big lie, make it up about 30 days in the hospital, which is not true, make this thing about sunglasses. i never heard about sunglasses especially designed sunglasses for people with brain injuries. it was totally fabricated. then he pulse it back and we are having this whole segment on it. and margaret says, of course, age going to be a consideration is it's not so bad. she's a relatively young woman. no issues. >> if you're going to live in the free world age is a -- it's not just age. it's age, it's health, it's stamina. was reagan as robust and vigorous -- >> where is the line then? >> but ronald reagan was 80, hillary clinton is 66. >> almost the same age when he took office. 69. >> draw the line, if age at some point is a valid topic, if the health of a candidate is a valid topic, where is the line? >> the health and age of every candidate is always on the table and should be vigorously reviewed by the community. >> she's not a candidate yet. >> she's a candidate. she's a candidate. >> does it matter? does it matter that he's over weight? >> we're having this conversation so in a way we are legitimizing it. >> and guess what else we're doing? we're allowing karl rove to fund raise for his super pac because we're gore to bring more t a tension. >> not just for his super pac but do you think -- does this hurt hillary clinton at all? >> i think it will backfire. i think will it backfire. i think lit hurt republicans and shows how desperate republicans are that they have nothing going on, no candidate. front-runner christie is self destructing. they've t got to make up stuff. >> both jeb bush and paul ryan the other night and -- >> jeb bush -- >> both of them looked good. >> the problem is for you guys that jeb bush cannot run and be nominated by the republican party. >> i think he would be a good candidate. >> i think paul ryan's max from the bench press fell. >> it's amazing, seriously. >> republicans do need to be careful because when we have a woman front-runner on the other side we have to be careful because we make ourselves susceptible to double standards. >> if we're going to talk about her pantsuits i'm going to light something on fire. >> that's a potential land mine, mine field. >> we are setting ourselves up for another fabricated war on women. >> president obama will -- candidate obama then had a tough time talking about race. will it have the sort of same effect talking about women's issues? will she walk that tightrope? >> she's already done it. the attacks against her and the attacks against sarah palin, many of them were deeply sexist. whoever is running against her has got to be careful about it. >> be careful, we talked about this before on another topic, you have to be careful when she polls even better when she is seen as a victim of something. >> she's a victim right now, hoover. >> she's a victim right now. >> i think hillary clinton is very strong and doesn't need anybody's defense. very powerful. >> and lindsey graham says. >> now it's getting good. >> cable tv. >> watch out. >> too early to kneecap. >> keep it clean, guys. coming up next on "new day," one-on-one with christine romans, the "shark tank" star raised a lot of eyebrows when he suggested that donald sterling should be able to keep the l.a. clippers. and hollywood's bad boys back at it. alec baldwin arrested in new york. why? we'll tell you. justin bieber under investigation. for what? we'll tell you. we'll also tell you what's going to happen next in both cases. when sales rep steve hatfield books at laquinta.com, he gets a ready for you alert the second his room is ready. so he knows exactly when he can prep for his presentation. and when steve is perfectly prepped, ya know what he brings? 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my friend, it was a wild turn of event in the nba and does not involve the donald sterling scandal but it does involve his team. the ok city thunder beat the team. let's go to this morning's bleacher report. wow, wow. tell them what happened. >> that's all you can say is wow because what an ending to last night's game. crazy. clippers coach doc rivers said after the game his team was robbed. so here's the play that t got rivers so upset. thunder down two. reggie jackson loses the ball out of bounds sfp replay looks to show the ball goes off jackson but the refs give it back to the thunder. moments later, russell wesbrook, chris paul, three-point attempt. paul is shocked. wesbrook hits all three free throws. thunder steals the win. rivers is not happy. >> in my opinion, let's take away the replay system because that's our ball. we win the game. we got robbed because of that call. >> turning on bleacherreport.com, so tomorrow seed in the east. indiana pacers at home against the wizards with a chance to finish off the series, the polish hammer. i'm not sure if that is his nickname but he earned it last night. grabbed 16 rebounds. wizards with the blowout win, 102-79. more games tonight on tnt. the heat and spurs have a chance to close out their series. back to you guys. >> thank you so much. this morning an nba owner is speaking of sports and the nba, nba owner speaking out about the future of the clippers after donald sterling's outrageous comments made on cnn. mark cuban is the owner of the dallas mavericks and prominent businessman as well as investor on the television hit "shark tank." christine romans is joining us now and she's got the interview. >> he had previously said you have a right in this country to be a moron. should we be talking about taking a i way the property of someone because of their private conversations. i asked him about that. i said, look, you know, can you take someone's property because of what they say? he says, we are a franchise. and you have to play by the rules. he's changed his tune on this a little bit. listen. >> we're a franchise organization. right? so it's not -- it's not apples to apples in taking property. that's kind of what i've learned since my original comments, you know. it's like the someone who is a mcdonald's franchisee started talking about spitting in the french fries. >> you would lose your franchise. >> the mcdonald's analogy is pretty good. he's really concerned about privacy ands he's concerned that this is a private conversation originally that sparked -- nfrt, it's why he has a new app he's launching called cyber dust. everything is out there. there's really no sense of privacy at all. while he's concerned about privacy, he says, no, this is a franchise. nba is a franchise. >> he thinks donald sterling is a separate case than talking about private conversations should be kept private. he thinks that donald sterling should be out. where does he say the owners are in the process? >> he's not talking about the process. he is not talking about the process at all and very tight lipped on that. he wants to talk about pry vas i have and his app. i talked to him a lot about this situation and what's going to happen with the clipper next, what kind of ownership he thinks we could see here and what kind of money -- he said it could get well over a billion dollars. valued at $575 million by forbes. well over a billion dollars. the days of the trophy as set from a billionaire are over. these are consortiums with very well-backed investors and that the clippers sale is going to mark a new era in that. listen. >> acquiring a franchise has gone from, you know, kind of rich guys regardless of their demographic, or women, right, being able to write a check for a team to it being a consortium. >> a business deal. >> right. you have lots of stakeholders. that changes the tenor of the entire sport. >> and that will mark a big change, he says, this whole incident marking a big change in that. the trophy assets are over. he said he couldn't buy the dallas mavericks now. >> did he say in your interview he couldn't even buy some of the teams in the nfl and mlb teams? >> and mls. he said walking down the streets of new york and people are like, buy the mets, buy the mets. he doesn't want to own a baseball team but he couldn't anyway. it's a whole different ball game, literally now, than it used to be. >> good to hear his voice on this. thanks, christine. >> we got a lot coming this weekend about pry vaivacy on my show. >> more on mark cuban's interview with christine. head to cnnmoney.com. christine will have more on her show "your money" airing saturday 2:00 p.m. eastern. let's take a break here on "new day." when we come back, stars behaving badly. say it ain't so. of course it's so. justin beebe, alec baldwin, both in trouble with the law again and at least one of them isn't going quietly. look at this. incredible video. a man claiming to be god smashes a stolen landscaping truck into the lobby of a local tv station. we'll tell you what happened next. woman: this is not exactly what i expected. captain obvious: this is a creepy room. man: oh hey, captain obvious. captain obvious: you should have used hotels.com. their genuine guest reviews are written by guests who have genuinely stayed there. instead of people who lie on the internet. captain: here's a review, it's worse in person. he was a matted messiley in a small cage. ng day. so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com what is this place? where are we? this is where we bring together reliably fast internet and the best in entertainment. we call it the x1 entertainment operating system. it looks like the future! we must have encountered a temporal vortex. further analytics are necessary. beam us up. ♪ that's my phone. hey. [ female announcer ] the x1 entertainment operating system. only from xfinity. tv and internet together like never before. ♪ welcome back. more trouble for two big stars who are no strangers to controversy. one, justin bieber, accuse of attempted robbery in california after he allegedly tried to take a woman's cellphone. he says because he thought she was take pictures of him. and then, in new york city, alec baldwin ended up in in handcuffs, disorderly conduct. why? getting equipy with the cops who ticketed him for riding his bike the wrong way on fifth avenue. a major thorough fair. but are these fair accusations or is this about celebrity justice? let's bring in mel robbins, cnn commentator, legal analyst, and sony hostin, former federal prosecutor. let's begin with mr. bieber, shall we? sunny, you be the sword on this. i'll let mel be the shield. >> i usually am the sword, aren't i? i think the charmgs are appropriate. we live in a non-private world. now there's technology everywhere. he didn't have an expectation of privacy out in public. someone starts taking pictures of him you can't go and try to steal someone's phone. you can't do that. and that's what he did. it makes sense that he did it because he's been in so much trouble. he doesn't want anybody taking pictures of his alleged misties but you can't break the law in trying to shield herself. >> attempted robbery though, mel? >> absolutely ridiculous. >> robbery is a serious crime. usually involves violence. >> reaching into a purse does not -- they are just trying to rough the guy up because they're sick of him. >> i don't want somebody reaching into my purse. >> i'm sure you wouldn't. but somebody has got to do something though about the fact that people are making money off the backs of these celebrities by taking tons of photos of them all the time. >> this is just a fan. >> i got it. i got it. but this -- >> not paparazzi. >> hold up. this is fan who wanted to pick photos of justin bieber while he was getting trouble presumably not because they wanted them for their scrapbook but you know darn well there's a lot of money to be made when you catch somebody doing something wrong. >> mel robbins, reading a lot of facts into the sigsz. >> you asked me to be the shield, for crying out loud. i don't have much to work with here. >> you really don't. >> does the charge stick? >> absolutely. >> do you think he gets prosecutes? >> if i were the prosecutor, absolutely because, again, you have to -- i think these celebrities, while they're in the public eye, they seem to think that they are above justice. and that is not the case. the rules a fly apply to us all. prosecutors are in the business of making a point, make an example, showing the world what is and what is not appropriate. in this case you can't do this kind of thing. i will prosecute the case. absolutely. >> i think he should be deforred. if they can hold up -- >> deported? >> she went really far on that one. hold up lawson for admitting she's done in cocaine and not let her enter. why is bieber coming in and out of united states whenever he darn well pleases? i mean, to me, one of the things that i've beentalking about thi story is everybody is looking at the donald sterling story case and how did this happen and how did he get away with this behavior for so long? people didn't stick it to him every single time he did something small. prosecutors need to go hard against bieber because if he doesn't be held to the same standard as everybody else, if he doesn't be held accountable for the bad things he's going to continue to get worse. >> it's not the first time. we had the dui arrest. >> is taking a camera from a fan, let's even say an over zell rouse fan, i don't even know with f. that's true. but is that tantamount to attempted robbery which is usually stopping a mugging in the process. >> absolutely. that's what he did right there. >> the theft has to be something of no expectation of return. you know damn well you're going to give me those papers back. >> i love when he puts his legal hat on. >> are you overpunishing now? yes, they're undulged. he's a celebrity. what if he gives the camera back? >> i think perhaps that's different but if he takes the camera and then erases all the pictures, then no. i think it's the same thing. >> there are other charges that could bring because according to tmz and the statement that this woman gave, he was also intimidating them, he was also -- he said some things that make the 13-year-old start crying that was with her, the mother -- >> the very action of taking someone else's property by force is attempted robbery and it's really assaultive behavior. >> we say it all the time, bieber is a young man, emphasis on young. the real problem with him does seem to be a celebrity phenomenon of not the right support, not the right guidance as the money and fame eclipsing the maturity for these kids. let's switch to alex baldwin. going the wrong way on fifth avenue. this biking thing has gotten to be a big deal in new york city. they're making bike lanes, push back against the bike lanes but taken very seriously in traffic situations now because we have a lot of accidents. alec is going the wrong way. stopped by the cops. we don't know but we are told that he gets mouthy with him because he doesn't have id. >> no surprise? >> they wind up arresting him. unusual to be arrested for riding the wrong way on a bicycle. but what's the rule of when you mess with the cops? >> listen, i used to teach a street law class. i would say, one, you don't break the law, you don't break even ordinances but if you do and if you're in a situation with police, make your police interaction as short and as pleasant as possible. he broke rule number two. well, rule number one and two. you don't break the law by going the wrong way on fifth avenue. a very, very busy thorough fair. once they give to you and give you a summons you don't say take the summons and stick it up your butt. >> alec tweeted about it and he said this. i will read it if we have it. if not i'll make it up. new york city is a mismanaged carnival of stupidity that is desperate for revenue and anxious to criminalized behavior once thought benign. a lot of big words in, there mel, but do you think it applies? >> no. let's face it. he didn't get arrested for riding the bike the wrong way. extremely dangerous. fifth avenue. three lanes of driving. going the wrong way which creates a hugely dangerous situation for drivers and pedestrians and for his. he t got arrested because he was a jerk. he got arrested because he did what you should never do. in every single interaction in life you can either escalate the situation or you can de-escalate it. >> especially with police officers. they've got a tough, tough job. the last thing they need when enforcing ordinance or the law is to have somebody mouthing off. i will say this about all lech baldwin, i think he was right with the friend's ipad thing. just throwing it out there. i think he was right. >> segue. tell us what you're talking about. >> he was on the plane and he was playing words with friends on his ipad and the stewardes or flight attendants were taking it from him. we now all know that is safe and the pilots are using it -- >> at the time, it wasn't. this is another example of him not following the rules. >> my point is, he doesn't follow the rules, but in that respect he was challenging the rules, a rule he thought was inappropriate. >> time, place, and management wasn't the best. >> in this case maybe he doesn't think the ordinance is appropriate but i think he was wrong on this point because driving -- taking a bike the wrong way on 50th avenue is very dangerous as you mentioned. but it's his manner of, i think, trying to confront authority that he has a problem with. >> opposition defiance disorder, i'm going to diagnose him right there. >> i was dig noagnose with that the guy was a jerk who diagnosed it. listen, appreciate it. bieber's case much more serious than alec in this. open invitation, alec baldwin, to come on and explain himself. he has real issues that he feels he's being targeted. some of the big stories we're going to follow for you as you start your "new day." desperate rescues under way after a mine disaster in turkey. magic johnson fires back at donald sterling's bizarre accusations in a cnn exclusive. wait until you hear what sterling asked him to do after the initial tape came out. and an amazing discovery off the coast of haiti. listen to this. explorers think they have found the santa maria. yes. yes. let's get after all of it. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this could be turkey's worst ever mining disaster. pumping oxygen to keep these people alive. >> i made such a mistake. >> i thought that woman really cared for me. >> when he attacked me personally, i have to speak out about it. i'm going to always fight for myself and for my people. >> it was clear from the very beginning, we were dealing with emotionally disturbed subject. >> good morning. welcome back to "new day." it is wednesday, may 14th. 7:00 in the east. we begin with breaking news. the desperate search for survivors as a mine disaster unfolds in turkey. right now more than 200 people are believed to be trapped almost a mile under ground. there is word that as many as 200 have lost their lives. workers have been trying to make rescues throughout the night to get to them. we're 1/2ing some of them in action from overnight. now, the good news is there have been these homes of hope. this is a father kissing his son after he was rescued but there haven't been enough of those moments. enough for crowds to cheer about as crews are pulling another miner out of here live. these moments very few and far and between. senior international correspondent eivan has the latest from soma, turkey. ivan, what do we know now? >> chris, it's a race against time here. we're overlooking the mouth and the rescue operation of this griddy coal mine here in western turkey. the government authorities, they say that more than 90 people have been rescued since this electrical fire exploded at depths of perhaps a mile under ground. the death toll has also drinks sent dramatically to at least 205 miners killed as a result mostly of smoke inhalation at these depths where the fire has been raging. with heard as of this morning as well rescuing the rescue efforts. one of the problems, nobody knows exactly how many coal miners were under ground when the fire erupted in the first place. there was a shift change reportedly taking place. so that is complicating matters. the nearby town of soma looks like a town in crisis. hundreds of people lining the roads. more than 1,000 security officers and police who set up barriers, protecting the hospital there. and below us, there are planses waiting, waiting as people here in the hills around this griddy coal mine as they hope and pray for loved ones to emerge from what really has become a coffin for now hundreds of turkish coal miners. >> horrible metaphor but unfortunately too close to the truth to be ignored, ivan, because rehave to assume that this mine is a big employer. so many of the families in this small community, somehow related to what's going on in that mine right now. and we do know the big variable is if there's fire underground like this, it is taking away much needed oxygen and giving back smoke that can kill you very quickly. what do we understand from the authorities about where they are in controlling the fires? >> pumping air down into the mine shafts since tuesday night to this fire first erupted on tuesday. now, i talked to a turkish lawmaker who is here overseeing so of the rescue efforts. he says one of the problems is they haven't been able to communicate with the hundreds of miners who are still believed to be trapped down below. so that's a major, major problem. he also told me that the fires were still believed to be raging on wednesday morning and hampering the rescue efforts so that they actually had to let off some of the smoke it accumulated down there because the bad air down there would endanger the rescue efforts. and really what's saddest of all here is this isn't the first time the turkey has seen a mine dozens of coal miners died in at least two separate incidents in turkish coal mines in this country and, can you believe it, just 2 1/2 weeks ago a lawmaker whose electorate in this district submited a motion in parliament to investigate reports of safety hazards at this very mine in the turkish parliament. that motion was overturned by a majority of turkish parliament members, turkish lawmakers. that's going to be an issue for down the road. right now people are just hoping again and praying that they're loved ones -- again, we don't know how many men are trapped down there, will emerge safe and sound from this terrible catastrop catastrophe. >> thank you for the reporting this morning. let's turn now to magic johnson pulling no punches in his rebuttal to donald sterling's comments about him in a cnn exclusive. he called sterling delusional. he says he hasn't gotten an apologize and after sterling's accusations that johnson is a poor role model for the community johnson said he could not stay silent. >> he is a man who we would think would be educated and a man who would be smart enough to build this type of wealth and own a team to have an incredible platform to change the world. but he's doing it in a negative way. you know, first of all, 22 years ago i announced that i did have hiv. i came out like a man. you know? i told the world. >> because of the hiv virus i have attained, i will have to retire from the lakers today. >> i didn't blame nobody else. i understood what i did was wrong. okay? so i announced that to the world. and i hope that i was able to help people in doing that. i think i did. >> you helped countless numbers of people. >> yes, yes. and i've been to hospice, i've been to hospitals hugging people with hiv and aids, you know, before they were dying or people who had -- didn't know if they could live a long time. i hugged them. i counseled them. i talked to them. i talked to them about taking their meds and not -- making sure that they stay on their regiment, which is the key. i talked to a lot of young people who just got hiv and was thinking about, you know, committing suicide, you see? and i tried to talk them out of that. and then we have given away over $15 million, my foundation. magic johnson shouldn't have been included in your conversation because i had nothing to do with this. but because you put me in it again and then you try to disrespect me, the work that i've done in the minority community, that really makes me upset. and then my competitive spirit comes out because i've done all this great work, all the kids we've sent to college and i got 150 kids on scholarship right now. you know. i've continued to do good work in urban america and i will always do that. i'm devoted. my whole life is devoted to urban america. so i just -- wo wish he knew ths when he was talking. but he's a man who is upset and he's reaching, he's reaching. he's trying to find something he can grab on to to help him save his team. it's not going to happen. it's not going to happen. >> this idea that he has that african-americans somehow don't help other african-americans. >> it's disturbing, it's sad. he didn't do his homework. tyler perry called me right after the interview. he was so upset. spike lee called me. we help each other and what we try to do is band together to see how to better our community. we also give the information, because i'm successful, tyler is success phi successful, we educate others on how they can become successful. it's not just about giving them money, it's about giving them the tools so that they can be successful in the african-american community. but the problem is, he's living in the stone ages. he can't make those comments about african-americans and latinos. he just can't do it. >> spike lee last night was saying that he's messed with the wrong brother. >> well, you know anderson, i'm always going to fight for myself and my people. i will never change. so when he attacked me personally i have to speak out about it. >> good opportunity for magic johnson to speak to the ignorance of the statements that came out in donald sterling's interview. it is unfortunate he got hoisted to the middle and yet while it answers some questions it raises new ones because there's more in the interview you haven't heard yet with anderson cooper. what else did donald sterling say? well, at one point in the interview he becomes very emotional and we want to play that for you. he's talking about his behavior and manch and whose woman with conversation with sterling got him into this mess in the first place. watch this. >> yes. i think we'll divorce. i think she's already filed. i guess i was bad committing all of these terrible -- i don't even want to say it. but, you know, people say how do you commit adultery? you justify things. you say, well, every man in paris or france has a mistress. i mean, it may make you smile but when you're so hold you don't think it's wrong anymore if you have a little bit of fun. you don't have much time. if you have a little bit of fun you can't do what you did before and nobody expects -- but you want to be cared for. everybody wants to be cared for. i made such a mistake. i thought that woman really cared for me. >> so let's bring in charles from "new york times" and cnn commentator, host of the slate podcast the gist with mike peska. all right. let me put something out there for you. start with you, mike. this is an 81-year-old man. he has been given no excuse for his age, for his generational perspective and for whatever deteriorated state emotionally he may be in. do the tears evoke any sympathy in you for where he's coming from and making these mistakes? >> it made me think of the word pathetic. originally with the statements i was saying to myself and to people who asked, pathetic but it was more of a smearing i can't believe this guy, i can't believe this jerk. now i don't know if it's sympathy but there's a sadness to it all. i don't think any of it changes the underlying facts but this is one of those things where we have a huge blow-up, a huge let's all listen to a tape or let's all listen to a moment and there have been so many, biden uses the word clean or georged a len says macoco and we go crazy about it. now we're seeing this as a little more complicated. i don't know if it's changes the prescription from nba commissioner adam silver's perspective this guy still needs to lose his team, from all the players in the nba, same thing. i look at him and he maybe a malfactor, might be able to do evil in the world and his opinions might affect millions of people. but this is a pathetic, pathetic man. >> what do you think of magic johnson's response, he was dragged into this. he didn't ask to be part of this conversation. he felt like he needed to respond, especially after donald sterling said to anderson. >> i think it was right for him to respond. i think he was gracious in the way he responded. i think he is kind of a blueprint for how you can respond to people who are being racist and who attack you personally. i think magic -- it was a great thing that magic did and the way that he did it because he didn't have to be as gracious as he was in the way he treated sterling. and i think that even if you have this to sterling, even if you are inclined to forgive, which i think people make mistakes and they should be able to apologize for that and so you can decide to forgive or not, it doesn't erase the beliefs that he has. it doesn't alter the facts of the case. he said what he said and what he said was racist and that is the only way to describe it. we cannot play around with the definition of what he said. it does not alter it. >> what i had been saying is that usually racism is more subtle, quiet, and i would say lurking beneath the surface. in this case behind the door which is of his home. but you don't usually see it brought out like this. this holds up a mirror for people like donald sterling, people who are defending him. now you see once he actually steps in front of a microphone, what he said in front of the microphone is worse than what he said in private. >> worse in a way but it hints at a certain, i think you us idea the right word, subtlety and sophistication, which is that we sometimes want to believe that bias is joined together with malice. that the only way one can be racist is that you loath the person or the group to which you are being racist toward. that is not the way that it always works. sometimes people can be quite benevolent to the people who are less than them. in fact, in the interview with anderson he goes on about how he gives to my jorities. a lot of people do that. with within philanthropy there is still racism because people say these people are less than me and i give and it absolves me of my kind of beliefs. >> you have to figure out what the teachable moments are here now, right, there's a bar of relevance. going to keep talking about it there has to be intrigue. two levels. one you have what i would argue, matters more. what do we do with how we view this type of speech and how we put consequence on this type of speech. and then of course there's looking at the league and what are they going to do and this mixed signal yesterday of the owner's meeting but not voting and and journing. >> well, you've said all along it should be a teachable moment and it should be. you do wonder if the people who need to learn the lesson are listening. >> no, no. because -- >> it will change another donald sterling. >> before you guys -- because no one wants to be called a racist. i have never met anyone -- >> donald sterling does not believe he's racist. >> he doesn't believe he's raci racist. have you ever met anyone who says, oh, i'm a reyes iacist? >> yes. sometimes they're proud of it. >> what is racism? what is, you know, what is this desk and you, go well, you know, it's plexiglas, it's whatever. but what is racism? >> your acceptance of the title doesn't change the definition of the title. >> great point. >> i don't need you to acknowledge the fact that you're a racist. >> what do you do once it's out there? >> you said what he said in this interview is worse than on the tapes. we're talking about the thanks that he did. what about the things that he did? what about the things that he did when he was trying to build housing and exclude black people and hispanic people and families from the housing? and the nba was pretty much blind to it and they didn't take it on until they had this opportunity to, you know, lower the broom on him because of these tapes. this flash point of the tape. it's all a teachable moment. what magic johnson said was great. no one is going back and talking about, what about the fact that we have systematically this guy in our midst and we did nothing about it until the flash point. >> what do you do? >> it's easy to attack one person who is so blatant. >> i think you take the to tallity of what donald sterling has said in the interviews that he's given. not only has he said racist things, he has said sexist things, horribly sexist things. >> hiv/aids. >> shaming with horrendous in this. i don't know what magic johnson's legacy will be when he dies. he was a fantastic baseball player, fantastic businessman. but what he has done on lifting the profile and alleviating stigma around hiv and aids and what you can do post-diagnosis, you can have a family and have a career, it does not have to define you. if you take your meds, you can live a happy and healthy life. people need to hear that because a lot of people don't get tested because they are afraid of the stigma and if you have someone like sterling who is, himself, saying that he has done things outside v of his marriage kind of chastising magic johnson for doing whatever he did that might have led to hiv and aids and acting as if that becomes a character disease rather than a regular disease like any other disease in america. >> sanitizing you put on it. allow it to be out there. say what he said. correct the false assumptions and hope it makes people better going forward. >> i felt bad that magic johnson felt the need to come out. >> he did good by doing that. >> he did it the right way. >> he did good for america by doing that. >> remaining question becomes, what will the league do and when? they met yesterday, the owners. they did not have a vote. could be good reasons for that. >> donald sterling still thinks he can wait out the storm. >> it has happened before. >> let the season, let the playoffs and then they will attack that problem. >> as long as they keep their urgency because they're going to be very measured by what they do. i'm not saying what they should do. charles, mike, thank you very much. appreciate the talk this morning. we, of course, will have more of what magic johnson has to say throughout the morning. you can also hear more from mr. donald sterling in his exclusive interview with anderson cooper. you have to watch that on "ac 360" tonight at 8:00 right here on cnn. i want to tell you about other news. a bizarre scene in baltimore when a man claiming to be god smashed a stolen landscaping truck into the lobby of a local tv station. the incident had reporters at the station scrambling to cover their own story. >> a frightening scene. this stolen landscaping truck smashing through the lobby of a tv station in baltimore, ramming the building over and over before crashing through. all of a sudden, glass is breaking. and there's a truck coming in through the front lobby. >> reporter: minutes before the crash the unidentified man is seen on surveillance video trying to enter the station. >> he then heard a person screaming, let me in, let me in. the person then began to scream, let me in, i'm god, i'm f'ing god. >> reporter: this oklahoma video showing moments that forced the lock down and whack investigation evacuation and nearby school. in an edit room he was found watching his own story on tv. >> it was clear t from the very beginning we were dealing with an emotionally disturbed suspect. >> reporter: the suspect's family immigrated from haiti. his mother says after high school he started using drugs and hanging out with the wrong crowd. >> i don't know. i don't grow up like that. i have three kids. i work so hard to get him here. >> reporter: the suspect was arrested without incident some five hours after crashing into the building. a terrifying scene the station's workers won't soon forget. >> the man was taken in for psychic evaluation before he was -- faces those criminal charges. again, he went to the wrong station. they didn't have a noon broadcast. >> they were going to when they found that he was watching the broadcasting itself. >> yeah. >> thanks, don. >> unchecked mental illness on display. >> yeah. huge problem. >> sad. let's turn to meteorologist indra petersons keeping track of the forecast. indra, still watching the storm. >> still watching it making its aacross the country. this is the same system that brought heavy snow to colorado and intersecting with that warm moist air in the gulf. look at all the activity spreading farther to the east. this is how we look at it in the meteorologist world. light shape of a "u." now it's shifting, coming to a negatively tilted trough. cold air is above warm air. it wants to flip badly. we have the threat for more severe weather with the system. anywhere from cleveland to pittsburgh stretching out of the way back down through jackson, mississippi. the threat for more severe weather today. even going into the night hours overnight tonight. that's when you want to be careful. here's the other side of this. dry in the west and moist in the east. it's moving more to more and more moist air. we're going to talk about all that moisture fueling into an area of severe weather. heavy thunderstorms are expected and heavy ams of flooding. two to three inches around the gulf. three to five inches into the atlantic and up towards new york and the northeast. we're going to talk about heavy rain over the next several days. other side of it may have noticed in the mid wall street that huge temperature drop the last several days. 20 to 30 degrees cooler yesterday. that cold air is spilling farther into the east as the cold front makes its way farther to the east. not too bad in new york city. 71 in d.c. 75 today. temperatures will drop once the cold front makes its way in. it's not only going to be cooler, it's going to be kind of rainy. when i say kind of rainy, rainy a lot. a lot. >> a lot. >> thanks, indra. >> that's the chris not happy. coming up on "new day," rescue and recovery under way after a fire in a turkish mine leaves workers trapped. hundreds trapped. is there hope for their survival? what are the variables? we're going to talk to the man who helped rescue the chilean miners in 2010. a similar situation in terms of the challenges. and also ahead, is karl rove waging a smear campaign against hillary clinton? new attacks against the potential 2016 candidate. but is all fair in political warfare? we'll discuss as we take you inside politics. scott: okay, neighbors, here's the top-drawer skinny. scotts wraps each seed in a brilliant water smart plus coating, that feeds, protects, and holds in moisture to make growing thicker, healthier grass easier. now let's spread your newfound knowledge! seed your lawn. seed it! when folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. this is a head-to-head challenge. we wanna find out which vehicle you prefer. floor it! this is awesome! woooo (laughter)! wow, a lot more pickup than the honda. the fusion does not feel like a 4-cylinder. is that because of the ecoboost? so with the fusion... it just has a younger vibe to me. the winner is ford fusion... hands down. come see for yourself during the ecoboost challenge and get a ford fusion with zero percent financing for sixty months plus one thousand challenge cash. visit your ford dealer. out of turkey this morning, rescue crews desperately trying to reach 200 coal miners trapped under ground after explosion and fire there. joining us is someone who knows a lot about mine rescues. james helped drill the escape shaft in the rescue effort of the chile an mian miners in 201. i want to lean on your expertise here from your experience with the chilean mine disaster. when you understand the little we're getting out of turkey so far, what is the first thing that they need to focus on in their rescue efforts? >> well, definitely i'm sure they have a good emergency plan for this kind of situation as most mines should have one. there's usually an emergency response team that comes into play. and i'm pretty sure from what i hear this is a pretty good size mine. so i would think they have a lot of safety equipment under ground that can maybe, you know, hopefully always have to hope for the best and hope that there's still a lot of people there. one of the things you don't want to give up, you don't want to give up. we never gave up on our side. you know, we didn't know what was going on down there at about 2,000 feet below ground. i think what really helped is we had a lot of hopes to even if we could find one person alive, it was worth the effort. >> i think that -- >> in chile the miners survived 69 days under ground, you remember very well, better than anybody. in chile they're also dealing with a cave-in. in turkey they're dealing with an explosion and electrical fire of some kind. how does that change the dyna c dynamic? >> that definitely changes things. when you have a cave-in you hope that miners were not exactly where the cave actually occurred, which was a case here in chile. they were likely able to get into a place where they were safe. it was just a matter of hanging in there until we could get down there and drill and find them. in this case here where you have fire involved it makes things a lot tougher. create a lot of carbon monoxide and that can have an affect on people down there. i think here time is more of a pressure problem than it was in our case, for sure. time is definitely a factor here. they were trying to eject a layer in there which is good. if you have fire, oxygen helps the people but it can also cause the fire to ignite even more. so you've got to be real careful with that, too. >> how do you take that into account then? we hear from the rescue efforts on the ground that they are trying to pump air into the mine shaft to try to help anyone who is down there. there is still some 200 believed to be missing. you say that can also carry risks. how do you balance that? what do you you do? >> well, i'm sure they got hopefully enough information to realize what areas they can inspect air in to. if there's no fire in a certain area you kcan inject air in there. that will definitely help. as time goes by, the air is what really gets to be a problem down there when you're trapped and getting fresh air in there can definitely help the people out to where they can survive a lot longer. so air is definitely a good option but you just got to be careful not injecting air where there's still a fire. >> the chilean miners, if i remember correctly, they were down a little also than half a mile. the miners in this case, they believe could be about two-thirds of a mile or up to a mile below the surface. that seems to obviously pose much more additional challenges. how do you take that into account if you're trying to get down there? >> well, it's a different situation in our case it was a collapse and we just couldn't get anywhere close. we have to drill a hole from the surface. i'm not sure what all the details are in this mine here. but you know, if you can -- this is a pretty good size mine from what i can understand. if you can get close to where the fire is, you don't have to drill a hole from surface. you might be able to reach the miners through the inside which can sometimes make it a little better but you've got to be real careful if you don't, you know, that you don't send people in there and then have your rescue people get trapped in there. so a lot of planning, a lot of -- you need a lot of information so you can make the right call. the more information you have, the better options of making the right decisions and hopefully getting them out in time to try to get some people out alive. and that's, you know, that's the name of the game. we never gave up. and after 69 days, like you say, we were able to get all 33 of them out alive. >> no one will ever forget that moment when that first miner and last miner all made it out of that chilean mine alive, due in large part to your ability to drill that hole. james stephanic, thank you very much. they can only hope to have similar outcome in this case. time is working very much against them in this case. james, thank you very much for your time. chris? >> happening right now, and we will go there throughout the morning and let you know what's happening. right now we take a break though on "new day." when we come back, karl rove suggests hillary clinton may have brain damage. some in his own party are telling him to stand down, but it is now being discussed by me right now and others, so is it dirty pool well played or legitimate question? smart talk ahead on "inside politics." and it's been missing for more than half a millennium. did a team really find the boat christopher columbus sailed to the new world? you're going to hear from the man who says he found it. really... so our business can be on at&t's network for $175 dollars a month? yup. all five of you for $175. our clients need a lot of attention. there's unlimited talk and text. we're working deals all day. you get 10 gigabytes of data to share. what about expansion potential? add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. low dues... great terms... let's close. new at&t mobile share value plans. our best value plans ever for business. this is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. during the day, we generate as much electricity as we can using solar. at night and when it's cloudy, we use more natural gas. this ensures we can produce clean electricity whenever our customers need it. ♪ when la quinta.com sends sales rep steve hatfield the ready for you alert, the second his room is ready. you know what he brings? 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(gnome) go and smell the roses. welcome back to "new day." hope you're morning is going well. let's get us get inside politics on "new day" with mr. john king. here john. >> chris, good morning to you. happy wednesday. let's go "inside politics." day two of karl rove raising hillary clinton's health issues. here to join me the guiliana and peter hamby. karl rove was at a conference in california. the new york post had a headline suggesting he raises the question of whether hillary clinton has brain damage. let's watch yesterday where karl rove said he didn't go that far. >> reporting though in the post he sands that he did say she was wearing glasses after a hospitalization a couple years ago that people with traumatic brain injuries or, so he apparently raised traumatic brain injury. didn't use the specific term brain damage. you cover the white house every day. let's listen to jay carney who went back to election night 2012 suggesting if anyone was having memory issues or brain issues maybe it was karl. >> dr. rove might have been the last person in america on election night to recognize and acknowledge that the president had won the re-election, including the state of ohio. we'll leave it at that. >> i remember that night very well. karl was a little behind the curve on the math in ohio there. there are a lot of democrats grumbling that karl rove did exactly what he wanted to do here. that let's say -- let's take him at his word. he didn't dwrusz brain damage but he did say traumatic brain injury so everyone is talking about this. hillary clinton was going to be asked anyway. anybody's health when you run for president, whether you're 36 or 66 is fair game. this little planting a little dirty seed? >> a little sarcasm from the podium yesterday. but what with i thought was interesting was how jay carney used the dr. rove line hours after you heard that same line from the clinton camp. so again, it shows one of the reasons why the clinton camp jumped on this and felt that they needed to respond to this so quickly, because they know that her health issues, that this particular episode is something that's going to come back that she's going to have to answer to. >> i'm sure the clintons are angry about this but if i'm a republican i'm thinking about running against her, i'm also probably angry about this because it takes, again, what is a legitimate issue. it's not ageist or sexist to talk about a candidate's health if they're run for president of the united states. but it pushes it into con sp conspiratorial territory and hillary has always gone up in the polls and been successful when she's perceived as being under attack. >> she's in d.c. for an event today, two events today. bill clinton is in d.c. for a fund-raiser in the maryland governor's raise. do the clintons fire back? do they take an opportunity here? >> i best for them to let this go and let other people from the white house podium deal with this because what they're doing now is turning this into a story about karl rove and undermining his credibility and ability to make this argument. >> this terms of the day-to-day news cycles i think you're going see bill clinton and hillary clinton stay above the fray as much as -- as long as they can until she actually has to engage when she gets close to campaigning or jumping? >> she has that dry midwestern sense of humor. watch her today as she finds some underhanded way to sneak it in because she wants to. the question is whether she thinks it's the best thing to do. we talked a lot this year about the tea party losing. the tea party was celebrating overnight because of an nebraska senate race, ben sass. he was running against candidates favored by the republican establishment. he won pretty convincingly. some people are saying, wait a minute, this guy went to harvard, went to yale, studied at oxford. how can he be a pitchfork tea party guy. every group affiliate with the tea party was having an tarzan moment. we finally won, we won. we ted cruz said this is a victory. byron york of the "washington examiner" calls mitch mcconnell, the guy ted cruz hates. the establishment, and says, i'm with you. i'll support you. did the tea party win and then immediately lose? >> look, i think you say this is a win for the tea party. they are going to get a very intelligent capable, conservative in the u.s. senate. but, you're right. he has made a mends with mitch mcconnell. they had a little bit of a flame war a few months ago. look, his campaign put out a statement after his advisers put out a statement after the primary results last night saying this guy is not going to be a reflexive no vote in the senate. i think what you're seeing here is just a little bit of conservatconserv conservatives realize that they have co-oped a little bit of the establishment and not vice versa and they will enact whatever legislation they want. >> i just had a sense the establishment won by losing lastst last night in the sense that ben sasse calls mitch mcconnell. mcconnell's primary is next week in kentucky. some talk that maybe eric continuer in virginia has a tea party challenge. the tea party is wing by losing in a sense you don't see republicans saying let's pass immigration reform. almost all republicans have tacked right. >> one thing the democrats are looking at as you head into the general elections is whether or not you have the antagonism and anxieties that created the tea party movement within the republican party and whether or not the ted cruz, the lee supporters of the tea party anti-establishment republicans are going to rally around these establishment candidates and whether or not there's going to be the field organization to get them out as well. >> mitch mcconnell wants 51 votes. that's what he wants most of all so he's the majority leader. one of president obama's nominees for judicial was on capitol hill today. you tell me, do you want to go inside politics? what's wrong with this picture? >> for my vote, i have to have certainty and i don't know quite how to get it in view of this record. >> i felt that -- that you gave me -- that you gave me a little slightly misrepresentation of your record on this. >> i'm sure our morning inside politics viewers get this. those were democrats. those were not republicans grilling a president -- the democratic president's nominee. michael boggs is his name. democrats have concerns about his views on abortion, views on gray gaye rights, twice voted to keep the confederate flag on the state legislature. did the white house not do this? did they not do enough work with the white house to get the support? >> i heard from two this morning that said that he has bipartisan support. they indicated that ultimately he is going to get through but he's going to need all the republicans and two democrats on the judiciary committee. look, this is emblematic of the larger problem the president has had with progressives in the judicial nominees. they think he has been too willing to compromise. you would think he could get thoou through the progressive judges but still he's nominating conservative judges. it shows they haven't mastered the nomination process here. >> in the state of georgia in particular where they think they can pick up a senate seat, might be competitive in the judges race. this timing is bizarre. >> georgia is a tough state when you're a democrat. you cannot alienate that african-american base, especially around atlanta. at the same time, you do have to pick up votes in the rural parts of the state. this is a real balancing act. and you risk inflaming one side or the other with this for sure. >> thanks so much. as we get back to you guys in new york we started with karl rove. you knew this was make the late night funny. this morning, david letterman. >> i tell you something. that karl rove better be careful of what he's talking about because karl rove saying somebody else has brain damage, yeah, take a look at this and then we'll talk about it. ♪ >> you know, with every little piece of tape that's there, so, you know, you don't have to say anything about that. >> no, you don't. i think we should comment on ken strickland, one of our good frentsds, he was in the background. he has way better moves than that. he was not offering up some good moves right behind karl rove there. david gregory, good moves as well. >> that was a spasm that was going on. >> 4-year-old nephew, the way he dances, jumping up and down. >> it's always best advice, i believe. if you're a politician, avoid -- karl rove or a strategist, avoid the dancing in public. it just always comes back to bite you. >> yeah. and especially now, you know, that was recorded with a big camera. now we have the fun little things, too. no. not doing that. >> one of the few things that can make karl rove sympathetic is that dancing. >> i have john king dancing. >> john king has good dance moveses. >> who is john king? >> john king has no dance moves. coming up on "new day," it has been under water for more than five centuries. has the boat christopher columbus himself sailed to the new world finally been found? the "santa maria." we have the investigators who think they found it. that's next. ions come over to mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. ♪ (woman) this place has got really good chocolate shakes. 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(announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. disturbing the pantry. ortho crime files. a house, under siege. say helto home defense max. kills bugs inside and prevents new ones for up to a year. ortho home defense max. get order. get ortho®. welcome back. for all the stories about what we can't find here's a story about what they may have actually found. could be a huge historical discovery. after some 500 years, the "santa mar maria" the boat christopher columbus took to the new world may finally have been found. where? off the coast of haiti. barry clifford joins us now, marine archaeologist. he's an investigator. and he led the team that claims to have found it. i'm going have to check you, barry. no, it's great to have you here. you got a book. we've got a diagram. let's take a look. so, take me through. this is where and why, take me through all of it. >> the key to the riddle is the distance that columbus described in his diario, which was transcribed on where he built his fort. he said the day after he wrecked his ship that they fit a fort on land. and he said that that was a league and a half, which is 4.7 miles from navidad, the fort. someone is telling me exactly where to look except the fort that previous historians and explore weers -- >> how did they know it in haiti? >> because it's in columbus' dario. >> this is really the only thing that's existed in the dario. the riddle of the dario is solving the dario, solving columbus' words because he was writing this knowing that the queen and the king would be dissecting every word when he came back. and if he made a mistake he had to cover himself in the dario. there's a lot of confusion. >> i get the whole da vinci code thing. it's exciting. why did he think he was here and he was here. >> because he drew a map. it's the only thing that exists today, is the map that columbus drew. and he says, navidad on that map. but that's, you know, a rough drawing. >> what do you think? we've got the red zone. that's the search area. based on what he said? >> no. navidad, according to previous explorers, includinged win link and samuel elliott morrison, the great historian from harvard, thought it was here. so they extrapolated a distance of a league and a half, which is 4.7 miles. an arc. and everywhere from approximately list distance, let's say they search fred here to here. that's where they felt the ship was. except, except that's not where navidad is. dr. kathy deegan from the university of florida expedition with us in 2003 discovered are where navidad is. two miles further to the west. so when you extrapolate a league and a half out into the bay of cap-haitien, exactly a league and a half from navidad, and well beyond anything else, we found a pile of stones. what you're looking for -- this is not nuclear physics. we look all over the world under deep -- >> can i go? >> yeah. >> you're under water. searching around. what do you see? >> ear lookiwe're looking for a of stones that like fell out of the dump truck. stones from the iberian peninsula do not belong on top of a coral reef. something about the size of two football fields. take yankee stadium, dump a big giant pile of stones in the middle of it, it's not comp my t indicated. it's not buried in sand. it's just understanding what columbus said. >> why were the iberian stones on the "santa maria"? >> because the ship was built in spain. >> there were stones used to build ships? >> no, the stones were put in the bottom of the ship. several tons of stones were put in the bottom of the ship for balance. >> so you get down there. do you find the stone snsz what do you think you found that makes you found it? >> this object parallel to the stones looks like a tube. it's open at both ends. >> shazam! >> what do you think it is? >> i know what it is. >> what is it? >> well, originally it was misdiagnosed by our archaeological team and it looked like a tube. my son brandon, the first one to dive on the wreck in 20003 said, dad, there's a really old looking cannon. >> cannon. >> and then it was mist misdiagnosed as a tube. make a long story short, the site was aboandoned. we went to another location. went several weeks working on it. it turned out wrong. in 2012 i woke up in the middle of the night after studying 15th century armory and went, oh, my god. long bars are open at both ends. >> what's that? >> a cannon. and the smaller end here which is where the cannonball exits from. this end is where the cannonball and gunpowder is loaded. behind that is what you call a breach pin. you put the cannonba nanonball gunpowder into the longbard. you put a brace behind this. this is on top of a gun carriage and the gun carriage has a wheel. okay? this is -- i think there's been less than a dozen of these lombards found in the western hemisphere. what are this chances the it's going to be exactly the distance that columbus described from -- in his dario. he also said that there were huge sets ofdescribed. he write -- they were only there seven days. they would have written, because they would have been smashed. but there is a little sandy spot between the breakers and columbus also described that the ship went aground so quietly in the middle of the night. >> sandy bottom. right? >> you're hired. >> i feel good about it. strong. >> that's exactly -- i'm sure -- i know you're -- i know you're buddies too. so they have -- so he comes aground. and at 11:00 at night, they all go to bed, because they felt confident they had been up for a couple days before, partying. columbus said the water was calm, water in a bowl. everybody went to bed. something columbus never did. they turned the ship over to the ship's buoy. and one hour later at exactly midnight on christmas eve, the traditional moment of the christian savior's birth, a ship named for the mother of christ, captained by a man's name who means cross bearer or christ bearer, wrecks in the new world. so quietly, it didn't wake anybody up. sand. that's exactly where we found these 15th century artifacts. again, if this is the math on this is overwhelming. what's the chance of finding a lombard? >> small. >> a wheel -- actually, another wheel and then a very large wheel that was used to transport cannon's on land. >> this is fascinating. i had to hear the story, amazing. and i want you to come back when we get the next chapter of what you're able to bring up and verify. this is so cool. great to see history being made and have man with us here. >> thank you so much. >> pleasure is ours. >> riddle of the dario. >> i know, right? the riddle of the dario, kate. >> it remains a riddle. next on "new day," what donald sterling asked magic johnson to do after sterling's racist rant hit the public. exclusive interview, ahead. predibut, manufacturings a prettin the united states do. means advanced technology. we learned that technology allows us to be craft oriented. no one's losing their job. there's no beer robot that has suddenly chased them out. the technology is actually creating new jobs. siemens designed and built the right tools and resources to get the job done. honestly, the off-season isn't i've got a lot to do. that's why i got my surface. it's great for watching game film and drawing up plays. it's got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it's just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with. alright, russell you are good to go! alright, fellas. alright, russ. back to work! without standard leather. you are feeling exhilarated with front-wheel drive. you are feeling powerful with a 4-cylinder engine. 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>> just about all the families there, and somehow connected to what's going on deep underground. we understand that they're shooting oxygen down there, air down there, but they don't really know where the fire is, so they don't know whether they're feeding the fire or feeding the trapped survivors. what are they telling you about the level of optimism? >> reporter: one lawmaker, i said, he really fears this death toll will continue to grow. and, of course, the people who have gathered on the hills around here in these woods, it's dusty, it's dirty here. the size of this operation is massive. entire tops of mountains have been removed by what has clearly been an operation going on for years, if not decades here. you can just see the anxiety on people's faces. they're pratt to find out their loved ones will emerge from this. and here is the really sad thing here, just about two-and-a-half weeks ago, chris, a lawmaker from this region had fired a motion in parliament to investigate reports of safety hazards at this very mine and that motion was overturned by a majority of lawmakers in the turkish parliament. who knows, maybe things could have been different if it had been approved. chris. >> if people don't make it out of that mine, as that starts to spread and anger starts to grow, they're going to be dealing with a different kind of explosion there, especially specifically those lawmakers. ivan, thank you. we'll check back in with you. kate? >> thanks, chris. also this morning, new fears. a mysterious and potentially deadly virus is spreading notice the united states. about 20 health care workers in orlando may have been exposed to mers, short for middle east respiratory syndrome. the concern there comes after health care workers treated a patient with the virus. two of the workers are undergoing further testing right now after showing symptoms. the virus was first detected in saudi arabia, and defense secretary you see there, chuck hagel, he arrived this morning for a meeting where thermal meters were used to try and detect the virus. clearly, they're taking this very seriously. we're joined now by dr. william shatner, dr. at vanderbilt medical center, focusing on preventative medicine. thank you for taking the time this morning. we know that the world health organization is on alert, taking this seriously. we know -- just talked about those 20 health care workers who may have been exposed. how concerned should people be, especially if they're heading to the hospital? >> well, actually, fortunately, this is not a virus that is spread readily in the community. it is spread in the context of providing health care. that's very important. and it has occasionally spread in saudi arabia from one family member to another. it requires close, constant, over time exposure. so the average person in the community need not be exposed. but it's important to use good infection control precautions when caring for such patients. >> let's talk about what that means for the hospital and then let's talk about what that means for the individual. you say it takes close person-to-person contact. the concern is that if this is brought over from overseas, that we could be seeing really the first transfer within the united states, because of person-to-person contact. how do hospitals, especially emergency rooms, that really are the first line of defense, how do they need to be operating differently? what do they need to do with this information? >> well, for the last two years, since we've had mers in the middle east, emergency room personnel, infectious disease doctors such as myself and others, have been alert. anyone who comes in with respiratory symptoms is asked right away, have you traveled or have you had contact with someone who has traveled to the middle east. if the answer is yes, you put that person in isolation, get specimens, send those to the cdc for further testing. that system is working. these two patients that had come to the united states from saudi arabia and became ill were detected really quite quickly. and were put in isolation. now we do have some exposed patients, health care workers, that is, in orlando. and they're now being watched very carefully. >> and doctor, the thing that is so scary about this, while it does require close contact in order to contract the virus, it also, we know that it's -- in 30% of the cases when you're infected, that can be fatal. that's what is scary about this for everyone watching at home. what do folks need to know? how can they be careful. how can they protect themselves from this? >> well, let's just emphasize. this is not a virus that spreads readily in the community. we had the importation in indiana. there is no spread there. so far, we're monitoring people in orlando. people around the country who work in emergency rooms are alert to this. that's what people ought to know. the system is working. public health was immediately notified. there's good collaboration to monitor those folks in orlando. the system is working very well at the present time. >> and in order to just in general, what should folks know? since it is in the family of the sars virus, something kind of related to the cold, is it this -- unfortunately, there is no silver bullet in how to protect yourself 100% of the time for any of this stuff. does it get back to simply being diligent about washing your hands? >> oh, washing your hands is always very good. avoiding people who are coughing and sneezing. and, of course, if you've traveled to an area of the world where mers is active and you become sick, immediately let your doctor know about that. >> absolutely right. that's always the scary thing is that the symptoms start off as something similar that we always are used to, and it's where you've been is when you need to be concerned of what could happen next. dr. william shatner, thank you very much for your help in understanding what to do and what to watch out for. appreciate it. let's get over to don lemon now in for michaela. >> thank you very much. we want to tell you about a frightening scene for some parents in upstate new york. and it all happened in their own backyard. three children in an inflatable bounce house were swept away by a wind storm while playing inside. look at this. look at this terrifying photo. that blue dot soaring high is an inflatable balloon house. neighbors say a gust of wind blew the bouncy castle in upstate new york right off the front yard. three children playing inside were sent flying two stories into the sky. soaring over a stretch of trees and this apartment complex. >> the first little boy came out, landed in the middle of the road right there. and then the other little boy came down, hit his head off the back of my car right there, and then he landed on the ground. >> a 10-year-old girl escaping with only scrapes. the two boys still hospitalized. one reportedly suffering two broken arms, and the other a serious head injury. >> his face and whole front of his body was covered in blood. >>. >> this isn't the first time the birthday party favorites have been sent airborne. back in 2011, a heavy gust of wind blew this inflatable slide like a tumble weed, flying across a long island soccer field and landing on a crowd below, injuring 13. that same year in tucson, arizona, wind whipped this bouncy castle up in the air at a fifth grade graduation party, wrapping it around a light pole. horrified neighbors of this accident say the castle was assembled correctly and staked into the ground. chkt the parents were out there too. and anything that could have been done wrong wasn't. everything was done properly. >> so the company is called little times, maker of the bounce house and issued a statement providing safe and wholesome play experiences is of utmost importance to little times. we are looking into what happened, and our thoughts and prayers are with the children and their families. and as kate was saying, this does happen. >> scary. >> it is. and it's just air and plastic. when the wind gets it -- >> it's a big balloon. >> it's a big balloon. >> exactly right. and they're very popular. i had them as a kid. >> i remember we had them at our house as a kid, too. >> almost every other weekend during birthday season. kids love them. >> careful. >> i love them. >> ooh. chris in one of those things, now, that's a hazard. >> keep it down, that's for sure. ballast. >> that's what i was going to say. coming up next on "new day," magic johnson the target of donald sterling's racist rants and then another attack right on cnn. what does he have to say to the clippers' owner? we'll show you in that exclusive interview with anderson cooper. and is hillary clinton hiding something about her health? or does karl rove just want you to think that? we're going to tell what you he said and what it could mean in 2016 or what it would mean about how we clean up politics today. we asked people a question, how much money do you think you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. 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[ male announcer ] in a clinical study, over 80% of treated men had their t levels restored to normal. talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. man: we know when parents and teachers work together... woman: our schools get stronger. man: as superintendent of public education, that's been tom torlakson's approach. woman: torlakson has supported legislation to guarantee spending decisions about our education tax dollars are made by parents, teachers and the local community... and not by sacramento politicians. and we need to keep that legislation on track. man: so tell tom torlakson to keep fighting for local control of school funding decisions. well, it was the if he can focus of donald sterling's grants and he's standing his ground. sterling, you may recall, insulting johnson for having hiv, questioned his commitment to minority causes, among other things. even with that, the nba legend says he would have remained silent, but when sterling discussed the african-american community, magic says he had to speak up. and here's what he had to say to anderson cooper. >> it was sort of disappointing. but i had to respond in terms of, okay, you don't want me to come to your games. i won't come to your games. you don't have to worry about that. but also, i was upset because he threw minorities in, african-americans, latinos, into this situation. and so i had to speak up. look, i'm one of the leaders of the black community. so i can't let anybody attack our people and not respond. and so that's why i responded. >> when -- first of all, you said you were photographed with v. stiviano. you're probably photographed with -- >> millions of people. >> he claimed in this interview i did with him the other day, he said you knew her, you knew her well. >> these are the facts, anderson. i never met this young lady. i took a picture with her. it looked like at a dodger game. that's it. that's all i know of her. you know, and then he says i'm trying to set him up. how am i trying to set you up? he asked me to go on the bar barbara walters show with him. >> a week and a half ago. because he met with barbara walters on a friday. >> it was before that. i told him i wouldn't do it. i said the number one thing you need to do, which you haven't done, is apologize to everybody and myself. i'll get to that, i'll get to that. >> so he wanted you to go on with barbara walters, sitting next to him? >> sitting next to him. >> to kind of give him cover? >> exactly. so i said no. then i told him, i said, donald, you should consult with your attorneys. i said this thing is a big thing. and you should deal with your attorneys and let them advise you on what to do. but i said, you need to go public and apologize to everybody. >> how did he respond? >> well, i'll apologize later. but i want you to go on this show. he was adamant about me going on this show with him. and i told him no, i wouldn't do it. and that's what happened. this is really weird. i'm really disturbed by the fact that, you know, he -- when he called me, he should have said, "magic, i'm sorry." >> right, i asked him specifically if he apologized to you and he said no. >> no. >> it seemed like a surprise to him that he would actually be expected to make an apology to you. >> well, he's the one who said don't brimagic to my games. so, you know, he's the one who made these comments. so i was expecting at least an apology. and the american public wanted an apology. he finally did that. but this is -- it's sad. when i saw the interview, it's sad. it really is. i'm going to pray for this young man. i hope donald can see the mistake that he has made, and also the people he has hurt along the way. and then what's really sad, you know, it's not about me. this is about the woman you love outing you and taping you and putting your -- putting your conversation out here for everybody to know. that wasn't me. i didn't do that. i don't know this young lady. this is between you two. but then he wants to include me. and i'm not included in this situation. and then he wants to -- you know, ask me what i've done, you know in the minority community. that's well-documented, what i've done. >> so what is the impact of this? let's bring in jerome williams, retired nba player and global sports ambassador and david cornwell, sports attorney from gordon and reese llp. let me start with you, counselor. magic johnson did not have to do this interview. this is not about him, as he says. but what value do you think it provided, hearing from him? >> magic johnson, the basketball player, has another triple double. earvin johnson, rebutted donald sterling's racist rant by his mere presence. and, you know, it's almost unfortunate that magic had to do the interview to -- he ended up almost dignity and he certainly responded and knocked the ball out of the park. he made it clear, he's right, sterling is wrong. >> jerome williams, not only a player for a long time, vp of the players' union. in terms of how the players will see any chance of saving donald sterling in the league. when they hear that he didn't apologize to magic johnson but asked him to go on a tv show, is that the death sentence? >> yeah. that's going to resonate with the players. and, you know, to say that donald sterling has really, you know, set himself up for disasters is an understatement. i mean, here's a guy who has now -- we have heard from magic and his point of view and what happened and what took place. and it just paints this picture of a guy who lies, who isn't very honest, who is trying to wiggle out of a hole he just can't get out of. it's very unfortunate. i really do side with magic johnson, just praying for this man, this individual, who, you know, obviously has some issues that people have known about. and i again just reiterate, you know, the players' solidarity and unifiedness with staying with the commissioner on this issue of being banned for life. >> whom to agree with is somewhat easy in it this situation, the way it sets up right now. what to do about it gets a little bit more complicated. and i say that, david cornwell, because you had the owners meet yesterday but pretty quickly adjourned and said we'll meet again next week, no vote. what does that indicate? >> i think that the owners recognize that we are in the kind of highly highlight of the nba season. and the more they do about donald sterling, the more they take the focus away from the game. so i don't think that we're actually going to have a final vote on sterling's status as an owner until after the nba finals. i certainly wouldn't do it if i were the nba owners. i wouldn't take the attention away from these great playoffs and put it on this man. he doesn't deserve the focus. >> okay. counter point that i'll put to you jerome williams. donald sterling doesn't deserve the attention. but the issue does. but making a statement about what is tolerated and who we are as a people and a culture, as reflected by what we respect and make out of bounds in the nba does. so do you think that the owners should be acting now? >> well, i definitely feel as though they should act. but it's a double-edged sword. i mean, the nba playoffs should be getting all the attention. magic said it best. he, you know -- us taking our time for donald sterling and away from this great game that has been built in these exciting playoffs. last night's game with okc and l.a. clippers was a phenomenal finish. but here this morning we're talking about donald sterling. i think that it is playing a major role in these playoffs, because race in this country has always been a defining moment, a defining conversation for generations. and it seems this 80-year-old man has definitely put his stamp on this mark of this great game because of his comments that were recorded. and it's really put us in a bad spot, i believe. >> all right. jerome williams, david cornwell, i appreciate the perspective this morning. we'll all be watching the games, of course. and they have been awesome. but this issue looms large, and the action on it is going to be importantel sw. gentlemen, thank you very much. now, you want to look it at this situation, you have magic, you have donald sterling, you want to hear from both, what makes more sense, you'll have another chance to hear from sterling. more of his exclusive interview on "ac 360" tonight, 8:00 p.m. eastern only here on cnn. we'll take a quick break now. when we come back on "new day," this war of words. karl rove says that hillary clinton may have some type of mental health -- some brain injury. he suggests that. now republicans are criticizing his remarks. but we're all talking about it, kate. so maybe he did what he wanted to do. and this will be your premium right here. sorry to interrupt, i just want to say, i combined home and auto with state farm, saved 760 bucks. love this guy. okay, does it bother anybody else that the mime is talking? 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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. to hear more of karen's story, visit lyrica.com. woman: this is not exactly what i expected. man: definitely more murdery than the reviews said. captain obvious: this is a creepy room. man: oh hey, captain obvious. captain obvious: you should have used hotels.com. their genuine guest reviews are written by guests who have genuinely stayed there. instead of people who lie on the internet. son: look, a finger. captain: that's unsettling. man: you think? captain: all the time. except when i sleep. which i would not do here. hotels.com would have mentioned the finger. did karl rove really just suggest that hillary clinton may have brain damage? well, here's why people are asking that today. republican strategist karl rove suggested that more needs to be made of hillary clinton's 2012 concussion and subsequent hospital stay. he said, quoting him right now, 30 days in the hospital, and when she reappears she's wearing glasses that are only for people who have traumatic brain injury? we need to know what's up with that. now tuesday, rove back-peddled saying he never said she had brain damage. . >> my point was that hillary clinton wants to run for president, but she would not be human if this didn't enter in as a consideration. if -- and my other point is, this will be ab an issue in the 2016 race, whether she likes it or not. . >> joining us is now is tracy, ready for hillary, democratic communication strategist and mr. kevin madden, cnn political commentator and republican strategist. kevin madden, good to see you, my friend. >> good to see you, chris. >> she wasn't in the hospital 30 days. she was in the hospital three days. there are no special tbi glasses. i mean, i hate that i'm -- this is working. it's working, because i'm talking to you about it. but hopefully we use the opportunity to condemn when someone has gone too far. can you defend what he said? >> well, look, i think it was a rather awkward and as you pointed out, an erroneous statement he made. but i don't think it was -- an intentional one designed to in any way bring hillary clinton's health into the conversation in a negative way. i think it was a very awkward attempt at making a pretty obvious point, which is that noncandidates, which hillary clinton technically is, they don't get a level of scrutiny that official candidates in a 2016 race might get. and that when you do enter into a race, that level of scrutiny requires that you have to answer some tough questions that you haven't answered in the past about your health, about your finances, about past statements. so i think if anything, karl rove was making a point that should hillary clinton decide or even going through the stanls stages of deciding, these are the type of things she is going to have to consider as she looks at a prospective 2016 campaign. >> take me to the other side, tracy. >> there are several truths here. the first is, at any point in the election cycle, a lie from karl rove is a lie from karl rove. that's -- that's what we're talking about here. the other truth are that there continue to be over the years, over these election cycles, when karl rove engages in one of these fiendish tricks, there is a positive correlation between how others react to that. and what i mean is, you have continuing, growing, strong and earnest support for hillary clinton that in these past few days has only continued to grow. this weekend, for example, she released a wonderful excerpt from her memoir, a very warm, poignant conversation about being a mother, being a daughter. and that's the hillary clinton that people respond to. when karl rove attacks, that enthusiasm for her only grows. these are the truths that we're dealing with. >> hoisted on one's own pitard, a bomb you strap on and blows up before you wound up doing the damage you wanted to do. is this going to be a situation like that, do you think, kevin? >> well, look. i think as tracy points out, this is what democrats like. they like to run against a -- as they say, a fiendish character like karl rove. they like to engender a lot of sympathy, not only in their base, but among some of the voters that haven't yet made up their mind. the reach we're talking about this today has less too with whether or not the facts related to hillary clinton's health. it has to do with the fact that while hillary clinton is not an official candidate, her organization and her supporters, they're acting like one. they seized on this as an opportunity to drive a contrast with someone like karl rove, to express some outrage and maybe engender some sympathy for hillary clinton. and also, you know, late yesterday afternoon, some democrat organizations were raising money on this, by pointing out that karl rove is up to his old tricks again. if anything, you're seeing a democrat machine that does support hillary clinton, uses this as an opportunity. >> raising money on this. is that worse than raising money on benghazi, kevin madden? >> i'm not judging it. i think that when political organizations feel they have a message to get out to supporters, and that that support can come in terms of money or whether it's voicing their opinion of support, i think that's all part of the political system. >> the point is, no party has the market cornered when it comes to dirty tricks. this seems to be one playing out right now. let me ask you this, tracy. is this the price of you guys playing this game of not committing to the election? you know, if you don't come out and just say, yes, of course, we're running, you are going to start taking more pot shots, because people think you're getting a pass. >> well, there is no game being played here. this is a serious and earnest effort to mobilize millions of supporters of hillary clinton. so that if she does decide to run, she has that army of support behind her immediately. that's not a game. that's a very serious and earnest attempt to be prepared for what obviously is going to be a tough election cycle, should she decide to run. the substance of karl rove's lies are so offensive and so deeply insulting on so many levels, that if anyone is playing a game, it's him. and in this case, it's backfiring. and i'm glad to be able to say that as emphatically as many believe. >> as i let you guys go, any idea when you will announce she is running and make the campaign official? >> yeah. tracy, make some news. >> will definitely have the opportunity to speak about her forthcoming book. i know i'm really looking forward to reading it, if her excerpt on mother's day was any indication. it's going to be a tremendous read. she has a tremendous story to tell. and she has tremendous gifts to offer to this country. >> that wasn't even close to an answer to my question, tracy. but it was very good pushing the book. you see both parties can play the game very well. >> i'm looking forward to that book. i've got to say. >> of course you are. you're working for hillary. >> so are republican opposition researchers, tracy. >> working for hillary is a completely independent super pac. we're not working for hillary clinton, we're supporting her. >> we're all going to read the book. the point is, we want the game to be played better and more fairly than in the past, and that's why we're trying to check karl rove and want hillary to commit. let's try to keep the games to a minimum. >> let's talk about that in our book club. >> great. i'll see you at the book club. thank you very much to both of you. now in this week's human factor. opera singer eric jordan had a soaring career with the metropolitan opera when a stroke nearly ended it until he fought back. here is cnn's dr. sanjay gupta. ♪ >> every time i sing, my soul is bared. >> reporter: when he had a stroke a year-and-a-half ago, aopera singer eric jordan's ability to sing was stifld. 5:30 a.m. the morning of the stroke. 18-month-old gabrielle crawls into bed with his parents and everyone goes back to sleep, except eric. >> he never stopped kind of moving around and jerking around. then i realized, there is something wrong. >> reporter: then, the moving around stopped abruptly. >> i slapped him. he wouldn't wake up. >> reporter: later at the hospital, doctors removed three large clots in eric's brain. saving eric's life. ♪ and his ability to sing. only eight weeks after his stroke, the base was back on stage at new york's metropolitan opera. >> this is a very magical house. >> reporter: eric says that recovering from a stroke has forced him to slow down. and to savor life's small blessings. and to accept this new version of himself. >> how you change the way that you look at something helps you change yourself. >> reporter: dr. sanjay gupta, cnn, reporting. >> sanjay, thank you so much. coming up next on "new day," the long-awaited 9/11 museum finally set to open. we'll have a special look inside the experience, solemn and striking, no doubt. carved into the footprint of the fallen towers. when laquinta.com sends him a ready for you alert the second his room is ready, ya know what salesman alan ames becomes? 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[is engineered for comfort.hing that goes into a lennox system like parts that create your perfect temperature and humidity or the parts that purify the air. together these parts can cut your heating and cooling bills in half. which is quite comforting. and here's the best part... call now to get up to 1,700 dollars back or special financing on select lennox home comfort systems. offer ends june 13th. plus download our free lennox mobile app with an energy-savings calculator. if your current system is 10 years or older, start planning now. and take advantage of special financing. so call now to get up to 1,700 dollars back or special financing on select lennox home comfort systems. offer ends june 13th. and download our free lennox mobile app. lennox. innovation never felt so good. welcome back to "new day." president obama and the first lady heading to new york in advance of the long-awaited opening of the national september 11th memorial museum at ground zero. we've got a sneak peek inside the museum, which chronicles that day, the lives lost and the heroes that emerged. >> these tridents were from the north tower, covered in the aftermath of the attacks. we brought them back here and basically built the museum around them. >> nearly 13 years after terrorists destroyed the twin towers, killing almost 3,000 people, the 9/11 memorial museum is set to open. a commemoration of the day america changed forever. you're not whitewashing it. this is the raw, dirty material. >> exactly. this is the steel that bore the attacks. >> the museum is built almost entirely underground, some 70 feet down. it sits in the precise footprint of the world trade center. >> this is exactly where the south tower started, and went up 1,350 feet. >> a striking display of the sheer scale of the destruction with poignant reminders of the tragedy at every turn. >> this is unbelievable. >> this is actually the front of this fire truck. this is the cab. >> you wouldn't know. >> wouldn't know. and it's completely burned out and destroyed. >> then there's the retaining wall that remarkably held strong, even when the towers fell. >> when the towers came down, all that debris that was here right in this space provided bracing for that wall. and when that debris was clear, there was a big concern the wall would breach, would flood lower manhattan. >> it could have been so much worse. but this wall held under all of that pressure. visitors will also walk alongside the survivor stairs. >> used by hundreds of people as the buildings are crumbling, running from the dust cloud, to escape to safety. and it's for all our visitors to understand the story of survival. >> and likely one of the most emotional stops in the museum, this art installation mimics the blue sky on that fateful morning. behind it, the still unidentified remains of 9/11 victims. the move met with mixed emotion from their families. >> still shocking statistic is that 1,100 family members never got any human remains back to bury. never got to go through the ritual of laying their loved ones to rest. it's not a public space at all. only family members are allowed back behind the wall. >> right next door, a room dedicated to the lives of those lost. >> adjacent to this is the reflection room, which is so important, and why we can't show it and won't show it is because the families get to see it first. >> exactly. that room is an area called in memoriam. and it's a photographic portrait of each and every one of the 2,983 victims. you see pictures, a father coaching his son's little league team. a wedding. you see the lives lost that day, and not just about how they died. it's who these people were. >> throughout the museum, chilling reminders of the day. handmade flyers for the missing. a cross emerging from the wreckage. everyday items simply left behind. >> we help through these artifacts and images tell the story. it was panic, and people were getting out as fast as they could. >> and it's not just the shoes. it tells -- the shoes worn by this woman, linda, you're telling everything about that day. and while the museum is vast, one small exhibit has been the biggest source of controversy. its focus, the terrorists themselves. including a film criticized for not making a clear enough distinction between islam and al qaeda. >> there has been a lot of criticism. why give any time to the terrorists? >> you know, it's one way to look at it is you don't build a holocaust museum and not be very clear that the nazis were the ones who committed those atrocities. al qaeda was an extremist, terrorist group that essentially bastardized that religion for their own purposes. but no one will come through this exhibit and in any way think that we are indicting an entire religion, which we in no way are. >> it seems very appropriate that you end here. at the last call. >> and it's, again, goes right back to resiliency, seeing those messages of hope, and remembrance on this very tall column that's still standing strong. >> and that last column, of course, is the last piece of steel really standing after the towers fell. the president, the first lady, they're going to tour the museum. they're going to go through the experience before the president is expected to speak at this dedication ceremony. that's tomorrow and then it opens to the general public next week. >> as a jaded new yorker, you feel you've seen everything, i cannot wait to see this. and you said take your time. >> take your time. they estimate on average it will take people -- visitors about two hours to make it through the museum. it's a huge amount of space. you should take a lot of time. and you'll be surprised. i venture to guess. what triggers emotions that will come back. >> to me, i think it will be the jumpers. even the planes going -- i know it's terrible. people hate to see those planes, but the jumpers. we don't sew that on television. >> it is included in the museum. it's a very difficult thing and they said it was a difficult decision, what to show and not. they do show the video of people jumping from the towers. it is hidden behind a wall. you need to make a conscience effort to go see it if you want to, because they understand the sensitivities. they thought it was important to show what people -- what the position was that people were put in, and had to make that decision. there's warnings throughout. >> people have very different reactions. you know? >> absolutely. >> for you, you're on it with fresh eyes. you didn't have to cover it at that time. being down in philly. but those who lived through it, the families, they're going to have one set of feelings, especially if they're waiting for remains and now they're in some museum instead of in their private possession. and for those who lived it, it will be interesting to me to see what the -- what the approach is for people. i've been down there several times. it's gone through several times of development and stoppage. but it is very powerful. there's nothing else that we as a nation have experienced like it. >> yeah. >> and it will be interesting to see who is going. you know? and what the takeaway is from it. they have put a lot of thought into it. >> and there is also uh a museum, you realize -- that there isn't a museum like it or an experience like it, where there is such a collective connection to it. and it does feel so real. because everyone did live through it in some way. some of the artifacts you will -- i'll tell you, you'll be surprised what hits you. seeing the eyeglasses that were -- burned. that really hit me. because there's -- my husband -- my husband, before i met him, he had to -- when -- he had to flee from the deutsche bank building. that was the story, he had to leave his eyeglasses behind and never recovered it. and it's just one of those things that triggers a memory and emotion. >> tough for someone who has to live through it. of when we looked at the wall of the missing, three of my pals were still up there. so you never know what it's going to be. but it was important they took the time to do it. >> and in general -- opens to the general public next week. >> check it out for yourself. we're going to take a quick break here on "new day." see you back after the commercial. i always say be the man with the plan but with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive, i had to do something. i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. we talked about axiron the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to normal in about two weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant, and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer, worsening prostate symptoms, decreased sperm count, ankle, feet or body swelling, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing while sleeping and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about axiron. most of the time people are shocked when we show them where they're getting the acid, and what those acids can do to the enamel. there's only so much enamel on a tooth, and everybody needs to do something about it now if they want to preserve their teeth. i recommend pronamel because it helps strengthen the tooth and makes it more resistant to acid breakdown. we want to be healthy and strong through the course of our life, and by using pronamel every day, just simply using it as your toothpaste, you know you will have that peace of mind. ♪ you know, this is a fight that the internet just can't stop talking about. really, everybody can't stop talking about. security video showing beyonce's sister, solange, allegedly attacking jay-z in an elevator and now the elite new york hotel where the video was taken says it is investigating how it was leaked. faz o, author of "concierge el - confidential" and senior editor at the "wall street journal." does anybody know what happened here? >> i've got to rain on the parade a little bit here. i don't know what happened in the elevator. what's more, i don't care. i think the core of the story is not really a story. and the real story really is -- and we're going to see more and more stories of this sort based on surveillance videos, the cameras everywhere these days and even the media needs to do a better job deciding what a story is, and whether it's worth doing segments and stories about it. >> i have to disagree. i think it's a story because of the interest. that's all anyone is talking about. you can mention any other story and they'll say what do you think happened on that elevator with bee yoenls. >> people are interested in pornography too, and we don't always cover that. donald sterling is a story. >> that doesn't mean it's news worthy. you have celebrities in an elevator fighting. >> i think there are things around the story that may be newsworthy. for example, hotel security. >> the video. you have two of the biggest stars in the world in an elevator with a sister who is pummelling the husband. that -- you're going to tell me that's not newsworthy? come on, brother. >> yes, i'm going to say it's not newsworthy. >> you're crazy. >> and here's why. >> tell us why. >> we're going to see more and more stories of this sort where people have hotel surveillance of people, where they have found camera footage, drop cams everywhere. and what about that story is newsworthy? we'll never know what really happened between solange and beyonce. >> do you mean newsworthy, or do you mean how it is procured? >> how it is procured, without a doubt. >> no. we get to what aspect is newsworthy. the family dysfunction, if there is any, i don't think that's a story. the story how this affects maybe jay-z and beyonce's upcoming tour, maybe that's a story. the story how it affects solange's own solo tour, maybe that's a story. >> we've got to talk about that aspect of the other part of the story, which is how this was procured and what a problem this could be for the standard hotel. >> that's the story. >> the standard is immune, because it's andre bilaz. >> the developer and proprietor. >> just as famous -- famous people stay in his hotels. i think the problem here, as we become more attracted and celebrities become more attracted to these cool, trendy places, we have to remember that it's still hospitality and you don't cross the line. and even though it's casual and cool and everybody is really hip, you still have to abide by those hospitality standards. where what happens in the hotel stays in the hotel. >> what does the standard need to do? >> money. money is why they're releasing the tape. somebody got their hands on the tape. >> what should the standard do? >> there is not a culture of service there, maybe. this doesn't always happen in these iconic legacy brands like the ritz carlton or the four seasons where plenty of stuff is going on in the elevator, as well. >> i don't think it will affect the standard -- the standard will be the last place anything is leaked. i think they will make sure of that now. >> absolutely. >> how do you do that? there is the incentive, the money. >> because it -- it starts with remembering that we're in hospitality and it's a culture of service. >> think about where you put cameras also, maybe. >> the cameras need to be there just in case. the thing is, this was a breach of security. the only people who have access to view that are security guards in the hotel. >> this is not going to be hard to find out who did it. >> well, i'm not a detective, but i think it would be easy. >> it's going to be hard. >> he'll have to fire some people to get it out. do you think that the david -- donald sterling story isn't a story because of how the tape was procured? >> no, it doesn't have to do with how it was procured. it has to do with what the tape was about. racism. owner of a team. in this particular case, oh owe. >> the private lives of celebrities? >> people are interested in this story because beyonce has done a great job of keeping people out. able to release a whole album and we didn't know until the album came out. now there is this tape -- >> it doesn't mean -- >> we're all feeling -- >> they're interested because there was a fight on the elevator and big stars. >> caught on tape. >> it was a fight. >> what the heck set solange off. that's the story. >> and i'm saying we're going to see more and more things like that and just because it's a hash tag doesn't necessarily mean it's worthy -- >> it's not the hash tag. people are interested. i want to know, everyone wants to know, what set solange off. what is going on in her world? does she have issues? how is it going to affect her career? >> i don't care what's going on in her world. >> you don't. but everybody else does. >> i care about the launch of her solo career. >> i don't care about the launch of her career at all. >> i don't care -- what's going on in solange's world. >> you're placing a high bar that is clearly not observed, certainly by the entertainment media, but the media overall. >> saying i don't care about solange's career? >> no, saying i don't care about a fist fight involving beyonce's sister and her husband. >> right. what happens about solange's career -- is that that is all pr-driven. this is a very real moment that makes people care about it. her career is going to -- the album is going to drop here. how do we do this, where do we have to get her in order to promote this album. we all get that. >> don, let's ask it this way. michael -- >> yes. . as not a member of the media, as -- from your position, watching this, do you think, aside from the standard hotel aspect of this, is it news? do you find it interesting? worthy of discussing or knowing more about? >> okay. the truth, not really. and i'll tell you why can. the people who are really famous in that elevator behaved beautifully. why? because they're professionals. i work in hotels long enough to know, when they're in the lobby, they know they're on camera. when they're in the elevator, hallway, they know they're on camera. and that's why they book three rooms on three floors, the decoy rooms. what happens in their room, we really don't know. >> which says a lot about who those people are, the way they reacted. really does. >> very poised. >> and i'm going to continue keeping that bar -- >> you fight until the end. >> the low bar, most americans -- >> i should have said it that way. it's not that i don't care, it's just that's all pr-driven. and when you see a real moment, that happens, oh, they've broken -- >> i like your bar. i wish it were the reality. but i don't know that people -- agree with you. >> keep doing chin-ups to try to stay at that bar. >> i wish it were the truth and i wish i didn't have to cover it. thank you. >> thank you, that was good. coming up, rescuers are frantically right now trying to find hundreds of people trapped underground after a mine disaster in turkey. the news room will be back with the latest right after the break. i'm randy and i quit smoking with chantix. for 33 years i chose to keep smoking... ...because it was easier to smoke than it was to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced the urge for me to smoke. it actually caught me by surprise. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop chantix and see your doctor right away as some could be life threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, or if you develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. i did not know what it was like to be a non-smoker. but i do now. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. ♪ "first day of my life" by bright eyes ♪ you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen.

Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello 20161031

all of this coming as the candidates blitz battleground states making their final pitch to voters. cnn is covering all angles of the story from washington to the campaign trail. we begin, though with senior political correspondent brianna keilar. good morning. >> good morning, carol. this is quite the october surprise. never before has a candidate been going into a major party candidate been going towards the election with something like this hanging over them. an fbi investigation. so hillary clinton's campaign is concerned, but they're also trying to change the narrative and take aim at the fbi director. >> it's pretty strange to put something like that out with such little information right before an election. >> reporter: shockwaves through hillary clinton's campaign following a surprise letter friday from fbi director james comey. >> if she never heard the word e-mail, do you think she'd be a very happy woman today? >> reporter: comey notifying members of congress that the bureau discovered e-mails that appear to be pertinent to the now closed clinton server investigation. those e-mails found on a laptop belonging to anthony weiner, the husband of clinton's long-time aide, huma abedin under investigation for sexting with an underage girl. comey can't say if the e-mails are significant, they could be duplicates of those already reviewed. democrats and some republicans are criticizing comey's decision to go public as political. worrying it could tip the scales in trump's favor. >> this is an unprecedented move as your folks were describing earlier because it happens close to an election which is in violation of normal justice department protocol and involves talking about an ongoing investigation. which also violates the protocol. >> reporter: senate minority leader harry reid penning a damning letter to comey saying he may have broken the law by violating the hatch act. a law that prohibits federal employees from engaging in political activity. as 100 former federal prosecutors and high-ranking justice department officials, democrats and republicans, sign a letter criticizing comey's actions. >> hillary has nobody to blame but herself. her criminal action was willful, deliberate, intentional and purposeful. >> reporter: but trump's campaign hoping to capitalize on the issue. >> we commend the fbi and the director on their decision to keep their word to the congress and move forward. >> reporter: house speaker paul ryan called comey's move, "long overdue." and renewing his call to suspend all classified briefings for secretary clinton until this matter is fully resolved. clinton remaining confident that she is in the clear. >> we've called on director comey to explain everything right away, put it all out on the table. of course, donald trump is already making up lies about this. >> reporter: hillary clinton getting some help today from eric holder, the former ag of the obama administration. he pens a "washington post" op-ed and it says in part he's deeply concerned about what he calls a vague letter to congress that comey sent. he said the decision was incorrect. and he said that comey violated rules that he should not have been talking about an ongoing investigation, and also that he shouldn't have taken action on anything so close to the election, which is actually a rule that holder himself put in place. >> all right. brianna keilar reporting live from washington. for her part clinton continues to make her closing arguments to voters in battleground states, doing it on the ground and on the airwaves. today clinton will hold two rallies in ohio, just one of several states where a new clinton ad will soon run warning about donald trump and nuclear weapons. cnn's senior washington correspondent jeff zeleny is traveling with the clinton campaign. good morning, jeff. >> good morning, carol. hillary clinton is trying to change the conversation. change the message back to the closing argument here with donald trump. so she is heading back to ohio. battleground ohio. to a rally on the campus of kent state university in northeast ohio. and then going to cincinnati later this evening. ohio, of course, one of the central messages here. but what she's also trying to do, carol, as we see in a new television ad, is remind people some of the questions that they may have had about donald trump. let's take a look at this new ad. >> this was me in 1964. the fear of nuclear war that we had as children i never thought our children would ever have to deal with that again. and to see that coming forward in this election is really scary. >> trump asked three times -- >> of course, that is the famous ad from 1964, the johnson/goldwater campaign, the daisy ad and you see that young girl, now a grown woman of course, being interviewed in that ad, being used by the clinton campaign to make a fresher argument about donald trump and whether or not he is qualified to be president. that will be one of the messages she tries to talk about today. but it still remains to be seen the impact of all of this fbi discussion over the weekend. the clinton campaign believes that they are holding onto democrats but they are worried about end pentd pents and moderates as well so they are still out in the field sort of seeing what the fallout of this is. i'm told she will not talk about this today. she's going to try and talk about donald trump. carol? >> all right, jeff zeleny reporting from white plains, new york, this morning. thank you. let's talk about all this. with me is matthew miller former department of justice spokesman and hillary clinton supporter, david rifkin is a former deputy director for the department of justice. zpeek miller is a political reporter for "time" and lynn sweet is the washington bureau chief for the chicago sun times. welcome to all of you. david, the fbi knew about these e-mails weeks ago. why wait until eight days before the election to release them? >> we know by now is that they did not have a warrant until this weekend. to start looking at the content to analyze the metadata. they were trying to be deliberate. they were trying to be careful. under the circumstances, i would see absolutely no evidence that fbi acted with anything other than the highest level of professionalism. let me just make one simple point. not releasing any information is a decision just as -- with as much impact as releasing some information. fbi is trying to demonstrate, director comey is trying to demonstrate that there's no cover-up. trying to defend the credibility of our top law enforcement agency at a time when frankly many americans have deep doubts about the integrity of our government. and this is the same director comey, by the way, whom democrats were praising as recently as a few days ago for his -- >> and the republicans were maligning, right? >> right. so, i mean, look, you cannot have it both ways. again, he had a tough choice. he had to release this information. he told congress that he would keep them updated. and, i would say one thing. the only reason he made this decision is because he and senior fbi officials must have real concerns while this data is being analyzed about the body of those e-mails. >> they have real concerns. matthew i want to be clear for my viewers. we do not know if these e-mails are related to clinton's server. we do not know if these e-mails were actually written by hillary clinton. we do not know whether these e-mails are damaging. so, how likely is it that the fbi will come to any sort of conclusion before election day? >> i think it's going to be extremely difficult for them to do that. which goes to the point that what a bad decision it was for comey to take this step. i couldn't disagree with what david said more. not releasing information isn't a decision. not releasing information is the policy. it's the long-standing policy of the department. because, when you release information like this, there's no way for voters to have any idea what the fbi is actually looking at. and part of the reason in this case is the fbi doesn't even know what they're looking at. they don't know whether these e-mails are duplicates of things they've already reviewed. they don't know whether these e-mails are things that are -- are e-mails that even come from secretary clinton. it was a really, you know, gross violation by director comey that flies in the face of everything the department does. both in commenting on existing investigations and in doing so so close to the election. really troubling act by the director. >> here's the other thing, lynn, "the wall street journal" is reporting there's there, there, there are 650,000 e-mails on weiner's service -- 650,000 is that possible? that's a lot of e-mails. >> it seems like a giant number and donald trump has been using that number in his campaign rallies, carol, over the weekend just to show the enormity of it. so we don't know, let's add to the we don't know. we don't know what the e-mails are. we don't know what that 650,000 includes. or if it's anthony weiner's e-mails. now we know that some -- that the fbi said that there were some -- you know, some e-mail trail there. that just adds to the enormity of the decision by comey to go to congress when he didn't even have, it seems, some of the basic facts about what is there, and therefore i don't 24i you're misleading anybody. it was a very preliminary investigation and the fbi does not usually alert congress of very preliminary investigations no matter how news worthy. >> you heard what lynn said. trump is already connecting the e-mails from weiner's laptop to clinton's server even though they're not connected. will voters realize that? >> you know we have to consider that so many people have already voted more than 20 million people have cast ballots in this race. in some states the clinton campaign believes that they already have within the next couple days they'll have banked the number of votes required to win even before election day. nevada, what robby mook said the other day. but at the same time for the voters who are in the middle who haven't made up their mind yet, which is a very small number, is this the sort of thing that's really going to sway them? they've heard a lot about clinton e-mails over the last year and a half. for a lot of them it's been kind of baked in. obviously this is a bit of momentum for donald trump who's had a lot of trouble bringing republicans back home. this will rally the republican base and contribute to driving his numbers up. sort of the biggest contributing factor for donald trump now narrowing the gap over the last week and a half and been republicans coming home in light of podesta e-mails, obamacare and now this. the question is, he still doesn't have a ground game, doesn't have a way of getting those voters to actually show up and cast their ballot for him. this might not be enough to do that. >> i want to go back to the investigation itself. because david donald trump is accusing clinton of criminal action. but if the e-mails are christian by her aide huma abedin, how could clinton herself be charged? >> let's forget what donald trump is saying. i want to make a very important correction. there's evidence based upon reporting by "the wall street journal" and other papers that thousands of these e-mails have metadata that indicates there was a traffic back and forth between hillary clinton's private server, and those e-mails from huma abedin. it's also possible based on metadata analysis, and all the fbi has been doing for the last several weeks, to discern at least with some degree of confidence what the e-mails cover. so i would hazard a guess that these are not e-mails of a private nature. they're e-mails, indeed from her server. now the big question is, why is this body of e-mails being discovered now? after everybody involved gave assurances to the fbi that all their devices had been turned over. all available preserved e-mails that have not been deleted have been provided. this is a big deal. let me just say one more point if director comey did not go with this letter you and i and everybody on this program knows this information would have leaked. it would have been far worse for the health of our democracy to have front page stories in every newspaper, indicating a cover-up on the part of the fbi and the justice department. >> oh, i hear you. >> so director comey had no choice. >> i hear you but, but matthew that is the most confusing thing to me what david just brought up. how did these e-mails get on anthony weiner's computer, huma -- sources tell us huma abedin says she has no idea. so how did that happen? >> we have no idea. we have no idea about any of this. that's part of the problem. we've seen leaks. we don't know. and i think part of that is because the fbi doesn't know. what, what they have. they didn't get a warrant until yesterday. that really it's, it's, it's such a troubling thing, as i said earlier, to have this kind of reporting, you know, david said that this would have -- director comey had to do this because it would have leaked. well the fbi has apparently known about these e-mails for weeks and it hasn't leaked yet. i don't know why he felt the need to suddenly rush this letter out now. secondly i would say the fact that he can't control his own department from leaking is not an argument for him to then violate department rules and precedents that have stood the test of time for years. >> all right. i have to leave it there. matthew miller, david rifkin, zeke miller and lynn sweet. donald trump is focusing on blue. will this final stretch strategy pay off? oh, look... ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula available. it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and... ...even deep wrinkles. 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"see what's possible." donald trump's map to victory is unusual this late in the game. he's not shoring up support in red states, but blue. warning democratic leaning voters in new mexico that a clinton presidency will lead to a surge of illegal immigrants. >> you could have 650 million people pour in and we do nothing about it. think of it. that's what could happen. you triple the size of our country in one week. once you lose control of your borders, you have no country, folks. >> new mexico isn't the only blue state trump is targeting. he's hitting a string of them this week. some say it's just kind of strange. so let's talk about this strategy with jeff roe the former campaign manager for ted cruz's presidential campaign. welcome, jeff. >> thank you for having me. >> nice to have you here. so we're eight days out. trump has long needed to expand his base. but, but isn't it a little late at this point in the game? >> well, there's eight days left until you have -- still have four days left for persuasion before you have to get into the last four days which is all get out the vote. what the trump team is looking at, let's assume they have florida and north carolina. let's assume they have nevada and iowa. let's assume that they still have ohio in their camp. they still need another state. so they can pick one state. they could pick maybe just pick a michigan or wisconsin or new mexico. they can pick one of those states and put all their chips in that state but i think it's smart to spread it out. keep in mind, this is all without any data. because the last data that you get out of the field was last thursday. and on thursday, obviously was a big day but friday was an enormous day that maybe scrambled the entire map. it's hard to poll in one night. today is halloween. no polling today. then they get polls tomorrow night late and so a lot of us are having to make on gut which is i think maybe why you see some erratic decisions. the fact of the matter is, they have to put a new state in play in order to get over 270. >> let's talk about what new state has been put into play, right? because, donald trump is going to focus on michigan. but a poll done for the detroit free press has clinton up seven points. that's a lot of ground to make up. >> it is a lot. ohio -- so with a republican doing so well in ohio, you would think that he would have a better opportunity or wisconsin or michigan. michigan has been a very difficult state for trump. one because good blue collar support for him there. but those suburban areas of detroit are going to be very difficult. it's much like pennsylvania in that way wp more than ohio. i think wisconsin is a state, it swings back and forth. it elects scott walker, or republican legislature, send democrats to congress, and the united states senate. so it's back and forth states. but that's a blue collar state that he should have in his column. and i think it's the best opportunity that he has on the map. >> but, but, but in some of these swing states right now, ohio for example, it's really close there. right? he has a very small lead. so why not go there, where voters aren't particularly excited about hillary clinton even in northeast ohio, cuyahoga county where there are many african-american voters why not go there and like really jazz people to get to the polls to vote? >> well, i think that's what they'll do the last four days. that's why i said there's two kind of split in half. next four days he still has a chance to bring states into play. the last four days he's got to camp out and, if you will, hunt where the ducks are, and ohio he has to win, to even worry about wisconsin. he has to win north carolina to worry about another state and florida and i think you'll see him shore those states up. he has in the polling that i've seen, he has soft leads in all those states or within the margin of error. but he does have to bring another state even if he won all those states it's not enough so he could have a really strong base of 266 and just not get there. that's why they have to find another state to put in play. >> okay so here's the other thing. millions of americans have already voted. and i have trouble believing there are many undecided voters out there, jeff. i just do. so, will any of this really matter? >> well, so there are 22 million people who voted. we're going to have about 122 million people. so there's 100 million people left to vote. what always happens in campaigns is the early voter, typically the most partisan, so you're just banking your own votes. in fact, you cannibalize election day support to get it in early so you don't have to worry about it any longer. the second piece of it is here is where the undecideds are. i don't believe anybody is choosing between hillary clinton and donald trump at this stage of the game. i do think they're choosing on whether to vote or not. and i do believe they're choosing to vote for a third party or not. if trump lags support with republicans. if he gets every republican to vote for him he wins the election. but he needs 90%, plus he's only getting 80%. and so those people that are choosing between not voting or voting, which -- or whether to vote for johnson or not or stein or not, those are the people that are swinging around at this stage in the game. and that's why the e-mails scandal, the latest iteration of the e-mail scandal is important. nobody's going to change their mind. it's whether they participate and whether they swing to and from the libertarian or not. >> fascinating. jeff roe, thanks so much. still to come, could hillary clinton's top aide become her top liability with just days before the election? we'll have that discussion next. before taking his team to state for the first time... gilman: go get it, marcus. go get it. ...coach gilman used his cash rewards credit card from bank of america to earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. at places like the batting cages. ♪ [ crowd cheers ] 2% back at grocery stores and now at wholesale clubs. and 3% back on gas. which helped him give his players something extra. the cash rewards credit card from bank of america. more cash back for the things you buy most. and good morning, i'm carol costello. thanks so much for joining me. e-mails linked to hillary clinton's top aide are roiling her run for president eight days before the election. the fbi discovered thousands of e-mails involving huma abedin on her husband's computer. abedin's estranged husband, as you know, is anthony weiner, who is under investigation for sexting with a 15-year-old girl. >> i wonder, is she going to keep huma? huma's been a problem. do we agree? huma? huma's been a problem. i wonder if huma's going to stay there, and i hope they haven't given huma immunity. because it seemed that everybody that walked down the sidewalk got immunity. i hope they haven't given huma immunity, because she knows the real story. >> abedin is not commenting publicly but back in march she did talk about how it felt when the fbi released thousands of e-mails from clinton's personal server. >> i can't -- it's something i can't really think about, because i -- i can't even imagine what's in -- what's in those e-mails. but i'm sure i would be -- i would be -- i would probably be mortified. i have no idea. i haven't read any of them. >> joining me now to talk about this is brianna keilar. i'm also joined by cnn senior law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, also former assistant director of the fbi. welcome to both of you. tom, sources tell us abedin does not know how her e-mails landed on her husband's computer. how would you characterize that as an investigator? >> i can't confirm that she said anything to them. so i really don't know about that. >> so is it change that -- that -- because sources are telling cnn she doesn't know how her e-mails got on her husband's compute per so how -- isn't that -- is that strange in your mind? >> well i think it's strange, period. but again, this whole thing, and all of the aspects of director comey sending that letter friday, we really have to back track. everything about this case in the last four months has been very unusual. starting with bill clinton getting on the airplane with loretta lynch. as a result of that, and the uproar over that, she basically didn't recuse herself and say my deputy attorney general will be in the decisions make, or senior career prosecutor that the department of justice will be doing it, she deferred it completely to the fbi, completely to comey and director comey then on july 5th gave the press conference where he announced his results. he left, you know, during his testimony and other meetings on the hill he left it up that if a significant development arose he would let them know. and that's basically what's happened in the last couple of weeks. >> but, tom, in your mind, was all of the actions that director comey took up to speed? >> i'm sorry, could you ask that again? >> director comey, did he do everything right in this instance? because some democrats are asking him to step down. >> well, they didn't ask that back in july when he basically said the investigation was being closed. the next day loretta lynch said okay, i'm closing it for -- and actually for all of the subjects that were included in this investigation. but, any investigation, you know, the administrative act of closing a case, if it isn't because the prosecution's been completed, or the statute of limitations has run, if it isn't -- or the subject's died, it can be reopened. at any time. and if new information that wasn't in their hands back in july comes up, which is what's happened in this situation, he's perfectly, you know, able to reopen the case. now people are saying he violated the hatch act. well that's, you know, that's debatable. and the hatch act, like the clinton violation, required proof that he intended to affect the election. and he didn't intend to do that when he received all this new information about what was on anthony weiner's computer that included huma abedin. something else no one is talking about, director comey in july mentioned that that server, and that system, was not as secure as your standard gmail or other commercial internet accounts. five weeks ago, yahoo! announced that 500 million user names and pass words were breached in a hack. so -- and she has a yahoo! account. so that's another thing we don't know about, is who took those usernames. who has access to it. and her username, her yahoo! username has been on the internet. other networks, and text blogs, and programs like that, have shown it. have shown what her address was. so, so that's another possibility that is it's not just the fbi that's gotten a hold of whatever is on her computer. or his computer. >> so brianna, abedin was not on the campaign trail over the weekend. will we hear her make some sort of statement? >> i don't expect -- i'm not hearing that that's going to happen, carol. i wouldn't really expect that. because i think it might add a little fuel to the fire. and the other thing is, what would she comment on? i think there's a feeling that she wouldn't even know exactly what she's commenting on, because the fbi, while they've gotten a warrant to examine these e-mails, you know, they're not saying what's in them. they don't even know yet. they still have to do that. so i think there's -- it would be her saying something that maybe would just, you know, create more headlines on a story that's really bad for hillary clinton. >> so tom, where does the investigation go from here? >> well, where it goes is, that the step by step process is when they got anthony weiner's computer and saw there were indications of her e-mails on there, they're able, under subpoena, to look at the metadata and see which servers it went through, who transmitted what messages. they can get that information. but to get the content they need a search warrant. which they've just obtained. so the next step will be to review the content, and look at some of these messages. and also, remember, back in july the director didn't say that hillary clinton had done everything properly. he said that the reason he wasn't recommending charges, was because he couldn't find intent. and that there's thousands of messages on her e-mails, even if it's to other people, even if it's back and forth with cheryl mills, there may be information on there that demonstrates that what the intent of hillary clinton was from the beginning to create that server, and what is doing after the server was discovered, in connection with the investigation. that's one issue. a second issue is, anthony weiner is facing serious allegations of sexting with a minor with serious implications which could include jail time, and being on the sexual predator registry. he has a lot of incentive to try to make a deal with the federal government. and that's what should scare the clintons more than the content of these e-mails is anthony weiner is a wild card. they were married at the time. they were living together all through the time when hillary clinton was secretary of state. huma abedin has been the right arm of hillary clinton for many, many years. and what does anthony weiner know? and how does he know it? that's a critical question. >> so, so i guess the obvious question now brianna is should huma abedin remove herself from the campaign? should she step down? because she's proved to be quite the distraction. >> you know, i don't -- she's not an expendable staff member. and i don't mean to say that some are. but i'll be honest, you know, there are some people if they were the center of something and they might be sort of dismissed or encouraged to resign. this is one of hillary clinton's top aides. this is someone who has been a confidant of hearse for years and years. and hillary clinton prizes loyalty going both ways. huma abedin has been very loyal to her. but the other thing you have to remember, carol, is this all comes back to the original sin of hillary clinton using a personal e-mail address, and a private server while she was secretary of state. that's what started all of this. that's what has led to all of these things, even though they criticize james comey. in the absence of that, of hillary clinton having gone along with that, or having wanted that setup, you know, all of these other things would not have happened. so, i don't see -- i don't see huma abedin going. i think there would have to be an incredibly high threshold, and for sure this is not it. >> i have to leave it there. thanks so much. still to come in the "newsroom," after months of fighting isis to get close to the city of mosul, iraqi forces could now be within hours of entering the city. okay, so what's our latest data say? our customer is a 21-year-old female. heavily into basketball. wait. data just changed... now she's into disc sports. ah, no she's 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liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. iraqi troops are now within hours of entering the city of mosul. you can see them here at the eastern city limits. they have one last district to capture before they can enter the city. it could be soon, after months of already fierce fighting against isis, and even more intense fighting could begin within the city at any time. nick paton walsh has been embedded with the u.s.-trained iraqi special forces. tell us about it, nick. >> carol, they are edging towards those vital city limits here. hundreds of yards, in some cases, others a kilometer or so. and it's that main road that runs from where we saw the fighting start, just a few weeks ago now, to where they are hitting the city limits now where we saw ourselves some of the intense resistance isis is putting up. the last phase of lifting isis' dark curse from iraq begins here. trying to hit a spectral, fleeting enemy, lit only by the glow of mosul's city limits. barely two kilometers away. the iraqi special forces, trained by the u.s., target with a tank here. where they are attacked from during the day. telling us to use humvees as cover when they move. their commander major salim has fought isis in fallujah, ramadi, and now the end is near. where did the artillery land, he asks? just visible in the distant lights of mosul. this is the global tip of the spear in the war on isis. surging forwards, on a thin strip of land, into isis territory. and, as we see in the same area in daylight, facing constant counterattacks. here they can see isis just beyond the berms. the incoming is from behind it. a truck that pops up, opens fire and vanishes. isis less than a kilometer away firing at iraqi special forces position. this is a constant day in, day out. where is it moving, he asks? as fast as it emerged. the truck vanishes. here there are yet tougher hours ahead. darkness has just fallen, the sky is alight with ferocious fire power. isis have attacked the berms. suicide bombers. rocket-propelled grenades. it is constant, exhausting, closer and closer to the roof we are on. we simply do not know where in the town around us isis may have broken through. the most intense attack we've seen so far towards this iraqi special forces position. now, we move forwards, it seems, to try and stop them coming down the road. isis, despite being in their end's days still able to conjure the terror of omnipotence that began their savage rule. coming back, but we cannot film them. a steady stream. the unit we were with earlier on the roof have been hit. rockets struck, many of them asleep, tightly packed in a room. the blast killed 14 soldiers. many limbs torn clean off. major salim is shown the weapons of the dead. he pauses in emotion. >> you guys are heroes, he says, and none of you should be affected by this. those suicide bombers are nothing. two kilometers from mosul city, and seven left to the center to go. now, carol, as that noose tightens, and i should say this is not a very tight cordon, it's a rough movement of iraqi forces. we're seeing signs that the resistance, the insurrection inside the city itself, five isis leaders shot down in a drive-by shooting in the west of the city in the past day or so. we've been talking to people within that resistance, they have a plan. it's unclear whether it's going to be activated. >> all right, nick paton walsh, incredible story reporting out of iraq. the crackdown continues in turkey. 13 journalists arrested this morning accused of helping enemies of the state. one of them was the editor in chief of an opposition newspaper. the turkish government says the journalist helped legitimize this summer's failed coup. the arrests came after a weekend of some more than 10,000 public service fired and more than a dozen media companies shut down. still to come in the "newsroom," florida might be the sunshine state but there's nothing bright about what's on the airwaves. just doom and gloom and negativity of this 2016 race. and voters, well, they're ready for it to end. ffshore teams 24/7 support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells every day. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. 2016 election could all come down to florida. donald trump and hillary clinton are focussing a lot of their attention there. the latest two polls in florida show how close the race is. trump with a four-point lead and nbc/wall street journal poll gives clinton a one-point edge. the closer it is, the uglier it can be. and florida, it is about as closed to ugly as a election can get. there's no relief for at least another week of election ads. good morning. >> reporter: hey, good morning, carroll. it is as ugly as it gets. voters can't wait for this election to be over and large part because of these political ads. and it's not just the presidential campaign, but candidates spending a crazy amount of money here in the sunshine states. it's also hotly contested senate race and house races, and then local government races as well. so they've been bombarded and now they're looking for ways to tune out. they are unavoidable. whether in your home, your car, your cell phone, or even a night out on the town. the near constant stream of political ads on tv has some families in central florida counting down the minutes until november 9th. >> every newscast, every football game, you'll have a hillary ad followed by a trump ad. you know, potentially rebutting what was said before and vice versa. i sent my vote in about a week or so ago. i just wanted to get it over with. >> i have three children and the way this influences them and the whole democratic process, it's not a good example for them and for our country looking forward and for them when they become young adults. >> reporter: a short while in the orlando home of james baker and jennifer cordery and you're inundated. >> children and families, a man who spent his life -- >> morgan freeman. >> reporter: both parties spent nearly $100 million on presidential campaign ads in the sunshine state. most of that here along the i-4 corridor. in fact, no other tv market in the country has seen more spending than orlando with $25 million on pro-clinton ads and 7.7 million for trump. >> definitely makes you just tune out. you definitely start to tune out to all the messages because they're conflicting, they're negative, and you don't to want pay attention anymore. >> reporter: jennifer and james worry that so much negativity and so much mud-slinging will shape their kids. >> it's okay to argue, debate, but when you get starting in with the personal attacks, the focus should be more on what the are solutions, the policy aspects of it, not, you know, i'm calling you this name or this person's calling someone else a different name. virtually no ads during team tooin. >> no, no ads on cartoon network. >> reporter: while they've found an animated way to dodge the ads and political e rhetoric, others have turned to america's favorite past time. >> i'd rather watch the kubs play all night long than i would listen to anymore political crap. >> reporter: how does it feel to see so many examine. >> i think this year is probably undoubtedly the worst. >> reporter: it's still about a week before the election. but for the floridians who've been packing into the friendly confin confines, a chicago-themed bar on the outskirts of orlando, the only victory they've cared about has nothing to do with either hillary clinton or donald trump. what's a bigger story, the world series? >> world series. >> reporter: not the election? >> the world series. >> reporter: doesn't matter. >> nothing else matters. >> reporter: totally tune them out? >> no, i don't think you can. because they're everywhere. >> reporter: they are everywhere, carroll. the good news is at least for fans, the world size is going on one more night. potentially another night, potential game seven on wednesday. the bad news is that after that, it's back to regularly scheduled programming. >> i don't mean to laugh, but i'm sure many americans feel the same way even if they're not like -- if they don't see ads, you know, bombarding their tv sets. horace sanchez, thanks so much. rigged elections, voter intimidation, trump supporters are sounding the alarm before any votes are cast. i went to philadelphia, a city singled out by trump. is there a real concern about voter fraud in philly? the next hour of "cnn newsroom" after a break. gilman: go get it. go get it. ...coach gilman used his cash rewards credit card from bank of america to earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. at places like the batting cages. ♪ [ crowd cheers ] 2% back at grocery stores and now at wholesale clubs. and 3% back on gas. which helped him give his players something extra. the cash rewards credit card from bank of america. more cash back for the things you buy most. the cash rewards credit card from bank of america. you tell your inthey made a mistake. the check they sent isn't enough to replace your totaled new car. the guy says they didn't make the mistake. you made the mistake. i beg your pardon? he says, you should have chosen full-car replacement. excuse me? let me be frank, he says. you picked the wrong insurance plan. no. i picked the wrong insurance company. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. call and if you have more than one liberty mutual policy, you qualify for a multi-policy discount, saving you money on your car and home coverage. call liberty mutual for a free quote today. at that's liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. want a great way to help our children thrive? then be sure to vote yes on proposition 55. prop 55 doesn't raise taxes on anyone. instead, it simply maintains the current tax rate on the wealthiest californians to prevent education cuts that would hurt our kids. no wonder prop 55 is endorsed by the california pta, teachers and educators. because all of us want to help our children thrive. it's time to vote yes on proposition 55. and good morning, i'm carol cost tell low, thank you for joining me, unprecedented move in major backlash stinging criticism for fbi director james comey after he announces the lags begin a new review of e-mails from one of hillary clinton's top aids huma abedin. the justice department obtaining a warrant to search those e-mails which were found on a computer belonging to abedin's husband, anthony wiener. wiener as you know was the subject of a separate federal probe and while the e-mails were

Transcripts For CNNW New Day 20171017

million subscribers last qua quarter. shares up about 64% this year. scary story. wi-fi network flaw could let hackers spy on every device on earth. researchers discovered a huge vulnerable. when connecting to wi-fi and attacker can trick the device to connecting to their wi-fi access point, once linked, they can potentially steal personal data. google android, microsoft windows. another silver lining, there are no reports of this flaw just yet. some companies have already issued patches. thanks for joining us. ed president trying to satisfy all sides. now senatorer john mccain says those promoting half baked national views are unpatriotic. see you tomorrow. >> my relationship with this gentlemen is outstanding. we've cut your oxygen off, mitch. it's a season of war against a gop establishment. >> i can understand fully how steve bannon feels. >> donald trump is playing mitch mcconnell and steve bannon against each other perfectly. >> to abandon our duty to the stake of some half baked spurious nationalism is unpatriotic. >> if you look at other presidents, most of them didn't make calls. >> why does he make stuff up all the time? >> most people said we've done an outstanding job but puerto rico is tough. >> our president doesn't have the commitment to the puerto rican people. >> this is "new day" with chris kpoem mow and alison camerota. >> this is new day, tuesday, october 17. former republican nominee, senator john mccain taking a clear shot at president trump without ever saying his name. mccain warns the u.s. against turning towards quote half baked spurious nationalism, and calls america's repeat on the world stage unpatriotic. this comes as president trump is under fire for falsely claiming that his predecessor predecessors didn't call gold star families. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is closer than ever before. all this as a new cnn poll shows president trump's approval rating holding steady. more americans say he is leading the country in the wrong direction. the president's approval rating on recent hurricanes dropped 20 points after hurricane maria destroyed puerto rico. the humanitarian crisis there is deepening a month after the storm. we have it all covered. let begin with cnn's joe johns live at the white house. joe, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, chris. the president spent monday straddli straddling, time-outing his relationship with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell while at the same time trying to keep the peace with the steve bannon wing. >> we're probably now, i think, at least as far as i'm concerned, closer than ever before. we're fighting for the same thing. >> reporter: president trump attempting to put up a united front with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, despite lobbying this criticism moments before at the senate that mcconnell leads. i'm not going to blame myself. they are not getting the job done. >> reporter: the anti-establishment wing of the party spearheaded by his former chief strategist steve bannon. >> this is not my war. this is our war. mitch, the donors are not happy. they've all left you. we've cut your objectixygen off mitch. >> reporter: mr. trump backing bannon's anti-establishment attacks during a cabinet meeting monday morning. >> steve is very committed. he is a friend of mine. we had a few people who disappointed us, really, really disappointed us. i understand fully how steve bannon feels. steve is doing what steve thinks is the right thing. some of the people he may be looking at, i'm going to see if we talk him out of that. because, frankly, they're great people. >> reporter: senator john mccain making a compassionate plea while accepting the liberty medal. >> to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of earth for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that americans consigned to. i've written them personal letters. they've been sent or they're going out tonight. >> reporter: the president immediately growing defensive, making this false claim about his predecessors. >> if you look at president obama and other presidents, most of them didn't make calls. >> reporter: former white house photographer pete souza responding with this image, showing president obama comforting a gold star family as multiple aides to the former president recall specific times obama consoled the families of fallen soldiers. obama's former deputy chief of staff lashing out at mr. trump on twitter. mr. trump also boasting about his administration's response to hurricane-ravaged puerto rico again, placing blame on local officials. >> it was in really bad shape before. we have done -- i will say this. we have done -- >> people don't have drinking water. >> we've delivered tremendous amounts of water. then what you have to do, you have to have distribution of water by people on the island. >> reporter: new cnn poll shows the president's approval rating in response to recent hurricanes has dropped 20 points since september as the majority of the island remains in the dark, one month after the storm. for the second day in a row, the president is expected to take questions from reporters today. this time during a news conference with the greek prime minister. and this evening, the president is expected to address a highly influential conservative group here in washington, the heritage foundation. very likely tax reform as well as health care will be on the agenda. alisyn, back to you. >> joe, thank you for that reporting. the new cnn poll finds president trump's approval rating is holding steady but more americans say he's leading the nation in the wrong direction. joining us from washington to help us break down all the numbers, david. >> donald trump's approval rating is at 37%, 57% disapprove. he has been hanging out in the 37 to 40% range the past four months or so. how does it stack up in history? take a look at where predecessors were. he was way down at the bottom. bill clinton next closest and that's ten points higher. so, not stacking up well against his predecessors. we also asked how things are going in the country today. we see a drop here. in august, 53% of americans said things are going well in the country. now it's down to 46%, alisyn. that's where we were in february after the first chaotic weeks of the trump administration. battles with mcconnell, trump's relationship with congressional republicans. 32% of americans approve the way he handles his relations with congressional republicans. 54% disapprove. 68% of republicans approve of his relationship with congressional republicans only 22% approve. 30% of americans overall say they trust president trump to handle major issues. 47% trust these guys, mitch mcconnell and paul ryan more. among republicans, president trump has the advantage on this issue of trust to handle most issues. if you go to the next screen, you'll see that republicans overwhelmingly, 63%, trust trump over the 29% who trust the republicans in congress. it's this advantage that he is pressing against mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. by the way, that steve bannon is pressing as well. alisyn, chris? >> david, thank you very much. stay with us. that panel is the only one that the president agrees with in this poll. yesterday, he had a tour de force of selling the american people and the media on what he has done and why he is doing very well at this point. in fact, ahead of schedule, he says. let's bring in cnn political analyst david gregory to join david chalian. what did you make of what we all saw yesterday? >> i'm fixated on david's numbers there, especially how the broader gop views the president in terms of confidence in his leadership or on the majority of the issues. that is the point that he is the republican party and yet look what he's doing with mitch mcconnell yesterday. he's basically putting him outside himself, putting himself outside of the party saying, yeah, i'm disappointed in what the republicans have done in washington but i'm not going to blame myself. what a shocking thing for donald trump to say. i'm not going to blame myself. he said they haven't gotten it done. he's playing this outsider game even though he's the president, even though he's the leader of the party to say, look, i'm still a grassroots political leader. >> that's what works for him, david. doesn't it? >> that's the bottom line. that's still what works for him. that's what keeps his base together. even when he's getting hammered for his response in puerto rico, he still plays this outsider game, knowing that he is responsible as the head of the federal government for that kind of response. >> i totally -- i'm sorry, alisyn. >> i was just going to pull up those numbers for the hurricane response one more time. only 44% approve of how he's handling the hurricane response, 47% disapprove. >> but he puts that on us and on puerto rico's government. we're giving fake reports that don't give enough respect to the success and the puerto ricans can't get their own business in order. >> our reporters are on the ground, showing us what the real situation is. >> our reporting standards in the way we cover hurricanes didn't change between harvey, irma and maria. 64% approving of how he handled harvey and irma. it was helping sort of boost him a little bit. we've never seen that kind of support for him on any given specific issue. now it's down to 44% because of what people have seen in puerto rico. >> there's no question about it. anybody who goes there will tell you, if they're in this business and have any experience, that it is the worst american natural disaster that they've ever seen. i've never seen that kind of need among americans in the time i've been in this business. his desire to say he's a success over recognizing that reality has to be what's driving that imbalance between how he was in the first couple of storms and this one. let's talk about last night. senator john mccain came out, david gregory. look, he's battling cancer and he is speaking his mind. >> right. >> let's just remind people about the message that john mccain is trying to send. listen to this. >> the fear of the world we have organized and led three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of earth for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems -- >> what do you hear there, david gregory? >> the voice of institutional memory in the senate, a voice of history in our country, a voice that is now completely unafraid of standing outside of the populism of donald trump and essentially saying shame on you. and he's joining other republicans who are doing the same. but that doesn't necessarily change the calculation of steve bannon, of this grassroots work. the president has signed on to say the gop establishment is still letting you down, is still not getting anything accomplished, is not doing its job. even mccain's good friend, lindsey graham, said over the weekend, yeah, i understand where trump and bannon are coming from, because we're not doing our jobs on issues like tax cuts or particularly health care. we're not making good on these promises. so, mccain's comments will be championed by many critics of the president, including a lot of democrats who otherwise wouldn't be with him on a lot of these issues because he's starting to align himself more strongly against the president. >> david chalian, he used a great word. spurious. right? it suggests that it's half-baked. it's not what it appears to be. it comes from being a way of describing of illegitimate birth. does it matter to the republicans that this form of populism isn't legitimate, according to senator mccain? is it being artificial? is that something that might work in terms of galvanizing the party and calling out the bannon factor? >> it matters to some republicans of the john mccain is one, obviously. but it doesn't -- i don't think that it's going to be a rallying cry to all of a sudden overturn the dynamic that has been ten years in the making inside the modern republican party. i do think, though, that what you see with john mccain, add this speech to the speech he gave last night to the speech he gave on the senate floor when he returned from his diagnosis, where he voted against the plan to repeal and replace obamacare. he is trying with all of his might to sort of turn the tide here, both institutionally in the senate, how things get done in washington and with trump's sort of global philosophy and vision for america's role in the world. he's trying with his words with anything he can galvanize to try to steer back something he seems to think is off course. >> quickly, david -- go ahead. >> i think it's also striking to watch. president trump aligns himself with the bannon and anti-establishment folks. if he were to get a big bipartisan deal on health care, he would love it. if he were able to accomplish things and be able to put his name on the top of a victory, i think he would very quickly align himself with the establishment if it started working and if he could say, like on tax reform, we got this done because of my leadership. i think you would see that start to change. >> we need to get to what president trump claimed in this press conference yesterday, speaking of spurious. he claimed that other presidents didn't call the families of fallen soldiers and then he tried to walk it back when people were saying, yes, they d here is what he originally said and then some of the cleanup effort. listen to this. >> i will, at some point during the period of time call the parents and the families, because i have done that traditionally. the traditional way, if you look at president obama and other presidents, most of them didn't make calls. a lot of them didn't make calls. >> earlier, you said that president obama never called the families of fallen soldiers. how can you make that claim? >> no, no, i was told he didn't often. a lot of president's don't. president obama, i think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn't. i don't know. that's what i was told. all i can do is ask my generals. >> look, this is example number -- fill in the blank of what number you want of just a fake claim. he shot it out there. it's demonstrably false and then put it out there with unnamed sources, which he hates. >> former obama administration officials, including eric holder. he put out on twitter stop the damn lying. you're the president. i went to dover air force base with 44, meaning obama, and saw him comfort both the fallen of both the fallen military and dea. and then that's an f'ing lie to say president obama or past presidents didn't call the family members of soldiers. he's a deranged animal. >> i don't know why he doesn't tell the truth all the time but he doesn't. he makes claims usually based on him feeling attacked somehow, feeling defensive and lashes out without the facts. if you were listening to him it almost sounded as if what he meant to say was that the way you offer condolences takes different forms and that the protocol over the years versus calling as opposed to writing a letter, maybe certain circumstances called for certain responses. that's what i thought he might be driving at. but, of course, what he then says is a kind of blast, a gut blast to say, well, you know, nobody in the past really called to offer condolences, which is simply not true. yet again, he creates a controversy because he's offensive in what he's saying. offensive to the office and his predecessors that gets in the way of what he's trying -- >> right. >> you have to be careful, david, both davids and us, not to let it work. it's a fog of distraction and bs that gets us away from the main premise. why didn't he say anything about this for two weeks? why did these service members lose their lives? what was this about? where is the curiosity from the administration? where is the story of these four men and what happened to them? that's the question, david chalian. >> exactly, chris. >> he can cover it in a lie and cast blame on other people, will get people who hate obama involved in it and will focus on that. we still don't know the answers to the main questions. >> the lie is important to call out. we've done it. it was a lie. it was totally wrong. my question when i watched that is why is this a moment for him to start trying to compare himself to his predecessors? there are four dead american service members. he is the commander in chief. there must be something else he wants to say here other than try to compare himself to how others in this job handled this kind of moment. it just seemed entirely the wrong moment, to me, for him to try to stack himself up to his predecessor. >> unless he either doesn't know what happened in niger, which shows a fundamental lack of curiosity, or he doesn't want to go there. in either case, throwing some stink on obama and other people will work. that will become the headline, unless you stay on the main line questions. we need to know what happened to these men and we don't. >> it's just like puerto rico. why would you as a leader of a country say we deserve an a plus on what we're doing, when people are suffering? your job is to help and protect the people you govern. when people are hurting in such an obvious way your job is to say we're doing everything we can, but we're not done until these major problems are solved. so that's what we're thinking about every day. whatever they need we're going to get on it. if there are long-term problems we'll deal with those over the long term. right now we're taking care of people. you can't understand why he would have any other response except making it about him. and, of course, that is his whole career and certainly his career as president so far. >> david gregory, david chalian, stick around. we have more questions for you, free wheeling impromptu rose garden press conference, including his comments about robert mueller and the special investigation. did the president consider firing the special prosecutor? 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"the washington post" did it in conjunction with "60 minutes." the headline is this, david gregory. this is what big pharma does. it started with the proliferation and over prescribing of pain meds. we haven't seen that before. crack, meth, coke. all those different drugs, they came up through the streets. this did not. this came top down. this law was just vintage big pharma. they worked. they lobbied $100 million. they got lawmakers, the dea, the doj. they got everybody on the same page, including the white house, president obama who signed this law, that changed the standard from imminent threat to immediate danger. and that sounds like lawyer talk, and it is. but it changed the ability of the u.s. government to stop bulk deliveries of drugs. the guy who is going to be the drug czar, if the president has his way, was the champion of this law. how do you pick someone to fight something that, in large part, is because of this kind of practice to head the effort to stop the practice? >> you heard president trump say he may not in the end. >> how would he not know? i saw the report. we're going to have to look at it. how would you not know what this guy's history is? >> it's the right question. it undercuts a major area of public policy that president trump could own. he could advance this area and make a difference on that is good politics but could be important policy for the country. he was transparent for that, not accounting for how he wouldn't know, but saying if this is true, depending on how their vetting breaks down, they may look another way. the president has an opportunity to marshall resources around and own politically and from a policy perspective if he digs in. >> full disclosure, we have a documentary on it this friday night. i'm not new to this discussion. we were with the firefighters that trump put his arm around during the campaign and said i will be there for you. they are dealing with something i've never seen before. the concentration of drugs they're fighting. they haven't gotten any help yet. they're still waiting. friday night you'll see the full story. >> meanwhile, one of president trump's favorite boogie man or boogie women came up, hillary clinton. he once again spoke about her and talked about his dream for her political future. >> i hope hillary runs. is she going to run? i hope. hillary, please run again. go ahead. >> whether or not this is disrespecting the flag. is she right or wrong? >> i think she's wrong. there's plenty of times to do knees and lots of other things. when you take the knee -- that's why she lost the election. >> time to do knees. >> i don't even know what that means. david chalian, hillary clinton just gave an interview to the bbc. she's not running again. news flash. >> i thought that was a moment of real candor to president trump. he seemed to fully acknowledge that part of his victory was the weaknesses of the person he was running against. that's why he was so honestly begging for her to run again. he may have had a different outcome against another opponent. normally he time-oouts it all fs success and the great campaign he had with the american people out there. it seemed to be a moment that he understood that part of the reason he was standing there is because of hillary clinton's weaknesses. >> he knows it. d. gregory, final word. >> still whirling around and don't know what direction to go. we'll see in 2020 probably, w t what, 16, 17 democrats running against a singular donald trump as president of the united states. that may give him a real big advantage and i think that's one of the reasons he's stoking all of this. democrats have not figured out -- and it is early for them to figure out how they go about denying him a second term. >> you saw with the gop last time. when you have a lot of people you often have no one. gentlemen, thank you very much. so tomorrow night we'll have a big debate between senators bernie sanders and ted cruz on the republican tax plan. 9:00 p.m. eastern only on cnn. >> all right. firefighters are slowly gaining the upper hand in california. but the wildfires are still burning and the death toll keeps rising. the latest, next. coming on? only abreva can heal it in as little as two and a half days when used at the first sign. abreva starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells. abreva acts on it. so you can too. throughout history, the one meal when we come together, break bread, share our day and connect as a family. 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[ bloop ] huh? hey? i paused it. bam, family time. so how is everyone? find your awesome with xfinity xfi and change the way you wifi. some headlines for you now. the state department urging both sides to avoid further violence. the u.s. is in a precarious position, having supplied the iraqi government with weapons to fight isis while also arming the kurds. senator john mccain warns the iraqi government of, quote, severe consequences if it uses u.s. supplied weapons against the kurdish fighters. north korea warning a u.n. committee that a nuclear war, quote, may break out any moment. pyongyang rejecting diplomacy with the u.s. until it finishes developing the intercontinental ballistic missile which would be capable, they say, of reaching the west coast of the u.s. joint drills are expected to last another nine days. firefighter battling flames in northern california was killed when the water truck he was driving overturned on the highway. still they are making progress with the fires in that area. residents finally being allowed to turn to their homes. health officials warn that the debris from the fires could be toxic. more than 5700 structures have burned since last week. president trump under fire for falsely claiming that president obama failed to reach out to families for fallen u.s. soldiers. it's just a false claim. but how is this playing out at the pentagon and in the military? remember, this isn't about presidents. this is about four service members who were killed in niger. we still don't know why. latest, ahead. where are we? about to see progressive's new home quote explorer. where you can compare multiple quote options online and choose what's right for you. woah. flo and jamie here to see hqx. flo and jamie request entry. slovakia. triceratops. tapioca. racquetball. staccato. me llamo jamie. pumpernickel. pudding. employee: hey, guys! home quote explorer. it's home insurance made easy. password was "hey guys." it's home insurance made easy. looking for a hotel that fits... whoooo. ...your budget? tripadvisor now searches over... ...200 sites to find you the... ...hotel you want at the lowest price. grazi, gino! find a price that fits. tripadvisor. when we love someone, we want to do right by them. what is this? 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(loud snoring) now the answer is right under your nose. introducing theravent anti-snore strips, clinically shown to reduce snoring with the power of your own breathing. nice try! there are always things that are hard to let go of. now snoring isn't one of them. theravent. the answer is right under your nose. president trump facing backlash this morning, and rightly so. he falsely claimed that his predecessors never called grieving military familyies, tht they didn't reach out. he made the remark while responding to a question about why he has remained silent for 12 days after an ambush in niger of four u.s. soldiers. here is some of the sound. >> i will, at some point, during the period of time call the parents and the families. because i have done that traditionally. the traditional way, if you look at president obama and other presidents, most of them didn't make calls. a lot of them didn't make calls. >> earlier you said that president obama never called the families of fallen soldiers. how can you make that claim? >> i don't know if he did. no, no. i was told he didn't often and a lot of presidents don't. president obama, i think, probably did some sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn't. i don't know. that's what i was told. all i can do is ask my generals. >> you will see this story dominated by the discussion you just heard there. obama versus trump and who's better. not today. not here. because we don't know anything about what happened in niger yet and there are four u.s. service members who are gone and that's what members -- what matters. we'll deal with both of them. general mark hertling and barbara starr. for those in the audience not 100% familiar with you, as a commander you take the loss of men and women under your command very seriously. you literally keep close to yourself a box of their tags and remembrances of who they are, because they lived with you every day because of that command. we understand that respect. what bothered you about what the president said yesterday? >> a couple of things, chris. you pointed it out on several occasions already this morning. first of all, the president lied and then he attempted to blame the generals for telling him what he lied about. and then the most important thing is he was making excuses for not having made contact after 12 days. all three of those things are not a good look for a commander in chief. you asked me to be your military analyst. this is the simplest thing i've analyzed yet. it was not a good thing for a commander, which the president is, to do the kinds of things he did yesterday. i would put it in a shameful category, to be honest with you. my colleagues and peers, both retired and active, felt the same way. >> i'm right about this. it will work. everybody will talk today about what he said about obama and who was more sensitive. it is a distraction. barbara, what is the pentagon saying about what happened to these men in niger? >> 12, 13 days later, they don't know. that is a big problem. there is an investigation under way to find out how this firefight erupted. was there bad intelligence? was this a failed mission? but it comes right back, chris, to what you were saying about the families of the fallen. i want you to take a look at the picture on your far right there. sergeant la david johnson, 25 years old. his body was left out for 48 hours before anybody could go back and get it. how does a man get left behind? this is the big question that the military has to answer now. the president talked about it being tough on him. well, you know, it is tough on the families. sergeant la david johnson, 25 years old. leaves behind a young widow, two children acres third on the way. this young man, we now know he worked at walmart at the produce counter, before he found the u.s. army and found his career and his way ahead in the u.s. army. he rode his bicycle to work every day at the produce counter at walmart. what is tough, tough on the president, it is now very tough on this young widow, trying to raise three children and all the families of the fallen. >> i take your point, barbara. there's a misplaced personalizing of it on behalf of the president. the focus of it should be on the fallen. you're right to tell their stories. from a military perspective, what do we need to know about the situation and what does the silence mean to you, general? >> chris, i don't want to compare. when i wrote letters to family members what i would just say is console them on their loss, tell them how their soldier contributed to the defense of the nation. you don't have to get into the details. what barbara said is really emotional. because that's the kind of stories each one of these kids have, these young men and women who are less than 1% of their country. they dedicate their life in the cloth of the country. it is important to be consoler in chief as well as commander in chief. every commander up the chain of command writes these letters and it's important for the president to be one of them. 12 days later that's too long. it's just unfortunate. >> to get to what you were both talking about, let's play what the president said and how he put the pain in this situation. >> it's the toughest calls i have to make are the calls where this happens, soldiers are killed. it's a very difficult thing. now it gets to a point where, you know, you make four or five of them in one day, it's a very, very tough day. for me, that's, by far, the toughest. >> barbara, your response? >> it's supposed to be tough. you send troops into combat as the commander in chief, it is supposed to be tough. we talked about it not being about the president. it's about the families. it is for the u.s. military now something very significant. they have to investigate this incident. they need to find out were 12 men sent into combat with poor intelligence? how did the 12 walk into an ambush by 50 isis fighters, be in a firefight for some 30 minutes only with their rifles while the isis fighters had rocket-propelled grenades and machine guns. how did one man get left behind? these are the questions, the answers that the military needs to find out and the families need to know. >> that's the best way to respect the loss. tell the stories of their service and find out and account for how their lives were lost. as we learn more information, general, we'll have you back and get your take on what we understand, what needs to change. thank you to both of you very much. alisyn? >> chris, to puerto rico now. the president praised the federal response in puerto rico. so we have a reality check on how the people on the island are doing nearly one month after hurricane maria. we are there, next. ssion to show drip coffee drinkers, it's time to wake up to keurig. wakey! wakey! rise and shine! oh my gosh! how are you? 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(all) yes. my ci can worry about it,ine. or do something about it. garlique® helps maintain healthy cholesterol naturally. and it's odor free. and pharmacist recommended. garlique.® after harvey, after maria, you saw the president's approval ratings spike. after hurricane maria in puerto rico, they've dropped. desperation is growing on the island. we're going to go back to the area that the president visited where he unforgettably was shooting jump shots with paper towels at storm victims. cnn's bill weir is live in san juan. thanks for going back, my friend. >> reporter: my pleasure. we have to keep tabs on the folks down here. need hasn't changed much since we were both down here. we went up to look for a veteran, miguel, who was running out of insulin, when our first report hit air about a month ago. couldn't get there because torrential rains had made a bad situation already worse. here is a little sample of the day in the life of puerto rico. aside from one cluster of power line contractors working in the rain it's hard to see any signs of improvement in the highlands just outside of san juan. the roads, still littered with maria's debris, are all the more treacherous in the steady tropical downpour as weeks worth of clean-up work can be undone in minutes. this literally just happened. within the last hour, a wall of fallen trees and pipes and cars came rushing down the hillside. and that mudslide made life all the more difficult for the people here because it took out this bridge. this bridge had been certified as safe recently. they had cleared this road. now the families on that side are completely cut off. they either have to hike over the mountain in this kind of weather, or forge this raging river. everything i've been struggling for all my life all of a sudden is gone, this man tells me. he restores corvettes for a living. now his parts trailer is tossed. a few of his cars totaled by that wall of muddy water. he and his wife have been surviving in a house without power, burning their savings on generator fuel to keep her insulin from spoiling. life was stressful enough but then their trickle of a creek brought the highest water they had ever seen. my son was picking up the most important things as the water was coming up, just in case we needed to leave, he says. really? that must have been terrifying. this is the blue collar section of upscale municipality where president trump tossed those paper towels. as mayor angel perez stood by. how would you describe the response of fema? >> it's been slowly but it's there. you know, they have given us water, food, tarps. now they have changed a little. they're going to assign a couple of persons directly to each municipality. i think that's the right direction. so the help is coming. >> reporter: with over 1,000 homes in his town damaged he said the biggest needs are tarps for shelter and drinking water. those plumes of fuel pouring into the creek a reminder of the health hazards of drinking off the land. and he expresses hopes the army corps of engineers can somehow replace his bridges. now you are brand new in this job. >> 40 days. >> 40 days. what a baptism by fire. i know you were appointed by the governor after a scandal with the previous mayor. tell me about the politics. do you wish you could scream and beg for more help from the federal government or do you have to be careful about how and -- how you ask? >> no. we want more help. and i know my experience is that fema has given us a lot of help. we want more. we need more help. i have meetings with other mayors, i see the desperation. >> reporter: off camera, she tells the mayor i voted for your party and you forgot about us. we need water. have you seen fema? have you seen any aid from the federal government? they haven't brought food or water here? no. no. >> reporter: he wants to blame the locals for not distributing their own aid. >> bill, as you know, there are serious infrastructure problems there, physical and human capital as well. but the crisis is real. the need is great. as you just told us, it's not getting better fast enough. thank you for the reporting to bill weir and his team. we'll take a break. when we come back, john mccain gets a big award and uses it as an opportunity to take aim at trump's world view. what did he call half-baked and spurious? we have more on that and the president lying about past presidents and their respect for our troops. what he said and why would he ever say anything like that? next. ulting... hi, guys. i'm back. time to slay! no,i have a long time girlfriend. you know what's easy? building your website with godaddy. get your domain today and get a free trial of gocentral. build a better website in under an hour. i have great relationships with most republican senators but we're not getting the job done. >> that's really not real. all the warmth of an arranged marriage. >> whether they like it or not they need each other to get things done. >> we live in a land made of ideals, not blood and soil. we will not live in a world where our ideals are absent. >> greater threat to the united states than barack obama's. >> other presidents did not call. and some presidents didn't do anything. >> when he gets backed into a corner h

Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20190208

the kremlin is of special significance to robert mueller's team. and president trump's former lawyer, michael cohen, is headed to prison next month. what we're learning the investigation into his campaign finance crimes is still ongoing. there's lots to talk about. we're going to begin our coverage with mr. shimon prokupecz who is up on all things russia and this investigation. shimon, thank you for joining us. this post from jeff bezos, wow. unbelievable. what are you learning about this allegations against the "national enquirer"? >> pretty substantial here, don, really, you know, it was extraordinary in the way jeff bezos did this putting this all out there for everyone to see certainly admitting this was going to be embarrassing for him but he needed to do it because he says what the "national enquirer" and executives were trying to do was blackmail him, extort and essentially it was to try to prevent the "washington post" from working on a story, an investigation, into the "national enquirer," they've been working on an investigation. a couple of things these e-mails indicate and what bezos' released from the "national enquirer" is i guess the "washington post" was going to say some of these stories that the "national enquirer" has been working on were political motivated, influenced by political views and decisions and it seems that ami was trying to get the "washington post" from not publishing some of this. from not saying that any of these stories were politically motivated and they tried to use nude photos that they somehow have obtained of jeff bezos and other photos of a relationship he had with a woman. they were trying to use these photos to what jeff bezos says blackmail him, try to prevent from any of this story from getting out and try to skew it somehow in their favor. >> interesting. i wonder if they want to poke the bear with this one considering how wealthy bezos is. he's coming out really strong. why is he saying -- why is bezos saying he thinks it has something to do with ami, trump and the saudis? again, hard ball he's playing, too, right? >> yeah, and he's hired top investigators to do this. there are several investigations that are ongoing, bezos says. what's interesting, obviously, that pecker's connection to the president, longtime friend, they may be friends. they may be on the outs a little bit, but, you know, he's protected the president for many, many years. he was involved in some of the catch and kill stories. he was involved in the hush payments to women who accused the president of having an affair with the president, the president then paid. so he's been around a very long time. certainly, in the president's circle. so there is that, perhaps, maybe somehow these stories are being done to try and hurt jeff bezos because of how critical the "washington post," obviously, has been, of the administration and some of the stories that they're been running. but there's this entire other connection, perhaps, that people have been looking into, and bezos says the "washington post" has been looking into it, and that's the saudis. at one point, bezos writes that, in particular, the david pecker/ami, that pecker was apoplectic about their investigation, the "washington post's" investigations, for reasons still to be better understood, but there was a saudi angle that seemed to have hit a particular sensitive nerve of bezos writes. and of course, one of those reasons could be that the murder of jamal khashoggi, of course, and his relationship with the "washington post." so there's still a lot here that needs to be developed, but these are things that according to bezos the "washington post" was working on and it appears that david pecker was concerned. >> interesting. also some new details tonight about the closed-door court hearing between the special counsel's office and paul manafort. what is mueller focusing on? >> yeah, so this was interesting. this was a sealed hearing on monday. today, we got ahold of the transcripts. some of it was redacted as we usually see in these hearings. what we did learn is the special counsel's office was very interested, they called it at this hearing, the heart of their investigation, a meeting between paul manafort around august 2nd of 2016 and a russian operative, a name by the name of konstantin kilimnik. this is the man that paul manafort shared internal trump polling data with. there was a lot of concern and lot of talk that they've been trying to figure out exactly what was going on between this relationship between paul manafort and this russian operative, and they say that is part of the -- what is the heart of the mueller investigation. >> we're also learning that prosecutors are still investigating michael cohen's campaign finance violations. what does that mean for president trump? >> well, it could be problematic, certainly for his organization. the trump organization. we know that people have been into the southern district of new york, prosecutors in new york, regarding this investigation. that investigation, we learned, in a court filing today, is also still ongoing. there are aspects of the michael cohen investigation that are over, but this particular aspect of the investigation, it appears based on those court documents, that that is still ongoing. we had thought maybe prosecutors had come to some kind of an ending there after implicating the president in the hush money payment, but that investigation, according to this court filing, is still very much ongoing. that means that people in the trump organization can still be prosecuted if they find that they committed crimes. >> shimon, thank you. appreciate your time. i want to bring in now "national enquirer's "former l.a. bureau chief, jerry george. mr. george, i'm so happy that you're here. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me, don. >> absolutely. let's talk about the bezos thing, accusing the "enquirer" and david pecker of extortion and blackmail. is this how the "enquirer" does business? >> well, you know, if you'll excuse the vernacular, for years, david -- donald trump has had a hard-on for bezos. you know, professional jealousy. the acquisition of amazon. "the new york times." he's taken shots at every chance he got. so it's no surprise that he turned to his good buddy, david pecker, at the "enquirer," you know, to do a hatchet job on him. the surprising thing, i think, is, though, that the "enquirer" would do such a story and play it up so big for, you know, for a name that while everyone in the world knows, you know, bezos, "enquirer" readers aren't that familiar with him. it's not like he's george clooney. >> uh-huh. >> so it just doesn't smell right, and for ami to have almost squeaked by this investigation unscathed and then to go back in to face more potential charges, is baffling. >> yeah. so, listen, this was a bold move by bezos. do you think david pecker and his attorneys, do you think they're surprised, you think they're worried? >> i -- i think that they're -- i think -- i think that they thought they were smarter than they are, and i think now the reality is hitting them and they're freaking out. >> really? go on. do you think -- could bezos end up owning the whole thing? suing them? >> it -- i think it's possible. i mean, the techniques they used are nothing short of extortion. it is -- it is -- it is the rico act. i mean, they've -- this looks like a crime. >> why would -- there are other aspects i want to get -- why would someone who constantly calls out the alleged misdeeds of others, even often wrongly calls them out when many people think it's just projection, and i'm speaking of donald trump, why would he be associated with someone like david pecker who, in your estimation, says uses -- uses, you know, actions that are akin to extortion and the rico act. >> because i think he finds it irresistible. i think he feels he's above the law and he'll use every tool that he has to achieve his goals. >> let's talk about this saudi connection here. bezos says that pecker was bothered by his investigation into ami's ties with the saudis. earlier in the evening, you mentioned how ami put out this glossy tourism special then the "enquirer" made a big acquisition. do you think saudis are funding ami? >> i certainly think it's within the realm. if you stand back and look at it, for them to put out a glossy magazine that was distributed at walmart and it was -- it was just a valentine to saudi saudi arabia, completely out of left field, and then three months later, they came in to a good sum of money to buy up their competitors. it just doesn't make sense. >> what do you think ami is going to do now? you said you think they're worried. right? what do you think they'll do now? >> i think there will be acts of contrition and i think they will legal up and promise never to make those mistakes again, but they are an unpredictable bunch. >> jerry george, i appreciate your candor. thank you very much for coming on. >> my pleasure. >> absolutely. so is the "national enquirer" still doing the president's dirty work for him? we're going to dig into that, next. 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money. >> the saudis. >> it's got saudis. renato, bezos says this is blackmail and extortion. is he right? does he have a case? >> well, he's right in our common understanding of those terms. i think it's possible that he could certainly -- he could see the "national enquirer" and ami and get some money out of them. obviously, he has very deep pockets of his own. but i don't think a prosecutor would actually be able to bring this as an extortion case. you know, typical extortion case is where you say, look, i'm going to publish these dick pics and other embarrassing photos if you don't pay me money. here this is the "enquirer's" lawyers trying to settle legal claims between them and bezos and they're throwing this into the settlement. it's much more complicated. there's a bunch of legal issues. it's really awful, but i don't think it's something that a prosecutor would bring. >> i have said and heard things on television tonight that i never in a million years thought. okay. so, ryan, we know how close president trump is with ami. we know how he despises jeff bezos. is ami still doing trump's dirty work? what is going on here? >> i don't know. i mean, the two leading theories seem to be that ami is either doing the saudis' dirty work, president trump's dirty work, or a combination of the two. we know that trump hates bezos. we know he attacks him frequently on twitter. he hates a lot of reporting at the "washington post." we also know that the saudis are not very happy with the "washington post" because, frankly, the saudis killed one of their opinion columnists and they have been incredibly aggressive in investigating and getting to the bottom of what happened in that case. and on a parallel track, ami has reportedly been sucking up to the saudis, perhaps because they have some kind of financial relationship or want one. so, you know, there's a lot of unanswered questions about this and what the motivation here was, but just to go back to the question to renato, i think to a normal layperson, this was extortion. right? this was you do "x" or we're going to expose these pictures. >> and they did it in writing, though. allegedly. >> they did it in writing. you know, a lot of smart lawyers have said this is not necessarily criminal, but it is about the sleaziest thing one can imagine, and kudos to jeff bezos for -- at a great personal sacrifice to his privacy for coming back and making their claim zero because he said, you know, what i'm not scared of you to do this, i'm going to put out the information -- >> put it all out there -- >> -- myself. >> -- before you, get ahead of it. listen, renato, david pecker, chairman and ceo of ami started cooperating with the sdny's investigation into michael cohen. that was in august. so if he did commit a crime here, what does that do to his deal? >> oh, well, that deal is worthless at that point. and that's why i will tell you, to me, the real unanswered question here is why did ami and their attorneys take this big risk? i will tell you as an attorney, i advise clients all the time and i usually, when a client is in a situation like this where the federal government is already looking at them, here they have a deal with prosecutors. the downside of losing the trial is so tremendous. anything that gives you a 1% chance of blowing up the deal is somewhere you don't go, you don't take that risk. they must have really been motivated to take a big risk here. i wonder why that is. one possibility is that, perhaps, crimes were committed to get this information of jeff bezos. i mean, what if, for example, in order to get his pictures and texts and so forth a crime was committed? and now that deal, if that's discovered, those crimes, then the whole deal gets blown up there. it has to be pretty major for them to take this kind of risk. >> i have to get you in before i let you go here, mr. legal expert. i want to get your thoughts on this 5-4 with chief justice roberts joining liberals. does that surprise you? >> well, it's interesting, a 2016 decision of the supreme court, almost identical law, that essentially the court of appeals here was trying to say, hey, even though the court in 2016 said this law was unconstitutional, we're going to reverse that here and send it up to the supreme court. even though he reversed this, he upheld the rule of law here and essentially said we're not going let our precedents be overturned in that way. >> what does this mean for the future of roe v. wade, ryan, you think? >> one political point on this, remember susan collins and some of the pro-choice republicans who -- susan collins, specifically, decided to vote for kavanaugh in the end, and she argued strenuously that her private conversations with kavanaugh, her review of his record, led her to believe that she -- that he would be on the other side of decisions like this. and i think there are going to be a lot of questions for susan collins about whether she was correct or not in that judgment, but it also says that there have been previous abortion cases that didn't come down this way, but it does suggests that roberts is not a sure vote to overturn roe v. wade. he's been slightly more nuanced on this than i think some people expected. but watch people talking about susan collins in the coming days and her judgment about kavanaugh and what this decision says about that decision. >> interesting. renato, i also want to get your take on what you think of the special counsel's investigation. mueller's team says the august 2016 meeting between the trump campaign manager paul manafort, his russian associate konstantin kilimnik goes to the heart of what the special counsel is investigating. what does that tell you about where mueller is heading at this point? >> well, mueller has been trying to put together a case of russians and americans working together to commit crimes related to the election. and really, the closest we came to that were some of what we've seen reported and particularly the unredacted portions that were mistakenly revealed by manafort's attorneys about his dealings with kilimnik, where, for example, he was giving internal polling data to kilimnik. i'll tell you this doesn't surprise me. what i'm interested in, whether reading a report or seeing in charges, what more there was in terms of the dealings between manafort and kilimnik. >> thank you, gentlemen, i appreciate it. president is furious the house intelligence committee hired former national security counsel staffers. a member of that committee, congressman mike quigley, responds next. is that for me? mhm aaaah! nooooo... nooooo... nooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. 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"the hill" is reporting tonight that democrats on the house intelligence committee are preparing to issue a subpoena for phone records linked to the june 2016 trump tower meeting. that was a meeting between donald trump junior, jared kushner, paul manafort, and a russian lawyer. so let's discuss now. democratic congressman mike quickly is here. he sits on the house intelligence committee. i appreciate you joining us. i know that you're very busy. so if the report from "the hill" is correct, is it correct that your committee is preparing to subpoena phone records linked to the june 2016 trump tower meeting? is that correct? >> i cannot comment on specific subpoenas that may or may not happen. i will tell you, it is the kind of communication that we're going to be interested in. i think what's fair and important for us to move forward is all communications between trump associates and the russian contacts. and that goes way beyond the phone records, all the other apps and social media platforms in which they were communicating. the fact that we couldn't do that in the last two years under republican control, where they tanked the investigation then shut it down, made the investigation nearly impossible and it made the questioning of people who appeared before us much more difficult. i guess you can compare it to a civil case or a criminal case where you don't have any of the discovery beforehand. so you're flying blind. the fact is we now know there are at least 18 trump associates communicating with russians or their cutouts and at least 100 meetings -- 28 meetings and 100 contacts. i believe it's possible that there are many, many more. for us to fully appreciate what the russians did and whether there was a conspiracy to work with them, we need to know who was communicating with whom and what exactly -- when those communications took place. >> representative, also tonight, we're learning that special counsel's team says that the august 2016 meeting between the trump campaign chairman paul manafort and his russian associate konstantin kilimnik is of significance to mueller. what does that say to you? >> it is one or more -- i believe that that communication, the ongoing communication between mr. manafort and other key russians is absolutely critical to understanding what was taking place. obviously, mr. stone, mr. manafort, mr. flynn, mr. cohen, those are all people who are sort of in the same bailiwick when they're having communications with russians at critical times. it's just one example. a pattern of behavior, if you will, which we're trying to get ahold of and understand more fully. >> let me ask you about the president's former attorney, michael cohen. he's supposed to testify before you committee tomorrow but the chairman, adam schiff, says it's been postponed to the end of the month. this is a quote, "in the interest of the investigation." what does that mean? what's happening between now and the 28th? >> i think that this is a complicated investigation for the special counsel. it's equally complicated investigation for the house and senate committees that are involved. our job is to find out what took place, but not to trample or impair what the special counsel may or may not be doing. i do believe that mr. cohen will testify before multiple committees in the house. i do believe in the final analysis that there will be an open hearing. i believe that's what everyone want, and i do believe that mr. cohen will eventually testify before the house select committee on intelligence. >> your committee has hired the former national security counsel aides to help with oversight efforts. what are you hoping to gain by bringing on these former officials? >> i think there's a wealth of expertise. that comes from what the variety of these people have done. this is a complicated investigation. i compared it to watergate calling it calculous to watergate's algebra. so their expertise, specific areas involving other countries will help us not just with the russian investigation, but remember, you know, 90% of what we do is protect this country. you know, there are the 17 agencies that keep this country safe from the cia, the fbi, and others. they have a world of expertise in the countries that we're concerned about. >> can i ask -- >> yes? >> reportedly, the president is furious, really mad about this. why do you think he's so mad? >> you know, i think the president is showing flashes of desperation. the fact that you would hire career professionals to do the work of the house intellect committee on intelligence, shouldn't concern the president of the united states. i think some of the people we're talking about are career workers who were involved in the obama administration. i think to believe the president and any of his concerns are to believe some sort of deep-state conspiracy. we're not -- he's implying that they're snatching people from his inner circle who are going to reveal critical information about the president of the united states. >> yeah. >> it's simply not true. it's the committee doing its work, bringing on qualified people. >> representative mike quigley, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. take care. house democrats are preparing a major investigation of the president's finances and he is lashing back at them. how worried should he be? 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the committee hearing from experts on how an obscure provision in the tax code could potentially give the chairman access to trump's returns. let's discuss. michael d'antonio here, the a author of "the truth about trump." and andrea bernstein, the co-host of the podcast "trunk, inc." from wnyc and propublica. you won for this podcast? >> a dupont. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> michael, you covered trump for years, adamant about not releasing personal financial details. what is he trying to hide? >> first of all, he lies a lot. no matter what's in the tax returns, we're going to discover he lied about something. he's either lied about how wealthy he is and how much money he makes and the claim to being a billionaire is not quite proven or perhaps he's lied about his connections to foreign interests. maybe he's lied about how he acquired his wealth. the inheritance is from his father. there's so many possibilities here for deception. and i think also, he could wind up being exhibit 1a for what's wrong with the tax system. we may discover that he hasn't paid much in taxes at all for a very long time. and the public's going to see this and think, well, wait a minute, how is this person who's ostensibly so rich not paying taxes the way that i'm paying taxes? so there's nothing good in this for him. >> and you have said and others that there's absolutely no evidence that he's presented -- actual evidence that has been presented that he's a billionaire. >> i'm not sure that he is. you know, he's one of these people who has hectored the various lists insisting that he be put on them as a billionaire. you know, i think during the campaign, it was $10 billion or $12 billion he was worth, but when he and tim o'brien were in court over this, he had trouble proving that he even possessed $1 billion in wealth. >> interesting. so, andrea, when he hosted "the apprentice," he was able to present himself, right, as a businessman, consummate businessman, who has it all together. do you think that, you know, was that accurate as to what was happening behind the scenes at the trump organization? >> well, from what we know now just from the reporting that we've done, that others have done, there were a lot of problems. there was, i mean, for example, look at the michael cohen guilty plea. well, that involved the trump organization participating in making elicit payments, or there's an investigation of the trump foundation, whether there was appropriate walls between the campaign, the foundation, and the trump organization. so from what we have learned already, there are -- there's been a tremendous amount of problematic behavior. so we don't know why the president is so upset. we don't know what there is left to find. it's unknowable until we actually find it. we do know when we examine deals, when we examine financial transaction, when we examine business partners, we find a lot of problematic people and some of the people he was working with are now, we know, outright crooks. >> well -- >> wow. >> you know, what do you think we would think if it were shown that donald trump's business tax returns indicated payments to ami? so how is it that he's gotten such great publicity from the "national enquirer" for so many years? was was he buying the publicity? his assumptions about everybody being corrupt, the way he attacks bezos, for example, are based on his own experience. >> and projection. >> right. so we know that these returns, and if they dig deep enough, get into his business activities, could reveal all kinds of cross currents that no one has imagined. >> in fact, "the new york times" did get some of his father's tax returns. >> right. >> they concluded that there was outright fraud. that was their language. in the way that the trump family business had not declared taxes. not made clear the transfer of wealth from one generation to the next. $413 million, they say, trump's father gave him that he has not declared. he said, oh, no, it was a million. i think obviously what all this is building to is the sort of question is what was he doing in moscow? >> it was amazing to many people that that story in "the new york times" that you referenced was kind of a big shrug, and that's a huge story. >> right. i mean, it's hard to know because these things have a way of coming back around with trump, but it does show that when you start looking even at something that people thought was old and long ago, a lot of questions are raised about possible criminal behavior. >> when it comes to doing business in russia, he's always maintained that he has nothing to hide. listen to this. >> by the way, i would say, i don't -- i don't -- i mean, it's possible that it's a condo or something. i sell a lot of condo units. somebody from russia buys a condo. who knows. i don't make money from russia. i don't have buildings in russia. they said i own buildings in russia. i don't. they said i made money from russia. it's not my thing. i don't -- i don't do that. over the years, i've looked at maybe doing a deal in russia, but i never did one. >> you think that that debt could also be something that he's trying to hide? >> well, i mean, what we know from michael cohen's guilty plea before the special counsel was that the trump organization was trying to get a trump tower building built up until the time practically that president -- now-president trump accepted the nomination of his party, even though he denied. so, again, this question is, if it's all fine, and if it's something as he now says, oh, this is something any businessperson would do, i was running a business, i might not have won, i was entitled to make money. the question is, why did he say all this time that he wasn't when he was if it wasn't problematic? there's a question here about how things add up and fit together. i think what we're having now with the house various oversight committees looking into that is the possibility of actually getting some answers to these questions. >> i got to run. that's got to be the last word. thank you, both. i appreciate, boy, oh, boy, appreciate your time. a republican congressman tried to have the fathers of two parkland victims kicked out of a gun violence hearing when they interrupted him. congressman gaetz told chris cuomo his side of the story tonight. and one of the fathers tells me his side, next. tremfya® can help adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis get clearer. and stay clearer. most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. tremfya®. stay clearer. janssen can help you explore cost support options. sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 24-month financing on all smart beds. only for a limited time. care for the clothes you love with woolite detergent. the new concentrated formula... ...gives you 30% more loads. no stretching, shrinking or fading. woolite. cares as much as it cleans. 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[cell phone rings] where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator... can i call you back, mom? he says it's personal this time... if you're a mom, you call at the worst time. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there. are you taking a zumba class? the father of a parkland shooting victim is speaking out tonight about a raw and emotional encounter on capitol hill. congressman matt gaetz interrupted by two parkland fathers when he tried to use a hearing on gun violence yesterday to discuss illegal immigration and the need for a border wall. well, the congressman then tried to kick the fathers out of the hearing. here's that incredible confrontation. >> hr-8 would not have stopped many of the circumstances i raised, but a wall, a barrier on the southern border, may have and that's what we're fighting for. >> mr. chairman -- >> i hope we'll deal with all of the drivers of violence. the greatest driver of violence in the circumstances that i indicated was not the firearm. it was the fact that we have an immigration system that allows people to come here violently. we engage -- >> there will be no comments or demonstrations, please. >> mr. chairman, is there a process in the committee whereby if the very same people are repeatedly interrupting the time of the members, that those people will be asked to depart the committee or is there -- >> i will. excuse me. if the gentleman repeats that or any other comment, i will direct he be removed. >> joining me now, one of those fathers, manuel oliver. mr. oliver, thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me here. >> we were watching fred guttenberg interrupting representative matt gaetz but both of you lost your children in the parkland shooting. your son joaquin oliver was 17 years old. jamie guttenberg was 14. why did you interrupt the congressman? what were you trying to say to him? >> i was trying to stop him from what he was starting to say and the point he was trying to make, which was out of context in that room. the reason why we are there is because we lost loved ones. there were 100 kids behind us. they're there because they have concerns about gun violence. and let's keep in mind of what really matters here, and that's keeping people alive. he was trying to make a point that was totally unrelated to what the purpose of that meeting was. and i prevent him, in a way, to just go back to the main point here. don't sell an idea that is just not -- it won't belong to this discussion. that was the whole point. i reacted as a father. that's my position. >> yeah. i want you to listen. this is congressman gaetz, on with my colleague, chris, a short time ago. this is what he had to say about the hearing. here it is. >> i wanted to highlight the fact there are victims of gun violence that would be in a better position today if we didn't have illegal immigrants using guns to kill people. why does your network slice and dice the audio to make it look like i was trying to throw a guy out. >> what is your reaction to that? >> well, he did try to throw us out. he wasn't able to. i think he didn't -- i don't know if he knew who we were. i think he did. but sometimes when you have something in your head, that is the only solution, which is what i think in this case, this person has, he won't listen to anything else. he was in that room to make his point, to sell his project. and i was in that room along with another hundred people, asking for answers that will defeat gun violence. he had five minutes to make his point, according to the rules in the room. for me, those were five minutes that we wasted. and this is an emergency. we need to make sure that every minute counts. we need to work faster than he's planning to work. he's part of that committee. and i'm disappointed about that because i don't see him qualified for that. >> you said he was trying to sell his point. you have called him, respective salesperson, with no qualifications to discuss gun violence. what do you mean about that, that he's not qualified to be on the committee? >> well, i think that once you have your mind-set up in a position that will defend the nra and the gun lobby, it's pretty hard to get from you another point of view. and i get that. but it makes no sense. you can be concerned about some people dying and not concerned about the other amount of people that dies in this nation. 40,000 people. let me tell you something, i came to this country looking for a safety place to raise my kids. that makes me an immigrant, that decided to move here because i wanted it to be here. i wanted to live here because i love this nation. now, i'm staying here and i lost my son because he was shot inside his school, by an american citizen, by a white male american citizen. so, it's hard for me to be in a serious conversation when we're trying to move forward and defeat gun violence and receive as an argument from the other side that we need to build a wall so no more illegal aliens are committing crimes in our nation. i think that's another discussion, again. actually, to be honest, i want to go back to where i was before this. i didn't know who this guy was and the name that really matters to me is my son's name and the other 40,000 people that, every single year are not with us. we should all be concerned about that. that's the other thing. if we have something in common here, we are parents. we don't want to lose our kids. i don't want anybody to lose -- you don't have to be where i am to understand this point. so any congressman from any party, any color, should understand this. why is it -- why is it so hard for everyone to get the number of a hundred people dying per day because of gun violence and not doing anything is an option? how come we are concerned about everybody but apparently a group of people, a certain group of people, it will keep defending the crazy idea that by arming more and more and more of the nation, we can solve the problem. >> yeah. well, you are honoring your son by what you're doing. again, your son is joaquin. we thank you so much for that. that's a picture of him. listen, while we are sorry for your loss, we appreciate the way that you are standing up and fighting and trying to do good things for this country. thank you so much, mr. oliver. >> thank you for having me here. thank you very much. >> and thanks for watching. our coverage continues. ♪ ♪ ♪ got it? got it. nooooo... nooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. if you want to know why people you have to start by asking... could listening to audible help you find the secret to a stronger relationship? sometimes it doesn't take anything at all for us... just say "alexa, give me my free audible book," and your first pick is on us. unpredictable crohn's symptoms following you? 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Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20190208

slammed the "post's" coverage of his administration. much, much more on this story in just a moment. also tonight, new developments in the case of paul manafort, president trump's former campaign manager. why a meeting between manafort and with a russian with ties to the kremlin is of special significance to robert mueller's team. and president trump's former lawyer, michael cohen, is headed to prison next month. what we're learning the investigation into his campaign finance crimes is still ongoing. there's lots to talk about. we're going to begin our coverage with mr. shimon prokupecz who is up on all things russia and this investigation. shimon, thank you for joining us. this post from jeff bezos, wow. unbeliev unbeliev unbelievab unbelievable. what are you learning about this allegations against the "national enquirer"? >> pretty substantial here, don, really, you know, it was extraordinary if the way jeff bezos did this putting this all out there for everyone to see certainly admitting this was going to be embarrassing for him but he needed to do it because he says what the "national enquirer" and executives were trying to do was blackmail him, extort and essentially it was to try to prevent the "washington post" from working on a story, an investigation, into the "national enquirer," they've been working on an investigation . a couple of things these e-mails indicate and what bezos' released from the enquirer" is i guess the "washington post" was going to say some of these stories that the "national enquirer" has been working on were political motivated, influenced by political views and decisions and it seems that ami was trying to get the "washington post" from not publishing some of this. from not saying that any of these stories were politically motivated and they tried to use nude photos that they somehow have obtained of jeff bezos and other photos of a relationship he had with a woman. they were trying to use these photos to what jeff bezos says blackmail him, try to prevent from any of this story from getting out and try to skew it somehow in their favor. >> interesting. i wonder if day want to poke the bear with this one considering just how wealthy brkezos is. he's coming out really strong. why is he saying -- why is bezos saying he thinks it has something to do with ami, trump and the saudis? again, hard ball he's playing, too, right? >> yeah, and he's hired top investigators to do this. there are several investigations that are ongoing, bezos says. what's interesting, obviously, that pecker's connection to the president, longtime friend, they may be friends. he protected the president for many, many years. he was involved in some of the catch and kill stories. he was involved in the hush payments to women who accused the president of having an affair with the president, the president then paid. so he's been around a very long time. certainly, in the president's circle. so there is that, perhaps, maybe somehow these stories are being done to try and hurt jeff bezos because of how critical the "washington post," obviously, has been, of the administration and some of the stories that they're been running. but there's this entire other connection, perhaps, that people have been looking into, and bezos says the "washington post" has been looking into it, and that's the saudis. at one point, bezos writes that, in particular, the david pecker/ami, that pecker was apoplectic about their investigation, the "washington post's" investigations, for reasons still to be better understood, but there was a saudi angle that seemed to have hit a particular sensitive nerve of bezos writes. and of course, one of those reasons could be that the murder of jamal khashoggi, of course, and his relationship with the "washington post." so there's still a lot here that needs to be developed, but these are things that according to bezos the "washington post" was working on and it appears that david pecker was concerned. >> interesting. also some new details tonight about the closed-door court hearing between the special counsel's office and paul manafort. what is mueller focusing on? >> yeah, so this was interesting. this was a sealed hearing on monday. today, we got ahold of the transcri transcripts. some of it was redacted as we usually see in these hearings. what we did learn is the special counsel's office was very interested, they called it at this hearing, the heart of their investigation, a meeting between paul manafort around august 2nd of 2016 and a russian operative, a name by the name of konstantin kalimnik. there was a lot of concern and lot of talk that they've been trying to figure out exactly what was going on between this relationship between paul manafort and this russian operative and say that is part of the -- what is the heart of the mueller investigation. >> we're also learning that prosecutors are still investigating michael cohen's campaign finance violations. what does that mean for president trump? >> well, it could be problematic, certainly for his organization. the trump organization. we know that people have been into the southern district of new york, prosecutors in new york, regarding this investigation. that investigation, we learned, in a court filing today, is also still ongoing. there are aspects of the michael cohen investigation that are over, but this particular aspect of the investigation, it appears based on those court documents, that that is still ongoing. we had thought maybe prosecutors had come to some kind of an ending there after implicating the president in the hush money payment, but that investigation, according to this court filing, is still very much ongoing. that means that people in the trump organization can still be prosecuted if they find that they committed crimes. >> shimon, thank you. appreciate your time. i want to bring in now "national enquirer's "former l.a. bureau chief, jerry george. mr. george, i'm so happy that you're here. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me, don. >> absolutely. let's talk about the bezos thing, accusing the "enquirer" of extortion and blackmail. is this how the "enquirer" does business? >> well, you know, if you'll excuse the ve knarnacular, for years, david -- donald trump has had a hard-on for bezos. you know, professional jealousy. the acquisition of amazon. "the new york times." he's taken shots at every chance he got. so it's no surprise that he turned to his good buddy, david pecker, at the "enquirer," you know, to do a hatchet job on him. the surprising thing, i think, is, though, that the "enquirer" would do such a story and play it up so big for, you know, for a name that while everyone in the world knows, you know, bezos, "enquirer" readers aren't that familiar with him. it's not like he's george clooney. >> uh-huh. >> so it just doesn't smell right, and for ami to have almost squeaked by this investigation unscathed and then to go back in to face more potential charges, is baffling. >> yeah. so, listen, this was a bold move by bezos. do you think david pecker and his attorneys, do you think they're surprised, you think they're worried? >> i -- i think that they're -- i think -- i think that they thought they were smarter than they are, and i think now the reality is hitting them and they're freaking out. >> really? go on. do you think -- could bezos end up owning the whole thing? suing them? >> it -- i think it's possible. i mean, the techniques they used are nothing short of extortion. it is -- it is -- it is the reco act. i mean, they've -- this looks like a crime. >> why would -- there are other aspects i want to get -- why would someone who constantly calls out the alleged misdeeds of others, even often wrongly calls them out when many people think it's just projection, and i'm speaking of donald trump, why would he be associated with someone like david pecker who, in your estimation, says uses -- uses, you know, actions that are akin to extortion and the reco act. >> because i think he finds it irresistible. i think he feels he's above the law and he'll use every tool that he has to achieve his goals. >> let's talk about this saudi connection here. bezos says that pecker was bothered by his investigation into ami's ties with the saudis. earlier in the evening, you mentioned how ami put out this glossy tourism special then the "enquirer" made a big acquisition. do you think saudis are funding ami? >> i certainly think it's within the realm. if you stand back and look at it, for them to put out a glossy magazine that was distributed at walmart and it was -- it was just a valentine to saudi arabia, -- it just country doesndoesn't ma >> what do you think ami is go i ing to do now? you said you think they're worrieded. right? what do you think they'll do now? >> in i thi think there will bef contrition and i think they will legal up and promise never to make those mistakes again, but they are an unpredictable bunch. >> jerry george, i appreciate your candor. thank you very much for coming on. >> my pleasure. >> absolutely. so is the "national enquirer" still doing the president's dirty work for him? we're going to dig into that, next. ♪ heartburn, ♪ indigestion, ♪ upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... girl, pepto ultra coating will treat your stomach right. ♪nausea, heartburn, ♪ indigestion, upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... try pepto with ultra coating. 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[birds chirping] [brakes squealing] accidents can happen anytime that's why geico is here 24 hours a day everyday. geico, fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. so here's our breaking news that we're discussing. amazon founder jeff bezos accusing the "national enquirer's" publisher of blackmail and extortion. a very personal blog post, bezos writes the "enquirer's" participant company has been threatening him with embarrassing pictures to get bezos to drop a "washington post" investigation into the "enquirer." ryan lizza, renato mariotti here to discuss. wow. wow. >> this story has it all. >> yeah, this story has it all. good evening. it's like the "saturday night live" skit, this story has it all, it's got foul language, it's got pictures, it's got -- right? money. >> the saudis. >> it's got saudis. renato, bezos says this is blackmail and extortion. is he right? does he have a case? >> well, he's right in our common understanding of those terms. i think it's possible that he could certainly -- he could see the "national enquirer" and ami and get some money out of them. obviously, he has very deep pockets of his own. but i don't think a prosecutor would actually be able to bring this as an extortion case. you know, typical extortion case is where you say, look, i'm going to publish these dick pics and other embarrassing photos if you don't pay me money. here this is the "enquirer's" lawyers trying to settle legal claims between them and bezos and they're throwing this into the settlement. it's much more complicated. there's a bunch of legal issues. it's really awful, but i don't think it's something that a prosecutor would bring. >> i have said and heard things on television tonight that i never in a million years thought. okay. so, ryan, we know how close president trump is with ami. we know how he despises jeff bezos. is ami still doing trump's dirty work? what is going on here? >> i don't foe. i mean, the two leading theories seem to be that ami is either doing the saudis' dirty work, president trump's dirty work, o or a combination of the two. we know that trump hates bezos. we foe that know he attacks hi t frequently on twitter. he hates a lot of reporting at the "washington post." we also know that the saudis are not very happy with the "washington post" because, frankly, the saudis killed one of their opinion columnists and they have been incredibly aggressive in investigating and getting to the bottom of what happened in that case. and on a parallel track, ami has reportedly been sucking up to the saudis, perhaps because they have some kind of financial relationship or want one. so, you know, there's a lot of unanswered questions about this and what the motivation here was, but just to go back to the question to renato, i think to a normal layperson, this was extortion. right? this was you do "x" or we're going to expose these pictures. >> and they did it in writing, though. allegedly. >> they did it in writing. you know, a lot of smart lawyers have said this is not necessarily criminal, but it is about the sleaziest thing one can imagine, and kudos to jeff bezos for -- at a great personal sacrifice to his privacy for coming back and making their claim zero because he said, you know, what i'm not scared of you to do this, i'm going to put out the information -- >> put it all out there -- >> -- myself. >> -- before you, get ahead of it. david pecker, chairman and ceo of ami started cooperating with the sdny's investigation into michael cohene. that was in august. so if he did commit a crime here, what does that do to his deal? >> oh, well, that deal is worthless at that point. and that's why i will tell you, to me, the real unanswered question here is why did ami and their attorneys take this big risk? i will tell you as an attorney, i advise clients all the time and i usually, when a client is in a situation like this where the federal government is already looking at them, here they have a deal with prosecutors. the downside of losing the trial is so tremendous. anything that gives you a 1% chance of blowing up the deal is somewhere you don't go, you don't take that risk. they must have really been motivated to take a big risk here. i wonder why that is. one possibility is that, perhaps, crimes were committed to get this information of jeff bezos. i mean what, for example, they get his pictures and texts and so forth, a crime was committed and now that deal, if that's discovered, those crimes, then the whole deal gets blown up there. it has to be pretty pay jor fma them to get thtake this kind of >> mr. legal export, i want to get your thoughts on -- this is 5-4 with chief justice roberts joining liberals. does that surprise you? >> well, it's interesting, a 2016 decision of the supreme court, almost identical law, that essentially the court of appeals here was trying to say, hey, even though the court in 2016 said this law was unconstitutiu unconstitutional, we're going to reverse that and second it up to the supreme court. ev he upheld the rule of law here and essentially said we're not going to let our precedents be overturned in that way. >> what does this mean for theru think? >> one political point on this, remember susan collins and some of the pro-choice republicans who -- susan collins, specifically, decided to vote for kavanaugh in the end, and she argued strenuously that her private conversations with kavanaugh, her review of his record, led her to believe that she -- that he would be on the other side of decisions like this. and i think there are going to be a lot of questions for susan collins about whether she was correct or not in that judgment, but it also says that there have been previous abortion cases that didn't come down this way, but it does suggests that roberts is not a sure vote to overturn roe v. wade. he's been slightly more nuanced on this than i think some people expected. but watch people talking about susan collins in the coming days and her judgment about kavanaugh and what this decision says about that decision. >> interesting. renato, i also want to get your take on what you think of the special counsel's investigation. mueller's team says the august 2016 meeting between the trump campaign manager paul manafort, his russian associate konstantin kilimnik goes to the heart of what the special counsel is investigating. what does that tell you about where mueller is heading at this point? >> well, mueller has been trying to put together a case of russians and americans working together to commit crimes related to the election. and really, the closest we came to that were some of what we've seen reported and particularly the unredacted portions that were mistakenly revealed by manafort's attorneys about his dealings with kilimnik, where, for example, he was giving internal polling data to kilimnik. i'll tell you this doesn't surprise me. what i'm interested in, whether reading a report or seeing in charges, what more there was in terms of the dealings between manafort and kilimnik. >> thank you, gentlemen, i appreciate it. president is furious the house intelligence committee hired former national security counsel staffers. a member of that committee, congressman mike quigley, responds next. king too loud. sorry, is that too loud? you don't need any more hormones in your house. that's why you chose kraft natural cheese. made with fresh milk without the added hormone rbst. it's cheese as it should be. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? 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[indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪ it's a revolution in sleep. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from $899, during the ultimate sleep number event. it senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it even helps with this. so you wake up ready to hit the ground running. only at a sleep number store. save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 24-month financing on all smart beds. only for a limited time. sleep number. proven, quality sleep. cle...is a hassle.th a mop and bucket... swiffer wetjet makes cleaning easy. it's safe to use on all finished surfaces, ...trapping dirt and liquid inside the pad. plus, it prevents streaks better than a micro fiber strip mop. for a convenient clean, try swiffer wetjet. the hill is reporting tonight that democrats on the house intelligence committee are preparing to issue a subpoena for phone records linked to the june 2016 trump tower meeting. that was a meeting between donald trump junior, jared kushner, paul manafort, and a russian lawyer. so let's discuss now. democratic congressman mike quickly is here. i appreciate you joining us. i know that you're very busy. so if the report from "the hill" is correct, is it correct that your committee is preparing to subpoena phone records linked to the june 2016 trump tower meeting? is that correct? >> i cannot comment on specific subpoenas that may or may not happen. i will tell you, it is the kind of communication that we're going to be interested in. i think what's fair and important for us to move forward is all communications between trump associates and the russian contacts. and that goes way beyond the phone records, all the other apps and social media platforms in which they were communicating. the fact that we couldn't do that in the last two years under republican control, where they tanked the investigation then shut it down, made the investigation nearly impossible and it made the questioning of people who appeared before us much more difficult. i guess you can compare it to a civil case or a criminal case where you don't have any of the discovery beforehand. so you're flying blind. the fact is we now know there are at least 18 trump associates communicating with russians or their cutouts and at least 100 meetings -- 28 meetings and 100 contacts. i believe it's possible that there are many, many more. for us to fully appreciate what the russians did and whether there was a conspiracy to work with them, we need to know who was communicating with whom and what exactly -- when those communications took place. >> representative, also tonight, we're learning that special counsel's team says that the august 2016 meeting between the trump campaign chairman paul manafort and his russian associate konstantin kilimnik is of significance to mueller. what does that say to you? >> it is one or more -- i believe that that communication, the ongoing communication between mr. manafort and other key russians is absolutely critical to understanding what was taking place. obviously, mr. stone, mr. manafort, mr. flynn, mr. cohen, those are all people who are sort of in the same bailiwick when they're having communications with russians at critical times. it's just one example. a pattern of behavior, if you will, which we're trying to get ahold of and understand more fully. >> let me ask you about the president's former attorney, michael cohen. he's supposed to testify before you committee tomorrow but the chairman, adam schiff, says it's been postponed to the end of the month. this is a quote, "in the interest of the investigation." what does that mean? what's happening between now and the 28th? >> i think that this is a complicated investigation for the special counsel. it's equally complicated investigation for the house and senate committees that are involved. our job is to find out what took place, but not to trample or impair what the special counsel may or may not be doing. there will be an open hearing. i believe that's what everyone wants and i do believe that mr. cohen -- >> your committee has hired the former national security counsel aides to help with oversight efforts. what are you hoping to gain by bringing on these former officials? >> i think there's a wealth of ex-perth te ex-per feet that co pe-pe pe-p-. this is a complicated investigation. i compared it to watergate calling it calculous to watergate's algebra. so their expertise, specific areas involving other countries will help us not just with the russian investigation, but remember, you know, 90% of what we do is protect this country. you know, there are the 17 agencies that keep this country safe from the cia, the fbi, and others. they have a world of expertise in the countries that we're concerned about. >> can i ask -- >> yes? >> reportedly, the president is furious, really mad about this. why do you think he's so mad? >> you know, i think the president is showing flashes of desperation. the fact that you would hire career professionals to do the work of the house intellect committee on intelligence, shouldn't concern the president of the united states. i think some of the people we're talking about are career workers who were involved in the obama administration. i think to believe the president and any of his concerns are to believe some sort of deep-state conspiracy. we're not -- he's implying that they're snatching people from his inner circle who are going to reveal critical information about the president of the united states. >> yeah. >> it's simply not true. it's the committee doing its work, bringing on qualified people. >> representative mike quigley, i appreciate your time. thank withdryou. >> thank you. take care. house democrats are preparing a major investigation of the president's finances and he is lashing back at them. how worried should he be? 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need a change of scenery? kayak searches hundreds of travel sites - even our competitors - so you can be confident you're getting the right flight at the best price. kayak. search one and done. your favorite restaurants now it doesn't matter dash. where you are. ♪ it doesn't matter what you're hungry for. it doesn't even matter how many you are. ♪ restaurants come to you. delicious at your door. download doordash. first order, no delivery fee. democrats on the house ways and means committee taking the first steps today to try to get president trump's tax returns. can you believe that? the committee hearing from experts on how an obscure provision in the tax code could potentially give the chairman access to trump's returns. let's discuss. michael d'antonio here, the a thundershow author of "the truth about trump." and andrea, podcast of "trump inc" from wnyc and pro publica. you won for this podcast? >> a dupont. >> congratulations. >>michael, you covered trump for years, adamant about not releasing personal financial deta details. what is he trying to hide? >> first of all, he lies a lot. no matter what's in the tax returns, we're going to discover he lied about something. he's either lied about how wealthy wealthy he is and how much money he makes and the claim to being a billionaire is not quite proven or perhaps he's lied about his connections to foreign interests. maybe he's lied about how he acquired his wealth. the inheritance is from his father. there's so many possibilities here for deception. and i think also, he could wind up being exhibit 1a for what's wrong with the tax system. we may discover that he hasn't paid much in taxes at all for a very long time. and the public's going to see this and think, well, wait a minute, how is this person who's ostensibly so rich not paying taxes the way that i'm paying taxes? so there's nothing good in this for him. >> and you have said and others that there's absolutely no evidence that he's presented -- actual evidence that has been presented that he's a billionaire. >> i'm not sure that he is. you know, he's one of these people who has hectored the various lists insisting that he be put on them as a billionaire. you know, i think during the campaign, it was $10 billion or $12 billion he was worth, but when he and tim o'brien were in court over this, we had trouble proving that he even possessed $1 billion in wealth. >> interesting. so, andrea, when he hosted "the apprentice," he was able to present himself, right, as a businessman, consummate businessman, who has it all together. do you think that, you know, was thatting a ing ting accurate happening behind the scenes at the trump organization? >> well, from what we know now just from the reporting that we've done, that others have done, there were a lot of problems. there was, i mean, for example, look at the michael cohen guilty plea. well, that involved the trump organization participating in making elicit payments, or there's an investigation of the trump foundation, whether there was appropriate walls between the campaign, the foundation, and the trump organization. so from what we have learned already, there are -- there's been a tremendous amount of problematic behavior. so we don't know why the president is so upset. we don't know what there is left to find. it's unknowable until we actually find it. we do know when we examine deals, when we examine financial transaction, when we examine business partners, we find a lot of problematic people and some of the people he was working with are now, we know, outright crooks. >> well -- >> wow. >> you know, what do you think we would think if it were shown that donald trump's business tax returns indicated payments to ami? so how is it that he's gotten such great publicity from the "national enquirer" for so many years? was was he buying the publicity? his assumptions about everyobod being corrupt, the way he attacks bezos, for example, are based on his own experience. >> and projection. >> right. so we know that these returns, and if they dig deep enough, get into his business activities, could reveal all kinds of procescross currents that no one has imagined. >> in fact, "the new york times" got some of his father's tax returns. >> right. >> they concluded that there was outright fraud. that was their language. in the way that the trump family business had not declared taxes. not made clear the transfer of wealth from one generation to the next. $413 million, they say, trump's father gave him that he has not declared. he said, oh, no, it was a million. i think obviously what all this is building to is the sort of question is what was he doing in moscow? >> it was amazing to many people that that story in "the new york times" that you referenced was kind of a big shrug, and that's a huge story. >> right. i mean, it's hard to know because these things have a way of coming back around with trump, but it does show that when you start looking even at something that people thought was old and long ago, a lot of questions are raised about possible criminal behavior. >> when it comes to doing business in russia, he's always maintained that he has nothing to hide. listen to this. >> by the way, i would say, i don't -- i don't -- i mean, it's possible that it's a condo or something. i sell a lot of condo units. somebody from russia buys a condo. who knows. i don't make money from russia. i don't have buildings in russia. they said i own buildings in russia. i don't. they said i made money from russia. it's not my thing. i don't -- i don't do that. over the years, i've looked at maybe doing a deal in russia, but i never did one. >> you think that that debt could also be something that he's trying to hide? >> well, i mean, what we know from michael cohen's guilty plea before the special counsel was that the trump organization was trying to get a trump tower building built up until the time practically that president -- now-president trump accepted the nomination of his party, even though he denied. so, again, this question is, if it's all fine, and if it's something as he now says, oh, this is something any businessperson would do, i was running a business, i might not have won, i was entitled to make money. the question is, why did he say all this time that he wasn't when he was if it wasn't problematic? there's a question here about how things add up and fit together. i think what we're having now with the house various oversight committees looking into that is the possibility of actually getting some answers to these questions. >> i got to run. that's got to be the last word. thank you, both. i appreciate, boy, oh, boy, appreciate your time. a republican congressman tried to have the fathers of two parkland victims kicked out of a gun violence hearing when they interrupted him. he told chris cuomo his side of the story tonight. and one of the fathers tells me his side, next. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ ♪ run with us on a john deere 1 series tractor. beacuse changing your attachments, should be as easy as... what about this? changing your plans. yeah. run with us. search "john deere 1 series" for more. the father of a parkland shooting victim is speaking out tonight about a raw and emotional l encounter on capitol hill. congressman matt gaetz interrupted by two parkland fathers when he tried to use a hearing on gun violence yesterday to discuss illegal immigration and the need for a border wall. well, the congressman then tried to kick the fathers out of the hearing. here's that incredible confrontation. >> hr-8 would not have stopped many of the circumstances i raised, but a wall, a barrier on the southern border, may have and that's what we're fighting for. >> mr. chairman -- >> i hope we'll deal with all of the drivers of violence. the greatest driver of violence in the circumstances that i indicated was not the firearm. it was the fact that we have an immigration system that allows people to come here violently. we engage -- >> there will be no comments or demonstrati demonstrations, please. >> mr. chairman, is there a process in the committee whereby if the very same people are repeatedly interrupting the time of the members, that those people will be asked to depart the subcommittcommittee or is t >> i will. excuse me. if the gentleman repeats that or any other comment, i will direct he be removed. >> joining me now, one of those fathers, manuel oliver. mr. oliver, thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. >> thank you for having me here. >> we were watching fred guttenberg interrupting representative matt your son was 17 years old. jamie guttenberg was 14. why did you interrupt the congressman? what were you trying to say to him? >> i was trying to stop him from what he was starting to say and the point he was trying to make, which was out of context in that room. the reason why we are there is because we lost loved ones. there were 100 kids behind us. they're there because they have concerns about gun violence. and let's keep in mind of what really matters here, and that's keeping people alive. he was trying to make a point that was totally unrelated to what the purpose of that meeting was. and i prevent him, in a way, to just go back to the main point here. don't sell an idea that is just not -- it won't belong to this discussion. that was the whole point. i reacted as a father. that's my position. >> yeah. i want you to listen. this is congressman gaetz, on with my colleague, chris, a short time ago. this is what he had to say about the hearing. here it is. >> i wanted to highlight the fact there are victims of gun violence that would be in a better position today if we didn't have illegal immigrants coming in to kill people. why does your network slice and dice the audio to make it look like i was trying to throw a guy out. >> what is your reaction to that? >> well, he did try to throw us out. he wasn't able to. i think he didn't -- i don't know if he knew who we were. i think he did. but sometimes when you have something in your head, that is the only solution, which is what i think in this case, this person has, he won't listen to anything else. he was in that room to make his point, to sell his project. and i was in that room along with another hundred people, asking for answers that will defeat gun violence. he had five minutes to make his point, according to the rules in the room. for me, those were five minutes that we wasted. and this is an emergency. we need to make sure that every minute counts. we need to work faster than he's planning to work. he's part of that committee. and i'm disappointed about that because i don't see him qualified for that. >> you said he was trying to sell his point. you have called him, respective qualifications to talk about gun violence. what do you mean about that, that he's not qualified to be on the committee? >> once you have your mind made up, it's hard to get from you another point of view. and i get that. but it makes no sense. you can be concerned about some people dying and not concerned about the other amount of people that dies in this nation. 40,000 people. let me tell you something, i came to this country looking for a safety place to raise my kids. that makes me an immigrant, that decided to move here because i wanted it to be here. i wanted to live here because i love this nation. now, i'm staying here and i lost my son because he was shot inside his school, by an american citizen, by a white male american citizen. so, it's hard for me to be in a serious conversation when we're trying to move forward and defeat gun violence and receive as an argument from the other side that we need to build a wall so no more illegal aliens are committing crimes in our nation. i think that's another discussion, again. actually, to be honest, i want to go back to where i was before this. i didn't know who this guy was and the name that really matters to me is my son's name and the other 40,000 people that, every single year are not with us. we should all be concerned about that. that's the other thing. if we have something in common here, we are parents. we don't want to lose our kids. i don't want anybody to lose -- you don't have to be where i am to understand this point. so, any congressman from any party, any color, should understand this. why is it -- why is it so hard for everyone to get the number of a hundred people dying per day because of gun violence and not doing anything is an option? how come we are concerned about everybody but apparently a group of people, a certain group of people, it will keep defending the crazy idea that by arming more and more and more of the nation, we can solve the problem. >> yeah. well, you are honoring your son by what you're doing. again, your son is joaquin. we thank you so much for that. that's a picture of him. listen, while we are sorry for your loss, we appreciate the way that you are standing up and fighting and trying to do good things for this country. thank you so much, mr. oliver. >> thank you for having me here. >> thanks for watching. our coverage continues. pickup. r full-se and this year, it's déjà vu all over again 'cuz only the ford f-150 with its high strength, military-grade aluminum alloy body gives you best-in-class torque, best-in-class payload... and you got it, baby... best-in-class towing. still leading the pack. this is the big dog! this is the ford f-150. it doesn't just raise the bar, pal. it is the bar. got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? 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Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20190510

figure. >> you're never going to get it out of me. >> i don't know why you're being so goofy. >> "people" says it? i would have to believe it if "people" says it. >> for donald trump, the direction was going down. that's according to the "new york times" analysis of trump's taxes, which documented a decade where trump touted his "art of the deal," all the while he lost over a billion dollars. and, by the way, that's not an accomplishment. that's like bad! good morning and welcome to "morning joe. it is friday, may 10th. along with joe, willie and me -- he was not here a half a second ago. oh, yeah, this was not pretty. this was a courough start. >> willie and i have been here flew 4:15, going through the papers, going through the dogs. we know which dogs to bet on this weekend. >> we have a very big day ahead. >> yes. >> you a know what? a lot of people can just wing it. >> not you. >> but you do my psychological mackup, will make-up, willie, too meticulous. >> what were you saying? >> you still pore through those world books and the encyclopedia every morning? >> yes. you know that war map, pacing back and forth. >> she's writing stuff down and getting ready for her -- that's how i do it, right? except it's a couple hours longer than that. >> fix yourself up. >> we've got john heilemann. washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay. the host of "saturday night politics" donny deutsch. >> not since "saturday night live" has a show been so dominant on a saturday night. >> not since howard cosell's saturday night. >> we can work on it, donny. anyhow. >> so you're sort of a pop culture guy. can you tell me who debuted on the first howard cosell saturday night? >> man, i can't. i'm embarrassed i can't. no credentials i once had as a pop culture guy are now ruin. who was? >> bay city rollers. >> how much tartan was involved? >> and howard was des. ly trying to be the new ed sullivan, get the bay city rollers with "saturday night." they were all wearing kilt skirts and all talked like groundskeeper willie. it just didn't work. >> it was not the beatles on ed sullivan snp. >> but i liked it, though. i'm sorry. >> how many songs did they play? "saturday night" and what? >> i forget. >> let's look this up. >> anybody buy anything from china overnight? my book perhaps. it's not from china. >> some of the greatest liner notes ever, by the way, because we're going to try to talk for 12 minutes before we talk about politics. i'm joking, phil. some of the greatest liner notes ever. i think it was ''75, '76, the beatles rereleased "live at the hollywood bowl," an extraordinary album. it was the first time a new generation of kids heard how crazy those concerts were. on the liner notes george martin wrote -- talked about nobody today can believe how big the beatles were in their time. he said my daughter found out after she fond out that i did what i did with the beatles, she asked me were they as big as the bay city rollers, dad? and george being the good father said, "probably not, dear, probably not." >> that's nice. that's nice. >> '75. so the band had been bron up for just five years. it's ancient history. no one can remember what the beatles were just five years ago. >> new overnight at 12:01 this morning, the tariff rate on $200 billion worth of chinese goods was raised from 10% to 25%. >> wow. >> china's commerce ministry said says will retaliate with, quote, necessary konter measures. the hikes come in the middle round of trade talks which began in washington and are set to continue today. >> katty, what's the impact? >> the impact on american consumers, they're already seeing it. if you want to buy a dishwasher, it $100 more expensive because of these tariffs. so add the fact that we've gone from 100 billion worth of good to 250 billion worth of goods, of time there a's a heek in tariffs, see a tax. the president said it the chinese paying for these tariffs. that's not the case. it's american consumers and american farmers because the chinese retaliate with taxes on american farmers, soy bean prices falling through the floor and then the government pays them money in order to keep them happy, which is also effectively a tax on the americans. >> this is the equivalent of owning the libs by buying like $100 worth of sushi and having the owner say ing ing is it's sf shooting yourself in the foot. >> i think i got that. >> he's giving them $100, they insult him and then he throws it away. he's out $100. they don't care. >> the main thing about that story is it's no good for anybody. that's the same with the tariffs, no good for anybody. >>here you're going to have people cheering in the audiences going, yeah, we're tough! usa! >> as everything that they buy in walmart, everything they buy in target, everything they buy everybody where goes up. it's actually not hurting the chinese. it's hurting you, the consumer. >> there would be a grand irony if the one thing that trump has had -- really has going for him, heing into relebs, which is as we all ak naj a strong all he had to do was just stay if he man pajed to screw up the one really strong card in his hand heading into 2020. >> there are a lot of people who are genuinely critics of donald trump's who do agree that mrk not just american experiences also is the policy going to produce the results he wants or does it get the chinese to walk away from the table, which is what we've just seen this week? >> and there's not in a many pop who think the right way to handle the chinese is to slap. >> conservatives, republicans of course used to be against tariffs. some still are. it interesting. but the biggest problem is, mika, your father knew this better than anybody, when you deal with the chinese, you can't be a day trader. >> no. >> we always tell the funny story about, you know, the dinner at your house with opening the china, but that took years. it took sy vance going there. and your dad had to go in and make it happen. it took a long time here. you can't day trade against the chinese. they think in terms of decades, in terms of centuries. donald trump will the rally thinks in terms of minutes. >> bernie sanders won the 2016 new hampshire primary with 60% of the vote, but a new poll from monmouth university shows former vice president joe biden doubles sanders' support in his neighboring state. biden takes 36% to to 18% with pete budget budget at 9:hearsay clocks in at 6% followed by in a three-way tie for sixth place with 2%. what do you think of those numbers? >> leave that up for just a minute. think about if you're somebody other than joe biden or best at this point. buttigieg is up with the contenders in the second tier. but joe biden isn't just winning the idea of a referendum. new hampshire 18 point, iowa 0 points, south carolina, massive leads for joe biden. we'll still late again, long way to go before it won't be a close second or third,s who can beat trump. there's so much discussion of left brain issues bush what's going to trump everything is how do we get this guy out of office? you get, four, five times the media, which almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. i think what cory book are did, staking prn i think he also has what i call the trump benefit is people wanted trump so badly they were willing to let things slide off of him. so all the things going to to stick to joe, i think people are going to let a lot of the left brain stuff going and dismiss it because they want it so bad. >> john, you've covered these things really closely. you look at all of these candidates. if you're sitting there 20 points ahead in the early states, 20 points ahead in the national polls, you've got a field of 20, are you really going to be the one at 4% that decides you're going to go out in a flame of glory attacking joe biden with nasty 30-second autds? joe biden's peggest challenge is joe biden, if he stays on script, stays disciplined and continues to do the things he's been doing over the past couple weeks. it's going. yeah, we'll say it, it's going to be difficult to catch a guy with a 20-point lead. he's got to give the rest of the field help. >> look, i don't man to be the contrarian at the table. if biden performs well, doesn't make his takes. in 2008 barack obama was behind hillary clinton in of poll, state polls, nas polls, by more than this later in the race. she was ahead by 30 points nationally around labor day. so i think one of the issues is for a lot of these candidates in that there's eight right now, the one, we showed above 1%. for a lot of those candidates and most democratic voters do not know who they are. joe biden and bernie sanders are the two people who every democratic prime rip vote nomination contest voter knows. those two. it not surprising they would be this far ahead. there's no doubt, as donny says, that people look at biden and say that's the guy that can take on trump. if that's the on thing they care about but certainly can you envision the person standing next to donald trump? they've not seen people buttigieg, beto o'rourke, kamala harris on a debate stage in action yet. >> well, they're going to see them on debate stage with 20 other people. >> of that the kaes in 2008, too. again, barack obama is a different character. i'm just going to say there's no doubt there's a lot of debates and a lot of miles. most of these candidates not known they can't tell you anything about amy wloeb. they're going. >> oh, i didn't know who this guy was, i really like him, right? how many million people saw amy klobuchar during the cavanaugh hearings? how many people saw cory book are? how many people know who elizabeth warren is. if you're voting in a democratic primary, chances are really good i think maybe some people don't exactly know who meek el benn i. mayor pete came out of nowhere and has a lot of excitement behind him. i just think this year it going to be very difficult. what has cam la harris done since his announcement? what's beto been doing? >> rchlts well, commonwealth la has been in hearings. >>. >> dean: but but my minute is this. they get attention because not on are they competing with the top two or three democratic candidates, they're competing with the noise of donald trump of day. and that is a lot of noise. it's hard to break through that. >> i agree the democrats have been so focused on taking back the white house, they have been paying attention. they do know who these candidates are and they did watch the calf hearings and they did see them performing. joe biden got some criticism for he's won it on being the go kp i'm the guy that can beat trump. that's what i can do for you. think that strategy, where's the policy, what are you going to do? his strategy is right nor him at the moment. >> you know, donny, i always said in 2008 that the obama cam pan marketed barack obama like, you know, a big coke or pepsi, which it not an insult because joe kennedy said we're going to sell you like why are so. and that is -- that's what all of this branding's about. this just is i own dove soap, right? mika owns irish spring, and then there are 18 new soaps out there and we've got all the money and the more money we have, the more of a market share we have, the more wall street invests in us. you don't think money's not pouring into joe biden's kofs right now. >> hmm. >> how going to -- >> exactly. >> that analogy went off the tracks. >> you name whatever -- deep side and you're going to start making soap, in for the lee the top so has such app -- this is a so that has come on and said we are going to clean up the climate. this is a so that -- something you're so concerned about that this so has the ability to do something that the or soaps haven't. so the more your new so takes a shot at that so where i want this to happen so badly, don't knock this other so. this is not about biden. there is such an emotional need to tack trump out of office that it so supersedes everything else. the other thing as far as the money for biden, the democrat money's biggest fear is a bernie sanders. so basically it's a lot of -- >> can i say this, too, donnie, when you're sitting within employment before lee 4%, the economy is stronger that it's opinion in a very this. or thing the democrats are going to be smart, if you like under certain major statistics, it is not good for large part this to your point the socialism war will get trump re-elected period. >> donnie clearly is the axe body spray of sos. which is to -- you brought up dove. dove has always been in my hour. since i can remember i use dove. >> we don't need to hear about your personal life. >> you have this stupefied look on your face. >> go ahead. >> mika mass s sp ic and span and brillo. i don't know. >> willie. >> let's get to exclusive reporting from nbc. new details's what's described as an unusual meeting between bolton. nbc news has learned that boaton fwared cia director gina haas welfare reform, chairman of the jont chief of staff joe dunford, mike momio and dan croates for a 7 a.m. meeting at headquarters. nash meeting at theically nltd nld in officials or rab at the time members to attend why was this so significant and what exactly were they talking about over at cia headquarters? >> well, we know that it was significant because this is just not how these meetings are typically held. usually they happen, as you mentioned, in the situation room in, the white house. there's a secure meeting room. they can review all sorts of very classified, highly sensitive materials there. so it raised some high brows because it was held at cia headquarters in langley, virginia and this happened on april 29th early in the morning. and it was led by national security adviser john bolton. and i think that -- you can't sort of underestimate him overseeing this meeting has gotten people's attention because offiously he is an iran hawk and he has advocated in the past regime change in ran. we're told it did not have anything to do with the intelligence that led to a couple daes later the decision to move the carrier into the persian gulf that iran wassing if and the reason it could attack american military members in the region. but flrp two sort of reasons why for some former officials told thus might happen and one is that sometimes when the cia wants to brief on a covert operation, this will do or something that they're waiting for some sort of new authorization for. the other reason is there could be a disagreement on intelligence. former vice president dick cheney used to go to cnn headquarters so a. >> was there concerned about what was discussed ensood that meeting? >> the concerns are more about what's the path here, what's the end game or is this sort of another steb towards a national security but the flip side is there's growing concern that this is a white house on a march to some sort of military confrontation with iran and that brins a whole ho brings a whole host of other problems and this could be nor piece of whatever case they may want to make to thatnd. >> unof the people in the room was acting defense exact pat be trk though he will be nominated his first choice. >> he wound up turning some of shanahan critics, thises saying you can't have an acting titlend just in fact he felt shanahan doesn't act the part of defense secretary, he doesn't have a very strong presence in person prn and more importantly on television. he wassin sure but maybe didn't want to pull him out because he was already there. in had been weeks and he decided togo with it yesterday. >> still ahead on "monday of rudy giuliani, we're not meddling in an investigation, woor mud. >> he does say the quiet part. >> it unbelievable! >> we're not obstructing traffic, we're obstructing justice! >> geez, it's not even 4:00 yet. his upcoming trip to ukraine -- >> do we know, that was quote after 6:00? >> no one knows. >> it always. >> dean: as giuliani tells the mosht, there's nothing illegal about it. some could say it's improper. you're watching "morning joe." >> it's more like 6:45. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ discover. hi, what's this social security alert? it's a free alert if we find your social security number on the dark web. good, cuz i'm a little worried about my information getting out. why's that? 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(beep) (bang) good luck with that one. yes! that's why i wear skechers slip-ons. they're effortless. just slip them right on and off. skechers slip-ons, with air-cooled memory foam. no, no, i want pink elephants coming out of the speakers during sergeant pepper's -- >> i'm reading the most incredible book. it's talking about how people in silicon valley microdose lsd. >> there's some people in brooklyn. >> there's some quarters in new york city where that happens also. >> so explain -- >> i don't know what it is and i'm certainly not endorsing it but i'm told there are some people at very large companies who just take a level something at the beginning of the day that locks them in, puts them in zone for the day. >> for people who have depression, these microdoses can be enormously effective. the results can be felt for months after, good effects on depress and anxiety. i have not tried it. >> who is the write are? >> meek el pollen wrote a book about this. >> about psychedelics. >> john hopkins came out in 2006 that talks about people with cancer. >> therapeutic effects. >> people facing cancer, facing possibility of death actually, this has an extraordinarily positive impact on many of them. >> a load of money is going into it now. >> willie, why don't you take this story, it's right there. right here. >> let's lock in. >> right there. read it. >> one of the key figures at the center of responsible robert mueller's investigation recently sat down with nbc news for an exclusive interview. o'leg deripaska, with close ties to the kremlin was joining us live from london, nbc news senior international correspondent kier simmons. what have we learned? >> what i think you'll find has pivoted so much to ak saegss of obstruction. when i read the mueller report, i read a fascinating inside into the way russia works and a whole bunch including oleg deripaska. he is name is in the report many about the cam pan. he denies that but what he says is that the request that was made by the special counsel was so broad, he calls it a fishing expedition that it was. >> it's a long list of companies which they tried to get information off and just for your understanding, hooves asked about nrs and season it's a huge, three maybe four huge trucks first it was a company that i never met. it was a stupid request, just railroad nick owe shea and contact with trump's is advisers team. >> stupid questions but another aspect of this conversation that was really fascinating is this in, was a that interesting account tacking about 350 russian men when i try to talk to him about his relationship with president putin and how he has to navigate that. there at least some of the responsibility for the sanctions lies shortly. >> to really below now i am position to debate this? i'm sorry. >> what was the last time you spoke to president putin? >> more it and a year ago. >> how often did you speak to him at that time? >> not as often as you can imagine. give move any benefits, not just ten, no 20, one bit fit i had, or my company have during with 19 years he is in power. >> he's now suing the u.s. over those sanctions. but one of the arguments he tries to make, guys, is that he issing put out of business and he's one of a number of private businessmen in russia and increasingly it's run by the state. >> keir, let me ask you another important question, no topic about your hometown. how crazy is london going, football fans going over the fact that you have an all-english final champions league between liverpool and t tottenham and an all english europa league between chelsea and -- if you're a london er look, soccer in this country is a natural passion and it's a great thing that you share it, my friend. >> nbc's keir simmons, thank you so much can you love wearing powerful sunscreen? yes! neutrogena® ultra sheer. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®. it's how we care for our patients- like job. his team at ctca treated his cancer and side effects. so job can stay strong for his family. cancer treatment centers of america. appointments available now. cancer treatment centers of america. leave no man behind. or child. or other child. or their new friend. or your giant nephews and their giant dad. or a horse. or a horse's brother, for that matter. the room for eight, 9,000 lb towing ford expedition. donald trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani is heading abroad to push investigations that he hopes will benefit the president's reelection by undermining the d.o.j.'s successful prosecution of paul manafort and going after joe biden. "the new york times" reports that giuliani plans to travel to ukraine shortly to meet with that country's president-elect to, quote, urge him to pursue inquiries that allies of the white house contend could yield new information about two matters of intense interest to mr. trump. one is the origin of the special counsel's investigation into russia's interference in the 2016 election. the other is the involvement of former vice president joe biden's son in a gas company owned by a ukrainian oligarch. >> the timeline doesn't match there. it's a ridiculous -- it's a ridiculous argument. >> the president's personal lawyer told the paper, quote, we're not meddling in an election, we're meddling in an investigation. >> let's just stop right there. i don't want to hear anymore about this temperature. >> has always had no respect for constitutional norms. >> he plays very dirty. that's what i talked to jill biden about. >> but the pace is quickening and you're starting to see things. for instance, the attorney general commits merges ry nobod trump world lifts an eyebrow, no republicans care. a week later he's joking about it in front of a, all of these conservative writers are now all going in to william barr. just want to let you guys now -- i don't know, maybe you've known him for a long time. doesn't matter. you're defending the most corrupt attorney general, i mean, since john mitchell. like it's bad. the article is going to look extraordinarily stupid and you're going to look like -- well, the sycophant. it's really embarrassing. i hope you'll protect yourself from that. you rool the sycophant. but just to get, john, back to the quickening paz of this, we had drp in saying i believe the e ex-k. >> director, frasching america's military and their intel community as well. now you have the going to another country the united states's justice department. he said that. most of whom that have been working in america's justice department that rudy is going to, in his words, undermine, appointed by donald trump. this is madness and, why, there as you had rudy giuliani a couple weeks ago coming out and saying what we've now learned from the mueller report is that there's no problem accepting dirt, stolen material from a foreign country in a campaign essentially as long as it ut i. >> to follow up on that, and denying it ever took place. >> for them the lesson of the mueller report is to do something the people people found totally acceptable. tlp lesson is if we announce ifwhatever you want to call it, seeking the aid of foreign adversaries to undermine political opponent, it okay, so long as we do it out about republicans rallying in, falling in for donald trump, gets the a so-called rabs by supporters of are you doing this to the jump family? you have he is now being held up and a$ and it's having interesting that she spoke tofrb he's been conservative. he's been a loyal republican. he's been, you know, a littleam f buckley concerned, been a -- what can you say before donald trump? but, donny, they've just completely thrown their brand out window. they're big spenders. i mean, biggest spending squad of republicans. they're big-government republicans. they've just trashed the rule of law. they don't care about it. the very standards they held blnt to they've completely forgotten now. er that excusing perjury by the attorney general of the ups of america. they are supporting tariffs, they are shutting down immigration. they're doing everything, everything that ronald reagan opposed, including kowtowing to an ex-k.g.b. agent. it's just madness. >> counting the amount of laws trump has even broken or bending laws. what is the tipping point for voters? how do the democrats wrap that into something? and i think it's none of the specific legal issues, it trump and wealthy people are part of a rigged system that have two sets of law. >> i think we're there. i'm in the minority here. i think people -- i know there was one poll out this weekend, it's an outlier, donald trump is a 40% president at best. sometimes he's a 43, sometimes at 37. i said it leading up to the 2818 commonwealth pan. that manse 60% of americans don't like him, democrats are going to do welfare reform. it's the same thing in '20. he's a 40% president. again,ly say because very few people in the media picked it up in 2016, now they think he has magic voodoo powers and that he can do anything even trump himself told me the election could have been held on ten days. probably would have lost nine of those ten days. it was just that one day after the comey letter, everything hit perfectly that so everybody should get their sc and span, teak a cold shower, scrub injuries down, 40% president. get rid of those memories. >> don't engage, don't engage. stop. point taken. >> i don't want to hear another word from donny. >> do you want to break? >> yes. >> spic and span and brillo pads are all right for me? >> i want you to stop talking, that's all. >> can we just stop there for one second? does he not -- what's with the beard? >> this is mumford and sons. >> it's sort of a mix of boogie nights and eric falwell jr. >> you can't say the words eric falwell jr. anymore -- >> it what i don't understand is it will be like 99 degrees and they'll be playing baseball atlanta and these kids will have beards down to here. they'll be like burle ives. >> it does not look good on nn. >> it looks pretty good on. >> civil war. >> that's strong. >> mika? >> wait a minute, as we go to brac the "morning joe" book club continues. >> oh! yeah. >> hold on one second. number four yesterday with a bullet. >> remember the song "i'm 18 with a bullet"? >> yeah. >> bill geist! >> it's a memoir. it's my dad. >> we're going to sit down with your dad. >> and we're going to be joined by daniela. >> yeah! >> from an immigrant to best selling author. if you could shut your mouth -- >> say it again. >> i said from undocumented immigrant to dreamer to best selling author, daniela will be joani joining us. >> so cool. so cool everyone's got to listen to mom. when it comes to reducing the sugar in your family's diet, coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org when didwhen i needed ton? 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(indistthat was awful.tering) why are you so good at this? had a coach in high school. really helped me up my game. i had a coach. math. ooh. so, why don't traders have coaches? who says they don't? coach mcadoo! you know, at td ameritrade, we offer free access to coaches and a full education curriculum- just to help you improve your skills. boom! mad skills. education to take your trading to the next level. only with td ameritrade. joining us now, the axios, allen. good morning. >> good morning and happy mother's day friday. >> thanks so much. you're writing about donald trump jr.'s end game. there as some report that donald trump jr. may ignore the subpoena. is that true? >> i think that's true. don jr. has no intention of showing up for congress, we're told. we're told his team believes that would be suicide, it would provoke so many more bob mueller we're told that taking the fifth in writing is a possibility. they haven't ruled that out. and a third option for the bearded don jr., which is the most likely, is some kind of compromise probably where he agrees to answer written questions. >> so i don't understand, i'm confused. why would he plead the fifth amendment because the trump people all during the campaign and during the convention said only guilty people plead the fifth amendment. >> well, as you know, this group is a stickler for consistency. >> oh, my god. >> so so surprising but we saw earlier all the republicans coming out for don jr. don jr. team has run an op here. they said we have a battle plan and we want to send a message to other lawmakers, if you come for don jr. alluded to, six republican coming out and -- a comment that mcconnell made in a luncheon that made him a little lonely yesterday. republicans loudly taking up for don jr. >> out here in the real world if you egg more a subpoena potentially with don jr.? >> well, an p had a, there is in the basement a vault and that's going to be the dilemma here is what can congress actually do? and this is the huge gamble the trump trags is teak and they're willing to risk a supreme court fight to just say no to all these requests, demands, subpoenas, requirements. >> mike allen, on a happy friday. happen ho day still with us we have national affairs analyst for mbc news and msnbc, and the host saturday night poll tex on nbc -- i'm still getting my head around the use the pa teen a of the saturday night, it's a little bit more fun. >> is that a dip, by the way? >> that's rough. >> there's a lot working there. but i'm kind of a saturday night guy. that's kind of where it's at. >> it's better than the alternative where. >> well, i don't know. >> chuck todd still does not talk to me because remember i used toies the snrnl remember the guy on ed sullivan, i got him on. >> all right, saturday night politics. >> that's even beyond me. have i no idea what he's asking about. >> snp -- >> got jim cramer talking politics. >> why don't you do milton burl jokes? >> welfare reform i have to say this, i do like the show. >> coming from you, other than my mother, my harsh eest peter baker, professor of history at tulane and an msnbc contributor, kimberly atkins, she was covering red sox to the white house yesterday. i didn't like it opini opinionliverpool football, that is baseball. everybody who talked to beat writers say these player have been able to sort through this in their individual choices and they're handling this okay in the locker room, which i believe because alex coria in an incredible manager. that shid said in between twon and i don't understand for the life of me why one white guy couldn't have stayed back and if alex cora wanted to ask somebody else to go, i don't and i don't understand how they allowed that to happen and how that's not going to impact the team moving toward. >> yeah, look this is a microcosm of ma pa nab and to be fair, dustin pedroia was not there. i don't know why. he did not give a reason why he did not go. i don't know if it was in solidarity with players who weren't going or if it because he's tending to himself injury. but it was a very clear le racially divided scene. and in the past -- i remember he when he sort of thrives on this. so to be there and to be surrounded by the mostly white players of the boston red sox didn't seem to be a problem for him at all. and i think that worsened that optic. i this that you're right, joe, that the organization tried to give the players the latitude they needed to make the decision that was best for them, but at the same time, after the ceremony, tom warner, the chairman of the red sox said that he didn't see this as racial division and i just think that that's really -- >> that's crazy. >> i don't see how he could say that, how he could not see that. >> i usually am the one you guys make fun of for not knowing enough about sports. i've been watching you coach baseball. i know enough about what it is to be a member of a team. if one member of the team or two or three, why would anybody on that team go? isn't it all about unity? >> the flip side is it the guys who did get g, look, if it's a ch chan. >> i don't think that applies. the reasons why these players didn't go are so much more important than getting a free trip to the white house. come on! stick with your team. >> this is it why there are some difficult parts of this. willie, i'm not going to tell a 23-year-old kid from texas that may never go to the chance to go to white house guantanamo bay you've got who is going to tell a 21-year-old kid who gets his one chance to go to the white house, no, you can't go. this is on a level that we can't even imagine but, man, it's about the unit. it's about the team. it like i don't care if you're the i even teach it with young kid. you say one thing bad about your teammate, you're going to hear from me and then you're going to sit on the bench. we're a family. we're a unit. i don't know how this happened. ot altuve. he went for the astros. he didn't want to go. there's not one white guy on that team that said you know what, hey, hey tom, john, can you get me the white house like three or four months from now, maybe i'll get a tour? i'm going to stay back with the guys who are uncomfortable. come on, this is the most racist president certainly in our life time. you can talk about charlottesville, can you talk about what he said about hispanics, what he said about puerto ricans. he's called hispanic breeders. also, there's a player on the team i've always loved. when asked why he was going, he said i was born in america, i'm going to die in america, i'm going to live in america my entire life. guess what? big pap irk, weren't born in america from a i said i went in the locker room, here is why i'm not going. i don't think think this government or this prz has done the right this evening by puerto rico. that's why i'm not going. so i don't think he went in and said because i'm not going, you can't go either. i think he presented the case and said you have to work. >> a team separate anywhere is not good. >> kimberly, that's what we all been hearing it certainly decision, b are it was left to be a personal decision to each of these players, but it's also very complicated. let's say, for example, all the teams said some of the players are uncomfortable going, then maybe can will. that would have. and the president didn't even mention it during the ceremony. i was sure he was going to say something about puerto rico, but he didn't. and in that sense it kept the red sox out of the center of this as much as they could be. it already -- they're already in the center just by what happened. but this could have been worse and i think that is one thing that i think the players considered. >> and walter isaacson, the guy who should have been manager of the year who was just absolutely extraordinary last year, alex cora, and he was extraordinary because he had such a bond with his mayors. he also made every call right down the stretch. but alex cora not on is from puerto rico, that's been his issue. he's used the success of the red sox to raise money for the preekian people and to bring relief too -- i'm know health struggle about that, i don't know if you were but which is once given divide us even more on racial lines and, it's the opposite of a what a president is supposed to do for or society. those are supposed to be the healingon it's hp it the postway this couldit's a bigger thing than just a red sox. reseg dpating and people are do if what if you're an hispanic player for the red sox and donald trump has called all hispanics breeders and has attacked mexicans and has called -- >> i think we can agree on this. pt and in where some of has to players come from be s sharr hotsville, that's an if you who will to the and miling with the pmtd where an individual person refused to come to ut white house, but we've never seen anything like this when rue to and if and why the now it's become a poll it can moment. it's almost inevitable. it hard to oo until. the white house was discussing the invipation and having them all out there and the whole team didn't go. there was apparently no question in the team's mind they were going to go to white house. >> you're talking about a 23-year-old wheat player who might have his first chance to go to the white house and up got let him have first. attorney, who love to go to the white house but just. >> hold on, hold on. >> you got to stick with the key. >> mika, that's easy for somebody who is playing in the white house at 9 years old. for a lot of people, this is their one chance. i can tell you the guy from the red neck riviera, the first time i walked in the white house, who knows so. on think i'm hopeful that someone look and and said look why is i'd really like to go tos would is that okay with you guys? >> no. >> 40% president, these things add up. you feel that if. these are a group of like guy when it comes to that, that's not what this country wants. i believe these hundreds and hundreds of on be lots up where form vice president jo. bernie sanders is at 1818% to willie' willie's,(especially national polls or butte oo contests o most of the people who are going to be budding the nobody, if are in it looks look snochl i think more importantly for the long run, south carolina, where a lot plaque. in they like joe biden and they want to vote for him. >> i was surprised last night fb there (as everybody sad last night, who p it's nice to know there's somebody who who can be more of a healer. and his flaws tend to had beens strns. somebody said he made a gaffe i think look it's also good that it's not like last time and. nm and there p eight have prom and he emerges. so i think is if snbl. >> what is the energy? what's the vibe around joe biden? ? are there other candidates aside from best in a ult ultima challengers in that part of the country? >> i think all of the candidates have been so it is an important place in roonlon is that not on there. n and elizabeth warren who are not only well-none commodities to new hampshire, they areand at the aim siem with the california prime rip moved up, that are it that perhaps is will oo to say we don't know if new hampshire hold same way and is a sfrb so at this particular moment. it with fwh what are you looking at? >> sure. sfm f a better o roarke. that you will hoosen sfchlt who might not want biden or who might be open to other democratic candidates will have an opportunity to see them. biden hasn't run good campaigns in the past but it's very soft, very early. talk to us again in two or three monies with i. >> will you've spent time with jill bite i don't know, the piet nofb -- just how normal she seems compared to the current occupants of the white house. there you do not get the sense talking to her that she spent eight years in wam as and you think of it this way and it kind remarkable. the baum's left and a will the of the they had ten ma and receipt now fwn everything they've been through and a, number one, you tonight see that in jel at all if. and, secondly, after all they've been through, they want to go back. they want to go back and stayf instead looking at atbe if you want to be president united states, you have to live the yob look be? >>. beijing is promising necessary count are measures. and up next being nor and 200 candidate amy globe sharr will the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " we'll be right back. nothing says summer like a beach trip, so let's promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this: surf's up. earn a fifty-dollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or.. badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com (woman) you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. 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( ♪ ) only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol®. for fast pain relief. ♪ run with us. on a john deere z500 series mower. built to mow better, faster. because sometimes... when you take a look around... you notice... your grass is long... your time is short... and there's no turning back. ♪ ♪ nothing runs like a deere™. run with us. visit your john deere dealer today, to test drive a z500 or z700 series ztrak™ mower. it's an attempt to humor. >>. >> it's contemptible. >> this is a whole new low. >> here's my punch line. i committed perjury. i lied to congress! i don't really get that. but i don't get barr. >> i don't get barr. . really i don't get republicans circling congress and he thinks it funny. >> and you wouldn't say anything. had joining us a member of the senate judiciary committee and democratic candidate, senator amy clob sharr. these are times like we've never sen before, look at the attorney general there woke about being held in contempt. you'd think about when he said that job is different. no, he's different. he's the one that's different in how he's handling this yoob. because you think it was the law is king and he has shown a complete disrespect for the law in therms of not my favorite one was i asked him if mueller had reviewed the tax returns and the financial documents for the president, and he said, well, i don't know. i said you don't know? you're the attorney general. and he said, well, go and ask so let talk about nugs al pa others believe we're in constitutional crisis. the executive branch is showing contempt i think both legally and just as a matter of fact towards the legislative branch. um, how does the legislative branch, how do the judiciary committees in the house and senate, how does the oversight committee in the house get the white house to let you all do what the constitution provides you're supposed to do? >> we have thold them accountable. it will end up in court. as has been pointed out, they're the ones that are pushing us to this constitutional crisis. we have equal branches of government. we have the right to issues these subpoenas. and when they don't show up for the subpoenas, then they're violating the law. >> and you can can take them to court. they can be held in contempt but it was five years before eric holder and the obama administration had to respond. how does this get expedited so congress can move more quickly and get the information that americans need? because five years from now, it does us no good. >> when you look at it, democrats control the house. you can fine people if they don't show up. the house has control, the power of the purse over this administration. so they do have some control and then we have the power of the people. the people showed in the last election they wanted to have a check and balance on this president, that they didn't want him doing unlawful tings, that they want someone in the white house who can tell the truth and obey the law. i think there's leverage we can push to get them to obey the law. the bottom line is this isn't a joke. this is about our constitution and our democracy. >> a couple of days ago the majority leader mcmick california the attorney general has said i gave you the 0 how are you viewing the outcome of the mueller report? do you believe there's more to know about it or do you accept the top line conclusion in volume one that even bob mueller himself said there was no conspiracy between the campaign and the russian government? >> this is why we need to hear from bob mueller. they didn't use tanks or missiles but they used the compute and rahal flm and hacked into one candidate's campaign. it was 2020. this and people know we're supposed to have this say in our democracy, not a foreign government. that's why this is way beyond what's going on, the fights in congress about subpoenas. this is also about why can't we protect our election with backup paper ballots there? and all that money and although reese but report is what showed us the depth of what happened, that they actually tried it hack into every state's election equipment, that they actually went in with propaganda and they hacked into a candidate's basic equipment and got all the emails out of their campaign. they're going to try too do it again. that's why you and have i to ask mitch mcconnell and the country should be asking him is why is he stops these bipartisan measures going forward? >> so the ultimate may nk. >> you're running. how -- the fact that at the moment the three top candidates on both side, republican and democrat are three white guys in their 70 and yet there are four win running on the crack the way women are breaking through and the way we'd like them to. >> the three women are usually in the top eight candidates, three of us. we may not be at the top but that's pretty significant when you look at the entire field of 20-some people. i also think that this is just the beginning. a peanut farmer from georgia at this point had something look i'm from stats that in pb then you have to show hugh you're going to pay for them. i'm out there talking about that. we have an operation that's grow and growing. the fact that the guys are up front, the guys were better known from the beginning and i always say may the best rom within. >> and you've got a plan and you're making it a prim rye focus. for me health care is about everything from bringing premiums down to paying for pharmaceuticals. but this mental health addiction issue is personal. my dad when i was growing up had two dwis. when i was in ms jail or strach and in his words, he was pursued by grace. that meant his faith and and he's in assisted living and he told me a few months ago it's hard to get a drink around here anyway. but his a&m kwoup right to be pursued by grace. when you look at what's happening with mental health especially, we went from state mental health issues to community based but the money and the bed didn't follow. and we have a but also just people that we have seen the veterans' suicide rate now is three times the average of others in the country. the way you get at it is counselors in the schools, you get at it with people that people can go to. people say to me, i just don't know railroad railroad got addicted to opioids when she was sick and then turned fichl and right before she died, she said to her mom, "mama, is isn't my fault. . mama, i just got and $100 billion we can bring in divided between two sent tax on the opioids, a mill i fwrn and you have give of that they can get beyond it. talk about pursued by grace, that's an skrord story. i was talking to can i had to roo mind my kids, i said there was a time that he was such a joke because of, you know, his addiction and, you know, hollywood, it was just like considered him a joke and he was burned out and he was on drugs and he was an alcoholic and all of these things and it is -- i mean, it's amazing how he's turned his life around and how that does happen. there is hope all over the re as the support points out, it cut. i want to ask you about the state of minnesota, which went for hillary clinton but just by a whis consider arewhat do so the aboutthey thought, well, we need some change now and he's going o have o nrp they have seen pro from the trade deficit is at $891 billion, the biggest one we've seen in history. so while i hope he gets back to the negotiating table and get things done, they are struggling and we're talking about people in my rural state who voted for him and voted for me. they are people that may not agree with everything you say but they want to make sure you've got their back. and right now they are questioning that in a big, big way. >> as of eight hours ago, the taf so they do blame him for chaos. and that is bring them together and be look this is who if pb the des moines register poles about what specifics are you giving them in terms of your policy and the fuss about whether you support the new green deal, has that muddied the waters because there are a lot of other proposals out there that people should be focused on? >> no, they're focused on the pab she moo in and had horse plaster in the walls and now it flooded from a riff that's two and a half mile away, in inwhere they know that climate chang isn't happening in a had been can frmt the bridging back the clean power rules, doing something on gas mileage and ard fmt so i think that the votes are are seeing that this is a major snchl. i was lucky enough to golf with a guy who is is a very conservative republican, probably never voted for a democrat in his life and one. four people golfing said something about climate change and started to work and i'm a risk management guy hmm pao it. . you look at the positions in the last decade and you'd be a fool snm for his insurance company tells him climate change is not only real, it getting worse by the year. >> and people seep it in their home insurance rate that saed to ged this nm that's across the station. >> so willie and i were talking to you as you were come on. . and preaching to the choir, we have a lot rrch rochester to a sprooz harr and i love that somebody from minnesota went on fobs news and took your message to viewers who can be persuaded. those of us in our little bubbles go organization, no, conservatives and liberals, please explain it me how you voted for barack obama in '0le and donald trump in 2016. there are persuadables who watch fox news. >> exactly. it was like being a vikings fan on limbo field. but i it it because thousand and that is going not just where it's comfortable but when there's just no other way can you govern. when you look at the president, i'm going to preek dwro tonight. look at what he did when he was in florida. whether there are north dakota moots, we come fogt. that's we do. and this president has chosen not to take that rug. i'm telling youso you don't want to talk about the twins who twice won the series. >> no, you can't step on my line. >> oh, okay. i thought i wassin stant go ahead. >> oh, my god. >> willie, we only talk about baseball teams in two cities, but if we were to break that hard-and-fast rule, we'd have to talk about the minnesota twins right now, the second best record in baseball. . they are on fire. and the senator's right, a pretty storied history there. >> they are hot right now. one of the best teams in baseball. i had the pleasure, senator, of taking my son to spring training and guess what -- mahay, fans, make it the hall of. >> up next. thank you. the co-author of my new book daniela pierre-braf oaf share in "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ this is big. >> it's so exciting. it really is. >> top ten book. >> millennial women are entering the u.s. job market at the fastest rate seen in almost 19 years. the portion of young women graduating with higher education degrees is up five points to almost 43% according to the census and women between the ages of 25 and 34 are responsible for 86% of growth among prime working age women and 46% of growth in the prime age labor pool. but despite this, many young women find it hard to start and grow their careers. there's a lot of conflicting messages. in. >>ing -- joining us now, daniela bravo and she has an incredible story, joe. we embarked on this journey together really inspired by her and she had worked for us for two years before this came to be. >> as you have said, an extraordinary story from a dreamer to producer to a best selling author. >> so i'll start it off. so you were working for us as a script runner. >> and i noticed you were efficient about your job i really did. >> what was her nickname? aderol. and i asked her her story and she told me the -- >> do you know the story? >> i know the outlines of it. >> she four siblings, undocumented immigrant, not a lot of money and she wanted to break out and give back and do something so she applied for jobs in new york city and this is the part i have to say because daniela,but she lied and said she lived in new york city. why? because she was worried where she lived would deter them from giving her the job interview and she got one call and they said, can you be here tomorrow? and she thought, how do i get there? but absolutely. and take it from there. how did you get there? >> so i ended up getting an on 18-hour bus ride because at the time i didn't have status. so i couldn't drive or get on a plane so i ended up getting on an 18-hour bus ride, nine stops through the night. got to port authority and cleaned up and made it for the interview in time. got to new york city, we know this is an expensive city to live in and i had four jobs. i worked for diddy unpaid internship. >> by the way, how cool, we just heard that story, but somebody with an organization tweeted out their congratulations for you being a best selling author. that's incredible. >> and dsm is a contributor in our book and she's a fearless leader. i walked dogs during my lunch break, i was a club promotor and i worked at a bar. i did anything that i could to be able to get that opportunity because it was unpaid. >> that opportunity was just the beginning because then she becomes a page at nbc. two years later she's telling me this story and she's like i want to create access bah i didn't have access and i thought, that's great. you want to create access? i first everybody to meet you and to tell this story and give young women advice for the first phase of that are lives because it is about being scrappy. starting over one, two, three times, it's the first, the second and the third job that are really important and as you know, the data shows that young women start off with pay that is less to their male counter parts and they never catch up so this book that we put together with all the research really helps women start off strong. sfa and katty, you've written about the confidence code. you talk to young women about that all the time. this is an extraordinary story and it looks like somebody had confidence. >> somebody clearly had confidence but you had to work really hard to get it. all of those jobs you were doing just to pay the rent, it's almost more than anybody should have to do. you should not have to be working five jobs, right, in order to pay your rent but you do and you started out like that. so many women enter the work force and the surveys show they get into the work force and they're so full of confidence and they get into the work force and they' very few women at the top and they don't have role models and they look up and say wow, i'm never going to make it. maybe if you're in a position where you have to be scrappy, you have to take a 19-hour bus ride, that makes you realize i went through those challenges, got on that bus from ohio, i got the job with p. diddy, that should inspire confidence if nothing else does. >> you are such an example. i ran an agency for 30 years most run by women and i watched even the the most successful women had trouble pounding the table, i want a raise, when i see you and your peers i start changing that and finally, getting to the point where you know your value, being able to say i'm worth it, the same intense of entitlement that men have. i see it in you and i feel it in you and it's amazing. >> i have to be honest, i didn't know the details of the story. i knew the broad outlines but it all makes total sense now. she's so good at her job. she has been since the day she got here and when you hear all the stereo types about millennials being lazy playing call of duty, meet daniela and by the way, meet all the people who work on our staff, meet all the people in this building who wake up at midnight and come in and hustle. so my question is, given your journey, there are young women out there watching this right now thinking okay, maybe i can do it. what do you say to them? what's your advice? >> yeah, keep fighting and make sure if those opportunities aren't immediately available to you, if you don't see people that reflect your background or you don't have a road map, make those opportunities for yourself and be creative. you know, i was in a marginalized community. i felt like i didn't belong. i lived in the shadows for most of my life. when you come from a marginalized community, you internalize those feelings of angst but i was able to turn it into something positive for myself for sort of a sense of i can do this and taking all of the noes and actually seeing all the possible yeses that can come from them. >> and to be undocumented immigrant in lima, ohio and ultimately a dreamer and now no the moment, this is by the way, the american dream. and in this book we got so much for young women that will walk them through from getting your foot in door, negotiating job interview skills, building your professional brand, we did it together and it's going to help so many other women. great end to an incredible story. >> congratulations. >> all right. the book is "earn it." you can get a copy at know your value.com. and still ahead, in the 2016 primaries bernie sanders swept new hampshire as an underdog. polling shows a very different story. we'll dig into the new numbers, plus, national security meetings are typically held in the white situation room but we're learning details about an unusual meeting held at the cia headquarters last month. we'll have new reporting on that. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. g "mo" we're back in two minutes. over. hi, what's this social security alert? 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[bird speaking] my social security number is... 8- 7- 5 dash okay, i see. [bird laughing] is that your daughter? no, it's a macaw. and his name is timothy. timmy, want a cracker? timmy, do you want a cracker? [bird speaking] what do you think, kevin? no. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts. [horn honks] man this is what i feel like when i wear regular shoes, cramped and uncomfortable. we can arrange a little upgrade. which is why i wear skechers... wide fit shoes. they have extra room throughout. they're like a luxury ride for my feet. try skechers wide fit shoes. theand i don't addury trup the years.s. but what i do count on... is boost® delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink has 20 grams of protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein. be up for life. how much are you worth right now as you're sitting right here? >> zero idea, david. it depends on what's happening in the world and the market. >> let's back to the assessment of your wealth for a second. if you had to liquidate, if you decided i'm going somewhere else i'm going to live in a trailer and you wanted to sell off everything, how big would that check be that you put in your pocket when you headed west. >> i hate to disappoint but i have zero idea. how come this seat is so low? >> give us a figure that we might ponder here. >> you'll never get it out of me, david. donald trump is here. you're on the cover of the new issue of people magazine. i don't know why you're being so goofy about this. it says on the cover you're a billionaire. >> it does say that? if it says it i would have to believe it. >> it was the go-go 80s but the direction was going down. that's the "new york times" take. and that's not an accomplishment. that's like bad. welcome back to mrch. it's friday, may 10th along with joe, willie and me we have national affairs analyst jon heilema heilemann. ka ka katty kay, the host of saturday night politics. again, the name, saturday night politics. >> not since "saturday night live requested hnight live" has a show been so dominant. >> i mean, we could -- anyhow, at 12:01 this morning, the tariff rate on $200 billion worth of chinese goods was raised from 10% to 25%. >> wow. >> china's commerce ministry says it will retaliate with quote, necessary counter measures without elaborating. >> katty, what's the impact? >> the impact on american consumers, they're already seeing $100 an item raise if you want to buy a dishwasher it's more expensive because of these tariffs so add the fact that we've gone from $100 billion worth of goods the $250 billion worth of goods and every time there's a hike in tariff you see a tax on the things that are imported from china. the president yesterday said it's the chinese that are paying for these tariffs, it's largely not the case. it's the american farmers because the chinese retaliate with taxes on american farming product products and then the government pays them money in order to keep them happy. >> this is the equivalent of owning the libs, like steven miller owns the libs by buying like $100 worth of sushi and then having the owner say something negative to him and him throwing away the sushi in front of them before he ate the $100 sushi. it's sort of shooting yourself in the foot. as steven miller thought he was -- he's giving them $100, they insult hill and then they throw it away to own the libs. well, he's out $100. they don't care. >> the main thing about that is it's no good for anybody. no good for anybody. nobody's winning in that story. >> but here you have people that are going to be cheering in the audiences in the next rally going yeah, we're tough. usa. >> as everything they buy in walmart, everything they buy in target, everything they buy everywhere goes up. own the chinese yeah, that's awesome. it's not hurting the chinese. it's hurting you, the consumer. >> there would be a grand irony if the one thing that trump has had going -- really has going for him, heading into re-election now as we all acknowledge, a strong economy. he inherited in large part from barack obama. if he manages to -- all he has to do is talk about the economy and not mess it up if by doing the things that he's talked about so long getting in a trade war with china, he manages to screw up the one strong card in his hand. >> there are a lot of critics of donald trump who do agree that america had to get tougher on china and that their practices were massive ily disadvantaging not just american companies but european companies as well. is it going to produce the kinds of results he wants or does it get the chinese walk away from the table which is what we've seen. >> there's a problem there to be dealt with. this is not a consensus on how to handle it. >> including his own economic advisors don't believe tariffs are a good idea. this is the power of donald trump's personalty and them caving to what he wants. >> republicans used to be against tariffs, some still are so it's interesting but the biggest problem is, mika, that your father knew this better than anybody. when you deal with the chinese you can't be a day trader. i mean, it took -- yes, we always tell the funny story about you know, the dinner at your house with opening of china, but that took years. it took going over there and coming back and it was never perfect. then your dad had to go and it took a long time you can't day trade against the chinese. they think in terms of decades, in terms of centuries, donald trump literally thinks in terms of minutes. >> bernie sanders won the 2016 new hampshire primary with 60% of the vote but a new poll shows former vice president joe biden doubles sanders' support in his neighboring state. biden takes 36% to sanders to 18% with pete buttgieg back at 9 presidentth president and elizabeth warren at 10%. klobuchar and beto o'rourke in a three way tie for sixth place with 2%. what do you think of those numbers. >> so leave that up for just a minute and think about if you're somebody other than joe biden or bernie sanders at this point. buttgieg has that first, he's up with the contenders in the second tier, but joe biden isn't just winning this idea of a national referendum. you look inside these polls, new hampshire 18 points. iowa 20 points. south carolina, massive leads for joe biden. we'll stipulate again, long way to go before primaries, but boy, what an impressive launch. >> yeah, the driving force beyond anything, i won't be a close second or third is who can beat trump. there's so much discussion of left brain issues on the kitchen table which are real but what's going to trump everything is how do we get this guy out of office. as far as your question, some of the lower folks, they're up against some of the media self-fulfilling prophesy. you get three and four and five times the amount of media which becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. so they need i think what cory booker did this week, staking ground on gunds, they need to find something -- even if it's not the end issue that's going to get them elected but if joe biden does not trip over himself i think he also has the trump benefit of people wanted trump so badly they were willing to let things slide off of him so all the people that people are going to stick to joe, the old credit card stuff, anita hill, i think a lot of people will let the left brain side stuff go and kind of dismiss it because they want it so bad. >> you've covered these things really closely. you look at all of these candidates. if you're sitziting there 20 points ahead. you've got a field of 2022, are you really going to be the one at 4% who decides you're going to go out in a flame of glory attacking joe biden? no, i mean, it's basically bernie -- bernie can do it i guess, but it seems to me that joe biden. we've said it before, we'll say it again. joe biden's biggest challenge is joe biden. if he stays on script, if he continues to do the sort of things he does. he's been doing over the past couple week, it's going and yeah, it's early. we'll say it. it's going to be difficult to catch a guy with a 20-point lead. he's got to give the rest of the field help. >> look, i don't mean to be like the contrary to the table. i think biden's idea is obviously the case and if he performs well and doesn't make mistakes and everything stays as now. in 2008 barack obama was behind in every poll by more than this later in the race. she was ahead by 30 points around labor day, so one of the issues is that for a lot of these candidates there's eight who are above 1%. for a lot of those candidates most democratic voters do not know who they have. they have not been next to each other on a stage. bernie sanders and joe biden is who everyone knows. itis not surprising they would be this far ahead and there's no doubt that people look at biden and say that's a guy who can take on trump but i think they have not evaluated the others on that same metric. if that's the only thing they care about and certainly can you envision the person standing next to donald trump. they've not seen pete buttgieg, they've not seen beto o'rourke on a debate stage. they're going to be up there but that was the case in 2008 too. that was a big field. barack obama is a different character. all i'm just going to say, there's no doubt joe biden is the clear front runner and in that respect it is his race to lose. on the other hand, there are a lot of debates and a lot of miles. it's not just the throw away line. most of these candidates are not known by these democrats they couldn't tell you anything about amy klobuchar and they're going to learn a lot about her in the next nine months. >> we live in a different age than we did years ago when jimmy carter could go start knocking on doors. oh, i didn't know who this guy was. i really like him. how many million people saw amy klobuchar during the kavanaugh hearings? how many people saw cory booker? how many people know who elizabeth warren is? we live in a different age. kamala harris, if you're voting in a democratic primary, chances are really good you have seen all of these candidates so i think michael bennett is the exception. i think maybe some people don't exactly know who michael bennett is. mayor pete, obviously came out of nowhere and has a lot of excitement behind him, but i just think this year it's going to be very difficult. >> still ahead on "morning joe," two big moves for the military. president trump looks to fill the top job in the pentagon for the long-term as his administration steps up the pressure on iran. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. incomparable design makes it beautiful. state of the art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2019 nx 300 for $359 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. wearing powerful sunscreen? yes! neutrogena® ultra sheer. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®. hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs... prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams. noso let's promote ourke mosummer travel dealamirez!!! on choicehotels.com like this: surf's up. earn a fifty-dollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or.. badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com when i needed to create a better visitor experience. improve our workflow. attract new customers. that's when fastsigns recommended fleet graphics. yeah, and now business is rolling in. get started at fastsigns.com. in the transportation industry without knowing firsthandness the unique challenges in that sector? coming out here, seeing the infrastructure firsthand, we can make better informed investment decisions. that's why i go beyond the numbers. that have made the rx the leading luxury suv of all time. lease the 2019 rx 350 for $399 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. new details about what's being described as an unusual meeting between some of president trump's top intelligence diplomatic and military advisors convene by the national security advisor john bolton. according to 6 current u.s. officials that bolton gathered cia director, acting defense secretary, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, secretary of state mike pompeo and director of national intelligence dan coats for a 7:00 a.m. meeting last week at cia headquartersments those are officials say national security meetings typically are held in the white house situation room and that it is extremely rare for white house officials to athe meets at cia headquarters. let's bring in carol lee. okay. fill in the blanks on this if you would. why was this so significant and what exactly were they talking about over at cia headquarters. >> well, we know that it was significant because this is just not how these meetings are typically held. usually they happen as you mention in the situation room in the white house. it's a secure meeting room, they can review all sorts of very classified and highly sensitive materials there. so it raised some eye yous becau -- eyebrows and this happened on april 29th early in the morning. and it was led by national security advisor john bolton and i think that you can't sort of underestimate why him overseeing this meeting has gotten people's attention because obviously he is ad hoc and he has advocated regime change in iran so they wouldn't say exactly what was discussed in this meeting. we were told it did not have anything to do with the intelligence that led to a couple days later the decision to move a carrier into the persian gulf because of intelligence that iran was perhaps going to -- had told its proxies in the region that it could attack military members who were in the region, but there were two sort of reasons why some former officials told us this might happen and sometimes when the cia wants to brief on a covert operation they'll do it on their home turf. and that could mean, you know, an operation that's already taken place or an operation that they're looking for some new sort of authorization for. so that's one -- one reason and then the other reason is, there could be some disagreement on intelligence and this is where it gets a little tricky is you know, former vice president dick cheney used to go to cia headquarters to challenge analysts on the intelligence and sometimes if there's disagreement on intelligence you could have a meeting there. >> so when a source calls you on something like this generally or typically or sometimes it means they have concerns about the meeting. was there concern about what was discussed inside that meeting? in other words, that something was afoot with iran from the united states? >> yeah, i think there's more concern -- the concerns are more about you know, what's the path here? what's the end game? is this sort of another step towards national security advisor by a national security advisor who wants to go to war with iran, what does it mean? and so there were a number of questions people had. it wasn't negsly cessarily -- obviously iran is a threat and wants to create mischief and has its eyes on americans but there's the flip side of that is that there's growing concern that this is a white house that's on a march to some sort of military confrontation with iran and that has a whole host of other problems and this could be another piece of whatever case they might want to make to that end. >> so one of the people in that room was acting defense secretary. you have some more reporting for us this morning about patrick shanahan although he will be nominated by president trump to be the defense secretary, not president trump's first choice and maybe a round of golf with lindsey graham changed that. >> yeah, you know, president trump deliberated for so long on this that he wound up -- some of shanahan's critics including lindsey graham wound up coming around and said nominate somebody. this has been empty for so long. you have the chairman of the armed services committee in the senate saying you can't have an acting title and accomplish anything in this job. you have to pick somebody and the president had gone back and forth on this and really was unsure about it in part because he felt like shanahan doesn't sort of, you know, act the part of defense secretary. he doesn't have a very strong presence, you know, in person and perhaps more importantly for president trump on television and so he was really unsure but also maybe didn't want to pull hem out because he was already there and so he -- this has been weeks and finally he decided to go with it yesterday. >> all right. thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," congressional democrats say the country is in a constitutional crisis. is house speaker agrees. >> yes, i do agree with chairman nadler because the administration has decided that they are not going to honor their oath of office. >> we'll talk about that just ahead on "morning joe." ust 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(laughter) oh wow! woman : there's something for all of us. man 2: it's time to upgrade. get 0% financing for 72 months on this all-new silverado. or get a total value of over $9,000 when you finance with gm financial. find new roads at your local chevy dealer. noso let's promote ourke summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this: surf's up. earn a fifty-dollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or.. badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com ♪ ♪ how far you travel is up to you. how comfortable you travel is up to us. fly emirates. fly better. how comfortable you travel is up to us. you'll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day.ou? complicated relationship with milk? pour on the lactaid, 100% real milk, just without that annoying lactose. mmm, that's good. the latest inisn't just a store.ty it's a save more with a new kind of wireless network store. it's a look what your wifi can do now store. a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. some days you have to decide impeach or nothing. no, it's not that. it's a path that is producing results and gathering information and some of that information is that this administration wants to have a constitutional crisis because they do not respect the oath of office that they take to protect and defend the constitution -- to support the constitution of the united states. >> all right. there's nancy pelosi. and with us now we've got the editor of commentary magazine, host of msnbc's politics nation reverend al sharpton and an msnbc contributor. karine jean pierre. and where have you been? >> i've been writing a book. >> about me? who are you writing a book about? >> it's going to be about the republican party and its slow march toward donald trump and whatever come next. >> so this is like "gone with the wind." i hope you wait for the final scene where there's no tara to return home to. >> i think it's more like "lost." >> i don't know what to think. >> if it's a book about the republican party there's no really -- it wouldn't really be about you anymore. >> no. >> there was a time. once upon a time such a book would have included a chapter about joe scarborough covering the '94 period. >> i can remember when. so let's talk about more important things right now, reverend al. so joe biden has gone ahead in a lot of polls. we showed a new hampshire show and iowa and new hampshire are so important but when it comes to the democratic primary i don't really look at polls unless it's south carolina because that is where you have an electorate that looks like the democratic electorate that will pick the nominee for the party. he's doing well there. >> he's doing very well. i was in south carolina over the weekend and on the ground people are saying they like biden, they want to see who can beat donald trump. that's the overprevailing sentiment is hearing from people on the ground, black and white. i think kamala harris has got a lot of support there. but i think if biden does well in iowa and new hampshire and can sweep south carolina, he has real traction and the only opponent that he has to worry about is joe biden. he cannot say something or do something that would get in the way of where he's going. and i think that it's going to be very interesting what happens in the debate. >> so can you explain something to those of us in the bubble? the "new york times" did a good service for democrats but for all people interested in politics when they wrote a story talking about how the blue check marks, the sort of bubble that elites live in is separated from the democratic party, the main stream democratic party. as you know, black voters have predominantly voted for democrats for a very long time, but they are conservative in many respects with a small c. i think a lot of elite white opinion shapers on social media and the media don't understand that. >> no, i think they have no clue. the fact of the matter is, you know, my parents were republican until kennedy when i was a kid. >> right. >> blacks voted their interests, but on basic values, very conservative, and very right of center on some issues. many of them -- >> a lot of people shocked in 2008 when black voters in california voted against the same sex marriage initiative. the same day that barack obama got elected president. >> i caught a lot of backlash when i came up with same sex marriages in 2003. i have administrators say i can't come preach in their church. i think that they missed that. we talk in the beltway or we talk on both coasts and don't talk to people in the middle and being that i didn't know we had chapters there, i talked to real people and real people are saying i may want to see this in terms of race and unfairness but i'm not with this and i think that the mistake that a lot of right wingers are making and progressives are making is only talking to themselves in an elite atmosphere and they're not talking to the people and they're going to be surprised when the people vote. >> so noah, help me out here. i don't know if you know it, but i've got a show and i talk about politics for three hours a day and i see things like the rule of law as being extraordinary important. i see things whether it's bill clinton committing perjury or i believe william barr committing perjury it's very important to me. russian interference in the national elections. very important to me. the intel agencies all say it. the mueller report very important to me. but i understand and we just had a poll, can you guys show the poll, that when you talk to democratic voters who have questions in iowa, russia, mueller, none of that shows up on their top ten lists. now, does that mean we should stop talking about it? how do you sort through that? because i know you've been very outspoken too about the importance of the rule of law and some mistakes republicans have made. are we talking to ourselves? >> we are talking to ourselves but it's an important conversation. it's up to us to talk about the value of rule of law and have a retrospective look on 2018. it doesn't affect your pocketbook so most voters aren't going to care about that. they are not. >> reporter: -- very side logical. joe biden is tapping into that in a sense in a very effective way because his campaign while he's put some rhetorical deference, his campaign is restorative. it's not about change, he's not buying into these progressive policies like free college, medicare for all, jobs guarantee, universal basic income. he's come out against some of these things. >> like nancy pelosi, by the way. >> again, when we were talking about twitter which skews to the left and skews progressive and is a little bit more socially activist and progressive activist, joe biden is appealing to what i think is a broader base within the democratic party and the per sepg hception has a the field to perceive them to be the animating force in the democratic party. when the primaries roll on and joe biden demonstrates some strength, i think he'll have some strength, it's going to be a crisis of confidence within the swing of the party. >> so tell me, how do progressive activists balance the need to move the agenda forward and make sure you don't have democrat getting elected that's going to give us eight years of robert ruben economics? which is totally fine for republicans and conservatives, but would not be fine with -- with activists who do energize the democratic party. how do you balance that with the need of giving somebody in office that can stop what donald trump has put into place over the past three years? >> so a couple of things, joe. reverend al actually said this which is what voters care about. right sf they care about their self-interest they care about what are you going to do for me? how are you going to change my life? how are you going to make my life better? and i think that's really key in all of this. it's like what is the big idea, what are the ideas these candidates are going to have to move the country forward? that's how you're going to connect with these voters and i think that's really key and important here, because while we are talking about the rule of law and the constitution and how we're in a crisis because i think we truly are, i agree with nancy pelosi and there's an importance of talking about that and the reason i'll say that is because in 2016 what did we find out that happened in 2016? we found out that a foreign government interfered in our elections and the confidence of voters matter in that. we should get to the bottom of that because it's not just a constitutional crisis, it's a national security crisis so it is important to have that conversation so that we give confidence back to the voters when they go in 2020, but when it comes to the issue, when it comes to how do we move voters, we have to, we must talk about what is important to them and you see that in polls after polls after polls and that's how we win in 2020. >> that issue is still health care. and jeremy peters, i find myself like yoga bara feeling like it's deja vu all over again. the 1990s when i was on the oversight committee we were uncertain about bill clinton selling missile technology to china, transferring it to china because one of his top campaign donors actually wanted that done. he committed perjury in front of the grand jury, all of these -- we had investigations going nonstop and a lot of them were very legitimate investigations, a lot of people in the clinton administration would come up and lie to congress every day and laugh about it while they were doing it. i've been saying that for years. now find myself in the same position where i'm looking at the attorney general of the united states doing that and i want him investigated. i think he should be removed from office, but i remember the more we republicans investigated bill clinton, the higher his numbers went and the more exhausted the american people were. by the end, nobody was listening to us. they were just listening to bill clinton. >> yeah. that's exactly right. and i totally understand the importance many democrats feel to pursue these investigations as a way of holding the president and his cabinet and his former campaign officials to account. the problem is those are the same types of arguments that republicans were making as you point out in the 90s about bill clinton. this idea that you need to cleanse the republic, for the good of the institution and the health of the country and the constitution. you have to go through this process. i think the risk though is that americans get tired of that very quickly. the good news for democrats is they also get very tired of donald trump. it's like which television show do they want to turn off first. and in the case of donald trump, because he is so omnipresent because he's always in your face, on your television, in your twitter feed if that's where you're looking and it's hard not to think about him and that's what some republicans are concerned about. it's something i hear from voters. i was out on a reporting trip earlier this week and people are bringing up that "washington post" story about donald trump's 10,000 lives so there is a certain level of trump fatigue here that has set in. how palpable that will be come 2020 i don't know, but it's a real balancing act, you know, how aggressive these democrats go, because when democrats try to act like republicans they don't usually end upcoming out very well. >> there is an exhaustion factor and of course i always think all things go back to johnny carson who knew well how to play well in the times. he was likable and that's why people let him come into their homes for 20 years, but you know, bill clinton is fascinating, people forget all the things that went on. remember fowler saying it was like a subway? you just put tokens in, go in and give your money and on president's day he had all these people that were from out of the country giving him money. today is today in america that we call president's day. people were going crazy and nobody cared. >> it's totally true. i want to go back to the top of the conversation and ask you, reverend, because we had klobuchar out here and you guys started talking about african american voters in south carolina. one of the things that was true and you ran for president and you know how this is true, there's, you know, the interesting thing about joe biden is if you look at that african american support you dig into these polls. you've got the older african americans who are -- he's got a large lead with and the younger you get the more they are open to other candidates. and one of the things we've seen in the pars is the fact that they're looking for people who can win and so like with obama where clinton had the african american vote until obama won iowa and he was able to win south carolina. talk about that about what -- how these candidates what they need to do over the course of the next nine months before the voting starts to make themselves seem plausible with the most important voting block. >> i think you hit the key. they need to show they can win. they need to show that this is not a symbolic candidacy. i think the biggest challenge for this election for african american candidates, we have two, kamala harris, cory booker, both very, very impressive, both prepared, is we're in a post obama generation. so when i talk to young blacks, you can't just tell them we want a black president. we've done that. now we need the right black president and why you are a winning candidate. and i think that the media has not caught up on there's no novelty anymore to you being black running for president. the novelty is if you represent a train of thought and can connect with the interests of people intergenerational that will be served but the jackie robinson of american politics in the white house has happened already. now who's going to be willie maes and hank aaron? who can win the game, not just who can get in the game. >> yeah, any baseball analogy, i love that. >> you preach to the choir. i know that you understand that. >> i do. and you named my biggest sports hero ever. hank aaron. hank aaron actually while he was chasing babe ruth, i'd always write as a kid to these all stars and they'd, you know, have a stamped response, hank aaron wrote back in the middle of this chase, dear joey, thank you so much for being a fan. best wishes, hank aaron. all class. >> wow. >> hank aaron smoking cigarettes in the on deck circle. i never saw that. >> when does your book come out? >> we're looking early 2020, just in time for the chaos. >> come back next week. we'd love to have you. >> we'll increase the number of geists on this show by 100%. willie sits down with his dad straight ahead on "morning joe." rastight ahead on "morning joe." nothing says summer like a beach trip, so let's promote our summer travel deal on choicehotels.com like this: surf's up. earn a fifty-dollar gift card when you stay just twice this summer. or.. badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com the united explorer card hooks me up. getting more for getting away. traveling lighter. getting settled. rewarded. learn more at theexplorercard.com. so willie, i'm thinking back, we've had, let's see, barack obama on the show of course. my all time favorite billy graham. that was a huge day for me. but there are all these gets that -- >> tom hanks. >> my gosh, doesn't get any bigger than that. you've got to get -- and i'm not -- i don't know how you did it. >> a "morning joe" exclusive. >> actually, no, it started yesterday. >> an nbc exclusive. it's my dad. >> it is a friday morning at 8:44 exclusive. >> that's it. >> never before at 8:44 on this friday morning. >> my dad bill geist who a lot of you know from cbs sunday morning and as a columnist "new york times" is out with a new book. it's called "lakes of the ozarks." he went to work at the lodge in missouri and how that shaped the guy you've seen on tv all these years. >> in the summer of 1950 my father arrived at lake of the ozarks ready to indulge in the pleasures of a mid western vacation paradise. >> and what do you remember about your first time seeing the lake? >> my friend and i thought it was going to be like speedboats and girls in bikinis and being a life guard, whatever, wild. and i got down there and they gave us a couple of shovels and some boots and pointed ustion out to the open air septic system. >> that cess pool was known affectionately as the chili pond. >> did you have protective -- >> no, they didn't have protective anything back then. >> you put like a bandana over your face? >> no, that was considered unmanly. >> for seven summers my dad was an employee of his larger than life uncle ed, an army colonel in world war ii who gave the orders around the lodge. >> he was born to be a big shot. he barked more than he talked. he'd bark orders and drink scotch when he got up from his nap. he drank a lot of scotch. the intimidation was a big thing although whenever they fired somebody they just wouldn't leave so it wasn't real effective. >> he probably forgot he fired them anyway. >> yeah. >> it felt like a million mile from my dad's comparatively sleepy existence back home in champagne, illinois. >> what was it like driving around lake of the ozarks riding shotgun in his big car with him? >> he had two cadillacs a year, convertible in the summer so you feel like you're in a dream. big tires, you're floating so smoothly. i thought it was funny how people must get around in heaven. >> my dad was promoted to bellhop and occasionally was forced into kitchen duty. >> on some nights the chef, we'd go out by the pool and we'd notice he was laid out by the pool. >> had too many? >> he had a lot to drink every day and some days he couldn't make it back to the kitchen. we knew when we saw that we were going to have to do some cooking. >> did you have any experience prior? >> no, they said when the night was over we made it but we didn't have any repeat customers. >> my dad has told the stories of america's strangest characters. an appreciation he first gained at the lake. >> we hadn't been to disney world or any of these places. we saw a five legged deer with nothing to sneeze at and it was -- you know, lots of these places leading up that gave me the strong sense you are not in nantucket. >> larry was a souvenir king. his dream was to give rare ozarks seal doers. >> i didn't realize there were seals. >> i didn't either. he said get youngsters and brown suits. >> the monkeys on bicycles was a big attraction. >> they drove cars. >> all these stories are hilarious but even for me as your son, getting to the end of it i went oh, that's where this all started for him. that's where he fell in love with weird guys and created your sense of humor, but also gave you your career. >> something that lasted my whole life. i can't -- i don't know if that's good or bad. >> it's good. work out pretty well. >> worked out pretty well. >> congrats, dad. love ya. >> love you too. >> that's the first time you two have ever told each other that you love each other. >> let's do it on national television. >> you hear your dad's story and you realize where it all began. he had a quiet life in illinois where his sense of humor and people didn't get it or he wasn't appreciated and he walked through this door into the lake of the ozarks and it led him to meet his wife and his job and his career, and it all began at this place of the ozarks and i think it's great because everybody has some version of lake of the ozarks, where was that place where it all began for you? i'm so proud of my dad. he's had park inson's disease for almost 30 years. this is a book he's been wanting to write for about 40 years. it's wonderful and i'm glad it's out in the world finally. >> the world is and i'm so glad it's out in the world. >> it's in the top ten. doing extremely well. >> it's a fun read and a breezy read and a good summer book. >> and you've got keanu reeves on sunday. up next, president trump tweeted this morning there's no need to rush on a trade deal with china. that appears to be rattling wall street. we're going to be live to the new york stock exchange. we're back in one minute. stock. we're back in one minute rried at my information getting out. why's that? 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[bird laughing] somebody thinks it's hilarious. free social security alerts from discover. somebody thinks it's hilarious. you'll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day.ou? complicated relationship with milk? pour on the lactaid, 100% real milk, just without that annoying lactose. mmm, that's good. what do you look for i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform. yeah, that too. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. everything you want. one low price. td ameritrade. ♪ all the time you walk in my place, that's all we do. time for business with cnbc's sarah eisen. how are the markets reacting to the trade development going on. >> not great. the stock market has been done every day this week. we're a few percentage points lower than we were this time last year. that's because the whole trade war took a turn for the worst. tariffs have increased from 10% to 25% on $200 billion worth of goods. american consumers you can expect to pay more in the coming months, furniture, lighting products, auto marks, vacuum cleaners and the threat is there could be more coming. there's another 300 or so billion dollars worth of product that we buy from china. if things continue to go sour, we could see higher tariff rates on that. now, we are seeing about a 100 point drop at the open here. the reason it's not so extreme is there is still hope on wall street that the talks are going on. the chinese vice premier is still in washington. he was meeting with lighthizer, the trade ambassador, mnuchin, the treasury secretary last night. the talks continue today but president trump in a tweet storm this morning did say there's no rush. well, wall street would like a deal sooner rather than later, and that's very apparent by the n negative action we have seen in stocks. not a great time for uber to go public. more than 75 billion, one of the biggest ipos in u.s. history. >> sarah eisen, thank you so much. what are your thoughts on the trade war, obviously a lot of american workers have wanted this for some time, wanted american politicians to take a tougher stance on trade with china. there are a lot of middle class americans that are going to be hurt by roising tariffs and rising costs. >> what we're seeing is donald trump doesn't have a policy. he has a twitter deck and that is how he is deciding how he's moving forward and it's incredibly dangerous and hurting the very people who put him into office and consumers are going to be paying for this. it's not going to be china paying for the tariffs. it's going to be consumers who are paying for this, and the products are going to cost them more. and it's just another example of how he is just not ready to lead. >> all right. let's bring in right now assistant clinical professor el university school of medicine dr. erik phrasefrasier "the psyy of top talent", so great to see you, doctor, we have -- earlier we had a dreamer on who's now a best selling author. her story proved she had grit. how do you identify that? >> it's clearly illustrated in the book. this personifying the core psychological competent cies of leadership, professional development, and grit, a commitment to long-term goals and there you have it in print. >> i always say with presidential candidates, the past is always prologue, isn't that what you want to look at, look at the candidate's past before hiring them to see, how hard are they going to be working in the future. how successful are they going to be working in the future. how smart are they going to be working in the future? >> psychology we're looking at patterns of leadership, and patterns of personality traits and behaviors and factors that contribute to specific outcomes, so when you look at patterns and find out there's deliberate practices behind them that show these leadership qualities, top talent qualities that personify professional development, and that's what you want to look for in any candidate a government candidate, else candidate, business candidate, millennial workers are asking for this, asking for training, leadership development, professional development, that's featured in harvard business review. all kinds of articles across the board on a daily basis, looking for these patterns. >> i was going to pass it around to the rest of the table, i have to ask you about mindful nks because you talk about mind -- mindfulness, because you talk about mindfulness allot. mika is on her phone a lot practicing mindfulness. whether you want to call it meditation, mindfulness, praying, it's unplugging from your phone, from life. how important is that in figuring out who you are before you figure out, you know, who, you know, how you interact with other people on your team. >> absolutely. so, you know, mindfulness is a research based evidence informed form of relaxation, of gaining control over the physiological system of the body. but in essence, you know, we're all getting a little rusty at being people with the technology and getting unplugged like you were saying, joe, this is important to build attention, and attention allows us to focus on the people in front of us, to connect in a more authentic way, and in that authenticity, we learn about ourselves because we're becoming better listeners, we're being more attentive to conversation and dialogue in a way that exemplifies reciprocity. mindfulness, 5 minutes a day. you can practice this, and you don't need to do it all day long. >> i love what you just said. reciprocity, it's an important word. it's not all about us. >> how important is mentorship and role models in identifying lead leader. >> mentorship, role model, coaching, you were talking about millennial women, there's an article written probably every hour about this generational cohort asking their company leadership for professional development, for the mentoring, for the coaching for personalized learning and these are the concepts that are going to carry through in the next generational cohort where they're demanding it. if they're not going to get it, they're going to walk. salary matters less. mattering matters more to that generation of millennials. >> more along those lines, we talk a lot about the internal conditions, focussing inward, what are the environmental conditions really that foster this top talent. >> there are certain companies that highlight and feature this. if you think about patagonia as a company, wrote the book back in 2005, let my people go surfing, the keyword in the book title, people, organizations are going to create the exogenous environment that's going to promote and enhance professional development on core psychological competencies. >> my question to you is that your book gives pretty good action items on how to improve yourself and your team, and the question is how do you take the insights that you give in your book into a classroom per se, like for teachers and how do they uplift their students and make them kind of reach their potential? >> great question. one of the chapters in my book focuses on growth mindset, right, and what we really are speaking to with growth mindset is this notion of continuous learning. having a passion for learning. having a sense of curiosity. so building lifelong learners in a classroom and teaching environments for teachers themselves and the students they work with, really instilling that inner curiosity to go and discover and learn and maybe depart from some of the core curriculum standards outside of that and enhance the learning experience. >> all right. dr. erik frasier, thank you so much for coming, i have been a big fan for a long time. the psychological of top talent, we greatly appreciate it. dr. eric frasier, that does it for us this morning, except we want to get wisdom, final wisdom for the week from john. the new vampire album is incredible. i can't believe you haven't listened to it. it's incredible. back after three years. i know you loved the band. this record is amazing. they are the talking heads of the new era, i believe. it's an incredible record. >> and also, we're doing some book business here today, really. you have got to write your "lake of the ozarks" version of the god father of soul, james brown. >> the marvin gay story, that was another one. >> you have to get them out there. >> i will do so. >> that does it for us this morning. ste stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. we have a lot to get to this morning and our team of extraordinary reporters will join me with the stories you must know about today. starting with republicans now turning on their own senator, richard burr who's facing criticism f criticism from members of his party for issuing a subpoena to donald trump, jr. >> my son is a good person. my son testified for hoursnd

Transcripts For MSNBCW Up With David Gura 20191215

very wealthy ukrainian. >> are you sure they did that? are you sure they gave it to ukraine? >> well, that's what the word is. >> that's what the word is. plus, new comments from the intelligence and judiciary committees ahead of the house vote to impeach president trump this week. up with me is a. scott bolden, white collar defense attorney and former chair of the national bar association. david corn, washington bureau chief for mother jones and msnbc contributor. matt lopez, for business insider. and dana, columnist for the "washington post" writing the impeachment diary for the "post" these past few weeks. we expect the house of representatives to vote on those two articles of impeachment. ahead of that, there is politics at play. nbc news learned that congressman jeff van drew, one of two democratic lawmakers is expected to leave the democratic party. impeachment is one reason. another is polling. internal polls showed he was highly unlikely to win re-election as a democrat. the "washington post" shows that he met with president trump on friday at the white house. he gave the congressman his blessing. he seemed surprised in a retweet last night. the other democrat who opposed the inquiry is colin peterson of minnesota. a spokesman tells my colleagues he is still deciding if he will be a yea or nay this week. let's discuss the curious ace of the monk man from southern part of new jersey. what do you make of this and how does this change the political arguments as we move to wednesday? >> i don't think it changes the argument much at all. i mean, here is a guy who was facing very likely defeat in a democratic primary. essentially trying to save his seat, to save his political soul. but sacrificed whatever principle he may have. i don't even with assurances from president trump, it's not clear how he gets through a republican primary. this is a guy who has voted for the entire democratic agenda so far. and even if he is able to in the short-term, he will surely not be accepted by the republicans in the long term without a wholesale conversion. i mean, i think it's a little bit unfortunate for the democrats there in essence behaving like republicans and imposing purity tests and drumming people out if they're not toeing the party line. that got republicans into the mess they're in right now. and that's why there are so few republicans in democratic seats. they all just lost their seats. hopefully democrats will not follow that same path. >> matt lopez, let's talk about what this means for the press. a potential conversion. the congressman went to kiss the ring of the president. he's faining surprise. >> as so many before him have come to kiss the ring. i think nancy pelosi knows how to count. it reminds me of that parable in the body, the little lost lamb. you find the one lamb. or the woman who loses one coin and she goes to find the one coin. nancy is not going to find the one coin. she knows how to count votes. go on, kiss the ring, humiliate yourself. donald trump's friends do generally make out well. he never betrays them. so have fun. good luck. >> you see the visual there? how do you start that conversation in the oval office? this democrat -- >> on your knees. >> listen, he walks in, mr. president, they exchange pleasantries. how do you start that conversation when the ultimate end is will you endorse me if i make this move? it won't have an affect on the impeachment? >> you have giant hands, sir. >> i enjoyed my stay at the trump hotel. if you don't say that, nothing will happen. >> one vote out of 435 votes. i agree with dana, i don't think it makes any different in politics. i don't think he was drummed out. he is choosing to go. as you refer to, people who sign up with trump in the end don't tend to do too well. he should have a conversation with paul manafort, roger stone, michael cohen. how many republicans now are retiring rather than going through another election? dozens. he should talk to those people. >> dana -- go ahead here, scott. >> there's something else going on here. >> sure. >> in my brief history of this life of mine, when you have these conversions, when you switch parties for political survival, they tend not to work. if you look at arlen "spectrsp . you represent this district or what have you, he's in no man's land. he has three republican challengers who have been life long republicans, as dana said. he has to find a place. i don't know if he has a place on the democratic side. maybe he should convert to the independent. . >> he becomes the man of the hour for just an hour. you wrote the impeachment diary the last few weeks. probably too much time. >> too much time. . >> but who are you watching here? i mentioned eight mod rats on the fence. who is going to be voting for this and who is not going to be? they are adamant they're not whipping votes ahead of this vote on wednesday. >> no. that's as it should be. van drew situation probably says to the other moderates, if you think you're going to -- yeah, it's a tough vote. if you think you will save your hide by voting for impeachment, maybe you will get a primary challenge. but at the very least, the democratic activist that you need to be out knocking on doors for you will not be interested. setting aside the morality of the thing as a sheer political calculation they are saying, i'm going to take a hit either way. i might as well just follow my conscience. and i expect the half dozen we're talking about, not a lot of their consciences would dictate they would like to defend donald trump. >> you have a piece in mother jones, there's not a lot of breath being put toward wednesday. is that conversation done now? as they advance from the committee to the house floor for the full vote, be it from the mueller report, those who haven't testified yet because of all the liam wranglingswranglinn the water? >> i think as part of the democratic strategy, it's done with. they have decided to go with with a narrow, targeted impeachment. i was telling you earlier to misquote donald rumsfeld you go to war with the impeachment you have. because they didn't spend the earlier part of the year i think fully investigating or, more importantly, conveying to the public, the hearings. they counted too much on mueller himself and the report and the promise of revived russian investigation never came into being. just a few -- two months ago, dana's fine newspaper, the "washington post" reported that trump, when he met with russian officials in may of 2017 in the oval office, said he was unconcerned with the russian attack. unconcerned. to me that in itself would be an impeachable offense if confirmed. telling a foreign adversary, i don't care that you attacked us. a lot of things that could have been impeachable that members of congress and individuals talked about. but they didn't do it in a systematic way. so now they are left with the ukraine scandal, which i believe is justifiable. but there are other ways they could have gone. >> nanette, what does it tell you about what will happen when it moves to the house floor or the senate, the way the markups in hearings were conducted. >> absurd to 11. >> starting at 11. >> and lindsey graham will keep turning it up and up and up. i am going to take a lot of antacids. >> i want to know the senate, will they come in wearing maga hats for the trial? >> we have a bottle of trump vodka, trump water. >> he is saying i have already made up my mind. they all have to take an oath saying they will be impartial. i know democrats say trump is guilty. but i think you need to go through the courtesy of the constitution of saying i support trump, i like him, i play golf with him, but i will try to be impartial as i consider the evidence. and they're not even bothering to do that. mcconnell of course has joined the trump defense. >> i look forward to mitt romney's eventual speech about how what the president did is wrong. >> after the trial concludes. >> we can all stand in the corner and face the wall for a few days. and then go back to being president. . >> he said it on sean hannity and to reporters after that. what do you make of what he said about this trial and the pretense of any sort of fairness now gone? >> well, it is gone. they don't believe there has to be fairness or impartiality. even though the oath, they know they have to take it as the jury on this thing. it is about partisanship. they are beating their chests about how it's not going to be impartial pause they have such disdain for the numbers, for the impeachment articles. the other thing that is interesting about the articles is there are only two impeachment articles because the third one that you could have put in there are the obstruction of justice charges under the mueller report. that was decided -- the democrats decided not to do that for one reason. there may have been others, but there is one reason. that is nancy pelosi, which she has to do for the last year or two, protect her moderate majority members in swing districts, if you will. so they did not want to add mueller report or obstruction of justice, the 15 or 17 instances. but she has the votes for the impeachment. she will put it on the senate and say we have done our jobs. . >> all right. we will see what happens. appreciate your time on this sunday, as always. >> still ahead on "up", the 2020 candidate taking on the dnc with the help of eight of his competitors. first a one-off surveillance error or systemic flaw, the debate over fisa from our friends at "meet the press" in the can the- -- county-to count project. >> do we owe ukraine money? were we gifting ukraine money? were we lending ukraine money? who gives money without some kind of -- i don't want to call it quid pro quo but some kind of, here, but, hey, while i'm giving you this, i heard about a problem back then. can you look into that. is that unreasonable? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. we found that investigators failed to meet their basic obligations of especially suring that the fisa applications were scrupulously accurate. we identified significant inaccuracy and omissions. seven in the first and a total of 17 by the final renewal application. >> this is "up". i'm david gura. i want to take a look at that are report by michael horowitz. it highlights serious issues with the way the fbi surveilled carter page, something senate republicans have seized on. gop lawmakers used a hearing to demand the fisa court be reform. democrats are skeptical, including ron wyden, a privacy advocate. why after years of blocking bipartisan reforms are senior republicans suddenly interested in it? if they actually care about these abuses, they will stop stonewalling and join forces with us working on badly needed reforms. matt miller is an msnbc contributor. let me ask you about the broad takeaway. we heard from michael horowitz at the top. my sense is there is a bar for the applications. it's a low bar. fbi met them. if you want to reform that, that's up to congress to do. the ball is in congress's court. what is your sense of appetite for that in light of what you heard this week during the hearing and what ron wyden and others have been saying now? >> other issues are at play. first is the issue that mike horowitz uncovered with serious mistakes that went into the preparation of this for a warrant for carter page. and i think there is an open question whether that was a one-face-off or a systemic problem at the fbi. we don't know the answer to that. horowitz said he will conduct an audit. when we see the results we will know if there needs to be continued reforms to that piece of fisa pertaining to warrants. it has not been about reforming the warranted activity under fisa. it has been a separate program where the fbi is able to get the emails or access to phone calls of americans without using a warrant. it is called section 702. that is a separate topic and really a separate debate than what happened to carter page where the fbi did go get a warrant. i have to say it has been ironic watching the republican party the last three years of investigations into trump and some of his associates rediscover civil liberties reform and justice reform. you saw it not just with carter page but paul manafort, michael cohen, roger stone when he was arrested early in the morning. law enforcement techniques that have been used for years against defendants have been controversial. those were different than what was uncovered in this report but it is worth noting. >> david, where do we go from here? michael horowitz wants to conduct this audit. durham, u.s. attorney, working on whatever he will produce at the end, his analysis of these matters as well. what does that look like? what kind of change do you think we will see? >> it is not targeted on the fisa mistakes that were made. and it's -- you know, i can answer the question. i know why republicans are focusing on the fisa violations this time. because they don't want to talk about the other part of the report, which is the fbi was fully, fully, fully justified in opening the treasure-russia investigation in july. it had nothing to do with the steele dossier. it came about through legitimate reasons. there were more contacts and contact points between the trump campaign and russia while russia was attacking the united states. they don't want to talk about that because the central elements of the scandal is that russia attacked. it had an bacteria on the electi impact on the election. it helped trump. they never wanted to face that. that is something they have not fully conveyed. it's all in the report. and i think the durham investigation is supposed to come out and challenge that because that's not the finding that bill barr wants. he wants it to be that the fbi investigation was illegitimate. barr is trying to undermine his own department by sicking durham on the fbi because he didn't like the findings of michael holmes. >> they went to durham and durham could not challenge the findings of the horowitz report. >> he did put out a statement afterwards. it seemed he challenged it. it is probably on very narrow grounds and not what barr wants. >> i will accept that from the amendment. let me tell you what we are not talking about that we ought to be talking about. as a former prosecutor, the police and others, fbi, submit for warrants all the time to judges. not fisa court but federal judges and state judges. and the judges and the courts have to rely unilaterally on these applications. it is not like there is a due process at this point, right? now, mistakes are made all the time. the only reason you're hearing about these 15 or 17 mistakes that the horowitz figured out is because the light has been shined on them, right? it's not a perfect process. but if you look at the mistakes that were made, these were made by fbi either lawyers or law enforcement people working. and so the challenge of reforming fisa court, you may have that other bucket that says about transparency. but what you really need to do is that these fbi individuals who made these mistakes need to be retrained on an annual basis if you will. they made mistakes. it wasn't politically motivated. they just made mistakes. they need more supervisors, maybe an independent review. they need to be trained on what they need >> matt miller, i will put up a tweet from the president about christopher wray. i don't know what report he was reading but it sure wasn't the one given to me. with that kind of attitude he will never be able to fix the fbi, which is badly broken despite having some of the greatest men and women working there. a variation on a theme we have heard from the president before. but do a little psycho analysis if you would. what is he thinking as he reads a tweet like that and faces the predicament. >> checking his 401(k). >> i'm sure he's not surprised. the president expects everyone that works in law enforcement, independent law enforcement where you are supposed to carry out your duties without fear or favor and political bias, he wants them to only be loyal to him. that's what he has gone from the attorney general. he wanted that all along throughout his administration. he finally got it with bill barr. he is very disa pointed and frustrated. chris wray needs to keep doing his job, keep protecting the men and women from the fbi. that's tough when you have the president and the attorney general attacking him. it's a dangerous place for him to be. >> the president is right about one thing. he didn't read the report. >> he asked what he was looking at. wray was looking at his 15-year appointment when he got that tweet. versus barr who serves at the pleasure -- >> quickly here, david. >> donald trump is running a pretty corrupt regime. if you're now working in the fbi and you're tasked to do anything for the justice department and you need a fisa warrant, you're going to go through that knowing bill barr is going to come after you if you try to do anything involving trump or his political cronies. they are killing that prospect. >> matt miller, thank you very much. as always. a counterimpeachment narrative. trade is a part of that. we will dive into the president's most consequential win this week, progress on the new nafta. did democrats give too much too soon? o soon great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar? thanks, lady. taxi! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ us lives here. where we can be surprised by others. and ourselves. for a better us, donate to your local y today. so that early retirement we planned. it's going ok? great. now i'm spending more time with the kids. i'm introducing them to crab. crab!? they love it. so, you mentioned that that money we set aside. yeah. the kids and i want to build our own crab shack. ♪ ♪ ahhh, you're finally building that outdoor kitchen. yup - with room for the whole gang. ♪ ♪ see how investing with a j.p. morgan advisor can help you. visit your local chase branch. this is "up". i'm david gura. the president touted a cease-fire in the u.s.-china trade war. president xi agreeing to buy more farm products and exports from the united states. . >> the tariffs will largely remain. the 25% on $250 billion. and we'll use them for future negotiations on the phase two deal. >> all right. this week there was also progress on the successor to nafta, an agreement announced in the middle of the impeachment process. president trump is trying to create a counterimpeachment narrative. they are holding up they are not wholly focused on impeachment. congress just kicked trump's trade deal in the teeth for all the right reasons. where are we at the end of this week? >> we're kind of where we started. i don't want to confuse anyone. i said that congress kicked the trade deal in the teeth because of the hong kong bills that were passed. >> the protests. >> the house and in the senate. the hit the third rail of chinese politics. those two bills ensured there would be no phase two. >> despite what he just said? >> there will be no phase two. i don't know how much the chinese are going to buy. he doesn't know how much the chinese are going to buy. we do know if they buy too much they can mess with ways they don't want to with their economy, which is why they refuse to put a number on it. they wouldn't do it in their own press conference. and i sincerely doubt they are doing it in meetings with the white house. now, it is sad that, you know, the people who are sad about progress on usmca are senate republicans. they feel they were left out of the process. but pharma is also sad about it. and so i consider that a victory for everyone else, normal people who enjoy just seeing work get done. the hong kong and gen bills were passed without mitch mcconnell. i was talking to a senate source the other day. the senate has become a do-nothing place. it used to be the greatest deliberative body in the world. and they are complaining that the president got legislation passed. they are complaining about usmca, about getting work done. so it is shocking to me that we are even talking about the china trade deal. the president's victory, which was pathetic. and he is touting that. when he actually did get something done, something actually, you know, that required some work, his own party is complaining about it. the president's head is completely in the wrong place. it is on farm goods that the chinese have not even promised to buy. and he is touting this win while the rest of his party is complaining about actually getting work done. we live in a completely topsy-turvy world. >> isn't the issue that he started a trade war and now there is a cease-fire. and he is claiming that as a win. right? >> we don't even know! we don't know! >> so we're not even back where to where we were. >> you know what, jared is on it. >> scott, you brought up the mod rats a moment ago. this was, in a way, good news for the moderate democrats, as i said at the top. they have something, the usmca agreement, something they can go back to their constituents with. >> they can say we worked with the president and blah, blah, blah. >> emphasis on that. >> and i voted to impeach the same week. but at the same time it does give them some cover because the worse case scenario for the democrats next year is that even if they win the white house, if they win, they still cannot afford to lose the house. they want to pick up seats in the senate. under some scenarios they might be able to control all three houses. i think nancy pelosi has done a great job of trying to protect the moderates to the extent she can. >> put up this quote if you would by david fickland. best line this whole week. it's a relief when the nation decides to stop punching itself in the face. how much better if it hadn't started though. they are trading barbs over transparency. the clashes between elizabeth warren and pete buttigieg continues. eth warren and pete buttigieg continues. - [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. we don't see who you're against, through or for,rs, whether tomorrow will be light or dark, all we see in you, is a spark we see your spark in each nod, each smile, we see sparks in every aisle. we see you find a hidden gem, and buying diapers at 3am. we see your kindness and humanity. the strength of each community. we've seen more sparks than we can say. about 20 million just yesterday. the more we look the more we find, the sparks that make america shine. and my lack of impulse control,, is about to become your problem. ahh no, come on. i saw you eating poop earlier. hey! my focus is on the road, and that's saving me cash with drivewise. who's the dummy now? whoof! whoof! so get allstate where good drivers save 40% for avoiding mayhem, like me. sorry! he's a baby! ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. two candidates have gone back and forth the last few weeks on taxes, consulting work. and i'm curious what we have learned as a result. david corn, i'll start with you. this debate for a time. should they be focused on fighting amongst themselves or fighting president trump looking ahead to the general election? they have made these demands. each has a seeded to them. now we are better for it. . >> well, i think that's right. i think the criticisms of pete buttigieg were particularly justified in terms of transparency, talking about who he's getting money from. these are the issues that you want to raise against donald trump, right? tax returns and so on. and i thought he was very prickly about it and begrudgingly got to the right place. the larger point is i know a lot of democrats watching say, you know, they don't want to see candidates attacking one another. it's not good in the long run. a lot of general election voters are not paying attention yet. as you get closer to the primaries, for the guys to try to find any points and differences to motivate people in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina, nevada. the only person who doesn't care about that is mike bloomberg because he is -- he has the largest advertising buy i believe in the history of the known universe. since they started writing, no one has spent as much money on politics in terms of ads. >> my question to what we have learned, and david is alluding to this, we know what his client list is. 113 individuals and couples who have given all of this money. where are we as a result of getting all of that? >> nowhere. and we have learned nothing. i must tell you this is inside baseball stuff. those who are loyal to mayor pete and those who are loyal to senator warren are going to still be loyal to them. and the average voter on the street, i'm a former party chair, were want to connect with who they support whether it's the president, local council member. two, they want to know how that connection or support is going to affect their day-to-day life. whether it's education, health care, criminal justice. things they deal with on a day-to-day basis. this is all interesting and great fodder and one upmanship. but the people who are voting aren't going to understand what a bundler is. >> i think -- i think. >> i may be a bundler. >> people are starting to worry about how this whole sausage is made. we lived through 2016 where it was made in the same way it was made before, and it came out weird. >> those are good government types who support warren, mayor pete. will that make you decide whether you vote for them or not in the end? >> we are starting to reconsider our institutions, the way we do things. i don't think it will necessarily make you change your mind. . >> but it is not illegal either >> it's not illegal either. we are trying to change the standard of what the party believes is the right thing to do. the values of the party, the values of transparency and the kind of background we want our politicians and our candidates to have. >> david, what about the -- >> all they care about is winning. these politicians or candidates. and voters care about winning too. this is way above them. most voters, not all. >> i think if you look at parts of the party and the energy. there is a difference between -- on all parties. where the energy comes from the party and where the massive votes are. it is left of center where it's aoc, grassroots. and the ideas of transforming politics is appealing to a lot of democratic primary voters. >> why is biden leading in all polls, the moderate? >> well, he, too, tries to talk up reform. he is still not in a majority position. he is leading with a quarter of the votes. the other votes are sort of being divied up. . >> exactly. >> up against trump, the cronyism of trump, it is important for the candidates. this is part of elizabeth warren's whole pitch. so this is what she is selling. and while it may not be the decisive vote for -- issue for voters, it is mart of who she is and why she is running. >> i agree with you. but none of that is dispositive whether they will get more votes. whether it's the primary or the general against president trump. >> you have it now in the crucible of pete versus elizabeth warren. does it persist? as you talk about reevaluating constituti institutions? will we get it now and going forward as a result? >> i don't know. but the uglier the things look on the gop side is the more it will make democrats want to look cleaner and more transparent in opposition. look, we haven't figured out what egor and lev parnas were doing. they were handing out sacks of money to the gop. let me tell you -- i don't have all day. just this one segment. but one problem is we don't dig, we don't dig into what is a bunch of lousy, dirty, russian money sloshing around in the gop. >> we don't have money enough to dig into it. the problem with the democrats, my beloved party, they want to win the debate on everything. and they want to win it the right way. >> this is survival, though. >> all they want to do is win. they don't care how they look. democrats care how they look. the election is so vitally important, all resources, all focus, laser-like, ought to be on the white house for the sake of this country. . >> and it will be. >> being good or good government or rer forms, important. but not dispositive. >> somebody has to get the trust of the american people back at some point in the future. >> people don't trust politicians, though. >> to get to your point, this is a primary. you look at every primary and it is the candidates differentiating themselves and making the case that they want best go up against the other side. >> actually, how pete buttigieg responds to challenges is important. he's had other challenges. so actually the nature of it is important. but also the form of it is important. he is being challenged on a core democratic issue, which is good government, accountability, transparency. if he can't respond well to that with messaging, that shows, hey, maybe he's not the best candidate. >> important but not dispositive. again, important. but that is not going to win him the nomination. >> we'll leave it there. >> and another thing -- >> democrats care how they look. i see your boutonniere. president trump making history for how many lies and misrepresentations he's made since he took office. close to 15,000. the biggest pinocchios of 2019, next. os of 2019, next ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your 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explorer card. savin' on this! savin' on this! savin' in here. rewarded! learn more at the explorer card dot com. it's versus the other guys.eese (cheering) clearly, velveeta melts creamier this is "up". i'm david gura. we have reduced the trade deficit. i have the all-time record for republicans. dnc server is in ukraine pause of a ukrainian company. a few of the over 14,000 false statements or flat-out lies donald trump has hold throughout his presidency. the "washington post" believes it will push past 15,000 next week. they are the biggest pinocchios. he made the list seven times. david corn, i'll start with you on the marquis pinocchio. gepetto's prized possession led to this investigation. that's what he had to say the last few months. . >> trump has given pinocchio a bad name, i've got to say. i don't know how you came up with 13 over the years. and i feel sorry for the other politicians on the list who may have told two lies the whole year and they are on the list. . >> the cherry tree versus the orchard, i suppose. >> but the ukraine -- this is part of the ukraine scandal. trump's pursuit of a crazy, be bunked conspiracy theory that the russians did not hack the dnc, that it hacked itself or the ukrainians hacked it or helped it. that's the hoax. and when i read the transcript that came out, that he wants the first favor he asked for of president zelensky. i need your help to find out about the server. and he had been told it was wrong. then i realized he really does believe this stuff. and the most scary thing about the ukraine scandal for any american that trump believes this. so maybe it's not even a lie. >> he believes it and he's ladling it out for senators john kennedy and ted cruz who are all supping from the same sauce. >> his friends told him and he is trained to believe lies that service him. >> and it lets russia totally off the hook. it means there is no ill legitimacy to his presidency, no russian involve. all-purpose narrative. >> i can't believe none of the lie ladies, no kellyanne conway, stephanie grisham. i was disgusted by her laws that obama staffers left notes to trump administration staffers. that is a disgusting lie meant to divide americans for absolutely no reason. like when jim jordan was screaming how liberals hate conservatives during the impeachment hearings. it is stop telling these unnecessary negative, nasty, poisonous. what is wrong with you people? >> here's another one. you have don jr. and eric trump saying when our father became president, we got out of all international business. this is a theme. >> well, the trump hotel in d.c., i couldn't figure out how trump could take the oath of office when he was sworn in because the oath requires him and the constitution that he had no ownership interest or do business with the federal government. &took the oath anyway. international trampers come to that hotel. you have the emolument clause going on. they have had some wins and losses. it will be interesting to see how that turns out. but as time goes on, it's clear whether it's the trump hotel or the facilities that are owned around the country, including federal government's use of some of these facilities. let's not forget about that. that is just not accurate, if you will. >> i mentioned kamala harris at the top. that had to do with the average tax cuts showing it is a middle-class tax hike >> that seems so vanilla now. politicians lying about taxes. woo-woo. i can't get excite build that. i know we are supposed to put democrats on the list when they lie too. . >> she was citing a report that came out that week. it shouldn't have been cited. it is nothing like trump saying no obstruction. >> nothing like diverting planes to the trump hotel in scotland. >> and troops and everything else. >> no obstruction, no obstruction, no obstruction. there are 7,000 versions of that. that is not what the report said, that there was no obstruction. that didn't make the list. when you have 3,000 lies and you only put seven on, that means 2,993 are not making the list. he really should be -- i think he should be in a category all his own. and then all the others who do the vanilla lies of this, that, and the other thing. >> yes. >> they are like minor league. >> compared to the man himself. there you go. lastly here. we have 20 seconds. >> the gop senate and the house, how many of them repeat this. you talked about the. >> cruz, kennedy. >> i cannot believe how they have fallen in line and believe the more you say it, despite how false it is, that somehow your followers or the gop are going to accept that. >> i hate to say that, the whole premise of the big lie. he created it or popularized it, and it seems to work in terms of keeping your base in line. >> thank you all for joining me here. up next, one of his own colleagues plans to defect from the democratic party. plus, how the administration is preparing for a trial in the senate and why one of the president's staunchest allies is bracing for impact. why he wants the senate to make up his mind when his mind is made up already. >> you're weaponizing impeachment, and i want to end it. i don't want to legitimize it. i hate what they're doing. i hate what they're doing. mike bloomberg's never been afraid of tough fights, the ones that make a true difference in people's lives. and mike's won them, which is important right this minute, because if he could beat america's biggest gun lobby, helping pass background check laws and defeat nra backed politicians across this country, beat big coal, helping shut down hundreds of polluting plants and beat big tobacco, helping pass laws to save the next generation from addiction. all against big odds you can beat him. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. ♪for the holidays you can't beat apprhome sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. looking around here i see tablets, laptops, printers, smartphones. they're all connected 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happen in the new year. there is, in his estimation, no chance president trump will be removed from office. his confidence partly due to his close coordination with the white house. . >> some everything i do during this i'm coordinating with white house counsel. there will be no difference between the president's position and our position as to how to handle this. >> up with me this hour, former deputy secretary of state, co-host of "unredacted." and shorthaannon is with nbc ne. with us from washington, kyle cheney, for politico and john flannery, former special counsel to the senate judiciary committee. kyle, let me start with you. you do some yeomans work looking at the parallels between what we saw now and when bill clinton was impeached pack in the '90s. what that will tell us as we move to the next stages of impeachment? >> almost an inverse parallel. when we reach this stage in the clinton era, he was contrite and said look, i messed up. i apologize to the nation and to congress. here you have president trump saying this whole process is a scam, the committee embarrassed itself. we shouldn't even be in this position. so we will not see any contrition out of this white house and with that any sort of attempt at, you know, healing. it looks a little different in this era than it did before. >> john flannery, i wonder what you thought what you heard him talking to sean hannity, fielding questions from reporters on those points as well. this is a wholly different approach as well, is it not? >> oh, absolutely. in fact, i think it's a corrupt approach. it shouldn't surprise us that with an amoral man in the white house we would have this arrangement. technically we have to think of mcconnell as the jury foreman, if you will. well, he's allowing there to be jury tampering in a sense. he is telling us beforehand, before he takes the oath, that he is not going to be impartial, that he is going to railroad this thing in favor of the president. i think under a normal circumstance we trial lawyers what what we call voir dire. can you be fair in the matter? well, he can't do that? it seems he has no business being on the jury. and i think that the corruption that's involved in this jury process spreads further. because we also have the president making contributions to key senators to buy off their vote for the purposes of the impeachment. there is no other way to look at it. it shouldn't surprise us that he would do know what he did wrong in ukraine and what he did before trying to obstruct other investigations. that's exactly what we have here. the entire process is defective, flawed, unjust and fixed by the words of mcconnell. now, if the nation isn't upset about that, this continuing obstruction of justice, of the congress, then i don't know what is. and i think that there should be charges made by the managers when appointed that certain jurors should be removed. mcconnell has no business being a juror if he is not impartial. the oath is meaningful otherwise. and the same may be true for those who received contributions from trump directly to help them figure out what they're doing. >> any hope of that happening? you look at the diminished integrity of this process and what john flannery is talking about there? any hope there will be any remedy to what we have heard and stphaoepb. >> -- seen? >> hope is a very large word. i would say if hope a passion for what is possible, there is always possibility. i think what was most surprising to me in a way was the fact that lindsey graham offered rudy giuliani the opportunity to testify. rudy giuliani is arguably a co-conspirator in exactly the charges that donald trump has been -- is facing. and the democrats wanted to get testimony from him. so if we see republicans saying things like we are going to give key witnesses who refuse to cooperate with congress an opportunity to testify -- essentially to testify to the american public, then i think that does create at least the political opportunity for democrats to quite loudly and vociferously get the american public engaged in what is so clearly anden grossly unfair. and lots of rallies are being scheduled right now across the country. so we'll see. . >> shannon, i know you and your colleagues scrambled when rudy giuliani showed up at the white house with an umbrella over his head as he walked in the west wing. do we know the role he will play here? lindsey graham saying he raised the spectre with this wild trip to eastern europe. what role might he play in all of this? >> there was a moment when it seemed like rudy giuliani could disappear, fade from the scene. for over a year now people have been advising he is not well served by rudy giuliani. he's only making problems worse. that was happening during the mueller investigation. obviously it started happening here. he wouldn't respond to reporters' text messages. he seemed to have fallen off the radar. now he has come back with this white house visit and with this really publicized ukraine trip where he is interviewing people in ukraine to try and dig up dirt on joe biden. he is supposedly working on a documentary about this. and it's now double-down on rudy. and whether it's being driven by the president or driven by rudy himself is unclear. but rudy certainly has not been pushed to the side like many of the president's allies, many, many, only of them. i can't tell you how many times over the past year or two i have heard people say the biggest advice for the president would be to stop tweeting and to get rid of rudy giuliani. but, you know, the president is his own political strategist and khaoubgzs adviser and everything else. and he has chosen to have rudy in his inner circle. so we have not seen the last of rudy giuliani >> how worried should democrats be about focus being lost? what rudy giuliani says he will bring forward. you look at the simple headline impeach with a period after it. there is an effort to crystallize what is so fundamental about the two articles being put before the house. i would take a step back. as the needle moved, has someone switched sides. as we are seeing today. truth is next time next week he will be impeached. that is a tremendous -- >> the asterisk will be in place. . >> and he will be only the third president ever to have done so. probably for the best reasons as compared to the other two. and before you get into all of his this is good for me, good for my base, good for money, this is terrible for him. he was already looking at a terrible legacy to start. now, it's impeach. will he be removed? no. but i don't think people should be frustrated, democrats should be frustrated because what's happening now is a food fight. what we saw during mueller, which is why i would take issue with rudy, rudy fbg effective during mueller. he's crazy. and it might go down badly to rudy. >> he muddies the water. >> yes, muddies the water. second to trump, he is the most human noisemaker there is. when we get to the trial, whether it's a week, 10 days, two weeks, five weeks, you are going to have an orderly presentation of damning facts. is that going to change anyone's minds in mitch mcconnell or anyone else's? i don't know. i doubt it. but we are restoring a very important process that has been neutered since 1998 by the republicans. >> john, you have been through it. you have heard from so many members this week talking about the moment, what they were grappling with, what it felt like to make the vote they made. several members of the committee were there back in the '90s and voted similarly then. they had to vote. i don't know if they voted similarly then. i just wonder if the gravity is the same here? if all of this diminished the gravity of the moment? something you hear from republicans is by doing this impeachment becomes a tool that might be more liberally used in the future. i want to get a sense from you the historical sense or gravity of it, if that has changed as a result? . >> i think this is more grave than prior ones. certainly clinton and in terms of nixon, the interference involving foreign powers, the foreign nation state of ukraine doing us a favor to save themselves perhaps from russia, the puppetmaster for trump. so i think on the scale of gravitas, this is very, very serious. and i think that we saw how frivolous the republicans' position is at the hearing. consider the amendments. three of the amendments involved, one, let us vote against article one. that would be an up and down vote. the amendment was to strike that. then they did the same with the second. let's strike it. those were the final votes. then they came up with another nonsensical agreement, strike out the wherefore close. he should be impeached from office and never hold the honor of office ever again. the republican side has been frivolous, trying to obstruct the argument. and why? two reasons. one, they operated on it of fear. as was said during the hearing, they are bending their knee to trump. the second part, they believe something most of person does not when faced with this proposition. that is that the president is a king, monarch. they fudge over it, but that's the underlying desperation for which they fight. and they may only fight for that if it's a republican in the white house. but that's what they believe, going back to hamilton, the memo by barr during the mueller investigation, and now on the hill at this time. i think it was a fight between facts and law and demeanor versus very desperate republicans who must know with an i.q. of 65 how serious this is and that they are transforming facts into fiction and talking about law that is not law. and some of them are more effective than others. the two auctioneers that lead it off in terms of sound and voice. collins and no jacket jordan. >> let me wrap up with the news of the day. jeff van drew saying he is going to switch to the republican party. how much of a seismic effect will this have on capitol hill? of course he was one of two that came out early on. i imagine that caused ripples on and around capitol hill when that happened. are there going to be aftershocks and tremors as a result of this on capitol hill? . >> i think the impact will be fairly limited. some people basic live consider van drew a de facto republican in a sense that he has been out so early against impeachment. that being the defining vote they're about to take. so, you know, it's not good news for democrats. they don't want to lose a member of their caucus, especially at this sensitive moment. if he does a big show alongside trump, you know, that's just going to really pour salt on the wound. but i think in a weird perverse way it almost unites the rest of the caucus a little more closely. there's going to end up being one fewer defector. if there is a silver lining, it is a limited one but that would be it. >> two words. every time i republican says this they should say justin amash. >> yes. . i heard he could be brought in by the democrats. >> love it. >> kyle, thank you very much. john flannery, thank you very much for joining me this morning. still much more to come including one 2020 fight to change the criteria for democratic debates. the man secretary on of state hillary clinton said had a brain snatch. ton said had a brain snatch it's tough to quit smoking cold turkey. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. 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doing. >> what is the lindsey graham in doha. he has done an about-face. 20 years ago lindsey graham was a congressman. >> please give us a chance, american people, to document what the president did, actually did. i know what people want to do with this case. i know they want to get it over. i know many don't want the president to be impeached. but i've got a duty far greater than just getting to the next election. some house members have said i will not vote for an impeachment. let me tell you, please do say that until you understand what you're voting on. members of the senate said i understand everything there is about this case and i won't vote to impeach the president. please allow the facts to do the talking. don't decide the case before the case is in. >> if you wonder what's going to happen in washington, impeachment will be over mid-january. personally i think president trump will come out stronger. >> this thing will come to the senate and it will die quickly. and i will do everything i can to make it die quickly. >> so much there that i would love for you to react to. don't decide the case before the case is in. that is a lesson in contrast. >> yes. hypocrisy has become the coin of the realm. and remember that lindsey graham had nothing good to say about donald trump in the election of 2016 and suddenly has become his best friend. so we have tons of turnaround here. i think what is so shocking about this is the stakes for this impeachment, the stakes for the country are going to whether or not we add an impeachment clause to the constitution. what the republicans are saying over and over again despite the very serious nature of these charges, including what lindsey graham is ignoring is the president saying i don't have to react, give you a thing, let anybody testify in congress even if it's relevant and a fair request. because every other president, including bill clinton and richard nixon never said a blanket, no, you get nothing, congress. so that obstruction of congress charge should be of deep concern to the republicans even if our elections and national security aren't. kind of shocked that they aren't. but not even to take the position that we must have a fair process even if he's going to vote for acquit al. it's shocking. >> the republicans and trump, it does a disservice. i was surprised to hear the mcconnell remarks and the lindsey graham statements. he will be acquitted. there should be no impeachment. because i had been talking earlier this week in people close to the senate judiciary committee saying there would be a realest to look like they were an impartial jury. of course some would go out and strongly defend the president. but they were going to try to dodge questions about impeachment, saying i'm going to let the process play out and look like an impartial jury because they wanted to give legitima legitimacy to the acquit al. some something the president has called for over and over again, a fair trial. >> right. so i was surprised to see mcconnell come out this strongly. i thought the strategy of course was the opposite. as far as lindsey graham, one clip i was hoping you were going to play, he was one of the impeachment managers on the -- in the senate trial. >> yes. >> so the members of the house that went and argued. it is one of the strongest he gives of the five or six impeachment managers. and i was watching it and thinking, wow, this guy from south carolina is good. he might be going somewhere. he might have a future. i encourage amount of people to go back and watch it. it is something that you could see a democrat saying word for word in today's situation. >> on that metamorphosis, this is a guy who wrote a profile for "time" magazine of your former boss. we have seen a video "the huffington post" made of joe biden, seeing how he talks about him now. this about-face. things changed dramatically. >> yeah. during this whole ordeal we have all picked our personal republican we are most interested in. mitch mcconnell is top of list. jim jordan or matt gates. mine is graham because i have been around him so much. the next time he was on the senate floor was being sworn in in 2001. and he was being sworn in with hillary clinton. they came in together. and they worked together. they got along. it was strange, but they did. they traveled together. they worked very hard together on military health reform for troops. they went to iraq together. they went on tv together. they were part of john mccain's posse. it happened before trump. it happened six years ago when he was up for re-election. it was tea party days. two words we don't use a lot. he was scared to death of a tea party challenge. he tried to out party the tea party and he became rabid. he said hillary had blood on her hands. embracing every conspiracy theory he could going after obama. but what is most disappointing, he's always been gilligan to mccain's skipper. >> yes. >> and how you can turn on your best friend after their death has been maligned by donald trump really goes to the heart of someone's soul. and it's hard to even say at this point he has a soul. and i think hillary clinton was right, he has taken some hard hit to the head or something. because for someone to subsume their own beliefs. he is a smart guy. jim jordan, i don't know. he served as a j.a.g. lawyer. he is an example of why things are not just broken but irreparably broken. this guy is not going back to a point where he is traveling with democrats and paling around. >> republicans on the hill, though, do say watch lindsey graham after the may filing -- april/may filing deadline for the south carolina primary. if he is not primaried will we see a slightly different lindsey graham. >> and he will get to go to baseball playoff games. who will be his best buddy? >> cory booker weighing in on how the debate process plays going forward. the help of several of his competitors, one of his top advisers will join us next. 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thousands of lives. but after the emergency, time and again, insurance companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders... now "big insurance" is lobbying congress. asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. ...6, 7, 8ongress, put patients first, ♪ ♪ ♪ big dreams start with small steps... ...but dedication can get you there. so just start small... start saving. easily set, track and control your goals right from the chase mobile® app. ♪ ♪ chase. make more of what's yours®. kamala qualified for next week's debate too and she would be up on the stage if her campaign continued. i think the dnc has done the best it can with a tough situation. they said objective a long time ago. i don't think they can be kamala's choice for suspending her campaign. . >> andrew yang will be the only candidate of color on thursday's debate. making the debates after senator kamala harris who qualified, suspended her campaign. 9 nine of the candidates led by cory booker are changing next year's debates on to allow more back on the stage. they are refusing to change the qualifications saying the dnc will not change for any one candidate and will not revert back two consecutive nights with more than a dozen candidates. it is extremely low and reflects where we are in the race. national press secretary for the booker campaign is here with us in new york. let's start with the how this came out. i was talking to julian castro. he said he is more interested in systemic change not focused on what's going to happen here in a month or two months's time. was it it like getting others to join him. >> yeah. we went from the most historically diverse field we have seen to a top tier field. while the dnc acted in good faith, they have unfortunately the rules just really don't benefit candidates of color. cory booker is not a billionaire. he cannot go on air and spend tense of millions of dollars to raise our name i.d. we are running a grassroots campaign. unintendly they have narrowed the stage so you have to meet a certain polling threshold. at this time when john kerry was running he was at 4%. we are at 4% in some of the nonqualification polls. we are asking them to revise polls. it is not just cory. it is the field asking. i think people understand the damage it would cause that cory is not on that stage. his voice will not be heard. we are urging for the stage to reflect the democratic party. >> what do you say to tom rpere and saying if you are not meeting the threshold? what do you say to that, there is this mark that you have at this point. >> i really challenge that. i don't think that is the case. this is such an unusual cycle. i think we have seen someone like pete buttigieg rise from the candidate we didn't take as seriously to now one of the top-tier candidates. you can't rule out someone like cory booker, a serious candidate, who does not have the millions of dollars to get on stage like tom steyer. and that's why we're asking the dnc to reevaluate the rules and go back to what they originally were, polling or the donor threshold. >> there were no complaints about these rules when first announced. your reaction to get things changed midstream? >> to the credit of the dnc, chairman perez and everyone, this was meant with the best of intentions. it there is such a thing as being overly egalitarian. give credit where credit is due. the 2015-2016 republicans had it more of a sense of you do well and you get on the main card. you don't do well, you get on the under card. people on the under card made the point that they can't jump. that it's hard. only one or two candidates, chris christie and maybe. >> fiorina. >> they jumped from one to the next. it seems like the entire point of debates now is to qualify for the next debate. and the amount of time people are spending to do that does not make sense. what cracks me up are the number of people not complaining that they are not making the debate. marianne williamson. >> michael bloomberg is not crying over not making the debate. there has to be some kind of system, override, some kind of committee that just uses common sense. for instance, it was possible for someone to qualify for the last debate but not the debate before purely because of longer time. it just doesn't make sense. it doesn't make sense that it took three debates for elizabeth warren and joe biden on the same stage. so they have to go back to the drawing board. >> those who are happy that the field is narrowing. that is something you heard constantly over the course of the long campaign. it was too large. what do you say to them who maybe aren't happily looking forward to two nights of debates or a dozen candidates involved. >> i think this was unintended windowing. the dnc rules have so quickly narrowed the stage from what was historically diverse candidates. now without senator harris being on stage, there is no african-american voice up there. and it is coming with such a unique perspective. the only candidate in the race. still lives in a low-income black and brown community. no one else on the stage does. to have that perspective missing is detrimental to the democratic party. we can't forget that the voters, the base now is the base that delivered us wins with flipping virginia and electing the first democratic senator with doug jones. and also flip the house in 2018. we are artificially narrowing the field for no reason. >> how does the white house react to this? how does this complicate having a field that could be larger once again? >> the white house and the trump campaign is very happy for any time they feel like democrats can get on tv and talk about policies that the white house feels are completely out of line with where the american public is. they think these debates do them well. they think the arguments and debates over health care, the positions of the candidates have taken on the debate stage it is painting the democratic party farther from the left than the moderates are. that is the argument i hear from the trump campaign. they love what they have seen so far from the debates. >> scaling back in new hampshire, your reaction to that and what the campaign tragedy is going forward as we get to within two months's time to iowa and new hampshire. >> i really challenge that piece. it is not accurate. we are definitely not scaling back. the fact is that our path we know is through the early states. we have to do better than expected in iowa to hit us on a trajectory to winning new hampshire. if you want to be the candidate that wins, you can't scale back. i don't know where some of that reporting came from. it is just not accurate. from new hampshire we know that cory is going to perform very well with diverse constituencies. especially with the african-american population. south carolina, we know that is our path to the white house. >> last question to you here just about money. i have covered enough to know there is always this lamentation this money is going to be spent. it happens time after time after time. is some different as you see bloomberg and desirsteyer, the systemic changes. what is the legacy going to be having candidates that can do that? >> this notion of money and politics has been a significant barrier to the democratic process in general because it outsizes contributions from very wealthy people. we have the citizens united problem with dark money in politics. but it is also that candidates of color traditionally have many more barriers to fund raise, right? so when we talk about the divorcity of who is on the stage, fund-raising is usually the issue. mayor bloome berg is not so upset about not being on the stage because he can do all the ad buys in the world. >> and has been, yes. . >> and has been. that's how steyer got on the stage. so it does distort what the constituency wants and what the debate is about. and i want to tie it back to impeachment because one thing we said earlier that was incorrect, andrew johnson not being impeached meant black people elected to statehouses were threatened and pushed on it of democratically elected positions. it took us 100 years to get back to where we were trying to be at reconstruction after the civil war. we had over 100 years of consequences to our democracy and failure to impeach andrew johnson. one is whether candidates of color have a clear and path to vying for office. >> thank you for making the point. let me ask you about the senator who has been off the trail. how is he doing and when does he plan to return? >> we expect him back on the trail starting tomorrow. unfortunately he got the flu. the most person lesson is get your flu shot. >> well said. thank you very much for joining us. the chairman of the house judiciary sound off on the impeachment of the president ahead of this week's historic vote. we will tell you what they are saying, next. tell you what theye saying, next the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. did you know that feeling sluggish or weighed down could be signs that your digestive system isn't working at its best? taking metamucil every day can help. metamucil supports your daily digestive health using a special plant-based fiber called psyllium. psyllium works by forming a gel in your digestive system to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. metamucil's gelling action also helps to lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so, start feeling lighter and more energetic by taking metamucil every day. this is "up". i'm david gura. moments ago the two house can committee chairman locked in before the impending impeachment vote. let's take a listen. >> this misconduct goes on the threat to our election, integrity comes up goes on, it's a clear and present danger i think to our democracy. >> this is a crime in progress against the constitution and against the american democracy. we cannot take the risk that the next election will be corrupted through foreign interference solicited by the president which he is clearly trying to do. >> let me ask you about the crime in progress. it is messaging to the voters, electorate this is still happening or could happen. and the other is just to the mandate of the committees. adam schiff to the left of jerry nadler saying they are open to new evidence. this is not something that will dry up or end. >> absolutely. this is an ongoing saga. and rightly so. as we saw, rudy giuliani just went back to ukraine, doubled down right in the crime that keeps criming as barbara mcwade would say. it is doing the very same thing robert mueller said, 150 contacts between russians and the trump campaign. different from whether he had sufficient evidence of conspiracy. but remember that one of the things he said explicitly in the report is people lie to us. people destroy documents. he didn't say exonerated. he said people made it hard for us to find evidence. that's exactly the other article of impeachment, which i keep wanting to remind people of. what donald trump did in october is to go on television is say, yeah, china, i want you to do. in fact, i will use the trade talks. in other words, i will use the power of the office and abuse it. and now we have giuliani going back to ukraine and meeting with people. remember, donald trump, one of the defenses should be, no, i was just concerned about corruption broadly. i wasn't just concerned about the bidens. what ukraine trip showed is giuliani meeting with the history of corrupt officials in ukraine that he should have been concerned about. so what he is saying is it is still happening and he is rightly saying it is probably criminal. if we could get enough evidence. but because of the obstruction we can't. that's why impeachment itself is on trial. >> while the conversations are happening, fox news is out with a new poll on the subject of impeachment. i will read from that. it finds 50% wanting president trump impeeved but removed. in recent days we have had the president espousing his affection for fox news. in recent weeks he criticized them for its polling. >> he does frequently criticize fox's polling. and clearly he has this impression that the fox polls should be more favorable to him for some reason. the white house has been talking a lot about another poll, republican consulting firm that showed the president doing, it showed support for impeachment i guess a little bit below the national average in the key swing states. they have been really focusing on that. our poll gurus, i asked about this. they say they don't read too much because of the methods they use behind that. when you look at impeachment polling as a whole, you look at the poll as a poll as they aggregate them altogether. it has been steady with people broken 50%. the numbers that the white house cares about are republicans and independents. as long as republicans stay firmly opposed to impeachment, they do not feel they have to worry about a mutiny among republican senators. so they are safe in the senate. secondly, they look at independents. they are still consistently 50/50. so they feel like they have the shot to win over undecided independent voters, they haven't shifted too far in favor of impeachment that they won't be able to get them back in 2020. >> the numbers frozen in amber it seems. up next, she seems find with her husband attacking another teenager. the first lady's team discussing what he said about greta thunberg. >> my name is greta thunberg and i also have a christmas message. in 10 years this snowman won't exist. santa, reindeer, the north poll, all of it gone. so merry maybe our last christmas to all and donald trump step to me and i will come at you like a plastic straw comes at a turtle. more to me than hiv. there's my career... my cause... and creating my dream home. i'm a work in progress. so much goes into who i am. hiv medicine is one part of it. prescription dovato is for adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment and who aren't resistant to either of the medicines dolutegravir or lamivudine. dovato has 2 medicines in 1 pill to help you reach and then stay undetectable. so your hiv can be controlled with fewer medicines while taking dovato. you can take dovato anytime of day with food or without. don't take dovato if you're allergic to any of its ingredients or if you take dofetilide. if you have hepatitis b, it can change during treatment with dovato and become harder to treat. your hepatitis b may get worse or become life-threatening if you stop taking dovato. so do not stop 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never say anything against somebody's child. that's just wrong. that's bullying. so i mean look at what the president did this week with that 16-year-old girl, greta. you can't attack children. that's the bottom line. >> this is "up". i'm david gura. that was jill biden and my conversation with her yesterday on the show. greta thunberg is time's person of the year and the youngest in history. they turned to the first lady who has been silent on the matter. she has made anti-bullying her cause as first lady. the white house did respond from her spokesperson as they pointed out the speed with which they criticized a law prefer at stanford. the son is not an activist who travels the globe giving speeches. he is a 13-year-old who wants and deserves privacy. jake joins us now on set. just react to this the import of her being on the cover. we can get the sideshow that came as a result of that. this was a brave pick. and she continues to have an impact. she has been in madrid. >> what time has recognized is that greta thunberg showed a moral clarity, level of intelligence and understanding on this issue that the world needs right now and that we are so sorely lacking in the oval office where we have seen in previous administrations that type of leadership. and frankly i think if we had a president who exhibited even half of the leadership that greta thunberg has shown or half of her intelligence or half of her moral clarity on this issue we would be in a much different place. >> what's the role that she is playing? those criticize her being named personhe of the year, it's overblown what she's doing. is the role she's playing in this conversation about the climate crisis? >> she has called our attention to the urgency of this issue and she o has particularly stood ups a young woman and called out our adultd leaders who have basicay essentially done nothing and she's saidia -- she has really spoken truth to power at the u.n., at talks in various parliaments across europe. nows at the climate talks, the global talks and she's stood up and said, look, we have eight years left if we are going to avoid the worstoi consequences climate change if we're going to prevent thein globe from warmin. pass the 1.5 degrees celsius threshold with they've come out numerous times and says we're exhausting ouray carbon emissio budget if we have any hope of meeting that target and we're not doing anything. and the types of things she'd be advocating for are direct actions toti reduce our admissis in everyou sector of the econom from the powerr sector, cleani up our power plants from transportation, transitioning to electric vehicles, from buildings, things like what new york city has just done to enact a limit on the amount of emissions that canun be coming from our buildings. we have a leader in the white house who is affirmatively doing the opposite thing. he'sth rolling back the regulations we have instead of strengthening them. he's supporting and propping up the industries that we know pollute and that cause global warming. and it's really, you know, i think it takes a young woman, a child who has not necessarily been corrupted, shall we say, jaded, by politics to say to people, guys, what are you doing? you've got itre all backwards a it's wrong. >> i keep turning to you, my hypocrisy correspondent today. we thought pam didn't need to apologize -- >> i'm changing my title. >> but to this point of hypocrisy, going o back to the speed with which the first lady weighed in when her son's name was hementioned.me what do you make of the president's silence and the willingness to do idthat.ll the effort to punch him down when there's nobody to punch back at? >> that's his m.o. this is at' man who when he was campaigning for president called ong people at his rallies to b violent. this is the same president who after charlottesville, after we saw white supremacists march, neo-nazis march and the death of heather heyer's equate it with peaceful protesters and said there's good and bad on both sides and nowth the president w literally intimidated a career public miservant, a former ambassador who, was a witness d impeachment while she was sitting and giving testimony to the house intelligence committee was tweeting intimidating statements about her. so in a sense, there's no surprise here. this isns n a continuing patter behavior. i think what we may have suspected is that perhaps he hap a boundary when it came to someone who was under 18. i think we in new york knew he didn't have that boundary since he was calling for the death penalty of young men who are now the exonerated five. and he has never apologized for calling for their death penalty, even though -- even after they have been exonerated. so for those of us who have known him for a long time, no surprise here and no surprise that, you know, part of the, i think, crass political calculation of c having an anti-bullying campaign for the first lady was in an effort to try to restore the impression that he made very explicit to the american people beginning with the election. >> all the while having a laugh about this, the trump re-election campaign reworking the cover togn put president trump's head onto greta thunbers body. >> so this does not help him with white suburban women. and that is one of the very key demographics they have to worry about. they really are in trouble there. that'sea what we saw cause the e backlash against republicans in 2018 and help propel a lot of thesens democratic members into the house. they need to worry about suburban white women and every time something like this comes up, it gives that ick factor, concern. is this -- it increases the discomfort level withse checkin thedi box for donald trump. andna even though his defenders his base love to see him counterpunching, anyone who comes at him, whether it's the pope, whether, it's a gold stag family, whether it's a 13-year-old girl, he's goingit go 'sback. if you attack him, you are fair game and hisre base loves to se that. it's notlo doing any favors wit the rest of the voting population. >> great toti see you. appreciate it. join us here in new york. thanks to my panel this hour. coming up -- congressman ilhan omar will join joy reed at the top of the hour. reed at the top of the hour. upbeat music♪ no cover-up spray here. cheaper aerosols can cover up odors in a flowery fog. but febreze air effects eliminates odors. with a 100% natural propellent. it leaves behind a pleasant scent you'll love. [ deep inhale] freshen up. don't cover up. febreze. the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. fine, no one leaves the tablefine, we'll sleep here. ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. ♪everybody needs somebody to love...♪ ♪ find everything you need to get together this holiday, with low prices and free shipping on millions of items at amazon. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ with low prices and free shipping we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. some things are too important to do yourself. ♪ get customized security with 24/7 monitoring from xfinity home. awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. simple. easy. awesome. call, click or visit a store today. save hundreds of thousands of lives. but after the emergency, time and again, insurance companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders... now "big insurance" is lobbying congress. asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. that does it for me today. thank you very much for watching. "a.m. joy" starts right now. >> this thing will come to the senate, and it will die quickly. and i will do everything i can to make it die quickly. i want this to end as quick as possible for the good of the senate, for the good of the country. and i think the best thing for america to do is get this behind us. i am trying to give a pretty clear signal i have made up my mind. >> i wasn't in any doubt at this point. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." right now the house judiciary committee is putting the final touches on its impeachment report ahead of an expected wednesday vote by the full house. but after what you just heard from the chairman of the senate judiciary committee, what's now clear to anyone who is watching is that the white house will be the only body conducting a constitutional process. with something entirely different and diminished happening in the senate. by revealing that he's not even going to pretend to be an impartial juror in the impeachment of his bossman donald trump, lindsey graham is practically boasting that he considers the oath of office that he took when he became a senator to be a joke. united states senators take an additional oath at the beginning of an impeachment trial where they swear to, quote, do impartial justice according to the constitution and laws. lindsey graham apparently considers that to be a joke, too. and he's far from alone. graham's revelation that he will refuse to do his job came just two days after self-proclaimed grim reaper of the senate mitch mcconnell told the trump

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though. trump even has his own version of the if i did it of if i did it. the memo that he keeps calling a transcript which proves he did it and his own chief of staff and his million dollar donor turned eu ambassador gordon sonde larpd both saying he did it, so he will be impeached and he will carry that shame of being indicted by the house for defying. bill clinton was impeached by partisan republicans after he'd already been re-elected and probably because of it. richard nixon had the self-respect to resign before his full impeachment. and later in this show we'll talk about the man whose impeachment and presidency comes close to donald trump's. america's now second worst president,andrew johnson. he is a member of the house intelligence committee and vice chairman of the foreign affairs committee. congress m congressman, good morning. >> good morning. >> we know that this vote is coming next week. there's not a lot of suspense about the way it will go, but you talk presumably every so often with members on the other side of the aisle. have you identified or can you tell us, are there any republicans who can look at this evidence against donald trump including his own people saying he did it in a so-called fake transcript, a memo that shows he did it, are any republicans that you know of planning to vote yes on the idea of these two articles of impeachment? >> to be honest, none that i've spoken with have said they're going to vote for it. and it's interesting. early on in september when the phone call broke, all this news broke, there were a lot manufacture republicans who were openly admitting that it was problematic, that there was a problem, that it was inappropriate and it's interesting how slowly it'smorphed into almost a complete defense and a clinging to donald trump and this denial of reality of basically saying that there was nothing inappropriate, he did nothing wrong, that this is a witch hunt and so forth. so to see that has been both unbelievable and saddening and disheartening all at once. >> so you're saying that you're now hearing them try to defend him on the substance because at first, what republicans were doing when they weren't just running away from cameras was saying yeah, it might be bad but it's not impeachable so you're saying now when you talk with republicans they're defending the substance of this strong arm of ukraine? >> yeah, it may just be the ones that i talked to also, but yeah, they're trying to -- they're trying to behave as though he did nothing wrong but you're right. there are some that have said yeah, well, maybe it's bad or he shouldn't have done that but it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. it's a combination of those two things, but the most aggress i have voices within the republican conference have been like doug collins, people -- and jim jordan, folks that come across as true believers, the people that go out and completely defend the president no matter what he does and that's what you're seeing more and more. and so when that happens i think this is -- just in terms of the internal dynamics of the congress, when you have a group of people like that who go out and so adamantly defend the president, what i've noticed is that the other republicans then start to cower and they feel as though they've got to toe that line. it draws everybody like a magnet to those arguments and it's what i'm describing that i've seen over the last few months. >> we've now heard mitch mcconnell say that the jury is rigged. he's going to work with the defendant to ensure husbais acquittal in the senate. i'm going to play your colleague in the house and this is what he says he thinks the democrats should do. take a listen. >> i think nancy pelosi and house democrats may want to reconsider whether or not they refer the articles next week. what happens in the articles of impeachment is the last paragraph will say and the article is here by referred to the senate for trial. they could strike that paragraph, hold it and either wait for mcconnell and schumer to reach tom some agreement, some assurances that schumer feels that we can go into this knowing that we may have a fair trial or just hold it until the president commits another impeachable act. >> what do you think about that idea of not giving mitch mcconnell the opportunity to rig the jury and just impeaching donald trump in the house and not sending it at least for now to the senate. >> yeah, it's an interesting one and i hadn't thought about it but i do think that leader schumer and speaker pelosi and adam schiff and others will have to think about the strategy because you have mitch mcconnell who's basically saying that he's in cahoots with donald trump and how could anybody expect that this is going to be a fair trial when the guy that's in charge of the jury is rigging it for the defense? so the speaker and leader schumer will have to sit back and think about what the best approach is. i still expect that once the house votes on it it's going to be sent over to the senate, but there's no doubt that that interview a few days ago by mitch mcconnell on fox news really sent shock waves not just through congress but i think any american listening to that realizing that this is supposed to be an impartial process and hearing that guy basically say that it's going to be rigged was, you know, kind of shocking. >> congressman, you're from texas. you're also on the intelligence committee which has been really the sort of leading committee in terms of figuring out all that donald trump did and that brought him to impeachment. how do you explain to the average texan who doesn't pay attention to this every day, isn't obsessively watching a.m. joy and msnbc, how do you explain to them, what is it that donald trump did so wrong? what is it that he did that makes him deserved to be removed from office. >> he abused his power by trying to trade government resources for a political favor, to knock out a political rival in joe biden. the guy that he thought would emerge as nominee for 2020 and we can't set a precedent where congress says it's okay for a president to do that because if we do that then a few things will happen. number one it opens the door for donald trump to do it again or a few dh future president to do it again. to ask a country to interfere in our elerkss and knock out a political rifle by digging up dirt, but the other thing is it puts a lot of americans in danger and this is what i try to convey to people that aren't in politics. it means that if you're a business person who's doing work or your kids are doing work in ukraine or in sweden or anywhere else, that a president or a governor or somebody else can pick up the phone and ask that person -- the leader of that country to go investigate you or dig up dirt on you and that congress would be saying by letting donald trump off the hook that that's okay. that you know, the next democratic president, in fetheo could call saudi arabia and say if you don't investigate we're not going to give you the aid we said we're going to do. is it okay for a president to do that? that's what we'll be doing if we do nothing with donald trump. >> the fact that donald trump has children that does business with fwooreign countries. does he want that applied to his son-in-law or his daughters in relationships. it's an excellent point. >> that's right. in ten years, really i mean, if this goes think, if nothing happens in ten years somebody could ask to investigate jared kushner in israel or somewhere else, and we would be saying that's perfectly fine. thank you very much. really appreciate you being here this morning. >> thank you. >> let's now bring in laurence tribe, professor of constitutional law at harvard and author of "to end a presidency." before i move on to the senate i want to get you to comment on that as well. down the road, donald trump may be setting a precedent if he's acquitted that a future president could say, saudi arabia, i'd leek you to give me some dirt on what you and jared kushner have been up to or china, you've bullpeen doing business with e-ivanka. that pressosent is horrifying that a president could do that with a foreign country. >> i think congressman castro is exactly right. the kind of abuse that this president has engaged in is the sort of abuse that we don't want any american president to be able to engage in against any citizen, not only his main political rifle. getting foreign governments to do your dirty work and to go after american citizens whom you don't like or who are on your enemy's list or whose business activities disturb you or who are your critics is what dictators do. it's what desperates do and our liberty, our right to vote is not secure as long as a president of the united states especially one who says he can't be indicted, he can't be investigated, and he's going to stone wall any attempt to impeach him can get that kind of power focused against any citizen, we're all helpless against that. that's why this matters to us. it's not just theoretical question. >> and as jeff see tuben said it's only something a president could do to a fellow citizen which is why it's important. mitch mcconnell said he's rigging the jury, that the outcome is already determined. he will determine that donald trump will be acquitted so you almost wonder whether or not former congressman david jolly is correct. he said earlier that maybe the house just shouldn't send the articles over to him or at least delay sending it. we've talked about that before with you. what do you make about that idea of deleting that last line in the articles of impeachment that says they shall be sent to the senate and at least holding it for now? >> well, in an op ed in the "washington post" early this june i proposed that as a thought experiment. i said if it should turn out that mitch mcconnell in his usual way comes right out and basically says the fix is in so that the so-called trial will be just a whitewash that will never remove the stain from the president but will also not have any chance of removing the president and disqualifying him from future office, that in that event the house should consider simply concluding after a fair proceeding of its own and this one was fair, despite the complaints after concluding that the president is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, just sit on it and not send it over to the senate. that was my proposal. but i don't think it's awfully realistic. the fact is that both articles of impeachment have now been voted by the judiciary committee. there is no real chance that between now and next wednesday that last sentence will be be taken out. and even if it were i wouldn't put it past mitch mcconnell to say under the constitution he can take these articles up once the articles of impeachment are then voted by the house and there would be a plausible argument to that effect. so it's an interesting idea. actually i thought it pretty interesting when i proposed it back in june, but i don't think we should waste a lot of time speculating about it. it ain't going to happen. >> all right. well, then let's look at some things that maybe could happen. one of them would be, there was a piece in the "washington post" that talked about some things that democrats could do in the senate to try to force mcconnell to hold a real trial. democrats could demand the mountains of documents the administration refused to turn over to the house impeachment inquiry be admitted as evidence in the trial. democrats could insist on the rights to call witnesses such as mick mulvaney, john bolton and they could use the 1999 impeachment of bill clinton as a model. could they force that to happen with just floor votes? >> i think with floor votes they would have a total of 51 assuming that mention didn't vote the democratic caucus. they would need five votes but 51 vote cans basically do anything in the senate in this process. it's not completely up to mcconnell as though he acts as though he is the ruler in chief of the senate. so it is possible to put pressure on him to have a real trial and i think there would be a lot of pub llic support for that. if you do that we will call hunter biden, we will out the whistle-blower. i think those are empty threats. i don't think the nation would stand for that kind of circus so i do think the democrats should press hard to make this a real trial and remember if it isn't then i think what you said earlier making this president the o.j. simpson of presidents would be his fate. that is, he would have not only a red asterisk next to his name but he would become the first president who was impeached in his first term who fundamentally was not really acquitted but just given a pass in the senate, and he would then go down in history in the way that his misconduct deserves. i think that would have effect for the future. it would make it less likely that future presidents would be as outrageously lawless as this one has been. >> and trump should remember that eventually a court did get o.j. on another thing and there are other courts out there that are looking at things donald trump does. before i let you go, val demiings, a member of congress from florida has called on mitch mcconnell to recuse himself because of what he said on fox. i think everyone doubts that's going to happen, but you had said that moscow mitch is potentially afraid of crossing vladimir putin who's oligarchs like the owner of the aluminum plants, do you believe that perhaps one of the reasons mitch mcconnell is so loyal to donald trump is that he worries about whatever it is that the russians got on the rnc and not just the dnc or sit just money? >> no, absolutely. i think money is part of it. i think he is very much beholdened to vladimir putin. i think many republicans are now and the really scary thing of how they're moving in lock step behind trump is that they are all beholdened to moscow. and trump has again invited russia to help and russia's cyber attack units have been doing a lot of mischief around the world. i think that we really need to worry about our national security. that's why the first article of impeachment talks about the president's abuse of power threatening not only the integrity of our elerkss but our national security. i think we are in a scary place. >> yeah. >> and this president really needs to be brought under control. >> indeed. i'm not a constitutional scholar as you are, sir, but i do know the one thing the framers feared the most was foreign influence on our leaders. laurence tribe, thank you, as always, for being here. >> thank you, joy. coming up, house republicans once again prove loud does not equal right. that is next. ual right. that is next i'm your mother in law. and i like to question your every move. like this left turn. it's the next one. you always drive this slow? 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[tina] you're an old lady. save hundreds of thousands of lives. but after the emergency, time and again, insurance companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders... now "big insurance" is lobbying congress. asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. this was a kangaroo court, outrageous to put the country through this. >> it is anchor man, not anchor lady and that is a scientific fact. >> you have made joe mccarthy look like a piker with what you've done with the electronic surveillance involved. >> it's terrible. she has beautiful eyes and her hair smells like cinnamon. >> i don't know what we're yelling about. >> note to republicans. screaming is not a defense. it's also really unpleasant and unwatchable unless it's on anchor man. as our next guest writes in the face of such overwhelming evidence that their boss donald trump is guilty, house republicans impeachment strategy seems to be distract, deceived. i love talking with you, curt, because you know what the other side would do. >> yes. >> let me show you doing the thing. this is -- i'm sorry. i think it might be element six. this is them yelling during the impeachment hearings. take a listen. >> they don't like the president, they don't like the president's supporters and they dislike us so much they're willing to weize the government. now it's the impeachment power of congress going after 63 million people and the guy we put in the wous. >> my question is where's your crimes? >> there's no allegation of bribery, there's no allegation of extortion. >> why aren't they in this impeachment document? because they don't exist. >> what is the point of the anchorman not anchor lady strategy? >> i think that republicans clearly understand that the facts, the truth is not on their side and so the only thing they can do is repeat the same things over and over again and each time they repeat them they have to do it louder and more emphatically because for them they only care about those ten seconds sound bites they're going to play on fox news to make it look like they weren't outrageous about something. >> are they worried they won't hear them? why are they screaming? i mean, they scream. >> because in their paradigm screaming equals strength and strength equals righteousness and righteousness equals correctness i guess. >> and maybe donald trump can't hear them. this is the other thing they've tried to do which was turn the impeachment of donald trump into a show trial of someone no one knows other than people on fox which is hunter biden. here it is. >> let's talk about what vice president biden did. this is seeking the truth about corruption. >> there was also significant reason to believe that the bidens were involved in corruption. >> the facts of mr. biden's actions in the ukraine certainly look like they crossed that line. >> it seems absurd, but this is the thing that works. when you were on the other side you know this works, that you can create a false narrative of corruption, they did it to hillary clinton around benghazi, most paem don't know where it is on a map but even liberals saying she must have done something wrong. >> benghazi is the perfect example. you have something that started with a terrorist attack on the diplomatic compound. had nothing to do with hillary clinton at all. it had to do with the four americans that were killed that night. what republicans were able to do, what we were able to do when i was there was turn it into a political theater to the point where republicans created a special committee just to investigate hillary clinton and her so called e-mails and much to hillary's critic she sat there for 11 hours. republicans also had what, 67 closed door depositions during this whole thing. >> they had more hearings on benghazi than there were about 9/11 and these were preimpeachment hearings. they were threatening to impeach her before she was even elected president. >> if hillary clinton had within the presidency, make no mistake about it within the first two years when republicans had control of the house they would have impeached her. they would have brought up the hillary foundation and the e-mails. >> if you were advising the democrats right now on what they should be doing in these impeachment hearings in order to keep the public focused and to keep republicans from being able to do a benghazi here, what would you advise them to do. >> they need to start fighting fire with fire. why aren't they responding with what about jared kushner. ivanka, why are they not playing sound bytes of republicans like gym gordon and mark meadows whether there were all for congressional oversight when they were investigating barack obama. there are a litany of sound bytes of these guys declaring that congress has authority to get documents, to compel truth, why don't they ever throw that back in their face during these hearings? >> i think they should put hank johnson in charge. he might be the only one that knows how to truly clap back. it's always great to talk to you and we will continue talking throughout this whole impeachment thing. william barr does his best to cover up another one of trump's messes. that's next. ther one of trump's messes that's next. puberty means personal space. so sports clothes sit around growing odors. that's why we graduated to tide pods sport. finally something more powerful than the funk. tide sport removes even week-old sweat odor. it's got to be tide. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. so, you bought those "good enough" paper towels? [daughter laughs] not such a bargain. there's only one quicker picker upper. bounty, the quicker picker upper. do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. this week 16-year-old climate change activist gretta th thunberg was named "time" magazine's person of the year. it enraged donald trump so much that he took to fitter and tweeted so ridiculous. gretta must work on her anger management program and go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend. so to be clear, that tweet was an attack on a 16-year-old girl, a girl who unlike the president knows that climate change is real and is fighting it with more courage and bravery than any republican politician, but wait, there's more. the trump campaign apparently so incensed tweeted out this bizarre photo shopped "time" magazine cover with donald trump's face on it. how wonderfully soviet. keep in mind this kind of cyber bullying is exactly the kind of thing that melania trump is supposed to be against. remember the outrage over the mere mention of her son's name during the impeachment hearings? well, the white house says this is totally different because her son isn't an act vus and the president and the first lady often communicate differently. they do. up next, the cover up king strikes again. t cheover up king strikes again. joyfully. ♪ hello. the united explorer card hooks me up. getting more for getting away. rewarded! going new places and tasting new flavors. rewarded! traveling lighter. rewarded. haha, boom! getting settled. rewarded. learn more at the explorer card dot com. and get... rewarded! ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. quitting smoking is freaking hard.st, like quitting every monday hard. quitting feels so big. so, try making it smaller. and you'll be surprised at how easily starting small... ...can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette and you'll experience a whole new range of emotions like... of a travel site the relaxing feeling of knowing you're getting the best price. and the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. i can read minds too. really? book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. some farms grow food. this one grows fuel. ♪ exxonmobil is growing algae for biofuels. that could one day power planes, propel ships, and fuel trucks... and cut their greenhouse gas emissions in half. algae. its potential just keeps growing. ♪ the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. do you still stand by your statement that the campaign was spied upon? >> oh, clearly spied upon. i mean, that's what electronic surveillance is i think our nation was turned on its head for three years. i think based on a completely bogus narrative that was largely fanned and hyped by an irresponsible press, and the attorney general's primary responsibility is to protect against the abuse of the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus and make sure that it doesn't play an improper role in our political life. that's my responsibility. and i'm going to carry it out. >> donald trump's hand picked chief law enforcement officer put his baghdad bob hat back on this week when he disputed the findings that the opening of the russia investigation was legitimate and that there was no spying on the trump campaign. as viewers of this show will recall, bill barr has a long history of covering up for republican presidents. he did it in 1989 when she was in charge of the justice department's office of legal counsel and misled congress by redacting a report on how the fbi handled criminal suspects in foreign countries and if you're wondering who counciled george bush to pardon the iran contragang, just look to good old bill bar, the cover up general. >> joining me now is matthew miller and justice and security analyst and former chief spokes person and msnbc legal analyst. thank you all for being here. to go to you first on this, matt, let me play you chris wray the fbi director talking about the inspector general's report and this was an interview he did on abc this week. >> based on the findings in the inspector general report, is the fush, was it part of some deep state? >> i think that's the kind of label that is a disservice to the 37,000 men and women who work at the fbi. that's not a term i would ever use. >> so the fbi did not spy on the trump campaign? >> well, that's not a term that the fbi we use to describe our work. >> do you have any evidence that the fbi targeted trump campaign unfairly? >> i don't. >> he doesn't. he is sort of in an tortured way probably because he realizes that donald trump fires people who don't tell him his conspiracy theories are true, but in the end, he agreed no, they didn't spy on the trump campaign. why the you suppose bill barr still thinks that he the go out and say things that are so blatantly untrue? >> he's a nakedly partisan warrior. that's basically the sum total of bill barr and who he is. i look at those remarks from barr and those remark from wray and i think back to when sessions and rosenstein were in the department and how discouraging it always was when the president would attack the fbi and the justice department as a deep state that was trying to do barack obama's bidding to hurt him and they would never say anything. they would never stand up and defend the career men and women doing their jobs just to follow the facts and the law. what we have now is so much worse. bill barr doesn't quit quietly. he actually joins in the attacks and i think it's important that chris wray said what he said but it's really hard for men and women that are the a the fbi and the justice department to know how they're going to carry out investigations going forward. knowing that if the results of that investigation are a result that the attorney general doesn't like he's either going to overrule their conclusions or he's going to publicly spin them or mislead the american public about what they found or he may go appoint his own investigator to go investigate them because he doesn't like either the original results or what the independent inspector general found. i think he is is doing deep, deep damage to the justice department and i think it's a grave disservice to the american people. >> let me play for you another little piece of this pete williams interview for you cynthia. take a listen. >> there could have been a lot of motivations involved and different motivations and the could have been motivations in the fbi and motivations outside the fbi by other players in this. this thing focuses on the fbi. there was a lot going on around this that is not the subject matter of the report. but i think it has a direct bearing perhaps on what was going on in the fbi. >> you know, you're a former federal prosecutor. if you heard the head of the justice department going on a pr campaign, which is what he did. he did a whole tv blitz to basically say that his own agency, the fbi was spying on the trump campaign, something that the inspector general said did not happen, and now he's saying well, i've got a different report that's going to find the motivations that he's basically saying are bad motivations of people in the fbi and you're that fbi agent and then you hear that donald trump may be again looking for foreign help and maybe again getting help from russia or forcing help from ukraine, what do you do? would you then not be concerned that if you go ahead and investigate foreign interference in our election william barr may come after you. >> i mean, you have to be concerned about that. i mean, here's the problem. the inspector general has already found that the -- the investigation was not motivated in the way that bill barr is saying it is. and he's directly saying all the work of all the people and he's throwing it in the trash. and he's added this other layer of an investigation and now he's broken all the rules because one of the rules in an investigation is you don't talk about it in the middle and he's done that. and it's a very threatening thing to the person who did the initial investigation, and it's also a way of putting his thumb on the scale with the guy who's doing the followup investigation, durham. he was talked intoish suring a press release that was completely improper. and somehow he did that. you know, i try thd case in abilene one time and i learned this expression from west texas when is god is testing brother durham. i mean, what durham should do is not issue that press release, refuse to talk about the case, and if barr insists upon it he should resign. i mean, you have to -- the department of justice regular employees have got to now take the example from the state department standing up to mulvaney and to pompeo, they have to take that example and use it. barr has been totally improper with durham. he's forced him to make this statement, or we presume we forced him because he's an honorable guy and it makes no sense he would make it. he's going with him on interviews to europe. he's getting involved in discussions with witnesses with the italians and with this professor which is totally improper. this is a guy who's never done a criminal investigation in his life and suddenly he's a lead guy with the italians and he's lying about why he has to go there saying he has to go first or they won't talk to them which is not true and durham has got to stand up to him and that's got to be true of everybody in the justice department when barr oversteps his bounds and i'm sort of over thinking barr is a bad guy. he's bad guy. and he's actually a metaphor for the entire republican party at this point. i mean, look what happened. lindsay graham used to say that trump is a racist big got and now he kisses up to him all the time. mulvaney said he was a terrible person. now he kisses up to him. so we know that's what -- that's the road the republican party is on. but the real question is, what about these people like har wits who has stood up to trump and what about durham? will he stand up to him? god is testing brother durham. >> the reality is that the record isn't good as cynthia just laid out. the record suggests that all these people will give in eventually and that means, your former boss, former attorney general eric holder has called william barr unfit to be attorney general. he's also dangerous because he has the power to send people to jail on things he just invents. should we now expect that he's going to have durham, make his guy come up with a report next summer that pretends that people in the fbi are criminals who went after the trump campaign? because that's what he wants. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. first let me say i'm from west texas so i enjoyed hearing cynthia repeat some of our homespun wisdom. i'm glad she picked it up when she was in abilene. i think you're exactly right about the attorney general. i think the most damaging thing is look, it wasn't enough apparently for bill barr when the mueller report concluded for him to publicly spin the results and for him to basically overturn the conclusions that mueller came to. remember, mueller didn't reach a conclusion on obstruction of justice. bill barr stepped in and said no, the president is cleared. it wasn't enough for him to overturn those results. now he wants to have an investigation that by summer of next year, according to his remarks going into the president's re-election campaign will say not only has the president been cleared of misbehavior but that the entire investigation itself was a witch hunt and it never should have been investigated and that the president is a vuk tictim, not d actor here. and the other part of it is, i think a lot of people missed this. the thing he's doing with john durham is trying to extend the threat to the fbi but beyond the fbi. he's looking at political appointees from the obama administration, he wants to send a signal throughout the government, if you see the president doing something wrong, do not come forward and blow the whistle but keep it quiet because if not, i will send an investigator after you when it's all over. and that is a threatening thing. >> that is i think the biggest threat, that this guy who gave a speech that indicates that he essentially is a monarchist, that he believes the president should be more powerful than congress which is the opposite of what the presidency is supposed to be, that he is a threat now to every law enforcement person and every intelligence community person that he will come after them, political prosecutions are coming, no? >> right. and not only pliolitical prosecutions but what if he doesn't like you, joy? we're going to send the irs after you. who's going to stop that? there's nobody who's willing to stop. it has to be the line prosecutors and they have to be willing to lose their jobs over it. >> absolutely and not only that but he's also essentially saying foreign interference in our election is in his mind legal as long as a republican does it. that's terrifying. nobody should investigate it. that's what william barr seems to think. >> coming up, mitch mcconnell's phone a friend impeachment strategy and that is next. stragyte and that is next. it was in this small little village- in connemara. right! connemara it is! there's one gift the whole family can share this holiday season, their story. give the gift of discovery, with an ancestrydna kit. i'm part of a community of problem solvers. we make ideas grow. from an everyday solution... to one that can take on a bigger challenge. from packaging tape... to tape that can bond materials to buildings... and planes. one idea can unlock a breadth of solutions. at 3m, we are solving problems that improve lives. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ one idea can unlock a breadth of solutions. we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. ithere's my career...'s more to me than hiv. my cause... and creating my dream home. i'm a work in progress. so much goes into who i am. hiv medicine is one part of it. prescription dovato is for adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment and who aren't resistant to either of the medicines dolutegravir or lamivudine. dovato has 2 medicines in 1 pill to help you reach and then stay undetectable. so your hiv can be controlled with fewer medicines while taking dovato. you can take dovato anytime of day with food or without. don't take dovato if you're allergic to any of its ingredients or if you take dofetilide. if you have hepatitis b, it can change during treatment with dovato and become harder to treat. your hepatitis b may get worse or become life-threatening if you stop taking dovato. so do not stop dovato without talking to your doctor. serious side effects can occur, including allergic reactions, liver problems, and liver failure. life-threatening side effects include lactic acid buildup and severe liver problems. if you have a rash and other symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking dovato and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis b or c. don't use dovato if you plan to become pregnant or during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy since one of its ingredients may harm your unborn baby. your doctor should do a pregnancy test before starting dovato. use effective birth control while taking dovato. the most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, nausea, trouble sleeping, and tiredness. so much goes into who i am and hope to be. ask your doctor if starting hiv treatment with dovato is right for you. >> this week in the united kingdom, boris johnson's conservative party won an electoral landslide that's being read as a forecast of what might happen here in 2020. johnson's win was attributed to the conservative party breaking through the u.k.'s quote, red wall by flipping seats in post industrial towns that have been held by the liberal labor party since the great depression. that echos on what happened on this side of the pond in 2016 when even though donald trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes his electoral college victory was attributed by his ability to break through the blue wall. when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com until i found out what itst it actually was.ed me. dust mite droppings! eeeeeww! dead skin cells! gross! so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy-duty dusters. duster extends to three feet to get all that gross stuff gotcha! and for that nasty dust on my floors, my sweeper's on it. the textured cloths grab and hold dirt and hair no matter where dust bunnies hide. no more heebie jeebies. phew. glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. before we talk about tax-s-audrey's expecting... new? 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[ dramatic music ]ing ] ahhhh! -ahhhh! elliott. you came back! we'll be working through this process hopefully in a fairly short period of time in total coordination with the white house counsel's office and the people who are representing the president. everything i do during this i'm coordinating with wlohout quoune will white house counsel. there is no chance that the president will be removed from office. and my hope is that there wront won't be a single republican who votes for either of these articles of impeachment. >> and with that he announced that he will be sure to acquit the defendant before the trial has even begun. in other words per legal eagle ryan goodman, the fix is in and it is in your 235face explicit. before this week we only assumed that the republicans who had no ability to stop the majority in the house would use their power in the senate to protect the man they treat as if he is their boss. we only presumed that republicans as a party have no shame, and no loyalty to anything other than the person of donald trump. not to their oath of office, not no their country. only to trump. but senator mitch mcconnell appearing on fox news made it firm official. he plans to mock the constitutional process so that trump's flunkies can acquit him. this is the same guy that was dubbed moscow mitch after they blocked election security bills earlier this year in his home state of kentucky, just happened to benefit from a sweet $200 million investment by a russian oligarch right after mcconnell and his republican friends lifted sanctions against that oligarch's companies. but i digress. we now know from mitch mcconnell itself that the fix is in for donald trump. the only thing we don't know is what voters will do, whether they will do anything toions in and house next election. joining me now, mya wiley, nick ackerman, barbara mcquaid and matthew miller, justice and security analyst for msnbc and former chief spokesman for the department of justice. thank you all for being here. and moscow mitch again after that fox news now infamous interview, which has never been walked back, vowing total coordination with the white house on the impeachment trial and we'll note for the viewers that for the first time this year, moscow mitch's party has rejected an election security bill. so keep that in mind that mitch mcconnell has made it clear that he will do nothing to do donald trump from allowing a foreign country to help him get reelected because he wants him there at any cost. he doesn't care. so joe, i want to go to you on this first. you covered bill clinton and obviously the impeachment of bill clinton, the drive to impeach him. donald trump claims that is what is happening to him. it is clearly not. but what do you think that it would -- what did bill clinton's trial do to him and for him or against him politically? >> well,ic th i think the that that he was acquitted helped him in the end. meant that the original impeachment was seen as less legitimate and it had been politically motivated in the house. gingrich and others had wanted to impeach him for a long time and they finally had a case with monica la would you sewinsky th had with whitewater and the investigations that they did. >> they were hunting for something to impeach him for. >> and ken starr was the guy that they brought into do it. remember they got rid of the original prosecutor robert fisk who was a republican but not a zealous right wing republican committed to getting clinton the way that starr was. so i think that the senate trial was ultimately beneficial to clinton and in fact there were some important moments during that trial when clinton's defenders, his defense team got up and made important powerful speeches. >> did they put on witnesses? >> no, they didn't. it was not done that way. they accepted depositions and other kinds of evidence, but there was not a trial in the sense of a criminal trial. >> right. so essentially what the clinton white house did was they put on just their defense but they didn't put on any witnesses in his defense. >> they did not. and the reason was that that was an agreement that had been reached by trent lott who mitch mcconnell is making look like a great statesman now who began a negotiation with tom daschle who was the minority at the time. and immediately after the articles of impeachment voted in the house and said we have to figure out a way do this that preserves the integrity of the senate, that serves the interests. country, and reaches whatever it reaches. and by the way, no one knew what the vote was going to be. >> it wasn't a foregone conclusion. >> no. there were definitely democrats who were disturbed at what clinton had done and wanted to have some kind of sanction imposed on him for it. short of impeachment in most cases, but even so -- and certainly republicans who felt that way. republicans who didn't think it necessarily merited litclinton' removal but again had to sanction him in some way. >> were there any republican voters to acquit or democratic votes to quikts? convict? >> as i call, there were not democratic votes to quinconvict. but arlen specter, coming from pennsylvania did not want to vote to convict and he cast a vote which he called nonproved. which he then referred to as the scottish verdict. and which confused many people. but the reason i'm bringing that up is there are republicans in the senate now who face difficulties getting reelected next year. and especially if they cast a vote to acquit donald trump. that will be a heavy vote around them. on the other hand, casting a vote to convict will cost them greatly in their base. so maybe we'll hear somebody else say they are casting the scottish votes. >> yeah, it will be interesting because we're trying to speculate on whether we think anybody will cross that line. it will be difficult for let's say a cory gardner to acquit and then go back to the voters in colorado and say donald trump said he did it, but i'm not going to -- it will be difficult for someone like him to go back and martha mcsally. but let me show you mcsally who was confronted by some of her constituents, part of a group called defend american democracy, they tried to get martha mcsalary csally to talk and here is how she responded. >> can i speak to you? >> got to head. love you guys. >> a constituent, ma'am. >> veterans just really want to have a conversation with you, senator. >> you're walking away from your constituents. why are you pretending to ignore us? we're fellow veterans. >> donald trump is violate being the oath that he swore that we swore together -- >> you're not even talking to anyone. >> and the thing is, martha mcsally didn't even win that seat, she was appointed after she lost. so she proloses statewide state. sinema won. and she now faces a reelect in which she is competing with a military veteran and she has got to now face her constituents after she probably acquits donald trump. i think about her, i think about susan collins is always concerned but never does anything. you've even got lindsey graham who is up by like two points over his democratic challenger. not a lot. so that is the politics here, right? >> yeah, the politics are quite fraught. and i think to your point, and i think i'm hearing at least from a democratic senator feeling good broke about arizona, color maine, with republicans saying you will pay at the ballot box. but that is not what we're hearing on the other side. who knows what will actually happen, but it seems like it should be one of the moments where elected leaders choose to lead. and leading should include listening to constituents on all sides. i mean, i think one of the things that stopping and talking and saying let me listen. one of the things that chuck rosenberg has said this week that was so important, a debate isn't just talking. it is also listening. and part of what we're seeing is the refusal to listen. and it seems to me that no matter how you vote and whether joe is right and there is a path to a scottish verdict, that you want to be seen as very seriously and actually having a grounded and principal position on whatever you do and being able to communicate that position. republicans have not laid out a grounded principled position yet. and i think what we saw in michigan mcconnell's statement is they are not going to. >> and i will go to the folks outside. what i called it earlier in the show, was an o.j. verdict. even people who felt that for a lot of socioeconomic reasons or a lot of racialized reasons and a lot that went into that trial, that even people who said good, he got off, they thought this was a black man dweetdiefeating justice system, even they said but he did it though. and donald trump now, being acquitted in a trial that the outcome is known, and that outcome wasn't even known, it was still a surprise verdict, but if donald trump goes into a trial at which mitch mcconnell has said don't worry, buddy, that is not acquittal. most people will look at him and go, yeah, but he did it. >> you have to keep in mind that there are a number of republicans who like the idea of foreign interference in our elections. they want to stay just where they are because they did so well in 2016. keep in mind donald trump only won the presidency by about 80,000 votes in three states -- >> 77,000. >> and pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. so there are people there who have voted down the voting rights bills that you've mentioned before. mitch mcconnell has been behind all of those. you've got mitch mcconnell in bed you said at the beginning of this segment with a person in russia who is an oligarch. but what you didn't mention is this is the godfather to paul manafort who is currently serving 7 1/2 years in prison. donald trump's campaign manager. so you have people that are in bed with the russians that are behind all of this, that if you saw this in a normal jury trial in the united states, this is like the hoffa rigging trial basically where he was bribing jurors. donald trump has been taking the jurors to camp david for entertainment, he's been calling the jurors, he's been doing everything that he can to influence the outcome on this. but some of them really are concerned that they want the russian interference. they want foreign interference because it really worked in 2016. >> and i think it is an important point because the jury is tainted even without the trips to camp david. donald trump doesn't have to take them out to his properties or whatever to taint the jury. we still haven't really delved into and the mueller report didn't delve into the broader election interference. it wasn't just helping trump, it was helping down ticket republicans. we don't know where all of that russian money went and we don't know what the russians got from the rnc attack which they also did. you've got a lot of republicans who quite frankly would benefit from further foreign interference, would benefit even on the judges from having donald trump stay until 2028 if they can get it. because they want judges, they want power, they want -- no one is an impartial juror. >> and welcome position foreiin interference is a bold being a could you sarks but it seems fair when senators are rejecting ledg legislation that would help. this simply says if russia interferences in our elections again, we will impose sanctions. an effort to deter that kind of interference. we can't stop everything from a technological perspective, we can't stop every bit of social media propaganda. but if we promise that there will be sanctions if they interfere, then maybe that will be a way to dissuade russia from interfering. but mitch mcconnell and other republicans are rejecting that he was. it is really bewildering unless as you say they are actually women comi welcoming interference because that is the way that they can hold on to power. >> it is really the worst nightmare of the founders of the country. the idea that foreign country could come to control the president of the united states let alone they didn't even think about extreme partisanship. do we now you face a situation -- let me play you lindsey graham and then i have a question on the other side. >> what i'd like to see happen is for this thing to get over as soon as possible. i don't want to give it any legitimacy because it is a croc. my goal is to end this as soon as possible for the good of the country because i think that it is a danger to the presidency to legitimize this. >> do we face the risk that that man lindsey graham also wants to end this for the good of his re-election because he thinks that foreign interference will help him stay in power and help donald trump keep feeding right wing judges on to the court? >> i think so. most of the republican senators are not quite at shameless as twrumpg is about welcoming foreign interference. but if they vote to acquit trump as it seems likely, that is basically the new normal, that is something that they have said is a legitimate thing for the president to do. the facts aren't really in dispute here in any meaningful way. you see the house republicans kind of try to dispute the facts. but when you have the president on tape on the south lawn inviting two foreign countries to investigate joe biden, everyone aside from everything else that came out in the course of the house impeachment proceedings, it is pretty clear that the president thinks that it is okay to solicit foreign interference russia if you are listening comment. so they clearly i think would quietly welcome the idea of a foreign government helping the president out, helping them out. but you can tell how concerned they are about the political ramifications of that if you ever turn a camera on and ask any one of them, is it okay for the president -- for a president, any president, to invite a foreign government to investigate his political opponents. you will never see a an opponent senator run faster. but if they vote to being a acquit trump, they have basically said that. and the challenge over the next year going into november of 2020 is to make sure that they pay a price for that, make sure that they don't get away with it. >> you talked about not having any witnesses called in the impeachment of bill clinton. the republicans are talking about either calling no witnesses, there is a political piece says no witnesses and simply allow house democrats and the president's attorneys to make their case before the public, or here is hogan gidly, spokesman for trump, their other option. >> i know that the president has made clear i wants adam schiff, the list, joe biden and many others. >> and the idea is to just turn this into a show trial of adam schiff and hunter by keidbiden. >> i don't think mcconnell wants that. he is smart enough to know that that would not work out for them. the risks of doing that are very great for the republicans because those are not necessarily good witnesses for them. i would not put joe biden on the stand to talk about what they have done to his stand in front of a national audience. i would not put adam schiff on the stand to talk about what trump and his minions have done with the russians. going back to the mueller report, right now, joy, you have rudy giuliani running around in ukraine or coming back in you a and now saying that he has all this stuff and we find out lev parnas got more russian money, got a million dollars from a russian bank while he is paying rudy giuliani the unpaid attorney who was supposedly helping. what is that? you now have blatant russian interference in this entire situation as we're approaching a senate trial and the senate is going to pretend that nothing is happening here, don't look. you know, nothing to see here. no. >> shouldn't they just then say, yes, we will have adam schiff go and testify, but we also want mick mulvaney testify, we want bolton and rudy. >> and maybe even trump's kids. >> here is what i would say from a purely strategic legal perspective. generally as a lawyer you don't ever want to call someone as a witness when you don't know what they are going to say. if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. but not because i think that there isn't reelg information that all of those witnesses who have been obstructed, one of the articles is obstruction of congress for not allowing them access -- >> could you call jonathan turley and tell him that? he didn't seem to know that. >> that is a whole other show. >> but that means there is a danger to the democrats as well to call witnesses who have not tak bean deposed. i do think the reality is what democrats should be thinking about because i would be as a lawyer is first of all, you don't want to call any witnesses we didn't get to interview. that is a fundamental premise of a fair process. so that is one thing. and if you want to call anybody then we have a right to call witnesses, period. because really what the republicans don't want, they don't want witnesses who we've already heard from who are so credible, so powerful. you want marie yovanovitch up there, you want a fiona hill? no, you don't. so i think that the thing that i said be going hard for as a democrat is you don't get witnesses unless we do. >> and if you can get them, who would you want. >> donald trump would be the first witness i'd put on the witness stand. he says the phone call is perfect. i think he could be destroyed on cross-examination or a direct exa examination. i'd be insisting donald trump be the first witness. >> he could plead the fifth. but good luck to him if that is what he wants to do. i would put him on the stand and go through all the facts with him. and let the american public see this is the guy who says he is completely innocent, he has done nothing wrong. well, if he is so innocent, why isn't he clamoring to be the first witness at this trial and that is who the democrats should serve him with a subpoena and ask justice roberts to order that he show up in the senate well to give testimony on this impeachment. >> and let me give barbara the same question. if you had one witness and you were able to trade them for getting adam schiff or whatever, who would it be? >> i think rudy giuliani. i think that he knows where the bodies are buried. if you can get him to testify truthfully, i think that he could tell you about all the negotiations with ukraine. it is not just a call. there is months' long of scheming that went on as well. and what you a he is so uncareful, he'd probably slip in other crimes that president trump has committed as well. >> and first of all, the tv show of donald trump -- we've heard him talk. and rudy giuliani, we've heard how he talks. testifying for donald trump? oh, my god, that would put the -- the forcing the glove on moment in the o.j. trial, it would put that to the back burner. i think they should take your advice. joe, my a wiley, nick, barbara, matthew, great panel. and coming up, the supreme court shell game. supreme court shell game in america, the zip code you're born in can determine your future. but no matter what neighborhood you grow up in, the y creates opportunities for all. for a better us, donate to your local y today. the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. for a limited time, get a outb4-course meal your holidays even better! starting at $15.99. treat yourself to the perfect gift today, because the aussie 4-course won't last long! and try our everyday lunch combo starting at $7.99! save hundreds of thousands of lives. but after the emergency, time and again, insurance companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders... now "big insurance" is lobbying congress. asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. let's say someone were to retire at the end of this year leading into the summer, you have been very clear if the president appointed somebody, you would follow through on that nomination. >> absolutely. we definitely would do that. >> i was shocked that former president obama left so many vacancies. >> i'll tell you why, i was in charge of what we did the last two years of the obama administration. >> and i will give you full credit for that. and by the way, take a bow. >> the self-proclaimed grim reaper of the snath thinks it is so funny how he warped the courts. but he has no problem fill being the supreme court for mr. trump even though he blocked judge merrick garland from getting a single hearing. mcconnell agreed that it shouldn't be filled during an election year. but the real scandal is the grim logic namely that only his party should be able to fill the federal courts. joining me now is ryan goodman, law professor. thank you very much for being here. i want to play you what i think is the most chilling thing that mitch mcconnell has said since he's been in power. here it is. >> one of my proudest moments is when i looked at barack obama in the eye and i said mr. president, you will not fill this supreme court vacancy. >> and yet this is the same guy who said that we will plow through on the kavanaugh confirmation and who now says that they get it open and they are going to fill it. with you just walk us through this logic of mitch mcconnell that basically only republicans are allowed to put people on the federal courts? >> so it goes with the same logic where people are saying that they would block hillary clinton on the republican side if she were president of putting everybody on the supreme court. it really is partisan lines. and in 2016, part of the deal there by blocking president trump's nominee for the courtlele made it court l also made it an election issue. so he is actually saying the supreme xhourt is court is on td vote in november 2016 because we're going to cap xhur the court. >> and harry reid famously had to end the filibuster rule because mcconnell was blocking not just merrick garland, they were blocking everyone. they would not allow the president of the united states to fill any vacancies. >> that's right. and what is extraordinary, you look at the numbers, and in his third year, president trump now has 50 circuit judges that have gone on to the bench whereas obama only had 55 in eight years. >> and the quality of these judges is the other issue. they are far right wing, they tend to be very young. and in some cases they are deemed unqualified by their own colleagues. this is just one headline. senate confirms trump's 50th circuit judge despite a not qualified rating, trump nominee who was anti-surrogacy. and there is a guy that just got confirmed that was deemed in every way by his own colleagues to be arrogant, to be self satisfied, feel self deserving and not fit to be a judge and they krug cjust confirmed him t. >> a fundamental makeover of the federal circuit. and one quarter of all circuit judges right now are trump appointees. think about how that is remaking the kuchb. and like you said, the white house just boasted last month that the average age of the trump appointees are under 50 years old. >> and are you able to just in your reporting, is this more about controlling the culture down the road saying that the culture is becoming more permissive and more liberal for gay people, for trans people, becoming more liberal in terms of race. and so we're going to hold the line in the courts, we're going to say there you can't change anything, we'll stop the progress. is it more about that or is it more about donald trump's pecuniary interests, lets s's s his taxes and he wants to stop the release. >> i think that it is mitch mcconnell's game which means that it is the 50 year game and that means that they are trying to as under, they are trying to put a brake on where the country is otherwise going. it is an anti democratic break and that is why he blocked president obama for two years and why he is on a fast track to try to fill as many of these court positions as possible under trump and hawith very you people. >> and it is frightening that he is doing that and then you have the attorney general william barr saying in speeches that the country -- sort of mocking the progressives in the country and accusing progressives of trying to take over a country that liberalish thinking on the culture is the majority. >> that's right. and bash is saying this in the most partisan terms possible which is extraordinary for the united states attorney general to be talking about it in partisan terms. and he is doing to the federalist society and where are those judges coming from, federalist society approved judges. so that is the architecture of this. it is mcconnell, barr, the b brains behind the operation. >> what is the risk then? let's say that they take over, which they are doing the federal courts, walk us through what that means for the average immigrant, for the average muslim, for the average person who way gay or trans or lesbian. >> it means a huge regression on all of those issues. and it also means voter suppression. it means gerrymandering and supporting that, it means supporting a lot of wealth and money coming into the republican side on elections. because of things like citizens united. on all these fronts, it changes what americans can do, it changes rights for americans. especially lgbt americans, immigration rights, all of it across the board. these are the very people that would stand in their way of having democratic choices to make on these issues. >> didn't they used to call that judicial actity vi tivismactivi? when they thought it meant more rights. >> exactly. >> ryan goodman, thank you very much for being here. coming up, senator michael bennett joins me next to discuss impeachment. to discuss impeachment. do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging? prevagen is the number one pharmacist-recommended memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. ever since darrell's family started using gain flings, their laundry smells more amazing than ever. ah, honey! isn't that the dog's towel? hey, me towel su towel. there's more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze odor remover in every fling. gain. seriously good scent. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. save hundreds of thousands of lives. but after the emergency, time and again, insurance companies deny coverage, second guessing doctors, nurses and first responders... now "big insurance" is lobbying congress. asking for restrictions on air medical services. eliminating patients' access to life-saving care and destroying jobs all in exchange for bigger profits for insurance companies. tell congress, put patients first, not big insurance. joining me now is 2020 presidential candidate senator michael bennett. thank you so much for your time. >> thanks, joy. >> so there is an impeachment trial at least in theory coming up in the senate. i want to get your comment on the leader of the senate mitch mcconnell saying that he is going to ensure that donald trump is acquitted. what do you make of that? >> i mean, it is embarrassing. not only did he say that, but i don't have exactly the language, but he said something like i'm going to follow the president's lawyers lead. that is not what the majority leader of the senate is supposed to do. this is an overnight responsibility that we have and i guess it is not surprising, but it is embarrassing that he would say these things. >> and the second article of impeachment is the one that would seem from the play person's perspective to be the most potentially tempting to a republican senator. people in the senate tend to understand sort of the graphdy gravity of their own power. so the idea of being a co-equal branch of government in a sense kind of looms larger for a senator. do you know of any senators who could possibly say that if you obstruct the president, you obstructed the senate, i might vote at least on that article, vote yes on it? >> you would hope so. i mean, you know, there were some republicans, not many, but there were some republicans who wanted president declared his fake emergency to reprogram money for the wall, there was some republicans that said no, that is congress' job, we have the power of the purse. and just like they asserted independence then, maybe they will do it again. but it is a testament to how much the republican party has become donald trump's party that majority leader mcconnell feels the need to say publicly that he will follow the leefd the president's lawyers. >> and we've seen prepublicans once again vote down an election security bill, the third time. it is the reason that mitch mcconnell is called moscow mitch. are you concerned that some of your colleagues on the republican side actually want there to be at least enough foreign interference to keep themselves and donald trump in power. >> i am really concerned about this. i mean, who in the world doesn't want to know what senator won't vote for an election protection bill to keep us safe from russian aggression. and there is only unfortunately one person in america who could let that vote go through and that is mcconnell. i think even people in kentucky should be discouraged about the fact that mcconnell doesn't want people to know who supports election protection and who supports the russians continuing to interfere. it is crystal clear that the ukranians had nothing to do with the 2016 election and that the russians not only interfered, but interfered in a way that was actually material and continue to interfere today. you would think it would be the most basic responsibility of an elected official in washington to vote for election protection legislation and i hope these guys pay a real price at the polls for what they are doing. they have exposed america, they have kept us at risk when the intelligence agencies are all telling us that the russians are attacking us right now. >> we know that mitch mcconnell's state got $200 million in money from the oligarch after he led the he relaxation of sanctions on him. but we won't go into that. i want to play you a sound bite of lindsey graham of south carolina this morning from doha. take a listen. >> if you wonder what is going to happen in washington, impeachment will be over probably by mid-january. personally i think president trump will come out of this stronger. >> what do you make of lindsey graham? i don't know how long you've known him, but -- >> i've known him a long time. we worked on the gang of eight together in 2013 writing theism gra immigration bill that got called by the freedom caucus. and we did some good would, on that bill together. but he has become a guy who is just the number one defender of donald trump no matter are what it is he does. >> and do you worry that donald trump is intimidating him into it? or was he always this guy and just a sycophant whoever is in power? >> no, i think that sometimes, you know, lindsey graham has an incredible survival instinct and i think he is trying to avoid a primary in south carolina and the best way to avoid a primary these days is to support the great leader on cable television so he can see you doing it out there. it is really too bad because this guy is so far outside the mainstream of conventional american political fodder, i'm talking about trump now, and what we would expect from a president. that we've got to find a way to elevate the standards again. and even if he is not convicted of what he has done in the senate, i hope that what comes out of this is a reassertion by the democracy about why the rule of law is important and that no president should be above it. trump obviously doesn't care about that, he doesn't believe in democracy. the rest of us that do believe in democracy can't have a democracy that works if we don't subscribe to the rule of law. and that is really what is at stake in this impeachment. but i would say it is also what is at stake as people go to the polls in 2020. >> senator michael bennet, thank you so much for your time this morning. >> thanks, joy. coming up yyou next, the ma teaching america its history. a. then i realized something was missing... me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms 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[daughter laughs] not such a bargain. there's only one quicker picker upper. bounty, the quicker picker upper. 200 years our nation's history we had one impeachment. andrew johnson. for 200 years. and you now in less than 50 years, we're on our third. which is really unfortunate i believe. i think that they are lowering the bar, they are making this too you routine. and i think that is very dangerous because when you have i think in the near future when you have a president and you have a house of different parties, we're going to see this more and more often. >> if the republicans want to talk about andrew johnson, let's talk about andrew johnson. my next guest pointed out in an epic twitter thread that there is a lot from the impeachment of andrew johnson that is more than relevant right now. joining me now is michael harriet from the root.com. i'll start by reading you some of this. you wrote about andrew johnson, johnson was also dumb. seriously, he might be the only president dumber than trump. after he became president, he went around the country holding political rallies where he just talked about himself and in one speech he referred to himself 200 times. he called his opponents traitors. and the disasters toward one of the major reasons republicans were wiped out in the elections. and donald trump tweets so-called leaks coming out of the white house are massive overexthink a raover over overexage races blah, blah, blah. what other symmetries could you find between trump and mr. johnson? >> besides the majority party or the president's party being white dot in the midterm elections, johnson was a president who overlooked and excused white supremacy which was really the singular issue in why he was impeached. we like to point to the arcane legislation called the tenure act, but the reason the tenure act was enacted was because johnson refused to send his secretary of war stanton down to stop these white supremacist talks on blacks who were getting their rights to vote. so johnson was the original both sides guy. he wanted to appease the confederates and wanted to allow them back into the union. and there are so many similarities between johnson and, you know, when donald trump is impeached, it might come down to one vote which is exactly what johnson's impeachment came down to. so there are so many similarities between these two presidents and it turns out both got impeached. >> and i think it is so are arcane in history, the thing about andrew johnson to remember is as you said, he was the running mate for abraham lincoln as sort of a bipartisan ticket, but after lincoln was assassinat assassinated, he wanted to excuse the south. he wanted to stop black people from becoming full citizens. and can you just walk us through -- so he got impeached because of that, right? because he tried to stop the federal government from helping black citizens. >> right. so after lincoln was assassinated, johnson became president. you have to remember link ccoln tried to keep the union together by choosing a running mate from the opposite party. so johnson was a southern white democrat who was a slave owner. so what he wanted to do is let the confederate states back into the union because remember, they aren't a part of the united states without any repercussions for turning into white supremacist traders. so the congress tried to do is at least require them to ratify the 14th amendment which made black people full citizens of the united states remember. and you also have to give them the right to vote. and at least stop this white supremacist violence. and johnson refused to do that. and his secretary of war was going to do it because remember, most of these attacks were on black union soldiers. and in the two particular ones that were most egregious was in new orleans and memphis where people just attacked black union soldiers for trying to vote. and in memphis for just existing. and that is what prompted johnson's impeachment because he refused to send his secretary of war down to stop this kind of violence from taking place. >> and down to the fact that they are so symmetrical down to the pardons. so you have -- this is another tweet from you. johnson wanted to go easy on the con t f confederate states. and the kkk because founded in the state he represented. and he offered amnesty to confederates anxio s and pardonr crimes. and fast forward to trump, eddie gallagher allegedly stabbed and murdered a prisoner and he said he's not going to have his pin taken away. but can you talk about the two parties flipping? because i think that is a key part of it. a lot of people hear that and they think of the current democratic and republican parties, they were so different down to radical republicans would have been the squad now. >> right. and so we have to remember that beginning in 1948 is when republicans started shifting from the democratic party -- to the democratic party simply because the democrats back then, the party of racism, wanted to keep segregation in place and so the only choice that those democrats had were to leave the republican party and first they tried to become what they called dixie crats. that didn't work. and that is how the democrats back then became the republicans of today. and so they were always the party of racism. and back then, there was a group of senators led by senator stevens who really wanted to give blacks the right to vote and all of their rights. and one of the reasons that we have all of these constitutional amendments, the 13th amendment which limg na eliminated slavery, 14th that gave black people the right to be citizens, the 15th amendment which gave all the right to vote. is because stevens really wanted to eliminate all of that with one sentence that says all people are equal under the law. johnson wouldn't have it. and that is why stevens' version of the 14th amendment never became the law and that is also why a lot of the republican senators in the impeachment trial acquitted johnson because there was this divide between stevens branch and what they call the moderate republicans. and so that is how johnson didn't get ousted from the presidency even though he was a white supremacist. >> by one vote. history is fascinating. thaddeus stevens, very understand rated. y under rated. thank you very much for being here. and coming up, i'll tell you more about another disgraced president next. ther disgredac president next thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients. patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. ibrance may cause severe inflammation of the lungs that can lead to death. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including trouble breathing, shortness of breath, cough, or chest pain. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. be in your moment. ask your doctor about ibrance. the wait is over. t-mobile is lighting up 5g nationwide. while some 5g signals go only blocks, t-mobile 5g goes miles... beyond the big cities to the small towns... to the people. now, millions of americans can have access to 5g on t-mobile. and this is just the beginning. t-mobile, the first and only nationwide 5g network. and you'll experience a whole new range of emotions like... of a travel site the relaxing feeling of knowing you're getting the best price. and the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. i can read minds too. really? 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[ deep inhale] freshen up. don't cover up. febreze. doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. . to continue the fight through the months ahead for my personal vindication would almost totally absorb the time and attention of both the president and the congress in a period when our entire focus should be on the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity. dlfr, i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. >> richard nixon was forced to resign because he cheated to get reelected. men acting on his behalf, on behalf of his election campaign, hired ex-cia agents to break into the offices of the democratic party months before the election. they stole documents and bugged the office's phones to try to help nixon beat george mcgovern. and then nixon and members of the white house tried to cover it up. that was watergate. the bitter irony and the waste is that nixon was going to win anyway and he did big time. so really he did all that for nothing just because he was afraid that he would be out of power. nixon of course didn't wait for impeachment. make no mistake, once the tapes proving his guilt came out, he knew the house would impeach and the senate would convict him. so instead after the house judiciary committee approeprove articles of impeachment, he radio sign resigned. but in that final televised speech, he expressed more concern about the country than about himself. and frankly, more concern about americans and what america is supposed to be than donald trump ever has in his entire life. in fact, no president has ever been accused before now of using foreign governments to cheat to get reelected. everyone the worst preside even the worst presidents we've had is not accused of that. and republicans having declared that their loyalty is only to trump, the guy who doesn't care about you or your right to choose your own president without foreign interference, your right to is have your congress' decisions on how to spend your tax money respected, the right of your congress to exercise their rightful power to be a check and balance on the president, the fact that so many republicans almost all of them either sit there in this obedient pathetic silence or even back him up when donald trump declares that he can do anything he wants, declares basically that he is a king, not just a president, that he can get any country he wants to help him stay in office. and what are you going to do about it? the fact that this man even jokes that he might never leave, th or if he loses, we'll have a second civil war. the fact that the republicans applaud like puppets, that is not a democracy. and this time next year, we'll either have a democracy the one nixon upheld by having the dig knit t dig knit at this time to leave, or we won't. t this time to leav or we won't. and the gastroenterologists who developed it. 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(vo) go with align. the pros in digestive health. and try align gummies. with prebiotics and probiotics to help support digestive health. we don't see who you're against, through or for,rs, whether tomorrow will be light or dark, all we see in you, is a spark we see your spark in each nod, each smile, we see sparks in every aisle. we see you find a hidden gem, and buying diapers at 3am. we see your kindness and humanity. the strength of each community. we've seen more sparks than we can say. about 20 million just yesterday. the more we look the more we find, the sparks that make america shine. some things are too important to do yourself. ♪ get customized security with 24/7 monitoring from xfinity home. awarded the best professionally installed system by cnet. simple. easy. awesome. call, click or visit a store today. that is our show for today. i'll be back tomorrow morning at 10:00. up next is alex witt. >> thank you for that history lesson in the terms of current culture. that was really great. >> it is funny, because we talk so much about watergate, but i think sometimes we forget how simple it was. just cheating to win. and trump has done the same thing. >> and you talk about the dignity that nixon resigned for the good of the country. okay, joy, see you tomorrow. very good day to all of you from right here at msnbc world headquarters. just about high noon here, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to weekends with alex witt. the next battle begins, the historic impeachment vote leads to a senate trial that could escalate the partisan conflict. rudy giuliani talking big about his secret assignment in ukraine. this hour, a new theory about why we haven't heard specifics about what he is found. and defending the president overseas, the first daughter and two trump allies speaking out about impeachment thousands of miles from home. plus michelle obama and melania trump both responding now after the president took to twitter to attack greta thunberg. you will hear what they are all saying. developing at this hour, one of the president's big

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