russia built a lot of it. if you go back to syria, they deliberately target hospitals there. when you see attacks on hospitals, that s not collateral damage. this is deliberate. a particular threat has been to the nuclear power plant at zaporizhzhia for some time. that s been deliberate as well. those attacks out there, is the plant still at risk of a nuclear accident and is that the russian plan torques have this effect over the ukrainian people? yes, i think it is definitely part of the plan. the reason is this is the biggest dirty bomb you can possibly imagine. in other words, what the russians are doing, they re holding this plant hostage, and by extension that entire region around the zaporizhzhia plant is being held hostage so the russians can perhaps gain leverage in terms of keeping territory in the sourkts making it more difficult for the ukrainians to advance t.
ukrainians, of course, took kherson and were able to do that in a very systematic fashion. they did it and did it very well. the russians are holding this plant hostage. the risk is very high of, in essence a nuclear accident or nuclear incident that would potentially render that entire area useless for several decades. no question. going back to when i was first in ukraine at the start of the war in february, ukrainians have been calling closing the sky, as they said, just basically more help to keep russian aircraft and missiles from being able to rain down this kind of destruction. they ve been getting more air defense systems from the west, but not as much as they d like. i wonder your view. is it not enough and not quickly enough? in large part that s it exactly, jim. what we need to do in an effort to close the skies, as they say,
on the other side. and while it s true the ukrainians have been hitting their supply lines, the russians have not been fully beaten. they are choosing to come back. certainly within the last week i was in ukrainian positions that were being shelled by the russians. it s not like they haven t been firing. so i think from their point of view, they may think that while they won t be able to advance, it s going to be very difficult as well for the ukrainians to come their way. let s speak to katarzyna zysk, a professor of international relations form the norwegian institute for defence studies. thank you so much forjoining us on outside source. let me ask you first of all, what will a russian retreat from the city of kherson mean for ukrainians from a strategic standpoint? it ukrainians from a strategic standpoint? ukrainians from a strategic standoint? , , ., standpoint? it is very important, another important standpoint? it is very important, another important victory - standpoint? it
russia is annexed after the sham referendum a few weeks ago. he is basically keeping his real motives here well hidden and there s no reason at the moment to think they have changed. he wants regime change in ukraine, he wants to ukraine that is totally beholden to russia. inaudible. they put theirfaith inaudible. they put their faith injoe biden to rein in the ukrainians, it denies the ukrainians, it denies the ukrainians any agency in a war of self defence. it ukrainians any agency in a war of self-defence. of self-defence. it suggests that if somehow of self-defence. it suggests that if somehow joe - of self-defence. it suggests that if somehow joe biden l of self-defence. it suggests - that if somehow joe biden picks that if somehowjoe biden picks up that if somehowjoe biden picks up the phone, he can turn on or off the ukrainian military offensive at his whim. that is a really faulty assumption on
through the streets. fighting for ukraine. through the streets. fighting for ukraine. they through the streets. fighting for ukraine. they did - through the streets. fighting for ukraine. they did it - for ukraine. they did it deliberately in the morning to have the panic and that is what he has not achieved, panic. ukrainians are much more calm now. it ukrainians are much more calm now. . , ~ ukrainians are much more calm now. . , ~ ., now. it felt a bit like a return now. it felt a bit like a return to now. it felt a bit like a return to the - now. it felt a bit like a return to the early - now. it felt a bit like a l return to the early days now. it felt a bit like a - return to the early days of the war, is that howard felt to you? this is the not the first day we had massive attacks, massive missile attacks, are probably today, it was a bit higher. it probably today, it was a bit hi . her. probably today, it was a bit hiaher. , , higher. it might resemble the first da s h