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hoosier state they may not be able to stop him at all. trump and cruz engaged in a bitter and stunning exchange today. every time you think this race cannot get any more ludicrous, it does. it started this morning when trump cited a bizarre and uncorroborated report -- i use the term report loosely -- in the "national enquirer," the supermarket tabloid, which has endorsed trump and published by a friend of trump launching smear after smear against cruz and his family. think story shows a photograph from 1963, with a man soon to be standing with jfk assassin. it suggests the man is cruz's father, raphael. the problem is there's no proof na the photograph is cruzs. dad and cruz's dad says it's not him. mr. trump called in to the fox morning show and said the following -- >> his father with was lee harvey oswald prior to you know, shot. i mean, nobody even brings it up. they don't even talk about that. that was reported and nobody talks about it. what was he doing with lee harvey oswald shortly before the death -- before the shooting? >> i cannot believe i need to say the follow, here goes, there is no corroborated evidence that ted cruz's father ever met lee harvey oswald or any other presidential assassin. we, in the media, don't talk about it because there's no evidence of it. there is contrary evidence, well of about the picture was taken, raphael cruz's sister was brutally beaten by castro forces and raphael cruz denounced the regime. any suggestion that cruz's father played a role in the kennedy assassination is ridiculous. and, frankly, shameful. now that's not an anti-trump position or a pro-cruz position. it's a pro-truth position. cruz, for his part, is in the middle of two the work weeks of the campaign, having been clobbered in primaries, not to mention having made campaign missteps. today, went after donald trump in his harshest remarks to date. >> list. donald trumps a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. this is not a secret. he's proud of being a serial philanderer. i want everyone to think about your teenage kids. the president of the united states talks about how great it is to commit adultery, how proud he is, describes his battles with venereal disease, his own personal vietnam but boasts about his infidelity, he boasts a lie about me and my family, attacking my family, accuses others of doing what he is doing. i'll tell you, as the father of two young girls, the idea of our daughters coming home and repeating any word that man says horrifies me. that is not who america is. and i would say to the hoosier state, the entire country's depending on you. >> joined by our special election day panel right now. but we're going to begin tonight with jim acosta, he's at trump headquarters, in new york. jim? the jfk assassination? really? >> reporter: yeah, jake, this campaign united statesis a mystn a riddle inside an enigma. the trump campaign feels like it's a huge win, exactly like that huge with a y for the gop front-runner in response to the testy reaction from ted cruz that was offered up earlier today. the trump campaign feels it throws cruz off of his game. just as the senator was trying to paint trump to be unfit as president. the real estate was able to fire off a statement that cast cruz as desperate and flailing. the trump campaign has not provided any evidence to us to back up the claim that cruz's father was somehow involved in the kennedy assassination. cruz swore he would do something he would never do, and that's getting in a cage match. whether it be marco rubio, lindsey graham, jeb bush, so on. now for the primary itself later on this evening, we'll get returns coming in the trump campaign believe a convincing win makes the candidate a presumptive nominee. they won't hit the magic number of delegates but point out the math is getting easier week by week. one trump source told me they believe they will hit 1400-delegate goal they set a few weeks ago. they feel like that goal is within reach at this point. >> jim acosta, with the trump campaign. sunlen serfaty with the cruz campaign in indianapolis tonight. this has been a ruffle couple weeks for cruz, colossal losses the fiorina announcement of a running mate didn't do as much as he hoped. he really needs a win. how are they feeling? >> reporter: well, jake, it's quite clear that the cruz campaign is feeling anxious going into tonight. there's a striking shift in tone coming from ted cruz himself, really sensing the urgency of the moment, moment tonight that his campaign does face. it was a remarkable press conference as you guys have been talking about today with senator cruz, feeling unshackled in this moment, clearly frustrated by donald trump. really feeling at liberty to unload litany of charges going against donald trump. now, cruz campaign official tells me that fe loses here tonight he does intend to continue on with his campaign. another cruz official telling me they are going leave everything on the field going forward. intrinsic in that statement united states admission of a rough road that they have ahead, that of course determined how well they do here tonight. the cruz campaign already trying to announce campaign stops in the future. they just announced senator cruz will be campaigning tomorrow in nebraska and washington state, two states going forward. of course that intended to send a message we are going on. >> sunlen serfaty in indianapolis with the cruz campaign, thank you. joining me here for the hour, panel, david gergen, served as presidential adviser for four presidents, senior political reporter nia-malika henderson, john king, chief political analyst gloria borger, trump supporter, kayleigh mack kninny, trump supporter jeffrey lord, white house political director for ronald reagan and last, but not least, democratic strategist donna brazile, thanks one and all for joining me. john, a man who endorsed ted cruz, former governor pete wilson said, i believe today, if cruz does not win indiana that's going to make the whole road much much more difficult especially california, true? >> first, let me endorse the pro-truth position. >> appreciate. >> how quaint of you to try something like that. yes, it does. the republican party is preparing like it or not, those reluctantly embracing donald trump, those who will never embrace donald trump, they believe to be step forward as presumptive nominee of the republican party. he can't clinch with math but ted cruz in every way possible said indiana was his fire wall. they think from a math perspective, more from psychology, if trump wins but a healthy margin, it is over. over. watch republican money for candidates to dry up, watch republicans take that money, try to get it into house and senate race because the fact you started this program with talking about jfk assassination and conspiracy theories, i asked a strategist everybody if trump is your nominee what do you give a house or senate candidate? who words, run away. >> run away. >> and locally. if you can't support trump all the time, i was told that you've got to run like you're running for sheriff because they're now assuming that trump is going to be the nominee. look -- >> there are other republicans -- to point out -- republicans say, no, embrace him, he's the candidate. >> it depends where you are. for cruz, to get back to your original point, this is an extension political moment here for kasich as well, i might add. some say he should have had that existential moment. they say they're continuing on to the convention. if they do that, it will be from a position of weakness and that's a tough place to say to super delegates who kind of look at this and say, all right, maybe never trump, now it's maybe trump, maybe we ought to get bond the bandwagon. >> talking with a never trump person, the money they were hoping for did not come in. >> exactly. >> kayleigh, i want to play more of ted cruz's remarkable press conference earlier today and get your response. let's play that tape. >> i'm go tell you what i really think of donald trump. this man is a pathological liar. he doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. he lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. and in a pattern straight out of a psychology textbook his response is to accuse everybody else of lying. he accuses everybody on that debate stage of lying. and it's a mindless yelp whatever he does, he accuses everyone else of doing. the man cannot tell truth but combines it with being a narcissist. a narcissist at a level i don't think this country's ever seen. donald trump is such a narcissist that barack obama looks at him and goes, dude, what's your problem? he is lying to his supporters. donald will betray his supporters on every issue. if you care about immigration, donald is laughing at you and he's telling the money elites he doesn't believe what he's saying he's not going to build a wall, he will betray you on every issue. donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. this is not a secret. he's proud of being a serial philanderer. i want everybody to think about your teenage kids. the president of the united states talks about how great it is to commit adultery, how proud he is, describes his battles with venereal disease as his own personal vietnam. >> wow, tell us how you really feel, right? >> what do you make of that. >> it's interesting to me because, despite all of the things that ted cruz claims, he's a bad guy, philanderer, liar, two of the people have either endorsed him or tacitly supported him. ben carson, endorsed donald trump. mike huckabee didn't endorse him but his daughter works for him. these are evangelicals that should be endorsing cruz. rather than doing that, they're support be donald trump. what has donald trump done to get more republicans in the history of the republican nomination to get on board with him. i predike he'll have the most votes than any republican nominee. >> the jfk assassination charge, crazy. i made that clear at the start of the show. however's a question. did ted cruz take the bait? >> i don't think so. listen, when your father's under attack, i think you have to defend him. when you're wife has been under attack by the "national enquirer" it's a good thing to defend them. the trump supporters don't like it when somebody gives trump a dose of his own medicine. chris is being tame there considering all of the things that donald trump has thrown. >> i don't know. >> no, no, considering everything that's been thrown at him, not only by trump but his campaign, social media people, this has been very nasty, and ted cruz has acted with a lot of integrity. so, this really gets to the main problem with trump. this is how he's acting when he's winning. this is how he acts when he's winning. what does he act like when he's losing? i'm terrified to see. this is a problem, trump is not unifying the party. 4 he can stand next to ben carson but he's not a man of integrity through osmosis. people can't stand in line and say i'm going to follow that guy when you're spreading "national enquirer" tabloid trash. >> since we brought jfk into in is i hate to confess to the gray hair, watching ted cruz, november of 1962, richard nixon's last press conference, he lost a difficult race for governor of california against all advice, he descended to the ballroom of the hotel in los angeles. he had his 5:00 shadow and he went in those days for what passed for nuts, ending up with the famous line, gentleman, this is my last press conference, you won't have nixon to kick around anymore. it was emotionally off the charts. i would suggest, if senator cruz ever wants to be president of the united states, this kind of stuff, not just senator cruz, but to everybody who runs for president, governor kasich's campaign manager sent out a tweet calling him a liar. the kasich campaign super pac put out a commercial with his nose going around and around calling him a liar. this is what goes on in presidential campaigns and you've got to show ability to be steady, calm -- >> we'll come back. amanda, we're coming back. a video that's gone viral, 1400 workers told their jobs are gone. >> the best way to stay competitive to move production to monterrey, mexico. >> [ bleep ]. >> now, those lost jobs moving to mexico, a central issue in the campaign in indiana. who will win their vote? plus, a raw and candid moment on the campaign trail, hillary clinton apologizing. find out why. >> what i said was totally out of context from what i meant and it was a misstatement. >> counting down to the first exit poll results from the critical indiana primary minutes from now. stay with us. you listen when y: "i'm tired." or, "i'm hungry." what if your body said something else might be wrong? gynecologic cancers - cervical, ovarian and uterine cancers - have symptoms. so pay attention. if your body says something may be wrong.... please listen if it goes on for two weeks, see a doctor, it may be nothing but find out. learn the symptoms. get the inside knowledge about gynecologic cancers. real is touching a ray. amazing is moving like one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place where real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing the bud light party believes in change. that's why bud light has a new look... and we want to share it with everyone... from our national parks... to our furthest shores... jackpot! to your living room. look under your seats! [squeals of delight] still the same refreshing bud light. with a new look. ♪ gegiving up all the thingsan she loves to do. it should just mean, well, finding new ways to do them. right at home's professional team thoughtfully selects caregivers to provide help with personal care, housekeeping, and of course, meal preparation. oh, that smells so good. aw, and it tastes good, too. we can provide the right care, right at home. welcome back to a special edition of "the lead." we are fewer than two hours away from when polls begin to close in indiana. a local issue there is looming very large in the primary, air-conditioning plant, home to indianapolis, is relocating to mexico. that heartbreaking announcement caught on camera went instantly viral. >> best way to stay competitive and protect the business for long term is to move production from our facility in indianapolis to monterrey, mexico. >> [ bleep ]. >> donald trump, among others, has not let voters forget about it. >> i'm the one that brings up carrier all the time. carrier's my baby, i want to do the number on carrier. i'm going to tell them, right now i'm going to get consensus from congress and tax you when the air conditioners come. stay where you are or build in the united states! chris frates, one in five jobs in indiana is in manufacturing. is the closure of the carrier air-conditioning plant, is it influencing how some hoosiers are voting today? >> reporter: we talked to a couple of dozen voters, majority said this would influence them in a major way. ones who did have this on their mind, not surprisingly, voted for bernie sanders and donald trump. a 78-year-old woman who said carrier's decision helped her make her decision. donald trump was saying things that her and her husband were saying in their living rooms. we talked to a younger voter who said that bernie sanders anti-carrier stance convinced him to vote for sanders. sanders has been campaigning hard here in indianapolis against the carrier ceo, saying stop the greed and stop hurting the middle clasp so, that's not surprising either. when you look at the turnout here and the polls today, very big turnout here. the officials here telling me that they have seen more people come through the doors than they have in the past years. we've talked to county clerk as well. early voting in marion county, which includes indianapolis, up 95%. so, there may be a lot of balance to count just here today 1200 people already cast their vote and we still have a couple of hours left of voting. lots of votes to cast. we'll see how this issue plays out as final votes come in throughout the night. chris frates, thank you. joining me chairman of the indiana republican party, jeff cardwell. thanks for joining us. do flu think donald trump's focus on the carrier plant relocating from your state to mexico is resonating with voters heading to the polls today? >> well, i think it certainly is resonating. that's one of the reasons why jobs and economic development is so important to hoosiers across the state. what we're looking for most with the work that governor pence has been doing across the state of indiana, looking for a partner in the white house. >> chris cuomo asked donald trump how he would try to bring jobs back to america. take a listen. >> it's simple. we're going to make them pay. you're not going to take your company, move to mexico, make air conditioners and not have consequences. the consequences are a tariff or a tax. >> will that keep jobs in the news. >> one of the things, as a business leader, donald trump certainly had a lot of experience in leading businesses. a lot of regulation has really driven a lot of companies out of the united states, not only just indiana but across the united states. >> is that why carrier's relocating? >> well, i think that's part of the reason. i mean, you have more than 260 new regulations that have affected that company directly and regulations do matter. and it does increase the cost of doing business and, therefore, you lose businesses, not only in indiana but throughout america. i think we really do need to look at what we're doing to our companies across the united states with regulations. >> what about the fact that you can pay people, workers in mexico, much, much less? >> well, i think, again, you know, indiana across the united states, we are the country of innovation and efficiencies. we have the talent here all across america. we have the talent in indiana. we can overcome those obstacles by removing some of the restrictions that businesses are facing. manufacturing especially. >> i know that you're staying neutral in the republican race until after the republican convention, but today donald trump cited a completely unsubstantiated story in the "national enquirer" that attempted to link ted cruz's father to jfk assassination, is that okay with you? >> i'm not aware of that particular allegation. i've been working and running the polls all day. going around to different election sites. but i can tell you that both teams have had an extraordinary ground game here. cruz has had a great ground game. made ten stops yesterday. donald trump made three stops yesterday across indiana. this is a historic time for people across indiana. this is the first time, in my lifetime that indiana's going to have a say in the next nominee for the president of the united states. we're seeing record amount of turnout across state. we could set an all-time record for our state for our primary election. >> all right. mr. chairman, thank you so much. appreciate it. next, hillary clinton under fire over this -- >> we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right, tim? and -- >> she says that comment is out of context. how is she explaining it? as she campaigns in coal country. brecking news, new details about the highly coordinated attack by isis terror ifs. the attack that killed a navy s.e.a.l. in iraq. one coat, yes! ♪ there is a day, for every number. ♪ ♪ there is a time, for all my slumbers. ♪ ♪ and i can see, that i can't run and hide. ♪ one coat guaranteed marquee interior. behr's most advanced paint. come find our top rated paints, only at the home depot. hii'm here to tell homeowners that are sixty-two and older about a great way to live a better retirement... it's called a reverse mortgage. call right now to receive your free dvd and booklet with no obligation. it answers questions like... how a reverse mortgage works, how much you qualify for, the ways to receive your money... and more. plus, when you call now, you'll get this magnifier with led light absolutely free! when you call the experts at one reverse mortgage today, you'll learn the benefits of a government-insured reverse mortgage. it will eliminate your monthly mortgage payments and give you tax-free cash from the equity in your home and here's the best part... you still own your home. take control of your retirement today! welcome back to "the lead." the hoosiers are heading back to the polls. it's a a tight race. hillary clinton and bernie sanders canvasses the state. tonight the clinton campaign telling cnn they're downplaying a possible victory but looking ahead, focusing on the upcoming competitions including west virginia where clinton's arrival was met with mixed reviews including this candid and rare moment she was confronted by a coal worker over comments that she had made at a cnn town hall in ohio. here's the original comment followed by the exchange. >> i'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key in the coal country. because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business. >> i want to know how you can say you're going put a lot of coal miners out of jobs and then come in here and tell it's how you're going to be our friend, because those people out there don't see you as a friend. >> i know that, bo. and you know, i don't know how to explain it other than what i said was totally out of context from what i meant. i have been talking about helping coal country for a very long time and i did put out a plan last summer, and it was a misstatement. >> i've never heard that before, donna brazile. out of context from what i meant. which i suppose means i misspoke. >> sometime you say i'm going to score three points and end up scoring two. what -- >> that was -- that didn't go in the bucket, didn't go in the ring. >> she knows how to play hoops what happen she's doing, she's looping around coal couldn't trip she's gone to appalachia. here's what she's saying, she wants to help create an economy where coal workers and others can transition, you know, to what i call renewable and other sources of energy, that's the plan that she put out last summer. that's what she's doing in coal country today. stopping in three different places, not just for votes but i believe she has to explain what is her plan for industries like the coal companies to transition into 21st century jobs. that's what she's saying, we're not going to forget you. >> david what did you say? you worked in the clinton white house, there was tension with west virginia as well. >> done fla's right. her plan to have clean energy will put coal miners out of work, it's a good thing she went in there, i didn't fully explain it well, but her problem is that the government and politicians keep promising and don't deliver. we have time after time workers thrown out of jobs because of trade, because of environmental regulations and for a variety of reasons, and we promise them all of this transition aid and you'll get good jobs and guess what? it doesn't happen. >> why doesn't it happen? the plant, the green energy jobs are in the san francisco area and not in coal country. >> i mean, some ways you saw president obama in 2008 and 2012 campaign on the same thing, going to factory towns in indiana, promising to bring in, you know, factories were gone and promising to build factories that would build windmills. even with the stimulus, promises around transitioning to green energy, it doesn't happen. there's red tape at local level, state level and federal level. this is -- i think this is a problem. i think it gets to donald trump. this idea that he's going to bring all of these jobs back, that's what candidates have been promising for years and years and years, they're going to be able to reverse outsourcing. >> john, let me go to you. take a look at relationship the clintons have had with west virginia, before in 1992 bill clinton won, 48%, 1996, 52%. and the 2008, clinton leaned obama's clock. yet downplaying expectations in the west virginia primary, i believe next week, because of these remarks and others. >> because of these remarks but because of demographics. a flip from 2008. he she won indiana, the closest state, won over 50%, he had 49%, because in 2008 campaign she was winning smalltown, white, rural voters against the african-american candidate, barack obama. in this campaign, senator sanders tended to win in small, rural towns against white working voters. he took a bus tour, poverty tour, promised to help them. part of it is a role of government, democrats, republicans, washington, mayors, governors to agree, part is delivery. this what is bernie sanders appeals, he's clear, he says i will tax wall street and send money to help poor people, other candidates fudge about it. sanders has been clear. not that he could ever get it passed but clear about it and that's one of the reason he has appeal. >> nobody's passed a budget. if you want money for retraining people and want money for new jobs, you've got to have money to do it. and congress hasn't passed a judge budget in how many years? ten years. there's no money to do it. bernie sanders is the only one who says i'm not going take this from the budget, i'm go tax people. >> he's more aggressive as environmentalist than she is. >> if he were being honest he would say, i'm going to take away some jobs but i'm going to tax the rich people on wall street so i'm going to create different and new jobs for you and not depend on government and passing a budget to get it done. >> all right. next, breaking news, stunning, new information about how isis forces broke through the front lines to kill a navy s.e.a.l. in iraq. moments away from the first exit polls that cnn will be able to report. we'll be right back. oudairy or artificial flavors., so we invented a word that means that. shmorange! and it rhymes with the color of our bottle. hey, baby, make it your first word! (baby babble) not even close. reach for the orange, it's 100% shmorange! our vitamins contain no gluten, dairy or artificial flavors. so we invented a word that means that. shmorange! and it rhymes with the color of our bottle. to help spread the word, we made t-shirts! reach for the orange, it's 100% shmorange! he's happy.t's with him? your family's finally eating vegetables thanks to our birds eye voila skillet meals. and they only take 15 minutes to make. ahh! birds eye voila so veggie good breaking news. new details about the navy s.e.a.l. killed by isis in iraq. u.s. defense official telling cnn the s.e.a.l. died in a coordinated and complex attack by approximately 100 isis fighters. the s.e.a.l. is the third u.s. combat casualty since the u.s. redeployed forces no iraq in summer 2014. barbara starr, what more can you tell us about this incident? >> here's what we know about what happened on the ground earlier today, about 100 isis fighters punching through peshmerga lines, using vehicles, suicide car bombs, even bulldozers, to punch through checkpoints and get to a peshmerga camp, where these navy s.e.a.l.s were temporarily located as military advisers. they punched through a firefight breaks out. the s.e.a.l. kill ed in that deadly action. there is no indication that the s.e.a.l. was deliberatery and uniquely targeted by isis but 100 isis fighters coming upon these peshmerga forces. what is so critical now is getting peshmerga forces ready and move their front lines forward towards mosul, iraq, a target that the u.s. wants peshmerga to get to. what does this tell us about the strength of isis in this part of northern iraq? what does it tell us about the difficulty of the peshmerga in defending their territory? jake? >> the obama administration says that u.s. forces are in iraq to fight isis in a what they call advise and assist capacity. the pentagon announced additional 217 u.s. troops going to iraq. what is the long-term strategy. what point do we acknowledge we have combat troops, boots on the ground. >> i don't know a person in uniform that doesn't already say, we are in combat in the u.s. military. they are sending more. whether you call them advise and assist or trainers, this is very dangerous territory. and the u.s. military openly acknowledges that. what they are trying to do on the iraq saide of the border ge the peshmerga and iraqi government forces ready to take mosul and on the syrian side, get the peshmerga to retake raqqah. a very tall order. >> i know you've been saying that, but i know uniform troops say that. i meant when do we call them boots on the ground, when does the obama administration acknowledge that we have boots on the ground. barbara starr. jeffrey, play a clip here, u.s. strategy to defeat isis, sure to be a top general election issue, right? i want to play a clip of donald trump and hillary clinton reacting to donald trump. play the tape. >> there's isis, i have a simple message for them -- their days are numbered. i won't tell them where and i won't tell them how. >> his idea that he, quote, has a secret plan to get rid of isis, that he's not going to tell anybody, i found it disturbing. >> now, without referencing richard nixon's secret plan to end the vietnam war -- >> that's very good. >> you know the historical illusion. >> let me scratch that off. >> doesn't he need to be more specific? >> to some degree, i'm sure he will be, as time moves on. look, you are about communicating a message here in a campaign, people are not -- voters out there are not interested, as we are all, 5,000-point white papers. they want to know what is the message. his message is, i'm coming after them, i'll do it, i'll say i'll do it however i do it, in unpredictable fashion. that's the message. he delivers it, she rebuts it. she is more inclined to the long position papers, et cetera. that's the difference. and i think that's one of the reasons why he is where he 4 is. >> but i think you have to have some broad view of ow you're going to maintain u.s. coalition, how we're going to ensure that turkey and others are carrying out their part of the deal, how we're going to make the iraqi government more functional so that they can also contain isis. i really do believe that you need a white paper, some 37,000 whatever perspective because the american people want to know exactly what is the plan to defeat them? the president has been asking congress to authorize the agreement, the forces agreement, and they haven't done so. yes, we do need a plan we just can't have hot rhetoric. >> this is why it's incumbent on the presidential candidates to talk intelligently about this. one of the reasons the plan hasn't been authorized no one understands what it would be. how can you allocate funds without having a clear plan. someone lass to come up with a plan to do just that. the middle east policy, it's weighing so heavily on voters' minds so long. bogged down in the middle east, told the iraq war is over and silently more troops are being sent there, american troops are being killed and we're not at war? we need to get our hands around this. >> i think jeffrey's correct, donald trump will bring out more of what his policy position is. we have a problem in the country we send troops and go out and ahave a press conference and announce these things and they're watching when we tip our hand and show what we're going to do next. donald trump has a point. he will give more specifics but it's correct the message is what's important. people are tired of politically correct wars tired of a president who refuses to utter the line islamic terrorism. >> david, who has worked in the white house when force has been authorized. what do you make of the debate? >> i think donald trump is continuing to win votes because he appears strong. people aring looking for a strong man right now. it's also true it's been a long tradition in the american foreign policy, first you commit the nation and then commit the troops. that was the main lesson out of the vietnam war. we go back to the secret plan that never exited. that's why people are objecting to this. if you're using force go to the country and explain why, what your objective is and what is your exit strategy? >> it's interesting, at the same time voters want strength they don't want to be bogged down in another war in the middle east. >> right. you know, if you look at poll, people are ambivalent. in just the way you describe. and the polling is, we don't want to get bogged down in another war but we need to destroy isis and we'll do what it takes. >> trump gets that, trump gets it. >> it's one of the seeming contradictions i don't mean to say aha condirection, but his speech, on isis he wants to sound tougher and he says i'll be reluctant to commit u.s. troops overseas, he's trying to take a step back, been more almost rand paul. >> nia-malika. the latest data behind the race for 2016 as counting down for the close of polls in indiana, more than an hour from now. coming up next, what to look for tonight. and the first exit poll results just minutes away. how are you supposed to choose one? 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[squeals of delight] still the same refreshing bud light. with a new look. ♪ welcome back to a special election day edition of "the lead." moments away from the first poll results from the exit polls in the make or break indiana primary. donald trump says it's all over tonight if he wins. in a few hours we'll find out if trump does come out on top. closing thoughts from nia-malika, let's me start with you. >> i think the thing to look for, after tonight, if trump wins, as polls suggest that he will, is the republican establishment finally looks at the scoreboard and accepts what they see. so far, you've had such ambivalence privately acceptance, no public accepta e acceptance. i think that's telling if you start to see elected officials, republican elected, endorse trump. we haven't seen that yet. this is a decisive night and tell us what the road forward will be. >> mark salter today -- >> or the opposite, yeah. maybe the opposite happens. >> he's no fan. >> i thought we'd be looking whether trump is going to win big. that will be the second thing to look for. how much is his victory tainted by the smear of ted cruz's father. one of the low blows in politics. it straight out of joe mccarthy play book. >> how do you think it's going to come back to haunt him? we've been seeing comments like this for month. >> so personal, so far below the belt. i think will are a lot of people might say i will support you but clean. your act. this is the most serious office in the world and you either be an adult and we'll go with you or be a child and we're going have these temper tantrums which have no place in our politics. >> to david's point, there's incoming through paul manafort in the trump campaign saying if he wins tonight, if he wins decisively tonight, speak to the country about the general election, speak to the country about hillary clinton, speak to the republican party about unity. that's what they want from donald trump. they want him to stand, like secretary clinton did last week, say i'm the presumptive nominee, speak to the country about the general election. will he do that? >> gloria. >> lyin' ted cruz and hillary clinton and we're going to have to see if the never trump movement now kind of shuts down and becomes the probably trump movement and start spending its money on those down ballot races so they can save senate and house candidates. >> interesting. >> the two recent polls show trump winning by 15 to 17 points. i'm looking to see if perhaps he can reach the 50% line which would be remarkable. he outperforms tonight, looking at presumptive nominee. >> you've always got the data. >> trump's advisers may want them to talk about party unity. in numerous interviews, yeah it would be nice if the party is united but i don't need to do. i i think trump has laid out his spot and willing to win without major people in the party. >> two things, margin, how mar over 50% does he get and secondly endorsements establishment is starting to weaken. they have to to play old fashion human nature be win the winner and see how they turn. >> we're in the homestretch, tonight is very important for both candidates secretary clinton needs to continue to accumulate delegates. she can see the finish line. bernie sanders has to continue to find those super delegates not committed so he can close it up. >> great panel. first exit polls from indiana minutes away. cancer... we don't want to think about it. but i had to. because, you see i was traveling, i was enjoying life, i was working... it was too long since my last pap. when i was finally tested, we thought i might have cervical cancer. after worrying - no cancer. i was lucky. women... please get a pap test to check for cervical cancer. and get the inside knowledge about gynecologic cancers. for you and the people who care about you. and my brother ray and i started searching for answers. 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(vo) call 844-4-brightstar for your free home care planning guide. thanks for joining us. that's it for "the lead." i'm jake tapper. i'll be back in one hour, 6:00 eastern, for special coverage of the indiana primary. i turn you over to wolf blitzer and anderson cooper in "the situation room." >> happening now, hoosier candidate, voting is under way in indiana, donald trump and hillary clinton could take another giant step towards securing the nomination. will today be the beginning of the end for the stop trump movement? >> no love lost in the heartland. ted cruz unleashes brutal rant against trump calling him a pathological liar, a narcissist, serial philanderer. do those things mat for trump supporters? mind set in the midwest, breaking news, first exit polling starting to come in. we'll show you the data and talk about what it can tell us what voters are thinking. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room."

Transcripts For MSNBCW The Place For Politics 2016 20160427

well, this country isn't a reality show. and if donald trump thinks he's too good to answer questions from the men and women of indiana, that conveys something. it's now been 48 days since the last republican debate. 48 days. the democrats have debated. hillary clinton and bernie sanders have both demonstrated more humility than donald trump in that they have subjected themselves to the scrutiny of the voters. i believe the people of indiana deserve a debate. i've accepted two debate invitations here in indiana to be hosted here in indiana to give hoosiers the chance to compare. to make this choice. i think that is a simple act of respect to the voters. but it's been 48 days. and i would note, by the way, every time there's been a debate, whichever network has hosted it, has made millions of dollars. has anyone noticed that even though the networks stand to lose millions of dollars by not having a debate, that the news is utterly silent on there being no debates? have you noticed that, that fox news, cnn, nbc, abc, cbs, they withstand to make millions and yet they do not say a word about the absence of debates. it almost makes you think the network executives are happy with donald trump being the front-runner and they know that in a debate he doesn't have any answers to how you bring jobs back to america. he doesn't have any answers as to how you keep this country safe. since the network execs want hillary clinton to be the president, they're perfectly happy not to have a debate, which would generate enormous revenue to them. at the end of the day, this is about the people of indiana. and let me say this afternoon, 4:00 p.m., at pan am at the pavilion, the pavilion at pan am, i would ask folks to come out. we're going to have a major announcement, a rally, and i could not be more encouraged that the people of indiana will be making this decision. >> donald trump is not coalescing conservatives, senator? how is he not doing that? >> that was senator ted cruz arriving at a restaurant in indianapolis. he will be there campaigning today, the hoosier state voting next week and cruz teasing what he is calling a major announcement at 4:00 today. we will be following that story, what the developments are in indiana with cruz and in the entire presidential race throughout the day here on msnbc. that's going to do it for me right now. i'll send it over to jose diaz-balart right now. jose, take it away. >> steve, good morning. thank you so much and good wednesday morning to you. as we just heard from ted cruz, the republican race for the presidency is not over, despite a nominating sweep dominated by donald trump in all five primaries last night. cruz is pressing on in indiana. we heard him just a second ago. he's comparing donald trump to mick jagger parachuting into a football stadium. he said he's going to make a major announcement at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. just what that announcement is unclear but likely to be something to get trump out of the headlines and cruz into the headlines. >> i recognize that the new york media executives and the washington lobbyists running donald trump's campaign both want the campaign to be over. they're desperate for it to be over. because they recognize that this campaign has now moved onto much more favorable territory. >> our political team is up and running across the country this morning. msnbc political correspondent steve kornacki is at the big board with all the numbers. steve, let's go back to you and take us through what was a big night for both front-runners, huge for donald trump. >> yeah, absolutely. we knew it would be a big night going in for trump. we didn't know how big. let's take you through the scale of what he pulled off last night. these are the states, these are the delegates up for grabs, two different kinds in pennsylvania. we'll handle them separately. let's put these 54 aside for a second. just by winning pennsylvania, he got all 17 there. maryland, he takes all 38. that was a total sweep of every congressional district. delaware, he gets all 16. connecticut, he hit the magic number of 50% there, that means winner take all, he gets all 28. rhode island, actually he got the most votes, the most percentage in any state in rhode island. the way the delegate rules work there is more complicated at best. we're still calculating these this morning, at best he'll grab 111 there. the bottom line is from everything i just circled, donald trump could end up with 111 delegates. there was a total of 118 he got have gotten, almost a complete sweep, and these 54 are the unbound delegates in pennsylvania. they ran individual lly on the ballot, they're free agents at the convention, they can vote for whoever they want. but it looks like about two-thirds of those 54 are either people who right now say they support donald trump or people who say they will go to the convention and volt the way their district voted. and donald trump swept every district in pennsylvania last night so it looks like he might pick up two-thirds of those. if you had ayou add it altogethd trump looks like he'll come out with 990 delegates, nearly 1,000. 1,237 the magic number. quickly we can take you through the democratic side. bernie sanders won rhode island, picked up a few delegates there. hillary clinton won delaware, they cancelled each other out. the delegate situation in connecticut is roughly a crdraw between the two of them. here's the difference. landslide for hillary clinton in maryland. she gains a net total of about 30 delegates from that. big win for her in pennsylvania, gains a net total of about 20 from that. bottom line, last night we started the night, hillary clinton was leading bernie sanders by about 240 pledged delegates. you factor in what happened, you come out of last night, hillary clinton is pushing 300, nearly a lead of 300 in the pledged delegate race. when people say it's impossible for bernie sanders to overcome that the rest of the way, it's because he's just run out of options, run out of opportunities. that's a huge lead at this point in the race, jose. >> steve, let's go back to the republican side. you just saw cruz there a second ago talking about that the future really is indiana, indiana, indiana. let's say that he brings carly fiorina in to the campaign as a vice presidential running mate, even though he's not the nominee. talk to me about the importance of indiana, and specifically for cruz, does he have a shot at it? >> look, it looks -- in terms of winning, yeah, he's got a shot in a way he didn't have a shot to win any of these states. why it's so important is there are 57 delegates up for grabs in indiana. the way they give these delegates out in the state, if you win the state at all, by even one vote. if it's like 42% for trump and 41% for cruz, just by doing that, you get 30 of those 57. the others are given out by congressional district. nine congressional districts, three delegates each. what that basically means is if you're winning the state, you're getting most, maybe all of those 57 delegates. if you lose the state, even by a couple points, you're getting barely any of those 57 delegates. so from a delegate standpoint, and so much of this is about the delegate math. from a delegate standpoint, the difference between winning indiana by a whisker and losing it by a whisker is massive. so they need a headline. if you're ted cruz and the stop trump movement, you need the headline to show you beat him somewhere and are still viable. you want to stop him from 1,237, he can't walk away with 48, 51, delegates, something like that. you've got to do everything in your power to make sure you win that state next week. >> and there are winner-take-all states coming up. >> new jersey, for instance, comes on the last day. that looks by all measures if trump is winning all these states right here by landslides. when you get to new jersey, that's going to be 51 delegates, winner take all. that looks like donald trump. you go out into the middle of the country. you'll have nebraska, south dakota, montana. these are winner-take-all primaries. ted cruz has been counting on those three states, south dakota, nebraska, montana. when you see donald trump winning last night by the margins he's winning by, it raises the possibility that something big has changed in this race nationally, that voters who were not with trump before are now coming aboard with donald trump. if that is happening, he could win some of those other states. >> i was listening to you in the earlier hour, because i listen any time you're on. but i was listening to you in the other hour and you were saying that that stronghold or expected stronghold of cruz in those states may not hold. explain to me why you're seeing that, because i know you've been studying this for weeks. >> exactly. so we look and there's sort of patterns you start to notice in these results. if you look in that part of the country, nebraska, south dakota, montana, if you look at the states around there, like in iowa, like kansas, colorado at the state convention, wyoming with their caucuses, these have been the weakest states for donald trump. these have been the best states for ted cruz. these sort of plains states, these middle -- smack in the middle of the country states. so you looked at those and said on paper these look like ted cruz states. and the really good news if that's true for ted cruz, they're all winner-take-all states so just win by a small amount and he gets all the delegates. but if you look at these states last night, donald trump is breaking 60% in some of these states. we knew trump was going to be strong here. the expectation, though, a week ago in pennsylvania, was donald trump wins pennsylvania with maybe 45%, 46% of the vote, something like that. we weren't talking about 60%. in connecticut we were saying, hey, maybe on a really good day he could come close to 50%. instead he goes over 60%. rhode island, he got nearly two-thirds of the vote so it suggests that in addition to the basic strength we already knew trump had that in the last couple days maybe, because of the deal, maybe a backlash against that, maybe something else, but something has changed where he is now getting more votes. he's getting sort of extra votes than we would normally expect. if that's happening and that's a national story, then our assumptions about how other states are going to vote down the line have to be thrown out the window. so what looks like a cruz stronghold a week ago may after last night be in play for trump. if that's true, by the way, and we're looking at indiana before last night, indiana looked like a toss-up. if there's been a surge toward trump that's happening right now nationally, then indiana would move from toss-up to the trump column. if indiana goes to the trump column, that's going to pretty much do it for this thing. >> always interesting, always learn something from you, steve. thanks for being with me. i want to go now to nbc's hallie jackson who's right there beside ted cruz as we speak. hallie, good morning. >> reporter: hey there, guys. senator cruz is at this restaurant in indianapolis here. this is heidi cruz right next to us, she's talking with some voters here, the senator himself is right around the corner and he just previewed that major announcement, 4:00 p.m. happening today. not saying what that announcement will be, but there is some speculation that perhaps he will name a vice presidential pick. carly fiorina we know has been being vetted as on that short list. as we sort of talk about what may come for him in indiana, an essential state, a must-win state some argue for ted cruz just given that he has been mathematically eliminated from contention. we're going to sneak in and see if we can throw a question live to one of these guys as we wait for them to chat with voters. but i see a lot of people at this restaurant. this was similar to what kroou was doing in iowa, getting boots on the ground. i asked him about that as we were walking in. he said, hey, this is us getting out here talking with voters. the challenge for cruz will be to make the argument that he's been trying to make against trump, that trump cannot coalesce a majority of conservatives. but after trump's dominant performances last night, that may be a tough argument to make. it undercuts the argument cruz has been trying to get at. we heard us and we asked about that today and cruz simply said that he believes that people want to call this race for trump right now. when you look at the math, though, trump if he does as well as expected in pennsylvania would need like 48% of remaining delegates to win out in order to lock up the nomination outright. that's obviously below a majority and that's something that could be doable for donald trump. i'm going to see if i can sneak in over here and listen in, jose, to this conversation between heidi cruz and this is a voter, a supporter who has come out here in indianapolis. one of the questions that we heard one of these voters ask, one of these supporters ask ted cruz was about the drug epidemic and he talked emotionally about his sister. he talked about the struggles that his family has gone through. and now i think this is some health care discussion, jose, if you can bear with us to listen in for one second. >> in ohio actually. i think one of the hardest -- >> i've got to shake his hand. >> we're just listening in live on msnbc, talking with voters. i talked to your husband. this feels like the kind of politicking you did in iowa. is that fair? just talking with folks? >> we're talking with voters so feel free to take pictures. >> the senator out here talking with voters. they don't want to talk with the media, they did that outside and that is where you heard cruz talk about that 4:00 p.m. announcement. his family has been with him today and recently this week you saw the girls out with him at his rally at hoosiers gym. they stopped at ice cream parlors throughout the state. he's got the bus here planning to barnstorm the state but it's a difficult challenge for him. donald trump is leading in polls right now in indiana, jose, so we'll see if cruz is able to in the next six days turn the corner, change the momentum, change the narrative. it is essential for him and essential for the stop trump movement as well. >> hallie, just thinking about the possibility of carly fiorina being brought into the campaign and being more than just one of the spokes people there, why her and indiana, would it be important to bring her in then? >> reporter: well, to change the discussion, right, to change the conversation. if cruz is tieable to come out make a big announcement, the hope one would think is it would change the narrative and not get people talking about the speech that trump was making and the dominant wins and instead talk about carly fiorina. there's a challenge inherent in that in that it is clear what the strategy and the timing would be for the cruz campaign as they roll that out in indiana if that is in fact what is happening at 4:00 later today later in indianapolis. so there's some question marks around what we will see. fiorina has been a surrogate for him for a while now ever since she endorsed him in early march. kind of a surprise endorsement. but she has done more than just campaign for him, she's also been instrumental in that delegate hunt. she's heading out to california to try to lock down some delegates there in case this does go to a contested convention. she has also been somebody who could potentially shore up an argument against donald trump when it comes to women, for example. that is a vulnerability for trump, so fiorina being on the campaign trail could speak to that. we will see if all of that comes into play. the senator was asked just moments ago what qualities he looks for in a running mate and he said somebody who is prepared to be president, somebody who is ready to step into the office on day one. it's sort of the answer that every presidential candidate looking for a running mate gives. we will see what happens at 4:00 p.m. in indianapolis, jose. we will be there. >> yeah, and by the way, it looks like there are more cameras than human beings in this building. but we have not only a camera on you, we have a camera on the senator, so let's see if we can listen in a little bit on what the senator is talking about now. >> donald trump is not willing to show hoosiers the respect that they deserve of coming and answering questions, i suggested if donald is afraid of the moderators, he was apparently very frightened by megyn kelly, we ought to have a town hall. let's have a town hall and just have voters from indiana asking the questions. and that is what i'm doing every day. he is traveling the state answering the questions from the voters. donald doesn't do that. i think the voters of indiana deserve that, and i hope he will show them the respect that they deserve. >> senator -- >> i'll go with the chorizo el toro omlette. do you want anything, sweetie? >> some pancakes, scrambled eggs and fruit. >> they're ordering el toro in the morning and between the two of them, hallie jackson in between them. >> look, i'm a texan. it's chorizo omlette. >> you have a choice with your omlette. mini waffle, pancakes or toast. >> get toast because i got pancakes. >> apparently i'm getting toast. >> senator cruz -- >> what kind of toast am i getting? >> wheat would be great. and some black coffee. >> this is my friend, george. and that's his daughter, please. >> what's your name? >> susan. >> susan, great to see you. >> hallie, could we get nick a chance to meet ted real quick. he's a hard working senior in high school, he just graduated early. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> he's been working since he was a teenager to support both of his parents who lost their jobs. >> oh, wow. >> and his sister, who's a freshman, is supporting her. >> my younger sister, she's a freshman in high school and when i was in middle school, both my parents lost their jobs shortly after obama took office. but it was really hard on my family and stuff so i got a job when i just turned 16. >> so what kind of job, what do you do? >> right now i just got laid off today actually. >> oh, nick, i'm sorry. >> but i'm in the hiring process at a sheriff's office. >> terrific. >> in southeastern indiana to be a corrections officer. >> he's going into the army. >> yeah, i've been in the national guard since last june. i'm getting ready to leave for ft. benning, georgia. >> well, congratulations and thank you for serving. >> i was telling your wife just thank you for like all you're doing out here. i feel like a lot of it is unappreciative because everybody gives donald trump the spotlight, but to people like me, it's made me want to have a career in politics one day. not be like your typical politician, but i actually want to help people, whether it's on the local level or something higher than that, so i just want to say thank you very much. >> thank you very much. thank you for sharing that. thank you for serving both in the guard and going to ft. benning. and thank you for also stepping up with your family. that's not an easy thing to do. you know, i know what it was like when i was in high school. my parents went bankrupt. and so i had the same experience. we lost our home, we lost everything. so i know very much what that's like. >> i was telling heidi that it's really hard right now like working a job, making minimum wage, and then paying so much in taxes. which it's nice getting it back in april and like i have an extra check to go out and spend stuff. but like i would say like the biggest thing affecting my family and everything right now is the economy and then taxes is the biggest thing. i was just telling heidi, like i hope that you can become president and i hope the american people want tax change and that the other politicians -- >> i told him about your tax plan and that the first -- the 10% flat tax will cause wages to go up by about 12%. we've done all the studies and the first $36,000 is tax-free. >> tax-free and then 10% above that. >> for a family of four. >> that would be nice for my family. so thank you very much for your time. >> nick, you mentioned mr. trump being the spotlight. senator, does it frustrate you -- >> we're visiting with voters right now. >> you just saw a little bit of retail politics in indianapolis with the senator speaking to a young man whose parents were unemployed and who today was laid off but he has plans for the future. you saw hallie jackson, she's the best in the business. she just doesn't take no for an answer. we'll be back after a short break. stay with us. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ and i quit smoking with chantix. i 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doesn't want to necessarily talk to members of the media while he's doing some of this retail politicking since he did hold a little media availability outside. nick, you are one of the folks we saw live on our air talking with senator cruz here at this restaurant in indianapolis. you told me during that commercial break jose referenced that you used to work for ben carson's campaign as a volunteer. ben carson is somebody who you know is now backing donald trump. was there any consideration for you of going to donald trump instead of cruz once carson dropped out of this race? >> there was a little bit. i actually attended his rally in dayton, ohio. >> reporter: trump's rally? >> yeah, and i did like some of the things that he had to say but i just think he's all talk and no show. and then i started looking at the remaining candidates and who was left. speaking to people in the area that i lived, especially people in my church, they supported ted cruz. and i got on his website and started to read his policies and that's when i really started to realize i liked ted cruz. it was just the field used to be so big that i didn't really realize that all his policies and different things like that. >> you are registered as a republican here in indiana. you say you plan to vote for senator cruz. do you think he has a shot in this state to win? >> i do. >> why? >> because it's situations like right now, he's out here talking to people an there's people out here coming to visit him. they're going to go and tell their friends about him. yeah, donald trump, he has a lot of popularity, but i think like here in indiana, like we hold our values and we're just not going to follow the same path as the other states where trump might be getting a percentage of it. like everything he says, especially the taxes, the economic growth, that's things we need here in indiana. >> trump called himself the presumptive nominee last night, i'm sure you heard after his primary wins. how do you take that when you hear that, what do you think? >> i just don't think it's like really professional. it hasn't been set until the last vote is cast. i think donald trump of course the media likes to hear donald trump say things like that, but i just don't think it's true. if he doesn't get to 1,237, then we're going to a convention and then it's up to the people at that convention to pick who the republican nominee is. it's always been that way and it's not changing. >> the last one for you and then i promise i'll let you go. but you talked a little bit about your support for senator cruz. he and john kasich have made kind of an alliance here in indiana as well as in new mexico and oregon. how does that strike you? does it bother you, do you understand why he did it or what's your take on that? >> no, i understand why he did it. i think they could have well planned it because john kasich was kind of confusing me, the responses he was giving to the alliance. but i understand why they did it and i think it's a good idea. it helps -- it doesn't necessarily help cruz more or kasich, but it helps both of them together. so that way donald trump just doesn't flat out get the nomination. they can go to the convention and we can let the people that we picked to be the delegates make their minds up on who they wanted to be a republican nominee. >> nick, thank you so much for being live on our air. i appreciate it. you were telling the senator you were laid off, economic issues incredibly important to you and a lot of folks in indiana. it is something that we expect to hear from senator cruz over the next six days as he campaigns here as well as donald trump as he heads to the state later in the week. jose, back to you for now. >> hallie jackson in indiana, thank you very much. i appreciate that. donald trump won big majorities in all five states last night, his victories downsizing the possibility of a brokered convention. here's what he said on "morning joe." >> i think we're going to do great in indiana, i think we're going to do great in california and ike there's some states in between that we're going to get. >> are you going to start turning your attention now to hillary clinton and the general election? >> a little bit. i want to finish off the final two leftovers. two guys that shouldn't be here and, you know, for the sake of the republican party they shouldn't because we want to unify the republican party. but i have two people that are still here hanging around, as the expression goes, and not going to get anywhere. but it's going to take time. >> let me bring in rory cooper, a senior advisor to the never trump super pac along with msnbc political analyst and former senior advisor to rand paul, elise jordan. rory, looking at the results last night and the delegate count, tell me why this gop race is not already over? >> listen, i'm not going to spin last night as a good night for people who are looking to stop donald trump but i'm going to spin it as a night that we expected. we have been banking on him sweeping delegates in these northeast states for some time. we have publicly been saying that that's baked into our calculation on him being able to have this narrow path to 1,237. the real race now moves out west in the states where donald trump is clearly more vulnerable and i do hope he focuses his attention on the general while ted cruz is retail politicking in indiana because that's going to make it much more difficult for trump and much more favorable for ted cruz to get those delegates and change the narrative. a lot of folks in the media wanted to declare this race over, it's far from it. indiana is where the spotlight is right now and the ted cruz campaign has to put their foot on the gas pedal. >> rory, but you do -- and you say very clearly, this was a very good night for donald trump last night. >> right. >> the fact that he got five out of five, cinco de cinco and broke a 60 plus margin in a few of those states, i just don't know what the narrative is going to be going forward when you have that reality last night. >> well, jose, let's put this in perspective. none of those states were seriously contested by john kasich or ted cruz. they basically were in the campaigns and that's what you get as a result. if you look at the states going forward, i don't think you're going to have the same landscape. if you look at the math and look at the numbers, look at steve kornacki earlier point out that donald trump is still under 1,000. and with several states to go that look unfavorable to him, our job at nevertrump.com and the never trump pac is to continue to rally grassroots support in those states to keep him under 1,237. if that happens, then what happened last night is irrelevant. >> rory, so tell me what states are must stop trump states, so that we're taking notes and say, all right, rory said that these are the states that are key for those that want who stop trump. give me the list. >> right. first off let's start with indiana. clearly the delegate math there. and then you're going to see a change in narrative and landscape after that. so i do think that when you start looking into the plains and start looking out west towards new mexico and oregon, you are going to have some opportunities. really it's going to come down to california. that's going to be where ground zero becomes, as we get closer to the end of this primary and going towards cleveland and that's where we're going to know exactly the numbers that are necessary for us to be successful on the to be sure that a republican reflects the vision and values and principles of the party is nominated on the second ballot. >> elise, there's a huge gender gap between women and donald trump. you heard him last night say hillary clinton wouldn't be where she is unless it was for her gender, on a night when this race seemed to pivot to the general election. why did he choose do you think to go down that path last night? >> i think donald trump genuinely can't help himself when it comes to saying offensive things about women. he has a misogynistic streak that has been present this entire campaign and i think it's going to be the downfall of the republican party against hillary clinton if donald trump does persevere and get the nomination. that's why i'm so concerned about donald trump getting the nomination. when 50% of the population isn't going to vote for you, it's really tough to win a general election. and, you know, maybe donald trump is banking on, oh, he can change his reputation over the course of the general. he can change those unfavorables and hillary clinton has such entrenched -- such an entrenched reputation as being dishonest, but i think that's such a huge gamble and really a mistake for the republican party if we do want to retake the white house. >> i mean trump said as much last night, right? he was talking about, oh, people like bush, jeb bush spent $100 million plus in negative advertisements against him, although it wasn't all against him but he said so last night. elise, can he pivot if he does get that top spot? >> i think trump has done too much damage so far to women. as a young republican woman, i just quite frankly have never seen anyone in public life on either side of the aisle who is so consistently anti-women. no, i think too much damage has been done, especially against hillary clinton. and if she even chose a woman, a strong woman as his vice presidential pick, that would be even more tough to combat. >> elise jordan and rory cooper, thank you both for being with me this morning. appreciate your time. good to see you both. state of indiana next on the calendar for democrats and republicans, but it's especially crucial for ted cruz. that deal with kasich makes it a two-way race between cruz and trump. at least that's how it's supposed to work, and it could be the last stand for anti-trump forces. we were just talking about that with rory. with me now from indianapolis is jeff cardwell, the chairman of the indiana republican party. chairman, good to see you. >> good to see you. thank you for having me. >> let's talk first about this cruz-kasich alliance. how much sense does it make for kasich, the governor of a neighboring state, to forego the state instead of cruz? >> well, i think the hoosier voters all across our state were looking forward to his visit here, traveling the state and it's retail politics. so i think the person that really spends a lot of time on the ground here meeting the voters i think is going to have an influence on the outcome of this race. and so i think it's good to see all of the candidates focused on indiana and this is the first time in my lifetime that indiana has really had a say in a presidential election. >> let's talk a little bit about the delegate allotment process in the state, because just last week the indy star said john kasich had gotten support from a majority of delegates. if trump gets to or close to the 1,237 before the convention, what do you think cruz and kasich should do? >> well, first of all, all the delegates, we've got 57 delegates. we have 27 at-large, three that's automatic, the chairman and then two rnc people, and then we also have 27 by district. the 57 delegates are all paying very close attention and going to pay very close attention to may 3rd, the outcome on may 3rd. i don't think that any one of them at this particular time has set their feet in concrete. so for those who are saying that someone has all of the delegates locked up, i would say we're ready to listen to the voice of the people across the state of indiana and we're ready for the main results on may 3rd, on tuesday, may thr3rd. >> thank you so much for being with me, i so appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> we'll take a short break but on the way back a deeper look at the democrats. hillary clinton racking up another round of wins in last night's primaries, pivoting her closer to the nomination. a look at where the numbers stand and what they mean for bernie sanders' campaign, next. >> whether you support senator sanders or you support me, there's much more that unites us than divides us. let's go forward, let's win the nomination and in july, let's return a unified party. every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. our partnership with habitat for humanity at pg&e, we believe solar should be accessible to everyone. allows us to provide the benefits of solar power to the types of customers who need it most. pg&e provided all of the homes here with solar panels. the solar savings can mean a lot, especially for low-income families. with the savings that i am getting from the solar panels, it's going to help me to have a better future for my children. to learn how you can save energy and money with solar, go to pge.com/solar. together, we're building a better california. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. mr. trump accused me of playing the, quote, woman card. well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in! >> after another big night, hillary clinton sets her sights on donald trump, as she pivots to the november election. secretary clinton surged ahead in the delegate count after winning four out of the five primaries last night. pennsylvania, maryland, delaware and connecticut. senator sanders had one win, rhode island, which puts him even farther behind in the delegate count. clinton added nearly 200 delegates to her total last night. sanders managed to get 132. according to our nbc political unit, sanders now needs to win 80% of the remaining delegates to secure the democratic nomination. let's go now to philadelphia where nbc's kristen welker is. kristen, good morning. despite the grim numbers for sanders, he's promising to fight on this morning. >> reporter: he is vowing to fight on, jose, but the language is important here. the statement that he released last night stresses the fact that he's fighting to the convention to fight for his party's platform. let me read you a little bit of what he released. he says, quote, we are in the race until the last vote is cast. that is why this campaign is going to the democratic national convention in philadelphia with as many delegates as possible to fight for a progressive party platform. again, jose, the way that he's characterizing that very important, because you hear him fighting for his principles, his ideals. you don't hear him necessarily calling for winning the nomination. that's a shift. the question is today, jose, will his language match that statement last night or will he continue to hit secretary clinton. of course he's been hitting her on a whole host of issues. the speeches that she gave, super pac money that she's accepted. will he continue to do that or will he scale back his rhetoric as the clinton campaign has been calling for. of course secretary clinton does have a challenge on her hands in terms of unifying the party. 30% of sanders supporters saying they won't back her in a general election. the clinton campaign very confident, though, that they can win over those voters. she started to begin that process last night, jose. she really focused her speech on the importance of party unity. she stressed the fact that she and senator sanders see eye to eye on a whole host of issues, but they have differing views about how to achieve things like universal health care and reduced costs for college education. so i think we're going to hear a whole lot more of that from secretary clinton. she is off the trail today, jose, but senator sanders will be on the trail and again we'll be listening very closely to see what his tone says about where he's heading in this race. jose. >> kristen welker, thank you very much. and i have breaking news out of chicago. former house speaker dennis hastert set to appear in federal court within the hour where he will be learning his fate after pleading guilty in a case that had revealed sex abuse allegations. we'll take you there live for the very latest and a whole lot more. c-o-gram for an "owen." that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise 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going to try to re-establish communication with ron. as a matter of fact, he actually just got back on in front of the camera because there was a security sweep that he had to move so we're going to re-establish -- we're going to be right back. stay with us. the call just came in. she's about to arrive. and with her, a flood of potential patients. a deluge of digital records. x-rays, mris. all on account...of penelope. but with the help of at&t, and a network that scales up and down on-demand, this hospital can be ready. giving them the agility to be flexible & reliable. because no one knows & like at&t. our partnership with habitat for humanity at pg&e, we believe solar should be accessible to everyone. allows us to provide the benefits of solar power to the types of customers who need it most. pg&e provided all of the homes here with solar panels. the solar savings can mean a lot, especially for low-income families. with the savings that i am getting from the solar panels, it's going to help me to have a better future for my children. to learn how you can save energy and money with solar, go to pge.com/solar. together, we're building a better california. breaking news out of washington, d.c. the white house confirming president obama will head to flint, michigan, to hear from the community that continues to deal with the toxic water crisis. joining me on the phone is white house correspondent ron allen. ron, what do we know this morning? >> reporter: we know the president is going this week on may 4th to focus the nation's attention on this problem. this is something that he's been asked about many times before and he met with the mayor of flint when she was here in washington for another event some time ago. but we've just received confirmation that in fact he will go. the federal government, of course, plays a big role in all of this. the epa role has been called into question. unclear exactly who the president will meet with. we believe he will probably meet with residents, families, trying to hear their stories firsthand about their fears and their concerns about drinking water, about whether in fact the crisis is being addressed to their -- as they would like to see it. we know there's a lot of frustration, a lot of anger out there. unclear whether the president will meet with the republican governor, rick snyder, who is also under fire. that sort of crossing over partisan lines is perhaps not likely, but we will see as the community there tries to come together to get around this problem. but again, it's significant because the president has been asked about this many times before since the crisis started evolving many months ago, and their position as always been to some extent that the state and local authorities should be sorting this out, even though again the epa does have a significant role to play in all of this. but the president going out there will certainly draw more attention to the problem. he's always been concerned, we understand, about how the residents have been responded to. and we know that there's a big concern about the fact that this is a relatively poor and minority community and whether they are in fact getting the attention to this problem that they deserve. >> yeah, because, ron, it's important to mention that this is continuing, this crisis is continuing. there have been little children who have been affected by this and that are going to have long-term impacts on their health because of this. this is not something that, you know, is not going to fade in the near future. and i understand, ron, that he's been exchanging letters with an 8-year-old girl from flint. >> reporter: he's received a lot of letters from residents there, jose, over the months, explaining what exactly they're feeling and what exactly they're fearing. you're right, an 8-year-old resident of flint who asked to meet with him. she's talking about coming to washington to attend congressional hearings about the city's water issues last month. she was here to attend hearings last month and now she's followed up with a letter asking the president for a meeting. so clearly a lot of concern about the children there who have been affected already probably and what the future is for that community. and again, the president has been -- he's been asked numerous times to weigh in. he's been invited there by residents who have wanted him to step into the situation and now he's going to do it, turning up the pressure on the authorities there who are investigating to really get something done, to find some solutions faster. >> ron, thank you very much for being with me. i want to go back and show you, we showed you just a few seconds ago the letter that president obama wrote back to the young 8-year-old girl who had written him. it's dated 25 april 2016. there's a great -- it's a great letter. i just want to read part of it. it says i want to make sure people like you and your family are receiving the help that you need and deserve. like you, i'll use my voice to call for change and help lift up your community. letters from kids like you are what make me so optimistic for the future. i hope to meet you next week, little miss flint. sincerely barack obama. the letter that the president sent back to that 8-year-old girl who had written him with the intention of asking if they could meet in washington, d.c., but apparently they're going to be meeting in flint, michigan, soon. donald trump has been blasting the last two administrations for its foreign policy. today he gets to turn to explain what he would do differently, delivering a rare policy speech in just about an hour from now. p.j. crowley is a former spokesperson under president obama. it's good to see you. >> hello, jose. >> let's start with the middle east. trump wants to destroy isis but he has been critical of the strategy so far. is it clear what he would do differently? >> in fact i don't think he would do a lot differently. you know, what he's described in various debates resembles a lot of what president obama is already doing. he says he'll do it more intensively or better, but the reality is i think that a dominant narrative from the campaign has been no boots on the ground and so you're talking about the very kind of incremental increase in special forces, more intensive air operations, but at the end of the day i don't think he's going to do anything differently. >> this incremental use of special operations forces in syria, the president announced 250 additional. p.j., what kind of impact does 250 have, 250 plus special operations forces in syria have on that battle? >> i think the real key is gaining greater intelligence about what's happening on the ground, more effective targeting, and there are some special operations -- operations operations that are taking out more and more of the islamic state leadership and cutting into the islamic state sources of economics. it's not that the united states has to dominate this battlefield. ultimately the region has to resolve this. but you're softening the -- that perception of invincibility and as you defeat the islamic state, we're already seeing that it's becoming less and less popular among muslims around the world. >> yeah, i'm just wondering, p.j., with this supposed agreement in syria, the slaughtering has not stopped. the regime continues to bomb its own cities, civilians, little kids are dying almost every single day there. is there something that could be done there? it just seems like the world is not really turning its attention on how brutal, how bloody things are in syria. >> i would disagree about that. i think we recognize that hundreds of thousands have been killed, millions have been displaced, but the dilemma is that the combatants on the ground, and understand this is not one conflict, it's multiple conflicts. whether you're talking about the proxy war that's going on, the war among the insurgents, the war between the insurgents and the coalition at this particular point in time, those who are fighting the civil war within syria still believe that they can succeed. and so while the united states and others are doing the right thing in terms of creating the conditions for it ultimately for a political settlement, we have to recognize that we're not there yet. >> yeah. p.j. crowley, thank you very much for being with me. i appreciate your time. >> okay. >> that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. thank you for the privilege of your time. thomas roberts picks up our coverage live from indianapolis next. i'll see you tomorrow. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like 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(cannon sound) hey, everybody, let's get to work. good morning, i'm thomas roberts in for tamron today. we hustled overnight to the next battleground state in indiana and we are live here in shapiro's deli in indianapolis. we've got pastrami

Transcripts For MSNBCW The Place For Politics 2016 20160428

and but never gworked with a moe miserable sob in my life. the tweet, chosen a vp candidate who failed badly in her own effort. on the "today" show, the republican front-runner doubled down on the position that hillary clinton is playing the woman card and would not get the vote if she were a man in his eyes. >> all i'm doing is bringing out the obvious, she's done a terrible job in so many ways. you look at libya and some of the things that she's done are just absolutely disaster out. i would say the primary thing that she has going is that she's a woman and she is playing that card like i have never seen anybody play it before. >> over on the democratic side, the big news today, bernie sanders campaign confirming it is laying off 225 staffers while keeping on 300 others. on "morning joe" senator sanders wife and political adviser insisted they are still in this race to win it. >> absolutely in it to win it. you remember in mid-march after a string of losses the media wrote his political o bbituary d we came back to win eight in the row. we're expecting to do the same here. >> sanders and john kasich will campaign today in oregon which hoilds its primary on may 17th and donald trump holds a rally in indiana and will head to california for the primary held june 7th. ted cruz is in indiana. he'll be holding three events in addition to the three total we're watching the one right now waiting for first one as we said to begin. as always, we have all of this covered with our team of correspondents across the country. we're going to start off with hallie jackson covering the cruz campaign. hallie, you spoke with carly fiorina last night. sources close to the campaign have conceded that the move to add carly fiorina was designed to change the conversation, try to undercut the momentum that done auld trump has. that does seem to be working. at least when we look at the headlines this morning. how does it seem to be playing out on the ground? >> well, when you look at the headlines and local papers, we were just in indianapolis and the front page was a picture of carly fiorina and ted cruz talking about candidates coming to indiana to blan ket the hoosier state five days before what will be a crucial primary, not just for ted cruz but that stop trump movement. you will see on the stage behind me, he and carly fiorina with first campaign rally since he announced that she would be on his ticket if he were to win the republican nomination, and in our conversation, carly fee over-rena and i talked about this attack line coming from the trump campaign. you heard paul manafort talk about that this morning, it is desperate, this is an act of desperation for cruz to be naming fiorina his running mate without having locked up the nomination. there is historical precedent, you think back to ronald ragen in 1976. the argument coming from team cruz this is an unprecedented race. it's an unusual race, it's not out of the ordinary that something like this, early naming of a vp pick would happen. the cruz campaign was looking at vice presidential options after the win in iowa. they had 40 or so people on the long list that got whittled down to 17 and ultimately five of those potential candidates were vetted by the campaign. but fiorina when she endorsed cruz, has been on the campaign trail for the the last seven weeks most loyal surrogates and it became clear she was going to be the obvious pick for this vp choice if in fact cruz does get the republican nomination. we'll see them on stage together here. we expect fiorina will play the role of attack dog and hopefully help them bolster his support among republican women here in indiana given that the campaign believes that is a vulnerability for donald trump. that said it is going to be an uphill battle. he's up by 6 or 7 points. so ted cruz only has about five days left to close that gap, to get out and do that the politicking. let's put in perspective, it's more important for cruz and stop trump movement to win indiana than cruz to win indiana. if cruz loses here it will be a psychological blow. if trump loses, he can still move on and get to california and pick up delegates in these western states and still have a shot at locking up the nomination outright. it's easier if he does it with the delegates out of indiana, but it's not an easy road ahead for ted cruz, that's what his campaign is up against. >> i'm curious, have you been able to get reaction from the now cruz fiorina campaign. we heard explosive comments from ted boehner. i won't repeat it because it's take your kid to work day. is they saying anything about what boehner said there. >> reporter: i'm checking ted cruz's twitter page, but we haven't seen him on camera this morning. we reexed out to the campaign for reaction and comment. ted cruz and john boehner have no love lost between the two. boehner was never a fan of ted cruz on capitol hill. it's no surprise he would make these comments now. it is very personal, right, when you talk to other republicans outside strategists that that, one of the things you hear, this is very personal for john boehner, for the former speaker, so it's no surprise that those feelings have not diminished even though he's been off the hill for a little while. we'll be expecting to hear when he speaks to the media in a couple of minutes. it will happen this hour. hopefully we'll take it to you live. >> we're looking forward to that and i have a feeling we'll hear more about that and if he doesn't, you'll ask him about it because you get us all the good stuff. hallie jackson covering the cruz/fiorina campaign. jacob rascon joins us from evansville, indiana, where the republican front-runner is set to hold a rally, his happening in about two hours. donald trump saying he got the greatest endorsement in indiana history, which came from a very well known guy, bob knight and jacob, he allowed him to upstage him a little bit. >> reporter: he did. as you talk to the crowd out here, been asking him, who are the bobby knight fans and one man looked at me in disbelief, are you kidding? this is indiana. he could run for president and he would win. one opiniperson's opinion. as hall lie was pointing out, more important for cruz to win than him. look at where mr. trump is spending his time, after his event right here he's going to california. he's already moving out there and he'll be there for a couple of days. cruz will be spending all of his time here. that's part of what trump's thinking is in indiana, he's already ahead, though only by single digits. he thinks he's going to be doing well and he's headed to california where it's really at. we know because of our very smart political director and others put together the numbers. even if mr. trump was shut out in indiana, he still has a path to 1,237, it's remarkable how well they did in the northeast states. he is in his campaign is as confident as they've ever been. erika? >> i know you've been talking to voters there and i saw you earlier speaking with a man talking about the foreign policy speech that donald trump gave earlier. he liked that donald trump made him appear more presidential. has that speech been generally well received by his supporters there or was there something they didn't hear that they were hoping to? >> so this is something we find over and over around the country that we ask a lot of folks questions like that. and the overwhelming majority have not paid attention and it's just because they are not -- every second every day, they didn't even know a lot of them that he was having a foreign policy speech, which we find very interesting. but just a day to day folks we're talking to, we talked to some who are here because they are losing their job. we talked to others who are here, never been to a political rally in their lifetime. a lot of them are very excited about trump but they don't follow the every day or the changes day by day wherefore us sometimes you don't check your e-mail for an hour and the whole campaign has changed. they don't follow as closely. those who did and did follow and watch are excited about a new tone, some even said they really weren't happy with a lot of things that came out of his mouth off the cuff and they hope he'll use more teleprompters, which is not likely, of course. i would say that i see two tones from donald trump, when he talks to a lot of people at a victory speech he's more presidential and doesn't say lyin'ted, for example. then out on the campaign trail, he's somebody different and on purpose, as if he's with a group of friends and just wants to speak off the cuff sean get that give and take from the crowd. i don't think that's ever going to change. >> that is a lot of what we've heard from you, jacob and people you've spoken to from other correspondents on the trail that they like when he speaks to them he feels like they get them and they are sort of in the same group there. jacob rascon with the trump campaign. for more on this stop trump movement which we've been talking about, kasie hunt joins us from indianapolis. when we look at the stop trump movement, there's been a lot of criticism, frankly since wisconsin that it sort of stalled and it's not worth spending money in places where we can't have an impact. is there still momentum with the movement at this point? >> this is really the last stand in so many ways for the stop trump movement, erika. they are of course continuing to be up on the air here in some cases trying to help ted cruz, in other cases with negative ads against donald trump but i want to go back to something you were talking about a minute or so ago and that's these remarks that john boehner made and the reason why this matters here in indiana is that you know, john boehner and ted cruz, it's not just they don't like each other. ted cruz want to the mexican restaurant to essentially plot a revolt against john boehner and would go into private meetings on the senate side and take stands that frankly alienated all colleagues, this is more than just they don't get along. there's active dislike. that matter here because a lot of people who don't like ted cruz are the ones who could pull the traditional levers of power on his behalf. for the most part that means money and the stop trump movements is that they don't have enough cash to do this. a lot of those donors willing to help jeb bush, willing to help marco rubio and saw it go anywhere, it's just not willing to get off the sidelines to help ted cruz be the person that beats donald trump. it's still an issue in indiana and part of that is because ted cruz needs a group of voters that actually represent that segment of the party. there's a lot of people i was talking to here in indianapolis yesterday and who were basically saying, there's no waeightait i ever vote for donald trump but i don't think i could stomach voting for cruz because he did things in washington that left such a bad taste in so many of these people's mouths. the question for cruz, looking at the broader landscape in the state, whether or not he can unify both his natural voters, a lot of social religious conservatives who are natural ted cruz supporters in the northeastern part of indiana, they'll be on board with him. the issue is this group of mod ral republican and we would have called them tea party republicans an election cycle or two ago, but blue collar voters angry with how things have been run in washington. it started with the bailout and continued on. there's a sense here on the ground that those people are really going to be trump voters and it's just not clear that ted cruz can pick off enough in these other two groups that don't naturally go to him that he could win. the sense from the people i've talked to on the ground. if this elections were held today -- he still has five days, if it were held today donald trump would come out on top. >> you talk about moderate republican voters and folks that can't stomach trump and can't vote for ted cruz, do they plan, from the folks you've been talking to, to go to the polls and vote or is this the kind of thing saying i might sit it out? >> reporter: i think, erika, the people who are members of the party who have been involved in politics for a while and there's a sizable group of them here in indiana. they have a strong long tradition of party infrastructure. they are going to go and vote and a lot of them are the kind of strategic voters who think, okay, the most important thing here is stopping trump but there are a lot of people who are going to show up and vote still for kasich. i think there's questions how that alliance is playing out. if you talk to the folks working for kasich and have a good sense who his supporters were, they'll tell you they are talking to some people who are going to make that strategic choice and jump over to cruz but also talking to other people who say there's no way i could ever vote for ted cruz. i'm going to vote for kasich anyway. the effect whether they stay home or vote for kasich is the same. that's more likelihood that donald trump wins here in indiana. >> gets more interesting by the day, doesn't it. >> kasie, thanks. in washington, d.c., trump campaign representatives held a closed meeting with members of congress. luke russert joins us from capitol hill with more on those development and you spoke to paul manafort, did he give insight how did the meetings go? >> reporter: he told me they are very positive and that at the first meeting this sort of the last few weeks there was about eight members of congress who had supported trump that showed up today it was 16. after the big night trump had on tuesday it doubled. a few new endorsements to roll out, bill shuster of pennsylvania, chairman of veterans affair committee jeff miller of florida and mike kelly of pennsylvania now an ardent supporter of donald trump. manafort had an interesting line about the selection of carly fee ov overyor rena, he says it's an act of desperation but then he said it was a very odd move from ted cruz ahead of the indiana primary because carly fiorina at her time at hewlett-packard was the quote/unquote queen of outsourcing. i suspect you'll hear that line through the duration of the time he's there until tuesday. other interesting things talked about in the meeting with members of congress where they were on the delegate count as kasie mentioned, they still have a very good chance when this go out west to california. other states still left like new jersey, they think they can win there. also, this idea that the nomination of donald trump is inevitable. if you're a member of congress it's time to get on board. it's especially time to get on board if you're a member of congress who represented one of these districts that went so overwhelmingly for trump. today you saw endorsements from pennsylvania members. i wouldn't be shocked if more come out through the duration of this week. you have members of congress that may not like donald trump, they are districts and counties went overwhelmingly for them at this stage in the game if they go against their constituents, it can prove bad in november. i think it's fair to say the flood gates may have happened to pick up real endorsements in the coming weeks. >> we know you'll bring them to us and interesting to hear what paul manafort told you. i think you previewed the trump line. >> developing now, ted cruz as we mentioned is set to speak. he's going to speak with reporters before he holds this campaign rally in fort wayne, indiana, that will happen any moment now. hallie jackson is on the ground there. cruz's new running mate carly fiorina will also attend. we'll bring you their comments live as soon as they happen. >> could this new ticket help stop donald trump in indiana. i'll speak to the chairman of the indiana committee. stay with us. 98,352 what's that? 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(interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. we're back with a live look inside the convention center in ft. wayne, indiana. ted cruz is set to speak with reporters at any moment before his rally there. with five days now until the primary in indiana and what amounts to the last stand for this never trump movement. it's one of the first time in decades the state has played such a crucial role for the party's nominating process. joining me no indiana republican party chairman jeff cardwell. >> thank you for having me. >> give us a sense, we heard in the reporting about this quan dri that some republicans in your state feel. state senator jim merit telling the new york times he was inclined to back kasich but said i have no idea if i'll vote for a presidential candidate. i'm very disappointed. are they feeling that same way or happy with their choices? >> i think you see a lot of great excitement like i've never seen across the state of indiana. i can tell you the anticipation for these candidates barn storming our state is unprecedented. we're excited to welcome them here across indiana. i can tell you that i know senator cruz is in fort wayne and mr. trump in evansville. our phoneses are ringing off the hook at headquarters. >> you're remaining neutral? >> yes, we're just excited to have this opportunity to let the voice of the people of indiana to be heard on may third. >> we heard governor mike pence has not endorsed yesterday. do you think the governor will in fact throw his support behind one of the candidates before tuesday? >> he's made it clear, very clear that he's open to meet with any of them and he has met with all three of the candidates that they've come to indiana. i think at this particular time, he's going to continue to keep an open door and let the people of indiana make that decision on may 3rd. >> how do you think ted cruz naming his running mate six days before indiana voters go to polls, are you seeing that's having an impact? >> i can tell you, carly, was extremely well liked when she came through our state here in indiana. she's a great example of the great american dream. she's lived it. so i'm sure that's going to create more excitement across the state. all of that is healthy and good for indiana voters. >> early voting in the state has more than doubled since 2012. there's been a lot of focus on what's happening there among the republicans, i want to play a little bit of what donald trump had to say when he spoke on the "today" show. he was asked specifically and pressed on comments about women involving hillary clinton. let's take a listen. >> 70% of women this this country have a negative view of you. do you even care? >> of course i care. nobody respects women more than i do. i wasn't playing the woman's card. it's true, she's playing the woman's card and said everything she says is about the woman's card. and frankly, all i'm doing is bringing out the obvious, without the woman's card hillary would not be a viable person -- >> you're saying they vote based simply on gender? >> i don't think they vote on gender, no. i think they vote for security. i think they vote for jobs and that's why i'm doing so well. >> is there concern that donald trump is alienating female voters in the state of indiana with his comments? >> i think that's more the reason why it's very important for him to spend time here in indiana so he can introduce himself personally to the people across our state and he's doing just that today. he did it yesterday. he's continuing to meet with indiana hoosiers all across the state. i think he'll continue to do that and we'll let the people decide on may 3rd on tuesday. >> you're going to let the people decide. we're spending a lot of time in your state, personally i'm a big fan, married to a hoosier. anything that you think folks across the country may be surprised about when it comes to the most important issues? what would you say is the most important issue? we're talking about the economy and jobs. is that it? >> economy and jobs. jobs is certainly the most important issue across our state. we've continued to have a great leadership by pence, great environment here. washington, d.c. having an devastated impact with regulations on business environment and business growth across our state. we need a partner in the white house that can help us to continue our growth pattern. >> we will continue to watch how things roll out there in the state of indiana. jeff cardwell, thanks for your time, sir. >> thank you very much. >> bernie sanders wife says the campaign is in it to win it. this is just one day after the campaign laid off hundreds of staffers. we'll look at the impact on the democratic race up next. every day you read headlines about businesses being hacked and intellectual property being stolen. that is cyber-crime. and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. to make people and organizations safer. it takes a lot of rk... but i really love it.s. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. 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stafferers in late january. these cuts were bring the total down to just over 300. most of the layoffs will be states that already held primaries, allowing sanders to focus resources on upcoming contests in states like california. this morning bernie sanders wife and adviser jane sanders told us they are still fighting for the nomination. >> absolutely, in it to win it. you remember in mid march after a string of losses, the media wrote his political obituary and came back to win eight in a row. we're expected to do the same here. >> oregon will hold its primary on may 17th. kristen welker has the latest for us now from washington. she's of course been covering the clinton campaign extensively. as we look at what we're hearing too in terms of the sanders campaign the clinton campaign said he should stay? >> they have been insistent he stay in as long as he wants to and that goes back to 2008 in part when then senator clinton stayed in the race until the very end and then she helped campaign with then senator obama and that's what they are essentially asking for of senator sanders. they want him to stay in the race as long as he wants and also asking for him to scale back his attacks against her though. chris jansing asked if some of his rhetoric could become part of the gop talking points and he essentially defended his tactic, saying he still has a right to layout his proposals as he sees them making the point he stayed away from thorny topics like e-mails. those will be seized upon by donald trump, already begun to do that. what we're seeing emerge is two different campaigns, senator sanders out on the trail today stumping in oregon and then heads on to indiana where secretary clinton as you pointed out is off the trail, it's an indication that she's resting and really resetting as she sets her sights towards the general election. and underscoring this point take a look at their ad spending in these upcoming states? senator sanders putting all of his money into these states, take a look. california, indiana, kentucky, west virginia, he's spending big whereas secretary clinton not spending a dime. having said that, she is competing in those states. she has been campaigning in indiana and i'm told she has staffers there and stastaffers california. they want to win those states at the same time she wants to save her money as she again begins this pivot to the general election setting her sights on donald trul p and upcoming democratic convention in july. >> kristen, thank you. happening now on capitol hill, top u.s. military officials are testifying on the fight against isis. defense secretary ashton carter saying he's increasingly concerned with the challenges overseas as vice president joe biden makes a surprise visit to iraq this morning. a political crisis divides that country. up next we'll look at the mission of the vice president's first visit there in five years. sir, this alien life form is growing at an alarming rate. growing fast, you say? we can't contain it any long... oh! you know, that reminds me of how geico's been the fastest-growing auto insurer for over 10 years straight. over ten years? mhm, geico's the company your friends and neighbors trust. and deservedly so. indeed. geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... senator ted cruz has now arrived as you see with carly fiorina by his side. let's listen in. >> the common sense midwestern judgment of the hoosier state is going to play a pivotal role in this republican nomination. the eyes of the entire country are looking to indiana. and indiana has the opportunity to make a decision not just for the republican party but for the country. do we want to go down the road of nominating a campaign based on yelling and screaming and cursing and insults? or do we want to unite behind a positive optimistic forward looking conservative campaign based on solid policy solutions to the real problems facing this country based on bringing jobs back to america, bringing manufacturing jobs back to indiana, raising wages for the working men and women of this country? yesterday we made a major announce many, that i'm if the republican nominee, my vice presidential nominee will be carly fiorina. the reaction has been tremendously positive. carly is a remarkable leader and incredible successful business leader who started as a secretary and climbed the corporate ladder to become the ceo of the largest technology company in the world, the first female of a fortune company in history. spent her entire life shattering glass ceilings. in naming a vice presidential nominee that may be the most serious decision a presidential candidate has, you look for someone prepared to do the job from day one. the most important job of a vice president is if the president is incapacitated, to be prepared to step in and lead the country and deal with the challenges facing america, the economic challenges bringing jobs back to america. you want to nominate someone who has the knowledge, both domestic economy and world to do the job. someone who has the judgment, someone who has measured in careful not hot headed and not rash and popping off at whatever the latest twitter storm is. but instead who is a serious leader we can trust to be commander in chief. you want someone with character. you want someone who is honest and trust worththy and who can be counted on to fulfill the promises made to the american people, all of us are furious with politicians who say anything and play a role, who play a part and pretend on the campaign trail and then go to washington and they become part of that same corrupt washington system that enriches big business and enriches wall street and lefrz the working men and women indiana out in the cold. enough of that already. we need leaders who will fight for the hard working men and women of this country. and i will tell you you could not ask for a clearer contrast than the contrast between carly and me on the one side as conservative tested trusted leaders that you can count on to fight for you, versus on the other side, donald trump and hillary clinton. donald and hillary are flip sides of the same coin. hillary has made millions selling power and influence in washington. and donald has made billions buying politicians like hillary clinton. hillary and donald are the system. if you're fed up with the corruption of washington, that's why so many hoosiers and so many republicans and why so many americans are uniting behind our campaign because we want instead real solutions to the problems facing this country. carly? >> well, it's fantastic to be here in indiana. obviously i was very humbled and honored to accept the offer and it's very exciting as we barn storm back in the bus with the girls, but i think he talked about hillary clinton and donald trump being two sides of the same coin, part of the system. boy is that ever true. boy is that ever true. all you've got to do is look at the amounts of money donald trump has given, whether to the d.c. c or john boehner super pac, he's bought off politicians all his life. and that system, that corrupt system of insiders and double dealing and crony capitalism is why the people of america, the vast majority of the american people, 80% of us have now concluded the federal government is incompetent and corrupt and that we have an insider system that works for some and works for people like donald trump, he's big and powerful and wealthy and we will connected but it doesn't work for most of us. what you have here is a fearless fighter who as a conservative understands that the thing that ails us is too much money and too much power concentrated in the hands of too few. we need to put money and power back where it belongs. >> senator, two-part question, how do you combat the criticism that this move, naming her your running mate is an act of desperation and part two, can you answer that? >> ask them both. >> part two is john boehner calling you in his words the most miserable sob he's ever worked with and lucifer in the flesh. how do you square that with the necessity to pull together -- >> let's start with the first point, it surprises presisly nobody that donald trump's comments were to engage in insults. he yells and screams and curses or insults. i suppose you could start a drinking game on which one of the four donald is going to respond to any given stimulus that might occur. but the one he does most frequently is the insults, he insults everybody and anybody he encounters, of course he would scream desperate. that is donald trump, the only way he knows how to operate. yesterday when we gave the announcement, i gave the announcement why we made it, it is certainly unusual to make it before the convention. but if this is if anything an unusual presidential cycle. as i explained yesterday, the reason for making the announcement was several fold number one to unite the party. our party is fractured, if we remain fractured, we will lose. donald trul p keeps trying to divide the party to tear us into bits. if we're fraukt toured we lose. if we unite, we'll win the nomination and general election and beat hillary clinton. i think carly is a powerful leader to help unite this party and bring us all together. but secondly, i think it's important for the people of indiana for the american people to know exactly what you're going to get and give a clear choice. donald trump and hillary clinton are virtually indistinguishable. they both have come out in support of raising taxes and i think the pay of indiana pay too much in taxes already. as president i'm going to cut your taxes and we'll adopt a simple flat tax and abolish the irs. donald trump and hillary clinton both support the individual mandate in obama care. i think obamacare is the biggest job killer in america. by the way, if you're concerned about jobs and economic growth, raising taxes and keeping obama care individual mandate as hillary clinton and donald trump want to do will kill small businesses and drive jobs overseas. they both support allowing illegal immigrants to become u.s. citizens. donald would fly them home first then let them come back as u.s. citizens. as president i will stop amnesty and secure the borders and end sanctuary cities. donald trump and hillary clinton on foreign policy both think we should be neutral between israel and the palestinians. as president i will not be neutral, we'll stand unapologetically with the nation of israel. donald trump and hillary clinton both think we should keep this iranian nuclear deal. donald gave a speech yesterday saying we have to keep the deal and keep our word. that's what hillary clinton says too. that's what people who do not understand the radical islamic terrorism say, as president i'll rip to shreds this nuclear deal. if the republican party allows the choice in november to be a choice between two new york big government liberals, we will have failed the american people. we will have failed the american people badly because both donald trump and hillary clinton are washington insiders. indeed, donald trump's entire campaign like hillary clinton's is run by washington lobbyists. donald's lobbyist campaign manager just last week told the top officials at the rnc donald was simply quote, playing a role. playing a part he doesn't mean anything that he's saying that this is all fake, that he's a phony. we know hillary clinton is a phony. i suppose i'll give donald's lobbiest campaign manager credit for candor, donald is telling us he's lying to us. this announcement gives a clear contrast. you could not ask for a clearer contrast than the contrast between carly and me on one side and donald and hillary on the other. i think the people of indiana want a positive optimistic conservative message going forward. a clear contrast. donald and hillary believe in more government is the solution to every problem. i think government is the problem. as president, i'm going to get the federal government off of your backs, off of small business's backs and we'll bring back jobs and raise wages and expand opportunity. and we do that by getting govern off of our backs. >> not a desperate move is what you're say sng. >> no, donald's attack is false, i know that's a shocking statement. but donald -- there's a reason donald wants everyone to think this race is over. you know, donald strutted out to stage after the last election and declared himself the presumptive nominee. i know that act of hue millty was an astonishing thing from donald. donald wants this race to be over because he cannot earn a majority of the delegates who have been elected by the people. donald had a good week. he had a good week in the northeast, where he lives and he's very worried because this race shifted to much more favorable terrain. i think indiana will be a pivotal state for the entire country. he sadly aided and abetted by media network executives all liberal democrats rooting for hillary, are quick to say the race is over. donald desperately wants it to be over. it's the same reason donald won't debate. because he cannot defend his left wing policies that he agrees with hillary clinton on. indeed in the last debate, i asked him name one instance you ever stood up to washington. you're nearly 70 years old, point one time you stood up to washington. he could not point to a single instance in his life that he stood up to washington because donald trump is a washington insider. washington is corrupt. donald trump is corrupt. hillary clinton is corrupt. they are all part of the same corrupt system of buying power and influence to get rich at your expense. it's the working men and women who get left out in the cold. why do you think so many working men and women are saying their wages held down? because washington is corrupt and they sell us down the river. it's why people ar are angry. john boehner didn't abbreviate, he was more expressive -- he allows his inner trump to come out. i will say this, if you're wondering who actually has stood up to washington i think john boehner has made it crystal clear. john boehner in his remarks described donald trump as his texting and golfing buddy. so if you want someone that's a texting and golfing buddy, if you're happy with john boehner, speaker of the house, you want a president like john boehner, donald trump is your man. by the way, donald trump gave john boehner's super pac $100,000 a few years ago. donald trump has been funding john boehner and also been funding nancy pelosi and harry reid. if you like what john boehner and nancy pelosi and harry reid have done, donald trump is your guy. let me reveal a little bit of how washington operates. boehner's comments he said something like he's the worst sob i ever worked with -- something like that. >> lucifer in the flesh. >> there was that too. the interesting thing he said that i've ever worked with. i've never worked with john boehner. truth of the matter is i don't know the man. i've met john boehner two or three times in my life. if i have said 50 words in my life to john boehner i would be surprised and every one has consisted of pleasantries, good to see you, mr. speaker. i've never had any substantive conversation with john boehner in any respect. and indeed, this is something that's not publicly known. during the government shutdown i reached out to john boehner and i offered for us to come over and work with the speaker, can we resolve this and actually get something meaningful done to stop the disaster that is obamacare? john boehner's response was i have no interest in talking to you. what possibly could be accomplished by having a conversation, no, i will not meet. so when he says that i'm the worst guy he's ever worked with, he's never worked with me. the thing to understand about washington -- boehner's comments reveal everything you're angry with. when he calls me lucifer, he's not directing that at me. he's directing that at you. what boehner is angry with me for is not anything i've said to him. he's angry for standing with the american people and energizing and encouraging house conservatives to stand with the american people and actually honor the commitments we've made. what boehner is angry with is conservative said if we promise to repeal obamacare let's stand up and fight obama care. what boehner is angry with, if we promise to stop amnesty, let's honor our promises. we said if we promise to stop the debt bankrupting hour kids and grand kids and do something meaningful to honor those commitments and keep this country safe, let's do something real to stop president obama's misguided plan to bring tens and thousands of syrian muslim refugees in the country that may be infiltrated with isis terrorists. the american people holding them accountable, the corrupt system that boehner and hillary have been enmeshed with for years, funded by donald trump, writing checks to boehner and hillary, funding the corrupt system, it is unaccountable to the people. what made john boehner mad is that i led a movement of the people to hold washington accountable. donald trump is playing a part, playing a role to use the words of his lobbyist campaign manager, pretending to be an outsider. donald trump is the ultimate washington insider, i lobbyist who has gotten rich, to hammer the little guy and working men and women. donald trump pretends to be tough on immigration,ize the only candidate with a $1 million court judgment against him for hiring illegal aliens and pretends to be tough on illegal immigration he says americans aren't willing to work as waiters and waitresses he's abusing the system to take advantage of american workers while bre tending to be siding with american works. he told the new york times editorial board that everything he said on immigration is a lie and doesn't believe it, he's not going to build a wall. he's not going to deport anybody. if donald didn't say this, he should wants the tape released if it would exxon rate but it wouldn't. he said the same thing that the new york times that the lobbiest campaign manager said and impact of that we're tired of politicians who don't tell us the truth. >> what shape is this alliance in? >> i recognize that the media is all eager to talk about an alliance. there is no alliance.nomination. that means donald trump believes that hillary clinton will be made a good president. donald trump is described hillary as one of the best secretary of states in history. i thought hillary clinton was a disaster. the obama foreign policy did not work. donald trump gave over $100,000 to the clinton's foundation. those scandals are scandals that donald trump understands very well. because he's been apart of the corruption. you know it was striking when jonh boehner was attacking me. and praising donald trump. the other person he chose to praise was hillary clinton. if you like john boehner, he made clear that hillary clinton and donald trump was both acceptable. that guy cruz who does what he says and stand with the working people, he's terrible. that conveys everything you need know. you know there is as reason bill clinton and hillary clinton came to donald trump's wedding. donald and hillary is flip sided to the same coin. people in indiana wants an optimistic and fresh new campaign. based on leaders who'll do what they say and who'll fight for the working men and women in this country. my top priority as priority as jobs and economic growth, we'll bring manufacturing jobs back to the state of indiana. >> last question. [ inaudible question ] >> the number one priority is seeing economic growth again. we look for carriers leading into indiana and going into mexico. that's the manifest station of failure of the obama's administrati administration. donald trump and hillary clinton respond to something like carrier, we are going to punish carrier. we are going to use government power and punish. that's what big government liberals do. they use government power to punish anyone who spresponse to the policy. i don't intend to use government power to punish america citizens or american job creators or companies. that's not the goal of government to be a bully and punish. the obama's administration is driven carrier out. this is why it is so important that we have a debate. it is been 48 days since the republican debate. it has been 48 days. the democratis have a debate. the people in indiana deserves a debate before me and donald trump. i accepted two debates here in indiana. donald cannot answer the question, how you bring jobs other than he said he wants to punish carrier. here is what i am going to do. i understand that jobs come when you redeuuce the burden on taxe. the results is millions and millions of new high paying jobs. i intend to follow the same path as reagan. as president, i am going to reveal every word of obamacare and abolish the irs and bring in the federal regulators and including the department of energy which issued 200 rules of regulations and some 50 applied to carriers. we are going to stop amnesty and end sanctuary city. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," show stopper with the curtains about to fall on their campaign. ted cruz's under study, will she hit the right

Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live 20160502

he's got so many events across indiana today. the thing that i noticed and i'm sure the viewers noticed -- >> five. >> yeah, five. the thing the viewers noticed was getting in there with one or two voters and trying to make his pitch, face to face. that sort of seems like the hour that we're at here. >> reporter: yeah, listen, let's be clear that ted cruz, after his event that we were just at, we're headed to the next one, he walked across the street, walked up to this group of protesters, this group of trump supporters, clearly holding trump signs and engaged with them. this is actually something -- i've been on the campaign trail with cruz for a while, he does this. when he is confronted we a protester, he stops and engages with them and tries to have a conversation with them, if he's able to. that's what you saw in this situation. obviously, things got a little bit heated, as you saw, it lasted for a little while. cruz after that walked away and i asked him, what did you get out of that interaction, why did you do that? and he pointed out, hey, it's a democracy. he pointed out that there were six of them and hundreds of supporters of cruz's. and that's something i reiter e reiterated. in his words, the media wants to focus on the protesters and not on the substance of his rally. he had showed up at this retail stop with governor pence in order to try to rally some of these supporters here in indiana. so cruz said that. and i said, what do you think? do you think that means you have the numbers you need? and he said, the voters will decide. right now, of course, it appears as though if you look at the most recent polling, voters are leaning away from ted cruz. our latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows trump trouncing cruz by about 15 percentage points in this state. privately, campaign aides believe it's actually going to be a much tighter race than that, but it is still going to be a fight. i had a chance, as we talked about, to chat with senator cruz and governor mike pence a couple of minutes ago. let's run some of that interview and we'll talk about it, kate. >> we are in for the distance. we are competing, as long as we have a viable path to victory, i am in to the end. >> what is a viable path. what does that mean? >> nobody is going to get to 1,237. >> what about 1,236. >> i'm not going to get to 1,237, but neither is donald trump. >> 1,235. >> so we are headed to a contested convention. >> if you cannot beat donald trump here, what is the argument that you can make? >> the argument that i am making is that the republican party stands for something. that we actually believe something. i think this is a moment where the entire country is relying on indiana to save us from going over this cliff. >> so if it's a cliff and if they don't, what's the argument then, i guess? i'm looking at where you are, if you lose, how you come back from that? >> i think a question that the viewers at home ought to ask. you know, yesterday i was on with your network, with chuck todd, who i think nine times tried to get me to say that i would support donald trump. he seemed really frantic to get me to say that and i think one question the voters are asking at home is why is the mainstream media so desperate to get conservatives to abandon our principles and support donald trump. >> i'll have to push back against that senator, obviously. >> you're standing side by side with the senator, but in your initial backing of him, you commended donald trump for what he brought to the conversation. and even in your op-ed, you said you like and respect all these three candidates and will support the nominee. are you hedging your bets? >> not in the least. i'm proud to stand with ted cruz in the indiana primary tomorrow. >> reporter: but in november you'll stand with donald trump? >> we'll let the process work. and i'm absolutely going to support the republican nominee for president of the united states, because indiana needs a partner in washington, d.c.. >> so, very popular, very well-respected, very successful conservative governor of indiana endorsed me, is barnstorming the state, campaigning with me, and yet the first question you ask him is, so, tell me about donald trump. how about, governor, why did you endorse ted cruz? you could have endorsed any of the candidates. i mean, that's why people are so -- >> the governor -- i've got to push back, respectfully -- he was the first person you mentioned when you endorsed ted cruz. >> i like and respect all of the men that are still in the field for president. and i would support any one of them over hillary clinton or bernie sanders. but what i announced last friday was that i am supporting and voting for and endorsing ted cruz for president of the united states in the indiana primary because i see him as a principled conservative who has shown the courage of his convictions. hoosiers in this state are in the process of making up their own minds. and hoosiers have a tendency to do that. and i respect that. but for me, for my part, i want people to know that i'm supporting ted cruz in the indiana primary. >> hallie jackson talking there in indiana with drated cruz ande governor of that state who has supported ted cruz. let's talk more about this wild afternoon. steve kornacki is here with us on set. i want to play another chunk going back to prior to that interview, the exchange ted cruz was having with these trump supporters, that are holding trump placards. let's play a little bit more of that. >> donald cannot tell the truth in one minute. >> you'll find out tomorrow. indiana don't want you. >> well, sir, you are entitled to have your -- >> lyin' ted! >> sir, america is a better country -- >> without you. >> thank you for those kind sentiments. let me point out, i have treated you respectfully the entire time. and a question that everyone here should ask -- >> are you canadian? are you canadian? >> do you want your kids repeating the words of donald trump? would you be proud if your kids came home cursing and yelling and insulting? >> so that's just a bit of it, steve. i have to say, hallie made the point he does this from time to time, he talks with people who are holding signs for others. but that was remarkable, what we saw play out there. >> it was. and i mean, this is it. i think part of that, too, is ted cruz representing what he's up against now. i mean, he is down if indiana, the state he absolutely has to win, or this thing is for all intents and purposes over. and those are the people, they are representative of the people he needs in the next 24 hours to change their minds. >> let me just ask, maybe i'm going too far here, but could this, if it goes viral, be kind of a dukakis tank kind of moment. where months from now, if people remember that michael dukakis thing where he put the helmet on, it was sort of a pivot point in that election. could it be that this is the moment where we look back months from now and say ted cruz sort of weakened himself? >> i have to say, it's already got me looking back a few months, because i'm looking at the hand that ted cruz had in creating this moment in the first place. because as donald trump -- remember, he started out in the republican primary with no support, last spring. donald trump. and as he made one controversial comment and one controversial proposal after another, the media and republicans looked to ted cruz and they said, what do you think of this? and the whole step of the way, every step of the way, droous droo ted cruz praised donald trump, refused to criticize him, and now here he is on the eve of the ultimate test for ted cruz, he comes face to face with the voters who have responded to that message from donald trump and i can't help but think that ted cruz among many others, ted cruz had a hand in strengthening donald trump to the point where ted cruz is now pleading with those same voters to view donald trump as a threat. and you see the reaction he's getting. >> and in his interview with hallie, he's really going after the mainstream media. he was -- these are live pictures, by the way, right now, of this event -- is that indianapolis, guys? ft. wayne, excuse me, ft. wayne, indiana. but i was about to say, in that interview with hallie, he's really going after the mainstream media. he went after chuck todd, who, by the way, was just trying to get an answer to a pretty simple question. chuck does not advocate for any candidate and does not try to make him say a certain thing, he's just trying to get an answer. >> and governor pence answered that question right away. he said, i'm for ted cruz, but i'm for whoever the republican nominee is in the fall. and the reason this is at issue is because ted cruz has said spent months saying, absolutely, i'm with donald trump if he's the republican nominee, i'm with whoever who's the republican nominee. now he's started making kinds of statements to republicans where it sure sounds like he's saying, donald trump is not ordinary threat to the republican party. donald trump is no ordinary threat to conservatism. which, of course, raises the question, given donald trump has more than 4 hurrica00 delegatesf ted cruz. it raises a reasonable question, if you are saying these things about donald trump, can you in a good conscience as a republican when this thing is over, stick to that in the fall. and the reason he keeps asking is because ted cruz wouldn't answer it. he used to answer that question. that's noteworthy and news if a candidate used to say those things and now refuses to answer it. >> steve kornacki on a dramatic day as we wait for indiana voters to decide what happens tomorrow. steve, thanks so much. so where is donald trump in all of this? he's also in indiana today. just a short time ago, stopping by shapiro's in downtown indianapolis for some lunch. he greeted voters there and here's what he had to say about tomorrow. >> i would like to get on to hilla hillary. we've beaten all of these folks. indiana is very important. if i win, that's the end of it. >> at the top of the hour, trump expected at his first rally in carmel, indiana. that's where we find jacob rascon. jacob, set the sacene for us. what's life like today? >> here we are about an hour beforehand, before this rally starts. it's a very small venue, 1,600 or people can fit inside. all the talk is cruz. they've already opened with an opening prayer, the pledge of allegiance, and the person who introduced and opened the event said these are the last days of ted cruz, let's close the door on ted cruz. that is the feeling, that is the talk of everybody, really our poll, the nbc poll has changed conversation. it's what everybody's talking about. they're excited, they think, for the end of cruz. that's how everybody we've talked to has seen it. and we'll talk to, we had a nice gentleman, fred. fred is going to talk to us. fred is actually from ohio. it's interesting, we've talked to a lot of folks who are not from here, who are driving here, because they weren't able to make it earlier to a rally. why? why go through that and why be politically active when you never have been before? >> well, we've done our fair share of voting in the past. we've always followed it, but never to this point. we've checked out the candidates, we've looked them all over. and we found that trump seems to be the one that fits my bill the closest to whatever i want to go with. and he's the one i'm going to go with. >> reporter: he's expressed and he's said some things that have shown some lack of knowledge about certain foreign policy or other issues, does it worry you at all? is he really ready? >> well, i don't think his personal lack of knowledge of the issues is a big deal, because, like he's always said, i'm gonna get people around me that know what's going on and i pay attention to what the experts tell me. so if he's going to pull somebody out of the crowd that he knows is going to give him the right answer, i'm in favor of it. >> last question, as you followed the event, you probably heard about the cruz and kasich deal to try to shut out donald trump here. what do you make of that? >> well, an alliance, as such, i don't see it in an election. i thought an election was a man or a woman against a man or a woman against a man or woman. but when you've got to form an alliance to try to keep somebody from getting it, i think it's high time you both get out of the race. >> thank you, friend. i want to jump over here to tammy. tammy, you've actually been to a rally before and you came back. why? >> i love it. it's great. it's energizing. my youngest son is 24 and he's -- this is the first year he's active in what's going on politically. >> reporter: active as a family. thank you, tammy, thank you, fred. that's the scene. we're about an hour away and just really confident. it's different. they think this is the beginning of the end for the other candidates and it's just going to be trump versus hillary. >> jacob rascon out in indiana. and as we get down to the wire there, let's turn to the person who's been covering drmp drump ever since day one. nbc's katy tur is in indianapolis and she joins me now. katy, i understand that the trump campaign has not responded yet, i don't think, to anything that's happened this afternoon involving ted cruz and that exchange that's been playing with cruz and the voter. i would have to imagine, we've been watching it live with a supporter or a republican operative who supports donald trump and she was pretty excited to see that exchange going down. i have to imagine, they think they're near the end here for ted cruz. >> well, you would imagine that the campaign would have liked to have had seen something like that. and if donald trump does respond, i would expect a response on twitter in one of his short responses, or on stage right now where he is in carmel, indiana, or potentially tonight where i am, in south bend, indiana. but, yeah, they feel very confident about the state. they're up by 15 points in the latest nbc news poll. it's a poll that donald trump likes, because it has him ahead. but they've said they don't necessarily need the state. as much as they would like to get it, they don't need it. and they got the endorsement of bobby knight, and he in many ways is a more influential man than even the governor mike pence, who endorsed ted cruz, as we saw him supporting a ted cruz a couple of minutes ago with hallie jackson. but the campaign is still looking forward, they're looking ahead. i'm told they're going to start vetting vps this week. they're going to start sitting down and really looking in earnest who they could possibly pick to be his running mate. they haven't given any clues as of now as to who that potentially would be. but i would note one other thing, kate. he did have lunch a little bit earlier in indianapolis at shapiro's and "the washington post" is reporting that at that lunch, which we should have on camera as well, ed klein, the writer who wrote a number of books about the clintons over the years, much of them containing discredited rumors about bill clinton's sexual life or hillary clinton's health. so that is another indication that they are focusing on the general and they are finding a way or a strategy to go after hillary clinton. >> just so i'm clear on that, you're saying he sat down, and i'm looking at your reporting here that you just sent out, katy, he sat down with aides for lunch, with ed klein. with that author? >> reporter: yeah, "the washington post" is reporting this. he sat down with two of his aides, cory lewandowski and stan camino, and author edward klein, who is perhaps best known for his series of bombshell books, spreading rumors and innuendo, much of it discredited about the clintons. that's directly from "the washington post" reporting. this is something that all of the networks pooled on camera. it should come as no surprise that he would be finding people to talk with about potential strategy when it comes to hillary clinton. it is notable, though, that he would do that in such a public setting, with such a well-known and discredited author in terms of those allegations that he's leveled in a number of his books. >> and quickly, are they talking about tomorrow? are they talking about what will happen if donald trump wins big? and will they put pressure on ted cruz to get out? >> reporter: yeah, they will be doing that. and they have said to me that after indiana, they are going to start running this as if it was a general election, regardless of whether or not ted cruz or john kasich are staill in this race. indiana is in many ways ted cruz's last stand. if he doesn't do well there, it's hard to envision how he could stay in this race. and donald trump is going to be putting a ton of pressure on him to get out, especially, even -- they're even doing it now. he's mathematically -- it's mathematically impossible for him to get to 1,237. the campaign does feel like they're going to be able to get to 1,237. they're already putting that pressure on ted cruz. it will only get stronger from donald trump wins tonight in a state that ted cruz was supposed to be competitive in. >> all right. katy tur in indianapolis, where donald trump will be later tonight. katy, thanks. just a week ago, we were talking about the alliance, remember, between ted cruz and john kasich, the deal was that kasich would back off in indiana and let cruz have those voters. for those of you wondering if that deal would backfire with voters, the numbers are in. a new nbc news "wall street journal"/marist poll shows 58% of voters disapprove of the cruz/kasich alliance, originally set in place to push for a contested convention. nbc's kasie hunt has been covering the stop-trump movement. and kasie, you've been reporting that there are actually stop-trump supporter who is seem to be doing a 180 now and want to support trump. >> reporter: kate, good afternoon. the kind of people who have been pushing against donald trump all the way along, many of them republican operatives who have worked for path presidential candidates, the kind of people who were just incredulous at the idea that donald trump was running at all, let alone now in this position, some of them polishing their resumes. the reality being that it's looking increasingly as though the trump campaign is going to be the only game in town in republican politics, and that if you're not working for that campaign, you're probably out of a job. and, you know, whether or not that continues to a trump administration, of course, an entirely different open question. but the stop-trump movement definitely having a tough time here in indiana. and that's really going to be, it seems, the nail in the coffin. the people i've talked to today just have this air of resignation. >> kasie hunt following the stop-trump movement. casie, thanks so much. up next, the governor's endorsement. a strong conservative base of voters. it worked for cruz in wisconsin, so why aren't those same factors helping him in indiana? we'll talk to a state party leader, right after the break. w. just gotta get the check. almost there. i can't reach it. if you have alligator arms, you avoid picking up the check. what? it's what you do. i got this. thanks, dennis! if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. growwwlph. it's what you do. oh that is good crispy duck. because you can't beat zero heartburn! i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn ahhh the sweet taste of victory! prilosec otc. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. burning of diabetic nerve pain, these feet were the first in my family to graduate from college and trained as a nurse. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. lyrica may cause serious allergic 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different demographically. it was a big win. he had the backing of the governor, like he does in indiana. people seem to like his conservative principles. so why is that not working in your state? >> well, i don't know that it's not working in our state at this particular time. they are kris crossing our state and both of the campaigns have got a lot of enthusiasm. a lot of people showing up. we're seeing record levels of people turning out. i can tell you that we've seen a 206% increase over 2012 in early voting. so there's a lot of enthusiasm on both sides. and tomorrow the people will have a voice and a say for the nomination for the next president. >> when you say on both sides, do you mean ted cruz and donald trump, or democrat and republican? >> yes. ted cruz and donald trump. >> so you think there are still cruz supporters who are active and showing up and we should not be looking at our new poll that has ted cruz down 15 points and saying, that looks bad for him? >> well, i would say that there's been a lot of polls this year that have missed the mark. so i would say the most important poll will be tomorrow, when we get a chance to hear the voice of the people, all across our great state of indiana. >> absolutely. well, what's driving voters in indiana? we've heard stories, donald trump likes to talk about carrier and the plant moving out of indiana. is it jobs? is it the economy? what do you think is top on the lust? i think top on the list is jobs. although indiana is doing quite well. we have a lot of companies moving to indiana. we've created more than 100,000 net new jobs with our current governor. and really what our governor needs more than anything is a partner in the white house. >> and polls tomorrow? open what time? close what time? >> polls open tomorrow at 6:00. i would say that people will be lining up very early. they close at 6:00 p.m. it's going to be a very exciting time. very exciting day here across the state in indiana. >> we'll be looking and watching it with you and watching the vote and seeing what they do there in indiana. you've got a lot of power this time around. thanks so much for being with us, jeff cardwell. appreciate it. up next, bernie sanders live right now in indiana. we'll take you there just after a quick break. ♪ ♪ you live life your way. we can help you retire your way, too. financial guidance while you're mastering life. from chase. so you can. financial guidance while you're mastering life. i have an orc-o-gram we for an "owen."e. that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh... 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health plans. we've got the bright new face of the democratic party here tonight. mr. bernie sanders. bernie, you look like a million bucks. or to put it in terms you'll understand, you look like 37,000 donations of $27 each. president obama getting a lot of laughs at his final white house correspondents' dinner over the weekend. it was a fun one. and yesterday, the president announcing that malia obama will attend harvard university after first taking a gap year, a year off. out on the trail today, the two democrats who want obama's job. sanders is in indiana all day. clinton started her day in kentucky, and she'll wrap it up in west virginia. we have both camps covered for you. let's start with nbc's kristen welker. she's with the clinton campaign. kristen, they really do seem to be pivoting towards the general election. there's a reason she's not even in the state of indiana today. >> reporter: they really are pivoting to the general election, kate. there's no doubt about that. we know that the clinton campaign has already dispatched staffers to some of the key swing states in the general election. states like new hampshire, colorado, and florida. and we've seen secretary clinton really increasing, ramping up her rhetoric against donald trump, the clinton campaign believes that he will, in fact, be the republican nominee. so they're really setting their sights on donald trump. meanwhile, today, here in kentucky, secretary clinton having a little bit of fun with what could happen if she does make it all the way to the white house. take a listen to what she had to say. >> here's what i want to do. i think we've got some good ideas. we have to have a partnership. i've told my husband, he's got to come out of retirement and be in charge of this, because he's got more ideas a minute than anybody i know. we've got to put people back to work and make it happen. so, we're going to give it all we've got. an absolute full-in, 100% effort. because i worry that we won't recognize our country. >> reporter: so the secretary getting a few laughs there, but we know that she does plan to make former president bill clinton one of her advisers, if she were to win. but, of course, first things first, she still has to win the primary. the clinton campaign responding to senator sanders' insistence that he's going to stay in this race all the way to the convention, saying, look, he has the right to do that, but they're urging him to scale back his attacks against her. >> and when she talked about the partnership she's going to put bill clinton in charge of, i don't know if she's serious or kidding, but what partnership is she talking about? >> she's never been very specific about that, kate. the furthest she will go is to say the former president will be one of her advisers and she cites his experience in terms of dealing with the economy. and some of his success in terms of turning around the economy when he was in the oval office. so we'll have to wait and see if that were to happen. but it's clear, she's very serious about bringing him into her inner circle, if she were to be elected. kate? >> kristen welker dpolg the clinton campaign. thanks so much. let's turn now to nbc's chris jansing. she's with the sanders' campaign in indiana. chris, set the scene for us today, and bernie sanders speaking right now. >> yeah, three events today. obviously, very intently focused on indiana and moving forward, surprising a lot of people yesterday, when he said that it was going to go all the way to a contested contest at the convention. remember, just at the end of last week, kate, he was talking more about how he was going to influence the platform. and i can tell you that this morning in evans, indiana, with 3,000 people, and you can hear it again, here, in ft. wayne, this crowd is really fired up. i've talked to a lot of them. they say that they know the delegate math, but they have two options here. one is to continue to push forward and hope that some sort of almost miracle who have looked at the delegate math. he's so far behind, even if he swings these super delegates, he's still behind by hundreds, and it's still a huge uphill climb. he knows he has to win about 65% of the remaining delegates to have a chance here. and yet even as these supporters know these numbers, they think the worst-case scenario is that he goes into that convention stronger, able to make his case for a more progressive agenda as they look at the platform, kate. >> thank you so much, chris. and when we come back after a quick break, we'll be speaking with a member of the sanders team stay with us. it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... try boost® 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. and it's available in two new flavors, vanilla caramel and double chocolate fudge. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®. her long day as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks. for me... it's aleve. taking a look at bernie sanders on stage right now, live in ft. wayne, indiana. joining me right now, symone sanders, national press secretary for the bernie sanders campaign. nice to have you with us, again, simone. >> nice to be here. thank you. >> i think the last time i saw you, it was really late at night after the white house correspondents' dinner. >> it was and we looked fabulous. >> you looked fantastic, i can say that. your candidate yesterday said that the democrats are headed to a, quote, contested contest at the convention. some people have been parsing that language a little bit. does that mean a contested convention? what exactly does he mean? >> look, what senator sanders meant and said yesterday is that neither -- that secretary clinton is not going to reach the magic number of the majority of convention delegates by june 14th, that she would need to go into the convention with more delegates. so that means that super delegates are going to be a major factor. and going into the convention, super delegates will actually decide who the nominee will be. so that is what the senator meant. >> so it's a contested convention. we shouldn't read anything into the fact that he said contested contest. >> yeah, don't read into that. and what senator sanders also said at that press conference yesterday is that he really encouraged super delegates to take a hard look at specialty states where the people have spoken, states like new hampshire, states like washington state, and that those super delegates should really take a look and think about supporting the candidate that the people have voted for. >> right, but simone, you and i both know the math is really tough for your candidate. he needs 81 president of remain delegates to reach the magic number. you're trying to sway the super delegates. he's talked about that. but in a straightforward way, does he think he will be the nominee for the democratic nominee for president. >> yes, look, there's no mincing words here. the path is narrow, but there is still a path. california has not yet voted yet, kate, and there's well over 400 delegates at stake in california. and we honestly believe that every single person in america, every single state, should have the opportunity to cast their vote for the candidate of their choice. and so we're not going to do anyone any favors by jumping out of this race. senator sanders is in this race all the way to the convention, and yes, he thinks he still can be the democratic nominee. and i would like to know, you know, a year ago when we started this race, no one thought that senator sanders was a quote/unquote real candidate. they called him a fringe candidate. so we have a advisory of coming from behind and shocking folks. and you just never know what's going to happen in this nominating contest. >> so the path as you see it is tomorrow, what happens, and what happens next? you have to wait until june 7th for california to get enough delegates to make yourself known at the convention? >> oh, i think we'll be known either way. i don't think that this is a case to where we don't get x number of delegates, we don't go into a convention with a platform. senator sanders has literally transformed the landscape of american politics. this campaign is a people-powered campaign, and i think that energy and that fervor is definitely going into the convention. >> i understand that. >> we do think we're going to win tomorrow. >> i just wonder what had the path is. you think you win tomorrow? >> we do think we'll win tomorrow. we've won 17 nominating contests and looking forward to making indiana our 18th. the senator is in kentucky this week, he's going to be in west virginia. we're going to compete here, kate, and we'll go to oregon. puerto rico is out there. guam. new mexico. and of course, california, washington, d.c., new jersey. so, this nominating contest is far from over. we are in it and we are still in it to win it. so you can look forward to seeing a lot more of senator sanders. >> before i let you go, can i ask one question to get you on the record. we've been asking, are you going to release more tax returns from sanders? >> yeah, i think our tax returns, it's a hot topic, i'm not sure why, they're pretty boring. i don't know what kind of bedtime stories people like to read out there, but bernie sanders' taxes are not it. he and jane do their own taxes. >> when will we see those? >> as soon as we get a moment, kate. we've -- as you can see, senator sanders is in indiana right now. we're traveling the country. we'll get it done, but they're boring. i would like to know when we're going to see the transcripts of secretary clinton's speeches while we're asking things about things we haven't seen just yet. >> every time we talk to the clinton team, you know, they say, well, they should release their taxes, so, okay. symone sanders, sorry, you were waiting for me. symone sanders, nice to have you. i was going to give you one more shot at it. nice to have you with us. >> look, kate, they're coming. >> we'll wait. the debt crisis in puerto rico, about to get a lot worse. shortly, puerto rico is set to default on $422 million, a bond payment, which is owed on their $70 million debt. on top of the debt crisis, the united states commonwealth is facing a zika virus threat. msnbc's gabe gutierrez is in san juan with the very latest. gabe? >> reporter: hi, kate, good afternoon. we're here at a hospital outside of san juan and we've spoken to several doctors here, we're on the front lines of the fight against zika. some are calling this a perfect storm. puerto rico's financial crisis, coupled with the challenges they face in the health care system, as they deal with this staggering debt. now, later today, puerto rico's governor has said that puerto rico will default on the largest debt payment so far, $422 million. puerto rico has a staggering, more than $70 billion in total debt, unemployment, and it's at a crushing 12% or so. and more than -- less -- nearly half the population, i should say, lives below the poverty line. this is something that is devastating on this island. any talks in congress for any bill to rescue puerto rico have stalled. and now the question is, what happens next? as puerto rico faces the zika virus on friday, for the first time, a death, a zika-related death was reported here on the island. and late yesterday, puerto rico's governor issued an executive order, announced and issued an executive order to withhold most of today's payment. he called it a very painful decision and the next big hurdle is another debt payment. this one much larger. that is due july 1st. kate? >> gabe gutierrez reporting from puerto rico. thanks so much. coming up, prince's family in court today, in the battle over his estate. you know when i first started out, it was all pencil and paper. the surface pro is very intuitive. with the pressure of my hand i can draw lightly, just like i would with a real pencil. i've been a forensic artist for over 30 years. i do the composite sketches which are the bad guy sketches. you need good resolution, powerful processor because the computer has to start thinking as fast as my brain does. i do this because i want my artwork to help people. real is touching a ray. amazing is moving like one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place where real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing so we know how to cover almost almoanything.hing, even a ufh2o. 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talk to your rheumatologist. this is humira at work. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ looking at a live picture there. that's carmel, indiana, where we expect donald trump to start around the top of the hour. we're keeping an eye on that for you. let's turn now to the latest on the investigation into prince's death. his family was in court today, beginning what could be a long battle to divide up his estate, as the singer had no will. nbc's blake mccoy is outside the courthouse in minnesota with more. blake? >> reporter: kate, good afternoon. we saw those family members, those siblings arrive one by one to state their claim for a piece of prince's estimated $300 million estate. the court hearing today was actually quite brief. a few things happened. one, a special administrator was affirmed to keep running the estate until this issue of inheritance can be settled. also, no one else came forward to claim a stake of the estate. that leaves the six siblings to split that evenly under minnesota law. and lastly, the attorney who's currently overseeing the estate says they are still looking to determine if there is a will. right now the family says they haven't found one. they don't think there's a will, but the judge wants to make very certain of that before he starts a division of assets. right now the family says they're all getting along, they're communicating, but they haven't started o splitting things up yet. they have to split it six ways. it's not just $300 million in cash sitting there. you have property, you have paisley park, that unreleased trove of music that has been talked about. so things could get contentious as things move along, but it's going to be some time here before this estate is settled. >> i want to bring in msnbc chief legal correspondent, ari melber here in the newsroom to help us understand all of this. that was interesting. i thought there was no will, but blake's saying they're looking and making sure. they think there's no will. >> they haven't found a will. that was the biggest headline coming out of what was a very brief hearing, because there's not much to do yet. the judge saying, we can work with a financial institution to oversee all of this. and we'll continue to look. i will tell you, when we first learned that there was an attempt here by the sister to get this process going, i thought, maybe there's a will somewhere. we're now in the moment where we would have heard about one if there was one. so that's weird. >> so, so weird. so surprising that someone worth that kind of money would not have -- i mean, most people kind of make plans, somewhere in their life, for the unfortunate eventuality. what happens legally speaking when there is no will? how do they just divide things up? what do they do? >> under minnesota law, it is very clear that all of the siblings, the full sibling and half brothers and sisters will be entitled to prince's estate and his materials, basically. that we know. what we don't know is what blake just referred to. how do you cut that all up? in a particular sibling is only maximizing the money amount of what they get, you can obviously apportion that. they can take a liquid assets, they can take a piece of the estate, sell it off, et cetera. what is more significant, i think, what a lot of fans and viewers might care about is, who's actually going to control the music, the culture. does it go in movies, in ads? all of his unreleased material, he was prolific. who's going to own that? are they going to be oriented towards selling that for the maximum amount of money or trying to put it out in different ways. that is a fascinating part that's different than just other rich people, quote/unquote, he's got a lot of stuff. >> and the options for the court, put it in somebody else's hands. put it in the hands of one of the family members. >> the options of the court are, we want to cut this up. and if everyone's agreeing, which is rare when there's a lot on the table, if everyone's agreeing, you can come to some agreement about what is a fair divvying up. if there is an agreement, then it's not obvious that a particular unreleased album, for example, you can appraise it. but it's not obvious which family member, if they want to have sole control, right, is going to get it. if they say, we think this will sell for $5 million, you may have a family member who says, actually, i want to focus on ma family member who says, i want to focus on owning more of the music. >> ari, thanks so much. up next, we're back out to indiana, where donald trump will take the stage at a rally in carmel, but first president obama having a little fun at the white house correspondent's dinner over the weekend. >> bernie, you look like a million bucks. or two put it in terms you'll understand, you look like 37,000 donations of $27 each. innovative sonicare technology with up to 27% more brush movements versus oral b. get healthier gums in 2 weeks guaranteed. innovation and you. philips sonicare. save when you buy the most loved rechargeable toothbrush brand in america. his day of coaching begins this is brad. with knee pain, when... hey brad, wanna trade the all day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? 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(interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. donald cannot tell the truth in one minute. >> you'll find out tomorrow, indiana don't want you. >> well, sir, you are entitled to have your rights, but i'll tell you what -- sir, america is a better country -- >> without you. >> thank you for those kind sentiments. let me point out, i have treated you respectfully the entire time. and a question here that everyone should ask. >> are you canadian? >> do you want your kids repeating the words of donald trump? would you be proud if your kids came out cursing and yelling and insulting? >> it was a quite heated exchange, ted cruz with a trump supporter. dan scavino putting a vine out on twitter, responding to all of this. >> lying ted! lying ted! yeah, lying ted! lying ted! >> that's a vine. so that will just keep repeating over and over again. but that's coming out of the trump campaign. his social media director posting that. we're waiting for donald trump to begin his rally any minute in carmel, indiana, and that's where we find jacob rascon, he's in the crowd there, waiting along with us. jacob, what do you expect? >> we expect to hear from him in about 10, 15 minutes. he's running a little behind, which is normal. we expect him to get on stage and say his favorite line as of late, which is, if we win in indiana, it's over. it's only a matter of how big that he wins. he usually is pretty good about lowering expectations and then overdelivering. it's important to note that he has never been ahead as he is now in the polls, and especially in our poll, and not won. so we do expect him to go forward and to win in indiana. it would be an absolute shocker if he didn't. and we expect him to go hard against hillary clinton. he's really been pulling all of the punches in the last couple of rallies in indiana. he's looking ahead. he really wants to focus his attention on hillary clinton. we know that he had lunch today with author ed klein, known for books against hillary clinton. we know he wants to look ahead to the general. he really wants to focus there. he's been touting today a new poll that has him beating hillary clinton in a general election by a few points. of course many other polls show that he would lose badly. but this is, he believes, and his supporters have latched onto this, they believe this is ted cruz's last stand. and if ted cruz can't pull away a shocker, it may very well be. we know that donald trump could get shut out in indiana and still have a path to 1,237. if he wins as the polling suggests, it becomes almost a cake-walk. kate? >> jacob rascon in carmel, indiana, as we await that event, 10 or 15 minutes from now. we'll have that live soon as it starts. that's going to do it for this hour. i'll see you right back here tomorrow at 3:00 eastern. chris matthews picks up our coverage from here as we wait for donald trump to take the stage. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. amex helped me buy the inventory i needed. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself? realize your buying power at open.com my school reunion's comi♪ fast. could be bad. could be a blast. can't find a single thing to wear. will they be looking at my hair? won't be the same without you bro. ♪ when it's go, go to choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. book now at choicehotels.com ...another anti-wrinkle cream in no hurry to make anything happen. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair works... ...in one week. with the... fastest retinol formula available. it's clinically proven to work on fine lines and... ...even deep wrinkles. 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Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom Live 20160718

>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. and welcome back to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm natalie allen. >> and i'm george howell. we continue covering the breaking news this hour here on cnn. in the state of louisiana police there trying to figure out the motive of a man who ambushed and killed three police officers in baton rouge sunday morning. >> three other officers were wounded. one is in grave condition. we're told police received a call of a man carrying a rifle dressed all in black walking along a busy road, a highway, when officers arrived the shooting began. listen. >> you hear and see it there. that video from the scene. the gunman died minutes later in that shootout with police. keep in mind the situation in baton rouge was already tense after the police shooting of alton sterling that happened july 5th. and just last week louisiana state police announced they had received threats against officers in the city of baton rouge. >> the officers killed have been identified as matthew gerald, montrell jackson, and brad garafola. u.s. president obama condemned the attack as cowardly and called for unity in america. >> it is so important that everyone, regardless of race or political party or profession, regardless of what organizations you are a part of, everyone right now focus on words and actions that can unite this country rather than divide it further. >> well, the gunman had been very active online and talked openly about the need to fight back. >> it's a very confusing picture of who he was. our senior investigative correspondent drew griffin has more on the shooter. >> reporter: police are calling this an ambush that took place here in baton rouge on this terrible morning in which three officers were killed, three others injured. the shooter dead. and as they look into his social media presence, they're painting a picture of a confused young man, a former marine. he's 29 years old, african-american, out of kansas city, missouri, which means he would have had to have driven about 800 miles just to get here. police believe based on where he was this morning that he had been here, he knew the train, and he had actually staked out where he would strike and kill these police officers. on social media, youtube postings he talked openly about the need to do more than just protest, that killings of blacks by police officers -- he basically gave a call to action. and he even gave instructions as to what people should think of him should anything happen if he would not be around. police continue to investigate this terrible shooting while they're also trying to deal with alton sterling, the killing that took place in baton rouge that sparked massive protests in this city. all of this going on while the republican national convention gets under way in this country and people are just trying to get through what has been a very deadly summer. drew griffin, cnn, baton rouge. back to you. >> again, three officers killed. one of them had posted on facebook about how tired he was both physically and emotionally. that's montrell jackson, we're talking about. the african-american who was killed. he talked about trying times in his post from july 8th one day after the dallas police ambush and three days after alton sterling's death. >> let's take a moment here. i want you to listen to what some of jackson wrote. "i swear to god i love this city but i wonder if this city loves me. in uniform i get nasty hateful looks. and out of uniform some consider me a threat. i've experienced so much in my short life, and these last three days have tested me to the core." keep in mind he is a new father -- or was a new father. your heart goes out to him. >> gut-wrenching words there for sure. earlier anderson cooper spoke with one of jackson's friends. >> yeah, i think the facebook quote that has come out since his untimely passing says a lot. in his facebook quote he's saying, hey, if anybody, protesters, cops, anybody passing by needs a hug and a prayer, come talk to me. i think that said it. i've seen him interact with the community a lot. and every time, i mean, he is just a cop's cop. strong guy, firm, but fair. loving, family man. and you know, the scene at the hospital today with his wife and young child is just -- it's something that i wish the nation could see. i mean, it's very tragic when you see the people that love him. he was a loved man. >> you were in the emergency room. you were there at the hospital with family members of these officers. i mean, i can't imagine what that is like. >> yeah. it's hard to describe. i don't have the words in my vocabulary. i've had tragedy in my family. i've had a close family member murdered in this city. and it's -- you know, that phone call that just, you know, makes the hairs climb up your back is unspeakable. it's horrible. at the same time i think our city is bent. i just don't think it's broken, anderson. i really don't. i think we'll come out of this. >> cnn also spoke with jackson's uncle, who says montrell was dedicated to helping other people and making baton rouge a better city. >> well, the friend of another officer killed in baton rouge, he's also paying tribute. he calls officer matthew gerald, one of the three men killed in baton rouge on sunday, calls him a wonderful guy. >> nick lambert spoke with cnn about the time he spent with gerald in the u.s. army. when asked how he wanted people to remember gerald, lambert said, "his size. he was a small guy with a huge mentality. he was one of the true americans that lived to be a patriot. he was honored to have done the things he did." >> baton rouge is already a very tense place, trying to come together after another high-profile shooting. the police-involved shooting of an african-american man, alton sterling, on july 5th. >> sterling's aunt pleaded for peace, though. very, very upset about violence following violence. here she is. >> we don't call for no bloodshed! that's how this all started. with bloodshed. we don't want no more bloodshed. if you're not -- leave, go home, referee wherever you come from. this is our house. you can't come in our house killing us. that's what you're doing because at the end of the day when these people call these families, they tell them that their daddies and their mama's not coming home no more. i know how they feel. because i got the same phone call. no justice! no justice, no peace. that's what we're calling for. stop this killing. stop this killing. stop this killing! >> that's the second time we've heard that particular sound bite from her played. it's not easy to hear. >> so nice to see the family's pulling together and saying they're sick of it. they're right in the middle of grieving and this happens. cnn's erin burnett spoke with the governor of louisiana about the shootings. >> he called them unjustifiable, and he called them senseless. >> it was a senseless act of violence. it is unspeakable. as i said earlier, it's unjustifiable. it's unjustified. it just doesn't make any sense. it doesn't further any dialogue that is constructive in our nation today on any issue. and it just needs to stop. and for anybody who thinks that they were doing something that would honor the life of mr. sterling here in baton rouge, or i should say the death perhaps, the family of mr. sterling spoke out powerfully and eloquently about the need not to resort to violence. so that certainly -- it's an interesting fact, i suspect, but at the end of the day the race of the shooter and of the officers is really immaterial. this is a terrible act of violence, and it should never happen in our country. >> keeping in mind racial tension in the united states has increased dramatically, this month alone, july 5th, the shooting of alton sterling outside a convenience store, that sparked a number of protests across the country. >> then of course a day later african-american philando castile was shot and killed by law enforcement during a traffic stop in minnesota. his fiance video-streamed the encounter, which went viral. and a debate over law enforcement's use of excessive force was once again thrust into the spotlight. and on july 7th micah xavier johnson gunned down five police officers in dallas, possibly in response to the previous shootings of african-americans by police officers. >> the shooting in baton rouge has shocked the nation for sure, but many people see this as part of a larger division within the country. cheryl dorsey is a retired police sergeant at the los angeles police department and now joins us live from los angeles at 10:10 there in l.a. cheryl, it's good to have you with us. let's talk about this, but first let's set up the context. we don't know the motive behind this shooting. police have not indicated anything one way or the other. we're still waiting to hear from them. but there is a larger sentiment and a greater concern about threats against police officers in baton rouge. in the state of louisiana they were concerned about threats against police officers. what can you tell us about how officers are dealing with that? >> well, these are very difficult times, george. and certainly there's tremendous pain and grief on both sides. and you know, this is not an either/or situation. this is an and conversation that we should be having. and unless and until police chiefs are honest about the things that are affecting our young people that are causing them to feel so helpless and hopeless in their situations that they get to a point where they're fed up and they act out in a way that is unconscionable, understand, i don't condone violence against police officers and i do not condone violence by police officers. but to ignore the elephant in the room and pretend like there is not a causal effect is disingenuous. we need to have an honest dialogue about how to bridge that gap between minority communities and police officers so there's no more loss of life on either side. >> cheryl, i'm sure our viewers around the world can appreciate you getting into the things that are leading up to this, but i do want to just ask you, though, as a retired law enforcement official and for other law enforcement officials, people who go to work each day, they go out to protect and serve, they want to come home to their families, how are they dealing with this concern that persists? >> well, you know, they're going to go out and they're going to do their job as they always have. they're going to be professional. but they're going to be mindful because understand, we recognize that complacency kills. and you know, the days of routine traffic stops, routine radio calls are no more. and so police officers are now going to have to be mindful on every call, whether it's a high priority or a routine disturbance call, that this could be a setup, that someone could want to hurt you for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with you. so that's when we rely on our training and that's when we do that thing that we practiced and learned so that we do play like we practiced, keep ourselves safe, and make it home to our family at the end of our shift. >> cheryl, there's that old saying that there are always some bad apples in the bunch but you can't, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. there are a lot of good police officers out there who do their job day in and day out. so a question to you. does it make officers second-guess themselves at times? >> well, i hope that officers don't second-guess themselves because in that moment that's when things can go awry and that's when we can get hurt. and so listen, 99% of the officers who come on the job do it for the right reason. they do a tremendous job day in and day out. so i don't want to broad blanket the profession to say that all officers are acting inappropriately any more than i want to broad blanket a group in the community to say that they are somehow anti-police. so we have to be honest about our differences, have a real dialogue about our angst, and when we find officers who are errant and who are violating policy and/or law that results in deadly force the police departments need to deal with those officers. families, victims of those police officers want accountability. they want there to be a consequence for the choice that the officer made. and until that happens i think we're going to see a lot of angst based on people who are not able to really resolve those issues in their own head. >> cheryl, good to delve into the nuance in this with you. cheryl dorsey, live for us in los angeles. cheryl, thank you for your time. >> we'll have more on that story in a moment here. but coming up, we're going to turn to some other news we're following. funerals have begun in turkey for people, hundreds killed in a failed coup attempt there. >> how ankara is cracking down on the alleged protesters. as "cnn newsroom" continues. ♪ is it a force of nature? or a sales event? the summer of audi sales event is here. get up to a $5,000 bonus on select audi models. the still feels better after 10 shaves than a disposable on it's first mach 3 blades have twice the coatings. for a closer shave with zero redness shave after shave after shave gillette. the best a man can get. and welcome back. turkey's president recep tayyip erdogan is urging his supporters to keep up their rallies after friday's failed coup in that country. he says pro-government protesters who took over the streets foiled the takeover. at least 290 people were killed, though, when anti-government forces tried to seize power. >> here's the thing, though. the government is cracking down hard on anyone suspected in this attempted coup. officials say around 6,000 people so far have been detained. cnn's ben wedeman has more. >> reporter: as the crackdown against coup plotters continues in turkey, an ominous sound. crowds chant "we want the death penalty" at the funeral of a civil servant killed in friday's clashes. and by the president a reply. >> translator: my dear brothers, i expressed this yesterday as well. in democracies people's requests cannot be ignored. this is your right. your right will be evaluated by the appropriate institutions within a constitutional framework, and a decision will be made. >> two days after an attempted coup to oust turkey's president erdogan, the government has detained some 6,000 people, including senior aides and senior members of the military. the turkish government has demanded that fethullah gulen, a muslim cler nick self-imposed exile in the u.s. can accused of plotting the coup, be extradited to turkey. claims he denies. u.s. secretary of state john kerry responded today to extradition demands. >> we've never had a formal request for extradition, and we have always said give us the evidence, show us the evidence, we need a solid legal foundation that meets the standard of extradition in order for our courts to approve such a request. >> reporter: a key ally in the region and in the fight against isis, turkey's stability is critical to the united states. but with president erdogan asking his supporters to stay out on the streets, scenes like this across turkey may become even more common. ben wedeman, cnn, istanbul. >> cnn is live in turkey this hour. our international correspondent ian lee on the story in istanbul. good to have you with us. an investigation is under way. as ben pointed out, many people behind this failed coup, they are detained. and now the president there considering bringing back the death penalty. there are a lot of moving parts to this thing. >> that's right. and we've seen pictures of some of these people who've been detained, and there are a lot of them. one picture has them in a stable only in their underwear. so you know, there is a lot of people that they've been rounding up. as ben pointed out, there are senior aides, senior people in the military and others that have been rounded up. at least 6,000 in total. and here in istanbul it seems like we're not out of the woods yet. at least that's according to the government. they're still calling for the people to take to the streets every night. last night we heard them and saw them. tonight we're expecting the same. they want to keep up this pressure to show the people who are leading the coup if there's anyone still remain whog hasn't been picked up, that the people are still with the president. >> ian lee live for us in istanbul following the story. ian, thank you so much for your reporting this day. >> the coup there -- the coup attempt in turkey is affecting its ties with the united states. during the failed takeover, turkey closed the airspace at a base the u.s. uses to target isis. ankara has also demanded the u.s. extradite a cleric it blames for the coup. the u.s. secretary of state spoke earlier on the coup with our jake tapper. here it is. >> i talked three times yesterday with the foreign minister of turkey. they assure me that there will be no interruption of our counterisil efforts. it is a fact there were some difficulties at incirlik, but apparently there may have been some refueling that took place with the turkish air force with planes that were flying in the coup itself. and i think that has something to do with what's taking place there. it's not focused on us. they have absolutely assured us of their commitment to the fight against daesh. their foreign minister will be coming to washington with their defense minister in three days for a major conference that we have with 45 countries. foreign ministers, defense ministers, to keep pushing forward on the strategy against daesh. so jake, i expect that you know, operations will get back to normal very quickly. but we don't know the details of the coup. and i think the turkish government itself is trying to figure out the full measure of who was involved and how. >> has this affected the fight against isis or, as you call it, daesh? >> no. it has not. according to our commanders, it may have been a minor delay here or there, but it has not affected the fundamental direction or commitment to the fight. >> as you know, on saturday the president of turkey, erdogan, demanded that the u.s. arrest or hand over one of his enemies, fethullah gulen, the person he is holding responsible for this coup, who's living in self-imposed exile in the poconos in pennsylvania. is the u.s. going to comply with this demand for extradition? >> well, first of all, we have not had a formal request for extradition. that has to come in a formal package. it has to come with documentation for the request and go to the justice department. and we will deal with it. i made it very, very clear to the foreign minister of turkey yesterday, the united states is not harboring anybody, we're not preventing anything from happening, we've never had a formal request for extradition, and we have always said give us the evidence, show us the evidence, we need a solid legal foundation that meets the standard of extradition in order for our courts to approve such a request. so we're waiting for that. they tell us they are putting it together and will send it to us. but we think it's irresponsible to have accusations of american involvement when we're simply waiting for their request which we're absolutely prepared to act on if it meets the legal standard. >> secretary of state speaking with cnn's jake tapper there. >> let's talk now about the situation in baton rouge. it joins a growing list of deadly incidents involving police in the united states. and we will discuss the impact that these killings are having going forward, next. also, two more people have been detained in connection with the terror attack in nice, france. we'll have the latest on the investigation coming up here. live in the united states and around the world this hour, you're watching "cnn newsroom." pipes are. e so i use quickbooks and run my entire business from the cloud. i keep an eye on sales and expenses from anywhere. even down here in the dark i can still see we're having a great month. and celebrate accordingly. i run on quickbooks.that's how i own it. which saves money.rance a smarter way, like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces red tape, which saves money. when they save, you save. that's home and auto 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strategist to spiritual adviser. the baton rouge sheriff says we must bridge the divisions in our country in order to survive. >> until we come together as a nation, as a people, to heal as a people, if we don't do that and this madness continues, we will surely perish as a people. >> poignant records there. the shootings have left a city and the country of course as he said deeply shaken. >> cnn's nick valencia has more on the timeline, a breakdown of what happened there in baton rouge. >> reporter: 8:40 a.m., a quiet sunday morning in baton rouge, when officers spot a man dressed in black holding a rifle near a convenience store. 8:42, reports received of shots fired. >> we have an officer down. we need the bear cat now for an eph ack. >> responding officers locked in a gun battle. >> he had a mask on. >> reporter: 8:48, with medics on the scene trying to get to the fallen officers. >> officers engaged the subject at that particular time, and he ultimately died at the scene. >> reporter: the ambush-style attack leaves three officers dead, three others wounded. the shooter, later identified as 29-year-old gavin long. the crime scene remained active for several hours after the shooting. police uncertain whether more shooters might be on the run. many in the immediate area sheltering behind closed doors. >> we're on lockdown at the moment. everyone is in the back, just -- we cannot leave. and even if we could leave, the police are blocking down the streets. everyone has to stay where we are. >> reporter: baton rouge is already a city on edge. the shooting comes less than two weeks after a black man was shot dead by a white police officer. after consoling the families of the victims, louisiana governor john bel edwards addresses what he called the unspeakable tragedy. >> it's unjustified. it's unjustifiable. the violence, the hatred just has to stop. >> reporter: nick valencia, cnn, baton rouge, louisiana. >> cnn law enforcement contributor steve moore joins me now from los angeles. he's a retired fbi supervisory special agent. steve, you and i always talk when there's something like this, so that's unfortunate. but let's just look at what we know. we just heard the timeline from nick there. this gunman was able to shoot those six police officers before police shot and killed him. it seems they may have been ambushed, it might have been a setup with the 911 call. that's not confirmed. but what do you make of what you're hearing? >> well, if you take the totality of the circumstances, yeah, it's all but certainly an ambush. the guy is an avowed black separatist. he's belonged to organizations that espouse violence. he calls whites crackers on his facebook page. and he shows up from missouri in the place where the first of these police shootings were. and he guns down some police officers. if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, this is domestic terrorism. >> but he shot a black police officer. >> yeah. yeah, maybe he wasn't that good a shot. or maybe he just didn't realize that he was shooting -- when you're 100 yards away from somebody or 50 yards away, sometimes it's hard to tell who it is. i think the fact he shot a black officer does not for one second change my mind about what his possible motives were. >> i understand. because in a shooting, i've never been in one thank goodness, there's all kinds of duress and emotions going on. >> in a shooting the last thing you see is the person's skin color. >> exactly. thank you. and speaking of the african-american officer, montrell jackson, we note that he did some postings on facebook before he died, of course. and i just want to read you a little bit of what he wrote because it really speaks to what police officers are dealing with in this country. he wrote, "i swear to god, i love this city but i wonder if this city loves me. in uniform i get nasty hateful looks and out of uniform some consider me a threat. i've experienced so much in my short life. these last three days have tested me to the core." and certainly he speaks for other officers that are going out on their shifts and not knowing what they're walking into. >> yes. i've heard this. i've got relatives who are police officers. i can't imagine what it's like. and you know, quite frankly as a black man i'm sure that he got his share of -- got his share of prejudice or of wrongful treatment out of uniform. so he's seen it from both -- or he saw it from both sides. and i -- my heart breaks for him. >> right now how should police departments be responding to this tension and the violence that we're continuing to see? we know that in new york city they're having police officers double up on their patrols. we heard the governor of louisiana talk about officers being wary. how should police departments help their officers cope these days? >> by taking actions like that. by -- there are fundamentals of officer safety. that's not going to protect you from sniper attacks or anything like that. but the officers are now going to have to take calls like man with a gun, man with a rifle, in a totally different -- totally different manner. and it's just essentially the fact that there is potential war on our own streets. some deranged individuals want to make our streets in america beirut. so these officers are going to have to learn new tactics. but above all, they're going -- they can't lose their base values, their basic human values because the way you win this is not to cave in to this kind of terrorism. >> well, we feel for all the officers right now having to deal with this. and on the other side the people -- the black community is wary and tense as well. these are really troubling times right now. thanks so much, steve moore for us. >> thank you. >> just to add to steve's insight there, you know, he pointed out that we are hearing that he was part of this black sovereign group. we're also hearing from law enforcement that gavin long followed several conspiracy groups devoted to government surveillance and monitoring and he also described himself as a freedom strategist, a mental game coach, a nutritionist, author, and spiritual adviser. so that suggests as cedric alexander pointed out earlier perhaps a mental illness. the situation, though, is until we hear from police about motive we simply don't know. switching now over to politics, the presumptive republican and democratic presidential nominees are responding to the baton rouge shootings. >> their statements came as donald trump made the tv rounds with his new running mate. more now from cnn politics reporter sara murray. >> reporter: donald trump and hillary clinton sharply condemn the killing of police officers in baton rouge today. as another horrific shooting scrambles the political landscape. clinton released a statement saying "there is no justification for violence, for hate, for attacks on men and women who put their lives on the line every day in service of our families and communities." and trump took to social media saying "we are trying to fight isis and now our own people are killing our police. our country is divided and out of control. the world is watching." the latest incident comes as trump steps out with his new running mate, indiana governor mike pence. and argues they are the ticket most prepared to take on security threats. >> as trump reiterated his call to declare war on isis. >> we have to wipe out isis. these are people -- >> with troops on the ground? >> i am going to have very few troops on the ground. >> reporter: trump touted his decision to team up with pence as a step toward party unity. >> one of the big reasons that i chose mike, so many people have said party unity. because i'm an outsider. >> reporter: even as divisions on policy and on presentation emerge within the ticket. while pence decries negative campaigning, his running mate has a habit of branding his opponents with insulting nicknames, something trump says he won't pressure pence to take part in. >> i call her crooked hillary. she's crooked hillary. he won't -- i didn't ask him to do it. but i don't think he should do it because it's different for him. >> reporter: ultimately, rnc chair reince priebus says those splits will elevate the ticket, not divide it. >> a difference in demeanor is something that will be very valuable. >> that's for sure. >> you know what, but people want strength. people love that about donald trump. but it's also good and reassuring to see a diversity in style. >> reporter: a long-time pence ally, indiana gop chairman jeff cardwell echoing that sentiment in an interview with cnn and insisting pence isn't harboring hard feelings over reports that trump had second thoughts about his vp pick. >> this is the most important decision i think that any presidential nominee makes. and he wanted to take time, he wanted to be sure about that selection. and in the end he felt very comfortable with mike pence. he chose mike pence. and they're going to be a great president and vice president. >> and we're going to follow up with this. trump also tweeted, "president obama just had a news conference but he doesn't have a clue. our country is a divided crime scene, and it will only get worse." >> donald trump and mike pence will be the stars of the show here. the republican national convention, it is just hours away. though protests have already started. how city officials plan to draw the line between free speech and public disorder. >> that's coming up here. also, a couple has been taken into custody in connection with the bastille day massacre in france. we'll update you on the investigation right after this break. beyond has a natural grain free pet food committed to truth on the label. when we say real meat is the first ingredient, it is number one. and we leave out corn, wheat and soy. for your pet, we go beyond. don't bring that mess around here, evan! whoo! don't do it. don't you dare. i don't think so! 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[ baseball bat cracks ] you get relentless protection. ♪olympics 2016, let me get you on my level. ♪ so you never miss a moment, ♪ ♪miss a minute, miss a medal. ♪ ♪ why settle when you can have it all? ♪ ♪soccer to wrestling. track and field to basketball. ♪ fencing to cycling. diving to balance beam. ♪ ♪all you have to sa♪ ♪ is, "show me," and boom it's on the screen♪ ♪ from the bottom of the mat, ♪ ♪ to the couch where you at? ♪ ♪ show me the latest medal count♪ ♪xfinity's where it's at. ♪ welcome to it all. comcast nbcuniversal is proud to bring you coverage of the rio olympic games. now to the latest in the investigation into the bastille day massacre in nice, france. french authorities have arrested an albanian couple in connection with that attack. >> six people are now in custody. isis has claimed the suspect as one of its soldiers and say he carried out the operation in response to the terror group's call to attack french nationals. meantime, a support center has opened up in nice for the families and victims of the tragedy on thursday. it will be open 24 hours a day and offer both psychological and religious support. >> cnn is live in nice, france this hour. our correspondent max foster on the ground following this story. max, good to have you with us. that city certainly and the nation observing three days, the third day of mourning for those killed in the deadly attack. if you could just set the scene for us there where you are. >> yeah, well, i went out to the support center and actually spoke to the minister for victims, who has a very senior role now in french government. says it all, doesn't it, that we've had multiple attacks and they have a permanent now victim minister in the cabinet. and she was talking largely about the children. we had -- there were 40 children caught up in the events on thursday night. 12 have died. five are still in intensive care. and all the surviving children have lost a family member, most of them having lost a parent. so that just says it all really. when you look at these memorials that have really developed all the way along the path of this massacre, you see all these cuddly toys and you see lots of children's drawings, and it's really striking the way children are really remembered most. partly because that's what marked this attack out in a way. the previous attacks targeted adults. and this one targeted children. we know that there's a candy stall down there. and the driver -- i've spock-tone three witnessspockeno three witnesses who saw the truck drive into the queue, the candy store, trying to attack them. but this is the most poignant thing you can really see right now. what you see is collections of flowers and candles and stones with messages on, and each one marks a position where one of the bodies lay after the attack. if we look down the road, that's a visualization of how horrendous this event was. the truck thundering in our direction, wiping people out as they came along. and not to be too gruesome about it, but the way people have been able to locate where the bodies lay was because of the blood stains. thankfully now covered up by these flowers, these tributes. this is really how people are remembering things. a bit later on -- it's very early in the morning. but later on you'll see people just standing around these and looking. >> max, just looking at that, just really gives me chills. i mean, how far down the street does that go? >> reporter: i don't know if we can point the camera in that direction because of the sun. but effectively it goes right down to the end of the trees. >> goodness. >> reporter: and then down there. i mean, this was a two-kilometer-long massacre. the car, the truck drove for two kilometers along here. and this was completely packed. it was thick with people. and the truck was zig-zaging. and we now know that was because he was aiming at the most concentrated parts of the crowd. this road was meant to open up. but clearly the authorities have got this -- it would be very insensitive to get rid of these memorials at this time. and they're going all the time as well. >> max, thank you so much for showing all of us that, and thank you for the report. >> well, we certainly know that this man was was a sick person in the fact that he plowed into a line of children waiting at a candy store. unintelligent and easily influenced, though, is how mohamed bouhlel's lawyer describes the man who carried out this attack. >> reporter: mohamed bouhlel was a delivery driver with a wife, three children, and a volatile personality. in march he threw a wooden pallet at another driver in a fit of road rage. corn tin delobel was his lawyer in that case and got him a six-month suspended prison sentence. "i told myself i did my job," he says. "but if i had done my job badly he might be in prison and maybe he never would have done what he did." he struggles with a sense of guilt and shock. delobel says his weightlifting, heavy drinking client was not an extremist but he did have a record of domestic violence. accused of beating and humiliating his now estranged wife. "he was very much the stereotype of a petty criminal," he says. "there was nothing that would suggest in reality he was a jihadist." he says the attacker didn't really stand out in a crowd and wouldn't have raised any suspicion when prosecutors say he came here to the promenade des anglais not once but twice in the days leading up to the attack. his brother says he even sent a photo that night of himself looking happy in the crowd. prosecutors also say bouhlel sent a text message to someone just before the attack telling them to bring more weapons. police are questioning several people. a source tells cnn those who knew buouhlel say he began speaking in support of isis. the terror group has called him one of its soldiers. "he wasn't very intelligent," he says. "i imagine he could have been easily influenced by religion." bouhlel was never overtly religious, never on a watch list. france's interior minister says he likely radicalized very rapidly, committing one of the worst terror attacks in recent history. and nobody, not even his lawyer, saw it coming. will ripley, cnn, nice, france. >> we'll have more on that story coming up here, of course. but street protests are well under way in cleveland, ohio hours before the republican convention kicks off there. we'll tell you coming up here how the city plans to keep them from getting out of hand. how do robots work? ♪ you need a team... ...working together... ♪ ...doing all kinds of jobs. and the best place to find the job that's right for you is on the world's number-one job site. indeed. how the world works. like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces redney. tape, which saves money. when they save, you save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. and an early morning mode.ode. and a partly sunny mode. and an outside... to clear inside mode. transitions® signature adaptive lenses... ...are more responsive than ever. so why settle for a lens with just one mode? experience life well lit®. ...upgrade your lenses to transitions® signature. now get up to a $90 rebate by mail. when you purchase glasses and sunglasses featuring select brands. ask your eyecare professional or visit transitions.com for details. the republican national convention just hours from now. republicans converge on cleveland where they are set to nominate donald trump for president. >> large protesters are expected outside the arena. martin savidge explains how they plan to control without trampling on people's right to be heard. >> establishing a a protest zone in cleveland hasn't been easy. because you run up against two very different ideas. security versus freedom of speech. but eventually there's compromi compromise. where at least it all starts. it's got access to public transportation and a wide open area, but from here you don't see the cue unless you're up at altitude like we are thousand. across the valley, over the river. which is why demonstrators will be allowed a mile toward downtown over a predetermined route that took months of negotiation. that is one of the guardians of transportation. it's a a unique architectural feature of this beautiful bridge. and the protesters will come right over this. they get a great view of the cue. but they can't get near it. from a security point of view, it works out. if there's going to be trouble, it's on the other side. there's no law specifically stating how close demonstrators must be able to approach. court rulings have said it should be close enough for them to be seen and heard. this is the closest that the demonstrators will be able to get at the arena. we're right at the end of the bridge we just crossed over. from here they are suppose d to turn and veer off in the opposite direction. something they are potentially not likely to do because they want to be seen and heard. this is also where the police presence is likely to be very heavy. and that's why there's a good chance if there's conflict, it's going to happen here because demonstrators will be pushing in and law enforcement will be pushing back. the police say as long as everyone remains peaceful there won't be a problem. but if that changes, they also say they will be ready. martin savidge, cnn, cleveland. >> and be sure to tune into cnn's special coverage of the rnc. christiane amanpour, kate baldw baldwin. i'm natalie alan. >> and i'm george howell. our breaking news coverage continues here on cnn. right after a break. ♪ music for your retirement, you wanted to celebrate the little things, before they get too big. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars. td ameritrade. ♪ [ tires screech ] flo: [ ghost voice ] oooo! [ laughs ] jaaaaamie, the name your price tool can show you coverage options to fit your budget. tell me something i don't know -- oh-- ohhh! ahh! this is probably more of a breakroom activity. ya think? ♪ welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. we're live in atlanta. i'm natalie allen. >> and i'm george howell. we continue following the breaking news this hour in the state of louisiana. a gunman from missouri ambushed and killed three police officers in baton rouge wounding three early sunday. >> and one of those officers is in grave condition. police received a call of a man carrying a rifle dressed all in black walking along a busy road. when officer ace arrived, the shooting

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[ gunfire ] >> the shots this morning took the lives of three law enforcement officers, three law enforcement officers are dead including baton rouge officer montrell jackson. family members speaking to the local paper saying that he was a ten-year veteran of the force and a new father. six days ago he posted an emotional appeal online. he said in part, these are trying times. please don't let hate infect your heart. this city must and will get better. i'm working in these streets, so any protesters, officers, friend, family or whoever, if you see me and need a hug or want to say a prayer, i got you. officer jackson was just 32 years old. his son mason is just 4 months old. two other officers lost their lives this morning. their names have yet to become public. obviously, we'll try to find out as much as we can about them when those snam names are released. three others were wounded, one critically. authorities have suggested but have not flat out said that only one man was involved and was killed in the shoot-out itself, 29-year-old gavin long of kansas city. we're naming him because investigators have specifically said they want to know more about him and they want to hear from anybody who actually knows him. cnn's chris cuomo is in baton rouge tonight. he joins with us the latest. let's talk about what we now know about this incident. you're hearing about how this shoot-out unfolded. >> reporter: lrall right, anderson. this is a quickly developing situation. we do have information about what happened this morning. 9:40 local time is when this first started. this 911 call alerting officers to someone walking down this avenue where we are now but a mile from our current location with a long gun. . so police officers responded. when they did, they were engaged immediately by the gunman. as we know the numbers quickly became profoundly deadly. you have three people who lost their lives, six others who were hit. in ten minutes you wound up having a second reinforcement of officers here and emt on the scene. and the shooter was taken out by the police here. the larger question that's looming is why. and this man presents a very complex picture that drew griffin and the investigative team is working on, as you know. there are multiple identities and certainly a background that is rich with conflict with this shooter. we do know that he was a marine. we know he went to infantry school. that would explain his, you know, success, to call it that, with the weapon. he knew how to use this long gun. there's also a lot online about him and his expressing in no mixed fashion an animosity towards the police and a belief in fighting back in what he saw as this perverse notion of rebellion. was this call just an observation of the man or was it a setup, a design? if someone saw somebody on the street with a long gun and called it in, it could have precipitated all of this. online there are videos of this man suggesting his connection to these types of events believing he was called to be in dallas at the same time a z the officer shooting there. he's going to be a complex picture, but it takes you to the same place, which is this man came here with an intention to do violence and did just that and the police responded and took him out but not before there were tragic losses. >> early on, chris, the police had said that there may be other suspects out there, then at that press conference later in the afternoon they said the active shooter situation is over, it was just the gunman who was killed by police. but at this point are police talking about anybody else he may have actually been in contact with or connected to? is there any public information about that? >> it's the right question, anderson. our reporting is that they're all over this guy's life right now. they're all around his address in missouri. they're trying to find out his connections. it won't be quick, though, because they'll come up with too much too soon. this man had so many different affiliations, either legitimate or desired with all types of anarchy groups and different surveillance people and different types of extreme and fringe causes. so it's going to be very rich very quickly and drew griffin is tracking that down. that's not an easy task. but some of the explanation of these early calls about multiple shooters does sound familiar in terms of the reporting we did in dallas. a little bit may have been echo effect. a little bit may be just eyewitness experience of figuring this out. there was a lot of fire very quickly with, on the case of the shooter, a long gun. as you know well, anderson, the noise that that makes and the reverberation of it can be enough to distract and make people wonder where gunfire is coming from and from how many. >> we're also learning -- and we talked a little bit at the top of the broadcast -- a little bit about one of the police officers killed. >> say it again, anderson, please. i'm sorry. >> we're just starting to learn a little bit more about the officers themselves who were killed. >> you know, we know that there are three at this time. we know that there are people who are critically injured. you never want to get ahead of yourself on the numbers, as you know very well. we still don't know what's going to happen here. these are real injuries and real battles going none the local hospital. but one of the officers that's come out, a 32-year-old, just had a son of his own. there's a special.yans with this officer because he posted last week about alton sterling's death and how he felt such tension from it and such pain in his heart as an african-american and as a police officer. montrell jackson was his name. 32 years old. and this post, people are really seeing it as a source of someone who really put his finger on this situation. he talked about the pain of being an officer and being second guessed in the community that he puts his life on the line to protect and also the confusion of being an african-american male who gets one type of heat in uniform and another type of heat out of uniform. and he expressed it very beautifully. and at the end he resolved to keep protecting this community, if people needed a hug, he said i'm on it, i will have your back. he was telling people not to let hate infect their hearts and then, here he is, the victim of hate himself. >> yeah, one of three killed in tlin of duty today. chris, thank you very much. local and state authorities really have been all over this case working to put together a picture of the man authorities have identified as the killer. as chris said, they're searching for who he may have associated with, where he traveled, anything to get a better sense of what may have motivated him to do that. tonight we're learning that this search is beginning to bear some information. cnn senior investigative correspondent drew griffin joins us with that. at this point, what more do we know about this shooter? >> first of all, anderson, i think we should explain to your regular viewers that we are going to use his name and there's a reason for that. his name is gavin eugene long, 29, he served five years in the marines. left honorably in 2010. the reason we're using his name tonight is that police are looking for more information on this person in any kind of information that could be culled from across the country to those people who knew him. he was known online on two different websites as a man he called cosmo setapenra. he called himself a freedom fighter, spiritualist and he's followed many conspiracy groups dedicated to anti-government surveillance, anti-law enforcement monitoring, and he posted on a group called stop organized gang stalking. on the videos that cnn has been viewing, which we do believe is him, he has talked openly of revolution, he's talked about fighting back against the bullies and in an ominous post that he claims to have filmed from dallas after the shooting of those dallas police officers he wrote, you've got to fight back. that's the only way a bully knows to quit. that's the picture that's being painted at least across his own social media of a person who obviously had some kind of beef with the police who came to baton rouge this morning and from what we can determine seems to have come here for one reason and that was to hunt police. anderson? >> just so sickening. drew griffin, we'll continue to follow those leads. i want to go to montrell jackson's uncle. fred, i'm so sorry for your loss, for your family's loss. please tell us about your nephew. what kind of guy was he? >> anderson, you know, i've been in michigan for the last 23 years coaching college football. but i will go home two or three times a year. every time you go, you get an opportunity to see this young man. he's my youngest brother's son. he was going to be 34 years old this summer. just a dedicated individual. really believed in what he was doing, believed in helping people. that was his whole thing, he wanted to help other people. >> and he had a young baby. >> yes. hasn't been that long. i think three or four months old. every time i had an opportunity to talk to him, he was all about what he could do to help other people. he just wanted to do things. he just thought he could do something to help baton rouge be a better city in which to live. a tremendous young fellow. >> he'd written online in the wake of the alton sterling shooting about some of the pressures he was facing. but being a police officer, is that something he always wanted to do? >> yes. that's what jose -- my brother's name's jose. he was telling me he always wanted to be someone where he could be protective and a self-motivated person who thought he could do something to help, you know, just other people be better. he's been like that all his life. just a dedicated young man. that's just the way he was. >> i can't imagine how his family is holding up now. i mean, where do you go from here? >> it's very, very tough. i just talked to my sister and my brother who still live there. and my brother, who is his father, was just saying that all of the time when he was around, it was all based on the fact that he could do something to change, haddy could do something to make a change and that's probably why he wrote the letter that he wrote. it's so hard on them right now because it's so unexpected yet when your a father of a policeman, you have a tendency to understand a little bit about the type of job that it is and you know these things can happen. but you don't realize how bad it is until it hits home. it's very difficult right now for his entire family. >> yeah. well, again, please pass along our condolences, our thought, our prayers, fred jackson, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> late developments from baton rouge throughout the next two hours of this broadcast. donald trump and his new running mate pence and raising eyebrows tonight. we'll talk about that ahead and more of the details coming out of baton rouge. so you can take your business just about anywhere. plus, our extended range lte reaches twice as far and it's 4x better in buldings. get more done in more places. switch your business to t-mobile@work today. when you didn't know we had hundreds of thousands of places to stay all over the world. or that we searched billions of flights to get you here. a few weeks ago, you didn't even know where here was. now the only thing you don't know, is how you're gonna leave. expedia. technology that connects you to the people and places that matter. don't bring that mess around here, evan! whoo! don't do it. don't you dare. i don't think so! [ sighs ] it's okay, big fella. we're gonna get through this together. [ baseball bat cracks ] nice rip, robbie. ♪ raaah! when you bundle home and auto insurance through progressive, you get more than just a big discount. i'm gonna need you to leave. you get relentless protection. [ baseball bat cracks ] coming to you as we are from cleveland with all that is happening in baton rouge. president obama spoke out calling for restraint. >> we don't need inflammatory rhetoric. we don't need careless accusation thrown around to score political points or to advance an agenda. we need to temper our words and open our hearts, all of us. >> moments later donald trump answered directly tweeting, and i quote, president obama just had a news conference but he doesn't have a clue. our country's a divided crime scene and will only get worse. joining us is trump campaign chairman paul manifort. on trump's response, is that the right tone? were you concerned about that? >> donald trump is concerned that leadership out of washington is nonexistent. it seems in terms of crisis the president will come out and say something but the next day thing go back to normal. what he was saying today is you can't just organize a speech around a crisis. you've got the lead and the leadership is not there. >> do you know what donald trump would do differently if he's president today? >> it's not one thing. it's a whole process of things he'd do differently. one is not have a justice department that looks like it provides special justice for certain people. an fbi that's not pressured by the justice department. those things create a loss of confidence in the judicial system. and so lawlessness is a part of the result, not caused by -- >> i want to ask you the appointment or donald trump picking governor pence. dana bash reported as late as thursday night donald trump whether speaking out loud or had second thoughts was talking about the idea of is it too late to make a different pick. how do you respond to that? >> that's totally wrong. donald trump was directly affected by what happened in nice. the discussion thursday night was him telling me that he wanted to postpone the announcement of his vice presidential candidate because he thought it was the wrong time to do it. he asked me to move it to friday to saturday which is what we did. governor pence was already in new york. he didn't come there to shop. >> you're saying point blank there was absolutely no hesitation on donald trump's part? >> i'm saying point blank. i'm the one he was talking to, and it was dealing with the details to change the press conference from friday morning to saturday morning because he was moved by the carnage. >> in terms of what we're going to see over the next couple of days, this is something you've worked on closely. is everything now set? what do you want by the end of this week the public to know about donald trump that perhaps they don't know or haven't focused on? >> i want them to know about donald trump the man, not donald trump the candidate for president. during the campaign the focus was on his candidacy and his vision for america and what he was going to do as far as trying to end the gridlock in washington. what you didn't see was who he is when he's not a candidate, which he's only been in his life for the last 11 months. the successful businessman, the successful family man, the civic citizen who did many charitable things off camera. >> so you're saying the more private donald trump that you see in meetings and that others, his family see, but that is perhaps not what -- are you talking about a change of tone? because reince priebus was saying that he thinks there's a pivot coming for donald trump. this is something people have been talking about for a long time. donald trump said in a press conference, this is it, this is how i'm going to be. do you see a pivot coming? >> it's not a change, a pivot as you call it, but it's a showing of the rest of the person. that hasn't been done in this campaign. the donald trump that i see on a daily basis is more than just a donald trump sitting out there in campaign rallies. the person who has built a successful business that he has. the person who has promoted people based on merit, not based on anything else, that he breaks the gender barrier in appointing women. >> how do you do that over the course of this? obviously all his kids are going to be speaking. i guess people involved in some of his charities are going to be speaking. how do you rule that out? >> you've talked a little bit about it. the difference between this convention and the previous conventions and unfortunately i've done a lot of them, is more than just politicians speaking from the podium. the prime time hour will be people who have interacted with his life more than the political leadership of the party. who will be presented at other times during the convention. and the focus on family where oftentimes other than the wife of the candidate, you don't see any glimpse into the personal life of the person being nominated for president. this convention is going to show donald trump from the viewpoint of his children, from the viewpoint of his employees, from the viewpoint of ordinary citizens whose lives have been affected by his generosity before he was looking for coverage and publicity. as well as the new political leaders that he part of his campaign for the united states. >> thank you very much. let's bring in trump supporter and jeffrey lord an s.e. cupp and obama senior adviser van jones. congratulations, you got engaged. >> thank you. >> it was a very romantic twitter that you sent out, tweet. anyway. what do you want to see tonight? you heard paul manifort saying we'll see the donald trump that his kids know and business associates know. >> this is exact what i want to see. this is a man who built a successful business and successful family. aside from his business, this is what he's most proud of. kids who have sterling reputations who are business partners in his company. this is who this person is. it's something we didn't see when romney was the nominee, when mccain was the nominee. we'll see donald trump the man. that's exactly right. >> jeffrey lurie? >> when i listen to paul, that's the donald trump i got to know before he ran for president. he's enormously impressive as a human being when you spend time with him. it will be good for america to see the rest of that. in addition to that, i think we need to move the republican party forward. i think he's doing that. i think we need to have some of these family conversations that we've had as a political party over the last six months or so. we have them. the american people, the base of the republican party has made their decision. it's time to move on. >> s.e., it's interesting for reince priebus to say there's a pivot coming, manifort saying not so much. >> that america doesn't know dt st preposterous. we've been in donald trump's board room on "the apprentice," we've met his family, we've seen decades of donald trump. the idea that paul was laying out that we've only seen donald the new candidate and only now will we learn his character, i don't think the american people separates it that way. you can tell a lot about someone's character based on the way he's run his campaign. a lot of people have made up their mind about his character. >> isn't that what campaigns are sort of about. >> 100%. mitt romney didn't have to do a pivot because his whole campaign was his character. we got to know him. so i think this is a clever spin on trump's past bad behavior, but the american people are not stupid, and they don't believe that there are these two sort of -- these two different tracks that a candidate moves on. >> how did that romney thing work out? >> it didn't work out. but let's talk in november about how that trump thing worked out, too. >> do you really believe, geoffrey, that there's a hidden donald trump that the public doesn't know? >> i think there's a private donald trump. i think everybody has a -- your next door neighbor has a private personality that's not on display when they're in church or in the grocery store, sure, absolutely. i do believe that. >> van? >> well, i mean, i do think that his success as a father is extraordinary. and i think most people admire that. unfortunately, we need a dad now. we need a father figure now. and he's showing up more as the drunk uncle tweeting this horrible stuff today while people are grieving. and i thought -- i thought that he had an opportunity when the president said, let's make sure that today of all days where we have dead police officers whose families are still in shock, let's try to moderate our tone. for him to come out, that wasn't dad in chief, that was your crazy uncle pouring more fuel on the fire. and i am concerned about what will happen this week in this town if we don't see more restraint and more concern and more consideration for the safety of law enforcement as well as ordinary citizens. we don't need a cycle of violence and that can be fueled by rhetoric from this convention. >> that's exactly what we need. what mike pence today and donald trump said today is exactly right. we need someone to stand up and not rush to judgment but stand up and say, i'm here. it's time to end the violence and come together as a country because it is sickening that we wake up every morning to some form of violence. this president has taken the most divisive tone of any president rushing to judgment in ferguson, opening a civil rights case and by the way, hands up, don't shoot was the biggest lie of the year. >> if you're going to talk about that civil rights investigation it actually uncovered tremendous amounts of racism. hold on a question. that investigation actually uncovered racism. and i think it's important he did it. >> we got to take a break here. we'll talk about more breaking news. donald trump obviously donald trump and his chosen running mate mike pence sat down on "60 minutes." what trump said when he was asked about pence's vote in favor of the iraq war in the same vote that he slammed hillary clinton for casting. wow. these are awesome! this is my dream car. yeah, i like this. i've been waiting to get in this. real people have a lot to say about the award-winning vehicles at the chevy summer sell down. wow! the design is great. i love it. number one in my book. that's awesome! if you could get 20% cash back on this vehicle, what would you do? 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>> it's a long time. and they were also misled. >> but you hopped on this. >> i was against the war in iraq from the beginning. >> yeah, but you used that vote of hillary's that was the same as governor pence as the example of her bad judgment. >> many people have and frankly, i'm one of the few that was right on iraq. >> back with the panel joining the conversation, cnn senior political commentator david axelrod who served as a senior adviser in the administration and gloria borger. is it hypocritical for donald trump to say it's fine for mike pence to vote that way and go after hillary clinton? >> and to say it was a long time ago? in donald trump's mind he's at the top of the ticket and that's all that counts. it doesn't matter what mike pence was for or against because on the case of iraq they disagree on a whole of other issues trump on howard stern back in the day was asked if he was for invid vaiding iraq, yeah, i guess so. i wish the first time it was done correctly. >> later on he -- >> of course. but it's just one of a lot of issues. and donald trump's approach to this, and you can see it from this interview and introduction of pence on the national stage is that this is about what donald trump believes. it is not about what mike pence believes. >> does it weaken trump's argument against hillary clinton that she has no judgment because of the eerk war vote. >> when he talks about hillary clinton and her record, it is not just one vote, not just the vote in favor of the iraq war, it's the leading the charge into libya to topple a dictator -- >> donald trump was also in favor of libya as well. >> i think syria is the one where there was some issue. >> no, libya. he later said it was a surgical strike. >> he was sore a surgical takeout which is very different than overtaking an entire country. there's nuances there that are very important. not only that, if hillary clinton sat in an administration that the chief architect of obama's foreign policy. he never spoke out against that administration. she endorsed it as she ran for president. she oversaw the destruction of the middle east. it's on fire, every single country. isis is 40,000 strong and we're seeing terrorist attacks every day. she was the chief architect. >> let's listen to that. >> mr. trump you have called for a temporary ban on muslims entering the united states? >> i do. in indiana we suspended the syrian refugee program in the wake of a terrorist attack. we have no prior priority than the safety and security of the people in this country and donald trump is right to articulate that view. >> in december you tweeted, calls to ban muslims from entering the u.s. are offensive and unconstitutional. >> you call it territories. we're going to do territories. we're not going to let people come in from syria who nobody knows who they are. hillary clinton wants 5% more people than obama to come in. call it whatever you want. we'll call it territories. >> mike pence didn't really answer how he came to change his position on that. but it is interesting. >> yeah, it is. the whole interview, it was every bit as comfortable as the rollout yesterday of pence's nomination as the vp. this is a really, really -- and trump said in his interview said i'm an outsider. he's my establishment guy. he's my offering to the establishment to reassure them. then he spoke about 80% of the time. when pence was called on to speak it was to explain how he reconciled his positions that were very much unlike trump's on trade, for example. you can almost see the bubble box over his head saying, you know, governor of indiana really wasn't that bad of a job. >> trump has came out and said this was an arranged marriage to keep the establishment happy. it's not about love. they disagree on a whole lot of issues and let's just get on with it. >> if your trump's campaign manager, i would never have these two do interviews together. >> uncomfortable. >> so awkward to have them talk about one another in ways that they are diametrically opposite in temperament, in tone, in experience and politics. >> when you listen to the interview, it was as if pence was speaking one language and trump was speaking another. >> they speak two different languages. >> as the rating guy here -- >> you'll say that george bush talked about voodoo economics. >> anderson, thank you. >> i almost went to you saying i know what jeff lawrie is going to say. >> they were said in the day about ronald reagan and george h.w. bush. reagan's major economic policy was voodoo economic. george, will you support the platform? he said, i will. he did. that's the way it goes. >> the difference is that ronald reagan didn't try to marginalize his vice president from the beginning. there was no scene like we saw yesterday, nor was there an interview like we saw here where trump spoke 80% of the time sort of back handedly criticized his running mate. >> look, they're different people. but all of these folks are different people. i mean, i remember the criticism of joe biden and barack obama. >> right. >> that one was the garrulous uncle joe and boy, he sure seemed is out of place next to no drama obama. >> go back to their "60 minutes" interview, you'll find a higher level of comfort than we saw today. >> we'll go back to baton rouge. there's a lot more to follow up. we'll talk the a friend of one of the police officers, someone who worked with them, knew him professionally, killed this morning. ♪ is it a force of nature? or a sales event? the summer of audi sales event is here. get up to a $5,000 bonus on select audi models. hair is delightfully fragrancedl with notes of moroccan rose and the freshness of springtime unforgettable, wherever you go the scents you can't forget... from herbal essences, blooming now! and i make dog chow in denver, (vcolorado.e's nick one of my fondest memories of khloe is the day we got her. i knew right there she was gonna be a great dog. khloe's a big influence on the family. she loved lincoln from the start. she's his little protector. i trust dog chow to keep khloe healthy because i see the high quality ingredients that go into it. the standards that we follow are top notch. i trust dog chow enough to feed it to my dog every single day. the wolf was huffing and puffing. like you do sometimes, grandpa? 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(children giggle) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free trial offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. the tragic news just hours ago three officers fatally shot, three others wounded, one critically. the suspect killed by police has been identified as 29-year-old gavin long of kansas city. naming him, because we normally don't, is because authorities are looking for more information about him and are asking the public for help. a heartbreaking day for the family and friends of the officers and other officer around the united states. joining me is the former baton rouge police chief, close ties to the police community, knows some of the officers who were attacked. kelly, i'm sorry you're here under these circumstances. we heard from the uncle of montrell jackson earlier, one of the fallen police officers. you also knew him. he said he was a cop's cop. tell me what he was like. >> well, i'll tell you i think the facebook quote that has come out since his untimely passing says a lot. he's saying, hey, if anybody, protesters, cops, anybody passing by needs a hug and a prayer, come talk to me. i think that said it. i've seen him interact with the community a lot. every time he's just a cop's cop. strong guy, firm but fair, loving, family man and the scene at the hospital today with his wife and young child was just -- it's something that i wish the nation could see. it's very tragic when you see the people that love him. he was a love man. >> you were in the emergency room. you were there at the hospital with family members of these officers. i mean, i can't imagine what that is like. >> yeah, and it's hard to vibe. i don't have the words in my vocabulary. i've had tragedy in my family. i had a close family member murdered in this city. and that phone call that just makes the hairs climb up your back is unspeakable. it was horrible. but at the same time i think our city is bent. i just don't think it's broken. i think we'll come out of this. >> as i mentioned your dad is the former baton rouge police chief. >> you know, i think we all knew something was coming. we didn't know what it was and when it would be. but my father took care of me. i watched him put that uniform on. he was a motorcycle cop for a long time before going into training and becoming chief. i remember sitting at home waiting to hear that motorcycle pull up to the house before i go to sleep. you know, it was a dangerous time in the '90s. we're seeing that kind of come back now. i want the community to understand there's pain on both sides of this struggle. i think today emotions switch sides of the line. our city has never been this divided, but when you look at the blood in the street that was left today by two or three officers, you know, it's sad. and the blood was red. and when you look at the video that the nation saw the cell phone footage, the blood was there, it was red there, too. when you see us arguing about the color black, the color white, the color blue, it just really end up. dead is dead, death is death, pain is pain, families are suffering. we've got to find a way to start communicating even if it's tough conversations. we might not like what everybody is saying, but we've got to listen. >> again, i appreciate you talking to us and our condolences to you and everybody in the law enforcement community there. joining us now law enforcement analyst harry houck, harry is former nypd detective, cedric is president of author of the new guardians. art is director of the marshals service. and joining us the sheriff of the new county now in arizona. police are saying that they believe the shooter was seen earlier in a vehicle very close to waiting in a car in your police headquarters and the investigators believe the shooter lured the officers effecting making this an ambush. when you hear those details, what does that tell you? >> there would be only one reason he would travel from kansas city to baton rouge and basically sit there and surveil the police department. i think we're going to find as we move along through this intersection some mentally unstable paranoid individual. we've heard some reports about some of the websites that he's been on, but law enforcement 911 ambushes are unusual, but they're not rare. we've heard over the decades that this has happened quite a bit. it's one way for a bad guy to get law enforcement to respond and he can take them out. >> cedric, we're learning the shooter, as art mentioned, followed a number of sort of conspiracy groups devoted to government surveillance and monitoring. there's all these people that are generally kind of psychotic that believe they're being followed by government agencies or by law enforcement. what does all that tell you? >> what it suggests to me when i put on my psychologist's hat, anderson, is he very well may -- and i use the word carefully -- may have had some mental health issues going on. sounds a little psychotic. i looked at the information that was forwarded to me, and as i read through his documents, they were just so scattered, so all over the place, so misplaced and misguided. so he really could have had some emotional or psychological things going on. i would tend to think that would be my initial theory about him. >> harry, i mean, if you were part of this investigation at this stage of the investigation, i mean, they now obviously have his identity. we know officials in baton rouge have the cell phone of the shooter. i assume finding out if there were any other accomplices or people involved, it would be priority number one. >> definitely. although police are saying that they believe it's only one shooter. but they still got to be able to find ow whether it's true or not. what happens is that the ballistics are going to be able to tell us whether or not there's more than one shooter. what happens here is i'd have detectives at the hospital obtaining the bullets that are taken out of the police officers that were shot. we'll look at all the bullets, we'll look at the gun that was recovered with the one shooter who was killed. ballistics don't match that gun, then we've got a second shooter. and then we have to start looking for a second shooter. now, if there's a second shooter or a third shooter, it's pretty easy to be able to track down these second or the third because -- i've done this many a times. we've got one perp, we're going to get the other two. if that turns out to be that way, we'll find out who they were and pretty quickly. >> sheriff, do you think this has a ripple effect from police departments around the country, changing how officers respond to even routine calls because suddenly if there's the concern when a 911 call comes in that it's potential ambush or trap for a police officer, i can't imagine that that doesn't somehow change things sort of tactics or procedures. >> absolutely it does, anderson. and this is the first to say our hearts across america go out to baton rouge, those officers or families and for dallas. we're seeing this, this is different than the normal threats that we face. our deputies, our officers arriving on the scene when we're called to emergencies or there could be a robbery or somebody with a gun and officers get shot or get killed or injured, yet these are setups. these are people who are calling law enforcement or atten event where law enforcement will be present in order to kill law enforcement. this is very different scenario than what we've seen three and five different officers killed in a period of time. and so this incident there's a lot of different components to this than in dallas. so that needs to be made clear. all of this information isn't known at this time but we're finding out more information. so for us in law enforcement, certainly we have to be alert. we're trained that way from day one. however, this is a new era that we're going in. so we're going from community policing now to people criticizing us for being paramilitary now where we have these threats with long guns and i'm a cop with a handgun on my >> we want to continue this discussion. we also just got now details on the killer and his travels. we're going to bring that to you when we come back. we'll be right back. the heirloom tomato. intensely-flavored. colorfully-diverse. beautifully-misshapen. cultivated for generations, it's the unexpected hero of any dish. when you cook with incredible ingredients... you make incredible meals. fresh ingredients. step-by-step-recipes. delivered to your door. get your first two meals free blueapron.com/cook. in the last couple of minutes, our justice correspondent pamela brown has learned more about the gunman, including how and when he made the trip from kansas city, missouri, to baton rouge. >> this gunman was not only in baton rouge but in kansas city and drove to bat op rouge and apparently was in dallas on july 10th. and there's a youtube video showing him in dallas on july 10th. he drove to baton rouge after the shootings there of the police officers, and he was with other people during his stay there. what the fbi is trying to nail down is who are thyseese people? friend he's was going to stay with or friends actively or knowingly involved in this plot? no determination yet but he didn't just go there alone and not know anyone and then be a part of this attack. yeah, so also just this timeline that he drove from kansas city to baton rouge, rented a car at some point and did this. and the belief at this early stage and this is preliminary, the belief is that he was armed, not to commit a crime, rob a bank but to attack police essentially. that they wanted to lure in -- he wanted to lure in police officers. what's unclear is whether he made that 911 call or knew whether walking around in a mask in black would lure police officers in. >> one witness saw him sitting out in a car outside the police headquarters? >> the very early information that came out was at some point he was in his car near police headquarters but where the shooting happened was also near police headquarters. it's unclear whether he was at the place where the shooting occurred. >> we're also joined back with our panel. you actually have been hearing from some law enforcement, some agencies around the country talking about change in tactics. >> yeah. some law enforcement friends have actually sent me a memo specifically from the chief of police telling them any call for service which is a 911 call, that there would be at least a minimum two of officers responding. >> i want to make clear this is not necessarily in baton rouge. these are just friends. >> this is around the country. a minimum of two law enforcement officers responding to every call for service. that could mean three or four. >> in some places they usually just have one officer responding. >> so what does that mean the ripple effect in terms of police services? >> it's a staffing issue. now you're doubling up all the cruisers. you know, time off is going to be limited. overtime that you have to pay. so it really becomes a resource issue once you start doubling up these officers in these vehicles. >> sheriff, do most officers have long rifles with them? do they have, or is it just their side arm that they have with them? and also just in terms of their vests, i know a lot of officers, it's a level 3a which is really just for pistol fire, not for rifle fire, knives or sharp objects. they don't have more tactical gear. >> it depends what part of the country. certainly here in arizona we issue an ar-15 to every one of our deputies for some different reasons, but certainly to face the threats that's law enforcement increasingly are meeting whether with violent criminals or incidents like this. we have to look at not only the training and outfitting our deputies, our officers with this weaponry but also protective gear. not just a ballistic vest that with a long gun, those rounds because they are high poured and the velocity will pierce through a ballistic vest like a hot knife through butter. so when you have -- when you're fighting that kind of a tactic like when i served in the military, we had thicker, higher grade kevlar, even with ceramic plates in certain areas on the front and the back. now that's military. and now we're starting to see these type of tactics. training is going to be a big component. active shooter scenario training as well as officer down, rescue training, and these ambushes. and -- >> the ceramic vests are the ones we use now out in the field in war zones. it's certainly something which is the higher level of protection for police officers should have. a lot more to talk about in the next hour of "360." we'll check in again with chris cuomo on the scene. also drew griffin in baton rouge. they've been working their sources and have more on today's tragedy. that and more when we continue. a model needs vibrant hair color to light up the runway. schwarzkopf presents color ultîme. its color blend formula locks pigment in for brilliant, vibrant colors. discover runway colors that last. color ultîme, developed with claudia schiffer. from schwarzkopf. i'm in charge of it all. business expenses, so i've been snapping photos of my receipts and keeping track of them in quickbooks. now i'm on top of my expenses, and my bees. best 68,000 employees ever. that's how we own it. t-mobile covers your business in more places. so you can take your business just about anywhere. plus, our extended range lte reaches twice as far and it's 4x better in buldings. get more done in more places. switch your business to t-mobile@work today. good evening. we're in cleveland tonight. our hearts are in baton rouge where three law enforcement officers lost their lives this morning in a shootout apparently with a lone gunman. just six minutes after it began it was over. three officers were dead, including baton rouge police officer montrell jackson. just six days ago, officer jackson posted an emotional appeal online. it read in part, these are trying times. please don't let hate infect your heart. this city must and will get better. i'm working in these streets so any protesters, officers, friends, family or whoever, if you see me and need a hug or want to say a prayer, i got you. officer jackson was just 32 years old. his son mason is just 4 months old. two other officers lost their lives this morning. three others were wounded. one critically fighting for his life we were told earlier today. the man identified as the killer died in the shootout. 29 years old. gavin long of kansas city, missouri. we're naming him, which we rarely do, because investigators want to know more about him and are appealing to the public for information. pamela brown just moments ago learned he was in dallas on july 10th, days after the shootings and posted a video on youtube from there. our cnn's drew griffin joins us momentarily for more on his potential beliefs and potentially state of mind. first chris cuomo with the latest on what he did this morning. chris? >> anderson, thank you. a lot of this information still coming in, certainly about the shooter's background. a lot of complexity and layers of hate coming out there. drew griffin has been all over that with the investigative unit today. the story begins with the lives lost. you had montrell jackson, mathsue gerald and brad garafolo. montrell jackson was 32. just had a son. matthew gerald only 41. ga garafolo, 45. three other officers were also in difference levels of injury right now. two of them are listed as critical. one of them surgery and three in critical and one of the officers has nonlife threatening injuries. we'll keep monitoring their situation. in terms of why this hand, there's a lot of motive that leads us back to hate. we have members of the community here right now talking about what they believe were abuses by policing. all the same questions circle around every time we have violence against police or violence against the citizenry. we know that all of this started with a 911 call. they believe it was directing police toward a man with a long gun on this boulevard about a mile from this site. and from there, when they encountered this shooter, he opened fire, hitting six of them. reinforcements came in. within ten minutes this started and ended. >> it's amazing just how quickly this all took place. to have three officers killed in the course of, say, six minutes or so and three others wounded. chr chris cuomo, thank you. authorities have been trying to trace whatever information they can find. trace contacts, talk to akwantsanceakwants anceacquaintances. drew griffin has more on that and joins us from baton rouge as well. >> first of all, we should explain the man you're hearing in the background -- this is an area many in baton rouge have been protesting the killing of alton sterling. marches have been going on up and down this street for days since the shooting. as for the shooter this morning, we now know he was a u.s. marine, 29 years old. his birthday was today. you can hear the person in the background again. but we also know that he was online posting some radical sounding viewpoints. he belonged to several groups which followed conspiracy theories about police following members of the community and we were also talking about a couple of posts that he would have on his website under the name of cosmo seta penra. he called himself a freedom strategist. and many of his posts involved following these attacks against police, what they thought were attacks against police and police brutality on the black community. >> i understand he also posted on twitter. >> as i said, today is his birthday. at midnight he turned 29 years old. and at 12:12 a.m. he posted this tweet. just because you wake up every morning doesn't mean that you're living. and just because you shed your physical blood, body, doesn't mean that you're dead. that was posted at 12:12 a.m. this morning. we also know that he rented a car to get here. rented a car in kansas city. drove it here to baton rouge. because of the postings he made in dallas, we believe he made a detour. went to dallas before going to baton rouge. anderson? >> well, he shot to death earlier today, drew. thanks very much. back with our law enforcement panel. the police in baton rouge are saying there really only was this one gunman, though early on there were reports about potentially other people. they said early on today around 4:00, they said the active shooter situation is over. it's done. but in terms of the investigation, as pamela brown was reporting, he stayed at some people's houses in baton rouge. clearly they want to see any network he was linked to. >> they're going to trace -- they're going to really open up his life over the past month or so at least. we do know about some of his past history. up until this point in time, when we were in dallas, we were talking about law enforcement's concerns about a copycat. >> right. >> and here we have him in dallas shortly after the shootings there. and was he listening to -- >> he had apparently tweeted or said some unfavorable things about the shooter in dallas. >> now we have him coming here to another hotspot here in the country, besides minneapolis and dallas, he comes to baton rouge and commits this heinous act. >> an investigation like this, part of it, obviously, i guess it's focused on two fronts. one, figuring out what happened. the exact -- the tick tock, the timeline, but also figuring out, is there something else planned by anybody else if he was involved with others? is there anything else planned? it's sort of, i would assume, backward looking and forward looking. >> yeah, exactly. police are concerned. we've had two shootings in a close period of time. is there a third one out there, a fourth one out there? is there some kind of conspiracy. and like art said, we've got to look back on this guy pretty far. and to me, it's, how did the united states marine radicalize himself to the point where he did something like this five or six years later. that's really astounding to me. so we're going to have to go back and find out where this guy finally -- something happened to his brain where he decided, this is the kind of thing he wanted to do. going back in his background, talking to neighbors, talking to all his friends, people he was in the marine corps with, going through each and every bit of his records, telephone records, home records, best friends, you know, all things like that. that's how we're going to find out whether or not there's a conspiracy. we'll have to look into all these organizations that he supposedly is a member of. that's going to be very important in the investigation. >> and certainly we know about the shooter in dallas. also had some military background. had served overseas. the shooter posted videos on youtube talking about the need to -- about fighting back and that zero had been successful just over simple protesting. also talked about what people should say about him if anything happened to him. it's interesting that in this day and age, people sort of telegraph these things now on social media in advance of committing an act like this. >> yeah. it is interesting. and certainly we see that a lot in law enforcement today. but, of course, if you have someone who very well may be psychologically unstable, he's going to find that as an outlet, a way to vent and a way to seek attention as well. so i'm not surprised at it. and i think we've seen it as well in other places across the country where we've seen these type of mass shootings. >> sheriff babeu, there's information the shooter was a member of a -- what is sort of a sovereign group, in this case, a black sovereign group. essentially, i think, their belief is that the sovereign groups that they're not beholden to the central government. is that your understanding? >> yes, we're hearing more information there. and he actually has what you'd call a manifesto and youtube videos where he's talking about protests and he's talking about surveillance by the government or gang tracking by law enforcement of individuals. and so when you have somebody, and i think your other guest is spot on that there's clearly some underlying -- not just mistrust but likely some mental health issues afoot here, and, yet, on this manifesto, he talks about not just protesting accomplishing nothing that you actually have to fight back. and so this is the culmination and the evolution that he took and is very dangerous. and whether it's a copycat or it's the environment that we're in where not just the protests, the perceptions in deal with race and dealing with us in law enforcement who are sworn to protect and serve and the perception out there being there's a lot of race driving our enforcement. >> we're going to have more from baton rouge after the break. i'll speak with a local congressman about the people in his city are going through at this point. later with law enforcement now on edge in ohio, an open carry state, security challenges here at the republican convention as our coverage continues. & in a world held back by compromise, businesses need the agility to do one thing & another. only at&t has the network, people, and partners to help companies be... local & global. open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t. and an early morning mode.ode. and a partly sunny mode. and an outside... to clear inside mode. transitions® signature adaptive lenses... ...are more responsive than ever. so why settle for a lens with just one mode? experience life well lit®. ...upgrade your lenses to transitions® signature. now get up to a $90 rebate by mail. when you purchase glasses and sunglasses featuring select brands. ask your eyecare professional or visit transitions.com for details. tragic day for baton rouge. the fallen officer montrell jackson acknowledged in his facebook posting just a week ago, the city was already hurting deeply before the shootout this morning that took his life. nearly 250,000 people live in baton rouge including retired general russel honore. lewis congressman gary graves represents the area. he joins us again. sorry it's under these circumstances. what is your message to the people in baton rouge right now? >> you know, the message, everyone here knows this. this is not louisiana. this is not baton rouge. what you saw today, number two, we cannot, we should not let this shooter dictate what happens here and how we respond and proliferating hate. what happened with the shooting several days ago with alton sterling, it's something that absolutely we need to learn from, that we need to be coming together and not allow this to further divide our community. >> one of the officers killed is actually from your district. i assume -- obviously the death of any officer, but to hear that he's from your district must be an additional burdinen to hear. >> it is. these are our friends, neighbors. you see their faces on tv. it makes it very real. i was out this morning out on the scene of the shooting, on the scene of the command center talking to officers that looked like they could bench press a car and these guys are sitting there in tears. you know, this is very personal. it's very close to home. and threatening to rip our community apart. >> does it -- i mean, obviously, it's a law enforcement issue, but does it change the way law enforcement needs to start, you know, operating on the streets? we were already hearing police forces talking about having their officers, even on down time taking meals together or no longer going out one officer in a patrol car but a minimum of two officers. do you think this will have some sort of a ripple effect? >> i think it will. i think it needs to until we get a better handle of exactly what the threat is. the reality is that you have people like this, like the shooter today, that obviously have major mental problems. and things like that are very difficult to defend against in terms of this lone wolf type attacks, as it apparently is. we need to take all precautions. if we lose the rule of law because our law enforcement can't go out there and safely patrol our streets, then that results in chaos. >> in terms of the gunman, there's been some indication he was with other people in baton rouge, staying with people at the very least. it's unclear if they were in any way part of this. it's obviously very much an active investigation. are you able to speak to that at all? do you have any information? >> we certainly have heard similar information. i think it's best for us to wait for law enforcement to come out and confirm those things. but what i think is most important is that this, in fact, is, you know, sort of imported violence. we said early this morning this is not our community. this is not how we respond, and learning the shooter was actually from missouri confirms that. this is not how we would act here in this community. you came down here for the oil spill and hurricanes and others. and people would give the shirt off their back to help out other people in our community. and they quite frankly have. so to see this type of division, divisiveness and hatred is very clearly not what our community is about. >> congressman garrett graves, i appreciate you talking to us. the shooting in baton rouge being felt here in cleveland. 11th hour effort to temporarily suspend the state's open carry law amid fears about security. plus the extra measures being taken to keep the city safe over the next four days. we'll be right back. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise, mary's data could be under attack. with the help 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delivered to your door. get your first two meals free blueapron.com/cook. more breaking news today. repercussions from baton rouge. we've just learned the new york police department is instructing officers to double up on foot patrols. officers are being instructed to take all meals and personal breaks in pairs. repercussions in cleveland as well. the head of one of cleveland's largest police unions called on governor kasich to temporarily restrict the state's open carry gun laws during this week's republican national convention. six police officers in baton rouge this morning prompted it. the incident in nice, france, last week. warren savidge joins me. let's talk about how recent events have impacted security, how it's handled here at the convention. >> it's been staggering. almost every day in the lead-up in the last week to this convention there's been some new security issue raised as a result of some tragedy, whether it be terror attack overseas or shooting incidents in the united states. the police have been working with the secret service for over a year and a half working on the security plan here. they made adjustments in the last few days. they openly admit that. even going down to putting snow plows out in public places to use as a barrier for anyone crazed enough to use a vehicle to break through. the latest concern is those trying to secure the convention are now themselves being targeted. you heard the police union chief not only asking that there be a lifting of this open carry rule here in the state of ohio but also asking their officers be teamed up. that's not a problem here. the officers here are working not in just pairs, they're working in groups. and everywhere they go, they are usually backed up by federal authorities as well as military personnel that have their back as well. i can't tell you how many in total there are trying to secure this convention. 4,000 military troops brought in. at least 3,000 police troops brought in. and then there's a whole host of federal entities that are here. the big thing is trying to protect it all for the delegates and they're all coming out of the welcome party that was taking place tonight. so far only one arrest. a person attempted to steal an officer's gas mask. >> so in terms of the open carry because ohio is an open carry state, no guns are being allowed inside the secret service area. guns are allowed inside the event zone. is that correct? >> that's right. and the event zone covers much of downtown cleveland. the specific area around the arena where the convention is, no. and in fact tonight just before this welcome event for thousands of delegates got under way, the secret service tweeted out, remember, you can't bring your gun to the concert tonight. it shows you the bizarre environment which we're operating in which you have this incredibly intense security level and yet at the same time, state law allows, the constitution demands that people can openfully carry. they can wear it on their hip or hold it on their shoulder. at least one person downtown with a rifle walking around on public square. there were a lot of cops monitoring but nobody steps in because it's perfectly legal for him to do. but it is a nightmare of concern for both the officers and the local and federal level. anderson? >> and have there been -- today was sunday. hasn't started yet but have there been protests already? >> actually been protests for the last eight days. and up until today, there haven't been any arrests. today there were two demonstrations. one of them was an open carry in which not only one individual showed up. another one was holding hands ceremony. it was sort of a circle the city with love. meant to be a unity gathering. there were well over 1,000 for that one. but then an anti-trump one tonight of about 100 people. again, it was peaceful but the police officers, i would say, outnumbered the protesters at least 3 to 1. so, so far, we've not seen significant protests but those really will start up tomorrow. >> martin savidge, thanks for being out there for us. joining us is a former sheriff of cuyahoga county, ohio. what do you think about this request to suspend open carry for the time of the convention? >> i spoke at length about this this morning. i agree 100%. >> from the -- >> the police union. cleveland police department union. i agree with him 100%. i really don't believe that it's stepping on the constitution for five days. i think just makes it total common sense. it's, to my belief, it's a common sense approach to policing during this extraordinary time that we're living in over the last two or three weeks. >> from a security standpoint, obviously from a constitutional standpoint, governor kasich has already said this is not possible. you can't just suspend it like this. how does the attack today, you think, in baton rouge and obviously the attack also in dallas change security here? does it? does it alter it? >> they have been putting this plan together for over a year. does it heighten this security -- they would be less than human if these officers weren't -- they weren't heightened security issues. yes, in a sense, some of them are going to be with two and three and four officers where they are originally scheduled for one officer or two officers. so i think that -- i don't think it puts a strain on the number of officers because we have -- >> the sheer volume of people. >> we have a lot. >> the 1.7-mile radius of the event zone, it still stretches law enforcement. we had a 3.3-mile event zone reduced by a federal judge after one of the organizations sued. but it's now 1.7. we have to deal with it. but i think that we have the manpower for it. >> you think the city is ready for this? >> i do. i do. even in light of everything that's happened. >> difficult day. bob, thank you very much. we're going to take a short break. a lot more ahead in this hour. donald trump and his chosen running mate, indiana governor mike pence giving their first interview together on the eve of the convention. what they said and how they seem side by side talking about some of their differences and similarities. so you can take your business just about anywhere. plus, our extended range lte reaches twice as far and it's 4x better in buldings. get more done in more places. switch your business to t-mobile@work today. 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[ laughs ] we're hours away from the start of the republican national convention. it kicks off tomorrow here in cleveland in the wake of a string of terror attacks and shootings in the u.s. and overseas from orlando to dallas to nice, baton rouge again today. donald trump's chosen running mate mike pence. >> reporter: donald trump and hillary clinton sharply condemn the killing of police officers in baton rouge today. as another horrific shooting scrambles the political landscape. clinton released a statement saying there is no justification for violence, for hate, for attacks on men and women who put their lives on the line every day in service of our families and communities. and trump took to social media saying, we are trying to fight isis and now our own people are killing our police. our country is divided and out of control. the world is watching. the latest incident comes as trump steps out with his new running mate. indiana governor mike pence. and argues they are the ticket most prepared to take on security threats. as trump reiterated his call to declare war on isis. >> we have to wipe out isis. these are people that -- >> with troops on the ground? >> i am going to have very few troops on the ground. >> reporter: trump touted his decision to team up with pence as a step toward party unity. >> one of the reasons i chose mike, so many people have said party unity because i'm an outsider. >> reporter: even as divisions on policy and presentation emerge within the ticket. pence decries negative campaigning, his running mate has a habit of branding opponents with insulting nicknames. something trump won't pressure pence to take part in. >> i call her crooked hillary. i didn't ask him to do it. but i don't think he should do it because it's different for him. >> reporter: reince priebus says those splits will elevate the ticket, not divide it. >> difference in demeanor is something that would be very valuable. >> that's for sure. >> but people want strength. people love that about donald trump but it's also good and reassuring to see a diversity in style. >> reporter: a long time pence ally, indiana gop chairman jeff cardwell echoing that sentiment in an interview with cnn and showing pence isn't harboring hard feelings over reports that pence was his second vp pick. >> he wanted to take time and be sure about that selection. and in the end, he felt comfortable with mike pence. he chose mike pence. they'll be a great president and vice president. >> trump says he's comfortable with pence. they clearly do not see eye to eye on every issue. the iraq war came up in that interview that aired just a few hours ago. >> that's right. there are a number of issues they split. we've seen donald trump go across the country hammering hillary clinton for authorizing the war in iraq. and mike pence also voted to authorize the war in iraq. when donald trump was asked about that tonight on "60 minutes" he said i don't care. mike pence is allowed to make some mistakes here and there that people were misled and also asked is hillary clinton allowed to make some mistakes? donald trump says no. anderson? >> all right. sara murray, thank you. a lot to talk about with the pam. xm radio host, michael sm smerconish. y ina mallika henderson, jeffrey lord and s.e. cupp and van jones. nia, do you buy reince priebus' argument that the differences between trump and pence are actually valuable or is it a liability? >> i think it depends on how this whole kind of shotgun arranged marriage goes. we'll see what the democrats try to do with mike pence's record. you can see that donald trump is obviously trying to in part run on pence's indiana record. democrats will try to make hay out of that. you can imagine that democrats will try to go into some of these states like ohio and the rust belt particularly and say, listen, mike pence also was a supporter of nafta. also a supporter of tpp. so i think it's an evolving thing. you are a republican. you have to put a good face on this. for mike pence, the real problem is going to be whether he expands the base of voters. he is i think, shoring up those republican voters. is he going to be able to expand into some of those sun belt states where it's a more diverse -- >> there are always differences between the vice presidential candidate and presidential candidate. often they've run against each other. ronald reagan and george h.w. bush. he called reagan's policies voodoo economics. is this just business as usual? is it just the way it always is? >> there's nothing business as usual as all about what's to take place next door, right? but i get your point. typically this is a sign of a healthy attitude of welcoming different points view of from your vice president, cabinet or whatever the case may be. i'd answer the question a little differently which is to say he may -- pence may have voted the same way as hillary relative to iraq. the only thing that matters to these 5,000 folks is he's not hillary. and this is a group that's united in one purpose. they are against her. i don't think they are yet united that donald trump is the guy. i've been speaking to many folks gathering already. many are just not thrilled about the fact that he's about to become the nominee. >> as we mentioned earlier, governor pence and trump gave their first interview to "60 minutes" airing tonight. i want to play a bit more of it and get the panel's reaction. >> what do you think about your running mate's campaign and the tone and the negativity of it? >> i think this is a good man talking about the issues the american people care about. >> but name calling? lyin' ted? >> i said campaigns ought to be about something more important than just one candidate's election. and this campaign and donald trump's candidacy has been about the issues the american people care about. >> what about the negative side? he apologized for being a negative -- >> i understand that. i'll give you an example. hillary clinton is a liar. hillary clinton, that was just proven last week. hillary clinton is a crook. >> that's negative. >> i call her crooked hillary. i didn't ask him to do it. but i don't think he should do it because it's different for him. >> van? >> you know, that looked like a ketchup and peanut butter sandwich. ketch sup good. >> you've never had one of those? >> peanut butter is good. on the same sandwich it's a nasty mess. those two people should not be in the same conversation. part of the thing is now nafta. that was his big trump card to run through the rust belt and say nafta, nafta. he's now married to mr. nafta. i think that this was too clever -- >> people vote for the top of the ticket. i don't think if you are an undecided voter you are suede by the fact that donald trump has one feeling on trade and his running mate had a different one. i don't think that's going to be the problem. the problem is that this pick was designed to satiate anxious conservatives, to calm down anxious conservatives. trump's position is so weak that he is still trying to shore up his own voters. a pick that could have reached out to other kinds of voters. minorities, women, millennials. would have looked quite different than mike pence. the problem is mike pence doesn't necessarily bring in new voters to trump's ticket. he barely is going to bring conservative voters. >> no matter who he picked, we would have been having the discussion, he didn't pick the following x number of people and leaves people out because of that. this is the fairly standard kfrg that goes on when we have nomin nominees. one thing we have to be real about other than lyndon johnson carrying tex farce john f. kennedy, i can't think of a single vice presidential nominee of either party that -- when you think of agnew and all the negative press he got. nixon still won. ditto with dan quayle and george bush. favorable press for lloyd benson. didn't help michael -- >> we're all friends here. didn't you feel weird watching that? wasn't that an awkward and bizarre? no? >> here's something. for a long time, republican voters have been very frustrated because we got the mccains, the romneys who didn't adequately attack and go after the other party the way they needed to. we finally have an attack dog at the top of the ticket willing to call out the left. this was very important because donald trump came into a party that stood for certain values and said the platform needs to budge on these issues. nevertheless, he is showing loyalty to the republican party by saying i respect this party. i respect where it came from. i respect what it stands for. i'm putting my foot out there -- >> it looked like he was running this dude over. you go on a date with somebody and the guy just overtalks the date and everybody is sitting there auk ward. that's what it looked like. >> one at a time. >> it's the vice presidency. it's an incredibly -- it's already an emasculating position. the whole job is to go around carrying someone else's water. pretend you never had the beliefs you did. you've always supported this new person that maybe you didn't. under donald trump it's ten times more emasculating. he doesn't have pence sitting there to hog this interview. donald trump is not going to empower mike pence. that's not his brand. whether you think that's a good thing or bad thing -- >> it will be interesting to see what role mike pence if it gets to donald trump being elected president, what role mike pence plays in the administration. >> i agree with s.e.'s point in terms of this was a pick to salve the concerns of conservatives who are delegates. there's not a growth strategy here, though. this is a declaration that in the minds of the trump campaign, it's a turnout election. enough folks and they are white and primarily male and older and we are going to drive that core constituency and people of color and women in terms of trying to win them over be damned. >> but if you had put somebody on there, he's a justice of the supreme court, but leave that aside. if you put clarence thomas on there who is very conservative, you would have people going around today saying, oh, my god, you can't have him on the ticket. well, he's there because this will appeal to african-americans. that's not the way this works. whenever you put somebody on there, they're always going to say you should have put somebody else on there. >> of course that's true. but you can't argue that he is starting from a position of weakness here. if he had put someone like marshall blackburn who might have been able to pull some women in. maybe even conservative women. then you could argue that this -- >> we'd be saying -- >> he couldn't be completely relinquished getting new voters. >> do you think a vp that way has never proved successful looking at identity politics trying to put someone in a place to win a certain constituency. donald trump approached this by saying, who can take my place in the event something happens to me? who can be the liaison between me and paul ryan and mitch mcconnell? >> one at a time. >> i thought one of the main reasons he talked about was because of party unity. >> he never said -- >> he never said i think this person could be president in the event i die. >> he made fun of hillary clinton for -- he said politicians always say that's what they say a vice president is for. >> he wants someone that knows congress. that's been in congress. that knows how to govern this atmosphere. >> that could help him in relationships. >> yeah, but he's very nakedly said that the party, essentially the party is not unified and mike pence was a nod to party uniive kag unification. >> what's wrong with that? >> that's not what kayleigh is saying donald trump is looking at in mike pence. somebody prepared for the office. he is, by the way. i know mike pence. he's a great conservative and a credible politician. very skilled. but what donald trump has nakedly admitted is the party is not unified and mike pence -- >> by doing what they want and now you're upset. >> i'm not upset. i'm saying what kayleigh is saying is not what -- >> van? >> what democrats are going to do, they're going to try to benefit here. you'll say donald trump has a divisive personality. you're going to play that up. pence has divisive policies. going to play that up. this is a divisive ticket. so what was unfortunate about that interview, if you are on trump's side, is that pence's personality is actually great. what you had in that interview was the worst of all possible worlds. a guy with a great personality. he can't show that because donald trump is doing what he always does. being the bully, the bulldog. you'll see democrats do -- pence is an extraordinarily capable and prepared guy. if he -- maybe if he'd gotten a sarah palin i would be saying peanut butter and ketchup. he goes and gets somebody that's more prepared. democrats have to show that even though he is prepared, what he's prepared to do is bad for america and -- >> sarah palin does not have a speaking role at -- >> he used her and threw her in the garbage can. >> too far to fly from alaska apparently. >> he was so proud to have her. pulled her out there. showed -- >> i don't think there -- i don't know what it is but i don't think there's any rift between the two of them. she really likes him and he really likes her. >> a huge name. >> surely there is some reason here that -- >> it's not as if there are other speakers monday through thursday revealed where you sit back and say, oh, i see. they put so n and so in that sl. as a result they don't have room for sarah palin. >> bigger names -- >> he's great at these settings. i've always said she in some ways was donald trump before donald trump was donald trump. she is fantastic in these big, large, you know, arenas. and so i can -- >> i would just say i've never heard anybody say, i heard so and so speak at the convention and, therefore, cast my vote. >> bill clinton 2012. a third american now confirmed dead in the nice, france, terror attack. also, turkey after the attempted coup. what the government is strovowio do when "360" continues. see me. see me. don't stare at me. see me. see me. see me to know that psoriasis is just something that i have. i'm not contagious. see me to know that... ...i won't stop until i find what works. discover cosentyx, a different kind of medicine for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. proven to help the majority of people find clear or almost clear skin. 8 out of 10 people saw 75% skin clearance at 3 months. while the majority saw 90% clearance. do not use if you are allergic to cosentyx. before starting, you should be tested for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur... ...tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms... ...such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease, tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. see me. see me. see me. on my way. find clear skin... and a clearer path forward. for a different kind of medicine, ask your dermatologist about cosentyx. ahhhhhhhh! ahhhhhhhh! ahhhhhhhh! what are we "ahhhing' about!? 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>> reporter: there really is. those pro-erdogan or anti-coup demonstrations or celebrations as they most certainly appear to be at least here in istanbul, only just ended in the last half hour. erdogan really trying to push forward and show his opponents that he does truly have this people power. and it was at the end of the day his ability to rally people into the streets that arguably allowed him to stay in power and led to the failure of this very disorganized coup. we do have these countrywide mass round-ups that are taking place. thousands of people now being detained. among them some very senior generals. this is causing some concern. there are very real fears that erdogan is going to use this failed coup to go after anyone who dares oppose him, anderson. >> turkish officials have also made an extradition request to the united states. sort of part of the drama taking place in the u.s. for a man that they believe or they claim is behind the coup. can you talk more about that? >> yeah, and that is a cleric nailed fethullah gulen living in exile in the united states. erdogan and his government accuse him of having a terrorist organization, a terrorist movement whom they say is actually behind this attempted coup. gulen himself denies this. the turkish president has, however, said he'll be presenting the u.s. with evidence that he says will prove that gulen is behind this. and then turkey does fully expect the united states to extradite him, extradite gulen to turkey. erdogan says this will be a test of america and turkey's friendship. there's some significant tensions possibly ahead, depending on how this all plays out and how the u.s. reacts. >> and do we know exactly what's going to happen next? the coup is considered to have failed. there's been all these round-ups of people. what's the next step? >> and that's what we really don't know, anderson. that's why so many people are so afraid. this was a country bracing itself for violence. they thought maybe another attack by isis, maybe more targeted attacks by the kurdish separatist group pkk. nobody was expecting this type of violent military coup. that's why there's so much uncertainty. no one knows how the erdogan government is going to react or deal with those that's it has thrown behind bars. >> arwa damon, be careful. we'll be right back. they contour to your body.ses it it keeps us comfortable and asleep at night. can i take a nap now? (vo) change your sleep, change your life, change to tempur-pedic. every day, brian drives carefully to work. and every day brian drives carefully to work, there are rate suckers. he's been paying more for car insurance because of their bad driving for so long, he doesn't even notice them anymore. but one day brian gets snapshot from progressive. now brian has a rate based on his driving, not theirs. get snapshot and see just how much your good driving could save you. the wolf was huffing and puffing. like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out, which can make it hard to get air in. so i talked to my doctor. she said... symbicort could help you breathe better, starting within 5 minutes. symbicort doesn't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden symptoms. symbicort helps provide significant improvement of your lung function. symbicort is for copd, including chronic bronchitis and emphysema. it should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol increase the risk of death from asthma problems. symbicort may increase your risk of lung infections, osteoporosis, and some eye problems. you should tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. symbicort could mean a day with better breathing. watch out, piggies! (children giggle) symbicort. breathe better starting within 5 minutes. call or go online to learn more about a free trial offer. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. abdbloating?in? you may have ibs. ask your doctor if non-prescription ibgard is right for you. ibgard calms the angry gut. available at cvs, walgreens and rite aid. we began the program this evening with the hard facts of the killings in baton rouge in louisiana. they are terrible what happened there. three police officers killed. three more hospitalized. we end with a friend talking about the friend he lost. we just got this picture of matthew gerald. this guy would never treat anyone differently for any reason, he says. he always made people smile. officer gerald was 41 years old. a wife and two children. that's it for us tonight. time now for "cnn tonight" with don lemon. this is cnn breaking news. >> thank you very much, anderson. our breaking news tonight. three police officers shot to death in baton rouge as thousands of gop party faithful

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also, make america safe again. that's trump's theme for the opening night of this convention. border patrol agents set to speak tonight along with the mother of the american who was killed in the benghazi attack. also donald trump, he is expected to make an appearance on stage tonight, even though he won't be formally nominated by the convention until later in the week. we'll tell you why trump is breaking with tradition and showing up on opening night. rounding out the agend athe suspect in the fatal shooting of three baton rouge cops, gavin long. he was in the area days before sunday's ambush. and specifically targeted those police officers. authorities in louisiana giving new details in just the last few hours. >> this guy was going to another location. he was not going to stop here. after he was finished here, i have no doubt he was heading to our headquarters. and he was going to take more lives. >> sheriffs deputies still in critical condition fighting for his life right now. a full report from baton rouge just ahead. but we begin at the convention with the stop trump movement right now. it's a last shot here. this is the bottom of the nip nineth, two outs, two strikes. let's take you through exactly what has happened and what's about to happen. the stop trump forces, what they have been trying to do is change the rules of this convention. they say to free the delegates and allow any delegate who showed up not to have to vote for trump. not to be locked into commitments from the primaries and caucuses but to be a free agent. to say i can vote for anyone. this was in the last week that's going to propose rules to be voted on at the convention. they failed in the committee to get a minority report. to get anything on to the convention floor about freeing the delegates. having failed at that, that brings us to where we are at this minute. the last-ditch effort for stop trump. they failed in the rules committee. any minute now, the rules that were agreed to by the rules commite are going to be placed before the convention for a vote. these are the rules for the entire convention for the rest of the week. all the procedures in place. usually this is a very formulaic thing. the chairman will say, i'll ask for the ayes, the nays, the rules are accepted. what's going to happen is the stop trump forces say they have a majority of enough delegates in enough states to force a recorded vote. to get every single delegate individually on the record to reject the rules. to reject the entire set of rules drawn together by the rules committee. if they were to succeed at that, to get a recorded vote, then to reject the rules, you'd have to start all over again and they'd once again have a chance to free the delegates and make this a wide-open convention. the question here, the drama at the moment is when they attempt to get that recorded vote of all the delegates, will the chair of the convention recognize them on the floor? if that happens, if the chair recognizes the anti-trump crowd on the floor they say they'd be ready to provide the number of signatures they need to proceed this. but this is the drama right now. the last chance for the stop trump forces to make real noise at this convention. let's go live to the floor of the convention in cleveland where this is all happening. jacob soboroff is there. we are waiting for the chair of the convention to present these rules. take us up to speed on what's going on. >> the members of the colorado delegation, one of the eight states -- seven or depending on counting the district of columbia. this musical interlude we're having right now, as you have said to adopt the rules of the rules committee is because they're trying to delay. trying to whip. all these colorful hats are members of the republican whip operation. you see them right there all around here. what we're looking at if you come back over here towards me is the microphone from which the members of the colorado delegation are going to move for a role call on the adoption of the rules. they have the right to do that because they have collected the necessary signatures of 50% of the delegates from seven different states. if you do that, you are allowed to get a role call. it's not just a voice vote. this gentlemen is holding the position of his congressman. your congressman is -- >> ken buck. >> ken buck will be the one to move. if not, you'll be the one to move for adoption of the rules. >> that's correct. >> so once, do you -- basically the issue is, are you going to be recognized. are they going to turn your microphone on to allow you to make that motion? do you have any idea whether they'll do that? that happens at the discretion of the chair who currently is reince priebus. do you have any idea if they turn it on? >> i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't but we're prepared to get loud on a point of order. and other states willing to do the same. >> they were trying to find the secretary of the convention susie holden to deliver those petitions to her. there were accusations from the woman in the blue who leads the stop -- the free the delegates movement that she was hiding. they couldn't find her in order to deliver those petitions. the former senator from the state of new hampshire had to deliver them essentially through an emissary to get this process in motion. right now, again, we're just waiting around. the texas delegation is waving their hands around, jamming to the songs. and that is because this delay, this pause is because the whip operation of the republican party and the donald trump campaign, according to the free the delegates stop trump movement are trying to stall as long as they can to get people to take their names off -- >> you're blocking the islaisle. get out of the way. >> not really blocking the room. >> they are trying to stop this process from getting under way. >> we're waiting like the rest of them to see if those microphones are going to turn on. if the secretary recognizes those petitions. >> jacob soboroff, stand by. we think it will be reince priebus to take the stage, the rnc chair to take the stage to put a voice vote out there on adopting all of the rules. and then the drama would be would reince priebus as the chairman recognize the gentleman jacob was just talking to there, ken buck, from colorado. i want to bring in ben ginsburg. nobody knows more about the rules and procedures at republican conventions than ben. it looks like the drama will be reince priebus. he doesn't want a recorded vote on the rules. he doesn't want this convention being bogged down. he doesn't want a chance that could pass. do you think he could get away with ignores these calls in the next few minutes from the floor? >> i think that's difficult to do if you're reince priebus. it's been reported that the delegates have met their obligations to get the signatures in. i'm also not sure it's going to be reince priebus in the chair. it's operating under the rules of the house of representatives. and it is completely possible that you will find a member of the house rules committee up there wielding the gavel. >> and so what happens if then -- if he is forced if it's priebus or somebody else if they are forced to recognize the free the delegates crowd, forced then to have a recorded vote? is there any chance that on the recorded vote, every dell gegat gets to cast a vote. is there a chance they get voted down? >> there's a chance. delegates are not bound for matters of rules votes. only on the presidential roll call. so it's a possibility. however, i think the whip operation of the trump and the rnc are strong enough and organized enough. i think that's a really tough road to hoe. >> okay. if you'd stand by, too, ben ginsberg. we say these conventions have no drama and no excitement. i feel luike it's 1976 in kansa city. back to you, jacob. you have the petition they're trying to present. >> i have the petition. we're seeing someone come out to the stage. here's washington state. there's washington, d.c., after washington, d.c., is maine. let's see what's happening. they're recognizing the chair of the rules committee to present the rules committee report. here she comes. >> mr. chairman, fellow delegates, i offer the following resolution and ask for its immediate consideration. resolved that the rules as printed and distributed be adopted as the rules for the election and the governing of the republican national committee. the rules under which delegates and alternate delegates shall be elected, selected and allocated. and the rules which serve as the rules of the republican national convention. mr. chairman and delegates of the convention, the report of the committee on rules and order of business has been printed and distributed to the delegates. these rules incorporate the changes adopted by the convention committee on rules and order of business at our earlier meeting today. i am honored to have served as the chairwoman of this committee and i am proud of our committee's work. mr. chairman, these rules will provide a strong governing framework for our convention and our party. i move the adoption of the resolution and yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. without objection, the previous question is ordered. the question is on adoption of the resolution. all those in favor say aye. all those opposed no. and in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. and the resolution is agreed to. without objection, the motion to reconsideration is laid upon the table. the chair now recognizes the delegate from the state of west virginia. >> wow, steve -- this is incredible, steve. they say the ayes have it on a voice vote. they are saying the ayes have it on a voice vote despite the signatures on the petitions that were submitted. they are calling for a roll call vote. we're live on msnbc. what do you have to say? >> they should give us a roll call vote. they're making a motion right now. >> roll call vote! roll call vote! >> i now have the honor of recognizing the chairman of the platform committee, united states senator john brasso. >> so they've moved on? they've moved on. they've moved on, steve. they are not recognizing the petition. congressman buck, what do you have to say? >> congressman, we're live on msnbc. >> kendall, leader of the free the delegate -- they completely ignored the petitions here. >> well, are we surprised that they ignored the voice of the people that obviously were screaming? let's keep this going. >> roll call vote! roll call vote! roll call vote! roll call vote! >> this is unbelievable especially if the required number of petitions were submitted to the secretary of the convention. they're saying they were. they have showed us those petitions. i was in the process of showing you those live on the air when they called for this voice vote. and the chairman at the time said he recognized the voice vote and said that the ayes have it. you heard it yourself. there were a lot of nays. but regardless of whether the ayes ore n nays had it, they submitted petitions under the rules that were supposed to be recognized, and they were not. >> and just tell meem here on the left side of your screen what you're seeing. that gentleman at the microphone is walking away. that's ken kuchinelli, the former attorney general from the state of virginia. he's one of the leaders in the stop trump, in the never trump movement. he was trying to get the attention of the chair from the delegation microphone in virginia. you see that microphone shut off. he was tapping on. shouting into it. a lot of delegations -- >> not only that. not only that but ken cuccinelli formed an alliance. he wanted to see if the rules committee, a set of changes made to the rules that would change the primary schedule. other things people said were favorable to a ted cruz run in 2020. they made an alliance to sign these petitions in order to reject the rules as they were accepted between the free the delegates movement and essentially the ted cruz 2020 movement. both of these movements have been rejected here by what they call the republican establishment. >> stand by jacob soboroff. we still have ben ginsberg with us. you are watching this as it plays out. the question is, what next? is there any recourse here just in terms of making noise on the convention floor for the stop trump forces to force a recorded vote? >> first of all, there are two dozen parliamentarians behind the podium dying a thousand deaths because they know they handled this wrong. so now if you are the delegates, you can interrupt any votes that come up now. it's a procedural matter. their most likely target is to put another name in nomination for vice president. that will be the single loudest protest that they could use. there are several things when the presidential roll call vote comes up. they can again submit petitions asking for -- asking for a roll call vote during the presidential vote now. so that, in fact, what the chair has done by moving this through and not recognizing the petition is to give license to any forms of protest. and, steve, it was also noteworthy that reince priebus was not in the chair for that vote. not wanting to take the political heat. >> so, ben, in the immediate future now, what happens next at this convention? they are going to try to come become out whether it's reince priebus or somebody else is going to try to move this thing along. can these delegates, these free the delegates people disrupt this, whatever they try to do next? >> they can certainly disrupt it in terms of the volume that you just heard. this is not festive music they're taking the break for. this is, holy, cow, what do we do now music? and there's a difference. so they know that as the program proceeds it's acceptable at any time to the verbal sort of objections. when they get to other votes, and they still have to pass, for example, the platform report and the committee on permanent organization, and there may be an objection to the people that are the chairs of the convention that could be lodged by the delegates. but any time there's now a call for a voice vote on any of the procedural matters, including nominating the president, nominating the vice president, other committee reports, they've now subjected themselves to a very, very angry and vocal crowd. >> okay. that's ben gins berg. let's reset for anybody just tuning in, what is happening on the floor at the republican convention right now? the stop trump forces tried to force a recorded vote over the rules for the republican convention. they wanted to reject the rules for the week to go back and draw up new rules. new rules that might free up the delegates and allow them to nominate another candidate. a voice vote on accepting the rules was taken. there were loud objections, loud protests from the audience but the chair of the convention delaired the ayes have it. did not recognize any of the objections from those who said they had enough signatures from ce delegates to force that recorded vote. let's go back to jacob soboroff on the floor. >> so the colorado delegation, here's kendall, the leader of the free the delegates movement. let me help david our cameraman up off the chair. there we go. the colorado delegation has walked out of the arena. they've walked out of the arein arena and are protesting donald trump as the nominee. >> i have to make sure i have my phone. >> are you going to submit a different vice presidential nominee? the delegation is walking out. what is the plan? >> i'm going to find my assistant. >> there are other states here. i'm going to stand here with kendall. we have an empty colorado delegation. let's go with kendall as she walks out of the republican convention. what's the next step? >> we have a plan. we always have a plan. >> we have a plan, she's says. >> before you go out, what's the plan? >> we're going to reconvene and follow our plan b. >> the co-founder of the free the delegates movement. the colorado delegation has walked out. what are you going to do? >> we're going to reconvene back here and talk about things. it gave us an opportunity to talk among ourselves and figure out what to do. >> there are other states that approved this. i want to be careful because we have some cords. the main delegation also voted for this petition. bear with us as we walk over to maine and see what they're doing. >> jacob is walking over to maine. keep one thing in mind about these delegations. these are states that largely were very anti-trump. colorado had a series of conventions to pick its delegates. remember, donald trump did terribly in those meetings. that's probably the single most hostile state at this convention to donald trump is colorado. and jacob saying that colorado delegation has now walked out of this convention. that is a very unusual move at a convention like this. we talk about how this in many ways, a throwback to past conventions. you have to go back to generations to when walkouts were not common. famously at the democratic convention there were walkouts over civil rights 50 or 60 years ago. jacob soboroff has made his way over to maine. donald trump lost maine in the caucuses. jacob soboroff, what do you have? >> on the way to maine, i ran into a former senator gordon humphrey. he's a part of this movement. senator humphrey, the colorado delegation has vacated their seats and walked out. what's your reaction to that? >> i think it's more than justified. i sought to be recognized to raise a point of parliamentary inquiry and was immediately drowned out by people i would refer to as brown shirts around in my surroundings. >> as a member, a former member of the u.s. senate, is this how this procedure is supposed to work? we're being governed by the rules of the house of representatives. is this fair? is this right? >> well, you just saw the motion -- second most important item of business rushed through in a split second with no opportunity for debate. no opportunity for questions. no opportunity for points of order. and no roll call vote, although, nine states under the rules, requested a roll call vote and demanded a roll call vote and should have been accorded that. pretty shocking and shameful. i've seen a lot. but this is not a meeting of the republican national committee. this is a meeting of brown shirts. >> what's do you mean by that? >> i mean people who act like fascists. they might not be fascists but they act like fascists. they have the manners or lack of manners of fascists. in this respect they're too reflective of donald trump himself. >> do you have a message to donald trump? you are a former united states senator. what's your message for the presumptive nominee based on what happened here? >> never trump. >> never trump. we'll continue to the maine delegation. thank you former senator humphrey. the maine delegation is -- >> while you make your way over there, it looks like there's some more commotion here. that was gordon humphrey likening the process to a fascism there. gordon humphrey -- kelly, what do you have? >> this is home for reince priebus and house speaker paul ryan. and so they don't want to see this happen. one of the delegates here. can you tell me, do you even have a sense of what's unfolding here? >> my understanding it's about whether or not we need to have a roll call vote over the rules. and the rules, i think, essentially it's with regards to whether some of the delegates could be unbound. >> did you expect to having to shouting with delegates from other states in this way? >> i think frankly, it's not a big surprise. we know coming into convention there was a lot of contention with this still. it's a convention. i've been here before. i was in tampa bay four years ago. they were shouting there as well. >> do you think this reflects in any way negatively on the republican party right now, especially with the speaker and the chairman coming from your state? >> no, not at all. i mean, this is -- it's a party of multiple ideas. there's a lot of diverseth. and i think people need to have their voices heard today. we'll do the shouting. we'll work through this and get through the convention and move ahead unifid. >> do you think this burns itself out today? >> maybe not necessarily today. it's been a contentious primary. we have to work through this. it's going to take time. i do think we'll come together. >> thank you for your time. you get a sense here that everybody is sort of spontaneous at the moment. as we've walked through the crowd here, you have got people huddling together trying to strategize. you have people checking their phones. not entirely clear on where things stand. then you have the booing, the shouting, the trying to lead the shouting, and thumbs down here and people trying to get a sense of what's happening. so this is one of those moments where it's not predetectibl abi predictable or going according to the program. i have talked to some who do not like to see this action happening because -- >> kelly, good report there. stand by. we're going to go up to the podium and see what's going on up there. >> -- to fall below the threshhold required under the rules. accordingly -- accordingly, the chair has found insufficient support for the request for a record vote. ready for the script? >> the chair now recognizes the delegate from the state of west virginia for the purpose of offering a resolution. >> mr. chairman, i am mediclani clark from west virginia offering the following resolution. re -- mr. chairman, for the purposes of explaining the report, i appeal to the chair of the committee, governor, the congresswom congresswoman. >> i now have the honor of recognizing the chairman of the platform committee, united states senator john barrasso. >> what's happening here, the convention now, convention organizers trying to move forward with the rest of the agenda. jacob soboroff on the floor there. take us through what just happened. if i understood that, did they make a ruling on these petitions for a recorded vote? >> so, steve, what happened here is the chair at the podium at the time said that the people had withdrawn their signatures from the petitions as they had been submitted meaning they didn't have enough states -- got that required amount. half of the delegates in order to reject the rules. senator mike lee from utah is here right now talking to reporters. i'm going to see if i can get in there. >> senator lee, we're live on msnbc. what's your reaction? >> i'd really like to know which states pulled out. it's my understanding there may have been 10 or 11 states. they said there were 9 and 3 withdrew. if there were 10 or 11 and 3 withdrew then they still met the threshold of seven to be entitled to a roll call vote. we've been trying to raise a point of information to find out. don't have an answer yet. >> you want to know what those three states are. you think you might have enough states that have gone to 50% to force a roll call? >> that's essentially correct. >> what's your message to the rnc, to donald trump? >> i don't know. i'm taking this one step at a time. >> how do you feel? >> we are being ignored as delegates. >> i've never seen anything like this. the chairman of the convention walked off the stage and left it completely untakened f unattend 10 minutes. this is a simple garden variety mechanism we were employing to ask for a roll call vote. we don't regard that as unusual. it certainly isn't a good reason to abandon -- for the chair to abandon the podium for ten minutes and then come back with a very brief explanation that doesn't answer any of the questions we've got. so a little frustrated. >> you think this is a deliberate effort to quash the stop trump movement? >> i have no idea. i can't speak for them. i don't know what's in their hearts or heads. i'd like my questions answered. this is about the future of our party. this isn't just about this week or this year. this is about the future of the party. we want a party where people can now and into the future feel comfortable coming forward and making their arguments, where people can be heard before. people are unheard in many contexts. in their jobs at homes. they don't come from hundreds or thousands of miles to be unheard here. we want this to be a robust party that celebrates and welcomes its grassroots activists. rather than telling them their vote doesn't matter. rather than tell them they don't have a say in the rules of their convention. >> senator humphrey called these fascist-style tactics. do you agree with him? >> i'm not sure what he's talking about. he speaks for himself. i speak for myself. >> senator mike lee, thank you. frustration, confusion from the senator from utah. ted cruz supporter. somebody part of one of these efforts. extraordinary thing to see. >> what just happened here? so the rules were put up for a vote. the rules for the convention were put up for a vote. they wanted to force a recorded vote on adopting the rules and they want to defeat the rules to go back, write new rules and come up with a new nominee. what they needed was a majority. signatures from a majority of eight delegations. they say -- >> only seven states. >> seven delegations. they need a majority from seven delegations. the ruling that's come back is after they submitted those petitions, people who signed asked that their names be taken off and that, therefore, they did not when those names were taken off have a threshold needed to force a recorded vote. now the convention going on to, business from mike lee and gordon humphrey from that loud reaction we have been hearing from that crowd. this is not going over well with the stop trump forces. they think there's some chicanery going on here. hallie jackson is on the floor. that's ted kucuccinelli you're with. >> you seem quite disappointed. >> you are quite a diplomat. especially after 2012, this is infuriating to watch an rnc-run convention roll right through the same gaveling through people following the rules they did in 2012. this is really appalling. this is the party of law and order that i was an attorney general. that was -- that matters to me. and if you won't obey your own rules, there's no reason to think you'll obey any others. we have rnc trampling their own grassroots delegates. for most of us, this was about getting good grassroots rules and getting a voice in the vote. you have unbinding people over there. you've spent more time on that. but that is not where this all came from. >> what is next for you? where do you go from here given what we're seeing unfold at this moment? >> i understand lucy is open and it costs a nickel. but this is done. they rolled through. they cheated. they cheated. that's what you just saw. you saw them violate their own rules. if the rules don't matter, i'm not quite sure why we spend all this time writing them. >> what about people who say this is just a ploy for a ted cruz bid coming up. >> that's ridiculous. this is not useful if ted has stayed away from this, we have stayed away from unbinding. the people you see here in virginia, we have a couple of unbinding delegates. overwhelmingly, the virginia delegation signed the petitions for the roll call vote today because we're disappointed -- well, we were furious about the treatment thursday, but disappointed in a set of rules that centralized more and more and more power in the rnc and its chairman instead of going the other way. we put in amendments to protect, to actually fix the problems identified by donald trump, like those selection committees that picked delegates behind closed doors. remember those protests in florida, indian atten ten. we put in attempts to fix that. we put in amendments that trump people universally hated. we tried to fix that's. they voted them down. we were trying to do the right thing for the grassroots. we have kasich and trump and people who never committed to anybody yet supporting this effort. >> big picture, ken. you are using incredibly strong language to describe your own party and the leadership of the party you ascribe to. do you still call yourself a republican? >> look, i am proud of virginia republicans here today. we stood together as a majority for the rule of law. i wish the rnc had followed the lead of its first commonwealth. the commonwealth of virginia. it's really a sad day. >> thank you. steve, we call him disappointed in the beginning. you can fairly say he's furious now. what has become a raucous scene here on the floor of the convention. >> if you thought this was going to be all unity, all infomercial like we've become accustomed to, the last half an hour on the floor in cleveland should disabuse you of that notion. let's check in with ben ginsberg. certainly no bigger authority on republican rules and procedures than ben. so what it looks like happened here, obviously, the anti-trump forces claiming this was cheating. but you had these petitionsed some e submitted from all these state delegations. trying to get people to take their names off those petitions. this is the technicality under which this recorded vote was avoided. >> what happened in real terms was the rnc whip teams, the guys on the floor there in white hats, orange hats and green hats pulled delegates off the floor, took them to the side. they had other petitions ready to go that said i'm withdrawing my name. now what you don't know right now is whether that's true or not because you -- jacob showed you the petitions asking for the roll call vote. what you haven't seen is the petitions with the signatures saying they're off. that's the sleight of hand in all of this. now the business of the convention has moved on, even if you -- even if it's discovered that the signatures were not taken off correctly, it's very, very difficult to go back and fix that. so the real reporting now, steve, is to find the delegates who were pressured to take their names off the petitions and talk to them about their intimate experiences with the whip team. >> you were alluding to this earlier. a lot of commotion behind you. let's revisit this issue then of where the stop trump force goes. obviously they are very upset. you hear the rhetoric there. ken cuccinelli saying the party cheated in shooting down their try to get a recorded vote here. gordon humphrey invoking the term fascism. you said one option here going forward to disrupt this convention, if that's the route they want to go, would be to force a contested vote on the vice presidential nomination. >> right. so there's the street theater part and then there's the rule part. the street theater part is yelling very loudly at inopportune moments to throw off the program. the rules part are things when the presidential vote comes up, delegates can try to abstain. that's another procedural move that will run into a difficult condition for the chair. just like the colorado delegation walked out at this point, they could just as well walk out and abstain from the vote. donald trump still has to get 1,237 delegates. and so if delegates don't vote, when the stop trump folks may think that's a way to stop him from being nominated. >> ben, one quick question here. that's an interesting point. trump, we know, has more than 1,237 who are committed to him under the rules of these primaries and caucuses. bound to him by the state rules and party rules. do we have any sense of all those trump delegates how many of them would like to vote against him on any of those procedural matters? they're bound to trump but they're anti-trump. how big is that contingent? >> the consensus from the whip organizations and from people involved in the process is that there are between 300 and 400 delegates pledged to donald trump who, in fact, are not supporters of him. i think that's a lot of what you heard in the yelling there. and i think the reason that the rnc probably didn't allow the roll call vote to occur simply because they weren't actually sure of what the outcome would be because of those pledged trump delegates who are not necessarily for him. that can also play out in the vice presidential nomination where the delegates are not bound to support mike pence. they can sign petitions to put another candidate's name in nomination. so that's another point of vulnerability for the whip team. >> ben ginsberg, please continue to stand by. invaluable resource. let's go back on to the floor. jacob soboroff, what do you have? >> i spoke with mike lee as he was walking off the floor. the senator from utah angry about what happened here and not being recognized in order to call for the roll call vote. i asked him if he was going to walk out of the republican convention like the colorado delegation did. he said no. what he's focused on now is the delegations that have all submitted that required paperwork and which ones were withdrawn. i want to read them to you. the states that reportedly submitted paperwork to the secretary of the convention. washington, d.c., the district of columbia, minnesota, wyoming, iowa, utah, colorado, washington state, maine and virginia. i want to show you the folks who are part of this whip operation. this gentleman in the neon hat. were you part of the whip operation? you're obviously not allowed to talk. i'll try another one. we'll see. were you part of the whip operation to recall the recall votes? they'll not talk to you. they're very secretive about this process. as ben ginsberg said, the time comes to see the petition that replaced the petition submitted by the stop trump movement. we're trying to figure out how to get our hands on those. >> just to reset, some of the drama that's now set in motion for the rest of the day for the rest of the week. as a result of this, ben ginsburg floated a couple of possible snare knroecenarioscen. jacob was talking to one of the leaders of the free the vote delegate movement. they are going to have a meeting and go to plan b. she wouldn't specify what plan b would be. a couple possible scenarios playing out for the rest of the week if these delegates want to cause trouble at this convention. they could cause a contested vote. they could nominate somebody else for the vice presidential slot. donald trump has said that mike pence is his candidate. tradition at these conventions, republican and democratic conventions says the candidate anoints a vice presidential pick and the convention will ratify it. it's usually a voice vote. it's an act of unity traditionally. there's nothing in the rules that says it has to go that way. the choice of the vice presidential nomination for the republican party is ultimately a choice the delegates get to make. these delegates, if they want, they can cause trouble that way. another scenario floated by ben ginsberg is they could boycott the vote on donald trump as the presidential nominee. they could walk out of the hall. and how many delegates who are bound to donald trump, but are also at the same time anti-trump? these are people who want to be freed up. how many would walk up if that were the case. that could certainly cause headaches for them as well. two scenarios. let me bring in vin weber, former congressman from minnesota. he's been critical of donald trump. what do you make of what you're watching right now? >> it's the real fireworks of this convention it looks like. i thought for a long time donald trump has the majority of the delegates. he's going to be the nominee. i don't necessarily think it's wise of the trump people to want to crush the opposition like this. a former united states senator now with gordon humphrey out there throwing the word fascism around. a sitting united states senator mike lee very angry walking out of the convention. sometimes you're better off if you are in a position of strength allowing a vote to occur and letting people vent and using that as the opportunity to bring the party together. reince priebus is a good chairman and he's decided he's going to plow through. my guess is this is not going to be seen as the right move to unify the party to the maximum extent behind trump. for unity, we're talking not about 50% plus one. donald trump needs 90-plus percent of the republican vote. any faction that leaves here disgruntled is a potential threat to his election. >> we can throw this stat out for people, too. in the primaries and caucuses if you added all the votes cast up, donald trump got about 45% of all the votes cast up. >> not hearing you, steve. >> let's work on vin weber's audio. i'll tell the folks at home donald trump got about 45% of all the votes cast in the primaries and caucuses this year. obviously he had lots of opposition. this was the biggest republican field. that is the lowest share of the popular vote. in a primar and caucus season that any presumptive nominee has ever. john mccain was a touch high are. about 47%. every other nominee in the modern era of republican conventions and democratic conventions, every other nominee has gotten over 50%, usually well over 50% of the vote in the primaries and caucuses. that dissension on the flowor, the fact that there is such a large, clearly large, clearly vocal anti-trump contingent on the floor of this convention, that's something you see in the fact that more than half of the republicans and republican voters who went to the polls for primaries and caucuses this year, they did not cast a vote for donald trump. you are seeing the fruits of that right now. we have -- we're still working on vin weber there. we'll try to get back to him. chris matthews is standing by. krirks i i'm just thinking off the top of my head -- we don't have chris matthews. maybe folks at home can remember a scene like this. vin weber is back with us. vin weber, i'm trying to remember a scene like this at a political convention. we can go back in history, the civil rights era. goldwater in '64. that was chaotic. can you think of a scene like this in recent times? >> there was a certain amount of turmoil at the 1976 convention when gerald ford defeated ronald reagan. but it was pretty civil. you have to go back further than that to find really, really angry people. even if you go back to the civil rights walkouts in the democratic party, the 1950s, that's was over a big, huge philosophical issue. the issue of civil rights. so we haven't really seen anything over a candidate like this for a long, long time. and it's not, in my judgment food. i understand when you get into a convention in my state of minnesota, it's a convention state. you get into a convention and have a majority, there's always a tendency to want to wield that power. you got it. you pit as wemight as well use . your intuition sometimes fail you in the convention setting. you'd be better off allowing the opposition to express themselves and then trying to unify. >> let's remind people. the movement to have this recorded vote, the stop trump movement coming from, we are told, the following states. the district of columbia, minnesota, wyoming, iowa, utah, colorado, washington, maine, virginia. almost all of those states, the exception virginia and washington, who are not trump states during the primary and caucus seasons. chris matthews is now joining us. what do you pmake of what you'r watching. >> you're asking about history. going back to 1952, you had a huge fight on credentials between the eisenhower people who were the newcomers and the taft people who were the old line republicans. and there were a lot of delegations in the south which were a bit -- they were sort of shallow delegations. they weren't based upon the republicans really winning in the south. you have the solid south of the democratic party. they put together delegations and the eisenhower people challenged them. a big fairness resolution on credentials. and they defeated the taft people in what was a test vote. they went on to win the nomination. 1964 in the atlantic city boardwalk, the mississippi freedom delegation which basically knocked out the regular all white delegation from mississippi. a big credentials fight there. really made history. of course, the blacks won that one. a big victory for civil rights in the south. for people who wanted to end segregaugs. especially in party politics. we had big credential fights. >> chris matthews out there in cleveland, stand by. let's bring in chuck todd. we have chuck todd with us. obviously coming into this convention, the question here was how unified would the republican party emerge fromming this. we just went through the stats in the primary season. donald trump not getting 50% of the popular vote. we've seen polls that have him getting about 80% or so of republican support in the general election. you want to get that over 90%. what we've just watched in the last hour, how is that going to affect the question of unity going forward? >> let's not just talk about the last hour. how about the way the morning started. if this is the day and you want this convention to be about unifying the party, probably wasn't the best way to start the day to have the campaign chairman paul manafort go right at john kasich calling it embarrassing. there's this initial all day before the fight on the floor that we just saw. there was this under -- certainly the story of cleveland. at least here was this fight between the trump campaign and the governor of the home state in the convention. and then all of a sudden, this. so this has gotten off to a horrible start for the gop, if it was about unifying things today. between what we just saw, and they may regret. they have to figure out and this is what priebus has been struggling with. how do you open a steam valve here? they know they need to let this -- they didn't let these folks vent at all. there was such a shut down effort. it happened last week. and i think because of how quickly things got shut down last week, i think it may have added to the intensity of what we just saw. now the question is, do they go back n say, maybe we ought to let a little steam out of the valve? let's let this roll call happen. that's why they started today in the afternoon knowing that, worst case scenario, they might have to do it. keep it off of primetime. but sort of let the mess play out and then bring everybody back together. but when you don't let a dissent show their dissent, then it can actually make things boil over even more say tomorrow or wednesday. n that's not something they want. they'd like to keep everything about the disunity to this afternoon. >> we've been talking about where the push for this is coming from on the convention floor. the colorado delegation, colorado probably the single most anti-trump delegation of any state at this convention. the colorado delegation has walked out. you look at the list of the other states to join this fight on the rules. these are almost exclusively states that did not vote for donald trump in the republican primaries and caucuses. let's look now at a different state. the state of indiana. indiana is the state that donald trump won basically clearing the republican field back in may. one of his biggest vuct victori the primary. it is the home of mike pence, his choice to be his running mate. what's the temperature there, kelly? >> first of all, in case you aren't aware of this, there's a photo being taken of all the delegates. they are all looking toward a camera doing a sweep to get a picture that everyone can order later. that's why we're all standing here. i'm here with the deans of the indiana delegation. we have jeff cardwell who is the party chairman. gentlemen, mike pence is a new addition to the ticket. this happened after some of this anti-trump movement talked about a change in a vice presidential nominee in order to mix things up. what is your sense of what impact this has on governor pence and the ticket? >> he will balance the ticket. he'll bring something different to the ticket. he brings a lot of government leadership. donald trump has had exceptional success in the private sector creating tens of thousands of jobs. pence has had the same success in the government sector by creating 150,000 jobs in indiana alone. >> this move to try to mess with the process that we've been watching unfold today, and part of it includes trying to offer up a separate vp nominee. what is your reaction to that? >> once they get to know governor pence, that -- the healing process will begin. we need to introduce america to governor pence, karen pence and the family. n once the america knows the governor and his family, they'll fall in love with his leadership. >> you have seen a lot of things over the years. it's not unusual for a convention to sometimes get a little rowdy. what is your sense of how serious a threat this is? >> i've known mike pence for 25 years. he is the real deal. he's honest. he's a great -- a great leader. he was a great person in congress. i think he had 12 years in congress. he is totally qualified to be -- >> are you worried this could reflect poorly on him, this group? >> no, that's part of the deal. you know, you have to go out and give it -- the problem is we've got it. >> do you think this is putting a wrench in the idea of unity? donald trump said he picked governor pence for party unity. doesn't feel that united today. >> we're in the process. primaries are very difficult but you'll see us come out of this convention very united. we'll be behind donald trump. we'll be behind governor mike pence. governor mike pence is a natural leader. he's had a great successful record serving in congress and as our governor. i think you'll find that. i think america will fall in love with him. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> also, he voted for cruz. i think that he will appeal to all the cruz people. >> that could bring them along? >> indiana is proud they have a place on the gop ticket. they've been watching a lot of this unfold. as you heard from rex, many in the delegation have known governor pence for a long, long time. it's personal for them. steve? >> kelly o'donnell in the indiana delegation. we've been talking about how unprecedented this is in modern times. the only even reasonably close modern thing you have to go back 20 years. pat buchanan was denied a speaking spot in 1996. his delegates threatened to walk out. buchanan held a rival speech across town in san diego while that convention was going on. they didn't actually walk out. that may be the closest thing to what we've seen over the last moui think chris matthews is still joining us. let's talk about the strategy for the organizers of this convention. they chose the very heavy-handed route here. they wanted to shut this down as fast as they could, as absolutely as they could. what else could they have done? what else should they are done? >> somebody said you have to have a steam valve. we're going to see some of that. i'm going to tell you. compared to where they would have been had donald trump. >> selected one of the other two, chris christie or newt gingrich, i think you would see chaos at this point. bringing in pence is bringing in a regular republican, a life-long, well, a republican as long as he's been elected to public office, the governor of indiana. it's a very stabilizing move on the part of trump. i don't think he really wanted to do it, but he did it in order to bring party unity together. as he said the other night. it's a period of adjustment right now. think about it. republican parties are bound to nominate somebody who has not at all been, at all, active in politics. in any real sense. certainly not as a candidate ever before. he's just come in. and the only equivalent, i think, would be perhaps 1952 with eisenhower. before that the allied leader in western europe in the second world war. and before that probably wendall wilke, a democratic business guy. utilities executive who managed to win the nomination in 1940. these are cases where people came from outside the system. trump san outsider. he's trying to avoid tissue rejection to use an organic reference. he's coming into a foreign body. the republican party. we're seeing how that's going to work out. it's not going to work out simply. it's going to go on for a while. we're going to see a lot of this stuff. the fact they're able to squash this thing by having three of the state delegations withdraw, taking the toublmakers down to six which was one below the necessary number means they're winning. we'll see. it's not going to be neat. but it will be effective. chris matthews in cleveland. we've heard from some of the proponents of the stop trump movement here. let's bring in donald trump's first supporter in congress. congressman chris collins from western new york. he endorsed trump before anyone else. you've heard the reaction right now. ken cuccinelli says you guys cheated. one said this is fascism invoking the term brown shirts. what's your reaction? >> i'll go back and say these are some desperate, disgruntled romneyites doing what they can to throw a wrench in the works. it's not going to work because actually, what they've done is they're going to probably bring more exposurexposure, which is . people are going to tune in tonight and tomorrow night to see what else might happen. we want more americans hearing donald trump's story. hearing melania's story tonight. as we nominate and confirm donald trump tomorrow night. at this point, now they're talking about the vp candidate. it's desperation. it's not going to work. the party is uniting. so that's how i dismiss this. and say, you know, i'm a glass is half full guy. this could bring more attention to the speeches tonight. the nomination tomorrow. people thinking there might be something else going on. the more people that hear donald's message see his great family on television. the better for the trump candidacy as he moves in to november. >> you watched the same scene we just watched. the colorado delegation has walked out of the convention. former senator humphrey has said this is fascism. ken cuccinelli from the virginia delegation says this is cheating. you heard how loud and sustained those boos were. does that look like a party uniting? >> we're absolutely united but a few disgruntled romneyites can certainly be loud and boisterous. but donald trump's going to be our nominee. the party is going to become home. it's donald trump to make america great again and put america first or it's hillary clinton, the liar, the perjurer who would represent a third term of barack obama. so that binary choice has united our party. there's no question about it. this is a convention. it's noisy. donald trump is going to be our nominee. mike pence, governor mike pence will be our vice presidential candidate. we're going to roll out of this convention as united as ever. and we're going to beat and trounce hillary clinton in november. >> that's chris collins, congressman from new york. jacob soboroff with about a minute left. jacob rascon, excuse me. he's outside the convention. what do you have? >> what we're looking at is about 500 protesters who have marched about a mile and a half now. within a half mile or so of the convention center. we're talking about a dozen groups. i want you to notice the police presence that is around. mostly officers on bike here. a dozen groups including black lives matter. abortion rights groups. code pink. immigrants rights groups. the official name of the protest is end poverty now but they're marching toward the rnc to stop the hate of the gop and donald trump. this is about the biggest we've seen so far. they do not have a permit. this is not a sanctioned protest. they are not going along the parade route. but here they are. about 500 people marching now for almost an hour. and within a half mile of the convention center, steve. >> so we've got obviously the commotion we just watched inside the convention sister in cleveland and obviously some activity outside as well. a very, very busy hour we just had. quite an exciting start for lack of a better term there at this republican convention. a special edition of "mtp daily" with chuck todd live from cleveland starts right now. good evening. i'm chuck todd in cleveland. and cleveland is rocking. but for a reason that donald trump isn't happy about. the drama is on the convention floor. welcome to "mtp daily." first day of the republican convention. the rnc are frantically trying to quell a delicate uprising on the convention floor. moments ago, a group of anti-trump delegates appeared to have enough signatures to force a roll call vote

Brian Howey: The waxing and waning GOP power - The Republic News

Brian Howey: The waxing and waning GOP power

With the GOP nomination of U.S. Sen. Mike Braun for governor, we now settle in to watch the lame-duck Holcomb administration depart while the candidate begins to put the pieces

Brian Howey column: The waxing and waning GOP power

Democratic gubernatorial nominee Jennifer McCormick intends for her candidacy against Republican nominee Mike Braun and Libertarian Donald Rainwater to be an appeal for abortion rights between now and November.