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Trump is basically removed everyone from inside the white house with connections to that party. >> i think hes making a prosaic point. if you go back, and congressional leaders would say go back to january and start doing this whole health care thing through regular order, having committee hearings, you might have actually gotten a consensus among republicans and could have passed something. so theres a sort of very straightforward point mccain is making here, which is this could have gotten don...

You cannot govern effectively without empowering a white house chief of staff as first among equals to execute your agenda and also tell you what you do not want to hear. this could be mission impossible for kelly. >> and that is chris whipal who spoke with my yesterday. on the tough job that general john kelly will be taking up tomorrow as the new white house chief of staff. joining me now is republican dprszman. what do you want to see changed here with how the white house operates? >> well, t...

Your book is how the chiefs of staff define every presidency. is it possible for any chief of staff to define this presidency in the way youve said others have? >> well, you know, as you pointed out, it really began with nixon and haldeman. hald heman became, famous usually, the lord high executioner. every president finds out sometimes the hard way that you cannot govern without empowering a white house chief of staff as first among equals to execute your agenda. and most importantly, to tell y...

Among equals. hes got to be calling the shots. and most of all, and this was priebus greatest failure, you cant be a sycophant. you cant be a yes-man. youve got to be able to walk into the oval, close the door and tell donald trump what he does not want to hear. and so far that has not happened. >> wow. those are tall orders because youre talking about a white house, a president whos made it very clear that having to rely on washington insiders is the complete opposite direction that this presid...

Sure, if trump wants to have any hope whatsoever of accomplishing anything as president. the indications, the evidence so far is alarming. its not good. theres no -- i get no sense that trump has learned anything from his first six months in office. and the really troubling thing about the incoming chief is that for all of it he may well have a sterling reputation as a general, generals have not traditionally done well in this job. al hague lasted a little over a month as jerry fords white house...

Will or not have? >> it all comes down to donald trump and whether he is constitutionally and i dont mean by that the document, whether he is capable of empowering someone to aid the agenda and b, to tell him har hard truths and thats the critical truth here. its not for the faint of heart. youve got to have somebody who quite frankly makes conditions. i mean, i dont know what conditions kelly has made, if any, but one of them has to be that hes first among equals in the west wing. that means th...

Baker, id call leon panetta, erskine bowles. these guys have dealt with this kind of conflict within the white house. its possible to manage it, but its not easy. i mean this is -- governing is tough. as i say its nothing like running -- having a reality show or running a private family real estate firm. donald trump has not figured this out yet. but hes going to have to figure it out really quickly and empower kelly to be first among equals. hes going to have to make sure that everybody reports...

In the way youve said others have? >> well, you know, as you pointed out, it really began with nixon and haldeman. every president finds out sometimes the hard way that you cannot govern without empowering a white house chief of staff as first among equals to execute your agenda. and most importantly, to tell you things you do not want to hear. now, thats the big challenge obviously with donald trump. you know, with kelly, i think trump has a shot at a reset here. but it may be a long shot. gene...

Because he was on the budget committee in the house of representatives, which has jurisdiction over, in its way, almost everything. he had worked in the office of management and budget of the entire federal budget. so he had to look into every single thing the government was doing before he walked into that white house. and he was himself a politician elected to office in the congress. he had everything you need. is that kind of just, as a bio, is that what youre looking for and everything off o...

This white house, it seems to me, is going to require a new chapter in your book because your book is how the chiefs of staff define every presidency. is it possible for any chief of staff to define this presidency in the way youve said others have? >> well, you know, as you pointed out, it really began with nixon and haldeman. every president finds out sometimes the hard way that you cannot govern without empowering a white house chief of staff as first among equals to execute your agenda. and ...