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trump is already scrambling the map this year. in utah where the mormon electorate is especially unfavorable to trump his lead is down to 5.5. prompting the campaign to dispatch mike pence to salt lake city less than two weeks before the election to do damage control. he's there tomorrow. mitt romney himself a mormon won utah by 48% in 2012. given trump's polling deficit his lack of ads it came as a surprise that according to "the washington post" trump has stopped holding high-dollar fund-raisers and relying on online donations which tend to be much smaller. that's after campaign financial reports show more money spent than raised in the month of september. reports add to growing speculation that donald trump is not in very deep psychological sense running to be president of the united states so much as he's running to build up a fan base for donald trump. with the advent of trump tower
and then i could advertise a project that i'm doing. like doral or something. and spend half a million dollars on it or a million dollars. or i can do the show and spend nothing and be on for a lot longer. >> on the very day those tapes went public, that's exactly where trump was, doral. his resort and golf club outside miami. the event was ostensibly a campaign photo op with a group of employees, many who are hispanic and support the republican nominee. it sounded like this. >> 800 acres in the middle of miami. if you look at the ballroom, that was brand-new that didn't exist. it's one of the great places on earth. we had a construction crew here of 1600 people. we rebuilt the whole place in 14 months. we did it under budget although i did increase the scope of the work because we decided to use the finest marbles. >> while trump was hanging out at his golf course with the finest marbles, hillary clinton was holding an event at broward
alternative, which it is a business proposition, a poor business proposition and he's handling it terribly because he's incompetent at doing the one thing he says he's good at. >> that's a possibility. i think he's far too smart for that and at 70 years old as a billionaire mogul. >> we'll have to see the tax returns. >> that's not on his agenda right now. i don't think anyone can doubt this. even if you have the most malicious and nefarious view of donald trump you can't doubt that he's poured his body and soul into this campaign. >> everyone who runs for president does that. >> no, no. it's incredibly special. if you were to compare his schedule to hillary clinton's you would see a frenetic campaigner on one side, a man who could be my father -- >> all the time, yeah. >> -- i could never keep up his schedule versus hillary clinton who campaigns every few days. >> but you realize this is like one of trump's sons said this is
a huge step down for him to run for president. he's not doing it -- donald trump isn't doing anyone any favors for running to be the most powerful person on the planet, right? >> i disagree by saying a step down the presidency is never a step down. >> good, i'm glad we agree on that. >> i think he misspoke there, chris. having said that, i truly believe this, i did, and i came to the trump train late. i'm a convert to the trump train. i haven't been drinking trump kool-aid since the very beginning but i've become a true believer. i really believe this. this man, do you think that at this stage of his life, of his fortune, his career, he needs any of this? no, he doesn't. he is doing this because he sees that our country is gravely ill. we are economically and nationally sick -- >> i understand that that's the theory of the case for trump supporters and it's what donald trump says and it's possible that that is actually the case. the other theory of the case -- and it's not just one that
people opposed to him politically believe, but people that share the republican party's beliefs but don't like donald trump is he's fundamentally a narcissist who has become addicted to the attention, is sort of compulsively driven by attention and this has given him an outlet for that attention and crucially doesn't actually care about the party that he is nominally representing in two weeks. >> that's an important point. chris, to your point, and i will concede this to you, there are some people whom i respect who hold those views. i would counter that by saying that generally they are part of a washington establishment that exists for its own self-aggrandizement -- >> yes, i get that. >> -- we are the outsiders and the establishment can't stand what we represent. and by the way, i'm glad they can't because we're not coming there around the edges. >> i can say i get that argument. there's some truth to that. you're talking about this wired part of the establishment.
but the random mormon voters that wanted nothing to do with the guy are now part of the establishment have come to the same conclusion. thank you. congratulations the campaign just bought a bunch of copies of that book. that's money in your pocket. >> well, no, it isn't. i've given away so far $85,000. >> is that true? >> $85,000 in royalties so far this year and i'll continue to give it away to anti- -- pro-immigration causes. >> trying to make sense of he's going to this hotel. he's at doral today. we've got the tape saying he's going to his hotel tomorrow. there's a sense in which it could be the case that the incentives of running for president and getting maximum attention for yourself sometimes align and at some point they stop aligning and you just keep going with the incentives for maximum attention for yourself. >> that's the only incentive he has. so what you said -- poor steve cortez, what a horrible,
horrible job to have to defend this man. and you can see how impossible it is at this point. >> let me just note on steve's behalf and steve believes in what he's saying and i don't doubt for a moment all the people you see on donald trump have not been drafted into it. everyone has entered into it of their own -- >> i don't mean he's doing it against his will. it's a crappy job. no, so i think the point you were making about his need for attention, listen, he has kept upping the ante in terms of getting attention. "the new york times" peace about michael d'antonio's interviews really brought that up again, this desperate feeling that if i'm not getting attention, that i barely exist. he's like -- he's rowing the boat across a river and the promised land is on the other side but there's a hole in the boat and he's bailing, bailing, bailing, and he's bailing so much that he can't actually row the boat. so the promised land is never
going to be reached. >> it's funny you said that because the way this gets understood in the campaign context oh, they're not doing the blocking and tackling, the organizational operational things they need to do in this election, why is he going to his hotel. that's called lack of discipline. >> if you were just lazy, you would offload that to someone else and let them do the work for you. his incentives are not aligned with the republican party. they are part of the time but not all the time. i also wonder if at this point, given his noted inability to deal with shame, humiliation and loss and what seem like epically deep psychic wounds that he carries around, he just wants to go and be in a place that he feels like he created and -- >> right. go back to home. >> go back to somewhere, something that he maybe can feel good about.
>> yeah, he did end today's doral event by just muttering rosebud over and over again. >> no, i think the fascinating -- several different pieces of the trump psyche revealed by what happened today and one of them is this decision not to hold more fund-raisers. what's that about? that's very simple. he's already in revenge mode. >> desperate. >> he wants to get the republican party. and if it means blowing up the republican party, the democracy, whatever it takes, donald trump is going to try to get back some semblance of self-worth. >> and to me, the biggest lesson i've learned up till now with two weeks to go before the election and the thing i have to take myself back to kind of parse is just how powerful a personality can be when it is as not worried about norms or shame as a normal person. like that's been the big lesson.
like, wow, you can really go pretty far and you can get away with a lot. >> at the risk of violating goodwin's law, this is the big lie, that's why it's so powerful. that most people will not accept the fact that you are -- who was it that said that eventually donald trump will go on television and insist he never ran for president? his ability to be so shameless, i think that it's impossible for most people to parse. they assume that there must be something to his grandiose self-presentation because who could be a con man on that big of a scale? >> well -- yeah, go ahead. >> my question to you is the other thing you have to remember about this guy is he's not been a politician. running for electoral office is deeply humbling, not in the way like i'm deeply humbled. you go and shake hands and beg people for your vote and you lose races. he's not gone through that. so huh reacts this last two
weeks is a totally open question. >> i think it's pretty clear how he'll react. he'll keep doing those things that make him feel like it's somebody else's fault that this has happened and he'll keep doing those things that serve his self-interests. the clash of civilizations that really this represents is between self-interest and a greater interest. it's between me and we. thank god it looks like we is going to win because if it doesn't win, the planet isn't going to survive. and if trump -- i really believe that. i believe that we're at a turning point here. >> and there are concentric circles of we, the we of the planet, the we of a whole bunch of stuff. thank you both. the early returns from early voting. president obama's battleground states director on what early
votes tell us about where this race stands two weeks out and why the odds democrats take back the senate are getting better after a quick minute break. on the roaoaagn ♪ [ front assi sounds [ musi on the roaoaagn ♪ [ girl lghs ] ♪ike a band of gypsies weo down the highway ♪ [ beetle horn honk standardeature you gete foless than you expeed hurry and lease for just $199 pa month. would you lp me make art? ♪ each one of or journe ♪ keeps us youn hey, i have an id! ♪ we'll never get old... artygoe amazing! amazing!
announcer: give your cardboard box another fe. woman: how do we protect them from $4 billion in new cuts to california schools? man: vote yes on proposition 55. woman: prop 55 doesn't raise taxes on anyone. man: not on working californians, not small businesses. no one. woman: instead, prop 55 simply maintains the current tax rate on the wealthiest californians. man: so those who can most afford it continue paying their fair share... woman: ...to prevent new education cuts... man: ...and keep improving california's schools.
woman: vote yes on prop 55 to help our children thrive. as donald trump's fortunes continue to slide, he's increasingly dragging the fortunes of senior republicans with him. the cook report saying that senate democrats are poised to pick up five to seven seats which would give them the majority. races in the toss-up column never split down the milled. one party tends to win the lion's share of that. there's not enough time for republicans to recover toss-up seats in the states where hillary clinton is leading. early voting is under way and trump won't be any help especially since his campaign doesn't have a ground game to speak of. between the dnc and state party operations campaign finance reports show democrats employ 5,138 staffers across 15 battleground states.
trump's campaign, the republican national committee employ just 1400 staffers in 16 states. how well does that work for those who turn out for election day. early voting data offers some potential insight. according to "the washington post," the end of saturday, staffers s s celebrated 39,148 people had vetted compared to 33,187 in 2012. no wonder katy perry held a rally for clinton in clark county on saturday literally gave a ride to some attendees to some of the early voting spots afterwards. in a one-two punch, president obama was in the same county the next day. if there's a single person on earth who knows this data inside and out, it's mitch stewart. currently a partner at 270 strategists. i want to start with this before
we get to the early voting data. it's important for folks to understand when you were sitting at your perch in the 2012 campaign and folks were running the operation in clinton's campaign, you're not looking at the real clear politics or 548, you have internal data. what is that made of and what does it say and tell you that we on the inside don't know? >> you have a voter file that has all kinds of different data information on these specific individuals. their vote history, likely candidate preference. all kinds of things that you can look at. what you get then from the county auditor or from the secretary of state are individual level returns. so you know exactly who voted early, and many times you know how they voted early, either in person or by mail. then you can imagine that back to your existing database or voter file. >> and you know enough about those people you sort of profiled the them whether it's
through their age, their education level, their ethnicity to be pretty confident who they're actually voting for based on the models you have. >> no, exactly right. you look at two separate data points. the first is what we call a preference candidate model. every voter will have a score from 100-1. out of 100 mitch stewarts, barack obama would get 1 vote. ten people would vote for barack obama. 90 for mitt romney. you look at that and then you also look at your turnout score. how likely are you to vote if somebody were not to remind you? you have a score of 100-1 on every single voter in that state. what you want to do with early vote, in most states, you want your supporters who have a middling turnout score, folks you aren't superconfident they will vote on election day unless you remind them. you want them to vote early. if somebody lass a high turnout
score, irrespective if you remind them or not. >> you have the two scores. how likely am i to support the candidate that mitch stewart is supporting which would be barack obama -- you want people you are sure will vote for your candidate but in the middle of the propensity to turn out bau you can work on them in this sort of sustained fashion for this period and make sure they get in their own time and choosing. >> that's exactly right. not only do you measure your success from a field operation, you also measure your opponent's success and who are they getting to turn out early? are these getting out election day voters and just doing it early or are they reaching into the people who would be less likely to participate so they're growing their pie? so you look at both. >> you can do something like in 2012, say in a state like nevada, your campaign basically knew who won nevada before election day. >> you will have 80% of nevadans
vote early. we had about a 12-point lead with 80% of the electorate in. the republicans would be literally like a 70-30 win on election day to make up for that early vote deficit. iowa is another example. just 40% voted early and we had about a ten-point lead. on election day republicans had almost an insurmountable gap to fill. you felt very, very comfortable with a couple of those states or you knew that this could be really, really close like florida. so it does provide you some assurance of what's going to happen on election day. but more importantly from a campaign perspective, it allows you to allocate resources more efficiently. so we stopped spending a ton of money in nevada once we realized that 80% of the electorate voted. we wind down the budget there and focus on a state like virginia where 90% of the state
will vote on election day because there's very little vote happening there. >> we'll check in on elizabeth warren who is speaking moments ago. take a listen. >> she gets up every day -- no, i hope you heard donald trump in the debate when he said that he was smart not to pay any taxes. that's right. he is smart and all of you who pay taxes are dumb. everyone who pays taxes. to keep our roads and bridges working is dumb. everyone who pays taxes to support our world class military is dumb. everyone who pays taxes to support medical research and scientific research is dumb. dumb because donald trump doesn't plan to pay. he just plans to use all those things you paid for. what kind of man does that?
a selfish little sleazeball. a man who will never be president of the united states. you bet. now, donald trump's been out there. he hasn't been hiding who he is. he's been out there from the very beginning. he's been out there and where has your senator, richard burr, been all this time? i wanted to look this up, make sure i got this right before i came here. richard burr said make no mistake, i am fully supportive of donald trump. no dancing around that one. so donald trump called latinos rapists and murderers and burr fully sports trump. trump called african-americans thugs and donald trump -- and
burr fully supports donald trump. trump attacked a gold star family and burr fully supports donald trump. trump praised vladimir putin and compared himself to dictators. and burr fully supports donald trump. trump calls women fat pigs and bimbos and brags about sexually assaulting women. and richard burr is like a puppy on a leash sticking right there with donald trump. you know, if richard burr is just going to be donald trump's lapdog, then let him go off and do that, but the people of north carolina need a strong, independent voice to fight for the families of north carolina.
and that is deborah ross. >> that was elizabeth warren speaking in north carolina just a few moments ago in support of deborah ross who is the democratic senate candidate challenging richard burr in a tightly contested race, yolking him to trump. as you just saw. spent many years as a nuclear missile launch officer. if the president gave the order, we had to launch the missile th. i prayed tt callwould ver come. self control m be all at keeps these misses frofiring.
i ulbomb the s[ be ]ut of 'ebe all i want to unpredictable. i lovear. the thoughonald trump with nuclear weapons scares me to death. it should scare everyone. i'hillary clinton and i approve this msa. donald trump has spent his entire presidential xap both obsessed with media coverage and harshly critical of the press. his rhetoric has grown ever harsher in recent weeks as his poll numbers collapsed. >> these people are among the most dishonest people in the world, the media.
they are the worst. they're trying to fix the election for crooked hillary. the media is entitled, condescending and even contemptuous of people who don't share certain elitist views. >> reporters are ritualistic booed when they're escorted into the trump rallies where they stand in pens and heckled while they cover them. this video shows the view from the press area. reporters describe did vitriol they face at trump rallies as increasingly hostile with people flipping middle fingers at them. a trump rally in cleveland buzzfeed reporter rosie gray reported that two men outside the press pen were quoted picking up after one of the men said the word lugenpresser.
>> lugenpresser. >> you said it right. that's right. >> the word that man there was so excited to learn, lugenpresser means lying press in german. and it's the term the nazis used to demonize and the media and stir anti-jew hatred. while trump has traveled further into the fact-free swamp and a cocoon where he doesn't like anything that he says is false. it must be cured if the party is to be saved. we'll break down her diagnosis next. ♪
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beamed out to million of viewers. a fixer for hillary clinton named jack rogan was recently featured as hillary's hit man in a "national enquirer" cover story claiming that clinton is a quote -- and i'm quoting here -- a secret sex freak who paid fixers to set up elicit romps with both men and women. he's an editor of the weekly world news that printed news of hillary's alien abduction complete with photographic evidence. hannity gave rogan a primetime platform in spite of admitting the network could not verify his claims. rush limbaugh claimed the mainstream media would not ignore this if it was about trump. would you think that "the
national enquirer" allegation of a guy saying he's procured women for hillary would even make its way -- well, of course not, but if the story was about trump, it would. >> this less than impeccable source makes the rounds of the right, limbaugh, drudge, hannity. championed by drudge and who today called into the limbaugh show to complain of what of all things, the mainstream media. >> hethese are vicious people. these are lying people. they're evil people, the press, the media. they're bad people. and nobody, nobody lies like they do. >> joining me now catherine rampell. the only way to save the republican party drain the right-wing media swmp. >> when trump gets the trouncing that erybody expects, the republican party will regroup and say, what's our autopsy this time around? if they're going to lay it at the feet of donald trump and say, you know, if we'd only had
a candidate with maybe the same package or policies but a little more empathic gloss, a little less boorish, less bigoted, hadn't been caught on tape saying he harassed women. that's wrong. the problem is not donald trump, the problem is that a large share of their base believes completely bonkers bigoted things. they've been fed this again and again over year business the right wing -- >> what do you mean by bonkers bigoted things. >> birtherism, data trutherism. >> is that like large significant parts of fox viewers and conservatives and republicans that think that all the economic data is being juiced. >> the polls are skewed. even the fox news polls are skewed these days according to the republican base. beyond that, you know, that the weather numbers that we get are wrong. you know, that matt drudge had recently said that nobody should evacuate their homes when a
hurricane was coming. >> right, a liberal media conspiracy. >> it was a conspiracy. the numbers were made up, the projections were made up to gin up fear about global warming. >> the idea is that there's this sort of context tu wal environment in which trump has flourished and the environment is more important than trump because the environment is the environment that's so self-contained and untethered from connections to external reality that you can have a candidate like this -- >> yes, basically the alt-right for years has created an alternate reality that has ultimately led to trump. >> you mean the right. >> the alt-right. >> i think i would say that there's a self-identified white nationalists of the alt-right. it's larger than that. >> i don't mean to paint all conservative leaning journalists with the same brush, those that are pedalling crazy conspiracy theories saying that obamaas not born in the united states, there sort of thing. >> that's part of the issue
because there's tons of conservative journalists and writers and folks at fox. there are places that people have integrity. they're opinionated with an ideological ax to grind but who doesn't have one. phil klein has been reporting on obamacare, conservative, doesn't like obamacare, is embedded in the facts of what obamacare is, there's subject matter, knowledge, there's expertise, all these things. that's a very small group of these folks with a very small -- >> and my concern is that republican leadership has been playing along for years with these conspiracy theorizers. >> they're controlled by them. they're terrified of them. look what happened to eric cantor in his primary race to david bratt when basically right wing radio decided to take him on. >> so i think there are two issues going on here, why they haven't been willing to take on the crazies essentially. one is that they desperately need the imprimatur of these places because they're influential, handy is
influential, drudge, whoever else, if they tick them off, they'll potentially lose those voters. to some extent the conspiracy theories have served their interests, in the short term. the popular mandate of the first black president, maybe that was useful to their cause in the near term, but in the long run it stoked a lot of racial resentment. the same thing with clinton voter fraud. >> it has been extremely useful. but in the pretext by which they passed actual pieces of legislation that made it harder for actual populations that actually vote for democrats in large numbers to vote. >> yes, and in the long run it set the stage for a presidential candidate to explain to his many voters that the election will be sto stolen from them. today a large share of republicans in particular believe that that election will be stolen. >> i think that it's absolutely the case and you're seeing it in
its sort of death throes now. karl rove in 2012 saying it's not over. but then they just went back to the script. the big question for the right is do they go back to the script or is there some kind of reckoning and catherine rampell, thanks for joining me. proud of y, son. ! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grdpappy's hammer and would have wanted y to have it. it meant aot to him... yes, ge makespowerful . bui'lle writing the code yes, ge makespowerful . that will allow those machines to shai' be changi the y the worlworks. (interrupting) you n't pick it up, can you? go ahead.hean't lift th. it's okay though! u're going to changethe wor. on a perfect c, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raes your rates... maybe yoshld've done more research on them.
for drivers with accident forgiveness, libertmutual won't raise ur rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance the bonus thing 1 thing 2 tonight without commercial break in the middle. where he or she stands on their own nominee for president. because there are distinct categories. those who have always backed donald trump like for instance senator jeff sessions. there are a select few who have maintained never trump like senator ben sask, charlie baker and a handful of congress members. there were those who decided
relatively early to oppose, mark kirk, lindsey graham, susan collins and those who stood with trump until october through all the nasty statements, banning an entire religion, but finally threw in the towel after the infamous audio of trump bragging about grabbing women by the genitals. that list of late trump unendorsers includes john mccain, kelly ayotte and senate candidate joe heck of nevada. the supporters who heard trump on that bus bragging about sexual assault and defiantly proceeded to unendorse trump and call for him to step down only to then days or weeks later reendorse trump. this crowd has supported and opposed in disgust before reendorsing him, john thune, deb fischer and mike crapo. then there's pat toomey. who will be in charge of the
nuclear codes. pat toomey has his own answer. and that's thing 2 tonight. see, for the entire general election, senator pat toomey has simply refused to say whether or not he'll support the gop nominee. he won't endorse nor will he rule out voting for donald trump. he won't give a simple direct answer one that every single american has to answer for themselves all of which made for an interesting debate last night. >> i know you have been waiting for this debate. in fact, i know you've been waiting for this moment to say whether or not you will vote for the nominee of your party. so is it yea or nay? >> so, jim, unlike katie mcginty, i'm not a hyperreflexive ideologue who thinks he has to give blind obedience to his party's nominee. >> so i guess that means you haven't been waiting for this debate? >> i have refused to endorse donald trump. katie mcginty says that's supporting donald trump. that doesn't make any sense.
>> look, i'm not going to badger you to say something that you're not going to say, but don't you think your constituents, the people of pennsylvania deserve to know if you're going to support the nominee of your party? >> i don't think my constituents care that much how one person is going to vote. they're going to make their own decision. something new has arrived. ♪ iquely designed fo the driven. intring the rst-ever infiniti qx30 0 ossover. visit your loc infiniti retailer today. infiniti. power the drive. naator: adventure start isn forest.re but theo kubo: i spy somethg ginbeetle: snow. kubo: no. beetle: snow cored trees. monkey: noing too with snow. rrator: headutside to discover incredible animals
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u.s. service member. 34-year-old chief petty officer was attached to a navy s.e.a.l. team advising troops. he was in a vehicle and telling other members of his team he had spotted a roadside bomb when he was killed. he leaves behind a wife and a 7-year-old son. the stakes of this battle with both american and iraqi troops in harm's way are clear and progress has been steady in first week of the operation. iraq's prime minister says the offensive is going faster than planned. u.s. command says iraqi forces are making solid progress. but the attack on mosul is turning out to be a total disaster. we gave them months of notice. the u.s. is looking so dumb. vote trump and win again. that tweet prompting this response from secretary clinton. >> i was so appalled when donald trump tweeted that the new effort under way to push the terrorists out of the key city of mosul is already, and i quote
him, a total disaster, and that our country is again a, quote, looking dumb. really? he's declaring defeat before the battle has even started? he's proving once again he is unqualified to be commander in chief of our military. >> we are right now as a nation in the midst of choosing someone to command the most powerful, most deadly military on earth. it is not just mosul or the fight against isis that will be in the new president's portfolio. right now the u.s. is, get this, conducting air strikes or missile strikes with special ops, troops the on the ground in at least six different countries. yemen, libya, somalia, afghanistan, iraq and syria. that is what the next president will inherit in our era of constant war. that's what's front of mind for military members and their families and it should be front of mind for every voter. ♪
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miami this morning flanked by about 200 of his employees and tried to make the point that obamacare is a disaster for them. >> you can say all of my employees are having a tremendous problem with oba obamacare. you folks, this soot grogroup, another statement, this is horrible because of obamacare. >> except the vast majority is not on obamacare because their health care is provided by their employer donald trumps a resort. it seemed to catch a local camera operator by surprise. i'd say 99% of our employees are insured through the hotel, through our insurance and maybe there's a few that are insured through obamacare. but very, very few. i would say -- and i haven't gone flu the records, but over 95%, without a doubt. >> a short time later on fox news trump was asked how his employees are hurt by obamacare. >> a moment ago at your event in florida we're watching it live here in new york, you said that
it's costing jobs within your business itself. specifically how? >> -- obamacare, i must be honest with you, because it's so bad for the people and they can't afford it. i'm at trump international doral in miami and we don't even use obamacare. we don't want it. >> joining me now political reporter for "the new york times" and msnbc contributor. the perfect moment to me for two reasons, one it displays donald trump's general level of sort of policy expertise. and number two, most americans still now in 2016 don't know what obamacare is, couldn't tell you what it is, or who it affects. it's become this kind of culture war issue or symbolic thing. can you put a creche in the public square? >> you know, and if you called it trumpcare, it would probably poll better or call it like powellcare, it's the social with
president obama that drove down the approvals. obviously for some people the premiums are going up, it will be a hardship, but much more than the exchanges. the gaurns on coverage and parents plans. >> you're saying the bill itself, the law itself. you can stay on till you're 26 there's a whole lot of laws about pushing the cost down and innovation in medicare and medicaid delivery and health systems and integrated care and there's no lifetime maximums, yada, yada, but a tiny percentage of voters are in there. >> but if we're dealing with a candidate who had any grasp of public policy or the idea of how to talk to voters 13 days before an election, we might see someone who could frame -- >> could make that argument. >> very clearly. this is a horrible day for sort of obamacare and ergo hillary clinton. trump can't help but make everything either, a, about himself or he doesn't much knew,
know about obama, the language of this man is deplorable. he didn't seize the opportunity to break it down to the public. everyone is there asking him questions about it. he could have walked them through it briefly. >> to me it remains -- so we were talking about there's 3% of the people who are roughly insured should get their insurance through the exchanges. 80% of them are subsidized, more or less, we're talking about 1% of people that get the full heft of this subsidy increase. there are 7 million people who are not on the exchanges but are buying plans, individual plans or small plans so they'll also see the premium hikes. this is the a small percentage of voters. this law as controversial as the day it passed is actually a thing out there in the world which i have to say continues to astound me. because i don't think that was the expectation. >> i think president obama was
not great about selling it in the early years. that's one problem. they tried to rectify that. i do think that the reason the focus is on the exchanges is that the exchanges are the broken part. and the interests that want to kill obamacare would not want to focus on the parts that are very, very popular, such as you can't be denied coverage for a prior condition and if the conditions were such that you could focus on the popular part, it would probably be a different conversation. kind of weird that none of the democrats or the gop has managed to really steer that conversation in the presidential election. >> but here's what i want to ask you as a political scientist, i sort of feel in the long run that the sort of lines of politics and policy should converge, right? if there's something that there's a lot of scare tactics and it will destroy america and turn us into this socialist monster and the thing happens and it's not that but maybe has some broken parts but opinion would converge on it but instead a health reporter called it like roe v. wade, there's no convergence on the sense it's
just as polarizing. people have their fixed views about these things despite the fact that it's an operating thing that you can empirically assess. >> that goes back to nick's point when obama did something that fdr couldn't do, something lbj couldn't do and william jefferson clinton couldn't do and he passed obamacare and put his name on it. he took the negative. >> they put his name on it. >> exactly. but he never framed this. we saw it with the stimulus package and the affordable care act. there's still so much confusion and misinformation from the very beginning we're still sort of seeing how this has played out eight years after the fact. >> there's fascinating science that shows people's perceptions of what it is and what it constitutes and who it helps are crazy skewed. people perceive the stimulus bill and obamacare to be aimed at black people that it's not true which accounts for the hatred and resistance to it.
>> who benefits from it. >> he's done very few racially targeted policies. you know, he is under the -- for better or worse, but you know all -- what is it, all tides lift all boats? yes, so there's going to be certain segments of the population that are disaffected good or bad but this is not a racially targeted policy by any stretch of the imagination. >> but that doesn't mean the perception of it -- >> perception becomes reality. >> democrats thought this would be a real boon to them. bill clinton said pass it, people will love it. that will be a political boon. that's not been the case. it's not the kryptonite that republicans believe. republicans keep thinking obamacare is so terrible. you want to reject this. >> look at the demographics. not getting republicans rich. there are certain republicans who are destitute and they realize a small segment realize that this is actually what's been keeping them afloat. >> that's true. >> so many people are one injury away from -- >> yeah. >> but also like with people on the exchanges, the people
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