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barking dog and that appears to be what alerted the hostage's captors to what was going on. during the firefight that then followed, u.s. forpdss saw a militant go into the shack where the hostages were being held. it is believed that is when he shot both of the hostages, both of them died as a result of those injuries, as u.s. forces were transporting them away. u.s. intelligence did not know the identity of the other hostage being held with somers. he has since been identified as south african teacher pierre korkie. a char that worked with korkie says he was due to be released today. to discuss this and many of the other top stories for the week, joined by our panel, bring in democratic strategist basil smythe, jr., political consultant and former adviser to mitt romney, cater packer gauge and msnbc correspondent, casey packer hunt. obviously on this hostage story, we are learning the details, obviousiously a heartbreaking story, another report i know in the new york times this morning that apparently the south
african who was being held about this american, this charitable group he worked with saying it had reached a dell for his freedom and obviously, that was destroyed by all this, too. another piece in it as well. just goes to show you i think that there was a failed mission a couple of weeks ago. all of these captors that isis has right now, the attempts to get them out, just -- how difficult it is to get any of these people back. >> and the obama administration has announced that they are going to review u.s. hostage policy, in part, because they have faced some criticism from the families of the people who have been held hostage and ultimately killed by isis and other groups much the one thing that the americans say they are not gonna change is whether or not they will pay ransom for a hostage and it sounds like from that preliminary reporting from the "new york times" that the south african group had actually paid a ransom or had been willing to and that he was set to be release and that you know, we didn't know that, the americans didn't know that when they went in. >> and all these isis stories, so many europeans held, yet
these european governments, a lot of them don't admit it publicly, but privately, they pay the ransons and they get their people out. here of in the united states -- talked about the policy before, from the standpoint, wouldn't want to pay ran as soon as, the issues of the families, hey if the government doesn't want to pay it fine, can't i raise the money, can't i get my kid out, get my sop, my dur out? >> right. and there are legal issues there as well, but it's hard to tell a family that you cannot do that. it should be noted that as failed missions are not unusual, unfortunately, it goes took at least 1980 a mission in iran to free the hostages. are they changing tactics, not killed hostages before in this way. are they changing their tactic that may suggest we need to as well? >> if it's a response to isis. >> i think it does speak to a
as the san francisco chronicle reports, minutes before the police disbursed the crowd, several concerts let out downtown, several concert gears waiting to neigh a nearby parking garage were sent running for cover. president obama this morning talking with b.e.t. net workers about this recent unrest in america. >> as painful as these incidents are, we can't equate what is happening now to what was happening 50 years ago and if you talk to parents, grandpar t grandparents, uncles, they will tell you that, you know, things are better, not good in some cases but better. typically, progress is in steps, it's in increments, you know, you're dealing with something as deeply rooted as racism or bias in any society, you got to have vigilance but recognize that it's going to take some time and you just have to be steady. >> that full interview, by the
way, will air tomorrow night, 6 p.m. on b.e.t. basil, considering the president's role in all of this, the ferguson, decision no to go forward with the case was announced by the grand jury out there now, about two weeks ago, the president was on television within ten minutes. how have you assessed his leadership through this? >> i do think his leadership has been fine, he has been measured and i know there are some on the left that don't like that and conservatives don't like that's -- what they would say meddling in local matters. i think he has absolutely struck the right tone. what should be note it had is an be a sect failure of branches of government, particularly the judicial system and i think what -- what needs to happen going forward is that the president should, i know there is a federal investigation, should address the -- the actual issue here which are failures in criminal justice. this is going to impact also his nominee, loretta lynch, to the attorney general post. i know that she is gonna get significant questions on how she
would go forward on some of these issues, but i think his tone was appropriate. i think he handled it fine. but we are waiting to see what's gonna happen with the federal investigation. >> loretta lynch angle on this is really interesting, casey, because she is as the u.s. attorney for this district involved in this case now, obviously, if she becomes the attorney general, potentially involved in anything that doj is doing. so, that just means this -- the decision is made here on whether federal charges had brought against garner is going to intersect with the confirmation politics in the senate. do we have a sense of how that is going to play out? >> absolutely, steph. i think the one thing that distinguishes ferguson, for example, from the garner case is you saw a remarkable amount of unity coming out of capitol hill saying there maybe a miscarriage of justice in this situation. i think the facts in the ferguson case have been much more sort of muddled and argued over. there are people who feel, you know, strongly that the police officer maybe acted in good faith. i think in this particular case, because of the video and because of the evidence that we had,
everyone on capitol hill that i spoke to was pretty shocked that this came down the way it did and i think that while it can -- it has the potential to throw a wrench into her confirmation process, i think unless something particularly inflammatory happens with the investigation, there's nobody out there yet who is saying that pushing harder on this is gonna cause a problem for her. >> interesting, too loretta lynch, she -- political jobs in a way, she knows how to play politics and she has made alliances with people you might not expect, like rudy giuliani, for instance, very supportive. >> she came into it in a very strong position as well. when she was first announced, there was very little opposition to her, which is gonna help her in the long run. >> one of the reasons she was picked. let me ask you this, obviously, we have seen some of the initial polling after ferguson and what struck me about the polling after ferguson, we talked about this in the show a little bit yesterday, it really kind of hues to this basic partisan divide we see on almost any question and sort of the predictable groups go republican have one view of it the predictable groups that go
democratic have one view.t i hear a lot of republicans saying this bothers me, too. >> haven't talked to anybody who has seen that video that suspect sort of shocked by what took place and feel like -- feels like there was just an overwhelming amount of violence in that situation that gives people pause. but not everything is a partisan issue. what there hasn't been a lot of talk about is the media's role in all of. this the fact of the matter is the protesters shall the people talking on either side of it, they don't have all of the information that these grand juries have offered to them. s's a little bit unfair to be second-guessing after the fact, not willing to sit down and look at the evidence -- >> the ferguson, we pretty much did get the evidence. >> we have it available. i'm saying i don't think that too many people are actually sitting down and looking at all the evidence. there's a lot of sort of
inflammatory reporting, in my opinion, that sort of gins this up and doesn't take the time to look at all the facts that are presented. and i do think that because of the video in the garper situation, it does seem much more clear but again, you still don't have all of the evidence that people are reviewing and poring over. >> but i do think what is fair and what the media has done very well is put voices on camera that are speaking to the inequities in the system and disparate treatment we are seeing in ferguson and in the eric garner case that tie those things together. look, cliven bundy is out in the west holding off federal marshals with advanced weaponry. he and his friends are standing on bridges with assault rifles pointing at u.s. maher shals but a man selling loose cigarettes gets choked to death and ten people are standing around him and are absolutely doing nothing. so, i don't think the media has
inflamed anything. i think it is -- it is incumbent upon all of us really in situations like this to bring a lot of those voices to the table and say, yes, this is -- this treatment is disproportionate it is disparate and it's wrong. but the reality is that the criminal justice system, particularly in grand juries, you mentioned that, is where we need to have some real reform. they do not get vetted like trial jurors do and i think that needs change. >> all right. mo tore get to including some interesting comments from valerie jarrett about members of the obama administration. also, the latest on that "rolling stone" story about university of virginia and rape allegations. that's next. [ female announcer ] a 3d white smile
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"rolling stone's" website right now, this morning, click on its apology for that uva rape article it is walking back from, would you find a very different letter posted there than the one the magazine first posted on friday. the magazine made major changes to that original note. the original three-paragraph one stated that "rolling stone" had "misplaced its trust in jackie, the uva student whose claims of being raped are the center piece of the article." the new updated apology letter, the magazine accepts more blame for what happened, saying, "these mistakes are on "rolling stone", not on jackie." "rolling stone" editor will dana's mig match chur is missing from the updated apology. so much to this story, "rolling stone" story, part is how they initially framed it, phrased it, like it was our mistake to trust her. we -- you know, it's your job as a magazine to fact check everybody. if you're not gonna reach out to the supposed perpetrators of
this, that is definitely on you and not her. i'm trying to figure out still what exactly went wrong here. is this a magazine that was just -- they were looking for page views, for clicks, hey, we have got something sensational here is it that? a magazine that sort of had an activist edge to this and they wanted to prove something they already -- they believed had happened without bothering -- i'm still trying to figure out exactly how something like this happens, in terms of failure on a journalism level, i can't remember something this bad recently? >> steve, i think for this subject in particular, it's a shame that this has happened in part because it is so hard for so many of these victims to come forward. you have someone, and clearly the woman at the center of this story had something terrible and traumatic happen to her. now the magazine is struggling to figure out which details line up right and which ones don't. that is up to them. every time something like this happens it sets back the overall goal of making sure victims are believed, not written off, stories are true, so much that
goes into -- feel like they can't come forward because they are not going to be believed and i think that, you know this is a major journalistic sin but as will for our community as a whole as people are trying to combat sexual assault. >> this was a story that -- i have three nieces that are on colleges campuses today and it was a story when i saw it that i immediately share ready with family members, because it sort of terrifies you. to kasie's point, i think it does setback the ability to get people to come forward. you know, there's a lot of things that are worrisome. i think that when a journalist makes a deal that they are not going to talk to the accused, i think that's a dangerous place to be. i think it's also a dangerous police to be when colleges decide that they are gonna try to handle these things internally and not turn something that's felony immediately over to law enforcement. so all of those things, you know, sort of give you pause about this. >> part of it, basil, you read how this came together, there was a point apparently in the reporting where jackie didn't
want to be part of this in i more, you know what i don't want to go down this road. "rolling stone" basically strong armed her, no, we are doing this and hey this is running either way, you want to talk to us or not, we are running this either way, that's lot on "rolling stone." >> and i think it specs to your point you hope it doesn't have a chilling effect. if a victim wants to report the story, wants to report what's happened to them, wants to go forward and talk to the police, whether the campus police are handling it or the local pd will be handling it, you don't want a situation where she's being forced to sort of come out and then not have control of the story of the details of the incident after that. and it looks like, you know, and i hope this doesn't happen, i hope that aring -- the "rolling stone" apology doesn't sort of cut off the conversation about what happened to her but you certainly don't want a chilling effect going forward. >> the university of virginia actually in their statement, i think to their credit, said, okay, well, these questions. coming out about this story but, you know what, this is still a
conversation we need to have. we still need to be focused on making sure that we limit or end sexual assaults on campus. >> for a publication like "rolling stone", too, what do they do now, a brand name in american journals and "rolling stone" around forever. >> each institution has to grapple with this. changing this apology in some ways is a red flag, how you handle this is really -- if something like this happens, how the's handled and the aftermath says a lot about the institution, what they are committed to. so i'm not sure that changing your apology and not mentioning the fact that you changed your apology was -- >> yeah, the instincts, too the first apology they ran, it was just so much like trying to push
this off, oh, we got fooled, we got hoodwinked here, something like that. that didn't look good either. >> there's a lot of these cases that occur and clearly, they gravitated toward a particularly inflammatory case because it would sell and it would cause page views and i think that's on the editorial team, you have got something so incendiary that you are, you know, crossing all the its and dotting all theisms, clearly, they didn't do that >> that was the thing that struck me reading it all the important sort of institutional questions about uv a, its response, the response of colleges to all of this, they are in this arm and there are important things to be raised. almost as if they said, you know what that's not gonna get the page views what is gonna get the page views is the anecdote, we need the anecdote at the top of it, when they get into trouble and raising all the questions. say thanks to, bass the spikele, jr., katie packer gains. kasie will be with us later. and anger over one of
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in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra. it's part of the ritual of washington that when the president nominates someone for a key post in his administration, the sniping about that nominee begins on capitol hill immediately. so, in november, immediately after president obama nominated a man named antonio weiss for the position of undersecretary of the treasury, the blowback started, but here's the twist. the blowback was and is being led by a democrat, by a member of the president's own party. and not just any democrat either, it was massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, who is now representing progressives as part of the democratic leadership in the senate as well as the person who created a wall street watchdog agency at the president's behest. so, that's why warren is upset about the nomination, she believes that the nominee, antonio weiss, is too cozy with wall street. she also accuses him of engineering in his role as the
head of the american banking firm lazzard that a deal, in affect, made burger king a canadian company, there by shielding it from millions of u.s. tax obligations. warren's attacks on weiss are now drawing fire as well, most notably, from andrew ross sorkin of cnc and "the new york times." he is defending weiss and he calls warren's opposition misdirected, saying her understanding of the burger king deal is misinformed. elizabeth warren has pogued herself as the democratic party's leading crusader against wall street. now she is making this a test for her party. will they stand with her and stop the weiss nomination or should they even do that? here to discuss is msnbc contributor jared bernstein, who is also a senior fellow at the center of budget and policy pries and was vice president -- president obama's chief economic adviser and lenore pal dean know, economist and vice president of policy and outreach at the liberal think tank, demost. thank you for joining us. lenore, let me start with you.
the case against weiss this is a member of the president's party, campaigned for obama's re-election, done work on the issue of raising taxes on the wealthy to combat inequality, why is that a bad choice for this position? >> so i think we have to step become and look what the this position actually is. it is somebody at treasury who deals with domestic finance and the implementation of dodd frank, i think two qualifications we need. one is someone who has deep experience with domestic regulation and the other is somebody who is independent from wall street, somebody who is going to be willing to disagree with them and i think that -- >> does he have regulatory experience? >> not that i'm aware of. he is a corporate m & a guy. his experience is really in international corporate business mergers and also this $21 million payout he is getting from lazzard to go into public service that really calls into question independence from wall street. >> okay, jared, that is the case against. what do you make of that? >> i think both lenore and senator warren make a lot of good points. i think, from my own experience,
it really matters a lot who's in the room when you're making economic policy at this level. however, i think they are different rooms, for this. radio, for the undersecretary of domestic finance, i think it's helpful to have someone with the kind of market experience that antonio weiss brings to the table. lenore didn't mention one of the most important parts of the job, that's managing the stock of our national debt, $17 trillion in debt that this undersecretary has to be sure to finance in a way that's highly efficient. if you look at this guy's career, he has spent decades in international markets dealing with global finance. in fact, it's hard for me to realize, and i -- i would argue that senator warren has failed to really name a person who would be appropriate in this position who doesn't have this kind of market background and experience. >> jared, is it a concern to you, no experience unless -- no experience in terms of
regulation, no regulatory experience? >> well, in fact, if you're sitting across the table doing mergers and acquisition and the kinds of advice that lazzard provides to firms, you know a lot about where those skeletons are buried. what really matters in this position, somebody with regulatory ex-peer enwhy, hard pressed to find many in this kind of position who had that kind of experience and that they have the kind of sensibility that senator warren is looking for. and here, i know antonio weiss a little bit and he actually is very much in favor of the kind of rigorous oversight that senator warren and frankly myself think is important. we shouldn't judge him just on the basis of this wall street kind of label that's been attached. >> lenore is there an argument to be made, i wonder what you make of the argument that because he is so close to wall street, because that's his background, because he knows so closely, so intimately how it works it would put him in position to sort of know the trick, to know, hey if this is the regulation this is the
workaround they are going to tray to come up. you want somebody like that, sort of like at the casinos, they hire the guy that knew how to beat the game, beat the house, hire him for security. is there an an analogy there? >> i think it is about the mix of regulators enough treasury and we know how much that ineffective financial regulation led to the last crisis, i don't know antonio weiss. i'm sure's very smart guy and could do a good job. the question is really who would be the best person for this position at this time. >> do you have -- so do you have somebody else? jared was thinking -- >> i don't. but i think there's a number of other consumer advocates, financial regulatory experts, people who have really been in the sausage making, in and around treasury for a long time who would be great fits for the position. >> let me make a point about that, steve, you know, it's important to recognize that mr. weiss, as an undersecretary, will be working under the deputy secretary, sarah bloom rasken. this is someone who has a long history of consumer advocacy and someone who senator warren
really championed and recognized as really -- i think the type of regulate they're both lenore and i recognize is important to have up there, that's basically going to be mr. weiss's boss, if he is confirmed, and she will be driving the regulatory train. that makes me feel a little better about. this >> here is one thing, jerry, my impression from afar watching elizabeth warren in this, also interested in making a statement and having the democratic party make a statement that a democratic party that's had such a close relationship with wall street and wall street that caused so much pain in people's lives the last decade, using this as an opportunity to tell people, you know what, we are looking away from wall street for a change. suspect there an argument to be made for doing it symbolically? >> it is a great argument. half of my article was completely underscoring that argument. let me tell you something from the inside that i think is very important and really isn't part of that argument. when i worked for the obama administration as an economist and we were trying to craft dodd frank and dealing with the recession and recovery act, the
folks on the other side of my progressive/warn/lenore kind of arguments were not necessarily people with wall street experience. i'm not going to name names but the folks that i was arguing against often didn't come from wall street. so, you know, that kind of a litmus test may not be really what's warranted here, no pun intended. >> lenore, final word on this. >> i think we have to look at what would be the best fit for this position at this time and i don't think antonio weiss is it. >> all right. to be continued on this one. my thanks to lenore paladino from demoss, jared bernstein, center of budget and policies. appreciate you joining us this morning. thank you. over a decade since the debut of the bush doctrine and this week, we have a preview of the jeb bush doctrine. we will dissect it. that's next. alright, so this tl arthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain.
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jeb bush's biggest liability may be his last name, and that is because of george w. bush, chaos in iraq that dragged down george w. bush's approval rating, the poisonous depths in second term as president and haunted his legacy since. on tuesday, jeb bush, now eyeing a 2016 presidential bid of his own, delivered a 20-minute speech some are describing as the jeb bush doctrine. a meeting of the anti-castro u.s. cuba democracy pac in south florida, bush laid out what he thinks america's role in the world should be. >> we need to have a policy not of unilateralism, although no option should ever be taken off the table. both our country and our president should never negotiate in advance any kind of consideration, but we need a policy of engagement. >> even he's gently inched away from his brother, bush reserved his harshest criticism for president obama.
>> our allies don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us. there is no situation worse for stability and peace than that. the iron rule of superpower deterrent is mean it when you say it. >> so, how much is jeb bush really separating himself from george w. bush's foreign policy legacy? how effective will it be? joining me now is former george w. bush campaign adviser mark mckinnon, now a columnist for the daily beast and co-founder of no labels and msnbc political reporter, kasie hunt, is here with me in the studio. mark, you know this family very well and think of policy and the bushes and i think of george bush senior, the first george bush had a chance to go into baghdad, absolutely wouldn't do it the son absolutely did do it. when you look at jeb bush, which one is easy, the restraint of the father or sort of the -- let's go in there spirit of the son? >> well, probably a mix of the two. you know, first of all, when you see a governor giving a major
foreign policy speech, that's pretty clear indication that he's running. two i would say that i think people saw this speech and conservatives recognize that's, a, really serious on the policy side and very conservative, he's got his own doctrine, very much focused on central and south america and terrorism there, cyber security, so, he is really, talking about going his own way and forging his own foreign policy, but it's a real flag that's getting sear juice about >> i mean, does he believe, i was going back and looking at the speech, hard for me to say, but that idea that sort of animated his brother, animated george w. bush's presidency of just this, the power of sort of testimony mock krk k testimony mock krit testimony mock krit tizization, has he learned from thafrom that?
>> jeb bush thinks we should lean forward, lead from in front and words matter. that would be part of the jeb doctrine. >> i wonder how the republican universe looks at this, aware of the political baggage that comes with the bush name and bush foreign policy tradition, people in the republican party who still believe in it. where is the republican party now, what are they looking for when it comes to foreign policy in >> a couple things on jeb bush and certainly -- any candidacy would be cast in late of his brother and iraq. tough think about what's happened since then, namely, president obama and the raise of senator rand paul. and i think hearing from bush, our words need to mean something that is very much a reflection of the republican party's overall thinking on this president, which is he likes to say things, likes to draw red lines. red lines on syria. >> likes to not follow through. they are looking, i think, for a candidate who is -- who will
push forward with that, we are going to mean what we say. but also, with senator paul there is some significant concern on -- in those factions of the republican party, whether you want to call them neoconservative, not convince they had would call themselves neoconservative anymore, those particular people concerned about israel. >> john mccain, lindsey graham. >> sheldon adeleson a key one, some of big donors, they are looking for somebody who sounds a lot more like jeb bush than rand paul. mark is that one way to maybe interpret this, governors, when delivering foreign policy addresseses that is a pretty clear sign what they are thinking, i agree with that, lack at the con of this speech, telling the types of people in the republican party that kasie was talking about, lack, you're scared of rand paul, i can be the guy who beats rand paul? >> no question, he has firmly established himself to the right of rand paul and ted cruz, which is a real faction now on foreign policy, so this is really separating himself and also
laying down a marker that's very conservative. >> let's put this in a little bit of broader perspective, a poll that came out last week, the republican field, jeb bush, chris christie, you know, sort of running together near the top there, sometimes they throw mitt romney into these things, too, and mitt romney ends up into the lead. there was a story this week, we can also show this, from business insider this week saying romney met recently his inner circle, some emerged convinced that's running. we have been hearing this off and on, mark mckinnon what do you make of the mitt romney stuff? is this just a great smoke screen? an ego trip by a guy getting a few fremonts of press here? do you think there's any chance he runs? >> could be our adlai stevenson. i think there is a chance he could. that -- i saw that as a significant signal this week and in reality, you look at the field and he -- he thinks he could be the establishment candidate again. and you know, it's also something to be said for having run a couple of tapes, he has
got hiss down well, a good candidate, especially in the republican primaries, sitting, having to get out there and deal in the trenches, a lot of candidates. >> would he -- if jeb bush wants to run, does jeb bush sort of get right of first refusal, romney run if bush ran or only if bush doesn't? >> you know, he says he doesn't care what the bush -- what jeb bush would do. i don't think that's really true. i think if jeb bush gets in, he is going to throw a pretty wide net on the establishment money and support. >> kasie, i wonder what you make -- i saw this poll we put up there with bush at 14%, christie, 11%. we think of the bush name, we of the reputation this is the establishment guy this is the one they can all kind of rally around. i'm saying, 14% awfully -- i remember when george w. bush set out in 2000 to run in polls lick this, he was at lick 40%. you're down to 14 now for jeb bush. are we overstating the appetite that's there in the republican party for him? >> i think that, look, very early polls of the an reflection
of name recognition, the bush name is immediately gonna put you -- >> should be higher than 14, right? >> i think what it shows, unlike on the democratic side, hillary is absolutely blowing out the rest of the field there is no one dominant choice for republicans. they have a huge potential field and that's why i think these questions of who's in and who's out are actually going to end up being pretty critical. i would say, his name is there, but what you were talking about as far as who gets the early money, who gets the establishment support, that's gonna sort of say, signal who on that giant long list of candidates, which ones are gonna get squeezed out before they even really have a chance to step forward and to move their number up higher? >> mark mckinnon, quick one-word answer here, we know he is interested in jeb bush, do you think he runs, yes or no? >> i think's in. >> all right. held you to the one-word answer. >> holding to you that, mark. >> mark mckinnon, appreciate you joining us from the daily beast. ms in. bc's kasie hunt. thank you for being with us this morning. election night is not over yet, the official final close 33
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for around $329 a month. we have breaking election news for, nbc news has now called the 36th and final senate election of the year. louisiana democratic senator mary landrieu has officially now been defeated in her bid a fourth term. this in last night's runoff, she lost by a sound margin. bill cassidy, the republican congressman, 56%, landrieu, only 44% that will make cassidy the 54th republican vote mitch mcconnell's new republican senate majority in january. with landrieu's defeat, there will be no democratic senators left from a deep south state. and our next hour, we are going to explore what happened to the southern democrats taking the deep dive with an assist from our big board. but up first, colonel jack jacobs will get a turn of his own at the big board to help
explain what went wrong in that failed hostage rescue in yemen but. enweslplus, wesley clark wi here to explain his analysis. stay with us. i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn't treat chest congestion. really? new alka-seltzer plus day powder rushes relief to your worst cold symptoms plus chest congestion. oh, what a relief it is. here we go! ♪ vicks nyquil severe. helps relieve your ugliest, nastiest, roughest, toughest cold symptoms. vicks nyquil severe. with maximum symptom fighting ingredients. ♪
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as we have been reporting, detai decontinue to emerge this morning about the risky rescue mission yesterday to recover american hostage luke somers from al qaeda captivity. military officials saying the rescue effort "lost the element of surprise before it even began." colonel jack jacobs joins us from the big board. he is going to take a look at the challenges that this particular mission faced. colonel jack what kind of planning went into this operation? >> what's supposed to happen there is a lot of planning, meticulous execution and in order to do that, lots and lots of rehearsals but they didn't have the luxury of time here because the expectation was that al qaeda was gonna execute somers so they had to just go with whatever they had. they had a plan and to execute it as quickly as possible, without all the rehearsals that were necessary under normal
circumstances. you're in an area over here, the objective is somewhere in south central yemen and you position the assets nearby in the gulf of aden. in this particular case, aboard the "uss macon", a ship that typically has lots of rotary winged aircraft, including blackhawks and ospreys like this, tiltrotor aircraft, carry a lot of special operators into the objective area. once you're there, you figure out exactly where you're gonna go, let's say this is the objective, small compound in south central yemen. you don't want to land on top of the objective, 'cause you lose the element of surprise. instead, you land some distance away where they can't hear you and then infiltrate your force under the cover of darkness, took place after midnight and then attract objective. in this instance, they were alerted -- there were some people who were awake, they saw the attacking force and as a
result, a firefight ensued. once the firefight's over, you secure the objective and then you bring in rotary winged aircraft, like the ospreys and blackhawks in order to evacuate casualties, enemy who are captured, intelligence material, the hostages and so on, you bring them back to the "uss macon" or a similar ship and then out of the area. this is an extremely difficult operation to pull off and much, much different than a lot of the operations people have in mind using special operations forces. >> yeah, colonel, on that, what -- do we have a sense, when talking about going into a place lake this where you're trying to rescue people, trying to get them out alive, what the odds are of success for pulling something like this off. >> not as good as going in, for example, going in and getting osama bin laden if you're going to attack to kill or capture enemy, oddly, it's much easier
to do that than it is to go into an area like this and not only kill or capture the enemy, but be able to isolate the hostages from the enemy and bring the hostages out alive, extremely difficult to do. doesn't succeed nearly as often as the -- as the attacks to kill and capture the enemy, very, very tough operation. and done with very little warning. so these things, your honor to the -- unfortunately, don't come out successfully. >> we haven't learned the details yet, any lessons that jump out to you from the experience in this failed mission that we could learn for future ones? >> you know, we had the opportunity to do this before and the mission failed. the mission failed, went about a couple of weeks ago to go snatch him but we didn't get him, we didn't get him because the intelligence wasn't up to speed. they had moved somers just a day before we went into the area. we were able to get some other
hostage bus not somers and points out how important good intelligence is. overhead satellites, we do a lot of that, eavesdropping on telephone conversations. there's nothing -- there's nothing that will compete with good intelligence that will contribute to the successful accomplishment of the mission and so, the lesson here is you got to be vigilant. you got to keep on top of the intelligence. any time somebody is moved, you got to know about it and you have to be able to develop intelligence on the ground. extremely difficult to do in a place like this. in other areas like iraq and afghanistan, they built up areas lots easier because we have people on the ground talking to other people on the ground, place like this, extremely difficult to do. so, the lesson here is stay on top of your intelligence. >> all right, colonel jacobs, the big board used for non-election stuff, very good job, very informative. appreciate that. straight ahead, we will continue this conversation from the perspective of a retired four-star general, former nato
supreme commander wesley clark will be here later. and senator bernie sanders joins us with not just the will he or won't he question about running for president but also the why. you won't want to in miss that. stay with us. ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further.
don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. having less pain... it's a great feeling. ask your doctor about lyrica today. it's specific treatment for diabetic nerve pain. is t did the u.s. have any choice? thanks for staying with us this sunday morning. next week at this time, the federal government could be shut down, yet again. we are gonna ask two prominent congressmen, one democrat, one republican, whether a deal can be reached before this friday's deadline. also senator bernie sanders from vermont will be here to talk about his plan to rebuild the middle class and maybe his plans to run in 2016. we begin this hour with the new details emerging this morning about the failed operation to
rescue american hostage, luke somers. he and another hostage from south africa were killed in the raid bay the al qaeda militants who had been holding them. nbc's kristen welker joining us live from the north lawn of the white house with the latest. kristen? >> reporter: steve, good morning. i have been talking to senior administrations officials throughout the weekend and one u.s. official describes the rescue mission as a multiagency whole of government effort. it started overnight on thursday. you will remember that's when have a of luke somers was leased by his al qaeda captors who threatened to kill him on saturday. so, we are talking about yesterday. intelligence officials say that they determined the threat was credible. they believe that somers' captors would, in fact, kill him yesterday. they also had credible intelligence about somers' whereabouts base olden their part to initially rescue him. you will recall that happened last month, steve. all of that set off a series of meetings from the pentagon, the state department and right here at the white house. on friday, the president's national security team, i am
told, recommended unanimously that mr. obama approve the mission. he and secretary of defense chuck hagel, who is, of course, outgoing, gave the green light on friday morning. here is how the mission all went down. on friday night, dozens of navy s.e.a.l.s landed about two miles from their target. the american commandos reached what is being described as a cluster of buildings and this's where somers was being held. once the al qaeda captors realized what was happening though, that's when a gun fight broke out. somers and that south african who you mentioned, pierre korkie, were discovered gravely wounded, apparently shot by their captors. they were airlifted, treated by medics, airlifted to as you navy ship but both ultimately died of their wounds. now the u.s. special forces did kill between six to nine al qaeda captors and i am told at this point, it appears as though no civilians were killed when ask if the white house had second thoughts about the mission, one u.s. official told merck look, the president still feels it was the right decision to try to rescue somers because the intelligence about his
location was reliable, he was in that exact location. in a statement yesterday, president obama said "the u.s. would spare no effort to use all of its military intelligence and diplomatic capabilities to bring americans home safely wherever they are located." meanwhile, steve, we are also hearing from his friends and his colleagues today in a statement, his stepmother describes somers as a talented photographer with a sensitive for the people and people's lives. i spoke with one of his colleagues who works at pbs news hour but who had spent some time in yemen as well, steve. that person telling me that he just can't believe that this happened to luke somers. that entire community of people who are his friends and his family just in shock this morning. steve? >> all right, kristen welker live at the white house. thanks for joining us this morning much appreciate that. >> absolutely. thanks. we are joined nowby retired u.s. army general, wesley clark, former supreme allied commander of nato, former presidential candidate, also author. new book "don't wait fort next war." general, welcome, thanks for
being with us. so i mean, listening to what kristen just outlined there, it certainly seems, you know, seems like there was no choice but to take a shot at this, the alternative, they were gonna kill him anyway. the same time, you hear about how this went down, basically, the minute that al qaeda realized that there was a rescue attempt being made, they went in and killed him. and it just raises the question, how can you get these hostages out alive if that's what you're facing? >> sometimes you can get in there with good ingems and you can surprise the enemy and you can get the hostage, sometimes you're not going to succeed. all -- everyone connected in this operation understood the risks but you're faced with the issue of do you let it happen or do you take action, because it's not only about the life of that hostage. in this case, two hostages, but it's also about how you protect americans going forward. it's about whether you increase the value of americans as targets for terrorist
kidnappings or whether you put fear in the hearts of al qaeda and convince them that they will never get away with it. maybe you won't rescue every hostage, but you will never had a team that's holding those hostages that's ever safe and secure. and we will destroy those people who are taking those hostages, time after time, whenever they attempt to do some and that's the united states' policy. this is a long, multiyear, maybe multidecade effort in this region. we are gonna see more of this, as long as they continue to take americans hostage. and i hope the united states is gonna be effective in persuading other governments, including governments like the government of south africa, which reportedly paid money to have the other hostage released, not to do that. we have got to work together and we have got to break this al qaeda hostage taking. >> let me ask you this, i just -- 'cause this summer and early fall, we had a spate of stories about isis, isis taking
hostages, beheading them, being paid ransoms by some european governments, the united states, the uk refusing to do so. this is a different group this is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula doing this is there -- do you have a sense that maybe there are other groups like this group, like al qaeda and the arabian peninsula that maybe saw what isis was doing this summer and sort of a copycat thing now? >> well, it's the way the terrorists can make money. so, if? a tactic that works, then there will be copycat cells all over north africa kand the middle east who will look for americans who were in there for all the right reasons. they will seize them, they will demand payments. they will hold them. so, this is a problem throughout the region, it's not just a single organization, it's the way they make money. the reports from last summer indicated that isis had made millions and millions of dollars from hostage taking. we know this somali pirates in an earlier period were making money off hostage taking and we know we have terrorist cells across north africa and into countries like nigeria with boko
haram, who would do this if they could get their hands on the right americans and thought they could pull it off or the right europeans. so, yes this is a threat throughout the region. >> the other thing is i wonder what you would say, how would you say, from a standpoint of policy, let me put it this way, from a standpoint of policy what you are saying about why we should never pay ransoms, i totally understand, the policy of the united states, but when talking to one of these families has a son, a daughter, who is being held by these groups, and that family is made aware that, hey, if we can just raised 1 million, $2 million, somehow we can come one that money ourselves, we will see our son again and if we don't, we won't. how do you tell that family to resist that urge? >> well, there's two issues here, one is even if the money's raised, you may or may not get your loved one back, because delivering this money and having the hostage released, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's a matter of back and forth communication is the
price gets raised. secondly, i think that all the american people and those families know that they want their government to be involved trying to bring these people back to freedom. now, these european governments, south african governments, they don't have the capacities to mount a rescue operation. so, they buy it off. but by buying it off, you're feeding the threat and you're making more likely that other families and other loved ones will suffer the same fate afterwards. so i think in this case, it's one of those terrible things, if you're a family and you've got a loved one that's going into that area, then i think you have to be aware of the risks and you have to really think again about doing this, because these people are in danger, they are targeted, they are like a walking cash cow for terrorists. so, got to really think hard about whether we want to do that or not. >> we obviously had the intelligence, sufficient intelligence to find out pretty much exactly where they were
being held, the two hostages being held for this mission to begin and apparently, previous effort recently where they had been moved at the last minute which raises the question, a group like al qaedaed in the arabian peninsula, groups like isis, we always talk about our intelligence to find out where they are, how good is their intelligence to know where we are? >> well, they do have intelligence, you know, and they are getting better and better at it you know, a decade ago when the united states first started, it wasn't that easy for them they didn't understand the technology, the techniques, the hard wake the way we operate, they have gotten better and better at this, yes, you can buy commercial satellite imagery. you can probably buy electronic eavesdropping. you can listen on youtube and hear people talk and report things that perhaps shouldn't be reported. we are getting a tremendous amount of information, let's say, about russian activities in ukraine by simply monitoring youtube and watching what people post on facebook. so, there are ways in which information leaks out, but i'd
like to think that our ability to protect our own movements and our own intentions is pretty good. and it's able to be controlled and especially when you have an aircraft carrier or an am fab off the coast like this and it's moving. yes, it may have been seen in a port and yes, there may be fishermen out there who can see things and who knows, but we know how to sanitize that area, if we have to. and we can do that. so, i'm sure we will be tightening up our own intelligence and counterintelligence procedures after this. >> all right, retired army general wesley clark, thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you. all right, how the holidays are threatening to bring another government shutdown bay the end of this week. we will investigate the why and whether it can be prevented with two people in a position to stop it. that's next. i was just looking at your credit report site. do you guys have identity theft protection? [ male voice ] i'm sorry, did you say identity distribution? no. protection. identity theft protection.
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so, stop me if you've heard this one before, congress has until midnight this thursday to pass some kind of legislation to fund the government and if it doesn't, then the government is going to shut down again this friday, december 12th. this latest round of brinkmannship has everything to do with president obama's recent executive action on immigration reform with some on the right demanding an all-out push to stop funding for the department of homeland security, which is implementing the president's orders. desperate to avoid another shutdown though, the house's republican leadership has put together a two-step plan, the first step involved a resolution rebuking the president for his executive action and that resolution passed, mostly on party lanes this past thursday. now, this week comes the harder part, a bill that would keep the government open for a year but with one exception, making funding for the department of homeland security expire a few months from now, which would
allow conservatives to stage another fight then over the president's immigration action. there is some dissent on the right here. house conservatives are complaining they are being rush wood i their leadership as the hill describes it "house conservatives are griping that speaker john boehner is putting the squeeze on them by rushing through $1 trillion spending bill." so, if that bill to keep the government open and to stop it from shutting down is gonna pass this week, republican leaders are going to need some help from democrats. so is this a deal that democrats can live with? republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania, democrat bill pascrell of new jersey, both sides of the aisle, they join us now. thanks for joining us. congressman dent, i will start with you on the republican side, how confident are you right now that there will not be a shutdown this week? >> i am very confident there is not going to be shut down. i thank you a lot of my colleagues learned a regard lesson a little over a year ago and certainly no education to be gained by the second kick of the mule and certainly no wisdom from the third or fourth kick. >> but to listen to some of the
rhetoric coming out of there, it sounds like there's an appetite, especially because this executive action thing, to find some way to undo it through playing with funding for dhs and -- >> well there are a handful of members who, you know, i think would take must that direction. but overwhelmingly, think most of the members in the house, you know, want to pass the cromny bus or omnibus or at least move forward, clear the decks now so we can start the new year with a fresh agenda. >> congressman pascrell, it might come to you as a democrat to provide a critical vote to get this thing passed, if a handful of republican, a dozen of them, a couple dozen of them say, you know, this isn't enough, we don't want to vote for this bill, you're going to need democrats to get it across, this bill, the one we outlined there, something we have to live with? >> we have to pass the legislation but we don't have to be handmaidens, we don't have to -- let them vote first and then vote, let them put up their votes, not all of the -- >> let it go down and then let it come back or -- >> yeah, it's -- some way it will pass, hopefully by 3:00
thursday afternoon. some way it will pass. but we don't have reasonable members, like charlie kent accident on the other side. charlie dent is not an exception, a lot of good republicans who think and try to resolve their problems. but the majority, i think, are caught up in being pushed by the tea party folks and they have gotten away with it for a couple of years and they are going to continue to do it. i mean, they use this immigration thing as an excuse, if it wasn't immigration, it would be something else. there's no doubt about t. >> they want the showdown. >> absolutely, they want a showdown on every situation. and to hold homeland security hostage, charlie, to me, is a pretty -- particularly in the situation we are going to right now throughout the world, is not the right way to do this. in my opinion. >> so, if this gets through this week, it means that funding for the whole government is basically good for a year, except funding for the department of homeland security, which would come up again early
next year and then your party or would want to fight that all over again then? >> no, actually, my preference is to pass an omnibus, all 12 -- >> you want everything passed? >> i want it all passed. >> what they are putting together -- >> not 12. i serve on the homeland security committee and i helped draft that bill, a lot of good stuff in there, i don't particularly want to cr that, kick that into the new year because come february or march, we will pass the homeland security at prop preyations bill, i would just assume pass it now, this week. that's my preference, if the votes aren't there bill said --'s clever guy, bill, he is a friend, look, he is smart, he thinks the republicans, the republicans should put the votes up, 218 before one democrat should vote for it i don't blame them. what i would do but we should -- but the point is if there aren't the votes for the cromny bus, i would say pass the omnibus. >> the way it was explained to merck the sort of tea party crowd wants to fight over the immigration executive action and
that, hence they want to put dhs funding on the table. but even if you stopped dhs funding, the way this thing is being implemented it would still go forward is that right? >> pretty much. much of the u.s. citizens immigration service, uscis is funding through fees and they are gonna get their fees, regardless. so, yeah, i don't think it's a particularly good tactic. i think the way that we republicans should respond to the president's executive action on immigration is by passing some immigration bills in the new year. >> that's what the president wants. and that's exactly what the president's strategy is, charlie and that is you have the senate bill for so long, you didn't do anything. i don't mean you personally, you didn't do it, the president said i'm going to do something about tax critical thing. if immigration is broken, this is my response to it and you have time to pass legislation to undo what i'm trying to do rather than let's go to court, let sue the president. come on, that's not gonna go any
place. >> well, first, look, the president's executive action, i think he overstepped his authority, even the "washington post" editorialized this is a sweeping step. that said -- >> well, they are not the litmus test of what's legal and not legal here. >> this is a whole class of people that the president has, you know, has suspended deportations from. i think this is unprecedented. >> you agree with it though? what if we voted on that tomorrow? what if we voted to do what the president did in executive orderer? would you vote for that? >> let me tell you what i will do. i will vote on a step-by-step basis for several immigration bills. i don't want to do one big comprehensive bill. i want to do border security, i want to do interior enforcement, e-verify, children, you can accompanied children and i'm prepared to have an honest, adult conversation about the 11 million people in this country unlawfully and deal with them in a way that i think will be -- >> and you may. you want to deal with them
humanelism and i -- >> well, congressman -- >> that might be with the republicans increasing their majority in the house that sort of piecemeal approach, what goodlatte has been talking about that may be the reality of what they pursue there, do you see any common ground there, okay there under certain circumstances? >> most of what they might suggest and i haven't seen it in writing about we do this individually, step-by-step, i can agree with. i wish they could have done that with health care, but they didn't, chose not to do that. i think that we are gonna have a long fight over immigration regardless of what happens, whether the president did this last week or not, doesn't matter. i think we are going to have a long fight over. this and i think border security is a ruse. i think if it wasn't that, they would get something else in order to hold up immigration. the system is broken, we need a change and if the chamber of commerce is for it, it can't be
so bad, charlie. >> let me ask but this, we have limited time left, 'cause we heard this after the 2012 election, if there's one thing the two parties are gonna agree on after this, it's immigration reform. we just finished the 2014 election, didn't happen. by the time the 2016 election comes around, do you think congress will have passed ant president will have signed some comp mean sive form of immigration reform? >> yes. >> i believe we will see some progress on immigration reform. i can't say we will pass every piece of it but i think -- certainly think you will see it on things like border security, e-verify, s.t.e.m. workers and hopefully agricultural workers at the very least, maybe the children. >> senator a little less confident. my thanks to bill pascrell from new jersey, charlie dent from pennsylvania. appreciate you joining us this morning. a new proposal by president obama to improve policing but will it work? that's next.
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last night, police used tear gas to disburperse protesters i berkeley, california. some in the crowd broke windows and looted stores. one of the demands made by protesters in recent weeks, demand made by the family of unarmed teen michael brown who was killed by police officer darren wilson in august and demand has been for police to wear body cameras to capture their interactions with the public. and that idea got a major boost this week from president obama. the president is proposing $75 million in federal spending to help state and local police departments outfit their officers with cameras. i think ferguson laid bare a problem that is not unique to st. louis or that area, and is not unique to our time.
and that is a simmering distrust that exists between too many police departments and too many communities of color. i'm going to be proposing some new community policing initiatives that will significantly expand funding and training for local law enforcement, including up to 50,000 additional body-worn cameras for law enforcement agencies. >> obama's proposal follows experiments with body cameras in cities nationwide. new york city the nation's largest police force, started their body cam pilot program this weekend. but then in new york city this week, this also happened, a grand jury dexlined to indict new york city police officer daniel pantaleo in the choke hold death of eric garner, even though garner's death was recorded on camera by a bystander. even after seeing garner held by the throat by police, even after hearing garner cry "i can't breathe" 11 times, the grand jury still declined to issue an indictment.
are body cameras the policy response we need to improve law enforce n this country? joining me to answer that question, baltimore mayor stephanie rollins blake, who spores body cameras but vetoed a city council bill on several concerns, including privacy and with us is former police officer and prosecutor eugene o'donnell, professor at john jay college of criminal justice. mare blake, i will start with you. here's what i'm interested in. you support cod body cameras and vetoed bill for technical reasons this week. i'm curious, we talk in the big picture about body camera, how does this work, in terms of how often do the cameras have to be on? are they on 24/7? does the officer control who turns them on or off? does the public have access to, you know, can we get the recordings from officer charge. ? how will it work, practically speaking? >> and those are the reasons, those questions that you asked should have been asked by the council before they passed that bill. they have a bill that required the officers to wear the body cams, but they didn't even require that they turn them on.
we have to be more thoughtful and thorough if we are going to get this right and we have to answer those questions. tough answer those questions because what happens if a camera is on and a woman calls for a domestic violence complaint? the officer responds, she is battered, she is bruised, what if that becomes public information? we have to deal with those privacy concerns. >> how would you, as the mare, see it work, practically speaking? >> well, what i want to do is what we are doing, we have a work group with the aclu, we have lawyers, we have community members, we have law enforcement people that are all looking at these issues and working together to come out with something that works for baltimore. this isn't a cookie cutter approach. this san approach that i believe needs to be led and included the community needs to be included to make sure we get it right, that's what i'm doing and looking forward to getting that report next month so we can do the implementation and make sure it works. >> so, eugene, obviously, law enforcement background, this is now happening in new york city happening elsewhere, what is the reaction of the average cop being told you are wearing a
camera now, what do you think about that? >> i say we have to have an honest conversation about policing, they use force and it's never pretty and they are not automatically protected and they could become averse to involvement. we have a lot of police departments in the country that are basically employment agencies, the cops drive around, they get there late, they don't engage, struggle on 8th street, slow on 10th street. i have serious doubts whether this will be beneficial, keep our equilibrium, issues about brutality, acknowledge cities in the country, minority communities, the communities asking for police to engage not disengage, very concerned about this looks like mayor walsh in boston also has concerns whether this is going to make cops take steps back. >> you're saying the cop may be pauses, maybe thinks twice, maybe says, it's not necessarily we talk about these dramatic and horrible situations that make the news, but it's more every day stuff that people might -- might be able to quibble with and say that's little over the line or a little tough, whatever, it is really every day policing? >> i have to say bluntly, i see some real class issues here in
terms of the expectation, the cops are unwise enough to get theseselves into these situations, they don't have, again, automatic protection, every time they engage somebody, they could be indicted that makes their job unique and the idea that we are going to look at a video, ex post facto, when they are in these sometimes life and death situations and say for eight seconds, it was okay, the ninth second was not okay, i think we have to take a step become on that and have a police industrial complex, tasers, tasers selling cameras and they are pushing this stuff. tasers may make the police more violent. no the sure about that. so we have to have some real, honest conversations, probably not a great time to have a full-scale conversation about this. >> well, mayor, i'm curious, just listening to what eugene just said, curious what your response is. >> i think eugene makes a good point, i think in far too many places around the country, there's a knee jerk reaction, get cameras on police as soon as possible without asking the tough questions and without understanding that this is not a -- body cameras respect going
to solve all of our problems and the eric garner case, there was tape and the community is still concern and the family is still upset and we have protests all throughout the country, not because the camera -- there wasn't footage of it, but because of the outcome, it's clear that we need a holistic approach, including work that like we are doing in baltimore. i asked the department of justice to come in to help us with our community policing efforts, we have to do better with training. it's clear that cameras are one thing, but it has to include the types of training and the types of engagement that rebuilds the trust that the community and the police need to have with each other. you know, it's important, the people are saying all around the country, when you see these protesters saying something very loud and clear, is do you hear me? do you see me? do i matter? and with proper community policing, that's when we get that right, that we can show the community, yes, they do matter and yes, you know this is a partnership, a true partnership. >> all right, baltimore mayor
stephanie rawlings-blake, former prosecutor, eugene o'donnell, thanks for joining us this morning. thanks a lot. senator bernie sanders, our interview with him. and up next, the president's weekend doesn't go exactly as planned. interesting detail there is on the other side of the break. and the legion of super fans. wow! [ narrator ] on a mission to get richard to his campbell's chunky soup. it's new chunky beer-n-cheese with beef and bacon soup. i love it. and mama loves you. ♪ alright, so this tylenol andarthritis lasts 8 hours, but aleve can last 12 hours... and aleve is proven to work better on pain than tylenol arthritis. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? aleve, proven better on pain. she still does it the old way. i haven't told her i switched to tide pods. it's a concentrated, 3-1 detergent that gives me an amazing clean with just one pack. you already knew? i can't keep a secret in this family. that's my tide.
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we'll have given 50 million dollars over seven years. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. >> that is mary landrieu, senator mary landrieu from louisiana, addressing her supporters last night in louisiana. we can show you what happened. this is it. this is the final outstanding senate race of 2014. this was the runoff in louisiana, mary landrieu, a three-term democratic incumbent, she was defeated last night by congressman bill cassidy, a republican. bill cassidy will now become the 54th republican in the new senate in january. remember, just two years ago,
republicans were left with 45 that means they have gained a total of nine seats in the senate in the 2014 midterms.what's so interesting about these numbers here, in the original election, in the jungle primary a month ago, mary landrieu came in with 42%, in the mons since then, stayed right there climbed a point or two, what happened was there was another republican candidate in that jungle primary and basically, all those votes went to bill cassidy and that's the story of it. mary landrieu loses by 12 points. again, we can see inside the numbers here exactly how this happened. there was no exit poll last night, we can't break this down too exactly. i think we have a pretty good scene what is going on here, look back to 2008, the last time mary landrieu was re-elected, 52% of the vote, got re-elected in 2008. if you look at the white vote in louisiana, these are voters will once, a generation ago two generations ago, all democratic, steadily moving to the republican party in 2008, mary landrieu was still able to get 33% of them. in the jingle primary a month
ago when she just got 42%, look at that, she only got 18% of the white vote. looks like she is stuck around that number. again, we don't have actual exit polls from last night, my guess would be she is at or below 20%. when you are a democrat, when you are in the south, when you are at or below 20% of the white vote, you are not going to be winning anymore. that is why we are saying this is a story about mary landrieu, about louisiana, this is a much bigger story about the south and about the evolution of american politics, really over the last 50 years. and what i mean by that is let's look back 50 years ago, 1964, this is the south in 1964. these are the states of the old confedera confederacy, senate representation from those state, every states blue, two democratic senators, they all had two democratic senators, texas had one republican, john tower, the other democrat, a total in the south 50 years ago of 21 democratic senators and just one republican. that's how dominant the democratic party was in the south, the democratic party in the south was defined by
conservative whites back then, many african-americans couldn't even vote in the south in 1964. you had the civil rights revolution, the voting rights act, demographics changed in the south. look at this now. 50 years later, after last night, accounting for louisiana now electing another republican senator this is what the south now looks like. you have two democratic senators from virginia. and virginia is a state that demographically is becoming more and more northern, a lot of people from the north moving in. that's one of the reasons it's become so blue and florida, you have a democratic senator, again, florida, another state where the demographics have been changed by northerners moving down, beyond that you don't have a single democratic senator left in the entire south. now louisiana is all republican after last night for the first time since reconstruction, a total of 19 republicans in the south, just three democrats, mary landrieu was the last deep south democrat left in the senate. so it's basically a complete flip from where this country was 50 years ago. that's the bigger story about what happened last night. one other thing we want to note
in louisiana, i would be remiss if i did not mention there was a runoff for a congressional seat, you see here edwin edwards, the democrat, losing, not surprising he lost by this much, very republican district but edwin edwards, if you know this name, a throwback politician, think of the days like huey long, the rogue politician, he was the governor of this state, of the state of louisiana four different times, did he time in federal prison. he ran, in fact in 1991, he ran for governor, famous race, his opponent was david duke, the former klan leader, the bumper sticker for edwin edwards says vote fort crook, it's important and he won that race easily. get out of jail a few years ago, 87 years old, figured what do i do with my life, hey, i'm in politics run for office. he ran in this election, nobody expected him to win but looks like this might be the end of the line for the political career of edwin edwards. funny story, he was asked last night what are your plans now after you have lost? i'm going who emto get some sleep? what are you going to do after that? well, i will wake up and i will have breakfast. so, edwin edwards, very colorful
career, looks like it might have come to an end last night, that is the story from louisiana. and up next, that interview we have been talking about all morning with bernie sanders, talk to him about maybe running for president. that's next. right now, you can get a single line with 3 gigs for $65 a month. 3 gigs ... is that a lot? that's about...100 app downloads, 45 hours of streaming music, and 6 hours of video playing. (singing) and five golden rings! ha, i see what you did... (singing) four calling birds...three french hens... (the guys starts to fizzle out) two... turtle... doves... i really went for it there ya you did... you really, really did now get 3 gigs of data on one line for $65 a month. switch to at&t, buy a new smartphone and get $150 credit per line.
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where the people on top have never had it so good and what we are saying today is the head of mcdonald's and to the united states government is that the wealthy cannot have it all. >> that's right. >> working people deserve a fair shake. >> so no secret by now that bernie sanders is considering running for president from the left as "the new yorker's" john cassidy work this week, sanders putting together his progressive manifesto, put democrats to his side of the political spectrum on issues like economic regulation, trade and health care. i talked to bernie sanders on friday about his efforts to make his party or the party he may eventually join more, aggressive. senator bernie sanders, thank you for joining us. so you laid out on the senate floor recent lay 12-point economic agenda and i think people can read that as your agenda, sort of your wish list
for the next congress over the next two years and i think other people can look at that and say that's potentially a platform for a presidential candidacy. so i want to talk to you about both. let's start with the congress that's going to be seated in january for the next two years. this 12-point agenda you laid out. is there anything in there specifically, given that you have a republican house, a republican senate and obama obviously still in the white house. is there anything in there specifically that you believe can and will be passed in the next two years? >> the answer is yes. i think if the president remains strong and if we can rally the american people to demand the congress start working on the disappearing middle class and the growing gap between the rich and the poor, i think we can implement some important policies. right now the fastest way to create the millions of jobs we desperately need is by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems, rail, et
cetera. if we invested $1 trillion over a period of years, we can create 13 million jobs. you know why -- >> i'm sorry, senator, do you think that level of investment, given everything we have seen from the republican republican house over the last four years, do you think that level of investment or anything approaching it is realistic to come out of the republican congress? >> well, you're right. i don't think we will get as much as i want or as much as we need. on the other hand, you have conservatives like jim iminoff of the public works committee who does believe in infrastructure as well as other republican senators and members of the house. so i do hope with the president's support that we can begin substantially investing in infrastructure and creating jobs. other area, i think the minimum wage at $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. i think it has to be raised over a period of time to $15 an hour. but you have people like mitt romney and other republicans
talking about raising the minimum wage. you have four conservative states in the last election voting to raise the minimum wage. do i think the republicans are smart enough to know this is an issue they can move on? i do, and i hope we can make progress there as well. >> as i said, it's something people can look at and say, bernie sanders is exploring a bid for president, a platform to run for president, one of the things people look at is hillary clinton is the big front-runner, everybody acknowledges that on the democratic side right now. when you look at the principle that is you laid out here, the 12 steps you laid out here, realistically, do you believe hillary clinton is in line with you on them or are there differences you see with her potentially? >> my suggestion is to ask hillary clinton about her views on this. i can't speak for hillary clinton. what i do know is virtually every one of the issues, infrastructure, raising the minimum wage, paid equity, transforming the energy system,
demanding and passing legislation, to ask the wealthiest people in the largest corporations of this country to start paying their fair share of taxes. you know what? these are very popular issues that go across the political spectrum. the american people know there's something wrong when the middle class is disappearing and 95% of all new income today goes to the top 1%. so that is an important set of principles that any serious candidate should run on. >> yeah, and i guess what i wonder about is when i listen to democrats, and this includes hillary clinton, she hasn't said too much specifically, that's sort of by design the last few months, but when i listen to her speak in broad terms of principle, i hear what you just said. pay equity, closing the gap between rich and poor in this country, eliminating economic inequality. i hear that from her and every big name democrat out there. it seems on the core principles, i don't hear much difference between you and most other democrats in washington. so where are the differences that would encourage you to run
for president? >> really? i have spent my entire political career taking on every special interest. that's one thing for somebody to talk about, well, we have to expand the middle class, we have to create jobs, everybody says that. including republicans. i think what you have to look at with the specifics of the program that people are outlining, i will be outlining a very specific program within the next few months. >> senator, that's what i'm asking you there, in terms of when you get beyond the broad strokes rhetoric here, i agree with you, you hear that from everybody, so when you look at the democratic party and the leaders of the democratic party, where are they falling short specifically? >> well, we need, for example, we are losing $100 billion every single year because corporations are stashing their money, their profits in the caymen islands and bermuda. i'm going to bring forward and have brought forward legislation
to end that absurd practice. i happen to believe that the united states should not be the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care to all people to a national health care program. i support a single pay and national health care program. i happen to believe that our current trade policies, nafta, permanent normal trade relations with china are a disaster which have lost us millions of jobs and going abroad to countries. i want to change fundamentally trade policies so companies reinvest in america, not china. are those the issues you hear from a lot of folks? >> if you do go ahead and run in the democratic primaries, you have to change your party registration to become a democrat. that's something you have not been throughout your political career are. you comfortable potentially making that step? >> well, that's an issue i'm talking, a, i don't know if i'm going to run or not. look, steve, if you run a campaign based on the principles i believe in, which is
ultimately we don't make change in this country unless we take on the billionaire class, which now has so much economic and political power. in order to do that, you need to run an unprecedented grassroots campaign. are there millions of people who are prepared to stand up and work really, really hard? getting involved in that kind of campaign. you know what? you don't know that, i don't know that. i have to determine that before i make a decision. what you're asking me is i'm the longest serving end pindependen the united states congress. if i do pursue the campaign, can i do it in the structural of the democratic party or outside the party? that's a difficult question. i'm also trying to get some understanding of where people are coming on that. there are positives and negatives of either approach. >> and where at this point in terms of your decision, do you have a sense of when you'll have a decision made? >> i'll make it at the appropriate time. i think people in this country are not necessarily sympathetic to never-ending campaigns.
so i think we have some time to do it. on the other hand, obviously, there's a point if you're going to go forward where you have to make a decision. >> senator bernie sanders, independent, at least for now from vermont. appreciate you taking the time this morning. appreciate that. >> thank you, steve. all right. bernie sanders, we'll keep an eye out on what he does. we have a few extra seconds at the end of the show, so i want to give a shout-out to a team you have never heard of. the new jersey institute of technology. the hilanders, the only independent team in all of college that went to the university of michigan yesterday. it was their first time ever playing a ranked team. just recently they had a 5 51-losing streak and yesterday they won. congratulations to the hilanders. thank you for joining us this weekend. we'll be back next sunday at 8:00 a.m.
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