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capitol hill after the news of louie gohmert's covid diagnosis. today was nuts and unnerving and dizzying. but the main story tonight is this. the president says things will get better, and then they get much worse. much, much, much worse. and then somehow on top of that he makes them worse still. just days after donald trump had been bragging about the u.s.'s low coronavirus fatalities, today over 1,500 americans died of the coronavirus, the highest total since all the way back on may 14th. more than 150,000 americans have died in total in the u.s. that means more than one in five coronavirus deaths in the world are here in this country. americans are dying of the virus at the rate of more than one per minute right now. and the president has been insisting we are on the cusp of an economic break-out, but things are getting worse right now. more than 1.4 million americans filed new unemployment claims this week. that is the second straight week the number has increased. today the u.s. economy posted its worst ever quarter. the gross domestic product or gdp, the broadest measure of goods and services produced in the u.s., down 9.5%. almost 35% annualized. look at that red line on the right. it makes every bad quarter ever before this look like a flip on the radar. on top of all that, today the president engaged in an active flagrant effort to undermine the legitimacy and outright sabotage the administration of free and fair elections in this country. he has been waging an assault on the foundational cornerstone of american liberty, the free exercise of the franchise for a while now. but today, the president just came out and threatened to postpone the election. here's what he said at the white house briefing earlier this evening. >> and i don't want to see an election, you know, so many years i have been watching elections, and they say the projected winner or the winner of the election. i don't want to see that take place in a week after november 3rd or a month or frankly with litigation and everything else that would happen years, years or you never even know who won the election. >> you got what that was, right? that's a threat. that's i'm going to try to do that. i'm going to try to postpone it by a week or months or years or you never know who won. and all of that happening on the very day that congressman john lewis, a patron saint of the movement to establish those ideals of genuine democracy in this country so that every american can exercise those rights and vote freely that that man was laid to rest in atlanta, georgia. now, the president can't postpone the election. a bunch of republicans were chased around capitol hill where half of them say they have not seen the tweet and others including mitch mcconnell and congresswoman liz cheney said, no, no, we're going to have the election as usual. it is worth remembering at this point that donald trump already won the presidency as a candidate, right? as the beneficiary of not one but two separate criminal conspiracies on his behalf. that is a fact, a true statement about the world. one was by the russian government to damage his opponent. the other criminal conspiracy was by his hench men. so donald trump already has experience in cheating to win. but now donald trump has the federal government to help him cheat. and we have been covering on this show night in and night out how his hand picked postmaster general appears to be intentionally slowing down the mail ahead of an election that will almost turn on mail-in ballo ballots. the president is sending federal forces to intimidate and attack and round up american protesters. he's having people tear gassed and beaten for cheap photo ops. now the question of what the law allows becomes less important of what, the citizens, will allow. what will we do to stop him when the time comes? it is for that reason the legacy of john lewis cannot be more powerful and poignant today. because the right to participate in american democracy was delivered by people like john lewis, putting their bodies in the street and their lives on the line. and that point was made today in a masterful and moving eulogy from former president barack obama. >> and some day when we do finish that long journey towards freedom, when we do form a more perfect union, whether it's years from now or decades or even if it takes another two centuries, john lewis will be a founding father of that fuller, fairer, better america. [ applause ] >> i mean, american democracy is young, only decades old. it only became a democracy, a true democracy because of young john lewis and his come raids ready to face the batons and fire hoses and the death threats and the terroristic violence. that's how recent and fresh and young actual democracy in this country is. and the threats to it now are as great as they have probably been in our lifetime. as former president obama pointed out. >> we may no longer have to guess the number of jelly beans in a jar in order to cast a ball ballot. but even as we sit here, there are those in power who are doing their darnest to discourage people from voting by closing polling locations and targeting minorities and students with restrictive id laws and attacking our voting rights with surgical precision even undermining the postal service in the run-up to an election that's going to be dependent on mail-in ballots so people don't get sick. >> ultimately the only real protection for american democracy is the active work of the people in the streets. people refusing to allow their rights to be taken away. it was true for congressman john lewis and it's true now. and the people in the streets right now are why president trump is so scared. it is why he's sending armed men to get rid of them and why he's trying to make sure your vote doesn't count. for more, i'm joined by the staffer of the new york times magazine focussing on racial justice. she won the pulitzer prize earlier this year. and steve schmidt, co-founder of the the lincoln project. nicole, let me start with you. today the president talking about delaying an election you know, he tweets a lot of stuff and there seemed a red line crossing, particularly in the sense of him threatening this on the day that america is mourning the icon of the voting rights act and americans equal access to the franchise. >> yes. i think it speaks to how dangerous and serious this is, that the cofunder of the federalist society actually came out against donald trump and said that that tweet was an impeachable offense. we need to think about the words of john lewis, who had his final words printed in "the new york times" today. and he said democracy is not a state. it is an act. and of course president obama echoed that when he said democracy is not automatic. if we didn't understand that before, we certainly should understand that today, that we, the citizens, are clearly going to have to fight to save this democracy. >> you know, steve, piggybacking off what nicole just said, you know, through much of the time of the president being in power, there has been these questions of what institutions will check him. in some ways the courts have. and there has been ways in which congress has checked him as well. but i'm increasingly hearing people articulate that there is no like superman out there and there is no just like institution granted down from heaven that says like, it all works out. it basically is just us. like our citizens, our people in the republican party, our citizens in the streets, part of the black lives movement and others, are they willing to say, no, we're going to fight for american democracy? that's going to be the question. >> it was pointed out, chris, that freedom is always one generation away from being extinguished and we're reminded of that admonition tonight. we are at a very dangerous hour in this country. never before in our history has an american president ever suggested stopping an election for the purposes of maintaining power because if the election were tomorrow he would be crushed in the election and increasingly there is very little way in terms of strategy for trump to win the election. what he's attempting to do is to sew chaos, sew doubt, question the legitimacy of the democratic process, getting in position to try to steal the election. he is an ill liberal man, and this is an autocratic moment, and we should understand it as such. but in the end, it is not donald trump's right to bestow upon or take away the voting franchise. that franchise has been paved with the blood of american martyrs. and it is our inheritance, all of ours. >> yeah. >> john lewis said that we all came here in different boats. we all came here in different ships. but we're in the same boat now. and the reality of it is this. from lexington and concord to gettysburg to john lewis, we will vote in this country. we tell the government what to do, not the other way around. this is the united states of america, not trumpistan. and the american people are the last check on this most illiberal man. so there was a question that more robustly debated in the 1970s and '80s than it was in the '90s and the early years of this century, and it was contemplating a fascistic project. could that happen in america? could there be an authoritarian movement that could come to power in the united states? and the answer was always no. the high watermark for that was the german-american in 1938 selling out madison square garden. but the question of could it happen here, it is happening here. when the president of the united states dispatches and threatens to tens of thousands of armed storm troopers lacking badges and ids, shoving people into white vans, slowing the mail down, which is a federal crime to influence the outcome of an election, dividing the american people, questioning the legitimacy of the election, suggesting that he will not accept the results of the election, talking about suspending the election and have no doubt if donald trump could stop this election from going forward for the purposes of remaining in power for the rest of his life like the man he admires like president xi, like president putin, he would do so. and anyone that thinks he wouldn't is profoundly naive and not attentive to the moment that we're in. >> to the point about can it happen here, nicole, when i was thinking about john lewis, what john lewis stared down was the closest thing we had to fascism in the u.s. it was not a free democracy. it is the closest thing we've had. then i thought about him today because i was watching the eyes on the prize on salma recently. when they go to register there, they get told, the clerk's office is only open for a few hours. even then, even the racist white sheriff down there isn't saying we don't want black people to vote. no, no, it is an administrative thing. i thought about that when i saw the president talk about all the administrative problems with the mail-in voting. it is the oldest excuse. >> yeah. so no one in this country knows how fragile our democracy is than black americans because black americans have had to fight for centuries to actually take part in our democracy. black americans have always been the canary in the coal mine. as we have seen, this wave of voter suppression bills targeting black americans and other americans stood by and watched that happen, black people have always said, what you allow to happen to us can eventually be done to you. and now the entire country has to worry about voter suppression. now the entire country has to worry that their vote will not count. >> that's a great point. >> the 15th amendment made it unconstitutional to discrimination and deny someone the right to vote because of their race. and as soon as that constitutional amendment was passed, conservatives have found a way, race neutral ways to deny the vote. this is what the grandfather clauses were. this is what the jelly bean counts were, and this is what we're seeing with these different voter suppression tactics like closing polls and now this threat of denying mail by ballot. so we have allowed and not passed a new voting rights bill. we have allowed those more marginalized to phrase diseven franchisement and american citizens have to decide, are we going to save our democracy or not? >> final question to you, steve, is about this question of sort of when the chips are down, right? and it feels like the chips are down now. and we saw mattis come out after the lafayette square moment, which i thought was important. we have got republican leaders basically saying in a kind of, you know, nonconfrontational way like we're going to have the election. but it is going to matter what people yielding power throughout the republican party and in the military, the courts, all of these people operating in those institutions, their conscious and what they're willing to do when the moment matters is going to matter a lot. >> the majority of this country shares this position. we're not going back to salma 1963. we're going forward. and freedom means freedom for everybody in this country. one of the most powerful ideas in the history of the world that represented a before and after moment were the words that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with even alienable rights including life, liberty and happiness. the whole history of the country has been the struggle to close the gap between that perfect ideal and the reality, the flawed reality, the original sin of slavery. we're not going back. and i think the american people will rise up in righteous anger at threats to our liberty, to our sovereignty and will not stand for this. we will not. and in the end, when you think about john lewis on that day crossing the edmond pettus bridge, he took a first step. and then he took a second and a third and a fourth and a fifth, and he drew closer. he drew closer to the men with the clubs and the dogs. he drew closer to the men who would attack and beat him, and he did it fearlessly, fearlessly. no nobody is asking anybody here in the congress to storm omaha beach. nobody is asking anybody -- >> right. >> -- to do what john lewis did. but the american people are called on now to do is to honor the legacy of great sacrifice and to demand pristine, free, fair elections that are accessible to everybody. and when this rancid administration is turned out from office, the very first thing that president biden has to do is we must in this country pass a voting rights act, a civil rights act and an election security act to secure our elections so we don't ever have to deal with this again because it is awful. and it is un-american. >> voting rights act day one. john lewis voting rights act. i think president barack obama suggested today. nicole and steve, it is a great pleasure to get to talk to you on this momentum day. thanks a lot. >> thank you, chris. ahead, not only did barack obama deliver a stirring defense of democracy in his eulogy for nonlewis, he made some big news in his speech. we'll show you what happened next. you what happened next at the golden opportunity sales event. in his speech. we'll show you what happened next. lewis, he made some big ne his speech. we'll show you what happened next. jo lewis, he made some bis in his speech. we'll show you what happened next. h lewis, he made some big news in his speech. we'll show you what happened next. n lewis, he made some big news in his speech. we'll show you what happened next. lewis, he made some big news in his speech. we'll show you what happened next. next no matter how far away. anything to report? (kevin) nothing. (brad) exactly like the last nine hundred eighty-three days. apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place. today at the funeral for john lewis, former president barack obama delivered the eulogy. obama articulated a full vision of enlarging, enhancing and strengthening american democracy by delivering a call for action. you want to honor john? let's honor him by revitalizing the law that he was willing to die for. and by the way, naming it the john lewis voting rights act, that is a fine tribute. once we pass the john lewis voting rights act, we should keep marching to make it even better. by making sure every american is automatically registered to vote, including former inmates who have earned their second chance. by adding polling places and expanding early voting and making election day a national holiday so if you are somebody who is working in a factory or you're a single mom who's got to go to her job and doesn't get time off, you can still cast your ballot by guaranteeing that every american citizen has equal representation in our government, including the american citizens who live in washington, d.c. and in puerto rico. they're americans. by ending some of the partisan gerrymandering so that all voters have the power to choose their politicians, not the other way around. and if all this takes eliminating the filibuster, another jim crow relic in order to secure the god given rights of every american, then that's what we should do. >> wow. that is a full sweep of a kind of small democratic politics increasingly pushed by members of the democratic party. today, a full throated endorsement. in some ways, this was the obama speech in the trump era that so many have been waiting for. there to hear it live is a democrat of colorado. congressman, it is great to have you. i'm jealous you were able to be there today. what is it like to be in that room? >> it was incredibly moving. today was obviously a very tough day for our entire country. there certainly was not a dry eye in the church, in atlanta. and i suspect that that's the case in a lot of homes across our country and indeed the world as we mourned a living legend, a true american hero, mr. lewis, a deep friend and colleague to so many here in the united states congress. and i was certainly honored to be able to have the privilege and opportunity to pay my respects with speaker pelosi and the congressional delegation and to hear the powerful eulogies that were delivered. one by president obama who was as elegant as always, but today spoke truth to power in such a resounding way that i suspect his message echoed across a lot of family rooms across the united states tonight. >> yeah. i want to play something he said about the lewis' recognition about how important democracy is and how it is not a given and the degree to which it does feel now that this election turns on something that existential, that important. are we democracy or not? >> john lewis devoted his time on this earth fighting the very attacks on democracy. and what's best in america that we're seeing circulate right now. we knew that every single one of us has a god given power and that the fate of this democracy depends on how we use it. >> i want to ask you this, congressman. ky never tell. you are a young professional politician. you are fairly knew to this. you are a freshman. but whether the people in capitol hill, the people in your caucus recognize the stakes right now, like at a visceral daily lived level understand what is on the table right now for this country. >> i certainly think so, chris. i think the word that you used existential is the right word and i certainly think my colleagues recognize that. and i think the american people recognize it and if they didn't, they certainly do after listening to president obama's remarks earlier today. there are many of us in congress inspired to pursue public service by president obama, myself included. and to hear him describe how high the stakes are in this particular election and the fact that it really is all on the line, our ability to continue to function as a republic, to live up to the ideals in those founding documents, the constitution and declaration of independence. it is all on the table this november. so i think that that message was delivered really effectively today by the president. as i said, i don't think it's lost on members of congress how high the stakes are. and i certainly hope it's not lost on the american people. >> speaking of the steakes, ten of millions of americans will lose $600 a week starting this friday. that's essentially already baked into the cake because the state programs won't be up in time. mitch mcconnell sent them home for a recess. there are people facing eviction. four days straight with no outcome for a relief bill. what is your understanding of where things stand right now? >> first let me just say it is unconscionable what the senate republicans have brought us to this point after the house had taken decisive action as you know back in may to pass the heroes act to provide the economic lifeline to americans across our country who are struggling right now to be able to make ends meet as a result of the public health emergency and obviously the economic fall-out that's been a byproduct of the covid-19 pandemic. and the fact that mitch mckonld and the republicans failed to about and provide a sensible negotiating position, it really is dumbfounding, and it's incredibly problematic obviously for a lot of americans, including many of my constituents. i can't tell you how many constituents of ours are calling us in desperate, desperate situations, understanding that these unemployment benefits, the pandemic unemployment differential is set to expire in 24 hours. it is unconscionable and should not be tolerated by the american people. we put forward a proposal that i thought would make a great deal of difference for americans in the heroes act and i'm hopeful that mitch mcconnell will concede to reality, that there is a large portion of his caucus that clearly does not want to provide any economic relief to americans and instead he should negotiate in good faith with the speaker and the house majority and the democratic caucus to get something done. >> i mean, from your lips to god's ears, we'll see what happens. thank you so much for making time tonight. >> thank you, chris. still to come, the president escalates his attacks. ari berman is here to debunk the lies and what this election could and should look like ahead. ction could and should look like ahead. in a highly capable lexus suv at the golden opportunity sales event. lease the 2020 nx 300 for $339 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. experience amazing when you think of a bank, you think of people in a place. but when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. so, when you get a check... you can deposit it from here. and you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. you can detect suspicious activity on your account from here. and you can pay your friends back from here. so when someone asks you, "where's your bank?" you can tell them: here's my bank. or here's my bank. or, here's my bank. because if you download and use the chase mobile app, your bank is virtually any place. so visit chase.com/mobile. because we are in the midst of a once in a century pandemic, november is going to be a mail-in election. and that is why donald trump appears to be attacking mail-in voting. in fact, donald trump has been waging this wartime and time again, week after week on twitter, today escalating as well. but it is important to understand that there are basically two aspects to what's going on here. he says mail-in voting is rife with fraud. that's not true. it is incredibly administratively difficult. we will see volumes the likes of which we have never seen. there is some evidence, in fact, that a lot of people who give in legitimate mail-in ballots have them discounted because they forgot to sign in the right place. my wife and i both voted recently in an election mail-in ballot in new york and we had to check it three or four times. all of that creates the conditions for donald trump to take advantage of those actual problems by trying to fight against mail-in ballots. here to clarify exactly what we could do to make sure this election is run as smoothly as possible is my friend and great reporter on this topic, the number one expert, a rrks irkrif mother jones. >> hey, chris. thanks so much for having me. >> so i want to talk about these two categories because donald trump conflated the two. like the odds of someone cheating or systemic fraud from a mail-in ballot is zero. the odds of local officials being able to process them, send them out in time, get them through the mail in time and count them in time, those are real. talk about those two distinct issues. >> yeah. that's absolutely right. mail-in ballot fraud is very unlikely. they did a study and found only 143 cases of mail ballot fraud over the past 20 years which equalled out to 0.0006% of total ballots cast. the problem is that the system could become overwhelmed, that people might not get mail ballots that they requested, that they might be sent back in time, that the post office is facing this unprecedented threat you have covered on their show that they might not be able to handle the volume and election officials might not be able to count them in a proper and timely fashion. that's why we should be making it easier to vote by mail, not harder. but the trump administration is waging this unprecedented campaign to make it more difficult, which would increase the risk that ballots will be thrown out in november. >> right. i want people to understand this just in how insidious it is, right? the idea is to make it harder to exacerbate problems so that you could then turn around and point to the problems and cast the legitimacy in question. so if election night comes and we have to count a bunch of ballots and it makes a bunch of days, that's where the lawsuits or the president railing against election, that's where the rubber hits the road. >> exactly. and trump is saying, all of these mail ballots are going to be thrown out. they will be thrown out because the trump administration in every single swing state is litigating to make it harder to vote by mail. so they're saying that your ballot has to arrive by election day instead of being postmarked by election day or they're saying ballots should be thrown out for things like mismatched signatures or election officials shouldn't be able to contact you. in pennsylvania they have gone as far as to say you shouldn't be able to drop your ballot off at drop boxes, which is the craziest thing i have heard. so trump is creating the conditions for mail voting to fail. >> wait a second. one of the things i have heard is that if your state allows you to drop off your absentee ballot, go do that. you are saying the trump administration is suing pennsylvania who don't want you to be able to drop it off in a drop box? >> no. the trump administration is suing in pennsylvania no not allow you to drop your ballot off. >> what! >> claiming that it will somehow be rife with fraud. the misnomer about vote by mail is that everyone puts it through the mail. well, in oregon, actually, a lot of people drop their ballot off. one thing election officials are telling you is request your ballot early and drop it off if possible like they have in oregon and colorado to put less stress on the post office at the time when trump is doing everything he can to destroy the post office at a time they're needed more than ever. >> there are certain things outside of our control that will depend on mobilization and lawyers. but there are certain things that are important for people to understand for themselves. the vast majority of states have no excuse absentee ballots right now. there are holdouts there. and there is this idea i thought of flatten the curve. it is based on the flatten the curve we saw with the pandemic, which is flatten the ballot curve. if everyone waits until the last minute to apply for a mail-in absentee ballot, you will overwhelm the logical capacity of your local election administrators. but if people start doing it now and you space it out over time, it will be a smoother operation. does that make sense? >> yeah. that's absolutely right. first off, you are correct. in more than 40 states you can vote by mail for any reason, which includes every important swing state in the country. so vote by mail is set up to work in all of those states. but you're right. you have to request your ballot early. you have to return it early. the postal service is saying do it before the election. fill it out carefully. make sure you sign your ballot. make sure you sign it clearly. drop it off if possible. if people are proactive and careful about vote by mail, if states invest in the resources, we will have a smooth election. if we don't do all of those things, there is a major problem. >> yeah. the major problem, that is the risk here, the thing to be battled against, not fraud. but disenfranchisement is the end result the president is trying to bring about through this form. ari berman who has been righting about voting rights for years and one of the best reporters on this beat, thanks a lot. >> thanks so much, chris. i appreciate it. >> still to come, the fall-out from louie gohmert's covid diagnosis. diagnosis. this year, the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's is everywhere. all of us are raising funds for one goal: a world without alzheimer's and all other dementia. because this disease isn't waiting, neither are you. go to alz dot org slash walk. ♪ new fixodent ultra dual power provides you with an unbeatable hold and strong seal against food infiltrations. fixodent. and forget it. it's not just a sandwich, far from it. it's a reason to come together. it's a taste of something good. a taste we all could use right now. so let's make the most of it. and make every sandwich count. with oscar mayer deli fresh multiple states reported record new coronavirus fatalities yet again today. florida reporting a record increase for the third day in a row with over 250 new deaths in just the last 24 hours. texas reported a record increase for the second day in a row, reporting more than 320 new fatalities. arizona reported more than 170 new fatalities today, also a record high, bringing the state's total above 3,600. nationwide fatalities are now rising in tandem with cases on a lag as basically everyone feared. the people who lost their lives today is someone you are probably familiar with. former republican presidential candidate herman cain. cain has led an amazing story. he grew up in the south. he worked his way up in the food and restaurant industry, becoming chairman and ceo of godfather pizza chin and then the president of the national restaurant association. in 2011, he ran for the republican nomination for president, even having a kind of trump-esque viral moment there where he was topping the polls for several weeks. he dropped out of the race after allegations of sexual misconduct came to light. cain became a big supporter of candidate donald trump and then became a campaign surrogate. this is the last picture we have of herman cain in public, attending the president's rally in tulsa, oklahoma on june 20th. public health officials, you might remember, desperately did not want the president to hold that rally, crowded, indoors. herman cain tested positive nine days after the rally. he spent nearly a month in the hospital. while he was in the hospital, his staff appears to have been tweeting from his account. yesterday they posted an article expressing skepticism about a future coronavirus vaccine. just yesterday they posted this on his facebook page making fun of congressman nadler and his mask. the president tweeted his condolences to cain. there is now a genuine public safety concern about how republicans in the administration and in congress are just treating their own staffs as they have been reportedly forcing employees back into the workplace in unsafe conditions to show america that they should be doing the same. "politic "politico"'s jake sherman has been reporting on all that. h e has heard it including from senior officials and he will join us next. join us next they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? no you were talking about allstate and insurance. i just... when i... let's try again. everybody back to one. accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. i'm asymptomatic. i don't have any of the symptoms that are listed as part of covid-19, but apparently, i have the wuhan virus. now that i apparently have it, i will be very, very careful to make sure i don't give it to anybody else. >> right now, texas congressman louie gohmert says he's quarantining himself after testing positive with coronavirus. he was tested yesterday because he was going to meet with the president. that's how he found out. one day after attending a house judiciary meeting with the attorney general, where gohmert openly flouted mask rules. and when politico writer jake sherman first broke the news about gohmert's diagnosis, he got a letter from someone in the congressman's office saying, "jake, thank you for letting our office know louie tested positive for the coronavirus. when you write your story, can you include the fact that louie requires full staff to be in the office, including three interns, so that we can be an example to america on how to open up safely? when probing the office, you might want to ask how often people were berated for wearing masks." so, jake took to twitter, asking any republican staffer who was forced to come to work without a mask to get in touch with him, and did they ever. administration aides and senior officials reached out, saying they feel they can't work safely during the pandemic, but that they, too, are being told not to wear masks. jake sherman, senior writer at politico, co-author of "playbook" joins me now. what have you been hearing, jake, from the folks who reached out to you after you sort of put out this call? >> a few things, chris. number one, across the capitol, we know, not from sources, because we see it with our own eyes because we work in the capitol as reporters, congressional reporters, that republican members of congress don't wear masks as frequently as democratic members. not a partisan statement. it's a statement of reality. i've gotten emails from across the capitol, people with co-morbidities, pre-existing conditions, and other words, that are heavily encouraged, let's say, to go into the office during this pandemic, and who are chided for wearing masks. you just had before our addition of "playbook pm," our afternoon edition this afternoon, where we talked about robert lighthizer, the u.s. trade representative, also a republican in the president's administration, who's traveling back and forth to palm beach, not wearing masks in the office, and his staff feels like they need to come in. it might not be said directly, but that's the feeling they get. and chris, here's the important point to keep in mind. in washington, you get jobs based on your previous job. it's not always a meritocracy, or maybe it's a certain kind of meritocracy. but if you don't have someone vouching for you, you're not going to get a job. so you're incentivized, heavily incentivized to listen to your boss, even if they're not telling you something that's not in your interests, but it is in their interest. >> i mean, what's so striking about this to me, you know, we have noted that fox news, for instance, has a bunch of hosts who like to go on and talk about how the virus is not as bad as the flu, yada, yada, but that they're all broadcasting remotely, and fox news puts out hr memos saying, don't come into the office, and there's a certain kind of obvious hypocrisy there. in this case, it's not hypocrisy. i mean, louie gohmert is living his values, i guess, in forcing his officemates and the people that work for him to do it. but it makes me think that they, like, really don't think all the science is true, that they have really bought into this idea that this is all a hoax, which to me is maybe more unnerving? >> yeah, they have. i mean, many of them do not believe that masks -- i mean, louie gohmert said he got the coronavirus when he started wearing a mask. this isn't a vague proposition. he has said this directly. and it flies in the face of everything we know about this virus, and he's not a scientist. he's a lawyer and a member of congress, but he's not a scientist. so, he has no idea how the virus spreads and he has no clue, and he's putting people's lives at risk. but i'll be honest with you, chris, both parties have a little bit of, i don't want to say blood on their hands, but dirt on their hands, because nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell have decided to not test members of congress. it's the most absurd thing i have seen in my 11 years covering congress, that they're forcing members of congress to come back to the capitol and to fly in from all across the country, and they're refusing, because they consider it to be bad optics -- they're refusing to test members of congress, just like you're tested at the white house. i've been to the white house many times. you get a quick nose swab. 15 minutes later, you find out if you're positive or negative. that's how mr. gohmert found out. the capitol could adopt those practices. the administration has said, we will give you the machines. we have them. they've said, no, it's not a sustainable position. we're not supposed to take positions in my side of the business, chris, but i'm taking this position here because i have to go to the capitol every day, and it's dangerous for my family and it's dangerous for other workers' families that they are not getting tested. we're around people who are not getting tested all the time. >> you know, i wanted to follow up on this, because it's so striking to me that, a, gohmert only finds out because he's going to go to the president, right? so, you've got to sort of play out -- and he says he's asymptomatic and may continue to be. that is something that happens. people have asymptomatic cases and can still transmit. so, you've got to play out -- if he never was going to go -- trump's not going to texas, gohmert's not going it go to him, he doesn't get tested. so then it's just another week or two where he's in the office unmasked, indoors with the interns, just hanging ao ining them, a. b, my next thought is, gohmert got tested, but all the people who worked for him, you can't get results for seven or eight days. what are the people in the office supposed to do now? what are the reporters covering louie gohmert for the last few days supposed to do? >> not only that, but mark meadows made the case, in a conversation we had with him in the capitol, he's for testing members of congress and says it's a continuity of government issue, and it really is. louie gohmert would have been on the floor without a mask. how do we know that? because i've seen him not wear a mask for a long time on the house floor. he would have infected his staff and he would have infected many members of congress. and again, in the district of columbia, you could get your test back in a day or two. you could get them back -- my colleague, sue davis, who's at npr, said it took her -- she tweeted today -- 28 days to get results from d.c. government testing. that's absurd! i mean, if that's what his staff has to now go do in the district of columbia, it's dangerous. it's dangerous for all of us who are in the capitol. >> yeah. really, we should say, the senate sergeant-at-arms also sent an email on tuesday reminding staffers they didn't need to wear masks, that it was a sort of mayoral decree, but because they're federal employees, they're exempt from the requirement while on duty. that doesn't seem to me like a particularly good idea. there are so many people that work in that workplace. and to me, it's a microcosm of why the charts comparatively between this country and other places look the way they do. jake sherman, who has been doing great reporting on this on capitol hill, thank you, and stay safe. >> thanks, chris. that is "all in" on this thursday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now with ali velshi in for rachel. good evening, ali. >> good evening, chris. have a fantastic evening and thank you at home for joining us this hour. it's a rare event that brings out three former presidents in one place at one time, and especially during a global pandemic, but some events are just that important. the funeral today for congressman john lewis was such an event. john lewis represented atlanta in congress for over 30 years, and he was laid to rest there today. hundreds of mourners gathered at ebenezer baptist church in atlanta to pay their last respects. presidents george w. bush and bill clinton made remarks. president obama delivered the eulogy. and it was a eulogy really worth hearing. we're going to play you some of it here in just a moment. there's a lot more to get to tonight. businessman and former presidential candidate herman cain has died.
New-yorkUnited-statesGeorgiaTexasWashingtonAtlantaFloridaWhitehouseDistrict-of-columbiaOregonGermanyArizona sons of history and our relationship with vladimir putin. >> dine feinstein joins me to explain the scope of the first congressional probe into these allegations. >> and with the fbi's e-mail investigation under investigation itself, democrats go public with their anger against james koemy. >> the fbi director has no credibility. >> joining me is rich lawrie of the national review, he lean cooper, jeffrey goldberg of the atlantic and daniel pletka of the american enterprise constitute. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good nday morning on this martin luther king jr. weekend anth last sunday of the obama presidency. even before john lewis's explosive statements denying donald trump's legacy of president, monday president-elect trump in effect challenged decades old laws against nep tich by hiring his son-in-law. embarrassing but unverified accounts of donald trump's accounts are published by buzzfeed. thursday, the justice department's inspector general announces a review of how james comey handled the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and lewis doesn't consider donald trump to be a legitimate president. i'll talk to reince priebus. but with john lewis's comments making headlines all weekend, we will begin with part one of my interview. >> you have forged relationships with many presidents. do you plan on trying to forge a relationship with donald trump? >> no. i believe in forgiveness. i believe in trying to work with people. it's going to be hard. it's going to be very difficult. i don't see this president-elect as a legitimate president. >> you do not consider him a legitimate president? why is that? >> i think the russians participated in helping this man get elected. and they helped destroy the candidacy of hillary clinton. i don't plan to intend inauguration. it will be the first one that i have missed since i have been in the congress. you cannot be at home with something th you feel that is wrong. >> that's going to send a big message to a lot of people in this country, that you don't believe he's a legitimate president. >> i think there was a conspiracy on the part of the russians and others that help him get elected. that's not right. that's not fair. that's not the open democratic process. >> you're a man of action. you have been your whole life. you believe that this president is not legitimate. what would you tell young folks, young activists to do? >> i would say to young people and i continue to say today and i am going to say it during the next few days as we sell rate and commemorate the birthday of martin luther king jr., when you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, you have an obligation to do something. you cannot afford to be quiet or to be silent. >> so what should be done? what should nancy pelosi? what should barack obama do? >> we must not be silent. >> do you think the president has been too silent? >> no, but those of us in position, we have to go out there and make some noise. we've got to organize. >> that is a powerful thing to say coming from you, that you do not believe he is a legitimatety elected president. what should be done? >> we have to continue to work and continue to speak up and speak out. >> how do you accept working with him under any circumstance. >> it is going to be very hard and very difficult, almost impossible for me to work with him. >> we'll have more of that interview with congressman lewis later in the program, including whether he would ever invite naldrump to selma? not surprisingly lewis's comments drew some strong reaction from both sides of the while and multiple responses from the man he criticized. >> a day after congressman lewis told me he doesn't believe trump is a legitimately elected president, donald trump responded. >> he should respond more time on fixing his district. not to mention crime infested rather than falsely complaining about the election results. all talk, talk, talk, no action or results. sad. then late last night after many pointed out lewis's atlanta district is solidly middle class, trump tweeted again. congressman john lewis should finally focus on the burning and crime infested inner cities of the u.s. i could use all the help i could get. with five days to go, a new debate about trump's legacy, putting republicans on the defensive. >> i think he will in time feel he used his words poorly. >> and initially dividing democrats. >> john lewis is right on target in terms of how this president-elect was elected. >> i just don't want to see this constant churning that leads to a kind of refleckive reaction every time a president gets elected who we don't light. >> but trump's eagerness to start a fight with a civil fights activist starts battles. including on the day the obama administration announced sanctions retaliating against russia for its interference on the election. >> on the very eve of the sanctions, was it right to have that conversation? >> now, trump tells the wall street journal, he would be open to lifting sanctions on russia in the future. quote, if you get along and if russia is really helping us, why would anybody have sanctions if somebody is doing some really great things. but three senators in his own party disagree with him, and that disagreement dominated hearings this week. >> do you believe that vad mir putin and his cronies are responsible for ordering the murder of countless journalists and political opponents. >> i do not have sufficient information to make that claim. >> none of this is classified, mr. tiller son. these people are dead. >> do you believe the russians have hacked into our election. >> i have done no research into that. >> do you think you could get briefed any time soon. >> i'll need to. >> russia has invaded cry team and crimea. intervened in syria, leaving a trail of death and distrux. >> joining me now is incoming chief of staff, reince priebus. welcome back to e program, sir. >> thank you, chuck. lete start with something congressman amash tweeted. simply, dude, just stop. let me ask you this. did the president-elect contemplate reaching out to congressman lewis privately before tweeting? >> look, here's the thing. i think that, chuck, it's shocking that congressman lewis, who is a civil rights icon and is a person who's championed voting rights would start this firestorm. the truth is donald trump won 30 of 50 counties. he won about 128 out of the 159 counties in georgia. he flipped 200 counties that obama won and had the biggest electoral landslide on our side of the aisle since reagan. it is irresponsible for john lewis to have done this. and the other piece of this, chuck, is that barack obama should step up as well and call it what it is. it's wrong what is happening. it's wrong how some of these democrats are treating president-elect trump. we have a great relationship with the white house. i talk to den mismcdnis mcdonna day. the transfer of power within the white house is going great. but to do this to president-elect trump five days before he puts his hands on the bible is just wrong. by the way, the democrats are fund-raising on this comment from congressman lewis right now. so they're making money on it. >> let me ask you this because one of the things that congressn lewis says that he ll never forget and possibly never forgive is when donald trump said that vladimir putin was a stronger leader than president obama. and there will be people that respond to your comments right now and say donald trump spent five years questioning the legacy of barack obama's constitutional viability to be president of the united states with the birther controversy. do you understand why there are going to be some who look at your criticism of john lewis and say, that's hypocritical coming from somebody that works for donald trump. >> so first of all, the president-elect never said that vladimir putin was a better person. he didn't say that -- >> i said stronger leader. >> hang on. let me finish. >> my question to you was stronger leader. that's what i quoted. >> i get it. it wasn't he's a better person, i would rather have him as president of the united states. it was that characteristics of leadership can be parsed and compared. and characteristic qualities can be a lot of things. that's what he was talking about, but certainly wouldn't prefer vladimir putin over barack obama as president of the united states. that's ridiculous. to take an old argument about where the president was born has nothing to do with whether or not in a democracy in the united states whether donald trump won the election and whether it was legitimate. james clapper of the intelligence community, i don ow if jo lewis knows more than they do, but they have concluded there is no evidence that anything was done in the course of this election by russians or whoever changed the course of this election. in fact, the only evidence there is of tampering and having a real connection to foreign leadership was the dnc paying an operative over $400,000 to meddle in the ukraine to dig up dirt on donald trump. no one is talking about the $400,000 that the dnc spent digging up dirt with an operative in the ukraine. there is nothing here in regard to this issue in russia and all of the defense intelligence agencies have concluded that. >> when you say there is nothing here, there is -- >> i mean evidence that changed the outcome of the election. >> you're talking about -- you're not disputing that there is a lot of evidence of russia's attempts to interfere in the election? >> i'm not disputing that the russian entities hacked the dnc. but i am -- i'm not going to back to our interview of a few weeks ago. i am also going to say when you don't have any defenses on your computer system and you hand over 50,000 e-mails, obviously that makes it a whole lot easier. and i think that the clinton folks wasted a billion dollars of their donors money and they have a lot to answer for and none of this would be happening if hillary clinton didn't use a server in violation of federal law. >> does that excuse a foreign government from attemptin to interfere in the united states election? >> of course not. all of its wrong. china is wrong. russia is wrong. iran is wrong. all of these entities are wrong for doing what they have done. but back to john lewis, for him then to say, which no intelligence official is saying, that donald trump was elected illegitimately is irresponsible. and just because he's a civil rights leader and someone that i respect as a civil rights leader and someone that i went to selma with him and many others a few years ago. >> yes, you did. >> it doesn't excuse the fact that his statement was not responsible and it's not right and it is too bad because president-elect trump is going to be a great president and this country elected him in an electoral landslide, and it is a shame. it is really a shame that five days from now he's being sworn in and we're talking about this. >> the issue has to do with russia and there was there was another dispute and some concern on the same day that the obama administration announced new sanctions against russia for their meddling in the 2016 election that the incoming national security adviser michael flynn was on the phone multipal times with the russian ambassador of the united states. can you say there was no promises, no winks, no anything that somehow there was an acknowledgment that these sanctions will go away as quickly as possible once the inauguration takes place? >> so, chuck, almost every single day, general flynn talks to counter parts and ambassadors from around the world. that's his job. so one of his jobs is to be in constant communication with his counter parts and security issues all over -- all over the world. the tick tok on this is that on christmas, the two of them texted each other merry christmas. a couple days later this ambassador texted general flin he wanted to talk and the next day they had a conversation that happened to be that same day. but i have talked to general flynn. none of that came up, the subject matter of sanctions or the actions taken by the obama administration did not come up with the conversation. n in fact, it was the sports team that was in an unfortunate plane accident. they talked about setting up a phone call after inauguration and they also talked about a conference in syria or conference in regard isis and syria. so those were the only subjects that came up. but there is no controversy in general flynn talking to his counter parts around the world. >> there was no challenge? >> none. >> there is a new report out this morning from esquire magazine that includes some quotes both from the incoming press secretary but some anonymous quotes that indicate it is your intent to remove the white house press core from the white house. is that true? >> well, look. first of all -- let me explain. well, no, because the white house obviously is 18 acres, right, chuck? so the technical answer is no. we saw the news conference the other day. and i have to quarrel with you. i don't think it was a bizarre news conference. i don't think it is a fair characterization. but there was 500 to 600 reporters at that news conference. what i'm talking about and what we're talking about and the other thing that was discussed about this is whether or not you want to take that room that only holds 50 people in that very small plus room, which it looks big on tv, but it is very tiny and whether you want to go 50 feet to the eob and have for the first few weeks or the first month or so the press conferences where you could fit three to four times the amount of time. it is about more access. >> it is not about the office space or any of that business? >> this is about quadrupling the amount of reporters that could cover our press conferences. >> but there will still be reporters every day going to work in the white house? >> well, that hasn't been determined, chuck. but as of now, the only thing and the only thing that created this story -- i just want to make it very clear -- was the question of whether or not the press briefings, at least initially are going to be in the eob. >> is this about press briefings or kicking the press out of the building altogether? >> this is about press briefings. that's what created this story. >> okay. all right. reince priebus. i will leave it there. so the press will still be going to work every day in the white house. >> how about a little go pack, go! >> there will be a lot of that all day today, sir. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. >> all right. so much to get to in today's broadcast, including the decision by the inspector general to investigate how the fbi handles i investigation of hillary clinton's e-mas. and concerns over the relationship between the trump team and vladimir putin's russia. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up thinking up living up. it's being in motion... in body in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition. it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it. hi! hey! i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. same here. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double. my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry, through dna i found out that i was only 16% italian. he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. th is my ancestor who i dn't know about. he looks a little bit like me, yes. ancestry hasany paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com . welcome back and welcome our panel. welcome. jeffrey, let me start with you. this was already a tumultuous week gng to the inauguration and then john lewis versus donald trump. thoughts? >> it is this monday through saturday thing. i'm wondering, of course, if this is what the next four years are going to be like every day. the thoughts i have about lewis is an operative one. the first thought is rex tillerson or jim maddis going to need special people to monitor trump's twitter feed. it's interesting as an operational issue. i'm curious as to how he's going to use this tool going forward because he is about to become president and he is so easily trolled. when he becomes president, if someone starts trolling him, how he is going to react? >> look, we put together, this is just i am going to scroll the list here. this is just the entities and individuals he's gone after since he won the presidency, rich. and it is a long list. john lewis is now at -- you throw on there. it was check jones at one point. you had a steel worker guy, gm. most of them have been democr s democrats. lots of members of the media, present company included. at what point is this a problem for him? >> i think everyone needs to get used to this. this is the new abnormal. and trump is going to -- he finds this very effective and emotionally gratifying for him. his supporters love it when he tramples on politics, which with you don't hit that card against john lewis. on lewis's statement, i really see it as working through stages of grief. you know, all this russia stuff, at least a lot of it, was litigated during te election. hillary clinton lost anyway. and my guess is democrats, when they actually get traction against donald trump, it will be by acting as a normal opposition opposing a normal republican who wants to cut taxes for the rich. >> you're down playing the russian angle a little? >> i think everyone we have learned since the election could have been known prior to the election and the result very likely would have been the same. think most of the wick kkileaks stuff was gossipy. but koemy had much of a political effect. and whatever else you think of, he is an american official. >> and he is a whole separate topic. daniel, who are you on this? >> well, i'll say something about john lewis that maybe hasn't been said. you know, truly a great american. and i think we could all agree about that. but what the russians want is not so much donald trump. okay? what the russians want is for there to be question about the legacy of everything that happens in america. this is their operative stance. that's what we see in the uk, in france. that's what we see in germany. that's what we see them doing everywhere. when congressman lewis says he doesn't believe in the results of the american election, which i think we all can agree were legitimate, what he does is he sews that distrust that actually helps the russians. that's a shame. i don't think he means to help them anymore than i think half the people who did meant to help them. but it does. and it's not the way we should pursue it. >> i think there are people who feel trapped by all this because i think there are people that share daniel's sentiment here, that that's exactly what russia ones. >> i think that's certainly true. and i think that if you're john lewis, there is a way to go about doing this and that's in the measured way that he did with you. i think the far bigger issue against john lewis is not president-elect of the united states, donald trump is. and donald trump is about to become president. and as president, there is a way to respond and there is a way not to respond. there is a way to say i disagree with john lewis without calling atlanta a crime infest eed hell hole. there is a way to disagree with someone as you saw reince priebus just do without going on a twitter tantrum. and that's what you do not expectrom a commander in chief. now we're now five days out from donald trump taking control of the greatest country on earth. the idea that the president of the united states is going to be having tantrums on twitter whenever somebody gets under his skin is frightening to a lot of people. >> i don't think he is going to change. >> new abnormal, that is going to be the quote of the panel here. >> the new a b normal. i don't think he's going to change. people at my age don't change. and also it works. it works. i mean, it satisfies -- >> it satisfies the base. it got him to the dance. >> the irony here is if donald trump says nothing, tweets nothing, this is a debate inside the democratic party about whether to use the l word or not. and instead it united the democratic party and now you have some republicans uncomfortable with his tone against john lewis. >> fair enough. but i think rich is right. this is what works for donald trump. this is who he is. so a large extent, we need to all think ant how it is that the rest of the body of politic and washington reacts to this. if we all stand up and start screaming every time he drops a tweet, we're going to be very, very, very tired. at the end of the year. we need to recognize that first of all, not every twe is policy. okay? beuse this is the constitutional govnment of our country. >> i'm sorry. but when the president of united states says something, it is automatically news. we can't ignore his tweets. >> i'm not telling you to ignore them. i'm telling you not to edge toward the cliff every time you read one. that's what i mean. it's not always an object of hysteria. and it isn't going to necessarily be the policy of the united states. plus, we have a congress. we have a constitution and he has a cabinet. >> it sounds as if you are saying this is the responsibility of the united states to act as the adult, while the president acts like a child. >> first of all, i don't want to say that he acts like a child. i say that this is who he is and he was elected being who he is. it's not what i would do, but i wasn't running. and if we are going to manage how he assess the government and how he governs, we need to actually be -- >> this is very abnormal. >> okay. >> that is a very abnormal way of looking at how the world should be organized. >> but that's what the american people chose. >> i am going to pause the conversation. i promise you it is a pause. i will hit play on a little bit. but coming up i will speak to senator dianne feinstein. she is on the intel committee that will formally investigate the potential russian interference in the election. and later more of my interview with congressman john lewis and his feelings about donald trump. >> can you imagine every sharing a conversation with him? 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[ door closes ] she's actually pretty nice. oh. yeah. and they're absolutely right. they say that it's hot... when really, it's scorching. and while some may say the desert is desolate... we prefer secluded. what is the desert? it's absolutely what you need right now. absolutely scottsdale. . welcome back. the senator select committee on intelligence announced on friday it will construct a bipartisan investigation into russia's efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election. senator dianne feinstein knows as much as anyone about the intel committee. she's the former chair and vice chair of the committee. she joins me now. welcome back. >> thank you, chuck. >> before i get to the investigation, i've got to ask you about what john lewis said and about donald trump's response and just get your response. >> well, i understand why john lewis feels the way he does. this is a very fearful and divided nation right now. and the trumps have not done anything to bring it together. i really regret the president-elect's response to what john lewis said. it's without understanding of his history of what he went through, of the fact that this is martin luther king weekend and there is so much fear in this country. i come from the biggest state. i get tens of thousands of phone calls and e-mails of people that are fearful of what's going to happen. it's the job of this new president to reassure people that he is not just the president of his base, but he is the president of everyone, and that means a coming together. now -- >> reince priebus said he thought president obama should play a role in healing more. what did you make of that statement? >> president obama has played a role for eight years in doing just that. we're talking about the next period of four years. and the mantha's goi that's goid that needs to step up and realize he represents the whole country and he represents people of all different races and creeds who are looking for opportunity, hope and for the values tt this country carries high. >> let me go to the investigation. you have seen the unclassified verses of this intel report. do you have any doubt in your mind that russia tried to interfere in the election and then, second, do you believe it altered the outcome? >> the answer is yes on both cases. >> you truly -- you believe? >> that's what i believe. i've had all of the major classified briefings. i have been astonished at what has been a two-year effort at russia to spear fish, to hack, to provide disinformation, propaganda wherever it really could. and i think this has been a very sophisticated effort. i think in our classified sessions, we will be able to get down to the depth and breadth of it. i hope so. i spoke yesterday twice with senator warner, who is our new vice chairman and he reviewed with me the terms of this agreement. this investigation has to be full and robust. if it isn't, both of us will go toward an outside panel. but we cannot ignore what has happened. to ignore it is really to commit ourselves to a very bad future. >> what is the scope? i'll be honest. i read it and it comes across as an investigation into the investigation, an investigation into the intel community's assessment. is the intel community going to do its own investigation and maybe, you know -- >>. it is review of the intelligence that informed the declsified report about russia's interference in the election. now, last night i read this declassified report. the declassified report is pretty certain about what russia did. there is some particulars which are classified which are not part of it. but it's pretty clear that the hacking was in both political parties. but with the aim of hurting. >> right. >> hillary clinton. and then if hillary clinton were to win, the aim clearly was to weaken her. >> are you investigating -- but is there a new aspect? are you investigating the specific allegations of whether or not there was trump -- any member of the trump campaign was somehow in contact with russia officials? >> well, that hasn't been discussed. and i really can't answer that question right now. i can say that it should be full and robust with respect to who gave the order to do this, who participated in it, exactly what they did and how they carried it out and what it portends for the future. that's my view of what the intelligence committee should do. >> do you truly believe, though, it is going to be a thorough enough investigation that will get to the bottom of it as far as the american public is concerned? >> we'll see. i know that we have to. if we can't this way, we will another way. but, look, i'm certainly not going to leave this in limbo because this is the future of america, it is the future of democracy. and if we can't carry out an election without disinformation being pumped into it by another country, we have a huge destruction of our system going on. so we have to be full and robust in this look. and i trust that we are. i have worked with chairman burr for a long time. and i believe that this can happen. if it doesn't, we will sing outloud and clear. >> let me buttonhole something, though. you said you believe that russia's interference altered the outcome of the election? >> i do. it's a combination of a couple of things. i think that and i think the fbi in the october surprise, i call it an october surprise, o announcing a subsequent investigation, did have an impact. and i believe the clinton people believe it did, too. they were polling and they were up and all of that diminished. >> you brought up james comey. is he still fit to serve as director of fbi in your opinion? >> i think that's a decision to come when everybody learns much more about what drove this. i think the inspector general's report is critical in this because there are rumors of all kinds of conflicts within the fbi that focussed on the director. the director, i think was torn. i think he did what he thought was right. in my view, it turned out very much not to be right because the fbi doesn't announce -- >> you're not ready to say he should be fired yet. >> not yet. >> by the way, quite a week. confirmation hearings, new pacemaker and right back here healthy as ever. when we come back, investigating the investigation as we were just talking about. the justice department is now looking into how the fbi handled the hillary clinton issue. getting your quarter back. fountains don't earn interest, david. you know i work at ally. i was being romantic. you know what i find romantic? a robust annual percentage yield that's what i find romantic. this is literally throwing your money away. i think it's over there. that way? 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'98 that's the one. you got it! nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. ally. do it right. let's get out of that water. ally. do it right. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. the panel is back. we ended there on james comey. wow. james comey might be in rougher shape than any non-elected official in washington. >> it is incredible. i mean, he's had quite a week when you look at the beginning of t week and they came out with the russia dossile and there was questions about what is comey's motivation. it is amazing to me to see what the different iterations, one minute he's, you know, he's viewed as having -- or hurt hillary clinton and the next minute he's hurting donald trump. it is going to be very interesting to see how he emerges from this and now trump ends up viewing him when he becomes president. >> on the day wall street journal comes out and says comey should resign. >> yeah. >> it is -- he has no confidence from either party. that is not a good place for the director of the fbi to be. >> if they are investigating whether he violated guidelines, we could all save a lot of time and money. yes, he did. but the democratic party violated a very important norm. they nominated a candidate under fbi investigation. that it was going to stress the system in all sorts of ways. comey never should have said anything about this publically. but i cut him some slack because as soon as loretta lynch has that meeting with bill clinton, he feels he needs to explain his decision. once you get outside the guidelines, once you start explaining and talking, there is not a good place to stop. >> i don't know how he survived this and i don't know how you get a new fbi director confirm in this atmosphere. >> i would note he's a united, not a divider. he's brought republicans and democrats together. i would note being under investigation is not equivalent to being found guilty. so i don't want to suggestion that people who will under fbi investigation -- you and i both know, that means somebody said something anonymously to the fbi and they're looking into it. we don't want to have a standard where anybody under investigation by any body can no longer run for office. >> once you do that, the fbi director is going to be in a really tough position. and bad things might happen, and they did. and now democrats turn around and say these terrible things happened to hillary. isn't it awful? it is what she did and their decision to nominate her any way. >> let me go to the meat of what happened, and it was three republicans that set the tenor of some of these confirmation hearings. maddis's confirmation hearing had nothing to do with maddis. where is this headed? is there going to be a show down of sanctions that will divide the senator republicans. >> i have watched more of these hearings than probably most people. and the notion that a nominee would disagree with the -- with the president-elect is basically par for the course. >> sure. >> especially when you have a president-elect who speaks in the way that donald trump does. you cannot expect that the nominees are ever going to echo his style of rhetoric, let alone the exact words he says. so i didn't feel that was so disgnadi disgnat. i think how much is actually going to be policy? because once they're confirmed, guess what, donald trump is the boss. not john mccain, not marco rubio. >> is there going to be a show down. >> i think absolutely. >> there is going to be a new sanctions bill. congress wants to pass one. there is a majority to pass a sanctions bill against russia and put it on his desk as a test. >> i think tre is going to be a show down between president trump and the senator. there is also going to be show downs between president trump and his cabinet -- and his cabinet. i mean, i was trustruck, and i t of disagree with you, danielle, i was struck with the level of distance between maddis and tillerson about nato, europe and iran. there was a level of distance that i have not seen in confirmation hearings in the past. >> you forget that hillary clinton was nominated to be secretary of state for a president whose policies she called ni eed naive and wrong. >> the relationship between the u.s. and its tradition of -- it's not about the relationship between america's traditional adversary. this is maybe the most interesting fight in washington, the fight inside the republican party. >> another pause here. when we come back, more of my interview with congressman john lewis. >> what happened? 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donald trump said i want forgiveness here. i want your trust or i want your, you know -- would you take him to selma? >> well, by going to selma, like president bush, president clinton, president obama, maybe he would learn something. maybe he would get religion. >> so you would bring him? you would do that for him if he asked? >> i would not invite h to come. >> you wouldn't invite him. but if he asked to come, would you let him. >> i wouldn't try to do anything to prevent him from coming. >> we're going from the first african-american president, a breakthrough. at the same time we've just elected a president that you say is an illegitimate president. what does that say for race relations for the country. >> i'll say that we made a lot of progress, but we're not there yet. when the president spoke a few days ago, he said we're not a post gracious society. and some people said that. some people believed that when you were first elected. but we're not there yet. the scars and stains of race is still deeply embedded in american society. we have to continue to do all we can to move us closer to what dr. martin luther king jr. called the society. lay down the burden of hate, separation. >> if he's not a legitimately elected president in your mind, there are tools that congress has. do you think congress should use those tools. are you one of those that believe the impeachment process should begi >> i truly believe we should find out what happened and how it happened >> john mccain wants a special committee, select committee. >> i agree with senator mccain. i think we should have a special commission to get to the bottom of what happened, what role did the russians play in terming the leader of our country. when you have someone that's been elected who said of the president or the leader of russia is stronger or better than our own president. >> that's just something you can't forget? >> i will never forget. >> this is the weekend we commemorate dr. king. what would he say about this moment? >> he would say to all of us to never give up, never become bitter, be hopeful, be optimistic and keep pushing. >> you can see the entire interview on "meet the press" on line. you can view the "meet the press" podcast. we did one on russia. and our library also includes conversations with the likes of maureen dow. you can find us on apple. we'll be back in 45 seconds. and kind of a unique thing that president obama said. >> coming up "meet the press" end game, brought to you by boeing. also working to build something better. whatever you're making. cheesy chipotle pork quesadillas? mmmm... ravioli lasagna bake? yeah, i don't know... grilled white chicken... grab something rich, sharp and creamy. triple cheddar stuffed sliders. sold! aim to cheese! kraft natural cheese: we make cheese for how you love cheese. mom,on my car insurance of money by switching to geico. i should take a closer look at geico... you know, geico can help you save money on your homeowners insurance too? great! geico can help insure our mountain chalet! how long have we been sawing this log? um, one hundred and fourteen years. man i thought my arm would be a lot more jacked by now. i'm not even sure this is real wood. there's no butter in this churn. do my tris look okay? take a closer look at geico. great savings. and a whole lot more. will your business be ready when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. sglrchl "meet the press" end game brought to you by boeing. >> sort of lost this week was president obama's farewell address. the guts of the speech, rich, seemed to be -- i don't know if you want to call it defense of democracy, but a warning, hey, democracy is fra gigile. what did you think of that? >> back in word war 2, there was a broad consensus in our politics. but in the broad sweep of american history, that's usually not the way it's worked. you go back to the beginning of parson politics, the federalist thought that jeff syrians were tools of the french and tools of the monarchy and even lately they thought president bush was selected, not elected. republicans tried to get bill clinton out of the gate. so democracy very often is messy, contention, and that's the way it should be. >> so that's an interesting take. do you buy that? the post-world war ii period was anoutlier? >> i didn't think that until this past 12 months, but i'm wondering if that's the case. i think a lot of things that we thought were on the table about the nature of our politics, i think those things have been put up for question in a way. i think president obama was making that case, that we can't take these things were granted. it was also, by the way, a thought an admission that he had failed to achieve what he hoped to achieve, which is to change the politics and not red america, blue america, but one united america. i just felt there was a through line. >> it was emotional speech for him. i was really struck afterwards by the sort of the response from people, both in the crowd in chicago. but also on social media, all over the place. you see people now changing their profile pictures on twitter and facebook to the obama family, and that sort of thing. it's been -- i thought his speech was probably one of his -- his better ones. and this is somebody who has made that an art. an art form over eight years and i thought, you know, yeah, democracy is pretty fragile, but it's also always been messy. >> the irony in farewell address is people talk about the influential ones and the irony is we didn't heed any warning. we talked about it, but we didn't heed it. >> but the american people as a nation are so profoundly sentimental. i really -- i felt my heart warmed when he talked about his wife and kids. >> and joe biden. his deep love of joe biden. that was lovely, but let's not forget one of the reasons our nation is so divided is because of the legacy of barack obama, one of the reasons we no longer lead the world is because of barack obama. >> that's a tough charge, and i am running up against the clock. we'll leave it there. the debate will continue, i'm sure. all this week lester holt is going to take nbc "nightly news" about america, talking to americans about the state of the nation. that's all we have for today. we'll be back next week because of inauguration weekend. hopefully, we've got another packer game to worry about. let's beat them cowboys! >> go to "meet the press" facebook page. good sunday to you. welcome to the pulse of america right here on msnbc where your voice can be heard in real-time. here are the stories we'd like to get your pulse on on this day. top trump administration officials fire back today at congressman john lewis for questioning the legacy of trump's presidency. did lewis go too far? we'll ask you that. plus the upcoming transfer of
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