there s been a lot of this that s boiled down to black and white where people think, oh, well, do you go after a sitting president for obstruction or not if that s the only thing and where does that go? but, in fact, as you allude to, john, at a minimum, we now have as of tonight bob mueller putting into the record and into court the two key people, the campaign chair and the long time person lawyer both actively came in and lied to him. now one of them got blown up over it, paul manafort, the other tried to dial it back in michael cohen but the question, then, any investigators question becomes what does that fit into at the white house. who knew about that? did others know about that? the fraud exception will come into play if you have employees of the white house or lawyers committing new criminal conspiracies and this is clearly implicated in here to say nothing of the campaign finance crime which is what i want to turn to next. i want to thank nancy for joining us. i want to thank
even attorney-client privilege there s a fraud exception. even the doj say you cannot indict a sitting president. extraordinary circumstances have to be present. in this case, there are. this the only way he s in process. to have him sit in office two years or six years, the cloud of criminality of how he got to the office is thethere. while he puts on supreme court justice. if in fact the significance of the cohen flip is that he s admitting he participant instead a dream that was specifically about getting trump elected, about preventing him not being elected. doesn t donald trump get right out you can t say he can t be prosecuted for a crime that put him in office. the constitution says i don t care. i care. we care. constitutionally speaking and i
might find that the immunity sorry, the privilege, there s an exception called the crime/fraud exception where if it s showing evidence of a crime, the privilege doesn t apply. it might be a p.r. move that they didn t want that statement being made and are letting it go, but it is odd that they haven t asserted the privilege given what a big deal they made about the seizure of many of these documents and items. joe lockhart, you know p.r., there s an issue of getting it out early on your own terms? yeah. i mean, listen, if you listen to rudy giuliani, he said it was exculpatory. i m not sure that s the case. i think it is puzzling. i don t know a real p.r. you know, i think these two things together, though, are interesting because they all go back to the same thing. with manafort you have him holding out, waiting for a pardon or at least thinking he s going to get one. cohen seems to have made the decision or at least his legal team has that that may not be in the offing and loo
it is it a pleasure. martha: you believe that this investigation to michael cohen, you have said very dangerous for the president. yes, this is why. mr. cohenhired lawyers to bring an application in court of returning of everything that was seized and in the alternative to seggregate what belongs to the client and him. and the government had a interesting response. a third of which was redakted. look michael cohenhas been under investigation for a while. much of what he s doing not as a lawyer but as a fixer and michael cohenhas a relationship with donald trump that leads us to believe that crime, fraud exception attorney/client. the federal government told
based on crime. why would you allow somebody that you said you ve targeted as a crime for concealment to be able to go through documents to then what, conceal more documents based on attorney client? it s very important you understand attorney client privilege. it s not a mask for everything. it can only be based on whether or not those conversations are based on legal attorney client, not something that is based on the fraud exception, all right? okay. i ll give you a let me stop you there. i want to walk everyone through this. that s what the cohen team was. normally, paul callan, there s a taint team, that is to under the doj, goes through evidence as if pertains to potential attorney client privilege issues. they would be going through these things. if team cohen doesn t get the tro, they want the special