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analyze. president trump conferred with ceos this week at the white house. the legendary jack welch was there and now he's here to discuss the president's impact so far on american business in his first three months. and palace intrigue. with steve bannon's power on the wane and jared and ivanka's influence spheres rising, should the white house be run like a family business? the answer from yale dean and professor jeffrey sonnenfeld might surprise you. and "sorry" seems to be the hardest word. it's been a banner week as crisis management, sean spicer stumbles with reference to the holocaust and united airlines has the worst in-flight video ever. damage corrosion expert -- damage control expert lanny davis will tell us what should have happened. but first, americans know tax day is april 15, today, but in north korea, today is a national holiday which marks the birthday of kim il-sung, the nation's founder. there had been great concern that pyongyang would mark the occasion with its sixth nuclear missile test. thankfully that didn't happen. instead, kim jong-un showed off two new intercontinental ballistic missile sized canisters as well as displaying its submarine launched ballistic missile and land based version of the same for the first time according to analysts. if north korea, indeed, has operational icbms, it could give it the ability to strike targets in the mainland u.s. and europe. the shorter range missiles displayed saturday, meanwhile, are a threat to countries in the asian region. but north korea did not carry out another nuclear or ballistic missile test. here's my question, might that be because on thursday, the united states had dropped the mother of all bombs on an islamic state cave complex in eastern afghanistan. the 21,000 pound bomb costs $16 million and is so big, that it needs to be deployed from the rear of a cargo plane. general john nicholson, commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan, said, the dropping of that bomb was solely related to afghanistan, but i think it would have been impossible for kim jong-un to ignore. on friday, china warned the united states and north korea against engaging in tit for tat and urged both parties to refrain from inflammatory or threatening statements or deeds to prevent irreversible damage to the situation on the korean peninsula. the aircraft carrier "carl vinson" is in the region and vice president mike pence will arrive in seoul on sunday. it's a lot to discuss with the perfect guest. general michael hayden is the former head of both the nsa and cia, his memoir "playing to the edge, american intelligence in the age of terror" now available in paperback. general hayden, what's in those cans and how do we know? >> well, michael, we don't know. and i think we're going to have an awful lot of american intelligence analysts looking over parade footage for a very long time to try to determine what may or may not be the status of these missile programs in north korea. frankly, michael, i think the smart estimate is, that there's an inevitability about the north koreans getting to the point we fear and you mentioned, but i don't think they're there yet. i think they're several years away. this is a complex problem but they are solving it one piece at a time, even with their unsuccessful missile tests. so again, inevitability but they're not there yet. >> the moab is a bomb that you're well familiar with given your air force background. talk to me about that weapon. a lot of hype here in the united states this week about its utilization. >> yeah. and i get the drama, michael, about the use of such a weapon, but you know, it's a tactical weapon. it was the best tactical solution to a tactical problem in afghanistan. and so we know that it's been used for the first time in combat, but it's been in the arsenal for a very long time. interesting point you raised earlier, the relationship with the moab to north korea, frankly, it may have had a bit of an influence, so did the strike in syria, ten days ago, so did the "vinson" out in what the koreans call the east sea. frankly, michael, i think the influence they had was most on the chinese, not on the north koreans. as you pointed out in your lead in, the chinese are out there now trying to get both sides, ourselves and the north korean whom they treated fairly equally in their commentary to settle down and not do anything that would let this spin out of control. >> and general, to my untrained eye, it seemed like president trump was tossing a hot potato to the chinese and at the end of the week they handed it right back and said you two sort this out, we're not going to do it, am i right? >> the chinese have taken some steps. number one, the fairly equally worded statement against both ourselves and the north koreans, second turning back some north korean exports of coal, and finally, michael, quite interesting to me, a chinese paper associated with the regime in beijing, pointed out that a non-nuclear north korea would enjoy the strategic protection of the peoples republic of china. i do think that the chinese might be edging closer to a place where we want them to be, which is a more active role in this, but fundamentally, of course, they can't take the lead role. perhaps more active, but not definitive. you know, president trump said something interesting after his meeting with xi jinping he said xi explained to him they don't have direct control over the north koreans. the president accepted that, acted a little surprised, but i think most of us knew that for a very long time. so again, we're in a very unsure place here. we've departed from the obama administration's philosophy approach of strategic patience, which was, frankly, to ignore the 3-year-old throwing the porridge on the floor, but now, the 3-year-old seems to be going for the flat screen to throw it on the floor and i think we quite appropriately now are beginning to respond, dare i use the word, michael, a bit more aggressively, to these north koreans provocations and that's got the chinese into the game. that's probably good. >> you reference president trump. president trump was hammered in certain quarters this week for inconsistencies. i want to know from general hayden, if consistency, when it comes to foreign affairs and national security, is overrated as a virtue? i want to show you a short clip that he appeared with maria bartiromo on fox business and then i'll ask that question. play it. >> what are we doing right now in terms of north korea? >> you never know, do you? you never know. >> that's all you're going to say. >> you know i don't talk about the military. i'm not like obama where they talk about in four months we'll hit mosul and in the meantime they get ready. mosul was supposed to last for a week and now they've been fighting it for many months. so many more people died. i don't want to talk about it. >> is his unpredictability actually a virtue, general? >> well, unpredictability is a virtue at the tactical level, so you don't want to telegraph if you're going to have t-lams going after a syrian airfield, but you do want strategic consistency, michael. your friends and your enemies need to have a fairly good idea of what your intent is and where your red lines are. i think it's a bit overstated in what he said in that particular broadcast. >> i want to show you an additional clip of secretary mattis, and general voguele that didn't get a lot of attention this week, the context is, there was a question posed relative to iraq and our future military posture. we'll roll the tape and you parse these words. >> the short answer is, we are in consultations with the iraqi government about what the stabilization phase looks like. there have been no decisions, no offers made either way. we're in consultation and we're talking about what the tactical situation will probably look like. >> general, what exactly is the stabilization phase? that didn't make sense to me. >> michael, good catch. i thought that was the most fascinating part of what was a very fascinating press conference by the secretary and general votel. the stabilization phase is what takes place after you've achieved battlefield success, after you've taken mosul, after you've taken raqqah, what do you do to make it less likely you've got to go back and do it again. it's a wonderful marker that the secretary of defense has put down. i mean on a dark day, you could call the stabilization phase nation building. i'm sure the secretary wasn't referring to that. but what he was trying to say, trying to prepare the department, the administration, and frankly i think the american people for, was that you just can't roll through raqqah with armor and go home. you've got to change the facts on the ground. otherwise you've got to go do this again. i thought it was a magnificent statement. >> finally, you lost an old football coach this week, americans know him as an ambassador, americans knew him, dan rooney, as the chairman of the pittsburgh steelers, but he was actually your coach in, what, sixth, seventh grade? >> sixth, seventh and eighth grade in the catholic football league in pittsburgh. i was dan's quarterback in eighth grade. he gave me my first job with the pittsburgh steelers. i stayed in contact with dan throughout my military career and michael, whenever it looked like i was hitting white water in terms of what i was doing in the intelligence field, dan always called me up and gave me a good word of encouragement. a great american, a great pittsburgher. >> the question is, could general hayden in the backyard on easter sunday still throw a spiral? >> he could. but not for a long distance. >> have a good easter. thank you, general. >> happy easter, michael. tweet me your thoughts @smerconish or my facebook page. i will read some throughout the course of the program. time for kim jong-un to visit mar-a-lago. little golf, big steaks, some wine. what happens to the big negotiation king. i don't know he's a guy anyone would negotiate with but that's a good suggestion. coming up the balance of power in the white house seems to be shifting away from steve bannon and talk son-in-law jared kushner and daughter ivanka trump. some say he's running the business as a family business. my next guest says that's not necessarily a bad thing. >> it's been a busy few weeks for the president. every day he gets to work, rolls up his sleeves and gives a new job to jared kushner. 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this is an even more important conversation given reports steve bannon's job could be in jeopardy. jeffery sonnenfeld a dean and professor at the yale school of management and wrote a provocative and popular essay on this subject for politico titled "trump's white house, is a family business, that's not a bad thing." and he joins me now. jeffery, thanks for being back on the program. why is this not necessarily a bad thing? >> thanks, michael. good to be back with you. the bumper, the clip that you had just coming in to this segment i thought really raised the issue sa terically. steven cole berth saying it's been a busy few mornings, president trump goes to work, rolls up his sleeves and gives jared kushner a new job. one of the complaints, a family role job and one calling him a shadow secretary of state and with really broad duties and people don't understand the range of duties and the third is the age and experience. on family conflict the big thing there, maybe commercial and financial conflicts. he sold off 60 businesses but he and ivanka have almost a billion dollars between them, and there still will be, perhaps, some role issues that come in to dealing with china or some trade matters, but they have jamie gorelick in there who is a former deputy attorney general under clinton advising them and i think they're working through that pretty well. the age and experience issues, you remember jimmy carter's georgia mafia with rahm emanuel and -- rather that was, of course, clinton's rahm emanuel and george stephanopoulos, 31 and 32, clinton had mack mclarty quite young, and he is basically the chief of staff in the white house, and he knew clinton since kindergarten but no special experience in managing national office, he was an auto leasing guy and the georgia mafia carter had was jody powell, hamilton jordan, they had more power than any secretaries of state and nixon had his berlin wall of john ehrlichman and h.r. haldeman that were blocking him, these people were not new in history. whoever elected benjamin franklin to anything, and we know alexander hamilton's contributions came without formal titles. henry kissinger, most of what he did like it or not were not as a formal titled way. he had sweeping powers, but he was a security adviser and he was only the secretary of state -- >> can i sum it up? >> at the end. >> please. >> can i sum it up? >> yeah. >> blood is thicker than water. blood is thicker than water. you met with the president-elect in december, correct me if i'm wrong, and you said to him, be careful of these people around you, because they're for themselves but not that son-in-law and the daughter. >> exactly. they all came in with strong agendas and weren't necessarily his mission. blood is thicker than water as jfk said in explaining his appointment of his brother as toublgs attorney general. there are some conflicts and i believe they're on top of them. the courage he has to speak truth to power and jared and ivanka can tell him the truth in important ways, we have seen anybody who can restore the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, cia director and national security -- national director of intelligence back into the national security council is doing a good thing for the country and these things are vital. >> this is the reason why it's a very important issue today. i mean i think and you correct me if you feel differently, cory lewandowski is probably out because of jared and/or ivanka, i think paul manafort is out because of the duo i think lieutenant general flynn is out because of the duo. now, you know, palace intrigue suggests that steve bannon could be on the ropes, although, jeffrey, you got to be careful. if you're president trump and you cut him loose because who knows how he would react, comment on that? >> well, lbj was famous for saying he would like to have certain critics inside the tent urinating outward from the outside urinating inward. some ways to keep him in the tent. i'm not sure if he cuts him free he can manage him. he has that national following he didn't before. trump is broadening his base, we've seen the polls go up a little because of some of the moves. it's important not to be insulated. thomas moore the adviser to the throne, henry the viii warned us trust is vital and once you separate your fingers it's forever gone. this trust is what matters. the list you ran through are people that lost the confidence and trust of the president. >> but you know, there's something else that occurs to me, that is that a liability of sorts is that if he's overly dependent on jared and ivanka, if they're not around, he gets himself into trouble. i remember being here, saturday, march 4th, when he unleashed that twitter storm, where i think unfounded, said that barack obama had tapped in at the trump tower. that was a saturday. they're observing. so who's going to mind the store from sundown friday until sundown on saturday? >> well, you know, even orthodox jews can break the sabbath for something of great importance, but still, there are other people, as advisors get -- return to their critical roles, such as perhaps the best american in uniform today in terms of the smartest person to power, joe dunford, getting people like that back in the fold that kushner has accomplished this, they will be there during the health care debate too. there was some worry that maybe some of these things went awry because jared was off on the ski slope with his family and that perhaps the president wasn't pleased. you can't just rely on a single person for all these things but what he's doing is with jared, his biggest accomplishment, he isn't the expert on opioid abuse or the reforming the management of the white house, or relations with china, mexico and things he has under his charge, but getting the right people to the table. that's what he's doing. his advisors turn out to be people like dunford and henry kissinger and others and getting the right expertise there is what jared is providing and not having this dark government evil world view where we're cutting out expertise from getting to the president. those saturday morning tweets here we are, looks like we perhaps dodged another bullet, maybe we will have fewer of them going forward. >> professor jeffrey sonnenfeld, thank you for being back. >> thank you, michael. >> what do you think? tweet me @smerconish or post on my facebook page. katherine, nepotism is nepotism. it is wrong on so many levels. but i think professor sonnenfeld makes an interesting point, right, who can speak truth to power? one of the problems that i think this president has, and other presidents have had, is that nobody wants to be the barrier of bad news. i think professor sonnenfeld's argument among other things is to say, the kids will tell the old man, when something needs correcting. whether that's getting rid of michael flynn or potentially getting rid of steve bannon. up ahead, president trump met with a group of ceos this week. the legendary jack welch was there and he will join us to discuss the president's impact on american business and i have to ask jack, i gotta ask jack, how would he as a ceo have handled the united airlines crisis over the forced removal of a passenger? plus, that united fiasco was one of several high profile damage control stories this week. there was also sean spicer's unfortunate botch of world history, did you see jimmy kimmel's take? >> you had a, you know, someone as despicable as hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons. so you have to, if you're russia -- >> oh, no. no. did i just defend hitler? hitler? i think i did. why did i even do that? why bring up the holocaust. at press secretary school the one rule was never defend hitler. experience a shift in the natural order. experience amazing. 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[ doorbell rings ] who's that? show me netflix. sign up for netflix on x1 today and keep watching all year long. the ceo of united airlines oscar munoz on the ropes this week, all because of how one passenger was treated. david dao now infamously forced to give up his seat and dragged off the plane. the company's responses seem a textbook case in how not to hand a corporate crisis. munoz due to earn $14 million this year might lose a half million dollar bonus based on quote/unquotes customer satisfaction but is that enough? joining me now, one of the ceos who met with president trump at a white house summit this week, america's well i would have said america's best-known ceo, jack welch, the legendary former ceo of ge, you've been dethroned you were the best known ceo for all the right reasons. mr. munoz is now the best-known ceo for all the wrong reasons. >> well, he had a tough break this week. he had a breakdown and they had a problem and he got out and apologized as quickly as he could. he maybe didn't grab it the first hour, but he's all over it now. the trick is, michael, on these things they won't have another problem of dragging passengers off the plane. the trick is to get a culture where the customer is centric. they're the number one issues and now they look, they've got a scenario play, on everything that possibly could happen going forward. we always fix the problem we had, but we didn't anticipate with 400,000 people some of the things that would pop up in the future. and with social media today, you have to be scenario playing on every level of every possibility because your reputation is a camera shot away. >> is there a political analogy here in that there's a danger when you become the ceo that you're just too far removed from some of what goes on on a day-to-day basis like a person who becomes a member of the senate or president of the united states? you lose touch with the electorate or customer base you're serving? >> that's why i'm so impressed with president trump, bringing all kinds of people in, listening, attentively, asking questions, he's trying desperately to keep his finger on the pulse, you got to be all over it. yes. >> you were there this week with a group of ceos, so talk to me about that meeting. there's something else i want to ask you, jack, is he enjoying this job? you've known him for a long, long time. he, obviously, regards you for your counsel, do you think almost 100 days in, this is what he anticipated the role of the u.s. president to be? >> he loves it. he's thriving in it. he's learning every day. let me describe the meeting for a minute if i could, michael. we go to washington, 15 of us, monthly meetings on policy, this time, we break out into working groups of five people. he has three cabinet secretaries, wilbur ross, betty devos, and elaine chao, and he has mike mulvaney the omb director, and he has -- excuse me, another individual there, scott pruitt, the epa administrator. we broke into five groups, three with each one, the secretaries and the directors outlined their plans. we all commented on them for an hour and 15 minutes or so. we had a spokesperson for the group and the secretary, then met with the president for an hour and a half. and we laid out the secretary laid out her view of the the meeting and our secretary of the meeting laid out their view of the meeting, five report out, three players, and the administration, and they laid it out to the president and his staff. i'll tell you, he was deeply into everyone, let's do this, let's do that. i agree with that, don't agree with that. he engaged staff. i mean, a thousand of them and he was in there like a real player. i was overly impressed. >> do you think it was a mistake for them to make the move on health care before taxes and now will they be able to get taxes done given that health care was a nonstarter? >> well, he went for health care for some administrative reasons and he also needed the savings from health care, the $900 billion, to make the tax cut more meaningful. now, he's going to try to get health care again. he committed to that. and if he gets it he will have $900 million to put into the tax bill. now if he doesn't get it, he's not going to wait for ever if they delay and he will have a smaller tax bill which won't be as effective. >> jack, thus far, wall street individuals with backgrounds such as yours seem enthusiastic. the market simmered a bit this week for a variety of different reasons. i don't need to tell you there has to be some enthusiasm felt by the blue collar guys who often voted democratic but went for him this time or won't stick with him next time? >> michael, all these things he's done, remember, his platform was jobs jobs jobs, america, jobs. if you look at ex-im bank, the things the media is beating him up for flip flopping, that's doing a smart thing, that's jobs. all these flip flops, quote, janet yellin, she's for easier money, that's jobs jobs jobs. so all the things he's doing, are consistent, totally consistent with jobs jobs jobs. and this flip flop nonsense is -- ridiculous media blowback. >> hey, jack, thank you so much for being here. >> thanks, michael. nice to talk to you again. >> you too. it was a week of high-profile damage control, much of it botched. bill o'reilly took a vacation from fox news after sexual harassment lawsuits drove away advertisers. s calls for sean spicer's resignation after he downplayed the history of the holocaust and united states booting the passenger out of his paid seat. how should each have been handled? i'll ask damage control expert lanny davis. >> we're united airlines. you do what we say when we say and there won't be a problem. could if we say you fly, you fly. if not tough [ bleep ]. >> oh, my god look at what you did to him. >> give us a problem and we'll drag your [ bleep ] off the plane. and if you resist, we'll beat you so badly you'll be using your own face as a flotation device. united airlines, [ bleep ] you. briathe customer app willw if be live monday. can we at least analyze customer traffic? can we push the offer online? brian, i just had a quick question. brian? brian... legacy technology can handcuff any company. but "yes" is here. you're saying the new app will go live monday?! yeah. with help from hpe, we can finally work the way we want to. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. guests can earn a how cafree night when theypring book direct on choicehotels.com and stay with us just two times? spring time. badda book. badda boom. or... badda bloom. seriously? book now at choicehotels.com pabut with odor free blue-emu continuous pain relief spray, i can box out any muscle or joint pain immediately. blue-emu continuous pain relief spray, it works fast and you won't stink. the unpredictability of a flaree may weigh on your mind. thinking about what to avoid, where to go, and how to work around your uc. that's how i thought it had to be. but then i talked to my doctor about humira, and learned humira can help get and keep uc under control... when certain medications haven't worked well enough. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations and ask your gastroenterologist if humira may be right for you. with humira, control is possible. daw this was a week of public crisis management and mismanagement. the video of a passenger being dragged off that united airlines flight went viral and the ceo's inadequate response cost the company millions in market value and might cost him his job. white house press secretary sean spicer violated the cardinal rule that absolutely nothing compares to hitler and the holocaust. and then, bill o'reilly fled the country after advertisers continued to flee his program, raising the question of whether his absence will be permanent? how should each have been handled and what can we learn from them? i gave my two cents this week about united on facebook. nearly 100,000 people have viewed it. here's an excerpt. >> this thing is now a [ bleep ] show. and they should be following lanny davis' edict of telling it early, telling it all, and telling it yourself. hey, ceo of united, mr. munoz, don't use words like re-accomodate and don't send out an e-mail to your staff as recently as last night saying, the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied chicago aviation security officers. the only thing you should be doing right now is saying, boy, did we [ bleep ] up. man, are we sorry about this. and you know what, we're going to reconsider, we're going be to be the first airline to reconsider whether we will exercise our right to overbook flights. we're going to take the lead in that respect and restore the friendly skies. that's my advice, united. i invoked lanny davis' name, his books include "truth to tell tell it early tell it all tell it yourself notes from my white house education" he knows where he speaks his clients include martha stewart, penn state, former senator trent lott, the washington redskins and a slew of others. i invoked your names and said this is not out of lanny's playbook. >> thanks for the plug, first of all and secondly, i would like to make full disclosure that michael smerconish has never called me for advice so he's doing well so far. >> not yet. [ laughter ] >> i would like to start -- >> talk to me about united. another full disclosure, i reached out to the pr department at united and asked them for some advice and perspective so that i could figure out whether or not they should be the textbook case of how to do everything wrong. i knew there was something that i should know from them to explain. and i was unfortunately unable to connect. let me at least start with the rule is a little differently than my mantra you were nice to quote. number one, mr. munoz did not tell all the facts and did not tell the truth. now let's assume i do assume as an honest mistake, but he didn't start with the facts. there was no overbooking problem. and what they did is replace people who were already paid in their seats with crew members. and that wasn't their first factual accurate explanation. so they didn't tell the truth. honest mistake, let's assume. secondly, now we know they didn't tell the truth and we all know it, where are they? they should have put ahmet facts out. the final thing is when you apologize, as mr. munoz tried to do, on "good morning america" there is no "but" after the words "i'm sorry." you say i'm sorry. we will fix the problem. and here are all the facts. they've done none of those. i'm sorry i don't have their perspective, i tried, but this is one of the textbook cases that now replaces exxon in the spill in alaska that was always my textbook example of how to get everything wrong, now united has replaced that one. >> sean spicer at the white house, he violated the cardinal rule of trying to compare something, anything, to hitler, there are no comparison to hitler or the holocaust. i thought that when he was given a mulligan he had an opportunity to stop it in his tracks but he mishandled that as well. roll the tape. >> hitler didn't even sink to the level of using chemical weapons. what did you mean by that? >> i think when you come to sarin gas, there was no -- he was not using the gas on his own people the same way that assad is doing. there was clearly -- i understand. thank you. i appreciate that. there was not, in the -- he brought him in to -- to the holocaust center, i understand that, but in the way that assad used them where he went into towns, dropped them down into the middle of towns it was brought so the use of it. i appreciate the clarification. that was not the intent. >> i watched that in real time and just wanted to say stop the fight. you're doing yourself more harm. to his credit, unlike united, it didn't go on for a period of days. that afternoon he came on with wolf, here on cnn, and completely fessed up. analyze that. >> look, spicer is a special case. when you are so nasty for so long to so many people, and when i mean nasty, i don't care about political differences or politics, he works with president trump, he has to do his best as press secretary, mike mccurry who was the press secretary to president clinton, i think the best press secretary in american history, but i'm biased because he taught me everything i know was a nice guy. he didn't insult reporters. he didn't shake his head and speak nasty to reporters. much less about political opponents. he's a hatchet man from the republican national committee. he did a good job being a hatchet man but when you're press secretary and you make as mistake like that you say i'm sorry, it's in the context of a nasty guy. so crisis management is about having credibility, likability, people give you some slack when you say "i'm sorry" not just because you say the words as he did on "wolf blitzer" but there's a context you believe the words. because of his history of the way he is disrespectful to reporters, much less anybody that disagrees with him like a democrat, you don't give him any slack and i don't give him any slack. he's in the wrong job and should go somewhere else. >> lanny, i think it is one of -- it's probably as difficult, if not more difficult than the presidency itself, i have to say, and now all of a sudden i'm going to defend him, he doesn't return my calls anymore, but i dealt with him during the course of the campaign. i thought he was always a decent and amiable guy. i have to push back on the idea he doesn't get a chance for corrective action because he's a nasty guy. i don't find him to be that way. that's what i want to say. >> i heard that about him. i've never met him. i've heard that about him. when he's on camera in the press room and during the campaign, there's no way to describe him about political differences, i don't care if he's a republican or conservative or working for donald trump, he comes across nasty. there have been so many times in that press room where i think of michael mccurry, who was always firm, tough, disagreement, but respectful. this guy is not respectful. so there's no reason to give him slack. >> come on, all right. i promoted this as all three issues. very quick, give me the bottom line on o'reilly, his audience isn't abandoning him, so what's the metric by which this thing ought to be judged? >> his own self-dignity. i helped bill with personal advice because i've been on his show, he's been respectful towards me when i've been on his show. i do consider him to be a friend. when he went through one of his early crises and asked for advice he took it. i said to him you can be angry and disregard what has happened or you can tell the audience i get that i did something wrong and i'm moving on and focusing on my family. the prn representing him right now taught me everything i know. but for some reason the angry bill o'reilly is trying to solve a crisis that's a lot more important than his audience and his show. the criss is himself and his family. i would advice him, go back to basics. whatever happened, you have hurt people and you need to simply address that you've hurt people. you don't want to hurt people. you're vsorry for that. if he did that, he might have a chance to recover if he's not angry. >> thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> still to come, your best and worst tweets. like this one. i think that was lanny's point that he was making a moment ago. i didn't want this to be a partisan conversation. i think on a human level he's a decent guy with an awfully tough guy. say, sean, i don't think you deserve the defense i'm providing you. you better return some phone calls. back in a second. calcu... to my monthly shall we initiate the restart sequence? 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(child giggles) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. get symbicort free for up to one year. visit saveonsymbicort.com today to learn more. . thank you so much for watching and following me on facebook and twitter. this is a facebook remark. hey, dean, just trying to offer some parity. that's all. some weeks i get blasted from the left and some weeks i get blasted from the right. that's how i know i'm doing my job. hit me with another one, catherine. well, i guess this is the week that i get blasted from the left. mr. ross or ms. ross. hit me with one more, quickly. don't defend spicer, michael, no, no, no. well, you are uniform in your criticisms this week, ladies and gentlemen. i'll see you here next weekend. . you are live in the cnn newsroom. i'm ana cabrera in new york. first breaking news. south korea's news agency announcing an attempted missile launch by north korea failed. cnn was there on the ground during this massive milt parade that included two canisters big enough to hold the type of missile capable of reaching the united states. this is the first time pyongyang has eve
New-yorkUnited-statesPyongyangP-yongyang-siNorth-koreaGeorgiaAfghanistanPhiladelphiaPennsylvaniaAlaskaWashingtonBeijing happy easter, everybody. we welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. in a military parade today, north korea displayed two canisters that could hold two intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of reaching the united states. then again, they could just be empty painted cans. general michael hey is here to analyze. president trump conferred with ceos this week at the white house. the legendary jack welch was there and now he's here to discuss the president's impact so far on american business in his first three months. and, palace intrigue steve bannon's power on the wane and jared and ivanka's influence rising, should the white house be run like a family business? the answer from yale dean and professor jeffrey sunfeld might surprise you. and, sorry, seems to be the hard word. it's been a banner week as crisis management, sean spicer stumbles with reference to the holocaust and united airlines has the worst in-flight video ever. lanny davis will tell us what should have happened. but first, americans know tax day is april 15, today, but in north korea, today is a national holiday which marks the birthday of kim il-sung, the nation's founder. there had been great concern that pyongyang would mark the occasion with its sixth nuclear missile test. thankfully that didn't happen. instead, kim jong-un showed off two new intercontinental ballistic missile sized canisters and displaying its submarine launched ballistic missile and land based version of the same for the first time according to analysts. if north korea, indeed, has operational icbms, it could give it the ability to strike targets in the mainland u.s. and europe. the shorter range missiles displayed saturday, meanwhile, are a threat to countries in the asian region. but north korea did not carry out another nuclear or ballistic missile test. here's my question, might that be because on thursday, the united states had dropped the mother of all bombs on an islamic state cave complex in eastern afghanistan. the 21,000 pound bomb costs $16 million and is so big, that it needs to be deployed from the rear of a cargo plane. general john nicholson, commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan, said, the dropping of that bomb was solely related to afghanistan, but i think it would have been impossible for kim jong-un to ignore. on friday, china warned the united states and north korea against engaging in tit for tat and urged both parties to refrain from inflammatory or threatening statements or deeds to prevent irreversible damage to the situation on the korean peninsula. the aircraft carrier "carl vinson" is in the region and vice president mike pence will arrive in seoul on sunday. it's a lot to discuss with the perfect guest. general michael hayden is the former head of both the nsa and cia, his memoir "playing to the edge, american intelligence in the age of terror" now available in paperback. general hayden, what's in those cans and how do we know? >> well, michael, we don't know. and i think we're going to have an awful lot of american intelligence analysts looking over parade footage for a very long time to try to determine what may or may not be the status of these missile programs in north korea. frankly, michael, i think the smart estimate is, that there's an inevitability about the north koreans getting to the point we fear and you mentioned, but i don't think they're there yet. i think they're several years away. this is a complex problem but they are solving it one piece at a time, even with their unsuccessful missile tests. so again, inevitability but they're not there yet. >> the moab is a bomb that you're well familiar with given your air force background. talk to me about that weapon. a lot of hype here in the united states this week about its utilization. >> yeah. and i get the drama, michael, about the use of such a weapon, but you know, it's a tactical weapon. it was the best tactical solution to a tactical problem in afghanistan. and so we know that it's been used for the first time in combat, but it's been in the arsenal for a very long time. interesting point you raised earlier, the relationship with the moab to north korea, frankly, it may have had a bit of an influence, so did the strike in syria, ten days ago, so did the "vinson" out in what the koreans call the east sea. frankly, michael, i think the influence they had was most on the chinese, not on the north koreans. as you pointed out in your lead in, the chinese are out there now trying to get both sides, ourselves and the north korean whom they treated fairly kwequay in their commentary to settle down and no do anything that would let this spin out of control. >> and general, to my untrained eye, it seemed like president trump was tossing a hot potato to the chinese and at the end of the week they handed it right back and said you two sort this out, we're not going to do it, am i right? >> the chinese have taken some steps. number one, the fairly equally worded statement against both ourselves and the north koreans, second turning back some north korean exports of coal, and finally, michael, quite interesting to me, a chinese paper associated with the regime in beijing, pointed out that a non-nuclear north korea would enjoy the strategic protection of the peoples republic of china. i do think that the chinese might be edging closer to a place where we want them to be, which is a more active role in this, but fundamentally, of course, they can't take the lead role. perhaps more active, but not definitive. you know, president trump said something interesting after his meeting with xi jinping he said xi explained to him they don't have direct control over the north koreans. the president accepted that, acted a little surprised, but i think most of us knew that for a very long time. so again, we're in a very unsure place here. we've departed from the obama administration's philosophy approach of strategic patience, which was, frankly, to ignore the 3-year-old throwing the porridge on the floor, but now, the 3-year-old seems to be going for the flat screen to throw it on the floor and i think we quite appropriately now are beginning to respond, dare i use the word, michael, a bit more aggressively, to these north koreans provocations and that's got the chinese into the game. that's probably good. >> you reference president trump. president trump was hammered in certain quarters this week for inconsistencies. i want to know from general hayden, if consistency, when it comes to foreign affairs and national security, is overrated as a virtue? i want to show you a short clip that he appeared with maria bartiromo on fox business and then i'll ask that question. play it. >> what are we doing right now in terms of north korea? >> you never know, do you? you never know. >> that's all you're going to say. >> you know i don't talk about the military. i'm like obama where they talk about in four months we'll hit mosul and in the meantime they get ready. mosul was supposed to last for a week and now they've been fighting it for many months. so many more people died. i don't want to talk about it. >> is his unpredictability actually a virtue, general? >> well, unpredictability is a virtue at the tactical level, so you don't want to telegraph if you're going to have someone going after a syrian airfield, but you do want strategic consistency, michael. your friends and your enemies need to have a fairly good idea of what your intent is and where your red lines are. i think it's a bit overstated in what he said in that particular broadcast. >> i want to show you an additional clip of secretary mattis and general vogul that didn't get a lot of attention this week, the context is, there was a question posed relative to iraq and our future military posture. we'll roll the tape and you parse these words. >> the short answer is, we are in consultations with the iraqi government about what the stabilization phase looks like. there have been no decisions, no offers made either way. we're in consultation and we're talking about what the tactical situation will probably look like. >> general, what exactly is the stabilization phase? that didn't make sense to me. >> michael, good catch. i thought that was the most fascinating part of what was a very fascinating press conference by the secretary and general votell. the stabilization phase is what takes place after you've achieved battlefield success, after you've taken mosul, after you've taken raqqah, what do you do to make it less likely you've got to go back and do it again. it's a wonderful marker that the secretary of defense has put down. i mean on a dark day, you could call the stabilization phase nation building. i'm sure the secretary wasn't referring to that. but what he was trying to say, trying to prepare the department, the administration, and frankly i think the american people for, was that you just can't roll through raqqah with armor and go home. you've got to change the facts on the ground. otherwise you've got to go do this again. i thought it was a magnificent statement. >> finally, you lost an old football coach this week, americans know him as an ambassador, americans knew him, dan rooney, as the chairman of the pittsburgh steelers, but he was actually your coach in, what, sixth, seventh grade? >> sixth, seventh and eighth grade in the catholic football league in pittsburgh. i was dan's quarterback in eighth grade. he gave me my first job with the pittsburgh steelers. i stayed in contact with dan throughout my military career and michael, whenever it looked like i was hitting white water in terms of what i was doing in the intelligence field, dan always called me up and gave me a good word of encouragement. a great american, a great pittsburgher. >> the question is, could general hayden in the backyard on easter sunday still throw a spiral? >> he could. but not for a long distance. >> have a good easter. thank you, general. >> happy easter, michael. tweet me your thoughts @smerconish or my facebook page. i will read some throughout the course of the program. time for kim jong-un to visit mar-a-lago. little golf, big steaking, some wine. what happens to the big negotiation king. i don't know he's a guy anyone would negotiate with but that's a good suggestion. coming up the balance of power in the white house seems to be shifting away from steve bannon and toward son-in-lson-in-law jd daughter ivanka trump. some say he's running the business as a family business. my next guest says that's not necessarily a bad thing. >> it's been a busy few weeks for the president. every day he gets to work, rolls up his sleeves and gives a new job to jared kushner. z2bg6z z10mz "smerconish" brought to you by trex wood alternative decking, engineering what's next in outdoor living. y2bg6y y10my hey there, starting your search for the ri am!used car? 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>> thanks, michael. good to be back with you. the bumper, the clip that you had just coming in to this segment i thought really raised the issue sa terically. steven cole berth saying it's been a busy few mornings, president trump goes to work, rolls up his sleeves and gives jared kushner a new job. one of the complaints, a family role job and one calling him a shadow secretary of state and with really broad duties and people don't understand the range of duties and the third is the age and experience. on family conflict the big thing there, maybe commercial and financial conflicts. he sold off 60 businesses but he and ivanka have almost a billion dollars between them, and there still will be, perhaps, some role issues that come in to dealing with china or some trade matters, but they have jamie gorlick in there who is a former deputy attorney general under clinton advising them and i think they're working through that pretty well. the age and experience issues, you remember jimmy carter's georgia mafia with rahm emanuel and -- rather that was, of course, clinton's rahm eman nall and george stephanopoulos, 31 and 32, clinton had mack mccarty quite young, and he is basically the chief of staff in the white house, and he knew clinton since kindergarten but no special experience in managing national office, he was a an auto leasing guy and the georgia mafia carter had was jody powell, hamilton jordan, they had more power than any secretaries of state and nixon had his berlin wall of john earlickman and h.r. halderman that were blocking him, these people were not new in history. whoever elected benjamin franklin to anything, and we know alexander hamilton's contributions came without formal titles. henry kissinger, most of what he did like it or not were not as a formal titled way. he had sweeping powers, but he was a security adviser and he was only the secretary of state -- >> can i sum it up? >> at the end. >> please. >> can i sum it up? >> yeah. >> blood is thicker than water. blood is thicker than water. you met with the president-elect in december, correct me if i'm wrong, and you said to him, be careful of these people around you, because they're for themselves but not that son-in-law and the daughter. >> exactly. they all came in with strong agendas and weren't necessarily his mission. blood is thicker than water as jfk said in explaining his appointment of his brother as tomorrow nothing wrong with nepotism, you keep it in the family. there are some conflicts and i believe they're on top of them. the courage he has to speak truth to power and jared and ivanka can tell him the truth in important ways, we have seen anybody who can restore the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, cia director and national security -- national director of intelligence back into the national security council is doing a good thing for the country and these things are vital. >> this is the reason why it's a very important issue today. i mean i think and you correct me if you feel differently, cory lewandowski is probably out because of jared and/or ivanka, i think paul manafort is out because of the duo i think lieutenant general flynn is out because of the duo. now, you know, palace intrigue suggests that steve bannon could be on the ropes, although, jeffrey, you got to be careful. if you're president trump and you cut him loose because who knows how he would react, comment on that? >> well, lbj was famous for saying he would like to have certain critics inside the tent urinating outward from the outside urinating inward. some ways to keep him in the tent. i'm not sure if he cuts him free he can manage him. he has na national following he didn't before. trump is broadening his base, we've seen the polls go up a little because of some of the moves. it's important not to be insulated. thomas moore the adviser to the throne, henry the viii warned us trust is vital and once you separate your fingers it's forever gone. this trust is what matters. the list you ran through are people that lost the confidence and trust of the president. >> but you know, there's something else that occurs to me, that is that a liability of sorts is that if he's overly dependent on jared and ivanka, if they're not around, he gets himself into trouble. i remember being here, saturday, march 4th, when he unleashed that twitter storm, where i think unfounded, said that barack obama had tapped in at the trump tower. that was a saturday. they're observing. so who's going to mind the store from sun down friday until sun down on saturday? >> well, you know, even orthodox jews can break the sabbath for something of great importance, but still, there are other people, as advisors get -- return to their critical roles, such as perhaps the best american in uniform today in terms of the smartest person to power, joe dunford, getting people like that back in the fold that kushner has accomplished this, they will be there during the health care debate too. there was some worry that maybe some of these things went awry because jared was off on the ski slope with his family and that perhaps the president wasn't pleased. you can't just rely on a single person for all these things but what he's doing is with jared, his biggest accomplishment, he isn't the expert on opioid abuse or the reforming the management of the white house, or relations with china, mexico and things he has under his charge, but getting the right people to the table. that's what he's doing. his advisors turn out to be people like dunford and henry kissinger and others and getting the right expertise there is what jared is providing and not having this dark government evil world view where we're cutting out expertise from getting to the president. those saturday morning tweets here we are, looks like we perhaps dodged another bullet, maybe we will have fewer of them going forward. >> professor jeffrey sonnenfeld, thank you for being back. >> thank you, michael. >> what do you think? tweet me @smerconish or post on my facebook page. katherine, nepotism is nepotism. it is wrong on so many levels. but i think professor sonnenfeld makes an interesting point, right, who can speak truth to power? one of the problems that i think this president has, and other presidents have had, is that nobody wants to be the barrier of bad news. i think professor sonnenfeld's argument among other things is to say, the kids will tell the old man, when something needs correcting. whether that's getting rid of michael flynn or potentially getting rid of steve bannon. up ahead, president trump met with a group of ceos this week. the legendary jack welch was there and he will join us to discuss the president's impact on american business and i have to ask job, i got to ask jack, how would he as a ceo have handled the united airlines crisis over the forced removal of a passenger? plus, that united fiasco was one of several high profile damage control stories this week. there was also sean spicer's unfortunate botch of world history, did you see jimmy kimmel's take? >> you had a, you know, someone as despicable as hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons. so you have to, if you're russia -- >> oh, no. no. did i just defend hitler? hitler? i think i did. why did i even do that? why bring up the holocaust. at press secretary school the one rule was never defend hitler. is to always keep track of your employees.r micromanage them. make sure they're producing. woo! employee of the month! you really shouldn't leave their side. vita coco coconut water, hydration comes naturally. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ sfx: engine revving ♪ (silence) ♪ hei don't want one that's haded a big wreck just say, show me cars with no accidents reported find the cars you want, avoid the ones you don't plus you get a free carfax® report with every listing i like it start your used car search at carfax.com but shouldn't it be about firsts?d in zeros. and seconds... how about adding a third? we think there's a bajillion ways to measure success. and whether you have hundreds or millions... we think you deserve the financial freedom to sleep like this at night. this is the new success story. and at t-i-a-a, we're with you. start today at t-i-a-a dot org. but we've got the get tdigital tools to help. now with xfinity's my account, you can figure things out easily, so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount the ceo of united airlines oscar munoz on the ropes this week, all because of how one passenger was treated. david daw now infamously forced to give up hus seis seat and dr off the plane. the company's responses seem a textbook case in how not to hand al corporate crisis. munoz due to earn $14 million this year might lose a half million dollar bonus based on quote/unquotes customer satisfaction but is that enough? joining me now, one of the ceos who met with president trump at a white house summit this week, america's well i would have said america's best-known ceo, jack welsh, the legendary former ceo of ge, you've been dethroned you were the best known ceo for all the right reasons. mr. munoz is now the best-known ceo for all the wrong reasons. >> well, he had a tough break this week. he had a breakdown and they had a problem and he got out and apologized as quickly as he could. he maybe didn't grab it the first hour, but he's all over it now. the trick is, michael, on these things they won't have another problem of dragging passengers off the plane. the trick is to get a culture where the customer is centric. they're the number one issues and now they look, they've got a scenario play, on everything that possibly could happen going forward. we always fix the problem we had, but we didn't anticipate with 400,000 people some of the things that would pop up in the future. and with social media today, you have to be scenario playing on every level of every possibility because your reputation is a camera shot away. >> is there a political analogy here in that there's a danger when you become the ceo that you're just too far removed from some of what goes on on a day-to-day basis like a person who becomes a member of the senate or president of the united states? you lose touch with the electorate or customer base you're serving? >> that's why i'm so impressed with president trump, bringing all kinds of people in, listening, attentively, asking questions, he's trying desperately to keep his finger on the pulse, you got to be all over it. yes. >> you were there this week with a group of ceos, so talk to me about that meeting. there's something else i want to ask you, jack, is he enjoying this job? you've known him for a long, long time. he, obviously, regardses on you for your counsel, do you think almost 100 days in, this is what he anticipated the role of the u.s. president to be? >> he loves it. he's thriving in it. he's learning every day. let me describe the meeting for a minute if i could, michael. we go to washington, 15 of us, monthly meetings on policy, this time, we break out into working groups of five people. he has three cabinet secretaries, wilbur ross, betty devos, and elaine chao, and he has mike mulvaney the omb director, and he has -- excuse me, another individual there, scott pruitt, the epa administrator. we broke into five groups, three with each one, the secretaries and the directorses outlined their plans. we all commented on them for an hour and 15 minutes or so. we had a spokesperson for the group and the secretary, then met with the president for an hour and a half. and we laid out the secretary laid out her view of the the meeting and our secretary of the meeting laid out their view of the meeting, five report out, three players, and the administration, and they laid it out to the president and his staff. i'll tell you, he was deeply into everyone, let's do this, let's do that. i agree with that, don't agree with that. he engaged staff. i mean, a thousand of them and he was in there like a real player. i was overly impressed. >> do you think it was a mistake for them to make the move on health care before taxes and now will they be able to get taxes done given that health care was a nonstarter? >> well, he went for health care for some administrative reasons and he also needed the savings from health care, the $900 billion, to make the tax cut more meaningful. now, he's going to try to get health care again. he committed to that. and if he gets it he will have $900 million to put into the tax bill. now if he doesn't get it, he's not going to weigait for ever i they delay and he will have a smaller tax bill which won't be as effective. >> jack, thus far, wall street individuals with backgrounds such as yours seem enthusiastic. the market simmered a bit this week for a variety of different reasons. i don't need to tell you there has to be some enthusiasm felt by the blue collar guys who often voted democratic but went for him this time or won't stick with him next time? >> michael, all these things he's done, remember, his platform was jobs jobs jobs, america, jobs. if you look at eximbank, the things the media is beating him up for flip flopping, that's doing a smart thing, that's jobs. all these flip flops, quote, janet yellin, she's for easier money, that's jobs jobs jobs. so all the things he's doing, are consistent, totally consistent with jobs jobs jobs. and this flip flop nonsense is -- ridiculous media blowback. >> hey, jack, thank you so much for being here. >> thanks, michael. nice to talk to you again. >> you too. it was a week of high-profile damage control, much of it botched. bill o'reilly took a vacation from fox news after sexual harassment lawsuits drove away advertisers. calls for sean spicer's resignation after he youp played the history of the holocaust and united states booting the passenger out of his paid seat. i will ask control expert lanny davis. >> you do what we say when we say and there won't be a problem. if we say you fly, you fly. if not tough [ bleep ]. >> oh, my god look at what you did to him. >> give us a problem and we'll drag your [ bleep ] off the plane. and if you resist, we'll beat you so badly you'll be using your own face as a flotation device. united airlines, [ bleep ] you. what did you have in mind? 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regal select exterior from benjamin moore®. only available at independently owned paint and hardware stores. this was a week of public crisis management and mismanagement. the video of a passenger being dragged off that united airlines flight went viral and the ceo's inadequate response cost the company millions in market value and might cost him his job. white house press secretary sean spicer violated the cardinal rule that absolutely nothing compares to hitler and the holocaust. and then, bill o'reilly fled the country after advertisers continued to flee his program, raising the question of whether his absence will be permanent? how should each have been handled and what can we learn from them? i gave my two cents this week about united on facebook. nearly 100,000 people have viewed it. here's an excerpt. >> this thing is now a [ bleep ] show. and they should be following lanny davis' edict of telling it early, telling it all, and telling it yourself. hey, ceo of united, mr. munoz, don't use words like re-accomodate and don't send out an e-mail to your staff as recently as last night saying, the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied chicago aviation security officers. the only thing you should be doing right now is saying, boy, did we [ bleep ] up. man, are we sorry about this. and you know what, we're going to reconsider, we're going be to be the first airline to reconsider whether we will exercise our right to overbook flights. we're going to take the lead in that respect and restore the friendly skies. that's why advice, united. i evoked lanny davis' name. his books include "truth to tell tell it early tell it all tell it yourself notes from my white house education" he knows where he speaks his clients include martha stewart, penn state, former senator trent lott, the washington red kins and a slough of others. i invoked your names and said this is not out of lanny's playbook. >> thanks for the plug, firstful all and secondly, i would like to make full disclosure that michael smerconish has never called me for advice so he's doing well so far. >> not yet. >> i would like to start -- >> talk to me about united. another full disclosure, i reached out to the pr department at united and asked them for some advice and perspective so that i could figures out whether or not they should be the textbook case of how to do everything wrong. i knew there was something that i should know from them to explain. and i was unfortunately unable to connect. let me at least start with the rule is a little differently than my mantra you were nice to quote. number one, mr. munoz did not tell all the facts and did not tell the truth. now let's assume i do assume as an honest mistake, but he didn't start with the facts. there was no overbooking problem. and what they did is replace people who were already paid in their seats with crew members. and that wasn't their first factual accurate explanation. so they didn't tell the truth. honest mistake, let's assume. secondly, now we know they didn't tell the truth and we all know it, they should have put all the facts out. the final thing is when you apologize, as mr. munoz tried to do, on "good morning america" there is no "but" after the words i'm sorry. you say i'm sorry. we will fix the problem. and here are all the facts. they've done none of those. i'm sorry i don't have their perspective, i tried, but this is one of the textbook cases that now replaces exxon in the spill in alaska that was always my textbook example of how to get everything wrong, now united has replaced that one. >> sean spicer at the white house, he violated the cardinal rule of trying to compare something, anything, to hitler, there are no comparison to hitler or the holocaust. i thought that when he was given a mulligan he had an opportunity to stop it in his tracks but he mishandled that as well. roll the tape. >> hitler didn't even sink to the level of using chemical weapons. what did you mean by that? >> i think when you come to sarin gas, there was no -- he was not using the gas on his own people the same way that assad is doing. there was clearly -- i understand. thank you. i appreciate that. there was not, in the -- he brought him in to -- to the holocaust center, i understand that, but in the way that assad used them where he went into towns, dropped them down into the middle of towns it was brought so the use of it. i appreciate the clarification. that was not the intent. >> i watched that in real time and just wanted to say stop the fight. you're doing yourself more harm. to his credit, unlike united, it didn't go on for a period of days. that afternoon he came on with wolf, here on cnn, and completely fessed up. analyze that. >> look, spicer is a special case. when you are so nasty for so long to so many people, and when i mean nasty, i don't care about political differences or politics, he works with president trump, he has to do his best as press secretary, mike mccurry who was the press secretary to president clinton, i think the best press secretary in american history, but i'm biased because he taught me everything i know was a nice guy. he didn't insult reporters. he didn't shake his head and speak nasty to reporters. much less about political opponents. he's a hatchet man from the republican national committee. he did a good job being a hatchet man but when you're press secretary and you make as mistake like that you say i'm sorry, it's in the context of a nasty guy. so crisis management is about having credibility, likability, people give you some slack when you say "i'm sorry" not just because you say the words as he did on "wolf blitzer" but there's a context you believe the words. because of his history of the way he is disrespectful to reporters, much less anybody that disagrees with him like a democrat, you don't give him any slack and i don't give him any slack. he's in the wrong job and should go somewhere else. >> lanny, i think it is one of -- it's probably as difficult, if not more difficult than the presidency itself, i have to say, and now all of a sudden i'm going to defend him, he doesn't return my calls anymore, but i dealt with him during the course of the campaign. i thought he was always a decent and ameble guy. i have to push back on the idea he doesn't get a chance for corrective action because he's a nasty guy. i don't find him to be that way. that's what i want to say. >> i heard that about him. i've never met him. i've heard that about him. when he's on camera in the press room and during the campaign, there's no way to describe him about political differences, i don't care if he's a republican or conservative or working for donald trump, he comes across nasty. there have been so many times in that press room where i think of michael mccurry, who was always firm, tough, disagreement, but respectful. this guy is not respectful. so there's no reason to give him slack. >> come on, all right. i promoted this as all three issues. very quick, give me the bottom line on o'reilly, his audience isn't abandoning him, so what's the metric by which this thing ought to be judged? >> his own self-dignity. i helped bill with personal advice because i've been on his show, he's been respectful i said to him you can be angry and disregard what has happened or you can tell the audience i get that i did something wrong and i'm moving on and focusing on my family. now, the person that's representing him right now is the best in the business, taught me everything i know. i believe it's mark. for some reason, the angry bill o'reilly is trying to solve a crisis that's a lot more important than his audience and his show. the crisis is himself. and his family. and that's where i would advise him go back to basics. whatever happened, you have hurt people. you need to just simply address that you've hurt people. you don't want to hurt people. you're sorry for that. you want to move on. if he did that, rather than the angry bill o'reilly which we're seeing, he might have a chance to recover. >> thank you, lanny. appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook comments like this one. it's not spicer's fault his boss is horrible and dropped sandbags on him. i do fought hault him for not s up to potus and spreading his bs. i didn't want this to be a partisan conversation. i think on a human level he's a decent die with an awfully tough job. sean, i don't think you deserve the defense i'm providing you. you better return some phone calls. back in a sec. you have access to the right information at the right moment. ♪ ♪ and when you filter out the noise, it's easy to turn your vision into action. ♪ ♪ it's your trade. e*trade. start trading today at etrade.com getting heartburn doesn't mean i means i take rolaids®. rolaids® goes to work instantly neutralizing 44% more acid than tums® for fast, powerful relief of your worst heartburn. i trust my rolaids®. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. full coverage foundation.r from l'oreal. super-lightweight. pro formula. really lasts. but if forever doesn't last forever, just cover and conceal. new infallible total cover from l'oreal paris new roundup for lawns has arrived to put unwelcome lawn weeds to rest. so draw the line. roundup for lawns is formulated to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming a single blade of grass. draw the line with roundup for lawns. without harming a single blade of grass. hey, searching for a great used yeah! you got it. just say show me millions of used cars for sale at the all new carfax.com. i don't want one that's had a big wreck just say, show me cars with no accidents reported pretty cool i like it that's the power of carfax® find the cars you want, avoid the ones you don't plus you get a free carfax® report with every listing start your used car search at carfax.com thank you so much for watching and for following me on facebook and twitter. this is a facebook comment. at what point is everyone going to realize michael smerconish is in bed with trumpy? clearly he's being paid by trumpy. nobody can be this blind to reality and corruption. some days i get blasted from the left and sometimes i get blasted from the right. hit me with another one. >> i wish smerconish would stop pretending he's not fully committed to the republican party. hit me with another one. don't defend spicer, michael. no, no, no. you are uniform in your criticisms this week, ladies and gentlemen. i'll see you here again next weekend. ing home don't stick ar. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. but shouldn't it be about firsts?d in zeros. and seconds... how about adding a third? we think there's a bajillion ways to measure success. and whether you have hundreds or millions... we think you deserve the financial freedom to sleep like this at night. this is the new success story. and at t-i-a-a, we're with you. start today at t-i-a-a dot org. i just want to find a used car without getting ripped off. you could start your search at the all-new carfax.com that might help. show me the carfax. now the car you want and the history you need are easy to find. show me used trucks with one owner. pretty cool. 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