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there's got to be another reason. -well, how can he say that? where is he getting that from? what a big denial. -to be certain it was foam is nonsense, right? but to be certain it wasn't foam is equally nonsense. right? and that's what they were saying. "it's not foam." well, how do you know? -i know from the accident investigation team's perspective, no one was gonna go public and say, "we know what didn't happen." -you get that shot right there? that's a nasa official. he's holding a piece of foam, which he is now saying could not have had enough impact 'cause it's too light to have damaged those tiles that we've been talking about. -i knew ron. i had respect for ron. ron was linda ham's boss and a good manager. but what's always the first step in grief? denial. -i called ron and i said,
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a defense but it felt like that. i felt like there was some suspense until late in the day whether or not there would be an additional witness. whether or not trump would show up. did it seem today that the case closed today, that trump's own attorneys had two plans. one for if he showed up and one for if he didn't, that they closed the way they had to because they mounted no effective defense. >> i think they never expected him to come and i think they didn't want him to come. joe tacopina today reiterated so many of the same things we saw in the opening. one of those was we don't have to mount a defense. how do you prove a negative? this never happen. he said it never happened. i'll even show you and perpetrates where he says emphatically, this never happened. therefore, we're not putting on a defense. our sole defense is by cross examining their witnesses. we can't prove that something that didn't happen didn't happen zblfl so our whole defense is that it didn't happen regardless of what evidence there is.
certainly, he was wearing patches that as you mentioned, were sold by proud boys. but there was a direct linkage between something like right wing death squad, and the slogan that comes with it, which is pinochet was right to latin american ideas about whiteness. so, pinochet is the infamous argentinian dictator who dealt with his political enemies, often, many of the enemies were characterized as racial others, by simply throwing them out of helicopters over the ocean. the proud boys were wearing shorts that set pinochet was right. right wing death squad, way back, even before the last round of presidential debates, long before january six. so, these things were implicated. and the other thing to understand -- and this has a long history. it's complex. although it here just quickly. people can read more about this. ideas about whiteness and what counts as white and who might be under the umbrella of being included in nazism are very,
lisa rubin, msnbc legal analyst, longtime colleague on this show. she's been covering the e. jean carroll civil suit. lisa, thanks for being here. it's nice to see you under the light instead of just in the office. >> it's weird, but good. yeah, it's weird but wonderful. >> what exactly is the jury going to decide tomorrow? they're going to be instructed by the judge, it's a civil case. >> that's right. >> they're being to -- their asked not to find guilty or innocent, but liable to earn liability. >> that's right, and they're going to be asked if trump was liable to damages he's liable for, compensating her for her losses, and also punitive damages. did he do something so egregious here that it's worth going above and beyond what she's lost, to send a message to him, and two others who might be thinking about this kind of behavior. >> bottom line, and the cold light of day, what is at stake here for trump, a finding by a jury of liability and some money. in terms of the amount of money,
happen. >> so, our sole defense is his assertion that it didn't happen, ignore this, whatever evidence the other side provided. >> and close all the evidence provided by the other side. >> do you think that this wasn't additionally traumatizing event for e. jean carroll, having been there in the courthouse this week? i mean, it's an active remark of bravery to bring this case, for accusations are accurate. was this case as painful as it seemed from the outside? >> look, i'm not a psychologist, right? and i don't have any degrees that would allow me to say whether this woman is telling the truth, but i believe that her story was true for her. you know, the emotion, and the intensity that she experienced all throughout the trial, including from the very opening, when she turned around and looked joe tacopina directly in the face, as if to say to him, how dare you say this about me while i'm sitting in this courtroom? it was profoundly affecting. and to see her break down, even today after the closing arguments were over, her lawyer, robbie catlin, a very emotional moment, between the two of them,
>> the way that these cases were closed, well, it's not the prosecution and the defense, but that's effectively the way it works. i felt like there was some suspense, really, until late in the day yesterday, as to whether or not that was going to be an additional witness, whether or not trump was going to turn up. but it seemed to you that thick lace closed today, that trump's own attorneys basically had two plans, one for if he showed up, and one if he didn't. but they closed, they had to, because they mounted no effective defense. >> i think they never expected him to comment. i actually think they didn't want him to come. joe tacopina is closing today reiterated so many of the same things we saw from him in the opening. and one of those themes was, we don't have to mount a defense, because how do you prove a negative. this never happened. he said it never happened. i am even going to show you excerpts from his deposition where he says emphatically this never happened. and therefore, we're not putting on the defense, our sole defense is going to be by cross examining the witnesses, because we can't prove that something didn't happen didn't
had a stumbling debate performance, a stroke and you know that and endorsed and introduced by someone who is as savvy and smooth on the stump as any candidate in u.s. history. the comparison is fairly dramatic. i don't know if it rings home to viewers and to voters. what do you think? >> well, democrats are certainly hoping that putting barack obama on the trail not just in pennsylvania, but in other key states, such as georgia, and nevada, will turn out loyal democrats who might otherwise sit this election out. if barack obama tells you to vote for somebody, will you vote for that person if you're a democrat. neil: but when he's not on the ballot it's never happened. so if in his first midterm didn't happen, and second membership didn't happen. scores of races since, hasn't happened. >> well, and republicans, neil, seemingly face the same problem with the former president, whom they are deploying in the final days of the race, and he's also