trump is already scrambling the map this year. in utah where the mormon electorate is especially unfavorable to trump his lead is down to 5.5. prompting the campaign to dispatch mike pence to salt lake city less than two weeks before the election to do damage control. he's there tomorrow. mitt romney himself a mormon won utah by 48% in 2012. given trump's polling deficit his lack of ads it came as a surprise that according to "the washington post" trump has stopped holding high-dollar fund-raisers and relying on online donations which tend to be much smaller. that's after campaign financial reports show more money spent than raised in the month of september. reports add to growing speculation that donald trump is not in very deep psychological sense running to be president of the united states so much as he's running to build up a fan base for donald trump. with the advent of trump tower
and then i could advertise a project that i'm doing. like doral or something. and spend half a million dollars on it or a million dollars. or i can do the show and spend nothing and be on for a lot longer. >> on the very day those tapes went public, that's exactly where trump was, doral. his resort and golf club outside miami. the event was ostensibly a campaign photo op with a group of employees, many who are hispanic and support the republican nominee. it sounded like this. >> 800 acres in the middle of miami. if you look at the ballroom, that was brand-new that didn't exist. it's one of the great places on earth. we had a construction crew here of 1600 people. we rebuilt the whole place in 14 months. we did it under budget although i did increase the scope of the work because we decided to use the finest marbles. >> while trump was hanging out at his golf course with the finest marbles, hillary clinton was holding an event at broward
alternative, which it is a business proposition, a poor business proposition and he's handling it terribly because he's incompetent at doing the one thing he says he's good at. >> that's a possibility. i think he's far too smart for that and at 70 years old as a billionaire mogul. >> we'll have to see the tax returns. >> that's not on his agenda right now. i don't think anyone can doubt this. even if you have the most malicious and nefarious view of donald trump you can't doubt that he's poured his body and soul into this campaign. >> everyone who runs for president does that. >> no, no. it's incredibly special. if you were to compare his schedule to hillary clinton's you would see a frenetic campaigner on one side, a man who could be my father -- >> all the time, yeah. >> -- i could never keep up his schedule versus hillary clinton who campaigns every few days. >> but you realize this is like one of trump's sons said this is
a huge step down for him to run for president. he's not doing it -- donald trump isn't doing anyone any favors for running to be the most powerful person on the planet, right? >> i disagree by saying a step down the presidency is never a step down. >> good, i'm glad we agree on that. >> i think he misspoke there, chris. having said that, i truly believe this, i did, and i came to the trump train late. i'm a convert to the trump train. i haven't been drinking trump kool-aid since the very beginning but i've become a true believer. i really believe this. this man, do you think that at this stage of his life, of his fortune, his career, he needs any of this? no, he doesn't. he is doing this because he sees that our country is gravely ill. we are economically and nationally sick -- >> i understand that that's the theory of the case for trump supporters and it's what donald trump says and it's possible that that is actually the case. the other theory of the case -- and it's not just one that
people opposed to him politically believe, but people that share the republican party's beliefs but don't like donald trump is he's fundamentally a narcissist who has become addicted to the attention, is sort of compulsively driven by attention and this has given him an outlet for that attention and crucially doesn't actually care about the party that he is nominally representing in two weeks. >> that's an important point. chris, to your point, and i will concede this to you, there are some people whom i respect who hold those views. i would counter that by saying that generally they are part of a washington establishment that exists for its own self-aggrandizement -- >> yes, i get that. >> -- we are the outsiders and the establishment can't stand what we represent. and by the way, i'm glad they can't because we're not coming there around the edges. >> i can say i get that argument. there's some truth to that. you're talking about this wired part of the establishment.
but the random mormon voters that wanted nothing to do with the guy are now part of the establishment have come to the same conclusion. thank you. congratulations the campaign just bought a bunch of copies of that book. that's money in your pocket. >> well, no, it isn't. i've given away so far $85,000. >> is that true? >> $85,000 in royalties so far this year and i'll continue to give it away to anti- -- pro-immigration causes. >> trying to make sense of he's going to this hotel. he's at doral today. we've got the tape saying he's going to his hotel tomorrow. there's a sense in which it could be the case that the incentives of running for president and getting maximum attention for yourself sometimes align and at some point they stop aligning and you just keep going with the incentives for maximum attention for yourself. >> that's the only incentive he has. so what you said -- poor steve cortez, what a horrible,
horrible job to have to defend this man. and you can see how impossible it is at this point. >> let me just note on steve's behalf and steve believes in what he's saying and i don't doubt for a moment all the people you see on donald trump have not been drafted into it. everyone has entered into it of their own -- >> i don't mean he's doing it against his will. it's a crappy job. no, so i think the point you were making about his need for attention, listen, he has kept upping the ante in terms of getting attention. "the new york times" peace about michael d'antonio's interviews really brought that up again, this desperate feeling that if i'm not getting attention, that i barely exist. he's like -- he's rowing the boat across a river and the promised land is on the other side but there's a hole in the boat and he's bailing, bailing, bailing, and he's bailing so much that he can't actually row the boat. so the promised land is never
going to be reached. >> it's funny you said that because the way this gets understood in the campaign context oh, they're not doing the blocking and tackling, the organizational operational things they need to do in this election, why is he going to his hotel. that's called lack of discipline. >> if you were just lazy, you would offload that to someone else and let them do the work for you. his incentives are not aligned with the republican party. they are part of the time but not all the time. i also wonder if at this point, given his noted inability to deal with shame, humiliation and loss and what seem like epically deep psychic wounds that he carries around, he just wants to go and be in a place that he feels like he created and -- >> right. go back to home. >> go back to somewhere, something that he maybe can feel good about.
>> yeah, he did end today's doral event by just muttering rosebud over and over again. >> no, i think the fascinating -- several different pieces of the trump psyche revealed by what happened today and one of them is this decision not to hold more fund-raisers. what's that about? that's very simple. he's already in revenge mode. >> desperate. >> he wants to get the republican party. and if it means blowing up the republican party, the democracy, whatever it takes, donald trump is going to try to get back some semblance of self-worth. >> and to me, the biggest lesson i've learned up till now with two weeks to go before the election and the thing i have to take myself back to kind of parse is just how powerful a personality can be when it is as not worried about norms or shame as a normal person. like that's been the big lesson.
like, wow, you can really go pretty far and you can get away with a lot. >> at the risk of violating goodwin's law, this is the big lie, that's why it's so powerful. that most people will not accept the fact that you are -- who was it that said that eventually donald trump will go on television and insist he never ran for president? his ability to be so shameless, i think that it's impossible for most people to parse. they assume that there must be something to his grandiose self-presentation because who could be a con man on that big of a scale? >> well -- yeah, go ahead. >> my question to you is the other thing you have to remember about this guy is he's not been a politician. running for electoral office is deeply humbling, not in the way like i'm deeply humbled. you go and shake hands and beg people for your vote and you lose races. he's not gone through that. so huh reacts this last two
weeks is a totally open question. >> i think it's pretty clear how he'll react. he'll keep doing those things that make him feel like it's somebody else's fault that this has happened and he'll keep doing those things that serve his self-interests. the clash of civilizations that really this represents is between self-interest and a greater interest. it's between me and we. thank god it looks like we is going to win because if it doesn't win, the planet isn't going to survive. and if trump -- i really believe that. i believe that we're at a turning point here. >> and there are concentric circles of we, the we of the planet, the we of a whole bunch of stuff. thank you both. the early returns from early voting. president obama's battleground states director on what early
votes tell us about where this race stands two weeks out and why the odds democrats take back the senate are getting better after a quick minute break. on the roaoaagn ♪ [ front assi sounds [ musi on the roaoaagn ♪ [ girl lghs ] ♪ike a band of gypsies weo down the highway ♪ [ beetle horn honk standardeature you gete foless than you expeed hurry and lease for just $199 pa month. would you lp me make art? ♪ each one of or journe ♪ keeps us youn hey, i have an id! ♪ we'll never get old... artygoe amazing! amazing!
announcer: give your cardboard box another fe. woman: how do we protect them from $4 billion in new cuts to california schools? man: vote yes on proposition 55. woman: prop 55 doesn't raise taxes on anyone. man: not on working californians, not small businesses. no one. woman: instead, prop 55 simply maintains the current tax rate on the wealthiest californians. man: so those who can most afford it continue paying their fair share... woman: ...to prevent new education cuts... man: ...and keep improving california's schools.
woman: vote yes on prop 55 to help our children thrive. as donald trump's fortunes continue to slide, he's increasingly dragging the fortunes of senior republicans with him. the cook report saying that senate democrats are poised to pick up five to seven seats which would give them the majority. races in the toss-up column never split down the milled. one party tends to win the lion's share of that. there's not enough time for republicans to recover toss-up seats in the states where hillary clinton is leading. early voting is under way and trump won't be any help especially since his campaign doesn't have a ground game to speak of. between the dnc and state party operations campaign finance reports show democrats employ 5,138 staffers across 15 battleground states.
trump's campaign, the republican national committee employ just 1400 staffers in 16 states. how well does that work for those who turn out for election day. early voting data offers some potential insight. according to "the washington post," the end of saturday, staffers s s celebrated 39,148 people had vetted compared to 33,187 in 2012. no wonder katy perry held a rally for clinton in clark county on saturday literally gave a ride to some attendees to some of the early voting spots afterwards. in a one-two punch, president obama was in the same county the next day. if there's a single person on earth who knows this data inside and out, it's mitch stewart. currently a partner at 270 strategists. i want to start with this before
we get to the early voting data. it's important for folks to understand when you were sitting at your perch in the 2012 campaign and folks were running the operation in clinton's campaign, you're not looking at the real clear politics or 548, you have internal data. what is that made of and what does it say and tell you that we on the inside don't know? >> you have a voter file that has all kinds of different data information on these specific individuals. their vote history, likely candidate preference. all kinds of things that you can look at. what you get then from the county auditor or from the secretary of state are individual level returns. so you know exactly who voted early, and many times you know how they voted early, either in person or by mail. then you can imagine that back to your existing database or voter file. >> and you know enough about those people you sort of profiled the them whether it's
through their age, their education level, their ethnicity to be pretty confident who they're actually voting for based on the models you have. >> no, exactly right. you look at two separate data points. the first is what we call a preference candidate model. every voter will have a score from 100-1. out of 100 mitch stewarts, barack obama would get 1 vote. ten people would vote for barack obama. 90 for mitt romney. you look at that and then you also look at your turnout score. how likely are you to vote if somebody were not to remind you? you have a score of 100-1 on every single voter in that state. what you want to do with early vote, in most states, you want your supporters who have a middling turnout score, folks you aren't superconfident they will vote on election day unless you remind them. you want them to vote early. if somebody lass a high turnout
score, irrespective if you remind them or not. >> you have the two scores. how likely am i to support the candidate that mitch stewart is supporting which would be barack obama -- you want people you are sure will vote for your candidate but in the middle of the propensity to turn out bau you can work on them in this sort of sustained fashion for this period and make sure they get in their own time and choosing. >> that's exactly right. not only do you measure your success from a field operation, you also measure your opponent's success and who are they getting to turn out early? are these getting out election day voters and just doing it early or are they reaching into the people who would be less likely to participate so they're growing their pie? so you look at both. >> you can do something like in 2012, say in a state like nevada, your campaign basically knew who won nevada before election day. >> you will have 80% of nevadans
vote early. we had about a 12-point lead with 80% of the electorate in. the republicans would be literally like a 70-30 win on election day to make up for that early vote deficit. iowa is another example. just 40% voted early and we had about a ten-point lead. on election day republicans had almost an insurmountable gap to fill. you felt very, very comfortable with a couple of those states or you knew that this could be really, really close like florida. so it does provide you some assurance of what's going to happen on election day. but more importantly from a campaign perspective, it allows you to allocate resources more efficiently. so we stopped spending a ton of money in nevada once we realized that 80% of the electorate voted. we wind down the budget there and focus on a state like virginia where 90% of the state
will vote on election day because there's very little vote happening there. >> we'll check in on elizabeth warren who is speaking moments ago. take a listen. >> she gets up every day -- no, i hope you heard donald trump in the debate when he said that he was smart not to pay any taxes. that's right. he is smart and all of you who pay taxes are dumb. everyone who pays taxes. to keep our roads and bridges working is dumb. everyone who pays taxes to support our world class military is dumb. everyone who pays taxes to support medical research and scientific research is dumb. dumb because donald trump doesn't plan to pay. he just plans to use all those things you paid for. what kind of man does that?
a selfish little sleazeball. a man who will never be president of the united states. you bet. now, donald trump's been out there. he hasn't been hiding who he is. he's been out there from the very beginning. he's been out there and where has your senator, richard burr, been all this time? i wanted to look this up, make sure i got this right before i came here. richard burr said make no mistake, i am fully supportive of donald trump. no dancing around that one. so donald trump called latinos rapists and murderers and burr fully sports trump. trump called african-americans thugs and donald trump -- and
burr fully supports donald trump. trump attacked a gold star family and burr fully supports donald trump. trump praised vladimir putin and compared himself to dictators. and burr fully supports donald trump. trump calls women fat pigs and bimbos and brags about sexually assaulting women. and richard burr is like a puppy on a leash sticking right there with donald trump. you know, if richard burr is just going to be donald trump's lapdog, then let him go off and do that, but the people of north carolina need a strong, independent voice to fight for the families of north carolina.
and that is deborah ross. >> that was elizabeth warren speaking in north carolina just a few moments ago in support of deborah ross who is the democratic senate candidate challenging richard burr in a tightly contested race, yolking him to trump. as you just saw. spent many years as a nuclear missile launch officer. if the president gave the order, we had to launch the missile th. i prayed tt callwould ver come. self control m be all at keeps these misses frofiring.
i ulbomb the s[ be ]ut of 'ebe all i want to unpredictable. i lovear. the thoughonald trump with nuclear weapons scares me to death. it should scare everyone. i'hillary clinton and i approve this msa. donald trump has spent his entire presidential xap both obsessed with media coverage and harshly critical of the press. his rhetoric has grown ever harsher in recent weeks as his poll numbers collapsed. >> these people are among the most dishonest people in the world, the media.
they are the worst. they're trying to fix the election for crooked hillary. the media is entitled, condescending and even contemptuous of people who don't share certain elitist views. >> reporters are ritualistic booed when they're escorted into the trump rallies where they stand in pens and heckled while they cover them. this video shows the view from the press area. reporters describe did vitriol they face at trump rallies as increasingly hostile with people flipping middle fingers at them. a trump rally in cleveland buzzfeed reporter rosie gray reported that two men outside the press pen were quoted picking up after one of the men said the word lugenpresser.
>> lugenpresser. >> you said it right. that's right. >> the word that man there was so excited to learn, lugenpresser means lying press in german. and it's the term the nazis used to demonize and the media and stir anti-jew hatred. while trump has traveled further into the fact-free swamp and a cocoon where he doesn't like anything that he says is false. it must be cured if the party is to be saved. we'll break down her diagnosis next. ♪
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beamed out to million of viewers. a fixer for hillary clinton named jack rogan was recently featured as hillary's hit man in a "national enquirer" cover story claiming that clinton is a quote -- and i'm quoting here -- a secret sex freak who paid fixers to set up elicit romps with both men and women. he's an editor of the weekly world news that printed news of hillary's alien abduction complete with photographic evidence. hannity gave rogan a primetime platform in spite of admitting the network could not verify his claims. rush limbaugh claimed the mainstream media would not ignore this if it was about trump. would you think that "the
national enquirer" allegation of a guy saying he's procured women for hillary would even make its way -- well, of course not, but if the story was about trump, it would. >> this less than impeccable source makes the rounds of the right, limbaugh, drudge, hannity. championed by drudge and who today called into the limbaugh show to complain of what of all things, the mainstream media. >> hethese are vicious people. these are lying people. they're evil people, the press, the media. they're bad people. and nobody, nobody lies like they do. >> joining me now catherine rampell. the only way to save the republican party drain the right-wing media swmp. >> when trump gets the trouncing that erybody expects, the republican party will regroup and say, what's our autopsy this time around? if they're going to lay it at the feet of donald trump and say, you know, if we'd only had
a candidate with maybe the same package or policies but a little more empathic gloss, a little less boorish, less bigoted, hadn't been caught on tape saying he harassed women. that's wrong. the problem is not donald trump, the problem is that a large share of their base believes completely bonkers bigoted things. they've been fed this again and again over year business the right wing -- >> what do you mean by bonkers bigoted things. >> birtherism, data trutherism. >> is that like large significant parts of fox viewers and conservatives and republicans that think that all the economic data is being juiced. >> the polls are skewed. even the fox news polls are skewed these days according to the republican base. beyond that, you know, that the weather numbers that we get are wrong. you know, that matt drudge had recently said that nobody should evacuate their homes when a
hurricane was coming. >> right, a liberal media conspiracy. >> it was a conspiracy. the numbers were made up, the projections were made up to gin up fear about global warming. >> the idea is that there's this sort of context tu wal environment in which trump has flourished and the environment is more important than trump because the environment is the environment that's so self-contained and untethered from connections to external reality that you can have a candidate like this -- >> yes, basically the alt-right for years has created an alternate reality that has ultimately led to trump. >> you mean the right. >> the alt-right. >> i think i would say that there's a self-identified white nationalists of the alt-right. it's larger than that. >> i don't mean to paint all conservative leaning journalists with the same brush, those that are pedalling crazy conspiracy theories saying that obamaas not born in the united states, there sort of thing. >> that's part of the issue
because there's tons of conservative journalists and writers and folks at fox. there are places that people have integrity. they're opinionated with an ideological ax to grind but who doesn't have one. phil klein has been reporting on obamacare, conservative, doesn't like obamacare, is embedded in the facts of what obamacare is, there's subject matter, knowledge, there's expertise, all these things. that's a very small group of these folks with a very small -- >> and my concern is that republican leadership has been playing along for years with these conspiracy theorizers. >> they're controlled by them. they're terrified of them. look what happened to eric cantor in his primary race to david bratt when basically right wing radio decided to take him on. >> so i think there are two issues going on here, why they haven't been willing to take on the crazies essentially. one is that they desperately need the imprimatur of these places because they're influential, handy is
influential, drudge, whoever else, if they tick them off, they'll potentially lose those voters. to some extent the conspiracy theories have served their interests, in the short term. the popular mandate of the first black president, maybe that was useful to their cause in the near term, but in the long run it stoked a lot of racial resentment. the same thing with clinton voter fraud. >> it has been extremely useful. but in the pretext by which they passed actual pieces of legislation that made it harder for actual populations that actually vote for democrats in large numbers to vote. >> yes, and in the long run it set the stage for a presidential candidate to explain to his many voters that the election will be sto stolen from them. today a large share of republicans in particular believe that that election will be stolen. >> i think that it's absolutely the case and you're seeing it in
its sort of death throes now. karl rove in 2012 saying it's not over. but then they just went back to the script. the big question for the right is do they go back to the script or is there some kind of reckoning and catherine rampell, thanks for joining me. proud of y, son. ! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grdpappy's hammer and would have wanted y to have it. it meant aot to him... yes, ge makespowerful . bui'lle writing the code yes, ge makespowerful . that will allow those machines to shai' be changi the y the worlworks. (interrupting) you n't pick it up, can you? go ahead.hean't lift th. it's okay though! u're going to changethe wor. on a perfect c, then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raes your rates... maybe yoshld've done more research on them.
for drivers with accident forgiveness, libertmutual won't raise ur rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance the bonus thing 1 thing 2 tonight without commercial break in the middle. where he or she stands on their own nominee for president. because there are distinct categories. those who have always backed donald trump like for instance senator jeff sessions. there are a select few who have maintained never trump like senator ben sask, charlie baker and a handful of congress members. there were those who decided
relatively early to oppose, mark kirk, lindsey graham, susan collins and those who stood with trump until october through all the nasty statements, banning an entire religion, but finally threw in the towel after the infamous audio of trump bragging about grabbing women by the genitals. that list of late trump unendorsers includes john mccain, kelly ayotte and senate candidate joe heck of nevada. the supporters who heard trump on that bus bragging about sexual assault and defiantly proceeded to unendorse trump and call for him to step down only to then days or weeks later reendorse trump. this crowd has supported and opposed in disgust before reendorsing him, john thune, deb fischer and mike crapo. then there's pat toomey. who will be in charge of the
nuclear codes. pat toomey has his own answer. and that's thing 2 tonight. see, for the entire general election, senator pat toomey has simply refused to say whether or not he'll support the gop nominee. he won't endorse nor will he rule out voting for donald trump. he won't give a simple direct answer one that every single american has to answer for themselves all of which made for an interesting debate last night. >> i know you have been waiting for this debate. in fact, i know you've been waiting for this moment to say whether or not you will vote for the nominee of your party. so is it yea or nay? >> so, jim, unlike katie mcginty, i'm not a hyperreflexive ideologue who thinks he has to give blind obedience to his party's nominee. >> so i guess that means you haven't been waiting for this debate? >> i have refused to endorse donald trump. katie mcginty says that's supporting donald trump. that doesn't make any sense.
>> look, i'm not going to badger you to say something that you're not going to say, but don't you think your constituents, the people of pennsylvania deserve to know if you're going to support the nominee of your party? >> i don't think my constituents care that much how one person is going to vote. they're going to make their own decision. something new has arrived. ♪ iquely designed fo the driven. intring the rst-ever infiniti qx30 0 ossover. visit your loc infiniti retailer today. infiniti. power the drive. naator: adventure start isn forest.re but theo kubo: i spy somethg ginbeetle: snow. kubo: no. beetle: snow cored trees. monkey: noing too with snow. rrator: headutside to discover incredible animals
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u.s. service member. 34-year-old chief petty officer was attached to a navy s.e.a.l. team advising troops. he was in a vehicle and telling other members of his team he had spotted a roadside bomb when he was killed. he leaves behind a wife and a 7-year-old son. the stakes of this battle with both american and iraqi troops in harm's way are clear and progress has been steady in first week of the operation. iraq's prime minister says the offensive is going faster than planned. u.s. command says iraqi forces are making solid progress. but the attack on mosul is turning out to be a total disaster. we gave them months of notice. the u.s. is looking so dumb. vote trump and win again. that tweet prompting this response from secretary clinton. >> i was so appalled when donald trump tweeted that the new effort under way to push the terrorists out of the key city of mosul is already, and i quote
him, a total disaster, and that our country is again a, quote, looking dumb. really? he's declaring defeat before the battle has even started? he's proving once again he is unqualified to be commander in chief of our military. >> we are right now as a nation in the midst of choosing someone to command the most powerful, most deadly military on earth. it is not just mosul or the fight against isis that will be in the new president's portfolio. right now the u.s. is, get this, conducting air strikes or missile strikes with special ops, troops the on the ground in at least six different countries. yemen, libya, somalia, afghanistan, iraq and syria. that is what the next president will inherit in our era of constant war. that's what's front of mind for military members and their families and it should be front of mind for every voter. ♪
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miami this morning flanked by about 200 of his employees and tried to make the point that obamacare is a disaster for them. >> you can say all of my employees are having a tremendous problem with oba obamacare. you folks, this soot grogroup, another statement, this is horrible because of obamacare. >> except the vast majority is not on obamacare because their health care is provided by their employer donald trumps a resort. it seemed to catch a local camera operator by surprise. i'd say 99% of our employees are insured through the hotel, through our insurance and maybe there's a few that are insured through obamacare. but very, very few. i would say -- and i haven't gone flu the records, but over 95%, without a doubt. >> a short time later on fox news trump was asked how his employees are hurt by obamacare. >> a moment ago at your event in florida we're watching it live here in new york, you said that
it's costing jobs within your business itself. specifically how? >> -- obamacare, i must be honest with you, because it's so bad for the people and they can't afford it. i'm at trump international doral in miami and we don't even use obamacare. we don't want it. >> joining me now political reporter for "the new york times" and msnbc contributor. the perfect moment to me for two reasons, one it displays donald trump's general level of sort of policy expertise. and number two, most americans still now in 2016 don't know what obamacare is, couldn't tell you what it is, or who it affects. it's become this kind of culture war issue or symbolic thing. can you put a creche in the public square? >> you know, and if you called it trumpcare, it would probably poll better or call it like powellcare, it's the social with
president obama that drove down the approvals. obviously for some people the premiums are going up, it will be a hardship, but much more than the exchanges. the gaurns on coverage and parents plans. >> you're saying the bill itself, the law itself. you can stay on till you're 26 there's a whole lot of laws about pushing the cost down and innovation in medicare and medicaid delivery and health systems and integrated care and there's no lifetime maximums, yada, yada, but a tiny percentage of voters are in there. >> but if we're dealing with a candidate who had any grasp of public policy or the idea of how to talk to voters 13 days before an election, we might see someone who could frame -- >> could make that argument. >> very clearly. this is a horrible day for sort of obamacare and ergo hillary clinton. trump can't help but make everything either, a, about himself or he doesn't much knew,
know about obama, the language of this man is deplorable. he didn't seize the opportunity to break it down to the public. everyone is there asking him questions about it. he could have walked them through it briefly. >> to me it remains -- so we were talking about there's 3% of the people who are roughly insured should get their insurance through the exchanges. 80% of them are subsidized, more or less, we're talking about 1% of people that get the full heft of this subsidy increase. there are 7 million people who are not on the exchanges but are buying plans, individual plans or small plans so they'll also see the premium hikes. this is the a small percentage of voters. this law as controversial as the day it passed is actually a thing out there in the world which i have to say continues to astound me. because i don't think that was the expectation. >> i think president obama was
not great about selling it in the early years. that's one problem. they tried to rectify that. i do think that the reason the focus is on the exchanges is that the exchanges are the broken part. and the interests that want to kill obamacare would not want to focus on the parts that are very, very popular, such as you can't be denied coverage for a prior condition and if the conditions were such that you could focus on the popular part, it would probably be a different conversation. kind of weird that none of the democrats or the gop has managed to really steer that conversation in the presidential election. >> but here's what i want to ask you as a political scientist, i sort of feel in the long run that the sort of lines of politics and policy should converge, right? if there's something that there's a lot of scare tactics and it will destroy america and turn us into this socialist monster and the thing happens and it's not that but maybe has some broken parts but opinion would converge on it but instead a health reporter called it like roe v. wade, there's no convergence on the sense it's
just as polarizing. people have their fixed views about these things despite the fact that it's an operating thing that you can empirically assess. >> that goes back to nick's point when obama did something that fdr couldn't do, something lbj couldn't do and william jefferson clinton couldn't do and he passed obamacare and put his name on it. he took the negative. >> they put his name on it. >> exactly. but he never framed this. we saw it with the stimulus package and the affordable care act. there's still so much confusion and misinformation from the very beginning we're still sort of seeing how this has played out eight years after the fact. >> there's fascinating science that shows people's perceptions of what it is and what it constitutes and who it helps are crazy skewed. people perceive the stimulus bill and obamacare to be aimed at black people that it's not true which accounts for the hatred and resistance to it.
>> who benefits from it. >> he's done very few racially targeted policies. you know, he is under the -- for better or worse, but you know all -- what is it, all tides lift all boats? yes, so there's going to be certain segments of the population that are disaffected good or bad but this is not a racially targeted policy by any stretch of the imagination. >> but that doesn't mean the perception of it -- >> perception becomes reality. >> democrats thought this would be a real boon to them. bill clinton said pass it, people will love it. that will be a political boon. that's not been the case. it's not the kryptonite that republicans believe. republicans keep thinking obamacare is so terrible. you want to reject this. >> look at the demographics. not getting republicans rich. there are certain republicans who are destitute and they realize a small segment realize that this is actually what's been keeping them afloat. >> that's true. >> so many people are one injury away from -- >> yeah. >> but also like with people on the exchanges, the people
>> i have recused myself in the matters that deal with the trump campaign. >> that statement by the attorney general on thursday came after the washington post revealed that sessions met twice last year with russian ambassador sergei kislyak. sessions scrambled to clarify. >> in retrospect i should have slowed down, but i did meet one russian official a couple of times and that would be the ambassador. >> sessions met with kislyak on july 18th, after speaking with a group of ambassadors in the republican convention and he met again with the russian ambassador at his office on september 8th, just three days after president obama took a hard line on russian sanctions in a g-20 meeting with vladimir putin. since the election, trump and his surrogates have repeatedly denied any contacted between the campaign and russian officials. >> i'm telling you it's all phony, baloney garbage. >> all of the contact by the trump campaign and the associates was with the american people.
>> you are not aware of any contacts during the course of the election. >> how many times do i have to answer this question? i have nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge no person that i deal with does. >> but the sessions reversal is one example of a growing list of admissions, dragged out of the trump administration after reporting on contact between trump associates and russian officials. there is now former national security adviser michael flynn who had publicly denied he had discussed sanctions and phone conversations with kislyak in december. after reporting detailed phone calls, flynn reversed himself and was forced to resign. jared kushner, reports disclose he was part of a december meeting with kislyak at trump tower. then there's mr. trump's former campaign chairman paul manafort. in july he denied that to appease the russians. the campaign fought to have the republican platform not include weapons for ukraine. >> it did not come from the trump campaign. i don't know who everybody is,
but i guarantee you. >> nobody from the trump campaign wanted that change in the platform? >> no one. zero. >> but former trump policy adviser j.d. gordon tells abc nbc news that manafort was not forth right with us. gordon says he was in the room and told the committee chairman that the amendment was a, quote, problem for the campaign. gordon also met with the russian ambassador at the convention and then there's carter page, a one-time trump policy adviser who was also at that meeting. he has changed his story about meeting with russian officials. >> i had no meetings. no meetings. >> but on thursday, page's answer changed. >> did you meet sergei kislyak in cleveland? did you talk to him? >> i'm not going to deny that i talked to him. >> by the way, we contacted paul manafort last night and he told us, quote, he has always been forthright with us and had no knowledge of the platform change until the sunday after the convention so he could haven't
authorized the change. joining me is senator marco rubio. republican of florida. welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thank you. good morning. >> good morning. you traveled with the president on friday down to florida on air force one. and on saturday morning the president went on a tweet storm accusing former president obama of illegally having him wiretapped. do you have any insight? first of all, did the president talk to you about this on friday and do you have any insight on what precipitated all of this? >> we never discussed that, number one, and i have no insight into what exactly he's referring to, and i would imagine the president and the white house in the days to come will outline further what was behind that accusation. i've never heard that before, and i have no evidence or no one's ever presented anything to me that indicates anything like that. in the days to come you guys are going to ask him and i imagine he'll answer it.
>> for what is it worth, as a member of the senate intelligence committee, if there was a wiretap on donald trump's campaign isn't that something that you would have been made aware of? >> the term wiretap is thrown around very loosely by a lot of people so we have to understand exactly what they're talking about. i don't have any basis, i never heard that allegation made before by anybody, and i've never seen anything about that anywhere before. but, again, the president put that out there and now the white house will have to answer to exactly what he's referring to. >> it's such a serious allegation. it is either, if it's true, it's an extraordinary political scandal and if it's not true, it's an extraordinary political scandal. fair? >> well, if it's true, and i just hate speculating about these things. >> this is the president of the united states on your behalf? >> clearly, if that were true then there's no doubt that it would be a very newsworthy item with a lot of discussion about it, and if it's not true then obviously one would ask themselves why would you put that out there. what was the rationale behind
it? i didn't make the allegation and i'm not the person that went out there and said it. i've never said that before. i would not say that to you today, and i have no basis to say that. if the president and the white house does they'll lay it out over the next few days and we'll be interested to see what they were talking about. >> are you concerned that the president has a credibility problem? we can go back to the birther business, 3 to 5 million illegal votes and now this wiretap thing that you say you're not aware of. this is the president of the united states. can we take him at his word? >> first of all, i would say the president has gotten elected and in many ways he's doing what he told the people he was going to do. a lot of this outrage is donald trump is doing what he said he would do if he were elected and you see that reflected in the public polling where a large number of americans are saying he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do, and that's what people are mostly focused on. is the president's style different than mine? absolutely. is he an unorthodox political figure? absolutely. that's what people voted for and that's what they wanted in this election.
wherever those facts lead us and we'll allow people to make judgments based on those facts. >> given that there have been reports that the white house reached out to your chairman of this intelligence committee richard berg of north carolina. some democrats are concerned, including mike warner are concerned that the credibility of the intelligence committee's investigation is now at peril because of this. is there a point, and i know you believe you guys can do this. you have tweeted that you guys can do this yourselves in the intel committee. is there a point that it might be better for the political process to take politics out of this and have a special prosecutor, whatever youant call it, and put this sort of out of congress right now? >> not now. i certainly don't think we're at that point at this moment and here's why. the job of the intelligence committee is not to be a law enforcement agency. the job of the intelligence committee is to gather facts and evidence to go through counterintelligence programs and intelligence programs and understand all of the evidence and the facts that's out there about how the russians did this and why they did this, et cetera and put this all in a report and that's our job to gather facts
and i've told everybody i'm not going to be a part of a witch hunt and i'll also not be part of a cover-up. i want to put the facts out there wherever the facts lead us and that's what the senate intelligence committee will do. i will tell you this, if it's not what we do and if it's not the product we produce i will be among the first people out there on this program and out there that i did not sign my name on the report because it gave irrelevant facts that the american people deserve to know. we're a finder of facts, a collector of facts and we will put that in the report and people will make those judgments based on those facts. >> right after the fbi director comey briefed the intelligence committee, i believe it was about -- in fact, it was exactly february 17th, you tweeted the following. i am now very confident senate intel committee i serve on will conduct a thorough bipartisan investigation of interference of putin influence. i understand that was what you
were briefed on, but what gave you more confidence to tweet that than before that day. >> first of all, because i'm interactive with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle and what i have very strongly is every member of that committee is interested at arriving at the facts and the truth. no one is looking at this from a political angle and everybody at the end of the day understands what the job is, understands that the credibility of the committee is on the line and we want to arrive at the truth. everyone in there is prepared to go where the facts lead us irrespective of what the implications will be politically. i am very confident of that. i remain confident of that. if that changes then i will be the first out there to say hat committee is no longer capable of doing their job and we're not at that point, thankfully. >> you said you're not going to participate in a witch hunt and that is words that the president has used to describe all of this. the more he does that, is that an irresponsible use of phrase right now? >> i don't know why. he obviously feels very strongly that he's being accused of things that he hasn't done and
there's hysteria in the media and he has the right to say. he has every right to defend himself and that's what he's doing. my use of the term has to do with the following and that is i want to go where the truth is irrespective of its political implications. wherever the truth is where we're going to go and everyone else needs to be committed to that principle, as well. and i believe in the intelligence committee that we are and if that changes, as i told you, i'll be the first among them to say it. >> do you believe the intelligence community's assessment that the russians interfered in this election and did so to try to benefit donald trump? >> well, i've never doubted that the in -- from back in october i've been telling people, i was in the middle of my campaign, and i refused to talk about wikileaks because it was the work of a foreign intelligence agency trying to influence our elections. the key is not just to understand what they did, but how they did it because they'll try to do it again and again, not just to influence elections and to influence political debates in washington, d.c.
i want to make sure that we don't spend so much time focused on things that may not have happened that we don't focus on the things that actually did happen because they're happening now in france. they're happening now in germany and it will happen again in this country if we don't learn from it. >> senator marco rubio, republican of florida. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. always a pleasure, sir. >> thank you. >> thank you. on thursday before attorney general jeff sessions recused himself from any investigation involving russia and the trump campaign, chuck schumer from new york joined a growing list of democrats calling for sessions to resign. on friday afternoon president trump released that photo and called him a hypocrite. on this ♪, senator schumer joins me now. >> good morning. >> good morning to you, sir. there are so many tweets to keep up with. >> happily talked with putin and his associates and took place in '03 in full view of press and
public under oath. would you and your team, that's you challenging them under oath. let me ask you this, this morning the president's press secretary came out and said the following, reports concerning politically motivated investigations immediately ahead of the 2016 election are very troubling. president trump is requesting that as part of their investigation into russian activity the congressional intelligence committee exercise their oversight authority whether executive branch powers were abused in 2016. is that a fair ask of this administration? >> well, look, president obama has flatly denied that he has done this, and either way, chuck, the president's in trouble if he falsely spread this kind of misinformation, that is so wrong and beneath the
dignity of the presidency. it is something that really hurts people's view of government. its civilization warping, and i don't know if any president democrat or republican in the past has done this. it shows this president doesn't know how to conduct himself. on the other hand, if it's true it's even worse for the president because that means that a federal judge independently elected has found probable cause that the president or people on his staff have had probable cause to have broken the law or to have interacted with a foreign agent. that's serious stuff. either way, the president makes it worse with these tweets. is he trying to divert this here? yeah. the president denied this. i don't have any doubt that president obama has been telling the truth. if they want to investigate it, sure, but the real point is we need a special prosecutor to investigate what went on in the trump campaign transition and presidency. >> let me ask you -- let me start with that, actually. >> please. >> do you no longer have confidence in the intelligence committee to do this on the
senate side to conduct this investigation? >> let me answer that in two parts. first, the intelligence committee has congressional oversight, and yes, i have doubts about chairman burr. he first denied that they should investigate and when pushed by mike warner he said, okay, we'll investigate and then of course at the administration's request he went to the president and said something is wrong. that's taking sides in the investigation. the faith i have in the intelligence committee is in mike warner and the democrats. they've been holding burr's feet to the fire and they will look for another alternative if chairman burr doesn't pursue this. there is another point to this. people mix up the two. the other is, of course, whether the law was broken and whether the trump campaign was complicit in working with the russians to influence the election. that needs a special prosecutor. rod rosenstein, he's a career man, he will be before the
judiciary committee for his nomination for deputy attorney general. i am urging him at that hearing to say that he will appoint a special prosecutor to look into this because it's on the executive side that any investigation is done and any criminality is put forward. >> let me ask you about this specific charge, what you were just talking about with president trump, this idea that there may have been a court order surveillance of some form or another. you're part of what's called so many gangs on senate side and you're one of the gang of eight on intelligence matters, the most sensitive intelligence matters. you're briefed on this. is it fair -- wouldn't you have been briefed if the fbi had gone to a fisa court to get surveillance of a foreign government involving the trump campaign? wouldn't you know this? >> i don't comment on classified briefings. >> it's fair to say -- can you -- why not, if you know this information why not share it at this point?
>> as i said -- >> we have a problem of trust and it goes to what you just quoted of ben sasse. >> you cannot comment on classified briefings and i'm not going to violate those rules. >> okay. so -- >> sorry. >> but we are to sit here and wonder and ponder. >> well, no, if we have a special prosecutor they will get to the bottom of all of this and that's what we need. a special prosecutor is much better than letting a lying department person do it for three reasons and this is in doj guidelines. first, a special prosecutor has much more freedom day to day, who to subpoena and what documents to look at and the path of the investigation. second, the special prosecutor can only be fired for cause. so if they're hitting some real stuff they can't just be gotten rid of by sally yates was gotten rid of by the trump administration when she didn't do what they wanted and third, they have to report to congress so we really need a special prosecutor, and i'm hoping that rosenstein will agree to that
and make that -- say he's going to make that happen at the committee meeting. i know our committee members will be asking him about it. >> let me ask you this. congressman adam schiff, the top-ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee has implied that the fbi has not been forthcoming in their various briefings. you get these briefings. would you -- is he correct? do you believe the fbi has not been forthcoming on what it's doing with the trump campaign? >> well, let me just say this. the fbi is the premier investigative agency here in our government, and i believe that they will do their job and get to the bottom of this without political interference. >> right, but do you believe they have been withholding information from congress? >> well, there are certain kinds of information that can't be given to congress that, you know, or all of congress that's classified or that can't be released and there is a prosecutorial sort of way of doing things that you don't comment on ongoing investigations. >> so in this case, you wouldn't level the same criticism that
congressman schiff has? >> i'm just saying i am -- i believe they will get to the bottom of this. i hope they will, and if they don't, they'll be -- it will be a real dereliction of their duty. >> you have full confidence in the fbi right now? >> i gave you my answer. >> senator chuck schumer. democrat from new york. >> thanks, chuck. >> thanks for coming on and sharing your views. coming up, did the obama white house really leave a trail of bread crumbs about the trump/russia connection? for investigators to find a bit easier? i'll ask james clapper. brought to you by keytruda. to learn more, go to keytruda.com. needs a stable fo. a body without proper foot support can mean pain. the dr. scholl's kiosk maps your feet and recommends our custom fit orthotic to stabilize yo fndation and relieve foot, knee or lower back pain from being on your feet. dr. scholl's. hi, i'm frank.
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i don't know where to begin here, but tom friedman, it was jarring, president trump accusing president obama, and obviously, i guess it was an attempt to distract, but i don't know how this distracts from the russia story. >> it was beyond jarring, really, when you think about it, chuck. this is such a serious charge. under normal circumstances it would be a six-column headline in my paper and i think any other paper and a serious person before he made such a charge would have brought together the congressional leaders and briefed them on it, and brought together the intelligence community and the fact that he lobbed this on twitter at 6:00 in the morning is shocking. i think we have to keep one thing in mind, the big picture. e bipicture, chuck, is russia is not our friend. vladimir putin is not our iend. he has very specific goals. he wants to fracture nato. he wants to fracture the european union so it won't be a threat and he wants to destroy
the ability of the united states to lead a western alliance. right now in moscow they must be clinking vodka glasses because for less than the cost of a mid 29 they have thrown the west into complete disarray. >> it doesn't matter what you think of their intentions was, look at our country right now. >> what the russian intentions are and what happened during the election are two very different things. it's not just the russians who want to interfere in our election. lots of countries want to interfere in our elections, lots have tried. remember the chinese and al gore? the point was there someone inside the trump campaign that was working with them and did the president know about that and were they successful? and i think on those latter two questions we have no idea. >> no evidence. there's no evidence. i just heard chuck schumer suggest exactly what he did. we know that this is the case. there's nothing there. especially this recent discussion about jeff sessions which is the kind of height of
the ludicrousness of this, okay? if jeff sessions really was a mole working for the russian government he probably would have found a better place to have met with them than his public senate office surrounded by his aides so the meetings are not necessarily what matter. they don't prove anything. >> the one thing i will say this on these meetings -- >> is there any substance? >> they do have this pattern of oh, yeah, i forgot i had this meeting. >> as many in washington have suddenly forgot, mr. schumer, for instance about meeting with russian ambassador. >> but there is a difference? >> i don't know. >> you don't think there is a difference between those two? >> no. if you headed to a meeting and a bunch of ambassadors head to you, you wouldn't remember that? >> that i understand. after the mike flinn situation do you not try to correct the record? >> i agree, there is no evidence, that's why we need a special prosecutor and independent commission and we need to see
trump's taxes. >> there is an awful lot of smoke not to be a fire and you've had three people resign. the idea that i'll forget about a meeting with russians when there are news stories every day coming out about how russia has tried to influence what's happening in our country is kind of breathtaking, and i've got to side with marco rubio on this. look, he talked about he wasn't going to talk about it because he understood that russians are trying to influence our election and will continue to try to do something about it. this is a threat to our country, right? and the idea that russia is different from other countries, russia is very different from other countries because we have a history of the cold war with russia that apparently we thought was over because we have a short history lesson and view of the world and putin paused and clearly, they are clearly trying to influence and dominate the world than we've seen in a long time. >> i would be sympathetic to your argument if over the last eight years i would have heard it from people in your position. the problem is, for the last eight years when the russians have been exactly the same, putin has been
anathema, he has been screwing us in the middle east, to put it plainly, he's ben interfering in -- >> everything is blunt talk now. >> thank you very much, donald. but honestly speaking, the part of this is this is partisanship. if we could have a normal discussion about russia with obama and trump? fair enough. >> take partisanship away from it and put it to a special prosecutor then and take politics out of it. >> a special prosecutor doesn't fix it either. the problem we have at the moment is if you did what trump said and he put it all out there, there would still behalf of the country that didn't believe it was true and we have no faith in the public institutions. >> how do we restore the faith and how does congress do it? >> special prosecutor is not a good idea. their goal is to get someone in the end and they will follow any rabbit hole that they can go until they're not investigating the thing that they began with. >> you do believe congress and the commission? >> think maybe we are at a point where you need a rob silverman
type commission that we had in iraq intelligence that is bipartisan. i don't know what kind of powers would have, congress would have to decide that, but i neutral arbitrator because we need to know if there was wiretapping going on. >> just for the record, some of us took russia very seriously. during the last eight years. just to put that -- >> not in the white house. >> i'm not talking about the white house. >> some of us in the press. my point and what worries me is this, government moves at the speed of trust, and right now there is so little trust. we have a completely polarized environment and somehow we have got to restore that because i don't see how the president will be able to solve any of these big issues, immigration, debt, health care at the level of polarization that we have right now. >> i think we've exemplified it here a little bit. we'll pause the conversation and pick it up, i have a feeling on the other side of the half hour, but coming up is a man who may know more than anyone about russia's efforts to interfere with the 2016 election. it's james clapper.
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one reason give was to make it easier for government investigators, in particular congress, to uncover that truth. james clapper, a career intelligence officer was the director of national intelligence for more than six years under president obama. he spearheaded the report that was released in january that concluded that the russians hacked the democratic national committee e-mails and interfered with the 2016 election. and mr. clapper joins me now. welcome, sir, to "meet the press". >> thanks, chuck, for having me. >> let me start with the president's tweets that maybe president obama ordered an illegal wiretap of his offices and if something like that happened would this be something that you would be aware of? >> i would certainly hope so. obviously, i can't speak officially anymore, but i will say that for the part of the national security apparatus that i oversaw as dni, there was no wiretap activity mounted against the president-elect at the time or as a candidate or against his campaign. i can't speak for other title
3-authorized entities in the government or a state or local -- >> i was just going to say, if the fbi had a fisa court order for surveillance, would that be information that you would know or not know? >> yes. >> you would be told this. >> i would know this. >> if there was a fisa court order. >> something like this absolutely. >> at this point you can't confirm or deny whether that exists. >> i can deny it. >> there is no fisa court order. >> not to my knowledge. >> of anything at trump tower. >> no. >> that's an important revelation at this point. >> let me ask you this, does intelligence exist that can definitively answer the following question, whether there were improper contacts between the trump campaign and russian officials? >> we did not include evidence in our report and that's nsa, fbi and cia with my office, the director of national intelligence that had anything -- that had any reflection of collusion between members of the trump campaign or
the russians, there was no evidence of that in our report. >> i understand that, but does it exist? >> not to my knowledge. >> if it existed it would have been in the report? >> this could have unfolded or become available in the time since i left the government. >> at the time, we had no evidence of collusion. >> there's a lot of smoke, but there hasn't been that smoking gun yet. at what point should the public start to wonder this is all just smoke? >> well, that's a good question. i don't know. >> i do think, though, it is in everyone's interest. in the current president's interest, in the republicans' interest in the democrats intere interest, in the country's interest to get to the bottom of all of this because it's such a distraction and certainly the russians have to be churdling about the success of their efforts to dissension in this country. >> so you feel your report does not -- you admit that your report doesn't get to the bottom of this?
>> it got to the bottom of the evidence to the extent of the evidence we had at the time. whether there's more evidence that's become available since then or there are ongoing investigations will be revelatory. i don't know. ? there was a conclusion that said that it's clear that the russians did so and in an attempt to help donald trump? do you believe that? >> yes, i do. >> what's not proven is the idea of collusion? >> that's correct. >> when you see this parade of officials associated with the trump campaign and first they deny any conversations and now we're hearing more. does that add to suspicion or do you think some of this is circumstantial? >> well, i can't say what the nature of those conversations and dialogues were, for the most part. again, i think it would be very healthy to completely clear the air on this subject, and i think it would be in everyone's interest to have that done.
>> can the senate intelligence committee -- what are we going to learn from their investigation, do you think, that will move beyond what you were able to do? >> well, i think they can look at this from a broader context than we could, and at this point i do have confidence in the senate intelligence committee and their effort. it is under way in contrast to the house intelligence committee and we just last week agreed on their charter and importantly in the case of the senate intelligence committee this appears to me to be truly a bipartisan effort, and so i think that needs to play out. if, for some reason, that proves not to be satisfactory in the minds of those who make those decisions then move on to a special prosecutor. >> the new york times earlier this week, and as i was introducing you, this idea that they sort of left a trail, maybe lowered classification -- can you walk us through how that would work? did they lower levels of classification?
was that a fair read of what was done in the last few weeks of the administration? >> actually not because of the sensitivity of much of the information in this report our actual effort was to protect it, and not to spread it around and certainly not to dumb it down, if i can use that phrase, in order to disseminate it more widely. we were under a preservation order from both our oversight committees to preserve and protect all of the information related to that report in any event. >> let me ask you one other final question in the infamous dossier that was put together by this former british operative named christopher steel. why did you feel the need to brief the president on that at the time? >> we felt that it was important that he know about it, that it was out there, and without respect to the veracity of the contents of the dossier, that's why it was not included as a part of our report because much
of it could not be corroborated, and importantly, some of the sources that mr. steel drew on, second and third order assets, we could not validate or corroborate. so for that reason, at least in my view, the important thing was to warn the president that this thing was out there. the russians have a term, an acronym called kompelat that either they will generate, if it's truthful or contrived, and it's important, we felt, that he knew of the existence of the dossier. >> have you done this with other presidents? have you had to brief them about unverified intelligence? >> yes. i had occasion in the six and a half years i was dn ito tell president obama certain things and we could not validate or corroborate, but we thought he ought to know it was out there.
>> james clapper, i have a feel on -- do you expect to testify on capitol hill about these things? >> i don't think there's any doubt. we'll see you on tv some time soon and thank you for coming on and sharing your views? >> thank you very much, sir. when we've come back, we've seen almost weekly demonstrations against president trump, will they translate into democratic votes or will they turn to the left? we'll get that answer a lot sooner than you think. that's next. ♪
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election victories for democrats this year? well, there are three special elections coming up. two of which may help us answer that question. the montana at-large congressional district vacated by the new secretary ryan inky zinke and the georgia 6th congressional district that includes the northern suburbs of atlanta with tom price. let's take a look at montana, a state that's very rural, in other words, this should be trump country. those are all groups that they did well in november. this is a seat republicans have held since 1997. thing is montana isn't like other places and while they hold the senate seats, the democrats doold the her senate seats and the governor was elected with donald trump on the ballot. the democrats can win here. might give them hope for other rural places. if the republicans win maybe that the trump army is still with them. the story in georgia's 6th
congressional district is different. it's more diverse, higher educated and well-to-do, and it's been trending more and more blue over time. john mccain and mitt romney each won the district by double digits over barack obama in 2008 and 2012. donald trump only beat hillary clinton by 1% in 2016 even though price won his reelection by 23 points. so it is the kind of place that it might be showing signs that it is slipping away from trump's version of the republican party. so if the democrats win there it will say something, but if they can't win there, then it starts to raise questions about whether they have any hope at all in 2018. but guess what? if they win one or both they will suggest they have real momentum going into next year's midterms and i can tell you this, house republicans will start panicking this year if they see those results come in badly for them. when we come back, the story the white house hoped everyone would be talking about this sunday morning. k through your allergie. introducing flonase sensimist. more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist
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>> yes. >> but i have to ask myself, would we be talking about this at all if at all if he had not tweeted that out? >> we'd talk about the russia angle. >> talking about sessions. >> right. but he actually made two pieces of news here this morning, not just he said there's no court order and assuming he was not careful with the words, it sounded fairly categorical to me, but the other one that was there is simply no evidence of collusion, at least while he was there, which was until very recently between the trump campaign and russians. what we talking about for the last three weeks? >> so this is waking up at 6:00 a.m. in the morning, tweeting out one of the most damming accusations one president could make after another, and then talking about arnold schwarzenegger. that is not -- >> and then 18 holes. >> nonpresidential, nonadult
behavior. that is juvenile. the fact we have a president engaging in that is deeply disturbing. he's going to have to go to europe very soon and interact with other european leaders, world leaders, what do you think if you're a world leader in the meeting -- what do i say? what would he say about this meeting? he's everywhere we look. we talked about this before. i quoted my friend, there's a difference between formal and moral authority. this president has formal authority, but no moral authority. that's going to hurt. >> it's like like you have to wonder, is he playing us? right? we spend all this time talking about this, and it's like, you know, is he really bait and switch? is he die baht call in the way he plays this? it's hard to think sort of this was not thought out, so is he playing the american public? >> by the way, though, we have reporting, so tuesday night went well for him. >> right. >> wednesday went well. >> right.
>> hi apparently is angry that sessions rescued himself. this is the part of donald trump now that never gives an inch. >> he can't look at the reaction of the speech and understand how much it helped him to stay on script and sometimes -- >> and not tweet about schwarzenegger. >> put down the twitter account. there were polls after the speech, 82% who watched it thought he looked presidential, and the words in it, i mean, it was -- it was uplifting. it was a good speech laying out the policy agenda, putting the burden on democrats to work with him and get some of his agenda done, and then, yet, we're talking about twitter again. >> no discipline. it's got to drive people in the white house crazy. coming out of that -- >> it does. >> both presidents would roll in into momentum. >> for the week. >> you talked about districts that are up, you can't beat something with nothing, and unless the democrats have c
candidates, i believe, for pro-growth, patriotic, and want to build the country one community at a time, there's no reason to believe they're going to take huge political advantage. >> john wrote a good column here getting at this. he said this, just in general about the democratic party, because democrats and liberals opposed every appointment, every policy, every word from the trump administration, they damaged their effectiveness as a political force against it, in danger of limiting the ability to bring the stock trump voters they need to grow us illusioned by the side. do you believe that? >> absolutely. they are doing themselves damage by constantly calling on everybody to resign. they go to death con 5. >> house republicans did it all the time. ridiculous then, right? >> it is ridiculous on the part of all of them. congress needs to be taken seriously. congress just needs to start passing bills. congress doesn't actually need to play a game. this is where i don't get chuck schumer or nancy pelosi. don't, you know, vote against every nominee. don't go against everything the president says. why not try to work with the
american people to pass an agenda and get reelected? >> this is where i put the political hat head on, not the serious grownup hat. the political hat. you know, you can make the same argument about the tea party and what republicans did, but they were crazy like foxes. you have to generate energy among your base for fundraising, but also this, the problem in midterm elections is not just the presidential election voters changing minds, but the problem with midterms is there are different electorates. there's different turnout in midterm elections. if democrats shrink and give energy to the base, it's a good thing. >> i have to pause it here and sneak in a break. president trump calling for an end to trivial fights right before starting a trivial fight. we'll be right back. coming up, "meet the press" end game brought to you by boeing, working to build something better.
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if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. yet up 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more. add one a day women's complete with key nutrients we may need. plus it supports bone health with calcium and vitamin d. one a day women's in gummies and tablets. "meet the press" endgame is brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. >> back now with "endgame" i teased it. let's hear from the president on tuesday night. it was something that's back now with "end game," and i tuesdeased it. let's hear from the president tuesday night. something quoted a lot in the last 24 hours. >> the time for small thinking is over. the time for trivial fights is behind us. >> and then, of course, after president trump accused president obama of wiretapping him, he did, as you pointed out,
threw in schwarzenegger, he's note voluntarily leaving the apprentice, but fired by pathetic ratings, not by me. sad end to a great show. the only thing missing was #sad. >> right. >> you brought it up, it's -- you do, shake your head at it. >> you do. the president doesn't have message discipline. that's what was said. we talked about the democrats before. when you talk about wanting to win again in the midterm, they need to do something that's going to appeal to those people who voted for donald trump. talking about russia, calling on people to resign is not going to appeal to them, anger, i think, you'll agree with this, anger doesn't actually win elections. >> doesn't anger work in midterms? >> cornell put on the political hack hat. is that the only reason democrats are in washington? to win and have power? by the way -- >> what? >> no, no, no, they've been -- look, they have promised their voters some things that they would like to get done, and, by
the way, who better to work with than donald trump who loves to make a deal? by the way, this guy is one of the least ideological presidents ever in the white house. >> you know, chuck, a few more mornings of 6:00 a.m. tweets, and people will take away his football, and i mean, the nuclear codes. >> yeah. >> mitch mcconnell said my job is to make sure that the president obama is a one-term president. they are there for the power. that's not a good thing, but both sides play it. >> of course, no, i'm not suggesting otherwise, but if you did care about policy goals, you got an opportunity in donald trump. >> and power in anything. >> and i have to turn off the cameras, but you can keep debating. that's all we have for today. once again, three hour show packed in one hour. back next week, i promise, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." okay, continue. go ahead. you can see more end game and post game on the mtp facebook page.
saying, oh, no, never mind that, you're fired. >> to be clear to the viewers, we don't have the reporting confirmed that you're sharing with us. but that's obviously something we're trying to get information, answers to the white house, the justice department not commenting specifically on this firing. but let's talk a little bit more about bharara, his role here in new york, and really when it comes to litigation on such a large scale that impacts the country. he was not necessarily in just a routine post. >> so he gets called in the southern district of new york, called the sovereign district of new york. because it's a huge orbit. rudy giuliani was there. comey from the fbi. bhrara is looking at the mayor of new york city, has this ongoing corruption probe. he's about to try two of andrew cuomo's closest confidantes. and looking at things international in scope.
really big and interesting. in addition to the fox thing i mentioned, significantly. he has an investigation -- excuse me, he arrested a turkish man, who's a friend of the president there. and is charging him with evading the iran sanctions. effectively. which in a complicated scheme that's really big and interesting, and plays into some of the other probes around this president. the big outstanding question everyone is asking is, what is the fbi looking into, involving this administration, potentially, and additionally, there are questions about whether or not they're also looking at rudy giuliani who, again, is at the same firm as the rumored replacement is the front-runner for that, because of giuliani talking on
television prior to the election about what his fbi friends were telling him about investigations involving the clintons and others. which is information they're not conveying. >> there are so many layers to this. >> oh, man. >> but to play devil's advocate, could you just look at this and say that he was simply a victim of a broad brush stroke, that donald trump decided to clean house so that he could just appoint all his own people? >> almost. so the two people whose resignations they didn't accept is the temporary deputy attorney general, and his nominee to be the permanent deputy attorney general. and with the attorney general having now recused those people not so incidentally would be leading in i russian probe in the justice department. you could say this is part of a sweep if they hadn't told bharara that he was staying. what changed and why. they did this with the
ambassador, trump did, back in january. he said no finishing your kids' school year, no finding your replacements, none of that stuff. they seem to like chaos and surprise and corruption maybe in a reality tv style. maybe in a silicon valley disruption style. there are concerns about the deep state and enemies within and all that stuff. i think tactically, they think this sort of chaos works to their benefit. i'm very skeptical, again, they have no replacements for any of these u.s. attorneys. the people they just told to get out today, that their deputies and right hands are going to be running the justice department. >> and picking up the pieces where the investigations left off. thank you for the information and reporting. we're continuing to learn more about this situation. it's a developing breaking news story. let's turn to now a person who is very familiar with bharara who is also familiar with the justice department's inner workings, someone who has led this department.
roberto gonzalez is joining me by phone. we really appreciate your time, mr. gonzalez. i know you were appointed by and served under president george w. bush. and while working for then senator charles schumer when you were in the justice department. bharara also was in the probe in eight u.s. attorneys, part of a controversy that is said to have ultimately played a key role in the resignation of the then attorney general roberto gonzalez, yourself. given that history, what's your response to these developments today? >> well, [ inaudible ]. obviously those were all investigated. i was cleared of any wrongdoing, because in reality, you know, the president of the united states has the power with
respect to hiring and firing of the u.s. attorneys. they serve at his pleasure. if donald trump no longer has any pleasure of continued service, then meet it out. it really is arrogant for an employee to leave, when told by the president that their services are no longer required. everyone understands that you serve at the pleasure of the president, no matter how wonderful, how valuable your work has been. if the president wants to make a change, he has the right to do so. obviously change is at the beginning of an administration. they're very consistent with past practice. and every president, every u.s. attorney general wants to have his field generals and the u.s. attorneys onboard. some of your viewers may be concerned that these removals might in any way jeopardize ongoing investigations. that is really just not the way
that the department is set up. you've got career prosecutors that are very much involved in all of these very complex investigations, and prosecutions. those will continue. even though you may not have an appointed head at the particular field offices. there are career individuals who been there many, many years. they have experience, good judgment. those investigations will continue, irrespective of the removal of the confirmed u.s. attorney head. >> gotcha. now, i understand it is fairly common for a president to come in and appoint his own people. however, the fact that this was done with virtually zero notice has caught some experts in the field offguard. does that piece surprise you, for one? and two, the fact that bharara had been told by the president that he should keep his job and asked to stay on and go before the cameras and even talk about the discussion in which he was asked to stay on, now he's been fired? what do you think is the reason
for that? >> well, i can't speak to what president trump and preet, what conversations they had in the past. the president can change his mind for whatever reason. he has virtually unlimited authority to make a change if he wants to. it could be that perhaps jeff sessions wanted to have a change. if they want to make a change, that will have an important factor in making the change. they ultimately do work for the attorney general of the united states. so listen, i can't speak to whether or not there were any promises or assurances made. but even if there were, nothing would prevent a president from changing his mind if he felt that was in the best interests of the administration of justice. >> would there be any reason that this change of mind has to do with actual investigations that bharara was involved with? >> i'm certainly not aware that
that might be the reason. but as i indicated, i believe if that was the motivation for the removal, i think that would be one of concern. and that perhaps should be looked at. i want to, again, reassure your viewers that even if that were the case, that would not submarine or in any way jeopardize an ongoing investigation. a career individual is there, in that office, they would continue the investigation. and they would make sure that if there was wrongdoing that had occurred, that there would be a prosecution. so it's -- even without a confirmed head leading a particular office, you're still going to have investigations. you're still going to have prosecutions that move forward. that's not jeopardized by the removal of the confirmed u.s. attorney. >> let me ask you in response to this statement put out by senator patrick leahy, where he writes that the removal of something like bharara has now called into question the
independence of the justice department. according to this statement. do you see it that way? >> i do not. senator leahy has been as much involved in the plit tiization of the removal of u.s. attorneys as schumer has. there is no basis to make that statement. again, without even knowing who's going to be the next u.s. attorney in that position. and how that office is going to function going forward. i tha that's a premature statement. >> alberto gonzales, thank you for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. former adviser to four u.s. presidents, david, you've worked in the white house. completely normal as we've been discussing for a new president to come in and want a new team of u.s. attorneys. but the way this was handled has given a lot of people pause. >> it should. it should. there's no question.
there are a couple of things that are different. one is, when in the past when there's been sort of mass firings, as in the case of president clinton, individuals -- attorneys general in various parts of the country were given extra time to stay on to complete investigations to make sure there was no disruption in the work of the offices. and they sort of had leftover time, instead of the hatchet coming down, the guillotine goes down on all of you overnight. the other thing that's different is the context in which this is taking place. we have a president, a white house and a team with a lot of conservatives, who believe that the obama holdover throughout the government had become saboteurs. that they are undermining his presidency. the anger level has built. there's been a lot of pressure on the white house to clean out those obama holdovers. this is, i think, going to be
part of a broader sweep that we're going to see. with all due respect to attorney general gonzales, he's right that the president absolutely has the authority and is often exercising it to remove people. but there is a -- you know, if -- it's just -- i don't think it's right to say you're going to get the same outcome in the investigations as you would if a new person comes in. it's not going to make any difference in the outcomes. if it doesn't make any difference in the outcomes, the president wouldn't be firing these people. the white house believes if you put in new people, you'll have an attorney general that will be more favorably inclined toward them. that's human nature. and i think we all -- the context is how we ought to see this. >> we're just getting this into our newsroom here, some new information, a source apparently close to president trump telling my colleague, jake tapper, that then president-elect trump told bharara wanted to keep him on as
a gesture to democratic leader schumer. but now obviously it swung the other way. what do you make of that? >> well, that sounds like a lot about politics, doesn't it. because the relationship between senator schumer and the president has deteriorated. they've been calling each other names over the last few weeks. i don't think -- i think both of them are now really -- have a very disdain for the other. but why does that mean that bharara ought to be the victim of that disagreement? having asked him to stay on, is it a political gesture to schumer or did he think he was doing productive work. it does lead to questions, your previous guest raised some interesting questions. we'll just have to see. like so many things in the trump administration, when you do things quickly, and this looks like they're flipping a finger at the obama people once again.
you know, it raises questions -- >> but when you talk about that, when you bring that up, one thought that crossed my mind is, it almost seemed like bharara at one point kind of egged him on to say, i'm not going to resign. if you want me to leave, fire me. >> yep. well, i think bharar wanted to bring it to the surface. he's clearly pretty ticked off. the result is the same. but i think he feels, i'm walking out with my head up. i'm not resigning. you have to fire me. and shame on you. i think that's his attitude. >> how would you advise the president to handle this moving forward? >> well, i think the advice you would give would have been given earlier. and that is, as was the ambassadors, i think he has every right to replace people like this. and as we feared the u.s. attorney general in new york, you live by the sword, you die
by the sword. that's the name of the game. so he has every right. but i think i would have advised him, mr. president, i think you would have been better off if you hadn't brought the swift sword down on people. it has a harshness about it that is going to, i think stir up the press. the siegel type questions that we had, it raises questions among their -- you know, out in the political community, what's underneath all of this. is there something phony about this? there's just so much -- every time one of these stories comes up, you have to ask, why is this happening, why couldn't this be done in a smoother, more professional way? >> that question of why is what we've been asking all afternoon, since he was fired. >> right. >> but we're hearing crickets from the white house and justice department. would it be in their best interests to come forward with at least a statement to say, this is why he specifically was now asked to -- or was fired, i
guess, let's just put it bluntly, even after he had been asked to stay on? >> i think the statement really ought to come from the attorney general. mr. sessions, or attorney general sessions did sign off and asked him to stay. he called him during the transition. he's the one who asked people to leave their offices. i think this is something, if you're at the white house now, put it on the justice department to explain what's going on. >> david gergen, thank you, as always. >> anna, thank you. up next, a shocking white house security breach, and the bizarre new details on the intruder who made it all the way to the entrance to the president's residence. you're live in the "cnn newsroom." "how to win at business." step one: point decisively with the arm of your glasses. abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business.
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the president was inside the white house at the time. >> secret service did a fantastic job last night. i appreciate it. the secret service did a fantastic job. it was a troubled person. the secret service was fantastic. >> cnn's athena jones is at the white house. athena, who is this man? what happened when he appeared before the judge today? >> reporter: his name is jonathan tran. he's 26 years old. he's from california. he did make a court appearance today. we're told he will be arraigned in federal court on monday. but at today's court appearance, we're getting a lot of information from the criminal complaint and sworn statement. he's been charged with entering or remaining in restricted grounds while using or carrying a dangerous weapon. this complaint, the sworn statement from the arresting officer that said in the backpack that tran was carrying, he had two cans of mace.
that's interesting, because earlier in the day we were told that backpack had been examined and no hazardous materials were found. in the end we're learning he was caring mace. there are more details from the sworn statement. we know this happened at 11:38 p.m. last night. tran was seen by this arresting officer walking from the east side of the south grounds of the white house complex. he was walking close to an exterior wall of the white house mansion. so he was very, very close to the residence. he was approaching the south portico entrance to the white house mansion, that's on the opposite side of the door that's right behind me. he was wearing a hooded sweater, or a jacket and was carrying that backpack i mentioned. we also know from this arresting officer that at one point tran hid behind a white house pillar before proceeding towards that south portico entrance. now, this is all after the suspect jumped over a fence near
the treasury department which is next to the white house, and over a barrier on the -- separating the south lawn from the narrow road next to it. but yes, this is interesting to see he came very, very close to the residence. he did not make it inside. but he was still only a couple of hundred feed from the president's bedroom. also in that backpack, besides the two cans of mace was a united states passport, an apple laptop computer, a book by president trump, and a letter he had written to president trump. he mentioned russian hackers and said he had information of relevance. he also alleged he had been followed, that his e-mail and phone communications had been read by third parties. he was called schizophrenic. new details coming out about the suspect. >> obviously there was a security failure here, the fact that he got as far as he did without being de tectd. what is the secret service's response? >> well, they're going to have to look at this very closely.
this is not, as you know, the first time that this has taken place. there's been several breaches over the years of the obama administration. you may remember one of the most serious was when in 2014, a man jumped over the fence in the front of the white house, the north fence behind me, and made it through the north portico, which is essentially the front doors of the white house, and all the way into the east room of the white house. and he had a knife in his pocket. you don't want to play the what-if game too much. but it certainly could have been bad had this suspect made it into the white house with these cans of mace, or what have you. very, very serious matter the secret service is going to be reviewing closely. >> athena jones, thank you very much. just ahead, he was one of the most high-profile federal prosecutors in the country. but after refusing to resign, he was just fired by president trump today. a look at all the legal angles next here in the cnn newsroom. i]
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let's dig deeper into the breaking news coverage of president trump's firing of u.s. attorney preet bharara, one of 46 u.s. attorneys asked to resign by the white house yesterday. but he refused. he didn't want to turn in his letter of resignation. this afternoon president trump actually fired him. he said, today i was fired from my position as u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. serving my country as u.s. attorney here for the past seven years will forever be the greatest honor of my professional life. no matter what else i do, or how long i live. cnn senior legala analyst jeffry toobin joins me now. back in november, the president and attorney general, he told him he could stay on as u.s. attorney for southern district
of new york. a source telling jake tapper then president-elect trump told bharara he wanted to keep him on as a gesture to senator schumer. what's your reaction to this development? >> it's important to say that president trump had every legal right to fire preet b hrkharara. it is traditional for a u.s. attorney to be replaced when a new president comes in. what is unusual in this situation, it is really undisputed that president trump promised preet bharara he could stay on. what's puzzle is what caused this turnabout seemingly overnight of why he was told to leave, like all the other u.s. attorneys. it's really, though, more of a political question than a legal question. because there is no question that president trump had the right to force bharara out of
office. >> put into perspective for us, preet bharara and the position that he holds. what makes him in this position so important? >> well, here's what's so significant, is that the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york, which is based in manhattan, is widely acknowledged to be the premier u.s. attorney's office in the country. and they have a lot of independence. and what's particularly significant here is that he has been involved in a lot of investigations that are at least peripherally related to donald trump. he was the u.s. attorney who was investigating anthony weiner whose computer turned up the e-mails that wound up leading jim comey to make those very damaging statements about hillary clinton shortly before the election. he's also apparently involved in some investigations that involve
the trump organization. and russia, these various amorphous stories that keep coming out about the relationship between the trump campaign and russia. so the question arises, is there something either that the trump administration doesn't want preet bharara to pursue, or are there things he knows that he might disclose later that could be troublesome for the trump administration. >> well, isn't firing him one way, though, for him to later disclose that information? or wouldn't that be even more reason for bharara to perhaps give a bad eye to the president? >> that's a fair question. in a political context. but, you know, preet bharara whom i profiled for the new y"n yorke yorker", he does respect the rules. there are rules how much he can disclose about what he has been investigating.
by taking him out of the justice department, he is -- you know, he's cut off from access to new information. but there is some question about how much he can and would disclose simply as a private citizen. >> got you. you brought up the politicizization of all of this. and the justice department itself. the gop has been complaining about that. is this just fueling the fire when it comes to questions about that? >> it certainly will fuel the fire. you know, just a day ago, sean hanity on fox news, who is obviously close to the administration said, boy, it's time to get rid of all the clinton appointees to the justice department. and the next day, that's exactly
what attorney general sessions and president trump did. now, perhaps that's just a coincidence. but there certainly has been coming out of the trump administration a great deal of bitterness and anger towards anyone they feel is connected to barack obama, or they feel may have been leaking. they certainly know evidence that barack obama, that preet bharara was leaking this information. but, you know, the political controversy about leaks, and about trump's anger at obama certainly will be fanned by this. but i do think it's important to repeat that this is not a question whether donald trump had the right to do this. he certainly had the right to request the resignation, and to fire preet b hrkts arara when he
refused to leave. >> your article that you wrote and referenced earlier is called "the man who terrifies wall street." the fact that wall street feared him, and trump's relation to wall street, appointing billionaires to cabinet positions. do you have any sense of who he might put in this position to now replace bharara? would it be somebody who would have an equally tough perspective in terms of approaching wall street issues? >> hard to know. hard to know. the name that has been mentioned most recently in new york circles is martin, the son of judgment mucasi, who was the attorney general under george w. bush. and someone who is very strongly identified as a republican. someone who is much closer
politically to donald trump. he's also a former prosecutor in the southern district, so he's not a -- you know, a political hack. but he's certainly someone much closer to the administration. if he's appointed, you can be sure that people will say that donald trump is putting in a republican loyalist. but, you know, it is up to donald trump to make these appointments. it is also true that the senate has to vote on u.s. attorneys. you can be sure there will be hearings about whoever donald trump puts in. and democrats will be asking whether he has the independence that is traditionally associated with the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york. >> jeffrey toobin, thank you so much for joining us. gra great to talk to you on a saturday night. with the shortage of priests in the catholic church, pope francis now says he has another idea to fix that, next. in the cnn newsroom. with my moderate to severe crohn's disease,...
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in a pretty stunning move, pope francis said he may be open to letting married men become priests. this idea could be a solution to what he calls a, quote, enormous problem within the catholic church. a shortage of priests. joining me now to talk about this is cnn religion commentator father edward beck. thank you for being here. first, your reaction to this latest move? >> i think it's hopeful. i think it's something we need, those of us who are priests have been hoping for it for a while. there is a vocation shortage. i know guys who have left the priesthood to get married. this is a major obstacle for them. i think it just kind of frees people up to say, why not look at this. for the first thousand years of the church, priests could be married. it changed because priests were kind of giving property to their children, church property. so it was a sociopolitical reason. >> it wasn't about celibacy,
or -- >> you know, we spiritualized that afterward and said you could be more devoted to your parishioners, more devoted to your ministry. really, it was sociopolitical. >> i didn't realize that, as a catholic myself. so some of these moves are teaching me more about the history of the faith as we move into modern times. when you look, though, at this move, i think one of the things i've read that could be even more controversial about it is the fact that what he is considering doesn't necessarily open the door for current priests to go get married, right. >> right. it seems to some of us like a bit of a double standard. in other words, if you can be a married priest, you can be a married priest, what's the difference if you get married after you're a priest or happen to be married before and become a priest. we have priests from protestant traditions coming into roman catholicism with their wives and children. and ministering along celibate roman catholic priests. you're in the same parish with a
priest with kids. you're thinking, why can't i do this. i think the pope is intent on opening the door slowly. but i think we have to be consistent here. if there's not an obstacle to priesthood because of marriage, then why not anyone who is married, why can't they be a priest. well, it needs to be a remote area. >> why not allow women to be priests then? >> that's a whole other question. the question with women would say, there were not women disciples, and jesus did not choose women. >> no history for it. >> but the apostles were married. because the original apostles were married. there were women deace deacones. today is different. why not consider it. this pope has closed the door right now to women priests, but hoe's opening the door to married priests.
for all of us, that's a hopeful step. little by little. >> how big of a shortage is there? is that the impetus for these changes? >> it's a really bad shortage right now. western europe has been decimated. the united states. africa, asia, there is vocation. now we're getting sent priests from those areas of the world to help supplement our shortage. we yuksed to send missionaries elsewhere, now they're spiendin priests to us. >> why the shortage? >> i can't tell you how many parents have said to me, i really wouldn't recommend my child, my son be a priest. i think there are so many opportunities right now. look at the priest scandal, the sex scandal, that put a mar on the priesthood. people are saying, why would i want to get my child involved in all of that. we have to do a lot of reeducation, a lot of reimagining. i think we have to open the door and say, this is what a
modern-day priesthood looks like for a modern-day catholic. the church unfortunately moves really slowly. if parents were to promote it, i think if it was spoken about more, those of us who are happy priests and have great ministries, we could share that more. but it's an uphill climb right now. look, i can do ministry as a single person or married person, why do i have to be a priest and give up anything. if this says i can be married and be a priest, maybe not so bad. >> you never know. >> you never know. >> father edward beck, thank you so much. >> thank you. my pleasure. >> we see a lot of the moving and shaking that pope francis has done as he moves the religion forward. coming up, it was an officer who became a hero during the sikh temple massacre. he shares his story. how he went beyond the call of duty and survived being shot 15 times at close range. here's to the wildcats 'til we die...
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the first officer to respond to the 2012 sikh temple massacre is share iing his story. somehow, lieutenant brian murphy survive d being shot 15 times ad spoke with sara sidner in this edition of beyond the call of duty. >> by all accounts, brian murphy should be dead. >> first shot was at my face. second, thumb, back of the head. right hand. one in the right arm. three in the left hand ch one in each leg. one in the chest. one in the side and one in the back. >> his dash cam rolling, he was the first on the scene as calls poured in from the sikh temple of wisconsin. >> guy shooting. >> we heard fighting outside.
i brought the kids in my hand. i said, let's go in the -- >> she was among 15 women and children huddle ed in this pant, fearing death. her husband, the president of the temple, rushed out to warn people. he was shot and killed along with five others. the shooter, a white supremacist and army veteran on a mission of hate was still at it when lieutenant murphy rolled up. that's murphy there and that's page, gun raised. >> we both shoot exactly the same time. >> what happens? >> i missed! murphy was hit in tface. that's him ducking. >> about halfway through, i'm just got mad. i'm thinking when are you going to be done shooting me? >> how are you not dead? >> god kept me around. >> another officer drives up. >> paige shoot, hitting the
windshield of bun gun battle. by then, murphy's vest and body are riddled with 15 bullets. a year later, a survivor aed. >> how many dids did how you ghet shot. >> that's right, one bullet for every one of us inside. >> community says without his sacrifice, the massacre would have been so much worse. >> i know that murphy is a hero. he's a hero to our community, but much larger community as in the sikh community. in america. >> a community murphy still worries about knowing they are sometimes targets. simply because of their appearance. sara sidner, cnn, milwaukee. >> amazing. good to see him doing okay. up next, new details about the man who jumped a fence at the white house while president trump was in the residence. what he was carrying and the charges he's now facing. you're live in the cnn news room. is being condensed
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fbi before he fired him last february. setting off a new round of questions about whether the president's actions amount to obstruction of justice. >> well, if you take the president's own statement, his tweet that he knew michael flynn was lying to the fbi when he fired him, which means that he knew michael flynn had committed a felony when he asked comey to stop the investigation. and when he fired comey when he refused to do so and when he fired sally yates and when he called michael flynn in april to tell him to stay strong. all of these acts are to impede and obstruct justice. >> a source close to the white house acknowledging the severity of the misstep to "the washington post" which writes a person close to the white house involved in the case turned the saturday tweet a screw up of historic proportions that has caused enormous consternation in
to in legal circles about whether or not a lawyer would have sent a tweet or even dictated a tweet like the one that came from the president's feed on saturday. >> i think that's why a lot of people find this to be so remarkable, the motion that the president's lawyer would potentially get the president into more legal jeopardy. but john dowd, the president's lawyer over the weekend was very insistent he was the one who dictated this tweet to the social media director. he also acknowledges, as you pointed out, he essentially conflated two things that had previously been set by the president's special counsel ty cobb that mike flynn lied to not only the vice present but to the fbi as well. so there's been a fair amount of damage control over the weekend and throughout the day. but it's also just very striking this new argument that john dowd is making which is that the president cannot commit obstruction of justice.
argument that's very reminiscent of what richard nixon once says after leaving office. if the president does it, it's not illegal. it's not a crime. of course, that's an argument that hasn't been accepted in the past by an awful lot of people including the house of representatives which in the nixon case and bill clinton case included obstruction of justice among the articles of impeachment that they lodged against the presidents in those questions. now whether you can charge obstruction in a court of law may be a different thing. given that a president is in office and impeachment is the main remedy for what we'd call high crimes and misdemeanors, the house has clearly made clear it does consider obstruction to be something the president can be held accountable for. whether these actions count as obstruction of justice or not is a different question. that's something that is still up for debate. but it is funny to say or it is unusual to say that a president is simply, by virtue of being president, immune from the charges to begin with.
matt, let me bring you in here. you have been doing -- you have an incredible body of reporting around these questions. i want to ask you specifically about what we learned over the weekend about flynn's crime. we learned that flynn was charged with lying to the fbi, but in those charging documents, we learned that he was very far from some sort of rogue actor and i think we've learned since our program that his e-mails were in communication with k.t. mcfarland. a campaign aide and also getting direction from jared kushner. i believe your byline was on this story. "new york times," e-mails dispute white house claims that flynn acted independently on russia. mr. trump and his aides have suggested that his concern about flynn's potential legal jeopardy was influenced by the president's admiration for his former national security adviser. but the new details underscore the possibility that the
president may have been worried not just about mr. flynn but also about whether any investigation might reach into the white house and perhaps the oval office. this seems to get at the heart of the question that remains unknown which is why? why did mike flynn lie to the fbi about his russia contacts? any new leads today? >> yeah, no, you're absolutely right. because it's not clear that if mike flynn had said to the fbi or even to the vice president, yeah, i talked to the russian ambassador and told him to just cool his jets and don't worry about these new obama sanctions. we'll get into office and take care of this. it's not clear if he had said that that there would have really been a problem. now there's this theoretical logan act violation, which is never successfully been used to prosecute somebody which is this idea that private citizens can't be negotiating against the interests of the united states.
so if flynn had been truthful, would we have been in this boat? i'm not sure because there were a great many people in the transition who wanted to calm the russians down. because the russians were key to their foreign policy going forward. >> and ken dilanian, let me bring you in on this specific thread and ask you where the investigation into what the president knew and when he knew it stands right now. >> well, just to pick up on what matt was saying, bob bauer has an interesting column today in which he seems to argue that the reason flynn lied is because president trump may have told him to lie. obviously, that's an allegation unproven but he theorizes it's implausible that donald trump didn't know that mike flynn was going and talking to the russians about sanctions given that others on the campaign team knew and were staffing donald trump in mar-a-lago. that's, obviously, an open question for us, but, you know, bob mueller knows the answer to it because mike flynn had to offer a proffer before he made
the sweetheart deal to plead guilty to one felony charge and explain to the special counsel what he would testify to. not in every detail but in the broad strokes. and so to the extent that mike flynn knows anything about the trump campaign and collusion. he was involved to try to get hackers to find hillary clinton's missing e-mails? all of that is something robert mueller knows the details on and the only question is filling in the blanks, continuing to investigate. mike flynn knows whether jared kushner told the truth. he knows a lot and now as somebody else said, he gets up every day wondering how to please robert mueller and that cannot be a good thing for this white house. >> two more men who may wake up every day wondering how to please robert mueller are the white house counsel don mcgahn and the president's son-in-law jared kushner. let me read this from "the washington post" and we'll talk about it. the post writing, inside the secretive nerve center of the mueller investigation. the stelts morning arrival thursday, last thursday, white house counsel don mcgahn became
the latest in a string of high-level witnesses to enter the secretive nerve center of special counsel robert s. mueller's investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election. 20 hours later, mueller and his team emerged into public view to rattle washington with a dramatic announcement that former national security adviser michael flynn would plead guilty to lying to the fbi. mb g mcgann was scheduled to return friday but they postponed it to allow mcgann to help the white house manage the response to flynn's plea. as ken and matt have suggested, bob mueller knows exactly what don mcgahn told donald trump unless, i guess it's always possible he's exerted some sort of privilege suggesting his conversation is with the president, his client would be privileged. but it is likely that with mueller getting closer and closer to the president himself, we will find out in pretty short order what -- if the president's
tweet over the weekend saying that he was aware that mike flynn had lied to the fbi was something that don mcgahn had told him or not. how worried are all of these senior aides who were sort of in the vortex of this house of mirrors if you will, about whether or not they can simply keep their stories straight from one another's. >> officially, of course, the line here at the white house is that they're not worried. there's nothing to be worried about. the point that you make about don mcgahn raises two other issues. one, you have a number of the president's top advisers going in to talk to robert mueller. and we've been told that's going to happen in the coming weeks. number two, the fact that he had friday to come back and deal with the bombshell that flynn had plead guilty to lying to the fbi. i spoke to one source who is close to the president who called that development a very, very, very bad development. essentially acknowledging what the white house, what the
president's legal team won't say officially which is that, look, this is getting much closer to the west wing, to the president. now again, and i want to stress this point, the president's legal team says, look, michael flynn can't say anything damaging to the president because he doesn't know anything damaging. but there are concerned that even if you believe that line of thought, nicolle, there are concerns about what michael flynn might say to robert mueller. so i think the point can't be underscored enough. this is getting closer and closer to the president and that is making life very complicated for all of the top advisers here at the white house. >> peter baker, let me play you something. i've heard one of the concerns that the -- not just this current legal team but the legal teams past that have tried to serve this president in this investigation have had is that they're not always sure that they're getting the full story from the president and they're not always sure they're getting it first. this was the president with
lester holt. >> because my white house counsel don mcgahn came back to me and did not sound like an emergency of any -- didn't make it sound like he was, you know, and she actually didn't make it sound that way either in the hearings the other day like it had to be done immediately. this man has served for many years. he's a general. he's -- in my opinion, a very good person. i believe that it would be very unfair to hear from somebody who we don't even know and immediately run out and fire a general. >> what's so remarkable about that is, we now are going to have a conversation -- bob mueller is certainly investigating what the white house did after sally yates came to don mcgahn, white house counsel and said, hey, mike flynn is a potential target for blackmail from the russians. if you believe the president's twitter feed, he also learned at some point that mike flynn had lied to the fbi, even though
sally yates testified to congress that that's not exactly what she said to don mcgahn. but they have in the president someone who conflates interactions. someone who projects onto interactions certain things. i can't imagine that anyone in this white house is going to testify under oath or to bob mueller's investigators that there was nothing to worry about. they've been warned that flynn was a potential target for blackmail by russians. i imagine the things they did from that moment until the day he was fired are very much under close, close scrutiny. >> you are exactly right. a couple weeks and it was only after it was publicized in "the washington post" that they did fire general flynn at that point which, of course, always raised the question of why alarm bells didn't go off and why they didn't take it more seriously in a quicker fashion. it was the very first days of the administration. and they were busy and consumed by lots of different things. a lot of fires going.
some of which they had set themselves. and, you know, clearly they had not focused on this the way they would, you know, in hindsight the way you'd say they probably should have. mike flynn was there for 24 days in office. he's presumably going to have something because the special prosecutor isn't going to get him off a single charge like this given how much other evidence he seems to have accumulated unless he's getting something of value. the something of value would have to be during the campaign, the transition and during those 24 days. >> matt, i'm going to play chris ruddy but you'll understand why i'm doing this after. let's watch and talk about it on the other side. >> at the end of the day, my view is that robert mueller poses an existential threat to the trump presidency. he's gotten four major, two conviction, two plea agreements, lightning speed. >> that was one of the president's closest friends,
somebody he's known to talk to regularly. he's of news max, news organization. not really someone who would be predisposed to admire anything about bob mueller, but he described him as moving at lightning speed with four major, two convictions, two three agreements. so it's undeniable that bob mueller is working with some urgency to get to the bottom of this. >> yeah, and just look at what the white house is saying in response to these moves by bob mueller. they're saying, look. all these charges show no collusion. and, see, i'm totally exonerated. but that's the corner that this white house has been boxed into. their former national security adviser is under -- pleaded guilty. their former campaign chairman is under indictment. two former aides have been charged. there were not even a year into this administration. if the best argument you can make is, see, we're not in
cohoots with the russians to tip the, leks, it shows how much defense they're having to play here. bob mueller is looming large. the white house very much wants to get through this period at the end of the year where their senior staff are being interviewed. they very much want to be able to turn this around on bob mueller and say you've enjoyed everybody at the white house. you've done what you need to do. tell us we're not the focus. move on to whatever you need to do next. that's what they're hoping for. >> what are the odds of that happening? >> not very good. i think these white house interviews are about the obstruction of justice strand of the investigation which probably would not take as long as the collusion strand which is going to take a lot longer because in order to make that case, he may need the testimony of paul manafort. paul manafort may want to go to trial and that could take a year. it feels like there's a lot left to gathor the question of, did senior members of the trump campaign knowingly collude with the russian effort.
i don't think that's going to wrap up any time soon. >> the tweets will go on and on and on. >> kristen welker, ken dilanian, matt and peter baker, thank you. the law & order president rips the fbi. the assault on the top law enforcement agency and part of a disturbing pattern of seeking to destroy the credibility of anyone or any institution that doesn't bend to his will. and all in for roy moore. donald trump finally leading, but on behalf of a man accused of sexual misconduct by more than nine women, including one who was 14 years old. we'll show you who is following the president's lead just eight days out from election day. stay with us. your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement
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for an untraditional white house that serves a convention-busting president, there was something very traditional to be surmised in mike flynn's court documents on friday. when it came to what message to pass on to russian ambassador sergey kislyak about russian sanctions, mike flynn called his deputy katie mcfarland. when it came to what to tell the russians and others about a u.n. resolution about israel, flynn consulted jared kushner. flynn was not a free agent. he had not, to borrow a phrase, gone rogue. "the new york times" reporting, mr. flynn was in close touch with other senior members of the trump transition team both before and after he spoke with the russian ambassador sergey kislyak about american sanctions against russia. joining our panel today, kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the boston herald, now an nbc
contributor. michael steele, former chairman of the rnc. jason johnson, msnbc contribute our and amy stoddard, associate editor and columnist for real clear politics. let me start with you, chairman steele. this mike flynn fantasy that he was some rogue actor, some guy who lied but didn't have to does not compute. glen kessler from the post tweeted it's worth keeping in mind that flynn served in the military for 33 years and was trained to follow orders in a chain of command. >> and that's the key thing right there. given his closeness to the president, then candidate trump, there's no way he'd go outside of that bubble on a rogue mission on his own to act on behalf of or in the interest of donald trump without someone senior, if not donald trump himself, signing off on his actions. that is the nature of the man. that is how he's approached these things, and i think it's one of the key things that
mueller and his investigation teed off on in the very first instance. if you go back to the beginning of this, flynn has been a key player because he, of all the people outside of his family, trump's family, was the closest to the man. >> you convinced me in the makeup room where all the magic happens before the show that there may be some questionable storytelling about who authored that now controversial tweet on saturday saying that the president had to fire flynn because he lied to the vice president. and the fbi. you don't think for a minute that dowd wrote it? >> the probability that a lawyer protecting the president of the united states would author, i don't know if you pen or type a tweet, an incriminating tweet to get his boss in trouble. >> like how dumb are we? how dumb do you think we are? >> after consult with my lawyer frinds i've learned lay peel like us use the word plead.
john dowd would not have -- >> i was hacked. it wasn't me. >> that was anthony weiner's first response. someone else found this. like it doesn't -- it just strains any sense of credibility. we know this president. no one tells him what to say when it comes to twitter, otherwise they would have snatched it out of his hands eight months popping clearly this was him. he has a record of saying incriminating things. if this was just about the president incriminating himself and making clear he was engaging in obstruction of justice. mueller is going for something more. if we go by the president's words himself, he pretty much is in trouble. >> he wants it to stick. >> he's dealing in a fact-free zone. kimberly, let me bring you in on the question of the overlap because we have all of the people on the right saying, look, friday was an awesome day
for the president. no russian collusion. well, we don't know that. and the big whopper of a lie that we do know about was about russian collusion. it may have been bungled but it was about that meeting in trump tower. the big whopper of a lie told by the president and the only known unknown is who else was aware of the fact they were telling a lie. and not that it's a crime to lie to the press but this was sort of the ease with which -- and you're talking about all of them -- now john dowd his lawyers is involved in the lie about who sent out the tweet. how many white house aides could be incriminated just in the false statements about russia which could lead mueller to the doorstep of russian collusion. >> there was nothing exculpatory about what happened last week. all we know is there was one time that michael flynn lied, that he admitted to. we don't know all the other times he may have lied. we don't know who else may have
lied. we only know this as a tool used by robert mueller and its investigators to get to the bottom of everything that going on. it's more what we don't know. we have found incidents time after time after time where people in this administration are caught in bald-faced lies. like lying is something that happens with a fair amount of ease in this organization. so again, lying in itself is not necessarily illegal. but if you are covering something up, if you are consistently lying in order to cover something up. and the big question is, why did michael flynn lie about these -- his connections to ambassador kislyak. what was he trying to cover up at that time that was going on in order to -- in the first plaus? >> i worked in the white house. if you have k.t. mcfarland and jared kushner calling the plays on what should be commune kated with sergey kislyak, a meeting has been had. and the only question -- and the only question is, was the president in the room? >> yeah. >> it's pretty much the only
thing at this point. impossible tong think he wasn' aware of it. this is the other thing about flynn and whether it was just this one lie. we thought when papadopoulos got busted, that was bad enough. he had been wearing a wire. but between papadopoulos and now flynn, you can almost triangulate on anybody in this administration. like i know you talked to one of these guys. whenever you tell me, i can run it past either of these people and see if it's true. the noose is really getting tighter on so many different people and you can't keep pretending you weren't at meetings that everyone knows happened. >> as that noose tightens, individuals want to loosen it a little bit to include somebody else's neck. >> people now facing questions but are not really being scrutinized too much by the media are don mcgahn, white house counsel, who was in receipt of information -- here's what we knee know. he received information from sally yates. he was told mike flynn could be a target for blackmail from the
russians. based on the president's tweet is suggests don mcgahn, and the tape i justice showed you from the president's comments to lester holt, it suggests the president believes don mcgahn is the person who shared information with him about mike flynn's other potential legal or criminal liabilities. we don't know the extent of that. another name is rick dearborn. there's an article about how these may have been bungled contacts but contact in coordination with russia was attempted. "the new york times" reporting operative offered trump campaign kremlin connection using nra ties. wow. a conservative operative trumpeting his close ties to the national rifle association and russia told a trump campaign adviser last year that he could arrange a back channel meeting between donald trump and vladimir putin. the russian president, according to an e-mail sent to the trump campaign. that aide is another sitting staffer. the staff has to have a lot of
long lunches with lrawyers on k-street. >> they're running out of lawyers not already booked in this case. this is the thing if you look at the way the president talks about world leaders of any nation all over the globe, with the exception of vladimir putin and russia. if you look at 51, i think the count is now, of official contacts with trump campaign or trump administration with russians. it just doesn't sound like this was an energetic reset attempt with the russians. it sounds like more. the other thing is, if you look at that -- >> what do you mean more? it doesn't sound like a policy shift? it sounds -- >> we don't have evidence of collusion, but -- >> take collusion out of it. bungled coordination. >> way more than an attempt to just have a good relationship with russia starting on january 20 ppt the speculation now and the curiosity about that discussion between sally yates,
then still at doj and don mcgahn, where she relays this about flynn, is that he was actually in more danger than a violation of the logan act which in your first segment you talk about -- people have not been prosecuted under that. as someone who not only worked in the military but at the highest levels of the national security apparatus, flynn would know those conversations with the ambassador would be recorded and he probably could tell the fbi about them without lying. if he was saying, look, we're anti-sanction. it's on the cover of every paper. this isn't news. it's not a secret. the idea of him lying to the fbi, the idea of sally yates saying he could be compromised and the subject of blackmail is probably about something that is larger than a logan act violation. >> you agree with that? >> completely. there would be nothing wrong, they said throughout the campaign, we just want a better campaign with russia. >> donald trump said americans
are killers, too. his putin love knew no limits, michael steele. >> i don't know what the fascination is with putin, but he's got it bad, really bad. and i think it could be this thing that really, in the end, vexes him to the point where he'll be standing in front of the american people going -- he just won't have an explanation and that's why mueller is so important here because mueller is the one who is going to give context and explanation for a lot of this. >> that picture is going to be filled in eventually. we're following breaking news at the supreme court which has just ruled that the trump administration can enforce the travel ban. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is standing by outside the supreme court. pete? >> this is version three of the so-called travel ban. this was announced in late september. this was the new restrictions on visas from certain countries. for the most part it continued the travel ban except puts an additional restriction on north korea, venezuela and other
countries. and after it began to be enforced, the lower courts in hawaii and maryland said it couldn't be enforced against close family members. grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. today the supreme court lifted that restriction allowing the government to enforce it completely. no exception for family members. only two justices, ruth bader ginsburg and sonia sotomayor said they would have kept those in place. >> this is a huge victory for the president but he has says this version doesn't go far enough. he likes version 1.0 and 2.0 better. does this give him some legal footing to go back to those more severe bans? >> no, i don't think so. those more severe bans are, to a large extent, a dead letter. but what i do think is the -- remember it was the supreme court that initially upheld the family restriction on theole travel ban. and said you had to have a restriction for close family members. now they're saying you don't.
this may be a sign that this latest version of the travel restriction, this visa ban which the government put in place after carefully checking how every country in the world handles the visa application for people who want to come here. it may be a sign that the supreme court is going to be much easier on the administration when this case gets here. it's a good sign for the administration, i think. >> did it come down simply seeing this as something that was clearly a president's -- any president's authority to do? >> we don't know because all -- it was a very brief order. it simply said the request for a stay on these injunctions is granted, and we'll see how it plays out in the lower courts. when it gets up here, the supreme court said we'll take a second look at it but they didn't give any reason for what they did today. >> pete williams at the supreme court, thank you. kimberly atkins, any surprise? >> i think that is a little surprising. we did see, as you says, in the past, particularly this one
restriction that the grandmother exception that it seemed overly broad and they left thatta -- allowed feem continue to do that. in that sense it's a bit of a surprise. last week the retweets of these purported anti-muslim videos, the first thing i thought of is that's going to make it harder for the administration to say we're not anti-muslim. we're doing this for national security. it seemed to be a big blow to that case. it may still be at the lower court about the fact the supreme court is going in the opposite direction is good news for the white house. >> and some courts have suggested that the president's tweets get to his state of mind but obviously not this supreme court. the fbi defends itself from the law & order president who spent the weekend and today smearing them. you won't want to miss this.
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among the most alarming tweets from the president this weekend, this one. after years of comey with the phony dishonest clinton investigation and more, running the fbi, its reputation is in tatters. we'll bring it back to greatness. that brought about swift condemnation from folks who know the fbi best from sally yates -- the fbi is in tatters? no. the only thing in tatters is the president's respect for the rule of law. the dedicated men and women of the fbi deserve better. this from former ag, eric holder. nope, not letting this go. the fbi's reputation is not in tatters. it's composed of the same dedicated men and women who have always worked there and do a great apolitical job. you'll find integrity and honesty at the fbi and not at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. the president railing against what sounds like every man and woman who serves in the fbi. >> and the idea, irrespective of
those individuals who put their life on the line and serving communities across the country, this is all about how he wants to create a narrative around these institutions of government and culture and society. and have -- reshaped in his image, in his mind thought if you will. people look at them the same way he does. the idea starting with the media. now a significant number of americans think the media are not good for america, anti-americans. and the only way it stops is if people just stop injefgesting t crazy and push back on it and call it what it really is. >> what is it? >> what it is is a president who is unhinged when it comes to these things. he see the world through his perspective centered around one person and one person only. it's about him. not about the leadership at the fbi, not -- >> a former diplomat said if an fbi agent gets hurt, this can be
traced back to donald trump. i heard that from former diplomatic security when he retweeted the anti-muslim videos. i've heard that from a lot of campaign reporters on the road with him when they were screaming and spitting at the press pen. we made a list of all the institutions and independent agencies. it's the fbi, the free press, independent judiciary, diplomats, including his own top diplomat, rex tillerson. i guess he called him a moron. maybe that one stands equal. congress. all the congressional leaders and political opponents like hillary clinton. i want to read something from "the new york times" which wrote in an editorial. he's casting the men and women of the fbi as unreliable if not worse, just as he has previously done with cia agents, federal judges, scientists, congressional budget office analysts and journalists among others. the president wants to undercut just about anybody who is an independent source of information. it's a classic tactic of autocrats who people -- as
people who have spent time in modern russia, china or venezuela can tell you. the attacks on institution that check his power continue. amy, what do we do? >> oh, i don't have that answer for you, but i can tell you this. i think, obviously, in the campaign, his own supporters knew he had authoritarian impulses and voted for him anyway. he won this election by 77,000 votes against a very flawed candidate who i think skirted the law herself. and here we are. but he continues to speak to a third of the country with a very passionate authoritarian style. and the courts, the congress, the constitution be damned if it's the wrong day for any of those. i will say that i can only imagine the republican lawmakers that i have covered all these years and know well, michael, how loudly they would be screaming if barack obama went after the fbi and eric holder
did not stand up for them. it is really quite a day for jeff sessions to be hiding in excellence. number one -- and i'm not sticking up for comey, but this is something to think about. a year ago the guardian reported in november of 2016 that the fbi was completely pro-trump and anti-hillary. and they thought she was a corrupt criminal. if you look back, the reason that comey made all these mistakes and soiled his reputation is because even though you're not supposed to comment on cases he was worried that leaks would come out about him closing that case which is why he gave the july 5th press conference. later he had the october 11th, i think it was, letter. both times he stepped in it because he was so terrified of his own political skin that letter on, leaks would come out from the fbi, people who were anti-hillary. so at that time, obviously, the trump campaign was very pro-fbi. but i think it's a really sad day for jeff sessions and chris ray at the fbi and the doj that they can't stick up for these
men and women? >> where is chris ray, jeff sessions? these men and women carry out missions directed by the director of the fbi who was, i think, confirmed 100 to nothing. and part of the reason we're here is also because of what you just said. the people thought hillary's private e-mail server was the same as donald trump's assault on democracy. it is not. it's just a bad thing. >> and at this point, it's not autocratic impulses. this is goals. we're all hanging by this thread that one day we won't have a saturday night massacre. he's just going to get rid of mueller and the republicans in congress will twiddle their thumbs and say we should have done something about it. two things are problem 80. it's not just attacking these and saying i am the law. i can command everything one way or another. but it's this weird way the president sort of turns all politics into this m.c. esher
painting. you have liberals cheering for the fbi, an organization that's gone after -- and so people don't know who they can support because this is a dangerous president. so all of this, i -- it confuses public discourse, endangers our democracy and makes it problematic to know who our real allies are. >> make something of these, our top diplomats apolitical, putting them on team america and leaving donald trump over here trying to get vladimir putin's abs? >> that may be the case if it wasn't such damage being done. you have, look, donald trump, when he tweets and makes these statements, two audiences in mind. himself and his most ardent supporters. he doesn't care what other people think about them. he doesn't care what the effects of them are. if you have a substantial percentage of the american people who think the fbi is a political organization just out to get him and it's corrupt and part of the swamp, if you have
people when he tweeted those videos. he didn't consider what was that going to do to his muslim ban case or relationship with the uk, one of our most important allies. or american diplomats. he doesn't think about any of that. he is pushing it back, identifying an enemy who was a problem for him and i don't think he cares about the consequences or at very least doesn't think about them. >> he doesn't think. but when we come back, going all in on roy moore. donald trump throws his full support behind the accused sexual molester and the senate majority leader walks back his opposition. and a republican who thinks this is just going to blow over is sadly mistaken. we'll bring you the latest on that alabama race. (avo) when you have type 2 diabetes, you manage your a1c, but you also have a higher risk of heart attack or stroke. non-insulin victoza® lowers a1c, and now reduces cardiovascular risk. victoza® lowers my a1c and blood sugar better than the leading branded pill.
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allegations to be true? >> i believe the women, yes. >> then how could you let the people of alabama decide? the president today made it official endorsing roy moore, and it's worth reminding our audience, moore has been accused of sexual misconduct with multiple teenaged girls. michael steele where are we? what is happening. i'll read your tweet. it's depressing me. your tweet made me feel better. your refusal to acknowledge you just endorsed a pedophile for the vote is a real -- >> yes. i wish republicans would find something of a backbone or any other anatomy part to allow them to say the real thing. a dear price to pay for the party next year. women and men around the country are looking at this going i cannot believe that you value the vote of a pedophile over
leading this country, over protecting women, who finally are finding their voice to come out and speak to these types of behaviors and the aggression against them, and this political party, which has stood on the moral high ground for lo these 30-plus years, sanctimoniously telling people how to live their lives, should do and shouldn't do, sank moectimoniously judgin people because are where they live, now can sit back and say, we want people to decide what they want to do. really? this is it? >> we used to be part of that party, and how did it come to this? i agree with you. all of those trespasses led to this being in women's uteruses, telling people who to marry and who to love what to do in the bedrooms put us on this corrupt panel. the least conservatives things we did as a party. conservatism means out of my life. what i thought it meant when i
as young and impressionable. how did we get here. because over a period of time we've ignored the base. when they were saying, you promised a., b. and the c., we didn't do it. leadership didn't do it. that was a cauldron boiling and then the leadership decided to get down with the money, get down with the deals, with different relationships that took us on a pathway that here we are now. there is no anchor. there's no more anchor to the party that allows it to look at what the president is saying and has done in this regard and say, wait a minute. that's not who we are. we saw that when the president came down that escalator, stood before the american people and called out the mexican-american community talking about rapist and whatnot. we had a document. oh, no. we'll have a different relationship with latin-americans and all americans of hispanic origin. oh, no. toss it out of the window because that bright, shining object represented by trump was more alluring and more promising
than actually going out and committing yourself to the american people. >> there's another aspect to this, too. donald trump and roy moore wouldn't are doubling down on this if they didn't think they could win. >> right. >> so that's the problem. you have a lot of people -- i stalk to people who say, you don't like mcconnell, and we don't like that mitch mcconnell is telling the people of alabama what to do. that makes me support roy moore even more. these things are probably fake. it's fake news. it there wasn't a contingent of the elech tlctorate that would up this kind of things -- >> seems like the ultimate day of reckoning for the smear that was fake news. if donald trump smears the media long enough, the media told their neighbor, roy moore molested that are child when they were 14, they won't believe them. >> more basic. look at voters down in alabama, a lot of people in this country, you have to understand from an electoral standpoint a lot of
conservative republicans already think the democratic party is inherently immoral, the party of sharia law and black lives matter and gay marriage. there are people who believe two adult men having a consensual relationship is more offensive than what roy moore was accused of. to those people voting for him is still a better decision. >> i make that case for tribalism. the ones that do believe the allegations still would never vote for a democrat. choosing that. >> exactexactly. >> i argue what they did for bill clinton and ted kennedy, no one trying to stop the fact tribalism prevail, neither party. >> sneak in one more break and belong be right back. to reach your business goals it takes more than buzz words. it takes tools. tools to help you work smarter on "your business" we'll focus on techniques to attract customers and drive growth. getting you and your business to the next level.
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for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who've had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can do more with my family. talk to your doctor today. see if lyrica can help. may be crazy, sending roy moore to the senate is the craziest idea. what happens if he wins? >> goes to the senate, serves as a united states senator. >> no. >> yes.
to meet with kim jong un. i don't expect that kim jong un would come to the united states because he might fear that he would be thrown in american jail and never see the light of dayat ever again.ro not that that would happen. n so it may be that they choose potentially south korea right there along the border in panmunjom which would be thehe site of the talks between south korea's president moon jae-in and kim jong un later in may. or maybe it's a third country, some neutral country somewhere else in the world where everyone can meet. how did we get to this point? the white house just walking us through that in a conference call right now, but chung eui-young is the south korean national security advisor, said in a statement outside the white house here that it was due to president trump's program of maximum pressure that north korea came to the table. they said that while kim is committed to the denuclearization of the korean peninsula, he also understands the joint military exercises between south korea and the united states must continue.
president trump, as youd remember, tucker, came under an externally mounted criticism for his tough-minded approach towards north korea. a lot of people saying he wanted to start a war with the north. would seem exactly the opposite has happened. rather than the missiles flying, it looks like there will beal talks. and it really is, when you look at everywhere we up until this point, an extra ordinary moment in history. tucker. >> tucker: it's astounding. john, was there any mention of the role, if any, that china played in this? >> i think that this was very much a behind the scenes sort of thing. when you talk about the program of maximum pressure, that wasn'a just the united states. it was the united states and a number of other countries, first and foremost among them china. president trump has pushed xi jinping time and time again to get tougher with north korea, to increase the sanctions, to put the squeeze on north korean banks, to not allow workers in north korea -- north korean workers in china to send money back to north korea.
we don't know exactly how much china did in this particular case. it seemed like it was limited, but at this moment, it appears like it may have been enough. so we'll see where this goes. nobody's under any illusions here in the united states that kim jong un -- they might think that he is sincere but nobody thinks that he's not potentially playing fast and loose here. we had john bolton, the former u.n. ambassador, on air the other day saying that he thinks they are just trying to buy timu so that they can complete their nuclear weapons program. then they've got a very big bargaining chip. but they are looking at this optimistically here at the white house, tucker, thinking that this might be the opening that the united states has waited for and tried for for an awfully long time. >> tucker: well, it's unexpected, to say the least. john roberts at the white house, thank you very much. >> thanks, tucker. >> tucker: harry kazianis is a north korea expert and director of defense studies at the center for the national interests and he joins us tonight. harry, i don't know anybody, any of the geniuses running our foreign policy in washington who predicted anything like this.
>> i certainly didn't, that's for certain. i actually thought there was a better chance that we would be at nuclear war with north koreae than there would be peace talks. but there is something we are missing,re tucker. there'se a little bit of contex. south korean press, about two weeks ago, came out with some reports that were fascinating. they actually speculated that north korea was actually on the edge of financial bankruptcy. by october, their foreign exchange reserves are probably going to be exhausted, and their dollar reserves are going to be exhausted. so that means north korea is essentially bankrupt. you can't build a loft of nuclear weapons and a lot of missiles when you have no moneyt to do it, to pay all the different spies and people to bring those materials back. you can't also feed your people that way. so i do think the north koreans might be trying to buy some time here, but i also think that kim jong un's newfound pragmatism, there might be a bigger reason for it. >> tucker: so what do you make of this?s? kim pledged that north korea will refrain from any further nuclear or missile tests. >> as long as we are talking, that is the other caveat to that so i guess as long as both sides are negotiating and trying to figure something out, that then they won't test.
there's a bigger point to all of this. what i would urge president trump to do: meet witr kim jong un, through the hail mary.im history shows us sometimes these things can actually happen and work out.hr i don't think there's anything wrong with that. but what this administration cannot do, tucker, is give himdo any bribes, give him any economic incentives. the north koreans have tried that in the past to come to the table. that would be the wrong move, that would be a mistake. >> tucker: huh. so what is the gambit? continued pressure? i guess in the words of south korea? >> i think what we need to do is, we need to test north korea's intentions. maybe they are sincere.nt maybe they are willing to come to the negotiating table.es because we have to remember something here. t the north koreans -- time is against them. their economy is a disaster. it's worth something like $14 billion. south korea's is worth something like 1.2 trillion. someday the north korean state will collapse. and i think kim realizes this.n so this may be a historic moment. i never thought i would see this before, probably in decades. so i think trump has to explore it. >> tucker: and he may be the
one president who would actually do this, who would go meet with the north korean leader. is he going to stop on his way in oslo to get the nobel peace prize? >> he should be given -- >> tucker: [laughs] >> if he lands this, if he closes the ultimate deal of a lifetime, you give that man the nobel prize. there's no question. >> tucker: but let's be -- i mean, the chances of that are right around zero i think. >> they are maybe around -- >> tucker: of getting the nobel peace prize. >> well. >> tucker: they give it to obama for getting o elected. >> he didn't do anything, yeah. >> tucker: i'm aware. >> yeah. you know what? trump has got to explore this. >> tucker: so what happens -- i mean, just to game this out a little bit, and obviously this is speculative. but the end game of course is reunification. the koreas becoming one country again. what would that mean for everyone else? >> means a lot of good, means a lot of bad. the bad is the toughest part. the cost to reunify north korea with south korea iss probably something like $10 trillion. you are talking about having to build roads, bridges, take care of their people. the economics of that would be totally insane. plus you would have china and japan very nervous about what a
strong korea would mean for the region. just thinking that through is just astronomical. >> tucker: huh. and china would not be in favor, and japan would not be in favor. >> i don't think -- japan i think you could convince them in the long term. china i think it would be one of their biggest fears. >> tucker: well, we are thinking ahead. for the moment, this is really -- it's amazing. >> it's history in the making. >> tucker: again, as usual, no one in d.c. predicted anything like it. harry, great to see you. >> thanks, tucker. o >> tucker: a lot more on this breaking story later in the show. on immigration now. that was the sleeper issue of the 2016 election. no one in power on either side wanted to talk about it but voters did. they knew our immigration policy was not serving their interests, and that's why donald trump won. you'd think both parties would've learned something from that experience, kind of a big deal. and the message was clear. c voters don't want open borders, and they said so emphatically. but congress is still not even pretending to listen. many republican members on the hill are still pushing for mass amnesty under the orwellian title of comprehensive immigration reform. and democrats? well, they've got completely off the deep end. 20 years ago, bill clinton gave
speeches, including the state of the union address, calling illegal immigration a danger to the middle class because it was, demonstrably. trying saying that now at a democratic fund-raising dinner.r you'd be dragged off the stage and charged with bigotry. democrats are now affirmatively in favor of illegal immigration, not an overstatement. they tried to shut down the government on behalf of illegal aliens. they claimed that immigration laws that congress passed with their support are now illegitimate and that the officers charged with enforcing those laws are fascists. and of course they have made all rational conversation impossible by framing the entire issue is a battle in some sort of larger race war. it's shocking, but that's not an exaggeration. watch this. >> the attorney general is trying to distract the american people from a failed immigration system by painting a racist, broad brush of our immigrant community as dangerous b criminals. >> the racists who are driving immigration policy in the white house are defining the agenda for every house
republican and are shaping the brand of the republican party not just as the party who doesn't want poor or latin american immigrants but doesn't want brown or black or anyone who isn't white in this country. >> since last night, the president put forth a plan. that plan is a campaign to make america white again. >> tucker: the plan she is talking about of course would have admitted 3 million nonwhite immigrants.f talk about demagoguery. democrats aren't simply the pro immigration party. they are now the anti-border party, the party opposed to citizenship itself. they don't want the border secured. they oppose the deportation of anyone under any circumstances, evenen after criminal offenses. they pushed to give illegal immigrants welfare benefits, drivers licenses, in-state tuition, state funded attorneys to fight american immigration law. they think kate steinle's killer has more rights than you do. when you confront them on any ok this, they say that american citizens just aren't impressive enough. they are too fat. they are too lazy. they are too addicted to drugs. they demand decent wages.
they insist on constitutional rights like, i don't know, freedom of speech, the right to bear arms. all very inconvenient. some of them have said that out loud. bill kristol basically said that out loud. democratic leaders would like to see these people replaced by compliant foreigners who will serve the ruling class without complaint. well, do voters actually support any event? well, actually they don't. but it doesn't matter. democrats know if they import enough new voters, they will be able to run the country forever. would you want to live in that country? probably not. but judge for yourself. california democratic senator kamala harris recently told the rest of us california, her state, is our future. listen. >> these folks are really mired in rolling back the clock in time. and that's not going to happen. california represents the future. and they don't like it, but there you go. >> tucker: yeah, they don't like it, but california is our future. says future presidential candidate kamala harris. what would that mean actually if the future work california? well, california has more poverty than any state.
it has the highest number of residents who don't speak english at home. according to u.s. news, it has the lowest quality of life in the entire country. 50 out of 50 states. housing prices are totally out of control. homelessness is overwhelming. go there and see for yourselves. hypodermic needles literally piling up in the street.t. the middle class can't flee fast enough.. in the past decade, a million more people have moved out oftr california than have moved in. a u-haul from san jose to phoenix costs ten times as much as a u-haul going the other way because no one is going the i other way. this is the future that kamala harris is boasting about. all this could soon, by the way, be a political problem for democrats. the midterms are coming up this fall. democrats are going to win seats for sure. the out party always does. republicans have made some really dumb mistakes. they are going to win back seats. the question is will they retake congress? according to all predictions, they should.in they definitely promised their voters they are to retake
congress. and yet in spite of all these advantages, they may not. they may fall short. why? because their positions on immigration are radical and crazy, and they have no popular support. n in a democracy, popularul suppot still matters. bryan dean wright is a democrat. he's also a former cia operative who says the open borders agenda is not sustainable, virtuous as it may be, and he joins us tonight. so bryan, what do you mean by that?bo why is it not sustainable to let every poor person in the world move here? >> well, here's the bottom line. this argument, this debate, has really focused on the past. how have past immigrants madehe america's greatness? and indeed they have. we all have connections to fantastic immigrant communities, right? so what's happening now and in the next 15 to 20 years? and what we are seeing is something not related oro connected to politics but actually technology. and what is happening: robotics, automation, and machine learning. it's really effectively making human labor less and less important and relevant. and that's especially true for jobs that immigrants hold. and by the way, blue-collar folks and people of color in
inner-cities in particular. >> tucker: exactly. >> the obama administration came out with this study in late 2016 right before they left and said look, we are on the verge of losing jobs. if you have them under 20 bucks an hour, you are likely --'m and i'm going to quote "going to beo automated into obsolescence." basically your job is going to go away.ou and they said if you earn less than 20 bucks an hour, you can forget about any kind of qualitu of life, right? so these are the kinds of jobs that immigrants take. so we need to be talking about how this technology is going to impact not only people hear but the future kinds of people that we should be embracing as p they come into this country to include a merit-based system. everybody can have a different opinion on whether or not we should be doing this. but we should be talking about what's driving this change. and that change is technology. >> tucker: i mean, previous waves of immigration began at the start of the industrial revolution. we are at the end of it. so it's a totally different country with different economic needs.nd what you just said, i'm going to print out and put at the top ofy my list of things to worry about. the jobs that previous
generations of immigrants held are going to be gone. so this is so obvious. it should be particularly obvious to people in california which is leading the technological change. why does nobody say that ever?r? >> it's incredibly frustrating. i think for those of us who have been looking at this issue very, very closely. i work with an organization now or collaborate with them. innovation collective. that is trying to figure out how do you take care of the people who are already here, re-inspire, reengage them, particularly in flyover states, which is an offensive term but we've embraced it. fine, let's do this. how do we fix this country and this economy so that they win? all right? absent that, who's going to take care of the folks are already here? irrespective of the folks that we will be importing down the road. how are we going to pay for the trillion dollar programs to take care of the people who are already here let alone bringing in new folks which about 60% don't have any kind of notable skills. how are we going to take care of them if ultimately they are not providing a lot back into the economy? so i think for the next 5 to 10 years, we have got to be focused
on where these technologies are headed. and by the way, i've been slammed by folks on the left. media matters and others. for even bringing the subject up. so it doesn't really bode well for having this conversation. but i will tell you if anybody wants to be angry about this, reach out to the people in san francisco and los angeles and new york and boston who are creating this technology, to your point. i mean, get angry at them for creating a system where we are going to have to be more thoughtful about who we take in this country. and that's the bottom line. >> tucker: yes, and we are angry. by the way, let me just say it's thrilling to hear somebody say something that is demonstrably true that everyone else is afraid to say. and you just did it.t and i'm grateful that you did. thank you, bryan. >> you betcha. >> tucker: a supporter of the open borders agenda joins us next to rebut what you just heard. did the president insult north korea's dictator sot much that he actually agreed to a meeting and may disarm? this news is moving fast and we will have the latest onon that story when we come
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you know what's not awesome? gig-speed internet. when only certain people can get it. let's fix that. let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids, and these guys, him, ah. oh hello. that lady, these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh, sure. still yes! xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. now you can get it, too. welcome to the party. ♪ , >> tucker: well, the democratic party has become completely radical as defined specifically by outside the mainstream of public opinion in a democracy. in immigration that's exactly where they are.e they are going to run on that apparently. some people think it's a good idea. richard goodstein does. here is the point. last guest who i should note is a sincere democrat not ast fake democrat we brought ton make a point. he is a democrat. but he said look, every t
study, all by liberals, obama people. mackenzie company, consultants all predict like huge percent of all of our blue collar jobs are going away really soon. and yet we are importing people as he noted are 60% without meaningful skills. poor people with no education. doesn't mean they are bad people.e what are they going to do? bsit's crazy. >> some industries where we are not going to be losing jobs, hospitality. agriculture, landscaping. retail, healthcare. this is where actually a lot of these undocumented immigrants are working. and you see what's happening in california where these businesses are just absolutely caught in a vice.ne you got ice on one hand. this california law on the other basically saying not so fast. and they are losing employees and they are losing customers because people just don't want to be around there. >> tucker: most of the jobs you mentioned are designed to serve rich people. this policy itself is designed
to make sure that everyone in your neighborhood gets cheap housekeepers. i get it. so the ruling class is inn favor of that. i'm talking about actual jobsr one can you support a family on. the old industrial jobs. that are going away.ld >> right. >> tucker: why would you ever, in the face of that change, import people who are not prepared to compete in a digital high tech economy? why would you do that? >> again, when you talk about importing people. >> tucker: letting them come.. >> okay, fine. understand when the democrats were in control we had a gang of 8 bill that 14 republicans -- orrin hatch, lamar alexander, not lefties supported and we also had a net outflow of people from the u.s. to mexico. that's when the democrats were in charge, right? so, this notion about open borders, that's a caricature. i get it, but it justrd happens not to comport with rerelation. >> tucker: literally arguing for open borders now. arguing for them now.. any border enforcement isrs not just wrong or against this country's economic interest, which is a
conversation i would be happy to have, but it's racist. you don't like people of different color. they are basically describing this as a kind of race war. is there a more divisive way to conduct politics than to say that kind of crap out loud when a, you know it's a lie and b, you know it's going to leave permanent wounds? >> so, again, kamala harris who you quoted earlier said i'm a former prosecutor, if ice wants to take out gang members and violent criminals and so forth, i'm there. because that's what they should be doing. if somebody is here undocumented that's a violent criminal, get them out. that's what she has been saying. look, as far as kind of targeting people by race, jeff sessions, i'm quite sure, went into california with his program and his lawsuit because the vice was tightening elsewhere in the trump administration, things weren't looking good for him personally and the administration generally and good way to talk about the other. a >> tucker: whatever. but here is the truth. w >> it is. >> tucker: lawmakers can debate the wisdom of laws. okay? that's what they do. lawmakers should never encourage
others to disregard laws, to flout the law. to undermine the law. their job is to make laws, not encourage lawlessness. >> agreed. >> tucker: if democrats don'tli like immigration laws theon ones they voted for in congress. why don't they work to change them rather than try c to convince people laws you don't like don't need to be obeyed which is what they are doing now. >> what they are saying is by law a government cannot force its state to spend its resources. it's rich, we agree. have you people from alabama who absolutely stiff armed the voting rights act saying now, we think the state should really be disempowered and should follow what washington says. >> tucker: nobody is arguing this. we have been through this ground many times.s states are not obligated to enforce federal law. they are prohibited from undermining it and thwarting it and obstructing it. that's exactly what they are doing.ng you know it. it's illegal. they are doing it anyway. the lunatic mayor of oakland whose actual americanny citizens are dying because parts of oakland are terrifying. rather than meet their needs, she is encouraging illegals to escape federal
law enforcement. that's obstruction of law. >> she is advising them of their rights.th some other right, if it was o a second amendment, you wouldd say thank god, mayor. >> tucker: they don't have rights.. they are not american citizens.. her concern should be for american citizens. >> she was basically saying do you or do you not have to respond to a knock on theas door. that's a right you have. >> tucker: the cops are coming, run. no snitching. she is out-of-touch rich who doesn't understand her obligation to americans. >> what law enforcement would tell you in oakland and in california to the extent that immigrants feel beset upon by police and by law enforcement, they are less likely to report domestic violence and other things because they just don't want to come forward. >> tucker: who cares? look, i'm not against -- i'm actually for immigrants. i like them. but shouldn't lawmakers make their bottom line the well being of citizens: democrats are not doing that. if they don't win the house, i'm going to come on the show with you and gloat because their views are so far out of the
mainstream, they may not win the house. >> i don't think if they don't win the house this is going to be. if you look at the polls, the polls are no wall. no reduction in immigration and, yes on dreamers. that's what the polls actually say. o >> tucker: well, we will see. you said the polls said that, i don't know, in 2016 and donald trump won. [laughs] >> by 3 million short but yeah, he won.. >> tucker: thank you, richard. >> sure. >> tucker: federal lawsuit is an act of war which is why the state of insurrection against american law is in place. a lot of stuff going on in this country, the director of ice joins us to talk about the latest next. liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.
saying it's illegal forr anyone who lives in that state, private citizens, to cooperate with you, a federal law enforcement agency, what does that do to the work you are trying to do in the state of california? >> it makes our enforcement duties a lot more difficult in the state of california. rather than taking custody of a criminal alien who is a public safety threat inside the security and safety of a county jail where we don't have access to weapons, now we are forced to go into neighborhoods, places os employment, to locate these public safety threats on their turf where they could have access to who knows what weapons.co my biggest concern is one of my agents is going to knock on the door some day and he's not going to go home that night. that's very unfortunate because he should have been able to apprehend that person in jail and not be forced to go on his turf to arrest him. >> tucker: so this is making t it more dangerous for federal immigration agents, but there is an irony here because the state of california, its politicians are claiming that you guys are going door-to-door and
rousting the innocence? s but you are saying their policies are making you go door to door.our. >> let's be clear. the sanctuary city policies are forcing our hand, right? for decades, we've had access to county jails. we can take -- someone is in the country illegally, they are sitting in the county jail, which means they are not a choir boy, local and state officials have made the decision to lock these people up. and for decades, we went to the jail, identified them as illegae aliens, and take them into custody and remove them from the country, remove them from the community. but because they have limited our access to the jails, they don't share information with us, now we are forced to go into neighborhoods which, when theey governor says he's protecting the immigrant communities, theod mayor is saying she's protecting the immigrant communities, they ares not. they are releasing criminal aliens back into the very a communities they live in they victimize. so they're putting immigrant communities at increased danger of crime. and they put the immigrant community at increased arrest by i.c.e. because when we go into t home to arrest that target, if we find others, they will be arrested too. so they have actually put them in a bad position.he and i'll add this. if they went to the immigrant community and asked the immigrant community, where would you rather have i.c.e.? in a county jail or in your neighborhood?
i guarantee that they would tell you the county jail. >> tucker: how does it make you feel to hear your agents described in effect as bigots, as a domestic gestapo by the democrats in california?a? >> it's an insult to the 20,000 american patriots that work for i.c.e. these are men and women they get up every day, strap a gun tore their hip to defend this nationu they leave the safety and t security of their home every day to protect their neighborhoods, to protect the community. and they are enforcing the law that congress enacted. they are doing their job, their sworn oath. so it's an insult to many fine men and women. >> tucker: you don't make the laws.ns congress does. so what do you -- how do you respond when brian fallon, who was a former spokesman for hillary clinton, says the democrats ought to run on eliminating i.c.e.? >> you know, if you look at the work that i.c.e. did, how many criminal aliens have we removed from these communities? how much safer have we made these communities? you know, these politicians, they need to talk to the victimd of alien crime. talk to the parents that i have talked to that lost children at
the hands of criminal aliens. they need to talk to california. the california sheriffs association, the governors sheriffs, came out in support of i.c.e. they did a press release last night. if i can read just one sentence of their press release. it shows governor brown is wrong on this issue.e this comes from his own sheriffs. "we oppose sb 54. the bill was enacted still containing significant liabilities which include s restricting our communication with federal law enforcement about the release of wanted, undocumented criminals from our jails, including known gang members and other serious offenders." j his own sheriffs agree with what i.c.e. and doj say. >> tucker: shocking. mr. homan, thank you for coming on. that was great. >> thank you for having me.. >> tucker: good to see you.mr we have newly released radio transmissions from the parkland massacre in florida. that's next. 's next. ♪
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♪ >> tucker: we now have police radio traffic from the parkland shooting.. it includes disgraced officer scot peterson, the one who failed to enter stoneman douglas high school to confronter the shooter and save the 17 who were murdered. here's part of it. >> tucker: didn't go in. just kept talking. radio traffic does shed some light on the biggest scandal of that massacre. after failing to respond to numerous warnings about nikolas cruz, the shooter, broward county sheriff's deputies also failed to takeke action during the shooting that obviously could have saved lives. well, florida's republicand controlled legislature just passed a battery of new gun control laws. the specific law raises the minimum age from buying a gun in the state to 21.
it impose a minimum three day waiting period and bans bump stocks. it also creates a school for arming employees but requires them to complete at least 12 hours of diversity training. the law is still waiting for governor rick scott's signature. he could veto it. we don't know. representative david richardson is a democrat in the florida state house and he joins us tonight. representative, thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. >> tucker: so i know you didn't support this bill, but i know that you are an advocate for gun control laws more broadly. tell me why it contains 12 hours of mandatory diversity training. how would that stop mass shootings? >> well, i think the diversity training was added because it would give everyone anbe opportunity to understand different communities and their needs and the diversity. so i know that there was a lot of concern from the communities of color about putting guns in schools and the stand your ground laws
here in the state of florida which i'm sure you are very familiar with. they felt like it would be beneficial to have diversity training as part of that bill. >> tucker: i understand the political dynamics that lawmakers were bullied by interest groups to do it. let me re-ask my question how would that prevent further mass shootings which i thought was the point of this. >> i don't think that speaks to the prevention of thehe future mass shootings. i think it was added there because the guardian program was included in the bill which was part of the bill, the part of the bill that i had deep concerns about andhe that's why i voted no on the bill. but, as you know, the guardian program would allow school personnel, non-teachers to be armed, to carry guns in schools after an extensive training, over 130 hours and 12 hours of that would have to be in diversity training. >> tucker: yeah. i mean, it just makes the whole thing seem like a joke to the rest of us because, of course, that's totally unrelated to the supposed
justification for the law. so you could see why that would cast some doubt on theee intentions of the whole thing. let me ask you, i presume you support the part of the law that raises the age for purchasing firearms to 21. i'm not sure we know whether that's going to prevent mass shootings or save life. just from a constitutional rights perspective, so that's a right specifically mentioned in the constitution. okay. it's not like the right to buy alcohol. it's specifically mentioned. are there any other rights specifically mentioned like the right to vote or the right to free speech that weht could kind of bump the age cap up to 21 on? >> well, as you know, we limit certain activities, for example, when you can get your drivers license. >> tucker: sure. >> i understand those are not constitutional issues. >> tucker: no, they're not. >> you are talking about second amendment, of course. i fully support the secondke amendment.re but it's something that i think we need to take a careful look at because, you know, we -- the second amendment was written at a time when we had militia
men carrying muskets and pouches of gunpowder. we don't have that anymore. >> tucker: that's true. let me stop you there. you make a fair point. i want to go back and make sure i understand. you say we need to take a look at the second amendment. what do you mean? revising it, repealing it? what does that mean? >> i am not in favor of repealing it. but i think that we should take a look at it in the context of when it was written versus today. i don't think the founding fathers could have anticipated the type of weaponry we have today. >> tucker: that's true. o but, may i just say, i'm sorry, but this is important because you are a lawmaker. they also couldn't have anticipated the internet. they barely had the printing press. should we also take a look at the first amendment? i mean, why wouldn't we if that's how we are going to evaluate our constitutional rights? >> we have taken a look at the first amendment several times. that's why you can't yell fire in a movie theater. >> tucker: that's y basically all you can't do. any other speech is allowed according to the supreme court. do you think, again, those decisions were before the internet. do you think we should revise the first amendment
are all constitutional rights up for revision based on technological advances? >> so, guns are the subject that we're talking about tonight, not the first amendment. >> tucker: no, the constitution. >> let me just get this in. >> tucker: yeah, yeah. >> what often gets lost in the discussion with the second amendment is the part that starts with the about a well-regulated militia. how -- why aren't we talking about that?uc where is this well-regulated militia? >> tucker: the supreme court has brought that up at least twice in the last 10 years. both times that amendment applies to the individual not the militia. that is a settled legal question. i'm wondering how the florida state legislature is reinterpreting that. but whatever.a we will find out. thank you, congressman, i appreciate that and your explanations.ev louis farrakhan is, of course, a racist. doesn't hide it.kh anti-semitic. says that right out loud and a fix for the democratic party.
no one seems to care in the media. kind of. weird. mark steyn has been noticing. he will join us next to weigh in. was able to take care of my family while i was overseas serving. it was my very first car accident. we were hit from behind. i called usaa and the first thing they asked was 'are you ok?' they always thank you for your service, which is nice because as a spouse you serve too. we're the hayles and we're usaa members for life. see how much you could save with usaa by bundling your auto and home insurance. get a quote today.
"dukes of hazzard," i don't know if you were living in this country then, but it was a pretty popular tv show, '70s, early '80s. it was pulled out of rotation because there's a confederate flag on a car. and that was considered too much. >> on the roof of the car. >> tucker: on the roof. for the sensibilities of american viewers. protect the children from that. but then danny davis is hanging out with a guy who was saying the jews are bloodsuckers or whatever horrible thing he is saying and nobody cares because why? >> because he is on their team. and the left are very seriousf about this. minister farrakhan has said that instead of borrowing on about what hitler did to the jews, the jews should ask themselves about what they did to hitler to make them -- him so mad at them. >> tucker: did he really say that? >> that's how he has formulated it on multiple locations. the media and powerful democrats such as the deputy chairman keith ellison looked the other way. they have looked the other way since at least the so-called
million man march when he went nuts and started talking on the mall that he was standing by the lincoln and jefferson memorials. and lincoln was the 16th president and jefferson was the third president. and if you add them up,, 16 and 3 makes 19 which is the precise height of each of the memorials and 19, the 9 means h there is a pregnant womb andnd the 1 means there is a secret that's going to be uncovered. he is a nut. he is a nut. now, it's not just that he hates jews but he claims to have been abducted on i believe at least two occasions by aliens. the first time he was taken up into space to commune with this spirit of elijah muhammad, the founder of the nation of islam, and the second time he was apparently abducted by jews who've got a ufo. there is jews in space. who knew? so it means that whenever jared kushner or tony blair or whoever solves the middle east peace
process, they are going to have to get right on minister farrakhan's rocket ship and go up to planet zongo and sort out the squabbling jews and nation of islam guys up there in space. it says something absolutely appalling about the democratic party that an obvious nut, that obama -- that even maxine waters, that keith ellison, that all of these democrats are sove scared of a lunatic that theyll feel obliged to kiss up to him. >> tucker: [laughs] i covered the million man march. i didn't know any of that. that was amazing. he is even nuttier that i imagined. >> yeah, it's all in the numbers. 16 plus 3. look, he makes great calypso albums, or he did in the '50s. and he can carry off a red bow tie with aplomb.. which as you know, tucker, is more difficult than it looks.hi
so let's give him that. but it's embarrassing that this nut is a power broker in the democratic party and the media won't cover it. >> tucker: oh, i wish we had an hour to talk. mark steyn, thank you. >> thanks a lot, tucker. >> tucker: we'll have more on tonight's breaking news, astounding, really, breaking news. president trump's planned meeting with kim jong un of north korea. nobody saw that coming. we'll be right back. alice is living with metastatic breast cancer,
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tthink it came out of a policy that was so dramatically different than president obama's. strategic patience for obama versus enough b.s. from trump. he put sanctions on coming at the trainees too do things they were never willing to do in the prior administration. we gave up nothing for this meeting. sanctions continued, our joint exercises continue, and there may be a meeting and made with the president. hehe accepted but there is a lot of ground to be laid before that meeting will be how to. >> tucker: but so interesting is that that strategy was greeted in washington, by the same people who said that iraqis would greet us as liberators. we are going to nuclear war, you're out of control, uterine what we are doing. will anybody say, i was wrong? >> the resistance will never admit that trump was able to make this breakthrough. the question is, what will come for a meeting, a face-to-face meeting with the president, korea, the president of united states? i am dismissives of modern nixon
goes to china. mao makes this guy look like a choir boy. look,ho if trump is able to maka modicum of difference and turn back the clock on the nuclear program, this is going to be huge. it will be good for the united states, it will be good for the region. and i think china deserves a lot of credit. the south koreans deserve a lot of credit. but there's a lot of ground work in n the next month or so. >> tucker: for sure. it may not work. this is not a step towards war. the next question, could any other president, whatever he's not good at, could any other president have done this? >> it would be hard to believe they could. why? he's so unorthodox he's willing to do things that foggy bottomnt would never have entertained. that is why he goes around people and those things that are totally unexpected. >> tucker: the state department did not do this. >> oh, my gosh, no. >> tucker: thank you. great to see you.ir we have confirmed
running the trump organization. it worked that way in the campaign and in the white house. people like gary cohn, one of his chief economic advisers, peter navarro, he would have them battle it out about tariffs. navarro's side ended in winning. that's also been trump's long-held view about tariffs. gary cohn later resigned, mostly because of that decision made by the president. but he is someone who, in our reporting, shows in recent weeks he's grown more and more frustrated with some of the advice from his straf. he's also grown more and more frustrated more of his staff is leaving, but at the same time, he feels a little liberated, he's been telling people close to him that he wants to trust his instincts, trust his gut. he thinks that's what won him the election in 2016 and that's what he waunnts to rely on more and more in the white house, and we're seeing that this week in particular, the decision on tariffs and the surprising decision on north korea.
>> how much does that thrill you, that he wants to rely on his gut? >> that's a nightmare. this president is uniquely ignorant about the world and policy matters. he believes what he believes, and facts really do not enter into it. he's infamous for not reading anything. so when he watches a glad torial battle between aides on a policy matter, goodness knows what he uses to judge it because he has no independent basis of knowledge. in fact, he chose the viewpoint impose tariffs that 99.9% of economists say is disastrous. i think this chaos, yes, it's how he operates, but secondly, it's a bit of cover for anything that looks like a normal process. this president doesn't know very much. he hasn't made an effort to know very much. he doesn't like being criticized. i think creating this hullabaloo around him distracts people, confuses people, and he meanders
through the scene, popping his head into the white house briefing room to say we're going to have an announcement on korea. and as a result, i think it's becoming more and more chaotic. when you talk to our allies overseas, when you talk to business, they are flummoxed. and listen, it's good to sort of keep them guessing on strategic matters. but on your overall policy views and your overall goals for the administration, for america, it's not a good idea to have everyone confused. >> jennifer, you wrote about the tariffs jonathan was talking about a moment ago, and the republican reaction to them. there's a line from your column, some members of congress are even considering gasp reclaiming their constitutional authority over tariffs. you talked about a rare show of spine from many republican members of the legislature. what's the long-term effects of this? you saw the backlash, the likes of which we haven't seen to the president making the policy decision like the one he did. what's the fallout from that going to be? do you expect there to be more of a show of spine, as you
described it? >> i like to think they have woken up and now they're going to be their own men and women, but i sort of doubt it. they have been extremely comply nltd with this administration. and it is a little bit of a mystery that why on trade would they suddenly perk up. i thing it has a lot to do with republican donors, but more importantly, i think they know that a trade war puts at risk what has been a very good economy. really, the only thing trump and republicans have to run on is the economy. and if they screw that up, and they're not going to be able to blame barack obama for that bought it's their tariff bill, what are they going to run on? so i think they have tried to convince the president to somehow narrow this. unfortunately, you can try to narrow it all you like, but if the remaining parties that are subject to these sanctions desile to retaliate and you go into a full-scale trade war, that will be bad for the american economy. >> we talk about isolation in the context of the president being isolated from his staff or advisers. how about isolation from members
of his party? are we seeing that play out that broadly. when you look at tariffs, you have see blowback like you haven seen before? >> that's true. he is someone who is not a traditional republican by any means. for much of his life, he wasn't a republican at all. while running that campaign, it was very much trumpism more than a republican orthodoxy that he really ran on. to this point, as was just said, he's covered those in the congress, republicans on the hill have not been particularly willing to stand up to him. he still remains more popular than most of them in their home districts. this does seem to be a moment, at least for now, where they're willing to push back. but we'll see how far it goes. >> jonathan, thank you. jennifer, thanks to you as well. as robert mueller's investigation continues to pick up steam, some house democrats are turning their focus to another potential scandal. pt. bt and his associates are facing. alleged hush money paid to former adult film star stormy daniels who claimed to have an
affair with trump more than a decade ago. nine democrats sent a letter to his lawyers demanding answers about that payment. with me is steve cohen of tennessee. he's one of the nine democrats who signed that letter. i just want to ask you, first of all, what your chief concern is as you watch all of this unfold. there are so many layers. manifold layers to this story about stephanie clifford who goes by the name stormy daniels. what concerns you the most, what prompted you to sign your name to the letter? >> there's several factors. of course, the federal election campaign laws is the primary source of our jurisdiction and judiciary and whether they were violated and the payments were made over the limits and without notice and disclosure. and that's the major issue. beyond that, there's just the whole pan aplea of women that have been -- claimed to be attacked by, groped by, harassed by donald trump, which he's denied entirely. but now we see in the case of
ms. clifford and ms. mcdougle that in situations like this, he has used his money to get them to not disclose what he has apparently engaged in sex and how many other times he might have done this. it does bear to his credibility and to his propensities towards harassing and groping women as he said on the entertainment nightly or whatever. >> "access hollywood," excuse me. >> i'm looking at the letter, more than a dozen pages in length. you say, we can assure you we have no interest in mr. trump's personal relationships in and of themselves. what would you like from these two attorneys for president trump, and then you also have david picker here, the chairman of executive officer of american media, what do you hope to get from them in the next couple weeks. >> we hope they would come forward and give us the information about who paid for the -- ms. clifford. it's hard to believe that
mr. cohen would have violated ethics laws that attorneys have to not inform his client of what went on and to pay an amount of money for his client. that's something that could be volitive of new york state ethics laws and something attorneys generally don't do. attorneys are not known to go into their own pockets. i won't go, as an attorney, i won't suggest whose pockets they might go into, but they don't go into their own. that's just bad business sense and bad legal ethics. we would like to know who made the payments and did mr. trump sign them, and david densis or john miller or john barren, or donald j. trump. >> help me with your oversight capacity, how much oversight do you have? what's your sense of what you're able to do? >> the judiciary committee should have oversight over this. in terms of election laws, in
terms of justice and civil jurisdiction. i'm the ranking member on the constitution law committee. but we should also be exercising jurisdiction over gun laws, which are criminal laws, over the justice department and issues concerning mr. mueller and threats to fire mr. rosenstein to get at mr. mueller, but we have done nothing. we're the people's house and we're the relevant committee, not necessarily the intelligence committee, which has responsibilities, but not the same as judiciary, yet our committee because of the actions of our chairman, mr. goodlatte, we have done nothing to look into any of the abuses of the constitution, possible violations of the emoluments cause, obstruction of justice, attacks on the judiciary, and attacks on the press by this presidency and this president. and we should be looking at all of these. but they are in bed with this president, and i think that history will judge this committee and this chairman very harshly, and many republicans harshly, for staying in bed with what i think will be seen to be
the most corrupt, mendacious president in the history of the united states. >> my last question to you is about this moment, and you and your colleagues close this letter by nodding to that. you wreet, in a time of ever increasing concern over sexual harassment and growing appreciation for offering support to victims of sexual assault, that's the impetus for doing in the in part. speak to that a little more. i read that quotation about how there isn't interest principally in the president's personal affairs, but there is a me too moment, the moment we're in right now. >> the letter was signed by several members of the judiciary committee, our chairman, and also lois frankel, who heads up the women's caucus. the women's clocks has been particularly interested in the allegations of trump and harassment of women and sexually overreaching. without acquiescence, without permission. and he's denied it all. and yet these are the type of
instances, and we saw it with gary hart and we have seen it with bill clinton, to where politicians have been involved with sex, and it's become public issues. and it's caused gary hart to drop out of the presidential campaign. it caused bill clinton to be impeached. with this president, nothing is happening. i think there are similar issues, and you know, you saw al franken surrender his senate position for much less than what donald trump has been accused of. donald trump has denied everything, but donald trump would destroy any and all lie detectors that have ever been created. he would burn them all up. >> congressman cohen, we'll leave it there. thank you for the time. the gentleman from memphis, thank you. >> nice to be with you. >> international input. president trump making a number of calls to leaders about his meeting with kim jong-un. what is the plan, if there even is one?
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those two men will meet. with me now is msnbc national security analyst, ambassador michael mcfaul. great to speak with you once again. i want to start by playing an exchange that occurred between hallie jackson and sarah huckabee sanders. let's take a listen. >> is there a possibility that these talks with north korea, with kim jong-un, may not happen? >> look, they've got to folalol through on the promises they have made. we want to see concrete and verifiable action on that front. >> it's possible that could not happen? >> there are a lot of things possible. i'm not going to sit here and walk through every hupthetical that could exist in the world. >> i want to get your reaction, first of all, to this announcement and the way it came about, and your sense of the odds that we'll see a meeting between these two world leaders, that this will be made good on, that these two men will get together in the coming months. >> with respect to the way the announcement was made, let me put it diplomatically, it was
highly unorthodox. obviously, they did this on the fly. his team did not discuss it. it's clear there wasn't a national security council meeting where they sat in the white house situation room and said, should we meet with kim jong-un to try to achieve nuclear disarm ament? they didn't do that. he walked into the room and made a decision. the second thing i want to say, i want to be clear, though. i hope president trump can achieve permanent denuclearization by this strategy. i just fear that he doesn't have a strategy to achieve that objective. if he can, i'll be the first to write one of his letters nominating him to the nobel peace prize. >> that would be extraordinary. i was looking at the column by nick los christophe. he said the pressure he has applied through sanctions maybe got us to this time. the president tweeting, north korea has not conducted a missal test since november 28th, 2017. and has promised not to do so through our meetings. i believe they'll have to honor that commitment. you talk about how unorthodox
this is. i wonder how sure you are of the offer that's been made here. we learned about it through a third party. what has to be done between now and the meeting to insure that all of the grounds are met, or to the liking of the u.s. and north korea? >> well, that's exactly the point. and that's why i think the press secretary was hedging there whether or not this meeting will take place. because president trump said the goal of these negotiations are permanent denuclearization in north korea. i have never heard of a north korean leader ever agreeing that that should be the goal of negotiations. so maybe there's a garble here, maybe they're hinting at that for the future, but that creates a big disconnect between what president trump wants and what the north koreans are desiring from this meeting. and there's one other piece here, when the press secretary sanders said, we haven't given up any concessions. that's not true. agreeing to meet with kim
jong-un, that's a concession. that is giving up something for nothing. so if the president has this summit and nothing is achieved, that's a win for the north koreans, and that is not in america's national interests. >> last question here is just about how handicapped we are diplomatically at this point. we do not have a u.s. ambassador to south korea at this point. the point person for north korea issues stepped down recently as well. how much of a handicap is it not having that personnel in place? able to help lay the groundwork for these negotiations. >> i think it's a huge handicap. you know, i worked at the white house for the first three years of the obama administration when we negotiated the new start treaty with russia to limit nuclear weapons. we had a full team. we had dozens of people in the government at the secretary of state level, undersecretary, at the national security council. all experts on nuclear weapons. and people like me, experts on russia. they don't have either of those two categories. they don't have the north korean
experts, as you talked about, but they also don't have the nuclear weapons experts. they haven't named any of those people in the state department. that, i think, is a big constraint. diplomacy is a team sport. it's not tennis. and for the president just to roll in without having that team in place, i think, puts him at a big disadvantage. >> mr. ambassador, always a pleasure. thank you very much. michael mcfaul, now at stanford university joining me. >> next, an enticing letter. details of an invitation president trump sent to vladimir putin in 2013. r: as you grow ol, your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again?
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and i couldn't ask for a better partner. welcome back. i'm david gura. this afternoon, women and the cloud being cast over the trump white house. "the washington post" reporting on a personal letter president trump wrote to vladimir putin back in 2013 asking him to attend the 2013 miss universe pageant in moscow. evidently, in a handwritten post script, he said he looked forward to seeing beautiful women on the trip. it comes as the plot thickens as we learn more about the alleged extramarital affair between the president and the porn star. his personal attorney used trump organization e-mail to make hush payment arrangements with stormy daniels. that contradict what he said about how that $130,000 payment went down. joining me is an msnbc analyst, danny cevallos, and a political reporter with the daily beast. let me start with you and the
letter getting a lot of attention. shane harrison's colleagues reporting on the letter sent by donald trump to president putin. what's the significance of it, having the postscript written in sharpie at the bottom of the lett letter. they haven't seen the letter, but it's been described to the reporters. >> it could substantiate the claims made in the steele dossier, that trump was provided russian prostitutes that he denied. that tidbit saying he's looking forward to seeing beautiful women, is he talking about possibly getting prostitutes come to his hotel, or referring to the women involved in the pagea pageant? who knows, but it could substantiate those claims. my question is how did mueller get this letter? mueller is so far ahead of the game, more than we can even realize, in order to -- he got this letter in his hand. we know it didn't come from trump. we know it didn't come from putin. that in and of itself is so fascinating to me. it just goes to show trump's obsession with putin when he's publicly made it known that he
doesn't know putin. he doesn't have that kind of a relationship with him. senting a personal letter to him inviting him to the pageant says something otherwise. >> i want to spend some time on the $130,000 payment. i read the piece in the times this morning. she wrote as the drama unfolds, it's becoming clear for all its sordid details, it's not a sex scandal. it's a campaign finance scandal, a transparency scandal, and potentially part of an ongoing national security scandal. what's changed in the last couple days? what have we learned in recent days that contributed to our understanding of what may have transpired between the two of them? >> we learned of the countersuit from stormy daniels and her attorney, braking the fact she's not going to apply with this nda because the president, she contended, did not sign on to the document, which she had assumed he would have, being involved in the scenario. secondarily, we also learned that michael cohen, despite saying different things about where the source of the money
was coming from, exactly how he had informed trump or if the president was aware at all he was doing this, that he was using his trump organization e-mail to actually coordinate some of the transactions from this bank, which raises tons of red flags in terms of how the money is being funneled and if it can count as some kind of in-kind contribution for a campaign given the timing of the arrival of the money, which was in october, right before the election. >> just want to read here that initial statement from michael cohen, neither the trump organization nor the trump campaign was party to the tranls action with ms. clifford and neither reimbursed me for the payment either directly or indirectly. let me ask you about the case made by stephanie clifford and her attorney. what's the strongest facet of it? there's this election law case being made. the case about the nondisclosure agreement, the signature, how much that matters. hot is your sense of the strength of the case? >> clifford's case and her attorneys don't care so much about the campaign fnls issues. her strongest argument is that this agreement is no good
because trump was never a party to it. and the more words that come out of michael cohen's mouth, the more problematic this becomes because in looking at the contract, you can infer that there was an intentional effort to cloud who the parties were. if you look at the signature line, michael cohen signed on behalf not of trump, but e.c., or essential consultant. when you look at the rest of the contract, each page is initialled. here, the plot thickens because in the line where you should initial for d.d., it's not initialled d.d. it's initialled e.c. not m.c. for michael cohen, but e.c. for the entity essential consultants. this further clouds the question of who was a party to the contract, and the more the defends in the case cloud the issue, the more a judge is likely to resolve it in their favor. however, the trump team has some solid arguments because they built a very strong arbitration clause, one that clearly favors
team e.c., team trump, team michael cohen. it's very strongly worded in their favor. and the law tends to favor the arbitration of disputes rather than resolving them in court where the parties have agreed to arbitrate. and nothing can get away from the fact that ms. clifford, stormy daniels, did originally sign an agreement that contained that arbitration provision. >> took the money. i want you to respond to that. i'm also curious what the risks are as you see them if it gets out of arbitration, if she's able to keep it in court. is there any lueke hood that happens given what we have now? >> first, i think michael cohen should be disbarred. that mob mentality doesn't belong in a court of law. irrespective of all that, what stormy daniels is doing right now is essentially obtaining her goal. however this may resolve itself in court, there are obviously issues that need to be rezauchbled. there's a disputed issue there, but what she's trying to do is get her narrative out there and
get her story out there. all the while, she's making millions. she's getting the goal attained from the perspective of her career. she's making millions for appearances all over the country. but michael cohen making this payment from the extent that he went through, to get a home equity line in order to make this payment, you don't make that kind of payment unless you know you're being paid back. and these alleged complaints he's making that he hasn't been reimbursed, if your think you're reimbursed, clearly, trump made a promise to reimburse you. whether he paid this out of his own pocket for trump, the intent is important. did you make this payment in order to influence the campaign results or the election results? well, if the answer is yes, then that is an excessive contribution to a campaign. if trump paid the money out of his own pockets, which he can actually do, it's not illegal to pay for someone's silence, but if he did that, he failed to disclose that. so either way you slice it, something is wrong. i mean, there's suspicion,
obviously, there should be. there should be anfession, whether the fec is going to make a criminal reference to the doj, we don't know, but the real mvp right now is stormy daniels. she's making her millions just like trump used the system to make his. >> thank you very much. >> campaign deja vu. president trump appearing to rally up supporters tonight in pennsylvania month after the roy jones loss, can he drum up enough support to drum up rick saccone.
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rick is a great guy. and special. he's a special person. >> you won this district by 20 points. >> right. >> can he do as well as you? >> i hope so. i said to him, i hope you do as well. we're here. we're going to be helping. i'll be back for rick. and we're going to fill up the stadium and do something really special for rick. i look forward to it. >> he's going to be back. that was president trump earlier this year promising to campaign for rick saccone in pennsylvania's 18th congressional district. he'll hold a campaign in the keystone state in an airplane hangar days before the critical election on tuesday. conor lamb, the democratic candidate, will battle sucone for a house seat in a district donald trump won by 20 points in the coun 16 election. geoff bennett is live in moon township, pennsylvania, with the latest. as you talk to voters in the 18th, what are they saying they think they're going to hear from the president tonight?
>> hey, david. they expect to hear a free wheeling speech, as many of the campaign style rallies tend to be, the ones the president has done. one of the things the president says he'll do is try to rev up the republican base ahead of this special election for this open congressional seat here in pennsylvania's 18th district. the president in just the last hour or so sent a tweet giving some indication of what he might say tonight. the president posting this on twitter. heading to moon township, pennsylvania, to be with a really good person. state representative rick saccone, who is running for congress. big and happy crowd. why not. some of the best economic numbers ever. rick will help me a lot. also tough on crime and borders. loves second amendment and vets. the challenge for the president is trying to make sure that enough voters in this district feel the same way about rick saccone as he does. at the moment, it appears rick saccone is running neck and neck with the democratic challenger in this race. conor lamb. in a district that is tailor made for republicans. you mentioned the fact donald trump won this district in 2016 by some 20 points. the reason why is because there
are a lot of white working-class voters who make up the core of the trump base. the question is, can the president transfer his base of support to rick saccone? just yesterday, i was at a campaign event for conor lamb, and i spoke with a steel worker, the steel workers union is supporting lamb's candidacy. i spoke with jim watt, in the steel industry for about as long as i have been alive. i asked him if he thinks a democrat can win in this district. here's a bit of what he said. >> is it unusual for a democrat to be doing so well in this district? >> no, not at all. not at all. >> why not? >> it's a strong democratic registration area. allegheny county, in the 18th district, is heavily democrat. and the people are seeing through the rhetoric that the republicans are putting out there, the false ads they're putting on tv. >> so it's a heavily democratic district on paper, but those registered democrats have been voting republican for years. so it's a razor thin race with
both sides looking for clues about what it might mean for the 2017 midterm, 2018 midterm. >> we'll check in with you throughout the afternoon. thank you very much. geoff bennett joining us from moon township. >> joining me now, adrienne elrod, and jen kearns with me as well. former spokesperson for the california republican party. let me start by asking you, jen, about the ramifications of this race. we had a number of these special elections. you look at the tea leaves. you try to see what it might tell you about the midterms going ahead. with you look at this race in particular, and geoff talking about the pukuehl arties about it, what is it going to tell you about how it turns out on tuesday? >> the most interesting story is regardless of whether the democrat lamb wins or not, there will be one loser in this, regardless, and that's nancy pelosi. i know some people don't like to hear that, but if the democrat loses tonight, pelosi loses that seat. but if she -- if he wins, pelosi also loses. if you look at how lamb, the democrat, has campaigned, he has
said that he will not support nancy pelosi for speaker of the house. should the democrats take the house back. i think that is very key. i think that sends a message across the country to other races and to other democrats that they don't need nancy pelosi's support to win. and the threat of not supporting nancy pelosi no longer exists in the democratic party. it's quite telling. tonight, i think you'll see president trump try to whip people into a frenzy, get that enthusiasm gap shortened a bit. i will concede this, as a republican, i am concerned about this enthusiasm gap. 63% of the voters who are backing lamb are democrats. shea say they're very excited to get to the polls. compare that to only 53% of republicans. i think that is something that the gop really has to be mindful of heading into had midterms. >> adrienne, i want to get your response to that. nancy pelosi, i talked to many members in the last few months, and some are less enthusiastic about her than they have been in the past. what's your sense of how much
support she enjoys from democratic members of the caucus right now? >> she enjoys a lot of support from democratic caucus members. look, this is not a race about nancy pelosi. this is a referendum against donald trump. he won this district by 20 points, which is hard to really, you know, underestimate the fact that you can swing from 20 points to potentially a five or six-point loss. 26-point spread, if you will, over a 14, 15-month period. again, this is more of a referendum on donald trump, if conor lamb, especially if he wins or even if he doesn't win and comes up two or three points short, this is a dramatic swing in this district. >> i want to get a sense of how you're processing the latest news about stephanie clifford, about stormy daniels. this story getting new legs in the last few days. it has become one that centers on campaign finance in particular. are we going to see democrats talking about this more, do you think? >> i don't know. there's so many other things to talk about right now. you have the mueller investigation, you have senior staff leaving the white house,
this controversial tariff issue. i mean, there's so many issues to talk about. i think, frankly, a lot of democrats and republicans would like to not talk about this issue. yet it is significant. i think in the most recent development here that is significant is the fact there may have been an illegal corporate contribution made to cover this up. so i think we will continue to talk about it, but i think both parties would probably prefer not to continue to talk about stormy daniels. >> jen, i'm going to have you weigh in on that as well. it seems like this was something many republicans were content to say this was in president trump's private life, allegedly. now it becomes a campaign finance issue. does it become more worrisome to you as something that might be talked about? >> i it might. i don't think it is as significant as, say, the lewinsky scandal during the president bill clinton era where you had, you know, if this affair did happen, it was between two consenting adults. you look at that, compare that to the lewinsky scandal. you had someone in the employ of a president, you had someone who was a young girl at the time, a
president lying under oath for which he got impeached. there are some differences here. it will be interesting to see how it plays out, but so far, a lot of liberal attorneys saying there might not be much there. >> has the notion of family values changed for republicans. you would expect republicans to be speaking out more about this happening in the first place? >> look, during the campaign, and this is what campaign seasons are for, you saw donald trump on the campaign trail talking about how he was an imperfect person, he had sinned. this was a man who has been married three times, so you wouldn't think that would be the poster boy for the republican party, but here he is. also changed his mind on pro-life issues over the years. he used to be very pro-abortion, now he's very pro-life. so i think republicans do give donald trump a bit of leeway here because he has shown some authenticity on the issues and he's been honest with the voters about it. >> i know you have experience in working in california politics. the president announced he's headed there next week. jeff sessions came out strongly
against sanctuary cities last week. what does the political landscape in california look like to you as we go to the 2018 midterms? >> california has always been one of the most progressive states in the country, and it's only becoming more and more progressive there are quite a few republicans, as you know, who are in very tight races. republican incumbents in congress who are in tight races. so look, i don't think he's going to have a friendly reception at all. i want to applaud xavier becerra, the attorney general, for really going forward on some of these resistance policies that california has always been the state to sort of push forward on some of these progressive policies. again, a.g. becerra has done an excellent job of pushing back against doj's action on trying to remove sanctuary cities. >> jen, quickly, why is he doing that? why is he choosing to go to california in light of all that? >> president trump is not afraid to back away from controversy. i think he feels he has a good legal case here. legal scholars also believe that. it may take a couple years.
it may even go to the u.s. supreme court, i believe it will. but look, it's ironic to hear adrienne mention the attorney general is doing such a great job and he ought to be commended. this is the chief person who is supposed to make sure laws are being followed in california, yet they're breaking federal law. article i of the constitution clearly states the federal government has complete authority to enact immigration laws over any state. the tenth amendment also says that the federal government can revoke funding of those cities. so i think this is the first shot in a very long battle that's to come over the next couple years. >> thanks to both of you. appreciate both of your perspectives here. >> new details emerging in the stormy daniels saga, revealing the president's personal lawyer used trump company e-mail in an alleged payment of hush money to the porn star, which may have violated campaign finance law. the issue is whether there's evidence that $130,000 to daniels was sent just before the 2016 election made to silence her because the story could hurt trump's presidential candidacy.
joining me now, richard painter, former white house ethics lawyer under george w. bush. great to have you with us here. we'll talk about your potential candidacy for senate in a moment, but i want to get your reaction to this case involving stormy daniels. involving stephanie daniels, stephanie clifford,nd election law in particular. how strong do you think that case is? >> well, i don't know all the facts. we need to find out the facts. john edwards, senator in north carolina, was indicted and tried criminally because payoff money was used with a mistress of his by a campaign supporter. he was acquitted, but the person who made the donation was 100 years old and not able really to testify. i don't know what would happen in this case, but it appears to be a campaign contribution. also there was no disclosure of
this either to the federal election commission or on the president's candidate's financial disclosure form where he is supposed to be doing closing everything he has an interest in. so certainly things need to be looked into, but i wouldn't want to pre-judge the facts here. >> we've talked about conflict of interest in the context of president trump. if this were to remain in open court, what could we learn potentially? bearing in mind you don't know all the facts, but if we were to see this advance further, what questions would you have that could be answered by this going forward in open court? >> well, i don't know, there are two sides of this. there is the civil dispute between president trump and stormy daniels. that is one side. but the side i've been talking about is the potential prosecution for an illegal campaign contribution or for msz
representation on the financial disclosure forms. that won't be arbitrated at all. either there is a violation of the law as was alleged in the john edwards case or there is not. with respect to the stormy daniels lawsuit, we'll just see where that goes. i don't know whether that is really going to disclose anything that we didn't already know about donald trump before we went into this election. >> you're weighing a run for senate in minnesota. professor painter goes to washington wanting to crack down on corruption and problems in government. what are you thinking about as you lead to that decision, what will make up your mind whether or not to run? >> well, i want to have a constructive role in the debate with the other candidates over issues that voters in minnesota care about. and one of the things we're very worried about in this state is corruption in politics. the amount of money that is coming in through pacs and super pac s and dark many
organizations. and the fact that this race and other on races in this state are viewed as a competition between donald trump and mitch mcconnell and all the big gop fundraisers on the one hand and chuck schumer, nancy pelosi and the democrat fundraisers on the other. and that the whole blue way versus red tsunami really ignores the interests of voters. we need senators and congress members to represent us and our interests. and a lot of issues will be decided in the senate including the infrastructure proposals made by the president. and a lot of people out here are worried about any of that money will come to minnesota as opposed to going to the states with the most powerful senators and swing states. and we're tired of politics as usual. so i'm thinking about it race. i don't know whether to enter the democrat or republican primary. i've been a republican for 30 years. but the republican party certainly moved very sharply to the right compared with my
views. or to run as an independent. a lot of people are encouraging me to look at the independent route. >> as you look to stay dry here amid the blue wave and that red tsunami, how big an issue is money as you try to make up your mind here? you look at the money involved in running for office. how big a hurdle is that to you? you said you don't want to take money from pacs, just voters. that is difficult in this day and age. >> well, that may be. we'll find out. but i'm not interested in being a senator and being beholden to money interests and super pacs and all these organizations. they run attack ads just attacking the other candidate. what is shocking to me is voters even listen to those ads because they don't say anything helpful about the candidate they are supporting, they just attack the other candidate usually with a bunch of lies. and that of course undermines voters' confidence in government. and here in minnesota, we have good candidates. we already have several good
candidates for that senate seat. and i don't want money to be used attacking other candidates. that is not dignified, that is not what voters really want. i want to talk about ideas. and i don't need a lot of money to talk about ideas and talk about the issues. and then we'll let the voters decide. >> in the last 10 ekd seconds, is your deadline for deciding? >> sometime in april i'll be making a decision about which way to go forward. maybe sooner than that. either way we go, we need to select some signatures to get on the ballot. so we're looking at trying to figure out what is going on certainly within the next month or so. >> all right. thanks as always. in the next hour, rules of engagement, possible risks of a historic meeting between donald trump and kim jung-un and who in the white house doubts testimit ever happen.
joining us as hillary clinton's former spokesman, suggesting we worked for vladimir putin for daring to ask about nato and montenegro. it's a serious question because defense guarantees or serious promises. why would the united states promise to defend montenegro? speak out the nato treaty has kept the peace since world war . i don't want your son to fight and montenegro. i don't want him to fight in germany or any of other of the9 nato countries but you are presenting nato as something likely to trigger a war when nato is in fact what has avoided war. while the soviet union has fallen, the russians are incredible -- >> tucker: the reason i thought of montenegro and suggested there was some putin reason why you did, there was a much more prosaic reason because it just joined nato.
are you suggesting we owe them a defense guarantee? >> i'm not looking at montenegro i'm looking at the full 29 countries. >> tucker: that's how bad decisions get made, one people to look at the statistics. >> how many times as the collective defense ever been triggered? >> tucker: once. >> once, and one was that? >> tucker: was after 9/11. world war i actually happened -- the fact is we are obligated to defend all of these countries, slovakia, albania, turkey -- what would happen if israel attacked turkey? that's not a crazy possibility, you could easily see a terror group backed by turkey, israel retaliates. suddenly we are obligated attack israel? >> is not every time anyone fires a shot, otherwise we would've been an 18 wars in the last 15 years. >> tucker: could you imagine a scenario --
>> no. >> tucker: i easily could have. >> we would never be in a shooting war with israel. >> tucker: in article five -- >> it's never been triggered because of the point of the terms are to keep the peace. >> tucker: here's a news flash, the intent of something is not always consistent with the results of it. we do things hoping for one outcome and very often get an entirely different outcome. imagine what could happen. >> we didn't create nato yesterday. we created it decades ago. >> tucker: must be really specific. >> the original nato which was 12 countries was to keep the soviet union in check. >> tucker: great goal. >> it's worked really well. europe was war-torn. something was working.
>> tucker: the world has completely changed. maybe the people in washington are so ossified and dumb they are failing to account for the total realignment of everything, the world is different from it was. >> are you saying montenegro should be part of it? >> tucker: i'm not saying we should pull out of nato. you're making possible the reckless charges of treason, what is the point of this? is the main adversary? >> i don't think it's in a kind coded message. i think people picked up because it was only a one and 28 chance of picking montenegro. >> tucker: i watch these other channels in there like -- every american voting for trump or not has an interest in answering the question, what's the point of this? no one consent can answer the .
>> nato has been part of our own defense. >> tucker: they're going to prevent russia from doing what? >> i know you hate when i said, russia is being aggressive again. they are being aggressive militarily. russian bombers are buzzing us over alaska, we have russian ships -- >> tucker: nato hasn't prevented any of that. >> may be they're incredibly afraid of the montenegrin's. >> tucker: do you think it would be worth your neighbors, my kids going to fight russia for the sake of the territorial integrity? >> i don't want to repeat myself four times but i firmly believe that it is nato that has prevented that. i want to nato four times in belgium. >> tucker: you should be a history teacher, i'm asking
about tomorrow. they want their kids to die defending slovakia? >> i know just outside i met leo and michelle from atlanta, georgia, and i think they understand that nato is important. they might agree that there is a montenegrin meltdown. >> tucker: outside all of the people working in think tanks in charge of our foreign policy who are responsible for wrecking the world, outside of that group of people does anyone think it's worth dying for slovakia? not one person. >> and i think people are enjoying the freedom that has been provided without having to spend too much time worrying about how it came. >> tucker: lou dobbs posts, one of the wisest people on television he joins us tonight. do you think america's obligation to defend the territorial integrity of
montenegro. >> i think the president isn't getting the credit he deserves for raising the issue of realigning nato. as you worry about whether we will defend nato, it seems to be the reaction that nato has saved the western civilization. the president of the united states is the one who in his campaign that started talking about reorienting nato. you talked about washington being ossified and dumb, this is a president who came in with bright ideas, who was attacked from every element of the establishment and those who are invested deeply in the status quo including nato. the reality is as we watch cable television today, the folks you were talking about on cnn are
really neocons of casual convenience. they are thrilled to be talking about the united states defending the poor folks of montenegro against the onslaught of mad russians. this is beyond the pale. the real answer lies in we have a president who saw years ago, he is driving this discussion because he can't get congress, he can't get through the national media to the important issues. what is nato doing? why are they expanding to 29 nations, many of them small, whether they are small or large, not particularly responsible in meeting the demands that are required of 2% of gdp for defense spending? we are being called upon to defend all of nato irrespective of the money they pay or their fighting capabilities.
>> tucker: we have an altruistic obligation to only act one is not in our interests. never wars that might benefit the united states ever, any war that we might have an interest and we can't do that because we are bad. >> you put it perfectly. we are compelled by a mysterious force to be altruistic to act again against our national interest and losing all of those lives and losing all of that money was not in our interests because we didn't do much with the people in saudi arabia and afghanistan who were responsible for september 11th and that was the incipient point of the conflict it is difficult for some to remember. the president has put it straightforwardly. he wants rationality, he wants things to make sense, he has talked endlessly over the last
two years to sometimes no avail that we need smart government we need brains, and we need people committed to changing the status quo that could strangle this country as well as western europe if we aren't careful. >> tucker: give me a war that protects america and i will support it. great to see you. sexist, racist, trader, not say, the left is running out of epithets for the president. what's next? physical action. we'll write that down after the break. fruits and veggies are essential to your health, but it's tough to get enough of their nutrients. new one a day with nature's medley is the only complete multivitamin with antioxidants from one total serving of fruits and veggies try new one a day with nature's medley.
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>> tucker: first he was a sexist and a racist than a literally hitler reborn. now he's a traitor to his country. the left has run out of possible verbal attacks on president trump, there are none left. all that's left is violence and at some on the left appear to be encouraging that. graduated from rhetoric to physical action. congressional candidate alexandra because he will cortes is progressives to occupy airports and ice offices to shut down immigration enforcement. former hillary clinton philippe raines has brought air horns to the white house in an attempt to keep the president and his family from sleeping. congressman maxine waters from los angeles wants administration officials harassed and plenty of regular people seem to be on board with that. that shouldn't surprise you. they have been told for months
by the progress and progressive leaders that the president is a secret agent working for our greatest enemy vladimir putin. if you really believed that, what wouldn't you do? why wouldn't you use violence to save your country? you probably would. things might get worse from here, the weather is getting hotter, we have six weeks to go until september. harassment and occupation could turn to something worse. people are being primed for that and the left is recklessly egging it on. literally for the sake of foreigners, or montenegrin zoo must be ready to die for for some reason the illegal immigrants who now have a god-given right to enter this country. nobody on the left is occupying purdue pharma to protest the opioid epidemic. the tens of thousands of people killed by opioids last year were mostly born in america. they don't help big business or get democrats elected so they don't matter.
congressman, what's the penalty for treason? >> good evening. the penalty we are all paying right now for the president's treason is we are losing our allies. we see a wrecking ball threatening our freedoms here at home. by the president's own definition of treason let's use that. >> tucker: what's your definition of treason? >> betrayal of the american people. >> tucker: treason is a capital offense. >> why doesn't his definition matter? i'm telling you he's the president he said democrats committed treason when we didn't stand up for him at the state of the union. >> tucker: treason is punishable by death, it's an actual crime and i think you are an attorney you would know that. when you tell your constituents that the president of the united states has committed a death penalty offense, are you concerned that possibly you are torquing up the rhetoric past the point of reasonable
conversation? >> the president by his own definition -- >> tucker: don't blame the president. i want to know what you think. you're accusing the president of a capital offense. why wouldn't it be more useful for the rest of us to explain specifically the policies you disagree with and we can have a debate on them? if you think the united states has an obligation to defend nato members, tell us why. instead he set treason is not say, do you think that's helpful? >> i didn't call him a but why don't you have a problem if the president of the united states wants to turn over an innocent u.s. abbasid or to the russians, do we draw the line somewhere? >> i have a problem with a lot of things president has said. i'm asking you is one of the people accusing the president of treason if that's helpful?
is not the kind of rhetoric as an elected official, you think spurs thoughtful constructive conversation to bring the country together or does it with the into frenzy and increase the likelihood of violence? >> i think it's a beautiful country that has always added freedoms that we have a wrecking ball president right now. >> tucker: why are you doing this? >> you may not like the answer. >> tucker: working within enemy, russia is an enemy. so every president who met with russia is committing treason? >> he had a private meeting, agree to turn over eight u.s. ambassador to an enemy and sided with them over our own intelligence committee, at what point do you draw a line and say that's not a u.s. president? that's the prime minister of russia defending the president of russia? >> tucker: you think the president is more loyal to russia? you're a member of congress.
>> your yelling right now. >> tucker: i'm shocked that you're talking like this. >> do you want to be led by somebody who sides with russia over the united states? >> tucker: don't call into question -- >> he sided with them over our own intelligence. >> tucker: stop for one second. you think it is treasonous for an american president to meet privately with a head of state who we don't get along with, is that what you're saying? >> i think it's a betrayal of the united states to side with russia over our own intelligence committee, to turn over a u.s. ambassador to russia who was innocent. >> tucker: should the president to meet with the leader of china, obviously a dictatorship, kills its
political enemies, practices of censorship, a great deal of censorship it and flex on american companies, should he meet with the chinese premier or would that be treason as well? >> if were going to get something out of it, we didn't get anything out of -- >> tucker: a lot of your constituents money from china as we know. >> don't insult the bay area. >> tucker: i'm noting a fact which is china makes a lot of your constituents rich, there a more repressive country than russia, let's be real. that freedom stuff doesn't mean squat to you. >> tucker: let's focus on the country that attacked us. the saudis beheaded people, they don't let women drive until recently that's okay with you. >> i see why you want to distract. >> tucker: i'm trying to know what the rules are here. >> tell me why you're okay with what the president did
yesterday. >> tucker: meeting with putin? because he is one of the most powerful leaders in the world. >> are you okay with that? >> tucker: he is skeptical of american intelligence report. >> don't give me the talking points, are you okay with him citing with russia? >> i'm never okay with an american official siding with a foreign government over our own. i am okay with american leaders meeting with heads of state we disagree with. i would like to interview putin, does that make me a traitor? >> what about turning over the ambassador to the russians, do you have an opinion on that? it sounds like you don't. >> tucker: we've run out of time. but i would urge you to stop using the term treason because i think it's mindless.
>> i'm using the president's definition. >> tucker: dave robe and host rubin report on youtube and he joins us tonight. the problem i have with the rhetoric is that it makes any kind of intelligent conversation impossible. i do think there are real issues at the heart of the putin summit and whatever view you want on them they seem like they are worth discussing. the second you start calling people traders, accusing them of a felony how can you talk those issues through? >> it's always good to be with you you racist homophobic, on that note the rhetoric on both sides but particularly the left has been ramped up to the point where they are getting to the
place where we will be excusing violence. this mob mentality that we have talked about a bunch of times before, it's spreading everywhere. i did a video a couple months back about how internet culture is becoming mainstream culture. the trolling and attacking and fighting that used to be relegated to the basement of the internet is now leaking out everywhere and our politicians are telling people to troll people at their homes and all of this awful stuff. a great simple example that i gave you is when i was on the car right over here to do this show, hollywood director, actor, producer a great guy i know who was a lefty who you would disagree with on a ton of stuff, mark duplessis who's been reaching across the aisle, trying to say to the liberals let's try to be a little more tolerant. he put out a tweet saying you might want to follow conservative ben shapiro he's a decent guy and it will open up
your eyes to some stuff, i'm paraphrasing. the amount of hate that he got caused the guy to delete the tweet because the mob just goes after anyone who dares say let's be tolerant. that's really where were at, you've been talking on your show about quite some time how this all escalated to violence. if we can't talk the only thing left is violence. i'm doing everything i can to avoid that, i think you're trying to do it and i think there's a bunch of other people trying to do it too. i think we have to get louder and keep showing people that's truly the answer. >> tucker: i hate violence and if you ever hear me excusing it i hope you call me on it. rand paul may be one of the very few lawmakers on either side who sees value in the president meeting with vladimir putin. is he a traitor too? he joins us to answer that question ♪
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>> tucker: someone who does not think that the the presides meeting with putin is a treason is at senator rand paul of kentucky and he joins us tonight in the studio. the former director of the cia you think of that is a sober minded responsible pertinent, a james bond with an advanced degree, here you have a naked partisan nut cake describing a press conference as treason. >> it makes me wonder whether he's getting the government pension if he is calling the president treasonous. that's about as overtop as you can imagine. >> tucker: treason is a death penalty offense, he is describing views with. >> you have to realize john brennan starting his illustrious career by voting for the communist party back in the 70s. when he came to be head of the cia, i filibustered him because
i thought he was bad news from the very beginning. this is one of the most powerful people in the world who has the ability to destroy anyone, and yet with all of that power he was coming to work each day with bias and hatred of the president, it should worry us all. what are things he could possibly be doing with that power? we need more checks and balances on the intelligence community, james comey, john brennan, james clapper. >> tucker: it's an irresponsible thing to say it's not a defense of the president or any figure to accuse someone of treason, it's a very big dea deal. i want to ask you about montenegro. a consensus formed in washington today that america has a moral obligation to protect the territorial integrity of montenegro, if montenegro is
attacked americans have a moral obligation to die to protect montenegro, do you think we do? >> here's what people who have talked about nato expansion have said. when you add montenegro, does it add to our national security or does it increase our strategic risk of war? i think it's more the latter. when you add montenegro or albania, we have a resolution before us in congress that i have been opposing that says anybody in the world who wants to join nato, anyone who was qualified can. we can have 50, 60 countries, we could have equatorial guinea in there and if molly attacks equatorial guinea, were going to have a world war. >> tucker: who would back at something that lunatic? >> we had a vote and i tried to strip out to the any aspirant can join nato and it lost 20-1. every member of the foreign relations committee voted against my amendment and all it would have done is strip out the section that we invite any aspirant to join it.
>> tucker: do you believe the average american has any idea that we are obligated by treaty to protect countries that nobody in america can find on a map bunt >> nobody knows that. people in washington are unified that anyone should be in nato, the whole world should be in nato even if they are former soviet satellites. oblivious to the fact that that could give get us involved in world war iii, but if you ask average republicans, average democrats do you think we should put every country into nato and defend every country in the world, most people would say i don't believe that. >> tucker: thank you for bringing this to public detention, we should at least have a debate on it. u.s. territory has authorized the seizure of guns from private citizens, they said it would never happen but it happened. one congressman has been paying
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♪ >> tucker: just before hurricane irma, the governor of the u.s. virgin islands issued a remarkable and disturbing executive order that authorized the seizure of private guns and ammunition. the hurricane has been over for a year but he has continued to remove that order setting the precedent that virgin islands residents can have their weapons seized by the government at will at any time. why is this happening in the territory controlled by the united states? congressman bob matt represents utah, he joins us. thank you for coming on. this seems like something that couldn't happen in any place controlled by the united states and yet it is. >> it ought not to happen, ironically enough after katrina hit in new orleans, the mayor tried to do that same kind of
executive order, and eventually the courts ruled that was unconstitutional. this is the question. he said different things about it, the order that would've allowed people to confiscate the weapons and ammunition and other property -- i don't know how you define that one. he said he never intended to do it, this is a way of the national guard getting ammunition and guns without using the normal procurement system, i don't know what that means. our committee and we are sending a letter with chairman goodlatt goodlatte, asking them for documentation and information to find out if any guns have been seized and why would you make this order in the first place and why would you keep renewing? he is renewed at different times well after the danger is gone and trying to realize if a hurricane as devastating as those two hurricanes were, if
that ever justifies the denial of a civil liberty or the denial of a constitutional right. >> tucker: why not ban free speech, people say inconvenient things during disasters, why not put them in jail? >> it would seem consistent with what they are trying to do just because there is an emergency. i'm not denying, i've been there, i know how devastating it was for the island. it still does not justify what this appears to justify. we don't know if it has been used or implemented or if anything has been confiscated that's part of the information that we want. we do want to ask why you would do this in the first place, as i set the territorial law that allows us to take place is very similar to what was ruled unconstitutional after katrina. >> tucker: when i covered it, i was there. that's when you need a gun, when lunatics are preying on the wea weak. >> that's one of the purposes of why the second amendment is not about collection it's an individual right.
were going to send the letter out tonight, we're going to be looking into this. >> tucker: a pro-gun activist is sitting in jail right now the government is trying to deny her bail, she's accused of breaking a law of promoting a russian interest in the united states. who is this person, what laws did she break. a kind of mysterious story were going to try to answer the basic question coming up next.
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activist. according to the government she illegally worked to promote russian interest in the united states. the government is trying to deny her bail, what did she do? it's not clear -- we asked them to tell us. i read this carefully i'm not defending her eye had no idea if she's a good person or not. from what i could tell she didn't steal anything, i couldn't understand what her agenda was. from the news story "the washington post" made it sound like she's trying to bring the u.s. and russia closer together and now she's accused of a crime. >> it's a very mysterious case. it appears she was in touch with russian intelligence agents. she was some sort of agent of russia. she comes over here and appears to want to really insinuate herself into political organizations like the nra. seeming to concentrate on conservative political organizations.
she had a shtick. she wanted to start a pro-gun nra like organization in russia as if you could have one of those. a lot of american conservatives thought that was really cool. she's going to do this in russia? that's great. according to the court papers she had a live in relationship with a man who was very connected in the nra, a former politico out of south dakota, the government says pretty clearly she was doing that as part of her work. >> tucker: is that her governments business? >> the question is what she was doing what is the point of this? >> tucker: what's the crime? >> she's actually charged. what's interesting is she is charged with representing a foreign country without registering witches become a hot crime. >> tucker: how many people in this city are lobbying for
foreign governance not registered? >> a huge number. what a smaller number now. i think this is a weird story. >> it is a weird story and i've had people say to me if the fbi had evidence that she was in touch with her russian handlers over the nuclear codes, she would not have been charged with this foreign registration. this is not serious like that. cases like this do sometimes end with the united states deporting the person and they can't come. >> tucker: if they did something wrong, charged with i it. last year george papadopoulos pleaded guilty to making false statements to the fbi, his wife testified to the house until committee in relation to the russia investigation, she voluntarily did that and she joins us now to tell us what
happened. the democrats asked you to come and talk to them, what if they ask you? >> they asked me about my relationship with the famous professor -- and the man i used to work for which is the link between me and the investigatio investigation. i explained to them that according to my knowledge, he has ties to western intelligenc intelligence, and so i invited invited -- >> tucker: were more than a year into this, you're the wife of someone at the center of this case if it is even a case, why did it take this long to talk to you?
>> i have no idea, i don't know why it took so long. i voluntarily intended the meeting, george is misunderstoo misunderstood. we talked about him as the mastermind of russia which is completely ridiculous, he just happens to be someone who casually talks about -- hillary clinton's emails and then he never did anything with those emails. >> tucker: paul manafort is about to get a life sentence for tax evasion and not registering under pharaoh, are you worried about getting caught up in this? >> i am quite confident i can protect myself and i've always said the truth. i hope that the truth will come out. i'm not sure if it's russia collusion at all.
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Former Westchester County, N.Y., D.A. Jeanine Pirro discusses the week's biggest legal stories.
or four of them out. judge jeanine: i know you will have more to say tomorrow morning on "fox news sunday." now to my opening statement. you know, americans elected the outsider businessman president. why? to borrow a phrase from the man himself. what do we have to lose? the economy was in the tank, our kids western living in the basement because they couldn't find a job. factories were closing down, jobs and manufacturing were being shipped overseas, and in trade, china was sucking us dry. the obama folks called it a healthy economy but there was barely a pulse. 1% annual gdp growth was the new normal and president obama warned donald trump's election would result in economic disaster for all americans. >> some of those jobs of the past are just not going to come
throw us into a recession. the last thing we need. he would undermine the growth that we have had since the great recession. >> in the event donald wins i have no doubt in my mind the markets tank. his tax plan in combination with his refusal to reform entitlements and honestly address spending would balloon the deficit and the national debt. so even though donald trump is offered very few specific economic plans, what little he has said is enough to know he would be very bad for american workers and american families. judge jeanine: then was paul krugman, a nobel prize wing economist. he said the stock market will plummet and never recover from the election of donald trump.
so we are very probably looking at a global respecial no end in sight. some are so blienltd by their hatred of donald trump, they forget decades of training in their own field. as america surges forward with more jobs than people to fill them, with african-american and hispanic unemployment the lowest in history and millions coming off food stamps because they want to work. the left, they rant and protest and create chaos. thp. they throw people out of restaurants and off television shows. they even go to church and say god sent them to destroy donald trump. the left doesn't care about our economic success. all they want to do is make noise. but it's nothing more than background noise. white noise. the truth? no one is paying attention to them. his numbers continue to increase
and his popularity just keeps going up. after he met with putin and was accused of everything from collusion to treason, an offense punishable by death, his numbers continued to go up. when are they going to realize their yelling and screaming is nothing but a distraction, nobody cares. we care about food on the table, paying the rent, the mortgage, paying for kids clothing for school. but no, they want to talk about whores and porn stars or a lawyer they are squeezing so tight he'll confess to sinking the titanic. despite a media focused on a whack-a-mole russia collusion nonsense and the haters continue to hate, the president has thundered forward with his america first agenda. the 45th outsider president often work without the support
of his own party has produced a gdp that no one thought possible, 4.1%. and we are on track to hit the highest average growth rate in over 13 years. what have you got to say to that, barack, hillary and all you geniuses? we are flying folks. this is the america donald trump had in mind when he asked us, what do you have to lose. that's my open. tell me what you think on my facebook, twitter and instagram hashtag judge jeanine. if you loved mire open you will love my new book. it's a "new york times" number one best seller. get your copy if you haven't already. here with reaction to my opening
statement, hogan gidley. talk to me about the economy and my open. >> you are absolutely right, judge. remember when donald trump was elected as president of the united states, so many people said the economy wouldn't just tank, but it would never recover from what he would do to this economy. here we are with 3.5 million jobs created. regulations cut. we are open for business. this president mass gone on the global stage and said other countries have to pay their fair share in nato. in he said to our friends and allies, we are the piggy bank of the world and it stops today. i was in granite city, illinois when he gave that speech to the steel plant, u.s. steel. i watched the tears on the faces of grown men who told us they hadn't had a job in two years because barack obama told them
those times of jobs were gone and would never come back. 1% gdp growth was the new normal the experts said. this president proved people wrong yet again. americans are back to work. it's an incredible time and it's due to this president's economic policy. judge jeanine: people who want the work, people who pay their taxes and follow all the rules, they are the ones who deserve the effort of this government. and speak of that, i want to talk about the ash lition of i.c.e. it seems the democrats pulled back on it because they were doing polls and most of of the american people are not in support of the abolition of i.c.e. we have ocasio-cortez who beat joe crowley in new york for the primary, now kirsten gillibrand, they are saying we have to
abolish i.c.e. they are serious. >> it, incredible. anyone who wants to abolish i.c.e. either have no clue what i.c.e. does or they have decided to ignore the safety and security of their constituents. ms-13, the blood this city gang. they focus on smuggling, human trafficking, drugs. they are there to stop that. this president stands up for the hard working men and women who put their lives on the line every day and work for ice. democrats say we are going to stand with ms-13 whose motto is kill, rape and control. judge jeanine: the remains of american soldiers from the korean war are now coming back. how many administrations before donald trump tried to get read
mains of american soldiers. there have been several. but this president actually delivered. they said these things he promised would never come fruition and here we are on the precipice of getting repatriated remains of those people in the military. i talked to some sphoaks folks who served and their surviving loved ones. it was a sense of pride, peace and closure they never would have had except for this president it's amazing. judge jeanine: it is amazing, and it's all about closure for these families. dan bongino and chris hahn standing by on the panel. bust more on tonight's breaking news you heard from rudy giuliani right here. congressman ron desantis weighs in on the trim -- the
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giuliani telling us explosive details how they believe someone played with the trump-cohen recording. joining us, congressman ron desantis who joins me now. first time i heard that tape and then there was a break at the point where it seemed to be in the president's favor and then it was garbled. i said to myself that would never be admissible. then it's sent over to cnn. they have been trying to get forensic analysts to see if it has been tampered with but they can't get the originality tape to see fit has been. >> this whole thing is very strange. $of the questions -- some of the questions involving the tape.
lanny davis is a democrat, a big clintonista. i don't know how much credibility that evidence will have. judge jeanine: the damage is done. i didn't because of my background. but they leaked it. it's not even an issue if they can admit it at trial. if they want to impeach they will say you know about that tape when you and i both not wouldn't be admissible in court. i want to talk about my favorite guy, rod rosenstein who is basically running the department of justice after he convinced jeff sessions to go hide in the closet. you guys wanted to impeach him. and i understand there was a resolution to have the guy impeached based upon what facts? >> a number of things.
he should have recused himself from this. he wrote the memo saying comey should be fired. and he signed one of the fisa extensions for carter page. those are critical issues with some of the information we are trying to get. he stonewalled to congress. they redacted material facts from documents provided to congress. this has not been adequate cooperation with the congress. these are important issues the american people have the right to. congress has limited tools. the problem with the impeachment is there weren't enough republican votes for it. i would like to see is proceed with contempt of congress. the problem is congress is gone for the august recess. so that is not going to be a viable vehicle until sometime in september. and by the time -- even if it
did get off the ground, i think it may be too late. judge jeanine: paul ryan wouldn't get on board and as i understand it, he didn't want this impeachment to go through or contempt of congress. here is the bottom line. am i somewhat right about paul ryan and the leadership. you come on and all your friends come on and you are trying to do it. somebody is stopping you. who is stopping you? >> the leadership is opposed to my resolution. judge jeanine: paul ryan. say his name. >> the speaker was opposed to it. getting some of this stuff short of that. i think that can be done and i don't know why that hasn't happened. you have people like nunez pushing, but we have certain issues involving what surveillance happened before july 31, 2016.
what informants were used. what about the dossier. those are easily answered questions from the department. judge jeanine: plus he threatened congressional staff. candace owens is still on deck with this week's most of outrageous statement. these two guys can't get enough of each other. chris hahn and dan bongino keep coming back for more. for drivers with accident forgiveness liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty ♪ if you have moderate to severe or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently.
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charged with arson starting a fire still burning in riverside county. officials say hundreds of structures are destroyed and hundreds more still at risk and tens of thousands of people have been forced to evacuate. pope francis is accepting the resignation from cardinal carrick after decade old sexual accusations. i'm marianne rafferty. now back to "justice with judge jeanine." president trump: we accomplished an economic turnaround of historic proportions. we have turned it all around. once again we are the economic envy of the entire world.
judge jeanine: that's president trump talking about the incredible news about the economy friday. former aid to chuck schumer and radio host chris than. and dan bongino. how are you going to wiggle your way out of what the president said. 1.5 million fewer prime age americans were working when he came into office. >> i will give him some credit for the economy, maybe not as much as he's giving himself. he didn't inherit a mess. the economy has been on an upward economy for years. and some people were front loading their exports. president obama had four
quarters better than this. and he created more jobs in his presidency than president trump has created. obama had a 5.1% growth in the second square and over 4% growth in the third square. he lost seats in the mid-term. jean require many all about sustainability and obama couldn't do it. >> chris is a little confused. president trump did inherit a mess. this is a fact. i know chris sometimes has a tough time with these things. but barack obama is the only president in united states history to never in two terms reach 3% gdp growth annually. keep in mind, one-term presidents have done it. he's also at the bottom.
he's one of the top five worst economic presidents in american history. and by the way. i know chris is going to try to wiggle out of this one. barack obama harmed him a 1.9% growth rate in the final square and 1.6% the final year and trump turned it around right away. judge jeanine: did you call up and tell him he was wrong, dan? >> i didn't want to bother him. i thought he might be sleeping. >> here the deal. my numbers are dead on for the second and third quairlts of 2014. let's not count for 3% growth before it hatched. president trump did not achieve it last year and he may not achieve it this year. obama got 2.9%.
he gets 3.1, i'll say hooray. let's not count our chickens before they are hatched and not give all the credit to him. we have been on an upward trend for years. >> that's just not true. he handed him a mess by any measure. i will give you this. i don't give any president good or bad credit for the economy. i give to it american entrepreneur. i think the president can do things to get the government out of the way. and i think that's what donald trump has done through the tax cuts and cleaning up the regulatory mess barack obama left us. barack obama was a disaster by any metric. labor force participation, wage growth. and i am surprised you didn't bring up. the employment cost index, donald trump his first year,
bested barack obama's 8 years. >> there is a long way to go between here and the end. judge jeanine: i have an idea, rinse, here is the bottom line, i can't yell because i have a sore throat. my mother called me during the break and said jeanine, you have to have some water. if the unemployment is the lowest it's been ever for african-americans, for minorities, we have more jobs than people to fill them. you can talk gdp until the cows come home. that's what matters. a job and the ability to take care of your family. i want to talk about this tape. chris, do you want to answer? go ahead. >> there is a lot of good and there is a lot of caution.
the deficit and the debt are growing dramatically. >> that's the trade deficit. the budget definite, those are different things. >> i give up. don't tell me on a saturday night i have to shave for this and i have to let him get away with this. for 8 years we had to deal with barack obama and record deficits. now i get, chris, i'm with you. debt and deficits stink. point stipulated. but please spare us the nonsense about debt and deficit after 8 years of barack obama. >> he reduced the budget deficit every year. >> chris always has a scam. he came into office with the
highest annual deficit in american history. if i owe $700,000 and make $50,000 a year and pay down $25,000. this is not an accomplishment. this is what obama did. he ran deficits every year. judge jeanine: all right, guys. thank you. now, how did a former attorney general make my list of the week's most outrageous statements? that's ahead. more on the trump-cohen tape. alan dershowitz joins me and you don't want to miss him. sweat the details. noticing what most will never notice. it's what you do. when the thing you're making... isn't a thing. it's your reputation.
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>> what we are investigating, how did that happen. what did happen. what was eliminated. and you have to raise that question with every one of these tapes. how many of them did he play around with? judge jeanine: developing tonight. that was president trump's attorney rudy giuliani on "justice" discussing the breaking news on the trump-cohen tape. joining me with the new book "the case against impeaching trump." harvard law professor alan dershowitz. yesterday you wrote an interesting piece in "the hill" on how an obstruction case against president trump should raise a flag for any civil libertarian irrespective of which side of the aisle they are on. tell me why. >> they shall trying to -- they are trying to stitch together an obstruction case on public
tweets. people don't obstruct justice in public. if you are going to obstruct justice you are going to do it in private. the idea the special counsel is trying to put together, he knows he doesn't have the case. he's trying to put together a case based on tweets, public statements, presidential statements dwab presidential action. that's so dangerous to civil liberties. today it's being used against trump, tomorrow it will be used against democrats and tomorrow it will be used begins in the audience. any civil libertarian ought to be outraged that this special counsel is trying to cobble together a case against president trump based on his tweets. judge jeanine: would you agree when some of the judges were looking at the travel ban, they were looking outside the four corners of the ban itself. this is fundamental contract
law. everything is weren't four corn of a contract or based on ways relevant to the specific issue. would you agree with that? if you don't, tell me. >> i completely agree. the majority of the supreme court said what the president said about the travel ban is not as important as what's in the words of the travel ban. you can't have a travel ban that would be constitutional if president obama issued it but unconstitutional if president trump issued it. judge jeanine: i want to talk about rudy giuliani. he talks about the tape, there is a break in the tape. it gets muddled. the first thing i thought is what's going on with this. what are your thoughts on it? >> 10 years ago i represented the former president of ukraine who was charged with a serious
crime and it was based on a tape. we were able to get the tape and put it through forensic analysis and prove they switched words on the tape and made him say things he didn't say. i don't know that happened here. all i know is this tape must be subjected to forensic analysis. we must stretch the word to find out exactly what the president said, what the context was, and most of important why it ended at a particular point. was that a decision made by mr. co-on end it there? was it erased because he said things that were exculpatory. the tape does not contain any evidence of crimes. how do i know that? a former judge made a determination that this tape is covered by the lawyer-client privilege. and criminal discussions are not covered by the lawyer-client privilege. so we have a judicial
determination that this tape does not contain elements of a crime. judge jeanine: you are talking about barbara jones the master on this who would not have handed over the tape if it were not covered by attorney-client privilege. >> absolutely right. nobody made that point and it's very important. there is a judicial determination it's not criminal. it's not a crime to seek advice from your lawyer as to how to deal with a complicated situation. every lawyer has had conversations like this with clients. in the end the client listens to you. but nobody should have heard this tape. judge jeanine: i agree, that's why you are a harvard professor. because you are so smart. she lots of those out -- she loves those outrageous statements. candace owens standing by live
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church sermon that she was sent by god to stop him. take a listen to this. >> i was sent to [inaudible] turning point u.s.a. communications director candace owens joins me with that and much more. i keep hearing that the left is on god's side. isn't god on the right? >> i can't believe she said this. it's so bizarre. this is a woman who advocates for violence. she tells people to go up and accost trump supporters. i don't believe this is what god wants exactly. i don't recall that exact
scripture. i do read the bible to be honest with you. i must tell you, the claim that god is on their side and at the same time calling for at the very left, harassment of public figures is shocking. let's go to the next one. sound on tape. >> are you seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring for 2020? >> i'm thinking about it and i'll make a determination sometime early next year. judge jeanine: that's former attorney general eric holder asking asked, you are seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring. this guy was held in contempt of congress for failure to hand over documents in the fast and furious scandal where our guns
were sent to the mexican cartel. >> he quite literally had blood on his hands. brian terry was the agent who was killed in this scandal. he was held in contempt of congress. the on sitting cabinet member ever to be held in contempt of congress. i can hear the channel lock him up all over again in 2020. he has a right to think about running, but he shouldn't think about winning. judge jeanine: holder never recused himself on any of this stuff. so when congress hold him in contempt there is no one to refer it to in the department of justice. the left is always smarter. they hang on to the power why the right. sessions this a closet somewhere. let's talk about chelsea handler.
is the man who vandalized trump's star on the hollywood walk of fame single? what say you, candace? >> this is not even that bizarre when it comes to chelsea handler. she advocates on behalf of ms-13, which is okay with molotov cocktails being thrown at the palestinian border. she has nothing to do at the end of the day but send wacky tweets. judge jeanine: finally as we go forward, closer to the 018 mid-terms, do you think this will get worse? >> what's going to get worse? everything? judge jeanine: the specific statements. >> it will keep getting worse. this is their strategy. i can't imagine it getting much
wackier. but with maxine waters it only seems to get much wackier and chelsea handler it only seems to get much wackier. judge jeanine: candace owens, thanks so much. we'll be right back. how do you win at business? stay at laquinta. where we're changing with contemporary make-overs. then, use the ultimate power handshake, the upper hander ...
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is number one on "the new york times" bestseller list. number one on "the washington post" bestsellers list. i want to take a moment to think everyone was been so supportive, especially the folks who took the time to come to my book signings. take a look. i've got pictures. here we are in the oval office with the president in washington in a book party there is there a huckabee sanders in washington, kelly in conway in dc and tom you know him from the show and jared kushner and donald trump junior in washington and wilbur ross, cabinet secretary in southampton. also, there is the mayor himself, mr. giuliani and former attorney general, also a federal judge and friends of mine from
montréal and alvin and stacy who came from montréal and there is pamela, also held a party for me and there is the united states senator lindsey graham. eric trump junior along with lera trump in new york city and there i am at a book signing in new jersey were so many people waited in line for. there is a crowd when i first came in and in smithtown, long island -- look at the stuff they cook for me and 300 people in smithtown. there is a guy i owe it all to, my sir lancelot who sat with me as i wrote and wrote and wrote, i owe it all to him. if you don't have your copy you can go to barnes & noble or any bookstore and don't forget to follow me on twitter.
and remember, i'm watters and this is my world. [♪] judge jeanine: breaking tonight, president trump's attorney, rudy giuliani with explosive allegations regarding the michael cohen tape. welcome to "justice," i'm jeanine pirro. and thank you for making "justice" the number one rated show on all of cable news all last weekend. my opening statement in a moment. but first rudy giuliani within the hour told fox news that experts have gone over the tape former trump attorney michael cohen allegedly made with the president and giuliani says quote somebody played around, close quote, with the tape. he says the trump legal team is trying to get to the bottom of
it. among other things he says he's trying to get access to the original full recording. a prospect giuliani concedes is slim. joining me on the phone with all of this breaking news is the man himself, president trump's attorney, mr. mayor giuliani. thank you for being us this evening. some shocking news tonight. >> yes, judge. we have to stop being shocked. i always thought of michael cohen as a responsible guy who was basically honest and extremely loyal to the president and the president was to him for many many years. i used to hear rumors about him about his character and things he did. now i find he does things like record his client and doesn't tell him. he abruptly ended that recording
as soon as the president said the word check. what we are investigating is how did that happen. why did that happen. what was eliminated. then you have to raise these questions with every one of these tapes. how many of them did he play around with. he has 180 tapes. and lanny davis his lawyer says he didn't intend to deceive. lanny davis has to confront the fact that with chris komo he took his phone and put it in the desk drawer and said i'm not going to record it. what do you mean you are not intend to go deceive. these clinton people think they can say something and we have him on tape putting it in a drawer. mr. mayor one and i both know you are a former prosecutor, i'm a former prosecutor. you have to lay a foundation for
i bought my own and gave three or four of them out. judge jeanine: i know you will have more to say tomorrow morning on "fox news sunday." now to my opening statement. you know, americans elected the outsider businessman president. why? to borrow a phrase from the man himself. what do we have to lose? the economy was in the tank, our kids western living in the basement because they couldn't find a job. factories were closing down, jobs and manufacturing were being shipped overseas, and in trade, china was sucking us dry. the obama folks called it a healthy economy but there was barely a pulse. 1% annual gdp growth was the new normal and president obama warned donald trump's election would result in economic disaster for all americans. >> some of those jobs of the past are just not going to come
back. and when somebody says like the person you just mentioned who i'm not going to advertise for that he's going to bring all these jobs back. how exactly are you going to do that? what are you going to do? there is no answer to it. he just says i am going to negotiate a better deal. how exactly are you going to negotiate that? what magic wand do you have? and usually the answer is he doesn't have an answer. >> i want to you tell your friends, don't let a friend vote trump. so here is the deal. he can't escape the math. math can be kind of inconvenience fit doesn't add up the way you want it to. and economists left, right, in the middle, all say the same thing. that trump's policies would
Former Westchester County, N.Y., D.A. Jeanine Pirro discusses the week's biggest legal stories.
so we are very probably looking at a global respecial no end in sight. some are so blienltd by their hatred of donald trump, they forget decades of training in their own field. as america surges forward with more jobs than people to fill them, with african-american and hispanic unemployment the lowest in history and millions coming off food stamps because they want to work. the left, they rant and protest and create chaos. thp. they throw people out of restaurants and off television shows. they even go to church and say god sent them to destroy donald trump. the left doesn't care about our economic success. all they want to do is make noise. but it's nothing more than background noise. white noise. the truth? no one is paying attention to them.
his numbers continue to increase and his popularity just keeps going up. after he met with putin and was accused of everything from collusion to treason, an offense punishable by death, his numbers continued to go up. when are they going to realize their yelling and screaming is nothing but a distraction, nobody cares. we care about food on the table, paying the rent, the mortgage, paying for kids clothing for school. but no, they want to talk about whores and porn stars or a lawyer they are squeezing so tight he'll confess to sinking the titanic. despite a media focused on a whack-a-mole russia collusion nonsense and the haters continue to hate, the president has thundered forward with his america first agenda. the 45th outsider president
often work without the support of his own party has produced a gdp that no one thought possible, 4.1%. and we are on track to hit the highest average growth rate in over 13 years. what have you got to say to that, barack, hillary and all you geniuses? we are flying folks. this is the america donald trump had in mind when he asked us, what do you have to lose. that's my open. tell me what you think on my facebook, twitter and instagram hashtag judge jeanine. if you loved mire open you will love my new book. it's a "new york times" number one best seller. get your copy if you haven't already. here with reaction to my opening
those times of jobs were gone and would never come back. 1% gdp growth was the new normal the experts said. this president proved people wrong yet again. americans are back to work. it's an incredible time and it's due to this president's economic policy. judge jeanine: people who want the work, people who pay their taxes and follow all the rules, they are the ones who deserve the effort of this government. and speak of that, i want to talk about the ash lition of i.c.e. it seems the democrats pulled back on it because they were doing polls and most of of the american people are not in support of the abolition of i.c.e. we have ocasio-cortez who beat joe crowley in new york for the primary, now kirsten gillibrand, they are saying we have to
abolish i.c.e. they are serious. >> it, incredible. anyone who wants to abolish i.c.e. either have no clue what i.c.e. does or they have decided to ignore the safety and security of their constituents. ms-13, the blood this city gang. they focus on smuggling, human trafficking, drugs. they are there to stop that. this president stands up for the hard working men and women who put their lives on the line every day and work for ice. democrats say we are going to stand with ms-13 whose motto is kill, rape and control. judge jeanine: the remains of american soldiers from the korean war are now coming back. how many administrations before donald trump tried to get read
mains of american soldiers. there have been several. but this president actually delivered. they said these things he promised would never come fruition and here we are on the precipice of getting repatriated remains of those people in the military. i talked to some sphoaks folks who served and their surviving loved ones. it was a sense of pride, peace and closure they never would have had except for this president it's amazing. judge jeanine: it is amazing, and it's all about closure for these families. dan bongino and chris hahn standing by on the panel. bust more on tonight's breaking news you heard from rudy giuliani right here. congressman ron desantis weighs in on the trim -- the
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giuliani telling us explosive details how they believe someone played with the trump-cohen recording. joining us, congressman ron desantis who joins me now. first time i heard that tape and then there was a break at the point where it seemed to be in the president's favor and then it was garbled. i said to myself that would never be admissible. then it's sent over to cnn. they have been trying to get forensic analysts to see if it has been tampered with but they can't get the originality tape to see fit has been. >> this whole thing is very strange. $of the questions -- some of the questions involving the tape.
lanny davis is a democrat, a big clintonista. i don't know how much credibility that evidence will have. judge jeanine: the damage is done. i didn't because of my background. but they leaked it. it's not even an issue if they can admit it at trial. if they want to impeach they will say you know about that tape when you and i both not wouldn't be admissible in court. i want to talk about my favorite guy, rod rosenstein who is basically running the department of justice after he convinced jeff sessions to go hide in the closet. you guys wanted to impeach him. and i understand there was a resolution to have the guy impeached based upon what facts? >> a number of things.
did get off the ground, i think it may be too late. judge jeanine: paul ryan wouldn't get on board and as i understand it, he didn't want this impeachment to go through or contempt of congress. here is the bottom line. am i somewhat right about paul ryan and the leadership. you come on and all your friends come on and you are trying to do it. somebody is stopping you. who is stopping you? >> the leadership is opposed to my resolution. judge jeanine: paul ryan. say his name. >> the speaker was opposed to it. getting some of this stuff short of that. i think that can be done and i don't know why that hasn't happened. you have people like nunez pushing, but we have certain issues involving what surveillance happened before july 31, 2016.
what informants were used. what about the dossier. those are easily answered questions from the department. judge jeanine: plus he threatened congressional staff. candace owens is still on deck with this week's most of outrageous statement. these two guys can't get enough of each other. chris hahn and dan bongino keep coming back forcusations.
judge jeanine: that's president trump talking about the incredible news about the economy friday. former aid to chuck schumer and radio host chris than. and dan bongino. how are you going to wiggle your way out of what the president said. 1.5 million fewer prime age americans were working when he came into office. >> i will give him some credit for the economy, maybe not as much as he's giving himself. he didn't inherit a mess. the economy has been on an upward economy for years. and some people were front loading their exports.
president obama had four quarters better than this. and he created more jobs in his presidency than president trump has created. obama had a 5.1% growth in the second square and over 4% growth in the third square. he lost seats in the mid-term. jean require many all about sustainability and obama couldn't do it. >> chris is a little confused. president trump did inherit a mess. this is a fact. i know chris sometimes has a tough time with these things. but barack obama is the only president in united states history to never in two terms reach 3% gdp growth annually. keep in mind, one-term presidents have done it. he's also at the bottom.
he's one of the top five worst economic presidents in american history. and by the way. i know chris is going to try to wiggle out of this one. barack obama harmed him a 1.9% growth rate in the final square and 1.6% the final year and trump turned it around right away. judge jeanine: did you call up and tell him he was wrong, dan? >> i didn't want to bother him. i thought he might be sleeping. >> here the deal. my numbers are dead on for the second and third quairlts of 2014. let's not count for 3% growth before it hatched. president trump did not achieve it last year and he may not achieve it this year. obama got 2.9%.
he gets 3.1, i'll say hooray. let's not count our chickens before they are hatched and not give all the credit to him. we have been on an upward trend for years. >> that's just not true. he handed him a mess by any measure. i will give you this. i don't give any president good or bad credit for the economy. i give to it american entrepreneur. i think the president can do things to get the government out of the way. and i think that's what donald trump has done through the tax cuts and cleaning up the regulatory mess barack obama left us. barack obama was a disaster by any metric. labor force participation, wage growth. and i am surprised you didn't bring up. the employment cost index, donald trump his first year,
bested barack obama's 8 years. >> there is a long way to go between here and the end. judge jeanine: i have an idea, rinse, here is the bottom line, i can't yell because i have a sore throat. my mother called me during the break and said jeanine, you have to have some water. if the unemployment is the lowest it's been ever for african-americans, for minorities, we have more jobs than people to fill them. you can talk gdp until the cows come home. that's what matters. a job and the ability to take care of your family. i want to talk about this tape. chris, do you want to answer? go ahead. >> there is a lot of good and
there is a lot of caution. the deficit and the debt are growing dramatically. >> that's the trade deficit. the budget definite, those are different things. >> i give up. don't tell me on a saturday night i have to shave for this and i have to let him get away with this. for 8 years we had to deal with barack obama and record deficits. now i get, chris, i'm with you. debt and deficits stink. point stipulated. but please spare us the nonsense about debt and deficit after 8 years of barack obama. >> he reduced the budget deficit every year. >> chris always has a scam. he came into office with the
highest annual deficit in american history. if i owe $700,000 and make $50,000 a year and pay down $25,000. this is not an accomplishment. this is what obama did. he ran deficits every year. judge jeanine: all right, guys. thank you. now, how did a former attorney general make my list of the week's most outrageous statements? that's ahead. more on the trump-cohen tape. alan dershowitz joins me and you don't want to miss him.
>> what we are investigating, how did that happen. what did happen. what was eliminated. and you have to raise that question with every one of these tapes. how many of them did he play around with? judge jeanine: developing tonight. that was president trump's attorney rudy giuliani on "justice" discussing the breaking news on the trump-cohen tape. joining me with the new book "the case against impeaching trump." harvard law professor alan dershowitz. yesterday you wrote an interesting piece in "the hill" on how an obstruction case against president trump should raise a flag for any civil libertarian irrespective of which side of the aisle they are on. tell me why. >> they shall trying to -- they are trying to stitch together an obstruction case on public
tweets. people don't obstruct justice in public. if you are going to obstruct justice you are going to do it in private. the idea the special counsel is trying to put together, he knows he doesn't have the case. he's trying to put together a case based on tweets, public statements, presidential statements dwab presidential action. that's so dangerous to civil liberties. today it's being used against trump, tomorrow it will be used against democrats and tomorrow it will be used begins in the audience. any civil libertarian ought to be outraged that this special counsel is trying to cobble together a case against president trump based on his tweets. judge jeanine: would you agree when some of the judges were looking at the travel ban, they were looking outside the four corners of the ban itself. this is fundamental contract
law. everything is weren't four corn of a contract or based on ways relevant to the specific issue. would you agree with that? if you don't, tell me. >> i completely agree. the majority of the supreme court said what the president said about the travel ban is not as important as what's in the words of the travel ban. you can't have a travel ban that would be constitutional if president obama issued it but unconstitutional if president trump issued it. judge jeanine: i want to talk about rudy giuliani. he talks about the tape, there is a break in the tape. it gets muddled. the first thing i thought is what's going on with this. what are your thoughts on it? >> 10 years ago i represented the former president of ukraine who was charged with a serious
crime and it was based on a tape. we were able to get the tape and put it through forensic analysis and prove they switched words on the tape and made him say things he didn't say. i don't know that happened here. all i know is this tape must be subjected to forensic analysis. we must stretch the word to find out exactly what the president said, what the context was, and most of important why it ended at a particular point. was that a decision made by mr. co-on end it there? was it erased because he said things that were exculpatory. the tape does not contain any evidence of crimes. how do i know that? a former judge made a determination that this tape is covered by the lawyer-client privilege. and criminal discussions are not covered by the lawyer-client privilege. so we have a judicial
determination that this tape does not contain elements of a crime. judge jeanine: you are talking about barbara jones the master on this who would not have handed over the tape if it were not covered by attorney-client privilege. >> absolutely right. nobody made that point and it's very important. there is a judicial determination it's not criminal. it's not a crime to seek advice from your lawyer as to how to deal with a complicated situation. every lawyer has had conversations like this with clients. in the end the client listens to you. but nobody should have heard this tape. judge jeanine: i agree, that's why you are a harvard professor. because you are so smart. she lots of those out -- she loves those outrageous statements. candace owens standing by live
to look at the
church sermon that she was sent by god to stop him. take a listen to this. >> i was sent to [inaudible] turning point u.s.a. communications director candace owens joins me with that and much more. i keep hearing that the left is on god's side. isn't god on the right? >> i can't believe she said this. it's so bizarre. this is a woman who advocates for violence. she tells people to go up and accost trump supporters. i don't believe this is what god wants exactly. i don't recall that exact
scripture. i do read the bible to be honest with you. i must tell you, the claim that god is on their side and at the same time calling for at the very left, harassment of public figures is shocking. let's go to the next one. sound on tape. >> are you seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring for 2020? >> i'm thinking about it and i'll make a determination sometime early next year. judge jeanine: that's former attorney general eric holder asking asked, you are seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring. this guy was held in contempt of congress for failure to hand over documents in the fast and furious scandal where our guns
were sent to the mexican cartel. >> he quite literally had blood on his hands. brian terry was the agent who was killed in this scandal. he was held in contempt of congress. the on sitting cabinet member ever to be held in contempt of congress. i can hear the channel lock him up all over again in 2020. he has a right to think about running, but he shouldn't think about winning. judge jeanine: holder never recused himself on any of this stuff. so when congress hold him in contempt there is no one to refer it to in the department of justice. the left is always smarter. they hang on to the power why the right. sessions this a closet somewhere. let's talk about chelsea handler.
is the man who vandalized trump's star on the hollywood walk of fame single? what say you, candace? >> this is not even that bizarre when it comes to chelsea handler. she advocates on behalf of ms-13, which is okay with molotov cocktails being thrown at the palestinian border. she has nothing to do at the end of the day but send wacky tweets. judge jeanine: finally as we go forward, closer to the 018 mid-terms, do you think this will get worse? >> what's going to get worse? everything? judge jeanine: the specific statements. >> it will keep getting worse. this is their strategy. i can't imagine it getting much
wackier. but with maxine waters it only seems to get much wackier and chelsea handler it only seems to get much wackier. judge jeanine: candace owens, thanks so much. welcome! hi there. so, what do you look for in a vehicle? sleek designs. performance. dependability is top on my list. well then, here's some vehicles that deliver on that. woah! wow. oh jeez! that's our truck! it's our truck! and they're our cars! that's my chevy! chevy's the only brand to earn j.d. power dependability awards across cars, trucks and suvs three years in a row. awesome. i'm proud. it's like a dynasty. it's impressive.
is number one on "the new york times" bestseller list. number one on "the washington post" bestsellers list. i want to take a moment to think everyone was been so supportive, especially the folks who took the time to come to my book signings. take a look. i've got pictures. here we are in the oval office with the president in washington in a book party there is there a huckabee sanders in washington, kelly in conway in dc and tom you know him from the show and jared kushner and donald trump junior in washington and wilbur ross, cabinet secretary in southampton. also, there is the mayor himself, mr. giuliani and former attorney general, also a federal judge and friends of mine from
montréal and alvin and stacy who came from montréal and there is pamela, also held a party for me and there is the united states senator lindsey graham. eric trump junior along with lera trump in new york city and there i am at a book signing in new jersey were so many people waited in line for. there is a crowd when i first came in and in smithtown, long island -- look at the stuff they cook for me and 300 people in smithtown. there is a guy i owe it all to, my sir lancelot who sat with me as i wrote and wrote and wrote, i owe it all to him. if you don't have your copy you can go to barnes & noble or any bookstore and don't forget to follow me on twitter.
Former Westchester County, N.Y., D.A. Jeanine Pirro discusses the week's biggest legal stories.
determine. you are right. we may never be able to determine that. but we have determined the fact that he tampered with the tape in the sense he abruptly mid-conversation turned it off. a guy that goes into a reporter and hides his thing and says i'm not taping it and it's taping for two hours. that's someone who didn't intend to deceive as lanny davis falsely said. judge jeanine: in order for the government to admit something into court they have to show a continuing custody and no changes or additions or deletions have been made. if they can't prove there are no addition or changes, and we don't know where it's been, could that be the reason it was leaked to cnn? >> isn't that interesting? atr last week at this time jay sekulow and i were being
throw us into a recession. the last thing we need. he would undermine the growth that we have had since the great recession. >> in the event donald wins i have no doubt in my mind the markets tank. his tax plan in combination with his refusal to reform entitlements and honestly address spending would balloon the deficit and the national debt. so even though donald trump is offered very few specific economic plans, what little he has said is enough to know he would be very bad for american workers and american families. judge jeanine: then was paul krugman, a nobel prize wing economist. he said the stock market will plummet and never recover from the election of donald trump.
so we are very probably looking at a global respecial no end in sight. some are so blienltd by their hatred of donald trump, they forget decades of training in their own field. as america surges forward with more jobs than people to fill them, with african-american and hispanic unemployment the lowest in history and millions coming off food stamps because they want to work. the left, they rant and protest and create chaos. thp. they throw people out of restaurants and off television shows. they even go to church and say god sent them to destroy donald trump. the left doesn't care about our economic success. all they want to do is make noise. but it's nothing more than background noise. white noise. the truth? no one is paying attention to them.
his numbers continue to increase and his popularity just keeps going up. after he met with putin and was accused of everything from collusion to treason, an offense punishable by death, his numbers continued to go up. when are they going to realize their yelling and screaming is nothing but a distraction, nobody cares. we care about food on the table, paying the rent, the mortgage, paying for kids clothing for school. but no, they want to talk about whores and porn stars or a lawyer they are squeezing so tight he'll confess to sinking the titanic. despite a media focused on a whack-a-mole russia collusion nonsense and the haters continue to hate, the president has thundered forward with his america first agenda. the 45th outsider president
often work without the support of his own party has produced a gdp that no one thought possible, 4.1%. and we are on track to hit the highest average growth rate in over 13 years. what have you got to say to that, barack, hillary and all you geniuses? we are flying folks. this is the america donald trump had in mind when he asked us, what do you have to lose. that's my open. tell me what you think on my facebook, twitter and instagram hashtag judge jeanine. if you loved mire open you will love my new book. it's a "new york times" number one best seller. get your copy if you haven't already. here with reaction to my opening
statement, hogan gidley. talk to me about the economy and my open. >> you are absolutely right, judge. remember when donald trump was elected as president of the united states, so many people said the economy wouldn't just tank, but it would never recover from what he would do to this economy. here we are with 3.5 million jobs created. regulations cut. we are open for business. this president mass gone on the global stage and said other countries have to pay their fair share in nato. in he said to our friends and allies, we are the piggy bank of the world and it stops today. i was in granite city, illinois when he gave that speech to the steel plant, u.s. steel. i watched the tears on the faces of grown men who told us they hadn't had a job in two years because barack obama told them
those times of jobs were gone and would never come back. 1% gdp growth was the new normal the experts said. this president proved people wrong yet again. americans are back to work. it's an incredible time and it's due to this president's economic policy. judge jeanine: people who want the work, people who pay their taxes and follow all the rules, they are the ones who deserve the effort of this government. and speak of that, i want to talk about the ash lition of i.c.e. it seems the democrats pulled back on it because they were doing polls and most of of the american people are not in support of the abolition of i.c.e. we have ocasio-cortez who beat joe crowley in new york for the primary, now kirsten gillibrand, they are saying we have to
abolish i.c.e. they are serious. >> it, incredible. anyone who wants to abolish i.c.e. either have no clue what i.c.e. does or they have decided to ignore the safety and security of their constituents. ms-13, the blood this city gang. they focus on smuggling, human trafficking, drugs. they are there to stop that. this president stands up for the hard working men and women who put their lives on the line every day and work for ice. democrats say we are going to stand with ms-13 whose motto is kill, rape and control. judge jeanine: the remains of american soldiers from the korean war are now coming back. how many administrations before donald trump tried to get read
mains of american soldiers. there have been several. but this president actually delivered. they said these things he promised would never come fruition and here we are on the precipice of getting repatriated remains of those people in the military. i talked to some sphoaks folks who served and their surviving loved ones. it was a sense of pride, peace and closure they never would have had except for this president it's amazing. judge jeanine: it is amazing, and it's all about closure for these families. dan bongino and chris hahn standing by on the panel. bust more on tonight's breaking news you heard from rudy giuliani right here. congressman ron desantis weighs in on the trim -- the
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giuliani telling us explosive details how they believe someone played with the trump-cohen recording. joining us, congressman ron desantis who joins me now. first time i heard that tape and then there was a break at the point where it seemed to be in the president's favor and then it was garbled. i said to myself that would never be admissible. then it's sent over to cnn. they have been trying to get forensic analysts to see if it has been tampered with but they can't get the originality tape to see fit has been. >> this whole thing is very strange. $of the questions -- some of the questions involving the tape.
lanny davis is a democrat, a big clintonista. i don't know how much credibility that evidence will have. judge jeanine: the damage is done. i didn't because of my background. but they leaked it. it's not even an issue if they can admit it at trial. if they want to impeach they will say you know about that tape when you and i both not wouldn't be admissible in court. i want to talk about my favorite guy, rod rosenstein who is basically running the department of justice after he convinced jeff sessions to go hide in the closet. you guys wanted to impeach him. and i understand there was a resolution to have the guy impeached based upon what facts? >> a number of things.
he should have recused himself from this. he wrote the memo saying comey should be fired. and he signed one of the fisa extensions for carter page. those are critical issues with some of the information we are trying to get. he stonewalled to congress. they redacted material facts from documents provided to congress. this has not been adequate cooperation with the congress. these are important issues the american people have the right to. congress has limited tools. the problem with the impeachment is there weren't enough republican votes for it. i would like to see is proceed with contempt of congress. the problem is congress is gone for the august recess. so that is not going to be a viable vehicle until sometime in september. and by the time -- even if it
did get off the ground, i think it may be too late. judge jeanine: paul ryan wouldn't get on board and as i understand it, he didn't want this impeachment to go through or contempt of congress. here is the bottom line. am i somewhat right about paul ryan and the leadership. you come on and all your friends come on and you are trying to do it. somebody is stopping you. who is stopping you? >> the leadership is opposed to my resolution. judge jeanine: paul ryan. say his name. >> the speaker was opposed to it. getting some of this stuff short of that. i think that can be done and i don't know why that hasn't happened. you have people like nunez pushing, but we have certain issues involving what surveillance happened before july 31, 2016.
what informants were used. what about the dossier. those are easily answered questions from the department. judge jeanine: plus he threatened congressional staff. candace owens is still on deck with this week's most of outrageous statement. these two guys can't get enough of each other. chris hahn and dan bongino keep coming back for
the quake triggered a landslide in the northern part of the island. a deadly night in new orleans. at least three people killed and seven injured in a shooting outside a restaurant. a nearby witness described hearing 13 to 16 shots in total just before 9:00 p.m. local time. the state police and atf are assisting the new orleans p.d. in their investigation. i'm marianne rafferty. now back to "justice with judge jeanine." now back to "justice with judge jeanine." president trump: we accomplished an economic turnaround of historic proportions. we have turned it all around. once again we are the economic envy of the entire world.
judge jeanine: that's president trump talking about the incredible news about the economy friday. former aid to chuck schumer and radio host chris than. and dan bongino. how are you going to wiggle your way out of what the president said. 1.5 million fewer prime age americans were working when he came into office. >> i will give him some credit for the economy, maybe not as much as he's giving himself. he didn't inherit a mess. the economy has been on an upward economy for years. and some people were front loading their exports.
president obama had four quarters better than this. and he created more jobs in his presidency than president trump has created. obama had a 5.1% growth in the second square and over 4% growth in the third square. he lost seats in the mid-term. jean require many all about sustainability and obama couldn't do it. >> chris is a little confused. president trump did inherit a mess. this is a fact. i know chris sometimes has a tough time with these things. but barack obama is the only president in united states history to never in two terms reach 3% gdp growth annually. keep in mind, one-term presidents have done it. he's also at the bottom.
he's one of the top five worst economic presidents in american history. and by the way. i know chris is going to try to wiggle out of this one. barack obama harmed him a 1.9% growth rate in the final square and 1.6% the final year and trump turned it around right away. judge jeanine: did you call up and tell him he was wrong, dan? >> i didn't want to bother him. i thought he might be sleeping. >> here the deal. my numbers are dead on for the second and third quairlts of 2014. let's not count for 3% growth before it hatched. president trump did not achieve it last year and he may not achieve it this year. obama got 2.9%.
he gets 3.1, i'll say hooray. let's not count our chickens before they are hatched and not give all the credit to him. we have been on an upward trend for years. >> that's just not true. he handed him a mess by any measure. i will give you this. i don't give any president good or bad credit for the economy. i give to it american entrepreneur. i think the president can do things to get the government out of the way. and i think that's what donald trump has done through the tax cuts and cleaning up the regulatory mess barack obama left us. barack obama was a disaster by any metric. labor force participation, wage growth. and i am surprised you didn't bring up. the employment cost index, donald trump his first year,
bested barack obama's 8 years. >> there is a long way to go between here and the end. judge jeanine: i have an idea, rinse, here is the bottom line, i can't yell because i have a sore throat. my mother called me during the break and said jeanine, you have to have some water. if the unemployment is the lowest it's been ever for african-americans, for minorities, we have more jobs than people to fill them. you can talk gdp until the cows come home. that's what matters. a job and the ability to take care of your family. i want to talk about this tape. chris, do you want to answer? go ahead. >> there is a lot of good and
there is a lot of caution. the deficit and the debt are growing dramatically. >> that's the trade deficit. the budget definite, those are different things. >> i give up. don't tell me on a saturday night i have to shave for this and i have to let him get away with this. for 8 years we had to deal with barack obama and record deficits. now i get, chris, i'm with you. debt and deficits stink. point stipulated. but please spare us the nonsense about debt and deficit after 8 years of barack obama. >> he reduced the budget deficit every year. >> chris always has a scam. he came into office with the
highest annual deficit in american history. if i owe $700,000 and make $50,000 a year and pay down $25,000. this is not an accomplishment. this is what obama did. he ran deficits every year. judge jeanine: all right, guys. thank you. now, how did a former attorney general make my list of the week's most outrageous statements? that's ahead. more on the trump-cohen tape. alan dershowitz joins me and you don't want to miss him. it's a pea-protein, gluten-free pâté.gman? (whistles) it's a burrito filled with plants pretending to be meat. here we see the artist making an attempt to bare his soul. it's just a gray dot. there are multiples on the table: one is cash,
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>> what we are investigating, how did that happen. what did happen. what was eliminated. and you have to raise that question with every one of these tapes. how many of them did he play around with? judge jeanine: developing tonight. that was president trump's attorney rudy giuliani on "justice" discussing the breaking news on the trump-cohen tape. joining me with the new book "the case against impeaching trump." harvard law professor alan dershowitz. yesterday you wrote an interesting piece in "the hill" on how an obstruction case against president trump should raise a flag for any civil libertarian irrespective of which side of the aisle they are on. tell me why. >> they shall trying to -- they are trying to stitch together an
obstruction case on public tweets. people don't obstruct justice in public. if you are going to obstruct justice you are going to do it in private. the idea the special counsel is trying to put together, he knows he doesn't have the case. he's trying to put together a case based on tweets, public statements, presidential statements dwab presidential action. that's so dangerous to civil liberties. today it's being used against trump, tomorrow it will be used against democrats and tomorrow it will be used begins in the audience. any civil libertarian ought to be outraged that this special counsel is trying to cobble together a case against president trump based on his tweets. judge jeanine: would you agree when some of the judges were looking at the travel ban, they were looking outside the four corners of the ban itself. this is fundamental contract
law. everything is weren't four corn of a contract or based on ways relevant to the specific issue. would you agree with that? if you don't, tell me. >> i completely agree. the majority of the supreme court said what the president said about the travel ban is not as important as what's in the words of the travel ban. you can't have a travel ban that would be constitutional if president obama issued it but unconstitutional if president trump issued it. judge jeanine: i want to talk about rudy giuliani. he talks about the tape, there is a break in the tape. it gets muddled. the first thing i thought is what's going on with this. what are your thoughts on it? >> 10 years ago i represented the former president of ukraine who was charged with a serious
crime and it was based on a tape. we were able to get the tape and put it through forensic analysis and prove they switched words on the tape and made him say things he didn't say. i don't know that happened here. all i know is this tape must be subjected to forensic analysis. we must stretch the word to find out exactly what the president said, what the context was, and most of important why it ended at a particular point. was that a decision made by mr. co-on end it there? was it erased because he said things that were exculpatory. the tape does not contain any evidence of crimes. how do i know that? a former judge made a determination that this tape is covered by the lawyer-client privilege. and criminal discussions are not covered by the lawyer-client privilege. so we have a judicial
determination that this tape does not contain elements of a crime. judge jeanine: you are talking about barbara jones the master on this who would not have handed over the tape if it were not covered by attorney-client privilege. >> absolutely right. nobody made that point and it's very important. there is a judicial determination it's not criminal. it's not a crime to seek advice from your lawyer as to how to deal with a complicated situation. every lawyer has had conversations like this with clients. in the end the client listens to you. but nobody should have heard this tape. judge jeanine: i agree, that's why you are a harvard professor. because you are so smart. she lots of those out -- she loves those outrageous statements.
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church sermon that she was sent by god to stop him. take a listen to this. >> i was sent to [inaudible] turning point u.s.a. communications director candace owens joins me with that and much more. i keep hearing that the left is on god's side. isn't god on the right? >> i can't believe she said this. it's so bizarre. this is a woman who advocates for violence. she tells people to go up and accost trump supporters. i don't believe this is what god wants exactly. i don't recall that exact
scripture. i do read the bible to be honest with you. i must tell you, the claim that god is on their side and at the same time calling for at the very left, harassment of public figures is shocking. let's go to the next one. sound on tape. >> are you seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring for 2020? >> i'm thinking about it and i'll make a determination sometime early next year. judge jeanine: that's former attorney general eric holder asking asked, you are seriously considering throwing your hat in the ring. this guy was held in contempt of congress for failure to hand over documents in the fast and furious scandal where our guns
were sent to the mexican cartel. >> he quite literally had blood on his hands. brian terry was the agent who was killed in this scandal. he was held in contempt of congress. the on sitting cabinet member ever to be held in contempt of congress. i can hear the channel lock him up all over again in 2020. he has a right to think about running, but he shouldn't think about winning. judge jeanine: holder never recused himself on any of this stuff. so when congress hold him in contempt there is no one to refer it to in the department of justice. the left is always smarter. they hang on to the power why the right. sessions this a closet somewhere. let's talk about chelsea handler.
is the man who vandalized trump's star on the hollywood walk of fame single? what say you, candace? >> this is not even that bizarre when it comes to chelsea handler. she advocates on behalf of ms-13, which is okay with molotov cocktails being thrown at the palestinian border. she has nothing to do at the end of the day but send wacky tweets. judge jeanine: finally as we go forward, closer to the 018 mid-terms, do you think this will get worse? >> what's going to get worse? everything? judge jeanine: the specific statements. >> it will keep getting worse. this is their strategy. i can't imagine it getting much
wackier. but with maxine waters it only seems to get much wackier and chelsea handler it only seems to get much wackier. judge jeanine: candace owens, paying too much for insurance you don't even understand?
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is number one on "the new york times" bestseller list. number one on "the washington post" bestsellers list. i want to take a moment to think everyone was been so supportive, especially the folks who took the time to come to my book signings. take a look. i've got pictures. here we are in the oval office with the president in washington in a book party there is there a huckabee sanders in washington, kelly in conway in dc and tom you know him from the show and jared kushner and donald trump junior in washington and wilbur ross, cabinet secretary in southampton. also, there is the mayor himself, mr. giuliani and former attorney general, also a federal judge and friends of mine from
montréal and alvin and stacy who came from montréal and there is pamela, also held a party for me and there is the united states senator lindsey graham. eric trump junior along with lera trump in new york city and there i am at a book signing in new jersey were so many people waited in line for. there is a crowd when i first came in and in smithtown, long island -- look at the stuff they cook for me and 300 people in smithtown. there is a guy i owe it all to, my sir lancelot who sat with me as i wrote and wrote and wrote, i owe it all to him. if you don't have your copy you can go to barnes & noble or any bookstore and don't forget to follow me on twitter.