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the commons? ida. drama to bring this outpouring in the commons?— drama to bring this outpouring in the commons? ., , , the commons? no, this is the thing, what ou the commons? no, this is the thing, what you tend _ the commons? no, this is the thing, what you tend to _ the commons? no, this is the thing, what you tend to find _ the commons? no, this is the thing, what you tend to find with _ the commons? no, this is the thing, what you tend to find with the i what you tend to find with the commons these days is a lot of people, it is two and a half hours of statement to date with a lot of people repeating themselves because they want to see that they are part of the solution. but i answered a number of urgent questions, a number of written questions, westminster hall debate, people like kevin jones, other mps that have been out there standing up, lucy allan for example, standing up for their constituents.— example, standing up for their constituents. ~ ., ., ., constituents. would we have heard this ten years _ constituents. would we have heard this ten years ago? probably i this ten years ago? probably not because it's it's _ this ten years ago? probably not because it's it's only if _ this ten years ago? probably not because it's it's only if you i this ten years ago? probably not because it's it's only if you had l this ten years ago? probably not because it's it's only if you had aj because it's it's only if you had a constituent as an mp that you realise the enormity of it put everybody including the public including the public knew something was happening but not the scale. by, was happening but not the scale. a lot of mps are calling for things to be done so do you regret initially rejecting a judge led inquiry in 2020, partly on the grounds that it would take too long but also expense? would take too long but also expense?— would take too long but also expense?_ would take too long but also exense? a . , �* expense? actually, it wasn't about exense,
did you become angry? each gwyneth, what did it make you think? did you become angry?— gwyneth, what did it make you think? did you become angry? each week that assed i did you become angry? each week that assedi not did you become angry? each week that passed i got angrier _ did you become angry? each week that passed i got angrier and angrier! - passed i got angrier and angrier! and they were all completely isolated, told by the post office that each of them was told you are the only one and that is just heartbreaking. it's bad enough to feel alone but to be told by this faceless corporation of complete, well, villains, that you are all alone in the world and you are the only one this is happening to come and for that to be a lie... actually believable that could happen in my country, is how i felt about it, i could believe what i was finding out about what was happening here in britain. brute about what was happening here in britain. ~ , about what was happening here in britain. ~ ., britain. we can play something from the house of — britain. we can play something from the house of commons _ britain. we can play something from the house of commons today. - i'm very pleased that last week's excellent itv drama mr bates versus the post office has brought an understanding of the horizon scandal to a much broader audience. it is a powerful reminder of the way art and culture can be used to tackle injustice and to raise
convictions, which is fine, and that's important to sort and resolve, but they seem to be steering away from the truth, well, the original group that brought the action and who are so far left outside. ., ., , outside. you were really the earliest campaigner - outside. you were really the earliest campaigner and - outside. you were really the earliest campaigner and it's| outside. you were really the - earliest campaigner and it's clear, your name is in the title, but i wonder, in all this story and the research, the campaigning, the drama, what about your own trauma for over 20 years, alan bates? it's clear that this is absolutely dominated your life.- clear that this is absolutely dominated your life. clear that this is absolutely dominated our life. . �*, , dominated your life. yeah, it's been the best and — dominated your life. yeah, it's been the best and worst _ dominated your life. yeah, it's been the best and worst paid _ dominated your life. yeah, it's been the best and worst paid job - dominated your life. yeah, it's been the best and worst paid job i've - the best and worst paid job i've had. you just carry on with it they are today. the more stories you hear, from the victims, we can't let it go to dip you have to carry on
prison sentences, reputations trashed, bankruptcy, and now new cases. the post office scandal is only deepening. as we go on air, the petition to strip the former post office boss paula vennells of her cbe is well over a million and the prime minister has said he would support a review of it. it doesn't help the hundreds upon hundreds whose lives were all but destroyed and, in some cases, actually destroyed — who will pay their compensation and when? we speak to the subpostmaster at the heart of itv�*s drama and the writer who's reignited an issue that had slipped from the public consciousness. and we'll be joined by the former government minister paul scully, who was behind the strengthening of the post office horizen it inquiry, giving it statutory powers, after first opposing it. also tonight, a special report for newsnight from the bbc team that's uncovered the widespread abuse, torture and rape by the founder of one of the world's biggest
possible that people who could tell a woman who is just watched her own shortfall double in front of her eyes that it is her fault? it's just madness. it was constantly like that. as madness. it was constantly like that. �* ., ., , , madness. it was constantly like that. ., ., , , ., ., that. a lot of these people, one of the thin . s that. a lot of these people, one of the things that _ that. a lot of these people, one of the things that came _ that. a lot of these people, one of the things that came across - that. a lot of these people, one of the things that came across in - the things that came across in the drama and all the research before, was how absolutely isolated people felt. they felt there was nobody else and impact alan first clicked with another sub—postmaster in fife but before that, you had no sense of just what a complete spiders web this was? flat just what a complete spiders web this was? ., ., ., , this was? not at all but i had serious concerns _ this was? not at all but i had serious concerns over - this was? not at all but i had serious concerns over it - this was? not at all but i had . serious concerns over it because this was? not at all but i had - serious concerns over it because i had used these types of systems before we went into the post office. i felt there were real shortcomings in the design. i felt there were real shortcomings in the design-— in the design. when you spoke to --eole in the design. when you spoke to people and _ in the design. when you spoke to people and heard _ in the design. when you spoke to people and heard their— in the design. when you spoke to people and heard their stories, . people and heard their stories, gwyneth, what did it make you think?
thank you forjoining us. both the clip from the drama shows the absolute terror but also the testimony of the woman in sima kotecha's piece, saying she is not the person she was before. i wonder what you make of what the government seems now to be offering by way of recompense, both in terms of money but also acknowledgement of people's hurt? what do you think of that? there are three different schemes running and unfortunately it seems to be those who brought the initial case against post office, the original 555, case against post office, the original555, it case against post office, the original 555, it seems to be those who have been left at the end of the queue. there has been a lot of mention today about the overturned
surface for quite a while and i think the drama has really exposed it now to the nation.— it now to the nation. thank you both ve much it now to the nation. thank you both very much indeed. _ it now to the nation. thank you both very much indeed. paul— it now to the nation. thank you both very much indeed. paul scully i very much indeed. paul scully was ministerfor postal very much indeed. paul scully was minister for postal affairs between 2020 and 2022 and he joins minister for postal affairs between 2020 and 2022 and hejoins me now. thank you forjoining me. it was quite something to hear mps on both sides of the house expressing their horror at the scale of this. it really was but you heard it from kevin jones, what this really was but you heard it from kevinjones, what this has done, the government has been working on this for a few years now, my time and through kevin hollinrake but within four hours of an amazing story telling, it has brought a concise history, it felt like a drama but it also felt like the fact that they had, this is a true story of the beginning of every episode, it needed that because it was so full on. ,, ., ., ., ~ ., needed that because it was so full on. ,, ., ., .,~ ., ., ., on. should it have taken a drama for mps, and of — on. should it have taken a drama for mps, and of course _ on. should it have taken a drama for mps, and of course some have i on. should it have taken a drama for mps, and of course some have beenj mps, and of course some have been working behind the scenes, but a drama to bring this outpouring in
a0 days people would be given their first offer, and it is just not happening, they arejust first offer, and it is just not happening, they are just not meeting their targets and these case are backing up on government desks. and of these cases are also multiplying after the drama. i wonder about that, what is it about a drama that creates such an extraordinary reaction? were you surprised at the strength of the reaction? astonished, bowled over, we all were, none of us were expecting this. look back a week later and you think, chimes hugely with what the whole population is feeling or seems to be, that people feel, everyone feels unheard, that things are happening in this country they don't like, they didn't vote for, and i think you watch the post office drama and you think, what happened to them in a very small way is happening to me as well. i'm not hurt, listened to. i think that is why it has taken off, when i look back. at the time, last monday we
public awareness. it struck me that this was another example of what bishop - jamesjones referred to in terms i of the hillsborough inquiry when he talked about the patronising - disposition of unaccountable power. i think we need more tv dramas because it has had a remarkable effect on attendance in this house tonight. but the drama was successful because i think it spoke about the victims. and speaking about the victims, you are quite clear that although there is a tranche of people being helped, there is a huge tranche are people not being helped?— there is a huge tranche are people not being helped? yes, we started this scheme _ not being helped? yes, we started this scheme in _ not being helped? yes, we started this scheme in 20 _ not being helped? yes, we started this scheme in 20 months - not being helped? yes, we started this scheme in 20 months ago - not being helped? yes, we started| this scheme in 20 months ago with the government and at the moment only a handful have come out the far end of it. this is despite government promises, i think after 40 government promises, i think after a0 days people would be given their first offer, and it isjust
with it. simple as that.- it go to dip you have to carry on with it. simple as that. what did ou make with it. simple as that. what did you make of _ with it. simple as that. what did you make of your _ with it. simple as that. what did you make of your own _ with it. simple as that. what did you make of your own portrayall with it. simple as that. what did l you make of your own portrayal in the drama?— you make of your own portrayal in thedrama? g ., ,, , ., the drama? toby jones play my role to di i the drama? toby jones play my role to dip i mean. _ the drama? toby jones play my role to dip i mean, i'm _ the drama? toby jones play my role to dip i mean, i'm probably - the drama? toby jones play my role to dip i mean, i'm probably the - to dip i mean, i'm probably the worst person ever to make comment about how well toby did flip i think everyone knows i'm more than happy about it. , , , ., ., about it. gwyneth, you had three ears of about it. gwyneth, you had three years of research _ about it. gwyneth, you had three years of research to _ about it. gwyneth, you had three years of research to get - about it. gwyneth, you had three years of research to get to - about it. gwyneth, you had three years of research to get to where you were in terms of writing the drama, which built on a lot of things that had gone before. what did you make of the stories and the people? you spent time going around the country talking to former sub—postmasters and mistresses? i did. i started thisjob three years did. i started this job three years ago and we were still in covid. all my first contact with people were over zoom, which was horrendous, because nobody wants to talk about the worst thing that ever happened