mr. rudy giuliani on ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of the united states. president trump directed us to, quote, talk with rudy. my recollection is that ambassador sondland stated, quote, dammit, rudy, every time rudsy gets involved he goes and fs everything up. what do you think he meant by his characterization of rudy giuliani as a hand grenade? the investigations that he was promoting that the story line he was promoting, the narrative he was promoting was going to backfire. i think it has backfired. death, taxes, and donald trump s habit of cutting loose associates when they get into trouble, it happened with gordon sondland, it happened with the indicted ukrainians igor fruman and lev parnas. it happened with michael flynn and with roger stone. call it the low-level coffee boy defense. people with unique access to trump who trump would later insist he hardly knew. and now it might be rudy giuliani s turn.
fs everything up. one of those key figures being discussed, john bolton. and he did he has gone public in a way. kind of. he made clear of being back on twitter this week via a twitter post. he claims the white house had kept him off the platform. let s bring in our panel to discuss. joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. natasha, political national security correspondent. andy carny, new york times white house correspondent. and david jolly, former republican congressman from florida. all are msnbc contributors. joyce, we played some of the best hits if you will that happened this past week. what do you think assisted the democrats in their case they need to make as they go forward to put together their report going to the senate? well, the democrats at this juncture are doing something that s roughly the equivalent of of indicting a criminal case. that s not maybe a precise comparison. but it s good enough for this
mr. giuliani to secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccormick, chief of staff mulvaney, and mr. mulvaney s senior advisor rob blair. everyone was in the loop. ambassadors volker and sondland and secretary rick perry also attended the meeting. i attended with dr. hill. we had not completed all the agenda items and we still had time for the meeting and ambassador bolton abruptly ended the meeting. you tell eisenberg, ambassador bolton told me, that i am not part of the this whatever drug deal that mulvaney and sondland are cooking up. i knew then in the course of that discussion said that rudy giuliani was a hand grenade that was going to blow everyone up. my recollection is that ambassador sondland stated quote, damn it, rudy, every time rudy gets involved, he goes and fs everything up. my recollection is that ambassador sondland stated quote, damn it, rudy, every time rudy gets involved, he goes and
amigos were executing on the ground in ukraine. at one point during a meeg of the inaugural delegation, common wondered allowed why mr. giuliani was so active and immediate with ukraine? my recollection is that ambassador sondland stated, quote, damn it, rooudy, every te rudy gets involves he goes and, quote, fs everything up. there s another quote. rudy giuliani, the president s personal attorney, not an employee of the government, running this entire operation. absolutely. he s doing exactly what donald trump wants him to do. this is that bit of separation from trump directly that puts rudely rudy in the space where he can go in and throw trump s game around and he s got the power of that behind him. all of these career officials, they re kind of stuck. you know, they re sort of stumbling over how to work with this person who has been put there by the president.
the role that the president s personal attorney rudy giuliani played. here s a sample. over the following months, it became apparent that mr. giuliani was having a direct influence on the foreign policy agenda that the three amigos were executing on the ground in ukraine. in fact, at one point in the preliminary meeting of the delegation, some wondered aloud why rudy giuliani was so active with respect to ukraine. my recollection is sondland stated, quote, damn it, rudy. every time he gets involved he goes and fs everything up. and fiona hill began her statement by debunking the conspiracy theory and said it was ukraine, not russia, that interfered in the 2016 election. based on questions and statements i have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that russia and its