>> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, in the latest perplexing move by hissoun orthodox campaign, donald trump is about to take the stage tonight in jackson, mississippi, where mitt romney won by 12 points in 2012. following a fund-raiser in the city with the second highest percentage of african americans in the country. and trump has right-wing british politician nigel farage, the leading politician for britain to leave the european union. he's not endorsing, but he and trump both seem to recognize what their politics have in common. while promoting the leave campaign, he exploited voters fears about immigration, which is echoed in trump's first tv ad which debuted last week. faraj writes his own column for breitbart news. he gafe them a massive thanks after his side won the brexit vote in june. trump later applauded the vote to leave the eu and took credit for predicting the outcome. a few days ago, he tweeted, they will soon be calling me mr. brexit. trump is campaigning with britain's top xenophobe to counter the view by many that he is racist. trump is planning trips to churches, charter schools and small businesses in black and latino communities, including a possible visit to detroit where ben carson would guide him on a tour where he grew up. tomorrow he'll be have the african leadership initiative, which trains young people to work on campaigns. earlier today, trump made a pitch to hispanic voters in florida, an tu battlround state. but he still hasn't quite mastered how to address people of color. >> over the last three weeks, the polls with african american folks, and spanish-speaking folks, the hispanics, the latinos, have gone way up. >> for the record, that's not accurate. trump's numbers with hispanics are basically down. trump has added a targeted pitch to his stump speech, but he continueds to talk about voter fraud in racially coded language. >> you've got to get everybody out to watch and to go out and vote. and when i say "watch," you know what i'm talking about, right? you know what i'm talking about. you gotta go out and you gotta watch. >> as "the new york times" writes, trump's description of black america is deeply offensive to many black americans. >> poverty, rejection, horrible education, no housing, no homes, no ownership. crime at levels that nobody's seeing, you can go to war zones in countries that we're fighting and it's safer than living in some of our inner cities. >> i'll be able to make sure when you walk down the street in your inner city or wherever you are, you're not going to be shot, your child isn't going to be shot. >> joined now by robert costa, "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. robert, i gotta say, donald trump in mississippi, in jackson, starting a new push for african american voters with nigel farage seems to sum up all the strange contradictions in this moment in this campaign. >> chris, the appearance of farrage especially is telling and it's telling about the influence of steve bannon, the former head of breitbart. i hear bannon and trump are speaking multiple times a day. in the same way that trump latched onto this populist, nationalist promoted by others on the hardline right a year ago, now bannon is encouraging him to latch on to what he sees as a nationalist movement globally. so trump is trying to be this global, populist figure. >> yet at the same time, you got nigel farage and he stands for a certain version of keeping britain pure, folks can understand what that means or interpret it how they want. and you've got him down in mississippi and trump's adviser saying they want to get out there and have him talking to voters of color and getting them back in the fold because his margins there are horrendous. >> there's a lot happening in his inner circle. kellyanne conway, trying to get trump to speak about regret and reaching out to different kinds of groups who trump is struggling with in polls. bannon trying to bring in farrage and think about trump in pure populist terms globally and here in the united states. and it all comes as trump is looking at this final, less than 80-day stretch of the election, where he has to bounce back. he doesn't want to lose his core. but as he's bringing nigel farage to mississippi, he's tweaking about how he speaks on immigration. >> yes, and he's starting to sound, in a prerecorded town hall, sounding jeb bushian n talking about paying back taxes, if they've been here 20 years and they've been good citizens, do you want to kick them out? that was jeb's position in the primary for which trump destroyed him. >> it's a sign how much politics are drink by a nationalistic impulse. this is someone who doesn't come out of the movement right, so even when it comes to a core issue like immigration, he's navigating on non-traditional terms and he's not staying as close to the right position as a jeff sessions or ann coulter. even ann coulter herself is saying, what is trump doing? this sounds like consultant speak. but this is who trump is, someone who walked into a movement, rather than being someone who came out of its hot core. >> so you can kellyanne conway talking about suburban voters, bannon wants him to be the nigel farage of the u.s. what exactly is this campaign's message at this point? i thought i knew it when i went to the convention and i heard that speech, which was basically really doubling down on this populist approach. it's unclear to me now what it is. >> when you talk to trump's associates in the campaign now and from previous years, he has a deep belief, not guided by polling, that african american voters, latino voters, if they can connect with his wealth and success, can identify with him in the closing lap of the campaign. of course polls show he's deeply unpopular, and this goes back, especially to his time in 2011, 2012, as the leader of the birther crusade. that hurt his numbers in a significant way with those voters. but trump himself believes he can win them back. >> yeah, it's a tough bell to unring, robert. thank you very much. >> thank you. joining me now, author of the gilded rage, and michael eric dyson, professor the georgetown university and author of the black presidency. i thought "the times" article did a good job laying out his speeches, how they're sounding to people living in black america? >> yeah, it amplifies the worst bigotries one might imagine and puts a harsh spotlight on the inability of this presidential candidate to understand the fundamental truths of black life, to respect its radical diversity, black people are different. although, i must say the tragic thing here is that people are wanting a presidential candidate to address poverty, to address disproportionate concentration of crime, to talk about the lack of safety that african american people face. the only problem is, donald trump offers nothing to relieve those particular problems. and everything to reinforce them. his critical celebration of a police state, his refusal to acknowledge the criminal justice system has been unfair to african american people, and lumping all black people into a monolithic stew, without understanding the differences and the conflicts and the internal machinations that constitute who we are as a community. so it's not only the blind leading the blind. it's those who are incapable of hearing the truths of black america, that mega phone has been put to that lack of ability to hear and what we hear is really chaos. >> alex, you spent months, essentially, if i understand the project, just spending time with trump supporters, right? >> that was the idea. >> how do you think these speeches, this language, what do you have to lose, how are they hearing that? how is that resonating with them? >> i don't think it's necessarily adding any trump voters. i don't think there were a lot of people on the fence or within a mile of a fence waiting for this speech. but whether he's losing people he already had, i would probably say it's not going to hurt him that much. i don't think these are people who are necessarily as consumed with race and immigration as some people -- >> really? you think so? >> i mean obviously you can't stereotype. and there are too many people. i don't want to replace one stereotype with another. if i had to come down on one side whether it's racial as a primary driver of trump support, i'd have to come down on the economic side. >> interesting. there's this question whether how much of this is performance for suburban white voters, particularly white women, in places like the georgia suburbs or in northern virginia, or in the areas that are the boston suburbs, new hampshire, where he's getting destroyed, and how much this is about essentially trying to set this -- i think jameel smith said this yesterday, that voting for trump in and of itself is not a racist act, because people do not want to commit that. >> right. and it relates to the point that was just made in regard to, it's not a conscious choice of many white brothers and sisters, if you polled them and asked them, they would deny it. but isn't that the lure of whiteness? it has been the default position of american identity. so that whiteness and nation are seemed to be linked, and as a result of that, you don't have to talk about whiteness. all have you to do is talk about making america great again. black people hear those code words and they understand what they mean. to your point, within african american culture, understanding just what's going on here, understanding the play that donald trump is making now, and let's be real. many african american people see this as kellyanne conway comes in and says, you're leaving on the table a lot of potential black people who might resonate with you. the only problem, they can't resonate with a guy who doesn't understand, again, that doesn't mean he's contradicting the principles of white nationalism, he's reinforcing them without being held to account. and donald trump say massively gifted manipulator. and at the end of the day, there may be no there there, but what's there at the end of the day is the status quo, and that has not favored african american people. >> here's the question. we're watching him do this thing on immigration, where people call it a pivot. it looks like a 180. or it might be nothing, because there's no there there. we think of trump supporters and the trump industrial complex, which is like the world of trump twitter, like ann coulter. those aren't necessarily the same worlds. so there's a question about that and then from the folks you talk to. what is your sense this border invasion stuff is for them? >> when i was on the border, that's where i saw the most, sort of self-awareness and critical thought with regard to trump's more extreme immigration statements. people there just intuitively understand that the wall is an insane idea and completely unworkable. >> the congressman from texas said on my show on the air, yes, it's ridiculous and he supports trump. >> i talk to dozens of hard core trump supporters on the border, and they say, soon as he gets into office, he'll surround himself with people who will tell him, we just need boots on the ground. >> so it's a rallying cry. that makes me think he can walk away from some of this stuff. >> as long as they believe he's still committed to the idea of a security border, the wall itself is a metta for. thank you both. still to come, no longer able to stake success on polling, the trump campaign's latest tactic, undercover voters. but first, donald trump still refuses to release its tax returns, so lawmakers are taking drastic measures. senator chris murphy joins me to talk about it right after this. >> here's what i think you'd find if donald trump's tax returns come out. because in at least a couple instances in the '80s and '90s they did get produced and it showed that he paid no taxes, none. and he's bragged about using every trick he can to pay no taxes. >> the issue of donald trump's tax returns remains, because he's still refusing to release them. he's claimed he can't release them while being audited, an excuse repeated again this morning by his son. >> there is no tax attorney in the world who will tell you to release your tax returns while you're under a standard routine audit. it would never happen. anybody who thinks that is in la la land. it would be foolish to do. and i'm the biggest proponent of not doing it, because he's under a standard audit, you just don't do that during that time. >> according to the irs, an audit is no impediment to releasing the taxes. >> there is zero risk that releasing the first two pages of his tax return, plus the schedule a, that shows charitable contributions. that will have no impact whatsoever. and it tells the american people what they have a right to know. he's put these issued in the public. >> last time trump's tax returns became public was in 1981. it showed that trump had for two years in the late 1970s taken advantage of a code popular with developers that allowed him to report negative income. there's been legislation introduced that will require presidential candidates to release their tax returns. our next guest supports that legislation. joining me now, senator chris murphy of connecticut. why make this statutory under law? >> i think had we thought 20 years ago that this president -- precedent would be broken, we would have done it then. but the risk to the american public of this information not being made public, i think, is incredible. it's grave. and it's because, i think, frankly, this might go much deeper than just a question of whether it would be embarrassing or politically damaging for donald trump for the american public to find out that for a series of years, he paid no taxes. my worry is that there's something much more insidious in those tax returns. what we know, his siblings have said that donald trump has been deeply invested in russia and likely russians have been deeply invested in him. as you sort through why he's taken these curious positions on matters of foreign policy, like denying that russia invaded ukraine, the answer may come in his tax returns, there may be substantial connections between russian oligarchs and donald trump, and that's what is most important for the american public to know. that's why this legislation is important. because nobody's going to be able to get a full picture of why he's running for president unless they can see his tax returns. >> there has been speculation about financial ties to russia. there's a quote from a child about the investment there. they have responded in non-denial ways about their specific posture. it brings me to the story he's telling his audience, there's nigel farage there. still trying to get my head around that. but the story about clinton foundation being pay to play, take a listen. >> hillary clinton ran the state department like a failed leader in a third world country. that's what it's run, like a third world country. she sold favors and access in exchange for cash. >> what do you say to that? >> well, that's made up. it's a complete lie. in fact, all of the e-mails that came out today, that speak to the relationship and some of the conversations between the clinton campaign and the foundation, there's nothing in them that suggests there was ever any kind of conduct like that, that trump alleges. but just for one second, let's think about what he's alleges. he's alleging that hillary clinton conducted herself in a manner such that people would give donations to try to cure worldwide aids and malaria, to combat child obesity. there's nothing to suggest she did that. but that stands in direct contrast with donald trump, that he may be running for president in order to enrich himself and his family personally. so it's pretty rich in hypocrisy that donald trump is making these allegations not anchored in fact, when he may be running for president to make himself personally richer. >> we should note the campaign disclosure, that his campaign bought $55,000 worth of his books. i want to ask you about nigel farage. basically this brexit happened and everyone associated with it has basically died politically in britain. nigel farage is at a rally in jackson, mississippi, being hailed. what do you make of that, this idea that there's this transnational, quote, nationalist movement and what the sub text of that is? >> well, it exists. it's real. and whether you like it or not, part of the undercurrent of the campaign for england to leave the eu was a fear of people who look different from them, living amongst them. and of course that is what is fueling donald trump's rise. it's a strange time to double down on that play, because we know that people who are making their decision in the middle of the electorate are incredibly uncomfortable with the racism of donald trump and his campaign. it probably just shows that his campaign has no idea what they're doing. i mean, we try to read some specific and bold new strategy into nigel farage standing on stage. it's alienating swing voters who don't want to hear that rhetoric and it suggests this campaign is probably as directionless as ever. >> all right. i don't know why i find it bizarre and surreal that nigel farage is speaking in the midst of a presidential campaign. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. heather mcgee's powerful response when a white man asked her how to overcome his prejudices. she'll be here to talk about it coming up. >> we were just talking about the clinton foundation and senator chris murphy and we talked about it last night. and part of the problem of accusations against hillary clinton for her treatment of the donors of the clinton foundation is that there so many donors in prominent positions. if you throw a dart at a news story, you're likely to hit one. here's one example, mylan pharmaceuticals, a donor, they worked with clinton foundation in 2009 to lower the cost of antiretroviral drugs needed to help patients with hiv in developing countries. yet today in a statement, candidate clinton blasted that same company for what she called an outrageous price increase of one of its vital products, the epipen, calling it the latest troubling example of a company taking advantage of its consumers. it's quite literally life-saving for users. the drug doesn't last. people need to purchase epipens sold in a two-pack, regularly. that can add up. now epipen's manufacturer is facing growing outrage following several steep price increases on his life-saving products. >> in 2010, the price was $150. then 300, 400, 500, and now with a near monopoly, $608. the ceo's compensation has grew nearly 700% over the time. nevertheless, members of congress are calling on mylan to explain itself, which could get awkward for ceo heather bresh, given she's the daughter of joe manchin of west virginia. but perhaps all is not lost for the drug company. mylan got a rigorous defense this week. >> martin 64ely is under indictment for securities fraud. today he defended mylan. >> milean's a good guy, they have one product where they were finally starting to make a little bit of money and everyone's going crazy over it. >> i'm alex trebek. if you're age 50 to 85, i have an important message about security. write down the number on your screen, so you can call when i finish. the lock i want to talk to you about isn't the one on your door. this is a lock for your life insurance, a rate lock, that guarantees your rate can never go up at any time, for any reason. but be careful. many policies you see do not have one, but you can get a lifetime rate lock through the colonial penn program. call this number to learn more. this plan was designed with a rate lock for people on a fixed income who want affordable life insurance that's simple to get. coverage options for just $9.95 a 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trump and his aides have been pointing to the size of trump's rallies to argue against the polls. trump saying, i'm going good, i have the biggest crowds, nobody's ever had crowds like this. and there's the argument that voters simply aren't telling pollsters the truth. >> this is pretty up for grabs. >> i would bet it would go towards trump. i think there's a silent trump thing going on right now, people that might not want to admit it. >> that was also stated by kellyanne conway in an interview with the uk's channel 4. >> donald trump performs consistently better in online polling where a human being is not talking to another human being. >> why is that? >> because it's become socially desirable, especially if you're a college educated person, to say that you're against donald trump. the hidden trump vote in this country is a significant proposition. >> have you been able to put a number on that? >> yes. >> what? >> i can't discuss it. it's a project we're doing internally, i call it the undercover trump voter, but it's real. >> the interview was taped many weeks ago and she knows they're behind. but that doesn't make her argument less problematic or at least interesting. claiming that voters have been lying to voters because of the social stigma attached to admitting the truth. economist david roth child wrunched the numbers and found there's no evidence of a bradley effect in trump general election polls. and then there's the more fundamental problem for the trump campaign, which is it's at odds with himself. while simultaneously trying to make the case to people of color that trump is on their side. joining me now, liam donovan, whose twitter feed has been essential reading for me. >> thanks for having me. >> look, you can't have it both ways, essentially, right? you cannot go after goosing the white vote, white non-college, as demographers call them, and the appeal you need to get them does what that makes it so hard to get other people. >> right. i think it's the bell that can't be unrung. you're using this wedge and pushing on it and there's an inherent tension there. they appreciate that and that's demonstrated by what they've tried to throw back in, in the later -- the latest attacks they've taken, to appeal to nontraditional gop audiences and it's meant to appeal to the disturbs they've lost. so i think their behavior is indicative of the fact that they realize what they've done and they're trying to undo the damage, ask that's just trying to get back to par. >> it's like a runner who has drifted too far off first base and now the throw is coming and they're trying to get back to the base. and i don't mean the base in the political sense. they're trying to get back to the spreads and numbers they need just among white college educated women, particularly in those suburbs, to be at romney levels. >> that's exactly right. i think for all the heat that jeb bush took about the paradox of, you have to be willing to take risks in the primary that might imperil you in the general, you've seen the exact opposite. i think the things that pay off in a republican primary, that we saw, are things that, you know, it's not that voters weren't paying attention there. it's that they were and you're seeing reflected in trump's numbers. it doesn't appeal beyond a sub set of a sub set of the electorate. >> there's also -- what's so weird to me, i expected -- some of the things you're seeing now, i expected at the convention. i remember when i got the early copy of that speech he gave at the rnc, i thought to myself, this is the full breitbart. they're really going with this thing, they got this huge audience, a chance to reintroduce him and they're going with this. i mean, you gotta imagine what has convinced them to try to tackle it is just the polling, right? >> right. and i think that's the fascinating thing, to watch the two-step that you're seeing, kellyanne conway on one side of his shoulder and steve bannon on the other. and it almost depends what side of bed he wakes up on, or who he talked to last because there's no consistency, no coherence to it. which is probably too much to ask, because we haven't observed that throughout the campaign. but it's hit or miss every other day, he's got a new message, he's softening, he's not softening. he's mr. brexit, hanging out with mr. brexit in jackson, mississippi. this isn't stuff that plays in swing counties in the electoral battlegrounds. >> to me, what's happening with immigration, someone coming in, and be like, i'm a disrupter, and then sort of slowly learning, oh, right, there was a reason. it's like campaign's 101. like, oh, yeah, that's true. i guess you gotta court those voters that everyone's been courting in every election going back for 20 years. >> in fairness, he's coming full circle. these were the things, he was saying the hard-working ones can stay. he sold a fantasy and it was a ror shack test. he was never explicit or prescriptive with the policy. so he could have it both ways. it's more about feelings than it is about actual policy. >> but ultimately you have to have some kind of policy. you're going to get nailed down in some direction. >> but i think his tendency has been, he can't share that with you, because he's the ultimate strategist, playing 3d chess. >> thank you for your time. coming up, a stunning moment live on cnn. a caller admits to his own prejudice and asks how to the answer ahead. plus, mike pence at the barber shop, then had to explain who he was at the sandwich shop. don't go anywhere. thing 1 tonight, mike pence so why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use, is the only daily tablet approved to treat erectile dysfunction so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. plus cialis treats the frustrating urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use. many men aren't aware their health insurance may cover cialis. contact your health plan for the latest information. thing 1 tonight, mike pence meets america. last night we brought you mike pence gets a hair cut. on the campaign trail in norristown, pennsylvania, he spent 27 minutes in the barber chair, great opportunity to meet a local and pick up another swing state vote, but after 27 minutes, there was just one problem. >> that's great. >> your name was? >> mike pence. >> mike pence? >> yes, sir. i'm the governor of the state of indiana. >> okay. >> i'm running for vice president of the united states. >> whoa, man. vice president? >> yes, sir. >> oh, boy. >> yes, sir. i'm running with donald trump. i'm his running mate. >> okay, all right. >> just tapped me a month ago. >> it was a little awkward, but it must have been a fluke. today's episode, mike pence gets a sandwich. after ordering lunch in wilmington, north carolina, pence made the rounds with some local patrons. hello. >> how are you? >> mike pence. >> nice to meet you. i'm sandy loveman. nice to meet you. >> this is? >> my son cody. >> good to meet you, man. >> little bit out of town, yeah, about five hours. also mike pence appreciate cody. can you get how this one ends? that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. >> so mike pence stopped into winnie's for a sandwich today. worked the room. after approaching this family, they pause said their meal to engage in polite conversation. and watch what happened as they try to wrap up the conversation to go back to their lunch. >> we're from. [ inaudible ] >> just a little bit out of town? >> about five hours. yup, nice to meet you. >> i'm donald trump's running mate. >> fairly amazing thing happened >> fairly amazing thing happened on tv over the weekend on c-span of all places. heather mcgee, president of the progressive public policy organization, a frequent guest on this show, was on washington journal to talk about public policy among other things. she was not there to give life advice to viewers, but watch what happened when one gentleman called in with a question. >> i was hoping that you could help me change my mind about some things. i'm a white male and i am prejudice, and the reason it is, is something i wasn't taught, but kinda something i learned. when i opened up the papers, i get very discouraged at what young black males are doing to each other and the crime rate. and i understand that they live in an environment with a lot of drugs, and you have to get money for drugs. and it's a deep issue that goes beyond that. but when i have these different fears and i don't want my fears to come true, you know, so i try to avoid that. and i come off as being prejudice. but i just have fears. i don't like to be forced to like people. i like to be led to like people through example. what can i do to change, you know, to be a better american? >> heather mcgee? >> thank you so much for being honest, and for opening up this conversation, because it's simply one of the most important ones we have to have in this country. and so, asking the question you asked, how do i get over my fears and my prejudices, is the question that all of us, and i will say people of all races and ethnicities and backgrounds, holds these prejudices. most of them are unconscious. you say to yourself, i'm not prejudice, but we all have them. so your ability to just say, this is what i have, i have these fears and prejudices and i want to get over them, is one of the most powerful things that we can do right now at this moment in our history. so thank you. >> that's the sort of thing you don't see on tv every day or any day. when we return, we'll talk about it with heather mcgee. stay with us. >> so what can you do? get to know black families who are not all -- and not even any majority are involved in crime and gangs. turn off the news at night, because we know from -- sorry, gretta. >> we're not delivering the news, so it's fine. >> because we know that actually "nightly news" and many media markets that have been studied actually overrepresents african american crimes and under-represents crimes that happen by white people. join a church, if you are a religious person that is a black church, or is a church that is interracial. start to read about the history of the african american community in this country. foster conversation in your family and in your neighborhood, where you're asking exactly those kinds of questions. this fear of communities that we do not live near, we are still a very, very segregated country. millions of white americans live in places where they rarely see anyone of a different race. this fear and set of ideas that we only get from the worst possible news, it's tearing us apart. and we know that in order to be the -- our name means the people of the nation, in order to be a dimos that is unite the across lines of class, gender, age, we have to foster relationships, we have to get to know who one another actually is. >> joining me now, heather mcghee, president of demos. as the kids say, it's gone viral. why do you think it's getting sharedo much? >> when i stepped off the set at c-span, of course there were more callers. it was a call-in show. so i knew something special had happened. i myself was moved by his question, but i had no idea actually that it could possibly resonate this much. and i think there are a few reasons. one, i think most -- you know, first and foremost, it was gary from north carolina, his bravery in saying that, right? it is, now we are at a moment where people are sort of choosing sides on race, and it seems like, you know, the sort of fox news version of the racial discourse in this country is that african americans think there is racism and there are a million reasons why there aren't. and so it does feel like there's a vested interest in denying the existence of racism. and of course that's so far from the truth. not only in our public policies and our history, in our economy, in our politics, so very obviously, but also in our minds and our hearts. and what i really wanted to get across was -- and again, this all happened very, very quickly, you know, i heard the call-in and something sort of came out in me. i wanted him to say, i wanted him to hear from me, from a black woman who works in politics, thank you for being brave enough to do what frankly many people of color work so hard to do, which is just get us to admit that racism exists, start the conversation. >> one of the things i thought was so fascinating was his apt self-awareness of the cause of this, which is reading the newspaper, i mean, the media that he was consuming was telling him, you know -- >> yeah. >> and breitbart, which, whose campaign manager -- or one of the campaign heads is a person who basically is now running the trump campaign, there's a tag on breitbart called black crime. you can go sort your breitbart consumption by #black crime, and that's not limited to them. >> no, it's not. there's a very clear narrative that, you know, it's in the alt-right, it's breitbart, but it's also fox, and of course it's also donald trump, which is justifying racial inequality. and the thing that's so important for us to remember, that's not new. you know, i often try to put myself in the shoes of a white person in the era of segregation, and if i just sort of supported the way that life was ordered and the sort of my place in the world, would i have been just a totally different cartoonish evil type of person? obviously not. these are many white americans' grandparents and great grandparents. but in fact, you had to have been sort of surrounded by images, stories, myths, narratives that were excuses for why it was -- >> they were justifications. >> they were justifications, and that's where we are today. >> people did not go into lynch mobs because the person -- they didn't tell themselves they're a lynch mob because the person was black. they told themselves they were a lynch mob because the person had committed a horrible crime. that's what they were telling themselves. people tell themselves all sorts of stories. >> but right now, we're at this moment, i think, when there's an incredible opportunity -- >> there is. >> -- for americans to sort of reengage in this question of what it means to be american, who belongs, who deserves to be sort of inside the circle of human concern. >> and what we look like as a dimos, as a people. i want to you respond to this. donald trump is in jackson, mississippi, second highest majority black sort of population of black voters. you see the crowd there in jackson, mississippi, as they stream out. here's something he said about hillary clinton and her racial politics. take a listen. >> hillary clinton is a biggot who sees people of color only as votes, not as human beings worthy of a better future. >> yeah, um, so, to be fair, i think most politicians see people as votes. >> that's right. >> but, you know, donald trump is at zero to 1% with the african american community for a reason. and whether it's the way that he sort of burst onto the scene in new york as a slum lord who had to settle, you know, massive case of anti-black discrimination, to his leading and mainstreaming of birther movement. there's not much he can do to sort of unremind us of how he really feels about the black community. >> but what i love about that moment and i have no idea who that guy is voting for or supporting, is that there's donald trump, and he's sort of rung the bell he's going to ring. but there's millions of fellow citizens who may be supports him or not, and they can unring the bell. they can be different people in their racial attitudes than they were yesterday. >> absolutely. >> thank you. that is "all in" for the evening. >> thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour. it is special occasion night here tonight on the rachel maddow show. we are going to start right off at the top of the show, not with me talking for 17 straight minutes, but rather with the interview. i have had the opportunity on this show this year to interview democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton a handful of times. i've not yet had the pleasure of interviewing republican presidential candidate donald trump. i live in hope that that interview will happen here and sometime soon, but in the meantime, i'm very excited to say that i've got what i think of as the next best thing. we are joined tonight for the interview by donald trump's campaign manager, kellyanne conway. thanks so much for being here. >> my pleasure. thank you for having me. >> i have to ask you, if it's a hard decision to do a show like this with liberal comy pinko like me. or do you guys -- >> i've never described you that way. no, it's a pleasure. i wanted to pass along a hello from donald trump. i told him i was coming on your show and he said it was a terrific idea. and i said i hope i'm your warm-up ba a
ross will be on the beach for beach volleyball semifinals. we will see you tomorrow. if it's tuesday, the drip, drip, drip of e-mail news continues, as republicans take aim at clinton's honesty. tonight, a matterle of trust. why hillary clinton fairs even worse than donald trump on trustworthiness. >> i'm not taking anybody anywhere for granted. >> plus, does donald trump really want to win the white house? a lot of people aren't so sure. >> everyone talks about, how, are you going to pivot -- i don't want to pivot. >> and voter i.d. a supreme court appeal that democrats say could leave some voters out in the cold. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. and good evening, i'm steve kornacki. welcome to "mpt daily." we have brand news numbers, big numbers to tell you about in our nbc news/survey monkey poll. we'll have them all for you in just a moment. but we are going to begin with the moment republicans have been desperately hoping for. is this their chance to turn the page on what has been a disastrous stretch for donald trump, as hillary clinton has been surging in the polls? as trump and the gop look to clou their way back into this fight, house republicans are laying out their case for a federal perjury investigation into clinton, and now the fbi is opening up its clinton files, but not without a fight from the clinton campaign. after being pressed by house republicans, the fbi is sending members of congress high little sensitive non-public information about the interview they conducted with clinton during their investigation into her private e-mail server. you'll recall that the fbi eventually cleared clinton of legal wrongdoing, but delivered a scathing rebuke of how she handled classified information in the first place. now, all of this comes just 24 hours after house republicans laid out their case in a letter to the u.s. attorney's office in washington for a perjury investigation into clinton. in the letter, they note discrepancies between clinton's sworn statements and fbi director james comey's findgs. here are some of the contradictions noted. >> nothing was marked classified at the time i sent or received it. >> was that true? >> that's not true. there were a small number of portion markings on, i think, three of the documents. >> i provided the department with all of my work-related e-mails. >> secretary clinton said all work-related e-mails were returned to the state department. was that true? >> no, we found work-related e-mails, thousands, that were not returned. >> did someone physically look at the 62,000 e-mails or did you use search terms, i want to know the specifics. >> they did all of that. they went through every single e-mail. >> did her lawyers read the e-mail content individually? >> no. >> now, all of this, of course, gets to the much bigger political question of trust. trust, which has been the clinton campaign's biggest vulnerability, even as hillary clinton has surged in the polls of late. raises the question, could we be in for a repeat of 1968, when a candidate nicknamed tricky dick won big despite trust concerns? republicans have to hope not, because trust issues may be their best shot to get back in the game. and with that in mind, let's take a deep dive into our nbc news poll. we had a punch of new numbers for you, hot off the presses. here is the newest one. new here at 5:00 on the east coast, donald trump and hillary clinton head to head among military households. that's the new group we're looking at here. you see the advantage at ten points. again, this is slipping. we've talked about this in looking at so many different groups this election. nald trump not performing as well as republicans traditionally perform. not doing as well with the key groups for republicans. this is one of them. this is a disappointing number for donald trump. but we said, we wanted to look at this question of trustworthiness, of honesty in the presidential campaign in light of the republican push on hillary clinton and the e-mails, we'll take a look, first of all, where does the race stand in the nbc news/survey monkey national poll, a nine-point lead for hillary clinton. that's consistent with most polls we've seen for the last couple weeks since the convention. a solid lead there for hillary clinton. so, it raises the question, where are the vulnerabilities, and more specifically, the front-runner? start on trump. we asked a series of questions here about character qualities people say they like to see in presidents in political leaders, the question was asked, do you think donald trump is honest and trust wore think, do you think he has the temperament to serve? do you think he cares about people like you? there's no getting around it. these are dreadful numbers for a presidential candidate. the only thing that seemed to get a lot of support here, none of the above. the best he did was on shares your values. just over 1 in 5 voters saying he shares those values. that explains a lot of why donald trump is struggling so much in the polls right now. but check this out. look at hillary clinton. run through these same questions on hillary clinton. the numbers are a little better, but they are not much better, and look at this one. honesty, trustworthinestrustwor. 11% of voters. in this nbc news/survey monkey poll. just is 1% s1% say, yes, that i character quality that i would say describes hillary clinton. she does have an advantage over donald trump on temperament to serve. trump's numbers were in the teens there. hillary clinton over 40%. that might account for her broader lead in the polls. but again, that honesty, trustworthy question, that is what republicans are pursuing in this e-mail thing. 11%. and if you are saying, that's just because every republican, neighbor every republican-leaning independent doesn't think she's honest and trustworthy, check this out. amon democrats, democrats, hillary clinton's own party, is she honest and trust wore think, the number doesn't move. it's 12%. it was 11% with all voters. 12% with democratic voters. so, that represents a serious problem and vulnerability for the clinton campaign. that's the context, that's the backdrop for this republican push on e-mails now. let's get to the action inside the clinton campaign, nbc's kristin welker is live in philadelphia with the clinton campaign, so, kristin, we look at those numbers, republicans see political opportunity, they've been trying to figure out how to capitalize on those numbers for hillary clinton, now, with the e-mails, with getting the memos, the interview memos from the fbi to congress, they see some opportunity. what is the clinton campaign saying about all of this? >> reporter: well, as you can imagine, they are pushing back quite forcefully on the fact that those notes from secretary clinton's interview with the fbi were released to lawmakers. let me read you a statement from brian fallon and discuss it on the other side, steve. it reads, quote, "this is an extraordinarily rare step that was sought solely for republicans for the purposes of further second-guessing the career professionals at the fbi. we believe that if these materials are going to be shared outside the justice department, they should be released widely so that the public can see them for themselves, rather than allow republicans to mischaracterize them through selective, partisan leaks." and that is really the crux of the clinton campaign argument. that, essentially now, these documents are open to potential leaks. so, they are saying, hey, release these documents to the public so everyone can see. important to point out, steve, these are not the transcripts, these are the notes from the secretary's interview with the fbi. and the fbi said, these documents are not to be shared in any form, if the fbi does not give permission for that to happen. but there's no doubt that this will keep the e-mail story in the headlines. secretary clinton trying to turn the page here in philadelphia, and she will do so again tomorrow in ohio, a big battleground state, steve. >> all right, kristen, following the clinton campaign in philadelphia. kristen, thank you for that. let's bring in tonight's panel. heather mcgee. charlie black, a veteran republican strategist who has worked with ronald reagan, bush 41, john mccain and mitt romney. and joining the panel, ari melber. so, ari, let's start with you. the republicans are looking for two things here. one, they want to get the memos from the interviews, but those are going to be, as kristen was just saying, they can't be made public, i understand the republicans have to look at these, any member of congress who wants to look at these has to look in a secure facile si, what could they do with this information? >> very little politically. you've reported and explained why it is sensitive, and what the restrictions are, so, this would be for oversight, for the substantive background information that could inform their approach to all of this. the fbi and doj consider this essentially a closed case. so, the short answer is, not much. >> what about the other front here, they are looking to the u.s. attorney to pursue some sort of perjury charge against hillary clinton for saying in front of congress, you have that testimony there, where she says, did not send or receive anything marked classified, james comey said there were several e-mails that contained some type of marking, not the full marking, but some type of marking. >> legally based on what is known, there is almost nothing to that. and the reason for that is, it's not enough to be caught in some sort of misstatement or error. the actual standard for a perjury investigation which would be rare in the context of testifying to congress, would be that you knowingly misled congress, that you, at the time, were lying. you would have to prove that hillary clinton said there were no classified material, where a later investigation found that there were three that had markings "c" on them, not just thatfact, but at the time, there's some smoking gun that knowingly misled them. it may be good political hay and certainly relevant to voters, for republicans to try to find ways to emphasize the fact that hillary clinton has said things in public that don't square ultimately with the fbi investigation, it is legally a bridge too far to suggest that that would ever lead to a perjury inquiry, i would also note that they already did all of this in asking the fbi, the exact same issue, what is new here is a new letter to a different part of the government, the doj, everyone remembers the whole reason comey wasch thing is because it's the fbi that does the review, not the persons they just e-mail at doj. >> charlie black, let me ask you about the politics of this. we put the pull numbers up there, those are terrible numbers for hillary clinton when it comes to honesty and trustworthiness. here is what a, maybe a clinton supporter might say, the bottom line, though, is, the clintons have been in the public spotlight for a generation now. the numbers, honesty, trustworthiness for hillary clinton and her husband have been pretty bad for a generation now. they haven't mattered to this point. why would they start mattering now? >> well, listen, in defense of bill clinton, he never had numbers this bad. honesty and trustworthiness of mrs. clinton is down to her extended family and her staff, and nobody else trusts her. but listen, as long as the coverage about hillary clinton is about e-mails, possible perjury, speculating if she violated the law by using the e-mail server, all of that is bad, it just reinforces her character problems. and this race has a long way to go. donald trump just needs to make himself the acceptable alternative, the representative of change versus the status quo. they don't like her. not enough of them like him, but he could get enough of them. >> we had the, kristen there went through what the clinton campaign is saying about this. here is an interesting angle on this. clinton supporters, maggie hassen, the governor of new hampshire, she was asked a seemingly simple question today, if she thinks hillary clinton is honest and trustworthy, this is what happened when she was asked that question. >> do you think that she's honest and trustworthy? >> i support hillary clinton for the presidency because her experience and her record demonstrate that she's qualified to hold the job. >> you think she's honest. >> she has a critical plan among others for making college more affordable -- >> do you think she's trustworthy? >> i think she has demonstrated that commitment also to something beyond herself, bigger than herself. >> and by the way, we should say, the governor's staff said she does consider clinton hones have guessed it from that interview. this is somebody running on the same ticket with her in a swing state, is asked that question, and dancing around it like that, that does sort of make the republican point, doesn't it? >> it's a good illustration of the interplay between the trust number and the much higher number, does she have the temperament to lead. i mean, that's really where the slippage is here. her trust numbers might never budge, but given the candidate whom history has dealt her, that might not matter, because the temperament issue, judging from the polling numbers you just reported today, seems to be paramount in people's minds. >> heather mcgee, that question of temperament, we were running through the qualifies there, 42% of voters saying hillary clinton does have the temperament to serve as president, the question about donald trump was 17%. how much does that blunt the doubts about hillary clinton and honesty? >> i mean, people can answer honesty and trustworthiness in general, but it is really telling that they trust her to have the nuclear codes. it is really telling that they trust her to, you know, fight for the middle class. that's where she's starting to edge him out. trust with the company. that is where she's starting to take a lead. so, on the issues that really matter to a family's economic security and safety, the fact that she's leading, despite being, and i'll say, just five points behind trump on trustworthiness and honesty, means something about the political class in general, and how little trust there is of the political class in general, but i think the substantive points around the economy, around trusting to lead, that's more significant to people's vote. >> yeah, charlie black, is one of those more of a threshold issue than the other, the question of honesty versus the question of temperament? ultimately, when voters are in the booth and they are hovering over the two names there, does one of those matter more than the other? >> well, they both should be threshold issues, but you have a totally different, unusual race that, where we have two very disliked candidates. you've got between 25% and 30% of the voters who usually vote who don't like either of them. and those are the swing voters. we don't know what they will do. but it seems to me like getting back on the substantive issues is very important, until very recently, donald trump was leading mrs. clinton on who could handle the economy and who could handle national security and homeland security. he can get that back. those are the two big issues in the campaign. and if people look at him, they want change, 75% of the voters want change. they don't want more obama, and i must say parenthetically that obama care just completely collapsed today, and that's going to be apparent to all the voters and middle class people who might depend on it, so substantive issues will elect donald trump. >> heather, charlie, radikah, charlie, stay with us. the donald trump campaign has millions in the presidential war chest, but it is penny pinching in the air and ground game. is donald trump really in this race to win it? stay tuned. i actually think i'm doing good. i have the biggest crowds. you're there, you've seen them. nobody's ever had crowds like this, they say. >> do you have people beyond that? >> we're going to have to see. we're going to have to see. >> welcome back to "mpt daily." that was donald trump talking to fox news about the state of the race right now, at least as he sees it. still, therere a plenty of people out there starting to wonder just how serious trump is about actually winning the election in november and becoming president. trump often boasts about large crowds at his rallies, and all of the free media he's received over the course of the campaign, but when it comes to paid media, you'll have a harder time finding him on the air waves. look at the difference in spending on general election tv ads to date. team clinton, her campaign and the pro-clinton super pacs have spent $104 million on tv ads. team trump has spent $12.5 million. and that's not the only staggering number. here is how much the trump campaign has spent on its own. nothing. zero dollars. so, if he's not spending money on ads, what is he spending his campaign money on? well, there's been talk for months that trump's lack of a ground game, and he still has hardly any campaign staffers on the ground in any of the battleground states. tonight, he's going to be campaigning in wisconsin, that is a state that hasn't gone republican in a presidential election since 1984, with ronald reagan. we're going to take you there in 60 seconds.in s was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? a farmer's market.ve what's in this kiester. a fire truck. even a marching band. and if i can get comfortable talking about this kiester, then you can get comfortable using preparation h. for any sort of discomfort in yours. preparation h. get comfortable with it. hhis stellar notebooks will last through june. get back to great. this week sharpie twelve-packs just three dollars. office depot officemax. gear up for school. gear up for great. today on the heels of days of protests in milwaukee, after a fatal police shooting there, donald trump met with law enforcement officials. right now, he is gearing up for a rally in west bend. and that is where we find nbc's hallie jackson. so, hallie, we just asked there, if that last segment there, donald trump, and the question being raised of how much does he actually want to win this, and one of the things people are looking for, well, he's down in the polls, all these troubles we talked about, is he going to do anything in terms of spending money on ads, adjusting his campaign strategy, is he going to do anything to change his strategy to try to get back in it? what are you hearing on that front? >> reporter: so, listen, when you talk about strategy, steve, when you look at money that was spent on the airwaves from hillary clinton, you have donald trump with a pretty formidable war chest, but if you went out and bought a cup of coffee this morning, you have spent more money than donald trump on anything, really, when you look at paid tv ads. so, trump not spending money there, because, look at what happened during the primaries. one of the things that trump often does, and what he did again today is, he points to how he did back during the spring. back last winter, and essentially saying, hey, it works for me then, why do i need to change what i'm doing now, and back in the primaries, he spent very little money compared to his competitors on tv ads, so, in the mind of the trump, why would he change, even if his advisers want him to? he was real explicit about that in an interview that he taped today, here in wisconsin. i want you to listen. >> if you start pivoting, you're not being honest with people. i've gotten here in a landslide and we'll see what happens, i mean, in the end, don't forget, when i lost wisconsin, it was over for trump. except for one problem. i then went on a very good run. but -- no, i am who i am. >> here's the thing, steve. trump has a point. people, after wisconsin, where, this is a state, remember, a state that he is looking to make a play in. this is his second visit here in maybe the last ten days, but it is a state where ted cruz beat him handily, particularly in this suburb of milwaukee. it is a place that a lot of folks said, man, the never trump movement could be picking up steam now, ted cruz could be picking up steam. what happened? indiana, where donald trump within 48 hours of that contest, locked up the republican nomination. so, when he says, listen, i went on a run, he's pointing to history and what happened during the primaries. problem is, and the question is, how does he replicate that in a general election, going up against the clinton machine, frankly, that has had these ads out in battleground states for weeks? hallie jackson, i remember that wisconsin primary might and everybody thought the world had changed and they found it it hadn't. hallie jackson, thank you for that. let's bring back in our panel. heather, charlie, radikah, back with me now. it seems like, and it is interesting to hear that window into donald trump's thinking there, that he looks back at the primary season when he made all of these sort of gut level instinct decisions, people were telling him it was crazy and it worked. he wins the republican nomination. but it seems to me that there's a possibility here he was very good, his instincts were very good at connecting a big segmental of one party, but these same may not be serving him when it comes to general election voters. >> well, it seems clear that that's the case. he is still doing it at rallies, his perrer iffed form of commune case with voter, but we talked to him for our cover story last week, i haven't spent any money yet, why should i bother? you almost see trump the businessman thinking here, not only do i want to win the election, i want to have the most money at the end of it and, of course, that doesn't really matter. that's not how the game is played, so, it's -- it's very perplexing. the other thing is that he may not be spending money on ads, but as you watch the clinton ads, you're seeing a lot of donald trump. she is running a lot of clips of him in a very negative light, so, the funny thing is that there aren't many ads out there that are really about hillary, per se. it's all still about donald trump, it's just that he's being portrayed very negatively in the ad environment. >> charlie, let me ask you that question about the ads. we put the numbers up there, the disparity, $104 million to $12 million, pro-clinton to pro-trump, zero from the trump campaign itself. what are republicans saying about that right now? i imagine the question's being asked, trump has some money, where it is being spent? do we know? >> yeah, sure, we know, right now, it's in the bank. one reason mrs. clinton has a decent lead right now is having spent that $100 million. she and her allies, over the summer. i'll make you a prediction. not information, but just a prediction. starting labor day, the trump campaign and the republican national committee will be heavily on the air on tv, radio and digital. they have money. both of them have money. but they made a strategic decision to hold their fire for awhile. when -- i think the spending on advertising probably will be roughly equivalent between the two sides after labor day and that enhances mr. trump's ability to win. >> i always think back there's the story about 1996, and bob dole came out of the republican primaries with no money, he had to wait until the convention in the summer to get an infusion of cash. and the clinton campaign used those months when bob dole had no money to run all of these ads all around the country, build up this big lead. the story that's told of the '96 capab campaign is the clinton campaign won it in the early summer months when bob dole couldn't afford to be in the air waves. the dynamic you are describing of trump coming up in the fall, has he missed a critical window by not being on in the summer? >> well, it's a strategic decision. you'll have less money in the fall. maybe be outspent by mrs. clinton in the fall, if you did spend money in the summer. that's the decision they have made, but listen, i was there when that happened to bob dole, and i tell you something else. barack obama defined john mccain in a bad way in the summer of '08 and barack obama defined mitt romney in a bad way in the summer of 2012, because he had sue period resources. what the trump campaign has the rnc are doing is starting labor day, there will be no superior resources on the democratic side. this race is very loose. if you look at the likely voters in those polls, it's much closer, if you look at the measurements on the economy, who could do the best, and security who could do the best, it's very close. mrs. clinton could not have a worse image. and so, as i said earlier, mr. trump just needs to become the acceptable alternative, and he can. >> heather, the clinton campaign at this moment with the polls looking the way they are, is guarding pretty clearly against complacency, sending all the right public messages out there about not taking it for granted, still working. when you look at the next 80-plus days, what is the biggest vulnerability you see for the clinton campaign? >> i think the biggest vulnerability is the fact that polls don't vote. this still has to be an election where people who support hillary clinton turn out to vote. where there is a sense of momentum and movement, where people are calling their friends, they're talking to neighbors. that is what helps democrats win. and we are not seeing that yet. i think there are some real arrows in her quiver that have not, unfortunately, really been landing. one of them is the issue of debt-free college, which could be an absolute game-changer for african-american families, for working and middle class families, it reaches across the aisle, something that's very, very popular with republicans, that is say, i'll not just voting for the democratic nominee, i'm voting for my children, i'm voting for my ability to start a business. that's a huge issue, and frankly, because of the, you know, over $3 billion in free media that we're giving to donald trump because of the way he saturates the airwaves, and the way that the sort of scandal of the day has within been really hide what's actually going on with major policy differences between these candidates. >> all right, heather, charlie, radikah, stick around. the republican governor of north carolina is asking the nation's highest vote to keep its new voter i.d. law in place. i'm going to have reaction to the governor's move with the man who has fought against the state's voter i.d. laws. stay tuned. that's ahead. ♪ ♪ i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] lots more ahead on "mtp daily," but first, susan lee has the cnbc market watch. >> thanks, steve. stocks picking back from record highs. the dow sinking 84 points. the nasdaq slipping 34. housing starts jumped in the month of july, rising 2%, to the highest level since february. and economists, well, they had expected a decline. home depot posted revenue and earnings that beat estimates and raised its full-year profit guidance. consumer prices helped steady last month as fuel prices fell. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there's only one place where real and amazing live. book a seaworld vacation package and eat free. i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. (to dog)give it. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice! and checking your score won't hurt your credit. oh! (to dog)i'm so proud of you. well thank you. get your free credit scorecard at discover.com. even if you're not a customer. what knee pain?? what sore elbow? advil liqui-gels make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer what pain? advil. ♪ everything is cool when you're watching a screen ♪ ♪ everything is awesome, ♪ when you're sharing a meme ♪ ♪ a voice remote, "show me angry kings" ♪ ♪ you know what's awesome? everything! ♪ ♪ apps that please, more selfies, ♪ ♪ endless hours of the best tvs ♪ ♪ brand new apps, shows to go, ♪ ♪ awesome internet that's super whoa... ♪ ♪ everything is awesome xfinity. the future of awesome. i saw in the paper this morning that governor's gone up to the supreme court, said, no, still, we really want to do these restrictions, supreme court, will you let us restrict the ballot and close down access to people? i tell you, if you meet anybody on this trail who tells you, i don't think my vote matters, as you're trying to persuade them to vote for hillary clinton, they say, i don't think my vote matters, you say, it matters to the other side. >> tim kaine there campaigning in north carolina as that state's voting laws brush with the supreme court. in july, a federal court struck down key restrictions including voter idea, early voting dates and preregistration for 16 and 17-year-olds. republican governor pat mccolorry asked to appeal the decision and on monday night, the state formally asked the supreme court to hold the ruling, citing voter goconfusio. citing the vulnerability has been persuasive to the supreme court. but the appeals court found the law unconstitutional, they also found that north carolina's voting laws, quote, target african-americans with almost surgical precision, all by t trying to cure problems that did not exist, instances of voter fraud are minuscule nationwide. but donald trump is using the idea of rigged elections as a rallying cry. >> but we don't want to see people voting five times, folks. we don't want to see it. and i've heard some stories about certain parts of the state. the only way we can lose, in my opinion, i really mean this, pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. >> restrictions nationwide are getting tighter, according to the brennan center for justice, 17 states have new voting restrictions in place in time for the 2016 presidential election. back with me now to dissect this, ari melber. so, ari, the state of north carolina says, let's put a hold on this decision, we're too close to the election. the security has some history of being sympathetic to that argument. is there a reason to think they will be here? >> that's right. they often look at this very practically and judges say, let's not create more confusion with our rulings or injustnctio that can stay something at the last minute. why the voter i.d. will probably stay kicked out is because north carolina itself had said earlier in this very case, this would be enough time. this would be an okay meline for them to deal with changes, whatever they may be. politically, it's so interesting, the sound you played from donald trump. in politics, like in sports, if someone tells you the only reason they could lose is cheating or the referees or something that has to do with anything other than their per formans, that's usually a bad sign, because this is obviously an open election, there are a million reasons in side could win or lose. so, that's a telling piece from him, but it goes to, obviously, both sides making a lot of noise about what should be fair elections. >> but the longer term question here in terms of the law here in north carolina is, if the supreme court goes along with the state of north carolina, that it stays on the books for this election in 2016, but either way, after this election, this law is gone going forward? >> well, either way, you ultimately have a final decision of the supreme court of how much it wants to get involved. so, it can leave this kicked out or it can take the case, and then the legal middle step that we care a lot about for november, if the supreme court were to take the case, budoes i leave it the way it is or make a change. they usually do what is the least on strusive thing. there's a lot of debates over voting. it is not true when liberals say that any time any republican makes a change, it's automatically bad or racist or counter turnout, and it's not true when republicans have tried to say that voter fraud is a giant problem. what donald trump alluded to is not supported by the evidence or statistics. what is important here, this isn't just a jump ball of false equivalency. you have federal judges that looked at this particular rule in north carolina and said it was intended to discriminate based on race. that is unconstitutional and unless the supreme court intervenes that is the law of the land, so, that's an important step in a state like many states in the south that has had a lot of debates about whether racist voting rules are a thing of the past or a thing of the present. these judges saying, a thing of the present. that's bad for republicans. >> all right, ari, thank you for that. reverend dr. william barber has been one of the leaders in north carolina fighting against the restrictions. reverend, thank you for joining us. well, so, let me ask you about the argument that's being put forward here by governor mccolorry, by the state of north carolina, they say, look. it is too late right now, it is too close to the 2016 election, to the november election, to change what we had planned, what we had been preparing for what do you say to that? >> well, first of all, the governor is the one who is confus confused. he has a bad case of trump-itis. and that is doing something wrong and then blaming other people for the consequences. they waited more than 17 days to file this, it is not too late. it will not create confusion. what has been confusing to historians and to us in the civil rights community is why would a governor and a legislature in the 21st century engage in racism, unless they believe they cannot make their case in the public square. and they weren't just caught one time. they were caught twice. last week, a few weeks ago, the federal court said that it was intentional racism in the voter suppression case, and then, the unanimous panel came back again and said intentional racism in the way in which they gerrymandered the redistricting. so, this is price, the courts are not confused. only mr. mccolorry is confused. and we always have time to do things that are right. >> let me ask you a bottom line political question, because a lot of eyes nationally are on north carolina. we've seen polls there showing a close race, some even putting hillary clinton ahead. there's a big senate race. there's a big governor's race. they are expected to be close. the difference between having these restrictions on the books and in force this november and not, what does that mean in terms of numbers of participation, do you think? >> yeah, it is -- it is incredibly important. these laws that were put into place were to deal with the vestiges of the restrictions that had been in place. and we had moved in north carolina to being the fourth-highest per capita increase, 70% of african-americans had begun to vote. remember, the way they passed this law, they actually looked at what african-americans were using, and as the court said, surgically decided to remove them. now, he's talking about, he wants the supreme court to join him in wrong, uphold the photo i.d., take away 17 days of early voting, and even restrict the registration of 16 and 17-year-olds. we know that this can have tremendous impact. if we hear trump saying things like certain communities will cheat -- that's just coded race language. what we call southern strategy language that's being used. this is aboutknows it, the legi know it. they are trying to rig the election. they got caught red-handed, and now, rather than repent and say he was wrong, he's acting more like, you know, governor maddox out of georgia back in the '60s who called the voting rights act wrong, unconstitutional and immoral. what is immoral is any governor that would try to suppress the right to vote and do it in a racist way. >> there are a number of states that have new laws in the books heading into this election. there's that supreme court ruling in 2013 that effectively did away with portions of the voting rights act. are you looking at what's playing out right now in the courts of north carolina to be a turning point in that broader fight? >> i think it is a major turning point, when you look at what our states are doing, and other ones. 2013 was shelby, the shelby decision. that was the worst roll-back of the voting rights act since 1965. after shelby, you had a great number of these voter suppression tactics. in north carolina, the worst that we had not seen since the days of jim crow. those persons that want to suppress the vote understand that if you break up the -- if you can break the silent south, you can fundamentally shift american politics. i often say that in the south, the former confederate states, 11 states, that's 22 senate seats and u.s. senate, 31% of the u.s. house and nearly 160 electoral votes. so, if you can control the south, you can, in some ways, control the nation. they also know that if you register 30% of african-american voters in the south, and they vote, and they join with progressive whites and latino, you have a fundamentally new demographic. this is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the vote and try to hold onto the solid south, but the courts are beginning to come around, history is shifting, and the south is changing. and as it does, the nation will change. >> all right, reverend william barber, thank you for joining us. >> thank you so much. >> and we should note, we did reach out to the governor's office, asking him or a representative to join us today, no one was available. of course, we will keep that invitation open as this story moves forward. the lid is next, stay with us. from long island to buffalo, from rochester to the hudson valley, from albany to utica, creative business incentives, infrastructure investment, university partnerships, and the lowest taxes in decades are creating a stronger economy and the right environment in new york state for business to thrive. let us help grow your company's tomorrow- today at business.ny.gov at safelite, we know how busy life can be. these kids were headed to their first dance recital... ...when their windshield got cracked... ...but they couldn't miss the show. so dad went to the new safelite-dot-com. and in just a few clicks, he scheduled a replacement... ...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way to schedule service anywhere in america! so you don't have to miss a thing. y'all did wonderful! that's another safelite advantage. 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"the new york times" reports that former fox news chairman roger ailes is advising trump. he resigned his post ahmed sexual harassment allegations by past staffers, and received a reported $40 million upon his departure. the trump campaign is denying the report, telling nbc news that ailes and trump are long-time friends, but the former fox chair has no formal or informal role with the campaign. late last month, following ais' resignation, ump had this to say on "meet the press." >> roger ailes. is he thhelping you? >> i don't want to comment. he's been a friend of mine for a long time and can i tell you that some of the women that are complaining -- i know how much he's helped them and even recently, and when they write books that are fairly recently released, and they say wonderful things about him and now all of a sudden, they're saying these horrible things about him -- it's very sad. because he's a very good person. i've always found him to be just a very, very good person and, by the way, a very, very talented person. look what he's done. so, i feel very badly, but a lot of people are thinking he's going to run my campaign. my campaign is doing pretty well. we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd... after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2. because my eyes are everything. get between you and life's dobeautiful moments.llergens flonase gives you more complete allergy relief. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything. ♪ plenty to talk about tonight. let's get right to "the lid." the panel is here. let's start on this question of the debates. we just had that news about at least it's being reported that roger ailes might be advising donald trump in preparations for these debates. the trump campaign is denying that it's a thing but it does point to how important the debates now loom for donald trump, with the polls that we have been seeing. the campaign looking for a big moment to get back into it. the debates are your best chance left. when you look at that onstage matchup that's coming probably about a month from now, donald trump versus hillary clinton, it will probably be a desperate donald trump against a hillary clinton who let's face it, has been pretty good in that format. she certainly was against bernie sanders, against barack obama. how do you size up that matchup? >> well, i think he is going to feel desperate. i think if roger ailes really is actually consulting with him, the gender gap is going to be even wider than people are predicting. and i think in some ways, ailes really created the swamp from which donald trump emerged. he really is the one who created the audience for trump the entertainer to become trump the politician. so i would be very surprised if ailes weren't in fact playing quite a big role now that he's been pushed out of fox news. >> charlie, if you were advising donald trump on how to debate hillary clinton, you saw him up there onstage with all the republicans in the primary season. it would be a different dynamic one-on-one against somebody, he would be facing a female opponent one-on-one. what would your advice be to donald trump on how to handle that debate? >> well, first of all, without commenting on the allegations against roger ailes, he's a good man. he was a terrific entrepreneur and pioneer in the television business. he's not involved in the trump campaign, period. they told you that today. everybody ought to accept it. what donald has to do is talk issues. he has to get prepped on the stage to talk about the big issues, the economy, national security, obamacare, and make the case that it's the status quo mrs. clinton against change and he is change. he has to be a little bit -- any time a man debates a woman you have to be a little bit careful not to hit too hard but donald's a great debater. he's smart enough to do that. >> the republican primary debates it was donald trump flinging insults and he was taking incoming by the end and flinging it back. debating hillary clinton one-on-one will be very different than the republican primary debates. >> i think so. i think the challenge for the clinton campaign is there are so many possible things that could come out of donald trump's mouth and we saw a lot of them in the prime arary campaign. there could be more. it's incredibly unpredictable. the times he has delivered sort of more serious, substantive addresses on say foreign policy or the economy, he has resorted to a teleprompter. obviously the debate will call on him to speak extemporaneously. hillary clinton as you say is very good at that. you do wonder whether he will get flustered and fall back on some of the bluster that actually propelled him to victory in the primaries. >> that is the other thing. hillary clinton obviously prepares a lot, we have seen. you think she will have to come with a different sort of different one-liners, different material than she's used before? >> i do think that she will have to get into it a little bit with him. she will need to, and this is maybe a sad state of affairs, but she will need to be entertaining because she's sort of in the circus ring with him. that said, she also can't be pulled completely off of her game because she has a lot she actually hasn't said yet to a general election audience about her proposals and what she wants to do with the country, whether it's debt-free college or expanding social security, actually address money in politics which trump talks a lot about but his answer like it is to so many things is just trump himself. he doesn't have any ideas on reform. so this is her opportunity to actually make that case to a general election audience. i hope she doesn't get too far off her game. >> thank you to heather, charlie, radika. before we go to break, we want to note the passing of someone very familiar to those of us who love watching politics on tv. we learned just about an hour ago that john mcloughlin, founder and host of the mcloughlin group has passed away. his lively discussions pitting liberals and conservatives facing off against each other went on the air 34 years ago, back in 1982. until this week, he had hosted every episode of the show. the shows oven devolve into shoutfests and for better or worse, changed the way politics was discussed on television. before mclaughlin most political shows were tightly scripted, highly predictable. they were boring. the mclaughlin group was so influential it eventually led to the network sunday shows adding their own panel of journalists to their broadcasts. it was an absolute institution. i grew up watching it. john mclaughlin was 89. ♪ mapping the oceans. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energy poverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas. ♪ energy lives here. introduces new, easy-to-swallow tablets. so now, there are more ways, for more people... to experience... complete protection from frequent heartburn. nexium 24hr. the easy-to-swallow tablet is here. i'm hillary clinton, and i approve this message. michael hayden: if he governs consistent with some of the things he said as a candidate, i would be very frightened. gillian turner: he's been talking about the option of using a nuclear weapon against our western european allies. max boot: this is not somebody who should be handed the nuclear codes. charles krauthammer: you have to ask yourself, do i want a person of that temperament controlling the nuclear codes? and as of now, i'd have to say no. [bill o'reilly sighs] and as of now, i'd have to say no. one number 21 in the books. a dog, talked. we're decedent from the mighty wolf. a voice was heard. if you build it, he will come. a girl discovered magic. a revolution began. welcome, to the wonders that happen, everyday. welcome, to it all. comcast. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." have a good night. i'm donny deutch. >> i'm mark halperin. "with all due respect" to all that has come after john mclaughlin did it first and did it best. the pioneering political talk show host john mclaughlin has passed away. we will talk about him later in the program. first, another day and more
so republicans, donald trump, congratulations, you won the white house. yes, hillary clinton won about half a million more votes, but he won for electors. and that means according to the u.s. constitution, once the electoral college meets and votes, donald trump will officially be the president-elect. let that sink in america. this guy is going to be the president of the united states. and the face of the country to the world. >> automatically attracted to beautiful women, just like a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it. you can do anything. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> great job, america. now to the 60,265,8 60,265,858 o voted for donald trump, and those who -- donald trump his the republican party, which controls all three branches of government, they control the house, the senate and the white house. now you have given trump a man ultimately described as vengeful, erratic, and unnit to be president. and that's what conservative republicans said about him. you've give on him control of the fbi, the cia, the irs, pretty ironic since he probably hasn't paid taxes in 18 years and drones and nuclear weapons. republicans now have no excuse to do the things they have been promising for decades. once he gets to washington, trump will have to get really busy. he's promised to build a wall across the southern border, that's going to require an appropriation from the republican congress. why would fn't they do it? you don't want voters punishing you for not doing it. america, if this wall is going to get built, you are going to have pay for it. donald trump has promised to cancel daca, which means those who have identified themselves as immigrants under president obama. congress doesn't have to lift a finger to make this happen. trump can actually rescind obama's executive orders. the local police departments some of whom have been quite enthusiastic about his candidacy. trump has vowed to repeal obama care and replace it with something terrific. that means the republican congress will either need to pass a new repeal bill or send one of the 50-plus repeal bills to the house and senate and then to trump eels desk. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is simply end the filibuster on the first day of the new congress. when the repeal is signed, 22 million of you will lose your insurance. that number could go even higher because now donald trump is saying he'll keep a provision of the law that left by itself could force insurance companies out of business. we'll have more on that later in the show. trump has also vowed to implement a ban on any immigration to the u.s. and even muslim tourism to the u.s. if you're in a state with a large tourist -- offended by this idea my also rethink a visit to the united states in the trump era. meanwhile the supreme court will now have an open lane to overturn roe v. wade, means women may soon be refighting issues of abortion state by state. for black lives matter activists and anyone who values the civil rights division of the justice department for the preservation of voting rights-and then hello, world. he could be joined in the cabinet by pitchfork sheriff david clarke as head of homeland security. with a trump appropriation in the u.s., a woman is now leader of the free world, no, not that woman, this woman. german's angela merkel. she's now all that stands between russia and it's global ambitions and we'll explain that in a bit. so now that i have told you what you won, trump america, allow me to tell you what you've lost. you've lost the morality card. no longer can the u.s. go around lecturing the world about democracy, because in our democracy, the person who got the most votes will not be president. nor will the party that got the most votes control the house of representatives. again, we're required to accept this after front to democracy, because that's our system. but our acceptance doesn't make it any less democratic. you have also lost the notion of an exceptional america. because as it turns out, we're just another western nation falling into the ethno national forces sweepi ining across euro. we as it turns out are not so different after all. you have also lost the right to moralize to blue america about family values. we inserely hope and pray that your daughters and your sis teschs and your wives and all women and girls are never disrespected the way that the. when your sons and daughters ask you if little girls are as valuable as little girls or should emulate the values of the united states, we'll leave that to you to explain. and lastly, you have lost the right to rattle on about immigrants. you are now the party of donald trump. you saw exactly who and what he was and you chose it. you're going to have to own that. if the incoming president makes you feel proud, i'm very happy for you, but please don't tell the people who are afraid that they have no right to be. and my friends in the media who are rushing to normalize trump, who are blindly calling on scared teachers and students to come together and accept what's happening while donald trump ushers in an emboldened kkk and will soon have a place in the white house. please remember that nothing has at as changed about donald trump. he is an unpopular person who's under criminal investigation, whose foundation was found to be a sham of self-dealing. and who is in unknown amounts of debt to unknown foreign entities in a way we have never known as a president. he's still the guy who has made statements who has offended any group in the u.s. he's still the guy who said that. >> automatically attracted to beautiful women, i just start kissing them, it's lying a magnet. and when you're a star, they let you do it, you can do anything, you can grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> this isn't about access or normalize e e iz normalize-with the same zeal and skepticism and doggedness that we -- maybe we need to cover him with more toughness and skepticism, and when we come 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entire law. because requiring insurance coverage to people who are already sick only works if you require healthy people to carry inshushs. if you don't have the mandate, premiums will spiral out of control. it's literally called the health insurance death spiral. repealing the entire law would leave 22 million people without insurance. but what donald trump wants to do could potential lly leave millions more without health care. and reverend barber, i want to go to you first. north carolina, i believe you guys are still in a recount with your governor and a lot of the opposition to him was driven by his refusal to accept obama care, to take the expanded medicaid. i want to talk about in human terms what the repeal of obama care would mean to the poor. >> in our state alone, it would mean 500,000 people losing access, they already are being denied because of our governors and legislatures that's white people and veterans in the 19 or 20 states who have refused medicaid expansion, you're talking about 8 million. and for every 500 ,000 people denied, we're talking about 2,800 people dying each year and thousands of jobs being lost in the very areas that need it. and rural hospitals m of which serve white persons and african-americans being closed. it's irrational when people say that they voted for trump for change. what i believe when you have fear rooted in racism, it's e irrational. and that's why we cannot walk away from the racial side of this election. somebody called it, they said this is -- this change wasn't over immigration and health care, it's about restoring a racial hierarchy. and donald trump fed that, they bought into that and voted literally against their own self-interest, even their own health care. >> the interesting thing is that it also in a lot of ways really empowers the very establishment that a lot of trump voters say they oppose. more than 100,000 people selected health care plans, signed up for the affordable health care act just wednesday, the day after the election. i want you to listen to speaker paul ryan, who didn't want to say donald trump's name to being absolutely giddy because he has a whole list of things he wants to do, let's talk about paul ryan talk about health care. >> what people don't realize is that because of obama care medicare is going broke. because of obama care, medicaid is in fiscal straits. you have to deal with those issues if you're going to repeal and replace obama care. >> let's talk about what paul ryan wants to do which is to privatize medicare, and appeal all of obama care. what would that do. >> there's lots of problems with medicaid and medicare and they're not with obama care. medicaid and medicare cannot negotiate prices of prescription drug which is unheard of. why wouldn't you be able to? the idea is that obama care exists because there's a mandate, because insurance companies just wouldn't insure those who aren't insurable then they would have to be on medicare and medicaid, that's the problem. so medicare and medicaid being broken is a long standing problem that has to be repaired. the idea was to take pressure off the entire system with obama care, it didn't go as far as it could have in terms of managing the cost size of the equation, but it went a long way towards insuring those extra 22 million people. economically this is not feasible. you cannot say as donald trump did, i want to keep kids insured at home, i want to keep people with preexisting conditions in sho insured, at least you'll get a choice. you can't keep half of it, it's kind of like being half pregnant. >> the trump health care policy as we know it is they will change the affordable care act which is something they have wanted to do for a long time. allow insurance companies to sell across state lines, change insurance tax credits and deductions which means only wealthy ti y filers who already the detection. so explain to me how people who isn't wealthy and doesn't itemize their deductions would get health care. >> it wouldn't. paul ryan didn't say i actually think it's important for a working class family to have to choose between having health care coverage and going broke. if they did, so many states would not have expanded medicaid, particularly for working class people. >> going to indiana, his soon to be vice president. >> exactly. so the other piece that needs to be other than the mandate of course is the subsidies. here in new york, we had pre-exiexisting coverage you actually have to support people in order to require them to pay into insurance companies in order to get to see a doctor. now we could go an entirely different direction, where we have single payer, where we have a public option, where we have medicare or call. >> a single payer can negotiate prices. >> david k. johnson, one of the interesting things and you have covered donald trump for a long time. is the reason he changed his mind suddenly on repealing the affordable care act. i'll just read it to you, from "the wall street journal" interview, mr. donald trump said a big reason for his shift was that thursday meeting at the white house with the president who he said suggested areas of the affordable care act to preserve, i said i would look at his suggestions, the last person he talked to is what he wants to do. in your view, does donald trump have an ideological desire to repeal the affordable care act. >> donald has said that health care should be a right just like going to public school and he's in favor of no out of pocket health care. so when we went into the campaign on this rant, it was part of his racist appeal, and his white supremacist appeal to get votes. and with everything else he said during the campaign, we're now going to see he's going to do whatever he thinks is the right thing to do at the moment. i don't see any serious policy here. donald is not somebody who sits down and reads policy papers for hours on end like president obama for example. >> one of the things that drove a lot of white evacngelicals wh overwhelmingly supported donald trump was this idea of abortion being really important to them and for some people birth control. vax says donald trump can end the free birth control mandate which bothered a lot of conservative christians. some of these things could actually happen even if congress doesn't help him. >> you know what i think droe those so called evangelicals is -- it was more about the backing of the money behind it, the business interests. this whole business of white evangelicalism started in the 40s when they wanted to find a theological way to come against what franklin delano roosevelt was going. the realty was they walked away from the primary pieces of the gospel. how can you support somebody who stands up and tells you, if you elect me, i believe that minimum wage is already too high. i'm going to take people's health care, i'm going to priva privatize schools. and that's one of the things we have rejected in this particular election. that is why you cannot understand this irrational vote without factoring in the racism, factoring in the white rage, the white backlash that trump and not just him, that began even when obama first got elected and ryan and others have played on. and they played on it because they want to do two things get elected and siphon government money through tax cuts. it is a dangerous form of politics, which is why i don't think -- people say you congratulate him. the role, particularly moral leadership is not to congratulate him, but to counsel him, to counsel him to repent, not just what he said, but what he put on paper. it's about what he said on paper that is so dangerous where we are right now. >> i want to go through and ask, and it's an important point, because i think while we're doing the pageantry, we need to talk about the policy and what he would actually do. in the end, do you think the affordable care act would be repealed under a trump administration? >> they're not going to do nit a running back, they're going to take their time, they're going to want to limit the damage to an election two years out. the outcome is not going to be good for poor and working class people. there's a strong racist element in this. >> do you think it's pragmatic to say that republicans would fully repeal and risk 22 million people's backlash. >> this is the congress that voted against obama care and who voted against the iran deal. i think they're going to rush as headlong as possible and as fast as possible into repealing obama care. i think maybe donald trump is rethinking this thing. donald trump's goingo come up against congress. this congress is a little bit economically off its rocker and has been for several years. i don't hold out hope that they're going to all of a sudden decide, there's parts of this obama care thing we like. i'm worried they're going to pull it out permanently. >> i think the outcome of the -- david k. johnson saying this is really about racism is extremely important here, i think they understand as donald trump did that actually having government policies that help people have a decent way of life is surprise, surprise quite popular as long as it's not seen as redistribution from white americans, real americans, to people of color who are undeserving at best. they will move immediately to rename it to something else, start calling it something else, keep popular provisions and i do think that they won't want to because they are actually ideal logical logically opposed to president obama and what he represents. i don't think they will want to shoot themselves in the foot by making an ongoing conversation about 22 million people losing their health care. >> if they do that and decide to try to pass a whole new health care bill, i will be shocked. but it will not surprise me if just for ideological reasons they go ahead and do it. >> i just want to say one silver lining in this is they no longer have color now, and everything they do they have will to own it and the people will see it. i believe once they see what they do, even they will -- this may be their demise more than not getting elected, in fact getting elected and having to own everything they do from here forward. >> this is what happens when the dog catches the car. thank you all. and coming up, will trump bill that wall that got his followers so riled up? stay with us. my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my busin.. which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? i just want to find a used car start at the new carfax.com show me used trucks with one owner. pretty cool. [laughs] ah... ahem... show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com. the medicare enrollment deadline is just a few weeks away. changes to medicare plans could impact your healthcare costs. are you getting all the benefits available to you? new plans are now available that could increase your benefits and lower how much you pay out of pocket. to update your coverage- or enroll for the first time -- call healthmarkets. we'll help you make sure you have the right medicare plan. hi, i'm doctor martin gizzi. it's a new medicare year. that means more changes... and more confusion. here's what i tell my patients... start by asking ... what kind of care is best for your current situation? have there been changes in your health or medications? the key question is: what can you do now, to ensure you get the care you need in the coming year? to find the coverage you need, call healthmarkets today. new medicare plans in your area may offer better coverage and lower costs. healthmarkets has access to thousands of medicare options from leading insurance companies nationwide. plans that may... cost less... cover more ... with more choices... like dental and vision care. and the freedom to choose your own doctors. all at a price you can afford. we help find the right plan for you. and we do it at no cost. there were so many benefits i wasn't taking advantage of. healthmarkets can find me the right plan. and their service doesn't cost a cent. when i try shopping on my own, i get nowhere fast. healthmarkets takes away the confusion. too often i see my patients paying more than they need to because they don't know what they're entitled to. make sure you have what you need to get the care that's right for you. you have only a few weeks left. if you miss the deadline, you may have to wait another year before enrolling. call a licensed healthmarkets' agent now. call now. call this number by the deadline... and let healthmarkets find the right medicare plan for you - without cost or obligation. call now. 80% of recurrent ischemic, strokes could be prevented. and i'm doing all i can to help prevent another one. a bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. according to the guardian, trump -- the pipeline is near the standing rock sioux reservation in north dakota where thousands of protesters have been camped out since august because they consider the pipeline a threat to the water supply and tribal lands. officials said no decisions have been made. "a.m. joy" as covered this exten sily. coming up, donald trump on immigration. stay with us. at planters we know how to throw a remarkable holiday party. just serve classy snacks and be a gracious host, no matter who shows up. [cricket sound] richard. didn't think you were going to make it. hey sorry about last weekend, i don't know what got into me. well forgive and forget... kind of. i don't think so! do you like nuts? we will cancel all funding to sanctuary cities, we will stop illegal immigration, deport all criminal aliens and dismantle every last gang and cartel threatening our cities. >> welcome back. for all the talk of trump voters taking him seriously but not literally, the whole point is that he's not a politician, so they can actually expect him to followthrough on his promises and those plans include building a wall along the mexican border, deport undocumented immigrants. and repealing daca. the question is will he do it? and what will be the political consequences for the trump republican party. joining me now the raul reyes. i'm going to start with you raul on where we ended. the 78,000 young people who made themselves known to the federal government under daca, he doesn't need congress now, he can just rescind the executive order. what happens to those 27,000 people. >> the 740,000 of them, they are at risk. i can not overestimate right now the legal of fear and terror in immigrant communities across the country, not only among the undocumented but among people with mixed status families, among their allies. the wall, that may not happen. he can cancel daca. in 2012 and 2014, he decided that i.c.e. was going to go after hard criminals. and basically they can go after anyone, which puts long-term residents at risk. so we may very likely see home raids, workplace raids, and the dangerous potential in that is those are known to be chaotic, they sweep up long time residents with legal status. they sweep up american citizens, and we do know based on past experience they are so chaotic and they are not safe. and meanwhile while you're casting such a wide net, the hardcore criminals, they're basically running free because they know how to evade the government. >> and this would be done on television. let's just recall that americans now have phones, it will be done on cameras there,'s no way they're going to be dragging people out of their homes in the dark and no one see it. that's going to have political consequences. all the issues of who donald trump is assembling behind him. we know joe arpaio is available, he's been a big supporter. but there's another guy out there, his name is chris cobach, who a lot of people remember as the author of the papers please law, known to travel in the ranks of it will be what the southern poverty law center says are hate groups. this is the kansas secretary of state talking about the wall. take a listen. >> if we want to make mexico pay for the wall, we tell them, from this point forward, after our regulation is passed, if you want to send money home, and you're an alien living in the united states, you have to prove that you are here legally before that money can be sent. well that would shut off more than $10 billion a year and tell mexico, look, would you like to see these remittances end or would you like to help us pay for the wall. what would you pick? >> this is blackmail and it's also racial profiling to seize western union and money gram that are sent by any person who appears to be or is thought to be mexican. is that even legal? >> kris kobach, he is racial profiling in flesh and blood. he was the author of s.b. 1070. that the supreme court gutted and said that it was illegal because it was racial profiling and you have no idea how many people in arizona that were u.s. citizens got swept up in being identified simply by the way they looked. everybody right now in the united states, your alarm should be going on, because my mother always said you are who your friends are, because we have individual who is stay they are merciless when it comes to immigration reform. what i encourage people to do is start learning your rights. go to the aclu. we're still waiting for the trump administration to give us clari clarity. we do not have clarity yet on exactly what he expects to do, but the idea of the cast of characters that he's surrounding himself with is something we should be concerned be. and let me just read, when he said he is going to do a muslim ban, he was basically going to create a system where you would have to assess an immigrant's stance's on religious freedom, gender equality, gay rights, and it would surely provoke constitutional challenges, because he is basically going to the antithesis of who we are in this country. >> who would sit still for this? because if money gram and western union are now going to say that their businesses are subject to who? are police going to be standing inside western unions to see if somebody looks mexican? >> are you going to have to show some kind of proof of citizenship? he could change the work visa requirements to basically make it harder for people to come into this country. advisors to jeff sessions, who is against even legal immigration. and though there's a lot of confusion about trump's policy, he has at this point his personnel is policy. and what we can do now, what i tell people right now, what i have been telling people the last two weeks, the latino community, so many people are in shock, people are grieving, people are very scared. but now is the time, if you're feeling that scaredness, that sadness, now is the time if you believe in this country and believe is that all people need to be treated with respect and dignity. now is the time to realize that this country needs us more than ever. >> one of my favorite stories last week was by my friend who did a story in the huffington post. there is a tribe in arizona that's in control of tribal lands that span a 75-mile gap of where this supposed wall would be and the chief of that tribe has said that over his dead body will trump get his land to build a wall. you build a hole if you want to, but there's going to be a big old 75-mile gap in it. >> the amount of people that have come forth to basically unite and say this is the country they live in and they are going to fight tooth and nail for it is aspiring. but when we start talking about this idea of building a wall, by building a wall, you're going to ruin the environment as well. because you have natural migrations of animals that go back and forth. you have no concept of how the world works in a very certain way. when you start saying we're going to deport all these people, you're not only saying you're going to collapse homeland security, but you're going to collapse whole economies in the united states, but also in latin america and throughout because these individuals, there are whole countries that depend on remittances in order to be solvable. if youhink we have an immigrant crisis now, you haven't seen anything yet. >> it's very significant to mexico's economy, without those remittances, what a very likely consequence is increased immigration, legal and illegal into this country. >> i suspect that the governor of mexico is going to capitulate and say, okay, we're going to build the wall. it will be interesting to see if trump does get his wall through. we'll use american steel this time, because usually in his own buildings, he goes for the chinese steel. thank you so much. and in our next hour, what will happen with american foreign policy and law and order in this country over the next four years. simulati initiated. ♪ [beeping] take on any galaxy with a car that could stop for you. simulation complete. the new nissan rogue. rogue one: a star wars story. in theaters december 16th. yeah...r when you said that men are superior drivers? 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>> lisa bloom, the reason that that's relevant is there's a precedent here called jones v. clinton. that the president or any official does not have an immunity that extends beyond his official capacity. that means if any of these accusers sue donald trump for libel or sexual harassment, he would have to be deposed and stand trial, correct? >> my case of janice dickenson versus bill cosby. when she spoke out and accused him of sexual assault, he said that she was a liar. in other words calling a woman a liar when she comes forward with a sexual assault allegation can be defamation. and i represent actually four trump accusers, two who spoke out publicly using their name, one who came forward as a jane doe and one who is still considering it even now after the election, and she was just too scared to do it before the election. and if mr. trump is going to come through on that promise to stu his accusers, i will say it here i will represent any of them free, we will crowd fund defense costs, we will get discovery into mr. trump's activities, we'll get those apprentice types, we'll take his depositions and the depositions of all of his enablers. he knows that and his lawyers know that and that ee's why it' highly unlikely he's going to do it. >> even if donald trump didn't followthrough and sue some of these accusers, they could sue him. so you have that, let's put that in one box. in another box are these ongoing legal cases including against trump university. what is the likelihood that the judge's case would go away because donald trump has now been elected? >> the argument i'm too busy is not one that is actually ever flown. the probabilities -- i mean, it's difficult to predict possibili probabilities. but the case law is very, very strong. certainly the president doesn't have the ability to stop a civil action. the president-elect has even less power. you know, there is no constitutional power that, you know, attaches to the president-elect, other than you'll be president on january 20th at 12:00. other than that, you know, he is just arguing i'm too busy to have a case. and, you know, courts do not look on that as a legitimate argument. >> and just to stay with you for a moment, kurt, is this trump foundation. you still have the attorney general of new york has ordered donald trump university to stop raising money in new york. and pam bondi is now on the transition team, which isweird, and you've got at the same time donald trump saying his children are going to run his businesses in a blind trust and presumably going to run the trump foundation. is any of that normal, legal or doable? >> no. >> kurt, you first. >> let me start with this whole blind trust, it is a fundamental lie. i cannot take, you know, a cat, put it in a bag and say i don't know what's there. the whole essence of a blind trust is you take an assortment of investments and you turn them over to somebody that's independent, and that's it, it's gone, they're going to trade, whatever, you don't hear bit, and they are acting while in your best interest, they are acting independently. here, donald trump's family will be earning the money off of the trump organization, there is no blind trust here. you know, it is an absurd argument and it's one that, you know, i have written in "newsweek" about the fact that of the number of national security conflicts that are presented by the trump organization, donald trump knowing that donald trump jr. and ivanka and the rest will -- when he slams pakistan, instead of taking a balanced approach to india and pakistan. which choice is he going to make? his kids or the american people. >> you have trump invested in the pipeline, that presumably his own administration would approve. you have donald trump leasing the old post office down the street from the white house with his name on it and then moving into the white house. the legal entanglements here feel unpress dented. >> i just wrote a piece of avo.com about checks and balances. the best hope we have right now is the courts. the judiciary, the third branch of government and i believe that donald trump is about to bump up against the big beautiful wall of the constitution and the laws of the united states. it's one thing to run a company and you just issue edicts, everybody in the company has to follow them. it's another thing to run a country and you have to comply with the law at every turn. he's going to have a lot of problem with conflict of interest laws, anti-nepotism laws and more broadly, the u.s. constitution which requires equality of treatment, due process for everyone in the united states, whether they are a citizen or not. the first amendment so he's not going to be able to sue the "new york times" and his accusers and everybody else, i believe that's going to be the strongest bulwark for trump in the next few years. up next, donald trump hasn't exactly outlined a concrete foreign policy platform, but we do have some idea of what we can expect, more "a.m. joy" after the break. attention: are you eligible for medicare? 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aleve, live whole not part. painter: you want this color over the whole house? if someone hits us with a -- >> first of all, you don't want to say take everything off the table, because you would be a bad negotiator if you did. >> just nuclear. >> nuclear should be off the table. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." if we're to believe donald trump about his plans for foreign policy, america and it's world stage is about to undergo a dramatic shift. starting with a notable easing of policies with russia. a diplomat in the russian foreign ministry said that russia had contact with the trump presidential campaign. according to "the washington post." donald trump's spokeswoman hope hicks denied that there had been any contact between russian officials and the campaign before election day. but the question of donald trump and his campaign's chuminess with the kremlin hangs over a russian government that was accused by the obama administration of hacking e-mails to influence the outcome of the election. we haven't in fact heard anything yet from trump that constitutes a concrete policy or plan on russia. but his victory was nonetheless welcomed by russian president vladimir putin who trump praised on the campaign trail. and who sent trump a telegram of congratulations and expressed his optimism in american-russian relations. we do have a bit more clarity on trump's plans to lead our country in its approach to the middle east. the iranian nuclear deal will be -- full blown restart of their nuclear weapons program. the u.s.-back syrian rebels, they may soon be on their own. and to our allies in nato who are worried whether we'll continue to honor our commitments, the next white house offers them a definite maybe if they pay up. malcolm nance, msnbc contributor and author of the plot to hack america. a former intelligence operative and author of "how to catch a russian spy" and charles pierce, a writer fore esquire magazine. this is what they did. let me give you the foreign policy magazine's list. it said the following, that trump alternatively forgiven then defended russia's invasion of crimea, he spoke cavalierly about the use of nuclear weapons, embrace the use of torture in the violation of international law against it. suggest that he would ignore america's treaty operations and more than conditionably support allies in need and play into the hands of terrorist with his fear mongering and his sweeping vilify indicativille any indication. >> relations with russia worries me quite a bit. relations with russia, if it goes well, it actually is dangerous because vladimir putin and donald trump may make a plan that's not going to benefit the world. and if it goes badly there,'s nuclear threat that has been planning on both sides also can come into fruition and that's another very dangerous thing for the world. >> in a friendly relationship between vladimir putin and donald trump, who's in charge. >> i think for now, it seems that putin may be in charge, but knowing donald trump, i believe that that will not last long so that can actually bring the relationship to a nonfriendlier are because both of them will try to show that they're the ones who rule the world, they're the ones who control the world. and that is also as i said a very dangerous proposition and probably a very likely proposition, that the honeymoon, if there is a honeymoon is not going to last for long. >> malcolm nance, what worry you the most. >> it's a toss up and one of them you didn't have in your list, the first is the tearing up of the iran nuclear deal, if that is actually torn up and not modified, if it's just actually thrown into the burn bag, then what you have is possibly a jump-start of the iranian nuclear weapons program, which we stopped at a period of about 9 months from breakout. it's possible they could have one to five pounds of fissile material stowed away. if that happens, you could see israel viewing themselves as at risk and the only way israel would be able to dig that weapons program out is by nuking it itself. theoretically you could go from piece to atomic explosions in 24 months. that's number one. on the other side, if the united states moves its embassy out of tel aviv and jerusalem. >> what scares you most? >> it's a tough one to follow. i'll be a little bit of a contrarian here. when it comes to tough relations, the other side has a vote in this, it's not just iran and russia that scares me, it's iran, russia and china. those countries are going to remain our peer adversaries for the near future. so i look at this and say the way that we're going to figure out what happens next, trump running the campaign had no foreign policy, nothing that any of us could point to us definitively and say this is a policy, it sound ud more like campaign rhetoric. it's going to be who she chooses as secretary of state and secretary of defense. i'm concerned about putting general flynn in the cabinet because there's pictures of him having lunch with vladimir putin. it not just going to be just russia, it's going to be those two other countries and we have to protect our national interests. >> john bolton, who thought the u.n. could use a few fewer floors, walid farris who was just mentioned by malcolm, rudy giuliani, these are establishment people. what are the things that concerns you most it about a trump presidency, foreign policy wise? >> i defr to the -- what concer most is inexperience and naivete. apparently the strategy for draining the swamp is to put all the snakes in charge. >> apparently so. i want to go and talk a little bit more about the russia piece. the balance of power between the u.s. and the kremlin, the kremlin has been folking these populist movements around the world. we learn from heat street that there apparently, at least a report session that the fbi may have been granted a fisa warrant covering ties to russia. so you do have the federal government potentially looking into it. if there are members of donald trump's inner circle, people like carter page, people like paul manafort who have close ties to russia, and maybe even the russian hacking operations, some say we'll have peace if they're friends. >> americans should worry about, it's not just with russia, it's anybody that tries to hack the american political system is obviously something to worry about. also i have to say that there have been reports from the fbi, but there's also been great reports disputing the very notion and then just a suggestion by the fbi. and i must say from my point of view, america goes a little bit crazy when russia is heart. russia always goes first on the list, and the danger is not who had dinner with vladimir putin, but the danger could be on the other side, if john bolton becomes secretary of state as was promised, then the relationship with russia, how are they going to square that out? because john bolton is not going to have good relations with the russian foreign minister. so the squabbling in the white house in regard to russia and maybe in relation to other countries or other foreign policy agendas could also become very dangerous. because if there's a disparity between who wants to do what, then the world hangs in the balance. >> and trump supporters realize that walid farris and john bolton are neocons. they're going to be in the trump white house. i want to talk to you specifically about that fisa warrant question, who are known to also be trumpists right, and the other site saying there is an active investigation, where do you come down on that? >> it's worth saying again, the fbi is sort of split into two silos, one is the traditional gum shoe criminal part and the other is the director of intelligence, that runs not necessarily investigations but frankly intelligence operations, i worked for three years in that counter intelligence side, essentially as an asset, so i'm very, very intimately familiar with it. intelligence operations are not designed to build criminal charges but rather to disrupt a foreign entity's ability to gather intelligence and run operations. that part of it, though, i think, look, not only i think, i know it's going to continue on in the sense that the fbi counter intelligence squad has a russian squad in new york and they focus on russia and that's not going to change. the question is are we going to see charges that are brought against people that may have had connections to trump. joy, i have no doubt that wikileaks was a russian intelligence warfare operation, some cyber, warfare operation. now that trump is the president-elect, the russians only care about s sewing disconnect. i think you're going to see that propaganda, that information warfare operations continue on and it was successful and it may very well turn on donald trump. trump may be surprised to see the russians come after trump. >> malcolm, which brings me to the premise i put forward at the top of the show, which is now that angela merkel becomes a really important figure. you have the prime minister of the uk, but angela merkel, this was message to trump. jirn and america are connected by values of democracy, freedom and respect. i offer the next president of the united states close cooperation on the basis of these values. sort of a little bit of shade in that statement. but doesn't angela merkel, who's now the anti-putin, clearly opposed to what putin is trying to do in europe, not us, she is, how important does she become to the world's stability? >> right now, technically in terms of human rights and values that the united states has stood for in this city that i actually drafted those rights in. she essentially becomes the true leader of the free world. she is not espousing that we commit war crimes, she is not espousing that we should turn over policy to russia or that we should disband the greatest treaty organization in the last 50 years. on the other hand, germany is having it's elections in 2017, and she is going to be subject to the same cyber warfare operations we just suffered. so she may find everything she has ever said suddenly released through wikileaks and bring in -- russia carried out the single most -- they have managed to turn governments over which would never have considered these things. starting with the government of the united states. and i think this heralds deep, deep counter intelligence investigation. >> and not to mention france, it has its elections coming up too. >> if you watch russia today, which you probably don't, but i do. it has stories now, brexit, trump is only the beginning and angela merkel is facing elections and france is facing elections and it would be the same right wing populist and the west will join the club, this is something to consider, because russians are pushing into that direction. and angela merkel wasn't that important, she was the one who tried to explain to putin that he's much better in the civil e i ized nation camp. and now jemp claims that it's -- where everybody else gave up, now germany is the new west, its finally overcame the world war ii, its sort of bad reputation, but now it's going to lead the world. >> how awkward is it that the country that dealt with naziism is now the country that we're all looking to with hope that has a woman president, free college and is being looked at as the leader of the free world why we knneo naziism? >> i think that what troubles me most about the -- well, i mean, this is a measured choice at this point. but what troubles me most at this moment is watching, you know, really decent people led astray, and i know that sounds like cold war propaganda, but that's what's happening. a lot of people who voted for donald trump because he's going to shape things up and he has my back is going to find out he really doesn't. i don't know what's going to happen after that in terms of anger aing and frustration. >> we will definitely be keeping our eyes on it and watch it unfold. elections have consequences, folks. up next, it's not just donald trump himself, but also the people he surrounds himself with. we could be facing law and order rudy giuliani as attorney general. think about that while you watch this commercial. let me talk to you about retirement. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. -sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. would you trust me as your financial advisor? 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did it reduce crime? did it make black people feel safer? >> that was just a series of falsehoods, saying that stop and frisk did something to lower the crime rate. it brought lawsuits along with our partners at ccr and a district court, a federal court judge held that these policies were discriminatory, that they did not in fact improve the quality of life and were intended to target minorities. there's no way that we should roll back the clock and try to resurrect policies that have been harmful, that have been f divisive -- >> i have lived under ry giuliani as mayor of new york. you have experienced rudy giuliani first hand. what do you think he will -- running, overseeing the civil rights division of the justice department and combining him with bringing backstop and frisk nationally? >> it's a horrifying prospect. i cannot think of anybody more ill suited to do that job than rudy giuliani. one of the things we're seeing in our society is that communities are being criminalized, so you have african-americans being considered criminals and muslims who are consider eed terroristso we have to shift from on idea of criminalization to an idea of community protection. and that's been a job of the civil rights department. he is the last person on the planet that would want to do that, would be capable of doing that and it's a horrifying prospect. >> again, to live in new york under mayor giuliani was to be terrified if you were a person of color to feel hunted by the police. so if you're not from new york and you don't know who this person is and you think he's just mr. 9/11, i want you to listen to him himself, and i was sitting on the desk here at msnbc when he said this, when he was asked a qstion by our colleague chris matthews about trump winning, this is the first thought that came to rudy giuliani's mind on election night. >> this is like andrew jackson's victory, that is the people beating the establishment. the people are rising up against a government they find to be objectionable. >> heather, referencing andrew jackson. your thoughts? >> making america precivil war, again. i mean, really, we have weaponized the idea of white fear through this election. and rudy giuliani is some ways is a really strong personification of that idea, that he's called black lives matter as a movement is inherently racist. we know in the broad -- the shift of having a department of justice that's going to investigate widespread misconduct by police departments like those in ferguson and those in baltimore, it's a risk that we run that someone who could be put in that position to uphold the civil rights and liberties of the people of this nation is someone with a terrible record of police brutality. we have stories of people beira with toilet plungers. this is visceral, and it's something that we have to take a step back and say wait a second, nobody actually is saying that this is the way our country should move forward. but there isn't actually this broad mandate for a return to the dark days of the police force of giuliani's new york and the dark days of giuliani's new york. it's one thing to be a commentator on the news, but it's not thing to put this person from the past to put in charge of our nation's laws. >> the other person who's being thought of for the job, david clarke. this is a tweet he put out, it's incredible that our institutions of government, white house, congress, doj and big media. and this is his new attitude towards protest on friday when feel who are scared of the trumpists who are beating up gay people and hispanics and threatening people and scaring children, he said these riots are not protests and should be quelled quickly, these goon and an arkists. this is someone who died in his jail. your thoughts on him potentially becoming homeland security director. >> it's hard to process all of the horrible things that people are saying. i would say this. in any attorney general that looks at the right to protest a and the way is that people are pushing back against police brutality and pushing back against racism and sees that as a threat to the rule of law and order is someone we have no business employing in our government. the first amendment and our right to protest as humans and as african-americans is key and it has to be upheld and we cannot have anybody in here that can step on that. >> last before we go, the police officer who choked and killed eric garner, thinking that he may get a reprieve. >> we simply cannot allow that to happen. this is significant shift, but we still need to hold anyone who is a new president-elect to enforce these laws, the department of justice has a duty, it's the most prominent agency to enforce the rule of law. it's high time we call these statement what is they r this is a direct appeal to white tribalism, this is not a vote for change, this was a vote for status quo and white privilege. the 75% of african-americans who did not support donald trump, it is our duty to come out and make sure we hold this administration as accountable as any other. we must remained offended, we must remain outraged and oppositional to the absolutely degenerative policies that he's trying to put forward. >> go not go home and hide under your pillow and be depressed. there's a lot that we have to remain vigilant about. mpb up next, more "a.m. joy." e . beyond assuming the source is safe... to knowing it is. beyond asking for trust... to earning it. because, honestly, our pets deserve it. beyond. natural pet food. trump has promised jobs, jobs, and more jobs, is a booming economy really on the horizon? 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fedex. helping small business simplify e-commerce. raise your hand if you voted for president obama in 2008. raise your hand if you voted for president obama in 2012. raise your hand if you trust donald trump to turn this around. >> i'm thinking about it. >> what are you thinking about? >> i don't trust hillary. >> many of the same rust belt white working class voter who is proudly chose hope and change in 2008 and then picked four more years with the nation's first black president in 2012, those voters on tuesday, many of them voted for donald trump. in wisconsin, 54% of white voters chose obama in 2008. on tuesday, only 42% voted for the democrat. the same voting pattern was amplified in ohio. pennsylvania saw virtually the same trend and so did michigan. joining me now to help explain the rust belt shift from obama to donald trump is filmmaker michael moore and robert p. jones of the public relations institute. michael, you're one of the few people that called this election. we were on real time together when you said donald trump was going to win. this was months ago and nobody believed it. i think part of the reason that it was covered in the media was that we didn't think it was going to happen. so why did it happen? >> it happened because, well, for a number of reasons, but nobody took trump seriously. nobody i should say in the media and the elites. i think a lot of people of color took him seriously, i think a lot of immigrants took him seriously. and because i live in michigan i took him seriously because i saw what was going on. and because i'm his demographic, i'm an angry white guy over the age of 35 who only has a high school education, that's me. so these are my friends. and they voted for obama the last two times and i'm like what are you doing talking about voting for trump. they're so angry and upset at the fact that they know they're never going back into the middle class, the jobs they used to v they used to dream of their kids going to college, they used to think about life would be a bit better than their parents had. and none of that was going to happen. and they don't like trump, they really don't like donald trump, but they love the fact that he would be their human molotov cocktail that they could throw into the system and blow it up. because that's what he said he would do, he's going to blow up the system. i said don't you understand the fact that he's not going to do any of these things he says he's going to do? he has his own ideology, and it's the ideology of donald germaj. donald trump, that's what he believes in. and being right, joy, gives me zero pleasure because as i said on your show last wreak, never have i wanted to be proven more wrong and i asked people to make me wrong. but i have been calling this the brexit states back in june. i was actually in the uk the week before the brexit vote. i saw what was going on, i saw the similarities. wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan and ohio is our brexit states, i said he is going to manipulate the white working class to come out and vote for him and he pulled it off. for the last few days, i have been with people not in shock, not surprised, but begin, here we are. so now it's like, i'm also not depressed because we have got -- i'm leavingsi here to go march trump tower. >> i want to go through some numbers really quickly with you, robbie, because you talked about those brexit states. wisconsin, white voters in 2008 went 54% to 45% for obama. this time it was reversed. it was 42% for hillary clinton. you go to ohio, same thing, complete reversal. you had donald trump win 61% of the white vote in ohio whereas barack obama managed to get 46% in 2008. and a majority in 2012. you go to white voters in pennsylvania, where you had 56% going for donald trump this time, up from 51% in '08. same thing in michigan. let's go to some of these other numbers. union verse nonunion. hillary clinton won the overall union vote, she won at 51% to 43%. but nonunion households went for donald trump 59% to 46%. one of the things i got wrong in this, i figured white working class voters, you could see they were going for trump. that was really obvious. what i think surprised a lot of the polling firms and a lot of us in media, was that white college educated voters went more for donald trump than was expected. how do you explain that? >> one of the things we don't see in the polling that got a lot of play, actually if you look at the demographics of the trump supporters, they weren't all angry white men. he was making real enroads among white college educated incomes. not lower class incomes. i have called this election the white nostalgia election, really this election is about a kind of vision of the world, and i think an easy way to think about it is are we a 1950ser a 2050 electorate. and it has an economic base that mike was talking about. and this economic base that was there in the 1950s that was there before is that has completely eroded. but is this kind of demographic and cultural piece, and i think there's a real danger purely for progressives to overplay the economics and underplay the cultural piece of this. i think that's vitally, vitally important. when obama boobarack obama was thavls the same year we -- and adjust during barack obama's presidency, we have gone from being a majority white christian nation to a minority white christian nation, so when we asked people do you think -- as american culture and way of life changed for the better, changed for the worse, that's a cultural question. we had 2/3 of democrats saying it's changed for the better. and we have with 2/3 of republicans saying it's changed for the worse, and that's including three-quarters of white evachb jengelical voters. so i think the real answer to how did donald trump hold together from michigan to mississippi, pennsylvania to mississippi. it is this economic engine, the culture really playing this other extra turbocharging role to end this election. >> and you have been talking about this a lot, it's not just economics, because people with money, they just culturally had a tissue rejection against the current sort of broad cultural changes. >> we have been saying this, you just simply cannot separate race and class. the way we as human beings understand our place in the world is tied up in both of those things, our sense of identity, our relative worth and status, and how much actual economic freedom we have. and in america, politically, those things have been so co-determined. and it's very -- we did a video actually with move on, called you can't fix economic inequality without talking about race. at the same time when michael moore talks about the sort of loss of the decent good job and the sort of whole package of being able to send your kids to college, have a great job on a high school degree, have retirement security, that has been shipped away over the past 40 years because of trickle down economic policies that were sold to white voters. >> and trump ask going to give the biggest tax cut, if he gets his way, he's going to give the biggest tax cut in history, he's going to end the estate tax. he has no intention of delivering on his campaign promises. and they do want a new economic order, there are electoral consequences to economic inequality. >> i'm struck, michael moore by a quote in a "new york times" article about carier steel, donald trump talked about carrier moves to mexico. and there was a woman named nicole, who talked about this promise that trump made about stopping this company from taking these jobs. nicole hargrove who's worked at carrier for a decade and a half. why didn't the democrats run a single ad that talked about the fact that donald trump used chinese steel in all of his building s and not ohio's. >> because the democrats vote much better than the republicans. are corporate it ises, they believe in corporate america, obama's number one contributor in 2008 was goldman sachs. all the money that clinton took, i love obama and i'm going to miss him immensely. what is really important to me, whether it's white working class, or white college educated. white people who voted for obama twice and then voted for trump. white people, no matter what the pain they're in, have a responsibility to reject anybody who stands in front of a camera and spews racism, who spews, sexism, misogyny, who brags about being a sexual predator. i don't care what your race is, but especially live if yif you' you have a special responsibility as a white person to always reject anybody who uses racism, who spew this is hatred, and it's like i think there will be a regret like with brexit in england, that people will wake up, maybe in a week, maybe tomorrow, maybe not at all. it's not going -- i can't imagine, i mean, i'm white. what's this feel like this morning? if you're not? you know, i -- i mean, seriously, white people who are listening to this, have an extra duty and responsibility now to stand in front, to stand in front of any abuse or attack on people of color, on immigrants, a special responsibility. do not call yourself a christian if you are not willing, literally to put your body in front of whoever is coming to hurt the other. the people who are not you. >> unfortunately, we are out of time. i just want to thank robbie, i want to thank, heather, by really want to thank you michael moore for what you have done and what you have suede. said. i'm going to give you my safety pin. >> thank you so much. >> michael moore, i appreciate you, man. >> everybody should wear one of these. >> i appreciate you so much, man, thank you. >> thank you. >> when we come bark, we want to hear from you guys, we asked our terrific viewers what questions you would want to ask and let you get off your chest what you feel. we have some terrific questions, that is coming up when we come back on "a.m. joy." how could this have happened? ever since donald trump's victory on tuesday the question has plagued progressives everywhere. now even more questions are bubbling up from an angry electorate including some of our viewers. we will try to answer some of those right now. we are back with heather mcgee, and we asked michael moore to stick around and he said he would do it. you guys sent in terrific questions. i want to start with karen, karen had a question about white women voters and hillary clinton. let's play karen. >> hey, joy, it's karen. i'm a 55-year-old pant suit nation hillary supporter from arizona. i am just baffled with what happened with white women, college educated women, in this election. i'd love to hear your take on what is this fear, misogyny, demographics, policy? how did so many white college educated women decide to vote not for hillary? >> i'm going to throw that one to you, michael. college educated white women. what happened? >> why didn't they like hillary is my question. >> yeah. >> and let's just say historically it's not unusual to see group -- people who are in the oppressed group and we have to say that the majority gender because they only hold 20% of the power is in that group -- i don't want to finish the sentence, it's too painful. you know what i'm saying. it's that you don't understand that against each other. you know, if you read the history -- go back, martin luther king, it was very difficult for him and for the young civil rights people at that time in the fight that they had with the older members -- >> the black people, sure. >> -- of the civil rights movement and who were telling them you can't break the law, you can't sit in, you can't do this. maybe this is going to be a generational shift where the millennials are going to fix this for us. >> so white women overall did go for donald trump by 10 points, which is shocking, but there was that same college educated divide that white college educated women, many, went for donald trump but overall hillary did win them. in fact, my colleague has this great piece online now which talks about how white college educated -- or college educated women overall are some of the only people who have actually really had clear progress over this past generation of the inequality era and white working class women without a college degree they are the ones who are becoming the sole bread winners as the factory jobs are gone where their husbands and partners are not able to work. that is a very real economic reality, but it's where race trumped gender. >> trumped gender. >> it's pretty -- >> pretty scary. let's go to question three. this is a request he from barry and barry has a question i think i probably have more of this on my twitter feed than anything else. i'm reading barry's question, this was from facebook. sorry. it says: are there restrictions on who electors can vote for? there is no constitutional profession or federal law that requires electors to vote in regards to the popular vote in the united states. does anybody have answer and for that. our system is we get to do a popular vote and that's just a suggestion. do could the electors in theory rebel and vote for who won the popular vote? >> for the second time now a republican has won the electoral college without winning the popular vote in my own lifetime and the electoral college itself was a racist institution that was brought about as a compromise with slave holder states in the rural population and it is yet again sort of stopping the will of the people from being expressed. now, we also have a democratic norm which are actually probably more controlling than the law right now when hillary clinton came out and conceded, when the president said, you know, this is now the time for peaceful transition of power, that stopped it more than any actual law that would say that we couldn't just be as, you know, kind of break with this tradition that frankly is born out of one of our ugliest traditions. >> absolutely. navit, you were goingo jump in. >> i don't know the specific state by state, but i knew washington state where i live the fine for an electoral representative for not voting in the popular vote is i believe $1,000. so there is an actual law on the books, but it's, you know -- it's not something that's -- it's not something -- you are not going to end up in jail for not voting in the popular jail. >> there is a quicker way than getting a constitutional amendment, enough states have passed laws saying that their electric torse are to go with whoever wins the popular win, it was 168 electoral votes right now have been committed and in maryland i think joined them yesterday, that's another ten, that's 178 of the 270 we need of enough states who people can pressure their state legislature to vote to say that this has to happen, whoever wins the popular vote wins the election. >> that is another reason to vote in statewide elections. let's play amanda. amanda has a question i think is poignant that we should play, this is amanda's question she sent us on twitter. >> -- keep telling us what do we tell our kids. some kids there is nothing you can tell. what do you tell them when they are going to be afraid every day they might lose a parent? what can you say to those kids? >> malcolm, what do you think? what should people be telling kids that are afraid of deportation? >> gosh, to be quite honest i don't know what you would tell them other than, you know, i'm in philadelphia, i'm in the birthplace of american liberty and the values which were written down in this city just five blocks from me right now are what holds this nation together. and my fear for her and for her children is have we just walked away from all of those values? you know, are we teetering towards fascism? i don't know. but you have to stand up, you have to let your voice be heard and if you feel opposed to something, be opposed to it. be a patriot. and there are true patriots out there are the people who question everything, but, you know, we just had this election, more people voted for one side and you have to stand up and hold your ground. don't walk away from this. >> absolutely. i want to thank all those who sent in questions, we had really great questions, we have such smart viewers. thank you, heather mcgee, michael moore, we will have have you all back. that is our show for today. .sure to join us at 10:00 a.m. eastern for more "a.m. joy." up next alex witt takes a look at the growing protests against donald trump, including a large demonstration about to start in new york that michael moore is heading over to as soon as he leaves the set. >> to the streets. good
democrats and it's heavily weighted with democrats. and then they'll put on a poll where we're not winning, and everybody says, oh, they're not winning. what they do is they try to suppress the vote. this way people don't go out and vote. but we're winning this race. i really believe we're winning. >> well, later in the day, trump said the poll shows he's down, but said his voters have greater enthusiasm than clinton's voters. let's listen to that. >> i think we're going to have a brexit situation. you know, that one was behind in the polls, and i guess i'm somewhat behind in the polls, but not we much. i mean, in your state, i'm one point, two points, and even in three polls. one point, two points, and even. and i think we have a much greater -- a tremendous enthusiasm, much greater enthusiasm than she has. >> well, yesterday, trump's campaign manager, kellyanne conway, acknowledged that they were the underdogs. let's watch her. >> where do you see this race right now? do you acknowledge that you're behind? >> we are behind. she has some advantages, like $66 million ad buys just in the month of september. we were behind one, three, four points in some of these swing states that mitt romney lost to president obama. our advantage that donald trump is going to continue to take the case directly to the people. >> meanwhile, karl rove, who spent election night 2012, arguing with the fox news decision desk over the results is throwing in the towel for his party's candidate. let's watch him. >> if he plays an inside straight, he can get edit, but i doubt he'll going to be able to play it. he has 186 electoral votes in states that he either leads outside of the margin of error, or is thought comfortably put away. that compares to romney's 206. he would have to not only win two states where he is either only slightly ahead or behind by four, but he would have to pick up states where he is behind by, at, or above the gnanational average. i don't see it happening. >> on the latest abc news tracking poll, clinton is 50-38. today trump called ate totally phony poll. a cnn opinion research poll just out today shows a closer race, with clinton leading by just five points, 49-44. i'm joined right now by "the new york times" jamiel alcindor and democratic strategist, tad devine is back. good to have him back. let's go to yamiche in this order. what is the strategy of trump saying he's not behind? because the other day he was saying the election is fixed and he can't possibly win. i thought one was to encourage his voters. i'm not even sure, what is his strategy? saying he's going to win and the polls are wrong, or saying he's going to get screwed and the polls are right? what's his strategy here, yamic yamiche? >> we're seeing two things happening here. donald trump is in one way trying to tell people that he's realizing he's behind and he wants to rile up his base and tell people, hey, there's still time, we need to get this together. but there's also this other part of donald trump, where he really is in denial in some ways. he sees these polls, the same polls that he would be talking about if he was winning and says now they're rigged. and it goes to this idea that the election is rigged and wants his supporters to feel like, if i lose, it's not because of anything that i did, but it's really because of the media and the people who are rigging this election. >> yeah, hugh, he's really trying to be scientific about her. he's saying, let me tell you how they rig it. they give more weighting to the democrats, when they're polled, than they give to the potential republican voters. he's really getting into the science of polling, and showing how it's been, according to him, rigged, at the same time, well, i'm not sure at the same time it is. except, it's rigged. the polls are rigged, the elections are going to be rigged. is that the theme to get his people out? >> i think it's the theme to get his people out. but i think it's part of him being angry at the system. yes, he wants to get his voters out. and they are enthusiastic. i think i would -- >> i would say. >> that he's -- his supporters are very enthusiastic. so there's a little bit of that going on. but i think some of this is the fact that he is -- he's really kind of departing from the message of his campaign. kellyanne conway is really trying to tweet out and do interviews where she says, i understand we're behind. she wants people to understand that they're serious, that they're presidential candidates, that they understand what the numbers are saying to them, but donald trump is really doing what he wants to do in this case. >> hugh, can you understand his strategy? his public strategy? >> no, not really. i think it's important for him to focus on the obamacare meltdown, focus on issues and leave the pollsters to their polling. if you want to point to anything, point to tom cotton winning by 72% two years ago in arkansas and mitch mcconnell winning by 15%, neither of which were predicted anything close to that kind of a landslide. but you don't unskew polls. it's a bad move. i've fallen into that trap myself. i've learned, trust the real clear politics average and campaign on the issues. >> i hate to take you down a rabbit hole you don't want to go down, but why the mcconnell raise underpolled? >> i do think that state polls is much more difficult than national polling. i've tried to figure it out with people like sean trendy at real clear politics. the bigger your sample, the easier it is to model a turnout. i think cotton won by 17 points. the last poll showed him winning by 8 to 10, but about three weeks out, they thought that prior cotton race was a dead heat and cotton wins by 17 points. it does give you pause when you come to some polls. >> let me go to tad, who's a political strategist, not a pollster. i don't understand, when you have two weeks to go in the polls, why doesn't trump say the following. if you like the way things are going, vote for the usual candidate, hillary clinton. if you like the way we're losing jobs in the manufacturing part of this country, vote for what we have. if you like the way we have uncontrolled immigration, vote for that. if you like these stupid wars, vote for that. vote yes for hillary. why doesn't he set it up as a zero-sum game, if you vote for hillary clinton, you're voting for the way things are, and set it up smartly instead of arguing about polling? your thoughts? >> because he's not a disciplined candidate and doesn't really care about the mechanics of campaigns, because he doesn't stick to a message. you know, this is a guy who will say whatever he wants to say if he thinks it serves his purposes at that momentum. it's a twitter kind of form of communication. so, you know, i think he's trying to offer reassurance to his supporters that he's not out of it. but the truth is, he's fallen far behind and there's very few, if any, paths for him to win the election. >> what you think do you think's happened to him? is it the tape from 2005? what is it that broke his chance? >> i think combination of number one, the debates, where hillary clinton performed like a president. she demonstrated presidential capacity, dealt with him very effectively. number two, i think that tape that was released of hmm on the bus confirmed all the suspicions that people had about him, particularly with women. that's why he's trailing. he's 20 points down in the abc poll with women right now. i think it's a impincombination those events. >> trump went after the media again, saying he was looking out for working americans. i wish he would say, to do it the right way. let's watch. >> the media isn't just against me. they're against all of you. that's really what they're against. thar not against me, they're against what we represent. the media is entitled, condesce condescending, and even contemptuous of the people who don't share their elitist views. and this is all for money. this is for money, largely, must be and power. i see you and i hear you. i am your voice. >> let me go to hugh on that? what do you make of that argument that he represents the regular folks out there and the media represents the elite. and why would the media, except a lot of us media are ivy leaguers and they are the intellectual elite, although i don't think that's what i brag about, but they are, some of them, why is the media pro-el e pro-elite, according to him. give me the motivation, you're on that side of thinking and i want to hear the smart way of saying it. >> thank you. to quote kissinger, it has the additional benefit of being true. 90% plus of manhattan beltway media elites will vote for hillary clinton and will applaud her election. it seeps into coverage. those elites look for news in places other than the obamacare premium hikes or the problems with the fbi. these are stories where if trump were making a comprehensive case, it goes back to nixon and agnes, it's an old saw and a true saw in the republican cannon that you don't get a fair shake, but you've got to deal with it by focusing on the issues and not on the problem to have bias. >> i look at joe biden, he's not an elite. i look at bobby casey of pennsylvania, he's not elite. name me the elite in the media? give me the names. >> this is the thing. if we ask people, like donald trump, or ask people like bernie sanders, they were both going after some of the same people. they were talking about "the new york times." they were talking about "the washington post." and really, this is something that i think is kind of an effective argument, because people really do feel like when they go and get the news that they're really getting it from these people who have some sort of plan to rig this election or rig the economy or don't want to cover the real issues. when with, you know, obviously, the media is in some ways covering the news of the day and covering things that we think are important, but there are people making value judgments. i should add, i talked to -- >> do you know anybody, yamiche, at "the new york times" that's pro-life. >> i don't know -- >> you don't have to name names? >> i have not asked my coworkers that question, wii should say. >> that's cute. that's the way you make your point. go ahead, yamiche. >> i really wanted -- this idea of -- i was talking to a trump supporter today and he said that he felt that donald trump was what he called a bad lulue coll billionaire. but people are really believing that he's a voice for them. and that's something that's really powerful and that could be an issue that he could continue to talk about if he wasn't talking about suing his sexual assault accusers. >> i think people -- i want to go back to hugh. let me go back to tad on that. i think people look at trump as a sinatra kind of guy. yeah, he has a lot of money, but acts like a little guy who got to be a big guy. he doesn't look like he was born to it. he doesn't look like that. your thoughts? >> i think he doesn't sound like that. the language that he uses. but, you know, listen, that clip you just played of trump, he was taking it directly off the teleprompter. it was very effective. trump's problem is he stops going off the teleprompter. goes to gettysburg to make this big address and says he's going to sue the women who are making charges against him and that's the news. it's ridiculous. it's stupid and selfish and a big reason he's going to lose. >> over the weekend, hillary clinton said she won't respond to trump anymore. that's smart. however, today on the trail, she had strong words for him, taking him to task on what he tweeted about the invasion of mosul. this is getting interesting. let's watch. >> just last night he tweeted that the new effort underway to push the terrorist out of the key city of mosul is already, and i quote, a total disaster. he's basically declaring defeat before the battle has even started. he's proving to the world what it means to have an unqualified commander in chief. >> anyway, clinton was joined at the rally by senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, who attacked trump for labeling clinton a nasty woman at last week's debate. by the way, senator warren knows exactly how to fight with trump. let's watch her here again. >> he thinks that because he has money, he can call women "fat pigs" and "bimbos." he thinks the that because he has a mouth full of tic tacs, that he can force himself on any woman within groping distance. well, i got news for you, donald trump! women have had it with guys like you! and nasty women have really had it with guys like you! get this, donald, nasty women are tough. nasty women are smart. and nasty women vote. >> i have to go to -- i have to go to tad, because you've had to deal with clients. how do you find somebody so perfectly designed as elizabeth warren to go after trump? she has no fear of him. she's unassailable at home, she can't be defeated. she seems to have a way of getting beyond tough. he's tough on hillary and tough on everybody. she's tougher than him. >> listen, she's connecting. that's what it's all about in politics. bernie sanders connected with voters. that's why he had the campaign he had in the primary process. elizabeth warren connects. she uses plain language, goes right at it, pushing back on a bully. and i think she's just killing him out there. and this is one of hillary's great advantages. it's not just hillary that's fighting this fight. the obamas, they're incredible, the vice president, bernie's been great, elizabeth warren today, this is a murderous row of surrogates that's being thrown at trump right now and he's paying the price for it. >> you're talking about the yankees of old, the 20s. the murderous row. thank you, yamiche alcindor of "the new york times," hugh hewitt of salem and tad divine of the democratic party. democrats are pushing hard to win control of the u.s. senate. they have a good shot. one of the states they hope to flip from red to blue is pennsylvania. looks like they have a good shot, but it's going to be close. hillary clinton was there this weekend blasting pat toomey for supporting donald trump. he's not actually supporting donald trump. it's very hard to figure out what he is regarding trump. he's playing it very cute. we'll take a closer look at the keystone state in a minute. plus, with all trump's talk of a rigged election, here's a real-world concern come election day. the justice department will be sharply restricted in how it monitors voting sites this time. we'll have far fewer election watchdogs this year since any time since the days of poll taxes and literacy texts. and barack obama's flying high with an approval rating in the mid- to high 50s. now he's using his popularity not just to help hillary clinton, but to punish republicans up and down the ballot for supporting donald trump. i love the way he's going after darryl issa of california. he wants to put the nails in that guy's political coffin. finally, my election diary for tonight, november 24th, with just 15 days, two weeks and a day, can you believe it? two weeks and a day we'll have this election. this is "hardball," the place for politics. if you're apoaching 65... now's the time to get your duc in a row. [quack medire ocors about 80% of youpart b medical expenses. the rests upo you. so aboutn rp medicare supplement insuran plan, insured unitedheahcareinsuranc. ke a standdid medicasupplemensc, eyelver some of at medicare doeay. soso wait. the great comedian bill murray has been awarded the mark twain prize for american humor. murray, whose 40-year film career includes roles in classics like gho"ghostbusters"d "caddieshack" was honored last night. and after the event, murray, who grew up in chicago paid tribute to his beloved world series-bound chicago cubs. >> it's exciting. you know, if you don't know what it's like to wait your whole life for the team you root for to win, you can't explain it. >> where'll be right back. by the way, saw bill murray at the airport recently. he's a nice guy. back in a minute. ...allstate. with accident forgiveness theyuarantee your rates won go up just becse of an accident. smart kid. ined. it's good to be in, good hands. you know whaha guys? tre's a l of tree branches and dry brush over here. we shld probably mo the bonfire over there. [smokey whistlingng te] i'm guessing smokey led tt idea. welcome back to "hardball." one contest that could decide control over the election is the race for senate in pennsylvania. in the real clear politics average, incumbent republican senator, pat toomey, holds a two-point lead over his democratic challenger, katie mcginty. pennsylvania has trended democratic in recent elections, but one thing toomey has going for him in history, pennsylvania voters have split their tickets three times since 1992, when the state re-elected senator arlen specter back then and voted in presidential candidate bill clinton. they did it again in 2000, when they re-elected rick santorum to the senate, but also supported democrat al gore for president. again in 2004, re-elected spector by throwing their votes to democrat john kerry for president. but things have changed. in 2000, democrats held only a 5 500,000-voter advantage in registration. toomey has to contend with the coattails of hillary clinton, who leads in the state by an average of six points. and with the challenges facing his party's nominee, donald trump. over the weekend, clinton took on the incumbent senator, directly. >> send katie mcginty on behalf of pennsylvania to the united states senate! she's running against someone who refuses to stand up to donald trump. how much does he have to hear or to see. >> and in our first debate on television, toomey has yet to say who he will vote for, whether he'll vote for trump or not, was repeatedly pressed by the moderator on that point, and mcginty, to disclose his choice. let's watch. >> as a leader in your party, yes or no, do you support, as in, will you vote for and encourage rohrs others to vote for your party's presidential nominee? >> and because katie is so extremely partisan, she can't grasp the idea that someone might have trouble with a candidate in their own party. but i do. on the other hand, i know if he were president, he would probably sign legislation that, um, would be constructive. >> i'll tell you, waiting to be persuaded is political speak for waiting for the next poll. but, again, the senator is the only person in the united states of america who has not leveled with his constituents on this simple question. are you voting for donald trump? i'll yield the balance of my time back to the senator so that he can now answer that question. >> we're going to move on. but senator, one last go at this. will you disclose to your constituents and to other voters -- >> you know -- >> -- how you're going to vote? >> you know, at some point, i probably will. >> that moderator sounds like me. a few days later, toomey acknowledged northea ed he's in spot. >> i'm still in the same mode i was monday night, which is feeling stuck. >> feeling stuck. politicians don't usually say that. anyway, guy cecil is a democratic strategist and head of the pro-clinton super pac, priorities usa. ryan williams is a republican strategist. so, ryan, give us an yt of what -- we know what the predicament is. there's two kinds of voters that could vote for toomey. those who are for trump and republicans who are not for trump. that's two groups of voters. you knock one group, the other may not like you and reverse the same thing. it's hard to keep both of those republican groups happy. >> well, politically, it's a tough spot. there's no question about that. and i think for someone like pat toomey who's been a good senator and focused on policy, he's torn between hillary clinton, who he hates, doesn't think she would be a good president, and trump, who he also doesn't like. he's been very up-front about his opposition to trump's outrageous statements and his policies he disagrees with. so he's in a tough spot, but thankfully pat toomey has a good record in the senate. a party of bipartisan achievement. and i think that's why he's leading in the polls, despite the distractions the top of the ticket is throwing at him. >> last question. do pennsylvania voters, do they still believe there's such a thing as an east coast republican? a hugh scott republican, a scranton republican, a jack heinz republican. do they really think there are republicans that are not right-wingers, that they would feel comfortable voting for, especially in the 'burbs? >> i think so. i think that's pat toomey, rated one of the most bipartisan senators in the united states senate, someone who worked with senator joe manchin of west virginia on a common sense solution to background checks. someone who has worked to keep child sex predators out of school. he's worked to clear up the backlog at the v.a. he's someone who has a record of achievement. and that's why he's leading right now, in a challenging year overall for republicans. >> well, guy, democrats have told me, pennsylvania democrats at the very top level have told me that toomey's been very shrewd for coming out for background checks along with joe manchin, that he's done just enough to look like a moderate on guns, at the same time, not to offend the nra, and therefore can win in the 'burbs. what do you think? >> well, i actually they you ill stra straited it perfectly, he's trying to have it both ways. they've done a good job pushing back on that narrative, about being a friend and a reliable vote for the nra -- >> how is he different from casey, the democratic senator from pennsylvania on guns? >> on guns? >> yeah. how's he different? >> i think there's a couple of things. when he look at assault weapons, there's still differences there in terms of him disclosing what he believes. he also says according to the nra that he opposes certain supreme court justices in part because of their view of the second amendment. and he also supports donald trump. and that, wii think, is the hea of the -- >> but on the issue of guns, to delineate, he's different than the popular democratic senator on guns? you're saying that? >> on background checks -- >> i think they're both for background checks? >> right. but on assault weapons bans, on their vote for the supreme court justice, based on the second amendment, which, by the way, the narra scores, which is why most get an f with the nra. >> your group, the pro-clinton super pac is getting into this pennsylvania fight and running this television ad against toomey. let's watch that. >> pat toomey and donald trump. they're just wrong for the women of pennsylvania. >> new fallout for donald trump. >> should a woman be punished for having an abortion? >> there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> i would support legaislation in pennsylvania that would ban abortion and i would suggest we have penalties for doctors who perform them. >> pat toomey and donald trump, they're not for you. >> is that a fair ad, ryan? >> no, i don't think so. look, you obviously were there, you asked the question of donald trump. it was about penalizing women for abortions. that's not pat toomey's position and never has been. they're conflating two things. and i think they're trying to tie in with trump, a strategy democrats are using across the country. he's a good senator and katie mcginty is not a good candidate for the democrats. she's very wooden, she's not very likable, she gave a terrible speech at the dnc, that was widely panned -- i think one reporter said it was like an "snl" sketch of someone trying to impersonate a politician, it was so bad. she's not a great candidate, she's weak, she's nothing but really standard democratic talking points. pat toomey has a record of accomplishment and it's what he's running on. >> guy, are you running across the state or in the philadelphia market? >> we're running in the philadelphia market. >> why aren't you running it across the state, which is nor pro-life? >> in part because we're still running ads in the rest of the state, specifically focused for trump for hillary's election, which is the primary function in the election. >> but why are you just running it in philadelphia, where you know that people are more pro-choice. is that fair statewide to suggest that you're just going to go out and basically pick up the pro-choice votes around the philadelphia suburbs, but not advertise to the rest of the state, which is much more culturally conservative, your candidate's position on voting rights? >> well, we think where we're still advertising for donald trump, there are still votes to gain for hillary. so we're focused on donald trump in those particular markets. and in the philly suburbs, we think we're pretty close to maxing out hillary's vote in that respect. >> would you run that ad we just saw up in scranton if it were run for free? if someone paid you to run it, would you run it? >> an ad that says -- >> no, that ad. >> yeah, an ad that says -- >> no -- >> i'm answering your question, if you'll give me one second. would i run an ad in scranton that says that donald trump believes women should be put in jail if they had an abortion? yes. would i run an ad that says pat toomey should be put in jail if they had an abortion? yes. and the number one complaint republicans have about katie mcginty, is that she's not likable, which is what they say about any strong women running for office these days. she's going to win the election. >> now i've got to give ryan a response. your thoughts about that? is likability a factor here? >> she's not been a strong candidate. she's someone who got caught lying about being the first member of her family to go to college. she's someone who's been part of this revolving door culture in goth, where she was in government, and steered money to corporations and then left and worked for those corporations. people don't like that. they don't like people using the system for they own gain like hillary clinton and like katie mcginty in pennsylvania. it's not what people want these year. >> thank you, both. up next, this year, for the first time since the 1960s, the justice department will be sharply limited in sending its watchdogs to polling places to protect people's right to vote. that's a big concern, especially considering donald trump is calling his supporters to monitor what he's calling a rigged election. that's ahead and this is "hardball," the place for politics. i work 'round thclock. i wa my blood sugar stay in control so askedut tresiba®. ♪resiba® ready ♪ triba® is a once-daily, long-acting inlin that lasts even longer an 24 hours. i nt to tr my a1♪ tresiba® ready ♪ tresiba® provides powerful a1c reductio releases slow and steady. works likeour body's insulin. when my schedule changes... i wa something that delivivs. ♪ tresi®eady i can take tresiba® so if i miss or delay a se, i ke it when i remember, long the's at least 8 hourbeeen dos. once in use, it lasts 8 weeks without refrigeration... twice as long as lantus®, which lasts 4 week triba® is used to in adults with diabetes. n't use tresiba®o treat etic ketoacidosis, duri episodes of l blo, or if youn't shareic to any needles or iin pens. don'use needles. the most common side effect is low blood sugar, which may use dizziness, sweatin check ur bod sugar.. low blood sugagacan be sious . injection site actions may occur. tell your doctorbout a medicines you take and all your medical contions. taking tzdwith insulins, li tresiba®, may cae serious side eects like heart failu. your insulinose shouldn't be changed thout king your doctor. t medical help right away if you havtrouble breathing... fast heartat, treme siness, swelling of your face, ngue, or throat, dizziness, or confusion. ask ur doctor if y're triba® ready. ♪ tresiba ready you're at th top of yougame.. at work or at play, u're unstopple nooh hey, thnice going man.ck. things are going great r you. you'vearned night out. good drinks, goigo fends. you. yeah, we can go ahead ancallhis good night. wa, is that your car? uh oh. yeah, i saw that coming. say odbye toer. ouch! that will hurt yo bank account. you're lookingt around ten grand in fines, legal fees, and increased insurance rates. hope you like eating frozen dinners. alone. t's try this again. smart move. because buzziving is d. i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. highway california patrol says a tour bus may have not braked before crashing into a big rig killing 13 people near palm springs. pennsylvania's former attorney general, kathleen kaine, was sentenced today to 10 to 23 months in jail. she was convicted of disclosing details from a grand jury investigation and lying about it. the white house says it's up to regulators to decide whether to review at&t's plan to buy time warner. critics say the $85 billion deal could lead to fewer choices for semest consumers. back to "hardball." they even want to try to rig the election at the polling booths, where so many cities are corrupt. and you see that. and voter fraud is all too common. if nothing else, people are going to be watching on november 8 president watch philadelphia. watch st. louis. watch chicago. go around and look and watch other polling places and make sure that it's 100% fine. >> welcome back to "hardball." for months now, donald trump has called on his supporters to watching polling elections for what he alleges should be widespread voter fraud in the big cities. now civil rights advocates say they're worried that voter intimidation spurred by trump's claims the election is rigged could be on the rise this november. this comes in the wake of the 2013 supreme court ruling that cut portions of the 1965 voting rights act, which were aimed at preventing discrimination at the ballot box. "the new york times" notes, for the first time since the days of poll taxes and lurtsy tests, a half century ago, they'll be deterred in how they can observe polls. talt, trump is stoking fears of a rigged election, but he said actually on saturday that voter fraud could actually help him if fraudulent ballots are cast for him. >> there are 2.8 million people that are registered in more than one state. so we'll vote here, let's ride down the road and vote next door. maybe they'll vote for trump. i don't know. maybe i shouldn't be saying this. i may be hurting myself. you're right. you're right. maybe they're going to vote for trump. all right. let's forget that. it's okay for them to do it. >> well, with i'm joined right now by judith brown dianis of the advancement project a. trump is basically say, keep an eye out for the big urban cities with large seniority populations and if you're from somewhere else, basically, get in your car on election day, as a private citizen, drive into some neighborhood where you think there might be, might be voting cheating of some kind, impersonation, whatever, and blow the whistle on it. is that feasible? can we imagine that actually happening? and if so, what would be the impact? if, say, somebody from a suburb goes into a black community, a minority community and starts blowing the whistle. because in philadelphia, there were 59 voting divisions where you didn't get a single vote for mitt romney and i believe it's because nobody voted for mitt romney, but they may have different suspicions. your thoughts? >> first, let's be clear about this, chris. there's clearly racism behind this. from, first of all, saying that there's the bogeyman of voter fraud. and by the way, my supporters, that bogeyman are -- those are black and latino people in the inner cities. and then dispatching people and telling supporters to go to those areas and watch what they are doing, first, we should know that intimidation is against the law, under the voting rights act. so getting in the way of anyone exercising that right to vote is illegal. two, is that, in most places, in most stayses, there's actually laws about who can go into the polling places. and it's exactly why the department of justice is not going to have observers inside -- >> let's talk about the trump people. i want to focus on trump, relevant to the universe we live in, some guy or woman comes in from the 'burbs, for example, a republican comes in or a pro-trumpy comes in and shows up in an inner city voting area. they walk up, got their head over the shoulder, looking at the voting list, stick their face into it, and they say, that's not mary mcgee. that's not her, that's not that person. now, is that what they're talking about, stopping -- i'm just trying to figure out, physically, what do trump people -- what's trump talking about? >> what he's really talking about is intimidating them. just my showing up -- >> do you think that would intimidate somebody in a downtown district where people all know each other, know the community, use the term community, knows who's in it and who isn't in it, and someone who shows up who's not in the community and starts giving orders. do you think that would intimidate anybody? i think that person would be shouted down, probably. >> i think they would be shouted down and i don't think they'll actually be able to challenge a voter. but what i do think it is, you know, is that you have some of his supporters who say, we're going to racially profile people. make them a little nervous. >> how do you do that? >> well, i mean, i think it's by some people who are going to show up and hope that they can intimidate people, just by their very, their very existence, at a polling place. i actually don't think that voters are going to be intimidated. people want to cast a ballot. i think that these folks are going to be shut down at the polling place and that there will be observers who will be there to challenge those challengers. >> but here's what they can do. >> go ahead, heather. >> here's what they can do, they can slow things down. we saw this -- >> tell me how that works. >> -- a few years ago in pennsylvania. because the laws about whether or not a non-official, non-registered person can go up to someone in line and say, challenge their validity. and then have the onus be on the voter to provide i.d., to provide an affidavit from someone in the community who knows them, it's really actually a patchwork of laws, as is the case across our country, and in some places like pennsylvania, the laws are really, really weak. and so what you can get there is that people -- and this is not new to donald trump. there's an organization called true the vote that did this in 2012. and have been trained sort of vigilante poll watchers. and what it can do is slow it down, so that you have those lines, because what they're doing is making someone then prove more than they would have had to do otherwise. and that's part of the problem. >> but in states like pennsylvania, you have to -- first of all, you have to register to be an observer, to go into the polling place. and you have to either be with a party or be with a candidate. so it's not going to be as easy as he's making it out to be to go into a polling place and challenge voters. and in most places, you also have to have some evidence. >> we have to tell everybody voting, if you're an honest voter, and you are, vote. don't let anybody get in the way. but i don't think these vigilantes from the 'burbs are going to be any problem to anybody who wants to vote in their community. i just really believe those people will be tough enough, they've fought for enough of their lives and their parents have, to get the vote. they're not going to let somebody come in and say, excuse me, and get in their face. i don't think so. your thoughts? you're the experts? >> i was just going say, the real problem here is that this is not just an outlier candidate like donald trump who has gone beyond the bounds of so many of our norms. but this is actually a pattern of voter intimidation and suppression that takes a lot of different forms. demos just won a lawsuit where we sued the state of ohio for kicked registered eligible voters off the voter rolls, because they hadn't voted recently. so these are the kinds of things. obviously, we know about the north carolina law that won triumphantly, saying that legislators there had gone with surgical precision to find out what types of voting laws african-american used and tried to cut those out. >> i remember. >> this is everyone. >> and this is part of an ethos that says, we're not all equal citizens. >> and we're going to keep reporting on that, because souls to the polls is a legitimate way to vote, it's a nice way to vote, it's godly. let's keep it up. in any way, judith brown dianis and heather mcgee, thank you. up next, if you want to know how much this election matters to president obama, look at his campaign schedule coming up. it's unprecedented for a retiring president. he's out there not just pushing hillary, but democrats up and down the ballot. he's blasting away at the republican opponents personally. and that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. we danced in a gman dance group.ore lederhosen. when i first got on ancestry i was really surised that i wasn't finding all of ese germans iny tr. i thg rprise was testwe're t german at all. 52of my a comes om scotla and irelandnd , i traded in my testwlederhosenor a kilil. ancestry has many paths to discoveng yr sty. get stted for free at ancesy.com. , i traded in my testwlederhosenor a kilil. g new cars.ry has many paths to discoveng yr sty. you're smart. you already ew tha but it'syou'll see whatng the perfa fair price is, and you caconnecth a now yore even smarter.. thiss truecar. but the best place to aris ithforest.ykubo: spy s" beetle: ow. : bele: snocovered trs. nkey: nothing to dwith snow. rrator: head outside dioverncredie and beautiful plants come togetherttoreatan unf. kubo: wow! annarrator: sorab yo led s come togetherttoreatan unf. monkey: don't ev. narratorand plore world of s come on, thi naator: vi discerefesorg narratorand plore world of s coto find e closest fixode plus sive there'denture adhesi that ldstrongntil evening. justne application gives you suri hold even fident. strong more li natural teeth. business s by making every dollar count.owg that'shy i have the spk cash rd from capital e. with it, i eunlid 2% ca back all of my rchang.he spk cash rd from capital e. and that uited 2% cashack from srkeans thoundof dlars eh year my btom ne.tmy busess.which add welcome back to "hardball." with nearly two weeks to go, actually, two weeks and a day left in the presidential campaign, democrats are setting their sights on a lot more than the presidency with a sizable war chest now, and a comfortable advantage in the polls, secretary clinton's boosting her party's down-ballot candidates. let's watch it. >> and maggie is going to be a great united states senator for new hampshire. i want to thank governor ted strickland. our candidate for the united states senate. send debora ross to the united states senate! >> well, "the new york times" reporting that hillary clinton is, quote, asking voters to strengthen her hand in congress and repudiate not just mr. trump, but also republicans who have accommodated or endorsed trump. and she's enlisted a bevy of surrogates from vice president joe biden, who will be on "hardball" tomorrow. let's watch >> what frustrates me about this election, and i couldn't quite figure it out, as i was on my way up to campaign in new hampshire, day before yesterday for hillary, and i realized it. trump has so dumbed down this election -- no, he really has! think about it! that the press, they're decent people, all these folks out there, what are you going to cover? >> and then there's the president, according to politico, he will back nearly 150 candidates across 20 states in an attempt to rebuild the party from the bottom up. that would be the democratic party. for more, i'm joined by our roundtable. jay newton small, contributor with the "time" magazine, and ken vogel, chief investigative reporter with politico. from the top. take over here, guys, this has a roundtable. i want you to explain to me kind of campaigning in plain sight. hillary clinton's not doing a lot of hard-nosed interviews. and she's campaigns for other candidates than herself. i think it's a strategy to get the focus off her in the last two weeks and keep it on trump. tim? >> yeah, i think that's right. look, if you're hillary clinton right now, you're up six points on average in pennsylvania. you're up eight points in new hampshire. you look around and there's not a down-ballot race in colorado. but in those other three straits, for instance, at this point, why not help the down-ballot candidates. why not try to strengthen your hand when you're naughted next january. it has a dual effect of not only helping your down-ballot candidates, but it is a prevent defense strategy. it's sort of a place it safe, let's not do anything to possibly hand ammunition to the trump campaign less than two weeks out, at this point, or 15 days out at this point. it just makes sense from a tactical standpoint, makes sense from a money standpoint. democrats are now sort of starting to spread the wealth around down-ballot, as we've seen over the last week or two. >> and chris, if i can add to that,pseudos show that women are always more popular, when they're already in office or when they're campaigning for somebody else or working for somebody else. and so in this case, hillary clinton is generally more popular when she's out there doing something for somebody else than when she's actually talking about herself. and so, i think this is actually just a play to sort of keep her head down, keep her head in the sand, let everything happen with donald trump like go past her and really just focus on helping others on the ticket, and getting them across the finish line as well, but it also helps her, too. >> ken? >> yeah, and i think there's also -- it's not just that she's hiding in plain sight. i mean, her schedule is actually relatively sparse for the final two-week stretch of election. she did two events saturday, but they're not expecting like a very vigorous schedule down the stretch. and i think part of that is, they are legitimately concerned that if she gets out there and doze a lot of events, there is the potential for an unforced error. people around her believe that if she's keeping a really intense schedule, she gets a little tired, as anyone would, and that the chances for that go up, everything is going so well for her right now, they're trying to look for that sort of path of least resistance -- >> over the weekend -- >> -- and give momentum to the candidates down-ballot. >> there's one guy swinging pretty loosely. out west, president obama blasted congressman darryl issa and called him shameless. during a closed-door event, president obama accused issa of being someone who, quote, spent all his time simply trying to obstruct, to feed the same sentiments that resulted in donald trump becoming their nominee, closed quote. the commander in chief -- campaigner in chief, has had a few words for a number of republican candidates. let's watch him in action. >> now, i understand joe heck now wishes he never said those things about donald trump, but they're on tape. they're on the record. and now that trump's poll numbers are cratering, suddenly, he says, oh, i -- now, i don't -- i don't -- i'm not supporting supporting him. too late. why does marco rubio still plan to vote for donald trump? there has to be a point where you stand for something more than just party or more for than just your own career. >> he's going to be a little careful. he is flying high out there. anyway, this is hardball, the place for politics. thank you. wa, i become a mel?! no. whose cellphe is t sorry.orry. soy abt that ventblowing y. art thha, in nailstblowing y. challee to and noce a diffee or ur money b nature's bounty. ...stop icng around... siteto fina be price. thlowest prices on our hotel are yst hilton.c. soay land get mored... sitetolyhilt.com.ice. a big reminder, tomorrow i sit down with vice president joe biden out here in pittsburgh. on friday, he said he'd like to take donald trump behind the high school gym. vintage biden. you don't want to miss him tomorrow in our interview. we're going to talk about that boxing thing with him. and we'll be right back. listen to . i am ctain of the track team, and if i'm le... she doesreally think she's going toet outof here, d ? be nice. she's new. hello! is anyo there? 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[squishing sound] wow, get like, no bars in this place. i wonder if they have-fi he. we're back with the "hardball" round table. tim, tell me something we don't know. >> chris, with hillary clinton wanting to pursue immigration, keep in mind, in arizona, 200,000 new hispanic voters since 2010. if trump is at that number or even lower, that state goes blue in a couple of weeks. >> wow. what a prediction. jay? >> in the race in louisiana, david vitter in his senate seat, you have david duke, a former white supremacist and he actually just qualified for a debate in that state and it's going to be held at an historically black college which will make for a very interesting debate. >> geez. that's strange. ken? >> campaign officials tell me they have not asked to review nor have they actually reviewed the john podesta personal e-mails from his e-mail account. wikileaks has tens and thousands that they have jet to release so there could be some surprises in there for the voters and media and clinton campaign. you have to wonder, they have total confidence in john podesta and his discretion or that's almost like medical malpractice. back after this. ♪ if youave mode toeverplaque priasis isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla (apremilast). otez inot an injection a cream. it's a pill that tres plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75clearer skin is achievable after ju months, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness plaques. withand the otezlass, prescring information has no ruirentor routinlab nitoring. don't take otezla if you are agic has no ruirentor tony of its grnts. routinlab nitoring. don't take otezla otezla increee risk odep. if you are agic tell your doctor if you have a storof deprsi or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported wght loss. ur doctoshould motor yo weight and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrh, nausea, upper respiratory tract inction, ll your doctor about all the medicines you ta, an you're pregnant or planni to be. ask ur dermatologt abt otezlaoday. otezla. show more . why don't you let me... and me... lp you out? ♪ you're gonna he what i say... ♪ i love taking stufapart and building new things out of it. ne: s my most adedannedroid. [gas] this is awesome. ♪ oh anne: you haven seen anything yet. announcer: give yr caboarbox another life. you n't let anyt keep you sidelined. th'shy yo. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for thstrength and energy to get back to doing... ...what you love. ensure. ways be you. election diary monday, october 24th, 2016. something's changed. this campaign feels very dinner than it did a week or two ago. now there's this feeling between donald trump and hillary clinton is over. hillary's going to win. well, the former secretary of state be joined in the morning headlines with a senate takeover as well? will there be a big number on the front page saying how many seats the democrats gained and the republicans lost. the perpetual investigation and probe of democrats. you see it in the president's big push for senate candidates wherever he goes. he wants a whopper. and then there's baghdad bob, saying none of this is true. he was the guy broadcasting from the iraqi capital. today, the die-hard voice coming from the presidential campaign is that of the candidates himself. baghdad bob, meet donald trump. and that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris heys starts right now". tonight on "all in". >> nasty women are smart and nasty women vote. >> as early voting begins today in several key states, a full-court press by democrats. >> what frustrates me about this election, trump has so dumped-down this election. >> and will the white house take back congress? >> heck, no! heck, no!
county, she got 40,000 fewer votes than barack obama so one of the stories of this campaign is the intensity of the white working class voters, those forgotten voters who were insistent they were going to vote for donald trump who, by the way, tuned out the media, tuned out folks like us, didn't want to hear it. the other part of the story is, frankly, what an uninspiring campaign hillary clinton ran and what an uninspiring candidate she was. there are six million missing votes the democrats will have to figure out, how did she get six million fewer votes than barack obama? that's part of the story as well because we're focusing on this weird bizarre story of donald trump not really noticing that hillary clinton had failed to give voters any reason to vote for her and to a certain extent she was kind of the white noise and as the intensity picked up and robert costa saw this when he visited wisconsin how much the trump vote was motivated by the dislike of hillary clinton and the fact is that, you know, by the end of that campaign a lot of people were willing to hold their nose and vote for donald trump but she was not able to turn out her folks and, by the way, donald trump ran more than 70,000 votes behind senator ron johnson, think about that. so he did underperform the republican vote in wisconsin. >> charlie sykes out of wisconsin. nicolle, last word, where's your party right now? >> someone asked me the opposite question. what do the democrats do? this is connected because i think what the republicans have to figure out is whether they want to set him up to triangulate. do they want to sort of open their arms to him and try to share a common agenda or do they want to leave donald trump as a jump ball? he is the president-elect. if they want to get business done they have to sort of not wipe the slate on his past transgressions but at least move the conversation to a policy arena where there can be some consensus because i think donald trump correctly presumes he owes the republican establishment nothing and if he has an agenda that he can get done with democrats, such as remaking trade deals with say a bernie sanders as partner or -- you know, he has no allegiance to either side so donald trump is the jump ball. if he has priorities, he'd be perfectly willing to cross the political aisle and work with a democrat that's willing to work with him if the republicans start by saying no way, no how. >> to our panel, mark, robert, charlie everyone is spent, everyone's exhausted, thanks for staying up late with us, we truly appreciate it. we had a lot of splaining to do, as a great man once said. when we come back, the role of the american women in this election. what happened with women and what happened to women as a result of last night's election, the 11th hour continues. speed always wins. especially in my business. with slow internet from the phone company, you can't keep up. you're stuck, watching spinning wheels and progress bars until someone else scoops your story. switch to comcast business. with high-speed internet up to 10 gigabits per second. you wouldn't pick a slow race car. then why settle for slow internet? comcast business. built for speed. built for business. >> right now i'm scared. i really don't know what to think because i don't know when i'm going see my parents again. i just hope that donald trump, um, helps us citizens. >> diversity is what makes us, it's what we are. so i just feel like he's going to ruin that. >> we want things to be, you know, white male, rich guy nation and i feel really vulnerable. i'm not a white guy and i'm not rich. >> to wake up and see that bigotry and oppression and misogyny and racism has won in our state and nationwide was deeply upsetting and traumatizing to me. >> did someone say we were two nations? donald trump won this race without winning women and without winning minorities. let's talk about it, nicolle wallace remains here with us and i also want to bring back to our broadcast heather mcgee, president of demos action, a progressive advocacy group. heather, what happened last night. >> ever since lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act, no majority of white voters has voted for a democratic president. and that's something that a lot of folks in white liberal enclaves don't actually really sort of absorb as a fact. but this has been a 50-year beautifully executed southern strategy to link otherization of people who are not white with all of the economic problems in the country and, most importantly, with the sort of idea of big government. and in some ways, donald trump -- and it's usually been subtle, ronald reagan perfected the dog whistle talking about welfare queens, donald trump turned the dog whistle into a megaphone and he just came out and came down those stairs and said "mexicans are rapists and criminals." it really is shocking and i think for many of us who work in multiracial spaces and who do multiracial advocacy and organizing, this is a moment when a lot of white americans are saying this is a conversation we need to have amongst ourselves about how someone who was endorse bid the ku klux klan could have won the majority of white voters. >> and nicolle, this was the path that no one believed was possible because it would require exactly what heather is talking about. >> not only that it wasn't possible but why would it be desirable? >> or conceivable. >> why would you want to run a party and win without women and minorities? women make up 53% of those who vote in a presidential election. no model prior to trump's win had it feeszabasible to win wit shrinking numbers in any democrat graphic group, latinos and african-americans, and he did that. the conversation about race should be the first priority but the second or third should be a conversation about the cultural divisions and if there are walls up in our country they are sort of walls around the coastal elites and the way they think and what is really felt as a slur when we talk about flyover nation. we have serious cultural divisions, people know our national newscasts come from manhattan and they think what do you know about my life and that was, again, not putting it on par with how important this conversation is kbuz r because people are scared and afraid but there was also a conversation to be had and some understanding about how the republican party especially grew separated from its own voters. >> there's also the class conversation, heather. i found it interesting, j.d. vance has written this beautiful controversial book, he grew up in ohio, went to -- was deployed to iraq and the marine corps, ends up at yale law school. it's culled "hillbilly elegy." so the east coast media types who have no real connection to america there's some place west of the jersey turnpike, they were summoning j.d. vance to speak about this but it's the folks who keep our streets safe and fight our wars and fight our fires and a class, a socioeconomic class that has risen up in serious numbers here tonight. >> yes, that's true although i think we talked so much about the white working class and donald trump and white men that we need to look at the data from last night. white women voted for donald trump by 10 points. so it was not just -- so the gender gap that happened was because of women of color and i also want to say that i grew up in the midwest. i work with a woman who was also from middletown, ohio, where j.d. vance is from and she wrote a book about the working class that came out around the same time and her thesis is that there's a new working class in terms of who is making up the new working class, it's women, immigrants and people of color. >> very diverse. >> i think we have a lot of myths in this country. is he spun a lot of those myths but the people who keep our streets safe, the people who serve our communities well are also women and people of color and immigrant so the shared leadership of this country is what's contested right now. it was a symbolic vote for many people who cast that vote, one out of four trump voters, according to exit poll, didn't think he was qualified to be president. so maybe they didn't think he was going to be president, but they somehow got it into their heads that, you know, they could piss off the elite by insulting people even less powerful than them and saying sort of a pox on both of your houses and let's throw a bomb, but right now a lot of people in this country are very, very scared for their children and for their lives. >> that's going to have to pass as the sentiment we'll end this conversation on. thank you very much for coming in. nicolle, thank you. i happen to know how late you were at work. it was a long one. another break for us. we'll talk about how people are placing this in the long history of the united states and the history of our presidential elections when we continue. ♪ ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition. experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month. infiniti. empower the drive. 80% try to eat healthy, yet up to 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more. add one a day men's gummies. complete with key nutrients plus b vitamins to help convert food into fuel. one a day. announcer: they'll test you. try to break your will. but however loud the loudness gets. however many cheese puffs may fly. you're the driver. the one in control. stand firm. just wait. 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[vo] a confirmation will be sent when new personal oright. small business checking, savings or credit card accounts are opened. we're taking action and renewing our commitment to you. anyone ever have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas or bloating? she does. help defend against those digestive issues. take phillips' colon health probiotic caps daily... ...with three types of good bacteria. 400 likes? wow! phillips. be good to your gut. >> i know how disappointed you feel because i feel it, too. and so do tens of millions of americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. this is painful and it will be for a long time. but i want you to remember this -- our campaign was never about one person or even one electi election. it was about the country we love. >> someone pointed out hillary clinton wore the colors of mourning today but her remarks were very well received, as were the president's. to put this in perspective we call upon a wise man, as we always do, presidential historian and author michael beschloss actually here with us in new york and not in a box from washington. >> where we're knees and feet and everything else. >> that's exactly right. >> for all the people walking around today. there are republicans, but there are mostly democrats thinking what just happened, how did this happen, how are we going to go on? how does a learned man like you talk them through a moment like this in american politics? >> well, i think one way is i sure wouldn't predict it but, you know, some presidencies that began in a way that you expected to -- that you expected to unfold a certain way they look very different in history. ronald reagan, many of those who voted for jimmy carter were horrified, not, perhaps, in the same way they are with donald trump right now by the end of the 1980s, ronald reagan was the man who did an awful lot to end the cold war and do some other things that democrats did not expect. >> is there any other model for a man who came completely private sector, no political or civic experience prior? >> that's why we're having such a hard time, because one thing that both voters and historians all have to do, we're always looking at past record to give us an idea of how a person will behave in the future and with donald trump, you know, we don't know all that much about his business career. there's not a long record in congress or as a governor so this is much more uncharted territory and i think to some degree that's one reason why some of those people on the streets are nervous. >> i guess the last non-politician was eisenhower. and i was guessing last night that in realtime he was the last celebrity, though vastly different. he had won the titanic struggle overseas. donald trump is the first pure celebrity, really. >> i think that's right. and the other thing, you know, you and i have talked about this, too. eisenhower had been in the military but huge leadership experience as a general and also dealing with a lot of politicians, presidents, and in congress. the thing with trump is, is he going to pull off these grand plans while really having had almost no political experience? >> you have faith, i assume, in his running mate, governor pence, in the checks and balances, even in a country where suddenly we wake up and we have single-party rule. what did the framers say about single-party rule. >> well, james madison was nervous about that but he also helped to build in certain safeguards to make sure that things didn't go too much off the tracks. and i think trump was recognizing the fact that he had certain deficiency. that's why he put mike pence on that ticket. he knew he didn't have washington congressional experience. he knew he needed some link to at least the recent traditions, the republican party and for republicans who are nervous i think that should be somewhat calming. >> and you and i both know, or at least we think, tomorrow will go well because both men will make sure tomorrow's meeting goes well. >> i think both of us would make huge bets that tomorrow everyone is going to be saying amazing how well president obama and president-elect got along, almost seemed like best friends, how much the two first ladies got along in a way that 48 hours ago you never would have dreamt. >> we'll end on that. michael beschloss, what a thrill and honor it is to have you to be able to talk to our resident author and presidential historian, thank you so much. >> right back at you, brian, thank you for jg me. another break and when we come back, the changes afoot in the nation's largest city because it is suddenly home to the a couple of things here before we go on the 11th hour, or whatever hour this is where you are. this is seattle, just one of the cities where we've had protests tonight. we've had police choppers and tv news choppers up and aloft in the skies over so many cities this evening, again, mostly peaceful protests but a lot of these have come out of nowhere, thousands of people here in new york just appeared out of nowhere after a long march. there's portland. a lot of people in the bay area tonight. for a lot of people this election hasn't gotten real yet but on the web it sure is beginning to look real. the trump/pence ticket now has a web site. this is a.g dot-goff. it is greatagain.gov. there is the logo, president-elect donald j. trump. that's real. the nypd and secret service have a real task ahead of them as trump tower is right smack dab in the middle of mid-manhattan. that's tiffany's on the left and the police barricades were up for the whole campaign but now cement barricades are going up and trucks full of sand sitting outside to prevent attacks or terrorism. and there's this for the airspace over new york, a notice to airmen -- and they still call it airmen -- from the faa showing midtown manhattan, a flight restriction that expires 11:59, right before inauguration day when john f. kennedy gave a freaking terrifying speech to the country. it was in prime time tv. it lasted 17 minutes. and in that speech to the country, he basically warned the people of the united states that maybe we're about to have a nuclear war. >> our policy has been one of patience and restraint as befits a peaceful and powerful nation which leads a worldwide alliance. we have been determined not to be diverted from our central concerns by mere arrogance and fanatics, but now further action is required and it i
>> and with all due respect, sir, you are the distraction, and your conduct is the distraction. >>ly talk to senator mike lee of utah. and funll finally, all of it wi playing out on the debate stage during this most is surreal moment of the campaign. joining me for insight is steve schmidt senior adviser to john mccain. ruth marcus, column ist for the washington post. sara fagen, former adviser to george w. bush, and heather mcgee, from the think tank demos. welcome to "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sun a day morning, and this one does feel different, and there are so many times that we are have said that trump can't survive this or that crisis, but the 2005 hot mic recording of trump's recording with billy bush of "access hollywood" may be the october surprise that even donald trump can't survive. >> i moved on her actually. a ped you know, she was down at palm beach and i moved on her and i failed. i will admit it. she was married. >> and who? >> nancy, and no -- this is i moved on her very heavily and in fact, i took her out furniture shopping. she wanted to get some furniture and i told her where they have nice furniture and i moved on her like a [ bleep ] and i could not get there. and she was married. and now all of the sudden i see her and she has the big phony [ bleep ] and -- i have to put in some tic tacs unless i want to start kissing her. i am automaticallyt attracted and i just start kiss iing her. and when you a star, you can do anything. >> anything you want? >> grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> hello, mr. trump. nice to meet you. >> nice to see you. >> that is the words of the republican presidential nominee donald trump ended up releasing what he said was an apology late friday night and then yesterday he tweeted the following. i will never drop out of the race and i will never let my supporters down. and yesterday, trump's wife put out a statement calling his words offensive and went on, i hope that people will accept his apology as i have and focus on the important issues facing the nation and the world. let's understand something, trump was likely to lose and the question now is how much damage will it do to the are republican party, and already a parade of republicans says that they have condemned trump's comment and withdrawn the support completely or called on him to step down as the nominee altogether. and some are worried about their own prospects this fall, and others are disgusted with trump's words, and even the m e makers of tic tac candies which trump referenced in the tape said they found his comments to be unacceptable. >> the 2005 conversation with billy bush then of "access hollywood" has sent the republican party reeling. reince priebus, no woman should ever be described in these terms or manner ever. house speaker paul ryan kis dis-invited trump to a saturday event calling the comments sickening i sickeninging. >> there is a elephant in the room and it is troubling situation. >> and mitch mcconnell called on trump to apologize directly to women and girls everywhere. and republicans rushed to condemn the comments calling them offensive, inappropriate, outray jou outray jous, demeaning, indefensible and impossible to imply. >> i think that it is the thought that he can resurrect his campaign in this town hall is irreprehensible. >> i can no longer endorse donald trump for president. i can't do it. >> step aside. step down. >> i think that it is degrading to our women, to our daughters, our granddaughters and to future generations. >> and what it means for the republican candidates across the board is that they now have to run their own individual campaign campaigns without the traditional help are from the top of the ticket. >> and trump finally did apologize in a facebook video late friday night. >> i said it. i was wrong. i apologize. >> but trump didn't stop with the apology, and instead called the revelation a distraction and attacked the clintons. >> bill clinton has abused women, and hillary clinton has attacked, bullied and shamed his victims. >> on friday, pence defended trump. >> this time we got him. and look, another tweet that came out or this time another thing or another issue that has come forward and then they turn on the television the next morning and donald trump is still standing stronger than ever before. >> but by saturday, pence had released a statement saying, i do not condone his remarks and i cant not defend them. >> it is not clear that republican officials could dump trump even if they wanted to. the republicans are already voting and many of the ballot certification deadlines have pass and the ballots are in the voters' hands. and so far, trump, himself, he has said that he is not going anywhere. >> see you at the debate sunday. >> and joining me now is former new york city mayor and donald trump supporter, rudy giuliani. and welcome back-to-back here on "meet the press." and start with this, definitively, any circumstance where donald trump would not come or show up to the night's debate in st. louis? >> oh, no, no. he is going to show up, and as prepared as he has ever been and he is ready for the debate tonight. and he is obviously, you know, feels very bad about what he said. he has apologized for it, and he would probably do it again, but what he would like to do is to move on the issues facing the american people, and they only have a few more days to the think about it. >> and let me ask you this, kellyanne conway was supposed to be coming on the show to defend donald trump, and reince priebus was supposed to be going on another couple of shows, and they pulled out and only you are out to defend donald trump. are you the only one this the campaign to defend him? >> no, i was with kellyanne all day yesterday, and the same thing is true as chris. but i am the one selected for the show, but either one of the two of them would probably say pretty much the same thing that i am saying, because i was with them all day yesterday. >> in the last 24 hours a slew of republicans from across the country -- >> i sure do. >> and shellie, he needs to re-examine the candidacy, and cory gardener, he needs to step aside and let pence be the nominee. and carly fiorina and condi rice, please withdraw. any chance that donald trump will listen to the these republican party leaders who will withdraw? >> i think that he answered it yesterday by saying that he is going to be in the race and stay in the race and he was selected by more republican voters than anybody else has ever been selected and he has a duty to run. it is true that he said something, and a group of things during that interview that are reprehensible and awful and he feels terrible about it. it was 10 or 12 years ago. and he was not at that time, you know, running for office and he was not thinking of office. he has gone through, i think a very, very intensive process for running for president, and through the 14 months, he has been all over the country, and he understands the responsibilities on his shoulders now which weren't there back then and of all of the people who believe in him, and believe that he can reduce taxes and make us stronger against the islamic terrorism, and deal with the tremendous rising crime, and last year -- >> and mr. mayor, let me ask you -- >> and last year, crime went up in the last 41 years, and that is extraordinary, and the last 41 years. >> and back to the tape. he did notp apologize for apologize for attacking a gold star family or ap pologize for questioning the nature of a federal judge just because of the ette nhnicity and why he ch apologize for this? >> well, i think that in this case, he realized that we are talking about his personal behavior, and his statements that were absolutely wrong and when, i think that when he heard them, he was shocked. i am not sure that i won't say that he didn't remember them, but they were not at the top of his mind and when he was confronted with it, he was pretty darn shocked that he said such terrible thing, and feels terrible about it. he feels terrible for his family, and how embarrassing it is for them. and feels terrible from his own point of view, but he also realizes that he has a responsibility and the last 14 mon months have driven that into him -- >> and there is a pattern here. and this is -- let me play this, and this is not the first time he has talked this way. and here he was with howard stern. take a listen. >> i will tell you the funniest is that i will go backstage before a show. >> yes. >> and everybody is dressed and men are everywhere and i am ale loued to go through because i am the pageant and inspecting. >> you know, yes. >> the dresses, and is everybody there okay? and no clothes on and you see the incredible looking women, and sort i sort of get away with things like that the. >> and this is by the way not 11 years ago, but that is now july 20 2008. >> yeah, but that is still not running fort president, and on a shock jock show, and howard stern happens to be a friend of mine and i have been on the show. >> and why is this not -- wait, let me ask you this, mr. mayor, why is the idea of he was not running for president and so it is okay to be a my soj nis, and he is not running for president, and so it is okay to make unwanted sexual advances. >> chuck, chuck. i am not saying it is the right thing to do. i am saying that for example, when i was the mayor of new york and i went on the howard stern show, i made sure that we didn't fool around or tell jokes or say things that would shock people, and a on that show, a lot of things are not true, and you say them, because they are funny, and i'm a good friend of howard stern's and i like him a lot, and every time i was on the show, my people, and my mayor's people handled it so we don't talk about it. it is not right whether you are a politician or not, and now -- it is saying -- >> mr. mayor, it is not saying it, but doing it. he is bragging about making unwanted sexual advances, and you are saying that the words are wrong, and how about the actions? >> well, the actions would be even worse if they were actions. you see, talk and actions are two different things. >> and i did not say that. the "new york times," and temple taggert was a 21-year-old beauty question when she said that mr. trump kissed her on the lips without an invitation at a pageant event and unwanted event and she has seen him reliving the sexual aggressions in the interview saturday made me feel better and it is like, thank you, now nobody can say that i made it up. you were implying that the stuff was made up. >> i am not implying that it was made up. i am saying that we are talking about things that he was talking about and i don't know how much he was exaggerating or true, and i don't certainly know the details of it, but i know that this is unfortunately the kind of talk that goes on among a lot of people, and they shouldn't talk about this. this is a wrong. he realize that, and he understands it now, and he is running for president, and he reali realizes that he has got the weight of the responsibility of all of the people on his shoulder, and this is something that he won't do in the future. and he's very apologetic about it, and he wants to move on to what is going to be really important 30 days from now. and he is going to be lowering taxi taxings, and she is going to raise taxes, and he is going to add to the military and she is going to lower it, and add to the police with the biggest increase in crime in 41 years and take on the radical terrorism, and one thing that he is not is what came across in wikileaks which is two people. hillary clinton actually specifically described that she is two different people to the financial people who were giving her millions of dollars and she is on their side and wants to be a big part of the government, and she telling them that she has to pretend to everybody else that she isn't. >> and if you believe that hillary clinton says one thing in private and what she is what she is in private, and should we assume that what donald trump did in that "access hollywood" bus is what donald trump is like in private? that is what you are implying here with hillary clinton. >> you know, chuck, the reality is that both people, in both cases have thing s s in their personal lives if they could re-do it, they would do it differently, and the reality is that this is a situation in which neither side should throw the stone, because both sides are sin and how about we put that behind us, and start to talk about who is going to be low ering the taxes and say the word radical terrorism to defeat them and who is best able to support the police so that this largest increase in crime in 41 years doesn't start to become a trend. it is donald trump with his policies or hillary clinton who has had a chance, and she has been part of the political fabric for 30 years, and 70% of the country believes that we are moving in the wrong direction and she one of the reasons for i it. >> mr. mayor, a question, has he ruled out bringing up bill clinton's personal life at the debate? >> i believe that he willt not be bringing up bill clinton's personal life, but i believe there is a possibility that he will be talking about her situation if he gets to that. but i don't believe he prefers to do that, but i think that he will in trying to show -- >> what do you mean, what situation? >> what i am talking about is the things that she has said and reported in various books and magazines and other places about the women that bill clinton raped, sexually abused and attacked, and not bill clinton's role, but her role as the attacker. >> well, i -- i have run out of time, because i know that you have to do another television interview, but those allegations have not been true -- >> we would rather not get into that. >> all right. mr. mayor, we will leave it there and watch tonight's debate, and appreciate you sharing your views. joining me now is the first republican senator to call on trump to step down. mike lee of utah, senator lee, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you very much, jim. >> anything that rudy giuliani said there that would make you reconsider your support for donald trump or give him time tonight to show real contrition and change your mind? >> no, but there is something that mr. giuliani said that is significant which is that hillary clinton is in fact a flaw flawed candidate and deeply flawed candidate. so flawed in fact that i think that the democratic party ought to be take steps to replace her with someone else. for whatever reason they have not and they have chosen to be the party of the personality cult. we should not follow that path. the path i would suggest is the path to bring the republicans together, and bring together the grass root activists who have made donald trump so successful and had this persuasive argument that the washington political establishment of both parties has failed them, and that we need a new leader, a republican leader who can win. who can defeat hillary clinton, a and that is what unites us more than anything else as republicans is the fact that the washington political establishment is broke n and hillary clinton needs to be defeated. we need a candidate who can do that and i would like to see the republican party identify such a candidate and make that change. >> you identified flaws with donald trump and were willing to speak out about it before many others were, and a lot of people are now joining you over the last 48 hours, and a lot of the democrats and even some voters in the middle are going to say, why now? why did you wait until now? the evidence was there for months, arguably years, and certainly for instance you, s senator lee, you showed the judgment that i am not supporting him a year ago and stuck wit, and how should other republicans who have suddenly decided, okay i am not supporting him now answer that question? >> well, i think that people have to consider the totality of the evidence. there were some like me who had raised questions in light of the warning scnce early on, and there are at lot of others who wanted to be persuaded who hoped that they might be persuaded between now and november. what is released less than 48 hours ago was less than persuasive. in fact, it turned a lot of people off to the point that i have serious doubts now about mr. trump's ability to defeat hillary clinton, and in fact, i don't think that he can. now, there is a way here for mr. trump to have a legacy in this election cycle, and for his supporters who are really energetic and have done so much to expand the party to have a last i lasting legacy that could mean something here, and that is for donald trump to step aside and for the republican party to find a candidate who can bring together all of the elements within the republican party and defeat hillary clinton in november and what we need to do now. >> and if mitch mcconnell made that plea, it would probably send a powerful message. i nknow that you have been urgig others to join your cause, and what would you like to hear speaker ryan and speaker o'connell have denounced donald trump, but they are so fark sti -- so far, sticking by him, and they are the two leaders of the party, and do they need to step up? >> i would encourage any republicans whether they are leaders or in congress or not to step up to make their opinions known. look, the fact is that once again, chuck, we don't want to see, he leed president, and we have lots of other people who can do this. our party is not a personality cult. it is about ideas. and it is about ideas that the reinvigorate the middle-class and get the poor out of the party, and end this mindset that is crippling the american economy. we have candidates who can do i it, and there is time to do it, but we have to actually do it. >> is a that candidate for you mike pence? >> you know, i am agnostic about who it ought to be and there is time to decide who that needs to be, but the point is that mr. trump in order for any of this to happen needs to step aside. look, i want to make clear that we cant not win this election without donald trump's supporters, but we can't also win this election at the top of the ballot and in many cases down ballot without a different presidential candidate. that is why the time to act is really now. >> mike lee, republican from utah. appreciate your coming on this morning and getting up early out there. always appreciate it. thank you for sharing your views. >> thank you. when we come back, can the republicans do what mike lee is pleading to do, bump donald trump off of the ticket? what happens if he decides to step down? could they even get a name on the state ballots, and later, reaction from the democrats, could the democrats return nancy pelosi to the speakership? i will ask her about that coming up. stay with us. and on this side it's tennessee. no matter which state in the country you live in, you could save hundreds on car insurance by switching to geico. look, i'm in virginia... m in tennessee... virginia... m intennesse..... and now i'm in virginess. see how much you could save on car insurance. or am i in tennaginia? hmmm... whether it's connecting one of or bnging wifio 65,000 fans.e or campus. tennaginia? businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. it a professor who never stops being a student? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to ur ? your personal success takes a financial partner who values it as much as you do. learn more at tiaa.org keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. welcome back. the panel is going to join us. welcome to you all. all right. i want to start quickly with what mike lee is pleading to do. he say ths that there is still time. sar, and steve, you have dealt with the ballot deadlines and sar, a is there time? >> well, functionally isn't. people have been voting in florida and north carolina for example and by the end of next week, 18 states will have started the early voting, and so you can do it symbolically, and it may be useful for the senate candidates to have a different face of the party, but logistically, it is not possible. >> steve, what happens tonight? >> well, this debate is going to be like the last debate, and you will see someone who is manifestly unprepared for the duties of the aus of the president of the united states, and who has no idea what he is talking about from the policy perspective, who lacks the requisite dig nity required of somebody who wishes to be the head of state of the government of the united states, and someone who lacks the capacity to be the commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world's most potent nuclear arsenal is what you will see tonig tonight. >> and there is another way which is going to be looking like the last debate which is that donald trump will come in, and sounding contrite. whether he is ort not, and he will do his best to exhibit contrition, but it is going to be lasting only for so long, and these tweets and everything else that we are seeing suggesting that he is going to be going after bill clinton, and he just showed us last time around, he can't keep it together for 90 minutes. >> heather, i don't mean to interrupt, and i know that you just came in, but rudy giuliani said that he is not going to be bringing up bill clinton's past allegations. and now, he has tweeted an interview with anita broad ric, a and we know ere donald trump's head is at. >> and certainly, if there is a case for the last-minute face slift a folly, and mike pence is going to be rising as the man who can return the republican ticket to the fold of the female voters which women have not gone for the republican presidential nominee in decades, and mike pence is someone who was the initial sponsor of the bill to cut off funding for planned parenthood and cut off the funding for planned parenthood in indiana which led to a public health crisis, and signed a bill requiring women to give funeral services for fetuses, and you have the -- >> you have the candidate mike pence, and the democrats are -- >> and they can just sort of push trump aside and -- >> where the republicans did do well with the women. >> and let me throw up the women numbers so people know. this is before all of this, and among the women in the last n nbc/"wall street journal" poll, clinton led by 57%. and the positive favorite is 24-64 24-64%, and so, sara he was overperforming the favorable rating with women by 14 point, and possible that he could go low wer women? >> well, it is entirely possible that he could go lower with women, and what we saw friday indicates that he will go lower and what we also don't know what else is out there, and there is a month left in this campaign. and you know, you think about the tax bombshell a week ago and now this. it is hard for me to believe that we will go a month without some other significant news here, and so you can always go lower. >> and i will give you an "oh by the way" and central park five like in the middle of nowhere, he is saying with the -- acquitted. >> and paid money. >> paid money for the false accusation of murder. >> and that is the supported by the dna evidence and the perpetrator. >> and when we look at this the presidential race, it is effectively over, and hillary rodham clinton will be the 45th president of the united states and chuck shurmer is going to be next speakerer of the house, and the question is how close they will be to taking the house maer jor u the, the and what this is exposing is that it is a republican party to the institution is the candidacy and the magnitude of the disgrace to the country is almost impossi e impossible, i think to arct articula articulate, but it is exposed the intellectual rot in the republican party, and exposed the hypocrisy and the modern day money changers in the temple like jerry falwell, jr., and so this party to go forward and to represent a conservative vision for america has great soul searching to do, and what we have seen in the danger for all of the candidates is that over the course of the last year, these candidates who have repeatedly put their party ahead of their country, denying what is so obviously clear to anybody who is watching about his complete and total manifest unfitness for this office. >> well, steve, i will let that be the last word of the segment and pretty powerful statement there from you. you guys are coming back in a little bit. we will be back in a moment with a voice from the democratic side, and she is house minority leader nancy pelosi, but could donald trump give her back the spe speaker's gavel? as we go to break, "snl" had their own take on the trump tape. >> do you think that he should drop out? >> no, no, no. give him a shot. i'm claudine and i quit smoking with chantix. by the time i was 30, i said "that's it, i'm a smoker for life." i wanted to be a non-smoker and i did it thanks to chantix. along with support, chantix (varenicne) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix duced my urgto smoke some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility,gitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you have these, stop chantix and call your doctor rht away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor ifou t or bloodwoe symptoms.s, or devr get medical he right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stke. decrease alcoh use ile taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. st common side effect is nausea. this is for real. i'm a non-smoker. ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. make sure it's ano make a intelligent one. ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with available virtual cockpit. welcome back. we have heard from a number of republicans this morning reacting to donald trump's comments on the "access hollywood's" tapes, and we are happy to have a democrat joining us, and not any democrat, but the leader of the house, nancy pelosi. and let me start with the mess that donald trump finds himself in, and tonight, what do you advise secretary clinton to do if he brings up bill clinton's past? >> i don't think that secretary clinton needs advice from anybody. she is such a talented debater and the rest and when she goe into the oval office and she will in january, she is going to be one of the best prepared people in history in our country to do so by her knowledge, experience, judgment and her connection to the american people, and what they need. so, i think that she will talk about the issues. >> you think that is fair game that he brings up? >> no, because you know why? the elections are about the future. they are the future, and he is talk about something about bill clinton and he is not on the ballot, but what is important the note about all of this is that there's not a dime's worth of difference between donald trump and the republicans in congress when it comes to issues that really affect people's lives. dis disrespect for women whether it is a disrespect by saying equal pay for equal work, respecting a woman's decision to make about the size and the timing of her family, and whether it is about medicare and social security, and pence voted to privatize social security when president bush was president, and voted three times for the ryan budget to voucherize medicare and to take away the guarantee, and so the issues that relate to the well-being of women is more important than the locker room talk. >> and it is interesting that you brought up that you want to the tie the house republicans to donald trump, and i understand that a lot of the republicans say that they don't republican the democratic party and not just republican, but a prominent democrat said this at the convention. this is the sound. >> we democrats have always had plenty of differences with the republican party, and there is nothing wrong with that. it is precisely this contest of ideas that pushes the country forward. but what we heard in cleveland last week was not particularly republican. and it sure was not conservative. >> did the president inoculate rank and file republicans from donald trump with that comment? >> no, no. i completely agree with what the president said. the republican party is the grand old party and it has done great things for the country, but what we have been saying so them is take back the party, ad it has been hijacked by the radical wing of, i don't know of what in our country and not even of your party, and when president bush was president, we treated him with respect. we got a lot of done, and including the war in iraq, and privatizing social security and he is one of the best presidents in immigration, and he was disappointed by his own party for not support ing thing that of the biggest energy bills in the history of our kcountry, an the list goes on, and so, no, we need a strong republican party, and i don't paint everybody with the same brush bucks the republicans in the house of representatives i do. >> okay. let me ask you about something that came out in the leaks. the leaks of the hacking of john poe d podesto that implied that she says one thing. and if everybody is watching you know the back room discussions and the deals that you know, then people are nervous to say the least. so you need both a public and a private position. it sounds like what she is saying that i will tell you one thing here, and in this private speech that you, and i will have a public position another way, trade for instance seems to be one topic where she says one thing behind the scenes and one thing publicly and how do we trust her trade position for instance? >> well, i trust her trade positio position, we are a global reality, and we don't have to accept tpp and sit down with the workers and growing paychecks and portraying the policy that way rather than starting with with the investment. >> and you take her at the word that she will not support tpp. >> absolutely. >> and you will not, too? >> i want to have a trade agreement and i have said to the members that i don't want to give anybody a fast track. we didn't give it to bill clinton or president bush or barack obama. and we were disu krim gnat with generally democrats and republicans. and there needs to be a ability to have more say in how trade affects american workers, and so we are against the tpp. >> you take her at her word that she is not somehow saying two thing, and somehow not doing, and somberny sanders' supporters see that, and they say, that is why i don't trust her. >> what you are hearing that, and the first time i am hearing that, and what you are hearing is that we should have a trade agreement, and it isn't tpp, because that is not what, and it does not start with the american worker, and it rejects any discussion of climate and relationship to commerce. so, hillary clinton -- we, the fact is that she has such great knowledg knowledge, and she has a vision about her country, and it is about strengthening the middle-class and this is the biggest difference of democrats and republicans, classically, and trickle-down economics and breaks for the rich, and middle-class economy, and growing the middle-class and thoses aspiring it to, and havig consumer confidence an to inject it into the economy and to grow the economy. >> and how damaging were the bill clinton's comments about obama care and talking about the craziest thing of folks squeezed in the middle and folks not eligible for the subsidies and when he clarified it he basically circled what he believes to be, and what he circled essentially is the issue that the republicans are bringing on the campaign trail. >> not damaging at all. >> not at all? >> no. i mean, affordable care act of 20 million more people have access to affordable quality health care, and not only that, but many, tens of millions more are no longer subjected to pre-existing conditions, eliminating -- >> you acknowledge this problem with the premiums and the problem in the middle? >> well, i wanted a single payer, and i would love a single payer, but we are not -- and i wanted a public option which would address that, but we have never done anything, whether it was social security, medicare and the rest where we have not said how does this, and let's see how it works and improve it. and no, i would not worry about that, but what i do think is that affordable care act stands there with social security and medicare and medicaid and affordable health care as a pillar of economic health and security for american families, and it is important to know that the republicans have voted over 65 times to eliminate it, and they have voted more than one time to dismantle a medicare by taking a wway the guarantee. the ryan budget takes away the guarantee, and pence voted for that three times. >> and final question. how confident are you that you will be getting the speaker's gavel? >> it is not about me, but it is about the democrats to win as many seats, but i want the american people to win in this election to take it to a place where we are talking about the issues that affect them in their daily lives and try to find some consensus, and one of the other differences of the democrats and the republicans, we really do come forward to work in the bipartisan way, and president obama certainly did that, and we did it respectfully with president bush and i hope that we can otake the debate to the place where the american people are not disgusted and turned off by what is happening in the campaign, but instead, inspired by it. >> all right. nancy pelosi. >> okay. go, giants. >> no comment, i will let it go being a dodger fan. and how big of a role will the trump tape play in the next week. stay with us. >> mr. trump, many republicans have stood by you through other scandals, and now people are pulling their support. john mccain >> coward. >> carly fiorina? >> a four. >> and -- mmmm. these are great. my work here is done. phillips'. the tasty side of fibe or keeping a hotel's guests cuttinconnected.i to 35,000 fans... businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. g new cars. you're smart you already knew tt. but it's also great for finding the ect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar. welcomback. >> welcome back. time now for the daily download and before the trump tape was released, donald trump was starting to sink in the state and national polls and today, two brand-new nbc/wall street/marist poll. hillary clinton is leading by all registered voters, and the race is tighter when you cut it down for likely voters where clinton leads by 3, 45-42, but it is florida, three points which is a big lead fort florida in the presidential politic, and trump does not have a path to the presidency without florida. and now, to pennsylvania, and so-called firewall of pennsylvania and it is looking like one, and solid among the registered voters and she has a double-digit race in the four-way race, and when you cut it down for likely voters the double-digit lead is still there, and leads by 12, 49-37, and by the way, 12-point lead for clinton in pennsylvania could mean that she is likely gaining next door ohio as a couple of recent polls have suggested. remember all of the polls were in the field before the news of tr trump's "access hollywood" tapes bro broke. coming up, we will tee up the tonight's unusual presidential debate in st. louis. and later, seth meyers on comedy in politics. >> we don't think of it in terms of, well, we will tell the jokes about donald trump because they will work the best, but we tell the jokes about donald trump, because they are the ones that we like the most. from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learmore at chase.com/ink adult 7+ promotes alertness and mentalharpness in dogs see what the power of points can do for your business. 7 and older. (ray) the difference has been incredible. she is much more aware. she wants to learn things. (vo) purina pro plan bright mind. nutrition that performs. back now with the panel. guys, before the access hollywood tapes, there was some question about the idea of a town hall format and how donald trump would interact, and we did a little numbers crunching here, and you know, he does not do a lot of the town halls, and hillary clinton does a lot of the small events and town halls and interacting with so-called what you guys call in the business real people, and she has done 65 to trump's 33 and we are generous counting that 33. ruth, trum interacting with the ev everyday people is to me a unique challenge for him? >> well, he did it the other night, but it was not practicing for the debate in new hampshire, and shoe, and because real people can ask you rude questions or questions that you p perceive if you are donald trump to be hostile, and what does donald trump tell us about how he deals with hostile nasty questions? he is a counter puncher, and you can koucounter punch hillary clinton and a network anchor, but you cant not counter punch somebody in the town hall, and that is going to be a hard h thing for him. >> and this is not a particularly great format for her either, because she has been so inkrcredibly scripted throug the campaign and even a lot of the evidence that the town halls that she does do, and you know, she prescreens the questions, and so to the degree that she is asked a question that is unk uncomfortable about bill clinton's past or the way she handled bill clinton's past, it could end up not being a great night for her either. >> but it is also true with the trump tapes, this is broken through from the political, you know, round table through to culture, and right? as soon as the trump tapes went live, you had women going on the social media to do something extremely brave which is to share their own stories of sexual assault, right? >> i am sorry to interrupt you, but what happens when a woman says, i have been touched against my will and this is how i felt about it, mr. trump, and how does he deal with that? that is a tough one. >> we are having a style discussion of how he is going to present, but going back to first debate, it is not that he had a bad debate in the way that george w. bush did or barack obama did. it is just that for the first time in history, you saw a candidate for president of the united states who was absolutely incoherent. talking about nuclear weapons and in one breath and then attacking rosie o'donnell in and a ad hom nin attack in the next breath. it is unprecedented how bizarre it is. and tonight, he is going to be getting the with questions of no policy depth, and he doesn't know anything about the public policy issues, and incoherent on the national security issues, and you will see what happened in the last debate, an inability to get through 90 minutes. >> and the best thing is for him to shift away from the tapes and go to policy, and that is how bad he is. >> and that is the case that we have spent little to talk about and hillary clinton's e-mail, and more from the e-mail from the clinton campaign was released and in it, she is tauk lk ing to the wall street one way and talking to regular voters another. and this is getting almost no news, because once again, we are talking about donald trump. >> block out the sun. >> great way to put it. >> heather, she is going to have to answer that question, the personal and the public and the private. you know, what is so interesting about both leaks is that it made everybody, and reinforce d the stereotype, and with trump, reinforced a grotesque stereotype, but with clinton, a political staur yo type. >> we elect the politicians to offic office, and there is a different moment in the politicians -- >> how dare you. i dare you. >> trust me, as progressive as anyone and my organization has been fighting to rein in wall street's abuses, and we know what we get with hillary clinton. >> do you trust her? >> actually, in some ways and knowing that someone is such a politician that they actually go to the center of the political moment has made it, i think easier for the progressives to know how the organize. i am serious. after january, we know that opposed to what happened when barack obama came into the office, this is what the progressives talk about right now, nobody wanted to organize against him and push him to the left. >> that is not going to be the case. >> that is very interesting. >> and i think it is deeply comforting for the republicans that behind closed doors, she thinks that bernie sanders is nuts and for republicans that cannot vote for donald trump, it is comforting. >> and by the way, put up the battleground map, and we put it up friday and it is obsolete, and essentially, we have toss up states, and iowa, and nevada and new hampshire at this point, and we don't have pennsylvania, and we made this decision before we knew the pennsylvania numbers, and it was reinforced there, and where does this map go from here, steve, after this all of this, steve? >> it goes blue. the bottom is fall iing out. >> and then what comes next? arizona, and georgia and utah? >> well, step outside of the revelations on friday from the tape, and let's just look are from the debate performance through the attacks on miss universe, and the midnight tweeting, and it is the worst week a presidential candidate has ever had in october in a presidential election, ever. >> period? >> yes, there are going to be a lot more swing states come wednesday. >> swing states that we have never seen before, kn, watch out. >> and there is at lot of talk of republican candidates distancing themselves, and john mccain is the only one who has done it in advertising and it is tuesday or wednesday or thursday and for the rest of the ads show up. >> and is that too late? >> and let me pause there, and back in 45 second, and "end game" and what seth meyers had to say about donald trump. >> coming up, "meet the press" end game brought to you by boeing, building the future one century at a time. qo :é @d888888@888jj >> announcer: coming up, "meet the press" end game broughto you by back now with end game. okay. let me finish that discussion because i cut you off and we wanted to do that. can democrats turn this moment, heather, into a wave moment or not? >> it needs to be, because the actual problems in the country are really urgent, and one thing that if you are stepping back from the mess and the unfitness of him as a candidate, this election has shown that the donor class has broken away from the working and the middle-class majorities of both parties and sanders and trump has shown that and can we continue that into the policy. >> and by way, you mean can the democrats take back the house? if you are putting up the polls that we have from pennsylvania and florida earlier, there is a question in there, and only four and five percent respectively are willing to change the vote, and that is, yes, before the "access hollywood" tapes and people are dug in. it is hard for me to believe that while donald trump may lose a few points here, but it is not as wide as we are thinking it is here today. >> and steve, i will tell you the senate race number, 12-point lead for hillary and pat mcginty over pat toomey, and so candidates that the democrats were walking away from? >> no doubt. inside of the republican party, and break glass and hit the emergency button, because we are at that hour now. and chairman priebus has enormous difficult decisions to make come monday morning to see what he can save, and begin the prospect of rebuilding the party after what is in essence going to be an armageddon moment on election day. >> and we need to, and i dont n't know about the wave yet, because we don't know about the known and unknowns, and which is what happens when more things come, and when and if more things come out as we have been told, and what happens if it turns out that donald trump was not all talk and no action, and women are coming forward to say that he grabbed me there? and the question of how quickly and how soon republicans renounced trump. the lifeboats are getting awfully full. >> tonight in the debate and donald trump is the wrong person to do this, but hillary clinton has never been asked about the way she described the women who accused bill clinton allel alleged but near 20, and she did go on tv on this network in the 1990s and, you know, effectively called them nuts, and said that they had things in their background and if we are going to be having a conversation about sexual abuse and predators, she should be asked if she regrets the way she handled it? >> does she have an answer of that nature, heather? >> i think that we will have to seetonight. i do. there is no way this t world that donald trump does not bring that up, and it does not become a shouting match quickly. >> i think that she has to have an answer that is not the deflection. >> her answer is that my husband is not on the ballot and i am. >> and he is not on the ballot, and she is, and the way she handled it. >> and my husband cheated on me, and i stayed with him, and you cheated on your wife and left them. >> interesting segment. all right. let's lighten the mood here a little bit. our buddy seth mi yeyers is bringing his late night show to d.c. all this weekk and i sat down with him on friday, and we talked about donald trump and this specific joke that he made the last time that he had a big deal time in this town. >> donald trump has been saying that he will be running as a president as republican which is surprising, because i assumed that he was running as joke. >> obviously at this moment, you did not know the expression that nigh night. >> i didn't. >> and i am sure that you have seen this clip, but there is repo reporting and speculation that said that the ridicule that he received that night gave him more drive to prove everybody wrong and run. >> yeah, i -- sincerest apologies to everyone if that is the case. >> do you feel like there is a duty about this election? >> i don't feel -- i also don't think that i could fulfill it if there was a duty. i don't think that we have as much influence as every now and then people will write or claim us to have. yeah, i don't feel it is a duty. i genuinely enjoy doing it though. >> and that is about as seth meyers and whether comedians in this last month have a duty to denounce trump more so than ever or whether you just be funny. >> at least we found somebody who is enjoying the campaign. >> it is hard. the comedians have had the best time. >> they are not journalists, and they are entertainers and the job is to entertain, and it is not to put this the minds of the public the things about the candidates for which they are not qualified to be putting forward policy information. >>ed and they do reveal an essential truth about the candidates, and so from the political adviser perspective, we try to mitigate the weaknesses, and that is part of the process, the full reveal. >> the merri technician. and tonight, we will have a face-off style with donald trump and hillary clinton and it is going to be the most surreal debate in history, i can promise you that. and that is all we for today, and we will see you next week, because if it is sunday, it is "meet the press." and ready for the showdown in st. louis tonight. i'm kristen welker coming to you live from missouri university. are you pump up and excited? that says it all. this is is the place where in six hours from now, clinton and trump are going to be facing off for round two, the second presidential debate, and this one, it may not be too kid-friendly tv than tox the october surprise for trump. and the all-out gop revolt that
it made my mother happy. i don't expect to call. >> there is a lot of great women out there and the same can be said with hispanics and muslims. he's going to have a diverse cabinet. >> all right, that promise being made right there. we'll wait and see as protesters gearing up another night of taking to the streets declaring donald trump is not their president. our correspondence our correspondents is joining us, we got kristen welker and halie jackson and hans nickel. andrea mitchell, let me start with you. >> it is a reflection between the relationship between donald trump and chris christie. mike pence is a disinterested and neutral person in this. he has the president elect's interest at heart. he does not have his own agenda. he's not looking for another position in the administration. he had this elected position prime among of all of the people around donald trump. i think this reflects more on whether there was some internal concerns about chris christie and he is interviews. remember the interview he did on the "today" show when he was asked about himself wanting the chief of staff position. there was also the fact that chris christie among the small circle of newt beginning witch and rudy giuliani was less supportive of donald trump of the closing days and weeks. he was less out there. he seems to be hanging back. perhaps his loyalty and his own self interest is questioned. and tlauls a question whether there is a bridge gate fallout or other stuff that may come, that may happen, some other things that may fall. >> to play off with bridge gate out there. our halie jackson was there yesterday as mike pen was side by side with donald trump. how important is pence and because of his connection on the hill to be able to build those developing relationships with those that are skeptical and of the agenda of trump. >> thomas roberts, this is one of the key reasons why those close to president elect trump at the time during his campaign, i am thinking paul manafort were urging him to select somebody like mike pence or select mike pence specifically for that vice president slot because he does have relationships here in congress. he's close to house speaker paul ryan and he understands the way washington works. he had been here for so long. it was an intentional choice for donald trump. as andrea noted, the president elect trump appears to be making use of those relationships and leveraging them in order to try to put together this transition team. i think it is fair to say that because pence knows what his position will be, he's not looking for a role inside the west wing. that's a concern and there is been some drama playing out and there is still is some drama playing out over who ends up of that chief of staff position and given chris christie roles in the transition team. this appears to be a step back for governor christie and a step forward for the vice president ee le elect. >> he will continue to talk and transition after their meeting yesterday with vice president biden. >> one of the first that comes from a new administration coming in is that pick of the chief of staff, we had andy carr, who was the chief of staff with our colleague today. this was his insights. take a look. >> the names that have been mentioned to me, seems a little bit and not bridge building. the group of the chief of staff is to work with the people who are on the edge of embraces the president rather than those who already embraced him. >> andrea, let me play it to you and go back to the george h.w. bush if we are going to use that. it was the reverse basically of going from the oval to the rnc. did we see reince priebus -- >> i think priebus is an interesting choice. >> partly because he knows the hills well and he knows everyone in the republican politics and he would be a great bridge to the rest of the republican party. he has proved his loyalty certainly to this campaign. >> bringing insider in when you have an outsider president is a really good idea. jimmy carter could used another outsider president. >> andrea, people are talking about steve bannon, koild he get this job? >> certainly he could because of his loyalty and the power and the intellectual energy. he has that particular role and can weigh in on everything and add more free reign and not be the administrator and not the link to congress. that would not be the strengths that i would think for steve bannon and setting off other fire works. they have to figure out what the president elect trump is comfortable with. it is his administration and white house. if you look at power play around washington and who has the bridge of the hill and who is the person helping to craft speeches and helping to do the philosophy and ideology that's most comfortable for donald trump. there are a lot of way that is you can play it. real estate is important though. >> when we see who in which office is a really important game. the person who has the office right off the oval, that's what you want to know. >> well, president elect trump understands real estate. >> i want to go over to our hans nickel on the other side of things. what are you saying inside the national security of organization about expert he's looking to attack to lead them. >> the briefing, a colleague of mine has reported, mr. trump has not received his first briefing. that could come this afternoon. that's the job that i have been hearing. the transition between the pentagon and the transition office, those conversations have not taken place. now, as for names and these personalities and people, they are important because in some way, they'll populate the government and help establish policies. here are some reporting we are hearing on the names. jeff session out there, secretary of defense and steven hadley is the name that keeps coming. he was bush's national security guide. here is the best report that i got for you. steven hadley, the only person that this person ever saw sleeps on air force one in his suit in a coffin's post. >> rice would be out there and steve hadley, a smart guy but you ask yourself, a guy sleeps in air force one sleeps on his suit. is that the kind of guy that's going to jive with donald jay trump personally. >> we shall see. when you have president obama holding the national veterans day ceremony at the national cemetery and he made a comment about how he sees a way to bridge the divide port. take a look. >> veterans day often follow a hea hard fought political campaign. an exercise and preach the government that you fight for. it often lays barriers and disagreements across our nation. the american instinct has never been to find isolation and opposite corners. it is to find strength in our common creed to forge unity from our great university to sustain that strengths and unity even when it is hard. when the e llection is over as search a way to come together and connect with one another. when the principles is more enduriing -- some of our best examples is our men and women that we salute today. >> talk about the soul searching that still goes on in the white house about what the president's next step is to help president elect trump. >> what we heard from president obama is an echo of what he has been saying in the rose guard and yesterday in the oval office which is that smooth transitions are a fundamental and critical part of the nation's democracy. he takes this very seriously, she's working very hard to make sure that this transition is smooth. not only in terms of the mechanics but also in terms of the tone that has been coming from him. he thinks it is critical. in terms o f the mechanics, this white house, this add minuminisn has been working on this since the beginning of this year, really earlier than president obama's predecessor. he talks about the fact that former president bush made the transition so smooth for him and he wants to replicate that for president elect trump. what does it mean? >> they are going to have office space near the white house. they are going to be in constant contact with the different agencies here. they are going to be holding briefings. donald trump is going to get intelligen intelligence briefings in addition to his top aids. they'll hold exercises in crisis management to really prepare the incoming and administration and the in coming team for anything that may happen. of course, you may never be completely prepared until you get here. the goal transition is to get the tools necessary. one interesting point before i throw it back to you. >> 58%, 40% disapproved. that's just a striking number as he prepares to leave office. >> that's a good sent off for president obama to have numbers like that. he would like solve the successor he wanted taking over the white house to protect his legacy. >> halie, we want to take you back to the white house. trump did promise that we'll get some names who would be running the government there. we see eric trump and ivanka trump getting in. these are the typical insider that we witnessed at donald trump's side. when it takes to the course of washington washington, d.c., how comfortable with folks there with the idea that resurrecting a lot of old names of certain lobbyists and gop insiders that maybe on the fringe of what the office looks like today. >> they don't have much choice. by virtue of having one more than 270 electoral votes, donald trump gets to choose who he wants to be in washington. the rest of the republican side, they have to kind of figure it out. i remember the night of the election, we were speaking with one of producer frank sources on capitol hill. yeah, donald trump will now have to search and learn how washington works. no, he does not. the republicans in washington are going to have to adjust to president elect trump. he will have to work with people in congress but having the house and senate and the white house now is going to likely power them to some legislative victory and get some things done and policies done as they are getting it done. is he choose name on the fringe of what people want to see, national security, yes, it is a new president and it is going to be probably a little bit of a new world for folks here in dc. >> the gop figures out how trump played in his campaign and he's getting in his way of the course he wants to take. he's going to take over the transition team and chris christie had been leading on the charge on that. pence cushner, donald trump's son-in-law and steve bannon that are leading. we'll keep you posted on all the developments as we expect more coming ing today. our andrea mitchell and hans nicoll and halie jackson and kristen welker. >> coming up next, martin o'malley for the position of dnc chair. donald trump is now just 70 days away from becoming the president of the united states. ♪ ♪ ♪ is it a force of nature? 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(bing) i'm a substation electrician my nwith pg&e.ck varela. when i was 17 years old, signed up for the united states army and i started serving and i now get to serve the customers of pg&e. i get to help other families. and that's what it's all about. when i came back from iraq, couldn't find work. then i found pg&e's power pathway program. here at pg&e i'm successful living in eureka with our two beautiful kids with a brand new career all because of the power pathway program. if you are a veteran, go to pge.com/powerpathway and hopefully your life will change like mine did. together, we're building a better california. all three branches of government are leading the branch to a scramble. chuck schumer, and former maryland governor, martin o'malley who ran against clinton. she's taking a hard look at dnc chair. >> i am very interested in the chair of dnc, not so much because i think i am the only person that can fix it. we need a full-time chair. >> so it is official, you are running. >> it is my plan. i like keith aernderson a lot. he's a very good guy. you cannot do this job and sit in the office at the same time. it is not possible. >> joining me now is former dnc chair, and our msnbc political analyst. governor, do you have a declaration to make or can i ask you some questions? >> all right, so who gets your support? >> well, i like all three of the candidates. i like martin o'malley very much so. the question is someone might be a candidate for president in the future, good idea, i think the point that our dean makes about keith anderson, he's young and progressive. he reaches out to all part of the party. keith is a good candidate because he can hold down a congressional job. it is something to the fact that the chair needs to be a full-time position. >> and debbie wasserma wasserman shults -- >> the chair is going to have to travel a whole boat load and get across the country. it is hard to do as a city congressman. i would be interested in talking to keith anderson this afternoon and interested in seeing how he addresses that. >> when we think of the democrats andargely losing the election because of white working class voters not showing up and they are being the core of your party. how is having ellison and mark o'malley -- getting them interested again. >> but, i think we have to do a better job of pain stakingly through town meetings and a lot of different ways. pain stakingly reconnected with them and going through the issues that's important to them. >> for example, if you go back two years or three years ago at the beginning of the recession when most of those workers were flat out unemployed, who's fighting the stand of unemployment benefit? republicans were fighting to stop it and we were fighting to extend it. that's an issue that people forgotten about it. if you go issue after issue, eight or nine of the ten issues that are important, we are on the right side. we just got to get the measure to them. it is more than just one person. we got to do a full course. >> sir, thank you very much. it is nice to see you, i pree appreciate it. >> thank you. it is about breaking news considering the president elect trump announcing the new presidential transition team. as we told you earlier this hour. vice president elect is going to take over serving h is chairman. we got doctor ben carson and chris christie who has taken a front seat position and newt gingrich is on this and lieutenant general michael flinn and rudy giuliani and jeff sessions with all be on this committee at vice chair. we got family members of donald trump on this team as well announce ugh t announcing the following leaders will be on the executive committee which includes jerry cushner and derrick jr. and iviv ivanka trump and chris colins and congressman barletta and amm bondy and peter teal who was the -- and rumors to be a big part of the team. the big name that donald trump promised today early in a tweet and we have a team leadership staff, kellyanne conway is going to be senior adviser and david bossy who's the deputy executive director and steven miller of the policy director. and the vice president elect has tapped three senior advisers to work with him. the names interestingly enough, we have been talking about some of these folks and now we have it right in front of it especially of mike pence who'll helm the transition team. lets give you a look at trump tower. this is in manhattan, it is known as the white house north. it is been a scene. a real scene for folks coming out, some happy and sad and for the secret service, this is a big job to secure this manhattan's landmark now. protests are continuing and how trump and his team are addressing how people say he's not his president. we are asking you in our pulse question despite calls to accept trump's victory, do you think trump cambridge this national divide. 8% say yes and 92% say no. check out our pulse at pulse. msnbc.com. we'll be back after this. is he gone?? finally, i thought he'd never leave... tv character: why are you texting my man at 2 a.m.? no... if you want someone to leave you alone, you pretend like you're sleeping. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. tv character: taking selfies in the kitchen does not make you a model. ♪ ♪ see ya next year. this season, start a new tradition. experience the power of infiniti now, with leases starting at $319 a month. infiniti. empower the drive. welcome back, members of donald trump's family have been listed as apart of this group. eric and don jr. and ivanka have been spotted going in and out of trump tower. this is in manhattan. we got the sanitation truck acting as barricade and heavy police presence at this part of manhattan. meanwhile anti-trump protesters are taking their message out on the streets of another night. we saw demonstrators in chicago to milwaukee. and msnbc's cal perry is outside the president elect trump's home, trump tower. describe the situation there and what we are expecting to see over the weekend. this is a hub of activity for this transition team. >> reporter: yeah, it is a never changing security situation. it is a secret service's nightmare. this is midtown manhattan, a 56 story glass building. fifth avenue is shut down and beyond for the area. this area is shut down. traffic going down from fifth avenue runs the length of central park. people who are not from new york city, that's crazy. it is crazy insane that fifth avenue has been shut down. protests were bad out west. here where i am standing we saw 400 pro-hillary supporters and we saw in rallies, protesters would come and interrupting our interviews. >> you don't include of the fact that we had an awesome president there. you are portraying something different of the one that i am really is. >> now, that kind of language and aggressive behavior is not representative of all trump's supporters but what is representative and what we do here consistently from a number of trump supporters that we heard is a deep distrust of the media. s the -- it is a message that blasted beyond the campaign throughout now and into the period and talking to police officers who changed the way the area works. they are shoeioing them away an anticipation of what's going to to happen this weekend. they expect protests to be large tonight and much bigger tomorrow night. here we have been talking to people on the streets and people from nypd who says overtime is up and double shifts are on their way. >> cal perry, thank you very much. >> that woman will not be embodiment for trump supporter, maybe stop for a drink or something, too. >> lets keep on this breaking news as we continue to go through this list as the president elect trump announce the new phase of the new team is led by mike pence. joining me is our former president of the ceo --and heather mcgee, it is great to see both of you. ben, this is interesting. we are looking at this list and it is a lot of the usual suspects. i am looking add the lead being mike pence and ben carson is on this list. it is a list of names and family that we know. what i can tell, ben carson is the only person of color that has influential role at the top and side by side with mike pence. >> yeah, that's not surprising if you look at the campaign that he's run. it is just -- it fits right in with the approach and the slain of this campaign from the beginning who were the other high profile black supporters. you had mike tyson -- >> this is a high stake in dc to be apart of. are the people that we are seeing here on this list, are a lot o f the folks whether their family members or people we saw as surrogates on tv, people that are inside the bubble are moving to washington. is this part of the narrative or does this concern you? >> they are predominantly lobbyist lobb lobbyists in this list. each of them have a story that has, you know, it is not what we want to see as an american leadership. here is mike pence at a veterans day event that's taking place. this is live for folks tuning in. this is the governor of indiana and he's the vice president elect, the trump's transition team for chris christie have been leading this. ben, i don't know if you have seen this. folks who are feeling very upset about what this means after eight years of president obama, what's the message of folks to not stay sad but to realize that this is how democracy works, and you got to pick yourself up and dust yourself off if you want something different. >> yeah, look, i think we have to respect the feedback that a lot of people in this country are grieving. they are not grieving because their party lost, they are grieving because the candidate won who has threatened the very livelihoods or the lives of their neighbors. there is a lot of people who are here from other countries who are concerned they maybe deported and back to places where those people could be killed. so you have to respect the fact that people have this fear at the same time, it is important that we look down the ballot and celebrate the real wins that progressives have had. we have a real justice reformer coming into the u.s. senate. we have our first latina coming in the senate. we won bill from coast to coast and people want to live in fear. we see the minimum wage increased in several states. the list goes on and on. and i think it is time for people to yes, be figuring out how we are going to stop the worse policies of donald trump build up our movement. at the same time to really respect the fact that if we want something we can build on them and -- >> as we look down at that data, there are swing states voters that voted for president obama, and twice came out for dpronald trump. we have newberryiers putting down in front of trump's tower. there are new big vehicles coming into help create this barrier. >> harry reed -- this does not feel like america. but, how does a president elect trump unring this bell? >> he cannot unring the bell because it was the bell that he sounded every single time he opened his mouth and explained to his supporters how the world works. he explained it by saying "they" and they was often religious and ethic minorities are taking something away from you. the "you" was often just white people. this is the kind of story that's been told subtly all over the media and many ways through the republican party and southern strategies since lyndon johnson civil rights act of 1965. how is it that we had a revolution of the democratic party under president bill clinton deregulated fiennance. how much we are willing to take on corporate power in the democratic power with insiders and outsiders withpolitics. >> amen. >> i think we got an amen from ben jealous. >> i want to say thank you. we talked to you so much in the days and weeks to come as we all kind of going through this together and figure it out. i want to gamecoo back to my colleague, halie jackson. as we look at the usual suspects here. this is kind of typical and there are not many shockers here, are they? >> no, they are not. forgive me for looking at my phone, i am trying to get a note out to you guys. i am hitting send on that and looking at these names here. here are a couple of things standing out here. you see some women on this list, women and trump is taking fire for a lack of diversities from the name that's floated out there for top positions. there is some buzz online and tiffany trump is not on the list, eric, ivanka and donald jr. that's not a surprising to me. we saw her speak at the republican national convention and that was a high profile role for her but it was not as though as she was prominent of a surrogate and i know the children of president elect trump hate to be called surrogate because they are family members. you did not see that quite as much from tiffany trump from certainly donald jr. eric and ivanka. steve bannon which was on there and priebus was on there which we expect. chris christie is still the vice chair. ben carson, we have been reporting out he's under consideration for a possible candidate position as well. >> i don't know if there are any shockers there as people you see of the transition team. kellyanne conway and these are names that are nra r with anybody who's been covering donald trump's campaign. >> so i think that we are starting to see though a more formal structure being put in place and getting structured out. that's something we are expecting to see. we talked and i think you are on our network wide conference call, we were talking about ex p ex -- the team shifted away on the celebration on wednesday and thursday is a day to visit washington friday, day three, of the transition it is time to put these pieces in place and start to move forward. they got to move quickly because there are activities that need to start happening the next couple of weeks as far as getting the current administration and given the download to the next administration and their counter parts in that. you got to start connecting the dots here. there is not a ton of time left before january 20th. >> time is the essence. we are talking about the daily intelligence briefing book and trump has access to that intelligence. yes, time is of the essence for them to get this together and to start effectively getting up to speed. we had moments ago just here in new york with former rudy giuliani talking about the transition, lets listen. >> our friendship and loyalty to him. i can see already how he's going to be a great president and i am glad i can play a small role in it. >> what's your advice for him? >> that i give to him personally. [ laughs ] >> do you expect to be apart of his cabinet. >> there we see insider the trump's team. former mayor rudy giuliani talking about whether or not he will have a cabinet role and we'll wait and see. we does know he gives add vvice president elect trump. our hugh hughes, let me reaction from trump's team. is that a logical pick or let the president elect trump take over? >> well, i see governor chris christie -- governor pence, your transition chair is a great move. mike pence is key bridge between the article one republicans in congress and led by president elect trump. i went back and looked at my last interview of mike pence from october 25th. he made out three priorities, rebuilding the navy and getting tax policies right and he was careful to put a construction on the courts. so they're about 25 jobs, thomas, that mattered and they're delegated down below that. donald trump has put together more management team in a hurry than their business careers. he knows how to do this. he makes 25 collection and the big five and department of homeland security and treasury and the department of defense and you let them staff down and you staff out your white house with the chief of staff and the council and the president and some of them of the fielding. then you let them go out and find great people so i am actually very encouraged and i will give you one more example. nick air is a name that not many people know about. he's 37-year-old. he's a wonder kid. when he was a executive -- >> he's one of the senior adviser. >> he's 37 and he knows all the young conservatives in town and all the talents. it does not matter what colors they are. donald trump needs talents. >> what happens to that statement about you know the kids are going to take care of the business and it is going to be in a blind trust? >> oh not yet. >> you don't have to do the blind trust until after. >> what's the point of having the children that had no political knowledge in adviser's role for this campaign and now for an executive team member to transition president elect trump? >> oh, i think it is a great idea. they know their father and priorities and know the campaign that's conducted and know that the people that who are on board and people in between and then when they do accomplish the trust, they have to exit from the governing if they all stay in the management side. in this transition, there is no question. i served in the white house's council office, during the transition period, there is no ethical problems whatever so ever. you cannot have any power if you are going to run trump enterprises after president trump becomes president trump in january. >> for folks trying to pick apart that. three adult kids that were supposed to run the trump organization, they'll be running it as we know this while this announcement comes out. we have not gotten any information of donald trump's business than anyone else taking over other than his adult children who are also on his transition team. you can understand why that's a red flag of folks. why not pick people that understand what dc government maybe about because there is no not a lot of time here. >> i should push back of the idea that people are concerned about that. >> the law should be very clear and the clearance process is very clear. after you're sworn in and take the oath of office, it do descend on everyone that's involved. there cannot be any self dealing. from this 75 days, anyone can be on the planning than after the 75 days, those must exit from any private interests they have that can me influenced by the decision making. i don't think it is a story. i have only dealt with ivanka and she's been a guest on my show. she's very, very impressive. you want her input and selection of people who have been useful to the success of trump's enterpris enterprises. you want donald jr. and eric. if they are staying, -- helping the country kind of breathe out so there is not a problem yet. there really is not. you would not find one democrat, the council of the president before. he would not see any problem with this. there is not one serious legal scholar that would say there is a problem of having a big transition team. it all kicks in on january 21st. there after, i do have a caution, blind loyalty is very dangerous. blind loyalty leads to scandal. the reagan years had many of them and the obama years, you want loyalty, you don't want line loyalty. >> a lot of people are looking at this and the expectations of donald trump being self propelled to get in this position. there is an expectation that he's working for all americans after january 20th. there is an accountability ex peck pe peck -- expectations. >> hugh hewitt thank you. mike pence right now appearing at an event of vete n veterans day. >> we have been asking the question on our pulse, 10% say yes, and 90% say no. go vote on pulse. msnbc.com, we'll be back in a moem. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful. i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. 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[ male announcer ] you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and virtually no referrals needed. see why millions of people have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp. don't wait. call now. donald trump's three adult children are also listed on this transition team as well as his son in law jered cushner. but, now we got this formalize copy going out with a lot of suspects that'll be holding the transition team. mike pence will take over. i want to bring you to our national political correspondent post. >> explain the potential for conflict of interests or is this nothing in. >> i actually think that they are even though they are publicly they are on the team. the fact that first family and first families to be it is no unprecedented for them to have an influence on some of the key appointments. when ronald reagan was elected, his wife nancy reagan was one of the key voices in bringing in an outsider, jim baker, worked in the primary as chief of staff. there was a big battle going on between the sort of reaga reagan -- the pragmatist. what a whether their names are on this list or not? we knew that the trump family is going to have a big say in the shapes and administration of this. >> if hillary clinton were elected and a transition team was put out, we saw her daughter or bill clinton's name on there or brother's name on there, that's hillary clinton's brother. would that be a shock to folks? >> i think that her brothers aside, i think that there is nobody who does not think that bill clinton and chelsea clinton would not have a say in these appointments. they are formalizing something that anybody who's watching this campaign would know is going to happen anyway. the trump children, for instance, had a lot to say as he was switching campaign managers and changing up his team several times during the campaign. >> yes, and obviously, staying nimble and fluid has worked in a situation where people believed it to be impossible, it actually worked. do you think as your colleague with your colleague, of the biggest day of barack obama's biggest legacy maybe the -- we are seeing the power of the dnc. everybody is talking about the award on the democratic side now. >> the fact is over the last eight years the democrats came in with almost 30 governor ships and they are now down to 15. republicans have more. they are pretty close to the highest in history. the state legislatures have been designa decimated and state's party are not functioning as well as they should. the big question is whether you should be doing this kind of, all the people running for chairman and stuff like that when the party is really very much in mourning. >> we shall see now. keith ellison and martin o'mall o'mall o'malley. we'll continue to watch how it shapes out. >> there is news everywhere. >> yes. >> thanks so much. good to see you. i want to give you a quick recap of what we learned at this hour. this team includes his adult children, we see eric there and don jr. and cushner, the husband of ivanka trump. >> we have one last look at the responses to our pulse question for today about trump being able to deal with this divide, can he do it? >> 10% say yes and 90% say no. the pulse is live, check it out. we are back after this. all finished. umm... you wouldn't want your painter to quit part way. i think you missed a spot. so when it comes to pain relievers, why put up with just part of a day? aleve, live whole not part. painter: you want this color over the whole house? all right, we have today's veterans day. there is president obama's final veterans day. he laid a wreath and made a few suggestions how americans can honor our veterans everyday. >> on veterans day, we acknowledge humbly that we can never serve our veterans quite the same way that they served us but we can try. we can practice kindness and pay it forward and volunteer and serve. we can respect one another. we can always get each other's backs. >> all right, we always get each other's back. we'll continue to watch how this plays out. it is a busy week. there we have governor mike pence celebrating in indiana at veterans day. vice president elect has been named as the chair of the trump's team. a big thanks to all our arm forces. have a great weekend, my colleague, kate snow , is here o pick things up. >> hello everybody, i am kate snow. it is friday. mike pence as thomas just said is now leading trump's transition team taking over for governor chris christie who has been on the lead since may of this year. lets get right to it. lets get to halie jackson, she's covering the trump's transition down at the white house today. this is sort of a surprise on a friday afternoon to hear that there is new leadership of a transition team >> i will say this, kate. there is some expectations as we talked about it this morning. we'll be seeing some names revealed and why is that? it is the natural flow of what we expect to see three days out from the new president elect trump being elected by the nation. the other part is they
the other part of the story is, frankly, what an uninspiring campaign hillary clinton ran and what an uninspiring candidate she was. there are six million missing votes the democrats will have to figure out, how did she get six million fewer votes than barack obama? that's part of the story as well because we're focusing on this weird bizarre story of donald trump not really noticing that hillary clinton had failed to give voters any reason to vote for her and to a certain extent she was kind of the white noise and as the intensity picked up and robert costa saw this when he visited wisconsin how much the trump vote was motivated by the dislike of hillary clinton and the fact is that, you know, by the end of that campaign a lot of people were willing to hold their nose and vote for donald trump but she was not able to turn out her folks and, by the way, donald trump ran more than 70,000 votes behind senator ron johnson, think about that. republican vote in wisconsin. >> charlie sykes out of wisconsin. nicolle, last word, where's your party right now? >> someone asked me the opposite question. this is connected because i think what the republicans have to figure out is whether they want to set him up to triangulate. their arms to him and try to share a common agenda or do they want to leave donald trump as a jump ball? he is the president-elect. if they want to get business done they have to sort of not wipe the slate on his past transgressions but at least move the conversation to a policy arena where there can be some consensus because i think donald trump correctly presumes he owes the republican establishment nothing and if he has an agenda that he can get done with democrats, such as remaking trade deals with say a bernie sanders as partner or -- you know, he has no allegiance to either side so donald trump is the jump ball. if he has priorities, he'd be perfectly willing to cross the political aisle and work with a democrat that's willing to work with him if the republicans start by saying no way, no how. >> to our panel, mark, robert, charlie everyone is spent, everyone's exhausted, thanks for staying up late with us, we truly appreciate it. we had a lot of splaining to do, as a great man once said. when we come back, the role of the american women in this election. what happened with women and what happened to women as a result of last night's election, the 11th hour continues. >> right now i'm scared. i really don't know what to think because i don't know when i'm going see my parents again. i just hope that donald trump, um, helps us citizens. >> diversity is what makes us, it's what we are. so i just feel like he's going to ruin that. >> we want things to be, you know, white male, rich guy nation and i feel really vulnerable. rich. bigotry and oppression and misogyny and racism has won in our state and nationwide was deeply upsetting and traumatizing to me. >> did someone say we were two nations? donald trump won this race without winning women and without winning minorities. let's talk about it, nicolle wallace remains here with us and i also want to bring back to our broadcast heather mcgee, president of demos action, a progressive advocacy group. heather, what happened last night. >> ever since lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act, no majority of white voters has voted for a democratic president. and that's something that a lot of folks in white liberal enclaves don't actually really sort of absorb as a fact. but this has been a 50-year beautifully executed southern strategy to link otherization of people who are not white with all of the economic problems in the country and, most importantly, with the sort of idea of big government. and in some ways, donald trump -- and it's usually been subtle, ronald reagan perfected the dog whistle talking about welfare queens, donald trump turned the dog whistle into a megaphone and he just came out and came down those stairs and said "mexicans are rapists and criminals." it really is shocking and i thk for many of us who work in multiracial spaces and who do multiracial advocacy and organizing, this is a moment when a lot of white americans are saying this is a conversation we need to have amongst ourselves about how someone who was endorse bid the ku klux klan could have won the majority of white voters. >> and nicolle, this was the path that no one believed was possible because it would require exactly what heather is talking about. >> not only that it wasn't possible but why would it be desirable? >> why would you want to run a party and win without women and minorities? women make up 53% of those who vote in a presidential election. no model prior to trump's win had it feasible to win with shrinking numbers in any democrat graphic group, latinos and african-americans, and he did that. the conversation about race should be the first priority but the second or third should be a conversation about the cultural divisions and if there are walls up in our country they are sort of walls around the coastal elites and the way they think and what is really felt as a slur when we talk about flyover nation. we have serious cultural divisions, people know our national newscasts come from manhattan and they think what do you know about my life and that was, again, not putting it on par with how important this conversation is kbuz r because people are scared and afraid but there was also a conversation to be had and some understanding about how the republican party especially grew separated from its own voters. >> there's also the class conversation, heather. i found it interesting, j.d. vance has written this beautiful controversial book, he grew up in ohio, went to -- was deployed to iraq and the marine corps, ends up at yale law school. it's culled "hillbilly elegy." so the east coast media types who have no real connection to america there's some place west of the jersey turnpike, they were summoning j.d. vance to speak about this but it's the folks who keep our streets safe and fight our wars and fight our fires and a class, a socioeconomic class that has risen up in serious numbers here tonight. think we talked so much about the white working class and donald trump and white men that we need to look at the data from last night. white women voted for donald trump by 10 points. so it was not just -- so the gender gap that happened was because of women of color and i also want to say that i grew up in the midwest. i work with a woman who was also from middletown, ohio, where j.d. vance is from and she wrote a book about the working class that came out around the same time and her thesis is that there's a new working class in terms of who is making up the new working class, it's women, immigrants and people of color. >> very diverse. >> i think we have a lot of myths in this country. is he spun a lot of those myths but the people who keep our streets safe, the people who see our communities well are also women and people of color and immigrant so the shared leadership of this country is what's contested right now. it was a symbolic vote for many people who cast that vote, one out of four trump voters, according to exit poll, didn't think he was qualified to be president. was going to be president, but they somehow got it into their lot of people in this country are very, very scared for their children and for their lives. >> that's going to have to pass as the sentiment we'll end this conversation on. thank you very much for coming in. nicolle, thank you. i happen to know how late you were at work. it was a long one. another break for us. we'll talk about how people are placing this in the long history of the united states and the history of our presidential elections when we continue. to tell you here that we're following these live protests in cities across the country, new york, upper left, is starting to dissipate but others are just getting started. we have michael beschloss standing by to talk to us about the history of what happened last night and we're also going to tell you about a big change in midtown manhattan with the new president-elect. stay with us. >> i know how disappointed you feel because i feel it, too. and so do tens of millions of americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. this is painful and it will be for a long time. but i want you to remember this -- our campaign was never about one person or even one election. it was about the country we love. >> someone pointed out hillary clinton wore the colors of mourning today but her remarks were very well received, as were the president's. to put this in perspective we call upon a wise man, as we always do, presidential historian and author michael beschloss actually here with us in new york and not in a box from washington. >> where we're knees and feet and everything else. >> that's exactly right. >> for all the people walking around today. there are republicans, but there are mostly democrats thinking what just happened, how did this happen, how are we going to go on? talk them through a moment like this in american politics? >> well, i think one way is i sure wouldn't predict it but, you know, some presidencies that began in a way that you expected to -- that you expected to unfold a certain way they look very different in history. ronald reagan, many of those who voted for jimmy carter were horrified, not, perhaps, in the same way they are with donald trump right now by the end of the 1980s, ronald reagan was the man who did an awful lot to end the cold war and do some other things that democrats did not expect. >> is there any other model for a man who came completely private sector, no political or civic experience prior? >> that's why we're having such a hard time, because one thing that both voters and historians all have to do, we're always looking at past record to give us an idea of how a person will behave in the future and with donald trump, you know, we don't know all that much about his business career. there's not a long record in congress or as a governor so this is much more uncharted territory and i think to some degree that's one reason why some of those people on the streets are nervous. >> i guess the last non-politician was eisenhower. and i was guessing last night that in realtime he was the last celebrity, though vastly different. he had won the titanic struggle overseas. donald trump is the first pure celebrity, really. >> i think that's right. and the other thing, you know, you and i have talked about this, too. eisenhower had been in the military but huge leadership experience as a general and also dealing with a lot of politicians, presidents, and in congress. the thing with trump is, is he going to pull off these grand plans while really having had almost no political experience? >> you have faith, i assume, in his running mate, governor pence, in the checks and balances, even in a country where suddenly we wake up and we have single-party rule. what did the framers say about single-party rule. >> well, james madison was nervous about that but he also helped to build in certain safeguards to make sure that things didn't go too much off the tracks. and i think trump was recognizing the fact that he had certain deficiency. that's why he put mike pence on that ticket. he knew he didn't have washington congressional experience. he knew he needed some link to at least the recent traditions, the republican party and for republicans who are nervous i think that should be somewhat calming. >> and you and i both know, or at least we think, tomorrow will go well because both men will make sure tomorrow's meeting goes well. >> i think both of us would make huge bets that tomorrow everyone is going to be saying amazing how well president obama and president-elect got along, almost seemed like best friends, how much the two first ladies got along in a way that 48 hours ago you never would have dreamt. >> we'll end on that. michael beschloss, what a thrill and honor it is to have you to be able to talk to our resident author and presidential historian, thank you so much. >> right back at you, brian, thank you for jg me. another break and when we come back, the changes afoot in the nation's largest city because it is suddenly home to the a couple of things here before we go on the 11th hour, or whatever hour this is where you are. this is seattle, just one of the cities where we've had protests tonight. we've had police choppers and tv news choppers up and aloft in the skies over so many cities this evening, again, mostly peaceful protests but a lot of these have come out of nowhere, thousands of people here in new york just appeared out of nowhere after a long march. there's portland. a lot of people in the bay area tonight. for a lot of people this election hasn't gotten real yet but on the web it sure is beginning to look real. the trump/pence ticket now has a web site. this is a dot-goff. it is greatagain.gov. there is the logo, president-elect donald j. trump. that's real. the nypd and secret service have a real task ahead of them as trump tower is right smack dab in the middle of mid-manhattan. that's tiffany's on the left and the police barricades were up for the whole campaign but now cement barricades are going up and trucks full of sand sitting outside to prevent attacks or terrorism. and there's this for the airspace over new york, a notice to airmen -- and they still call it airmen -- from the faa showing midtown manhattan, a flight restriction that expires 11:59, right before inauguration day when john f. kennedy gave a freaking terrifying speech to >> tonight on "all in" -- >> donald trump is going to be our president. >> making sense of the most shocking event in modern political history. >> we are now all rooting for his success in uniting and leading the country. >> tonight, the twilight of the elites that brought us here and the terrified millions on the wrong side of trump's america. then, the resistance. >> not my president. >> not my president. >> as the establishment is dealt a fatal blow, who leads the next era of opposition? when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight the nation and the world are still reeling from the most shocking election result in american political history. for the first time since the founding of the republic, the american people elected a president who has never served in any kind of public capacity either in the government, military or anything else. someone who has trampled on some
the very lively crowd so far. here's senator cotton addressing a question from the audience on immigration just moments ago. [ crowd chanting "tax return" ] >> by the way, they're yelling "tax returns." that's a crowd maybe republican, maybe democrat, maybe progressive. we don't know. but they're yelling they want trump's tax returns. that's not what tom cotton wanted to have that meeting about. mi meanwhile, similar scenes playing out at republican town halls across country. >> the last i heard, these coal jobs are not coming back and now these people don't have the insurance they need because they're poor. if you can answer any of that, i'll sit down and shut up like elizabeth warren. >> when you tell me that you're going to take care of me when i come home, no matter what my injury, you have failed, sir. >> two things i want to correct that you said. you may have said more than that wrong, but i can't verify it. so here. >> it's not fake news. i listen to trump lie every single day. >> you guys just want to investigate everybody. >> you guys wasted a lot of money on benghazi. waste a little on trump. >> in fact, senator, we should all have good health care. >> taxpayer funds ought not to be used for abortion service. i stand for -- >> alternative facts. >> let me tell you something you're really not going to like. you want to hear this. hold on. you're really not going to like this part. the president, under the law, is exempt from the conflict of interest laws. he's exempt. >> a lot of boos out there. you're watching, by the way, grassroots resistance at the door steps of these events where protesters have mounted demonstrations outside as well as inside and while the issues in dispute are nothing new, mainly real kitchen table issues like health care, these groups are voicing their concern in a way that's hard to ignore for anyone. "the new york times" reports that for some, it's become so heated that, "many republicans have chosen not even to hold events at all. wary protests might greet them." last night president trump tweeted, "the so-called angry crowds in home districts of some republicans are actually in numerous cases planned out by liberal activists. sad." hillary clinton also weighed in on the protests of these meetings saying, kbt if you can't stand the heat, get out of the congress." that was a old harry truma li. this comes as the conservative action conference gets under way in washington today. one year after mr. trump as a candidate canceled his appearance, the agenda in 2017 now reflects the new nationalism that his campaign heralded. as the "washington post" affirmed today, "the conservative movement in america now belongs to president trump." joining me is john braybender, republican strategist. president of the progressive policy group, demos. trip gabriel have covered the town hall events for "the new york times." tripp, the hearings are held by members of the house, members of the senate, mostly republicans we're talking about. who is out in the crowd making the protest so loud and so effective so far? who are they? >> they're constituents in the districts of the congresspeople and the senators in the states. you just showed 2,000 people or so in arkansas. those were, you know -- >> locals. >> yep. >> they're not as we used to say in the '60s are the bad people, the outside agitators. they're not that. >> they're inside agitators. >> how do we know about the groups like indivisible, that group, i've been reading their material. thought it was fascinating. just read this. maybe you should achnswer this, heather. "if a small minority in the tea party could stop president obama then, we the majority can stop a petty tyrant named trump." pretty clear voice there. >> this was a guy -- this is what's amazing about this, it was basically a google doc, turned into a pdf and been downloaded over a million times. >> these instructions. >> these instruction. in some ways it's open source to what we all should know, how to be effective citizens and have our voice heard by our representatives. so it's basic tactics about how from inside folks people used to be congressional staffers saying this is what counts. it's a phone call, not a petition. it's an in-person meeting. here's how you frame a question well. we should all know that. democracy shouldn't be a spectator sport. because of this administration, it is not. >> one purpose, get your voice heard on issues like you want to keep obamacare, something like it. the other might be you don't like big business tax cuts. we just saw that down in arkansas with tom cotton's group, they want trump's tax returns out. they just want it because they have concern that progressive interests in that. that's also according to documents i've read to embarrass the republican member of congress for his positions or her positions. explain that part. >> will, i think -- >> to hurt them. >> yeah. >> snis tthis is the thing you o imagine how fragile members of koc congress are, spend time with donors and walking the halls in d.c., they don't get a ton of face time in between elections with their constituents. they know if they have a viral moment where, you know, they can catch someone in a lie or flatfooted, it will be spread beyond the town hall. >> a member of congress. let's take a look. here's some more from senator tom cotton's town hall happening right now. this moment happened a minute ago, a voter confronted the senator about the affordable care act. as i said, health care. let's watch. >> i could tell you three members of my family, including me, that would be dead, dead, and homeless if it was not for aca. i am angry constituent. you work for us. i got a husband dying and we can't afford -- let me tell you something. if you can get us better coverage than this, go for it. >> john brabender, this is strong stuff. i do agree with what heather just said, most members of congress survive for deck aiade office, the only people they have to deal with are the few activists on their side who share their philosophy, if they're right wing, they're right-wing supporters and the people who give them money to get re-elected, talk to a few tv interviewers, they're back in two years later. this is opening up something noi noisy, john. what do you make of it? >> i applaud anybody who will go to a town hall meeting, they're great americans because they're participating. this is more like a support group for those who lost the election. they're all standing up saying obamacare, obamacare. let's be honest that there wasn't a single democrat that ran for the senate or the house that ran an ad saying i voted for obamacare. why? because people wanted to get rid of it. donald trump won on saying he's going to get rid of it. he won pennsylvania, wisconsin, ohio, all these states with a lot of democrats because he said he was going to get rid of obamacare. and so understand, this is not a cross section of america. this is a lot of progressives who are now unified because donald trump unified them just like president obama and hillary clinton unified the conservatives. >> what's bottom line on these meetings and this noise we're hearing and the excitement in the crowds? i'm seeing people -- i know it's dangerous for any politician to challenge an individual member of a town meeting because the crowd there who came there to make noise, to be truthful, to make their voices heard, don't want to hear some politician telling them to shut up. because they're really saying that to everybody. how to you handdo you handle the a republican? this is an impressive group of grassroots -- you can say they're liberals and progressives. they are. they're local. they have the local accent. they seem lthey ought to be at these meetings. >> i believe they're local, i believe it's organized. i think, congratulations to those organizers, that what they should be doing. this is the new world of politics, get rid of one election, not like everydy takes a breath. this is about the 2018 elections. let's not lose any doubt about that. and this is going to continue on both sides. i will say this, though, when conservatives and, frankly, blue collar democrats see this type of action from the progressives, all that does is inspire them to want to vote for republicans in 2018. >> i don't -- >> what do you make? do you think that bounces the other way, there's a reck shay he ricochet here? i don't think they get mad at people asking about health care. that's not bandit behavior. that's i need health care for my three family members who would have died without it. how can you be mad at that person? >> i think we at our peril we in the political world minimize this to republicans and democrats and progressives. this woman said i would be dead without health care. >> yeah. >> this is the bread and butter stuff. now, our country does not pay a lot -- a number of folks didn't know the aca and obamacare were the same thing. what they do know -- >> i remember that. >> for once in their lives they have a tangible benefit that changed their lives and here the republicans have been saying for eight years basically they want to take it away and they have no replacement. that's real life. we can't make it just about partisan politics. >> let's talk about the politics -- >> that's wrong. they havencan't take it away un there's a replacement. >> tripp first, then to you. it seems to me the logic of people that are putting these demonstrations together, making a point of getting people to come out of their homes at nighttime, most people would rather stay home, cook dinner, watch a little tube, go to bed. get people to show up somewhere at a strange place, hard enough to vote -- i embarrassed. they're showing up. they believe they can move something in history. they can go to a preg republreg republic and say, buddy b careful here. you're going to pay a price speaks they're trying to peel the republican members of the house away from trump and what he's doing. there's a lodglogic to it. >> yeah, john is right. this is about 1202018. in off-year elections, democrat, the constituency does not show up. if this kind of furor continues not just this year, into next year and the year after that, this is exactly what the democratic party is going to need to flip some seats in the house of representatives. i'm not sure tom cotton is not -- >> let me go back to brabender, what do you make of the women's march? a lot of this started with the woman in hawaii, wasn't a bunch of lefties per se or people who raised money by getting people jacked up, it's a woman out in hawaii, a private citizen, a civilian, if you will, who said, you know, what i don't like this guy, trump, i'm going to make some noise, how about we women get together? all of a sudden a million women are marching through washington in the most joyous days for progressives in years, includes the hillary campaign and -- you're laughing but it's true. >> that's fun ny. >> a lot more positive than defending a candidate they didn't get too excited about. my question is, aren't the republic chance a little worried the grassroots things will catch on by next november big-time? >> here's where i think republicans have to be very careful. that is to just ignore this. for example, we keep hearing at these town hall meetings they say republicans are going to fake take away health care. i don't know where anybody is getting this. they're not taking away health care. they're taking a system that's imploding, come up with a system that's more affordable, gives better care. if they let the message and branding be we're taking away health care, we're going to fame a fail and lose in 2018. the key is understanding what people are saying, having a good answer and not necessarily criticizing them for participating because like i said i think they're great americans for taking the time out of their day to show up for the town ham mell meeting. >> many said the anger toward republicans is a progressive version of the tea party. jim demint, current president of the heritage foundation, rejected that comparison yesterday because he said the protests are organized. however, he also acknowledged these confrontations may hurt the republican agenda. here he is. >> greta, it's not like the tea party, i was going through this document today. indisvisib indisvisible. really well financed, well organized. buszed around to different town halls to disrupt them. i'm concerned that all of this pushback has delayed the repeal of obamacare and certainly other agenda items that need to be taken out. >> on the other side of the political world senator bernie sanders rejected comparisons to the tea party. in an interview earlier this month, here's senator sanders. >> it's not a tea party because the tea party was the centresse funded by the billionaire koch brothers family. this is a spontaneous and grassroots uprising of the american people. >> you know, sometimes i think we make a mistake in journalism of asking people on the hard left or the hard right for a straight middle of the road objective answer. bernie doesn't want to have anything to do with the tea party. will to say the koch brothers owned them all. grassroots republicans hate taxes, middle class people, regular people, who hate big government. they don't need to get funding from the god damn, any right-wing group. bernie won't admit that, it's a big conspiracy to him. in the same way jim demint doesn't want anybody doing his thing, right? come on. there's a similarity here. it's called grassroots anger at the way things are going. >> well, "new york times," colleagues and i attended four town halls yesterday, louisiana, florida, iowa as you showed a minute ago, tennessee where i was. none of us saw any buseses >> this busing -- i think republics love ttalk about busing. >> mid '60s. >> wouldn't you like -- do you think jim demint ever saw a bus? do you think any had any evidence there was a bus? the idea, they do this with voter registration, illegal voting. oh, they're riding around in buses dropping people off, same people voting in all the places. they have this image in their head, right? >> yeah, because frankly, they're afraid of democracy. listen, we live in -- excuse me -- >> by the way, stop right there. that was brilliant. excuse me. go ahead. >> we live in a very divided country, right? i mean, you know, president trump won the electoral college by virtually a handful of votes. he lost the popular vote. the biggest mobilization in the history of this country. >> don't put it down. don't put it down. he carried states, real states like wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, ohio. that's not a handful. >> by not that many votes. right? i think that there is a -- >> does this get you a better night saying stuff like this? he only won by a handful. >> it's true. >> hillary is up in chappaqua, he's in the white house. >> a third of young people voted for a third-party candidate. we are right now at a moment of great political -- >> you teach them -- >> alignment. >> you teach them, it ends up being binary. where a all the young people? in the end in november, the first tuesday after the second monday, inevitably, it comes down to a binary choice. and if you want to have your vote count, pick for the one you want to win the presidency. >> well, that's why we have to look at the tea party. the tea party was started out as a grassroots movement, i agree, but then it did get electoralized with a bunch of hard money. i don't think we're going to see that on the left. i don't think we're going too see to see tea party primaries in the same way. >> we'll see if some of the godfathers come along. anyway, thank you, john brabebd bender, heather mcgee. tripp. john, thank you for putting this perspective, a lot of help there. tonight at 10:00 p.m., join me along with brian williams and rachel maddow for a full two-ur special, we examine the first month of the trump presidency. this is going to be some unpacking job, what happened in 3 d 33 days. coming up, president trump said he inherited a mess from president obama. the economy he took over was on strong footing, don't you remember? there's optimism on wall street, the markets continue to climb to record highs. can mr. trump deliver on his campaign promise, to me, the only one that really, really matters? jobs. real jobs. plus what happens when you have a town hall with your congressman and he doesn't show up? mr. toomey, where are you? happeni happening more and more across the country as members of congress duck their angry constituencies. they can run but can't hide. the "hardball" roundtable with a look at the good, the bad and the ugly of donald ingi it . finally mlet me finish with trump watch tonight. this is "hardball" where the action is. fees? what did you have in mind? i don't know. $6.95 per trade? uhhh- and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $6.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. we got some breaking news to report tonight. president trump just rescinded the rules that allow students to use the bathrooms of their choice while at school leaving it up to the states to decide how to interpret federal anti-discrimination laws and determine whether students should be allowed to use the bathroom of the gender they identified with and not the gender they were biologically born with. pete williams is with us now. pete, explain all this. >> reporter: two moint points a this, chris, one is the practical effect. the practical effect in the short term is none because the letter the obama administration sent out last may to public schools saying you could lose your federal funds unless you let students use the bathrooms that match their gender identity. that letter was almost immediately put on hold by a federal court. so even though it was issued last may, it has never had the force and effect of actual education policy. but in the long run, it's a big shift from the obama administration's position, and the real question here was, you know, title 9, the law that says that schools have to provide equal educational access for men and women, this was the one that basically revitalized women's sports, the question is, does that law cover transgender rights? it says you can't discriminate on the basis of sex. the department of education's position had been that gender identity amounts to sex. it's the same thing. tonight, the trump administration has withdrawn the education department policy on this. it say s we want to study it more, they felt the original guidance that came out last may didn't get into it. and in the process, they say, while we're withdrawing the guidance, all schools must ensure that all students, including lgbt students, are able to arn and thrive in a safe environment. they stress in this letter that even though they're withdrawing the administration guidance from a year ago, that does not leave students without protections from discrimination, bullying or harassment, chris. >> wow. we'll learn more as time goes on. thank you so much. nbc's pet williams. we also learned today from a senior white house source that president trump will issue his revised executive order on immigration. early part of next week. next week. probably the middle of next week. that order was initially expected this week. we'll be back right after this. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm from all nations. it puts a hunger in your heart to want to know more. that has everything to do with the people in here. their training is developed by the same company who designed, engineered, and built the cars. they've got the parts, tools, and know-how to help keep your ford running strong. 35,000 specialists all across america. no one knows your ford better than ford. and ford service. right now, get the works! a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more -- for $29.95 or less. i'm raph. my name is anne. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up, because we're here, we're here, and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. the stock market has hit record numbers. as you know. and there has been a tremendous surge of optimism in the business world. we've withdrawn from the job-killing disaster known as trans-pacific partnership. we've directed the elimination of regulations that undermine manufacturing and called for expedited approval of the permits needed for america and american infrastructure. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump last week in his press conference, boasting about action he's taken, actions he's taken to improve the economy and create jobs. over eight years ago, president obama was handed an economy that was truly in crisis. last month, he turned over a stable economy to his successor, don't you know? everybody knows this. in his first full week in office, president trump held meetings in the white house with corporate executives, manufacturing ceos and labor union. executive orders cutting regulations, withdrew from the trans-pacific partnership as you heard him say, moved ahead with the keystone pipeline and promised millions of new investment in infrastructure spending. since his inaugution, the markets have reached record highs. now it's time to deliver an economic growth and his campaign promise which is real jobs. stephanie ruhle, msnbc anchor. mike mcmanis met with president trump last month. mr. mcmanis, i want to get to you because i want to talk to a real person about real jobs. what do you think is the timetable for the president to get going on infrastructure spending? getting money from moving the tax money back home from overseas, squeezing it out of perhaps entitlement savings. in any way, whatever way he does it, getting money to spend, capital to spend on creating big job, creating projects like fixing railroads, bridges and perhaps building new rail lines. >> i think the timeframe, chris -- thank for having me back on -- is as quickly as possible. the country needs to continue to work as quickly as possible in this direction on the failing roads, bridges, the dams that we're seeing in california. takes more than one person. i think senator schumer is a very good adversary and very good partner in this specific think. thing the problem is the republicans in congress and i think the president may have to go to mitch mcconnell and twist arms on that side of the aisle there. >> political, i want to get to the politics first. we'll get to stephanie in a minute. the politics are this. he's not going to get a united party behind him on the republican side. they're tight fisted about none. that's why they're republicans. they don't spend government money. they're trusted to spend it because they don't. he can't just go to mitch mcconnell and say please give me 60 votes to get something going here. he's going to have to go to the other guys, through chuck and the rest of them, dick durbin and nancy pelosi and steny hoyer. he's going to have to get them to release democrats to help spend some money so you guys can get some work. how's that going to happen? >> i think it's going to happen because its politics. politics 101. we got a lot of senate members up, democratic senate members up that are defending spots they have to defend. there's some horse trading that's got to go on there. it's politics 101. he needs to get right to what you saw in the previous segments of the town halls. he needs to get to the people and say this effects you locally, these bridges, these dams, these waterways, these airports affect your way of living. he needs to use the bully pulpit and get right into the congress and get bipartisanship on it. >> thank use, sir. let me get to stephanie. i want a big deal. i want to see him bring trillions of dollars jooeoverso tucked away. spend some money, capital spending. he has to actually spend the money on actual construction. not paying off interest groups. now the democrats are not particularly good at protecting money that way. republicans are good but they don't do it. how does he put together a real program that gets this country moving again like kennedy said, get it moving again? >> let's look at the markets for an example. >> they anticipate he is going to do it. >> president trump loves to say, you mentioned it in your intro that president obama handed him a pile of garbage. he absolutely didn't if you look at the economy. 4% unemployment. think about college-educated people, they're almost at full employment. so president obama handed him -- >> how many have barista jobs? no, seriously. >> some have barista underemplo? >> underemployed is a big issue. >> these are people who would like to have a bigger job, tougher job, take what's available because they care about their families. they do it. they take the looks that available. a lot of people want to work 30 bucks, 40 buck, want to make the money. >> reporter: look at the disparity between ceo pay and worker pay today it has never been greater. you have people with two jobs saying i can't make ends meet, i want something different, i'm going to vote for trump. >> i'm in the market sh, everybody is in the market in some way, 401(k)s. going way up 20,000. >> here's the point. you said everybody's in the market. not everybody is in the markets. many of donald trump's supporters are not in the market. they're looking for a change. those who are, animal spirits are out. president obama handed a slow and steady economy in large part because he put so much cushions -- >> okay. you're getting my attention. animal spirits are out? >> animal spirits -- >> what's that mean? >> this means investors are saying, great, deregulation. >> the bullish market. >> cutting taxes. remember, elizabeth warren having the position she had over the last eight years, ceos didn't like that. they didn't want to be called fat cats. that regulatory overhang, whether president trump dlelives or not, he has said to those ceos, i want to help you cut taxes, do great things. >> back to the question, are they confident he's going to do what he said? >> right now they're believing it, but remember, the market can turn on a dime. you can sell. buying the market isn't like building a plant. building a plant is saying, i'm confident. >> okay. let me ask mr. mcmanus, how long are you guys going to wait for action? >> well, we'll wait as long as it takes. i think we're missing a point here to the previous speaker there, on pipelines, chris, 6 0% of the cost of the pipeline isn't the labor, isn't the pichs, isn't the materials. it's the permitting process. it's the lawyers that are being tied up in court. it's all about that. so 60% of that, you cut that part away, you attract the republicans and you attract the democrats. you get the regulations down on the permitting process. 60% to d a pipeline is everything but the pipeline. i think that's where savings is. that's where the savings is. >> it's a great point. we shouldn't look at regulation as a black or white, good or bad. dodd/frank, it's not about ripping it apart. it's about tweaking it. >> you know what trump says, say yes or say no, stop muddling along with a big yellow light, doesn't get anything done. >> he says that, he's a guy who negotiates, he talks tough then he does soften up. >> okay. you took a shot at the lawyers, mr. mcmanus, on behalf of the working guy, that will be very popular message. i hope you succeed. i'm rooting for you. please keep coming back. mark mcmanus. >> i will come back. >> thank you. stephanie ruhle. up next -- my colleague -- up next, what happens when you try to organize a meeting with your congressman and he won't show up? 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joining me, howard fineman, global editorial director for the huffington post." elizabeth dennis, pittsburgh native, organized a constituent town hall because senator pat toomey or congressman keith rothfus wouldn't do it themselves. howard, i got to start with elizabeth here. >> please. >> it takes a lot of guts and citizenship to do this. >> absolutely. >> tell us what you're aiming to do in terms of -- it's going to be i understand this friday night in pittsburgh. >> yes. it will be this friday night from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. and what i'm aiming to do is i would love it if either the representatives attended and beyond that, i'd like to spread the word about the messages that the constituents would like to give their elected officials and hope at in the future, the officials will hold regularly scheduled town hall meetings. >> what issues did you recommend they bring to the table? did you suggest any? >> i shared a few from the indisvisible guide which i know has been brought up in previous segments and i would be happy to talk about as well as a few issues that i feel are of concern. with these issues, i have shared the event -- >> what are the issues you care about just so people know what -- >> sure. >> yeah. >> okay. i care about affordable health care. i care about comprehensive immigration reform. i care about black lives matter. i care about the -- oh, gosh, so many things. >> it sounds like you're a progressive. is that fair to say? >> yep, but that wasn't -- i am a progressive personally but the motivation for organizing event wasn't a progressive agenda so to speak, it was because i believe that representation is a crucial part of a functional democracy. >> i agree with you. >> and the ability to bring grievances and redress grievances with our elected officials is isa fundamental pa of that. >> thank so much. i got to go. hold on. i want to bring howard in for some reporting. howard, put this in a reporter's context. >> well, i know what a professional, you know, hardboiled, high-paid organizer looks like and elizabeth isn't one of them. she's grassroots pittsburgh and i know it because that's my hometown, too. and the point here is that senator toomey can avoid doing what senator cotton is bravely doing right there and is necessarily doing, not having town halls, but i think eventually that will catch up with him and local congressmen in western pennsylvania. if two things don't happen over the coming months and year. if donald trump is unable to deliver on his economic promises to pennsylvania, which is all about pipelines that the pipe fitter guy was talking about. all about coal, using more coal, using more -- digging for pipelines, laying more pipelines. that's going to be hard to do. he made big promise in states like pennsylvania, ohio, michigan and so forth. he's got to deliver on them or senator toomey's going to be in real hot water. and also the affordable care act. the republicans have to say, as john brabender was saying earlier on your show, what they're going to improve the system. not just remove the one that exists. if they don't do those two things, if donald trump can't deliver on those two things, if the republicans can't deliver on those two things, then the ducking and dodging by the republicans now are going to have greater consequences later. right now, it's early in the ball game, chris. we're only a couple months into the cycle of 2018. but come next year, it's going to be big. >> thanks so much. the grass is always greener, politically, howard, you and i know that. the other side always looks good when we're stuck with this side. >> elizabeth, congratulations, should should get an award for being a great american for doing this. people got to get off their butts and go to meetings and make some noise. the country is not going to take care of itself. we're going to come back here in a moment with breaking news from the white house this hour. president trump rescinded the rules that allow transgender students to use the bathrooms of their choice while at school. it will be up to the states and school districts to interpret federal anti-discrimination laws and whether the students should be allowed to use the restroom of the gender they identify with -- not -- just the restroom of their biological gender. more on that as we take a closer look at president trump's first month in the presidency. the good, the bad and, yes, the ugly. we have all the bases covered tonight as we examine what this president has and hasn't accomplished since taking office. you're watching "hardball" where the action is tonight. ugh your . introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your sympto. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist. ♪ so this year, they're getting a whole lot more. box 365, the calendar. everyone knows my paperless, safe driver, and multi-car discounts, but they're about to see a whole new side of me. heck, i can get you over $600 in savings. chop, chop. do i look like i've been hurt before? because i've been hurt before. um, actually your session is up. hang on. i call this next one "junior year abroad." um, actually your session is up. we need your password so we can lock down the system. my password? yes, sir, we need your password. the password that i use? yes, sir, your password. there's been another breach! sir! right. okay. i-h-a... ...t-e-m-y-j-o-b-1. ihatemyjob1? wanna get away? now you can with southwest fares as low as 59 dollars one-way. yes to low fares with nothing to hide. that's transfarency. sfx: clap, clap, ding welcome back to "hardball." january 20th, of course, donald trump stood on the west front of the u.s. capitol, he put his hands on two bibles, two better than one, and took the oath of office. and 33 days later that has been some wild ride. let's watch. >> this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. >> do you think that talking about millions of illegal votes is dangerous to this country? >> no, not at all. >> without presenting the evidence? >> many people feel same way i do. it's not a muslim ban but we're totally prepared to work it out very nicely. you see it at the airports, you sea it all over. it's working out very nicely. >> as of today we're officially putting iran on notice. >> the action taken in yemen was a huge success. >> i noticed chuck schumer yesterday with fake tears. i'm going to ask him who was his acting coach. "the new york times" wrote a big long front-page story. it's a joke. where are you from? >> bbc. >> here's another beauty. the press honestly is out of control. the level of dishonesty is out of control. to be honest, i inherited a mess. it's a mess. at home and abroad. a mess. you look at what's happening in germany. you look at what's happening last night in sweden. sweden. who would believe this? sweden. i turn on the tv, open the newspapers and i see stories of chaos. this administration is running like a fine-tuned machine. >> my favorite. anyway, late today, some breaking news. president trump rescinded the rules that allow transgender students to use the bathrooms of their choice while at school. we'll be taking a closer look at the president's first month all together tonight at 10:00 eastern on a two-hour special here on msnbc. it's going to be a hell of a two hours. right now i'm joined by tonight's roundtable on "hardball," montel williams, former talk show host. naval intelligence officer. nbc's katy tur. trump's campaign, by the way, nobody did it better. jonathan, o ppinion writer with the great and flourishing "washington post," in a nose to nose battle to the finish line with "the new york times" these days and also a msnbc contributor. i want to start with snajonatha. he's dying to say something good about trump. here's what i want to do. this is going to be a summer hill. wide-open school here, right? what can you say about the first month of donald trump's presidency? flat-out. >> chaotic. horrendous. unfocused. undisciplined. you want me to keep going? i think -- >> did he say i think before he thought -- you just say i think. was there a thought behind this first month? was there a rational choreography to it? >> i cannot see any evidence that there is any rational choreography to anything that he's doing except he had a bachbl bach basket of campaign promises and -- >> a basket of deplorables perhaps. >> i didn't say that. a basket of campaign promises he said he was going to take and executive order after executive order -- >> seems like steve bannon said now you're going to do this you promised, going to do this, you promise zb promised. >> you put out an executive order. >> he didn't want to be accused of saying one thing and doing another. got into office, went one by one on his major campaign offices so far, signed executive orders. now it's up to congress to fund them. if they don't do it, he can say, listen, i did what i said i was going to do and this is what happens when you put things in government. congress is not working. don't blame me. blame them. >> montel, your thoughts. give me some deep thoughts now about -- you've been thinking about this. i talked to you before. >> i'm a guest, i've kept my mouth shut. i look at the television and i watch reporting and i blow up. i call people. then i write op-ped pieces. and i'm thinking in terms of what he said yesterday about the fact everybody's jumped aboard. he 100% decrying any form of racism. well, if he was, why do we not see him standing on television saying we are going to use the power of my office to hunt down everyone who turns over any tomb, or any grave, any gravestone? i'm going to hunt down every single person who attacks or has filed a false complaint against any synagogue in america. he not doing that. >> he doesn't want to shake apart his coal wligs. >> 25% of his voting group understands that they agree with him and all the nasty rhetoric. you got to remember something, very recently -- >> so the dog whistle was heard by the dogs. >> yeah. the campaign is all about protecting america. let's remember something that nobody has reported on yet. up until miami, or orlando shooting, there were more people killed in this country by white separatists and cops k s killed. he's now going to change the office that goes after terrorist attacks and call it the office -- >> why do you think he's doing that? >> because, again, he doesn't want to -- >> offend. >> -- offend that side of the -- of his following that right now wants him to be more anti-everybody. look, i jump aboard this not because i'm trying to say one, we start with muslims, now we're with jews. tomorrow it's blacks. already -- >> he started with blacks. birtherism. >> you're right. sorry. started with blacks. now all of his rallies, recently tl there were people who were handicapped. >> let's go to my point here, how much of he -- how much of him is show? in other words, i wondered about the decision in the ninth circuit to say this is motivated by anti-muslim sentiment. i don't think he has any sentiment about anybody. he's all about trump, getting ahead where he wants to get, biggest guy in the history of -- every table, every restaurant, every kitchen table is talking about him. i think that's his goal, to be the biggest guy in the yuuniver. >> part of me wants to say he's 100% show but i know a lot of folks who know donald trump really well and, you know, i do these check-ins with them, tell me about who he is, what does he believe. >> sure. >> do you think this is fundamental to his ideology? when you talk about liberal causes, gay marriage and whatnot, they'll say, no, he doesn't really care. there is a threat in there about protecting, quote/unquote, america. and protecting the identity of america. >> does he mean northern europeans? is it ethnic? >> i will let the audience decide what they think that that means but i think it's clear. i -- >> it's clear? i'll let them decide but it's -- >> the rest of america -- >> i second -- i stand with katy. >> listen, i think that he has -- he has -- there's a reason he came out on the first -- when he announced his run for president -- the presidency, by going after latinos. there's a reason he did it. and he feels that immigration is undercutting american values, changing the face of america and he understood that people felt that way, too. wasn't just him saying it. >> yeah. >> so that's why he -- >> how much of this is -- guys, we're all in the business of communicating, how much of trump's success has been his ear, his ability to hear what works? >> 100% ofsuccess. >> jonathan? >> i will give him that but what he's hearing is some really ugly stuff. i mean, he's going after -- >> 45% of the american people buying the ugly? our latest polling here -- >> some are. >> he's at 42%. >> yeah. some are. you know, to katy's point, yeah, people are concerned about immigration and concerned about all of that and, you know, worried about the direction of the country and american values but american values also are being put to the test as we watch -- >> who's -- the pebest proponen you would put up against him for american values? who would be in the big debate. i understand what you're saying, i agree with it. who is out there with the showmanship, the communications ability to deliver the good message against what you think is the bad one. >> the one man who just left the office. >> thank you, well said. that is brilliant, actually. the round table is sticking with us, we already forget about -- i mean -- >> president obama. >> he should have been at the end of our lips. and a reminder, join us tonight with brian williams and rachel maddow and myself for a special two hour look at president trump's first month in office. it won't be any better than what he just said. we'll be back with the hits, the messes and the president's first days in office. what he's gotten right and wrong. trump the first month at 10:00 on msnbc. this is "hardball," where the action is. ♪(music plays) ♪ heigh ho ♪ heigh ho ♪ heigh ho heigh ho it's off to work we go here's to all of you early risers, what's up man? go-getters, and should-be sleepers. from all of us at delta, because the ones who truly change the world, are the ones who can't wait to get out in it. because the ones who truly change the world, customer service!d. ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? 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"i am going to protect and save your social security and your medicare. you made a deal a long time ago." now, it's congress' turn. tell them to protect medicare. >> right now, hourly and payday -- part day child care and child enrollment in cdc centers for our military soldiers has come to a stop. you can't drop off your children anymore for part time or day care because we can't hire new employees to fill some of the centers that are now having to -- >> that's not helping our troops. >> okay, peter popoff, rep him in the 1980s, televangelist who was caught conning his artist and exposed on johnny carson? he's back on b.et. doing the same thing, people are buying it and he has a bentley now. "gq" found him. >> according to the great "washington post," in president trump's first 34 days, he has said 133 false or misleading statements. >> well, i love the jacket. >> thank you. >> explain. >> it's brunello cuccinelli, it's a nice puffy coat cut in the form of a blazer. >> i'm just teasing. >> you asked because i told. >> you have the clothes. thank you, jonathan, katy and montel williams. when we return, we'll finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." liberty mutual stood with me when i was too busy with the kids to get a repair estimate. i just snapped a photo and got an estimate in 24 hours. my insurance company definitely doesn't have that... you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance that has everything to do with the people in here. their training is developed by the same company who designed, engineered, and built the cars. they've got the parts, tools, and know-how to help keep your ford running strong. 35,000 specialists all across america. no one knows your ford better than ford. and ford service. right now, get the works! a synthetic blend oil change, tire rotation, brake inspection and more -- for $29.95 or less. we have a question about your brokerage fees. fees? what did you have in mind? i don't know. $6.95 per trade? uhhh- and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $6.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. wheyou wantve somto protect it.e, at legalzoom, our network of attorneys can help you every step of the way. with an estate plan including wills or a living trust that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. trump watch, wednesday, february 22, 2017. well, tonight 10:00 we tackle the untackleable, trying to make sense of the trump presidency one month into its infancy. think about the rabbits he gave us to chase after. the bragging about the size of his inaugural crowd. who are you going to believe, him or the pictures of the empty space on the washington mall? or his dark claims of millions of illegal voters who gave california and, oh, yeah, new hampshire, to hillary. or the crazy grudge match he had with nordstrom's or last week's rant in the east room that had the whole room thinking we'd elected the headless horseman as our president. but the rabbit he is release with such regularity, the numbers, arguments, nordstroms, were only the bedlam backdrop. looking over the last 30 days you'll see headlines divided into two neat halves. two weeks of the muslim ban and the court fights over it, followed by two weeks over the russians and what kind of footsy trump and his lieutenants might have been playing under the table. finally the latest story, the town meetings, with them another disconnect. people showing up to protest focused on kachen table issues and still are. health care, for example, and the osteoporosiser issues they've ignored, donald trump on his way to the white house, the wall, the muslim ban. so many layers. so many compartments out there, so much to put together in our mind and say that's what happened this past month. do you think trump knows how crazy he makes our minds go? does he know how to mick things up so madly that only the hatter himself is setting the table? that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. a lot more at 10:00 with rachel and brian, our two-hour trump special. trump, the first month. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- welcome to the winter of voter discontent. as the resistance grows to a fever pitch, the white house resorts to alternative facts. >> just because they're loud doesn't mean there are many. >> tonight, the town hall phenomenon sweeping america. the republicans who won't face their constituents and what such enormous and early protests mean for president trump. then -- >> nothing was wrong with the first executive order. >> the white house gives up the game on the travel ban that started as a muslim ban. >> you're still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country. and filmmaker michael moore on his guide to resisting donald trump. >> quiet, quiet, quiet. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening fro
be followed. you should do your mission and follow the law. >> republicans across the country facing angry constituents. >> feels like we have a juvenile running our country. now the president is weighing in, suggesting the movement isn't real. plus, battling hate. president trump speaking exclusively to msnbc, and his strongest terms yet against anti-semitic attacks. >> i think it's terrible. i think it's horrible. >> but for many it's just not enough. >> his silence is poison. nothing the president today mitigated the cancer growing in the white house, it starts with him. >> we begin this morning with the immigration guide hraoeupz. a sweeping plan to potentially deport millions of people who are in the united states illegally. and it includes hiring up to 15,000 more i.c.e. and border patrol agents, and ends catch and release forcing people caught at the border to be detained until their hearing and deports anybody that has been here illegally for less than two years. we have the best team in the business, and here to talk about all of it, i want to start with kristin welker, and she is live at the white house. we just got the new immigration guidelines in the last 24 hours. walk us through how different are they from what we have seen before? >> reporter: the bottom line is it gives deportation i.c.e. agents more authority to track people, detain and deport them. you mapped out some of the key headlines, the fact there are going to be 15,000 more border agents, and they are going to be able to target not only people with criminal records, but with those who do something wrong, like get stopped with a traffic ticket if it deemed that person is undocumented, and it will deport parents that pay people to bring their children across the border, and this has some concerned saying this is akin to mass deportation, and the white house's argument is this is enforcing pre-existing law. it's not tkhaeupbgichanging the it's giving the i.c.e. agents to track people and determine that they can be deported. so this is a debate that is going to continue and it comes as we know the president also working behind the scenes on that travel ban that got blocked up in the courts. we expect that to be unveiled in the coming days. >> talk to us about the travel ban. when do we believe it's going to come out? >> we believe it could come out as soon as friday, steph. that's what we are tracking. we are told expect it by the end of the week. what are the key components of that. we will remember in the first version of the ban, and it halted travel good seven muslim-majority countries, and they are looking at the same seven countries, and one of the key differences, look for the language around syrian refugees, the first version of the so-called travel ban blocked indefinitely all syrian refugees, and i am told that language would be different and you are not going to see a blanket indefinite ban ofyrian refugees, and take a look at what one of the top policy advisers had to say about this. >> fundamentally you will still have the same basic policy outcome for the country, but you are going to be responding to technical issues. >> that was steven miller, and not jason miller. let me show you the latest survey money online poll as it relates to the order. 50% say they approve of the order, while 47% say they disapprove, so a pretty even split. i want to bring in our panel. msnbc chief local correspondent, and heather mcgee, the head of a public policy organization, and then jacob, we will get to you in just a minute. ari, help me out. there are a number of headlines saying mass doueportations coul be coming, and what they want to do is enforce existing law. >> there's nothing in the two orders that say there will be a mass deportation force like trump as a candidate spoke about. this is a bolstering and strengthening, and the previous administration had a very aggressive deportation policy, over 2 million, which was higher basically than any other administration. this follows on that and goes further and does water down some rights and does basically try to add some heft in agents, and we will hear from jacob in a moment from the border, and these orders have language that says let's count the aid we give to mexico and start building the wall. whether that actually happens, we will see. >> i want to talk about trump supporters, and by no means -- there's talk, are you normalizing president trump, i am not, and my mom and dad called me last night on this, and said, well, it looks like the white house looking to follow the law, so what is so reprehensible about this? >> two things. first of all, if trump supporters think he is doing what he said he would do, and this is why he got elected, and that's the question people have, if you are here illegally why wouldn't we be able to deport you, and what is going to be key here is how this is implemented, because it's one thing to say, you know, let's deport criminal aliens. there's a broad support for that. but what you are going to start to see now are the specific cases, the stories, and there will be faces and narratives and mothers and fathers, and you know, as the trump administration has already demonstrated, there's a gap with this administration between what their policy is and the way it is implemented. >> there was a study by prri that was released last week that shows a myth that we have that all trump supporters that want mass deportation is wrong, and not even in the reddest states, and none of the 50 did the majority of people support deportation as the answer. we have to remember that right now we have had more than a decade of people in this country clamoring for an earned path to citizenship, and instead what we have now is republicans having blocked an earned path to citizenship to people that have been here for years, and yes, it's a dough poeportation forcen my neighborhood you have vans that come by that have kids and their families, and there's terror in the community, and there's an earned path to citizenship that is nowhere on trump's agenda. >> the immigration plans are being rolled out as two top officials are heading to mexico today, and tillerson will be joined by homeland security secretary, john kelly, and in the meantime, paul ryan is leading a delegation to the u.s. and mexico border, and jacob is in the rio grand valley. what specifically is paul ryan going to be doing today? >> reporter: this will be his first visit to the border, believe it or not, and his office is being very hush on the details of it. but the local press is reporting that he will come here to the rio grand. behind me you are seeing the rio grand and you are seeing mexico off in the distance, and it's a public park down there which we were trying to get to, but they kicked us out, and we believe he will also be going there, and he will be taking an aerial tour of the area in a helicopter, and he will go to a holding facility where immigrants are detained as well, and we will visit near to where we are where traffic goes in and out, and last year at least this was the busiest sector for illegal border crossing, so this is the place to come to visit. he will be tagged along with fellow house republicans, and they have a lot to talk about. a bit of color from the city as we walk around and i talked to people at the hotel and a couple of others, and they said there's a campaign on the mexico side because of trump's policies called adios mccallen, and business owners notice a differce, a steep drop for people that go to the courtyard marriott has seen a steep drop, and they wonder if it will last. >> how about rex tillerson, what are they doing today? >> reporter: they are not coming here, and they are going mexico city, and they are expected to talk about trade and security. we know last month the president there cancelled the visit to come to the united states and meet with donald trump, though they had a phone call which has been widely reported on. we don't know too much about their visit, but we know they have plenty to talk about. we will take a break. next, republicans earn recess and they have had a rough ride home. talking to their constituents, testy town halls. they are getting an earful. up next, we're going to talk to two reporters who were there as voters spoke their mind in two town hall-style meetings, one in missouri and one in florida. you know how ge technology allows us to fix problems before they... they slow production, yeah. well, no more catchy business acronyms. wait, we don't need to smooch? i'm sure we can smooch a solution! we just need to "hover" over the candice, problem until... just let it go... hey, sorry i'm late for team building. smoooooooch! that felt right. what's wrong with you!? 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[laughs] ah... ahem... show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com. the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. why should americans trust you when you accuse the information they receive of being fake when you are providing information that is fake. >> i was given that information. but it was a substantial victory, do you agree with that? >> you are the president. >> you spent a lot of money to benghazi. waste a little on trump. >> don't appeal obamacare. improve it, for god's sake! >> several republican lawmakers were getting more than an earful from their constituents at town halls across the country, and they are expressing concern about using health care coverage if republicans repeal obamacare, and even mitch mcconnell faced tough crowds. >> now these people don't have the insurance they need because they are poor, and they work those coal mines, and they are sick and their parents are sick and they are not getting what they need. if you can answer any of that i will sit down and shut up like elizabeth warren. >> she did kind of drop the mike on that one. and president trump is reacting, but reacting to the town halls tweeting this. the so-called angry crowds in home districts of some republicans are actually in numerous cases planned out by liberal activist, sad. we have an incredible team of reporters covering these town halls. you were at a town hall last night with iowa senator, chuck grassly. how did that go? >> reporter: good morning. i am now en route to bettenville, arkansas, where there will be an event tonight. and it's funny you mention donald trump's tweet about liberal activist. these are in rural republican communities where there are democrats and independents coming out and voicing their opposition to donald trump, and that's where chuck grassly stood his ground and he has been in the senate for many years, and what he was having to field was resentment for donald trump, and talking about betsy devos, and he stood up and there responded to questions, and the problem for him is that first man you showed was offered tums to get through the next four years, and he said there are three or four health care plans in the works. >> it may not be available for me, and the insurance companies can deny me, and that's why question, are you going to allow that to happen? >> i don't see that could happen, because when you are go out to cobra, you will immediately go and buy insurance. >> if it's there and they allow me to buy it. >> reporter: the rublicans are having a tough time delivering what the agenda is in congress, and tonight marco rubio does not have an event in tampa, and some are saying it's a empty chair event because marco rubio will not be attending. >> let's take you to waterloo, iowa. republican senator, joani ernst. >> you saw there was over well pheupg evidence that a foreign country was meddling in our elections and democracy -- [ applause ] >> this is a red state. this is trump country. how contentious did this town hall get? >> very much so stephanie. ruckus, rowdy, all of those adjectives apply, and the town hall for senator grassly that was just talked about, and this is reminiscent of the tea party rise, and many people were shouting, your last term. people were talking over each other and talking over senator ernst yesterday, very passionate. her response to the question about russia, you heard the question earlier, she told the audience that she has said over and over again, that russia is not our friend and she went on to say she contacted the president last week telling him he needs to stand up to president putin, and at that point the man that asked the question, a veteran from iowa city told her to say it louder. >> a veteran from iowa city. did you hear that? i want to get my panel's take on this. a veteran from iowa city. president trump tweets, so-called angry crowds. when i hear a veteran from iowa city and look at those impassioned people, i think of the trump rallies. the fact that i am saying what could be going on in president trump's head -- but these are americans that most likely voted for him. >> it's the same mistake that democrats made in 2009 where they are trying to claim the tea party was astro turf and the koch brothers, and they ignored what was bubbling up out there. the republicans cannot make the same mistake. and you show up and stay light, and you don't walk out and get confrontational, but show up and do your job listening to these people, because at some point the republicans will have to address these concerns, and sway a lot of these fears. >> there's a high wire act they have to perform, and they have to show up and stay late and answer the questions, while the question, who they are standing behind, they are republicans and he is their republican president, is basically reigning on these people, calling them so-called. how does this work? >> it's not working. that's why about 200 republicans have been avoiding having any meetings with the constituents during the recess, which is a huge mistake and shocking. the psychology of donald trump to try and minimize this country, and how americans actually feel, it's something we have seen time and time again. the man lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes. the biggest mobilization in american history happen the day after his inauguration, and this was led by women sayinghese are not our values that donald trump does not represent us, and this is not going to go away. he got to an underwater approval rating faster than any president since they started counting. this is a minority president and is unpopular and pushing an extremely unpopular agenda. >> very effective in creating an enemy, so watch that he will continue to do that, and rather than, you know, basically acknowledge legitimacy of the grassroots movement, it's going to be left wing activist, unionist and acorn or whatever. >> why is it smart for republicans when they have been his enemy, why does it make sense for them to stand behind president trump and vote for him and support him when their constituents are doing this, and why does that make sense? >> they don't work for him, and they work for the people that show up for the meetings. that will be an interesting dynamic, when they come back to washington, and they will say this is what is happening here because, you know, politicians are politicians for a reason, w right? they know whether it's as tr astroturf or not. it's going to be interesting to see when they come back and start to share notes about this, and somebody comes in and says the white house wants you to do x, y and z on obamacare or this issue, you might get more pushback. >> that's giving republicans in congress too much credit here. it's not trump who wants to repeal obamacare, it's republicans that have been saying nothing but repeal it and have had seven years now to find a replacement and have no interests in doing it skprbg these are lives at stake with the health care and this is the broad cynicism when politicians are focused on the donors and special interests, and not the fact that working families can't get ahead. >> but paul ryan doesn't want to not give people health care. if he is a career politician and he wants to stay in office or run for president, he does not want to have in his legacy, i took health care from everybody, check it. that's not what he wants to do? >> sadly, that's what he has been doing for the last seven years. he wants to unwrite our social safety net. >> that's not true. >> that's his plan. >> no. no. >> that's not his plan. >> that's not his plan. let's be serious. >> i'm sorry, i actually have to really -- >> let charlie speak. >> paul ryan has been working on this for sometime. it's going to be difficult, and they are not taking away health care, and what -- >> they are not -- >> we're not talking right now about all the people who experienced these massive price hikes in obamacare, and there are people that have been hurt by that. at some point we are going to have to deal with both of those constituents, and do not pretend that obamacare is working -- >> we don't have more time for this conversation. we will have a lot more time to talk about it over the next four years or so. i have to take you to breaking news. we have people at standing hock that have taken to lighting fires. >> reporter: they are saying this is for cultural reasons. let me get out of the way and show you what is going on. it's deadline day today, and 2:00 p.m. local time and 3:00 p.m. eastern is when the national guard wants everybody off of this camp and they say they will come in and give people a choice, and can you get on a bus to bismarck or given a bus ticket home or on a bus to jail. some people say they will be arrested here in the afternoon, and we will have to wait to see how it burns out, and tents are burning here early in the morning. >> tense times. we are less than five minutes away from the market opening. another day, another stock market record. president trump set for another meeting with ceos tomorrow, and they will be handing in their homework. it's the 30-day anniversary of donald trump meeting with his manufacturing council. i'm all the techy stuff you got crammed into your brand-new car. i'm so sexy, you can't keep your hands off me. do it again. there you go... i can do whatever you want. except keep your eyes on the road. now would be a good time to have new car replacement. so get allstate and be better protected from mayhem, like me. it's good to be in good hands. c'mohappy birthday! i survived a heart attack. i'm doing all i can to keep from having another one. and i'm taking brilinta. for people who've been hospitalized for a heart attack. i take brilinta with a baby aspirin. no more than one hundred milligrams as it affects how well it works. brilinta helps keep my platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. brilinta reduced the chance of another heart attack. or dying from one. it worked better than plavix. don't stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. tell your doctor about bleeding, new or unexpected shortness of breath, any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. talk to your doctor about brilinta. i'm doing all i can. that includes brilinta. if you can't afford your medication, astra zeneca may be able to help. i did... n't. hat? hey, come look what lisa made. wow. you grilled that chicken? yup! i did... n't. mhm, lisa. you roasted this? uhuh... n't. introducing smartmade by smart ones. real ingredients, grilled and roasted using the same smart cooking techniques you do. you own a grill? smartmade frozen meals. it's like you made it. and you did... n't. welcome back. time for your morning primer, everything you need to know to get your morning started. we begin with rex tillerson meeting with mexican officials after the trump administration has sweeping guidelines to deportations. an american airlines flight in and out of philadelphia's international airport are taking to the skies again after computer problems force add ground stop. the airline says the airports underwent a routine power shutdown and american's computers did not come back on line. hundreds of residents in northern california are evacuating their homes again amid swift floods rising. crews rescued more than 200 people by boat. a newly released video shows harrison ford's close encounter with a jetliner with the airport, and ford mistaken lelanded on a taxi way instead of a runway. the los angeles lakers have a new man in charge of basketball operations. lakers' legend, the one and only magic johnson. he will be charged with rebuilding a team that is currently the third worst in the league. it's tough to be kobe bryant. the markets moments ago opened hot off the heels of another record high close, and at the same time president trumps is sharpening his token on the economy, and he will have a meeting with a group of ceos, and he met them with the first monday he was in office and tasked them to return in 30 days with a series of actions to help stimulate the american manufacturing system, and during the first gathering, he outlined several key goals. >> we think we can cut regulations by 75%. when you want to expand your plant, you will have your approvals really fast. we are going to be opposing a major border tax. we want to start making our products again. >> joining me now is brian sullivan, and alvi velshi. we look at president trump's 30 days, and we talk about mike flynn, and this faux pas, and this issue, and steven miller, and people say it has been disastrous, and the markets don't get offended and have no feelings and are simply based on what the policy promises can, man, they are ripping. >> they are ripping, because people are going to say things are disastrous in this day and age, and every 30 minutes there's a n crisis, and i hearsomebody say i live through hundreds of crisis and none of them happened. the market is a monster, and it's on monster to the upside, and we are hoping for tax reform and things that will stimulate the economy, and the economy was doing fairly well, so a lot -- >> bingo. >> right. so the idea there will less regulation and the idea there's more growth is helping, particularly in some sections, and it's not all sectors, and some parts are hurting. the headwinds we have to watch is the dollar is still strong, which is going hurt manufacturing. the fed will still raise interest rates, and we were all sitting around with people saying, we dodged the business cycle, and we learned the hard way that recessions do come around. >> we need to underscore president trump keeps saying president obama handed him a mess. he did not hand him a mess in terms of the economy. president obama was delivered a mess. one of his first executives orders was a rescue package, and he delivered steady, slow, economic growth, much of which is the cause of the regulation and this slow growth, so maybe it's time to dial it back a little bit. it's not fair to say, god, i was handed a mess. >> and you can put regulation -- which is a dirty word, and some love it and some hate it and some don't have an opinion about it, and regulations like building a home added 5 to 8% according to analyst to building a home, and 5% to 8% of the price you pay is just regulation. they are not trying to destroy this or that, but they are trying to make things more cost competitive so they can build more. that's the why. will it work? i don't know. >> a lot of the regulation that we are facing, some of it is not federal regulation -- >> a lot of it is state. >> a lot comes from lawsuits and things like that. we have to look at regulation and see what is holding business from hiring people and expanding. >> i want to talk about possibly working together. in the last eight years there was criticism, when elizabeth warren was in a more powerful position, there was not businesses for grow or thrive, and nobody liked the corporate fat cat, and tomorrow's meeting that president trump is having with the ceos, and now they have had this project for the last four weeks and they are going sit down and they are going to talk regulation, taxation, infrastructure, and something we have not heard from president trump yet, the workforce of the future >> that's the problem we have got, and the one thing we know, while we talk about a manufacturing crisis in this country, manufacturing increased throughout the entire recession, and it's the people employed to manufacture things that is not increasing, and one of the things trump tasked these ceo with doing is how they can goose their growth and profitability and jobs, and they have not been on the front end of creating jobs. >> i was saying it last time i was on, and -- >> only say new things. >> ali is great. never met him. if we lose 1 million retail jobs, and there are retailers who are experimenting with stores that have zero employees in the store. that's 1 million people. so it's great to add, 30, 40, 50,000 manufacturing jobs and i hope we do, and the fact that oil and gas have come back on, and those are jobs. but you can't ignore the big thing of automation. who is fixing that? >> that's why we need the ceo meeting to be an actual working session, not just a photo opportunity. >> why do we believe the people at the front of this, and i buy all my stuff online, but why the president and the ceos, neither of whom have done deep wiv-- >> ceos don't like people. >> that's not true. >> i am not knocking that ceos don't like human beings -- >> they don't like paying people. >> labor is the biggest cost of any company. okay? ceos who fiduciary duty is to maximize share holder skwral, and that's it. you need people, but at the same point, if you could have a whole robot -- >> you mean cheap people. >> i am ready to replace these two with a couple robots. >> they would be more efficient. >> smarter. >> would not take breaks or fall down. >> done with those two. next, the white house issues new guidelines on immigrant enforcement. the former mayor of los angeles will be joining me. nosy neighbor with a keen sense of smell... glad bag, full of trash. what happens next? 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>> no, remember, everybody that is here illegally is subject to removal at anytime, and that's consistent with every country, not just ours. if you are in this country in an illegal manner, obviously there's a provision that could ensure that you be removed. >> that was white house press secretary defending his boss's guidelines. i am joined with former los angeles mayor, and he's also a democratic candidate for california's gubernatorial race. thank you for joining me this morning. i have to get your response to sean spicer. donald trump has been very outspoken about being the president of law and order, so if somebody enters this country illegally, and is sean spicer right that the government has a right to have that person removed? >> they may have a legal right. that is a question of debate. the question is, do they have a moral right? the question is, should they deport 11 million people? no country has ever done that. according to the national academy of silences, immigrants, including mexican immigrants by the way, which they seem to focus on inproportionately, and the fact of the matter is most of these are working and creating wealth and contributing to the economy, and here in los angeles, the reason i am as outspoken as i am, and i see these people starting their businesses and having children here and going to school -- >> mayor, and here's the one thing i don't get. if legally the government would have a right to deport them, but not morally, are the laws that we put in place immoral to begin with? >> well, that's a good question. i can tell you this. it's immoral to divide mothers from their children in the way they are beginning to do now. there's been a lot of issue about whether or not this is consistent with what president obama or bush did. yes, both deported a lot of people. they focused primarily, though not always, on serious criminals. they have expanded the definition of a criminal offense to include crossing the border multiple times to come back to your family, to include using fake documents so when you are stopped at you are not deported, to include using driving without a driver's license when you couldn't get a driver's license. look, why don't we fix this broken immigration system, stephanie, both democrats and republicans agree it's broken, and instead of terrorizing families, and dividing them in the way they are doing here today and across the country. >> much of president trump's face, many who voted them, what do you say to the americans that say that mother originally illegally brought her children to this country, or to what president trump wants to go after, those who paid smugglers to bring their children here? yes, they came to pursue the american dream and give their children a better life, but what is the response to those americans that say i am an american citizen and i want a better life? >> first of all, he's dividing one american against the other. the fact is, as you said, these mothers are coming here to give their children a better life. the fact is, their children are going to school here and working here. they are not committing crimes in the way that donald trump would suggest. "washington post," the national academy of sciences have had an exhaustive study proving that, and he continues to argue that somehow they are disproportionately committing crimes in our country, and it's not true. and it's not true they are disproportionately taking jobs. the fact of the matter is, a long study, two decades worth indicated they are not taking jobs from most americans, that only other immigrants are impacted by them, and only to a certain extent. i think what we say to them, let's fix the broken immigration system instead of going into the communities the way they are doing in los angeles and across the state and the nation, and let's work together to make sure we are securing our borders, and we are certainly deportable serious criminals who commit violent crime, but not people who have done very little except to break our laws, except to cross the border. >> mayor, thank you so much for joining me this morning and sharing your thoughts. appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. next, after a week of questions, president trumps condemns anti-semitic acts in an exclusive interview with our own craig melvin. that's next. or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. find out how american express cards and services "best cracked pepper sauce" barbeque trophies: "most ribs eaten while calf roping". yep. greatness deserves recognition. you got any trophies, cowboy? uh, yea, well, uh... well, there's this one. "best insurance mobile app"? yep, three years in a row. well i'll be! does that thing just follow you around? like a little puppy. the award-winning geico app. download it today. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. . welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. we are talking president trump. jewish organizations are saying that the president's remarks against anti-semitic acts are too little, too late. the anne frank center published a scathing statement saying that trump's words are a band-aid on a cancer of anti-semitism. but according to trump and his team, the president is denouncing anti-semitism every chance he gets. >> will you denounce anti-semitism once and for all? >> well, i do all the time. i do all the time. i think it's terrible. i think it's horrible. anti-semitism is horrible and it's going to stop, and it has to stop. >> it's ironic no matter how many times he talks about this that it's never good enough. >> msnbc's craig melvin conducted that exclusive interview yesterday. he joins me along with my panel charlie sykes and heather mcphee. president trump did denounce anti-semitism yesterday. immediately after, sean spicer, he's done it. he's done it every chance he can get. that's not true. >> no, it's not true. we didn't get into it with the president there at the african-american history museum. that's why there's been a sfons what he said. folks following this know that that's not something that's true. he has not forcefully denounced it. it did seem as if he was prepared for the question yesterday. his daughter ivanka flanked him yesterday. ivanka tweeted about it the night before that interview. hillary clinton tweeted about it yesterday morning. we know how much time this president spends on social media. he was, i gathered, based on his response, prepared for the question. but, no, this is not something that had been denounced forcefully on a number of occasions. >> charlie, also you don't have to be jewish to have an issue with anti-semitism. so the argument, here's my daughter ivanka who is standing next to me. she has converted to judaism. has nothing to do with how you should treat fellow humans. >> no, it's like saying i'm married to a woman, therefore, i can't be sexist or something like that. and the reality is -- >> we know that's not true. >> for more than a year, donald trump has looked away, given the wink and nod to the alt-right. we wouldn't be talking this week about milo, known for his anti-semitic rants occasionally. we wouldn't be talking about these guys unless donald trump had enabled and empowered these folks for years. why are we seeing this outburst? i'm not saying donald trump is himself an anti-semite but he has clearly used and he has enabled these folks, and then there's a connection. his silence for all of this time has contributed to this and he's been feeding the beast, looking the other way and that one statement does not wipe it away. >> in january, there were 60 bomb threats called in to jewish community centers across the country. absolutely unprecedented. during the election, 800 different journalist s being th target of anti-setic tweets from steve bann's alt-right. he could have not issued a holocaust remembrance day statement that did not mention the 6 million jews who were killed in the holocaust. that is a trope of the far right neo-nazi ideology about what the holocaust really was. he could fire steve bannon who is a white nationalist who has given a platform to the white nationalist alt-right. he can say that the way he's defining who an american is in this extremely narrow way is, in fact, feeding into anti-muslim hate, anti-semitic hate, anti-immigrant hate. this is a real test of character. i think we've seen what the character is of this white house. >> will someone go visit that vandali vandalized place to see who did it? yes, president trump did denounce anti-semitism yesterday but this message we're hearing, too little, too late. >> i'd be surprised. i would be surprised if this -- >> but wouldn't that be what would solve it, to call attention to it? by not calling attention to it, silence the issue. >> if that is what you wanted to do. >> i don't think the president is anti-semitic. >> doesn't matter what he has in his heart. it's what he has in his white house. the people he has in the white house and the policies he's chosen to pursue. >> it's a wink, wink, nod, nod oftentimes. we've all covered politics long enough to know there are groups of people who responded and sometimes to fire up those folks, there are things you can say. sometimes to fire up those folks it's the things you do not say. and there are people in the game that are quite adept at that. >> i don't like any of it. we're going to take a brk. you know what you're going to do tonight? you're going to watch msnbc at 10:00 p.m. because chris matthews and rachel maddow will be there examining the first 30 days of the trump presidency. you do not want to miss "trump, the first month." that's right here only on msnbc at 10:00 perform m. ahh, sir? you the law? we've had some complaints of... is that a fire? there's your payoff, deputy. git! velveeta shells & cheese. there's gold in them thar shells. i've been blind since birth. i go through periods where it's hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. learn about non-24 by calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com. i really enjoyed this hour. why? because i have a terrific panel. thank you both so, so much. thank you for joining us. i'll see you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. and all day long on twitter. right now, my colleague, my friend hallie jackson, has more. >> hi, steph. thank you much. right now, we are talking about power to the people. you hear it there. fired up voters filling up town halls coast to coast. gop lawmakers on break getting anything but. if you could answer any of that, i'll sit down and shut up like elizabeth warren. >> and now more protests all across the country with millions at risk for deportation after president trump's tough new guidelines on immigration. the white house says it's just enforcing the law. all of it as the administration sends south two of the president's closest advisers. their mission in mexico? defrost that icy relationship. why a we are talking about all of this. peter alexander and kristen welker at the white house. kerry sanders in mexico city. we'll talk about what's been a rough and tumble past few days for congressional lawmakers. they are getting quite the welcome, you could call it, from their constituents back home. demanding answers on health care to national security and more. watch. >> last i heard, these coal jobs are not coming back and now these people don't have the insurance they