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He had a proud record to defend but the editor of Channel 4 News reiterated that the event was strictly for leaders only labor claimed that Boris Johnson was ducking scrutiny and the policy accused the conservatives of threatening channel full after reports that Tory party sources had raised the prospect if they were in power of reviewing the channel's public service broadcasting obligations conservative sources pointed out the license is up for review anyway before the end of the next parliament however Labor's Tom Watson said decisions on licensing were a matter for the independent regulator a former Conservative m.p. And culture minister Ed Vaizey told us it was not sensible for a government to threaten a broadcaster but he said the Tories had a legitimate complaint I do think the ice sculpture was perhaps a stunt too far it's perfectly legitimate for Channel 4 to have a debate with the leaders of the main parties because it is a free to say well we're not going to put our leader into that debate but I can see that Channel 4 is annoyed that the leader of the Concert For didn't take part in the debate so there's a sort of bit of wrong on both sides. The conservatives are promising that they will strengthen England's education watchdog Ofsted if they win the election and of criticized labor and the Liberal Democrats for saying they'd scrap the current system Boris Johnson is announcing plans for longer inspections and more funding Here's our education correspondent Lisa Hambly the conservatives want to increase the length of inspections in secondary schools and large primary schools from $2.00 to $3.00 days the additional day will be focused on behavior bullying an extracurricular activities and the party says it will pilot no notice inspections no idea it previously floated and then reject it the moment schools are notified the day before the conservatives have also restated plans to change the rules so schools rated as Outstanding will once again be subject to routine inspections last year of a was criticised by the National Audit Office which found that hundreds of schools mostly rated as outstanding had not been inspected for years the extra $10000000.00 pounds promised for office dead follows a decade in which his budget has been significantly cut while at the same time it's taken on additional responsibilities Labor and the Liberal Democrats argue that Ofsted needs to be replaced by a more effective body. Labor is setting out where it would spend money to create jobs in what it calls its green industrial revolution the party is launching a manifesto for each region of England with the promise of what it calls an investment blitz that will bring prosperity to every region while talking tackling climate change the shadow chancellor John McDonald set out some of the projects on this program we've got to remove out of point dependence on fossil fuel so that means alternative energy sources yeah massive investment in offshore and onshore wind but 9000 borings 100000 jobs massive investment in investment electric vehicles again which will hurt 195000 jobs will be protected and then and racial $32000.00 jobs created $3000000000.00 in solar solar power $20000.00 jobs the conservatives said the proposals were a distraction from Labour's failure to set out a plan for leaving the e.u. The Liberal Democrats are announcing plans to spend $1000000000.00 pounds a year to give police in England and Wales the pay rise and recruit $20000.00 more offices they say they want to restore community policing and argue that they're the only major party to commit the funding needed to increase officer numbers. The metropolitan police force is to pay the former m.p. Harvey Proctor half a $1000000.00 pounds in compensation because of its bungled investigation into false claims about a Westminster paedophile ring Mr Proctor whose home was raided by police will also be given 400000 pounds to go towards his legal cost his to lay at a Harvey Proctor was $1.00 of several prominent figures accused by Col beach of being members of a v.i.p. Paid of all ring in the seventy's and eighty's the former Conservative m.p. Says he lost his home and his job while he was under suspicion the Metropolitan Police was heavily criticized for its investigation by the former High Court judge so Richard Henriques in an independent review he reprimanded the force the believing beach for too long. Mr Potts is lawyers have now confirmed that he will save 500000 pounds in compensation and nearly 400000 in legal costs form Scotland Yard the force has apologized for its mistakes call beach is currently serving an 18 year prison sentence for that in the course of justice and food one of the U.K.'s big sit energy firms and power has announced plans to restructure the business unions have warned that many jobs could be lost and called it a body blow for workers doesn't it David has more details and power has been struggling for some time losing 261000 customers in the last quarter alone as a number of small supplies enter the market with a price cut by saying the energy supply is on track to make a loss in excess of 200000000 pounds because the u.k. Market particularly challenging and says it's embarking on a shakeup of its business in order to return to profitability the company which is German owned says it will release more details when staff have been briefed this morning it's thought 4500 jobs could be affected the trade union Unison said it would be a cruel blow for and power employees and has called for the big 6 suppliers to be taken into public ownership to avoid what it calls a collapse of the energy market a bit changing of the guard today at the European Council Donald Tusk will be replaced as president by the former prime minister of Belgian shell Michel as our Europe correspondent Kevin Conley reports the change is likely to signal a new attitude about BRICs at the president of the European Council acts as a kind of convenience for the heads of state and government forging consensus with difficult decisions Lou Donald Tusk has also used the post as a pulpit from which to rail against breaks it roughly equal amounts of sorrow and anger he once said that be a special place in hell for Briggs it is probably planned for breaks it and always seem to hope. It might be reversed the former Belgian prime minister Sharma Shelly's like to take a more sanguine approach like the French President Emanuel macro to whom he's close they want breaks it done to ease disruption and they intend to defend the e.u. Use interest vigorously in any negotiations that attitude will help to set the tone if they break that process moves on to talks on a trade agreement next year. Almost a quarter of young people are so dependent on their smartphones that it becomes like an addiction according to new research the study from King's College London suggests they become panicky or upset if they're denied constant access for the 1st time in more than a century a manuscript written by Elizabeth 1st has been discovered literary historian from the University of East Anglia found the paper in Lambeth Palace library and pieced together a series of clues to establish the queen herself was responsible for the translation of the Roman historian Tacitus arts correspondent Rebecca Jones reports once searching in the library for translations of Tacitus Dr John Mark file a found a mysterious $42.00 page manuscript he's damaged it was written on a very specific kind of paper used by the t 2 caught in the 5090s a further clue was the presence of 3 water marks which were also found on the paper Elizabeth the 1st used in her posts and correspondence but the clinching no argument was the handwriting the translation was copied by one of her secretaries but it's covered in corrections and additions which match the Queen's highway distinctive indeed rather messy hand talk to file a suggests Elizabeth the 1st might have been studying the text for guidance on how to rule Alternatively the translation could just have been a Hopi for a queen who enjoyed classical history. People who own drones weighing more than 250 grams have until the end of today to register them or risk a 1000 pound fine the Civil Aviation Authority says tens of thousands still haven't done so thank you the time is 10 past 8 people in court yesterday heard gasps of horror a relative shouted out some cried but the Hillsborough verdict was clear David Duncan feel the police chief had been in overall charge where 96 Liverpool football fans died at that match in April 1909 and afterwards was not guilty of gross negligence manslaughter there are still more court cases to come on other matters but this felt to many of the victim's relatives like a severe blow at the end of a terrible and lengthy process and of course a process that was found at an inquest that the fans had been unlawfully killed the lie that Liverpool fans are themselves been responsible for the tragedy has also been officially Aquash to Dr Dorothy Griffiths is the sister of one of the victims Vincent Fitz Simons I'm absolutely devastated and reeling really from the all and shocked that we've come to this stage that after 30 years no one is going to be held accountable for their death gesso $96.00 people I just I just cannot understand how this is come about did you expect that the verdict would go the other way yes I did I did expect the verdict to be to be hit for him to be found guilty and particularly of course because of what Mr Dockum field said and admitted during the inquest of course so we've now come to a state after 30 years 30 plus years of like 2 contradictory to contradict the verdict but of course a different standard of proof in a criminal trial from that of a civil inquest and you know in the end there's no way around that is that you know there isn't any way around it. And we can argue this till the cows come home I feel. So. Heavy though it is you know we have to move on and try to gain something positive from it. We can never bring our loved ones back the survivors can never lose the memories of that day but some think we have to move forward we have to move forward I think the something fundamentally and float in our legal framework I think but of course I'm coming from rates from an untrained legal person I'm coming from and as someone bereaved but I do feel now we have an opportunity for something good come out of the tragedy . And if I lend would that be well I would were in obviously going through a general election at the moment. And I would like to publicly call upon all parties all political parties to state publicly state whether they will implement the outcome of Bishop James's reports and ensure that the public accountability act is enshrined in our law before another tragic as and they so happens again 2 of the families yes what the bishop wanted was was more transparency more accountability and say in a range of institutions in the institutions that we trust that that's really the front of me that's. Really just and I really feel that that's what we've lost we've lost the trust in the system and to some accounts of some degree in our public services and they are there for the good of all the people and then as you said them should be open transparent and accountable only by implementing the recommendations can something coach a positive move you know good positive come from this and the families and the survivors feels right to somehow pick of the pieces of their lives because we've been living this since the day happened so that must never happen again to any of the family because otherwise this will just rest and. The effect on the families and survivors will will but it will be dreadful anyway but you know at least we can see something come from the from what happened that will help others in the future tragedies happen sadly at any time and the confect anybody Dorothy grievous thank you very much for talking to us and she mentioned the home of the ship of Liverpool right Reverend James Jones who chaired the Hillsborough Independent Panel he's been talking to us he said this. I understand the family's thrust ration and anger today but nothing detracts from the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report or from the seconded quest which concluded that each of those who died at Hillsborough was unlawfully killed I know that the government is determined to apply the lessons that have been learned from what the families of gone through over the last 30 years it's vital that the family's perspective is not lost. That was the right Reverend James Jones let's talk to Phil scraping his emeritus professor of law or Queen's University Belfast is a campaigner who led the Hillsborough Independent pounds research team and is on the line morning to you good morning when people talk about lessons and we heard about them from Dr criticism we've also just heard from from James Jones as well what in your view did what is the process by which those lessons are actually solidified into something that is real change I think we've got to understand what the impact of the delay has been and it is not only in Hillsborough work in the north of Ireland and of course the delays here in terms of cases going through from inquest right the way through to prosecutions can be as many as 40 years. Those who would have been charged had they still being alive is a problem that we faced in this case because there were those that were identified by the Hillsborough Independent Panel who had responsibility on the day who had since died there were also the other issue that we have to learn is that in making these long term inquiries the Independent Police Complaints Commission as was now independent office for police conduct recommended the 23 people be prosecuted and only 6 have come forward to that point one being dropped in the process but only one in terms of the events on the day and sadly that was David Duncan field Well this teaches us I think is what happens over the passage of time and the impact on cases of the passage of time. What we see during that period is the deaths of significant witnesses but also I think if you if you could put it no better no more bluntly then memory plays tricks with your memories a loss the hazy memories impacted by having read accounts in documentaries all of that but that then suggest doesn't and this is what are the graves of say that oh yes public institution public institutions that are accused of doing something wrong the vital thing perhaps the legally necessary thing becomes the things or investigate him a timely way that's absolutely crucial and is central to our legal system supposedly you know that cliche that justice delayed is justice denied is something that rings true in so many different cases what I think has to be really be taken seriously in this case and I I despair I think having worked on holes before 30 years is the fact that we could see all the way through there was a really strong case to be answered that case was never answered and the the what we have to also remember is that the inquest that came in with this verdict with the 2nd inquest the 1st inquest were badly flawed again that he addressed through law through one eye I think what we have to look at isn't just the process of how the law goes through the courts it has to look at we have to look at how these cases are investigated this case was investigated by the West Midlands police in that situation we have to go right back to the core of the strength of that investigation they initially recommended several people for prosecution that was dropped on the basis there was insufficient evidence to prosecute now when we on the panel went through the same material that they'd had at their disposal and they also could interview people who were alive at the time we couldn't we came to a completely different conclusion and that's what triggered that's what triggered the prosecution eventually and it brought the 2nd inquest if you want to just listening to you now. Around thinking about grand fall and the inquiry going on there and the possibility in the future of criminal proceedings I mean and it we go down the same path just then I think sadly to a certain extent we are I think that if you look at Cranfield and you look at the way in which it is being unpacked stage by stage what I'm concerned about is that those who are most affected as in Hillsborough those who are most affected by Hillsborough are their voices are being lost we're not looking back sufficiently quickly to the origins of what happened at Randall Similarly with Hillsborough we when we were on the panel it was essential for me not to just look at what happened on the day but to trace the history of how soccer was being policed what the state of the stadium was not just in the immediate context but in the long term context one of the things that's so important in all these cases is that we have to look at the long term context the immediate context of what happened on the day or in the surrounding days What then follows in terms of how the process is investigated that the issue of Hillsborough and I would that this cannot extend to run full surely is that we have the corruption and I mean that with the small see the corruption of investigations in other words those investigations are not sufficiently Thora or they come to it with the mindset the mindset around Hillsborough was it was the foul it was it was the fans and the survivors who were to blame in other words that the pressure was put on on those who died and their families but also on survivors and they still live with that they still live with that impact the final thing I want to say about that just leave you with yeah the extent of the dust we talk of the 96 I want to make it clear that over that time the deaths associated directly with Hillsborough cannot be estimated is far more than 96 those who have suffered premature death through physical illness and mental anguish professor feels great and thank you very much for don't do. It's just gone 20 past 8 the former m.p. Harvey Proctor has been awarded half a 1000000 pounds in compensation from the police after their bungled investigation into a v.a. V.i.p. Child paedophile ring he lost his job and his home partly because lease police at the time described the charges against him as credible and true he will also receive $400000.00 pounds in legal costs I only spoke to his lawyer Mark Stephens he said it was that police description of the charges was credible and true before they had been thoroughly investigated that was so damaging Well the police to receive these false allegations from Cole Beach who is now serving time for perjury and they had said that they were credible and true even though there were very many warning signs which said that they shouldn't have said that and indeed their practice now is not to say that and so they've been very heavily criticised and until now had refused really to accept responsibility for a lot and so many people and Harvey Proctor is the last person law you've But many people in court occluding Lord Britain and Lord Bramall had suffered with stains on their character during their lifetime and thankfully Harvey Proctor will be able to serve the rest of his life quietly with the benefit of no stain on his character as a result of this really large award of vindication in fact it's one of the larger awards ever made by the police and yet none of the police involved have faced prosecution or dismissal in this is that an injustice that remains unsatisfied. I think it is and I think that you know the officers involved should have been and should so I think there are real questions that really ought to be answered and the police should be looking at them but Mr Proctor has raised those even now they're being investigated by Northumbria Police would this have got more exposure viewed carried on and taken this to the High Court Robin settling in this way despite the large amount of money you got I think we would have gone more wrong and perhaps more condemnation of the police but this case was really about a vindication of Harvey Proctor which has been obtained it was also about the fact that the police should be all to their behaviors and they have so actually that would have just left it to be a case all about punishment and you know Harvey Proctor is not a young man his life was comprehensively damaged by this particular episode and I think it was fair to want him to have this award marks but also to allow him to move on with his life and to live the rest of it without will stain on his character which had been so heavily put there by the police until yesterday and the police's description of these original occasions as credible and true that was obviously clearly very important in the case and you say that that is not possible now what's changed. Well the police no longer have this practice of making a prejudgment of evidence and I think they're also more careful about how they investigate. Child abuse allegations That was Mark Stephens hardly proctors lawyer it wouldn't be a little earlier now it's 25 minutes past 8 the b.b.c. Will take its turn hosting an election debate tonight with a 7 way podium encounter in college if they'll be a mix of leaders and senior figures Rebecca long believe the business out of business sexually standing in for Jeremy pope Corbin Richie c. Neck the secretary to the Treasury will be standing in for the elusive Mr Johnson Our own Nick Robinson will be moderating the whole thing we thought we'd ask people from different walks of life to give him some advice they will hear from a shepherd s a broadcaster a head teacher and a referee I manage you know as international referee I think you need to have empathy it but you also need to be we need to be steered because if you like refereeing a rugby match very control of 30 huge players on that field but you need a bit of empathy years where to allow them to to express themselves but they need to know where when the line is my name's Amanda and I'm also known as the. My role as a chef is obviously to give a clear lead follow an update body language is everything just like a sheep dog that has a lot of our I never take yours off that fix them with a steely gaze but don't let them prove the wool over your eyes I'm not a boat or not I'm president. Of all moderates and one of the. Latest debates I mean it's a technical exercise it's not something I really question your journalistic skills or your knowledge your advice the traffic cop just making sure that everybody has. Every get away with an absolute top whole sport on Kathy people saying I am the head mistress of McKayla community school and when. London well Nick you have to stop them from offering on so when they do you need to poll is and stare at them over the top of your glasses with menacing intent remember that you can't throw troll at them any more so if they don't answer the question don't put up with it 1st get the warning 2nd time that tension so now you're throwing chalk Nic very helpful I'm sure but that seriously they want Wally's strategies to get them so on so if you ask a question they start going off on all the times and not asking the one you ask what do you do if you're not going to talk over them you joked about a big help lowers Rajit all doubt actually right next to league a stare over my glasses I wish really I'd got the detention of the teacher that said made all the red go out of the sports field in the whistle of the shepherd asked not to bridge the trench into the traffic gulp so I've been they'd all be very very helpful really it is worth saying as I didn't Bolton said that debates all great formats on t.v. Because they attract the sort of people who don't normally candidly listen to the Today programme or of the political help books but they are of course limited there's a limited role for the audience they pose the questions but they don't get to follow up in the way that they do on Question Time there's a limited role for me I and then to make sure the questions and said a good order is kept but I'm not there to be an interview and I think they're all right what they said You've got to have all thorough TB You got to have empathy the politicians have a job to do but to get that message across but also with always gazes in polls isn't stood notice you've got to sort of say don't talk over each other because it's infuriating but let me not talk as x. But I'm done it yet let's see if I can get away with it tonight is going to be the same without Johnson I'll call been there what you think the big issues dividing lines will be well it'll be the same because we're having Johnson and Co but you have to see these things as a package I understand why they're aroused at the moment about interviews and debates and people not that remember some perspective these. My 9th the election all the way through Thatcher Major Blair Brown we talked of having events like this and no one would ever agree the front runners always refused to do it now we're having a much better debate which is shouldn't they turn up for all of them why don't they do everything we want but the b.b.c. Would not only got head to head with got tonight 7 had debate we also had a question time in which Coburn and Johnson were there with sturgeon Swenson and we've got a huge debate now I don't see this is an adverse it's to say there's an awful lot of accountability going on do I as a journalist wish that there was more of it they did all the interviews we want they did a little bit of course I do but I'm on this I'm afraid I'm a much more a glass half full man than I am a glass half empty going to have to stop you there Nic thank you very much indeed good luck tonight loves better professional advice very generous with himself in fact. What does that mean that is largely vod Anyway let's pass it and that is far as they straight to Gary good morning down have morning to Spurs change their manager last week are Arsenal set to do the same they haven't won for 7 matches their worst run since 1992 and I am really on the brink is the headline most papers opt for this morning following a 21 home defeat by I'm tracking Frankfurt in the Europa League so is he about to lose his job a question for Henry Winter correspondent to The Times Well I think he is I think not simply because the fans have turned on you know Emery the fact that he seems to have lost a lot of the players but I think there was so many empty seats at the Emirates last night. For the game against and try Frankfurt and I think that the owner Stan Kroenke that's what concerns him most of the loss of revenue the fans turning on him as much as the results having said that Arsenal a normally very loyal with their managers are they well they are loyal they probably stayed on a little bit too long with the vendor for 5 years if you are some of the fans given the drift of the team. But I think now in the modern age that we're in social media with the pressure that's increasingly placed on clubs I think with the fans just turning actively against the owner Stan Kroenke it as they have been as well as with with Emery I think it's only a matter of time and if he does go could you see merits here Potter Cino moving there that would be unlikely wouldn't it I think it would be very unlikely although if you talk to Arsenal fans they have looked at what Josie Marine year has done going into Spurs and galvanizing them but I can't see them turning to a former Spurs manager in just simply can't go look at New know what will suit doing well pushing them forward up in the Premier League and in the euro police I'm sure they'll give the chance to Freddie Ljungberg who's the number 2 at the moment his caretaker and then it will be a question of do they want max Alegria or tet or Vieira Henry Winter thank you very much indeed my pleasure just to tidy up the Europa League situation for you Arsenal will actually still qualify and as they suffer a heavy defeat in their final group game Manchester United lost 21 to a stunner but they were through already through after a 33 draw with sporting branch a Celtic confirm top spot following a 31 victory over Rennes and Rangers will qualify as long as they don't lose their final game they drew 22 with fire and hold now lots of rain in Hamilton today so the Test match finished early with New Zealand 173 for 3 Simon Mann reports Tom latents fine unbeaten century for straighted England on a day in which 35 overs were lost to rain after tea England's decision to bowl was a logical one with the pitch expected to ease further and they had New Zealand 39 for 2 broad dismissed revolver 5 to a loose shot and works account of the key wicket of Williamson for 4 superbly caught by root at 1st slip but let them dug in with Taylor they added 116 before Taylor on 53 presented works for the 2nd wicket and a 3rd catch for root England might have had more late them correctly. Survived 2 l.b.w. Shouts and was dropped by Stokes on $66.00 Taylor was reprieved on $25.00 by the 3rd umpire there seemed insufficient evidence to overturn what looked a plumb l.b.w. Stoke struggling with a sore knee only bowled 2 overs England who left at Jack leaching gave a debut to Zack Crawley playing for other pace bowlers partially to make up the stakes his inability to bowl his full allocation t.m.s. Is on the radio this evening from 930 now after a 1st in the 2nd at 40 to one yesterday aerial Black Friday bargains maybe 150 Number 5 Glen force or 335 number 5 Captain Tommy thanks very much Gary let's hear who's joining Lorna Verne for this morning's Desert Island Discs this week I'm casting away the conservationist and writer Isabella tree she's a pioneer of rewilding if you come in the spring you are standing in a landscape that really looks more like the Serengeti because it's this extraordinary thorny scrub interspersed with water meadows wildflower meadows and then wandering throughout it all we've got Longhorn cattle acts more ponies Tamworth pigs and then the surround sound birdsong and insects is now so loud that you can literally feel it reverberate in your stomach Isabella tree my cast away do you Julius to hear her Desert Island Discs this morning at 9. I remember the Go Video aphorisms I'm in that came to mind when you were talking to Nick their own it was it's not enough to succeed friends must fail us are all wishing Nick very well because sailing now it's going to be a chilly day I'm talking about the weather now some sunshine there shallows towards the northeast frosty tonight you're listening today already for Justin Webb and Simon Jack and Carolyn Nichols has a summary of the news the broadcasting regulator Ofcom has received an official complaint about Channel 4 after it replaced Boris Johnson with an ice sculpture during a climate debate last night the party said Michael Gove to stand in for the prime minister but were told the debate was for party leaders 5 of him took part the back seat party's leader Nigel Farage was also replaced by melting ice sculpture one of the u.k. 6 biggest energy firms and power has announced plans to restructure the business its German and his Iams said the u.k. Market was particularly challenging unions have warned the move could lead to thousands of job losses along with course sent to closures the metropolitan police has been ordered to pay nearly 900000 pounds to a former Conservative m.p. Who was investigated following false claims about a v.i.p. Paedophile ring Proctor had his home raided as part of Operation Medland the European Council will have a new president from today when the former prime minister of Belgium shall Michel takes over from Donald Tusk the change is likely to bring a difference in attitude to breaks it of which Mr Turner has been a vocal opponent. Thank you it is 25 to 9 there is more clear water between the parties today with labor in the Liberal Democrats already saying they're committed to closing off stead least in its current form that's England's education watchdog the conservatives there today saying they would strengthen it separately of course there is quite a rug going on between the government and Channel 4 gammon Williamson the education secretary is on the line morning to you morning let's start with what you're suggesting for us that more money yeah we're looking at putting a shoe 10000000 pounds into Ofsted making sure that we strengthen it strengthen the quality of inspection quality of inspectors making sure that some of the largest school secondary schools and some of the largest primaries move to a 3 day inspection this is just to ensure that look a whole range of different things from discipline in p. Sports and enrichment activities schools doing which is an area that of number of people have raised with the offset haven't looked Tatton off in the past years and did you know on that do you regret that off Stead's budget has been cut so significantly in recent years where this is worry we're putting more money into office stead and while you can have a government that and what it is now you're putting a little bit back in we work very closely we have offset off said to an amazing job in terms of not just inspecting schools but my question was are you do you regret that have had a really significant according to the public accounts committee a fall it's a 52 percent in real terms between 2002070 and you saying that was a mistake no we're not saying there was a mistake we were dealing with an economic crisis that late the last Labor government created and we and I had to made Care worldwide economic if you know it was a it was 9 years ago but now Labor government is always tend to leave you with a big deficit and more in employment so we we've been dealing with that and what we're doing is we're recognizing we need to put more money into office that they do an incredible. Good job in terms of raising standards for children in schools working with teachers working with head teachers but they also to a very important job in terms of safeguarding making sure that local authorities children homes appropriate specked it and the issues that you have and the problem that you have with what Labor's and the Lib Dems are proposing you're going to have a 152 different inspection regimes by local account souls marking their own homework there's going to be no accountability in terms of children's homes or local authorities of what they're doing in terms of their children services so when most vulnerable children in society are going to be left with no one to watch their back and there is a concern. Let's turn to Channel 4. Days it always used to be a bricks question yes well there are now on a Channel 4 question we had from Ed Vaizey from a conservative culture that recalls Enron who've said there was wrong on both sides in this but he said specifically that he did not think it would be wise for the Conservative Party to get into the business of threatening Channel 4 and what might happen to them after the election is that or is that not what the Conservative Party is doing that no the Conservative Party isn't threatening Channel 4 we're raising a complaint we have off calm which I think is perfectly legitimate Young another Mr Vane's he said but it stops there there's no suggestion that you're going to look again at its public service broadcasting obligation no no suggestion at all it's good to see that it's odd because the conservative sources tell The Telegraph if where re-elected we'll have to review Channel 4 s public service brokers will be there to will saying that's just nuts men 2024 you've got to feed the review of chat channel for that's something that's been longstanding So whoever forms the next government is going to have that within their remit but that's not until 2024 we have a legitimate complaint because frankly you know they reduced for quality of the debate that's happened yesterday by refusing to let Michael go to go on a poet. Mission who is doing more in terms of environment invited to and it was a ladies debate but I mean I'm just interested in this this idea that Are you saying that you as a party at the moment are committed to Channel 4 existing in the same way as it does at the moment in the longer term future or is that up for review Well 2024 is a review of. Channel 4 there's no that's just what sets in legislation that says what is going to happen regardless of the issue that's been raised in terms of replacing a conservative representative and party representative in that debate with a nice chair it was a gimmick you know is a gimmick Channel 4 knows it was a gimmick they could have had a much better developing lot of people and lot of people I was going might say we want to get away from the guess what we want to know is where the Channel 4 can continue to exist in its current form and it has this strange that a hybrid existence doesn't but in its current form in the longer term future and you're saying yes what we're saying is we have an issue we have a debate yesterday you know what I'm talking about we're already seeing that with off coal and it is legitimate to be raising that with off com But that's for proper way to raise as an issue and that's for route we're taking down it down so that's simple as that and Channel 4 ways an important role See I say Greece is a moving man to say let's play is an important role in a lot of people feel it does play an important deal they're worried that this government if it is returned with the majority might alter its row and what I'm not hearing from you is a commitment to not altering it but the government has got no plans to you've seen our money fast we've got no plans in terms of changing what Channel 4 does we have an issue which we're going to raise with off calm and we hope that of calm to look at this very seriously and Channel 4 respond to it as well it was a gimmick. As to what they did is a shame that what they did it didn't actually add to the debate Michael would have been a real asset to have over on the show Gavin Williamson thank you very much 19 minutes to 9 the u.k. Is investing more money in Antarctica than at any time since the 1980 s. They'll be modernization of all the u.k. Research stations there as the new research ship the save an atom brought to enable world class Polar Science not to mention its robotic suburb ot Mike but face Dame Jane Francis is director of the British Antarctic Survey who spent 3 decades researching the white continent as it's known she's an expert on ancient climates Martha's been talking to her about the new investment but began by asking whether countries around the world were doing enough to cut greenhouse gases even over the last few years when I've been working in the polar regions and looking at all the records from around the world we can say that they climate change is accelerating and 8 years ago you know people suspected something was happening and we watched it happen relatively slowly but in the last few years you know carbon dioxide levels are increasingly rapidly changing and there is an escalation of change this is another aspect of change in Antarctica there's been an increase in tourism in recent years 20 new polar expedition vessels being built in addition to the 30 year old that already exist and also in increasing the number of private yachts What do you make of that well I think some tourists some well regulated Tori's tourism is not a it's not a bad thing I have been a lecture on a tour ship for one tour when somebody was there and this was a really good experience for me to understand the impact of Antarctica on tourists and I think that nearly everybody that got off the ship that I was on became an ambassador for Antarctica and people who wanted to preserve the environment so I think it can be a good thing but it does have to be well regulated and I think some of the crews to . At the moment his from the regulated cruise line is is well regulated they keep very strict rules and they protect the environment and they learn about the environment and they learn about what's happening in Antarctica so some of it is fine I think the threat may come from the individual tourists that are using Antarctica is a kind of the next big tourist playground and I do think that we have to be careful about where they go now your own work on Agent climates shows such a different world in Antarctica when we go back a 100000000 years to the age of the dinosaurs as you showed me as when we were back in Cambridge you know your headquarters Yes Antarctica was a very different place so in the rock record there are fossils of leaves of tree trunks of ancient plants that used to grow in Antarctica everybody thinks that once there were forests in Antarctica that musta meant the continent was over the equator but actually since about 100000000 years ago like you say the time of the dinosaurs the continent has been over the South Pole in the position that it is now but Forest Grew in Antarctica and we have all the remains of the forests and the fossils of the dinosaurs that lived in the forests so we've been able to reconstruct temperate forests that look very much like Tasmania only New Zealand today so if you walk through the forests in Tasmania imagine a dinosaur walking alongside you and you'd be in Antarctica about 100000000 years ago clearly the climate was globally much warmer then to allow forest to grow in and taught and we can estimate that carbon dioxide levels were much higher and that would have been a natural source of carbon dioxide from volcanic eruptions but the us can take care of that but but on a much slower and natural timescale than the rapid speed at which we are putting carbon dioxide in the atmosphere today here rather have been watching the new wharf being built. Immense engineering project is needed for your new research ship as the sedated after Have you any idea of when it will actually be in service down here I hope in the next year or 2 we of course we've got to finish this building the ship and then it has to be tested it will probably be tested in the ice in the Arctic where it's a bit closer to home. And then we'll take it to Antarctica to do really big science I mean it is going to be a ship with a lot of really new state of the our scientific equipment in it and we'll be able to do science that we've not done before and we'll be able to go to regions that are more remote and that we've not been able to go so we can really build up a really good detail picture of the systems operate in Iraq in and around Antarctica and how they're changing game Jane Francis from the British Antarctic Survey thank you for talking to us thank you but of course is not the time 14 minutes to 9 less than 2 weeks to go cause for the election we heard already from Nick this morning well he's also been speaking not just to us but to voters in different parts of the country to hear what people have been making of the campaign today his report comes from a head resting somewhere in Newport in South Wales he stopped off there on his way to Cardiff where as we've been hearing he is hosting tonight's t.v. Debate what would you like. To know top and skylights of a little my Hakko but I just sort of polish my head occasionally. Some talk politics in the pub some talk at the watercooler all of us over the weekly had to have come to shake hands so all in Newport to discover whether politics is on the agenda here or whether you get shouted down if you even mention the election my name space I do try to sort of keep my opinions to myself because a people are so emotional about it and I think yeah you port is a bit like that emotional debate. Most of the money it divides people is specks it and there's a lot of people are angry and upset about things you know what I hear I don't like . You were you angry. Yes I think I am angry this country needs to sort itself you know stop all this mess and just add it I really after this election I'll do that. Though. I wish you good do you. Know I don't think I've met you in your before I don't know cuz I come here a lot right yeah. So you gotta be careful I mean I've got friends that's. Sorted I'm very. Into what's going on I listen to everything I've got Parliament on one to John from 10 o'clock on the phone to 10 o'clock in the night honestly I missed all my favorite programs. For America for our day to day program you know John Humphrys discarded in this you and what's his name Jason just then yes I think we should have another go I think people know more now of the market you don't want to say people was stupid or anything they just weren't given the information. In my name is a shock to me schoolyard stuff there were so many 1000000 people that wanted to leave and they should respect that. Remain and I think that is to pay people for to take a bit more notice of what's actually going on I don't agree with I'm told I'm working class b. Working class all my life for 41 years so I'm 60 next week and I still Michael weeks an extra 6 years for my pension but does that make you jump to divert to Germany. If you give you the money back with ways you can get it from them and was going to pay for it in the end these are in your working class not the money's gone home we'll be learning about pharmacists when the bar is all. The time and if you watch him I mean it's not even willing to go on without him to me now for this interview at once I hold him back because he can't yesterday only abscess it goes into no details Jeremy Corbin wouldn't answer one question 9 times he was asked the other night on the t.v. And he refused to answer at the time we didn't watch that what did you read about it afterwards you know I read it by saying I'm there you speak straight they all conservative papers the mayor the express the Telegraph So you always are these sorts of arguments or is it only when they leave. We have a cup of coffee. Good afternoon Willy Salish temper market speaking whatever Dungy . Thank you yeah you just order his car you drive. You off and your politics here in the snow no. Talk politics when you don't call it that says a you know Governor at what pilots do you mean you know I don't have a policy and with the b.b.c. Years ago I always voted Liberal and I would say. Well if anything it would be liberal Let me. Barbara you want to me send a message to Mr Corbett Yes to do is talk but not punish. You know it is such a simple thing. You know telling me that Jeremy Colbert is scruffy or you because I thought. He's really a bit different with this hey you know which would you have voted for Mr Colbert I always been late but this year my husband and I had to come out to the common market 3 years ago and I think Paris is doing well this be the 1st time you've devoted to your. Yes Are you shocked to hear yourself say Oh. But what about all the other things Jeremy Goldman would say is all the money that he's going to put into public services the fact they're going to try and make things work better for pensions and for people of lower wages for working class people. In the balance . Definitely word to net that then you know Rico look at things straight up and we might. Already do it here it is mix in a kind of his. Color it looks like he's mixed and she's going to talk to. This is a 10 hour a short amount of get your name your team really to to politics announced no I don't have to say I don't know what is ahead I'm all right I don't listen to it as everyone else. I don't know anyone who follows a pattern these you know win the election he's got to have a clue. He's got some work to do I was doing. Stuff that. It is 8 minutes to know I'm a regular update now from reality checks correspondent Chris Morris and stay Chris this is more like the record breakers than reality check today how many trees can he plant per minute what's the world record. Yeah well all the parties have got ambitious targets on this Labor's out front on this issue talking about planting 2000000000 trees by 2040 and yes there's been some skepticism that's hundreds of thousands of trees a day which might sound a bit nuts to you and me but it is actually possible I mean to put it into perspective the committee on climate change that's to the statutory body that advises the government says we need to plant one and a half 1000000000 trees by 2050 to help meet our legally binding target of net 0 carbon emissions So Labor's promising a bit more than that this is what John McDonald said earlier on the program the thing that people been raising this time in China. Again a massive tree planting program with talk about we're talking about you know we're talking about a 1000000000 new trees very 2000000000 I thought it was well it was 2000000000 a 1000000000 Not until they're trying to 30 then truly believe you're conservative Well it doesn't no that's one of the suggested new law if you know but in Ethiopia your mother for you know Ethiopia this sounds fantastic Bruce true they planted 300000000 in one day did they really I mean I guess the broader point is that a vast number of trees were planted in one day in Ethiopia and millions of people took part in the Countrywide effort but for example the head of one government linked organization told the b.b.c. Back in August they'd been ordered to plant 10000 of those trees that they had to pay for them so they planted 5000 instead but reported the full amount so I think a bit of skepticism is in order about exact numbers when they are big but it shouldn't deflect from the fact that mass tree planting can be done and is being done around the world but still the other reality to be checked here is that it isn't a massive challenge for the u.k. To get to net 0 whether it's 203-020-4520 extension 50 from where we are now and there's some very bold targets being set in the selection. Yeah I mean the tree planting targets at the moment within the u.k. Only Scotland is really doing very well in tree planting it's an s.n.p. Priority and last year Scotland was responsible for more than 80 percent of all the trees planted in the u.k. Overall the Countrywide figure last year was actually pretty low but go back to the late 1980 s. And it was more than double current figures about 30000 hectares have been planted every year which equates to roughly 50 or 60000000 trees still not as money as Labor would need to plant but you know experts can plant saplings incredibly quickly some companies are starting to use drones to do it even more quickly so in a way it's really about logistics have you got enough stock to plant such huge numbers day by day year by year are you providing the right incentives to landowners to provide the space to tree planting and total tree cover in the u.k. Is far lower than in many European countries so of course in the end like many things is the political will really there to push it all through us Morris Many thanks for the time 5 to 9 when a woman speaks out about rape you expect that she says she was devastated by it if it happened to her most women in most circumstances are of course but when Debbie Harry spoke recently about her being raped affected her less than losing her guitar it led to some criticism of her and also some support from women who said she and others should be free to say what they wanted and what they actually thought Tanya seriously is here is lecture and criminology at Birkbeck College at the University of London and author of speaking out feminism rape in narrative politics and Sarah Green's on the line is director of The End Violence Against Women coalition morning to both Tanya 1st of all what did you think of what Debbie Harry said Well I think that. It's completely understandable you know and it's a completely did legitimate response to an experience of sexual violence and I think what was interesting is this reaction and we need to remember the history of speaking out and that when women came together in the 1960 s. In the 1970 s. And talked to each other about their experiences what they realized was that the Homme of rape just wasn't recognized you know women told stories about going to police stations and being told oh well you know you should feel lucky because that's the only way anyone is going to want to sleep with you you know or you know didn't you have fun didn't you enjoy it completely dismissed and they talked about families friends doing exactly the same thing and what feminists did in response was women spoke about the trauma the high of rape and use those stories politically which is what I research in order to have society the law of popular culture recognized that sexual violence is actually a harmful and damaging do you saying that now that it has been recognised that it is widely and properly recognised then the freedom to say whatever you want about how it affects you personally should just be that well I think what I would say is that it's probably a little bit of to mistake to say that it has been widely recognised but what we've seen is a real kind of focus on women and their narratives on how they act and that if they don't tell the proper story and act in the proper way then they get a negative reaction it's not just people like Debbie Harris we've seen it with kind of recent scandals around the c.p.s. And the players looking at women station media Sarah Green what do you think. Exactly I think what Tony is coming to we are with a situation where the accepted or acceptable view of a rape survivor is that she really needs to present quite hall and or quite broken or she needs to tell her story in a way that is very emotional and so on and we find decision makers throughout the justice process from police investigators true too. Those making prosecution decisions and perhaps juries all tending to turn on you don't you're not really presenting like somebody who's been hurt hurts and harmed and therefore you're less hard so in that in those terms than Sarah does do what how does Debbie Harry's How does what Debbie Harry said. Have an impact on that well I think it's really striking because it's making us talk about it and that's actually a really good thing what we don't need of course is kind of them to switch to an alternative narrative of kind of heroic resilience as if there are those who are really harmed and damaged or something and then those who heroically yes yes yes says you know it's a management to judge or it's just an attorney and not a matter then of criticizing it but it's also not a matter of praising her for what she has said well actually neither No I think the question is do we recognize sexual violence is inherently harmful or do we say women have to do a certain thing and act a certain when she wasn't saying she wasn't heartless He wasn't she never said that at all and I mean even we think that women have a right and all people have a right to sexual autonomy to not have to know their sexual consent ignored or violated and then how whether they respond doesn't diminish the harm of that shouldn't diminish the way that we react and the problem is that even though we have moved forward in terms of sexual violence we continue to focus so much on women and whether they're deserving undeserving and whether they do the right thing rather than actually just accepting that this is a well as a subject we should certainly come back to but for the time being Sarah Green from the end violence against women coalition and turn your series here as well from Bowker College University of London thank you both that's all from us our editors were Tom's mother and Rebecca Keating have a very good morning. B.b.c. News at 9 o'clock the energy firm n power has announced plans to restructure its u.k. Business which is expected to lead to the loss of more than 4000 jobs the company which is German and has been struggling for some time and described the u.k. Market as particularly challenging unison said the move was a cruel blow for n. Power workers just weeks before Christmas the sister of one of the 96 people killed in the hills pre-state in disaster 30 years ago has called for all political parties to adopt the findings of a report calling on public bodies to be more transparent and accountable to extort the Griffiths said the conclusions of the report into the disaster written by Bishop James should be heeded to prevent another tragedy she was speaking after a jury cleared the match Commander David Duncan failed of gross negligence manslaughter Professor Fels crashin who led the Hillsborough Independent Panel's research team told today he was worried that lessons hadn't been learned for the inquiry into the Granville fire if you look at Grenfell and you look at the way in which it is being unpacked stage by stage what I'm concerned about is that those who are most affected as in Hillsborough those who are most affected by Hillsborough are their voices are being lost we're not looking back sufficiently quickly to the origins of what happened at Randall the Conservative Party has lodged a complaint with the broadcasting regulator Ofcom after Channel 4 replaced Boris Johnson with an ice sculpture during a climate change debate last night Michael Gove was sent to stand in for the prime minister but the broadcaster said the invitation was a party leaders only. The European Council has a new president with the former prime minister of Belgium shall Michel taking over from Donald Tusk the change is likely to bring a ship.
Radio-programConservative-party-uk-mpsViolence-against-womenTreesMembers-of-the-united-kingdom-parliament-for-english-constituenciesLaw-enforcementSculpture-techniquesPolitical-scienceCriminologyHeads-of-governmentBbc-radio-4-programmesGender-based-violence And said decisions on licensing were a matter for the independent regulator a former Conservative m.p. And Culture Minister advisee told us it was not sensible for a government to threaten a broadcaster but he said the Tories had a legitimate complaint I do think the ice sculpture was perhaps a stunt too far it's perfectly legitimate for Channel 4 to have a debate with the leaders of the main parties because searchers are free to say well we're not going to put our leader into that debate but I can see that Channel 4 is annoyed that the leader of the concert part didn't take part in the debate so there's a sort of bit of wrong on both sides the conservatives are promising that they will strengthen England's education watchdog off stead if they win the election and of criticized labor and the Liberal Democrats for saying they'd scrap the current system Boris Johnson is announcing plans for longer inspections and more funding Here's our education correspondent Lisa Hambly the conservatives want to increase the length of inspections in secondary schools and large primary schools from $2.00 to $3.00 days the additional day will be focused on behavior bullying an extracurricular activities and the party says it will pilot no notice inspections no idea it previously floated and then rejected the moment schools and notified the day before the conservatives have also restated plans to change the rules so schools rated as Outstanding will once again be subject to routine inspections last year of state was criticised by the National Audit Office which found that hundreds of schools mostly rated as outstanding had not been inspected for years the extra $10000000.00 pounds promised for office dead follows a decade in which his budget has been significantly cut while at the same time it's taken on additional responsibilities Labor and the Liberal Democrats argue that Ofsted needs to be replaced by a more effective body. Labor is setting out where it would spend money to create jobs in what it calls its green industrial revolution the party is launching a manifesto for each region of England with the promise of what it calls an investment blitz that will bring prosperity to every region while talking tackling climate change the shadow chancellor John McDonald set out some of the projects on this program we've got to remove out of point dependence on fossil fuel so that means alternative energy sources yeah massive investment in offshore and onshore wind which will write 9000 turbines 100000 jobs massive investment in investment electric vehicles again which will hurt 195000 jobs will be protected and then and racial 32000 jobs created 3000000000 solar shoulder power 20000 jobs the conservatives said the proposals were a distraction from Labour's failure to set out a plan for leaving the e.u. The Liberal Democrats are announcing plans to spend 1000000000 pounds a year to give police in England and Wales a payroll and recruit 20000 more offices they say they want to restore community policing and argue that they're the only major party to commit the funding needed to increase officer numbers the metropolitan police force is to pay the former m.p. Harvey Proctor half a $1000000.00 pounds in compensation because of its bungled investigation into false claims about a Westminster paedophile ring Mr Proctor whose home was raided by police will also be given 400000 pounds to go towards his legal cost his to lay as a hobby Proctor was $1.00 of several prominent figures accused by copy of being members of a v.i.p. Peta following in the seventy's and eighty's the former Conservative m.p. Says he lost his home and his job while he was under suspicion. The Metropolitan Police was heavily criticized for its investigation by the former High Court judge separate should have raked has in an independent review he reprimanded the force the believing bait for too long Mr Parks his lawyers have now confirmed that he will save 500000 pounds in compensation and nearly 400000 in legal costs from Scotland Yard the force has apologized for its mistakes call beach is currently serving an 18 year prison sentence for that in the course of justice and food one of the U.K.'s big sit energy firms and power has announced plans to restructure the business unions have warned that many jobs could be lost and called it a body blow for workers doesn't it David has more details and power has been struggling for some time losing 261000 customers in the last quarter alone as a number of small supplies enter the market with the price cap biting the energy supply is on track to make a loss in excess of 200000000 pounds because the u.k. Market particularly challenging and says it's embarking on a shakeup of its business in order to return to profitability the company which is German owned says it will release more details when staff have been briefed this morning it's thought $4500.00 jobs could be affected the trade union Unison said it would be a cruel blow for and power employees and has called for the big 6 suppliers to be taken into public ownership to avoid what it calls a collapse of the energy market a bit changing of the guard today at the European Council Donald Tusk will be replaced as president by the former prime minister of Belgian shell Michel as our Europe correspondent Kevin Conley reports the change is likely to signal a new attitude about BRICs set for the president of the European Council acts as a kind of convening for the heads of state and government forging consensus with difficult decisions. Because. So use the post as a pulpit from which to rail against breaks it in roughly equal amounts of sorrow and anger he once said there'd be a special place in hell for Briggs it is who had and probably planned for breaks it and always seem to hope it might be reversed the former Belgian prime minister Sharma Shelly's like to take a more sanguine approach like the French President Emanuel macro to whom he's close they want Briggs it done to ease disruption and they intend to defend the e use interest vigorously in any negotiations that attitude will help to set the tone if the break that process moves on the talks on a trade agreement next year almost a quarter of young people are so dependent on their smartphones that it becomes like an addiction according to new research the study from King's College London suggests they become panicky or upset if they're denied constant access. For the 1st time in more than a century a manuscript written by Elizabeth 1st has been discovered the literary historian from the University of East Anglia found the paper in Lambeth Palace library and piece together a series of clues to establish the queen herself was responsible for the translation of the Roman historian Tacitus arts correspondent Rebecca Jones reports one searching in the library for translations of Tacitus Dr John Mark file a found a mysterious 42 page manuscript he's damaged it was written on a very specific kind of paper used by the cheater court in the 5090s a further clue was the presence of 3 water marks which are also found on the paper Elizabeth the 1st used in her posts and all correspondence but the clinching argument was the handwriting the translation was copied by one of her secretaries but it's covered in corrections and additions which match the Queen's highway distinctive indeed rather messy hand Dr Filer's suggests Elizabeth the 1st might have been studying the text for guidance on how to rule Alternatively the translation could just have been a Hopi for a queen who enjoyed classical history. People who own drones weighing more than 250 grams have until the end of today to register them or risk a 1000 pound fine the Civil Aviation Authority says tens of thousands still haven't done so thank you the time is 10 past 8 people in court yesterday heard gasps of horror a relative shouted out some cried but the Hillsborough verdict was clear David Duncan feel the police chief had been in overall charge where 96 Liverpool football fans died at that match in April 1909 and afterwards was not guilty of gross negligence manslaughter there are still more court cases to come on other matters but this felt to many of the victim's relatives like a severe blow at the end of a terrible and lengthy process and of course a process that was found at an inquest that the fans had been unlawfully killed the lie that Liverpool fans are themselves been responsible for the tragedy has also been officially Aquash to Dr Dorothy Griffiths is the sister of one of the victims Vincent Fitz Simons I'm absolutely devastated and reeling really from the all and shocked that we've come to this stage that after 30 years no one is going to be held accountable for their death gesso $96.00 people I just I just cannot understand how this is come about did you expect that the verdict would go the other way yes I did I did expect the verdict to be to be hit for him to be found guilty and particularly of course because of what Mr Dockum field said and admitted during the inquest of course. So we've now come to a state after 30 years 30 plus years of like 2 contradictory to contradict the verdict but of course a different standard of proof in a criminal trial from that of a civil inquest and you know in the end there's no way around that is that you know there isn't any way around it. And we can argue this till the cows come home I feel. So. Heavy though it is you know we have to move on and try to gain something positive from it. We can never bring our loved ones back the survivors can never lose the memories of that day but some think we have to move forward we have to move forward. I think the something fundamentally and float in our legal framework I think but of course I'm coming from rates from an untrained legal person I'm coming from and as someone bereaved but I do feel now we have an opportunity for something good come out of the tragedy . And if I let that be well I would were in obviously going through a general election at the moment. And I would like to publicly call upon all parties all political parties. To state to publicly state whether they will implement the outcome of Bishop James's reports and ensure that the public accountability act is enshrined in our law before another tragedy or Kaz and this so happens again 2 of the families yes I want what the bishop wanted was was more transparency more accountability and say in a range of institutions in the institutions that we trust that that's really the front of me that's. Really just and I really feel that that's what we've lost we've lost the trust in the system and to some account some degree in our public services and they are there for the good that we're all the people and then as you said them should be open transparent and accountable only by implementing the recommendations can something could be a positive move you know good positive culture in this and they found ways in the survivors feels rare to somehow pick up the pieces of their lives because we've been living this since the day happened so that must never happen again to any of the family because otherwise this will just rest and. They effect on the families and survivors will will it will be dreadful anyway but you know at least we can see something come from the from what happened that will help others in the future tragedies happen sadly at any time and the confect anybody Dorothy Greivis thank you very much for talking to us and she mentioned the form of the ship of Liverpool right Reverend James Jones who chaired the Hillsborough Independent Panel he's been talking to us he said this. I understand the family's frustration and anger today but nothing detracts from the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report or from the seconded quest which concluded that each of those who died at Hillsborough was unlawfully killed I know that the government is determined to apply the lessons that have been learned from what the families of gone through over the last 30 years it's vital that the family's perspective is not lost that was the right Reverend James Jones let's talk to Phil scraping his emeritus professor of law or Queen's University Belfast is a campaigner who who led the Hillsborough Independent pounds research team and is on the line morning to you good morning when people talk about lessons and we heard about them from Dr criticism we've also just heard from from James Jones as well what in your view did what is the process by which those lessons are actually solidified into something that is real change. I think we've got to understand what the impact of the delay has been and it is not only in Hillsborough I work in the north of Ireland and of course the delays here in terms of cases going through from inquest right the way through to prosecutions can be as many as 40 years. Those who would have been charged had they still being alive is a problem that we faced in this case because there were those that were identified by the Hillsborough Independent Panel who had responsibility on the day who had since died there were also the other issue that we have to learn is that in making these long time inquiries the Independent Police Complaints Commission as was now independent office for police conduct recommended the 23 people be prosecuted and only 6 have come forward to that point one being dropped in the process but only one in terms of the events on the day and sadly that was David Duncan field Well this teaches us I think is what happens over the passage of time and the impact on cases of that passage of time what we see during that period is the deaths of significant witnesses but also I think if you if you could put it no better no more bluntly then memory plays tricks with your memories a loss the hazy memories impacted by having read accounts in documentaries all of that but that then suggest doesn't and this is what the dark the groves of say that public institution public institutions that are accused of doing something wrong their vital thing perhaps the legally necessary thing becomes the things or investigate him a timely way that's absolutely crucial and is central to our legal system supposedly you know that cliche that justice delayed is justice denied is something that rings true in so many different cases what I think has to be really be taken seriously in this case and I I despair. I think having worked on heels before 30 years is the fact that we could see all the way through there was a really strong case to be answered that case was never answered and the the what we have to also remember is that the inquest that came in with this verdict with the 2nd inquest the 1st inquest were badly flawed again that he addressed through law through one eye I think what we have to look at isn't just the process of how the law goes through the courts it has to look at we have to look at how these cases are investigated this case was investigated by the West Midlands police in that situation we have to go right back to the core of the strength of that investigation they initially recommended several people for prosecution that was dropped on the basis there was insufficient evidence to prosecute now when we on the panel went through the same material that they'd had at their disposal and they also good interview people who were alive at the time we couldn't we came to a completely different conclusion and that's what triggered that's what triggered the prosecution eventually and it brought the 2nd inquest if you want to just listening to you now and thinking about grand fall and the inquiry going on there and the possibility in the future of criminal proceedings I mean it we go down the same path just and I think sadly to a certain extent we are I think that if you look at Grenfell and you look at the way in which it is being unpacked stage by stage what I'm concerned about is that those who are most affected as in Hillsborough those who are most affected by Hillsborough are their voices are being lost we're not looking back sufficiently quickly to the origins of what happened at Granville Similarly with Hillsborough we when we were on the panel it was essential for me not to just look at what happened on the day but to trace the history of how soccer was being policed what the state of the stadium was not just in the immediate Cond. But in the long term context one of the things that's so important in all these cases is that we have to look at the long term context the immediate context of what happened on the day or in the surrounding days What then follows in terms of how the process is investigated that the issue of Hillsborough and I would that this cannot extend to run full surely is that we have the corruption and I mean that with the small c The corruption of investigations in other words those investigations are not sufficiently Thora or they come to it with a mindset the mindset around Hillsborough was it was the foul it was it was the fans and the survivors who were to blame in other words the pressure was put on on those who died and their families but also on survivors and they still live with that they still live with that impact the final thing I want to say about that just leave you with yeah the extent of the dust we talk of the 96 I want to make it clear that over that time the deaths associated directly with Hillsborough cannot be estimated is far more than 96 those who have suffered premature death through physical illness and mental anguish professor feels great and thank you very much for talking to us it's just gone 20 past 8 the former m.p. Harvey Proctor has been awarded half a 1000000 pounds in compensation from the police after their bungled investigation into a v.a. V.i.p. Child paedophile ring he lost his job and his home partly because lease police at the time described the charges against him as credible and true he would also receive $400000.00 pounds in legal costs I only spoke to his lawyer Mark Stephens he said it was that police description of the charges is credible and true before they had been thoroughly investigated that was they damaging Well the police that received these false allegations Cole beach is now serving time for perjury. They had said that they were credible. And true even though there were very many warning signs which said that they shouldn't have said that and indeed their practice now is not to say that and so they've been very heavily criticized and until now had refused really to accept responsibility for it and so many people and Javi propter is the last person to live but many people in court occluding Lord Britain and Lord all had suffered with stains on their character during their lifetime and thankfully the proctor will be able to serve the rest of his life quietly with the benefit of no stain on his character as a result of this really large award of vindication in fact it's one of the larger awards ever made by the police. And yet none of the police involved have faced prosecution or dismissal in this is that an injustice that remains unsatisfied. I think it is and I think that you know the officers involved should have been and should so I think there are real questions that really ought to be answered and the police should be looking at them but Mr Proctor has raised those even now they're being investigated by Northumbria Police would this have got more exposure viewed carried on and taken this to the high court rather than settling in this way despite the large amount of money you got I think we would have gone more wrong and perhaps more condemnation of the police but this case was really about a vindication of Harvey Proctor which has been obtained it was also about the fact that the police should be alter their behaviors and they have so actually that would have just left it to be a case all about punishment and you know Harvey Proctor is not a young man is life was comprehensively damaged by this particular episode and I think it was fair to want him to have this award marks but also to allow him to move on with his life and to live the rest of it without will stain on his character which had been so heavily put there by the police until yesterday and the police's description of these original occasions as credible and true that was obviously clearly very important in the case and you say that that is not possible now what's changed. Well the police no longer have this practice of making the pre-judgments of evidence and I think they're also more careful about how they investigate. Child abuse allegations That was Mark Stephens hardly proctors lawyer it wouldn't be a little earlier now it's 25 minutes past 8 the b.b.c. Will take its turn hosting an election debate tonight with a 7 way podium encounter in college if they'll be a mix of leaders and senior figures Rebecca long the business out of business sexually standing in for Jeremy pope Corbin Richie c. Neck the secretary to the Treasury will be standing in for the elusive Mr Johnson Our own Nick Robinson will be moderating the whole thing we thought we'd ask people from different walks of life to give him some advice they will hear from a shepherd s a broadcaster a head teacher and a referee I manage you know as international referee I think you need to have empathy it but you also need to be we need to be steered because if you like refereeing a rugby match very control of 30 huge players on that field but you need a bit of empathy years where to allow them to to express themselves but they need to know where when the line is my name's Amanda I'm also known as the. My role as a chef is obviously to give a clear lead follow an update body language is everything just like a sheep dog that has a lot of our I never take yours off them with a steely gaze but don't let him pull the wool over your eyes I'm not a boat or non-consent. Moderating one of the. Latest debates I mean it's a technical exercise it's not something really testing your journalistic skills or your knowledge your office the traffic cop just like show that everybody has. Every get away with an absolute top goalscorer I'm Catherine was saying I am the head mistress of McKayla community school and when. In London well Nick you have to stop them from offering on so when they do you need to pause and stare at them over the top of your glasses with menacing intent remember that you can't throw truck at them anymore so if they don't answer the question don't put up with it 1st give them a warning 2nd time detention. So why are you throwing chalk Nick very helpful I'm sure but that seriously they want Wally's strategies to get them so on so if you ask a question they start going off on all the time to not asking the one you ask what do you do if you're not going to talk over them you joked about it Will you help lower the old out actually right next to a stair over the glass is always really I've got the detention of the teacher that said made all the red go out of the sports field in the whistle of the shepherd as not to bridge the trench into the traffic gulp so I've been they'd all be very very helpful really it is worth saying is Adam Bolton said that debates all great formats on t.v. Because they attract the sort of people who don't normally candidly listen to the Today programme or of the political help books but they are of course limited there's a limited role for the audience they pose the questions but they don't get to follow up in the way that they do on Question Time there's a limited role for me I and then to make sure the questions and said Good older is kept but I'm not there to be an interview and I think they're all right what they said You've got to have all thorough TB You got to have empathy the politicians have a job to do but to get that message across but also with all those gazes and polls isn't stood notice you've got to sort of say don't talk over each other because it's infuriating but let me not talk as x. But I'm done it yet let's see if I can get away with it tonight is going to be the same without Johnson I'll call been there what do you think the big issues dividing lines will be well it'll be the same because we're having Johnson and Co but you have to see these things as a package I understand why they're aroused at the moment about interviews and debates and people not that I remember some perspective this is my 9th the election all the way through Thatcher Major Blair Brown we talked of having events like this and no one would ever agree the 1st run has always refused to do it now we're having a much better debate which is shouldn't they turn up for all of them why don't they do everything we won't but the b.b.c. Would not only go ahead to it we've got to donate 7 had debate we also had a question to. I'm in which Corbin and Johnson were there with sturgeon Swenson and we've got a huge debate now I don't see this is an adverse it's to say there's an awful lot of accountability going on do I as a journalist wish that there was more of it they did all the interviews we want they did a little bit of course I do but I'm on this I'm afraid I'm a much more a glass half full man than I am a glass half empty going to have to stop you there Nic thank you very much indeed good luck tonight loves better professional advice very generous with himself in fact. What does that mean. Vodka Anyway let's pass it and that is Father's Day straight to Gary good morning dad have morning to you Spurs change their manager last week our arsenal set to do the same they haven't won for 7 matches their worst run since 1992 and I am really on the brink is the headline most papers opt for this morning following a 21 home defeat by I'm tracking Frankfurt in the Europa League so is he about to lose his job a question for Henry Winter correspondent to The Times Well I think he is I think not simply because the fans have turned on you know Emery the fact that he seems to have lost a lot of the players but I think there were so many empty seats at the Emirates last night. For the game against one try Frankfurt's And I think that the owner Stan Kroenke that's what concerns him most of the loss of revenue the fans turning on him as much as the results having said that Arsenal a normally very loyal with their managers are they well they are loyal they probably stayed on a little bit too long with the vendor for 5 years if you are some of the fans given the drift of the team but I think now in the modern age that we're in social media with the pressure that's increasingly placed on clubs I think with the fans just turning actively against the owner Stan Kroenke it as they have been as well as with with Emery I think it's only a matter of time and if he does go could you see Richie Opata Cino moving there that would be unlikely wouldn't it I think it would be very on. Likely although if you talk to Arsenal fans they have looked at what Joe's a Marine year has done going into Spurs and galvanizing them but I can't see them turning to a former Spurs manager in party tonight you simply can't go look at New know what will suit doing well pushing them forward up in the Premier League and in the euro police I'm sure they'll give the chance to Freddie Ljungberg who's the number 2 at the moment his caretaker and then it will be a question of do they want max Alegria or tet or Vieira Henry Winter thank you very much indeed my pleasure just to tidy up the Europa League situation for you Arsenal will actually still qualify unless they suffer a heavy defeat in their final group game Manchester United lost $21.00 to a stunner but they were through already through after a $33.00 draw with sporting branch a Celtic confirm top spot following a 31 victory over Rennes and Rangers will qualify as long as they don't lose their final game they drew 22 with fire not now lots of rain in Hamilton today so the Test match finished early with New Zealand 173 for 3 Simon Mann reports Tom Leighton's fine unbeaten century for straighted England on a day in which 35 overs were lost to rain after tea England's decision to bowl was a logical one with the pitch expected to ease further and they had New Zealand 39 for 2 broad dismissed revolver 5 to a loose shot and works account of the key wicket of Williamson for 4 superbly caught by root at 1st slip but let them dug in with Taylor they added 116 before Taylor on 53 presented works with a 2nd wicket and a 3rd catch for root England might have had more let them correctly survive 2 l.b.w. Shouts and was dropped by Stokes on 66 Taylor was reprieved on 25 by the 3rd umpire there seemed insufficient evidence to overturn what looked a plum l.b.w. Stokes struggling with a sore knee only bowled 2 overs England who left at Jack Leach and gave a debut to Zack Crawley playing for other pace bowlers partially to make up the stakes his inability to bowl is full allocation T.M.'s is on the radio this evening from 930 now after a 1st in a 2nd at 40 to one yesterday here your Black Friday bargains. Maybe 115 number 5 Glen force or 335 number 5 Captain Tommy thanks very much Gary let's hear who's joining Laverne for this morning's Desert Island Discs this week I'm casting away the conservationist and writer Isabella tree she's a pioneer of rewilding if you come in the spring you are standing in a landscape that really looks more like the Serengeti because it's this extraordinary thorny scrub interspersed with water meadows wildflower meadows and then wandering throughout it all we've got Longhorn cattle acts more ponies Tamworth pigs and then the surround sound birdsong and insects is now so loud that you can literally feel it reverberate in your stomach Isabella tree my cast away do you John asked to hear her Desert Island Discs this morning at 9. I remember the goal of Adar aphorisms I'm in that came to mind when you were talking to Nick their own it was it's not enough to succeed friends must fail us are all wishing Nick very well because sadly now it's going to be a chilly day I'm talking about the weather now some sunshine their shyness towards the north east frosty tonight you're listening today on Radio 4 Justin Webb and Simon Jack and Carolyn Nichols has a summary of the news the broadcasting regulator Ofcom has received an official complaint about Channel 4 after it replaced Boris Johnson with an ice sculpture during a climate debate last night the party said Michael Gove to stand in for the prime minister but were told the debate was for party leaders 5 of him took part the back seat party's leader Nigel Farage was also replaced by melting ice sculpture one of the u.k. 6 biggest energy firms and power has announced plans to restructure the business its German owners Iams said the u.k. Market was particularly challenging unions have warned the move could lead to thousands of job losses along with course Center closures. The metropolitan police has been ordered to pay nearly 900000 pounds to a former Conservative m.p. Who was investigated following false claims about a v.i.p. Paedophile ring Proctor had his home raided as part of Operation Midland they were paying council have a new president from today when the former prime minister of Belgium Shan Michel takes over from Donald Tusk the change is likely to bring a difference in attitude to Bret's it of which Mr Turner has been a vocal opponent. Thank you it is 25 to 9 there is more clear water between the parties today with Labor in the Liberal Democrats already saying they're committed to closing off stead least in its current form that's England's education watchdog the conservatives there today saying they would strengthen it separately of course there is quite a rug going on between the government and Channel 4 gammon Williamson the education secretary is on the line morning to you morning let's start with what you're suggesting for us that more money yeah we're looking at putting a short 10000000 pounds into office stead making sure that we strengthen it strengthen the quality of inspection quality of inspectors making sure that some of the largest school secondary schools and some of the largest primaries move to a 3 day inspection this is just to ensure that they look a whole range of different things from discipline in p. Sports and enrichment activities schools doing which is an area that of number of people have raised with the offset haven't looked Tatane off in the past years and did you know on that do you regret that off Stead's budget has been cut so significantly in recent years where this is why we're putting more money into office stead and while you can have a government that got it and now you're putting a little bit back in we we've worked very closely We've offset off said do an amazing job in terms of not just inspecting schools but my question was are you do you regret that had a really significant coding to the public accounts committee at full it a 52 percent in real terms between 2002070 you saying that was a mistake no we're not saying there was a mistake we were dealing with an economic crisis of late the last Labor government created and we and I had to made care what Wacko it was a it was 9 years ago but now Labor government is always tend to leave you with a big deficit and more in employment so we we've been dealing with that and what we're doing is we're recognizing we need to put more money into office that they do an incredible. Good job in terms of raising standards for children in schools working with teachers working with head teachers but they also to a very important job in terms of safeguarding making sure that local authorities children homes appropriate spectate and the issues that you have and the problem that you have with what Labor's and the Lib Dems are proposing you're going to have a 152 different inspection regimes by local account souls marking their own homework there's going to be no accountability in terms of children's homes or local authorities of what they're doing in terms of their children services so when most vulnerable children in society are going to be left with no one to watch their back and there is a concert. Let's turn to Channel 4. Days it always used to be a brick question yes well there are now on a Channel 4 question we had from Ed Vaizey from a conservative culture that recalls Enron who've said there was wrong on both sides in this but he said specifically that he did not think it would be wise for the Conservative Party to get into the business of threatening Channel 4 and what might happen to them after the election is that or is that not what the Conservative Party is doing at Nova Conservative Party isn't threatening Channel 4 we're raising a complaint we've all come which I think is perfectly legitimate young enough to Mr Vane's he said but it stops there there's no suggestion that you're going to look again at its public service broadcasting obligation no no suggestion at all it's good to see that it's odd because the conservative sources told The Telegraph if where re-elected we'll have to review Channel 4 s public service brokers will be there too we're saying that's just nuts men 2024 you've got to feed the review of chat channel for that's something that's been longstanding So whoever forms the next government is going to have that within their remit but that's not until 2024 we have a legitimate complaint because frankly you know they reduced the quality of the debate that's happened yesterday by refusing to let Michael go to go on a poet. Mission who is doing more in terms of in fire was invited to and it was a ladies debate but I mean I'm just interested in this this idea that Are you saying that you as a party at the moment are committed to Channel 4 existing in the same way as it does at the moment in the longer term future or is that up for review Well 2024 is a review of. Channel 4 there's no that's just what sets in legislation that says what is going to happen regardless of the issue that's been raised in terms of replacing a conservative representative and party representative in that debate with a nice chair it was a gimmick you know is a gimmick Channel 4 knows it was a gimmick they could have had a much better debunking a lot of people lot of people just going might say we want to get away from the guess what we want to know is where the Channel 4 can continue to exist in its current form and it has this strange that a hybrid existence doesn't but in its current form in the longer term future and you're saying yes what we saying is we have an issue we have a debate yesterday you know what I'm talking about we're already seeing that with off coal and it is legitimate to be raising that with off calm but that's for proper way to raise as an issue and that's for route we're taking down town so that's simple as that and Channel 4 ways an important role See I say Greece is a moving man to say let's plays an important role in a lot of people feel it does play an important deal they're worried that this government if it is returned with a majority might alter its row and what I'm not hearing from you is a commitment to not altering it but the government has got no plans to you've seen our money fast we've got no plans in terms of changing what Channel 4 does we have an issue which we're going to raise with off calm and we hope that of calm to look at this very seriously and Channel 4 respond to it as well it was a gimmick. As to what they did it was a shame that what they did it didn't actually add to the debate Michael would have been a real asset to have over on the show Gavin Williamson thanks very much 19 minutes to 9 the u.k. Is investing more money in Antarctica than at any time since the 1980 s. They'll be modernization of all the u.k. Research stations there as the new research ship the They've an atom brought to enable world class Polish science not to mention its robotic suburb ot Mike but face damed Jane Francis is director of the British Antarctic Survey who spent 3 decades researching the white continent as it's known she's an expert on ancient climates Martha's been talking to her about the new investment but began by asking whether countries around the world were doing enough to cut greenhouse gases even over the last few years when I've been working in the polar regions and looking at all the records from around the world we can say that they climate change is accelerating and 8 years ago you know people suspected something was happening and we watched it happen relatively slowly but in the last few years you know carbon dioxide levels are increasingly rapidly changing and there is an escalation of change this is another aspect of change in Antarctica there's been an increase in tourism in recent years 20 new polar expedition vessels being built in addition to the 30 year old that already exist and also in increasing the number of private yachts What do you make of that well I think some tourists some well regulated Tories tourism is not a it's not a bad thing I have been a lecture on a tour ship for one tour and somebody was there and this was a really good experience for me to understand the impact of Antarctica on tourists and I think that nearly everybody that got off the ship that I was on became an ambassador for Antarctica and people who wanted to preserve the environment so I think it can be a good thing but it does have to be well regulated and I think some of the crews to . At the moment his from the regulated cruise line is is well regulated they keep very strict rules and they protect the environment and they learn about the environment and they learn about what's happening in Antarctica so some of it is fine I think the threat may come from the individual tourists that are using Antarctica as a kind of the next big tourist playground and I do think that we have to be careful about where they go now your own work on Agent climates shows such a different world in Antarctica when we go back a 100000000 years to the age of the dinosaurs as you showed me as when we were back in Cambridge you know your headquarters. Yes Antarctica was a very different place so in the rock record there are fossils of leaves of tree trunks of ancient plants that used to grow in Antarctica everybody thinks that once there were forests in Antarctica that musta meant the continent was over the equator but actually since about 100000000 years ago like you say the time of the dinosaurs the continent has been over the South Pole in the position that it is now but Forest Grew in Antarctica and we have all the remains of the forests and the fossils of the dinosaurs that lived in the forests so we've been able to reconstruct temperate forests that look very much like Tasmania only New Zealand today so if you walk through the forests in Tasmania imagine a dinosaur walking alongside you and you'd be in Antarctica about 100000000 years ago clearly the climate was globally much warmer than to allow forest to grow in and taught and we can estimate that carbon dioxide levels were much higher and that would have been a natural source of carbon dioxide from volcanic eruptions but the years can take care of that but but on a much slower and natural timescale than the rapid speed at which we are putting carbon dioxide in the atmosphere today here rather have been watching the new wharf being built an immense engineering project that is needed for your new research ship as the sedated at Have you any idea of when it will actually be in service down here I hope in the next year or 2 we of course we've got to finish this building the ship and then it has to be tested it will probably be tested in the ice in the Arctic where it's a bit closer to home. And then we'll take it to Antarctica to do really big science I mean it is going to be a ship with a lot of really new state of the art scientific equipment in it and we'll be able to do science that we've not done before and we'll be able to go to regions that are more remote and that we've not been able to go so we can really build up a really good detail picture of the systems operate. In Iraq in and around Antarctica and how they're changing again Jane Francis from the British Antarctic Survey thank you for talking to us thank you but of course is not the time 14 minutes to 9 less than 2 weeks to go of course before the election we heard already from Nic this morning well he's also been speaking not just to us but to voters in different parts of the country to hear what people have been making of the campaign today his report comes from a head resting somewhere in Newport in South Wales he stopped off there on his way to Cardiff where as we've been hearing he is hosting tonight's t.v. Debate what would you like. To know top and some lights of a little my haircut but I just sort of polish my head occasionally. Some talk politics in the pub some talk of the water cooler or work of us over the weekly had to have come to shake hands so I'm in Newport to discover whether politics is on the agenda here or do you get shouted down if you even mention the election by name space I do try to sort of keep my opinions to myself because a people are so emotional about it and I think yeah you port is a bit like that emotional debate things walk at the moment it divides people a spec's it and I there's a lot of people are angry and upset about things you know what I hear I don't like enough to you you angry not sure yes I think I am angry this country needs to so itself you know stop all this mess and just add it really adding these are actual do that. The. Irish are goods. No I don't think I've met you in your Before I know because I come here a lot right. So you've got to be careful I mean I've got friends that's. Sorted I'm very. Into what's going on I listen to everything I've got Parliament on one day John from 10 o'clock on the phone to 10 o'clock in the night honestly I missed all my favorite programs. For America for our day to day program you know John Humphrys discarded and that's you and what's his name Jason just yes I think we should have another go I think people know more now of the market you don't want to say people was stupid or anything they just weren't given the information. In my name is a shock to me schoolyard stuff there were so many 1000000 people that wanted to leave and they should respect. The remains and I think that is to pay people for to take a bit more notice of what's actually going I don't agree with I'm still I'm working class the working class all my life for 41 years so I'm 60 next week and I still Michael weeks an extra 6 years for my pension but does that make you jump to divert your germy. Will give you the money back where you can get it from man who's going to pay for it in the end. You're working class on the money's gone home will give you learning about pharmacists one that. All the time and if you watch I mean it's not even willing to go on without a truly now for this interview when you hold him back because he can't you have to get out of the abscess he goes into no detail Jeremy Corbin wouldn't answer one question 9 times he was asked the other night on the t.v. And he refused to answer at the time we didn't watch that or did you read about it afterwards you know I read it saying there you are speak straight. They all conservative papers the mayor the express the telegraph you always at these sorts of arguments he said or is it only when they leave. We have a cup of coffee. Good afternoon Willy Salish temper I can't speak when you haven't done Jane. Thank you yeah you just order his car you drive. You often politics here in the south no you. Never talk politics and you don't call it that said you know Governor at what point do you mean you know I don't have a policy and with the b.b.c. Years ago I always voted Liberal and that was a. Belief anything it would be liberal that levee. You want to me send a message to Mr Corbett Yeah us to do is talk but not punish. You know he's such a simple thing. You know telling me that Jeremy Colbert is Scruffy you know it because I thought. He's really like 5th differently this hey you know which would you have a vote for Mr Colbert I always been late but this year my husband and I had to come out to the common market 3 years ago and I think Doris is doing well this be the 1st tell me the voted Tory. Yes he's shocked to hear you say. But what about all the other things Jeremy Goldman would say is all the money that he's going to put into public services the fact that he's going to try and make things work better for pensioners and for people of low wages for working class people he does not know when the balance. Definitely words were next but then you know we can look at things straight up and we might be. Already doing this mix in a kind of this kind of color it looks like he's mixed and she's going to put it takes on you have all but this is a 10 hour short amount of to get your next 18 really due to politics announced no I don't know just I don't know if I'm all right I don't listen to it as everyone else . I don't know anyone who follows a pattern these lot to me when the election he's got to have a clue. He's got some work to do I was doing. Some. Good stuff from McCarty It is 8 minutes to know I'm a regular update now from reality checks correspondent Chris Morris and stay Chris this is more like the record breakers than reality check today how many trees can he plant per minute was the world record. Yeah well all the parties have got ambitious targets on this Labor's out front on this issue talking about planting 2000000000 trees by 2040 and yes there's been some skepticism that's hundreds of thousands of trees a day which might sound a bit nuts to you and me but it is actually possible I mean to put it into perspective the committee on climate change that's the statutory body that advise the government says we need to plant one and a half 1000000000 trees by 2050 to help meet our legally binding target of net 0 carbon emissions So Labor's promising a bit more than that this is what John McDonald said earlier on the program the thing that people been raising this time and time again a massive tree planting program we talk about we're talking about you know we're talking about a 1000000000 new trees very 2000000000 I thought it was well it was true 1000000000 up until they're 2030 then to believe you're conservative billionaire doesn't know that it's wildness just a new law if you know but in Ethiopia your mother for you know Ethiopia this sounds fantastic Bruce true they planted 300000000 in one day. Did they really I mean I guess the broader point is that a vast number of trees were planted in one day in Ethiopia millions of people took part in the Countrywide effort but for example the head of one government linked organization told the b.b.c. Back in August they'd been ordered to plant 10000 of those trees that they had to pay for them so they planted 5000 instead but reported the full amount so I think a bit of skepticism is in order about exact numbers when they are big but it shouldn't deflect from the fact that mass tree planting can be done and is being done around the world but still the reality to be checked here is that it isn't a massive challenge for the u.k. To get to net 0 whether it's 203-020-4520 extension 50 from where we are now and there's some very bold targets being set in the selection. Yeah I mean the tree planting targets at the moment within the u.k. Only Scotland is really doing very well in tree planting it's an s.n.p. Priority and last year Scotland was responsible for more than 80 percent of all the trees planted in the u.k. Overall the Countrywide figure last year was actually pretty low but go back to the late 1980 s. And it was more than double current figures about 30000 hectares have been planted every year which equates to roughly 50 or 60000000 trees still not as money as Labor would need to plant but you know experts can plant saplings incredibly quickly some companies are starting to use drones to do it even more quickly so in a way it's really about logistics have you got enough stock to plant such huge numbers day by day year by year are you providing the right incentives to landowners to provide the space to tree planting and total tree cover in the u.k. Is far lower than in many European countries so of course in the end like many things is the political will really there to push it all through us Morris Many thanks for the time 5 to 9 when a woman speaks out about rape you expect that she says she was devastated by it if it happened to her most women in most circumstances are of course but when Debbie Harry spoke recently about her being raped affected her less than losing her guitar it led to some criticism of her and also some support from women who said she and others should be free to say what they wanted and what they actually thought Tanya sericea is here is lecture and criminology at Birkbeck College at the University of London and author of speaking out feminism rape in narrative politics and Sarah Green's on the line is director of The End Violence Against Women coalition morning to both Tanya 1st of all what did you think about Debbie Harry said Well I think that. It's completely understandable you know and it's a completely did legitimate response to an experience of sexual violence and I think what was interesting is this reaction and we need to remember the history of speaking out and that when women came together in the 1960 s. In the 1970 s. And talked to each other about their experiences what they realized was that the Homme of rape just wasn't recognized you know women told stories about going to police stations and being told oh well you know you should feel lucky because that's the only way anyone is going to want to sleep with you you know or you know didn't you have fun didn't you enjoy it completely dismissed and they talked about families friends doing exactly the same thing and what feminists did in response was women spoke about the trauma the high of rape and use those stories politically which is what I research in order to have society the law of popular culture recognize that sexual violence is actually a harmful and damaging bully you saying that now that it has been recognized that it is widely and properly recognised then the freedom to say whatever you want about how it affects you personally should just be that well I think what I would say is that it's probably a little bit of to mistake to say that it has been widely recognized but what we've seen is a real kind of focus on women and their narratives on how they act and that if they don't tell the proper story and act in the proper way then they get a negative reaction it's not just people like Debbie Harris we've seen it with kind of recent scandals around the c.p.s. And the players looking at women station media certainly more do you think. Exactly I think what time is coming to we are with a situation where the accepted or acceptable view of a rape survivor is that she really needs to present quite hall and or quite broken or she needs to tell her story in a way that is very emotional and so on and we find decision makers throughout the justice process from police investigators through to. Those making prosecution decisions and perhaps juries all tending to turn on you don't you not really presenting like somebody who's been really hurts and harmed and therefore you let's assume that in those terms then so does do what how does Debbie Harry's How does what Debbie Harry said. Have an impact on that well I think it's really striking because it's making us talk about it and that's actually a really good thing what we don't need of course is kind of them to switch to an alternative narrative of kind of a heroic resilience as if there are those who are really harmed and damaged or something and then those who heroically yes yes yes says you know it's a management to judge or it's just an attorney and not a matter then of criticizing it but it's also not a matter of praising her for what she has said well actually neither No I think the question is do we recognize sexual violence is inherently harmful or do we say women have to do a certain thing and act a certain when she wasn't saying she wasn't heartless He wasn't she never said that at all and I mean even we think that women have a right and all people have a right to sexual autonomy to not have to know their sexual consent ignored or violated and then how whether they respond doesn't diminish the harm of that shouldn't diminish the way that we react and the problem is that even though we have moved forward in terms of sexual violence we continue to focus so much on women and whether they're deserving undeserving and whether they do the right thing rather than actually just accepting that this is a well as a subject we should certainly come back to but for the time being Sarah Green from the end violence against women coalition and turn your series here as well from Berkeley College University of London thank you both that's all from us our editors were Tom's mother and Rebecca Keating have a very good morning. B.b.c. News at 9 o'clock the energy firm n power has announced plans to restructure its u.k. Business which is expected to lead to the loss of more than 4000 jobs the company which is German and has been struggling for some time and described the u.k. Market as particularly challenging unison said the move was a cruel blow for n. Power workers just weeks before Christmas the sister of one of the 96 people killed in the hills pre-state in disaster 30 years ago has called for all political parties to adopt the findings of a report calling on public bodies to be more transparent and accountable to extort the Griffiths said the conclusions of the report into the disaster written by Bishop James should be heeded to prevent another tragedy she was speaking after a jury cleared the match Commander David Duncan failed of gross negligence manslaughter Professor Fels crashin who led the Hillsborough Independent Panel's research team told today he was worried that lessons hadn't been learned for the inquiry into the Granville fire if you look at Grenfell and you look at the way in which it is being unpacked stage by stage what I'm concerned about is that those who are most affected as in Hillsborough and those who are most affected by Hillsborough are their voices are being lost we're not looking back sufficiently quickly to the origins of what happened at Randall the Conservative Party has lodged a complaint with the broadcasting regulator Ofcom after Channel 4 replaced Boris Johnson with an ice sculpture during a climate change debate last night Michael Gove was sent to stand in for the prime minister but the broadcaster said the invitation was for party leaders only the European Council has a new president with the former prime minister of Belgium Shan Michel taking over from Donald Tusk the change is likely to bring a shift in attitude to Bret's it of which Mr Turk was a vocal critic. A study suggests that a quarter of young people are so dependent on their smartphones that it's similar to an addiction researchers from King's College London say there can be serious consequences for mental health b.b.c. News in an hour's time Woman's Hour begins a series of interviews asking what the political parties are doing to win women's votes this morning Jane Garvey talks to Nicholas sturgeon 1st Minister of Scotland and leader of the Scottish National Party now media for Desert Island Discs with long Laverne. My cast away this week is the writer and conservationist Isabella tree she started out as a travel journalist but it was an adventure she undertook at home that would make headlines around the world in 2002 she and her husband Charlie made a controversial decision to take that hands off the wheel surrendered their 3500 acre estate to nature and see what happened despite bitter opposition nap Castle estate in Sussex just 45 minutes from London was transformed from conventional farmland into natural wilderness and now boasts a kaleidoscope of purple and pro butterflies nightingales turtle doves nesting peregrine falcons 13 species of bat and a prize winning author is about his best selling book about the project Wilding has been hailed as a landmark in nature writing she says we just love the feeling of life rebounding the noise of the birds and insects barking foxes roaring stags there is a sense that the very ground beneath your feet is coming to life again with worm cast and tails don't beetles fruiting bodies of funky moles you just feel like the land is heaving with life is about a tree welcome to Desert Island Discs thank you very much so you're 20 years into your rewilding project now for listeners who have yet to view your online webcam paint a picture for us what would we see smell and feel on arrival Well if you can.
Radio-programViolence-against-womenConservative-party-uk-mpsTreesLaw-enforcementMembers-of-the-united-kingdom-parliament-for-english-constituenciesSculpture-techniquesPolitical-scienceCriminologyBbc-radio-4-programmesHeads-of-governmentGender-based-violence Washington correspondent Gary O'Donoghue says the Miami area seems to be at the center of the investigation there's a big sorting facility that's being searched there has being been being searched since yesterday one device was found there this morning that was heading for Senator Cory Booker a Democrat another device had traveled through there so clearly the investigation starting to focus more on that south Florida part of the country fracking has been halted for at least 18 hours at a drilling site in West nigga Sharon after tremors were detected underground operations resumed at little plantain near Blackpool last week 7 years after they were stopped because of previous small earthquakes in the area and the Savage has more it was late this morning when the British Geological Survey recorded a north point 8 magnitude earthquake in the region of the shale exploration site near Blackpool sensitive monitoring equipment has been installed in the area with a so-called traffic light warning system in place today is the 1st time a red level tremor has occurred which is movements above nor point 5 magnitude the company carrying out the work says the event was microseismic and was tiny way below anything that would be felt on the surface much less cause any harm or damage 7 men have been jailed for using drones to smuggle drugs mobile phones and SIM cards into prisons the gang from Birmingham in the Black Country made more than 50 drops across the region and in the Northwest they've been jailed for between 3 and 10 years Detective Inspector going with Williams is from West Midlands police this operation shows that this isn't a victimless crime these are serious organized crime groups dealing in a drug smuggling ring inside and outside prisons I think the message needs to go out that using mobile phones in this way to try and organize it using drones in this way if you're outside of prison or is resisting or just driving somebody there or inside the prisons organizing it will end up with the police prosecuting a 30. A year old man has been banned from visiting Wellington town center and from being drunk in public anywhere in Shropshire magistrates were told it Stewart's done this from video road in Wellington caused significant Harris meant alarm and distress to members of the public because of his anti social intimidating behavior he's been banned from the town of assent for 2 years unless there's a genuine life or death emergency the Press Association is reporting that as there is to consult staff about the prospect of up to 2 and a half hours and job losses earlier this year as to put forward a plan to merge with Sainsbury's that proposals being reviewed by the competition in markets or 30 as has declined to comment on job cuts but a spokesman said it was considering changes to make it more efficient staff at Seoul's because they too will say they wrestled a man wielding a hammer to the ground after he tried to snatch one of the oldest surviving copies of the Magna Carta from a glass case a 45 year old suspect has been arrested on suspicion of trying to steal the document which is more than 800 years old the leader of the Scottish conservatives Ruth Davidson has given birth to a boy she and her partner Jen Wilson say they're delighted by his safe arrival at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary they've named him Finn as Davidson is due back at work in the spring. And the Republic of Ireland people are voting in a referendum on whether to remove the offense of blasphemy from the Constitution the last known prosecution for blasphemy was in 855 it currently has a sentence of 25000 euro fine if you're caught doing it the result is expected to be announced tomorrow afternoon finally in sport John ASCII is expected to go with the same shoes be town team at Oxford tomorrow the one that beat Barnsley in midweek but the A.F.C. Telford United striker Daniel ago has been ruled out injured for their home game with York news and support from B.B.C. Radio Shack should have more for you would have passed thank you very much Andrew latest on the roads now with David Trimble news for. Radios for of yes helping you get where you need to be trains very busy around the shows reality on the A 5 with queuing traffic from the edge bold Island through the A 458 Junction all the way towards the Dobbies on the junction with the A $49.00 Hereford Road in fact all approaches to that junction looking very very busy indeed still a $49.00 that still struggling from the battlefield Island towards the sun the one Islander some heavy traffic heading into town still on Castle 4 go towards the railway stations with the road in both directions looking very busy as well just noticed a queue on the northbound side of the A $41.00 that's heading away from Newport towards Sam Brooke as well so expect delays if you heading that way and is a bit further north you've got a bit of congestion around the turn hill junction so that's causing problems for both the A 41 and the A 53 on the trains we've still got disruption to train services at chose B. Station affecting West Midlands railway services platform that they usually use can't be used because of a signalling issue so replacement buses are running between shows and Wellington if you see a problem you can call out 330-123-3550 David Moore B.B.C. Radio Shack to travel Thanks David. For the rest today it is going to be very very cold as we head into the sea the windy through the night. Expected to be a cold day and sunny. 39. 7 minutes past 5 on B.B.C. Radio show Psha a person has died after a fire broke out in a bungalow in Woodside an 89 year old woman was rescued from the building in an effort described as heroic by structure fire and rescue service they were called to the scene just after 7 am this morning as Area manager Guy Williams explained to B.B.C. Radio shops as marquee when they arrived they were met by a really significant party confronted by a fire significant power in the bungalow especially in the roof area of the bungalow. They quickly committed some breathing apparatus screws into the building with those rails to try and locate I believe to be 2 people and they said provide the information about the 2 persons trapped in the property the crews found a lady believed to be in or eighty's and rescued her from inside the bungalow and they got just in the nick in the nick of time really just before the actual roof of the bungalow collapsed in well that collapses under way and we obviously had to withdraw from the property for the you know for the safety of our own crews say were to support the fire from a site you know attacked far from a side since the collapse of finished the insecure man was able to get crews back into the building again and breathe in our press to continue the search for the missing person sadly during the 2nd search we have found a. Body which was probably a person which is pronounced as deceased at the same which is you know which is devastated by the Crees a devastating for that. We will continue to be at the same extinction hotspots threat that day. Obviously now it's part of a fire investigation and a police forensic investigation in 3 points in that are that it doesn't appear to be suspicious but you know those are entering fine is really preliminary and the police will lead on that so it would be remiss of me to give any more detail on you know I'd like to offer some reassurance to the community that our communities POS a change. And all 5 of those will be in the area so you know offer people for safety advice check everything out if anyone's going to. Make sure people got working smoke lots not not suggesting for a minute is a factor in this fire it's all but you know we offer generic safety advice to people especially vulnerable people so if there are people in the community then we'd really ask those people to put their hand up and share some time or so we can talk to to them about their safety because when your colleagues so it wasn't at the scene he said this was particularly a gutsy call to go in with the roof in the danger that it was yeah absolutely the fire crews the incident command on the say there are no him and he has risk assess that you know he's made a professional call that the crews can go in and you know what you guys are right because crews have gone in they've done the rescue they've got the roof collapse that's very easy for me to say you know from a from a from a health and safety aspect of it I can tell you that's a gutsy call and I can tell you that you know we they all the crews that breathe after extra will call up doing their job and I would call it doing the job but actually is nothing short of heroic really brave call you know really proud of what they've done there and they should worry really you know where we are generally devastated for the loss of the life you know we would like to bring to people that probably fire I think it's a miracle that we've actually managed to bring one person out of the fire you know we will sort of debrief him discuss it and see how we can develop and also develop our community fire safety message you know and I'll work with the cancels to get more access to people who are extremely vulnerable so we can support them in the home but yet for the crews on the scene what they were confronted with what the the tactics they took nothing short of I cannot give them enough credit for what they've done this morning to to say that. Pockets firefighter area manager Guy Williams And of course we'll bring you the latest on that story. And the information on that fire as it breaks here on B.B.C. Radio. 11 minutes past 5 health bosses have stressed that every stone is being turned in the search for staff to keep Telford A and E. Department open 24 hours at a hospital board meeting yesterday it was confirmed that subject to final approval the units will temporarily closed overnight from the 1st week in December it's being done because there aren't enough doctors and nurses to run both in the units in Telford entries Bree Simon writes the hospital trusts chief executive he says they're trying to get more staff we need about 15 registered nurses and about 7 middle grade doctors in order to be able to provide a safe service across 24 hours a day 7 days a week for the 2 hospitals through the winter without having the kind of daily anxiety that shifts won't be covered we are actually working with an awful lot of agencies to see if there's a way of fast tracking trying to get people who are wise might not have been able to come so that's one of the reasons that I recently went and visited the Indian consulate about whether we could do something to get some Indian doctors back in because the Health Services had a had a long relationship with Indian doctors but we're also looking in talking to other hospitals as well to see if there's anything that we could do even on a short term basis that would give us support the trusts being criticized for not getting extra help sooner they rely on locums which costs more and hospital bosses admit they're not as reliable choosing not to work weekends and nights short notice there are claims the trust failed to send a letter to health education England requesting more doctors Simon writes admits the application was late but that's not the whole story the issue about our relationship with health education England is a positive one for 12 months we've been working hard with health education we've we've managed to actually secure posts and funding to develop new posts with them over that period and I've written to them formally. Before the template letter which is what this is referring to was was was was dispatched to the various hospital so that so they've had a letter from me that says these are the number of posts that we would need so it's simply not not correct for anybody to suggest that that the absence of the delay in that template being filled in by a relatively junior person in a different yes Bill yes it was late it was late. David Lawton the man in charge of all the Hamptons New Cross Hospital recently said doctors don't want to work in structure as they think it's unsafe Well Ed Royce Dales and any consultant who's coming back to work in the county he says that's not fair issues are nice if we didn't have a middle grade but it's a safe place to work I wouldn't be coming back if I thought it was unsafe there are issues and that's why the faith has been set a deadline because at the moment my colleagues are covering it as knights up and beyond what they should be doing but that's to make the area safe and the both department safe if we didn't have the middle grades which we don't have on a daily basis then it becomes unsafe I think it's very unfair so the doctors don't want to come because departments are unsafe I think having working in the place and speaking to colleagues from other places the reason that doctors don't want to come from a middle grade point of view is there haven't been enough consultants to support them because middle grades who aren't trainees want to come and develop their careers and if they haven't got consultants beyond to support that they're never going to come my hope is that with myself and 2 other colleagues starting shortly in the hopefully more than that with a need to enable and we can we can support the trainees coming through in the middle grades coming through that's advice to Alan and he consults and a final decision on whether the P.R. It says and the department will close over night from December will be made at next month's board meeting of course we'll bring you the very latest on that story right here on B.B.C. Radio Shropshire $515.00 on Friday Adam Green with the trustees at Whittington Castle say they've been overwhelmed by the generosity of some of the villages who've been raising money to pay for repairs after a recent spate of vandalism graffiti was sprayed on the castle walls last week and it will have to be removed by Specialist cleaners because of the historic status of the building John Joe Evans is the chairman of the trustees and he's on the line now joins are good afternoon. Just remind us 1st of all what's happened exactly. We. Took a. Ready ready rather obscene. Understand you call them doing this I called or not you saw them doing it they did it we have a monthly trusting meeting and we this is the 2nd trustee meeting that's been disrupted by this bunch of codes. Yet they didn't just spray the car Salissa plate the bus stop they sprayed the local pub next door. And then you know you just saw that I got went back the next morning it was pitch dark so we can really see the damage has been done and I'm sore too hooded youngsters coming off the top of the castle over a big oak bridge that we've got heart in their faces and just sort of they look like kids bunking off school and they've sold when under the archway and very professionally and speedily sprayed ready the wall the only wall ready that we managed to clean by that stage and did it again and ran all. So I was seeing that not so we'll bring you riffle through the. Quotes for repair as I gather the querulously because of the historic nature of the building Absolutely because it's got to be that the damage to the cottage which is lying or just is particularly complicated because. It is quite an extensive role and I think the whole is going to have to be painted so that we don't end up with a sort of great big new deeply painted blob woman if you like and then there's the stone work in one of the one of the towers up on the car so keep They sprayed around in and you've just got to be really careful that you don't end up you know the ready the walls are facing years old so it's got to be done really carefully and you know historically live got to be consulted and get their approval of the the way that it's done but we have been lucky that we've had a couple of companies come forward provided we ready can get the methodology sorted it actually offered to do it for nothing which is. The general Street as being sold and standing there been you know various other projects going on in the village that this the the school had a cake sale yesterday and raised 330 quid. We've had a local company on traditional wood products have given us 10 but to make various things we need for the for the castle I've solid really the damage has been done a lot of the things have been aimed so it it's nice this kind of Whittington Castle is ready a Whittington is a village is a very special place to go to pubs Skoal. A Norman castle and a church or ready within an hour a shop or within 2 minutes of each other you know and for kids to get dropped off in the car so grains and then walk to school isn't what happens is people are a bit sort of you know when something's on your doorstep the kind of ignore it because they see it every day and I think they need to stop and just have a look every now and again I think Moon Norman Costa with swarms on the merits and that's all route to school and I think this is working every day. Special villages so you've got this fund raising campaign how much is being resourceful on the on the crowdfunding ready campaign. Ready which will make Tomkinson ready he set it up on thoughts to nearly 800 planes and which was you know and some very generous gifts and millionaires and no anonymous gifts from single people of a 100 quid and I thought we had 1200 paintings and then everything you know if anybody can give whatever they can think we're we're grateful for the ones I've given a fiver you know because it's just nice to see that everybody saw time for to buy and made a mess and it's still. An opportunity because you've tried finding time to be very small Internet based if anybody else feels generosity towards a call so ready you just go into the into the 2 way which is a really lovely place that we've got going then I you know if this is there's a pulse in that the people can can put that money into Could it that the council is completely run ready by that we don't get any outside funding we've got no time to cancel money we got a little bit of help from the parish kind soul but apart from that all of the money ready that keeps the cultural open and running is raised through events which we hold ready and volunteers ready doing. It. So you know it's quite nice standing it is an understanding little place a ready kind of you get what we call the cultural bug and it's it kind of gets a hold of you to join you walk in the next. Well hopefully within the next week or so we'll get this vandalism cleared off. We've we're still waiting for quotes because the bits of lowing painting that need ready on what we call the culture age which is a slightly new addition to the Col so but still very old stuff old needs doing ready and we just we just soldier on with how the bit of Iraq financially the cultural that we call the big grounds a lot of 11 years ago to renovate the call soul which was fantastic but with very limited with. Much scope there is to make more money because we want to keep the communities I just appreciate you telling something I'm leaving that is thank you for the update to no doubt will hear about the repair thank you very much indeed joined us in standing over the trustees which in turn cast will stay with the repair work that goes on that B.C. Radio show Pulaski Lacey's whether C.B.C. Radio show if you wish. But he was can tell you that we continue to be cold it's that me is going to be called out to me as coach at the moment and I'm shocked that we've had some really heavy showers come. Down with some hail thrown in there as well substantial sized hail as well and I've had quite a few weather watches pitch assented Yes I've seen some of them yeah really heavy downpours and some flashes of lightning and at the moment along the borders temperatures of just 3 Celsius Oh I'm so very chilly indeed and as we head through the weekend it's going to continue to stay that way because we've got this feedback going directly from the north arctic air spilling over the top of us 3 tonight with prolonged clay spells a Showers will die out will be left with a widespread frost and temperatures down below freezing I think parts are shocked at minus one minus 2 not out the question so we start of tomorrow on a chilly night frosty night it will be cold and bright to start the best of the brightness is going to be further north and west as we head through the day a clump of cloud with some showers starts to push its way in from the east so by the end of the day will be starting to stick out in a van some heavy showers and some of them may contain a wintry mix is most likely to be hail but you never know temperatures 4 to 8 Celsius by day so very chilly and you add on that wind chill it will feel more like 2 or 3 so it's a day to wrap up warm as we head through the overnight period the breeze will continue and that is going to mix up the air a little bit so it shouldn't be quite as chilly still down to around about freezing and then Sunday will be a dry day with decent amount of decent amounts of sunshine a northeasterly feed to the still chilly temperatures ranging between $6.10 Celsius going to a party tomorrow night and it's outside who suddenly it will literally dicing injury. Yeah silver linings absolutely have a great weekend but I mean every weekend enjoy what you have right thank you very much Deepak you would other B.B.C. Weather Center It's 526 a year ago tomorrow 27 year old Sara King from him Stock Market Drayton was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis Sarah wanted to do something positive to mark the anniversary so along with friends and family she's taking on a 26 mile walk from one stock to stoked. City Football Club stadium Sara has been telling B.B.C. Shoppers in Perry all about her determination to fight the disease and her love for Stoke City started with my mother so she went to boarding school in the child and her uncle used to pick her up and take his the matches as a way of her getting out of school and so I followed in her footsteps so it's a family thing yeah yeah led by my dad stepped on board since he retired and that the 3 of us Guy and my auntie cousin join us all quite often so it's a family affair well as look would have it stokes as he's grabbed his 26 miles from in-store you you walk in it's tomorrow and your family is supporting you the support team yes they are so the 1st stop on the way is at my auntie's house so she's going to be the 1st refreshment point a moment out of be there all the way and driving his home and now walking 26 miles will be a big ask for anybody and even bigger ask if you've been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis which you have it's a term that we hear a lot about what actually is it Multiple Sclerosis is when parts of your brain and the nerve endings die and that causes different parts of the body to go and to stay and to lose the feeling of serving overseas there and also affects your cognition so affects the way you think in accounting to personality how does that affect you at the moment the thing with M.S. Is there's a whole group of symptoms and not everybody feels all of them so the main ones to me at the moment are city and also balance are I can fall over standing up quite easily so those the 2 biggest ones may. It's a year since she diagnosis and that's why you did you do in the war collect the money as you go that was to being a doctor you when you got the diagnosis Yeah and unfortunately that day is seems to be marked in the diary for Makes the year before had surgery to 3 and to me traces that went a little bit wrong and then exactly a year later I was diagnosed with M.S. So to mark the anniversary this year I really wanted to do something positive Well you just take the words Roy our mouth because what I was going to say was You have got such a positive attitude to you both will sclerosis it really is positive yeah I see it as something that's just given me that drive it to actually go out and do what I wanted to achieve in life a bit more push me to go with my career I wanted to go and it's pushed me to realize that I've got a great network of family and friends out there have supported me the whole way and step in tomorrow to join me and help along the way and it's just proven how fantastic everybody is it's motivated you that yeah definitely because I think from a with the M.S. I might not be able to do things for as long as as I would have without it so I need to just get me even to get back in and start ticking off my goals now what's the outlook for you I'm good at the moment because they found by accident actually when I had a different condition. So it's looking positive environment and there's some fantastic research they do and I'm looking to stem cells my min and what they can do with that so I'm really positive that in 1020 years Taryn they'll be something revolutionary a 26 mile walk in front of you to the hallowed turf of Stoke City Football Club as a long way we've been training a little bit Ross which is like radar. So it's actually be a challenge which is why I'm really thankful that bar room with me to keep me going . For inspirational stuff good luck on the walk Sarah Sarah can from him stalk talking to B.B.C. Shoppers in Perry Sarah will be fund raising for the Multiple Sclerosis Society during her walk and you can donate by just giving website if you just search for Sarah at skin or walking all over M.S. On the site and you'll find the links there 526 on Friday eve now getting up at 4 am every morning could pose something of a challenge to most people but imagine doing that every day for decades well that's what she feels legendary milkmen Steven Smallwood has been doing but from tomorrow the alarm clock is no more B.B.C. Radio shock his brand reports it was a bittersweet day for a well known shifts Norman today Steve who has been delivering milk to the people of the village for 37 years delivered his last bottle this morning at the village hall for his retirement gathering this afternoon with his wife grandchildren and friends after getting up at 4 am every morning for his entire career he doesn't fear that he'll automatically get up at that time and will actually be able to adapt to lying in every morning. Certainly in Sunday Army days are Oh Mrs Now me if the 20th I say rough about it now trying think wow I mean. She's being emotions because you know I saw a 2nd now. That even. Though I make. Me throw you. In really great what do you most love about the job. Making the people. Outside in a cold wind alongside the gathering today with Steve's wife she says she's happy for him but worries that he won't know what to do themself Now all this free time awaits him working so long that no one will deal with himself. How do you feel personally about this oh I'm happy for him not to begin the middle of the night and going out in the cold in all weathers it is the rest name I mean looking forward to see more of him Oh definitely yes it's a cold or the telly I spose really what do you think the communities responded so well to you Steve. He's just as anything for him you know anybody who's always there is never let him down when writing snow everything. Is way through it for him it's not just a one man band delivering milk working alongside Steve throughout his career was his supervisor Paul who feels the title of friend is more fitting in the supervisor poll remembers that Steve's round was far from easy delivering milk to more than 700 customers every single morning 748 customers and that's elevator rang to get round you know. It's a sad day for shift now people because they. Want to follow. Sales competitions is want is will melt into the air they're afraid I mean when I 1st started. I was going to have shift not years ago just before the Falklands War to stay wanted to change and so we had Chef an ally went on to run like I got made up saver and I used to do is all of these and cover for him and to do them 708748 customers will be delivering 2 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon and you know you've been around it certainly felt like a good buying shift all today but it was far from it Steve is going nowhere he promises to still keep in touch with his longtime customers in a literal sense it was more of a permanent handing back of the milk float rather than a goodbye B.B.C. Radio show of his broad Baker with that report I'm good luck to Stephen Smallwood the alarm clock is now right now it's 530. AM With your news and sports headlines is Andrew he can remember Steve used to deliver on milk when we lived in shift that he was between the years ago he's been there you know well I'm amazing. It's all kicking off in Florida apparently amends with arrested there in connection with the letter bombing campaign that has been aimed at critics of President Trump today the F.B.I. Found 2 more of those devices they look just like the 10 Centuri this week which would create. Pipe bombs packed with powder and shards of glass the energy firm quadrille has suspended fracking for shale gas at its site near Blackpool after tiny earth tremors ready to exit the operation is due to resume though tomorrow an investigation is underway here into a fatal fire on the Woodside estate in Telford firefighters rescued an elderly woman from a bungalow on Park Lane this morning shortly before the roof caved in but they were unable to save a 2nd person 7 members of a West Midlands based gang who used drones to smuggle drugs into prisons have been given jail sentences ranging from 3 to 10 years the gang conspired with inmates to transport drugs with half a 1000000 pounds into prisons here and in the northwest. As there is reportedly consulting staff about the prospect of setting up a 2 and a half 1000 jobs earlier this year as to put forward a merger plan with Sainsbury's that's being reviewed by the competition in markets often already and the leader of the Scottish conservatives Ruth Davidson has given birth to a boy she and her partner Jan Wilson say they're delighted by his safe arrival of the Royal Infirmary they've named him Finn. Means to ensure his. Football 1st and John ASCII is expected to go with the same team with Oxford tomorrow that be Bhansali in midweek and that means a 2nd outing for Fay akin to Barry and Lee angle up front together OK Barry feels that partnership with angle is a good one you have. In the game give you a few of each of. Which of us as we can on the fence and attack. The positive relationship forward with a lot of the piece you made of it yeah. Yeah. Daniel Otto will again be missing from the have C. Telford lined up tomorrow at home to YORK The buck stops chorus taking longer than expected to recover from his leg injury manager Gavin Cowan says he's not likely to be fit for Tuesday's game with Hereford either I'm not sure he's going to be sick for a week and doubtful very unlikely so yeah we know exactly where we're at with it we're just yesterday after everybody for the weekend program to give never wake the Man United manager to say Marino isn't confident the goalkeeper David Hale will sign a new contract but says he's not too worried by that the Spaniards out of contract in the summer and the club has an option to extend until 2020 however Marino wants to tie him down for longer the Spurs manager Mercier Potter Tino has thrown his backing behind goalkeeper Hugo Lloris after the Frenchman's recent poor form the 31 year old French captain's enjoyed a mixed season since winning the World Cup in July and was sent off in the 2 all Champions League draw against P.S.V. Eindhoven on Wednesday in September he had many drinking to drinking and driving and was fined 50000 pounds and was given a 20 month driving ban is one of the base for sure in football Oh no sir criticise but we have short memory. I remember after what's for me. Time to miss time to hear from my Caroline mostly Akki who's revealed that she's been suffering with rheumatoid arthritis for the past few months the Danish tennis player who's 28 says they have been days when she's found it hard to get out of bed but she's learning to cope with the condition. It won't really affect my plans for 2019 you just have to learn to listen to your body and you have to learn or figure out what what works you know everyone is different so. Ready for 2090 I'm excited for it Kara was knackered Europe today with news and sport on B.B.C. Radio more for me at 6 Thank you Andrew latest on the roads now with David travel news. Radio's for a few helping you get where you need to be for a lot of schools finishing for half term today the I 5 is very busy this Friday evening particularly in the area so you'll find it slow going really from the Preston Isle of the junction with the A $49.00 all the way through to Dobbies Island the junction with the A $49.00 Hereford Road there's also some patches of congestion further out around the Welsh bull roundabout as well the junction of the A 458 and the A $49.00 itself very very slow going in both directions between the battlefield and sunder when Islands traffic heading out of town also looking slow towards the heath Gates roundabout says you head out on delivering to road heading in Castle for great still very busy as is Smithfield road no significant delays around the Telford or bridge north areas on the congestion that would have spotted earlier on heading away from Newport on the northbound side of the A $41.00 that seems to have gone well though is still looking quite busy around the turn hill roundabout on the A 41 which is right about the situation on the trains as well Westminster Oh wait at Shrewsbury affected by some cancellations due to a signalling issue because that of that the replacement buses are running between shows and Wellington you can use your tickets on transport for a while services instead as well if you see a problem you can call 033-012-3355 extension 0 David Moore B.B.C. Radio Shack to travel Thank you David. Show after 6 now. On the show talking social media Twitter says it's lost $19000000.00 users over the summer and another social media company Snapchat is also seeing user numbers fall it's only beginning to fall out of love with social media do you still use Facebook do you still tweet earlier this month health secretary much Hancock warned of the potential dangers of social media stating that the threats on mental health was similar to that of sugar on physical health so what impact and influence does it have on you when are you still a big fan of what social media has to offer Amy or Ben is a social media psychology stop Oxford University I spoke to her earlier and asked her what some of the positives and negatives of using social media what we see there on a day to day basis is that there is not a lot going on if we look at social media use in general so we see the positive and negative effect and sometimes no effects whatsoever I think a key piece of research which comes to mind is that my colleague also at Oxford surveyed one in 5 U.K. 15 year olds and found that moderate use of social media has no negative effect on teen wellbeing if you go above this moderate use well being does drop actually eating before school or sleeping enough to have much more positive effects and Technology said negative effect so it really makes us question Does our focus on the negative effects of technology is that merited should we actually be focusing on something different and these are questions that we think about on a day to day basis in my lab and with my colleagues what are the positive impacts of social media we look at the negatives quite a lot but one of the positives we can get from it well it's again technology and social media is really diverse so I am oversimplifying but what we do find is that people connect very well. Media and other technologies and that's a key way and reason why there are still. On social media that it's become so integral in our lives especially for young people they use it to organize they use it to get news but mainly also to connect with friends and people across the a wider spectrum a wider world we find that marginalized groups find social media very effective in making sure that they can connect with others who feel the same or who are in the same situation as them and also those groups that maybe can't go outside that often there's a researcher up in Scotland who looks at people with autism and disabilities and their use of social media I've also heard this morning about mothers and their use of social media so I think we need to think about those groups that might need that to connect with others that they want to connect with them maybe don't have the chance to with traditional means sometimes we think of people on social media as just simply looking at a screen for hours on end is it changing the way that we form relationships with others I think the kind of our use is really important to think about his so we can look at a screen and actually be chatting with friends and that's almost like traditional communication and it's the transfer of information from US to somebody else and we get information back as I call it as we find out but pretty much what we've done for a low A lot of decades my actually social media use also allows us to passively scroll through a lot of information about other people and that is something really interesting and something we don't really understand yet because we do feel connected when we're scrolling through news feeds and learning about our social surroundings or about celebrities we don't know yet what effect that has on us and that's something that we're trying to figure out the moment so it's very much still an open playing field on what the effect might be of those more modern and newer ways that we use actual media to communicate and keep up to date with our surroundings do you think it will only keep getting bigger the. Amounts of people on social media we hear about digital detox isn't you know putting the phone away for a month at a time but our we fighting a losing battle there is only going to get more and more ingrained into our everyday lives I want to pick up these digital detox is because there have been scientific studies on what happens when we detox digitally and the most recent one found that if we leave off air in a way for 5 days our physical stress levels so our stress hormones decrease and that was covered massively in the media but what was often overlooked is that there were a lot of other effects are going on that like the reported life satisfaction of a person decreased as well so it seems like their life satisfaction is decreasing but their stress is decreasing too and this shows that social media has a really diverse role in in our society and for us so it might be that leaving social media benefits us in one way but it might actually Halmos in another so I think that social media is not going to vanish because people are still using it and it has become really key in how we function as a person and as a person in a wider society but I think naturally social media will change and it is changing on a day to day basis and it's very hard to predict what will actually happen in a year or in 5 years or in 10 years really interesting talking to a me earlier today Amy open is a social media psychologist at Oxford University B.B.C. Radio shops it's quarter to 6 on Friday evening its way Shropshire comes to mind L.M.A. To join and stay on to be on your. Radio . Right Time for some of the week this is obviously so he's mad but I really like it's it's cold out of our heads. Days from say the B.B.C. Radio show to let it be the till it. Begins may have to press. Him say. B.B.C. Radio show. No raindrops song than the duty. To make those bring in when I'm playing sometime and I want the friends I am with. The. Weekend big live. To. Do. Us. No Tampa jam. In the dome. The thing. That. We don't. Do. We can begin with rather let. Them get them. To end there. Let. Grover Washington and just the 2 of us on B.B.C. Radio shops can I say very happy birthday to my brother though I don't know if he's listening I know he's opening the present I bought him a run executes any pictures of things that he's picking out of the possible have sent him many happy returns the Viking who is very very old today happy birthday. Right would you believe we're about a 3rd of the way through the football season if you believe that through the town of both having campaigns you might describe as well a bit weird there in action on troops United to more B.B.C. Radio shops as MARK ELLIOTT as the latest and so sure returns rollercoaster 2018 hurtles on it looked like the manager John ASCII might be a couple of bad results from the sack as rumors swirled around him going into a game against Barnsley that didn't look all that winnable then talking here again takes it right but it toward. The IF But here's the thing talent great at times an awful lot of those capable of the sort of football that lights up League One they've only turned that into 3 league wins out of 15 the pressure is still very much on why mistakes at the back missed chances tactical inconsistency and periods in which that dynamism turns into the sort of lethargy that calls to mind the moments on a night out when you make goes from dancing to telling you he loves you to falling asleep it's restraining this team has potential bags of it and information and recent changes in personnel seem to have produced a side with more balance and we're at Oxford at the 3 sided Kasam stadium which has a center and a bowling alley where Stan should be would go a long way to convincing everyone a corner has been turned Morgan's may have. The right problem Draper has for Telford a team that looked like promotion contenders at the start of the season can't buy when in October they only won one of their last 7 they remain unbeaten at home and still in the playoff places York the visitors are just one point behind them they should bring a decent following to the book set and a win would reinvigorate a campaign stuttering like an Austin Allegro York have got big jump parking up front he used to be a championship player but at 36 and 17 stone he's now mostly famous for eating fry ups before a game. But after another poor performance at Cousin Ashton last week the Telford manager Gavin Cowan says his players need to focus on themselves the lads one of a successful but I can't keep playing in performances. You know on a dumb too afraid and now and you can't do that you can't have too afraid of performances in the spices 6 weeks just is not on. And you won't be successful off the back of that so what we have to do now is we have to you know recover when it's over callup recalibrate and I we need to get together as a group and find out what's not quite twig in the brain at the moment because I feel like everything else is there to prepare a muscular lake you know go on my eyes in facilities that. Have a look at myself. Today decide this season is looking a bit like a 6 like both teams could Rice and we could be on the verge of something delightful both teams are also threatening to collapse into a side gloopy mass will either get Master Chef or Hell's Kitchen on shops United tomorrow from to. Oxford and united against York tomorrow from to and of course if you if you've had the former manager poll has been sacked by switch after just 4 months in he's assistant Chris Joyce also went with him from Shrewsbury is also being dismissed but both left should be days after last season's play off final at Wembley if delivered just one win from 14 league games in charge at Ipswich who will bottom of the championship won't get your news around he can after this from Edwin Collins It's 6 o'clock. A man has been arrested in connection with a letter bombing campaign aimed at critics of President Trump today the F.B.I. Found 2 more not a tool ficus sent this report the principal suspect. Was taken into custody in the Miami area according to C.B.S. News the arrest took place at an auto parts store in Plantation Florida and D.N.A. Evidence was a critical U.S. Media described him as a male in his fifty's it comes 3 days after the 1st of 12 pipe bombs packed explosive powder and clash shards were sent to top Democrats and critics of President Trump the investigation quickly moved to southern Florida after some of the packages were traced to a mailing facility there an investigation has begun into a fatal fire in Telford firefighters rescued an elderly woman from a bungalow shortly before the roof caved in this morning they were unable to save a 2nd person initial inquiry suggest the fire wasn't suspicious B.B.C. Radio has been to the scene at Park Lane and Woodside firefighters were called to the bungalow at 725 this morning they entered the building and rescued an 89 year old woman suffering from complications relating to smoke inhalation but no serious injuries before the roof of the building collapsed another person inside died investigations are continuing to establish the cause of the fire and will continue into the weekend 2 former bosses of a restaurant in Lancashire have been found guilty of manslaughter it's after a 15 year old girl had an allergic reaction to a takeaway the kebab Meghan Lee ate contained peanut protein she was allergic to it . Bill Kurtis and her Rashid who ran the royal spice restaurant in us will will be sentenced next month Megan's father Adam lay hopes lessons can be learned from her death Also you may have received some justice with today's verdict. We live in for today's result is a warning to all that pay business is operating in such a deplorable and human. Awareness to learn from this and improve their standards with the media. Members of the West Midlands based gang who used drones to smuggle drugs worth half a 1000000 pounds into prisons have been sent to prison judge the. Burning in Crown Court described their actions as a sophisticated commercial operation the police traced the gang using mobile phone records and data recorded by some of the drones that they captured a scenic attach to reports the Gang of 14 men and one woman began their sophisticated criminal operation 2 years ago using several drones they transported cannabis crack cocaine and heroin and other items including mobile phones in same cause into jails in locations including Liverpool but. The packages were tied to the drones with inmates using the phones to speak to the pilots to help guide them over the barbed wired war. 33 year old man has been banned from visiting Wellington town center for 2 years and from being drunk in public anywhere in Shropshire magistrates were told it still had done this from Vineyard road in Wellington had caused significant Houseman's alarm and distress to members of the public because of his anti social intermediating behavior as is reportedly consulting staff about the prospect of up to 2 and a half 1000 job losses earlier this year has to put forward a plan to merge with Sainsbury's that proposals being reviewed by the competition and markets authority as it has declined to comment on any job cuts but a spokesman said it was considering changes to make it more efficient the leader of the Scottish conservatives Ruth Davidson has given birth to a boy she and her partner.
Radio-programMass-mediaEducation-in-englandUnitary-authorities-of-englandNuts-3-statistical-regions-of-the-united-kingdomArchitectural-elementsStructural-engineeringStructural-systemManagementBusiness-termsConstructionLocal-government-districts-of-the-west-midlands-region- An American in Paris Julian Martin will give a piano master class this morning at 10 in Harris' concert hall today's high notes a new new peppy auditorium features a m.f.s. President and c.e.o. Alan Fletcher seraphic fire coral ensemble director Patrick to Prairie Quigley and pianist. They'll talk about the Aug 17th Aspen Chamber Symphony program ever Val's Piano Concerto in g. And the Mozart Requiem admission is free and the discussion will be broadcast tomorrow at 2 here on Aspen Public Radio at 1230 today at the Aspen Community Church top students perform a diverse program in a free spotlight recital and $830.00 tonight it's a free brass Bash in Scanlan hall on the bus bomb campus bus and at this time every weekday for more festival notes a feature we're proud to present here each summer only on Aspen Public Radio broadcasting I'm Katie Ajax asp and k.c. J.s. Carbondale You can also listen at Aspen Public Radio dot org. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington encore of a coalmine the new school year starts today in Florida's Broward county that includes Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School were 17 people were killed in February N.P.R.'s Greg Allen reports new security measures have been adopted throughout the school district several students and parents said they are satisfied with the security upgrades adopted at the park when high school and ready to start a new school year instead of one school resource officer there are now 3 armed officers on campus plus 15 other security monitors school superintendent Robert Runcie said there are new surveillance cameras doors that automatically lock in a single point of entry for all visitors throughout the day just important he says is a new emphasis to make sure all protocols are followed gates are locked at all times once. At their open there needs to be somebody at the gate. Making sure that everybody is aware that clearly identify similar security measures are being adopted in all 230 of the county schools Greg Allen n.p.r. News Parchman Florida. 4 states held primary elections yesterday in Connecticut's gubernatorial race Republicans chose businessman Bob Stefanos to face Democrat Ned Lamont in Minnesota former g.o.p. Governor Tim plenty lost his primary to g.o.p. County commissioner Jeff Johnson Johnson will face Democratic Congressman Tim Walz in Vermont Democrat Christine hull quizzed is now the 1st openly transgender woman to run for governor she'll face incumbent Republican Phil Scott and in Wisconsin incumbent g.o.p. Governor Scott Walker will face state schools chief Democrat Tony ears also in Wisconsin Republican voters chose an ally of walkers to run for Senate from member station w u w m my own silver reports Republican leader is a supporter of President Trump live oak mayor is a state senator and nurse she had the backing of the Wisconsin Republican Party Governor Walker and House Speaker Paul Ryan who are presented herself as the proven conservative in the race defeating a political newcomer who built himself as an outsider who Carol face Democratic u.s. Senator Tammy Baldwin in November Baldwin is a 1st term senator and the 1st openly gay member of the Senate in a year when many people are expected to vote based on how they feel about President Trump folke mayor says she's firmly in his corner she says when he succeeds the nation does social quote stand strongly with him for n.p.r. News I'm my answer over in Milwaukee authorities in Italy say at least 39 people have been killed by a bridge collapse in the northern city of Genoa fire services chief Emmanuel g.c. Says teams continue to search the bridge wreckage the possibility of finding people alive on the developer are shrinking with the passing of time we never lose hope he says there's concern more parts of the highway bridge could collapse on Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average is down more than one percent at 24000 $997.00 the Nasdaq is down one and a half percent this is n.p.r. . Reports from Afghanistan say a bombing in Kabul today has killed at least $48.00 people and injured more there are additional reports of Taliban attacks on security forces most recently the Taliban assaulted the city of hostname killing more than $100.00 police and troops and many civilians Israel has opened a supply route at a key border crossing with Gaza the border crossing still remains tightly restricted for people young Frank reports the opening comes after several days of calm in the rest of area the opening of the Karen Shalom border crossing means to return off the flow of goods hundreds of trucks are expected to cross into Gaza the spokesperson of the Israeli Ministry of Defense said the crossing had been closed by Israel since July 9th for anything but food and medicine following weeks of file and so long the Gaza border in addition to the opening of the Crossing the designated fishing zone off the Gaza Strip will be expended according to Israeli military Egypt and Israel maintain a tight blockade on Gaza which is ruled by Hamas for n.p.r. News I'm young Franken Televisa the National Interagency Fire Center says there are 106 large fires actively burning in the u.s. Almost all of them in the West the National Weather Service is warning of the chance of dry thunderstorms in the Western u.s. Today these could trigger new wildfires there are warnings about elevated fire conditions today in Wyoming Nevada Orgon and Northern California again on Wall Street the Dow and Nasdaq are down more than one percent I'm Corba Coleman n.p.r. News support for n.p.r. Comes from Wells Fargo established 1852 reestablished 2018 with a recommitment to customers working off the principles the company was founded on Wells Fargo dot com slash re new Wells Fargo Bank and they and Americans for the Arts. This is one a I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington Remember safety patrols those kids with the orange belts patrolling the cross walks keeping their classmates safe it's a sought after position at many schools and not just because you get to visit Washington once a year it just feels good to know you're helping keep your classmates safe by doing something so simple how times have changed so much for worrying about distracted drivers now schools are worried about the term and shooters more students are going through active shooter drills learning terms like run hide fight and perhaps debating which teachers on campus they trust to defend them with firearms Now research shows that mass shootings are up nationwide but not at schools and the number of school related shooting victims is down. But tell that to the parents who have heard so much about Columbine and Sandy Hook and now Marjorie Stoneman Douglas that high school in Parklane Florida gets back in session today Jack MacLeod is a senior at Douglas as of today he's also the co-founder of students for change a nonprofit that engages students in policy discussions and he joins us now from Parkland Jack welcome back to one. Hi How are you thank you so much for having me on thanks for making time for us and also making time for us from w l r n Public Radio is its education reporter Jessica become and Jessica welcome Thanks Joshua We'd love to hear from you your questions and thoughts about school safety today e-mail us one. Am you dot org comments on our Facebook page or tweet us at one a Jack I know we've only got you for a little bit I know that you are at school right now so I wonder what the mood is like on campus How's it feel to come back and start the term. Well I definitely feel a little anxious but I am also excited for the school year and I'm a senior and they've done a lot with the school environment whether it be a new portables a new specialist new security measures so you know we'll see how the day goes and then eventually how the year goes what are you expecting this year Jack you're a senior I'm sure there's quite a bit that you're looking forward to. I I don't necessarily know what I'm expecting I'm hopefully I just want to get a simple school year but I can get in and out and do my thing and focus on my academics and focus on things for change Jessica Big been talk a little bit about what's happened at Douglass and in Broward County public schools since that shooting on Valentine's Day particularly with regard to security on campuses what's been going on. Sure or so actually the superintendent of the Broward County School District Robert Runcie had a media availability this morning at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas to give an update on what they've been working on at the school over the summer he said that there is a doubled security presence there permanently now and there's also a 12 foot fence around the building the $1200.00 building which is where the shooting took place that building has not been used since the shooting there are plans to eventually demolish it and build a memorial there and they have upgraded cameras new intercoms additional fencing around campus doors now lock automatically and they're also planning more code red drills those drills that show you what to do if there's an active shooter or something like that they plan to do that at least once a month and parents will get a one day notice before they do that yes you have the Broward County school superintendent Robert Runcie gave a press conference last month late in July to talk a little bit about what the district is doing here's part of what he said there is no way that we're going to implement security measures that this community expects from us and not inconvenience students that inconvenience visitors and folks in the community it's going to happen is going to be the new normal and folks are going to have to adjust to it that's Broward County school superintendent Robert Runcie speaking last month Broward County by the way is the county just north of Miami of Miami Dade County by way of the geography Jessica what's the response been from parents and students to some of the changes that have taken place. Well there's a lot of anxiety here we heard that from the student that you just spoke with Jack and I've heard that from parents and teachers and students that they felt even more anxious going back to school today than they did even in February when they when schools reopen right after the shooting but one of the things that has complicated matters in the last days and weeks is that the school district has made some changes and decisions that they had been saying they were going to do so for example they had said that they were going to do a pilot program with metal detectors that Marjorie Stoneman Douglas that they would then consider you know expanding throughout the school district and then the superintendent reversed course on that decision which upset some parents and actually there's a movement here to. I guess replace some of the leadership on the school board 5 of the 9 seats of the Broward County school board are up for reelection on August 28th and 2 of the parents of children who were killed in the shooting are running for the board and some of those parents had a press conference recently talking about how in particular their reversal on the metal detectors decision and some other decisions that have been made just make them feel like the security issues are not being taken as seriously as they would like them to be we are speaking to an education reporter Jessica Bakeman And to Jack McLeod a senior at Marjorie Stillman Douglas High School in Park in Florida and the co-founder of students for change we'd love to hear from you about school safety one a x.w. Am you or Jack what do you think of what the district has been doing since the shooting happened to try to make your school in particular safer or at least to make you feel safer does it help. Well I know for one thing that these people are trying their best to make school a safe environment but just as it is they have to be accepting and welcoming and relating you know to be you know to be an academic environment as are security measures inconveniencing students I don't think I've had any inconveniences today I know that there's a lot of gates around corners that weren't there before a lot more security for different parts of campus that they've just created it's a lot it's almost a new environment but I think they're trying their best and I think that this year is going to be as successful as it can be give us a sense Jack of what your classmates have been talking about in terms of what they wanted to see on day one when they came back to Douglas are they seeing the kind of school they wanted to see today or are there things missing out of place things that just don't feel right what's the mood your classmates right now. Well I know for a fact that the environment here has changed so drastically from what it was prior to February I know that you know the freshman building was such a landmark of Marjorie Stoneman Douglas and I think that the general mood for school especially with all the students is just a little lower now and I think that we have a lot. Higher expectations you know just to be not feeling safe and it's not a welcoming environment anymore to some extent a lot of didn't feel that way so I can't speak for on behalf of all the student body but I can say that myself and I know that these people are trying to keep us safe and have school become a welcoming environment anything in particular Jack that you would like to see done to make the school both safer and more welcoming. I don't have anything specific to say I think everything that they're doing is just what can be done I know that they said that we were going to have metal detectors and we don't but I don't know how those would work out and so I think that we just have to keep going along the school year and see how things progress with everything and then we can determine whether or not we need something to be put in place or a need something taken away we heard from some of you who are in Florida talking about the school changes the schools there not just in South Florida but also in central Florida here's what one listener left in our inbox My name is Shantelle I'm from Orlando Florida I feel like Peter strip the arm so that they can protect the children. And there are ways that it could be done safely it's just a matter of trying Shantel Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us Jessica what about that there had been talk in Florida of arming some teachers and school staff who wanted to be armed and trained and having them on campus did that go anywhere has there been progress where does that stand yes it did go somewhere and in fact there are armed school staff on campuses around the state now so 3 weeks after the shooting the state legislature passed a law a multi-faceted law responding to the shooting and one aspect of it allowed for the arming of school staff it's specifically says that it would not be for people who are only teachers however there is a situation where a teacher could be armed if that teacher also has another position like for example if their coach and the other thing that the law did that's really the most important thing is that it requires that there's a police officer or an armed guard on every school campus and there is both a shortage of available law enforcement in Florida and also obviously a lot of districts don't have the money to pay for that so even though there are districts that would prefer not to arm school staff many of them had to because it was the only way that they were going to be able to comply with this law and Broward County is one of those districts and initially the school board said that they wouldn't arm school staff but they alternately had to because they weren't able to otherwise comply with the law and this has been handled differently in different districts which is another thing that has been that has come up as criticism from parents because for example as you mentioned Miami Dade which is neighboring that school district said we will not arm anyone who is not a certified law enforcement officer and so they made partnerships with all of these different local police forces and got them. Involved to have them place their officers on school campuses so they could avoid doing that and in Broward they're using basically a mixture of police and armed staff Jack I know we got to get back to class in just a minute but arming teachers and staff on campus what do you make of that before we go to let you go Well I do got to say that I think we have to be very specific on how we word that do we want to arm teachers or do we just want to have an armed force on campus I think teachers should and should not be armed because they weren't trained to shoot they were trying to teach and teachers and we have a whole new security force under 3 new security officers and 15 amp especially if there are other means by which we can fix or didn't they instead of supplying our teachers with question when they should just be supplied with the things that they need to care for students with the knowledge so they can go out into the world Jack MacLeod a senior at Marjorie Stillman Douglas High School Jack I hope you have a great 1st day of school and a great year and thanks very much for talking to us thank you so much I appreciate it they carry on and education reporter Jessica big win Jessica thank you thank you will continue our conversation in just a moment I'm Joshua Johnson You're listening to one from w.a.m. You and n.p.r. . Good morning from the b.b.c. In London I'm Peter also b.b.c. Top line here are some of our top global stories this hour there's anger and finger pointing in Italy today after yesterday's dramatic collapse of a bridge killing dozens the design of the bridge is being blamed by some cables run direct from the deck to the top of the towers with no need for the huge anchorages on the banks that characterized the suspension bridges but experts question why the steel cables were encased in concrete possibly hiding corrosion inside the B.B.C.'s Mike Sanders to Afghanistan where at least 48 people have been killed in a suicide bombing police say a suicide bomber walked into an education center in a Shia part of Kamil and detonated his explosives among students it's not known who carried out the bombing but Islamic state militants have previously attacked Shia targets and 73 years since the end of Japanese colonial rule on the Korean peninsula it's known as liberation day but in his speech to mark the occasion South Korean president men Jane said true liberation wouldn't be achieved until the south and the North shared peace and prosperity so what it means about that is it seems as if Korea itself both north and south are continuing along the lines of progress even if the United States is not home port so that means various economic ties that means they've been doing with things like sporting culture exchanges so you want to pay kind of build on that the B.B.C.'s lot of Baker and so on and in London I'm Pete Ross at the b.b.c. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the Kiplinger foundation supporting public understanding of business and the economy from the Ford Foundation working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide to address inequality in all its forms learn more at Ford Foundation dot org. And from e.c.m. See Foundation working to improve post-secondary educational outcomes for under-served students through evidence taste innovation learn more at e.c. Mc Foundation dot org This is one essay I'm Joshua Johnson we're discussing school safety as many students are heading back to campus what would it take to make our schools safer is there some kind of training that teachers and administrators can use that is the most effective comment on our Facebook page tweet us at one a or e-mail one a at w a n u dot org When we get to some of your comments including from some of you who work on campuses Jennifer emailed I teach high school every morning we have a moment of silence during the announcements and every morning I use that time to pray that no one shoots anyone in our school that day this feels crazy but sometimes the most or only realistic thing protecting my class my other prayer students with mental health issues would be able to get help and the rest of the students would be kept safe from them. Karen wrote on our Facebook page if you want to feel safe in schools let parents administrators and school board members decide on safety measures if you want to be safe in schools let law enforcement make those decisions Keith is listening in San Francisco Keith tweeted I hope the students can readjust and get back to a normal routine my mind wanders to the fact they made huge changes at the school but what about the thousands across the country and aren't these changes a little too late and Josh wrote on our Facebook page so there's a mass shooting in a school and the left cries out for more gun control and says only police officers should have guns in schools now they put police officers in the schools and the left loses their mind clearly this is a complex national debate and let's get to that debate with our next 2 guests joining us here in studio is Francisco to go on Junior the chief legal officer for the National School Boards Association that group is making recommendations to the trumpet ministration on how to fund safety efforts in schools Francisco welcome to the program thank you very much and joining us from n.p.r. In New York is n.p.r. Education reporter on your comments she is the author of the test why our schools are obsessed with standardized testing but you don't have to be on your thanks for being with us thanks for having me that national dialogue about what to do particularly after the shooting in Parklane Florida how is that affecting the national dialogue did Parkland move the discussion in a certain way or is this just kind of a louder version of the same debate we've always been having I feel like Parkland really excel aerated what you might see is a turning point or a pendulum swinging back of the 1st 8 to stipulate some basic facts Ok schools are by far the safest places for children it is far more dangerous for your child to get into a car to drive to school than any danger they may face in school in fact the c.d.c. The Centers for Disease Control has been setting this for many years they find that less than 2 percent of all homicides which are already. Really rare less than 2 percent of all homicides of children and teenagers occur at school or even on the way to and from school so schools are extremely safe that said the debate that we have a risk will discipline really there's a number of different camps we've been hearing from the camp that is very concerned understandably so about the shooters Nasheed beings hardening schools through security measures there is also an equity lens that people are bringing to the debate and that's about the fact that you know is there a school to prison pipeline is there disparate discipline and more arrests of black children in particular in schools and then the 3rd kind of camp here is really about what's developmentally appropriate you know we had the student from Parklane speaking about how does it feel to be at school does it feel like school is a welcoming place and this is very serious because violence in our schools is perpetrated by members of the school community and those are people who may not be rich saving the kinds of services that they need that are appropriate and so when we look at what should our the priorities be as far as school safety there are many who say. Feeling welcomed at school is actually of life or death importance Francisco You recently testified before the Marjorie Stillman Douglass local Safety Commission I wonder if there are any lessons for the rest of the country to learn from that commission either what they're focusing on what they've accomplished or just the kind of dialogue that they're having but I think they've had a very productive dialogue and what's really important about what they're trying to achieve is to make sure that law enforcement is really a part of the conversation with school districts and school boards and we think that's a really good idea because the key is preparation it's planning it's talking to your local 1st responders to your local sheriff's departments and planning ahead of time especially if you're going to have school resource resource officers our campus and I think that's that's really huge piece you know and then s.b.a. We don't believe in arming teachers we think the much much better approach is to use trained law enforcement personnel but that requires planning having conversations about the role of the police officers of law enforcement on campus and frankly as you saw from Broward the differences between Broward and Miami it's going to be a community based conversation it'll be different in you know in all of the school districts across the country will be kind of amazing particularly in south Florida where you can have schools that sit like directly on the county line on either side of like a highway right a sickly that would have wildly different policies potentially on how they keep their campuses That's right and you know one of the reasons we encourage the law enforcement angle is because they're trained they're trained not only in defense but they're also trained in target identification and identifying a perpetrator God forbid that somebody with some sort of weapon who has you know less often will training accidentally shoot someone or injure someone or gets injured themselves because we're not clear that they are there to protect students so a lot of different things that school boards have to think about we're hearing from you about safety on a variety of campuses including university campuses. It is in East Lansing Michigan and Elizabeth emailed I go to Michigan State University and guns are something we are very worried about as a Big 10 university a lot of my friends and I have talked about how on the 1st day of classes Our 1st thing we do is think about the nearest exit out of the building in case of a shooter though m s u does a pretty good job at restricting the general population from the residential area of buildings the classrooms are still easily accessible to anyone with any type of motive this might speak a bit to why the Department of Education created the Federal Commission on school safety in response to the Parkland shooting that's holding hearings has anything come out of that so far what kinds of issues have come up so far I mean I think what's been notable about the commission is what they're not talking about which is any kind of gun safety or gun control measures instead they have pointed fingers at a variety of different culprits that we hear about a lot things like video games things like social media or cyber bullying and you know they are talking about mental health as a factor toward school safety but in terms of changing the dialogue I mean I think what's been noted notable about this administration is that they've been backing away from Obama era guidance around school safety and that guidance really focused on the civil rights aspect of it the idea that you know we still see black and Hispanic students being arrested at school being referred to law enforcement at much higher rates and that school discipline the decisions that teachers make every day really are you know having a disparate impact on different groups of students and that's not something that this School Safety Commission is really talking about Francisco you've been in front of that commission what kinds of recommendations has an s.b.a. Made in terms of what the nation's schools should be doing differently that's right well we've actually put our recommendations and 4 buckets but I think the 1st and foremost is what we just experienced with the whole Broward conversation about the lack of enough funding to. I have school resource officers on campus and having to go to alternative methods so I think one thing that the federal government can do very clearly is provide more funds so that schools and communities if they choose to have school resource officers and trained law enforcement officers so that they can afford and I'm sorry just before you go I just want to clear you're talking about making sure that schools don't have to do like some kind of a mutual aid agreement or like a security guard you talk about sworn peace officers who are vetted the exact same way as a police officer would be absolutely make all that whole say matrix of decisions that police officers are trained to make That's correct Ok that's absolutely we think that's the safest route rather than having somebody who you know is trained in it in a 12 week course or some minimal training that could raise other issues of safety and concern so I thought that important piece the federal government can do and they can also give us funds for wrap around services for mental health services we heard in Jack's earlier comments the sort of distress that anxiety that was underlying So even students who are coming back to a safe environment where something has occurred you know that anxiety is going to be there it's important that we be able to address the through either referrals to local community services or as the Los Angeles Unified School District has done co-locating mental health services in the school district mental health has come up with a number of your comments to us including this fois mail that landed in our inbox right in this John I'm from Michigan I'm a teacher I work and you've been a corrections I'm concerned that we really don't have an. Answer to school violence or gun violence the attacks that have taken place in the United States we're not addressing gun control and then we also don't have a manhole system in place to track try to identify. Possible perpetrators of these currents are reaction kinds could be. Arbitrator John thanks very much for calling in and sharing your thoughts on you what about mental health where is that fitting in the conversation right now you know mental health has been a friend Center for a lot of people's concerns talking about you know one of the most important factors that contributes to school violence but that daily feelings of unsafety And I think a lot of the concerns with what are being raised right now about you know needing more funds for school resource officers people are saying well where was the money before and obviously you know advocating a balanced approach to funding both of those Texas services at the same time we do see you know very very high ratios at schools across the country of students to counselors and it's extremely difficult to move the needle on factors like you know whether it's suicide or whether it's homicide or other violence if you have so few resources we're speaking to n.p.r. Education reporter on your comments and Francisco and the growing Junior the chief legal officer for the National School Board Association Francisco Yes And you know I think it's important for us to keep in mind that we don't want to stigmatize access to mental health services either so you know I don't I don't think I think we need to be careful in a conversation that just because somebody has mental health issues or needs doesn't mean that they're going to commit an instance of mass violence and so one of the things I think that's important is that schools you know establish threat assessment teams where they take the whole picture the totality of circumstances into consideration that's where law enforcement can help because they can give indicators to school boards about what certain activity means what's what how they can determine whether there is something that's imminent that's about to hit that and then they can all take the appropriate steps Mike wrote on our Facebook page we already know what makes school safer comprehensive social reforms including firearms and bullying and health care we've decided these are not priorities in our society so there's nothing to be done but accept a certain percentage of sacrificial children. Jonathan wrote on our Facebook page one of my teacher friends fears that arming teachers will lead to a teacher versus students mentality just knowing that a teacher has access to a gun will create a more antagonistic mentality in the classroom we've heard about the role that teachers may play in safety including potentially being armed that law enforcement may play what about students are students a part of this national dialogue at all I mean we heard from some like Jack that they've got a really clear idea of what kind of school they'd like to go to and I'm sure they've got some ideas all the policy solutions that I'm hearing and you probably know better than I do all the policy solutions feel very top down I don't really feel like the students are part of this debate at all except in so far as they force their way in I mean I have to say that after I agree with you I think after Parkland we see a much larger role for student voice and to their credit the students are really stepping up and demanding to be heard and their you know what they're calling for is all about policy it's all about guns in schools getting you know getting guns out and it's a pretty clear agenda the idea that students should be made responsible for you know let's say pointing a finger at their fellow students or identifying a threat and that seems like you know potentially an imposition on someone who's just at school trying to learn but unavoidably students are at the center of this conversation and to listen to them about what makes a difference in their daily lives you know when we talk about these security measures like. Metal detectors for example you see impact on students' lives they are made to feel like criminals there was a story that one researcher told me of a school that instituted metal detectors seemed like a reasonable step that this led to students waiting outside the school in the cold and actually lead to more fights because they were unsupervised and so a lot of these changes that we make if you don't consult students on their experiences there can be unintended consequences Francisco I've covered a lot of school board meetings and many school boards have a student member and usually that cues. Bright and thoughtful and talented and outspoken and has great things to say and they're just there to be cute like they're not really a part of the debate at all ever to school boards take the kids seriously from your point of view I mean to school boards need to do more to make sure that they engage students on the front end of these discussions instead of just saying Ok kids welcome to school for the 1st day here's what we decided without you know I think I think school boards do you have to keep in mind school board members are their volunteers right there and they're there because they care about kids that's the 1st of what these people are giving their time because they are really concerned about student and their educational achievement so if you still elected officials in many play our elected officials they are elected officials but I think that what's important about this is that school board members really do want to hear student and put it just depends on you know the gravity of the situation an issue like school safety has so many components I think it's a great idea to involve students in in the conversation but think about what school boards are doing here they're talking not just to law enforcement officers mental health experts security experts insurance I mean the conversation is very vast I think on questions like Should there be metal detectors because students are going to back up out in the cold I mean those are kind of operational decisions that make a lot of sense but that's not really what's at the crux of this the crux of it is having these plans in place that can protect students and that's what school boards are really good at doing that may include some student input but overall that's going to be made but in consultation with a whole bunch of experts in the community Gina in Merritt Island Florida emailed I have a child in elementary and middle schools the culture of the state in our country is hyper militant and turns to violence including firearms for everything it is a health safety issue parents of children here are afraid of reactions from our community more guns is the sheriff's answer who wants all citizens to carry firearms concealed carry etc I am a nurse and understand a lot of problems can trigger unreasonable behavior so having these weapons so readily available and. Civil is upsetting and Rachel in Indianapolis e-mailed why aren't we talking about toxic masculinity Boy use mainly white boys are doing the shooting why aren't we helping boys develop healthy power healthy leadership and healthy relationships on the I know we've got to move on in just a 2nd but where do you see this conversation going nationally kind of what's the next step in this or is this just going to slow down until another school gets shot up no I don't think it is I think that districts around the country have been really looking seriously at all the components that make schools safe not only safe but how to deal with behavior with discipline and this also dovetails with social and emotional goals that many schools and states frankly have put into place so the debate that we're having right now is can you have a school that is fair that feels safe that has responsive to students in trauma and that responsibly havior with clear consequences but not in a way that feels militarized and you know it's a difficult needle to thread there's always issues and when something you know so horrifying and violent comes up it's very hard not to pay attention to that but you know district leaders really need to balance all of these concerns that's n.p.r. Education reporter on your comments on your thanks for talking to us thank you and Francisco and they go on Junior chief legal officer for the National School Board Association thanks Francisco My pleasure coming up a look at a shocking report about allegations of what's going on in 6 Catholic diocese in Pennsylvania how did hundreds of priests abuse more than a 1000 children for decades and not get caught stay clips. More than half of a. Company's. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from math Naisi I'm committed to changing lives through math by building math achievement problem solving and critical thinking skills for thousands of students every day in 900 franchise locations math Naisi and dot com slash n.p.r. From Cancer Treatment Centers of America offering immunotherapy and other personalized treatment options to address patients individual needs more about precision cancer treatment Cancer Center dot com. And from Americans for the Arts before we get to our next story we'd love your help with the next part of our education series and rolled tomorrow will look at for profit colleges they offer students a flexible way to get an education but critics say their higher prices and predatory practices can leave vulnerable populations with lots of debt if you attended a for profit college what was your experience did you graduate if so did that degree lead to a job and how much debt did you have to deal with Leave us a voicemail 855-236-1818 now maybe you worked at a for profit school what did you learn from working there tell us your story 855236181 egg or use our new app one a vox pop to send us a radio quality audio file and to keep up to date on future topics we'll share some of your stories tomorrow on one a. A new report from a Pennsylvania grand jury outlines a stunning level of sex abuse in 6 of Pennsylvania's Catholic dioceses it lists more than 300 so-called predator priests accused of abusing more than a 1000 children some consider this investigation in what one of the most comprehensive yet into Catholic Church sex abuse in the u.s. And the results are highly disturbing fair warning we may be getting into some of those more graphic details in the conversation ahead now justice for the survivors is unlikely the report reads quote almost every instance of abuse we found is too old to be prosecuted unquote This follows the resignation of Washington D.C.'s former archbishop after allegations that he sexually abused adults and minors for decades Cardinal Theodore McCarrick was one of the church's leading voices he resigned last month from the College of Cardinals one of the 1st resignations in more than 90 years one survivor Todd Frye told that grand jury in Pennsylvania he was abused at age 13 by a priest in Lancaster County Mr Fry's 50 years old now he says he told church and law enforcement officials over the years but nothing was done this report is his 1st chance to see if that priest has been accused of abusing anyone else and who knew about it so why is the Catholic Church struggled to deal with these allegations and what would justice look like for the survivors Father Tom Reese is the author of Inside the Vatican the politics and organization of the Catholic Church He's also a senior analyst for religion news Father Reese welcome to want to say. I wish I could say it was going to be us you know this report is so horrifying. It's just awful man I hear you and I don't even know where to where to start I wish I could say that the report was shocking except for the scope of it what's the reaction been like in the larger Catholic community as you've seen it to this report growth the reaction is is devastating. Some of us like myself who have been following this crisis since 1985 that's more than 30 years. You know just wish that. We did not have to continue to. To read this kind of material but I think it's good that this kind of stories get out because for one reason it's good to have it out because it encourages other victims of abuse to come forward one of the things that we have learned is that the victims of abuse normally think that they're unique that this didn't happen to anybody else and therefore they don't tell people about it but when stories like this come out people feel empowered they realize that they weren't the only on the issues and they feel empowered to come up to tell their story to get help and this is very important for the victims of abuse talk about how the Catholic Church is leadership particularly Pope Francis have been dealing with this many people have praised Pope Francis for being somewhat progressive he's promised to take decisive action on abusers in the church there are critics who say that prayer and penance are not enough how do we view Pope Francis's role today. Say in dealing with all of this well a year ago I would have been critical of Pope Francis. Because although he accepted the policy put in by Pope Benedict 0 tolerance for any abuse by priests that's been the policy in the United States sense 2002 and other words any priest who is involved with abuse even one minor is no longer allowed to be a priest stand in the Catholic Church can no longer act as priests and that is the policy that was put into place in 2002 The problem however was that. We didn't have a process for dealing with bishops with bishops who didn't do their job for bishops who covered up for bishops who. You know did not remove peace priests from dentistry for Paris ships' it didn't do their job and follow the policies that now are in place. Pope Francis now has put has shown that he is taking this seriously and is acting against bishops who don't do their job in Chile for example just 3 said The late. Pope Francis demanded the resignations of all that this ships and Chile because they were doing such a bad job in dealing with if you use a priest this is what we need 0 tolerance for any abuse and 0 tolerance for any pitch ship who doesn't do his job you we heard from one abuse victim who shared his story with N.P.R.'s Morning Edition earlier this week here is part of what he said who at the time I don't think I would realize but you know I was being groped I was being touched in places where you you know normally wouldn't allow that my 1st feeling was for this kid and I cried and I prayed that. That this young man wouldn't be alone. And that's why it's time for one of the victims who shared his story on N.P.R.'s Morning Edition Father Reese what sense do you get that the victims coming forward is driving this push for accountability how much of it I don't know I've done a so I need a percentage but how much of it do you think is the Catholic Church of its own initiative taking action and how much of it do you think is the church being pushed by victims sharing their story it is extraordinarily important. For the church to listen to the victims of abuse this is that one of the biggest mistakes that the bishops in the past May. They were told by their lawyers by their insurance companies don't talk to the victims don't talk to their parents. If you do that you'll be in trouble this was really stupid because you know unless you've listened to the victims of the abuse should can't really help them and secondly unless you listen to victims of abuse you don't really understand how awful. The abuse impacts them you know it once you start listening to the victims of abuse your heart cannot be untouched you have to listen to them it just is ran change I guess I want to hear but I guess Father Reese what if there is wonder if what I'm wondering is would the church be taking action if the victims were not coming forward in such numbers I mean do you think that there is initiative within the Catholic Church on its own to do something about this or is the is the constant coming out with these stories kind of what's what's fueling this that the Catholic Church really feel motivated to. This Well I mean. I think what it's important to realize is that as I said I've been following the story for 30 years. And like Affleck church has changed over time it's changed over time because victims did come forward and the church began to listen to victims of abuse the bishops before in 1985 did a terrible job in dealing with the abuse between 198-592-1992 many you know the the church began to learn and do a better job but it wasn't until 2002 that that to church Institute as 0 tolerance for dealing with the abuse of. Children. Partially because they were getting bad advice as late as 1992 psychologists were telling them that priests who were underwent treatment could be safely returned to ministry now it's not absolutely not snowing so it was not until we heard the stories of abuse from victims. That the church really changed let me get to a few of your comments as we continue our conversation with Father Thomas Reese a senior analyst for religion news and the author of Inside the Vatican the politics and organization of the Catholic Church. Sober l.l.c. In Cincinnati tweeted sexual abuse in the Catholic Church is not shocking this is the story of the Catholic Church Let's stop acting surprised and put real measures in place to end this all too common story quite a few of you have also commented on what you consider the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church in this regard Kurt is listening in Byron Illinois and Kurt emailed I am tired of the Catholic Church and its clergy lecturing us on morality when it comes to abortion issues and death with dignity while their clergy is abusing children or covering up for abusers they should clean their own house before lecturing the rest of us about our houses were about to have a 5 vote Catholic majority on the Supreme Court I do not want some of the issues of the day decided through the lens of their Catholic backgrounds for indeed justice is not blind Erin emailed it is beyond frustrating to hear of the chronic abuse that's been occurring still occurring and actively being covered up by the Catholic Church yet the idea of having women priests is still seen as unthinkable so much hypocrisy and corruption is instilled into the Catholic church bureaucracy and no accountability this is why I am no longer a practicing Catholic Father Reese do we see a practical effect of this kind of scandal where you know do I believe it was Jesus who said Don't complain about the speck in your neighbor's eye when you've got a board sticking out of yours and the church doesn't seem to be following that very basic teaching of Christ which is to deal with your own drama before you judge other people is this affecting the church laity the church body the the health of the Catholic Church Absolutely there's no question about that. I think that the bishops have lost any credibility. On anything so. People. Until people see them doing what they're supposed to do and that he is making sure that no child has used. Today things are much different than they were in the past the church requires that any accusations of abuse be reported to the police a media play the church requires that any priest accused of abuse that has a credible accusation of abuse must be removed from ministry while an investigation takes place if the accusation is substantiated that priests must be removed from ministry permanently he can never act as a priest again in order to work in a Catholic institution with children whether it's a parish or a church or a school you have to undergo a police background check. Children and workers in Catholic institutions now have. Received training and the recognition and reporting requirements of the buz. They didn't do this in the past. This is the problem. They do it today and we have to make sure that these policies are implemented are enforced in art done Jeff emailed I don't think I've ever heard of fear your explanation for why this widespread child abuse by religious figure seems limited to Catholic priests is there something about the culture of the Catholic priesthood that draws or produces these bad apples I've not heard of examples involving other religions Father Reese. Well I'm yet the last thing I wanted to use is be critical of the really Germans but just because Go to Google and. Put their name man and you will find plenty of cases of. Problems around sexuality in other churches other institutions it's not just churches in Pennsylvania course we had Penn State Public Schools and teachers and coaches this you know this is an epidemic indeed in the United States we have to have up a policies and procedures that it that deal with every institution in our country so that children are protected before we got to let you go I wonder where you see this going in the future what is it going to take for the church to heal from this to maintain trust with the faithful to rebuild trust with the skeptical to to make amends What do you think it's going to take before we got to go well for the 1st thing it has to do is implement the policies and procedures that have been in place and to fire any bishop who does not do that. That has to be done then I think every bishop in the country hast to invite victims of abuse to come forward and to put us and to set aside time to listen to them and share their stories if the bishop is willing to do that yet a quick and get another job. This you know we have to do whatever we can to help victims of abuse in their healing we have to apologize apologize apologize and not politics eyes. And make sure that this never never happens again. Well the grand jury report is out there only a handful of cases that can be prosecuted under the existing laws will be interesting to see where those cases do go Father Tom Reese is the author of Inside the Vatican the politics and organization of the Catholic Church and also a senior analyst for religion news Father Reese we appreciate your time thanks for talking to us I'm again I. Wish I could say it was good to be with you I hear that for sure thank you very much though remember you can connect with us about upcoming episodes and debates online at the one a dot org click on ask one a that's also where you can download our new app one a vox pop that's the one a dot org this program comes to you from w. Am you part of American University in Washington distributed by n.p.r. Until we meet again I'm Joshua Johnson thank you so much for listening this is one a. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Subaru featuring the outback with standard symmetrical all wheel drive and standard Subaru Starlink multimedia with Apple car play an Android Auto integration keeps drivers connected Murrett Subaru dot com from c 3 I o t powering enterprise digital transformation with artificial intelligence predictive analytics and Io t. Solutions learn more at c 3 i.o.t. Dot Ai and from the listeners who support this n.p.r. Station. For profit colleges have a mixed record they do a better job than most of getting students past the finish line the teach a 10th of all undergrads but account for half of student loan defaults now the u.s. Department of Education wants to scrap the rules to force for profit colleges to prove that their students get good jobs will find out why next time on one day. We're. This is festival notes Good morning I'm Chris more for Aspen Public Radio the official voice of the Aspen music festival in school today is Wednesday August 15th violin superstar Sarah Chang will be joined by violinist Katherine Roux and a festival ensemble for 3 beautiful works tonight at $830.00 and Harrah's concert hall Tchaikovsky's love letter to a city where he spent some of his happiest days the string sextet souvenir of Florence opens up the program Next up will be Wagners a love letter to his wife close Imma presented as a birthday present on Christmas morning after the birth of their son sick freed and wrapping up the evening is box sublime to Violin Concerto with its tender and poignant slow movement Patrick Summers leads the Aspen Philharmonic Orchestra and its final concert of the season tonight at 6 and Benedict music tend Here's your pants 1st Piano Concerto with his glittering solo part a world premier by Aspen conducting fellow Crist's Aus and us and Gershwin's jazz a celebration of the City of Light an American in Paris Julian Martin will give a piano master class this morning at 10 in Harris' concert hall today's high notes the new new peppy auditorium features a m.f.s. President and c.e.o. Alan Fletcher seraphic fire coral ensemble director Patrick Du Pree Quigley and pianist. They'll talk about the Aug 17th Aspen Chamber Symphony program over Val's Piano Concerto in g. And the Mozart Requiem admission is free and the discussion will be broadcast tomorrow or 2 here on.
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