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the presiding officer: the senator from ohio. mr. brown: thank you, mr. president. i ask unanimous consent to dispense with the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. brown: and ask for unanimous consent also to speak for up to ten minutes as if in in morning business. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. brown: thank you. earlier this afternoon, mr. president, i appeared with senator blunt, my republican friend from missouri, in front of senator rockefeller's commerce committee to talk about our bipartisan legislation with manufacturing hubs that would promote new technologies to make our country a leader. let me illustrate by this, mr. president. along the ohio turnpike from toledo to lorain to cleveland to sort of akron to youngstown, much of the auto industry grew up along that turnpike from glass that would go for wields in -- windshields in toledo, steel in lorain and cleveland for the fenders and thehoods in much of the car to rubber in akron for tires, the world's leading tire manufacturer, to assembly in youngstown where today the chevy cruz is made, you see this huge plant that big letters, chevy cruze, if you're not from ohio and may not have seen one, just expansiveness of this plant is pretty remarkable. ought oation were made or assembled all along this turnpike. mr. president, the reason this matters in dngs -- in addition to why it matters in the state of connecticut and other places is not just that the auto industry and the supply chain create jobs but what happens when an industry sort of locates with a critical mass in a community. because toledo, ohio, had with the auto industry had huge glass manufacturing, the university of toledo had scientists that worked in material science and glass manufacturing. today as a result while we don't make quite as much glass in toledo as we did for autos, today toledo is one of the top two or three largest centers for solar energy manufacturing. or to akron which used to be the center of the world for tire manufacturing, not so much, although goodyear corporate headquarters is the there and a lot of research but in partnership with the university of akron with the scientists that were processing and-reaching and innovating in rubber and tires, now polymer development and manufacture akron is one of the leaders in the world, in the country and the world. so what this means, the lesson we learn from this is what senator blunt and i were talking about. in ohio and missouri manufacturing is the ticket to the middle class. we know too long washington made choices that biased finance over manufacturing. left manufacturing behind. bad trade deals, not failure to enforce trade laws, taxes that didn't work for manufacturing, and kind of backing off focus on innovation and technology. so we see in communities like lordstown and community and dayton live with the consequences and between 2000 and 2010, 60,000 plants closed in this country, five million manufacturing jobs were lost. since the auto rescue and the aggressive trade enforcement from president obama, he's been more aggressive on trade enforcement through the commerce department and through the international trading commission than any -- international trade commission than any of his predecessors in either party. but since 2010 we've seen a beginning of growth coming back in manufacturing. not nearly making up anything close to the five million jobs lost or the 60,000 plants closed but the importance of manufacturing and not just because it's in my state and my state is number three in the country in production, in manufacturing, only texas twice our population and california, three times our population, make more than we do. but the importance of manufacturing is the multiplier effect more than any other industry in our country. manufacturing for every dollar spent in manufacturing, $1.48 is spent in the economy. the wind turbine supply chain or the chemical supply chain or anything we manufacturing in this country. now, the -- but what's holding us back is this, we never consciously follow this but this sort of innovate here, make it there syndrome where we still are have the best scientists, the best engineers and researchers and the best universities, whether it's -- stores at the university of connecticut or cleveland at case western or dayton or cincinnati, we have the best universities, the best researchers but too often we do the innovation, we do the discovery, we do the experimentation that leads to products and then we offshore and make the products there. let me give you an example about why that doesn't work and what does work. there's a small community in ohio, menster, ohio, near watch atinneda north of dayton. i visited there some time ago. it's the largest yogurt manufacturer in north america. and when i went in there, they had just made it more efficient. in the past, their supplier had delivered little plastic cups to this yogurt manufacturer, you go into the plant, they had these big vats of fermented milk with yogurt and they would squirt it into the cups and seal it and package it. a young industrial engineer and a people that worked on the line for a decade or so said we can do this better and instead of bringing the plastic cups in from a supplier, they simply did something simple for an engineer, not so simple for me, they took plastic rolls and they fed plastic sheet into a machine that was about the whole assembly line was maybe 80 feet long, and the plastic would be heated and then extruded and then cooled slowly and the yogurt would be squirted into the plastic cup and sealed and sent. now, the noasks to be place on -- innovation to be place on the shop floor. when you develop a product and wherever you manufacture it, the innovation, the product egg innovation in the process innovation, meaning how you make it, the process of making it as they did dannon yogurt and packaging and the improvement of the product takes place on the shop floor. that's why this is so important and this legislation revitalize american manufacturing act of 2013 creates a network that would position the u.s. as the world's leader. we've already done something like this in youngstown, ohio. first in the country, mentioned by the president in his state of the union message -- message. it's called america makes. and it's in conjunction with the university of missouri, in conjunction with businesses and universities, eastern gateway and youngstown state in the mahoning valley. this tech belt along there. they do something called 3-d printing which is hard to conceptualize until you see it but it is something today to look for in the future. and we know how to make things in this country, we have seen with some federal funding matched by $40 million of private funds, it's making youngstown a world leader in 3-d manufacturing technology already. we need to build on this momentum. that's why our legislation is so important. it's supported by manufacturing associations, the semiconductor groups, we've seen other countries beginning ginn to mimic it and imitate it. and we have something here that will help america lead the world. in concluding before yielding to the senator from oregon, think of this in terms of a teaching hospital where you have a great teaching hospital who want at the university of cincinnati or ohio state. or case in cleveland or toledo. and these teaching hospitals where research and development and innovation g innovation are having with great doctors and great researchers and often what they produce, what they come up with is commercialized locally and you build a critical mass in that field. in some kind of scientific medical field, you built billed that expertise in that region. that's what we want to do with these manufacturing hubs like youngstown,. where youngstown, we will see all kinds of job creation coming out of this that will make youngstown the vital stay sti it's been in much of its history and we want to see it become in the future. it's good for our country, it's good for manufacturing, it's good for families, it kept -- that earn their living from manufacturing. it will be particularly good for our communities. i yield the floor. mr. merkley: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from oregon. mr. merkley: i ask to speak for up to ten minutes as in if in morning business. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. merkley: i ask unanimous consent for my intern, bruce layman to have the privileges of the floor for the balance of the day. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. merkley: thank you very much. i rise, mr. president, to address an issue that should be of concern to all americans and that is the advice and consent function of the u.s. senate regarding nominations. this is the critical check envisioned by our founders in which the president has the power to nominate for the executive branch positions and for judicial nominees, and in the senate held responsible to provide a check to make sure there are not outrageous nominees that are placed in positions and that is the advice and consent function. which throughout our history has basically been a simple majority function with very rare exception. now, this issue comes up at this moment because two weeks ago, a minority of this body in the senate would not allow there to be a vote on whether or not to confirm mel watt. they did that by preventing there being enough votes to close debate. so that blockade was basically put in place without respecting, if you will, the fact that mel watt is highly qualified for his position at the federal housing finance agency, the position he would hold, and giving the entire senate the ability to weigh in about whether or not they agreed with that judgment, the judgment of the president that mel watt was well qualified. and in the same week, this body also blocked an up-and-down vote on patricia millett, who was a nominee for the d.c. circuit court, and on this occasion it wasn't because folks said that she wasn't qualified, they said instead, we don't want to put anymore of president obama's nominees on to the d.c. circuit court. because we want it to be dominated by the judges who were confirmed when president bush was president. and then just yesterday, this pattern of blockading up-and-down votes on nominees continued with the minority filibustering, blocking the closing of debate on cornelia pillard. and, again, highly qualified individual. an argument wasn't made that there was some exceptional circumstance in her background that left her unprepared for this position. the argument was simply made, we don't want to let the president put any judges on this d.c. circuit court. well, that's an extreme concern, and i must say that it has caused folks who have been scholars in this area to look at it. norm ornstein of the american enterprise institute basically said that's ridiculous for the minority to block up-and-down votes. not on the basis that there's something wrong with their qualifications but just because they want to take away the president's ability and constitutional responsibility to nominate individuals to fill vacancies. so this obstruction exercised over the last, well, almost five years now has done significant damage to the court and it's done significant damage to the executive branch. it prevents qualified nominees to get an opportunity to have a vote on this floor so that they can, if they receive a simple majority vote of support, so that they can go to work on behalf of the american people, either in their executive branch capacity or addressing the huge backload in our judicial system. the u.s. senate has this advice and consent role which is a treasured responsibility, it's a weighty responsibility, and i think everyone in this body, i think all hundred senators could agree that under advice and consent, the senate must exercise a significant check on the quality of presidential nominees, whether for the courts or for the executive branch. the senate should vet nominees. the committees that are related to the particular positions should explore their background, they should hold a hearing, they should ask tough questions. they should debate the nominees and then once recommended on the floor of the senate, we should continue that vetting and debating process and then, having shared our insights on their background, we need to vote to confirm or reject. it should be on very rare exception, when there are extraordinary circumstances that make someone unworthy, that they should be blocked from having a final vote. advice and consent must not become block and destroy. but advice and consent has become block and destroy, and the senate nomination process is broken. a minority of one branch of government, the senate, should not be able to systematically undermine the other two branches of government, yet that is what we see today. president obama's district court nominees have waited on average more than twice as long as president george bush's nominees to be confirmed by the senate after being reported out of committee. so we have the challenge of getting up-and-down votes. we also have basically a process of dragging feet in order to make it more difficult to actually get to the votes on these individuals in the first place. for the circuit courts, that comparison is even worse. president obama's nominees have waited 3 1/2 times longer than the nominees of his predecessor, 3 1/2 times longer. the congressional research service notes that of the last five presidents, president obama is the only one to have his district and circuit court nominees wait on average more than six months for confirmati confirmation. so these delays in combination with ultimately denying the possibility to hold an up-or-down vote, to hold a final vote on whether to confirm or not confirm, they constitute a systematic undermining of the function of the other two branches of government. now, this was not envisioned in any possible way by the crafters of our constitution. they argued there should be three coequal branches. but this outcome in which the senate minority seeks to undermine an executive branch is inconsistent nominee -- is inconsistent with the constitutional design of coequal branches. they are not coequal if one branch can systematically undermine another. and in regard to the courts, this outcome in which the senate minority is seeking to ideologically pack the courts by having insisted on up-or-down votes for president bush's nominees and then blocking up-and-down votes on president obama's nominees, it politicizes our judicial system, it undermines the integrity of our court system. now, the senate has confronted this abuse of advice and consent three times in recent history. in 2005, the democratic minority was blocking up-and-down votes on a serious of president bush's nominees. they were doing the same thing that we see today. and a gang of 14 gathered together to debate this because essentially the republican majority said, if you don't quit blocking up-and-down votes on the president's nominees, we're going to change the rules and make it a simple majority. and out of this gang of 14 came a deal and the deal was that the democrats would, except under exceptional circumstances, not block a nominee and the counterpoint being that the republicans would not change the rules. so they got what they wanted, which was up-and-down votes without a rule change. well, that pledge that the democrats made was honored and subsequent nominees got their up-and-down votes. now, in january of this year, the democrats, in the reversal of positions, insisted that the republican minority quick blocking up-and-down -- quit blocking up-and-down votes on president obama's nominees. kind of a d'ivoir deja vu momeny the two parties were reversed. and out of that conversation, out of that dialogue in january came a promise from the republican minority leader of this body and he promised a return to the norms and traditions of the u.s. senate regarding nominations. and what are those norms and traditions? those norms and traditions are simple up-and-down votes with rare exception. but that promise was barely made. within weeks it was broken when we saw the first-ever filibuster of a defense secretary nominee. it just so happened ironically that the republican filibuster, first time in history of a defense nominee, was against one of their former colleagues, republican colleagues, chuck hagel. so the january promise was broken. this led to increasing tensions until july of this year when democratic and republican members met in the old senate chambers to privately share their concerns and a new deal was hammered out which is essentially that the executive nominees would get up-and-down votes. and that happened for a significant list of nominees. an up-and-down vote on richard cordray to be head of the consumer financial protection bureau, jenna mccarthy to be head of the e.p.a., nominees to fill the national labor relations board, nominee to head the alcohol, tobacco and firea firearms, nominee to head the ex-im bank, and shortly following thereafter, a nominee to be the u.s. ambassador to the united nations, samantha powers. and so that july deal held through a list of nominees until two weeks ago. and two weeks ago, this body blocked an up-or-down vote on mel watt. so we're right back where we were before. right back where we were. the promise made in january shattered. the promise made in july shattered. and the ability of this body to do its advice and consent responsibility shattered. this should be deeply troubling to all. and we must restore the ability of the senate to perform its responsibilities under the constitution to advise and consent. the senate with simple up-and-down votes will be a check on bad nominations by the president. i have voted against at least one of the president's nominees. i was prepared to vote against another here just a few weeks ago. the president withdrew that nominee so that vote wasn't necessary. but that was related to a judgment of the qualifications of an individual and whether they were a good fit for a particular position. it wasn't about trying to systematically undermine the executive branch and keep them from operating. that's essentially why we have up-and-down votes, is a check on unqualified individuals or a poor fit for a particular position. so in this area, in both the senate failure to do its job vis-a-vis judicial nominees and to do its job vis-a-vis executive nominees, we have created unequal branches of government. it is time, mr. president, to fix the broken senate in regard to nominations. it is time, mr. president, to restore the traditional role of the senate in evaluating nominations so that with nominees who are confirmed, they can go to work in the courts go, to work in the executive branch, to do the work that the citizens of the united states of america expect them to do on behalf of our nation. thank you, mr. president. and i yield the floor. mr. president, i note the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call: mr. schatz: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from hawaii. mr. schatz: mr. president, i ask unanimous consent to waive the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. schatz: mr. president, i ask unanimous consent to offer floor privileges to my staffer michael inaki for the remainder of the evening. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. schatz: thank you. i ask unanimous consent to speak for up to 15 minutes in morning business. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. schatz: thank you, mr. president. five days ago typhoon yolanda devastated the central philippines. as a category 5 supertyphoon, this was reportedly the strongest storm ever to make landfall anywhere in recorded history, sweeping away almost everything in its path. nearly 10 million people were impacted by this supertyphoon and tensions of thousands of homes were -- and tens of thousands of homes were destroyed. 80% to 90% of the homes in armuk city, the second-largest city in the lete province are gone. the stories of loss are shocking and heartbreaking. we don't yet know the full extent of the devastation that this typhoon has brought to the philippines. local authorities estimate as many as 10,000 people may be deadead in the lete province al. the state department has said that roughly 3,000 americans were impacted when the storm hivment ouhit.our embassy is coh u.s. agencies to locate these americans and bring them home. the u.s. and the philippines share a special bond rooted in strong cultural and historical ties between our two countries. in hawaii, where more than 197,000 filipinos have made their home, we know this bond well. our filipino community has been a part of the islands for more than 100 years, and many at home maintain close relationships with family and friends in the philippines. my deepest condolences go to those who have lost family and friends in this tragedy. although the storm is over, our work has just begun. millions of survivors are without clean drinking water, food, shelter, or power. rescue workers are attempting to reach isolated coastal communities but debris and downed power lines are blocking road access. the united states government is helping the philippines to recover. we have provided $20 million in humanitarian aid and deployed a disaster resistance -- excuse me, a disaster assistance team to help the philippine expert. they will help to assess the extent of the damage and determine what resources remain to be added. the united states aid office of the u.s. foreign disaster assistance has shipped relief supplies including shelter materials and high genic supplies to help around 10,000 feassments we're partnering with the united nations world food wd programme because close to 2.5 million people will need food assistance over the next six months. this aid will help to airlift 5 metric tons in emergency food to feed more than 20,000 children and 15,000 adults, providing immediate relief for the next four to five days. and it will bring more than 1,000 metric tons of rice to feed 60,000 people for a month. u.s. marines are on the ground. our military is helping to airlift relief supplies, conduct ariel damage assessments, and coordinate search and rescue operations. u.s. pacific command has forces in manila to help deliver food and water to the impacted areas. and the george washington carry strike group and its 5,000 sailors are expected in the area soon to provide humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. for those still searching for displaced or missing loved ones, i urge you to contact the philippine national red cross or the national disaster risk reduction and management council operations center. google has also launched the typhoon yolanda person finder. americans can also visit cnn's ireport web site. the challenge before the filipino people is great but the philippines is a resilient nation and a true american ally, and they need our help. please donate. i'm proud of our local organizations in hawaii collecting donations to help survivors and the families of victims. the philippine consulate in honolulu, the filipino chamber of commerce, filipino community center, congress of asighian organizations and kukua organizations have all stepped up. a full list of organizations is available on my web site, scha schatz.senate.gov. you can also text a.e.i.i.d. to 80108 t give a $10 donation. you can text aid to 80108 if you'd like to give $10 to the relief efforts. i would like to especially recognize and thank all of the women and men of the united states embassy in manila, usaid mission in manila, the state department, u.s. aid here in the district of columbia and the united states pacific command for their great efforts in coordinating our ongoing response. today i introduced a resolution expressing the support of the united states senate for the victims of the typhoon along with several of my colleagues. i thank senators menendez, durbin, cardin, rubio, hirono, tom udall, boxer and begich for cosponsoring this llings resolution. i ask unanimous consent that the text of the resolution be included for the record sme. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. schatz: as the philippines begin to recover from this tragedy, i ask that we all pledge together to work with them, and when they rebuild their communities, rest assured they will emerge stronger than ever. i yield the floor and suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call: quorum call: the presiding officer: the senator from alaska. mr. begich: thank you, mr. president. i'd like to speak for ten minutes as if in morning business. the presiding officer: senator, we are in a quorum call. mr. begich: i ask to vacate the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: i'd like to speak for up to ten minutes as if in morning business, mr. president. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: mr. president, before i make my comments regarding manufacturing and job creation in america and alaska, i'd like to say i know my friend from hawaii was here earlier, senator schatz, talking about the important resolution that's been introduced, and i was happy to and honored to be able to cosponsor regarding the typhoon in the philippines and alaska. we have over 20,000 filipinos living in our state, an incredible group of individuals, people i've known in the business world, as individuals, family members. the devastation sun believable. if you look at the photos and see the devastation of the typhoon and the pwabgts it has on -- and the impacts it has on families. even though it's thousands of miles away, in alaska, we feel it, we see it, our friends there, our filipino have many relatives on the island, and it is unbelievable the impact. i was in alaska this weekend and met with members of the leadership of the filipino community as well as members from the red cross and others to see what we can do from an alaska perspective because alaska knows what disasters are like from earthquakes to floods. we seem to have them quite often and we though the impacts this can have on families. i'm very honored to be able to support the resolution that my friend from hawaii introduced, but also recognizing the alaska 20,000 filipino community members that are suffering and thinking about their families and friends overseas. and we want to do everything we can. i know our country is there and ready and moving a lot of resources to assist. so i just want to put that on the record and just my condolences to families who have lost loved ones but also to alaskans who are grieving for friends and family that may have been lost in the typhoon. we're going to do everything we can. i know personally i have done my own contributions, whatever i can to assist in anything to move forward and bring resources to the islands. mr. president, i also came down today to talk on the floor about the need for additional job creation. we have already this first ten months of this year created 1.9 million new jobs, higher than last year at the same time, which is a good start but more needs to be done. i know senator coons and senator durbin and others have been discussing manufacturing jobs in america initiative. in particular we're talking about skills necessary to succeed in today's economy. the skills americans need to land and keep good manufacturing jobs. there used to be a time when a bright kid in this country could work hard in school, graduate with a high school diploma and work in a factory. he or she could make a decent living, a living wage, enough to raise a family, own a home and think about the future of their kids. those days are long gone. unfortunately, today's factories and plants don't look like they used to. the level of technical expertise needed to operate some of the machinery is pretty high. that's why i've made a career of technical education a priority. we need to have options for bright kids after high school or that midcareer worker looking to shift gears. my own state of alaska is already a leader in career technical education, c.t.e.. as these programs continue to innovate and change across the country, alaska is in the forefront. i see it when i travel around the state from career pathways and high schools to creative programs in the university of alaska system. my state is the leader in career and technical education. to address these issues, i've introduced a bill investing in innovation, or otherwise called i-3, which takes a look at what's happening in our local schools and puts resources to what's working. it sports expanse programs that are -- it supports program helping improve student achievement. this bill requires 25% of the money to go to local rural communities, as so many programs sometimes forget our small and rural communities not only in alaska but throughout this country. i've introduced a career readiness package, legislation focused on career and technical education. one of the bills in this package is the counseling for career choice act. this bill will help fund stakeholders in developing comprehensive career counseling models that emphasizes guiding students to productive careers. our counselors are in unique positions to help expose and guide our students to postsecondary opportunities, to help prepare them for high-demand careers. this bill makes sure our school counselors have the resources they need to emphasize all types of postsecondary education, not just the traditional four-year degree. it focuses on opportunities like apprenticeships, certification programs, associates degrees and of course four year degrees. it makes sure business, economic development and industry leaders are at the table providing information on 0 postsecondary training opportunities and career trends, basically making sure we match what we're teaching to what's available in the market not only today and into the future. our students need the best teachers and the best facilities. i also have legislation focused on career technical education, c.t.e.. professional development for teachers and principals. another career readiness bill provides funding for, to make sure we are modernizing our c.t.e. facilities. we know that students who are involved in career and technical education programs are engaged in their future careers. we have to keep making -- we have to keep making sure what our students learn is relevant to the real world. we must align our education system with the in-demand careers to fill those jobs in that pipeline, and we must keep our students engaged. if we're going to compete in the 21st century like we did in the 20th century, we need to make sure our students have the very best skills, skills that are tailored to the 21st century economy. career and technical education is the best approach. in my opinion, to give students those skills. so i'm a big fan of manufacturing jobs for america, initiatives led by senator coons and several of my colleagues. america's manufacturing sector has enormous potential to create new jobs and speed up our economy and economic recovery. these are good jobs and they spin off into even more jobs. according to the national association of manufacturers, every manufacturing job we create adds one and a half jobs to the local economy. so let's move forward. let's pass these bills to help with job training and career facilities and readiness and let's do everything we can to get our manufacturing sector running full speed ahead. mr. president, before i conclude my remarks, let me just add, i know there's a lot of debates we have on the floor, you know, in the community we're talking about health care, we're talking about national defense authorization bill. we're going to talk about a compounding bill here. but at the end of the day what americans, what alaskansdom me on a regular basis after four and a half days back in alaska, it's about what are we doing to create jobs for the future not only for people today in the work environment but the kids in the future who will be in the work environment. this legislation and many other pieces that have been introduced in this package help lead this economy and continue to lead this economy. we have to remind ourselves where we were this year, this month. we created over 200,000 jobs. the first month i came here when i was sworn in, the economy was in a tailspin. we had lost over 700,000 jobs. so we've been in the positive trend line for several, several months here. but we have more to do, in an area that i think is an incredible opportunity not only for alaska but for all across this country is how do we improve our manufacturing and ensure that young people are ready for the 21st century. i appreciate the time, and again to my friend, senator coons, for all the work he's doing to bring manufacturing to the forefront and to all the colleagues who have been coming to the floor to talk about an important, important piece of legislation to create jobs and improve our economy for the long term. mr. president, i'd like to yield the floor at this time and note an absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call: quorum call: the presiding officer: the senator from alaska. mr. begich: i ask the vacating of the quorum call. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: i ask unanimous consent the senate proceed to a period of morning business with senators permitted to speak up to 10 minutes each. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: i ask unanimous consent the senate proceed to the consideration of s. res. 293. the clerk: senate resolution 293, designating the week beginning on november 18, 2013, as national tribal colleges and universities week. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding to the measure? without objection, the senate will proceed. mr. begich: i ask unanimous consent the resolution be agreed to, the preamble be agreed to, the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: mr. president, i ask unanimous consent the senate proceed to the immediate consideration of senate res 294 submitted earlier today by senators landrieu, inhofe and others. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: senate resolution 294, expressing support for the goals of national adoption day and national adoption month. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding to the measure? without objection, the senate will proceed. mr. begich: i further ask the resolution be agreed to, the preamble be agreed to, the motion to reconsider be considered made and laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: i ask unanimous consent the senate proceed to the consideration of senate con resolution 25 submitted earlier today. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: senate concurrent resolution 25 authorizing the use of emancipation hall in the capitol visitors' center for activities associated with the ceremony to award the congressional gold medal to native american code talkers. the presiding officer: is there objection to proceeding with the measure? without objection, the senate will proceed. mr. begich: i ask unanimous consent the concurrent resolution be agreed to, the motion to reconsider be laid upon the table with no intervening action or debate. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: i ask unanimous consent that when the senate completes its business today, it adjourn until 9:30 a.m. thursday, november 14, 2013, and following the prayer and the pledge, the morning business be deemed expired, the journal of the proceedings be approved to date and the time for the two leaders be reserved for their use later in the day and that following any leaders remarks, the senate be in a period of morning business for two hours with senators permitted to speak therein for up to ten minutes each with the time equally divided and controlled between the two leaders or their designees with the republicans controlling the first half and the minority controlling the final half. following morning business, the senate proceed to the motion on the adoption to motion to proceed on the pharmaceutical drug and compounding bill. finally, the senate recess from 1:00 p.m. until 2:15 p.m. to allow for caucus meetings. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. begich: the vote on adoption 69 of the motion to proceed to the compounding bill is expected to be a voice vote. if there is no further business to come before the senate, i ask that it adjourn until the previous order -- under the previous order. the presiding officer: the senate stands adjourned until 9:30 a.m. tomorrow. since the outbreak the fda had that. they have been involved more heavily in inspection and finding problems with others. this law is clarified and creates a new voluntary category allowing some of the manufacturers to register themselves and submit themselves to more scrutiny particular -- similar to the kind that a traditional drug manufacturer undergo. >> who are the bill's main sponsors in the senate? >> tom harkin, the head of the health committee, and lamar alexander, who is the republican ranking member of the committee. it's got wide spread support. you don't really have a division between the parties here and that senator alexander, like many other republican senators comes from a state that is badly affected be i the outbreak. he has a very personal and strong connection in trying to make sure. >> republican senator of louisiana has an amendment that deals with health care. how does it tie to the bill? what is he hoping to do? >> in large part, the big picture he's drawing to more attention to what he sees in obama's health care law. the affordable care act. this is something he's been doing to a number of bills over the last few months trying to put an amendment and away on the bills to bring attention. the specific piece of the amendment he has here has to do with members of congress and the staff in which -- and those who might be exempted from the requirement. he's making the point that people should not exempt themselves from this requirement of the health care law because it show the hypocrisy of those in the law making. >> and likely his amendment won't be part of the final senate bill? >> i guess it is possible. is how much of this amendment he uses as a procedural delay and at this point, it wouldn't be that much of a delay. whether this bill passed. early in the week and dragged all the way to the weekend and mostly -- -- >> the bill passed the house and often -- said senate cleared the way for tighter restriction on compounding pharmacy and debt. how about in the senate if it passes the white house expected to sign it? >> yeah. this is a bill has more support than any bill you see in congress these days. it passed without even a vote in the house. showing nothing to get pass and nothing happen in washington. t one of the few things that overwhelming support. and it was 97 in the senate. and the president -- >> following him on twitter. you can read his articles. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. the obama administration announced today that over 6,000 people have signed up health insurance since the online marketplaces opened on october 1st. of those 79,000 enrolled on state-run health insurance marketplaces. and 27,000 signed up on the federal website healthcare.gov. you're watching c-span2 with politics and public affair. weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate. on weeknights watch public policy events. and latest non-fiction authors and books on booktv. you can see past program and get our schedule on our witness. you can join in the conversation on social media sites. the senate homeland security committee healed conformation hearing today on john southern. the president's nominee to be homeland security. it's on c-span 3 tonight at 8:00 eastern. here's a look at the exchange between the nominee and senator john mccain. >> the predecessor -- i want to talk about that. your predecessor stated frequently the border is more secure than ever citing the reduction and apprehensions as a proof of that progress being made. she said it for a number of years. do you agree with that statement? >> senator, i have seen the same numbers. i noted that the numbers are going down. might be a recent trendup ward. one of the things if i'm confirmed, i'm going look at is how we should define border security and whether those are an accurate refleck of border security. >> in reality, over the last two years there's been a 20% increase in apprehensions along the border. now, when your predecessor made the statements, i used to just get -- i can't tell you the frustration i felt. because i knew and those of us who are familiar with the border. the real reason why the app -- apprehensions went down is because the economy. now the economy is getting stronger apprehension is up. if they are up 20% it means the border are less secure. as we work to -- eight of us to complete this comprehension immigration rule, which is stalled, as you know in the house. and one of the major reason it's stalled because of the lack of confidence in border security on not only the numbers here, but on the members of the house of representatives. so for years the secretary of homeland security said, well, apprehensions are down -- are up. so that the border is more secure because reduction and apprehensions. now they are up. and so here we are faced with a a situation where the border is still not secure. when we were trying to develop this legislation, we went time after time to the department of homeland security to get what was needed to get the border secure. what measures need to be taken. we never got them from the department of homeland security. never. we had to go directly to the border com and got some good information we concluded in the legislation. specific sector by sector, the technology that was needed. can you tell this committee that you will not repeat what happened to us the frustration that we experienced. and i want to know what, from you, what is required for us have 90% effective control on the border. can you assure this committee of that? >> senator,ly commit to you to working with you -- >> i'm not asking for working with me. i want to know if you will give this committee the exact metrics that are needed sector by sector so we can obtain 90% effectiveness on the border. not working with me. aning yes or no, please. >> i decline -- >> i'm not asking for inclination. i'm asking for yes or no answer. i don't think it's a lot to ask. we have our responsibilities to ask here. one of the way is to have a secured border. unless we get the right information from your -- from you and your bureaucracy. we're not able to ascertain how we can secure our border. so as much as i appreciate you. unless you can tell me if you can give the information the committee has a right to have. i cannot support your nomination. >> i'm inclined -- >> i'm not asking -- >> so you will -- let the record show you will not give a yes or no answer. therefore,ly not support your nomination until i get the yes answer. this committee, and members of congress, particularly those of us on the border have the right to have that information. it is our responsibility and our obligation to our constituents. i have constituents in my state every night there are people who are crossing the border illegal. i have constituents that every day drug smugglers going across their property and homes. so they certainly have a right as citizens to know what measures need to be taken in order to have a 90% effect control of the boarder. i ask you one more time, will you or will you not give that information to this committee? >> yeah -- i've been through the process enough to know a senator asks a question like that and somebody after wards is going tell me six reasons why i shouldn't do it. in those instances i have said, senator, i think you know this. the senator need it. we try to get to the same place. let's give it to him. so before i commit unequivocally to your question, and part of me very much wants to do that, i think i need to talk to dhs to better understand the issue. i have read the letter in february, and i'm strong lip inclient -- inclined to give you what you need. i think you know that, senator, from my track record. >> i have an obligation to the citizen that i represent. right now, in their view, our border is not secure. without your cooperation, in informing the congress of the measures what need to be taken nor to ensure 90% effectivenesses. then i can't serve my constituents. i hope you understand that. >> senator, you'll have my cooperation. i promise that. >> i'm not asking for cooperation. i'm asking for information. >> let me just -- several things -- let me just make a suggestion. months ago earlier this year, we spent a lot of time border patrol. i urge you earlier you if confirmed see if we can't head down there and spend some time especially in arizona and eastern part of texas. i think it would be helpful. >> can i thank the chairman for traveling. i thank the doctor who was traveling spending time down there. both you understand the frustration my constituents feel when they live in an environment where -- and it seems to me that an obligation to the congress of the united states would be to provide us with information that we couldn't get when we were putting the comprehensive immigration reform together and had to go to the border control to get the required information. i was told it was because the white house had said that the department of homeland security shouldn't provide us with that information. but how can we carry out our functions of oversight if we don't get the kind of information we need to make the decisions that this committee is responsible to make? president obama tapped janet yellen to be chairman of the federal reserve. holding her conformation hearing tomorrow starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern live on c-span 3. i never saw anything like it when i landed. it was broken commitment. there was bodies all over the place. they hadn't yet to bury anybody. either the japanese or the american marines. there were bodies without arms, without heads, completely e vis rated. there's a smell that you'll never get over to this day, when i drive by a cemetery, especially if they're using recycled water, i really think i can smell the dead bodies. >> one of the reason one of the big reasons is they would come from -- and fry 1,000 miles they had to go over hiroshima to ghetto tokyo. hiroshima by radar and have planes there that can shoot down the injured b29 when they were returning. it got so bad a friend of mine, by the name of general randall, who was there. he told me they had submarines almost every 50 miles between tokyo to pick up the fliers. >> the battle told by the men who were there. saturday at 5:00 eastern. part of american history tv this weekend on c-span 3. interior secretary kicked off the conference talking about the administration's priorities engaging with travel communities. [applause] >> thank you, jody. wow, what a wonderful room here, and thank you for gracing us with your presence and gracing us with your flags. the flags of your proud nations. my favorite corridor to walk down at the department of interior the affairs corridor. it's lined with the flag of your nations. it is really truly a pleasure and a privilege to host you here at the department of the inor it your. this is my first. it's perhaps the fifth for all of you. and certainly the fifth for my boss, the president of the united, who is committed to indian country in every turn. and as joe i dimensioned it's a historic day with 13 of the cabinet colleagues participating. they are leaders just as you are. they are people just as you are. they want to hear from you. they want to get to know you. they want to understand your issues. i hope you are open with them today and make sure you share what is important to you as you gate chance to interact with them. i did grow up in the pacific northwest. and the pacific northwest is a region of our country where the triable presence is very strong. but i will tell you that one of the most influential moments of my young life, when i was nearly graduating from high school, there was a critical decision that came down to the state of washington that was around triable fishing rights. and treaty obligations and your friend, billy frank, my friend, billy frank, along with other triable leaders took all the way to the supreme court within the state of washington a desire to have the state and the federal government uphold triable treaty rights. there was a very important landmark decision known locally as the bolt decision. i saw firsthand just how hard it was for tribes to uphold their rights and how important it was to them and how the community reacted. i'm not a stranger to indian country as a business person. i was a banker for 19 years with a bank in the northwest called rainer bank which subsequently got bought and sold multiple times. through that transition, i had an opportunity to do business up in alaska with native corporation in northwest alaska. and understood some of the critical things that were important to that region, that native corporation. indigenous businesses like reindeer horn or jade mining. oil and gas activities and supporting activities on the north slope. mining through the red dog mine, and how shareholder employment was so important. along with maintaining cultural identity. as a banker, sometimes behind the scenes reviewed many loan applications from the indian tribe. doing expanding their tourism resources in-house boat business on lake roosevelt. later as i had children had an opportunity rent from them and have one of my best family vacations. also the tribe where we supported in theback that i worked for, a loan for a heritage center back in the early '90s. i appreciate how important economic development is, but also how different tribes are from one another. so you have blessed me in so many ways in my now seven months and one day in this job. my first week of the job -- came in and not only met with me but bestowed blessings upon me which meant a great cancel to me. i had an opportunity address the n cia in june which was great. gave me a sense of the power of your leadership working collectively together. and then in august, when i was up in alaska, i was welcomed by the alaska federation of native to a meeting along with visits to triable lands in alaska and the lower 48. i hope to do more and more of that over the course of my time in this job. the president of the united states, and you'll hear from him later on today, is very committed to making real and meaningful progress in indian country. i'm happy to be part of the cabinet. it's -- timing is everything; right. i came in at an interesting time as far as budget is concerned. i look at predecessor and some of the things they faced. i don't think you as leaders in your triable community. we think long-term. you think the future of the culturals that you represent, of the lands you represent. you think about generations forward as do i. we are faced with a crazy budget system. no regular budget since 2012. sometimes only months at the sometime. sequestration, which is hit indian country as hard or harder than any other part of the federal government through the sequestration period that we've both been enduring over the course of the last -- well, pretty much since i started in the job seven months ago. then just last month, 16 days of the completely wasteful government shut down. we have to get back to regular order in the budget. and i know when i speak to individual members of congress, they care about indian country. and your voices to them are very important. when it comes down actually getting a budget done, they aren't delivering. we need to hold them accountable to that and certainly will be your partners in that effort. so the president's top priority and my top priority are strengthen the nation-to-nation relationships we have together. we respect the inherit sovereignty of triable nations, and work with you on the north stars of self-govern mans and self-determination. knowing you have a better idea of what decisions you need to make to strengthen your triable community. we want to be your partner in that. i will also say i'm not alone in this effort. i have a fantastic team. a team that was asemibled largely by my predecessor and friend ken sal czar. he'll be making an appearance in my office. i hope you give him a hug and let him know you appreciate his work. i appreciate everything he did and the team he left me with. starting with kevin wash burn, the assistant secretary ever indian affair from the chickasaw nation in oklahoma that was assisted by larry roberts. deputy assistant secretary of indian affairs. and sara mike black, the director of the bureau of indian affairs. and terrific resource for you in so many ways. russell, you stepped up as acting director of the bureau of indian education. himself an educator and from the navajo nation. lennie, who heads up the office of indian water right and has done a terrific job on that and so many areas. hilary, are you out there? she's on maternity leave. she's goofing off with a new baby. she's solicitor for the interior department. and she is from the navajo nation, and does a tour -- terrific job for us in the challenging job of solicitor. mike connor, who i hope you know. he's an expert in indian water rights. has been for years. she's commissioner of bureau of reclamation. she's one little step away from becoming deputy secretary of the department of interior. if we can get the senate to vote on him. he's out of committee waiting for vote. he'll be deputy secretary for interior and serve all of you and the american people very well. laura davis is chief of staff to me. my right arm and so many ways. and a real proponent of the issues of indian country and a real resource for me as i get up to speed quickly in this job. and convinced logan. i think you are out there, thank you. he was nominating more than a year ago now to serve as the office -- to lead the office of special trustee. we hope the senate will take up the nomination so we can get him over the finish line to serve you. and the white house team. you have heard from jodi i. and a terrific resource. and the first person that greeted me as i was walking to my first days in my conformation process welcoming me and helping me understand the importance of indian yain country to this administration. and last but essential not least. charlie, who is associate director of the white house governmental affair from the navajo nation. it represents you, supports me and the administration. can we give them a quick round of applause? [applause] thanks. so we've been doing a lot, and i just want to run through a handful of things where we have made real progress since the last time you met one year ago. first is the president of the united states listened to you. and he created an executive order, middle of this year, to stand at the white house counsel and native american affairs and ask me to chair him, as jodi mentioned. .. into chest applications since 2009 and that is at it gordon to 30,000 acres and that's huge progress. the two years prior taking over we had 15,000 acres in land trust. [applause] our goal in three years of the obama administration is to get back to over a half-million acres to more than double that number so we are committed to doing that in making that happen. [applause] this time last year we heard from you that we need to take steps to lessen the damage of the supreme court's patch at decision so i'm pleased to announce my colleagues in indian affairs have issued a final rule to do just that. they issued it yesterday and that will help achieve greater transparency clarity and certainty for tribes to make sure that lands can be taken into trust for housing schools community centers and businesses so we want to continue to work with you to fix things like that. next the land buy-back program and the historic coukell settlement. we want to implement that in a smart and flexible way. we have been listening to you and we want predictability and you want transparency on the timing and implementation efforts and response we announce we are expanding the implementation strategy so more tribes can participate. we know there's a time sensitivity with us and we want to work with you to get that fully implemented because we know it's important to write some of the wrongs of the past. the third is indian education. we have a generational transformation going on in this country. i know that mr. in indian country as well and yet if our children are not well-educated and if they are not educated in a culturally appropriate way you are not going to achieve what your goals for your tribes in your cultures nor the goals of these young people to realize their dreams. while there has been over $2 billion invested in schools over the last 10 years we know that a number of them are still in really unfortunate shape. we have to fix them and work together with congress to get money to do that but i do know that there are opportunities to learn from others that do this really well. arne duncan secretary of education has been a great partner in this process. he has detailed resources to us in indian education to understand how to do that and he has cochaired a subgroup of the white house counsel specifically on indian education. he and i share a vision as you do of both an academically rigorous education but also a culturally appropriate education whether your children are educated in indian schools are public schools how do we work together to make that happen? i know that arnie will be a huge resource as he brings his team in education together with the hero of indian education to make that happen. fourth, we know there are fraternities to reform the federal acknowledgment process. we want to move forward to develop a fair and efficient and transparent process and we will be issuing a draft rule for your comment from a public comment, to make it easier in the future. fifth, india the rights. you can't do anything if you don't have clean water. we have drought circumstances all over the country. it impacts indian tribes in some regions more than anything else and it's not going to get better with climate change. since secretary salazar and president obama were here in 2009 we have settled 10 indian water rights agreements the most recent one with the white mountain apache tribe that i signed a few months ago. we remain committed to delivering clean water supplies to addressing indian or rights claims to strengthen your economies because we know that's critical so we will be working long sign with you to continue to make steady progress far more progress than our our ancestors in may our ancestors had made. six then this is something i heard yesterday quite a bit as i they held a listening session in my office. energy development on tribal lands. we know we have work to do. renewal energy conventional energy unconventional mineral resource extraction are opportunities for economic development and opportunities for revenue on tribal lands and we are going to be standing up the second committee of the white house counsel on naval -- cochaired by dr. said three working with interior with epa with agriculture all of whom can help work with you on realizing the potential you have on energy because we know you have a lot of opportunities to do that job. i'm very pleased we had our first renewable energy projects on the trust lands in nevada. there is a lot of opportunity to do more of this so the downside of drought you also have potential levy outside of solar energy wind energy as well as other resources so we are going to turn that into reality by working across the various agencies of the federal government to make that happen. next is a big issue for all of us and that is tackling climate change. if there is an area impacted more by so many things the climate change is one of them, it is un-american indians and alaskan natives. coastal erosion droughts impact on habitat and impact on subsistence is a huge issue. proud to work for a president that stood up in june to the climate action plan and said we are going to stop arguing about whether this is a reality and start dealing with what we can do about it. so he outlines the climate action plan. he also put out an executive order that created a mechanism for tribal and city governments to work together with state and local leaders. i want to thank karen who we will hear from later today and reggie joule mayor the northwest arctic wrote and other state and local leaders who sit on the state local and tribal leaders task force. they are saying how do we help prepare our lands to make them more resilient? how can we anticipate what's happening with climate change and prepare for that? renewable energy concerning landscapes understand and natural defenses as the geological survey of ringing science to bear in the ying at hurricane sandy and understanding financial systems you are so familiar with to help prepare us for storms and other weather events and how can we do more of that. and then, last but certainly not least is supporting self governance and doing it in tight to skull times. the house of representatives took a whack at the budget of interior and the budget of indian country and a significant way. just for indian affairs they took $200 million out of the budget and that's not accounting for the other impacts to the budget in the other federal agencies if this budget goes anywhere. we need your support to make sure that your voices are heard. the importance of investing in indian country is well-known so that does not become dark budget that we also want to work with you on standing up economic activities in your tribal lands just as i experience several years ago. so we are all collectively waiting, our governments, in challenging times. we are dealing with constraining budgets. we are dealing with a new emerging generation coming into a tight economy in some cases with challenging education, environments. we are dealing with climate change. it's not an easy time to be a leader which i'm so appreciative you being here and so appreciative of working with you on a government to government basis to figure these things out very we want to consult with the first and that's why we held the listening sessions yesterday and we will continue to do that this afternoon and over the course of time. we want to make sure we are operating as efficiently and effectively as we can so you can bank on me and my colleagues working together the cabinet the 13 members participating today the other folks that support them will be saying how can we coordinate like we are doing on energy and education and other areas as well. i know from growing up in this country that the federal government does not have a -- [inaudible] injustice can be reversed overnight but i'm proud of this president for stepping up and recognizing that it exists and a pledge i'm going to work alongside you and the president and my colleagues to continue to make important progress as they think we have seen happen over the course of the last five years. i wish you a successful and positive white house nation's tribal conference. i look or two interacting with you over the course of the day and into this evening and i want to thank you so much for your leadership of the nations you represent in helping lift all american indians and alaskan natives to make your world a better place and a better place for all americans. thank you very much. >> after secretary jewell opened the event other cabinet secretary spoke. eric shinseki of veterans affairs kathleen sebelius of health and human services anthony foxx of transportation and -- moniz of the energy department. this is 50 minutes. >> good morning everyone. secretary jewell thank you for your leadership of the white house native american affairs counsel but more importantly sally thank you for inviting me to participate today. i'm honored to be here. i don't think senator dorgan is here yet but i would like to just express my appreciation for his leadership on the senate committee on indian affairs where he had that post. i know there are probably other distinguished members of congress present as well. brian president of the national congress of american indians and other distinguished guests and among them i include -- it's great to see all of you. ladies and gentlemen, as is my custom, let me begin by greeting tribal affairs leaders with deep respect. it's part of my culture as well and i extend that to all the veterans who are here this morning and so i beg your indulgence, let me invite those who are veterans to stand if you are able to into raise your hand if you can't stand and let us have this opportunity to acknowledge your service. [applause] thank you very much. american indians and alaska natives have long and proud history of service to country and courage in battle. that goes back even to two before there was recognition of citizenship. 14,005 world war i. 44,000 served in world war ii and among them more than 30 types. some 10,000 served in korea among them former u.s. senator campbell and navy admiral clarke a cherokee who was a veteran of both world wars silly three-year veteran. over 80,000 native american served in vietnam, and operation iraqi freedom army specialist laurie was the first native american woman to die in combat the first american woman to die in operation iraqi freedom but the third generation in her family to serve in a war. today some 30,000 native american surf around the world for serving the warrior ethos that is so much a part of your culture. let me greet you in the tradition of where i grew up in the middle of the pacific. we say aloha. hello and welcome. i grew up in hawaii under marshall law in the 1940s following the attack on pearl harbor. then from my community like medal of honor recipient senator dan inouye went off to fight world war ii with indomitable courage determination and sacrifice. and in doing so they were among the most highly decorated army units not just in world war ii but the history of this country. earning 21 medals of honor for a unit that only existed about three and a half years. they fought and bled so young japanese americans like me would have the full privileges of citizenship. they all remain heroes in our community today and that is through of your communities as well. you have your heroes. the war in korea quickly followed and then vietnam came my turn to go toward the first time in 1966. i never planned on being a career soldier but 38 years flashed by pretty quickly. a lot of that had to do with falling in love with the american soldier. every day focused on two things, accomplish the mission and take the best care you could have your people, your soldiers and their families. today is secretary of the eight i have the privilege of continuing that care, caring for those i went to her within vietnam, caring for those that i sent to war as a serving chief of staff of the army and then caring for those giants as i call them in the history of our country who saved the world during world war ii and saved the nation during the 1950s. among them are heroes like army lieutenant fan -- a choctaw who during world war ii out flight to enemy machine gun nest forces her to surrender destroyed a tiger tank single-handedly and then drove to other tanks off. exhausted from this that'll he still managed to evacuate two seriously wounded comrades, two soldiers nearly a mile to get them to safety. and for his actions as you would expect band thomas was presented the nation's highest award for valor the medal of honor. he went on to serve in both korea and vietnam another three war veteran. heroes like wearing corporal ira hamilton hayes known to you very well a great honor to the tribe during world war ii when he helped his marine comrades raised the national colors atop mt. sara bocce atop iwo jima. he suffered terrible issues and was buried with full honors at arlington national cemetery. that is the least one of the reasons i'm here today. not here in this conference room but here are in this job. i cannot change the records of injustice in our histories and they are there and they are many. or the lack of trust some may have about government or this department but i do intend to make things better and they need your help. most know that the a's a large integrated health care system with over 1300 points of care of access. 152 medical centers, 829 outpatient clinics, 300 readjustment counseling debt centers and about 70 mobile and outreach bands that traveled to the most remote areas rural areas in our country to find veterans where they live. if ea also provides $10 billion in educational benefits annually along with arne duncan. second only to the department of education and most of you know about this is a post-9/11 g.i. bill or the montgomery g.i. bill that $10 million of educational opportunity. we guarantee you nearly 1.8 million home loans with a zero down into the in the nation. the va is the nation's ninth largest life insurance enterprise with $1.3 trillion in coverage and 6.7 million clients and we operate the country's largest national cemetery system , 100301 cemeteries. 337,000 nifty people come to work every day at the va. about a third of us are veterans. we bring the same determination initiative and leadership we earned in uniform to our duties as we were taught. people don't care what you know until they know that you care. so we are pursuing and still pursuing better ways to serve. in 2010 va and the indian health service signed an updated memorandum of understanding to enhance collaboration and resource sharing between our agencies. in december of 2012 working with secretary sebelius and dr. rubin know we signed the national reimbursement agreement. so far under that it remit over 2000 eligible native american veterans have received va reimbursed care from the indian health service and tribal health programs. as of today 106 indian health service facilities are reimbursed. we have also entered into reimbursement agreements with 35 tribes and tribal entities and we are working closely with 62 more. for fy2014, this coming year, president of him has budgeted $52 million specifically for fee a reimbursement to indian health service and tribal health programs. we can do much more this year. [applause] we are expanding va's homebase primary care program by co-locating resources and send indian health service hospitals, clinics, tribal clinics in va community-based outpatient clinics adjacent to tribal lands. over the past five years va's opposite burr health is dedicated $45 million to fund 101 initiatives located across indian country everything from mental health or grams to transportation mobile clinics as i mentioned ptsd treatment homebase primary care homeless veterans and telehealth projects that increase veterans access to health care specialists while minimizing those long commutes especially for the chronically ill. for the past three years the direct loan program va has funded over $18 million to veterans living on trust lands. to honor your culture by ensuring that native american veterans are laid to rest in the tradition of the tribes we have committed $19.5 million to the nation of oklahoma. over the last three years to construct new tribal veterans cemeteries and tribal lands. in fy2014 -- [applause] in this next year in fy2014, five more grants proposals will total nearly five point $25 million. in january 2011 the va established the office of tribal government relations to improve the medications so we could be more responsive to your needs. deputy assistant secretary john garcia, many of you know him and director stephanie burke will also known well to you, my personal picks and trusted agents in working with the tribes are charged with increasing veteran access to va benefits and services that they earned so we are looking to increase our outreach here. in february 2012 i signed our first tribal consultation policy so we can communicate directly with tribal governments on veteran related issues affecting indian country. over 156,000 american indian alaska native veterans with the united states. president obama and i are committed to providing a lexus to all veterans and if you understand this bread and the difference in the landscape you will appreciate that commitment means whether you are living in an urban area or a rural veteran or in the most remote of locations like the outer banks of glasgow or maybe even guam, seven hours away, our commitment is to provide as best we can equal access to every veteran in the nation and that includes veterans living on tribal lands. with the support of the congress , the president has increased his budget request for va by over 50% since 2009. so rural urban remote native american all earned the same benefits and services and our commitment is to deliver on them. i took this appointment to have president obama make things better for veterans quickly and then to change this department for the long term so that all veterans including native american veterans will be well served and treated with the dignity and the respect that they demonstrated in serving in our country's uniforms. it's been an honor to be here with you this morning and again sally thank you for the invite. mahalo as we say god bless and may the almighty bless each and everyone of you and may the almighty continue to bless our nations. thank you everyone. [applause] a ladies and gentlemen kathleen sebelius, secretary of the united states department of health and human services. [applause] >> good morning. good morning everybody. it's my great pleasure to have another opportunity to be at this historic meeting of native americans and alaska natives here at the department of the interior. i want to recognize my colleague secretary sally jewell who has been a terrific addition to the cabinet and a wonderful colleague and partner on a lot of issues. thank you for hosting today and thank you for your leadership. you just heard from secretary shinseki and as he said we have worked together on a friday of initiatives that benefit to the indian country and i'm going to talk about a few of those. in the audience and with you all day long will be our great leader of the indian health services dr. yvette roubideaux who i can tell you is a tireless advocate for better health in indian country and thank you to dr. roubideaux and stacy who works with her intergovernmental relations department. i am also pleased that we have some of our staff members here. one of the things i did is create a secretary tribal advisory committee and it's been enormously helpful not only to me but all of our senior leaders are not only budget issues but tired issues and i know with us today are ken lucero and harry hayes the former chair and i want to thank gary for his service in the past so thank you all for being with us today. you know i make at least a once a year visit to indian country and in july had the opportunity to visit the navajo nation. i attended a special session of the navajo nation council. it was a really interesting opportunity for me because i had an opportunity to hear directly from the delegates about the challenges they face day-to-day. they spoke about their efforts on diabetes and cancer, hiv/aids prevention and treatment. they shared some of their concerns as well as hopes for how to improve health and wellness throughout the navajo nation. and i wanted to take this opportunity to offer some thoughts on a few of the priorities we share. welding our government to government relationship, obligations to closing health disparities and reinvigorating health and wellness in tribal communities throughout this country. so our research shows us that nearly one in three american indians and alaska natives don't have health insurance. one in three. now that compares with 62% of all americans who are covered with insurance but in the alaska native and american indian communities only 36% are covered so the challenges they face are real. by the same note so are the opportunities to expand services and access to coverage. for example, if every state in the country were to attend medicaid and i will tell you that's something the president and i are dedicated to can change for sue -- pursue, 94% of indians and alaska natives who qualify for financial assistance to get health insurance, whether through the health insurance marketplace through medicaid or three chip. so we have a pathway with the new build to getting people into the health system in an economic fashion. closing disparities in promoting health and wellness in tribal communities has been made prairie for this administration has long as there has been an obama administration. our president inherited the worst economic crisis in a generation but he insisted on forging a new path opening new lines of communication and investing in indian country and you will hear from him later today. as a result we have been able in the obama administration to make more progress for indian country than we have made in a generation. let me just give you a few snapshots from hhs. before president obama took the oath of office there was a steady decline in the number of children in head start who spoke at tribal language at home. today we are using it starts new performance standards to integrate tribal language and culture into classrooms and into correct them. that's a big step forward for the next generation. before the affordable care act only 60 ihs and travel facilities were eligible in the national health service award. this is one of the best-kept secrets in health in the country. the national health service corps is kind of the peace corps for health care providers. if you agree after you get your medical degree to go practice in another -- underserved community the federal government has to pay off some of your student loans debt and give you a scholarship. the snapshot before was there were only 60 facilities that could even accept these health care providers including doctors, nurses and mental health threat dictionaries. today we have qualified every ihs in tribal facility to be eligible, more than 600 in all and we have national health service going into our ihs facilities across this country and that is very good news. ..
VietnamRepublic-ofLouisianaUnited-statesJapanTokyoNevadaPhilippinesDaytonOhioMissouriTexas delivers a compassionate and insightful group portrait of singular men and women who spoke out on lgbtq issues women's rights civil rights and the environment in the 1950s, not the complacent era that we all think it is. so tonight james's conversation partner is writer daniel okrent. and before i introduce the two of them. i just have a few quick notes for you first while the book is not released for a few more weeks. this is kind of a sneak peek. you can pre-order it and we will put a link in the chat to the website of a local brooklyn bookstore the community bookstore so that you can do that if you so desire with just a couple of clicks. second like all of our talks you have the option tonight to use closed captioning that features that the bottom of your screen life transcript and finally i want to invite you all to share your questions tonight for james type them throughout the program into the q&a box at the bottom of your screen and dan will will take as many of them as he has time for towards the end of the program. now, let me say a word about each. our guests and i will happily hand it off to them. james our gaines is the former managing editor of time life and people magazines and the author of several books, including wits and days and nights of the algonquin roundtable evening in the palace of reason a study of johann sebastian bach in the early enlightenment, and for liberty and glory, washington lafayette and their revolutions. and daniel ocrants books include great fortune the epic of rockefeller center, which was a finalist for the 2004 pulitzer prize in history last call the rise and fall of prohibition and the guarded gate bigotry eugenics and the law that kept two generations of -- italians and other europeans out of america. he was also the first public editor of the new york times. welcome to you both. thank you so much for being here. i'm excited to hear your conversation and take it away. thank you very much. marsha. i'm very happy to be here and i want to thank the library and the bookstore for making this possible and i would say hello to my old friend jim. hi jim. hi, dan, jim and i met during the 1960s. we're very old. in ann arbor, michigan at a moment when people of our generation thought that we were changing the world. we didn't change the world that much but we did take a lot of self-congratulatory moments to so how different were we were but what one learns from reading jim's book and reading the 50s is that the 60s were the consequence of the 50s as marsha said when she introduced us the complacent fifties were not complacent for those people who are fighting enormous battles that had great consequences in the 60s and many of them still have consequences a very positive sense today. jim why did you write this book? um initially it was because my kids came home from school one day and said, why is our time not as exciting as the sixties. yes, and i had to say you know, i'm well, i didn't say that. it was actually fraught it wasn't all fun and games they were talking about the music i think. um, but then i started think i was looking for subject after i finished. the washington lafayette book and and i started to think. how was it that this black and white decade led to this polychromatic riot of the 60s history just doesn't work that way. you know, it's it's it doesn't work my decades. as you well know. so i started to think why you know, how did the 60s emerge? and as i was because i was reading it came to me that it wasn't the decade. i thought it was. not at i say it wasn't at all. but it was different and more complicated than i had known. and that makes her good book. could you maybe introduce where we're going by reading the last paragraph of the introduction page? yeah. there's a theory that change happens not by winning hearts and minds. but by changing the law. after which harps and minds will follow among isolated people of the 50s. however, there's evidence of an earlier stage in the process of change. the moment when a singular man or woman sets out to confront other than evade some intimately personal conflict which inspires them and others to change the heart's minds of those who make the laws. so isolated by their personal histories, idiosyncrasies flaws and gifts. they have in common the courage the vision and a profoundly motivating need to fight for change in their time in the future. this book is about some of the best of them. and that's what we're going to talk about tonight many of the people that jim writes about in this book several of them are familiar names and we'll talk about a few of them. but the great the one of the huge contributions that i think the book makes is it introduces us to people who were enormously influential players and our nation's history and very few of us know who they were. and i thought we might start out for jim. tell us a little bit about harry. hay who was harry. hay. harry hayes started the first sustained organization for gay rights in the history in american history and he did so at the worst possible time. it was just after world war two. a time when when the united states the soviet union and nazi germany shared the view that homosexuals were criminals and potential security risks. and the church thought were wicked and the medical profession called psychopaths and it was at this moment that harry. hey who's then married with two? daughters decided and a member of the communist party by the way, which will come back to decided that it was time to start a gay rights movement. and everybody told me it was crazy and he did it anyway because among other things he was incredibly stubborn. and he did it. it was called the matter sheen society and it was a sort of like a alcoholic's anonymous group where you came and you talked about that issue, but it took him three or four years to even get someone. to join him in that effort and in that time he lost his family. yeah. what year are we in jim? when he started that when he actually got to start the it was 1951. when he thought about it, it was 1946-47. and in the time between he lost his family. he lost all his friends except the gay men that he new and we're her friend. where's his friends outside the home he lost his relationship with his daughters. although he he tried to keep it up with by paying the you know, the child support he was supposed to through his job at a at a weapon factory. this was in los angeles and they lived in a neighborhood that was called the swish alps because it was a gay scene. and it was a scene he had to keep himself away from which was he had terrible dreams as he as he moved towards starting this organization that falling down mountain sides pushing his children down that sides, you know hurting them and his wife. um, i don't i can't imagine a worse conflict. but he managed to do it and then as soon as he did it at their first convention, he was voted out of power. because of his communist connections and by then it was 1953 and everybody was scared to death of mccarthy. and he and they were at every right to be scared of mccarthy because like the combination of communism and homosexuality was really not at the time. it was everybody thought that they were that they were spies. derby there are being fired by the hundreds from the state department. um a couple things jumped out of me reading about hey and the and the environment one, you know, just as a fact that i had no idea that when the american army liberated the concentration camps in eastern europe. we did not set free the men who had pink triangles on their shoulders. they were just left there. they were returned to germany where whose courts had sentenced them to long prison terms and they got no credit for time served in the concentration camp. incredible and we knew that when we handed them over. that's 1945 1945 46. yep. so no 1945. yeah, moving forward a few years of phrase that comes up in the in the discussion of the medicine society is self-respect as a radical demand. can you elaborate on that? i think that does it says it all i mean, can you imagine a time when self-respect would be considered a radical demand? i mean, it's it's infuriating honestly, but at the time that was the case, that's effectively what at that point. hey and associates were not. advocating changes in laws or anything. they wanted self-respect. that was really the issue self-respect, but they also wanted the the gale stuff to stop where cops would demand payment from bars for forgive from gay bars and also that they that you know that they were generally oppressed. everywhere they went they were oppressed. they had to have they had to have sex in bathrooms. and so the police hung out in bathrooms. i mean it was. it was very sorry sight. so when harry hay is kicked out of the organization that he had labored and sweat for to found that doesn't end things who us about frank caminy. before i get to canada, i'll tell you where it went. it went to a guy who in. san francisco who? who turned the organization inside out he made psychologists part of their routine meetings psychologists who told them they were sick and needed help. he actually told the fbi that he would help them find gay people in san francisco. that didn't come out until very recent book, but it was it was it was terrible, but then frank hamady in washington. who had never joined the vanishing? was a perfect. he had got his astronomy from harvard. and was about to to start teaching at georgetown when he went to san francisco for a an academic meeting. presented a paper there, but was caught in a bathroom. having sex with someone else and was arrested. and then he was he was he was outed to the civil service where he then had been had been hired. because he couldn't teach at georgetown anymore, but they didn't know the civil service did not know this happened until sometime later when they called him in and said what happened in san francisco. and he refused to answer refused to answer, but then he just he just told him it was none of their business. and they fired him. and then he on a diet of 20 cents a day. i mean a an allowance of 20 cents a day because he had no money. he sold his car to get that. he began papering washington with with this story. and and complaining about the legal and moral. i don't know insult that this represented not only to him but to other gay men. who at the time we're still being fired at a very fast rate because now mccarthy was really in his. it is high moment. so he graduated then to being perhaps the most successful advocate for sexual the lack of the the absence of sexual discrimination and and he including a an appeal to supreme court on behalf of a guy named bruce scott. that was not successful. but they actually they the chief justice is clerics. thought it would be but they but he knew that the court would never take the case and that's what happened. frank how many kept kept fighting and fighting and fighting for years until finally he was able to go to the obama white house. and the obama white house canceled repealed clintons don't act don't tell policy. i skipped over the fact that frank amity was a decorated soldier in world war two an 88 millimeter. motor crewman and was proud of nothing than his infantryman combat infantry, and it's badge which he wore to that occasion? just without his case. that was after. half a century of his battling for his guests. yes. extraordinary we've got a lot of other administration. we have a lot of people to cover but before we leave the subject, could i ask you to read the last paragraph on page 47? yeah, frank how many harry hay? and they're known an unknown core cohorts. left the country a priceless legacy. they lifted the burden of shame for millions of people whom the medical profession called psychopaths. the church called wicked in the state called felons. and they replaced that bird with every citizen's birthright self-respect and respect of others. no one in the early homophile movement got more recognition in their lifetimes than harry. hay and frank kammany, but what deserves celebration as much as the victories they and their compatriots one. is the model they left behind? compotecomings famously wrote to be nobody by yourself in the world, which is doing its best day and night to make you everybody else. means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight. that is what they did. thanks, jim. the next section of the book is about. the origins of really of american feminism in the in the 20th century or i guess. um american feminism post the the voting amendment the 19th amendment of the constitution the key figure in this chapter. there are many women in this chapter are really kind of thrilling figures, but the one who struck me was paulie murray, tell us about paulie murray if you would thanks to a new movie. she's finally getting some credit for all she did but she began life. she was the she was the her mother died when she was three and she was sent to live with her grandparents. one of them was fought for the union in the civil war. and the other one was the child of a black slave and a white i mean she was the child of black slave, but she was also the mistress as it were but i don't think she was she was the rape victim of her owners, son. so she grew up with people on both sides of the south. and she was as a relative of their skin color of when she called in between race. which was especially a problem in school when she was young. because she was made fun of for that reason. and then when became a teenager. she thought she was missed miss identified. as a as a girl she was she felt she was a man. and she kept writing to doctors saying please help. i know there's been a mistake. so she was in between both racial and gender so that was her. that was her. that was her struggle, and that was her. weapon against the world as she found it later. and as she helps form it to me this that part of the story really begins when she's in law school at howard university can tell us about she was well educated. she went to hundred her background was middle class. her her family were nurses and professional people an academics and so she she she was she was. she was going around the country trying to save a sharecropper named odell waller. from the news and i mean a legal news. he had been he had been convicted of murder. wrongly but of course convicted in minutes by a white jury. that one stop she was she gave her spiel in front of thurgood marshall and leon ransom. who was then the dean of howard law school and was given as a result a full tuition scholarship to howard. she was the only girl on only woman in her class of all black men. how it is a black university. and she found herself. laughed at behind her back. she was not called in class as much of the other guys. as the other people and she was at the first the first instance aware of what she came to call jane crow. it was the combination of sexual discrimination gender discrimination and racial discrimination. it didn't it didn't or her final law school paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plessy versus ferguson the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her but she prevailed and wrote that thesis her professor spotters with robinson bet her $25 that that no $10 that it wouldn't be that plus he wouldn't be overturned for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-known brown decision, which he won in part by reading her thesis which spot is what brawson robinson brought him because he didn't realize he was really going for it. so, but she didn't address gender discrimination until years later. when she wrote a paper called jane crow. and that was the argument that ruth bader ginsburg used when she was still an attorney to argue to to write the brief that that one supreme court's decision. to declare sexual discrimination to be unconstitutional that was a huge breakthrough and it was because of polymerie and and ginsburg acknowledged that by putting her name on the brief. no her role as a figure in american legal history is enormous, but we know ginsburg and we know marshall we don't know her exactly and this we begin to see or ibmc reasons. that reasons why but i began to see the you know the nature of this discrimination very vividly around the time of the march on washington in 1962 by this point. she's a well-known figure certainly within the civil rights legal community. and the march on washington which we all know about is about to take place and she's not very pleased with the way. it's proceeding. so she rights to a philip randolph who was one of the organizers the labor leader who was one of the organizers of the march. could you? read what she said to him. page 74 74 yes. and by the way, hey philip randolph. and his and his march on washington movement from the 1940s hired her he was her first real employer. and this is what she said to him when rosa parks daisy bates all the september clark all the prominent women of the civil rights movement were giving seconds on the podium at the march on washington. certainly for not there. sorry. the time has come to say to you quite candidly, mr. randolph. that tokenism is as offensive when applied to women as when applied to --. that's the word. she always used. and that i have not devoted the greater part of my adult life to the implementation of human rights to now condone any policy, which is not inclusive. with any consequences no, in fact the day before the march he spoke at the national press club which then consigned women to the balcony? i mean really it was it shows you just how a complex and really diseased the relationship was between the black civil rights movement. and the and the when it's right movement, but then three years after the march on washington. she plays a key role in a very important moment in american feminist history. she does she introduced she was on the president's commission on still rights and specifically on the issue of feminism, especially the equal rights amendment. and she was well, i forget exactly what what happened, but betty friedan reached out to her. i know it was a piece in the new york times when she basically threatened action against in the half of feminism or women's rights. and betty friedan reached out and talk to her. and pollinary described to her what she thought of as an naacp for women. and betty friedan picked up that mantle and and went with it polly murray helped her introduce her to her network at the president's commission and the rest is history except that a couple of years later pauly murray quit now national organization of women, which he helped to start because of a lack of diversity. she said it was just not the organization. she she wished to help she was looking beyond that to a movement of multiple discriminations against indigenous people against against people from other countries against you know a class race and gender. yes. she was not willing to sorry have a century ago half a century ago. exactly. so she was a pioneer of what's now been called intersectional feminism. right next subject of third section of the book is about civil rights movement, obviously an enormous moment in american history what it might begin with a little bit of backstory on this the history of black men and their military service in this country. yeah, this is a chapter someone different because it tries to rectify the imbalance between well, it tries to minimize the the effect that men coming home from the war had on the civil rights logan and how important armed defense was to the nonviolent movement. when medgar evers, for example, we we know a lot about mid rivers. but not everything. when he came home from service. but from he served from d-day to the battle of the bulge. when he came home. he was on the bat on his way home on the back of a bus in uniform with his discharge papers and full of metals. and when the bus stops for people to eat lunch, he was left on the bus. i can't even listen. this is in the 1940s there. this is 1940s. yeah late 45-46 it was 46. and that year was a was a an election year midterm election year. and medgar evers and his brother charles decided they were going to vote. which no one had ever done in their county. and they they went through the their parents were told don't let this happen because you're not gonna like what happens to them the parents told them what this white visitor had said. but they but they did not tell them not to go to the polling place and they did where they returned back by guns and you know. the threat of violence and they turned back and they got their own guns and walked back toward the polling place and they were about by more guns and decided wait. we don't really want to get killed. so they walk home they were not able to vote in 1946. and i mean it's it's striking to me. that we're still talking about voting rights. there's going to be a debate in the senate tonight. maybe it's going on already about voting rights. how could this be? it's disgusting. there's a a historical precedent relating to this order about. black soldiers returning from world war one and there's a quote that i i could read the quote or do you want to read the quote the no. other way, okay now let me read this. this is a six. six year old girl remembering when the last black veterans of world war one came home to alabama and she never forgot sitting up nights with her grandfather who kept a shotgun on his lap waiting for the clan. she remembered him saying i don't know how long i would last if they came breaking in here, but i'm getting the first one who comes through the door. she stayed up with him. she remembered because i wanted to see it. i wanted to see him shoot that gun. was that six year old? rosa parks she already had the to fire in the belly as you as we say. i think that. you know frederick douglass. purged black men to join the civil war on the union side because he was convinced that if they did their standing in the country would be as regular citizens and w would be too boy said the same thing in world war one and neither of them got any credit. in fact, what happened was when they came home and uniform they were met by white terrace who said where that uniform again, and you will die. and that happened to one of the people that i'm that i write about. oh you want to write you want to talk about isaac woodard at this point indeed. let's let's do isaac woodard was a he went in as a private came home as a tech sergeant. he was working with a with a an all black unit in in the on the pacific fit in the pacific theater. and when he came home. was on a bus. going home to winnsboro, south carolina, north carolina. where his wife was waiting for? and he when they made a stop he had to go to the bathroom and so he told the driver i need to go to the bathroom. and the driver said no. and he's in fact, he said no -- it and and isaac woodard said talk to me like i'm a man. just like you which i think before the war. he would never have said that. and so the driver without knowing without letting and letting him know went to a phone called a head to batesburg and and told the police there was somebody on his bus was making trouble got debates bird. where he was met by the entire police force of batesburg, which was two guys the chief of police and deputy. the chief police the driver told me to get out and talk to that you least he did. and before you get a word out. the chief of police beat him in the head with a special baton that was you know, rigged for real impact of a spring-loaded. he's in uniform right? he's in uniform. and he finally he managed to get the baton away from the guy. and started fighting and the deputy came around and put his put his gun on on water and he told him he would shoot him if he didn't stop so he didn't stop and and the chief of police kept beating at one point. if they could tell later that he had ground his baton into woodard's eyes. which indicates that woodard had made the mistake of looking directly at it? what word was blind for the rest of his life? ah, what can i say and and truman took his case up. he was talked. he was talked to by the naacp and you know, truman was a real hero when it came to civil rights. he's really given credit for it, but he he was the first president or candidate to campaign in harlem. truman said to his attorney general you got to look into this and if necessary and if right bring charges against this chief of police. that was just unheard of in the south in 1946 and was this around the same time that truman integrated the armed forces? oh god, no. well, i mean it was yes. it was the first time. yeah, he that was about 1950. but yeah, he was the first to try. it's really happened then but yeah, it was the first to to make it a policy. anyway woodard was was blind for the rest of his life and never knew. truman had come in for him that that in fact the trial took place and the judge in the trial was absolutely on woodard side. and and actually set a bunch of precedents for civil rights law. in the time going forward was alienated from his from his town and and that and that and woodard never knew about any of this and that this judge who was in charleston had never particularly shown any interest in civil rights issues defending the rights of black people, but he was so horrified by this needless to say i guess for that period the jury acquitted the police chief. correct course in minutes. yeah, in fact, he took a walk. around town so that they couldn't quit them too fast. and his wife was in the office was in the courtroom and first into tears. and what had never forgot? great an incredible story. the last section of the book is about ecology a word that probably didn't even exist back then but i did actually yeah my my fall um, we know a lot about racial racial carson who is a key figure in this chapter the you know, the great writer and naturalist who moved from studying the seashore to studying what was happening to our birds and wrote silence spring, which i think is probably maybe the one that comes closest to it is ralph nader's unsafe at any speed the book that changes the world's view of something in this case ddt, but there's a second character that you pair her with even though they never met and that's norbert wiener the most as he was called in a newspaper headline when he was 12 years old the most remarkable boy in the world, i think page 149. yeah. yeah. yeah. shall i read some or yeah, i think read that from the bottom pay bottom page for 149. norbert weiner was 12 years old when rachel carson was born. but he was the most unlikely 12 year old. well others his age were in fifth or sixth grade. he was entering his freshman year at tufts university. in 1906. that was the that was the article in in the world calling in the most remarkable in the world. and it's hard to imagine anyone who better fit that title. he told the world reporter. he had learned much more from reading ernest heckles the riddle of the university in german than homer in greek since homer was just telling stories. yes, he said of course. he looked have fun swimming is my forte. he said but i like studying too when i have participated in the boys games. i turned to my huxley or my spencer. suggestions for them which led my mind to greater things. so these greater things we never goes to ends up at mit extremely eccentric character widely acknowledges a genius of peculiar life. it's actually i wish we had more time to read about some of norbert wieners peculiarities because they are really something but what you know, he's talking as a 12 year about the greater things you want. what were the greater things? where did norbert weiner go with his life with that brilliance? he got his doctorate in his post doctorate work at. various team universities as postdoc was with bertram russell and john dewey. he was just a genius that not only mathematics but the logic of mathematics and it was a time when computers were being developed. at a time when the computer was a person with a slide rule and a pencil. literally, that was what they were called. he was put into the war effort in 1940 41. in order to deal with the luftwaffe, which was raining terror over britain at the time and which was much higher and faster than anybody knew before the war started. um, he was famous for work in brownian motion, which i go into but he was really interested in the fact and he came to this through his wartime work that you could put people and and mechanical things including electrical mechanical things. in a single task so he conceived of of anti-aircraft. as the combination of people on the ground the gunner etc. and a a circle of causality between the airplane in the sky the speed of the airplane the maneuvers the airplane the ability to pilot to to do evasive maneuvers. and around circle of information. which was you know, there was no enemy in this process. it was just a circle of information which helped the guy on the ground bring that guy down, but he can't he changes and i'm gonna push you a little bit because i want to leave room for questions about but his relationship to the military changes radically and this begins to be the place where he incarcer though. they never met a kind of coming together. could you talk a little bit about that? yeah, the military was responsible all kinds of horrible. the military and in corporate america were responsible some very serious. i imprecations on the i mean it was it was a time when science was accomplishing incredible things. but among those incredible things was the atomic bomb napalm cyclon b, which which hitler used in the concentration camps? as well as as well as synthetic fertilizers synthetic synthetics of all sorts, which poised in the atmosphere and poisoned the ground that farmers were to work on. it it was a time when actually during the war los angeles. thought it had a chemical attack because the the fumes from newly muscular cars were choking people. and and after that then the military actually started experimenting on the american public with like dropping radio radioactive materials to find out you know, what dose actually cause a problem. they experimented on all kinds of people in hospitals in you know. over schools over over domestic over suburbs. it was it was extremely irresponsible behavior and we still don't know the extent of it. although a lot of has come out in the clinton administration where does wiener come in? weiner when when the war was over and he saw some of the stuff happening in in the environment, but but also the the militarization of american society and american science. he refused to have anything else to anything to do with military science and at mit, which was almost completely subsidized at least this the rad lab was almost completely subsidized my military. that was an incredible position to take and he was thought to be, you know, crazy for taking it everybody thought he was just being norbert. but in fact, he never worked for the military and military science again. and he wrote a book after he wrote a book called cybernetics. which was impossible to understand for most people he wrote a book called the human use of human beings. which was incredibly radical for its time. it talked about it talked about the necessity of treating labor fairly at a time when the great strike wave of 1946 1947 had you know had made. basically workers into communists so we know. by taking this very strong in public position against the military misbehavior in domestic life. the parallel if i may read something from your book, i think you very eloquently stayed. what what's similar between what he's doing and what rachel carson and her campaign against ddt another poisons in the environment. what is she doing and you write? by confronting the effects of science practice mainly in the pursuit of power and profit. and by calling for scientific innovations to be accessible and understood by politicians policymakers and the general public before they were deployed. carson and weiner advanced a compelling argument namely that nature was neither a thing apart from humankind nor any longer even holy natural since its anointed masters were ever more assertively rearranging the earth. as evidence of the dangers inherent in that mastery. they shined a very bright light on the masters at work. and changed our lives i think in many ways. i agree. um, we want to go to questions. if you have questions, please put them in the q&a, but i think do that what better way to end the discussion the formal discussion of a book jim then by your reading if you would the last paragraph of the epilogue on page 205? okay. i'm going back to the way you started the conversation. my generation however, the idea too what that's the idea. yeah. my generation had our victories to we're looking back i can't help feeling that people like those in this book were the more authentic rebels. in part because they didn't feel think of themselves that way. in a decade in a nation, perhaps ready or with the program than ever before they defied the most powerful forces and conventions of their time just to keep the people they were in the country and it always promised to be thanks to that they lit up half for the rest of us. to a somewhat less imperfect union which is about the best thing any citizen can do. a great way to end the book and the formal part of the evening, and i'd like to turn to questions from everybody who's listening if you have something that as i said, please put it in the q&a. here's a question about poly murray. did she ever resolve her gender confusion? i'm not sure. um, she because of her. feeling about who she was the male part of herself. she was just appointed in love many times because she was only attracted to heterosexual women, but she did get over it to the extent that she was a hero. i mean, how much more can you do with that conflict and what she did? and in fact at the end of her life she went to seminary because they had never had alter girls in the church. so she went to episcopal seminary and became a priest knowing she would have only three years before mandatory retirement when she was done. i mean that speaks wonders, but she also had a a companion at the end of her life whom she loved and who loved her. so, um, so that extent. yes, she did overcome her conflict. thank you. here's a question all the way from providence rhode island from someone named allison pell. she asks, obviously this is a different take on this time in various individuals impact on change what most of all should we take away from the book and what does this teach us about the way history is written. i think more than anything. it's about extraordinary people. whose stubbornness and conflict teaches them every day? how to make change without you know without their taking any lessons from anyone. it's just because they wanted to be who they were. and have the rights of that they were due. including self-respect i think it's about that simple. well, isn't that just a kind of a variation on what's historically been called the great man theory of history that individual. individuals in that theory obviously, they're their leaders of nations and such but that's exactly you're kind of saying the same thing that you don't have to be the leader of a nation. to be able to make this change if you are the right person at the right moment or at least to get the change happening. i would argue coming else. i would argue that. the book that a president united states or a senator has joe manchin and cinema or not is the one who conveys to the president of the united states or the senate the the injustice of the position. they've been given and i think you know they gather other people around them and movements start from what they've done. but i think ultimately those people in power don't come up with these ideas themselves. um, here's a question from jane with the dumbing down of sensible discussions with the advent of social media. what hope is there for genuine movements for social clinical change? well just as it's difficult not to be discussed by the lack of progress and so right. you can't ignore the progress we've made in gay rights. in feminism and and certainly ecology. we haven't won all those battles. but we're further ahead than we were then and progress as martin luther king said the ark of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. it is very long sometimes. so these people are here among us now and they're in the process of doing the things that these unknown figures that you've mostly unknown figure some american not fairly recent american history. they could move the world. yeah. yep. that's okay. that's a very positive view look on it. can you here's here's an anonymous questioner says do you think there are people? well, that's the same thing. i just asked. let me give try this one. well, i think we know the answer to this but gregory asks david halberstam did a fairly comprehensive look at the 50s. why did you decide to dig deeper into that fascinating decade another way of asking that what the key way is your book different from david's halberstam's book the fifties. he his book on the 50s was. a very good for one thing, but also it it covered. in depth the things we know about the 50s. in shallow and it didn't deal really with with the people. well did it did deal but fleetingly over the the social issues that this book addresses. um, i don't have any other questions there now if you've got them come with them, but because i it's always good. in any discussion of serious issues to take a moment for some humor with jim's permission. i'd like to read a little bit more about norbert weiner. may i jim please? yes. okay. so this is wiener after he's established as a very well-known figure as a genius. he's at mit. jim writes if he was fluent in a dozen languages and socially inept in all of them as of colleague put it a foreigner wherever he was. he got lost easily at his frequent meanderings through the mit labs where he worked for 45 years. some labs posted lookouts to warn of his approach because wiener was known to cut into ongoing conversations abruptly and holy out of context while reading a book or lost in thought he would walk the halls with one finger tracing the wall when he reached the open door of a classroom or laboratory. he was known to follow his finger inside and around its walls back to the hallway. he stopped to have a conversation. he sometimes forgot which way he had been walking. once he asked whether he had been walking toward the lunchroom or away from it, so he would know if he had had lunch or not. i just think that's a nice my favorite is that he swam on his back so he could smoke a cigar while he was swimming. well, the reason why i didn't cite that is my father did the same thing. it was really did. he really well. he did it with the cigarette and only you know, he loved the backstroke. anyway, we are moving a little bit far from the topic. i want i want to thank you jim we are running out of time and thanks a library and thank community bookstore and thank all of you who have dialed in tonight to listen to this or those who will be watching it shortly on on the recorded version, will be posted tomorrow. so with that i'm going to say again. thanks, jim and turn it back over to marshall. yes, and i'm gonna add my thanks to you jim and dan to you for really orchestrating such a masterful conversation about the book and all of the readings that you you wove in really helped a lot and you know, so. um important to tell the stories of individuals and elevate them and the power that they have to actually affect change. because that inspires us all i mean there was some pretty pretty shocking and an awful things that folks were were battling against that you describe. so anyway, i want to thank everybody who's come for being here and tell you that the program was recorded and will be on our our youtube page tomorrow and just tell you a little bit about what's coming down the pike later this month in an early february. we we will have a another program about a book. it's called the last last slave ship with ben raines who discovered the clotilda which is the last known slave ship that brought in slave people here from africa. illegally. he discovered that ship in the bayou of alabama and he will be talking about not only his his experience. he's a journalist, but what it means for all of us, um, and what happened to the the people are on that ship and then later later in february early, february and money. perry will be here to talk about south to america. so all which is to say that i hope that i i see that we have the upcoming programs link in the chat and i hope that everyone, you know explores that and joins us for more programs later this month into february and the spring we're so grateful to both of you for and jim for this with this fantastic fantastic that you know, it doesn't get more pure than. talk about people. and their lives and how it affects it has affected and changed things and thank you for digging them up. and thanks to all of you for being here tonight. so on that note, i hope everyone has a wonderful evening andgreel archives flagship building in washington dc which sits on the ancestral lands of the nokache tank peoples. i'm david ferio archivist of the united states as a pleasure to welcome you to today's conversation with kevin boyle and suzanne e smith about boyle's new book the shattering before we begin i'd like to tell you about two programs coming up soon on our youtube channel. on wednesday, january 26th at 1 pm. david mckean will tell us about his new book watching darkness fall which recounts the rise of the third reich in germany and the road to war from the perspective of four american ambassadors in key western european capitals, london berlin
New-yorkUnited-statesAlabamaAnn-arborMichiganNorth-carolinaBrooklynUnited-kingdomWashingtonRussiaCanadaBerlin library and also bpl presents, which is the libraries arts and culture arm tonight. i am thrilled to welcome author james gaines whose latest book which comes out on february 8th is titled the 50s and underground history. i'm going to tell you a little bit about what publishers weekly says, it says this revisionist history is packed with insights it goes on to say that gains delivers a compassionate and insightful group portrait of singular men and women who spoke out on lgbtq issues women's rights civil rights and the environment in the 1950s, not the complacent era that we all think it is. so tonight james's conversation partner is writer daniel okrent. and before i introduce the two of them. i just have a few quick notes for you first while the book is not released for a few more weeks. this is kind of a sneak peek. you can pre-order it and we will put a link in the chat to the website of a local brooklyn bookstore the community bookstore so that you can do that if you so desire with just a couple of clicks. second like all of our talks you have the option tonight to use closed captioning that features that the bottom of your screen life transcript and finally i want to invite you all to share your questions tonight for james type them throughout the program into the q&a box at the bottom of your screen and dan will will take as many of them as he has time for towards the end of the program. now, let me say a word about each. our guests and i will happily hand it off to them. james our gaines is the former managing editor of time life and people magazines and the author of several books, including wits and days and nights of the algonquin roundtable evening in the palace of reason a study of johann sebastian bach in the early enlightenment, and for liberty and glory, washington lafayette and their revolutions. and daniel ocrants books include great fortune the epic of rockefeller center, which was a finalist for the 2004 pulitzer prize in history last call the rise and fall of prohibition and the guarded gate bigotry eugenics and the law that kept two generations of -- italians and other europeans out of america. he was also the first public editor of the new york times. welcome to you both. thank you so much for being here. i'm excited to hear your conversation and take it away. thank you very much. marsha. i'm very happy to be here and i want to thank the library and the bookstore for making this possible and i would say hello to my old friend jim. hi jim. hi, dan, jim and i met during the 1960s. we're very old. in ann arbor, michigan at a moment when people of our generation thought that we were changing the world. we didn't change the world that much but we did take a lot of self-congratulatory moments to so how different were we were but what one learns from reading jim's book and reading the 50s is that the 60s were the consequence of the 50s as marsha said when she introduced us the complacent fifties were not complacent for those people who are fighting enormous battles that had great consequences in the 60s and many of them still have consequences a very positive sense today. jim why did you write this book? um initially it was because my kids came home from school one day and said, why is our time not as exciting as the sixties. yes, and i had to say you know, i'm well, i didn't say that. it was actually fraught it wasn't all fun and games they were talking about the music i think. um, but then i started think i was looking for subject after i finished. the washington lafayette book and and i started to think. how was it that this black and white decade led to this polychromatic riot of the 60s history just doesn't work that way. you know, it's it's it doesn't work my decades. as you well know. so i started to think why you know, how did the 60s emerge? and as i was because i was reading it came to me that it wasn't the decade. i thought it was. not at i say it wasn't at all. but it was different and more complicated than i had known. and that makes her good book. could you maybe introduce where we're going by reading the last paragraph of the introduction page? yeah. there's a theory that change happens not by winning hearts and minds. but by changing the law. after which harps and minds will follow among isolated people of the 50s. however, there's evidence of an earlier stage in the process of change. the moment when a singular man or woman sets out to confront other than evade some intimately personal conflict which inspires them and others to change the heart's minds of those who make the laws. so isolated by their personal histories, idiosyncrasies flaws and gifts. they have in common the courage the vision and a profoundly motivating need to fight for change in their time in the future. this book is about some of the best of them. and that's what we're going to talk about tonight many of the people that jim writes about in this book several of them are familiar names and we'll talk about a few of them. but the great the one of the huge contributions that i think the book makes is it introduces us to people who were enormously influential players and our nation's history and very few of us know who they were. and i thought we might start out for jim. tell us a little bit about harry. hay who was harry. hay. harry hayes started the first sustained organization for gay rights in the history in american history and he did so at the worst possible time. it was just after world war two. a time when when the united states the soviet union and nazi germany shared the view that homosexuals were criminals and potential security risks. and the church thought were wicked and the medical profession called psychopaths and it was at this moment that harry. hey who's then married with two? daughters decided and a member of the communist party by the way, which will come back to decided that it was time to start a gay rights movement. and everybody told me it was crazy and he did it anyway because among other things he was incredibly stubborn. and he did it. it was called the matter sheen society and it was a sort of like a alcoholic's anonymous group where you came and you talked about that issue, but it took him three or four years to even get someone. to join him in that effort and in that time he lost his family. yeah. what year are we in jim? when he started that when he actually got to start the it was 1951. when he thought about it, it was 1946-47. and in the time between he lost his family. he lost all his friends except the gay men that he new and we're her friend. where's his friends outside the home he lost his relationship with his daughters. although he he tried to keep it up with by paying the you know, the child support he was supposed to through his job at a at a weapon factory. this was in los angeles and they lived in a neighborhood that was called the swish alps because it was a gay scene. and it was a scene he had to keep himself away from which was he had terrible dreams as he as he moved towards starting this organization that falling down mountain sides pushing his children down that sides, you know hurting them and his wife. um, i don't i can't imagine a worse conflict. but he managed to do it and then as soon as he did it at their first convention, he was voted out of power. because of his communist connections and by then it was 1953 and everybody was scared to death of mccarthy. and he and they were at every right to be scared of mccarthy because like the combination of communism and homosexuality was really not at the time. it was everybody thought that they were that they were spies. derby there are being fired by the hundreds from the state department. um a couple things jumped out of me reading about hey and the and the environment one, you know, just as a fact that i had no idea that when the american army liberated the concentration camps in eastern europe. we did not set free the men who had pink triangles on their shoulders. they were just left there. they were returned to germany where whose courts had sentenced them to long prison terms and they got no credit for time served in the concentration camp. incredible and we knew that when we handed them over. that's 1945 1945 46. yep. so no 1945. yeah, moving forward a few years of phrase that comes up in the in the discussion of the medicine society is self-respect as a radical demand. can you elaborate on that? i think that does it says it all i mean, can you imagine a time when self-respect would be considered a radical demand? i mean, it's it's infuriating honestly, but at the time that was the case, that's effectively what at that point. hey and associates were not. advocating changes in laws or anything. they wanted self-respect. that was really the issue self-respect, but they also wanted the the gale stuff to stop where cops would demand payment from bars for forgive from gay bars and also that they that you know that they were generally oppressed. everywhere they went they were oppressed. they had to have they had to have sex in bathrooms. and so the police hung out in bathrooms. i mean it was. it was very sorry sight. so when harry hay is kicked out of the organization that he had labored and sweat for to found that doesn't end things who us about frank caminy. before i get to canada, i'll tell you where it went. it went to a guy who in. san francisco who? who turned the organization inside out he made psychologists part of their routine meetings psychologists who told them they were sick and needed help. he actually told the fbi that he would help them find gay people in san francisco. that didn't come out until very recent book, but it was it was it was terrible, but then frank hamady in washington. who had never joined the vanishing? was a perfect. he had got his astronomy from harvard. and was about to to start teaching at georgetown when he went to san francisco for a an academic meeting. presented a paper there, but was caught in a bathroom. having sex with someone else and was arrested. and then he was he was he was outed to the civil service where he then had been had been hired. because he couldn't teach at georgetown anymore, but they didn't know the civil service did not know this happened until sometime later when they called him in and said what happened in san francisco. and he refused to answer refused to answer, but then he just he just told him it was none of their business. and they fired him. and then he on a diet of 20 cents a day. i mean a an allowance of 20 cents a day because he had no money. he sold his car to get that. he began papering washington with with this story. and and complaining about the legal and moral. i don't know insult that this represented not only to him but to other gay men. who at the time we're still being fired at a very fast rate because now mccarthy was really in his. it is high moment. so he graduated then to being perhaps the most successful advocate for sexual the lack of the the absence of sexual discrimination and and he including a an appeal to supreme court on behalf of a guy named bruce scott. that was not successful. but they actually they the chief justice is clerics. thought it would be but they but he knew that the court would never take the case and that's what happened. frank how many kept kept fighting and fighting and fighting for years until finally he was able to go to the obama white house. and the obama white house canceled repealed clintons don't act don't tell policy. i skipped over the fact that frank amity was a decorated soldier in world war two an 88 millimeter. motor crewman and was proud of nothing than his infantryman combat infantry, and it's badge which he wore to that occasion? just without his case. that was after. half a century of his battling for his guests. yes. extraordinary we've got a lot of other administration. we have a lot of people to cover but before we leave the subject, could i ask you to read the last paragraph on page 47? yeah, frank how many harry hay? and they're known an unknown core cohorts. left the country a priceless legacy. they lifted the burden of shame for millions of people whom the medical profession called psychopaths. the church called wicked in the state called felons. and they replaced that bird with every citizen's birthright self-respect and respect of others. no one in the early homophile movement got more recognition in their lifetimes than harry. hay and frank kammany, but what deserves celebration as much as the victories they and their compatriots one. is the model they left behind? compotecomings famously wrote to be nobody by yourself in the world, which is doing its best day and night to make you everybody else. means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight. that is what they did. thanks, jim. the next section of the book is about. the origins of really of american feminism in the in the 20th century or i guess. um american feminism post the the voting amendment the 19th amendment of the constitution the key figure in this chapter. there are many women in this chapter are really kind of thrilling figures, but the one who struck me was paulie murray, tell us about paulie murray if you would thanks to a new movie. she's finally getting some credit for all she did but she began life. she was the she was the her mother died when she was three and she was sent to live with her grandparents. one of them was fought for the union in the civil war. and the other one was the child of a black slave and a white i mean she was the child of black slave, but she was also the mistress as it were but i don't think she was she was the rape victim of her owners, son. so she grew up with people on both sides of the south. and she was as a relative of their skin color of when she called in between race. which was especially a problem in school when she was young. because she was made fun of for that reason. and then when became a teenager. she thought she was missed miss identified. as a as a girl she was she felt she was a man. and she kept writing to doctors saying please help. i know there's been a mistake. so she was in between both racial and gender so that was her. that was her. that was her struggle, and that was her. weapon against the world as she found it later. and as she helps form it to me this that part of the story really begins when she's in law school at howard university can tell us about she was well educated. she went to hundred her background was middle class. her her family were nurses and professional people an academics and so she she she was she was. she was going around the country trying to save a sharecropper named odell waller. from the news and i mean a legal news. he had been he had been convicted of murder. wrongly but of course convicted in minutes by a white jury. that one stop she was she gave her spiel in front of thurgood marshall and leon ransom. who was then the dean of howard law school and was given as a result a full tuition scholarship to howard. she was the only girl on only woman in her class of all black men. how it is a black university. and she found herself. laughed at behind her back. she was not called in class as much of the other guys. as the other people and she was at the first the first instance aware of what she came to call jane crow. it was the combination of sexual discrimination gender discrimination and racial discrimination. it didn't it didn't or her final law school paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plessy versus ferguson the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her but she prevailed and wrote that thesis her professor spotters with robinson bet her $25 that that no $10 that it wouldn't be that plus he wouldn't be overturned for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-known brown decision, which he won in part by reading her thesis which spot is what brawson robinson brought him because he didn't realize he was really going for it. so, but she didn't address gender discrimination until years later. when she wrote a paper called jane crow. and that was the argument that ruth bader ginsburg used when she was still an attorney to argue to to write the brief that that one supreme court's decision. to declare sexual discrimination to be unconstitutional that was a huge breakthrough and it was because of polymerie and and ginsburg acknowledged that by putting her name on the brief. no her role as a figure in american legal history is enormous, but we know ginsburg and we know marshall we don't know her exactly and this we begin to see or ibmc reasons. that reasons why but i began to see the you know the nature of this discrimination very vividly around the time of the march on washington in 1962 by this point. she's a well-known figure certainly within the civil rights legal community. and the march on washington which we all know about is about to take place and she's not very pleased with the way. it's proceeding. so she rights to a philip randolph who was one of the organizers the labor leader who was one of the organizers of the march. could you? read what she said to him. page 74 74 yes. and by the way, hey philip randolph. and his and his march on washington movement from the 1940s hired her he was her first real employer. and this is what she said to him when rosa parks daisy bates all the september clark all the prominent women of the civil rights movement were giving seconds on the podium at the march on washington. certainly for not there. sorry. the time has come to say to you quite candidly, mr. randolph. that tokenism is as offensive when applied to women as when applied to --. that's the word. she always used. and that i have not devoted the greater part of my adult life to the implementation of human rights to now condone any policy, which is not inclusive. with any consequences no, in fact the day before the march he spoke at the national press club which then consigned women to the balcony? i mean really it was it shows you just how a complex and really diseased the relationship was between the black civil rights movement. and the and the when it's right movement, but then three years after the march on washington. she plays a key role in a very important moment in american feminist history. she does she introduced she was on the president's commission on still rights and specifically on the issue of feminism, especially the equal rights amendment. and she was well, i forget exactly what what happened, but betty friedan reached out to her. i know it was a piece in the new york times when she basically threatened action against in the half of feminism or women's rights. and betty friedan reached out and talk to her. and pollinary described to her what she thought of as an naacp for women. and betty friedan picked up that mantle and and went with it polly murray helped her introduce her to her network at the president's commission and the rest is history except that a couple of years later pauly murray quit now national organization of women, which he helped to start because of a lack of diversity. she said it was just not the organization. she she wished to help she was looking beyond that to a movement of multiple discriminations against indigenous people against against people from other countries against you know a class race and gender. yes. she was not willing to sorry have a century ago half a century ago. exactly. so she was a pioneer of what's now been called intersectional feminism. right next subject of third section of the book is about civil rights movement, obviously an enormous moment in american history what it might begin with a little bit of backstory on this the history of black men and their military service in this country. yeah, this is a chapter someone different because it tries to rectify the imbalance between well, it tries to minimize the the effect that men coming home from the war had on the civil rights logan and how important armed defense was to the nonviolent movement. when medgar evers, for example, we we know a lot about mid rivers. but not everything. when he came home from service. but from he served from d-day to the battle of the bulge. when he came home. he was on the bat on his way home on the back of a bus in uniform with his discharge papers and full of metals. and when the bus stops for people to eat lunch, he was left on the bus. i can't even listen. this is in the 1940s there. this is 1940s. yeah late 45-46 it was 46. and that year was a was a an election year midterm election year. and medgar evers and his brother charles decided they were going to vote. which no one had ever done in their county. and they they went through the their parents were told don't let this happen because you're not gonna like what happens to them the parents told them what this white visitor had said. but they but they did not tell them not to go to the polling place and they did where they returned back by guns and you know. the threat of violence and they turned back and they got their own guns and walked back toward the polling place and they were about by more guns and decided wait. we don't really want to get killed. so they walk home they were not able to vote in 1946. and i mean it's it's striking to me. that we're still talking about voting rights. there's going to be a debate in the senate tonight. maybe it's going on already about voting rights. how could this be? it's disgusting. there's a a historical precedent relating to this order about. black soldiers returning from world war one and there's a quote that i i could read the quote or do you want to read the quote the no. other way, okay now let me read this. this is a six. six year old girl remembering when the last black veterans of world war one came home to alabama and she never forgot sitting up nights with her grandfather who kept a shotgun on his lap waiting for the clan. she remembered him saying i don't know how long i would last if they came breaking in here, but i'm getting the first one who comes through the door. she stayed up with him. she remembered because i wanted to see it. i wanted to see him shoot that gun. was that six year old? rosa parks she already had the to fire in the belly as you as we say. i think that. you know frederick douglass. purged black men to join the civil war on the union side because he was convinced that if they did their standing in the country would be as regular citizens and w would be too boy said the same thing in world war one and neither of them got any credit. in fact, what happened was when they came home and uniform they were met by white terrace who said where that uniform again, and you will die. and that happened to one of the people that i'm that i write about. oh you want to write you want to talk about isaac woodard at this point indeed. let's let's do isaac woodard was a he went in as a private came home as a tech sergeant. he was working with a with a an all black unit in in the on the pacific fit in the pacific theater. and when he came home. was on a bus. going home to winnsboro, south carolina, north carolina. where his wife was waiting for? and he when they made a stop he had to go to the bathroom and so he told the driver i need to go to the bathroom. and the driver said no. and he's in fact, he said no -- it and and isaac woodard said talk to me like i'm a man. just like you which i think before the war. he would never have said that. and so the driver without knowing without letting and letting him know went to a phone called a head to batesburg and and told the police there was somebody on his bus was making trouble got debates bird. where he was met by the entire police force of batesburg, which was two guys the chief of police and deputy. the chief police the driver told me to get out and talk to that you least he did. and before you get a word out. the chief of police beat him in the head with a special baton that was you know, rigged for real impact of a spring-loaded. he's in uniform right? he's in uniform. and he finally he managed to get the baton away from the guy. and started fighting and the deputy came around and put his put his gun on on water and he told him he would shoot him if he didn't stop so he didn't stop and and the chief of police kept beating at one point. if they could tell later that he had ground his baton into woodard's eyes. which indicates that woodard had made the mistake of looking directly at it? what word was blind for the rest of his life? ah, what can i say and and truman took his case up. he was talked. he was talked to by the naacp and you know, truman was a real hero when it came to civil rights. he's really given credit for it, but he he was the first president or candidate to campaign in harlem. truman said to his attorney general you got to look into this and if necessary and if right bring charges against this chief of police. that was just unheard of in the south in 1946 and was this around the same time that truman integrated the armed forces? oh god, no. well, i mean it was yes. it was the first time. yeah, he that was about 1950. but yeah, he was the first to try. it's really happened then but yeah, it was the first to to make it a policy. anyway woodard was was blind for the rest of his life and never knew. truman had come in for him that that in fact the trial took place and the judge in the trial was absolutely on woodard side. and and actually set a bunch of precedents for civil rights law. in the time going forward was alienated from his from his town and and that and that and woodard never knew about any of this and that this judge who was in charleston had never particularly shown any interest in civil rights issues defending the rights of black people, but he was so horrified by this needless to say i guess for that period the jury acquitted the police chief. correct course in minutes. yeah, in fact, he took a walk. around town so that they couldn't quit them too fast. and his wife was in the office was in the courtroom and first into tears. and what had never forgot? great an incredible story. the last section of the book is about ecology a word that probably didn't even exist back then but i did actually yeah my my fall um, we know a lot about racial racial carson who is a key figure in this chapter the you know, the great writer and naturalist who moved from studying the seashore to studying what was happening to our birds and wrote silence spring, which i think is probably maybe the one that comes closest to it is ralph nader's unsafe at any speed the book that changes the world's view of something in this case ddt, but there's a second character that you pair her with even though they never met and that's norbert wiener the most as he was called in a newspaper headline when he was 12 years old the most remarkable boy in the world, i think page 149. yeah. yeah. yeah. shall i read some or yeah, i think read that from the bottom pay bottom page for 149. norbert weiner was 12 years old when rachel carson was born. but he was the most unlikely 12 year old. well others his age were in fifth or sixth grade. he was entering his freshman year at tufts university. in 1906. that was the that was the article in in the world calling in the most remarkable in the world. and it's hard to imagine anyone who better fit that title. he told the world reporter. he had learned much more from reading ernest heckles the riddle of the university in german than homer in greek since homer was just telling stories. yes, he said of course. he looked have fun swimming is my forte. he said but i like studying too when i have participated in the boys games. i turned to my huxley or my spencer. suggestions for them which led my mind to greater things. so these greater things we never goes to ends up at mit extremely eccentric character widely acknowledges a genius of peculiar life. it's actually i wish we had more time to read about some of norbert wieners peculiarities because they are really something but what you know, he's talking as a 12 year about the greater things you want. what were the greater things? where did norbert weiner go with his life with that brilliance? he got his doctorate in his post doctorate work at. various team universities as postdoc was with bertram russell and john dewey. he was just a genius that not only mathematics but the logic of mathematics and it was a time when computers were being developed. at a time when the computer was a person with a slide rule and a pencil. literally, that was what they were called. he was put into the war effort in 1940 41. in order to deal with the luftwaffe, which was raining terror over britain at the time and which was much higher and faster than anybody knew before the war started. um, he was famous for work in brownian motion, which i go into but he was really interested in the fact and he came to this through his wartime work that you could put people and and mechanical things including electrical mechanical things. in a single task so he conceived of of anti-aircraft. as the combination of people on the ground the gunner etc. and a a circle of causality between the airplane in the sky the speed of the airplane the maneuvers the airplane the ability to pilot to to do evasive maneuvers. and around circle of information. which was you know, there was no enemy in this process. it was just a circle of information which helped the guy on the ground bring that guy down, but he can't he changes and i'm gonna push you a little bit because i want to leave room for questions about but his relationship to the military changes radically and this begins to be the place where he incarcer though. they never met a kind of coming together. could you talk a little bit about that? yeah, the military was responsible all kinds of horrible. the military and in corporate america were responsible some very serious. i imprecations on the i mean it was it was a time when science was accomplishing incredible things. but among those incredible things was the atomic bomb napalm cyclon b, which which hitler used in the concentration camps? as well as as well as synthetic fertilizers synthetic synthetics of all sorts, which poised in the atmosphere and poisoned the ground that farmers were to work on. it it was a time when actually during the war los angeles. thought it had a chemical attack because the the fumes from newly muscular cars were choking people. and and after that then the military actually started experimenting on the american public with like dropping radio radioactive materials to find out you know, what dose actually cause a problem. they experimented on all kinds of people in hospitals in you know. over schools over over domestic over suburbs. it was it was extremely irresponsible behavior and we still don't know the extent of it. although a lot of has come out in the clinton administration where does wiener come in? weiner when when the war was over and he saw some of the stuff happening in in the environment, but but also the the militarization of american society and american science. he refused to have anything else to anything to do with military science and at mit, which was almost completely subsidized at least this the rad lab was almost completely subsidized my military. that was an incredible position to take and he was thought to be, you know, crazy for taking it everybody thought he was just being norbert. but in fact, he never worked for the military and military science again. and he wrote a book after he wrote a book called cybernetics. which was impossible to understand for most people he wrote a book called the human use of human beings. which was incredibly radical for its time. it talked about it talked about the necessity of treating labor fairly at a time when the great strike wave of 1946 1947 had you know had made. basically workers into communists so we know. by taking this very strong in public position against the military misbehavior in domestic life. the parallel if i may read something from your book, i think you very eloquently stayed. what what's similar between what he's doing and what rachel carson and her campaign against ddt another poisons in the environment. what is she doing and you write? by confronting the effects of science practice mainly in the pursuit of power and profit. and by calling for scientific innovations to be accessible and understood by politicians policymakers and the general public before they were deployed. carson and weiner advanced a compelling argument namely that nature was neither a thing apart from humankind nor any longer even holy natural since its anointed masters were ever more assertively rearranging the earth. as evidence of the dangers inherent in that mastery. they shined a very bright light on the masters at work. and changed our lives i think in many ways. i agree. um, we want to go to questions. if you have questions, please put them in the q&a, but i think do that what better way to end the discussion the formal discussion of a book jim then by your reading if you would the last paragraph of the epilogue on page 205? okay. i'm going back to the way you started the conversation. my generation however, the idea too what that's the idea. yeah. my generation had our victories to we're looking back i can't help feeling that people like those in this book were the more authentic rebels. in part because they didn't feel think of themselves that way. in a decade in a nation, perhaps ready or with the program than ever before they defied the most powerful forces and conventions of their time just to keep the people they were in the country and it always promised to be thanks to that they lit up half for the rest of us. to a somewhat less imperfect union which is about the best thing any citizen can do. a great way to end the book and the formal part of the evening, and i'd like to turn to questions from everybody who's listening if you have something that as i said, please put it in the q&a. here's a question about poly murray. did she ever resolve her gender confusion? i'm not sure. um, she because of her. feeling about who she was the male part of herself. she was just appointed in love many times because she was only attracted to heterosexual women, but she did get over it to the extent that she was a hero. i mean, how much more can you do with that conflict and what she did? and in fact at the end of her life she went to seminary because they had never had alter girls in the church. so she went to episcopal seminary and became a priest knowing she would have only three years before mandatory retirement when she was done. i mean that speaks wonders, but she also had a a companion at the end of her life whom she loved and who loved her. so, um, so that extent. yes, she did overcome her conflict. thank you. here's a question all the way from providence rhode island from someone named allison pell. she asks, obviously this is a different take on this time in various individuals impact on change what most of all should we take away from the book and what does this teach us about the way history is written. i think more than anything. it's about extraordinary people. whose stubbornness and conflict teaches them every day? how to make change without you know without their taking any lessons from anyone. it's just because they wanted to be who they were. and have the rights of that they were due. including self-respect i think it's about that simple. well, isn't that just a kind of a variation on what's historically been called the great man theory of history that individual. individuals in that theory obviously, they're their leaders of nations and such but that's exactly you're kind of saying the same thing that you don't have to be the leader of a nation. to be able to make this change if you are the right person at the right moment or at least to get the change happening. i would argue coming else. i would argue that. the book that a president united states or a senator has joe manchin and cinema or not is the one who conveys to the president of the united states or the senate the the injustice of the position. they've been given and i think you know they gather other people around them and movements start from what they've done. but i think ultimately those people in power don't come up with these ideas themselves. um, here's a question from jane with the dumbing down of sensible discussions with the advent of social media. what hope is there for genuine movements for social clinical change? well just as it's difficult not to be discussed by the lack of progress and so right. you can't ignore the progress we've made in gay rights. in feminism and and certainly ecology. we haven't won all those battles. but we're further ahead than we were then and progress as martin luther king said the ark of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. it is very long sometimes. so these people are here among us now and they're in the process of doing the things that these unknown figures that you've mostly unknown figure some american not fairly recent american history. they could move the world. yeah. yep. that's okay. that's a very positive view look on it. can you here's here's an anonymous questioner says do you think there are people? well, that's the same thing. i just asked. let me give try this one. well, i think we know the answer to this but gregory asks david halberstam did a fairly comprehensive look at the 50s. why did you decide to dig deeper into that fascinating decade another way of asking that what the key way is your book different from david's halberstam's book the fifties. he his book on the 50s was. a very good for one thing, but also it it covered. in depth the things we know about the 50s. in shallow and it didn't deal really with with the people. well did it did deal but fleetingly over the the social issues that this book addresses. um, i don't have any other questions there now if you've got them come with them, but because i it's always good. in any discussion of serious issues to take a moment for some humor with jim's permission. i'd like to read a little bit more about norbert weiner. may i jim please? yes. okay. so this is wiener after he's established as a very well-known figure as a genius. he's at mit. jim writes if he was fluent in a dozen languages and socially inept in all of them as of colleague put it a foreigner wherever he was. he got lost easily at his frequent meanderings through the mit labs where he worked for 45 years. some labs posted lookouts to warn of his approach because wiener was known to cut into ongoing conversations abruptly and holy out of context while reading a book or lost in thought he would walk the halls with one finger tracing the wall when he reached the open door of a classroom or laboratory. he was known to follow his finger inside and around its walls back to the hallway. he stopped to have a conversation. he sometimes forgot which way he had been walking. once he asked whether he had been walking toward the lunchroom or away from it, so he would know if he had had lunch or not. i just think that's a nice my favorite is that he swam on his back so he could smoke a cigar while he was swimming. well, the reason why i didn't cite that is my father did the same thing. it was really did. he really well. he did it with the cigarette and only you know, he loved the backstroke. anyway, we are moving a little bit far from the topic. i want i want to thank you jim we are running out of time and thanks a library and thank community bookstore and thank all of you who have dialed in tonight to listen to this or those who will be watching it shortly on on the recorded version, will be posted tomorrow. so with that i'm going to say again. thanks, jim and turn it back over to marshall. yes, and i'm gonna add my thanks to you jim and dan to you for really orchestrating such a masterful conversation about the book and all of the readings that you you wove in really helped a lot and you know, so. um important to tell the stories of individuals and elevate them and the power that they have to actually affect change. because that inspires us all i mean there was some pretty pretty shocking and an awful things that folks were were battling against that you describe. so anyway, i want to thank everybody who's come for being here and tell you that the program was recorded and will be on our our youtube page tomorrow and just tell you a little bit about what's coming down the pike later this month in an early february. we we will have a another program about a book. it's called the last last slave ship with ben raines who discovered the clotilda which is the last known slave ship that brought in slave people here from africa. illegally. he discovered that ship in the bayou of alabama and he will be talking about not only his his experience. he's a journalist, but what it means for all of us, um, and what happened to the the people are on that ship and then later later in february early, february and money. perry will be here to talk about south to america. so all which is to say that i hope that i i see that we have the upcoming programs link in the chat and i hope that everyone, you know explores that and joins us for more programs later this month into february and the spring we're so grateful to both of you for and jim for this with this fantastic fantastic that you know, it doesn't get more pure than. talk about people. and their lives and how it affects it has affected and changed things and thank you for digging them up. and thanks to all of you for being here tonight. so on that note, i hope everyone has a wonderful eveninggreetingl archives flagship building in washington dc which sits on the ancestral lands of the nokache tank peoples. i'm david ferio archivist of the united states as a pleasure to welcome you to today's conversation with kevin boyle and suzanne e smith about boyle's new book the shattering before we begin i'd like to tell you about two programs coming up soon on our youtube channel.
New-yorkUnited-statesAnn-arborMichiganAlabamaNorth-carolinaBrooklynUnited-kingdomWashingtonCanadaRussiaGreece delivers a compassionate and insightful group portrait of singular men and women who spoke out on lgbtq issues women's rights civil rights and the environment in the 1950s, not the complacent era that we all think it is. so tonight james's conversation partner is writer daniel okrent. and before i introduce the two of them. i just have a few quick notes for you first while the book is not released for a few more weeks. this is kind of a sneak peek. you can pre-order it and we will put a link in the chat to the website of a local brooklyn bookstore the community bookstore so that you can do that if you so desire with just a couple of clicks. second like all of our talks you have the option tonight to use closed captioning that features that the bottom of your screen life transcript and finally i want to invite you all to share your questions tonight for james type them throughout the program into the q&a box at the bottom of your screen and dan will will take as many of them as he has time for towards the end of the program. now, let me say a word about each. our guests and i will happily hand it off to them. james our gaines is the former managing editor of time life and people magazines and the author of several books, including wits and days and nights of the algonquin roundtable evening in the palace of reason a study of johann sebastian bach in the early enlightenment, and for liberty and glory, washington lafayette and their revolutions. and daniel ocrants books include great fortune the epic of rockefeller center, which was a finalist for the 2004 pulitzer prize in history last call the rise and fall of prohibition and the guarded gate bigotry eugenics and the law that kept two generations of -- italians and other europeans out of america. he was also the first public editor of the new york times. welcome to you both. thank you so much for being here. i'm excited to hear your conversation and take it away. thank you very much. marsha. i'm very happy to be here and i want to thank the library and the bookstore for making this possible and i would say hello to my old friend jim. hi jim. hi, dan, jim and i met during the 1960s. we're very old. in ann arbor, michigan at a moment when people of our generation thought that we were changing the world. we didn't change the world that much but we did take a lot of self-congratulatory moments to so how different were we were but what one learns from reading jim's book and reading the 50s is that the 60s were the consequence of the 50s as marsha said when she introduced us the complacent fifties were not complacent for those people who are fighting enormous battles that had great consequences in the 60s and many of them still have consequences a very positive sense today. jim why did you write this book? um initially it was because my kids came home from school one day and said, why is our time not as exciting as the sixties. yes, and i had to say you know, i'm well, i didn't say that. it was actually fraught it wasn't all fun and games they were talking about the music i think. um, but then i started think i was looking for subject after i finished. the washington lafayette book and and i started to think. how was it that this black and white decade led to this polychromatic riot of the 60s history just doesn't work that way. you know, it's it's it doesn't work my decades. as you well know. so i started to think why you know, how did the 60s emerge? and as i was because i was reading it came to me that it wasn't the decade. i thought it was. not at i say it wasn't at all. but it was different and more complicated than i had known. and that makes her good book. could you maybe introduce where we're going by reading the last paragraph of the introduction page? yeah. there's a theory that change happens not by winning hearts and minds. but by changing the law. after which harps and minds will follow among isolated people of the 50s. however, there's evidence of an earlier stage in the process of change. the moment when a singular man or woman sets out to confront other than evade some intimately personal conflict which inspires them and others to change the heart's minds of those who make the laws. so isolated by their personal histories, idiosyncrasies flaws and gifts. they have in common the courage the vision and a profoundly motivating need to fight for change in their time in the future. this book is about some of the best of them. and that's what we're going to talk about tonight many of the people that jim writes about in this book several of them are familiar names and we'll talk about a few of them. but the great the one of the huge contributions that i think the book makes is it introduces us to people who were enormously influential players and our nation's history and very few of us know who they were. and i thought we might start out for jim. tell us a little bit about harry. hay who was harry. hay. harry hayes started the first sustained organization for gay rights in the history in american history and he did so at the worst possible time. it was just after world war two. a time when when the united states the soviet union and nazi germany shared the view that homosexuals were criminals and potential security risks. and the church thought were wicked and the medical profession called psychopaths and it was at this moment that harry. hey who's then married with two? daughters decided and a member of the communist party by the way, which will come back to decided that it was time to start a gay rights movement. and everybody told me it was crazy and he did it anyway because among other things he was incredibly stubborn. and he did it. it was called the matter sheen society and it was a sort of like a alcoholic's anonymous group where you came and you talked about that issue, but it took him three or four years to even get someone. to join him in that effort and in that time he lost his family. yeah. what year are we in jim? when he started that when he actually got to start the it was 1951. when he thought about it, it was 1946-47. and in the time between he lost his family. he lost all his friends except the gay men that he new and we're her friend. where's his friends outside the home he lost his relationship with his daughters. although he he tried to keep it up with by paying the you know, the child support he was supposed to through his job at a at a weapon factory. this was in los angeles and they lived in a neighborhood that was called the swish alps because it was a gay scene. and it was a scene he had to keep himself away from which was he had terrible dreams as he as he moved towards starting this organization that falling down mountain sides pushing his children down that sides, you know hurting them and his wife. um, i don't i can't imagine a worse conflict. but he managed to do it and then as soon as he did it at their first convention, he was voted out of power. because of his communist connections and by then it was 1953 and everybody was scared to death of mccarthy. and he and they were at every right to be scared of mccarthy because like the combination of communism and homosexuality was really not at the time. it was everybody thought that they were that they were spies. derby there are being fired by the hundreds from the state department. um a couple things jumped out of me reading about hey and the and the environment one, you know, just as a fact that i had no idea that when the american army liberated the concentration camps in eastern europe. we did not set free the men who had pink triangles on their shoulders. they were just left there. they were returned to germany where whose courts had sentenced them to long prison terms and they got no credit for time served in the concentration camp. incredible and we knew that when we handed them over. that's 1945 1945 46. yep. so no 1945. yeah, moving forward a few years of phrase that comes up in the in the discussion of the medicine society is self-respect as a radical demand. can you elaborate on that? i think that does it says it all i mean, can you imagine a time when self-respect would be considered a radical demand? i mean, it's it's infuriating honestly, but at the time that was the case, that's effectively what at that point. hey and associates were not. advocating changes in laws or anything. they wanted self-respect. that was really the issue self-respect, but they also wanted the the gale stuff to stop where cops would demand payment from bars for forgive from gay bars and also that they that you know that they were generally oppressed. everywhere they went they were oppressed. they had to have they had to have sex in bathrooms. and so the police hung out in bathrooms. i mean it was. it was very sorry sight. so when harry hay is kicked out of the organization that he had labored and sweat for to found that doesn't end things who us about frank caminy. before i get to canada, i'll tell you where it went. it went to a guy who in. san francisco who? who turned the organization inside out he made psychologists part of their routine meetings psychologists who told them they were sick and needed help. he actually told the fbi that he would help them find gay people in san francisco. that didn't come out until very recent book, but it was it was it was terrible, but then frank hamady in washington. who had never joined the vanishing? was a perfect. he had got his astronomy from harvard. and was about to to start teaching at georgetown when he went to san francisco for a an academic meeting. presented a paper there, but was caught in a bathroom. having sex with someone else and was arrested. and then he was he was he was outed to the civil service where he then had been had been hired. because he couldn't teach at georgetown anymore, but they didn't know the civil service did not know this happened until sometime later when they called him in and said what happened in san francisco. and he refused to answer refused to answer, but then he just he just told him it was none of their business. and they fired him. and then he on a diet of 20 cents a day. i mean a an allowance of 20 cents a day because he had no money. he sold his car to get that. he began papering washington with with this story. and and complaining about the legal and moral. i don't know insult that this represented not only to him but to other gay men. who at the time we're still being fired at a very fast rate because now mccarthy was really in his. it is high moment. so he graduated then to being perhaps the most successful advocate for sexual the lack of the the absence of sexual discrimination and and he including a an appeal to supreme court on behalf of a guy named bruce scott. that was not successful. but they actually they the chief justice is clerics. thought it would be but they but he knew that the court would never take the case and that's what happened. frank how many kept kept fighting and fighting and fighting for years until finally he was able to go to the obama white house. and the obama white house canceled repealed clintons don't act don't tell policy. i skipped over the fact that frank amity was a decorated soldier in world war two an 88 millimeter. motor crewman and was proud of nothing than his infantryman combat infantry, and it's badge which he wore to that occasion? just without his case. that was after. half a century of his battling for his guests. yes. extraordinary we've got a lot of other administration. we have a lot of people to cover but before we leave the subject, could i ask you to read the last paragraph on page 47? yeah, frank how many harry hay? and they're known an unknown core cohorts. left the country a priceless legacy. they lifted the burden of shame for millions of people whom the medical profession called psychopaths. the church called wicked in the state called felons. and they replaced that bird with every citizen's birthright self-respect and respect of others. no one in the early homophile movement got more recognition in their lifetimes than harry. hay and frank kammany, but what deserves celebration as much as the victories they and their compatriots one. is the model they left behind? compotecomings famously wrote to be nobody by yourself in the world, which is doing its best day and night to make you everybody else. means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight. that is what they did. thanks, jim. the next section of the book is about. the origins of really of american feminism in the in the 20th century or i guess. um american feminism post the the voting amendment the 19th amendment of the constitution the key figure in this chapter. there are many women in this chapter are really kind of thrilling figures, but the one who struck me was paulie murray, tell us about paulie murray if you would thanks to a new movie. she's finally getting some credit for all she did but she began life. she was the she was the her mother died when she was three and she was sent to live with her grandparents. one of them was fought for the union in the civil war. and the other one was the child of one of them fought for the union in the civil war. and the other was the child of a black slave and. i mean, she was the child of a black slave, but she was also the mistress, as it were. but i don't think she was, she was the rape victim of her owner's son. so she grew up with people on both sides of the south, and she was of their skin color. what's she called in between race. which was especially a problem in school when she was young, because she was made fun of or that. and then as she became a teenager, she thought she was misidentified as a girl. she felt she was a man. and she kept writing to doctors saying, please help me. i know there has been a mistake. so she was in between both racial and gender. so, that was her struggle and that was her weapon. against the world as she found it later. >> and, as she helps perform it. to me that part of the story really begins when she is in law school at howard university. can you tell us about that? >> yes, she was well educated. she went to howard. her background was in middle class. her family were nurses and professional people. and academics. so she was going around the country trying to save a sharecroppers named o'dell walter from the news struck. i mean, a legal news. he had been convicted of murder wrongly. but of course, convicted in minutes by a white jury. struck that one stop she bergeron gave her steele in front of thurgood marshall and leon ran son who was on the dina powered law school. it was given as a result a full tuition scholarship to howard. she was the only girl, the only woman in her class of all black men all. because howard is a black university. and she found herself laptop behind her back, she was not called in class as much as the other guys, as the other people. and at the first instance she was aware of what she came to call jane crow. it was the combination of sexual discrimination and gender discrimination and racial discrimination. her final of school paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plus c versus ferguson, the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her, but she prevailed and wrote that thesis. her professors better $25 that, no $10 that it wouldn't be, that plus he wouldn't be a return for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-known brown decision which she won in part by reading her thesis. which robinson brought him, because he didn't realize he was really going for. bergeron but she didn't address gender discrimination until years later. when she wrote a paper called jane crow. and that was the argument that ruth bader ginsburg used when she was still an attorney to write the brief that won the supreme court's decision to declare sexual discrimination to be unconstitutional. that was a huge breakthrough. and it was because -- and ginsburg acknowledged that by putting her name on the brief. >> her role as a figure in american legal history is enormous. but we know ginsburg, and we know marshall, we don't know her. >> exactly. >> and we begin to see, i begin to see reasons why, not reasons, but i begin to see the nature of this discrimination very vividly around the time of the march on washington, 1962. by this point, she is a well-known figure certainly within the civil rights legal community. and the war march on washington which we all know about is about to take place. and she is not very pleased with the way it is perceiving. so she writes to a philip randolph who is one of the organizers. a labor leader will. could you read what she said to him, page 74? >> yes. and, by the way, a philip randolph in his march on washington movement from the 1940s hired her. he was her first real employer. and this is what she said to him when rosa parks, daisy bates, september clark's, all the prominent women of the civil rights movement were given seconds on the podium at the march on washington. 74, i am not there, sorry. the time has come to say you quite candidly, mr. randolph, that tokenism is as offensive when applied to women as of when applied to niger's. that was the word show is used. and that i have not devoted the greater part of my adult life to the implementation of human rights to now condone any policy which is not inclusive. >> were there any consequences? >> no. in fact, the day before the mark he spoke at the national press club which then consigned women to the balcony. i mean, really. it shows you just how complex and diseased the relationship was between the black civil rights movement and the women's rights movement. >> but then, three years after the march on washington, she plays a key role in a very important moment in american feminist history. >> she does. she introduced, she was on the presence commission on civil rights and specifically on the issue of feminism. especially the equal rights amendment. and she was i forget exactly what happened but, betty frieden reached out to her. i know. it was a piece in the new york times when she basically threatened action on behalf of feminism, or women's rights. and betty for dan reach out and talk to her and, polyamory described to her which she thought of as a -- for women. and betty frieden picks up that mantle and went with it. polyamory alter. introducer to her network at the presidents commission and the rest is history except for a couple years later, polyamory quit the organization which she helped to start because of a lack of diversity. she said it was not the organization she wished to help. she was looking beyond that. to a movement of multiple discriminations, against indigenous people, against people from other countries, against a class, race, and gender. and she was not going to -- >> sorry? >> half a century. ago >> half a century ago, exactly. so she was a pioneer of what is now being called intersectional feminism. >> right. next subject, the third section of the book is about the civil rights movement. obviously an enormous moment in american history. i wonder you might begin with a little bit of back story on this. the history of black men and their military service in this country. >> this isn't a chapter somewhat different, because it tries to rectify the imbalance between. well, it tries to minimize the effect that men coming over the civil war had in the civil rights movement and how important armed defense was to the nonviolent movement. . when medgar evers, we know a lot about medgar evers but not everything. when he came from service, he served from d-day to -- . when he came home, he was on his way home on the back of us in uniform with his discharge papers and full of medals. and when the best opt for people to eat lunch, he was left on the bus. i can't even imagine. >> this is in the 1940s? >> yes this is late 40 5:46. i think it was 46. and that year was an election year, midterm election year. and medgar evers and his brother charles had decided that they were going to vote. which no one had ever done in their county. and they, their parents were told, don't let this happen because you are not going to like what happens. the parents told him what this white visitor had said but they did not tell them not to go to the polling place and they did. where they were turned back by guns. and the threat of violence. they turned back and they got their own guns and they walked back towards the polling place, and they were there to find more guns. and they said well we don't really want to get killed so they walked a home. they were not able to vote in 1946. and i mean, it is striking to me that we are still talking about voting rights. there is going to be a debate in the senate tonight. maybe it is going on already, about voting rights. how can this be? it's disgusting. >> it's a historical precedent related to this -- about black soldiers returning from world war one. and there is a quote that, i could be the quarter do you want to read the quote? >> either way. >> okay, let me read this. this is a six year old girl remembering when the last black veterans of world war i came home to alabama. and she never forgot sitting up nights with her grandfather who kept a shotgun on his lap waiting for the klan. she remembered him saying, i don't know how long i would last if they came breaking in here but i am getting the first one comes through the door. she stayed up with him, she remembered, because i wanted to see it. i wanted to see him shoot that can. who was that six-year-old? >> rosa parks. she already had the fire in the belly, as we say. i think that, frederick douglass urged blackmon to join the civil war on the inside because he was convinced that if they did their standing in the country would be as regular citizens. and w b devoid said the same thing and world war i. and neither of them got any credit. in fact, what happened was that they when they came home in uniform they were met by white terrorists who said wear that uniform again and you will die. and that happened to one of the people that i write about. >> do you want to talk about isaac water at this point? >> indeed, let's do. isaac water was, he went in as a private and came home as a tech sergeant. he was working with a all black unit in, on the pacific theater. and when he came home he was on a bus he was going to north carolina where his wife is waiting for him and when they made a stop the head of the bathroom and so he told the driver, and need to go to the bathroom. and the driver said no. in fact he said no god it. and isaac woodward said, tell it to me like i'm a man. just like you. which i think before the war he would've never said that. and so the driver, without knowing, without letting him know went to a phone, called ahead to -- and told the police there with somebody on has bus who is making trouble. got to base bergh where he was met by the entire police force of mates burke which was two guys, the chief of police and a deputy. the chief of police, the drivers want to get on top the chief of police. he did. and before he can get a word out, the chief of police beat him in the head with a special baton that was rigged for real impact. spring loaded. >> he is in uniform, right? >> he is in uniform. and he finally manages to get the baton away from the guy, and started fighting, and the deputy came around and put his gun on water and told him he would shoot him if he didn't stop. so he didn't stop and the chief of police kept beating him. at one point, they can tell later that he had ground his baton into waters eyes, which indicates that whatever had made the mistake of looking directly at him. would urge was blind for the rest of his life. what can i say? and truman took his case up. he was talked to you by the naacp. and you know truman, who was a real hero when it came to civil rights. he is really giving credit for it but he was the first presidential candidate ever to campaign -- . truman said to his attorney general, you've got to look into this, and if necessary, and if right bring charges against this chief of police. that was just unheard of in the south in 1946. he that was about 1950. but yeah, he was the first to try. it's really happened then but yeah, it was the first to to make it a policy. anyway woodard was was blind for the rest of his life and never knew. truman had come in for him that that in fact the trial took place and the judge in the trial was absolutely on woodard side. and and actually set a bunch of precedents for civil rights law. in the time going forward was alienated from his from his town and and that and that and woodard never knew about any of this and that this judge who was in charleston had never particularly shown any interest in civil rights issues defending the rights of black people, but he was so horrified by this needless to say i guess for that period the jury acquitted the police chief. correct course in minutes. yeah, in fact, he took a walk. . needless to say for that period, the jury acquitted the police chief. >> of course, in that. >> it took a walk around town, so they could not quite and fast. and his wife was in the courtroom, and he burst into tears. woodward never forgot him. >> a incredible story. the last section of the book is about ecology. aware that did not exist back then. -- >> it did actually. >> my fault. >> [laughs] we know a lot about rachel carson, who was a key figure in this, the great writer and naturalist, who was studying the -- what was happening to our birds. she wrote that, science in the spring, which is probably the one that comes closest to it as it is unsafe at any speed, it changes the world's view of something. and in this case, ddt. there is a second character that you pair her with. that is nor burt weiner. and when he was 12 years old, the most remarkable boy in the world. i think page 1:49, you got it? >> yes. shall i read some? >> >> read that, from the bottom of page 1:49. >> gilbert weiner was 12 years old when rachael carson was born. but he was in the most tonight -- unlikely 12-year-old. while he was the fifth or sixth grade, he was introduced your tufts university. . in 1906, that was the article in calling him the most remarkable boy in the world. it is hard to imagine anyone who fit that title. he told the world reporter that he had learned much more from reading the riddle of the university in german and homer and drake, since homer was just telling stories. yes, he said, of course he like to have fun, having fun as my forte, but i like studying too. when i've participated in the boys games, i turn to my huxley on my spinster. suggestions for them which led my mind to greater things. >> and so these greater things. weiner ends up at a mighty, extremely eccentric character. widely knowledge as a genius. peculiar life. i wish we had more time to learn about nor burt weiner's peculiarities. but he's talking a 12-year-old about the greater things in life. where did nor burt weiner go with his life at that point. >> he got his doctorate in his post doctorate work at various universities in his post talk was with bertrand russell and john dewey. he was just a genius and not only with mathematics, but the logic of mathematics. it was a time when computers were being developed, in a time when the computer was a person with a slide role and a pencil. literally, that was what they were called. it was put into the war effort in 1940 or 41. that was in order to deal with the lift off, which was reigning terror over britain at the time. that was much higher and faster than anybody had known before the war had started. he was famous for working in brownie in motion, which i will not go into, but he was really interested in the fact, and he came to this through his work, that you could put people and mechanical things, including electrical mechanical things, in a single task. and so he could see an anti-aircraft as a combination of people on the ground, the gunner, et cetera, and a circle of causality between the airplane in the sky, the speed of the airplane, the maneuvers of the airplane, in the ability of the pilot to do evasive maneuvers. and put a round circle of information which was, there was no enemy in this process. there was just a circle of information which helped the guy on the ground bring that guy down. >> but i will push you a little bit, because i want to leave room for questions. but his relationship to the military changes radically, and this begins to be the place where he and carson, even though they never met, are coming together. can you talk about that? >> the military was responsible for all kinds of horrible -- the military in corporate america are responsible for some very serious implications on the environment. it was a time when science was accomplishing incredible things. among those incredible things was the atomic bomb, napalm, as i call on the, which hitler used in the concentration camps, as well as synthetic fertilizers, and synthetics of all sorts which poison the atmosphere, poison the crown for fires. and it was a time when, during the war, los angeles thought they had a chemical attack because the fumes from newly-muscular cars were choking people. after that, the military started experimenting on the american public with dropping radioactive materials to find out what dose actually caused a problem. and they experimented on all kinds of people. hospitals, over schools, over suburbs, and it was extremely irresponsible behavior. we still don't know the extent of it, although a lot of us come out in the clinton administration, actually. >> and where it is weiner come in? >> weiner, when the war was over and he saw some of the stuff happening, in the environment, but also the militarization of american society, in american science, they refused to have anything to do with military science. and at a mighty, it was almost completely subsidized, almost completely subsidized by the military. that was an incredible position to take. he was thought to be crazy for taking it. everybody thought he was just being nor bridge, but he never worked for the military or military science again and he wrote a book called cybernetics, which was impossible to understand for most people, and there was a book called the human youth of human beings. it was incredibly radical for its time. it talked about the necessity of treating labor fairly at a time when the great strike wave of 1940, six 1947 had made basically workers into communists. >> winner, by taking this very strong in public position against the military misbehavior, in domestic life, the parallel if i may read something from your book, i think you very eloquently stated what is similar between heat what he is doing, and what rachel carson in her campaign against ddt, and the other places of the environment, what is she doing. you write, by confronting the effects of science, practice mainly in the pursuit of power and profit, and by calling for scientific innovations to be accessible and understood by politicians, policy makers, and the general public before they were deployed, carson in weiner advanced a compelling argument, namely that nature was neither a thing apart from human time or was not even holy natural since anointed masters were ever more assertively rearranging the earth. as evidence of the dangers inherent in that mastery, they shined a very bright light on the masters at work. it changed our life in many ways. we want to go to questions, if you have questions, please put them in the q&a, but before we do that, what a better way to end the discussion then by your reading the last paragraph of the epilogue on page 205. >> okay. >> i'm going back to the way you started the conversation. >> that is the idea -- >> what? >> that is the idea. [laughs] my generation had our victories to, but looking back, i can't help it feeling that people like those in this book would be more authentic rebels. in part, because they did not think of themselves that way. in a decade, right here than ever before, they defied the most powerful forces and conventions of their time, just the people that they were in the country and i've always promised to be. thanks so, that they have lit a path for the rest of us, to a somewhat less perfect union, which is about the best thing any citizen can do. >> a great way to in the book, and the formal part of the evening. i would like to turn to questions from everybody who is listening, if you have something, as i said, please put it in the q&a. and here is a question about polyamory. did she ever resolve her gender confusion? >> i'm not sure. because of her feeling about who she was, the middle part of herself, she was disappointed in love. she was only attracted to heterosexual women. but she did get over to the extent that she was a hero. how much more can you do with that conflict then what she did? at the end of her life, she went to seminary, because they had never had altar girls in the church. she went to the seminary and became a priest knowing that she would only have three years before a mandatory retirement. that speaks wonders, but she also had a companion at the end of her life, when she, loved into loved her. and so that, she did overcome her conflict. >> thank you. here's a question all the way from providence, rhode island, from someone named allison pell. she, obviously, this is a different take on this time in various individuals impact on change. would most of all should we take away from the book? in what does this teach us about the way history is written. >> i think more than anything, it is about extraordinary people. who stubbornness, and conflict teaches them every day how to make change without their taking any lessons from anyone. it just because they wanted to be who they were. they want to have the rights that they were due, including self respect. i think is about that simple. >> isn't that kind of a variation on what has historically been called the great in theory of history. individuals not theory obviously, their leaders of nations and such. >> you are kind of saying the same thing, but you don't have to be the leader of a nation to be able to make this change if you are the right person at the right time. or at least to get change happening. >> i would argue, that a president united states or senator, as joe manchin and sinema are not, is the one who conveys to the president of the united states or the senate, the in justice of the position that they have been given and i think they gather the people around them, the start from what they've done and i think what they've done and those people power don't come up those ideas themselves. >> and here's a question for, jane with the dumbing down a central discussions from social media, what hope is there for meaningful social political change? >> well just as it is difficult not to be disgusted by the lack of progress in civil rights, you can't ignore the progress we have made in gay rights, in feminism, and in certainly ecology. we haven't won all of those battles but we are further ahead than we were than. and as martin luther king said, the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. it is very long sometimes. >> so these people are here among us now, and they are in the process of doing the things that these unknown figures that, mostly unknown figures from fairly recent american history they could move the world. >> yes, that is the case. >> that is a very positive look on it. here is an anonymous question. do you think there are people. that is the same thing i just asked. let me try this one, well i think we know the answer to this by gregory asks, david iverson did a fairly comprehensive look at the 50s, why do you decide to look deeper into that decade? another way of asking that, what's key way is you are booked different from david happenstance book in the 50s? >> his book on the 50s was very good, for one thing. also it covered in depth of the things that we know about the 50s in -- . in shallow. and it didn't feel really with the people. well, it's a deal but fleetingly over the social issues that this book addresses. >> i don't have any other questions there. if you've got them, come with them. but i think it is always gotten any discussion of serious issues to take a moment where some humor with gyms permission i would like to read a little bit more about nor bird we mere. may i, jim? >> okay yes. >> so this is weiner after he's establishes a very known well known figure. jim writes that he was fluent in a dozen languages. socially inept and all of them. as a colleague put its, a foreigner wherever he was. he got lost easily on his frequent meandering sweep through the m.i.t. laps where he worked for 45 years. some labs posted look outs to warn of his approach, because weiner was known to cut into ongoing conversations abruptly and holy out of context. while reading a book, or lost in thought, he would walk the halls with one finger chasing the wall. when he reached the open of a classroom or laboratory, he was known to follow his finger inside and around its walls back to the hallway. when he stopped to have a conversation, he sometimes forgot which way he had been walking. once, he asked whether he had been walking towards the lunchroom, or away from it so he would know if he had had lunch or not. i just think that that is a nice. >> my favorite is that he swam on his back so he could smoke a cigar while he was swimming. >> well the reason i didn't cite that is my father did the same thing. >> did he really? >> well, he did it with a cigarette. i mean he left the backstroke. we are moving a little bit far from the topic. i want to thank you, jim. we are running out of time. and thanks to the library, and thanks to the community bookstore, and thanks to all of you who have dialed into night to listen to this. or those who will be watching it shortly the recorded version which will be posted tomorrow. so with that i'm going to say thanks, goodbye to gin, and turn it over to marcia. >> yes, and i'm going to add my thanks to you jim and to you diane for orchestrating such a masterful conversation about the book. and all of the readings that we woke generally helped a lot. it is so important to tell the stories of individuals and elevate them and the power that they have to actually effect change because that inspires us all. i mean, there were some pretty shocking and awful things that folks were battling against that you described. so, anyway, i want to thank everybody who has come for being here. and to tell you that the program has been recorded and will be on our youtube page tomorrow. and, just tell you a little bit about what is coming down the pipe later this month and in early february, we will have a another program about a book. it is called the last last slave ship with ben rains who discovered that clotilda which is the last known slave ship that brought enslaved people here from africa illegally. he discovered that ship in the bayou of alabama, and he will be talking about, not only his experience. he is a journalist. but what it means for all of us. and what happened to the people who are on that ship. and then later in february, early february, monte power it will be here to talk about south america. so all of that is to say that i hope that, i see that we have the upcoming programs link in the chat and i hope that everyone explores that. and joins us for more programs later this month and into february and the spring. we are so grateful to both of you for, and jim, for this fantastic book. it doesn't get more pure than to talk about people, and their lives, and how, it has affected and changed things. and thank you for taking them up. and thanks to all of you for being here tonight. so on that note, i hope everyone has a wonderful evening and a good night. american history tv. mark leg, a professor of american culture the anniversary of michigan, recounts in the service about star-spangled banner and how it's meaning has evolved. at 10 pm eastern, author and professor, latrice donaldson reports on how black soldiers between the civil war and world war i use their military service to further civil rights exploring the american story. watch american history tv, saturdays on c-span two. and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online, anytime, at c-span.org slash history. greetings from the national archives flagship building in washington dc which sits on the ancestral lands of the nokache tank peoples. greetings from the national
GermanyNew-yorkUnited-statesAlabamaAnn-arborMichiganNigerBrooklynUnited-kingdomWashingtonRhode-islandRussia in february 8th is titled, the 50s, and underground history. i'm gonna tell you a little bit about what publishers weekly says. it says this revisionist history is packed with insights, it goes on to say that gains delivers a compassionate, insightful group portrait of singular men and women who spoke out on lgbtq issues, women's rights, civil rights and the environment in the 1950s. not the complacent area that we all maybe think it is. tonight, the partner's writer daniel -- and before i introduce it to them, i have a quick notes for you. first, while the book is not really for a few more, weeks it's a sneak peek. you can preorder it and we will put a link, to a local brooklyn bookstore, the community bookstore, so you couldn't do that if you desire with just a couple of clicks. second, and like all of our talks you have the option tonight to use close captioning, that features at the bottom of your screen. and finally, i want to invite you all to share your questions tonight for james, type them throughout the program into the q&a box at the bottom of the screen. and then we'll get that many of them as towards the end of the program. so, now let me say a word for each of our guests. i will happily handed off to them. james r. gains the former managing editor of time, life, and people magazines. and the author of several books including wits and, days and nights of the endowed unwound table evening in the palace of, reason a study -- early enlightenment. and for liberty and glory, washington, lafayette and the revolution. and daniel, great fortune, the epic rockefeller center, a finalist since 2004 pulitzer plies in history. last call, the rise and fall of prohibition. and the guarded gate. bigotry, eugenics, and the law that kept two generations of jews, et al, eons and other europeans out of america. he was also the first public editor of the new york times. welcome to you both, thank you so much for being here, i'm excited to hear your conversations, and take it away. >> thank you very wet, march, i'm happy to be here from the librarian bookstore for this past -- i want to say hello to my friend jim, hi jim. >> hey. >> jim and i met during the 1960s, were very old. in ann arbor, michigan, when people of our generation thought that we were changing the world, we didn't change the world that much, but we did take a lot of self-congratulatory moments to some -- different than we were. what one learns from reading jan's book, the 50s, is at the 60s where the consequence of the 50s, as marcia said when she introduced us. the complacent 50s were not complacent for those people, who are fighting enormous battles that had great consequences in the 60s and many of them still have consequences and a positive sense today. kids cjim, why did you write ths book? >> initially, was because my kids came home from school one day and said, why is our time not as exciting as the 60s. and i had to say, i didn't say that it was actually fraught, it wasn't all fun and games, they were talking about the music mostly. but then i started thinking for the subject, washington lafayette, and i started to think how was it that this black and white decade led to these the 60s. it just doesn't work that way. it doesn't work like that as you well know. so i started to think how did the 60s emerge, and as i was reading, it came to me that it wasn't the decade i thought it was. i can't say it wasn't at all but it was different and more complicated than i have known. >> and that makes for a good. book >> yes, it does. >> could you maybe introduce where we are going by reading the last paragraph, introduction page. >> there's a theory that change happens not by winning hearts and minds, but by changing the law. after which hearts and minds will follow. one isolated people into the 50s however there's evidence of an earlier -- in the process of change. the moment when a singular man or woman sits out to confirm rather than evade some intimately percival conflict, which inspires them and others to change the hearts and minds of those who make the laws. isolated by their personal histories, idiosyncrasies, false, and gifts they have the common courage vision and profoundly motivating mean to fight for change. the feud this book is about some of the messages in that. >> that's what we're gonna talk about tonight. many of the people that jim writes about in this book, some of them are familiar names and we talk a bit about a few of them. one of the huge contributions i think the book makes, introduces us to people who are enormously influential players in our nation's history, and very few of us know who they were. i thought we might start off jim, tell us a bit about harry hey, who is harry hey? >> are we, hey started the first sustained organization for gay rights in american history. and he did so, at a principle time. it will just after world war ii. a time when the united states, the soviet union, and nazi germany shared the view that homosexuals were criminal and potential security risks. and the church thought were wicked. and the medical profession called cycle paths. and it was at this moment that harriet hay than married with two daughters, decided a member of the communist party -- decided it was time to start the gay rights movement. everybody told him he was crazy, and he did it anyway, because among other things he was incredibly stubborn. and he did it, it was called the -- and it was sort of like an alcoholics anonymous group, where you came in talked about that issue. but it took him three or four years to even get someone to join him. in that effort. in that time he lost his family -- >> what year are we in, jim? >> when he started, he actually got to start the thing it was 1951. when he thought about it was 1946, 1947. and in the time between that he lost his family, lost his friends, except the game and that he knew and that were his friends outside the home. he lost his relationship with his daughters although he tried to keep it up by paying child support he was supposed to, through the job at the weapons factory. this was in los angeles. and they lived in a neighborhood that was called the swiss alps, because it was a gay scene. it was a scene he needed to keep himself away from, which he had terrible -- as he moved towards starting this organization. but falling down mountain sides, pushing his kids down mountain sides, hurting him and his wife. i can't imagine the worst conflict. but he managed to do it, then as soon as he did it at the first convention, he was voted because of his communist connections. by then, it was 1953. and everybody was scared to death of mccarthy. and they had every right to be scared of mccarthy, because the combination of communism and homosexuality is really not pretty at the time. everybody thought that they were spies. that they were being fired by the hundreds from the state department. a couple things jumped out of me reading about -- the environment. one was that a fact that i had no idea, the american army liberated the concentration caps in eastern europe we did not set free to those that had -- on their shoulders. >> correct. >> they were left there? >> they were returned to germany where the courts had sentence them to long prison terms. they got no credit for time's are in the concentration camp. we knew that when we handed them off. >> that's 1945? >> 1945, 1940, six. yeah >> moving forward a few years, a phrase that comes up and the discussion of the society is the self respect as a radical demand can you elaborate on that? >> i think that says it all, can you imagine a time when self respect could be considered a radical demands? i mean, it's infuriating honestly. but at the time, that was the case. >> that's effectively what at that point hate isn't so seats were not advocating changes or laws they wanted self respect that was really the issue. >> self respect but they also wanted the video stuff to stop where cops would demand payment from bars, from gay bars and also, they were generally oppressed. everywhere they went. they were real oppressed. they needed to have sex in bathrooms, so the police hung out in bathrooms. i mean it was very sorry site. >> so, when harry hayes is kicked out of the organization that he had labored and sweat to found that does -- tell us about frank? >> before i get to -- i'll tell you where it went. it went to a guy in san francisco who turn the organization inside. out he made psychologist part of the routine meetings. psychologist who told him they were sick, they needed help. he actually told the fbi that it would help them find gay people in san francisco. that didn't come out until a very recent book. but it was terrible, but frank in washington who had never join the society, was he had got his ph.d. in astronomy from harvard. he was about to start teaching at georgetown when he went to san francisco for an academic meeting. because the paper there, it was brought in a bathroom having sex with someone else. and was arrested, and then he was outed to the civil service, where he then had been hired. because he couldn't teach a georgetown anymore. cisco. and but the civil service would not know that this happen until sometime later when they called him in and said, what happened in san francisco? and he refused to answer, refused to answer, but then he just told them it was none of their business and they fired him. and then he, on a diet of 20 cents a day. i mean i'm alliance of 20 cents a day because they had no money. he sold his car to get that. he began preparing washington with this story. and complaining about the legal and moral insults that this represented. not only to him but two other gay man who at the time were still being fired at a very fast rate. because now mccarthy was really in his high moment. so he graduated then to being perhaps the most successful advocate for sexual. the absence of sexual discrimination. and, including a appeal to the supreme court on behalf of a guy named ruth scott that was not successful but actually, the chief gusts justices thought it would be. but he knew the court would never take the case. and that is what happened. frank i many kept fighting and fighting for years. until finally he was able to go to the white house and. the obama white house, and they canceled clintons don't ask don't tell policy. i skipped over the fact that franky anthony was a decorated soldier on world war ii. and 1 million millimeter motor crewmen and was prouder that of his infantry that twitchy were to that occasion. >> but that was, in his case, that was after half a century of his battling. >> yes. >> extraordinary. we have a lot of people to cover, but before we leave the subject, could i ask you to read the last paragraph on page 47? >> >> yes. and, by the way, a, frank i many carry hay and their own none an own known court such a priceless legacy. they look to the bergman of shame for millions of people who the medical profession called psychopath, the church called wicked, and the states called felons. and they replace that burden with every citizen's birth right. self respect, and the respect of others. no one in the early homophile movement got more recognition in their lifetimes than harry hey and frank hannity. but what deserves celebration as much as are the victories they and their compatriots one is the model that they look behind. e. cummings famously wrote, to be noted by yourself in a world which is doing its best day and night to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight. that is what they did. >> thanks, jim. for that section of the book it is about the origins of, really of american feminism in the 20th century, right? i guess, american feminism post the voting amendment. the 19th amendment within the constitution. the key figure in this chapter, there are many women in this chapter who are really the kind of thrilling figures. but the one that struck me was polly murray. tell us about polyamory, if you would? >> thanks to a new movie she is finally getting some credit for all that she did. she began life, she was the. her mother died when she was three, and she was sent to live with her grandparents. one of them was, fought for the union in the civil war. and the other one was the child of a black slave and. i mean, she was the child of a black slave, but she was also the mistress, as it were. but i don't think she was, she was the rape victim of her owner's son. so she grew up with people on both sides of the south, and she was of their skin color. what's she called in between race. which was especially a problem in school when she was young, because she was made fun of or that. and then as she became a teenager, she thought she was misidentified as a girl. she felt she was a man. and she kept writing to doctors saying, please help me. i know there has been a mistake. so she was in between both racial and gender. so, that was her struggle and that was her weapon. against the world as she found it later. >> and, as she helps perform it. to me that part of the story really begins when she is in law school at howard university. can you tell us about that? >> yes, she was well educated. she went to howard. her background was in middle class. her family were nurses and professional people. and academics. so she was going around the country trying to save a sharecroppers named o'dell walter from the news struck. i mean, a legal news. he had been convicted of murder wrongly. but of course, convicted in minutes by a white jury. struck that one stop she gave her speel in front of thurgood marshall and leon ran son who was on the dina powered law school. it was given as a result a full tuition scholarship to howard. she was the only girl, the only woman in her class of all black men all. because howard is a black university. and she found herself laughed at behind her back, she was not called in class as much as the other guys, as the other people. and at the first instance she was aware of what she came to call jane crow. it was the combination of sexual discrimination and gender discrimination and racial discrimination. her final of school paper was about how the equal protection argument of the constitution could prevail over plus c versus ferguson, the separate but equal decision of the 19th century. her classmates laughed at her, but she prevailed and wrote that thesis. her professors better $25 that, no $10 that it wouldn't be, that plus he wouldn't be a return for the next 25 years. in fact, it was overturned by thurgood marshall in the well-known brown decision which she won in part by reading her thesis. which robinson brought him, because he realize he was really going for it. but she didn't address gender discrimination until years later. when she wrote a paper called jane crow. and that was the argument that ruth bader ginsburg used when she was still an attorney to write the brief that won the supreme court's decision to declare sexual discrimination to be unconstitutional. that was a huge breakthrough. and it was because -- and ginsburg acknowledged that by putting her name on the brief. >> her role as a figure in american legal history is enormous. but we know ginsburg, and we know marshall, we don't know her. >> exactly. >> and we begin to see, i begin to see reasons why, not reasons, but i begin to see the nature of this discrimination very vividly around the time of the march on washington, 1962. by this point, she is a well-known figure certainly within the civil rights legal community. and the march on washington which we all know about is about to take place. and she is not very pleased with the way it is proceeding. so she writes to a philip randolph who is one of the organizers. a labor leader will. could you read what she said to him, page 74? >> yes. and, by the way, a philip randolph in his march on washington movement from the 1940s hired her. he was her first real employer. and this is what she said to him when rosa parks, daisy bates, september clark's, all the prominent women of the civil rights movement were given seconds on the podium at the march on washington. 74, i am not there, sorry. the time has come to say you quite candidly, mr. randolph, that tokenism is as offensive when applied to women as of when applied to negros. that was the word show is used. and that i have not devoted the greater part of my adult life to the implementation of human rights to now condone any policy which is not inclusive. >> were there any consequences? >> no. in fact, the day before the march he spoke at the national press club which then consigned women to the balcony. i mean, really. it shows you just how complex and diseased the relationship was between the black civil rights movement and the women's rights movement. >> but then, three years after the march on washington, she plays a key role in a very important moment in american feminist history. >> she does. she introduced, she was on the presence commission on civil rights and specifically on the issue of feminism. especially the equal rights amendment. and she was i forget exactly what happened but, betty frieden reached out to her. i know. it was a piece in the new york times when she basically threatened action on behalf of feminism, or women's rights. and betty for dan reach out and talk to her and, polly murry described to her which she thought of as a -- for women. and betty frieden picks up that mantle and went with it. polly murry alter. introducer to her network at the presidents commission and the rest is history except for a couple years later, polly murry quit the organization which she helped to start because of a lack of diversity. she said it was not the organization she wished to help. she was looking beyond that. to a movement of multiple discriminations, against indigenous people, against people from other countries, against a class, race, and gender. and she was not going to -- >> sorry? >> half a century ago. >> half a century ago, exactly. so she was a pioneer of what is now being called intersectional feminism. >> right. next subject, the third section of the book is about the civil rights movement. obviously an enormous moment in american history. i wonder you might begin with a little bit of back story on this. the history of black men and their military service in this country. >> this isn't a chapter somewhat different, because it tries to rectify the imbalance between. well, it tries to minimize the effect that men coming over the civil war had on the civil rights movement and how important armed defense was to the nonviolent movement. when medgar evers, we know a lot about medgar evers but not everything. when he came home from service, he served from d-day to--. when he came home, he was on his way home on the back of a bus in uniform with his discharge papers and full of medals. and when the bus stopped for people to eat lunch, he was left on the bus. i can't even imagine. >> this is in the 1940s? >> yes this is late 40 5:46. i think it was 46. and that year was an election year, midterm election year. and medgar evers and his brother charles had decided that they were going to vote. which no one had ever done in their county. and they, their parents were told, don't let this happen because you are not going to like what happens. the parents told him what this white visitor had said but they did not tell them not to go to the polling place and they did. where they were turned back by guns. and the threat of violence. they turned back and they got their own guns and they walked back towards the polling place, and they were there to find more guns. and they said well we don't really want to get killed so they walked a home. they were notma's want to get killed so they walked a home. they were not able to vote in 1946. and i mean, it is striking to me that we are still talking about voting rights. there is going to be a debate in the senate tonight. maybe it is going on already, about voting rights. how can this be? it's disgusting. >> it's a historical precedent related to this -- about black soldiers returning from world war one. and there is a quote that, i could be the quarter do you want to read the quote? >> either way. >> okay, let me read this. this is a six year old girl remembering when the last black veterans of world war i came home to alabama. and she never forgot sitting up nights with her grandfather who kept a shotgun on his lap waiting for the klan. she remembered him saying, i don't know how long i would last if they came breaking in here but i am getting the first one comes through the door. she stayed up with him, she remembered, because i wanted to see it. i wanted to see him shoot that can. who was that six-year-old? >> rosa parks. she already had the fire in the belly, as we say. i think that, frederick douglass urged blackmon to join the civil war on the inside because he was convinced that if they did their standing in the country would be as regular citizens. and w b devoid said the same thing and world war i. and neither of them got any credit. in fact, what happened was that they when they came home in uniform they were met by white terrorists who said wear that uniform again and you will die. and that happened to one of the people that i write about. >> do you want to talk about isaac water at this point? >> indeed, let's do. isaac water was, he went in as a private and came home as a tech sergeant. he was working with a all black unit in, on the pacific theater. and when he came home he was on a bus he was going to north carolina where his wife is waiting for him and when they made a stop the head of the bathroom and so he told the driver, and need to go to the bathroom. and the driver said no. in fact he said no god it. and isaac woodward said, tell it to me like i'm a man. just like you. which i think before the war he would've never said that. and so the driver, without knowing, without letting him know went to a phone, called ahead to -- and told the police there with somebody on has bus who is making trouble. got to base bergh where he was met by the entire police force of mates burke which was two guys, the chief of police and a deputy. the chief of police, the drivers want to get on top the chief of police. he did. and before he can get a word out, the chief of police beat him in the head with a special baton that was rigged for real impact. spring loaded. >> he is in uniform, right? >> he is in uniform. and he finally manages to get the baton away from the guy, and started fighting, and the deputy came around and put his gun on water and told him he would shoot him if he didn't stop. so he didn't stop and the chief of police kept beating him. at one point, they can tell later that he had ground his baton into waters eyes, which indicates that whatever had made the mistake of looking directly at him. would urge was blind for the rest of his life. what can i say? and truman took. his case up. he was then truman took his case up talked to you by the, naacp. and you know if he was truman, a real who was a real hero when it came to -- when it came to civil rights civil rights.. he is really giving you can kind of that. credit for it but he was the first presidential he was the first presidential candidate to every campaign at harlem. candidate ever to campaign--. truman said to his attorney general, you've got to look into this, and if if necessary, if, right necessary, and if right bring charges wing charges against chief of police against this chief of. police. that was just unheard of in the south in >> 1946. was this the same time that truman integrated the armed forces? >> it was the first time, that was about 1950. >> but he was the first to try. it's a new happened to him, but he was the first to make it a policy. >> and what it was supply for the rest of his life, he never knew the truman had come in for him and that a trial took place and that the judge in the trial was actually citing a bunch of precedents for the time going forward. he was alienated for his town -- >> in this judge, who is in charleston, have never particularly shown any interest in civil rights or defending the rights of black people, but he was so horrified by this. needless to say for that period, the jury acquitted the police chief. >> of course, in that. >> it took a walk around town, so they could not quite and fast. and his wife was in the courtroom, and he burst into tears. woodward never forgot him. >> a incredible story. the last section of the book is about ecology. aware that did not exist back then. -- >> it did actually. >> my fault. >> [laughs] we know a lot about rachel carson, who was a key figure in this, the great writer and naturalist, who was studying the -- what was happening to our birds. she wrote that, science in the spring, which is probably the one that comes closest to it as it is unsafe at any speed, it changes the world's view of something. and in this case, ddt. there is a second character that you pair her with. that is nor burt weiner. and when he was 12 years old, the most remarkable boy in the world. i think page 1:49, you got it? >> yes. shall i read some? >> >> read that, from the bottom of page 1:49. >> gilbert weiner was 12 years old when rachael carson was born. but he was in the most tonight -- unlikely 12-year-old. while he was the fifth or sixth grade, he was introduced your tufts university.. in 1906, that was the article in calling him the most remarkable boy in the world. it is hard to imagine anyone who fit that title. he told the world reporter that he had learned much more from reading the riddle of the university in german and homer and drake, since homer was just telling stories. yes, he said, of course he like to have fun, having fun as my forte, but i like studying too. when i've participated in the boys games, i turn to my huxley on my spinster. suggestions for them which led my mind to greater things. >> and so these greater things. weiner ends up at a mighty, extremely eccentric character. widely knowledge as a genius. peculiar life. i wish we had more time to learn about nor burt weiner's peculiarities. but he's talking a 12-year-old about the greater things in life. where did nor burt weiner go with his life at that point. >> he got his doctorate in his post doctorate work at various universities in his post talk was with bertrand russell and john dewey. he was just a genius and not only with mathematics, but the logic of mathematics. it was a time when computers were being developed, in a time when the computer was a person with a slide role and a pencil. literally, that was what they were called. it was put into the war effort in 1940 or 41. that was in order to deal with the lift off, which was reigning terror over britain at the time. that was much higher and faster than anybody had known before the war had started. he was famous for working in brownie in motion, which i will not go into, but he was really interested in the fact, and he came to this through his work, that you could put people and mechanical things, including electrical mechanical things, in a single task. and so he could see an anti-aircraft as a combination of people on the ground, the gunner, et cetera, and a circle of causality between the airplane in the sky, the speed of the airplane, the maneuvers of the airplane, in the ability of the pilot to do evasive maneuvers. and put a round circle of information which was, there was no enemy in this process. there was just a circle of information which helped the guy on the ground bring that guy down. >> but i will push you a little bit, because i want to leave room for questions. but his relationship to the military changes radically, and this begins to be the place where he and carson, even though they never met, are coming together. can you talk about that? >> the military was responsible for all kinds of horrible -- the military in corporate america are responsible for some very serious implications on the environment. it was a time when science was accomplishing incredible things. among those incredible things was the atomic bomb, napalm, as i call on the, which hitler used in the concentration camps, as well as synthetic fertilizers, and synthetics of all sorts which poison the atmosphere, poison the crown for fires. and it was a time when, during the war, los angeles thought they had a chemical attack because the fumes from newly-muscular cars were choking people. after that, the military started experimenting on the american public with dropping radioactive materials to find out what dose actually caused a problem. and they experimented on all kinds of people. hospitals, over schools, over suburbs, and it was extremely irresponsible behavior. we still don't know the extent of it, although a lot of us come out in the clinton administration, actually. >> and where it is weiner come in? >> weiner, when the war was over and he saw some of the stuff happening, in the environment, but also the militarization of american society, in american science, they refused to have anything to do with military science. and at a mighty, it was almost completely subsidized, almost completely subsidized by the military. that was an incredible position to take. he was thought to be crazy for taking it. everybody thought he was just being nor bridge, but he never worked for the military or military science again and he wrote a book called cybernetics, which was impossible to understand for most people, and there was a book called the human youth of human beings. it was incredibly radical for its time. it talked about the necessity of treating labor fairly at a time when the great strike wave of 1940, six 1947 had made basically workers into communists. by taking this very strong positio . it >> winner, by taking this very strong in public position against the military misbehavior, in domestic life, the parallel if i may read something from your book, i think you very eloquently stated what is similar between heat what he is doing, and what rachel carson in her campaign against ddt, and the other places of the environment, what is she doing. you write, by confronting the effects of science, practice mainly in the pursuit of power and profit, and by calling for scientific innovations to be accessible and understood by politicians, policy makers, and the general public before they were deployed, carson in weiner advanced a compelling argument, namely that nature was neither a thing apart from human time or was not even holy natural since anointed masters were ever more assertively rearranging the earth. as evidence of the dangers inherent in that mastery, they shined a very bright light on the masters at work. it changed our life in many ways. we want to go to questions, if you have questions, please put them in the q&a, but before we do that, what a better way to end the discussion then by your reading the last paragraph of the epilogue on page 205. >> okay. >> i'm going back to the way you started the conversation. >> that is the idea -- >> what? >> that is the idea. [laughs] my generation had our victories to, but looking back, i can't help it feeling that people like those in this book would be more authentic rebels. in part, because they did not think of themselves that way. in a decade, right here than ever before, they defied the most powerful forces and conventions of their time, just the people that they were in the country and i've always promised to be. thanks so, that they have lit a path for the rest of us, to a somewhat less perfect union, which is about the best thing any citizen can do. >> a great way to end the book, and the formal part of the evening. i would like to turn to questions from everybody who is listening, if you have something, as i said, please put it in the q&a. and here is a question about polly murry. did she ever resolve her gender confusion? >> i'm not sure. because of her feeling about who she was, the male part of herself, she was disappointed in love. she was only attracted to heterosexual women. but she did get over to the extent that she was a hero. how much more can you do with that conflict then what she did? at the end of her life, she went to seminary, because they had never had altar girls in the church. she went to the seminary and became a priest knowing that she would only have three years before a mandatory retirement. that speaks wonders, but she also had a companion at the end of her life, when she, loved and loved her. and so that, she did overcome her conflict. >> thank you. here's a question all the way from providence, rhode island, from someone named allison pell. she, asks, obviously, this is a different take on this time in various individuals impact on change. would most of all should we take away from the book? in what does this teach us about the way history is written. >> i think more than anything, it is about extraordinary people. who's stubbornness, and conflict teaches them every day how to make change without their taking any lessons from anyone. it just because they wanted to be who they were. they want to have the rights that they were due, including self respect. i think is about that simple. >> isn't that kind of a variation on what has historically been called the great in theory of history. individuals in that theory obviously, they're leaders of nations and such. >> you are kind of saying the same thing, but you don't have to be the leader of a nation to be able to make this change if you are the right person at the right time. or at least to get change happening. >> i would argue, that a president united states or a senator, as joe manchin and sinema are not, is the one who conveys to the president of the united states or the senate, the injustice of the position that they have been given and i think they gather the people around them and movements start from what they've done and i think what they've done and those people power don't come up those ideas themselves. >> and here's a question from jane with the dumbing down a central discussions from social media, what hope is there for meaningful social political change? >> well just as it is difficult not to be disgusted by the lack of progress in civil rights, you can't ignore the progress we have made in gay rights, in feminism, and in certainly ecology. we haven't won all of those battles but we are further ahead than we were then. and as martin luther king said, the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. it is very long sometimes. >> so these people are here among us now, and they are in the process of doing the things that these unknown figures that, mostly unknown figures from fairly recent american history they could move the world. >> yes, that is the case. >> that is a very positive look on it. here is an anonymous question. do you think there are people. that is the same thing i just asked. let me try this one, well i think we know the answer to this by gregory asks, david iverson did a fairly comprehensive look at the 50s, why do you decide to look deeper into that decade? another way of asking that, what's key way is you are booked different from david happenstance book in the 50s? >> his book on the 50s was very good, for one thing. also it covered in depth of the things that we know about the 50s in shallow. and it didn't feel really with the people. well, it's a deal but fleetingly over the social issues that this book addresses. >> i don't have any other questions there. if you've got them, come with them. but i think it is always gotten any discussion of serious issues to take a moment where some humor with gyms permission i would like to read a little bit more about nor bird we mere. may i, jim? >> okay yes. >> so this is weiner after he's establishes a very known well known figure. jim writes that he was fluent in a dozen languages. socially inept in all of them. as a colleague put its, a foreigner wherever he was. he got lost easily on his frequent meandering sweep through the m. i. t. labs where he worked for 45 years. some labs posted look outs to warn of his approach, because weiner was known to cut into ongoing conversations abruptly and holy out of context. while reading a book, or lost in thought, he would walk the halls with one finger tracing the wall. when he reached the open of a classroom or laboratory, he was known to follow his finger inside and around its walls back to the hallway. when he stopped to have a conversation, he sometimes forgot which way he had been walking. once, he asked whether he had been walking towards the lunchroom, or away from it so he would know if he had had lunch or not. i just think that that is a nice. >> my favorite is that he swam on his back so he could smoke a cigar while he was swimming. >> well the reason i didn't cite that is my father did the same thing. >> did he really? >> well, he did it with a cigarette. i mean he loved the backstroke. we are moving a little bit far from the topic. i want to thank you, jim. we are running out of time. and thanks to the library, and thanks to the community bookstore, and thanks to all of you who have dialed into night to listen to this. or those who will be watching it shortly the recorded version which will be posted tomorrow. so with that i'm going to say thanks, goodbye to jim, and turn it over to marcia. >> yes, and i'm going to add my thanks to you jim and to you diane for orchestrating such a masterful conversation about the book. and all of the readings that we wove in helped a lot. it is so important to tell the stories of individuals and elevate them and the power that they have to actually effect change because that inspires us all. i mean, there were some pretty shocking and awful things that folks were battling against that you described. so, anyway, i want to thank everybody who has come for being here. and to tell you that the program has been recorded and will be on our youtube page tomorrow. and, just tell you a little bit about what is coming down the pipe later this month and in early february, we will have a another program about a book. it is called the last last slave ship with ben rains who discovered that clotilda which is the last known slave ship that brought enslaved people here from africa illegally. he discovered that ship in the bayou of alabama, and he will be talking about, not only his experience. he is a journalist. but what it means for all of us. and what happened to the people who are on that ship. and then later in february, early february, monte power it will be here to talk about south america. so all of that is to say that i hope that, i see that we have the upcoming programs link in the chat and i hope that everyone explores that. and joins us for more programs later this month and into february and the spring. we are so grateful to both of you for, and jim, for this fantastic book. it doesn't get more pure than to talk about people, and their lives, and how, it has affected and changed things. and thank you for taking them up. and thanks to all of you for being here tonight. so on that note, i hope everyone has a wonderful evening and a good night. american history tv, saturdays on c-span two. exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 8:50 pm eastern, mark lake, professor moon musicology and american culture at the university michigan recounts the history of the star-spangled banner and how its meeting has evolved. and it's 1 pm eastern, author and professor latrice johnson, reports on how black soldiers between the civil war and world war i use their military service to further civil rights. exploring the american story, watch american history tv, saturdays, on c-span two. and find a full schedule on your program guide. or watch online, anytime, at c-span.org, slash history. the ancestral lands of the nokache tank peoples. greetings from the national archives flagship building in washington d.c. which sits on the national ends of the -- people i am the archivist of united states it is a pleasure to welcome you to today's conversation with kevin boyle about this new book the shattering. before i begin, i'd like to tell you about two programs coming up soon on our youtube channel. on wednesday, january 26th, at 1 pm, david keane will tel
GermanyNew-yorkUnited-statesRockefeller-centerAlabamaAnn-arborMichiganBrooklynWashingtonRhode-islandTogoRussia announce how they are getting ready in ferguson. we're also following president obama in asia and what happened during his face time with russia's vladimir putin. plus, america honors its war heroes with veterans day ceremonies around the country. in new york, dr. craig spencer leaves the hospital after being cured of ebola. first, in one hour, missouri governor will hold a press conference where he and local law enforcement will lay out their plans in the face of the grand jury decision in the michael brown case. trymaine lee has been in ferguson. what do we know about the potential timing of that grand jury decision? >> my sources say that governor nixon will announce plans around the protest, particularly the national guard will be redeployed and stationed along businesses. n to contain the protests from reaching area businesses. none has been confirmed. we'll know in an hour what those plans are. >> do we have any idea of when the timeline could be for this to wrap up. we know there's more testimony to be heard by that grand jury. any ideas about timing? >> i spoke to ed mcgee a few days ago and he said the timing remains mid-november. then after that day to day and week to week. now, this kind of lag has kind of made folks on the ground, particularly nervous about what may or may not happen. i just to want read a station from ashley yates, a co-creator of millin aal activists united. until the governor chooses to truly address the systematic issues that the murder. that's the sense there on the ground, is that 90-some days after the killing it's about michael brown, but there are systematic issues people are concerned about from the interactions with young men in the police to larger issues in the court system. so, it will be interesting what governor jay nixon has to say about the planning around the announcement. >> we'll be looking forward to your reporting on this issue. thank you. >> over to asia where president obama is working to strengthen ties between u.s. and china. on the second day of the apec meeting, president obama met with chinese president xi jinping a number of times and announced measures that could mean more jobs in the u.s. president obama also had some brief encounters with russian president vladimir putin. nbc news white house correspondent kristin welker is traveling with the president in beijing. what about those interactions with the american president and vladimir putin. >> reporter: president obama and vladimir putin met three times on the sidelines of apec economic summit, talking for about 15 to 20 minutes, according to white house officials. they discuss aid range of topics including iran, syria and, of course, ukraine. the united states, one of several western nations that imposed strict sanctions against russia for incursions into ukraine. the pictures show the frosty relationship between president obama and president putin, a stark contrast between president obama and xi jinping, who have also been at a number of odds including human rights. president obama and president xi had several meetings today, including a walk in the garden and dinner today. >> president obama, i would like to work with you to take a strategic and long-term view of our cooperation. i wanted to work with you to take our relationship into a new place. >> reporter: this is all a part of president obama's so-called pivot to asia with some critics saying he hasn't followed through on his promise to foster stronger ties with this region. the u.s. today touting two announcements including a new trade deal that will lower tariffs on high-tech goods, creating about 60,000 new jobs. >> these efforts are not always large and public. they don't always get a lot of attention, but they represent important strides in bringing our people closer together and making our empties stronger. >> reporter: this is the first stop on president obama's three-nation trip. next he heads to myanmar, also known as burma, where negotiations have stalled, something president obama will likely address when he meets with the leaders of that country. >> kristin welker in beijing, thank you. now to the fight against isis where 50 american service members are on the ground in anbar province. their mission to train and assist iraqi security forces. the most intense fighting continues to be in kobani where richard engel spent several days imbedded with kurdish forces on the front lines. >> reporter: the center of kobani is no more. a ghostly testament to the price this syrian town is paying for standing up to isis. but the town isn't abandoned. its kurdish people, men and women, have taken up arms and have been holding out for two months. they run through intersections to avoid enemy snipers or stay off the dangerous streets by tunnelling through walls. this man, 34 years old, is one of the top field commanders. many of the front line fighters here are women. they say the fanatics from isis are afraid to be killed by a woman. a dishonor the militants believe could cost them a spot in paradise. she doesn't believe that. they are afraid because of our conviction and our strength, she says. our female comrades aren't scared of isis. she took us to kobani city hall, now a front line position. she says there were about 40 isis fighters just in these rooms here. so, it's not that they're fighting between buildings and across streets, but room to room. the people of kobani have shown they will fight to the last man. and woman. a big part of isis's strength is its ability to intimidate. in many towns many people just ran away as soon as the militants showed up. not in kobani. richard engel, nbc news, turkey. >> thank you. you can catch more of richard's reporting in the battle against isis friday night at 9:00 right here on msnbc. let's get to the latest now on ebola where nurse kasey hicti -- kasey hiction being kaci hickox is on the move. they moved to freeport, maine, until they decide their next move. she says she's happy her life is back to normal. >> i remain just really thankful for all of the support that we have received, and also a bit, you know, disappointed at some of the negative things that i've heard. i hope that one day we as an american culture can get over this fear and can learn to show compassion instead. >> meanwhile in new york, dr. craig spencer is now ebola-free. he arrived back at his home a short while ago after being released from bellevue hospital. nbc's anne thompson is live outside bellevue hospital in new york. what do we know? >> reporter: i can tell you there is very much a celebratory mood here at bellevue hospital earlier today when dr. craig spencer walked out in front of cameras. speaker after speaker lauded dr. spencer for the five weeks that he spent over in guinea treating ebola patients with doctors without borders. then when it was dr. spencer's turn to talk, he in turn lauded the health care workers who took care of him here at bellevue. >> my early detection, reporting and now recovery from ebola speaks to the effectiveness of the protocols that are in place for health staff returning from west africa. i am a living example of how those protocols work and of how early detection is critical to both surviving ebola and ensuring that it is not transmitted to others. >> reporter: now, the hundred or so health care workers in contact with dr. spencer during his 19-day stay here, they will undergo what's called active monitoring. that's a 21-day period where their temperatures will be taken twice a day and they will be on the lookout for any symptoms of ebola. his two friends who came in contact with him before he was hospitalized, they too are under active monitoring. only one person is still quarantined. that is dr. spencer's fiancee and her quarantine ends on friday. >> nbc's anne thompson, thank you. let's go to weather where parts of the midwest and rockies are digging out with the first winter storm. in minnesota, two people died in car crashes caused by slippery road conditions. now some of those same areas are dealing with an arctic blast with temperatures falling anywhere between 20 and 30 degrees below normal. msnbc meteorologist dominica davis has more on what we can expect. >> hi, joy. well, the first part of this storm is over and that's the snow. but we do have those cold temperatures. that is going to hang on for quite some time. so, here's a look at the radar right now. you can see that snow's tapering off. basically up through the u.p. of michigan we're looking at the snow. the rest is just rain coming down from flint down past chicago and ft. wayne. the biggest story right now is the temperatures that we're going to be seeing. you can see the windchill. so, the cold has gone all the way down into texas. this is about the furthest south it will go. now it's going to spread off to the east over the next couple of days so, it's only eight states and the u.s. that are not going to be in on this bitter blast. that's basically up through the southeast down through hawaii and also through florida. the rest of us, we are in on these drastic drops in temperatures. look at the 24-hour temperature change. this will show you how potent this system is. we're down 49 degrees in amarillo. oklahoma, 40-degree drop in temperatures just in the past 24 hours. so, this is some of the worst weather we're going to see tomorrow. look at the cold. that's a high temperature in denver tomorrow of 10 degrees only. so, this is going to be brutal. not only for denver, but for much of the country. back to you, joy. >> all right. thank you very much, dominica davis. after the break we'll talk global tensions and problems facing president obama as he continues his eight-day tour through asia. plus, the new set of challenges confronting veterans of iraq and afghanistan, including the women who serve. as we go to break, here are some scenes from arlington national cemetery where vice president joe biden laid a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier. comes now sayin. 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lived. oh, i knew i forgot something. i'll just do it now. well, we're boarding. no, i'll use citi mobile. it takes two seconds, better safe than sorry, right? yeah, who knows if we'll even get service on the island? what! no service? seriously? you guys might actually have to talk. to each other? we do it all the time. i like it. should we? no. bank from almost anywhere with the citi mobile app. to learn more, visit citi.com/easierbanking welcome back. the big news today out of the summit of world leaders in china is that president obama and vladimir putin actually said words. to each other. away from the cameras, fof course, and not for very long. hopefully it wasn't as awkward as the back pat putin tried to pull off today. nevertheless, they spoke for 20 minutes and discussed three areas of foreign policy frustrating the obama administration right now, sometimes because of vladimir putin. ukraine, syria and iran. two-term governor bill richardson is former ambassador to the united nations. g let's start with one of those three areas. let's start with china, because they are on an asia summit sprup this weird dance between the u.s., china and russia where china seeds ms to be playing a nice with both sides. where do we stand vis-a-vis with china and are they helpful or not helpful regarding russia? >> they're not helpful. clearly, putin is trying to device a wedput a wedge between us and the chinese. the ruble is in very bad shape. oil prices have hurt the russian economy, so what putin wants to do is get closer to china to be a counterattack against us by having a natural gas deal with china, working closer on regional issues. but what we must do is we have to engage china. we need china on climate change. if there's no climate change talks, successful talks, it's because china doesn't participate. we need china to lead on north korea. we've got this trade deal that basically excludes china, that was announced today. so, there's really three-power tension. what we need to do is try to find areas with russia and china where we can work together despite the massive differences. with russia it's iran. we can possibly work together. terrorism and nuclear proliferation. the rest of the yashissues, syr ukraine, we're both heading in different directions. >> you mentioned trade and part of what's hurting the russian economy right now are the sanctions that the united states and western europe were finally persuaded to put on russia because of their interventions in ukraine. are deals with china enough to shore up the russian economy are, which as you said, is flagging, at least in part of that? >> well, yes, it can be -- it can make a big difference. this natural gas deal between russia and china is for 30 years. it's for a lot of money. so, that will help russia, which is losing a lot of its markets with eastern europe, with europe, because there's wariness. and sanctions have really hurt the russian economy. what has hurt them the most is the drop in oil prices from 110 bucks it's about $75 a barrel mor. this means the russian budget is going down and the ruble has come down 25%. so russia is scampering. they're paying a price for their adventures. but what we need to do is find areas where we can work with the russians. iran is a big one, this nuclear deal. although i'm skeptical of it. syria, i don't think we'll narrow our differences there. but there are areas like terrorism, like nonproliferation. we want the russians to honor their commitment to reduce nuclear weapons and they're backing out of that. so, there's a lot of big power politics going on. >> and you have the sort of strangeness of vladimir putin. there was a moment going around social media where he kind of, i guess, tried to be friendly to the first lady of china. and it was sort of awkward. he's sort of an awkward character. what do you make of vladimir putin? he gets a lot of praise from people on the right in this country who thinks his strength is a virtue, but what do you make of him as a character, of a person? what does he want? >> well, i met him just very fleetingly in the clinton administration. you know, he's a power player. and he wants to restore russia's strength again, but he's gambling and it's hurting him now. he's paying a price because of the downturn in his economy. >> indeed. >> now, the good thing about russia and china is that they have a lot of cultural differences. and china doesn't like what russia has done in ukraine, supporting separatist movement because they've got a problem in hong kong. so, you know, this -- this new relationship, china and russia, it's not exactly going to work 100%. there are problems. so the three of us, the big powers, have big problems with each other. >> and you talked about syria. let's also talk about what's happening inside of israel. there is a lot of tension happening right now around the way that the mosque is being administered by the israelis, disputes once again over access to that place by both jewish and muslim worshippers. of course today also is an anniversary of the death -- tenth anniversary of the death of yasser arafat, where do we stand any closer to seeing light at the end between israel and palestinians? >> no, i think things are not good. i think israel is very worried, as i am o a potential deal with iran. i don't think the palestinian moderates are gaining a foothold. so, you know, there's a lot of tension, a lot of explosions in the middle east. i think what we need to do is stick with our friends, stick with israel, be supportive. but at the same time, if there's any opening, any access to religious sites, any human rights initiatives, family reunification initiatives, that's what we should concentrate on because the political rivalries and conflicts are just too strong right now. >> quoted mahmoud abbas saying they igniting detrimental war over that mosque, so it is not getting better. bill richardson, thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy. now three things to know on this tuesday. the ferry captain who abandoned his sinking ship has more than 300 people drowned off the coast of south korea was acquitted of murder but sentenced to 36 years in prison for negligence. the highly anticipated verdict came on the same day officials called off searches for the remaining nine victims. overloaded cargo, belated rescue efforts and safety issues were related to the ferry sinking. in hawaii the molten lava consumed its first home in pahoa. earlier, it burned down a small steel storage shed on the same property. lava has been flowing since late june. as some residents of florida's tampa bay area are told to evacuate after a massive sinkhole opened up and swallowed up a neighborhood car. the hole is about ten feet wide and about ten feet deep and there are reports of another hole that has opened up on the property next door. geologists said the sinkhole is not getting any wider but it is getting deeper as it settles. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you outlive your money? 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[ male announcer ] the wish we wish above all...is health. so we quit selling cigarettes in our cvs pharmacies. expanded minuteclinic, for walk-in medical care. and created programs that encourage people to take their medications regularly. introducing cvs health. a new purpose. a new promise... to help all those wishes come true. cvs health. because health is everything. it's time for we tweeple. ohio state senator, nina turner tweeted, all those who served and are serving now and their families, thank you. here in new york, the folks at 9/11 memorial tweeted out this image of yellow roses placed by the names of vets who died on 9/11. some of you are also talking about america's oldest living veteran, austin resident richard overton at the age of 108, still enjoys a good cigar and likes to spike his morning coffee with a little whisky. his secret to longevity, he says staying out of trouble. it's remembrance day across the pond. people on social media are buzzing about this beautiful display of poppies, a traditional emblem of the holiday outside the tower of london. it represents a british or colonial soldier that ended the conflict. the last of the 888,246 poppies was laid by 13-year-old cadet harry hayes this morning. meanwhile, vladimir putin may be giving the president side-eye at apec summit in beijing, but here's something to side-eye back home. these two posted these pictures to social media network v-contact in tying the knott in what may be russia's first same-sex marriage. one was born as male, the couple was able to take advantage of russia's definition of marriage. and now a follow-up to our story yesterday about the controversy surrounding the video for nicki minaj's new single "only." the rapper took to twitter this morning to respond to accusations from music fans and even the antidefamation league that the video used nazi imagery. she tweeted, the artist was influenced by a cartoon on cartoon network. noting the producer and the videographer are jewish and adding, i didn't come up with the concept but i'm very sorry and take full responsibility if it has offended anyone. i never condone naziism in my art. can join fellow reiders and tell us what's important to you. you, my friend are a master of diversification. who would have thought three cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? 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>> i don't feel like the country is fully cognizant because i think for a lot of people in the country, they hear the numbers. but numbers can always get very blurry. numbers aren't personal. numbers aren't things you can hold on to. the truth is while those numbers are very real, that it's less than 5% of our nation's population has any contact either direct or indirect with the past of the wars of afghanistan or iraq. i think the challenge for a lot of people is these wars are things that happening over there fought by those people but that direct connection the american people have to these wars feels a bit nonexistent. >> that's the point. you have fewer than 1% of this country really bearing the burden of having to fight our wars. and it's not spread throughout the country. you also have another acute problem. which is high unemployment among returning veterans, particularly of these two recent wars in afghanistan as well as in iraq. you were featured -- actually, you were on the cover of "redbook" magazine along with the first lady, michelle obama. she spoke at a career women's development forum in arlington yesterday. let's play a clip. >> the unemployment rate for women veterans from iraq and afghanistan was 11.2%. five points higher than men who served in the same conflicts. and more than double the rate for civilian women. and that's just wrong. >> and while we do emphasize and talk about issues like ptsd and some difficulties our vets come home with, they come back with unique skills that make them -- should make them really, really employable. why do you think we haven't been able to improve the unemployment picture for veterans, particularly women vets? >> i can only speak for myself, but in some cases, many of us don't know what we want to do when we transition from military to civilian status. so, for me, i got to do so many different things when i was in the military, and i loved them all. so when i put my resume together, i thought all of those skills would be attractive to an employer. what i found was it was just too all over the place and they really didn't know what i wanted to do. i talked to other female veterans who had that same issue. lack of focus, lack of preparation, family issues, they're a little heavier on the female than it is on a male service member, in many case, not all cases. so there's just a number of issues that make it a little different and a little more difficult for women. >> and, wes, same question to you. we do on paper have a lot of resources that are dedicated to helping returning veterans. there is that new g.i. bill that was passed. you do have things like got your six campaign to try to get more employment happening. what do you suppose is the disconnect with people who come back with great leadership skills and not able to fully employ or vets? >> i think one of the biggest challenges for the employment issue is lack of credentialing in terms of higher education. i think you're absolutely right. we passed an extraordinarily generous g.i. bill but wul of the challenges if you look at the larger universe of veterans, the number is hovering still in the single digits of veterans who start school who will actually complete their collegiate degree. so, you know, we can have all the programs in the world and we can ask all the businesses to hire veterans. the challenge is, unless we can do a better job of getting veterans through college and getting them these credentials we need, we're talking about entry-level jobs, jobs that are transient and jobs that are afemoral and we're never talking about long-term sustainable skill building and long-term sustainable employment. that's been one of the real challenges of turning someone from deployed personnel to someone who is gainfully employed. >> the veterans administration has been in the news, we've talked about some deficiencies. there are plans for the va, with a new secretary, to try to improve conditions for returning vets, new customer service bureau, structural overhaul of some of the department functions, working more closely with community partners. and i'll ask both of you. do you feel that the changes that you've heard about are enough to make the va actually work for veterans? >> i don't really know as far as the va goes, but if i could add something to what wes said, in addition to education and credentialing, i think networking is extremely important but there has to be a way for a veteran to connect with someone in a korment corporate empntity. that's where women's professional comes in. it helps us get paired up with a mentor to get our foot in the door of certain companies, or at least be better prepared to approach a company. so, that's something else that i think is helpful. that doesn't really have anything to do with veterans affairs but it is something that helped me. >> it's an important component. wes, final thoughts to you. do you feel enough has been done to reform va, and if you want to comment on what trish just said about employment. >> i say in terms of the va, i think, you know, a lot of good things and a lot of good measures have been done. truthfully, reforming the va and putting the va on a correct path, that's not a week's long operation nor a month's long operation. this is going to take years. what we've seen, the challenges, internal challenges in the va, they were not created in a matter of years. these are things that have been sitting there for decades upon decades and the reform will not happen overnight. >> i want to thank you both for your service. also, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> cheers. next, in a very special veterans day edition of our continuing series "generation to generation, two medal of honor recipients will talk about their service and their sacrifice to this country. you know how fast you were going? 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when was it? and what happened? >> i was in marjah, afghanistan, november 21 of 2010. it was my first combat deployment over there. >> kyle carpenter shouldn't be alive. >> he was severely wounded while in afghanistan. >> we were on top of a roof. an attack was started and grenades were thrown. one landed on top of the roof with us. i don't remember anything, if i went unconscious. >> colonel jack jacobs was almost killed in vietnam in 1968 under intense enemy fired, he rescued 14 men that day, earning a medal of honor. >> i had a head wound. just felt like i wanted to lie down. and after a while, i did lie down and i couldn't get up again. was it like that for you? >> well, i couldn't really hear or see anything just because my vision and my -- i got more and more tired and toward the end of it, after i had my final key thoughts, i had come to terms that i wasn't making it through this. yeah, it was just really tired. i wanted to kind of just go to sleep. >> go to sleep. >> yeah. >> i think you come to grips with the situation after a while. >> president of the united states in the name of the congress takes pleasure in presenting the medal of honor to lance corporal william kyle carpenter, united states marine corps. >> how did you discover thaw were going to get the award? who called you? >> the president of the united states, president obama. >> this is president obama. how are you doing? >> fine, sir. how are you? >> i'm awarding you the medal of honor for your courageous actions in afghanistan. >> i got a call about three weeks before the ceremony from some colonel who identified himself as being head of army awards branch. he said, congratulations, you're going to receive the medal of honor. >> con spir yous gallantry -- >> do you know who jimmy doolittle was. >> yes, sir. >> put his arm around me, took me to the corner of the room and he said, young man, he said, you're no longer jack jacobs. he said, you're jack jacobs, medal of honor recipient, and he better behave accordingly. do you understand what i'm saying? >> it definitely weighs on me, knowing the responsibility that i'm going to have. and i'm not, i guess, timid or scared in any way. i am excited for the opportunity to represent the military and this nation. but it's definitely, i guess, a double-edged sword. >> almost everything, even if it's good, we hang together trying to help each other out because we do know we don't wear the award for ourselves. we wear it for all those people who can't. who served and sacrificed. who performed valiantly and nobody saw them or somebody saw them, but they died themselves. you have a real heavy burden not just because you're a medal of honor recipient, but because there's so few. and you're relatively young. so the burden is going to fall on you and the other guys of your age to carry on talking about service and sacrifice and how we represent all those kids who didn't come home. >> yes, sir. >> two genuine heroes. and sometimes i struggle to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. this is called non-24, a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70 percent of people who are totally blind. talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 844-824-2424. or visit your24info.com. don't let non-24 get in the way of your pursuit of happiness. americans drink 48 billion that's enough plastic bottles to stretch around the earth 230 times. each brita filter can replace 300 of those. clean. clear. brita water. nothing is better. ameriprise asked people a simple question: in retirement, will you have enough money to live life on your terms? i sure hope so. with healthcare costs, who knows. umm... everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive confident retirement approach. now you and your ameripise advisor.... can get the real answers you need. start building your confident retirement today. we're back now with break news out of ferguson, missouri, today. moments from now missouri governor jay nixon will hold a news conference to outline law enforcement plans pending the darren wilson grand jury announcement. i'll be watching tonight to find out what you have to say about it, but give us a preview. a lot of people expect a nonindictment and a lot of people are worried about a reaction. >> there's a lot that's strange about this. let's take a step back and think about the calling of the press conference itself. grand jury process is a secret process, right, and part of our judicial process. this has been very strange, not the way grand jury processes usually go. it's been more drawn out. the prosecutor hasn't actually decided what charges he's trying to be. he sort of let the jury -- and what has been bizarre over the last three or four weeks is everyone knows what's going on. everyone is watching this happen basically the assumption from everyone i taublg to is there will be no indictment. and here you have the governor of the state coming out to call a press conference before the process is played out in advance of that process playing out to be like, don't worry, we have this under control. when the thing that happens that i can't say is happening, happens. >> what's so strange, and i think what's sort of disconcerting when you watch everything from the way this has been policed in real time to this kind of anticipatory pre-policing is this seeming tone deafness of it all. there's an assumption that the people of ferguson are going to be just exorbitantly violent when all they're calling for is justice. >> some of seems to be superficial. talking about improving the police/community relationship or legal issues around this. treat people with maturity and respect and not treat them like props that you sort of p.r. your way through it. try to get real engagement in the community, get real roots in the community, which obviously are sorely lacking. seems some of this is p.r. stunts trying to cover for the lack of fundamental change. >> but p.r. that's working. >> this is a fascinating question here. one of the things you saw in that -- back when the protests were happening, there was a kind of co--escalation that would happen. often instigated by police or a heavy presence that then allowed police to instigate if a few bad actors got out of hand and that dynamic set in very quickly. the question you have to be asking yourself in you're jay nixon, ron johnson, whoever is overseeing this is, how do you talk to your constituents who are worried about arrests and violence, and that's a perfectly reasonable worry for constituents to have. they want to be safe and secure. without doing things that are essentially provocative, doing things that are saying, we expect the worse from you. we're going to come out in force because what i saw on the ground in ferguson day in and day out is when that was the police's anticipatory response, they got what they expected in some ways, right? >> eugene, there is a -- to chris's point, you have business owners in the area who want protection, who want to see some sort of deployment of force to protect their businesses in anticipation of whatever's going to happen. but what would you advise a police department in this position to do, st. louis and missouri state police, to strike that balance to be present and not provocative? >> again, that's the issue. we're back to substantive issues, which are difficult to do in this compressed period of time. the legitimacy of this process, that's what's hanging in the balance. for people to look at the police, even if they don't agree with the outcome, to understand how the outcome is arrived at, the process that went into it, and obviously trying to rebuild rapport with the police that is so badly damaged. they do have to plan for the worst, but they shouldn't create the worse situation. as chris said, it appears they in some case seem to be fostering problems rather than responding to them or ame ameliorating them. >> talking to people in ferguson, they would feel better -- >> from day one, the activists down there, folks i've talked to, and these aren't just random people on the street, although they have legitimate opinions, too, but it's also elected representatives, people imbedded in the political structure down there have said, there is no way -- who knows, we could be wrong, maybe everyone gets surprised bob mccullough will indict. so people have been feeling from day one, the fix is in, we know it's happening and there's something almost condescending and insulting about everyone knowing the obvious truth but not saying it as if this process is playing out in some sort of independent fashion when everyone, everyone knows what is coming down the pike. >> eugene, you have the st. louis police purchasing $100,000 worth of riot gear. that doesn't sound like a police department that is, as you were saying, trying to sort of manage a new relationship. it seems like they are simply assuming the worst and saying, we're going to be ready for you to go crazy. >> everybody agrees this police department is broken badly. regard little of the outcome of this incident, there should be a severe urgency about doing real fundamental reform. not just dressed up pending the outcome of this particular case, policing in ferguson needs intensive care and we need to get about the business in that town and doing it as soon as we possibly can. this should not objectify indicate those realities. there is divisions that some of the police and civic leadership didn't even see. there were two fergusons and the power structure didn't even see it. >> i remember governor nixon now has to deal with it. he had the opportunity to remove the prosecutor way back then and -- >> he dared him to do it. >> he basically begged him to do it. >> thank you very much. both of you. remember to watch "all in with chris hayes" weak nights at 8 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that wraps things up with "the reid report." then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to like, pull it a little further got me to 70 years old i'm going to have to rethink this thing it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪ a woman who loves to share her passions. grandma! mary has atrial fibrillation, an irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts her at a greater risk of stroke. rome? 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