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but as ever with technology, privacy and security collide. the so—called five eyes countries are all against the technology. japan, india, turkey, bangladesh, brazil and the european union have all expressed concerns too, with some exploring laws to control the apps. in countries with strict internet rules like china, many end—to—end encryption products are already banned. what's concerning is that if platforms make the design choice to roll out end—to—end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that is used to find perpetrators and protect children. it's a debate that has raged now for years, with neither side wanting to budge. you concede that there is harm, correct? i concede that there are trade—offs and that there are challenges to law enforcement, and of course my heart goes out to the victims... well, i'm not so interested in your heart, actually. many security forces and politicians around the world are calling on tech companies to introduce some
collide. the so—called five eyes countries are all against the technology. japan, india, turkey, bangladesh, braziland technology. japan, india, turkey, bangladesh, brazil and the european union have all expressed concerns, too, with some exploring laws to control the apps. in countries with strict internet rules like china, many end—to—end encryption products are already banned. what many end-to-end encryption products are already banned.— are already banned. what is concerning _ are already banned. what is concerning is _ are already banned. what is concerning is that _ are already banned. what is concerning is that if - are already banned. what is l concerning is that if platforms are already banned. what is - concerning is that if platforms make the design choice to roll out end—to—end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that is used to find the perpetrators and protect children. it is a debate that has now raged for years, with neither side wanting to budge. for years, with neither side wanting to budue. ., .., . for years, with neither side wanting to budue. ., . ., , to budge. you concede that there is harm, to budge. you concede that there is harm. correct? _ to budge. you concede that there is harm, correct? i— to budge. you concede that there is harm, correct? i concede _ to budge. you concede that there is harm, correct? i concede that - to budge. you concede that there is harm, correct? i concede that there are trade-offs _ harm, correct? i concede that there are trade-offs and _ harm, correct? i concede that there are trade-offs and that _ harm, correct? i concede that there are trade-offs and that there - harm, correct? i concede that there are trade-offs and that there are i are trade—offs and that there are challenges to law enforcement. of course my heart goes out to the victims... course my heart goes out to the victims- - -_ course my heart goes out to the victims... �* ., ,., , victims... i'm not so interested in our victims... i'm not so interested in your heart. _ victims... i'm not so interested in your heart, actually. _ victims... i'm not so interested in your heart, actually. many - victims... i'm not so interested in| your heart, actually. many security forces and politicians _ your heart, actually. many security forces and politicians around - your heart, actually. many security forces and politicians around the i forces and politicians around the world are calling on tech companies to introduce some sort of technical back door end—to—end encrypted apps.
so, because it is effectively a security vulnerability that could be misused by a range of bad actors and malicious actors whether state or nonstate, which is why it is important to not enable any kind of access at all. �* :, , at all. but as ever with technology, _ at all. but as ever with technology, privacy - at all. but as ever with | technology, privacy and security collide. the so—called five eyes countries are all against the technology. japan, india, turkey, bangladesh, brazil and the european union have all expressed concerns as well with some exploring laws to control the apps. in countries with strict internet rules like china, many end—to—end encryption products are already banned. end-to-end encryption products are already banned.— are already banned. what is concerning _ are already banned. what is concerning is _ are already banned. what is concerning is that _ are already banned. what is concerning is that if - are already banned. what is l concerning is that if platforms make the design choice to roll out end—to—end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that is used to find perpetrators and protect children. �* , :, find perpetrators and protect children. �* , . ., children. it's a debate that has raged _ children. it's a debate that has raged about _ children. it's a debate that has raged about four - children. it's a debate that| has raged about four years, with neither side wanting to budge. with neither side wanting to bud . e. :, with neither side wanting to budre. :, .., with neither side wanting to bud.e_ :, ,
the so—called five eyes countries are all against the technology. japan, india, turkey, bangladesh, brazil and the european union have all expressed concerns too, with some exploring laws to control the apps. in countries with strict internet rules like china, many end—to—end encryption products are already banned. what's concerning is that if platforms make the design choice to roll out end—to—end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that is used to find perpetrators and protect children. it's a debate that has raged now for years, with neither side wanting to budge. you concede that there is harm, correct? i concede that there are trade—offs and that there are challenges to law enforcement, and of course my heart goes out to the victims... well, i'm not so interested in your heart, actually. many security forces and politicians around the world are calling on tech companies to introduce some sort of technical back door into end—to—end encrypted apps.
that only you have the kid open. the messages are protected even from the app company which means end—t—end encryption protects your tax, media and cause, internet companies, hackers and even police. companies, hackers and even olice. , . , companies, hackers and even olice. , ., , police. this means we could really exercise _ police. this means we could really exercise freedom - police. this means we could really exercise freedom of l really exercise freedom of expression, right to privacy without fear of unwarranted surveillance whether by the private sector or public sector. private sector or public sector-— sector. but the rise of end-t-end _ sector. but the rise of end-t-end encryption| sector. but the rise of. end-t-end encryption is sector. but the rise of- end-t-end encryption is being end—t—end encryption is being challenged by governments around the world. as they fortify those countries led by the uk with online safety, campaign against the technology. many other countries also expressed concerns. countries also expressed concerns-— countries also expressed concerns. ., , ., concerns. some are exploring their own _ concerns. some are exploring their own laws _ concerns. some are exploring their own laws to _ concerns. some are exploring their own laws to block - concerns. some are exploring their own laws to block it. - their own laws to block it. what's concerning is that if platforms make the design choice to roll out end—to—end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that's used to find perpetrators and protect children.— perpetrators and protect children. , , . , , children. many security forces and politicians _ children. many security forces and politicians around - children. many security forces and politicians around the - and politicians around the world are calling on tech
if platforms make the design choice to roll out end—to—end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that's used to find perpetrators and protect children. many security forces and politicians around the world are calling on tech companies to introduce some sort of technical back door into end—to—end encrypted apps, a way for police to gain access to messages if they suspect criminal activity. but tech firms argue that any tampering will harm security. and as the stalemate heats up, companies are threatening to stop their apps in countries like the uk if bans are issued. joe tidy, bbc news. so this is a tricky issue. drjanis wong, postdoctoral research associate at the alan turing institute a research group, is working on data science and artificial intelligence. thank you very much for coming on the programme. thank you very much for coming on the programme-— thank you very much for coming on the programme. thanks for having me. so which side —
the sender and the receiver have access to the keys. it's like sending a box that only you have the key to open. the messages are protected, even from the apple company, which means end to end encryption protects your text, media and course from everyone. internet companies, hackers, even police. companies, hackers, even olice. , . , companies, hackers, even olice. , ., , ., companies, hackers, even olice. , ., police. this means that people can truly exercise _ police. this means that people can truly exercise their- police. this means that people can truly exercise their right i can truly exercise their right to freedom of expansion, right to freedom of expansion, right to privacy without of unlevel surveillance whether by the private or public sector. the rise of end-to-end - private or public sector. the rise of end—to—end encryption is being challenged by governments around the world. the so—called flybys countries led by the uk with its online safety bill are campaigning against the technology. any other countries have also expressed concerns as well with some exploring their own laws to block it. some exploring their own laws to block it— to block it. what's concerning is that if platform _ to block it. what's concerning is that if platform use - to block it. what's concerning is that if platform use make l is that if platform use make the design choice to rollout end to end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of the data that is used to find
what's concerning is that if platforms make the design choice to roll out end to end encryption, we risk losing the vast majority of that data that's used to find perpetrators and protect children. many security forces and politicians around the world are calling on tech companies to introduce some sort of technical back door into end to end encrypted apps, a way for police to gain access to messages if they suspect criminal activity. but tech firms argue that any tampering will harm security. and as the stalemate heats up, companies are threatening to stop their apps in countries like the uk if bans are issued. joe tidy, bbc news. the riots which erupted in france last week appear to have subsided for now, but they've exposed deep divisions in french society. in marseille — where there were violent clashes over the weekend — people living in one of the city's most deprived neighbourhoods say they feel abandoned by politicians. 0ur correspondentjenny