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bit, i'm feeling fine now. >> happy to have you back. the looking good. >> oh, thank you. >> you're "outnumbered." >> i am. thank you very much. good to be here. >> president trump's legal team taking on tougher tone to deal with special counsel robert mueller, his new attorney rudy giuliani explaining why he doesn't want the president to sit down for an interview with robert mueller. >> because they are trying to trap, you couldn't put a lawyer on the show who wants to keep his law license to tell you to testify. they don't have a case on collusion or obstruction, they are asking all kind of questions about what do you feel and think. i will walk him into prosecution for perjury? >> giuliani was asked if he believes the president could be forced to testify before a grand jury, watch what he said. >> we don't have to, he's the president of the united states. we can assert the same privilege as other presidents have. >> are you confident the president will not take the fifth in this case?
>> how could i be confident of that? >> short time ago our own judge andrew weighed in on the legal argument, watch. >> i don't blame him for making that argumenta, that's his job to make it, he's been making it extensively over the weekend, but history shows that presidents, when subpoenaed by grand jurys, one way or another, do comply. >> charlie hunt, what say you? >> charlie: you know, this rudy giuliani thing, i keep referring as the shock in all legal strategy. you have no idea what, i mean, he is all over the place, but the bottom line is, you know, he is right about one thing, he needs to prevent the president from testifying. if he walks in and sits down under oath with mueller and his team, it absolutely will be perjury trap and i'm sure the president would be delighted to go and talk to them and -- because the president always
fraud case against paul manafort, judge ellis telling mueller, you don't care about mr. manafort's bank fraud, but what information mr. manafort can give you that would reflect on mr. trump or lead to prosecution or impeachment or whatever, that is what you are really interested in. here is reaction to former -- from a former federal attorney joe digenova, part of the president's legal team at one time and rudy giuliani. watch. >> i do, i believe that after judge ellis' remarks last night, there is no question that the amount of government misconduct is accumulating. it is greater than anybody realizes. >> this investigation reached level of bad faith, no longer a good faith investigation. >> all right, so is this no longer good faith investigation and was that federal judge right to call manafort's team out -- not manafort, mueller's team out, rather?
>> charlie: i from the beginning don't believe this was good-faith investigation. clearly it wasn't when we started to see the charges coming out. not all charges against paul manafort have nothing to do with donald trump or his actions with the campaign. it has to do with things from the past that okay, i'm in favor of prosecuting somebody for anything, breaking laws. so, you know, you didn't need a political investigation, special prosecutor in order to go after these things, these things should have been gone after a long time ago by regular white collar crime prosecutors. >> best lin from t.s. ellis iii, he said, he is asking for more evidence from the memo, right? >> the actual memo. >> he went back to d.o.j. saying i need evidence from the mueller team. they are saying, we have it. he said, let me be the judge of that. he may end up being a big player in this entire thing. what he's saying, what evidence
look at rod rosenstein, he's the guy who laid out the case for firing james comey and the one that appoints special counsel to give mueller broad authority to look at things like obstruction of justice, for instance. again, he laid out the case to fire james comey. look at the fact we know that james clapper wanted comey to sit down and brief president trump about the dossier and that meeting is leaked to the press, right? we know james comey himself was one that said the was looking for a news hook to publish the dossier. nobody could verify the dossier, including own intelligence, as well, could not verify the dossier. then the run with the dossier and from there on it has been rampant in the media about russia collusion. how can you look at some of these things and not be concerned objectively regardless what your position on the president is, that should be deeply concerning. >> like a movie trailer for what is going on. >> but it is true. where is rod rosenstein?
>> do we know enough about the parameters of this investigation? >> no, we don't. i mean, i think that is why judge ellis wants to see "the memo," and understand the scope of the investigation. and it is the political critics of the president are actually waiting in the wings, hoping the manafort investigation can yield impeachment, what happens when it doesn't? >> right. >> no accountability for the wasted taxpayer money and all of this time and all of the damage that it has done to potentially the office by becoming that shiny object that the media likes so much like to focus on. >> then the political fall-out from going after paul manafort, he wasn't a good guy. >> he wasn't a good guy. >> he may be compromised, but is it worse this obsession, this constant obsession that really does -- >> he broke the law, separately, as they are doing with michael cohen and others, separately go after him. why keep one case and not the
other? that is a very fair question. >> yeah, where is rod rosenstein, charlie, in this he he kroeted this memo that led to the investigation. >> charlie: last week he went aggressively and said they will not be extorted, basically accusing his bosses, in the white house and congress of trying to extort the department of justice, which i think is a crime, but -- >> i think extortion in general >> charlie: exactly. amazing thing to think about. >> to your point, charlie, it doesn't exactly boost confidence in the d.o.j. or the f.b.i. >> charlie: no. >> that is severely lack nothing contentuous confirmation. >> i watch your show 8 p.m. eastern and i sometimes will hear you say about, you know, where this investigation is. why do you think it is that we are at a point now where people aren't necessarily waiting or looking at the evidence, but waiting to be told? is it because there has been so
much focus on this? >> apparently, yes, so problematic and out of hand and so all-consuming and i hope everyone steps back and asks themselves, is this the function of an investigative counsel? is this what we put so much faith and money and time, endless time and money into special counsel? >> charlie: the clock is ticking, we get closer to mid-term, mueller is about to pull a comey and wind up being in the middle of an election doing this -- >> i don't know which part, leak or which part of comey? >> charlie: having a huge major high-profile investigation in the middle of an election. you don't want that. >> trying to get people to flip flop and it will not happen. president trump throwing full support behind his pick to head the c.i.a. talking about that ahead of her confirmation hearing that is happening wednesday. the white house says gina haspel is victim to bring down one of
the president's nominees. plus, president trump accusing former secretary of state john kerry of potentially breaking the law, after reports mr. kerry was meeting secretly with the iranians in an effort to save that iran nuke deal. former secretary kerry responding. >> john kerry. [booing] >> president trump: not the best negotiator we've ever seen. never walked away from the table, except to be in that bicycle race. >> this program is brought to you by lear capital.
the signal reaches down here, too. so sophie, i have an xfi password, and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. >> harris: we are back with the fox news alert, 48 hours ahead of critical confirmation hearing, president trump has come out swing og behalf of his pick to head the c.i.a., gina haspel. the president tweeting this, my highly respected nominee gina haspel has come under fire because she was too tough on terrorists. think of that in these dangerous times. we have the most qualified person, a woman, who democrats want out because she's too tough on terror. win gina. this comes after reports mrs. haspel considered withdrawing on friday. short time ago, white house source weigh nothing on that report saying haspel did discuss withdrawing, but was bouncing her concern off white house officials, who are guiding her
through the process. haspel faces stiff criticism from democrats and some republicans, even in her role in enhanced interrogation procedure. love your take, kennedy, i know you have something to say about this. democracy, president trump won the election, should pick the people he wants in top positions. >> kennedy: absolutely, that is what the hearings are for, vet these people, get a sense of who they are and challenge them on past and present positions. certainly her personal history. and hiding behind the fact that much of her work histories classified is not enough. there are some very serious questions that need to be raised about those sites, particularly the ones she oversaw in thailand and two senators, whom i think are good on civil liberty, white and rand paul raised concerns about her and i hope senators take careful time and deliberation. we have, as we were just talking
about, such erosion of trust and law enforcement and with the c.i.a. we can't just say, you know, she's a woman, she's been there a long time and that is enough. that is not enough. it doesn't matter who the candidate is. if there are questions about their past, those need to be raised and thoroughly answered. >> and be taken to that hearing, this comes charlie, after admiral ronny jackson was dragged through the mud publicly. what does it say about where we are that you have a lot of public servants that want to withdraw their names before being put up before a hearing. it is sad. >> charlie: kennedy, you are right and i would like answers to the questions, as well. sadly, you could probably count on one hand the number of democrats or republicans in the senate who actually care about those things and want the answers to those questions. the real thing, they don't like her because donald trump nominated her and want to do anything they can to undermine him by stopping her.
obviously they are not doing -- haven't yet gone into any of the personal stuff the way we saw with ronny jackson, but i think politically speaking, again, setting aside the good questions you raised, the politically speaking, this is a great fight for trump to have. especially when he's in the middle of negotiating with north korea, talking about iran. major things going on. this is a great -- >> i would say that it is okay for him in your argument, to have that, but for the democracy itself, maybe not so much. >> charlie: agreed. >> kennedy: we've got open seats of more than 100, i was at the going away event for the german ambassador, what -- >> rick ranel. >> kennedy: he was thanking people for support, he waited so long to get confirmed. i agree with kennedy, we need a venue to ask about the black sites and a venue to get thoughtful questions. i don't know if a hearing will
get us further than other public hearings have. we need vetting and do it expeditiously. what granel wants to do. he will be pretty busy with germany and iran and korea and all that, pretty busy with that, but when he can, he wants to fight against a can sept everything has to go through the senate and congress for confirmation. can there be some jobs where you have thoughtful review and not have it be a political fight. >> i thought it was interesting. >> he would know, he's been through it. >> lisa, sarah sanders did say this, everyone fighting for women empowerment are hypocrites saying gina haspel can't go up. >> it makes me laugh, using democrats against them. anything sexist, if they disagree, they label you something horrific and you are likely not. i think it is kind of funny to use that against the democrats. if you are not going to support the first female c.i.a.
director, you are sexist or don't believe in women's empowerment. the trump administration has a strong case to be made here. look, gina haspel has been part of the c.i.a. since 1985, as long as i've been alive and on this earth. she's had the endorsement -- >> charlie, we feel old. [laughter] >> she also has support of every individual who served in the intelligence committee, former directors, deputy directors, as well, and i do think if democrats vote against her largely for political reasons, not like kennedy laid out and having real concerns and questions for her. it is political. we saw that play out with mike pompeo when democrats voted for him for c.i.a. director and didn't support him as secretary of state. come on. >> at least have the hearing. great point. it is on wednesday, we'll see what happens there. >> coming up on the show, final push by supporters and critics of the iran nuclear deal ahead of political dead let line coming this saturday. top diplomat is making official during a two-day stop in
washington, plus amid the good vibes ahead of historic summit between president trump and the north korean dictator, rogue nation is lashing out at the u.s., what is this about and does it put that meet nothing jeopardy? reid lamberty i won't use the rhetoric then, i'm trying to calm it down a little bit. i will not use the rhetoric.
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with new creations like savory crab-topped shrimp, and parmesan truffle shrimp scampi you better hurry in before shrimp trios is gone. >> harris: fox news alert now. last ditch effort by u.s. allies to influence president trump before the deadline to keep the u.s. in the iran nuclear deal. a short time ago boris johnson met with new secretary of state mike pompeo. earlier making his case for the agreement this morning on fox and friends. watch. >> the president has a legitimate point, he set a challenge for the world. we think that what you can do is be tougher on iran, address the
concerns of the president and not throw the baby out with the bath water. not junk the deal. as i say, plan b does not seem to me to be particularly well developed at this stage. >> the visit by the u.k. top diplomat ahead of the may 12 deadline for the president to decide whether he will keep the u.s. in the deal. meanwhile, a top republican is urging the president to stick with the agreement, congressman thornberry chairs the armed services committee. watch. >> the key question is, okay, now we are where we are, what happens next if the u.s. pulls out? maybe the best thing is for the president to delay a bit more, his deadline of this month, and put the french and the british up to the test about whether it is possible to get this other sort of agreement. >> harris: okay, one side, charlie, delay things and work on a contingency plan and bring more people and europe onboard.
what do you think about the reports of shadow diplomacy with the former secretary of state, john kelly? i mean, does that help our government? help our cause to have him in the back wings saying no, no, no, keep the deal and no. >> charlie: no, it is breathtaking, the idea, john kerry wants to put oar in the water on this, not because he hasn't already, he came up with a crappy deal to begin with, call up the secretary of state and lobby him. the idea that john kerry would go behind secretly negotiate with the leader of a country that wants to annihilate us, remove us from the map of the world, and secretly negotiate with them to undermine u.s. foreign policy, which is being set by the president and unlike john kerry, who tried and failed, donald trump ran for president and got elected president and gets to set the policy. >> you know what makes sense, makes him the jane fonda of the
middle east, not kidding about that. >> charlie: it is true. >> something unethical and underheadd and put politics aside, foreign policy and diplomacy is straight from domestic politics. put that aside and go ahead -- >> it is a little back and forth. >> charlie: donald trump won the election run og this issue, that is another important thing to remember, as well. >> harris: the president tweeted, he likes to do that. he did. the united states does not need john kerry's possibly illegal shadow diplomacy on the badly negotiated iran deal. he was the one that created this mess in the first place, exclamation point. back and forth and then john kerry spokesperson, very busy, i think every american would want every voice possible to urge iran to remain in compliance with the agreement that prevented a war. all right, i want to get my head around the spokesperson's response, though, lisa, it is saying two different things. it is not saying stay in the
deal, it is not just saying that, but it averted a war. talk to me. >> lisa: based on recent intelligent from israel that came to light, the intelligence community has known about for a while that the entire deal was basically predicated on a bunch of lies, right? built on a bunch of lies from iran itself. to charlie's point real quick regarding john kerry. it is a little hypocritical going back and looking at some accusations on michael flynn when he was part of an income administration talking about sanctions with the russian ambassador, pretty much standard operating procedure considering the fact he is part of an incoming administration, hypocrisy -- but for president trump, three main concerns with the iran deal, ballistic missile, verification, what they have on the ground and the sunset clauses, as well. we know that even president macron share the concerns. the question is what do we do and can we strengthen the deal.
>> harris: i don't know if concerns from macron and certainly not from the actual german chancellor, angela merkel, we know she wouldn't see it this way, if the concerns were sincere enough to drive a new deal. sure, they are there. i would add a fourth, we don't know the side deal. >> that is absolutely right. you don't know. when it comes to iran, there are no good options and talking about john kerry, this is his legacy, the iran deal is his entire baby. look back on his tenure of secretary of state, biggest thing he left behind. for him, a lot of this is personal. he's nervous the president is going to end the deal that is all he can -- during that time in office. it is ego. dealing with iran is more than ego. iran is the biggest threat to the united states for a number of reasons and no good options are on the table. either change the deal and if the president says he is negotiator and chief to practice negotiating skills. >> harris: how about everybody
else, like republicans, like thornberry, you can't step away from this deal. how about doing shadow deal building? plan b, i don't know. >> the same thing about the kind that is legal and patriotic within the walls of the congress in the united states. >> some other ideas. >> i know we're about to talk about north korea, but there are a lot of similarities here and the biggest issue with iran is not them having a nuclear weapon, it is having hedge moany and having a relationship with north korea, having stake in syria, absolutely, it is also funding hezbollah and human rights violations, among other things. you know, those elements were completely sidelined in crafting of this deal to the detriment of not only middle east, but -- >> you have people like rice who said it wouldn't be the end of the world if we did pull out. some people are pushing president trump to stay in it. it wouldn't be the end of the world.
>> that is different information, he wants to do what he wants to do. >> dream big. >> north korean lashing out at u.s. ahead of a planned summit between president trump and kim jong-un. the news agency says washington is "misleading public opinion by claiming u.s.-led sanctions pressured the regime to make denuclearization pledge," and it warns the u.s. not to deliberately provoke the north by deploying strategic assets in south korea and raising human rights issues. just days ago president trump said he's taking steps to reduce tension with the regime. watch. >> president trump: we're really doing well with north korea. we're really doing well. [applause] >> president trump: remember, they said, it's going to be terrible, they were actually saying, three months ago when the rhetoric was rather sharp. do we agree? i won't use the rhetoric, i'm trying to calm it down a little bit. i will not use the rhetoric. >> no rhetoric. >> harris: let's talk about this, kim jong-un is essentially
a sociopath, throwing a fit about the big wheel, the big gun, his nuclear program. it is not a surprise they are pushing back in this way through the state-run news agency, but does it actually, is this sort of volley that we should expect leading up to the summit or is this problematic? >> charlie: the fact there hasn't been more quite frankly, surprises me. because of course, you would expect this and you're exactly right, kim jong-un is a tyrant and you can't trust a word he says. that is why, i said, anybody in negotiations with lunatic like this, good to have like somebody like donald trump, i have more faith in him than i would say john kerry going into the negotiations. the reason is because as we saw with iran, he didn't address things we care most about, he gave them bundles and bundles of money and billions -- >> literally. not even metaphorically. >> charlie: funding terror
efforts around the world. i do believe donald trump will walk away if he doesn't get what he wants and i believe that he will go in there and genuinely try to drive a real good bargain. >> can i ask you a question? you have diplomacy in your family. >> i've lived in those neck of the woods. >> and through your dad, the ambassador. when you look at what has been accomplished so far, it still far ahead of anything we have seen. >> kennedy: historic. we should all take a step back and realize where we are at this moment. the fact that north and south korea, kim jong-un stepped foot on south korean soil, first time in decades, that is a huge deal. you have to remember what is going on in the head of kim jong-un, right? in his mind, of course he's not wanting to give president trump credit for this happening, in his mind, he's accomplished what his dad and granddad have been pushing for years and years, developing nuclear program, right? now he says we can hang with the big guys, as nuclear country, so we
are now able to open up to the west, they still want to remain that strong voice and strong power, so the president has to be careful. >> harris: can you do both? >> kennedy: i think you can. does it really matter if it was sanctions and the pressure and -- >> harris: it does to him. it does to kim jong-un. >> charlie: and to donald trump. >> kennedy: say we give him that one, kim, you can have it on your terms. burger king all the way. >> it is optics for kim jong-un, the political optics for him, he has to save faith heading into the conversation with the president. >> harris: can we just give them this one? it is interesting. >> kennedy: you did it because you are so smart and logical and love swiss cheese and obviously that is -- >> nobody likes swiss cheese. >> president trump weigh nothing on three senate primaries tomorrow, could determine the balance of power in washington. candidates in those races aligning themselves with the president and his agenda. will that strategy work in the
general election? discussed in moments. stay right here. i'm just worried about the house and taking care of the boys. zach! talk to me. it's for the house. i got a job. it's okay. dad took care of us.
represent the g.o.p.'s best hopes of unseeding incumbent democrats. charlie, i'm hearing don blankenship is up by two in west virginia right now. karl rove says republicans can kiss west virginia goodbye if don blankenship wins, is he right? >> charlie: i don't know if he's right about that. a lot of people predicting don blankenship wasn't wane west virginia, have been wrong about a lot of things. also not forget in 2012, it was a convicted felon who was in prison who won 40% of the vote in west virginia, while in prison, against -- in democratic primary against barack obama. west virginia, predicting how west virginia will vote is not an easy thing. there is a real problem that republicans are having drafting off of the trump -- off of trump's coattails. the big problem is that, you
know, the anti-washington sentiment that got trump into the white house is still out there. so in place like west virginia, they wind up going behind guy like blankenship. >> west virginia is an interesting state, since about 2000, it's really been trending more and more red. the only reason joe manchin has been the main democrat there, he is very much in the middle. he didn't support tax cuts, he didn't support repealing obamacare. interesting to see how that plays in the general. i think he's still a very popular, he was governor of the state, if he were to lose as democrat of west virginia, i think that could be the beginning of west virginia completely being red. >> i've interviewed joe manchin and he is a strong candidate. don blankenship been to jail, probably not the best to have candidate who spent time in jail. >> did you see his campaign ad? cocaine mitch, i don't care, man, he looks like he's nervous about something. >> do you agree with charlie's assessment that perhaps it
doesn't matter who wins the primary in the state? >> i think it does matter. i think unfortunately for republicans, there are still going to be very independent-minded voters in a place like west virginia. it's different than every other state and, you know, they deserve to put their own candidates and nominees forth, i get that. still, don blankenship looks nuts. >> harris: just for a second, revisit what we saw in pa-18, district 18 with connor lamb. if joe manchin decides to even just a little bit further right, republicans are going to have a mess on their hands potentially, right? >> yeah. >> harris: you can say it doesn't matter who he goes up against, you got to be looking at who can beat joe manchin, regardless of whose coattails, whose tweets, looking that way. the attorney general, i don't know, maybe. these other men in the race benefited from the president's tweet potentially, maybe. who can really beat joe manchin
who might go a little bit right like connor lamb. that candidate might not be real down the road, but real in this race. >> spot on. >> harris: some counties in illinois are taking tip from liberal declaring sanctuarys for gun ors, will it work? is it the right way to handle this issue? stay tuned. simple goodness
>> harris: welcome back. a controversial move by some county necessary southern illinois declaring themselves sanctuary counties for gun rights. they are pushing back against threats to target their second amendment right. taking cue from sanctuary city policies that refused to enforce federal immigration laws. authors behind the resolution admit their move is largely symbolic, but they are making a point. this is interesting, charlie, you have republicans who are basically sending a message to democratic lawmakers pushing for more gun control in illinois. question is, is this hypocritical for republicans who have been so negative, so anti-sanctuary city and state to say we'll do the same thing about laws we don't want to abide by. >> charlie: sure, it is hypocritical. do this with immigration laws
and claiming duly-passed, enacted immigration laws that are on the books and have been for a long time, we're not going to obey the laws, why don't you do it for everything. you could do it for gun laws, for, i don't know, whatever. and, it is a terrible thing. >> harris: should we do away with sanctuary cities? >> charlie: that would be a start. >> kennedy: we have to find a difference between constitutional right. this is enshrined in the bill of rights for a very good reason and it's very important issue for many americans who feel it is their duty in order to protect themselves and their families and self-defense is critical, especially in places like illinois, where parts of illinois have been, you know, riddled with the type of crime that you really don't see, except for once in a generation and they want this phased path and do it by protecting themselves and that is the
difference. immigration policy is screwed up, it is up endd and republicans and democrats have to figure out way to have comprehensive immigration so you don't have willie nilly policies in states, countys and cities. >> harris: i'm understanding this is happen nothing rural counties in the state? this underscores a point i've been making, gun control is not right versus left, it is rural verse urban. breaking down of course your thoughts, which is true, more rural individuals have guns than those that live in urban areas, but the fact you have the bulk of the rural individual have owned a gun before the age of 18 and that break down is so different than individuals living in urban areas, as well. i think it underscores this deep divide on the gun divide based on what area you live in. >> harris: when you look at the vice chairman of the board and this is a rural area effingham
county. what he is saying, they are turning the wording on its head because it provides you such a rich talking point, at that point. the word is already out there. sanctuary and it does flip it. what kennedy is saying, do you need a sanctuary for something that is constitutionally protected and do you go down a dicey road if you treat it like that? >> charlie: what really should happen, these laws should be challenged on the grounds of constitutionality and the supreme court has been very vocal that there are very, very few limits that you can ever put on this stuff because as i you say, it is constitutional right. you can protect yourself, your family and your neighbors. >> yeah. >> i think there is a difference talking sanctuary city and gun rights? >> charlie: absolutely. >> see how this plays out. >> harris: especially for people that say they have a right to be here, illegally or not and want sanctuary cities, like what they are doing in chicago, with rob
emmanual. that is not a constitutional right. i get the talking points with words and hash tagable, issues are different. >> see how that plays out in illinois. >> more "outnumbered" in just a moment, stick with us. at ally, we're doing digital financial services right. but if that's not enough, we have more than 8000 allys looking out for one thing: you. call in the next ten minutes... and if that's not enough, . grab your wallet. (beeping sound) (computer voice) access denied. and if that's still not enough to help you save... oh the new one! we'll bring out the dogs. mush! (dogs barking) the old one's just fine! we'll do anything, seriously anything, to help our customers. thanks. ally. do it right. my dai need my blood sugar i'to stay in control.en. so i asked about tresiba®. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® is a once-daily, long-acting insulin that lasts even longer than 24 hours. i need to shave my a1c. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪
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Donald-trumpBitTeam-takingRudy-giulianiRobert-muellerTrapCouldn-tInterviewShowLawyerToneHis-newthat does it for our show. rachel h rachel. don't go anywhere. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. power trip let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. breaking news from the associated press. just broke the news reported that omarosa manigault newman has more than tapes. just broke.
we begin the other big story news tonight. obsessed with power. president trump appears ready and willing to use his office to punish enemies like omarosa. scare others including his own people into submission. having revoked security clearances, trump is weaponizing the presidency. axios reports president trump has become enamored with power. consultation with anyone else. when it comes to yanking security clearances it is a power that is uniquely and solely hiss. matches his idea of how the presidency ought to be. pure power and instant
gratification. investigating his enemies. yesterday "vanity fair" reported that trump told advisors that he wants attorney general sessions that he wants omarosa manigault arrested. unconcerned with the consequences with the actions he has taken to date. key figures inside the mueller probe. as the washington post reports the president is eager to invoke more security clearances. because he believes he has emerged looking strong and decisive. let's listen. >> i know that i've gotten tremendous response from having done that because security clearances are very important to
me, very, very important. and i have had a tremendous response for having done that. >> is this political retribution, sir? >> i am giving him a bigger voice. many people don't even know who he is. and now he has a bigger voice and that is okay with me. i like taking on voices like that. i never respected him. >> dozen former cia leaders have band together to rebuke the president for unprecedent behavior. they write, we have never before seen the approval or removal of security clearance used as a political tool as was done before. some 60 more cia officials join with former directors in protesting the president's conduct. joining me know is former cia
director. i want to start with john. you know, i am not sure trump cares where he shoots. he is shooting. if anybody gets in his way, he goes with whatever weapon he can find in his holster. he wants to arrest omarosa. he wants his attorney general to go out and arrest her. suing her isn't enough. he does know he is allowed to yank security clearances so first weapon of choice. >> in this case, i don't think he looks strong and determined. he looks thoughtless and like a mad king. i have seen this movie before and it is never in a democracy. frankly, he has been very transparent about this. not much artiface in his
response. the guy is erratic. >> i often thought demagoguery is not a long-term good career move. the rest died hideously. >> the other problem with this is it is not going to work because you can revoke the security clearances unilaterally of people who are out of government and who aren't actively using them anyway. but the problem with revoking security clearances as a strategy for dealing with your political problems is most of the people who have them need them to do jobs that they are doing in the service of you. so you know, what are you going to do. >> you are talking about governing. trump is not interested what you are talking about. >> if you want to run the cia, you have to have people in security. >> you are long-term thinking. reporting now, he loves any power he can get. >> i think there are moments
where we need to remind people that trump's presidency in itself a grand experiment in the american experience. never had a public without public service experience, government experience, military experience. and never had a president without no accountability. he was a sole proprietor. here is why people are, you talk about franco and other dictators. here is why we are having this discussion. people comparing his move to nixon, having an enemies list. creeping towards authoritarian. nixon at least new enough to be embarrassed of his list. >> he says they are enemies of the people. i think trump is back on his
heels. i think everything he is doing with brennan is reacting than omarosa. and she has a lot more ammo than he has ever thought of. apparently getting to the next segment, she has e-mails, documents video, tape, everything. we are going to get to a lot of stuff. she has a hell of an arsenal. i think he is reacting. brennan paid the price to omarosa. tapes scare trump. because it is not fake news. it is real. it's existent. your thoughts. you know this guy. >> well, first i agree with you 100%. donald trump is back on his heels and he is like a coronened
animal. he knows what she is capable of. and we are hearing about more tapes, videos, e-mails. >> that has got to concern him. also, let's not forget whenever he got after whether it is stormy daniels, omarosa, his bark is way worse than his bite. none of these nondisclosure agreements have held up. and he went after brennan. this man who is weak and petty, not surprisingly put himself before country. it is all about himself and nothing to do with the security of this i didn't. >> occasionally, more often for his own good, or too often for
his own good, admits stuff. as i mentioned appears to be an ulterior motive. trump made his decision weeks ago about brennan. announced the action wednesday amidst an onslaught of news coverage. john, i know you are concerned about your institution, the cia, and the government of the united states, this president is primarily concerned about covering his butt. >> yeah. >> and he will use anything. >> i think that is why you see the signatures of all of these people on these letters. >> yeah. >> it's because all of them, particularly the directors and deputy directors have had governing responsibility, responsibility for granting these clearances, for adjudicating them, and revoking them on occasion. they have had them to do it under the law, fairly, and with
integrity. and it affects the security of the united states. it has never been done in my memory for any political reason. do it for that reason, and you are going to end up in court. the president has the authority to do it, i don't think he should. all of this is governed by executive order. >> people who have spent their life working for the fbi, and cia, i know through relatives and people, see themselves as working for america, the country, not some bureaucracy. they see themselves as the good guys and they don't make a lot of money. they do this their whole life because they think this is a cause, almost like a vocation, being somebody of god if you will because it is about country. and they want to defend these institutions. they believe people working with them is the same, serving their
country. trump comes along and what is his system? >> you left out something that is implied what you said and you didn't articulate it. and i want to flesh it out. people actually believe, i know people outside of washington have trouble with this. but it is really true that the people who work in these agencies have a deep seeded idea of a political service. and they don't go in there as democrats or republicans. i know the fashionable thing to think about them as a deep state that has cosmic political interest of their own and that is not the way they think of it. they think of it as service to country. >> guys and women who want to get the facts out. >> how many jobs were created last month. >> it is important to know this. >> and people, people, there are people in the cia who work on
very particular parts of the world, political economy in myanmar. they want to get the political economy in myanmar right. >> debate club. >> and then you have these value systems that trump is up against that he doesn't fathom. he doesn't understand selfless service. he doesn't know what that is. >> he can't even fake it. and that comes, that comes off to people who actually went in with a service mentality. >> he is going after some people, not just going after his so-called enemies or what he calls enemies of the people. he is going after people who might testify against them. people involve in the mueller probe. >> that was the point i was going to make.
he put out an expanding list. no one pushing back on him. response in congress, not getting a lot of push back there. when you look at people like sally yates, they have been involved in some former fashion in the russian investigation as well. two things, speaking out against him, and involvement in the russian investigation. i've got to say, i was a little surprised not to have push back on the hill >> you mean his republicans who find no fault with this man. >> kennedy called him political and a butt head. >> so there is either going along with it and defending it or just completely down-playing it. >> chris, can i add a point. >> go ahead, john. >> i am disappointed in the reaction of his party including
people i respect senator burr and graham and so forth. i don't know that they know what they are doing. in societies that goes bad, what happens is the laws are set aside, the procedures are set aside. and what they have said about brennan is they don't like him. he deserves it. that is not a reason to pull a security clearance. if you say we are going to do it because these guys deserve it. you erode the process of governing. >> where is this guy going. that jury is sitting right there and kissing up to manafort right now today as they are deciding his fate. trump saying good guy. nothing stopping trump. when nixon went after charles manson, that was messing with the jury pool.
this guy is talking to a jury that is sitting this weekend. >> he is also projecting a bit. one of the things that scares him a bit is mueller might have his tax returns. and that is one thing that manafort is on trial for tax evasion and other things. i don't think he cares about manafort. i think he cares about how it reflects on him. and concerned about where this investigation is going and where his tax returns will show up. >> the a mmen corner if he -- >> i don't know. it is so disappointing that these members are not doing their job. they are not putting country first. and you know, that's where donald trump is successful. he made this about an individual, about brennan who has been talking badly about
him. that is where he is able to be successful and attacking people. the senators say, oh, well, he is just one person. let's see where donald trump takes this. because there is only so much people are going to take from the republican party before they completely bolt. >> if you did this all on one day and you stripped all of these people of their security clearance on the same day, we would be talking about it as a saturday night massacre. you do it in slow motion and you get used to it along the way. let's talk about the tank coming at the president, omarosa, one name and that is all she needs. and he is petrified. as bad as it is, it is reactive. he is scared to death of somebody with tape. tape has caused him trouble. thank you very much.
john brennan will be rachel maddow's guest. 9:00 tonight. first appearance since president trump revoked his security clearance. omarosa has as many as 200 more tapes she can release. like time released aspirin. trump's access hollywood tape that triggered michael cohen to give stormy daniels money. trump's overblown, overpriced military parade gets canceled. and escalating fight with new york governor andrew cuomo. how the major news papers
covered the death of aretha franklin. i was impressed. this is "hardball" for over ten years. it's the #1 prescribed biologic by dermatologists. more than 250,000 patients have chosen humira to fight their psoriasis. and they're not backing down. for most patients clearer skin is the proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems. serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. join over 250,000 people who have chosen humira. ask your dermatologist about humira & go.
. still no verdict in the bank and tax fraud case against paul manafort. the jury wrapped up day two of deliberations. back to work on monday morning. president trump spoke about the trial today calling it a sad day for our country. talk about jury tampering. let's watch. >> i don't talk about that now. i think the whole manafort trial is very sad. when you look at what is going on there. it is a very sad day for our country. he worked for me for a short period of time but you know what, he happens to be a very good person. and i think it is sad what they have done to paul manafort. >> are you listening members of the jury, he wants you to be. be right back.
welcome back to "hardball." brand new reporting tonight that omarosa manigault newman has more than just audio tapes. she has a stash, apparently a big one of e-mails, text messages and hard documentation supporting claims against president trump. coming after released tapes already. she says she wasn't done yet and that is apparently true. let's watch. >> i'm not going to be bullied. i am not intimidated. going to go toe to toe with him. believe me, my tapes are better than theirs. >> thank you both. i like your reporting and your writing.
let me go to ken. you reported she has hundreds of tapes. how do you react to the news that somebody is getting the reporting tonight of associated press that she has other forms of proof. everything is documentable oopz. >> either she was going to cash in in her experience. or she was going to need to protect herself because she thought the trump inner circle. she is playing trump's tactics against him effectively in a way that is driving him crazy as you can see from his twitter feed. >> do you know whether she began collecting this documentation, especially the audio tapes when
she knew she was going to be dumped on or disposed of or she knew from the beginning. >> it was after she learned that things were going south. in very trumpian fashion, she is suggesting there is more out there. telling certainly, and telling in the content and also to hear these things directly from some of the people in their voice. but it is not bombshells. we haven't seen anything super explosive. just like trump saying he has barack obama's birth certificate. >> trump was full of bs on his claims. she is providing. what she is providing so far is interesting to me.
first is laura -- it was just money. we knew some of that was going on. the super pac has a lot of people who were working for it. who don't have clear job description and fit into the categories of just hangers on. that said, to hear laura trump make that offer, it is powerful and it does lead us wanting to know what else she had. >> i never heard of a job conversation where the offer of a job is primarily about the money. if you want to give a speech now that would be okay. it sounds like hush to me. hush, hush sweet omarosa. >> it does. if you want to talk, if you want to exist, it is fine but please don't hurt us. that smopeaks to how important is. >> i think general kelly, when
he tried to erase her from the scene. please leave the building. any idea what kind of order of battle she has. >> it is fascinating. this is one of the crisis that trump has responded to most strongly. an existential threat to the whole trump m.o. which is about being slippery with the truth. x one day, and y the next. when there is hard evidence, you can't do that anymore. >> if you are trump and you think you are the smartest guy in your family, i think that is fair to assume, he thinks so. and these people in his family that aren-- and then that laurah got taped, his daughter-in-law. i wonder if he is worried, what
in hell does that woman have on my kids because they don't know they are being taped. your thoughts. that is what i think trump worried about. actually, she has already taped him too. >> yeah. and you even hear lara trump's tone in that tape that you guys did obtain. i don't think omarosa went in with this expectation of loyalty and sort of a warm mutual relationship. she was butting heads with people from the beginning. a long list of folks that were on her bad side. she had motivation to be recording. and some of the tapes that she has released thus far in my opinion are not super conde
condemntory. it should raise concerns about who else she has. >> it was just broke christina that the reason they gave $130,000, a lot of money, it was because they heard the "access hollywood" tapes and they got spooked. >> it shows the power of the tapes. and it shows what trump's usual method was. completely lie about the whole affair and somebody had the evidence and suddenly it doesn't work and that is frightening to trump. >> i love it when he says that is not my voice on the tape. great to have you on. christina or christine? >> christine. up next, my colleague is going to join us to tell us about his interview tonight. what is this hard right
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country back in the '80s, is this whole thing of maximization. i like the fact that elizabeth warren ripped me off. >> that was former white house chief strategist, steve bannon coming on tonight at 10:00 with ari melber. steve bannon was a leading force in president trump's campaign. pushing a nationalist agenda called america first. tougher trade policies. now, 18 months into his presidency, we face an unsettled trade war with trump. so what happened to trump's agenda that looked attractive to some people a little bit, who were smart, a little bit.
joining us is the anchor of "the beat," ari melber. when this guy bannon was first out there, it was just awful. he seemed too far right. around the edges were things that were attractive to people. things like no more stupid wars. we are going to rebuild this country. we are going to rebuild stuff here. i don't see that. i see a guy saber rattling in trump. i don't see a guy pursuing rebuilding the country, and staying out of stupid wars. has this guy lost his influence. >> he is out. he is on the outs and trying to claw his way back in. some of the things that we talk about in this interview that is
airing later, how do you say that donald trump is for the working class when 83% of the tax cut benefits go to the top 1%. and how do you deal with an infrastructure that said was going to passed. how do you deal with wall street when you don't take them on. >> let's take a look. i think you are going to give me a piece. let's take a look at your interview tonight, a little tease. >> we do not want to isolate america -- >> we got the wrong thing up there. we are going to have to wait. that was frustrating. let's go. >> this election is going to come as a rerferendum on him. those around him are telling him it is okay to lose the house. you can run against a democratic house in 2020 is bad advice.
>> this guy says you lose the house, you lose subpoena power. and the house can come get you. >> this is where the republicans are in a divide. you have folks in washington around trump and down the hill, who are basically privately saying the house is written off and they will deal with it. bannon, whether you like him or not, a lot of people don't, he was the guy who backed up trump after "access hollywood" and then they did go to win in november. he wants this to be no holds bar and say impeachment of trump is on the table. he talks about his daughter in the military and what it means. and how does that square with support with roy moore. and if we are going to have
gender equality, don't you have to take on patriarchy. this is a guy who is clearly reviled, is also getting in in a way other conservatives aren't. he is trying to push this conversation even as donald trump says they are not buddies. >> i think people have to listen to him and i congratulate you in getting them on. people on the center left where i am, they need to hear this other side. it is not going to change anybody's minds but you have got to know what you are up against. >> in 2016, people were caught by surprise because we weren't listening to everything. >> we thought hillary clinton was going to win right up until 8:30 election night. not enough angry white people. thank you, ari melber. full interview with steve bannon airs tonight ten eastern.
rachel has john brennan on tonight. and he is right in the middle of the news. up next giving our round table a chance to weigh in. he is hitting them because he is scare of manigault. trump blaming the districts of columbia in stopping his bastille day parade. he is blaming the mayor of d.c. you are watching "hardball." sy, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪ ♪ your hair is so soft! did you use head and shoulders two in one?
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pg&e wants you to plan ahead by mapping out escape routes and preparing a go kit, in case you need to get out quickly. for more information on how to be prepared and keep your family safe, visit pge.com/safety. back to "hardball." president trump's plan for a military parade this november has been shelved due to skyrocketing cost. the expected cost of the parade had ballooned up to possible $92 million for a one day
parade. today trump wrote on twitter, the politicians who run washington d.c. poorly know a windfall when they see it. i canceled it. d.c.'s mayor tweeted yup, i am muriel bowser. $21.6 milli $21.6 million of parades events, demonstrations in trump country. sad. you may remember trump got military parade envy after attending a bastille day parade in france. joined by political corresponders for routers. what do you make of this.
if trump would have wanted his parade, he would have gone back with numbers crunchers and got the numbers down. >> when he tweeted today that d.c. is poorly run, what he was doing is harkening back to the d.c. of the 1980s and 1990s. >> in the public eye, it is run by african americans and it works for him. >> we should say that d.c. has a budget surplus these days. and that was not the d.c. that president trump was talking about. >> you are talking -- >> and by the way, this is consistent with this guy. go ahead. >> you talk about how he is cutting welfare in the city and that is the impression of d.c. that people have. bowser is the most popular mayor in d.c. history. >> clean as a whistle. >> they were planning on doing
this in november. the president has a good chance of losing the house. i don't think it mattered that the pentagon didn't want to pay for it, and the city didn't want to pay for it. he didn't want to look like a fool. >> some of these weapons are heavy that they leave tracks on tar. meanwhile president trump escalated a new fight, a new war front. fighting with everybody like groucho marx these days. >> we are not going to make america great again, it was never that great. we have not reached greatness. >> well, governor cuomo received a backlash for that mark. president trump's said cuomo's
comments could be career threatening. cuomo told reporters the expression i used was unartful. >> we have to remember that andrew cuomo is in a re-election fight. there are a lot of people, if you are a minority, if you are a woman, that doesn't think america reached greatness for you. >> do you think it was a smart punch? >> we are in a -- >> why did he take it back? >> because your base hears you. and they are happy with what you are saying and they think you are taking it back because somebody made you. >> go ahead john. >> andrew cuomo is lucky that
anything he says on the campaign trail will be better than that. that is a low moment for him. >> up state new york, by the way. >> what i am hearing from cuomo's camp is we should expect him to be punching at donald trump a lot more. an opportunity for him to draw a contrast between the view of government that trump has and what he is doing in new york. >> i agree with you. when you say america was dandy 50 years ago, anyboin the ''50s. >> he wants the trump and trump wants the fight. two politicians that think fighting makes them look stronger. >> the minute you have to explain your argument, you lost your argument. >> he has this standing in new york. >> let me ask you a question.
i have been listening to you off camera. do you believe the poles that show you so far ahead of cynthia nixon, he can't lose. >> i think he is quite popular in the state and i think it would be however unwise of him to write it off. we have seen in 2010 when a wave shows up unexpected. and cuomo is going to make sure he is not one of those. >> spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on polls. >> i think he spends a lot of money on consulting. whether or not if he hits the numbers. cynthia nixon has a huge hill to climb. >> it is not going to cost her a bit to run this race. this is probably going to be good for her, i am guessing. >> for her. but the primary is going to be good for him. he has somebody in the left
where he can position himself. >> new york is moving though. kellyanne conway tried defending trump's decision of stripping brennan's clearance. >> he is a former cia director. and shows no interest in helping this administration further the national security. he is paying for his opinion now. and his opinion is against the interest of the administration which are serving the interest of our national security. >> criticism of brennan because the president himself as recruited. including nasa security advisor john bolton. is it so bad to be on
television, this president who did nine years of the apprentice. >> this president values what is said on cable news. and views it as something that needs to be addressed. >> sean hannity is sitting on his ear lobe. >> the president is watching the cable news and watching these people. president trump wouldn't have revoke the the security clearance. >> does he read? i know he reads the headlines. >> he cares about what is in the headlines. >> kelly anne ways great guest for years. i am not going to knock it. these people telling me something i don't know. you are watching "hardball" you can connect more deeply to the places of your past.
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we are back with the "hardball" roundtable, ginger tell me something i don't know. >> state legislative candidates across the country found that state legislators could go from 25% to 40% women. >> big republican donor sechnt letter to customers saying they are raising prices because of the tariffs. oil field services. >> president trump is said to spend 40 of the 60 days of the midterm on the trail. >> i think he can save the senate and not the house. we will see. ginger gibson, jonathan allen, jeff bennet.
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speech. an example of high tone political. last night i quoted another president ronald reagan on the essential value and validity. i want to pay tribute to the pattern i saw today on the front pages of the major newspapers. all displayed glorious photographs of aretha franklin. all three put the portrait of her well above the fold. that they did so said well. it was her life that demanded the highest attention. what she did with it that put her up there just below the banner. it was her work that won this country's respect. her soul that seized this final
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