>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy anything and who doesn't have kids. definitely i have noticed it connected my part of
>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy
we can pull all that together, then we've got it. >> it's as much about social and economic justice -- in fact it's more about social and economic justice than just >> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy anything and who doesn't have kids. definitely i have noticed it connected my part of hayes value which is an admittedly yuppie part. to the number of kids coming
>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy anything and who doesn't have kids. definitely i have noticed it connected my part of hayes value which is an admittedly
moving west. what is interesting about it is the image of lewis and clark here is in black and white, something that is occurring in the future, painted as though it was in the past. what is interesting about it is the very obvious conclusion of slavery. the number of students were expressing unease around some of the themes. the additional mural would be placed in the school, one with more positive representation of the student body. in 1974, they completed three panels that were placed in the library -- in the lobby. they depict native, latino, asian american, and african- american heritage and culture. >> that artist was talking about the history coming alive. that is what we want for the students here. i also think they might share that with past alumni and the community, so they could no the treasure that we have here in the schools. many people have the same experience i did when i first walked into this building three years ago, being the new principal. the grandeur of these murals is fantastic. many of the students who have come here have come here and are very proud of these murals. they're so happy that they're still here and are being preserved. >> to learn more about the civic art collection, visit >> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden
>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy anything and who doesn't have kids. definitely i have noticed it connected my part of hayes value which is an admittedly yuppie part. to the number of kids coming over from western addition as school groups to
>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy anything and who doesn't have kids. definitely i have noticed it connected my part of hayes value which is an admittedly yuppie part. to the number of kids coming over from western addition as school groups
comments, colleagues or discussion, the meeting is now adjourned. have a good rest of the day. >> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does
>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre. there are a few proposals but said just under an there are numerous community gardens that are under an acre. >> i was curious. who initiated the president ordinance as has been proposed? >> it was initiated by the mayor and supervisor. >> thank you. if we have no other questions from the commissioners i would like to make it open up for public comment. >> at this time the commission will take public comment. once all of the cards are read if you would like to speak you can lineup on the sidewall. apologies if i get your name wrong. >> i will read a little statement i wrote. it might not be under two minutes. little city gardens is a farm in mission terrace neighborhood. our goal is to be successful and provide a model for urban farming. we cannot only support ourselves as farmers but ignite important conversation busy sustainable food systems, active in the community and contribute to small businesses like grocery stores, restaurants and farmers market. urban farming is a vital piece to recreating a healthy food system. we believe that urban farming businesses are well suited to all zoning districts. it can beautify and add value to all neighborhoods. by eliminating blight, inviting neighbors to enjoy time out together. in order to foster urban farm businesses the city must implement new zoning code that does not make it expensive to begin. little city gardens strongly recommends that the business commission endorse the legislation. we recommend that the commission support three amendments put forward by the san francisco urban agriculture alliance. for a business like ours decorative fencing would be an extra expense. to impose expensive fencing regulations puts an unfair burden on the farmer who may only use the land for the short-term. we do not know if we will succeed. we know in order to succeed we have to employ marketing strategies. one technique that would be useful is to process it into value added goods. not only cell cucumbers but sell pickles. over the past six months we have grown hundreds of pounds of produce but haven't been able to sell. >> good evening commissioners. first i wanted to thank the planning commission for bringing this legislation forward and for you to hear us tonight. we are currently engaged in a study of presidio school of management we already know access to land and use of land is one of the largest barriers. the code will go a long way to solving the issues. as noted by many people the fencing requirement could negatively affect many projects currently operating. hayes valley farm has fencing that would not meet this requirement. i suggest an alternate model for this code for projects zoned to allow their decorative fencing to be covered by plant materials. very attractive. fits with the project's overall goals and can be afforded by the projects as well. the fact that most of these gardens and projects will exist on borrowed land creates two problems in that likely they won't be able to forward large site improvement, major site changes and may not be able to gain position offering the use of the site for free to make major site improvements as well. i am also interested in working with the other departments to discover an answer for the issue on value added project. i know he currently works with certified california farmers market and they have code describing what constitutes value added and also enforce that. that would be an easy solution. thank you. >> thank you. >> i am one of the cocoordinators of the urban agriculture alliance. we are a group with more than 30 members, mix of practitioners and urban farmers. all volunteer group. we have a number of business members. i think the biggest message i would like to send is that we would like your support for the zoning measure. they have put a lot of time into crafting a proposal that fits well for san francisco and we would very much appreciate the business commission support of it. to talk briefly about the three amendments, the first two, the permit fees and the fencing requirements we wrote about it in the letter. it is really about reducing the entry for a noncommercial garden, and lowering the barriers by reducing or waiving permit fees and not requiring expensive fencing if a garden wants a fence. the third part is value added and pooled produce will open up the businesses to thrive and explore new possibilities. it would also put san francisco at the leading edge of thinking about how gardens fit into the local economy. i would love to answer any of the questions you have. we would very much appreciate your support. have a great valentines day. >> any further public comment? >> i am actually here for another item but i live half a block from the hayes valley farm. i moved in before i knew the farm would happen. i would have to say since the farm has been created the process of the creation and the existence so far dramatically improved the quality of life in the neighborhood. i say it as someone who does not volunteer on site. i haven't had a chance to buy anything and who doesn't have kids. definitely i have noticed it connected my part of hayes value which is an admittedly yuppie part. to the number of kids coming over from western addition as school groups to volunteer. i feel it stitches hayes valley into the broader communities around it. for
>> members of the public, please turn your cellphone is too silent or turn them off completely so you do not disrupt the meeting during your -- the meeting. the meeting is now a call to order a. [roll-call] president o'brien, we have quorum. >> next item you're a good >> item #2 recognizes and alan parker for her work in the office of the workforce development. >> i would like to ask ellen parker to join me common -- to join me, and i would like you to know she was recommended by a distinct businesses. -- by eight distinct businesses during the commission is proud to acknowledge the contributions helen parker has made to the san francisco small business community through her work on a program. her economic not work goes through coordinating efforts such as through the arch what, and has improved the business climate and -- through art walk, and has improved the climate on the st.. she is also recognized for her other projects, including an working on revitalization in the mid market area of. ellen knows how to get things done, so congratulations, and if you would like to say a few words. >> thank you very much. [applause] thank you. >> item #3, approval of the minute meetings drafted january, 2000 alive and. -- 2011. >> a motion to approve the ninnis raided the ninnis -- to approve the minutes. >> second. commissioner o'brien: we do not need a roll call for this? >> not unless there are any objections. >> no objections three your >> next item is general public comments. disallows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new -- this allows members of the public to comment generally and to suggest new items for the agenda. >> do we have any comments for items not on the agenda? seeing none, next item. >> items 5 and 6 have been switched at the request of supervisors, so we will begin with item six, a discussion of possible actions to make recommendations for the planning code urban agriculture. this is important relating to urban agriculture uses. we have a presentation by the director of climate change initiative. in your binder is several documents including the ordinance as well as the letter sent to you. also, i have two additional documents. one is an executive order dated 2009, and the other is included in the planning commission packet i sent to you the other day. >> i am the director of climate change initiatives. thank you for the opportunity to present to you today in superior -- to you today. the proposed ordinance is certainly the longest ordinance i have ever seen that you have before you. it was introduced as an outgrowth of the executive director you have before you. this directive also the department' junes to foster -- departments to foster local food production -- this directive urges the department to foster local food production. one was to reduce environmental impact, to create new uses for land in the city, and to foster green jobs, so there are key issues, out of which the ordinance cayman -- came. i states the san franciscans planning department integrates policies to support san francisco's food policy goes into elements in the general plan wherever they are outdated, and the other is section they -- a on the third page. they will conduct an audit for food-producing gardens and other agricultural purposes. i would like to introduce diego sanchez, who can walk you through the specifics, and we would be happy to answer any questions following that. >> i am presenting a proposed ordinance to amend the planning code within the city. the ordinance seeks to clarify the intensity of light of the taser while consolidating the current array of uses -- the intensity of uses well consult region while consolidating. it seeks to apply categories across all the streets, creating consistency. the planning code sites multiple uses, and certain categories are referenced while others are not superior and -- are not. the new uses are neighborhood arboriculture and urban industrial and agricultural. the sow abuse is the less intensive, characterized by a veejay and one is less intensive -- one is less intensive. if sensing is used -- fencing is used, that there be a limited use of mechanical equipment, that any sales occur between 6:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. in the urban industrial and agricultural category is the higher of the two, and it is categorized as being greater than 1 acre. for both of these categories, only limited sales and donations grown on site are allowed under the urban and agricultural use category. they propose it be used thrall districts and that urban industrial and agricultural require use in all zoning districts of the industrial district where it is permitted. we received dozens of letters and phone calls regarding the proposed ordinance. i would like to boil down the elimination of a change of use, and allowing the sale of goods and produce from various sites to be sold on a residential site. the planning department agrees but eliminating fees would set and on president -- of president reagan's region would set -- would set a precedent. we would like to keep it consistent superior -- to keep it consistent superior -- keep it consistent. it should be cooled to escalate to a level that would create excessive disturbance. the planning department is open to creative solutions, and we are moving forward with an open mind. we have also contacted the planning department regarding the ordinance superior -- the ordinance. it would reduce the water system and increase water use related to the expansion of urban agriculture throughout san francisco. good i would like to talk about controlled substances. this does not alter any regulations of controlled substances. growing controlled substances continues to be reviewed, so the proposed ordinance try to the appropriate balance of intensity and neighborhood -- the proposed ordinance applies the appropriate balance of intensity. further to facilitate small- scale agriculture in all zoning districts. the department means the local food production in san francisco. that concludes my presentation, and i am available to answer any questions. >> thank you for about. do we go to public comments first? >> commissioners first. >> any questions, commissioners? >> i have a question about the produce on site. excuse me. i have a question about produce on site. is it possible to specify the fell you added concerns in -- that value-added goods could be sold if created by produce grown in san francisco and they are manufactured in san francisco. they could be on site and manufactured in san francisco and then be allowed. >> we are open to these ideas. our concern is if we are trying to regulate land use, it would be difficult to determine how much content was grown in san francisco. we are concerned about how to regulate outside of land use. i am not sure the planning department is set up to evaluate they could, etc. we are always looking for creative solutions to the problems triggered >> the health department is going to have to weigh in as well, so the fans in requirement is also an issue -- a fencing requirement is also an issue. you say they are not required, but if they are used, they have to comply to guidelines. can you outline what those are? >> yes, i can. give me a second. i can give him on the screen so i can read and to you. what would you prefer? >> i think you have to read them. i cannot read them. >> i believe this was husked last year. it was applied citywide, and it says of decorative metal fence that gives the appearance of the raw iron but excludes barbwire, chain-link fences may be used if the fencing is bordered by a mails on the top and bottom and has columns of the hour at least 8 inches wide and are topped with caps -- that are at least 8 inches wide and are topped with calves. the planning department feels we should maintain consistency going forward. >> my question was related to the. -- that. how would you regulate people buying certain goods for sale versus wholesalers buying the goods and reselling su them? are the repercussions, or does it matter? >> i am not sure if you're a good idea not know it would regulate fact -- i am not sure. , production can you get out of a small hot -- how much production can you get out of a small hot? >> some of them are pretty large. >> i do not think we would regulate other than being a resident of the lot or the operator of zero community garden -- of a community garden. >> are there further questions? >> how many farms are in the city in alabama -- in the city and? >> i and aware of a small handfuls. we do not have an exact tally of how many urban and agricultural uses there are. we could begin to compile the data to create a consistent use categories throughout the security of >> you mentioned there are not too many one-acre farms in the city. >> there are some, but there are not seen in a. -- not many. >> is it fenced? >> i believe the site was always sensed -- fenced. >> alamegny farm, is it fenced? >> i do not know. >> have you had any complaints of neighbors or residents in the area of those farms? >> not those firms. i did received one letter about aesthetics and traffic about not allowing this to go forward. >> those operations that are not small have been complaints-free? >> i do not work in code enforcement, so i would not be on the receiving end of those complaints. i have not received a complaint about those sites. >> thank you. >> any other questions, commissioners? of the total activity in the city, you mentioned two categories one was industrial- sized and the other was neighborhood-sized. do we have over presence in both categories in the city? >> i know we definitely have sites greater than and a current. -- than an acre.