Latest Breaking News On - Ed schulze - Page 1 : vimarsana.com
nobody really knew when fourth of july weekend was. was it the weekend before the fourth, after the fourth? i for one celebrated both. but it wasn't really clear which was the right weekend to celebrate. one thing that is clear though now is that the fourth of july weekend whenever it was is over. we are back. today in washington, it was like the first day of school. summer's over. everybody is back and doing what they want to be doing for the next few months. the republican-controlled house back in session today. they of course, now are hard at work on their jobs, jobs -- just kidding. house republicans are naturally working on abortion this week just like they always do. another abortion ban they are pursuing for washington, d.c. gets marked up tomorrow. because you know, jobs, jobs, jobs. house republicans are also planning to symbolically fake repeal health reform again. they have already symbolically fake repealed once but there's nothing more important for the jobs, jobs agenda than fake repealing health reform one more time. that will probably happen on wednesday. it will, of course, have, no practical effect whatsoever. but it will feel great for the republicans when they do it. they think it's good for them in terms of messaging. in terms of the presidential contest, the obama campaign right now is seriously ramping up their criticism of mitt romney as the guy who would be the only president in u.s. history with a swiss bank account. mr. romney's father who was also a rich guy when he ran for president in the '60s, he released 1 years of his tax years when he was running. his son only released one year under duress back in january. what he released showed a swiss bank account and holdings in the cayman islands which is a notorious tax shelter as well as mysterious companies holding who knows how many romney bucks incorporated in bermuda for some reason. the shadiness or at least mysteriousness of what he does with all of his giant piles of money and how it is that he figures out a way to pay so little in taxes, that was the subject of a big investigative piece in "vanity fair" last week. another big piece by the associated press later last week and now is the subject of many attack ads. many democratic talking points on the sunday shows this weekend and this new video from the obama campaign. trying to force the romney folks to at least try to come up with an answer to some of these questions about why he's offshored his money. so far, the romney campaign response to this line of criticism is that it is "disgusting." which is a very powerful adjective when deployed in a political context but just saying the word disgusting does not actually answer any of the questions. it is probably not a coincidence that the mitt romney swiss bank account cayman island creepy zil air attack is being full-court pressed by the democrats at the same time that the democratic president is rolling out his own policy proposal that we should not renew the bush tax cuts for the richest sliver of people in this country. the president has long said that this is the policy that he supports. but today was the day that they chose to formally roll out this as a proposal. >> i'm calling on congress to extend the tax cuts for the 98% of americans who make less than $250,000 for another year. i believe it's time to let the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, folks like myself, to expire. in many ways, the fate of the tax cut for the wealthiest americans will be decided by the outcome of the next election. my opponent will fight to keep them in place. i will fight to end them. >> just as the house republican vote this week to repeal health reform is going to have no practical effect other than messaging for the republicans, honestly, president obama formally proposing today that everybody get a tax cut except for rich people, that is not necessarily going to become policy just because he says he favors it. he has long favored it, but it is great messaging for the democrats. this is a really popular policy idea this is a policy idea that is even popular among republicans when you poll on it, but this question puts elected republicans in washington in a really awful spot because republicans are against what president obama proposed today. they're not against it because they don't want people to have tax cuts. they're against it because they want rich people to have tax cuts. and if the rich people don't get tax cuts they say then nobody should. everybody's taxes are going to go up unless the rich people get a tax cut. that's their position. that's harder to sustain in political debate. and the democrats know that. the whole idea is to make it look like republicans will bend over backwards to do anything for the richest people in the country even if it hurts everybody else. the whole idea of the democrats doing this is to make the republicans look ridiculous when it comes to the way that they treat the very rich. and the romney campaign right now is doing everything it can to live up to that caricature of republicans. at least i think they are. what happened to the romney campaign this weekend was so bad, in exactly the way they do not need things to be bad for them right now, it was so bad i almost cannot believe that it was self-inflicted. in fact, i think i may believe that this was orchestrated in some way by the other side. maybe. i don't know, do i think that the left is this clever? do you remember billionaires for bush? billionaires for bush were my favorite anti-george w. bush satirical idea all through the bush years. they were the sa tire troupe that would show up to bush campaign events or fund-raisers or sometimes march through the streets professing to be billionaires in favor of president bush and his policy. for more war, for more wars. they would dress up in tuxedos and top hats and evening gowns and carry signs that said things like taxes are not for everyone. thank you for paying our fair shea. widen the income gap. for more barpz privatize everything. look at that in the back. corporations are people, too. this was preromney saying that. billionaires for bush was sort of genius. they did survive into the obama era when they became the anti-health reform group billionaires for wealth care. they dressed up in top hats and tails and occasionally as health care industry ceos to oppose health reform with signs like if we ain't broke, don't fix it. and let them eat advil. fight socialism, end medicare now. usually these guys announce their presence. they will put out a press release. billionaires for thing something. but it maybe is possible that this weekend they were in the hamptons protesting against mitt romney without announcing their presence. maybe? i don't know. but how else do you explain this. look at this. a woman in a blue chiffon dress poked her head out of a black range rover here on sunday afternoon and yelled to an aide to mitt romney, is there a vip entrance? we are vip. "the new york times" describing mr. romney's motorcade passing a gleaming line of bentleys, porsches and mercedes bens waiting to meet guests who paid $25,000 to hear him speak. where was this fund-raiser romney was appearing at? at the home of ronald perlman, chairman of reb lon, described as the largest estate in east hampton, it has 40 rooms, nine fireplaces and takes up a mile along the pond. this guy's house is so big, it has its own logo you apparently have to wear on your clothing if you work there. emp romney aides emblazoned with the logo of the perlman's property the creeks checked off names under tight security. doesn't your house have a logo. a few of attendees were nice enough to speak to the media assembled there. a few cars back, ted conklin, the owner of the american hotel in sag harbor, long a favorite of the well off in the hamptons could barely contain his displeasure are obama. he is a socialist. his idea is find a problem that doesn't exist and get government to intervene he said from inside a gold colored mercedes as his wife nodded in agreement. miss simmons paused to highlight what she said was her husband's generous spirit. tell them who is on your yacht this weekend. tell him. over mr. conklin's auctions, she disclosed a major executive from miramax was on the 75-foot yacht because she said there were no rooms left at the hotel. see, it's like the jesus birth story with a twist. he's in swad ling clothes. i think these are protesters. i think those people talking from the gold mercedes, they have to be protesters. why else would you go out of your way to make sure that you told the reporter about who was staying on your 57-foot yacht while you were there to complain about the socialist and this invented problem this country supposedly has? the l. a. times in their reporting on this described the line of range rovers, bmws, porsche roadsters. one new york city donor who would not give her name said romney needed to do a better job connecting. she said i don't think the common person is getting it from the passenger seat of a range rover stamped with east hampton beach permits. nobody understands why obama is hurting them. we've got the message, she saddled but my college kid, the baby-sitters, the nails ladies, everybody who's got the right to vote, they don't understand what's going on. i just think if you're lower income, well, one you're not as educated. two, they don't understand how it works. they don't understand how the systems work. they don't understand the impact. stupid voters. the nails ladies. college kid. you know, these billionaires for romney protesters must be billionaires for romney protesters. they covered all the news outlets too and gave the damning we are vip quote to the l. a. times. the l. a. times got the nails ladies quote. to the associated press, a former sheaf of shearson lehman brothers saying of mitt romney "i think he's a plain talking guy." the shearson lehman investment brothers guy made the comment as he chewed a cigar in his black range rover outside a romney fund-raiser expected to generate $3 million. cigar chomping? this has to be satire. look at the photos from this thing. look. look at the caption on. a southampton police officer directs a rolls rosie arnts the protests are around the estate of david koch. actual rolls royce. an actually porsche. an actual i think second in line is that a bentley? maybe it's another rolls-royce. it's definitely behind an actual bmw. all of the coverage was from just outside these three hamptons fund-raisers because there was no press allowed inside. two cnn reporters did report overhearing what mitt romney told his cartoonishly affluent and callus hamptons audience. he said "by the way, he said the, you guys are doing fine. if you're here, by and large, you're doing just fine." see, people paying $25,000 to go to this event by and large mitt romney thinks they're all doing okay. presumably some of them are really struggling. by and large, the people at the $25,000 a plate fund raiser are doing okay. mr. romney continued to reported applause. he said "we all care about the poor. but what we want to do is not just help. we want to help people from becoming poor. so you there in the red ferrari under a mitt romney presidency, you never become poor. i can guarantee you that. you mr. gold mercedes, have a cigar. you're not going to become poor either and you miss vip, read my lips. got you covered. my friends, becoming poor is never going to be a problem for you as long as i am in office. so that's how mitt romney and his presidential campaign appears in the press today. and today is the day that president obama dared republicans to die on the political hill of tax cuts for millionaires. and it's the day they're pushing the criticism of mitt romfully that he has offshored his millions inner the grand caymans and swiss bank accounts. the side of the argument is the lady in the range rover screaming we are vip outside the 40-room house in the hamptons. want to know what mitt romney is doing tonight, the day after those three fund-raisers with the fur rarery and all the billionaires? he's doing another zillionaires fund raiser in aspen. but don't worry, is he turning around this whole story line, he has just announced he is going to be in london soon to kick off his big overseas trip conveniently will for the kick off of the olympics just in time to see his wife's million dollar dressage horse compete in the olympic games. there are only two possibilities at this point. either this is brilliant satire and the romney campaign is being punched and i tip my hat to the billionaires for romney who have pulled this off and combinationed these reporters you were actually rich people saying things that obnoxious about mitt romney and what he sands or or there is somebody inside the romney campaign trying to make him look as much as possible like this yourston how well and lovy. could be. 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[ male announcer ] solutionism. the new optimism. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel is here in america, here in new york. he has just returned from syria, which is not something that very many people in the world can say right now. we are lucky to have richard here because he's almost never here. for the last decade he has reported from iraq and afghanistan and gaza, and lebanon. at one point i e-mailed him to ask if he wanted to get together. he e-mailed back he was on his way to timbuktu because that's his life. last year watching the unfolding of the arab spring, richard's reporting from egypt and from libya was indispensable. he was in tahrir square the night the hosni mew bark rec len lynn extinguished power. in the capital city of triply, he captured this moment which made me everybody think the syrian's rebels chances of winning against gadhafi were slightly less than zero. >> after an hour and a half, we reached the rebels frontline. there are no trenls or sand bags, just men poorly armed who want to fight. the frontline is about five miles outside the town. smoke can be seen rising from the distance. gadhafi still has thanks and artillery in the town. the rebels watch with binoculars but can't advance. outgunned, the rebels say they're killed whenever they approach gadhafi's forces. we have light weapons. he has thanks, complained one man. another rebel showed me he isn't actually armed at all. >> it's a toy gun. this is amazing. he just handed me his gun. i didn't realize till he. you the it in my hands, it's a toy. >> at that point, and that was march of last year, things did not look good for the rebels in libya. they were outmanned and outgunned, outdone. then things turned around. the air raids paid off militarily. gadhafi fled and went into hiding. seven months after richard showsed us the rebel with the plastic gun, gadhafi was captured and killed. the arab spring is now trying to roll through syria. it has been bloody. exactly death tolls are impossible to know because the regime is not publicly keeping count of how many of its own civilians it's killed. best guesstimates put the number of dead in syria at about 17,000 people. over 16 months of fighting. even after kofi annan brokered a cease-fire agreement, the snipers and the shelling did not stop. people are still dying every day including at least 30 people killed today in homs. for 16 months, it has seemed like nothing in syria would change. but something seems to be happening now. there are increased reports of defections from syria's military. more than a dozen generals, a deputy minister, a syrian air force pilot flying his jet to jordan. the military turning against the regime defecting. "the new york times" reporting of the 80,000 young men expected to show up for mandatory military service this year, experts say virtually none have respondeded. amid those reports and at a time when it is getting really hard to get reporting out of syria itself, richard went to northwest syria last week and says he was surprised bid what he found there. >> rebels in syria now travel openly on the main highways in uniforms carrying weapons. it was not like this just a month ago. now the rebels have safe havens mostly in the rural countryside. >> the army does not dare come out. if they do, our snipers would get them >> he this rebel leader takes us to mororra, one of dozens of villages in northwest syria where residents are now celebrating after government troops were driven out. things are changing rapidly in syria where the opposition is taking village after village. and every time they do, they throw a party just like this one. for the first time in this country, there is a sense that the rebels have momentum. >> the sense that the rebels have the momentum. that is not the way the press about syria has been in this country up until now. but richard is just back from there. senior foreign correspondent richard engel joins us now live in studio. thanks for being here. >> how are you? >> i'm good. did you have to do a james bond crazy thing in order to get into syria. you have to go in illegally. we went in through turkey and joined up with some rebels. but the turks are giving a little bit of passive support. if they had seen us, yes, they would have arrested us. they would have sent us back inside. but i think the turks did probably see us and because there were a lot of people crossing the border illegally these days and are just looking the other way and allowing rebels and a few journalists to go in. and to give you an idea, this wasn't the first time i had been into syria, and i didn't know exactly what to expect, and now this conflict zone. so i brought almost nothing. i brought a pair of, so, one extra shirt. i wanted to keep myself very light. i thought i would be hiding under kitchen tables. i went in with the rebels at night, we crossed to the other side. rebel flags, guys walking around in rebel uniforms on motorcycles. and i spent the next week driving around with the rebel groups from head quarter to head quarter doing interviews openly on the street, surrounded by people. we stopped for lunch on the way in between -- in between vils. and hardly saw any syrian troops at all. >> how much of the country is assad in control of then? >> i don't think very much. i think he controls the cities. and he controls the places where his troops are. but not necessarily much in between them. we went into towns where there were rebels in control of the town, but there were still syrian forces and the syrian forces were isolated to a small section of the town. don't patrol, don't leave it. i walked by a syrian checkpoint 3r50e 50 yards away and i got the same impression. the syrians didn't want to see us there because they didn't want to deal with the situation. there are defectors is leaving these outposts every single day. sometimes they are asking for the rebels to attack the outpost to give them an opportunity to escape so that their senior officers don't shoot them for defecting. >> the government side is calling the rebels and saying please attacking this outpost so that i can flee in response so i can get away from military service and join you. >> this is what some defector who's had fled were telling us. >> that is incredible. >> they're buying by the way the weapons from the defectors and from their own military. so the rebels are buying weapons if they have cash from the syrian army themselves. >> no two countries are exactly alike, but one of the things we have all watched as the various ars arab spring upricings have happened, we've been watching for the tipping point. if the military is an important institution, not just for monopoly of force but it's an important institution, when they start going to the anti-government side, then you pretty much know that the government's going to fall. >> we saw defections every day, people showing up every day to join the ranks of the rebels. bashar al assad i think it's fair to say does not control the people anymore. he's not president of syria anymore. he's president of the army. the army that's still loyal. and that's not sustainable for very long. >> that's shrinking. >> he's pulled back to the cities. and it's easiest to hold certain parts of cities and he's been very brutal in holding them. there's now fighting in damascus because the fighting is getting closer to him. once you lose the people and all the countryside and the vils, it's a matter of time but it could be a long time. his wraeps still more impressive and the rebels don't have a lot of weapons. so it could be one of these situations where it's slow, slow, very quick but we're in a different phase of the moon than we were. >> it is good to seep new this time zone. this incredible reporting. you'll be doing more on nightly and more on rock center. we've got an exclusive about cheating or at least what looks like cheating. the republican party doing something sketchy to try to avoid a big embarrassment for mr. romney. the wronged party is here tonight for the interview. this should be very interesting. [ female announcer ] with swiffer wetjet, cleaning better, doesn't have to take longer. i'm done. i'm going to... drink this... on the porch! ♪ give me just a little more time ♪ [ female announcer ] mops can be a hassle, but swiffer wetjet's spray cleaner and absorbent pads can clean better in half the time so you don't miss a thing. swiffer. better clean in half the time. or your money back. and for dry messes big and small try swiffer sweeper vac. do you have any idea where you're going ? wherever the wind takes me. this is so off course. nature can surprise you sometimes... next time, you drive. next time, signal your turn. ...that's why we got a subaru. love wherever the road takes you. when you lose an election, you're supposed to do this. >> for me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end. for all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on. the cause endures. the hope still lives. and the dream shall never die. >> senator ted kennedy giving up his dream of running for president in 1980 after holding on until the last possible moment. in that speech, using his defeat to begin to create a new legacy. it is a classic example of making lemonade out of political lemons. and one state right now though where the republican party has been given a whole bunch of lemons, they're not only making lemonade, they are refusing to acknowledge that they lost. and nobody is quite sure how to handle that. it is a very weird situation pretty much under the radar thus far but i think it is about to blossom into a really big deal. we've got details ahead. [ groans ] [ marge ] psst. constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. good morning, students. today we're gonna continue... this year, the democrats are holding their convention charlotte, north carolina. which is a drag for lots of democrats since democrats tend to support union rights and there is not a single union hotel in all of charlotte. who thought that one up? republicans this year are holding their convention in tampa, florida, which is drag for lots of republicans because tampa is the strip club capital of america, and republicans and strip -- actually, i don't know, maybe that's a plus for them. tampa i should note is the also the death metal capital of america. they gave the world bans like morbid angel and obituary. that's got to be a plus for some republicans going to the convention. but probably not all of them. the last time around in 2008, it ended up being really important where the republicans chose to put their convention. the republicans in 2008 put their convention in st. paul, minnesota. remember? and that ended up being really important because st. paul is one of two twin cities. st. paul and minneapolis are two cities that butt right up against each other separated only by the mississippi river. and that was really handy in 2008 because while the official republican convention was going on in st. paul, republicans that year also held a shadow convention at the same time in the other twin in minneapolis. and it was like a real convention, red, white, and blue ticker tape, a capacity crowd of adoring fans for the politics they were all there to see. even the obligatory rock song from tom petty who took legal action to try to stop them from using his music. the republican shadow convention in 2008 held across the river from the real deal was of course, a ron paul extravaganza. the ron paul shadow convention ended up being so big they had to move it into a bigger venue. >> i understand there's another meeting in a nearby town going on. let us be respectful. we have also noticed that those in the establishment aren't very anxious to welcome us in. >> what am i doing this for? what's the purpose of all this? and in many ways, it is to send a message. >> the ron paul shadow convention across the river from the rnc in 2008 was a huge hull ba loo. a huge crowd. everybody paid $17.76 to get in. he made a ton of noise. ron paul said they were there to send a message. ultimately, what was the message? it was a lot of sound and fury signifying mostly nothing because they had nothing to do. ultimately the real republican deal was across town with john mccain and sarah palin. and none of those ron paul fans in minneapolis had anything to get done there, no matter how excited they were. this year, the ron paul campaign has not planned a shadow convention. they are doing a preconvention rally ahead of the real republican convention in tampa, but that's it. and maybe there is a reason that the ron paul campaign has not planned a parallel we don't care you're holding a convention nearby blowout. maybe it's because this year at the republican convention, at the real republican convention, ron paul supporters might actually have something to do. quite a lot of the ron paul folks going to this preconvention rally in tampa the day before the convention, quite a lot of them are going to be in tampa anyway because they are dels to the republican national convention. and depending on what happens this upcoming had weekend, this coming saturday those delegates at the real convention who are ron paul supporters could really, really change i what is supposed to happen at the mitt romney convention. if ron paul gets the most dels as the nebraska's state republican convention this weekend, that would make nebraska the fifth state in which ron paul has accomplished that goal, getting the fleur reality of delegates. the republican party rules say that means ron paul would get to put his name forward at the convention. you know, in terms of whether or not he should be the nominee for president from the republican party. that would mean, among other things that, paul would be guaranteed a speaking slot of 15 minutes before the first round of balloting at the convention. that means republicans don't just get to coronate mitt romney as the uncontested nominee. that means there are dueling nominations and there are a whole bunch of ron paul supporting official delegate who are going to that convention. how do you think the prospect of that happening is going over with the republican party big wigs and the mitt romney folks? if you guessed they are approaching freak out status to try to stop this inconvenient democracy in their midst, you would be right. we've got an exclusive on that next from mitt romney's home court of massachusetts, and it is a very, very weird story. that's next. you sprayed them. thought they were dead. huh? [ male announcer ] should've used roundup. it kills weeds to the root, so they don't come back. roundup. no root. no weed. no problem. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about market volatility. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 in times like these, it can be tough to know which ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 way the wind is blowing. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we're ready with objective insights about ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 the present market and economic conditions. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and can help turn those insights into ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a plan of action that's right for you. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 so don't let the current situation take you off course. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 my name is evan kenny. i'm from wakefield. i'm a new comer to the republican party at 18 years old. you know, it's going to be tough to follow after mr. baker's speech. had i been of voting age, i certainly would have support you, mr. baker. >> evan kenny as was a high school senior and i if you comer to the republican party when he spoke at his regional republican party caucus back if april. he was trying to get a spot as an alternate del to the republican national convention in tampa in august. the man he had to follow in terms of giving a speech, the mr. baker he was saying he would have voted for had he been old enough to vote is charles baker, the republican party's most recent nominee for governor in massachusetts. mr. baker ran against democrat deval patrick in 2010 and he lost. incidentally mr. baker also lost that day in april where you just saw tape. at that caucus. charlie baker lost his bid to be an alternate delegate to the republican convention august and the person he lost to was that high school kid. who could not vote for him in 2010 on account of him only being 16 years old at the time. when massachusetts republicans got 0 together in april to pick delegates to the national convention, i think the idea was to quickly and painlessly elect a bunch of republican big wigs to go to tampa in august to vote for home state mitt romney as the party's nominee for president but that is not at all what happened. for starters there was evan kenny this high school kid who beat the party's last nominee for governor for one of the alternate spots on the delegation. young mr. kenny and a handful supporters of ron paul beat out carrie healy who was mitt romney's lieutenant governor and the republican nominee for governor in many massachusetts in 2006 and lost to deval patrick the first time. the current republican leader in the massachusetts house of representatives lost that day, too. also long time sheriff of essex county in massachusetts lost, as well. this is mitt romney's home state. all these big name republican elected officials couldn't even win plays on state delegation to go nominate him. he was the republican governor of massachusetts and the next two people who tried to be the republican governors of massachusetts after him, sorry, you didn't make the cut. there's a high school senior who's got more support than you. the whole ordeal was very embarrassing for the romney campaign. they had chosen a nice slate of romney supporting delegates who they thought would get rubber stamp approval and they would support him at the convention. these caucuses turned out not to be a rubber stamp an probable kind of deal. after the caucuses in april, the boston globe record less than half the delegates that the romney campaign had chosen actually won their spots on the delegation. the people won instead were in large part ron paul supporters enthusiastic high school kid and all. that is when things got messy. the party declared out of the blue in a way they never had before and in a way never mentioned in their rules that all the officially selected delegates from massachusetts this year would have to sign this affidavit. they would have to swarl under the pain and penalty of perjury that they would vote for mitt romney at the republican convention in august. some of the ron paul fans among the delegates balked at the affidavit. it's reasonable. what if something happens between now and the convention, romney gets his name pulled for some reason. massachusetts would have these guys legally bound to vote for him no matter what? that doesn't even make sense. the dels proposed an alternate pledge that was less specific and changed it so it would pledge them to follow the party rules, not to follow mitt romney as a named person. apparently the alternate affidavit was not good enough. the state party threw these guys out, even the ones who did turn in the affidavit were told they were out. they didn't sign it quickly enough. evan kenny and 16 other officially elected delegates were disqualified by the state republican party even though they won fair and square. they were disqualified as dels for failing to deliver the i pledge myself to mitt romney affidavit or for delivering it too late. so their own rules, their own duly conducted election be darned, the republican party came up with a whole new rule after the fact to keep the ron paul supporting rebel out. and when they kicked out evan kenny, the high school kid, wouldn't you know it, they decided they wanted to give his spot instead to, the guy who ran for governor. who evan kenny beat pair and square. joining us now for the interview is evan kenny. he's a ron paul supporter. it's great to meet you. >> it's an honor to be here. >> you wrote an excellent e-mail when we first covered this little scandal. i'm grateful to you for reaching out. how did it feel when you won, when you beat out some of these really bold-faced named republican in your state at that caucus? >> let me say first of all that charlie baker the speech that you just showed when i said that i'm an 18-year-old newcomer to the party the first hands to clap belonged to baker. charlie baker and luke noble were very excited to see this enthusiasm in the party. they did try to send charlie baker to the convention but he said no, absolutely not, i lost. >> even though they're trying to give him your spot, he's saying this is not fair. >> he's saying no. >> what was your reaction to being given that legal affidavit saying that you would vote for mitt romney under the pain of perjury? >> my reaction was okay, i didn't know the rules. i didn't know the affidavit had never been done before. i was like i pledge to do that at the caucus. that's all that's required in the rules. i was ready to send it in till someone pointed it out to me, my mom. she said you can't swear under pain and penalty to swear not to do something in the future. i said you're right. maybe i should it be careful. we decided to accepted in an affidavit that says we're going to follow massachusetts general law and the gop rules which means we'll vote for romney on the first ballot. >> that was not enough. >> even if i got it in on time. >> what was their explanation once did you turn in the affidavit that you turned? for why you couldn't go? >> two weeks later at the state committee meeting june 12th, had i signed that original affidavit. that's the third pledge. i gave it directly to the chairman of the committee who kicked me out and he sent me a letter signed with his name in ink three days later that said that romney for president ink had just cause and irrefutable evidence that i would not vote for mitt romney on the first ballot. i had a legally notarized pledge. i pledged three times to vote for mitt romney. i will be happy to represent the voters of massachusetts and vote for romney on the first ballot at the convention. >> why do you think they're doing? i mean, they're giving these legalistic explanations. what is your sense why they are doing this? you told the globe you feltd that you had been rudely waninged to the realities of politics. does that mean you think they are doing this for a reason other than what they are saying? >> maybe. i don't know i will say that this is the republican leadership in the massachusetts gop. they don't represent richard or charlie baker. she's people reached out and said bring the youth movement to the republican party. these are only a few corrupt power brokers in the leadership who want to keep the party to themselves. they're don't care it's only 11%. they just want to keep the power. >> forever in terms of the ron paul movement, and he's had a lot of different aspects to his career some of which i find repellent, some incredibly exciting. in 2008, in particular, 2007 until now, he really has spoken to young people in a way that other republican politicses have not. >> he's 76 years old. >> saying listen, all of these young people are interested in the message. they treat me like a rock star because what i am talking about. if the republican party wants to capitalize on my young voters, why don't you look into my message. why don't you think the republican party will do that? i feel tlan expublicly hostile to the paul supporters. >> the real republican party is me. the real republican party is charlie baker, these people copping out to represent the republican oath not to represent george bush and rush limbaugh but the republican oath which holds principles of sound money policy, free enterprise and even equal rights in the republican oath. >> i've heard of those. >> that's why i'm happy to say i'm a republican. i'm not the republican that george bush represents. i'm the republican that the republican oath represents. >> you are having to fight tooth and nail to be recognized by main line republicans in terms of what you just said. they ought to be really happy to have you. thanks a lot. good luck to you. evan kenney elected as alternate del for the republican party. see republicans, it's safe to come here. we can have very constructive discussions. we'll be right back. 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New-yorkUnited-statesTampaFloridaNorth-carolinaDamascusDimashqSyriaAfghanistanTurkeyBostonMassachusetts even more bad economic news is a massive tax increase. here's the problem with the romney camp's statement. it is blatantly false. but they think the head shaking crowd will buy what they say. the president did not propose a tax increase of any kind today. instead, president obama said that we should deal with the expiring tax cuts for 98% of americans right now. could congress do something right now? instead of waiting for the deadline on january 1st? come on, congressional members, prove you can earn your paycheck. whether or not the taxes should go up on the top 2% will be up to the voters in november. >> in many ways, the fate of the tax cut for the wealthiest americans will be decided by the outcome of the next election. my opponent will fight to keep them in place. i will fight to end them. >> so what is happening here in the president is showing a clear distinction between his idea of taxation and mitt romney's. president obama continued to highlight this line in the sand throughout the day. >> they say they agree that we shouldn't let middle class taxes go up. why not go ahead and take care of the 98% now. have the debate about the 2% and if mr. romney wins or the republicans control congress, they can go ahead and provide more tax breaks to the wealthy and if i win, we won't. >> of course, republicans will never allow this extoengs happen without extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. mitch mcconnell said so yesterday. >> what we ought to be doing is extend the current tax rates for another year with a hard requirement to get through comprehensive tax reform one more time. >> we all know the real reason republicans will not pass the extension for the majority of americans right now is because they need a hostage in order to get what they want, the middle class tax cut is the hostage this time. mcconnell said he learn this had lesson during the debt ceiling debate last year. we did learn this, it's a hostage that's worth ran soming. and it focuses the congress on something that must be done. this is why the obama camp is pushing the tax message right now, and it's really a brilliant move. in a campaign memo two weeks ago, white house adviser david fluff explained why this is a fight to win. if republicans want to talk about taxes, then we're happy to have that debate. republican plans will raise taxes on middle class families to give millionaires and billionaires a $250,000 tax cut. recent analysis problems this, my friends, to be true. for example, if you're a person who makes between $50,000 and $100,000 a year, listen up. your taxes will go up nearly $4500 under the republican noon offset the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. that's how they want to play the game. the big question tonight is whether democrats will follow the president's lead. this is where the president of the united states needs every democrat out on the campaign trail saying this is what we can do now. this is what we have to do. this is what americans want. and they should. as president obama pointed out today, his proposal is something that the vast majority of americans have agreed with for a long time. so i'm not proposing anything radical here. i just believe that anybody making over $250,000 a year should go back to the income tax rates we were paying under bill clinton. back when our economy created nearly 23 million new jobs, the biggest budget surplus in history and plenty of millionaires to boot. and this is not just my opinion. the american premium with me on this. >> okay, we got a poll for everything in america these days but you know what? there's a couple of years of polls backing the president's statement. the people are backing the president on this and have been for several years. gallup asked voters in 2010 whether tax cuts for the rich should be phased out. 59% of americans said yes. only 37% said no. fast forward. a year later. 2011. gallup asked if taxes should be increased on the wealthy. 66% of americans said yes. the top 2%'s got to do more. only 32% said no. that's a minority number, 32% where i come from. this year, fast forward to the numbers. gallup asked if the rich are paying their fair share in taxes. 62%, they said they paid too little. fair share 25%. 10% of americans think the wealthiest americans pay too much. yes, the people are with the president. the american people have been told that, well, we can't raise taxes on the job creators. you know what? i think they should take a poll on that because i think most americans are sick of that line. there has been no proof of any jobs created because the wealthiest americans have had the lowest taxes over the past decade. you never hear the rich explain to the american people just how bad they have had it under the old rates. where is that story? let's take somebody who makes $2 million a year. let's talk about a wealthy person. do you think if somebody was making $2 million a year, would you consider that person wealthy? i think you would. under is the bush rates, they would be taxed at 35%. that's where we are right now. under the old rate, from the clinton years, they were taxed at 36 -- 39.6%. 39.6 -- what's that mean in money here? see, bush rates, 35%. old rates, 39.6%. look at the numbers. this is with the bush tax cuts, this is what you would take home. $25,000 per week under the old rates. you take home $23,230 per week. someone maybe should go on fox news and explain just how hard it is just how hard it is to make it on this number. or that number or this number. let's go back to the old rates. this is what the president wants to do. $23230 per week is what somebody make 2g million a year would take home. ask yourself the question, could you live on that? the president is trying to fix the treasury. the president has come to the table. the democrats have come to the table and said okay, you want to do big cuts, we'll do big cuts but we want to do this, too. and the wealthy and republicans don't want to serve it up. i believe that the wealthiest americans can help save this country. i believe that. but there just doesn't seem to be any economic patriotism floating around these parts these days. it's all take, take, take. later in this broadcast, we will show you how middle class americans are serving it up, but the wealthiest americans are being protected by the republicans. ask yourself -- go ask your husband or your spouse, your wife, honey, could we make it on 25 grand a week? well, yeah. do you think we could make it on $23230 a week? that's where america is right now. the polls show it. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will republicans work for the middle class and extend the tax cuts for the 9%? text a for "yes," b for no to 622639. you can comment on our blog@ed.msnbc.com. it's about tax fairness, about common sense. it's about asking the tough question, can the wealthiest americans serve it up for america and president obama today is asking that question. i'm joined by howard fineman, nbc news political analy and editorial director of the "huffington post" media group. great to have you with us tonight, howard the president has to win the middle class to get re-elected. let's operate on that premise. does this issue win the middle class? >> well, the white house thinks so. an aide today said what you said, this is the way they're going to fight back. and i think the republicans and democrats inhabit different universes. mitt romney's really being run by that 10% that you showed in the poll, the 10% who think that taxes on the rich are too high. those are the people who are running his show. and from the republican strategist point of view and i talked to one today, they think any time they yell tax at barack obama, they've got a winner. he's a tax raiser. he's a tax raiser. that's their universe. they're talking to their own people to turn out their own people. the white house answer to that is going to be that mitt romney and the republicans are out to screw the middle class and they're not using the tax code in the best possible way to create jobs. because if you talk to economists, and i have, fair-minded ones, not raging liberals and you know fair-minded ones will tell you that cutting taxes on the wealthiest americans, while it might create some jobs is certainly not the most efficient way to use the tax code to create jobs. as a matter of fact, the best wait to create jobs is to focus tax cuts on the middle class. study after study has shown that. and that's part of the president's argument. >> well, is it an argument that can hold up? we're 120 days away from the election. this is going to be the narrative for the obama campaign, and this is really not mitt romney. this is the obama campaign and the president willing to make the clear distinction in front of the american people. so the question is, are they any republicans out there in congress that might wind up agreeing with the president on this extension? >> virtually none. certainly none that are in congress now. you have a few renegades out there, but don't forget, most are still signed on with the grover norquist no new taxes pledge, number one. number two, the republicans understand what mitch mcconnell said on television. which is they've got to hold together on this or the whole thing falls apart. the president is trying to split them very shrewdly i think. but procedurally in the congress, having caught up with a couple of congressional aides today, the republicans are not going to allow in the house, they will not allow the kind of vote that the president wants. >> no. >> that the president is daring them to have. it will never happen. >> yeah. >> so it's going to be a rhetorical thing. there will be a vote on an overwhelming -- on a complete reupping of extension of the tax cuts. the bush era tax cuts. there will be a vote on that in the house. all the republicans will vote for it. virtually all the democrats will vote against it. the republicans will then say see, obama and the democrats want to raisetachs and barack obama will lay down the marker he said again today. they wouldn't give me the vote i wanted and therefore, they're out to screw the middle class. what we've got as the president said, this is like the regular season of the nba. you know, nobody's paying -- the real ball game is going to be in the playoffs and then the finals are going to be right after the first of the year, and it's for home court advantage here. it's for whoever has home court advantage. >> the romney campaign has to get out on this because the polling shows that the wealthiest americans can be paying more. he can't wait till the last two minutes and play hard and expect to win this game, which is normally how a lot of regular season games go. i also think, how important is it for democrats to get behind the president on this? he's correct on this issue. the people are with him. how can any democrat go home and say i don't want to do it this way and turn around and say i'm for the middle class. >> i agree with you on that. we'll see what happens. i think the leaders of the congressional committee and the senatorial committee are behind the president on this. but let's see how they whip it to use the term from the hill and whether they can enforce that because they're going to be some candidates in some red states or swing places who are going to be reluctant to take the dare. but i agree with you, if the democrats don't go firmly on this and back up the president's strategy, then it will have no use whatsoever. >> they have to go to the fire wall on this issue. >> absent a vote, ed, they got to do it rhetorically if they're going to make the point stick. >> howard, thanks so much. remember to answer tonight's question. share your thoughts on twitter on ed show and on facebook. is mitt romney is not giving very good answers on why he has so much money socked away in offshore bank accounts. illinois senator dick durbin joins me next. stay with us. 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[ female announcer ] and that's what makes the moment we enjoy it, a little richer. ♪ real belgian chocolate whipped with philadelphia cream cheese. new indulgence. the moment just got a little sweeter. welcome back to "the ed show." democrats have come out swinging against mitt romney's offshore bank accounts. here's maryland governor martin o'malley. >> the relevance is this, that governor romney can't claim that his state actually was great at creating jobs when he was governor so he's fallen back and said look, vote for me. i was a businessman. i created jobs. you want to talk about going the way of europe, what went the way of europe were the swiss bank accounts and the american dollars that mitt romney stuffed in that offshore swiss bank account. >> and this is key in this campaign. mitt romney has never been critically questioned by any journalist as to why he has money over there. what's wrong with american investment? what's wrong with american jobs. >> of this guy's running around the country telling everybody he's a job creator. yet his real wealth is overseas. why is that? any manor has money overseas it's only for one reason and that is to be as wealthy as you can be. senior obama campaign adviser robert gibbs said romney's offshoring issues can be cleared up only by releasing more tax rush returns. >> the one thing he could do to show whether he's shielding his income in bermuda or switzerland is release a series of years of their own tax returns. >> i think we've got to be very clear about this. this isn't something ginned up by the obama campaign. this follows a week of more news reports about romney's offshore accounts. does that relate to average americans? do you have offshore accounts? the romney campaign spokeswoman said this. the obama campaign's latest unfounded character assault on mitt romney is unseemingly and disgusting. he had a successful career in the private sector, pays every dime of taxes he owes, has given charitibly to numerous organizations and served numerous organizations. but the fact remains this is a man running for president of the united states who seems to like offshore bank accounts, does he not? here's illinois senator dick durbin. >> he's the first and only candidate for president of the united states with a swiss bank account with tax shelters, with tax avoidance schemes that is involve so many foreign countries. you either get a swiss bank account to conceal what you're doing or you believe the swiss francing is stronger than the american dollar. >> let's turn to senate majority whip dick durbin of illinois. appreciate your time. >> thanks, ed. >> this is abnormal. you pointed that out. do you think the american people are okay with this, or is this a real issue? >> it's a real issue. and let's put it in perspective. who set the standard for income disclosure of presidential candidates? mitt romney's father. mitt romney's father filed 12 years of income tax returns and said, this ought to be the standard. how many years of income tax returns has mitt romney, his son filed? one it's the least amount of disclosure of any presidential candidate of either political party in the last 36 years. >> so it's tax avoidance or is it romney just not trusting american banks and the american currency? what do you think it is? >> i'm serious. i have asked business leaders, i have asked republican senators. i asked warren buffett the following question. what would anybody need a swiss bank account. buffett said i never had one. i think we've got a lot of great banks in america. they basically say the same thing. there are two reasons to have a swiss bank account, to conceal your wealth and transactions involving your wealth from government scrutiny, number one or number two, because you happen to think the swiss franc is a stronger currency than the united states dollar. i might remind you mitt romney made his decisions on moving money into switzerland when there was a republican president. >> today, romney said the offshore investments are in a blind trust. his comment was, i don't manage them. i don't even know where they are. is this an adequate response? >> no, and let me tell you why. when he was badgered by his fellow republican opponents in the course of the primary, he finally released one year's tax return. that's all we've seen. one year and they were able to trace this is san cady, a private corporation blind trust that his family owns, listen to this, ed, the day before he was sworn in as governor of massachusetts, he transferred the money in this san cady organization into a blind trust in his wife's name in some foreign tax haven. >> no coincidence. >> so it won't have to be reported. >> just happened to be the day before he was sworn in. >> yes. and so it's never been disclosed. and you have to ask yourself, the average american has to ask himself, why would we stand for a person running for the highest office in the land concealing important elements of their own investment decisions? >> so -- he says he's a great businessman. >> is this the way it's going to be up to the election, that we're going to know very little about the republican candidate's finances and where his money is and he tells the american public he doesn't note where they are, it's managed by somebody else. >> he's taking on water on that little boat when it comes to disclosure at this point because americans are skeptical of this. >> you are sponsoring a bill to reduce tax haven abuse. >> here's what it boils down to. al franken and i put in a bill several months ago that says on the financial disclosure forms for all members of congress, for all candidates for president and vice president, you have to specifically disclose whether or not you or anyone in your family is invested in foreign tax havens to avoid taxes in the united states. i think that's a very basic question that should be asked not just of mitt romney but of all members of congress, all candidates for president. >> do you think that mitt romney is abusing the american tax system and not paying his fair share? i don't know. i wouldn't draw that conclusion. i would say to him present the evidence. show us what you've done. have you paid your fair share of taxes? have you handled your financial affairs as a businessman and a person of wealth in a manner that's responsible. >> senator dick durbin, good to have you with us on the. thanks so much. coming up, the republicans are coming unhinged. find out why they're ramping up the attack on president obama when we come back. and the 1% came out in droves this weekend to be support mitt romney. keith boykin, ron christie and john fugual sang will weigh in on the republicans' fund-raising taking place in the hamptons over the weekend. stays. we're right back. those surprising little things she does still make you take notice. there are a million reasons why. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee. show." as president obama's poll numbers get better, the right wing seems to getting crazier. the chair of the national republican party, the committee, the rnc says re-electing president obama will end america as we know it? >> mitt romney has to win for the sake of the very idea of america. mitt romney has to win for liberty and freedom and we have put an end to this barack obama president before it puts an end to our way of life in america. >> generic pab lum is what it's called. text tea party candidate ted cruz joked that the president might put him and his supporters on a so-called kill list. >> kill list. should congress have oversight? well, number one, i'm worried all of us are on it. >> but nobody's laughing when florida representative alan west claims the obama administration wants to enslave americans by offering food stamps and unemployment benefits. >> we are creating economic depend and thecy and i call it slavery. it's not physical but it can be even worse because it trounces the indomitable spirit of the united states of america. >> i think that the reason people love you is because you're so plain spoken. >> and crazy. on many subjects i might add. the governor of maine might have been too outspoken. paula page apologized for what he said about affordable health care during a radio address. >> you must buy health insurance or pay the new gestapo, the irs. >> governor lepage apologized for that gestapo remark saying it wasn't my intent to insult anyone especially the jewish community or minimize the fact that millions were murdered. at the should have stopped there, but he added more crazy talk. he says the word gestapo simply clouded his message and insists our individual freedoms are being spriped away by the federal government. the chair of the rnc claims that president obama is the most negative campaigner this country has ever seen. that might be the craziest thing they've claimed so far. richard wolffe, great to have you with us tonight. is the obama campaign running a negative campaign? >> well, they are running negative ads but that's not all they're talking about. you know, as in any campaign, certainly as it happened in 2008, they're running positive ads. they've got a positive agenda and they're talking about their opponent in yes, critical way. that's the nature of politics. you know, i'm just surprised that these republicans many of whom gained power and elected office through the bush years have norection at all of this guy called karl rove and the politics that he's brought through that period and into the current one with his current organizations like crossroads. this is their kind of politics. they should recognize it, but they should also recognize that's how these elections get played out throughout america by the way, that's what the founders intended a vigorous contest and ask the historian who's look at abraham lincoln's time. there's nothing particularly dirty about this time. >> well, ramping up the rhetoric, clearly that's what they're doing. how does romney benefit in any way from this in why doesn't he tell them to back off and get to the fakes? because it's all a lot of generic hateful talk and hate and scare tactics. i don't see that he benefits from that. >> for a start, i don't think he's in a position to tell the party anything. if anything, the party's telling him what to do as we saw just last week on the whole question of the health care maate. was it a penalty or a tax. he'll change his tune no matter what because he came out of the primaries incredibly weak. this is a party that cannot exert central organization in any way. john boehner doesn't have a lot of control over his own caucus. the problem for the romney campaign is that if it's just about firing up the base, if they think there are enough republicans out there, this makes sense. they know full well if you look at their messaging and how they're trying to position themselves, this election will be decided by the middle by independent voters, by infrequent voters, the people who are not going to be fired up by this kind of crazy talk. >> when the president comes out today and offers up an extension of tax cuts to 98% of americans that's nothing but positive. it's winning the middle class. does today's announcement somewhat shift this campaign and put more pressure on romney? what do you think? >> for a start, the president's talking about the economy again and about pocketbook issues. what are republicans going to do? they want another vote on repealing health care they're off mess and, off topic. they wanted to frame this whole tax debate about money going to everyone, a sort of equality issue. this president reframed it in terms of middle class and how do you get the economy moving again for the middle class in the short term and long-term. i think this is how as president, having the bully pulpit means you set the agenda. the other side has to respond in a meaningful vote. that doesn't mean another repeal of health care. >> richard wolffe, thanks so much. a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show'. the reports from mitt romney's koch brother fund-raiser read like an obama bashing mustard commercial. >> pardon me, would you have any gray poupon. >> the big panel weighs in next. police and firefighters. forced to take minimum wage pay decreases. we'll tell you about the middle class nightmare in scranton, pennsylvania. and it's the picture everyone is talking about. and now the man in the kayak is telling his story. >> i looked behind me and that's when i saw the shark. which is pretty much right there. i'll ask shark expert chris wojuk if the increased shark sightings on cape cod are anything to worry about. for such heavy measures with olay. regenerist micro-sculpting serum for firmer skin in 5 days. pretty heavy lifting for such a lightweight. [ female announcer ] olay regenerist. like in a special ops mission? you'd spot movement, gather intelligence with minimal collateral damage. but rather than neutralizing enemies in their sleep, you'd be targeting stocks to trade. well, that's what trade architect's heat maps do. they make you a trading assassin. trade architect. td ameritrade's empowering web-based trading platform. trade commission-free for 60 days, and we'll throw in up to $600 when you open an account. you're entered for a chance to win a trip to the olympic games for life. to cheer the summer athletes to new heights, starting in 2016... as you experience every moment, every emotion, every four years... for the rest of your life. visa. supporting athletes and the olympic games for 25 years. people everywhere go with visa. well, they were high on the hog. in fact, they dined on prosciutto wrapped melon balls, mingled in multi million dollar mansions while live bands played margaritaville. the 1% showed up in droves this weekend to support one of their very own, mitt romney raked in close to $4 million at a trio of fund-raisers in the hamptons on new york's long island. it began with a $25,000 plate lun yoch at the estate of one billionaire and ended up with a $75,000 per couple can at the estate of david koch. these romney supporters drove up in bentleys and porsches, one donor called president obama a socialist from inside a gold mercedes. another poked her head out back of a black range rover demanding, is there a vip entrance? we're vip. romney himself was there to hobnob with his own kind, but as one new york city donor told "the l.a. times," the former massachusetts governor needs to do a better job connecting with the little people. the quote was, i don't think the common person is getting it. nobody understands why obama is hurting them. we've got the mess and, she added but my college kid, the baby-sitters, the nails lady, everybody who's got the right to vote, they don't understand what's going on. i just think that if you lower income, one, you're not as educated, two, they don't understand how it works. they don't understand how the system works, they don't understand the impact. wow. these comments have been all over the web today. joining me now i guess this is the men's grill after these guys got off the golf course. this is mens night out here. i've had ladies here three at one time, as well. be cool about it. >> oh, go bragging. >> i'm not bragging. keith boykin, great to have you with us tonight. ron christie, good to have you back on the program, john fugelsang, always. ron, first, what about these comments? it's almost as if these people at these fund-raisers are talking down hard working middle classers. >> i don't think so. to coin the phrase that john mcenroe, come on ed, you can't be serious for the obama folks to criticize mitt romney for raising money this week, i look to anna wintour. she went to sarah jessica's place in new york and raised a ton of party. to suggest that obama is out of touch is a nice bit of political theater but they all do it. >> every candidate raises money. it's about the attitude of the 1% who are attending mitt romney's fund-raisers, people contributing to this. the egoism and arrogance of these people to suggest that somehow the rich know better than the rest of america, that to me is a representation of the class warfare that republicans are always crying about. >> only in this case. >> it's only class warfare if you fight for the bottom 99% of the population. i will no idea days i buchanan from the great gatsby was a romney supporter. it's aristocracy versus democracy. six states will decide this election. mitt's supposed to run on his personality or his record? no, he's got to raise the super pac money and flood the six states with negative ads. otherwise all he's got is his own record which conservatives don't like. >> is it an attitude issue? >> absolutely. >> workers versus the wealthy? >> that's the distinction between him and obama. ron is right. obama is rolling around in the wall street dough as well but he stood in front of the supreme court and decried citizens unites. he sure can't win on his record. >> ron, you have the floor on the attitude issue. >> i think it's an attitude issue for the republicans and democrats when they're seen in these haifa luton plays raising money by very wealthy donors. governor romney is doing because he's legal. you're not going to tell me somehow the republicans have an attitude problem when president obama is out at the home of george clooney, he's going to do a fund-raiser overseas. these fellows are operating with the guidelines of the law. they're doing what they're legally obligated to do. let me finish my last point. to say that republicans don't look at people and say if you're not in the top whatever%, area going to look down on you. they look at people as individuals, not by how much money they have. >> exactly, john. we saw those people at the hamptons fund-raiser, people donating to mitt romney doll exactly that. the problem is not about people making a lot of money. this is america. we don't have a problem with that. the problem is about the attitude. >> you don't think there's an attitude at all with rich democrats when they have these fund-raisers? >> it's very different. >> they're not giving money to the obama campaign hoping to help prop up the 1% and the aristocracy. the reason why this fits in so neatly with the romney narrative about disclosing his tax returns, why won't he disclose his returns, why does he have an account in bermuda or why in the cayman islands or why in a swiss bank account. it contributes to this feeling that somehow mitt romney and the people he's representing are not really trying to help the working class. >> they're pulling the wool over their eyes. this is a losing strategy for you guys. americans are saying this country is hurting. it doesn't matter whether you have $1 million in the bank, $10,000. what are you going to do to put policies forward that help americans. this class warfare nonsense is a distraction. >> what is mitt romney going to do to help those people tax cuts for the rich? >> it's not just tax cuts. this whole mantra of all republicans care about is tax cuts. if you look at health care. >> war too. >> look at health care. republicans have said we need to have a system in place where you can buy insurance across state lines and pool together. that's an innovative idea. >> they've had 30 years to implement it and did nothing. romney's running on trying to do exactly what bush did and call it something different. and for anyone who is not a millionaire to still vote gop, they're a damn sucker. no republican president has balanced a budget since nixon. there's no reason to trust your money with these folks anymore. all they are good is redistribution of wealth to the top 2% and making conservative americans think that's a good thing. >> ron, he made some good points >> he made interesting points. the reason that modern american history we had a balanced budget it was the republicans. i worked for the house republican budget chairman who worked with president clinton. >> raisingtachs. >> and said we need to have honest deficit reductions. >> fair enough. >> good discussion. 19th hole. i like it. keith boykin, great to have you with us. john fugelsang. >> we'll continue in the green room. >> coming up, the disgrace of paying police officers and firefighters minimum wage? 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[ feedback ] attention, well, everyone. you can now try snapshot from progressive free for 30 days. just plug this into your car, and your good driving can save you up to 30%. you could even try it without switching your insurance. why not give it a shot? carry on. now you can test-drive snapshot before you switch. visit progressive.com today. this county, this city has gone through some tough times. it's had its heyday, it's come back. it's had tough times. >> welcome back to "the ed show." vice president joe biden on the campaign trail in scranton, pennsylvania, which once again is going through tough times. the mayor chris do you herty reduced the pay of all city workers including his own pay and the pay of police and firefighters to minimum wage. $7.25 an hour. scranton is broke. they're out of money. the mayor wants to raise taxes to make up a $16 million budget gap, but the city council wants to borrow the money and they can't agree on anything. the terrible practical effect can be seen with the firefighters' pay. john judge is a scranton firefighter and president of the international association of firefighters local 60. he normally gets about $1500 every two weeks after deductions. on friday, his check was less than $600 before deductions. he says he's not sure how long he can pay bills on this kind of salary. this isn't just about scranton, pennsylvania. every time president obama sends a bill 0 congress that includes more money for state and local firefighters and police force workers, republicans, what do they do? they kill it. mitt romney is equally dismissive of public workers. >> he wants to hire more government workers. he says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. did he not get the message of wisconsin the american people did. it's time for us to cut back on government and help the american people. >> well. this can happen. scranton, pennsylvania, it really can happen anywhere in the country and it would set a precedent. police and firefighters getting minimum wage? it's an absolute disgrace, our infrastructure falling apart and being attacked. tomorrow night, mr. judge will join us and tell us how this is impacting his family and how he's going to pay the bills and, of course, the fate of other city employees in scranton. tonight i asked you, will republicans work for the middle class and extend the tax cuts? for the middle class? 98% of you said no. 3% of you said yes. coming up, it's shark week on both coasts. find out how a kayaker managed to escape a great white. the amazing story when we come back. you know what i love about this country? trick question. i love everything about this country! including prilosec otc. you know one pill each morning treats your frequent heartburn so you can enjoy all this great land of ours has to offer like demolition derbies. and drive thru weddings. so if you're one of those people who gets heartburn and then treats day after day, block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place. 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[ screaming ] >> well, some real life sharks are scaring the heck out of beachgoers on both coasts this summer. just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water, take a look at this picture. a man was kayaking for the first time off cape cod yesterday when a great white shark started to follow him. >> i got a pretty good glimpse of him. it was good sized. i just turned and paddled. >> that's walter. he was only 100 feet offshore when he saw that dorsal fin. he actually teased his daughter earlier in the day about being afraid of sharks. the harbor master estimates the great white shark was 12 to 14 feet long. >> he says his instincts kicked in. >> i thought it was either in or get in. i kind of ran out of the water like a little child. >> another kayaker on the west coast had a much closer encounter with an even bigger shark this weekend. look what the shark did to the bottom of his kayak in santa cruz, california. 15-foot long great white bit into the hull. you can see the teeth marks. the shark left behind fragments. he wasn't hurt. both beaches in santa cruz and or leans are open today. swimmers are being told to watch out for seals, not sharks. experts say the sharks are hunting seals, not people. even so, it makesvationers nervous. >> the thought of a shark coming near me up in the water is freaky. >> definitely makes you think twice about jumping in the water. >> i'm joined by chris wojcik. what do you make of all of this? >> i have that same conversation about once a day that that fellow had with his daughter which is to tell people there's no reason to be afraid when you go in the water of sharks. i mean, obviously, that's where sharks live. we live to re-create there. sooner or later we are going to overlap and come in contact with one another. >> what about the seals? is this a global warming issue? because all mr. life relates to water temperature. what's happening mere. >> marine life generally moves around the ocean relating to water temperature. it almost acts like a physical barrier or a wall. certain fish or marine mammals won't cross through that wall. they basically move along these what we call fronts and it's just basically an area of big temperature difference. so the seals i think that their population has actually been increasing greatly over the last couple years which is a good thing. but unfortunately, for swimmers, their primary predator is the great white shark and that's copping in closer contact with humans. >> how much danger was that gentleman on the kayak in? >> i would say that when this picture was taken, he was in very little bit of danger. probably a couple of minutes before that, before anyone actually saw the shark, he was probably in a little bit more. >> why is that? >> because great white sharks are what are referred to as ambush predators and lurk low down near the bottom and hunt things up at the surface and they're making a silhouette along the top. so basically the sun is over the top and you look very much like a seal or a sea lion swimming along. what's that the shark is looking for that silhouette along the top of the water. >> so i'm hearing from you that you really don't think these sharks are hunting people, that it is safe to go in the water, that this is unusual. >> i would say that the second story that you had shown there with kayaker who was actually knocked out of the kayak, he was actually -- he was actively being hunted by that white shark for sure. and the nice thing if you want to call it that is generally once the white shark comes up and feels you, sharks don't have hands or fingers. they can't come over to you and push on you and feel what you are. the only thing that they will have that they can use are their mouths and teeth. what the shark did is came up and he felt the kayak with his teeth. unfortunately, that type of contact, you know, leaves some scars behind sometimes. >> chris, thanks for joining us tonight. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schulze. the rach l mel maddow show star right now. >> feeling it with one's teeth. >> the dorsal fin starts the heart attack on the big guy right here. >> i know what you mean. i can't even look at a person with a mohawk, i get the same feeling. it's good you to have back. thanks a lot. >> and thanks to you at home. for staying with us for the next hour. the side effect of the fourth of july falling on a wednesday this year, you know it was wednesday of last week, side fect is that nobody really knew when fourth of july weekend was. was it the weekend before the fourth, after the fourth? i for one celebrated both. but it wasn't really clear which was the right weekend to celebrate. one thing that is clear though now is that the fourth of july weekend whenever it was is over. we are back. today in washington, it was like the first day of school. summer's over. everybody is back and doing what they want to be doing for the next few months. the republican-controlled house back in session today. they of course, now are hard at work on their jobs, jobs -- just kidding. house republicans are naturally working on abortion this week just like they always do. another abortion ban they are pursuing for washington, d.c. gets marked up tomorrow. because you know, jobs, jobs, jobs. house
New-yorkUnited-statesPhiladelphiaPennsylvaniaFloridaIllinoisWisconsinWashingtonDistrict-of-columbiaLondonCity-ofUnited-kingdomhood and ignoring the most ignorant toothless person they can find when there's a brother on the corner in a suit. terry jones is this -- is an example of this. if the media didn't follow and cover him and he has been doing this since he started his 50-member church, we wouldn't be talking about him right now. and general petraeus won't have anything to say about him. thank you, media. >> how do you stop a feeding frenzy when it's started by the highest ranking military man fighting a war in afghanistan? i don't think it's the media's fault at all. i mean, you have the secretary of state hillary clinton talking about it. you have the president coming out speaking about this. >> but who's asking the questions, ed? the media sticking pikes in front of these people asking them for their opinion on something when i agree with palin tonio we will should have ignored him from the start. why is he in front of our camera? you have to put your fingers up when you say pastor because the christians say what would jesus
Terry-jonesExamplePersonBrotherCornerHoodSuitMedia-didnt-followPolitical-attacks-won-tMediaAnythingChurchthis position. joan great to have you with us tonight. >> thanks, ed. here is a blast from the past, psychotalker rush limbaugh, the crazy pastor terry jones were high school teammates and we found their yearbook photos, the drugster and the psyc psyc psychopastor graduated from cape central high school in cape gerardo, missouri, both members of the class of 1969 but i'm sure it wasn't the summer of. something's got to be in the water in missouri, i don't know, maybe they ought to check it out. finally a quick programming note tonight, tune in to msnbc tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern for the premiere of "brian williams reports, new orleans, an american story." coming up, liz winnstead is about to take the stage in one of my favorite cities. she's not charging, folks, $225 a pop to sit and have a drink with her in the section.
PastorPositionUsThanksEd-schulzeTerry-jonesJoan-walshHigh-school-teammatesBlast-from-the-pastYearbook-photosPsychotalkerCrazyand jobs. but less than 12 hours later, he had to go on national tv in the morning and talk about this nut job pastor down in florida. today his press conference, the president tried to keep the focus on jobs but he still had to deal with questions about burning korans. somebody close to the president of the united states needed to step up and keep him out of this latest debacle. it's been a big distraction and it's too bad it land. i think the advisers this week anyway did a very poor job of protecting the boss. and this country is paying a price for it. joining me now is joan walsh, editor-in-chief salon.com. joan, your thoughts on this. i think it was a low moment for the obama administration to having it spiral out of control where the president of the united states has to comment on this. what do you think? >> you know, ed, a couple days ago, i think i would have completely agreed with you, but i just want to make one or two points. salon this morning ran then excellent piece by justin elliott that really was a tick tock of how this controversy
President-obamaPastorJobsFloridaNutJobPress-conferenceQuestionsFocusTv12Presidentthe steps of the lincoln memorial for the one nation rally on saturday october 2nd, i'll be joining the naacp and all is the unions, afl-cio, the service employees international union, afscme and the steelworkers, real workers of america, wage earners of america and i'm determined to restore real honor for the millions of desperate american who have been ignored and left behind and haven't been the bish riff all those billions of dollars that the president was talking about today in his press conference. get your cell phones out, folks. i want to know what you think about all of this. tonight's text survey is, do you believe president obama is doing everything he can to make your life better? text a for "yes," text b for "no" to 622639. we'll bring you the results later in the show. joining me now is a true crusader for the middle class, sherrod brown sits on the senate appropriations and banking committee. good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be back, ed, thanks.
AllOne-nationStepsUnionsRallyService-employees-international-unionAfl-cioLincoln-memorialAfscmeNaacp2Onewhich he was pedaling today at this the event sponsors by ralph reed the former head of the christian coalition turned jack aim ram mof pal, seemed to be promoting him for the presidency. newt's book is called "to save america," a little messianic complex there, ed? i think so. what he's done is he recycles all of his bad ideas from when he was speaker of the house and now overlays it with a lot of phony history and phony constitutional law and giving people the impression if you are not a born again fundamentalist christian.who wants your christian world view to be reflected in government, you're pretty much a second class citizen. he continues to get the biggest applause today whenever he talked about so-called radical islam. forgetting apparently that the biggest danger to this country from fundamentalists right now in terms of taking over our government are from fundamentalist of christian
EventMof-palPedalingHeadRalph-reedChristian-coalitionJack-aimAllLotHousePresidencyEd-schulzeunfolded. and really what was ed, in truth, is that it was an issue in muslim countries. hundreds of people were demonstrating last weekend in kabul. there have been protests in indonesia, in cairo, it's been all over their newspapers, their television stations, and it's really become this horrible symbol, and so you know i think that when petraeus was asked about it by the "wall street journal" it was in that context of there really is an escalation of risk and anger and threat to our soldiers, so i can't criticize at least petraeus and hillary clinton for what they said about it. >> i'm not, you know i just think it was poorly managed. don't we have anybody in any kind of position that would be undercover to go down and talk to this guy and say you know what? you got the boss's attention and this is what's happening overseas, is this what you're all about? is this an attention-getting mission that you're on?
PeopleTruthEd-schulzeCountriesIssueProtestsKabulCairoIndonesiaHundredsItNewspapers we have or he has been in contact with the imam in new york city. he has agreed to move the location. >> but from sources in the office of the imam no deal to move park 51 and the man in the middle -- >> i have made this morning contact with the office of the imam and got the commitment to fly out to new york and meet with him in the company of pastor jones to discuss and come to a decision on relocating the mosque. our special guest, imam mohammad mosri. >> rendition is still unchecked. an appeals court tosses the lawsuit that challenges the company that flew its victims. jonathan turley joins me. steven hawking's argument. no god is needed to create a universe. just gravity and quantum theory. our guest, his co-author and david letterman and i play for a possible 2012 presidential candidate. >> it could be another bush. we haven't had enough of them. >> that's his campaign slogan. >> i'll reveal what it is so somebody called jeb up and tell him to watch. all of the news and commentary now on "countdown." good evening from new york. this just in from kerry sanders in florida. we're a little back to square one he now quotes pastor terry jones of the dove church in that state. i'm praying, he tells sanders, to decide what to do next. two days before the ninth anniversary of 9/11, 48 hours before the planned burning of korans by a small florida church and our fifth story on the "countdown" tonight. the koran burning has been suspended. originally the pastor of the church said the burning was canceled. the ugly ramifications, it is too late to call back no matter what happens next already rippling through afghanistan. we'll have that later in the hour. we begin with pastor jones of the dove world outreach center in gainesville, florida, who decided months to go to burn korans to take a stand against radical islam and what he described as american accommodation of it. despite a direct appeal by president obama via abc news today on that program and despite a personal appeal in a phone call from defense secretary gates today because of the violence it could inspire against u.s. troops. jones continued to say only god's word would sway him. that word apparently came today from our guest or via our guest standing by, imam muhamma muhammad musri, standing by from the islamic society of central florida who says he has arranged a meeting between jones and imam rauf of the islamic center planned for two blocks from ground zero in new york city. jones described this as a deal to move that islamic center in new york and said then that not only was he canceling his koran burning saturday but that no one should burn any korans. that was what he said then. >> we are, of course, now against any other group burning korans obviously. we have accomplished our goal. we have accomplished what we feel god wants us to do. we would right now ask no one to burn korans. we are very, very strong on that. as strong as we were that they should burn korans. it is now not the time to do it. >> mr. jones was told, however, that new york organizers of that islamic center said they have not agreed to move it. jones was asked whether he felt tricked in exactly what he was told. >> that the imam would move the mosque from ground zero. i was told he cannot move it tomorrow. i said that is fine. but it cannot be in ten years. these are the exact words that i said. the man said that's fine. i said now he has agreed to move the mosque away from the ground zero area. yes, he has. that's what i was told. do i feel tricked? >> yes. >> yes, of course. i don't feel tricked. i was lied to. that's why at this time i'm not prepared to believe that. i'm not prepared to make that accusation. i want to just wait and see and i'm right now believing his word. i find it very hard to believe that he would lie to me. >> that was followed by jones' associate pastor coming out to reporters this evening and suggesting they might return to being just as for burning korans as they are currently against burning korans if the new york city islamic center does not move. >> we have not canceled the burning on saturday. we've suspended it until we get a confirmation on the information we were given today in a meeting full of different members of the church on what was said. >> with us now as promised, imam muhammad musri from the islamic society of central florida. thank you for joining us today. we appreciate it sincerely. >> thank you, keith. glad to be here. >> where does this stand? do you know? pastor jones seem to think the leaders of the new york center agreed to move the center further away from the location of ground zero. is he mistaken about that? what exactly did you tell him? >> prior to going inside to meet with him when i submitted a request to meet with him, i spent an hour in the sun and during that time i talked to the media and explained exactly what i came to do. and that's exactly what i went inside and did and that is i told him i arranged for a meeting between me, himself and imam abdul rauf, that the imam in new york has through his office agreed for us to meet up in new york if he gives up the event on saturday. i told him clearly i am not in any way connected to the event in new york. i have no control over it. i cannot promise you that it will be moved but my position is for it to be relocated to a more ideal position somewhere we can avoid the controversy going on on that side. i said i advocate for that prior to this incident here and i'm willing to go personally to new york to do that. he clearly understood that there were no cut deals over there in new york. neither him nor i spoke to the imam in new york and we were under no fallacy that a deal had been made. a deal where he gives up this and the imam in new york gives up that. >> if there was no deal, what's your reaction to him saying he was going to new york to arrange how quickly and far away the park 51 center was going to be moved? >> the main reason that we came out and he agreed to call off the event on saturday was not centered on what's happening in new york or not. it was based on the fact that today is the last day of ramadan, that tomorrow morning in a few hours in the middle east and in the world, muslims will be celebrating one of the two holiest days and during that hundreds of millions of people will be heading to mosques where a message will be delivered by imams, some of whom are radical and may use his event on saturday to radicalize the use and to turn people against us in the united states so i told him time is of the essence. if you wait until friday or saturday, it will be too little too late anyway. you have to make a decision now and so people across the world will hear your message that you canceled this so that tomorrow morning we would not see riots and see demonstrations in the streets of pakistan, afghanistan and elsewhere. >> imam musri, the premise of this as you left the first meeting with pastor jones, as you understood it and as you understood him to understand it was you believe that it would be a good gesture if the new york center was moved further away from ground zero. he certainly did. you were going join him in new york to talk to imam rauf to talk about the prospect of doing and that perhaps to advocate for that as a gesture of good will as the stopping of the burning of korans would be. is that the way you thought it was when you left that meeting? >> precisely. i repeated that three or four times inside the building. yes. >> then, let me ask you -- ask you one question about that that equates -- essentially the burning of the korans and building of this islamic community center in new york at some distance from ground zero, these two things have somehow become equated or perhaps conflated. why n your opinion, as a leader of your faith, are these things even remotely connected and why shouldn't there be an islamic center exactly where they have it planned at 51 park place in manhattan? >> i did not think they were connected at all. i thought that he connected them clearly when he stepped out in front of the cameras but inside i told him those are two separate issues completely separate. and the issue of burning the koran is something that will trigger reaction across the muslim world and it is not congruent with his christian beliefs but the project in new york is something totally different. it is not breaking any law. it is in the constitutional rights of the muslim community of new york to do it. i told him my personal take on it, that respecting the wishes of large number of americans who feel the controversy could be avoided by relocating the mosque, i said i'm for that position at this point. and i wish to talk to the imam in new york on that but these two events are not linked at all, in my opinion. >> i'll close where i began in that malstrom of trying to understand where it all stands rite now. do you understand where it all stands right now? is this church going to go ahead with the latest pledge not to do anything on saturday? is that at least going to happen? will there be a meeting? are you going to new york? >> i believe that pastor jones would keep his words. that's what i urge of him. and otherwise all that we have done for two days in a row will go to waste. it wasn't just what i told him but it was the many christian leaders who called him and the messages from president obama to the secretary of defense, everybody talked to him. it wasn't me but i gave him a face to see a muslim in front of him and talk to him and direct his frustration and anger towards me rather than to something he never seen. and towards a book. so he feels that we have a deal, and he is going to give me the time to make the contact with new york and arrange for the meeting and follow through with our planned event to meet with imam abdul rauf and try to reach a deal there. but i do not believe at this time that pastor jones will go back to what he was planning to do on saturday. >> hopefully that is the truth. imam muhammad musri of the islamic society of florida, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, keith. >> let's turn to michael eric dyson. welcome back, professor. >> always good to be here, brother olbermann. do you think you know what happened here and happening here and the imam's faith that we are not going to have a koran burning on saturday justified? >> i think it is overreaching. he's a kind and gentleman, a supremely gifted orator for the profound beliefs of the islamic world, but i think he's overreaching here unfortunately because i think that the unpredictable and arbitrary terrorism being practiced, the rhetorical terrorism, the bigotry of pastor jones has to be called for what it is. this is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to engage in the most narcissistic form of manipulation of media and the broader world. a 50-member church commanding international and global awareness precisely because of his recalcitrants and refusal to acknowledge the basic principles of his faith which teach him not to hate other people, not to dog other people, not to demonize other people. even jesus says i have members and sheep of other flocks that you don't even know about. we have to at least have enough religious humility to say he may not be christian, other religious faiths have honorable members who deserve to be heard equally as much as christians themselves. >> to say nothing of standing in the bible. how do the politics look to you on this at the moment? the president spoke indirectly to jones. i said directly i meant indirectly via the interview with george stephanopolous. but the defense secretary spoke to him directly, on the other hand, with one or two exceptions here, the republicans here who have spoken out have done so reluctantly or belatedly. john mccain did it today. why did our political leaders have such trouble on this one? >> i think let's be honest here. it's troubling to admit on the far right pastor jones may express opinions and beliefs of some of the core ideological tenets that are hailed by these folk that they don't want to come out and say. he becoming both whipping boy and icon at the same time. he's useful on both sides of the debate. on the other hand, i think that mr. obama speaking indirectly and secretary gates directly suggests that i thought we didn't deal with terrorists, and we didn't negotiate with terrorists here and here's a man commanding such international and global media ink precisely because he refuses to acknowledge the fundamental principles of decency that any religion should teach. people said to martin luther king jr. constantly, don't build your mosque. no. don't bring your march here. don't come to birmingham, alabama. it's going tear the fabric of society, it's going to rip the y unity that we have. you're an extremist. seven clergymen got together in good faith and said don't build your movement here. don't bring it here. martin luther king jr. said i must do it now. they said be gradual. he said we can't take the drug of gradualism. we must talk about the fierce urgency of now and he said you call me an extremist. i used to be upset by that but now i say an extremist for was? an extremist for bigotry or extremist for love? i think if pastor jones were an extremist for love and compassion that would be a great thing. i'm afraid that even if the imam decided to move the mosque, that looks like a victory for compassion and sensitivity. in reality it's a concession to the worst form of bigotry and reactionary forces that would indeed have the upper hand again. >> lastly, is there still some kernel of good news in this? because of all the things we don't know and we discussed it, and obviously the imam doesn't know and the associate pastor doesn't know and pastor doesn't know, the parts of the deal that we seem to believe are intact. koran burning canceled. moderate new york muslims to meet with fundamentalist florida christian. is that good news? >> it's good news when people sit down at the table of brotherhood so to speak and sisterhood and talk across ideological differences and religious differences. at the same time, i think it's problematic again because it looks as if there's a distinction between us and them. the problem is them over there. the muslims. and those of us over here, the christians, we're right. there are problems within christian fundamentalism that are problematic. so i'm an ordained baptist minister. i find problematic the beliefs of christian fundamentalists. we ostensibly supposedly serve the same god, but at the end of the day it doesn't look like that to me. the problem is not between us and them. it's between divisive and bigoted beliefs, and howard thurman, the great preacher said the bigot is a person who makes an idol of his commitments. we can't worship at the altar of our commitments. we have to worship at the altar of a god who loves everybody. and my faith teaches me we should be open to that. so conversation is great. conversion to humanity and compassion even better. >> georgetown university professor michael eric dyson, it's always a pleasure. thank you again. >> thank you for having me. just the threat of koran burning led to distribution of pamphlets. threatening american service personnel in afghanistan. we'll talk to the father of one of our troops stationed in the exact area where those threats were made next on "countdown." the reaction to the prospect of a koran burning in afghanistan bad enough that the secretary of defense contacted the pastor in florida today. leaflets threatening american servicemen are distributed. we'll talk to the father of a serviceman who is stationed in the province and also more breaking news on this. we'll talk to a reporter who has spoken to the wife of the imam in the new york city park 51 center about what happened today and what may or may not happen tomorrow and saturday. meantime, the president already has a win. jonathan turley on the unfortunate ruling that rendition of alleged terrorism suspects is still court approved. his orchestra played a song by bighead todd and the monsters as i walked on stage. it got better after that. highlights ahead. and it's been mischaracterized as he said science has proved there's no god. his co-author will explain that all you need is gravity and quantum physics. can somebody get this to pastor jones in a hurry? think progress has spoken to the wife of imam abdul rauf in new york, daisy kahn, about a conversation she had or had earlier today with imam mohammed musri from orlando. he joins us now by phone. walk us through this. what did daisy tell you? >> hi, keith. i just got off the phone with daisy, i'll just read from my notes if you have a second. >> please. >> she said we have not agreed to anything other than meeting with the pastor at a future point down the road when cooler heads prevailed. she also said we reject any comparison to what we were prepared to build in new york and what the pastor was ready to destroy in florida. again, she said that she emphasized that the meeting was not planned for saturday but rather at a point in the future when people have had time to reflect on it. the last point she made was we do not want to take away from the solemn day of 9/11. that's why they don't want to meet on saturday. she said our center is not about 9/11. the koran is not about 9/11. we wish to commemorate 9/11 with prayers for the families of the victims. >> did the imam in orlando, did he call daisy khan with an offer basically? or how did this transpire? do you know the nature of the transaction supposedly involved here and how that happened? >> from what we understand imam musri in orlando called daisy in a bit of a panic saying i'm here talking to pastor jones and i want to give him something to try to negotiate this compromise. initially he said would you be willing to renegotiate the location of the center? she said no, of course not. and then he said, well, would you agree to meet with him? she said sure, we'll meet with anybody but we would like to meet with him down the road at some point. she was a bit surprised when imam musri and jones suggested they were going to come up almost immediately. >> so, are we getting a picture of this now that imam musri said i got you the meeting to discuss moving park 51 and i personally think it should be moved and that's what he said and pastor jones heard we've got a meeting to discuss when it's going to be moved? >> forgive me for my cynical take on this. i think pastor jones was trapped in a box. i think he felt like he had to back down after the call from secretary gates. the "ground zero mosque" was never an issue he was talking about. it was not on his radar and not the ostensible reason for burning the koran. i think in trying to get out of the box he was in, he tried to shift and do bait and switch and shift on to the mosque issue and so i think that's a little bit of at least a strategy of jones trying to put the onus back on imam rauf and say this is his issue, he has to deal with it when pastor jones was hijacking the nation with this ridiculous koran burning attempt. >> faiz shakir of think progress, recounting his conversation with the wife of the imam in new york, thanks for being with us on short notice. thank you. whether the florida pastor goes through with his pledge or not, the cliche of "fahrenheit 451" coming to life has already sparked anti-american protests. in our fourth story, those demonstrations most notably in afghanistan and already an attempt by insurgents there to capitalize on it with anti-american pamphlets. also, the state department has issued a travel alert to americans traveling abroad. in kabul, demonstrations and violence broke out today. hundreds of protesters burnt effigies and chanted death to america. nothing particularly unusual about that except for the timing. a cleric at a mosque in kabul said of the planned koran burning quote, it's an insult to the whole muslim world. sending a distracting message to the u.s. and all muslims. another protest is planned for money if the florida koran burning happens over the weekend. in another province of afghanistan, northeast of kabul, near bagram air base, 500 to 700 protesters attacked a security post but the afghan national police reportedly prevented the post from being overtaken. abc news is reporting that afghan insurgents are distributing anti-american leaflets to villagers in logar province, entitled "shocking news." according to an abc translation, it states this time these people have decided once again to insult our religion, our koran and our holy sites. an unnamed military officer telling abc "our assessment is that the insurgents here in logar, province afghanistan are seizing on the opportunity of the florida koran-burning story to rally a portion of the ambivalent population in our area to conduct attacks against our forces. the reality on the ground is this the koran burning event has the strong possibility of resulting in the injury or even death of coalition forces and possibly afghan civilians here in our area of operations as a result. as previously stated, the state department issued a worldwide travel alert for u.s. citizens due to the possibility of widespread anti-american demonstrations. let's turn to craig watson whose son, private parker watson, is now serving as a medic in afghanistan. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, keith. >> we just went through some of the reaction in afghanistan to the possibility of korans being burned in florida. are you personally concerned about the damage that's already been done and what that means for your son? >> yes, to a certain extent, yes. before we get started i would like to say go army. 173rd airborne. parker, we miss you. hope you're doing well. can i have the question again, keith? >> are you concerned about the risk perhaps that's been increased already no matter what happens or doesn't happen in florida over the weekend? >> like i said, to a certain extent, yes. the reason being, you know, my son is over in afghanistan fighting to defend this country and defend our freedoms and defend the constitution, and so this gentleman in florida that wants to burn the constitution -- i mean, burn the koran, you know, that's his choice under the first amendment. so we're kind of conflicted here. we're fighting to defend the constitution yet people are upset about his right to burn the constitution. kind of conflicted there. as a former police officer, i've operated under the concept of reasonableness and you know is this a reasonable thing at this time? no, i don't think so. >> has your son expressed to you either before this became an issue or since it's become an issue how fragile the sentiment is among afghans about americans? >> yes, as a matter of fact i was able to talk to him yesterday on the phone. he said the tensions are high in the region already due to provincial elections, and i explained to him what was going on over here in the united states, and he seemed to think that that would just be, you know, pouring gasoline on an already out of control fire. again, it's tough under the first amendment and this is this guy's right to do that. >> one of the possible protests that we mentioned in afghanistan scheduled for monday would apparently not go forward if the koran burning does not happen. is it your hope at this point that it's not too late to dispel some of the anger that the controversy has already generated? >> yeah. you know, i hope, like i mentioned earlier, our family, we've always acted out of reasonableness and i would hope that people can come to a reasonable terms on this matter. you know, whether you're liberal or conservative, you need to be reasonable. and i just hope that that's the way people go towards. >> craig watson, father of army private parker watson, great thanks for your time and the best to you and obviously to your son. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you, sir. >> rendition lives. first a brief sanity break. something like a sanity break. david letterman and me. are you a safe driver? yes. discount! do you own a home? yes. discount! are you going to buy online? yes! discount! isn't getting discounts great? yes! there's no discount for agreeing with me. yeah, i got carried away. happens to me all the time. helping you save money -- now, that's progressive. call or click today. why the dismissal of a lawsuit against an air carrier means rendition can continue. jonathan turley ahead. first the sanity report. speaking of a head, a big head, let's play "oddball." we begin at the ed sullivan theater. for the really big show. fun with jan brewer, julianna margolise. great band called the black angels blew the proverbial lid off the joint in between two old guys. ♪ >> beautiful. what was that? >> big head todd and the monsters. >> thank you very much. >> here we go. >> that's not nice. >> size 8. my mother to the day she died complained about it. >> you're a good looking man, my friend. don't worry about anything. >> the imam who is involved in the mosque came back from his tour on behalf of the request of the united states government to build hearts and minds and try to improve our relationships around the word and said, by the way, this wasn't mentioned a lot in the coverage of this thing but we're going to have separate prayer centers inside the facility for christians, jews, unitarians. i think he mentioned everything but the first church of the gooey death and atheists. not sure they should have a spot for atheists as well, prayer center for atheists. just complete the whole thing. there's also a culinary institute in this place. so we're going to have terror chefs obviously being trained. i know a few terror chefs. >> they work at the cbs commissary. >> yeah. >> thank you for bringing them over from nbc. >> and sarah palin, she -- >> how much do you want her to run? how much? >> it would be great for us speaking selfishly. >> are you thinking the same thing i am? >> i'm thinking she's not going to run is what i'm concerned about. who is it going to be? mitt romney? >> it's not cost effective. >> will it be mitt romney or somebody? >> could be. could be pawlenty. could be jeb bush. could be another bush. we haven't had enough of them. >> yeah. and i was talking to -- >> hey, it may be different this time. that's his campaign slogan. >> it may be different. >> it may be different this time. >> to the oakland alameda county coliseum where last night your oakland a's defeated the mariners, 4-3. the best play of the game came not on the field but in the stands. coco crisp, one of the best names in baseball, lines one over the wall. let's watch the replay of the effort by the fan. the only one in the stands. full extension. the ball rolls away and into the camera pit. the guy nearly did too. that would stop most fans but not him. got to get that $9 baseball, buddy. the human fly. he didn't secure it and it rolls back down. cameraman eventually gets him the ball and there was much rejoicing. he definitely gets an oakland a for effort. remember when the word rendition was reserved for the national anthem, and now jose feliciano's rendition of an anth anthem, the bad kind going. a former gitmo prisoner and four others say they were kidnapped and tortured by the cia. they sought to sue the company that helped the agency with logistics. the government invoked state secrets privileges. the case got thrown out by a federal appeals court. our third story, the bush administration's extraordinary rendition program goes unchecked yet again. johnathan turley will join us. the 6-5 ruling from the ninth circuit court of appeals. upholding the government's decision to invoke the state secrets doctrine. the majority determining the plaintiffs cannot sue a boeing subsidiary, jeppesen for the assistance they provided to the cia. the men claiming the company provided flight planning and logistical support services to government officials. the men were apprehended and transported to secret interrogation sites abroad where they claim they were beaten, starved, subjected to humiliation, degradation, physical and psychological torture by u.s. officials. the government is not disputing many of the key facts of the case including the torture. a spokesman telling the "los angeles times" the attorney general adopted a new policy last year to ensure the state secrets privilege is only used in cases where it is essential to protect national security, and we are pleased that the court recognized that the policy was used appropriately in this case. the majority reluctantly concluding that the national security interests trump quote, even the most compelling necessity to protect the fundamental principles of liberty and justice. five judges dissented, calling the decision premature and calling the government's torture a gross, notorious act of despotism. the bush administration invoked the state's secret privilege when the suit was first filed in 2007. the case was later reviewed by attorney general holder who endorsed the bush administration decision. the aclu arguing the case for the plaintiffs. attorney ben wisner noting if the physician is allowed to stand, the u.s. would have closed its courtroom doors to torture victims, adding to date not a single victim of the bush administration torture programs has had a day in court. joining us now, a constitutional law expert and law professor at george washington university. jonathan turley. john, good evening. >> hi, keith. >> you were the counsel on was has been cited as the leading state secrets case, area 51. now that this ninth circuit known as a liberal circuit ruled on this, what are the odds that the supreme court hears that and/or overturns it? >> the court has been avoiding this issue for years. they avoided it in the area 51 case that i had. the problem is that the entire privilege is based on a case called united states versus reynolds from 1953. that case was built on a demonstrable lie, that at the time, various families that were suing over b-52 crash in georgia, say the that the government was simply lying and hiding evidence by claiming national security. well, in the year 2000, those documents were, in fact, unsealed and declassified, and the families were right. the government did lie. they did use national security for purely tactical reasons. but the privilege continued. you had a privilege that was born in abuse and continues that form of abuse. and so what the supreme court will do is hard to say because they have avoided this issue for decades. they created what's become a corrosive and corrupting influence within our legal system. >> more than that though, is this not kind of a magical elixir for the executive branch, a president files whatever he wants to file under state secrets and that's the end of it? >> it is. this is more than a pass given to administrations. this is a virtual invitation by these judges. national security is a lot like gas in a closed space. if you expand the space, the gas expands to fill it. what they're saying here is that basically you have victims in plain view but they are invisible to our legal system. it makes a mockery of our legal system, but it invites abuse. in this case when attorney general holder says we made careful efforts to make sure it's not being overused, all the country cited in this claim of privilege, they actually released documents. these countries have actually acknowledged their role. the united states invoked privilege to shield this administration and past administration from embarrassment and admission that they are concealing a torture program. >> how would we know if this statement was true? we're pleased that the court recognized that the policy was used appropriately in this case, meaning state secrets policy. how would we ever know that? >> that's the problem. they've created a system that defies judicial review. you have five of these judges that heard this evidence in closed session and decided this was a mockery, it was actually despotism to make these arguments. what these cases often amount to is an act of collusion by courts. they tend to be very impressed by the secret sessions. but if you look at the record, it's ridiculous because the rendition program, the torture programs are so public that some of the parties like hayden, cheney are out there talking about it. but when victims try to get simple judicial review, when the court just says we couldn't possibly give you relief or review because that would disclose national security secrets. you know, if torture is a national security secret, it should be disclosed. >> constitutional law professor jonathan turley. john, always a pleasure. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you, keith. >> what if we use rendition to take pastor terry jones somewhere where he had to listen to dr. stephen hawking convince him it's irrelevant because science can prove no god is necessary to create a universe according to science. the hawking argument ahead and when rachel joins you at the top of the hour, the koch brothers are back at it, taking to a whole new level of astroturf. with their so-called jobs rallies. you go next if you had a hoveround power chair? 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why do we exist? hawking and mlodinow assert that when asking who or what created the universe, the answer god only serves to kick the can down the road because there is the other one, who or what created god. the authors believe the origin of universe can be explained scientifically. as recent advances suggest, the laws of gravity and quantum theory allow universes to appear spontaneously from nothing. spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something, it is not necessary to invoke god to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going. the book does not explicitly rule out the existence of god, but religious leaders are getting bent out of shape. rebuttals to the book have been issued and baroness susan greenfield a british scientist and member of the house of lords told the bbc "they can make whatever comments they like but when they assume rather in a taliban-like way that they have all the answers, then i do feel uncomfortable." joining me now, cal tech physicist, a co-author with stephen hawking, leonard mlodinow. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> the baroness has half apologized for comparison to taliban. neither of you are claiming to know everything, are you? >> well, if she half apologized i should half thank her for the apology. no, of course we're not claiming to know everything. the book is about, as you said, two main questions. where did the universe come from and why are the laws of nature what they are? we give scientific answers to those questions and we conclude that god isn't necessary for either of those. that's all we say. we don't pretend to prove that there's no god. we don't give mathematical proof there's no god. we don't say you shouldn't believe in god. that it's bad to believe in god. we don't even say that god didn't create the universe. we say that god is not necessary as an answer to those questions. if i might add, i think some of the histrionics around this such as the comments you quoted are counterproductive and poison the whole discussion. >> as they always do when they come from religious leaders whether it's about a movie or a book of science or about galileo's work but often it ends up with the work getting greater distribution than it would have had otherwise. let me play god's advocate to twist the old phrase. the laws of gravity and quantum theory are the cause of spontaneous creation of the universe, ultra-simplified version of the book, could not a god or a force of some sort have created the laws of gravity and quantum theory? >> well, keith, people have always looked around and asked themselves big questions and sometimes it seems to them to all of us that answers to these big questions could only be the work of some deity. for instance, people look at the human being and say this is such a magnificent creature, it could only be the work of god. darwin showed that wasn't true. science can explain that. we talked about two other issues. the creation of the universe and why laws of nature are what they are. it's a natural instinct to have that that could be the work of god. we show that science can answer those questions too. when we give those answers, science is based on laws. physics explain that. where do those laws come from? is that god? of course you can define god to be that way. whatever our answer is you can say but why and say that that's god. if people feel that they want to do that, that's fine. that's consistent with what we say. >> how is progress of cosmology going? is there a chance that we will ever know without doubt that it's correct or incorrect? >> physics isn't like mathematics. you don't prove things beyond doubt. using logic or reasoning or the laws of mathematics. physics is an observational science. when you have a theory, you gather evidence to either confirm the theory or disprove the theory. in the case of stephen's theories, the best place to look for that evidence is the cosmic microwave background, and satellites that was recently launched that we are analyzing that the cosmic background, the afterglow of the big bang and that has encoded in it how the universe began. from these sorts of observations we hope to find evidence supporting the theory or refuting a theory. and science goes on. and that's the march of science. and only after many observations that we have confidence in our theories. we don't claim to have the absolute answers in the way that religion does. >> last thing. 30 seconds f you have 30 seconds you can summarize it. the process of working with stephen hawking is like what? >> well, it was a lot of fun. he's obviously a brilliant man. he's a very stubborn man. he told me that his stubbornness is his great and worst quality. but i think in a scientist it's a great quality. quality and someone with his disability, it's a great quality. he has a great sense of humor. it was a lot of fun. it was intense. we took four years to work on the book. it was a great experience. >> congratulations on it. leonard, thank you again. that's september 9th. the 2,688th day since president
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