Empirical Testing News Today

Anonymous, bill wilson. joining me now, dr. robbie ludwig, and gabby glazer who wrote that provocative piece. great to have you both here. >> thank you. >> i thought the piece was fascinating. theres some parallel reporting thats gone on about heroin addiction. whats the general thrust here? >> the general thrust is that we dont know -- we dont have numbers for how aa works. we have anecdotal evidence for it, which is the narrative that it worked for your uncle, it worked for your grandfather, t...

>> the co-founder of alcoholics anonymous, bill wilson. great to have you both here. >> thank you. >> i thought the piece was fascinating. theres some parallel reporting thats gone on about heroin addiction. whats the general thrust here? >> the general thrust is that we dont know -- we dont have numbers for how aa works. we have anecdotal evidence for it which is the narrative that it worked for your uncle, it worked for your grandfather, therefore, it works. but we dont actually have a success...