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Joining me now, karen demurgeian and barton gelman. latest piece, is the trump white house spying on the fbi. bart, let me start with that on you. i think the operating principle or the operating assumption a lot of us have had is there was a fishing expedition into the raw intelligence by the white house as a means of reverse-engineering some plausible kernel of a basis for this wildly unsupported claim by the president. it was then given to nunes. you sort of floated an alternate theory about ...

House spying on the fbi. bart, let me start with that on you. i think the operating principle or the operating assumption a lot of us have had is there was a fishing expedition into the raw intelligence by the white house as a means of reverse-engineering some plausible kernel of a basis for this wildly unsupported claim by the president. it was then given to nunes. you sort of floated an alternate theory about what these individuals might have been doing inside that intelligence. what is that t...

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