through the turmoil forced upon me by a system designed by the u.s. government to destroy my culture. i am finding my way back to the lakota way of life. i didn't know the medical words, so i called the problem what i felt it to be: the thick, dark fog. [slow electric guitar melody] ♪ - you're supposed to get-- look excited. [laughing] see? happy. oh, my god. it's a book. [laughs] it's not even the hardcover. - it's a start. - walter decided that he wanted to write down his memories for his children. and shortly into it, he reached a block where he had started talking about his boarding school years and he couldn't keep talking. he withdrew. he became very tearful. - my own children-- i'm estranged from them, simply because i never figured out how to be a father or even how to be a human being. and i realize that they didn't know anything about me, because i never talked to them about what i was. - it took us four years before we finally came to the end of what he had to say. - so when the roads are bad, you know they're not gonna come after you. trying to remember if this is the road here. i think it is. this is the old road that i followed. just one thing on my mind: just to get home, not get caught in between here and home. and i know i ran all day long, about 16 miles. the quicker i got home, the better off i'm gonna be. i knew they would take me back to school, but just being in that house for a few minutes, that was good enough. - this is a very peaceful place, and you can get spoiled living here. 20 years ago, a man in the community i lived in in connecticut started a clothing drive for indians on this reservation, and he said that they were dying of the cold and they were starving. friend of mine came to me all in tears, upset over it, and i said to her, "what do you mean? "what indians? there aren't any indians left." - like so many, i have lived a life blocked by fear, led by fear, and governed by fear, that was created in those childhood days. nightmares of the government boarding school, the loneliness, the beatings, they seem to be on my mind every minute of the day. i had been punished to instill a different way of life that i didn't understand, nor want it. - [breathing heavily] [grunts] - the government school had tried to force me to forget the lakota language, and i wouldn't do it. yeah, we had a deep sense of preservation for our culture, our language. so we would go and hide in order to speak lakota. if we got caught, they were allowed to beat us with whatever they could, but we took that chance. the lakota language is something that comes from deep inside of you. it comes from... how you look at things and how you see things. sometimes i feel like i'm not able to communicate with a non-indian. the lakota feeling is what forms my language. so i try to put that into the english language, but it--at times it just doesn't seem to work, and i lose a lot of confidence in myself. - that's fine. everything helps. we've been really busy with the holiday. - so this is where we need an interpreter. - okay. - thank you so much. - one night, i went to a 7-eleven store to pick up some things, and i passed by a rack of magazines, and one magazine fell off the shelf, and it had opened to an article about a man called walter littlemoon who had been helping his family and the people in wounded knee. so i bought the magazine, and i went home, and i called him. and since then, we've become friends. i learned of the living conditions out on a lot of our reservations, and it was all news to me. in march of 1985, walter drove across country with a friend of his. he spoke at the local library. we're just about in this little area right here. it's a 2 million acre tack that was given to us by the united states government. we had other ideas of where to live, but our ideas weren't that important, i guess. - after that, i-- we tried together various ideas that would be helpful for the people in wounded knee. in 1998, he asked, did i want to move out here and stay for a time and see if-- if this was where i wanted to be. and that's how i came to live with him. - if everybody gets a share. this boarding school experience had a-- did a lot more damage than we realized. we were made ashamed of our culture. we were called uncivilized. we were called savages. we were forced to submit to something that we don't even know and didn't even want. we will never be able to forget what happened to us. those memories will be with us all the time. - if you don't learn how to live with it, you just blank it out. you just-- and you don't talk about it. and then all of a sudden, you start talking about it, and you can't remember pretty soon, 'cause you blanked it out so damn many times, and, you know, you just-- you know there's something you want to say, but it's not there. - you know, back then, we didn't see it as abuse. we didn't even know the word as "abuse." [all laughing] - beat up. - we got beat for just about everything. got beat because you look like an indian, beat because you smelled like an indian. - said the wrong thing. - to me, it wasn't just physical abuse. it was mental abuse too. - oh, yeah. they got in there. - to me, what they were trying to do was turn us into a white man, but still, they couldn't do it. - come on, hootie. this is, uh--you probably hear it in the movies-- the sacred tree of lakota. that's this ash wood. it's a hardwood. and a lot of it grows-- that's what they used to make the bows and arrows out of a long time ago. yeah, they were pretty stout. but pollution has got to them, to where they're just rotted on the insides. this tree was here when i was a little boy. so if you look up that way, you see these little red-- those are plums, wild plums. i was the youngest of my mother's ten children. by the time i was three, all the rest were away from home. we learned to be lakota in the natural way, as easy as breathing. no one sat us down to preach at us. adults guided us as life presented different situations. the bright and positive memories of those childhood days had stayed buried within me for nearly 60 years. i had to remember and see clearly how i had been shaped and twisted, mentally and emotionally, by something outside of our culture. [children singing in native language] indian boarding schools were created by henry pratt, a military career man whose motto was, "kill the indian and save the man." he felt that by removing the children from the influence of their families and their tribes and forbidding him to speak any native language, they could be shaped into the image of the dominant society. - you either sent your kid to school or you could find yourself in jail. or the government would just take them and might tell you where they are, might not. and there was every imaginable abuse to getting these kids into these schools and keeping them there. - shortly after my fifth birthday, in 1947, a car pulled up to our home with two strangers in it. my mother was crying. she told me i had to go with the people in the car. i had no warning, no preparation. - what is this on the left here? - this is the boys' building. - was this here when you went to school? - no, this was a-- it's a different building. they finally stopped at a strange, foreign place with tall buildings. i was overwhelmed by strange smells, sounds of children talking and crying, and everyone speaking in a language i didn't understand. all of this stuff is new. even the old girls' building is gone now. i used to sit right here. now they got a bunch of buildings i don't even recognize. no, this girls' building is still the same. now, we can go along here. - oh, looks like we got a snowball fight. you ever do that when you were here? - no, they wouldn't allow us to play like that. got too noisy. we couldn't throw snowballs at each other. all the stuff like that, it was all forbidden. with all of this modern stuff, with all of these new designs, with all of the new buildings and playgrounds, that still doesn't change anything. i still hate this place, and i don't like it. and, you know, the sooner we leave, the better off i'm gonna be. - this is where they brought you the first day? - yeah. well, actually, they brought me right where that white pickup is. there used to be an old gymnasium there. and the buses would pull up like that and just dump you off there. within minutes, i was stripped naked and scrubbed with a harsh, yellow soap and a stiff brush until my skin was raw. - my older sisters went to boarding school, had their hair cut, so i wanted a haircut, and my grandmother said, hiya-- no. until i die, or mama die or daddy die, no. in lakota, she told me... [speaking lakota] nobody does that. you do not ever cut your hair. you can trim it, but you don't cut your hair until you lose a loved one. - and then they march you across, right through here. and then this--well, the builng used to be here, and that's where they'd cut your hair off, change your clothes, take your clothes away and give you old clothes. - i tried to run, but the matrons caught me and run-- they grabbed my hair by my braid and just cut it. - i started crying, 'cause, you know, i didn't give him permission to cut my hair. and i cried, 'cause i felt they killed my spirit. - all the thoughts going through my mind at the time-- now all i remember was, "who died? "did my mom die? "who died so they're cutting all of our hair? what's going on here?" - every time we tried talking about his boarding school years, he reached the same block. we went to his doctor at the v.a. hospital, and his doctor said, "keep talking. "as painful as it is, "the key is to keep talking. bring all those memories out." and he said, "don't be afraid "of any of the emotions that come with them. "go with those emotions. let those emotions come out." so we started writing down his memories. - the sound of a car, the smell of food, the crying of children: a lot of these things trigger flashbacks. emotionally, psychologically, you're right back at boarding school at five years old. - [screaming] - you never knew what kind of a beating was coming. - [grunting] - sometimes you'd get thrown across the floor, or sometimes you'd get hit with a book. sometimes it was things that we said. sometimes it was the way we looked at people. but just small things like that that never made any sense at all, but you got beat for it. - yeah, we got hit a lot, strapped, and mean things-- saying mean things to us, calling us names and jerking us around by the little hair in the back of your head or the ear. - usually, after the third hit, you don't feel nothing. and that's what gets 'em even more angrier, and they just beat you harder. you don't feel it. physically, you just don't feel it. you shut it out after a while. - you'd have to put your hands on the desk, and the desk lifted up the lid would lift up, and you'd put your books in there, and then it would come down, and that's what you would write on. well, you'd put your hands there, and they'd slam the desk down on your hands. yeah. - can you remember the day your mother came to visit you? - yeah, there used to be a tree right by this power line, and that's where i remember her walking from there towards the rail. it was a sense of familiarity, but then again, i didn't recognize--i couldn't quite make that connection. - you didn't remember who she was? no. - and that was after three months from home? - yeah. what happened to me, and it happened to a lot of other kids: the case of not recognizing your own parents. - [speaking lakota] - i just completely broke that connection. - as she was leaving, you did remember her, so something finally clicked in-- - yeah, it clicked in. so i ran down this way to try to catch her, but it was just too late. and i don't know what happened after that. i-i--up to this day, i just don't remember. but i knew that-- i told myself, "i'm not gonna forget anymore." [thunder rumbling] - walter kept talking. his memories would come out in fragments, so i'd write down whatever he said, and as time went by, we started cutting those pieces of paper and putting memories together that belonged together. - and then jane brought in a book: trauma and recovery, by--the author, i think, was judith herman. and this was based on the holocaust, but when she was reading, i was able to take out a lot of the words and replace them with the lakota, with pine ridge, the environment here. and it began to make sense, and that's when i realized that my mind lacked focus. it was fragmented. and i would change the subject to stay away from a lot of the pain. and i didn't even know where the pain was coming from. - i came to meet walter littlemoon and his wife jane through my work here at the victims of violence program in cambridge, somerville, massachusetts. when walter and jane walked into this building, central street health center, it was very clear that he was in a lot of pain. - this is a picture of my mother. this is the way she looked, as i remembered her, growing up. i don't remember exactly when this was taken, but this is probably one of the last pictures that we have of her, 'cause when my sister took all of these pictures, then her house caught on fire, and just about all of these pictures burned down. so this was her family, and these are all the older brothers. and this is moses. that's ben george. and this is me here. but this one is the last picture that we were able to salvage. this picture is about my mother and my father. i never knew my father. but this was taken somewhere in brussels when they were there with the wild west show. the thunder beings came and took my father home when i was six months old. [thunder rumbling] so this is where my father was killed on that day that my family had stopped here to rest. a single small cloud appeared in the otherwise blue sky. that stove sat right-- just about right here. and my mother and i were on this side. and i think my dad was sitting right here, right in this area. suddenly, a bolt of lightning shot down through the chimney, blew open the woodstove door, and struck my father dead. my two brothers were on each side of my dad but never got hurt. but it killed him instantly. as i uncovered the stories of each generation and added them to the memories of my life, i begin to realize that the trauma that we lakota have experienced for so many generations is a part of who we are today. even before the reservation was established, a lot of the wars or the massacres that took place, all of that gets passed from generation to generation through memory, genes, through behaviors, through flashbacks. we still experience a lot of the pain, a lot of those memories. and people want to know why they drink so much. people want to know why they are abusing their own families. - walter's experience embodies the context of intergenerational trauma. so you have a culture that's survived near-genocide on its knees, and then you pluck a child out of this family and everything that's kept them alive. there was no safe context in which to talk about the abuse and things that he suffered. you know, he had to keep it secret. he had to keep it silent. he had to bear it alone. there wasn't a place where these words were welcome. - ♪ ride, ride, over the big divide ♪ ♪ singing along to the song of the pioneers ♪ - surround them. fight wagon train. [whooping] - and every saturday, we would go into the theater. they forced us into these movies. we never had the choice. everything that we saw was all western movies, and it was always roy rogers, gene autry. [trumpet fanfare] - the cavalry's coming. - there was always the cavalry there, riding the horses. there was always the indians there. just before we went in, there would be somebody standing there, and they would say, "whenever you see the cavalry, you start clapping your hands "and you start stomping your feet. "if the indians get killed, don't say anything about it." - you know, down deep, you always wished the indians would win, and they never would, you know, 'cause the movies don't, you know, let you do that. - oh, yeah. - and you did a lot of cheering and stuff, you know, that the indians would win or whatever, you know. i can't even remember what movie it was. and that's what we did, is cheered for the indians. they marched us out of that theater. [all laughing] they come down there and got us. - yeah. - shined a flashlight on us and marched us out. - now, we're not here to fight the indians, as the custom's been in the past, but to make friends with them. - he don't know nothing about redskins. - no. - he's a good indian. - ain't no such thing. - we weren't allowed to talk. we weren't allowed to go to the bathroom. we weren't even allowed to buy popcorn. we just had to sit there. - ahh! - i didn't learn much that first year. all i knew was that i wanted to go home. vacation-- the end of the school year -- and you know your mother's there and there's gonna be something to eat and you can take your shoes off and throw 'em away, go barefooted for the rest of the summer. first thing you do is, you go check the water to see if it's warm enough to go swimming. so that was the best time. about the second or the third week in august, the whole community would just suddenly become a little bit more quieter. it was almost like a death in the community. no matter how you worked it, no matter how you looked at it, it always came down to the same thing: that we were leaving. - can you talk about bringing things from home to try and-- to school, in order to keep that link between-- that you could bring something from home, little things that would maintain that link with home that were important to you? - [crying] by the middle of the fifth grade, i decided i didn't want to go there anymore. i started running away. i'd run home, 16 miles straight across country. there was only one thing that always went through my mind: that was to get home, and that was it. it didn't matter whether i ran or whether i walked. i just knew the certain area, certain routes that we had to take in order not to get caught. and you run as far as you can and don't look back, 'cause there was always somebody that would be out there looking for you. - if you could destroy the indian society at its roots, which is the family, then you destroy the society. and children are the core, obviously, of any family, but especially, i think, indian families. - he had never seen children being beaten before by adults. in traditional lakota culture, your children are your most precious resource, and who would ever think to harm the children? - so i think we learned that it was okay to beat up on kids, and it was also okay to beat up on your next of kin, your siblings, or whatever. and so that behavior carried right into marriage. i know i slapped my wife around a number of times, but i've always felt bad afterwards. - when i had my own family, it took a long time for me to realize that... that all i did was punish them and discipline them. there was no love, no respect, no nurturing, no honor. - it didn't come from me naturally. that wasn't even part of me. it came from someplace. it came from here, the boarding school. - that whole trauma associated with shame about who they are, being told by the government, "you're woe than the rest of us. you're less than the rest of us." is it any surprise, then, that they become abusers? whether violent abuse, sexual abuse, psychological abuse, all of the things that were done to them, they're going to carry out on the next generation. - some of my former classmates committed suicide, some drank themselves to death, and others just gave up and didn't care whether they lived or died. he was trying to quit drinking. didn't have any help. so he committed suicide. these graves fill up so fast. i can't even remember whose those were. i survived seven years at the oglala community high school before my mother was allowed to transfer me over to the holy rosary, run by the catholic church in pine ridge. i lived day by day in a dark fog, governed by stern men in long black robes. finally, my mother was able to get me transferred again, to the community public school. i went there for two years, graduated from the eighth grade, and quit. our world on the reservation had become more or less meaningless. there was no place to go, nothing meaningful to do, no movies, no libraries, no public transportation, no jobs available to make a decent life. two months after my 17th birthday, i left the reservation. - were you in vietnam? is it vietnam or korea? - vietnam, yeah. yeah, that was-- to me, that was easy too, 'cause that was just like boarding school. - i think, yeah, the service was a little bit more better. - similar to that-- - yeah, i used to lay there at nights and listen to these guys cry, you know? "what am i doing here?," and such. and i'd lay there and think, "now, what's wrong with this, man? "we're getting three meals a day. they get us up and run us, you know." - get money. - yeah, and they talk to you. i said, "it ain't anything like boarding school." heck, there, they'd beat you. they kicked you out. you know? - seemed like, after vietnam, everything--every day was nothing but looking for drinks and staying drunk, landing in jail, getting out of jail, and that was the extent of my life. - hi, how are you? - hey, how are you today? something was wrong with me. i couldn't function like what i thought a human being should. i began to look within myself and get rid of the things that i knew made me feel negative, like drinking was one of them. that didn't fit into my life, so i had to get rid of that. - oh, this credit counseling workshop. that's something i don't understand. - why not? - well, you know, we don't have credit. [laughs] we never could get credit. first time i seen that sign, i thought it meant that maybe they'll teach us how to apply for credit. but it... i just don't pay attention to it, 'cause you can't get credit out here. - four days after christmas in 1890, gunfire rang out on the plains at wounded knee, south dakota. last night, near the site of that massacre, some 200 indians took control of two buildings. - the indians held ten hostages, and they said through a spokesman that they are willing to die if necessary to bring about federal actions on their grievances. - the indians are from an extremely militant group called "a.i.m." - a.i.m. leaders said they seized wounded knee to force attention on their charges of corruption and mismanagement in the bureau of indian affairs. - either we force the federal government to kill us all once again like they did 83 years ago at wounded knee, or else they come out and they negotiate and meet our demands. - this is the original site for the wounded knee trading post. it was here since i can remember. they destroyed everything in this store. that was destroyed out of carelessness. - a.i.m. leaders sent word that they wanted south dakota's two senators to visit them and a promise from the white house to honor all treaties with the sioux, treaties going back as far as 1868. - either negotiate with us for meaningful results, positive results, or you're gonna have to kill us, and here at wounded knee is where it's gonna have to happen. - this is where the old houswas. - so this was your first house you ever lived in, or-- - yeah. - what happened to this house? - now, this house was torn apart during the '73 occupation, and they used all the lumber to line the bunkers with. there used to be a catholic church up there, and it's no longer there, but that's where everybody was. there was a bunker up here that people--that's where they took all of the lumber. - there was an a.i.m. bunker up there? - yeah. - the occupation of wounded knee, south dakota, by militant indians ended today. the indians and their supporters put down their guns and surrendered to federal marshals and fbi agents. - then they left. what once was our wounded knee community was shattered. no trading post, no running water, no heat, no electricity. our people had to live the best way they could with nothing. - i thought the a.i.m. were doing us good. look what they did to us. - longstanding friendships and trust were replaced with suspicion and hopelessness. we were left alone to deal with our own problems as no help came. - the guys that came into wounded knee at that time were nothing more than just little bullies with guns. no, they promised, you know, many times they would rebuild this house, but they never did. just a lot of empty promises in it, and this is-- so this is all that's left, and after that, it just-- you know, they take something from you when your house is destroyed like this. over the years, i had sought out lessons in lakota spirituality, attended sweat lodges, saonills and st visions. yet nightmares of the government boarding school-- the loneliness, the beatings-- seemed to come back stronger. they seemed to be on my mind every minute of the day. my true sense of self was buried way down, deep inside of me. finally, a breakthrough in my understanding came when i sought counsel at the victims of violence program in boston, massachusetts. they gave me the name of what i was suffering from: complex post-traumatic stress. once my fear had a name, i could battle it and win. - walter's world probably became quite small until he was able to process and begin to reconnect with people. - i always had this need to help people. sometimes, growing up, i would go out and visit with elderly people, just sit around, talk to them. sometimes i would haul water for them or maybe bring in firewood for them. and it just-- it was a good feeling. so after i got out of the service, then i relocated to denver. - okay. - thank you. - thank you so very much. - eventually, i got certified as a alcohol and drug counselor, but that didn't fill in that void. - he had seen such a decline in this community which he had grown up in after the 1973 occupation, where people tended to withdraw, and they tended to mistrust each other and not work together like they had. - we had to be very careful on how we dealt with the people, 'cause that occupation had drove all of the people inside of their homes, and they wouldn't come out. - he had ideas that perhaps would spark more caring and sharing in the community if he held easter and christmas gatherings to bring people out of their homes and socialize together. he tried gardening ideas. he brought in rototillers. people donated livestock: chickens and goats, buffalo, all sorts of things. he was trying to ignite the atmosphere that he had grown up in to try to restore it. - walter, i covered, as you know, the takeover at wounded knee by the american indian movement and the response of the federal government, and i remember, aside from the crushing poverty, a pervasive sense on the reservation of depression, and it seemed almost as if the whole uprising and its aftermath-- with the people being hurt, some people being killed-- had stripped the people there of their self-respect, their self-esteem. was that the hardest part to overcome? - yeah, basically, we divided this up into three different parts, but every project that we've developed was more or less a setup for developing self-worth, self-confidence, a little respect, which, i felt that was completely destroyed. there was too much drinking. people were dying. there was a lot of sicknesses, and it was a case of slow starvation during that time. people were trying to survive on $54 a month. so we tried a number of projects. sometimes it was trial and error, but in the end, we still have a long ways to go. - life on the pine ridge reservation, in terms of pride, and really in terms of the quality of life, is better because of that man, ladies and gentlemen. [applause] - we tried everything to try to bring life back to this community. it seemed to have worked to a certain point. but i was hoping that it would catch on and it would go on by itself, but it never did. - it took us four years before we finally came to the end of what he had to say. and at that point, he was able, finally, to look at his whole life and see it in its entirety. and at that point, he began to feel peace. positive memories started coming to him, things that he had never thought about for years and years. it was as if, buried under all of the agony that he had suffered through as a child and all of the negative behavior that he had displayed as an adult, that buried under it all was the positive of what it means to be a lakota. - the fear created by those beatings is gone. the anger fueled by alcohol is gone. my mind is clear. even today, after so many years, the memory of the elders who raised me is strong. i see now that throughout the most difficult times, they walk straight-backed with clear and focused eyes. they had no need to beat their children, their wives, or each other. they had no need to shout in angry voices. they kept their homes neat, and the ground that they lived on was clean and free of litter. they were lakota, and they knew it deep in their souls. - it took a lot of courage for walter to come forward and tell his story in this book, to break this legacy of isolation. if you tell your story and you learn something from your life story and you can share it with others, that's how healing happens. - the more survivors that can speak, as far as their experiences, and tell that story, the closer we are to becoming who we used to be. [drumming, bells jingling] [chanting] [applause] - yeah, we'll be here till 3:00. this is my sister. that's my oldest brother. this is francis. what i know about brussels is just the stories that my mother told me. she never told us very much. part of our culture is, the mother does not tell the son anything. the father is the one that tells the son. the mother tells the daughter. but as part of the culture, our uncle steps in to fill the father's position. but he's never been to brussels, so we were lost there. that one--see my sisr being pulled into the picture. a lot of the pictures that we had from that time, it got burnt up in a fire. we only had one picture-- one family picture that was-- that we were able to salvage. so from that time up to the present, there's no information. - 2004. i had the opportunity at that time to buy about 150 indian artifacts. the guy that collected all the artifacts bought that collection in 1935 from the indians of the wild west show when they were at the world fair of 1935. so i found a few pictures, and the very first one i found was walter's family. i recognized immediately the two vests that i had. that was just incredible. i had a tv crew that stopped by because they heard about the story, and they said, "maybe we can fly with you to denver." i said, "should we drive to pine ridge?" thank you, sir. down this road and then-- thank you. - moses. - moses? - live up here. - yeah. we drove up to wounded knee, and we found moses, walter's brother. we are from belgium. - oh, belgium? - we are from belgium, and we are looking just for history. in 1935... - yeah? - there were chiefs that came to belgium for the international fair. and i got a picture here... - oh, yeah. - of joe littlemoon... - yeah. - with his family. - yeah. - is this-- are these relatives of yours? - that's my mother and father. - oh, really? - and my oldest brother, whose name is al, and then--aloysius-- and francis, wilson, and my sister, pauline. - this is history that we'd need. what boarding school had did to us-- make us feel ashamed, make us resent our culture for what it is. - thank you very much. i'm really happy that i found-- - so to overcome a lot of that, then this is the type of knowledge that i need to put it into the book and say, "we are people. we are human beings." - okay, well, thanks a lot for the picture. thank you for stopping by. - thank you for talking to us. - yeah. well, have a nice trip. - thank you. - you bet. we'll see you later. - the frosting on the cake today is this display here and meeting francois here. the history of our family is something that we've been putting together. that gives me the strength to stand up and walk a little bit more taller and be able to look at people in the eye and say, "hello, how are you?" and that's about it. that's what this means to us. to be a human being in our world, it means-- it means something big. that's-- it's almost like a title. you earn the right to be a human being. you're not born with that. you need a lot of respect. you need a lot of honor. you need a lot of dignity and a lot of compassion to reach that level of being a human being. it means something to us. today, i stand facing the sunset, where my lakota grandparents have gone home. i acknowledge their wisdom, courage, and generosity. i am grateful to them. through their efforts, i have dignity, respect, honor, and pride. i can face the future until i go home to join them. because i have remembered the lessons from my lakota elders, i am discovering who i am. the dark fog has lifted. i can finally hear the creator, touch the creator, taste the creator, and smell the creator. i see the creator. i am able to say, "i am lakota. i am a human being." narrator: for more information about the thick dark fog, visit n.a.p.t. online at nativetelecom.org. [singing in native language] major funding for the thick dark fog was provided by the corporation for public broadcasting. to order a copy of the thick dark fog, call 1-877-868-2250 or visit shopvisionmaker.org. >> garrison keillor: seamus heaney grew up the eldest of nine children on a 50 acre farm in northern ireland, his father a cattle dealer, his mother's family worked in the linen mills. when he was 12, he won a scholarship to a catholic school, learned latin and gaelic. over the years, his poetry has become enormously popular, especially since he won the nobel prize in literature in 1995. >> blackberry picking. late august, given heavy rain and sun for a full week, the blackberries would ripen. at first, just one-- a glossy purple clot among others, red, green, hard as a knot. you ate that first one, and its flesh was sweet like thickened wine: summer's blood was in it leaving stains upon the tongue and lust for picking. then red ones inked up and that hunger sent us out with milk cans, pea tins, jam-pots where briars scratched and wet grass bleached our boots. 'round hayfields, cornfields, and potato-drills we trekked and picked until the cans were full; until the tinkling bottom had been covered with green ones, and on top big, dark blobs burned like a plate of eyes. our hands were peppered with thorn pricks; our palms sticky as bluebeard's. we hoarded the fresh berries in the byre. but when the bath was filled we found a fur, a rat-grey fungus, glutting on our cache. the juice was stinking too. once off the bush the fruit fermented; the sweet flesh would turn sour. i always felt like crying. it wasn't fair that all the lovely canfulls smelt of rot. each year i hoped they'd keep, knew they would not. >>joanne: i am absolutely in love with spain and i'm not sure, is it the flamenco, is it the people, is it the food? i love all of it, it gets me so excited and you're definitely going to see that on today's show. i'm going to start by making a cold tomato soup call salmorejo and then i'm going to cook with my student juan and together we're going to make this fabulous lamb stew with chorizo and white beans and tomatoes, it's so fabulous and i cannot wait to cook that with you today. 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investigators accountable now. amazon, local leaders lashing out. amazon is out, ditching plans for a new headquarters in new york city and taking thousands of jobs with it. are certain lawmakers really happy about this? plus, neither red nor blue. worried about your green as the nation debt now $22 trillion and counting. you wouldn't know it with another presidential election coming. is this the national emergency everyone should be watching? "cavuto live" starts right now. in a fox news alert, we are getting word police will be providing new information on that deadly workplace shooting in aurora, illinois. the gunman killing five co-workers at the henry pratt manufacturing plant before police killed him. five officers also wounded in the rampage. what are investigators learning about the suspect? a press conference will be getting under way at the top of the next hour. meanwhile, to our top story this hour. i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto. president trump is at mar-a-lago after declaring a national emergency at the border and the lawsuits are already piling up. fox news is in west palm beach with the latest. phil keating? reporter: good morning, yes. those lawsuits filed by three texas landowners as well as an environmental group all protesting this border wall construction. the white house has indicated they fully expected lawsuits and are working on preparing themselves to handle them all. here in sunny south florida today, it's going to be a high of 80, just to make you jealous, and president trump left his mar-a-lago palm beach mansion early this morning and has now arrived at trump international golf club, where he's presumably hitting the links. air force one landed last night here in west palm beach around 6:30 p.m. the president has no public events scheduled all weekend long. earlier friday at the rose garden, president trump announced he was signing the budget deal, averting another partial government shutdown. however, also declaring a national emergency over the southern border with mexico. with that, he plans to take funds from other sources to get more money for the wall than the compromise legislation gives. >> what we really want to do is simple. it's not like it's complicated. it's very simple. we want to stop drugs from coming into our country. we want to stop criminals and gangs from coming into our country. reporter: the budget deal gives about $1.4 billion for border fence construction. the administration seeks extra wall money from here. $1.37 billion from homeland security, $600 million from the treasury, $2.5 billion from the department of defense's drug program, and $3.5 billion from d.o.d. military construction budgets. democrats are wholly expected to challenge this national emergency declaration in the courts. in this joint senate tatement, this is plainly a power grab from a disappointed president who has gone outside the bounds of the law to try to get what he failed to achieve in the constitutional legislative process. another challenge can come directly from california, the state which sees the biggest imprint of illegal immigration in their state. governor gavin newsom, a democrat, yesterday calling the border wall a monument to stupidity, but back to the lawsuit filed by texas landowners, eminent domain is absolutely going to be an issue in this whole deal, and the white house via sarah huckabee sanders yesterday, said they expected these challenges and they are preparing to defend them. back to you. charles: thank you very much. national border patrol council president brandon judd has long supported whatever action the president wants to take to secure our southern border. so what does he think now? he's with us. brandon, it's on, right, president trump finally invoking the national emergency powers. what do you make of the whole thing? assess where we are at this moment. >> well, i appreciate him invoking national security but what i'm really concerned about is i'm very concerned about the budget. i'm concerned with the provisions in the budget that allows for amnesty for those individuals that are even potential sponsors or household members of potential sponsors. if history is a guide, this is going to allow more unaccompanied minors to work their way up through mexico which is very, very dangerous. it puts them in the hands of smugglers and it's going to allow more uacs to come across the border illegally. if you look at people like congressman chip roy, who was a federal prosecutor, u.s. attorney, when he says there are some serious problems with this, we have to take a look at that and we have to be very concerned. when my organization is saying there's some very serious concerns with this budget, we have to be concerned with how it's going to affect border security. charles: currently, how are the border agents handling, you know, the situation, the spotlight, and even news of additional caravans heading our way? >> our agents are doing a great job, and frankly, that is one thing that i'm very grateful to president trump for, is i'm grateful that he's given us the morale boost that we need to go out there and do our job. when i put on my uniform next week, when i go out and patrol the border, i know that i have an administration that has my back that's going to do for my agents what's necessary for us to secure the border. so from that perspective, we're doing a good job, our agents are doing a good job. we just have to get congress to actually step up and do their job. in this budget deal, the republicans got played. charles: yesterday, there was dan crenshaw, representative out of texas, who i'm sure you know, put out a tweet saying if you could snap your fingers and make the el paso border wall disappear, would you. later on, beto o'rourke, senate candidate there, was posing that same question, saying we know 600 miles of wall and fencing have not made us safer. he would, if he could, snap his fingers and remove all of that. what do you make of that? >> that's dangerous talk. beto o'rourke is flat out wrong. if you look at the areas i have patrolled where we built physical barriers, they worked, it caused illegal immigration to go down exponentially and drug smuggling to go down exponentially. if you look at what we have done, again, using history as a guide, it tells us that these physical barriers are, in fact, effective and we need more of them. again, we need about 300 more miles of primary fencing and if we can get that, we are going to do a lot better job in fact securing the border. charles: thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: so was this move necessary doors it set up a slippery slope? here to discuss, run for america founder david bernstein, republican strategist holly turner and fox news contributor dineen borelli. one of the headlines i saw, it changed for the most part from mainstream media was that border apprehensions are at an all-time low but i went and looked at the data and they were actually referring to 2017. i don't know how they missed 2018 which saw a 16% increase. nevertheless, the idea that this was not an emergency and that president trump also is opening the door for future democratic presidents to abuse the system. >> well, that would be full well anyway because it's president trump. no matter what he says or does. i think this was a good call for him to call for this national emergency because this is about the safety and security of americans. the stats are startling. all you have to do is visit the website of the u.s. border patrol protection and look at the numbers of the drug traffickers, human traffickers, the number of arrests that have been made, women and children who are exploited. these are serious issues that are happening on our border and the president wants to address these issues. so he had to make this move because the republicans, they had two years to do this and they failed to make a move on something that is so crucial that's happening on our borders. charles: how did this become such an issue, the idea, the notion that a sovereign nation doesn't have the right to fortify its border and provide protection for its citizens? >> well, look, democrats are not arguing for the most part that we shouldn't have border security. i think there's a legitimate debate about how best to do it. the process by which we do it is important. this has been a bipartisan issue on both sides for a long time. i think the president's move here to say this is an emergency, there are a whole host of issues in our country that are an emergency, and it does set a dangerous precedent. we don't want to abuse this. this is on dubious constitutional ground. a lot of people's accounts, a lot of respectable legal folks say that. i think it does set a dangerous precedent that republicans are going to be complaining about, i'm sure, back on this panel if we have a democratic president in a number of years. charles: holly? >> listen, an emergency, it is. we have 70,000 people dying every year from drug overdoses, the majority of those drugs coming from our southern border. so to say that it's not an emergency is just fundamentally false. we talked about the angel moms that, i mean, they have lost their loved ones. in the past two years, there were 4,000 arrests of immigrants who are here illegally, were killing. this is a national emergency. i can't think of another issue that would be more important for the president to sign. look, if congress didn't want the president to have such broad measures when they passed the national emergency act in 1976, they would have put some very specific parameters around what a national emergency is. but they did not do that. they had the opportunity and they chose not to. and if they want to rescind it, they can. but the president has the authority to do this. charles: you know, one thing that bothers me is people who just are dead set against this, particularly in the media. they kind of focus on well, a place like el paso, the crime is low. take a look at the economies of san diego and tijuana after the wall went in place. look at how both sides of the wall thrived and it makes a better argument for it but no one talks about the interior of the nation. we have a massive drug epidemic in long island, new york. that doesn't get caught up or included in the conversation about securing our southern border. >> it's also known that you have ms-13 gang members in long island because they have been attacking and killing school children. and they are a threat to the neighborhoods and the society as a whole. but listen, this is about safety and security. i implore the democrats to look in the faces of these angel families, talk to these people and find out what they have gone through. what did they go through when they found out their loved one was killed, a, and b, when they found out it was at the hands of someone who should not have been here in the first place. they were at the press briefing yesterday. charles: listen, it was deplorable how the angel mothers and their families have been sort of dismissed by the media. when you say there are other national emergencies out there, you know, this is not something where you don't have to, you know, we can only do one at a time. there are 31 national emergencies in existence, some that go back 40 years. the idea that you acknowledge that we do want to have something done there, president trump wasn't necessarily asking for a lot. that was a $300 billion spending bill and $21 trillion economy. >> right. the problem exists on a couple fronts. number one, if the president actually wanted to build a wall to secure the southern border, he's going to need a lot more money than what he's put in this budget to do it. on the other hand, if you are actually talking about solving this problem, this is a problem that has always needed a comprehensive solution that's to the very good point about drugs getting into our country, fentanyl is coming in from china just as much -- charles: china sends it to mexico, then it comes through the southern border. >> the demagoguing this is a problem of some drug mules -- charles: isn't it interesting, even if none of that was on the table, the idea that we should have the right to secure our borders the same way every american has a right to have a lock on their front door, it just seems like a no-brainer to me. by the way, here's an interesting thing i read. with these national emergencies, they expire, they are supposed to expire every year. unless the president renews them. senate and house have to meet every six months to decide and consider a vote of termination. well, in 40 years, congress has never met once, not even once, let alone every six months, and that's why we still have national emergencies going back 40 years. but everyone is now worried about an abuse of national emergencies. thank you very much. fired fbi guy andrew mccabe says he and others discussed ways to get president trump out. oh, they are trying to walk that back a little bit but is the damage already done? democrat mark pence says yes. we will see what the former special counsel ken starr thinks. both men are here. we are about to get an update on that deadly workplace shooting in illinois. what investigators are learning about the gunman. after months of wearing only a tiger costume, we're finally going on the trip i've been promising. because with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. ♪ so even when she outgrows her costume, we'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure together. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only when you book with expedia. on average, we'll live move more in eleven homes. in the world. and every time we move, things change. apartments become houses, cars become mini vans. as we upgrade and downsize, an allstate agent will do the same for our protection. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands? charles: the shooting in aurora, illinois at the henry pratt company building leaves six people dead, including the gunman and fire police officers injured. authorities now revealing they believe the shooter, an employee there, was about to lose his job. so was this a case of workplace violence or was it something else? fox news correspondent jeff paul is in aurora with the latest. jeff? reporter: yeah, charles, right behind me, that's the manufacturing facility where investigators say the suspected gunman walked inside with a handgun and began shooting. in fact, there are still several police officers here piecing together what's being described as a very large crime scene. take a look at this picture. this is the suspect, 45-year-old gary martin. they say he was an employee at henry pratt and was about to be laid off. they believe he showed up to work yesterday shooting and killing a total of five of his co-workers. one other co-worker was injured as well as five officers who were shot. those officers were some of the first to get to the scene and were running inside hoping to save lives. folks who live in the area near where the shooting happened say they still can't believe it happened. >> i've lived here for 39 years and i have never seen something like this in my life. and seeing just s.w.a.t. and police officers from all over the cities from everywhere, it's just insane. reporter: after searching the building, police found the suspect, engaged with him, eventually shooting and killing him. investigators also searched his home here in aurora but didn't find anything suspicious. we are also learning the suspect had a criminal past that includes doing prison time for aggravated assault. the mayor here in aurora saying that the focus right now needs to be on the five victims who lost their lives. so far, none of those names have been released yet. charles? charles: jeff, before we let you go, what sort of updates or what sort of insight do you think we can expect to hear at this 11:00 update? reporter: i think the big thing that we're expecting is going to be happening at 10:00 local here, 11:00 eastern, possibly some of the names of the victims and then we can start putting more focus on the people who lost their lives in this shooting. other than that, it's hard to really tell what we're going to get. the last update was about 12 hours ago. still as we mentioned in the intro, several police officers here going in and out of this building where that shooting happened. charles? charles: thank you very much. former fbi director, deputy director a oor andrew mccabe tro walk back comments made in his "60 minutes" interview. republicans are demanding answers and a key democratic adviser is, too. that's next. but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. does your customers connecting to the wifi ever slow down your business? yes, it does slow things down. aggravating. it's a nightmare. so our gig-speed network is fast. and we go beyond fast by making it easy to create separate networks for your business and your customers and even control how much bandwidth each of those gets. so your business won't miss a beat. this is a big game changer. this is the new wave, and whoever doesn't get on, i think they would be left behind. just one more way we go beyond at&t. right now get fast, reliable internet and add wifi pro for a low price. comcast business. beyond fast. charles: what is happening in this country right now? >> not only did it happen, charles, but they cast a net so wide without any, any real evidence on anyone. the only evidence they had was this dossier that the clinton campaign paid for that came from russia. the irony in all this, i can't say it enough times, the very thing that they were investigating the trump campaign for which was supposedly getting dirt from russians to use against hillary clinton, that's exactly what the clinton campaign did. so you know, i hope that the new a.g. gets in there and he starts to clean house and so that we can start to put the department of justice and the fbi back together again. charles: former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe telling cbs deputy attorney general rod rosenstein raised high level talks to consider how to kick the president out of office after jim comey's firing. rosenstein was serious about his offer to wear a wire to record the president. rosenstein denies it. top republicans are calling for hearings to get to the bottom of it. now andrew mccabe's office is saying wait a minute, his comments were taken out of context so what's going on here? former clinton adviser mark penn has some ideas. mark joins us now. mark, what a tangled web. explain to the audience what you think is happening here. >> well, you can see why this group has earned the title deep state. first, mccabe is pointing the finger at rosenstein for trying to invoke the 25th amendment and wiretap the president. rosenstein says hey, i didn't do that. but mccabe triggered the obstruction investigation and independent counsel and on what basis did he do so? under quote, the fear that he might be removed. he didn't do it on the basis of an actual crime that occurred. in fact, rather than being shunted away, mccabe was made acting head of the fbi. so rather than wait for new fbi director to come in, be approved by the senate, they maybe see some things were amiss with this dossier, maybe see that christopher steele was fired for lying. rather than that, they created the independent counsel so that they could have this investigation done by their own friends and supporters and that's what was done here and it's totally illegal. charles: you know, i want to read part of a statement that was released by mccabe's office yesterday. part of it reads at no time did mr. mccabe participate in any extended discussions about the use of the 25th amendment, nor is he aware of any such discussions. he was present and participated in a discussion that included a comment by deputy attorney general rod rosenstein regarding the 25th amendment. that's from melissa schwartz, spokeswoman for andrew mccabe. that was on friday, yesterday. mark, you know, when i saw this statement come across, i was like whoa, because the way this is playing out, this "60 minutes" interview, almost an admission for lack of a better word, a de facto coup that the fbi decided they didn't like the outcome of this election and they were plotting on how to count enough noses in the cabinet to possibly trigger a coup. >> that's it. they didn't like the outcome of the election. more importantly, they didn't like that their director was fired. all of this was a retaliatory action of the director being fired even though rod rosenstein wrote the memo to have him fired, they all got together and said maybe we can use the 25th amendment, maybe we can get him out this way, maybe we can hold a wire, oh, maybe we can do an independent counsel, all in retaliatory action for the firing of james comey. what a deep state. what a mess. mccabe was fired for lying. who knows who is telling the truth here. all three of these top figures contradict each other multiple times on multiple stories. charles: the overarching theme here, though, is that you had the highest levels of the fbi who had a degree, varying degrees of animus towards candidate trump, then president trump. some actually talked about taking action if somehow he were to win the election. then we get evidence that the fbi kicking around the idea of somehow invoking the 25th amendment, getting eight of 15 cabinet members, nose counting, if you will, to go ahead and try to remove the duly elected president of the united states. this is shocking stuff. >> it is totally shocking stuff. it is the making of movies. it is everything we grew up fearing about the people that we give the greatest trust to in the government. the 25th amendment does not apply to the fbi. it applies to people in congress and the cabinet for extraordinary circumstances, typically related to the health of the president of the united states. none of which has any application here whatsoever. the whole thing is incredible but even if they didn't use the 25th amendment, what they did was trigger a series of things that now has created a two-year investigation. look, there's a new attorney general coming in and look, the attorney general should tell robert mueller hey, wrap this up, get out your conclusions and if you want to continue investigating, how about having democrats and republicans on your investigation team. how about having a balanced team in order to have credibility. make some changes that are constructive if robert mueller isn't ready to finally give his report and move on. charles: all right. thank you very much. >> thank you. charles: protesters got their way, but what about the 25,000 people who were hopeful of getting a new job when amazon came in town in new york city? the online retailer packing up before they could even deliver, next. why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today. it's incredible. i mean, it shows that every day americans still have the power to organize and fight for their communities, and they can have more say in this country than the richest man in the world. charles: new york congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez taking heat for seeming to celebrate amazon's decision to leave new york before they even got here. now she's trying to clarify those comments. reporter: a stunning announcement on thursday, amazon canceling its planned hq2 project for new york city. 25,000 potential jobs, no longer coming to the proposed long island city queens location. in a blog post, amazon called out state and local politicians for their opposition to the second headquarters and suggested that is what motivated the company to pull out of the deal. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, who represents the bronx and queens, initially celebrated the decision as a victory, but backtracked her comments on friday when asked about the criticism she received for celebrating the loss of 25,000 jobs. >> it wasn't a celebration. it's that everyday people in the community stood up and they wanted a say in what was happening in their own backyard. you know, it's not the community's fault that the moment they said hey, what are the details of this, where are the benefits coming from, can we secure more, they came to the negotiating table and amazon said we're not negotiating. we're just going to leave. reporter: governor andrew cuomo a major supporter of the project, putting the blame on ocasio-cortez and others, saying quote, a small group of politicians put their own narrow political interests above their community which poll after poll shows overwhelmingly supported bringing amazon to long island city. the state's economic future and the best interests of the people of this state. the new york state senate has done tremendous damage. they should be held accountable for this lost economic opportunity. mayor bill de blasio expressing his frustration with amazon, saying quote, we gave amazon the opportunity to be a good neighbor and do business in the greatest city in the world. instead of working with the community, amazon threw away that opportunity. de blasio said there was no discussion before amazon made up its mind. amazon said it would continue to develop the other half of hq2 in northern virginia as well as the new office in nashville, tennessee. as for those other cities vying for amazon's business during the year-long search, amazon said it is not considering any other locations at this time. charles: thank you very much. queens chamber of commerce president says the city -- borough is far along in its plans to welcome and support amazon and he joins us now. do you feel this is a done deal? amazon saying they're not going to look back. so whatever you guys had thought you were going to get done, that's done. >> good morning. thanks for having me this morning. i don't think, you can never say never, especially in the city of new york. i think there's been such a groundswell since the announcement on valentine's day regarding this, all day friday we got calls to my office, e-mails, texts and that includes members of the community advisory council, the 45 people, including people from the neighboring housing projects that were deeply, deeply committed and deeply, deeply involved in every aspect of this. and businesses in negotiation, we were just getting ourselves started to get our arms and our hands around this thing. and unfortunately, it didn't go our way right now. charles: some opponents would point to the largest housing project in that neighborhood and of course, the development of a new opportunity zone as one of the reasons why alexandria ocasio-cortezes of the world didn't want this project, thinking that hey, yeah, there are going to be some great-paying jobs but no one in those projects would be able to get those jobs and the only thing that would happen is the starbucks would come in, the whole foods would come in, rents would go up and eventually, all the people who had been living there for several generations would be pushed out. what do you say about that? >> i totally, whole-heartedly disagree. we have engaged the folks over there with maybe the largest job opportunity in the last 75 years, and the next 25 years. we have embraced people like april simpson, who runs the tenant association at the queensbrook projects. bishop taylor, born and raised there, as was his family. we were all over this project to get those people jobs. finally find a way for 25,000 jobs. let me just say, too, people in the chambers of commerce business, people like me in the bronx and brooklyn and all the other ones, the lengths we go to keep a company of 50, 25 people to stay in the city of new york would astound most people, instead of having them go south or to connecticut or new jersey. charles: on that note, does it bother you a little bit that there aren't lower taxes offered to smaller businesses? in other words, you know, a lot of people are saying golly, the richest man in the world, does he need $3 billion break and what about the person that wants to open up a local teeshirt shop? you know, is there something inherently wrong when these big companies can get all of these sort of tax breaks and a small business or would-be business can't? >> i do not agree with that position. the new york city department of small business services has some great programs to help and -- charles: tax policies, the breaks, i mean, you understand there's sort of the other side of the argument here. i'm not saying they're right. but it's gaining momentum. it's gaining momentum in the democratic party. it's gaining momentum against young adults. and it's the sort of thing that's a pushback against american style capitalism that i'm really worried about, because i think this now has been your borough has now become the epicenter of it. >> i would agree. i think the $3 billion was a program that was available to any other company. we just happened to land a large, large opportunity and i think it was all based upon those incentives, were based upon the jobs they were going to deliver. period. that's the way it works. charles: thank you very much. >> thank you very much. charles: a national emergency that isn't getting any headlines, no, i'm not talking about the border wall, but it does involve government spending. find out how a major problem just got a whole lot worse. next. charles: you're looking live at 2020 presidential candidate, new jersey democrat senator cory booker, holding a rally in new hampshire. booker and the other 2020 hopefuls promising and supporting new big government programs from medicare for all to the green new deal. that just as our national debt tops $22 trillion. congratulations, america. neither party really talking about cutting spending, so is this the real national emergency? to jonas, susan and dan. susan, let me start with you. $22 trillion and counting. we paid over $500 billion last year in interest. soon it will be $1 trillion a year. you could buy all the border wall you want with it, almost all the medicare for all. you can do a lot. >> it's a lot. up $2 trillion under the trump administration but on an annualized basis it's less per year than the entire obama eight-year tenure. however, you're right. it does have a market impact, it does have an economic impact because we have to service it and pay it somehow. that drains money from the u.s. economy. charles: can we be honest and say neither party will ever do anything about it? are we inevitably going to have to hit the cliff? listen, in greece there was someone out there for years saying guys, we can't just keep saying 14 months of salary for 12 months of work. we can't let people go on five-month vacations. we can't let people retire at age 50 because they worked in a beauty salon and dangerous hair chemicals. we can't keep doing this. they still hit the wall. >> we are going to hit a wall. i don't know why it used to be the thing the other party that was out of power brought up. now they are kind of off that. it's a little more about what we are going to spend money on. in fact, the thing that bugs me the most about this, they are not even playing, you know, the inequality and they talked about raising taxes, there has been a lot of tax proposals but their spending proposals are bigger than the tax proposals so the problem's not going away. funny thing, the european countries that have all those social programs, they have lower debt to gdp ratios than america and they borrow at lower rates because they have this under control. we are the ones who have lost control. the democrats who want to go into a socialism type model don't have a plan that has the tax revenue base of a european country. >> the u.s. is still more contained than say europe -- not europe, but china and japan. charles: the only major economy -- >> the difference is a country like japan and most of europe borrows at negative interest rates. we do not have that luxury. we borrow at fairly high rates relative to the rest of the world who has their debt under control. or interest payments as a percentage of gdp, which is really all that matters, japan is a negative interest rate, doesn't matter, is a problem area that will get really bad if the rate goes higher. charles: you are a numbers man. a few years ago, these numbers shocked us. when we first saw that debt clock, we were like whoa, you know. this is something almost everyone agreed was a major, major issue. we have become numb to it but you are a numbers guy. talk about the impact of this. >> i think we have become numb to it even though i am a numbers guy. nobody is talking about it anymore. if you go back to 2001, you had the national debt running at 31% of gdp. now we are up to 76% of gdp for our national debt. it's unsustainable. ten years from now -- >> [ inaudible ]. charles: someone watching is saying okay, you know what, we have been warned. maybe we overwarn people. maybe we were too hysterical about it because we didn't go over a cliff. now it's like the boy crying wolf. this is a huge issue, a huge emergency, and no one's talking about it. >> because the number is too big, charles. let me tell you what i mean by that. if you took the average person and said you have $50 million worth of credit card debt. you know what they would say? who cares? i'm never going to be able to pay that. unfortunately, i think our national debt is getting to such a number, we realize we can't pay it. so are we going to go off the cliff? yes, we are going to go off the cliff before anybody's going to do anything about it. because politicians are buying votes, re-electionism, right, through all this spending. that's never going to end unless we are going to do something really bold like term limits. charles: on the democratic side, the number one issue is the earth's temperature will get one degree warmer in a hundred years. we are looking at $22 trillion in debt in our face right now, yet that can't elicit any sort of anxiety or feefrment. >> are you talking about the green new deal? kamala harris' $3 trillion? charles: it's on spend, spend, spend in an effort to curb something that may happen a hundred years from now when there's no way this can be sustainable any length of time. >> you look at the 2020 hopefuls, cory booker wants -- it's just suspending, getting the revenue i think is part of the equation they are missing at this point. for me, i feel like if you want to look at $22 trillion, could be so much worse after the election. charles: it's not, though, the revenues are there. we are bringing in more money, we typically bring in more money when the economy is on fire but the spending is where it never gets curbed. >> we are not at the point of no return yet. charles: we're not? >> no. this is one of the strongest economies so our gdp can grow faster than other economies which can help the problem. but that said, getting to the original problem, even these democrat plans could solve the debt problem if they were like you know what, we want to fix the environment so we are going to tax energy. that's it. we are going to get the debt paid off with it. that sort of could work. >> no. no. >> it's not going to work. >> you are not going to have energy taxes like that. >> they are not going to just tax. they will give incentives. charles: we have to make sure not to overtax, that we curb spending. >> european countries are in a better debt to gdp situation but they are in a lower gdp growth situation because of their tax situation. t it's a balance. charles: we didn't solve anything but it was fun. california planning to sue the trump administration for declaring a national emergency to build the border wall. i wonder how california republican congressman tom mcclintock feels about that. we will ask him. he's next. ama. aka, rocket city, usa. this is a very difficult job. failure is not an option. more than half of employees across the country bring financial stress to work. if you're stressed out financially at home, you're going to be too worried to be able to do a good job. i want to be able to offer all of the benefits that keep them satisfied. it is the people that is really the only asset that you have. put your employees on a path to financial wellness with prudential. bring your challenges. - ( phone ringing )es offers - big button,lized phones... and volume-enhanced phones. get details on this state program. visit right now or call during business hours. do you think this is fun for me? 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[man on other line] it certainly wasn't much fun to..... do you have eyes on the target? is it her? [man on other line] i can't tell from this photos... ...i need better shots. thank you for flying turkish airlines. taxi! you waiting for someone? no. just... looking. and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program visit right now or call during business hours. charles: the state of california is planning to sue the trump administration for declaring a national emergency to build the border wall. let's talk about this with california's republican congressman tom mcclintock. congressman, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure, charles. thanks for having me. charles: it's not necessarily manned by dogs as far as the headline is concerned. nevertheless, here we are. california springing into action to save the day. what do you make of it? >> well, they brought an action against the president just a few months ago in the ninth circuit, and were turned down by the ninth circuit which is hardly a bastion of conservatism in the american judicial system. i think the president is on absolutely solid ground. this is an authority that dates back to 1976. it's been used 58 times. we have national emergencies declared that date back 40 years. we have declared them for things like the civil war in sierra-leone, burma, haiti. this is occurring on our southern border right now. 60,000 people a month illegally crossing that border. you look at the statistics, 1800 americans were murdered in 2017 by illegal immigrants. 48,000 violently assaulted. not one of those crimes should have occurred because not one of those criminals should have been in our country to begin with. if that's not a national emergency, i don't know what is. charles: what do you make, representative mcclintock, when the media and your colleagues on the other side of the aisle sort of conveniently overlook those sort of statistics that you just rolled out and say well, border towns are relatively safe and then they conflate somehow illegal immigration with legal immigration, or maybe college educated student from india who overstays their visa. these are deliberately done to inflame and provoke. what do you make of that? >> well, legal and illegal immigration are two very different things. legal immigrants to have a lower rate of committing crimes -- charles: it suggests that even -- >> we should expect that. but there's a lot of data on illegal immigration that suggests that they commit crimes at a much higher rate than the general population. i know there's a study out of texas that says otherwise but there are studies in arizona and a fox news study a few years ago that suggested that there's about a two to three times increase in crimes committed by illegal immigrants. charles: more recently, we have seen an uptick in families, a steady stream of unaccompanied children and we have heard some horrific stories. it's a dangerous trek, particularly coming from central america. you know, could this be argued on a humanitarian basis that a more secure border will deter those things and maybe add to it, more points to apply for asylum throughout mexico and central america, wouldn't that be a more honest way to discuss this and to try to fix this? >> well, of course it would be. the reason why they are making that dangerous trek, putting those children at risk, is because they expect to be granted entry into the united states because we have a porous border. if our immigration laws are actually being enforced, our border is actually being enforced, then the incentive to make that trip drops to zero. and frankly, if we don't enforce our immigration laws, then our borders become meaningless and our country simply becomes a vast open territory between canada and mexico, which, by the way, both have immigration laws and borders they actually enforce. charles: sir, thank you very much. really appreciate it. >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. charles: fair and balanced, we will talk to california's democratic congressman, john garamendi and senate judiciary committee member john kennedy tells president trump how to legally build the wall. plus, former whitewater independent counsel ken starr on new revelations from fired fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. and the police in aurora, illinois are about to give an update on that deadly workplace shooting. we will be there live. what do you look for when you trade? i want free access to research. yep, td ameritrade's got that. free access to every platform. yeah, that too. i want to know what i'm paying upfront. yes, absolutely. everything you want. one low price. td ameritrade. ♪ sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. and now, save 50% on the sleep number ... plus, 36-month financing. ends monday. >> we are awaiting a press conference from the aurora, illinois police department on yesterday's deadly workplace shooting. jeff paul is there now. >> charles, we just moved locations and you can see what someone did over here. they dropped off five crosses outside of the manufacturing facility where the shooting happened, signifying the five lives lost in that mass shooting that took place yesterday. a little further in from where we're standing at this manufacturing facility. we're hoping to learn more about those five lives, some of the names, maybe, and start to put the emphasis on the victims of yesterday's shooting, but we also have to touch on some of the facts about what happened yesterday. now, yesterday, investigators say that a 45-year-old worker at this facility ended up at his place of work, he was going to be fired, and he walked into the facility with a handgun and shooting and killing five people and also injured six people, five of which were police officers. some of the first to arrive on scene risking their lives, run inside this manufacturing facility hoping to save as many people as they could. the chief of the aurora police department spoke about that. take a listen. >> we're having somber moments because lives were lost, but we know that this is what they do every day, i mean, you wake up in the morning and you put that uniform on and you don't know what the day is going to hold for you, just like those victims that went to work today. but these officers know that it's, you know, this is the thing that they're willing to accept. >> now, coming back out here live, hopefully you can see these crosses again because we do want to put as much emphasis as we can on the victims who lost their lives. we're being told that they were all workers at this facility here, henry pratt, which is a manufacturing facility. that update is scheduled to happen in a little less than a half hour. originally it was at 10:00, but we're, again, trying to get any sort of updates, especially on these victims. charles. charles: thank you very much, jeff. we'll see you when the press coverages starts. we'll bring you the press conference as soon as it ha happens. the state of of california is going to sue the president over the border wall. and john garamendi joins us now. thank you for joining us. >> the tragedy in aurora, and we're thinking about that. this is an issue we have right now. charles: and it's heartbreaking, the heroics of the police and the people who work in at that plant. exactly. charles: and again, i started my interview with representative mcclintock saying it's not necessarily man bites dog. it's not shocking that california is taking this route. why is this though? why does the state of california take this position when many people say that the border for-- the border wall, fence between t tijuana and san diego has been nothing, but success. crime has stopped on both side of the border walls and economy has soared and it's beneficial for both sides? >> that's certainly true. we've been working with border fence in tijuana and to the east of that for almost four decades. so there's no debate that there's a need for border fence or border wall on certain parts of the mexican border. no doubt about that. this is there's a much more important issue here than a border wall and this is a constitutional issue and i think this is where california is going to go. the congress and the president just signed a piece of legislation on friday to end the shutdown, but that legislation also was very, very clear about how the congress would fund a border wall, border fence and border security. no sooner was that signed into law than the president did something which many of us believe is extra outside of the constitution. article one section nine is very, very clear, no appropriation except through a law passed by congress, and that's exactly what happened. that law also restricted, defined and set how much money and what the wall would be and then the president immediately went over the will of congress by declaring an emergency using another law to achieve that. that's a very, very fundamental question and if you are a strict constitutionalist, as most conservatives are, this is a fundamental issue of the separation of powers and frankly, it needs to be resolved, hopefully resolved in a way that the power of congress, the checks and balances, are maintained. charles: well, i'm not a constitutional expert, but i've been able to interview and speak to several of them and there are varying opinions to your point and maybe it will be resolved. >> sure. charles: but do you then not think though -- does it live up to the idea that this is perhaps a national emergency regardless of whether or not congress has the ability, you know, that congress, usurping congress's power of the purse? >> well, i think the answer is found in the president's words yesterday of, even a cursory review of his press conference would indicate, it wasn't the first thing he brought up. in fact, it was the last thing he brought up at that press conference and then his words seemed to indicate that he knew that this wasn't going to get done very quickly. i would suggest there's a much faster and frankly, a much more constitutional appropriate way to do that and that is is in just three weeks, the president will deliver to coping his budget. and in that budget, he should put in specific information about the wall. where does he want it, how many miles or feet and yards, where it's justified and then by next october 1st, we must pass a new appropriation bill, and that's the normal way to do it and frankly, i think it will be much faster than the route that president has chosen which would be a monumental legal fight as well as a significant political battle. it will be faster and frankly, the outcome will be better because it will be following the strict constitutional format congress has the appropriation power. charles: representative garamendi, always a pleasure, thank you very much. >> you've got it, thank you. charles: fired andrew mccabe creating a firestorm talking about the 25th amendment to get the president out of office. ken starr weighs in next. amily and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. we're finally going on the trip i've been promising. because with expedia, i saved when i added a hotel to our flight. ♪ so even when she outgrows her costume, we'll never outgrow the memory of our adventure together. unlock savings when you add select hotels to your existing trip. only when you book with expedia. >> the discussion of the 25th amendment was simply rod raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort. charles: all right, acting fbi director andrew mccabe says there was talk of using the 25th amendment to remove president trump from office. deputy attorney general rod rosenstein says that mccabe is factually inaccurate. and the author of "contempt", the clinton investigation, ken starr joins us. we need your expertise here. >> good morning. charles: good morning, by the way. and how this is laid out and so far, the fbi took it upon themselves, leaders at the fbi took it upon themselves to effect a coup, to remove the president of the united states. >> terrible. just extraordinary, and i must say in terms of the rod rosenstein and andrew mccabe controversy, i know rod rosenstein and i worked with him on the whitewater investigation, a person of integrity, people can criticize him all they want, he's a very honest public service to be honest, andrew with all due respect has a real credibility issue and referred over to the criminal division for possible criminal charges. i wish no one ill, but let's look at the record of credibility. so, but, yes, for the fbi to, on its own, without the authorization of the attorney general of the united states or at least the deputy attorney general, to launch an investigation is clearly, by my judgment, one person's opinion, an abuse of power. i admit it, charles, i don't have all the facts, but given what we do know in the public record and revelation froms mr. mccain's book, no justification whatsoever. if the president is to be investigated, let's have the congress of the united states do the investigation. there's just been so much, i think, that is so ill-conceived in terms of this could have constituted an obstruction of justice, this being the firing of robert mueller. i think it's just such an extreme and extravagant and constitutionally weak position that i find it very hard to understand. i really do. charles: and what makes it even more difficult for a whole lot of people, ken, are some of the other revelations that have come out from other high ranking officials or investigators someone the fbi, their animus toward then candidate trump and suggest they would do things somehow if he were to win against all odds to make sure that he was never the president of this country. >> terrible. you have a first amendment right to have your own political views and the fbi and throughout the government, but you leave your politics at the door. that's the great traditions of the british civil service and that's the great tradition of the american civil service, but there clearly was a breach of those traditions at the highest levels. now, the federal bureau of investigation is a fantastic organization. fidelity, bravery, integrity and that's very meaningful to the men and women of the fbi unfortunately there were bad apples there, as far as i know they're basically gone and none too soon. charles: some wonder if there's a sort of a lingering impact from those who are gone and now this particular book and interview and what does it mean for the russia probe. does it impact the credibility in any way? >> i don't think so. bob mueller has the investigation well underway and we have a person of total integrity in bill barr. we saw the hearings were now attorney general barr. you're not going to rough him up. i served under bill barr, a person of great integrity, he's going to call them the way he sees them. i think we're going to make sure through bill barr, that it's a new day at the fbi and frankly, that it's a restoration of the great tradition of a wonderful institution. charles: and agree with you, i have friends who work at fbi and we know that the rank and file members are there doing a patriotic duty. the leadership issues may take a long time to clean up, but, you know, again, i want to get back to-- >> i don't think so, charles. i'm sorry to interrupt, but i don't think so. charles: okay. >> you clean house, you bring the broom in, and i think that it's largely been done. it remains to be seen and i wish we had, frankly, i'm going to be a little critical here that christopher ray would be a little more transparent with the american people and we don't hear from him on what needs to be, restoration of integrity, in terms of reputation, i'm glad you said what you did with the rank and file, traditional people. charles: i'm thinking back to emf emfram zimbalist, jr. >> and we're looking at elliott abrams this week and did she did too far and did it hurt her party. charles: we'll debate that and you'll get a chance to decide. >> if i could respond to that-- >> it wasn't a question, on-- but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. it's a revolution in sleep. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now, from $899, during the ultimate sleep number event. it senses your movement, and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it even helps with this. so you wake up ready to hit the ground running. only at a sleep number store. during our presidents day weekend special, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 36-month financing. ends monday. sleep number... proven quality sleep check in from afar with remote access, ♪ and have professional monitoring backing you up with xfinity home. demo in an xfinity store. call, or go online today. >> i don't understand why members of this committee or the american people should find any testimony that you give today to be truthful. >> if i could respond to that. >> it wasn't a question. on-- that was not a question. >> i would-- >> that was -- i reserve the right to my time. >> it is not right-- >> that was not a question. >> that members of this committee can attack a witness and not permit today reply. >> that was not a question. >> in a heated exchange on capitol hill. ilhan omar asked special envoy to venezuela elliott abrams about his 1991 guilty plea withholding information in the iran-contra affair and he was pardoned by george w. bush. is this helping or hurting the party? david bernstein, g.o.p. strategist, holly turner and fox news contributor janine burrelly. david, let me start with you. it was not pleasant to watch th that, as a democratic representative, how do you feel about that? >> well, look, i think that representative omar is not having a great week, a couple of weeks here in her introduction to congress because on a certain level while i think the people who came into congress, they did come here and they have a mandate from voters to hold the trump administration accountable and hold them to account, you have to do that with a little bit more intentionality and decorum. while mr. abrams was convicted of a crime a long time ago, is this the kind of issue that's going to move voters? i think she probably hurt her cause more than she helped it, although i'm sure she endeared her base by going after a republican. >> you have a campaign and sort of a fire and vigor and anger, maybe, that might appeal to certain people, but there's a certain way you also comport yourself once you arrive in washington d.c. >> note to steph to anyone washington, na could happen to you. i think for her to be a freshman in congress and such a young person, she has a billing chip on her shoulder and it's not just a bad week. i think this is going to be something going forward. we're going to be seeing and hearing all kinds of antics from this woman and it's showing how radical the left is becoming. she's treating this man like that. you have the left and how they're moving toward the anti-capitalism aspect. we're going to see more and more radicalism i think coming from the left especially as we approach 2020 elections. charles: a lot of the newbies are angry and representing angry constituents and they're saying, hey, we're representing constituents who felt like they've been left out of this great american experience. they're angry about it and they're elected to be their spokesperson. >> i don't think their constituents are telling them that. charles: i wouldn't be surprise if she went back to her district to a heroes welcome. >> i disagree. >> i talked to members of the jewish community, and they're upset, afraid for their community and they endorsed her. they tried to put forth open mindedness and likely to win and publicly endorsed her and supported her in her campaign and they're alarmed by the rhetoric coming out. she hijacked that committee hearing with her anti-american rhetoric. it's-- >> what about recent immigrants in her district and muslim voters there? >> well if what she's saying is representative of what they're thinking, then we have got a lot of work in front of us and i'm afraid for the democrat party. they've gone far left and the anti-american jargon and words coming from all members of the party. and the leadership is not reprimanding them, it's-- >> in this particular case, i mean, that may be not in this hearing, but she was taken to task by nancy pelosi, which a lot of people applauded on both sides of the aisle. >> for other anti-semitic remarks and then she went on and did this. charles: david, that's the problem. also, do you go to washington d.c. to create solutions or is she going to be just there and her other colleagues to stir the pot to express anger, to finger point. when do they present solutions for things? >> i think we can all admit that what's happened to quote, unquote, hearing system in washington d.c. has turned into a bit of a farce. no one is trying to find out any answers to a hearing and no one is trying to give witnesses a fair shake. charles: that was embarrassing. would you admit as a democrat. >> no more embarrassing frankly than the hearings that republicans gave while they were in the majority. we should take the television cameras out of these rooms. it might be bad for this network, but much better for the the-- >> final word. >> i think it's telling of a sign of things to come from the left. charles: we reached out to congress woman omar and mr. abrams and they were unavailable. and john kennedy says that the president needs to keep fighting for the border wall. he's here. what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job. what? what?? what?! (laughing) what?? what?! what?! [crash] what?! haha, it happens. and if you've got cut-rate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. so get allstate... and be better protected from mayhem... like me. ♪ >> congress's failed to do their job. they've left the president with no option. he has to do this to safeguard the security of this country. i've tried to reach out to several different committees, where i wanted to say, hey, look, i'm here. i want to talk to you on both sides of the aisle. i've been met well on the republican side. not the democratic side. that's a fact. charles: the border chief under the obama administration, that was mark morgan, telling me that president trump had every right to declare a national emergency and he even tried meeting with democrats to discuss the border situation. but he was ignored. joining us now on the phone, republican louisiana senator john kennedy. kennedy, senator kennedy sits on the budget and judiciary committee. thanks for joining us. >> you bet, charles. charles: a lot of discussion, a lot of debate whether or not president trump has, a, the authority and b, whether it's necessary, what do you say to these things? >> i don't share the hysteria of some of my colleagues about the national emergency act. it doesn't scare me. look, i just lost this week, we all did, a southern state allow some well-intentioned crazies to piss away 25,000 six-figure jobs in a new york minute. that scares me. the national emergency acts does not scare me. the president is using powers given to him by congress, past presidents have used the statute 60 times, two to move money arou around. it will undoubtedly be litigated. anybody who knows a law book from an l.l. bean category understands that ultimately the u.s. supreme court will give us on this. in the meantime, the president's going to do the very best job that he can to secure our border and that's-- for 25 years, charles, i have watched big government republicans and rich carlton democrats in this town refuse to enforce america's immigration laws and trump's only sin is that he is abiding by the rule of law, enforcing. and any fair-minded person, any fair-minded person knows you cannot secure 1900 miles of real estate without a barrier. ask israel. charles: well, to that point, sir, the same question, a similar question was posed to former congressman beto o'rourke of texas and he actually said if he could, if he had the ability to, he would actually remove existing barrier walls and fences along el paso, that he thinks that they don't work, that there's no demonstrable evidence that they keep americans safer. >> well, no disrespect, but look at the facts. when we built the wall at san diego, then el paso, in yuma, illegal immigration dropped 88%. did it stop all of it? no, but it stopped most of it. there's a reason that israel has 435 mile border wall with the west bank, it stops terrorists, not all of it, but most of it. there's a reason that saudi arabia built 1100 border wall with yemen and 600 border wall with iraq. there's a reason that indian has had a border wall and norway and malaysia. i don't know that -- if he thinks border walls don't work, if he thinks we ought to tear them down after the american people spent billions of dollars of their hard-earned money, then mr. beto is just wrong. he's been-- he and willie have been together. >> i want to ask you, and you alluded to knowing the law. and when i listen to nancy pelosi and the questions that were posed to her this week, she realizes ultimately a legal challenge will fail. she has redirected her attack on this national emergency suggesting that, well, maybe republicans will rue the day this was used because ultimately a democratic senator will be able to use it to enforce their own version of gun control laws, their own actions against climate change, and a variety of other topics. are you worried at some point a democratic president will be able to use national emergencies to to circumvent congress and put out their own laws. >> speaker pelosi, great respect, is making the argument that a future democratic president wouldn't have enough sense or staff would have enough sense to understand the financial emergency exists and used 60 times by former presidents. so the idea that this is some sort of unprecedented measure by president trump is -- and she knows that, it's just an excuse. and this is not complicated. legal immigration, we welcome a million people a year legally to our country. legal immigration makes our country strong. illegal immigration undermines legal immigration. and by the way, illegal immigration is illegal, duh. speaker pelosi needs to admit she makes no distinction between legal and illegal immigration, i disagree with her. i've listened to her talk about the rule of law with the mueller investigation. and when it comes to immigration laws, she wants to ignore the rule of law. i mean, the hypocrisy is breathtaking. charles: senator kennedy, thank you very, very much. we always appreciate your thoughts and i'll relay your thoughts to the citizens of new york city, exactly what happened to them in the new york city and new york minute with the amazon news. thank you-- >> kudos to governor cuomo. we don't agree a lot, but at least he tried. charles: he did try. >> at least he tried. charles: now maybe he'll just start to lower taxes and that's another way he can maybe fix it for the future. sir, thank you very much, always appreciate it. >> you bet. charles: the aurora, illinois police department, they're getting ready to give an update on the deadly workplace shooting. we're expecting to learn more about the suspect and five victims that he killed. we will be there live. 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look at it, it looks like it was sour grapes from a few smaller new york senators, some concerns about the union and the power that the union still has in new york city. so, really, small players being upset about being left out and this decision largely being handled through albany. so, for us, as a new york city resident it's incredibly disappointing that we can still have, you know, very small interest controlling what would have been a very beneficial use case. from an amazon perspective and stock perspective is what i'm thinking about, this actually looks good. there's a lot of opportunity for amazon to grow in its other hubs. a lot of other areas it can pick, i don't see it being a detriment at all for amazon, it's a loss for new york city. charles: amazon when they started this thing, the criteria had nothing to do with tax breaks. they wanted to be near universities, great housing systems, with are they wouldn't necessarily jack up home prices or disrupt the local area, where they would have transportation so they laid out a bunch of things they wanted which narrows potential candidates, but never said hey, if you don't give us the gigantic tax break we won't show up and some people say that's what they wanted the whole time. >> amazon is notorious for not wanting to pay taxes. charles: and pretty successful at it, also. >> they have been of the let's be clear on taxes played a role on this. from the standpoint of new york, so there's 300,000 tech jobs in new york city. so, not gaining 25,000 more is not that big a deal. however, it's the messaging that new york is sending to say, we are not really receptive to having tech giants come in and maybe we don't want to compete for their business anymore. and one other thing, and you and i talked about this, charles, when amazon went to the $15 an hour minimum wage, the left was praising them. now what happened? amazon becomes the enemy instead of the friend of the left, go figure. >> i think the fact it comes across that new york city isn't business friendly. that's what's concerning. charles: there's been a mass exodus out of new york city and new york state for a long time. >> make new york more friendly to all businesses and not the company, didn't pay taxes, and even though the owner is a billionaire. the top six cities in the world for venture capital are all in america and they collect, boston, new york and four in california, l.a., san francisco, whatever. google is going to add-- is going to be a 25,000 people in new york in probably a year or two because the talent here, infrastructure here, quality of life. they need to be near the eco system. that says that new york can't get sloppy and lazy because there's taxes you can't deduct-- very high income taxes of the six cities new york is the highest state. charles: and a lot of individuals-- >> and new york needs to address the issues. as far as handing out the red carpet to this company that went around the country trying to cut deals with everybody, i think they overdid it, i don't think that new york has to do it. other places have to, nevada got tesla because texas loss them and texas is a no tax, and you don't want to anow a billionaire. the reason he left we're not kissing his butt. he wants his butt kissed just like nevada did to elon musk. i don't think that new york needs the jobs. a top location, keep it a top location and competitive for everybody, but deliver infrastructure, quality employees. >> we may not need it, but it would have been beneficial and i don't see it necessarily as purely just about taxes. i think it's also about, they don't want the negative publicity. they've got plenty of negative publicity going on right now and adding that with new york is just one more step saying, look, i'm out, i'm done. charles: and we had governor cuomo saying to his party, we can't go back to tax the rich well anymore. that the 1% pay 46% of our taxes and this comes out that last year governor brown admitted in california 1% pays 48% of taxes. the idea going off and hijacking the wealth of the 1%, it ain't working no more. >> wealth is mobile, charles and that's what everybody needs to understand. if you're going to overtax the rich in one place, they're simply going to migrate to another and the bigger picture here, the states are competing, they're competing to attract wealthy taxpayers and they're competing to attract corporations. and that's the bottom line. >> but in the meantime, we see where the presidential candidates at least ones to announce thus far, including kamala harris who happens to be in south carolina right now. they're putting out policies that are very hostile to the 1% and actually, you know, they're-- all of their economic policies begin with taking the money from the 1% to jump start them, because we have-- we have the press conference now? i'm sorry, folks, let's go to aurora, illinois, the police department are giving us an update on that deadly workplace shooting. let's listen in. >> followed by information from the assistant officially in charge, brendan ivor from the chicago field office. we're going to follow with a brief overview of yesterday's timeline by deputy chief keith jackson. and then following that, we're going to return to the chief for brief questions. okay? chief. >> good morning, everyone. my name is kristin zeman, before i begin with the update i want to give a heartfelt thanks to our citizens and business owners in aurora, who has delivered food, gifts and well wishes for our officers in recovery. and gratitude to our law enforcement brothers and sisters across the nation and beyond who have reached out to us. it means so much to all of us to know that you're sending positive energy for our officers who are injured, the responding officers, and the victims' families. as we relentlessly pursue answers to questions on why a person could do such a thing, we feel the support from all of you and my cup runeth over. i'd like to provide an update on the condition of our officers who are still being treated for their injuries for yesterday's shooting incident. all five of our officers are recovering under the care of physicians in the chicago metro area. officer one is a male, 39 years of age, with 13 years of service here at the aurora police department. this officer suffered a gunshot wound to his lower extremities and is in stable condition at the local hospital. officer two a male, 52 years of age with 25 years of service at aurora police department. this officer suffered a gunshot wound to his upper extremity. he was treated and will be released from the hospital later this morning. officer three is a male, 52 years old with 24 years of service here at aurora police department. he suffered a gunshot wound to the lower extremities, he was treated and released from the hospital yesterday. officer four a male, 53 years of age with 30 years of service. this officer also suffered a gunshot wound to the lower extremity and was treated in an area hospital. officer five, a male, 24 years of age with just under four years of service. this officer suffered a series of shrapnel wounds to the upper extremities, currently being treated and is in stable condition at a local hospital. officer six, a male 23 years of age with two years of experience is here at aurora police department, suffered a minor injury while responding to the incident and not related to gunfire. all of the officers' injuries are considered nonlife threatening. and the victims of henry pratt of yesterday's shooting. clayton parks of elgin, illinoisment. trevor weiner of de kalb, illinois, an intern at henry pratt and a student at northern illinois university. russell bier he, a mold operator at henry pratt. vincente juarez, a stock room attendant and forklift operator at henry pratt. josh pinkard of oswego, illinois, plant manager for henry pratt. another shooting victim a male employee treated at an area hospital for gunshot wounds. preliminary investigation that the deceased victims were located in the same general area of the henry pratt facilities. while the investigation is ongoing, we believe there is only one assailaassailant. here is what we know about the shooter, 45 years of age, lived in the 1900 block of sal martin road in aurora, six prior arrests, traffic and domestic battery related issues. last arrest in aurora, in 2008 violating an order of protection. the last arrest in 2017 by the oswego police department for criminal damage to property. regarding the weapon in the shooting incident. in january of 2014, the shooter was issued a firearm owners identification card. on march 6th, 2014 he applied to purchase a handgun, smith & wesson .40 caliber gun from that same dealer. march 16th, 2014, the shooter applied for a concealed carry permit at an unknown location. during fingerprinting and background process, it was discovered that he had a felony conviction for aggravated assault out of mississippi. the date of that conviction was august 3rd, 1995. it should be noted that this conviction would not necessarily have shown up on a criminal background check conducted for the card. once this felony conviction was discovered the offender's concealed and carry per miss was rejected and the card was revoked by the illinois state police. and assistant from the field division is here and able to describe how a firearm is traced. >> thank you, chief. good morning. so a.t.f. initiates a trace of a firearm. we start with the manufacturer of that firearm. from the manufacturer, we follow that firearm down to the distributor, from the distributor down to the local federal firearms licensee and ultimately to the first initial purchaser of the firearm. if we need to, we'll follow that firearm from the first initial purchaser and ultimately into the hands of the final possessor of the firearm. once we get all this have information, we actively and proactively share it with our state and local counterparts who have a vested interest in the investigation in this case, with the aurora police department. >> okay. >> thank you. >> well, first, i'd like to give you a rundown of resources that was used yesterday. we used approximately eight s.w.a.t. teams from the federal, all the way to the local level. approximately 25 to 35 agencies responded, consisting of approximately 200 to 300 officers. and as i go through the timeline there will be a reference made to contact teams and to rescue force teams. we used approximately eight contact teams throughout the initial search to look for the offender. those contact teams were made up of approximately six to eight officers. we also formed approximately 13 rescue tech force teams which consisted of approximately eight officers and three medics or personnel from the fire department. to start with the timeline. the original call came in 13:24, officers were dispatched it 641 archer avenue, active shooter in the plant. second call, 13:24 hours, caller stating shots fired, employees being terminated. 13:25 hours, two shots fired inside the warehouse. 13:25 hours, shots were heard over the phone. 13:26 hours, more shots fired. 13:27 hours, more shots fired. those calls were calls that came into our 911 center. at 13:28 hours, our first officers were responded to the scene. at 13:28 hours, the determination was made to activate our special response team. at 13:30 hours, first report of an officer being shot. at 13:31 hours, indication made there was four victims upstairs. 13:31 hours, indication made that there's a victim in the bay. all of these victims, they were referenced were determined to be deceased at that time. 13:32 hours, more shots fired. at 13:32 hours the second officer reported being shot. 13:33 hours to 13:33 hours, more shots were reported, being fire from our officers. 13:34 hours third officer reported being shot. 13:35 hours a fourth officer reported being shot. between 13:37 hours and 13:52 hours hour personnel were responding to extract some of the wounded officers at the scene. at 13:31 hours, the bearcat breached the facility to allow aid in entry of officers responding to the scene. at the point in which the bearcat breached the scene and they recovered the wounded officers, a simultaneous operation began to look for injured, recover the officers, and also start clearing the warehouse. from 13:52 hours up until 14:58 hours no contact was made with the offender. at 14:58 hours officers indicated contact made. at 14:59 hours confirmation was made that the suspect had been neutralized. >> okay, so at some point when we have the ability, we're going to release an itemized version of the timeline via our social media outlets and working on releasing a somewhat limited preview of some 911 tapes that might be coming in that we can release to you sometime in the near future. i'll open it up briefly for questions from the chief. chief. >> go ahead, sir. >> could you clarify was he fired in the morning and then he began shooting? or had he been fired? and was he an employee yesterday when he walked in the door? >> my understanding, yes, according to witness at the scene who was part of that termination meeting, is that he reported for work and during this meeting he was terminated, and my understanding from the witness is is that he opened fire right after the termination. >> at the person who fired him. >> correct. >> and then he moved out of the room and began shooting? >> we believe several people involved in that meeting are the ones who are deceased, yes. >> the events relating to the license-- revocation of his card indicate he was in illegal possession of that gun? >> that's correct. >> was someone to go out and take that-- >> that's part of our investigation, we'll report at a later time. he was not to be in possession of a firearm. >> it was his own gun he initially purchased, correct? >> correct. >> the suspect shooter killed by a single bullet or-- >> you're watching the aurora illinois police department, including onscreen police chief kristen ziman, and going over the workplace events that apparently began in the human resources department human resources and five victims of the killer. the press conference will continue and we'll continue to cover it as well. you're watching fox news. i'm worried about my parents' retirement. don't worry. voya helps them to and through retirement... dealing with today's expenses... while helping plan, invest and protect for the future. so they'll be okay? i think they'll be fine. voya. helping you to and through retirement. whooo! want to take your next vacation to new heights? tripadvisor now lets you book over a hundred thousand tours, attractions, and experiences in destinations around the world! like new york! from bus tours, to breathtaking adventures, tripadvisor makes it easy to find and book amazing things to do. and you can cancel most bookings up to 24 hours in advance for a full refund. so you can make your next trip... monumental! read reviews check hotel prices book things to do tripadvisor >> and a fox news alert, as you heard. police still trying to figure out the motive behind the shooting that left five dead, six others injured in aurora, illinois. 11 a.m. outside of chicago. police now just wrapping up a news conference. welcome to america's news headquarters from washington. a lot to get to today. i'm leland vittert. kristen: i'm kristin fisher. and police identified the gunman, saying that he was set to let go from the job of 15 years when he opened fire in the workplace. our jeff paul is live in aurora, what are you learning? >>
"empire" actor jussie smollett is sticking to his story, claiming he was the victim of a racist and homophobic assault last month. but now, two nigerian brothers who police arrested and then released without charging them, are telling authorities a story that is different than what smollett reported to police. tony dokoupil has more. >> reporter: a celebrated young actor. >> reporter: a heinous crime. but was it staged? according to a chicago police source, authorities are now investigating that very question. just four weeks after "empire" star jussie smollett first described a racist homophobic attack that shocked the country. >> i seen the attacker masked and he said, "this is maga country, ( bleep )," and punches me right in the face. >> reporter: and just days after smollett went public with new details. >> i noticed the rope around my neck and i started screaming. and i said, "there's a ( bleep ) rope around my neck." >> reporter: saying he was "pissed off that some people didn't believe him." >> how do you not believe that? it's the truth. >> reporter: the chicago police department said new evidence shifted the trajectory of the investigation after detectives arrested two nigerian brothers identified as ola and abel osundairo. they were seen on surveillance video the night of the incident, and police found rope, masks, and bleach in their apartment. but they were released friday after the brothers told police they bought the rope at a nearby hardware store and participated in the attack at smollett's request, according to a chicago police source. smollett also allegedly paid them. gloria schmidt is the brother's attorney. >> new evidence that was brought to their attention. obviously i had it, obviously my clients had it. >> reporter: through his lawyers, smollett said he has "been angered and devastated by recent reports" that he "played a role in his own attack." adding, "nothing is further from the truth." and chicago police say they now have more investigative work to complete in this case. one of the nigerian brothers had been an extra on the show, "empire." one was also smollett's trainer, according to smollett's attorney. now david, smollett had just said earlier in the week he will be "forever changed" by this incident. >> begnaud: there are so many twists and turns in this case, tony. initially police were referring to smollett as the "victim." >> reporter: not anymore, as of late today, now they are referring to him as "the individual who reported the case." david. >> begnaud: that's interesting, tony dokoupil, thank you. we are learning new details about the five victims in friday's mass shooting at a warehouse in illinois, just west of chicago. as a community tries to heal, devastated family and friends are mourning the loss of loved ones who went to work and never came home. adriana diaz is there. >> reporter: mourners prayed for the five people who lost their lives just going to work on friday. they gathered here at the henry pratt company, where 45-year-old gary martin killed everyone in the room. right after he was fired. more than 200 officers responded. the gunman shot five, all but one have been released from the hospital. their identities are still not known. today, we are learning more about the victims. trevor wehner was a student intern studying human resources, friday was his first day. he was sitting in on the suspect's termination meeting. josh pinkard, the plant manager, was a father of three. his neighboring say his family just moved from alabama last year. russell beyer was a mold operator. his father told the "chicago sun times" that his son, a union representative, had helped the suspect get rehired. clayton parks was a human resource manager. he had recently become a father. vicente juárez was likely not in the meeting, because he was a forklift operator. his daughter diana was frantically searching for him friday. >> i left and i called my dad. i called my dad. and he wouldn't answer. i called my dad. i went to the emergency room, asking them, "do you guys have my dad?" "nope." he's never going to come home. never. >> reporter: there are now five crosses outside henry pratt. they were made by aurora resident greg zanis, who founded "crosses for losses." zanis travels across the country delivering crosses and stars of david at mass shootings like in parkland and las vegas. what is it like to happen here at home? >> when this happens here in my town, i can't leave, i'm part of this. that's what i don't like. >> reporter: in addition to the five lives lost, a sixth employee was shot three times and survived. we spoke to his mother this morning, who told us she was so relieved her son is alive. david, the company plans to open its doors tomorrow for any employees who may want to come in to grieve together. >> begnaud: adriana, that man with the cross was actually in florida for the pulse nightclub shooting. it is incredible to see this happening in his hometown. thank you. the white house is defending president trump's decision to declare a national emergency on the southern border. mr. trump declared the national emergency on friday to circumvent congress, because they refused to give him all the money he wants for a border wall. errol barnett is in west palm beach. >> reporter: in mission, texas, where the government cleared space for border wall construction, this demonstration against president trump's emergency declaration amplified a single message. >> no border wall! no border wall! >> reporter: it is one aspect of mounting resistance to friday's executive action. texas landowners are among plaintiffs in one lawsuit against president trump's decision, with more lawsuits planned from the a.c.l.u. and the state of california. >> we're in uncharted territory. >> reporter: the only republican house member representing a southern border district is will hurd of texas. >> there's going to be over 1,000 ranchers and farmers potentially impacted. i don't think we needed a national emergency declaration. >> reporter: hurd is also worried about where the money for a wall will come from. with the executive action, $3.6 billion can be redirected from the pentagon's construction projects, which includes funds to build a middle school in kentucky. today, republican senator lindsey graham said it's a worthy exchange. >> i would say it's better for the middle school kids in kentucky to have a secure border. we'll get them the school they need, but right now, we got a national emergency on our hands. >> reporter: house democrats plan to pass a resolution of disapproval, but it is unclear if such a measure would pass the republican-dominated senate. today, a senior advisor for the president was asked what mr. trump would do if the measure does make it through congress. >> yes, he will veto? >> he is going to protect the national emergency declaration, guaranteed. >> reporter: the acting defense secretary patrick shanahan said he has not yet made a military determination on if a border wall is necessary. he was returning from a security conference in germany. he said he will start digging into those details today. he will, of course, have the final say. another defense official says any determination will be based on the data. david? >> begnaud: errol's with the president at mar-a-lago tonight. thank you, errol. >> begnaud: as congress and the president continue to clash over border security strategy, we asked mireya villarreal to gives us a reality check on exactly what is going on at the border. >> reporter: these images of migrants at the u.s.-mexico border are exactly the ammo president trump has used to declare a national crisis. but a closer look at the actual data from the government's own figures paints a different picture. in 2018, nearly 400,000 people were apprehended by border patrol at the southern border. that's a 76% decrease from the record 1.6 million back in 2000. and contrary to the president's statements, the number of undocumented immigrants in the u.s. is at its lowest since 2004. >> we have tremendous amounts of drugs flowing into our country, much of it coming from the southern border. when you look and when you listen politicians, in particular certain democrats, they say it all comes through the port of entry. it's wrong, it's wrong. it's just a lie. >> reporter: and according to customs and border protection, a vast majority of drug seizures at the mexico border actually do happen at legal crossing points. what has changed is the dramatic increase in the number of families attempting to cross into the u.s.-- up by 42% in the last year alone, according to customs and border patrol. el paso mayor dee margo, a republican just like the president, says a wall is not a solution. >> reporter: we are a sovereign nation, we need to protect our borders. it won't all be physical barriers, they help channel things, it will be technology and it will be manpower. >> reporter: mireya villarreal, cbs news, dallas. >> begnaud: state department spokeswoman heather nauert is withdrawing her name from consideration as the next united nations ambassador. she was picked after nikki hailey announced her resignation last year. the former fox news anchor cited "family reasons," for her reason to withdraw. but a senior official tells cbs news a "nanny issue" came up during her vetting and most likely would have been problematic during her congressional hearing. there is a big interview airing tonight on cbs. in his first interview since being fired, former f.b.i. deputy director andrew mccabe is speaking out. he tells scott pelley why he opened up investigations involving president trump. >> i was speaking to the man who had just run for the presidency and won the election for the presidency. and who might have done so with the aid of the government of russia, our most formidable adversary on the world stage. and that was something that troubled me greatly. >> how long was it after that that you decided to start the obstruction of justice and counterintelligence investigations involving the president? >> i think the next day i met with the team investigating the russia cases. and i asked the team to go back and conduct an assessment to determine where are we with these efforts and what steps do we need to take going forward. i was very concerned that i was able to put the russia case on absolutely solid ground in an indelible fashion that, were i removed quickly or reassigned or fired, that the case could not be closed or vanish in the night without a trace. i wanted to make sure that our case was on solid ground, and if somebody came in behind me and closed it and tried to walk away from it, they would not be able to do that without creating a record of why they've made that decision. >> you wanted a documentary record-- >> that's right. >> --that those investigations had begun, because you feared that they would be made to go away. >> that is exactly right. >> begnaud: you can see scott pelley's full interview with former f.b.i. deputy director andrew mccabe tonight on "60 minutes." coming up on the "cbs weekend news," why debt is causing car owners to lose their rides. and in florida, a group of jail inmates come to the rescue of an adorable young girl. eart? well, i'm managing my a1c, so i should be all set. right. actually, you're still at risk for a fatal heart attack or stroke. even if i'm taking heart medicine, like statins or blood thinners? yep! that's why i asked my doctor what else i could do... she told me about jardiance. that's right. jardiance significantly reduces the risk of dying from a cardiovascular event for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease. that's why the american diabetes association recommends the active ingredient in jardiance. and it lowers a1c? yeah- with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. symptoms include nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, and trouble breathing. a rare, but life-threatening, bacterial infection in the skin of the genital area could also occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. symptoms of an allergic reaction include rash, swelling, and difficulty breathing or swallowing. do not take jardiance if you are on dialysis or have severe kidney problems. other side effects are sudden kidney problems, genital yeast infections, increased bad cholesterol, and urinary tract infections, which may be serious. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. so, what do you think? 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is this something, when this happens you go, "hmmm, we've go to watch this"? >> yeah, it's in the category of things that makes you go, "hmmmmm." i don't see how you can see a number like that and think, "oh, everything is just going hunky- dory for everybody and we don't need to worry about it." >> reporter: the new york fed says a large part of the problem involves borrowers under 30 with low credit scores, just the kind of people who may find it hard to buy a car and pay off student loans at the same time. chicago. >> begnaud: still ahead, the biggest crackdown in 25 years on dietary supplements that are taken by millions of americans. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's? the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i just turned 80. what's my price? 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or one that's good for my teeth? now i don't have to choose. from crest 3d white. the whitening therapy collection. now with charcoal or coconut oil. it gently whitens. plus, it has a fortifying formula to protect your enamel. crest. healthy, beautiful smiles for life. i need help getting an appointment with my podiatrist. unitedhealthcare, how's wednesday at 2? dog agility. thursday at 10? robot cage match. the 28th at 3? done. with unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans, it's easier to get the care you need. >> bna tonight with a voyage to the bottom of the sea, where modern tools help transport us back in time. mark phillips got to join the crew, searching for a legendary u.s. warship. >> ey-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi! >> reporter: rob kraft, shipwreck hunter, he may have found something. >> you know, you just hate to throw it out there on the table. >> reporter: he's aboard the research vessel, "petrel," hundreds of miles from anywhere in the south pacific searching for an american war-grave that has been lost for 77 years. >> here we go. >> reporter: his tools, the latest technology: an underwater drone that scans the ocean floor three-and-a-half miles down. >> enemy planes scored several hits on the hornet. >> reporter: the "u.s.s. hornet" was an aircraft carrier involved in the crucial 1942 battle for guadalcanal. it would be her last battle. 140 of her crew were killed that day, the rest were ordered to abandon ship before she went down. but, where exactly? this is needle in a haystack country is what you're talking about? >> yeah, absolutely. >> reporter: rob and the crew have to guess where to search, using the rough positions reported by other ships at the time. >> let's start bringing it in nice and slow. >> reporter: the drone resurfaces, it's hours of recorded images show mile after mile of empty seabed. until... how about in the top left? what does that look like? that looks suspiciously like a ship. to find out if it is the ship, they launch another tool: a remote-controlled sub with live cameras. it dives 17,000 feet down through a dark, strange world, where a ghost ship emerges. >> this is it, this is hornet. >> reporter: this is hornet? >> this is hornet. >> reporter: well done. >> the actual fact that you can find these ships is mind- boggling to me. >> reporter: richard nowatzki was an 18-year-old gunner on the hornet that day. he's 95 now. we set up a video link from the ship to california so he could see the hornet again, even the gun he was on. does it seem like a familiar place? >> yes, it does. i used to stand on the right side of that gun. if you go down to my locker, there's 40 bucks in it, you can have it. ( laughs ) >> reporter: silent guns, the hanger deck, discarded clothing, a wash kit-- testaments to those who had fought and died here. >> there were a lot of them, and young guys. you realize that you could be a dead person, you know? i want to thank you for honoring me this way. >> reporter: but it is those who found the hornet who are honored, and a memorial, a lost grave, now has a place. mark phillips, cbs news, in the south pacific. >> begnaud: what a story, right? and what an assignment for mark phillips. that is the "cbs weekend news" for us this sunday. later tonight on cbs, "60 minutes." i'm david begnaud at the broadcast center in new york. for all of us at cbs news, thank you for watching and have a good night. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org up.. and leaving the crew -- with a now at 6:00, a hot air balloon goes down hard in a bay area marsh, leaving passengers shaken up, leaving the crew with a nightmare clean up job. good evening to you i'm juliette goodrich. >> i'm brian hackney. 12 people on the balloon when it made a sudden landing near vallejo. no one was seriously hurt, but the area was so swampy. rescuers needed a helicopter to reach them. >> the balloon splashed down in a marsh near the napa river just after 10:00 a.m., taking off from the sonoma sky park. that's where kpix 5 katie nielsen has exclusive video of the rescue. katie? >> reporter: emergency responders told us the pilot told them after the rescue that this morning, when they were flying, winds were pushing the balloon about 50 miles an hour, so he decided to land in the marsh area. then when the tide came up, they needed the chp helicopter to come in and help. >> it had a blight balloon on it, standing out pretty well amongst the balloons standing on it. >> reporter: the chp helicopter pilot, rich jones, the one who first spotted that down balloon and recorded everything he was seeing, using the on board cameras. >> we were able to use the camera systems to zoom in and start getting the head count. we could see everybody was up on their feet, so it did not appear they were injured. >> reporter: the balloon pilot did not want to talk to us on camera, but told us the balloon took off from the usual location at sonoma sky park at sunrise, which this morning was right around 7:00 a.m. he said there were 11 passengers on board. half were staff members of the balloon company sonoma ballooning adventures. the rest were paying guests. spear said the plan was
united states, and he is upholding his duty. >> melissa: but democrats aren't backing down. senator tammy duckworth criticizes the move this weeken weekend. >> frankly, i think there are enough people in the senate who are concerned that what he is doing is robbing from the military and the dod to go build this wall. it's really not even the best way to fight the crisis. that there is one at the border. >> melissa: lets go left a chief white house correspondent john roberts for more. >> melissa, good afternoon to you. it's presidents' day and there are a lot of people who are not at work today. many of them have taken to the streets at cities across america. he could probably hear somebody on a bullhorn behind me. moveon.org -- this is that lafayette park directly across from the white house. they insist of the opposition to the president's emergency declaration is a purely political. here is stephen miller, the president's chief policy advisor on "fox news sunday" yesterday. >> i guarantee you this -- if donald trump says he's invoking the construction authority to build a security perimeter in ir afghanistan or around a military installation in syria, there would not have been one word of objection from congress. this is defending our own country. >> you mentioned some lawsuits that are on the way. public citizen has already it filed a lawsuit. the aclu and california attorney general javier becerra and others are planning to bring lawsuits against the declaration. democrats in congress planning legislation before they return from this week's recess to block the decoration is low. he was the chairman of the house intelligence committee, adam schiff, talking about that. >> this is the first time a president has tried to declare an emergency when congress expressly rejected funding for the particular project that the president is advocating. >> white house officials believe they are on solid legal ground with the emergency declaration that white house attorneys and attorneys at the doj spent weeks going through all of this. and if congress does pass legislation to block it, the president may veto that legislation. that would be his first veto. keep in mind, about half of the money that's been identified by the president so far can be gotten without that emergency declaration. this is money from the treasury department's forfeiture fun, it's money that is included in antidrug efforts from the pentagon, and then there are some other pots of money that have to be either transferred over using reprogramming authority or then when you get to the military construction money, that is money that needs to be tapped using the emergency declaration. here's what mercedes schlapp from the white house said earlier about how the president can get access to that money. >> those pots of money, we can start building immediately. we can start working with our contractors. the president met last week with the general from the u.s. army corps of engineers to get this process going. the president wants to move fast. he recognizes that this problem has been festering for decades. >> so, melissa, we look at these various pots of money -- she's got the $1.73 billion from congress. that's to build 55 miles of fencing. then he's got $601 million from the treasury forfeiture fund. he can get that to me daily. that he's got about $300 million that is currently in the antidrug pentagon fund. those pots of money, really, nobody else can touch parade they can't really argue too much about it. when the president starts to reprogram money from the dod -- that's about $2.2 billion -- that's when congress will likely start to get upset. because many members of congress want that money in their own districts. when he goes after the military construction budget, bar the door. >> melissa: terrific analysis they are on that. thank you so much. coming up, we have more in our top story from special assistant to president trump who is not a member of the trump 2020 advisory board. i'm going to ask him if he thinks declaring a national emergency was the right move, with respect to the 2020 campaign. that's about 15 minutes away. >> the discussion of the 25th amendment was simply that rod raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort. >> melissa: former acting fbi director andrew mccabe in an interview on "60 minutes" last night, saying deputy attorney general rod rosenstein floated the idea of secretly recording and potentially removing president trump from office. now the president is lashing out, tweeting today, "wow it, so many lies by disgrace acting fbi director andrew mccabe. he was fired for lying, and now his story gets even more deranged. he had rod rosenstein, was hired by jeff sessions -- another beauty -- looks like they were planning a very illegal act and got caught." chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge's live in washington with the latest. catherine? >> thanks, melissa, and good afternoon. when you take a deep dive, there are inconsistencies between the "60 minutes" interview and congressional testimony. over how far discussions went on the 25th amendment. on "60 minutes," mccabe said the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein raised the issue in a preliminary way. >> rosenstein was actually openly talking about whether there was a majority of the cabinet who would vote to remove the president. >> that's correct. counting votes, or possible votes. >> did he assign specific votes to specific people? >> no, not that i recall. >> this video from october shows former fbi council james baker who worked alongside mccabe and was part of those discussions. he testified behind closed doors about the conversations with mccabe, and another for a lawyer, about what exactly rosenstein said. baker told house investigators he believed rosenstein's 25th amendment efforts one further. fox news has confirmed sections of the baker transcript. "i had the impression that the deputy attorney general had already discussed this with two members of the president's cabinet. and that they were on board with this concept already." house republicans who got the testimony from mccabe and other senior fbi and doj officials over year, city of concerns and still wanted to be that of the beer after his old boss james comey was fired by the president. >> any mccabe was 1 of 4 people to walk into the oval office and interview with donald trump to become the fbi director. so how do you go from, "i think of the russian government committing treason," to eight days later, "i think you're committing treason, but i would sure love a job working for you every day." >> he also told "60 minutes" of the conversations about rosenstein wearing a wire ended immediately, saying baker had a "heart attack" over the proposal. but baker testified under oath that the wire discussions went beyond one meeting, lasting a couple of days. for context, that transcribed interview with baker behind closed doors on capitol hill -- if he lied or misled investigators, there are criminal penalties for doing so in that case, melissa. >> melissa: thank you for setting that table for us and putting all the facts out. we are going to follow up on that right now. let's bring in a congressman andy biggs of the house judiciary committee. that is, of course, the same panel where former fbi lawyer james baker testified last fall about the senior doj officials' discussions about invoking the 25th amendment, with which catherine herridge said prelim ask you -- how does we heard from andrew mccabe on "60 minutes" track with what james baker told your committee? >> i think what james baker said, one got the impression that this was really serious, it was an active effort, and it was an effort to subvert the will of the american people. it was conspiracy, in some respects. what mr. mccabe said in 60 minutes yesterday, but i got from that is that it was kind of preliminary. not as serious as one -- look, you come away from the james baker testimony and say, "this was really serious." they were seriously considering wiretapping the president, and that they would be people who might have already been contacted in the cabinet to see if there was the will to invoke the 25th amendment. that's the difference. he's downplaying a little bit. he didn't downplay it at all, it seems very serious. >> melissa: what were his sources? was hearing this information from mccabe? was he hearing it from rod rosenstein? i know lisa page was a piece of that, too. was he hearing this from? >> the testimony indicated it was mccabe and lisa page. don't forget, she was the attorney for mccain. they would have been right there. of course, it becomes hearsay because they had talked to rod rosenstein. i don't recall mr. baker saying that he had heard it directly from rosenstein. >> melissa: if you listen to the interview last night, one of the things that really struck me was that mccabe really hung it all on rod rosenstein. he was like -- "i was sitting in this room, and i thought, "how did i get here?" rosenstein is the one who's almost thinking out loud about this idea of invoking the 25th amendment. kind of drawing mccabe in. is that the way at the picture was kind of painted to you guys in the committee by james baker, or is this kind of a new way of framing things? >> that's not really the way i took it from the baker testimon testimony. i took it really that rosenstein was a big instigator, but that mccabe was in there, as well. don't forget, anything that andrew mccabe says is now taken with suspicion. he has been -- he is a proven liar. he is a known liar. so his credibility is always going to be questioned. i'm trying to figure out why he is kind of softening anything -- but what he softening is always his role in what was going on. that's what he was doing. that seems consistent with somebody who hasn't really been truthful or honest to his own agency and to the american people. >> melissa: also, when the interview last night -- he sort of backed away from these other two people were in the cabinet who had been reached out to come or who were in theory onboard, potentially, with the idea of removing the present. he said, "oh, i don't know." as we heard from catherine herridge, it sounds like james baker thought it was a much more advanced on that front. you think he knows who the two people where? do those two people really exist? i don't know -- how do we find that out? what was your impression of that situation? >> i think you are spot on. i think baker indicates very clearly that this is a very serious thing. it's ongoing. he talks about the discussions for rosenstein wearing a wire, taking several days. and he implies -- he doesn't imply, he states -- that he understood basically that rosenstein is already counting votes. on the other hand, mccabe is basically saying, "look, i don't know what was really going on. he said it, i don't know." he is, again, softening what was happening. in any way you look at it, this is a very serious situation. probably unprecedented in american history. maybe the biggest scandal in american history, when you got the highest levels of the police state talking about ways to effectively overthrow the elected president. >> melissa: did they clarify why? that's why -- with the collusion of russia, he just said his capacity and his intent as president. but did james baker say it was because of the russia thing or because of thinking that he was crazy? what was the reasoning for removing the president? >> what i took from it is, quite friendly, that they were upset regarding the relationship with the president and economy. comey's firing. that they viewed that as indication that he is not capable of governing. >> melissa: congressman andy biggs come i you for coming out. i appreciate it. great insight there. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez still celebrating amazon's decision to ditch plans for a new headquarters in new york city. during the week and speech in the bronx, she said that new yorkers deserve dignified jobs and shouldn't have to settle for "scraps." but new york congressman peter king disagrees with that analysis. >> this is a disaster. an absolute disaster. it's almost like putting a sign up that you can't do business in new york. nothing is ever perfect, but in this case, this was as close to a deceiver going to get. if joe crowley was still congressman, i wouldn't have happened. as a leader of the democratic party new york, andrew cuomo has a sanity's people. he has to take the progressive left that they can't take over his party and take over the city in the state, which is what's happening. >> melissa: david lee miller joins us now with more. scrap jobs -- they were good salaries. >> some state significant. we have two members of congress offering different perspectives on plans to open open the sequs in your city. peter king describes, as we just heard, a disaster. alexandria ocasio-cortez sees it as a victory. speaking saturday at a ceremony at a local school, alexandria ocasio-cortez never mentioned amazon by name but it was clear she was talking about the internet retailing giant when she did mention unacceptable jobs. >> we need to create dignified jobs in new york city. jobs that pay well. jobs that contribute to community. jobs that are part of a moral economy. >> ocasio-cortez and her supporters rejected the deal for a number of reasons, including $3 billion in tax breaks. congressman peter king fired back during a radio interview saying that revenue from amazon would have improved the area's overall economy. >> they are working people. the bartenders, the waiters, the people who benefit from this pair the cabdrivers. it's a lot. this whole phony arguments that they are getting $3 billion in incentives? that was all negotiated. >> meanwhile, mayor bill de blasio pointed the finger at amazon for not being willing to have a meaningful discussion with critics. >> let's be clear -- no one chased away. this was amazon's arbitrary decision. >> and what does amazon have to say about all this customer well, a spokesman for company since congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez is invited to tour their facilities and see for yourself how the company treats employees. they say they offer excellent pay and benefits from the first day on the job. you might recall, melissa, that in greek mythology, amazons are strong powerful women. arguably what we have here is one amazon taking on another. >> melissa: oh, my goodness. david lee miller, thank you. meanwhile, fox news has learned that ceo jeff bezos briefly considered buying the "national enquirer"'s parent company for $1 billion and closing down the tabloid after it exposed his extramarital affair. but he and his confidantes ultimately deemed it too risky. bezos has accused the "national enquirer" of trying to blackmail him after obtaining some intimate photos. allegations the ceo david parker has denied. with an already packed primary field, joe biden and bernie sanders inch closer to announcing their 2020 bids. we'll discuss the impact they could have on the race, which already has a growing diverse list of competitors. plus, a stunning twist in the case of actor's jussie smollett. why chicago police are now shifting the focus of their investigation. ♪ your mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. your doctor should perform blood tests before and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. don't let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. don't let another morning go by without talking to ♪ wake up sweetie. ♪ doctor dave. ♪ here's your order. applebee's to go. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ensure max protein... to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. 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(cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. the latest inisn't just a store.ty it's a save more with a new kind of wireless network store. it's a look what your wifi can do now store. a get your questions answered by awesome experts store. it's a now there's one store that connects your life like never before store. the xfinity store is here. and it's simple, easy, awesome. refugees at our border.lause] the american people understand. >> former vice president joe biden appearing to inch closer to jumping into the already crowded 2020 democratic primary field, slamming president trump's treatment of european allies at a security conference over the weekend, among other things. in the meantime, senator bernie sanders also getting close, reportedly filming a 2020 campaign announcement. so what impacts what they have on the race? draining me now is boston globe political reporter james pennell. thank you so much for joining us. first of all, a lot made up of the general's age. and it was time around we were having the same conversation about 2016. is that a factor? it's not like president trump is a spring chicken. >> [laughs] true. among democrats, they may be affected. as you know, we are in a moment of generational change when democrats are looking to much younger people, looking to see what's fresh and what's new. you know, the selection takes cline basically after the for a generation. so now people are wanting to see what is fresh. they are looking on derek tell mike younger, but at the same time, you will like joe bernie sanders are up there. democrats really want to win. if either one of those guys can make that argument that they are the ones who can beat trump, i guess it'll be better for them in the primary. >> melissa: it's interesting point. the clintons going off, all the sudden there has been this explosion of candidates that have come out. i'm sure it's very healthy for the party to kind of look into every corner. appealing to young people doesn't necessarily mean that the candidate has to be young himself. those one of the most surprising things about bernie sanders' appeal the last time around. that is following was very young. they liked his ideas. who do you think he would be the biggest threat to? who would he take away from come bernie sanders? >> in terms of the primary? yeah, look -- this is a contest right now we can see that we are not quite sure where the wings are. if there is an establishment lane, if there is a moderate lane, or anyone else jumping in and the left wing lane. certainly prisonlike bernie sanders is going to have to contend with elizabeth warren this will come to at a new hampshire. they both neighboring senators. neighboring states. ideologically, of course, very much aligned when it comes to a lot of the income inequality with the economic populism issues. they may differ when it comes to foreign policy or other topics. but that's really that he's going to either take with him or be threatened by her. >> melissa: looking at joe biden, a lot of people say that he has turned so many times before and he has got done for so i would be different this time? does he fit a niche that doesn't exist right now on that side? is there somebody who is more moderate or is possibly more appealing on a national scale across party lines once he got out of the primary? >> you will look at folks like michael bloomberg, who clearly was a republican and was in the dependent who will be making arguments. he will have much more crossover appeal. but right now in the polling -- again, this is basically largely name i.d. and has nothing to do with the fact of where people stand on positions, but democrats do know who joe don mike joe biden's, of course. and they think that he currently poses the best shot to be donald trump. when joe baden don mike biden has been running for president every time since 1980, elect two major things. it wasn't name i.d., particularly 2008. it was an inability to raise money and inability to create a political infrastructure previewed might believe that right now we could do both, but i remind you, he wasn't able to in 2016 when hillary clinton inherited the obama infrastructure and the money. i'm not so sure he could do it right now, either. >> melissa: interesting. we will watch. james pindell, thank you. we appreciate it. former democratic congressman anthony weiner now released from federal prison after serving 15 months behind bars. he was originally ordered to serve 21 months in prison for sexting with a minor print he will not survive his or her many months at a halfway house in new york city. he is scheduled for a full release in may. the fight over president trump's national emergency declaration ramping up and made continued backlash and legal challenges, but could the trump campaign use the border wall show down to its advantage in 2020? we'll talk about that with the president's former special assistant, and that's max. ♪ alice loves the smell of gain so much, she wished it came in a fabric softener too. [throat clears] say hello to your fairy godmother, alice. oh and look they got gain scent beads and dryer sheets too! about 50% of people with evesevere asthma k? have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. lawmakers coming down on facebook today choosing the social media joinder makes giving report about potentially violating privacy and anticompetition laws in the united kingdom. the report also calls for greater oversight on social media companies. greg palkot's live in london with more. greg? >> tough words from u.k. politicians about facebook, melissa. "digital gangsters." that's about as tough as you can get. the commission of an 18 month long report study by a u.k. parliament committee saying that facebook's corporate structure designed to "conceal knowledge of responsibility on specific decisions regarding fake news, disinformation, and wrongful targeting of data and users." they particularly slammed ceo mark zuckerberg. the city failed to show leadership and personal responsibility. remember, he showed up before a congressional hearing last year. he refused to come over here to the u.k. to speak before this parliamentary committee. the probe was spurred on also last year by where that this u.k.-based firm, cambridge analytica, swiss miss using facebook data for the trump campaign. but there are questions also about russian meddling and the brexit campaign, for example. another election campaign. doesn't target exact laws put in place, but mentioned some guidelines. they're pretty tough digital privacy rules here in the u.k. and the e.u., rules that aren't also being looked at right now by the u.s. also, efforts to politicize the digital cyber space being looked at on both sides of the pond. as for facebook, we got a bit of a reaction to today's release from the committee. they say they share the committee's concerns about false news and election integrity, and they say they are open to meaningful regulation. there could be more coming again from the u.k. in the u.s. and what could be another tough year for the tech giants in 2019. back to you, melissa. >> melissa: greg palkot, thank you. the white house defending president trump's national emergency declaration amid fierce backlash. one of the president -- using it to go my supporters. pointing out the terms team is also don mike already fund-raising over his showed i democrats. let's bring in the former assistant to president trump, marc lotter. former prosecutor for vice president pence, member of the term of 2020 advisory board. think of you joining us. is that true? is it already a foot deli fund-raising issue for a camping a camping question at >> we often send out emails telling his comp assurance of things he's doing to fight with democrats. actually, to deliver on the things he promised he was going to deliver to the american people. >> melissa: i wonder if when you're creating strategy and he lays out of the court is granted challenge and cope this goes to the circuit and the supreme court in bolin, do you worry that it galvanizes the left? because it puts that focus on the supreme court and how important it is to have your president in office who can nominate judges. >> when you look at the democrats, they are radicalized and their bases always radicalized. they wake up every morning that president trump is in office and they are against that. anything that he says, does, or believes in. i'm not worried about energizing the left. what will do, though, as it will be another example of the president delivering on the promises he made. that is really -- it's not integration. if you paid attention to the 2016 campaign, that was one part of the president's argument. he was about fighting for making jobs, fighting for american workers, and in bad deals that put us at a disadvantage on the international stage. he delivered on those promises. he's going to highlight that in 2020. the things that he has delivered, the 5.3 million jobs. but is also going to talk about where he wants to go in the future. that's what this will be about. >> melissa: people make the argument that a move like this is great for president trump with his base, but it alienates the people in the margin who feel like it's a bridge too far -- it's president to overreach to declare that national emergency that he had. it's only that one piece of money that he gets from the national emergency. this shows going too far in alienating people in the middle. how do you respond to that? >> that puts the pressure on us to better communicate. when president clinton called the day national emergency about conflict diamonds being imported from africa, or investment in angola being a national emergency, i don't disagree with every those decisions. was it an actual threat to our nation or its citizens? no. it was the right political action or the right policy decision to make. so the use of a national emergency is a legal mechanism to be able to get the things done that we need to get done. because of the president is doing. >> melissa: in the way that you just said that, "this is a threat?" and makes it sound like all the people coming over the border are a threat to our security. i understand the drugs and the mules on the drug trafficking and those that are coming with bad intentions. but that sets up the president to then be next to pictures of people who are trying to immigrate here because they either want a better life for they are facing and security back home. to save his people are a threat makes it sound very -- and makes the president sound hostile. again, it hurts those folks in the middle. >> one of the things is that we need more illegal immigration to our country. we have more available jobs right now than we do unemployed people for the first time in the history of our country. >> melissa: you don't have to convince me. what would he do to show that? he said that during this evening union, which is great. "i want more people to come here than ever before, i just want them to do the right way." what action could they take? people doubt that he needs that. >> i think he can continue to call on congress. it will be up to congress to try and change those immigration laws. that is something presidents of both parties have been called for, and congress has refused to do it. >> melissa: they do to do that you don't like job. marc lotter, thank you. a stunning twist in a crime against "empire" actor, speech health. now chicago police say they no longer consider him a victim in the case and want to interview him again. we have a report ahead. ♪ stop fearing your alarm clock... with zzzquil pure zzzs. a drug-free blend of botanicals with melatonin that supports your natural sleep cycle so you can seize the morning. zzzquil pure zzzs. oh! oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? 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at newday usa, veteran homeowners can get 54,000 dollars or more to consolidate high rate credit card debt and lower their payments by 600 dollars every month. go to newdayusa.com, or call 1-855-newdayusa. >> melissa: a vigil held in aurora, illinois yesterday for the victims of friday's deadly shooting at henry pratt company. five crosses were laid in front the manufacturing facility. one for each of the victims, who were all employees of the facility, including an intern who was on his first day there. at least 11 others were hurt including five police officers. the alleged gunman was shot to death by police at the scene. new developments in the investigation into the alleged hate crime against "empire" actor, jussie smollett. chicago police say they no longer consider him a victim in the case and are seeking a follow-up interview. mike tobin's life in chicago with the latest. mike? >> the statement was issued a short time ago saying that smollett will not submit to this follow-up interview police are suggesting from them, at least not today. the statement says smollett's lawyers are of maintaining an active dialogue with police on his behalf and they will issue no further public statements today. over the weekend, police said smollett is no longer considered a victim. police stopped short of saying he is a suspect involved in a hoax, but police did say they have new information and want to bring smollett and for more questioning. this follows police detaining two brothers from nigeria. the source save the medical operated. on the most police sources said the men were paid by smollett to sage stage the attack and they even rehearse it. they had a receipt for the rope that was allegedly put around smollett's neck. they say the evidence developed through their interrogation was enough to let the brothers go. >> my guys are watching dominic walking home, they are not charged. they are not subjects in this case. >> did jussie smollett set this up? >> there still a lot of moving parts to this. >> police have been communicating today. for the most part they are just repeating statement, that they've gotten information and they want to bring smollett in for questioning. melissa? >> melissa: let's bring in ted williams, former washington, d.c., police detective. thank you for joining us to. would you make of this? >> let me just say this -- alluding to be read news alert. jussie smollett will never go in for another interview with law enforcement. it doesn't take rocket science to know there was something significantly smelly about this whole incident. on january 29th, at around 2:30 in the morning, he is coming from a subway. he went to get some food. and here are two guys saying, "empire, empire." and they attack him and say "make america great again," use the kind of linkage. and put a noose around his neck. he goes to the hospital with a noose around his neck. this smelled from the beginning, melissa. then what they found, with these two nigerian brothers. they left the country, by the way, the day after this incident. they came back into the country. law enforcement officers initially separated them. they got confessions from both of these guys, and now they are using these guys and a grand jury against this guy, jussie smollett. >> melissa: you say he will never go into another interview? can he avoid that? >> absolutely. if he was interview, yes. what happened is that he is now moving from being a victim to a suspect. once you become a suspect, you are advised of your miranda rights. at that time you do not have to make any further statements. >> melissa: what do you think comes of this? i don't know what kind of charges he could face in the area if he did make it. do you think that they would go that far, to go after them at that point? >> absolutely. you can expect that the chicago police department will throw the book at this guy if the evidence is presented. that is that he would be looking at lying, during the course of an official police investigation. that is a class four felony. he's looking to up to three years on that charge alone. i would have to believe when they release those two nigerian brothers that they agree to cooperate -- meaning those brothers -- and it wouldn't surprise me if they had them to try and put into small smolletn order to corroborate. >> melissa: it's a sad story no matter how you slice it. i appreciate your time. a former top house republican says that former acting fbi director andrew mccabe should be on trial, not on a book tour. after his explosive claims in a "60 minutes" interview, our power panel away and, next. ♪ ♪ when cravings hit, hit back. choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. and how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months - the kind of clearance that can last. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms. numbers are great. and seeing clearer skin is pretty awesome, too. that's what i call a body of proof. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. want more proof? ask your dermatologist about humira. this is my body of proof. when it comes to reducing the evsugar in your family's diet,m. coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. we're working together to do just that. bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels and reminders to think balance. because we know mom wants what's best. more beverage choices, smaller portions, less sugar. balanceus.org >> dana: hi, everyone. i'm dana perino. peter doocy caught up with cory booker in new hampshire just moments ago. he would tell you what booker is now calling a lie. plus we have a new statement from jussie smollett's lawyers about whether or not he will talk to authorities today, after the case took a major turnover to begin. and president trump firing back at andrew mccabe in his "60 minutes" interview. got all of that and on "the daily briefing" ." >> melissa: back now, one of our top stories -- republicans are slamming former fbi acting director andrew mccabe after explosive claims to 60 minutes that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein was furious about secretly recording the president and floated invoking the 25th amendment. now former house oversight committee chairman jason chaffetz writing in a fox news op-ed for the first time that he was active directory of the fbi. he of all people knew the rules, the law, any other responsibility to tell the truth. he had come his own colleagues found that he lied. in fact, he accomplished something federal employees rarely accomplish that she was ultimately fired for his offenses. now he's on a book tour. he should be under prosecution privilege bring in our power panel. capri cafaro. and republican strategist ash. what do you think? >> he should be at least under investigation from the senate. i think he's right that he should be investigated. he has lied over and over again, and it's basically -- what is boiling down to is finger-pointing between the number two at the fbi in the form an average of the department of justice. to department that should be trusted by the america people hippie or having to determine who is lying after each department. i do think you should be under investigation and should be prosecuted. >> melissa: person, elizabeth wants a something different. she fixed the 25th amendment -- i think we have the test of the 25th amendment seems like it made sense in the situation. of its prefer for me to read. they go. "my point is that if they believe he cannot fulfill the obligation of his office, if the constitution responsibly to invoke the 25th amendment. their loyalty under laws not impersonally commenced with the constitution of the united states into the people of united states." capri, in the interview he never said why it was that they thought the president should be removed. >> that was my big take away. i think there are two very stark differences between what i think a lot of the american people have certainly reviewed this 25 minute conversation, it's a whole different issue of whether or not even. if it did, there is a difference between wanting to invoke the 25th amendment because you just don't like donald trump, because you are a sore loser, or whatever the reason. or if you actually have a bona fide concern about his abilities to execute his duties as president of the united states. and to prove those things with facts. there are two very separate things, here. unless we know which one was the motivating factor, i don't know that we will ever be able to determine whether or not it was appropriate or not. remember, the guy is on a book tour. there is some conflicting statements here. he goes down to 60 minutes and says, "yeah, we talked by the 25th amendment," but then his team wants it back? in the justice breyer reiterated rod rosenstein singh didn't happen. so who knows? >> you look at all the denials, they don't actually deny the same thing. there is a way for all those things which repair the talk about extended conversations about the 25th, and he says, "we didn't authorize anyone to wiretap." i don't know. there are people saying it's proof of the deep state. senator chris coons is this not reflect the deep state. listen. >> it's alarming that there were barely folks at the highest levels of our government considering whether our president is unfit to serve. i don't think this, frankly, rises to the level of some deep state conspiracy or a serious attempt at what senator graham called an administrative coup. >> right, so that the democrats thing. what this proves is that a lot of people close to the president think it's crazy or can't do the job. >> yeah, but this is individuals that were hanging around from the obama era inside that the fbi. and they obviously had some sort of vendetta against the present. when they went in to the president in may, it's clear from this that we know it all started in happen prior to the conversation of bringing the president. and that's where the conspiracy is actually -- you know, drawing in and creating the illegal activity that needs to be under investigation. >> i'm glad you brought that up, there was another interesting point about all this. he reframes that conversation that was had in trump tower. telling the president, "hey, by the way, you have james comey flying here and saying you're not a target of the investigation. we just want you to know." at the same time, before that they are considering taking him out of office. doesn't it change the light that you look at all those conversations under? >> it certainly can. any time you get more information that will inform and shape the previous information that you had. to her point, it's one of the reasons why there does need to be an investigation. we don't know whether or not there is anything here to rise to the level of prosecution, but democrats have said time and again in the house that they have a constitutional obligation for oversight. the senate republicans have the same. i think a fair investigation is warranted. >> melissa: thanks to both of you. i appreciate your time. more "outnumbered overtime" in just a moment. we will be right back. newday usa helps veteran homeowners get cash by using the powerful va home loan benefit we've earned with our service. the newday va cash out loan can help you get over 50,000 dollars to pay off the credit card debt, put cash in the bank, and reduce your payments by over 500 dollars a month. and since newday's been granted automatic authority by the va, they can say yes when banks say no. get the financial security you've earned and deserve. go to newdayusa.com, or call 1-855-newdayusa. you don't see psoriasis. you see clear skin. you see me. but if you saw me before cosentyx... ♪ i was covered. it was awful. but i didn't give up. i kept fighting. i got clear skin with cosentyx. 3 years and counting. clear skin can last. see if cosentyx could make a difference for you. cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease, tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. see me now. i'm still clear. how sexy are these elbows? 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"the daily briefing" with dana perino starts right now. >> dana: fox news alert. it's 2 p.m. in new york and we're following several developing stories. the white house vowing to defend president trump's national emergency declaration to build a wall in congress and court. north carolina officials launch a hearing to determine the fate of a congressional race left uncertain amid allegations of voter fraud. and the latest developments in the jussie smollett case as new questions arise about what really happened. i'm dana perino and this is "the daily briefing." president trump spending president's day in florida, where he is set to make a speech on the situation in venezuela. back in washington his administration is preparing to fighted back against any challenges to his emergency declaration on friday to free up $8 b
that's expected to start in 30 minutes. last night we got a better sense of the time line and what happened. we know the first 911 calls came from inside henry pratt company, this manufacturing complex in aurora, illinois, reporting shots fired. when police first arrived, they immediately took gunfire. two officers were shot, when more officers were shot, three more were shot. initial reports were that gary martin, the 45-year-old suspect was shooting out of a window, then police believe he retreated further inside the building. again, it is a manufacturing site, they make industrial valves. you can imagine there's likely a lot of machinery, industrial shelving, a lot of places for him to hide in a massive 29,000 square foot complex. at one point, the police chief said there were some 13 different teams of law enforcement who were going into get martin or get victims out and transported to the hospital. ultimately, it took an hour and a half to locate him. he died in exchange of gunfire. the big question here is why. people want to know what he was thinking, why he did this. police don't have an exact sense of his mindset, but say one likely contributing factor, he was just fired. listen. >> we know he was a 15 year veteran and information that we have indicates that he was being terminated today. >> did he bring a gun to the termination meeting? >> we don't know that, we don't know if he had the gun on him at the time or went to retrieve it. we don't have that information yet. >> reporter: what we know about the gun is it was a smith and wesson handgun. we're hoping to get more information about that, how many rounds he had on him, maybe giving a sense whether it was premeditated or spur of the moment. we're hoping for more clarification on the time line and names of the actual victims. all we know about them thus far is they're all male. as for the company, henry pratt company, its parent company put out a statement saying they were shocked and saddened, but provided no additional information on the actual event. we did see office workers coming in to the office this morning but beyond that, we have not heard from the company, fredricka. >> scott mclean, perhaps that will happen during that press conference where the police will be leading and we'll take that live. thank you so much. retired agent james galliano joining us now. what are you hoping to hear, what blanks do you want filled in from the press conference. >> sobering news story, almost on the one year verse of park land shooting. what would i be looking for, law enforcement and the public at large are interested in finding out what was the motivation. this appears to be workplace violence. as we learned in the past, recent incidents in the past, we have to be careful, slow walk it to find out if there was something more to this. it highlights difficulty law enforcement has when they arrive on scene, and the police in illinois did an amazing job. four minutes after the 911 call, they were making entry. we learned post columbine 20 years ago, you have to go to the sight of the guns. >> talking about a plant, scott was underscoring the kind of machinery there. this creates real obstacles for police arriving, and not, we don't know if they had detail on what portion of the plant in which the shooting was taking place, where activity was. >> absolutely. when officers arrive on the scene, they arrive in an information vacuum. all they know is somebody is exchanging gunfire, shooting people. they don't know if there are accomplices, a single shooter, don't know if it is a hate crime, domestic dispute, workplace violence, mentally disturbed person. all those things. what we learned post columbine, go to sound of the guns, interdict quickly as possible. in a situation like this there could have been a barricaded situation which is what we learned, the furious exchange of gunfire was in the first five to seven minutes, standard in these things. then took law enforcement 90 minutes to reach him. we don't know if he killed himself or killed by police. huge venue, you had to clear every inch of the place. >> learning whether gary martin came in with a weapon anticipating he was going to be fired or whether he was fired and left, at that time we didn't know, left and came back, that will help determine what kind of security measures potentially that this huge plant may have to consider for the future. >> very difficult. 21st century technology. we live in a country we treasure civil liberties. unless we turn it into a police state where you're screening people going room to room, it will be very difficult. i'm sure there are lessons learned, anxious to see what the police determine after this was involved and how to get in front of the next one, try to keep americans safe. >> thanks for joining me. >> thanks, fred. vice president biden showing off foreign policy skills on the world stage as questions linger about whether he will join the 2020 presidential race. alright, i brought in ensure max protein... to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. 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(cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. ♪ 'cos i know what it means ♪ to walk along the lonely street of dreams ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. former vice president joe biden has not said if he will seek the democratic presidential nomination, but today he showed off some of his foreign policy credentials. biden told a major global security conference in munich he does not have any hesitations when it comes to european security. >> i strongly support nato. i believe it is the single most significant military alliance in the history of the world and i think it has been the basis upon which we've been able to keep peace and stability for the past 70 years, and it is the heart of our collective security, it is the basis upon which the united states is able to exercise its responsibilities in other parts of the world as well. >> so how was biden's message received by european allies? >> reporter: well, the former vice president came here to munich to stress the importance of the u.s. relationship with european allies, as you heard in that sound bite, he talked about the importance of nato, working to strengthen it, also said it is very important the u.s. continue to build relationships with allies saying that the president at times, not specifically mentioning him by name, but did point out that there are a lot of times you hear fights playing out between the u.s. and other countries, and that that's something that shouldn't happen. they should work together behind closed doors to hammer out differences and rely on important relationship between the u.s. and european allies. a short time ago, the former vice president held a panel relating to election integrity. i had the chance to ask him about 2020 and where he is in his decision-making process. he told me he has not made a decision on 2020 just yet, that's not entirely surprising that he wouldn't announce that here in munich, but he said there's sufficient time for him to come to this decision and that he will be making it in the near future. he feels the political process is playing out a little early in the united states. biden is keeping not just people at home but in europe waiting. >> what kind of reception did he get? did it seem like he was like the man of the hour? >> reporter: i mean, at times during his speech he did seem like it sounded like he was a presidential candidate. a lot of people that were in that hall for the conference for his speech, there was a big u.s. delegation, we had cindy mccain attending, the former vice president gave a shoutout to her, as well as remembering the memory of senator john mccain, and nancy pelosi, john kerry. it was a very welcoming crowd to the former vice president. he has participated in this conference multiple times over the year, including last year when he had already left office. this is a familiar place for him to reconnect with some of those world leaders that he has known for a long time, as well as global security experts. for biden, this was opportunity to showcase his own foreign policy credentials as he weighs that 2020 run. >> and then you mentioned cindy mccain was there. did she have any response to the reference of the vice president, mike pence made in honor of john mccain, mentioning him and at the same time drawing comparisons to the current administration? >> we haven't heard from cindy mccain specifically about that statement that vice president mike pence made last night but she has been a regular figure along with her husband here at these krchconferences. john mccain used to lead the american delegation here for years. there are warm feelings from those that attend this regularly. it is unclear how she felt about the comment from mike pence, comparing him to president trump and his leadership today. >> all right. arlette signs, saenz. the time has come for european partners to stop undermining u.s. sanctions against this murderous rejeegim. the time has come for european partners to stand with us and the european people. allies and friends in the region. the time has come for european partners to withdraw from the iran nuclear deal and join us as we bring the economic and diplomatic pressure to give the iranian people, the region and the world the peace, security and freedom they deserve. >> senator bob menendez was also at the conference, he is a new jersey democrat, on the senate foreign relations committee. good to see you, senator. what are your thoughts on what the vice president said, urging others to join in withdrawal of the iran nuclear deal? >> well, i think we need to understand if we lecture less and lead more, we'll get further in terms of our goals. i really do believe that getting european allies to join us in all of the other elements of iran's nefarious activities, it is intercontinental ballistic missile development, still the largest sponsor of state terrorism, it is violation on the arms embargo. if you start there and get common ground with the your pee ands, i think the rest comes as relates to the nuclear agreement, and we'll be in perfect position. we'll start from a common ground. the europeans have their views that the agreement they entered into with iran and the united states at that time is the best way to deter iran from its nuclear ambitions. i disagree but i think we should find common ground on that which we do agree, they agree about iran's other nefarious activities, they just haven't acted on them. they need to act on them. >> do you agree with europeans or disagree that they were in compliance? >> well, those that administer the agreement say as relates to the agreement, iran is in compliance. the problem with the agreement is that there's a sunset clause, it will end in a few years. at the end of that period of time if there's no follow onto that agreement, then iran has a pathway to nuclear power that can be used for nuclear weapons. that's the fundamental problem with the agreement. it delayed iran's process towards a nuclear weapon, it did not end iran's ability to end up with a nuclear weapon. >> the vice president also addressed the u.s. troop pull out in syria. this is what he had to say. >> this is a change in tactics, not a change in mission. the united states will keep a strong presence in the region. we recognize it will not be enough to simply reclaim the territory of the caliphate. as we enter this new phase, the united states will continue to work with all our allies to hunt down the remnants of isis wherever and whenever they rear their ugly head. >> so the vice president said this is a change in tactics, not a change in mission. is it clear to you the direction the white house wants to go on syria? >> no. and as a matter of fact at this conference there's the largest congressional delegation in the history of the munich security conference, it is a bipartisan delegation, and almost unanimous vote of the voices here and from congress and the united states that a precipitous withdrawal from syria without engagement with our allies, without what is the follow on, how do you -- ending the physical elements of the caliphate is not the end of isis at the end of the day. to the extent we want allies to be on the ground in syria, are leaving absolutely by april, which is what the administration is saying, will not work. after so many lives and national treasure spent in the fight on terrorism, it would be a shame to ultimately leave a vacuum that will cause a whole host of problems, including the kurds that fought with us and alongside of us. if we leave them on the battlefield, they may be in for a slaughter. if that's the case, then the global message we send is don't fight for and with the united states, because when they're finished using you, they'll leave you to die on the battlefield. a horrible message. the bipartisan comments made here, including to the secretary, acting secretary of defense who was here, to tell the administration this precipitous withdrawal doesn't work, it is not in our national interest, and try to convince the president to change course. reuters is reporting the north korean dictate or kim jong-un will arrive in vietnam ahead of the summit with president trump in a few weeks. the president said he made great progress with north korea. do you see evidence of that? do you see their meeting, a second one, as hopeful? >> look, i'm always hopeful but i have to be honest with you, the first summit did not produce anything but again, not letting allies, south korea and japan know we were stopping military exercises. the first meeting did not even produce an agreement upon a definition of what does it mean to denuclearize the korean peninsula. so we walked away with nothing virtually. the president likes to say there are no more missile tests, no more other elements. the reason kim jong-un isn't doing missile tests is because he has done all of the testing he needs to test the efficiency of his missiles and weaponry. so he has given up nothing in that regard. i worry that the president is now going into another summit where we still don't have a definition that the united states and the western world has about what does it mean to denuclearize the korean peninsula. that means total verifiable ending of all weaponry that north korea has in this regard and its nuclear capability in this regard. i don't think that kim jong-un has signed on to that definition, and if he's not, what are we negotiating over? i really worry that the president for the success of the victory will accept far less than what is in the national interest and security of the united states. so i am hopeful that maybe something good can come out of it. when you start off a negotiation, when you don't even agree on the definition as to what you're trying to achieve, i think that's a problem. >> and there at the global summit, for so many years as senator john mccain led the u.s. delegation to this conference, and the vice president paid tribute to him, have a listen to the way in which he did it. >> i think john mccain was a man who was strong willed, hard headed. he believed in freedom, he believed in fighting for it. he believed in speaking truth to friends and challenging friends to step up for our ideals. and i'm pleased to say america has this leadership today. >> so what was your interpretation of what he was saying and any comparisons or parallels with john mccain's style of leadership and that of the current administration? >> well, i had the privilege of working with senator mccain when he was on the foreign relations committee with me on national security questions, on a whole host of things. john mccain believed strongly in the transatlantic alliance. he believed nato was an essential security element of the united states as well as europe. yes, he would challenge our allies but at the same token there was no doubt in nato's allies and in our western allies that the united states was going to be a constant partner, that we may disagree, for example, about how much you should be putting towards the success of nato in terms of contributions, but that nato itself is a rock solid foundation. i think that spending time here for the last two days is that many are concerned about the commitment of the united states under president trump to our collective alliance. the president has consistently berated nato, said it is an akr akronistic. this is the security architecture we helped create that has fwif enus peace and prosperity for the better part of three quarters of a century. we need to strengthen it, deal with new challenges, russian attacks and other challenges we have. that doesn't make nato obsolete, it makes nato evolve into new challenges of the 21st century. so i think people miss john mccain here. i certainly do. i certainly miss his voice in our u.s. foreign policy debate. he was a voice of reason and someone that always pursued national interest and security of the united states, but stu d understood it needed alliances to do that. >> when you're state side, we would love to have you back as we get closer to the north korea summit. >> absolutely. thank you. >> senator, thank you so much. all right sti. still ahead, prosecutors say they have the evidence of roger stone communicating with wikileaks. we'll talk about what it means next. one hour pickup order? got it. ran out of ink and i have a big meeting today. and 2 boxes of twizzlers... yeah, uh...for the team. the team? gooo team... order online pickup in an hour. today, save up to 50% at the chair event. at office depot officemax. just as important as what you get out of it? hair event. our broccoli cheddar is made with aged melted cheddar, simmered broccoli, and no artificial flavors. enjoy 100% clean soup today. 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important. it handles everything, and reaches everywhere. this is beyond wifi, this is xfi. simple. easy. awesome. xfinity, the future of awesome. all right. live pictures now of the location we're awaiting police update on the workplace shooting in illinois where police say a disgruntled worker opened fire killing five people, five of his co-workers the day he was to be fired. we'll bring you the latest on the update as soon as it happens. meantime, special counsel prosecutors now say for the first time they have evidence of roger stone communicating with wikileaks. a new court filing from the prosecutors say the evidence relates to release of democratic e-mails hacked and released during the 2016 presidential campaign. the full extent of the communication has not been revealed. cnn correspondent shimon probing a pez has more. >> reporter: prosecutors said the first time they have evidence of roger stone communicating with wikileaks, according to a new court filing from the special counsel office. it was during this investigation of russian hacks, clinton e-mails and podesta e-mails the government obtained and executed dozens of search warrants used to fa sicilitate stone document release and timing and promotion of their release. this is what the special counsel office said in their filing, they were able to learn that from these searches, several of the search warrants were executed on accounts that contained roger stone's communications with gussifer 2.0, a russian intelligence agency, and with organization one which is wikileaks. previously prosecutors had only o outlined how stone attempted to get in touch with wikileaks julian assange through intermediaries, and stone wanted to know what he had stolen from the democratic party and hoped for its release to help donald trump's campaign, prosecutors have said. the new filing providing no further details on what was contained in the communications between roger stone and wikileaks. there's no one known exchange, messages between wikileaks and stone. that was in february, 2018. the tlak said stone had direct messages and stone was asked to stop associating himself with the site. wikileaks and roger stone deny they were in contact about release of clinton e-mails. and prosecutors have not yet explained in full the extent of which stone actually reached out to wikileaks, making it very much apparent in this court filing this part of the investigation may not be over. >> with me to talk further, michael zeldin, former federal prosecutor, robert mueller's former special assistant at the department of justice, and paul cowan. apologies up front. we may be interrupted. i may have to go to the police update out of aurora, illinois as it happens minutes away. michael, you first. robert mueller says he has proof that roger stone communicated directly with wikileaks. how potentially pivotal is that? >> it depends on one's view of wikileaks. i have maintained and maybe i am an outlier, wikileaks has a first amendment free press status, that is that they exist in the world in the same way as "the washington post" and "new york times" when they distributed pentagon papers and panama papers, et cetera. roger stone's communication with wikileaks itself i don't think is actionable criminally because of the first amendment point of view. if, however, communications are between stone and gussifer 2.0, the hackers, the ones that committed the crimes, then i think criminal conspiracy could lie in that, so what we need to see is what is in the communications between stone and gussifer before we know if a criminal conspiracy could be put forward. >> so it is your opinion, michael, that wikileaks has the same kind of protections as a news organization, even though as far as we know they don't provide news content but they provide information. >> that's right. again, there are good minds that disagree with me on this, maybe better minds that disagree with me on this, but i believe when they're a distributor of news like the snowden stuff, they're under first amendment protection. cia director pompeo thinks tlaer a none state hostile intelligence service. if that's muf's view, then they would deal with them not as a media organization and intelligence service. i don't buy it. >> paul, how do you see it. roger stone has been down playing the development, he has already admitted to brief exchanges of messages with wikileaks and the hacker known as gussifer 2.0, but says it is not a big deal. is it? >> fred, i hesitate to disagree with michael now that he is named as a faculty member at harvard, however, i agree on the issue that wikileaks might in fact have first amendment protection, and i don't disagree with michael about that. as a matter of fact, i think what really this is about is the fact that remember, roger stone is charged with lying to congress about the nature of his contacts with wikileaks. so i think the focus will not be so much on the issue of weather it was legal for wikileaks to provide information, i think it is more roger stone lied about it. and that's a material part of the congressional investigation. >> why the lying? >> well, they don't even have to prove why he is lying, as long as it is material to an investigation and he lies under oath, that's a form of perjury. we all know why he would be lying about it, if wikileaks is providing information from russian intelligence which through this gussifer 2.0 contact we know happens to be true, then this starts to prove a collusion case against the president. it is very, very important in that respect. i think that the focus on it is probably going to have to do more with lying to congress than a charge against roger stone. >> michael, we also learned that the president's press secretary, sarah sanders was interviewed by the special counsel last year. you know, she has been, you know, distributing a certain narrative of the white house. would her narrative be further examined by the special counsel or is it her testimony or interview that weighs more heavily? >> so i think, fred, that what's going on here with mueller is he is exploring a theory of justice that includes the possibility that the president through his communications director, whether hope hicks or shawn spicer or sarah sanders was misleading to throw off investigators from the case. we know mueller believes that's an actionable case because he brought one of those cases already against another. so it makes sense that he would want to speak to sanders to play out that thread. but ultimately i think here what's at play is the prize of keeping the president out of an oral testimony situation. in order to do that he's got to provide mueller with all of the information he otherwise couldn't get from another witness. therefore, if sarah sanders and everybody gives him information that he would get from the president, he, therefore, mueller, has a chance of not being given the right to subpoena the president. i think that's what this is all about, keeping the president out of an oral interview. >> paul? >> i agree with michael on that. i think it sort of emphasizes the sad fact as well that the press secretary doesn't maybe get all of the inside scoop on what's going on in the oval office. she's tormented, of course, when she has to answer questions before the press but presidents have traditionally kept press secretary on a tight rein. when that is disclosed, you waive executive privilege, you publicly revealed a conversation. i think in the end her contacts with the president will as michael said, that might be a reason the president could be subpoenaed to testify himself, but i think that's the significance of it and the importance of it. >> all right. paul, michael, always good to see you. thanks so much. >> thank you, fred. still ahead, questions swirl around the alleged attack of "empire" star jessie smollett. why police released and didn't charge the two people in custody. 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spectacular career at the heart of power in washington and in rome. when the u.s. cardinals were summoned to the vatican by john paul ii in 2002 at the beginning of the sex abuse scandal, cardinal mccarrick was the reassuring face of the crisis, advocating zero tolerance for abusers, even as there were unrevealed allegations against him. >> i can't see how anyone in the united states today would cover up something like that. >> reporter: theodore mccarrick was created a cardinal in 2001 by john paul ii. around that time an american priest wrote to the vatican to warn of rumors the cardinal was sexually abusing seminaryians. no action was taken for years until under benedict xvi he was advised not to travel. >> we apologize having to interrupt that report. let's go to aurora for an update on the workplace shooting yesterday. >> review yesterday's time line by deputy chief keef, brief remarks from the chief of police, and followed by information from the assistant special agent in charge from the chicago field office. and we're going to follow that with a brief overview of yesterday's time line by deputy chief keith jackson, then following that, we return to chief ziman for brief questions. okay? >> good morning, everyone. i am kristin ziman, chief of police for aurora police department. before i give the update, i want to give heart felt thanks who citizens that delivered food, well wishes for officers in recovery. gratitude to law enforcement brothers and sisters from across the nation and beyond who reached out to us. it means so much to know you're sending positive energy for our officers that were injured, the responding officers and victims' families. as we relentlessly pursue questions on why a person could do such a thing, we feel the support from all of you, my cup runneth over. i want to begin by providing an update on the condition of our officers still being treated for their injuries related to yesterday's shooting incident. all five of our officers are recovering and under the care of physicians in the chicago metro area. officer one is a male, 39 years of age, 13 years of service here at the aurora police department. this officer suffered a gunshot wound to his lower extremity in stable condition at a local hospital. officer two, a male, 52 years of age, with 25 years of service at the aurora police department. this officer suffered a gunshot wound to his upper extremity. he was treated and will be released from the hospital later this morning. officer three is a male, 52 years old, with 24 years of service here at the aurora police department. he suffered a gunshot wound to the lower extremity. he was treated and released from the hospital yesterday. officer four, a male, 53 years of age, 30 years of service. this officer suffered a gunshot wound to the lower extremity and was treated in an area hospital. officer five, a male, 24 years of age, with just under four years of service. this officer suffered a series of shrapnel wounds to the upper extremity. he is currently treated and is in stable condition at a local hospital. officer six, a male, 23 years of age, two years of experience, is here at the aurora police department, he suffered a minor injury responding to the incident. the injury was not related to gunfire. all of the officers' injuries are considered nonlife-threatening. we would also like to provide limited information on the employees of henry pratt victims of yesterday's shooting. clayton parks of elgin, illinois. mr. parks was the human resource manager at henry plat. trevor wayner of dekalb, illinois. mr. wayner was a human resource intern at henry pratt and a student at northern illinois university. russell buyer of yorkville, illinois. was he a mold operator at henry pratt. vin sen taye juarez. he was a stock room attendant and forklift operator at henry pratt. josh pinkard of oswego, illinois. he was the plant manager for henry pratt. another shooting victim, male employee of henry pratt was treated at an area hospital for nonlife-threatening gunshot wounds sustained in the incident. preliminary investigation indicates the deceased victims were located in the same general area of the henry pratt facility. while this investigation is on-going, we believe there was only one assailant. here's what we know so far about the shooter. 45 years of age. he lived in the 1900 block of sell martin road in aurora. six prior arrests by the aurora police department, including arrests for traffic and domestic battery related issues. last arrest in aurora was in 2008 for violating an order of protection. his last arrest in 2017 by oswego, illinois police department for criminal damage to property. regarding the weapon used in the shooting incident. in january of 2014 the shooter was issued a firearms applied to purchase a hand gun from a local gun deemer in aurora. on march 11 shooter took possession of a smith and wesson 40 caliber handgun from that same gun dealer. the shooter applied for a conceal carry at an unknown location. during the process, it was discovered he had a felony conviction for agravateded assault. the date of that conviction was august 3, 1995. this conviction would not necessarily show up on a criminal background check for a card. once this was discoverleed, his card was revoked. step at special agent in charge brendan iver is here and able to describe how a firearm is traced. >> thank you, chief. good morning. we start with the manufacturer of that firearm. from the manufacture, we follow that firearm down to the distributer. from the distributer down to the local federal licensee. ultimately to the first initial purchaser. of the firearm. if we need to, we will follow that firearm from the first initial purchaser. once we get this information, we actively and proactively share it with our state and local counterparts who have a vestled interest in the investigation. >> chief. >> first, i'd leike to give youa rundown of similar resources used yesterday. we used approximately eight s.w.a.t. teams from federal to local level. approximately 35 agencies responded consisting of approximately 200 to 300 officers. there will be a reference made to contact teams and rescue task force teams. we used eight contact teams. those were made up of approximately six to eight officer. we also formed approximately 13 rescue task force teams which c con sisisted of eight officers three medics. or personnel from the fire department. to start with the time line. the original call came in. officers were dispatched to archer avenue active shooter in the plant. second call, 13:24 hours. >> the update in aurora illinois and the resources used during the workplace shooting and an update on this sixth officer who is hospitalized with nonlife threatening injuries. their ages and their years of experience are notable. from age 23 to 54, spanning experience from 2 years to 30 year. cnn law enforcement analyst james is here with me now. also a synopsis of the suspect who was killed in this con from tat confrontation with police, gary martin, and how he was able to maintain this handgun really not long prior to shooting that did took place. we still don't know the sequence of events, but we do know the consequence it being very grave, five employees, co-workers, killed and six off thor e er o. >> police have not gotten intoi line. two were hr employees. human resources. that's where the gunman had gone to basically air grievances. in the second -- >> all happening in the same general facility. the area, you know, contained of people who were killed, injured, also in the same location. >> shop workers, shop foreman and two hr workers. it's 2019. in the last month and a half, of this year, 16 police officers killed in the line of duty. in this instance, thank god, none of them killed but five officers wounded. three of them my age in their early 50s. two, younger folks. >> what do you still want to hear to help kind of connect the dot als of what happened, what interactions there may have been with the suspect and, you know, the consequence? >> kuld kudos to the police department in aurora. they did the right thing yield yesterday. and then we'll get you further details. now the further details. a couple of things in regard to the gun laws. we know states have varying gun laws dependent upon if you are a convicted felon. if this individual hadn't gotten that conviction exexpunged. in some cases, especially illinois, they've got strvery strict gun laws. how was he able to get a concealled permit? we know that was revoked. but that obviously didn't cause him to turn the weapon in. >> how do you suppose this incident might precipitate any changings, on how workplaces can protect themselves? >> we know from the homeland security perspective. manufacturing is one of those. how do we keep those safe? we talk about soft targetings, rig targets, right, that means something we would not presume to put up tsa there to screen people. i think most businesses are making a determination whether or not you have to do what we're doing in the school systems. single point entry. is this going to mean in the future we're going to have armed guard also at places of business? in an instance leak thiike this please violence, fred, that can happen anywhere. >> james galanio, thank you. all right, much more straight head. a lot will happen in your life. wrinkles just won't. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair's derm-proven retinol works so fast, it takes only one week to reveal younger looking skin. neutrogena® prestige creams not living up to the hype? one jar shatters the competition. olay regenerist hydrates skin better than creams costing over $100, $200, and even $400. fact check this ad in good housekeeping. olay. you'll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day.ou? complicated relationship with milk? pour on the lactaid, 100% real milk, just without that annoying lactose. mmm, that's good. has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. ♪ ♪ she's doing it again. no cover up spray here... cheaper aerosols can cover up odors, burying them in a flowery fog. switch to febreze air effects! febreze eliminates even the toughest odors from the air. freshen up, don't cover up. febreze hello, everyone. i'm fredricka whitfield. we again wibegin with new detai shooting rampage in illinois. it happened inside the henry pratt manufacturing company in a suburb of chicago. police say the gunman was gary martin, a 15-year veteran employee would was being fired that day. he shot and killed five of his co-workers and injured five police officers before dieing in an exchange of gun fire with police. police say he went to the local convenience store yesterday morning. clerks there said he seemed fine. th
i'd rather do it faster. >> shepard: that statement could be part of the legal challenges that the president knows are coming. the aclu just announced they plan to file a suit. >> we will have a national emergency and we will then be sued and they will sue us in the ninth circuit, even though it shouldn't be there. we will possibly get a bad ruling and then we'll get another bad ruling and then we'll end up in the supreme court and hopefully we'll get a fair shake and we'll win in the supreme court. >> shepard: that's the legal system. show downs are also expected in congress. some lawmakers are already promising to introduce bills to end the president's national emergency. that could force president trump to override congress with a veto. if so, it would be the first veto of his presidency. the house speaker, nancy pelosi, and the senate minority leader chuck schumer say the president is not above the law and congress cannot let the president shred the constitution. speaker pelosi tweeting, this is plainly a power grab by a disappointed president what has gone outside the bounds of the law to try to get what he failed to achieve in the constitutional legislative process. there are also questions and concerns for that matter about exactly where the white house will get the money for the border wall and fox news asked the president how this may affect our military. we have team fox coverage. mike emanuel reporting live from capitol hill. first john roberts reporting live from the white house. what are you hearing about where the president will get money for the wall? >> good afternoon, shep. it's going to come from a combination of places. he's going to get some money from congress, some money from bad guys, the bulk of it will come from the pentagon. let's put it on the screen. he will get 1.375 billion from the dhs appropriation bill that he just signed in the last hour. he will get $601 million from the treasury department's forfeiture fund. this is money that is seized from bad guys that do business in this country. 2.5 billion will be allocated through the department of defense's drug interdiction program. 2.2 billion of that money will come from reprogrammed areas elsewhere in the dod budget. that could be a point of contention. $3.5 billion will come from the military construction budget. the white house considers the treasury money and money already in the dod's drug interdiction money that they can get easily. the reprogrammed money gets more dicey. the money from the military construction budget will no doubt invite a challenge from congress and most likely in the courts. you mentioned the aclu. that's why the president is making this emergency declaration all about national security and fighting crime. listen here. >> what we really want to do is simple. it's not like it's complicated. it's very simple. we want to stop drugs from coming into our country. we want to stop criminals and gangs from counting into our country. nobody has done the job that we've ever done. nobody has done the job that we've done on the border. we have removed thousands of m.s. 13 gang monsters. thousands. they're out of this country. >> so the president making what he believes is a compelling argument on national security and crime prevention front. seeming to almost do a 180 by saying i didn't need to do this. he told us he needed to do this. so that will no doubt be part of the court challenges that we see. the white house does not expect to get its hands on all eight billion. they be happy if they get $4.5 to 4.6. >> shepard: the critics says he's taking taxpayer money without approval. >> look at the military forfeiture fund. that can be used for anything. you saw chuck schumer and nancy pelosi so critical of that. alexandria ocasio-cortez and julian castro says they will introduce legislation in congress to block the president from doing that. i asked the president in his press conference in the rose garden earlier today about that issue. listen here. >> how can you guarantee to military families and our men and women of the military that none of the money would be programmed to a wall will take away from other technology, other renovations, construction that is desperately needed in our military? >> we have certain funds that are being used at the discretion of generals, at the discretion of the military. some of them haven't been allocated yesterday. some of the generals think this is more important. i've gotten $700 billion for the military in year one. when you have that kind of money going into the military, this is a very small amount that we're asking for. >> white house officials telling me earlier today the 3.5 billion from the military construction budget would be for projects that they believe are far lower priority than building a border wall. you can bet, shep, they're going to be challenged on every move that they make. this is really going to be under a microscope by the oversight folks in congress. >> shepard: and north korea came up as well today. >> it did. president trump looking ahead to the summit with kim jong-un, which is going to occur the week after next. the president when it comes to north korean denuclearization said he's in no rush for speed. the president said right now what he's focusing on is no missile tests, no nuclear tests and, you know, there can be other moves down the road in terms of dismantling the north korean nuclear program. again, no rush to get that done. the president also today saying that the united states is in a much different position with north korea now than it was during the obama administration. listen here. >> when i came into office, i met right there, in the oval office, with president obama. i sat in those beautiful chairs. i said what is the biggest problem. he said by far, north korea. i believe he would have gone to war with north korea. i think he was ready to go to war. he told me he was so close to starting a big war with north korea. >> no response from president obama today. his former cia director, john brennan weighing in on this telling nbc, president obama was never on the verge of starting any war with north korea, large or small. it's true there have been no missile tests, no nuclear testing since the president began his dialogue with kim jong-un. but we should also point out north korea has taken no steps toward denuclearization, nor do white house and other administration officials expect it will at any time in the near or maybe even distant future. so this could start to be a point of contention, shep, if there's no progress made. >> shepard: john roberts live. good weekend. a fox urgent. it's official. official word from the white house, the president has signed the bill that will continue to fund the federal government. this has happened in the last few minutes. something we were expecting would happen after congress passed the bill last night. the house in the afternoon. the senate in the evening. just now the president has signed it. now with a threat of another shut down out of the way, lawmakers are focusing on the president's decision to declare a national emergency. what are they saying? let's go to mike emanuel reporting live on the hill. what about it? >> the top democrats in congress, speaker nancy pelosi and chuck schumer saying the president's actions clearly violate congress's power of the purse. the congress will defend our constitutional authorities in the congress, in the courts and in the public using every remedy available. delaware democrat senator chris coons issued this concern. >> i think all of us come to regret this. it's not the right way for the president to try and end run congress when he's unsatisfied with a broad bipartisan compromise that is delivering billions of dollars more in investment for border security. the majority leader who himself is an appropriator would embrace this outcome surprises me. >> kentucky republican senator rand paul critical on twitter saying i want stronger security including a wall in some areas but how we do things matters. ever 1,000 pages dropped in the middle of the night and extra constitutional executive actions are wrong no matter which party does them. tennessee republican senator lamar alexander said the president made a strong case for border security but declaring a national emergency is unwise and inconsistent with the u.s. constitution. some of the president's closest allies are saying go for it. >> i certainly support the president. i wish congress could have done more to help him. i mean, you know, when you look at the president having to take these kinds of measures, it's because congress has failed this president and the american people. for nancy pelosi to suggest that this is setting a precedent, no, we've had national emergencies declared prior to this president. if she wants to do away with it, i'll be glad to work in a bipartisan way. >> congress is out next week. expect plenty of talk and action when lawmakers return. >> shepard: mike emanuel on the hill. to chris wallace now. i think what the congressman was referring to is not the declaration of a national emergency but circumventing congress regarding funding matters. i have heard some republicans express that could be a precedent. >> exactly. there's 30 or 31 emergencies that are currently -- they have been enacted by earlier presidents that are still active. but they are on very different matters. they're on real national emergencies, things like freezing the funding, the assets in this country of terrorists. it's a very different thing when you've had a debate for years as we have over funding a wall and congress has decided not to give that funding to the president for him then to say i'm going to declare a national emergency and take that funding anyway. i don't think there's been a emergency like that. where congress refused to give the president money and the president took money on his own. that will cause two avenues here. first of all, the political avenue. the house will undoubtedly pass a resolution of termination basically overturning the president's declaration and then it goes to the senate. it's a simple majority, no a super majority of 60. it looks between the democrats and a half dozen or so republicans that they will approve that resolution of determination. but then the president can veto that. there's not the kind of veto proof majority to overturn the president. then you can go to the courts and as you can hear congress and individuals and various groups like the aclu, property owners along the border, are all going to challenge this in court. >> the reporting, chris, is that some of his closest aides were saying to him, in essence, there's some money out there that you can get to without declaring a national emergency. our understanding of it is from reporting is that they had advised him not to declare a national emergency. yet he decided to do so. do we know what made that change in the last minute there's or is there no reporting on that yet? >> well, there's been reporting. the reporting was that he was taking -- first of all, he wasn't happy with it, when he saw all the handcuffs in the bill that congress did pass. there's 300 times in the bill because they were concerned the president would take money for project a and then apply it to the wall, that it said no funds here can be used for the border wall. so he was upset about that. he was upset about the constraints on it. i think he also felt some political heat. look, i'm going to get a lot of heat for signing this congressional bill. if i declare a national emergency, it's a bold statement that i one, believe in this issue and a statement, i promised this in the campaign and i'm keeping faith with you on it. you could say as a cynic, even if the does get delayed by the courts, if they get an injunction out west, i can go to my base and say i did everything i could. i got that money, repurposed money and declared a national emergency. all i can do is fight as best i can congress and the courts. >> shepard: which was predicted by some six weeks ago. >> that's right. and then there's the question of why we have the 35 day shut down. >> a good one. what new this weekend on the "fox news sunday" there, chris? >> well, we think we're going to have a tough white house official to answer these very good questions that you just posed for me. he will give better answers than i did. we'll also have an exclusive interviewer. our annual visit from rush limbaugh, the king of talk radio. >> shepard: he got a talk from el potus today. he got -- >> he did. >> shepard: three hours without a caller. >> the only person that could do that other than him is you. seriously. i think the only person i know that is a better broadcaster than you is rush limbaugh. he's the king. we'll talk to him on sunday. we'll ask him -- he denies that he changed the president's mind in december. we'll talk about it. >> shepard: we'll be right back. oh no. your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. not quite ready to face the day? that's why we're here with free hot breakfast. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance book at hampton.com for our pso you only payantee. for what you need. great news for anyone wh- uh uh - i'm the one who delivers the news around here. ♪ liberty mutual has just announced that they can customize your car insurance so that you only pay for what you need. this is phoebe buckley, on location. uh... thanks, phoebe. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you turned a family recipeher, into a brewing empire before prohibition took it all away. i promised our family i'd find your lost recipe. by tracing our history on ancestry, i found the one person who still had it. now, i'm brewing our legacy back to life. i'm david thieme, and this is my ancestry story. now with 100 million family trees, find your story. get started for free at ancestry.com. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you. >> shepard: the president mentioned he talked with leaders in beijing and the united states wrapped up two days of talks there's today, weeks before a deadline to reach a trade deal with the chinese. the president talked about that. the u.s. set to hit china with more tariffs which the president says he likes unless the two countries can come to an agreement. president trump said he's open to extending the deadline if in fact things are moving in what he calls the right direction. blake burman asked a few questions today. he's with us from the white house. hi, blake. >> the top trade negotiators, robert lighthizer and steve mnuchin are on their way back to the u.s. after a couple of days of discussions in beijing with their chinese counter parts. the two met with the chinese president xi earlier today. president trump described the talks as going "extremely well" but also added who knows what that means because it only matters if we get it done. negotiators will return next week. time is ticking. there's a march 1 deadline to get a deal done or the u.s. will increase tariffs. when i asked the president earlier today if the deadline is firm, he suggested it could slide. >> there's a possibility that i will extend the date. if i do that, if i see we're close to a deal or the deal is going in the right direction, i would do that at the same tariffs that we're charging now. i wouldn't increase them. >> as of now, president trump and president xi are not expected to meet face to face before the march 1 deadline, two weeks from now. you have to whether or not whether the deal can be completed before the deadline. administration officials say it's possible that president trump and president xi speaks on the phone before that. >> shepard: i heard the president would be interested in bricking in the democratic leaders to the discussions. >> he said if there's a deal struck with china, then no matter what happens, there would be criticism from the democrats. so he revealed that he's thinking about bringing the top democratic leader in the room in the late stages of the discussions. don't have that sound bite there. the president, shepard, saying that chuck schumer and nancy pelosi, to bring them in the room to hear face-to-face what they're proposing so it's a real offer. >> shepard: thanks, blake. breaking news on fox news channel. it has to do with roger stone. the president's former adviser. have you noticed how he's been out making speeches on alternative radio programs, trying to raise money, selling a book? lots of chatter, that ladies and gentlemen, is about to come to an end. the breaking news is next on fox news. police say they have now made arrests in the alleged hate crime against actor jussie smollett of the fox television show "empire." details coming. the fbi is taking out a fugitive on the most wanted list. lots of news ahead. stay with us. ms ♪ ♪ here i go again on my--- you realize your vows are a whitesnake song? i do. if you ride, you get it. geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more. i'm a fighter. always have been. when i found out i had age-related macular degeneration, amd, i wanted to fight back. my doctor and i came up with a plan. it includes preservision. only preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd. that's why i fight. because it's my vision. preservision. also, in a great-tasting chewable. you hardly ever play catch with the grandkidsalk? 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in fox news chicago with the latest as its breaking. this is live. >> we're hearing reports of several injuries as well. we have a person from across the street that claims to be an eye witness saying he's hearing it's a disgruntled employee at this company, the henry pratt company, which is again just right next to the campus of aurora university in aurora. as i said, we have a reporter on the way. this is our chopper over the scene. you can see a little movement there. some folks moving between the first responders. not seeing a lot of activity from the various vehicles. >> yeah. not a lot of people moving there. some in the upper portion of your screen. we mentioned, this is affecting schools in the air. holy angels the catholic school is on lock down and district 29 holding their students right now. this is affecting a lot of places. a lot of parents a lot of people worried any time we talk an active shooter in this country. a lot of people are wondering what will happen there. we're hearing the reports of people injuries. we're going continue to stay on this breaking news on fox 32. keeping you in a loop. i'm going to mention, a lot of these are unconfirmed reports. we're waiting to get the information. crews going to the scene and air fox over the scene where you see this is a major event happening. >> this just coming in from the daily herald saying that "multiple civilians and one aurora police officer have been wounded." the suspected shooter is still at large. that is key. the suspected shooter is still at large in an industrial area near archer and highland. that according to preliminary reports from the scene and the daily herald. multiple ambulances are there. we can confirm that. they're being staged at a pizza restaurant near the scene. some businesses on lockdown. the fact that the shooter is expected to be at large, sally said, this is near several schools. it's near a university. tensions are extremely high at this location right now. >> that's why the schools are holding students at this point. this started around 2:00. almost a half hour ago this all started. again, holy angel's school on lock down. here holding the schools in the district, telling parents, they put out the words to parents, yes, reports of an active shooter at the henry pratt building. again, this is by luigi's pizza. that shooter -- >> shepard: we're listening to local coverage on fox news channel across the nation and around the world from fox news chicago. our local own and operated station there, fox 32. i want to show you a map. chicago is on the lake. as you can see, aurora is to the west and southwest of it, inside the chicago television market. the active shooter situation reported a little less than a half hour ago at the henry pratt company. it's an industrial area there. there's a campus across the street for a local college. the details from police, not a whole lot except aurora police are responding. police say command staff are at the site. there was a large presence. the records from fox news chicago that multiple people are injured in this. we don't know how they were injured. no one has said they're shooting victims. only people were injured. you know there's lots of different ways people can get injured in a scary and chaotic situation. we know from fox news chicago that a number of people are injuries. from the school system per directions from the county sheriff, the district has been advised to go in soft lock down situations across the school district there. teaching to continue. nobody allowed to leave or enter the buildings until the lock down is lifted. the reason for that is, the shooter in this -- the reported shooter is said to still be at large. again, reports of an active shooter happening now with reports that the shooter is still at large or at least not contained in any way and listening to local reporting now, fox news chicago breaking into 2:30 in the afternoon programming with this breaking news. listen. >> we're hearing sheriff is on the scene, illinois state police, another police officer coming in. i'm seeing another report coming in that it was in fact an active shooter. the active shooters was a disgruntled warehouse employee. we have not confirmed that. that is still coming in our newsroom secondhand. it's going to be very difficult to get information first hand as this is a very closed understandably so scene. it's a crime scene. an active shooter on the loose right now. so everything we're getting in, we're getting in piecemeal, r y relying on the pictures -- >> the local fire department has sent out a request for as many ambulances as possible for this active shooter situation. you can see, if we go back to wfld, you can see a number of emergency vehicles are staged right around the location of the active shooter situation and others in the background. you can see fire department officials there in the lower level of the screen, half jogging up the street there. so chaos might be overstating it. certainly a serious situation as authorities are looking for an active shooter while trying to treat those injured. we have multiple choppers over the scene now and multiple reporters on the way. continuing coverage now from fox news chicago. >> the active shooter is still out there at this point is what we're hearing. people were reporting that they saw fire trucks speeding by, heading to this area. so you know at this time in aurora is a very tense situation. a lot of people on edge right now waiting to hear more. we are waiting to hear more. there's the pictures, telling you what a large response this is. all the ambulances that we've been talking about, people have been seeing the fire trucks speeding by. there they are right there, next to the large white building. not seeing many police cars. >> as we pull out wide, you can see appears there's a command center there. back against that wall. this is a lockdown situation for schools. so you're going to see police try to essentially lock down this area, keep people from going both in and out of the area as the reports come in that the active shooter. my apologies that's not a command center there. as the active shooter that water hearing is still on the loose. looks like you can see, it's possible, hard to tell, swat teams possibly walking in to the area for a situation like this. you know, that would be protocol. bring in swat teams to try to lock the place down. they haven't been able to locate him according to reports. we don't know if he's in the warehouse or fled the area. >> we do have reports that the swat team is there. the people that we saw walking across the parking lot. obviously not running at this point. i want to give you a better idea where we're talking about. again, this is 401 south highland here. i look at the map, it's not far from the fox river. there's an electrical supply -- >> shepard: switching over to live pictures from our network news service station, this is wlf now. another of our stations there on scene. as they push in here, you can see the line of emergency vehicles all around this area. the latest is there's a great deal of uncertainty, it would appear, about where the shooter may be. the latest we've gotten, we have no additional reports of shooting since all of this began. we have no confirmation that anyone has been shot, though we do have from fox news chicago that a number of people have been injured. abc 7 in chicago is reporting that their people reached a woman inside the warehouse that was shaken up but said she was okay. she believes some of her co-workers were hurt, but then she told abc to call corporate. that's from our affiliate abc 7 in chicago. so we don't have any direct reports of anyone being shot. we do have reports of an active shooter, a number of people injured and a lack of certainty about where the shooter himself, if there was one, is at this point. they're treating this as a serious situation. schools are on what they're calling a soft lockdown. nobody in or out. they have set up cordons around parts of the area. this is aurora, illinois for those of you that just may be joining us, which is west of chicago. northern part of the state. west southwest of chicago itself. we've been listening to local coverage from our station there. let's listen in again. >> with the people at the plant. the biggest challenge right now is to safely evacuate the people from the ground while also identify the active shooter. so that's a very complex and detailed challenge for the first responders. >> so kind of walk us through what some of their first goals could be at this point. what is their main focus? finding that shooter i'm thinking? >> their main focus is command and control. they have to work together. they have to be able to identify that threat are. they're going into an environment. there's employees there, could be visitors there. there's a criminal element there. its trying to -- it's a crime scene also. so human capital is paramount here but they have to control this scene and at some point neutralize the threat. >> we can see, we showing viewers, there's the heavy police presence. we showed you the first responders, the ambulance. there's the police presence that we've been talking about. so this -- so the swat team will be on the scene. will swat be heading inside to try to lock down? >> michael, before you answer that, i want a quick update. the daily herald is reporting that four aurora police officers are wounded as well as multiple civilians. again, four aurora police officers wounded. multiple civilians. that's the word from the daily herald. michael, when you hear those numbers that we know we have that going on, is your thought proce process? >> as far as the entry into the building, yes, it would be a tactical unit. specially trained, highly adept at these types of situations. there's also the emergency medical need. talk about four wounded that we know about. could be other casualties, too. so you're trying to balance the fact that you have emergency medical and emergency management response. the professionals in that building, like i said, are highly trained. their training will come into play here. it's not going to be usually like a police officer assigned to a beat, for example. it's a police that they call turtle gear. wearing kevlar, protective helmets -- >> shepard: shepard smith in new york. new information coming in from the atf. we're notified that atf chicago is responding to this active shooter situation. the locals are now reporting that as well. i want to give you more. you heard the local anchor mention suburban newspaper is the daily herald. it is the world that is on scene and reporting that four aurora police officers and multiple civilians have been shot. we've been saying injured because that was all the information we had. now this is the first hard report from the locals that people have actually been shot. among those four aurora police officers and multiple civilians shot with the suspect at large. again, that's from "the daily herald" which bills itself suburban chicago's information source. four illinois police officers, multiple civilians have been wounded and the suspect is still at large in this industrial area near prairie and highland avenue. there were unconfirmed reports earlier, which i wouldn't get into. they're unconfirmed. but i can tell you multiple victims are now being airlifted to the hospital in downard's grove. swat teams are being called. police are urging anyone in this area to shelter in place in nearby holy angels school and some businesses are a soft lockdown. so what was a serious situation is much more dire now with the reporting from the suburban newspaper that four aurora police officers and multiple civilians have been shot and the suspect at large. jonathan hunt, our chief correspondent, is working sources in the background here for updates. jonathan, what are you learn something. >> this is clearly a very active scene still. obviously the school district is a major concern here. the west aurora school district, 129, has already posted a message to all parents saying every single district student is being held in place now, a lockdown at all schools. the major concern, of course, is that there is no indication whatsoever at this point that the police know exactly where this shooter is. we certainly have no reports of anybody taken into custody at this point. i think as you look at these aerial pictures, shep, around the henry pratt building in aurora, it's interesting to note and i have not seen, i'm not sure if you have, but i have not seen many officers moving with guns drawn. >> shepard: jonathan, i haven't either. i have to interrupt, a spokesperson for the city of aurora on the line with fox news chicago. >> confirm it was there in the henry pratt building. the active shooter was inside? >> it's in the henry pratt building. >> we have atf on scene. can you give us a list -- >> a number of other first responders from the suburban area. we'll publish that list shortly. >> clayton, as we're watching air fox over the scene. you have to know the people in your city right now are nervous and worried what do you say to the people watching right now? >> they understand the seriousness of this matter. they know we're in the best of hands with pour police department and we're doing everything we can to get the situation under control. >> is this something your city, as far as i can tell, never had to do with anything like this, a tragic and sad situation. >> most definitely. >> this has to be taking an emotional toll on you and other city officials as well. >> we're here for the benefit and the safety of our entire community. thank you. if you can please continue to monitor our social media. thank you so much. >> thank you for the time with that. came in about 2:00, the report of an active shooter at the henry pratt building on highland. that whole area is shut down. that's where we see the huge response growing by the minute. the bottom line that active shooter seems to still be on the loose right now. >> we're getting unconfirmed reports, the daily herald, mr. clayton mohammed wouldn't confirm it, four aurora police officers have been shot, several civilians have been shot. we have another law enforcement expert on the phone. eugene roy, former chief of detectives for chicago p.d. >> shepard: the latest we're getting in new york, much of it is coming from the atf that just arrived on scene and live pictures coming in from the local station. the shooting that has been reported was just about 45 minutes ago now. our understanding is the shooting happened and stopped. authorities came. they airlifted a number of victims to a nearby trauma center. from the wfld feed, you can see a line of emergency workers headed with what appears to be officials behind them up the street and toward this scene. we're expecting may get something official from authorities here in just the next few minutes. the reporting that we've been citing is from the daily herald newspaper in chicago which is alone in its reporting. the daily herald is reporting four aurora police officers have been shot and multiple civilians shot. the details, we don't have yet. for instance, was there a shooting underway to which authorities responded and then the shooter himself, whether one or more, we don't flow, got involved in a shootout with police? details have not yet come. what we are reporting through the daily herald is that four officers are shot, multiple victims. and they're transporting a number of them by life flight helicopte helicopters. we expect to have reporters on scene shortly. you can imagine in the afternoon, 2:45 in the afternoon on a 17 degree day and traffic is bisque with the soft lockdown underway. you can see the officials headed up to the warehouse area from the wfld picture out of aurora. a huge crowd has gathered outside the building there. let's listen in to fox news chicago again. >> this a very tense situation. this is a highly -- this is a dangerous situation. we're witnessing first responders, officers walking around the perimeter. is that because what we're seeing on the outside is starkly different from what's going on inside? to the naked eye and the laymen looking at some of the pictures that we're showing, it doesn't appear there's a sense of emergency on the outside. can you talk a little bit about that? >> i can assure you, there's a sense of urgency, a sense of emergency. we may not see it because it's going on behind the walls of the building. trust me, these people are professionals. they're out there. they're very much on point and do whatever needs to be done to mitigation the situation. >> taking a look at live video. it's hard to tell but looks like a lot of officers are outside the plant. i'm thinking some of those might be in swat teams vehicles. what is -- do they want to get in -- how do you get in there to stop this active shooter but also maintain the safety of these officers there on the scene? >> i mentioned earlier having conducted an intelligence assessment. you need to know as much as you can, the perpetrator perpetrating this. you need to know where the exits are -- >> shepard: shepard smith in new york. we have a witness on the phone. tonya urban is with us. she works nearby and said she heard the shots fired. are you okay? >> we're okay. >> shepard: how far are you from the scene and what did you hear? >> we're not even a mile away. we heard three or four shots. >> shepard: you heard three or four shots from a mile away? >> yeah. really loud. >> shepard: when was that? >> around an hour ago. 2:00? >> yeah. give or take time. we had the kitchen open, the door. we could hear it. it was on prairie and highland. we're on prairie and lake street. >> shepard: do you have an idea about how many shots you heard? >> we heard three. >> shepard: what is the situation now? we know the school district is on what they're calling a soft lockdown. where do you want and what is the situation there? >> i work for a day care center. one of my parents mom works there, where this is happening. i guess an employee got fired and started doing that stuff. >> shepard: we've heard -- we got this same reporting from wfld in chicago. fox news cannot confirm exactly how this began. before we confirm it, we's. we have a map put together. stay with me now, if you can we have a map put together of this henry pl henry pratt company. a lot of folks work there, huh, tonya? >> right. >> shepard: what does the henry pratt company do? do you know? >> no, i don't know. >> shepard: you said a mother of the children at your day works there. >> right. she called and said everything was okay. she was trying -- i lost the phone call. my phone has been ringing the last hour. >> shepard: i'm sure it has. are you guys keeping the kids there and not letting people in or out? what situation are you under? >> we have all the doors locked. we're out in allowed to go outside. we have an open window. the blinds are open to make sure everything is safe and everything. >> shepard: tonya, thanks. stay safe. we're waiting for authorities to let us know if they've been able to get a suspect in custody. so far our understanding is that that hasn't happened. henry pratt company is a leading manufacturer of valves and accessories with more than 60 years experience in servicing the power industry. introduced repair work in com edison and the city of large employer there in aurora outside of chicago. the police presence continues to grow around there. i mentioned the local fire department had asked for all available ambulances to come to the scene, which isn't that unusual when you don't know how many victims there are. the local suburban newspaper, the daily herald updating its coverage and the latest with reporters on scene is four aurora cops and multiple civilians shot. we know a number of people have been taken to trauma centers. fox news chicago still live and local with this with air fox, their chopper above. let's listen in. >> where are the folks injured, how do we get to them at the same time we're looking for the shooter. >> this is a very, very large area. so there's officers on the inside, officers staged at every one of the exits as you -- has to be a very coordinated event nor these officers working together. >> oh, it definitely is. that's why you have the police out there, the sheriff's office, the police in aurora. they practice for events like this numerous times. they've got a game plan in place. >> thanks, eugene. just want to give the it laest to reset. reports of an active shooter at 401 south highland in aurora. there you can see the map. it's the henry pratt company. a manufacturing plant. what i'm learning about henry pratt, this is a company that's been around a long time in chicago. back in the 1800s. started in 1888. so it is a manufacturing plant. they basically made a lot of values for used in the water industry, waste water, industrial markets, that kind of thing, this is happening there at the plant. the active shooter, the report came from inside. the active shooter was there. we've been hearing reports up to four police officers have been injured along with multiple civilians. we're working to confirm those reports. when we had someone from the city of aurora, they couldn't confirm that. >> local media is reporting that chicago fbi agents, which is no surprise. has been confirmed they're responding to help with local law enforcement. the scene described by former chief detectives, eugene roy, you have an active shooter inside a warehouse, you have officers hiding behind desks, moving in and out. hallways and doorways. the shooter is still at large. >> shepard: the chicago tributing reporting that dozens of area police officers responded and many injuries according to kendall county dispatch. they've been monitoring the police dispatch from the county there, kendall county is where aurora is. chicago tribune is reporting multiple injuries as we've been reporting. the trib says roads are blocked off and vehicles belonging to police and ambulances and fire trucks were speeding down lake street to respond. state police and county officials also responding. west aurora school district is holding all students in place for safety due to the incident in the area as we're approaching a school let-out time at five minutes till 3:00 in aurora. all of that from the chicago tribune. a lot of local reportings. that's where we getting the numbers from police that were hurt and civilians that were hurt. reporting from local there's that have been around. nancy cal an employee at a truck replace place down the street. they said weave not heard from the police but we can hear the sirens. i shut the front gate and locked the doors. went on to say, i have three people here with me and there's four people in the building behind me. they prefer to be all the way inside the building and not near the windows, this particular worker saying their remaining calm. i'm watching the wls feed. wls is one of our network news service affiliates. a lot of actions with officials. see where the street turns left. a lot of officials moving in that direction at a fairly high rate of speed. some appear to be in ready position. reports of an active shooter. what we don't know is if the shooter is contained. you can see more of people on the move. that i can the wls feed full. officials on the move on the left-hand side of the screen, above the spot where it says "fox news channel" in red and blue a number of officials on the move there. at the top of the screen as well moving up toward the building from the wls feet is the one we want to see and take it full. that's passed us now. a lot of activity on the outside. the kind of activity, jonathan hunt, you noted with interest earlier, there wasn't a lot of armed police activity on the outside. that's changed now. some indications that maybe hopefully the suspect is contained to that building. we have no way to know. >> yeah, it's definitely a change in the scene that we noticed the last couple minutes. more activity, more urgency among those responding. there seems to be some question as the preside location of this. we were talking about the henry pratt company, which is right there. next door there's an address 641 arch avenue. aurora police have said that is where they pinpointed the shooting, too. we've also heard from an employee of a steel company that is head quartered at that address. they've been told to shelter in place because there was a shooting at henry pratt. so many confusion. obviously that is not untypical. >> shepard: jonathan, this just in. this is from abc 7, which is our network news service affiliate there. just interviewed a man who said he's a worker. i'm quoting now. "i saw a gun running down the aisle with a pistol. i recognized him as a co-worker and he was shooting everybody." that's an eye witness on the phone with abc 7 in chicago. further reporting from cbs 2, also our network news service affiliate, reporter says from a high ranking law enforcement officer on scene, they believe multiple officers have been wounded as we've been reporting, gunshot wounds, multiple civilians, also suffering gunshot wounds and importantly this is still being treated as an active shooter situation. as of two minutes ago, actually three minutes ago, cbs 2 was reporting they have not located the shooter. the reporter talked with a new sheriff, ron haynes. the sheriff said, still an active shooter, we're deploying all available personnel alongside apd, which is aurora police department. so they called in for extra help from neighboring police agencies. they have the swat team in there. they have the atf in there. reporting from all over the police of multiple people having been shot and taken to nearby hospitals. the latest from the sheriff, no word on where this shooter is or at least the shooter has not yet been taken into custody. we're fast approaching the 3:00 area in chicagoland and certainly for aurora, which means a top of the hour update. this is fox news channel. its 3:00 in aurora, colorado. i'm shepard smith in new york. this is breaking news now on fox news channel. an active shooter situation underway in the chicago suburb of aurora, illinois. to the west southwest of the city of chicago where right now at the henry pratt company there is said to be an active shooter situation. the best reporting we have at this moment comes to us from the sheriff there that tells cbs 2 in chicago that multiple people have been wounded, including police officers, and additionally from the daily herald number, suburban chicago's information source. the daily herald reporting four
are trying to figure out if martin planned the shooting. we're learning more about the victims. >> provide limited information on the employees who were victims. clal calculate e clayton parks. trevor wayner of dekalb illinois. a human resource intern and a student at northern illinois university. russell byer of yorkville, illinois, a mold operator. vicente juarez of oswego, illinois, a stockroom attendant and forklift operator at henry pratt. josh pginkard, the plant manage. another shooting victim, a male employee of henry pratt, was treated for nonlife threatening wound. preliminary investigation indicates the deceased victim also were the in same general ye area. we'll this investigation is ongoing, we believe there's only one assailant. >> a strong reaction from the democrats on the campiaign trai. some calling for the gun debate to be front and center. >> we know america has been offered a false choice open on gun safety laws. either you're in favor of the 2nd amendment or you want to take everybody's guns away. >> the reason this country is talking about gun violence and stands a chance to do something about it is not because of people look me already in position, of power. not the president. it's the young people who have forced the conversation and marching for all of our lives. for holding people like me accou accountable. >> others reacting on twert. senator booker tweet mile heart is with the loved ones of the victims of the horrific shooting in aurora, illinois that has left five people dead and more injured. congress must take action to prevent gun violence. warren also sending this tweet. highlighting commonsense gun reforms. criticizing congress for, quote, not lifting a finger to change the gun laws in the year seninc the parkland shooting. as the race for the nomination heats up, so does our coverage. we have a team covering the candidates. with early primaries and caucuses. not yet announced if he will run for the white house. cnn's is covering beto o'rourke. >> reporter: he wallas asked. he's theminking about it. we expect an answer by the end of the month. where he is today, at the u.s. hiss sppanic leadership congres chicago. an hour away from aurora. that deadly shooting. while this is a conference for lal lat tino leaders where he will talk about health care, immigration, there's a chance he could also talk gun control. he has said in the past, look, i'm not here to take away anyone's guns. but he also brags about his "f" rating with the nra. where he's been recently has been in places of people he says are foregotten. in the last month, he's been to universities and community colleges in new mexico, texas, new york, last night, wisconsin. if you're someone who is seriously thinking about somehow tapping into that obama coalition of a young voter that may feel forgotten, wisconsin may be a good please to start. we'll he tcontinues to say i haven't made a decision, we know actions speak louder than words and he's acting look he's reaching outhd reach ing out to a lot of voters. >> we'll see. laila, thank you so much. in chicago. now to cnn's kyung lah in columbia, south carolina, where senator harris is hosting a town hall. what does harris have planned today? at least, this is at least her second visit in a short amount of time to south carolina. >> reporter: she's trying to maximize opn any sort of good will. she is walking through columbia, south carolina, where she is meeting various owners, small business owners, who are black women. black women in this state absolutely criminal call. she considers them her base, her path. she is walking and chewing gu i at the same time. she tweeted about un vefrsal universal background checkings in this state, especially powerful because of what happened at the ame church in charleston, south carolina. yesterday, she made it a private visit. she wanted to honor the nine people that were killed during bible study. they're talking powerfully about how you can be pro second amendment, at the same time, support background checks and elimination of assault weapons. trying to talk to those issues that south carolina holds near and dear. the creation of a small business economy held by black women as well as trying to protect the leave al lives here. >> thank you so much. let's talk further. mark mckinnon who served as a senior adviser to the george w. bush and john mccain preside presidential campaignings. host of "thor is cue er icircus on sunday. and kyra mckinney, political comm commentator. also tim mack, political commep ta commentator for npr. in this push to make gun control a major issue. in the past, democrats have tried to avoid this very devicive issue. but then aurora made it particularly poignant, topical for so many to speak out. so, you know, what overall would be driving the decision for candidates to say let's talk about gun control? >> the conversation about gun control has changed over the last decade. it used to be something where the nra could command respect. some moderate democrats and most republicans. we've really seen it's become a polarizing issue. once the democrats took control of the house, they decided they were going to make gun legislation one of their major priorityings. last week, they held one of their first hearings opn gun violence in almost a decade. it's a major issue for democrats. i don't think there's a lot of democrats running for president who can't get helpbehind this legislation. >> you heard senator harris saying it's not about taking your guns away completely. will it be up to the democrats to work really hard to try to send this message, protection of second amendment rights? while at the same time, you know, calling for restrictionings that don't mean establishing your gun taking y away. >> they're not all coastal. a lot are in middle america. that's the trek. but you've got candidates, i believe michael bloomberg, who's been very forward leaning for pay long time. given the attention because of national tragedyings, he's got some traction just because of working on it for a long time. it makes me think with the president calling a national emergency on the border how easy it would be for a democratic president to call a national emergency open somethin somethi this. >> there was thinking after packland things would be different. after las vegas, things would be different. is it still a difficult battle? >> here's the thing i want to be clear about. the issue landscape in the country has changed. is you had 15 republicans replaced by a democrat with an "f" rating with the nra. so many friends of mine had their cheildren coming home, second graders, third graders. saying guess what we did, we got m&ms for being able to hide in the closet without making a sound. an active shooter drill. it becomes a very different issue for parents. regardless of your political affiliation. the fact this is on the minds of your kids. in 2020, it's going to be a national conversation. i don't think any candidate is going to be able to get away from having the conversation, particularly think about the fact that where kamala is in south carolina, in communities of color. the way this issue impacts our communities. very different in the way the nra would cast these issuings. it's going to be a very def rep sae different conversation in 2020. >> perhaps an nra lobby, perhaps some of the power is being taken away, just by virtue of recent very huge sizeable events. >> the year sense parkland has been a pretty negative one for the national rifle association. from their reporting on their finances that their fund-raising is down. their political spending is down. facing a sustained opposition in the group founded by michael bloomberg that they've never seen before. how much of a problem this is creating for their lobbying efforts. the influence has been on the decline. but they still remain a major force to be reckoned with. >> mark, do you feel heading into primary season right now ten democratic candidates potentially, maybe more, you know, that there may be a real mirror image of what we saw in the republican pool of candidates in the last election. or will this be disteinctively different? >> we had 18 candidates back when we started this thing. i think there's that many now already on the democratic side. we got a really good set of candidates, kind of cross the spectrum, the age spectrum. >> what about that whole climate of civility? karen, you know, that was lacking, right, in the last election and almost seems to be like they've collectively, you know, themink about all the tweets, congratulating each other for being in the ration. does that set the tone of civility? >> i think you're going to see it being a much more civil -- we're not going to have someone saying the kinds of things he said during the republican primaries. i just want to go to one other thing when we talk about this gun debate here in the country. remember that mark kelly got not race for snaenate in arizona. he and gabby are national leader it is on this issue. just by him running for senate in 2020, that's really powerful. i hope the democrats will push the nra to explain how it is they were infiltrateled by a russian operative. i think we need to keep them on defense and sort of turn our fire outward rather than at each other. >> all right, karen, tim, mark, thank you so much. don't miss mark mckinnon on the new showtime serie als"the cir . circus." and on cnn, amy klobuchar taking questions in the town hall moderated by don lemon. ♪ t-mobile will do the math for you. join t-mobile and get two phones plus two unlimited plans for just one hundred bucks a month. with cinemastream for less buffering, cinemasound for brilliant clarity, and cinemacolor for ultra vivid color. shop the biggest presidents day ever at dell.com. ♪ you see clear skin. cosentyx can help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. how sexy are these elbows? 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[ scatting ] reach her health goals! i'm in! but first... shelfie! the great-tasting nutrition of ensure. with up to 30 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals! ensure. for strength and energy. as the ink was still drying, the lawsuits were being drawn up. trump gave them even more ammunition with this comment. >> everything else, we have so much, i don't know what to do with it. we have so much mope money. but on the wall, they skipped. i was successful in this sense but i want to do it faster. i'd rather do it much faster. >> jerry nadler sent a strongly worded letter to the president announcing his plans for the emergency declaration. the president's golfing today so it doesn't feel like he's too worried about an emergency. >> well, fred, yesterday and he and the white house being acknowledging this could get tied up in court. that they crafted this with the almost inevitable court battles in mind this is a symbolic move as anything else. trump was under pressure from allies not to spend a bipartisan spending package unless he could claim he was trying to supplement it with additional fund. that spending package gave him less than half of what he asked for. now he's trying to unlock $6 billion with this emergency declaration. for example, from the treasury department's forefir chur funds. this, now, there are a couple of things congress can do. one of them is pass a resolution of disapproval and house democrats said they plan that. and the other is investigate. the democrat already saying he plans to hold hearings about how this came together. the trump administration could face legal challenges. interest groups could challenge the constitutionality of the declaration in court. and land owners alonged border could file cases to stop the government from using emminuine domain. the only money guaranteed to go to construction of the wall is $1.4 billion, including in the spend being paing package trump yesterday. >> one was filed by el paso county and three nonprofit organizations. they claim the order violates the concept of separation of pow powers. the civil liberties union also announced its intent to sue. trump laid out how he thinks the case may unfold in the court. >> we'll have a national emergency. we'll then be sued. they'll sue us in the ninth circuit. and we will possibly get a bad ruling. then we'll get another bad ruling. then the supreme court. hopefully we'll get a fair shake. >> joining me, robert mueller's former special assistant at the justice department michael zelden. good to see you both. paul, the president revealed he had been thinking about it. he knows the sequence of events and how it would be challenged in today's "washington post" reporting, that attorneys in the white house and the president have been talking about this sen since early 2018 about how to go around congress. how much has the president undermined his case? >> well, i think he has undermined the case by kind of suggesting it's not really a national emergency. this is one of many options i thempg think he felt he had. in terms of what happened in court, first, the fact these lawsuits have been filed already, they're premature. sometime als the judges say not ripe for adjudication. the second thing is there's a doctrine that the supreme court often invokings. if it's a political question, a fight between the legislative and executive bank, a lot of time also the supreme court backs off and doesn't get involved in the fight. this law has been evoked probably 50 times in the past. by various presidents. et going to be interestinging to see how it turns out in court. >> do you think the lower court will resolve this matter? that perhaps the executive branch is overreaching here? >> well, this is complicated. i think, and i agree with paul they're a lot of premature legal activity here. the thing that first has to happen is whether or not this declaration of a national emergency is lawful and properly supported. there's nothing that define whags a national emergency is in these laws. it may be the first test is to see whether or not he has met some standard that a court affirm also as a true national emergency. >> now it really is at the discretion of the president? >> that's right. and it is what the president sees it to be in some sense. courts have been deferential to the president. it's been invoked a lot of times in the past year. then the question becomes what happens when they start acting upon the national emergency. when they use the military for example to build the wall. or they divert funds from the asset forfeiture fund. will that provide a basis to provide standing to sue? and will they be able to prevail on the use of those diverted funds? then you've got -- as the setup piece indicated, all these private citizens whose property will be taken away in the imminent domain. they've been sued under this fence act that obama signed that was taking property. most of the property owners lost the suitings. we're in 2018 and they're stilly the gaiti ilitigating the 2006 . so maybe play out the clock and hope for a change in policy. >> can i add -- >> goyes, go ahead, paul. >> i was looking at the words used in the actual proclamation. most agree, you see references in the law, something that threatens the health, safety or welfare of the american people could be a national emergency. that's why for instance when you have a flu epidemic it's off te used. he starts by suggesting this is a military emergency. in that aliens are crossinged border and endangering the health and safety and welfare of the american public. he also says because we don't have adequate facilities to deal with family also that are crossing the border illegally, that there's a hint that their health, welfare andthreatened b adequate security at the border. so try doing justify the use of this very unusual presidential power. >> wouldn't he have to establish it, you know, while you've got this double pronged challenge, you've got citizens challenging, then congress who will challenge, well thae, that's no funds are appropriated. now the president himself reappropriating funds. >> classic battle. between the lenggislative branc and executive brampnch. usually the supreme court is supposed to step in. we'll have to see. >> this is what utah republican senator mike lee tweeted. my initial assessment is what president trump announced is legal. whether or not it should be legal is a different matter. congress has been ceding far too much power to the executive branch for decades. we should use this moment as an opportunity to start taking that power back. so, michael, what is he laying the groundwork for? how potentially would they do that? >> well, by exercising their constitutional prerogatives. we've seen this debate a lolt i the wars that have been exercised by executive privilege power in a sense. there's been no war declarations for v tmany of the wars we're fighting. president should have the right to declare war. congress has not put up much of a fight. lee is trying to say we, congress, have been at fault here. we have ceded too much authority. whether there's wailingness to do that around this issue or more broadly remains to be seen. but he's right. if you believe that presidents have taken it upon themselves to do things unilaterally, then the hel legislative branch has to step up on its own behalf. >> thank you. coming up, the u.s. is urging americans to get out of haiti amid protests against the government there. tourists trapped as demonstrations grow in the streets. what's behind the unrest? next. we're drowning in information. where in all of this is the stuff that matters? 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>> i'm not a plitd call person but i think maybe they want the president to step down because i think they're very destitute and treated -- they have no running water, no bathrooms, zero health care. very destitute here. they're just taking desperate measures to make a change for themselves. >> larging th launching this go page for your own evacuation. do you have any concept when you could get out? >> we have secured a helicopter. as of 9:00 last night. a haitian helicopter but we can't leave until monday. >> that helicopter would land at the compound and fly them directly to the port-au-prince airport. a new twist in the alleged a tack attack of tv star jussie smollett. why did police release two men hours after they were arrested? want a performance car that actually fits your life? introducing the new 2019 ford edge st. capability meets power. in the first suv from the ford performance team. the new 2019 ford edge st wirethat's not right.nth? it's right, all right. now, chunky-style milk? 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otezla. show more of you. ready to treat differently with a pill? hello to the best part of the day. and to the best night ever. these are the primo moments. and they call for italian quality pizza. dough made from scratch daily. sauce...from the original giammarco recipe. say hello to an authentic favorite... times two. every day at marco's, get two medium, one-topping pizzas for $6.99 each. every store. every day. the italian way. hello primo. i saw my leg did not look right. i landed. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner that's... proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. xarelto® works differently. warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your body's natural blood-clotting factors. xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. while taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. learn all you can... to help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. new questions surrounding the alleged attack on empire star jussie smollett. police arrested two suspectings, interrogated them and then set them free. the police saying they have new evidence from those conversations but they are soilasoi soilasoil an enon what that evidence is. this began with police saying the attack of smollett, you know, may have been a hate crime. they were tackling it very seriously. where is it now? >> so many twists and turns in this case. people want to know what happened. this happened in a certain area of chicago. a lot of attacks don't happen leak th like this in that area. last 48 hours have been quite crazy. the two men picked up who were then not charged but arrested have not been charged. they've been released. police have talked about this new evidence. so far they haven't told us what that new evidence may be. this all go back to january 29. i see the photo. the two persons of interest. that's who police were looking for. when they arrived, they were met by detectives. they were brought in. questioned for several hour. of course they were released. goes back to the actor. he says he went to subway. op on the way back, he was attacked. he said they put a rope around his neck and poured bleach on him. he said he fought back. since then of course police have been trying to ask questions about which direction did they run in, did the attack get captured in video surveillance. according to the actor, the camera was pointed in a different direction. 12 detectives have been working this case. they have developed several leads. that led us to the two men. there's this big question about what happens neck. they want to talk to the actor to figure out how all these details converge. a lot of questions about this. the actor himself feeling the heat. social media has taken on a whole different questioning about whether or not the story even stands up at this opponent. >> do we know when this new conversation between police and jussie smollett might happen? >> that's the other big question. detectives are working another weekend on this case. of course avenue tievery time t release more, they have to make sure it all lines up. the one thing they talked about, his phone records. he gave partial phone record. will he give them more records? what know of course police will be resetting this investigation, going aflter it. hopefully the new evidence. and get some more twist and turns in this story. the head of cyber security at the democratic national committee is issuing a stark warning to presidential candidates. we'll explain next. ♪ ♪ t-mobile will do the math for you. join t-mobile and get two phones plus two unlimited plans for just one hundred bucks a month. new lysol wipes are crazy strong. don't believe us? we got this workout class to compare them to clorox. wow! feel the strength of new lysol wipes. dude! are you looking at this? can i take those? no. lysol. what it takes to protect.® ensure max protein... to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. 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(cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. in two great flavors. when your flight gets in late, it's never too early for coffee. oh no no no. your new boss seems cool, but she might not be sweatpants cool. who is that ready this early? it's only 7 am. somebody help me. close call. not quite ready to face the day? that's why we're here with free hot breakfast and a warm welcome. book at hampton.com for our price match guarantee. hampton by hilton. for rough, dry skin discovered by hard working farmers who shared it with family who recommended it to friends. udderly smooth, the moisturizer for rough, dry skin with no greasy after feel. hard working moisture-rich udderly smooth. ♪ don't fence me in. ♪ let me be by myself ♪ in the evenin' breeze, ♪ listen to the murmur of the tall concrete, ♪ ♪ send me off forever, but i ask you please ♪ ♪ don't fence me in. special offers available at your local mini dealer. with cinemastream for less buffering, cinemasound for brilliant clarity, and cinemacolor for ultra vivid color. shop the biggest presidents day ever at dell.com. ♪ at dell.com. - (phone ringing)a phones offers - big button,ecialized phones... and volume-enhanced phones., get details on this state program. call or visit and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program call or visit the head of cyber security for the democratic national committee says now is the time that hackers may try to target candidates. that's because the campaigns haven't had time to put a security plan in place. i want to bring in former secret service agent for president obama, jonathan wakrow. what are the risks that campaigns should be most focused on? >> i look at it in two big buckets. i'm in agreement focusing on cybersecurity issues for campaigns is actually critical for the candidates that have an exploratory committee out and those who are actually just in the process of thinking about running. you know, foreign hostile actors are looking keenly at these campaigns. how you can implement the crown jewels of the campaigns. it's, when i think about those crown jewels, it's the donors, the donor lists. their strategy, polling data. everything these campaigns hold, you know, close is potential data that can be stolen. right now, these campaigns have really run physical security operations of low opticings. the whole point is put the candidate out front. get them the greatest exposure as pospossible. really reelt roight now it's th two sides that are most critical. >> is there a way they need to be preparing, address these potential holes? >> it's awareness within the campaign. when from cyber, physical, campion leadership has to understand the threats they face, the vulnerabilities of their action and the best way to approach mitigation. just the temporary nat ur of campaigning. they focus attention on messaging. these sort of administrative functions are sort of related to their overall operatiooperation. we've seen the midterms in 2020 that this sis a critical opponent, where campaigns need to focus on these risks. gunfire on the job. a community in mourning today after police say a disgruntleled wo d disgruntled person opened fire at his job in illinois. lean, it's finished. switch to finish quantum. recommended by ge appliances. you see clear skin. cosentyx can help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur. how sexy are these elbows? ask your dermatologist about cosentyx. ask your dermatologist ♪ ♪ ♪ but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ when cravings hit, hit back. it's the most wonderful life on earth. choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. ♪ ♪ (clap, clap) olly. the highest ranking catholic figure being expelled after a trial found him guilty of sexually abusing minors. >> reporter: he was once a prince of the church and a friend of presidents. he enjoyed a spectacular career at the heart of power in washington and rome. when the u.s. cardinals were summoned to the vatican by john paul ii at the beginning of the sex abuse scandal, he was the face of that crisis. advocating zero tolerance for abusers. i can't see how anyone in the united states today would cover up something like that. >> reporter: he was created a cardinal in 2001 by john paul ii. around that time, an american priest wrote to the vatican to warn him of rumors that the cardinal was sexually abusing seminari seminarians. no action was taken until mccarrick was quietly advised not to travel or be seen in public and lead a life of prayer and presence to avoid further rumors. a recommendation which the cardinal seemed to continued to appear in public even in the conclave that electled francis. then allegations that he abuse a mine e minor were found credible. he resigned as cardinal. something that's rarely happened in the history of the dacatholi church. by now, 88, infor imirm, he did attend in person. we've got more ahead in the "newsroom," and it starts right now. hello, again, everyone. i'm fred wrericka whitfield. the mass shooting in illinois is drawing strong reaction from presidential candidates. senator booker tweeting, my heart is with the loved ones of the horrific shooting. we know our thoughts april
explain why he diverted your tax money to pay for a wall he said mexico was going to pay for. >> it is a fret thing to do. we have invasion of drugs, people, gangs, it is unacceptable. everyone knows that walls work and there are better examples than el paso. we won't need the military, we'll have a wall. we are in wars that we never should have been in in many cases because we don't control our own border, so we will confront the national computer crisis on our border, there is a lot of times that is creates precedent and many of those are far less important than having a border. i expect to be sued, i shouldn't be, and other people say if you use it for this, what are we using it for? we have to get rid of drugs and gangs and people it's an invasion. >> there is a lot of department of homeland security data showing border crossings at a near low. >> excuse me, it is still massive levels. >> it shows undocumented immigrants committing crime at lower levels than native born americans -- >> i'm asking you to clarify where you get your numbers. most of the dea crime sporting statistics show that drugs are coming in through ports of entry. what do you base your facts on? >> let's go. no no. you get one. okay? just sit down. sit down. could you please sit down? >> your own government stats are wrong are you saying? >> no, i use many stats. >> can you share them with us. >> your stats are far worse an the ones we use. i use many stats. >> something we have in common, i use many stats, too. ly use one to show you the president's claims are devoid of fact and the president's national emergency is looking more like a political emergency. the washington post puts it that republican leaders accepted the declaration to escape the corner in which trurp and his party were trapped. kelly o'donnell asked him how much outside conservative voices have shaped his view. >> can you tell us to what degree some of the outside conservative voices help to shape your views on this national emergency. >> sean hannity has been a terrific terrific supporter of what i do. not of me. if i changed my views he would not be with me, rush limbaugh, she a great guy. >> ann coulter, don't know her, i have not spoken to her, but the press loves saying ann coulter. >> with this national emergency the president will have access to roughly $8 billion to build some of his wall, his wall would cost more than $8 billion to be clear, so what is he diverting from your tax collars? first 1.375 that congress agreed to in a spending bill. the language in there says specifically that money is for fencing and existing barrier technology, $600 million would come from the treasury department's drug forfeiture. money would come from the drug interdiction program. according to the chair of the house military committee, veteran's affairs sub committee, these are funds that could have been youthed for defense intelligence centers and f 35 maintenance facilities and hangers. it is not just something with which washington disagrees, trump himself said it. in 2014 donald trump slammed president balm for his use of executive actions. repubs must not allow prez obama to subvert with the constitution of the u.s. for his own benefit because he is unable to negotiate with congress. joining me right now is jeff benlt. the president made this declaration. he has come under criticism for that rambling hour long thing full of lies. >> democrats as we know are threatening to challenge the emergency declaration. but he also has his allies, some republicans on capitol hill that are saying this is unorthodox. so i put that question to sarah huckabee sanders, how is the white house dealing with this push back from republicans, here is that exchange. >> what is your response to those that say they're uncomfortable with the president's national emergency. >> it is 100% in the president's national authority, and part of his duty to protect the people of this country. frankly if people and members of congress had a problem with it they should have done more to address and get more problems solved in the legislation so the president would not have to take executive action. so it also gives congress the authority to rescind it. in the short term they believe he has calmed the criticism. they view it has a short term win. >> the president said? his comments this morning that he had not spoken to ann coulter in a year but if he did speak to her that would not be the case. >> this is someone we trust as a competent man to run the government. this is a decent person who ought to be the commander in chief. okay, none of that was true with trump. no one thought oh, look, he was governor of the biggest state in the union. he used to run the cia, he was reag reagan's vice president, you know, he was fdrs no, it was one thing, the promise he made every single day at every single speech. so forget the fact that he's digging his own grave, this is just -- look, the only national emergency is that our president is an idiot. jeff, we don't normally run a lot of ann koulter on the show, but right before the last shut down when he agreed to the bill, it was the criticism from the right including ann coulter that caused him to change his mind. he is trying to thread a needle here signing a bill to declare this emergency, and it's not having the desired effect. >>. >> right, and we know they exert enormous influence. i think that is why kelly o'donnell's question today was so spot on, she was trying to have the president express on his own part how his relationship with these three people informs his decision making, here is a little more of the exchange. >> i went through congress, i made a deal, i got nearly $1.4 billion when i was not supposed to get $1. not going to get $1. and i got $1.4 billion. and i want more. i have already done a lot of wall. for the election, 2020, and the only reason we're up here talking about this is because of the election. because they want to try to win an election which it looks like they're not going to be able to do. >> so that was a different sound bite, but in a different exchange he said he didn't have to do this, he did it as speeding up the process. he said this is a purely political pursuit. the president in articulating a policy goal does not a national emergency maek, it makes a political emergency. >> the declaration is not coming without a fight. they say they have used everything available to challenge him, nancy pe lowed it a power grab. one congresswoman from new york confirmed that she and joaquin castro will file a block. the context here is that there are things that the democratic party can do, democrats in congress can do, and other thichks that are happening, this is going to be subject to a lot of challenge. >> that is right and we will see an all of the above effort. the first lawsuit i have seen is coming from the aclu. but they voted on the spending bill portion of this. so we have been piecing together reaction from lawmakers including on the campaign trail. here was kamala harris in south carolina today. >> i think this declaration of an emergency is completely unnecessary. it is playing politics with taxpayer resources. it is about creating a crisis out of his own making because of a vanity project he feels he needs to pursue. when we look at the real effect of this on american families and taxpayers we're looking at a real possibility of diverting military resources for this vanity project. we're looking at imminent domain, government taking private homeowners land. >> stick a bookmark in that idea that it could effect military readiness. i know this is the kind of thing that would have driven john mccain crazy, but watch out for money being diverted from military projects to anything that might have to o deal with training and readiness. when those things take funding kets they get very upset. i have seen daytimes from tom tillis. they both say they don't approve of this. they are not going as far ass assayiassa saying they condemn it, he doesn't go as far as to say that he supports the president in this, he says that democrats need to work with mens to come up with solutions for funding deals in the future. you could see the rift in the senate about how to handle this that i think could be very interesting to watch. >> thank you, garrett haake for us on capitol hill. >> there was a lot of lies that the president used. to unpack it all, let's bring in our white house correspondent, the former chief of staff to joe biden, and daniel day, let me start with you, daniel, you, in the way that the president deals in lies, you deal with documenting many of them. lots of people have gotten used to the fact that he lies about things, but this is of great concern to many americans. something that the president has had the right to do for years now, and the second is that the money will not come out of nowhere. when he gets them a different way it is still the people's money. >> that is right, he said probably more people than ever before are trying to cross the border. a ppprehension at the southwest border is a quarter of what it was two decades ago. that is not even close to true. he said rejecting his own government's conclusion that it is a lie that most drugs that come through mexico come through legal ports of entry. when it was pointed out to him that illegal immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate, he said do you believe that data? and talking about human trafficking, he said that cannot happen in legal ports because the women that are supposedly tied up with their mouths taped. and they said that many women are not brought through like this, they are tricks or coerced into going. >> big kudos to the white house press corps today. he told one of the reporters to sit down, he told people they have their facts wrong. this subpoena a situation in which the president used falsehoods, lies, other facts, wrong facts with to appeal to, i don't know if it is his base or right wing commentators, some of whom are not with him anyway. >> i was in the road garden today when he was talking about this and he was using all sorts of misleading information. i think it is remarkable that he today before the press and said i don't know where the numbers are from, i don't know if i trust them when they're from his own government. he said the majority of people in federal businesses are undocumented immigrants we know that is not true. i was on the bureau of pr prisoners website today. the president wants to have these numbers, but he doesn't want to say where they're from. we said hey, where can they come from? can you show us what numbers you're talking about and instead he was saying laura ingram, sean hannity, he says they're doing great jobs. >>. >> this is problematic, the courts will determine this and it seemed obvious that the courts will determine this, but the idea is that there is 125 laws or something that apply to national emergency problems and they do contribute to the idea that they are been giving the checktive more and more authority overtime. what is your sense of this and your concern of the national policy and the spending of $8 billion might be at the behest of right wing media hosts. >> yeah. he hopes, and not even that, because ann coulter is out to get him. i think as we said, there is a raft of lies coming from the president today the biggest one is the lie that i don't need to do this. the real sly that he could not get the money passed through congress. he could not get it from mexico that he promised he would get from mexico, and the only way to get it dope is to rob federal spending accounts to build this vanity project. he is taking money from drug control to build a wall. >> that is one that we should be concerned about, we do have a problem with drugs in this country and $8 billion could do a lot of work in a lot of areas. thank you to all three of you. joe biden, daniel gore, let's take a look at what it means to and for the president to declare a national emergency and what congress could do about it. the national emergencies act went into effect in 1976. including the first one punishing the iranian government after the 1979 u.s. embassy hostage crisis. also in effect the declaration after the september 11th attacks. he activates a slew of powers including the ability to take control of certain land like farmland to begin military building projects, making advance payments on contracts and to activate military units for up to two years. that is just a small chunk of what is granted. so the question is, what can congress do? congress would need to point a joyce resolution. like any other bill, that law would go to the president's desk to be signed. the president can then veto that. it would require a two thirds super majority, but mitch mcconnell announcing he would support the declaration seems liely unlikely. and they are likely making their way up to the salespeople court fairly quickly. on that note, the president himself conceded that he expected his declaration to be challenged legally. >> we'll have a national emergency, and we will then be sued and they will sue us in the nooipt circuit but it should not be there, and we will possibly get a bad ruling and then we will get another bad ruling, and then we will end up in the supreme court, and hopefully we'll get a fair shake, win in the supreme court, just like the ban. >> interesting the way he presented that. trumps willingness to use emergency powers is likely to go down as an extraordinary violation of constitutional norms setting a precedent that future presidents of both parties may emulate to unilaterally achieve their own policy goals. joining me now is charlie savage. i think one of the foremost experts on the use of executive power, charlie, this is not knew to this president, she not using an authority that has not otherwise been provided to him or other presidents, we have 31 of these national emergencies reegt now. >> it is the same but it is totally unprecedented in what matters. emergency power laws are basically standing by authorities that congress delegated where they could do something they would not normally be able to do. there was a crisis that the government has to move fast and you could do this thing in that situation. a lot of the times this involves sanctioning foreibag actors, pe involved in smuggling weapons of mass destruction. you can freeze their -- the majority of these five dozeen or so emergency powers, they look like that. there is nothing that looks like -- in the mistire of the united states, and especially since the modern era, where a president went to congress, said i want you to fund this policy goal of mine, congress considered it and decided not to fund it, and then the president said we'll i'm just going to declare an emergency and access that money anyway. that is a violation of norms of self-restrai self-restraint. congress is given this authority to the executive branch so they can use it fast when they need it. and this is the first time that a president said i'm going to use it for my own political -- >> i want to just read this again. emergency power statutes are laws enacted by congress that prevent the president to take steps that would be normally forbidden by law. it allows them to move quickly. the president said i didn't need to do this, but i wanted to move fast, the basis for invoking that law is a viable national crisis. in the past have they been called on to justify what they think a national crisis is? that is at the heart of this. >> no, because no previous president has invoked emergency powers in a situation -- it is a matter of dispute that there is even an emergency. i have never been able to tell, a legal challenge to whether or not an emergency exists, so we don't know what courts are likely to do when the inevitable lawsuit or pile of lawsuits is brought against the trump a administration in this fact. they can say we agree or disagree in the emergency here, or they will say that is for the other branchs. we will not consider if it is true, we'll just look at whether or not the statute that trump is trying to apply mabs on to this situation, and there is some technical questions, too. we don't know if they will examine the voracity of the emergency in the first laplace. >> thank you very much for always helping us out. breaking news, a judge issued a partial gag order in the roger san antonio case. as you know he is a former advisor, and he pleased not guilty to charms brought by robert mueller. this is hard to get my head around, the judge told the guy who is charged to stop talking. >> yeah, they don't want him to make any prejudicial commented about the case. if the rin why some people are calling it a full or a partial. the reason why i called it partial is there is nothing that says he can't can't about the border wall or anything else in this case, but as it relates he is not allowed to make those statements. and she doesn't want these outside press conferences or press events they have hads -- this is not something in a high profile case, this is not surpris surprised. but this would talk against him, right. roger stone doesn't help him in a court of law. >> it may if you talk all day long and you say i'm not guilt, i'm not guilt, and eyou're speaking to the jury pool, then he doesn't have to testify at his trial, the judge doesn't want that to occur. the prosecution says we hold all of the cards here, do you want all of this out before there is a jury in place. so what you have here is a judge trying to say no fighting out on the streets, save it for the ring. >> we just got confirmation of the fact that sarah sanders was interviewed as part of the mueller investigation, apparently done voluntarily. she said she was happy to cooperate with the special council. apparently it took place in late summer or early fall of 2018 around the same time that john kelly was interviewed. do you have any sense of why that would be important? she played a smaller role in the time leading up to the inauguration. and she got a promotion to press secretary. >> a year before she was interviewed, according to her daytime, a year before that we reported first that special council mueller was looking at statements made about that meeting when he was on his way back to saudi arabia. they were working on this story that we all now know, and other people, as well as top people in the trump campaign including the president's son, so those statements and why they were made were under scrutiny as part of the investigation. so if you're looking into the president's public statements and statements being made by this administration, you want to talk to the person that was in the press shop and later became press secretary. who said this, who said that, to me it is a natural part of the investigation, it doesn't signify to me the changes that are coming. that the testimony or the interview hatched, it sounds like it was an interview, so her discussions with law enforcement and it tells me this is an area they continued to look into. this would have been when there was more steps. to me it is when you have done as much as you can, you want to challenge their answers, and we want to swree that investigation may go and this is generally consistent with where we thought the investigation may -- >> the issue here is that if there was any attempts to cover anything up, or obstruct investigationers or an obstruction of justice inquiry, the question is not whether or not she is come police sit, but she may have been in a room where discussions occurred and decisions were made. >> yeah, if you want to understand a strategy or the actions taken, you want to talk to everyone in that room. we try to do the same thing talk to everyone that we can and get a more full picture. >> you can get the truth or figure out inconsistencies. >> or even just opposing types of view. it makes sense to me that special council mueller would have done and i think it is entirely consistent. >> stay close on this, we'll continue to follow, we have other breaking news right now. police in aurora, illinois are responding to reports of an active shooter at the henry platt company. students in the west aurora district are in a soft lock down. we're looking to confirm details from the scene, we will bring more to you once it breaks. let me tell you more about it. they manufacture valves for waste water. it is a company, a subsidiary of mueller water products. this is a company that has been in the area since 1903 so it is a big deal in the aurora area, they are a suburb of chicago, illinois. we don't have a lot of information right now, but what we do know is that the students at the west aurora school district are in a soft lock down, but we don't have in any about a shootter near a school. police are only saying that the company staff were at the sight. we don't know about injuries. let me first tell you about the school. west aurora school district says all students are being held in place for their safety after reports of the active shooter. the direct has been advised to go into soft lock down. they will resume formal operations when police let them know that the scene is safe, but no one is allowed to leave or enter the lock down has been lifted. now let's go back to where the shooting is at the henry platt company. we know very little right now. illinois state police are sending troopers to the scene, but the initial response was from police in the city of aurora. they sent out a tweet moments ago that said alert there is an active shooter near high land and archer. police on the and it, more will be known soon. this is, again, just so you know the context that we have, we often hear about shooters because you hear the reports of how many people get shot on a daily basis. every now and then something happens to make us fear that it is yet more serious than the daily o kurccurrences of shoote that occur in the united states and that's the kind of thing that is happening here. police are calling it an active shooter, there are all sorts of unconfirmed reports. it isle kind of thing that gives us pause and makes us say let's just break away for a second and pay attention to what is happens. aurora is outside of chicago, the illinois state police said they are sending troopers to the scene. it is the henry pratt company. we know very little from police. that there are staff in the building, they sent police command staff to the sight which means to me they're setting up a command center, and that is something police often do when they believe something is fairly serious. we're waiting to get reports fromfire, from emt, from hospitals in the area. about what is going on and what we have not got is that information yet, but we're getting various unconfirmed reports of an active shooter. people are listening to local scanners to get that information to us as well. we don't have any details information yet. district 29 is being held in place at schools, it is a soft lock down, no one is allowed in and out of the schools, but we don't believe there is any active shooters at the and it of the schools, it's just the way that things go today. people's first concern goes to what's happening at the schools because we have seen so many school shootings. they're not reporting any shooters in aurora. we're hearing reports of an active shooter, not someone with a gun, reports of an active shooter at a manufacturing company called the henry pratt company that manufactures water valves for industrial projects. again, it is part of a company, a publicly traded company headquartered in atlanta, georgia. we're reaching out to that company to find out as well what they know but in an active shooter situation a company's first priority is not to get information to the media. what we're looking for is information from the local police and pyfire about what is going on. a quick recap of what we know, we're looking at a shot, i believe this is from wmaq, but our control room will just confirm that. the area around where the plant is is at highland and arch in aurora is now shut down for several blocks. if you look at that picture you should not see anything moving except merge vehicles. it is a large plant as you can see. so it takes up a lot of land and it has been shut down. somebody working at a local restaurant told media that someone walked in and asked about what was going on because there are all sorts of police cars with lights and sirens on, but this person had not heard shots fired. there are 18 schools in the district, the closest school is 2.5 miles away. want to go to wmaq who is providing these shots. >> right now she can't pick up her kids, maria where do they go to school? >> they go to holy angels, it is a catholic school close to where it happened. >> yes, they have been on hard lock down, what did you hear from the school? >> i got an e-mail a couple minutes ago and it says that we can't go pick up our kids yet. if we go close to the parking lot the police will reroute us. so don't pick up your kids yet. right now everybody is calling each other, can't call the school, my son is not answering his phone. they get out at 2:30, so i'm at work right now and it is just nerve racking. >> what are your kids ages. one is 12, the other is nine. >> so your 12-year-old is a boy and he has a phone? >> yes, he does and they are probably somewhere inside of the school. >> he may not have access, a lot of schools tell the kids to put their phones away until he gets out. tell me i'm sure, i'm a mother of a 12-year-old myself, i can't imagine being told something like that. it has to be pretty distressing. >> yeah, they have drills every so often and they're used to those, but you can't get used to something like this real thing. i'm imagining their so traumatized right now. >> i know you do. >> i can't concentrate right now. >> i'm sure. where are you in relation to the company? >> i'm 20 miles away from the school. are you asking where the school is at? >> no, i know where the school is near by, are you near by, what's the scene where you are? is the entire aware of what is happening? >> yeah, everyone is aware and i'm not physically there because they told us we can't pick up the kids yet, but all of my friend who's are parents themselves, close to the area, they said there is a lot of cops, a chopper, a lot of police there already. but the shooter is still at large. >> so you're hearing -- >> who told you that, we don't want to put that out there if we have not heard it from an official source. >> so there has been a bit of talk, any parent would want to be talking to other parents. >> and we will continue to pass on investigation we get from others. west aurora is on a soft lock down. 18 schools there. a soft lock down and we will let you know once they open, but right now school should be let out but they will not be letting students out at this point because of this reported active shooter search that the city of aurora sent out a tweet about it. they have flooded the scene -- >> we will continue to monitor our coverage from wmaq, i want to bring in a former atf agent, jim kavanaugh, unfortunately you and i have gotten good at listening in, watching social media, and understanding when something is more serious than others. would being able to confirm a lot of the information we're seeing, this looks like a serious shooting. >> it does, it lookist li iss ly be confined to the pratt company now. there is a lot of attention in the city of aror ra, but families and coworkers are in that building, sko law enforcement is there quick, swath may be inside already, when you get a facility that large you're looking for one or two people that could be the active killers, you're asking that witnesses will point away, but you have to find them quickly and stop them. >> we're getting word from atf head quarters that they're reporting it. the cane county that aurora is in is now saying there is an active shooter in aurora. we have a shut down for several blab blocks around the area. wmaq reporting. schools should be getting out shortly. all of these things coming together, including word from local hospitals and emt. we're not often wrong about these local things, there is a tenor to them that we are not followi following. they tend to get dispatched without very good reason. >> we're always hoping it can be over quick. sometimes these things turn out better than you hope, but there is a lot of people employed there, you talk about active shooters are inside. you hope that you can get there before someone else -- there is less people present at smaller establishments, sometimes it's not an area where you can kill a lot of people. foot officers, motorcycle officers, you can spot the guy chasing them, or guys, and stop it. when you get in these large buildings, everything is complicated and it puts angst on it. you don't know, and aurora pd is on it, i always hope they will fizzle. >> i want nothing more than to be wrong. we just got word now from the school district, there are reports, this is a note to participants an akive shooter at the pratt building, we're holding all district students here for safety. the district has been advised to go into a shoft -- soft lock down. the message is then repeats aee spanish. we're getting responses from other police departments around the country who always have a reaction to these things because they don't know what it is. new york police department counter terrorism says we're monitoring the reports of a possible active shooter incident in aurora, illinois. i want to bring in kevin ti tibbles. >> you two fellas have summed it up as much as we know at this point in time in that it was less than an hour ago that word wept out of an active shooter in the pratt building. for 100 yaears they have made valves for machinery. this is about an hour or so west of the city. there are a number of schools in the area, and those are on soft lock down, and one of the conversations they was just having before coming on with you is that this is again happening on a friday afternoon. it was a friday afternoon ten years ago that we were here in the chicago bureau and there was an active shooter situation. also west of the city at the university of illinois where five young students lost their lives and this makes us stand back and consider what is going on in our own lives. we don't have the details of what is happening in the pratt company. we don't have the details as to how many aumofficers, how many s.w.a.t. team members. we flow a chopper in the aeroand people in the area that the entire area has been swarmed. >> i want to point out that it is a fairly high end and wide shot. it is a big plant. this is not a small shop, this is not a little place to go into, but also we learn about these things because we have to report so many of them and we don't want to indicate police movements to anyone else that could be watching this. tell us what aurora is, it is a bedroom community, a commuter community. >> it is a distance from chicago, but i would refer to it as a suburb. in and around we have o 'hare airport to the west of the city. you have areas filled with warehouses, small manufacturing, manufacturing like the stuff that was being done at this pratt it is an industryian sort area. it is a place where people live in the community monday to friday. >> i want to go to our affiliate on the ground that was on their way to pick up their child. both of their teachers sent messages on the platforms they said that the children are happy and playing games and they're not allowed to leave right now. >> how close is freeman to the shooting? >> google says three miles. >> how are you dealing with this and feeling right now? i know it has to be pretty frustrating. >> i'm very nervous and scared, praying for their safety and all of the kids and families involved in this. things like this are happening in our community. at this point? >> our kids' school, actually they let out at 2:20 normally so their bus would be coming right no walking down to the corner so they must not have gotten the message. so i haven't really talked to anybody else in the district. >> too often these things -- just out of curiosity, we're hearing about these things happening too often. have your kids had any active shooter drills of any kind, do you know? >> yes, they do at school unfortunately. they're prepared for this type of situation so the kids are familiar with what soft lockdown is and there are places they go in the classroom and not being able to leak. even at a young age, living in these critical times we're in, they are prepared for this. and teachers are well trained as well. >> as parents it's tough to have that conversation. whatever you told your kids in the past about situations like this? >> every morning we pray for their safety. he know the times we're living in are difficult. we tell them to make sure they follow the instructions of the teachers, that the teachers, of course, have their best interest at mind and hearts. we try to tell them age-appropriate things but they're pretty aware of what's going on. >> unfortunately in this day and age, it only makes sense to make children more aware. and as hard as it is to have to have those conversations with them, obviously a day like this reminds us it's important that they know how to protect themselves as well. >> exactly. >> christina, i can't imagine what you're going through. i know it's got to be so, so tough not to be able to hug those babies of yours right away. but you hold on there. one blessing is that you're a distance away, good three miles away from the what appears to be a somewhat contained scene. we haven't heard much activity outside of the henry pratt company. >> we will continue to monitor our affiliate wmaq, which is where that is coming from. a very large company, henry pratt plat in aurora, illinois. seco second largest city in illinois. second by chicago. by the way, you were hearing from a parent at a school 3 1/2 miles away. there are 18 schools in the district on a lockdown. there is a school that is very close to the district. it's holy angel school. it's actually very close to the plant. but there is no reporting of any shooters at the schools. this is when school was about to be let out. police closed down the area around that plant to contain this. again, we do not have confirmed reports of what's going on. but here's what we do know officially. aurora, illinois, police have tweeted -- we have an ongoing active shooter incident at 641 archer avenue. this is an ongoing active scene. we will provide more information once confirmed. police have told us they set up a command post in the area. i want to bring in shawn henry, former executive assistant director of the fbi and nbc news national security analyst. also have kevin tibbles with me and jim kavanaugh. shawn, what does all of this tell you? the police are saying it's an active scene. they're setting up a command post. the cane county officials are calling it an active shooter situation. atf in chicago is saying they're responding to an active shooter situation. the city of aurora has tweeted out it's an active shooter situation. and you see the response that we've got with them shutting down the schools. >> yep. i think, ali, this is really the community civic service getting information out to the schools, ensuring citizens in the area who may be monitoring the news feeds, that they've got some awareness of what's happening. for them to be saying it is an active shooter conclusively like that, they may have contact with people who are inside the building who are providing information via cell phones. we've seen that typically in these type of incidents where you have people who secreted themselves, they're hiding in the building and providing intelligence to law enforcement outside and law enforcement by speaking to the community just trying to keep everybody alert. i'm just monitoring this here, just getting up to speed and i'm watching the feed, who appears to be tactical officers that are staging outside of that facility. but the typical response when you have an active shooter, and you've got people inside the building, is for officers to go into the building and to try to neutralize the threat. so while we see officers on the outside, if this is in fact an active shooter as they described it, i expect there would be tactical officers going in. what might also be happening potentially is they might have engaged somebody who is in the building in a discussion, a hostage situation perhaps where they are negotiating with somebody inside. so while there may have been a shooter, perhaps they've engaged with somebody and they are in a discussion, talking about hostages. this is clearly all speculation, ali. we don't have all of the facts. but as we're watching the scene here, i think it's important to consider all of the variables as officers are preparing. their number one priority is the safety and welfare of the people that are inside that building. when i look at this facility, it looks like it's spread out widely. this is a manufacturing facility. a lot of what appears to be warehouses, loading docks and that sort of thing, cavernous area perhaps. that's difficult from a tactical perspective to go into. officers are evaluating the situation. >> it's very different than a lot of situations we cover where there are a limited number of entrances, a smaller footprint of the place. clint van zandt is with me, former fbi agent, also msnbc contributor. we've got shawn and clint and jim. i have to tell those of you watching us, i understand it's hard to make sense of this because we're telling you what information we don't have. but there's a lot of reporting of information that causes us, clint, to suspect this is serious. what we -- what shawn was just saying, which is a real change from the way we have handled these potential hostage or shooting situations over the decades is now when police get there, they tend to go in. but when you're going into a factory as opposed to a shop that has one front door and one backdoor, it's a very different tactical response. >> and part of the challenge, too, number one we do go into the building but as you're saying right now, we have multiple buildings. so you've got s.w.a.t. teams, you have small groups of one and two officers or agents. if the active shooter is still there. their -- they're entering each of these buildings trying to find an active shooter if there is one right now. i'm getting reports suggesting individuals have been injured, that officers may or may not have engaged with a potential shooter. all of this right now comes in so fast, and i think msnbc, like others, is being very careful what we report until we absolutely know. >> right. and jim, that's part of the issue, right? when things like this happen, it's kind of remarkable the amount of information that comes in, some of which turns out to be true in the end, some of which isn't. but you and i one year ago were talking about parkland, where we were saying, you know, the hospitals had been prepared for a mass casualty event but we had not seen any ambulances, we had not seen what was going on. what we know is cities take this seriously. they do math about how serious could this be? how many workers are there? and they prepare for the worst-case scenario and pray that it's not. >> that's exactly right. clint is correct on that. we're all sort of waiting and hoping maybe this will fizzle and be lesser and less. but remember, let's look at the task of the on-scene commander. the on-scene commander's first objective in here is he's got to locate the people who are possibly shooting, shooter or shooters. that's what you're talking about, ali, a large facility. this is extremely difficult these big warehouses and manufacturing facilities, trucking facilities. all kinds of boxes, places to hide, all kinds of steel in these places, nooks and crannies. remember the officers have probably never been in the place p good s.w.a.t. teams try to survey many of the structures in their cities but it's almost impossible to do every place. certainly every place isn't high risk. so they're probably in an environment they've never been in. they've got to hope the other employees can -- employees of the building can steer them maybe to go here or there and that's where the shooter or shooters went. and that's what they're likely doing right now. the other side is when you get into these bigger facilities, besides what i described, sometimes these guys can escape. look at the parkland shooter, that loser, the killer there, escaped from the school. the school is large. it was a large facility, multiple buildings, so he was able to kill and leave. that's why it's smart money to have the school locked down, neighborhood locked down. these people can get in a large building, shoot, kill and leave. and it's hand on many occasions. also, they can kill themselves or the police can kill them or an employee can kill them or surrender. there are many things that can happen but it's not out of the realm of possibilities they can leave. >> jim, thank you. jim kavanaugh, clint van zandt, kevin tibbles, shawn henry. thank you for helping me out with this coverage. i as a journalist don't like to be wrong. i very much pray that my reporting for the last 20 minutes has been wrong. this is from bill foster, united states representative, who said my office is aware of the situation and is monitoring it closely. thank you to all of the first responders who are on the scene right now. we have heard word from several schools in the area that they are beginning dismissals. they will do it on a interval basis. we're going to continue our coverage of this. nicolle wallace picks it up right now. hi, everyone. we are monitoring the worst kind of breaking news, if you can monitor, an active shooter situation in aurora, illinois. nbc news' kevin tibbles is in or chicago newsroom with the latest.
also on the road today and for different reasons former vice president joe bide be. he is talking at a global security conference in germany but he is still taking questions about whether he will join that democratic field and run for president again. >> no, i haven't reached a decision. i'm in that process of doing that. and i will, in the near term, let everyone know what that decision is. >> one thing dominating the campaign conversations this weekend already, president trump. and his declaration of a national emergency to fund the construction of a southern border wall. now, many of the democratic hopefuls are sitting lawmakers who will be part of the congressional, or the legal challenges, to the president's plan. and where's president trump today? in florida. he and the first lady arrived in west palm beach last night, just hours after insisting that the nation is being actively and perilously invaded by drug, gangs, and human traffickers. he played a round of golf this morning. now beto o'rourke, testing the 2020 waters in chicago, the former texas congressman speaking at the hispanic scholarship leadership institute. leila santiago is in chicago. what did o'rourke have to say this afternoon? >> we are right now in the luncheon of the u.s. hispanic leadership conference, and beto o'rourke is off here in the distance, and not surprised taking selfies with some supporters, this is a group that is a young latino group, most people here from 18 to 35, so a lot of potential young voters here. this is also a place that is about an hour east of aurora, illinois, where we had that shooting yesterday. so i had a chance to talk to beto o'rourke, as he was coming in here, and i asked him, given how close we are to aurora, what his thoughts are, specifically about gun control. listen to what he had to say. >> first of all, just a real tragedy for the families, for the community, for the co-workers there. they're in my thoughts. in our prayers. and also, they're going to be in the actions that we take going forward to make sure that we do more to save more lives. and do everything we can to support those families who have lost so much. >> okay, so the big question, well, actually, a few big questions here, one, will be what is he going to talk about on stage? if it resembles anything like what he has talked about over the last few days, and who this audience is, likely going to talk about immigration. he will likely address dreamers here. and already, other speakers have talked about the power of the latino vote, julian castro was here yesterday as well, he talked about issues that are important to him as well. but that other big question that we're talking about, is he going to run for, a bid for the white house? and that's something in the last 24 hours he addressed yesterday, in wisconsin, and he says he is still thinking about it. of course, during the oprah interview, he also said that he gave himself a time line of having a decision by the end of the month. so we're still waiting and seeing, we're listening to what he is saying, but we all know that actions speak louder than words. and if you go by his actions, he is certainly acting like he's reaching out to young voters, trying to tap into that obama coalition, going to wisconsin, yesterday, and speaking to colleges there, and now, he is here, addressing the latino community in chicago. ana? >> and earlier this week taking on the president at the border with comfortable meeting events when the president was there rallying his supporters for the border wall. thank you for that reporting. now, i want to bring in cnn's suzanne malveaux in wisconsin, and the deadly shooting in nearby illinois yesterday, getting strong reaction from klobuchar on the campaign trail and the gunman shooting and killing five others before the gunman ended his life. what did klobuchar have to say? >> this is something that everybody is talking about. and of course, she offered her condolences about that incident and she brought up a very good story, an interesting story, this is eau claire, wisconsin, a bike and a coffee shop, people love her here in wisconsin, very much a state that democrats felt they missed out when trump won by 1% over hillary clinton, who did not spend any time here during the general election campaign. so very important that she was here today. but she weighed in and she said she had this meeting with the president, and with republicans. this was after the parkland shooting, and she had her own bill, legislation, addressing domestic violence, and this is the one you might recall, because it was before all of the cameras and the president was actually accusing fellow republicans of being afraid of being scared of the nra, and it sounded like he was very much in line with a lot of the democratic proposals when it comes to gun control and here is how senator klobuchar characterized this very unique meeting that she had. >> it is time to do something about, by the way, after the tragedy, and what we saw happen in aurora, illinois, yesterday, it is time to put sensible gun legislation in place. i actually sat across from the president at that meeting. right? because i have a bill, a bipartisan bill, involving domestic violence. i sat across from him. and i counted nine times, he said he was for universal background checks. >> well, ana, that did not happen and klobuchar said she was quite discouraged by that. she told the president, she said that 6,000 women over the course of 11 years are killed by their partner, by having been shot by their partner, and more than those who gave up their lives, soldiers in afghanistan and as well as iraq and the president seemed to have felt that story and was on board. of course, that did not happen afterwards. he did support something that was much more narrow and modest in its scope, when it comes to actually back ground checks, and school safety. and that is one of the issues that she's very strongly supporting, and fighting for here, to push that even harder, and it is something she feels, she says she is at least hopeful that she can arrive with some sort of compromise, with republicans on the other side, but as you know, ana, this is something that administration after administration really goes nowhere, or very little, not that far a-at all, and so she is trying to be pragmatic, she is trying to go ahead, and introduce herself and her brand, as someone who is working across the aisle, but this is one of those very difficult issues, that just might not gain traction. >> and something obviously that is a bit of a dance, where she's from and where she's talking to voit voters because of eau claire wisconsin, my mom grew up near there, it is a rural area of wisconsin, a lot of hunters, people who value their gun rights. so suzanne malveaux, we appreciate you bringing her story. let's go to south carolina and california senator kamala harris homefronting a town hall there today. let's listen in. >> we are looking at an administration that has a policy of taking babies from their fathers and mothers at the border, that is not about border security, that is a human rights violation. that does not represent justice in america. let's speak the truth. when we're looking at a system where one of the most imminent threats to us as human beings is climate change, yet there are those who are trying to get us to buy science fiction instead of science fact. let's talk about truth and justice in our country. and the way that we recognize, one of the most important, and fundamental truths, about who we are, as americans, and that truth is this. the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. >> kamala harris, speaking just moments ago, there in south carolina. so here we are, the 2020 democratic race for the white house, seemingly gets more crowded, and more diverse every single hour. but you might not know the name. the very first democrat to announce his 2020 bid for the presidency, john delaney, made his announcement back in july of 2017, you heard that right, about a year and a half ago, he is a former three-term maryland congressman and he joins us now. great to have you with us in person in the studio. >> great to be here. >> thank you so much. so four high parole 2020 democrat, high profile 2020 democrats had to vote on this spending bill, close to 48 hours ago, it ultimately passed even those these four voted against it. luckily we're not in a shutdown. luckily it passed. you can see them there, senator kirsten gillibrand, cory booker, elizabeth warren, kamala harris. you were a sitting member of congress until a few weeks ago. would you have voted for or against the spending bill. >> i would have likely vote the for it. i think people worked in a good-minded way to get it done and keep the government open and i think that's really important. i think we have to be getting things done and when we had a conference committee where democrats and republicans worked hard on a compromise to keep the government open and do something reasonably sensible around border security, you know, i think that makes good sense. >> when you talk about being reasonably sensible, i know you have advocated for protections for dreamers. >> absolutely. >> that did not include it. >> i was disappointed. >> did democrats miss an opportunity? that was on the negotiating table back in december during the shutdown. the president had included that in his proposal, a three-year extension. >> i think we missed an opportunity to do it. there is 1.8 million dreamers in our country. these are people who did nothing wrong and i think they go to bed every night worrying about whether they're going to get deported the next day. >> you still would have voted for, this even hoe it didn't include those protections. >> yes, right, because the alternative is closing the government down. i represent over 100,000 current and former federal workers, i was down with jose andres, with his food kitchen feeting these, feeds these people and i wouldn't want the government to shut down again and there was nothing terribly unreelk alisti this bill. >> democrats didn't get what they wanted, and the president didn't get all of the money he wanted for the border wall so he declared a national emergency to fund the border wall and we know democrats will plan to challenge. it here is nancy pelosi. >> if you want to talk about national emergency. let's talk about today, the one-year anniversary of another manifestation of the epidemic of gun violence in america. that's a national emergency. why don't you declare that emergency, mr. president? i wish you would. but a democratic president can do that. >> if you were president, would you declare a national emergency over gun violence, or what about climate change? >> listen, i think what the president just did, first of all, i think this is maybe the greatest offense he's done against our constitution, right? what he did, i mean the president has done a lot of things i disagree with but to declare a national emergency over something that is clearly under the discretion of congress, which is funding decisions, right after we had a debate about it, because that's what the congress did, the congress engaged in a debate over border security, and he is disregarding the congress, and in that regard, disregarding the constitution. so i just think what the president did is terrible. and i think -- >> what would you do if you were president? is there something right now, nancy pelosi brought up gun control, gun violence, and other people have thrown out climate change. are any of those national emergencies that would lead you to take this kind of action? >> i would want to do whatever i could under legitimate presidential executive authority to make a difference against climate change and to make a difference against the horrible gun violence issue we have in this country. >> let me ask you about climate change. because there were obvious proposals announced just in the last week or so, the green new deal, a lot of talk about that, alexandria ocasio-cortez, the freshman democrat, also in the senate, ed marky joining her in this proposal. do you agree with their plan? and just the climate proposals we've heard in general? >> i think their plan is a step back. so i think climate is a huge issue. it's been one of the singular issues i've focused on in the congress. and last congress, i introduced a bipartisan carbon tax bill, to prove that we can actually build the kind of coalition we need to get something big done on climate change. a carbon tax, my bill, has been mod theed to reduce carbon emissions by over 90% and it is bipartisan. all of the great things we've ever done in this country, if you look back across time is, when we come together with coalitions of people, to get something done. what i will do as president, in my first year in office, is get a large bipartisan carbon tax bill passed in the congress of the united states. and that will be a big step forward on climate. we are running out of time on climate. this is not like other issues. we can't wait to act on it. we have to get something done right away. the problem i have with the green new deal is it lays out unrealistic expectations, and it ties action on climate change to health care, things like universal-based income, rebuilding all of the structures in the united states of america over ten years, getting us to a place in ten years where there's zero carbon emissions, which all of the experts have said is impossible. >> it seems impractical. >> impractical is one word, and when john f. kennedy, when he said we should go to the moon, he didn't say saturn. he sat down with scientists, what is doable? that's how you rally the american people around something big. what is doable in this country is to get to zero carbon emission bis 2050. the way you get there, you get a carbon tax bill passed right away, like the proposal i put forward that has bipartisan support. >> there is pushback on the carbon tax. i don't want to get too hung up here. critics of the carbon tax idea will say it burdens industry and could hurt lower income households because of the costs being passed on to consumers. >> we solved that problem. what we do with our bill, and that's why it has so much support, we take 100% of the revenues gen rated by the carbon tax and put it in a lock box and dishy it back to the american people, every penny and we sfrur t structure the dividend to be progressive, and the bill was modelled to put more money in the pockets of hard working specifics. >> i appreciate you being specific about the proposal. >> it matters. >> it does matter. and that's what voters will have to decide on what they want. let me move on because we're talking about just how diverse the democratic field is becoming when you look at all of the women in the race, the variety of ethnicities in the democratic contenders as we put up the map there. as you know, the democratic voters in the base becoming more diverse. the country is becoming more diverse. >> absolutely. >> does being a white man put you at a disadvantage? >> i think what has happened to our democratic party in the country is we have become much more diverse, meaning we represent the american people, so i think if i would have run 30, 40 years ago, as president, being a white man would have been an advantage. the way i think of it now is we're all on a level playing field. and isn't the way it should be? >> yes. >> because that is really where we've come tomorrow. and i think that's great. our party represents the american people. and i don't have any advantage running for president as a white man, which i would have across history. right? so the way i look at it right now is i think the democratic party voters are going to elect the person who they think is the best leader. and they're not going to think about all of this other stuff. they're going to look at the person, figure out what is in their heart and what is in their head and who do they think can lead our country the best and that's how i think about it. >> john delaney, 2020 presidential candidate, former maryland congressman. thanks for coming in. nice to meet you in person. as we learn about what you want to know about 20920 candidate, tune in monday night, amy klobuchar will join new hampshire voters to take their questions and discuss what is at stake for the future. don lemon moderates a cnn presidential town hall monday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern on cnn. new details from aurora, illinois, after a gunman opened fire after he was let go from his job. >> violent unrest sweeping across haiti this week and sparking riots and leaving tourists and missionaries trapped. cnn will take you live to the capital. and tonight, after colin kaepernick's surprise settlement with the nfl, his lawyer speaks exclusively to us here at cnn. you're live in the cnn newsroom. man 1: this is my body of proof. woman 1: proof of less joint pain... woman 2: ...and clearer skin. woman 3: this is my body of proof. man 2: proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... woman 4: ...with humira. woman 5: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. avo: humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. woman 6: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 7: go to mypsaproof.com to see proof in action. woman 7: go to mypsaproof.com might mean a trip back to the doctor's office just for a shot. but why go back there when you can stay home with neulasta onpro? 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>> reporter: that's right, ana, we now have names to match the five victims, one other employee was also shot, but we know that two of those victims worked in human resources. one was the manager, and as you mentioned, another was the hr intern, and believe it or not, this person's name is trevor wehner, his first day on the job, at henry pratt. he was scheduled to graduate in may. three others were also killed. the mold operator, forklift operator, and the plant manager, as well. it's not clear whether these were random or targeted. but what we do know is that the suspect here, gary martin, 45-year-old man, he was called in, for a meeting, because he was fired that day. and police say that after he found out the news, he opened fire. the chief, the police chief here, suspects that he may have known, or he may have had an inkling that he was going to get fired because he brought with him several magazines worth of ammunition for his handgun, ana. >> about 90 minutes passed between when the first 911 calls came in and when the suspect was killed. do we have any more details about what unfolded during that time? >> yes, so this is a 29,000 square foot facility. it is absolutely massive. so you can imagine industrial shelving, you can imagine machinery, a lot of places to hide. so after police were hit with that initial wave of gunfire, five officers were actually hit, the suspect retreated into that building. and so there were s.w.a.t. teams going in. there were all kinds of teams going in to get victims and pull them out. and it took a long time for law enforcement to work their way through the building. in the end, they found the suspect in a machine shop in the back, where he appeared to be waiting for law enforcement, ana. >> this wasn't the gunman's first run-in with the law, right? he had a history of arrests. >> he had six arrests with the aurora police alone. he also had one felony dating back to the 1990s, in mississippi, and so the question is, how was this man allowed to have a gun? well, it turns out in 2014, he actually applied for a gun license, in the state of illinois, and he was granted it. it was only when he applied for a concealed carry permit that his fingerprints went through a national database and they found that felony conviction and revoked it. what happens next is a bit of a bureaucratic process that failed in this case. the state police sent him a letter, they've confirmed that they sent him a letter, saying your rights to own a weapon have been revoked. what is unclear at this point is whether that same letter or that same notice got to the local police, whose job it was to enforce that revocation of rights, and actually seize that weapon. if he didn't turn it over. because clearly, five years later, he still had that gun. and now, we have the situation that we're in right now. with some pretty serious consequences. >> a tragedy. scott mclean, from aurora, illinois, thank you. for the first time, prosecutors say they have the evidence of roger stone communicating directly with wikileaks. what this means for the russia investigation. you're live in the cnn newsroom. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ book now and enjoy free unlimited open bar, free airfare and more. norwegian cruise line. feel free. people are managing their type 2 diabetes with fitness, friends and farxiga, the pill that starts with f. farxiga, along with diet and exercise, helps lower a1c in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's one pill a day. and although it's not a weight loss drug, it may help you lose weight. do not take if allergic to farxiga. if you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. tell your doctor right away if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, serious urinary tract infections, low blood sugar and kidney problems. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have signs of ketoacidosis, which is serious and may lead to death. ask your doctor about the pill that starts with f and visit farxiga.com for savings. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. billions of problems. morning breath? 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>> well it is very important in the sense that this gets at the heart of what robert mueller is looking at, his mandate, and to determine whether there was coordination between the trump campaign and russia. and going back to 2016, this was the major focus, the intrusion in the democratic national committee and weaponizing these e-mails in order to hurt hillary clinton and hurt donald trump. the question here is whether roger stone in coordination in talking with wikileaks, whether he knew in fact that he was talking to russians and that that was part of the effort. that's not included in the latest filings. but that remains to be seen. we will have to wait and see what robert mueller has next. >> shan, stone has admitted to brief exchanges, text messages with wikileaks, and a lacquer known as gucifer 2.0, twitter, and he had no knowledge of hacked e-mails. how solid is the defense? >> it is solid enough, because they don't have anything to contradict yet, and as they go through the treasure trove of evidence that they found during his arrest, i think we see now that the real target of that sort of surprise raid, so to speak, was to take him by surprise to make sure they could preserve evidence, and that revealed a treasure trove of electronic documents and that's what they will peruse now and there may be evidence there that may contradict stone's bravado posturing at the moments. this tidbit came out i think in the related case filing, and they're really talking about what evidence could be common between some of these cases. but of course, from a ma co lev level, macro level, what is common between the cases is profoundly significant. >> shan, if they have direct communications between wikileaks and roger stone, and roger stone was, you know, working with part to help the trump campaign, we know wikileaks was working with russia, and disseminating these hacked e-mails, is that a smoking gun, as it pertains to collusion? >> it is closing in on a smoking gun. but the real smoking gun, we need to know exactly what we mean by the communications. i mean if they're one-sided, he is just asking them for this, that may not mean too much. he may have some intent to help the campaign. what we need to see is what kind of back and forth communication there was. and then of course most importantly, what is the link to the campaign. what was he telling them about what he actually learned from them about the timing. that's really critical. >> josh, the judge in stone's case has now initiated a gag order. his attorneys can't talk at all. but stone, only has to keep his mouth shut in and around the courthouse. are you surprised by these rules? >> i'm not surprised because these are the same restrictions that were put in place, if you think about paul manafort, and rick gates, and it really comes down to protecting the integrity of a future trial, and we know that roger stone is very colorful. this isn't to say that he enjoys this, obviously, you know, that i can think of no greater punishment from roger stone than getting between him and a camera but i think it is something he will adhere to if he knows what is best for him and again, it goes back to protecting the trial, protecting integrity and not having undue outside influence but it doesn't necessarily mean he will like it but this is something blazed on previous witnesses and not as though the government is unfairly punishing him. >> shan, we just learned that the president's press secretary sarah sanders was interviewed by the special counsel last year. how important could she be to mueller's investigation? and what do you think they may have asked her? >> i think she could be very important. the spokesperson, obviously, needs to hear a lot of the inside information in order to figure out what the message is, and there is no pr privilege that can protect that. so they want to know what did she actually hear about the spin, the messaging development, based on the actual facts. let's say trump power meeting as one famous example. and so that could be very valuable. i doubt that she's any kind of a target or in trouble herself. but she could be a very valuable witness on that point. and if i could just for a moment to follow up on what josh said about the gag order, having represented rick gates at the time of our gag order, i remember that we actually placed a lot of emphasis, and this is public, nothing confidential, the judge, we placed a lot of emphasis on her point that whatever the statements are, they can't substantially prejudice the case. so it is interesting that in some ways, it looks like she has thought more carefully since then, only stopping him from talking on the steps of the courthouse. but that language is still there. so if i were roger, if i were roger's lawyer, i would be counseling him to be careful on the talk show circuit. >> i also wonder, josh, because she wasn't part of the campaign as far as my recollection, so would her part of the mueller investigation pertain to obstruction of justice? >> well, possibly. and i think that she was involved at that time. and then if you look at the full spectrum, talking about sarah sanders, of her role in the trump world, not only then when he was running for office but then afterwards, a large part of this investigation, at least according to the reporting, what we suspect is the obstruction piece. so whenever the president fired fbi director james comey, my former boss, there was a request whether he was trying to influence the russia investigation at that point, sarah sanders was in a place to possibly know what the discussions would have been, and as shan mentioned, a spokesperson is so valuable to investigators because they're the people who kind of hear, what's the center of gravity, what do we know and what is the next step is what do we say about it, annual the first step, what they know, that helps get to their state of mind. >> josh campbell and shan wu, thank you for being here. >> thank you. a stunning dismissal, straight from the vatican. a once powerful u.s. cardinal defrocked after being found guilty of severally abusing minors. you're live in the cnn newsroom. don't go anywhere. it's abs e confidence in 30,000 precision parts. or it isn't. it's inspected by mercedes-benz factory-trained technicians. or it isn't. it's backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isn't. for those who never settle, it's either mercedes-benz certified pre-owned, or it isn't. the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event. now through february 28th. only at your authorized mercedes-benz dealer. when i went on to ancestry, i just put in the name yes, we are twins. of my parents and my grandparents. i was getting all these leaves and i was going back generation after generation. you start to see documents and you see signatures of people that you've never met. i mean, you don't know these people, but you feel like you do. you get connected to them. i wish that i could get into a time machine and go back 100 years, 200 years and just meet these people. being on ancestry just made me feel like i belonged somewhere. discover your story. start searching for free now at ancestry.com. on car insurance? did the little piggy cry wee wee wee all the way home? weeeeeeeee! we we weeeee! weeeeeeee! weeeeeeee! weeeeeeee! max. maxwell! yeah? you're home. oh, cool. thanks mrs. a. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. the president got a number of facts wrong, as he defended an emergency declaration for his border wall. including walls working 100% of the time. his own customs and border protection tweeted this video just last month of a wall's obvious weakness. it shows undocumented immigrants using a ladder to get right on over it. and then just today, another example. u.s. customs and border protection announcing the largest cocaine bust in a quarter century. law enforcement officers discovered more than 200 pounds of cocaine, they say, hidden under the floor boards of a cargo vessel, arriving from ecuador to a port in los angeles. a wall would not have stopped that cocaine from getting into the country. here's cnn's tom foreman now with a fact check on the president's wall speech. >> reporter: one of the president's chief claims to his fans, it always gets a lot of applause, is the idea that the wall has already been started. >> we're right now in construction with wall in some of the most important areas. and we have renovated a tremendous amount of wall. making it just as good as new. that's where a lot of the money has been spent on renovation. >> the second part of that statement is true, there has been renovation just as there has been under every president, and that's all there has been. there has been no new wall construction. this is a fact. there may be some started next month on a very tiny part of it, but for him to make that claim, with the other one there, makes the statement at very best misleading. another big claim. el paso had a giant crime problem. they built a wall. and the crime was solved. >> when the wall went up, was it better? you were there. some of you. it was not only better, it was like 100% better. >> go to el paso. they do have a huge wall, a huge barrier down there, and yes, they had a huge spike in violent crime, it went way up and it came way down. the problem is, the wall was built down in this area, and crime actually went up after it. all of that had nothing to do with the wall. it happened before the wall. that claim by the president is simply false. and one more he really likes to make is how much drug traffic is coming in over that open land out there where will is no big, where there is no big barriers. >> a majority of the big drug loads don't go through ports of entry, they can't go through ports of entry, you can't take big loads because we have people, very capable people, the border patrol working. >> and we don't know what they mean by big. big dollars? most of the drugs come through the official parts of entry. look at heroin. the majority of the flow is legal points of entry followed by tractor-trailers. you need proof? here, look at pictures the dea puts out showing some of the loads coming in here. the only type of drug that is coming in illegally, that is more likely, according to the d.e.a., to come over open land, where maybe a wall would slow them down, or stop them, is marijuana. so again, this claim by the president is false. >> tom forman, thank you. back in just a moment. stay with us. adise mascara from l'oréal paris. voluptuous volume. intense length. feathery-soft lashes. this is what paradise looks like. lash paradise mascara from l'oréal paris. take your lashes to paradise. -jamie, this is your house? -i know, it's not much, but it's home. right, kids? -kids? -papa, papa! -[ laughs ] -you didn't tell me your friends were coming. -oh, yeah. -this one is tiny like a child. -yeah, she is. oh, but seriously, it's good to be surrounded by what matters most -- a home and auto bundle from progressive. -oh, sweetie, please, play for us. -oh, no, i couldn't. -please. -okay. [ singing in spanish ] right now, the u.s. government is warning americans not to travel to haiti as crime and protest continue to grip the nation. protesters are calling for the president to resign. the civil unrest has reportedly claimed multiple lives. the u.s. is deploying additional marine marines to port-au-prince to try to wrap things up there. cnn spoke with a nurse earlier today. >> the pastor, the director of the compound instructed us not to go outside. we're here. we can get people to come in and can still provide health care for them. and feeding programs. . they will not let us go inside the compound. >> miguel marquez is in port-au-prince. haiti's president is rejecting the calls for him to resign. what is he saying, and tell us a little more about the desperation and the danger people are experiencing. >> he is saying that he's going to offer a plan that will address some of the concerns people have. tonight the prime minister is meant to speak to the country to fill in some of the blanks that the president talked about the other day. will it satisfy? probably not. they've gone through. this is the 10th day of this uprising, this protest in some cases violent protests across haiti. there were nine days of it that were quite difficult for the government to contain and deal with. today things have calmed down, people say if he doesn't resign, if there is not some sort of dramatic bold action by this government to address the concerns of corruption. billions of dollars, they're talking about, that seem to disappear from the coffers, the president then declaring an economic emergency. all of that kicking off this round of protests in anger. and right now, what people are desperate for are the base irks of life. food, water, and gasoline. they are all in extraordinarily short supply across port-au-prince and across haiti today. people lining the streets, lining up for water. dozens, hundreds of people in some cases trying to get to a spigot or a hose being put over a fence so they can fill a 5 gallon bucket so they can eat or drink for a day or two. food also in short supply. gas is almost nonexistent here. any station that has it is quickly overrun with cars and motorcycles of people trying to fill up. it is a very, very tense situation. the nation will be watching to see what the prime minister says. but there is great distrust of this government right now. and people we've spoken to here aren't sure where this is going. they think that if the president doesn't resign and if they don't start the process of not only investigating this government, but starting over, not just new elections, but starting over from the constitutional level of haiti, it's going to be a difficult time for many, many days or months to come. anna. >> miguel marquez thank you for bringing us a stark reality there from port-au-prince haiti. a once powerful u.s. cardinal, the latest to fall from grace over the sex abuse scandal. theodore mccar rick. he becomes the highest ranking member of the priesthood expelled after a time found him guilty. >> he is the one who has saved us. >> he was once a prince of the church and a friend of presidents. cardinal theodore mccarrick enjoyed a spectacular career at the heart of washington and rome. when they were summoned to the vatican in 2002 at the beginning of the sex abuse scandal, cardinal mccarrick was the reassuring face of that scandal. >> i can't see how anyone in the united states today would cover up something like that. >> theodore mccarrick was created a cardinal in 2001 by john paul ii. an american priest wrote to the vatican to warn them of accusations that the cardinal was sexually abusing semin arianes. mccarrick was quietly advised not to travel or be seen in public. and lead a secret life in prayer and penance. a recommendation which the cardinal seemed to ignore. as he continued traveling and appearing in public, even at the 2013 conclave that elected pope francis. then in june last year, accusations that mccarrick had abused a minor were found credible by an internal church investigation in new york. he resigned add cardinal. something that has rarely happened in the history of the catholic church. finally, he was brought to trial at the vatican. though by now, 88 years old and infirm he did not attend in person. delia gallagher, cnn, rome. another brick and mortar bites the dust. the u.s. shoe store set to close every single store next. every day, people are fighting type 2 diabetes with food, family and farxiga, the pill that starts with f. farxiga, along with diet and exercise, helps lower a1c in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's one pill a day. and although it's not a weight loss drug, it may help you lose weight. do not take if allergic to farxiga. if you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, 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pulling the plug on its on line store. company wide liquidation sales start tomorrow. payless merely the latest casualty joining toys "r" us and brook sto brookstone. you're live in the cnn newsroom, i'm ana cabrera in new york. i want to give you a live look here at washington, d.c., capitol city, according to the president is under threat right now by criminal forces crawling their way across the southern border. it warrants the declaration of a national emergency. not surprisingly, president trump and his declaration of a national emergency to fund the construction of a southern border wall is dominating the campaign conversations this weekend, many of the democratic hopefuls are sitting lawmakers. we'll be part of the
of california are vowing to take him to court. what did she know? why sarah sanders had to answer questions from the special counsel. >> the deputy attorney general was concerned about the president, about his capacity and about his intent at that point in time. >> wait. there's more. new parts of the interview with the former acting deputy of the fbi. he talks about the former explosive interview with the 25th amendment. and alexandria ocasio-cortez declares victory over amazon. some of her democrats colleagues are her strongest critics. i'll talk with one of them about the now defunct deal. developing this hour. another shutdown averted, but now a constitutional clash is brewing. mounting legal challenges are expected after the president declared a national emergency to bypass congress and build his border wall. the president now in mar-a-lago. hours after his announcement, the first lawsuit against his declaration was filed. the american civil liberties union will sue in the next few days. california's governor is telling the trump administration we'll see you in court. >> california is prepared to call this what this is. a theater of the absurd. california prepared to remind the american people this is a manufactured crisis. >> the president himself anticipated the legal challenges. >> we will have a national emergency and we will then be sued and we will possibly get a bad ruling and we'll get another bad ruling and we'll end up in the supreme court. and hopefully we'll get a fair shake and we'll win in the supreme court. just like the ban. >> house speaker nancy pelosi and chuck schumer calling this a power grab. and representative alexandria ocasio-cortez will introduce a resolution to condemn the national emergency. that will trigger the senate vote to force a position. the house judiciary chief is asking for those involved in the declaration to testify in the hearing, quote, in the coming days. >> who advised them? what is the advice? do they consider certain things? i don't expect to get answers. the white house is very arrogant. we will pass a disapproval in the house. i anticipate a majority of vote in both houses. >> now in a tough position, republicans facing re-election. these senate republicans warned the president against declaring an emergency. plus, conservative ann coulter wrote a book "in trump we trust" now has this assessment of the president. >> so forget the fact that he is digging his own grave. this is just -- look, the only national emergency is our president is an idiot. >> we have michael viqueira joining us from the white house. i saw that look on your face as we listen to ann's claim. okay. clearly, mike, this is far from over. >> reporter: right. alex, let's start with the congressional end. you saw the resolutions that are planned to be introduced by alexandria ocasio-cortez and congress member castro and a host of others. there will be others who want to get on this train. the question is if they pass the house of representatives and the senate, the former is a probability. the latter is notwithstanding all of the statements from republican senators. always an iffy proposition when the senate leader mitch mcconnell is four square behind the president. he has a lot of leeway of what gets on the floor and what doesn't get on the floor. that is an iffy proposition. let's say it passes the house and senate, the dissolution and forcing him to backtrack on the national emergency. the president, given everything we have seen and heard in the last 24 hours will veto it and there is not a margin sufficient to override the veto. it is important that congress puts its foot down and kpexecut the power of the purse. the president called an emergency and then said he department have to do it. a lot of people are seizing on that. he had blame to go around. check out this exchange with our own kelly o in the rose garden yesterday. >> i will tell you, i'm very disappointed at certain people. particularly one for not having pushed this faster. >> are you referring to speaker ryan? >> let's not talk about it. >> okay. >> what difference does it make. they should have pushed it faster and harder. they didn't. >> reporter: so the president already the white house releasing a photo from the oval office yesterday. meeting with the commanding general of the army corps of g nee engineers. planning the wall. there are people along the border trying to fight this as well. the claims of eminent domain coming from the government. another question. how much is the president going to tap? $8 billion. he has access to in military construction funds and drug intervention funds and asset forfeit funds over the years. a lot of questions still up in the air. meanwhile, during the emergency, the president last night landed 7:20 eastern time at his resort in mar-a-lago, florida. >> where he stays this holiday weekend. michael viqueira, thank you. joining me now is laura barron lopez. good to see you on saturday morning. look, kevin, the president realizes from are a lot of legal challenges ahead of t. you heard him in the sing-song tone attacking them. politically speaking, is it worth it for him if he loses in court? >> he thinks it is. i was sitting next to kelly in the rose garden. he was essentially saying bring it on. he is fully prepared to take this to the supreme court. you know, he feels that he mentioned in his exchange with kelly that he has, you know, he is getting advice from the likes of sean hannity and others on the issue of immigration. you know, i think democrats are also fully prepared. i would make one point. this was their plan all along. even before the state of the union address. i remember before the state of the union saying to you that senior administration officials truly wanted a two-fer all along. they wanted money from congress and pursue a legal route when they wanted. >> listen, to your point, even further "the washington post" reports in 2018 -- a year ago the president was trying to find a way to fund the wall without congress. he knew congress would not give him the billions he wanted. according to the paper, the white house could not move the necessary billions it will and trump declares a national emergency. the risk of available you afails high. laura, the president did it anyway. is this nothing but a political move? >> it has to do with the re-election in 2020. this was his number one campaign promise during the 2016 election. we knew he was not going to let up. it is something he continually hears about from his base as well as the commentators he tunes in to. he has been pushing it relentlessly. of course with the victory of democrats in the house in 2018, it became a more unlikely scenario that this was going to be able to move through congress. again, if he wanted it, this is an argument democrats made time and time again, why didn't house republicans and senate republicans when they controlled all of government push this through? democrats, you know, have not changed position. they have said from the beginning, they would not give any money for the wall. >> right. what you cite senate republicans, i want to know, kevin, what is up with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell? he spent weeks warning against the national emergency. telling the president we don't want you to go down this road. now he issued this statement. he is declaring support and pointing blame at democrats. what happened? >> this is fascinating. mitch mcconnell supporting president trump, he is someone who is truly perhaps the best chess player in washington, d.c. he knows that from -- forget about the policy for a second. from the political standpoint, he know there is as there are r up for re-election in 2020 who do not want to have to vote on whether or not they agree with the constitutionality of president trump's decision to declare a national emergency. >> kevin, was it also the timing? it came on the heels of the government shutdown? >> yes. >> it was a disaster for republicans. the president said i own this thing. everyone said great. this is your fault. >> absolutely. play this forward. let's say out of the house of representatives, they were to advance a joint resolution from aoc. that ends up on the senate. republicans have to have an up or down vote on whether or not they support the declaration of the national emergency. that is why you have seen republicans like marco rubio and senator lindsey graham make comments to laura and i in the hallway that they are skeptical because of the constitutionality of the issue. >> switching gears now, guys. i want to play part of what andrew andrew mccabe said in the int interview that airs tomorrow night. here it is. >> the discussion of the 25th amendment was simply rod raised the issue and discussed it with me in the context of thinking about how many other cabinet officials might support such an effort. >> rosenstein was actually openly talking about whether there was a majority of the cabinet to vote to remove the president? >> that's correct. counting votes or possible votes. >> so cbs released this clip after mccabe spokesperson, melissa schwartz, said his words were taken out of context. why, laura, do you think mccabe is going on the record with this interview? we know he has a book. is this about that or is there something more to it? >> i think it is remarkable we have andrew mccabe confirming a report that came out last year in which we found out that rosenstein had at least in passing mentioned the 25th amendment and the possibility that amendment gives to remove the president of the united states. and we know that mccabe is on this book tour and he is revealing different pieces and confirming things that we had maybe heard about earlier. so it is remarkable we have someone who is confirming what we heard about last year. whether or not there were series of korvconversations. mccabe said it was one conversation. not a sericertif serious effort. >> how does this move into the deep state plot to take down the president? >> i think you are seeing that via social media commentary from conservatives. hold up. time-out. the fact that the 25th amendment was whipped inside the administration by rod rosenstein and andrew mccabe is -- that is -- i have no words. that's unprecedented. >> i recall the interview i had with omarosa. >> i remember that. >> she talked about how they used to text among themselves when the president was going off kilter. tmi. press secretary sarah sanders confirms she spoken with special counsel robert mueller. what does he want from her? and adding to the toll of american tragedies. more than three dozen mass shootings so far this year. ootit r essential for pine trees, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. don't start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. your doctor should perform blood tests before and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. needles. fine for some things. but for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. an "unjection™". what is that? uh mine, why? it's just that it's... lavender. yes it is, it's for men but i like the smell of it laughs ♪ does your customers connecting to the wifi ever slow down your business? yes, it does slow things down. aggravating. it's a nightmare. so our gig-speed network is fast. and we go beyond fast by making it easy to create separate networks for your business and your customers and even control how much bandwidth each of those gets. so your business won't miss a beat. this is a big game changer. this is the new wave, and whoever doesn't get on, i think they would be left behind. just one more way we go beyond at&t. right now get fast, reliable internet and add wifi pro for a low price. comcast business. beyond fast. new details on the deadly mass workplace shooting in illinois. five people are dead and six injured. that includes five police officers that went down friday afternoon. nbc's ron mott is on the developing story. ron, what do we know where things stand now? >> reporter: alex, good morning. investigators are trying to figure out how much planning went into the shooting. they say this employee showed up at work with a gun on a day he was being fired. then kept the warehouse under siege for more than an hour and a half. by the time it was over, lives, of course, were shattered and another american community dealing with bloodshed and tears. >> all police. >> reporter: the community this morning stunned. >> as many ambulances as possible for active shooter. >> reporter: police say a 15-year employee. gary martin, in the process of being terminated, opened fire at the henry pratt company plant in aurora. killing five coworkers and shooting another and wounding five officers responding to the scene. all officers suffered non-life threatening injuries. >> i saw hundreds of officers ready to assist. this response by law enforcement by state and local agencies did not surprise me. it still overwhelms me. we still lost lives today. it is not overstated the people did not deserve this. >> reporter: the chief said the first officers arriving were immediately fired upon. authorities say police shot and killed martin. his home surrounded by law enforcement late into the evening. the workplace mass shooting prompted a flurry of lockdowns at neighbors businesses and schools. one student stayed home sick, but too close for comfort. >> i was in my room and heard gunshots. i got on the floor and peeked through the window. a cop car pulled up. >> traumatizing. >> you rushed toward danger. >> reporter: the illinois governor offered condolences to affected families and praised first responders. >> there is no word for evil that robs our neighbors of our hopes and dreams. >> reporter: as the investigation unfolds, now asking a familiar question around america. why us? and investigators want to find out how much planning this particular shooting may have put into the workplace shooting yesterday. one of the immediate questions, al e alex, is how could so many officers be struck by gunfire? the chief said the shooter gary martin was waiting for first responders. he started shooting from a window. the first officers were through the door and three struck by gunfi gunfire. for an hour and 35 minutes, the building was under steiege. the shooter barricading himself and engaged him and killed him. what another tragic scene in the american town with another mass shooting. alex. >> thank you, ron mott, from aurora, illinois. "newsweek" marks a year since the valentine's day shooting at stoneman high school. we take a look at the past 20 years of shootings. joining me now is "newsweek's" chief washington correspondent. bill, can you put in context with me over the shooting with ron mott? put that in contacts wiext of t 20 years of mass shootings? >> it is another example of what is unfortunately reality in the country. one, i think, as our piece this week points out, has begun to change the politics of gun rights and gun safety as it were. unfortunately, every time one of the episodes happens, you are almost at a loss for words as to how to react to it. i do think that in reporting the story that we did, there is a real sense and it was evidenced in the elections last november that the country is very tired of it or significant portion of the country is very tired of these things. therefore, the politics of it have gun to change. >> finally. 20 years of this. extraordinary. i know that the magazine and your article takes a look at parkland and how that tragedy is really what sparked this movement as you say how it is changing now. is the urgency still there? that we all felt in the immediate days after that shooting in shoo shooti shooting? do you think that will change laws? >> i think it can and it may. not necessarily immediately. i think one of the things that was striking about the aftermath of parkland and it continues to this day was the outpouring of outrage and political energy among the young. among high school and college kids. frankly. that was part of the reason why any number of candidates who ran explicitly on gun violence prevention last november did very well. >> remember sandy hook? that was the one back in 2012 that just shattered hearts across the country. and bithe bill working through congress and only to fail. >> nothing. absolutely. i think let's remember we do have a republican senate. the vast majority of republicans remain skeptical about a lot of the gun safety legislation or ideas that have been put forth. there is, for example, the one bill that has already been introduced about more extensive background checks does have some bipartisan support. it's plausible to me that could get through as a first step. there's no question that the people, particularly among those who are elected, as freshmen in november, they understand this is a long game. they understand that the republicans still do control the senate. so, you are right to suggest there is not going to be any magic bullet -- sorry, a bad phrase. >> i get it. how about we try to pass something and then see if that works? you know? there's an idea. >> that could happen. >> let's hope. bill powell, thank you for weighing in on this. only now are we learning that robert mueller has interviewed sarah huckabee sanders. in honor of black history month, nbc unveils the series she thrives. baltimore school teacher valenci ar valencia d. clay is being honored. you can read more about valencia and other women by going to nbcnews.com/shethrives. ethriveso l ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ready to treat differently with a pill? otezla. show more of you. now to the breaking news on u.s. efforts to pressure iran. vice president mike pence about an hour ago to call on european allies to walk away from the iran nuclear deal. >> the time has come to stand with us. our allies and friends in the region. the time has come to withdraw from the iran nuclear deal sgrchdeal. >> joining me is courtney from muni munich. why aren't european allies getting on the iran nuclear deal? >> reporter: alex, he doubled down on the european nations calling them to leave the jcpoa. we had an interview, richard g engel did yesterday. he asked specifically. is iran interested in potentially negotiating a new deal with the united states? he said absolutely not. there is a 150-page deal they agreed to. u.s. pulled out. iran is on board. that is the critical issue. what happens if the europeans and iran all leave the jcpoa? will iran start begin the enr h enrichment program? that is the biggest concern here, alex. >> it is not going to get resolved anytime soon. i want to ask about the statements the president made yesterday. first about president obama's posture toward north korea in 2016. >> i believe he would have gone to war with north korea. he told me he was close to starting a big war with north korea. >> we have ben rhodes who pushed back on twitter. how credible is trump's claim considering that obama never followed through on his red-line with syria? >> reporter: president trump was right. the tension was at an all-time high. not during obama's time. tensions were high in 2017 when ba obama took office. we saw the first missile test in february of 2017. then it moved through the summer with the icbm launch and the large nuclear test in september of 2017. trump is correct the tension was higher under president obama than right now. the difference is they escalated the most under president trump. that came, of course, at a time when president trump calling kim jong-un rocket man. the tensions are down. north korea has not decreased its overall ballistic missile program. they are continuing to test. they are not launching missiles. >> okay. courtney kube, thank you. let's go to the president's emergency declaration. he is expecting court challenges. nancy pelosi and several civil rights groups are signaling their intent to file lawsuits. let's bring in pete williams. pete, what does the law say about the president's power here? >> this is a 40-year-old law. it gives the president wide latitude to declare a national emergency. even for something that is not a crisis. opponents say there is no actual emergency on the border and they point to something the president himself said friday in answer to a question from peter alexander. >> i want to do it faster. i could do the wall over a longer period of time. i departmeidn't need to did thi. i would rather do it much faster. >> reporter: lawsuits will cite that comment as proof there is no crisis. just like the travel ban and his statements over the campaign and what he wanted was a muslim ban. this fight will be over what he wants to do with the emergency authority. >> okay. so, there's got to be legal challenges to all that. what will come first? >> reporter: we know one coming next week. one was filed in district court in washington last night. bipartisan group. one argument is this is unconstitutional. the president is spending money the congress did not approve and congress opposes. that was under cut when the president got more than $1 billion to start working on the wall. the aclu is arguing the president is acting against the wall. he wants to use pentagon money for this use. the president says this is a matter of national security and the courts defer to the white house on these things. however this plays out, the legal fight will last a year or likely end with the supreme court with the decision probably in the middle of the 2020 campaign. alex. >> pete williams. thank you so much. a new twist on the mueller investigation this morning as white house press secretary sarah sanders reveals she was interviewed by the special counsel. joining me now is legal contributor katy fang. what could the special counsel want to talk to sarah sanders about? >> reporter: how about everything she heard and seen and what they talked about. mueller wants to know are the public representations made by the white house through trump or rudy giuliani or press secretary sarah sanders? are the statements made from the white house, are they obstruction of justice statements? statements made to throw people like mueller off the trail or off the scent of collusion, spea conspiracy theory. it was last last year that john kelly was interviewed and they threw up objections to the fact the continue iinterview happene. we tonigdon't know what they ta about. >> i'll tell you what sanders said about the june trump tower meeting. here it is. >> the statement that don junior issued is true. there's no inaccuracy in the statement. he certainly didn't dictate. >> the outside counsel did weigh in. the president diresident dictat statement. >> do you want to correct your statement? >> once again, i'll not go into detail. >> kind of busted there. what information are prosecutors looking for from her? >> reporter: classic impeachment example. you said something different or somebody said something different. we do that all the time in court. the special prosecutor wants to see the famous june 2016 trump tower meeting. the russians had dirt on hillary clinton. then we heard donald trump with his son and hope hicks and maybe sarah sanders was crafting a lie. what mueller is trying to see is let me clean everything up. let me see what somebody said one time and what happened later on. what do we know about lies? we had several people who had to plead guilty for lying to federal prosecutors. >> katie phang, thank you. alexandria ocasio-cortez under fire and the amazon project was killed in new york. was it corporate welfare? i'll speak to the democratic congress member for her reaction next. ember for he r reaction next i just got my cashback match, is this for real? yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? 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(vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker, and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. i think it's incredible. it shows that every day americans still have the power to organize and fight for their communities and they can have more say in the country than just the world. >> freshman congress member alexandria ocasio-cortez reacting to the amazon decision to drop the plans for the headquarters in new york city. joining me here is carolyn maloney. the new york democrat who represents the district where amazon planned to bring 25,000 jobs. welcome to you, ma'am. what are your thoughts on all this? do you share your fellow democrats views who sees this as a victory as reflected by aoc there? >> i saw this as a tremendous opportunity for new york. you have to remember, alex, the governor and mayor beat out 220 other cities and sites that wanted it. many of which offering more in tax refunds than new york. if amazon had come to new york, we would have been the high tech capital of the east coast. as a former city council member and member of congress, i worked for decades with leaders in new york and leaders of various mayors to diversify our economy. we are far too depend daant on financial services. this was an opportunity to solidify the tax base of our city and certainly attract more jobs. now, you can be more a project and still work to improve it. we were literally in meetings. i'm going to one later on today with public housing leadership and members who wanted entry level jobs. you have to have a high, high education to be a high tech person paid at $150,000 a year. that's 25,000 jobs. unheard of. i talked yesterday to a business analyst. he said throughout the city everyone was raising their benefits and their salaries to match amazon. in other words, they were afraid of losing their personnel to them. >> your self description is a progressive, but pragmatic. are you sensing what happened here is a reflection of progressive ideology, but lack of pragmatism? >> maybe a breakdown of communication. there were many benefits. everything that we asked of amazon, they were willing to talk to you about it. they said they wanted the $3 billion to go to school. they were building the school in long island city and provide high tech education in 30 other schools throughout the whole city. as a former teacher, i found that incredibly exciting. that would strengthen our educational system. i'm still trying. i was calling all my friends part of the opposition. they weren't calling me back. we need to see if there is any way to resurrect it. it is a wonderful opportunity. any objection can be worked out. they were going to work with us on the resiliency plans. they are building in a flood zone. all of new york city is a flood zone. we are struggling with how to figure out how to respond to that. and long island city, we don't have a firehouse. we don't have a truck with a hose in this expanding area. we were pushing for a firehouse. we were pushing for transit improvements which would have come. the mayor promised roughly $200 million for infrastructure improvements which we desperately need. >> you are giving me a litany of things that were potential beneficiaries of the amazon deal. are you angry this appears to not be going forward? i respect the fact you are trying to resurrect it. if people are not calling you back, what is the likelihood? >> i keep trying. most of my landmark bills are from working on something. i heard people say we have to find another high tech company. we have trained personnel. a great city. we have a lot of assets. hopefully other high tech companies will come in. if we had that anchor, that would have all come in. it would have been the center. the silicon valley of the east coast. the most important thing, it was jobs. permanent jobs. i work on transit infrastructure. it creates good jobs. many are temporary. >> many would have if amazon located. >> these were permanent jobs and 25,000 was the starting point. they were projecting 40,000 originally of high paying jobs. many entry level jobs that people want and need are qualified for. their children would be trained in the schools for the high tech jobs. it was a wonderful opportunity, i thought. it would have permanently diversified our economy which we desperately need. >> there is clear disappointment in your voice. carolyn, thank you for joining me. >> i want to add you can disagree on one project and agree on another. i worked with alexandra with the green new deal. she has been working with me on the proper funding and support for the accurate census which is important to new york to get fair funding for our projects and people and accurate representation. every day is another opportunity to work together. >> strength in numbers. thank you so much. >> exactly. >> good to see you. >> good to see you again. >> lovely in blue. ann coulter turning against the president over the national emergency declaration. so will more conservative voices follow suit? uit? 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alarm smg what's your take on the fact that the conversation took place. >> i think more has been made of it than needs to be because it is so incredibly inflammatory and controversial. the 25th amendment was passed after the assassination of john f. kennedy and it was concerned with insuring there was a clear pathway to the transfer of power to a vice president in the event that a president is incapacitated. there are, there's language in it that also implies that the president could be removed by members of his cabinet in the executive branch. the idea that this is even plausible is so far-fetched, particularly in this administration, he has a highly loyal cabinet. it does seem like pretty fodder for shows like this and many others. i think somewhat taken out of context, there's no way that anyone in this administration, in this executive branch is invoking the 25th amendment under any circumstances. >> what's your thought on this, joe? >> i think laura is spot-on here. i think clearly this makes interesting reading. and obviously enhances, the news cycle. but at the end of the day, i don't see the appetite in the president's cabinet for this. among any of the folks that would be in line to make that decision. i don't see any appetite among them. i stand with lauren on this one. i think no appetite at all for it. >> ann coulter, lauren, she wanted the president to veto the funding bill of certain immigration provisions. she's tweeted the goal of a national emergency is for trump to scam the stupidest people in his base for two more years. a, do you see any truth to that, lauren? and b, will trump's base stick with him or turn against him potentially like ann koult centre. >> ann coulter profits from making inflammatory staxts that boost her twitter feed and get her on shows like this one. so mission accomplished, ann coulter. i don't know how much she represents or understands the views of the voters in this country. there's no question that the president will repeatedly make statements about acts that he may or may not even do. because he counts on people in his base, thinking that he's done them or being poorly informed on some issues. the wall is one of them. he put up a sign in his rally this week saying finish the wall. well the wall isn't even started. i think she's right in the sense that he tries to traffic in limited understanding of detail. the rest of it ann coulter will say anything to get in the news. >> lauren your comment about the cabinet standing by, by your description right there, is that the kind of thing that the cabinet should be doing, standing by no matter what? >> look, i think that we, i think that we often underestimate that there are people who really do share the president's views. if you choose to be in the cabinet with the president, given all the controversies that the president has been embroiled in. these are people who support him and believe in his mission and are not going anywhere. >> joe, quick thought on this with ann coulter and her reaction? >> ann coulter is trying to stir up, make money. so she, she's doing exactly what lauren said. she's trying to keep it live. so -- >> you guys may describe it that way. but it certainly appears that the president listens to her and reads her. and has been influenced by her over the years. i'm out of time. coming up a republican daring to dream about becoming president. what chance does he have of beating this president? about 50% of people with evesevere asthma k? have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? 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