hampshire which will be a town hall, same format as sunday's debate here on cnn. dana bash joins us with the details and political strategy behind this. this basically seems like an obvious dry run for sunday night. >> one source told me it was a scrimmage. they really want donald trump to kind of retain his muscle memory from town halls. he hasn't done as many town halls as chris christie or john mccain who basically lived in new hampshire where a town hall is part of the political tdna there. but the fact is they want him to be in an intimate settic just like on sunday night. they have chosen the place where chris christie had his first down hall when he announced for president in 2016. and chris christie is involved in trying to get donald trump ready stylistically for the idea
said, explicitly to me and others that what made him success flfl that debate. he had the practice. one texted me as it was going on last night, practice practice, it matter. i spoke to a source familiar with trump's debate strategy and i said are you going to fly some of pence's people into trump tower to help him and the answer was of course not. they could not be more different. what difference would it make? it couldn't matter. >> and hillary clinton is taking a liter schedule and focussing on debates. >> gre. she's doing what she did before the first debate. the debate team now has shifted back. i will say that trump's schedule is clear on friday. he's not going campaign and he's going to be prepping. >> stay with us. i want to brick in the rest of the panel.
the fact that trump is doing this, essentially run-through town hall for those who said he didn't prepare enough it will certainly i assume come as good news. >> i think so. look, i think inside the trump campaign there is a sense that donald trump needs the practice. and that the only way to get him to focus is to actually have this dry run or scrimmage, as dma is calling it. and i think it could really help him. however we're all going to be watching it. don't forget. so he's going to be judged on this town hall before he does the one on sunday night. and it doesn't work with donald trump to say be like mike. that is not going to work with for him. so he's going to be donald trump. >> how concerned are you that a town hall format might not be to his greatest strength? >> i think the moderator is going to be a concern on sunday night.
he's tough. bold. brash. anderson cooper is going to be there he's going to be tough on donald trump. he's going to be tough on anybody but think what people don't remember in the process is donald trump did a lot of town halls. in salem, some in london the day before the primary. won in rochester, new hampshire. in iowa. donald trump did one in virginia on monday with the veterans. this has been a consistent message. who most people are accustomed to are large scale rally wills donald trump talks for 40 minutes. and hopefully what you are going to see is donald trump at his best interacting in a small environment one on one with those people and really answering their questions and really hopefully getting a head start, if you will on what the questions are that will be asked on sunday night. hopefully the same concerns people have sunday night will be addressed tomorrow night in new hampshire. >> and as a trump supporter are you worried he's not taking enough time off in advance of
this debate? >> no i think friday is good to take that time in the mock town hall tomorrow is good. the veterans town hall. he just had that on monday. he does very well in this format. i think back to the commander ner chief town hall. where the consensus is donald trump did better. they were upset that hillary clinton, how she appeared in a town hall. he did well because of the simple fact he likes people. he's got at engaging with people. take hillary clinton. she seems to hold in contempt anyone who disagrees with her. so i think he likes people and engages with people in a real way and hillary clinton does not. >> is there consensus among republican there is a donald trump needs this debate? needs to do much better? >> yes. 100%. 110% if that is possible. amongst republican whose like donald trump, those who don't. those who are his nearest and dearest say he needs do better.
and that means saying on the message of what he wants to talk about as much as possible and don't get into a tit for tat with hillary clinton as much as he tries to go to him which is tlo question he'll try to do again. >> there is till zoing to be tit for tat. but whether it is on policy or. >> her terms or his. >> or her terms. how concerned are you ? the stakes are high for hillary clinton. she comes in with wind at her back but the pressure is on to keep that going. >> that is right. and i think expectations manage at this point. i agree with the first part of what she said. there is a format that works good for donald trump. he does engage people really well. i think hillary clinton depending on the person it can be hit or miss. so i'm concerned there is a question that comes up and she comes across as guard order protected and that is normally when she comes across as not
likable. i will say i've seen several videos where she's been in the town hall and gone very very well. essential things are on her side and that is all the more reason i think the clinton campaign and clinton supporters have a lot more to worry about. >> i would agree. and the clinton campaign and spoupporters across the board should always be concerned. that is how you win: the lead nationally in every battleground state now especially in ohio, i would say to clinton supporters, don't believe them. get out and vote and mobilize and make sure donald trump never gets to the white house that is basithe only way that will happen. and anything can happen. i actually agree with corey. i think this town hall format will be good for donald trump because it can keep him boxed him. he won't have a teleprompter or notes but he'll have the kind of parameters of the moderators,
the people in front of him that i think will keep him much more managed. >> or at least i think that is what the campaign hopes. >> if the king of town halls is john kasich. >> he did more than a hundred in new hampshire. >> he emotes and hugs people. he was great anyway in that format. i actually disagree with you guys. i think that donald trump has had some difficulty at town halls. and you have done them with him. he doesn't address the the person directly. he turbid and talked to you. didn't seem to embrace the person who asked the question or ask that person more questions about their question which hillary clinton does really well. and your town hall, one of the key moments so far for hillary clinton is when she said she's not a natural politician and said that at a town hall. donald trump has not sort of oured part of his personal self.
in any of these settings. even when people were asking for it. and i think that is a difficult part for him. doesn't want to share that way. >> we're going continue this conversation with the panel in just a moment throughout the evening. of course the two human resouou on. on sunday starting at 4:00 eastern time. as corey mentions it'll be ducking out for a bit to actually moderate. and our cnn live coverage duets under way at 4:00 eastern time. and just ahead eric trump on whether his dad pays federal income taxes. and the line from last night's debate that became a head line and what latino voters are saying about it when we continue.
federal income tax for ulta 18 years. we did talk with dana bash and here is the answer he gave. >> has your father paid federal income taxes. >> we pay a tremendous amount of income taxes. >> federal income taxes. >> yes. and beyond taxes we also employ tens and tens of thousand os people. >> eric my question now is he has paid federal income taxes over the last 15 years, yes or no. >> of course. absolutely. my father pays a tremendous amount of tax. we vas a company pay a tremendous amount of tax. >> if we ever see your father's federal income taxes it will show -- >> no question about it. he pays federal income taxes. >> for some this puts the answers to rest. few people have dug deeper than --. i spoke to him earlier this evening.
when eric trump insists his father had paid federal income tax, based on your reporting over the years are you skeptical? >> well i'm not really sure anderson what anything is that eric trump has sceeen. i think both of the trump boys tend to get their father in hot water whenever they speak up on these issues. i think the returns in question go back, you know, two decades. and eric trump is i think his early thirties. so i'm not really -- i doubt that his father was showing him all the tax returns when he was a toddler. that being said, i think one of the interesting things that's dwo gone on in this debate off the "new york times" story is that there is a lot of focus on the legality of this massi ivive
deduction he took. in fact the writeoff represent an epic business failure. it is i think representative of about 9 hundr$9 hundred million of loans he guaranteed personally in the late 1980s and all of it, all of it ended up in a giant train wreck. he bought airlines, hotels. he overleveraged his casino business. and he ended up with a ton of debt he couldn't repay because he overpaid for properties. he didn't think far enough ahead about the prospects for the various businesses he was entering and classic donald trump decision making. he's actually a very undisciplined, short-term, non strategic thinker. and that writeoff is a big numeric emblem of that tendency
he has. >> you know, obviously trump could put all of these questions to rest by releasing his tax returns. he says he won't release them while he's under audit even though there is nothing preventing him from doing that. and by his lawyers own admission his returns from 2002-2008 are no longer under audit. >> and by the way anderson the trump campaign has not given any proof to anyone they are actually under audit. they could release the letter interest the irs showing that to be the case and they haven't. secondly, even if there were an audit -- and they haven't made that clear -- that would prevent him from releasing anything. that is just not -- all of the audit stuff a red herg. >> as somebody who was sued by
trump for writing that he wasn't as rich as he claimed he was -- a suit that was dismissed by the way -- how much does something like that actually bother him? >> i think it bothers him immensely. for all his bluster and bullying and bragging, he's immensely insecure about some very fundamental things. and one of them is his sense of himself. and he -- his net worth and how rich he is, and where he figures on the pecking order is much more important to him than it is to anyone else. no one cares about his wealth as much as donald trump himself carries about it. >> appreciate it you being on. thanks. still plenty of questions out there. back with the panel. dana you had that conversation with eric trump. does that settle anything? or does it raise more questions? >> no. i think questions that were out there remain. there was only so much time and
there were a wloft unanswered questions even as he was answering the questions. one of which frankly looking back i should have been specific. personal income taxes or income taxes or maybe the obvious is he said he'd seen them. did you see the check, how do you actually know he paid the income taxes? it was his knee jerk reactions as the son of somebody who's under fire to try to put it to bed by saying yes because that was the only answer seemed like he could give. but we don't know. >> donald trump, even him not releasing the actual return, the full returns which are obviously very large has eric trump pointed out in the past. he could just ak a knowledge one way or the other whether he did or did not pate personal income tax as result of this writeoff. >> he did release a statement saying i paid hundreds of
millions in -- taxes. federal taxes was part of that. i think this whole "new york times" story is emblematic of the reason he shouldn't release his taxes. they put on a headline that says donald trump could have not paid income taxes for 18 years. since when do we have speculatery head lines with no basis to make that fact other than the fact there is a loss claim on a tax form. there is no proof me didn't pay taxes. why would you release hundreds of pages that could be misconstrued by the media. >> he could release his information. what he paid and made and charitable contributions without releasing all pages. >> i think it is irrelevant at this point. the issues that are affects american people today -- job,
immigration, their own personal tax, burden of washington d.c. regulations. look if people want to dwell on donald trump's taxes, they are welcome to do that. that does nothing to set the agenda moving forward. and what we do know is 11% of people think hillary clinton is honest and trust worthy. and 55 points in the wrong direction if you think the country is on the right track or the wrong track. the american people don't carolina -- they care about jobs and safety. >> they are so tone deaf when it comes to these issues poll after poll, multiple majorities of mesh people. trump supporters. believe wurm number one stacks are the civic duty and people should pay them. and above 70% believe he should release his taxes. and put legality aside. it is unseamly when you have a multi billionaire who touts his
business ak meyou men and how rh he is every 18 seconds and then there was a news article today how about back 1978 and 79 he did a lot of losses so not just he didn't pay taxes but his business acumen is. >> if you want to buy the argument he had a good accountant and he didn't have to pay taxes. a question is where are his investments? what potential conflicts of interest are there with foreign governments? particularly since he's said i'm going the hand over my business to my kids. and they will still be running that business. these are the things that would be outlined in a tax return. not just the bottom line and not the charitable and all --
these are serious foreign policy issues. i think the public deserves answers. >> on that point certainly. but there is at point and that is, this is the same person who's called for transparency from potential opponents from this opponent. he's asked for wall street transcripts. he's asked president obama whechbs just thinking about a run for a birth certificate. so why would not not meet the very staple standard. one of the famous lines is he's not even meeting the nixon standard. >> donald trump said in the first debate he'll release his full tax returns as soon as hillary clinton releases 33,000 e-mails. very clear. and more over he did call for hillary clinton to release her transcripts from those wall street speeches and she refused to do that as well. where she's made 10s of memos from executives. if you want to see donald
trump'd holdings. go to elections and commissions and poult the piece of paper with the properties he owns and the -- >> there is a lot of -- >> totally different. >> -- not in those documents that would be in the tax returns. >> yes. no question about it. the federal -- the financial disclosure has some information. but not nearly as much as you would learn by what he pays or doesn't pay in taxes with with regard to hisregard to his company. >> if hillary clinton, if none of her tax information was out there, wouldn't the trump campaign or any opponent be raising lots of red flags about that. >> i think congress has put in place laws that suggest what we complaint expect of someone running for the highest office in the land. you fill out financial disclosure furm. donald trump did that. we have a law that required her
to keep the e-mails that she disobeyed. one candidate has violated transparency laws. and thaz hillary clinton. >> nub of that has been proven. >> it has been -- >> no no -- [inaudible]. >> -- by a -- continue to say there is no law that donald trump has got to release his taxes. but the fact of the matter is that again for 40 years this has been the standard. and the american people expect that. for all the reasons that we just talked about. the most important one i do believe is what gloria mentioned. when you have someone who we know has a very strong bromance with vladimir putin and you have somebody that we already know has connections with chinese banks who owe, who actually own the debt that he holds. and he is asking us to give him the position of commander in
chief when he would have the ability to pass laws and to be favorable -- >> -- [indiscernible]. >> -- [inaudible]. >> i know you ignore the fbi director when it is not convenient -- >> sure. [inaudible] >> we got take a break. more with our panel ahead. mike pence has been getting good reviews for his debate performance. also controversy about his comment about the mexican thing. and the deadly hurricane barrelling towards the u.s. tonight, where it's head and how bad the damage could be picking up for kyle.
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are rapist or criminalsful or john mccain is not a hero he's showing you who he is. >> senator. you whip t out that mix can thing again. >> can you defend it? >> aliens who have come into this country illegally and perpetrated violence and taking american lives. >> -- >> he also said and many of them are good people. you keep leaving that out of your quote. >> that mexican thing sparked a lot of discussion. joining me -- your reaction to what the governor said last night about whipping out that mexican thing again? >> well what can i tell you? i giggled a lit bit because i thought it was a weird phrase. for a while i thought maybe anthony weiner had gone crazy celebrating national taco day
which was yesterday. but when he was part of the republican conference he was a very compassionate man who supported and spoke up in immigration reform. so i give him the benefit of the doubt. but most of america doesn't know mike pence. and only knows him as donald trump's running mate. and whirn the running mate of a man who's spoken about mexicans and said some are rapists and said this things about mexicans for 16, 17 months now. somebody who's attacked a judge for being of mexican heritage. an indiana born judge. from the state that mike pence represents you don't get the benefit of the doubt from most americans and we've seen it turned into a hashtag, a rallying call for a lot of latinos. >> do you think it is actually going to hurt him in the latino community? look at the latest national polling on the latino hispanic vote. donald trump winning 17% of likely hispanic voters.
and secretary clint 65%. that was before the debates. do you think this hurts? >> i'll be the first to concede we're not doing great among vote oefrs color and by the way the republican party hasn't finish me wlex cycles so this is hardly now donald trump. >> it has done better in years past. >> what matters to me as an hispanic is he went down to mexico and i thought acted very presidential when he met with president nieto down there and he said that the mexican american community is a treasure to the united states. e we need and we love legal immigration. and no one by the way is mored a versusly affected by legal immigration than legal immigrants. they are the ones most cheated when we say it is okay illegals
to hop the line and get in front of them to. we are going to get control of our border. we love immigration. he's the son of an immigrant. married to an immigrant. we know what immigration does to the united states in terms of culture, vitality. but we've been right as a people to do it through legal means. >> and there are only key states with largely hispanic populations. it is not monolithic population by any means. is it possible the way governor pence handled donald trump's statements on undocumented immigrants how he pivoted away from trump's cross-talk about conservative deportation that might help some conservatives vote for trump. >> there are some conservative latino voters but they are the huge minority. the very small minority. i came to this country legally too. i came by plane. i did it legally. but i also understand and i think most latinos have the
empathy to understand that but for the grace of god there go i. i came as an eight-year-old girl. but could very well have been a dream ad girl. had not my parents not had the money to hire lawyers and make me legal the way they did. i could have been one of those girls who found out when they were 19 and going into college that i was illegal. but for the grace of god i realized that wasn't the case because i was a lucky and fortunate one. but because this campaign has preyed on latinos, has preyed on immigrants. has made it a pillar of their campaign to attack hispanics and attack immigrants and make it one of the things they stand on they don't get the benefit of the doubt. and -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> -- donald trump has made it so since june 16th when he first announced and called mexicans
rapist. it wasn't me, steve. it was donald trump who went on the attack against mexicans from day one of this campaign. >> steve go ahead. >> what you are doing is you are trying to make the illegal immigrants the victims. they are breaking the law. the victims are not illegals. people who break our immigration laws, people who come here in a way not allowed by our laws. the victims are the american people. >> steve, anna is talking about language that your candidate, the candidate you are supporting has used when you hear some of the lack she's used, do you have any problems with it? >> anderson i'll be the first to say particularly early in the campaign i didn't like the tone. and i think he alienated some hispanics unnecessarily. i think we're doing our very very best to win them over now and try to convince voters of color whether hispanics or african americans that the democratic party has taken you for granted and pandered to you whether it is illegal immigration or schools or
economic opportunity and what we are saying is we have a better way forward for you. and part of it by the way for legal hispanics is that illegal immigration is a non start are for us. >> okay. i got to go. >> and -- >> there is a reason why your hispanic advisory council has shrunk every day. they are ashamed of the words donald trump has used and you should begin by not calls us voters of color and understanding that african american, muslims, hispanics we are all different people with different priorities and -- >> mike pence and tim kaine will both be on new day tomorrow morning. a closer look at the impact gary johnson and jill stein can have, my conversation with ralph nader next. smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it.
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[indiscernible] . are you supporting any particular candidate this president -- >> no because what i would like do is comment favorably or unfavorably on what they do or say. >> if as the choins between hillary clinton or donald trump do you see much difference? >> of course. but they both flunk. the country deserves a lot better. a failed gambling czar who became a corporate welfare king that's cheated his way to a billion dollars. >> and the secretary clinton. >> more wall street, more war. a hawk that scares the generals. the libya disaster. she over raid gait whose didn't want to top teple the regime in libya because of the chaos. >> what will you do on election day if you don't like any candidates? >> there are third parties and
there are write ins. >> you know the argument about spoilers. you have called the whole idea of a spoiler candidate as the politically bigoted word. >> the two major party candidates never call each other spoilers. it is only directed to a third party candidate who is considered someone who takes votes away. if you have equal right to run for election, then we are all trying to get votes or so we're trying to spoil one another or none of us are spoilers. >> there are some folks watching the polls and saying that hillary clinton is having a hard time getting some millennial voters who were -- you i peel to back then who are also went for president obama. if gary johnson or jill stein are taking votes from hillary clinton but don't have an actual chance of getting into the white house themselves, aren't they by defense spoilers. >> not at all. why don't major candidates take
away votes from johnson and stein. -- in the 190s, he took away some of his platform. so this idea of scapegoating. whining, constantly whining in instead of the democratic party looking at themselves in the mirror. they have been fiddling in the house of representatives trying to assemble all the bad republican votes they passed in the house. they still haven't come out with it. >> so if donald trump won on election day and it is a close election you don't think or hillary clinton won, that the third party candidates would have had anything to do with that. >> not when they are at one, two, three percent. and they are both going to shrink from the present polls. they will be lucky to get 1 or 2%. >> in. so states they are doing double digits. >> there are all kind of sine que non. like in florida. 300,000 registered democrats voted for bush. the secretary of state with her
shenanigans. the butterfly ballot misidentifying thousands as exfelons, taking away their vote. the supreme court decision selecting 5-4 george w. bush. there are a lot of seen sine que nones. >> and i would be surprised if by pushing gore he made critical comments on corporation, oil companies and stronger on the environment that he got far more votes than whatever would have -- >> you actually think by being in the race -- >> yes. when you are at that small level percentage that we were. just a surge of getting out the vote in wisconsin because they thought that the green party was nibble away at them, you know, ensured them gets wisconsin. >> do you think about how the world would be different had you not run in 2000. >> i think the result would have been george w. bush.
there was a poll right after the election. without me in it and he won it. but look how crazy it is, anderson. we have an election where gore won by 550,000 votes national and the electoral college took it a way from him, this crazy electoral it's scapegoating at its worst. the democrat party doesn't want to look itself in the mirror and ask itself, why isn't it land sliding the worst republican party in history and defending the country? they don't want to look at those. they're dialing for the same commercial dollars. >> thank you very much. >> you're welcome. coming up, breaking news. after battering the caribbean and killing ten people, hurricane matthew heads for florida. we'll get the latest. hrimp. and try as much as you want of flavors like new parmesan peppercorn shrimp. just come in before it ends.
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southeast of west palm beach. it is getting closer and closer. this is the latest advisory. winds 115 miles an hour. gusts of 150. strong category 3 storm. moving to the northwest at 12 miles an hour. it is going to restrengthen. we are thinking that it is starting to get a little better organized and it will have time to strengthen into a possible category 4 storm just off the coast of say, miami-dade, broward counties. thursday afternoon. 130-mile-per-hour winds. and then either brush the coast of florida, move inland, or stay out to sea. see where this cone is of uncertainty. so all of these different scenarios will mean huge differences in the impacts that are felt. this storm jogs a little more to the west. it could mean much more
far-reaching impacts. it does look like it is going to loop back to the north and east by the time we get into the weekend. and then a lot of uncertainty from there. some of the models are showing this actually bending back around and impacting florida for a second time. as we get into the middle part of next week. a lot of uncertainty there. one thing we are certain of, this will have huge impacts for florida and the southeast coasts in the coming days. >> up next, our second hour of 3 360. more on how hillary clinton and donald trump are getting ready for the town hall debate. woah!
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your government and the united states government seems to be miles apart on the syria issue, ukraine and other issues. did you feel that you've cleared up any of those issues you mentioned earlier today since you've had those discussions with secretary tillerson? >> we did discuss at length the future role for assad, whether it be in a future political process or not. clearly our view is that the reign of the assad family is coming to an end. and they have, again, brought this on themselves with their conduct and war these past few years. we discussed our view that russia, as their closest ally in the conflict, perhaps has the best means of helping assad recognize this reality. we do think it's important that assad's departure is done in an orderly way, an orderly way, so
achieved. this is a very high legal hurdle in order to bring such charges against an individual, so i would not suggest to you that all of that evidence is in place. but i think the longer time goes by, it's possible that the case will be made. there are certain individuals who are working to make that case. >> i for one would like to say that i do not think russia and the u.s., it cannot be breached on in issues of the international agenda, both with regard to syria and ukraine, it's not impossible. in our introduction remarks with mr. tillerson we mentioned the agreement that related not just to preserve it, but also to intensify the communication channels with regard to syria
and ukraine. for syria and bashar al-assad. we have had sort of a historical background. rex said that he's a new guy and not looking to make history, but to deal with the matters of today. the thing is, the world is built in such a fashion that if we do not take lessons from the past, we will hardly be able to keep success and the president. and i record certain situations when groups of countries, primarily western countries, major countries, were fixated on eliminated the to tatalitarium
order to oust the former president of yugoslav sra. they launched a war in 1999. a tv station was bombed, which incidentally as a military crime, however you interpret the geneva convention. residential areas were shelled. the chinese embassy was also attacked. civil trains and bridges were bombed. the shelling went on for three months. and then they ran out of targets that could be qualified as double use facilities. there was another dictator,
sadam hussein who was hanged when no invasion was justified. since then i think tony blair was the only one to defend publicly, admitting that it had been a fake, or the ground for the iraq invasion. there was another one, moamargadafi. it had been said there was no place for the man in that country and that democracy would prevail, but we know full well what is happened in libya. the libyan state is all but nonexistent. our president talked about that yesterday with the italian president. right now we're trying to restore the libyan statehood through reconciliation. we're trying to put an end to the situation in which this
country turned into a channel of human trafficking, as your media reported today. incidentally, there are other examples, not so recent. the president of sudan, there has been a warrant for his arrest issued by the international court and civilly the obama administration decided to settle this problem, sudan had to be split into two parts. south sudan was established and the obama administration tried to help them secure al-bashar's agreement to this splitting up. president bashar held up his end of the bargain.
on anyone or assad or anyone else as they do in libya. we want them to sit at one negotiating table. as a resolution state, they have all gathered together. this has to be with syrian dialogue. as the council resolution states the future of syria has to be determined by the syrians themselves without any exception. the most important thing is not to eliminate a political leader from the chess board, so to speak, but to agree on how the country is going to be built. it has to be democratic. has to be secular, which is something the high negotiations committee speaks against. all ethnic and religious groups have to feel safe, have to feel represented at government
agencies. and only if such a consensus is achieved, which has to be done for elaborating a new constitution will the issues related to certain personalities be settled very efficiently without any tragic consequences for the country or for their people. >> thank you. comments and news people, please. >> your question? >> thank you. i have got a question to secretary tillerson. have you talked today about the alleged interference of russia into the american election? in what way do you think russia's actions are different from the american actions in cyber security in accordance with what the american media say we know that the iranian nuclear program was compromised by american created virus right
now. u.s. is trying to present the north korea from using the same means. and another question to both men. a working group has been set up talking about resuming the work of the presidential commission. do you plan to do that? thank you. >> we touched on it briefly, on the issue of cyber security and, in particular, on the challenges that it is placing on everyone, in terms of a new threat, an emerging threat. i think i do make a distinction when cyber tools are used to interfere with the internal decisions among countries as to how their elections is conducted. that is one use of cyber tools. cyber tools to disrupt weapons programs, that's another use of the tools. and i make a distinction between
world. without resorting to the procedures that exist between russia and the u.s., they started to detain these hackers and prosecute them after extraditing them from third countries. back then we said we were not interested, and our citizens being involved in these crimes. therefore, we suggested that a special mechanism should be created that would exchange information in real-time about anyone trying to breach the international or national norms of both russia and the u.s., the obama administration refused. they didn't respond, but then at the end of the obama administration in november last year, they proposed that we should meet certainly our relevant government agencies
agreed, but at the last moment, the obama administration changed their mind because they were probably very very interested in underminding the relations of the new administration in power. that's why we once again confirmed the interest of ours today. this is a relevant matter. and that is why we suggested that our contacts should be resumed at the level of special envoys of the u.s. administration and the russian president. also contact at the level of relevant authorities. we feel that this time the result of these efforts might be different leading to the establishment of new channels of communication and cooperation. and what is your second question? the ballot for presidential commission? no, we have not yet touched upon this matter.
it has been buried, so to speak, but maybe it must be resuscitated. still, we've got channels to discuss some serious issues in our relations. it might be not under this umbrella structure, no. it might be in a different format. we have designated special persons who will sit down and look at our grievances, to look into those, and to look into how we can overcome these difficulties that exist. >> thank you. secretary tillerson, did you discuss today with president putin or foreign minister lavrov sanctions or other concessions that the u.s. might make in exchange for a change in behavior from the ugs
government? and also speaking about what you just answered previously, did you present to president putin or the foreign minister specific evidence the russian government interfered in the u.s. election? and foreign minister lavrov, if an independent investigation finds the assad government attacked his own people with chemical weapons, what will russia do? president putin said there's an effort to blame assad and plant evidence. did you present that evidence to secretary tillerson today? and would russia refuse to consider to agree to any circumstance that results in the ousting of bashar al-assad. >> we discussed no change in the status of sanctions that have been in place with russia as a result of certain actions taken in ukraine, as you know. i think as to the question of the interference with the election, that is fairly very well established in the united states. that has been spoken to on the hill as well, with the congress.
it is a serious issue. it's one that we know. it's serious enough to attract additional sanctions. and so we are mindful of the seriousness of that particular interference in our elections. i am sure that russia is mindful of it as well. >> secretary hasn't threatened at all. we have had a frank discussion about the issues from our agenda. and unfortunately, we've got some difficulty with regard to majority of those issues. now, as for the counts, this investigation revealed the government's implication in chemical attacks.
if so, if hypothetical, we do not want to speculate. we see how speculation can bring results. we see some statements from the representatives, the air strike against the air base. we do not want to speculate on what is really important on the serious matter of the use of chemical weapon, trying to exonerate anyone on the attempt staging an attack with the use of chemical weapons. what we want is to establish the truth in who complies with american legislation, the russian laws, legislation, the laws of any normal country. but the principle of innocent until proven guilty has to be
respected. today we sent an appeal to the hague to conduct an unbiased transparent investigation. but should there be an attempt at dragging on this investigation, we'll have to make the necessary conclusions. now, as for the allegations that the u.s. government has irrefutable proof that we interfered with the electoral campaign, i have to say once again that we have not seen any facts, any hint at facts. we have not seen any evidence. no one has shown us any evidence, even though we have requested on many occasions that these evidence has to be produced to us to support the allegations, the accusations we hear.
during this time, are there remaining people who want to under mind our relations, to pursue their internal or external political interest. these are just games. we want to hear concrete proof and then we'll respond accordingly. thank you. >> good evening. question to both ministers. the u.s. has sent a strike group with an aircraft carrier. has this issue been raised during the talks? and what are the risks that step might entail for the regime? and this question for secretary tillerson. if this group has been sent to the korean peninsula, does that signify the u.s. has some plans for military intervention in
north korea? thank you. >> the carl vinson strike group is routinely in the pacific ocean. it's in the pacific indicator. and its movements in the pacific are made in a way that's planned by the military planners. there is no particular objective in its current course. the vinson sails up and down the pacific routinely. and so i would not read anything into the carl vinson's current location. >> the only thing i can say is that among other issue, we have discussed the situation in the korean peninsula, as well as around there. as far as i understand, given all the answers, we still have a
common determination to resolve this issue through peaceful means to achieve the demilitarization through diplomatic talks. there are certain efforts undertaken by the participant of what used to be called the six party talks. we also have ideas of our own, just as our chinese counter parts do. we believe we have got to rally around the cause of finding peaceful solution to this issue. and the last question. thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. secretary, before these meetings, you said you believed russia was either incompetent or complicit in these chemical weapons attacks. after your extensive meeting
with president putin and mr. lavrov, do you know which one is and what concrete thing can be done to rebuild that lack of trust? and minister lavrov, if i could indulge you in an answer in english, if you would, sir, president trump has called bashar al-assad an animal. this is the leader your government continues to back. can you tell us how long russia will be willing to risk the lives of its soldiers and spend its money to protect him? >> with respect to russia's complicity or knowledge of chemical weapons attack, we have no firm information to indicate that there was any involvement by russian, russian forces, into this attack. what we do know and we have very firm and high confidence in our conclusions, that the attack was planned, carried out by the regime forces at the direction of bashar al-assad.
>> i can only say once again that just as the case with the so-called russian hackers and the chemical incident in syria, we would very much like to get some concrete evidence, not just words. so far we have not seen any facts. let me highlight once again. in syria, we are acting at the request of the government of the country which is a member of the united nations. this country is under no sanction of the u.n. security council. we are acting there in order to fight terrorism. and it is in our interest to prevent damascus from being
engulfed by isis on that front. if you look at the facts, over the last 18 months, the coalition set up by the obama administration did almost nothing to achieve the objective that it had stated when being established. it had not fought consistently against the front for isis until the russian air base forces were deployed in syria. in essence, after the deployments of our forces, the u.s.-led coalition under the obama administration only performed strikes against certain places held by isis. and it was always sparing that front. we've got some suspicions we think that the front is still
chaperoned and spared to resort to plan b, to overthrow the assad regime with force. we know how this is going to end, because we saw similar situations in libya and iraq. and we do hope that the people will prevail and learn how to learn from history. now, as for who is responsible for the crimes committed in syria, we've got to look into that. but as one american counter part said, there will be time for everything with god's priorities and recently we've heard new priorities from washington, saying that isis is priority number one and as mr. spicer has said, we have the resources to defeat isis without doing anything to the assad regime. this is the same thing john kerry had told me. the u.s. administration, he said, was convinced that isis
was a more serious threat and a more important objective than the assad regime. so i think we think along the same lines. we have to see the common thread if they are apparent. and if we are to fight isis, if we are to emerge victorious from this fight without ousting the regime. when ousting the regime, this is no guarantee that we are going to defeat isis. on the contrary, they might emerge victorious if we oust the regime. so we should be guided by commonsense, thank you, not by emotion. >> colleagues, this is the end of the conference. thank you for participating. thank you. >> dana: rex tillerson and sergi lavrov wrapping up a press
conference after tillerson meets with president putin for about two hours. i'm melissa francis. tillerson told putin that he thinks u.s./russian relations are at a low point. they also talked about the russian's interference with the u.s. elections and whether syrian president bashar al-assad should go. lavrov saying they want an investigation into the chemical weapon attack in syria. we have team coverage with kevin cork at the white house, rich edson is in moscow. we are going to start though with fox sunday host chris wallace, who is in washington. chris, it was interesting to watch rex tillerson there. he was poised. he was firm during the long questions, he didn't take notes, he answered straight off. i don't know if this is what everyone expected. you remember before saying that maybe he was an inexperienced diplomat. what did you think? >> let me say first of all, we may not have a cold war, but that room was pretty chilly today. these two men held a news
conference for over half an hour and really didn't give an inch to each other, as you point out, secretary of state tillerson said relations are at a low point. he talked at one point about a steady degradation of relations. they were completely on opposite sides when it came to syria and assad's responsibility. i would have to say, i wouldn't give tillerson quite as strong as high grades as you apparently did, melissa. i thought you could see a contrast between sergi lavrov, who seemed very comfortable and completely unyielding, giving long complicated answers, in which he went back to u.s. foreign policy in kosovo and iraq and libya, and sudan, to say that the u.s. seems to have this fixation with ousting dictators and countries end up in much worse shape afterwards.
tillerson giving brief and not nearly as aggressive answers as lavrov did. he didn't seem to want to come looking for a fight. lavrov was very comfortable looking for a fight and taking the argument very much to the u.s. >> melissa: yeah. >> i thought lavrov was noticeably more aggressive and, frankly, dominated the news conference. >> melissa: he did hit very hard, especially on that point. he went through the litany of history of what has happened when secular deck taters have been deposed and how badly that has worked out for the u.s. tillerson was clear on what he thought assad's future role was. let's listen to that an get your reaction. >> we did discuss at length the future role for assad, whether it be in a future political process or not. clearly, our view is that the reign of the assad family is coming to an end.
it is possible that the threshold necessary to charge individuals including bashar al-assad may be achieved. >> melissa: chris, it's very clear where they disagree, right? is there any chance to come together? >> well, that's the point. that's kind of what tillerson's been saying for the last few days. that's fine. we don't like assad. we'd like to see him out. but he's got tremendous support from iran and from russia. and there wasn't the slightest hint on the part of sergei lavrov that the kremlin is going to back off its full support for al-assad. at the very end he said, just remember, we came in at the request of a legitimate government, no u.n. sanctions. he made a very interesting charge near the end where he suggested that the u.s. seemeded, while going after isis, they weren't going after an off shoot of al qaeda and seemed to suggest that we would be perfectly okay with an al qaeda regime taking over in
syria. i thought it was a very aggressive offensive by sergei lavrov without much push back by tillerson. tillerson stated his positions, but he sure wasn't in the mood for an agreement with lavrov. >> melissa: do you think he should have hit back harder? >> well, look, it's not my job to say what the secretary of state should do. i just think it was interesting to note the difference between the two. lavrov went on very aggressively stating the u.s. position and several cases making strong charges about the u.s. and tillerson did not respond in kind. >> melissa: it's interesting to note as well that he said along those lines that you were just mentioning that last time around when secretary kerry was there, that he seemed to indicate it was more important to fight back against isis than to depose assad. and if you think back to when secretary kerry went in 2013, he was kept waiting for, what was it, three hours before he could
see president putin? that was another one where they really sort of were very aggressive, as they're sitting there trying to have talks. where do you think it goes from here i guess is the question? >> well, you don't see any reason to believe that there's going to be any change. >> melissa: nothing. >> welsh russia has some very serious interests kind of laughing or scoffing at the trump administration talking about, well, this is what's in russia's interest. russia knows what's in russia's interests. we may not agree with it, but they have a port in the mediterranean in syria. they have air bases in syria. they srf a geo political view, as does iran, about what role they want syria to play in the power, the balance of power in the middle east. certainly nothing today indicated that tillerson and/or trump and/or the missile attack had changed russia's view of this position in the world, syria's position, in any way shape or form.
>> melissa: no, but maybe in those details you just mentioned, there's a deal. if that is their interest, does that outweigh or is there some way to negotiate within that frame work i guess is what we'll see. some have suggested that. it's possible to maintain their interest but still you don't have assad in position there. it's somebody else. i don't know how hard that is to achieve. >> that is certainly one of the things that the white house has been talking about. the possibility that while the allowites, the sect that assad represents, that could remain in power and the assad family would have to go. but there are limitations here. we're really kind of grasping at straws. there was no indication from lavrov that there's any intention to back off. >> melissa: chris wallace, thank you. always fantastic. thank you for enlightening us. rich edson joins us from moscow. he is in the room where secretary tillerson and foreign minister lavrov just wrapped up.
rich, you're the man that's there. what was the room like? yeah, melissa, it was a cramped room filled with russian media, all trying to get a question in to the secretary and the foreign minister. you have to imagine people were in that room for four hours today. there was this public relations dance going with the russian government as to whether vladamir putin was going to invite the secretary of state over to the kremlin to meet with him. they found out late in the afternoon that, in fact, secretary tillerson was welcome to come over to the kremlin, so they met for a couple of hours today. after a series of meetings today, hours of meetings with sergei lavrov, this afternoon with vladamir putin, it is clear that the u.s. and russia have essentially just decided to continue talking. there are major substantial disagreements even on a basic set of facts. when it comes to syria, when koeuplts to russian interference
in elections. in fact, you heard the answer that secretary tillerson gave to our question about whether he brought up interference in the u.s. election and the response from foreign minister lavrov was essentially, well, wasn't what we discussed in the meeting. so on the issue of syria, the resolve and the number of statements we have now heard from the trump administration on the future of bashar al-assad. the secretary of state reiterated again today that the long term solution is that assad will eventually transition out and just have to develop a process to do so. sergei lavrov talked about this obsession with deposing dictators and didn't seem like he signed on to that point of view at all. >> melissa: rich edson, thank a syndicated talk show host, mary anne march is a senior adviser to john kerry. thank you very much for joining us. chris, let me start with you. next up we are going to see
president trump come out and talk later this afternoon. what does he say about this? >> well, look, this is sort of a first meeting, a first go around. i think that the president meeting with nato leader, is probably going to talk about what role nato might play if there were requirement to go further with syria militarily. and it's good to get nato in line. also good for the president of the united states standing there with the leadership of nato when it is russia that is rattling the saber. they should be reminded that we are not standing here alone. >> melissa: mary anne, what's your take? >> the thing to look for, will trump take a tougher tone against lavrov and putin than tillerson did this afternoon? trump has been unwilling and unable to do it to this point. so was tillerson today. even though you could argue with sanctions, the united states clearly has the upper hand. the fact that lavrov pushed so hard on syria to get the resolution in the united nations
and then the national security council, which he objects to in that form, in the united nations. everybody knows russia and china can stop anything. that's what they're looking to do. so if trump isn't tougher than tillerson was this afternoon, then everyone has to question why neither one of them are willing or able to take on putin, lavrov and russia, especially over syria. >> melissa: chris, did you watch that and see a pushover in rex tillerson? >> no, i didn't see a pushover. i saw someone who wasn't there to pick a fight over bosnia and iraq and libya and sudan. by the way, if he wanted to, there's plenty of push back that is readily available. number of countries that russia and the soviet union rolled over. not to liberate, not to provide with democracy and elections, but to occupy. and, by the way, when we came up against milosevic in the former yugoslavia and against hussein in iraq and also bashar in
sudan, we're coming up against soviet and russian weapons systems, from their air defenses, to their tanks, to their rifles. they're all provided by russia and the soviet union. so the bad guys, who are not democratic, are backed by russia, and armed by russia. and when we go to knock out dictators that bring democracy, the russians are always there to trip up the freedom loving people of the world, the democracy seeking people of the world. >> melissa: mary anne, president trump was not tough with 59 tomahawk missiles? >> no. as i said monday morning on this network, the fact is that airport was up and running faster than delta. that's the problem here. you add to the fact that russia had soldiers on that base and they're either unwilling or also unable to say what they saw there and knew what was going on there. that's just impossible to believe. so at every turn russia is somehow involved. yet nobody, seemingly, in the united states government,
including the people in the white house and the secretary of state, are willing to call them out on it. >> russia having troops in the air base doesn't mean they're involved, other than the fact that we all know they are supporting the butchers in damascus. they were given a heads up. >> melissa: they didn't see the weapons? >> sure. we knew they were there. i believe we knew they were there. russians got a heads up so we didn't kill any of their people. you seem to be suggesting that we should have been harsher? there should have been more than 59 cruise missiles? >> melissa: we gotta go. >> if you're going to take out an airport, take out an airport. >> melissa: they did take out all the aircraft that were there. they did take out the munitions. >> should we take out all the air fields? >> melissa: we've got to go. sorry. what is the u.s. military's next step in syria? in nearly three years after scandal exposed patient deaths at the va, the new va secretary
is shaking things up. we'll talk to two combat veterans next.
>> we discussed the current state of u.s./russia relation. i expressed the view that the current state of u.s./russia relations is at a low point. there is a low level of trust between our two countries. the world's two foremost nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship. we further discussed approaches to improving our channels of communication. we had a lengthy exchange of views regarding the situation in syria. and shared perspectives on possible ways forward. >> melissa: so that was secretary of state rex tillerson with russia's foreign minister, sergei lavrov, wrapping up a press conference that happened just moments ago. so what is next for the u.s. in resolving this syrian issue? joining us now is staff sergeant
johnny jones, a retired u.s. marine corps bomb technician and michael wolf a former green beret commander former terrorism adviser to vice president dick cheney and a fox news contributor. gentlemen, i'll start with you. sergeant jones. what do you think is the logical next step given the new information we got just now from that press conference on where everybody stands at this moment and where they're sticking? >> well, first off i think we have to look at the air strike as a form of diplomacy. our missiles don't often miss. and if the air field went back to business, it's because we allowed it to. i think that we did take a step to say that red lines matter this time. but i do think we're in the diplomatic stage. i don't believe we're escalating war in syria. i don't believe that we're moving to topple the regime there, assad's regime. but i do think that we're showing posture, which is one of
the critical aspects of war. and i think we're showing we are willing to do something if our national security or if the interest of the humanity is what is at stake. >> melissa: lieutenant walsh, the.he's making is it looks like the administration is willing. i don't know about the american public necessarily. they're leary, if you look at the most recent polls. full u.s. military involvement, including u.s. troops on the ground in syria, 18% supported that. only u.s. air strikes with no ground troops, 30% supported that. you can see from the screen, that was sort of the most popular option. but while the american public is outraged about what they saw and felt perhaps good about the strike, greater involvement is another thing. >> well, i think that's right. i think the sergeant is right. in the sense that this was a limited strike to draw and enforce a red line against the use of wmd. inaction has consequences. if the united states has turned
its head yet again as we did for eight years under the obama administration at the use of chemical weapons, we would have green lighted its use not only in syria, but around the world. so that had to be done. what next? what happens when the assad regime continues to barrel bomb and use conventional weapons to conduct mass atrocities against its territory? i think we're seeing a broad outline of a policy shaping. one, we had a lot of talk of safe zones. and why to get to the point of the poll. is this in america's interest to stop? well, essentially, you know, the assad regime and russia have weaponized refugee flows. they've done more with 12 million refugees to destablize europe and provide terrorists a platform to penetrate the united states than the soviet union ever did. so i think safe zones in place and driving a wedge diplomatically between assad and russia's interest so that they say he can go. >> melissa: yeah, no, great
point. i want to turn you though three years since the phoenix va scandal broke. a new website was unveiled revealing exactly how we care for va's at the hospital and how it compares with nearby private sector hospitals and national averages. the site has put on 20 hospitals. the va said they are going to add more. sergeant jones, what do you think about this? is this a steup in the right direction or too little? >> i mean, i applaud and appreciate the idea of a transparent policy. in other words, stating publicly we are no longer trying to cover up where we're failing. but that's only if vets are allowed to go outside the system. current policy, you have a 29 day wait or 49 mile drive that's good to go as far as applying care. what's really the issue here is we're talking about getting veterans to their medical care.
we're not even talking about the quality of care they get once they get there, once they have waited and get there. it's good to know that there's places in los angeles. there's an 80 day wait. but the political pressure is there. >> melissa: gentlemen, thank you very much. i wish you had more time. thank you for your insight and service. >> thank you. >> melissa: while many have seen this troubling video of a united passenger dragged off the plane to make room for crew, we're just getting video of the moments before this. >> i'm not going. i am not going. i won't go. i'm not going. i stay right here. my insurance rates are probably gonna double. but dad, you've got... ...allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. it's good to be in, good hands. ♪ to err is human.
>> melissa: united airlines is scrambling to get out of a horrible night mare of a doctor dragged off of his seat from a plane. trace gallagher is live with more on that. trace? >> reporter: let's begin with the video of the man arguing. while dr. dow is confronting place, he reportedly is on the phone with his lawyer. very hard to hear, so watch and read along. play it. >> i have to work tomorrow. no, i'm not going. i am not going. you can take me then. i won't go. i'm not going. i stay right here. >> reporter: course, moments later dr. dow was pulled over the arm rest and dragged down the aisle by his arms. he remains hospitalized. the 69-year-old kentucky doctor is speaking out telling a tv station that he's not doing well when asked ab his injuries, dow replied, quote, everything.
the doctor's family is also commenting saying they appreciate the outpouring of prayers and support. the family has also obtained a lawyer. mean time united's ceo who initially commended his cabin crew for going above and beyond is continuing his apology tour. he told "good morning america" that the world saw united at a bad moment and vowed never again to allow law enforcement to remove people from its airplanes. listen. >> it was a system failure. we have not provided our front line supervisors and managers and individuals with the proper tools, policies, procedures, that allow them to use their common sense. >> reporter: remember, united said dr. dow was randomly picked by a computer to give up his seat, melissa. >> melissa: absolutely. amazing. we'll be right back with some early voting.
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>> melissa: early voting is underway in georgia for the race to replace tom price and a lot of money is already being spent. jonathan serrie is in atlanta. who is raising the most money right now? >> that would be john alsoff. he's raised $8.3 million. much more than any of the other can did. this is a huge field. a total of 18 candidates, 11 republicans and five democrats. alsoff is a moderate alternat e alternative. this is a solid red district. it's affluent and educated. generally leans to establishment candidates. although trump won, he's he only carried the district by 1.5
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culture. it changed the entire dynamic of what you had to do as far as promotion was concerned. you had to be a performance artist as well as a musician. ♪ >> the intelligent ones recognized that it's a marriage between the visual artist and the musician at this point. ♪ monkey ♪ don't you know you're going to shock the monkey ♪ >> the man or the woman who finds the right combination will take it all. ♪ let's dance ♪ put on your red shoes and dance the blues ♪ >> when david and i decided that we were going to work together, it was pretty clear to me that david wanted to make a commercial album. now i'm going to go make a pop record. but it was going to be his version of pop. >> my songs always tend to be impressionistic or even have a surreal quality to them. and on this album is the first time i've really tried to adapt
to a didactic kind of approach to songwriting. ♪ if you should fall into my arms ♪ ♪ tremble like a flower >> artists in the '80s, david bowie for that matter, realized if you wanted to make it you needed to be on mtv. >> but there's one group that's not happy with mtv. many black artists who have been told their music doesn't fit the format. >> that's what's happening. we're being sat in the back of the bus television style. and if pittman gets away with this and there are other cable shows that do it they're going to try it. >> mtv doesn't exclude black acts. what mtv does exclude is music that is not rock and roll. >> mtv came out with no consideration on how to infuse black music into their mix. >> i'm just floored by the fact there are so few black artists featured on it. why is that? >> we have to try and do what we think not only new york and los angeles will appreciate but also
some town in the midwest that will be scared to death by prince or a string of other black faces. >> interesting. okay. thank you very much. >> when are we going to see anybody of color on mtv, because you said music television. when are you going to start covering all genres of music? >> music shouldn't have color. i don't believe in that. i don't want it labeled black or white, i want it labeled music. [ cheers and applause ] [ "billie jean" ] ♪ >> 1983, motown has this big tv special, motown's 25th anniversary. at that time "thriller" is out and "thriller" is doing well. but michael jackson couldn't get "billie jean" on mtv. ♪ she was more like a beauty queen from a movie scene ♪ >> when the rest of the world was going crazy and he can't get
on mtv? michael jackson? come on. ♪ >> when he does that moonwalk, if you were sitting on the couch by the end of it you were on the floor in front of the tv. you couldn't believe what you were seeing. >> i would say the moonwalk was really one of the first viral moments that affected rock history. the next week "thriller" started selling a million copies a week. >> i like michael jackson because he's bad, he knows how to dance. >> he's so sexy and so gorgeous. >> he's exciting! >> michael jackson is the man of the '80s. >> mtv starts to get pressure from cbs records, which was michael jackson's label. >> rock and roll in itself was really the thing that broke a lot of rules. when you're very successful, you try to make your own rules occasionally. >> as the story goes, cbs essentially said we will pull every other artist we have on mtv if you don't play this. they had to be essentially blackmailed into doing it.
♪ it doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ ♪ just beat it >> he was the artist that mtv really needed. they didn't know they needed him, but boy, when we started to see those michael jackson videos, it was just unbelievable. then there was the domino effect. suddenly you see prince videos from warner brothers do the same thing. ♪ tonight ♪ we're gonna party like it's 1999 ♪ >> prince wasn't just materializing out of nowhere. where was he before this video was done? >> prince was a huge star on black radio stations. i mean, people -- he had a underground cult following and he was a very sexy, hot performer. ♪ the sweat of your body covers me ♪ ♪ can you, my darling, can you picture this ♪ >> prince loved the idea that he was taking his punk funk music and turning it on to a white audience, and that wouldn't have happened if not for mtv.
♪ this is what it sounds like when doves cry ♪ >> when i was younger, i always said that one day i was going to play all kinds of music and not be judged for the color of my skin but the quality of my work. ♪ only want to see you ♪ only want to see you ♪ in the purple rain >> prince had a great androgyny. he blurred the gender line. he sings, he writes, he plays. every time i see him it's just like, really? okay, i quit. ♪ >> when he plays guitar, it's just part of his body in a way that i've never really seen before. and it's not contrived. it's just -- it's just happening. >> what was his music? was it r&b? his music was just straight down the middle mainstream grab you
by the throat and balls pop. ♪ ♪ we go down to the river and into the river we die ♪ >> at this point a lot of it is about being there, which is why we haven't done too much of the video thing. a lot of it allows too much distance. like what our band is about is about breaking down distance. ♪ at night i wake up >> bruce was all about credibility and intelligence and integrity. so how would he translate his music and his attitude toward the world to what seemed like this frivolous world of the music video? bruce is not going to be next to a winking model on a sailboat. ♪ you can't start a fire ♪ you can't start a fire without a spark ♪ ♪ this gun's for hire >> he ends up doing essentially a concert video starring a then unknown courteney cox.
it's like this weird recreation of something that organically happens in a bruce springsteen concert. ♪ born in the usa >> if there was an artist in the '80s who transcended the music video he's the guy. he's the guy that didn't need to do great music videos to still be a great artist. he's bruce springsteen. it was great music. ♪ born in the usa ♪ ♪ hi! leaving a career to follow a calling takes courage.
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it is unlikely they are going to abandon their nuclear program. you are behind a rock and a hard place if you're president trump. how do you deal with this? there are options, but it seems like the options they are pursuing now are having the alternative effect. what it seems like they have to do is just try to put more pressure on china as seems to be one of the only leverages they have now. >> and at that point, not to cut you off, but i want to welcome our viewers in the united states and everyone watching from around the world. you are joining us for breaking news out of north korea. speaking to ian in seoul. let's bring you up to speed with what we know now. there are reports of an earthquake in north korea not long after pyongyang claimed to have a nuclear weapon. the u.s. geological survey said it was a 6.3 magnitude explosion. it is unclear if this was actually a nuclear test. we want to be clear.
we do not know this as a fact. it has not been confirmed yet. what we can tell you is that south korean officials say they believe the tremor was manmade. north korean state media said they had a hydrogen bomb and ran these images you are looking at now on screen. they put these out, purporting to show kim jong-un inspecting the device. let's go now to will ripley who joins me now on the line from tokyo. will, you are just back from north korea. as you say, you are just waking up in tokyo now. you were in north korea the last couple of days. when you were there, was there any indication that there was a nuclear test on the horizon? >> well, all last week when we were reporting for north korea we reiterated that it was around this time last year they conducted their fifth nuclear test. that nuclear test happened
shortly before the end of the joint military drills between the u.s. and south korea which always infuriate the north korean government. this infur yated them for a long time. a week before the drills ended last week they conducted their fifth nuclear tests. the drills this year ended on thursday. while we saw that provocative launch over japan, north korea didn't give any warning of an impending nuclear test. what they have done is put out messaging over the past couple of days talking about their nuclear program and how it is increasingly advanced and urging the united states to shift the longstanding position of not acknowledging north korea as a nuclear weapons state. this is something north korea is demanding as a precondition for any kind of discussion with the united states and its allies. that the notion that north korea throw away its nuclear program,
be taken off the table. north korea says it won't happen no matter what sanctions or diplomatic pressure is on them. they believe they have made too much progress and they believe these weapons are the leverage that will guarantee down the road long-term a better future, a better life for the north korean people. the north koreans will come to the diplomatic table from a position of strength as opposed to what the united states would like to see which is a crippled north korean regime becoming financially desperate enough to have discussions and perhaps throw away the nuclear program. we got in there last week. there were a number of discussions. they said time and again that's not going to happen. what the latest test demonstrates is an increase in their abilities. the earthquake that was created by last year's explosion around this time was 5.3. this is a 6.3 magnitude explosion. it is a much larger nuclear device they tested. they also put out a picture of
north korea's supreme leader kim jong-un standing next to what looks like and what north korea claims is a miniaturized nuclear warhead being loaded on a ballistic missile. north korea said they have an increasing capability and they are calling on the u.s. to change their position on acknowledging north korea as a nuclear weapons state. then perhaps there could be talks on north korea's terms. i thought when i was in pyongyang a couple of days ago perhaps that meant that the situation would deescalate and this would go into a holding pattern for a while. clearly after the bomber and fighter jet fly over on the korean peninsula north korea has upped the ante in a big way. they are not concerned about sanctions or international condemnation. they are going all in on this strategy to show the world that they are becoming increasingly advanced with the nuclear arsenal. they put out a news bulletin in the past 12 hours saying these
warheads are 100% home made. which means they say they have all the materials they need to build these nuclear weapon s inside north korea now. they don't need to trade with other countries to build these weapons. they say you can try cutting us off but we can build as many as we want. if you continue this policy we'll continue building more and more weapons and become more of a threat to the international community including the mainland u.s. >> will, the point you made about having the capabilities to build the components for the nuclear ballistic devices internally was one that struck me as i read the reporting put out by k cna, the state media. looking at a north korea that's gone past the point of any return. essentially if what they are claiming is true, if they are
completely willing to ignore sanctions and the threat of more significant action, at this point you have to ask what's left on the table in terms of a means for bargaining with north korea. >> the united states has leverage in bargaining with north korea. north korea has long wanted normalized relations with the united states. they have wanted a more normalized relationship with much of the international community. what north korean officials have been telling me for years, this last trip was my 14th trip to north korea over the last three years. every single trip they used the same terminology. they say the united states has, in their eyes a hostile policy. they would like that to change. from the united states' perspective this is difficult. what north korea has done by testing these nuclear devices and launching missiles is in flagrant violation of international law. so for a long time the united states government has said why would we reward a country that's
violating international law repeatedly and flagrantly and by acknowledging them as a nuclear weapons state or being willing to have discussions, give them concessions. there are people in the united states that feel any assistance, any aid given to north korea has only gone to further strengthen their development of the nuclear arsenal. there is another viewpoint they have come so far with these weapons that if the world continues its strategy that's proven to be a failure and in fact vladimir putin just a couple of days ago said he believes putting pressure on north korea's rhetoric, sanctions he believes will make the situation more dangerous. north korea has shown the world that despite round after round, round seven of u.n. security sanctions was passed. despite all of that. despite attempts to cut them off they have found ways to get
around the sanctions to continue bringing in money through any means necessary and possible. and they have continued to advance. more quickly than analysts believed they would. now you have yet another apparent nuclear test at the nuclear test site creating an explosion so powerful it could be felt across the border in china. you have north korea saying they are not worried about what china will do. they are not worried about the united states is going to do, japan or south korea. they are going to do what they see as necessary to protect their national sovereignty and more importantly for them to continue to have leverage over the rest of the world. they have essentially created a scenario where even though the united states is far more wealthy and far more powerful north korea has something that the united states is going to be hard-pressed to find a response to.
military analysts would say a military option against north korea would be far too dangerous. the humanitarian consequences would be catastrophic. what option does it leave the united states? the united states needs to talk with north korea. a lot of people in washington don't like to reward them for bad, illegal behavior. if they don't others say this is going to continue to escalate and become more dangerous. north korea is not stopping nuclear development. >> will ripley joining us on the line with great insight. we appreciate it. stand by for us. we'll come back to you for your expertise. we want to take a minute and bring in colonel rick francona from oregon, a cnn military analyst and retired lieutenant colonel. thank you for being with us. as will just said is it time for
the u.s. to speak to north korea and to come to the table without the expectation that this is a state that can be denuclearized? is it time to let go of the idea especially in light of everything we have heard in the last couple of hours? the possible nuclear test and the sense that they may have, indeed, been able to conquer hydrogen technology, hydrogen nuclear technology. >> if you listen to the statements made by secretary of defense mattis and secretary of state rex tillerson we are getting to that point. they have to keep up the standard u.s. position that we will not discuss things with north korea until they disavow themselves of a nuclear program. most people realize and will gave an excellent rundown. i don't think there is a chance the north koreans will give up this program. this is in their constitution. they believe it is in their strategic national interest. they believe it is the only thing that keeps them from being
over taken, attacked by the united states. whether that's true or not isn't important. it is their perception. it is the perception of their people. that's what they believe. that they have to have the strategic nuclear deterrent to keep themselves in power. as long as that's the case, i don't see anything that's going to make them want to discuss giving up their nuclear weapons. what's the option? the united states has to determine how to live with a nuclear armed north korea. we have lived with others in the past -- russia and the chinese. we have been able to develop a deterrent posture with them. mutually assured destruction. the north koreans know any attack on the united states would be met with overwhelming military force leading to the end of the country. kim jong-un doesn't want to use a weapon. he wants to own them because he believes that gives him leverage. that's what makes him a viable world power. >> colonel francona, has the
north korea leader backed the u.s. president into a corner? i say that in light of president trump's statements of fire and fury, if north korea continues to escalate threats and carry out provocative actions. well, what now? what now from president trump? president trump drew a line which north korea swiftly jumped over. what now for the president? >> if you look -- you go back in history. we have been dealing with this problem for years, for decades. it was always kick the can down the road. they don't have the technology. they are not ready yet. we still have time. well, we don't have time anymore. the koreans ramped up this program. they have acquired these capabilities much faster than most people thought they could. now we are faced with the end game. we have to do something. so it's not that they backed president trump into a corner. they backed the united states into a corner.
they have done this successfully for each presidential administration. now there is no more road to kick the can onto. we are where the rubber meets the road. something needs to happen. we have to determine what our policy will be rather than saying we have time. we don't have time. >> are you surprised by how quickly they are moving with their nuclear program, how quickly the tests are ha iin ha. how are they doing it? >> they put their entire national resources into it. this is their number one priority. every resource they have, all of the top scientists in the country are working on these programs. we have concurrent programs. you have the nuclear weapons and the ballistic missiles. they are both important. these technologies combine into
a capability they want. we are almost there. in fact, if what kim jong-un demonstrated today is real, they have achieved that combination of the two technologies. and so am i surprised? you know, the north koreans are good engineers. i have seen a lot of their equipment over the years. we have gotten our hands on some of it. it's well made, well engineered. am i surprised they have the capability to do it? not really. i am surprised at the speed which they are developing. the timeline is compressing so fast. as i say, they are developing capabilities faster than we are coming up with policies to deal with it. >> yeah, very true. colonel, please stay with us. we want to keep your valuable insight. we are going to hit pause for a second. adam mountain joins us from washington. thank you so much for joining us. let's get your reaction to what could well be north korea's
sixth nuclear test. >> it does look like it was a sixth nuclear test. the magnitude was higher than previous tests. earlier tonight north korea released photographs of what it said was a two-stage thermonuclear weapon, an advanced system. it said the warhead could fit in an icbm. in fact, that it was loaded into an icbm they say is capable of reaching the continental united states. we can't verify all of the details they released in the statement. this appears to have been a very large test. they have boosted the yield of their weapons. we need to take that capability seriously. >> take it seriously and respond how from the u.s. perspective? >> well, the interesting thing is a thermonuclear weapon doesn't necessarily mean deterrence is impossible.
you can devastate a city with a hiroshima-style bomb like the one we dropped. we already knew the north koreans had that. this would up the yield. it would be capable of greater devastation and damage. but the facts about deterrence, what the united states and allies need to do to prevent north korea from using a nuclear weapon are roughly the same. we expect that north korea doesn't want to utilize a weapon out of the blue to attack the u.s. homeland. we think they would want to use one if it felt the regime was facing i vags. the first priority is to re-establish a strong defensive posture on the peninsula to ensure the weapons are never used. >> what does that look like? i mean, there is already the construction of the t.h.a.d. anti-missile system in south
korea. what are you talking about? strengthening defense pacts between the u.s. and allies, japan and south korea? break it down for us. >> the trump administration has not mounted a firm and visible response that north korea has tested missiles at an accelerated pace throughout the spring or this icbm which was a critical time for the united states. one thing we should be looking at is what are the new military capabilities, defensive military capabilities that could help to prevent north korea from agresing. agresing against allied forces. one thing that concerned me tonight was the statement that kcna released with the photographs saying this nuclear warhead was capable of variable
yield. they could dial down the yield to a lower yield which suggests that north korea is not just thinking about having a capability to retaliate against american cities in the event of invasion, but in fact they are thinking about how to use the nuclear weapons for blackmail, potentially to use them in a wider range of circumstances and situations. the priority now should be to abandon this fool'ser rand to draw out of the free trade agreement announced today. stand tough with allies and make sure we have the capabilities necessary to deny north korea from any kind of aggression. at low levels of escalation and at the nuclear level. >> adam, let me ask you this question which people are divided on. where do you stand on this point of the u.s. saying that talks with north korea will not
proceed unless north korea expresses the willingness or takes action to freeze its nuclear program and ultimately denuclearize. is that a fool's errand? >> i think denuclearization is an important long-term goal. >> is it realistic? >> i think we should think of it as a long-term goal, not as a short-term solution. the short-term priorities are in deterrence and defense, strengthening american alliances. if they focused too much on denuclearization they are starting to overlook the near-term imperatives. the other important thing that happened is talks could stand a reasonable chance of promoting stability on the peninsula. you have to abandon this insistence on going for broke with denuclearization in order to get there. in august the united states and north korea said they restrained
themselves from taking provocative action. north korea in slowing the missile tempo, the united states in refraining from flights. unfortunately neither of these restraint messages got across. there was miscommunication. neither side was willing to take the first step in solidifying that regime of restraint. if we are going to maintain deterrence and want any hope of slowing missile tests they've got to have the direct talks that are focused on arms control and the peninsula. >> before i let you go, we have to talk china. this administration has placed a great amount of faith in china's ability to rein in north korea. not just this administration. past administrations have also made the point because it is true china is the north's biggest trading partner and have significant leverage that has not led to north korea changing its actions.
what is your expectation in terms of a response from beijing in light of this possible sixth nuclear test and after the sanctions passed by the u.n. that china signed on to enforce vigorously. >> china does sign on to a new u.n. sanction when there is a missile test, especially a nuclear test. we can expect they will reconvene the council and push for a tough new resolution. we should be skeptical of whether or not that economic pressure forces the north korean regime to behave in ways that we want. whether it has the effects we desire or whether it's just a way of looking tough for the international community and domestic audiences. what are the things we need to explore over the long run? if we can step back from denuclearization, stop manufacturing a crisis in the near term, whether china would help us deter north korea.
remember the primary interest is stability on the peninsula. if they start to understand that north korea is destabilizing to the region they may be willing to coordinate with us in deterring north korea from aggressing. general dunford's veft to beijing in the north of china this month -- or earlier in august was a good sign that this coordination could occur. that's something we need to explore. we can't get there if we are still going for broke on denuclearization. >> all right. adam joining us there. we appreciate it. thank you for the insight and analysis. it's absolutely been fascinating to get your thoughts on this evening. thank you. >> thank you. i want to bring in ian lee who joins me now from seoul, south korea. what's the latest from where you are. are we getting any more reaction to this possible sixth nuclear
test by north korea? what are you hearing? >> the national security council is meeting here in seoul. they will be discussing this earthquake. we heard the joint chiefs of staff are investigating whether it was, in fact, a nuclear test. all signs have been pointing to the fact that this does appear to be a nuclear test. they have increased the alert level for the military in south korea. they are also increasing the surveillance of the north to determine what exactly happened and see what's going on there. it's an interesting thing to point out that in 2016 when that nuclear test happened in north korea it was a 5.3 on the richter scale. now we are seeing this one today is a 6.3.
how the richter scale works every point up is ten times for powerful. that's not to say whatever caused this earthquake is ten times more powerful than the last one. it just says according to the richter scale this earthquake is ten times more powerful than the previous one in 2016. so that's something to give the experts insight into what exactly happened. but we are also monitoring north korean state television. they usually come out fairly quickly with some celebratory statement saying they have carried out a nuclear test. so we are watching closely to see when and if they do that. but right now things are tense at least for the government here because they are monitoring, trying to figure out, scrambling the national security council meeting now. we will be waiting to hear what they have to say once they are out of the meeting. >> ian, want you to put
something in context for me. if this was a nuclear test, again, we want to stress to the viewers who may just be joining us. there was this explosion according to the usgs it was 6.3 on the richter scale. it has not been confirmed that it was a nuclear test. but if, indeed, that's what took place in north korea the sixth one. i mean, to what degree does this change our assessment of the threat posed by north korea to those in the region and the u.s.? >> well, this just shows that from what the richter scale says from the magnitude of this earthquake that it appears to be a larger device if it was, in fact, a nuclear weapon. the interesting thing earlier today just in the last 24 hours north korea came out and said they have the capabilities of putting a hydrogen bomb on an
intercontinental ballistic missile. that's something experts thought north korea was months if not years away from achieving. but now according to state media who showed pictures of north korean leader kim jong-un at their nuclear facility inspecting this nuclear bomb and how it would be put on an icbm, that's very significant because previously we knew north korea could strike the region and could strike the united states with a missile. but they hadn't been able to put a nuclear device on the missiles. now they say they are capable of doing that. that comes as what appears to be a test of a nuclear weapon. that's a strong show of force from the north koreans. it comes as president trump had a phone conversation with the japanese prime minister abe talking about what they could do to put pressure on north korea. they talked about diplomatic isolation. they talked about economic
sanctions. as we have heard from will ripley's reporting in north korea, that doesn't seem to have an effect. in fact, it has a reverse effect where it galvanized them to achieve their goal of having an advanced nuclear program for what they say is a deterrent to what they perceive as western aggression which the united states and south korea says is laughable because they say the only thing they are doing is defensive measures. these drills we saw this last week, they say they are just defensive measures as a show of force. but they say all the drills that are conducted, all the military exercises conducted between the two countries, they are a defensive posture. that's not seen as that way in north korea. so you have a lack of understanding really with the united states just having the reverse effect. really now we're watching what china has to say about this latest development. really, they are the big player in the region that we haven't
heard from. china, that's where eyes are are going to be looking at, too, to see what their response is to this latest perceived nuclear test. >> stand by for us. i want to bring in rick francona who's joining us there from oregon. you heard in this moment as we wait for confirmation as to whether or not this was a nuclear test, all eyes will be on china. if the moment comes and it is indeed confirmed. what are your expectations of beijing? >> that's the issue right now. everyone has been rely on the chinese. hoping the chinese would be the solution to this problem. it doesn't appear they're going to be. we heard this in the past. we're going to rely on china to put more pressure on north korea. as we've heard, it just does not appear that any pressure we put
on north korea, any pressure that china puts on north korea is going to have the desired effect. this is north korea's primary objective is to develop this deterrent capability and they're going to do it regardless of what it costs them, because they believe that once they do that, then they will have leverage against any kind of sanctions or pressure from the outside. so you know, they're going to be playing a long game. i don't think china will do much for us. they macon dem the test, but i don't think this is going to be a game changer. >> i want to be clear when it comes to the situation on china. is it your belief that it's more a case of china doesn't want to do more? at the end of the day, you know, it is well documented that north korea uses chinese banks, gets
oil from china. it's an economic relationship that's so interwoven, if china really did put the pressure on north korea, they could effect change. is that wrong headed thinking? >> no, no. i just don't think the chinese will do it. it's not in their interest. they're looking at north korea. they think we don't like what's gong on there. but if we take action, the level of that action will cause such angst and such problems in north korea that we may see a refugee crisis, internal strife. that's something the chinese don't want to dale with. they don't like north korea and what it's doing right now, but they like a stable north korea. >> this administration has been accused of not speaking with one voice or being on the same page when it comes to north korea.
the likes of rex tillerson have erred on statements of we're not seeking regime change. diplomacy is not off the table. do you think discordance has kind of given a message to north korea that they could proceed with this possible test and with continued testing of missiles? >> they hear one thing from the president and then they hear something different from the secretary of state and the secretary of defense. those three will tell you they're all on the same page, but when you're reading what they're saying and you're a north korean analyst with not all the understanding of the nuances of american politics, you may think that there's division there. and that might embolden you.
now is the time for continue with the program and to achieve that goal before they get their act together. >> is now the time for more hash rhetoric from president trump of the fire and fury strain that we heard a couple of weeks ago, if this was indeed a sixth test. is this the moment where that kind of response is necessary. are you for one saying if there's a sixth test that needs to be dialled back and behind the scenes backdoor interaction or, i won't say negotiation because there isn't one. but at least attempts to reign in north korean need to be stepped up. >> i favor the backdoor approach. i don't think this public tit-for-tat really gets us anywhere. it just ratchets up the rhetoric and it destabilizes what stability is in the region.
but it also destabilizes our allies around the world. >> i want to go back to adam for a second. he's still with us from d.c. i want to ask him, adam is a senior fellow with certain for american progress. let me give you a full introduction once again, adam. to that point, is now the time for more fierce rhetoric from this administration, do you want to see more of that? would that have any positive effect if indeed this was a sixth nuclear test? >> there's no evidence that american rhetoric affects north korea's propensity to test whatsoever. throughout the spring donald trump and his administration have tried to ramp up the rhetoric. you heard these fire and fury threats and a variety of others. hr mcmaster, for example, said that north korea cannot be
deterred. the implication is that he would want to strike before north korea really consolidated this icbm capability. those statements are not helpful. they have not kept north korea from testing and i see no rejoon for doing so in the future. all they do is manufacture a dries sis, to try to ramp up the pressure and north korea just feeling it. >> adam, talk to us about the propaganda value, if you will, of such a test. within north korea itself, the value to kim jong-un. >> as you heard from the reporting, north korean citizens are enthralled by these nuclear tests and missile tests. each one is treated like a national triumph of. so every test does strengthen the leaders' hand with his
population. but also within the kabal of leaders, generals, military officers that surround him. they're important for him to maintain control. >> so following your line of thinking, kim jong-un needs these tests for his own internal survival and cohesion of this country. >> right. and that's one more reason we should be skeptical that any kind of rhetorical statement from the united states could cause him to give them up. why moving aircraft carriers into the region or b-1 bomber overflights could force north korea to fold and acquiesce to american pressure and volunteer to eliminate their nuclear arsenal. they're simply too important for the survival of the regime. they're too valuable internally.
and they're useful for sending a deterrence signal to the united states and its allies. these are not capabilities that north korea is going to want to give up easily. . >> the south korean government tends to be a little more rapid in responding so they convened a national security council meeting there and the military has said that they do think this one looks like a nuclear test. china will responds as it sees fit. it won't be rushed into thesortf things. we can expect them to go back to the u.n. security counckoucounc
answer academy, recited a garbled version of the claim made by his ally. >> it's a shame what's happened with the fbi. but we're going to rebuild the fbi. it will be bigger and better than ever. but it is very sad when you look at those documents and how they've done that is really, really disgraceful. and you have a lot of very angry people that are seeing it. they've found tremendous things on the other side. when you look at the hillary clinton investigation, it was -- you know, i've been saying it for a long time. that was a rigged system, folks. >> all right. in isolation, it's actually hard to figure out what he's even saying. but it's not hard to figure out where the president picked up those talking points that he was fumbling around with. those talking points have been airing around the clock on trump tv. it's also hearing them directly from people like congressman matt gaetz, a republican on the house judiciary committee who
took a ride on air force one with the president last week. he personally warned trump that mueller's investigation is, quote, infected with bias against the president. he urged his colleagues to shut the investigation down. >> the congress has an obligation to expose this bias, to expose what i believe is a corrupt investigation. i call on my republican colleagues to join me in calling for the firing of bob mueller. and look, it's time for mueller to put up or shut up. if there is evidence of collusion with russia, let's see it. >> like the congressman, the president seems to believe erroneously that neither the mueller investigation or any of the active congressional probes have turned up a shred of incriminating evidence. >> let's put it this way. there has been absolutely no collusion. that's been proven. when you look at the committees, whether it's the senate or the house, my worst enemies, they walk out and say, there is no collusion but we'll continue to look. there is absolutely no collusion. i didn't make a phone call to russia. i have nothing to do with russia. everybody knows it.
>> absolutely no collusion and everybody knows it. in fact that latter contention is the opposite of the truth. according to an associated press poll just out today, the vast majority of americans, 72%, believe the president has done something illegal or unethical with regard to his ties to russia. despite all the evidence, the trump campaign was eager to get russian help, despite the charges brought against four trump associates including his campaign chairman and his national security adviser, dispute the numerous leads that have still yet to be followed, republicans in congress may be ready to shut down their part of the investigation. according to congressman adam schiff, the top democrat on the house intelligence committee, his gop colleagues already appear to be wrapping things up. and schiff is concerned about what comes next. >> they're refusing to schedule any of the witnesses to come in in january. and there are literally dozens of witnesses that need to come before our committee who may never come before the committee if they shut this down. so i think they are on the verge potentially of reneging on the
be an impeachable offense. >> the question is who is going to stop him. >> keep in mind, the president cannot fire mueller. he would have to get rod ros rosenstein to fire him. people would go out in the streets and say this is not acceptable. >> it's interesting that you say that, i saw this, walter shaub, who was head of the office of ethics for a while until he resigned, said this. this weekend i'm stocking up on portable phone charges, warm clothes, and gear needed for when we take the streets. i'm concerned the assault on the rule of law is coming over the holidays. do you share that kind of concern, that what we're heading for is some kind of genuine constitutional crisis that would require some kind of mass civic response? >> i think it's a possibility. the reason i think it won't happen is because trump's advisers understand that even if mueller is removed, it doesn't stop the investigation. the investigation keeps on
going. if fbi agents have identified criminal activity for example on jared kushner, that keeps on going. prosecutors are going to prosecute, fbi agents are going to keep on investigating. you can't stop that. >> do you trust rows senstein a do you trust sessions to conduct themselves wiin good faith with regards to everything happening in the mueller investigation? >> i trust rod rosenstein. i cannot trust jeff sessions because he's lied to congress under oath multiple times. rod rosenstein is the only one that can remove mueller. he's testified under oath that there is no good cause to remove mueller and that every action he took had a legal and factual basis. >> i want to play what he had to say before your committee in terms of the fact that there was no cause to fire mueller, he was fairly strong about that. take a listen. >> have you seen good cause to fire special counsel mueller? >> no. >> thank you. if you were ordered today to
fire mr. mueller, what would you do? >> as i've explained previously, i would follow the regulation. if there were good cause, i would act. if there were no good cause, i would not. >> and you've seen no good cause so far. >> correct. >> thank you. >> what do you say to those who are sitting across from you in that hearing room who say this entire operation is infected with bias? >> they should look at the actions of robert mueller. he has secured two guilty pleas. no one disputes the legitimacy of those guilty pleas. he's put two indictments out on paul manafort and mr. gates. no one disputes that those indictments don't have a rock solid legal and factual basis. there is nothing they can point to that robert mueller has done that is wrong. they have pointed, however, that some members of his team donated to democratic candidates. well, that's correct. the fbi director, christopher wray, was also part of the team, he gave over $39,000 exclusively to republican candidates.
but i still trust the fbi director. it's demeaning and offensive to think you can't do your job just because you donated to political candidates. >> congress men ted lieu, thank you. >> thank you. senator richard blumenthal has been one of the most outspoken voices on the need to protect the mueller investigation. he joins me now. do you share my feeling that over the last week there has been an intensification of the rhetoric coming from trump tv and from his allies in congress around shutting down this investigation? does it feel that way to you? >> there is clearly a feeling that the rhetoric has intensified, at least among some of the trump supporters. and the targets of this investigation, like donald trump himself. and there is increasingly a need to protect the investigation. my hope is that my republican colleagues will speak out and stand up. now is the time for that kind of courage in the public interest.
>> let me just say, there is not a lot of that going around. back during the summer, when mueller was first named, which was back in the spring, there was widespread by partisan support. newt gingrich said he was a great choice even though newt gingrich is now talking about how corrupt and inept he is. then during the summer when the president appeared to be firing sessions, there were republicans like lindsey graham and others saying he cannot move against mueller, if he does we will stop him. i have not heard those kinds of reassurances publicly from republicans recently. have you? >> senator grassley said this week that he believes that robert mueller is a person of integrity and professionalism. but you're absolutely right, chris, there have been few voices explicitly supporting the special counsel, and pointing out that there is no evidence, not a scintilla, that political bias of any kind has infected or affected the special counsel's investigation. there is no evidence that any fbi agent's political views have
impacted this investigation. and so you point out absolutely correctly that the rhetoric has intensified. but there is no evidence to support it. >> one of the key elements is the obstruction case or the possibility of the president committing obstruction of justice when he fired james comey, when he asked him to go easy on michael flynn. there was an interesting exchange with the president this morning on a key factual matter the white house has yet to answer, which is when the president himself found out that michael flynn had lied to the fbi. take a listen to this exchange. >> reporter: mr. president, when did you find out that michael flynn had lied to the fbi? >> what else is there? how many times has that question been asked? >> we don't know the answer. do you know the answer? >> well, he has said in a tweet that he knew that flynn had lied to the fbi when he fired flynn, which means he also knew when he asked comey to pledge his
loyalty, when he asked comey to go lightly on flynn and his investigation, and when he fired jim comey has director of the fbi, because comey would not drop that investigation. i think there is a credible case of obstruction of justice against donald trump. and that's one of the reasons why this rhetoric about the special counsel, impugning the fbi, which is really reprehensible for the president of the united states, these dedicated men and women come to work every day and they park their political views at the door. i know from having been a united states attorney for 4 1/2 years, and the attorney general of the state of connecticut, that these professionals work hard to be objective, fair, and aggressive in pursuing crime. >> if the president did indeed know that at the time, i mean, the tweets seem to imply it. i don't know if they've come out and admitted that he knew that michael flynn had lied to the fbi when he fired him. if he did, then he knew he had
lied to the fbi when he told james comey to fire him. isn't that more than a credible case for obstruction, isn't that the case; isn't that right there in front of everyone? >> it's a credible case from what we know publicly. there is probably even more evidence, indeed mounting evidence that is known only to the special counsel and his team. and i think that the case is building piece by piece. it will form a mosaic at some point that has increasing power. and i think that to speculate at this point, i'm not prepared to do. but i think the special counsel is pursuing it methodically. >> let me ask you this. are you confident that the white house will not do something constitutionally reckless in the face of more indictments returned or robert mueller getting closer to the president's own guilt? >> the special counsel clearly is coming closer to the oval
office. i am not at all confident, unfortunately, that the president will avoid compulsive a impulsive or rash action. >> if your colleagues were serious about that, they would have voted on it already. you of seem to have more trust that the sort of checks are in place than me standing here from outside this sort of black box, looking into it does. i guess i'm asking you, if you have private reasons to believe that your colleagues will be there in that moment if needed. >> i am not trusting. and i am not confident. i am pushing legislation and advocating for it. and i'm hopeful that my colleagues, republicans as well as democrats, will be convinced that the need is now. i agree with you. >> senator richard blumenthal,
thank you. >> thank you. still to come, the tax bill jam job. is there still a chance, any chance it's going to go down in defeat? it just got slimmer today. and next, russian president vladimir putin's remarkable and curious praise of president trump, in two minutes. ♪ do you want clean, stain free dentures?
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today. >> translator: objectively, we see some serious achievements accomplished during the short span he is president. look at the markets, how they've grown. >> trump and putin spoke by phone yesterday. you'll never guess what they talked about. >> reporter: how was your call with vladimir putin? >> it was great. he said very nice things about what i've done for this country in terms of the economy. he said also some negative things in terms of what's going on elsewhere. >> trump and putin also struck a strikingly similar note on the topic of alleged collusion. >> i have nothing to do with russia. everybody knows it. that was a democrat hoax, it was an excuse for losing the election. >> translator: you know, all of this has been invented, made up by people who are in opposition to president trump. >> and these uncanny echoes all come amidst a "washington post"
report that trump continues to reject intelligence that had captured putin's specific instructions on the operation. trump scoffed at the suggestion that his candidacy had been propelled by forces other than his own strategy and charisma. joining me is msnbc terrorism analyst malcolm nance, author of "the plot to hack america." that last nugget from "the washington post" story, it was so striking at an intelligence level, that the u.s. intelligence apparatus appears to have intelligence of putin giving direct instructions over this operation. what's your reaction to that? >> well, that's a significant piece of information, if it's true. it's quite possible that it is true, because you don't actually have to go and expend resources to be at the tippy top of collection inside putin's office. sometimes you can downstream information that's given to
subordinates or deputy subordinates. and somewhere along the line someone gets sloppy with their communications and we get a copy of an action message that authorizes this operation to go ahead. you have to remember, this entire russia investigation started as a counterintelligence operation. we had information indicating that russian intelligence was carrying out this operation and was doing it with the assistance of american citizens. >> what do you make of the sort of echoes between trump and putin's rhetoric on both the economy, which i want to get to in a second because i think it's a deft maneuver pby putin to ingratiate himself. >> i don't know who is leading who, there's some evidence that it's vladimir putin. he knows how to play trump. from as early as december of 2015, when trump was still in the field with 15 other
candidates, vladimir putin came out and gave him somewhat of a tacit endorsement, saying that, you know, donald trump was a colorful and brilliant character. and trump really responds to that. now what we have here is we have putin in no uncertain terms putting words into trump's mouth, and waiting for trump to respond in a way that he already knows. the chinese are also doing this as well, you know. trump responds to flattery. >> it's amazing how much the chinese have also been playing from the same playbook, lavishly praise the president, the president praises them back in this kind of endless loop. what are the concrete, tangible impacts of having a president who just refuses to abide the basic core intelligence findings on this operation and to the extent it may have continued? >> there's no need to pull
punches here. it places us in danger. the purpose of the u.s. intelligence community is to give the president of the united states the best open access to the best intelligence there is in the world from all sources, multisource intelligence, and giving it typically in a compact format that he can consume and then make proper, adequate decisions about safety, security, and the economy of the united states. most notably, the safety of american citizens. if you have a president of the united states who doesn't even want to hear it, where he doesn't even think that this information is good enough for him, and that it's corrupt, and that it will somehow harm him, then what you have is a president who will then blindly ignore things that could in fact damage the security of the united states, or compromise the security of the united states. it's literally like walking around with your eyes closed on a high-rise scaffold.
>> what's your fear? compromise, what do you mean? there's one level that seems obvious, that something like this might happen again. they've learned the bang for the buck of breaking into a few in boxes and publishing on the internet is pretty high. is that the kind of thing you're worried is going to happen again? >> well, we already know that's going to happen again, because this administration has taken absolutely no steps to try to secure the united states from any further intrusions. the things that are happening are happening at the department level, at u.s. cyber command, nsa, and organizations who are taking whatever steps they can. but there is no national infrastructure program. there is no imperative to get the united states electoral process secure, because he just doesn't believe it. but the president has already shown that he can compromise information. when he had the meeting with foreign minister lavrov and kislyak in the oval office which we didn't know anything about until the russians reported on
it, he actually compromised top secret security programs between the united states and israel. he could do that inadvertently again because he does not respect the sanctity of the top secret information that he has. >> malcolm nance, thanks for being with me tonight. >> my pleasure. next, the trump judicial nominee so unqualified even a republican senator took him to task. months. i want to talk about years. treatments have gotten better, so... i'm hoping for good years ahead. that's thanks to research funded by the american cancer society. the same folks giving me free rides to treatments, insurance advice, and a place to stay during chemo. i need that stuff like you don't know. and now that you do, please give at cancer.org.
about it the other day, these are the most qualified people ever. >> the idea that the president picked the most qualified people ever has become something of a punch line. brett tally's nomination was withdrawn. he rated unanimously unqualified by the american bar association, the fourth judicial nominee under president trump to receive a not qualified rating from the bar association. and the second to receive the rating unanimously, which is really quite rare. the white house also pulled the nomination of jeff matteer who had described transgender children as evidence of, quote, satan's plan. today, thanks to a video clip tweeted out by senator sheldon whitehou whitehouse, we witnessed a trump nominee tacitly admit he is not qualified for a lifetime appointment. >> have you ever tried a jury trial? >> i have not. >> civil? >> no. >> criminal? >> no. >> bench?
>> no. >> state or federal court? >> i have not. >> have you ever taken a deposition? >> i was involved in taking a deposition at wiley rein when i first came out of law school. >> have you ever taken a deposition by yourself? >> i believe no. >> have you ever argued a motion in state court? >> i have not. >> have you ever argued a motion in federal court? >> no. >> when is the last time you read the federal rules of civil procedure? >> the federal rules of civil procedure, i, uh -- mm-in my current position i obviously don't need to stay -- you know, invested in those on a day-to-day basis. but i do try to keep up to speed. >> oh, that is hard to watch. if you're not a trial lawyer,
perhaps it's hard to understand just how horrible that performance was. luckily we have a trial lawyer, watergate prosecutor nick ackerman, to explain. and i can do it with what's already within me. because my body can still make its own insulin. and once-weekly trulicity activates my body to release it. trulicity is not insulin. it comes in a once-weekly, truly easy-to-use pen. it works 24/7, and you don't have to see or handle a needle. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. it should not be the first medicine to treat diabetes or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take trulicity if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, if you have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you're allergic to trulicity. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have a lump or swelling in your neck,
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we want to help you too. find out how much you can save in just two minutes at sofi.com/save as a trial judge you're obviously going to have witnesses. >> yes. >> can you tell me what the daubert standard is? >> umm, senator kennedy, i don't have that readily, uh, at my
disposal. but i would be happy to take a look at that. >> do you know what a motion in limine is? >> yes, i haven't -- again, my background is not in litigation, as when i was applying replying chairman grassley. i haven't had, again, to do a deep dive. and i understand and appreciate this line of questioning. i understand the challenge that would be ahead of me if i were fortunate enough to become a district court judge. >> matthew peterson is up for a lifetime appointment, i can't stress that enough, for the u.s. district court for the district of columbia. one of the most important federal courts in the country. msnbc's legal analyst nick ackerman is former assistant watergate prosecutor. nick, it's good to have you here. >> thank you. >> i think non-lawyers watch that and you just -- the reaction you have to it is, it
looks like a literal nightmare that you might have about like a stress dream about being unprepared for something. but as a trial lawyer, what is your reaction to watching that? >> to watching that? these are such basic concepts, such basic skills he's asked about. daubert, every trial lawyer knows that that relates to expert witnesses and the standard for admitting expert testimony. on motion in limine, that's something that comes up during the course of a trial to get an advanced ruling from a district court judge on a ruling on evidence. >> how common is a motion in limine? 10 being basically every trial has one, 1 being quite obscure. >> probably a 12. these are not obscure concepts. the idea that this person is being appointed for a lifetime position as a federal district court judge, he doesn't know
anything about the rules of evidence, he doesn't know anything about the federal rules of civil procedure, he's never looked at them, he's never been in a trial, he's never done a trial, i mean, it just is mind-boggling. >> what does it matter? >> it matters because this is a very important position. he has to be sort of the gatekeeper, the person that oversees the trial, that conducts the trial. he's never been in one before. from the standpoint of a litigant, he's doing cases, they're not only civil cases were people's money and fortunes are at stake. but he's also doing criminal cases. and if he doesn't know this stuff, guilty people are going to be allowed to go free, and innocent people will be locked up. i mean, that is what we're looking at, when a person just doesn't understand how this all works. >> will you explain, one of the things it's hard for people who don't know the federal courts very well, the difference between a district judge and an appellate judge, and why not knowing this for the district judge is so important. >> the district judge is actually the trial court.
i mean, people who have disputes, or it's the government coming in, for example the paul manafort case, you've got a case there where you've go to a very complicated transactional case that's a conspiracy to defraud the government, that the district court judge is sort of the gatekeeper. she's going to decide on questions of evidence, what comes in, what goes out, or in the case of a civil case, the same sort of thing, a sex harassment case, you would have the same issues. i mean, if he doesn't know the basic concepts of what the job is, it's almost like saying just because he went to law school, therefore he can be a judge, just because somebody went to medical school as a dermatologist doesn't mean they can be a brain surgery. >> right. >> that just doesn't work that way. >> what do you think about the sort of standard of -- i mean, we've now seen a few of these judges, we saw brett tally in a similar situation, he got pulled pack. we've seen some of the appellate court level, there's been a huge push by the trump administration to get people on that court.
are you satisfied or confident that they have the necessary qualifications? >> it's appalling. the people they're trying to put on the federal district court is absolutely appalling. it's going to mean that litigants don't feel like they're getting a sense of justice. it means that litigants will have to pay more for legal fees because these judges won't know what they're doing. >> and they'll also get overturned. there's real consequences if you screw up a trial. >> huge. >> as a judge, if you make the wrong ruling. and it's a very hard job, let's be clear. >> this is not for a rookie, basically. >> and if you screw it up, there's going to be consequences, because there will be an appeal and you could end up with a situation in which convictions get voided, huge civil suits get overturned, things like that. >> or even worse, if somebody who is guilty gets let go because this judge doesn't know what he's doing and you've got somebody who should be in jail that doesn't go to jail. i mean, this is a pretty complicated job. it's not just dealing with civil issues but it's also criminal issues. i mean, you have to be a pretty
well-rounded lawyer to take on this job. >> i guess when you watch peterson there struggle on these basic concepts, is this the kind of thing, if he spent, you know -- if you went back and crammed, he could be okay? >> at least he could have sat through a couple of trials. maybe if he walked into the federal district court in d.c. and sat there for a week and just watched what was going on, maybe, maybe he could have figured it out. >> but are you confident that someone like that -- i guess my question is, is there a certain amount of experience you just need to be able to qualify to do this job that you just can't get from watching trials and books? >> yeah. it's a matter of being a trial lawyer, having been there and done it. and even when you've done that, i think most people who get pointed to the bench, the federal bench, there's a learning period even at that. >> i know some people, yeah. >> yeah. so it's a tough job in a lot of ways. and it's a very, very important job. and the kind of people that they're putting on there, this is not about liberals or
conservatives or democrats or republicans. this is about competence, just plain old fashioned competence. >> nick ackerman, always a pleasure. >> thank you. ahead, the week that was. is doug jones' victory a major milestone for the resistance? plus tonight's thing one/thing two starts next. constipated?
turn up your swagger game with one a day men's. ♪ a complete multivitamin with key nutrients plus b vitamins for heart health. your one a day is showing. thing one tonight, the biggest election news this week was of course doug jones' unlikely victory in the alabama senate race. but we also got results in an election held a month ago. new york mayor bill de blasio won reelection by a wide margin. at least three votes were not counted in that race. and they're all from the members of the trump family. how multiple trumps tried and failed to vote correctly, that's thing two in 60 seconds. just serve classy snacks and be a gracious host,
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i mean, we have the worst mayor in the united states, de blasio, who is the worst mayor in the united states, like not even a contest. >> new york city does not agree with donald trump. mayor de blasio was easily reelected last month by a 35-point margin, like not even a contest. president trump and his family were not in new york for that election. but they did attempt to participate. unfortunately the "daily news" reports that melania, ivanka, and jared's votes did not count. the first lady correctly filled out her absentee application as you see here. but when it comes to her actual ballot, election officials say she did not sign the ballot envelope. trump's daughter ivanka also managed to botch her ballot, she didn't mail it until election day which was too late to be counted, officials said. her husband jared kushner, he didn't mail his back at all,
according to the board. so that's not going to count. that makes it 0-3. how about the president himself? officials say donald trump filled out his ballot correctly, but if you look at his absentee ballot application, donald trump wrote his own birthday as july 4t 14th, which is weird because trump's birth certificate says he was born on june 14th, which means he was a month off on his ballot application about his own date of birth. it's unclear if trump's incorrect ballot application will affect his growth. >> this issue is very important to me because throughout the campaign and even after, people would come up to me and express their concerns about voter inconsistencies and irregularities which they saw. all public officials have a profound responsibility to protect the integrity of the
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17 points on average. borrow up to $100,000 with low rates and no hidden fees. find your rate in just two minutes, and take on your debt at sofi.com. just a few hours ago, republicans finally released the finished version of their tax plan. with a few new developments today, they could have the votes they need to pass it. senator marco rubio got what he needed to change his vote to yes, a small increase in the refundibility of the child tax credit, even though jim tankersley of "the new york times" says rubio's changes slightly reduces the value of the tax credit increase. bob corker of tennessee who won by partisan praise for standing up to the president didn't even get that much of a concession or any, as far as we know, but he's still changing his vote. he had originally been the only gop senator to vote against the plan because of deficit worries.
today he flipped. senator susan collins of maine praised the bill today after previously appearing to waiver. it remains to be seen if senator mccain and cochran, back and forth battling illnesses, will be present for the vote next week. nonetheless the passage of the tax overhaul looks quite likely. this bill would cut taxes for corporations, for billionaires' heirs, and for some middle class families, but raising taxes on millions of middle class americans. the house is expected to vote tuesday for a bill over 1,000 pages long. the calculation for speaker paul ryan and his party is pretty clear. with voters tipped to the way the tax plan will cost the middle class, republicans are just trying to get this thing through as quickly as possible. and crazy as the tax bill is, it's only been one part of a roller coaster week. everything from the shocking alabama senate election to the #metoo movement reaching the white house, next. when you have a cold...
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renewed scrutiny to the white house. congress man blake farenthold of texas won't run for reelection next year and omarosa, remember her? reportedly fired and had to be physically removed from the white house. rod rosenstein testified republicans look poised to cut taxes for corporations while raising taxes on many middle class families and democrat doug jones won that alabama senate election despite steve bannon's best efforts to pull it out for the accused child molester. a shocking victory that made clear the price republicans could pay at the polls. senior contributing editor. michelle, i want to start with you on this theme, which is you've now got a situation after which al franken was drummed out by the democratic caucuses and fear about disarming. democrats will hold responsible, republicans are not.
and now a week later, trent franks is gone and roy moore didn't win, looks like that did not come to pass. >> that looks like a good bet because it puts the dell cmocran a better position to not only call out other republicans but demand hearings and investigation into donald trump's horrific record of sexual harassment and confess sexual assault. you know, he's obviously very rattled, i think the one thing that we might have -- was it this week he sexually harassed a sitting senator on twitter? >> i can't remember. i think it was this week, actually. yeah, this week. it was this week. [ laughter ] >> i think monday he sexually harassed a sitting senator on twitter. yes, that's correct s. >> so he's clearly rattled by this moment and accountability and i think that it just spares democrats from having to answer the question even though the question is always posted in the
blackest of bad faith, what about al franken. >> right. ben, i want to show you the newest polling. i'm amazed at the numbers right now coming up in polling. one of the things that happened is a lot of people caught by surprise on trump's win and there was over compensating in the way the media talked about and treated the trump coalition and skepticism, all of which was genuine and perhaps earned but when you look at the numbers, it is bleak for republicans. trump in the 538 compilation is lowest ever. the new ap poll out today has him at 32%. i mean, things are not good for the republican party's popularity right now. >> no, and i think, you know, the trump effect, i think is what i predicted it would be. i said it all through the 2016 election that i believed trump would disappoint the people who are willing to hold their nose and vote for them and hope for
the best and find themselves more and more being disgusted with behavior. i thought independence and people willing to vote republican at times would end up feeling as though the republican party representing something they can no longer support as long as he's the leader of it. once he won, i counted on the idea maybe republicans will try to hold him accountable, certainly not cheer lead for him but have been and i think steve bannon, the trump miracle. i haven't even heard that before. >> that is a really good clip for null fa caification attempt >> he's trying to speak this language. a lot of people are really seeing what a bunch of us warned them would be the case and it's going to come back to bite the republicans -- i think it's going to come back to bite them in 2018. very hard. >> i haven't had -- i don't think we talked about the doug
jones win. it really is -- i mean, there are so many distinct things about the race with roy moore and accusations but as a political earthquake to get a democratic senator in alabama. >> more so machine a senator in massachusetts during obama's first term. what is amazing is we now have proof. for a long time we had increased democratic margins that have fallen short in red districts. now we finally have one that jeff sessions can seat. this is incredible and yet, you don't see any sort of instinct for self-preservation among republicans in congress, which is really astonishing. they are not just yolking themself to the tax bill, which obviously fulfills a lot of dreams but incredibly unpopular and yolking themselves to donald trump's obstruction and this kamikaze attack on the fbi. it's so hard for me to
understand what they think they are going to get out of this and how they think they will be remembered. >> it's a great question. what do you think the psychology of republicans on the hill is given what they are facing, given the aftermath of jones? >> well, so, you know, in alabama for instance, you know, i think these people are still conservative. they still like things like the tax bill. >> right. >> this is -- elections are becoming for republicans these days, elections are constant battles of lesser evil arguments and everybody is discussing can we deal with this person or can we put up with that person or vote for this guy if it keeps this guy out. policy is barely on people's radar at this point. i don't think it's surprising republicans would be pushing what is considered a conservative agenda thinking if they can somehow rescue this situation and stop putting scum bags up for people to vote for, if they can put people in there. it seems like what they keep putting up either somebody
stories of democrats who worked with the russians in the 2016 campaign. president then turned his attention as i mentioned to attorney general jeff sessions. this is important when you consider that this is the individual recused from an ongoing probe of potential obstruction among things and donald trump saying it's too bad that sessions recused and then asked an intelligent question. the reporter asked donald trump to compare jeff sessions to the previous administration's attorney general eric holder under obama and donald trump said this. i don't want to get into loyalty but i will tell you that i will say this. holder protected president obama. totally protected him. when you look at the things that they did, and hold proer tekted the president. and i have great respect for that. i'll be honest. i have a little more on that in a moment. trump also asked here in this very newsy interview whether he would order the justice
come to understand can be seen as a triangle with three points. authoritarianism. you highlighted the quotes that are worrying on that front. the second is his desire to make as much money as he can out of the presidency. and the third and the one that may be we have not paid enough attention to is psychic neediness. that was on display in the interview. the need to present himself as somebody powerful. people need to come to me and his responsive to flattery and the comments about the president of china. how big a smile is on the president of xi tonight and thinking the show on the tarmac, what dividends paid off in manipulating the president's ego. >> ambassador sherman, you can build on the point david makes. and this is an interview with so much in it, one point when asked willing to make deals, he says, yes. the reporter follows up and says you would move to the center on some of these issues.
he said, no, i'm being practical. i don't think i'm changing. and then he says, i'm always moving. i'm moving in both directions. which would seem to be -- maybe perhaps admission but, again, to david's point on the neediness, he says in the interview, ambassador, that he is knows the tax deal better than the greatest cpa with regard to congressmen and senators. i love them and they love me. >> yeah. it's quite an interview as you say, ari. building on david's point, this -- the other piece of this is a very transactional approach and another interview tomorrow in "the new york times" with general mcmaster, the national security adviser saying he is taken out of the comfort zone with the trump foreign policy and in general it's all to the good. it is a very transactional foreign policy. he said that he eased up on trade with china because he thought he'd get what he needed on north korea.
he hasn't gotten what he needed on north korea and china. to always be in charge, always talking about the need for bilateral trade agreements, not multilateral trade agreements, even in another article talking about angela merkel said that, yes, he could have a bilateral trade deal with the europe and not understanding europe is made up of 28, soon to be 27 countries after brexit and the entire article is i think as you said part of the pragmatic realism that mcmaster also speaks about. that pragmatic realism can head in any direction as the need arises and as it shines a light on the president of the united states. >> and, natasha, on the russia probe, we saw a very canny president as i said in my introduction to this news, that is president who tweets a lot of things for reaction. just today he was clearly
to the strategy to invoke alan him as an independent person and then falsely claim and easily rebuttal false claim that he doesn't know him? >> well, he feels the need to get some kind of legitimacy for the argument that there's been no collusion and even if there was it wouldn't necessarily be against the law. now, alan is not the most reliable person to make that kind of an analysis these days. he's been making the living going on fox news to be a commentator and good to donald trump and one sided in the analysis and critiqued constantly by outside legal experts saying, actually, it really depends. if there was some kind of conspiracy to collude with the russians, that's been a crime. >> he's been on conservative media and i invited him and talked to him about the russia probe. he has a view. why does the president in your view and then, david, follow on this, say so falsely and so
easily provable falsely i don't know him? >> because he wants to maybe distract from the fact that he has been talking to alan on a regular basis, perhaps. we don't really know how often they have spoken and make it seem like an outside observer with no stake in the game. >> so a fake third party validation. david? >> well, there's a part of donald trump that is as you say canny and a part that's not. if donald trump is not going to fire bob mueller, then his next strategy is to rev up republican animosity to mueller, to make this a tribal badge, to discredit the investigation so that whatever it does find, even harmful, that you have prepared the minds of the supporters to reject whatever the facts are. that means he needs to join that message. i'm not sure that his assurances that he believes mueller will be fair, i think that may be something where he is talking to himself. and patting himself on the back.
and reassuring himself so great he is and beloved and everybody will like him and meets that psychic need. as for alan's legal analysis, look. he's a great advocate. if you have committed a serious crime and you're trying to persuade the jury not to convict you, you'll do well with alan dershowitz. he's a courtroom lawyer and what he's saying is untrue and saying things like if the president is acting in the course of the duties he can't obstruct justice. what about an order to burn the national archives, to cover up the misdeeds? reports to the president of the united states s. that in the -- can he do that? and alan said that's an example of something the president can't do. i don't think his arguments are meant to be convincing but they're reassuring to the president. >> yeah.
on the -- what i think you put well, the noncanny side back to the ambassador on the foreign policy. i don't mean to be doing presidential fan fiction and jumping around as much as he does in the interview but i have such great experts and wanted you more deeply on the asia points you raised and he talks about this with regard to china. he says, you know, he like it is president. he treated me better than anybody's ever been treated in the history of china. you know that. they're hurting us on trade. the only thing more important to methane trade is war. okay? and it goes to the point david mentions is that's not very canny to blatantly admit what's most important to him very complex foreign policy socio economic political military relationship is how he was personally treated. >> indeed. it's quite extraordinary. i think what we see is such grandiosity in the interview, your point earlier, ari, when you said that the president said
he could do anything he wanted to with the justice department, this sends a signal all over the world that he is an autocrat just like the autocrats all over the world. in our system, as you pointed out, he cannot do anything he wants to do with the justice department. any time he wants to do it. and we are in a world where we have got the rise of autocrats, whether that's putin up for re-election in march and of course going to win either with 98% or 99% of the vote. because he doesn't need even though his spokesman said we're trying to meddle in the election, he doesn't need us meddling in the election. he has total control over it. the same is true for a number of leaders around the world and president xi has just put himself in the chinese constitution up with mao. so this is a guy filled with the grandiosity of what he thinks he accomplished in the world when the accomplishments in diplomacy and peace and security for the united states are not all that much.
>> well, i mean, that's heavy. a lot of heavy stuff. natasha, i'll go to you on a lighter point. "the new york times" reporter talking about the immediate fallout of this, breaking news right now. he said as senior fairly senior trump adviser and he said, what interview? today? >> right. so that it was very clear in this interview that trump was not surrounded by aides and an impromptu meeting that mike schmidt encountered him having lunch and then going back to what ambassador sherman said. trump made an astonishing admission in the interview which is that he was saying that mueller, he expected mueller to treat him fairly but he also said that the controversy is really revving up the base. and he said that in particular congressmen coming up to defend him and pointing out that this is a witch hunt. that's a big indication that
trump may not move to fire mueller expecting the bis and certain members of congress to do the dirty work for him. >> i think you have -- you i'm going through it. you make a point, natasha. we'll take a pause and joy reid's coming on and lawrence is coming on. it's a party. i want to read the exact quote to understand what you just referenced. donald trump says, the mueller investigation, quote, really angered the base and made the base stronger. my base is stronger than it's ever been. congress min, some of the congressmen unbelievable in pointing out what a witch hunt the whole thing is so i think it's been proven there's no collusion as you mentioned. to look through all of this something that many compared to a potential watergate as only a thing of a muscle makes his core base support stronger. a debatable proposition as is. and an ethically dubious one. an important point to pause on. natasha, wendy, and david, thank you each of you. i appreciate it. >> thank you.
coming up, joy reid is pouring over the transcript. i'm watching her in the hallway at msnbc and see her doing it. she's going to come back in and give us her breaking thoughts on what else she found in there. later, mitch mcconnell admitting 2018 not looking so good for the gop.
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york times." he says there was collusion with the russians and the democrats, a lot of collusion. "the new york times" reporter michael schmidt says dossier, going to so many other elements and podesta's firm. let's get to it with joy reid, host of "am joy" and national correspondent and the woman holding down the anchor chair when this came across. i have so many questions and first on the collusion. >> yeah. we wiped -- our plan out the window. donald trump wanting to do and sort of a news editor that tries to scramble our plan and we are the highlight pen twins today. we have this going on. just to go through it quickly, donald trump, i'm on page of 18 of the transcript and remarkable reading donald trump outside of the edited once they put it together "new york times," just reading the transcript and the number of directions his mind goes and i think of a bird in "peanuts" and friend of snoopy, no collusion, no collusion, and
coming back to it. i have counted 15 times, sometimes 2 or 3 times in 3 sentences and goes back to the election, whether at the fbi or whether he's, you know, i don't know, dedicating a ship, back to, i won the election because i amy just the master of the electoral college and goes on and on and on and the collusion idea is democrats making excuses. the mind is almost as if he's stuck in time. and he can't get passed the night of the election and he keeps coming back to it over and over again. >> that goes to, again, i don't do a ton of emotional analysis. but it does seem to be a happy place for him. >> yeah. >> and he says in here that he understood the electoral college. that he understood where to go. he was going to maine five times and the way it works while he says hillary clinton was running like she was pursuing the popular vote. >> that's ridiculous. anybody who watched the campaign, he was going wherever
he thought he could get a big rally an make it back home by bedtime. the idea that this strategy all along was to do what he did and win the way he did, why were so many of the campaign team chatting with russians promising hillary clinton's e-mails? i think it is clear what they thought would be the winning strategy was to prove that hillary clinton committed some crime that she hidden in the e-mails she didn't turn over when she turned over the state department e-mails. they thought the e-mails were the key to the strategy not this whatever he is talking about with the elect trorl college. >> and then something we have not touched on at all and i think will get a lot of attention and seems to be revealing into how he sees his role in this world we're all living in and speaking to ambassador sherman of the threats in china and north korea. he is the president of the united states and a man who like it or not overseeing the largest nuclear arsenal in the history of the world. >> right. >> this is how he sees the path to re-election. quote, we're going to win
another four years, for a lot of reasons, but most importantly -- this is most important, because our country's starting to do well. another reason this i'm going to win another four years is because newspaper, tv, all forms of media will tank, the president says tonight, if i'm not there because without me their ratings, talking about our ratings and others, are going down the news and print media, without me "the new york times" will not be the failing "the new york times" but the failed "the new york times" and they have to let me win and eventually he says probably six months before the election, loving me saying please, please don't lose, donald trump. what does this tell us about how he sees himself and his role as president? >> it's remarkable. donald trump, you know, came to prominence for most americans as real estate tycoon or the host of "the apprentice," a tv show. as a tycoon, spent as much time trying to get page six and other
tabloids to put his name in the tabloid press, to tell people who he was dating, who he was marrying, to talk about his sex life, his love life, to make donald trump famous. then he becomes a head of "the apprentice." and he still seems to think he's in a tv show. donald trump is one of the most least opaque, most transparent we have ever had as president and what he just said there is he believes himself to be the lead character in a television show. and that without this television show's ratings america itself will tank. all of the media will tank without donald trump as the star of his own tv show. that is not the job of the president of the united states. it is not a tv show. as you said, it is the person with the nuclear codes. and i don't think donald trump has yet understood the gravity of the office and he thinks it's a show and people are watching the tv show rather than if people are watching more tv and more cable news and reading more "the new york times" because
they're terrified of donald trump! they despise him and he alarms them and want to know what he'll do next. >> we hear the term transaction a lot. a transactional way of thinking. he is presupposing a national transaction where he is the product, the media content being sold. i mean, i think more than anything i have seen this year, this is the most direct statement he doesn't see himself as the chief executive officer. he actually in his own mind sees him as the content officer. >> content officer and doesn't understand the server/leader model of the president of the united states. he is the employee -- >> yeah. >> of 326 million people. he is not a television product that's being sold by "the new york times" and msnbc and cnn. this is not a show. and i don't think he understands the gravity of the role he's taken on. being president is a burden, a responsibility. >> amen. >> you are the -- you are the servant leader of the united states.
you are not a product on tv. >> right. if all you care about is money and people who do and they shouldn't be in public service, we can go back to the famous jay-z maxim. i gnome out a businessman. i'm a business, man. >> he is an entertainer. donald trump is an ex-entertainer. i don't think he understood. look. ronald reagan was an entertainer. i don't think he got -- >> graduated, though. >> right. donald trump might as well have props and a jingle to go along with the presidency because he thinks that to succeed he must rate. to succeed, sir, you're supposed to lead, make the country more respected in the world. he's made it less respected. you're supposed to advance the economy. same economy that obama left him. he's not materially improved the lives of americans. he's terrified immigrants. he has rolled back protections for lgbt people. rolled back thought of criminal justice reform.
put communities vulnerable in fear and allowed neo-nazis to openly march in the streets. put on suits and declared themselves allies of the president of the united states. it is not a tv show, not an entertainer and doesn't understand this. >> happy new year. a lot to process there and we're thinking about. we thank joy reid for the time. i have a special guest coming up. lawrence o'donnell with a big announcement and next the gop tax bill punishing states that didn't vote for the president? one governor says it's got to stop. we'll explain. hurry, it's the final days of the ford year end sales event. ♪ i'm on top of the world, hey. ♪ it's your last chance of the year to get our best offer of the year: zero percent financing for seventy-two months, plus an extra one-thousand cash back across a full lineup of ford cars, trucks and suvs. so hurry and save big on america's best-selling brand. it's the final days of the ford year end sales event
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donald trump just told "the new york times" tonight that he does not have an understanding of the bills. i know taxes better than the greatest cpa. i know the details of health care better than most, better than most. i know more about the big bills than any president that's ever been in office. president really wants you to know he knows a lot about the tax bill and must know under this tax bill many people in the middle class and the working class actually will see their taxes rise. and according to "new york times," he would save about $11 million on his taxes. that's a 30% cut and save another $4 million plus on the estate tax bill eventually. i'm joined by david kay johnson, journalist who founded d.c. report.org and and also joining me john harwood of cnbc and veteran of many call interviews with ol tirns. i'm curious what john thinks
from that perspective. first to you, david. your thoughts on this interview? >> well, i think this is an extraordinary interview that shows you a lot of things about donald. works in word salad because his mind is salad. there's no focusing on any issue and knowing anything in depth. it thoroughly establishes how donald makes things up. he doesn't know jack about taxes. his own account and told me that. i had lunch with donald. he couldn't follow the tax advice and giving him. he just makes stuff up. we did get one interesting detail out of this. donald throughout the campaign used what were massively inflated numbers to describe the trade deficit with china. the imbalance. and in this interview, he mentions $300 billion a year of intellectual property theft and seems to explain the made-up number he had and finally a notion that he is an absolute ruler.
donald always thought of himself of president as a dictator. you have to do what he says. the supreme court made it clear even in first and second amendment cases that no right is absolute, no power is absolute. that is the fundamental principle of our constitution with the system of checks and balances. >> john? >> look, ari. i think this interview is profoundly disturbing. if you read it and think about it. the way the president speaks in such grandiose terms about himself suggests a level of delusion. i save coal. i was treated better than anyone in the history of china. i did things that ronald reagan couldn't do. the news media has to keep me president because the entire media system would fall apart without me. this suggests a level of mental functioning which is not particularly acute and when he
starts talking about the russia investigation and he says 16 times there's been no collusion, absolutely no collusion, everyone agrees there's no collusion and some point you're just kind of babbling and this is the president of the united states and it cannot be reassuring to even people who support his policies to hear him speak in this way. >> is this in format, john, not in substance but in format is this a sort of end of year cota to the remarks he made to as many business leaders and people across the spectrum to the great shame of charlottesville in that these were both times where his staff and his team and the professionals around him from general john kelly on down to his family did not want, did not plan or orchestrate for him to do this and he just breaks out of all rules and convention against any strategy to speak,
to do what he feels he must do and in doing so offer some revelations about as you put it his state of mind but also a total lack of protecting his own self interest? >> precisely. he doesn't seem to be aware of what he is revealing in these interviews. and the -- anyone who speaks about himself in the kind of terms that he does, absolute right to control the justice department, i know more than the greatest cpa. these are statements that are obviously cartoonishly ridiculous. and the fact that the president would feel free to say them to "the new york times" suggests that he is not perceiving his own best interests or the interests of the white house. >> david, no offense to cpas. it's not even a brag i'm that familiar with that people who have ascended to high office or being president would feel the
need to go there. it seems that in the china remarks, in being the center of the media capitalist universe, in the cpa remarks, in his claim that he has a better mastery of health care than most presidents and when he said no one knew it would be this complex, any individual claim sounds silly when you quote it, but together when's the over-organizing principle here? >> well, donald lives in this world where he creates his own reality and if he says it that means it's true. and he's delusional. john is exactly right about this. donald is delusional. i know -- i'm attacked by all sorts of people for saying this but he is. he is delusional and you are seeing his, you know, this manifestation of his belief. donald, remember, believes and he's actually said at times he's superior to the rest of us. that, of course, he should be president. and you're seeing in this interview ridiculous and john
had the right phrase. cartoonish statements about himself. the interview also shows by the way that he's scared. the comments as i read them knowing donald now for almost 30 years, his comments about mueller and the implication that if i don't think he's fair to me i'll get rid of mueller one way or another goes to the heart of power unto himself. >> he doesn't say he'll get rid of him but says more broadly, vaguely that he can do anything with doj. >> that's right. and that's a clear implication to -- of what he is thinking about doing here. and if he's threatened and put in the box he'll do whatever he thinks he needs to did. >> john, i want to go to john on a final point. from your reporting on many administrations, what would be going on in the inner circle of the white house right now as we're getting reports of "the new york times" that they're just learning about this with the rest of the nation. >> they're trying to figure out
what toe say tomorrow and reminiscent of the moment when the president sent out the tweet on the twitter account saying that michael flynn lied and to the fbi and not just the vice president and then the president's lawyer saying, that wasn't him. i wrote it that. they're trying to come up with some sort of a -- a way of talking about this interview that is reminiscent of that kind of cleanup. the other point to make, ari, the president talking about the base is stronger than ever, i knew what was happening in alabama, i provided so much help to the republican candidate but he fell short and i knew the other guy was going to -- roy moore was going to lose, these statements are crazy. he's been below 40% for months. his base is smaller than it was. there's a profound national reaction to him that produced some electoral results in the state of virginia that caused
republicans to or helped republicans lose a race in alabama that they shouldn't have -- that no one dreamed they could have lost. if he doesn't understand the reaction against him, that shows he's not in touch with what's going on. >> david k. johnson and john harwood, thank you both. president trump says because it's cold outside, he thought about climate change. how's this affecting his ability to get things done? that's ahead.
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tonight might be one of those nights where you might be wondering does it feel like the campaign never stopped and why. well, we have something to show you. the new report about donald trump tweeting more than 2,000 times since inauguration alone and trump mentioned on twitter 901 million times and counting. it will be more after tonight's "the new york times" interview, of course. so with three years left in the year, donald trump was the top news story on twitter for 348 days so far of 2017. here are some of the most talked about moments. >> this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration
period. >> i'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical islamic terrorists out of the united states. >> but regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. >> the white house dodging, deflecting but not denying the president shared classified information with russia and beneather is he. >> we had a great meeting. >> i was elected to represent the citizens of pittsburgh, not paris. >> you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. >> when somebody disrespects our flag, to say get that son of a [ bleep ] off the field right now. >> get out and vote for roy moore. do it. >> and right now, yes, donald trump is also trending on twitter thanks to that impromptu "the new york times" interview that surprised his staff. i'll talk about this and whether
it is what he says so essential to the entire country he stay president next. any object. any surface.
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>> social media donald trump says got him there and he's again trending on twitter because of this impromptu interview and joined by daniel dale and korean jean pierre. corrine, your take on the interview? >> outright scary, ari. continues to show that donald trump refuses to acknowledge, understand, and combat russia's interference in our election which proves that he is a clear and present danger to our country. and then the part with the justice department, it's like he wants them to have loyalty to him, not to the constitution or the rule of law. it's incredibly troubling. >> yeah. you say troubling. this goes to a point that's fairly obvious but either he is unaware of or deliberately pretending not to be aware of and things gather attention and
scary to pull the lever as a president. daniel, a quote trending on twitter is the claim to do anything about the doj, plenty in here about foreign policy an enthose threats and then the other things that are bizarre which we have been discussing, you know, we the media give donald trump a lot of attention. we the media existed before him and would presumably exist after him and yet let's read another point. he says why he's going to win in 2020, because newspapers, tv, all forms of media will tank if i'm not there without me their ratings down the tubes. without me "the new york times" will be the failed "the new york times." they basically have to let me win, donald trump argues tonight. eventually six months before the election they'll be loving me saying, please, please, don't lose, donald trump. daniel? >> let's get this straight. media the fake media because it's so mean to trump but come election time the media's going to be begging for trump victory and therefore going to be nice to him to save itself.
it just doesn't make sense. it's -- >> do you think he believes it? >> i don't know. so hard to get into his head. i think what we know is see in the interview is this combination of narcissist and true winner of the popular vote. it's, you know, he's been the most powerful man in the world a year now and can't get over anything that might suggest he is not the best and coolest in ever possible way. it is astonishing. >> yeah. karine, the claims he makes suggests he wants to jump from the campaign promises to when it's all done. you really get the feeling the middle has no interest to him and so the other claims we have been discussing with reporters tonight he i save coal, i save the economy, it is like, even presidents with great legislative records don't usually like plant the full victory flag 11 months in.
>> yeah. all about me, me, me, i, i, i. a child in the oval office behind the desk making decisions and he just hasn't grown into the position of presidency, into that office, and he won't and i think that's the place that we have come to and we have to understand that it's just never going to happen. he never grew into being the republican nominee, candidate, and he's certainly not done it as president. look. donald trump spends more time live tweeting about fox news, about cable news than he does seemingly to be spending time in national security briefings and it's just -- it's just completely insane. here's the thing. it is not just us the progressives or the news media or whoever that believe that he's doing -- unpresidential and also his own base and complained and asked that he stop doing it. but once again, he just is all about himself and it's this kind of me, me, me complex.
>> daniel, a point we visited earlier, what does it tell you that he didn't involve anyone from a criminal defense lawyer, his own interest to aides which is in the propaganda or communications interest to be present for this? >> you know, he doesn't think more beyond the moment. i think we've come to learn that he operates on his gut. we don't know why he did this interview. we don't know why he said the things he said. he thinks about, you know, the moments ahead of him without concern for the long term ramifications and seen that in the media strategy, in the foreign policy, seen that in the way approaches legislation. we have learned that there's no grand plan here but only in donald trump's head on a given day. >> a theory of a goldfish presidency. daniel, karine, thank you both. happy new year. >> thank you. up next, lawrence o'donnell back live on "the last word."
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the show together. >> sure. >> this week. really appreciate it. the last time i was on was last wednesday night and since then the kind fund has raised $600,000 over the christmas holiday. that's actually bringing our total for this year, which was really just this month, we have only been talking about it for this month, $1.7 million and pushing the total since began this at the beginning of the program seven years now across the $16 million mark. so as of tonight we have collected through the generosity of the audience, a total of $16,050,816 and still with all of that to provide desks for hundreds of thousands of kids in malawi, still most of the kids in the schools do not have desks. we have a long way do go and the audience know that is and they
have been wonderfully committed to this. this month we have been crushed with the news that this year we have actually been able to speak about the kind fund on show less than any other year but the audience hung in there with us and has made it a giving habit and they've really done another amazing generous year for us. >> as you're speaking, we are looking at some of the extraordinary footage. as a final question to you, lawrence, what do you learn from this? what have you seen out there working with the people who are benefitting from the audience's generosity? >> what we -- we keep going back and some of the same schools and seeing the same kids and watching that progress and this year revisited with maureen vester who we met last year in first grade. this year he's in second grade. and she's just doing fabulously well and hopes to become a doctor and going to need our help to get through high school, through the girls tuition fund
that we also have constructed within the kind fund. and so, it's the stories of the individual kids that i think the audience appreciates the most and connects to the most and so much of the comment i get about specific kids the audience met on the show through our video that we manage to bring back from malawi. and those personal stories tell the real story. >> it's extraordinary and reminds me of something you told me once an came back after the accident you had where you said you wanted to focus more on good news and i think you and the audience have been a part of making some good news and the pictures tell part of that story so thank you to everybody and thank you for joining yours show. happy new year, lawrence. >> thank you very much. happy new year to you. really appreciate everything you do for the show and thank you. >> of course, sir. good night to you, lawrence. but not good night to everyone watching. the's been a lot of news.
reforms, adding into this mix, of course, this is now a mid-term election years year. things are not easy in an election year so that adds into this complicated agenda they have. up here on the hill tomorrow white house aides will be meeting with top congressional leadership trying to work towards that government potential shutdown showdown that we might have in a couple weeks and this weekend, speaker of the house, paul ryan, and mitch mcconnell, will be heading to camp david to meet with the president about the legislative agenda ahead. >> also changes in the senate. al franken, minnesota senator, stepping down today and then all eyes on utah's republican orrin hatch, will he run for an eighth term? what are we expecting? >> that's right. this is franken's last official day. tomorrow his replacement, tina smith, will be signed in. he steps down amid multiple allegations of sexual misconduct. that officially ends his term here in congress today. of course utah's orrin hatch, this is a big question mark,
>> keeping the government funded is top of mind. after that it does get tricky. when it comes to daca, the other thing that is overhanging this entire thing, other than this deadline, is the 2018 midterms. immigration has sank republican leaders in the past. what this deal will say is something that we just don't know yet because the house and the senate aren't really communicating as well as they could be. t"the daily beast" had a report that carlos cabello a republican from the miami area, someone that, obviously, supports daca, didn't even know what jeff flake was talking to mcconnell about. they need -- the republicans need to get on the same page here before anything else can go forward. >> kevin, as a republican strategist, you know, this is -- let's just not forget, the fact that the wall that the president is key manding money for from congress is the wall that he
kept saying mexico was going to pay for. >> right. >> to jackie's point, immigration is hard to attack a tackle any year. it's really hard in a midterm year. are you going to get everything or comprehensive immigration reform? how do republicans thread the needle? >> on the politics you can't go into a 2018 election unless you have your base secured and locked down. republicans are -- the thinking here is that this is an issue that does play to their base. it is a fight that they believe they want to have. i think there are a great number of risks with it, though. as you -- if you look at some of the swing districts around the country, these suburban areas are areas where daca is -- does have a high-level of favorability. you turn off voters if you get into a very tough immigration issue battle up on capitol hill. a lot of the suburban voters want to see that. there are risks for democrats.
while they -- locking in and to a fight with the president over an issue like immigration does animate their base, at the same time, there is a high level of support dealing with border security, known as the wall. that is one of the things -- those are the political dynamics that are going to drive this fight. i think what's going to happen eventually, poppy, this is not going to be very easy, it's not going to happen quickly in the first quarter. it's going to be an issue that's fought all the way until the last minute. >> the thing is you say, brian, i'll have you address this, border security, no funding for border security, known as the wall, it's not also known, because there are a number of democrats that will support border security but won't fund a physical wall here. you see democrats like dick durbin of illinois saying we have a lot of leverage here because of the budget me negotiations and the deadline that is looming that jackie pointed out. do you think democrats have a lot of leverage because of that, brian? >> i agree they have a lot of leverage and not only that, i
think that they will actually start to face a lot of internal heat from progressive activists. if democratic leaders on capitol hill do not assert that leverage in the upcoming negotiations around the spending bill to keep the government open, remember, poppy, back last fall, you had a brief period where republican leaders were throwing their hands up because donald trump was circumventing them cutting deals with chuck and nancy as he called it. the infamous deal he struck with chuck and nancy pertained to a solution to daca and chuck and nancy sort of both held press conferences, sort of basking in the glow of having struck this deal with the president around the backs of paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. the president went back on his word on that. and now we've had two temporary extensions of the government funding without democrats getting any relief for the daca kids who remain in limbo. the daca kids, the activists, are going around and holding democrats' feet to the fire saying hold donald trump to his promise or we will hold you, the democrats, accountable. just before christmas, you saw i think it was 18 or 20 democrats that voted with the republicans
to continue funding the government without any deal on daca. i think if those 18 to 20 democrats again fall in line with the republicans and don't take steps like senator kamala harris of california and others running in 2020 have taken, saying my support is contingent resolving the daca issue, you will see the daca activists showing up at democratic offices to complain. >> it's important, jackie, the handful of democrats in congress i've had on in the last few days, none of them have said they'll give a cent to funding a wall. but they also won't give up, you know, anything on daca. where is that going to leave them? do democrats need to be -- need to bend a little bit here and be willing to give a little bit towards walt and border security, you name it, to not fail on the daca promise? >> i feel like border security and the wall are two different things. >> yeah. >> because even republicans -- they're going to have trouble getting republicans on the same
page as the wall and funding for that because you do have some republicans in the southwest in particular who aren't really crazy about the border wall. yeah, but i think on border security, you can see them bending on that, but as brian said, if they start funding the wall, they're going to hear from their base and hispanic activists -- remember how angry they were during president obama's term about what they saw as not enough attention to their issues. if democrats cave on some of these things that are fundamental and important, they're going to have some very interesting midterms and 2020 issues to contend with. >> kevin, what about some -- first entitlement reform, paul ryan, big win for him on taxes, now he would love to see entitlement reform. mitch mcconnell does not seem on board because he knows democrats aren't on board. then obamacare, trying it again on obamacare, senator lindsey graham says we're crazy if we
don't try this thing again. where do you see republicans going on those huge issues? >> yeah, poppy. this reminds me when i worked in the house, we used to say the democrats were the opposition but the senate was the enemy. there is always going to be these tensions between those two houses. i think that paul ryan, two things he's always wanted to do, and he's using this leadership to do it, the first tax reform, he conquered that, the second is entitlement reform. he believes it's fundamental to the long-term economic health of the country. i believe he will try to move forward on that. the window, though, again, on the legislation like that, that's very difficult to do and does require some level of bipartisanship, is very, very short because in a midterm election year like we're about to head into, ultimately the gravitational pull is for both parties to start showing where their contrasts are, what their differences are. if we don't see some sort of movement towards entitlement reform in the first quarter i don't see how we get it done over the long calendar of the
year. >> brian fallon, final word? >> i think mitch mcconnell is a realist and the idea some kind of big cut slashing of medicare and medicaid is going to make it ways through both chambers would be pushing republicans politically to the limit. you saw susan collins stretched to vote in favor of the tax package hear it from her constituents in maine. they lost a senate seat in alabama a new democrat sworn in, a one-seat majority. democrats are going to run on entitlement cuts based on what the tax bill will likely mean for those programs. if they actually make it even more plain by putting a bill on the floor that would seek to voucher medicare it will send a lot more republicans to their doom in the mid-terms this year. >> see how much will susan collins trusts mcconnell after this time around. >> right. >> thank you very much. jackie, kevin, brian, nice to have you. the unrest will end soon, that is what iranian leadership is saying this morning after we're in the midst of a sixth
day of the anti-government proesz. not so sure the protesters see it that way. we're following the latest developments in iran for you. the president facing a laundry list of items he would like to accomplish this year. can he convince democrats to get on board with any of it? we will ask one of them. time's up. some of hollywood's biggest stars are launching a new plan to combat sexual harassment, sexual assault, not just in hollywood, but in workplaces across this country. you see some of them there. a report ahead. went to ancestry, i put in the names of my grandparents first. i got a leaf right away. a leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. i learned that my ten times great grandmother is george washington's aunt. within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing to holy crow, i'm related to george washington. this is my cousin george. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com
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21, granted of those nine new deaths, six were at a police station. but still, more worryingly for those observing, the perpetual decades long standoff in iran between the moderate branch of government and the hardline clerics and security forces, often backing them up. today more disturbingly is the change in rhetoric in which hardliners have begun to blame outside influences trying to cast the protests on the street which they say themselves are about the economy, about political repression and unemployment. particularly the iranian supreme leader, ayatollah khamenei, he said today, quote, the enemy is waiting for an opportunity for a floor through which they can enter, to blame those with money, politics, weapons and intelligence for fomenting this protest. he a we are in its sixth day, geographically wider and more enduring, more intense, than i
think many thought entirely itself it was anticipated. there have been social unrest across iran quite regularly but not like this since 2009 where it's fair to say police and security forces were much more repressive and lethal in the response they took. given the increased focus now of the rising death toll, the duration we're seeing and the blame on foreigners, how do you negotiate calm? the protest movement that seems pretty sfon tains you at this point laxcks a clear leader. >> nick paton walsh in london, for that reporting, thank you. meantime there are protests that have erupted in pakistan as officials there have held emergency meetings today over president trump's latest tweet. you have crowds chanting, holding signs with president trump's face x'ed out hours after he tweeted that the country has given the u.s. nothing but lies and deceit and cnn has learned in the emergency meeting, pakistan'ses prime minister and a host of other top
military advisors and the white house says it will continue to withhold over $250 million in aid promised to pakistan. this morning, the president is weighing in also on the proposed talks potentially between north and south korea. here's had here's what he writes. sanctions and other pressures are going have an impact on north korea. soldiers are fleeing to south korea. rocket man wants to talk to south korea for the first time. perhaps that's good news. we will see. south korea has said we want to talk at the dmz with north korea as early as next week. they are waiting for a response from north korea. with us now is paula hancocks in seoul, south korea. this would be monumental and significant if this meeting did happen next week. >> absolutely, poppy. if south korea has anything to do with it, then it will happen. there really is a flurry of positive statements from different ministries here in south korea.
the president, moon jae-in, certainly has said consistently that he wants negotiations, dialog, engagement with north korea at some point. it's the ticket that he ran on to gain the presidency. he's also said he wants north korea to be part of the winter olympics which start next month. this is really what this is focused on at this point, the potential that sports could help the politics. now the unification ministry heres a suggested next tuesday, so january 9th, at the dmz at the border village, which is in north korea and in south korea, right on the border. as you say they haven't had a response yet from north korea, but they have also said if north korea disagrees with those details, we can change the date, we can change the time, we can change the format. really trying to bend over backwards to make sure that they can have these talks. now they say it's important to have high-level talks at such an early date because the olympics are so close. kim jong-un said he's willing to
send a delegation to the olympics. south korea wants north korea there. but they have to hurry, they say if they want to iron out the details. it is potentially a significant development, but we will have to wait and see what north korea makes of that offer. poppy? >> whether they will come to the dmz and actually have these talks next week, paula hancocks, thank you. joining me now, military analyst and retired air force colonel cedric leighton and security analyst gail [ inaudible ]. colonel, let me begin with you on the talks. if they happen there, incredibly significant between north korea and south korea, and the president has been actually pretty clear on this tweet, they could be good for the u.s. or bad for the u.s. it could be good for the nuss staving off -- for the u.s. in staving off acceleration of the program, potential for nuclear war. it could be bad for the u.s. because they could drive a wedge between the united states and south korea and china, for example. right? >> absolutely. poppy, it's a clear indication
that kim jong-un is probably trying to, at the very least, drive a wedge between all of the parties that you mentioned there. but on the other hand, this is also an opportunity -- i think that one of the historical analogies that we can potentially look at here is the relationship that west germany crafted with east germany and the soviet union back in the early 1970s. they had this thing called politics of the east, and that kind of thing is precisely what president moon of south korea wants to do and he may have an opening to do that. this is one of those carrot and stick approaches. right now we're into carrots and we'll see how far that goes. >> gail, let's turn to iran. you're well versed in this issue. this is nothing new. this is an explosion of pent up anger and resentment that many in iran, many youth in iran, you've got unemployment there up to 40%, many of them feel as though this regime, this more moderate rouhani regime, is not
working for them. talk about the significance of what we're seeing in the streets of iran and the downplaying of it by the rouhani regime this morning. >> right. i think you see in some ways domestically they're trying to play it down while abroad everybody is trying to figure out how do we react in a way that doesn't look like we are speaking for the protests from international capitals, washington and berlin. what you really see is years of an austerity budget that has not led to job creation in a way that a country with half the population age 30 or understand in a region it's 65% age 30 or understand is struggling to find a footing. i don't think anybody saw the protests coming outside the country but a lot has changed since 2009. what'sap, telegram, right, smartphones, all of these did not exist in 2009 in the same way to really spread communication and spread video in the same way. i think you see the world really watching as economic discontent in the form of people upset
about the economy and opportunity and grievances, about governance and generational change, really come right into the fore and on your television screen. >> what kind of opportunity, colonel, is this for the trump administration, for president trump, who is not a fan of the nuclear deal, who wants to fully pull out of the nuclear agreement with iran? lindsey graham said a few days ago this is a perfect opportunity for the president to make a big address and to say this is why the iranian nuclear deal isn't working, the sanctions being lifted is not trickling down economically to the youth in iran, is that a wise move? is this helpful to him on that front? >> i think it's helpful in this sense, poppy, it is good that the president has basically said that we stand with the protesters. what is needed, though, in this particular case is a strategy, an overarching framework, in we, the united states, along with our partners, this is something that has to be done with other
nations, recognize what is going on in iran and can be helpful, but we're helpful indirectly. this has to be an iranian revolution, if it is, in fact, a revolution. it has to be something the iranians do themselves and we have to be very careful that our hands are not seen to be mixing too this at all. >> on pakistan, gail, this is an incredibly complex issue, incredibly complex and very strategically important relationship for the united states and the region. the trump administration applauding pakistan for helping get that north american family out of the hands of the taliban-linked group in october, now slamming pakistan for what he calls deceit and lies, withholding $255 million in foreign aid from pakistan until they do more to fight terrorism and more to help the u.s. in the fight in afghanistan. how do you see this playing out? >> this is a long, simmering debate that has exploded on social media. twitter has become the diplomatic cable of this moment. things that might have been said
in private among folks either between allies or among folks within the same national government are now playing out in a very public and very global town square and what you see is what afghan officials have said for years, what many inside the united states administrations, including the obama administration, have said for years, about not enough support coming from the pakistani side. but i don't think anybody quite expected to see it play out on twitter, all of the grievances put into one place in 280 characters. >> how do you see it, finally, colonel? you have a very important strategically but also nuclear power. >> absolutely. pakistan is a key element there and one of the things that we have to be very careful of, although the president is right in one sense in that the pakistanis have actually ob skondsed with a lot of u.s. aid to their country, on the other hand they have also helped us in many, many ways, including the capture of back in 2001 of khalid shakih mohammad --
>> right. >> >> -- they have done many big things for us, and we have to be careful to balance that because if we don't the chinese and other players will come in and create problems not only for us but for india and other nations in the region and we want to be very careful to keep a lid on that pot before it boils over. >> colonel leighton, and gail, nice to have you both. thank you so much. >> absolutely. white house officials are set to meet with top leadership from both parties in congress. moments ago, the president slammed democrats. is that a way to get them on board? ahead.
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you get up to 5 lines of talk and text at no extra cost. so all you pay for is data. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. call, visit, or go to xfinitymobile.com. so if the president wants democrats to get behind his agenda or even part of it, here's his strategy this morning. the president writes, democrats are doing nothing for daca. just interested in politics. daca activists and hispanics will go hard against dems and will start falling in love with republicans and their president. we are about results. joining me to talk about this is democratic congressman of california, jared huffman. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> did the president win you over with that message?
>> i've stopped responding to the daily provocations in the president's twitter feed. that's not a good way to win over democrats. a better way would be to work with us in good faith on solutions. >> okay. so let's talk about working in good faith on solutions which many, many americans want on many fronts, but really a lot on daca. this is not a republican or democratic issue. this is an american issue. >> yeah. >> over 80% of americans polled say they want some sort of pathway for so-called d.r.e.a.m.ers brought to this country at the average age of 6. so what will you give to get the president and republicans on board for a daca deal before the march deadline? >> well, poppy, the deal is already there. we have a bipartisan working group in congress that could have the votes to pass the d.r.e.a.m. act tomorrow. we need to be allowed to have that vote. >> the president says he won't sign it. you know the president says he won't sign it unless you give something to funding the wall. >> well, we've certainly been
willing to support border security. we're not going to fund a crazy border wall that the president promised the world mexico would pay for. that is not working in good faith. >> okay. but his latest line is, no wall, no daca deal. will you give at all? >> if it's a crazy border wall that the president has promised and talked about and said mexico would pay for, no. the d.r.e.a.m.ers are not a bargaining chip for that, frankly, very controversial and widely opposed bad idea. there is a deal to be had for the d.r.e.a.m.ers, for the continuation of the daca program. the president himself agreed to the broad principles of that deal months ago, so, you know, he's -- i'm not sure what he's doing with his tweets in the last few days, but we need to get back to the table, working in good faith, building on the consensus that's already there on a bipartisan basis with
members of congress. >> 2018 is a big year. it's a midterm election. you're up for re-election. and, you know, who is going to control both houses of congress, is a huge question. the only folks with lower approval rating than the president right now are you guys, seriously. congress' approval rating averaged 19% last year. when you sit back and look at that, what do you think? >> well, i think as an institution congress is performing terribly, so that shouldn't be surprising at all. i will tell you that in my case, in the case of many of my colleagues, our approval ratings, a heck of a lot better than the president's when it comes to our districts and constituents. >> impeachment, some of your fellow democrats have gone very far on this and have put forth articles of impeachment against the president. but you've even said that you're on board with them. you haven't gone so far as to introduce them. >> right. >> you're warning that it's
dangerous territory for democrats, especially in a midterm election year, to necessarily go so far on impeachment without bipartisan support because you point back to the impeachment of president clinton. what's the lesson for your fellow democrats in a midterm year? >> democrats and all members of congress need to be honest and careful and responsible when we talk about impeachment. part of our job is holding the president accountable and dozens believe that impeachable offenses have been committed and we ought to be having that conversation. but it can't be the only thing we do. we have to be honest with the american people. we're nowhere close to having the political support across party lines to actually start that type of proceeding. so i think we have to keep building the foundation of accountability through protecting the mueller investigation, through congressional investigations and we got to keep simultaneously working on issues that matter to the american people. better future for them, better jobs, better wages.
better training. all sorts of infrastructure investment, things we should have been doing over the past year while our republican colleagues were playing around trying to repeal obamacare and passing a tax scam. >> is it dangerous, your message to fellow democrats, it's dangerous for us to just run on impeachment, impeachment, russia, russia, you know, anti-trump, anti-trump, to win to retake even say the house? do your fellow democrats need a much more thoughtful, proactive message? >> we have to be honest and the honest truth we're nowhere close to 218 votes to start impeachment. part of being honest also is when asked the question, have impeachable offenses been committed, i think anyone who takes the time to look into this, has to conclude that they have. we should be spending, in my opinion, about 80% of our time talking on issues, talking about issues like daca, like better jobs, like an economy that works
for everyone, investing in infrastructure, broadband to better served areas and 20% of our time on the other part of our job to hold the president accountablep that includes a conversation about impeachment and 259th amendment and a dangerous president doing damage to this country and the world. >> you see what you would deem impeachable offenses. we don't know the results of the mueller investigation or congressional investigations at this point. before you go take a look at these numbers. you're not going to love them but these are the numbers. the fund-raising numbers. as we all know money matters a lot in politics. the rnc has doubled what the dnc raised in terms of money last year. you're up for re-election and look at those numbers, does that worry you and should that worry democrats? in >> well, the rnc doesn't have a lot to do with democratic or republican congressional races. it has a lot to do with paying the trump legal bills. >> for the party, does it
concern you for the party? as the president sits with 35% approval rating but the party is raising a lot? >> there are other metrics. you can look at the dcccc to our republican colleagues and we're doing just fine and setting records. the funds will be there. the real question is will the message break through. i think we're seeing signs from alabama, new jersey, other places, that yeah, the message is breaking through. people have had it with this reckless trump agenda and ready for change, ready for an agenda that works for the american people. >> some would argue alabama was an anomaly given the republican candidate there. i hear you and we'll be watching. congressman jared huffman, thank you. >> thanks, poppy. a law in israel makes it harder to divide jerusalem. we will tell you what it is. a live report from the city next. heartburn.
of israel, it's the most sensitive, perhaps the most important issue in the israeli/palestinian conflict. o oren lieberman joins us from jerusalem. this changes the number of votes needed but for something incredibly important? >> right. it requires an even larger majority of israel's parliament to give up any part of jerusalem to a foreign entitity. that would be the palestinians and negotiations. it tries to take jerusalem off the table in negotiations by requiring such a large majority. because jerusalem is so central, such an important part of the israeli/palestinian conflict it makes any pursuit of a two-state solution all that much more difficult. it has a second part here. it also allows israel's parliament to essentially change the borders of jerusalem on its own, to redraw the municipal map. that allows it to pursue a plan that would remove palestinian neighborhoods from jerusalem in an attempt to ensure israel's --
or jerusalem's jewish majority as the capital of israel there. poppy? >> and what does this do to the president's hope for a two-state solution? i mean the work that jared kushner is doing on that front, does it make all but impossible, does it make it much more difficult? >> it was long shot to begin with, ever since trump took office. when he recognized jerusalem as the capital of israel the palestinians walked away and said we no longer view the u.s. as the impartial negotiator here and not dealing with whatever it is that trump has planned. at this point after the latest law that was just passed the palestinians have said this is a declarations of war against the palestinian people and it shows that the israel and the u.s. are no longer interested in a just and lasting peace. now it's become more difficult after that because israel has attempted to take jerusalem off the table, which means trump not only has to deal with the
palestinian challenge but the israeli challenge. yet, as of repeatedly, he still insists he's pursuing the ultimate deal, the question is how, because it no longer looks as if there's some reasonable way to try to get both sides to the table and actually negotiate the issues here. >> a really significant move in israel. appreciate the reporting tonight from jerusalem. so ahead for us, hollywood's most powerful women have set up something remarkable, frankly, saying time out with a letter to sister, in solidarity we stand, a move to prevent workplace harassment and abuse not just in hollywood but across america. the plan, next.
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"reliable sources" brian stelter. khloe, you've been on top of this with breaking news. this is a big, big deal looking at these women. what is the hope that it will actually affect change? you're right, poppy, this is a huge dealing. over 300 men and women in the entertainment industry unveiled "time's up" earlier this week with an open letter saying that their plan is to fight sexual harassment and discrimination for men and women across all industries, not just in hollywood, and in doing so, with this open letter that hundreds of celebrities signed, both men and women, they have launched a legal defense fund and have already raised over $13 million of their $15 million goal, which is to provide subsidized legal support for men and women who have experienced harassment and abuse in the workplace. >> just pulling up some of the women if we can on the screen who are behind this, these are the biggest names in hollywood. >> reese witherspoon, alyssa
milano -- >> they're not just pushing for that, they're pushing for gender parody across film studios, tv studios, looking to bridge the wage gap. also, they are fighting to, you know, go to washington to make sure that there's legislation that penalizes companies for using nondisclosure arguments, silence people, you know, so it's a very good move and they're also asking all men and women to wear black to the golden globes this weekend in support of this growing movement. >> we will see a lot of that on the red carpet. talking about the dmanondisclos agreements, that's a huge thing that gretchen carlson brought down roger ailes at fox news, she's been fighting for legislatively in congress and now another big appointment for her now. >> to be taking over the miss america organization, this is a result of leaked e-mails that showed the former head of miss america, the ceo, talking in the disparaging terms about some of the women, some of the winners,
contestants, this was reported by huff post before christmas and now the ceo is out and gretchen carlson coming in. she was miss america in 1989. this is the first time one of the actual winners will be running the organization. kind of think that should have happened a long time ago. here is carlson taking over. also gives her a high-profile position as she is helping to lead this charge. all the stories that are really related, the "today" show pointing hoda kotb -- >> first time we've seen -- >> two women anchors. saw it on "gma" 15 years ago. now it's significant given the stories about harassment and problems in the workforce and questions about whether systemic change is possible in 2018, not just firingings, but systemic change. you see hollywood trying to do that, different organizations doing it as well. >> what will you be looking for? one thing that is pretty similar in hollywood and in washington is the lack of female leadership on the executive level in the
entertainment industry. you have big-name women, you just don't have parody when it comes to men and women, like you don't have parody when it comes to men and women in congress. what are you going to be looking at in 2018 to tell me actual change is coming. >> we're going to be looking for more women in higher, powerful positions in hollywood at these film studios, at these tv studios, streaming services, there's a lot of powerful men out in those positions, so there are openings for women to fill those shoes. >> yeah. amazon, for example. >> true. that's something we're going to be looking for. in terms of the near future, this weekend at the golden globes your better believe that message is going to be about the #metoo movement and no more harassment and inequality. >> what are you looking for? >> the gender parody point is crucial. there's a lot of of talk right now. 2018 has translated to action. amazing to see these women organizing. >> our friend brook baldwin has a great series tomorrow on cnn.com, american women, and one of the women profiled is ava.
>> yeah. >> powerful woman in hollywood. thank you very much. happy new year. we appreciate it. day two of 2018, president trump tweeting about iran, north korea, former president obama. also taking on his own justice department, just a few of the headlines we have to get to. stay with us. at whole foods market, we believe in food that's naturally beautiful, fresh and nutritious. so there are no artificial colors, no artificial flavors, no artificial preservatives in any of the food we sell. we believe in real food. whole foods market.
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why? because information is powerful. that's our closing thought for you. and that does it for "the beat." i also want to say a big thank you to ayman mohyeldin and chris jansing for anchoring all last week. i will be back here at 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. big bad wolf. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. well, the president spent the weekend defending his mental stability. and look, i've been away for two weeks and ucome back to that kind of news. and perhaps more telling, his defense of his military -- or mental stability only raised more questions about, you guessed it, his mental stability. and then there is the new hope of the resistance. like other heroic figures, she goes by one name and one name
president. on saturday, president trump tweeted, actually, throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being really smart. i went from a very successful businessman to top tv star to president of the united states on my first try. i think that would qualify as not smart but genius. and a very stable genius at that. that was the president over the weekend. well, the president told reporters he tweeted about his stability because of the charges in michael wolff's new book. >> i consider it a work of fiction. and i think it's a disgrace that somebody is able to have something, do something like that. the libel laws are very weak in this country. if they were strong, it would be very helpful. you wouldn't have things like that happen where you can say whatever comes to your head. but just so you know, i never interviewed with him in the white house at all. he was never in the oval office. i guess sloppy steve brought him into the white house quite a bit.
and it was one of those things. that's why sloppy steve now looking for a job. that would be steve bannon, of course. another guy he doesn't like. according to michael wolff, the author of the new book, the people around the president think something is wrong with their boss. let's watch. >> everybody in this white house, and i keep saying this 100%, because it is 100% of the people closest to the president, to donald trump, believe that there is something wrong here, something -- something fundamentally wrong. something that scares them. as a matter of fact, they went from if there is any reason they stay in the white house now, it's because they are scared. they believe they have a responsibility to the american people. >> well, that scarce you. meanwhile, axios report there's is actually much less to the president's schedule than meets the eye. jonathan swan sitting to my left here writes president trump is starting his official day much later than he did in the early days of his presidency, often around 11:00 a.m.
this is largely to meet trump's demands for more executive time, that's in quotes, which almost always means tv and twitter time alone in the residence. trump's days in the oval office are relatively short, from about 11:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and during that time he usually has a meeting or two, but spends a good deal of time making phone calls and watching cable news in the dining room adjoining the oval office. for more i'm joined by jonathan swan -- i didn't mean to be sarcastic. jonathan swan of axios along with susan page and "washington post" eugene robinson. this is a great group to start me back. i have to tell you, when you're away for a couple of weeks and you've been reading all this stuff, what the hell is happening? the president of the united states is out there tweeting his mental defense, claiming he would pass the kind of competency test you would get when your relatives put you away. i mean, is he commedemented? your reporting. >> my own reporting is there are
white house staffers that question his stability -- >> is it mental stability or iq? is it brains or stability? >> i would say it's both. >> really? >> however. it is complete nonsense that it is 100% as michael wolff claims. that is just an second-degree murder. >> give me a percentage. . >> it's hard. it's hard to know. circumstances it high? >> i would say it's reasonable. it's a reasonable percentage there are senior staff who are -- who deride him privately, who i would say have contempt. >> why are they still there? i worked in politics for years. and you worked for somebody. you were loyal to that person. that's why you were working for them. i mean you always need a job, but that's why you were working for them. how do you defend why these people are still if they're dumping on their boss? >> it's better that you have good people there protecting the country. >> so they believe he is a little nuts and they got to protect the country from him? >> 100% there are people who believe that, yes. >> susan, you are reporting there are people in the white
house who believe this president is unstable and part of their patriotic duty is to be there to keep him from going off the rails? >> yes. i think that's some of the reason people are at the white house and in senior administration feel. >> you know what you're saying here. this is historic. i think we've had people like president wilson who got sick at the end, his wife had to be his caretaker. we had people who had deep depression like abraham lincoln, gene. >> yeah. >> but we didn't have anybody like this, this people thought he was starkers. >> not that i can remember. >> and nixon at the very end when he was drinking too much. >> right. nixon at the very end. and toward the end of ronald reagan's term, there were questions about, you know, whether he lost a step, right. >> but not unstable. not unstable. >> not like this. nobody to my recollection has questioned, number one, a president's basic fitness for the job in terms of his ability. >> is this 25th amendment stuff? is this the sense that maybe says somebody we'll have to come in and take him out some day
under the constitutional amendment, where you basically have the cabinet vote him out? . that is the dilemma with those who think the 25th amendment is how this ends. you need the vice president and the cabinet that the power should be transferred to the vice president. i think that is a very hard thing to envision. >> it's a left wing fantasy. this 25th amendment is a left wing fantasy. >> because? >> because susan just laid it out. there. >> is a reasonable number of people in the white house who think he sun stable. >> not 25th amendment. >> unstable? >> well, irrational, volatile. michael wolff says the 25th amendment is discussed every day in the white house. absolute nonsense. absolute nonsense. >> i agree that 25th amendment is not going to happen. it's just ridiculous to assumele that, unless he is just barking at the moon. literally, unless he is clearly off his rocker.
>> okay. >> it's not going to come up and it's not going to happen. >> impeachment is more likely than the 25th amendment. if the democrats win control of the house and the special counsel comes back with a damning report, it is conceivable, politically conceivable to have impeachment. >> more likely than any of that is -- >> look out. i think next time if the democrats win their house this fall, the subpoena power will be used next spring. >> exactly. >> and they will act. >> subpoena power. >> they have a huge number of democrats who want to impeach him now. by the time this thing goes its course, trump must know. >> congress has a power to restrain and constrain an out of control executive. and i think if the democrats were to win control, that would be the most likely thing. >> let's take a look at this. white house advise wed all watched this today. it was on yesterday. but it's been around all day. stephen miller defending his boss on cnn in an interview with jake tapper. they quickly grew heated, i'd
administration. watch the hatred and unfairness of this cnn flunkie. is trump actually watching this in realtime, or does stephen say guess what? you got to see how i did on cnn. he is the president of the united states and he is watching this stuff over the weekend. isn't he playing golf or doing something like that? >> chris, if you don't think this whole thing was orchestrated for exactly what we saw, they haven't jake tapper -- they have not given jake tapper on cnn, they have not given him a single senior administration official for weeks. to send stephen miller, the most provocative one out, there it was blood sport. >> they went no to provoke this. >> of course, of course. >> jonathan is absolutely right. they obviously wanted this fight. they're not in the habit of providing senior administration officials to gone jake tapper's show. they just don't do that. >> this is the 39% still with donald trump. >> just for donald j. trump. >> it's for him.
>> one of the reasons he was on was to publicly behead steve bannon. that was one of the purposes of him going on that show. >> you mean -- turkey, go on there -- for stephen miller go out there and gut him. >> the sloppy steve he calls him now. anyway, he was his hero. in a statement, steve bannon backtracked a bit from his criticism in the wolff book of the 2016 trump tower meeting with the russians. remember that? in june of '16. he called it treasonous and unpatriotic. yesterday bannon wrote donald trump is both a patriot and a good man. my comments were aimed at paul manafort, a seasoned campaign professional with experience and knowledge of how the russians operate. he should have known they were cunning and not our friends. according to michael wolff, however, that isn't true. let's watch. >> i like steve. i'm grateful for the time he gave me, the insights he gave me, and i don't want to put him
in more hot water than he is already in. >> that statement was false? >> it was not directed at manafort. it was directed directly at don jr. >> meanwhile, the steve bannon statement doesn't seem to have helped. according to bloomberg, trump's aides are tracking who came out with full throated criticism of bannon over the weekend. and they put out the word that the president is keeping score. bannon hoped his statement would begin to put the episode behind him. a half dozen source describe almost the exact opposite. trump remains angry at the disloyalty of his former strategist. susan, put this all back together. what is going on? is there anybody still -- i keep thinking. i was away. and i kept watching all that is going on in this country, i kept thinking this reminds me of the shakespeare play "julius cease
so caesar." eventually he had no real friends. he had sycophants, but he had brutuss around him. who is besides the sycophants who get paid and do what they're told, is there any grown-up person around twloump is still a trumpite and is still loyal to him? who gets on the phone i like the guy, he is smart, he is running the country well. are there people like that? tom barrack? people like that? >> who are not from the trump world, who have independent standing and who are still close to him. i think the chief of staff kelly is one who comes closest. someone who can tell the truth to trump and have standing with trump. >> does he believe in him, though, or does he believe he has to contain him? >> i think that's a fair question. i think he has recognized the limits of his ability to contain trump. so i think he tries to do what he can do. and he actually seemed to be more a defender of trump than you might have expected when he took the job. >> let's go back to how we started the segment. you secretary of defense reasonable number of people in the white house don't think the president's got it together. >> to be clear, they don't think
he is mentally deranged. they think that he is not up to the job, that he is unqualified for job, i. >> unfit for the job. >> doesn't have the requisite knowledge. you could use the word unfit, but again, they're not making psychiatric diagnosis. more he is ignorant and things like that. almost everyone who cover the white house hear that privately with all that conversation. >> the outside view, at least i do, i'm watching this. i watched presidents since i was born practically, since ike. and i never heard a president who seems to be so reactive. he cares what anybody says. he is the opposite of say ike who said the hell with that guy. >> exactly. he is super sensitive to any sort of criticism. and that's the way he is. i got to say, though, that i have spoken with people who've known him for many, many years who think he's different now whom. think he has -- that something isn't quite the same. that he he's more sensitive, th
he's got more of a hair trigger, that he is less able to digest and sort of process complicated information than he was before. now i have spoken with people who have said that. and i haven't known him for 40 years. so i can't evaluate that that's out there too. >> the pressure of having so many people dislike what he is doing. he has done things that make himself very unpopular. anyeyes, could say it's not the first time a president's mental fitness has been questioned. in fact, back in 2014, not a million years ago, donald trump tweeted i'm starting to think i there is something seriously wrong with president obama's mental health. why won't he stop the flights? psycho! that's trump talking. he was talking to the u.s. response to the ebola outbreak. he wanted the president to stop travel from west africa. he was using the words about mental health and psycho. i mean, he really doesn't have much to defend here about what people are saying about him right now. >> there is an old saying, there is a tweet for everything. literally everything trump says, you can go back and find where
he said the opposite. >> and that would be the truth. thank you, susan page. i saved that. you european robinson, it is great to be back. jonathan swan, you're back from aussie land. program note. michael wolff, author of "fire and fury" which they even want in nigeria, everybody wants a copy, inside the trump white house will be our guest here tomorrow night on "hardball." i can bet we'll open the show with him. coming up, the russia investigation goes on. trump keeps saying there is nothing to see there. but talks are under way about a potential interview with the president and special counsel rober robert mueller getting together, i think under oath. plus, after that impassioned speech last night at the golden globes, there are a lot of people seriously talking about oprah winfrey to run for president. and it does make sense. she has the charisma to take on a trump. something the rest of the democratic contenders may be lacking. by the way, they haven't proven any charisma yet. i'll say that. and the "hardball" round table with three big scoops that you'll be talking about tomorrow.
finally, let me finish with trump watch. i'm back. this is "hardball," where the action. with zero dollar copays on select plans and reward points on prescriptions. so no matter where you're going or who you are, it's worth the trip. we'll help you find low cost prescriptions including zero dollar copays on select medicare part d plans. walgreens. trusted since 1901.
in addition to defending his mental state, the president this weekend also announced he was postponing his fake news awards, so-called, originally planned for this evening. tonight the president tweeted the fake news awards, those going to the most corrupt and biased of the mainstream media will be presented to the losers on wednesday, january 17th rather than this coming monday. he said that. and the interest in and importance of these awards is far greater than anyone could have anticipated. unbelievable. we'll be right back.
president denied he is even under investigation and said the probe reflects badly on this country. >> if robert mueller asks you to come and speak with his committee personally, are you committed still to doing that? >> just so you understand, just so you understand, there has been no collusion. there has been no crime. and in theory, everybody tells me i'm not under investigation. we could have done it two ways. well could have been very closed and it would have taken years. but sort of like when you've done nothing wrong, let's be open and get it over with. because honestly it's very, very bad for our country. it's making our country look fullish. >> well, now nbc news is reporting, however, that initial talks are under way for a potential interview between the president and robert mueller's investigators. three people familiar with the matter say the president's legal team is discussing a range of potential option for format, including written responses to questions in lieu of a formal sit-down. but they're also seeking potential compromises that could
avoid an interview altogether according to two of the sources. simply "the washington post" is reporting an interview could come in the next several weeks. the white house declined to comment, only saying it's continuing its full cooperation with the office of special counsel in order to facilitate the earliest possible resolution. i'm joined now by joy ainsley and former independent candidate for president in 2016. and jill wine-banks was an assistant prosecutor during watergate. jill, let me ask you about this. why is the president of the united states unlike bill clinton and people before him, jerry ford had to go before the congress and be interviewed. why d why does he get to set obstacles and conditions? well, i might want it in a written form. i don't want to hear crap about written. you come in and answer my questions. what is the president allowed to do there? can he just say no? >> no man is above the law. so he should be subject to
coming in for an interview. and the written sport ridiculous option. usually when you have written interrogatories, they're answered by lawyers. they deal with specific kinds of facts. the kind of thing like please identify all documents that you have. or give me some data. it wouldn't be asking for what did you do and when did you do it, what did you know and when did you know it. those are things you have to do under oath and in person, not through any other form. and he should not be any different than bill clinton or anybody else who has had to answer questions from a prosecutor. so he should be subject to that. i would look forward to that and think it's an essential step in resolving the full terms of this investigation. >> joy, one of the sense i had coming home from being abroad is this -- it's not hysterical, but this craziness in the white house. something is going on. everybody is pointing fingers at each other. everybody is trying to get out
of the trap of being blamed for something. that because they sense this is getting to somewhere, the fact that mueller now wants to talk to the president? he has heard enough to challenge him with tough questions. like did you get economic help from the russians when you built those hotels? were you getting secret money from them to lander? very direct questions that could be perjurious. >> we know that mueller's team met with president trump's team in late december. and now we hear how they are talking about how they might want to negotiate. they're in preliminary and ongoing discussions about whether and how the president would sit down with mueller's team. and they're trying to avoid that to some extent. >> he is lying. he has something dirty he doesn't want discussed. whoa what are the options he doesn't want to talk? >> think of the client. this is a president who mouths off a lot. he could very easily incriminate himself even if he doesn't have anything to hide. even if there is nothing to
hide, he is someone who could say something that could backfire against a legal strategy. and really, any defense counsel would not want their client to speak to the prosecution. but in this case it's the president of the united states. politically he can't plead the fifth or it looks like he has something huge to hide. >> the reason we all went to school, you don't want a pop quiz when the teacher asks you to your face. i'll do a take-home and look at a book. the fact that he wants it in writing would seem to me he is afraid of a surprise question. >> absolutely. >> he has no idea what they're going to ask him. >> and i think his attorneys are rightly concerned about that. but look, president trump will have to sit down with mueller or with his team. it's a political imperative, especially as we head into 2018. you're right. it's a quiz. it's not a pop quiz, but it's a quiz. if this quiz is failed by the president, then it has serious implications in 2018. the thing, i think he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. thing goes very poorly for him. but if he avoids it, that's also a disaster.
>> let me go back to jill on this. it seems to me, how wide a question can you ask? can you say to a guy in the witness chair who is basically the target of the investigation, how many conversation and when were they, and i want them listed when you talked to anybody about the russians? i want to know in the last year who did you talk to about russians? just russians. just get it all on the paper. all the meetings, all the conversations with the people working for him, whether it's jared, his son-in-law, whoever it is. everything you talk to anybody bad about russia, i want the answer. they do that in court? can they do it in a deposition like this? >> in a deposition you could. in court you would have to be probably a little bit more specific or you'd have relevance options. but right now i would say that any conversation he had with any member of his staff or with any russian directly would be relevant. the one thing i want to go back to something julius said, which is if you have written questions, they can be answered by the lawyer and frequently are
written down by the lawyer. in the case of this one, i'm not sure that's a big advantage to him because right now john dowd, his lawyer, is taking credit for the very incriminating tweet that said that he had fired flynn -- i'm sorry, that he had fired comey because -- i'm sorry. i'm back to flynn that he fired flynn because he had lied to both the vice president and the fbi. which is very incriminating. so i'm not sure he is better off having his lawyers draft the answers. but she is absolutely right that it is very dangerous for him to answer questions because he says whatever comes to his mind. and it could be very incriminating. >> well, trump's lawyers appear to want to minimize the risk involved here, as i said in an interview with their client and the special counsel mueller. however, the president said publicly in june that he would be willing to speak to robert mueller, at least to dispute james comey's testimony. here he goes. >> would you be willing to speak under oath to give your investigation -- >> 100%. >> so if robert mueller wanted
to speak with you than? >> i would be glad to tell him exactly what i just told you. >> in spite he is told he is not under investigation, trump stated on twitter last june, i am being investigated for firing the fbi director. he said that is so ridiculous. he is under investigation. his lawyers are arguing what kind of testimony he is going to give, how he is going give, whether it's in writing or in person. and then he still holds off the fact he is not being investigated. what is going on? >> we can go back and look at the clips. he says he is not being investigated, he is. i don't think there a lot of rhetorical strategy going into these tweets or legal strategy into what's happening here. he wants to say that he is not under investigation, and he may be told that by his legal team because they want him to keep calm and not write more tweets like this. but we know at the heart of any investigation into whether or not trump in the campaign colluded with prussia, i don't have you to talk to the candidate.
>> tell session he can't recuse himself. he wanted to van attorney general who would defend him. he didn't want an attorney general investigating him or helping an investigation. is that obstruction? it seems to be certainly politically it looks like it. >> it just seems like everywhere you look, trump is trying in a different way to block this investigation. he said if sessions was going to recuse himself, i would have -- if i had known that, i would have selected a different attorney general. so that's pretty damning in and of itself. i will say in trump's continued representation of this phrase, "i am not under investigation," he hedged on that on friday. he said in theory i'm not under investigation. i think he is becoming so patently obvious for the reasons julia mentioned that he is part of this investigation, that even he can't get away with saying it anymore. >> evan, didn't you wish you knew this when you were rung against him? >> sure. >> and jill wine-banks. i love reporters these days. reporters are the best. up next, oprah's speech has
calls for her to run for president in 2020. and one guy who talked about her holding national office is donald trump. we'll get to my whose quote from my program. it is acknowledgment that democrats like a proven star, someone with charisma to take on trump? i think that may i be the back story here which they need somebody like her. they haven't found somebody like her, if not her. this is "hardball," where the action. what comes next. if you move your old 401(k) to a fidelity ira, we make sure you're in the loop at every step from the moment you decide to move your money to the instant your new retirement account is funded. ♪ oh and at fidelity, you'll see how all your investments are working together. because when you know where you stand, things are just clearer. ♪ just remember what i said about a little bit o' soul ♪
welcome back to "hardball." seemingly under siege after the release of the scathing new tell-all "fire and fury" by michael wolff, president trump is striking out. this time against a new round of questions surrounding his mental health and fitness. here he is on saturday. >> this morning you were tweeting about your mental state. why did you feel the need to tweet about that this morning? >> only because i went to the best colleges or college. i went to a -- i had a situation where i was a very excellent student, came out, made billions and billions of dollars, became one of the top business people, went to television. and for ten years was a tremendous success, as you probably have heard. ran for president one time and won. >> isn't that the way your mother and father told you not to talk? anyway, it's not the first time the president has felt the need to out the his accomplishments. >> so here i uam, great schools,
great brain, great success. >> i went to an ivy league school. i'm very highly educated. i know words. have i the best words. >> i was a good student. i always hear about the elite, you know, the elite. they're elite. i went to better schools than they did. i was a better student than they were. >> and then they say is donald trump an intellectual? trust me, i'm like a smart person. >> i know words. anyway, with trump's popularity stuck in its usual place, the upper 30s, democrats are looking for a break-out star to take on the president come 2020. last night at the golden globes, oprah winfrey broke through. the media mogul who was being honored for her role promoting strong female characters on and off the screen delivered this powerful speech. >> i want all the girls watch hearing and now to know that a new day is on the horizon! [ applause ]
and when that new day finally dawns, it will be because of a lot of magnificent women, many of whom are right here in this room tonight, and some pretty phenomenal men fighting hard to make sure that they become the leaders who take us to the time when nobody ever has to say me too again. >> almost immediately, twitter lit up with calls for her to run for president. a source close to winfrey, who retired from her daily television show way back in 2011 has told nbc news that she's got no intention of rung. but today her long time partner stedman graham told "the l.a. times," it's up to the people. she would absolutely do it. back in 1999 during a "hardball" college tour, oprah got an early endorsement, albeit from a different job. it came from a potential rival, donald trump.
>> would you consider a woman for your running mate? and if so, who? >> well, i would consider. and as chris can tell you, i threw out the name of a friend of mine who i think the world of. she is great. and some people thought it was an incredible idea. some people didn't. but oprah. i said oprah winfrey, who is really great. and i think we would be a very formidable team. >> well, does oprah have a shot? stay tuned for the hardball round table. we'll talk about her chances of actually running and wing. we'll be right back. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes!
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we danced in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen.man. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree. i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. the big surprise was we're not german at all. 52% of my dna comes from scotland and ireland. so, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com. i don't want to lie down. i refuse to lie down. why suffer? stand up to chronic migraine with botox®. botox® is the only treatment for chronic migraine shown to actually prevent headaches and migraines before they even start. botox® is for adults with chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month each lasting 4 hours or more. it's injected by a doctor once every 12 weeks. and is covered by most insurance. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness
can be signs of a life -threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't take botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. with the botox® savings program, most people with commercial insurance pay nothing out-of-pocket. talk to your doctor and visit botox®cmsavings.com to enroll. welcome back to "hardball." as we mentioned before the break, donald trump has touted oprah winfrey's political prospects way back when, even suggesting her as a possible running mate when i talked to him back in '99. long before that, back in 1988, it was the future media mogul oprah winfrey herself who raised speculation about the celebrity businessman's future ambitions.
here she, i know people have talked to you about whether or not you want to run. would you ever? >> probably not. but i do get tired of seeing the country ripped off. >> why would you not? >> i just don't think i really i have the inclination to do it. i love what i'm doing. i really like it. >> also doesn't pay as well. >> no, it doesn't. >> so is this a matchup we're going to see in 2020? let's bring in the "hardball" round talk tonight. this is not heavy lifting. clarence page and jenna johnson, white house reporter for "the washington post." and david catney. i don't know when stedman graham, her long-time partner said you know, it's up to the people, it sounded to me like he is throwing her hat in the ring. for real. >> i don't know who "the l.a. times" sources were, but they claimed two sources. and i would guess the other one is probably gayle. >> gayle king. >> gayle king, exactly. word has been around for a while that oprah has been interested in this. and she has had political inclinations in the past.
remember, she testified on capitol hill in favor of the child protection act. and she has been quite active on some issues involving south africa where she has a school down there. >> that's right. >> she's had some activism over the years. so she is not totally green to this. >> jenna, go on here. this is something that tells me a lot about our country. it shows we don't have any tall trees running for presidency yet. i think bernie would do well. elizabeth warren would do well. but nobody looks like the person who has closed the field and said there is no opening here. >> people are just rallying behind her today. every time i looked up at the tv, there she was. i mean, in the past 24 hours, we've seen how so many democrats are just eager to find a big personality to get behind. and she is not any big personality. she is someone who can kind of challenge trump on his own turf. >> how so? how would that look if the two of them went on stage together? would she let him stand behind her? i mean -- >> would he try? >> what the hell are you doing,
buddy. >> he can only do that once, i think. >> when he talks about the billions and billions of dollars that he has made, look at the empire that she's built, all on her own. and she was born into poverty. she didn't have parents giving her a million dollar loan or chipping in here and there and things like that. he talks about the success of "the apprentice" that was on air for nearly 12 years. look at her show, on the air for 25 years. and popular in a way that "the apprentice" never, ever was. but the big thing that we saw last night was she got in front of an audience to accept an award. trump would have talked a lot about himself. oprah got up there and she talked about the people who inspired her when she was a kid. she talked about civil rights icons. and she talked about people who she felt like had been kind of left out of the me too. >> i want to be the values here. first of all she is a nice person. i hope that doesn't put somebody down to say they're nice these
days. she is inclusive. it's all about everybody. she is rooting for everybody in trouble. she is always rooting for men and women. mostly women. but i've watched her. the reason we love her is she seems to care about the person watching her on television. she seems to have empathy, which trump doesn't. >> it's the liberal vacuum for anybody that can stand against trump. this is the democratic party that doesn't have an obvious leader. and here is someone who does a killer speech, who has 100% name id, who most people like. i think most people like oprah. what was the most fascinating thing to me today and watching how this unfolded was that people -- serious democrats embraced it. >> i know. >> you had people from the clinton campaign coming out there saying i think she should run. she would be great you. had barack obama's iowa director from 2012 said oprah, call me. i can introduce you to some county chairs in iowa. now it's a little bit of a media creation that gets behind these things. but many people that were out there saying do it. a lot of people said no. the answer is not a celebrity.
serious democrats said look, this is too far. she gave one speech. we need someone that knows issues that has experience. we can't match a celebrity that doesn't know what he is doing with another celebrity that has no experience. >> i wouldn't say she doesn't know what she is doing. >> well, she doesn't have government experience. >> it's the oprah winfrey candidacy got a boost today from one democratic senator, hawaii's macy her rona. >> i love the fact that oprah winfrey, who i really like and really loved her speech last night because it's time to put an end to harassment at all levels. if she wants to join the group of wonderful people oning for democratic presidency, i say great. >> well, that was soft. if she wants to join the other people. that wasn't quite an endorsement. but jonathan allen wrote delivered the kind of inspirational and aspirational message at the golden globes that hillary clinton had trouble hammering home in the 2016
presidential election. you know what i think? the question for me is what is trump going to do right now? is he dopey? i'm not going to ask that. that's the wrong way to put it. is he stupid enough to attack her? or is he smart enough to lay back? >> he won't attack her until he feel likes she say tacking him. you now how he is. >> he gets quiet. >> that's right. what i was reminded of watching oprah's speech is barack obama back at that 2004 convention in boston. you remember that? he lit that place up. democrats at the time were demoralized. they were feeling down in the dumps. they were worried about al sharpton. >> and who came on right after he spoke said you have just seen the first african american president. >> was it me by any chance? >> no more bragging. the crowded trump field in 2020 where she would have run. just as trump did in 2016. one of his vanquished rivals lindsey graham was asked today
the questions surrounding the president's mental stability. let's listen. >> anyway, saturday trump called himself, quote, like, really smart. and a stable genius. so do you think he is, like, really smart and a stable genius? >> i think this. if he doesn't call himself a genius, nobody else will. >> that's his friend talking. what do you make of that? >> i mean, we're sitting here laughing. >> what else are you going to do? >> exactly. >> the lindsey graham who is the local, the most loyal guy right now saying if he doesn't call himself smart, nobody else will. >> i mean, the fact that this has gotten away from the white house in the way that it has, trump latched on to michael wolff's book. a lot of people would have looked away, and he went right for it. and here we are, having this conversation about his mental health. something that we avoided until he went there and started talking about it himself. >> you know why? just a few days ago he was talking about his nuclear button being bigger than the north
koreans. the guy with little hands talking about a big button. that's loony talk, to talk about the potential of nuclear war. i got a bigger button than he does. anyway, the round table is sticking with us. up next three, scoops people will be talking about tomorrow, all three of them. you're watching "hardball." and if that's not enough... we should move. our home team will help you every step of the way. still not enough? it's smaller than i'd like. we'll help you finance your dream home. it's perfect. oh, was this built on an ancient burial ground? okay... then we'll have her cleanse your house of evil spirits. we'll do anything, (spiritual chatter) seriously anything to help you get your home. ally. do it right. to help yhey, need fastme. try cool mint zantac. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster.
you have no jobs. 58% of your youth is unemployed. what the hell do you have to lose? >> well, now donald trump is taking credit for turning things around. this morning he tweeted "african american unemployment is at its lowest ever record in our country's history. the hispanic unemployment rate dropped a full point in the last year and it's close to the lowest in recorded history. dems did nothing for you but get your vote. #neverforget." while it is true it has dropped to a record low of 6.8%, that number also fell steadily under president obama. it peaked at nearly 17% during the -- actually after the financial crisis. but by the time obama left office, it had dropped more than half, down to 7.8. obama deserves a lot of credit. we'll be right back. due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but no matter where i ride, i go for my best. so if there's something better than warfarin,
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which means everyone has access to our real reviews that we actually verify. and we can also verify that what goes down, [ splash, toilet flush ] doesn't always come back up. find a great plumber at angie's list. join today for free. find a great plumber at angie's list. yea, s#stuffynoset this cold #nosleep i got it... #mouthbreather yep, we've got a mouth breather. well just put on a breathe right strip and... pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than cold medicine alone so you can breathe... ...and sleep. go to breatheright.com today to request a free sample. we're back with the "hardball" round table. starting off is clarence. tell me something i don't know. >> you remember dwayne "the
rock" johnson. >> of course. he was there last night. >> well, people were talking about how what happened to his campaign. he looked around, saw that his booked up for movie production up into 2021. now he says he is looking at 2024. along with kanye west. the way is now clear for hollywood picking. >> upon this rock we will build our hopes. there you go. >> months ago, vice president pence's team started planning this big trip to the middle east. then the president made his big jerusalem decision. the trip was postponed. it was postponed again. it was delayed. it was postponed a little bit more. as of today, they finally have dates on the calendar. >> how did they get around the christian groups that didn't want him to go? >> they're not meeting with them. he is going to go to egypt first is going to be the first stop on january 20th and then to jordan, which is a new stop that wasn't on the original schedule. two days in israel, and then back to the united states. >> okay. go ahead, david. >> another house republican
retirement today. hanging a it up. >> why are they quitting? >> they see a blue wave coming. there are new 30 house republicans that are retiring or resigning, not choosing to run in their seats next year. democrats need only 24 pickups to win. you now have a real scenario. operatives on both sides think you could have a democratic house still have divided government. >> david, if they get the house, they get subpoena power, impeachment starts a year from now, right now. the clarence page, thank you, jenna johnson and david cantonese. when we return, i got one. i like it. hope you do too. you're watching "hardball."
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massacre. that's what made us different, really different. we were going to be the kind of country where even soldiers were going get the protections of law because we wanted those protections for ourselves. we wanted everyone to honor the law. think of george washington, who after serving two terms as president could easily have ruled this country like a dictator, who gave up all the trappings of office and went back to virginia. this is not some place where a guy who fightser for independence was going get the chance to become ruler for life and grab it. we're going to be a country where power, even out of our popular hero, was going to be limited. think of our free press, of people like thomas payne who wrote a pamphlet called "common sense" who demanded this country have independence. and more than that, we were going to be the kind of independent country as thomas jefferson advised where people if having to choose would demand a free press over any kind of government trying to deny one. these are the american principles which are now under stress, of course. more than, that the world is watching us. less than a year ago, we were the country the world looked up
walk again it'll soon be time for another head. and he wants to upgrade the new one . from behind him all the things you could do with a hit like that of course by a monitoring would be no problem the bladder neural impulses provide a lot of information and then of course the little gimmicks like a mobile wife i rusa or i could have a smart phone in my pocket next to the artificial hip and it will get charged when i move or from the heat of my blood or i just don't have something healthy removed just now of course not nothing's as good as the original you know i think would you think it cool if i only had a wife i wrote on his hip. a wireless router for a wife i wherever i happen to be cool. i wouldn't be the rain god you'd be the wife i god but you are that already. i don't know nobody would believe me.
how do people get such ideas. as i do think when i met their family for as long as i've known him he's wanted to be connected to the internet through a little device on his neck like in science fiction as well as a didn't get that he's had this idea ever since i've known him anything that's possible that would upgrade his body he would do it immediately. but as a thought. when. received his three artificial joints you société the surgeries with pain and feeling old. it would be different if they built in a wireless charger for his smartphone he says. but german law it does not permit implants with supplementary functions so and has been in direct contact with manufacturers for months. in germany an implant is just an implant you don't play with it because it's the current view that's what we want to
change we want to reach the people who make these decisions who can also say wait a minute there's a gap that needs to be filled you need to get your foot in the door and if manufacturers don't respond others will. at some time in the future will artificial spare parts be able to do more than the originals this question obsesses data of my own he was born without the lower half of his left arm and wears a prosthetic hand probably the best that's currently available. as i'm concerned. basically the prosthetic hand can't do anything more than my right hand can do with one exception i can twist the process to three hundred sixty degree this is continuously but it's not very practical i always say it's my party
trick. but it's also very interesting theoretically because of course it shows that even a first static name which in many ways is not as good as the original can be better in other areas in very specific abilities but they. i said. maya is a social psychologist at the technical university in kenya he's been studying this desire some people have for artificial bodyparts even though they're perfectly healthy. i do find it a bit strange when people say in theory i'm ready to replace the healthy body part with an artificial one because it would make me somehow better of it. i think well frankly being one hundred percent healthy is a privilege that i don't have. on so i think perhaps you should be a bit more aware of what a privilege that is that you enjoy us from cleveland it does this west with. humans
are weak. and forgetful technology is supposed to liberate them from nature's limitations but why take tools in your hands when you can carry them inside yourself. is this the next logical step to upgrade humans to become stronger faster more perfect. this is the end of human weakness. or the beginning of the end of humanity. how many dreams of overcoming the limitations of his body with technology. as a small step in this direction he inserts micro implants in his body. december twenty ten at the chaos communication congress left an unnamed gave
a lecture titled cybernetics for the masses explained how you can perform your own implantations at very little cost. part a lecture mentioned magnet implants. and r.f. idea. what i became very curious about how magnetic and electromagnetic field would feel. then i decided to do it. magnet implants don't have much use at the present time they vibrate patrick palin's hand for instance when he drives under electric power lines but a comment you factor is researching whether drivers could be sent signals via magnetic vibrations for instance in a dangerous situation. react to tactile feelings more quickly than any other sensory data. patrick powerman lives in
here on the german border he now has five magnets and six chips in his body each chip has its own function. vantages that i can never lose my keys or have them stolen from me i can never locked myself out. makes life easier for my hands are full i don't have to dig into my trouser pockets to find my keys or look to see which key i need for the door. with another chip how men can log into his computer. the chips operate with the technology known as r f i d radio frequency identification it allows data to be transmitted over a short distance without a battery. has already ordered another chip the manufacturer says it will eventually include more and more apps which will allow it to do things like send
encrypted email and make payments. we've already come up with the idea of making eyeglasses lasering developing hearing implants. we're constantly progressing with the aim of making life easier. i only see advantages. cyborgs are viewed as eccentrics but the industry believes this will change neil harvey is often invited to talk to telecommunications companies. thank him for. drawing some. of the skin in the air the first one i did was of prince charles i
asked him if i could listen to his face and his reaction when i asked him i. had hair for example. different shades of. rights has a melody in his eyes because he has not like a small pattern. mommy has one note last he has no hair so he has less sounds. like a stuffed painting very unsaturated. neil harbison makes a good living from his lectures his cyborg existence is it just clever self promotion or is he really a social pioneer. yang twenty thirty years i think it will be strange. not to have an implant of some sort in the same way that now it's very common to see both of those will be fifty years it will be really strange knowledge of a very common to modify our skin it will soon be very common to modify our minds
and. you want to. force cyborgs the implantation process poses a practical problem doctors are not permitted to perform non-medical surgery that's where he comes in the piercer turns humans into cyborgs. today it's lucy a turn. she wants to have a magnet implanted in her hand. still quite annoyed. part thank you yesterday but mainly for professional reasons it's been a dressmaker and i don't like paying coaches that's not a kiss and. so a small magnet here on my hand will be very useful to a lot of. undergoing a procedure like this for such a trifling reason is surprising but he isn't bound by the restrictions that apply
to doctors and doesn't ask too many questions. it's a grey area so it's ok as long as the patient signs a contract that she bears all the risks. and implanting magnets carries considerable risk. i have sometimes seen magnets for less reliable firms corrode in the body. make a road right out of their casing or else they triggered allergic reactions that. there's no way of knowing how the body will react to magnets it can reject them nerves can be damaged. some of the people. it's quite uncomfortable. but. the procedure costs roughly one hundred fifty euros and takes about ten minutes.
it feels like a pulling sensation it's pretty strong and. most people would never dream of implanting magnets or chips in their bodies but keep you know believes that will change. that there are now chips in the beta phase that have more functionality. and i can see that in two five maybe ten years even more useful implants will be invented. yeah. something like this are cadia a device that registers heart rate and other physical data. but in a much smaller format. is as big as a smartphone tin can and from the us had it implanted in his arm in twenty thirteen
everybody my name is jim cameron i just became the first man to lead the device in my body. for the purpose of an answer myself and. can continuously monitor body temperature and heart rate and transmit the data to a smartphone. how many is also interested in this implant. because i've met him he didn't have the implant any longer but from what i see on the video it's quite big. it looks creepy and it was dangerous the batteries could have leaked that's why tin can and had it removed after three months but he wanted to show what's possible. similar in france are available on a smaller scale. i have an implant in my lower arm which measures my body temperature and there's a temperature sensor inside. and i have an r f i d device that reads the
champ. over the. front of the displays the serial number on the temperature in my lower. unlike the monitors or activity trackers these chips gather the data continuously without you having to think about them. one day robots can circulate in our blood stream and analyze everything what's good for us when. stressed we could continuously monitor our health and the tech diseases even before they become apparent. but do we want bones the total surveillance of our bodies. as we come and is still waiting for the new chip he ordered the one that will allow
him to encrypt data in the meantime he wants to tweak the chips he already has for that he's going to hack space a meeting point for technology freaks in here learn how men founded it himself. at the drinks machine he only has to scan his chip and it transmits his data. how many of his friends want to get more and more out of each device. i want to lock and unlock my car without using a cable if you accidentally feed current into this white wire you break the device on this could go wrong because conditions can. palin has to hack the switch of his central lock system so it can read his chip which he tinkers with the device for five hours.
eventually he succeeds. the central locking system can now read his chip. now it has to be installed in the car. it's locked. up. great now i can throw away the case for. once again powerman has made his life a little easier now he just has to wait for the chip he orders from the last. berlin is fighting for his cyborg hip so far the implant manufacturers have given him the
cold shoulder he's decided to seek the support of his orthopedist peter hunter. with the dr agreed to implant an artificial hip equipped with a motion activated device to charge a mobile phone or one containing a mobile wife i router. has a very dark was ok so in the all the sockets of the hid there would be space for a little gimmick. certainly that it could easily be built into an artificial joerg you just have to watch out for the radiation exposure of course that's an ethical issue right that's. five in the office as it's natural laws and ethics play a role but we're not just playing around if somebody is going to have an operation like this they can think about whether it could be upgraded
a bit. of course. the radiation exposure could become a problem because the radiation would have to pass through all layers of the skin the implications of that haven't been studied yet but the doctor believes in the future of these implants. he turns it off i'm very open to ideas like this if i don't want to be in favor certainly from the medical point of view that it sooner should also when it's really useful to the person is nuts not for the ten but if your mother. is most physicians are very skeptical of the idea of cyborgs it's the first time vakeel consent has received support from a doctor but where does the compulsion come from to do such a radical thing. and i mean come on that statement so for for gripping your body with technology is a way of making it more efficient and appearing more efficient and perhaps of increasing your own value a bit. is all that in my own disability has certainly had an impact on my own
self-esteem carries and i know the feeling that a bit of complicated technology can increase your sense of self-worth. so it's to be had for lying. in this future humans will be able to redesign their own bodies what will it be like when we all know everything about each other immediately when tiny robots inside us monitor our blood and when the distinction between online and offline has blurred. a brave new world will it be like when humans first invented tools and life became easier or will it become a competition for the best in the land and what about people who refuse such implants will this produce another divide like the one between rich and poor privileged and the disadvantaged. in sweden the idea of sideboards is more commonplace. enterprise is holding an employer.
taishan party. the guest list includes many from stockholm's creative scene. they can upgrade their bodies at the party or with. the blood the founder of a bio hacker group came up with the idea. bio hackers refuse to accept biology and the limitations of nature. they want to upgrade their bodies with technology. today so your blood is promoting r f i d chips the same chipset patrick pound carries in his body. i mean it works like this when you're most we are skeptical about things we don't really understand right but if you explain how it works without a good things what about things what are the dangers when then most people are simply comfortable with it so this is what i tried to do i'm not in the business of
selling implants i just like to share the insights i have. getting a chip implanted in sweden costs about the same as in germany around one hundred twenty euros. the chips are made of bio glass so that the body doesn't reject them and if the size of a grain of rice held right you'll feel it is one of the first who wants to give them a try. very much nervous that i'm washing. it's not worth being given birth so i'm thinking my thoughts i'm trying everything once you only live once the lot of. them i take out tomorrow no for the love of the spirit. of the. five seconds later hello young is chipped to hopefully i can open my door with that i have to call the insurance company and there are the people delivering the door and see if i can open that with. a large number of people who get chips implanted don't know exactly what to do with
a company representative explains how they can save passwords for their. business cards on the chips and transmit them to a smartphone with a wave of the hand in theory the data could easily get into the wrong hands still many believe that a good chunk of the population will soon have implants to oversell within five years. with the early adopters early out of garbage technology and it may be upcoming generation it's all they're all born with an i pad and i fall under the same thing big i mean my son is six years old. is due in june or programming on a psychedelic kindergarten so. stockholm's public transport company is even considering letting passengers pay for their tickets with implanted chips. helen a younger that who just received her first chip thinks that's
a great idea. i lose my things all the time i lose my passport balance manning a bus card my bus my card to the gym if everything to be on face that will be amazing and i hope i hope that will come during next six months but main branch shouldn't be too optimistic. but i guess i will be have be more free from. elsewhere in stockholm ships are already commonplace the epicenter is a large modern office complex in the central business district there are dozens of startups here. as a matter of course workers open the doors with chip implants. it was hunted idea he was housed at the implantation party and he's the building's
innovative spirit. i want to question the status quo and yes we've had peace in our pockets all our lives right we're used to it but someone has to say we don't need it someone needs to see what is possible to do tomorrow. so far workers have been able to choose the question of course is whether they will still be able to do so in future. i just want to have a community of smart people we learn how this works because if the day comes when a big company launches. the implant or the swedish tax authority excess we would go to chip everyone then we would have a group of people who understand this technology and can challenge the uses that they were torah he wants this technology to have on us so for me this is so important with the democrat decision of technology it's not just to learn how to use the technology it's more important to understand how it's being used against
you. what if the data on the chips was accessed by strangers the orwellian dystopia the big brother would no longer be fiction. chips could create the transparent citizen. back ups from the chaos computer club believes that the business world and intelligence services would be very interested in this data for the. course they're very interested in the idea of being able to register people simply as they passed by without having to use face recognition or similar techniques to be able to say that was so and so we just walked by there and that to generate personality profiles or movement patterns at the end of the day these technologies can all be used against us. in berlin he cookie cannot has an appointment with
a regular client arena dubois doesn't just want passive chips and magnets in her body but bigger implants that need batteries and we're going to be one of the first people because they said they're going to make a trial for the first two thousand people who preordered oh yeah i guess you will be one of the for. the parthenon the first one in germany. yes she wants the north sense a kind of compass the implant is supposed to vibrate whenever she faces north. this is not a device of attachment. this is technology that evolves with. time . you turn to the memory. big promises that are weak in great expectations. of exciting the course of time. you will be just so you know you walk. or you know you have
a feeling i'll have to go out there getting the north and completely transform my perception of travels of discovering cities of maybe i will still get lost but i will kind of know which direction i'm going in that can really that changes my perception. doesn't just want more implants she'd even replace some body parts i have a hard for ever sure. i guess if if we get to the point where we can exchange body parts then eventually i will have to exchange all of them because they naturally die. could humans eventually upgrade themselves for immortality. a political scientist at the current school institute of technology is researching how cyborg technologies are influencing our society. if we assume that society remains roughly as it is i'm very pessimistic that the
so-called refuseniks people who reject these developments can keep resisting. as a simple example i remember people discussed the importance of participating fully in society without using the internet. of course you can refuse to use the internet today but i think it would be difficult even to study without it. the german constitution states that human dignity is inviolable. when the boundary between man and machine is blurred what is it that will make us human will human dignity ultimately depend on what upgrades we can afford. this brave new world will bring us greater control we will be able to prevent disease put a brake on physical decay but this freedom will require new ethical guidelines and new social morse. things are not looking
good for only. and his side were kept. he hasn't been able to win over the manufacturers so today he's talking to the pirates society where he's a member of the board. pirate focuses on political education and its members have good contacts among politicians and academics. and hopes to get their support. to live off point i'll be grateful for ideas and support from your connections to find other manufacturers as well whether in europe or elsewhere . and for us to say come on guys let's try something like this you know for. i don't understand why you want to reach the manufacturers like us they have so you can explain because i think the first thing you need to do the first people you need to talk to are the guys involved in medical ethics and they are not the
manufacturers has to listen to off the. bus not really if you don't have another issue of course is the legal aspect that you will also not just the ethics expert the lawyers that's an incredibly important target group but he does have to get them to think about where the boundaries lie. i think he missed my. you should really be having this discussion with doctors technology and ethical ex-pats not just for a matinee but an entire workshop is my induction so i think that way we could trigger a public debate we would suppose i said this from the start it's our issue our new big issue. turned out great thank you for your reactions cool it's really important to me when i'm here and i'm really pleased with the feedback jarosz for you what of. that is still optimistic. for me if i mean will decide i hope society will take no notice of cyborg as
a whole and that it spreads so that people overcome their fear of failure and is a legitimate fear look that other guy is trying to improve himself with technology and he's doing it and has the advantage over me before that it's indisputable that it's an issue with cyborgs of it and we need to work on it and demand that society creates the conditions in which the two can co-exist and in the best case scenario cooperate. putney powerman has been waiting for this day for months he's come to berlin with a prototype of the american data encrypting chip in his luggage. but i'm very excited i haven't been able to test it yet i hope everything works out . of
a couple of us. how many wants to get the implant done in he hopes piercing studio . hi i brought the new implant home. but it arrived yesterday. perfect timing. they don't yet know if the chip works. when it was tested recently on another volunteer it immediately broke. it off so this is it will be my first time well it's quite long isn't it. but relatively flat. i do want to test it first if it's able to read or we will see. that means no. sorry communication was interrupted.
that's all now it's reading. yeah it's been recognized as and experienced smart m.c.h. if. so it's all systems go. the prototype chip is exceptionally large. it can't be injected under the skin like most of the other chips polman has. what implants do you have now moved to the n.f.c. chip i can't remember the number of fans one and one twenty five or if i did. that for months once i got. through the procedure takes forty five minutes then powerman has the twelve implant in his body.
so so it didn't. last it's an. for power the chip is mainly a status symbol. guess time around but it's a prototype. it's not on the market yet and i'm one of the beater tasker's. a manufacturer asked me if i could test it. sure. patrick how men can now encrypt data with a chip and eventually perhaps even make payments with it it certainly won't be his last implant. new harbison also has plans. he wants to receive an implant that is entirely new.
creating an organ that will be circular within the skin in the bone and it will give heat depending on what they were it is so it would take twenty four hours for the heat to go around the head so i'll know what time it is by just feeling the heat around the head. but if i have this for several months or years it should become my perception of time so that we will get control of my one time to go faster or slower if i make the hit go slower feel that time go slower or if i want them to go faster you can program it so it goes faster if i make it go twice or the back or thirds they're going to use those theory of relativity into a sense into an organ to see whether or not you can control your perception of time we have an organ for time. it's doubtful whether we humans can manipulate our sense of time like that but what's certain is that cyborg technologies will
transform our society. imagine two persons meeting in the future. the interaction be like so possibly let's say we have a implant acknowledging that the dogs different process that is going on in the body so i want to stress someone is happy someone is angry if someone is in love and imagine the ability to share this information directly inside someone else i think this would create a greater understanding between people and a greater understanding for what another person is feeling and going through and i hope that this will make us more ethical persons if we have a greater understanding for each other this distinctive it's really important not to leave the debate about the social impact of technology to technologists engineers and economists it's really important to start a public debate about what lies ahead what's conceivable and what effect it could have on our society and that's. one of the limits of
technology and of ethics. it is these boundaries we are only beginning to explore. top and soft. realms and about. down again. we take you to europe's most famous no boundary just. this one tops them all your highest peaks most low because the winter is at its best right she is going to the mounds of fall series this week if you're a woman stood for thirty minutes to double shifts. happy
birthday in good shape return intending smear and you can leave this school and main fitness backpack and if you want to know what's inside it's visit all women who are supposed to turn in the most favorite holmgren's until like some coffee may be told that she has to do so because she looks. plain. and while. ventura of china. the trip by airplane seventeen thousand kilometers in six weeks and breathtaking and scrapes and run for get a straight answer her touchstone for seventeen years through canada starting february twenty seventh going to.
by now that the department of justice is not going to be extorted. doctor's note. the president's former long time personal physician admits what many suspected at the time, the glowing medical report he issued during the campaign was dictated by his patient, donald j. trump. >> that letter that showed up about his health rgs he wrote it: state visit. president trump making his first trip to the state department to swear in his top diplomat, mike pompeo. >> i've absolute confidence he will do an incredible job as the nation's 70th secretary of state. good day. president trump is reacting to a strange of headlines about robert mueller's tense negotiations with the president's legal team and the deputy attorney general overseeing the russia investigation.
tweeting the probe is a rigged system and then threatening that at some point i will have no choice but to use the powers granted to the presidency and get involved. that's a clear response to rod rosenstein's unambiguous push back against house republicans interfe interference. a march 5th meeting where robert mueller said he could subpoena the president. according to the post, two witnesses say the president's then lawyer replied, this isn't some game. you're screwing with the work of the presidency of the united states. joining me now nbc justice correspondent pete williams, nbc national correspondent, peter alexander. former u.s. attorney and fbi official. we have a full house. let's start with you and the president on twitter today clearly new threats.
new warnings to the justice department, to robert mule r and specifically to the man in charge who was rod rosenstein. >> i think that's right. we have seen this sort of twitter tirade from the president in the past but this is a unique one we're witnessing today. the bottom line is the president is suggesting that the real investigation should be focused on his former opponent, of now approaching two years ago, hillary clinton. he indicates there's no wrong doing so nothing to be uncovered. in a series of those tweets he say it's a stet up and trap. this gets to the new reporting that came out overnight about the fact that more than six weeks ago there was this conversation between robert mueller and one of the president's attorneys, part of his team focusing on this idea that if the president would refuse to sit down for an interview, mueller may have to subpoena him. recognize this was before rudy giuliani had joined the
scope of some of the questions that list of 49 questions that came out in the new york times the other day and the president's tweet this morning seems to have been inspired by efforts by some house conser conservatives including mark ma meadows, to get a particular document from the justice department, a memo that would out line what the mueller probe is after. who are some of the targets of that investigation. it angered those on congress and seems to be the inspiration for some of the president's backlash this morning. >> for the reporting as well from the post, i believe there were actually a draft of an impeachment procedure against rod rosenstein. rosenstein is in charge of the parameters of the mueller probe since jeff sessions is recused. pete williams, the significance of all of this and the
possibility of a subpoena for the president. >> well, the possibility of a subpoena for the president, of course, this would take us into legal territory where we've not been before. presidents jefferson and nixon were subpoenaed for documents and tapes. president clinton was subpoenaed for his testimony but he decided to do it voluntarily. if they do subpoena the president and he says no, i'm not going to do it. i'm going to assert my fifth amendment impressive leprivileg us into a territory where the courts have not been before and the white house has to make a political calculation where they plead the fifth which is often associated with organized crime figures. do they want to go there or will they assert the president has executive privilege and doesn't have to answer these questions. we don't know the answer ultimately. the courts have always suggested that presidents have to give evidence in criminal cases but
constitutional fight. the justice department says we investigate crimes. there is a separation of power. you do your thing, we'll do ours. >> rod rosenstein really pushed back hard yesterday. let's play a bit of that the question he was asked and his answer. >> any reaction to the news that certain members of the house freedom caucus have talked about drafting up articles of impeachment despite your best ef efforts to comply with document requests? >> they can't even resist leaking their own drafts. the department of justice will not be extorted. we're going to do what's required by the rule of law. any kind of threats that anybody makes are not going to affect the way we do our job. >> chuck, as a former u.s. assistant attorney and fbi official, rod rosenstein's answer. >> i'm glad to see him doing that. i've had my criticisms of rod, someone i've worked with.
someone i know. i like him. it's nice to see him standing up for the department, the institution. there is a separation of powers that must be maintained. some of what the department of justice does under rod rosenstein conducts some of our very most sensitive investigation, political corruption, counter corruption. that needs to remain confidential. >> he's not always been an enemy of the president. this is sarah sanders last may praising him. >> somebody like the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who everybody across the board has unequivocally said this guy is man of up standing character and the gold standard that the department of justice. i think there's complete confidence in him and another reason for director comey to be out of way so they can have somebody leading this effort that everybody across the board
there was a filing by mike flynn's lawyers to extend the sentencing for another 60 days. he's still cooperating. >> both sides say they have a lot of work to do and they need more time. they didn't really explain it. they want to keep that channel open. it's much harder to do it after he's sentenced. i should just say on these documents that congress wants, there's two things they want. they want stuff about the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and i think one of the things that making it harder for the justice department to say no is something that james comey did after shutting down in july the hillary clinton e-mail investigation where he sent stuff that normally the fbi doesn't share with congress. the records of interviews of people. the so called 302s and some internal documents about it. the justice department kind of is asking for this themselves
because they open the door a little bit on that. on the second thing they're asking for which is documents about mueller investigation, that really is the crown jewels of what the justice department does. that's an ongoing criminal investigation and i can't think of case where doj has ever turned over sort of operational memos in the middle of an investigation. >> pete williams, chuck rosenburg, peter alexander thank you so much for starting us off. we have breaking news. a southwest airline flights on its way from newark to chicago had to make an emergency landing because of a cracked window. these pictures appear to show the damage in question. the plane has been taken out of service. no injuries are reported. we don't know if this is a 737 but it comes two weeks after a woman was killed on a separate southwest flight when an engine
failure completely broke the window and partially sucking her out of plane. we're following another breaking story from savannah, georgia. a military cargo plane has just cra crashed. the plane went down shortly after take off. taking off from the savannah hilton head savannah airport. no word on how many people were on board. we'll bring you more details. secretary of swagger. mike pompeo wants to help the state department get its groove back but will his approach work? we'll talk to a democratic senator who has opposed his nomination. i'm not a bigwig. or a c-anything-o. but i've got an idea sir. get domo. it'll connect us to everything that's going on in the company. get it for jean who's always cold. for the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. give us the data we need. in one place, anywhere we need it. help us do our jobs better. with domo we can run this place together.
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president. it's only about a mile away from the white house. that certainly, today signifies the closeness of this president and mike pompeo compared to rex tillerson. will it make a difference? >> we'll have to see. i hope the state department gets its swagger back because we need diplomacy front and center. we should work hard to resolve con flicks without having to use military force and resolve them diplomatically whether ever possible. what worries me about secretary pompeo is his whole record up till now has been much more of a shoot first, ask questions later approach which is the opposite of what we ask our diplomats to do. we have big decisions coming up with respect to iran where i'm worried about the position this administration is going to take. >> they've signalled that they are going to break away or come
up with some compromise where they waive -- they stop waiving the sangs bctions. it's small but likelihood next week some time before may 12th they'll break out of deal. their argument is like net yanyu said in the past, they cheated their program. they can restart any time they want and bad actors in the region. >> there's in doubt the iranians have been bad actors but we know the information revealed by netanyahu the other day was nothing new in substance. there was more detail but we have known for a long time that up until 2004, early 2004, i ran had a secret nuclear weapons
program. pompeo confirmed that ended in early 2004. during his confirmation he indicated he had zero evidence that iran was in violation of the iran nuclear agreement. it's to prevent iran from getting a nuclear weapon. they had that program. they stopped it. we want to make sure they don't proceed down their path. that's the whole purpose of the agreement. an agreement which they are abiding by as we speak. >> i want to ask you about statement that the white house issued the other night and it was that it was the same day that netanyahu made his very theatrical presentation. iran has a robust, clandestine nuclear weapons program. this is something that was known until 2007.
it was declassified then and the white house and all the other intelligence agencies knowled acknowledged that. it was stopped at that point. this was clearly a misstatement. i called it out as soon as it came out and they waited an hour and a half. sarah sanders said yesterday they quick lly corrected the record. they have not corrected it bauds they d -- because they did not issue a statement. they fixed the website. do you think this was a clerical error or something more involved where they were trying to muddy the waters and suggest that iran still has a nuclear program? >> i don't know for sure. my first reaction when i saw that was here we go again. we remember in the lead up to the iraq war there was all this misinformation coming out about how saddam hussein was marching toward getting weapons of mass
destruction and back in september 2002, netanyahu testified before the congress that iraq was poised to get a nuclear weapon and that we needed to take him out. yes, for a moment there it looked like all these things were happening again and with netanyahu's state the other day, clearly designed to try to undermine the continuity of the iran nuclear agreement, it's looking like here we go again and just recently even though they corrected the clerical error, the administration is clearly latching onto the release of information which we already knew in substance to justify pulling the plug on the iran nuclear agreement which will e limb -- eliminate the agreement that will give a green
light to iran. it makes no sense at all. >> do you think this is case where the white house press office puts out a statement of such import and impact without it being cleared by the national security council or is this a deliberate attempt to mislead the american people and the world. >> well, there's no way of knowing for sure at this point in time. what we do know is that even today in the last 24 hours, for example, the administration is trying to use this information that was known to the united states and our allies for a very long time. that at one point in time iran was embarked on a nuclear weapons program. what they are not focusing on is the fact that we've already found that the iranians ended that weapons program by early 2004 and again the whole purpose of the iran nuclear agreement is to recognize the iranians may
try to get a nuclear weapon. we want to cut off all their paths to getting that and we will have in place a very strong verification regime. you get rid of the grem, you go blind right away. they can pick out a lot of inspectors and resume enriching at much higher levels. to get rid of agreement that is putting the brakes on and which gives us lead time in the event they do cheat at some point, it's bad for our security. it's bad for the security of our allies. i don't know what the president is thinking unless he wants to do at what pompeo said he wanted to do was go bomb iran. that's something mike pom ppeo said years ago which is why i'm worried about him at the state department reenforcing some of president trump's worst instincts. >> thank you very much. thanks for being with us today. >> thank you.
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a new twist in the saga of president trump's former long time personal physician dr. harold bornstein to told news nbc that his office was quote raid bid ted by the presi personal body guard and lawyer. they took the records. now bornstein is dishing new information about his former patient and that unusual doctor's note released describing the president as in the best health of anyone to ever be lelected to the presidency. >> some of them with have to admit that names are changed on them to weird names that he made up. i will also tell you that letter that show eed up in times about his health, he wrote himself. you know that.
>> yeah. >> he wrote it himself. me, from where i come from, tend of it was black humor. it wasn't meant to be a serious comment. i guess people don't have that sense of humor. i get it. >> joining me now is dr. john torrez and nbc news investigative producer. thank you both. let me ask about any vulnerability that dr. bornstein has in talking about his patient's records publicly. the medication that he was using for hair growth. any of those patient-doctor confidential statements. >> as a doctor that's a huge violation of patient confidential and illegal violation as well. we have hipaa that protects
patients. if you didn't have permission to specifically tell people about that specific medication in that format then that's a big violation of that. that violation does come with fines and even jail time. just not something that physicians should be doing. >> when you interviewed him, he was on camera he said to you, i didn't do anything wrong. who would care about a hair growth medication. he doesn't seem to understand that distinction, which was just played out. >> he said he thought since the election was already over that it didn't matter. he said millions of men across america take this drug. it's not a big deal. i think he feels hurt that after he made those statements to a reporter that trump cut him off. >> why do you think he's speaking out now? it's been just about a years since this incident took place where the director of operations in the oval office, former long
time body guard, no longer with the white house but was such a close aide to the president. he and a lawyer for the trump organization showed up at the office and one other individual. >> well, he was seeing the news reports. ronnie jackson was all over the news. the former white house doctor. i think he felt a little bit left out. he would have liked that job and he felt spurned and seeing dr. jackson getting a lot of attention and i think he felt it was time to speak about it. he said he wishes he contacted the police and the fbi at the time that the medical records were taken. it felt like a burglary to him. >> well, thank you very much. we do have some breaking news on the legal front. the president's legal team, michael schmit is joining us. >> the president's lawyer inside
the white house who has been dealing with the special counsel's investigation is going to retire. the president is going to hire emmett flood, a long time washington longer who represented bill clinton during impeachment and worked in the george w. bush white house represented vice president chaney. mr. flood is expected to take a more adversarial approach to the mueller probe. he wanted the president to sit down for an interview. here we are in may of 2018, the year after mueller was appointed and the president will be going with a new lawyer inside the white house to deal with it. >> does this slow down any negotiations on conversations with the mueller team since it's a new cast of characters? i know these lawyers know each other and have worked with each other or against each other in previous cases, but it is
started over. >> i think that it's our understanding that cobb will remain on for several weeks and i'm not sure that this really changes much. the president has personal lawyers who are dealing with the interview question, wcobb had a an advocate of doing the interview. there's been an increasing interview whether after they got the questions that mueller wanted to ask or after the cohen raid that an interview is a bad idea. i'm not sure how much it will change on that front. cobb had been in charge of the document production to mueller. he had pushed out and said we should not exert privilege on any of these. we have nothing to hide. a lot of that work is done but the president will still need a lawyer to deal with all of these questions about the russia matter. >> of course, front and center right now is the whole issue that you first exposed in the new york times with the 49
issues or subject areas that led to questions that were written from notes as to what the mueller people wanted to ask the president about. another former lawyer then representing the president. there's been a continuous resolving door almost on the president's legal team. we have rudy giuliani in now and now you're bringing in an experienced washington attorney replacing ty cobb. you point out it's likely to become more confrontational. you think it makes it less likely the president would agree to an interview? >> yeah. i think so. it's still not really clear. the president you have to remember wants to do the interview. the president thinks he can explain to mueller all of these different things. it's the president's lawyers that are concerned about it.
the president believes he's his best spokesman. believes he can make an articulate argument about why there was nothing wrong with the comey firing or his relationship with jeff sessions. it's the lawyers that are concerned. out of those 49 questions that be president's legal team compiled after their meeting with mueller, two-thirds of them are about obstruction. they are about things that have gone on since the president was in office. there's some conclusion questions but it's largely dominated by obstruction. >> the president has been tweeting in the last 24 hours about all of this and also with implied threats against the probe, against rod rosenstein, against every one involved. also suggesting that collusion was not part of it. collusion is certainly part of those 49 subject areas that were
laid out in your story. >> the other thing about the president's tweets is when we wrote in march that he was considering hiring flood he attacked us and said we made that up and he attacked my colleague who i worked on the story with. now here he is going forward with that. another example of him saying we fabricated things that turn out to be true. >> flood, as we're pointing out, cli clerk for justice ska lcalia. also bill clinton during impeachment proceedings. >> he also was one of the lead lawyers in the bush white house counsel office in the last two years when the democrats had control of congress and investigating all different parts of administration. he dealt with a lot of those oversight issues. take the lead on the u.s.
attorney's firing scandal. the president could find himself in a similar situation if they lose control of the house and or the senate later this year. if the democrats have control, there will be many, many investigations that the democrats will try to do into the way the administration has functioned so far. >> well, thank you very much. stay with us. i want to bring in fellow new york times reporter jeremy peters and washington post colu columnist. we're happy to announce that ruth marcus has joined the msnbc family. she's already a regular on many of our programs especially ours. welcome. >> thank you. >> it's a new role. we're thrilled. >> thanks for your help in all of that. >> it's great day to have your expertise. harvard lawyer here onset. i defer to you. the significance of ty cobb's quote retirement. it seems like a significant time for someone to retire who's been
involved in the most significant case of his high profile career. >> when you have a very big case, what you don't want to do is have a constantly shifting stable of lawyers. there's a lot of factual catch up to get to. not just creating a relationship of strus and reliance and possibly listening to you with your client. also to just know the facts of the case and have relationships with the other lawyers in the case. it is good to have somebody there who has some expertise in high profile, political investigations. it's kind of too bad if the president's point of view. i think we should all want the president to have good capable counsel here no matter what we think of him. it's too bad he can't seem to keep a lawyer. >> this is a white house staff position. >> yes. >> according to this statement from the white house to the
white house reporters, he, for several weeks has been discussing his retirement and let chief of staff kelly know he would retire at the end of this month. it seems awfully sudden. he was doing a podcast and saying the whole issue of a possible interview was on the table. >> well, i guess it's a crowded table with lots of possibilities. it's really important for everybody to understand the distinction between president the president's personal lawyer and representing the office of the presidency. somebody who has experience in the counsel's office is much more capable of being able to be a zealous advocate for the office of the presidency and serving the existing president's interest at the same time. it's good news for trump. >> last september ty cobb was
overheard arguing. maybe you can fill in the details of that. that had to bo an embarrassment to him. >> michael could know the details better than i would but it seems not a lot has changed. you still have a client who is not exactly a model client. somebody known for stretching the truth and out right falsehoods. aides have described as a guy who will probably pass the lie detector test because he's saying what he believes in the moment. also what's not going to change is the doggedness of the mueller probe. i don't know what shifted inside the thinking of this lawyer because what you have here is still lawyer after lawyer after lawyer after law firm after law firm that's refused to work with this president for precisely the reasons i just laid out. i think there's a lot we don't know yet about why this happened. >> your other colleague at the new york times now joins us.
tell us the background hire on c c cobb's sudden retirement. >> he came in last year and was a voice of moderation. the relationship between the white house and the mueller investigation, was tense. the mueller folks didn't feel like they were getting everything. the white house wasn't responding fast enough to their request. cobb came in and was like everybody calm down and we're going to cooperate fully. we're going to give the mueller investigation whatever it wants and the fastest way to get through this is just full cooperation. he said it a million times. full cooperation mode. that ruffles some feathers at the white house with the white house counsel who thought that cobb was too willing to agree
with the the mueller investigators wanted. he worked on special counsel investigations himself. he knows bob mueller and he was a voice of moderation. what's interesting here is you're replacing him with somebody like emmett flood who has been through the impeachment fires and going to probably be more likely to take an adversarial tone. >> matt. the trump lawyers don't have security clearances. apparently john dowd did. he's long since left.
now emmet flood has to get security clearance as well. >> sure. we know that cobb did. i would assume given the prominent law firm he works for and the high level cases he works on, he's been through the clearance process before which will speed this up. whether he has active clearances now that need to be elevated or whether they need to rush this through, i suspect that's not going to be a problem for somebody who is taking a job like the white house special counsel. >> matt you've already referenced this but let me read you, refresh everyone's memory with this tweet from the president attacking maggie's story. the failing new york times wrote a false story stating i'm
unhappy with my legal team on the russia case and i'm going to add another lawyer to help out. wrong. i'm very happy with my lawyers. they are doing a great job. >> one out of three is still there. obviously, fake news. what can you say? >> jay, check your mail. >> if you stack up the record of the new york times against the record of president trump in terms of presenting factually accurate information, i know whose side i'm on. >> especially on twitter. >> i think the bigger problem is, i don't know if it's a bigger problem but it's a huge problem. look at all the people who believed him hen when he said t. this is pattern with this president. because his followers are so devoted to him and republicans on capitol him or so comply sit. they say the president is telling the truth. we know instance after instance in which this has not been the
case. >> matt, in the last 24 hours have seen rod rosenstein standing up to mark meadows in a very public way on camera saying he's not going to be extorted and the justice department is not going to bend. is this a turning point add well? is it stiffening the spine of the people in charge of the mueller probe? >> i don't know how the fight between doj and congress is sort of playing in the room with bob mueller and his shop. i suspect it's more of a side show or a distraction. any propersecutor would not liko turn over documents to their investigation. because rosenstein is digging in that's stiffening the spine of bob mueller. i don't think his spine needs
stiffening. i think it will be interesting to see how these changes play out at the white house and if the change from cobb to flood is a sign that the white house is going to take a different diffe. you know, i spoke with ty cobb briefly before we ran our story. you know, he said he planned to stay on until the end of the month. he said he wished everybody well. you know, he said he was honored to serve. it doesn't sound like he's being rushed out the door, but who knows what's in the mind of the president when he makes these changes. is he hoping that somebody's going to come in -- emmet flood will come in guns blazing and change the legal strategy? >> finally, ruth marcus, msnbc contributor and msnbc contributor ruth marcus, deputy page editor of the "washington post," how would you play out the likelihood of whether the president agrees or doesn't agree? if he is subpoenas if it comes
to that, that is a lengthy procedure? would there -- would it fast-trfast fast-track through the supreme court and get through quickly? >> one is bringing in a lawyer from williams & connolly with extensive criminal experience would suggest that his counsel to the president would be both in the president's presidential capacity and his personal capacity, that it would be not wise to participate in answering questions. then the question is, if bob mueller makes the nebs step axt issues a subpoena, do you comply or contest the subpoena? contest the subpoena outside of authority of the special counsel? we've seen this before. during the watergate prosecution. it's not that complicated a legal question, but if in you're
a -- you go to the district court, supreme court, that could take months. >> thanks so much to michael schmidt, russian roulette. one of the nation's top spies is saying about that meeting at trump tower. stay with us on msnbc. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems.
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trump tower meeting between a russian lawyer and top members of the trump campaign may have been even more damaging than previously realized. today u.s. former top spy, former cia director general michael hayden noted several critical advantages the kremlin gave through that meeting with top campaign officials. >> we would have called that a russian soft approach. it's good trade craft. they learned the campaign was willing to dealant exactly. >> which is a really big thing. willing to accept information on hillary clinton with the providence of the russian government on it. they learned that the campaign would not go to the feds. >> for more let's bring in former acting director of the cia and nbc news national security analyst john maclachlan. this is a very critical point by mike hayden in his new book about what was gained by the russians very early on in the trump campaign. >> absolutely, andrea.
and mike is exactly right. i'm sure when they write their next trade craft manual this june 9 meeting will be a case study exactly how to do this. in the intelligence business, looking for an agent to recruit there's a cycle, spot that says, develop, recruit. here they were at stage three. they had spotted donald trump jr. they had assessed his vulnerability. he wanted to help his dad and were in the process of reaching out to him to develop him and see where they could go, and mike hayden is quite right. they got a lot out of this. a classic intelligence operation by the russians. and even if this had never come to light, thanks to the media, and two years from now, the russian government wanted something from the united states. this would be blackmail material. they have an e-mail from donald trump jr. saying, bring it on,
dirt about hillary, and he never reported it to the fbi. so it's a classic operation that will be a textbook case in moscow. >> i thought mike hayden on michael jordemergenc "morning joe" was brutally honest about himself saying he had not thought deeply enough how russia was moving against the u.s. that the focus had been, understandably, after 9/11, on counterterrorism, and then on the russians against them on cyber, but not seeing how they were taking advantage of information attacks. >> well, you know -- well, andrea, yes, i do, but i would say just to be a little easier on mike hayden, i would say when you look at russian behavior since 9/11, there is a very clear switch in the way they operate after 2012, when putin comes back as president's in that period of time he focuses much more on eroding confidence in the united states. eroding our alliances in europe
and our partnerships with everything from nato to the eu. it's much more after 2012, and actually i would say russia has gone global now, because we see them much more active in europe, africa, latin america. that's the switch point. so i'm not sure you would have detected that during mike hayden's time in government. >> well, mike hayden's new book, which is "the assault on intelligence" sounds fascinating. about to go get it after watching him on "morning joe." thank you all for going through so much as we pursue this investigation. that does it for us. kasie hunt is here right next to me on msnbc. >> hi, andrea. what a whirlwind news day. >> as usual, i suppose. >> thank you so much. i am kasie hunt. i am in for craig melvin today. breaking news -- cobb is out. another lawyer representing the
be sure to tune in this sunday for the state of the union. it all starts at 9:00 a.m. it all starts at 9:00 a.m. eastern. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com breaking news. not backing down. forced out over domestic abuse allegations. kelly said he has nothing to even consider resigning over, even over a growing controversy over white house security clearances. strayed wars. a day after sending world markets into a tail spin, president trump said trade wars are good. will merge products be targeted for retaliation? angering his allies. the president's position on trade, guns, and even his own
attorney general are angering his allies. does he risk losing key advisers? and powerful supporters in zmong and russian sedructress. she can provide the missing pieces. you're in "the situation room." breaking news, president trump has arrived at his florida retreat. he can't he is came the chaos he's been creating in washington. chief of staff john kelly is caught up in the controversy but says won't be joining the growing number of advisers leaving the white house, even as he acknowledges deficiency there's in the handling of security clearances and classified materials.
i'll speak with michael heyden, the formerer director of the cia and nsa. and our specialists are all standing by. first straight to our chief white house correspondent, jim acosta. the president is in florida, in palm beach. he seemingly can't get away from the problems at the white house. >> that's right. trade wars, staff wars, they go on and on. chief of staff john kelly left staffers puzzled when he tried to relitigate the troubles at the white house in the rob porter scandal. one official said it was odd for kelly to res direct controversy and there's more chaos on the policy side as president trump is doubling down, inviting a trade war that even some administration officials are acknowledging it will cost americans more money to guy products they need. when president trump stepped away from the white house, he left behind an administration that is by many accounts, in utter turmoil.
his chief of staff reignited the discussion over rob porter who was ousted last month over charges of domestic abuse. kelly. i have nothing to even consider resigning over. he admitted to reporters that glowing statements from the white house praising port he, as the staff secretary were stepping down, were a mistake. kelly tried clean up the time line of the staff saga insisting he only learned of red flags february 6 willth. that they were aware of it last november. he attempted to explain it saying the first accusation had to do with a messy divorce but no mention of physical abuse. and he said that is insulting to anyone suffering in an abusive situation now. emotional and psychological us
into abuse. not to mention someone out of a shower is physical. the president is face go growing criticism over the sudden announcement of the tariffs on steel. mr. trump's response, trade wars are good and easy to win. we win big. it's easy. the "wall street journal" is not buying it saying, donald trump made the biggest policy blunder of his presidency. when asked about predictions that consumer costs will go up, he brought out a can of soup. >> let's put in it perspective. i just bought can of campbell's soup. it was $1.99 for the can. there's about 3 cents worth of tin plate steel in this can. so if it goes up 25%, that's a tiny fraction of 1 penny. >> but the president's view on tariffs have been known for decades, like his colorful
warning to china. >> listen, you [ bleep ]. >> democrats say this is exactly the kind of chaotic presidency both parties warned about. >> i've served under six administrations. i've never seen such chaos. who knows what he'll do on trade tomorrow morning. they say that the national security adviser could leave the white house in the near future. >> general mcmaster is not going anywhere. if this is chaos, i think the american people are glad for it. if they want to call it chaos, fine. we call it success. >> not the moengs the ever changing position gun control. the president met with the nra and tweeted, good, great meeting in the oval office twonlt the nra. raising questions that whether the president still supports confiscating guns without due process. as you said earlier in the week of the will. >> he is looking for ways we can improve the mental health system so we can take guns away from
staff like jared kushner. republicans want some answers too. trey gowdy has issued a very detailed question. now gowdy and the top democrat elijah cummings want to know exactly when they became aware of disqualifying information involving rob porter with a detailed time line of the background investigation. despite the wednesday deadline for this information, i'm told the white house has not yet provided this information to the committee. the office did say they home they get information soon. but this week sanders made no commitments. and there's significant scrutiny on the senate side. chuck grassly has joined the
second category. no sense of guilt or character flaws in the part of the young man. but there could be circumstances. i've been part of this. sometimes we denial it to people had are good but there are vulnerability there's. at least at the theoretical level that we didn't want to embrace. so yes, that could be part of it. >> so the interim top secret security clearances. that has been downgraded from top secret to secret. it is on the agenda with these restricted security clearances. >> in my view, if secret means secret, and we're not allowing some wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
the standards were not in place when this new administration came into being. they didn't have the standards and as a result, you have dozens and dozens of officials who couldn't get top secret clearances. this was an incoming feel didn't have a great deal of regard for norms. there are norms, through lessons lermd, if you don't do it that way you're really increasing the odds things will happen. in case of mr. kushner. we jumped over norms with regard to nepotism torsion divestment of interest. we jumped over norms with regard to his security clearance and look where we are now.
a lot of reports including our own reporting that mcmaster could be out at the end of the month. we all know it has happened to michael flynn. this turnover, how does it impact national security? >> it can't be good. what we're seeing is we're seeing this story appear on about a 30-day sine wave. and i think that's a reflection. >> i think it might be a problem. the problem is process. unless your national security adviser is brent scowcroft, it is your process guy. he is the one who imposes order and discipline and sequence. and he dislikes all of those virtues. so i think we see this recurring every three to four weeks and it
will recur even if hr leaves. this week putin delivered a major speech and showed a lot of video for what he describe as invincible nuclear weapons in florida. the president stays silent when it comes to putin. why? >> i don't know why. >> i don't know why. i'll suggest one reason. i think no matter what the circumstances are, there has become a thing for him. you and i and others have talked about this going back to the campaign. this is a stubborn mannest
should have been criticizing vladimir. on the actual substance, putin was taunting him. the correct response for an american president to someone like putin is to be quiet. that was the right answer. i wish that he had answer for some of the other taunting that we've seen. >> general, thank you for coming in. >> up next, more on vladimir putin's taunting of the united states military. and maybe trying to frighten americans with his new boasts of invincible new nuclear missiles. and described as the missing puzzle pieces in exchange for helping get out of a prison in thailand. vo: gopi has built her business with her own two hands.
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son-in-law. is this weird enough? is this like the strangest story? it just illustrates the problem of nepotism. you can't treat your relatives like they are regular employees. and this crazy roundabout way of trying to get rid of them. >> this is pretty. linked to the investigations going on including the security clearances controversy that has erupted. >> why are they twlork at all without security clearances? >> jeff is right. i mean, two things going on. the nepotism piece and then that you have people who are operate go under interim security clearance. i know we focus with rob porter, the now former white house staff secretary. we focus the allegations of domestic abuse and rightly so. but there's another giant story
there. which is this is the person who is literally, here you go, mr. president. he was handling top secret classified information on an interim security clearance. and they knew there were issues. not because of the issues. you have it with jared kushner. if you ask who he is closest t., >> the former director of the national security agency, he said, jared kushner dealing with these sensitive issues in the middle east or china or mexico, he has no business if he can't get top secret security clearance. just secret isn't going to do it. >> i cannot remember a single
national security meeting at that level. we have jared kushner handling highly classified portfolios, like israel. the israelis are coming into town this weekend. when he is going in with information at a secret level, meaning he dth doesn't have the whole picture or he is going on abuse the system. and he has bias. there are major conflicts of interest. he has a bias and not a bias toward national security. it looks like a business of impropriety. we don't know that. the whole notion of the security clearances, so significant right now. especially when the president, as we know, he has relied on his family members, his close friends sore so much assistance. >> he has. and because of these issues, you see president. this is someone we know, from
what we've seen in the white house, he values loyalty to a fault. that's yes surrounded himself with family members, people like hope hicks who came to the white house with him and is now leaving. that's why you see there president, he is more and more alone now than he has ever been. and those who he relies on, they could be out too, because of the security clearance. it is incremental. not exponential. at the same time, the number of people that he can trust, even if he can rely jared kushner and ivanka, they can't focus just what president trump feels is most important which of course is donald trump. >> we'll take quick break. why pe are upgrading their water filter to zerowater.
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institutions, all of these are golden tickets for putin. why would mcmaster want to stay? national security policy is not being made. he and his team are working. it is being made from trump's bedroom when he goes on a twitter storm. so the incentive, working long hours, not getting paid a lot. >> big pressure from big business, from the editorial pages from the "wall street journal" for his decision to announce tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. would you without going through a full case is process. if you listen to the president, he says throws a good thing. that doesn't match what a lot of economists say. they're worried if president trump keeps going along this path and it braunchs a broader
trade war, that would undermine what's happening. >> if you want to talk about whether it is a good thing, look at smoot hallie. i'm not sure we should make trade policy on twitter but the idea that you say, trade wars are good and can be easily won. if we have tariffs, don't think the countries impacted will say, well, that's fair. we won't do anything. that's the donald trump calculation. that's not the calculation any other country makes. >> they're going on retaliate. >> perhaps they are. i have to say, i'm pretty skeptical of all this complaining from these republican senators and congressmen. they're very good about, oh, we're very concerned. how many have voted against
donald trump? very few. how many have voted against the judicial nominees? how many voted against sfwhoek a couple and that was a big difference. ben sass gets indignant about gun control. all this complaining it rings a little hollow. >> i think he is right that this republican party is donald trump's republican party. if you ever needed evidence, go look at the tax cut. you're talking about a massive increase in the debt. that would not happen in 2010. there has been a capitulation. donald trump had a hostile takeover of the republican party, the 2016 primary and then through election. they've given over to it.
so you will hear the voices like that say it but no one in the republican party should be surprised when donald trump does things are not traditional orthodoxy because he wasn't a republican until two years ago. >> in the campaign he often spoke about trade wars and how the u.s. was suffering as a result. he was opposed, they were all opposed saying this is a bad idea. it is going to hurt the u.s. economically in a national security format. diplomatically. don't do it. you're punishing america's closest allies. forget about china or russia. america's closest allies are the countries that export aluminum and steel to the united states. >> this is a pattern of what we've seen. it is not just on trade. we have all the top intelligence chiefs, the administration saying, russia is meddling in
the election, or they're encouraging and imploring the president to do something to give them more power. you heard admiral rogers say just that and the president refuses to acknowledge it. it is the same thing. the president is the smartest guy in the room. he goes with his gut. he goes with what he thinks despite others who 9:00 subl matter. >> exactly why h.r. mcmaster may not want to stick around. and i remember president obama not listening to the team. but they did listen. the president isn't listening and it is going with his gut on these massive decisions. saying something very wrong at the white house. i want to you elaborate.
>> the chaos does seem worse but there have been many weeks during the trump administration. remember infrastructure week? these weeks where the news from russia dominates. the president is tweeting his way into trouble. there have been a lot of weeks like this and that's why he is a significantly unpopular restaurant. i think we can overstate how bad things are because he is still the leader of the republican party. the economy is doing pretty well. having learned if 2016 to write him off. i ain't doing it again. a new bid to influence public opinion taking his claims of russian military superiority
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what is putin saying? >> he says the speck spend new weapons are battle ready. he is full of swagger over these weapons, even if some aren't close to being ready for deployment and he is taking joy in tweaking an american audience in an interview. full of bravado, he delivered his threat straight to american living rooms. he said the money from american taxpayers have been thrown to the wind. megyn kelly asked whether the missiles he's been boasting about were successful. >> all of they will were successful. each is at a different level of readiness. >> do you believe him? could any of these be on combat
duty? where would they be in. >> it's possible. i think they would be in the military district opposite the baltic states. >> if putin has his missiles at kalingrad, it is wedged between poland and lithuania where putin has a massive naval base and tens of thousands of troops. but he promised his american interviewer he would never use the new weapons unless provoked. >> we have two reasons. the first is a nuclear attack against us. or an attack against the russian federation using conventional weapon ts. >> the new weapons he claims to know developing includes a xroom has unlimited range and an
unimagined drone that could carry a nuclear weapon to florida. >> u.s. officials downplayed the russian show of force calling it cheesy. but at the same time, there are reports the trump administration is ramping up the missile defense to counter putin's threat. analysts say he has cleverly maneuvered this stand-off to box this president trump. >> if we don't respond in kind, to show that we're capable of respond an attack like that, we look weak. and that i think putin has forced donald trump into a position where he either looks soft on russia, which might be because of election related activities, which he's already vulnerable on. or he who is the take a harder line. >> many point to it as a new
arms race, a new cold war between the u.s. and russia. putin says america started it by getting out of the missile treaty 16 years ago. >> what are experts saying about america's defenses against these new russian missiles? >> well, they said the new missiles have not been developed to counter act them but they don't have to. the most effective defense is the conventional and nuclear deterrent. america's own capability to hit russia hard, to blow them off the surface of the earth, if russia files. they said that he is well aware of the capability. >> thank you for coming up. a very bizarre claim by a whom has what she describes as the miss go puzzle pieces about president trump and the russians. she said she can't talk now
because she's in thailand.
thialand. >> joining us from moscow, what is this all about? >> well, wolf, this is an extraordinary story which offers us a very rare glimpse into the secret woerrld of politics and business. she describes herself as a sex coach and is promising to reveal secrets of information that may be relevant, she says, to the mueller inquiry. take a listen. >> she promotes herself endlessly on social media. a kind of self-styled russian sex guru who supposedly teaches you the arts of sed duck shn for a fee of course. >> even if it we're interacting with these men, very few discuss high topics with them. if you want to seduce a man like
that he needs to be hooked. >> amid snaps and tin till lating videos, she brags of lee yas zons with billionaires. one in particular. these are the images that have thrust her into the kind of spot light she didn't expect. it shows her relaxing on a boat with two men. one is one of russia's richest men. russia's main opposition leader seized on the images as evidence of official corruption suggesting the two men can be heard discussing u.s./russia relations may have served betweas a link between the kremlin and trump campaign. they refused to comment. in a statement to cnn, his
spokesperson said he's suing ripka and her business partner because they quote maliciously made his private photos and personal information public: it's not the first time the russian oligarch known for close to the kremlin has fended off allegations of collusion. cnn confronted him last year. offered him private briefings. he told cnn he never received any communication. >> de it was after the promise more detail, more detail, she was holding one of her classes on this beach in thialand that this extraordinary story appears to have taken a spy novel turn. she was arrested by thai police
for violating the terms of her tourist visa managing to record that quick tan tal liesing message aimed at the america media. >> i'm ready to give you all the missing pieces of the puzzle, support them with videos and audio regarding the connections of our respective lawmakers with trump, manafort and the rest. i'm waiting for your offers. >> they're possibly just the words of a desperate woman hoping to avoid deportation to russia, but her promise with no evidence so far to unlock the mysteries of the trump/russia scandal. she certainly got the attention she so often craved. >> has she awaits her fate, cnn has managed to make contact and she tells she's got 18 hours of audio recordings.
she also says she has a photograph of an unnamed american businessman who met with and asked to delete the image but she didn't. nothing conclusive, but this is generating a lot of interest. surprising amount of interest in russia, so we're going to be keeping a very close eye on this story. >> what do you suspect to could happen? >> well i think we're waiting to see whether she will emerge into the public again. what that will happen. she's expected to be deported from thailand at some point over the next few days or weeks, depending on the authorities. if she is deported she'll come back to russia. and praerhaps we might be able get clarity of what she has. >> all right. thank you very much. in moscow for us. coming up, the white house chief of staff john kelly daught up in controversy but said he
won't be joining the growing number leaving the white house even as he admits deficiencies on the handling security clearances and classified materials. what would our founding fathers